« Jocko Podcast

274: Being the Best. Can You Handle The Cost of Going Against The Grain? Is it Worth It? Tony Herbert, "Soldier"

2021-03-24 | 🔗

0:00:00 - Opening

0:04:20 - Tony Herbert, "Soldier"

2:31:09 - Final thoughts.

2:48:27 - How to stay on THE PATH.

2:59:12 - Closing Gratitude.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This is Jocapa cast number two. Seventy four without Control and me Jocker willing good evening. I get even right. So the pod gas to seventy three, we were with Anthony Herbert Tony Herbert, also known ass, and we started off his journey from a kid growing up in Pennsylvania? So if you haven't listen to people cast to seventy three goals have that right now he tried to join the Marines at fourteen fourteen years old credit eventually join the army. Seventeen off the Queen WAR went from private master sergeant. all kinds of heroic actions suffered all kinds of wounds, shot hit with frog white fast Miss Burns and also bayoneted
multiple times, including one bayonets stab that broke off on his chest in the green war servers opportune leader, even though he was just a young enlisted guy and eventually at the end of that podcast and at the that part of his life use pulled off the battlefield, one of the most Decker soldiers of the war sent on a mirage, is that basically morale, tour and first, what phone back to the to the White House meant present. Roman and then basically went to London in Antwerp in Brussels in the Hague and all the other european allies that we're fine, alongside America in the korean WAR, allow the way he met. Mrs Eleanor Roosevelt. She encouraged and go to college he kind of
read one of course. She says in the book. Is he he agreed because he was out of the youngest master sergeant and the army, and he said what am I going to do sit around the enlisted man's club telling stories about Korea, so he was sore up, not not over it, but he realised that he had kind of done what he was gonna do, so he ends up getting assigned as an arrow TC instructor at a high school in Denver, because he liked to ski Goes to the third Ranger class that ever happened. He was in he ends up get harry to his home town. Sweetheart Mary grace starts going to college Then he gets out of the army. Then starts going to college at the University of Pittsburgh while he's there, he write a book called conquest to know what nowhere, which was his first about Green war, which he later rewrote, which we covered. What'd you when it was rewritten was called the making of a soldier. Vat was, ass to set me three for the most part
did a steel mill at night while he was going to college and then eventually commissioned an officer in the Pennsylvania National Guard shut out. The two to eight iron soldiers are right. So so then he goes to these Kind of in the army and he get some warnings at the army's different. Now you know the war's over both the good people got out. We just left with people that shouldn't even be in the army that you get those kind of warnings, but he stayed in. He loves being sold he wants to be a soldier goes. The basic army infantry course winds, nine out of ten awards there, including the your ship trophy, which is the leadership trophy, is awarded by the other students like the other students, act. Who deserves this leadership? Trophy Van
gets assigned as a ranger instructor and he starts and he starts in the mountain phase and so today we're going to be reading, so the first book that we covered we covered a little bit as it was written two books. So I guess he's written three hundred and eleven conquest of nowhere that one got re written as the making of a soldier. That bulk of what we read last time. This time we're going from his second book primarily and it just called soldier discoloured soldier and lots of less learned, but, as I mentioned in the first podcast and to seventy three. There's some serious lessons learned about life and things get really crazy when he goes to Vietnam as a battalion commander, and we will get. There are itself here, we go
go on go into the book soldier written by Anthony, be Herbert. He says this teaching young men, the essentials of mountain climbing, combat and survival, was more of a learning experience for me than for them. I begin discovering things about the resources in me as well as the way the on Was moving, I was an alternate instructor at first assigned to teach the sense on suspension traverses. I took it seriously. dangerous business. If you didn't, they to be used for traverses, which were one inch in diameter and nine hundred feet. Long cost the army three hundred dollars each. I had set up two of the traversed. on a sixty foot cliff the day before a new class was to begin and that afternoon I went out to inspect the ropes one of them. Criteria for determining the quality of the kind of wrote that was the present was the press. Of a tiny colored strand.
running all the way through its core. I inspected the first traverse and found the strand, but the second rope didn't have it, which meant that I simply couldn't approve its use. The strand was an indication that the machines used to put the hemp together into a strong and, of course, had worked, the they were supposed to. If the strand wasn't there, something has gone wrong and the rope might be faulty. I went back to my quarters and wrote in satisfactory report on the rope and then went to the chief instruct and told them of my findings. The art pay good money for that rope and you want to throw it away. He argued We're not gonna. Do that. Herbert I explained what I had found or rather what I had not found strong, shhh man, he said you go out there, has to begin by going down the traverse even holds it holds you it's ok. This is kind of a strange safety right go ahead. Risk your life deceive, it's gonna work I returned
and went down the traverse, so he doesn't get held. This must be sturdy enough to support a cheap. I went back and told the captain and he ordered me conduct the class next day using the rope I filed the unsatisfactory report and went to bed the next morning stood at the top of the cliff. I ordered the class in the two lines. The captain nodded. His approval from near by one group would use the traversed made a robot specula approved the other would be. Would you the traverse the rope I'd inspected and rejected a young corporal in the second group, stepped off the rope snap and he fell sixty feet to the rocks below. I went down quickly on the other traverse his body was so broken. It almost crumbled in my hands. I lifted him into a jeep and said the hospital the captain had seen what happened. He left the seen running up over the hill. The students were nervous. They said they weren't going through with it. I made them a little speech on courage and reminded them that data
all known that ranger training included risks. It seem to work. We spent rush the morning learning how to use the traverse. There were no further accidents, and at lunchtime I went back to base where Colonel Byerly and the captain asked me how the kid fell, was going to be he'll, be dead. On arrival, I said, don't say that the captain said you I'd say about how the hell do you know. Because I'm the one who put him out on that cheap for hospital he'll be dead. On arrival, the phone rang It was a hospital calling and the captain came back to Byerly and me with a strange look on his face: the hospitals, as he was dead on arrival, he reported it was quiet in the office. Finally, the captain said I was responsible for the accident. I realise that sir and I'll stand whatever comes from it. I said you're responsible,
no, he said you're the one who's responsible. I know, sir. I know I answered. so I'm sure it's pretty obvious. Why decided to pull out that particular quote, because that is a hundred percent act? obviously he's taking ownership for what happened, but it's not just lip service. If you don't think something is right and you executed it's on you, it's on you. Little bit more from Ranger School in this book. Look this book, is for almost five hundred pages long and obviously in my region, thing. There is so much good information and I'm just I tried to pass it down some key points along the way, but this
this is a book, TAT is packed filled with knowledge, and I try Bring out as much that has occurred, some of them we're stories that I don't even go into. There's, there's all kinds of combat scenarios that I don't go into just incredible book. fast forward a little bit here. I didn't develop any really sophisticated theories about teaching and I still haven't what seem to be important was that the tea know what he was talking about and be able to show, as well as tell one of the fallacies army training these days is that kind of sperience. Is no longer part of the tradition. Kids are taught combat technique by men who, through no fault of their own, of course, have Spent a moment and combat- and we wonder how it is that we Now soldiers like Kelly talking only technically meal. I massacre seemed most important, then, and still does was that
didn't realize that the army and war are not really gains at all, even though they might seem that way at times, especially when you hear some one of the bar tales thwart when you hear the barroom tales of the way it was in China where that night in the mail. On Delta. I saw so many army teachers who are trying to make up for the times when they had been down at the bottom of the heat when they had been the ones taking orders. they played games with their men. Building there he goes with Nip PETE Nit picking, orders that produce nothing but descent anchor among the men so often I found it that way in the military, the rules and the rags and the juvenile cover ups and
children's games it had nothing to do with creating a system of discipline are building soldiers. It was simply an ego game again. I think it's quite obvious. While I why why, I am talking about this. This is something that we all have to watch out for you get put net position of authority. You gotta watch out. You gotta watch out some good good opportunity for you to copyright make them do some stupid stuff that doesn't make any sense, we'll do that all day, long view, like your ego, run the show that's what you're doing and by the way it creates. Would he say descent amongst the troops are right:
So what he does in the next kind of stages of the books he gets stationed in Germany. He kind of creates this provisional Ranger platoon. He becomes the commander of the Provisional Ranger Platoon, one thousand nine hundred and sixty two gets promoted to captain he's deployed forgot. His deployed to go up the Congo in Africa, a Porter Rico, Dominican Republic, the Persian Gulf deployed to Bahrain all in the sixties and is all. A good stories in a book about these different, situations at ease in he's doing some kind of clandestine type operations. He's it's just border line, spies scenarios, Goin going down or with the CIA Inert Interact, with the CIA intelligence Services and and this kind of stuff. So he does all that. Nineteen sixty six goes back to being a ranger instructor starts working towards a masters degree,
psychology gets a degree in nineteen. Sixty eight gets offered a slot at war college, but of course he doesn't want to go to war village, not yet any ways he wants to go to Vietnam and the bunch of reasons. Obviously, he he's always felt that he wants to be a combat leader and he misses an opportunity to talk to lead. He also never worked with helicopters the level they were used in Vietnam, so. while so he said quote, I wanted to know, I want to go, I wanna see I wanted to fight asked the chain of command hey. Can I please go to Vietnam and he does he getting orders to Vietnam. He wants to be a battalion commander. Causes by this time has been promoted a few more times. He wants to be a battalion commander. He, but he doesn't show up immediately in Vietnam. Is a battalion commander has to pay, is due whose first and the he pays dues is my becoming the inspector general
hundred seventy third airborne brigade, so inspector general. What's an inspector general, the inspector general their mission Inspector General mission is to quote, provide impartial, objective and unbiased advice and oversight to the army from relevant, timely and thorough inspections, assistance investigations and training to promote and enables you were chip, accountability, integrity and efficiency, also good order and discipline and enhanced total army red readiness. That's what an age of your her that term before I e G inspector general. Yes, you have where'd you hear what movie I don't remember, maybe like mash or something like this ok. Ok, I was trying to
a good way to explain all those things and have you ever seen: police movies, where they have the internal affairs soya. That's kind of, I think That's a good comparison right. Somebody, that's kind of inspecting us, like our team rights. Not it's not hey, we're out inspecting! Look what the bad guys you don't we're. Looking at what we do That's good guys, we're making sure we're doing the right things: internal affairs on its own, came off as kind of like that. Wasn't it thing when internal affairs is involve its kind like your investigating some some some bad. Something went something bad happened. Inspector general no just hit me as something more like a where it's almost like a compliance officer like kind of like hey just make sure everyone's kind of doing the right thing. It's not like it seems like there. on your side. Still ok, well, do you have a lot of effort If you do the right things there on your side,
if you do the wrong things. Just like internal affair, if you do and all the right things and internal first came along you'd, like all cool there here to keep people straight. If you're it. If you were a criminal or you are, if you did your corrupt right, what a training day your face moving yes, but trade is that is their internal affairs and training. So there should have been right. You got there, It should have been somewhat tracking hates what what's goin on where's this. me going, whereas this you know what it where these reports one year in the whole scenario for sure, but probably not in the movie, for it did given that particular storyline but yea over officer, yet that that's that guy, what's Denzil Washington's character, name in that movie, Duna Alonzo, ok, Alonzo, would be not a big fan of internal affairs knows, although he was, he was such a move or and so manipulative. He met a handsome internal affairs, people that were on his yea candidate imply
Not internal affairs necessarily but kind like he had some people inside can backing his moves. When they're talking about getting drug tested there, you there you so That's what that's the ideas in looking eyes in the Navy for twenty years. Obviously I saw some, I e g inspections go down or the idea would get call them like. Maybe someone saw some ammunition goes missing for an extent it's not the kind of thing where something happens. One time and you know the command. Would gonna handle that, but if there's some kind of an ongoing problem, the item may be someone's falsifying travel claims or something- maybe I guess a hearing in the eye g, whose Given unbiased, look because no, maybe the commanders wrapped up in it or whatever. So against other
disorder around all the time, and not only that you called for withholding ok, any other than the other place they could be used. Is, let's say you work for me and I'm a tyrannical jerk. You could yeah, You could then reach out to the eye g Jack, so you could reach out to the eye g sort of through a anonymous. You know, email or something and say: hey descried Jacko is verbally and physically abusive. The good Tipp to to his subordinates her. So there you go for his attitude. so this guy shows up as the idea now now like you said, it seems that they would be on our side. right yeah. That was my misinterpretation on that inspired.
General sort of like just another guy who's there or another department kind of been there all the time, that's kind of like Oleg, by the way, guys you guys are kind of slacking over here. So let's tighten that up where all the good kind of thing. So if you Doing the right thing, the right reasons: you'd have no reason to fear the I e g, but if you were doing some things that were shady you might you might not be very welcoming or you might be scared of them. And the idea is obviously too weird role to play right because you're, looking at your team and yours Whatever you can end up in a situation, we are accusing your team doing things wrong, so it's a dynamic He shows up as the Gee for this brigade, and- and this is the thing about Anthony Herbert.
He seems like a very what's the word here, he's like a straight shooter right la straight you. that kind of a little bit of black and white little bit of like hey right and wrong good or bad good or evil. She seems, like he's, got that kind of a personality, and- and actually you can go watch some of those If you see there's interviews of him on Youtube and you can see some of em, but you're going to start to see that that sort of in the first one that we went when I did cover the beginning of this book. Just to talk about his upbringing, you know he's a church going guy he's so he's a he's kind of he's kind of up, he's, very straightforward and right or wrong. That's what the personality comes across for the most part to me and
so this I d, you know he's gonna currently caught it comes out of the gate swinging. He kind of comes gates ringing and we go he's checking in to this guy. He checking with this guy who's, whose lieutenant colonel who they are the mayor of on K, you know some some outpost over there in Vietnam, the guy is the commander of the brigades, support baton, so he's check in and the guys say, and you know I can get you this. I did you that, but then he says I I expect some cooperation from you in return. He added like what I asked well like talking things over before they go to the general replied most things, never even half reaches years. If you and I cooperate, you know Herbert sort of things ourselves, trust each other get along and keep it all in the family.
Sera. This girl, I stared at him and said he had to be joking. I realized I want almost instantly. He was not I'm supposed to be an age, I said he seemed not to have heard launching, instead into a lengthy recitation of his immense, was its abilities as the man in charge of the Barrack, the Brigades Rear area headquarters. Everything on K was under his purview. He said men slept where he them to sleep and took their meal wherever he assign them and themselves in his clubs and theatres and bought from his post exchange. It suddenly dawn me that here was a senior lieutenant colonel, supposedly a professional soldier who is break about his job. As a building officer attacks, reserved for a second lieutenant in the states and usually are not too keen second lieutenant at that here. hold on and on about the scope of his influence, and I tried hard to look interested and concerned. Finally, he stopped. It was my turn, look colonel.
I understand your position: Just assigned me a room and a mass I'll be glad to cooperate. I said, he smiled and relax in his chair. But you have to wonder and my position to I added now he was staring I'm an eye g, so I work for the commander who, by the way, is general our not you since I work for the general all report to the gym. and if that isn't a satisfactory remained arrangement for you. Well, then you can talk it over the general. Maybe the two of you can work something out more suitable. His jaw lines straighten no simply. In the meantime, if you're finished, I have a lot of work to do. I concluded he looked ill. Is anything wrong. I asked rising from the bed, no, not at all he said rather glumly also rising. I have some things to do myself. I nodded the door to the outer Roman and he left the place was quiet until the sergeant said:
you just made an enemy, sir. He said from his desk real dangers. Enemy I walked into the outer room. Real dangerous, real dangerous real real dangerous. I repeated repeated slight smiling slightly yes, sir. He he's. Ok, sir, he said sheepishly when he noticed my grin no kidding, Sir he's really bad news. I took some papers from his desk. Looked at him. So am I sarge I asked I said, and I'm not kidding either you see where this is going right. So.
You can see where this is going. He's got his forming an antagonistic relationship ship with a guy right, I'm the gate, and you know I talked about this on your phone line. The other day we will we talk about. Take the high ground of the high ground will take you, but when you're on the high ground, you have to be careful that you don't that you don't launch attacks on other people from a position where you feel like you're superior to everybody else. You are in a superior position. This is no right. You, when you're on the high ground Yonah superior position by Let me tell you this when you start to launch attacks with the attitude that your superior you're, giving up some of the high ground.
So this is what really what's really hard line to walk in this book and as I try and talk, museum aka do a good job of it, but just because you're right. Doesn't mean you write and you're gonna see this often overcoming this guy is a like. Morally at least he appears to be, and again there, some controversy round that everything we're talkin about. He certainly appears if you read the words that he writes in this book, he certain Peers to be a morally upstanding human being that it and look at what he did. Look at his heroic actions from the last last podcast, what he did, the green this guy is willing to sacrifice for his brothers in arms. He's an incredible soldier. And you're gonna see how much his men how much his men love than revered, which is awesome.
But she's on that high ground- and he is this- is this- is this- is what he's doing he's on the high ground and he's looking down on others from the high ground and when you do that they don't like it. People don't like it, doesn't feel good yeah, that's interesting what you woody judges put it like you just cause. You're right does mean your writer. What right does meteorite year, there's gotta be a better way sentence. I just because you're right doesn't mean you should smack people in the four doesn't mean other people going to think that you're right just cause you right doesn't mean you write worth what you said actually does some kind of cool or failing that should be the quilt pasted, getting did little debates whatever. When my brother had told us before, where you know he is the account
There's no really understand gang debates with your brother. The idea is down for the cause and it goes heart, but anyway. So we do need given to these things. You know sometimes against my will or whatever and so finally came. The conclusion I said hey what you're saying is like right is right, but what you're doing is wrong like? so we say- and you say all the correct up- there's all true stuff, a factual and all this trouble. What you're doing re knows wrong like he can't like force people into debates. He can't like some kind of the same concept. Essentially you like this, it's taken. The he's doing the right thing there are no use to he's right is doing the right thing, but what you are kind of right now and of young and essentially in a bigger picture, is just a bigger picture and play you and look there's a there. There's things are universally morally wrong. There are things like that: well, almost universally morally wrong. There's things that you can say that that is not correct. That is not right. That should not happen.
When he starts he's getting into some of this stuff early on. Look you you're right, Colonel Herbert you're right, but you you're not gonna, make this easy and if you and if you, if you run around just slapping people from the high ground, what you're doing is your your gear. You have to get off the high ground to slap people you're coming down off the high ground slap people, and when I see how this unfolds fast forward a little bit within a few weeks. I realise that the desk surgeon had been worth listening to. He had a peg pound for pound, the brigade was garbage, discipline was lax, troops were slovenly, disrespectful and sluggish meant mentally as well as physically, it was obvious that on k it was
b. Is that in any case at least, there were no match for either the vehicle where the nerve Northeast enemies regulars. As the sergeant said, they prefer pot. Two to one but marijuana was only an expression of deeper, more serious failure. At on Kay, the true swore what they damn well wanted to wear, including b. and bracelets they cap their teeth with different colors red blue in gold, and they call Hierarchy, motherfuckers and printed form the green machine on their jackets and hats, some of them war, Earrings, a few sported knows rings and the battle flag of the confederacy flu for many of the bunkers. The sergeant was right about. Nobody, giving a dam to almost every one the other way. Kay was a staff and headquarters post rammed with. Airborne commando types in in any other war, it would have been ridiculous, but not Vietnam, every careerists who could we do his way
was over there drawing combat pay, while the citizens back home we're getting bled for the bill. The troops new best, what a humbug. the one. Seventy third was the largest brigade in Vietnam, with over thousand men attached to it. It was warning to the manual a combat brigade with absolutely no dead weight, but it was a humbug. There were five so called combat battalions in the brigade and not one of them had more than six hundred physically present for duty out of a total of ten thousand men. There were no more than three thousand at the battalion level, which means that some seven thousand, whereas and to support rules. Steakhouses pizza, huts clubs headquarters, the generals, mess artillery engineers etc even even among the approximately three thousand at the combat battalion level, not all we're looking or not all we're out. Looking with their rifles somewhere, of course,
but the battalions had their own rear areas, just like the brigade with their own steakhouses and their own clubs each. But I was composed of five companies, one of them shift out out outfit responsible for heavy weapons which left for companies for walk, no company in a battalion brigade had more than seventy five men physically present and ready to go. Thus each battalion yelled about three hundred combat troopers accept. That battalion assigned one company to guard its base of operations each day that left the MAC of two hundred and twenty five men available for the field or one thousand one hundred twenty five on the brigade basis and that would have been on a good day with everybody out and everybody with a rifle butt. Everybody carry rifle sir toted radios, some state back and typed some worked in company supply somewhere fireflies, as the day we helicopter resupply lifts and some will just plain screwed off. So on an average day, the hundreds
Third, airborne brigade could feel approach field approximately eight hundred men, if all that times were out in the I was in the brigade. All the battalions were never out simultaneously. We feel less than eight hundred out of thousand troops and the brigade on a country, I'd basis. It meant that out of five hundred thousand men, we had there at the peak of our involvement less than fifty thousand gauge in the business of fighting in the field and that figure apply only if all the other outfits we're doing as well as the hundred seventy. Third, as General Westmoreland like to say the hundred, seventy third was the cream of the whole crop. It wasn't that our kids didn't fight well in the field. It was just that so damn few of them ever got there. We had a five hundred thousand men army fielding less than one image division, indeed in world war, two or in Korea on paper. We were hell on wheels. The report tat a column for it in the field,
on paper. It was ninety eight percent or more every day. I filed those report. myself and they look truly magnificent. All the guys stake house in the field, all the guys at the club in the field, the generals orderlies in the field, the lifeguards at Esther, William Swimming Pool in the field, stunning apps We stunning and from that and from time to time I found myself inclined to go along with it. It was so mesmerizing that when I made Look over a battalion myself, I add another column, tomb reporting procedure just to keep things straight ass, the grass I called the new column. It was no joke. It was necessary and ask the Mcgrath Major actually in the field You can see this guy he's goin hard in the paint and again I'm right.
from the book. I'm not did these out of their we're. Gonna get a sort of some of the porch back against this stuff, but we have to. We have to take him for what he said we have to. Let me rephrase it: we have to listen to what he said. He goes on here. I soon discovered that almost all the problems at any level of the brigade were either the direct or indirect result of piss poor leadership being an I d say you guy he's, got this attitude and he's the algae. What are we making friends what you're production Being an idea is an extremely educational experience. I was spending about twenty nights a month with ass in the grass troops. Blending Well, as I could taking every opportunity for afforded me to discuss tactics, I found that, best ways to get to know any particular off. It was to accompany its men on an ambush generally
were disgrace, so this interesting, I guarantee announced you know. I don't use that word very often, he shows up is the idea. Was he doing starts going to the field all the time with the troops crises that nine abroad? Is that kind brother, that's like oh Alban, the army. We got troops, I'm goin in the field. So that's what he starts doing and, as you go out a patrol well this finds the fault was obvious. Poor leadership and more specific, absentee leadership few of the ambush patrols. I accompanied included a senior or noncommissioned officer the enlisted men at humped all day long and carried their load and then at night they works Did you stay awake and cut it again? The next day they took their sleep. Well, and when they could get it on petrol and for what most and, for the most part, the company manners did know what the hell was going on. A worse just didn't care, it was their fault, but the real culprits were at the higher of a battalion commanders who rode out the procedures almost verbatim from the fort bending operations and training handbook pass them down.
Subordinates and let it go at that they were covered The procedures had no relationship to the realities of combat, and you gotta remember that the colonel that originally told me about this book. There Why is this the same kind of vein as hack worth he's coming and you I've been a soldier and he loves his soldiers, but he Ah, no law he's got no love for the upper chain of command, even as you can see, Field standards which apply to combat the conditions are important and those were criteria applied, as I walk through be companies area in that he's, gettin into like actually being out there a good soldier where's, even the most ragged dear well, even in the field, he is trim, need and tight with pocket and no loose or hanging straps webbing. He does not. Where sunglasses he keeps a clean face and clean weapon unclean ammunition, these kids didn't caught it. The reason I could
conclude, was poor leadership leaderships most bordering on the battlefield. Good or bad. He was strictly a matter of leadership. He's he's talking about going on patrol with a couple different companies take the contrast I found between be company and seek It was the same battalion same area of operations with approximately the same number of troops in the same kind of mission. Yet, while company was a mess, see company was struck strategic terms. and ready around the clock. They were airborne man all the way one night, I went along inopportune size patrol commanded by young lieutenant. It was like clockwork like beautiful, swiss clockwork. We quietly paused for silence. He wrapped meal and drifting off further into the brush to set up shop. Nobody smoke, nobody talk, Charlie Companies, Lieutenant Webster were hunters and ass. I sat tight against a palm tree that night. I felt good about being out there with them. They had a purpose just before dawn Webster received orders such a good lesson just before
Dawn Webster received orders to drift back to base about twelve miles away. Helicopters were unavailable, he was told so orders were to foot it back and bring along the mermaids. The thermal food containers that way too thirty pounds work on these, how to carry Webster there to me in the early morning light it stupid. He said, but In order, I replied playing it straight. He looked at me step and then made up his mind yeah. He said well, fuck them we're not hearing. No goddamn cans back through the Bush turned to his radio. Man passed a word get rid of the garbage cans and all we're gonna. Take a hikes or keep it light. Don't leave anything for Charlie the radio and turned to leave and Webster stopped him with a hand on her shoulder the first fuck noise. Somebody gets it in the mouth. He warned and then turned to me I'll, take the guy and the asked chewing webs a real outfit, because he was a real leader. He had a good reputation,
and he earned and even larger one by the time we left the captain and be company and Webster and see company both at the same raw material. Yet one was running. A sloppy sad ass show that couldn't caught it, the other, commanding a tough tight, combat, ready and combat able outfit. The difference was leadership to their go. That's a friggin classic case of you get told, do something stupid what good leader do now. He could have had that argument. Babies have like hey, you allow me to carry the stuff, that's just a big pay, He asked he says you know what there's a colonel here fuck it we're not do that doesn't make sense. He says this is a legitimate study is made of that war. Most Americans will be stunned to learn that we killed a hell of a lot of our own people once again, a failure directly traceable to poor leadership. All it took was this.
A booby trap or the siting of movement, and we are prone to just open up to fire to the jungle and brush in every direction. any idea who might be on the right or After behind or ahead, we did it over and over again to ourselves. There's an example gives. Once again. We had killed one of our own. In this particular case he had caused his own death. It was said he was a young lieutenant out on his first patrol, according to them port he had set up the ambush and then left its perimeter to establish security, which was completely backwards, but nevertheless, the way he had been trained by the? U S: Army. When I was in Ranger School at Fort banning I'd see the example set dozens of times without any criticism, training bullshit we have too many damn academics, we
Reigned not only with blank ammunition, but with blank attitudes as well. Using instructors who had gone through the same kind of blank training, men who Their wildest dreams could not relate to a real combat patrol because it had never met part of their own experience. The army clean the instructors were combat veterans and some no doubt were, but most merely been in combat zones because of that kind of training the young lieutenant was dead. The report tailed how you'd gone out from the patrols main body to position opposed people himself, just ass. He had been taught and then headed back through the deep jungle and at I alone toward his main group in the daylight move, through brushes hard at night. It's a formidable task when his men, movement to their rear. The report related, they called him on the route the radio at least he had enough sense to take it along so
They got an amber set up. He goes to set some security out. Now is walking back. The guys that are in the ambush here noise. So they call him up. And say: hey, you know we hear noise behind us and what is lieutenant say he says cream and they did. He was dropped in his tracks, schooled trained, Ranger Airborne and he had ordered his own occasion. I try to control myself by thinking that anybody, so goddamn ignorant deserve to die, but it didn't work. I knew been trained by guys. Like me, not me personally, but by senior personnel. Like me, it was our fault. I tried to imagine myself doing what he had done. in several years earlier- and I couldn't he was worse on train. He was badly train. He had no bids being out there in time
large on his first patrol and his battalion commander couldn't beheld blameless. Either it was sickening. We were the healthiest wealthiest suppose Best trained soldiers in the world are army had the finest raw material of any country. We had the equipment Experience do better. We fought like a bunch of amateurs, a shovel coffee aside and looked around the talk there white cloth and flowers on the labels and paintings on the walls. It was ludicrous. I grab a chopper back to on K and on the way constructed the rest of the night. That night pitiful drama the dead lieutenant was from a little town of Pennsylvania. not far from where I had grown up, a telegram would soon arrived and the middle aged mother would collapse on the couch in the living room. While the father tried to catch all her through his own tears.
Imagine myself walking into the room and standing at the end of the couch, looking down on them and saying that I'd killed their kid. The vision passed and I Grateful that he wasn't one of my men and I wouldn't have to explain it even to myself we had much much too much whatever the reason was the nature of war, the difference in the attitudes of the personnel. The abundance was overwhelming, the Red Cross. For since came up with fifteen thousand individual Christmas packages for the time thousand men of the hundred semi third, his kind of going on around here about just what that giant, logistical and rear echelon. Footprint was like sergeant, ran the motel. They have a motel. The motel manager told me and booth that the tab for the brigades, entertainment ranks
the two hundred thousand dollars a month. So there's all this stuff is going on and end. Look, I'm heap eke out for a lot of stuff that he's investigating with gee, there's stealing going on theirs fraud going on theirs rape going on sexual harassment, sexual assaults and murder and prisoner abuse people going AWOL, there's all kinds of a criminal behaviour happening. he goes into this one, the record The state Coulson Pizza Hut were equally shocking. Tonnes of meat were unaccounted for, along with thousands of prefixed pizzas and truckloads of liquor and beer. Three years, you're Congress, would be pulling the covers off what would become known as the club scandals. It would invite generals at the very top and the very top sergeant of the whole army sergeant major Woolridge whom General Westmoreland himself had hand picked as the. U S, army. First top kick even
the army would be trying to sweep under the rug. It was in our brigade that Astrogation, which led to the scandal started. Our investigation, launched at general outlines request, the lines were being drawn and the eye g shop was no longer slough, doffing dinner conversations. what power and I had become for some comrades in arms, the enemy. Fast forward a little bit, he's looking. Yes, I remember he went there as the ideal, but he supposed to get a battalion and become of the time commander. Eventually it would be the the time and I would get it in April. He said this would necessitate, and tension and my tourist or I could get in my six month, minimum of command time, but it would be worth the extension he said the prison Member of the third, but I would have six months in by April, which was another anomaly of the Vietnam WAR. It mattered not
that a commander was doing a great job or a crappy job. Six months was the magic number officers got their tickets punched in six months and they got hell out to some other assignment to work on another credit or get there. Another coupon certified General Morland had said it a long time before when I was a major that the Russians were very envious of the way our through corps was getting tremendous, combat experience in Vietnam and even then I knew it was bullshit. It takes a commander a couple months to become acclimated to his responsibility. A couple more. Going and then he's gone, it was crazy. Besides, We were losing in Vietnam, a fact which the? U S, army, officers core seem not to want to recognize. It would have been better to have fun. The whole goddamn war, with a hundred honest to God, commanders than a thousand of the half ass, combat beaten We were producing. Whatever gave the notion, we could build a better mouse trap and six months it was a pipe dream and what was worse than it was that the leader.
I quote. The quote. Leaders we are grinding out would be not an asset but a detriment in a big war should one come, then they would be considered. Experts and the delusion would cost us plenty. So you go there, your retiring commander for six months, you get your box checked, and then you out and by the way now was on your you. You were between commander, so do you mean what you say is gold? Another thing he's gotta deal with franking frightening the deliberate attack on a non com or an officer bind enlisted men or men was not unknown in the one. Seventy third one sorry over the signal section had made them of raising Hell with the trooper about the cleanliness of his area, the man, why to claim more mine outside the sergeants room aimed at.
Through the wall of the switch at the switchboard, went to a phone and called his victim? The sergeant lost both legs. There is a frightening and second battalion too, with seven wounded. They try to Nicholson with explosives and on another occasion they try to blow up, is tat to operations centre. One of them and second patina, reportedly bore himself the bits with claymore mind, but my investigation failed to corroborate this it had been in his hands. So here's a guy with a claymore my mind in his hands that was certain There were two men in nearby bunker hindering the cancelling the controls of the mine when it went off, the victim had left the bunker to retrieve the mine at the request of the other two and somehow they said the circuit had been completed. I wasn't a real detective, but even though
even though to company commander swore it was accidental. I did sign my report with the recommendation that the criminal investigate investigation division check into it. They never did. Fourth battalion had a genuine insurrection heard much Sewell, the executor the battalion executive officer told me: an old, colonel living in an air conditioned trailer, become sort of a father figure for the riffraff and the battalion no kidding turning Tony heard said he's actually hold all the freaks and around him and made a personal body guard outfit with weapons and all. Old, gazers, dumb enough to believe their responding to him. The colonel cos His men, the mafiosi, they're, going to cause serious trouble. Tony fear, the worst.
The people we have over here. They're killers and I'm not joking. You better get word to General island before it's too late. I think I may be kind of confused, so fragging is what bragging is a term where it's at What it means is you got an officer or you got a senior enlisted person that you don't like and you kill him Elk. So that's the thing: that's it! there you go. There's two examples: they did. They put it movies, plain platoon, you simple soon right now what see I gave up resources. I am series I've never seen polluting. Well go assignment, go Hotchpotch! Ok, so Ok, though, gave aids and movies yeah there's a lot of things and movies put it.
That seems really weird. Obviously that doesn't happen nowadays where you'd certainly hope not. I mean I've. I've I've never heard of a case of case of flagging now, but yes in Vietnam, in absolute like there's their youngsters cases of right there. So so Imagine this! You are a young twenty one year old nineteen year old, eighteen year old person you don't believe in this war, you don't like it, you don't want to die in incomes. You know Lieutenant Rambo. That's like we're. Gonna go out, we're gonna, take the fight to the enemy, and you think you can get. And he's going to charge. You would be a coward or whenever you're killing people- that's what's happened over there. So you gonna combat operations into a firefight, lieutenant young lieutenant happens, get shot. It gets on training they technically that's what he did
was trying to do where it's like a you know where you see. If this guy's gonna play ball with us in our in our group, he doesn't and then he set em up to get killed. That's well! Yeah, that's a frank and tries to yeah. That's a real thing thing. It's real thing There's another you do an investigation of a company that got creamed. He said his company like took massive casualties and he's talking through it. What it happened with you about to talk through with General Allen. It had been marijuana to get back to Alan and he didn't like it one bit. The company had been creamed and there wasn't a single dead enemy. just that we write it up as a lesson learned, one that even admit wit trooper could understand. No one individual had been at fault. I reasoned it had been marijuana and is bad.
was it would serve as a valuable purpose, usurper valuable purposes, a combat lesson for the living marijuana, and guns. Don't mess mix the Jew? RO was staring at me when I finished you must be mad. I said Do you realize what you're asking he said walking over to his window for another glance at those goddamn flowers? He this guide flowers like ten planets outside of his window, Can you imagine what you ve just suggested? Those were american kids captains and a hell of a lot of american kids are dead. He threw up his hand disgusted, shot, sat down at his desk, and you want me to I'll hire headquarters and their families that they were on dope, not dope. Sir Marijuana, and we don't have to say that everyone was on it just point out that the reason that they had, let that that that was the reason they had had their asses creamed. He stood up again I'll have to think about it. For the time being, Keep it to yourself understand. I stood up, I understand, sir, he sat back down again and I will consider it
Later I read about a company's fate in the stars and stripes and in our own brigade newspaper, the Sky Soldier You accounts were nearly identical: the company had put up one hell of a fight, but I ve been overrun. Numerically superior force at a substantial costs to the enemy. It was a more glorious chapter in the glorious history of the hundred semi third airborne brigade, the official accounts of that night on the hill, where a goddamned credit to every mother son who fought worth a leg in Vietnam. The general no doubt believed it saved some face. I never mentioned it again, so you know like this mass cover. Ups right and no lessons learned by the way, so that lesson learned does get passed on anybody. the story of a company's heroism and gallantry was published about the same day. The lieutenant colonel Joseph ROS Franklin join the brigade
replacement, as the deputy Commander Franklin had graduated, last point: nineteen forty nine wanted Distinguish service Crossing Korea, his head. completely hairless shaved it. He looked like a bad ass, combat commander. It was impressive, no doubt and his teeth sparkled, they say he's a breath of fresh air abbot remarked. So here comes this guy Franklin and I think, he's the most decorated officer from his class at West Point, this guy Franklin and that's from Korea. Do you think you know if you were decorated, highly decorated, veteran from Crete, and I was decorated, highly decorated, better for Korea, there's a good chance that you and I could meet me like hey bro, right on right, like we could just be we'll. Have this
and a unified pasts right. Sir. What else could I can be a little bit threat in some competition should have some. Gus unerring is right. We could have that competition between you and me little bit braver than you and my metals are a little bit later. Whatever her oil unfortunately knows, DNA in ain't gonna be blowing out. Here we go how about a briefing he finally suggested and dont pony paunches punches Herbert? When I finished he had one question whether ad hoc, we're worse, sir, but you'll see for yourself and is not because the calibre the troops either we have the finest top sergeants. ever known in the army and we have the healthy healthy as tough as private. You can find anywhere. Worse general. He said Not really I set out is ok, then leadership. Sir. I said
and then he not then, as he nodded I related every last year I had seen in the brigade when I finished I try them all directly to lack of leadership How do you mean that Herbert Franklin ass? It was Finally, what I wanted him to ask troops are ragged ass because they have no one to emulate that they respect. Men are dying because leaders don't care enough to lead. It is an hour particular, although he's included, but there problem is at a much lower level at the level of the battalions and the companies, if followed regulations. I'd be recommending courts martial for every last battalion commander, I've seen in his brigade and I've seen them all the right policy books, have their men initial them and then try to correct any value: thou violations they after they occur. Nobody by example. They command from fifteen hundred feet up and a chopper, then and they were spit shine boots like they're on parade, while their men hump through the Bush with ass, his half out of their trousers. Everyone plans being
but nobody sees to it, but there that their plans are carried out ten colonels fight their battalions on paper, as if they were chest pieces on a board. That's Herbert. the office with definite quiet until he spoke You recommend Herbert well, since you asked kick a couple battalion commanders in the ass, get them out of their burden onto the ground. Make them spend a few nights out with their units and dont permit them. Right to transfer the men, they consider bad news, forced them to go after asses and lead and then what brigade, that's exactly warm, I am here Herbert. He said, sir, to lead. He said that, are the brigade is getting a new general to lead. General peers is damn sick of AL and his entire hodgepodge he walked to the door. Things are about change Herbert for the better he stepped out into the darkness. I said files back in the cabinet sat down for a moment. Think about it. Maybe he was going to make a deal
I mused, maybe, as abbot had told me frankly, would be a breath of fresh air. So after starting with the low but growing rolling out. then we have break Brigadier General John W. Barnes took over the one. Seventy third, thus making a complete change command that as but it said it was supposed to be bring a breath of fresh air to that part of Vietnam. So then things start to go sideways. There's is little incident that goes down the next day. I was summoned to Elsie English by Franklin. Deputy commander, the brigade, you're, no disloyal son of a bitch. He said for openers. What are you talking about? I asked you did want to my battalion commanders when a year, but Matters are repeated, yes, goddammit want to my nose trying to lie out of it either, because your
he's got a swing. I was dumbfounded until it and the explained that he'd heard about the call from northern into general island and nor Instead, you suggested that CALL Franklin said you did it without permission, you think I should have done. I asked come to me: that's what for what reason the commander, that's why you said and all along the General Barnes was the new top man in the brigade. My eyes were wide, but I try to keep the emotion out of my voice. Damn well, I was treading on very thin ice. You, sir, are not my commander. The general is, you can t tell us, is like a mad move. He exploded. and the breath of fresh air was gone forever. I was, he said again, a no good son of a bitch and a disloyal liar. I had continued till I had continued tried to sink angel and others in the brigade, from my personal gain as the Idee General Barn, stepped out of his trailer and Franklin hailed, him general. Do you know what this Colonel of yours did he said shoving his finger into my chair,
the EU legally war general outline of investigation. We talked about so things are going sideways yeah in that it was sort of the three I couldn't even cover the the thing that he did. cause it was like. It was almost nothing I called at Northampton who had been out. Indeed, it was now in his new job and asked him. If he had heard about the investigation is general trouble. Now that's what he did. He basically gave a heads up. But it was like a little but outside the chain of command to general or sorry, Colonel Franklin freaks out fast forward a little bit. He He is in Hawaii with on leave with his wife Mary grace
Mary grace find me asked him about Vietnam awry. Screw up. I said your aunt I wore Tony Herbert no not what I mean I mean I'm just discussed I would have seen happening to the army. I said she looked puzzled. I had already told her about getting battalion command and though she knew it meant that I be more vulnerable to injury or death than I wasn't as an Idee? She took it as I do it always taken my career? She was proud she said, but now she looked bewildered as I talked about some of the things I had seen, this war is not only killing our people, which ruining our army, the whole damn show is run without leaders and we're losing really losing we talk directly after Finally, she asked about what would happen when my Vietnam tore was finished Wait till you hear this. I said grinning you're, gonna,. but she said throwing some sand my way right, Colonel Herbert wrong. Mrs Herbert I've got worse. the command and commanded no staff College Leavenworth Autonomy, that's great and our
I'm going to try to finish my doctorate. Maybe then I can really contribute something to the army. stop for a little bit. I kissed Mary Grace and lay back in bed staring out the ocean through the glass doors at the end of our room. I thought about them all night in about the years that have passed, and the things that had happened. All of us now is nineteen sixty eight and I was thirty, eight years old, I had a wife and daughter and I killed one hell of a lot of people and watched a lot more suffer and cry and die, and now MA was gone and PA. Mr Irene, You are what you are you dumb ass lithuanian. I thought that night is the moon illuminated the far end of the room
you are what you are and what you always wanted to be. A soldier gets back to Vietnam and. I'm just going through so much of this book or come to skipping, so there's so much detail and hear about all these different things that he is dealing with these rules. ships that he has with Colonel Franklin and and General Barnes, and how these things are just going sideways and he gets. This one point take a look, take a look at and please read all before your comment. Re said handing me a file folder. The investigation has been handled by major Henry Boyer, the VIC executive officer, second battalion I flip for she turned to the first page of three inch by five and color photograph stared at me it was a picture of a visa.
These may a lying on his back and what appeared to be a shell crater, face had been blown away in gilt beneath the picture was engraved peace on earth from the peacemakers see company hundred seventy third airborne brigade or something that effect I glanced at re seek second, the time he see company of second battalion, he said I turn the page and read it through well, he said I put it down on his desk. It's a cover up your you damn right, it's a cover up. And little old Paul here is not going to be caught in the middle. You know what Franklin wants. He asked While waiting for me to answer Frank and wants but under the rug, their exactly fifty cards out like that he wants him gathered and covered, and what is that a possible well, then I guess we just have to put the burden on Christ. He said
owing to Captain Christ or company officer of sea company, so, like it's just big cover ups goin off make this go away. No one everyone's word about their career All right through through all through through all this chaos, he's been the Idee at the hundred. Seventy third and you dont, he's gonna get a battalion because he's kind of created these bad relations but he ends up getting tasked getting awarded getting task getting charged with taken over second battalion, so we should be working for the guy that has hated him as the idea as
talkback my sock! That night I decided to use the next twenty four hours of prep time at one to work out the second battalion in my mind I lay down and began in the in the state. You might be able to go in and take your time with changes, but not Vietnam in the state. You could look around for a bit and maybe take a couple weeks before actually making a change, Vietnam is a different story. Take it. I'm in Vietnam, and men died or lost legs or arms or eyes. So I had, Had he been looking and thanks to me, opportunities is an ideal and and cultures help you about as much as anybody could know about second battalion and it all boils one primary conclusion, like the entire brigade Second, the time was fat in every area accept combat. The solution was to trim when he goes on about how is coming, get rid of people or move people into more combat rules cause there's all these people that are not doing combat fast, what a little, but I didn't like the way Nicholson had handled the men who
on the way home, frequently come back to the rear as much as thirty days before they were scheduled to depart. That was a bunch of crap. I learned my lesson in Korea. Rotation had been established and tigers name pussies. So when we talk about there and we cover that an end of the last part cast. in world war? Two, when you went on employment for the war, you alone appointed for the work you are going. Go home when the war was over in Korea. when they started hey you're, going to deploy for a six boil a year. You can apply for a year and then you get to go home or what is that do well? According to him, it turns tigers in the pussies. They had hung back and play it safe until they were until we wind up and came up with a new policy. He who fought up front went home up front I didn't have the authority to establish that policy in Vietnam, but I did have the authority to decide who came back to the rear and when I
make sure that a man kept his ass in the grass until seven days before his departure date, and I was determined that the battalion would start rewarding achievement. Rather than failure, under Nicholson. The last battalion commander, if a guy wrapped the sergeant in the mouth or if we refuse to fight, he came back to the real. Sat on his ass waiting drinking seen, shows smoking pot and screwing everything that wiggled town until he was courtmartialed or given in article fifteen, at which point he would a small fine for his vacation of several weeks or months. Then he went back to his unit and did it again, but not with Every mother son was going to hump. It carry a share of the load, just like the few already out there. There were other. So, that's, that's! That's the secondary consequences you gonna, think about or unintended consequences that you gotta think about hey. If ECHO Charles, you, no pun,
This is putting sergeant where we're going to send it back to the rear and what's eating either get drunk. You no smoke pot. Get a vacation, have to pay a small amount of money and you come back right down. Dude again cause you don't fight, you weren't you here. I would actually giving you what you walk. Yes kind like the kid, the teenager rate with the with the videos like, he gets punished and sent to his room, but then his room is like video games in magazines and yet all of his phone internet, yell stuff, so he'll go when things get tough in real life. You know go mould alone, are not whatever his heel. Acta, don't get centres room here. That's why the punishment the modern day punishment with kids were teenagers is full yeah, but he glared scheme ever strudel. My kids like, if I say that my kids, what mused swam away quick, you're seeing Ozark. I have not seen
ok, so it's like it anyway. I don't go to deep into it, but basically there there put. Simplify that they're running from these the drug cartels so they're trying to lead the kind of disappear, and so it's like two, two kids, one is twelve. One is like that enough: one thousand six hundred and seventeen. and then the two parents, so the branch like hey, we got to go we're changing our identities and all the stuff. So here give me your big girl just starts flipping out and it's kind of one of those things where extremism, specially can kids, while it depends on who you are, but lots of times he had so attached to that phone or your leg. It well to the deal. It's the social thing like we know when I was a kid dinner you get, grounded right, watch meant you, you couldn't see your friends You couldn't see your girl friend, you couldn't see your brows like you're, grounded well nowadays, you, like you, said
and send a rubber you're. Someone hang out of France is really beyond sap chat. That's gonna be happening, so setting up the room doesn't really is not really grounding. Do we grounded how to get that device. Did that phone. There's! Somebody kids at Madame you right now is what he wants fifteen I'm your commander and you you do something wrong. Then you can be punished. Under the uniform code of military justice. You see I M J article fifteen. article fifteen means that I can doc your pay. I can reduce shrank like I can apply punishment to you now. You have two up, you can, you can say you can accept, you can accept the U c m J or you can say I want a court martial in Education
a lawyer, you're gonna, get a jury and all that kind of stuff to article fifteen. It's gonna, be lesser. It's a little. a gamble, sometimes depending on you know what you did and cause you could say: you're the ie. If I'm your boss- and you did something wrong, people might be telling you just do just take to take article. Fifty and your job was pre lenient. You know he he's pre people might be like you don't want. Do you see I m j? We don't go article fifty were dark. We crazy he's gonna, throw a ball catch. Those kind of like we're like up. I guess not like a plea bargain, then As you know, you're not like a plea bargain. It's just accept in your fate got with what your boy, ass, his gun at your boss has the the authority. Article four you see, I M J to say: ok, ECHO trawls, he all apiece a gear from platoon were kicking about the budget. he's gonna go to use your jack, so you gotta you gotta me. I'm your boss!.
and I say: ok used ogier we're taking dried it. You have to pay back the money I'm busting, you down in rank and you're gonna, go to the brig for thirty days there you now good. Let's say you didn't you thought you didn't steal it and you you won't make a case, you gotta, I request court martial, in which case now we got it Marshall. Now you get a lawyer that says he's a huge borrowing that gear and everyone that you're lying so bad the kind of similarity to going to trial kind of you know how guys, like I know I'll, take that we. So in that case it is, except for you don't necessarily know what the bargaining rights does not like. A plea, bargaining, manhandling ally's play a little bit of blind you it's a little bit of blind bought. It sort of is a little bit of like a look. I know I kind of this enthroned myself at the mercy of court boss. I screwed up. I'm sorry hit me pleading guilty, essentially my inner kind away, because the nearly you're kind of
It is up to the judge. Idiotic, ok, amply pronuba foreigners are kind of that conference at the mercy of the cork. That's all fifteen. What is forgive by the way. When debating what are you in of her distant saves old? I'm taking your trident. What is I mean, you're, not a maybe she'll anymore, you do straight out became get it back, can't go to deal, you can everything right no kind of that there is no use in the Navy, though you could still be the name, but that's not your jam if you're sealed, typically not now your damn. I remember there was a guy that stole a pair of sunglasses from who, from I'm not another guy. The up there. had his day, patter cabins mass the next day for a little article, fifteen took him. He was gone like that. I was. I was pretty new guy, because if you are a fee
in the team lawyer, this brutal you you're gonna, get. You are gonna, get crushed like you again there's there's you can leave anything out national teams, you can leave a friggin diamond encrusted knife and no one will touch it. seems real steal anything in the teams, and that makes sense, especially like so you, when you're cohesive, are supposed to be cohesive. Team ever gonna steal something like knots, unheard of still his sunglasses to mean day, especially you get issued. Sunglasses, hey supply, guy need new, some of us, and I don't even know what all the circumstance were behind it, cause, let's face it. We all have oak lease barrier
can you do all wearing the same sunglasses so out of dew tat, some engraving on their scratched, his name into at whatever, but man this guy was gone, and that makes even less sense when you think about it, because not like you're, not Where am I gonna, do to steal and put him in your house under your pillar, something like this. Beware, morale who knows. Maybe there was other things that I don't know, but I was in who guided know anything. There is like hey, don't steal shit on my goals were not stealing a Mozilla things if friggin piecemeal, once when we have our own of my first shipboard deployment. The guy's store. I had my gear up and a guy stolen knife, It wasn't for my platoon, but there's somebody on the ship that maybe was a marine. Maybe the navy got, I don't know, but you didn't find them know. We never found them same thing like what's he gotta do is get hide that knife and then take it home. What it under his pillow like is not able to use it because will see him anymore. From off the ship.
Yeah. Exert even hereby stealing from someone else on the team is like raw that yeah, you know that's what that guy anymore, the bar. We had a guys, I free his name. He said a video game systems like a Super nintendo or something like that from one of the guys in the dorm through on the full botting bottom, and there are like weird, as my friend Davy he's one got it. It stolen from Hughes, like looking around for academic this confusion Alex. I steal your whole video, the audio dorm room, any live in the same dorm. Do so what'd you set it up for doors down what I'm saying so it was just gone, so he was confused and then after wild. Like know, someone stole this, you know so that you know they went through the saying and they're like dusting for prints, which was like you know that doesn't matter cuz, everyone comes in and out of the dorm, so just doesn't didn't even matter, but I think they suspicious of this guy are annoying became suspicious or he was already some suspicious so
us gifts- and he went There is room in just was like you know what I mean get to the bottom of the thing any is like asking them used to not what are you talking about all matter? Whatever became his big thing, and then he looked in the dorms. These beds read the beds are like tat and you can like take, a drawer under the bed and all the stuff for it. You know everything that I get a Finn benefited the door, so he pulled out. The drawer of the better like took unite, can take out the drawer, her so, unhooked didn't like took it out in boom. There weren't Davy did that day. We did that to gather guys the call out? Essentially buddy, you don't call somebody you better get the stuff, casino dynamism and super suspect them here. He was a cause. That's weird to imagine accusing someone right, but also you can kind of tail We I am looking at someone you can tell you. and consider
Israel is an elder lies here in usually but and consider I mean, I'm sure it's like this in the military to where you kind of concern, who could or had the opportunity or whatever, and if they did, what would they have done if at all they keep allowing Freddy African practice the other day. I comment on my shits gone exactly right here, so I think there is that kind of going on as well, and then we had some circumstantial evidence. Then he read his face and privately so they arrested straight up. Animals live alone like I can't believe this even happened like. Why would you Did you just wasn't computing for a lot of us DA mayor S, amusing jail, so this guy, I remember his name ironical amounts to mean when here so he calls the coach, like you know, even when you call Let's face it like you get into some sort of thing. You say: hey go to this thing like: what can we do to sort of work it out? So he calls the coat
he's. Ok, this would happen I'm in jail. I think you need to get bail out cause. He didn't live in Hawaii use from the from the mainland. So it's like you know, authorities anyways calls the coach and the coach right. Here's distorting goes right in their hands. I like to say that we don't like leaves, no, don't be stealing, don't steal. Otherwise, you gonna get. You see, I M J article fifteen I'd going back to the book here. There were other things running through my mind that night tactics, for Instance the infantry maxim was just a slogan and I wanted it to be in practice, find em fix them, fight him and finish him. But it simply wasn't being used. I wanted to that find useful,
since an intelligence reconnaissance cartoons being used as a special ambush unit rather than for reconnaissance, the battalion had to have eyes and ears. Its area of operations was border on the east by the I'll China scene and on the what shall try to see and on the Asked by string mountains running north and south from those really the trooper with binoculars could see in most cases, all the way to the sea, but it was being used fix them fire and maneuver one p them down with fire, while the other runs up around the rocks and comes from the flank or from the behind fire maneuver have always been the key to infantry success. Vietnam? We were just calling and artillery and backing off to wait. The next day we would go pick up the pieces and generally there weren't any, except for the women in kids. You hadn't had the sense to make it out of the area, fight him close can destroy the enemy, the military enemy, kill them recapturing, but an empty
eyes prisoners, because they give information that leads to more prisoners. Dead men are just dead men capture them if possible, but if not finish them off, good? I lay there in my sack that might trying to pull together my mind where I had been and what I had done and how I got to where I was at TAT very moment in time and space I was alive. I decided because a two things, sheer luck and not forgetting I attributed nothing else, but I knew The presence of mind had a great deal to do with one's fortunes. I also knew there were some. eggs beyond anybody's control, they just happened. Are the supplanting preparation or scaler courage or cowardice, and went to sleep thinking all that the next day, I poured over my battalion plans again and when I the sack the next night. I knew I was ready, as I've ever been. I slept well so
jump through some of this stuff right now. This is where he starts takes over the battalion. He starts squaring things away. He starts going on operations he's they'll having it's not an my process not like the battalion is new commander like we're going to go now: everything's perfectest, it's not like that and ass, he started dig into the scorn on some mobs. He started digging to try and find out how to get the patterns. Moving in the right direction he's got. He sits down a talker one of one of these lieutenants, You talk of his lieutenant in the lieutenant cannot eat this. Lieutenant doesn't want to go in a field, doesn't want to go in the field any trying to figure out. Why, in the loot, the lieutenant says you know not with this particular leader and this is why not it doesn't want to say things, viruses tell me any and then he says he opened up. He had been able to meet her and his group at policed up a detainee from a village that had reported the
tails to a c o over the company net, the petition begin to tie up the detainees for extraction when the sea. who called back the lieutenant told me the ceo said what they had out. There was a K. I e a dead dink, a body count of one to which lieutenant replied that he did not have add person, but a detainee and reasonably good health. so he says no. What we have is a dead being killed, to get away. The lieutenant continued. So what did you say? I asked? Well, I told him that I might be a civilian, and what did he say he said? That wasn't hardly possible because once he's dead he's a dink which, in I was about. The only way was played in Vietnam, regardless What a person might have been before he was killed afterwards. He was a dink very very day. Few people ever reported killing a civilian, regardless of how unavoidable that death might have been, and very damn
you. Dead. Civilians failed to be colluded embody counts. It was time to stop the lieutenant, though, before his narrative went beyond the point of no return. I held up my hand how you doing That makes sense. I know I jumped in the story, so basically this young ten, it is there, you have it. you tell me that they have captured and he calls his company commander and says: hey Company commander, I gotta I gotta have captured endeavour Y gotta detainee we know what he wanted to do in the coming off. Back and says you don't have a detainee, you have a killed in action and the other the term dank obviously uses a slur, and but it doesn't just mean it means enemy. That's what they're saying if you kill someone their enemy, wait so easy implying that use the. He should kill em up here about that's what he's he's about to get to that port and and Herbert says along and he says, hold it. I cautioned him, sir, look before you
too far. There are some other questions, but first you have to realise that if you say what I think you may be going to say, I'm gonna have to report it. Therefore, it's only fair in by the regulation, in fact, is required by regulations and the? U c m j that I make you aware of your rights. Do you understand? Yes, sir, well, then, let me ask you this: do you understand your rights under article thirty one? Yes, I do well. Let me go over them again for you anyways, you don't have to say anything anything that you sake be used in court, you can see, right now, our or you can continue, or you can have a military council right here. While you do talk, if you wish and that's it That's it in a nutshell! Now, do go on, I've gone this far, for Christ's sake, lieutenant at least think before you answer my next question: ok, ok,. was the execution in fact carried out. Yes, sir. It was now lieutenant
here comes the big one and let me state again that you neither have to answer nor you expected to answer just because I'm your commander, if it's going, to incriminate you I want, to understand that part for sure. Do you? Yes, sir? I do all right then, who actually did the killing He started to answer and then stopped abruptly abruptly Sir I prefer not to answer that one right now. It's ok with you that Europe I gave you keep to yourself until I get back to you? Do you want to put in writing? I think that I think I'd better do that. He said I said, handing him a pad, bring it back when you finished forget about going out with you company right now? It can wait so obviously bad situation. He starts to run it up the chain of command who's that include Franklin. What
frankly, say what the hell kind of commander are you. He asked it's none of your business. What occurred before you assumed command our backing with an investigation, I said, there'll be no one. Starvation says Franklin its work. hired sir I goddammit Herbert I'll handle it. I said I'll handle it and I will if anything it's done, it will be done with the generals approval and it will be done by me. Can you under and that much I understood Sir, do you wanna statement for major Boyer? I want thing until I'm ready, which means I dont want anyone discussing it either. That So, while he's dealing with all this and while he's continuing to create friction,. and again, there's so much of this in there's so much in this book.
Many good lesson, tears, here's a lesson he's talking about planning and how we plan. is he still leading troops you still, but still do it all kinds of operations He says this to his troops. I want you all to come up with the plans and recommendations. I told them and I meant it hell. I didn't it has to be an expert in anything about If your leader just write this whole thing down, I didn't profess to be an expert in anything. I was damn son of a fine coal minor, and could use all the help I could get if anybody came with a brainstorm? I damn sure wanted to hear about it, and that includes Gesture for a command a raid on honey, joy from Doc tally. I concluded I really wanted to listen to them? If a man makes a contribution to a plan, he has a material interest in making it succeed. So the trick is to forget about taking credit
for ideas and to persuade others that they are their own take notes. I talk about that very thing all the time He also says I fought out everything and tried not to waste words, or time frequently may have appeared two been spur of the moment response, but it was generally prepared, even though they were volunteers as all paratroopers are the grants were different. Their grunt were by nature different. They were career man in the same sense of officers and most of the senior and Suez were career men and they were. sensitive to opportunities for promotion or self aggrandizement, but because. The visuals, are aggressive and competitive by nature. The grunts did require an opportune, to express those instincts or, in a word, a chance to operate. I knew the girl, how I was one of them promoted
to be sure, but still a grunt. I've been in the man all over half my higher career. I'd fought, as one had been wounded is one, and I understood what made a grunt tick, because I knew what made me take. I'd also enforced enough to gather enough psychological insight to compress In them and myself even more deeply and thoroughly, at the same time gaining enough military experience to recognise that they were the best raw material in the world. were bigger and healthier and more intelligent and better educated than any soldier. The. U S. Army had ever had the opportunity to use before and they were support, to any soldier, any other country was getting even if our training shortcomings and there were By God, plentiful, grants in Vietnam were still the best trained men around, as well as the best fed and best equipped. Moreover, I think I recognise something that must have slipped by most of the brass, including Westmoreland and later Abrams, that the land
of the hair on a man's head, wasn't nearly as important as the calibre of the brain inside. I knew The ground was a man just like me and that he was entitled to the same respect. I myself demanded his dignity was sacred, It could never be changed the commander scream and ran enraging curse like a sailor, but he could never encroach on the troopers dignity. if the leader attacks is troopers dignity. The trooper has but alternatives to fold up roll over and die or strike back. I was determined to follow the pattern that had worked for me in the past to allow my men to make at least as many of the same kind of mistakes. As I had made, and God knows, I have made my share and more to deal with honestly to do it. rest admiration, respect love, patriotism and my own conviction that he represented with all my
faults with all its faults: the greatest country in the history of civilization and the mightiest combat arm this universe ever assembled under a single power to persuade him that has not really been equipment and mass production and one World war one world to Korea for us, but rather blood guts, Courage, knowhow and a steadfast devotion to a cause, respect your people. I lay the strategy for my battalion. It was some lousy war when a piddling battalion commander had the lay out a master strategy, but that's the way was hell. Nobody else laid out anything for these men either from a national or international perspective. I owed it to them.
Give them some kind of purpose and a reason at the battalion level, at least gotta know why you're doing what you're doing and he sat there and I'm in here that fast forward, a little in fact the whole damn. U S. Army in Vietnam was crazy. The journal, Westmoreland, Abrams peers, Rossen Depew Richardson you'll, Ramsay and the rest were all. working on the premise that they were the best and that whatever problems we were, having were the fault of the commanders at lower levels, not my fault, bull shit. Well shit. The major leadership problem in Vietnam was the generals and the rest of the senior officer core, the colonels, the lieutenant colonels and the majors. The captain's lieutenants enlist men want to blame the generals.
we're has been or never, bands from world war, two vintage who had paper images built up by the public information people. So again, you know where were reading this book and really he's placing the blame on everybody else, which is not good. but he's telling what it looks like from his perspective. This is about. Those They walked and talked like leaders in war ribbons and uniform. So is only reasonable that back in one can they were regarded as leaders and were listened to. You're in the military? You must be a great leader right this. We still that anybody that was the military must be a great leader.
I wish it was true. It's not always true, unfortunately, again. he wasn't just talk this guy's, not just a talker. This guy's, not when he's fucking smack about these other leaders, he's just he's makin and then oh they're, not leading he's leading he's actually leading that's all kinds of stories in here? Here's one! I crossed the yard, did go out on a mission across the yard to the bunker nailed myself up against its outer wretch joy. I shouted using the name of the programme we had set up for leniency in return for immediate unresisting, sure surrender, joy, always. There was no response. I waited then stepped back and far too quick rounds into the sandbags around the doorway, then stepping back against the wall. I lifted a grenade from my belt. The old woman on the porch screamed, and there was one hell of a scuffling inside the Bronx bunker. They tripped all reach other coming out here,.
First! You Hoy meet your joy joy. They were shouting. I figured you were I mumbled to myself. There were three of them too. Khakis in the wounded guy stripped down to his shorts. I'm not toward warden? Keep them covered up I'll get. The bunker Get it Sir Smitty said trotting across for me. God dammit keep that covered. I shouted I'll, get the damp damned bunker I'll get paid by the same people. I don't think it was bravado just that. I had learned years before that. If you wanted to be followed, then you had to get your ass out and led by setting the example. If I expected other p but go down inside bankers in holes after the enemy than I Are we ready to do it myself?. This time it was my turn I kept my rifle in front. someone, shouted grenade and the others hit the door. I dropped in one knee holding my head down low in front of my shoulders. I saw the guy break out at a Bush
bush with another grenade in his hands. I squeeze twice on the trigger and watch the rounds. Slam is to his chest, driving up against one of the palms bouncing him off into the bushes too. Our men have been hit by the explosion. I didn't remember even hearing the grenade detonate except vaguely, perhaps that's how, important, grenades work for me at least I'd seen them all over the world and it use them and it had them used against me over and over. I did not really. back them as a weapon. They were charges grew up and out label at arm's length stay down flat and the worst you would do was good. you, a concussion run got some shrapnel in your ass Jim, I said and turned to the re back grenade came from the building. You take that I do not take this one. I turn them of the M16 Western, followed around the building. I heard Lorraine fire. Just then a grenade exploded the building just in time to see the re kicking away the reeds and
adding the body from between the false walls, the guy, had been edged into a section about the size of a bird cage, Lorraine, nudge, the bloody, the boy. body with his foot a loser, sir. He said quietly gently with that same And is worse than you here in the movies just before two years ago, Damn loser dink. He rolled it over gently. The guy had been a real trooper and he had tried to be do just as you ve, been told, just as so many of our kids have been told and I've tried had they been his place uncle home would never even know the poor bastard was dead, nor given a shit if he had known like, on our side. He was just another statistic: we left him there in the dirt We started back down the trail at a trot, an outright run,
Was out of the question because, more than likely, if you broke out of the Bush running, you were dead ass, even at our speed, it was more than a few seconds before we reach a large grassy clearing the American lieutenant the advisor was on my left ass, we entered the clearing and the rest of. we're standing around and no particular formation crossed the clearing. I saw one man, a Vietnamese holding the girls hair with his left hand, bending her head back bearing her throat. his right. Arm was around her neck and a knife, in his right hand, was dug deeply into her flesh beneath and too left of her esophagus. All we had to do was poor and she was gone One of the children was hanging onto her pajamas screaming other childs face was being steadily squashed into the sand by the foot of another vietnamese soldier, out with suffocating. I should
the american lieutenant out of the way and shouted something staring at the guy with the knife and the girls throat he was staring. me too, these these vietnamese. These are south vietnamese soldiers. In this, the first person that he pushed out of the way was a was an american adviser, so he he comes on the scene in the sum in this clearing and theirs in America. Lieutenant he pushes that guy out of the way, these vietnamese soldiers that the american lieutenant was an adviser to this is happening. So these these are south feed me soldiers with it with the young girls we uphold and hold the night is young girls throat. So this is our ally. So this The enemy soldiers staring at Herbert with a knife to the girls throw back to the book with great ease he pulled. The blade across
her blood spurting gush down the front of her pajamas and she dropped the darkening sand, pulling the child with her. It took no more than a second from the instant he moved the knife until she crumpled in a lifeless he per baby still screaming still pouring out her legs. Her killer jumped back in the group of Vietnamese with him, the guy who did suffocating the child. I should have shot them on the spot, while I could still identify them the rest of it detainees were lined up against the bushes, for the men were already dead lying often, the grass to my with their heads blown away a Vietnamese. Soldier was parading up and down in front of the survivors waving a pistol I noticed that one of the four dead men with the stud we had captured in the hut, I felt myself go empty. Something dream for me in that moment that you that I have yet to ways you dumb son of a bitch, I screamed grabbing the american lieutenant by the by his shirt, in that instance,
is only a flicker of flick away from killing him they passed. I combine turned him loose just what the hell did. You had happened here lieutenant he was only adviser. He said there. They were only doing a job, they knew their business guerrillas won't protected under the Geneva accords. They were following orders, oh god. I thought The big bad asked American who had never, anyone in combat or captured a single prisoner legitimately had played hell with these poor devils. Big bad all american boy, God. I was frustrated I raised my hand a slap in clear across the area I lowered it. You get all your grab together and get the hell out of here. I screamed at him, sir. I have a job I glanced down at the four, Dead men and over the woman's body, not anymore, you dont lieutenant, he was dead get me with what seemed to be disbelief. I move near to him as possible. Without touching now git Your people out of here out of here, I said quietly and calmly, your friend
to the rest of this, like the charges will take care back at base. So he witnesses this this this atrocity and gets back to base Runs it up. The chain of command tells the frankly Franklin. Frankly, Franklin He tells Franklin what happens frankly finally asked what had happened. I told them every last detail right down to the blood leaping from the girls throat Herbert you're, a guy, damn liar. He said a short wasn't lying. There are other witnesses, sir. Then your example, and he said to the American: did the lieutenant take part? Yes, sir, he was in charge. He had assumed responsibility from sergeant warden but did you see him do any killing? No sir, I didn't then you're a goddamn wire.
there were. No, U S. Personnel involved, he said God, dammit Herbert Euro coming in with these wild asked exaggerated stories trying to make trouble what the hell is it with you, your carried away, maybe you're getting too old. A day or two so so they started went through in this it what's really interesting about this book as they have like me. The actual documents from this guy warden I sergeant first class warden during the period of fourteen February. That's Valentine's day, nineteen sixty nine was platoon sergeant. First, he explains what he saw happen and you can get this book and read those documents.
Then this happens a day or two after the Saint Valentine's day massacre, which we just read about a black trooper named white, refuse to go into the field. offered his refusal loud and clear out in the battalion, three, where he could be heard by one and all you're going out. Why Just like everybody else, I told em like hell. you son of a bitch, I ain't fighting for no white he's right. Why you're going to fight for your kind, three or four your dollars or for anything out you can think of, but by God, you're going like hell, I am he said. Taking his glasses and slamming them against the ground. They were unbroken he step never ground them and a tiny pieces? Now you bastard, he said I ain't goin I can't see I shrugged and laughed at him, so I ll have you put on a listening post, guys bad eyes, always do better. At night you, dumb son, habitually laughed, you don't understand, you sent me out there and all deserve. No, you won't why, because out their baby ain't back here,
you leave the guys out there and you're on your own. I kept a model just but listen I'll. Tell you what I'll do You go a wall out there and make it back here and I'll, give you a bronze star, and even if you don't I'll, see to it that you get a purple heart out there when you're on your own. Your anybody's and everybody's meat the vizier envy. I don't get you the locals. Will you are money, all bounty hunters. I'll cut out as soon as I get back, then no, you won't because you eat. Straighten out here you your straight now out there or when the com. returns you'll be transferred to a unit that replaces them he reached. Was sure, pocket and pulled out another pair of glasses. He was arguing away you swaggering ass. He walked away toward the helicopter, big guy, big bad guy. You'll get yours baby. The best I could do is hope that the best I could hope for
would be that he would do a good job. It was his only chance if he didn't cut it. He was going back out with the next unit. Just as I had promised was the only way Lord, the right response and do everything you can to get it most time. It worked with white, it didn't so just a kind of debris fat when we heard earlier about his policies. He doesn't want to punish people, for acting badly. So if this guy with all Battalion Commander ACT in this way. He get ok here you know you're in trouble. You need your ego, stay in the barracks and you gotta, you know you see, I M J and whatever, but he's not gonna go fight, which is what we actually wanted to his deal is Are you gonna go fight, but if you don't do a good job when this When this platoon gets back from this mission, you're going out with an experts here until you do a frequent good job,
he performed pearl poorly in the field, just as he vowed he would, and I had him held at the gate. His unit came back. it asked Childers, which is his senior Anzio, to get the very best trooper. He could find to guard white until the replacement unit he was going to join came out. someone who wouldn't scare- and he came up with see shelling, don't take any crap from him. I told snowing Watch out. The unit coming out will pick him up. That was it except that snowing drilled him through the head and killed them right outside the gate. White had some. Words and snowing had paid. No attention white had made a threat and then gone for his rifle, He got it to his shoulder before snowing squeeze the trigger and the MP at the Kate, had seen and heard it all. Thank God it was that cut and dried snowing had done his job
not in the criminal investigation division people, they question ever One took statements, and that was it accept that In the day I had snowing into the office a crowd of why friends gathered outside chanting. We, watch snowing. We snowing. He killed a brother, he killed a brother, we snowing. We want snowing. Friggin nasty and this horrible, so again just to make sure everyone tracking he puts in I comes back, he hadn't white comes back, hadn't done a good job. so he's got him standing by for the next platoon. That's gonna go out well standing by Herbert puts a guy. Guard him? This guy named snowing shouting out there guarding him white,
It's a move. Snowing kills him Play there's a witness which is the MP who had seen and heard it all so it now there in the Office of Herbert and there's a crowd out front of whites. Friends saying we wants to know if we want to know he killed her brother, he killed her brother and here's. What Herbert does Arie over and picked up. My I'm sixteen look snowing. You are now a speck for so he promoted and says not because you killed a man, but because you didn't failed to do it when it was your job now about that out, there. That's up to you I'll, tell you what I'll do I'll walk?
therein and right now I pick out the biggest mouth out there and walk up and explained the facts. Tell them me tell them that you just made corporal and if they dont clear out you. Take it into your mind to try for sergeant. I just around into the m16 chamber, all were you from up here and if any one so much as raises a weapon, I'll drop him. That's the least. I can do I shrugged he stepped through the door,
And walked over the group, I could not hear what he said, but they dispersed, and I never heard whites name again, which is sad to that. A man could die and snap just fade out of people's minds and disappear. Gnarly warrants our about leadership challenges. That's like in say right! That's insane! Good I mean: does this coast are still happen like last year, the sea so almost like wild West dish earlier that. That's that section right there, Like that's that's insane. The whole thing is freakin crazy.
it is crazy. I mean like to so many elements to you know where it's like guide you, You have a friend straight up just killed by, and it's like guitar, is one of those deal What kind of gotta take sides a little bit or whatever aid, if you're, if you're in that mix or whatever? So your guy, you friend your brother, gets killed by another guy so thick. we have seen vengeance. This is obviously Adeline. Obviously not part of this. You know we're all the same team where you to kill this girl, no matter what happened you didn't, have to kill him, it's easy to be like you didn't have to kill him so yeah. Of course only one vengeance on justice. They want, like all the stuff, whatever hand and they kind of have a point in it in a way for sure, but I don't know the whole thing they kind of have a point. Well, you're. Also, let's face it There is a huge assumption that the loan M p is just of the big witness right this wrong. I mean what, if what? If
links runs with the empty hey. I got this issue with this guy, or hey. We just had beef. When I saw this guy you got mean. Is that as I would happen, he shouldered his weapon right. One day there's one thing? It's it's such a freak nightmare and they ok them, it gets worse. So we were his ease. K is what you should do is what I want is crazy, we're gonna, let him know, and the thing is that's not gonna, I mean, of course it worked right, but we need to know what he said. We don't do in the moment before he went out from this work and work for these guys, like when they want to kill me already already killed their guns, were at war arena with as more within the work going on here's what Here's the only thing that makes me think well how it turned out. You think well, I've. I wonder if his friends were kind of like look. We know why and why was kind of light,
Maybe he you know, maybe they knew what type of person he was at home, who had that he was close, the ragged edge or whatever I don't even know what to say about this, like it's just a frequent nightmare. This whole book is freaking. Crazy like when you will look at where we just read, you got this prick in Seoul you're killing another soldier you got the woman, give her throat slashed. As for other people executed, its madness is madness. Under what circumstances do, Slater girls through because obviously the girls- not military? Nothing like this in the new, oh she's of easy sympathiser that you don't probably what their claim was here yeah. I guess
I will give you know circumcision looking well. I should say that this dinner, you could be obviously be in some kind of a hand to hand combat scenario where you ve gotta enemy fighter that happens to be female, could happen. With her baby. Ok, I mean there's gas in this scenario. It makes no sense whatsoever in this scenario Herbert saying that it's a friggin war crime. That's what you say! That's what we're too like Herbert is. You know like on the visa, when I say, or music straight last, guy right he's a straight laced guy, that's when he sees stuff like that, its unacceptable to an end. That's! What's about the debate, though I white, getting killed, he's not the Herbert's, not the Cairum Herbert, remember green war. They go hey burned down this villages like I'm, not gonna, do it, they they bring.
Up and that's kind of why focused on some of that stuff enough when we did the last podcast He had had this. He mentioned that they had the first black replacement shown up and he was like waiting. We don't that what the truth in care, if you did a good job you were, good. He talked about the fact that he was raised by that doctor. That was a All these people in the world there, people, like you, they're out there, hunt trying to feed their families, so he's seems like he's this kind of great waste for lack of a better word good person, man, I'd like to sit down this dude he's alive anymore button.
You haven't seen the movie platoon put, you should watch it. That shows a lot of chaos, mayhem, but all these things that you re all the books you read about Vietnam and all the movies it she about. Vietnam is all wrapped up in this. In these scenarios that are just freakin insane, I mean what are your soldiers It was one of your other soldiers. After you say, hey you, but you gotta go out, that's like knots and then you thinkin well, look then you think it is worth it this guy, why I could just at our fine you're right fire you go see I'll put you on Kay p duty, no potatoes! You don't owe me
what happens if its aid than other people like a lot, don't go out either so now, what do we do in the kind of could be viewed as a german? That's like that's how it needs to be almost hear it could be. This is why it's you gotta, be very careful about painting yourself into a corner right here, be very careful about paying yourself into a corner in life, dispersed easily from leadership position. You paint yourself into a corner. Your beer painted in the corner does no moving, there's no moving. So for me, when I look at this, ok, I gotta guided doesn't want to go up. What can I get from him? What can I do with it How can I talk to him and get we don't know any of the history? The guy wouldn't know how bad of a soldier he was when his behavior was Obviously call these colonies commander, like a son of a bitch and all this stuff, so he's not you can tell, is not down from the cause.
Right, so why is how do we build a relationship with that guy and there's some guys that are totally overboard rather like you're, not gonna, get him back. Was he there and if he's there, why you actually haven't about patrol. but if everything to use kind of black and white you're sort of yours hey. This is what everyone is, what you're gonna do and you have no, you pain yourself in a corner and you have no way out of it Going back to the book. I should never have had any problems in Vietnam because it was named virtue or war, infantry and helicopters. With a dick, quality of commanders. The helicopters could have played a very important role in command and control. The unfortunate fact is that the commanders kept there but glued in the seats in the birds. I dont think I can.
Represents the weaknesses inheritance from one thousand five hundred feet. War was simply a lot of little guys in green running here and there shooting up the landscape. The bird man he's talking about the commissioner's password but the bird men may have been commanders in the technical sense of the word, but they weren't leaders and the glance knew it down there was there world. It was a ground war and infantry exercise, and as infantry we could a wanted me and for man we were better and we could have. on it with less than half the people we had there. All we had to do is get rid the wasted headquarters, chaff get rid of it taxes in the stake houses in the clubs and the massage parlours and the pools and the pizza houses and commissaries and get down to fighting in infantry war. We had the training and we had the men who could have done the job
The problem was not only a lack of command leadership, but a lack of distinct mission we didn't have one before I got there. We didn't have one while I was there and we never had one after I left, but an Army requires a mission it desperately need some direction towards a specific goal. It was all child some grass for us with machine technicians. Like the West Point engineers running the show, I don't think we have to be mission to kill we need training, to destroy well built for that comes easy steps no rules and leave a vacuum and want what you end up with our me lie and cooler
absence of policy and mission was a policy in itself. Needn't need know what the mission is by the way or freakin? Absolutely, I guess we'll in your normal life. Yes, absolutely in your business in your job, yes, new note, the freak admission is fast. But as we continue to score, every night Franklin began to increase it: Visits to the field. Finally, he made it a point to be on hand personally to personally count the bodies, and I found myself as his constant, court guiding him from one dead man to the next standing by while he snapped photos. It was another syndrome, the guys that didn't kill. Anybody were the ones who broke their asses to get a picture. What the hell
probably have been the same way with indian scalps. If we had cameras back then so What is out there a kind of common up, and he goes through a bunch of this stuff. There was a guy named Grimshaw Workin here. His name later One of the company commanders Grimshaw, set a dead VC is a dead vc in a dead end. Va is a dead end. V8 a dead vci is a dead vci except, of course, when killed by the second battalion only Data Franklin touches the touches his toe to them. And they better be wearing a uniform and have a weapon. What the hell was. I tried to do Franklin asked. I had to be on ass to move to write rifle companies that does some dark why they might have opened up on each other if either of them come disoriented and besides he said it was one big waste. We could have taken them all in a court. search. It saved all
inconvenience, so While all this stuff is happening, the the De Brigade is keeping battalion score they're keeping scores to figure out who the best battalion, whose battalion who's the best battalion. They keep track of a bunch of different things, enemy killed in a kick killed in action Account enemy prisoners of war, and we can't Acts enemy weapons captured a number a wall so whose apps and how many people you got absent without led how many article Fifteen's, if you dont meaning how many times have you punish somebody how many Lee Quincy's. If you had how many malaria cases do you have how many reimbursements do you have how many special courts do you have. and then they take all these different numbers and they put him into like one final number here's, how the numbers shake out, basically you got that second battalion, so Herbert's battalion is weak in all categories is not.
In close for Gimme killed in action. It's the other battalions are Keen for twenty nine and thirty six seconds. China's eighty four so more than twice as much as the next battalion for enemy capture Listen to these numbers. Eight, zero, zero and three. How is the second time have ninety your enemy contacts, its thirty four twenty, in thirty, seven sixty and second retainers sixty six four enemy, bins captured its fifteen eleven Three and seventeen second battalion has FISH seven. So there's not it's almost like it's not in clause for absent wisdom, about leave. So this is this. you want the low number here, it's fourteen twenty, four, twenty six and twenty four and one: but I have eight. They only have eight people that have gone AWOL for article Fifteen's,
the numbers are thirty, nine, fifty six, fifty seven and fifty two one is second. But I'd have twenty four for delinquency, report seventy nine eleven ten second time has five malaria they're all the same. Reimbursements, listen to this reimbursements. The numbers are: zero, zero, forty, zero! No, if we can stay in what is second battalion, have fifty three. So the total school or they have whenever they have this with making all into one number second battalion Particular month is February, one thousand nine hundred and sixty nine four hundred and twenty points there in the lead, and then the other ones are one hundred and eighty one, four thousand five hundred and seventy at twenty combat ineffective.
and there and by the way, this is so they're getting graded by Franklin and and Barnes graded and your car russian second Battalion under Herbert is absolutely crushing everything, but the hits just keep on coming for some military intelligence, interrogation rooms that are on their little base and Herbert pays is it. I walked in one of the rooms and back and knocked lightly on the door, one night whose their Herbert just a moment, Sir someone answered, and secondly, the door swung inward sergeant, Carmody greeted me come in sir, squeeze passed him and closed the door behind me inside in addition a Carmody were Captain Bowers vietnamese man and one of the honeys, the wild cats. Captured in the morning. She was to my left in a chair against the wall just off the corner
Carmody was standing to a right. My left and the vietnamese man was sitting just off my right foot facing the grown, the chair, their knees only. Four inches apart. Captain bowers, Just behind the vietnamese man sitting in a chair and leaning over the VS shoulder the girl was moaning and trembling find anything out. I asked turning to Carmody he claims he was out picking water bout bug, sir. he said and laughed what patrol where's. It headed what about the one about the future where was it headed Carmen. he turned to her and ass, something vietnamese. She shook her head. He her with the back of his hand raking it down. Her face you're a fucking liar. He shouted blood began. the rush into the long abrasion on her cheek. It began to happen. In a rush I turned Bowers thinking he would say something Carmody, that's something it vietnamese bowers, nodded the vietnamese man in front of him his shoulder with his hand, the girl screamed, I glanced down
And saw for the first time that there were wires from her body to attend phone between the its knees, he was cranking, it. I grabbed the wires and yanked damn near lifting the visa up with them or the wire separated from the phone it clattered to the floor crazy bowers, I yelled. So do so. You understand these these telephone machines that you can power than by cranking them. This old school likes telephone, and so that's where he had to have these their basically electroshock Electra electrocuted, or are you easy bowers. I yelled, sir, I what the hell kind of crap you point here, sir. I go get open. Ok, Sir made Ok, it's as I don't give a damn what he says you go get him. I said Comedy and not this off until this thing is settled, bowers left in carbonate of yet- and I the amount of the hall leaving the girl alone in the little room in a moment, Bowers return major- ok, isn't here, he said where the hell is. He he's gone down a brigade, sir. behind him through the air
Norway. I saw the major getting into a jeep. I left you walk down the Franklin's office. We are not I think we owe came, was still deep in conversation with the deputy commander. Franklin signals to hold up until he was finished when I came left free and called me in and immediately began screaming. We will write backward thought you, son of a bitch, you rented you dirty son of a bitch. How many times have I want you to stay the hell away from am I we're? Have your cut off. It seemed like the time for action. for time. Sir. I said did you understand? Yes, sir, but I understand torture to I don't give a shit about that I, Sir God dammit Herbert, Don't you saw me, I gave you direct order. Did you understand it? Yes, sir, but they ordering a Vietnamese. Did you personally see them torturing this girl, at least he knew it. a girl? Yes, sir? They? U S, soldiers, no, sir, this Vietnamese, goddammit Herbert. How many times must I explained the rules of land warfare to you over here. What the Vietnamese do not have our damn business but you're the guy was cut
this phone generate a while. Bowers was who is can't you breaking the generator. This interpreter, I guess And was a Vietnamese, yes, sir, but and was bowers cranking no sir, but then god dammit, that's the end of it. Ok said: that's all there is to know He lifted his hand shook his finger. One goddamn interference Herbert and you're all washed up, and am I understand no, sir, I do Carmody was, did you see Carmody crank the phone? No sir, did you see any? U S crank that phone? No sir, then watch your bitch. It was the first time had had really compose a sentence for one thing old, and it was a violation of U S. Army directives as well. Geneva cords and the rules of one warfare and for there I finished it just is an army. Oh you, son of a bitch, you said you're, so goddamn righteous. You never do anything like that right. No sir. I have it here The girl in you never have harbor. It is correct. That is correct, sir,
but you saw car Carmody slap. Ah, yes, sir, I did and and so all at once you the judge, the jury and the executioners at correct harbour. No sir, I know sir, I know sir. I know, sir, I tell you what you are pervert you're disloyal and your maybe getting kind of old you just can't make it any more what the hell's the matter with you look. Said with relative benevolence in his voice. Let me explain: these: are the enemy even must be able to understand that right, these the guys who killed your bodies, who She killed, Sir God dammit. I'm talk the enemy in general. He said raising his hand. Let me put it this way: their v c. cited. There is no sense in carrying out this force any further and we, both to be soldiers- and we are supposed to be soldiers, Sir american soldiers. I want to make a charge I'd like to large charge. My ass, you ve already made a charge, and now it's an investigation and I'll take care of that. Not you. You just be able
back your mouth with sworn verified testimony sure I said Sir anytime. Yeah. So again, it's very strange are not very strange, but you can see this guy he's seems be trying to do the right thing, a man here. Making some enemies it? I guess per be part of his me trying my best to look at it from all or more than just Herbert's perspective kindly gotta admit when you think about it. Were you know one like Kate, when you're in a complex situation in you have like a goal. And then you have all these rules. sometimes those rules do get kind of looked over somewhere. On a smaller level right and some?
They can be more efficient. Meanwhile, Yet this guy who's kind of by the book in most people look people on purely of I almost one everybody's not can be by the book hundred percent of the time in one way or another, and you get a group of people and their they're they're carrying out a gull whatever and and its working and its working out and there ok. Well, that's enough! option, because it doesn't doesnt present, let's face it. If we just go on how well the battalions are doing the times when the best and he's kind of flying there, the righteous path, yeah yeah, fully in India. This is this pretty story Asylum Saint in general, and then you it will be: a new guy or just somebody there whose always like how should it not an micromanaging but like NIT picking on certain things
kind of gems up your whole approach to what you're doing sure it could be better or not or whatever, but it I'm kind of a nuisance was well ok, I mean I see what you say but Let us remember that this guy is witnessing murders, tortures, sexual, switch? I didn't really cover rapes, which I didn't really cover, but there in here he's he's seeing all kinds of horrible This isn't somebody this isn't all all these people kind of banning the rules to get the job done. This ain't that this ain't that yeah fully in that's what I'm so that's what I mean just way said like people bending the rules to get the job done. What kind of a thing right we we understand that Yes? And he understands it right. Remember the guy that got told, hey, bring back the mermaids on your patrol and and the guy as this is stupid and Herbert says: well, it's an ordered. He says fuck them. Member that part
downward bending the rules. If the rules don't make sense right, yeah fully in and yes, that is true and at a good bird's eye view of the whole deal for sure, but the guy this guy, that he stuck in a river Franklin from his. perspective. He might be looking at it as hey we're, bending the rules to get the job done. He might be genuinely a feeling that we might be. He might be now what you have to fall back on. Is you have to? U have to fall back on. This is a tough one. You have to fall back not only on what is that thing to do, but you also have to bounce off of what is legal. Ok oh for the young leaders out there. Especially military leaders- but this applies to anything. This applies to business because look, there's thing: there's things you do in business where oh, there is the right thing to do then, there is the wrong thing to do. And there's the legal thing to do, is true.
and the others the criminal thing to do so when you're doing something- hey, listen, I can splain. This worry, you know that the CNN test. Have you ever heard of this before if I can go on CNN and say hey, this is why I made this decision and you don't feel shame because of what you did. That's definitely part of the test. The you gotta, remember is what is legal, because if you let and this is something you can tell you. You're you're employees or your troops. You gotta member about what legal, because someone should steer, could look if, if, if you're, Let's say you're you're not you're in a inopportune you're out on a target, and you find somebody- that's killed, Americans right, they freaking killed. They have the bodies, Catch up with the bodies and with a prick in bloody knife.
There is almost no one that would say. Ok, I don't like killing those bad guys right. There's a guy with a bloody knife. You You feel killing Americans, say: hey! Do the right thing, a lot of people like our note, the right thing to do is we kill back. I were executed, you have you have to amber that that is not legal. You are not allowed to do that, so you have to get your people to understand that. regardless of how you feel it, not just to see an end task. As that kind of past disunity, hey, I showed up this guide killed a bunch of Americans and we frequent we I shot up and you can The way it is applied feel no shame because of it. You Ass, the CNN test, guess what you could so go to you: can somebody jail it'll regally wrong? So as a leader, what you have to do is you have to sort of merge all these ideas into? Why, final fought and you have to take the fact that hey what this
not legal. To do this. This is not legal. To do this now. There's other so with weak come up scenarios where doing the legal thing still isn't the right thing and is our it's actually wrong? It's wrong to do. And sometimes you may have to break that rule, but what we're talking here is they're doing things that are not legal, so This is how you feel you do, something that is not legal. on a very being a very big way. These aren't minor charges. These are war crimes in areas which right this is. Like hey, we bend the rules. We we left some freakin emerge. I doubt the field. Which is pretty easy to argue right. Hey, listen my guys wordy tired, we're precarious things. It was gonna bogged down. We had a bit better jets, get an ambush, there's gonna be a problem. I left them. Ok got it. Does not war crimes fully, so there's a dead, there's a difference. Yeah yeah there does the there comes a point where it gets like Egypt,
defend certain things urine and multi, especially when you talk about, like you, gotta That's not events that you get offender, because if I roll up- and I find an ice fighter that killed three people. You can defend that all day you can finally I'd. I saw I shot him. He killed three Besides I'm doing it, Do you can defend that all day long? But it's not legal. So now, you got a deal with the ramifications, whatever those are using. The movie cobra. No come on services salon cholera! I have not seen Tang all watchful to new what scope he's not deal. There's a file is a word in the beginning where this cycle guy takes over the supermarket and whatever right and cold kind of one of these guys you feed he uses excessive force, can like demolition men same actor by the services either way, so Cobra kit ends up killing this guy right and then of the press comes not CNN, but the press come
in their turn to interview gotten cobra and their light he's a hey. Did you have to kill him Did you have to die? What did he do? You know. The euro has a right to live and all the stuff or whatever and is a guy used. You didn't Successive fourth announce he's like a use. Everything at a decade, you know, like ie people per day, are protected. you are entitled to protection by the law or whatever, and he says so- grabs the reporter and on wraps or a uncovers like one of the bodies Ring LISA, you tell that to his family. Her pass. The CNN test is one thing. I think it is legal to the technically. It depends on your situation. It was like borderline, so I want to go into the movie. What happened? You have to pay a cobra off the hook, you're, not only tat, but nonetheless,
the CNN tests assume say now that the sole so the CNN test is but it's not a it's, not a unilateral test. Just because they Parisienne tackles it's. Ok, that's what I'm trying to explain to young leaders. It's not just the CNN test, its the CNN test, plus its the legal test is what you're doing legal or is it illegal? And if it's illegal, if there are going to be repercussions, even if you pass the CNN test. So as a leader you to pay attention those things and what you have to do is keep your troops out of trouble. That's incumbent up you to keep your troops out of trouble because they they might be reacting emotionally, and you're, the one that supports a rain them in and make sure that marketing not not doing things that are illegal.
and I'm not say those things are deserve. You know you find something just killed. Three Americans at that this member deserves to die. We get it not legal. Yet not allowed So where do these guys and my regional point was like Franklin: b to him. It was he was courting pull legacy, maybe a few rules worried turning a blind eye to just small minority and the means kind of justified RO the ends scenario, and yet you agree. I think that's true. we're going to remember where slitting girls Throat with a fully we have two leaders, have to lead their troops to make sure that they are not just doing the right thing. That they're not just passing the CNN test, but they are also doing what's legal, otherwise, there's gonna be repercussions not just the best is the way it is the reality,
back to the book. When I remember the folly of it all now, I rationalize a bit and tell myself that there wasn't enough time to be fully sensitive to the finality of death for it and to say that it had not been a very important day, because the second battalion had but to envy kills now seems ludicrous. It was a damn important day for those two dead men Even just one man died or got his fingers blown offers leg, shatters, hearing, impaired ores, bloodied and blinded? It was one hell of a costly battle, especially if you happen to be the guy who got it that day, Something generals and presidents can never understand. Only mothers, fathers, brothers, sons, daughters and wives. Maybe if I were a general or president who never went to war with his men or who never wrist paying the same price. Maybe I'd want to convert
The whole damn show into a statistical table to be read solemnly by some broadcaster. Every Thursday night generals presidents are fine for explaining to all of us those things that we ought to be willing to die for but when the war is over, all that's left are statistic And the generals in the president's are always among the living. If anything has happened to our, three as a result of the Vietnam WAR. It is that our national infection with sickness of the numbers game. We reduce the blood and the suffering and the death and destruction to mere ciphers, and in doing so we reduce star, souls? Numbers don't die? People do columns of figures,
dont disintegrate in the explosion of a bomb human beings, do statistics don't bleed. and if you make your war a war of numbers, you will have no trouble sleeping most generals and president's slept well. So this stuff is continuing on and in another mind, boggling plot twist on April. Second, nineteen sixty nine Barnes gave me a letter of commendation from oconnors, who had replaced appears as the commander of the first field force victor. He also handed me a letter from peers which had come all the way from the states. Peers was quite complementary and barns. Added that this
Second battalion was the best in the brigade and that I was the best battalion commander. He had personally ever known. So that's Franklin's, boss,. Then he handed me his own letter of commendation, the scorched for the brigade, which again listed the second battalion as the top battalion and the official Idee report, which listed the second battalion as the tops in the brigade He also assured me that I very soon begin reaping the awards rewards for my efforts as he called them. He said that we're service cross was being prepared in the jail already had a verbal assurance, it would be approved. He get some love. I went back to the time and sat down with warm Iceland Bourbon, my god. What was happening two months of nothing but crap, and now all this
one day. Maybe things really we're gonna be different? Maybe the brigade was going to shape up with less than two and a half. to go sweetness and light were in the air and there were signs that everything was going to be ok but something else gnawed at me. I had reported eight atrocities or war crimes. Whatever the hell they want to call them the abuse of the detainees at on Kay the three torture incidents, the murders, the Lou Being the alleged murder of a young lieutenant anyway the execution of the detainees in the capacity of the hero lieutenant. If I could get those things cleared up, I'd really be up to date and I knew I'd Get my statements down soon or have to get them in writing. From back in the states,
time out of a command and General Staff College Leavenworth, and I didn't expect to have that kind of time. So they are the sole comes really clear right now I went down on the morning of April third, so the next to talk to Franklin about them. Sir. I jokingly said when I entered your best battalion commander of yesterday would like to have a talk with you today. Ok sure Herbert com and he said, have a seat. I sat down worry indicated. It was me. It was the only chair in the room. What's on your mind, the eight Legation, Sir the atrocities I reported. I want atrocities, he interrupted. What the hell are you talking, atrocities eight sir and I take them off, by one counting them on my fingers ass. I went sir I'm going home in less than two weeks and more The other witnesses have already gone I'd like to get my party,
And up now, while I still have time and things are going kind of slow, goddammit Tony said, the investigations are ongoing. What more can I do? The next morning, when I reported Barnes, was behind his desk and Franklin was in the chair to his right. it was quick, Colonel Herbert the General said. I'm going to replace you as the commander of second battalion. I felt the blood drain from my head. Replace sir. You mean relieve not relieve tone replace I'm giving you a maximum efficiency report and sending you decide gone. They hit me like a ton of rocks It is. Is it over the allegations? I've made Sir Franklin Leap to his feet: scream that's right! you son of a bitch you and your Damn lies about Beecham crouching, all the rest that poor lieutenant and the other. One of your damn lies in exaggerations, so clear
they were buttering. Em up, hey you ve done great Europe S battalion, we'll get you give you up a maximum since the report like you're the best guy about you, just freakin, keep your mouth shut, equipage allegations and then when he brings him up again, they realized. Yes, mystic to a gun. I felt cold and empty than a wave of relief swept over me and CAM said, and I stared at Franklin and though he were an insect and I tried to speak is deliberately and as coolly as I could. I'm not talking to you, Sir I'm trying to speak to my commander, General Barnes and stop Franklin's renting, and he gave me the chance to turn. Barnes, Sir, the very least you owe me as a complete investigation to see. Who really is telling the lies and exaggerating the general his head down over his desk, tripling on a piece of no paper. Franklin is already investigate. All your charge is not satisfied. He said reaching out handing me the note you'll be out
on the landing zone in one hour, there are two planes leaving for Saigon. Today, you beyond one of them. Your records will be ready you and on K, when even Saigon were on K. When you get there, you report to come Lou Ashley inside out. It's on the nose sir, I said I have a battalion outside for over a million dollars worth of materials and equipment. I just can't clear outline our Franklin bore How can one hour Herbert one hour you'll be picked up under arrest and taken out by the Provost Marshall one hour and said again I saluted dont. Do me a favor with the efficiency report. I ain't see you all again. even though he said where there were no you out of here with a good either Relation he say: don't even this dear, do not play
as I walked back to the Italian, I told myself it was important to remain Hong Kong collected? I knew I had them both just as well I didn't blow it? They had gone, far beyond their authority in removing me without any grounds for relief. I was convinced by then that it to be something more than any allegations of atrocities hell, everybody knew about them anyways. Somebody else be bringing them up again and soon if they thought by getting rid of me. They were also getting rid of the shame of what had occurred. Then they that they have. got it under the rug. They neither understood me nor the army. At that point, I still faith in the system I walked over to the talk We had mostly officers gathered in the briefing room. He had already told them. Look. I began there's no time to screw around. You know I've been given the boot. That's all I wanted to talk to you all right away. I've only got about fifteen It's more before I have to get out of here, but I wanted it. Some time to. Thank you and get the chance to shake his many of your hands I could before I have to go. There were some
protests and a few remarks about quitting. I stifled backward the army has a system of military justice and rules and rags. So none of you need to go off half cocked and try and take things in your own hands. Nobody quits either just keep thinking about the battalion. That's what's important, not me! If Europe, if you quit your letting down, not only me but every last one of those grunts out here, they have to stay. They can't quit can, but many of them need you and the guy, replace me is going to need you. It's not going his fall would happen to me. So stick with a battalion at stick with him and stick with them. I said waving toward the buoys. I started shaking hands They're in the learning zone area, men all along the ground were lined up pulling off smoke. Canisters of every color in the rainbow There may be a hundred men out there and a hundred smokes. It was there honours smoke when the troops were coming back after a kill they both the field with a smoke on each skid.
And when one of their own left, they lead one to four. depending on how well he was like light, plus reputation as a fighter, and I looking down on. At least two hundred of them, knowing all the time that nobody was that good, but choked up with appreciation. Nevertheless, I will than they waved back the pilot bank, the ship again sat against the wall rigging and wiped my eyes. we landed inside gone a bit before nine o clock tat evening, and although I should have been feeling like a bastard on fathers day, I didn't know, I should have been feeling like a bastard on fathers day. I didn't. I was leaved in more ways than one. I suppose I reason if Barnes and Franklin at hated me that much I was better found. The outfit had the marbles in my pocket. They had nothing to fall back. Can't, but their own lies and falsifications. I knew
I been lucky, I could have had acts. No kills of women and children or other non combatants, and they would have had me had the marbles in their pockets. I could have ranks second or third on the idea, inspection. I could have had a high court, martial rate or accident rate or large number of article fifteen or delinquency reports from the military police or any one of a number of other things that could have been used against me, but I've been lucky. Frankly, I mused I had let Franklin, I mused had let his personal dislike for me. Get the best of him. It had forced him, into a premature confrontation that I was bound to win. I was bound to win well, it was not that clear cut. It was not that clear cut it off
and the book goes on, and it goes into a lot of detail and there are all kinds of further accusations and honor accusations and they end up making sworn statements against Herbert, including him, reading the killing of civilians. So they start making accusations against him and this is an again. These documents are in there Look that's one of the things that makes this book so good. Is it got all this actual documentation near they? They reckoning Revoking his orders, they command, removing his opportunity to to lead be in command again.
General Ross who's. The overall decision maker on the case agrees with the accusatory statements, kills. Carnal Herbert's career the idea that he was bound to win now. Actually, doesn't work out that way: Colonel Herbert It's that he fights this spent bunch of his own money then he goes on the offence. because he wanted investigations before now. He goes on the office charges Bruce charges up against Colonel Franklin. Fourteen separates suffocation, including failure to report, murders and church. torture. He does the same thing to General Barnes, fail of failure to report war crimes are multiple occasions, so he's goin on the offence, It gives national publicity it's in the news, the lead investigator for the army.
this guy by the name of major coral handsomely according to the book, I hate to say that I'm just because I dont know what I do know what the truth is. According to the book this guy, major Carl. Hence we had told Herbert like look. We believe you you're right. We can win, this thing, and then he killed himself killed himself with a shotgun you can you can look that one up its inner New York Times, press briefing major Carl Henley suicide ends up all the charges are eventually dropped against both Barnes and frankly,. Colonel Franklin, eventually relieved from his command for throwing a vietnamese body out over out of a helicopter in Vienna. Then again, this guy was the most decorated from what I can
finding research, most decorated officer from his West Point Class, one thousand nine hundred and fifty one thousand nine hundred and ninety one by the way, Colonel Franklin, convicted and spent five years in prison for a securities scheme, scam swindled about a hundred people out of millions of dollars. So there's like a question about characters, cure characteristics, so all the charges so Maginnis all the charges against Barnes and Franklin get dropped, but Herbert is not charge with making a single false statement. So all these things did he had said he never gets arch, firstly, making a false statement, but the charge skit dropped. He goes kind of power
What does a bunch of interviews eventually he's retired? He retired, do you know he's done with the army. He gets eventually. He gets interviewed on sixty minutes by MIKE walls, and this is freakin crazy, so they have, and I've tried to find somebody will find it, but I read it they have Herbert getting interviewed by MIKE Wallace. He kind of tells his story and then the other room they bring, major Grimshaw, who is part of the unit who comes out, says yeah. Look I I worked for Herbert. I know Robert, I respect Herbert, but what he said is untrue. so now, who is supposed to believe so Burke, sues Michael
Less than sixty minutes for libel, it's a thirteen year court case the thirteen year court case eventually gets all the way the Supreme Court and Herbert loses the case Herbert eventually made he became a m, Cynical psychologists and also pre psychologist dies of cancer June. Seventh, two thousand forty just the whole thing is a travesty and I guess the best thing we can do is
what can we learn from? What can we learn from it? I would say the obvious lesson here is put your ego. Side and build relationships with people. Now you might say: well, these people are doing wrong. Ok, so what what good? Do when you just built foreman antagonist Croatia, could you have more influence over them or less influence over them? You have less so If you can build a relationship with people that listen, this is a kin. This is so freaking hard is what makes me to ship part of these. If there's people are doing things that are immoral, illegal or unethical? Okay, what are you going to do? Do it Herbert did stand up to and guess what he gets fired now. He has no influence over the situation, because, if you think, like Avc, we have to stop it. That's my moral obligation to stop this stuff from happening. Was
did Colonel Herbert stop from happening now? said he's gone. He has no more it who took who took over but time some. Yes, man, what a colonel Franklin's! You know, boys that came in and started turn the party line, so friggin disaster just a disaster. You get you get the high ground great. You got the high ground than you and then you look down on people You get an antagonistic relationship with you and there's all that all this stuff is documented. You gotta read the book and I'm sure we can more discussions. Maybe we will, they will bring some, maybe we'll find somebody that was there. That knows more about it.
now, those dear look, there's two sized every story to you. You're, you pointed out, you know, was: what are they just trying to get the job done? Is he was he exaggerating? Some of this too? I don't know, I don't know. My original take was that this guy is like a hack. My original information that I got was this guy was a hack worth type individual from those from from colonel how his
Herbert had worked for his grandfather rights. This is because gray get right. Now that we'd go off. I don't know I don't know. I know that leadership is a frequent challenge. I know that in this book proves it hit this feeling, ECHO Charles, he, the kind of empty feeling sure don't like yeah, Philip, I dont like when I can't really identify the truth. I can like it and that's kind of why did think about that were thinking about the other people's perspective.
and with that kind of you to think, I hurried had lit say that the guys, like all wrong, like because new phase accords the story, kind of sounds like they're, almost like corrupt. Almost whither, I resent pay. Who cares you no kind of thing? it's like, while also what we just have a strain of corrupt military is. Are we saying like in that little has been said about me what he say yeah, so we no uncertain terms in the air. nor which is horrible for us to think that this entire division this entire brigade at a minimum was corrupt. Yet and that's and that's what I'm thinking The reality is like, since these aren't like bad people like most important. Just bad people were just like destined for corruption and whatever it's almost like you, gonna, go to consider how did they get there than? Why is it like that smokers
Just evil people who finally got their position of power and now can just exploit weakness and nothing like that, but you take. Can you put all these factors in place like the fact that hey, if you go to the store during to get promoted, you're going to get more money you're, you got to this and when you get over there. Well, what's the best way to get a good evaluation, you gotta get evaluation, backup doing whatever, doing lay you know, you don't want to stick your head up and be the one that gets draws bunch of attack Can that's what we're do? You use an expression that you use used Expression, that's what we're doing You know, like your sale, that's I thought that's just what we were doing you use them. russian. Sometimes well, that's a normal thing for people to feel look. That's what we're well. Ok, that's what everyone else is doing more. Ok, if we're gonna, let vietnamese kind of run than do whatever they want that's what we're doing glad I'm gonna be the one. That's drawn a bunch of attention myself, it ain't about me. So I'm just gonna score. sit back and let it happen so people, that mode
and you lose vision. Here's the other thing. I can't much carbon Do you have yourself to say like pale? Every and here is wrong. Ever here, that's letting this happen is wrong. You're hiding I feel like wait. A second there's. You know a brigade of five thousand people here. everyone's kind of down with what's happening, and I'm the person. That's not there's somethin wrong here, Maybe it's wrong, maybe there's something wrong with me and you get the momentum and the inertia of you get the inertia of hey, hey we're gonna get a new battalion commander soon, after about this guy, we got he's he's to live here for six months. What what? What are you trying to do? Make money right? We can run these little scams and makes them
honey we we just want to have the time passed so I can move on. I can t be done with my job. Trust me. That's that's a real thing. Even in today's military, like have you ever heard the zero defect, zero defect, model, where its oh yeah, we're gonna, promote someone that has had no mistakes. So, if you're over underpin what if you're in Iraq and afghanistan- and you want to get promoted and there's a mission to go, do and you get to decide whether you go do that mission or not. Do you think you should do it or not? You got it yeah. So if you don't, basically you don't take them much action, you dont, won't make them in my state, rail and you can have the zero defect render it. You have a zero defect record. I went on deployment, I did for missions, they all went well get a bronze star go home. Get a good evaluation and we're gonna go or
over there are many do a hundred missions. Every single one of those missions is a frequent challenged by the way Do it for missions, you can kind of hand pick you do ten. And you do twenty missions you're happy only this one, so bad, not about area we ve got really good. Intel looks good. I gotta go had next. Give this one if you're gonna do a hundred missions you're going? Ok, look this one's a little bit more high risk, but we're gonna get it. It seems like a will make an impact will go executed. There is a tendency towards not a tendency there. possibility that you say you know what I won't have you get her? I don't have any bad. You know having negative is on my evaluation. I just want to get my job done, a move on no one upon the ticket, so you end up do in fourteen missions and you did your job good for you and now you get your ticket punished and you go home and everyone's.
By the way when you get home. Guess was Gertrude, everyone says hey, he he did it. He was a user company commander. He was obtained commander. He didn't idea up he's combat experience better. As he said, So are you kind of on a pedestal, little but even though you really don't know anything. So what I M saying is the system, even more so in Vietnam was all set up where hey get over there, your mouth shot go with the flow fit in with the crew? and that's why hack worth had such a free can issue with it, and so did Herbert makes sense so almost like they should maybe think about. I'm saying this with complete ignorance by the way, but We should change the oil system to beat that you don't like driving your most diving, like the amount of Olympics or whatever I'm driving right, and they have difficult every level and the difficulty level exactly right. So you score for difficulty level and if the day
while the level is lowbrow you're not gonna get a high scoring. Oh yeah yeah, it's true and that's fine again, system is really were there. It's very easy for the system to fall back into a zero defect, mentality, a risk a verse mentality because look I want appointed tomorrow and circumstances could be that there's just not a lot going on, and so we did form it is not because we want aggressive budgets as there were, not many missions to do, and so I'd come back in. Can't look down on me. You can't say: will jock only did forests. I did all the ones that I could. I was aggressive as I could possibly be. We only did for You go on deployment. There's you could do a hundred missions, but you weren't you, for you come back sad dismally. Shaka we're gonna go, and I am of over leader. I wasn't there so Can I go hey. I voted for docketed for pay. These guys are equivalent we're gonna, go move on me. While you are super risk, averse didn't take any chances, really didn't impact battlefield and you
Can I get the same recognition? So it's a very difficult thing to do. It's a very difficult thing and you can see You can see that Vietnam just got so wrapped up in this. This career ism of Hake. Oh, do your time keep your mouth shut, did Kindle go with the flow, and that's that, the one, the missions that we're doin, ok, we're doing economical got it. We got guys can part no seems to notice. I guess we're smoking pot, like it just bad across the board, in a lot of it has to do with what is our mission. What is our mission? Why were what what means we want What means we want If you don't even know what means you want, how you gonna, you know, If you want a football field and you didn't know what how if you do not Cora goal. What would you do what would you do if you wouldn't be able to do anything you want as long as you don't hey here's where you're trying to get to okay got it. Give me a ball moving
down the field are moved a yard down the field. I move an inch down the field you're at least know which direction moon. If you get told they got in that field tells you where the end zone is right. No one tells you. So what are you going to do? So, as a leader, you gotta take that into account. You gotta make your people know what the mission is. No two strategies on you better know why you're going to war and you better make that perfectly clear when you're going check empty feeling. Sorry, don't like it! So what else can we do? This is just a friggin wealth, beacon of empty feelings. I have one two three kinds of empty: to ask of empty discipline.
Some are take this opportunity to tell our people were discipline. Go is on that cause, I'm just I had some too, but I still feel that these are all good well. Ok, I won't sort with discipline. Go about that we'll just talk about Jacko few in general can go look round. The path were learning stuff lesson hard uneasy by the wind, Argosy or open man? well, you know how they say like there is hard less likely the hard lessons are the ones that are learned like the best? Yes, it's true suffers, remembers, yeah saw bone or on the path right, we're looking for lessons were learning firm lessons, learning from lessons from others. That's when those efficiency things there's some great leadership. Lessons in both these books. That's for sure, like some reelect that thing about planning, if you, if you let your team
Come up with a plan, their invested ever metal scenario. Interest in seeing the plants exceed that right. There's gold read those books, look My feeling empty, like I did, let me feel in their whole little bit there. I just did I just filled in my own hole in my heart for yes. But my saying hey, if you let your tea come up with a plan. They have a material interest in making the plan succeed. There you go feel better already eaten. So, yes and nonetheless, one the path then, through that path, luck will know about about. They don't walk the path I saw that mean today. Ok, my head, but when we want when we do walk the path, We may need assistance assistance through what
be mentorship guidance or supplement. Asian supplementing goes Jackal few, so without suffer joints we got stuff for protein. We that's the far brain that suffer immunity. That's it ransack more or less getting stronger. smoke. Yes, that's the protests. Oh yes, I am used to things thinking about something I understand. We think the formula for getting strong. Could you tell? I was like not with you, I'm just making I'm very used to that fact. dynamic usually obeyed attention when well demands and what you mean by casually over to you anyway, formula for getting stronger if you ve sense that, for me it should be a non verbal cue to talk fast and kind, a rap
yeah. I thought that began now. You don't hear why Yanks just wherever gear of Europe under used to have no materially interested movies, which is fine material interests, but its very small. Nonetheless, the method that the material formula for being strong is three things: the correct exercise, the correct rest in recovery and the correct fuel nutrition, slash, fuel flesh, food fuel ever more is part of that last part. The few for getting shot, some say so, you mock will make you strong is on those other. Two things are in places. Well, anyway, I gotta Jackal fuel dot com for all these things score score, some sublimation for this path that we are walking, not just knowing. A good environment shop. You can also get it at why why we get that you get the discipline, go drinks out Walla. If you need some help,
You can go to Wawa and get some, and also all these things would be kind of cool you're going to want to get you into going to want to get them and have them there when you need them, so you want to subscribe, and if you subscribe, you get free shipping and shipping can be expensive, Nor do I think the main benefit aside from the discount for sure is you not having to think about it. Does you drink about other stuff? How that is aid that is a definite benefits, are you're getting paid, basically to do something, that's already good for you. yeah doubled up you're right, you're right, of justice so getting paid in all they say a penny saved? Is a penny earned? That's it right. Now, it's kind of any form of framing thing not to go too deep on framing is now but if you just said you just then you're getting paid to do
in your healthy you're. In a way right. You are so review scribe you're, getting paid to do something, that's good for you, which is awesome, check that out, Jacques of your backup. Also, we gotta budgets or stuff? If you are, indeed, you did which you should be by all accounts. you'd be in it. You get your goody origin, USA, dot com. You can get your duty stuff, but if you're, let's say you haven't gotten into Jujitsu yet you're going to, but you still need calling for your body, you need genes, you need boots, you need tee shirts, you need bodies, sure you need hats. Well, there's a lot of benefits to her. Whither, you don't wear had ever privilege any engaging get all that stuff American made main America made in America, yeah, origin, USA, DOT, com check it out also
Jacko has stores well for more those shirts and hats hoodies one arts by the shortest route somewhere in oil deaf course, shorts, yeah I'll, die hard core Redondo. Sure! That's what I'm learn today in honour of combining hack worth check the up, that's good on yell, a lot of stuff on there. I say it's too present while we're on the path. That's what you said. That is true every time, but. a little bit more to it. You gotta find out for herself, although we have a subscription situation on there too, for a little different types of designs. Little bit more creative windless did John Balzac, who just happens to be happens. To beat this offer reason, but he is the illustrator for the way. The worry kid series and by driving,
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turn it in Bonn gas? We ve been doing some culinary on their from people that are on Jacko underground. If you wanna subscribed to that, but a jackal underground, dot com, it costs eight dollars and eighty cents a month. If you can't afford that Turkey, we don't want to exclude you cause, you haven't, got a financial rough spot. If you want to hear what we're talking about you know, do you can email assistance at Jackal, underground, dot com You also review digital video version. This podcast also have excerpts on their seeking being. Satan in the event of you missing for certain concept of whatever you know. We try to post those regularly, so so yeah we can see you can check those out for verified too by the way honey proud of that did you ever get that say were useless to get something
Unlike a plaque or something I m play but into something gets when you get to a certain amount of subscribers, I did not get it now. How many subscribers do you have to have for their different plaque I think you get one item. I could be wrong like after ten them or hundred thousand and then after a million, if I'm not mistaken, and then after ten million subscribers. How would you do have a we're, so we the threshold of one million. So technically we should have to play button somewhere somewhere on earth, and I got a double gentlemen. They won't play button, I caught trophies, anyway. We have you. Two hundred accepted psychological warfare got an album with tracks. Where I talk about, Overcoming a moment, weakness reflects our canvassing dot com. Dakota Meyer, put now things that you can hang on your wall, that local books bunch of books. So
under which the book recovered today the making of a soldier the book we cover last part, castor, both by Anthony Herbert Final spin to story that I wrote might be a poem. I'm not sure you have to check it out yourself. It's available for pre order right now, I'm sure the publishers like well there's, probably only gonna, be you know, we're poem myself, fifty of the soul print fifty. If you dont pre her dough me mad three order, so you get that first, a dish, leadership, tragic tax, fuel band, overcoat devalued the protocols, disputes freedom, Fanny feel manual, all the warrior kit books making the dragon about face it very much. the dichotomy leadership, I have a leadership, consultancy called echelon front. You got echelon, front, dot, com for details. If you want to help inside organization, we have online training ye have all mine dot com. We ve got a bunch of life
the events, including the muster twenty twenty one stream ownership dot com, if you want to come to one of those, we ve got a t. F battlefield. We ve got f t x. If you want service members, active retired service members, their families, gold, star families, check out my Louise MOM, Mama Lee she's got a charity organization. If you wanna donate or you want to get involved, go to America mighty warriors dot org and if you want more of my dream, our orations or your need more of echo's questionable queries. You can find us on the inner webs on Twitter on the ground and on Facebook echoes adequate Charles. I imagine Will it give thanks to all the people out there in the service of our nation around the world and the just try and remember that the enemies outside the wire and try and keep the egos in check and supported
and to our police and law enforcement, firefighters and paramedics and Emts and dispatchers, are correctional officers and border patrol and secret service and all first responders out there every
day. Thank you for doing what you do so that we can do what we do and to everyone else, listen antagonistic relationships and do not help you in life. They don't help your mission. They don't help your team, if you don't agree with somebody on something find something that you do agree on build bonds instead of breaking them. There is enough in the world trying to rip us apart fight that the we all win in the end. Until next time, the echo and Jacko out.
Transcript generated on 2021-03-25.