This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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its nearest eleven and new accounts will receive thirty percent off any package that charter stock dot com for thirty percent of new accounts is Africa noticed eleven Are we doing some stand upon the road in December, six of seven thirteenth, thirteen Minneapolis Chicago and Seattle, so go to notice that conflict calendar for in We met my guy Mad Actually, we needed a beggar, the worst part about it was like. I was like what would be like. I were to be the guy that try to do a, Madam president. Even then did a really bad job. At ten seconds of where you didn't, you made this basic you're trying to start this basically like. What's he doing and those that are met merit and it wasn't like it's, not the joke- that idea
Isn't to make what about my hour. It was the make fun of a guy trying to just be mean for poor little rhubarb. Now it's no! That theory get your taken the wrong way. It was a bad guy, he's gonna be taking at the wrong. Tell about I tell everything it was stupid face. I just like the idea that a guy like it out just is mean when the persons on around I just never will. I look like if I may, that is that this summer, hustle intro has been controversial, because this episode is for stone, I was very new. About the Oliver Stone episode, because he's a guy, that is essentially a machine of names and dates and events and- and I have you- know, I have no, I am not a historian, so I have no recourse to be like. No. That was not in fact, the Warren Commission, and so I was very nervous because
I would imagine that he probably expect this one was. Why feel like much more of an interview? We normally these these these podcast cats. More like conversations and now a liking for your phone conversation. And but but this I felt like was more interviewed because he You know he had a lot to say that the told his reading. I'd say it's is the document is top. Our document issue is that you did that he did. That saw no show time and its on Amazon and I tunes and then the the J F K fifty year commemorative implementing the fifty years since these essential, the ultimate Blu Ray edition of J F K is out to execute this really cool. They sent me one. I gave it to me my rock ass. He drew he'd like all I saw rule when he was like? How did you get one of those? Can I get it? in that area, go I've got a lot of like stuff in it. So this was a very Thank God cares for me because I tend to stay away from politics on the podcast, because I sort of feel like
I'm you know, I'm not a historian and I'm not I'm not a hard core political comedian at all. Not even a soft core political comedian but you know I like everything: unapplied casts a sort of veal uplifting and I, like the plug cast, a sort of you know make people feel unified. And I feel like politics divides people, so This is essentially like ass for me, because I think you'll find that I'm not a detour. Rising on anything, I'm essentially just asking questions and listening. So this was This was relatively relatively unique in that way. Whether you agree everything the guy says or not like. He definitely- a smart guy. I know Joe with great. You definitely does. Did you watch the votes and I've watched three. The episodes of untold has started feel bad Could I ask and the joke I did earlier. I think we should just cut it out. Nominal evident now. No, I played into a tooth
there was a second shooter. There was no mean Nerdist dot com however, something for being here about just now. She agrees one trade would ever say those words out loud Oliver stone. Thank you for being on the Prague well, I'm on, but I pay attention. I go. It's like a. Digital radio Wonderland sounds good and I said before actually made notes and I never make notes for people.
But indication organizing Principle bond your society? There is a little bit and organizing principle. I haven't figured out what that is yet to what my motivations hour, but I just don't want only like. I don't look like a fucking idiot. You know what the organizing principle of our society does, whatever their societies war. I guess that is. That is a huge part of it. There is no war here, you and I are he's we're different kinds of people. We exist as french people inside this state. Yes, a writ where those types of cogs in that way say Monica come in your home, a note in the window. I can't see that our way algae have monitored, as you have said, you wouldn't it make sure Kyle is getting out? Mr sounds decaf coffee Monica come in here with pleasure
she should join the claims that you really should actually cause she's. Actually, marine reserves, she's marine resources thing I like her and happy veterans Day to Roma. Thank you kindly service into our country. Thank you. I am sure a lot of people know, but you receive the bronze star in the purple, hearts for your service and yell, and I have to say that its lead me to men on too many fields of thought. Well, you know I dont know. If people know that you you turn you spent what a year at Yale. You went to jail for a year and then you dropped out to go teach school and in south alas, yes, I would yes Estralla what year for the first freshman year and Two were dropped out, just stayed in Vietnam for the whole year practically and taught in school, and of enshrining mathematics history to a high school students in July We joined the merchant marine. I became a wiper because of you.
Join the mercenary was a unionized activity, but you could join the broad and replace a seaman that was missing and somewhere out there so failed around in the and then I a bet came back the states it was an extraordinary voyage. Northern prick If we can join in northern living in winter, it was amazing back to Oregon coups bay. Gone from Saigon. So I mean articles guide on a trip. Oh you did what the ship was coming back. Let all ships used to go to Vietnam worth taking a heavy heavy, goods to Vietnam food Supplies- P, Exe LE vision set cars we were building up. Vegas is invalid in Vietnam and they will all come back. Like a lot of them. We come back when nothing so weird abolished in the ship. We hit the store
So the northern Pacific, which are extraordinary by the way, something to be seen to be believed- and I remember the ship was an old liberty wish- was pitching like forty four degrees. One night, we went over forty four degrees of forty five degrees till this body you go over. We almost capsized own Allah dishes were broken on. Never forget the fear that night and she in the water coming through my porthole practically? And but you are you ve ever first, and that is the next you're, like all we got there. Thou alone are known, or this for me is- was like Lord Jim kind of experience, because all these guys in Amerika we were rugged guys veterans but strange people. They all had strange lives and had been in Africa the romance wrong in Latin America. They had wives and in the states, many of them, but they never seen have lasting marriages. Families they were all there is. All see you always a bit about the sea, but but you'd always come back eventually, always that they always had that law. But you returned to the sea so many
You know we're lonely man in a sense, but always interesting to talk to eccentric storage. Suddenly, Tommy, there were CIA agents in Korea, bad amazing and you know the half of it. True public have less true such of ITALY, with where The Kennedy assassination for all I know- and you don't know, Sometimes you were that way. You know I'm saying it with this: you never know of the jails are quite true. Does the sea forgive all like to people? Is it a good place for people to go to escape what's going on land. Well, it translates where people problems go to. It only realise it's not a stable existence. Now they have container ships, of course, and they use mostly foreign crews, but it wasn't experiences. Young man to go through that I love the ocean. I love sailing and I was a wiper which is the lowest job on the ship. I mean I have to clean all the engine room, all the toilets. It was a rough job too cuz. I have boiling oil fall on me too part of the parts that I had to blow this
though the tubes it. I don't know anyone your audience going, their young people- and I don't know what that means blowing the tubes is when you blow when you have to clean out the every day there are a lot of my generation doesn't know how to do things, whether if there is an apocalypse, a lot of us are completely fox because we know how to work computers but will manage computerized. Now now it's all computerized, but so what did it feel like a pull the political climate at the time? essentially so much of society was clashing with what was going on politically. Did you feel particularly charged by the energy and is that is that why you wanted to go teach in South Vietnam or what was it that? What what did you feel at the time? All I know is what I didn't like. I knew that I did not belong with the Yale crowd, I'd gone there or so from healing from boarding school, and I was in George Bush's. Ass a year, he was a class of sixty eight and I just knew I didn't belong. I didn't fit right fit in short to find my way in the world, and I I'd read a lot of a kind
at an Hemingway and stuff like that, and I believed- and I guess the mail- the male thing about finding yourself proving yourself. I went out there to do that and the came back and I went back to Yale for half a semester wrote a book for I dropped out and I was writing a book about my adventures, which became a child I dream, which is published and ninety nine Five eventually by Saint Martin breasts in the end, there there's an interesting chapter on the merchant marine, but to basically went back jail and dropped out again and wrote, and road and wrote when that book was rejected and nineteen early sixties Seven. I went back into the I volunteered for the draft and I went back to Vietnam because it- and I think to get one step further and go to the bottom of the barrel, so to speak and see if I would come out alive on the other side, so does she wore a right. I got me Philip and arrived in September, sixty seven after forge actions Well then, I was in the infantry for fifteen months. Did you was your desire
see war as a soldier to see me or as an artist as well to see what it I guess. I had an artificially peppermint. Yes, I guess and artists endeavour and I wanted to sheep experts work. I had been influenced, as I said, my Hemingway's, for whom the Bell tolls by an end, yet these images and you Eddie, they become locked in your brain and you wanna. Ass. Every young man to surgery, withered football sports once approved, he's a man and say what happened over there was I never. I came back from the warmer You feel alienated, very numbed out drugged out too, and I took me a while to get back into society took me about a year to fit to start to get socialized to talk to people in a normal way. Again I just didn't have then that capacity We ended up, thank God it and why you folks go under the g I bill and I was able to put my integrate my life back Other withdrew, were making short films. I mean it was stumbling first
We found my way in after film school. I graduated to be a cab driver, a messenger, various jobs, all kinds of work in New York City typing pools, God almighty. I was an assistant assistant on a porno film, everything anything to work and it works scripts all the time and kept writing scripts, and eventually I got lucky. Nineteen, seventy nine. I was a bit breakthrough year when midnight express not express no longer. I went from zero due to the two to the heights right away. When can we award to suffer a good for you because you not used to it? And Then I went down again and again and Danny and it's my career has been up and down. Do you feel like that anything you learnt in the military? The time you spent overseas? Did it you any values that it teach you. Any skill set that you were able to sort of transform. As a g, I know you don't have any skill sets except how to how to handle yourself in combat, which is a rare experience on domestic front, but I think you do have
Hence over an x, Various discipline sense of a group and you see the world perhaps more clearly because come and infantry and the war itself military is a huge machine and it waited grinds up. Men crimes up money, and is a tremendous amount of waste in war. I hope you realize how much serious and things get done. Very cruel and unusual, and I I think, because experience unable to see things in government life that are excessive and cruel, unusual and unnecessary, and whenever it Go back to wars. I think I'm able to see through the talk, because it's over the chicken Hawksley the backdoor patron You know the guys you're always out thereon Memorial day. You know yelling about how great this country is. Who are the worst people who say
the greatest country in the world. They are there not paying attention, and then you see it everywhere. This drew now. You see more and more false patriotism. It's disgusting to me, I think so. Refugee scoundrels, they used to say. So what is what is? What do you believe? True? Patriotism is love of country, love of country. I should make your country a better place to try to help to when you see things at a wrong to criticise and to try to fix, not to pay them with more money and more sugar like they used to do in the military. While I think I'm I watched party or so is the untold history, the United States, I, what Kitticut Yossi were I think this a coffee clash in you don't have any plan, has a beard gravity the bearded down and punishment of peoples. You are seriously is bullshit anyway, we talk here is Kyle's. Here we haven't talked about movies God we're gonna talk about your movies rynason. What are wasting time wasting time talking about the main yeah, we're gonna die in the movies well in autonomy,
the guy. You know Kyle's Kyle's, just taken notes, Kalsaken, those other provocateur Kyle. It's like a muffin he's got these got to get online again here we are talking about military. She could you so make useful, and I watched what's a J F K, episode of the untold history and what I found Interesting was seeing your portrayed. In the documentary of Christophe and Kennedy, as Then I hadn't really seen before, though. Admittedly I have not watched every documentary, but the idea that when they were faced with war, that they both changed and went wait a minute. Maybe this is about the other Monica. I think you think he wants you to come sit over here, one of them. In the Marine corps, respect, and so you wanted to you wanna get really you made the cream reads: you survive,
even the american renders she's korean, but she's an agreement reigns in which suffer the intense came with a couple of why so your Monica has to go overseas and- and she disappears for like a month ago, ago? Haven't those who go to twice a year alone, but all into one? It's it's a particular reserve cycle Korea locrians only rose the roughest in Vietnam, they hated by the vietnamese crusade, messed with appointment, really yet very cruel, but we're going back to Khrushchev in Kennedy. For a moment there was an extra moment the nuclear crisis of October sixty two the world was really at the edge because we didn't know the that the Russians had forty thousand too troops there led by the commander celebre commander of that for that great ballot or war too? They had a hundred nuclear web battlefield weapons, which is what we did
The Cubans had more men than we thought they did. They were return, fifty thousand well armed men. They had a different styles This also even knew of we knew part of what they had. So the gun in their thinking, we're gonna take twenty thousand casualties, but back then, years later, when he found out what the Russians really has it would have taken a hundred thousand casualties and it would have been like with the within paranoia those times and the joint Chiefs wanted a war with this obvious, because I knew that they could lick the soviets we had it we tend to one apparent and much stronger than the Soviet. At that time they knew that we could take out the Soviet you one thousand nine hundred and sixty and get away with it without significant retaliation. That was the basis of the movie that strange love the Cooper did. You know they talked about what the retaliation factors people do you lose bigger and the joint chiefs were saying you know if we wait to Serbia's you're gonna build up and are going to achieve parity, which I did my the nineteen seventies, almost parity ray
and then made it worse than it was. He talked about another big gap and he got into office. One thousand nine hundred and eighty on that be but really there was a significant moment history when we're ready war again, we waited since nineteen. Forty five remember: we drop tube to atomic bombs on Japan. We didn't need to. We did it with very barbaric act, we can go back talk about that, but we had were ready to use nooks. We built up with I with Eisenhower to thirty thousand nuclear weapons. Thirty thousand nuclear weapon we don't even it. We have about seven thousand now, with thirty thousand, when you build that machine where you want to go. You know it's like you build a bomb. You want to drop it. You want to see if it works. You know I'm saying there was a kind of feeling in the air by one thousand nine hundred and sixty that we're going to have crisis after crisis with the Soviet you There was therefore Moser whether it was so as to weather. People in again. Cuz Berlin have been a significant crisis points by one thousand nine hundred and sixty two, this with Cuba. Ninety miles off our shores, we hit that point where red
that's what Kennedy was facing? The hardliners wanted him to to drop those weapons wanted to invade and enforced. And we were on the edge on trigger true we're on DEFCON to four but twenty days, whatever it was DEFCON to which was not declared by catch declared by the AIR Force General who didn't Amazon, because under Eisenhower's policy command the right to vote, but do nuclear postures on their own accord, so that there was a Guy named Thomas Power was in charge the air force. He went to DEFCON too, and we How did you know near accidents out there? Isn't a nuclear submarine, a russian nuclear summary with that one? Yes, that with that, I did not know about that. I did not know about. I wrote the guy's name down vastly Archipelago Yahkuk, puffy ice gray character, but it's a great story. Screech story. He stopped this thing there, the russian commander, with ready to fire because he'd been deaf charged.
And he was outside the quarantine line and he assumed that the war had broken out and he said with that. They knew they were so arrogant. There were basically fucked, they we're gonna die, so he said let this go out with some within fire off and she would a fire and Then it would be one thing after the other. Also there was another near miss with you. Are you too got shot down right over Cuba again taking photographs the. They went crazy on that when we had Okinawa, where we had nuclear bombers, we're ready to go with the aged I'm against China, because we're gonna make it not only Russia we will make a China to say was very serious. Kennedy was scared and the last second Emmy. He knew and Khrushchev knew their story to communicate then have a red phone. Those days. You think they could talk to each other. She had to go through to go between struggle between your crew
Kennedy knew that he could not control this situation at much longer than the hardliners would would would would win in the end that there would be some outbreak that the couldn't stop, who share the same thing. Khrushchev withdrew the missiles there was they made a deal and basically, from that moment on crucial Kennedy began to and by nineteen sixty three a year later, their site, in the limited test Ban Treaty, which is very interesting. That sets a first nuclear TEST Ban Treaty we ever have nuclear age for nineteen forty five on two significant moment clusters. Lot of other things go on, you know an opening to Cuba Kennedy in order not to withdraw, to withdraw the first thousand troops from from Vietnam by them Kennedys, never put combat aversion to Vietnam, although they tortured did the Pentagon wants combat advisers? They they want. Then on Vietnam is next target. They can't win in Cuba. Goddammit you're gonna make a point. They both
It's it's a very interesting story, because it's about militarism and american militarism and how it continues on after Vietnam, which is a disaster for us, we go on right after Vietnam and by the way we don't stop Start building up again and after Vietnam there was. It was kind of interesting. That's you know enough trail, a documentary that these these two world leaders essentially like you, said thawed and they kind of realise, like all the entire planets gonna, go up in flames. If we don't back off a little bit. Same time, risking looking weak as leaders for not going in and essentially obliterating gentleman, big thing: isn't it who chaperone famous Kennedy. Good can come out of this evil to beautiful lottery should read it. It's in the chapter and it's in the book to be dug. Kush off had been through Stalingrad, he'd been a political commissar. There in the nature of war, he saw how bad it was a soviet union which devastated by the war they both were mature,
Kennedy had been a war to eat dinner, peachy, hero, pity one: oh, nine type euro. He saved a man, drowning men drowning in here was. Is he had a backbone? He wasn't like You know it was a guy who could stand up to the military thought the generals were stupid is an after the bay of pigs, he fired dollars the head of the CIA, and he made comments about the joint chiefs. People were really from the stone age. You, people like kurdish limit on his airforce chief of staff, Arly Burke, solemnity these. People are not the brightest people they were geared for. They were war, two people were arrogant and they thought that they could take the Soviets and they pray could have. At that point, would have been a disaster for us. The world would protein. It wouldn't be the world we know today. How do you know
whenever the right Wingers in America would like it this way, I don't think you and I would be sitting here quite so civilized. How do you know when you're making a temper documentary serious this well in our document or series the untold history of United States? How do you know how do you, how do you get to as much of what you believe the truth to be as possible? How do you find out when you have you no DEC? pics of of of stories and hearsay, and how do you get to the nature? What you believe to be true, that's what age is about. That's what that's the only Atkins recommend about it getting older as you get wiser. I've been through so much of the tyranny of now details of the news, all the crises come and go I've been reading the newspaper since nineteen fifties and over time. I think you get a little bit more sagacious about things about me. This is not a crisis is perceived all the events. On a daily basis, is not whereas a pattern. What is going on underneath this? Don't by all
get the news you here all the time and I haven't, but you know in two thousand eight after two terms of George Bush, which was a nightmare for me as a veteran, Cuz we were back in the rock fighting a war that was unnecessary and I think Afghanistan was overdone the way we did it so that point Peter Kuznick is a historian American University. I've known him for twenty years. We can find our forces as a dramatist and it's a historian to write this book and make the series, and in those five years I really did you ever it was I taken going back to school and getting a masters or a phd in history. For me, I learned a lot I mean I I about various events like the canopy assassination Nixon administration. What I see and heard the bushes sure, but I'm say put it all together. Looking for pattern, we we become this country. Should it accelerates after war too, we become a national security, stay no question and we we hype the fear, we hope to fear and the people we we build
our budgets and by the time of a union, went away as a so called thread. Ninety ninety one did we stop? Do we change you go back now we kept going by one thousand nine hundred and ninety two. We were in a rock. We said five hundred thousand men to the Saudi Arabia, which was a huge mistake because we trumped up this threat from Hussein. Is the new Hitler and he invaded Kuwait and we made out of it like the beginning of world war? Two literally, if you go back to those he's in the pr- and we said thousand men there and that, of course, caused to hold this location again of our economy as well as of the Middle EAST, so went leads to another and what it when Al Qaeda attacks us in the two thousand and one one of you remember one of their reasons for attacking us. They stated it very clearly Troops in the Holy Land MECCA in Saudi Arabia. Those five thousand troops bothered. No head, as well as our relationship with Israel, so All these things are, they don't come out of nowhere. There always like this cause and effect, and that's what
informed on history. Looking for patterns cause effect cause effect. Why did see what people do these things? Now? I've read from what I've read and what I've seen from suffer mine when people sort of challenges be the year when they say oh you're, the conspiracy guy you're like norm, not I'm a storyteller storyteller and I'm trying to get to the truth and I'm trying to tell a story. What is it differently? my movies, let my movies. I have two dramatized of calamities, but I am very sorry To my research I try to do the best I can, but you make J of cable about the assassination you're gonna combined hell of a lot of material into three hours and as well as combined characters, but when I'm doing a documentary like untold history, United States, I'm a documentary, and in that regard I everything. In fact we did three facts. Are that show times
B S legal as well as our own faction. We had to rewrite so many things, because we know that some things you thinker, accurate or not. You have to check and double check so that untold history is documentary classic documentary. We have opinions in them, but you can see the difference between the opinion. In fact. So when we get to the Kennedy assassination, we don't talk about, because it's just there's so much you I mean. I think we can talk about that separately, but we can't pay right and everything has to be proven in a document. So we say here that we give you all the reasons. What's the difference between Kennedy and eyes in our and what a difference between Canada and Johnson and you can- you can figure out the pieces yourself if you got any brains there's a year difference it. When I grew up, they told us these media. They told us that Johnson, this, the continuation of Kennedy. That's not true, and that's the point we have to make and that's why we do at these
So we stay out of the assassination, but by tell me that to Dallas I think you can make up your own mind right about what's about, what's going on so see the movie and then see the sea chapter six, because it's a great chapters. One of my favorites are yet chapter six. That's when I watch that the Saudis right. Why do we say J they break because Alan John Fashion was the secretary of State in the eyes, and our administration was a very powerful man. He was almost the they called the jack hide Eisenhower was always the grandfather, type and Dulles was, is very, very hard core secretary of state and he believed in rolling back the Soviet Union. Rolling back, not just containment and eight part of that policy was what he called brinkmanship, which is his policy which is taking things to the brink and big. Why? Because we had the nuclear threat, we used to use a nuclear threat five or six times realising our administration like a gun to your head, make them give in so it was very dangerous what he did, because it brought
war, the world to the brink of destruction by nineteen? Sixty two literally eight dollars is responsible for this behaviour that we see in the yet in the joint Chiefs of Staff and the CIA and his brother, of course, Alan Dallas ran the sea. I ever had Carte Blanche for some ten years intervened in every third world country every third world country. Literally week we became an empire. Interventionist empire away. We lead coup De Tarzan, IRAN, your member nineteen, fifty four three and in Guatemala, fifty four wheel, We also tried to undermine the indonesian regime and nineteen. Fifty six, seven Maisie story. We did I did, but RCA pilots were shot down there that they were imprisoned was embarrassing. We were involved in Angola against and not an NGO in boats in Congo against Jerusalem number who was assassinated by the Belgians, but we tried to poison them. First, Emilio
No, but Anthea. Now me back the French we paid for ninety of eighty five percent of their war, and we await we had a lot to do with postponing the elections of nineteen fifty five, which would maybe have solved the issue in Vietnam. We did not want hokey men to win. We were bad guys all over the world. Now the rushes it bad things too. In Hungary and various countries in Czechoslovakia, but I'm saying during the fifties, if you look at these scorecard and keep track of what Tuesday way, what we come out as a heavy Do you prefer documentary nor dramatist? I would never do a documentary again that took a five year end it's hard to make. You know it's hard to make a living doing it's. There was a work of love, and it made me better. Refreshment gives me more strength But I really am a historic time like to go back into a drama yet so when you're. So when you sit down- and you know when you tackle summing up- J, F, K or or or next
and or w or covert like what is it that you? What is it that you want to take away to be? Do you want people to kind of make up their own minds, or do you think about that? That's what I'm going to show their. What's your message and I get you said you hold it up in a piece of cardboard. Now I mean to it so the process? I think that when I do around how big story I I walk you his shoes ass. I walked in the shoes of Dixon, which was an amazing experience because I didn't admiring Dixon. I disliked him, but at bite, but by damages doesn't take size. You walk in the shoes, the purse when I play. Why would I make a movie about W Bush, who I think was us more on the user, a dumb and with a limited vision? I know you, despite disagreements, Korea, there but I mean why would I make a movie about somebody I dont admire, because I and understand you understand, I put myself in his shoes and many people thought in me.
Making them to sympathetic if your member Josh Rollin was criticism, was somewhat criticised for being not been hard enough on Bush, so you can't win that's what I'd remedies? Does you you the store your time. So sometimes you do have a person like of Nixon or a bush, and sometimes you do it. A covert gore lately hastily Gluesome female the enemies, a peasant who managed in Heaven and earth to live on both sides of the war? I live and I learned, I learned, hung about life, a truce, I'd like I'm a visa natural born killers. U turn and savages ice. I love is one, although there are different times in my life, in its initial where's when arctic side or something I learned about myself by acting out. If I hadn't done those free movies, I dont think I would be the same person you think not forborne killers was prophetic in the sense that it is a sort of predicted like slow
media and end the and the idea of elevating this insane behaviour fur. People to consume, like, as I remember that, naturally, each film has its own origin and any me I kept a diary these years. I know I'd have to go back to read it, but I remember the natural born killers came out of it since discussed in nineteen- nineties early nineties after the J K thing, I've been so trashed by so much pressure, so much in tabloid and I This is madness. Coming on american society of television, with the Oj Simpson trials occasion point I mean it somewhere certainly sensational, but it was so much was made out of it. It distracted society for four people, not paying attention and more important things, and they became enamoured of this. And it became the news he drove like a bright ten,
in dollars cycle through television of advertising. You have to realise how much people invest in them in the capitalist system believes in sensationalism and violence as a means to an end to get money to create interest, spark something. So we made made a fortune off Oj Simpson as they made off every murder trial at that point. That was a bunch of trials. You never know woman cut off her husband's penis. It was then, Bobby things out of everything that was front, page news, you know, and I skater pushing I gave her. You know it gets silly in our society got very silly in the nineties and that's what natural born yours was about about two freaked out teenagers, who have a heart just answer. Your father is abusive, their mothers re passive and they may be they. They fall in love, gonna rampage because only knows violence, but we society around the measures even simpler than they are. Was she a prison warden we see a cop wish media. That's insane so it was after about our society, and it was misunderstood if you like, a lotta your character of these
the bigger the life characters that are in these this this world around them. It's utterly insane and even going back to like movies that you wrote, Scarface or Conan like dude feeling that there do. You see a similar pattern in all of these characters. In these starvation member I want my political instincts were not is develop back then cause. I was still figuring out my about a member scarface was very much. Dear, oh, he was a scumbag. He was again extra any was based on. The old film was that he was also an american immigrant who dreamed big dream which has a bearing on it, which is what money power and will insects. Those are the three things in it coordinates and although he had, he was awful to people, he never killed anybody without reason. In the movie, we show that kind of clearly that everyone he kills is basically a gangster and then it later in the movie, when it becomes insane
with paranoia no matter how disfigured he becomes with cocaine usage itself. It is unable to kill them. The child and the money and the wife of the diplomat, he's assigned to kill by cartel in the South, South America, the words he has some resident integrity feeling when his sister. Of course, you know the whole thing with his sister and his friend is also the part of that resident integrity that he has well, then, is. It then you as dramatists. Is that part of your is if you're not always yet, no matter how bad you are no matter how. Although it is regulation of yours, something human left in internal Montana, in my mind, night, indirect, a movie but brats. Where wrote it May I come in the barbarian was changed. Quite it is also quite a bit. It did described his fascinating and would have cost a lot more money and I think it would have ended up his twelve twelve parts. You have made produces a lot more money, but they they went the other way they short circuited. They had ended in two series into Philips right. So when you
the two, because I watch an interview online that you did with your son actually, and you were talking about how J K you said after ok. There was a. U essentially said there was a shitstorm and then you know people said you were crazy or people gave you shit and is a what what exactly happened and then when did it happen in that process? no o J K was. I mean I also got a lot of praise. You got a Oscar Novaya, I of course, and I want to refer for editing and for cinematography. You know the film was was significant and it led, The J F K Act, which was passed, which allowed for expansion on the records of the records and an investment get more records up until one thousand nine hundred and ninety eight. They did a pretty interesting job and it revealed of new stuff course. Some records are still being held. We found out too, but the point was that it did have. It did lead to some productive results and it won't people up again to what they felt outrage about that this was
crooked about this murder. I still maintain that there is very much so very crooked burner, but we can get into that another question, but my life changed with that movie because I was very hot off of if we try and protein in Austria and doors. In a sense we crossed the line as filmmakers didn't go into these arenas with such detail. We had done a lot of research. We have experts with us, forensic experts, photography, foot, photography, experts, ballistics experts, something we had good people working on. The field would be involved in the jail Kay, critical community for years, it wasn't like we went on its blind, but I didn't know that there was so much we had such a nerve until the second week of shooting, when the washing. Some a reporter down a Dealey plaza were shooting the assassination and there was a guy there and we didn't know who he was and next thing we know we pop up. In the Sunday pages of the washing
second week third week of shooting the vivisecting us with often all script, Eddied draft? I wish, I think, we're on our eastern ice draft. Any was working off the second round, so he was putting up all the things that we were wrong in the script before the movie had been seen. It does really unfair. We called post and we got into a war with them was a world away through. We was a war for getting our point of view across on paper, not just on Phil it's a war. You end up losing against the mainstream media news we can cover before we came out, saying, don't believe this film now that kind of war, so frustrating, and obviously I went on television for almost six months after the films released.
To defend my honour and defend the reputation of the film like I. My attitude is not just a filmmaker whose making just another movie no. This is this is I believe this. I believe this happened and I believe our country was robbed and I think Kennedy was killed by more than one gunman, and so you feel, like at the time and it's unfortunate that there wasn't the kid that you didn't have outlets like the social media outlets today, where you could reach out to people directly and go hey here's what I am you basically were if you were saying that the press was a you. Would you were having losing all approach, but some of the press, but you really raves repression? You are still having to use the main spear dream press to get your your opinion out, but it getting films, roadway itself? That's all I can say this film spoke Shove in many reviewers were kind. Do it Roger Ebert, whose a big reviewer said that their I dont know all the facts of the case.
But I know there's something right about it. He catches the mood catches, the atmosphere, there's something is inherently in it right about this movie, which is as good a compliment is you can get? but the. But you know too many. Other critics thought that they were experts only on a journey of cake issue. They should not have. I don't think they should again there because, for example, in your times, has always been very critical, very critical of any book or a commentary They won't even run a review generally of a book. This critical of the Warren Commission, so very strange story, goes on for years. So is Washington Post, but meanwhile the New York Times gave us a lousy review of that kind of thing. So, but people went it was like platoon, they couldn't stop. They were curious because there was heat. There was a heat about the film ok, so The film spoke for itself, and I still think it does, and I'm very proud of the film is nothing wrong in the film it's got a solid case, the shooting the evidence that the window, the the Philly Plaza,
just the garrison case. Although he had a week case, we showed that it was a week case on film. He admitted on film, so I wasn't We are building up garrison in to be something he was not. He had it. He was a brave man because he brought into the light of day the operations of a covert branch. The- U S, government that's what he was suggested and even to this day, you know as well as I do, even with all your media, the Julian US judges and the broadly Manning's India, and this notice there still out of luck in our Sadly, there still be under the Anti heroes. Right I mean they haven't. Proved a nurse in our society. These people's Snowden is stuck in other countries exiled these people can't do what what's garrison Dear Garrison, brought to trial, was vilified marginalize ridiculed. You went through hell, I knew the man, but just Snowden is going to the same thing, but maybe now, because he she
maybe you'll get your generation can understand what garrison went through its very hard to prove these things. When the government does snow had the documentation, thank God, but without the documentation he would have entreated, he would private arrested and he ran away before you'd be arrested right so we look back and watch F K which, by the way, the releasing in theatres against the fiftieth anniversary is- and I know that I think I have a date here- but I think on the seventeenth on the twentieth- Sunday showing in various cities here in the in El Aids, one week until next Friday and is from this week this week, I'm going to do a Tuesday. When I, at the issues around dome, ok and in New York kitchen, and one theatre in Washington in Georgetown, went theater and then in his on Sundays, two different sundays. I believe lemon. You said seventeenth and twenty four having something the twentieth. I believe it will be in a lot of different years, all round the country, but only on a one show to show basis. It is ruined
In fact, the movie? It is like a museum of F actor at the time we began a Blu ray, a new edition, fiftieth anniversary addition with chapter six in it with, though, with a lot of good new document fish, he went on. I feel about Kennedy made by Cliff Robertson in nineteen fifties. Awhile that come out it's coming out in November, coming out tomorrow about a time as possible, be yeah well already be out a minute. What have we learned in the last fifty years we learned anything. We closer other things that you thought when you may J F K that you, then you learn new information change your mind about. We know now, for example, the there the J, F K Act. Led to the you invented the assassination were wreckage review board and they took forming a dock forming pages of documents. For my patient, MR goes through. So there's a lot of detail stuff that one thing we know is. The CIA, for example, was very was watching, was very intimate with us.
From fifty nine sixty three in the Warren Commission. Said. The CIA had a routine and sporadic involvement with with Oswald, but we now know but there's more there and we know more about the people were involved with him those files by the way were not released in the nineties as as was requested by the such an issue records Review Board. They were not released so there's about eleven documents, efficient Morley. What used to work for the post and has now gone? Rogue has gone with his own blog JFK acts he has a J. F K acts, dot, Org, good organisation on paper on its website. Well, Rarely has through the night, She'll archives is found, something the visuals who we would like to know more about and has asked for it, but to use not gonna, get it from the CIA. These wouldn't James Angle, to news counter to counter the chief account or intelligence, so the CIA, James angles and very famous character. Richard Helms was-
pity director. He attacked our film Georgia Jack Georgia. Ninety suit Miami pour your bureau chief, David Philips, the Mexico City Bureau. Chief, very interesting figure comes up again. Again. Word. Hunt on a lower level and David morale is both of whom late near lives seem to implicate themselves in the assassination had told his son- he was there that day was involved and we have spent a lot of those the things we need to get the files on those people cause they're all around the case William Harvey's, another one waste on it.
Job in everyone's working on this from different angles. Of course, the big thing is there is the the autopsy that was a big as the biggest medical fraud of all that the top see the way worked out. The that were the case in our film is pre much. The case was still it holds up. Kennedy was shot from two sides: those because you have a shock to the neck from the front and you have a kill shop frame. Three thirteen of this uprooted film takes him at the right right Temple blows at the back of his skull witnesses all over the place at parkland added at the third to see this The cerebellum comes out is hardly any brain left in the autopsy photos. In the autopsy this presented. He still has a brain at ways as much as one he was as when you ve got shot, so it doesn't make any sense. What happened at the body disappeared, for, while there was the photographer who was there
Dave Shot, the photos does not recognize the photos that were presented by the autopsy. So we have this kind of weird stuff that happens because the body disappeared for a while, if there with washi point that you have to keep in mind is back into the left back into it. When you're in infantry. You take a shot at somebody. You saw the police chief in Vietnam who shot the goddamn it. I falls a certain way. You shoot somebody in that. It goes back into the left and we showed them the film it. Isn't it praetor film. That was done that day now you can argue- or you want, that you can go to the front this- that you came up with all them fancy arguments, but as an infantry soldier, will tell you the truth. It was you shoot a man. He goes the way of the shot. That's what Kennedy did he was shot from the front first shot in the throat and the fourth of the fifth shot up here, there's a shot in the back that hits him and a chef. Did his continent that indicate at least four bullets. Not three colony was not here the same time is Kennedy from the back she reaction in the film from Connally at the same time as Kennedy and theirs
so a shouted. The emission shouted goes to James T was hit at the underpass Yoda graze on his cheek, so does at least five shots Polly six, because some people believe the Collie was shot twice. Yet there was a magic bullet that the Warren Commission invented. The magic but the single bullet theory by all inspector. He was an evil. Fucker was a lawyer, but he was a lawyer who worked for the Warren Commission and he guided the witnesses she guided. This is a guide. The autopsy chief awful mad, but anyway he came up with a bullet that goes through too hard bones and create seven wounds and Kennedy and Conaway calls at them there. And then it comes out prestige, the call it the prestige, but so joke, but that becomes and they actually went without then that's a bit the weakest saying, oh or commissioners, the pristine bullet them achievable in theory, but on top of that, You have this, the Zapruder film. The shows you the front this that the shot from the front then hit some sort of too big,
staring out. You that's evidence. Is there any part of you of it just don't even if you don't believe Oswald did not because I've there's another store him as well, but they did the thing. Is it even if it was Oswald on the sixth floor window, shooting it with a man. Carcano, which is the worst weapon and were were too. She could pride. Tell you this piece of shit weapon at action. It's a bolt action. You have to take place miss your first shot and then you hit you're the billiard. You can receding from you in a car through a tree, and why don't you take so it is coming towards you. I don't know assume that you let him make the curve and you go down away from you. Then you mischief not that you hit him the last two, always within six seconds, it's crazy! That's that the weapon! not even use and they have made the print contact. You never had a paraffin test. There's no chance, evidence on the weapon itself plus they found other rifles at day the mouser they found other types of shells. It was a botched botched casey.
That well done. Are you tired of sort of way the go to guy with this go to this. But if you want, if you're serious I'll, get you three or four you're gonna sit hearing will take you through this step by step, does mean like professionals as an image. As a writer director are you deserve any party. That's like ice right about fictional people. Really I do but suspiciously nature. It is like they're stupid, the Warren Commission, the arrogance of government power, and they did make such they weren't that Smart their shocked by the way life goes on. Technology goes on. I think we could do. I must go on No, no! No! It's good. I mean let's listen. This is something that you're passionate about in its end and in its fastening you know. Unfortunately, I dont have enough information like I'm here.
Everything you're saying I'm not like I don't know just remember, people will argue with you and all this he was shot from to sign. Remember that the most important thing he was shot from size was not shot from one you shop in the back and from I mean ass to be another gunman, that gun and hat. If you stand in Dili Plaza, has to be at the fence: ass, the killer, shot. You see, I'm coming towards you, it's a beautiful shot. You can easily get him a good marksman can as what was not a good marks, but that's just remember, shot from two sides and back into the left until those your two basic things, and you can't and we'll go to court on that will fight metrology We can get our exports from both sides and I think you'll believe our side when, where, when we're done well, you also, you also seem to have a sense of humor about that mean. I remember seeing you in Dave, whereas, like the shot
like that? He has put into the background and you can see that is clearly not the same. You like the guy from David, I wasn t the only guy was rightly engineers was right, but then you also, you also did. Did you series and early nineties right was a term palms right. Yes, where, whether interviewing near the background, I like it, it's like it's like. Is the fugitive like so does it is sensible to know that you are right about everything I agree here. I write about these twelve chapters too. I hope our history sms history of Amerika, you modern Male unified in one place, and it's not our workers, historians. We build on the shoulders of other people, call war, revisionist, supervise this history, but I'm not an original research, I'm only a dramatist working with a historian whose working on the shoulders of life Six or seven major historians from the nineteen. Fifty cent sixties have done this question of our history, so as dramatists, where
the line between represent red representing something was, as fact but then also, you know, having put in artistic spin on it or unless it s in the film that in the document not of a documentary, no in the film now I would always you you say: based on a life for based on the sugar regime. Temptation knows you you're taking Syria many different witnesses, you're making, maybe one or two witnesses first dramatic length you're happy now. Seventeen incidents happen to a person or twenty five incidents, and you make him into five. You know you have to find a way to make it a story that transcends where refer moving now since I got no, I don't. I don't lie. If I know something is wrong, I won't do it. I will put in the move: I'm not only have we not lying Somebody'Ll makers will and they'll say it's a movie. Well I mean some have been launched or whatever this been love been zero whatever it was Europe in thirty
Zira, generic thirty. They would have. You believe that do torture led to the but you're in some way led to the assess execution of the revenge, you're gone did Latin correct. I dont believe it. I don't think you should have had that. I think tortured, demeans demeans is a country and I don't think we used it because I think what we do with terrorists as we find them. We find them through informants for the most part intelligence and we ad hoc, specific activity, probably learn what I've been found, because somebody gave em up because we're lot of money involved was a lot of pressure that way if it generally gangsters of the terrorists, are revealed by other people who work with them. That's my stuff doesn't come from putting about the eastern in the whole world and trying to find a pin and in a haystack it doesn't work. That way. Do you feel it because your Europe for torture, we allow for international eavesdropping, global, doesn't global architecture. We say we need that to fight. Terrorists were really wrong.
We're morally wrong, so do you feel like it? Are you the addictive people, just on tat, you all the time and go Hey Oliver Stone. I have some weird information about something this. As a result, I know more than you think a lot of stuff, but some of it is the thing is. I can ignore things I mean they try to pay attention. It's very hard to get a lot of stuff, but I always try to have a covered. Her would listen to onion credibly reason. Because there is stuff out there in the world. That is shocking. So do you feel like some of my Snowden is more patriotic in some cases. I think he did it at our lessons, nor I believe you see here. I've said so politically publicly and what was the response? I think digital people ruined me. I didn't an essay Pierre say antagonistic Yes, I! As for the issue and for the Electronic Frontier foundation, I think it's com,
now we ve been on tv. We ve stated our views. I told him. I totally agree with clean Green walled in his view of in the wrongness of these measures. As I said, putting out a amnesia Nineteen eighty four all see state is not a solution. Is a terrifying solution scares everybody assessing do you too. You two were all suspect. Nobody is innocent in this world now, because, with this mentality shut it when the EU member Bush, you, I don't know you're young enough her. Oh you mean the first pushed the second, but bullshit, I remember him when he said you're, either with us or against us and was terrifying All of a sudden. He took two thousand. Linda Terrorists, and made them into sixty different countries, any shit you know you're all you're, not with us your against us. That scares me when so many because I don't know whose really well,
The power of United States have technologically to destroy people. Drones space weaponry, anything that they would deem terrorists in the future. Let me know geometric, do you have a sense of history right? You know the people who form totalitarian states like Hitler or Franco or Mussolini would declare terrorists. People inside their state, anybody was opposing to their authoritarianism, would be called a terrorist. That's a common! It's a common method of operation. Ammo So what would you Joe you? Maybe you cause of your underground rail road connections, because your against Libya, we're afghani war, because your fora for Europe note and all the a sudden you're on your own their web. Maybe they gonna clear you a terrorist. Did you ever feel like you are in danger from them now yeah or people. I've thought about it, and so does everybody agrees that any sense would think
using thereof, there's iphone or anything. You use me how you're being tracked Alla time if you, if they want retroactively- and that's gonna watch me now, but if they wanted to go back and check file and lets, say another Bush comes into office or have another terrorist incident where everyone goes crazy again What would you be? Your solution would be your solution. What would be the first thing you could do if someone said hey of sound take over the government. What do you do Declare Monday holiday. Ok, that's good idea. Reality. You get RNA weekend Yes, they were gonna before day work way and that's sewage, gonna be ok, ok onboard, repeal the Patriot ACT and I'd repeal and I'd fire there. The USA
and the cia- and I would start over, I would start over and I would get into the Pentagon that led me to dangerous because that's a separate government inside our country. Well, I dont mean nobody's going to travel you're going to have a smiley. It's very sweet of you to have me. It was a great you. This is a really. This is a really great. This is really fascinating. And- and- and it is I mean it's- you know you're detail and your knowledge is, is definitely intimidating and most of them just listening. I thought you were smart. Yeah, you better watch all twelve trapped. I definitely will watch outside Joe literally. If you don't you I'll come back, you will I want, and we can involve discussion and I'd like money could be part of the korean discussion. You have anything to say about nets, she's, a verse. Korea this summer, protests in the island of the building another naval base sufferance on Jesu Island was a beautiful island, ruining it out.
I believe it is only through miles for showing icy Anti China pivot that we are doing, and so he went there to browser Koreans. I went to Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Okinawa O Connor was another based, fuller bases and has also done a strange history. Where were too and career it's is really one of our most important ally, armed teach. Each Japan are armed to the teeth by us. And there are ready for Germany Opportunities to just have fun. X I mean we love Korea, I love Japan. I love those places yeah. I do I look like us. I have. I have fun, do what he. Why do? I look like? I don't have not just because I know, because because the document, because the fiftieth addition, yeah weren't, diverse readjust ITALY, is so serious and so serious and like JFK, I'm writing something new. So you know movie by the way, not a not a documentary, Good Fitch, fictional them, our basic romantic based on
So it is not a very that's all right. What's good Asea banks and he at the other stone on twitter and fifty. If additional, for I mean the event of a face book to and facing Oliver Stone experiencing the honest and experiences yes of it. So the new edition, the fiftieth anniversary, JFK Dish, is out which is important back said: and also the until history. The United States are Showtime dimension. Yet we do we do in deliberate now, leaving noticed tat com it does not resolve the notice by just brought you buy shudder, stock dot com. Seven hundred thousand high quality video clips shudder stock. Helps you take your creative projects at the next level. For thirty percent of new account go to shudder stock that common you offer code, noticed eleven noticed and the number eleven.
Transcript generated on 2020-07-12.