This is Jocko podcast number one. Twenty four echo Charles in me, Jocker willing bidding. Good evening. Bullets punch through the chopper as never Knight jumped out together, ran over to the farthest wounded. Guy grabbed him ran back and tossed him into the bird we picked up The second wounded, inaction, the same way and then a third third, amazingly without becoming casualties ourselves. By the time everyone was loaded onto the helicopter. There was no room inside for me I stood on the skids and put on my helmet, so I could tell the pilot to take off, but I. I couldn't talk. I was Oh dried out. My tongue had well did itself to the roof of my mouth out of pure fear

to open my canteen and drink some water. Before I could even gasp. Let's get this mother out of here. We took the did back to base and wood to the fight out anything holding him up now. I could now couldn't figure out why Turkey didn't do so in about getting his men consolidated outside of that Patty. He still kept saying he was pin down. Finally, I lost my temper. Really cute is ass over the radio demanding he get cracking and get those men out of that Patty. Now apparently the next thing he did put down the radio stay, straight up and in running from man to man to get them to move back. He got mode downright away and died. Short time later.

Maybe I hadn't learned a damn thing at my card or from Dennis Foley's near Miss in that minefield I had asked to be to stand up. He didn't need to in order to extricate himself, but it hadn't occurred to me that he would. I'd been playing, the game is, if we tenant nap, a lack natural more season. Leader was in charge. It was due to the force of my word as commander that this experienced young lieutenant was set. He was deaf. Like Jim Gardeners, torpedo death was guilt thing for me, and has remained so All my life in that He's an excerpt from the

talk about face which is better. David hack worth a book, we covered on this podcast. In fact, it was the first book we come on this podcast, and there is a reason for that. The book about face what And is my favorite book? When I was deployed to remedy in two thousand and six, I read it and re. Read it every chance. I got now The book is about war, but I have always found it to be a book about leadership and, in my opinion, the best book I have ever read about leadership. Hack words was born and raised in California, lied about his age and join the mortar Marines and served in the South Pacific and the end of world war. Two. And then he joined the army, where you Stu ranks serving

The korean WAR and the Vietnam WAR Battlefield Commission notes Greer in combat he was awarded to distinguish service crosses eight silver stars, three legions of merit. A distinguished flying cross, an ape people hearts and in the end came an outspoken opponent of how we were fighting the war in Vietnam and that cost him his career in the army. We went on to write these books. Was able to pass on the lessons that he learned through its books about face. As I said, we covered on podcast number two. We also wrote a book called steal. My soldiers heart, which is On paragraph twenty, eight. Unfortunately, he died.

On May forth to them and five before. I ever got the chance to meet him. A few months ago, someone reached out to me on social media. Someone by the name of J, Muky Alma. Then he was a listener to the park gascony. He thought I'm just might be interested in talking to his father, James Movie, Alma. The name looked, Pretty familiar, I thought I recognized it now quickly realized that this the full name, of one of the men that appeared in both books about face and steal my soldiers, heart. The man, Colonel hack worth simply called milk, replied D J and said I would be apps. Salute the honour to be introduced to his father, who was in fact

major General James, Muky, Alma, a retired army officer that had served as a company commander in Vietnam working directly for colonel hack worth and after them logistical coordination. It is my absolute honour to welcome James Looky Amr to the park, asked sir. This is an absence honor. Well, Jacko it it is the same and decide this. To some of your part CAS, especially steal my soldiers hearts and I couldn't stop listening to it, and then realize. I looked at my watch and I said this is over. Two hours are ready, just because of the way you picked out.

The really important thing said: had half growth. In fact, I forgot a lot of things until you, you read verbatim some of the things in it said in, and he lived what he wrote, I might add he lead by example. There Why did we have taken a tunnel lessons from him over the years and that that's why it's just amazing to be sitting here with you and let talk about you, though. Let's talk about how you ended up in the army and where you came from and what your background was. You know what I want. You take Back to Chicago sure I was born and raised in the inner city of Chicago Neighbourhood, called Logan Square, primarily polish German, italian. We would only minority family in that neighbourhood little grammar school of nine hundred my brother- and I the only minorities,

so I grew up. I got basically enough. Eminently white wine, violent, but I never felt like. I was different, really As everybody treated me five, it time in life in the inner city. Were but he knew each other here in our neighbourhood, our block. We didn't lock our doors. You know Everybody knew that's a time when you know most mothers stayed at home and they were the police of other lock. Body would come by the ways out of order. You know they would take care of it, but we we I take lower middle class economically, we never. On the whole, we always in an apartment, building my father was an immigrant from Japan. My mother was her. Family was from Japan, but she was actually born in Madison Wisconsin.

And so my grandparents live with us. You know we all We generations in the same apartment in I never felt poor. I you know, because we had a strong family. Our church was only three blocks. Way from our apartment building every Sunday we put on our Sunday best clothes and we would walk as a family to church Now it's interesting you you, you said your dad had emigrated from Japan and your mom was born in Wisconsin here where's. Your mom, not in your mom, get put me in turn, Mccann's with her family during World war. Two! No! No, not here! Here's the thing my other came to the states and nineteen eighteen. In fact, I was kind of a funny thing he was he was gonna say not for a world war, one you know which was still go but then it ended. So he couldn't you couldn't sign up and

and then, when world were to Haiti was to all you know and plus you is a Japanese he I don't know if you know this or not, Japanese could not become citizens naturalized, citizens of the United States until one thousand nine hundred and fifty two, and so so he was here. He was stored, a japanese citizen, but he was in cargo might. My family was in Chicago my mother and Father my brother, I wasn't born. I was born during World WAR two, and so we didn't have to go to camp, mostly the ninety five percent of japanese Americans. At that time or any one of japanese descent, live on the West Coast in California, Oregon in Washington State Colorado in so and the war hit Pearl Harbor hit.

President, Roosevelt signed executive order, nine zero, six, six, which called for thee all people of Japanese descend to be evacuated from the West Coast in putting concentration camps in the inner part of the country basically and deserted desert areas, and these camps they euphemistically referred refer to them as relocation centres. But there really cut my stay here. Your standard concentration camp with barbed wire fences with machine guns facing in not out in people not being able to come and go as they placed a hundred and thirty thousand people of japanese descent were put in these camps and two thirds of them were american citizens, not aliens, ok and no trials, no, no, the only crime

they had committed was that the color of their skin in their back did they work of The need to set it suited your family, avoid that because they were in Chicago Yeldo, only like three or four hundred of us in Chicago at the time, and we weren't considered a threat. But my other, the rest in my family, my grandparents, mother's side. In my cousins, aunts and uncles. They were all in California and they all got evacuated. Just imagine this year is a Friday night. And you get a knock on your door. Gay is the local FBI agent as on Monday morning, be at the corner of Washington and State Street with two suitcases end of communication? Ok- and you You know you don't have time to do. Hardly anything and you you know you oh there, and then you put on a train.

You don't know where you're going. And you wind up in a camp when you're there for three years. Ok, so let's say: you're were at owner of a small business. You lose the business. You no longer have a job right, see, can't pay your mortgage and thinks I ve lost their lost everything. And now you're eating, let's say you're, eighteen years, all ok! This happened to your family right. And the local army be cruder guns that camp and says I want you to go die for your country, you know frankly Jackal I don't know what I would have done it I told you gotta, take a walk or use other, yet so many of them joined up animals of the hundreds of a town in the four hundred. Forty second regimental commenting that's right end and those guys fought with incredible bravery and handsome

critical battles that turn some the tide and some critical situations as well yeah. They were the most highly decorated infantry unit in the history of the United States Army for its size and time of service. They were regimental combat team. Let's about forty five hundred soldiers cause they headed are too. Lee Battalion another thinks there were attached. Ok eighteen months. A calm they were awarded over nine thousand purple hearts. Some guy said three or four, you know and if not more and that you know present the presidential you, citation you familiar reorient order, their army divisions that never got that award. Ok, that regimental combat team was awarded eight presidential unit citation that's unbelievable. Yet they were my personal heroes. So that's endeavours to kind of get back to your question NOS One of the reasons that there

One day join the army I was actually going to ask that. So you know you're sitting here saying if you weren't one of those camps, you don't know if you would might have to tell him to go, take a walk, but time came. You you'd you'd He walked into the recruiters office yacht away from it yeah. Well, in my case, when I was in high school As I told you, you know, a faith is a very strong part of my whole life. I've been so blessed, life beyond anything I deserve, and so when I was our church, you know we go to church every Sunday I was in the choir. I was in cup scouts. I was in boy scouts. I was in the youth group in all of this was centred around the church, When I was in scouts, I wanted a national jam. Borri in Valley Forge Pennsylvania's with

the two thousand when my best friend living in tents, and but you know that was in what was the symbol, of their January George Washington, had valley. Forge kneeling in prayer and the motto of scouting forgotten country. So there was really my model. Then I was in a boy state Are you familiar with boys state, no boy state is an American Legion programme. Does it still exist? Yes, gutter and it's it's been around problem for fifty years now- and I went it- was twenty fifth year. Ok, so it's more than fifty years and the concept of boys state as they take junior high school juniors ready to go into senior year and who are leaders basically and they form a.

Quasi state government for two weeks and they actually divided into two political parties. Then all calm, Republicans undemocratic on something else in and they have state government, county government and local city govern you run for offices and you actually have to come up with a platform and you debate, and so is. It said this lesson in civics but was sponsored by the American Legion, so we all lived in like doors and the dorms we had to make our beds. You could bounce a quarter on it. You know what to do all army blanket stuff in constant, but it was wonderful. It was just a great experience, but so when I was in high school, I thought I was very active in my church. In my I know that you have guy- and I was president

My my high school youth group at the church and then I became the vice president of the Chicago associate. Where did you play sports? Not? Well, I No, I didn't I was, and what about your grades wrong? I was That is very serious matter of my family school in high school. Now they have valedictorian grammar school. Yeah shows you how well I did it grammars. You already know that I always Ben I play clarinet and saxophone saw was the first year Clarence The band, though, is the principal woodwind in Europe is strong, and so, but anyway I said, has reacted in my church, youth group and I am thinking of becoming a minute. Ok, but then I was in June Euro TC in Chicago Has the nations largest Junior our ROTC programme about thirty high schools? Have it and it's a great pro?

when people misunderstand J, Ai Rotc facing us, a feeder for the military, ok I mean some of them do go into the military, but that's not the purpose. The purpose is to give these high school students something other than gangs to belong to the need to give them experience and leadership in discipline in teamwork. And it's it's a tremendous program, so I was in Junior out to sea, was so it's that combined with you're here the view of the like the four hundred forty second, those things your kind of starting to Congeal in your head and maybe move you towards Terry Doubt and then, in addition to that, I have just one sibling in older brother he's about seven. Older than, and

he joined. The army, as an unlimited guy, but in the first year of college she was in a military, fraternity, Hall Pershing Rifles, which other people like Coleman Paul. In some, said minute, including myself. When I went to the review of I in the end understand also that I'm japanese American in the japanese culture The warrior the samurai is at the top of the social strata. Ok, unlike China Word, these scholar was at that in Japan, it's the warrior. So when I join the military when I became a commission officer. My dad was so proud of. His is small t shirts. All the large in when I became a journal, it's like You know incredible, but I saw it. So I won't do or to see in

colleges. Well, oh yes, sir! I'm a drink. Guy right in- and I was here's here's the thing, though, as I too you. I was thinking becoming a minister, but then I I also wanted to serve in the military. So what do you think I would do chaplain, perhaps exactly little problem, I'm protestant my denomination theological e went so far away from what I believe, then, that I didn't bite the theology. So now I'm praying got it right and I'm saying I get the message. I guess you want me to do my military so that's what I do. Ok but you fast forward fifty years fifty five years. What am I doing today, I'm doing but I want to do and I was in high school because I have military outreach. Usa, faith Bates Non profit that I started so it's a lesson in prayer and address. At that time I thought

God was telling me no, he was, and telling me no, he was wait, it's on my schedule not known your schedule. I mean you know mature enough either is as Terry Guy, nor is in my faith, So what what year was it that you're shown up in college? six thousand one hundred and sixty one Darden, so you for years of college, make nine hundred and sixty five play. Vietnam is really not escalated yet at that point, what did you think it was pretty hard it time- and I I basically by that time I I was on the military thing right. I wasn't it chaplain anymore. So I was improving levels of Zenda Rifle team. I was on the drill team. You if it smelled military. I was ok now Gimme member I had for years of high school I ROTC. Also before I went to bed

for my part, you're, pretty good at your drill. I take. I had any infantry I'll BC, infantry, also space, of course, piece of cake, and I went do that. I was an undergraduate my class and in fact this is really funny my class about two hundred, your brand new second lieutenants right about a third of it was national guard and about a third. Reserves and there are only a few of us were regular army. She, I gotta, distinguish military Graduate Commission, regular Army infantry, and so very few of us were regular army in my class. So our attitude was not really first, shall we say- and so we get the burning and they they marched us. The class I mean decision to us. It was And saying we're second lieutenants he'll just tell us where the building is more get there right. Now we had the march in formation. The army

So, needless to say, the attitude was never your good guy with my company. So the day we graduated, ok, they use, heavy award a that companies could put on their guide on those called the Tiger Tactics Award, your decision. Really gung ho. You don't come, these and all that which ours was not needless to say. Well, the night before we stole her funding, another company, every put it on our guide. I saw a graduation day remark. By the headquarters and outcomes that commander the guy's livid leaves a word. You guys get there. You know it's just disappeared. And we were graduate that what's gonna do to us writes a week we all graduated in then was it. So so nineteen sixty five didn't you gotta go. You went to to graduate school, hereafter yeah, here's the thing you know, I told you. I had a week

we didn't have a lot of money for me to vote a college, so I knew I had to earn it myself right. So when I was in school, my senior year, I work thirty three hours a week. I work from five to ten o clock at night at a warehouse in Chicago and I eight hours on Saturday, so I could raise money. Ok, I also played into balance. I told Please don't saxophone! I pleaded in a polish ban for weddings and now a so called because by the third set everybody was so last, nobody dared and then by also played in the jewish ban. Scientists to play for Barnett's was fine new, all the temple. Since your cargo now used to tell people I hadn't coming here, you re in and then I had the right to factories, government loans and that's the only way I could afford to go to school and so so sick, viable simona gradually, and I find this interesting for us a real obvious reason.

You majored an English young college, The reason I did that Jack always once again, you know I'm pretty focused sky. In my my focus was on becoming the best officer. I could be best leader, I could be of infantry soldiers, and I knew I was going to combat. So when is a freshman. I tried to determine what am I going to major in to prepare me for that. So I looked at psychology and I looked at english- not rhetoric, but english literature, okay. I rejected psychology in my first year because we had these classes classes with Pavlov than his dogs and all this about penal and I'm just going through that nice and what does this have to do it? People You know I mean I want to learn hundred work with people, while Literature Do you read the whole continuum of Every man who Shakespeare Hemingway. If you read that stuff.

There are universal trace of human nature. They come out at you. Ok, if you and understand it. You can realise what motivate people, ok site and then not only that, but if you read the best writers of all time, I just felt by sure Us Moses Gun that the smartest guy, just by sheer Us Moses, you know I could absorbed, and I could Spress myself better. So that's why majored in English and I've talked about. I was an english majors. Well, I was I was I was prior enlisted so I'd. Been in for eight years and actually had been infer ten years by the time I went to college and I knew right away. I was going to be eating with major. The reason want to be an english major cuz. I I got a commission and serve two years in the in the seals before I went to college as an officer, and I realize you got to write everything you got to read.

Gives from people do not understand what they're saying and then you gotta communicate with your troops, and I wanted to have a good command of the english language. The the part that you talked about the understanding of human nature, with something that I saw once I got in and I started reading its art start applying in thinking about what I was reading and now. This is something that I, that I vacate for everyone to. If you want to really understand human nature, gotta read so I was when I was waiting. When I said that in nineteen sixty five, the war, because otherwise it will be yours. I drank ninety that was nineteen. Sixty five. Wasn't it the lodging. Thank you. I think I think we ll sixty five.

I think it was, and you know they kind of use that as hey. This is when the real escalation started in and the reason I asked you that, specifically because I've had some Vietnam bets on that we're going to college in nineteen sixty five and they were like they naming and even heard of Vietnam. At that point, so I guess is inevitable. As I was in hour ROTC, you know kind of paying more attention to the euro, and I I was going to benefit and we know is forgotten. Glues and you knew you run a combat as well. Oh yeah, that was your minds y yeah establishment, all very infantry officers in Europe and thereby does that to me. Was where I wanted to go in and so in sixty five. Got an. I got an offer to get an assistant trip. You know too, to be the council, during the door, but it's like I die went to Heaven because they they paid for tuition and fees, and I got like a hundred bucks

the months salary which to me with riches guy in the world. But the important thing was, I could get my masters degree. Ok, the way I got it in a year because I went to summer school I'm I'm gonna go on active duty, but this was a chance for me. The goal assistant chip and not have to pay for it, but now the pragmatism kicks in. For me in August, you don't really with an english degrees. You know you know it's great for preparing you too. Stan things, but you know that in fifty cents in those days we get me a cup of coffee. So I and then I knew I was going to go. I combat noise can be infantry officer in the odds of my perhaps goody wounded. You know were fairly decent, so I need to have a fall back you know that I wasn't even accountants. I wasn't a c p, a regional, something like that.

So I got my masters in the teaching of social studies, so I could be a teacher. You know you don't want the run two hundred yards dash to be a teacher and so on gene is a noble profession in I always felt that you know it's something I could do if I got wounded and still contribute to society. The an seventy, or you know that seventy five percent, your time is an officer or senior and o is teaching you know. So I figured I want to find out how to approach to it, allegedly What I found out is the military. Has the best education system really does you know I didn't have to get my masters degree in history. In philosophy, education, it s sake and all that stuff no need it so you? You wrap up. You get your masters degree, and now you, you know you're gonna, Vietnam. What what happens when you graduate ok sigh, I gotta Fourpenny, Michael.

I'll, be see, I'm I'm an otter graduate, my class. I didn't finish s story. This, my my my class, it always in you know, really bad at. It is right and on the day of graduation, they announced the undergraduates. Ok, I was in the third platoon, so first, the they announced the young graduates in the platoon secondly, to India. Now the only registered platoon which I'm in I'm the only guy who's, an undergraduate out Michael to when they. It's my name, everybody because you're not recorded right. So what happened? I volunteered for I volunteered for Europe? wives, regular army. So I had that I had to go airborne. I volunteered for Ranger School, but in those days the West pointers all ills mandatory. They had to go to Ranger school. So I graduated the same time that the West pointers did they took up all the quotas.

Sorry, I didn't I couldn't get into ranger school, but I had a solution see I'm always thinking I was gonna I applied for pathfinder school, so I figured I'd go through pathfinder school. I finished at the West point, gone, I could slide into the next ranger class right. They didn't give me can't find so now, I'm stuck rights. I said ok and voluntary for Vietnam and they sent me to Korea. So I was in the DMZ in Korea, which is really a God thing. I've gotta tell you this because I was with second, I D, the DMZ in those days you with your assign- and you stay there for thirteen months- the energy and there were still active, combat patrolling in New York. We take casualties yarn that tighter clean monster was there we have to ok, I mean about forty wounded. Ok, so this is not a walk in the park and it was. There was a great experience for me because in it

shouldn t see in the DMZ we are. She had a company compound, ok and reaction had her guard mount. You know and we had our own and c o club and we had in, and so we had all, but all the s of the admin stuff that you do when you're in garrison, but we are doing combat patrolling every day on the DMZ. So it was really a great various for me as a young officer, because I was Will the Lee troops out on patrol, but also I had to do all this admin stuff in garrison, and so that was your Potu commander tour. What would the patrols like? What were you doing? A base Thirdly, the ambush patrols, because the deal Z was set up where it was a free fire zone if you saw anyone, you could shoot him because nobody was supposed to be there okay and we would have to see.

Korean chunky, which is tell him to stop. You know, but how many times, if you say that before you pull the trigger basically but weak, we did ambush for trolling, primarily. And that was you said you were lucky here. He said it was God that put you there and you feel that, because That's just a really good sort of warm up for combat absolute. That's, I feel that way. My first appointed to Iraq was was real actively. It was relatively easy ride. We were in a thin. Dad things were going pretty. Well, we have the upper hand on the enemy and we didn't. Get into too much major combat, yet we got a few firefights here and there, but wasn't When I got romani, I felt like that. I was your blessed to have had it experience where you get the kind of the initial nervousness out of your system- and you realize ok, I can do this- that down

I felt pretty lucky about that. Well, also keep in mind always of suggest the young second turn it shaved here. What had I know really and I was once again blessed. I had a sergeant who really even a korean war veterans you're, the guy was actually any sudden. Ok in and basically when I got there, you know I was his lieutenant ok, so nobody screwed around with me, but I love you. Her hand, I listened real carefully. That's one thing I learned you know As the young officer I've had my success in the military, because I had great and see who made me look good and I had commander cemented me and didn't cut my hair. When I screwed up when I made my first year mistakes. We are you done with that tour Would you would your next assignment, so you know

get your dream. She write love where you want to go when you dear off, when you leave that area, and so I put in for Fort Bragg, for Fort Benning Cuz. I want to go to an airborne unit cuz. I was everyone, but it never served in an airborne unit right. They sent me to Fort Lewis, Washington. So I bought a fort Louis Washington to thee the training centre, Infantry training centre. Ok and when I get there, I am. I made a long story short when I was in Korea. I ask was they found out? I had a masters degree, so they pulled me off the line and the battalion commander calls me into his office right side. I go under says Lieutenant movie alma. How you doing sir, I'm having a great time. You know I'm soldiers, you know it, combat patrolling you know.

Really. This is what I have been trained to do in any sense. I'm happy so he says I see you have a masters degree. I said yes, sir Then he said you know our battalion agitate is leaving and you haven't you meaning what you can see where this is not always right- and I said yes, sir, and he said well. How would you like to be the battalion adjutant- and I said Sir, I'm honored did you at even consider this, but I'm really happy leading soldiers. Any said lieutenant. I'm not looking for happiness in your report on Monday morning. Yes, sir, okay, so off, I would In the end I became battalion tell you, but that, once again, with the great experience for me cause, I

I learned a lot at the admin stuff in unfortunately, and some I also saw some bad stuff goin, on which I was not happy with ice, yeah I'd because I was the acronym. I didn't tell you is that was at battalion level, the brigade edge and left, and they called me up to Brigade Libido Brigade First lieutenant, that's a majors position right, but I happened to be pretty good. Is that August the best battalion had you not on all the Italians, so I go up there. I go up there to brigade to be the brigade answering and what I found was you know the officer efficiency reports in the early hours. I knew all the commanders, because I dealt with more ok so Jim Muammar were to read that the telling commanders based on their leadership right.

In our debated them. One two, three four but I saw the report's going through in was forthwith to one in in and ass, because they were looking for managers, not commanders, and so that we saw that with a tough till the swallow, so I opening for as yet You know when I worked out the animals aid and I saw I didn't see stuff like that. That turned me off, but I saw a just just getting better grip on what was happening behind the scenes was very input. For me in and help me out, you know later on, and when you were in for Louis that's when you first met Hackamore thrice absolute. If this is so cool when none

When have now I'm a camp. By this time I can't write and I met the I'm under Secretary general of the eschew. Yes, I was the Secretary General staff. Ok, what that means is that, with the assistant for their chief of staff, Basically, and so do you know who hack worth was? Okay, we are we on any heck was a legend. You know every He knew who he was, but also because I had that job when my functions was always the guy who coordinated the general schedule and achieve the sands schedule in hack worth with reporting into Fort Lou. As a new battalion commander, ok, well, whenever a new battalion commander came in, I always did research on the person you know. So I could tell the general you here is: the guy was come in. Hers is background, while half worthless

you're, Mr Infantry, basically it so when He came to see. The general he walks into their headquarters. You know sitting behind this desk. He walks in so I stand up you I say: welcome Colonel Hack to Fort Louis, you look general will be with you in ten minutes. You know cause he came early right. The first words out of half were small: I'm not kidding first, words. What are you doing sitting behind a desk? he said you should have a company you serve. You want one I'll give it to you. Ok, Guy doesn't know me from arrow right. I mean you know in but yells I was pretty sharp in the way of warming uniform. I did have my job wings and- DE. I have an expert infant treatments batch. Ok and I had my ye- be that's it. I didn't were any ribbons. Reda stung him just to stuff accounted counted for us and so Hacksaw there

in and I said, colonel. I really appreciate you know what you're saying, but I came to the same conclusion that you did a couple months ago and I have already talked to a battalion commander whose accepted me to take one of his companies, so I am committed to him, sir. I can't you I'd love to take you up on your offer, but I can't because I committed to the southern battalion commander and he said I understand totally more. That turned out to be another God thing because later on, as you know, in the book he and I got together when we see the career of a drill sergeant when I just wanna here a little bit more about this, because it something that I haven't been able to gather from anyone You know in my mind you know I thought everyone must look at hack like

You know this guy's, Mr Infantry, as you put it, but I also would say to myself. Well you know: here's the I'm thinking that cause. He wrote these books and because I studied him, but that was an actual offering people knew who he was by his reputation throughout the army. Yeah was not only its reputation but his appearance. I mean you're his neck. Was probably the size of my waist. I mean this hack worth was just. Only I said you know you mustn't bald like A? U nobody, eel eighth of an inch razor sharp sides in all that, but at what I do, we say is when he Hepworth had this unique ability the size people up when he saw them like when he said that to me in- and I have said this before, but hackers his philosophy was you're. Either a duck or a study and there is nothing in between and he had this. Uncanny I've seen

So I've seen it dozens of times were here. We did size guys up, and I never saw him this Add evaluation. He you just had this this instinct decisive know. And that's it. That's why he was successful is a commander was one of the principles. Is the surround yourself with good people? and so, when he came to a unit, he found some guys were cutting it. They were gone astray. In combat. We cannot tolerate that. You know, and he would- and he had the strings that you support and he had the relationships all over the place had seen as right now When did he leave with to go to Vietnam and take over the battalion here either, Probably let the sea I left in May of sixty nine! So probably end of sixty eight or me The early, sixty nine

and he goes over and he's over there for a few months and then he ends up needed while he wants to surround himself with good people again and so he reaches out to you. How does it? How does that happened? Well, you know I was still at Louis as any I company commander in and another thing? I should tell you at that time not very happy with the army cause the never gave me any assignment anything. I ever ass. You like! Oh four, for at this point. We are you ready for this. I get what I didn't tell you was in graduate school. I majored in japanese history and chinese history in political science and japanese language in my masters of social studies. Ok- and I happen to be japanese America I happen to have had a tour in Korea right whereby the way I didn't tell you, I got some awards from the korean Army in so

the army comes out. With the four area, special, be training, program or fast, gay and the concept as a great concept. Your Vietnam. We got caught with our pants down because we don't have any army experts in Vietnam. Nobody the culture, nobody knew the language to politics, sound familiar, and so basically the army said: ok we're going to develop geographic experts, for the whole world- ok and we're going to call the fast programme. So I saw their than it was in the army time you, they said you'd be Evan Interests, called it number three and on site called you know, and he said he looked pull up my record. You know you'll see young. I've got my masters degree by recent affairs ethnically. Japanese. I've got it touring. Korea, where I got some away from the korean army. Ok- and

regular army right. What a my chances in this programme that should be a hundred percent right. Are you ready for this? The first words outer guys mouth, you haven't been Vietnam and I said: well, that's right, But if you go back in my record, you'll see I wanted for vehicles in the me, said: Mina Korea, ok, he said, but that doesn't Co. Uk. The second thing he said was: you haven't been career course, scores were off six. Look. He got me there. I hadn't, you know just a young captain, I hadn't dinner, so innocence he's telling me you know American a couple years and maybe we'll think about it. You know he didn't give me. Any encouragement you didn't say: hey you're natural, for this programme. You know, I'll keep on monitoring your career. You know I love you didn't do any of that stuff about that. I get the letter from Hepworth, saying immigration, if we are war going on. If you want

company is yours it like I hit the Lotto, you know, and I am frankly others thinking of Euro resigning, my regular army commission, but I haven't been Vietnam, yet- and I was a bachelor I had a lot of my friends who were married or go back for their second and third tours. You know and I felt an obligation, no doubt, but I figured will. Maybe if I go, I changed my mind. You know, serving under half what would be the best opportunity acted. I could have side jumped at a time when it, but things did not care. How did you get orders? I mean you know, I know hack worth had some relationships of people, but just to get a guide deployed to be in his battalion. How did you poor Harry pull that often look like? While I mean I, I called my infantry. A sure sign that guy who might never spoken too in the five years, I was on active duty right because I we felt that I shouldn't be

managing my own career in all fight. If I did my job, the army. Would you I'd I'd be treated? Ok, You know what none of that ever happened right, so I called the sky at the Pentagon. I say he volunteering for Vietnam again, and he basically said? Well? Ok, you don't give me your phone number in case we lose connection here and and then he said, and I said, but I have a stipulation that I need to go to the night vision and he said okay, I can make that happen What do you want to go? I said as soon as possible in this in February and he said why can get you there in August, and I said no, that's not soon enough. He said how about April I said, sold so got orders tat. You know now everybody told me in the world at that time. Here I am, infantry. Regular army captain go in Vienna when I hit the rapid double

they could assigned me anywhere you're. The orders meant nothing because captains infantry captains were diamond doesn't so when I get to Vietnam, everything was greased night division, I went them the night. I went from from Saigon right through the night division downtown. Land their got. My orders to his battalion is all of these. What you do. It's some kind of like Vietnam and doktor nation for a week. Long and an hack pulled you out two days into utter so yeah I want so upset. They had a five day in country training programme for new bees. Ok, especially you know well beyond the daughter at eighty five percent of our casualties for from booby traps and so we were- and there was a special terms you know with rice paddies in and

a canals and you're just the whole thing was totally different, and so they had this five day. Training where's, the acclimate you in tat. Stand booby traps in the terrain and all this stuff- and I mean, for two days and pulled out the course they put on a helicopter and they take me onto the italian fire support. Son manner than a weapon you know I gotta have any say, sir. You know. How can you do this to me? I mean I'm trying to learn how to stay alive. You know so I can, and he said Mook you don't need that stuff. I know you, you know yes, sir. Yes, sir, and when you showed up so for those who get had read, having read books or listen to the other part ass about this, worth it showed up, but he was requested by name to go and take over the Fort thirty Nathan, Vietnam, which was a problem with which was a battalion. That was having a lot of problems, and he went in there and defects

I mean that's too, there's no simpler way to put it. He went in there and square that battalion away in and made them from hopeless too hard core is, did the terms, did used. When you showed up the heat already been there for a while, so things were pretty solid at that place, they were there overdose, incredible effect, the fur sky. I met when I, when I got there was our battalion is for its name is Mario Talk Ohashi. He was actually A national guard guy from boy you is about six tour, since three big japanese You not like me. Tom was hack worth Where did you just you made? It sound, reduce the talking about his neck? Was he like a bakery in pictures? He always looks pretty lean and and not very physically large. While when eyes I mean, is here stout early, I mean you wasn't. He was a real huge wasn't for real tall by just two

He carried and sell. That's what I always in Vienna and was. He was just a guy that if you walk away guy but that no, how Thomas acrimony sixty I find out, is whatever it enters, and not only that, but I'll tell you he went I became a journal later on in life in and he came to one of my every Every year I used to have a leadership conference. For my my officers and my and see oh said I would invite speakers to come to an Hepworth came to one of my conferences and then he visited me in Chicago when he was doing Bosnia who saw about face sport right. And so he invited me and my wife and kids to have dinner with him one night he said bring your kids, you know some guys say not just you bring your wife or whatever

like us, were fairly young. Diadem were really under maybe eight or nine that time, and my wife and kids actually comment about how soft spoken Hepworth was. He wasn't a blustery guy Yeah among guys yeah, but you know in them in public women in family members. He was. He was a gentleman which kind of surprise my wife is, I told him all about so vital. That's that's how he was and and so the the battalion you show up it's just the guys are really on board with what's goin on all absolutely because I got there. Probably three weeks before are famous for

It was really a battle on twenty two May, where we decimated VC training, battalion, basically I mean, I remember, being at the talk, you know, when he's planning, while this half head this innate com Let's get you smell out. The enemy, even with all the intelligence. We get all this stuff. You know he was. Will, the figure out what they were doing, and so he set us up for that night, but tat to you. But you're saying by the time I got their talk, how she was the first game that ok, he was really is a strong street. You know he was yes for, and so he got all the occur, for further battalion and he got it whatever we had to get it. You know, and then I meet the next sky. Meat is another. Penny commander in the guy was like six three or something

Yes, I'm seeing a pattern here right now: I've five with five, ok, but here's a The thing about this one of the other company commanders. His name was done Meyer and by the way hackers head. This The cool way of of thought using words in terms entitles that life, our companies were not alpha. Bravo Charlie, dealt They were alert battle, clean, more and dagger in the claim. Or company commander was a guy. Name it down admirers Don Myers was my roommate in college, at the universities, all noise and we both infantry, are ROTC Guy right, and then later he was he was with the hundred and first and he was wounded city shook them to Fitzsimons, and then they assigned him the Fort Louis, which was were half worth, and I were so

sound and I were roommates again for Louis Washington. Ok, so then half where ships to vietnam- and he takes Myers with him, ok, so no Myers by the way, is six point three right. If bananas nickname was lank when he and I were in colleges roommates, it was like mutton jerk, you know, and I wasn't there tall guy and so anyway, but as you as you can understand, to have I commanded battled company and he commanded claymore company and I knew we were gonna run into any cram it he would. He would be, therefore- me and he knew I would be there for him. And that was that was just we always really good

yeah, that the whole thing with names is something that I completely ripped off from hack worth when I was a task to commander our task, and it was called weather, is alpha. Although and Charlie, and I had Bravo and immediately when I took it over a change. The name from Bravo the browser That's was that change. The attitude of people really does, while also, as you know, all early units have have greetings and counter sites right. So for the hard core. Are. Our motto was hard core. We condo. That was what the red was countersign which I cannot say totally was no effing slack. Okay now, but I'll tell you Dover guy. I saw this eye witnesses. There were were wounded on stretchers and hack. Wish would walk up to Indeed salute him and say: Harcourt Condo, what kind of missions did you do when you showed up there

so you're do take over your company commander yeah them they were. They were problem David really recon search search destroyed, not really destroy, but certain over seeking out the v c, but as it got closer to we know we were leaving right because President Nixon, it had said that you know so. I just got be a weakened. The area make sure they weren't there. If they were there, we get into fire vice with didn't happen very often, this most mostly booby traps and things in a basically that was a cause. It You know, there's smart, they knew we were leaving. So why don't we get into contact you're leaving? Are you sure you show me some pictures earlier you're, pretty miss picture that got published its

someone we're your art, YO had just been wounded. What was the story on that yeah? This is one of our operations and there is a booby trap in and he was here sucking just wooed from it. Then I got a little shrapnel, not a lot in the sickly I called in America, Kaliko Helicopter. In the helicopter came in unbeknownst to us. There was a you fear, photographer under helicopter and he snapped a picture of, my guys carrying my wounded Archie O on a structure towards the helicopter, in that came like the? U P, I picture for the day the one around the world beyond the Vietnam Photograph and even though it existed until three later of his out, I was off a bath. Duty of was reading on the news and will report magazine in the picture was like three inches by Four inches in the magazine, as all my soldiers I saw it now said he,

so. I was in the pictures, I'm kind of in the picture, so you can see me so I got the photo from I get asked a lot on that I don't have any experience with is, what it was like having after these. As you know, I was in, although all voluntary military and then on top of that, you know the unit I worked with. We were all volunteered again. You know you volunteered to come in the new volunteer again to try being the seal teams and people ask what it like working with draft these now pack words opinion was draft. These were good because in care about their career and if they thought something was wrong. They hey. This is crap. We don't want to do that or hey you're, not telling the truth to us, and so he thought it was good and kept the army in check but they're still had to be some leadership differences in dealing with an end later in your career. Obviously, you started working with the all volunteer army. What did you notice about? The draft ease that,

You learn from well the draft these just like, It doesn't make any difference here: draft ease or for volunteers. Depends on the leadership, You no doubt we span the good leadership in the the These were like anyone else once you're in the position you're going to do the best you can especially when you in Colombia could you want to survive in that time it gets to be a binding thing. You know, you're, not there. Hiding for liberty and justice in the american way, you're fighting for the guy to the right of you in the guise of TED elected, you basically casual everyday living together. You dine together, you know in so it's it's a function of leadership and a draft ease were great guys. I mean I served with them anywhere ET, I didn't even know who history and I didn't care. I didn't ask you know whether their draft- these are volunteers, although

the vast majority of our guys redraft ease in the fourth thirty, the 39th tomorrow. And that's what was so cool water that half we could take their battalion turn around and when I heard stories because I came later on, you know, but he had a price on his head initially a price on his head from his own guys, you're Goin lawyer, but nobody had to go, needs to step up and claim. No plainly pro so yeah I've one of the things he talks about and again I've talked about this. On other podcast but you know when he showed up everyone had whatever they had guitars and they had radios and they had. Big hammocks for themselves and and he got there instead. Ok, anything that you can't carry on your back, he's gonna, be in the middle of our base. Tomorrow morning's get shipped out on helicopters, so people went crazy. Are you kidding me on not only that it already did I'm sure you know this, but he took away I say, meals, I did not know that or I don't remember it because they were so they were.

So how to say this nicely they we're, not disciplined okay. They had lousy leadership before that and hackers basically said you know you guys soldiers, said: I'm gonna keep you alive, you know, but you're gonna have to soldier. So he actually two classes away. Initially he made them. China boots I mean you stop. It sounds crazy here you know, but he was getting their attention. You know and clean. Workmen semi. They would be, they were not clean, I mean how crises that they were cleaning their weapons at night time. There is night discipline Light discipline was almost non existent and crazy and half worth maiden soldier up, and

and the, but then what happened was they start the uses tactics and they found out that hey this works and we were not taking. Casualties like we did before were actually is lifting casualties that we weren't doing before, and then he started to give stuff back at all. No one else he did. He took away beer. There was like water The average temperature is like ninety five degrees, you're. All in all there. It was like three point: two: whatever the beer was you, nobody took that away initially to people thought he was not the actually there's a great coordinate about face it. Some guy right and home to his is a quote from a letter. Somebody wrote doubt, wrote you know my Newcomb, my new battalion commanders, crazy. I don't know, what's going to happen that little your letter regard home, it's interesting to me, so

I've. Seen this- and I am sure you ve seen in in your career obscene the business world, I'm sure you seen the business world and in the military guys that go so far in that direction. Being so hard core and over the top that they break their guys and people do actually don't like them and they don't wanna serve them and they don't want to do good job because they're they're there, focused on stop. It doesn't really matter we're just. He seemed to have this ability to balance it's so well between being hard core and yet, at the same time everybody knows that he's take care of many loves him yeah that was the main thing because they knew that there exist there. When a live under his command. If they followed what he said, and there would be successful, two don't forget that success, red success,

and so the hard core is, as they captain progressing became prouder and prouder. You know the guys you wish ass, though a unit did, though nobody wanted to reckon with that's how it works, but had lead by example. I can't I just can't emphasise that enough. And I have my leadership mantra, which should and I'm a simple guys. I boil boil things down simply in the three words example carrying Alice and you gotta led by personal example. It's not you don't do I say, but do what I do and carrying MR care for your soldiers. And you know carrying means, especially in combat keeping them alive. That's all you care for an you train, tough.

You know I half worth always mention that you know the hardy. You train, you know the better, the dough performing combat effect, sometimes easier and combat than some the training did he make them go through in and finally is balance. Specially leaders non talking the leaders right and I only told my leaders that you ve gotta meet a balance between your professional, military job and your family I used to tell my guys you're, not doing many good. If you go into a divorce, you know too, many guys. It's easy when you get promoted to get kind of caught up in the perks in India, responsibility. You know you work harder to be, and then went. What do you? Do you ignore your family and then things fall apart in sight. I warn my my soldiers

I always said you know, maintain that balance, and I tried to do that not only personally but take the My soul, when we were mobilized, for example, came, might division. Now this was not. We didn't deploy overseas. We were a training division more time. Mission was the army reserves by the way was the only service it had this. We we had reservist, whose wartime mission was to take over the training of the recruits at the active duty stations, which would then release those active duty soldiers to go join for made a lot of sense, so so When that happens? I went to my they cannot understand. This is like the ladys rubbing, ok, Ed. I went to my staff and I said I want

a twenty four hour, eight hundred number from my family support programme. I want my soldiers to know and I want their spouses to know that while there are deployed If there is any problems, they can count on us and I wanted to be twenty four seven men and they set general. Would you have to understand those? These eight hundred nurse were pretty expensive. And and they said you don't never want us to be expensive number to you know twenty four slash, seven, you know, and I said make it happen, I died. The I wondered my soldiers were deployed to worry about with their families right The nun what I did is, I knew I had two stars stationary. You know what is a major general in a little notes. You know they're, not even half by eleven their little known things,

I told my staff. I want to send a personally Lee note to every spouse or significant other of deployed soldier Division and I'm on a note to go to their employer cuz. You have to understand these are reservist right. Okay, so I had one thousand five hundred soldiers mobilize right. So this is three thousand letters that I'm gonna sign. You know purse Today, one in needed an auto autopilot. In abiding by computer manufacturers. Signature. I said no way these are. These are gone. You know site. I did that and what happened was I wish I had a cousin whose husband was a steel seal salesman, Ok and she calls me one day. She said your number not happen. My husband, he was making, I call on this company in Indiana Gay,

and on the wall was one of my letters burned to death, He saw my name on it. You know so carry fear carrying imbalance is important there. You know You talked about that their operation, that was so well, planned and so well executed, and you talked about a hack, warts sort. Six cents, instinct. And then you know, I've heard you talk and some other interviews about a situation in Europe. That was that you describe as really sort of impacting ear. Your mental state and To me, when I heard you talk about it, it seemed to be almost a turning point mentally psychologically for you- and I had

with you over running a position in and you end up with some some yeah. I did I didn't realize the impact of dead incident until many many years later, but in order for to explain that I have to talk about something called moral injury which is in when these so called invisible wounds of war A lot of people are familiar with post, traumatic stress disorder. A lot of people are aware of traumatic, brain injury, but when you ask them if they could describe- The invisible wound of war called moral injury, very few people are are knowledgeable how long is that term been used there is a a psychiatrist said to be a doctor, Jonathan Shea, who basically coin that phrase in two thousand and nine So it's been around for a while and now

starting really pick up steam in research because of its significance in contributing to the high suicide rate among veterans the concept is it and when I go wrong, I give presentations and, and I tell people, the concept is so intuitive you'll get it in thirty seconds case here. This fund? The time you're born until you're eighteen years old, you develop a personal moral code. Sense of right or wrong That could come from your family, your religion, community, friends, whatever, And then you join the military, and you learn a warrior code. The warrior Cogia superimposed on your personal moral code and, in fact, transform

Is it somewhat, then you might have to participate in activities or operations that violate your personal moral code such as killing. You don't have to be the person that pulls the trigger. You could be a witness or you could feel that you should have prevented or you could be in a unity follows another unit and you see the inner and civilians have been killed or you here the body parts at that time you sustain the so called it Visible wound of war called moral injury. It's not a physical wound. You can't see it. But in military operations were constantly moving you're going In point eight point: bead appoint, see you don't have time to stop and reflect on this stuff. So what do you do? You bury it. And it becomes unresolved grief. Shame in what happens is you come back to the states

and let's say you leave the military or you're in the National Guard or reserves, and you come back to a community. Anywhere in the country that doesn't understand what you ve been through, and it boils up to the surface unless you have a strong coping mechanism for that bad stuff happens, anger guilt, depression, suicide. And the suicide rate among veterans today's epidemic. I mean the Ba its anywhere from twenty to twenty two veterans. Per day are dying by suicide. In that, frankly, is under reported. It's really higher than that, because you got veterans who are dying by suicide is not reported.

Suicide though drive their motorcycle or car into a tree or viaduct, and it's a vehicular accident or unfortunately there something called suicide by cop, where they forced the law enforcement officers to take legal action and so what's the what's, the implication of all that we lose more veterans the suicide in a year than all the combat deaths since nine slash eleven. That's how your man and we believe Moral Landry is a major contributing factor to that and military aunt Rachel say our organization. We feel that the main approach to Oil injury is not a medical doctor with prescription drugs, its debt forgiveness and grace of a moral authority and the counselling of clergy and sensitive therapist and the support of a community.

Offering hope and help it. So now getting back to an incident that that you asked me about jungle outside your company commander battle company, we just over run by a common position and killed, numerous enemy in I literally heads three dead body sent my feet: ok, All the time a unit is most vulnerable is right after a victory. It just a nature to let your guard down breathest. Relief. Why the guy in charge. I know that So I'm on my radio, unknown, kicking wherein and taking names. I'm telling my platoon leaders we organize your units. Redistributing ammunition, take care of your will. Did look for enemy avenues of approach for a counter attack right. And in the middle of all that stuff, gonna stopped and I looked at the three dead bodies at my feet.

I realise that something had here, Then tell me something, pardon my heart, only moments earlier these were alive human beings. They had families, they had emotions, they had loved ones. They were fighting for something as important to them. Is ours fighting for and I was in their backyard and then I remember Jesus his sermon and the we told us to pray for our enemies. So in the midst of all this stuff going on, I said a prayer for the three via Kong, and I know I was praying for myself as much as I was praying for them no yeah. I did have a big ceremony get on my hands and knees any of that stuff. You know this all took about forty five seconds, but it's something that was seared in my heart and mind the rest of my life, and now that I know about moral injury and k, which I didn't know at that time,

I realise that I was one in a million who was able to address my moral injury at the time it happened and united When I came back from Vietnam, I had seen a lot of my comrades heavy nightmares. Having flashbacks you know, nowadays, changes in, I frankly ask myself how come I'm not going through there? and at the time I answer always was my faith in my wife, my wonderful wife of now forty six years, who is an angel I've been so blest having her for a wife. So that was my answer. Ok, but now, since I've been dealing with

till you reach USA, and this issue of moral injury. I realise that my answer was really lacking K. There were two other things. One was that incident in Vietnam that I just mentioned to you, but the other thing which I now realise is when I came back with Vietnam, I joined the reserves. Ok and I was able to maintain my sense of purpose of being in a unit with other people who share the same values that I did of patriotism of dedication, selfless service which a lot of veterans when they come back. They just want to cut ties totally and they a lot of them drift cuz. They they don't have that sense of purpose. They don't have the camaraderie. They don't have. The bonding. Your I had that with the new service, especially you know in Vienna,

with Vietnam and all the best. If we had to take from the public, you know I mean you, don't believe this Why? I know you know this, but when we can, Vietnam, we were told not to wear uniforms in public minutes. I'll bet it was crazy. You know guys war wicks. Then people would know they had short haircuts, you know because they could pick em. All this is being military. So, my being in the reserves help me, you know maintain that One of the things that I tell guys is: very similar to what you just said. You know I tell guys you got to find a new mission when you get done when you get done with the military going to find a new mission and if you can stay in the reserves, obviously that that gives you that. But if you don't do that well, then you got to find. What are you going to do what you going to step out there? become a great dad. Are you going to build a business? Are you going to work for a company in and do a great job? You got to find a new mission and I thought I find the guys that I've seen that,

that have real problems. It's because they they got out didn't know then have any direction to go into our What does to a little but deeper so you're in that situation, where you see these guys and an end for the first time you you kind of look down on him and see them as people as well as other human beings. Is it you know, is it the fact that you, when you, when you set a prayer for them and for yourself kind of gotten a thought of when you hear about, like native Americans, hunting and You know they they think they know when that when they get a kill, thou think that little mother nature and in thank for the sacrifice, was it that hyper thing where you said: ok, you know what were fighting I'm. Was doing my job. You guys we're doing your job and

I hope you have peace now, who was it that type of thing s? Absolutely, because you know what happens? Is you forget that their there, their human you know, you got all these all these names that you call them but I really respected the vc our enemy, you and that's it. That's the other thing. You can't under estimate, your enemy, you always have to respect them, You have me you don't have to agree with them, but you you have to respect their abilities because once you loose tracker that you can really get screwed- and Basically, I ll give you some examples when we hear A battle on twenty two may ok, I wasn't Cnc helicopter with, and I guess I should described that battle a little bit more. Sheer listeners where we're talking about

the hard core battalion in when we surround this? Is this BC? Training battalion really is what it was and we annihilated basically therein they were encircled and we just Poland who never strikes naval, fire. You know we were just taken, then half worth head totally encircle and so on. Never forget us in the whole helicopter with him, and he basically said move. We got it First, we get a radio message from one of our companies might have been an alert company and they said we just had a contact. You know we killed three. We can't you, for weapons we captured a guy or whatever and their headed in this direction. Okay, so hackers with turned to me and say: look at sea, given fifteen minutes workin here from battle company fifteen minutes later federal company comes

we just have to contact. You know in their head, and so this happened all day. I saw this I was with him than the helicopter in, but there was one these. We were flying Euro Canal in is mortally wounded. You could see the guy was dying. Basically, he took his aching. Forty seven any threw it into the canal. Ok and the reason he did there is he dinner minors to get that weapon because part of the body because I was u matched how many weapons you if a Univee report- and they said what we killed twenty- we got one weapon. You kindness, wait a second you know so and I saw that I knew that this guy, you know we were up against a top enemy. You know in and done so so you oughta respect your enemy,

I want to pull some before we move. Pastor, Vietnam and hack want to pull some stuff out of about face just a kind of here. You hear you your thoughts on it? I'm gonna start off with. One that you ve talked about a little bit, but here we go. This is from about faced by hack worse- and this is a quote from someone votes? had had the knack of being able to size people up very quickly. Almost instantaneously. And I'd, say, ninety nine percent of the time he was right. He could look a person and in his vernacular the guy was either a stud or he wasn't. There was no between. If he was a stud, could find a way to get him. And he would not take no from people if you wanted them because he wanted a winning team and if a person- didn't want to go with him. Then Immediately, the guy wasn't a stud you see, because anybody who knew hack or came

The contact with him really wanted to be with him after he known him for a while, and that's a quote from Brigman your general James Age, look, I'm a which is you have your quoted in the book and you ve talked now that a little bit and He just how he must have extremely magnetic personality for you to say that if you spend time with him, you want to be with him our absolute and an he I used to say he had the MIDAS touch everything the guy tat, just whether it was in the military, whether always in business, whether was with women and this guy. You know with a start in and evil, and but he was, he was so a sensitive guy I'll, never forget when you I tell people he wasn't them. Small guy, that I knew, but he was the most ethical officer

I ever serve with what I mean by that. Is he never did anything for personal gain. He always did things for the unit for the soldiers. Ok, but did he have fares and things like that yet unused to tell me said: move you know I should have never married, because my love is the army units, he he. Basically he turned on the war college. He could have gone to the work which he turned it down: because he said he I want another battalion in Vietnam, you know any he would have been a general there's no question about it had had he not stood up you know when he was no six and in the in your head, I think he was the youngest of six at that time in the army, but he was a guy who who was? He was sensitive though, and he took her. He did take care of his family effect. I can say this now because,

United Statue limitations might be gone, but you know those days you weren't. You were unable to to take a lot of cash out of Vietnam. You know, and I basically, one day when he knew I going back home only and by the way he did everything they could to convince me to stay. To extend in Vietnam. Ok, he was. He had moved down to be the senior advisor for thee, Arvin, airborne division, which is really the palace scarred around cyber. And he knew all my hot buttons you have to understand. I was a bachelor guy this time in. And the air borne the Vietnamese Airborne war special fatigues. They were like Tiber fatigue and they had read berets. You know about this, this young stud guy, like you, once and he said. Look he said:

You come down here and I'll make you d want adviser that that's the admin guy me said, but when you come down if you're buys, or with the vietnamese airborne you get jump pay you also s extra money right it s. Said and I'll give you to our in you think, because he knew I want to go to Japan and see my voters. So in six months, give you two our right guys you know he's trying to move the Euro, the sun and the moon to get me to extend six months in- and I said, Sir. I appreciated that I had some close calls and I figured the next one. It happened locally, I'm a written that bullet would have Moquin I'm a written on it, and I said no, I appreciate it, but I'm I'm auditor, seven Eliza are you're talking about the way he was

you know so so pro army and yet. He rebelled against the army away an ear ears of another thing from the book he says what a mistake: it was to listen to the generals of corporate h Q, who were bright only in zero defect terms and so far from the cutting edge expected. Nothing less, It was amongst the biggest mistakes of the war, the power petitions, only listen to these generals and generals only listened to themselves. She People asked frontline soldiers the only ones who really knew could you guys- Could you could you pretty close them? Could you sense that His frustration with the army. Did he talk about it with you? Did he? How did he treat

yeah, that's a very hard thing for for a leader to do. If you, if you're senior leadership is telling you to do stuff that doesn't make sense or you, know, hey we can get it done and we're gonna do it it's a hard line to walk to say: look. We support Jane Commandest. Whether tomes do I want to spend in a positive way, everyone's gonna think that we're doing it for the right reasons, because if I say hey look move hears what I wanted to do in its its dumb, but we're getting told to do anyway. That's not a good way to lead, so he wins so he would he would support the chain and ere you he would. He would presented in the way in which you known you talk about the mission, and he would make sure that he would accomplish the mission, but he would do his way. You know you know before he's battlefield expediency has so we did all the time you need screw at what

you're, whether they gonna do send this to Vietnam were already there. You know. So you know we just did what we had to do, and I mean the stupid rules of engagement. Do we had you know where you deaf to get up. Voltaire fire on people, even though your receiving fire you going in just nutty stuff. You know, and we just say. We're going to do what we have to do it s, what we did here's what he up when he look over there, battalion. The following day took over the battalion from Lieutenant Colonel Franklin, a hard or in a parade field exchange of command in the middle of the Mekong Delta. Why kind of war, have I got myself into? I wondered Prickly starts general user having flown in for the occasion in his polished choppers, there was,

brass, two and photographers Todd refers the american flag, the battalion collars, which were ceremoniously passed on to me and all of this before the scrounge. Yes, most spiritless assembly of soldiers. I had ever seen incredibly, none of the generals or colonels seem to notice the slack condition of my new charges or there positions. From the outset. I realise that to make this unit effective military force it after implement about a thousand changes. So I figured we'd start with five day little things basic things like where you're steel pot and cleaning carrier rifle at all times and ammunition will not be worn, poncho, vs style, my four first order was that darkness that darkness the fire support base perimeter would pull back three hundred meters, the troops instantly began to grumble about this, but it was extra order. That really begin the mutinous feeling within my hard luck. Outfit anything

You can't carry twenty four hours. A day is gone in the next chopped, chopper, good, bye, tents and costs. And rock socks and food dockers. You like towards it more important to be respected as it more important to, and I actually had a guy asked me this question of the day. Is it more important to win wasn't there to have them. Like me,. Again? We we already too about this, this comes up a lot from a leadership perspective. Do you Is it more important to be like doors at more import to be respected as it more important to, and I actually had a guy asked me this question of the day? Is it more important to win or to be liked,

and I said: well, those two things are mutually exclusive at all: right, you're, absolutely correct and they're, not mutually exclusive. You know if you demonstrate to your soldiers that you care for them professionally. That's you'll be like there's no question because they know that you're there for them. And you know you don't, as has been said there, you know you not dare to win. A popularity contest, you know is not there to be politically correct either to accomplish your mission, but also make sure that your guys come back and I think I'm starting to tie together something clearly in my head right now and that, as you know, you're you're number to rule of leadership which is correct and I think, if you can, if you care about your people, and they see that you care about them- that trumps, the

that you want them to do things the right way, Catherine, you want to do things right ways. Could you care about him and is going to keep alive the maiden, you successful, yeah Epps absolutely unites I was a young officer, I well, at that time, when I was a company can, after half worth left, we headed nother battalion commander come in right in he rode on my or we are all my career. I had MAX all really good stuff, but this one. He wrote that and I'll take this any day the week he said I was to concern for my troops. Sometimes while- and I said ok I'll- take that well, that's that's interesting.

Perspective, and you know this is one of those dichotomy says? Well being as one of the hardest things about being a leader is obviously you care about your men so much, and yet you are they do things you are going to put them in situations that it's gonna put their lives at risks at risk, and that is. That is something that leader has to release military leaders have to. We to find a way to get a handle on that Could you love your guys and you to take care of him you do have to do your mission in that It's one the hardest things about balance. Talking about the morality of war a little bit. This was a big again. This is why the story than I opened up, whether you could see that that where had to do with with. Having moral dilemmas and having guilt, because

worth gave a guy in order in the guy followed the order, maybe not the way hack worth body was, but the moral injury that he got from that he's had lasted his whole life of giving an order, and somebody does something you didn't expect to do in the end up getting killed one of his guys on his guys that he loved gets killed because of the way he let Another kind of moral situation going back to the book. Their flying around there. On a mission we went down to about one hundred feet the sun, ex were still running, but this closer inspection confirmed my initial feeling. They were just eight kids. No older than thirteen or fourteen, simply scared shitless, as they ran looking for cover carrying neither weapons nor military equipment. No, I told the pie but I dont give you permission to fire. Put an infantry insert on them. I try

Did the platoon leader whose men were aboard the four slicks where the land with ships covering the petunia the ground, they immediately received small arms fire and took a couple of wounded. The little kids were, as my savvy pilot had said from the outset, Vietcong. It was a major lesson learned from me, but one impossible to edge in stone? I a couple of men wounded, who would not have been if just said to blow those kids away, but I couldn't say blown away because they appeared on armed. Yes, they were vc, but could just as well have been kids ditching school who happen to get caught in the crossfire. Anything was possible. And I suddenly realized it would not be easy. This dealt a war.

It wasn't easy to tell the good guys and the bad guys anywhere in South Vietnam, but here in the delta it was damn near impossible. Get very similar to what my is dealt with over the was very hard to tell whose good and who is bad and the enemy knew they could just put the drop the weapon and walk away, and now they were considered innocent, even though twenty seconds prior to that they were shooting. How did you keep your men from big coming so careless that they were just gonna start. Kids, because they suspected they were VC. How hard did you have to keep control of that? Well, I My response to that is the american soldier. Innately is ethical. It's it's

in our culture, not to shoot women and children now guys you know if there you know that there might be something else but we and we do not shoot civilians? Just you work who are Aurora work. With. You know we run across them just because there are there and we want to take revenge. We Do that is an army generally speaking, there are times when people lose it, your stand it that's! That's! The stress of war this happened in all wars. I dont condone it, but I can understand in so damn your question. We really didn't have to our guys were pretty professional in another.

Proud producer with them. I didn't they didn't. I didn't see any of that this just tells me once again it's about leadership. It make us here, you can see hack, clearly lean towards making sure he's doing the right thing, even though he's a guy that loves his troops and wants to take care of me still leans, towards doing the right thing it and from what you're saying that filtered all the way through the chain of command, and we we an in depth. Look I'm actually done to podcast. Concerning the meal I massacre and what happened there, and it was just so clear that the leadership was complete. At fault and the way that they lead those troops and it was You weren't, when I went through to try and pull something positive out of the meal I massacre, the positive message that I got from it was that

It was what it was one officer who had flown use Thompson. I believe his name was but he'd flown over he'd seen what was happening. He flew back to base told the the senior leadership. This is what's goin on the ground, the senior leadership radioed into the field and say stop killing people and They literally instantly stopped. They stop the massacre just because a leader stepped up and said: stop so good leadership completely changed. The situation as it was on going in Clearly if there had been a better leader on the ground that was leading in the right way, it never would have even started so You can see here from what hack saying the way he led and the way he treated. Unknown your people and in the way that was carried out through the whole battalion. That's another amazing testing to good leadership in and one thing about me lie- which I tell people is that it was the exception, approved the rule that the United States-

its military- that that was an exception lawyer nor do the rule in our military. Is we don't we don't do that? An approved it every night I didn't see There were other armies there who were more ruthless like the like the rocks, the rocks were not there. The republic of They were not there. The win, the hearts and minds of the people. They were there to win the war. So if they were, go by a village in they were fired upon. They destroyed village in half well, nobody fired on the rocks, win pack worth now, get outta here wounded in the eighth time yeah. Well, you know what I thought you were getting to that when you read that one cool, but wait, and I wasn't there

money when he got to see purple heart, but I know the story in and basically there were guys who in bad shape and he land Sea Cnc in the middle of that that might have been it. Then maybe you they landed in the middle of a fire fight. Her hat did He ordered the pilot that take them now and he does put the word. Guys into the sea and sea while the since he is in that book. There's no room for heck, so he's and on this goods and they take off and he gets it in the late, and that was a purple heart. Why, after that, he could tell the guys in the battalion. I want you to walk this wall of fire and the response a word he wants to go. You know he lead by example. But is out what caused the army. You say: ok, we're gonna, do they.

Did they pull him from the battalion at that point, when he got his eighty pretty much stellar steavens it cause Willie's. If you got three purple heart, she went home with us it was at the deal. I don't know. I only had one. I have no idea about eight they base Chloe said you know we can't afford to lose you fifty in a few get killed. I mean that's it it just the morale and you know it so you're out of your order there in the field. Okay, so he went up to play, could become the deputy. He was the geese three core advisor for two core: ok, which was the central highlands. And when my company was pulled out of Vietnam and every few years ago I said: hey I'm gonna stay here. I called and I said, Sir, you know I don't! I don't really want to go back and you use me. I had orders and next day to go to flee.

And then you would have to play grew, and you start you guys we're doing advising for the flowers and with yes, we worthy. We were the MAC, be that's a military use. Come in Vietnam. People in I had their way. A close call that I had when This was another moral injury thing by the way which I really had really varied, had not worthy Sancho, a lot about it, but we will. We had an inspection team that went out on the special forces camps under a border of Cambodia and Laos.

Vietnam- and you had please your ring Ben her doktor in the central highlands, and so we would fly entities camps and there were three people on this inspection team. So to speak as the deputy deputy court, who was an in six a full colonel you'll big deal, there was a command sergeant, major highest ranking enlisted adviser also of big deal and almost a young captain. Ok carrying everybody's bags, Notetaker happened. So should we land on the special forces camp in we? under attack and sergeant major is killed and he was maybe twenty metres away from me. It was a rocket and it wishes he was wrong place. You know could have been me if I was you. If it come

in the other direction, while the backside of that story is that he was schedule to go on our inner the next day to Hawaii to meet his waiting wife to celebrate their twenty fifth wedding anniversary gay. Now I wish I was just a young captain, but I ought ranked him ok, I could have ordered him not to go on there. That mission. Why risk it in oak is he he was gonna meet his wife the next day. I didn't do that UK and I I thought about them: in terms of survivor guilt and all that it was said that something that come up in my by studying this moral injury stuff at this point did you

So now you workin with hack worth directly and Are you start in a sense, his frustration about the war at all yeah, little bit yet well, no more than a little bit, because the the the Geese three for the cor was fairly corrupt, a guy in a hacker. It was very frustrated with that in that's why he loved. Actually, it's backtrack: aye aye yeah he he was moved down to the vietnamese airborne is he really was not happy? I think he might have been moved. I never really got the story on that. Why you went down there and now at this point. What year, you think it about your career, your life, all I'd already cited of his resigning. When I got back states and what made you, what

major lean in that direction. Cause I mean you did more years and J R T see than anyone have read my for a limited already see it had all that military stuff. Now you got your combat torn Vietnam under what what what tilted you in the other direction. Felt the army was going in the wrong direction. When it came to leadership, I thought that they were looking for managers and not commanders. I was in some positions during my career, I had access to officer, efficiency reports. And I could see, were the ratings, of the senior officers that Lieutenant Colonel Battalion commanders word. The tendency was to give-

managers high ratings aries, irrespective of their command abilities in and then my personal career was, was not manage very well. Hepworth half worth wanted me to stay? He knew I was, I was thinking resigning. Back that's why you offered me the company goes you. He thought that experience might turn things around. You know and saw here I am still with Hackworth in the battalion right and he contacted his friends at the Pentagon and he said: listen you guys. We got a stud here and he's thinking of leaving You know show him some personal attention. We got a chance to save your. You told me this later ring, so I get this letter from

Pentagon, yeah I'm out in the middle of nowhere. You know, and I first letter they ever set, and they said dear Campden Moquin. We have reviewed your who will one file very carefully right in We believe you have promised for graduate school Only problem is, I already had my master, which means that they didn't really pay a lot adventured right there with you. I I showed the letter to Harry said here. You know I mean it this crazy younger put my career in the hands of these guys. Euro inept pretty well sealed it for me. So did you? Did you submit your resignation while you are stoned, Vietnam are to come home as soon as I came home I did, I wonder, finished at or in Vietnam, which I did and then I told the army and I'm gonna be out

here, you know in so they assigned me to Fort Sheridan Illinois right because I lived in Chicago. I finished. I have three months there and then I was done and then did you at what point he decided and stained. The reserves are immediately Dallas, never question ochre. I was coming doing twenty years turned out to be thirty two, but I you know I was committed to doing twenty, because, especially at that time, seventy seventy one, the reserve components have a lot of combat experience guys, and I felt that it was important that I try to help the reserves be ready based We and I had something of contribute. So that's why I join the reserves and then you start on your civilian career, now is well as

happened. There was I I work for a japanese importing and exporting company. It's collar trading company and it was the name of company- was myths SUI in companies. Were We know we used to have a saying that the sun never set on this Hui because they had offices in like a hundred and sixty five countries. Okay, and it was a very prestigious company. If anybody they had quote on Quote Mitsui men, you know if you were a Mitsui Guide, the big deal with their Harvard graduates would all go there. You know- and things like that- and I was at the Chicago Office and The problem was, I actually experienced reverse discrimination by their. When I me is that I had studied japanese history, political science and japanese

language a little bit at the University of Illinois K and I had a pretty good work ethic, okay and but they couldn't. It couldn't compute in their mind. They talk about the Japanese. All all the manager positions were japanese, like the branch manager, a vice President Kinnock, all that I had no opportunity to ever get to even to be a department manager in their company because they looked at me and they couldn't compute that I didn't speak Jeff blue okay, me: ok, so they're mine under village idiot, you know, even though I have my masters degree. Commanded, a cup he and combat I sign for ten million dollars worth of equipment. I had more research,

stability in life, and these guys will ever know you know, but they didn't get it data and understand it. So I did there for about five, you I mean I was treated well. I have no complaints, but you know I didn't expect any guarantees, but I had hoped I would have an opportunity need compete in when I saw that wasn't. Did that wasn't gonna happen I had a roommate you have I who was such a member of the Chicago Board, options, exchange and options trading which is starting at that time, and he was such a great visionary little, we ve got details, and so he an operation on the floor of the exchange, and he realized he needed get a handle on that and I'm pretty good with details, so he called mainly said Jim. I know you not happy

you know where your aunt? Would you want to come? Work with me and, and I said, hey wait. A SEC You know I don't have one day of finance, formal education, I didn't know the difference between stuck in a barn euro must fill us stock option. And he said, don't worry about it. I know your abilities, your good with math. You know this is not rocket scientist stuff and I said: ok I'll do it in that started out of thirty five, your career in financial services industry and came: a member, the New York Stock Exchange, the Chicago Board Options Exchange was very bless and became part owner of the company Oh that enabled me to devote all the time I did in the reserves that I did cause. I was part of the deal I mean what my friend, I said: listen if you want- to join you, I'm bringing the reserves with me and you have to understand. You know, I am called and gone and if I may,

Vizors I'm going to give it a hundred percent. You know and and he was he had gone through our see with me, so he was. He was an army officer, so he understood so. I was able to have a successful career. At the same time- and you moved up really quickly through the ranks in the reserves yeah I had I had the like, like I said before, Jack I had great at owes. Who made me look I had commanders who mentored me I was I was. Brigadier general at the age of forty two heads- was a major general. Three years later, I was the youngest journal in the army, the time so yeah I was. I was launched. I had great assignments, and so I was very bless them. My wife supporter me, through all this. Without her, I would not have been able to get the first base,

noticed you. You mentioned a couple times a general, William, Levine, yes, an end the impact that he had on you. He was a guy that landed a D day, Utah Beach and was one people had liberated Dachau and in world war. Two, yes- was there any signal Forget lesson learned that he passed on to you, the absolutely he he I think, he's personally responsible for that balance. Part of my leadership concept that I've developed my career, he really emphasise family and keep in mind when I joined the reserves. I didn't have a clue about the citizen soldier you'll those of us on active duty, what do we know about the garden reserves in their pressure? You know what they deal with Europe, people in the garden reserves have the balance three balls. At the same time right you, you ve, got your your family, you ve your civilian career, that puts

bread and butter and the table, and then you the reserves of the guard in which you know, and so your boy, seeing all that stuff in June. Levine. You remember, emphasised the family. He always made sure that we- were aware of the stresses on the family you know when we were gone I'll, never forget her. My career without fail. That's when the first would rate down. That's what we're here, a blizzard so my ninety five pound, wife with it the glass therein shovel the snow is, I wasn't. There our Sun J, whose will you know he basically was a rascal when he was young guy. My MIKE had to take him to the emergency room in the hospital like three times. I don't even know where three times a week- and I don't even know where that Iraq is, I wasn't home so you'll distresses.

And so he really drove their home, and I understood better the stresses the citizen soldier which are tremendous. You know least, when you're on active duty focused, you know, and you in a community where everybody He's gone through the same thing, so they are I understand you of this since the marriage states, they sure things they can help each other out, but reserves and guard the rest you go to a meeting one a month. You know in a measure and leadership, the that's about it, you know you don't have that you don't have the ban being at the community strength, that you do when you're on active duty. There were, and we got to remedy. It was the two to a National Guard unit out a Pennsylvanian reserve units at work ground than they had been there, for. I think they'd been there for fourteen months but boy they

outstanding soldiers, all of them. It was a real honoured it to work with a little bit and and get the turnover and great guys they you re. You ended up running training for awhile twenty one out of your twenty five years in the reserves. There that's that's a lot of training to run yeah. I was sad and once again I see you ve heard me say this before it's a good thing, basically The army was, the only service did really had a great process, were we had reserve units whose wartime mission was to take over the training centres. You know like the great lakes Mabel Training Centre, you know, but the we didn't have that the air force didn't have that the Marines did him that we had reserve units that their wartime mission was to go to Fort Benny. For

Although my divisions mission was to go to Fort Benny and take over, training of the infantry officers and be kreutz, not officers to be Kreutz Edward many so that the active duty soldiers that were already there who are up to speed up and everything you know could go join fighting units? Basically, so, though, it doubles the mission right. So I join when I came off their duty. I join the eighty five training division in Chicago and there was an infantry training division at the time and I was with them for eighteen years and I commanded conquered at company level, battalion level Brigade, Lovell analyses system, vision commander and every year we would go on annual training to a active duty, training for and we take over the training of their recruits. So I did it at dicks. I did it

at Fort Bliss. I did it at Ford, Ward and then, finally, with the seventieth, I did it at Fort Veni and so then what happened was I I was the commander of the seventieth division. La Bony, Michigan and Desert storm came ok and I knew we were going to be mobilized. In. Writing was on the wall. Ok, so I put together a list of I had sixteen subordinate units in my desire. Three brigades, no training command and other things, and so I made a list of ones. Do sixty and I prioritize them. Ok and and it was a mixture of readiness and leadership yeah, that's how I prioritized them. Then. I also had to be sensitive to

I had units in Indiana and Michigan Cycling, take all the Michigan units and leave out he had guy that wouldn't have been fair because everybody wanted be mobilized. Ok, yeah you stand. This is this is when this would be the first time. Ok, then we ve been practised. For like twenty five year old you're ready for game day. Yes, other questions balloon, went up with people show up you know and so sire this list- and I went to tree, which was our higher headquarters at Fort Monroe Virginia and I said, listen, here's my list, here's my division, ok I said Eustace List,

if you're going to mobilise my division or any part of my division, do it in disorder and don't screw with this. This is the best way. This is the best way my division will serve. You know the army did they ply oh yeah, they were. The light is ass. I was the only division commander that is done there, so they went up the other loved division. Commanders and hey hey, say we need some Louis. You know in the end. They did exactly what I told them, the Ducas they half of my division, so they just went right down the list, ninety eight or nine and now is it. Now, you ended up having kind of a running at the end of your career. You I had said

You know it is because of half worth you know about face in and in the first one was side. I went on the opera when pressure and basically my mom was still alive at that time, used to watch Oprah during the day and upper beside the Chicago Rang answer, and then she and she used to an I didn't notice contained ever watched it, but she used to announce ahead of time, subjects that she was going to cover and if anybody new anyone who were experts, in that area of letter? No, you know so she could get them so she decided. This is in the late eighties. Ok now put your son

back at that time when the economy was not doing so hot and the japanese economy was doing real good. You know because their computers, their automobiles, their televisions and so people were blaming the Japanese about our poor economic situation and it was called Japan bashing. So in fact there was a chinese guy's name as Victor Chan who was killed in Detroit by some automobile workers with baseball bat because they thought he was to happen ease. It was actually chinese. Ok, so open decided to have a show about Japan bashing. So she said. If anybody knows anyone here in the japanese american community to where it might be a good you don't personal,

this please. Let me know when my mom saw that and she said you need to get on the shelf. You know so I tried calling I couldn't get. You know how this is he I couldn't get through whatever. Why have a very I had at that time, a very influential journalists in Chicago his name was earth cups in it who had a very famous, it's called cups column. He used to interview president's kings and queens political people. You know at in Chicago at a restaurant, and so so I called cup. I said, hey CUP, you know I'm trying to get through in this thing with opera in and he said I ll see what I can do. Two hours later, I got a call from the executive producer. The show any says I understand that you rode a general in the army, s again in the army reserves and

that is the highest ranking asian American than our armed forces. Today- and I said yeah that's right and he said well and a night of trying to figure out where the guy was going right. Will you shine to see if I could to come and work at the same time so once he figured, I could do that. He said you know we like happy on the show. Okay, so I said fine when is it tomorrow? Okay, so I said: okay, I'm in so I called my at that time. I was working for a New York Stock Exchange firm, and I called the headquarters in New York is at hand needed they often they gave it to me, and then I called the chief of Army Reserves office could keep in mind to start general right, and I said I m goin on your prosciutto. You know and what's the subject Wallace, objectives, Japan, bashing, but I'm being invited cause. You know I am I making japanese American and our army,

and I'm gonna, where my uniform. So I get a call back. Ok, funded the chief of public affairs of the army, but he's a one star: ok Emma to start, so he can and he said, done understand. You're gonna be on your crucial yeah thrice. What's the subject? Japan bashing? Oh it's not about the army! No, it's not about the military! it all, but I'm being invited to set the highest ranking. Japanese American in the army. No, it's your whole military, being an a at the time and he said well then We don't want you to wear your uniform, ok and, I said, listen. I take my responsibility very seriously as a role model for minorities. This is a great opportunity to

let people know that we have equal opportunity and our armed forces. I dont see this as it is a as a possibility to fail. I see this as an opportunity to succeed and I- and I just said I you- I don't- really have a lot of time to discuss. It was gonna be next day right, so I said, is is an order. You know from the secretary or from the cheat. I don't care, you know. Whoever is above me is this an order, and he said why can't tell you it's in order, and I said well In that case, thank you very much for calling me. You know. I appreciate what you said are taken at all in under consideration. Bottom line, I'm wearing my uniform, and that was the end of it. Ok, so he

rights. A memorandum for record that to the chief of staff in the army that went into my file. That said, you know, I spoke to general move beyond. I told him. It was your above. His paid Re Lovell said he might get in with you know, things that were not a hand and all that happened. He basically told me that he was going to wear his uniform. So so I go on the show. Ok, and I'm ready, I do my homework. Ok and we come back from commercial breakdown. Offers starts out by saying and today we have with us Major General Jim Rogliano, the highest ranking asian american japanese American in our military today camera and I'm going to see. They're in the civilian suit, what kind of message with them ridiculous. I was in my class ace, of course, okay and the first words out of my mouth were Oprah. I want

everyone to understand that. What ever I say today is the opinion of Jim Local Young. I am not represent. Knowing the department, the army, not representing the Department of Defense, however, The soldier in the United States Army, I'm proud of it. We have equal opportunity and our armed forces and the message, and the rest of the thing went very well men we dare dash Had a guy under who I affectionately referred to as redneck, and he was blaming the Japanese for all the problems of, and some of it was correct where they weren't fairer in in none some of the economic dealings with us. You know they put their markets were not as open to our products as they should have been, but, on the other hand, guy was seeing some daddy stuff, like he said, while their crossing is jobs. Ok, so I said: ok,

who's, the fourth largest automobile manufacturer in the country- the answer, Honda, America, ok, they a plant in Marysville, Ohio did employed thirty five hundred american, ok, they can't close their planned and take it back with Japan. It's in the United States- and I said I most I'm tired of hearing people complain about american quality because the Hunter civics produced adapt plant have fewer defects. Then Honda civics that were coming from Japan, Judy powers. I had all this ready to mess with the German. So then I told him I said and guess what the steel for their plan comes from India, which is also jobs for Americans and then the other thing the guy said what

the d the agents are taking over. Our universities, I said, was that all about and he said Well- did getting all the scholarships, ok and ice and listen. The Asian Americans, are not smarter than any other ethnicity or race, the reason they do so well in school is the parents, get involved in name sure that their kids study and they emphasise the value of education back out of huge approval from the audience you know. So what happened was- There is, I believe, you're, not a federal judge in sugar we saw their programme. So he writes a letter to the secretary of the fence, saying you Thomas, I saw the opera show

and there were some major General Jim Mukoyama. Who really did a great job for you guys and you guys it be proud of him. So the secretary defensive, their time with Dick Cheney, okay, so he endorses the letter down to do so criteria the army, the secretary, the army, endorses the letter file to the chief of staff in the army, so when that hits my file, same time being another thing, my file basically cancel the other. Did you say a photocopy that back to me, but that is not so Then there are. The army knew what they were dealing with, whose I you know. I was It was an opportunity to show that we have a opportunity, armed forces, I tell people that won the proudest things of my service was that when I would lose track of people's race, you know ice

Looking at people is as asian, american or african, american and or hispanic Americans. I've looked at them as price powerful lieutenant. Whatever their job was in the military. That's how I call myself forgetting sometimes of people Yorkers. I tell people, everybody was all of Europe already yeah, so that was my first lit for now. You start to say that the book, the book did the book or to play any kind of role in your career to people start talking about hack words book. No not really augur that there be, What I mean by that is you the whole? stance that he took about Vietnam to risk his career and just Actually just saying hey, I moderator cause. You know I've. I've done this now. Thirty something years and afraid It was waiting on him when we talk about the moral injury of knowing

nature leading soldiers and combat when they could have been policy could have been done better, which would have resulted in fewer casualties. There are enough, there's a heavy weight to bear than that that everyone And then what is the next than you took a stance on? Well then, the next that happened, which caused the end of my career. Basically is you say that, with a smile on your face? Well, I uh I don't. We today there you have it. If I had to do it again, today I do it in a heartbeat and here's. What happened was I- was an army reserve guy soul for full transparency to your listeners. Ok, I was on active duty for five years. I was on an army, be service for twenty seven years: Now the army has three components: they have the active component, They had the army reserve and they have

The army, National Guard, ok, the army, reserve and Army National Guard or the so called reserve components. K now be active army, of course, of the twenty four seven, that's their full time job! the army reserves, are a federal force and the army reserves, fall into the normal army chain of command the partner, the army. We answer to the orders of the President gay Army National Guard does not fall into the chain of command. Nor do they report to the President baby port to the governors of each state. It's really a state organization, although ninety five percent of their budget comes from the federal government and Kay

and as an army be service for twenty five years. Twenty seven years I saw whenever it came to reducing the army force. Structure the army reserves would always get the short end in the guard would always be protected gave the act is, would always take Themselves, that was never an issue gay, but this called one army concept where everybody supposed be together in this, the reserves always got the short ended, a stiff and the reason for that. Is the reserves were a national force K. We were professional in your in the military has, as you know, you're not supposed to be political you're supposed to be a political rights. Not involved in lobbying and stuff, like that. The new

National Guard is very political, its jobs for the state. Ok, so whenever there's the nest Oh guard has so much political clout if you look at any presidential election just watch the week before the election in November, That's when the guard normally has their national convention. If ye see ok and I can't oh yeah, every major presidential candidate shows up, K and and keep in mind, they have the political support of a governor. Two senators and congressmen right. The army reserve doesn't had that political clout so frankly, we ve always gotten gotten screw, and so I I watched f,

twenty five years. I said enough is enough, and so I I founded a fiber one c three. Organisation called the Army Reserve Association, which was comprised of officers enlisted and said yet the mission was to educate the public in Congress about the army reserves because people when they think they hear of the reserves they think of the National Guard think of the army, reserves which has our Marie's and they have soldiers in every state in our union. But people don't think about that. Ok, so when desert storm ended right when desert storm hit, be our mobilized both National Guard and reserve units. Ok, then, National Guard had no full transfer

CS. I said I'm an army reserve guy case, I'm pretty jaded unless you want to say that but you're. The national guard has great patriots, not casting spurs. On them at all. You know, but a facts are facts and here's. What happened when when does the storm The national guard had three so called pre, mere Infantry brigades that risk both to round doubt active duty divisions. Ok, one of them was the forty eight hour, Georgia K and there isn't a national Guard brigade deadened upon mobilization, they would be assigned to death division. Go to war with the division K and what happened was when it

and by the way they had all the best equipment. They had better equipment in some active army battalion. And brigades they had Abrams Tags yet understand. This is the early nine they had Abrams eggs and they had Bradley vehicles, a lot of active units didn't have that ok, but they were publicized as being the premier Army National Guard combat units, ready to go to war, gay. The balloon went up, the army said we can send these guys. They're, just gonna be cannon fodder, so they sat down to the anti seed and national training Centre in California for ninety days. Ok, only problem was the war ended so quick. They never got terror and never got there. The reserve, on the other hand, our soldiers perform magnificently, we helicopter units? We had medical units, we had civil

affairs we had sire sweet, you know are our people did extremely my training vision, perfect example: there we were mobilise. I had my guys in the front gates afford burning within seventy two hours in my jewel instructors around the trail, my why my my instructors around the planet teaching. You know running the Rangers and all that in southern when it came time to downsize. Is that where you took a stand? Yeah absolute, What happened was that you know when we were so we window desert storm and then the Soviet Union falls apart in the wall comes down right, so everybody's looking for this peace dividend. The transfer money from the Defence Department to Social services, ok and so the army has a process. That's called the

Total army analysis is a very good logical process, so you can determine the force structure that we need for the army. Ok and the way it works, is you look at what are the? are we facing throughout the world? You know whether the problem areas you and then you save yourself. Kay. Based on that, how many divisions, Dewey Infantry Debate, Do we need how many armor it's how many helicopter Patel you don't blah blah blah, and then you face reality in you say how much money can really get at it. For this. So based on all that stuff, you come up with a force structure. Ok, the army didn't do that. What they did is they had the vice chief of staff.

The army, the chief of army reserves, the chief of the National Guard Bureau, the President of the National Guard Association, which is not a government. And the president of the Reserve Officers Association go to a hotel and they cut a deal, and it was called the off site agreement because it wasn't done at the Pentagon, Ok, why I told you I had formed this Army Reserve Association. I had people in that meeting within five minutes. I knew what happened And the army reserves really They eliminated eighty per cent of Army Reserve Aviation and we had for special forces groups at that time. In the reserve components there were two National guard groups, the nineteen.

And twentieth in two army deserve special forces groups, the eleventh into twelve, the twelfth of ASEAN was when the units die was under might come in. I was a deputy commanding journal of an army reserve unit, So I give you an example where the black HAWK battalion once and in my army reserve, under my command that fought in the Gulf, were so good words, cloths selected them through his taxing unit, ok, and they had received the it's called the Army Aviation Association award happily award for the best black hawk battalion, so death? How good these guys were gay, this agreement eliminated that unit out of the army reserves and put it

Anti Illinois National Guard? Ok, now I'm a big boy I I can. I can accept appreciate as the taxpayer, but I can accept waste of money whatever we draw. The line in the sand is when you jeopardize soldiers lives and the readiness of our forces this unit overnight? Oh, what didn't tell you was the all no National Guard did not have unqualified black, HAWK pilot or mechanic. They could not even fly those birds, foam, scatter forcemeat. Where we had them to the Illinois National Guard field, they had to go to the risk. Sin in Minnesota Guard to borrow pilots, so they could move those birds now be implication Is that unit overnight, one from see what you're the highest readiness rating?

on the sea, five, which is none non deployable. Basically, you know in it took about to be years plus to get that unit up to see three, which is just the marginal the plain that level. Ok, so that's one example: another example: the special forces groups, ok, they're army, looked at the four reserve component special forces groups and they said no- we only need to pay. So would limit the national guard? You know groups. Could Why does the National Guard govern? Why does the governor need Farsi speaking demolitions? Expert? Ok, last time I look, we didn't happen. Insurgency, insurgency, no Illinois, so so the national guards is no. We don't so the army, with their tail between their legs, go back to the drawing board and they

that readiness, which is what they probably should have done to begin with, and they found out that the twelve whoop in the USA, and the army reserves was the best Otto, the four and then it was either I think, of the twentieth outer the guard was the second best, so they said. Ok, we got solution, will take one out of each component guard wooden except that so What did they do? They eliminated both army reserve? You know groups and I was lit it because it, What was under me at one time I wasn't commander but was in my train. We are taken, their unit from C4 to see two, which for a reserve unit to be able to get reservists to pass those special forces qualifications. That's not

easy, ok and they eliminated the union. Now, I'm a big boy day when it came like today the whole captor units- and I said: ok, take my pilots and saw in and the candidates take the reserve patch off their shoulder, make em national guardsmen, I'm good with it. Ok do it because it was jobs for the guard, so my guys had to find new jobs, someone. Had the actual change, unmolested. As though there were no aviation jobs for them right and just think it unites taxpayers how much it costs them. You know so it's so now, I'm getting all kinds of calls from the field. We did it Peters at that time in the internet, so I get telephone calls and faxes

general somebody's got to stand up and fight this. You know, in that meeting, I told you about that. They had. I found from my malls that in essence there gonna have a press conference. The next day were ever. But he was gonna, hold hands and sing kumbaya and say that the army has come up with this great agreement. Where everybody agrees and nobody disagrees while that wasn't true. Alot of people disagree with it, so I called device cheapest s office at the Pentagon, not as major General Jim who young but as Jim Opium President Army Reserve Association, Okay. So why call asking for a return call about this? This press conference is going to happen. You know- and I didn't get a call back so-

next morning in our before their press conference. We sent out a press release, and we basically said this is not good. This is you shouldn't go you need to have a GEO study of Government Accounting Office study in that pretty well got me into the crosshairs. And so then, what we did is enough to keep in mind had never done this in my life, I never lobby. I've never been to Congress. I'd never walked the halls euro. Any that stuff We had a wee wee. Actually, I think I'm mindset you some stuff, but we had a. A meeting of the Army Reserve Association, Souci call for Washington D C. And I had men and women come from all over the country and we went and we lobbied are senders and congressmen and we told them. This is wrong. This need

stood there needs to be a g. O state needs to be studied, write reports implemented. Ok, now Frankly, I knew we were tilting at windmills, but I had to do it because you know all I was getting all these bequest from sight Hutchinson, civilians and lieutenant and majors throughout the country saying somebody's gotta fight this and they were right, so I had to do it some then I get an invitation from a congressional subcommittee. Ok, it was not a subpoena I didn't have to go. I could have set. I've got a headache or I've gotta conflict or whatever, but I didn't you nice idea I'll, be there and I went- and I testify in a year later, I was history He said, but it's like I said job like I would hesitated a moment to do it again, it's when

in Vietnam. I knew that our generals standing up for us all the time like they should, and I said ever, get to appoint my fur. Is it France, between my career and at my soldiers, the soldiers win, perhaps a ravine, that's one. Balanced things do is You know as leader, where do you know you? You want to toe the line, and I have people ask me this pretty regularly. Well, you know you use say you want a sports chain of command, but with chain of command is wrong. It's real simple answer: if a chain of command is wrong and something that matters like this. Safety of your troops the training of your troops, then you you stand up to it and know if it's something that doesn't matter for they go, I we want you to fill out this paperwork differently than you did it yesterday. You know what I do. I do it right. I don't care, you know you want me to put my uniform on this way. Instead of that way, that's fine what I'll do it, you wanna start

putting soldiers jeopardy that thou wilt thou won't stand. So here's what happened. Ok, while all this stuff is gonna, the Washington Post fits this front page in a talks about how the the dispute controversy. You know my associations right at the forefront of all the slime quoted in all its not keep the money stolen. Active armies are major general. They re daughter, rife in and in fact before testified I got a call from the cheapest. A trademark was a good friend of my we're, both major journals and Andy. You didn't tell me, I shouldn't: go he kind, said that, while he was really not a good idea of freedom to go anywhere

friend of mine in- and I said john- you know like I understand this- is you have to do this? This is your you know. This is your job, but I got to go like I can't. I cannot stand by and let this pass. So he ended in, and so that was also in the Washington Post. Like others threat, I wasn't threatened It's so pace Equally, I the army times wrote a rhetorical which basically critic I. The army deserves special. My association, you know it and saying the army reserves are not team players, their cry, babies, Unum, and but what got me when they said there putting out bad information, get out was in their editorial. Ok, so I wrote,

in I bet, okay which, to their credit they published in India Game. I said number one way There is an end, the title of their there a tory was the enemy. Is us? Ok, and I said I agree do the enemy is us, but the problem is number one. Where is you didn't list in detail? The false information that was being put out by the way there's? So you need to do that. I said that the opposite: they never did by the way. Because we have never put out anything false. But the second thing I said- and I said if we go to war in the next eighteen months- and this thing goes through

gonna, have people coming back in body bags. That would not have I mean now. That's a pretty serious statement does indeed ok and We think if I was chicken little saying the fine was falling, that they would have been inundated with letters from the field saying yield the generals gone too far right. They didn't get one letter so, but so because of stand. I took needless to say, the army we are happy with me in a year later, when it came time to to a new assignment, surprise, surprise, I was not considered There were no assignments that I was considered the eligible for inside. I said this been fun

so I did. Chief of Army Reserve actually wanted me to stay, and he said this too shall pass. So why? Don't you stay? You can go into control group which is kind of this administrative pool of people. Have assignments, and maybe in a year or two you can come back. You know we'll get you an assignment, and I said no, I you're the army's made a very clear. You know they didn't want my service, they don't think I have any value and I'm gonna move on. I get a move on in life, the Azores, Now, even though you moved on he retired you. Stop serving by any stretch in, and you know I look at that. The military outreach that you started, who is really your new way of serving with that is at an accurate statement, all absolutely what what happened was You know my wife is so wonderful she's. She says she's donors. As a Christian is. I am, but she lives your life better than I do, and

So I'm having my personal pity party, feeling sorry for myself. My third two year careers down the toilet right and she said Jim, you God is sending you a message number one that this chapter in your life is over gay number. Two. You survive Vietnam. You also became, attain the rank of two star general, which was the highest reservists could get at that time? Ok and then she said number three and you me as a how can argue with their, but she was absolutely right. What happened? Was God brought other things into life at that time, a promise keepers, which is immense Christian grew. I got involved with the church in Chicago a Willow Creek Community Church, which has a very famous

Jellicoe Church, I I I let a many small grew by leading men, smartly breakfast, got involved with the Department of Veterans Affairs, which I had never been involved in before at a national level the chairmen of the advisory committee on minority veterans and our son of his and after five years, so I learned about the visa system. All of this was in preparation for me to eventually start military outreach USA about seven years ago, which is a nonprofit faith based organisation. The very simple concept: Jacko we're trying to develop and national network of partners, mostly houses of worship, of all faiths. By the way, an organizations like the VFW American Legion, rotary clubs, lions clubs

high schools? This is all at the local community level that will reach out. To our military community, which we defined by the way as active duty reserves, National Guard veterans, all areas and their family members. We stressed a family members equally cause they serve and sacrifices well K and to reach out to them. To be a welcoming environment, to appreciate their service, recognise that and to offer hope and help if they need it. Now, the churches in and synagogues wanna help data. Know how to do it because they don't understand the military culture they don't. All the issues. That our military community is facing and they don't know where the resources are. That's worth military outreach USA comes it. We provide all

that information we have weapon hours, we have publications, we have dvds, we have presentation friends and everything that we do is free of charge, no cost The only thing we ask is when people join us as partners, either as a house of worship or as an organisation that they commit to take, are met cereals and use them to help our military community. It doesn't cost him anything. And if people want, I want to help out Terry Outreach, USA and of the website, is military, outreach, USA, DOT, Org, that's cool and then from their. What what are you looking for? While we have now Miss programmes, because we understand houses of worship, common, all shapes and sizes. Okay, so we have different programmes. It

can choose from summer simple as a church can list the names of service members. Were Certainly serving you know either relative sword or members of the church and people can pray for them per, is so important when you're overseas especially in a combat situation. I know it helped me alive when I was in combat I need it all. I could get of. Tell you, but also they could do things like send packages. Some letters up today who writes others, nobody uses all e mail in all that stuff. Getting a letter writer male call I'll need, is that you know, but then we can also do things for veterans event. We we have two years ago we started a programme and by the way we have a memorandum of agreement.

That was signed by the Department of Veterans affairs in two thousand and sixteen by the secretary himself, which recognize military outreach. Usa as a national partner with them on a pro in that we initiated called veterans, exiting homelessness. Ok, now here's the thing The Ba has done a very good job, been. We do sing the veteran homeless population, It is still too high, but three years goes like a hundred and fifty thousand, it's like fifty. Thousand now, which is still too high, but look at the look at the reduction. Okay. Well, that's creed, The new problem the problem is when they take a homeless, voted male or female, some with kids off the street, and they were with a case worker or a social worker k and the social work

feels that their stabilize and now they can get him to whistle is called permanent housing, which is really an apartment debts. God it's subsidized by a hug, Vashe voucher. Ok, they give them the keys to the apartment right. But homeless people. That's all they give em. So just like it. The first time you moved into an apartment, you need stuff, lysol, toilet paper, buckets sponges. Mom said you know, dishes how about a bed homeless people. They get a one bed room apartment, but guess what they don't have? right. So we came up with this programme called move. Any central and we listed things like we have a bathroom kid. We have a kitchen kid. We even have a beds for that's programme. Ok and what we ve done is we ve gone out to our our churches are partners

your organizations, and we vast them. Can you conducted donation, drive this stuff? Ok I'm not asking to collect money, Gimme, the stuff, and then its delivered to Would the v a medical center social worker and they distribute it today it's so, we know they're going to better, it's ok cause there are lots of people out there to be veterans or not, and so we they're going to veterans and it goes out almost as quick as it comes. It ok this helped us a great deal as an organisation because before We read a point in time where we really can move up to the next level is an organization, but we frankly need hunters and money, because we don't have a say we ve done all this an issue string basically, and so, with

programme, we now have results that we can show people. Ok, so people come to me and say Jim. You know what different so you guys making two years ago, all like say was well with developing this network of partners. Asking none to help. You know in their communities, which did the difference. By the way I mean we prevented some suicide, sweep help people that needed stuff. You know, but we did have I mean I don't have to staff to record all of this stuff. You know. But when we came up with this programme we have a try fucking thing where we know how many veterans for being help. We know what's been collected and we know so now. If somebody says

What difference do it make? Ok since January two thousand and sixteen we have helped over thirty one thousand veterans we ve collected over seven hundred and fifty thousand items effect. A thing is over a million now and then Oh, you did almost two million dollars and we have four. We just provided this month are one thousand dead. Ok, and so now I got stuck there. I can tell people this well, we ve come up with new programme this year, as called adopt a caregiver. Ok, to see what we're trying to do is fine fine gaps where There is a need and nobody else is filling it. So we first we did that veteran sexting homelessness. While now there are

five point: five million military caregivers in our country. Ok, Sir over one point, one million new former military k and they get some help from the Ba not. A lot is much as they need. Ok, so we are now going to our churches and our organizations and more saying we have this programme adopted, caregiver, okay and if you want to be a caregiver, you let us know in will contact the local social worker a volunteer support at the Vienna facility near you, and wool hook you up with a caregiver that need help. Now this could be meeting could be baby sitting could be, moiling alone could be shoveling snow. It could be,

showing up with a meal it could be just bring up and being there for three hours. It left a caregiver, get a break. Ok, this is not rocket scientist stuff, it's uneasy programme, but it's something If we can get this moving like we did, a veteran sexting homelessness, it's gonna be a tremendous help for our veterans and but most importantly, for the character, you see I and another lifetime. My wife and I were hospice patient volunteers. We did after six years So I know how it is to deal with terminal illness. Ok, but I also witness that it's the caregivers who are sometimes need to help more than the patient. You know, and so in this case we ve got military caregivers that need help and we can do it.

It is probably well sounds like, like I said, you're continuing to serve, even though you are no longer in uniform, and then it gets pro pretty good place to wrap up for today, and you know again It's been just an absolute honour to sit down and talk with you as we get feedback from this episode. Come to Chicago and go to your museum and and will do this again, you have them. Let me say one thing that I was not able to get in and anybody who knows me with Tommy John. Why didn't you say that I have standard mantra. Ok, and that is every day is a great day. I have my faith. My family and live in finest country in the world. I see it every day. Every chance I get in people. Ask me why you know how can you be so positive, and why do you say that I say what

number one is a very young twice for your role, copy commander in Vietnam in combat there were times I didn't know if I was gonna be alive. The next moment. Much. Seed, the sunrise, when you're in no circumstances what is important in life becomes real focused in that is faith family in living in the finest country in the world. Now so people come back at me and say: well, how can you say that we have so much division in our country? Ok, I say: listen, I'm a little bit longer and tooth and you are in when I was a kid the I've seen the improvements in our society when it comes to waste relation No I'm a minority. So I get it. I told him the odds of me becoming when I was a kid. The some may becoming a major journal in the United States Army were slim and next to Nod K one YO.

We ve had an african american president who will reelected, and then I tell people President Kennedy was elected? There was a big deal and and of people dont know why- and I say, because was catholic, but today that this that's that's, not a big deal right in that debt owed. In those days there was a big deal, so I tell people every day is a great day. I have my faith, my family. We live in the finest country in the world. Well, that saying was challenged about five and a half years ago, when I had some health challenges, reject I didn't mentioned earlier today. Why are you haven't a still working in financial services? the street and I got up in the morning or shaving, and I felt this pain in my chest and I mean it wasn't a serious pounding and I wasn't sweating nausea said: didn't, have a temperature, so I thought

Something I ate? You know Five minutes it'll go away right It didn't go away. So I told my wife this not good, so I think shaving undressing Now- and she drove me to do urgency room the hospital, so I walk in and I say here- you not got this pain in my chest. Like I don't know what it is, so do any Katy and they said you have had a heart attack. Well, suddenly, all these doctors and nurses whoop into the EU Are they addressed me? They put me in a hospital gown, a gurney and I'm on my way to the opera. Reading room right side, in the corridor and undiscouraged. He and I say to myself self. Can you say today is a great day, and I said I absolutely can I survived, Vietnam. I have a wonderful wife and children and I most importantly, have my faith.

So in twenty four hours I had three operations. The first operation was for the heart attack guess I do in angiogram they found out my elder d, which is the widow maker Arthur, He was ninety percent block, so they do an annual plan d put a stand in so by tenable in the morning, I'm in the recovery room, so I'm figuring. Well, that's that's the end of it right that wasn't the end of it. The second thing that happened with my heart cavity started to fill up with liquid. It's called a fusion, so I had to go back in for it there. Put a whole my chest, so they fitted put a tube there, so they could drain this liquid and it filled up a bottle of about twenty four hours to do that. Ok. The third thing that happened then was my. Kidneys failed, so I had to go back in and they had

the put another home my chest, so they could hook up by day dialysis machine, ok, so the standard procedure every time I was rolled into the operating room, is what's your name, what your birthday? How do you feel ok? Simon the operating table- and I say, Jim locally August Third, forty four every day is a great day. I have my faith, my family and live in the finest country in the world. I can't tell you- dead head on the doctors and nurses, the first operation, the doktor said. What is your feet and I said well, since you ask me doc- I said I'm a christian crisis. My saviour, your skill, physician, skilled nurse is, but I'm in God's hands. So what are we? besides, I'm ok worth so, let's get on with it so the second operation. There was a nurse and she said: where do you go to church and I

said why a ten willow, Creek community Church- and she said I do too so, no coincidence, the third operation. This was the coup Firstly, there is a male nurse who is wearing a camouflage gown, and I said you, must have been in the army because the idea. I was a medic and I said well, hey I just want you to know. I retired is to start general. Take good care of me we're at so that this kind of my my testing of all that now. The final thing I tell you, which was a God thing months later I was going. I had to go through dialogue. This is a I'm going through this dioxin and three months later get a donor. A donor was our daughter, gay, but

orders, not our biological daughter? We adopted her thirty something years ago, and yet she was a match, so guys. When I say every day is a great day I have my face. My family and live in the kind finest country in the world. I can truly say that and every day every day, is an encouragement to me. Ok today was an encouragement this morning when I was honoured to participate in a national day of poorer, with the seventy nine. The theatre sustain commanded LA solemn meadows in this pod cast. Isn't it I to me so I just want you to know that in remember every day is a great day. Faith family. We live in the finest country in the world while Sir do you know. This is my part gas, and I'm supposed to talk after that. I don't really have anything else to say

You so much for common on. It's been a complete honour to have you and look forward to doing this again at some point in the future. Thank you. So much and the general has left the building, and we have actually relocated back to our recording studio and Just amazing opportunity and definitely thanks to you, thanks to J Movie Alma fur coat. Acting us and send a little gift to you as well. So thanks for thanks miss together with your dad and echo speaking of putting things together. Yes, sir, yet if somebody wanted to put together something for themselves, and maybe something that would you know, supports yeah yeah. Could you brief us on those things, namely your joint? You keep those together. The big deal together so

good news. If you didn't all, I already evenly dinner, ready, jugglers supplements, they're called Jacko Super Krill oil, but that's not the name We also jacket joint warfare. Also very joints. Obviously, take both there's some anti inflammatory stuff in there too, by the way. Something that I mentioned before. Free joints very good, very important subscribe for thee The recurring deliver real yeah. You don't run out selling its jump when you're gonna run up before tat, also discipline supplement called discipline. It is a pre worked out. Pre mission, pre study, pre, take test, pre cognitive, enhancing supplements, good, there's a good on pre get after and it tasted good. Listing leader. Jocker focused a lot on that takes good, lemon lime, etc, etc. Kelly's in this one not number,

Any thirty day, thus he can do while you fast do technically. Depends on your metabolic response looking into it before Fatima, can make any claims unless it's a good one for your brain for your body good supplement, also mark. The melting pot of milk. Protein powdered- who do you are you? Are we even calling a protein per week? Communist straight up more notes. Did not its mark street among different off rhythm lots? Yea, let's look so that is chocolate chip, no mint chocolate energy is meters data. So if you like mid chocolate chip, you might there's a chance. You might like this. If you do it MID chocolate chip, theirs real good. There is rather, like I would say, around one hundred percent probability, you're gonna like this, could clarify that I mix it. Primarily with milk media.

I have mix it also plain with well now plain, but with cold water. It's with me look it straight up delicious straight up its milkshake. You go, I don't want. What do I truly in the world want to have for dessert, and I want to have more right. We with water. It's more, like a ham sandwich, sir, Ok, this thing is good. I you know, I need some fuel, you, don't you don't get all fired up when you have a ham sandwich right Unity unite. You're, not reaching the next level. Here you happy you not mine, you, that's kind of what mark with water. Like a ham sandwich better for you, but you taste, taste reaction is about the same for me ham sandwich. Look, don't move with with milk,

it's legit! What is it like? A were like a state's vaguely compared the software to be born because review on law. Well, national actually knows it's like a majority of milkshake there. That's what it's like you, because a state is a different thing. For me, stake is a little bit of a different experience. That's really experience so technically kind of guy Postik now, but you little ass fast! I did and I posted at Berkshire. I got that I wouldn't gotta killer stake here in it the thing was so good cause he did after the vessel good. Yes, we got a hundred per cent of the teeth hundred percent, no more than ninety percent of our country ten year. Somebody said me some tomahawks day. Yeah to my house, and they came with instructions from company that centre on how to cook

and I dont remember they recover your now. I follow those instructions. I propose stakes. Those things were, epic. They were epic near So increasingly diagnostics came to my house or anything like that, are neither how excellent next, but They do some good and they thought we'd better after cause currently were given our fast on yes, currently, the officially too What are we arena? well, are you twenty three hours or something I think of it, eighteen, good eleven o clock last night, yeah dealer issues. Why? What are you doing you eleven o clock at night because, like I dont really start eating till later in the day, breakfast like that. You seem handle Lizzie, E3 meals a day and that's not a lot better. That's actually a little bit, not some guys. Six times. Do you know that knowledge?

again three times a day, sometimes too. So, let's ate my first meal. No breakfast only water, maybe some coffee, something maybe some idiot someday maybe like a banana, sometimes now lot. Nonetheless, at noon issue one may be to lunch dinner, Was it like six chocolate then again at eleven. That's normal! That's not that much easier hooker due to want to do over their nonetheless at about eighteen hours you give or take, and that state that Europe has talked about the tomahawk one sounds Rodya, but later her car real, fired up that ain't right now, rewired up better, you didn't even mention where you can get all this good stuff will even more good stuff, but what I thought I'd like to do is like get us some really excited about everything and then something where can you get it I do want to say. We have in the testing phase right now: chocolate, peanut butter, milk, milk, everyone's probably wondering hey. What's up was

just chocolate mark. We, For whatever reason, I don't it's the complimentary flavors but- We haven't been able to nail the chart. We favour the way we want at this time that the men I don't We know the men is awesome. The chocolate peanut butter, Epic we haven't nailed the chocolate, yet we got vanilla, vanilla is run, not vanilla fan, but the Vienna, was good. I can give it nine stars, because I give nine stars two things that I dont personally really love the taste of cause. I don't love vanilla, I'll, try again. What's it once we rule out with the actual live, vanilla, milk, but mark will come when we get it right, but the peanut butter milk stem

It gets so given that the whole kind of defining factor of the vanilla flavour- it's like it's not supposed to be amazing- spoke be vanilla, like people use word, vanilla, nervous, guerrilla media. As a great doesn't say. Let me tell you I actually let me tell you win win. When I do absolutely love vanilla flavour You know you got old restaurant and you like I'd tonight, we're gonna get some and user order dessert and you get some kind of a chocolate scenario slightly less. Let's just let us talk about a chocolate as hot chocolate, brownie right, yeah Euro level knows so. There's that my my local for my local restaurants. They have a dessert. They call it the illegal, because it's so good at should be legal here is Raglan Ragman hobby

and what it is they take a cast iron skill it and they put, could chocolate chip cookies there in an eye when they make it force. Will we get our once every two months go illegal time and now extra ice cream because you need cause. You got that it's hot. They are so good and you know it- I just realized we're the twenty four hour faster now around signalled its public dangles didn't get along with a kind of don't minded man you're right about their vanilla. Think too, by the way, because people what people do use the word militant vanilla to describe brutal other road ahead of us, the, as this will allow, which Eurostat Great both not John Footing, stored Iris broadcast giants. Let your one hundred percent, that's especially when you said when you go to Russia is a bright or where you live. It is absolutely right. So that being said, so what do I do? Then? You put some chocolate her she syrup in the book, vanilla, mark there's, a violation of going be,

by just sounds real good. I know I'm just Nonetheless, the strongly language be illegal for us to do see. I've been off, I've been fasting performed on the park asked, but this is different. We now know that you're here the same bone. This is kind of like the usually I'm just cruising at home, like it, then done it before for sure, but it is good at home and they bore but now like yeah, once you get the talking about it shoot em an I drive, a on those something jerk either way you get all this stuff vanilla mark, not Rayner, chocolate, peanut, butter, milk, Marino, chocolate, mint, mint, chocolate right now. Right now we origin main dot come the three get it form and all the others, the Jackal supercool that that is like everyday stuff. You take them every day, get on the subscription thing, but these you know all the others

After all, a bit like, as at all of it or Jamaica, come also at origin. Me I'll tell you what there's on there is geese for digital variant, when you start Jujitsu or if you already started you just you need a get. People still ask give em a gun, gladly Ducas, then a dancer from what ye I guess I did you see when you do. I get somebody else, the color and that's all different question, but this is what brand of key who's the bran origin brand hundred percent made in America, best these are the keys that like in all when they make em they taken consideration all the movements of Digital, like everything even down to this. But we might not even a thought about it like outside of when you put this on so an irregular d. They have the strength to tie on the pants, not about the strain on the bed. Then you have a belt. They goes over the guitar on its now that string, fine reuse. Do it fine, mythical string?

you ever like put in the drier rigour caught on something or whatever, and that string gets lost in a little too. I don't. Even I would you, but you see I'm saying right, good projects, including that haven't you hurry and we gotta get the hang. You gotta do this big thing. If you even know how I got a skeleton awakens you gotta go all up in there now take the Orange These are just these details it when you get someone who's thinking of this kind of stuff when they designed the whole gave you that some either This is one of the many reasons why the origins of this one, the drink about. That's. Ok, because it's not this! This endless black hole loophole organisms in year? It's like, it'll have led it's a giant, thick White Bell, loops yeah, I'm a bunch of you do so. You have like unites It so easy to permit. That's even if you even want the string and if you want the string, you like hey, I'm up I'm over strings unlike time, a string, they give you this little bell. You see if your words and give your leg you exactly exactly. I have a lock

yeah, it's a teeny, it's a thin built. There goes through and click ok, the belt make it tighter what it like a little many built you, don't you don't feel it when you really nothing like that. Did you think you're gonna feel when you wrote it was There was a question of me tat. I thought I veto he's gonna weird. You put it on you, don't know you don't know, there's a lot of noise and hold it comes, I'm takin off to his very life or any other thing again. It's like you. We probably never really thought of this. Until you actually do it like when you, when you're done any, you know really think about it, but it's just one of those things were sacked aims. It is good that these are good good case. One of the many details, yeah included our talk, your guy yesterday, Skin interviewed and I said, here's. What you know he's asked me about all my different businesses right whatever. That means all opinion. The admin ha you, and

As we know it, I have a apparel company and we make we make apparel, may get a big factory up on me. This is our main best up at me, of a factory main annual I was like yeah anymore, surprise, and I said you know what sad that your surprised at that because fifty years ago. Everybody knew that that's where they made stuff. They made it up there. And it all disappeared. And now it's coming back and we're bringing back. That's all this guy we're bringing back we're bringing back manufacture. We got we're weaving material up there, What are we really know? What I'm talking about people's first instinct as I go? If you want material you gotta go to overseas and you gotta, have you gotta, get it get it made some sweat shops somewhere, you re literally mother. That's that's! That's accepted right! That's let go you just know: hey you can't be those prices and you can you can overcome the the tariffs and whatever else. No, you know what you can't use UKIP and we are doing it

the cotton in Like North Carolina. Screw. You don't say South Carolina. I believe I'll turn up to America. One of the corona without yet in America is the thing is just to Peter appreciated North could have in. I forget, Catherine analogies. Nonetheless, it is in America just Lucretia and Then they bring it up in here's what it is, no secret that their looms, they have their own looms. You can't just walk into storing start buying looms. He just came with that. That's why it's hard to erotica! That's! Whenever unique situation, there were told me, America, everyone that is supporting us at origin. Thank you cause. Now, you know we're doing. Were expanding whereby more machines whereby better equipment and were higher and more people. So thank you for your support. Its awesome where were only able to bring mania, drawing back to America because of you knowing that you want to have the best and you want to wait a minute or thanks everyone. Thank you, fuck him.

Much appreciated the other one. Gin, main dot com, logical stuff. On there, some good- not to mention the most comfortable pence in the world, officially visually and wearing away. Now we got, they did a good fine. You know whatever but you know one where wear something comfortable does my thought process before? where the most comfortable thing that I own straight up. No question: may origin pants pants legacies, ramparts compression gear and whatnot inward schooling or Jamaica come get. What you want Also the merging caps Jujitsu camp, you immersion camp, not concentration camp, not nut necessarily summer camp, not band camp, not band camp know it's there emerging can emerge yourself, and you did you train as much or little as you want, but you get to be introduced to the whole time bomb one. Two sessions agenda both of you

bitter. I will be there, maybe not at full capacity. The jury still out of now we're to see about some stuff long story. They work leaf. Looks like they ago. J P work in it a lot of fun. People will be there. It's a good good time if last year is any indicators for me also. If you want a very up, you work, I'm gonna to get some kettlebells like some someone sex me today warning on DM em, what weight kettlebells. Should I use you think. That's a broad question there to Real Brazil, who you are you exactly right, no, actually and easier,

I didn't think its order. The forty eight kilogram once gets and potential and kill yourself recent smash it and you talk is, can hold it or it's too late, for you are not just departure, so depends on how much you know about using animals depends how strong our depends on a bigger, and it depends on what kind of Scan it does. It depends on what kind of fit, as you are trying to achieve here, because we're trying to get big, strong, you wanna, get a bigger go about trying to get more met con conditioning and what not, then you get maybe a smaller catalonia. Maybe me to the last point is hate. It depends depends, but Here's the thing I will say this and say this with complete bias, because on its can above on it, those Nobel you get regardless of what size you did see primal Bell ones, that's the thorny get in there just we could also, if you want

The very we work I, like, I said no boring workshops doctor born workout apparently, but he did. He doesn't know, but you want to make your work. Interesting differ movements, functional strength and actual strength is other stuff on there starting like all its spectrum, it goes from jump ropes, although empty but mate steel bells with steel, they look like a frisbie right, but there's filled with metal, but would you do with them all kinds of stuff rail Sea there. That's the point, so there's a bunch of stuff on there anyway allotted to stuff, let's just get pretty cool or the socks on its back on it. So I'm straight up, yeah, there's a lot of lot of cool stuff on that lot of good information on there too. So a lot of the questions that is directed at me. I don't know the answer I sometimes another answer for me as a bite me some stuff I heard, but through flimsy latitude,

you gonna let information on their so get some as they sit on it. Dotcom slashed, chuckled, good support. You want something get some also when you get these books that Jacques Review sometimes hack, work, books about face good on steel, my soldiers hearts good on any of the books. Feel the need to get one aid when it organised all the books. By episode Jackpot Gaston Comfort, Jocapa get stuck on click on the top books from Episodes Boma going to organise perfectly clicked you there did you book, you would have book you like it. Books gonna leave Lord discontinue should just got just. Do your Amazon thing in Europe that goodwill support also subscribe to pop If you have an already on Itunes sticker Google play vodka, pod being pod these pod cast apps other just subscribed to the pact. Has one thing: this kind of thing regards what podcast application you using

Could we support the review if you're in the mood gently review- and you know what kind of thing but if you're not in the mood delivery view earning enough, it's conducive delivery. You or interesting. I think of the ethic it her beauty of Peter, I say Vienna moodily review. Also. We have you channel if you didn't already the subscribe to that one, that's a good way to support as well. We have excerpts on their post everyday. Try to I'm going to do today. Try to also on there is enhanced excerpts. You know what I mean by that. I know what you mean by what I mean. You mean you put some cinematography into dessert area, you film, and then you edit, with music and other special effects, e g islands and what not sure what really support the music on they make their exploding does something

You read the war path, videos there's no longer horrible, Chris as nice, as it unworkable said, but Christmas and music and their causes Christmas time, and there is no doubt that it lets you wanna get Christmas spirit. Watch the watch, the Christmas nineteen fourteen there that's a good one as well. Better Christmas Spirit is real Christmas would nonetheless that's. Why did it, but you make that point eight? It is never put Christmas music in what am I, what do they call Excerpt o now that yours, okay, I thought they were kind of hours. I thought we would like that, if I'm in it don't put Christmas music. Our actions? You got it promise. Otherwise, a year after year, I gotta take down Xera. I dig it and you know it's not going to be Christmas. Everyday, a wise man once said: it's not Christmas everyday. So why put Christmas music on some that someone? Might listen to every day. So I understand you're either

you revamped themselves, sometimes the universe and do their bit F, why? My wife completely stuck up for you on that one year cause it's nice Christmas means it was relieved at Christmas time. I also went into like hiding yeah. This kind of a to Cosette was a really. I know you put at a time and effort into that video took a lot of of its when you showed it to me. You're all excited and and the video cd ice offers us a bright button. I know that you wanted me to be just over the top, filled with awe at the video and I was with the visuals. But I was that was a lot of that was countered by Christmas. Is it's what you saw from my reaction is actually fake

We are well fairly say there is a fair amount of real and they're gonna. Tell you here, and I remember it. I won't forget it cause you're Incas eat. You know you go we'll be inside where you are kind of like form it where does like a certain thing and their little job out and then come back later, so this is The certain part starts out of Michael he's, going to just going to kind of like that part right. So I'm kind of so I kind of look over at you super childish, but I'm like looking at you or whatever and you're like looking at it and when that part here in it's Christmas amuse you like, gonna as Does it interesting choice instead of you know, you were so rough with the Christmas music. As a result, little bomb anyway element is hit. Video Volta s her anyway

so yeah enhance excerpts from their along with, of course, the video version of this package. If you care, the Jackal looks like also jock, where the store called Jackal store. Euro is job restored, so obviously not the creative but still cool stuff on there and stuff is creative. I think so go on their shirts hats. We ve got a new hat flex, fit now bohme little people been asking for that delivered Gladly delivered anyone who is on their legacy, rash guards, women, stuff. Some new mugs. You know anything about the tea on their. So, if you know if they want to have that option to get Jacko White, Tee international think, Dino, just more options, more convenient for the people recover everybody. I think nonetheless,

lot of stuff on there. If you want something, get something, also: psychological warfare, you know what that is its album with tracks charcoal relax, I know it sounds like all kids can esoteric chocolate tracks was, I mean here is what it means means him seeing nothing like that. So. In your mom in your in your Pain against weakness and we're all in the path through its it's like The knowledge they all of us on the path they give you, we were listening to this? Even me talking you, listen we're on the path. All of us wondered this, is inevitable. I think, for almost four inevitable, were you know, tat moments of weakness. Firstly, we need a little help through those moments of weakness. Sometimes you need just slip in those moment the weakness and fall and be like

I'm not doing that again. Sometime that useful. You learn in my opinion, but in those mom the weakness we just need a little spot. This is what chocolate tracks or for so let's see weakness is not getting up early on ahead. This news. Which wanna do too tight on an of whatever may be drink. A little bit item so on the FED. You like, I'm ahead this new just for what was once a normal snooze, ten minutes, nine minutes whenever something me about that this is not in anyway. Actually it's not for this news. Technically, not reading this news, it's for going back to bed, that's the weakness that this particular track. This evening. This news like if you, if you just want to this news, you're not gonna, have the energy to get up and you know boom.

Maybe if you put as your alarm, none of us is what is the track. It did Jack on a specific track, telling you I should just get up and nodded. This does not stand it, but it's like Jackal, pragmatic advice is good. Hundred- and this goes for diets, thus keeping work out stuff hundred percent effectiveness. Hundred per cent that's good speaking. A one hundred percent if you one hundred percent one hundred percent guaranteed want to build a dead lift, thousand pounds minimum. You might go over that how you use your away to its brow? Ok, the kids, I assume am I gonna get sued for false advertising, no, because in his way, so the schedule sire is huge guy towards bicep by the way out few weeks, your maybe she months ago, spinning products from the left, be guide dead list you know, has the set up right and in hill, who have video watching understood, now we got up, and so

there's bicep, you know it happens, and so here. There is a video. Actually, I think this videos before you to torture by the normal use. After so he has his arm in a sling right. When you have the, I so dear, so you drink some jocular white tee with ten pounds it the any smash and I'm not joking actual video smashes Didn'T- throws the ten less one bad on one hand, and it's like more than I can deadline for real in real life in one hand, deadly who so boom proof proof example by way of video Josiah yeah there it is. You can get that on Amazon soon very soon russian terrorism within a few you will be able to get ready made Jocker White Tee can we do to put some companies out of business.

Unity at seven eleven gone! Oh, you know what? Oh maybe I'll, have the sugar filtering over here and will make me feel like like a like high, on a sugar high for about fifteen minutes, and I want to then I wanna falsely can be lame and I'll be getting diabetes or economic drop awaiting their latest court order. As we had that's coming I'll, let you know that's out hey books way. The warrior kid series shows the path. Hard work and disciplined two kids book to his out now Called Marks mission, teacher kids- stronger, faster, smarter, more conference teach him to have better perspective on other people how to handle verbal and physical bullying teaching below your kids and speaking, a warrior. Kids. If you want to support a warrior, kid go to irish oaks, ranch dot com and get some or your kid soap made by aid.

Whose thirteen years old on his own business darkness he makes Jocker soap to good, do use if you want to stay clean, Don't worry about the despotic was freedom field manual. I you know what this does is good red read just read one section of day: Legit read one section a day that will legitimately keep you on the path. Try, Europe if you want to listen to one track day, instead read it we do in the car whenever it on audible, it's on mp3, the disparate course. Freedom feel manual. Itunes, Amazon Google play wherever you can listen. Mp3S, of course, there's leadership extreme ownership, combat leadership and how to apply do business life over a million copies of that have sold. That's a lot Does not because we did about big advertising campaign

This is not because we took out an advertisement in the Superbowl series. No it's because a word of mouth why people read it because it works. So That for your business in life- and actually, if you want to now, what are the fall? One book to extreme ownership is called the dichotomy of leadership life and I just finished writing it. This book, we It's really can help leaders. I came here to get it out there in people's hands, one hardest things to do with leaders is find a balance between all the dichotomy of leadership, and this will help you do that order it now. Otherwise the same things that happened, publishes won't, have a copy, for you near, be mad and I'll be mad. That's It works if you direct leadership. Support for your team contact echelon front, which my leadership consulting company. It's me, it's left aben its J p to now Dave Burke. Our website is echelon, front dot, com and we solve problems through leadership. That's what we do.

And, of course, there's the muster leadership seminar by the way. Zero zero. Five in Washington DC sold out. So If you want to come to muster, you can come to that. One can wait until toper, seventeenth and eighteenth in San from. The scope, California, that is the next. Faster and also at them, stir. We will not be backstage in the green room. Clearing our minds in an elation float tank. We will now we do that we will be with you out there the whole time talking, answering questions working out: eating rolling, Jiu, Jitsu everything come the muster, pragmatic leadership, training, for people that our leaders, people, that aspire to be leaders and also on top for current military law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics other first responders, we, We'll call one so number, twenty first down- Texas. It's one day.

That's about leadership in dynamic environments. You can register that one as well as extreme ownership, dot com. And until we are together lie that one of those events whether it's the master or it's, the roll call, orderly immersion camp and made a few to communicate with us. You can do that via the into webs. Where were cruising big time, I am, Jocker willing, ECHO, is add, echo Charles and also. Military Outreach, USA, which is the organization that run By General Marianna, you want to Follow that they are twitter at at mill out. Reach USA at Mill Outreach USA. They also have their fate but page, which is,

military outreach, USA and if you didn't catch the website, the first time round military outreach, USA, DOT, Org. Great organization, led by a great man, General James. The armor and again, we thank him for his service sacrifice in what he done for our great nation and what he continues to do, and I thank him for coming on gas to share his lessons and also thanks to his son J for connecting us true, appreciate, it was an amazing experience, me- talk from lessons learned that he learned from one of my mentors one of my heroes, Colonel David Hack worth so thank you. Both and thanks to all the men and women in uniform out there doing your duty, holding the line protecting our flag and our

freedom, the police and enforcement, fire fighters, paramedics and all the other first responders that protect as day and night, while we're here at home, you for your vigilance. And to everyone else. That is in fact you factory workers and dry wall hangers and bankers and broker in waiters and waitresses in cooks and dishwashers too busy. Owners and investors itself, where designers and see owes and salespeople everyone out there. Doing your best to do your best think about those hard core condos that fought and think about those hard Cora condos, they didn't come home, remember them and for them down

Let up don't slow down, don't allow any slack and keep getting after it some until next time. This echo and Jacko out.