This is Jacko Podcast number two hundred new one with ECHO Charles in and me Jocker willing good evening echo good evening. I left my daughter Maggie with my parents wall. I and my business partner drove a few minutes away to look at a vacant, store right, the heart of town, as soon as I saw it, I knew would be perfect. As the landlord was putting the least my hand for me to sign. My cell phone rang- and I saw was my mom- thinking, she was just checking to see when I would be back. I ignored the call. When my phone immediately rang again, I knew something was up. My initial fear was that something happened my ten months old daughter. My mind went worse place and at the time I didn't think anything could be worse than that When I answer the phone

I heard on the other end were muffled screams. It was clearly a noise made by someone who is so broken up, and instead a state of shock that he or she couldn't even cry properly. I didn't know how to prepare myself for whatever news I was. Out to receive. I started shaking uncontrollably tat. Me what happened? I cried. I was terrified, something horrible had happened, Maggie had she tripped and split open her head, choked up something my mind was running Wildwood possibilities, not knowing. Was almost worse than knowing at this point Have you called an ambulance? I yelled yes answered the voice on the other phone before the line suddenly went dead. I knew that I was too upset to dry by ass, my business partner, to take me home a five minute. I buy had travelled countless times before, but it

time those five minutes felt like an eternity and wild car was crawling through the streets. My mind was racing in a thousand miles a minute. My husband at work about an hour away. While I wanted the comfort that his voice would bring, I decided not to call him until I got home too house then could figure out What was going on. I didn't want to upset him if I didn't have to as we pulled onto my parents street my heart Started racing as fast as my mind. I didn't see an ambulance anywhere in sight for a mom That gave me a sense of relief. Maybe Things were serious, as I had led myself to believe. My dad was standing in the drive next to a friend, Lieutenant Colonel Corky Gardener, He and my father had served together in the Marine Corps and he was a dear friend of the family. He and his wife lived about forty five minutes away, so it struck me as odd.

To see him standing there, especially since my parents had not meant and he would becoming over. I jump. Out of the car, while it was still moving where's the ambulance. I screamed my dad stared back at me with a blank look. Then, in a very measured tone. He said Travis was killed. I heard those words loud and clear, but they didn't make any sense. It took me a few seconds to process what I was being told since the moment

hung up the phone. I'd know something was wrong, but this was far worse than anything I could have imagined. I thought my daughter was an imminent danger, and here I was being told that my brother was dead. He was twenty six years old in that red. There's an excerpt from a book called the knock at the door. Three goals Our families, bonded by grief and purpose in this book is written by Ryan Mannion, who wrote that ope opening section who is the sister of? U S. Reinforced Lieutenant Travis men and whose killed in Iraq is also, By Amy Loony have for surviving spouse of Lieutenant Brendan Loony

You lost your killed in Afghanistan and the other offer. The final author is Heather Kelly The surviving spouse of first Lieutenant Robert Kelly, a marine corps officer also killed in Afghanistan, and You may recognize these names, because I've talked about all these names on this podcast I I read a speech on podcast number, one hundred and sixty two about to brave Marines. Jonathan Yale. And Jordan heard her who held the line at an outpost while being attacked by vehicle born bomb these two brave marine stood there ground and stop the vehicle before could enter their outpost and kill.

Many more of their fellow Marines, but the bomb did detonate then killed both of them. In that speech was made by a Marine Corps General General Kelly. Then I mentioned. When I read that speech, the general Kelly son was killed in action and that was that was first Lieutenant Robert Kelly and then you may have heard me talk about Brendan Loony Seal that I put through training. Was loved by his brothers in the teams. Who was, a few days from coming home after a tough deployment in Afghanistan, And you're going to turn over operation and was killed helicopter crash in Afghanistan on September, twenty first, two thousand and ten

and when I talked about here my I spoke a lot about his best friend Travis and talked about Travis men and as well when I had Brian stand on the podcast While Travis Mannion was killed in action on April, twenty nine thousand seven and I went in the detail around the release and ship between Travis Brendan who are buried next to each other at all internet nor cemetery where I had Travis his dad on the pod cast number seventy two and we discussed his book, which is called brothers forever. Then this book, well, I'm reading from today the knock at the door, the skin a different perspective. They perspective of

pain and of anguish, but also of surviving in overcoming and of moving. Word through the pain into a place of pride and a place of purpose- and it is an honour to have one of the authors of this book with us here today- Ryan Mannion Sister of Travis Manner- to share some of what she has learnt so Ryan. Thank you for coming out here and thank you for a common on the pot cast I am really happy to be here and now I am happy to talk a little bit more about the book. This is a tough, we'll start off a book. He asked with a mean, though, with what's gonna, be the worst day of your life form, I'm assuming, or at least right up there, one hundred percent

worst day of my life, and you know it's interesting to hear you reading it. You you become old desensitized when you're putting things on paper and when you talk about it a lot, but to hear you reading it it. It definitely brought a most. It's private in the way that you read too. But you know it, it kind of brings back to tat place where, wherever I read something this, not only my thinking about what you went through, what your family one went through, but I am also thinking how many times this happened to my friends, my friends, families in the pain and anguish that this that this causes and yeah it's just. You know that you title the book them

the door for for anyone. It doesn't understand this. The moon, the the military, has a very well defined protocol that they take when a service members killed over seize and it's a personal notification, which is which is actually a great thing, hard to what they used to do not know if you ever seen the What are those little messages that they used to send a telegram yeah like it. The grand messages right. It was a telegram they would send it grandma said you know. Your mister and Missus Smith where's to inform you that your son, bury Smith, was killed in action, around this day in around this area, so at some point Someone Smart realized that was horrible way to notify families, so they have a very strict protocol and what the programme consists of is uniformed personnel.

From the service branch that the service members in going to the home and and knocking on the door in full dress uniform And it's these days, what come challenging about his is a race against social. In its a race against the news. So when You have when you're overseas and one do you one here: troops are killed, there like immediate radio, silence, you're, not allowed to tell anyone, because it's all to prevent the family from finding out that this has happened on the news and let's face it, even with this protocol, which is designed- to try and support the family as much as possible. I mean it's, it's still just an absolute it's this now, so the nightmare and its though the worst fear of of any family in that has a service member on on active duty deployed the worst, the worst nightmare for for all of US

you did a great job of capturing. How that how that impacts? Now before you go, They're down the story. I want to give a little, but a background with between between Travis, not, I think it's Starts to tell the story of of your relation with him, I'm gonna the book here, Travis I've been born only fifteen months apart say we were close, would be an understatement. That was a military family also brought us closer than most siblings. Like many military families, we had to two new situations very quickly until I was twelve when my dad left active duty before that we had moved almost every two years. We knew that no matter where we move next, no matter what school we ended up in a witch sports teams, we'd be on B. The new kids, on we always How each other to depend on Travis had been my built in best friend at every stage of my life.

What about the? What about that sister brother, dynamic. Did you were you? You were older, so kind of like the I will dominate her. I was dollars gasters there. No doubt about that and it was funny. I was having a conversation with someone last saying they were asking me about my relationship with Travis in and they As you know, Travis really did look up to me and sometimes I didn't fair him well because I was a bit of the wild child and you know I wasn't always listening to my parents, and so I can cut askew him in the wrong direction and you know look. Back on things. I look at whom I, otherwise in and he was very driven even at a young age. There is something different about him

you know I I I talk well or when the book, like I felt like at times, for what happened piece of DNA. Her may, because I don't have that drive, I don't have that commitment to two goals or anything of that sort, but you know long with that came this. Idea that in the in the way, that he was. I admired him so much it wasn't a jealousy I wasn't like. Are you now bears great Travis? Are you know? I was so proud of him and I was so proud to have him as my brother, so that's pretty yeah. I mean my. I remembered Highschool my girlfriends, and I we found him around the Philadelphia area to his rustling matches, and we were like his main cheering squad in the front row and on life. That's my brother, the all american wrestler. You know I was so proud of him and it was, it was really or to grow. With someone that even he was younger than me, but that I could look up to

much you know and I think at the end of the day, he helped me from not going too far off the rails weird and you got three children. I have three children die of for children and It's weird: how I'd always try to explain to people that they're gonna be different? Oh yeah, you know, they're gonna be different and you just gotta have brace yourself laughter at which it sounds like you're periods at abroad. Themselves for you out my data brace yourself for many many years. Many many and you know growing up, I mean I. I was an athlete and less fortunate or I played lacrosse through then I played every sport grown ups, shocker basketball, everything, but I played lacrosse through high school in college, and My dad always said you know between you and Travis, like you were, the born athlete IQ had had ability. It came naturally to you like treasure, to work hard.

Everything he did Travis played on a member. We move to Pennsylvania, he paid on a sea football team and he was a short little chubby kid and his nickname was pork chops and you know and then try to work to become who we became. I glided right through never worked at any, still got some money to go to school for college and play across, and I looked back down and, like God, if I'd only even apply. I myself a little red light and really tried to work at something, no It's weird! That's! That's! A trait right like this work, ethic thing yeah! It's that some people have and some people- don't I don't know, but what's it I heard a quote a quote from one of my brazilian. And he said there is a saying in in Brazil

that there's a reason that God doesn't give wings to a snake, because if he did we'd all be screwed, as the snakes could just fly around until you? So like what happens right. You can have that awesome gothic, but you may be dont get. For athletic capability. That is optimal or you can be this really gifted athlete. But you know you like to party fact that that's pretty much describes the aid, its Coolidge, you it's cool but you didn't have this jealousy thing going on right. So I guess you were accomplished Alfred as well such as it were really wouldn't be there. Yet it was that, but More than that, it was also like a my parents were so focused on Travis that I could tell us. Slide by with a lot of things. You now get out we're we're taken Travis to Lee High for the night,

the nationals for rustling, unlike sweet, I'm gonna have a rage at the house this week, as would you legitimately do that? I legitimately did when you're Parents were gone, you would have raiders yes several times and you end and you did you ever get caught. So tat story. It was my their senior year. He was going to wrestle the national. Perhaps it's it's huge, I, the huge, is toward him he's gonna wrestling. And he goes soon he goes up and we are my best friend and I mom took us out to our breakfast and she's, like I'm, taking out to breakfast before them laughed, they were headed de high for the weekend and my girlfriend Chris and I are sitting there and my mom said doesn't say to me. She says Krista, look me in the eye. You are not having a party at my house this weekend and Krista said I promised MRS Man

we're not gonna have a party she said to this this day, like she's, like I lie to your mom's, faceless strategy, I mean Riyadh, we had the kegs, being delivered. Like you know, within the hour after they were gone and the Party got a little out of control. We were you know we had all these upper class means It was an unlike oh, my gosh, you got. It got ahead of us and so Finally, we get everybody up the house's trashed, and so like a core group of friends were cleaning up the house we're trying to get breathing, taken care of, and I how my mind body durst, there must be twelve bags trash and they said. Take this trash you're on trash, do to get it out of here, get it in dumpster. So he leaves with the trash and I'm feeling pretty proud am I I think I think we can cover this up. You know So my parents come home the next day and Don you know my mom Oxen and she's kind of like looking around legs like jerk people over here,

logistical derive alligator and I'm looking at everything, and we cannot, unlike we got away with this two hours later knock on the door. My mom goes in the answers, the door and there's a lady standing there with all twelve bags of trash at the front door and she's like these were thrown into the field behind my house. She went through the ash sound like because we had taken out the trash would like mail in it found dress and- and I just remembered looking to Travis and who does shook his head when I go away in ya: got teenage kids now and even while government cause now, but I go away for whatever, with my wife or whatever, and leave the kids at home I'd like a guess, we'll have a razor or what I kind of encouraged. Let no they're like dad note. None of our friends will come to our house. They, like don't wanna, come here because of you, Well, ok, I guess that's impossible, so

That's awesome, you guys. I've had its arsenal, didn't have that rivalry, which can which can happen yeah in in a sibling relationships. My kids don't really have any there now that I think about it. What school? What about like competition, like even on a more friendly level, I did. Did you ever feel like you're competing with him ping pong death matches or anything like that mean lesson here now in life? Oh yeah, I mean growing up, I mean as when we were young, like I used to teach them endlessly I mean my aunt tells the story of her wedding. You know in, and she said, oh you did was made Travis cry by teasing. In the entire day we were like and in eleven years old. So we fought like siblings, but I by the time we hit high school. Don't really wasn't competition,

like hey, would I would we get out back in play? Basketball and you know yet that's that sort of stuff, like friendly cup but like there was nothing competitive in terms of our relationship, worked, who? awesome, argued you dive into this little bit more to go to the book here on a wording wouldn't beam in our basement by the bench present on which he would punish himself nightly Travis Road. Goals in permanent black marker they are all american wrestler. First, All catholic lacrosse maintained we point nine GPA I aspirations work, far more modest, rarely recur and, let's be honest, not terribly an admirable while travel, this key performance indicators consisted of great point averages and athletic milestones. Mine work, quantified by a number of points he's attended or class. Skipped without getting caught Travis

work ethic uncommon amongst most sixteen year olds and as his older sister. I found it fascinating and a little unnerving imo, that Travis his ability to set a goal. One year out even two years out and then tyres tirelessly to meet it. Occasionally. I question what Eddic. Material was apt, from my dna that causes quality to skip me, but he never lost sleep about it and though I admired his self discipline and focus on pretty. Travis envied, my vibrant social life and light hearted attitude towards responsibility. Do you gonna be was to other out totally, did you, when you are looking at him, his goals and everything like that, and you say That skipped me, did you ever say? Well, it didn't skip me. I can a goal, and I can go for it. Did you ever did you did that ever crossed her mind, or is that just not party here yet, I mean I have to address them care. For you know I I was. I was happy to take the back seat to his stardom

When you play the crossing college, I didn't mean that that make plain Yeah I mean I. I broke some school records at my egg planks. Lacrosse and you know what and so on You take away anything format, but it was like. I went these three score I played lacrosse. I was the leading score on the team in and it was a lot of fun and Travis would come to my games. I remember Travis came to one of my games in an him in my uncle, Chris were like heckling. The gully because the gully had like had achieved shot at me, I played attack. I was right up front and and so there, like standing behind heckling, the goal we and after the game. You know we win the game and were standing there in the coach says the coaches, like doesn't directly, say anything to me, but she I'm just going to say this right now. If I see anybody's fail. Molly messing with you.

Messing with another team again that so called player will not be playing. My team anyway Xilai cleaving like thanks a lot guys, you know come no one game and you know I'm about. It kicked off the team for where you're doing what, though they do, I mean you gotta a pretty significant impact on the game. I mean there was, it was eight, it was a cheap, shot by her in what you know I shot she came. An whacked me so hard and in an intentional when you know in- and that was my- rather like he was if someone messed with May, like don't mess with meagre in the southern messes with you, he's got a heck of a jack measure. We have your girl, you're gonna, get hacked your guy Maria yeah. So You tell a good story here. It's like up a Saturday night. And there A party going on- and I you have this ideal situation cause. You got your brother, whose kind of the straight and narrow

guys. So that means you have a designated driver. You fighting to go to this party, the party What goes gets kind of wild at it, then the cop show up and so we're going to the book, teenagers scattered Travis Mr, whose or the people you with an eye quickly found one another and joined the mad rush towards back of the house. We barreled through the kitchen nor hop defence that surrounded the property in Spain for the woods behind the house. Those woods were our ticket to freedom. They also represented a blessed escape from the terrifying wrath of my parents, who almost certainly would have disowned me for what would have been my third underage drinking citation in my high school career, see you at the milestones you were making it Are you sure you're running through the woods? There's a foot bridge and somehow you fall off the footbridge which actually the word you use new. You say I got thrown off. The footbridge was,

even well, because there's a hundred kids running over a bridge that this y all trying to hit that same corn gets its own button pushed on. You get to the corridor field and then your good yeah cause. They cannot find you in a corner, not The cops are not chasing us into a cornfield. Now cornfields are crazy, like you can get lost in cornfield I have many times a I'd say you end up you you and have gettin thrown from this footbridge, and you can go now. Look I became aware of a pain coursing through my leg I looked down and saw the machine was covered in blood. My catchy were read so now, Travis like we gotta, get you some help and you guess just out of the. Finally, you are gonna walk back the car and finally, the or was it within sight, but just as we rounded a giant pine tree, a blinding light shone in eyes: busted, hey kids, get over here

Square jawed officer examined us with his flashlight. He wanted names ages and a full account of our whereabouts. That evening, somewhere in the interrogation session, a light bulb seemed. Often his head, his eye softened and his lips turned up into a smile. He wait you're Travis Minion Yes, sir, however wrestling season you ve had kid. Thank you, sir. So then he you know Travis, and a this thing up to get you guys get you guys out. Of our trouble yeah. So this is the Does the kind of thing that you two had gone on? Yeah? It was our data, you're, since you guys are close an age. Did your friends I'll hang out together? Our totally I mean my friends: his friends you go out with any reference he's hung out. Some my friend did you got that he has France little bit

yeah no serious relationship. My kids are like my mama. Oldest three kids are about eighteen to twenty four months apart ass eighteen for the first two. And so there's always about the oldest you are girls and then there's the boy. Yes, but the weird thing is the boys like six free and he's always been taller than them since so out of its, but there's there's like a little in there's like a little line with my kids, the friends all hang around, but there's never been like a release. Ship anywhere yeah. I know I mean I'll tell you like in in. I think it was my was my senior year, my senior year, you know we had had a friend who didn't get asked a prom. Do you know what a sad thing you know and she's like heartbroken about it and, unlike Travis, are taken at a price, the news. I know this girl, like you, take her Romans like fire. Now like yours is kind of like stepped in, I mean

certainly a lot of my friends were enamored by travellers. Up with that way, Travis was the stood yeah All right, so you guys have this autumn relationship and I'm gonna go back now to the day you find out. So here we go. I couldn't believe it. I didn't want to believe it. I collapse in a heap right there on the driveway. I remember thinking that the asphalt felt naturally warm for MID April afternoon that had been mild. It's not fair, it's not fair. I screamed over and over into the sky. I want to make sure that everyone, even God himself knew that he had made a terrible mistake as a scream My parents, neighbours spilled out of their houses to find out what was happening. My dad rush to my side to comfort me. He let me

those tortured screams out of my system before I went about the hard work of trying to understand what had happened and pick up the pieces As it always been the case with my dad, he knew exactly what I needed before I did. I have no dear. How long I lay on the ground screaming. I just know that it was long enough to get the rage out o my system. At some point. One of the neighbors help me up and walked me down the drain. Way toward my house as I walked, I turned around and saw an unfamiliar car parked out in front of the house in my shoes. Fuck, I hadn't even noticed it earlier insides a young man about my age and full military dress blues. His forehead was resting on that but the steering wheel, press between two folded, arms that cradled his head. His eyes were closed and he looked dejected or perhaps unconscious I later learned this poor marine twenty six years old had been charged with the unfortunate

task of sharing the news with the people closer to Travis that he had been killed in Iraq. Captain Eric K Hill, as I learned later learned, his name was had been assigned to carry out the jobs since he was local and a graduated from the naval may the year before my brother, Lieutenant colonel gardener had also been called since the military knew that he was a family friend close by.

Together. While I had been out scouting sites for my boat teak they'd approach, my parents door and knocked my mother opened the door took one look at Corky in the young Marine uniform and slammed the door in their faces. She simply couldn't face. What was on the other side, like I said, that's what every every military family knows, there's only one reason at that person's come in your house in their dress, uniforms and and since since your dad was in the marine corps for whatever twentysomething years than she obviously was This is good as well as anyone, so she wasn't sure she could face what was on the other side. I wasn't sure I could either when I reached.

Front door. With the help of my neighbour I stopped, I had walked through the back door thousands of times before, but this time I won. To turn the other direction and run away. I knew d down in my soul that once I pass through that.

For this time. The life that I had known was over and there was no going back that permanents. I was at the seal teams. I was in the training, command and a guy got the wounded really bad overseas, and somebody called me and said: hey this guy got wounded, really bad and I think the guys that called the guy there two guys on the other end, and I think they were looking for

Like a little bit of sympathy right, like hey, one of the guys got wounded, really bad and I remember saying desired: the initial report, that guy was a really bad, really bad, and then these guys this. This call came probably thirty. Six hours later and I said. Like hey: is he stable and they said yeah he stable and I said well, then, were good, And for them I mean for them, they were still thinking like hey this guy's gonna lose limbs like this guy's gonna being be in really bad shape. But for me, because you know I only come back from Iraq or a little while before I'm lost guys there,

and so for me, the difference between Hey this guy's as messed up as this guy's gonna be, is horrible. The situation is, wounded. He suffered a horrible, but he's gonna be here in this permanence of what You know that's what that's what I was thinking I was reading about. You said when you walk through them. Who the line between life and death is like. It's like you can't even you can't even identified it so so slender

it falls on one side or the other day. I you know I've, I you know you go through that initial phase of shock, but I remember thinking like why couldn't each has been like, why can we be flying to Germany right now? You know and an ivy even had dreams about, like Travis being there, but buddies like super wounded. You know is missing both his legs, but, unlike who cares its Travis? You know I I Of course you take him in any form if they're alive you and it's just that idea- and I think for me you know my mom opened the door? It's I don't. Read about in the book, but like day was a super volatile time when he was there and my mama got an email a week before from the majors wife on the meat team, and she had you know said I can

speak to it now cause she was Canada, the liaison tall, the families. I can't speak to it now, but I just want you to know that something happened last week that was very significant and you're. You know your husbands and sons. What they did is Vienna was incredible: And you know all of us all a mother thinks is well, you know, bad stuff is going and so she leading up to that knock. She was on edge she was on edge that entire deployment, but even more so after that email came, and you know I think that is she tried to every morning when she woke up. She sentiment him email back, but back, but you monument Every day she was sending another care package, the probable

I'm getting to him he's getting to you know Felicia, but where he was, he wasn't having care package has dropped at his door, but it was like those were the things she had to do to like process while he was there like this. What's gonna get me through and that Sunday I think they're there's something about the fact that you know she woke up that morning and just said I want to have people over like it wasn't there was. There is no plan around it and she was a planner so, but that morning she woke up and said Tom: let's have people over so You imagine all these different scenarios, all these different Knox, debt that people get in You know you see, mine, you're, gonna, see Heather's, Amy in the book as well, but Imagine a scenario where. Mother and father opening the door and there's thirty people in the house, you know they are to have a family barbecue, and I remember when I walked in that

or I could see smoke coming off the girl, because my dad had walked to answer that or and left all the meat on the girl, and it's out there like on fire- and I saw you note and it was like it- was pure pandemonium. Like my people, nobody knows what to do, and people are just literally running around the house like screaming. All the women are just like screaming, like door is no sanity in this room, and I think that's why my dad's dislike unrestrained out, miss driveway. You know with with Colonel Varner because just like and then the rest is like all these women and people are coming up like what do you need? Unlike what am I like and the question is that I don't know, I don't even know what what is up right now. You know, but that chaotic scene is something that that plays out a lot

in my mind over and over it now. What time of day was it was like one o clock in the afternoon, and I was I come up for a Sunday barbecue and you know aunts and uncles. Are there my my dad siblings but, as you know, some of my dad siblings, all my mom, siblings, my grandmother, it was my cousins You know it's just that, and my mom was always like kind of the person like coming to my home. You now, let's do something, but just to have those people there when that moment took place,

I remember turning as I turned to walk in the door. I turn and it was my my little cousins and it's my dad sister, my aunt Susan. She was standing there with them, my God, Sun and her two other kids, and they were standing on like this step, going to the back of the house and she's just trying to consult these little kids, who grew up with Travis. I mean literally grew up with him and she should train and I'm just like you, you can't even you can play that scene out in a movie you now I mean you can't even capture what what it was. You knew tat, you talk about that scene and then, and then you say this in all the chaos in furious movement, I locked eyes with my grandmother, who was seated alone in a wheelchair in the dining room, tears stood

Down her cheeks. She was receiving neither comfort nor attention from any one. My heart broke in that instance. I'll. Never forget that image. The rest of the day is a blur. I floated between feelings of painful shock and dark emptiness. When I woke the next morning, I remember what it felt like coming out. Anesthesia from an operation I'd had in college first, one eyelid open cautiously than in the next, but my body remain frozen. My mind was already churning going the details of the previous day and coming to terms with the unalterable fact that my best friend and brother was dead. This marked the first of what turned out to be many anxiety, ridden mornings. That would follow every day. I would slowly and wearily transition from sleep to consciousness. That my overwhelming anxiety wooden me

another appearance, but it always did. Did you ever have the M giver wake up in the morning and forget for like three seconds what had happened. No, I didn't. It was actually more like as soon.

Soon, as I opened my eyes tears, I would be crying like. If I was awake, I was either like non functional. Just like you know, or I was crying and is, and I would say for a good month. I woke up and unlike oh my gosh, I think so, every day for the rest of my life, I'm gonna wake up cry. You know you you're, like you, you go through these basic K. This is the new normal. I will wake up crying every day and I honestly could not wait every night to falsely, because the only time I wasn't in pain was when I was sleeping. So we just like how quickly can my body and end in those moments? It's not easy to sleep bright, so sleep didn't come very easily, so I was so thankful when my body would let me sleep, and you know that was the only time I was necessarily for

I've had experience like when something really bad happens like we have lost friends and I wake up in the morning and for like three set literally three seconds. You know the alarm clock goes off and I know shut off the alarm clock and I know- and everything is like totally normal for like for three seconds and then I take two steps out of my bed and boom I get hit now you all go to meet Travis as he is flown home and we're going to the book the greeting at Dover, with gut wrenching, my parents and I were played by questions in those early days.

That were difficult to ignore who is Travis with when he died? What happened was an instant slowly? The answers started to unfold. We learn that Travis was naturally scheduled to be out on the mission the day that he was killed. At a fellow marine was slated for the patrol, but he wasn't feeling up to a Travis who had been I had to do some humanitarian work at a local rocky school offered to take his place during the course of patrols. I was in his team of Marines were ambushed affair, fight erupted and they were quickly pin down taking fire from three sites Travis, seeing his Navy corpsman shot in line wounded in the middle of the road immediately ran out of line of fire to carry his colleague to safety as the ambush intensified Travis in the end of the line of fire to pull another wounded marine back to safety in a covered position then Travis moved out to take on the ambush. There was now overwhelming his patrol undaunted by the slot. He fired his m two or three grenade launcher. Not an enemy position and then expended a fire.

Storm of round at the other positions before running out of ammunition, his efforts portion enemy back and change, the entire momentum of the ambush, ultimately saving the law lives of his entire patrol. It was. The Travis was shot by a sniper and immediately the enemy began, to pull back his teammates quickly, grab them and provided what emergency medical care they could. He was rushed back to Camp Ilusha where he has pronounced dead by the medical staff that had worked feverishly to try and save him There's no part of that story that doesn't sound just like my brother going to take the worse assigned to help a friend a need that was Travis thinking, about the safety of others before considering his own. That was Travis too,

being the dismal odds that didn't bode well for him and choosing the greatest teeth and answer fire with more fire anyway. Also Travis, my brother was a protector and a warrior in every sense of those terms. I certainly felt As a sister and am proud to know that his fellow Marines got to experience it too, when I learned that he'd been killed by a bullet, I was nervous. I wouldn't be able to stomach the sight of him in an open, casket my mind imagined the worst I was shocked. Then, when the lid of the casket was raised at the viewing to see my brother looking as though you were sleeping peacefully, just as I remembered him. I approached the coffin and rubbed his head has done a hundred times before from the time he was a child,

Travis and always supported a buzz cut and, as I felt the surface of his freshly cut here with my fingertips, I thought yup, that's Travis is it that was Travis and is it's like his whole life woods leading to this moment where he needed to do something beyond what is expected of a human being to do. I hang. You know when you look back,

His childhood, I think he was doing things that were beyond what a ten year old child was supposed to do or would a fifteen year old kid was supposed to do. You know it was like an. They were small moments rate in the whole scheme of things, but they ultimately prepared him for that last day,. I was after MIKE monster got killed him. Came home and I was talking to make your sister and he was she. She was just she just said yet she said when I found out what happened. I wasn't even remotely surprised at all. She said. Oh, he jumped on a grenade and save three of his friends she's

That that's exactly she's gonna want to say that I knew that this would happen, but she said this is no surprise at all. Going back to the book. I stood by his side all day, greeting friends and family who had taken the time to pay their respects, one of travel His best friends and room at the Naval Academy. Brendan loony was on will to make the funeral. He was in San Diego, tending the basic underwater demolition seal school. Meaning programme required for Navy seals leaving to attend the services on the east coast would have surely meant relinquishing his chance to become a seal officer, but Brennan's. For the time Amy, who had also been close to Travis. Did come to say her final goodbye, I remain,

Amy walking up to a casket in bursting into tears. I knew the loss cut her deeply as well. It was a physically and mentally exhausting day and as much as- could hardly bear the idea of standing by the casket one minute longer after hours of doing so. I also and want to imagine that time coming to an end. I knew that after the last

person knelt down to say a prayer in front of Travis? The funeral director was going to close that casket forever and that would be it. I'd never see my brother's face again. I rubbed his head one last time and felt my heart sinking. As my father gently pulled me away,. After the funeral, the burial and the celebration of his life that followed, I remember sitting on the back stairs outside my parents, home the same place where I sought solace in the chaos after first hearing of his death, the winter had melted away in a beautiful spring day had sprung up in its place. Weeks months, it followed. I often found myself outside crouched on that stare and that in those states,

in that same position. Time was passing life was moving on. I was watching It happened. But I was not participating in it. I felt bitterness towards the people who could return to their normal lives, jobs and families. Why sat on the same stare in the same red sweatshirt terrified of what might come next? I am you know when you when you were too in about like saying. Oh, this is just the way it's gonna be from now on. I'm just gonna be crying all the time and I, Had somebody asked me about you know when is this: when does this end? This like? What? How do you get through this?

and the way I tried to explain it is by saying, when you first experience something devastating like this you're going to get hit with these waves and the waves are going to be really powerful, really strong and they're going to come. Really, and what scary about him is big the time you're twenty eight years old, twenty years older. Whatever, however old you are, you ve learned Control, your emotions and all of a sudden you and a situation. We don't have control anymore. And it seems like, like you said, that's just the way it's gonna be from now on. Then what I've noticed is overdue. Those waves they start to lose some strength. Third, not as strong as they were and overtime, those waves day separate and they get further and further power,

and what happens this when I thought of when I read this, this part, did you wrote, is you know the closer you of the person stronger, those waves are no longer takes for that com to apply So when you see other people there already kind of have found some calm again in their moving on it makes you may can make you mad totally. I, You know they have that this twelve stages of grief, I couldn't I couldn't name all twelve stages and in followed, but like I know angers up there and I felt anger. You know and it was just like and it was anger at every one else. Lake screw, you guys, you now were worse. We're just were here, we're live in it and your living there lies on the flip side. We know having some perspective. I thank you for being, therefore,

Thank you for doing what you did. Thank you for leaving your job for a week to support my family. In a year have that mindset when you're in it you like. Oh, you go back to work. You're you're, flying back like woody mean like note your all supposed to be here and You know we're all gonna live together in this house end and supported shut up. You, you think yourself, life is not going to go on the way I was ever get an answer. Was this tat was the scariest parts? It was this. This idea like it was that initial walk through the door and then then everything takes over. You know you go into this autopilot of like we ve got to plan for everything. So it's the anticipation of being at Dover, but that anticipation comes with.

A level of excitement isn't the right word but, like I can't wait till that coughing comes on the playoff to play. Darius he's now with us. You know it's and it's the small steps, and it's like okay next is the viewing. I can't wait to be able to see my brother and then it's like we're close in that casket and it's like other thing you now you walk through that door, the caskets closing the funeral mass happens. Everyone comes back, you ve got hundreds and hundreds of people at a reception and then it's like that lasts bag. A trash is taken out by the neighbour and they say bye and your like, oh crap. Now we actually really have to think about what this means in our cause, you're just kind of going through this process.

By the way I failed to mention the so far, I'm not reading the whole book, and so, if there's some things that are jumping around or whatever that's, why? I'm not here to do an audio version of this book, but that's why I'm reading chunks of it, but you ve, got all kinds of detail in there that I'm not going over and connecting these chunks and I'm reading. So that's why people should just by the books. I haven't said that yet, but if there is anything that scene jumpy. That's why it is job because I'm jumping around from section a section you continue on here. It was hard to believe that only weeks before I've been so happy Bliss free, blissfully ignorant of how what my life would be cruelly abroad We and permanently changed. I remember sitting in my kitchen two weeks before Travis died. I was watching my baby girl, all nine and a half months old, pull herself up to stand on answered

wobbly legs. She stood with her chubby hands on the screen door. She stood next to our dog pop and giggled excitedly. As she peered outside and watched a bunny rabbit hop around the backyard life is so completely perfect. I remember thinking at that moment I was happy new mom had a fantastic relationship with my husband Business was good and Travis. We back in time for the grand opening of my second store. I felt wholly in control and at peace. To this day that peaceful feeling sometimes comes back to me for a moment when life feels effortless my mind at ease in all seems right in the world, but now it dissolves in an instant. In fact, as soon as I experienced that kind of serenity, I become terrified what terrible tragedy is going to shatter this picture of perfect peace? I asked myself, I still wonder of the sense of call my experience that day had been a harp had been a harbinger of the doomed to come?

I worry that I was foolish for not having recognised it for what it was The signs of catastrophe were right in front of me. How could I been? oh blind. This train of thought is, of course, completely paranoid and insane. So do you feel that now to this day yeah, you know I I do. I don't have many times. Were life fails effortless anymore, but you know I I remember that feeling I had that day in my house. I remember that feeling so vividly just it was this wave that came over me where I was like. Oh my gosh like this is what a great life I have you know like looking

at my new daughter and I'm just an end. I think I just got off the phone with Travis like a day or two prior and and our conversations had nothing to do with what he was doing and I ran he liked talk to me about. You know what we're gonna men's brands. Did you for the store you now. It is a cool stuff end, and so it was just like the super peaceful feeling, and I lived up to that point not really fearful of anything. And you know I certainly today, I'm I'm certainly afraid of I'm afraid when I get a random call, I'm afraid when my husband calls me twice in a row. You know those things can set me into a different place taken.

Bacon. Certainly you know I my favorite show was my favorite show was big love. That was an HBO series, unlike polygamy, and it was really popular when scripted series when around that time- and I love the show with who's the guy who was in it- is since passed away, but anyway child who Paxton it was built packs and yet for with the out from those words her. Yet there was a great shout and I remember watching that show in, and these are the things that you don't realize. You're gonna happen some watching the show, and it's like

series finale and it was those little things I was like. This is Post Travis S, death and unlike well. You know big gloves on that's something I can enjoy a watch. This season, finale an watch, the finale and on the finale like the head. Pole head, polygamous, get shot and he had shot on the street and what watching him get shot? It sent me into a full blown. Panic attack it with such a visceral reaction that I wasn't expecting that is its stunned me, and I was like. Oh my god I can. I can see that I mean my my five year old walks around he's got a little like pistol. That was that was Dave's. My husband's Annie brought my mother law found it and she brought it back about a month ago in its the cutest little thing with the holster, and I can't be right,

Travis holding at my little Travis holding it it it. I'm like David there's something about like guns. Now you know they're seeing them pointed being shot like it sends me in a bad place you know when it's it's those sorts of things that you don't you don't realize until little, but after the fact that ok, these are the residual, facts and some of them go away and some of em don't you know that in some of them just start up, part of who you are now and I've definitely ay a jump. Your person, you know like yours, I'm so, unlike what would happen in our where, before I was not like that, I was kind of like something you know.

You drop talk a little bit about that more here. You say the fear and paranoia that follow in the wake of grief can create a tremendous, robotic stunts our personal growth and darkens our overall sense of well being some people respond to unexpected. Trying situations with passive acquiescence and others with fire and fury. I respond by heightening my vigilance after Travis s death, I found myself compelled to be wary I was always on the lookout for the next great tragedy to befall me. This hurled me down some very dark and troublesome paths from panic, attacks to self destructive behaviors, but also- me too. Some amazing gifts like recovering my sense of humour and living with intention. What self destructive behaviors did you pick up? I mean, I think you know

self destructive in a way that you know I stopped kind of taking care myself. You know you, I I go into the next place where I'm talking about you know, I decide to run a marathon, but I'm running a marathon smoking a pack of cigarettes a day, and you know I'm drinking a lot and I'm just kind of like I'm going to do this, but on the same token, you know this is kind of who I am now in now and you know with the with that that hyper sense of paranoia. You know I really went into some these ideas of and I know what I know- the reasoning behind it. If I can look back and like psychoanalyze myself when Travis was in Iraq, I was not worried about him and when he was there, the first time when he was there,

The second time, even though I knew the second deployment with different, I was aware of that, because my husband told me he's ok, this is gonna, be different. You know I've had conversations with their brother, but I had no fear of my book. Are being in Iraq. It was this notion of more than anything you think about like these crazy stories. Raid on you know, the iceberg or lay at genoa. I, echo falling off a garage like impelling a woman on her head rate, and it's like these totally crazy stories in your like that, so crazy. What I mean, it's never gonna happen to you right. It's like the plane crash theory like wildfire planes, but you know you tell your kids. Planes are plain sown crash. You know, you're not come into play in the crash is so you don't think about that happening to you and that maybe was a defence mechanism, but that's how I got through. As being in Iraq. I wasn't you know

I didn't show any fear. I didn't show any eye, and I didn't even have any fear that I didn't show it. I really didn't happen. I let those emotions all go so then, when it did happen, it was like. I guess, when you do this idea, like preparing rate where you're it's almost like, I knew this was coming. Like you hear, people like, I knew it. I knew it re like. I had no idea and so to have something shock. Your system that much, I think, a kind of requires. You wear your kind of waiting for that next shock to the system you know you lead on throughout the Balkan, and I've had other things that have happened since were I know like there's no I'm is void of having something happen, you know whether it's random in nature, I've had a lot of random crappy. Things happen to me in over the last several years.

I guess it's similar again. This is something I just talked about: Jim, certainly who's on the last podcast was in Vietnam and the range of level of fear that guy's have To combat there's some people that are scared there, like they think they're gonna die right and there's somebody that kind of like that will actually not happen to me, like I'm, on I gotta die in that was gonna. His attitude was youth, you're, you're thinking all that, Like Evangelical, Vietnam? He wasn't like I'm going to try and go Vietnam and I might die. He was like I'm volunteering to go to Vietnam and I'm going to do my job. And so I guess it's no surprise for some people. On the family side to think well, yeah, that's not gonna happen to my loved one eye, I've never really asked my parents this, I don't think my parents ever fought. Anything would ever happen to me ever, I thought. Maybe they just thought I was just doing and guess whatever part

That is because I I kind of income. Them to just not never knowing what I was doing ever and I was in for a long time before the war started either already been in for thirteen years, so they never knew that. I was jumping out our are doing whatever I was doing it so when the war started stillborn deployments like I'd always gone, I been I'd gone. Appointments I got on five deployment before I went to Iraq so that to them there is no he's goin on another deployment will hear from him in six months. Whatever my wife, maybe the same thing but until like when, when I was in romanian, my wife was at home and she's gonna, my guys funerals and when

that happens. Every single family member that there is thinking that the person that was killed could easily be. You know my husband, my brother, my son. Now you talk a little bit about just this idea of grief. The fact is, grief will transform you And you ve got, will italicized, which I think is important, because your say listen like you. Could I, Guess where I think that's the deal Definitely that you made in that statement is of hey, I can get through this everything's I'll, be back to the way things were an you're saying. No, the fact is, Greece will transform you with

You are greeting the loss of an identity that you once had or the loss of a loved one. At some point, you will look in the mirror and see someone. You simply don't recognize staring back EU. It is inevitable. Maybe you should Maybe you'll be proud of what you see and maybe you'll be ashamed at some point. I bet you be both. I bet you will be both the most. Important thing you can tell yourself is that you get the last word. Only you can determine how your experiences will change you and only you can be held accountable for that transformation. So these are. These are powerful fix. I wrote a book and I guess I talk about an attitude of extreme ownership of taking ownership or what on an near. There is always someone that wants to make

Different points are trying to be positive about this people at Wanta that people feel that want to test the theory right, shouting ownership and so one of them things that can happen. As you know, I got cancer, that's not my fault. How do I take ownership of that and it's like while you're right, you can't take ownership of the fact that you got cancer. You take ownership of how you respond to it right and adjust was out with working with a group of people and one of the guys that cancer- and he was like, has started, listen the podcast and he's. I listened to your podcast for seven hours a day every day, the whole time I was in the hospital only which makes me feel good having five hundred hours will get it, but that's what he did. He took ownership of how we responded mate and what you're saying here look you're good at someone's gonna happen. There's gonna be changes, but you do have. What do you say that

you get the last word right? Why think you know one of the things that I have people still to this day say you know, and and and I'm twelve years out from the loss of my brother, seven years out from watching my mom. And nine years out from the loss of Brandon Raid and and people will say you know, when does when you stop grieving and I'll even have people that have newly lost someone like explain this grief process like when is it going to end and very clear to tell them it. Doesn't it never ends? I'm not going to say, don't worry, you know in the year it over, because everybody's journey is their own, but d,

the matter, is that I entered into my. Do you want to call it grief journey in in a way that wasn't best. For me rate, I wasn't it was a it was a process? And now, when you look at like talking about looking in the mirror and argue the person. Want to be like when I look in the mirror today I'm the person that I Travis saw when he was alive. I that's and so that for me is like that with my wake up, unlike okay, so this is what the grief of my brother has done to me. It's actually allowed me to become the person I should have been when he was here. I was a guy in the park cast his numerous Tom five years. He was, he was in World war to Korea and Vietnam, and here

he was a purple heart recipient from all those wars and he was a battalion commander in Vietnam and I was talking to him about it and, like I asked him, you know. Basically, you know, I think I asked him how many casualties did you take or how many guys did you lose in a battalion commander, and so this is, I don't know fifty or sixty years later and he got choked up and would not happen. I thought to myself all the, emotions that I have there never gonna go away here. Then. That is the way it is and there's nothing wrong with that. You know the waves get the waves git.

More separation between him over time, but those waves can hit you at any time, and I think you know what I find now is the further you get out the waves The comment like really inopportune times, so I'm not an incredibly emotional person to begin with that bout of the first month after traps, his death was pry the most crying I've ever. On my entire life, but it was like it was in involuntary response like I could die. There was no that's just what it was and I, if I was out in public, I had on the biggest sunglasses you could possibly find is. I did not. I get uncomfortable when people see me emotional and oh I was. I had tried to cover it. S

now today you know the way those waves come it it's. It could be something so small that so one says or something I see It doesn't matter where I am, and it's just like. Oh my god, and it kind of like takes your breath away, takes you back to that place, and you know I do a lot of public speaking and and and I share Travis historian and everyone's like. I don't know how you do that without breaking down and I'm like. Listen, that's not the time I need to break down like I'm. I'm there to do a job, I'm there to share that story and make sure that you hear that story, but if you think for one second, that there aren't time. Driving in the car and asylum comes on or em out in IRAN or I'm sitting there looking at my kids and you know, yeah that still happens and ended, and it doesn't come is as often but like you said, you know fifty sixty years out a service member talking about his friends like that's, never going to go away, and nor would I want

two exactly exactly you continue on here, like any one who has received a jarring knock at the door, literal or figurative, and that's what's important. You again, since I'm jumping around this book. You know that there is the metaphorical knock at the door that a service members family can receive. But the knock on the door can be anything short of anything that is unexpected in your life in everyone's gonna. Get him in your life. You're gonna get a knock at the door that that you want to do what your mom did, which slammed the door and don't let it come in, but its common I've been too the darkest deepest ugliest quarters. In my mind, and I've learned a thing or two- I dont hoped Bear you the hurt or pain that comes with a knock. I regret it. I dont, hope to spare you the hurt or pain that comes with the knock. I dont think that I could

I only hope to share the lessons I learned in the process, the ones that have the power to transform you in all the right ways and remind you that you are not alone. So yeah you you're not saying that you can make the pang away it's gonna hurt, but there's there's steps you can take to move through. That hurt that make more sense like he's. Looking back at this book is all built on perspective. I'll tell you that in our I mean I I couldn't rip this book even five years ago, and now I mean it, it took wealth years to be able to say: ok, I'm ready to put penda paper and listen. I'm no expert, but I've got a lot of experience in grief. You know so I'm gonna kind of share share my thoughts on

well. It helps any time you can have any time you can see. Some thing unfold for someone else. That makes you able to better handle yourself to one hundred percent. That's why I read more books all the time, so I was able to try and figure out what was happening in combat, even if I never seen before. I've seen it before. You say this. In the early days after Travis was killed. My decision making more impulsive than rational impulsive decisions can be catastrophic and a few of mine have been, but they ve also great way for me to channel my nervous energy. I think so Firstly, I believe that, as long as I was doing something anything then I would have to then I wouldn't have to acknowledge the intense pain that was overtaken my spirit and fighting to get out too before Travis was killed. He called home from Iraq. I wanted. I want to run the Marine corps marathon. He told my dad that's great. I have my dad responded and I want you to run it with me. He finished my father.

Then in his early fifties and in solid shape, but this was no small request. After running the Marine Corps Marathon, a couple times when I was younger, my dad had retired is marathon shoes forever. He thought was about to say no to his son fighting, For thousands of miles away, let's do it, he replied in MID May when the funeral services were over and my parents extended family and friends were gathered in the living room. My dad remembered his promise to Travis still gonna run that marathon. He proclaimed to the quiet gathering of distraught, dumbstruck family members all run to Tom said Chris, my dad youngest brother, I mean echoed his wife. Susan one by one. People picked up their heads hardened. Days and joined him pretty soon every single person in this room and committed to twenty six point two miles in honour of Travis. I conveniently engrossed in a thread and the carpet when I felt a dozen pairs of eyes landing intently. On my face, I looked up now. I'd better African College

but that was almost five years earlier had given birth to Maggie only ten months before and had run so much as a I've k in ages, but those stairs were burning a whole right through my skin and thankfully my boy headedness kicked in all right I'll do it. I said I mean how hard could it be Do you get done with your first trading run at the end of that first, one mile run wheezing for Sweden doubled over and pain. I gave myself a little pat on the back. Do you Brian. You did today's run. Your done now go home, drink some water and chill, but me damn sure you show up for tomorrow's run and that's how it went every day for four and a half months, no matter how slow uglier painful the run might have been. I completed it. There is no time six point two mile run ahead of me. There was no twenty six point. Two mile ahead of me. There was our today as he was says: there's only one way to eat an elephant one by, at a time see you talk about your training photos Oh you, you got Travis his Ipod yeah House,

was that it was also came back in his foot locker and unlike our aid, and he was so in the music I and we both shared like a deep love of music. We went to concerts together all the time, and so that like exciting- I didn't have an ipod at the time, so it came back into his will and unlike gosh, I hope and get this thing work in and you know plugged it in and I was like all right: they're yo, it's crazy! You think that these digital memories of people I mean- and even I mean today, you re, the digital memories of people can be crazy. Guy I mean it's just you can have all the images and videos in writing in posts and all the stuff for people, and even just something like that. What is it twelve years ago? You know this. Ipod. You know you fast. You could provide another twenty

behind that there's! No, I pod there's no there's that you might have a mix tape. I guess why look too it's interesting like- and I remember talking to Travis on his first deployment. Unlike let me set you up a myspace profile, not doing that come on end and you know so. He had no imprint on social media at all, but just a few years later, you know when Brandon was killed. I was Facebook friends with then Brendan had a facebook page. You know, and it was just that that's small that small time, but to have that ipod to cool thing about it. For me, that it wasn't just like it was Travis his ipod, unlike that this is what he was taking in when he was I wrap year for sure you now so like I'm listening to it in, I just felt it. It felt such a deep connection with where he had been. It's so cool about that. What you just said, you even realise how right you are because, like I had my Ipod in Iraq, my last point, which was two thousand sex and

those songs, but what it, however, many songs were on my ipod at the time like whatever two hundred fifteen songs or whatever was there whenever I hear Le Sondra. Now I'm right back. Coming too, I was one hundred percent listening to the same silent over and over and over and over again- and I am now back. I hear any of those zones on brought back to training for that merits. That's where they bring me back to him so these are about the training and then we go as the big date approached this for the marathon, my family and I headed to Washington, through which the marathon course runs the night before the race. We held a dinner for our team which by now it on two nearly a hundred people answer of course, cousins. Friends, neighbours, lacrosse wrestling buttered bodies, fellow Marines, enable academy grads, all the more participating to honour my brother at did, at a hotel. We invited a few people, including Brendan Loony, who is to say a few words Brennan's sound me at the microphone he stared. He started in about how Travis had been a brother to him and how we,

I believe he was gone. He was a great friend Brendan said I'll never forget him and I miss him. He'd been shown bacteria and finally, his voice broke. I have to out of this room. I thought I simply couldn't Watch this tough Navy seal break down ass. He remembered my brother. It was too much slipped out of the hotel and found myself gulping in the car, fall outside my head was spinning and I couldn't help but feel that I was learning. First time that Travis was gone forever lit a cigarette. It on and off habit of mine over the years when the Travis it always chastised me about. Maybe day I'll write a book about what not to do and running a marathon change, Ok, the night before the race, woods, Make the list but it's not even the worst transgression of committed. Fortunately, for you, this isn't a bucket. During training. It's a book about grief which perhaps isn't so different,

The key to navigating grief I found is to have the courage to allow it to transform you same same theme like accepting the fact that its make you different. I've had to remind myself time and time again we're on human, we can wait, take so much don't be so hard on yourself when you take one step: board and several steps back. You made it this far. You got up today, put one foot in front of the other. You complete, Today's run, go home, relax and get ready for tomorrow's now you get into the marathon, which is a great story. I'm jumping ahead a little bit here but two mile nineteen and I still at seven point two miles to complete at this point- the wheels at all but come off. My brain was no longer able to bully my body into behaving my knees. My ankles, my arches everything was rebelling I'd, mode to walk and began to debate. With myself been begin, the debate with myself that any distant run

since runner knows well. Eighty miles is great. You should be proud of yourself no shame stopping here. You just lost your brother for I'd say, did you and we expect you to get this far call it now leave with your dignity and your joints intact. So you haven't that the core There's conversation total the quitters conversation you're having it but not a quarter, so I made one last ditch effort internet I reach into my fanny I can rifled through my unused power, gels and energy beans until my fingers rested on the mass card with Travis, Face on November nineteen nineteen, eighty two April, twenty nine, two thousand and seven twenty six years old I gripped tightly and offered silent prayer. This is it Travis. The marine corps marathon course ends at the. U S Marine corps war

Memorial, a statue based on the iconic picture of six Marines struggling to raise a flagpole on the island of you, oh GMO, during world war to its incredibly powerful site, and when you come upon it, you feel every bit as tired and a strong as those men huddled together, appear to be as they raise the american flag. I didn't care of. My leg fell off in that very moment. I was not walking up that hill. I hustled into a full sprint: bounded over crushed plastic cops and passed. Exhausted runners, somehow I felt my legs were fresh. In reality I was probably every bit the Frankenstein I'd appeared to be a mile nineteen, just in our older what I actually look like I can't say for sure

I'd rather not imagined, but I push forward and grabbed Aunt Susan's hand as together we crossed the finish line. Then I collapsed. I can honestly say that I'm a different person because of that race, pushing myself through that training and navigating the emotional straining physical stress taught me a lot about myself and even more about grief, it took me years to process my brother's deaf and years more to organise my faults around what wisdom I could possibly gain from it. It's only after more than a decade of reflection, and I can share what I now know. And here you kind of lay some of these out. First, what you don't know can't hear it can't hurt you, which is an interesting concept. What what you don't know can't hurt? You were hear me out. I know this advice is usually given sarcastically and that can be good reason, but consider for a moment the wisdom. In that phrase, Sir

times. Being naive is a blessing if I had known the fish, go mental. An emotional told that the race would have taken on me. I wouldn't run it. I would Come paralyzed with fear and self doubt in my eyes would have remained forever fixed on that threaten the carpet, but fear and self doubt often keep us from knowing our own strength and that's something. We simply can't risk. If I'd never run that risk race, I would never have discovered what I was capable of achieving preparation and training are great tools. They provide us with confidence to dream as big as we want to, but without a healthy dose. Fearless ignorance, we might never bother dreaming at all. Interesting advice. Yeah I like it. It's advice. I still follow to this day I mean it's, it's kind of I'm. I will say you know: Pre Travis didn't really live with fear.

Right, but I didn't really do anything to be fearful of, and today I I. I definitely have those psych? I say I'm on edge. Is on edge, but am also on edge in a way that, unlike what snacks like em like hungry, for, what's next and I the things that I have done over the last twelve years. I don't even know if I could pick five of them that I would have done. Pre, two thousand and seven or frankly had any interesting I mean had traversed come home. Nobody, you see, tribes, place a call from Iraq to my dad to say, run the marathon he wasn't call me to say, run the marathon that wasn't even a thought in his head, because he knew that there's no way. I would even consider running a marathon and I've just kind of approached thing. As like, I'm just gonna. Do it, you know. What's the worst, that can happen

and you do you have this like. What's my brother is dead? What's the worst that can happen, you know I don't make it. I dont make I dont finish the race and you know it in that was twelve years ago, and that was my- I remember saying due to finish it marathon and then I'm gonna, be what to say. I ran a marathon and am, and people like, oh you're, gonna get the bog once you run wine you're. An I was like I'd, never got the bog. Unlike nope, I have my check Mark say when people say Omar and unlike irony in our and bought I dont, know what changed by. Here. I am again like twelve years later and am rocking the Marine corps marathon in a week and one forty pounds got no twenty pound twenty pounds. Yeah look here,

yeah I send, and this is a person who has never rocked before so I go well. I we have a fantastic partnership with go rock go rock community, and so I get to meet the founder of could go rock government. Jason Mccarthy, I've, not these great Guy West Point Grad, and he just has this fabulous community. I don't understand it, but I knew that the people are connected with the tribesmen foundation. Loved rocking, so am I offer so they asked me to do this promotional, video with Jason and to pilot our worship ship and were in Georgia were their filming us the? walking around a lake uneasy. Get Reiner rucksack, and so I put this rucksack Allah. This set up Pre Edward big turn. I mean the rucksack like newspaper dislike, okay, so I can be suspended, as he anyway Splaining. The theory of rocking is like the name About it, just like you

pace, is always at a conversation all pace in unknown and, like I like that, like I like that, I can sit here and talk to you were exercising in these talks about the benefits of it from a child perspective, like you bring your kids, because they're gonna, we walk in slow, but you just put more weight on and you're getting to work out so conceptually unlike ok, I like it, Will later that night we were at a summit we had like a hundred veterans through to trust me foundation we brought for like leadership training, and later that night everybody's by the bonfire and were few drinks in everybody. Talking about rocking the marathon and- and it was like another one of those scenes instead In my parents living room on be happier, you know around a bonfire with a bunch of veterans and their leg on I'm in Iraq, the marathon amateur and it was. I came to me like I'm right.

In the maritime, and I woke up the next day. I was I I don't know from rock in the marathon. Then I get back to Philadelphia and a rock sack shows up at my front door, and I was like crap the european right. I guess I'm rock in America I was. I was taught Travis Mills yeah, I loved Travis, is awesome, go you're, Talkin about How can you might like? Why did you and he was a tall stored in high school? Poor boy- set records the keys, and he just like a beast of human activity and in I said to him: why you go to like special forces are ones could arrange squeeze. I got enough, I could make it and I was like all that's funny, because I, as a young eighteen year old kid. When I joined the Navy. I had enough of this right here right enough of

What do you say either at scare wireless ignorance, yeah? No, I was I was like an average aff. We and I was like ass, your training all whatever you know it, here's a total start. That was, he was kind enough. I can make us. I know you didn't, have a human, eminent, fearless ignorance, but the same thing I find that a lot with these young kids that some kid that want to be seals, but I mean you can come to my gym here and I really wanted to go see those. But I know if I can make it home man you're in better shape than I have re, but you gotta have a little bit a fearless ignorance, yeah and a little but yeah Erin, hey, I'm using my fear, less ignorance again to rock this marathon, I'm just you know by, but that also comes coupled with knowing how hard a marathon XO

Christa, who a lot of this book you know she's at convinced her to rock the marathon with me. She's never done a marathon before and we eighty miles last week- and she said I. Great like this, great I feel like I can keep going on like yours, and is that last seven point two miles that puts you over the edge of my she has. The fearless ignorance is no idea got right where you are like high now, so I like I'd rather be in your shoes right now. The next piece of advice from the section second, embrasure support, system relationships or everything. Friends family in love once can get us through our Augustine Satis moments. We just need to let them our friend families feed, are wild ambitions. They join lean lovingly protect us from our own self destructive habits. They list if this up and we can't go another step with a loving support system, we can afford to be a little naive, be bold, be fearless Don't do it alone. You are human

and you are one person allow yourself to be carried forward by those who love you in your last piece of advice in a second and finally don't wait. I beg you, please don't wait, I had no idea how tough I was. Why did I until my brother was dead to find out my regret of that marathon in two thousand and seven was that it didn't take place in two thousand and six you know who would have loved to run and train with me Travis, something like that which required? focus and discipline was far more oppositely than mine. He would have been so proud and we would have had a ball together. There are so many things I wish I could have done together wish we could have done together,

I'm not the same woman. He knew when he was alive, I'm better and stronger. Why did I wait for him to disappear before I became the woman? I wanted to be, don't wait, don't we. The continuing on in two thousand and seven. If you were a graph, my emotions for that year, you would produce an interesting line, a fairly stable, higher horizontal line of contentment for the beginning, the year a drastic drop in April when Travis died gradual, climb back up toward happiness, the marathon six months later. I was so grateful to have something to folk song. They help the pieces of my wife back together after the lost. My brother precisely the medicine I needed, but by winner my line was dropping again The decline in my happiness and wellbeing was persistent, steady and, interestingly, almost undetectable,

I of course knew that my life had been far better Travis was in it, but I was managing wasn't I after I was getting up going to work being a mom. I was running errands, knocking out personal goals? I was socializing and even laughing in finding joy here and there by any extorted exe. The barometer. I was improving wounded, no doubt, but I was happy but grief very much an internal battle. It's not kind enough to play by the rules, and it certainly doesn't register on end emotional barometer. It can be deceptive and believe it or not. So can you in fact I would wager that no one can deceive you as effectively as you can see yourself. Grief, pain, sadness. These few like disadvantages. They Fred, our survival. So naturally we shall we convince yourself with Vince ourselves that they ve gone away. This is precisely what I did and it's amazing what I managed to hide from myself and for

I want my emotional slope continued to creep stealthily downward. For several years, a continued right under my nose until Christmas night of two thousand twelve, when I reach rock bottom. But this If my deterioration had been planted several years before now, we ve about your brother and obviously adjured down on the podcast, we're too about your mom a little bit. Mrs, how you describe your mom JANET, JANET Mannion was a tough, optimistic and focused made every decision with self assurance as if, despite any concerns or doubts that she may have been harbouring excise duties, the worries they were there. Of course they had to be. She simply would not allow them to triumph over. She had coolly and willpower. Four years after Travis Death, my mother continued to be the picture of stalwart strength,

she ate in a way that only a moderate mother who is buried her son can, but she never let it keep her down. It was especially disorienting for me. Then, when I learned a few years later, that my mother, this pennant of courage for our family, had only eight months to live. Got the news in two thousand eleven for years after Travis Death, a surgery revealed that stage for lung cancer had spread throughout her body eight months after eight months later, a few days before the fifth anniversary of Travis Death, my mother joined him in Heaven and only five years, my only sibling and my mother had died.

My family for had been reduced to two I was devastated. No marathon was going to make this loss any easier to bear. I had no idea where to turn for help. I simply couldn't stomach for thought of picking up the pieces. Once again, I hadn't even collected them all the first time in the months after my mother's deaf on April, twenty four two thousand and twelve, I turned to the methods of coping. Then it become familiar to me. I threw myself and my work and into my family's busy schedule. I set small goals losing weight, reading, running anything, to keep waking up every day and moving it worked before had net it could work again. I figured I was wrong

no, I think when I look at the five year span between Travis and my mom, I kind of I'll say I peaked in terms of like with that marathon. It was like I'm gonna, do this, you know an and then from there it just became this idea. Like I talk now like when people ask me, does grief end like no, it does it. Bite at that time, I didn't know that, and so I thought grief grief was over for me. Did you have any? Was there any indication of what was Gunnar was going to happen with your mom? No, I mean if you looked at my family dynamic after Travis was killed. She was

the Sparta woman that had taken over and was leading the charge, and it was kind of my dad nigh following behind her I mean I can't put into words the the strength that she displayed an end now with three kids. My own, I can't even opinion fathomed, and so you know I was doing things between those five years. She had started the Travis banning Foundation and at first my dad. I looked at it as almost a labour of love. It was like okay. This is good the small memorial finding will He bore distract, I mean seriously. We had those conversations like great way for her to channel her grief to work through thing. She can help people locally, that's how we saw it. That is that is so funny because years undergone all that's right. She's, like got a master plan gas.

It was like a couldn't. Looking back, it couldn't have been more short sighted on our part, two that she was just gonna Lahti, LA around town, you know in be like I've got a memorial fine like no, I mean She right away was like we're going to be one of the I mean she would say things like our nine eleven hearers run. This was like a five k, run that we had the year after Travis was killed. Now eleven heroes run. It was three hundred people in Doyle's town Pennsylvania in some suburban town outside of Philadelphia, and I was like this is so cool like great right Greek, the community out and my mom comes up and she's like I want this. Be the Susan and G Comin race for the cure for our military community. We need one of these in every city and state across the country, and unlike and you know my dad- I would be like Uncle John, like, like I raw like why don't we just try to get like

thousand people at the run next year. You now that would be like a Google, but you know you look it here we are today we ve got. We just finished our researchers, Ninety runs across the world brought out sixty thousand people JANET wasn't play. Are their dues g comin race for the cure for the military community? You now bringing awareness to our a tearing first responders, and so you know I watching her. Do that and I join the foundation in early the two thousand and ten an aim just kind of I mean my title was executive director you're. My real Tito was JANET minions Assistant, You know I mean I was her assistant and I was happy to to be that and to play that role because, frankly, I had no idea what I was doing enough.

Following behind her and just kind of it. It was like You know she was teaching me in a way that it was. I watching everything that she did. I was trying. You emulate how she was doing it. She was so bold and fear less like she would. She had no problem asking anyone for anything, and I wish I could if I can just hang around her enough to gain some of that experience and so Our time was so limited that I was a to do that with her till the time she was diagnosed with cancer and it was another. One of those just slake got punches, but it came in like a different form, as opposed to like knock gone rate. It comes as my arm hurts. Your kid was

you know being a pain in the bar and when I try to pick her up, she wiggled out of my arm and we're down at the beach and oh mom through some, though some ice on it. You know, and we get back home and she's? I got my arm still hurts not incredibly swollen or anything like haven't you don't think anything that, and so it's like couple days later. I think I'm going to get my own checked out or I ll go with you go down or fish because our friend, whose an orthopedic hey, can you run an x ray on me? I think I made a broke. My arm, Jack one in it. Now we left the foundation office we go in, they give. X ray any comes out, and I just you just you knew any comes out. Ah, she have oh break there, but I want to send you down to my friend pen to take a look at it because it there's, you know just two

she said, get another lock and you know get another opinion. Aren't you just told me? I broke my arm, you're not going to cast it, and I'm like this is weird, so I'll make an appointment. Let's get you down there to Morrow and we show up at the office, and it was my mom, my god, and I never we walk up and it's like doktor someone so orthopedic oncologists and we were like what you know. And unlike my mom, has bone cancer. You know. That's all thinking like why and so she goes into surgery the next day and you know you don't know what a diagnosis looks like it's like she's got a tumor in her arm. Ok, that's the most random thing. I've ever heard my life and there like. Well. She had a tumor, an arm, we removed it, but the tumor din, Jim didn't start there. So now we have to figure out like where it came from, but that also means

wherever came from, it has spread, and so it's like another and that night, my parents, our slated, my mom's in a bed at university, Pennsylvania Hospital and my parents are supposed to be getting thee Commodore bury citizen of the Year award presented to them by general Dumford and so dad my head to the event? We come back, and we get back to the room and the doctors like guides started in her long, its inner brain, its inner back, emanate it. It was everywhere and not one symptom at all like not one symptom. She was not smoking cigarettes while training for a marathon. You know I mean it was. It was crazy. It was like how does how does this then you now and I've read,

a lot of studies on like grief manifestation with stress and how, like your body, sometimes can let go of certain cells. When you are experiencing trauma, and I think there's I mean I have to leave, there's something to say too that you know Brennan Loony mom died three years after he was killed from cancer. So I mean I did. The coincidence is r r a lot, but you know the doctors tell us like you, ve got eight months to live with treatment. If you decide to go the treatment rout, it's just gonna help. Prolonging what we're gonna give you about eight months. My mom never really took that and was like it. She didn't do. One of these I've got eight months alive. This is what I'm gonna do she was just like. Ok, I'm sorry, my treatment and I went to keep working show. You know you're diagnosed with stage

cancer and she's back in the office. The next day, and she stand in there with a you know a around her arm where she just had surgery but like it was, it was a little off putting because nothing changed. It wasn't like. Kay everything changes now what she was like now, we ve got a. We got a job to do And it wasn t until the very end when her huh started to take a bit of a decline that I took on more of a caretaker role with her, but this was like it was like eight months and six and a half of those months were just you would have never known thing was different, so you know she's gonna, chemo treatments, maybe she sick for day she's back in the office in exile, Vet, You know she serving. She had an appointment your point minute, Arlington she certain Arlington Committee and

oh she's she's taken calls and you do you and meetings from her bedside you now. And so she she kind of kept focus on. She didn't focus on what her her illness. She focused on everything else, and it just got to the point at the end where her body, when allow her to keep going like that, but it was it was. You know two weeks where she was really we're, like oh you're, you're, sick, but the rest of the time you would have really never known. You know. People look at pictures of my and unlike air, that's just a couple weeks before they d she died nor, like what could she loves? You know the image in your head of someone with dying of state for cancer of late. She just didn't. Look like that you're. What were you thinking this whole time? I was very pragmatic. I was like my mom's dying in eight months. I I did not

my dad on the other side was like I'm not listening to that dares. There's miracles happen every day, which is got it. You know, stay the course things. See if there's trials, you know their try and all sorts of different holistic die. And ass. I was very much supportive of that letter. Everything and anything, but I must also- jaded at that point, in life a little bit that I was like yeah I mean we got. We got eight months. Let's see what these eight months look like. You you say here, grief is a savage and shrewd beast that isn't easily tamed I found a method of funding off my grief that work for me fought on and found a new mode of attack, Sting oh oriented and tough minded got me only so far.

Then the year my mother died on Christmas night, two thousand twelve. It came to find me in my home, your mom dies in you again. This is all stuff. You talk about in the book The parties that you guys have these big Christmas, partisan, they're gonna, go. They ve gone from generation to generation and your grandparents item that your parents, adamant, so now dear to answer you his big party- and you know that the pandemonium. Whatever of a party in planning and all that stuff, and then there parties overrun after the after the power, do you lay down, you know, you're, a brute really from doing the work of getting a ready and you're tired. But here we go back to the book, but sleep didn't come something much now, you're a in its place. I felt like I received direct punched. The gut and my eyes immediately sprang open. I started hyper ventilating, I couldn't breathe. Pressure was quickly Building inside my chest. In my mind, was on fire with anxiety. It was the most here

Fine panic attack, I have ever experienced Dave. You have to give me the hospital I managed to get out. I think I'm dying. I will forever be grateful for what my husband said: next no you're not stop Ryan, just relax and go to bed didn't you say you might think I'm getting, but I'm serious and I did think you're getting a new are serious. My husband always knows what to say to me when my should reach a fever pitch. If sensed even the foe, this bit of concerned his voice. I know the situation would have only escalated at the time. However, as you may imagine, I did not appreciate it. I mean we set off into a flurry of accusations. That fact we I can no longer remember Dave. Four warrior that he has remained unfazed. Instead, he continued to speak rationally and firmly probably only a few minutes, but they felt like my last will intensify wings of anxiety when the intense feelings of anxiety disappeared and my breathings, rode into a natural rhythm. An internal Konrad Jesus with myself, clearly

I was not okay, I what's a minor anxiety before initially when Travis was deployed and then immediately after his death, but nothing like this. This was positively debilitating for I work for the next several months. I was goes to my former self, the identity. Instead, you we built for myself after Travis, died shattered on December twenty four two thousand and twelve identified as a tough capable resilient woman? I was a marathon runner. I was a dedicated moment, support supportive wifi taken over as executive director of the Travis Meaning Foundation, the organizer the organisation my mother, formed under my brother. I led a town, the team and people looked me for guidance and leadership, and I gave it to them, but December what, if was a different bogging. I was gasping for Erin cursing my cursing out, exceedingly com husband. I was smoking again. I crying in the shower and regularly feeling seized by anxiety that I simply couldn't shake off. If this is

What life is like going to be if this, what life is going to be like from now on, I thought to myself one day: I'm done, I can't live like this and then you talk about communicating with some your friends commiserating with Amy is Brendan's bring. His wife was deeply helpful in putting me back the path to recovery, two years earlier, she had lost her husband, Brenda. If there is any one with whom I felt I could be complete, be vulnerable? It was her one day I called her overwhelmed and furious, my therapist diagnosed me with post traumatic, stress disorder. Today I shall Neither the receiver. Can you believe that shit? I don't have PTSD You go out and she says it's ok, Ryan. She told me my therapist told me the same thing at that. We both chuckled and it dawned on me that there was likely some truth.

Diagnosis, naming my problem didn't do much for me, but sharing it with some one else did during the following. Six months, I started to regain confidence, humor and peace as slowly reclaimed myself. Life slowed down. I focused on. Mental health, but not through fiscal challenges out the window. Quite the opposite. I began to understand what my dad meant when he told me to go for a run. When I wasn't feeling myself exercise has a tremendous positive effect on the mind I was using. Simple exercise as a tool to help with my mental state in you, again you go into some pretty good detail about this idea of not just exercise, but set These kind of little goals and doing things that sort of give you and me short term gratification and you get sort of on this treadmill of Europe: can for these short term. Vacation things to really

propel you for the next ten minutes, whatever next hour and whether its IRAN or whether it is a goal or what at some party or just your looking for your looking for like happiness, yeah grey education, temporary joy. But you re wise it that's not giving you the profound happiness that you're looking for So you say this to break away from that unforgiving pattern of searching for unmatched joy. You need to do one very important thing You have to be honest with yourself. No more self deception for time I lied to myself about how happy and fulfilled I felt frankly easier that way I even lied about things that made me feel happy and fulfilled. If Just stay busy? I would think, may

The story, you tell yourself as a little different if I just lose a few more pounds, if I just earn a few more thousand dollars this year. If I can just get that guy to notice me then I'll be happy, then I'll be ok. When we share those deceptive stories we tell ourselves, we create a space where were able to see what actually does make us authentically happy. I bet you'll find weren't totally off. As I said, we all seek some the same things love acceptance purpose. We just look for in the wrong place. When I talked with Amy, I knew that I had found them. A sense of community friendship growth. They were all right. There are laid out in front of me, and it was because I took a moment of quiet away from the activity and the chaos that I got to experience and appreciated in an intentional and meaning four way. Tension was the key that been missing our so called in goals and milestones and challenges ambitions that idea

the simple but profound element that makes everything worthwhile and the fact is, I'm still hungry, I'm still ambitious. I'm still a fighter I like to push my body and do things I may not quite be ready for and how hell. Yes, I've still got goals and dreams, but now I also have something else. I believe that single greatest key to resilience is setting intentional goals. Achieving a goal for the sake of vainglory. Ensure accomplishment will bring satisfaction, but that status, Action will prove to be short, lived. Achieving goals that have deep meaning to us will bring us far more happiness when we set those that have meaning outside of our own selfish ends. We just cover it's not about the destination. It's about the journey that's powerful and for me that part right there at the end

when we set goals that have meaning outside of our own selfish ends and now the lesson that when I, when I hear Travis story like? Oh, what made his life so meaningful is that what he was doing was not for himself. Everything you were doing was already the leaders. There could be a warrior, so he could protect, so he could defend yeah yeah at that time. You know you talk about April, twenty nine, two thousand and seven is the worst day of my life, but if you try to find out the worst time of my life, it would be after my mom passed away. It was one of those things where you know you can't do this.

Oh, when I thought I was the when I thought Travis being killed, was the woman being hit with the icicle fallen off the garage lake This is like. Let me take up, Crazy, a story. I've ever heard. You know like how how could my mom and my brother both not be here and through that five. Years. I was led by my parents, largely in terms of things I was doing to honour my brother, but it was an unsafe robotic, but it was it. Was these small little thanks? It was like ok run a marathon and it was like go to this ceremony and five year out from a loss, so a lot of attention. That's brought that lesson in the loss of a service member I mean you going to have. You know. You're gonna have the local.

Schools that want to honour them. At memorial day you dare to families want to be brought in on veterans day. It's it's those things and they kind of like they lead. You through the years and and I'll tell you what did their meaningful and and they mean something, and there are very much appreciated. But then, after my mom was killed or girt passed away, I just felt lost. I was like oh my gosh like I don't. I don't know what you do from here and I I just handle it the same way. Well, ok, you know tribesmen foundation, board of directors. Three weeks after her death hold the board meeting and the like yours, You know you're, the President, oh well, and when I joined my mom is executive director I join my mom is a you know:

it was still a small organization, but she takes in five years and turns it into one of the top leading nonprofits format, friends in the country and there like, ok, Rhine, go and unlike crap like I don't, How to do this. I have no idea. And I always tell my husband he's going to hate that I say this. I told him this is going to be the title. My nextbook he's like no, it's not what I said like I did a little like fake it till you make it sound, like ok, I'm the president, and I know what I'm doing again. You know this is out gotta be in, and the first thing I did. I just started like hiring really smart people, I'm like, okay, who are the smartest people I can find, and I'm going to get them and they're going to be the team of leadership. That's going to make sure that we drive this forward but then there is also this tremendous weight, because

here. You had organization that was named after my brother that had become like people at this point, like you say, Travis Mannion, and they that name. So there is a heavy burden to make sure you uphold the responsibility of what that name represents I met on top of it, you uphold the responsible many of the woman that created it. That's no longer here, so I felt pressure like I had never felt before and I didn't take any steps to say: ok, how pensioners steps to say how do I move forward doing this? It was just became the same rat race that I had been doing for the five years. Prior, ok, gotta keep going

and I felt really tough to me. I was I you know. I remember sitting there the Dame before my mom's funeral and there was all these people are much different seen. Then the chaos around Is that I'm sitting there and unlike I need you to do this? This is my usage. I want you to go home, go back and make these provisions on the computer printed back like I was running the show like I'm in charge I'm taking over. I will make sure all this getting done and we do the most beautiful tribute to this woman and after that I kept going just with that seem like doo doo doo, like grind every single day, whatever it may be, and then it was that Christmas Party,

Where am I husband again, you know he's heat. He has some insight and he said I dont think you throwing a Christmas party this year. Four hundred people is smart like we're. We ve got so much going on. We are so incredibly overwhelmed. You're so busy like. I just give it a rest. I mean I think he was even like dangling, you know, to the island for Christmas. In my face- and I like no way you know it's all about, memories. We have to have it, you know and that the idea that the you're after my mom passes away. We wouldn't have this like that's just on unheard of, like there's no way

And so I continued in that robot robot mood like this. When I got to do. I have to execute this. What needs to be done and it was once I hit that wall after it was done. It was like that was the mecca. I'd hid it and everything just came kind of crashing down. And you know that panic attack that night it was I I've had. Anxiety a little bit. You know growing up. In my teens, like you know what what would I I should say what I thought was anxiety, This was literally, I thought I was dying. I was like I'm I'm I'm dying here on Christmas night and, and it was my husband being like in you know, he's like shut up, you're, not dying, I'm tired and it is hearing those words like I'm tired, unlike our will

Clearly, if I'm dying my husband's, I can tell me he's tired into be quiet. You know, and it brought me down but you know, after that it was waking up every day. That was one thing. You know a panic attack a year, something like an. I could understand that I got that it was like will. Yet you had a panic attack because you ve had such an adrenalin rush for the last five months. Building up to everything you ve been doing, culminating with this event that your mom used to host, like I could justify a panic. It made sense, like your body was just having that let down and it went into an anxious response. It was that idea that I was waking up every day and I woke up and upon eyes, opening I wasn't crying I was like shaking and unlike what is going on, and I hid it for a while. I didn't tell my husband and tell my friends, like

I told no one cause, I'm just like, so you know I will read or your husband so shut up, I'm tired, yeah exactly what he has tied yeah. It was not good words get in most cases, skin and unjust. Husbands. Beware Jack! Don't you know an end to this? you know here. I am whom I in the book to guide it, tells you to shut up when you're having a bad time and not like now pay what I mean by it was each and every day and on an I got to the point. Where am I like? I'm I'm having mental health issues right like this is not just a isolated event like something's something's happening here and to have me go sit on a couch with a a therapist was like for me. That was just a big deal, and a because you thought your two year too strong for this year at it. It's just like now,

who I was I mean I think when I opened the first time to my dad about it was my dad and my husband and we were in the Kitchen- and I said: hey, I'm, I'm struggling I don't know what's going on with me, but I'm I'm not feeling right eye. Living in a perpetual state of anxiety, and I dont know how to get out of it and you know at that time I I had em Laura's Japan. It's like a low dosage. Xanax that I had because I would take it when I flew in owing oh here so then just to cut that when you fly and next you know like I'm, taking these every day and they're not even doing anything and unlike okay, so I I finally break down. I tell my dad and tell my dad Dave and my dad's like first

Francis Wurtz, I mean I've, seen you workin out, while Ryan, so I mean that an that's how I was raised and he was like you gotta go I'll run and, unlike an end, new? That was going to be the response, and so for a while. I was like cannot say anything but from there was. You know, and in my dad's defence you know, I think after he he said that I broke down in tears. Unlike it's not you know in using o crap some serious this guy on here, and so are we I got into therapy and dumb and therapy helps dear, so This is something that I realized. So I used to not really understand what therapy was, what a psychologist it or any that three just like voodoo, whatever color things right, and it wasn't until a friend of mine Jordan Petersen, whose whose psychologist came in here, he was

explain to me like to kill two things that he solved for people that's when I realized I coined the term of my own called a mind mechanic or like brain mechanic, because when your car, when your car is running right, you don't just keep dry, having it? You got all this and run right undertake to me a mechanic and organic. We everyday sees different cars with different problems and knows how to fix them. So colleges or a therapist they deal with bull that have been through all these different things and they little solutions for to tell you two, To do too too. Get your mind in the right space, so you can carry on that's what they're doing they're not doing any voodoo voodoo they're. Just doing some mind. Mechanic adjustments and you can imagine how I know for me. I think my first therapy session? I went in and she's ask me questions

and you know it's like I'm having a conversation with a friend and then she coquet time's up. Unlike what one, when are we gonna start therapy she's like I was there a pig and like how did she give you? Did he give you like techniques totally yeah? Can you give me example of just one so you know there's like the breathing techniques of course like. For me, a lot of it was like the breeding, because I would get too like these PETE Peak feelings of anxiety where you know it's like fighter flight and it slight breeding breathing exercises to help get me back down Sir. She says: ok when you start feeling like that, here's what you gonna do yeah tell me where to let you know it was you know you, I think, one of whom was like you're gonna, take a deep breath and you're gonna hold it for three seconds and then you're gonna, let it out for ten seconds while holding your diaphragm, so you can actually like Theo, the brass coming out

I developed my own technique still like I have to this day, I've developed my own techniques to help when I'm feeling anxious commuter before are there so girly but yeah my my you have also not saying I'm gonna use. So what am I examples is most of the time and I actually dont must have. I keep my my nails. Polished, ok and I can get it out and I'll. Like peel the nail polish off, I'm feeling super anxious, but what it is more than that we so that's a sign that you're getting anxious now, that's like it finds super anxious for super anxious. You stop picking your fingernails. Taking the nail polish off looking ahead with the nail polish onyx sentiment to pit the skin off my fingers that's it. That's a technique is too, might because not only but it's something that coms you somehow yeah,

You know what it is, though I say it's not so much the appealing, the nail polish up here, it's finding something that you have to concentrate on your so once I a piece of nail polish off my finger. I'm not gonna! Let my hands look like that. So I have to get every last piece of nail polish, without nail polish remover with my with my fingers and that too eggs time and effort, and I just become focused on that and so the it's like that sort of thing can kind of bring you into for me. It brings me into a place of like I'm, concentrating on this, One thing that I realise that I do is when when you're in the military. When you talk on the radio, we don't want a sound your panicking yet, and so on. I was lucky that radio I'd be like no matter what was going on to you know we're whether I'm just exists physical energy or theirs chaos goin on it always be of amity, talk and radiant. I just put on the Comoros, you don't I

that's when you, when you say hey, we need fourteen more guys come over this building. Now, and whenever it hears you- and you hear yourself, you like. Ok things aren't about what had so. I was for me we're trying to keep my voice in check, and I think that leads to a sense of calmness. Even now and not just outwardly, but it would be as well. The anniversary relies on a thought till I started having conversations with people about this very thing because we will see how did you remain calm and I'd think about a webpage, stay calm and then I thought well what let's think about it, what actually and the other thing is. I would tell guy you know that I was training, I'd, be like hey man, don't you your guy on the radio really Borg eyes over a year now during a training operation, and that's it broken into compound, don't sound like them ready, freakin everyone out, yes at and their freaking out yet, and so when I problem don't talk like that, again say comedy like hey. We need more guys. Moving forward in

could see them visibly. I watch him. They would get calmer because you have to get control. So those are the kind of things that the mind mechanic will give you to us totally an end you know, but for me it was. It was less about staying com. It was about, like I was afraid that crescendo where literally it's that fight or flight, and you don't want to go off that edge, and so it was like when I get to that point. What what do I do? Because I don't know if you ve ever had an actual panic attack. I got you feel like you're die. It is, though, crane he is feeling in the world the thing that makes me really. Which must make this hard right is, if you like, let's that you're starting to have a panic attack. Yet isn't it like a snowball because you like on only one I gotta go it's coming to look at how it is going to be at this could be battle. So Actually it's a it. It's like self,

propels itself to off worse war. Will you know I'm so I'm saying I used to take Loretta PAM. When I flew you know was just like hey. It was like my fear of a flying rate. I fly so much now over it, but people say: will we Scared of the plane crashing- and I was like oh, I was scared of debt too scared on the plane you know like. I don't want to be on the plane and start getting scared. So long in us I mean it's like: do you use your head? Does crazy things? You know but yeah worked through that and you know I was very intentional, about, even when I felt like ok, I'm coming out of this, I'm feeling better. It wasn't like I'm going, stop guy! Ok, I gotta keep going, and keep going until she, Tells me it's you, you know how long it took

It was about six months of like intensive therapy worm. I'm talking like I reserves are, was two to three. We can exercise so after use. So Exercise becomes again a big part of it, but it's not exercise where I'm going to run a marathon or I'm going to do. It was like I'm going to go out for a run every day every other day, because it's what my mind needs not necessarily what my body needs. I was talking to my friend Jerome on his part gas yeah right after Chris Cornell killed himself. He killed himself that day or the day before and We started this podcast and look. I mean obviously I know psychologists and we were just talking. We were trying to give out advice, but eatables, which was a guy. You know, gotta get some exercise and million people said you have naughty we're talking like. I know, I'm just saying that you know it feels good to work out.

But then was interesting. Was my other friend TIM ferris, who actually went through, like a suicidal episode in his life and he's, and then he's like? No, you have to like get outside and exercise like you feel better, I don't subscribed to anybody that thinks that your physical health is not one hundred percent tides, your mental health, like you know, you think my dad was incredibly insensitive when I would try to talk to him about, like elements of the mind and he would tied all back to like well. If you re a whore, but you know why, like he was right here, he was right and is it all that is it like you, hey, I'm suffering from depression go run now, but it is. It is war hundred percent a component, my husband runs.

A single die every day he runs, and here he is people like you can run the marathon music I'll, never run a marathon again music. I run to live my life like it's all, all for making its own it for him, it's just about like in order for need to be clear, headed tube a good husband and to be good other and to be good at my job. I have to run every day. So it's cool about this You know for folks at a lessening right now that are and into whatever difficulties are going through, like hey cool, the initial whatever the initial prescription is Outside and then, like you said, which goes beyond that than what we need, Well, then, you need to go into a brain mechanic, which is what you said here that hey dad it's not by running this, not more running right, which

for we had some conversations with like that about with my kids, you, where were you know my daughter's? You, though, say like don't feel like doing anything right now is a goal. That means you need to do something right, yeah and I'm sure some time that some points god my dad's, an idiot I want to say that You just said that your dad witching kind of supports my position. You'd have tried. He was right so casually get some exercise, but then, if it goes beyond that and you still feel the the issues than you gotta get some some help for short a couple more things wrap this up along the road to intention. I came across countless bunsen bumps and pitfalls. But I also learned a few votes. Global truths. First, don't you, Jack Jackhammer, when a chisel will do. When I saw a problem in front of me, I went out with a jack hammer,

convinced that, if applied in a forced to it, I could mean. Go away, but Sir problems, even big ones, need only a well deployed. Chisel intention is chisel. I was introduced to intention when my mom received four eight month prognosis. Travis is young. Life had been ripped from mine violently and quickly but the case of my mom. I was given the opportunity to say my goodbyes. I asked her questions about her life and wrote down

her responses. We spend every day together and she held my girls every chance she got after she died all that disappeared. I believed for time that I had been robbed. I was heart, broken and right back where I had started, but then I realized a lesson on intentionally. I was crudely reminded of how short sweet and precious our lives are. I know the cost of not having the opportunity to say what or do what matters most, and I refuse to squander the blessings that I have been given. I choose to live life with in tension. Your next piece of advice. Second, it's not either or its both and- let me be clear intention- is not right. Meant to replace goals and ambitions. It's meant to color them committing to

vigorous, feats, physical, mental or otherwise, is often a good in its own right, maybe pass those border crush that personal best time or compete for that promotion. These are all good things. These aims are fuelled by discipline in Focus but they are nourished by intention difficult too Jane goals and accomplishments are what keep our heart rates up in our blood pumping. They give us life, but intention is what gives our lives meaning its? What makes life worth living. Then this is your last piece of advice that on me to cover from the book it says, failing, is a booze not attached to breathe. Travis died and never bothered to think much about failure. That's not because I was wildly success. Whatever

thing. I tried my hand at believe me. I failed a plenty of things rather was because I d: care enough about anything. To give it much effort. I was sometimes apathetic Travis was ambitious. Travis was Ambitious goal oriented one I was just coasting through life after he died

and then my mom died. I had a major wake up call now. I feel I feel compelled to take advantage of the time I have left on this earth to lead a life they both can be proud of, and I think that's a good place to stop on my readings from this book to lead a life that they can be proud of. Cuz. That message right. There is just the powerful message and it's the one that

No that I think about every single day every single day. I think about that and mind you. We ve only covered like a third of this book right here right. There are stories and lessons from Heather and from Amy and, like I said Humphrey, I can them on and I can go through their lessons. Learned and networks sciences. I look forward to doing that, but in the meantime, for for folks out there get this broken and what's what's, awesome is. Those stories in this book, though the stories the book,

to an end in order to end this, but the, but the story doesn't either because Travis and Brendan and Robert are still haven't a huge impact, and we ve been talking about this, that the foundation that your mom started, the Travis Mannion Foundation in which you are now the press. No, the president of the yes and aim is one of the vice president's Amy's vice president and then Heather is manager. A programme manager here in San Diego West Region, yeah. That's so. I mean that the lessons that your put now, MRS than this Booker awesome. Tell us a little bit before we before we opt out a little bit about the Travis Foundation for small, like what what's the mission was to go really at the tribesmen foundation. We are creating a community and We want to make sure that we are giving. Returning veterans and families of the fallen at the opera.

Unity to continue to serve and more power. Way to be able to empower them post military life. I think you know when you look at today, fifty five percent of men, women who are taking off the uniform when you ask them what their greatest challenges its stat, that loss of purpose, you know why they don't have that sense of purpose in their life anymore and we have no shortage of ways at E M, F, To give you purpose again, our biggest drivers and a lot of it is you know it. Fix you. I talk about Travis as a young kid and I say, like you know there were something different about him, but didn't come without having incredible mentors. You know my uncle Chris, my add some of his teachers growing up there coaches job sharing at the wrestling at the Naval Academy. Is wrestling coach like these were the mentors that helped frame him in.

HU we became, and so we know the importance of that and we know the opportunity have we have with a group of men and women who basically more taught leadership, and so it's like. Ok. So, let's take this group of men and women who are taught to and serve and just say as for your service now how about like? Ok, you're back here, you're out, welcome. You teach these kids how to even leading serve so We train veterans to go out and mentor youth and they're out of the country taking them through both physical and experience, learning challenges to build their own service and leadership, and not in a way to indoctrinate the next generation to all during the military, but to say, hey, listen as men and women, like you and Travis, and Brenda and rob like they were called this

of this country. In military, but as Americans each and every one of us is called to serve like we have a result its ability to do that, and if we not passing that down to the next, nation then, were failing and So that's! That's kind of art our drive at that the foundation so where we are when to create a community that wants to pass, sat down and we, got eight offices across the country. Got a membership base of not a hundred and twenty thousand people and you know we. We we call ourselves the Spartans like and were largely made up of civilians, believe it or not, but these are people that feel that sense of pride for men and women, like you, you know, and they want to be able to eat that up and be a part of it and and be servant. Leader right in our own backyards, an hour,

our organisation does not exist. If we don't have veterans leading the charge and goats our families, like they re our programmes, so we're not a veteran service organization in the way we're we're saying these it. This is what we offer to you you better service organization that says hey. We really want to do good staff in the community, so we need you guys to help us out those. It's an awesome program that that idea made a video. We that I mean I went to away, but but What's awesome, is there just they're getting two kids, you know at the same idea that I had yet is which is hey, there's a bunch of kids in the world and what they need is to learn about life and learn bout. The word that you guys use, which I will use as well, because it's the right words character and, and how do you teach these young kids care

well. That's we'll I've written a bunch of kids books that that try to teach kids about character, and the values that will that the values that will give them a better life right, that work them a better life and will give everyone around them a better if as well so that's us and the other thing its awesome is what you just As you know me you many times a day. I get a message from someone that says: hey fifty two years old and I never served and I feel like I arrived. I regret it. I wish I could have what should I do that this is what you yeah. This is what you do you you you how propel the message in the end, the message of character to the veterans from the veterans back to the youth. That's what you do there are so many different ways to serve. You don't have to put on a uniform to serve their, so many different ways to serve in what you guys are doing is offering offering people the opportunity.

Find other ways to serve their justice impact. I'll. Tell you right now you go out there and you help three kids on the right path in their life. That is, biggest service you can make to the country. That's it! That's it, I'll do that that has such a massive impact. In the end, you guys are enabling that you guys are at. So some people want to. If you want to get on board yeah, we Travis, Mannion, DOT, Org, Travis, men, DOT, Org YAP. You can join the mission right there. We have, and I mean it walk you through every thing like this is the thing we do what you want to be a part of it now on gas. In the mission and learn more Europe social media could echoes really in a social. So it's up on Twitter, it T am foundation, cracked on Instagram, which ECHO calls the Graham the Grand yeah.

Its Travis meaning foundation on Facebook as Mannion Foundation and you as ever two generals. While we do, we ve got great videos. There's a couple: up their action. Is there more than one yet well. They broke down some of your. Outtakes injustice leg, it's like I'm! it long like wages, it blew it's up purse. It's like thoughts from Jocker Leg, Ass Cool Ass Gazelle Mabel Brisk as they had a big chunk of time but hours and hours death and I was like how long can take them up what we got five hours set aside and also ok, that's a long video yet, but you didn't That is why it was funny cause. I was with Pat Chapman was the one at that film GEO. He was the producer of the peace and he's a good friend of mine. He lives in ally and he said I'm doing Jockers podcast on Friday. And he said oh, my gosh To tell you, he said you know I got in the car with like us like the grips or whenever he said Joe. You know we're doing we're doing issue today. Guys names jocund. There really are

kidding me and he's like these good, I was like they were in the military. So I didn't he's a guy thought. It was really like heavily focused on the military's. These are like my key groups and they were like oh, my God, Jock out, they were thrilled vessels and yeah yeah. It's really interesting. The the demographics of people. I was in the pockets, its everyone gets. Really, it's really cool. The end in you know like they find the great opportunity for them to find a way to surface. Everyone feels that if you let somewhere in their system tat, if you go through your life. Looking out for yourself without helping other people, you look up one Daniel say: I want to help other people that just does just the way it is the act, those the ways to help to join the mission

When way you your way, you said I got, I got a better, that's a psychologist, you're that, unlike what real easy when it start to those words around and all the sudden not break out the knives get rid of the battle. That, though, like me, mission and whatever is that the very fact of yellow? That's something that I say alternative. That's like when you get done with your military service. You need a new mission totally and the people- I don't get a new mission day wander around and not knowing what to do here's, a good way with your civilian weather in your military to get on board and care. Let's keep the mission you got anything else, I mean obviously encourage everyone to go. Get the book get the book knock the knock.

At the door it's out right now view we believe you order this right now, you'll get a first edition which sawmilling the first edition. Get the first edition of you guys want first, a dish of on the door and then you'll be out of what people are saying, how can you dont tell us what books you going to do on the palm cast, because I dont know what books on what to do in the past until like a couple days before I do it, but with this once I I'll have hopefully Heather. Amy on at some point, you will be able to have the book in your possession and have already read it aloud. I asked I could take to the report's yes or knock at the door, and then you can you hit. You can follow Oh me, our Mannion, you know on Facebook and Instagram and Twitter Joe You know I put up. Foundations are put up a terrible mount about the book. Ok, but you know I'm push now,

Everything where we're gonna be coca differences of answer your doing events and stuff yeah, the book tat promoting the book in the book out there, that's right Sharon them book signings, you now so that sort of thing after yeah speaking of a mission- yes, your own emission, I want to mention. Well, you know Thank you so much for common. I mean it's Osman. Until we have some mutual friends, you know that's the which is cool guy and Jamie who works echelon. Her husband Flynn who was awesome friends who is awesome. Brentwood branded, as manufacturers have a son neighbour, yeah, I mean you know Jamie and Flynn.

A lot of stories that are in the book last or is it our in the book? You know they were part of them there they were. They were there in our I mean, especially in in any section in our Flynn, and Jamie were really intricate part of some of that time. Yeah. Well, thank you for You remove this book for sharing the challenges that you ve gone through: the triumphs that its

This I know, like I said that the stores in this programme to help help people that are struggling, win their knock at the door whenever that knock at the door is when it comes their way. This book will will help them get through it and even more important that thank you for the service and sacrifice of your family that you guys have made its obviously something that I will never forget, and nor will are great nation ever forget that, and thanks for what you're doing with the Travis Mannion Foundation to keep his legacy in his spirit and his

Two alive in order to make the world a better place, which you are doing, thanking all thanks for continuing to have the platform to share these stories. You know it's important, so we appreciate it it's mount or to be able to do it that give criminal thanks, and with that Ryan Mannion has left the building awesome conversation and some good advice, the actual price, pragmatic advice on what to do how to help yourself how to help yourself to those moments. A part of it was part of it

goes right goals with intention to keep yourself on the path going out for runs? I thought those interesting because every time shoot a house Tom or her dad and would say, yeah just go for a ride or whatever name. We can say that about you just to a lot of time. It is true, it's true or the here's a thing for I'm not just now. I mean we just talked about aware its But it's not layer is the antidote. You know it is for some stuff You know I wish I would have thought of this. It is a little bit more of an antidote than running in my opinion, I think so too, but did want it. I got a couple measures of effectiveness because there, a mental aspect to it. That complete covers all the mental aspects of running and then gives additional bonuses. And then I would imagine

but I would imagine that it would just depend this varies from person to person. You know some people there, maybe we'll lift weights. I remember when I was young when I be mad at something and keep in mind on Kauai. It's something so, whatever you re wondering about their very mild madness sessions, I would want to go. Work are going to work out in getting under way eventually thou would help don't be very narrow. Headache Raw Annie, serenity treadmill to back not before not anymore, but I surrounding trouble to say therapeutic, I thought the lifting was more therapeutic and then It is like magnitudes top the therapeutic pyramid into, the physical activity, by far too late. By far, are like more than one level like too your deftly recommending jujitsu round many jujitsu. Yet, for many reasons we ve talked about in working to continue to talk about this body. Will, when you do, do you see

You will need a uniform. You will biggie if you doing which we do recommend. What year are you going to get you get it? I have not been getting the question. What you should, I get any more have not worth getting out there, we're just getting out and we're going to continue to put it out. Origin keys, get one of our keys and buy our, yes, I mean us all of us, a group yoke us, because we are part of this thing, part of this gang. And we're all using we're all supporting rural on board with the programme origin made in America. Materials, can sometimes people that is they ve made it in America, took my pride ambled in America, yet they really mean or alternative Maiden America, oil sown and manufactured grown only to the raw materials American without compromise, where these young again.

You get rash guards, you get tee shirts and you can get genes, that's right, american general genes, Maiden America, and but boots. Oh that's right. Did you get yours yet so how you and I feel very good what are you wearing boots, though I don't wear boots So all this and use have boots, when he went over to where they are now, but here's the fears that the interesting thing in this goes really bring us members in that order. But, like anything, you know when you're excited about in my heart. I forgot that in the mainland you guys calling for clubs as a liberal. You like, when you get an exciting new of apparel. You more! You actively look for opportunities to where I settle. These boots, they're gonna get worn official put him on of course, but actually where in the field, whether that means

My case in the sun capacity to their gross both globally loses their they're, not for where innovation Norman. You can't buy their their legit awesome work boots made in farming to make aesthetically. Please I'd like to hear These were pleasing, but you like the way they look there. They have legitimate aesthetics. Two more heavier functionality is good. Yes and they're not overboard asked that which would give them disapproved by me. In fact, as far as I'm concerned, they are the perfect boot. Actually, when you think about it, they are a boot. The. If you look the dictionary boot you'd see a pair of origin boots would you expected their boots? Look like this. Why that's how booted been honed over.

Centuries to get to a point where you go. Ok, this is what a boot is year. The most the most boot. Boot can be, is immune from origin major! I get that for ourselves. What supplements are here now, because they, when you're on the path supplements they help. They supplement that the path discourse, But yes, all eight and look I slip off the train of will not mocked him, but be right on the net or there all day, Brad. I had like an incorrect. My wife made me any credible dinner yesterday. Flank stake just all just good, go. The nice will cease or sell disliked by two things, but the flanks, Dick was just perfect, got done with it not like yeah. That was so good enough, but I want some site is got it

I got a scoop and a half hitter about this. I hear that the whole deal, I guess we'll, and it happened one school bratwurst who wants no one wants group. Is it that you can have a once could put em? You can have a to scoop hitter for sure, oh yeah, that's not. It really is a little bit more. What one asserting! scruples ones are listening. So mark what it is its additional protein, but you're not gonna know. What do you think you ve got an additional dessert, exactly right, the joint warfare in crude oil, this important, I slipped off crude oil, whose thing I I didn't like forget it. I ran out. I forgot to get more before I ran ass. Well, in those situations again so it's weird, how this is what Jade called it. It's taper typing induced tennis, elbow, ok, That makes sense right below the computer whenever and I got tennis elbow of here while right, one

you mean lingered stuff. Do you, like for each days after I got off the crude oil. Joint, more firms. Doing into that. You elbow cured by the way, but yeah that that's that's the situation. If you people will ask me which won a or be you know beyond your warfare? Crude oil, which wants you to being, and unlike in answering that question, as far as I'm concerned is both its like peanut butter, angelic right You're, not just gonna go peanut butter, not just gonna, go tell you about an age. I go joint warfare and super girl, yeah, well one hundred zero in with it and I'm on, like a problem the programme where it's like lifting like hard in this streets, a bit more old school. Now, like I'm, not these young, as he speaking great, are technic great, not year, but actually, although you see through Nuno, saw

Yes, this is saying a lot when I don't have the elbow thing anymore. I and those are common thing, one of lifting with no its supplements before you did your old thing It was a big I endured just endured, Everyone's allowed take like Ibuprofen somethin like that got real, that's not good for you, but other They just warm up more now, no fact they're gone aside from a tennis elbow, but what have you been opened? tap, Tap Hindi set anything else. I was not maintain us, unfortunately, jerk nonetheless, yes, Sir, yes, a joint work or allow mark discipline. So we got the Jackal Palmer slave. Which is a fifty percent iced tea? Fifty percent lemonade flavour, it's the greatest thing. The hit. Is that our good? Oh yeah? It's out it out. I said as it is soon, I don't. I don't belittle little, unlike as soon as I have tried the

went through all the trials to get the right taste when we got the right taste- and I was like run this- make it, and I said, as soon as the factory gets done, making it Federal express it. You, my house is its taste so good, better than Tropic Thunder, you think are you, like my opinion, is, is yes right now right now, the the powdered discipline in Jacko Palmer flavour Is my favorite favour at this time? I'm not saying I won't occasionally do a little lemon line. Hit or order Tropic Thunder, and they don't forget it. We also have the Cannes arrangement and ass soon ass. They like the cans to me, I'll Lemon lime, fine, but the topic like there's no way, I would ever under any circumstances, grab the lemon lime on the Tropic Thunder. So I guess there's no way. Well I mean you know. I think that might be from your upbringing possible:

very tropical here s, your answer them you learn to be like over there, and then he got Jacobite tiers raw organic Why? Certainly it's only organic consumable that is guaranteed to give you an eight thousand pounds less severe after thickly, proven by the way up a blind alley, was also, if you are, when you get your copy of the knock at the door, by Re Mannion, Heather, Kelly and Amy Loony effort. In no words I got I got you, you have to go searching, even though I am sure that be easy to find regardless, but waited on Jocapa. Guess that come under the book section is another good way to support Thou podcast. If you want

click click through their it'll? Take you to Amazon on that Amazon landing to it, lands save that to your favorites. You give a if you ve done this before August. First sorry, we got for various reasons that we're not gonna go into. But nonetheless, if you do that, then Indeed, Amazon shopping through that link. That's a good way to this podcast, very good way. If you want but yet so yeah it'll be on there and get it there see you can we support yourself, but you know, get don't get the whole book, see kinda, get all the details and whatnot also Jocker sister just the three games you together wrote on Twitter his wife said what do you want for your birthday and he said: Doktor has a store, it's called chocolate.

There. You use is actually needed to know because everything that you can get there he's down with just order something from there. You can, rash guard! You can order a t shirt. You can order a truckers hat. I guess. If you Our feeling, like, maybe you don't feel, is cause you wanna, be good order, flex, fit hat oil or light? We already ready, admit it. When you see people were in the late great hurry you it's got your kind of getting won over not one Omer like yours, anger and I'll say probably not right now little bit a little bit to get this leisure functional, functional lightly, functional and slightly aesthetic dig it no less. If you want, I represent, will you in the path jock Historical, we get the stuff you know. I subscribe to this package, which is a good idea if you haven't yet, which echo doesn't think you have. Maybe that's, because ECHO is the Tiber,

that is listening to something for years and doesn't hit subscribe. The? U will you can be like echo and hit subscribed now or maybe, if you're like me, you already had subscribe. So we know it's interesting, but that is obviously not the first time. He said that echo doesn't think. Subscribe to the technically. That's not true, that's not how! Well now I was not aware that leave my european executive is, if you probably just miss, remembered it in letting it I could be wrong, ran out to him. Maybe I'd miss dinner remember quickly, but what it was as was I was saying you don't have to tell people to subscribe, because their evening subscribe, if they want to or not you don't be like hey subscribe. Nobody, oh, my gosh, I told you forget to subscribe, is kind of like bees think that those MIKE tension anyway, so there's more accurate but additionally,

today, you put a lot of things. Are me? Didn't would you say that I called it the gram that whole line of a grand, whatever you say echo than those interesting listen, I'm not taking ownership of things all yeah, that's true! it is interesting that unless I'm actually nothing to take ownership, I'm not blaming you for calling it the grandma, I'm just stating that you call it the grant, even though I don't So it's almost time four minutes to read. Some reviews allowed again done that. Before, but yes leaves him reviews. If you leave a review, that's shy! kingly, creative and good, there now, you know, maybe I'll does retweeted or something I read it I also I want to do the. I also want to read tube comments allowed YAP, why we should do

well, there's a shell like without an I forget it. It's a bunch of closing our brain or somebody I mean three means idea is that we should do that with the with the not necessarily mean ones, because moons can be lame. We're not gonna be like those goals. You go Here's a legal criteria mean tweets. I've seen two people crime. When reading mean tweets really crazy legitimately, like, like you know like to show the power of internet bully or would have not gonna. Get me they're here What I would, I would wonder, is of Zaire Eunuch assert crime, but if you say you want to read it, then people be. Let me make a mean one and then sometimes, if someone intention. The day of the year. If you're gonna try and be mean to me through comments, you have a negative impact on me. I AIDS break the news to you, you're not in executing wealth. Is I don't care? I actually want to write something cool and you

Want me to see it and be like awesome, then that good you're being effective. Yes, well, but this, though ways that were it like, if we, if you, if we decide for you to read, mean comments People, someone might be motivated to be at all. Let me see if I can get a singer in there and then it's just sort of whack is set for it. Income to be funny. It has to be funny first, then. So. Here's the here's, the really here's. The really kind of just thing that shuts that idea down to two, to read a mean like a truly mean comment is not even it's not funny. You know funny comment rate like the person they got a picture of me: It says, cute. My eyes like they were manages to them for credit about one million. That was evil angle, Charles the big picture that

like Charles posted that, but yes, so that picture was taken about three seconds before this for targeted a legit photographers, taking pictures of me like photos, you well you're muddling now. Taking pictures are made up of small there like I'm, like just they're like we'll just walk around and act natural and Zalm like walk around and unlike Can I look in the in this in this pit right where that fences and I look at them and then they like taken much pictures and then they started giving me direction. Only by their like, like we can you look over there and look at us real work Jimmy I do- and I was like now, are doing that this is this not be. Another picture was the one picture that they got right before they started Gimme directions, and I and I told him negative- not happening, a picture, looks labour man,

baby. You know, maybe you know, looked cute, my delete. It lay hey bottom line least reviews. You know we have fun with em repression, call review, so maybe awesome and of freedom of the warrior could parkers, which I know I owe more of this starting sound, really bad figure. Maybe we should release at one and the bank, sure, ok, yeah, so where you could broadcast and of good about the work itself from irish oaks, Blanche, dot com where young aid is making itself so that you and we all get stately speaking of course also you d agenda, we have each gentle. Version of this but and exercise a alot excerpts on their little, Look chopped up using by you. Tubes were heard what I learned: people now people now or going to Youtube more for a little bit longer

Videos than before him, with a train whose, like oil, a minute and a half, it's like you gotta, keep their attention on the internet. Is that those kind of the thing right some originally the new, Urgent status is the p but we like the longer form stuff were beginning to let your lawyers from catching roundabout over there is business, like we re making three hour bog gas for years by yes, but remember another reality, I guess Waldner became three. Our progress, audio right, we're Talkin ADI along Ok, but yet other video, you have we ever five four and twenty five minute long pod gas which on porno yes, but as far as the train goes people like it generally speed More now so people outside of the people I listen to this park, asked for starting a troika just come here in general and with your poverty, two of them Somebody excerpts are like five minutes.

Eight minute by minute, right, right, soviet times that I was telling you can you please make an excerpt? That's not twenty seven minutes long you're saying I was wrong. Well I do not feel that blade hairs. Saying you were wrong, then I'm saying that no longer applies as far as like what you might want. Nonetheless, do some experts on their wealth. Two. If you want something shorter than that even go to psychological warfare which is available on Itunes in all mp3 platforms, which is me giving some short, maybe minute minute, a half, maybe two minutes at the longest audio, vice about to stay on the path, and it's not just advice, its actual mechanical tool that will keep your bath virtue very effective to its like yours, you, go to a therapist to try and get you do not eat a donut or you just press play both in your ear. The sugar coated lie

flip side canvas if you need some visual representation of the path you go to. Flipside canvas dot com owned by my brother, Dakota Meyer. You can get this one cuz freedom. You can get good, you can get whatever you want. Actually let Dakota know what you think would be cool He'll make it flip side, Camera Stockholm, Dakota Mass Helicopter. Yesterday's did you say that did right in that. Are you not that you, okay yeah? I was going to make a video of like myself or you and be like hey like to. Could I see Dakota Myers Helicopter in, like so cool, so we decided to get our own and then we get it, and then we do that or you'd get in there and you'd take off and they need like crash it isn't in or before you get an catches on fire, something you you're kind of like you want to copy people but years in a

failed at it or since so are we having a meeting, About creative ideas in a corner and actually technically, I want to say it out loud just to see your reaction to see where I need to spin say dear God, she spent. They're right along with the helicopter. That's all we got some books, obviously the book the knock at the door here, Rhine, Mannion, Heather, Kelly, Amy, lunatic, half an inch and get the book comes out November. Fifth, the, but order right now to ship and you'll get it early. Also. Leadership, strategy and tactics feel manual just got approval from the department of the Defence Department of Defense which, long time, but they just gave me approval to publish it made it through. The de classification process. So we're gonna go pre what

Now it will be out. In January and believe me when I tell you you want that. First, the dish- and we had a warrior kid books, there's three of them where there is a will marks mission and the first one way the warrior kid get. Those dont forget about my. In the dragons for every kid that you know between the ages of zero and one hundred get a mighty in the dragons hearing people me they cried when they read the letter. Or no, I don't know how many, but that does not surprise me because member, I think to it'll. I told you this thing to do you when laid the video that heart. For some reason, what are you you're, my son, and if you know in this recipe of kids, you, like our man, you know you're sending your kid off into the crazy world. You know kind of on his own. It's like manatee kind of like yeah. I did get man. I understand so get that book for everybody that you know don't give a

Blake was freedom field manual. If you want to know my first operating system for mental and physical health, that's it! The discipline, Eagles freedom field me while the audio version is available as mp3, wherever guitar mp3s and also we have ownership and the dichotomy leadership, which I wrote with my brother leaf band, which you can take the lessons that we learned in combat and apply them to your business, your family and your life echelon front. That's my leadership. Concern can see, and what we do is solve problems through leadership. No matter what problems you have an organization, the problems guarantee our leadership, Brahms correct on front dot, com for details and If you want to get someone, from echelon front to come and speak to your organization. Don't go through a

beakers agency. Go to a front dot com. That's what you do. Otherwise there is a middle man, and the middle man will make things annoying. So just go rational, front dot com we have yes, online. Where you can you can receive leadership, training without us. Actually being there I was working with a company when I got don't talk with his executive? She came up to me and said I want you to talk, talk to you and teach and train every employee have at this company. I said cool, how many employees do you have hundred and sixty seven thousand, I think- was the number lose one eighty seven thousand the biggest donors conference anyways global company, and I said: ok, let me get back you on that. So many ways, How do you do that? Obviously we can't clone or instructors at echelon front, but we can put them on interactive high.

Speed online leadership training. That's where E f online dot com is so check that out. If you do come and see us live, go to. Extreme ownership dot com to fight Now, when we do our leadership, training, which is called the muster. The next one is in December. Fourth and fifth in Sydney, Australia. We will not be going to Sydney Australia for a long, long, long long time, we're not going to Brisbane we're, not gonna Perth, we're going to Sidney if you're in Australia come see, us in Sydney apologize, but that's just we're not a rock and roll banned or not tour we actually have a bunch of work to do outside of the masters we can't do must use all the time so. Yeah, if you want to come, go to extreme ownership, dot com check for the it's for America in twenty twenty will become out soon. If you want to come and check us out, go to trim ownership, dotcom, an e f of watch right now we are taking trained leadership.

Experts from special operations from combat aviation, and we are placing them into companies that need leadership inside your organization, the the leadership that understands the principles of combat leadership that we teach inside of our company echelon from the the things the prey. Phonics pre, K, extreme ownership, the principles of form that I got a new leadership, so go to EF, overwatch dot com. If you need leaders in your company and if you want to continue to Communicate with us we're on the webs we're on Twitter Instagram and we are on one at or Facebook. For the Travis Mannion Foundation. They are on the internet, webs at Travis, Mannion, DOT, Org there on twitter, at tea,

Foundation Instagram is Travis men and foundation, and Facebook is at Travis. Mannion found. Nation? They also have a Youtube gentle, which is called Travis men in foundation There's a videos this, I guess, there's two of me. In there I know did want, but there's two, this of other really great stories on their two here and to watch, and if you want to talk to well us echo is at ECHO Charles and I am at jacket, I could thanks once again to Ryan Mannion for everything that she has done and is doing and to her co, authors and her friends

me loony, have four men and Heather Kelly for writing this book. The knock on the door, which I know is going to help so many people and, of course, thank you to the true heroes that they knew and they loved Travis Mannion Brendan Mooney Robert Kelly, who willing. We went forward into harm's way and laid down their lives on the altar of freedom. Giving us this precious gift that we must never take for granted, we must live to make them proud.

Follow their example and be grateful for their service and sacrifice, just as we must be thankful to all of our armed services for what they do every day and the efforts they put forth to protect our freedoms and to our police and law enforcement fire fighters and paramedics, empties dispatchers correctional officers and border patrol at sea, it in all the first responders you so make sacrifices every day to protect our way of life. So thank you too, you all as well and to everyone else out there just remember that

the short and life is precious and it will come to an end. You are not guaranteed to Morrow said: don't wait, don't wait to do the things you want to do and don't wait to become the person you want to become. Don't wait, go out there today and get after it until next time. This is ECHO and Jacko out.