« Jocko Podcast

351: SEALS, Spec Ops, and Psychedelics w/ Marcus & Amber Capone

2022-09-14 | 🔗

The story and life lessons from US Navy SEAL, Marcus Capone. Fighting TBI, PTSD, and Demons with Psychedelic medicine.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This is jackal buck s number three, fifty one with me: jacko willing. Master, sergeant, Andrew christian, marcus, sauna, born in phoenix arizona on october, twenty second nineteen, eighty six, he graduated from san luis obispo high school, not in two thousand and four joined the order in two thousand five as an instrument- master surgeon. Marcus on his first assignment was in fort bragg north carolina, where he served in the second of the five await the eighty second airborne division rose through the ranks from rifleman two squad leader, while at fort bragg he deployed to Afghanistan two thousand and seven and two thousand and nine. In two thousand and eleven he was assigned a hunter army airfield in georgia in two thousand and thirteen master sergeant, Marcus honor was deployed again to afghanistan in two thousand and thirteen he attended.
Special forces assessment and selection of poor brag north carolina can. He was selected who tend the queue course there. He graduated in two thousand, if team as a special force weapons sergeant assigned a second, but seventh special forces group. Master, sergeant, mark asano, deployed again Afghanistan as a senior weapon sergeant on odp, seven, two to three and and two thousand sixteen to colombia masters joint work. Sano schools include basic airborne course, modern, modern or He combative level, one in two ranger indoctrination programme, small ranger tactics course warriors leaders course basic noncommissioned officer course, advance leaders course ranger course, sear.
Freefall parachute its course and these special forces weapons sergeant qualifications course sergeant, marcus saunas awards include the silver star, the arm, accommodation, mentally army, achievement, metal, valorous unit award army, good conduct metal, national defence servers metal Afghan came pay metal com, Infantryman badge, ranger, tab, special forces, tab, parachute, badge, military freefall, parachutist badge. Master sarge, Marcus Otto had a wife and three children, riley andrew madeline. And his friends that served with him alongside him, called him. The real captain America than an early
july, twenty twenty. He sent some of those friends a message he said. Tell me I told you before my doors open my phone is at hand. We did things that people ec movies about and in some cases, writers and producers won't even try to write our story, but the rucksack is heavy and when it gets heavy, we help each other. But you have to reach out, don't let the valley win. So that's andrew marker sano, the kind of guy that.
We all look up to kind of guy. That's looking out for us kind of guy that we see as strong and unflappable kind of guy, that's helping others and, of course, couldn't possibly need any help himself. But a few days after sending that message to his friends and comrades on July six, twenty twenty anymore casino killed himself, which is a nightmare. And it's only one of thousands of these cases and we ve talked about
them on this podcast. We talk to sir wilkinson about her husband, Chad,. Who committed suicide after multiple combat deployments with seal teams. We talked with my case about a front of his name to price, another seal. This one who. Killed himself in the middle of the point. And the list goes on and on and every branch and it's not a new problem on this podcast, we discussed charles white whittlesey. Medal of honor recipient world war, one who killed himself after returning home.
We discussed the awful suicide of louis polar junior son of chastity, poor those wounded in vietnam and fought, off the darkness for twenty five years before? Finally, using his battle with the demons, but there are people that overcome There are people that find a way to push through Push on and begin to truly live again, there are many ways to get there tonight. It's an honor to have amber and marcus capone.
With us to people who have found a path, a path, out of the darkness, a path towards the light in their doing their best to share it with as many people as they can Marcus was a seal. For thirteen years completed multiple. Deployments overseas and his wife amber also here who stuck with him through all that and much more and from everything I can tell, she eventually saved him from himself amber Marcus thanks for thanks for coming on. I know it's every topic. I know you are or are in the trenches every day dealing with this and trying to help people also thanks common on here to share your story and and hope,
died some other people in the right direction. I guess we just start at the beginning, like I just started marcus gear. Your childhood, where grow up. What was that all about her? First thanks for that introduction knows, while purchased yeah, you know one of one of my most Every every single marine knows who chesty puller is probably the most iconic marine of all time, if not is definitely in the top two or three and Yet? No one knows about his son or nationally, No one very few people know about his son and wool. It's too I think it's one of the most tragic stories in history about what happened to his son and louisbourg junior coming out of vietnam so severely wounded, but I mean he like kind. I got it together. Eventually,
a pulitzer prize winning book, which is an incredible book and just fell apart at the end, and we that should be in a heap. People should know at least as much about him, They do about his dad because if that's not a warning, then I dunno. What is and yeah chuck, I think that's a good point in that story in particular. Is that you know I'm good right now and, and guys are good, but it took him twenty five years you know wrote pulitzer prize book seemed like he was okay, but I feel we've all come to this point, and even you know you go do this treatment that we're going to talk about, and it doesn't mean you're healed forever. You don't go to the gym or go downstairs to workout and think you're going to be a black belt for a day.
Our new tried every day right until I think in this healing process its you know, I'd want to cause damage, but we came to a point where we needed some help to climb out of some darkness, and so I have to work on it every day, literally every day, probably for and so I I you know you mentioning that story, I think, is important for people to hear like this is not a one and done is not a panacea. You know this is this is forever right and this is forever, and so we gotta work on ourselves every day forever. Otherwise you know we don't want to end up. You know underground too early, so
yeah. So let's talk about how you got here, how you got here sitting here today will where'd you grow up yeah, so I was born in queens new york moved to the island. When I was a long island. When I was three and I you know, I thought I was just take a typical long island kid. I played everything. You know my dad and my grandfather. Both played college sports, basketball, baseball football and so I literally, I think I had a ball my hand at you know, two or three years old I was on skis at three. I was in the water at four and we had at one of the top wrestling programs in new york, and so I was like on mad at like seven. You know, and most of those places you didn't get to wrestle a junior high or maybe even high school, and so you know I was lucky and- and I grew up in a beach town in long beach, new york,
so you know I was always in the water always on the beach. I was a lifeguard at sixteen and yeah. I mean I thought life was good. And I know that sounds like a pretty, for he is at least I both europe, both you're good, Your dad and your granddad were athletes when you said like yeah, they were, they were athletes. My my grandfather was an all state basketball player. Why do two from new york, which is you know, to play basketball and- and I mean I'll I'll brag- I think new york's got some of the best basketball in the world, so we we played played I have leagues under my dad, was more football and baseball, so he he started as a freshman in high school, which was huge in in the catholic highschool league. So I went to all boys catholic high school, where he won holy cross and flashing shut up and down
yeah, so if I'm cut out for that all boys scenario yeah. Well, maybe it's like why I'm here today yeah and what about good grades and stuff? Were you doing good in school? I was, I was good in school. I was really good up until highschool and I slipped. That sounds like a was like a street all boys school in high school yell, high schools, all boys. So I went to public grammar and middle school in long island and then I went to all boys catholic high school in back in new york So I took the train for an hour every day. The football coach at the time would pick me up in valley streams,
Wait. What year is this? So this is ninety four year degree before jack and so yeah. I would. I would take the train at like five fifteen the morning he'd pick me up at six, thirty, the coach and then he'd drive me and the rest of the way. So that was just normal back then, and you know some people don't understand it now, but the catholic high school league in everything was good and I didn't. I grew up in a town that didn't have a great public high school and and again I was you know I was all about sports, so wherever they had the best sports I was I was gonna. I was going. What would your dad do for a living you know he- he can't just a bit of a hustler really never
her finished college men says Martha. Super smart, you know was really the market and bed just never applied himself. He he wind it. I think the last time years whose abridge operator, so he literally open and close the drawbridge in the county in our work for the county in the benefits. The funny thing is, whenever my I think my uncle shane asked me, what is Marcus's dad do and I asked you were asked: and we're something he does tell him. I work for the union to leave it at that, for the men were used to tell people use progenitor bridge engineer, It sounded better than telling them that he was opening and closing a drawbridge and and then on the side he moonlighted he he drove for people, so he would drive for an elected official, but who I'm I'm drawing a blank
from new york, maybe something like the governor yeah yeah. You know just a few like kind of it had like a celebrity. He had like a town, lincoln town car and he's getting literally had a square lincoln tower that was handed down to me via sucked gas was awesome. I love that thing. What about your mom lincoln, to see around hit it right on ahead? Yeah yeah mom worked for a dentist for over thirty years, so she was a. She was at the answer, the phone. You now pay the bills greeting everyone, so I've free free dental outrages, and what about brothers and sisters? Nine you're only China's only child I had, I have a half sister. I never met well Why can't remember what I mean? I we I mean I'd. Never I don't remember that, so it was like less than one when think they separated us, but yeah. That was just me. So
boiled sport. Only child and tall and focus was on sports, whose on sport an inner and academics. My dad was, he was an academic and you know I would literally get by backhanded if I came home with like you know, be a part of his childhood. You know you know that very very hard dad dad dad was hard right. So what do you think was driving that your dad cause? It sounds like he's kind of laid back in a way, or is he just porn all of his dreams into you? I think that I think you hit it. I hate. I think you hit that my parents went to woodstock, I mean they were like they were like sorta hippies. You know mommy's to protest the war and but He had like a real mean side and his grant his dad. My grandfather was even meaner. I think he told me what before noon, he darted you'd already drank like two quarts of beer the court's back in any own, they owned, I kiss family owned a bunch of the guests. Medallion
cabs, your oh yeah, capone's, reorganise and so I dont know how he was treated capability, how he was sent away to boarding school, boys catholic, your dad's, my dad in the bronx at four years old. So I mean if you and I think, back at four kind of love we had from our parents, his sent them away to catholic boarding school in the bronx, and I could just imagine what went on there from you know some of the some of the individuals that you know we're hearing about now all these stories these days. So maybe he had some shit. That he was. He was getting out on me possible, but it sounds like he just wanted you to be successful in a big way. It was all about me yeah. He felt like they hung up their life to. He was at every practice literally, and you know right there children watch him, didn't you
what the railing. No, that was my mom. Oh yeah, so no he would. He would backhand me if, if something just didn't seem right and she would get thrown out of the little league world series, because she was screaming at the freaking umpire about a call and they actually did get thrown out. What like she had to leave the stadium hell yeah, I say hell yeah, I like people, I dunno why people get the impression that I would like be yelling and screaming, but I'd never like for my kids played sports. I would just I wouldn't say anything I wouldn't even coach him. I would even bet, while maybe occasionally, but most of the time I'll just sit there and watch because it's hard to coach your own kids man, they don't they, don't listen to you, so, no matter how much you know you just tell me the story downstairs yeah. The other day I was told him of my son was Don't you get your opportunity at this point I been introduced for twenty five years and my son and watching him role
and he's got an arm lock on somebody, and I say: hey, you know you need get your hips a little further underneath that elbow. He looks at me and he goes No, you don't know how gay fair enough bastard nicholas, neither but see sir you you're grades are good sound like a freaking good model. Kid. I was a good kid. And I think that was the problem too. I was like I was I was. I was too nice and I'm still a little too nice, but yeah. So I got you know I was skinny too, so I was skinny nice kid that also got put Had not held back. Look like we do in taxes, we move back. Arcadian taxes for kids, like seventeen years alone, is fresh in an early warning healthily Emily. How should I graduated with someone who is turning twenty? I mean you have to do. You have to pass for three thousand yards in technical, the texas treasure he said I got put ahead early for whatever reason
and so I was with older kids, skinny, nice kid and ya got a definite got abused. Just I have done picked on costly war crimes, and I think some people call that right a passage a little bit of both, but it wasn't fine looking to music. Do you, like growing up in new york like queens everything rap like beastie boys, right from Brooklyn Guns n suggest you kind of normal yeah music wasn't for late eighties, early nineties yeah and then it, but then I got into like some other stuff in high school like trying to think like kind of please ask music project
I know everything I was coming out of seattle. That's right! So all that stuff was good cause that stuff made it mainstream yeah. It was in the early nineties, so you could pick up on it they all in choice: school boys, catholic highschool, queens, has was all this geared towards you going to college spaceport. Yes, you actually was it's all we talked about, I mean I knew we hold a camps, guys gonna come jerry summer from there I can't even remember jack. That's how far back I was either. Basketball camp or a football camp at fordham or a baseball camp junior lifeguards like all that shit in what what did you? What sport you like the best I liked football
That is that the one you are best at is also one as best I I played in college for her debt will get into that later, but yeah I get full scholarship to play and definitely beat your body up, of course, but I just I dunno it's one of those things I liked. I was a quarterback from, I think, like seven years old, and I think it was up to me. I probably surfing- and I tried because we did live in a beast out of my dad is like not having it at all So I would try to surf and then immediately I a guarantee to you know some kind of camper. You know baseball doubleheaders in brooklyn. You know at ninety degrees, in the middle of a summer, type shit check. Alright, amber your turn. Will I enter the picture at the football juncture where my dad
good in him by prior to that, you must have been known some proud about what we do out prior to that I grew up in a really small town in southern illinois. So everyone, when I am from illinois things Chicago but actually the new chicago one time in my life. I grew up On a retired dairy farm in a very rural part of illinois, Retired, dairy farm, meaning there's no more cows, their yeah, it's not there, there is it and all the baron's were still there. The milk houses there of there all the land was there was your families that retired it? Yes, my great grandfather other great great and great grandfathers were the milk men of my county salmon shouted down at some point yeah, so they had. I don't even know how many hundreds of cows grandfather worked the farm whenever he was in high school and then at some point shortly thereafter
he was like their farm hand and he ended up going to college and getting married. My grandmother and I think at some point they retired it after that, and did your dad have to work on the dairy farm at all, or was it already done? That was my mom's dad. My dad's dad owned an excavating business my dad and his brothers worked the tractors. So I come from a very hardworking family, dairy farmers. That's a hard life yeah hard life like a really good, wholesome life and I just grow up in a really wholesome family in a really wholesome town and damn my dad being a football coach. Just really oils drove me loved me, but drove me and thick. He, the one thing he taught me was: don't you ever? Could
anything don't ever quit, and so you know it didn't matter how uncomfortable things got in my mind, I'm like I'm, not quitting. I don't have a quit in me. Did you play sports? I was a cheerleader I probably would have been more athletic. Had my I've been in my life and my parents that we hear what he was my life, but not unlike a dad way, you know he was, my parents were divorced I saw him spring break women's during the summer. Over christmas by, in a day to day I was raised by my mom and cheese Did you do to your Helen? How long do you cheerleading for from the time I was in seventh grade to senior in high school jams for europe. Yeah. I remember I was working and my middle daughter. She did gymnastics and then she That's like a little there's a little there's little off ramp or little on ramp to cheer leading right and so
She was doing gymnastics masks she got on that little ramp and an Al Qaeda gang. You know like it. Doesn't seem like it's the thing that you want. Your daughter to do at least for me right and then two things happen, one of whom was this woman seal that I work with, whose an awesome woman, I told us a year I my daughter's is doing. Cheerily is gonna, do cheerleading and this woman, I did cheerleading and it was awesome and I was like really. She goes yeah you're out there you're standing in front of people you're projecting your voice, and I was like okay, fair enough and my daughter only did it for a couple of years. Then she then she got were committed to wrestling The was also that another thing that happened was one of my bodies was also had a daughter whose also dear doing cheerleading and
like him he's kind of making fun of me. He goes. Oh you. Let your to carry his daughter to ensure that we might actually work the baku in chile, but he's gonna make fun of me, because I guess how those who make the cheerleading type a dad and whose oh you let me ordered you to lady, and I go yeah. You know I figure either letter due to cheerleading or he comes home with a tattoo on her face when she sighed eighteen right. That's what happens you like pressed well your kids. Are you like steer on where you prevent them from doing something they're going to rebel hard against you and end up on the wrong path, so anyways she did chilling for a little bit all good! and what did you do? Good and school? Oh yeah, I was pretty much a straight. I stood Did you? What did you want to do when you grow up? Did you did you want to go to college echoes the deal, so my parents, or both? raised in this really small town day when the same
last together and have this sort of crush on each other, since they are in third grade all the way through in a junior high school high school prom king and queen captain of the football team captain of the cheerleading team, like like in a day was everything was my two two sides of and one little town, but my dad. These big aspirations to be a football coach, and so he actually got em the floor. I jus university of illinois and that's where he ended up going for his first coaching is first coaching gag and from that point on, when he got out of the little town, he always said to me you get out of here as soon as you can cause. He knew I know there wasn't the opportunity for me there that I would need to in that he wanted me to have in life. I don't think he thought markets would be made
get out of there, but you know he helps facilitate the all right. So, let's get to that, so you end up getting recruited to go play football. I did at southern illinois and and I were your dad was a head coach there. Yes, that point he'd been from you ve you into my aim. If Ohio and then got the head for the head for bugging job it, southern illinois university and now was about ten minutes from this little town that I grew up in. So he was thirty four years old and he was the head coach and of you know our our hometown team at big school about twenty five thousand students with division, one yeah, it's the it's. The enrollments really gone down significantly like a lot of schools, but it was It was the large go back then yeah and you in you get recruited, diwan yeah. It awesome, so I got hurt in high school. I wind up not playing my senior. What was the injury tour, a couple of ligaments in my wrists, my throwing wrist. I tried to play through it.
For a couple of years and they never actually no one ever knew it was torn. I just kept having this like I'd land on it wrong, and you know had this like screaming pain, finally got an m r. I and they're like yeah you're you're, several torn ligaments. That's why you're in pain so that we can do surgery now you'll, miss football season, but you'll be back for baseball season or you can play football season and then have surgery after but you'd miss baseball season and so just chat with in a dad. I was, excelling more in baseball and we decide. You know what was hang up. Football have the surgery and we'll get you, Four baseball's. As you said, what you is this, what was his native land, but what school year was it like? This was your junior year. This was my summer yeah summer summer, going into a senior guy
and so we decided to go ahead with the surgery in and they went in and the deck and author scope and they found like the ligaments torn and then they just one hadn't The back- and I remember it was a long recovery is like some six months, and this is this is so my dad. So I get done get the surgery go through. You know how long I was in a cast. Get the cast off litter we came home from getting the cast off after being in a fight. Four months is it was long, as is weird, and he he literally put drab two minutes and pulled me onto the beach and he's like through the wall. I'm not in the making. It should first off, like a king, imagine the size difference. It was like my wrist is like this big and done anything. I pick up the ball and this is no shit
not a trophy for baseball or football or baseball cause they're, trying to just trying to get rebates. I literally threw it like a foot in front of me. I didn't even know- and I didn't even know what to say daddy. I can't like I'm in a lot of pain, then get mad. He like yeah, I found that this is so fucking weird I got mad at me like it was my fault that I couldn't throw this baseball after I just got at it anyway, so so in baseball, didn't have a great season. Just played an and my younger football coach Tom Crawley. I consider colleague, must and dad quarterback coach, and he just said: hey man you're, so talented he's like. I think you should play football in junior college. Like you're, you know I you know, I think you have something you should do that. So you're not kind throw it around. I went ok, I'll I'll, take your advice and I started throwing him in the summer and I wanna be rolling in
nasa community college in new york and nassau over your head, like top ten football, they always sent literally anywhere between fifteen and twenty guys, to division one and in big division ones like oh, how state my and things like that, and so I was going to a real place to play. When I showed up man, I was I was skinny ass. Seventeen going to my fresh miracle, college. Damn you were young yeah. It was. I was wrong, dad for all is pushing through the held your ass back with minors dude to underwrite so I show up again six for one eighty- and I mean these- this is division. One junior college is gasser massive from like brooklyn. In the bronx. In these guys, like straight up mediators and am now you know, I belong so I hung in as as a freshman you get richer. Did I went
practice everyday. I worked hard and I turned eighteen that decision. But my freshman year and light in February. I went from six for one eighty text: four to twenty five year, such as on a programme didn't jack, jack and yeah scare us actually yeah felt like it felt like a human after that will end I didn't know you then, but from what I gather all that pent up frustration from bullies of your childhood? You started making it our increase desire. We ve talked about this so yeah, so so with the increase, weight and size. Yes, amorous correct, I did I'm sorry you into a lot of fights. Shaka really stupid, like dumb, like all the time, a lot and it was like- and this is when you're at this community college edges fed me. I think, because of the years of maybe you know dad and then being skinny
costly gettin harassed. I finally put on some way- and I would just snap every time we went the matter where any bar I was getting unify, guess our electoral guy you drink and now at this age? Yes, that doesn't that doesn't subdue fighting, doesn't help at all doesn't help yeah, I think growing up on long island. I actually remember the first time we drank because it was all my highschool buddies freshman year believe was memorial day like hey memorial day, we're all going to get together. We're gonna go get couple of cases the ground, the beach we drink, some beer- and I remember saying how can like how can you something in your body, and it makes you act weird like I don't I don't get it like. I honestly did not get it and we were having this argument like I don't get it like. I could drink. Ten of these, like I'm going to be fine. I think I remember at some point it at night, like
being the point literally and so don't don't drink, really do muslim. Your first you're like twelve or thirteen recently literally thirteen the ideas fourteen about by because was a second my freshman year so do did you keep drinking through? This was The thing are not really well yeah yeah. I know I I drank, but I drank, and I drank on the week, and when we went out- and so never during the week amber stone in front of me that I was in bed. He had a bedtime nine pm until he left the house lit through senior year of high school,
like not even during senior year. Was this a mandated by the old man this is mandated by mom okay like, but at that point, though, I didn't think for myself at all. I was just like. Oh it's, eight thirty. I need to get ready and go to bed. The light was on and my mom's screaming down like markets shut the light off going to bed. You gotta get up in the morning and catch the train. You know me and my embers out at my house in college, to like three in the morning, but we'll talk we'll get into that after yeah, so where are you are you? Are you thinking through high school? You think about the military at all, no not at all. I mean I didn't. I didn't think much jacko, I'm just starting to come into thinking that doubling in earnest and if you're, so we focused on what it s like this in a desert but yeah. I didn't take the only thing, the only connection I had to the military. My grandfather had a purple heart. It was in the house. I do know this sweet purple, heart
and a purple rose, and he mentioned it was from a mortar attack. Fighting the I think, fighting in northern africa against the italians And but use another guy who evidently done a lot of fights, because I guess World series was a lot different from world war two or they would fall like your rank away like when you weren't on the battlefield. You know if you got in trouble like he did and then, when he came back, animals. Some weird story that I listened to. His probably completely wrong come from my dad so that's the only like real line. Your dad was in the army, where he was by. I think an I don't think I dunno if he got. Where your damage hit around with your dad, the happy with the army have using mp his dog handle. That's all heard about going home, missus ferocious dog. Bid everybody sunlight
so you're your shitty dog cause. We had a few of those guys to give you any impression of like you have you know the military military's dumb or you shouldn't join it or whatever or anything like that, absolutely yeah. He was you know he. Never. I don't think he ever talked about it negatively. Just just why are just wasn't there got in, and I wasn't with a crew of like in a first response. Their families I police and fire. So I just didn't: have that it knows more. Like artisan and but nothing negative, nothing ever negative, but really know? I was never just wasn't part of my life. I was raised a patriot This was an. I have a letter that I'm framed, that I wrote in third grade on veterans day and it was its
funny to read that bag, but even as a nine year old. Unlike you, how about you, I am: were your parents, military or where's, your dad, melter granddaughter anything? My great grandmother had five brothers in world war, two and two or three of them were killed. One of them was a p, w, and so you know I just it wishes, stolen me that we love america and we honour our military but I didn't ever think I wanted to be married to someone in the military. That's a whole different ballgame right, I was also you know. My hometown was so small and it wasn't you know a very there. Wasn't a lot of money in the area that I grew up and so people that joined the miller.
Here in my hometown. Couldn't afford college. It was just a way to pay for college so, like I have this great appreciation, but I also I was completely dumb to like what the mill, what military service actually was. Alright. So let's get into this, how the coach's daughter I mean: how does this go about? This can be controversial. She wrote this is the goose is like taboo? Is there anything more taboo than oh? That's the coach's daughter, cool yeah. That's where I'm going to go! Yeah! That's exactly it! So I and the southern illinois and in I was at ninety six amber india and should I think our target into how united so ok, when I was first looking at the like the media guide, for what he was before. I even went to southern own. I am still in new york. I saw that coach watson headed had obviously had a family in there and had a daughter
just again. Never, even as I allowed interesting that that's came across my mind, but that was it like put that away now for like two more years- and I shall at school and I think about a year and a half in is I met. You at cook is now at a golf tournament I didn't even see you there. You can see me, I saw you got on me. Are you really angry? I'm pissed off? If you were there. Yeah yeah, so we yet we did. I I guess volunteer for this. Golf torn and then and I remember seeing amber, they are like at the table and she was angry- and I remember guy saying, like that's coach, what's his daughter, your honour would like her to stay away from our lives, trying to keep people at bay to scowling at everyone or war was up with now. I think I was probably and are now ending, owes probably trauma
ties by having to be there soph, so that's the first time or you are marcus at this point. Are you like a full on like just straight beard, swilling jock? Yes, that will dealing with one hundred percent, but a nice, but I was a nice jack. I dunno, if that makes lace, but your adding a lot of fighting a la still fighting along when you get to college, so the oh yeah, oh gotcha, I mean we'll go into, I mean I was suspended from amber's dad. My all sophomore year after I just got named the starting quarterback over four seniors? So your dad's great in recruiting me, but not in the choice of of personality so that night I go out go to fraternity party. Night. You get named as a starting point it s. So europe more frequent stoked and I've been hearing about him and you know, like the whole area, had been hearing about him. You get like this.
Big good, looking guy from new york minutest, whose aimed marcus capone, and so I'm like hearing this buys. But how did you meet him? when he gets name now or back no and apparently we'd better, that golf tournament bed, I didn't know, did. He was and got it so or are you so we go out myself, the fullback who was my roommate who's, just a stud. You know like six hundred four hundred pound guy squat bench. You know that type of dude and can run like a four five. Forty, and we go to this fraternity party, which is really off limits. Propyl athletes and in return is really didn't mix Was that for libraries officially like you're not allowed to go to him or Joe is more you just don't, because those guys were high school athletes that can play in college, and so there was a little bit of like a bad blood
we went because a lot of the female trainers that you go and get your fridge ice and- and you know your elbow in ice or get hooked up to stem or whatever, and they were all sorority. They invited us three of us went and right from the this gecko. You can tell just it's in the air. You know exactly what I'm talking about here: you'd feel the energy and theirs is not going our direction and one thing that to another and the next thing you know, there's literally a whole fraternity house on top of us in the middle, the yard. There are so many of them, I think, was lucky. I things which saved us because there were so many that they came to us like punch and kick and everything else, but I do remember like being on the ground and going and they can't even get to us as there are so many of them. I remember this hand. I could feel as hand like coming up like my arm and then my shoulder and then my neck, and then I get to my face and the like just start like
raking me like breaking eggs, goes out of former. I can do anything about it. For somehow the best, so somehow before back my roommate cross, underneath all them in charge, is the wooden fence and It literally hits and knocks the whole fence down the yard. So I can tell how well these fences were made in a college called collegiate house pieces of crap the fence goes down which enables us to gal fixed now we're out of the yard. Some standing in the street like my eye- is completely read like they made now it's it's it's gettin and scratched I'm missing a sandal, my shirts rift I'm standing in three cursing and
we we cool down a little bit and we go walking back to the the dorms go to bed, because I was a fund I getting getting jumped by fraternity house, the pikes and actually meet him. There shout out, I guess I'm just jealous and and we we come across the street. We we we, we cross the strip, all the bars and clubs are at and out on the street. This club is emptying and it's the all the governor what you were coming out there like marcus. What's going on with what we want, the fuck happened to you like you know that the pike see they jumped does, and these guys
was drunk. That was a ride, so they decided they going to go back to the fraternity house. So, like thirty dudes go back to the fraternity house, I follow behind them and when I get there, it's complete mayhem. People getting breaks busted out her face. I watched a person. The nfl pick up a I grill a grill and throw it on somebody. So it was. It was that type of shit going on and- and I was like wow so least you could hear pleasaunce coming and like everybody, splits and kind of the rest is history. I get brought in because I was the only white guy at the at the fight. They couldn't identify anybody there and they wanted me to give up all the names of the guys over there, and I was like.
No chance or even of those are actually so because I will not give up any names your day amber suspended me for the whole season, god, and because they couldn't identify anybody, and so I wind up being suspended for pretty much that and that was kind of crushed your dad's, a hard ass. I mean well, I use pressured, know my dad is very principled and on the same hand, my dad, you know, is trying to turn this programme around and his entire team would have been out so Marcus took the punishment for them What team and I I know he felt that about that, but I also know that he respected mark is not giving up anyone's names and it coincidentally saved, has asked to ensure, but
I remember that thing because I had worked really hard all summer to save money for a car and we were going to go, buy the car and I had I had picked the car out. We're supposed to go in with you and your dad, no religious me, you just go back like it wasn't. It was a local, Why? But evidently some of the Gaza fraternity houses dad's, were in car hire positions in chicago so if it made national news because the eight guys got sent to the hospital so yeah, it was like a who's, not good. That's legit scrap and I had a few drinks as you can it was pretty much scrap for sure. So I had picked out. This car had been working so hard for it. My dad's been so busy and we were going to go on Saturday morning at ten. Am something- and I call my dad and I'm like totally ready and he goes like no honey. My quarterback caused the biggest fight last night. You have no idea the shit storm. I'm dealing with
It's like scooter, korobotchka hate him are even know em his all I wanted was I waited so long to get this car so anyway. That was also the beginning of my independence of being like in what I'll look go, go, negotiate this deal and that's exactly what I did so that was sort of how I came to know like who Marcus even was because it was all over the news and then saw his picture in the paper, and I was immediately like, oh They'll know the guy is so high and like fast forward, probably here, my best friend had drink too much at of bowling alley. Flash night club and I had to go pick her up I was not happy about that either, and so, when I walked in a went,
the back door and the bouncer opened the door it. So I could get in together and markets to sit like bleak from needed. Him right now used right there, and I was like immediately taken so a back, and I just had a year that it will maker and that we sparked this conversation. I owe- and I was so smitten, but I didn't. I don't think I let on like. I was, and I saw you there every week for like four weeks I went back every week. And then he wasn't there one week and his friend it was about. Sir. There took my number and gave it to marcus and call me that night and we hung out for the first time on July. Fourth them ninety ninety, seven and women thick sense the end so they give suspended, was at your sophomore year my sophomore year you get suspended. There are you The practice like what you do. Yes, sire.
Yeah doesn't work ass. I work my ass off I practiced. Every day I went to treatment room in a three days. Three times a day still went to study hall, which we had to do every evening, and then I broke down every found, so I'd have to watch hours and hours of every play from every angle of area coming game and then right in take notes and like all defensive coverages and psych? I learned you know I I learned, but it was miserable because I couldn't play on what did you think of my dad? I was thinking about Rossi. Well, you know this is your relationship with my dad link. Is it was good now We always had a good relationship. I mean I was angry because I didn't get to. I didn't get to play. Like how did he treat you, then he treat me well,
was filmed from. It seems like there's a little bit of mutual respect like he respect kind of respect, the fact that you didn't rat anybody out, he actually said hey. I said that too. They all said that because they were like can save the season, because if you, if any of those you know they were all The are all the titles right, so you were good guys, so they weren't yeah they weren't. Angry they just like you're an idiot when you got caught too. What are you doing at the pike house? You know that that's so there was one time when we were dating, but we hadn't been dating for too long that Marcus came home from practice and said your dad knows, and I was like oh what do you mean my dad and yet that's after you out and went to north west yeah, so we were never dating when my dad was their god in that year, the markets whose birth.
Can down film and what not. At the end of that year, my dad took a job at northwestern and so a new coach had come in and I met you win win coach queue at taken over the team. God already a her, he did find out. You call him. He was not happy with her the year. I was seven I will use my senior year high, followed him and how old are you at the sport warranty? Oh yeah, there's not a happy that I got three daughters, man yeah you and we have I have a sophomore san, diego state idea here, just pepper spray and taste. Well your whole, call it because I didn't. I respect my dad a lot and I wanted to call him a sort of like had this off in when a marxist coaches, who is still friends with them, said, like a coach watson, knows they you're dating his daughter
so. I called him and he was icloud. Honey. I won t this, he said molly This is one of the few players. I can say that I truly love like, I love that kid he's like, but. He's a womanizer and he will break your heart and if he breaks your heart, you tell him I will break his neck. Oh there you go right on coming in hot. He hit a yeah, he had, he had a temper yeah. He had a real temper on the field. He had a temper temper everywhere, he's an amazing human being So sir, your dad leaves from coaching that job the next year now at your junior year in college, are you starting as a quarterback? No, they brought in a really good quarterback from Missouri who actually split time at university of Missouri, with one of the guys who's up for the heisman. So really after the I feel, like everything, just went down hill after that so
do we still on the team are still the team, a cylinder, scarlet stolen scholarship. So I this guy came in and you know we're actually really close to to this date. I can't scania he's a very successful in in Missouri, it's in ST louis and actually is a that, is always my remain on the road, but he yahoo. When he was like a true quarterback from the midwest like this guy could swing the ball all over the place. I played quarterback more as linebacker, and that was our different. So I would you know I would put my head down and you know he would. He would throw the ball. You know and and slide, and things like that and. And finally, they moved me over to tighten my senior just because I I wasn't going to get on the field with him, but we we actually split time,
in the first couple of games of the season and I did well, but he wind up like kind of taking command and control and and and he was like a true leader- true quarterback has a bit of a knucklehead and want to get in fights and run linebackers, over and yeah so that some well at what was what point in your life when you are going to play in the nfl I mean from when I was Five jako! That's what I wanted. That's what I wanted to do. I should rephrase that he know there had to be a point in your life when you will get a replay in the nfl. When did that dream go out like when did that flame Extinguish that flame extinguished, my was my Before my senior year psych, I popped for tat path for testosterone does using you. You're of college.
Going into the senior year so mark is removing outside annual started tight and put on some weight roger that so I've friend found some testosterone. Sipping aden got, got bulky and faster, and I remember we were doing off season work out and the quarterback who who we're about to say, speed I put on twenty pounds and then I started beating him in the inn in sprints psyche with But how do you gain weight and be fashion in me, all the a and so the anti double? I came in actually three weeks early and few us papa's infer, for performance enhancing drugs, so that like our. I knew a guy. There was a bikes bicycle rider and he said that when europe or maybe I just heard this on a I dunno, where I heard this. I think I just gotta know who said like he's by greater and he said when someone's answer on juice. It's like there on a hard,
like you literally just care hang with em they're. Just that much better. So did you feel like I mean, sounds like. Did you put on twenty pounds and you gotta faster? How you mean I can dunk a basketball just from a straight vertical vertical leap? Yes, it's pretty pretty pretty potent stuff when you when you're abusing it like that. Now, when you're like using it for like replacement therapy, you know where they try to keep your levels around seven or eight hundred we're talking about. Twenty four hundred, two thousand. You know your blood, your blood levels or through the roof and debate Do you realize your guide during this guide year? Silence like this is strainers better bro science know Google. This. With three my buddy said: oh yeah, that I was in the marine corps, the sky. Two ec steroids in high school and yeah. We think it's ok you're we find so you
pop positive any nor the answer was tested back then yeah. I guess I'm just the earlier there they tested everybody, and say to test their bodies random, but until then don loris out there and I'm done. So you said that's the moment when you realize the nfl what is happening and if you first this. Had your dad feel about that before you go when you ve got so amber now, isn't it I know you're dead, already left the co uk echoed called. They were happy you, but everything you they were always like guys on workers is his fault. You know it was. It must be some area, my parents, also, your parents were like they shifted, blame they covered for europe, but for your dad must have been realised that the dream was over. Probably history the nfl dream history has unfolded which, by the way I had like a one in like a trillion chance of making it to the nfl for sure for sure, but you gotta, I mean I
seems like anybody in pursuing any athletic pursuit. That hard is gonna. Think well meant appeal. Making that at some point you go out there you want you want to go as hard as far as you can see. I mean that's, that's all you know literally so you know I mean I remember getting in the tea and telling guys and buds ike did. I never turned a ranch like all. I did all my dad had me do play ball, literally in us, I learned a lot just you know that that's. Why thought? Just a teacher so excited learning, like man, shit and outside of europe playing ball which a lick it. Now. I don't remember the last time I watched a sporting event right. You know I kind of frowned upon some stuff, that's going on it's it's gross, but here is this: when you started thinking about going in the day in a t, what was the eyes the trigger there? You're gonna love this. This is what is right of your colleague jacko, so my roommate
Of course tat was asean. Vietnam. I don't think you are He may have been a marine wait, what roommate jason jason testimonial? Oh, we live in the apartment, murmur yeah, I didn't know he was powerless, sorry, no he's part of the story. I'm just thinking you know he said I'm going to love this story, so I figured at least one of your brother, your one of your friends. Dad was you're going to love it, but then you're going to scratch your head to be like alright we're going to go with this marcus. So where we're sitting, The apartment. One night in this guy actually started as a freshman wind up when we graduated, I went the navy, he went. The marine corps, flew f eighteens, you know, did the whole the whole thing top gun and all that all that good stuff and then, of course, the marine corps, what they do to their guys, who go to flight school fly of eighteens and go to top gun. You would expect them to continue flying. They handed him an m sixteen and put them on the ground.
I understand. You know with all that training. I guess as a fact, that's what the marine corps does. That's one of the best things that they do is because those guys can talk to aircraft better than anybody else hundred and one hundred percent ne did, but he did complain because you said man, you know they spent all this money on training me how to fly and he was like. I was really good at it and then I'm on the fucking ground in Afghanistan, dodging mortars. You know which never ever signed up to do so. Interesting here from his prerogative like they don't like they don't like it. You know that they want to fly and other stuck calling cast one maya. What am I really good friends was, the same thing: the marine corps. F, eighteen top gun top gun instructor top. One senior instructor, then he was a faq on the ground. He was agricole team leader in ramadi with us just getting after it and it's funny because he taught like all the stuff he did in the marine corps. He taught like.
He talks about what he did for this one six month appointed to remedy because a lot different than what it was as cause. We tell me in an air, conditioned cocked hat. You know twenty thousand feet up there, s right! Yes, you're right, I mean those guys. Can you imagine what kind of perspective they get out our own and then go back up there? No wait a minute like I know it was like down there that's that's the marine corps, and I I've read some great stories about like the korean war, those those marine corps, pilots that would go and deploy there like the marines, everyone loved them, because they they can just talk to those pilots where they need to be talked to so I mean and look we have the J tax. There's j tax are awesome too, but in the marine corp just when the way they do it and it's pretty freaky So this guy is your roommate some I remain so I come home with her on the tv and on comes this movie and looking
It and you know it's got people run around and I think you're talking about sean. No, I'm not. Okay, no you're! You are at once. Amazon cameras incorrect two times out of a hundred always ninety percent right to everyone we living with him. Yet we lived here. Remember six months I dont. Remember I'm sorry, sir god. It's all good lobby and analysed so deejay, so georgi tat. I was going to get to the point. I have no idea who goes on tv and like that, what is this, and they start talking about. You know these you. It's and this, and that and I have when you were talking about exposure to the military, I hadn't I had none. So if I had exposure, I could
Maybe call this out right away. This was it. This is my military. I'm like I want to do that, and this looks hard. They said these are the best of the best right because they talk about it in there, not not demi moore, but the rest of it So that's. What actually just told me that there's a unit out there that special and supposed to be the toughest training in the world. And that's that's what piqued my at my initial interest to start to look into it go Let me just look into what this says, and so you know, then I read the first book because back then, who is There is nothing online about the teams, so I just I Ed. I literally read every book from vietnam. I mean everything follow it and the more I read the more I got like focused and the more hungry and and and then nothing else, matters do you start.
Training at this point I did I did, and you also met someone who is, I saw you and he was sealed right, yeah how you, oh god, I forgot his name from yeah from containing a car, for I remember I know you're talking about yeah. I thought he was like lil boosie show what michelle Vega will be shell and so imagine you're you're in college. You know it is you and your team guy or in highschool, and then you go. You find out that there's a guy, It was a team guy. So he of course he you know he's people's throats behind enemy lines like so everytime. I saw this guy I was like I was in awe of course, then, when I got the team that, like all that shit, but now I'm just joking, I'm totally kidding he actually had a decent reputation but yeah. I looked up to this kid and I was just you know. I was just hungry after that jocko it was.
Nothing mattered. I call my parents, I told them what I want to do and they thought I was crazy. Amber thought I was crazy. As you know, once you get on that that path, nothing else matters and it's nothing but focus and discipline in like that's it. What did you do Who will you drop in weight where you cause? If I stop lifting that's what I did so all I knew was like sport lifting heavy weights and I completely I stopped lifting and all I did was bodyweight workout and so the typical, like Stu smith. I think I had maybe the book you know push. Ups pull ups sit ups dips, Nobody taught me how to do any these by nobody. Tommy had even like Aren't you like. I didn't do anything I can never jogged. I just went out and ran like six miles. Everything was like forty arts, britain, or maybe hundreds, but that was it, and so I but I was like jogging at a good pace until I ran with.
Sean toll, who was in the army for a long time, I went for a run with him and were you jogging slower or faster or slower? Okay, I was like. Oh, this is good. I'm like I'm working out jogging. This is this is yagi and he crushed me, like I couldn't even could barely keep up with them is like I'm. Let him run at higher pay someone who shit this is like, so he brought me up to another level that I just didn't know about, and so then I started jogging stir into this. What you're doing your senior year is my son college senior senor college, and it was like this summer, for your senior year that you decided to do this. He came to inside he wanted to be a seal and of course, there was no eleven I didn't know it a seal was, I really didn't, know the difference between the army in the navy. Although I was I knows patriotic, but then I also thought that you mean them. Literary wasn't for me, based on what I knew about kids for my hometown, that when in it
and so I thought you notice a great jumping off point, because Marcus was so captives and so cute and such kind of a check in the bow x for me to be like. I did it, I say you quarterback, I don't expect that will say together in I thought. Maybe we date for the summer, no one ever and we ve been together at that for two and a half years and I met him at seventeen, sir, Oh, you know in my mind, like no other guy had ever existed, because he was everything to me, but at the same time I knew that I was young and I was in a very independent in I was raised it only child. I have two half brothers who I love like like brothers and I consider them brother, But I was raised an only child, and so I wanted to be independent and wanted to be. I wanted to graduate in and move to, maybe chicago or saint louis.
I at some point, even though, like maybe I'll move to l, a or new york I just wanted to be, and when he told me he wanted to go into the military. I thought this. This is perfect, because that kind of thinking this and were young and probably not going to stay together and get married. So by jumping off point, you mean jump off the the friggin markets train your own way, yeah, but in a healthy way, all good. We talked about it and he's like you know. These are my goals, and this is my vision and I'm like I'm. You know I'm couple of years behind you school and I wanted to russia sorority. I wanted to be young than be. Not be in this committed relationship, and so we we had it super the committee decided to break up through you break up, and this is how far when did you talk to recruiter, showed us that such talk about next. Why did I just went on the strip same place? Where runs the guy's coming out of the club
he was recruiting. There's a rink or navy recruiting station there, and I went to talk to the navy recruiter and he was a. He was a diver combat diver and he was really cool, like really cool, when you just said: hey he's like you're you're at the you're at school here right and I said yeah, he said well, you know you can be an officer I was like. What's that I literally said: what's that kind of knucklehead right and he's like? Well, you know you go to college, you get your degree and you know you could become an officer in the military and most people that are enlisted don't go to college and they enlist and kind of explained. It said, okay, well, that that's It's cool like. Let's do that, and so he handed me off to saint louis, which was running. I guess they think they. Managed lingering offers very odd sort of agreement.
And and again I didn't like have I had no mentors and, as you know, a lot of the you know the officers that go on either go to the academy or they have you know congressmen like they. They have a better network. I just didn't know anybody, and so I was training on my own and then the day. Had to he drove the the the officer recruiter drove down from saint louis and met me. At the university to take my like party seal partido, I borrowed a pair of been training and snow. There's a board a pair of boots because I don't have any had web is emphasised. Fourteen the only size I was available me, I think, was like eleven and a half or twelve. So literally Squeezed my feet, entities sized twelve. About the second lab in I completely like both my legs. Cramped up.
Finish: the rhine discharging pushups and I'm doing when they call him grasshopper, pushups alike, leg it'll, half push up your elbows are in. Instead of like out here, he's like stop what he goes, your those aren't, those aren't ups. Those are. We call those grasshopper pushups as a it's the only ones that I know either. So I'm going to keep going. As I know you you can't because they don't count, you have to move your arms here, so the hotel, It was a complete failure, like I fucked that thing up completely and I found out. Of course I didn't get picked up for for spec war, but I got picked up for every other officer program so you come in, go to new goods, whatever swell you became king buds, and you can transfer after two years and I want yeah, but you know the reason you know just the only time I actually thought a little bit and the only reason I'm going in the military is that it'd be a team guy
and- and so I just told him like now- I you know I want to go to buds and he said well, you can just go back to the you know the recruiter and you can enlist it's a great game, you're right, you're right we shook hands. I took my you know my little packet that I already started building my record and went back to the recruiter and I think I enlisted right there like son meps. I think it was there. You are absorbed early, apps things, no death, stipulate, ensure yes how's. It lapses. Where I met some goes you exactly you're right, sir who else? How long was it like when you unlisted how many, how long you have to wait before you believe it was quick? yeah yeah, we we can get in that story, but from when I talked to the recruiter, I think he was about six months asked. You know. I'd show up every month and they'd have like little gatherings whenever, but I'm still training and start to get a little bit indoctrinated into the into the military
wait so you're a school where you guys split up when you actually signed the papers know we were actually living together, dang- and I don't remember that now, I'm just and yeah you're, just training and getting ready, and we knew that the end was coming, but we are still together and then you sign the papers and now you've got your date. Hey you're going to leave on the state, I'm gonna ITALY, I'm going to leave on this date, so that june fifteenth two thousand and When did you tell you are also finishing it? He had his last semester in school somewhere around it in december, and then you did you more than I do my internship demands, which have for weak no four months at the breakers foreshorten palm beach florida. What does it was determined orange was like resort management. I basically I paid to be
about a boy like objectives are literally in two weeks run the children's by kid programme whose are you did from December until until April in April, yet to April came back, graduated didn't walk and they really care about like walking across the stage to me that was web. We're missing a huge chunk of their don't go to vines. The story will obviously has well in may two thousand. Ok good, so in the summertime July august school starting is when we decided this will be our last semester together. I knew he was going to leave at the end of the semester, also had an aunt who was dying of breast cancer, and so and I was working full time. I had eighteen credit hours. I was working thirty hours a week. My aunt was dying and so
for a couple of months. I was thinking like I'm, not sure I feel quite right, but I just kept delaying what I would soon realized was the inevitable which was taking a pregnancy tests. Oh and I finally took this test in october and I had been pregnant since august. So I was about twelve weeks pregnant with our sun. When I found out- and he was set to leave in tomb, in December said, leave for the navy enter in time for the unity of our later. Ok, so got it now track, and I am such contract story, so he saw was a world and what did you do remain so freaked out completely freaked out and markets
so supportive initially he's like he's like this is going to be fine like we're going to be parents, it's going to be fine, and here he is like all this, these dreams and plans- and I was the one freaking out and then he told his parents and they freaked out and when they free. Out he freaked out when he freaked out. I really freaked out there's a lot of freaking out of those long line. You, king freaking out shoe, rose downhill. I just thought linked by legs over its apps. I was so excited about this new beginning and it's over and dumb. I now see that is the beginning. Does the beginning of everything? Thank god? Well, so you find out in october then in December, you're gonna be a cabana boy and forthright command a boy, but meanwhile urine expecting dad at the same time, right at twenty twenty two years old.
You're already know you're going to join the navy, jesse Then. What's the call them The call is I go to my internship because due to graduate or graduate amber stays back. Did you did you? Did you go to school in the spring? Oh yeah, he did okay, so Emma's pregnant she's going to school in the spring, I'm in palm beach florida working as a cabana boy and snorkeling in the evenings and that kind of training my ass off down there and I I did but you're working, seventeen jobs or whatever eighteen you're. Just like I think I took fifteen then in the spring, but yeah I was working full time and going to school. I was nine months pregnant taking finals. It was amber, worked forever like from the day I met her. She was always working like cotton nonstop and it hasn't stopped. The only reason we're still here and yes, she worked
ass off, she really dead, she's a grinder, and then how did this whole scenario impact your decision to go in the navy. It didn't mean it really didn't like I was. This is what I want to do. I know twenty three. I I I didn't: do I didn't even think about what it was like to start a family, but then again, what what were we supposed to? Do I supposed to graduate and get a job? You know like. Well, here's a job, yeah yeah me, here's your here's, your job! How you make you know? How are you making money again? My dad handed me a ball when I was three and I didn't know, I was scared to death. Honestly, I remember saying I'm supposed to put on a shirt and tie now and go step off in the private sector and get a job in so doing what and making what to support support the family like. I was scared to death to then once started really think about it, but the navy seem like the viable option
the naming the name have a fairly. The navy seemed at that time comfortable the a paycheck care, paycheck hauser yet more, and I think that some of the probable vice I got from individuals. I don't remember me, I think. Maybe I talked to a few. Does the hey you, you know I shall be taking you'll be taken care of you make a few hundred dollars more. If you're married and at that time and you don't have any money- and I was thinking in my parish. Parents not supporting us- and I mean amber's family of course would have, but we do not think we were think about that, sir. You gonna get married prior to having well, we spent most of my pregnancy apart and not just because he was in florida. It's because we had this whole, like existential crisis, where we didn't know how to make this new curveball
and there is there were several months when I thought I was gonna raises baby. You know I I abso really thought about ending the pregnancy, and I couldn't there was no way I could, and I thought I don't care what this means. I don't care how hard the says, I'm just going to figure it out and
Do you know, even if that meant doing it by myself and Marcus, was in the kids area like he had alluded to earlier, and we had picked our son's name before he left and at the time no one was naming their kid kayden. It was like he wanted to name him cadence. I think we saw on a baby name book and he's like. Oh, it's like the quarterback colin cadence is like bennett, sounds like a girl's name. So let's shorten it, and there was this little baby that came in when he was at the breakers named kayden and we'd never heard that name before, and so he called me that night and he was like. I can't do this anymore, let's figure this out and so
and every named Caitlin Katie named him kayden of battle of war. That's the that was the ready for battle ready for battle. That's the that was the meanings. That was a cool name check. Why not? I mean I tried to call them nikko. A veto in major were his three names of choice by the guy going, not so yeah. We knew we can was born in may. Of two thousand markets came back proposed and we got married in june of two thousand and then six days later, he he left for boot camp to typical sure most americans, for it did you stay like at home in illinois idea. You have four blue cameron. Everything is no point in yeah. I couldn't even answer in a move that maybe wasn't gonna move me by uncle. And then he had to go to a school and seasonal, be sooner attack, and so when,
is finished with sea school and human skin ready fur buds in doc. I was able to me Thou kane was nine months all the time, so I was twenty one I had never been, way. From my little in a tiny town in southern illinois and we move to the town, where's and Coronado, and so he would we walk to work like in a two binds every morning. We had no money, no written in the money at a thousand to perpetuate and our rent with adults say what was the rent or one thousand thousand, so he got a little bit help from mom and dad a little bit I don't really really really didn't you're right. We just racked up a lot of credit card bills. It now your own into buds rolling How are you how's your preparation or you good? I'm good yeah really get He you join in may june july
wind September eleventh. When is that what you're career where you app yeah, we should remember eleven guidance. Will you and ask all or get into it now? I was in their face o day on before that lotta, sir. Let's start with first phase, I mean how's that going you you're. First phase was a first phase was good, so I showed up one hundred and seventy five started With one in seventy five pounds, no, no, no I'm sorry the number of people in the class broader. So I guess I show up and I look around and there's a lot. I mean that's a lot of people hundred and seventy five is a lot and all I keep hearing is one of the four going to make it like twenty five percent and I'll say. The first thing I thought of is how how can I be one of these one in four? There are so many people here and I'm again, I'm I'm. I don't even consider myself, I'm not a big
I compared to like the guys I played ball with in college, but but everybody else there was like a marcus. Is a big guy, oh yeah, for sure how tall are you six? Four and how much did you weigh when you started, but like tuna caught tuna quarter to twenty five? That's a big dude going through butts yeah and I always that's why I was like just turn. Nineteen and I was one hundred and seventy four pounds when I got there. I was like a kid so awesome, like you probably like you here guys and budget gained weight during, but I did I gained ten pounds. I gained ten pounds but like if you you, you will what twenty three twenty four twenty three yeah sure you're like a man as a man, is not really well as like, physically physically, but I think you're twenty february questionable the instructors, if we were meant was that I think you're, twenty four when you started but was, I was counting all those years. When together so you're in pretty good shit, you're good, I'm in good shape, but this is this is what I'm getting at
so I look around and see these guys and all of a sudden. We start doing the in dock, and everybody is just in phenomenal shape. They can do pull ups forever. They can run forever or you know, I'm still a little heavy. So for me ups, I can do them, but I can't do like. I was watching guys do like twenty thirty forty fifty at one time or run our class. I swear. We had at least ten individuals might murphy. Nelson. Sanchez. These guys were running sub. Twenty four minute for my time, murph, mirth and and Sanchez would always be like that's nickname it isn't. Right. Now I never so useless. Cuba runs. I never was nego squad literally one day. One time never failed for him time run and never got good
set the one time so like for me the running I did it and I put in I got ahead of the goon squad, but it was miserable. You know what class were you in to thirty six to thirty six check and so that so third phase, shockoe so weren't third phase, oh go back to first phase yeah I am. I was in good. But but again I look around and see one hundred seventy five guys and I was I was nervous and then, after a starts, guys work out and then guys do lily doing splits. Like am I in the right place, enthusiasm these are decent free, here. You know you like olympic swimmers and all these. These these crazy intervene those men, as you know the last ice, In the loudest, that is why I did not allowed a screamers all of a sudden. You ok we're so, and so he knew he taught the shit. You can't even comprehended like we're talkin before we start where did you and I have survivors bias, meaning
every friend I have one hundred percent made it through buds. So, as far as I know, the frigate pass rate for buds is one hundred per cent like. Oh everyone mates everyone. Everyone I know made it made it, but yeah the Doping is the people that, like you, said, like a limping swimmers in a limping, listen de one. This and de one track guys and de one football players and everything and they'll just quit its saint they'll go away pretty quickly. Do Was there anything in how weak that, like trip you operate, side how ya know the reason I say, well yeah? For me? It's because the I I like sucked at everything why that suck? I was. I was okay at everything, but I had to put out really hard to pass run I had to put out really hard to pass the course I had to put out really hard to pass the swims and look at everyone's putting out, but I had to put put are really hard to pass the evolutions, but in hell week you. There wasn't is now past rail just keep going
If there is anything I'm ok at its I go, I can keep going. I will I will keep going as for me how weak was almost like a break, because you just had to keep in which I was good at everything else like I did, I failed war. I failed before form all time drawn. I I paced myself as needy. I mean I was fast enough to pace newsprint, I failed to swim and Again, like bunch people felt when I was one of them so that socked have failed in our obstacle course I probably did but like so I was kind of middle of the pack, but it was cause. I was putting out hard. So for me how weak was like cool and a bunch of people quit a bunch of people quit and I was like damn. Are you dumb? like you, a lot of those individuals were upright. Oh yeah, it's insane. We had some high peters, some like legit, I should say piper because they're, not their good athletes, right, they're, good athletes, and
it doesn't really matter. Man get tired, wet and cold. We really. I mean we had a bunch of rangers and marines in our class and we had some egyptian officers in the class and it was, it was diverse and but you know I did have trouble on the runs, but the like you, I put out So I had a really put out hard to stay up and pass the runs. I couldn't I couldn't like, keep it back a gear. You know I had a. I had a really put out, but now I everything I did was, I did? I did ok. I remember one time they pulled me out of the log pity because everybody was literally just is falling on their head and I've. Just I don't thousand Different gear and, like opponents, sit down like a higher gear like doing yeah yeah, I just felt I felt I felt good. You know with the log and they made me sit down. One time like you know just sit down because you're you're you're, damn you're you're doing all right.
It was one time at how we think it was an elephant. African elephant. Rhino elephant runs yeah when you're like holding yeah. So those was one day. I was super dehydrated and I remember this and like I thought I was going to die. And I kept trying to like pull back so like guys would run, and I would I I was literally trying to like pull it back, because I couldn't I couldn't keep up and I was getting yelled at on the guys I dunno what's going on like I can't. I can't do it the thing right now and I barely made it through that evolution. I remember it, it was. It was miserable. I remember to this day because you know how it is you just. Hits appoint right and I hit that point where I could not. I feel like I can go any further, and the only thing that kept me going was like, probably the guys behind me like kicking me in the ass, like hey dude, I keep going and and then there was a there was a. Rock hard. We used to do you see, of course thrown a pack whatever
the three miles. There was a time there also that I felt like I was about to like pass out. Something was wrong, and I remember one of the guys in the class and I'll never forget this bent souders Who in lahti, guys made fun of because he grew up in the mid west and he was a bible beater and he never kirsty I never drank and never did anything. He comes running up past me as I came out, which was wrong. He said I dunno I was like I'm I'm about to die. He's like I'm going to stay with you and I'm gonna, I'm gonna is that cool I'm like yeah? Absolutely he round me the whole way until we finished, and this was because you were dehydrated. We have no idea or whatever so It's like the two times. I just remember buds where it was like you're about to you're you're going to die. You know. Other than that life is. How are you in the poor cause? You served, I likely I liked the water. I think I some trouble with poor com
Pull can't like everybody else, does my thing. I far membrane exhalation not almost can drown because, unlike there's water going in my my tool here and it's not supposed to be. Now you come off and I'm trying to explain myself to the instructor staff and they just jump over me. Just listen just hear me out once I I was talking pull cop with any stump the other day up it due to camp, because he was an instructor he's, a third phase instructor and you know how that that bother like he's just like so larry s end, but he's too, me from like his instructor point of view of what he would do and what he would see and how he would do it like you laughing hysteric we like, and I know how many people did you I go where you like the heart instructor he's: oh yeah, you how many people did you pass? Oh no, I said
will you like the heart instructor and he goes. I passed three people or four people, three years past his bootcamp, everyone else failed and he said the guys that passed. He said I respect it off because you know he put them through hell, yeah. We we, we did Andy's, podcast and Andy, put me through jump training. Well, here is cozy and he was you know, and he knows excuse, the cali. You such a dick to all of us you're review in his like his circle, you know, but whose cause him up in Montana Great he's got going on. Use. Awesome is one of the best. Obviously one of the most talented jumpers
and one of the most talented, wise asses just so good, but you gotta, you gotta! Have him debrief you on his experience as a die? He was a freaking dive instructor, a second phase instructor for like a couple of years man, so he was telling me about how like he'd watched the kids hands and when their hands would go into this. Like involuntary claw like motion and he goes yeah, that's when I knew I'd had a good god. I cannot imagine him having more fun, torturing people, but he's doing it and then you are in suits, and then you get to third phase third phase and third third phase. I couldn't couldn't wait for, I think, like most most guys and yeah third phase is great the only problems I had their out on the island. We we made a really shitty hide site for our, like you know your your data. Yours posted, take hours to do it.
Was. It was so pathetic, jacko that when he instructors came out, I want to say his name, but how He lost his shit. He lost his shit so bad that I think if some type of brass was there, they might have thrown in jail he flipped out on us. He took one students like just through every, his direction. I think put his boot in the guy's chest and I kicked him a mile. It was one of those things we were scared to death and then we worked on at hide for another four hour shows job, because of that we are asleep on the beach was a camp stupid. I got to sleep camps stupid, which you really don't sleep, because I was getting astronomy People on the ice with us ice plants and ice plants had nothing but some kind of nasty bug. That was just brightness all night, so we didn't get any sleep, some kind of sand flees and it was bad. So, yes, that was my my third phase experience.
And well also the towers came within the towers came down so we're up it and we're training out east. You know in the desert and the structure comes out from the house there and says: hey: u, s is being attacked. The world trade center just got hit by by an airplane, and we all looked at each other like nan, these fucking guys just leave us alone like we're in the third phase, where this is a conversation, we're about to graduate and they're still messing with us like. Would we do wrong like we had a shitty second phase? I should I shouldn't talk about that and we had a really shitty second phase, but, farmers are conversion to swim. I actually did mean and I'm going to I'm going to name name of me and me and Jeff boss. So he he and I are are swim biting it to the bathroom, and we go running out and our car are proctor was a guy but an aim of vera money,
super laid back as tv guy. Like probably, Actually we are told the only instructor that you can piss off like it's impossible to piss em off we somehow figured out how to do that, because we were, running to the bathroom, we didn't see him and he called us evidently like three times and we didn't answer any fucking flipped his lid. Because of that, and because the cadre was like a he doesn't ever flipped out like we ve seen him for like fifteen years, they made us spin, the wheel of misfortune every day for ce. This is the first day of cyclists, knew they made it every day. Just you and your swim. Buddy know the whole class god, which is even better right, so we got really weird. Well. We made a lot of friends after that, so the really misfortune I've talked to classes like before and after us. Like always, we spun it like twice like twice a week or like none of the whole phase, I'm like
we spend it every single day we got back from our dives give act more dive did not want one o clock. Men didn't matter, put all your stuff away, get back in the grinder spend spend unwillingness fortune, two hundred counts go so we, We did that every day for second phase, which I was told like never happens, and it was just like a miserable second phase, because we had to do you know more pt for like an extra hour or whatever, so it sucked third phase we're still being harassed. We thought it was a joke. They marches in, we watch it on tv for thirty seconds, we march back out to the grinder, and we just didn't have any idea was about to happen. The cadre their demeanor was complete. Different. I'm gettin chosen talking about it, but you can tell like they knew. What was about to happen- and I remember them like having this like hatred and just you know I would
to go to war guys and we're just like now we're out here for marine birds on the beach were workin out and the eleanor from the class, which is all we want to do is get your buds. This sucks from their demeanor, which was like we are we're going to war like this, is what's happening and it was. It was totally different and from that day forward from the last last part Third phase like they were serious. It was a more of this, like joking crew of cadre, like they were like. This is real. This is not the shit. You know that there and in all honesty, some people signed up for it. Man there was right after that there was few guys from sq t and one in one in particular. I remember quit enescu tears. I didn't sign up to go to war. I know the college and whatever so I think some people this It's, I obviously a big reality check for us. We, I don't think we knew any different because we just trying to get through bites. So so,
amber this whole time. You're new husband is common home, freakin with the ship eat out of all men. Work and crazy hours, and all this like what you're, what your impression at this whole scenario before september, eleventh, I really jack. I thought we just have to get to the end. Buds I literally thought after the six months of training, things are going to out, I mean even minus nine eleven that you know nothing could have been further from the truth, but in my mind I was legally something that was an end goal, and so well of the late nights and ice baths, and I don't I I just need to stay on the couch all weekend like that to me it was going to come to an end. If it's gonna be normal again, is also some of the swedish time because he was so spent and I an back. Get photos of our one year old, climbing all over him and he's got both knees, enow wrapped with ice in
I am trying to be a died and in it we ve got pictures at the zoo, and I can see how beat down here. As being a bud student and trying to be a dad. He came home, nay honour anniversary, and it was like in a midnight, likud missy anniversary, and he had geraniums picked from our apartment. Complex is, It is thing like he was still trying so hard to be the sort of this dual role and after nine eleven lake cadre of in he completely changed. And what about? When? Did you realize what an impact September eleventh was gonna have from the perspective of when I was going in the seal teams in it was nineteen. Ninety ninety, ninety one, I thought I was gonna vietnam. I thought has gone if you have one, why god thought we hey they're seals just sneaking around the world, just killing people and that's what I was gonna be doing. So I just That's the way the seal teams was that's what you did.
And I got since your teams- that it wasn't like that monopolies. It was not like that at all. So did you have the impression that kay he's going to war, anyways or We like a once. This is one to get done with the seal training. We're gonna, be you know the just kind of live normal wives, but now this september. Eleventh happens. I didn't know what had happened. His. I went from being independent soft, more to a pregnant college student to a wife and a mom and now Eleven happens end. My birthday is on September twelve today, and I think I remember my mom had come to visit in two thousand and one set or yeah two, two thousand nine eleven. Oh my gosh, it's twenty one years: nine, oh okay, sorry zero one
yes, anyway, my mom had come to visit and I remember telling her like, I think, he's I think he's a or like I think, he's gone. He was on the island. I had no idea like these probably gonna leave like today and we also be just a crazy time. I had no idea how much it would be. Any normally enables them even I mean, from my perspective, I've been in Israel teams for like ten years at this point, and you know he fought like Everyone was bare, I was paranoid that you know I wasn't going to get any. I was going to miss it. There's going to be over, like everyone was feeling like that, and because it's like you were last ruling what six months, maybe maybe I went I was about to say maybe a year, but I don't think anyone thought oh, this is going to go on for a full year like we would do so. Rights. We would do some heads take out some targets and then that would be that I would
love to hear someone tell me that they knew it was gonna. Last twenty freak in years, I would, I would be very suspect now I did have some officer for senior officer friends me that said well, give me back routine. Please now they're, like havens, are going alone, awhile I'll, give him credit. First for thinking that infers tell me that, but almost everybody was like, oh, we need to get over now. If you don't get it now, it'll be another year, because the first gulf war of you, but you kind of base some stuff off the first gulf war, which was seventy two hours. It was seventy two hours russian ukraine right right away. Everyone said: oh, this is going to end. I was going to be a month yeah and now it's like wait, a minute. Yeah, oh, wait! A minute! It's it's! It's a lot different and yes, No. I think that everybody in the community no
no one that I talk to was like. Oh, this is gonna last two decades that wasn't even have fought to did you go to ask you t on the west coast? Yes yeah, because you used the guess, ask you too, I was like. I think I was a first, I think, as a second class, where they didn't do that. Teaching anymore? Everyone did ask you t you didn't get your rocks, you got your yet you're tried and when graduated as qt, oh so that was. That was your class. That was a class I think before us. I think it was like a it was a thirty five yeah goggins and brandt, sadly no hair. I and I remember too jogger thinking like I'm so happy that he's going to get to do something with all this training, because you know seals during times of peace, verses in oh nine, eleven on
sure it's a very different way of living in deploying in being- and I just thought, link and it has been a gene- has been peace. Times for awhile and good for him. I am glad that he gets to actually utilise this too. And- and I also remember thinking seals incredible did nothing they don't die. I hear you and eating unheard of those. My thinking, back then was so naive, but I never was afraid leg. He can't do this, more or I was actually very. I was a fool aid, but I wasn't thinking that I needed to intervene. I was very supportive of of him too plain. That's crazy presume young we're all I mean I think, of a thousand and eighty four thirteen years before I shot my weapon at the enemies of thirteen years that you're talking like this peace time, and I actually
also, like I had a great time like we worked hard, we train hard. We were hanging out with our friends you're trying to be ready for combat, which was the big thing that we didn't know. One didn't understands you can prepare for some that you don't really that you really don't understand, but I really love the job of being a seal, even if the job is just going out and going into the desert and do and as a wharf returning. I love that job is an awesome job, but I mean what you're talking about amber like the fact that you feel that, as like a mom and a wife, even you felt, like I'm glad he's going to get to do his job. Imagine what the dudes are like the dudes are like. Oh, I know it was if he was I mean we used to. I hate saying this, because it sounds so freaking horrible, but we used to like pray for war like just want to go to war, so bad. We just that's what we wanted to do and yet We got. We got. We asked for when we got we asked for. I was gonna, ask you, but
as q tee. So you go through. Ask you t yeah now, that must have been. Those deeds must have been like fully. Before long like we're going to war. You has all gone war yeah. Absolutely it was. It was rear two's like a transition, so their ringing guys in that had just got overseas and and done something like after actions and so like you, all of a sudden shift started changing from like h, cured stuff that actually, you know, fits you and works, and we also had, I think, a levin. Eleven guys inequity, I came back that had gone out, right after nine eleven licking again, so we had. All these guys were to arise before when on the private sector,
that I know, and I don't have it as your point amber like you met in euro dude you in the team for four years or six years you get out of the teams you're going out you're doing whatever we do in the outside the workers off you, like I'm grown beckett. Only everything I have away all built up whenever go back and cause that's. What do you want to do Did you get so you get your trident at the inequity and what would they do when you got? What team did you go to? I went to ten. They just commissioned tenant, seven, so half the class went to seven god or stv one, and then half of us went to ten. Did they do? Did they Did you? Did you keep your tried it when you got there cause? I know I heard some good stories, like some teams were taking your try to a painting. It blew she's, always inert two and four teach you and for area by you showed up I didn't have a d get ripped off. I ain't seen as you can,
across the quarter deck, and I know that I want to see somebody as tv was timely. They took the tried and some put him into a bird canada should they did on these coasts. They promote they put a member caging. You can look at it, you can't have it. You know, of course, that the ways of the guys who struggled they had a keep their trials and the bird cage. There are a lot more than skies ever that were squared away so, but we did you we did on pretty given beat into our chest from new structures, tat sketchy your while all the families renounced us allows obviously felt like with something herbert, maybe not so much compared to how it used to do it used to be very good, as is cool. You know I checked into the team and we went through something called seal, tackle training at the team and the board, with your did a board with like the senior people in each department, but man the tree
that the guys get now the training that you got dislike, centralized training with all the experience all consolidated. It's it's awesome like there's no route there. I think they're coming out of. I don't know if they might be coming out of bud now. I just asked you haven't budged, with like four weeks of cqc training There are it's you know compared to like you, wouldn't even see it until you're at a team. You know six months down the road that you went to shaw's for two years yeah and the the thing is like when you were talking about guys coming back from like combat deployments to getting in there, and that's all right. That's awesome, but imagine like it turned into hey these guys were in sustained combat operations. Forty years because I remember in the nineties, like a guy, did a mission like singular. Like one mission, it was like a heavy those guys Experience in that vein,
Had this thing that you didn't, you know like. I had a opportune commander, who is an awesome guy and he had been in grenada and was like you know he had. You'd slay, the dragon and we're all just looking at him. Like he's the coolest guy, ever we had first phase instructor was on the the the train up in bosnia. Oh no yeah, it was like there was a gunshot like like five miles away. A farmer was talking about. The animal contact left are getting debriefed on it. Not judging anyone knows there because yeah, no props passing you do you have some gouge you did you did what you were. What the country asked you to do, so you get into a you, get you show, but the team. Now you go right into a platoon that right yeah. What's your job, do you just get handed a sixty or what I guess don't think I'd be like the comms guy I get handed sixty just because I couldn't wait as a gimme to a place. I couldn't wait to be a sixty one. I actually did you get a mark, ford,
neither jugular sixty. I sixty three by the way, murkison never shown a weapon before before it's going to be right. Yeah I mean I was like I said. I grew up yeah. I grew up playing play ball? While the cool thing is no bad habits good hand eye coordination cause. You were an athlete like. That's all plants to you, pry been a pretty good shot everything I want it. I always better pistol shot. I picked that up quickly immediately. Rifle took me a while to get more efficient at it and even in order to adapt it in I I never. Struggled with it, but like the pistol I was, I was a really good pistol shot and quick and faster and everybody, but the rifle like I was like mineral the road I struggled with it actually early on our member. How did you as the were the guys out their ross he's coming over Saint hey, you know, just don't don't put your bag
on a car like just a bunch of things that, like he's like, I can work on. But soon as he worked like with me, you know went from being pretty not good to two to accede. But it took me awhile and I tell people I said no. I actually had to like really focus and practice and like stay late or you know what's the range in evening when guys we're like, hang it up, because I just through just something not write about not being produced imagine you're right like I want to actually be good. I don't want to just hang it up and and walk away. So I got I got decent at shooting a a you know what year was it when you checked into team ten, two thousand and like April, and Do you know where you goin on deployment? Nothing really know anything at their own work was still just K, yams chaos and new team. Like there gone through a growing pains. I thank in sweden or anything in my first point actually went over to germany and
god you you come on out. We had our yukon on yeah and I was that was Whatever is trained, more training, yeah and the frustration level, is everyone just going nuts like? Oh god is insane the people that were getting out like after you know, sooners the platoon when go to Iraq or afghanistan like gotta, get any sort out here, Gaza getting out immediately. Their jumping in a black water and all these other places? I saw a lot of guys to one one platoon, because they weren't you know because you'd here he's rangers and s ethnic. All these guys are going down range in new york when I'm fuckin gonna germany, too. What like just what the biased? ask t and it to your work up and what is this, for you tell me, I'm like good. You know maybe has garbage and sauce. You had the feeling that this all things we be over, like really quick in I buried.
I get it now from get out and go work for a contractor evaluations are honorable. Will how you? How are you liking the team life amber? You know what I didn't. I find it. I realize really early on that. There is a pretty clear distinction and the wives that you know is probably best to keep one foot in, but don't tredah in a jump in full throttle and don't stay completely away. I saw that there were women that were very angry in resentful towards their husbands and I, felt like there are women that really supportive and always wanted to be supportive, also felt like you know it. It was not something that I wanted to necessarily make my life about, but I wanted to support marcus that I knew what was going on
in the community, and so it was good and you know we had two kids at that point. Yeah. I got pregnant with our daughter when Marcus's and was december of two thousand and one right after nine eleven, so we had two kids when he checked into his first platoon and It was pretty much gone, all the tire so Bruno, no no we had no. I was at. I was at lead climber. When you were like I was overdue. You got home on my duty and I ended up in five days overdue, but yeah. He was at least climber and I like it, Can you tell them that you're having a baby in his eyes? No, no! I get she's a very ready to burst and I'm it's like it's just like such a you know the way it's the way. It's the way. I think it would be deployed. That's one thing, but you're in west virginia I'm in virginia he had no cell phone, so there was one cell phone, a payphone you walk to and he would call
like. Have you had the baby yet so he got home on my due date, but I ended up being a little overdue and he was just gone all the time is, it was really actually hard. I was an only child, there's party that really vinos raising only says period that did love that independence and and made him around, but it did get lonely, and I was now hullo kids away and I was meeting wives, but it was in others as exists. There is a lot of like I don't know what schools of europe as your husband What's your husband's ring, I don't ever I've never play that sort of like living thrill validity. Throw your husband, career markets was always like. You know. My reputation means a lot to me and so don't ever do anything that would embarrass me in the cap. Dont risk my reputation, I really respected that my wife was do with our first kid and my exit, whose apply prion the guy, who is an awesome guy, that's. Your team to
he's a winter baby deer. When I was like. Oh you know like september, or something and he's like. Oh, when are you supposed to go on the planet? in like august, something he's like he's like you're, not going. I was like yes or no I'm going to an appointment he's like yeah you're, not. I was like sir I'm definitely going on appointment. I'm not I'm. I'm definitely going. He said you are deaf. We now go ahead, so he literally said: hey you ve known appointed as soon as she has a baby, and I thought I did and I missed about a week and half an appointment. She had a baby and I left the next day, which was probably I mean at least I was there, but the attitude from me we're just like dots. First baby. Whatever like our gambling on appointment. That's just that's just it is a means for like for you to be like now. Do you know? I'm not don't mama, I'm at a school right now and I'm not coming That's the way it it's like. It's just the
the normal thing and then I remember, I told my wife caught bless her. She called me at work. And I don't arab- I forget what was going on, but she called me at work and won't. My chief was like hey Jocko, your wife's on the phone, and I remember I pick up the phone and I go. What. You could tell she was like so apologetic, because it's this, I put pride with the same freakin psycho pressure on my wife that that Marcus you have like don't it'll do for best director crash, don't embarrass yeah, and so was what and she's. I go you and I go okay and that was it like hung up,
why can total jerk, like I'm a total savage? Some sorry darling about that? What I'm saying is like that's just a normal thing like you, you just you're in the team, you all about the team, everything's, the teams and it sucks to be married to those dudes. I think in a lot of ways. It dies, but there is also the shared sort of leg aggression and if you were for lack of a better terms that I understood that he needs to be so focused and I was just pissed after the attacks. Of nine eleven and I just thought like ya, get over there like doing do you go? Do it cause? I want to know about it, but go do it like? I knew that the teams always came. First- and I accepted that because I knew that it was a short period of our lives and it needed to be done so your first deployment,
you go to go to germany, you are sitting over there. So why the hell are we doing this? You get back and enroll into another platoon. What are you going to be a sixty gunner again? What what's up absolutely it's for it, but I think at that time there were. I was carrying more karen forty eight gas mark. Forty eight cause respects to yeah sounds good. We did. I was my my task and it was was red wing. So you know we do we worked out together. We flipped a coin. You know grievous platoon,
basically got to go to afghanistan? First, we go to germany first, when we were ripping out like half way through to get guys more exposure to so literally over a coin toss and those guys went downrange and we went to you know we went to germany and then you know the rest is kind of history and once the hilo went down, we actually deployed a week later because they were a wreck, their iraq. Alpha two is gone and the other guys were not good how'd. You how'd, you guys get word. What are you guys doing? It was terrible how we got word and we actually got word from from them. So here we are were for deployed in germany actual unit and we had to find out from our spouses that there's guys in full military.
Dress, showing up at people's doors like that's how that's how we found out so it was. That was a rough couple of days. It would I now- and we know what the communication was an awful lot better back and virginia beach, because there are still searching for obviously trial knew that went on for like what almost a week in in a no one knew if their husband was on the helicopter, not in them that survived, worn allowed to call home and so is literally pins and needles, and they were
bring much more but then when the knox started coming and they were finding out yeah, I remember being on the phone you you're, like screaming crime, because, like somebody was like somebody showed up to the door like you were there, all the women were together and stuff sos. I was like a just a shitty just a shitty time, I think for everybody in the community. As you know, I didn't really didn't experience a loss like that, so it was really difficult how people are handling it and when those guys got back to germany, I think they flew in a psych to me with everybody for thirty minutes, the first guy went in there and didn't come out for almost three hours, so they were, they were trying they were going to they. They gave each guy thirty minutes to talk to cycle. The first guy went in to come out for three hours, so it was just one of those things. I don't think anybody even knew how to prepare what to do or- and so it was just a bit a bit rough for awhile. But again, once we got like over that week got our heads
back straight. We were like nah get us over there yesterday like. Why are we still sitting here, but we did we wind up within a week. We were in country and we're already we're doing our first mission, like within the first couple of days, What we do know is that your mission set our mission was going after different, like like different cells. Different tell themselves that were but, like larger, is almost like a little bit. Different wasn't like see tee missions, even though we did like a city are righto like initially the first thought was like. I know shit like as private course up ever. Like you know, blackhawks come in ropes go out in a fast robe
no charge on the gay like boom. Everybody you know like it was like a real op and then because that was done at night, it got shut down and the whole country then got shut down because you're not allowed to go after bad guys at night, because that's not nice. So that's what we're dealing with in in you know in afghanistan at the time. So then we started just you know, going out to in the daytime and chasing different and different groups like in valleys, and we working with the cats off. So the canadians who were like men compared to us there and it was like vikings, but they were way too much gear and we had to tell them to like dude you're going out in the mountain for three days and you get six nine mil mags on your body. You think you're new, six, nine mil max. I really hope you don't need my mailbag, so you know shit like that. But but so that's what
doing and what what's your job on the platoon and has a air ops, Lee breacher, and so I do in fire team leader and yeah got we had a good like. It was a good good deployment and it was. It was a really spicy deployment. I mean we had like multiple engagements. We had our chief got hey. We got lit up by a army apache, which was wild, because I like that was not super. Obviously was terrifying was a big deal because it was, it was daytime, stood on how they didn't reckon. As us. Full on engagement like full on gun, run not just like. Oh, there might be a position of more like we were. We were engaging a small group that was engaging
ass. We were. It was like five of us and maybe three of them, and we were started down forward like from cover to cover an You know I actually I was patrolling with a with a saw, so I was a little bit lighter and I just remember just like just fucking going off on that thing. It was awesome, and then I remember hearing this deep, like deep, deep sound of just like. Did you do to you The fact is, I am literally in the middle of this little valley in it. It was not wide. I turn around and this army this a patch. He is in a full on like front till gunnar on an I've literally thought a movie like you saw like the dirt and the If ever there was a twenty millimeter, maybe it was just which straight at me and I'm like.
You know all this happened so fast like or are you fucking kidding me like we're getting engaged by our own guys and so come it's terry ass, we all die out the way I member diving, behind, rocks and washing. My chief do a full on like dive. Interacts. I did not give a fuck and the thing comes tearing through. Can't see anything, has dust everywhere. He wanted getting hit the face while the way we're working gun runs and is at dash. One would come in and do twenty millimeter guns you know dashed use coming in with next. You write, you point five rockets, and so I just get this, rock, and I just huddled up in a like this is fucking it like I may live, but like I'm, gonna get fucked up. I'm gonna get frank here because, like we ve been calling, gun runs all day long into caves and like we get we'd get engaged? We pull back collins, some guns. Forward. That's a kind of mission was through the through. The mountains are
and so I was just waiting. I was like huddled up, I'm like oh this. Is it we're going to get I'm going to get sprayed? Hopefully not bad like I was trying to cover my face, I'm thinking ok, I just get wounded. You know to be ok, but just not my face from my head and the second is comes. Terry through and didn't fire anything, but I could see I could literally see them in there. You are so low, so somebody who, who didn't have their head up there? Ass, was able to move forward fires and call it off somebody clear them ha I still don't know to this day. We still talk about it because it was a fuck up. You know I fuck up or how bad was your shift wounded. He has her face is like I like you. Can it wasn't bad bad like, but it was like we took a picture. You almost unrecognizable because the I guess the fry going that fast was so fast. It just kind of blue his face up and he was like spitten blood a little bit, but he honestly was fine,
yeah totally totally like restlessly, really a hundred percent like you're, looking back you like, but Yet there was a big deal. I just remember, I think, when we got back and get I wasn t, but I think a five at the time may be six in us, I was I was tucked away, but I think the leadership got in the ass of of that unit. You know over it and over it sieges. Out of here. It's like what what and neither you know who caught first time who who cleared them hot. You know we were on the offensive. He was just that he was a total mess. Young radio man. I was standing out in the desert in fallon nevada, trying to call in for an extract from a helicopter helicopters, and I'm sitting there and I'm looking there there like. Maybe a couple hundred feet. Our attitude and ike understanding there making calls them like hey. You know we're ready for extract and they couldn't see me and I was like this is crazy. Esther, like wave my arms, they still can't see me and finally, you normally
I'm getting a bearing, and, unlike hey I'm right here, you southwest they did. You can't see me and finally like popper, whatever papa smokin, I'm argued and if I bubbled off, but it showed me, that when you're in the air, like things just look so totally different, and they can't see shit and they're moving freaking hundred fifty miles an hour and they get told like you cleared hot guess what they're gonna freakin shoot me. Cause a lot of times are saving your address even someone's ass to and you know, I mean you know all the blue and blue that was happening does everywhere and again. It's not. You know, of course, is not nefarious it just. It happens just like that. Do I, but we had, as I'm sure You know you didn't we weren't data in day panels and I popped out immediately and there, Are you fucking kidding me guys, like we can't see it via de panel? It's cut up out of your shoulder so that the the lesson learned that day forward was like. No, no, you gotta carry a full day panel and, like
it out because ass the only thing they said that the only thing we can see there's no way we can see them. Nothing on your shoulder. Incredible lessons learned and end so that that appointed wraps up but I mean you asked freakin, so many guys from your task. You had good guys a couple of bites mates and yeah. It was wild. I mean we matter of fact right before we deployed right after the hilo, not right after the hilo went down, but they flew marcus, flew back to germany and they're like hey you and so, and so get up to forgot was Ramstein. I'd go meet him like he's fucked right now, so we we we got a car went up. There met him, like
once he, I think they they've cleaned them up once he got out of. Like the you know, the the e r or whatever, but he was covered in, he was nasty like, and I even liked he looked like he, his the all the the wounds he had were just like. Just doing so like his face was covered in shit. All his arms and legs were like covered in like he looked horrible, but he was like super excited to see us because he was yeah. He does get his head cut off. I was I was the admiral's aide and I was just about done with that job. So come back from Iraq and I I became the animals aid, and so when that was happening I was true king what was happening, and I remember there like, like they're, telling the admiral hey it seems like there's a guy, that's alive.
And I was like a thousand radioman has brought there like they have as they have his radio like this is in my eyes. Is verbally, but I was thinking to myself. Man they have Is- radio and they ve turned his radio on return on the transponder. Whatever you know, how is a guy alive right now did make any sense. And then by the next day was, I know they have actually coms, and I remember thinking this is a frequent miracle, how the if this guy's alive for real hand, the weird thing as I I had met the the trail boys at a west coast reunion, many- and I just saw him, but I remember because there are big- giant monster guys and their twins right, which they just stand. Outworn fed sexier text- and I remember like
meet seeing them and being like damn, that's friggin legit you to get your twin brother you're, both in the deep like how cool is that and then sure enough? As I put the piece together like oh shit, that guy to one of those two guys in man, that was horrible horrible scenario- and I remember thinking at that time- a this is definitely going to be made into a film, because the story was just unbelievable and b. Oh shit, I think bad things can happen to team guys, like you know, you'd heard of like a death or two training accident, or you know someone died overseas, but until that helicopter went on I sort of thought team guys were invincible and for the first. I am, I remember, thinking like our shut. This might not end well, and you see someone you, your girlfriend's suddenly become widows and got real
look like so would you do and you got home from that deployment, lady, each party forty invited everybody, including the ceo and I think, to this day, was to talk about that amber bought me a calculator, I just kind of celebrating us coming back and you know a few people were not happy at that. Because of that you know What's the healer coming down in guys didn't come home and those are all are like brothers and friends and and sisters and and we you know, amber's thought was. I just want to celebrate like that. Guys came back, you know, and so we threw a party and she bought me, the greater I think from costco, and that was really cool, because I had just all of a sudden again like one hundred friends overnight, like guys, would just stop by and be like. Hey, I'm just grabbing a beer, your kegerator, but I think that
amber had the ceos, stop, don't even dance now, it's great she had this. He had she had the ceo's wife and a kegerator by hetero like legs up in the she got thrown into that and in her defense was great, but still good story. I think it was e file that she's great and he's great and they're great they're amazing. What about career? Would you would you do now? What's your next move from their yeah? So come back to my second employment, I'd already screened for after after my first and they just said hey, I do not think anybody after one platoon so good. You know, you're good, go, go, do when deployment and come back and you'll be in that next week. Sazen cossacks in n. You ruin that selection. How was that it was good again just for focus. I go to my surprise
the guys didn't practice but, like I just wanted to be there like, I wanted to be just and when I found out about that place, I was like yeah, that's exactly what I want to do so trained and worked hard and and yeah. I just had a good cqc block and, like I was saying like like was when I was a top like pistol. Tudor and with the rifle, whereas like struggle with the rifle I went from like they post your scores every day, you time, there's no hiding ike like when you shoe, you show up like oh marcus, fifty seven at sixty five wet and it was like all look at ship bag like if you don't move up you're out of here right- and so I wasn't gonna pistol pistols at the top, but there for the initial week. I was really close to the bottom, and, unlike do this is not like. I can't that's all You were. It was weird and then be good at pistol. Good at ravens. Just weird is we was there's something I didn't click in your head and then some somethin finally made a click jack. I'm still trying to figure out what
Secondly, my fault- I dont know I manner I wish I could take it so, but I'm adage to crawl. My way back in the top ten, just by like sheer you know, have to as nude respect that, like I just threw I had, I had to get ahead to get good, I got I got a lot better so but no I I did really well and at finish that and kind of finished green team, and and you know they kind of do a ranking, and I you know you're not supposed to know, but I just I guess I was chosen first and I went over to squadron, hung out with our
it worked for our bro and I talked about earlier. I dunno, if you care, if we say his name on here or what, but I said, don't say his name: okay, but yeah. It was everything everything that I thought, probably actually more and and a lot of stuff that I didn't expect for sure and probably amber tell you like. It just got weird or after that. So now you start knocking out deployments and what what's a cycle that every year, so we were deploying every year, sometimes twice now, but at it at the time it was six on and then three six on it was three Three million form a guy success society up three gallery three training very honest and by the three gone through training and then on standby in a fly ways, and it was. Again, but hours away way more than even in an even at the time.
Where europe deployments to pass odd ballroom, so both Iraq, Afghanistan, both o f, a laugh and you're bound. In back and what what's your? What's? Your job has also breached there and yeah. That's that's exactly that's all I did and I loved it and as I did a lot of combatants so that split at the time, whereas, like sport, fighters in combat, as in combative, guys, hate, sport fighters and sport fighters. Think about the guys are gay and you know it was like that thing going on. You know, and I thought it was funny, but I do tell this story because I was I trained. Every morning I went in, we had you know, coochie had his guys every day and so I'd go for two hours and train I never trained at at a at a gym just because we after work, I went home.
But I d train every day and it was one day I was. I had a guy in a full mountain. Now, trying to figure out a way to to put a like a like a color like some kind of choke with you know what I was trying to grab his collar and it like stopped, and I looked at them, I'm like what the fuck are we doing. Why am I China choke. You aren't like one like hitting you, but my near her chest. I get up and go to my side, armor plot, something and sticky with it are just like pushing get away and from there you know I'm not doing any more sport fighting. I just like. I just want to know how to like, just like power pound powdered god your eye out or just like. Stick you in the gut with a knife and just get the fuck out of here and and then likes. I started more moving into the camp of like the combative saw, the house and, of course she had people saying say: no, if you're better sport fired at a transition is like the skydive originally. The skydive slick forever. Now I could see any those gasket strap on a heavy rock and in a solution is anyway, is back and forth, and
I'm aware I digress: where are we going to now and I loved all that, however, that it was? You know I am but so came up. You asked me what I say: as a preacher, and I didn't vieira de la commands stuff. That's why I climbed in an amber. What's so what's lifelike for you now now he's gonna even more. I was way settled so, that's actually when I met around, let him is where I met Sarah wilkinson and our life very centred around the command and other command members command families we all sort of in a worked out together hung out together weekends, together with the kids sports and pull parties birthdays and in o was. It was very tight net. And one of the one of the things that I remember so much about one Sarah was talking through. You know her
sperience were Chad was like, left such an impression on me she's just talking about like this personality change. That she saw from him over time and you know it, Do you seeing that kind of thing for markets at this point, were you seen? Was he been withdrawn? Was he? U notes work fused was he it's? You know it sounded like what what Chad was doing was more like the withdrawn thing, and you know she was like look. He wasn't like the most talkative guy in the world, but all the sudden, like she noticed that he was different, yet an amber. Even though I can, and so I worked with tadeusz. What am I recognise and I never I he was smiling happy choking and again. This is right when he He showed up. There learnt we address the two thousand, so you still like just back from being out.
In the private sector for a number of years, and so like used. I feel, like you stole my giddy and just a life. His life is chill it's good. It's you know nothing, taken me down, but if that's how I remember if enough- back to the examples that I already gave of markets with ours. I'm crawling all over em and showing up with depict geraniums like you still vary much into being a husband and a and even in his first and second pillar tunes Enola maggie's birth, he was their work came first, but he was. There what we trenches transition into was living completely separate lives, and so he would come how many would say things like hey: where are your cups in o in his own home that he was paying for and we would get everything looking perfect because you would be home for five days which, in those pretty typical between trips. Anything
then that was a pretty long time, but he had we had become distant and I become waymore rooted in my friends and my life, and my kids in it was ok that we live separate lives, because the ladys that I was around and and their children were living that same life, and so there was the shared respect and sacrifice that no, else understood by the people in your inner circle, each new without having even talk about, and so as who is becoming more and more distant? I guess you just sort of chalk it up to that's how things are now and, Did you actually notice it, or is it like the proverbial like boiling of a frog where it's just like a dead, the frog?
I know that the water's getting hot until it's all of a sudden, it's deadly too, it's too slow. Is it like that kind of thing where you're just going through and it's like? Oh yeah he's going on another trip and another trip and he's back, but he's you know going to sleep or I don't want to bother him that type of thing over time, yeah we could play nice for those five day spans where the house looked perfect in and the kids behaved perfect and he was as present as he could be boat. It became a lot more comfortable to live separately. And and you know it was all in the name of the united states of america, it was all for the greater good and it it felt like when he would come home. He would certainly be more checked out like he couldn't wait to leave again like I could sense that and family time felt like forced time, especially at the command. So it is really hardy is getting the certainly point
more drinking, more evolving, a stranger how much you drink and at this point normal mounts team standing by by our standards by the bros standards and yeah. I think we just and we just we just went around a rabbit hole. I mean we. I think I was just drinking a lot of bourbon. Often the enact ever really knew that because it was with him that might give alone. I came home like yours. I didn't know like what his drinking habits were, because we were really never together in the last couple years that you are deploying he was gone from us three hundred days,
You're, like you know depressing, is pretty toxic and then we were all everyone's doing the same thing or when trinket hard, everyone's think going through the same things. Some are affected, probably more than others, and I didn't say anything wrong. You did if anything else at what point did you at what point? Did you start to see something wrong? Two thousand and eight two thousand and eight josh yeah Josh, one of my close best friends from from buds and then through the teams passed on a on a on and off, and I was just unexpected and that was like a river and stream crossings yeah and it was just it was tough because I was I was supposed to do that revenue stream crossing and we do when when he got swept down the river. We think we looked for him for almost like ten to twelve hours and and then he he washed up.
Fifty clicks down a corner just like a class four rapids who's, who's nasty, as normally I suggest you know, seen him kind of get get pulled out of the waters like really it's not not good, not good, and myself and another individual. I took his body back to his his family north carolina and we stayed there a week and then we were theirs when jason dusty got killed. Like couple of days later, I put up a terrific fire, both of them got shot and, of course we are supposed to be on that up and it was just
I was just you know you went through at jacko and it was just one of those times that was it was you know. I tried to look at it as like, though this is what it's supposed to be like. This is just the way it happens and I became numb after awhile and even when extortion went down. I remember talking to Scott more ammo more about ems like abraham fucking numb to this like it doesn't affect me anymore, like I just don't get it like. Why is this still happening, and it was just. We is just a conversation we're having. I think, through these years, we're just getting just odd, and I think I remember seeing this site for the first time and in a way at the command just like asking to like. What's what's going on, can you you know, helped me out a little bit or whatever, and I
It's like the first time I ever actually went and spoke to somebody, but we didn't talk about it like nobody talked about it maybe, but he also has when we have his medical record, and I was just looking through it and it says, like I decided not to talk to the command psych for fear of not being able to deploy, which is the the easier I don't even remember one hundred. I remember that yeah, so I was certainly noticing that he and you just seemed like he was just like a renegade to me. He did not care, he did not care and those deployments were sown saying it like someone was dying every deployment, and so it felt like russian roulette and, I just between Josh and two thousand and eight, and then there were other deaths that were so close to us and then Adam brown dying in two thousand and ten, who are very, very close with Adam and his family and our kids best friends at the time I was just like this is nuts you can't do the same
yeah, and so it got got to a point where I just felt like I had to do something different. I wasn't like fully fully checked in and again talking to the admiral he's like you should go to cs cause. I used to be an officer. I'm like I just I need a right now bad is acknowledged. Go to sea ass. You can be a good officer, and so I want us yes for, like two days you didn't have to pull up a package area of technology, Would you came in past up being promoted, If so, someone else could have it because he thought it is going to I didn't want to join in. I went in and talked to the yeah. The cmc at the time said, don't make me chief said make so and so achieve, because I'm you know I'm going to go to cs like. Why would you make me chief and I'm like you're, going to take it away from somebody, so it didn't They made him chief and- and I want to see us so you knew a you didn't do with this.
No. Obviously I do cause. No, I didn't I didn't like I didn't. I was not present and clearly we need us this when you went and talk to the psychologists What do you say? What did they say they they have like a you know they have their standard list of like s o p. You know like what what's how's your home life? you know? How was your family, like all my my wife, is great. My cats are crazy. Fine, like what are you drinking yeah, a little bit, but you know normally what now, what the guys are doing? Nothing. You know it's! It's very vanilla. Ryan's very template. It and I think you're. Obviously you are talk, but the route that I went eventually when when I separated, but I think that's the problem is like you go to school and they try to solve a problem in this box that they're taught but everybody's different, like you're different than me, and I'm different.
Her like they can't use a standardized template too. I think it also like a jack in the box link into its actually called the thirty minute check up from mecca Oh, is it oh wait? Is this like a t like they say: hey, did you get ordered to go? Do this? This is. I started part of the standard operating procedure. Okay, you're back from three deployments. You've got to go check in is at what do you give the answers? You know that you think will probably get them off your back yeah. Let me let me figure out what I have to say: yeah, so they're, not wife is fine. Kids are great. I'm ready to deploy and so is that what you didn't I go there? Could you said you were a little you're starting to feel it a little bit. Did you suppose that at all, when you talk to this, this doctor or narrowing, think so, don't you remember, not sure I just remember here irish, remember telling me marcus, you guys, aren't crazy he's. I put your wives he's like
african split is crazy. Stay very tight, like I literally have all the conversations. That's what I remember he's like marcus. I don't think you guys are crazy, he's like, but I do think you're wiser, crazy and like it's ok, whatever, whatever you say, I'm on board. So that's kind of crazy that you went in there you're feeling like something's, not right, but you still get like an object to go to see us by the way that it was the these and I went to lcs is because, because I believed in any am I believe and my skipper vessels I didn't want to let him down and size all five So far, these all fired up he's like hell, yes, always find it yeah for sure he tells you know you. Can we get off suggested josie s new, like we're out on like roger that it made sense on paper for sure, but we're out of your main. She will not spend who s got a member toma. Close friends like I know, Very close friends was like I like, I can't at the airport. I can't do this right now, like I can't I'm not good he's like nah bro,
Gotta go like you're gonna regret this, I'm like! No, you don't I got. I can't I can't not it is a market. You gotta go, do you mean by not good like I was just now. I was not into it anymore, like I was not mentally like focused or determined or like dr in poor, like any of it, I just didn't. I didn't be there. Will you see in this chamber? I was, but I was also in a complete tailspin because we just needed to. We need a change of scenery, engineered a letter to a common. The storm to to reassess. Do you can like survive? Is illegal fernando example, is much easier to survive that it is to like survey the damage. I was incomplete survival mode, and so it seemed like ok well. This is something that could get me to the other side to survey the damage it's a good metaphor, sir you're, like in the storm shelter you there's. This mayhem got your ok in the shelter, but you know at some point you gotta get out of this thing. You've got to get somewhere safe, yeah,
yeah and then once the storm is over link in anything I like any natural disaster. He lived in on the east coast, hurricanes like preparing and surviving the hurricane. Isn't the hard part. The hard part is cleaning up all the mess on the other side, and so I knew he needed to get to a place where he could start cleaning up the mess. But you just are: such survival mother, you don't even know what that looks like in. So for me, oh she s, sort of like checked out box is a different change of scenery and in my mouth and mark is always needed. A gull. His goal was to get a scholarship to become sealed to get to the command. This was just the natural next skull. I didn't then he was so depleted mentally that he didn't have the willpower to care about the goal. And it was the first time that I had ever seen him not care about a goal. That's what I was going to ask
because you're describing a mess right, but at the same time you're both all also kind of like you know the kids are doing good you're. Well, you know what we're doing everything I was there on like under the recent asking you these. This question of his line of questioning is because, if someone is a wife and they're looking at their husband. What are you looking for and how do they go? Oh you know what I see. I know what this is. I understand. What's happening, there's a loss of motivation. Did you see behaviors? Was there anything that you said this is not market not in a good spot right now, yeah yeah, ever sir. I just values reckless I felt like he was a complete renegade. He just didn't care and so for me, oh. She was away to dial it back in give him some direction and focus because, like I mean he cut his hair for nine months, he too is
it's drinking and then like the aura. So the next day, like drinking till four, am then the aura, so it eight like it to me. It was just sort of like very but will for him maybe not necessarily of the teams, but he was so laser focused than the sudden. Sort of renegade attitude- was definitely alarming. At the same time, I never saw him so is probably ten times worse than I do Oh, yes, to see ever hear all about. Lucy has this because I went to see us and I can't imagine he come back. Apparently literally a week or two prior are fucking. I showed up and well yeah for the marines and yelling and shit, and you have like iraq like this and they're like fuck. Is this guy, and I understand I may have half I remember sitting. First off, I was getting migraines, they gave me they got me. I
for six hours after I was fucking hurting and then armor sit on or my back was killing me. I had all types of like shit going all my maya, my my l, foreign l, five and I'm like trying to read the was levin general there's a century like trying to I'm trying to you know try to memorize, and I remember taking the book and throwing it across the room and I'm like hey who's in charge, you're like a very nice way of sense, as I can I speak to him. Please yeah sure I was like hey, sir you're here's the deal I was like. I just got back from my six combat deployment. I was like I got back a week and a half ago I'm like and I'm in curse, has a wire. If I have to go, does yes like? Why are you guys sending me with people who like never been here before, like I don't want to be around any of these people? Like honestly, I was like I just want to go back to my unit
it's like. We usually keep guys here for twelve weeks. He's like you can go tomorrow. I'm like thank you and I did this dude, that's it it was. I was like what am I doing. I'm like I'm learning how to fold. My underwear again, are you kidding me, and I remember, going back and and telling admirals like hey how's it give you good people like stan. You guys got to figure out this. Oh yes, thing after geyser going over the seized a wharf, ten or fifteen years like one like this, just you're going to you're going to get more people like me that are like fuck, this whore they hear about what lcs is and instead of going through the Well the process of sending their pack it in they're, just gonna hear about it and go there's no chance, because that's what I've told I I talked to a bunch of people wanting it back. They're like oh yeah, you didn't know that like that's why I didn't go. I was like: how can you go deal with that for another twelve weeks? After all, the other shit they're like side they go, but there's this work around and if you, if you become a
If you go on reserve, you go to like a fork and knife school for like four weeks you get pinned, and then you go back. When active duty, they they decided to tell me that's like the now yeah for years- and he honestly he knew and intuitively. Do you share of ours? No chance he called from the airport. He called me and he called his best friend, and I think I said, like you, ve gotta, listen to your guy at an end it just ended up pushing through and getting on the plane and going, but some day I showed up I'm like what am I I'm not doing here, that's dead, is lacking. The last place I wanna being camp. Welcome like so was yeah. It was good, so they sent you right back to the command yeah and they usually keep it out process. They they keep people in holding cell like twelve, twelve or thirteen weeks at lcs and yeah. They let me go like the next day and what did what did like the commissioners are like the detail or say there just like what you know. What he's that's bizarre?
would make a good ability it's hard to get a bill bill to seattle. I did have to apologize. The admiral he's like hey, I'm like I know I was like. I know I do he was. I also think he was on the way, the committee that that selective yoga, yeah, I'm sure he has a lot of poll whatever his business. You want yeah for sure, but it's like who ever thought that that was a good idea anyway, but yeah. So I went back and they were like hey. What do you need to do? I said I just know: there's someone out there right now go see. Oh CS is so hard to quit. I quit and yeah. So
Just told him I said hey, I need. I just need a break cause where, wherever that is, I said I was thinking, maybe maybe go out to the west coast and just forget about stuff like yeah. That's fine go, do it since we did, I went, went out to yeah, went to the center and wanted to teach tactics and they threw me in the first phase, which is like the worst place. They could have put me and it was not good It was and, as you know, all the geyser are awesome. Like good dudes often been overseas hard, hard, nosed dudes like great workers, I didn't wanna be around anybody. I was like I don't wanna make friends with anybody. They probably thought I was like stand offish because, like I didn't want to hang out with anybody, and it was just who is not a good time. I I, I body, slammed a student in front of the flagpole and like one of the one of the instructor staff grabbed me, and he was like hey man.
If you're going to get a lotta trouble, if you don't fucking like tone it down, like I dunno what's going on, and so there was just a lot of little things like that. That were starting to happen, and I just didn't care. I was like fuck everybody. You know at the time one of my guys, J, p d. Now who's been on this park asked a few times and he was he was in my task unit. It wasn't her body. Came back, went to another platoon and then got from shoulder. Surgery got pulled out and they sent him to buds and it was like one month deep. They called well retreat that accommodate you boy he get. It was the same thing here is just not a good head space to be put in students through. You know four first phase, because you just was the right spot. You know like how to get him out of there and gives them for you he was a loose cannon. The arm
You, you workin, for how long you first phase for first face for a year and then, finally, they kick me. I would ask you to now now you're sitting here saying like I didn't want to be around anybody. I didn't want to make friends with anybody. What do you see an amber? What does this look like to you talk at home with him, and we had been apart for the the bare part of every year leading into this, and so it was very, very, very difficult. I know I was trying to be optimistic. We're super settled in virginia beach, and so I'm like. Oh a new beginning cruisers for everyone. I thought we would come out to california and suddenly be this happy family and when we got here, everything just completely hit the fan, because I didn't when community anywhere we started every single morning, acerra wilkinson, Jim crossman odyssey at the time its core group of girls and dumb my kids. Had their friends, we had an amazing neighbourhood, a great house and suddenly were in council,
we don't know anyone and now Marcus's home and the kids. You know like ours. One in particular had this sort of, The us who marcus was in his mind is a sort of like this myth of a dad, and you know how he really didn't know him, and I think that whenever we, what the dad than he got delivered back was nothing like the dad that he had created in his mind at the time, and so he started acting out like everything was going. Bad ends, I don't know I just let's it's hard for me to a picture that are now cause. You seem like a superficial dude like almost mellow and like others would like? What is this look like? He had now a monster of universal values, completely disconnected to us. It felt like he didn't want to be anyway
really I mean it didn't I didn't feel like he wanted to be anyplace else. I felt like he wanted to be. Nowhere like he didn't, have a purpose or belonging of a. He didn't give a damn about anything and he was it's definitely drinking a lot a lot more than I had realized, or he started drinking more than I was comfortable with and- and there were certainly times that I was I I just thought, is no good way out of this. Leaving him is knocking the necessarily solve anything sang with him. I don't know how much worse this can get your jib or just to go back. Like I was still light, are still functioning. I got so you know
engaging with the guys I had had bros and stuff, but but but I was I didn't want to it. Wasn't it wasn't fun for me anymore, I didn't want to be one of the guys and I was just not just wasn't the same or just it was just different. You know and thank god I got kicked over to SU ti, so I ran cqc for about a year and a half and a great staff. I mean those guys I joke, because we had a we had a great selv. I feel, like those guys did. Everything like I was like. I didn't even need to be there like in literally the lpl from I mean they just they ran the show, and so thank goodness I was just kind of in the background. Just I think I started school online. U s D did a graduate program there. So we would, you know, work the students in sq t and then at night, we'd put them to bed
and then I would step in you know, do work and stuff, and so you know it wasn't like I, it wasn't like a complete mess it. You know, I think everyone was like. I was functioning, I wasn't you know, I don't want to sit here and say, like you know, he was like stuck in the corner of his house, sucking on storm every day now still functioning, still going to word wet like you just in carrying out its checks, started out, as I do well without a goal and something to work towards, and so it and most of us going back to get his masters degree It is a rescue. Tea was definitely like a jack in the box, and then I think at some point. Oh well, then, the been lawn rain happened which commerce will not allow one, our not being there you like for me and from he encountered. There is like this big sort of like
the resurgence of let's get back to virginia beach, and if I did, I call it the cmc I was like heck. I want to come back cause, I done come back and I then I just faded quickly. No, I was replaced mean that was our plan was to go back and then extortion happened in so many more Our friends died and then it was like what are we gonna go back to to that same game of russian roulette in we just know each other anymore. And it was very uncomfortable to be in the house, he was learning how to be around the kids. The kids were very uncomfortable, like how does dad fit back into this dynamic, and so we thought link at the time we know dysfunction. We know too women's. We know not being together. We don't know how to be a normal family. I d, no. I families during the weekend, I dont know how families on the friday night, but I know how to be a single mom
so rushing back into that dysfunction was the safest thing at the time which was replaced by big that reality. Slap of o is extortion. Just happened. We're gonna go back to the russian roulette. Do we really want to do that and so that at that point he decided, let me just get out of the military altogether, nor you, MR whole bunch o my turn. You mustn't
something what I that's when I went to speak to. Oh, I see from sq t and I was like hey I'm like I'm not, you know something not right like I'm not doing well he's like. Why don't you go speak to the the west coast, dive, medical officer or whatever they call sign over there and who was the psych and just start telling them about? What's going on, he said Marcus is the first of you're, not you're. Definitely not the only one. That's come in here he's like matter of fact he was. I can't even count the number of guys that have come in here now over the last couple of months. Have literally given me the same exact story, and it goes, I dont know what it is, but he's a you guys are all experiencing the same exact thing he said. So what I want to do and I think he's briefing I got- prescribe dead and assess our eye or as an hour I first time
And I guess I was supposed to stabilize mood and then I got sent an ico and I came back with like four more medications from an iko iko clinic mountain, which I thought was actually a pretty good place, but they do a lotta. They do a lot of checking and giving you drugs and they don't do a whole lot. In my opinion, healing when you go, and you tell this doctor something's, not right body describe something's, not right like what does that sound like again, I'm looking at this from a perspective of yeah? How can we help a first responder or a firefighter or a police officer or somebody in the military? That's what did it? you track and that they should be paying attention to. I think that one of the biggest lack of motivation or like lack a purpose you feel like
Nothing matters anymore at all, like what am I doing this for, like I don't even care and you're like well, would you care about while I used to like to surf or workout, I could give a shit about surfing or working out or I used to like to go. You know, do x, Y and z, I don't even here will give you two weeks to do that now, how about I just sit, sit in my house and watch tv and drink bourbon, because I don't have to think about anything and I can know myself, and so I would say to the people out there listening it. You're gonna start to see that you're becoming less motivated to do things of things that you really enjoyed in the past and that's, I think, one of the biggest signs that thou right there's a telltale sign stuff you really enjoy doing when it comes to like a screeching halt like go talk to somebody for sure you know, and I don't know if that's now- depression kicking in or
now. If you want to call it like ptsd or anxiety, or you know now, I get into this I know that I don't know also. I guess this is a chemical thing, because right now that that study- they just came out said that's not, is not the chemical thing right? So now it's like okay! Well, what's what's going on your life that you can't get out of bed in the morning like you don't want to go to work, you don't want to answer your text messages. So it's really just like a lack of just like alright? If you just like slumped your shoulders down and just like not gave a fuck anymore, that's that's really! The there was also a lot of anger, irritability and I think those are all things that that are part of it. So, like you, you become this person that doesn't want to do anything, and then you do snap or you throw mugs through the window or you choke out the bartender the country club, you know and stupid shit that all these things have happened by the way that you prefer
we should be doing is like a weird, that's baronne word, but when year, oh when you're living your life and everything's white, like you're saying you got goes, you got things that you want to do and you got a long term vision- and you got kids and when people die that you know better your friends and then there's this like there's there's this thing of like well they're gone and the world is still go, and what is or what is any of this ship mean of o, My friends is awesome. Guy and now he's dead and war.
Where I'm still go into venal morning muster What are we doing here? that sort of thing you, ok, are getting like an existential thought of this life is the most important thing. But now, oh you you, you lost a bunch of friends and poor still here and we're going on, but we're gonna end up where they are, and this is the way things are going. It's like seems like that could lead to. While muzzled watch tv, I might want to sit here and drink bourbon. Might as well. Just do nothing because This is where we're heading swore we're all heading I don't know again. This is just like I'm thinking out loud, as I'm hearing you describe you know where your head space was. Especially when you're sort of get detail,
Can you get put do different environment? We don't have the same friends and you don't have the same, like crew of families at your weapon The one thing I can say about losing guys in combat was I you guys in combat in your with all your friends and then you're gonna go do more stuff in combat and you dont really there feeling of what are we doing here? Actually the opposite happens. You now know why you're here like we're, going to go and we're going to make things happen where to go. Do our best we're going to stand tall like you're going to do all those things, so it's sort of the opposite. You get. You know you get, You start yeah! No, I think you get fired up. You wanna go! Do that a hundred percent and then in the environment, talk not about without doubt, and then I can, after that, you went down like I couldn't we can even we were screaming. Why are we still sitting here like wise and why the helicopter land right next to us, put us on and send us over there too, to go to go, get redemption right and then, when you don't have that outlet anymore,
you're looking around in your saying, like wolves or why where you going to get out of bed this morning, I think You know what you're describing you know. Someone told me once and I kind of laugh at it, but it makes sense he's like marcus. I'm not sure he's like he's like definitely definitely dudes have this ptsd, but he's like. I think they have what they call lsd lack of well, let's hear a lack of stress disorder he's like I feel like we have to be in chaos and once that chaos stops is when our shit like unravels- and I said you know I was like I get that, and I said I feel that they're definitely that's part of it. But there's gotta be part of something else. Why is everyone and not everyone, but why are there so many,
experiencing the same exact thing you know I'll, never tell you that I and I'll still to this day, sometimes fight it that you know like you, I loved going overseas, I loved going to war. I think that stuff is great, I think it it it. It makes you grow like it makes. You makes you better, and you know maybe with some stuff that happened younger, then maybe some wartime stuff. Then maybe some transition stuff, like you said like where I wasn't around some people and then maybe some of the family stuff that wasn't working and then maybe a concoction of all these fucking medications that they put me on said you're going to get better. If you take this and I'm going to believe you because you're a doctor you're telling me This can be good, you know, then you get out and then you're in the private sector in europe have any of that at all. So maybe just all together is a recipe for it's. A perfect, storm. We found ourselves right in the middle of a perfect storm,
I've, never taken any arm like drugs or anything. Like so so, even when I hear that and I but I've I've off her, there's been a bunch of dad in from about them what their like and what they do. And you know people you get on all these. What are they called psychosomatic drugs that what they are there there there's a few there's a bunch of them. Some are supposed to like help. You release some serotonin, so you're like happier and others are supposed to like stabilize your mood. You know, but then promise once you start taking those. I don't know over son, you feel a little tired. You can't focus, and now they have you provisional new, so you can focus, but now those medicines are causing migraines eddic any an unlikely. I can't sleep now so like. Oh here you ve heard of ambient mike was on him for six years. Walls deploying
but now you need this or maybe we'll give you am. I will give you the other one. That's not as like. His sister is a constant cycle. He did. He was unknown. Prescriptions until the year, but he is getting out of the navy and like between that time, and we know a couple years after he had ten prescriptions he's on zero. Today. I remember I got saw my first miko I know that from the from the psych and then from neko, they prescribed me for medications cause. I was just looking at my medical records, crazy and then once we went into all this, I think it was on seven and we get an average. You know what we're doing on the nonprofit. The average is. Seventy eight medications at one time we have people coming us, this team, guys over twenty medications at thereon, not that they're, like hey, I wanna beyond this, that they're being prescribed, say here, you're fucked up,
why you should take these like who prescribed somebody over twenty medications. That's like he seems insane to me to say any. No, no look. I I have friends that are psychologists and they've explained to me that there's, like certain things like there's certain times, certain people need certain things and like it really helps them. But damn like seven prescriptions for suv, some stuff that makes you stay awake and focused and then give you something else. It's gonna make you sleep I'm not a rocket scientist order, psychologists, my damn self, but that doesn't seem like a great thing: yeah, probably Oh two: it's the number one tool in the toolbox, at least if you are being treated by military mundus, enter the viewer. If you can't write a book, urgent for it or talk to the therapist about it. They got nothing for it, but I think the best research that came out recently is that they said if you get your heart rate up, go for a run. Go on the mat.
The actual research showing that that's better than this, these antidepressants that they ve been giving us for thirty five years and I I think now, these anti or that there's a lot of bad she's coming out about em like there's no like, repress you read about analysis is not good. I think they're slowly going away. Well, I Never stopped working out a never stop turning judges to wake. Maybe that's, maybe that's it. Do not always addressing at least where I understand you can do, but I still think not for everybody right, so I still think there are certain individuals that probably need something. But now when they just came out and said hey going for iran, Your heart rate up is better than these like we should we should take. We should take that on board because, like most of america's sent from the computer for twelve hours a day, they're wondering why you they're, angry or they're depressed, you know just a little bit of you know heart raining hard.
Increased activity. You helped. I n you throw booze into the mix right cause like how good is that, for you got seven meds, nine meds, twelve meds and you're drinking like and not working out of my so you you decide that you're gonna get out and how many years you have this point. Twelve twelve and you I said. Alright, I'm going to go, do something else. I'm like I just want to run away. At that point, I literally just wanted to run now. And what do you think an amber while learned from us? Yes, that big atta changes are probably not the best buy it at the time. I thought I dont want. Back to the russian roulette, and I know marcus The goal- and I e probably feels like leaving the command and becoming an instructor, is going
not necessarily going in a gull or the direction and so maybe having a career is the next best all, he just graduated. He had got a masters degree, and am I what The only freaking team guy can be gone like on all these drugs and drink and still get their master's degree and retiree. It's like that's so ridiculous. I thought I was the best when I wasn't thinking like. If I could just go, if you could just wind me up and go I'm fine as soon as I stopped for half a second when chicken stumbling, Now, let's see so little did I know that I was actually like stepping into like the you know: the perfect, perfect storm we are living in a pretty bad one by the perfect storm was childhood trauma. War trauma, head trauma, transition, trauma, family trauma, loss of purpose, loss of paycheck, loss of community loss of
identity and he wanted to get so far away from the military and the teams that human and banking. What was what was pushing you away from the freakin teams, have no idea. Therefore, if I hired out his anger like anger, it and probably wasn't the team. It was just anger of like everything, because you know what it's like when you like see one of your team guy friends that you haven't seen in awhile you're, just super stoked. Like I remember, I got back from LAS Buenas we're going to trade up dude. I want to trade out. You know, since different team guys go every day was like a reunion every day like just like. Oh a real raw. What you're like every day, was like that I dunno I mean my freaking, kids, will say to me my old, his daughter right now associated me like. Why? Don't you just go back it, I'm always like a well. I can't really go back in a four year old guy. Then why don't you just go back it. So what was that?
not there anymore. Were you feeling, like you know, you see your friends and you're like I don't know, I don't care, I don't care, there was just you know. Jack was just like a now. I don't I dunno how to describe. It is completely numb inside he feels like that now something I was of time when time. When the view I went down, hubs we're conversation with the admiral's dislike amnon. This does not even affecting anymore. I don't get it he's. I gather this hurt, so my yet hurts, but I just don't It's not even register it's just so this is this is when we see like there's some that to me now, like okay, there's something there's something wrong or something going on in here like free for a team guide to not like kind of stoke to see their friends. I just remember my whole life. I would go to work and just be stoked like there's, never a day where, as a guy, I'm bummed out to go to work every day was just awesome and fun
and gonna see my friends. Inward hang out or in his shooting shit and like thank god. I always had that feeling. You know I always had that feeling. So this is what tells me like would again going back to chad and hearing Sarah describe this change in his personality. You know, and that's where I the only thing that I can imagine that could cause like like it has to be something else, that's causing you to get in this mode of others, freaking four guys that I haven't seen in five years, and I went to buds with her morales at a platoon with him or whatever I think you have it had been like. Though you ever our seas. One run high to remember that, like I never want to go back to virginia b. Oh, I don't want to see anybody and I had also leg. You know he sort of heart is at this pinnacle of what he wanted for his career.
In the teams and so to leave that go to a new place, was hard. Anna would be like transferring coast for anybody, whether you're, making all new friends are being out here. Or the vibe. I mean. Obviously we love it here we're here now, but the vibe here versus the east coast is very different and that people are a lot more spread out here, so we were by ourselves in the neighborhood, far away from other military families and am witnessing like people really got it, and so I think that he got this place of being so now, I'm not really carrying after the transition, but it was there pretty hard to go back to virginia. But I hear you now because, like we live in coronado- and I love it because I get to see like my bros like guys that are contractors, they come in my hey, what's going on, you know, so it's good. Now it's pronounced different, I'm in a different place, I guess the thing that I'm trying to say is like you can
like the freakin check engine, might in a car like to me, that's a czech engine light in the car of like just about Every team guy. You know like when they see other team dreamer their stoked marijuana. My nobody's was stationed up in up in germany. North germany, with the cops farmers kills. He is up there. He was up there for three years. And I went up to see him one time when I was in germany and like he was cause. He didn't it's not a b. These were around kick ass, bad ass, comps from er guys, which is awesome and they're great they're studs. And but maybe he's already was like he was. He couldn't stop smiling a brow with his eyes bro, you're, so happy. He goes pro, it's so good. He goes. It's so good to see you and it's so good to speak english, german extra. So for me to like sit here and think about that, I'm thinking there to be like some there.
Something wrong with the engine. Like there's a shit. That's a czech engine lightner the real check engine light is common. On and on Then you tell me all these other things like that'll list you just rattled off of all these things that are going on amber you're, like a loss of this. Was that change this change of this. You know you can't outrun it whenever you're processed out in your civilian, it all comes crashing down for so many, and we were one of what one of those cases where we could not run it anymore, and I mean if you're good, you're good, and so you know you think if you get out and everything is tracking and there's no check engine light and you maybe go through some transition whatever, but you're fine, but if you're not, you know, I liked that. I liked that analogy.
I may use that then must steal that from you or you can do yeah. Of course you cannot. Sarah describes chatter a light going out, and I certainly would have described mark is the same like the light in him completely went out and but over time you just start to sort of like justified rationalize it in your head? Lay ploughing community. Guess that's how things are now in their kind of all like that and in a just you just rationalize and you try to handle it, but like the level of suffering that you guys can endure. Is so great? It's
terrifying. Well, this is how you get a dude. That's like going through all this and getting his masters degree like that's such a good example of I'll just suck it up I'll, just suck it up, and just do this stupid assignment. You know: you're a grown ass man you're, getting told by someone who write a paper you're like cool, give me the freaking computer, let's Rock'N'Roll yeah yeah, so Three decide decided, gonna get get out and what kind of plan d you have like? We can get money from. Did you are to get a job that you get a job now I got I mean I was yes, yes, I was lucky enough. I had had a mentor and if you know and mentor connected to some folks and so I did like new york city tour met a lot of different people that have met a lot of people in banking and some other stuff and then got introduced to a lot of west coast folks and just kind of went out there and figured out. What's next so I know I consider myself lucky there and that I got to. I got to meet a lot of people and kind of figure out what I wanted to do so I had to.
I had a choice, and so you got you actually got a job lined up before you got out there, which is freaking me because sometimes guy don't realize that they get a paycheck every two weeks and that when you get out that paycheck stops here and you know what I did it's a rough transition for a lot to do to us to be very rough, and so I was here lucky now regard looking for something else. The dune I wasn't thinking any other way again like the way I'm thinking is I'm getting out to go. Do something to vegas figure. It out so this was the first gig you're a banker. What was it a private banker and which is really like a fancy way of saying financial advisor? and I had some people tell me: don't don't do it unless you have a lot of rich friends, literally I get told by several people really are how this works.
But now I got I got lucky. I worked for a really good team up and allay, and did that like a year If you guys moved to l a yeah, it was terrible. That's why we moved to texas site within a year after moving there, you still working at the bank. When you move to tat, I know, I got hired somewhere else again through through my mentor and doing the same kind of thing now doing different stuff, like operations now, just like more like leadership operations, business development and how's your headspace. At this point I mean I feel like it it didn't really? I was like really excited to get out and do something different, but I'm not sure he was in a holding pattern at that time like it like, there was cited, you had enough tasks to get on and another was also had something that, like I was there was like excitement. Yeah yeah and I didn't mind, l a but I certainly
vienna. We were so disconnected and it was. It was a challenge. Our relationship with a challenge, his relationship with the kids as a challenge. He would drinking was still an issue that I was strong and I'm still on the meds. Obviously so I was on meds for seven years straight and verify you're you're incorrect. Got proscribed stolen, active duty, so from active duty to two thousand seventeen november eleventh is when I yet now. I just meant that link right before you got out of the military. Is you ain't your whole career, not on mad think, even when he would get dirty. I'm not undertaken that and then in a finally relented and like his last year of service and then from that point forward he was prescribed more and more and more by
Things were really still deteriorating at home and I remember thinking I can't be stuck in california, like as a single mom and my dad had just taken a a job at the university of taxes is often a coordinator there and Marcus's working north carolina commuting in some at one point in home moment. He is likewise Why being california taxes and work in the state, and we decided to move the text and I just thought this is going to be a great place for me to raise the kids and I just feel better about the kids being raised in a place like texas and I can probably afford it more than california cause. I thought we were done. I didn't want to be done, but I just thought this is there's an hour? So from your perspective, as you say, and raise the kids, you think you can be re alone, because that bad well. It was just. In my dreams of my my feeling of support for his job.
In the early days, sort of turned to lake indifference and feeling like resentment, that the teams always came first I never gave him an ultimatum or anything like that. But it was the sort of lake pride was replaced with pain and from there. I just I kept thinking. Well, maybe if we tried this I'll get the feeling back, maybe if we tried that it'll get the feeling back, maybe moving will help my family, maybe getting out will help my family and nothing was helping. Is actually just deteriorating and size basically losing hope that out ever get the feeling back of like carrying. I did care, but I just near that this isn't dwell on it. This isn't marriage I went out, and so it fell inevitable. I thought that point we were just divorce. I wasn't afraid, like anything, that would happen him. I just felt like this is workable and what are you fewer marcus?
at this point. Your move you move to texas yeah. Is this: where you're choking out the country club people with texas, it just got worse from there jack up. I get nothing, nothing definitely got better. It got worse and I hated I hated it there. I needed the water, I needed the mountains, it was it was hot. I didn't like the people town, we lived and you know some. I I got along with a few people, but again, like nobody got it. I felt like it was in that space of nobody gets me you know and in a war and like a can get. I can't have a real conversation with anybody, because only the only thing they care about is like money and- and he was just- I was just going do all that and then again it wasn't like we were struggling in terms of like financially or any. Like. I'm sorry honestly,
I can admit it could emit a million dollars a year. Nothing would have changed. It was. I just was just a which is bad like it was just was not I dunno again, I think I had less friends when we moved to texas, then I read joke about it, but you know I don't wanna be too too angry here. Radio. If is definitely a challenging time, and that's when the will wheels really came on for us. I think that part of what has hundred marcus has been his ability to get the water and travel so now in the navy airway station near water ends in the team you're doing a lot of travelling, and so when we are in texas, he was basically stuck at home and it was Britain, ten degrees outside with no water, and he tried to take a bath
if he's gotta have in other outlet and in taking up off he starting out who crew the country club that were very, very, very heavy drinkers and he started to drink. Your kind of tobacco I think I was drinking hard anyway, that I don't think you were, but it certainly escalated to a point that I basically had to like sit. Down at one point in billig, listen, don't call my husband anymore, because this is becoming a problem in damn it to suite our son at that point was when he started spiraling a little bit. I think just because of what was going on at the house, and so then you we're dealing with him not being a you know, just like your typical kid that can go to school and get good grades and come home
I mean he's, not doing that he's not doing that. You know and so a mix of a little bit of everything, and I think I as it was at that time, when you know Amber again started just like seeing more changes and so She started getting manta brain clinics yeah, it was hardly two thousand. Then there is a forward. He made of markets is who took his life as well like one of the first seal suicides and his wife actually did a two part series and the virginian pilot over memorial day and that that was in two thousand and sixteen. I believe- and I read this article about him and she described him as the light going out and she described all the struggles that he was having and I was like hold on this is we're going through. No one's talking about this, though- and it was the first time that someone had like- had the courage to say that there are struggling and had so much worse,
extra. That knows also scared, shitless and so what the article basically ended by saying was that there is a pattern of scarring found in his brain, linked to blast exposure and there is some mention of see tee, and I started is searching this and suddenly I was like I remember, going to the garage and calling my best friend and I was like, I feel like I've. Just read about a terminal diagnosis like this shit is scary. I started really digging into the effects of blasts in repeated. Had trauma and link is fifteen years playing football in thirteen years is a breach are I was like I don't know. This is purely psychological. I dont know that medication is going to help this. I know talk. Therapy is not helping it and, if anything, I It could get worse over time and time is of the essence so that's when I really did this heart pivot and I saw
the new eyes- and I was suddenly overcome with compassion for him, because even though he had become a monster I remembered I chose you remember who I met and who he was before this deterioration and so I held onto the hope that I could get that person back, but I knew that it was going to be really really really tough and it might not happen. I started like I was most come to well with western medicine, and even though he was being a really good soldier and like doing taken all the medication that he was prescribed. I was like show that medication is what's in a fix here. It is only diagnosis, really was he had his tb. I documented all throughout his medical record, but it was primarily like ptsd ptsd and in my mind, I'm like gosh. I don't know about that because he loved to play and he would probably still be deploying if
in a shit, didn't gus us so far, so I dont think that this is wrapped up in anything he did overseas. What did me more sense. As the tv I peace, and so I started getting into bring clinics and environmentally five total and he was willing, but you know, weeks away from home. It was a lot of diagnostics there really wasn't a lot of hope or oh up on the other side, and he was becoming more and more and more angry and frustrated and em. There's really hopeful that I get help and my hope was diminishing month after month of more failed things. What do you do at a brain clinic across their old I'm in their old differently to take you to return?
What batteries? You do a lot of cognitive testing. You know the pitching machines they spin, you upside down, like they do a bunch of stuff that are really, in my opinion, for people who could barely walk and talk in or have autism and all these other things, and so for me. I was there just. I felt like passing time on like this. None of this none of stuff helps like what am I. What am I doing here in we owe you do like. I got. A lot of balancing image is for people again, and this is my opinion, but for people that I consider really fucked up by that are not like could barely talk to you at this point I think you're fucked up, I was looking for answers. I was like just
is this. Somebody tell me like something: okay, so you think he there's questions of what the hell is wrong with one hundred per cent yeah. I left ico with you know with you know some. You know the fmr eyes showing like. Oh you have these didn't deaden parts of your brain that you know aren't working but and those are just tbs. Those are like tv eyes, mild tb, I smiled tbs, he looked at me one time, chaka like he was trying to get out the door and he used to be so like regiment, ed and, like everything, had a place and everything was organized and he was just kind of like this disorganized functioning by chaotic.
Guy now and so he's trying to get out the door for a flight, and he was profusely sweating and his eyes were gigantic and he looked at me and he was just like sheer terror like to something is wrong with my brain. I dunno what's wrong with me. If something is not right with my brain and so all throughout his medical record, it's like cognition, whose memory issues balance issues and I'm thinking he's a most capable human. I know there's something with out of his control and I dont, like doctors are helping do when you, when eight, when they look at these tb eyes these black areas in your brain. What do we do about it? Do they do anything in this letter? What's the now, because I think it again, I think, is personalized because I know some individuals that had no scarring
there were struggling bad and then I know individuals that had a lot of scoring and they were fine, mohammed They weren't finer, maybe they're, saying they were finally are doing well, but you know my my my The collection and conversations have people's people are all over the map. So individuals with no, Scarring to forty five lesions on their brain are acting different men and it didn't mean that unwanted higher scarring reacting worse than the ones that were you know, maybe had none. So I I'm, not I'm, not a neuroscience nurse it tastes like- I can't tell you why, but I think, like everything else is just personalized, so there's no protocol well for, like oh memory, loss, here's what you need to do or yes, no there. There absolutely is! There's there's like exercises and yes yeah there. There's
as you can do. There are supplements you can take in on and I do all of it like. I take every supplement that I can find that says this reduces inflammation, or this helps you. You know I think clearly or whatever it is a new tropic, sick, I'll, try anything now that says: hey it's gonna make your brain younger as can make you you know, think more clearly and yeah I mean I think I think, there's still a lot of research around there about what we can take. But again I go back to diving exercise for all matters. We need new, get our action on matters yet europe by iran is not one thing in How many of these brain clinic things? Did you go through? How did you five and you know, and honestly I went to some really good ones from like like world renown, and I thought did you really good stuff, but a lot of these places?
cause you leave like it's kind of like they forget, you know, so they collect your money, which are some of these are astronomical. For you know. Fifteen k thirty k two weeks month, whatever it is and and then you leave and they forget about you and that's. That was a part that I you know I struggle with. Is that if individuals want to get better or these places want to get people better than they need to, there needs to be some type of continuum of care like they just need to check in on an individual thirty days, ninety days or whatever it is You will get probably many more into it than what we're doing now, but my camera saying I was getting frustrated because I'd maybe get a diagnosis, but not a not a like here's, exactly what you do. Here's a protocol go home and do this every day it was just there they're all very similar rate for diagnostics, great for diagnostics. But what do you do with those diagnostics? Well, they don't make any money either by doing anything else than you showing up paying your bill and
and telling you to come back, say campaign can pay bill. So what was when was, and where was rock bottom in what did he look? Like amber what. What is that? What was it like for you, where you are just ads and can't get any worse than this right now, and do you mind if I there's three stories that come to mind and I don't think I've shared them publicly and the first one was our son called me and said: are you home and I said no, why he goes. I need to borrow shirt from dad, but when I went to your room, your bedroom doors closed your bathroom doors, close him standing at your closet, but the closet doors closed and I'm afraid. If I open it, I'm going to find out hanging and
It is like a dramatic conversation, but it was also the normal in our house, and I just you know that was the first real. Like oh shit normal. How old your son at this point fifteen and then what is it he's? Picking up on? It just felt palpable that dad didn't have a purpose anymore and catastrophes
well imminent and I didn't know what that looked like. I didn't know if that meant drinking and driving and robbing his truck or on a pole I didn't know if that meant taking his life, I dunno it just felt like it's coming and then one night he came home and I it you know. Eleven o'clock he's not home twelve he's not home one two, and I heard him come home and I was just I was like. I need to put the dresser in front of the door and I had an. I ran up the back door and I thought this is not normal. This is He never he's never ever ever been physically aggressive with me not once, but it was too ding in the direction that I didn't feel safe because I knew you'd been drinking and
particular night, neither one of our kids or home. They are both having sleep overs and I just got unnerved, and maybe overreact dead by you in yours In a parking lot, two a m just like this can't this is this is not sustainable. And the third thing that happened, which was that the true rock bottom, the combination of my son, feeling these things me feeling these things was when our door he was riding with marcus and he had gotten into some like road construction and sort of like got lost you're got off track and they were coming to pick me up from an event that with my friends, at home. They got to me you so frustrated and of course they did. Had he been drinking. I didn't. I just see me
her coming down the street and outcomes our daughter and she comes like spilling towards me and she and he tears off down the street and she said: he's he's crazy mom. We can't get in the car with him. He'll kill us and she looked at me and she said how much longer do we have to do this and I said not one more day and the next I got on the phone with his best friend who died Josh with his family, who had a foundation, and I said we we need help, I think, he goes to california and he does this sort of like trifecta brain treatment debt. I can at least have like a minute to figure out next steps. I it was my last hope
And so they arranged for the funding I arranged for him to leave what was supposed to be six weeks turned into like three months and during that three months I came to visit him twice in the first I came to visit things were pretty good for a weaker I would like, on the last day of the trip everything fell apart, and so I went home really defeated and frustrated and in my mind, I was like. I don't think I can do the same work and we got him out of the house and there has been so much peace in my house since he's been away. Our sooner I went on due to mass turnscrew romagna there. There is it not to knock that, because that incredibly beneficial, but was it what we needed at the time? It wasn't enough what I sign up to do it again like for an,
stretch bonus to where he's out now like totally, but it was really needed at the time. So I came home thinking. Okay, this is it. I gotta start making plans and I did I started making plans, but I wasn't link totally ready to pull the trigger because I just I never want to leave him. I buy. I definitely valley. I was in a position to choose him or our kids, and so he exists. It is saying, are more time and then that the centres and I've thought of as one more time so around this. I am for my birthday. I came out to visit him and weariness.
Truck, and I said something so benign and he started just like tearing down the five and I thought if I survive this truck ride, I'm done and didn't even tell him that I was leaving the next day. I got up and packed my bag and I left for the airport and I came home and I my mom was there with the kids and I called my dad, and I basically told my parents that I'm quitting it was the first time that I really quit anything and my dad was like you know. This is not a disappointment to me. You are the your. You are the most important thing right now and you feel that this is the right thing to do than dyson you and whenever we need- and I said I think Can it be dead in two to five years and I hate that. But
to try to start forgiving myself now, because I feel like the inevitable, is going to happen and we are the only stabilizing force that he has. It is life or not gone arena. Then so is really working on for giving myself and also like during the day the year so leading into where we were. At that point, I had been on my own really in depth journey of lake healing in getting back into my faith than like tapping into a higher power to help sustained me, and so there was this massive storm all around me, but I become the eye of the storm, and so things have never been so out of control, but I had never been so in control and so is thinking. Clearly I was making like really strategic decisions
but at the same time, those listening listening to my intuition, which was like you, need to know that you ve tried everything, because one this is gonna stay with your kids. And you know it, the worst does happen. They're gonna beat they're gonna have to do it for the rest of their lives and to end my going. Be able to know and say that I've tried everything so use running on a funding in october, and at that point our finances had become a mass and he called home and said I'm running out of funding. Like can I come home and I basically said you can come home by the way as soon as you get here I want to. I want to talk, and so he came home and I sat him down and I basically took a completely different approach because up until that point I mean I definitely developed compassion for him.
And I had tried really hard for in others like eighteen months that he was going to these bring clinics. But before that it was like guilt. Shame condemnation in all of the things that I This feeling I was basically projecting under him and I was creating what I was trying to avoid. So the more I would guess him and shame him. The more bad behavior would come from it. So the more guilt and shame I would throw on it was just this toxic cycle. So like this, the sort of time where I was reconnecting with just a greater is dumb of how to handle the situation. I was overcome with compassion for him and like seeing him for his struggles. Four of them seeming to be out of his control, where, before I always thought like you're in a you figure it out, and so I just approach I'm in a completely new way- and I said if you fight with me- I
fight for you every day of the rest of your life, but you have to fight with me. I love view. I will never leave your side with it. We ve got to do this together and he totally it is totally softened him and he was like what do you want to do and I said: there's one treatment that you haven't tried. One of our. Dear entrusted friends, a couple had had gone down this path, so, like one other team guy that we had known at the time who done this in his situation was like in a more of a crisis situation where ours was like very deliver. And we had been we'd known about it and talked about it on and off for a year, but it seemed raise the us
We approached him about it and I said you know to go to mexico and try this and he was like. I mean I'll. Try it like. Don't get your hopes up. I remember saying that there's no chance that something is going to work, but we've tried all the stuff that we're supposed to guys that know. Other team guys have gone to have gotten better or not gotten better, but something that I thought was crazy and I read about seemed like there was crazy. I didn't think that trying something new was going to even slowly or slightly help, but I you know I committed just because, like I sometimes maybe like you, I feel like a
a guinea pig I'll, try anything you'd be telling me like it works, or it makes me you know bigger, faster, stronger, smarter. So I you know- and I did some research and it started to make sense that you know initially when we're talking about psychedelic medicines. You know they they were intended and are intended for medical use, not for recreational parties. You know anything can be abused for recreational parties and so the more I read the more research I read as it does kind of make sense I'll. You know I'll, give it a go when on what was rock bottom for you like wind. When amber's going through all this light from the outside
What can you just a little seeming like there's? Just no hope what was rock bottom, for you know, hope, like no hope, no passion, no drive anger, frustration, sadness, depression, all of it like I just was like again going back to what we talked about earlier. Didn't want to do things. You are doing, didn't want to hang out with anybody. Didn't wanna. Have a conversation didn't want to do small talk and just do all the above, just done yeah just done and in bike everything else I've had I have days of like. I don't wanna call it joy, but just you know up by some uplifting days, but the majority days were down, and you know clearing weeks on end some days. I didn't want to get out of bed like I said I just shut my phone off where now you know we joke about it as long as you're trending upwards you're going to have like you said, like you know,
but but you're different, you're you're you're get upset over a situation. You know that's completely normal I'll still have some down days, but the only last like an hour or before they would last for literally days, and you know I think that just takes time over what we've been working on over the last couple of years but yeah I was just. I was just checked out of everything medically mentally physically emotionally, and there was no. There was nothing in sight. It was just like flat, clear, not clear, but flatten The really nothing look forward to just real quick. How the hell were you guys paying for like everything like this life, but you weren't working for months on end how well it was a struggle. It was a real struggle, We max of credit markets has it he is he's medically retired
It is okay, yeah, so I'm out, but I was like got it, which was not yeah, it's not that mean, but at least it's like groceries right, I mean, as it was and we had known. We had. You know: we'd save money just for audit. You know from the teams and stuff over the years, and I'm trying to think of you working at the time are now located and had also gotten an extended was with some chronic health issues, and so I was actually way from from, but we weren't paying out of pocket for a lot of medical expenses because most of the stuff, a lot of stuff wasn't covered your insurance and you're, probably dealing with it with some of the stuff you're doing but yeah you know. Luckily, we had a lot of these foundations. Are, you know, are there for like these reasons? all right, so we get the deal were alike. Will this is our last shot last shot at the one treatment that you haven't tried yet, which is psychedelic, but as a drugs psychedelic play,
sorting call it my way. I will call it. Psychedelic assisted therapy, psychedelic assisted there, so you so the drugs recycled, Alex, incite, psycho, Derek mine, manifesting psychedelic, that's the mean of it psychedelic drugs or the you class, though the way this is going this medical route. They they're, including therapy in it, because what they're, showing with the research is that if they they take the drug and then they bring in the therapy with it, the results are like through the roof, because the the psychedelic really opened your mind up for change basically gives you new, like you've. Think of it as if it's snowing and you have like fresh powder and tracks haven't been on the on the powder. Yet that's what psychedelics do that basically gives you like this new blanket of snow, to build your own new tracks? And you can you can still build those bad, so you could still build in bad habits, but the ideas, if you have that coach or that therapist
or that support you can build new tracks like good tracks, good habits and that's that's the idea of of psychedelic assisted therapy at the time we had no idea signing up, for. I didn't even know we're talking about right now and when, when I heard about but there's a team guy who his wife was I to hey, you need to do this. Yeah yeah and I'm not is the essence of our community is I'll, take care of one another, and so they ve been there for us, passed and we knew about their struggles. They knew about our struggles, but in a thankfully, she felt impelled to reach out to me, and then I talked to him and then he talked to mark S and because we trusted and risk acted them so much. I felt comfortable, I didn't do. An ounce of reason I did nothing. I just convince him to go trusted them got him on the plane and I literally looked at the steering wheel in my car like this. I did the research and I said it from what from a new
play what I thought was in out to all use the term crazy to it started. It makes sense that again, these are intended for medical use. And you know it was stigmatize because we all know it is just crazy, crazy drugs that people around the sixties and seventies. You know, ran around concerts, doing losing their minds, but they are intended for for for mental health and behavioral health use and now substance. Abuse them. You know a host of other things, so so the more I read the more it made sense and I figured okay. I'm gonna give this a shot so you get on a plane. You just said you would drop them off at the airport yeah and I'm like this is it. This is like putting everything on the table and if it doesn't work, I'm gonna have to come back to the drawing board. If it does work,
best. I can hope for is that it buys me some time to find something. That's a little bit more comfortable. I didn't think it was like a magic bullet, but I definitely thought that if anything it'll just buy me some time and and then I went to see him the next day, oh. I ain't talking about that whenever, but boy yeah, let's get so you get on a plane where and where do you fly to marcus coming to san diego and then sweet? Yes, I bet and then caravan down to a clinic in mexico been operating for a long time. The good reputation will keep those separated for now, because one just kind of you know security reasons guys going down. We like to try to keep the two. Separated rewarder. We keeping separate, adjust the us what we're doing with the non profit and then the retreats that a lot of people are going to for these to do these medicines so drama that we still need to connect the two
I dont understand S. Ok, let's go we're just look. Let's talk about it as we hear so when So keep these things separated you mean like different clinics or something disclosing little retreat. Lugosi. Ok, you know for sure. No problem combat, ok, look checking roger disarmament. Might my communication skills were terrible than we had polish? I know it's all good, so you go to this clinic yeah go this split, the other team guy. Oh you with another team, is the one who is now the one you just ask order you he's yesterday. I rode out his drawing out, make sure I'm good know what to expect and what is a place like this like now, awesome isn't my whole life beautiful home, overlooking the water everything perfect food, so You seem like a hospital or does it. My girl does not seem
as does not seem like one hundred, it is set up with hospital equipment yeah and it's set up with, like full medical. You know you're on eat, your e kg or a heart rate, monitor you're, doing your analysis to make sure there's nothing in your system, you're doing bloodwork to make sure you're not lying and there's like there's a whole protocol and the more stringent you are on the screening, the better. The outcome, individuals that have trouble with psychedelic medicine again is the screening. So if the screen is not done correctly, there can be issues. The screen properly is almost little to no issues, and so the more that this whole industry moves forward. It's just gotta be done correctly, and so this place again has been running for a long time had been doing it. The right
not an underground sherman that is getting drug. Some god knows where saying here do this is good for drugs from fred in it is making his bath exactly? Who was a chemist high school how long? You, therefore, like ok,
so you show up yeah it's it's a it's a three to five day event summer. Some are shorter, some are longer, and you do this. You know you do a full like I was saying for intake a full medical screening. You talk to a psychedelic coach who's, a therapist first, like a psychologist or like a licensed therapist who's trained in psychedelic medicine. They prepare you for the experience and again, the better outcomes are the ones who prepare the most. So if you can, what what that individual does at licensed professional is going to talk to you about what your experience may be like or what you're going through and what you may experience and the idea is to prepare your they call it set and setting your mindset get your mindset in the right place,
I went to these treatments, and so sometimes you hear about these bad trips. Sometimes bad trips are just that. An individual's mindset was not in a good place. They were at a slayer concert, a concert or yes for sure, or they watched like a nasty movie that they started thinking about during their experience that just turned it sideways, but here's the other thing about bad experiences. What we're learning some of those bad experiences actually many or most of them, especially with team, guys and and other veterans, their their good experiences, those bad experiences they have to go through to get out the other side. So the bad experiences are some of the shit that they may experience as a kid. Maybe some sexual assaults that went on as a child- maybe you know maybe
I watched a friend get popped in the head and die right in front of them and they experienced that on their. You know on their journey and so all all types of that, so those are bad trips, but those bad trips are actually shouting showing them where users not guided in a people may take years doing it through cortical talk therapy or psychotherapy. You can do that in a few days done properly again, not at a slayer concert. Little show the shaman
so what's the sea script sees free screen, you use screen, you do you. Do some integration? Ask me some preparation again. This is from therapists coach. Once that's done, you're you're, given the medicine and just like you would take, I be proven or tylenol or accept, Dron or probably a few others that I don't know for headache. Psychedelic drugs are the same way as others. I began and there's still asylum and there's him dna and theirs. But am I missing I was scared to hearing about, and so there's all these psychedelic drugs that slightly do that they're similar, but they do something slightly different, but they're all relatively trying to solve the same problem and so do the
the drug that I experience was called, I began and again to me, you can tell me I was eating fruit loops I'd. My ok privilege tat I had, Why does it appeal? It's a yeah, it's bill. It's just like powdered pill, it's in it's in pill form or you take it all dependent upon your body weight and it, but again, its personalize, so I metabolize shit faster than you might so what works for me? If I take a nano and making this number eight hundred milligrams, you may need in a one point you gramps, and just because I maybe metabolize it faster. So it's it's science, but there's also a little bit of subjectivity to the amount that individuals me I'm having fun. Back of when you were talking about when you were drinking for the first time? You're, like I don't understand how is gonna make me like think any different. This is exactly that is probably even worse, because I mean we're talking about a we're talking about,
on a journey here and was most powerful and m search rose. Getting at is that I begin is considered one of the world's most powerful psychedelic us what we call the nuclear option. Not everybody needs to do this, no no way near or not even close to. Everybody needs to do this, but what we are seeing is some of the stuff that I was experiencing, you know, as I was transitioning out of the teams and like the years of like you know, would you if you want to call comorbidity of other things? Like always a little depressed, and maybe he's got some tb eyes and maybe going on going through some shit we're transition, and you know I begins. Get her for an individual that maybe just going through a little bit of depression. If you can't get himself out of you know, out of a whole, maybe I began is not the right thing for it, because it is. It is a really rough Journey- and I'm sure, like you said you ve got to some friends- is not fun like it's, not it's not joy at all and anybody takes out for recreational use by I wanna talk
and actually rainy d go talk to a site because there's something definitely wrong with that. Individual, sir I take yeah you take so you take this medicine. I'm gonna call them medicine, even though I don't think technically, we can call it yet, but we're calling it medicines because they are medicines, and then you have you lie down the bed you put like norris cancelling headphones on. You put, I shades on and in a within an hour, you start qana going into this experience and for but it's different bites. You basically go honor me no six to eight to twelve or even longer our job and for everybody else again, because it's your mind or my mind and our minds are different. When I mean experiences can be different from what you experience or for my inner you experience
and its working on a few different thing. So one is the story, and that's like this psychological he's the trauma, peace where, if there are real things that really fuck you up in the past? Whatever it is, so a lot of addiction right is coming finding out from things that happened in individuals lies not just because they like to drink or they like to do heroin or whatever it doing it, because something fuck them up so bad. That they turned it whatever. It is again, I'm we don't need to discuss what whatever that is the cycle it is a really good job and in they say it's a joke stir to because it will show you that and it'll fuck with you too, but the thing is what you just said: sometimes the only way
the only way the only way to heal is through and the only way to conquer something is through, like you have to face it. We know that can't you can't bury stuff or if you have an issue with a with a team guy that you work with. If you just keep burying or put stuff on it's often the site, it's going to blow up one day but if you can take that person say hey, let's but settled, differences what's going on here. If you don't like me, I don't like you why we have to work together. If we Have a conversation, it's gonna be messed up forever, so that that's what the cycle like does to the mind it shows you the problem that you're dealing with a new face. It
in this twelve hour journey and it could sock and for me it it was really tough. I mean it was. It was twelve hours of like gore and blood and just crap, but when I was done it literally felt like I just took a thousand pounds out of a backpack. It was just like you just like this relief that I never had before in all this like pent up first, china amber's talking about that just like went away and for everybody else, it's different, and so what talk therapy or psychotherapy can t, five or ten or fifteen years, my stuff friends, up in a later still seeing a psychologist for twenty years. I might do. I can help you. Probably in a week like you been in this person. It's obviously not helping. You know it. Can it can do that in a much faster?
timeframe and like amber said, is not a panacea. It's not a magic bullet. Sometimes you need to go down twice, sometimes media. To do three. Maybe need to do at once a year everybody's different, but again I don't want people who are listening to get the wrong idea that that This is a one and done or like a magic pill, because you know everybody would be rushing to do it and think like again in all my answer You know be solving this this in this bottle right here it takes a lot of work. The experience itself is gonna. Sock it's going to be miserable you're, going to cry you're going to throw up or you're going to like nobody wants to. Face their rapist. You know what I mean, so, if they were, they were raped as a young child
and that's what's affecting you for the like you're going to face that individual during and that's that's pretty traumatic for an individual right, they're grown up and their uncle was molesting them for years upon years upon years, if that's still affecting them in their life, they're going to face that in their journey and that's tough. But you know what you need to face that to move on and with these medicines. Do they also work on the brain so that they promote neurogenesis, which meanings like you know, brick brain growth may they're. Turning on parts of the brain that may have not been working before, and I think that's what we're seeing in in the successful lot of these guys if they do have mild tb eyes and there they have the scarring that we're talking about and maybe parts of their brain we're not allowing them to function. Well. It is allowing them to function. One now so there's a host of things and- and I don't want to get in science- is I'm way above my pay great jacko. But you know this experience was was radical. It was one. Eighty for me was life changing and life saving and ambrosch,
it came in the day after I walked down the hallway and I first of all I freaked out because it hit me when I was in the car headed there, and I was very uncomfortable and I was raised. You know super conservative, and I feel like in I was in the survival mode and suddenly peace had come and in the car on the way there I had this moment where I was like. I can't go. I dunno what we've just done. I think what we've done is bad. I'm so scared to face it, and my girlfriend was like you have to go he's asking and we told him you're coming to you have to go, and I
when they're so uptight and scared of? Oh, it was the most nerve wracking feeling, and I heard him walking down the hall- and I was just like. Oh my gosh, please please let this have worked and he came around the hall and immediately. I could just see that he was back. It was like it was literally like being reunited with the person that I met, which is a complete and utter. Schism. Language might fuck it early if it really through me and then in the best ways, and also in the worst way, it's because then you start to doubt it and second guess like it's too good to be true and like you're sweating, your walls down really go. Do that because it's too it's this isn't going to last
so a lot of spouses of experience that, in that mild freak out, you know, is certainly replaced with this feeling of complete relief and then how do we maintain? This So the first thing I did I said amra. This is exactly I mean the first thing out of my mouth was like this is exactly what the guys need. I say we keep getting. You know I keep getting phone calls. Have you know, friends that are like going like. I was like dude. I can't take care you cause. I can't fucking take her myself right now. So when I experiences like this. The first thing I said as like, we gotta figure out a way till I get our friends here and do the same thing like we have to. Forgot to raise money because someone paid for me in a four thousand dollars or whatever it was, and so I said well, how do we? How do we get? You know our bodies and families that are struggling to do the same thing said. I don't know it's a well like we gotta go raise money, that's will start a non profit. Had no idea what you're talking about
We started our profit will raise money and then we'll find our friends, so they could get the same healing that, like, I feel like I'm experiences that maybe a handful like yeah, we didn't we we now I ridden honestly, we didn't know unless we did well, then we are contacted by Elizabeth, and she said I want to give to a veteran organization. Is, he actually had is treatment on veterans days was really special and then end of year. Giving you know right after that in december made this lady contact moccasins it a recommendation for veterans organization to give to, and he goes you know, and you can't give you a tax write off. But if you pay this clinic, I could get. You know five of my friends down there for a treatment that could save their life and she was totally on board and that's what really launched what has become that's been.
We want to talk about it. We don't talk about it because it so stigmatized and so have you to say or struggling like. Maybe some of our internal friends knew primarily Is the wives were talking not because the guys we're talking? And so my was I don't wanna jinx it I dont want. Sue? I dont know how to work for everyone. I dont know if it will continue working for us. I dont want to talk. Bout it until twelve months have gone by and we raise money in, provided this opportunity for twelve other guys to go down there and at that point maybe we'll talk about it This was not one for a lake in a pr and stepping and the shadows? So this is a big deal, but I won't scum by ourselves a year and get some really good data and come out with like a little bit of foundation beneath us and.
His dream it on veterans day so november eleventh, would have been the one. Your mark, chowder wilkinson, took his life on october, twenty eightth, and we were sitting in his view I'll just days before the one year anniversary of markets are in your right around the same time and who had been to the little creek chapel so many times for war funerals, and this it's so different and I wasn't seeing all the same guys that would deploy it. You know with markets and be at all these other funerals and, like you know, they had more medals and they had more gray hair and they had more wrinkles and they were. You know getting older and becoming like you could see in their faces that, like they were are going, and this is the first suicide funeral had been too and I started shaking jogger like I had this trend,
will release response at child's funeral, where I was jack hammering and shaking the whole bench was shaking, people were looking down like quit, is going on down there, and I was just overcome with this conviction of like if we don't haug, and we don't step out and get out of our comfort zone more guys are going to die by suicide and gorillas do whatever it takes to prevent that cause this community and this chapel can't take that we're not going to let that happen and so restarted beer and basically just stopped hiding kind of what we were doing and started speaking about it a little because we thought of restart speaking about it. You know, and of course we talked to sarah- and we just said hey, you know we're just going to we're going to start talking about this little bit. So people know so in the unlikely event that an individual
it is getting to the point where Chad got to. They might pause and go. Oh, you know what there's something I haven't tried or there's. This thing that I heard is working for some individuals. After you know, cause mostly a lot I mean most of these individuals are on the same path like they go to an ico: the goodies brand clinics they're on a bunch of these mood, stabilizers and then they're like okay, we will now why so I at that point you said fuck my career, because our still trying to figure out how to get into your corporate amerika or whatever. I just said. I think this is more important and If someone is not going to hire me or doesn't want to work with me because we're talking about psychedelic medicines, then like shame on them like I don't need, I don't want to. I don't want to work with an individual like open your mind a little bit. We found something that works and that's the story here. The stories not marks now
we're running around doing psychedelic drugs or running a cold which we were told by away. Initially we were running a cold which is kind of funny, but now we're we're trying to heal people. That's all we found something that worked and that's what happened and and Oh, that was it. We just started speaking about it. We started doing your interview in a few there may be a small odd cast, you know an end in a one thing leads to another people get interested people if money want to donate, and I also know how the community is like What I love most about the community is just this like unwavering commitment to caring for one another and for every person that comes through our programme, because the advocacy rates are so high. They refer back three to five of their buddies, and so it creates in a need that we simply you know, are having a really hard time meeting. But to date we've provided funding for over six hundred. Other
operator is not all fields. We serve all branches and smash operations by you know it's. It's really taken on a life of its own and it absolutely started at Chad. Welcome since funeral, and this just goal of ending better and suicide Did you oh you're, original and like when you first came out and started talking about it? That was after Chad's funeral that I ted's funeral is whenever I was so convicted of like it everything we do, I'm keeping Chad wilkinson and Sarah and the kids right here, because it is the fall out from suicide like to survive.
These combat unemployment and then lose your loved ones to suicide, like I can't even farther, like just super convicted. How long did it take to getting traction by almost immediately must we may live. We had gotten traction megatrend in terms of the need, but woe didn't necessarily match that was the donor dollars It was very stigmatize me we're talking about four years ago at this point: it is still very stigmatized an unknown like there's a lot of their the lack of action asia around psychedelic. Their reason then there's miss information around, take it alex and so to combat those juice dogmas and also try to com. The stigma saying you need help has been like a pretty daisy nervous. War on all fronts right, yeah yeah
well, then you go into the the real fun were of lake Military leadership and policymakers and big pharma, the ay and It seems like it's getting really good traction right now. Is it isn't it yeah, yeah because veterans or driving it and the veterans driving it at the tipp of the spear Cecile communal. In the broader special vibrations community and, like I don't know, if I mean to get something done I'll call, you guys, so you ve, so that so that the charity is called. Are, you got you honour, t shirt there right. It's vets, solutions, rags veterans, exploring treatment solutions and- It's that solutions, dot org. If people want to go and check that out and can they dont aid from there and all and
What's what's the plan there on that side of things just continue to grow continue to accept donations continue, get more people treatment java, we get, upwards of ten qualified applications a day needing funding day, and it is so overwhelming link actually direct it when we have to go through applications to do it on mondays and have certainly have a certain number of grand sir funds allocated and dumb choosing who gets- it's fun when everyone is so deserving. It's like to react reaction. I mean we actually have to know. We had a like an algorithm built in to like rack and stack who's done most combat deployments like what are they going through so it? Actually, you know it ranks the individuals you know or if there's like an immediate crisis, they merely get put to the top. They get a phone call immediately and so there's a whole here. There's a whole system to it, because again others, ten, if your tongue, but only being able to support a hundred
five to two hundred a year there's you know there's most of the people are not getting funding and there are thousands tens of thousands that could use it or need it or are trying to access it, but because these are schedule, one substances united states. They have to travel abroad. So in one of our, I would say most effective talking points when we're talking to policymakers and leader leaders is that in all our nations veterans are leaving the country they fought for over access to medical care. And this is so far superior to anything else. It's currently available, at least from my perspective, what seeing as theirs healing happening in four key areas, veteran suffering and so,
We were in such a bad way. If you would have given me immediate relief in one of the four areas, it would have been an absolute blessing. The fact that it provides a meteor relief for most people in all four categories is unheard of so the first category, psychological, trauma so anything that affecting some one even on us, a conscious of all whether its childhood trauma repress trauma in you. Don't you remember war trauma. What will whatever The source of the trauma is that it deals with that, and the mark is that it shows you their trauma and then you're able to work through it confront it deal with it. Put it away, be done with it and there's an anti addictive benefit, which is really ironic, because these drugs are scheduled as being addictive and like a high potential for abuse, they're actually being used to treat addiction
but because they're so challenging to even research in the united states that data is largely missing, so marcus and how many other guys that are going down? There might have a full blown addiction, but they have substance used to sort. And so for markets. It was alcohol. Some guys go down there because their hooked on opium lloyd's, whatever the addiction is it it like real that's it. Scrubbin resets, those suckers receptors ends the addiction near no longer has the upper hand there's a physiological benefit as it pertains to tb. I that's we primarily right grants for I've again and five emmi odium t protocol. That's two of this. Six psychedelic that we can provide funding for most guys are going down there to do. I begin and five m yo weird just wrapping up a study was Stamford the problem
The data is not released yet, but I think that it will show significant improvements and cognitive functioning, neurological functioning. It creates this really incredible nerve us to see in the the brains, ability to change itself create new neural pathways, neuronal connections, What whatever it's doing in the brain as it relates to t v? I is pretty remarkable in our stanford study. I think, will prove that. The fourth thing is a spiritual connection or reconnect and- and I think that that's what science will never be able to fully explain that when someone feels as though they're put on this earth by a higher power and we're all connected and like you know, we're all
humans and we're alive in the grass is alive and the flowers are alive and the animals are alive, and you see that you're part of this really incredible huge ecosystem of purpose and perfection. You feel as though you have a place to belong again, and you feel this god connection that I think, as the answer to a lot of society's issues right now, so psychological anti, addictive, physiological and spiritual When you check all four of those boxes, you go home like, I feel pretty good now, on the back end, there's a lot of things that are really important so screening and other one of our screening categories is like how committed are you to this we ve got guys come into us to say I don't know anything about this. Nobody said to do it and then we ve got guys say I've been researching this three year end of chain
my diet and I'm really committed to working with a coach those guys are going to have the best chance for success. The spouse support is another huge factor in overall trajectory and success. So you know it's every its second alec just provides this massive reset. And then you meet when you did. Someone like from veto position to one me like taken, stand up and take her from their especially guys like you guys so geyser leaving these weeks with this check list of now. What has now I feel great again and so for markets and for hundreds of others despoil near one guy and you're feeling, like you know, suddenly you've got a thousand pounds lifted off of you, you're sleeping better when you're sleeping better getting up earlier and getting up early. You can work out now and you work out. You want to take supplements, you can take supplements, you might as well eat right and it just becomes the sort of like self propelling.
Bio, hacking. Snowball effect in the very asked ways and those of the guys that are going either through these remarks workable changes, but anyone thou would think like oh you're, just going to mexico to do drugs. Neuro. He will let are going down. There are leading into the hardest work of their lives and actually have come face to face with things that they might have been running from for decades? She's been conservative about the sandwich. Thirty two, but it's the results are remarkable, like so remarkable that I think there's going to be a lot of eyes on it once they release it to the public wednesday,
no, no, no, no and it won't. It won't be published for quite some time we published, but we're we're going up there Wednesday, just to they're going to talk about the results efficiently. But not just from the reduction of symptoms like we were talking about earlier, but also the fm arise that are coming out before and after are like sounding it'll, be groundbreaking. It won't just be groundbreaking for veterans it'll, be groundbreaking for contact sport athletes for first responders, first responders for alzheimer's patients for parkinson's patients. Like the the changes in the brain on the physiological level, I hypothesize that there is it not been anything like it to date. Marcus when you are, I'm dragging you back real, quick yeah. What gimme, example of what you see. He said
but he got gory number one. Do you know that it's cycle? What that that it's psychedelic, or does it feel, like the real thing and like you, He just an example, just any example to suit people kind of can connect all these positive things to like what you see when you are on this journey. Yes area. I tried hard nazis were jigsaw. We're trying to call this thing trip I picked out of so valued. It's funny! You say that because we too obvious you around the whole kind of medical psychedelic community now and you hear all these
things are how they correct people, because you know a politician doesn't want to hear like drug, doesn't want to hear psychedelic. They immediately think of woodstock or you know, or so you know, we've been doing the same thing like we say this. We don't say that it all means the same thing. So precious appreciate that I'll make a very simple one and one that's not bloody or gory, and my My close friends, his experience is he here.
Was sitting down and each individual from and from extortion was like dressed in white and we'd, sit down and put their hand on his shoulder and say: hey man, it's okay, like I'm good, but you can. Let me go now, and but he had the conversation with that person and he would look at them and go yeah okay and then that guy would go and then another guy from extortion would sit down dressed in white and say: hey man, I'm good like where I'm good I'm in a good place, and then that person would go in and each person that he was like, obviously having whatever that this person was dealing with, had to do with all the buddies he just lost on that hilo and once that was gone again, he he just
dealt with whatever. That was his trauma, may have been locked back in his subconscious as amber mentioned, but that's what he was dealing with in life and once he faced them and talked to them and they talked to him and he told them was okay. He's okay, like he's not bad anymore, like he, let he let that shit go. And die I yet we hear these stories like over and over and over again in it some its There are different, but they're all the same, and I think that's what's in a pretty remarkable about it, I'm develop some of my own. Where is whether they're, true or not embryos theories were science has proven my theories, but my theory is that, whatever The trauma response is, it goes back to the original of the trauma and some people channel that trauma in
ways that society deems unhealthy versus healthier. I feel like what I've seen in the special operations community is. That is something in it early? Childhood has like enabled this sort of lake dialing down of suffering leg like either the community is able to maintain such suffering and so a lot of guys I've felt are going. Lay back to childhood in dealing with leg, sort of repressed things, and I don't I mark is, if you tell anyone stories like about your actual experience of going back to actual memories and shouted, but then also cheer question juggle on why the blood in the gore. I also feel like when you, in the face of evil, the sort of can stick to you and mark is hard to get through
some really dark- very demonic in a heaviness to come out on the other side and he's been back to do. I begin to sense he's. Like basically does this annual protocol reset or like a year and a half younger, and so, if he's in the basement of his soul. Every year he gets a floor higher. And the last time he did. I begin, which would be their fourth time. He described it as blissful so yes, I wasn't, it wasn't painful. It wasn't tough. It was an angry and feel like outside in fighting demons. Are you hear a lot? A guy many talk, I literally like fighting demons. None of that it was just just kind of like peaceful surreal and not tough. In a word it told me, is I come good. I I think I've scroll.
Whatever I needed to scrub he's come the darkness. As you know, you can't I just got rid of any the garbage that I think was you know affecting me, and so I mean I'm like. Right now. I don't have nightmares anymore and I think that was like a lot The blood gore girl, like you know you go to try to pull the trigger. Unlike the magazine would fall out or, like Barrow would melt that just all the dumb stuff, like I dont, have have those visions had more it is it is, and some of it is funny I mean if you hear some of the stories you're like man, that's fucking, hilarious right. I especially like the stories laughing because, like everyone has that dream, like the bullets, are working, you forgot, or you are one hundred times and they're. Just like look at you, I'm sure your video he has the harpist. Obviously, when I'm really good at fighting, why can't I knock you out my dream exactly so
We are trying to get. This too is meant. Veterans as we can that three guys working on right now and eat, you tell me earlier, you are also looking to take this in in a direction private as well. Yes, why, as a as a privately owned company yeah, so you know as amber, was alluding to earlier. You know the amount of applications we get a date. Those are just from veterans. The amount of individuals that reach out via instagram we're facebook or link now really linked in and lincoln's like a uniform special networks are a or lotta like lotta corporate lotta of ceos and entrepreneurs. Just asking hey, you know: how do I do this? You know why did you talk on so, and so, where do I go to find these treatments? Can you introduce we do a coach culture, therapists and so in the more I saw over the last two years I just amber. You know we started this. We said hey we'd, help we want to help art are team.
First team guys, but we want to help in all special operations, and then we want help all of veterans, and then we will help you. Athletes, like you know, and I felt players at ninety nine percent brains. I found autopsies. You know from the individual's that of turn. Oh, my four or had city everyone Those individuals- and you know it like we want to help anyone that is like going through the same thing and again it's not. Everyone is just everyone that is struggling the same way and that was kind of like my vision a long time ago. Is you don't want to start with veterans and help help our help our brothers and sisters but like I want to help everybody and do it? the interest of some. You know VC that started donating to vat and you said hey, I really love what you're doing like, I think this is needed. You know I, I understand personalized medicine and how do we take this?
introduce it to the broader population and reach more people. I so well, let's work on that. So I've been working on that for a year and were actually watching this week and the copies called Torah tee. Or a tar, a mind. The website will guitar remind dot. Com right now, we'll have a we base, have a landing and info page for people to go to and just put in some information and out those targeting some. You know some newsletters letters and some some some info but launching at the end of this year or be you know the first couple weeks of January world king, a care, navigation and directory and basically a platform for four psychedelic. Retreats clinics providers, coaches, basely, a marketplace
It connect all these individuals and so the individual's that reaching to us on a regular basis and saying hey? Where do I go? What do I do we'll building that platform for them and you know we're going to provide educational content, we're gonna, vet everything and have in high standards and in and protocols that you know that these providers in the us that are doing this right. Now, it's going to be ketamine, ketamine, assisted psychotherapy, because that's the only thing, that's legal! So we're just you know the the vision releases build the the largest platform in the world to to connect all all the stakeholders and events Finally, we will be collecting data on all these individuals and we will be on insurers and making sure, at the end of the day that they pay for these because right now, not everybody can,
a six thousand dollars to go outside the? U s and do it right now. It's like the top one percent can do that or if you're a nonprofit. You know when you raise money for this, then an individual can go but again we're support. In two hundred people a year. How do you support twenty million insurance is going to have to pay for that? So the idea with tar mind is: do we collect? We connect all the stakeholders and psychedelic medicine and then eventually Go to ensures an and show them the date and say hey. This is working. You need to offer this up now that benefit and pay for these individuals and subsidize he's treatment. So tall, remind tar mine reactor from tar, mind, Torah is the is one of the highest the most. I guess you call it
important day at ease in buddhist and hindu traditions and ass, a goddess of far enough empathy and bringing people to the light and those suffering to bring them to deliver, and so it's kind of a kind of her. I thought a cool name especially where a kind of we came from and where we're going in what is doing the people, so the url was available and the euro was available, for, I think twelve dollars actually ot. Well, it sounds like laid got work and up to date right. This thing is launching a couple days. We talked about that solutions that solutions dot org you on social media year on year at mark europe, Marcus capone. Then you guys have. Am I marcus underscore amber underscore capone the eyes of the other. I started that ensue rampage. Wasn't we both link low?
the social media. So we're really not honoured that much, but we definitely help with our social media accounts, because we want to make sure that were providing information. To others that are interested. Psychedelic therapies are poised to be the next your breakthrough in mental health care, so as is her eyes, were the last major breakthrough in mental health care. Thirty five years ago, yeah really offers us our first suddenly work by. There is done that warning label on the side of assets are, I prescriptions is, as this may trigger lincoln in uptake up increased senses ideation. Why are we biting better and suicide with anything linked to suicide? That's so asinine to me, so, as veterans continue to drive this forward in the united states, I certainly feel like this Alex are poised to come on on the scene, a lot faster there may be some had initially anticipated. There is some of the conservative in a lawmakers eta,
We are now sure dan know put the archers put, but through an amendment to provide funding not for veterans biloxi- and this was, I think, a complete surprise for ebay for tract of duty. So he thinks active duty should have access to this. If they need it and of course you know governor repairing whose in our corner from day one area, this possibility, texas and he's just been a strong component or propose. Of what we're doing again, because it's a tool that works there. You know that's all he cares about. That's it's really good to see the open mind of people realise that this in an that's the same thing, I've seen you have had some good friends. I had to go to my or come on here and like he. Actually, he I think I think I do. About this on the part, but but you he asked me like hey, do you think
I should do some dude. I have no idea, so I called burger Joe rogaine and tim ferris, not like hey. You know like what you guys think I've airline lambs are. They actually know they both were like war thoughtful about it, and Joe had had to code on the past and he was like he was. Yeah. I think I'd like. I think it would be good for him and I was like cool and I I said, hey man, I'm in no position to recommend this stuff, but here's what I got from my friends that know more about the stuff in you know, TIM Ferriss is really involved in you know. Johns hopkins stuff, that's going on, so I feel like at least I you know I'm never a person. It claims to know anything. I don't know I mean I, I don't ever want to do that, but I have talked to people at you know, gave the best recommendation from there, spectre which, and and he went down there and he did it and he said it was also man really help them out a lot and- and I mean that guy's been through-
frequent ringer, you know just been through the ringer, as you know, losing Freakin team in man, and he came back and in a much better spot. So when I see things I can, then you have like a real conservative. Like you know parry dislike on board that that's just really go to sea and end dan's. Obviously you know he's got friends that have done in and for You know he's he's taken it forward. Now I think it's true leadership, you that's what I say because again I don't think I'm sure the stairs exactly I was like this doesn't sound right. This is crazy and then you do some research. You talk to really you talk to friends, and then you have like love ones, that you see I've gotten better and it's the only decision to make but again to do it the right way- and I know I'm glad that you talked to people like TIM. You know in Joe rogan
and I'm glad they didn't. You say we go ahead and do their life also lets. You know, and we ve seen that with some of the retreats, because again we we write grants for innovation. Seeking out these treatments. So we talk to a lot of vetted retreats and some I have actually questionable wait a minute. It's a combat veteran we're. We're not so sure that we want to take that person because you they got ptsd, we're not sure if they're gonna flipped out- and so you know what. What we're dealing with individuals are, like you know, worse, the worst in terms of in terms of like trauma and and some other things. A lot of these other places. Issues to dealing with some people are coming home with, I guess, depression or I'm young I've a little anxiety I want to deal with. So this should be definitely looked at and approached careful, I got asked a question the other day about they basically, I was ok. You know I'm hanging out with these friends and their drinking
what and I'm not really drinking and they're smoking pot- and you know I'm not really smoking pot or when I do I kind of like waste the weekend or wish the ny like. What do you think you know? How can I drink less and you know, is it cool to drink, sometimes and blah blah blah blah right? And I I started kind of answering the question that- and I was I just sorta said: I have seen enough people's lives ruined from drug now, the hall the I actually at this juncture, my life, I can't even say like a dude, it's ok, you know have so I just can't do I can't do it anymore. I just I've. Seen too many people's lives destroyed from drugs now call in so when I talk about this stuff, it's coming from someone that, like is as far I don't think I could be any more well. I guess I could be a little bit more just think that drugs now call are so bad for you and I've seen a ruined, so many people s I've, seen ruined frequently I humbly team guys have you seen just like try
their lives with just alcohol can count, it is ridiculous, and so I can't get behind it at all and and yet at the same time I've had Plenty of friends have gone. They ve done this and what I like about what you guys we're talking about it's a hard core screening. It's not like oh, you feel a little bad. Ok, let's just jump right into this. It's like hey, let's, try some other protocols along the way and make sure that this, What you really need, and then I don't know if I want to use the term last resort goes out of you. Consider gas considered a last resort. But to me it's like. Ok, I've tried this, I've tried that object, something else. It's been too much time in a row bottom, and I need help- and this seems like ok, I need to get in there because because from my perspective, a scene, drugs now call ruined so many people's lives that I just I just can't get behind it. But you know here you,
something that people are getting like addicted to it. It's not, you know, Not like the seven or whatever you said, nine freakin postscript prescription drugs, addiction yeah year so appreciate appreciate that side of it and not just throw innocent people. Just like you know. No one should be thrown into situations like this sum you gotta go through the proper screening and, and go in the proper facility. You know you guys talking about. Like you know four. The sharm in from wisconsin or whoever your whenever this light, just going in a random places in doing it or at a slayer concerts. Now what we're talking about at all in life I said it seems to have held it. I know it's helped. I know it helped. I mean obviously I'm sitting here in front of you and it helped you get back from the brink. I've got plenty of other friends have done the same thing, so awesome to see this kind of progress, probably a good place, to wrap it,
everything else now to say thank you for having us think for having an open mind. I know it's. You very nerve, racking too palm skeldergate, by the way? I'm sorry I'm scared like I. I don't want to do anything to my brain. I don't wanna like I'm scared of it. I'm scared of maybe It's like that, weird, like control thing where I don't want to, but like I'm scared, what I'm scared of is like. I don't wanna mess anything up. I don't want to. I don't want to like, I feel, fucked up for lack of a better word, but I feel fine, so I feel fine. So I'm always like oh man. I wouldn't want to do that because it makes me scared to to mess something up, but that's because I feel I feel pretty good right now. So I think that my fear of it is a healthy fear and it I think that's good, though, like I think when you approach you anything with that could be risky like you should proceed with some
fear or respect- and I guess you wanna say yeah. You know I mean it's like the first time we were playing with Damn oh and the other staffer you like yeah, get thrown a hundred grenades in over a thousand or days like nothing could happen by like. Actually, something really can happen, but he approached with respect and you do take care and you make sure you you take them exactly and you know you- you know you don't pull the you know, drop this. You know, drop the grenade, throw the spoon or whatever do the same same thing with these medicines? You know approach them with care. Only do me if you need to if you feel fine in your good like why I've never done this academic, no higher. You haven't, you know, and I don't know called the do. I feel like whenever you know you. You know- and I will say that I have seen it does seen these medicines change. The lives like not just help, but literally change the lions, be them be of of the difference between life and death. For countless,
ass operators and dumb for a lot of spouses as well. There's a lot of trauma to heel. I used to catch more his looking out the window like this thousand yards stare and I would say linked. Please help me understand, what's going on in your head, what are you thinking about right now and he would say how much better off you would be without mere how much easier year to year life would be in the kids. Lives would be without me here. So I feel like any time you walk up to that line. You have to have an open mind of like whatever works. I have totally changed the way I think about what I have been told as drug verses, a plant link My faith is so important to me and I feel it god has given us everything that we need on earth a lot of these medicines. Most of them originate from plants. So I The really like check myself and I have thought this
made by man in a laboratory. That's proscribed by a doctor and a lab coat is what is the cure and a plant is a drug and I'm almost like flip bought them. And I I feel like so many of these answers are found in nature and found within us, and so I've just seen replicated time after time again that you give someone this opportunity with something: that's god given and totally unadulterated, and you create this reset and connection and like oh they're, good they're good, as opposed to like putting a band aid out for band aid after band in the. U S, government has big farmers number one customer and so in a getting people off of that cycle, this carousel of pharmaceuticals is, does unintended bypass active. What we're doing, but me and we are seeing guy's an gals really start to live again.
Arguments that jacket. So I was on his others, antidepressants in whatever through november, seventeen thousand seventeen when it went down for treatment, haven't touched a prescription sense, but anything. So it's it's pretty remarkable and again my stories like one of hundreds, if not the only one which is nice, could get rid of all those Do you see only everything that I would add really quickly is another unintended byproduct of our work is that we seen this incredible reunification. Just this is a topic that everyone can
generally agree upon is better in healthcare, and so we're seeing both sides of the aisle like actually come together, actually want to work together. Actually like one another again, and so I I hope that that ripple out effect continues across our nation. I feel like we need healing. Now more than ever, and it's pretty surreal, it's happening, it's an honor, marcus closing brought. No, I just you know first off, thank you for having us on here. I know this was a different topic for you and again trust me. This was nothing I ever intended out to even think about getting involved in
I I just I see the power in it and you know into I approach these medicines carefully, they're they're not to be used at the slayer concert. I think the way we're going about it is the right way. I think the way that he's going to be introduced to the public is going to be done correctly. I think it's going to be. Really medically driven industry, at least first in oh, if it goes other routes, and it's not we're here- we were talking about, and so I I You know I I wanted to tell people that, if they're interested in knowing their searching make sure they do, the research make sure define vetted writers have been doing this for a long time that know what they're doing make sure have a coach therapists understands how these medicines work again
It's why we built that's. Why I'm building tar mind again is to provide access and affordability for four people, and so glass in saying that there's there's hope. So, if you're, you know, if you're out there, in you're thinking that there's dirt I think I had a you there's, there's no purpose in a. Why are you here? I pray I miss that that is a that's, a temporary thought and one hundred per cent you can climb out of that and once you do, you'll see how cool life can be and to get back to your old self or maybe invent a new, better, better person. We are living our best life and we really are, and it is such an incredible blessing. I.
Participants right of every day that this is actually happening? Markets we says I have to get in the final word, which is there some accuracy to the housework, less work when something else that I just thought of when you said that is that, in part of what we're doing or to reverse that these stigmas, especially around asking for help, is adopting more of a mindset that really really true strength is vulnerability. I think that our society would say the opposite, but it takes a lot of courage to be vulnerable and and we're seeing that day in and out of ads yeah. If someone I'm going to get the last word of some of the things we like coming up here and talking about life, all the shit that's gone on and think we enjoy it spotlight is fucking crazy, because we don't at all, but we definitely feel it's necessary so like now,
You think it's about us. I think it's just like this needs to be done. Well, I mean numb Thank you. Thank you for both of you stepping into the spotlight, and I know it's a a bright spotlight. I know it's a burning spotlight in many cases you know when you talk about being a chad funeral at and and just knowing that you had to do something and you you had at least an answer for a lot of people, so Thank you so much for for joining us. Some thanks, thanks for your service and yeah marcus thanks for your service in the teams in and for And in the dotted line and risking life and limb- and you know amber- I dont get the chance- my wife is always like she's. My wife has Cyril percent chance of coming on. This partnership is not like to talk to anybody should, but for you you for all the wives for all the spouses that
you know. You can put your name on our line, but you put your name on the dotted line and what the wives and spouses in families in your kids, what they go through is so harsh, and yet you there, and you supported when you continued sport and now your support in all the families out there and all the veteran so. Thanks what you have done in the past. Thanks warrior continuing to do as you help veterans get out of the darkness and move toward blight and life. Thanks for what you're doing. Thank you, James choco. It's been awesome. Thank you with that marcus and amber have left the building, so pretty dynamic story.
The change and the journey that they've been through for sure where'd you, you are sitting in the corner. You are so you are off camera on that one echo charles. What do you think is less good evening echo by the good indie very interesting? It was funny even from the beginning. I was relating a lot because I, like both Bertha he's one year old in both, It is in december, so ended college later or we're late and entered collar football, and even in houses for as the room was it. You would not know him he's saying about alcohol like all how's. This can affect me like how can it you know? You thought there were two without all else like I'd always asking. Friends like collecting surging intervals like twenty twenty one and so always ass, like eight like. Can you tell that you're drunk?