« Jocko Podcast

296: When You're There, You're There. When You're Home, You're Home. W/Sara Wilkinson and Jason McCarthy

2021-08-25 | 🔗

0:00:00 - Opening

0:10:21 - Sara Wilkinson

2:48:10 - Final thoughts

3:13:28 - How to stay on THE PATH.

3:40:01 - Closing Gratitude.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This is juggle bought gas number to ninety six with me, Jocker willing, The chief of naval operations, take pleasure in presenting the Silver STAR metal to special warfare operator. First class Chad M Wilkins United States Navy, for service as set forth in the following citation. Conspicuous gallantry and Rapidity, action against the enemy, while serving as a mission support site team leader while assigned to a joint task force in support of operations enduring freedom on Twenty four April, two thousand and eleven, after Wilkinson displayed superior guidance during a daytime, also targeting a Taliban commander, while under significant enemy fire upon
Arriving into the objective area, petty officer Wilkinson and is a soul element, came under a hail of enemy fire. He and his teammates lead is a soul to set containment on the objective area. after receiving friendly wounded inaction from direct enemy fires and grenades within twenty metres of the target. Compound petty after Wilkinson, boldly exposed himself to the enemy and suppress the incoming fire that allowed his element to move to safety and a name the combat medic, to move to their positions, to treat a head wound of one of his teammates heeded. At the two additional assaults on the target, compound and coordinated, with higher headquarters for three rotary wing, closer support missions, after evacuating all non combatants from adjacent buildings,. But he also Wilkinson actions eliminated the enemy combatants,
enabled the evacuation of the wounded casualties, allowed for the safe extraction of the assault force, his bold leadership. Courageous actions and total dedication to duty, petty off Wilkinson reflected great credit upon himself and open the highest traditions, of the United States naval Service for the president. Jonathan W, greener United States, Navy chief naval operations, so there you are of the award citation of a hero from one of our recent wars, Afghanistan,.
And war is in some ways timeless, doesn't change There are heroes, there are sacrifices. And there's fear and pain and loss. In war also evolves overtime In this new weapon, new weapons, new technology new tactics, there's lessons that are learned there. Solutions that are created. with the advent of poison gas World WAR, one came the advent of the gas mask. From the creation of machine guns came the creation of the tank. War is responsible for the creation or the advancement
radios and radar and atomic happens in energy and jet engines and electric computers and creates problems. but in Crete, solutions to those problems, or at least it supposed to. They ve been great advances in medicine from war. the civil war in America brought The significant use of anesthesia. in world war. One. Men were now being gravely wounded by these newly developed machine guns and they were losing massive quantities of blood and so doktor started regularly. Using blood transfusions for the first time. world war two saw the
spanish use of antibiotics to fight off infections. what workers also where they started using metal plates to repair broken bones. Then fractures from these explosions from these new weapons, Korean war, advanced the idea of life lights. Then helicopters to get wounded soldiers? The care that they needed is please possible. the Vietnam war. Using napalm regularly nap, About advances in burn care, they started using Two septic, an antibiotic infused dressings to reduce faction so.
The war creates new forms of physical trauma. and then create ways to help ease that trauma. And then there's unseen drama. The. concussive glass magic stress, every war as its own form,. In world war wanted, we shall shock in the Hall of going over the top World WAR, two The dreadfulness of close killing. Vietnam, the Confusion over whose good news bad. in our current modern wars. Else to contend with, Ferrar Professional
Warriors. That is the idea of an unending war. what war one as heinous an awful as it was, was also finite. World war to a similar, Absolute horror, yes,. But a horror that ended in four years. Green war lasted three years. Green war is also where we started to see this idea of tours where you. Soldiers would go over, then do tor and then go, and that was it. The same thing in Vietnam
Kind of no that story service members were required to do their hitch in not one year count. The days. Then, in all those cases. For a majority of soldiers, war was a finite thing. Yes, brutal, yes, horrific, yes sickening, but had it in point. but many of this generation are current generation. There's been no one point inside. It's been a constant. Exposure to violence, com
save explosions stress deployment after deployment after deployment after deployment. and the training is elevated to and that's repaired over and over and over again explosive Reaching of doors Firing rockets over and over again improvise demolition, shots and then back on deployment again. The next. And become a never ending cycle of trauma. Then that's taken its toll,
the mental health of some of our nations. Finest warriors men like jagged, Wilkinson. Who received that Silver STAR. And who finally met his and not on the battlefield by the hands of the enemy, but who sadly took his own life, were suicide. And we have to learn from that in here:
today to talk to us about Chad, but what he went through his wife, Sarah Wilkinson, in joining hers, Jason Mccarthy form. Special forces soldier founder, go rock and a friend of sorrows and together Been trying to share the message of mental health, remove the stigmas raise awareness, courage, people to reach out if they need help and encourage us all to help each other. With that, Sarah Jason, thank you for joining us thank you procedures. Again. Yeah Jason came on before your pockets to await talkin about Your experiences special forces in Florida and his champion
I stated my mom- was the badly democratic and sir. You so much for coming out very often to meet you in and I swear to you know get right into your story and the story of in Chad and lets Let's start at the beginning where you from where'd, you grow up? How did it all start our military kid born born and bred. dad was marine. The youngest of two Ivan older sister my mom and dad met pretty young and got married. My dad join the military, became a marine and set off their path to move around couple years, what was he from a military family? No Now random. We join the marine corps. yeah. It was kind of like right where he just missed the draft better, yet still felt the need to serve. I guess he eat They come from a small town in Ohio wherever one kind of stays in
same town, so I think he wanted to find something bigger maybe more more challenging I can relate he wanted to service country, so yeah his marine, our milk. cared moved around all the time, my David officer, so that means we moved every two to three years. We spent most of the time, east coast. We lived one, overseas and open our and yeah. I mean I've. I went to fifteen schools before I graduated fifteen, so you become super adaptable. When you go to fifteen schools, I guess you leaders come super adaptable or just super into, shall not talk to anybody. I rose and you go in there. I agree there Alec area or your rigid I consider myself more like a chameleon, because of that, so I can blend in a room where I can stand out? What needs to happen so growing
moving all the time I mean I went to a different school fifth. Sixth, seventh. Eighth. Ninth grade different school each year for those years. Oh yeah and an answer, then: what about Chad? When did you meet Chad First high school. and where was thus Quantico Virginia so so My dad Marine Right Quantico Marine Corps Base and his dad was navy. His dad was a former seal has There was also a seal, so he always- and to be seen from the time you like twelve by his dad, had switched rate and then was kind of on the helicopter duty with the president, and so that's what brought him to Quantico, because otherwise I dont think you have made We have never been there yet we went all really really small school. It's o high school doesn't exist anymore, so high school on base. That's just for the military, kids, our kids,
well behaved on the military school on the military base school. Well, when I went yes cozy and an early nineties, but also on base, not want to go when I moved to a lesion? This was the case, but a lot of times. You would have a plaque in front of your house, so my house said there is a plan that said colonel to release in front of her house, so you can really you too much because not only you know could they were portrait they knew where you live through controlled environment pretty much What kind of music were you listening to? granting mish now pop it has weak areas this well, when I met him, that was ninety one. so you're a freshman in high school. Ninety one, even Yasser, was kind of peak grunge, yeah you're just get your Nirvana, oh yeah yeah. He loved yeah yeah. I still listen to me just smile, so you got me and was a love at first sight? Is there for me? oh yeah
How do you know about him yeah. He would we go into a military school right off the bat the first day their starts to be buzz about who the new kids are this kid in this case the school so small, and they were talking about the Wilkinson brothers. The girls were like. Have you seen the Wilkinson brothers? So, what's the deal by hand smile, because I just remember this so clearly: sitting in the teachers on the first day traditional, like p coach, just like in tat. call a role in kid was sitting in front of me. I saw the back of his head and they called chat. Consent any turned his head to the side, and he said here I was like: oh I'm done I like em now that how did to correct them, Well, I mean a small school. We can't you aegis and being military kids. I think it was pretty natural,
for all of us to just be friends. There really wasn't like a cool group and not cool group everybody I am forced to be friends- everybody cause the school, so small and rid ourselves more hungry people per please read his graduate in class was twenty four. I think all twenty four hours really rossmore yeah yeah So that's a good one classroom, yeah yeah, we exe the school was a middle school in high school. Together it was just an indifferent hall, so high school took up like one who a half and the Middle school took outbreak another hole in half. In cross paths with the middle schoolers that we are all in the same building. Now we're? U goes in the same grade. Was he a freshman? You refreshment nowadays is easier. Older software used this off miles, Roger there and sullen. But what did he look like
then say what's up sister any. What did you hear? What howdy role has happened? He was pretty cool, I mean I say I wasn't cougar, but he is, I think he was pretty cool in high school and super athletic, and I mean Anybody who is listening, he's really get looking. So you know that go in forum, we were just friends the first year or two, What sports are deeply a primarily on. I think he was on the Gulf team. one year, and I think he would even the kicker for the football team one year because they just knew he could kick it. You know, so he can run out there Jack and then come off but yeah for two years we were more or less just friends mean in that period of time. He did asked me to go to homecoming. and I was super pumped about it. So calm coming is
I don't like yeah the thing is, I went to a really small school too. I think ahead. Eighty people in migration really remember the home. I know MIKE because I've I've kids do my daughter's went to some kind of home coming. But what's the deal with homecoming, I ain't gonna. Let you out of my house. They were dressed up. The boys were wearing ties and like risk tongues, address basically reason and get us having a party or when you know back, then it was big deal because it's a small school and you have a huge pep rally on Friday and has now and we Europeans I mean I could dread pep rallies now they're, like that's lame, I'm not going to like why? Not it's also NASA. We deaden there is football game and then, after the football game you had, you have a dance you get dressed up new corsage in the flower and the whole thing- it's a different time you know I was looking at a boot camp picture of myself the other day and the pics was taken and nineteen ninety right. So I put
Cuz. I got posted on on my social media page right. You know, there's a big boot camp and I thought so that's one thousand nine hundred and ninety, that's thirty one. Years ago. That means when I was in boot camp, if I would have looked picture that was thirty one years old or would have been from nineteen sixty yeah crazy, and then I have sometimes on the palm castle, have guys on that were in a world where to career Vietnam, but recently had a bunch of Vietnam guys on and they just like they're talking about. Yep rallies like these kind of things. It was just a different time at that you got there. I have taken note of it. I think I did. I think I found like the sweet spot of high school before all that just blew, diminished. I don't know ok, see you get a start started sidetrack. I kind of needed to know about home Cummings, because I have my two daughters went to home the homecoming thing they got picked up by some dudes at the house.
The guy's weren't ties and what not tracked it. Nowhere Good ok, so you could ask the homecoming, like add, yeah an end. It is just that the dance and then later will so ask me after gotten food fight in the cafeteria? Were you gonna food? Now he got a fair fight girl. His great animal feed came up yet on a shirt and staff, and then he say hey as he would say You gonna home. Coming with me. I try to act, not really excited that. I was like a right Yes score, so yeah we just went home coming and then that was that we didn't date or anything and then fast forward to the following spring more thing about homecoming and danced in high school. Was there circular like songs that were repetitive closely, I would die school
single dance, went through which started a middle school, which was, I guess it was: seventy seventh, eighth, ninth and tenth eleven and twelve great every single dance that I went to that We advances are not or call now, but every single dance we went to every single one. So there's probably for five a year. You know six or thirty times these. The that would play at the end of the night was arm was stare would have led One is that, in order for a worldwide tradition, I think it's just a really good March out song Airline beat it or lights are coming out, mosey out the door rode on right on so you, you go to this dance and cut you off so you're going to the dancing, and that was that nothing really like became of it, but then fast forward, a couple months later towards the end of the year. He was go by me in the locker and I'd, be sent my locker and walk binding. Just a little hey, and I just I kind of justice
the whole girl without God he's at eight me and then he read it help with a history paper apparently, me about restoring DEC, I was like a guy and then he asked me out to dinner. Went to dinner resort dating pretty much so that was where'd. You go to dinner. max. Can restaurant I will they get. It even exists anywhere. We know the name of it and acquire harbour will shout out. I don't know. If I actually asked the girl did until I was in my tweets will hear class. I well, I don't even know if I should share all this, but we actually also went to a movie and we bought. Gets to some stupid movie because we can get an radar movie and then we snuck in to the movie sliver you may remember that movie horror movies, like sexy, Miller and run like on this date, nor, like Life Assurance stone. I I think so
I actually DORA number who isn't it. I mean this is a long time ago, but I just remember, be like lately red. Thankfully darkly we'd, better embarrassed, the tap radar and second rate at our movie crazy. They get you to increase its where you was. That was his words his senior year. Ah, I was It was the end of my sophomore year, his your year, and so this was ninety. Ninety three earlier really started dating scenario, a jet dating through the summer. Well. So then I know coming in the fall. Then it was frost. I don't know if it changes, but it was like October. I have a really great picture from that day. I should pass it to you just cuz, it's good, but no we, my dad got stationed in June, so I had to leave after my sophomore year I yeah and now only time I was ever really pissed honestly, every move at Billig, ok, you know we didn't get them,
vacations we moved. that's what happened in your own in venture, and this is the only time I was mad, and so what were you into four? Where you do in sports as well? I was swimming swimmer has a swimmer yeah. how is that person than site you wake up at five? Is when you go to school, he swam swam alot we're ok, Now you have to go to camp whom yeah so I managed to work a deal and I stayed best friends, house staff, Cutty. so I could hang out with her, but really so. I could hang out with Chad. To be honest, I manage our road already hen, yeah, just now that some are the lifeguard at the pool poor base through scores lifeguard and I pulled bullets at the shooting range. Do you know like without role em up and we all the high school kids? just sit there like in this little dug out with you
pro on and see the bullet go any pull the target slapped the sticker on it, throw it back up how we spend our weakens minimum wage oh yeah. I was barely make an anything where we I was actually in the Navy, and I did that might have for each other. There well have you know people will come down and do it for us. I guess Marine Corps officer thing. Well, our friends dad pretty much ran the rain, so I think there is like having to make these kids do something, and so we could hang out with our friends all day. On the weekend it makes you sound like such a nerd, not saying this. I didn't do anything like super crazy in high school, but we with our friends and get paid a little bit of money, So that's where you spend the summer and this whole time you're hanging out with Chad's are you guys are tight entitled as yet or a thing and what you're gonna bail, ya, gotta the clock is ticking, and so religion continue dating I'm a junior he's a senior and he would
I've down on the weekends which was kind of a big deal cause. You know he was fairly newly licensed you now and his mom and dad would let him drive the many Vanderwiller was driven know he had a old Ozma Beale. I think it might have belonged to his crampons. Unlike the front sea like was busted so it like sat crooked. It was a hoop d His great and he would drive that down on the weekends and see me and then drew back let every weekend, but as much as you could stay the night parents Rico This was like a thing because my pair mom said to me recently like in the last year we had some conversation just about this chat, and I are you, then she said I don't know what it was. I just. We just always knew that The relationship with you in Chad was just something different and he stayed- I mean he stayed in a separate rooms. He wasn't my round, but Euro a ruthless forest,
No, he was getting tactical I'm. I am your blaring girl. As the sorts of how long does this long distance relationship or sell or we so we date and then, when I so he graduates, enormous senior. So I'm a senior he graduate high school, his mom and dad move to flow. Orlando now, when he's nice words you Talkin about joining the Navy. Is you talk about gold in the tree? He always kind of. I think he just always that's what he was going to do. It wasn't that he talked Naxa, so he has two brothers, his oldest too others, and then a sister and his house was just full of. Every classic seal movie. You now speckled movie
You know he had posters on his ball, which I I still have that we can find anywhere in horrible, I think it was just something he always knew. That's what he was gonna. Do I don't ever remember him talking about anything else like. Oh, I might go to business school or isn't it there is. It was so obvious to him and you there was not even really big, subject, Rosa gavel, what else to do yeah and I mean even then I dont think at my age I was even thinking about you know our life, gather. Oh I'm gonna marry him. I do too. his name? A lot on all may know both caress, but you do. I agrees with your grunge teacher and a boy crash, but I I always thought I'm just gonna be wherever he is enormous, thinking my marriage about, but it new, wherever he is where I want to be run on ok. So then what happens we up so that color
so he broke out after oh, this is using rising years, he's gone it yeah, so he moved down the Florida, and so The deal was, is he wanted to be an officer and at that time, so he unrolled in university a central Florida, his mom Doubt or nor Orlando he's down there with them he's thinking of go to college. I wanna get afore your degree and then I'm gonna go. Do the whole Navy buds deal? but they were saying: hey we're not really taking officers right now cause we just don't need em, so you can go get your degree, but it's not that's, not gonna work out, and so basically a year and college. He said: ok, I'm out and joint so we broke up my senior year. It did you break up. For after he joined the Navy before So before he's in Orlando on in we break up really because I think you know you
friends are like. Why are you Dayton some boy to lose so far away that stupid? so we broke up and I we spent two and a half years pretty much, went by and that time the time he was in college and my senior year and then my first year after graduating high school. We just didn't really speak to each other, and this was before cell phone social media. You care properties, cyber stock, somebody back in them back in the day right and I would stay in touch with his sister, his little sister she's ten years younger than ham shoes yeah on a matter which is five so she's, pretty young, but and so I always kind of knew what he was doing and I knew he joined the Navy and you know, went to boot camp and was going to bed in
I I really wanted to be there for his graduation of buds, but I thought be weird if I just show up plus it never been account for the whole thing I'm living. Confirm that would be weird yeah, yeah yeah, and so during this time you know he he's those college joins. Whatever I finish high school, my family moves to Tampa cause. My dad is at sent com so his family's Orlando, my families and Amber I'm going to community college and I, I want to be there for his buds graduation, but I can't do that. So I need to put myself in a position that doesn't allow me to do that. So I went on a cruise and I thought, if I'm on a boat or can get off the boat, unlike nineteen or something and we d Zog and New Orleans, and I told my girlfriend eyes like I'm, I'm getting off the boat, I'm gonna go get on a plane and unjust. show up there and she's like ok. Can I really didn't have any money to get their splendid lawmakers? I would
but you haven't been communicating with him now during this time. From now, just keep in touch with a sister, unlike his mom would checking from time to time. Glass bombs, delight you yeah, I hope so yeah so then so then he graduate buds, so graduates buds and now what happens well, I knew, he graduated buds and then I also knew who is coming back to Orlando. So I took a couple days off work and just waited. Then he called and said had really like to see you and I was like. Oh that's, cool Let me see if I can get off work out of later and on TAT Dim drove their. with super nervous, his brow there I think, opened the door. He was rustling as other brother in the background probably trying to play at corn pretty much the thing is I day on the bleachers. You know. As soon as I saw him, I was like.
So he he had graduated budget that points and how he must be on orders got orders to a team yeah, so he had to go this is when they were pad specific rates- your time for Primarily to so, he went to the medics school songwriter, so actually, Sir Hugh what he got was. He must have been a common and then they would take corpsman and after buds they would take corpsman and send them to eighteen delta. the special forces Medic School, what's engine, thing about that and I might messes up a little bit, but his dad then had orders to Fort Bragg in his dad ran that school all so he went through the school that his dad was running. Let us now I gotta get some great hope for peace. A smart guy does get in school,
so so so what happens so then he's gonna, that's cool! Now! Are you to back together this yet like where we were back back so back together? And this is, ninety six, and so I decide because I wanna be wherever he is- I'm gonna go to college it Methodist, which is a really small school, unfair urville. So I go their first semester. I had to do a whole presentation, my dad dad right, Colonel the Marine Corps, He always says we need to do something that every ducks lined up and come to me and I did like a report and figured out how much of past I got scholarships. I got different things: how much We pay for real, because I just wanted to be closer to Chad Part of the briefing or not, I think He probably understood that was highly did once master. I hated it. My left back Florida, so he D the magic school and then he was after salty. Maybe they want to go to school. To me. Did you guys reconnect again
so where we are dating long distance. Now he's at teammate, I'm down in Florida Then I'm going to the University of Florida and ok, I'm gonna do college down here. You're gonna do that and then we break up again now so too too, pretty big breakups it's hard to check into a team of work a girlfriend or whatever no offense, to girlfriends of the world, but you are young. You are going down, you arse, when you're young new team guy you have so much on your mind as far as work goes its like? Hey, I don't have time. Anything else. Right now and I don't know- that's probably has at least a little something to do with it. You're down in Florida he's up there like want to make sure you could go for this net, promise? Had I mean he would drive down still on the weekends, only a little later than usual, like out it's all criteria and am but yeah broke up.
Ends. Ah that was just terrible, because I really thought that that was probably at. I thought. I'd probably lost him forever. And then how long are you guys broken up for traffic, the timeline probably like a year and a half someone up today You did he do his first appointment. Yeah he didn't play using the enterprise is on ship. Timing is on a ship at that time and what you are problem! play ninety seven or eight far more that history does a deployment he's a medic, you guys, are broken up your own of floor. Europe when a college in Florida yeah ends still keep in touch with his sister and are we You know we had email so in a like the die.
That issue and I would do the dial up now and check to see me ever email me and then all the said one day did you just said I'd just I told the guy's Ike. I keep thinking about you and I want to see you so so you say come up to Virginia Beach. It cannot afford, or now I said you know where I live personal. He still on deployment, he wasn't home yet so I didn't know and I'm in college and yeah he drove down and showed up at my doorstep, and I did the same thing I did in high school. I just Couldn't believe he was there, he now and an just excited and We said to each other. I said to him before he comes came down. If we see each other again. We're gonna know like this is either gonna be forever or it's just not, and he came down and pretty much.
Role of herself. When I went to Orleans knowing asked me to stay in extra day, I said: do you think you could stay next day and I was it so that was the summer of ninety nine. I think, may have ninety nine. How old are you? this point you made me do bath like anyone, you know, sir, you are your college here, you're young college, and he's so ups in yeah and says we're all gonna. Do this yeah, I'm did you draw. not a college. You would you do know. I stayed in college slightly more responsible than that yeah fading college. We here we are engaged that summer in July we got married on paper as a lot of military people do wish got.
Married up in Virginia Beach and that in the skies backyard, and so we were at least married and had all that- and I spent time down in Florida, and then I worked it to gradually. I had to do an internship too, to finish my degree, so I an internship with the city of Virginia beat as I wonder where he was so you guys you you you get married or he proposes to you and then get married, the old school like what I You know my wife and I got married at the San Diego courthouse in my chief was like the way you have to bring a witness. So my does it. Can you come with me no witnesses, my wedding knees at you. Get married yeah, ok, down there and you know this judge goes. I got your married and then we walked out. No. We went to like Danny. had a hamburger, and that was the honeymoon. Aspect but ass. We did. You know that sort of that's where you guys do to acting for me. That's it
her story. Reno, our story, we went and got married in the skies backyard. Nobody knew we were living in a house, a team guys I was living with him and for other team, guys in the house his job, that was good, guys, gonna burn easy. Now, just me poor wife at my poor wife did that too well. It wasn't fourteen guys, but it was me my running mate team Guide roommate, who just the Basque. I ever it also just like you say, we're all crazy, and so we we live in the upstairs apartment and then to other team, guys lived below us and it was just I'm sure was very similar to the environment. Europe Lecter Roger was crews boxes. Dinner was dominoes, breakfast was Guinness, Lunch was Yeager, Meister was just mayhem. Yeah Jasper, likes to say, remembers, coming to visit and he got out of the shower and it was
disgustingly just took a paper towel, unlike patted his body dry because he didn't put to use any I've been out of it. Is that girls, maybe for him, but you know it was deeds house. You know I got there baron- and there was one giant so far. That was the ugliest Chad had bought it. The scandinavian print? It was the taxis, ugliest thing in in literally his entire life. He still talked about that stupid sofa purse. I saw my wife and I but my my road runner. May we had this freakin couch that was goal I think it's called velvet velvet that what it's called like this kind of like a really saw yeah push back and forth? So was gold velvet it had so cut? A wood carvings are beyond it had do have been. more than ten feet long. It was freaking huge weaken. I was ass yet and it was comfortable couch ever and I we got it at whatever
store for whenever thirty eight dollars or somethin best couch ever that's where he says and weaken fat like three to four full size deeds on it, I think was worn typical we'd wake up and one of them would be on the sofa. His Cosette was comfortable and they the House, then it was it. There is a sofa, there's, a calculator, and when I told him that put decorations up as like you guys, stuff on the wall. They hung shooting target like the real ones pictures you know the man on the validity of homicide. Does he have a weapon? Does not shoot him, That was when I was in our house for a little while certainly not like our heart. Really nice. Welcome to the team community it wiser. Now, as it was such a different life back then you. Are you going out the boys act when my wife came over and then we were- yeah, but what she when we started, which is our eleven with me I come out with us, you know in Yang,
we go out and burnt I. You know I'm in Virginia Beach and there's this bar. That's been there forever hot tuna, they ve sensory done it, but through nausea. I just went back literally like two weeks ago for the first time, and I thought Ivan pending, and for ever, and it took me back till one: nine in particular charge road, Green Jeep, Cherokee. Still his favorite car always and went out with a bunch of guys and we just lift it up the back gate. You don't just shove them in there, but it actually. You know this is a long time ago forget to seatbelt shut in went hot tuna sure enough. There was a fight we got kicked out. Totally and I just remember, run out are thrown up the back gate. The guys get men were out. and this lifestyle to you. What do you think I'd really like ok? Well, this is the way it is, I don't even think I thought anything I just was when it in
Your military and non military kid- and you understand the come rotary that can happen there and in the sense of family that can create an I was really happy, and I think he was too to have made it. Be a team guy, he was at teammate your eye. no, if there's anything better than Vienna III, five in a sealed put to its just freaking awesome at its everything you do so, while we were there, we had about a wedding later rights. We had a week, I being far family. They wanted like the bigger wedding, so in May of now we're gonna go two thousand. I guess we got married and so the boys all decided we're gonna come
run it an hour v and they drove from Virginia beats to where we got married and all my girlfriends from college had come and they were there. You know, don't ask them questions there were perception and you look around the room and there's one huge round table with all these really good. Looking deeds around my browser like and hence the need, She is not only are they like a bunch of deeds and their good looking up at one of them had like a butterfly stitch on his forehead, where they stopped and survey on Latin Unbar, five, those like so appropriate. You know it was good We want to move to Virginia Beach. He was. Our aim must be to work up. When did you go on employment? That's when I start to forget so he's already done one deployment earnings on the ship. Then he comes back and then he two more there? I honestly care remember the months. So
he's gone under point for the first time are the first and that your married, so it is, I guess it be his second appointment, yeah and now like what did you just say in Virginia Beach? Did you go seller This was like. I had to do the whole. I live ere, I did my internship than we got really mean for real and of that's right cause he did deploy and I move, back home with my family. During that second deployment We were in the middle of like not anywhere so we'd lived with the team guys we had our own apartment for a little while and which was also one of the greatest times cause you don't realize it at the time when you're young and you have no money and you live in. Harm, and I think it was four hundred and twenty five dollars a month pleasure. ass road shore. Dr Chicks Beach, where everything goes down, just how great that is who have nothing and you kind of need nothing
such simplicity. So anyway, we moved out of that apartment. He left on deployment. I went back to say with what do you do when you live in that little apartment? You know like what accept so good. I mean there's nothing to take care of its an apartment, our friend Lance Vanikoro, who who passed away in two thousand a he lived in the same, complex. So you know you shoot the shit with him when you see on gas just like making dinner and eaten, and on that we had a cruise box, one of those metal, folding collapsible ones from those who we are ass. Our coffee table he's tablecloth over it. We'd eat their passage, cookin meals and a crock pot, terrible me and my buddy had a cruise box that we had like by the cat by the big gold couch with a cruise box that had the phone on it and then The crews box was in sharp. He was written everyone's like numbers from the different attitudes and make the team area number other those good times.
Work and also about the, as you advance hence in life when you get an apartment, that's like step one but then, You get an apartment that has a told my kids this when you get in a parliament that has a washer and drier like on site. That's a big deal and they need if you have one that has parking, that's like the next big step up anywhere else thinks are those things bring joy. We are young and broke air. driven by that apartment a few times in the last few years and all the places we blow them genuine, each new, Ok, so you do the bigger the big wedding and all these years. friends of therefrom cause there's a bunch of team guys there. That sounds like a awesome time, and- and and then he's goin on employment. Again. Ah yeah so he we get married He goes on deployment, I think, before he
often deployment is when I found out. I was pregnant here, which is another reason like took me home occur so. We weren't planning at, but we weren't not planning it a colleague. You know we ve been together, for it is what it is. So so you get pregnant. He goes on appointment gap. You go home to Lord, I'm, ok, reform and you're living you know doing. What are you doing here? then this again was before we didn't have cell phone, so you know this its interest when people are alike upset cause, they didn't get delightful time with their husband and deployment in today's world as I would miss phone calls, and then you don't know what he's gonna call you again and we so many letters. He wrote me I'm pretty grateful for that, and some in Florida he's deployed. China talked him when I can.
gonna baby in the belly and all the things he comes home. Together baby, while he was on the party come home in time he came home so cause. I was like super newly pregnant when he laughed, So we know what were still stay in Virginia Beach, so I go up to Virginia Beach. Super pregnant with my and by our first house. While he's gone, three yeah and then he came home from deployment, nay and one and my daughter is born in August, and now he still at t, mate he's done to deployments and yeah. And it's your daughter was born in August of two thousand want and he's in there platoon at this point, yeah. And he so he he gets through point mentioned for the rest of his time. There he goes to night school because he,
on a finishes degree. So we finish this degree of Oda. You we avenue maybe and then he fell just as time he was at trade at anchor So, like a young family, you know when timber. Eleventh happens so easy trade out when September eleventh happens He was think you might have been actually yeah so subject haven't happens now. What are you thinking that such crazy as it Everyone remembers where they were when that happened. I we even think I have the ability to think about it in the scope of the military and what
the military was gonna do or our country was gonna do to react. Had just was dumbfounded kept trying to call him at work, can get ahold of M p eventually showed up at the house, and we just gonna looked at each other and he's psych holy shit so And at that point, did you what's he like? Ok, I'm gonna go back and appointment was. He was his plan at that point,. I mean, I think his plan was to just stay here at that I think he always wanted to just be a career seal, so whatever was gonna keep him in the game. Quite honestly, we had a conversation after a deployment and that he wanted to go it's damn neck and I was like no ends I don't even know. Why said? No, I never said no. I always like supported in encouraged M push. but for some reason at that point,
I didn't want him to go, I don't know how would it turned out if he were gone then, but yeah, so he, stayed in the military, but then. because in all this, when he came home from that last deployment, I got with our sun or its third deployment at eight and ah that was when so two thousand wine, but fast forward, you know, were in two thousand for, and I think we both kind it well I'd say more me. When did something different. So child wanted to be a seal. He always want to be a door kicker. That's what you wanted to do. You know hide in the bushes and do all the things in as military kids. I was Are you trying to do something different in the grass is green or on the other side right? I moved all the time and I did want my kids have to move all the time and I didn't want their dad to be gone all the time, and so we talked about it and we
making the decision to get out of the military, so he had been in ten years at this point and its two thousand for his son is born? He writes does that last deployment and we got out and moved Raleigh North Carolina. Do you know not what did he go to Iraq or Afghanistan deployment or do different deployment like over to you, com or somethin? Ah age should Nellie sitting Dixon, fax, better, but I don't mean I'm like twenty three with a baby and year, while this would be very similar to ask my wife. Yet why? Where I went on the point of view, as I know, the always gone he's elsewhere about my wife, Xanadu do yeah yeah he's gone I'll, be back later, so, Sir, you make this decision to to get out. and now it was the plan. So at that point His family's now live in a Raleigh North Carolina he's he has his college degree. He
stunned. Ten years in the military, anything's. Ok, I'm gonna get out phenomena provide for my family in a civilian world and and we dared any out a job and pharmaceuticals. You know a lot of research, they're kind of irony in that when I'm sitting here thinking about him in his life and the path he chose, He's in pharmaceutical research and a we just hated it from moment. We laughed, I think, most people, pictures of habit. It's my belief right. People are creatures of habit with you like that. Have it or you don't like to have it, it's it just is what it is, and our habit is that we are. military kids, we are you To adversity, and challenge and changing dynamics on the regular we're use. Two different situations and the idea of living in the same house doing the same job with the same people for the rest of your if as nauseating, and I don't think it
challenging for him and while did one of his last jumps with the guys before he left the guy, jumped out of the plane in their like you're. Not going to do this with you pharmaceutical. Do you now, and I think I, in that always German. And I think like most of these guys, they don't want to feel like they quit. I guess. and for Chad anyway, separate from the military and not retiring. He probably felt like he wasn't finished and I felt to cause. He was miserable miserable how we were miserable. How long did it take for buyers remorse to set in Lisbon North Carolina, that was there any sort of like honeymoon period. Hey we own a picnic today and we have to worry about anything. Oh yeah longer that less all that I mean I think at last for about a year, even though I feel in the back of our minds we lay in bed and we're like he'd say: what are we doing? What are we do
like out of the gate where Rita at night. You know, but then it's like ok we're we're doing it, though cause At the same time, you see it is a challenge in some ways you like I doubting myself because I want to go back my daddy myself cause now. I just have this new challenge and I got a leg overcome it: what was he doing for the pharmaceutical company companies was a project manager and I think he was candy for all the girls enough. I know this because my sister in law works and the real soon tell me by doubt. He tell I just he said to me. I he came home unease like Sarah. I was sitting in the breakers today celebrating baby shower eating a pink fucking cupcake and I'm questioning my life and you're like ok? I don't think this is gonna work and,
as cool as it is to have him home every day and he had a good job. We made good money, the american dream. I mean our house had a rap around porch, no joke the picket fence mean by by most standards. I don't even know, if that's fair, to say any more in today's world, but It was the cool american dream, but it not our dream, how far into it was the up cake incident with allies to its into animals? I wasn't closer towards that now is probably about two dollars was the attitude that broke the camel's back totally pink cupcake programme. I think it was a real pivot point and the isn't to bash cupcakes. Her baby showers or any of those things, but he's just didn't he Do you know he's a military dude he's a knife carrying you know dude,
and for him to put on a business sue a tie every day aegis. People should be things there not and that's not who he was. so what was the total time that he he made it in the pharmacy? so he left the military in two thousand for and we were back in the military September. Two thousand seven people like to have to now you're here what, when he like ok, sorry comes home from a cup. The cupcake incident, or you just like you, You can see the misery in his face and you like our good. Let's go yeah yeah. I e that we also again, I remember, being in the living room and in hearing about red wings, and I said in the living room watching it on tv and just hinges. you know he's just sitting there can at his hands on his head. Niece totally shit. I think that
probably had a large part, even though we didn't come back for some time. I think the things weighed on him the way the world was changing. It was ramping up were now a couple years past nine eleven. He he felt called to go back. then he makes a phone call talks her, like some guy or whatever and team guy recruiter something here. We don't really know how that was gonna play out right I mean they could have just said. No, you left, but I think at the time you know he people, you know he was team, rabbit and if you deployments he had good service respected, they said sure, but they told them because hadn't deployed in all three years. He had to go back, through. Security was std when he graduated and ask you to have to ask you to hear So we I mean he left for work. One day he had talked to the sky
kind of figuring out if this was gonna work or not, he left for work one day and I just said the his tie in his suit of ice. this is stupid. We gotta go back and we sold our house and he signed up go back and we sold a lot of what we owned. Because there is no need to have it. We we were gonna move to California. He he said if he had to go back to rescue t again. He wanted to just go to the West Coast team, just We could all be out there together, and we put a little bit of things in a U hall and the kids and I flew out Santiago and I had never been there oh, I came out of my house hunted- try to find an apartment for us a couple weeks prior, but oh man, I hadn't, spend any time out here in and he over. You ha cross country. Cowan down on some flour, seeds and just going like ninety and, like you know, jacked up on caffeine in and got there.
Then, where did you go? Move into two has moved a corner: yeah we found cool it. I just got lucky found this cool apartment. Same thing can like are, for, apartment it. I mean this these can be more than eight hundred square feet. It was too bedrooms, one bathroom. It was art I'll be age. Maybe even a little bit more and our kids shared a room, did you say you had been to Santiago before you had not only come out like a week or two before to try to find a place to live long. We think it, when you drove from San Diego over the core, not obey bridge- and you see corner for- I was flip in my left behind has its like. Yes, amazing is one of the craziest sites. I think what you do, we bring anyone to Santiago. You got a corner, you drive over the bridge and you see Coronado its authority you are it's ridiculous and I've spent eat. I spent most of my youth on the EAST coast and in almost always close
beach I always did. I don't live more than thirty minutes from a beach. Let's be honest, so the fact that I can flip coast in and live here and on corn autos, India and Brazil. skeeters here the French coming out in an image I felt like it was to be dusk and there echo, the mosquitoes gonna call me. There's no mosquito ain't. Believe me, Harold, varied believe in another way. What are you talking about? How could there be no mosquitoes? It's totally here crazy, so. Now you living Coronado gap given the dream taken bikes around the sidewalk walk into coffee and all that stuff yeah. I got a rat little beach cruiser bought me and kids were little Owen, my son, learned rather too wheeler at too, and he this little many. By can we made friends with the guy the bike shop and his aims hut. My son's Hudson and Hudson would ride in the bike Chauvelin one day the guys like a little come here, any swapped owl. I should show your picture this he's
out at the handlebars of his bike for a hangers odor? So, like your turn array and here's a three year old dislike little, many baikonur, heaping or handlebars bars, grace Chats gonna ask you to this time, so I ask you to just server knows it's that when you get on with buds, you go you ray from bugs and after buds they started. Teach you some stuff in this thing called ask you too, you don't really learn anything and buds. How to go through suffering, and then you get to ask your tea in the star teaching you, like all the the mental basic individual skills of being a seal at a higher level and occasionally like Chad's perfect example, guys guys out for three years: hey we got new radios we need, we can't just thrown back inopportune our rights and of the refugees who occasionally that happens job on Sunday gotten even have to get out of a guy's on shore duty for three years and he been in some way,
but where he's not operational for three years now be like you know, you go back to refugee and using article yup got it and so you're doing individual skills, but he opposition. All the other guys. First of all, the other guys don't even have tried in tat so he's a actual seal and they're they're. Just not even you guys yet because they dont even there never tried it. So he's position of. like real mentorship To help them out and there looking up to him, so that's that's what's happening with. Definitely he one thing I always loved- Chad is he's a good at teaching you what he knows without making you feel dumb I think it's a lot of that, probably from his dad in the ways that is, but I think that it's a real skill in and try to like FF
stir, your own learning, while he's teaching you something, and so I think it was a really natural fit for him. While he was and ask you tee to just be the That would mean a lean in two guys and say: hey man. This is how I like rig. I gear up this way- and I you know do this this way and I think it was a good Parents, hopefully for the guys that were with me now to have this more senior person around, but is also good for Chad in this you start doing crossword at this time out here? Oh yeah and without Andy's. Jim Andy stop yeah. So the reason I'm I'm laughing is because you know your about how jobs Type of person that could teach you something without can you feel bad about what you don't know.
think Andy might be the opposite. That Eddie, like enjoys there, he's gonna teach seventy supper. He teach me stuff that already know it makes me feel stupid. He had its national law has harrassing like fun with it yeah yeah. I definitely so you so this is anti. Have like a crossroads Jim in corn on yeah. You answer you just rolled in there and signed up. Did you know anything about crossword at the time? So when we were in Raleigh Chad started doing crossfire. This is like two thousand five and He was so into cross fit. I was so not into cross fit this kind of help played out- I remember cook and dinner one night and he said you need to come in the garage. I got this thing called a muscle up and also- and I opened the door and I didn't know that goal Slammer door totalled you're. So here put me through some work out and our garage raleigh, but I that minimise exposure on living. Coronado and haven't you little kids and he's busy with work? I feel You know I'm a moment to kids. I plenty to exercise a little bit more right.
one day. I just pass the gin and it was news like literally just opening an I call didn't, know Andy Stump time called him and said hey. Can I come your german thousand dollars Was he teaching not march his wife Jamie was teaching alight, sir? each Castro Dave. Castro's wife was coaching there, some brutal it was. It was such as in a visitor. Early days were talking. Two thousand seven m of you know of cross at gender kind of expanding and so as a small, Jim now and trainers there. This is so like his, when Dave Castro was teaching S cute t end like I think they ran a level one course. Yes at us you t and I wouldn't went the curtain and- I called out and got whatever some kind of education for that and then that's
that's, probably the first time that I met in sorting out Dave Castro. I think that's it because he was rather than he was like help me out, and then we eventually well when we open this Jim, that we're sitting in right now, That was too thousand was late, two thousand seven, so we had the you know I had to go to like the shirts and stuff like this, that you have to get yeah back in the day, yeah dimension, to keep you Jim. yeah to keep your Jim and so you get you get into it. You gotta get into yeah. I do like really into it. I you know. I like the challenge of the physical challenge. I like the way my body was changing, Ambrose mom to kid. So I get into it, and so I got opportunity to go to my level. One did a coach people ever, never, never! My plan, I just wanted to know more about it. So I went to my level: one insane ago one weekend
Ok in Chad, what's squshy six six once something like TAT and He's thinking, West Coast team gap, your live in the dream, women outworn, auto anymore, happens there well Bill King happened. the seal from Damn neck king to the West Coast to talk to ask you two guys in explained to them down the pipeline, if they want to ever be no bridge that gap and head over to seal team six, here's kind of what you need to do more those guys when they finish ascii. As you said, they get their trident legal, regular team, they ve gotta, do two to three deployments now become maybe a little less green and then they can screened go to goddamn neck and that's when Chad took it upon himself to introduce himself to him and say hey my name's shod Wilkinson. Here's a little bit of my story, I'm in a finishing up, I'm gonna go
Wes goes team and then in the future I plan on coming to screen, and he Said how bout you don't and just come screen right now that was out there and he didn't consult me So would you get six months and did not oh yeah? That's just it out. I was pretty upset, I mean, but right? I mean this is our life and this is our path, but I did not want to leave. Yeah, he came home and he said: hey, I'm gonna fight averaging b, next weekend and do this thing to screen and if that's the case were moving and yeah fast forward, back to Virginia Beach April, two thousand eight did you move back there even before while he started go through green team in everything oh yeah yeah, we moved like with him, he laughed gotta green team. We move back So then he makes it through green team and starts the cycle over there, which is deployment, deplore
deployment work up to four network of the permanent work. A point worth point: I mean it: time, yeah two thousand aid. It was fast, furious. There was busy and when you get to Virginia Beach. Are you what you do you're prospect deal so I moved back to Virginia Beach, I check out there at the time there were only two other gems in the area I can really take my kids caused, This was before there were a lot of kids spaces and cross with gems, and there was really no we're safe for them to be. We we run in an apartment when we came back to Virginia Beach, not knowing where we and live. and also not knowing if the whole green thing was gonna pan out, I think for chatty. Just was like an early now and he rented a garage in this apartment complex and we bought enough equipment so that we could put to pee. he and I essentially throw work out, and then my girl and said. Well, can I Work out with you
make sure and then not just grew and grew in than we had, whole bunch people outside of the garage one day and fast forward October. Two thousand eight, I opened my jim so he's in green team. And anybody whose listening and has lived, I is very stressful, Especially when you know you're you're coming you're doing all these things and you come home and you got your wife and your kids and you got to do the family man thing too, and then I go ahead and to take it upon myself to start this whole business venture now you rented hamburgers space that you rented for that cross with Jim oh, the first Vondra who it was like twelve to thirteen hundred square feet, and I just remember saying in the cars like: I need to do this, because this is This is about to take off and in this- all I want to do think he was a little worried because.
You know why our work his world? You live a really quiet life and he didn't want anything that I was doing too not overshadow, but have the sort of imprint on what he was doing there. You know and treasure and of course, in a military town, the hot Trusting part about voting. The gin is what doing is your providing a service to people and its very personal service, so people They know you and what happens is. Friends come and join the jam, and I had kind of established at the very beginning like we're friends, but at the same time this is this. Is it you know a business and you do if, if your team, wife, you don't talk about it in this Jim, You don't I don't wanna hear when your husband's coming home, I don't wanna, hear when your husband's leaving. I do want to hear about another spouse that just wasn't no fly so so we are busy.
I will do little get and how did the gym take off? How do you do it It was awesome, my whole hope was just to be able to cover the rent Expenses and we exceeded that the first month, the first and are we still working on a lot of things. Do you know the first person that came beyond my kids and they had a little kid? I didn't know what to do with them. So I stacked up some tires and I just Kid in the summer. The tyre industry like just stay there today, because it just Myspace? L advocate those pictures. Now, innovative from cross. It listening, and I do not know how someone didn't get clubbed inhabit the barber, how close we, but it all worked out, and meanwhile Chad's like This is now two thousand eight, so it's just on its on there And he and he's Goin on appointments, and now we can-
to talk about this, no mention that my wife would be like. I don't even know where my husband's that he's gone and you'll be back later. That was gonna her attitude and its, I think, frankly. Well, I can speak for everybody, but it definitely worked for my wife. You know she did hey, you go. Do you gotta do I'll, be here I'll, be here man in the fort back home and that was good and maybe it would have been more stressful if she knew where I was or what I was doing anything like that she just like you, go, do what you gotta do What did you guys have that? with that sort of the way you guys operated yeah I mean when he is deploying it was Iraq Afghanistan, then it became Africa and I knew generally what country he was in. But beyond that how we always operate. It was you. Do your job and and I'll do my job meaning take care of our kids. When gone and when you're gone, you're gone and when your home, your home,
I know some other spouses. They share a whole lot and they they know probably way more stories about their husband than I know it, and maybe almost too much. But Chad really really lived by the fact that you don't talk about it, and it could have much to what you said. Maybe he just didn't want me worry either. That's what I'd like to think and vice versa. I didn't call him and say you know I mean hot water heater busted, one time in that add Atkins flooding everywhere. What's he gonna do if I call him and now so e seal wives are tough to were there for me, and I think you know you said: are you you said you weren't sure of Chad didn't want you to worry. I can almost and to you that the act dude was like the last he wants you to do is worry and remember, ah, one of my guys, Mikey months or who, died at the end of our deployment, but when I got home and talking to his family and
His his sister, Sarah was, you know, just tell me what this was we're in this place. Called Romani was really connected. women with a lot of casualties and. He had told his family. You know why you would call them. Oh yeah, we're just you know we're just trade in some Iraqis where Europe will not do anything. It's boring like all these kind of things I mean these are just outright, not true at all, when used in one, is firmly to worry about what he was doing and we had certainly code things. I knew when he call me and he would say: okay, I'll call you when I can- and I love you if he was going out, he was going out. do stuff, and I know what he called me in a day, three or four days I don't know, but I I knew that many was gonna be busy. and I also say like from my perspective again the suggest me, but I don't
I talk to my wife about that stuff. You. I don't want to talk to my wife and one explained her what's going on with this and what I don't want talk to me about Blackwater kids are doing or what we're having for dinner or whatever. I want to talk about other stuff. That's what I want to talk about. I want to talk about. Teen guys with my wife. That's not so maybe there you know, plays into a two and might like. I said my wife, she barely know where I was going or whatever and its power. We because anyone who worry yes, but also talk about other stuff. Now talk about work, you, don't nineteen hours with these dudes walk talk about a review. Darlin talk about something else. at some point. You must have realised, or did you start to see like hey these things are where non Chad these appointments are, like was you're a change in his in his attitude in his personality in in the
He carried himself yes and no I think it's hard. to distinguish winning exactly that was in. bounce around a minute, I just had to scroll through a bunch of photos, Jason and I will work and on something in through schooling as photos the other day. What I realized is winning really got bad. It was two years before he died. So two thousand sixteen. I can almost see it through photos, but even before that, I do know. I know some stories now since he's die, that he never shared with me in two thousand. Twelve was a pretty big deploy. Then I guess her crazy deployment alone are the best way say that, and I think Some stuff happen there in two thousand. Fourteen.
He was starting to change a little bit more, but what a spouse says is that's just how they are in the dough, the world, the media, talks. Davy seals are big in the news now right since nine eleven, since of two thousand allotted: they're all over and their made to be larger than life, and they use these words, and- and so the guy is always told how brave and fearless and heroic and strong they are, then he's got believe that he's gonna live that and then, on the same type token you see with our special operators. How they are. You know quiet how they do sit in the corner of the room and their backs he's always you know to the wall in there always facing the door, and they don't want to engage in com station, all the time and just chalk up all those those p
he s de symptoms that people like to throw out, but it's I think it's very easy for someone like a spy. To say well, that's just kind of how the guys are because they have a stressful job and their beat down their bodies broken. So so you said we are looking at pictures now and you're going through the years you can kind of start to identify things that you saw your day when you back it becomes a little bit does become more obvious. As you look back a yeah yeah, I mean I, I and tell you then, by its it's more obvious to me now this might be a dumb question, but do you think that that has to do with the fact that we don't get taught any about this kind of stuff. We meaning and maybe it's more prevalent now, but you know I do a couple par gas on here about
polar Pollard, Louisbourg Junior, he was the son of a famous marine, the most marine named justly polar and polar was. He was the heap his dad Jesse Polar was the the most iconic marine ever and he received five Navy crosses and he the hairs. way describe how I he is here them core has a has a mascots indeed had one it's a bulldog, The mass gotta figure on number seventeen, but the mass got his name Jesse and Abu camp. They sing. Good night trusty wherever imbue? Maybe that's what they do in Republika, so this guy chessboard, most iconic, Marina time and he has done and his son was not quite
from the same cloth as his dad. You know his dad business corner. Gruff guy in the sun was sort of a more mild guy here. Glasses. He went to college. He just more of verse, rebel type guy. He gets done with college and he's not really sure what he's gonna do with his life. So he sides. Well, you know my dad was regrettable, join records or goes to join the Marine corps, he can barely get in because he's got his eyesight bad. We are looking at his application or like wait. A second this, has always polar Junior, are you just poor Saunders idea, but we can get you in so he gets in. The marine corps goes through Austria school, ghostly, basic school and then its nineteen sixty eight. So he goes to Vietnam. And when he gets to Vietnam when on rotations in these three different spartan eventually goes on
operation, and he steps on a landmine gets severely wounded. He loses both of his legs, he lives a bunch of his fingers and dexterity in his hands most dies. I mean it system all that they were able to keep alive and he he He don't stay alive comes back, America. You know devastate for his dad the great Sonic Marine hero is breaking down when he sees his son chesty fuller was polar. You know eventually recovered from his wounds and rode up wrote a book. called fortunate Sun, which is an incredible book and in sort of you know he was hidden on down the path of alcohol and be in an hour I in hand and. Eventually comes out of that rights. This book the book is published and
In ninety ninety four He fell out of his wheelchair Injured himself went back, and spittle they put him painkillers. He got addicted to again and again, he killed himself and what was when I, when I did this series of park ass about this, what was crazy was ever single marine everything. oh Marine one hundred percent notions dollars, but. A vast majority of Marines that I talk to, as that podcast was comin out, did not know this. Story of the sun and It seems like the perfect away to educate people about the hardships that people face when they come home from morn, they obviously Louisbourg had a multitude of hardships as well, but it's
seems like their education, that we receive not just ass in the military, but then the families that there's things this is what we need to be looking out for an it. It seems. I give you Earl if you now are looking back at pictures. to be able to say man, I see this. I remember this these The is this like part of the things you're trying to share now so that people have better education about this kind of stuff. Oh my gosh yes, yes and again, I'm no scientists! I'm no doctor! I don't have a search under my bell, but I have one: I've lived and sitting my chair. been with this person for so long. You know we we added just like a meet a team guy, and then we got married and at sunset bust on anyway the dead. But you know I've known him almost his entire life and
then to watch him through his career and then to lose him in this way. I did see. All these lines and symptoms. Prior, I thought give Chad, I won I believe that if Chad thoughts thing was wrong with him that he was proud lay trying to hide it from me. I have girlfriends widows whose husbands took their life and they have said that their husbands express to them the struggle they were having him and what they were thinking about. You know their signs and symptoms? And I didn't have that and it's not I'll be the same for everybody or humans, world different pull biological dna, it might express itself differently, but if we could maybe educate people a little bit more about the toll service takes and. And to know that, even if your not killed in action or killed,
training or you do die by suicide, but you ve led very active career you are going to be impact dead, some than others and, let's real have a conversation about what might see in and when is it going to be really proud? When is it really a problem, so these deployments or add enough for Chad, Armenia's when he's comin home is it are you what what? What is the kind of things you noticing that he's. He was always super quiet guy, never the loudest sky in the room reserved but as time goes on here, even less
when we first, you know a teenage. We hung out with people and her friends and when we first got to the command we did that to and then over time we just didn't. We didn't do social thanks me. We almost never ever had any one over to our house. Ever he never wanted anybody in our house. He he he any says he likes to be home. He liked to be home with the kids and I kind of what you mention these icon with those dudes all the time like. I don't need it Hang out with them, because I just spent you know a rough trip Chicago with eminent home now, but it. What got really bad right away was asleep, and I think that that's true, a lot of guys is that You know sleep is so valued and its. If you think of your body, I like to think of it as a computer, and if you don't turn the Peter down every once in a while rebuke boot it gets jacked up, bright doesn't run well, that's would sleep provides all of us every single night and if you ve got a guy who had
his body hurts mean Chad fell off of a ladder pretty up and jacked is back up. He his neck up off of a couple, landings that he did. He was in the helicopter crash and ninety eight, so no, I mean his body, I say this because of so many other guys are like really broken in and he's probably the least seven in terms of broken but that's not what is by his beat up as most of MAR and then you add, on top of that, just the mental strain of war just deployments I'll sleep in over and some Shitty, ass village compound, you know your listening to blast coming in through the high cycle? I've just like missions going out going out going out. Ok being away her family in and even though I didn't call my husband and say hey this is
Ok, I need this navy. Maybe that's all other spouses communicates and now there might be stressed cause they got it go on back home with their family and so what at all that onto it and now, let's add at least for us, operators. The whole blast, injury concept and the guys have spent time and in a minute talk teams, because that's what I know but time. The teams, the last ten to twenty years. They one hundred percent in my opinion, are affected by blast injury because it from then breaching doors which they do not just overseas, but in training. You know he loves our policies, all that and that constant impact. The brain is terrible. It's time and so you got all this stuff. This guy's a come through any can't sleep. He can't get a good,
it's late, so there's nothing helping him for his body to at least try to recover something. So his went down that as he is he seen doctors. Anything as you talk nobody about trying to get Superman. Sometimes you know at some points they were given away like the sleep potions like there was nothing. Oh yeah I mean he. He did he try to do a lot of his own stuff, just like normal, regular remedy, stuff and better sleep hygiene, and then he was diagnosed with sleep up, lot of them have so they have a seat. Tat machine, I wire their are in their thirty. and fortys with sleep Albania doesnt that weird and then in the end and then what you also see in these guises? They get low testosterone and because of you know adrenal, glands or jacked out their quarters. All levels are jacked up, and so there testosterone is jacked up.
and I dont know how many of them are really willing to talk about it, but I think there's a really large number of deeds in I shall operations that are in their thirties thereon testosterone ended there. Not. I can't forever. One I mean I think, they're on it for, like the USA, Wanna be Jack there on it, because their tease really low and that's needed in a fire. Near so so you're seeing all this stuff is Is there a point where you start try to intervene yourself or his Chad, just like you know, I may again I'm comparing this to my experience, but I would never my wife? Didn't know if there was anything going on like eat with bad things are happening work my wife would not know. Well, and this is where, like regret, comes in and just kind of guilt, alot of guilt.
Because it's really easy to sit here now and list all the things I could have done. The better wife, but at the time I. Chad- and I are both the title people that we want to work, really hard at what we do. We want to be really really fricking good at it, and. Being married to him. While there are spouses and they choose to to whatever there maybe they work, maybe they stay at home with their kids. Everybody gets a choice right and my choice it was to work and go this whole fitness cross, footpath when you're married someone who's its Navy seal and does all these awesome things and get these a words. I was super proud of them, but I also wanted my own identity and I wanted my success and in a way
that driving force. Truthfully was always because I wanted him to be proud of me and so he's working hard. And teams, and I'm workin really hard on this whole cross fit side, and I I don't think it's that I didn't want to intervene. I just kind of thought we both were almost like handle or shit, if that's fair, to say like okay you're, Can your busy, you know you're moving up You know within your trooping squadron and the whole thing in I'm doing it over here and then we come home. We take our kids and. I guess I just didn't take enough for responsibility for that Is there some point where you say: okay, this was sort of way
you said, you said when you are looking through pictures. You said two years, where he died. You were like yeah. I looked back now in that this is a time period where there was definitely he was, you know over the edge. Yeah age. He really got a shorter fuse for sure, and it generally sent with me. It attended to be more with our kids. He would just snap which was really out of character for him and He would not listen and. Think Alatas valses say you know my husband doesn't listen to me. You're half doesn't listened. We ve been talking with heat it. It's like I had no idea. I was talking to her and I'll be sitting right next to him and. I've shared the story before but I think it really says something that he I said tat never listened to me like to look at me. I need you look at me, and I need you to focus,
and he said you know why, when you talk to me, I have to look around and thank well. That's not gonna, kill me and that's not gonna kill me, and I remember thinking so weird But now I realize, if you're kind of in this hyper state and you have a way to get out of it. You going deployment kind of have to stay on point right, heads always on a swivel email when you're in bed, you gotta be ready for the next thing, how turn that off when you come home, sure sure they ve really figured that out. so they come home and there still kind like overloaded Anne and that something that you notice cause you're talking to him and he's like not responding in yeah and the pictures to you. Prior and the pictures, when I look at it, he just had a completely deaf look on his face, it was almost like, like
pictures, it was almost like. I'm gonna kill you. You know like that whole like it just is just not like him. that's the interesting thing that you pointed out is like you ve known him, since he was whenever fifteen and so you see this entire arc of a human, whereas you know if you, if you caught out. If you met him in two thousand and ten you, would see this much smaller picture. That may be paint such a drama. A change in the way he in his character and where he acted right, But you saw him since he was fifteen years old and you know, and then you see this. This whole story play out and so becomes real clear there all oh being said. Since your with him every day. You know your ear, you around him all the time. So there's also that that thing where
you know you don't notice that someone did. I like your notice at my hair, is going right right. Look like my wife. Doesn't she might notice it now, but in overtime cycle, your hair with great today right, it's like a happens gradually over time, and so there's some of that. I'm sure a play too. Where no wonder there's three degrees of change. Right Max deployment there's four degrees of change. The next deployment there's five degrees of change. Ok, so you cup in sixth appointments, that little bit each time you may not notice it so dramatically, but from the the amount that he's on different course mentally is a dramatic. Yeah and I'm trying to take it through chunks of our life and NGO backers. our childhood, but more when we were at tea me how he was with his fellow teen guys in peers in the way that we interacted with them and no one
out of the military, the way that he was, and you know we had friends and did all the things normal couples and families do and then coming back. In and then being at the command for the first couple years, it was way and then slowly he just it less and less socially he's a little more cut off and then as it got farther along AEGIS, whistle no quieter and You know the last year or you of his wife I sat on my gosh. I don't even know how much he smiled. And no arm. no no him say like hey. I gotta talk to somebody now now. Which I mean I,
I'm guessing its changing now, but I mean that's the culture from butts. From basic seal training: dont, go to medical pride don't go to medical, don't talk! Anybody if you got a stress for action, your leg, let it break don't go to medical hobble around as long as you can dont. Like that's and it gets no make anybody. Hope of course, what an instructor say up go to medical check in if you got if you're feeling, but the DE culture is It is the same in every year, it's it's! Every units like this, I mean and its special operate every unit every unit and alter socket up don't say anything, don't go to medical hand. Like you said, handle your shit. Yeah, I think the geysers too.
I don't know what they think. I don't know if they think. Maybe this is just me like. What's up with me and my fucked up, I don't want to tell my buddies him might be a little fucked up or They don't want to hurt their service or They just want to ignore it and hope it all go way. They think they'll, just like fossil through it idle. What they think. but somehow we need to shift the loot needle a little bit to recognise. You do all this training I mean millions of dollars are spent on these guys. You guys to train millions of dollars and and I mean Chad was a sniper in Freefall- Jump master you know name all the things and you took the two to teach him that. So? Why, when you take the time to also teach them about
maybe some ways that they're gonna be potentially impacted after multiple years of service. Its on twenty one and right now. What about to see or people that have served their entire career posts. Nine eleven, this suicide epidemic, is going away, it's only ramping up! Yet you never know when it's gonna start off talking about this, that that's it an action that I made as I was like listening to your story. Hearing it we ve made all these developments in all these different wars, from the problems that the wars cause right. And yet I even talk about like that. These current wars, the prosthetics, issued a prosthetic socket people have now their amazing. You know, can do all these incredible things and we make these massive advancements again This is just like over here in this dark corner, not not
really being addressed now? I take it back there. There are. There are things that are happening now that they are starting to dress. I know that they're doing like baseline studies are guys. I don't know what you know about the stuff Jason but they're doing like baseline studies. brain studies on guys they can kind of tell where the rats they can see what kind of impact they ve had over over time. So I think maybe it is starting to come to light a little bit now, but Certainly I dont think that culture has. Change to it yet because hard to takes it, takes time and effort to change culture, it would crush the recruitment process, wouldn't it we have known for years because of history and wars that when you go serve your country, there's likelihood you could die you nor choosing to serve in die potentially by your flag, but it would really crush recruitment if insert Army Navy, whoever
and you say: hey you, wanna be a seal. You gonna be a green break. You gonna be a and and you're gonna com, you gonna, do your service, you're gonna, do call shit, you're, gonna, jump out of aeroplanes, you're gonna, shoot guns and you're gonna kill bad guys, and if you make it by the end of it, you may so- have some pretty severe mental health issues and some brain injury are you with that You know it's hard for them to pony up and say that, because a man is economic, sure number? I think people still show up for that I mean it's like as everybody when you, when you do this you're like wasn't. It happened to me I mean I I otherwise not me, I did the cake form before every deployment and I was fully. prepared, as you can be, as a spouse, in the world, we are living enemy. We attended many funerals and those last ten years that my home
might not come home and if every day come home, he's gonna, come home and a coffin with the five over it. That's not what I got. so, where does it, whereas it go towards towards the end? What do you see and towards the end the biggest things was always started, putting on weight, and you know he would choke because It is over forty knees. You don't love me more, didn't heavy, which would never be the case, but a third runway but
really started to happen in a pretty drastically. I would say the last six months that I can look back now is he got really puffy his face? Got puffy almost this sounds terrible, like caviar scene of fish in water instead and its kind like bloated. That's how his face God, and jam, and I He also is weird this, as I would always kind of kiss him on his temple and heat Smell the same, and I thought Weird. I've learned since then a lot more the way the brains effective and to go back to that kind of. Systemic derailment it. When you have a blast injury, you know you it's it's a wave right goes through the air and basically, your brain shakes up and I'd your skull and and that's what it's built to do:
that's why we have a school. That's how it's made, but it's not me that over and over again, so when that happens and swelling in the brain and then starts to its effect, being else because the brain is connected to the rest of your body in you see where not all hormones get to rail, but you know you're your metabolism gets jacked up so the guy's start to gain and when your metabolism gets jacked up and also messes with the key tones in your body which would be like you know, factoring in with your urine, indifferent things in that's for changes the way they smell. And the puffy nesses, because well sure if he's got brain injury and there's any swelling or there's just systemic swelling in the body, it's gotta go somewhere, and so we start to notice it in the face and again. I didn't know any of this stuff prior and in that,
not to say someone listening, you you sit there and you look over her husband. You, like my husband's phases, puffy, but there's some to be said that peat. Yes, d is a genuine thing. I believe I also believe it's over used a lot, and this is a whole step. Further then PTSD, will it also you're talking about it's? It's it's not just hey you're faces puffy. We have an issue. No it's this this this this this, you add all these things together and that many red flags yeah, then that's all you ve got the the being short tempered Hey you smell, different, hey you're, not parking. Hey. You. your ear. You're not working out as much as you suggest asked, are adding all these red flags together and it's like ok, we are we have. We have to address this well and in winter,
think about the different parts of the brain. You got your Berlin big brain, your monkey brain deep inside. That's what tells you what safe? dangerous is why we don't walk into the street? I we know that's dangerous. The prefrontal cortex kind of is how do I feel about that? So, if If the brain is affected? That's when we see them, you know the show. Fuse, how do I feel three aggressive, maybe I'm sad different emotions, but when sprain injury and we ve heard see tee, right, punch drunk and have helped, our guys get it to our guys are getting in her face ass, your little scarring and that's almost psych- think of Lagos Ricochet almost bullets through the brain and that's what comes from the blast, injury and that's able to penetrate that deep monkey brain of like is,
safe for me. That's why guys make decisions that are really really bad weather? It's you know drinking too much Infidelity or you know, I have a friend who he's good now, but he. How does daughter in the car and had been drinking and was speeding well far above the speed limit any father would know. None of that is good. but he was unable to make the right decision so. Yeah so sorry to see, look back. I can see how how he had changing and I I've shared with Jason to Chad, climb now Aachen cobbler in January and of two thousand eighteen.
That's the second highest summit and the world is the highest in South America in Argentina, and he climbers it's a little over twenty three thousand feet, and I we'll never now, but I You believe that climbing that mountain exhausted did any of his brain injuries that he had and I've. Since talk to me, doctor who I respect. Highly she's been studying blast injuries in Kosovo soldier since the early ninetys, or at least that's who she started with, and I asked her that and she you know against didn't test Chad's brain? But she was pretty confident that that was probably the case too yeah, I mean what. How long was that? That's gonna, be here a couple weeks, at least of a three Ellen evolution yeah at least lack of all too high strenuous yeah,
and so now you ve got this brain. That's injured, wheat! What? Why Urges ceiling in the body blood blood flow right. You have surgery, call me surgery. One should get up once you move your niecks, we gotta get blood flow to ex when a t, alright brains, injured, wait, nominee twenty three thousand feet and I'm gonna be without oxygen. It really means teal itself. One of my room guys go through other hyperbolic chamber right, which is just to pressure oh to ITALY, opposite of climbing twenty three thousand foot mountain and it provides a lotta healing a lotta healing two guys so too to do the opposite of that mean it seems asked her about that, and she said I said that's something that would help, and she said yes, but not initially. After injury, I mean we're talk different things to your turnabout guys been back for a while and We do see people who have a little bit exist.
raided says symptoms: a higher elevation, my best friends husband. They live in Colorado. And I said to this doctor. I said what would you say if there the twenty year Navy seal veteran, whose done upwards of I will be ten deployments without now probably does have some some Pray blast, injury and lives at, eight to ten thousand feet and before I could even finish the sentence. She just shook her head. No, no she's kept shaking her head. No and she said bad bad, very bad. I'd tell him to move. What was Chad's like debrief points On the mountain climbing, what if what you say about it. he said it was really hard really hard. think, use really proud of himself for doing it. But when
he came home and walked in the door. I mean he was so skinny. Just do you know move fifteen twenty pounds audibly And he came in and he just said, baby those that was really fork and hard, and I Didn't really ever hear him say that about anything I dislike out. Will you did it, no good job and he said Dan always next nowadays, plan. and when was at that was in January of three thousand eighteen yeah. In about the interactions with the kids. At this point the family, like, is it you're, you notice and more is it? Is it I told out ah well. At this point its we have teenagers and I remember say in him. They don't even want to late payment
with us or be home. Anything and he's like. I don't wanna hang on my parents. When I was fourteen seventeen, we did take a family trip that of two thousand eighteen- we went to the Grand Canyon and again I looked back at those pictures and He definitely was not there, but he wasn't on the trip. I mean he. Obviously there, but we we state in a couple different cities. We cannot jumped around Arizona for a while on in our sane and this really nice hotel and he didn't want to leave the room knots. At its June in Arizona, so it is very, very hot, but You know I didn't really want to come down to the fool. He's gonna sit in the room and you're like a game. We're on a family vacation. One time he was sitting down by the pool and ice
from a distance, and he just was kind of like leaned over the chair, dislike zone and out just tea was just now their nicety. I walked up ass a day. Would he do in these? Like yeah? Does things like that? He just wasn't. I dont know what I was thinking about. so years ago from their well and then the timeline yeah. So he. he this year and two dozen eighteen, I think as when it started he switched squadron, so he was moving around with the command, and he.
he had. Somebody didn't think that this is what he was supposed to be doing I remember him sand. I just don't think this is right. I don't think this is really the path I'm supposed to be gone. again, he didn't really share a lot with me and he and I sad wool. You're someone who's always accomplished every go. You ve ever sat for yourself. You may go, you go, do it so I had this goal for himself. He had Was in the process, I guess of attaining the goal and Maybe this is just the first time you change mine, like you just want to do that's ok, you can. You can decide to change your mind and he was like will have spent much time and money on I'm doing this and again he didn't tell me any details and he said because I know I'm not really telling you much, but it makes me feel good to talk about it and I was like ok cause. If he's gonna talk, I'm gonna listen and Yes, as something was bugging him- and I don't-
I dont know why, but something was really Buckingham and. The beginning of October. He started hanging up his words and things in the house which he never did before. So we had a lot of guys all plaques awards is a silver stored, Navy, marine corporate metal and bronze star in all the things and we had them all framed years ago, but he never hung him up and he just thought really weird Tang, that set up in your house because he sighed wits someone's gonna come in the house in its just like look at me, and I was thought that was weird that he had to struggle with that. But yeah. He hung up in our stairwell to our house so maybe like you and your wife marriage is a compromise right and I thought you know almost no one comes in our house anyway, and if someone
to come in our house only they way they would see him as if they went up our stairs basically tore bedrooms But in my mind I just thought well at least hanging a mob, so they're not gonna, get like broken or busted or anything, and he talked about. hanging somali flag on one wall. What you. I've seen when you come in the front door- and I just remember thinking that so weird. And I thought he was really messing with Bee, when I turned round a kind of laugh, I realize you, U serious, he's dead series and he's like. I guess that's down her like. Well, maybe I I asked him if he was okay, I remain kneeling down in front of my salary, okay and he sat down, but there were
if there was any sort of like first feeling it was like he's off. I would have never thought three weeks later. He would take his life, but that's what happened so it's interesting and, while like I won't share her story, I m my other girlfriend Well tell you who knew that when was struggling about two months prior. There was just like a switch to months and he was gone. So for me I think it was three weeks and he was gone. I think they just This, like threshold and and I dont know how figure out where that is: that's gonna be half to left scientists, but but There is some threshold that happens in and then the switches flipped.
And this is still going to work- I mean this Lee kneel down in front of them? You say: are you ok, he says yeah do by it you want to buy it? I did buyer and this again is it is one of those posts, death struggles, when someone takes our life, you military or not. You are- With so many questions- and I think that's That'S- that's the beast to not have answers- and I believed him as there is nothing I didn't tell him. So I believed that if there something he needed it tell me. He would tell me. And then he goes into work gap when in a work. Yet I had worked trap the week before This is when it gets really weird say to work trap and
the drive there and he spoke to come home on Friday and he called Thursday, they Thursday used had cars, Runnel cars out there and he said: hey, I'm coming home early. Can you pick me up from the rental car place rubber and I go over and pick him up. He. We had to take her. I had to go, get me son from a football game, so I drive and back home any instilling comes now so TAT had been doing had had a concealed carry licence and he'd been wrong with a concealed. Carry you know when he's home around town for probably there last year or two and again I didn't really think much of it because I mean more crap is deemed guy, and- and this is America I hope we come home and he instantly goes to the safe and gets his gun. And I say it was just kind of frantic- and I Do you realize that we're goin on.
school to pick up hats and he said I'm not get in the car and it was very like short, and I was like ok, so we go no big deal, I in the whole time he's in the city just like he just seemed uncomfortable. I learned later that, and I dont know the details of whatever he was doing, but he was in a course, and he withdrew from the course he never quit any. He never like stepped down from any thing. I've ever known. so that conversation about I'm not sure I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. That came later that night, when he got home in, This was on a Thursday and on Friday. I had to leave to go. I was can now in Raleigh. I could drive there for seminar across from the and we talked about it,
he needed to call his doctor because he felt like he just needed check in like maybe his testosterone was off. Maybe something like you wasn't feeling good earlier that week he told me that he had some headaches and, like some stomach ass had said he didn't feel good which again never said, I dont know if ever he said how feel good I mean he didn't say it like that, but he would never say. That's me, buddy, You didn't feel good, and so the deal was when I laughed, he was gonna the point with his doctor and who's gonna make an appointment to talk to his boss, about whatever his work situation was to try to figure out what is paths, Kennedy and. I left. I told her kids hey, you know, dad's kind of stressed out just so now. He's got a lot on his plate right now and when I left I'm leaving Virginia Beach, and I just have this link got and like pit and my stomach like I just felt like shouldn't be leaving him, but I did
And went to rally worked on Saturday and on Sunday, Kingsley called in and said the gods. And really weird and he's just lane on landing and he's just staring at the ceiling and I just I just that's just weird: that's just weird and I was for hours way and I had works doleful seminar in I just knew at home, so this when our finishes and I get in the car as quick as I can in and try to how many called me at one point, and he just said I love you And I kind of Latham, I said I love you too, and he No, I mean I really love you. I love you so much. I love you so much. Sarah
And he knew I loved it when he would say my name and I said you know, I love you too, but can I call you back? I really bad headache an honest allows just really trying to get home so fast food. a couple hours later I get home in go and Housing upstairs and he's run Jim below the bad for something and I come in and he turned to me and I hug him omen Jason. He kind of dislike like. Collapses in my arms little bed, I just heard them for a second, and I I just think it my mind. Well, I'm home now sign near you and I'm gonna try to just idle. think at the time that I needed necessarily keep you safe. I thought I just had to keep you close in and make you feel better n
So I got I had to get a shower and, I said, come talk to belong in the shower and when I went around in the bathroom to start the shower, he wasn't it I and I looked out there door, and he had just like collapsed, like face first on the bed kind of like the letter t like arms out of size has a society like I just exhaustion and I said what would you do in command comment and so get Michelle? and he sittin on the bathtub and he's just then over a niece cottage. Hands on either side of his head and he's holding this hair and he's kind of like grip and his hair, and I kept him What's wrong, you know, what's going on here, talk to me and he just got to say- and I know.
anyway I asked him to pass me a towel and he looked at me and he was he was not it wasn't there like his eyes were just like. I was just like looking straight through his eyes. And I just laid down with them in bed and I just thought if I could keep him next to me, then then he would feel better. But that wasn't the case so I woke up in the middle of the night and he was standing there dressed. Looking out the window, and I said what are you doing in here you said I don't know I said, will come, lay back in bed with me and he did, and the next morning. Early,
I woke up. I I woke up to see just him walk out the door. I saw like the back of his shoulder leaf leave. Ah I do it's like I couldn't talk. It was like I couldn't get I don't know if it's just cause. I was sleepy or wider. I wasn't really processing like oh he's, leaving right now and then I couldn't find em so I woke up me now, a little while later Annie you, I couldn't find em. So I looked around and I thought well maybe he went for a walk. Maybe you went for a run. Maybe you went to go, get coffee. I tried calling you you didn't answer. I text him. He didn't answer and went round in my head. China, China figure or it could be got my car at one point I'll drive around and then I thought where MIKE were literally like which direction would I drive what's happening, that Lee for work, useless, illegal work trap, but I figured
He was also there to talk to his boss. So no did he go to work. I just didn't know. I call this dad but because he was so weird the night before I just thought it was weird that he left and you didn't say, bye. He never didn, not kiss me good bye. Never he actually would do. This I'd be upstairs and he'd say: ok, bye I'll see you later and he would slammed the door in the house. To see me. run down fury. Slow down the steps because he knew I would get so spun up if he laughed and in cosmic of eye. So I dont know what I was thinking I just know I wanted. I just had, confirmation of where he was- and I only called the command and to the site there and. she asked me a bunch of questions.
One of the questions she asked was, how does he feel about and he asked he said, chats bosses name. And I thought that was really weird question, because Another thing I really love Devout Chad as he is he will never said anything bad about people. So you know: if like you, I didn't like you, I didn't really now he just that's. That's how you walked in. as I have no idea. But she you just kind of- let me think, he's on his way to work. You know, like he's, probably left in his on this training trip in a little while later act. I had talked to her again, and I said you know everything's here his two precious here his medicine is here is some glasses are here. He wouldn't leave with all that. Stuff, and she told me dude
the privacy of his job. It would be likely that he wouldn't be answering his cell phone and I said ok, so like the wife that I was I kind of, just thought: okay, so he must have gone and whose is driving trip up the coast. so. I thought okay hook, you supposed to be back the next day and. So, I think of it. that in my kids came home from school that day, and they said where's, dad, and I said oh, I don't know- I think he left on this work trip. He should be home tomorrow and I am saying that almost feel like I'm lying because I don't believe it I'm trying to believe it, because that's what I was holding and why wouldn't you right. So this point you know he disappears. Monday morning, probably I'm saying some
between three and six, a m, and It goes by. We started demolition on our house. We return renovations that started that day and Tuesday. comes- and I were my house sits near a lake, you can see it from my front porch and I went for a run and In this way, I am sharing it'll make sense in a minute, but I I for run and I ran past the laying down the bike path. All around and I was gonna sit at the lake firmness and of October. It's Virginia Beach. The web, the weather, was really beautiful. That day I was gonna sit on the bench at that lake, but I did because wanted to go inside and shower, and curl my hair and look nice for winning at home. So I did that and my son author Friends House he's going to play going a football game, as I was porn back in a psych from work called and said, MA am husband written report to muster. Were
I mean the alert and I said, that's bad, that's bad! That's very bad and I pretty sure hung up the phone on em and when I got it in my car, so now car. Was it some in this cul de sac near by and in its facing that lake, And my houses on the left and as I'm walking up to my house, the head contractor from the runaway, since comes out new, says, Miss Sarah theirs. Police officers at your back door. I I called my best friend Courtney, her husband and my husband, wherein binds together and I said, You need to come to my house right now and I just hung a footman and I didn't know what was going on. I just thought something is like seriously
and I went in my front door and out my back door or the way the houses, and there were two cops in my garage and nearer we stood out sighed the door and they said. man do you know where your husband is, and I said no, I can't find I haven't been able to find him and I asked him they could move farther down into the street because we were right underneath my daughter's window and I knew that she was upstairs. Just in one or two b, I just I just didn't know what was happening We moved out into the street and this cop just Opens its door anyway dig something I have his car and you just turn any said. Now, I'm really sorry to tell you, but we found your husband. He took his life.
Now is alone so around about that time. Court corny pulled up, sorry, sorry, pulled up, and I think I was screaming and she bear hugged me from behind and I think we are pretty much took her to the ground. I think, and She said you dont know that so she screamed at him. You don't know that.
Will you taking his life at that lake and he could see or house from where he was at least that's what they tell me so my daughter's upstairs in her room. Health and she can see and hear everything and my son is out of friends house. and I M pretty sure my neighbour went to pick him up. So he told me son, so I, like you, have to understand, like logistically speaking, there's a lot of things that just don't make sense. Where my car was
I got out of it and that guy said, the cops were at the back door if they had just found his body. I didn't see anybody over by the lake. It had been like thirty six hours since I couldn't find em we went back later and I and I do think he was at the lake- and this is why.
We went back later and in our neighborhood. So many people have cameras on their house and there's footage of Chad and the bike path that lines that lake. If you walk to it kind of teas and if you go left it takes you all the way up to the main road that the cars go in and out of the neighborhood, and I think we we timed it so that cameras caught him walking that way and that would have been right. At the same time he would have watched our kids leave for school. So when I went when this is happening when this is getting like when when when he leaves in the morning- and you start thinking like where is he
Is there any party, your brain, that's thinking he could kill himself, no! So well. I take that back. I did ask Chad's dad I was trying to get into the safe guess. I guess there was a pardon me that did by this the heat this was a little farther on in the morning. So when I first couldn't find him, I just couldn't find up and then, after a while he might have been his dad. That said, have you checked the safe, and so it took me a minute trader, number that combo, and I got in there and to my I urge all the guns were there, but apparently they weren't. I guess the reason I'm asking you that is because no vote
his conversations in my about my life with various people at various times. And the conversation is something like you know. You know that little exploration of wait, I'm worried about him and then they'll be some kind of an explanation MIKE. What do you mean? Well, I'm just worried like he might kill himself and then the conversation is. He would never do that right. So that idea of weak we know, we think we know what someone's going through. We think we know what's goin on their heads and I think that we don't know we don't always know- and you know come he disappears. You know like what that rose. Thinking like what was that in your head of like hey, you know what he's.
You know he probably is going to see his parents raised. Beginner gonna go friggin surfing or whatever he's gonna do, but this crazy idea that he might I'll kill himself it seems so unbelievable. You know for someone outside he's been through whenever tat appointments he's done all this is done. This done that we got kids, we gotta house. We can always things going on all these things going on in our lives. That's not It's not gonna happen. often times were caught off guard by people. off guard, I know you mention a couple of France where there was Real signs of you know: hey now, Things are going good for the individual, but but A lot of times are yours: there's been some suicides in those your community where there was no
indication at all or of any kind, and And it seems like we're condition to sort of not even think that it's a feasible think. I guess I you know I was just as bad is as. The military makes the guys out to be because. As I said in his funeral to me, Chad was unbreakable. Mean to me he had done all these really
amazing things in his life. He he's he everything he did. He did well everything he did and see. All you know, Great ridiculous, hide GPA when he's going night school and he has a wife and a baby in really good and snow. for school and went and got his problem. Manager, licence, certification, all that in the business world and whatever filling the blank climbing mountains qualifying for the Crosbie Games like insert whatever he just was so unbreakable to me and- and I guess that's part of my. What I want people to recognize with your person as that
Leah, their Navy seals, but at the end of the day or just dude, you know your deeds and humans and or the heart and conscience, and dads and husbands and brothers and sons and not unbreakable. No book written by a guy named David Hack workers of Vietnam Korean WAR veteran. he talks about is the fact that, like people different right and as you much People are different and something's impact, different people different ways, and he described that does up- that people have an end. When it gets filled up with, like the stress on the trauma, once it overflows. I get it if you if it overflows? That's it like you, you did
and different people have different size, cops and some people gotta freakin, five guys job and some people got a tea cup and everything in between, and I compare that to another war, veteran Dick winners, whose character Banda brothers years in that, but he's got a book about about war as well, and is big thing, was like when that cop They use a different metaphor, but when the cup started filled up. You need it, the person out of the situation, you get him out of the situation. The cup, like the water will dissipate and go back down and they can continue. They can go back. They can continue to perform their job, same thing. If you let the cop overflow, then it it's it can't put the water back in There- and I I we start. When I talk to people about this kind of stuff. I talk
at the check engine light in a car right if the chair and might comes on, you get in for a service. You you stop driving it and his arms you taken for service- and it gets them sometime in the engine causing you put in fresh oil. Whatever the engines be ok, but if the in my comes on, and you just keep running, that engine gonna burn that engine out and you can yield destroy the engine and yeah. I think that all these things come into play and that's what makes this so difficulties everyone's just got a different size cup it's got a you know, different time that their check engine might comes on and how much is going to take to get that thing called back down and it makes it makes it so challenging universally say: okay! Well, here's the limitation that people have so, I think, you're. Doing talking about how to identify that engine might so people can see it and then
also trying to help people to recognise that you got a kind of you. Gotta, do your best to see your own check engine later when that freakin thing comes on. You gotta do but about it and if you don't do something about it, you're gonna blow the engine and then you're, no good yeah, as we said a couple times that the guys don't worn a worry, the spouse or, I say, spouse her first responder, like Who is your go to person right. They don't wanna worry the spouse. But if I, to ask some one that was struggling right now. Maybe sitting there and there they thought about taking their life and they say I don't want to bother my spouse at all. I would it would be better for her if I wasn't here in and I can't speak to the relationships. People have but sitting on this side of it. Sorry I, like total crier today,
He didn't even give me the chance to help the hurts, so it will It's on one hand, you can say: well, he don't want Neil, you know he he just get one of cause. You any worry, but I mean look at where I am now. Did he not think that this wouldn't mind devastate me for Ever he didn't even give me the opportunity to like try to help your job the Harper comes in when you ve got guys who Your your bread, not to talk about this stuff is constantly bread in the interesting part. For me, in this journey of learning story in my wife, Emily not getting to know sir, and her we really wow and in going really into this issue- is theirs
Finally, something that happens to your brain right. It's this not something where it's not oh, you know. I just got this this, inexplicable weakness going on costs that's what it is in the teams right, it's like all that you too if he goes and does this and but if you, if you blow, back out few. You know you get shot or if you do, you know things that are acceptable. Injuries in oh by just by team room standards of sorts right and the thing that's that is like My best friend in basic training, killed himself. And I didn't unpack that at all right His dad was general and with something in my training. It's just you know I couldn't sittin in full about this at all. It's like days a thunder right, win Cole gets Tom
gets injured right I mean the injured driver goes way over there and nobody ever wants to be around them, and me personally. I had just kind of take that and say: aren't I a job to do in. He was weak, good friend of mine, and he just that stack had happened to him and there's something I told myself was theirs. something that he was born with. That made him. Do that in this just kind of brought it to life in when you the Chad story. If you tat, you didn't hear the story, because you that's the word of caution to the guys in our profession ended to millions of Americans out there right this idea that born with this or you're, not mean, situation brought. This brought this out right. It's chronic stress, chronic pain. not from injuries and in just the way that you train the wave it mean it takes its toll.
And then that leads to all sorts of things and The brain is something that we dont really study that well study at much at all and oh it's one of those things were able to kill This virus almost a year later, with a huge national surge cause. We could give yet no matters, This is something that is just kind of still floating around over. Here I mean what gonna take what we're losing our some of our most valuable people on in our country. right to do something that we just I understand, but what I know my mental shift is to say there was one bit of weakness in Chad Wilkinson. There was something that is inexplicable- that we just have not explained yet that that choice, changed in sight of him some decision making process, you know it. It just changed We have a long way to go yet there
famous for ballplayer from San Diego Ganem Junior, say. However him oh yeah the most beloved problem, San Diego charger, maybe even the most beloved San Diego athlete total stud. You know a b, Debbie Human, like super nice guy. He was just in justice, incredible he will make in from their own jobs. But yet everything- and you know that that made me think of this. Sir, when you're like talking about Chad and would have talk to people that, like our art, depressed straight up, depressed their heads and in like this, their heads in a storm ahead like darkness and in it's really like from the outside
Look at him and you think outweigh man. It's you know you're in this bad situation, but it's only it's only just right around you and if you come over here, a little bit you'll be out of the storm like come on over, but from their perspective, no matter where they look. It's like darkness, and they just see the storm, and they don't see that if they Move forward more, they could go a little bit further and they what's that everybody is on the outside, going a like. It's ok, man, it's supersonic, brightened like there's a rainbow over here and everything's cool disk, just move over here a little bit and they can't be. They don't see it. They see. If they can't see, they can't see it because it's there, that's what they're that's what's around them and so light it just causes them to do things that don't make any sense to ask us we're looking for me outside going. He like Sonny it's funny. They can't see it and it's like try to convince people, the aid,
it's almost impossible, seems almost impossible to try convinced someone that storm that they see three hundred and sixty degrees around them. Funder, lightning, wins, that's what they see to convince them that re man right over here. It's sunny and its beach day and its eighty degrees organ. It's ok. They make they can't and it's so hard to get them out of that cloud, I think that's where people get stuck, and it's so frustrating from the outside, because We can see all that other good stuff. They just don't have the ability to see any more. So I think it's like a combination, you you got legacy junior, say: oh, what better life that I have set up for himself. You know he's got every that a person could want.
And yet in this cloud in it it consumes a sort of Chad right We know the great family gray eyes. He had respect his honor. Everything it doesn't get better than that. Right I mean that's, that's did the currency union. Line of line of work, won't you wanna be respected in any want them to think of me. He is doing a good job and you know You look look at where we went what he did. He had that and when see it. There's there's just something: there's something else going on absolutely an insult well, when you kind of look at me now, so what responsibility. Moving forward right, I mean there's some command responsibility and not sitting her pointing fingers backwards. I'm sitting saying like you're part of we want to do is- is educate the next, the next and I know you're huge on this as well, and I mean it
hardest thing. Do: sometimes it takes someone out of the game say you know We started this in football. You ve got the concussion measurements in. If you get a concussion, you gotta come out and you know your star players, still gotta, come out in You start to look at like how are we doing this in the military? You know we kind of the military is not a social experiment, because it's not bought The truth of the matter is that get into these especial units like TAT grew in Dalton ISAF right, I mean eat your job is to go wind wars. I mean This is not requires mean the amount. An alpha mail is, it is a very special kind of thing. In the history of history, requires a special type, of training. It requires all sorts of things that make it very. Difficult to Stop them from wanting to keep going after that, you just give you take were breed
get into them. So if you take miracle alpha males and you make them more alpha- I mean it's it's white, impressive in Ukraine, these units in their story units deaf, grew your team six meet the seals these are deserve it very impressive insult how do we? How do we? How do we protect the guy's, though,. And I say this from a two way: street unite. It's one thing is here and say: oh you know we gotta know that, if we're not sleeping while that there's something wrong and that's going to be a problem like ok, I'm, unlike my team and I get got it right, take another pill right work out a little harder, maybe I'll sleep very good. You know and it it's like, That's, not gonna work. It's not gonna work. It's at some point. we have to. We have to put more of it. Systematic approach in here to mental health. We done that in S.
afraid of a new start to treat green brays like professional athletes, which is great? You know you got lockers we ve got. You know the fish, trainers you get physicals checked out, you get all these things and you know. If we don't, then it's too much of the losses in vain and they definitely are moving in that direction in in the teams seal teams like the the sign studies that are doing they are there, absolutely move in that direction. We now have whole organizations within the organisation that are focused on that and the money there, The lessons have definitely been learned. That's great em in Chad, Chad killed three years ago, like they do not move it. We're not moving fast enough the d. You know the budget is for veterans whose prevention, it's ten point, two billion. Well, that's a big number. That is a big number right in
the visa gets just shit on all over the place. Right deviate is actually trying. I mean if you will budget there. Some trying to Are trying experimental, stuff, antidepressant nasal spray right virtual reality based suicide prevention training. I mean these. If things like they are. There are things that, we are trying we as it a nation and its at some point. You know. the guys that are close to the guy's an end. Ass. I do want to exclude the female most members either, because this affects them as well in your you're, actually, statistically more likely to commit suicide. If you did not deploy, then if you did explained arrogant so If you did not deep, I mean it saying you know
because you are on seal team six or just because you saw intense, combat, write that down not a predictor of suicide. It might be. Predictor of you know TB, I and in those kinds of things because All you do is explosive breach charges next, two doors all day long, I mean commanders to figure out a way to limit that stuff. You can only do this so many times I got it, you don't want the first one to be on. You know the house downrange, you have you have to work with live explosives, but but at the same time you you can't you, can't just go through the same. petitions a million times, and you know I mean the other parties. You have your your team time and you roll off a team in there's, always guys behind you and in this is read it to America. First off in credit to judge HU? We are, we sign up and we say, send me, and there's a lot of us that that answer that.
When you're on that, when you're living that life in Europe these deployments doing this cool stuff. You know what a miss any of it like this my slot nobody's coming in behind me, and you know you sure you told me this you're, like you known, the truth of the matter, is there's there's a lot more seals right behind you, and so commanders have this. After at their discretion, they have this disability to kind of. How do we we Take a look back now right, remove The politics about you know the words are ending. Will those aren't gonna end for the tier one unit ever right but at the same time we have an operational knock there is less going on. There is less work we have this ability to kind of reset a little bit the way that were the way that were approaching this yeah yeah. Well. this kind of conversation. Right here is the thing that can have: we move in the right direction and that's the main reason that you're sitting here today is
try and move this in the right direction and and you're. Actually, when let's talk about how you doing that, let's talk about you know the actual charities and stuff that you guys are going to try and ways or raise awareness So one thing Jason, Meyer, partner, nine is the work out in honour of my husband. We refer to it as chat, one thousand ex again I spoke about this at his funeral as he properly climate mountain. He did it by doing step up on a box and he did it on a twenty inch box with a forty five pound pack working up to a thousand a period of time and then once again air than he would just like compound a thousand every couple days, Chad with super disciplined. He was incredibly focus in every goal that he had and- and that's definitely something that I am trying to have live within me. This work
I talked about at his funeral and so more or less organically kind of just became a thing right day was their cause France, where the gastro is area and they just did it on their own- just cause our challenge right. Let's go, thousands epochs forty five minutes, man stuff. Let's do it and then fast forward, all stop you there. I won't speak for Dave, but I will say dumbing down. you Chad they serve, they serve together and he doesn't know how to process that. You know I mean he's not a process. The loss of a friend finally to suicide, and so you know- he's trying to do It is amazing how many people want to help how many people. This is affected, I mean Chad's life ripple effect, Huge, but everybody has this- that there are some did this this epidemic is touch so many people, Nobody knows how to deal with it,
nobody knows how jammies am I supposed to do twenty to push option from my phone and and publish it on social media means that helping time it is not the number right, in an accurate seven seventeen which is, which is better. Just so many people want to want to help. So hang Dave, for part mean I know he he wanted due to honour Chad and I think you wanted other people to honour Chad as well and in that's yeah, so so weep abolish Chad, one thousand acts into an annual fundraiser and. There. There are many spouses, like myself gold, star spouses and they have gone on in their skulls tournaments in there's, five Kazan there's the like and they raise monies for different organizations. This work out, specifically, we want around veterans day because, while
its Chad's face- and I have kind of stepped into the role of sharing his story. For me, it has less to do with with Chad Wilkinson and more to do about the struggle that our veterans, currently have, and so why not really focus this around veterans Day when that's what we're doing honouring those surveying and create a platform for them to talk to one another. We did last year and it was kind of a late rule out and were like. Let's just like do this and see what happens and very we really had no speculation, and I can't even express, Howl hum We were by the response, and I mean it did went global, went around the world people. People did this work out. I think the beauty of it is anybody can do this work out,
because a step up is not technical, we're not snatching national muscle ups, you know anybody can We must step up and then obviously we scale it, and you know you have this huge fitness background. You are well aware. Not everyone has to do the Twentieth Box now already have it. That way, but being able to go, do our work out In honour of some one and our military that that generally brings people gather anyway, because they want to kind of pay their humble respects, but the potential that it could bring for people to have a conversation Whether its you're doing the step ups- and maybe you start to realising that our time frame where your brain does go, what do you think about? You know your struggle? The person you're doing it for the friend you lost. Do you do with
friend, and you guys can talk to each other lifing Jason, and I confirm that once you, yet only about five hundred? U dont really talk anymore by it. The idea of doing it with a friend the symbolism there is to me everybody needs somebody. Have you put together technical question have you put together like a ramp up programme for people to do you know two months out, do a hundred and then what break down like the others. Marathon programming thing is where he had ass. Yet I just jargon that Graham yeah, yeah and so in. A part of the bigger message here is I've never met the guy that I served with ever who said Madame Road looking forward going in that shrinks office with the waterfall in the background, and it's really quiet and let's go talk about feelings had never met I've never met that person right spare,
from our community. but you have you heard a NATO Chad went. Ok, know how I feel about it. Sure I mean I've talked to a lot of guys? I went to it that thought it was awesome an hour when Chad went December, two thousand sixteen and country years he was dead seven eyes on his brain and they laughed. We were. What do you mean? That wasn't very many one of the guys we're with have forty. Do you mean it okey said he. I gonna walk around with Opel Helmut Kohl, can't risk fallen over the guy you don't like a joke among each other rights, the site, seven tv. I them wasn't very many, but you know what you can't find on, although screens city, ear interface, hush, regular scoring. So you know I am of I am an advocate
of whatever you find works? If that works? For you do it one hundred percent? I believe it feel it live it. but I am not convinced by any military centred organization that their rights we doing any sort of good. Yet I don't know if they just want to talk about it and not be about it. By less than two years later, Chad was dead and you know Do all the things I mean there? There is a lot of assessment that happens at that place and could be potentially good. It told me almost all the things I already knew about him as a spouse. I already know they did personality, testing and different. stress test and mean yes,
Dont know the scientific sleep lab study, but I could tell you his sleep is shit. They did a test. they are trying to realise. Are you the guy? That's gonna, I'm trying to figure, where they said this? Basically, are you the guy? It's gonna see a problem, respond right away like rapid fire like a bull in a China shop. Are you the guy? It's gonna like take a minute, assess it and you're not gonna, be very far but it's going to be methodical and it's going to be perfect, that's chat. He would have ever watched him pack, a car for a family trip, that's chat, so all the things that they did their you know don't feel like it gave me any more insight than I already had and I'm not so sure that's the case for I mean and they do art therapy and they do dog therapy and they do music therapy and mean even them, making him walk a dog. He finally said: Durham, hey man, I'll do whatever you want to do, but I'm no walkin stamped on his part, one of them,
team guys like he didn't like dogs, so yeah, if works for people and they got something out of it great, but the way I see it is it's a way for the guys to go fat in their medical records, so they can punch the ticket on where their medical disability lies, which to be totally frank, has a spa. every single one of those do should be a hundred percent disabled yeah. No, I I never went to it. It wasn't it was. It was an existence maybe, but I never went to it, but I do know a lot of guys that went through it that got a lot out of it and or what they got out of it? Yeah they're look at their medical record book. You know, they're being just the decommissioned an aspect of it, meaning for thirty days, like you're, just gonna, eat nice, food and like now do anything not blown up or whatever. There was the end. And guys felt I've. I deaf. We know some guys. I've got a lot out to go into it. Clearly, some shortfalls despair.
If they find issues in their like area. This is no factor that seems kind of crazy, but yeah. mention that see tee? Think as I can't make it see see tee while you're alive right. post mortem, so same thing interface, our schools growing right now there is no test for it, so too some degree. Those guys now they are. That has served multiple deployments, and now you have some TB eyes. You might wanna almost assume the tat could be in there. What what I think could be, a great way and an extension of service for some of our military. As this Keiko form we fill out before the guy's deploy, and Four listeners- it's it's it's! it's a form we fill out. That basically says what's gonna happen, should your husband get killed or poor wife, your spouse gets killed and everything from who's gonna show up at your door,
in a weather uniform as it military honours. Are they buried or they cremated issues gonna. Take your kids are all those you now pretty important questions its. kind of sad that when you fill it out so many times its commonplace, I remember the first time I filled it out. We mould over these questions for so long and by the end of the deployments, Amene I'm like in general I am like. Oh yeah, that's fine! Yet that's! I wait change that cause. She moves and she's not can be able to get here in time to make this purse. I mean that's how it is but and there's there is some. There is gonna, be some imitations and I dont know what they are, but we were able to donate Chad's brain because he d state side and you have to do it prob. Lee within forty. The seventy two hours, I'm not quite sure what the timeframe is His brain was studied and that's how we were able to determine the that he did have that and I dont know,
It would be a click of all if you're overseas, because of travel time except trot, but if he were to add that on the cake of form that if you were killed, you would like your brain donated. This is in no way to encourage anybody to take their life by any means. But either way, if you're, a team guy and a new get in a car accident and you die fill in the bank if who could also put on their or at least have a conversation with your person. You also want your brain donated. That would be a great extension of service or the dresser straightforward, ask men then there is a straightforward. Ask. Brain study is kind of a big it's a big topic and in those circles written under their. So the elements that go into this, but you know, there's The two places where the brains really being study run our China and Japan, and
european other. Just protest on chimpanzees scares me and so because there are the closest to ask that the best way to study the brain is whilst working. You know you can't. That makes sense river, and so you know we have issues doing that here. Chimpanzees. You know that their chastened off the Europeans Peters, chastened off you know, scientists from Europe. There are thirty setting up shop in Chinatown, psyche, we're gonna, bringing a graph is brain, you know, and so There's a lot of there's a lot of challenge. Is that we will we will face what what we do know is that ass veteran suicide is not a thing guys, don't I'll get together and kill themselves. At the same time we needs we need to create communities with with bonds of p They were able to take some of the lessons that Sarah's bravely sharing with us
and in so many behind behind and around her are sharing their journey. What they ve seen we need. We need to strengthen the community set were able to kind of watch after each. Because the military has a stronger social fabric than pretty much anywhere and in in sort of normal? You know me America or anywhere America right and instil you're you're one point: five, there's lots of different statistics, but you're one point five times more likely to take your life. If you're in the military than if you're, not an Just you know. How is this happening? A cow? Is this ok Well, it's not ok, and so we're trying to doing what we are doing is blue people together in the real world, not an a office with the waterfall. You know that you don't want to be there Ok, you know physical health, mental health,
somehow those are. Definitely we don't have to study chimpanzees to know that those are definitely tied together and obviously Chad did not suffer from physical. You know like he could do it Stop ups just fine and climb mountains and stuff, but you all these things. No, you not sleeping well great work out. You know you talk about this all the time. Jacko right you know, and so bring people together. Yes, think about this and so It was really telling when we did this in Virginia beaten in guys at chattered, served with showed up in a quietly kind of did the work. You know this and the Big F, nine fifty you know it's just awesome. This is America, God bless us right and You know the showed up, and if this was a group counselling session to talk about, you know that the mandatory briefs away- nobody shown up for that stuff, but you open and you do the work in honour of
in order to honour Chad's life and think about veteran suicide prevention. To think about this unbreakable guy right mean going anybody in the Navy to go wants to be a seal. You want Chad's career there like, yes, that's I want that to be me and you got guy showing up, and you know There is some community around it. You know everyone's, then bending Sarris ear that states in oak, as this issue is so close to her. So close to so many people in the community and but Just strengthening bonds right, you bring people together in the real world. This is very counterculture and we're very cool with that. You know in a week were kids are grown up text messaging each other to instead of walking set of captain kneecap like like. We are right now right, we need this were social animals and we need to be a part of it. the bigger than ourselves, and so that's that's
We're about in and physical health and mental health and raising awareness and its can't just be you know Trying to beat it into people write like on a hammer. I see a nail me just tell it. Let me tell you about third suicide prevention people just to not out, but when you got story as yet like Charles and who gets might Sarah? That's that's able and willing to tell it mean this is hard. She's gotta get a saddle up every time. Every time for this and she's doing it because she wants to change the number, and you want other people do not go through which had to go through and theirs lot, bravery. That goes the goes into that and and so that's I'm I'm proud that that we get to mean I work for her in this. Go rock works for her and you don't. We do anything that that she's on board, with in terms of jobs, story or just the way that were run run in the event around and,
we did have it's just a unique opportunity in the kind of veterans, suicide prevention, space that that nobody wants to be too close to, but unfortunately Some of us are and- and so it's a real honour. This is this is the thing I most proud of that there have been a part of because it is just it's it's its changing lives, helping people and bringing them together and raising Awareness for something that is is really important to me, because I know I know you ve lost these people in your son. on shore people in my our goal in all you have sit right there I mean this is this? Is her life, and so it is. This. Is this matter this matter is hugely to us. I'm all board like what people need to do when there on board. What are we doing? What's? What's our deal? Well, we we won't be.
to take to the work out and not my look different for a lot of people Holden go to your local gems jump on it your garage find a buddy were hosting larger scale. What we call live events this year doing. Those in some will call like flagships These one of them's here in Santiago, so we're hoping- maybe you- might come and show up threat of November six Santiago it'll be across Crossfit humanity, so not far from here. I pass it actually on the way. We do November. Third. Well, let me back out November fifth we're going to be doing it and for Pierce Florida at the did he see museum, it's their stop muster? We cannot be speaking and doing some other things down there so raises out standing. If you get a chance gotta for Pierce Florida and visit the unity she'll museum, its awesome in it is. It is really really cool. So that's November fifth November, swear in Santiago November. eleventh is gonna, be New York City November thirteenth is gonna, be Virginia Beach.
My hometown and Jack's. Jocks is actually November. Six, though always any movement but early. Let my ass were hosting so in color. Giant muster start start getting. Your train on. You got a thousand, box steps with forty five pound rushbrook skins, I'm evolutionary! That's a guess. Some admission rise air pollution. To get some evolution for sure, and he used to do that. I don't know if you know this, but he used to do it in the garage. I video of this him doing stuff. and he would do it in on the garage and just short in his backpack. He cut all the tags out of his gear right, ounces, equal town, Sarah Ounces, equal pounds, so I knew it carrying, but he's a projector and he projected Aachen cargo on the back of our garage door. So when I talk about- I guess that's how focused he was an that's. That's how focused I am with this.
and then and then what what were raising money is at what we're doing. We are raising money. Okay, so this this came about through a partnership that go rocket had with the Navy's your foundation ass. You know when your brother's Chris Erwin, who was Sarah was his level one Crossroad instructor Virginia Beach way back. When I mean you know, everyone is so close, close tat to everyone and he had. had called me and said: hey. You know, because for teaching the any these ones out here on the West Coast. Tut summoned Delmore yeah. I think I probably went to Three, those over the years in that time, for him to traffic has the hours ago. massive dead left, nor have, I know you would now remember me from my physical attributes at are at a crossroads. Elena, yeah I'll, raise money, so we're raising money- and you know this- this came about through that partnership and in ok It called me up and he was I to know
Nobody knows how to deal with this man. Everyone wants to deal with it and nobody knows how to deal with it in, and you know So you get guys it or you here you see a foundation in gold. whatever right take. We want to deal with this. We still don't know how to deal with it in Well, I think I got. I think this choice, work out is the way that we can deal with this. He goes medical sera, because, obviously you know you don't do anything without the family. families on board, especially that the spouse, spouses, the that that's the that's the deal. You know she had to think about it, said no, and I thought about it. We, chat knows me in Emily and and Christian. call him out. You know it's Florida. We have heard outside. My kids are inside pure chaos for chat on or whatever was in the middle, the pandemic and she's fine. ok, let's do this and MIKE
I kind of said okay. Well, you know if you change your mind side now, I've made up my mind we're doing this right in. to throw her another across it there's a lot of hard work out in cross, fit right, o a lot of look at you can do them harder. Can scale them to whatever the hardest. the hardest work out in the history of cross. It Ever been done was House he did Chad the first time she went into into their garage and put on trial rucksack by herself and it chap. Think about that when you're feeling sorry for yourself out there it's a hard work out in. It is right in that's what it's supposed to be everyone. So easy that that's you don't think about anything, when life easy except the next easy thing. You're gonna get right, you're your men to dig deep your men to think about this and an that's, that's the goal and so region. Any half of its going to see a foundation
Syria has a nonprofit step up. Project in and that some, you know, its veteran mental health stuff. All going to support that that's outstanding and here I have to throw this out their cause like earlier- you, we are in the middle of whatever some high emotion moments, and you said something about the the families right and ice. I I thought about it, but then you know kept talking, but just the fact that the mill very families out there and what they put up with and what they go through and- equally I mean, in my mind, to worry more than the people better than the military themselves, so on top of all this. Just do you know the families that are out there, that the young. Spouses, you know come on down to because, like it get to know other people that are living life.
You know, I know that, might might my wife, you know she wasn't around we'd have family around. Like we have any family we lived in California, we lived in Virginia Beach. I was gone almost the entire time. She, no anyone. She ended up doing what you did, which is going to live with my parents for awhile just families right military family to come and get it. That's what I'm thinking get em. We friendly kid Framatome discriminate come all of a mere was it was so Osman Virginia Beach with such a great vibe. You know we were there at the crack of dawn it set in boxes up, and then you know it's like Alison people start to show up in waves cause you need a box rates so that its waves of people get on the box in people we were there. I flight was late then that to noon, and you guys are still in others a big crew they're, just like social. It was social and so it's not a depressing.
But it's not like you, you just people can't live inside that space forever right. You have you, have your your difficult moments and think about it and it's hard, but you know anybody, anybody that that serve the way the Chad serve. Like the guys I served with you, don't People walk around depressed after you're, gone you want them. You would be. You dont want that. I also think, like a lot of I just think the more we do talk about them, the easier it is for someone else to say me too, and so. it's hard to come out and talk about this. All the time and I've had this week has been very busy weak? For me, some pretty spent hard, but I- to believe that the more I talk about it and Chair Chad, story or or share the story of of other friends there have passed, took their lives that other
we will start to speak up at this Virginia Beecher? Then I had three people separately, pull me aside and and fight in me struggles that they have. I have had people reach out through social media like long messages, I don't care, I don't care along Is there a short? It is. An irish on back and I I think that its slow and I think it's a trickle, but the potential for this work, I'll done around veterans day. So we can talk about people stories so that meeting heard someone else to save me too, maybe all if all the need to hear. Is that they're not alone, and that someone else feels that too? Maybe that's what someone needs and that's great votes, when you know what's happening. It makes him so much easier and Talk about this, I could get a new guy like you should get a new guide that looks really nervous before their first operation. Any
April which has gone on you're nervous, it's cool your little queasy, your stomach, subtle, messed up you're, because they're they're scared, they're nervous, and if you got yeah, that's normal, it's no big deal. You feel that way. Little bed freed on ops, nobody'll, don't worry about it. That's your body preparing to going to combat all good and you can see like relief on their face. That's meant or shipwright their idea here, and we need more of that year, and this to me this. This whole thing is like. If you can tell someone o yet you you breached forty seven doors in your last three week, trip which is not an extraordinary number like that. That's you know, o youth, you got crashed in the room. However, many times you shot a coral Gustaf twenty nine times, your? U the rate the aura. So so you had, you know, your troops go through and shoot one per man and you re. You are ass owed all of them. That's whatever you know eighty freak blast next to your head that you sat through and
there are some things that are going on inside your brain. Here's! What's going on here's what you need to watch out for you, are you get ahead of it? That kind of conversation about this stuff, is the same thing that impacts that young new guy, because ok got it now I can grab it now. I can get hold of it and I can move forward its awesome. Chad one thousand acts dot com, that's where we, Go to find out about this stuff, rocky Ratko Rock across the board cuts the reason if you want to talk to Jason, go rock and just go rocket. If I live in Idaho, Can I do go? Go rock yes! What if I live in Nebraska, so low here's the thing we have. We have five hundred official go rock clubs around the country and in part of it is we
activating all of them. For this. We really believe in this world of people getting together in the real world, and this is not about you- don't have to be of a veteran to do this. You don't have to. Anything except willing to show up right, and you get so much out- I got through a frigate thousand step- is just a fire. yeah it's an hour. You know it's an hour: ok, one study, Sloan's thirty, one zero snare, I mean yeah and you want to train up the borders Maybe we need to really some kind of a preparatory work out God why much a Rapto people CUP outbreak scale, you're, worried about people coming out you after fervour Abdo now come on. I've imposed, robbed or a few people in it. It doesn't feel good. I feel terrible. You know I always feel like I, won't do it anymore. I I kind of figured it out like this. It did not on a white. Do another people,
Not a weed same thing so disclaimer raise you need to train yourself up. This is an hour it's step up, so you got it s up to the forty five pound played on your back large scale down if you're not ready, we need a dream, but we need to fight for our. Yes, that's what I'm saying you so it trades hordes of iron freer, your work out its cash out for your work out, whatever else you're doing just just integrate a box. If you ve got a cooler in your house, The cooler- if there's you know like whatever the case may be, that you have steps, get it Instagram, Yon, Instagram S, Sarah Wilkinson, seven number, seven Jason you anything else. Did I miss anything. I don't think so. The remiss anything oh well, I guess just to bring just to make the point one more time and is that where we find the guys are very fragile, ominously, fragile
is in their transition time. So we People are separating from the military. Maybe they didn't pit retirement. Maybe they ve done ten years in their transitioning out or their return meant and now they need to transition civilian life. That is very for a seal. I'm gonna say that's a very delicate time for them and. I would encourage families peers, really beyond the look out for them during that time, because, whereas we ve talked, so much about the brain and PTSD. There's also that loss of of tribe- or at least they feel was though there is, and What we see is sometimes that increases the likelihood of, maybe we're not making a really good decision, so I would just encourage people to just be of the best support for those people during that period of transition.
yeah interesting. We that's winner. That's winner, seal platoon is most. Exposed when their transitioning from the war. or to the land or the land to the water and theirs not only you a person, heaved loss of tribe like you're talkin about, but also that perceived loss of mission, because whatever You in my whole life and all of a sudden. What am I going to do now? Yeah win tat when Chad was two hundred and twenty years, we were at the discussion of what do we do. You know my dad served twenty six years, his dad served somewhere about that. I can't quite remember it. we know the hard part as I I really kind of hoped he would. Pick us. I thought a cable done. Twenty years, like we ve done twenty years me. Sarah Chad, Kingsley Hudson, we ve done it bill pick us and he didn't
and I again believe he had a warriors heart and he was born to do this, but. I said to him: would you know we talked about jobs and not just remember he looked at me and he said I don't have any skills, that's what they think. I mean he's that serious You're thinking what I mean, I know that you're not gonna go work for some one and be hanging out in bushes and kicking down doors most likely, but what this with these guys do. Have I mean most of them are very intelligent, critical thinkers. Analytical problem solvers think outside the box- can make decisions quickly. that is a lot of really great attributes that many org Davis, fins and civilian world would want, and so again just speak to I
sat loss of identity in its like I've, been shootin guns in Boston down doors. Will what? What else do I do? one of my First Spokane Chiefs Chief said. He knows a old Vietnam Seal and he was a mailman now they would go over there and like drink beer or whatever. It is house, and he tell stories about now and he had this picture on the wall and it was like a shop from behind like a picture of of a guys back. and the guys, but the guy who's back you see, is clearly of Vietnam Seal with floppy hat and a stoner in his gear on in his jungle, candy top and his blue jeans, and stand in front of like a corporate desk and the the corporate debt there's the boss guys looking at him in the cabin, beneath this, I'm sorry, sir, we don't have any jobs for point men here, which is true, but to your point
Believe me. I suppose, all time our work with companies all over the country and all over the world actually and they absolutely need the rituals that have these kind of attributes that you're talking about- and there is absolutely a new mission when you get done with the military, to go out in the civilian world and haven't him. to make people's lives better and build great products and build great companies, and and do thanks, that is absolutely available and you are needed in the in the civilian world and that's the way it is. We need them to tolerate, like our country needs people with this and of experience spread throughout our or country spread throughout. Our companies spread throughout our community spread throughout. Her are neighborhoods One of the things that make Santiago such a great town is its military. There's its military town. You ve got this just Opinions of San Diego, the foundation is strong, the same where I live in Jacksonville Beach, him in my my name,
two doors down as a top gun instructor. Maybe these things are just normal around us in its third is good p. That are just you know. This topic the greatest generation coming back to America and just doing great, stuffed in educated and work in their ass is often building America into America and we need more of that, and so we need. We need that. The transition is is its to echo her point of view stitches socks mean don't underestimate it under any circumstances it can happened to you- it will happen to you. It will be terrible and in now that you know it's common brace for it a little bit. Take it easy on yourselves build out some support structures around you stuff. I and we just this is going to require something that is not kind of. Normal this day and age can require us to kind of work together. You know like how to support
transitioning folks better how to kind of bill stronger communities in the real world. How to that's what we need. We don't we. you don't need guys, come out. It's ok! You don't need to do. We need to be an influence or on Instagram right, like no how about not that right and so you know it's it's it's difficult, it's difficult and in we have to keep having the conversation that that's why I was. back you and then- and I respect this long form podcast, If you do get its forces people, you know it's not just soundbites, so gay the story. This is things as simple as it as it looks on someone's feed and you know that that's kind of what real life is like in, and I think that we will need more of that, not less
totally agree was speaking along form. I've kept you in here for over three hours, Jason. Thank you for what you are Thank you service. You! Don't we covered that last time we are continuing to do, they'll go and forming communities out there were Your committees, I can see this look in your eye when you, when you start saying that and and I get it MA am and for It's a lot through jitsu, but look that that's a real thing and getting people together to get together and sweat and work deposited I can appreciate what you're doing and Sarah, obviously thanks for coming on for your service. Thanks for your sacrifice, thanks for than the line and what, while your husband was gone and gone again, and on again, and being there and raising a family and building a business and doing all those things did
the military families that are less than right now for what you go through an and what they risk So thanks to you thanks your kids as well. for what they ve gone through and Of course, Chad thanks for your service brow, we won't forget, amen. Thank you. That Sarah Wilkinson and Jason Mccarthy have left the building. and echo Charles. We need to go a little bit old school. I think on this one for- decompression serve you never this before
the original purpose of when we would had done with upon gas ECHO Charles and I would just gonna start talking. about stuff for a little while it was too compressed from heavy subject, as we started doing part gases are hidden some heavy subjects along the way this week. Originally just gonna start talking. I would just gonna let echo talk for a little bit while I did the decompression cause, I'm using the one. That's all wrapped up in whatever subject is we're talking about. So certainly in need of a little decompression after that one just disaster just a very tough subject and in that's why we're talking about it right, we're talking about it as you know, Sir said something that she doesn't want anyone else to have to go through and that's why,
Talk about these things, so for a little decompression. Now I'll, let you talk we'd better go Charles. We knew we want people to take care of themselves strew. So you you like, as we are concerned, this mysteries to the brain, so with your body that, like your fiscal year, other party parts, your buddies like less of the mystery right. So like you go in you know, you're gonna come scenario you get shot in the abdomen Vanessa Okay, it's going to be pretty straightforward. As far as hey can we save this guy? Can we not you know all the stuff and like he can bleed out? He didn't there's all these things and then there's these. You can take specific actions and then hopefully we can save them all this time. each out in the leg or Sunday lie Iranian. Are you blow out you near something like ok, it's broken. He can't run anymore, so pretty straightforward, but
rain against damaged in one way or another kind like there's no telling what's gonna happen all the time you know, and you when either it's it's. It is the brain is the mysterious part of the anatomy right now nerves right and really know how they worked very hard to like repair them in and then, as we said, Take that brain and rattle around inside of a inside your skull even over again we don't know what it's gonna do, but we know it's not good. We know that and then you have to make it kind In a way we're Ember, Kirsty Ennis, yes, so she she got jammed up. She got injured and she still at her leg. You know she was doing this and then, but you constantly being checked in a pot. You know checked on and be like okay and then time there were like hey. Ok, we're at a point where we gotta make this very specific decision, and we know what could in all the stuff in it was pretty. It was pretty clear. Was then you make the decision, but that's it. That's an example of.
Creating an injury and then it still having lasting effects last in affects us enough. Until you got it, you know either right actually dying risk huge, bigger injuries or Jesse. Drop. It offered at word amputated, and you know member her talking about she knows she could. She could still walk and he was taking her last walk on the beach in the sand exactly right, but a perfect example of like you can incur the injury and still handle still you, don't go about your business. Sure you jammed up here and there here and there and then by the injury, is still progressing. getting worse, and then you and but the thing is again for your your other parts, your body, its kinda, is kind of a protocol. You can check it out and be like. Ok, brain so mysterious is that Ye Green dry and we arch kind of trying to do that. But it's so mysterious that it's not as cut in dry like that and it's the same thing. He incurred.
injuries at some point and that thing just keeps last and lasting getting worse and worse and worse, you know until it gets. You was crazy started like get a grip on exactly what happened you it's the. Unknown frontier of the human body, probably the most unknown frontier of the human body them the nerves. brain and this so many illusions to even like with yourself where you can be like I'd I just do this in this situation or that situation or I would never choose to do that, but you get in a certain like situation. Do some stuff, that's real unexplainable or explainable later, even though you thought from beef like beforehand, you see Europe. Yours Oh convinced us something and then ask where do I go. She all surprised on what you did you no kind of thing so sakes this big illusion like it's like he can make the decision not to or whatever was bad and work like that water
factors come into play. Well, we do want people to, like. I said my people to take care of themselves and the ones around them around them. But we got a kind of like the analogy goes with the the plane in the oxygen oxygen on your own face before you put it on your kids through, so you got to do a little something to kind of keep yourself in the game. Sarah mentioned something where he said. Oh, I don't have any skills right inside my getting a job like this Kenya. Yet I can see why someone might think that off like for at first. But the fact is, you have a lot of skills and one of the main skills is straight up capability in all these different ways where you can learn this specific thing or learn that specific trade in all this other stuff, but as someone who is just a more capable person across the board that guy's going excel in those skills for so, in my opinion, that's an important thing to be capable and to stay capable
on this path of capability, hopefully it takes them it some heavy. It happens that that's kinda, like you mentioned you Jujitsu in Jujitsu, if you're goin heart are you not gonna get now you are going to get yet that's kind of the nature of going heart. Some say no, can work out just like with anything else, but don't worry supplement nation will help us all to those beings. Tents, chocolates up the long way of seeing Douglas elements. Bursting with all your decompress. Now little Mammy chuckle a little bit we're train over here, decompression. Yet so echo. Has a new era of energy drinks straight up healthy for you. I know it. Equate health and energy drinks and the same thing didn't used to know You know we do now new era. Discipline go many different flavors best leavers mangled.
I am, though, by far on combating that's like our own activities that save a lot, because the oranges freaking good there on the sound like these are like good flavour. They taste good, but like mangles, just so much better. It's like crazy Saint seem saying the good thing is that drinks, they tastes different you, you got something. Might not like mango probably a small number of people, people might not like orange. Some people might might not like sour apple sniper. Some people might not like Jacko Palmer, so People might not like. Whatever so, the recommendation is trial. Try once you would you like me, you let me know that let echo Charles no, if his signature flavour is the best. What it says is actually the best. You love your favour. The best like me. Will you ever drink another different kind? This see that's weird only cause I don't touch
I won't have any negative poppy moraine in them and get others that, but if you had all flavors in a fridge ever for one year I didn't do one area and I was restocking yours. What I have to replace a sour apple sniper you would never have to know if they only one year but in the Spirit of Lisbon, nature and all its software. If you're eating stake every single night in someone offer you off the path of the of the mango man in this spirit of variety, yes recapture or that you know, that's the I think natural, I'm pretty sure I would only drink Jocapa. I understand because it s so good to me, but I also meets you, will seek as your boyfriend. I will either way it doesn't matter. Drink is what you say doesn't know what flavour you choose to drink at any particular time, regardless, if may is the best flavour
or healthy for you drink in the energy drinking in the front in the energy, the little boost though we sometimes what borne by yet the health benefits as well as opposed to that poison benefit. The lack of candidates are, what are they detriment to Euro Zone adventure either way discipline going this walkin vitamins yup Amazon and Origin USA camp. Also, we have mule Jogerfy about conjugal field outcome, a familiar but jack of rules that easier gay at the European Court of you. You don't get a quicker and on its own. The joint work for this for you joints when you living are doing. Did you do that? You want to worry about the joints. If you don't want to hear about your joint, this is the one that, though we need. I dont orbit. Trends can be pretty You want to worry about you, but I'm not. Some people are more in touch with that can stuff in that school to either way dweller
and super crude oil will make sure that there still in the game on devotee men and yet the greens. Yet we. have greens now and decide to come up with a creative name. Doc brings remains and grew very good dreams and entitled to live in eat enough vegetables. Like me or fruits like me now you can. In a scoop that's good in again, you know true jackal style, apparently making these. Taste good, which is very not hard core of you by the way, but it is very efficient and when he saw little, Israel low drag its also results related when I'm not trying to get you to drink, something that tastes like junk, and then don't drink it cause it tastes like junk. Why would we do that you're not trying to offer up
another element of resistance in a good path. It we're alone through this I am also by twenty three cold war. Immunity stuff. This is essential, so dont forget about that. Can stuff. Also monk he's tugboats takes again, but sometimes extra does rack up. I am back on the strawberry path. Right now you are going hardcore shrubbery for, like a week, asked us go and work or peanut butter for at least a month. What's that you're normal prior, you put anything in there in the low banana little whatever. What are you just straight? More milk and some variety of milk could be cocoanut. Milk could be almond, milk could be the O. Milk could be the milk milk An open but yeah mixed up with one of those and they are it's legit thou have their own little did you know my protocol
I've been working on and its freakin solid entities. I don't know, though, so, is it normal like what you literally had a salad like not like aside celibate outcomes, robust salad, she estate Sally Chicken, salad, whatever would you drink with a what's the nor I'm? What pairs with that? That don't say water I know. Well, what's the jam, he told his, I wonder, will work kind of go that everything knows. You were at the restaurant, they can either the Waterford layer given. But what is it? What's the giant your story here, thing is not going anywhere sway. We're goin us. Ok, I think a lot of my left eye pair with the big Sally called the Big Sally Chicken Bear robust, sullen milkshake, but just up Lane wonder plein like not, usually our banana frozen banana there or whatever none whatever could fly. Although the peanut butter, peanut butter, chocolate and then milk but I'm in local. Whatever just you know, you look at me
or bananas or whatever. If you want to make it a luxury whenever Jimsie but like pairs nicely rattle illegal, are well either way, these things again, jock a few dot com, subscribe? If you want the influx, you know where you are. remember to reorder or run out and other stuff. You don't to. Remember you don't have to pay shipping oil mills are to real, solid elements. Straw, mention origin, USA, dot com. Is where you can get your American made Denham up some of the big deal. Not big deal yeah when you kind of good on the line is lecture. You can good genes again this good great, actually Buyer some crazy. When we first looked into making these genes, we were talking to people, we are talking to people in the fashion industry legit. I am
You know what they wanted: a surcharge, repair genes, American May genes. We note the value placed on American, omnipresent American May genes or take a guess how much one eighteen, not kidding you. They said the good market price, four hundred and fifty dollars four hundred fifty dollars for apparent this was like in New York City with fat, and I, like kids under the table. Mcbride judged for fifty dollars for a pair of genes does not happening walked out. I'm definitely be six, not happy. I was uneasy calm down, you know I was kind of losing it because you know I really don't like fashion people in the first place. Now they want to charge four hundred because their China there trying to control the market right you're, trying to keep that think elevated because they want to charge for fifty for their Para genes. But you know the whole idea of charging that much for genes like whatever their doing there
not a matter of like hey. We gotta, you know, and it makes this logistical say is not that they're doing something on a very inflating the price yeah for reason like they're doing what's their thing, what are they doing like that thing? I fail to see what they're doing they know that people want to buy American made stuff. They know they can't make it they want us to price it out of the market, will have to worry, that's what we ve, or do they make sense playing video games. The good news is, it doesn't cost four hundred and fifty nine ninety nine, what every said so bomb Nagel yesterday foods on there by the way thing American made percent bringing back the industry by the way expanding like Jeez Louise. She's with girls brand saying, there's others a lot going on. They had little to act Avenue Jean Louis Oh yes, so origin, USA, there's lots of Kosovo Jujitsu stuff on. There is well yeah. They get baggy yegg to give
and back into just where you get your staying in Jujitsu one another guy program running and come you dad. You talked about with Jason, go rock os good community. Digital also committed, stir, also have store, scald Jacko Store, Burma for on the path to represent this political freedom. Good. take the high ground or the high I will take you shrieking, shirts and hoodies, and and what not some shorts on their utility if in swimming cruising, lifting have. I said it all everything hybrid or whatever, anyway, that's insurance on there, we all sorts of cargo pockets you can't be wearing them for swimming or digital if they have the pockets of the big It's rather cargo cargo part No one can have a little cargo pocket honour, not a free baggy like from the gaps
the war for the ninety nine, for it does not have that, but the head like the targeting of Stick Ryan's into other front. Even here did you do with us and swimming, not recommend Trust, Mika Well, you might be able to be not up we'll meet up with legs. It can you possess present on that would be make a little bit better. We need to do a pair shorts with a slim. pocket on the leg. No wait. I think he's already. I don't have to double check, but they have like the pocket is key. it breathes like through, so the water can pass through, I'm wearing them right now they do have that jail, see but you know what I'm doing right now: you're working on popular do correction for broadcasting radius threats for cruising for sure swimming is more, No, because that, even though the water is made to drain out of it still you're there's big pocket.
Hold water. We're not suddenly we're not swim in the english channel. Actually, none other things out of Iraq centres that endanger to you. You know toto corner whatever. So let's redesign yes, sir, I always ain't redesign. Well. Are we lagging we're working on that one cannot simply to work in progress whatever, but the good thing about this is swimming jujitsu. I know you don't get stuck in their true, but is there not I You could really what's ideal for digital. Really, it's like spats interact, Gart sending were swimming. What's idea for swimming limping check it out, that's what's ideal for swimming lot of a sometimes on a way that can stuff online. The swimming some of us are understood. If we're not swim in the english channel, I get it. We can jump enough in the in the search on. If you if, if we're just cruising Rana, and then we find yourself at the beach Autonoe nor, like frivolous Body surfing you can wear, though shorts and say yes, and they
great they're, gonna, be acceptable variants, not optimal. They'll be appropriate about that. Now. the really good for normal life, which is what I work for What if I'm wrong report on different pressure that we need to make Jacko store dot com That's right! You don't you like something get something about that, including but not limited to the shorts read on subscribe to his podcast. If you want to also have some other podcast Jacko unravelling Mean Darrow Cooper, the grounded podcast or your kid park asked. we also have the underground liquidity. What happened with these platforms Something does happen. These platforms well beyond Jacko underground dot com. If you want to see prior to that, it helps us build it. A dollar eighty cents a month, thanks to the support, if you can't afford it call, will support you, email assistance at Jacko Underground our camp. We are you too general.
which there's a lot of high level assistant directing happening on there were hello, pusher sarcasm, you actually accepted it factually that, yet I dig it even like, with I pray you ve been. You know you ve come a long way to some great work. So, thank you but Are you too gentle video version of this podcasting, also the weights and its becoming more and more common way to consume, as it were, attracted origin, USA also has a little Youtube channel that you can check out, struck, also psychological offer? You know that is an album tracks. Job getting you and me, and us all pass or moments of weakness that to come at once.