« Jocko Podcast

361: You Can't Change The Temperature Of The Ocean. It's Gonna Be What It's Gonna Be. With Vietnam SEAL, Gil Espinoza.

2022-11-23 | 🔗

Fire Fighter and retired Navy Frogman, Gil Espinoza.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This is joggled park. S number three sixty one with echo charles and me jocker willing good evening, echo even In march of nineteen, sixty nine, the rand preparation, a semi private, think tank that specialised in research and analysis for the department of defense, published a report, title the navy seal commandos a case study of whatever decision making and organizational change, As far as I know, the first academic level study of the seal teams. The report's author was frances, J being west a former force recall marine vietnam war veteran, whose investigation had begun a year earlier and whose research had produced a raft of documents, dozens of interviews and the fao, hand, observation of several seo missions into the wrong, sat and may Kong delta. from this research west had produced
in eighteen page report, whose introduction provided a brief description of seal training training. He estimated at a cost of around fourteen thousand dollars per man, plus an overview of the seals commitment to vietnam at its height a committee. that never exceeded a hundred. Fifty seals or rough The one thousand one hundred and fifty fewer than the in country height of the green berries total compliment is a commitment that stood out and even stark relief when place next. The authors, obvious admiration for the seals progression from low cluster coastal raiders to the wars, most aggressive, direct action, commandos. Admittedly, com. Those who had had no business becoming such and thus had drawn. The interest of the same preeminent think tank that he cried U S, militaries nuclear defence strategy. Intended as a study on organizational change. The report's true purpose:
had been to discover how the navy could have possibly succeeded in creating a land, focused commando force afore, that even the vietcong had reportedly dubbed the men with mean faces a color normally associated with the navy's traditional medium. It was up of personal importance to the author as the marine corps. The far more likely branch of service had never succeeded in creating anything similar. Also leave the author decided the most important. Factor in the seals infringement was owing to the seals themselves and the culture that weighed upon them drawn from a notorious, less selective training programme that produce few, five candidates the seals naturally had had to. find a mission that kept. It low, a circumcision,
that might have pushed them like the lips or the force recon marines into reconnaissance role. Had they had any one to pass and the intelligence to they hadn't Had there been any great pressure from the riverine force to engage in any sort of green berets style, advisory duty or civic action organizational orphans with no larger, forced to support or control them possessing no lover, admiration for the vietnamese, the seal, had set out into the swamps, not prove themselves their training. In already done. That said, the author, but because not to go would have been in, sk usable to the others they had developed a collective value system which emphasised physical, hardiness and courage, and they liked to fight. So what tactics of patrol and ambush had proved unproductive
nobody, not a seal, meaning. A blue water superior officer had ordered them to try something else. They had just done it. What strikes me as most remarkable about the seal story. The author concluded is performance and there a bill need to learn and adapt in a decentralized sub, optimizing environment, the navy these traditional latitude and the eu? it is traditional adaptability created What several unidentified seals soon described to a documentary film maker. the wars unsung soldier and We consider without question the best troops. It country has both descriptions notable because they didn't use the word sailors and just or of the readers digest appraisal that had done.
Then the wars super commandos by the end, These would be assessments that we're next to impossible to dispute. I'm not right, there's little excerpt from the book by war beneath the walls, a book written by Ben he's been he's gonna podcast a couple times he's a former seal, and this is Indisputably speaking of indisputable is the best book about the history, agents of this. teams, that's ever been written and that section that I just read is from a second a book called culmination Is where the roots of the seal teams? we grew into what we ultimately became from our frogman forefathers. It was in mom where this He proved their metal as a maritime direct
should force. and it is an honour to have one of those vietnam, aerosols, human, tonight. Mr Gil Espinosa to share his periods and lessons and gill. Thanks for joy, good evening I heard you were. heard you kind of smiling at some of those descriptions too that this book with what was going on? Is it sir. It's kind of interesting of how they, I think, even he looks at us using the teams. He looks at us, but every frogman has his own way that he looks at things every single one of us write and do, and I'm just thinking about other people In all this, even roger write his is all mindset. Now he looks at it can be totally different and even operational. You come you get them doing something and years later, your bullshit somebody in the scanning knowing Indeed, if we did, this bullshit, I'm sure was gerald. Nothing was
sk electors in august. Are you sure, The whole history right there and then a guy goes was a generals. Who is it tastes, collectors another that you may go? girls even there, So some of our story is exemplary. Stories get conflicted with other people stories, but You do remember the ones that way. There were specifically yours at king from here and we're talking about the heart of the frog me. You know that Then I see worries he's. Writing from you know, yeah. He A great job and and actually it's pretty incredible, some of the stuff that he documents for since there is a scene where rangers are being overrun and he's got quotes of as they're making radio calls. Hey we're being overrun, we need more support. God LEO, that the commanders, if not with them- and he say and do the best you can gods- that kind of thing and you read it
think it all. You know he didn't. You seem to have done a good job, sort of sort of coming up with what the dialogue would be. And then you read the footnote: it's not something. He came up with its documented These are there. Are people writing down the radio calls and it's exactly what these guys said. So he's a very. They took him seven years to write this Boca incredible book, but nothing better than the horse's mouth and since we got the horse here, I've been trying to write a book since I gave your thought in my head, as no leaving vietnam or being on the fire department, and wrestling in college mean the whole thing coming back home and looking back into where it all began. Being a little boy, but let's get into unaware? Did it began less? Let's start at the beginning, but you can tell I'm not as Big as echo or you re, and then when you you got a class, you look run mean leg guy. Like you and I went to us because what the hell you doing you're right, but is it kid as risen, borer move.
Okey ford, whereas a little kid to bolder and lift all my family, my grandma, my answer, my on because everybody everybody in my family were moving to boulder someplace. I never knew- and this is with your my mom and dad or mom- and dad right and MIKE well known what made them decide to move economics, if she were migrant workers. My dad became a sucker to contract And then later on, I just got really really hard and we had an uncle their own, the barbershop of in boulder, so the family moved where the family was right. This dislike now right really move where you have somebody do to get a foothold in the inner saw in kindergarten. This kid beat me up. I saw my brother unkind of wine and buzz what happened, which up gangs guy my beat me, I'm gonna my I know his brother. He also ached and drag me to his place.
My brother was my hero. Bananas, like five like five years old when five years old I was doing so when I was a member as one you hang on a door walk out, leave me he come round and I've got to have one or two. And finally, look around, and I remember three or four: I could get my elbow upon the door right and need help me doing chips. We had a role for swing. He had me climbing up that rope. When I was five when I was five, I can. What year is this? So this is like nineteen, fifty three or nineteen, because you were born in nineteen forty, so forty seven yeah so yes five years old is fifty through your brother hat you're older brother had like a her early start on the physical culture. yeah he was released in so he s, arrest is resolutely jobs and then, when you went to bolder his kicking guys in boulder, but there were still bill underline racist stuff, and so what And so what are you you're, you're native american love for pickers problem? grandma aspect. Greece movie identify mainly a spanish ankara. Now
he gone or not mexican, because our people did not come from mexico. They came from an old brain from spain from through california than to new mexico. To establishing, through this, and he slammed grants and then with the mosquitoes right. The native americans, the blended, but lending culture And so then everything subsistence living than the government concerned says you gotta pay taxes It was all subsistence, so are going to pay taxes when they never really made any money, but you would trade ten chickens for a. For a cow or whatever miller is only ever doing all our school barter old school barter and then They had to sell their land and a move, and my my my dad's found me had some spend slammed grant stuff so step father. My dad dad died when he was like Maybe my dad says a government came in and gave all the men shots, dip, jury, shots and in on guys died. So they moved
and got up to rocky forbidden, establish himself. The community, my oh, my cousins of don't want block I'll go my grandma other I'll go my followers of the one block and literally there was a train track in the back of my yard, and- and there was one it was kind of like a cul de sac that went out to a main road and, on the other side, was a ditch water smoke like to make it so when I was in vietnam as hitherto, a kind of smoke? Zulu goodness knows I get so's between railroad track, dragging the river and we always told don't plans tracks. hopefully in the river In five years old, we had a pipe that went across the river. Writes a slow man, slow, ditch, Ordeal manhood or whatever it was his cousins were all about the same age. Wisting go across the ditch canyon upside down,
now is not a swim, pedestrian getting to the point of beans, young boy, little boy right, no fear! You don't that? Until somebody tells you don't go gunnar? Did you can drown? you, don't know a drowning this until somebody tell do one very important you got to get drowned right. Would you don't have that fear? You know you. Don't you don't know that your you don't know that black! You don't know that brown, you don't know the true what you don't know any of up your kid right, intelligent loving, during that now to carry us insist for life that powerful person is a little boy well I got my ass kicked by a mile rate. You know you get your ass, candy and maya right now, as you're climbing robes as having a good time. I'm a kitten- and I think all kids are like that right, initially world, I don't like that is so well it takes way over there and he says, had this kid come out. He also has his brother. They come out and I'm, like
now in order to maintain that part that intelligent, loving carrying with it natural curiosity zest for life, you haven't these natural physiology. releases which are laughing talking crying shaking sweating. Yawning and all that stuff right to keep that to keep them to keep an intact or song. through all that stuff. For my brother, I had a warrior brother. He wanted make sure he knew I was going to get my ass kicked on as a kid, so he took because I'm sure it happened to him, but he was mold brethren, analyst What's older? Was he than ninety nine years old, o dank? So that's a big spread. So he's a real like here, man yeah, he is the chief Turning to achieve, even though the navy had I want of in the navy, so this kid I was at my brother Nixon who goes now. Remember. Remember that little you showed me a duck under a duck under at a high crotch and throw should just do that
go because we really couldn't really do it when my brother, but he would show me alright, so I came up the kid camry that grabbed me with decanter. Down is as and when the storm down sit arm and make him say uncle, all rule the old days right through them say ongoing and on the ugi I'll my brother since Donovan. Never let anybody you know, don't lose your brother mess around anybody miss my brother. You just have not got his back. So I go to school back to liberty are a great skill, rochefort and everybody watch out. Little guy. Now they call me turkey, you know, I didn't know so then, when we left rocky ford, I'm crying all the way from rochefort to boulder and my dad gets tired of it. He says god if he kept. He he stopped at the overlook. You ever been to boulder colorado. He know when you come down into it is beautiful. I didn't stop crying my dad grabs me.
Pulls up several gatsby and throws me in the back. I dunno, if I'm going right as we were coming over this hill of the I dont have anybody let alone, were being alone like we start training or you go the navy, were you feel that you're alone, or any time you left islands right little boy to be alone, that that was the beginning of being a fragment, and I look at it now rank in Seoul. We came over. I looked I picked up because he threw me in the back of the goddamn you been inside in here, and I think the thing is we, those of us who introspective or really searching for what is who we are right. That little boys always who we were, but it gets covered about the bullshit. but when I went over- and I looked- I saw the mountains and in my heart I heard no were here and will be your friends wherever noses squander brave.
I look at him. I could see the silhouette of a moment and I look down I saw the shining light in a. it's the same thing that I got when I saw point loma what s going to get not right and they saw point moment. And in the fingers pointing that way to vienna right But when I, when I sense that I went okay so go to school in boulder again dang mrs beat me up deferred am I rather like seven, seven or eight. When you tell my brother, because I didn't you know I didn't want, I didn't want him to set up another prize fight for you right. It's my asking for five days, figure out- and that's when I understood the insight were. The insiders, when the talks to you the goes palm you get hit here in this catlike figure and stuff out dislike you,
first wrestling match or do detour via first appoint right, and I felt that that's what I was doing of sensing and understanding it and. then one day the outside, where came to me a crowd auditor early man, I hit him without high cross, dropped him down. You know and just started two times in my life. That time when I started beaten and badly another time when I came back from vietnam and gotten a fight with a guy, it felt like You never see the patriot in a wonder. He hacks up debt guided, kills his son. when I saw a movie, I start crying because, as we have felt right, it's totally not out of control. You don't know how these flash password totally out of control and it's always catch it. Always the anthem in the outside world always understands. What happening and what is doing is just when does he feel like stopping? And yet
said- warrior says that's enough, but they both cover the little boy is a little boy would have never wanted to have that fight in the first place. He wants to kid so then ask myself- and I did ass was What's wrong with me, that's not even the question. The question is what's wrong with charlie, I waited he was jack them. You know in. then later on account of became charlie. But when you find did you can wrestle and you're pretty tough guy? Then your big enough, Did you know you shouldn't even be picking on, but they know not a rustle their big eyes now the rest, but you do so. I am. I won by and then what happens? Another guy named Mary fox, big guy, you beat the hell out of me. Some like what the hell trying to figure this out
was the very first time that an ally came in. He was MIKE Martinez and he said, hey man, he says he's too little for you to fight. We fight me. I understood allies, you know and ass. I call them local mike had a really lorries might use my navigable greater you and at this moment that when no isn't there was in second grade so so that happened That was my library and. And then I came into this group is called gastric neighbourhood right. It was right, to the war. We are all born in forty seven, most of us, the poor lights, the Jews, the blacks. Worked on the on the train on the polish, the other guys other guys from from war to the may. He vehicles and the couple job these guys right what your neighborhood that was my neighborhood on GA street and boulder. So when people say
takes. It takes a village to resettle bullshit because it takes it. good not picked up something that wasn't mind? Mister leto sitting on the front foot soldiers moment of put the goddamn thing down. Or you cutting school. What are you guys doing over here? Even enough know you're supposed in school, so there was always is my mom. So what are you doing over there? It I'm gone well. Isn't there in right away in opening the kind like god you seal, training man, you start lie cheat he'll do what you can do to get through this training, but don't get caught Oliver and she valued don't get caught as MR leader and miss martinez, MR randy's, you know don't get caught. Knowing you got cut mamma. You know that little bird told me
Some of my corner has this little bird little bird called a rat. It was all good, but that was that neighborhood of caring people that really care about you. But what's going on now because you're chickens or not because you spanish, not because you quite because This is your neighbor. This is where you belong. This was my in and it is in an addendum Thing it's a belonging thing that you know their invested in in you and end the deal was all of us are going to go to school, were all makin a cut school that there was. Black guy and we had to give up our languages of us- were spanish. Those who expense in school. really go to school, Well, this husk opening been in junior height was it was the same thing. I go to junior high this kind Crispin right, the bad ass kid in school, the ninth greater and I'm seventh grade little bit of disquiet. So following a mother
It would have been a bit you up society. Couldn't get beat up it's a bit of a kid that very much. If so, then, but then what happens inside right that heart that that thing that comes in, because this isn't right. So I went up to so. The Ghana, hey, look man. as members fight now, because I'm gonna do that again. You're cool. You go inside. I was crying because I beat up a guy that I didn't in all new york. So then I understood a bully vanished, What they're gonna make me do if I don't make a choice right, so I got you Go to the bathroom next, most guy named nick I named chuck and is gaining rich and wants to their last names, cause they're all dead, but I don't really like those guys anyway. Simon taken leak in the guy comes in
say: what are you doing? It and I look up mrs o seventh grade right and it's innocence rate the innocence and I saw the pursuer yes, my uncle s, another way ass. He who you guys beat the shit out you're. Like cut my heart, I'm so little or so little as you, but like this as like for for our smile, are smaller than her literature of the herbie ground or viewer out. That's why he and I are we're we're good buddies. You know, because we're both little guys because they're little guys and the teams for sure and then the little guys and teams in big big little guys like kirby, who are also big guy. You know there are other ones that are you know they're, like you guys. was shot down. I was just thinking the guy's hundred and twenty pounds you know curing mighty, the european up in them a club and when I was working with the with the proves and work, the vietnamese seals. I carried the an m sixty.
Eight hundred rounds, one when heavy on the border so and so So what happened to serve you fight these guys? What are they? What happened? This guy bisbee Bruce Mcdowell, and use from hawaii and steps in and it goes what's goin on here and I'm gone those guys It'd beat me up. He goes. Oh he's missing, hey guys, you're way too big for him, but that little nexis he looked at me is really coisas. If I stay here, you want to fight the little guy. and I'm already have shake admit. I got tears in my eyes, I'm like I'm alone and you're in seventh grade, I'm in seventh grade I'm alone and all the from gas street. We came to altogether. We didn't realize that the classes and was happening- classes embraces right with the classicism took all of us poor people together right demagoguery.
white or whatever. That was the color street sincerely weedy were not too were already men. We didn't know that they called our neighbourhood, and so yeah uses more well. Okay, so hidden with that movement. High crush, come around a little bit and put them in the journal, and next thing you know I went outside where he was working man. It was high right. I love the word high order when women, the teams, man cosette, means your heart, Order is a higher detonation miller was in it. I took you must put his head, the toilet, and I sat on his back and served flushing and that was screaming. You'd like and when you, when you're in the cold water, that whole thing to you know just keeping your shit together. I love screaming nixing and picked up out of the off this guy. Bruce Mcdevitt takes me over six mi Nicole.
Where is breathe, and I'm like really those guys get the hell out here and I'm? Oh. So he says, as his calm come down, I read that I'm breathing. He says a Sir John Russell Russell. My brother Toby Russell movement. He went in the navy in them alone. He said, lack, wait a minute. When missus, you ever think about wrestling with wrestling team here. So no Will a new new be ruslan guys your size not begun little guys size jean come up, maybe right so that it and it was the beginning of another evolution right. So I went to Russell but I found out, I was rustling- addresses for all the wrong reason hazardous linked to learn how to fight wrestler now to protect myself rustling so that even after the bully came, I didn't have to bow down to him that I didn't have to serve anybody. Does he
it's. Like actually good reasons for me to Russell. I thought you said. Those are the wrong reasons I dunno. As far as richard, I tell kids to wrestle all the time. You're gonna be able to take care of yourself to get good shape. Like there's a reason. Those are good reasons why I wasn't happy doing it doing to me. God there are kids that are happy. They love the sport, as a two Timesthey champion took fort one as a sophomore derived everyone. Run around while the stadium and everybody side- five in me, I'm like, there's one down next year's the next year in every sense of gun after Russell monk, kick to show everybody until they know on there it in so that's the truth to the two things right, ego and heart, and you what you want, right. What do I do motto a lot of us women. The teams. Out of the ego thing those gets through the swimmers another canister. They were successful cases the guys were the same as them and they happen have a little bit more talent. So they win.
Is at heart Your wrestler and you got an you, get your ass be every day like I had so much respect for the kids, it weren't as good as I was, but we showed up for practice for me every day and I'd and I'd make him hurt and make them cry because easter I was getting my stuff right. My coach was a unity guy right to what was his Harold s from brenner. He hopes de the museum in in, for yours. So was a world war two guy or cooloosa, occur in the gap. of korean vietnam right, russia campbell who wrote the book crowd was risk. Camels called us. You'll team was his instruct here, you swim either he had a walk in the bottom of the pool. Cherry hucks. Will we learn? That is with that. Other thing about the teams. A lot of these guys didn't I didn't swim. Well, they swam long but didn't swim. Well, there are other guys that could mount as number one swim pair without fins,
advance on amendment number ten and was gas with big big legs here should they kicked up their number one amount to freeze in the water, but you get see, figure out about wrestling, ended was it a wrestling team in seventh grade? give a well yeah, so you immediately or very soon after you do you started. Actually wrestling yeah stacks sexy wrestling. Now you start to learn and you talk to it really well. I was here, did you ever think of my brother There is always that that thing you know and where I think the thing I want to able to protect myself on to kick people's asses yeah and it was a little bit more ego driven. may survival thriving business. They may be just protection of of like all. Like you said not, about half the bow down to people read so. Here's your brother had joined the navy, and what year did he joined the navy in two to six another
Recency he was on boulder high wrestling team that I eventually went to, but he was kicking the shit out of the doctor's son, so the city hurt murmur and and what they wouldn't. Let him resolved to enlighten wrestles butler my brother, women. The navy had no heart murmur, my my There was a comment briefly: stop what we hear were always building by early in vietnam he was, he was workin metaphysics couple seal team. You guys here and there at the same time we're both vietnam same time frame, six, nine and no he was sixty seven sixty eight and in part of sixty nine I miss it new chicken. All these guys out. You know the helicopter bring him in. He said I start looking at us. I can tell him they all looked like great. This is limited, what the hell am I doing? Looking at these, my brother's, like this he's, he's a curb. Your hero he's a little guy. All of these guys You know the guys he cause. He wasn't just the guys wound up with the arc. She actually did the extrication right, so they just they flew him out. So he was, women in it and got him
So did you at what point did you start thinking about joining the navy well My brother went in the navy, and so here I am one I graduated when I, when I came back from vietnam had been back, but ten years thought I hurled aspirin circle, I'm up aid. You membrane ass, a hundred rebound state gently and ninety five hundred three bounds. When I went the teams are win by one twelve pounds, a little. That's crazy there are still two guys littler. Do me the waller wonder brothers, their therein team to somewhat get like that, and mike while she wrote a book mice whilst is spot, might like me, but he's it he's about like I am now when you went to on my way more than I did. Then Europe, One hundred and twelve pounds in buds yeah, that's freaking, crazy. I was one hundred and twenty pounds one.
Burn. It rained vietnam, after those, the water and all its current level your turn to keep up with everybody, but I was so on the water, As I drink water, there's, sweat and stuff, you might need any water that is need. Water and wrestlers, don't need water in those days we you know we drink, we didn't drink any water and we took salt tablets right before practice. the kill you so so I had a triangular triangular. What about inside sit there and we'd be operating as being more and they were all out rank me so the water to drink some account the swells one, two three bucks, five bucks You knows I'd make money, withdraw then, ro money from them, because I didn't have EU money, one we're a pencil you again no sir, You get to high school is each plenty of sports, besides cross country,
to your good runner. I was a good runner. I was too late to play football on a lightweight football team, but when we played in the greenfield mean just no pads, no nothing, I was the fastest runners cannot hit you hard. I almost not myself, so he didn't want, can only corner of ghana. One km passed me and it in and we would have, we would play football football is eventually turn into a fight. You can fight somebody right and that they would meet. Much as I was a good wrestler butter, Are you a good grades? How struggling with my great I didn't stand, have mess. Why, when my kids, when the grown up, I says what? How do you teach me a fun, I'm more of a more of a hands on learn a right of visual learner. Concepts that it would, in my mind, had begun a heart found that now when I want You training Should I mean everything I need to know the division,
wage, a madman all that was gonna struggling with that right, but I got it because I was the body ring crisis, biceps heart, nor that that was a dog that right. if the demolition drank mark journey through mud, one bangalore, torpedo, agent, vx rate of fire as this, and that I'm going on the shooter took the first test, already gone through already gone through hell week already went through Di phase already went to everything hell week was a trip but I learned that, because the road crawford ok saw em sit nerd, struggling senior class smugglers. Crowded. Eight. We resemble crew in Hell. We hit, am you a story about hell week that I did that? I didn't know that I did, but he remembered that I didn't. He was my xo when I checked and the team will really love him for going on combat. Even given him that name cadet. I change out of the guy's name from John to Jonah. He still goes by Jonah, but yea. I sit
what's going on ass, a man in a sad, Two guys died out there before it has sent for many in my training class right, so These guys are drowned. Get out. I wanna get jobs going here, girl comical. so yes, what's going on is is a crime as adamant they're going to drop me? That's why, like that the demolition stairs so he came over just peace papers, is okay right a man with an notices overexposed with wonder a blanket with a flashlight mark, one thirty, three man, one one thirty three months to bangalore torpedo, hp, all the demolitions that we were going to be tested on a wrote them every night for a week every night on a piece of paper. So that's what that's where it's all about. I said okay and in what they were used for.
alright. So I go take my test. Let's go, you guys got one hour to get your test done and I grab them a piece of paper and start writing it out and structure combined spinoza you get an hour, so I know you've got an hour channel just looking at the fucking. Any book takes off and I got it done so then what I could do is I could take that paper. I could look at it see the question read the question. Look at the answers! Answers right. There. For me to get it. You know, and no one and went to college when it more this another this later, but I didn't The up a graduate student know what the three point: nine five. You don't want to be a teacher rate, but there's reasons I wasn't a teacher been so understood. That was my way of learning but it took two high school. You are doing great, no, no, but you
graduate what you're to graduate highschool sixty six sixty five and then I went in eighteen sixty six, what you do in the end, It was in between time, in between time, I had a wrestling scholarship to university of northern colorado. Okay, so well, actually northeastern junior. I was wrestling right, went home on break walked in in this bar in one of the wrestlers that was one of my heroes. Name was johnny mans in eras, from lafayette, he was just which went to junior college was a tough guy, so. Go back to her old right. Yes, it is a duty to you as a union. Judges is, did you ever going to table Today's the DA ass you gonna, do when we were in the wrestling room. You know like when you wrestle wrestling you all just laying around. I said no, he said I asked you, what are you going to do when you go get out a call at high school? And you said wagon going
the navy and then I ask do coaches me. What makes you think your man enough to be a frogman, and I told him coach? If your man enough to to be a frog, I no longer enough to be a frog there. It is one of those things just one of those things and so on. so sir, you said you were home on break from the wrestling scholarship yeah, and you said she went to a bar or toolbar call grandma's bar and the reality of telling them of where you go around going to grandma's l thought we were going to mister leaders, go into a bar sneaking in seventeen years old, but I was in college right now as a freshman. walked in, and I see my buddy Ronnie miss Here's hey man. Are you do in his sleep from lafayette, with these two goat restless from those for love? Yet we go to border we'd rustic his role in three different leagues and we prepare ourselves for the state term.
Iraq has rolled and that's when we really knew that we were state champions, because we could whip those guys and they were state champions winning into a census of the real champ kilo and so yeah. It was as how you doing man, he says, start crying this week. What's up man, your cake, I killed an umbrella, it's what they killed, Johnny and here's the big red one man, small arms, you know in a grab it was the first time that a law, somebody from that from my family from you know you talk about family. Is this big and from from those who love yet let dinners and hugged him who he cried and there we sat down and limit the earth again He soon he was telling stories about his brother and we were all laughing crying and everything. So then I went after christmas break I went back to
and those russen real well on it doing real well and when I went it was just like I had till the coaches that I'm not coming back. So I said I care, if you think about I was raised when President Kennedy got assassinated right as not what your country can do. for you, but what you can do for your country. I always felt that my brother was serving in the military. My uncles were were in world war, two right and uncles that were in korea and we all served in the military. And so that was what am I doing here, wrestling which wasn't real trying to get laid my friends or die,
so. I said I'd join the navy, but there was the other side of that. My brother had gone around the world don't go. I won't go around the world before, because I'd taken the I'd taken, the test, unity you're in in in bootcamp that I passed on that, but I wanted it the party? How will I get stuck on a ship in long beach? That's right! That's where I got that right, seventeen, eighteen years old and so you get to boot camp so get to boot camp. And you so you had. The plans have gone into unity. I had the thought It's about a continuity to yeah. I wanted to be a frogmen this because my rest and goat, because talking cool shit, man blonde stuff up your drop. In pick up and John, now aeroplanes. In view of all that, That's an end moving. I like best of all of it, man you get to where aviator shades work out.
son get worse from insurance, chicks, dig sancho. I could do that. I used to say we are used to be if five year old man didn't put a shirt on at work, unless it was like inspection date, red was never why you do her shorts, that's it, but a pair of shorts jungle boots living the dream and we had a balloon goldman: the original blue and gold gadget. When the gold's off of duty, then it's amd were less uniform, but we would wear whatever we wanted. Were you know so you so you the screening tests to go to buds, yeah and boot camp that took the test in That was the only guy out in the whole company that passed one other guy went with me, but he had false teeth of about drown. He didn't make it so so then so then, when I really decided to do it to those on the ship man I got tired of esa machinist make Indeed, we did our sea
the trials and all that stuff in the hole and everything like that. But even then I was doing chin ups on the steam deals and I was doing push ups. I'd I'd go workout by myself. Why are you doing that stuff part of whose the wrestling think part of it is right? It's always their hats. That's a part of your brother hanging, you off over the door. When you are foreigners who possible. There is further that india is that you know and an end, if you think about it, when you're doing a step. That is the jury, revealing yourself to yourself that that little boy you? always in when I'm doing that. Even now, what worked out over over the fib base, I can I can I I feel the young boy. I filled the little boy coming up you'll that that spirit of peace that I have that is young, then that is strong. If you will,
objective! Sure I gotta live near replacement. My ankle ligament that its and so yeah was. It was. I was looking at the end of their ship in your come these guys women, biogas, I'm sitting on their ships in with them. Where was that ship stationed, while station in long beach? Ok, we regulate trials and we pulled in san diego sore, I'm thirty six, not over by the bay when guys used to do the training in the bay and I'm sitting looking out there and stinky and everything we had hoped the boredom and blow the tubes were all blackened, and I looked in here- come these. as women by god another led into a keg do or those guys. You know those utility guys on Michael's heritage I put in for my xo. Let me go because too little or you're too little you'll never make it god I hated. I hinted that sabotaging beliefs in the time. I was a kid you're too small right, you're too, dark.
You wanna rustling in high school. My russen codes took a team to Japan as the two timesthey chant they didn't. Me organic your silver right- and I am- I swore why what's the deal well, guilder, You don't look like what the japanese think americans look like. I'm like. I do understand rate. What So the sabotaging belief like that re is ego or what is it, but it is something indices not gonna. Make me beat up somebody, you knock and make me do those things, because that little boy It's in there knows who he is. is ravine reveal, is being revealed that was part of that pain of hearing. That was revealing. Rake suffering it. These guys do then an edge coats. It mean the excellence. said you do little whatever next thing you know there M over the dreamy rat, I added I do this. They took as this is one
good unto do chamber tests. So okay did that in long beach did the pity again, the run the swim and all that stuff. And then we want you to go down to have tugboat and others in a diver down a class, a diver. Size will go down there, there's a chief knows or chiefs the diver, she's right the heart had only you, don't you Yes, I don't know you told me to come down. I wanna go nudity come on over surround saw the put that the biggest boots right, vigo, heavy boots and a folded. All that dumb was it one dives over five zero. Wherever they call it an ape. put the helmet. I mean I've seen it I go over to go to let her go down. He says and just walk around down there, there's some meals over by some rock just kind of make yourself at home and we'll talk to you check out a total disaster,
can dive ever ever ever been underwater. I didn't do anything so I go down is like how you doing now now, so I'm doing fine. This is everything good. Sudan will use water company on my left leg. You know why don't worry about. It says what welcoming listening So let us know goes in you rightly so low with them still walking around? He was fifteen minutes right to mock and because my left think I'm a rank really get them going, hey, you know, there's so much this this suit to weaken Ok, we know annoy, but let us not the watergate subdue chess. I didn't do anything, pressure right. The pressure and homeless not gonna, go any Deborah What, as you know, the waters up my neck nuthin Nobody dogs was a the water, up to my neck. Maybe you guys might think about pull me up. Nothing. So then it was like. I want to die
So I went over to some rocks. I laid back on the rocks I reach back. That will, if I can grab the ropes, if I can grab the hose I'll pull myself up, but they had it tended so there's no way I could I could reach it. So in my mind, he'll mary le grace loser the I'm gonna die and then the next thing is the squire I didn't. I didn't say it out loud inch pulled me now you pass kid. So three days later and then they had already had my quarters in a shop in the area. So the arena. Look at guys like a go. Look you guys like jack o. I'm going the same question that quite tough work. I doing here right this little guy, on the one hand round or nice, another guy, letting old, Gregg league our shared objective in the us, hey man, I've known as too little jack you where you dramas, opium, fresno, reserve, galler out. I guess you speak spanish. Is it no?
me, neither were like you know, but only two, and that was in forty one right, and so we you're, a hundred and twelve pounds. That's It gimme the advantage hundred twenty four, if even one twenty, because I'm just so much physical stuff, have to do with like carrying logs carrying boats like yeah, that's so people would sit there and say like I was under the boat for awhile and then What are you two little guys me and gregory dollar going to see or in front right, and then they got to medium sized guys and two together. So our boat was like this, so going up, mount suribachi was cool because level, but when you come down the other side out the first three times, it was good because we we'd cracked. And then we really gotta run fast me. We just sprinting downhill in order for us to make it in a So this isn't what your introduction of like or daddy you d t trade. How do you ask that nearly eighty are a unique to deteriorate. What was your under
action. One offers gotten Aren't you got there first, there is everybody, just gonna wandered around. You know like this in forty one right in forty one. class. Forty one. Last forty one initial measure, something with you that was really painful for me and forty one and so on, there is another little guy who's, big mouth man, and then there's another guy black cat, beautiful city ongoing Jesus. Emily man and there was another little guy, melton aka. He graduate isa is a and unknown Already reese, I her to him he's another little guy in so because low ma,
let me now little guy mafia, they were little guys, but they only my bike and gas. Fifty impact it is, it was, I didn't have any focus theirs, and just along for the ride, doing whatever they were gonna do and so on. Who is like There was no like this prep stuff, it was like we got there for one week, woody kind of got to know each other. The second week were runnin where inquiry class were in training we're doing all that physical think it necessary for how we create during her way it was, last day of the week before you secures a friday afternoon this saturday, this cure. They secured on saturday when how weak is over yet mean yeah? It's it's been friday and it's been Saturday, depending on whether why era, one,
friday and then that friday night they do a paddle, and then they secure sunday that we're doing a swim. So this is in how weak this is in hawaii. Ok, we're doing a swim and down and back down and bag. no and when I got me, I'm greg really got out. We got these guys are getting out of the waters alright, so we glad to, It was called. We get all the water when we get all the water virtue, fallon! So look at you, if different quitters over here and unlike what undine quick since you're out of the water inches yeah, I should get back in the water by that time. My hours cramped up there were like about sixty guys got at me. Almost almost the whole class got out then so I shall write in case you get in the water and away I couldn't. I didn't know that I got back in the water that I would have felt war. I didn't know that
so I went with everybody else so that night there was Saturday night. I could see him coming around for the last paddle and I looked out the back window and I just start crying. I sat in quit, so I went back to the instructor checking. There was no bell. It was on the door. Espinoza reported in one speak to chief chief Allen and So, when you I'm plaza, said chief, I didn't quick ass. I got out with everybody, but I didn't quit, see you fucking great ass. I didn't quit. So I went back and see you can't get back, and I said I gotta get back in we're going. Tell you this. He says, there's only one way that you may have a chance since you gotta go talk to the captain. myers, commend all amphibious right if the whole command
and talk to him. Maybe you might have a chance. Is by doubt it so what a fun day of Hell week was this. It was the last day of hell week, we'd already gone through hell week very gone through. All the roman round and all that single dawn with five days of hell week we were in, You were in the sixth day heroic, so it's it's pretty much over it's pretty much over. It was the last evolution, it was the swim and then we get in boats and then we paddle right. It was late as late in the afternoon by about five or six o'clock at night, or Just you know like out here starts, starts the sun Can you so you you guys finish the swim vote this guy's a finish, the swim, those guys with me that I was with. We were out with the ball quitters right, I couldn't I sit. I did quit in here right. So when it She fell on her side and quit. Slavs roses get the forgot. Her son went back to the barracks
I was broken man because I wanted me a frog, the next. There was. There was saturday morning, Sunday came and all the guys and so barely walkin a nuisance? looking at me. You know I'm looking to terminal and I'm sure they were soon for can quitter in our agenda. I don't really want to say that word, but that so that next year, promo dress blues man I go to cigarettes. He asked me where you goin ceylon, get back into drain, saw when got breakfast went over to the light, Knock on the door, nor will we go in and out These other guess who I will go with you right, but twenty guys. go with me, credit northeastward, twenty guys go with me. As from your class. Three guys had made it known that it had quit
and all the glitters right, all the all the guys at it that made it to that pizza hut hell week and there were even some guys in forty one that quit after a whole week forget it. See. People use just a trainee men. the real world ops. So people talk about you're going to frogman and all yama might did hell. We can all that bullshit, but you, but then you should do relapse. That's that's what they don't that's what they tell you about that's what you don't see, that's what the hero, bullshit is bullshit, but when you get out, Roger Hayden. Does he trip with duty? Teague is shot, gets bron start from their. Then he goes a seal team and they legitimacy new guy.
exotic cars will ever heal those sons of bitches seals these days, because I'm a utility guy that I didn't do anything or any law roger so either the sense that, as a big balls, the call rajai the new yeah. He was a new guy. While he was a new guy. I'll. Tell you something more about that later on, so. I mean they're cap and watch it sort of Twenty guys that came with you did they also want to get back into training. Yes, so they are when night skipper works in weight and told him what now what we wanted. He goes back up the one day for five days. He never talk to us, never acknowledges nothing. So from twenty to thirty guys he was a fucking ain't. Doing this, thereby right at the end of this ended that weak. There were six of us.
me schoenberg, mouth, steel, garcia and Magee, so the mixed with that friday. He had just come in, we came in so what do you want? I said I looked. I looked at the guys, you know alexander says I didn't quit sorry, but what about you guys- and they just look news like attempt quitting right six of us says, will we wanted to get back in the next class, get an m office suite le weekend, so the next week I show up as the guys who will be doing sbs him come back, so we go back monday. He comes Thus the whole day we sit there. He works and walks out walks and leaves many comes in the evening. she's, ok, sir I'll see friday document bc friday, so that was another week we came in there
ready. He said I talked to instructors. I told him we were. I asked about what went down and are willing to give you a chance, but I have a condition: warlike, ok, This is one of you quit or get hurt for any reason. You're all gone. I looked at my guys, look guys important. If you don't want to do this, don't do it because I gotta do it right, I don't want. I had a hard time being a loser, a hard time I didn't, engage with it too. Even when I was getting beat up, the inside warriors work and gone now, you're going to figure it out, you're, going to unity, cowardice and
I wanted the chest to push it all away. I know wherein we all agreed took the first ticket, forty two First, they have forty dude, our comes out as nurses, garcia, shall ambergris steel, Magee and more Furthermore, he was wont to get one out of our classic got killed. Saint clair torpedo me. The six of us to us became seals were drafted into seal team. We didn't go unity like you stepped good, have training or an m. You go do towards unity in the volunteer for seal right. So did you go Did you re class up? Did you start with a brand new class? Yes, even all the way back through first phase again that our role over and here they are worth we're up there in front- were frightened center. They said about face face in the class. The mother, fuckers are quitters, don't walk to em, don't talk to him to be around them, don't hang with them, because Two they are
so we can look at the allocation. Forty two right, and so put us in the same boat crew and it was miserable man I mean it was read me and Garcia were the two little guys in French Sheller and and steel were a little bit, but little bit higher and mcgee and moe were taller. So our boat was pretty. It was lot better than like did his gun like this, and they put they put it on his I look at some of the guys like now in my class is then he said, look over us and see what happened to us. Like was vain. Couldn't you know and. So then we get rid of go. Do how weak! So am I my guys and by the way, a takes like months and months and months to recover from hell, weak
so you'd been through hell week, all the way until the last day, yeah and then just went right back into a freaky class. Then it was like about like there's been about three weeks or something like that, and it was the next class as we still have blisters on their ass. Unless you're you know in our hands, we're we're still jacked up so so we're religion that each of us is ok, it will move which can be painful, but what they did is your officers pick people in their classes? That's how I got wanted. We got it right. Miss kirkland pick me crowded courtney in Galina basalt. What for like there our group, the baku, your six of us mere percent were too little guys and then Courtney, crawford riddle, bigger and then mr kirkland and oh, I forgot
the guy was they do so by height, now, take all the smaller guys together they take all the tall guys put him together. Hans are pretty much together. Six six of us in the boat crew, not seven and we were in a number one crew. We won, we won this shit and america was crowded, tells the story of when a because we did all those harassment thing too. Well, I did want her to run on my knees like this and that geyser chief allen comes out there. Instead, friend of me not going to surround and and are you guys help me so As trainees right info he too a lot of guys think outside the box there's theirs. Not against and forty two, but we are the ones that challenged our instructors. Oliver sings ending era. One little two little three little indians, bang, bang, bang you have an integral part. Do you know, sticks and sell it on the swimmer line rate reorder a little swim alone, because all I need is one of you to quit. So I'm way at the back end
have you all over her. Have me I love you. You sons of bitches I'll be out there all night and we were because who saw the tigers in it. Violence in their traceability. Kalganov man, jack, was one guy was going on as wolf man jack No one soul, music, and then there is the lady name, sister, Margaret black. Ladies, you bet you problems. Do of pain in your heart. If you don't know what you're doing a new life sister, Margaret collaret, three five five three body five and whose eye You sister margaret our guys, were fighting for fighting back Greater were fighting back for that humanity. There were fighting back to reveal That's why forty two pretty tight class in big you know because The major off at the nature of that class was set like that and when we were to training. Those guys help me get through this evolution to fallen losses, glasses, cravat,
tat said we would have looked for his glasses and new went novel. I gotta know we're killer way, called killer whale right and I stood up in defended and cinema stomped on em. I picked him up. I know here you go. He lived only goes straight as well, but one goes cool walks off covered. His part velvety was asked what guy he's gonna kill is, but that's what what they want your sturges. Aren't you the kill you and make you they want they want. Now. I see This totally different, not break you down. To make you lot. That's your love, seals right when they break it ass. We can multi right back. I've seen it now. They were breakin me down so that little kid, the little warriors bernajoux near that the young kid they wants to. That is peeled off fray through the heard, through the fear, through the mistreatment.
All that is pulled off. I'm never going to be the same as other power. You, you, you become a success, but then little boy wanna get back there because that's a whole incomplete person that I was so in a strip off the bull shit right without the socialization that comes and through this eighty or the socialist nation that happens in your own family. The poor thing you do, your kids I mean each other or brothers fighting each other or in your neighborhood, Bobby savannas you're, not gonna, pick on him because he's back, he looked like a decent and he was a target of reach her. We had through racism classes and everything is how's. He doing get power to fight back. Are you and take somebody that the disease in a community? If you would you take, Our family, our community, are seal committee or family community. We all thought back So that's why there were so many of us in this work, even though later on in our lives, we do things they caused between me and you as a teammate.
The bottom line. The one thing that we did have was that station ship of understanding that we're being revealed not created, we're being revealed that yeah well In order for me to do this, in order for me to be my notes, you don't ever elects, but the old nothing's real seals got them know. I just got a timex, not the real seal category anymore. Maybe vietnam we'd sit and we'd pull the covers off or get issued guys who got issued. Those tudor rolex's, you see, that's yeah. I got some kind of bonafide, with the complaint department issue. I got that's how we knew who we were matter of fact. I'll. Tell you the story about this thing, but but you know Why are we say that when people ask about, you know buds which was bought from you deteriorate for you, but they don't. Do anything and then I'll teach you mental toughness. You just the p I don't. Have it go away right,
its sorting itself out a new and in it, and and you're the beautiful thing about tos when you're both doing that and you and I are in the mud and we're crying. Where does it go like this look elegant garcia, go ok to in a motor car that right. apparently ass or we can do this- you know in jean valjean, you said especially in the race peace with that about who I am as as a human being right. The great spirit that I am the light. That's in me that that that moves forward right, mean gradually garcia cause. You got ruled the forty one right, where's milk in each of the class shit man we're we're screwed, you yeah, I know Did you ever know mackintosh so makin delicacy somebody's gonna walk in it. Now you like that, he comes back and then he goes. Hey you guys, fortytwo, oh yeah, he was all so am I
This was, and I glad glad to see you guys, mrs because we likewise, that is where we go to stick together. a third reading me we get a stick together here. Because we're minorities has hit I said, as it's me and weena women. Nor is it. Would you a white guy because these issues, election do know much nouns magda I answer because he's from like thereby learned Saint Thomas, we evolve so easy journeys is now. Caesar under a white guy. I suggest you, your white Norma uses off from saint thomas xvii eyes. It is so good really goes what's the view I his is a virgin islands, some wouldn't worth fresnel, look around in the desert. You mean there's regions on the islands anymore. Let no man is, it is named after red beard or black beard. The pirate is is the days of the caribbean. Is rome, roman love, stern,
ireland's that's run from my mama's You're still you're still you're still a white guy. No, he says I'm black for my mommy says, and I'm dutch from my papa as is but a singer to your your white guy. He goes know and it fixes foot like this. He stomps and he goes no other, so men built, I hope No man I D got hit is no no, no, so the reverse. The trend. Chief Alan gets up there s noise, garcia, front and centre right. six of us right now. Therefore, try to be shallow. We tried to sit in silence, which I just shit. You don't want to be. You don't want a profile yourself. You know her sometimes you are profile. This is the way it is right, We are standing that it is that it exists right, so he yells at us front and center, who you are. She found farmer hospitals. Reporters are the chief
Hu Jia, ermine garcia report is our chief are you guys is looking out as it is when I use the word andrei espionage You seen these big black and beauty like you, your jungles those using ends around here. There's gotta be drinking place, advocates a legacy, serbia's enough good visa, because that's what you do the whole training is that think about it, poultry museum and instructors in event with you, this something that they one out of you, their guiding you or they want to provoke you, anger or whenever that stuff and is and I learned is always better to cry when you're in pain than that to be in anger, because there is of anger. hard to write, saw a sin, Notable aside, I don't see any elsie. His around garcia no tv, I don't see any value.
He says raw from now on for the rest of this class, when I want and in front and center to when I want it in you to come front and center. I do understand that so I'm going for a chief just get on with the real revolution in trunks and our boots right a sitter. I think magazines, maggie dash is we're all out the right you we don't have sent any. where's were out there and he goes. I said the guy over on the far left. He goes far that gets you guys, macintosh front and center, so thus it doesn't run out there like we do regular military said Mcintosh. Maggot does lobes out, like a like a gazelle jumps out front of the
erin market. Does reporter doored chief, because makin tat are you in No, she fell in number, so she looks at him. He goes turn around, so it didn't about face. Looks at the back of this is turned sideways turned sideways. there's always against each other. So really looked articles. Yeah Mcintyre ceases. I think you are an end. Is a matter of fact you, the earliest mother, then I've ever seen in my life hid the ban. The two ends with your answer, so there we were, we would be in class we'd, be in class g fellas, hey, look all you and zip the bag really to get wet. We cut back. Recovery rate, we come back and sit in class. I so that's what he gave us
he gave it to us to say It's kind of like a letter that I wrote to a girl that I thought I was breaking up with you know about. Oh, I love you and de de de de and somebody says: oh and she didn't come back to me right. but they say oh or should give you beautiful gift. What beautiful give as we still broke up? Knowing the dealers You wrote how you can love somebody at you, you looking for that's what they did. They gave us stuff and put us in that pain so that we would reveal ourselves. So we get so well. No one day goes there. This is all you not answered. The may will be hit me I knew who I was right, guernsey measure we stand there and all the it goes gone and the two koreans and two to expand there in the water they're in the water right. So so that a couple times couple evolutions right,
finally yankee too comes out. These Green go because a p appear too. I know understand, I know, understand in non end, research, all we water, that's it you from now on you and then click. Ok, ok, I understand so then the two korean stood the whole class when and why or and mark Schellenberg who looked like how the duties get a little blue eyes. You know good teeth and actually later on and oliver luck broke his teeth, his head on a on a on swimming pool right than the waters deck nudity You ve comes up to him. No geometer. We achieve l I said I thought I said how you none ends, hit debate who yet you fell. I said all you know: onions hit the bay the shellenberger stood up, says chief elon. Today I am an ent. He literally goes
who works with the rest of the class. The resolute glasser going is gonna with his, though we told me tell me to say so, then that everybody knew and the koreans knew. But we didn't tell the two turks do. Turks are either way that we, finally, we told them, but here and there first did training like in forty one. Oliver comes right. He comes walking up, got his ball cap to hear scar under the blue slicker car after another In short, the big divers socks with is a shiny, cochrane boots. He comes woken up, an umbrella walks up. We all stand and nothing looks. It always works out. Cocky looks at all
says, as you can see, my slicker says big g little, all literally there's only one big g bingo big d and that's a creative, the universe and he's praetor view in me, but does not here, but I am so. For the next eighteen weeks? When I tell you to run, you will run when I tell you the drop you will drop. When I tell you this shit I'll, tell you what color he did an about face, popped up his umbrella and walked out. I was another one of those esben. Those in water The hell you doing here right. So those doctors are more more noise pitcher. You know in u s moi, but when he, when you know he's he's, told a couple, hilarious stories about classes, Moya is probably like.
spoke about two before me. We be thirty nine. With thirty seven his older guy have probably thirty seven mega, but anyway he did his stuff and none It does of course, story about me. With all aware. They lawsuit. the boat crew, some other, because they're trying to during hawaii, so they went out an obvious trend, attack him down fire where they are in a written. This thing rid themselves under their boat in the sand. they heard about last control the vehicle and they come around and everybody's often about you, know and pieces. so cookies, oliver distances yeah, we'll get you like that again issues and we're gonna run. Oh you again till We didn't know where they were at. You know, but there's a lot of there's a lot of that stuff. You know, but just to lose those two instructors, and so then, when we graduated alright, we went through the training
You know and we were in different boat crews and they did didn't. I assume all six guys all self made it like two of us when seating. We're drafted in the ceiling went I met you for the first time you tell me about, but one instructor saint you: can you change the temperature of the water? I was over what happened that tells them. A freezer. My ass here, one twenty pounds right, I got the big, I wasn't wasn't a homophobic thing. At all hours there put pigmented. I want some of it from sitting there crying oliver come up as moses, who you all are. What's the temperature of the ocean the temperature yours to tow storm all over and I'm crying. I got tears. Because and I'm glad I was wet because I'm off, what's a season. Another man right some guy He says: can you change the temperature, the ocean,
I think it was a piece of my wits. You blew bit, but I'm not I'm not wearing it would suit. So Oh and I don't want to be a smart ass rate, because this won't be, as these guys have said- oh yeah, I told you that struck this one. I went through training and I I bullshit you mean. If they wanted to hurt you, they could hurt you anytime. They wanted to write, that's the power. This is like society. There are some people that are here that are here. How do you want to function in it? You can be in been pain, but you're not gonna, give up, some pain in the ass another. Huge, mrs, and it is a matter which offend temperature daughter is. Does it as follows? No over Two days later, I'm freezing again can remind one as crime in those women. Gives going big me up says.
change the temperature. What's the temperature of the water Espinoza, it doesn't matter what the average temperature or water is all aware. He goes Espinosa. The temperature of the water is toasty warm So so then I understood right: I can't change temperature, the ocean and the thing about. The teams is the only yesterday right. Those Things in my life very powerful seem: the fire that hit me right, but that is peace. I'm telling you, Antonio, has been revealing the one. I did have, though, was I can't change attempt through the ocean, but I'm here. If I. I thought of being with my six guys right that not one this gave it up and then I can't give it up. I got it choosing to be here because any I can leave anytime
But he's telling me to stay here nobody's tell him to be whatever all the hurt and further change. I'm changing evolving and then It was like three choices, one I can quit. The second is, I can be heard in misery. or I embrace it and say this is the cost us it would cost and in order for me to be where I want to be, there is going to be the point where and I think guys get it after they ve graduated and go into her down engine of the combat area, Amanda to do this. Rather die than quit. That is part of the cost. and that's what I love about my brothers. When I look at him man we come to all that's point ray.
And we go out into our world. We understand that we bring that into ourselves and then those gets it have all these behaviors the racism, sexism, the hetero. What well that bullshit? All those really weird behaviors at once. why, in their life, they were clean and a child. There were four real then, after that they go back and pick this shit a ring it back because it makes feel comfortable for they were. They don't want living that that the spirit of being free of being who you are because it makes you accountable to everything that happens. Do. Good or bad psychological bullshit gonna get on. fire department. I was dead become inhuman, remember getting vietnam and that you be so remember, you're, a human being was most last that and I received a jar of years right. Was it moment I don't know who dinner whatever, but my officers being leaders came open,
both and gamble man, he was an empty, this, the guy who became ensign retard axes. Ten commander, I think you should see this shit we're like what what is it you know, since we don't do this. When again we're not gonna get rid of given this jar, we don't do this shit anyway. we kill he's gonna have a weapon or of collateral damage. Had people that have weapons we're gonna, do but we're not gonna do this can stuff afterwards. When it gets. It was one of the things with the pru program that was kind of weird cause. They kept body counts like that. You know that inhumanity thing that whole sir a bullshit universal law prove thing. You know that there are cowboy do you wanted, you know, and you know I think, when I was there,
A man's inhumanity, no man, you I'd hazard, with my buddy nitrate. We were workin for the company and doing stuff, and we took a break, went to Saigon to party hopped on helicopter took off I believe my cousin with with pru program as crazy, but party just saw this as always practicing my skills, my language skills, and I saw this little vietnamese guy. Looking at me, I'm looking at him. I said a lady comes over Anthony. What's your name authentic, you know. at beer, knew you drink beer, yeah if, on me, Sir John, yes or no media so soon swiss friends came? We said we drank liked him. We connected in you sometimes you don't even know somebody, but you you feel good with them right. we do therefore today's third day, I believe we left
Cause you strain learning. This has tried to learn english Vietnamese hugged each other. Kids. Later we take off. Noise was gonna shit on this. vietnamese they'll, norman american boom civilian clothes as they don't know who you are you know, but so bills. Like this looking around for we spent three days here. and when we took over this group, which was a green brig, reaches the programme, chasms, green brain and another guy. But when we flew in, he was flying out. Did a green, greyhound sleet wherein is aviator shades, and this guy is a black sergeant time. can remember his name, but he saw you just you just miss captain pacheco them like ah- and I said duff, what's his first name, he told me said from Oklahoma. California goes yeah. I said.
As my cousin bullshit assesses moms aurora on dead, dad's, Celestine, oh yeah, so here is my cousin. So when I got back country right, I saw as mrs you refer this, In the name mentioned, the caseworker worker mention the sergeant in the name of the city and ngos. Are you ask me this. I said you remember when you get relieved and hence lose some gets common in seville, ngos because yeah so is me and my mate for shit. You know then he asked missus what about the? the guy with the white scarf a. The german india messages shut, the shit out of us, you know booger using army tactics. We're using seal tactics in and how we would patrol and a warning orders they were there.
you're not doing festal one in order to end the brief up and then an going. Do we never left whenever it was like runaway wasn't like an hour goin an hour later. We we popped out right away because we knew about that. The internal leaks and so. we will we got back, we decided to do a quick opposite, go out work, so I got like guys we took off, then you would tell the rest. The group and we went out late Early in the morning got hit, we went and checked the bodies and as a kid with the white scarf and a kid with a white scarf was a kid. We drank with insight I took it men and I got you know I get emotional, I saw little noises you can hear me as Billy goes around looks and he goes man is that sir, I think his name is tran but yeah. He looks at me and goes
you know- and that's when I understood that warriors right- that the ideologies of countries, rail users, there we go fight these wars. We go do whatever that is, but I wrote it. I gotta brought it on my phone Right now, I'm kind while someone on the other side is doing the same thing. Do this thing, but were human. You know there is that there is a connection that we, as soldiers, are fighting these wars for other people's ideologies, but if they left us alone, we would best friends. So when I got the fire department guys you play no you'd. I remember you from you know you vision, you know all this, shit, I'm like did you ever killer we for my mother, you know like no, you know
there's a whole thing about how I fit into the fire department. But but I would tell those who have killed- have killed a better man than you and meaning it. because that guy and I would have been friends, we laughed, we drank, we smoke cigarettes and where we left, we we felt sad. That it wasn't gonna work and then and then you meet a man the small roma and non roma heartbroken and I told a story, my grandson, any he put it. can nepal, but he said, and his heart was crushed knows how is it that was nervous other than now and then getting connected, there's again
tick. Vietnamese guy appointments. We got jacked up. What time is it s be? Has this goal? We go communis since go we went out. We set up on If, on a river waiting, nothing happened to the world that could ever see, but him sitting beside me right and thinking. Okay, we're going to war. If it happens, we are together, didn't say, word. But the connection, the spiritual connection, the the blending of us as warriors, you can't you can't buy that shit. You can't create it, you can't form it it it. It exists in spiritual sense, let's go back to just a cup this part of your history to win you graduate above cause. You mentioned it, but you didn't go into too much detail about that. You want
a few guys. They got selected, go straight to seal team. she'll team, one without going to unity at the time, the normal person, your was guys ground, buds. They go to The tv onawandah demolition teams that you're deployments there Then they can volunteer to go over to seal team, which is gonna, be more land based still was for the water, but maybe more land based, but you went straight to strict yet Mr seal Timor right. Why do you think I was? log, cabin shovel act got cap, Manderson was the commander when we were selected here he lives in ignacio new mexico nor colorado and know where you get together. He'd say he says yes, nosy says I picked, you knew and she caskey an argument. He knows all the names right,
That is why we weren't getting we weren't getting the guys or voluntary from my unity, because shut up mean I think, even roger Hayden. That's where roger mean he he got shot at seven nudity in there and heavy goes by. Is it all get my ass shot of you doing nudity? I want to go into seal team and figure this shit out. I want to if we're going to afford you, the t guys are going to be run seal ops. I want to know what I need to know to do that, and so the whole switch up in operations from the water to the land, the guerrilla warfare rain. You need other water work explosive up to the burn line and then were from the hinterland in as for. We can go now. You guys she's gone. big o huge helicopters, taken no go hell, no man I'd rather be in the jungle. You know just end up and they were getting them.
And so what we did is he he had the edge Doctors start handsome. Fucking, guys that they think transition, and then they took the they took the volunteers. then they took the volunteers, unity, guys and it is really How'd, you know the way things work out, guys like from thirty, eight and thirty, nine or marian up with guys from forty two and forty once right So a lot of the guys in those classes like I like crawford right, you is part of the dirty. Doesn't right in his instructor was one of our arson. Turkey was very not right and then some the guys that were with him. Who were out of class thirty, thirty nine and the guy's operated with like high enriched the actual there from thirty eight thirty nine. I saw this whole group when you talk,
about only a hundred and fifty guys, I mean there Megan multiple shows utter made too, but I broke my inopportune worker right anna and about I did cry because, as in bubble hospital and felt like it felt like that, damn how we the guy's going around in the paddle. You know I'm gonna finish a. We cannot go on that's what I'm gonna do that's what I want to do and there are no doubts, and I think I think that if you had, the doubt- and I don't know how guys work now, if you have any you don't belong on, you know, take off, still goes on affordable. You don't want to do everything took off the maltese. If you don't know How was the little gold wings, but I remember too stalwart going through seal training, sealed Gatorade right we're out there in we lived ox cars there.
The two girls in the bar that place was lunar phase and creators and everybody was hot honour when they make them feel I queens. You know. Well, the desert boys didn't like that so one day like either the desert boys came down and there was a the council in the bar right or to stone his little guy. Like me, he's a career guys. He is korea guy, but also a writer army are near the army raider guys right, ranger, whatever no because there were the greenbrier guys, but there were also the rangers not sitting around my little verity. One of the guys are all laughing and everything, and he comes in there- god, dammit since you m efforts and he's the guy he's gay when we're standing going through training egos now there were two rows of corn here too rose. Here I want my m16 man over here. Ma am sixteen year magruin dears over.
there must donor man, any new us with your item. Sixteen I want your assigned. Is it not foot hits you got him scene. I want the This is, in my view, on em. Sixty one was she installers. I want some saying in a senior officer every once in a boom and then you granted dear I'll watch every fourth time your left foot it I want boom Jonas wrong? Yeah understand so serbia's ok, let's move, you know we're we're like em we're like I can remember this but really looking at the rate of fire and the intensity of right? So we train in this. Our group of what it felt like to be powerful powerful. Invincible right, and so they would grabbed the guys bt, they would various up into the seal cadre class and theirs is but vietnam seals or whatever
vietnam and my cousin found the book at annapolis. She went to annapolis and use here mrs sb and more the boat They were assigned doing instruction. That's how basic was meal because you won't get engaged to do it. if he wanted in, I think that was the beginning of transitioning, the! U d, t teams, I mean the kids are going through buds now in the sand, where we can save this because we want to just go seals rate. The Don t guys had already gone through job school were though was sore and they went to the seal cadre that hadn't done. That trip were airborne yet so we John school then we were in shape minutes. So we were out there doing the run around. We ran at least three or four guys into the dirt. You know they sit there as though they'd get your attention I do one for the army and I can do fifty of them at that time. Just google it
one for the army, one for the navy, one for the marines. Oh yes, my as give a couple more and I did I get all of them: forty, seven, forty five and then had the audacity owen, who yod yellow war, a war is urgent they didn't know who we were. I was what The thing is so cool about being a two minute know who we were we a matter of fact me and my partner were in when are we could read and talked anybody? I need time and we army guys. You know that airborne school airborne school. Yet we haven't talk to anybody and they assign guys that put us up into the barracks where we were at so are you as we you from his walk, just become come on. You guys talk and talk to each one of us. We just don't say anything in your return. Our head new relate. You know just plain that whatever that role is, but nobody to tell you it's just
happy news you sick. Everybody would pick up on the energy of everybody else. That's The thing is created in in the training class, You can see him. A group a kiss from teammate. When I went to a gulf turn him and I can see when they came in there I'll pick it up. energy of each other, all wearing shirts, if they got from Walmart one as a cat one as a bird went wonderful loves. You mean that whole there. So out of you, from that therein. Universities that make sense you could tell who frogman is beaten by the stuff that he doesn't where to conform, but he has confirmed he hadn't. You know it, but anyway, back to back two stone. The elder is you, sons of bitches are living on the reputation of dead men. All of money. You got out your pockets, leave it forum and I'll meet you madeira and then we just had a big hole on earth. Withdrew, wouldn, t
northern ireland. We build a fire and you sleep in these box cars with these springs in the budget. bed in there like a moment thing and we would. Furthermore, it is a deaf snake in there with you. But then I we operated all night long me was kind, like get almost like a two day off all night. The all night thing were no sleep, then you were gone. that you weren't you how weak you could operate like that, you can, you can do that and known, he never scolded, is, after their told us the only bitches live, a repetition that dead men made us hurt and since you know seals yet understood it, Not you not seals yet so, any seal cadre right. Those of us made it through and mars. Carcere magda, hey I'll, meet you at the trade winds trade. When bar that's, we all hang out right, sir. I so we we should short term and the night
the forum will read them next to the night before I'm sitting here and have me a bearded, lady comes up, sits beside me. She sits right beside me and I'm like You and in those events jeez, I'm like now says a thin Yes, I don't know what that is. Fuckin new guy well yeah. I guess I guess I got my X, ray mobile legs yeah, almost in new guy get my rolex line chief gospels. Why someone tell you something? I cannot drink you. I cannot fight you and I can now If you have a murmur gelatin, I'm gonna buy you a beer, he achieved the cheese like what
twenty years, I'm sneaking into the bar, and she says if any right, razor You mean you can have mine. I just got it but anyway, someone teresa, she's. A chief has three tours: vietnam, never been her never get anybody kill. Cereals a couple guys in I think about time- funk had gotten oligarchy and killed were stupid, shit like funk they had him hand tied nor gonna show these senators. How we do stuff when we capture people the boat broached, he went into the into the river funds for five days later in the way the water runs you so dark and in the current kill him right week we kill our own. four stupid shit or guys german on aid to millimeter mortar and kills guys my course. Anyone vietnam. With this he switched out with a guy that was
corpsman, it was marines. He switch out with him, so he could this other guy can get his pay right in. doc manders walking with another guy that goes off their work buying kills baltimore. A guy named then, who are you had like what you wrote? Everybody men he had his shit together right, not maynard com, that's how you lose gateway, but am I must stress that what she tell you, so she told me that you thank you. So don't get him kill. And if you don't want to do this job, if you don't know what you're gonna go in this, my wife right Sometimes I guess I, my understanding is some of the wise take on the personality of the officers wise start their little, a few of my my daughter's is The wife of an officer marine corps officer in. But she, let me know the human
he's right. This is a family me. She they have User family. This. What it means to her and I'm responsible I to make sure he doesn't get killed, and I have to learn that stuff, not For me, and I understood that that. sometimes in the tubes. If I don't let anybody downright isn't that are now? If I could do anything like, and then you let yourself telling me. I have mean I'm not sinless, you know, but I know that when a when I come back point where I do something I don't want to do and don't things that I should do the greatest The point is me because I dont have power or the or I chose to do whatever I did and so I looked at her and I went no ma'am why. If I don't know May I just graduated seal training over I'm good. Instead promise and took us are a cool. Do you know he
operator and everything, so I got that so next day, till makin does Yes, your major new aren't. I knows we get together in whose earlier, in the day it you never there was a trade bar when you went- was in the noise, It was right this with a little an orange avenue. from magma? Peace between danny MC pieces were of the ice cream places there. It was gone, but it has ring indoors. You walk in your work in lot of a lot of character and lots of who we worse. Not just the operational peace but interpersonal peace right, We work into this place. Swing indoors. We looked down. Nurses guy got china's mouth smoking a cigar, by the bathroom, and you weren't sure whether he was the bathroom had a
with plumbing or there was him, is eaten, boiled eggs and drinking beer and went to the head of his like her and he had a full growth Anna the guys and those guys on the team will know that it was tobacco right because he had a lot of tobacco right. So he looks down at us and mcintosh and garcia, I so today You guys you have energies. Already there was scarcely have already told you. I wasn't yeah, wiki says: that's all we need and the teams is more f and ends mexicans in ns. So I was like who yeah you know? so we just looked at each other, but the a piece about it. We already knew we were fell in already established in forest Oliver already established force. I don't know who. The cat is
but he's an operator, and he has every right to say what we want to see me because I'm done anything I say miss my first opportunity overdue. My trip knew my vietnam thing. what happened on your? You broke your leg first work up or you parachute. Nor will we like della revaluations oil, as always, is parachuting. Repelling was one of the other things you and I got to bellboy hospital is like out to do that, sure I was repelling how far away The deployment where you two weeks, two years ago and appointed what happened. So we did. What we were doing was doing a compass course right, How about you had these different at legs? We went by ourselves like about four minutes behind each other, so we would cover each other right. Not go in paris, we want signals, and so
at ten mile deal right. So I'm up on this rock and I'm looking thinking. Oh shit, I got another dunno, maybe a mile to go down this other rock him a blackface on and have all my stuff got my weapon in this hand, I got my accomplices and everything, and I'm looking in here comes the guy on one worse than hey, is how you doing good. Are you doin says, don't london, nice right today, like she's still do what you can get you, but don't get caught right. I said you happen to be going by that rock down there says I'm gone right by that rock? Is it how about a ride so sure? So I get ready to shift my heel, my hands over to a whip the reach up to grab me goes on ice. Is your new little novices I'll, just pull up our rights are put my foot That's the thing you learned is: don't let anybody else have control over your shit right, you just don't don't.
Do what you gotta do your answer, so he reaches down gaps. Hold me slings me up next thing. He falls sideways, so he lets loose my hand. So I take my hand- and I grab up like this and I grab hold the saddle- have a weapon here and I stick on this site. That horse takes off I know next thing I'm going next is like. Oh this thing in my leg I look at my feet. They're both above my heads, have my maps, You have a weapon here and when I hit is like I shit so scampers off, then he comes back. You ok I said no man, I don't think I am issue of his horse, any solely in guzzle bag and each cuts. My laces off looks my leg and I took my little thirty eight I had you, don't have a weapon, doc maynard was my corpsman write his when you swapped out he's the guy got killed, doc maynard comes down by time.
It goes by on a horse and says: what's going on, he says I think this guy's got a friend lillian. Sooner looks like a disulphide bill break is got Peter paulson. I know in any other stuff was a hundred soldier nanda, so. a system which go how you guys all this is all we're. Doctors were upon. The little I said answer this planet and nevertheless I turned out that guy, no sorry! go away says you have any drugs. so now we need any dogs get. He would give morphine with them with morphine. Shred knows how to do the anyone do that and so the dogs- hear it gives me a pint of peach brandy to drink. This got in a little jeep that he did that the dark kept me this kind of kept track of us by the time I got to balboa I was jacked up here, so they had away gimme a block, so them
opportune came because I was in the hospital. They all give me a kiss goodbye man ass in the sky. Alan took my my job. Did I was so nervous and so hurt and so pissed off. That he's got my job with my blog to and in that way to an hour. with me hush me out, and I were the point men and up to write in I wanted to go. Work so mean I had to stand down again and all these guys that I was with right. So then I had to do. Two months or so come about war hospital. I get my foot it like this seal team on at once, you find out who I was in case on, were come in. They were shot jacked up man, I'm sitting there watching them come in, the put this guy beside me. So machine is going in and gets mean people rejected, I saw war from that. I saw the the the damage
This machine goes off, stops light, so push the button started back up again. So happen about four times is like an middle of the night. It pushes button by myself by teams, gaunt and all court for the corpsman he does ensure. Finally, Does europe so anyone who needs. What's this, who went off I did it when his happiness in japan for four hours. See government takes off, then it comes back this guy. It was back about two days later he's a marine he's got a patch on his eyes, legs, jacked up and scott wounds. In here he looks at me, says you guys pushing the button. Oh yeah yeah, He said I was drowning says when, when the button would go, offices would start drowning.
You pushed abundance of that stuff out of my lungs, so he may begin good friends and has only for another, I went back and checked them out later on. He had like a flop leg and his eyes miss in it went. Back and saw me since I saw you do. I do great masses. Someone in similar terms, he already said really marine corps. Recruiting station writers can receive. Tubes is yeah, it says and check this out sb he had his pets of his. I ain't goes like this marine corps elements I desire, says I'll be receiving. Those guys is look me in the eye boy yeah, so here's a cool guy so yeah I miss, I miss my platoon and so then, what I'm there have seal team went on there and this guy comes work. You got a rolex bobcat, moluccas, cochrane, john boots and shit. I'm gone ass, a team guy says hey it the guidos with the cb, and this is that aspect at the hospital. I said, look
hey man soon, the teams there as a so my he goes. So what the fuck and walks out. Are you routes will be. You know me in europe the minimum to starve saw a bandied about another month there and then I I left right went back. Did the silting various okay as your back, her lacrosse, sixty nine go ticket and changed pitch into gear and of us are so go over there and look at the lawyers there like you're like this. You know like these spaces here, and there is a window at the end, and mine was at the end So I go there and I look there's when I go into by lawyers. Is that guy that tommy, so what the fuck? So
fuck by him. He just can looks at me. I dunno, if he wrecked it just can looked at me. I can look at him and I witness a name up there, so I grabbed it pulled it off and a two chicken and he goes there was a good man says. So the fuck, he looked at me, men and whose like we're gonna, if you were going to dance, you know we were going to dance in a backed up into the corner and he just looked at me. He goes fuck. You Jerome walks out my when, while those pretty intense you know, and so then we will go Oh and there's okay, we're going to start sign up the tunes of alpha. Bravo DE chart echo platoon rate system, naming names. A cartoon espinosa go. She s cool so goes onto the data and then they call bucolic guy's name, he can work and work for tuna guy and he s brother competent. both of us and echo platoon, and I pulled that name taken through it off.
The later on, I found out he was with a guy named Anton arrogant and killed in Iraq. Fight they maguire rigged amount to get hit two times there they went on to helicopters to end up in. They jogged everybody off, so there were patrolling. They took enter They moved him forward and never He was never really appointment re, but they had moved him up out of out of his How would you normally does he stepped out in energy,
lol, there's lot of times you you just step out and it's a basecamp right and and if you're not really quiet, they know you're coming, and so he stepped out they got engaged. He got shot killed the two vietnamese another american and two guys wounded. We're going to talk to my partner- and I learned about this, so that was what the op was right I didn't know that that antonio gettin killed many understood. What did happen twins? the two for three months and didn't talk to each other. Damn he didn't talk to me. We look we'd work and do so The news, like the visual, can and about what we're doing what it was like part
it was hard. I'm not gonna. There was like I too invisible forces that had no way to communicate like a big war in a and I wonder with homework. The trade to go to the trade will have a beer, many pulls by his car reason he was in their cause. You getting drunk broke out his teeth. That's why he was there the only words years, espy yeah scissor, where you goin, I'm gonna trade. When you're gonna write, I hate, walking, yeah, so I get in their didn't say a word. We drove up to the bar re programming front, hidden, there's nobody in their separate tobacco, louis?
no tobacco right, the guy not tell you but I've gotta digressing, but at the same place, magnetizing garcia came in there as many. all we need is teams more ends and re so, but to do about their so that was tobacco, louis I'll, go. We read idiom off, it was a goddamn tobacco lose his so we come in and in it and elected in use. Sit down there right. So we work in disguise, looks at us in It is a beer was yet in there. There was a kagan in the trade when there is higher than even a guy that you had not been able. communicate with you. I love him a nurse as everyone here he's my best friend here in the teams yeah shouldn't rendered him up, but he's he's he's. Ok, so This is your appearance. It can support the bigger picture engaged by kegs of beer for getting divorced.
Getting married getting promoted, yet demoted. killed in vietnam. Come back anything, there's always there. There is always a claim any among today, monday today, so there is always one there are. So there is always a keg, so alike, but three o clock to pray about five, because it all again during the budgetary and then it would go on so we drink that kate. Is that the pitcher of beer and in he said nice to take your another pitcher? He goes yeah sure. So I poured him a beer. We sat there sitting in the corner. I'm sitting right here, he's right here, the doors right there. You always, I always said there because you don't have you know you don't ever walk in that door either without kind of check cause. You can get it pretty easy. I mean there are some good fights in there. It was wild place and soon hear about anton sidney
So he told me about the helicopters about getting hidden and out and c mere. I don't know how we flew out of there. Everybody was wounded. The held out to a shot. Everything with his anything get hit, he's never been hit right. I was with him Anyway, you sure no story with me. You know knees cry and I'm crying. and guys who so beautiful about the bar with many other guys, you come in, they go, They got a thing going on up, not interrupt you and look down on you- guys are having their own memorials times for themselves in your own space in your own and respecting it you know, was it was gonna like the womb mean that bar was kind like we're guys. You come in with pain and would come in with anger. They would come in proud that they have kids, that was it was a place that then
he felt safe. You know nanda, so he that's when he became my team me enough of him. Sharing that with me in on we did a talk. One time for sea will gunships you'll come to texas, insofar as we are told a story about, the civil gunships and would you tell he goes? Oh noisy, like ie, like talking see you tell I said all right, so we get shot at fort we're on a dyke and these games, that is a sword in hi hired, had his shit together after we had was a young guy right, so is like do. We engage in own and look at there. He That said, I engaged me shoot. engage her the guy's. It were shooting at us on this law, the kind of an up like a little dyke. You know we're up on top of that, actually wish you'd know better.
well, the first thing is somebody shoot net you don't from down below. They got some but he was a brand new ass. Actually, you he really most camel who'd stepped on a booby trap thousand. Does another up that we're on lead him put men got some shut on his ass and doc. Manners was with us and he had me walk the point out endo, but I'm gonna get in. The crossways here. But I was at so I really just basically your talk about trade went and how that vienna, when you guys got tight- and I mean I s- pose the next thing is so you're doing. Work up and preparing to go back to vietnam are prepared to go your first deployment of vienna, joy and what's that? Is that, like a six month cycle, you bought an island, it was a six month cycle, you'd go to an island, an island. You go queer maki do the jump thing you do is just mostly pro.
Knowing how many guys you got your petunias was waiting yet fourteen guys and and he told me his ears pieces you stay with me. You won't get her sorrow, miss my see daddy many, my partners a higher here and so on. But if I have this was because of you, we can back from vietnam, we go this is homeless. When you got catch ammonia so get two hundred twenty five bucks is grabs. the same has given monies and we're gonna party in life is not. You come with me: so we go to the beach exe nothin indicate x. I wants so we go in there and he looks at lady says I want that one and that one suit two relics as she put the well as the lady says, I don't want a relax, so she puts it down it's the lady says he wants aerobics, so she put
well. That's a lady. I don't want to relax so she put it down so finally says lady. She puts it out. I said lady, and she goes little. Well he's a lot bigger than you are today. You're buying yourself a rolex watch, you know, who is that kind of a thing and we went. We took a break one went to now. Bay is where he got operated. He had this was his third trip to seal team and one with unity, and they threw us out. They threw us out of the base fighting, and so we had nowhere to stay surfer places that he knew in by town. Yet out of town you're, so we're out in town hiding if hiding ray is so at night and during the day we can hang out and then at night the viet cong would come in
so we'd be sheltered in these places. Now vietcong be in these places it we're at during the day partying and drinking in dating girls or whatever, and and we were we were hiding and then in the morning the viet cong would leave then we'd wake up. You know for three days. We did that that close to the enemy school. You know, There are even know that you there you know and that was I. There was our relationship so when europe, you finish your work up and Now, it's time to now time to fly to vietnam, nasty the fly misery from north island? We love north island. Well, I guess you on thirty, seven, the little one little sea, one, seventeen o gang or cargo plain rate, so less does when we stage all our guarantee every day we get in there I loud, and what year was this sixty nine march yet march of sixty nine march, sixteenth,
so we were getting ready to roll looking at the rivets and stuff looking at the chief that comes in there to fly the airplanes, their ability to go to the chiefs. I mean he's the pilot he's the pilot, that's pretty cool and you look out the window and, like the airplane, has all this greece, boil and stuff will go flying like this. Next thing is like it was like the hell. You know we turn off and, and so we getting ourselves back together goes with what's happening. He says, oh, I was looking at the lights says. Looking at the green light in the red the green light and red light british lousy what the green light and a red light thrown wrong sides- Joseph well is coming right out him right, so he turns ass and won't even get to vietnam that's happening so there yet the hawaiian right so we go in and I hired scissor as he has as is whatever might I drink? He got this go awry.
we go in man. Mixing. You know, I'm waken up. I look down and there's a tomato stuck on high its face was on the upper rack and I'd thrown up on his horse and how will we give you sound? So big? Is I told you again and looking around hackers of his hair stick? in the area known on looking at him, so told you we're leaving a zero six hundred. You guys relate to chop, leaving the aeroplanes rolling up the number This is on the resolute, goddamn potu, never told you, you ve got to get dresses like cravat don't you know like grim among the boots button so funny, and I ask both the has a buzzing, who in the mai daydream you gotta rule one the mai dad regardless of web pages. He says you guys got drunk, then you got enough nobody, the you out mean you guys stole a damn bus Never before has there dover
through the sailors after bursts, stole the bus ninny, the short term. does down and we're got in fight with those guys on the bus. Then there were one night in hawaii right. There was one that has one. Then why did you go to vietnam, snap? You we were, and there is another opportunity was before us because it removes between oath, whose cadets but a weather officer was in vietnam waiting for them while they got in the same fight, but that was the whole bar in that fight, and I went to barbers point to see that bart snow, the snow, a gym, got there and they got in a fight now officers in over their back in vietnam waiting for his gadgets chauvelin war naomi at if he gets his coming gave comes, is we don't know who they are? We don't know where they came from. But we know they're headed your way and those guys who got in a fight and they started a fire in the bar. The whole mean, and if you think about it right,
think about some is going to go to war, internalizing that shit and so you are loose, You know it's like an answer. You want to try to take these people and tell them I know you it's it's follow the rules. Ships or you can try dry the data that is or something that is in it military, certainly seal teams. You know you like your parachuting, your dive in their due to bunch danger stuff, and when you are young you like well, you know I could die tomorrow so home and have a good time, and I pray that that's what we're doing and the consequences ray. sequences of mistake. A brutal they're, not mueller me If you were going to ask a finger whatever, but we we fuck about air, we mess about there. And the same thing when it came on the fire department. Here, two guys got killed in my my fire training and at that ok, vietnam, probably gonna get killed.
fire department. Maybe, but this is really a kind of a lame got a job man, you fight some fire. You do. I saw it totally different when I they're right, its transition to changed for me about especially when they went up in rank is like being to later. You know the other guys do whatever they want to do in the petition, but as platoon officer and opportune leader then is the change, even as an affordable, I'm responsible for them to keep them alive. I become cheap gospels wife. and so there was You really transition a lot about what that quit. That means in those consequences, and was real and what is it to be a real frogman right through them, he's crazy gets out there but they are. operators.
Are they running on on the eagle or their running on the teams. do you love the teams. Or do you love yourself in london. that's love themselves, wound up in trouble there willing to make that or create that for four summary When I look at some of the events you know, of of how guys are getting killed down with thicken, So I, when high, when we get when we got shut out and the officer says it was taken under fire, we look at go you fucking crazy. We take when the fire dignan or how many of them are so there we saw receiving fires, we cause and extraction there is nobody come in to get is the army's that sometimes the army slick eyes would not come in but see wolf, their common
they're coming here and I've had quite a few seawolf pilots on here yeah, so he can austin and so when they lock and load in there and they're doping their ammunition just to get four cats up. I mean that that whole that whole thing is on fire right so we're runnin so we had neuer support until those you guess who were common and color where's guys were nor little phantoms, and if you need some help, we can know we can help you son at the back end right, everybody's runnin, blogger thing upon the backside of the blue blue stroke rest. We had a blue strobe lit up and I run it and got I got. Am sixty I'm running heavy renew, sixty and a headsup and hit me and richard's be married. His sister is richard sr. I read rich sr and we all we're all we're good mates. Man pin There are some bars in san diego that remember us this year, still still not allowed and just by being crazier. So I'm runnin and I follow
Haldeman in these guys, airforce force guys are coming flan like this right and when there lighten their stuff up, it looks like is certainly but ten fifteen feet up in the air, because your runnin Didn't I tell you like to see the movies me didn't mendicant support, then we'll talk about them in those days. The links role now so you're running along with being the owner of the Kc. This stuff is beating the hell out of you and you read it like this. You know, try not to get them. you're sure you're running and their flags like tool, through the water and mean the casings felons home and no isn't they could hear me because whole world behind feel the heat in everything behind me. Blown up, Did you stop? They ran back one brought to bear. On the other hand, the, but lift me out of the hall I took off running and I'm like
your feet on the ground, it rewards, and what would we do? The valley I got my be you know, and then we got over to the the sea, what was locked, loading dump and all that munition on the other side, the site we're coming on. They were great, and so we gin and then they they started up in it and ended. how it goes through training and everything everything has gone. I told the story and then, when I told me to tell you with this. You guys are is in taxes, and so then who says you tell the story right so then, if Yoko told the story, because I can get it What everybody has own story and. Then I saw her get up and he walked over up to the podium. You know when I was was there and he comes up beside me. He says rather it is just told you about. He says I didn't realize how much
that helicopter mit me and how safe have felt once my him does that helicopter? Then I knew I was okay and I never I I never thought they could use always so com is wrong. opportune, were a bunch of calm people, and and when you have that into except for new york, either runnin away from you to dining hall. You know like I want you know everybody is like that. It's the calmness keeps you write, and and if you officers, com, meaning camp, can he get lit up? You know did a real, easy transferred to dot maynard and they, the hut and airforce helicopter would die There's cavern to be in we're in reach up very sore. Trying to secure the area were receiving fire from the huge down there may at higher lit that that up was at home.
Thing. The whole dynamics of like when I wrote that piece about the flat rate, the flash of war. You know that, whether your creating over there is being created for you, the. the inside war is working and figured it out. The outside, where is, non forgiving and violent right and they're both down to out and anything the is the little boy in there is is is watching that happen and- and I think The whole war peace is totally alien because, it's not where we really want to go so those who was that pay that price. You know it's gonna cost some even in Training because pain is gonna, cost you something. When I got back in vietnam doing my out in the world. I thought that was me.
I say that I am in a fight, not movement, another they that to us nor is it was all my behaviour that I've I confused might be. Views for who way who I am, elusive, because then I was alone again. Unless all my my teammates, I was late when I last summer time regime. Vietnam- and I left right, I'm alone again right and is taking me now to come back to this piece of understanding my life right. That's crazy, I'm seventy five years old trying to figure this step up. Another look at guys like you, you've got your podcast. You've got your thing go and you did too if they'd had moma when I was coming back from might have been. That's was good. Does going to five points endeavour to fight mostly, that guy's, because that's where the danger was their guns and knives, and that was
in the fight in boulder right with the hippies you mean there's just maybe there wasn't much he was so you might go to one of my go to my my go to this place called the piggies hilo and you get hooked up with a cowboy. You know. At least you knew finding those guys isn't the dirt. You know, but and I'm gonna learn. this one brothers in vegas, I'm looking club chicken security right. The other thing is looking into the environment. Stalins is random. Looking at the bar resist cured it where's these guys who, whom I watch out for It was like being working with the program and knowing the jewel the fifty guys you got probably nine hundred vehicles that are too is there that the work on both sides that was exciting? That was the cool thing about another month or partner. Work in that programme versus workin, the vietnamese seals
it can seals renew, and I did that with the two east coastguards first saw. I worked with them they took another west coast. Guy might be doing at work with those guys with the vietnamese eels and then they set off by the way. You guys have that expertise, wanna do in men, men them we will work for the crews, who did that early, my cousin right, that the thing that whole challenging thing about, depending upon the spirit the understanding, new awareness about who you are as exciting. You know I wasn't getting that you know I was creating the tension outside. Your creates the tension so that, and as for you, think you're in nuts and so the new live your life. I like that for europe male role in my mama I'm a genuine, though, is a genuine beryl chested eta. Dignity, completed rolex wearing keyboard, can two impreshun ever frog. Mannequin it take, for
men. Forty days, a track me down, I can see in the dark, breathing water and I can fly. You know that all the whole thing, and so it's. So that's it! That's why I thought we might go on the fire department. GonNA. Look at all these, these guys only when train. You know they too. You killed in training, then their blame and everybody all euro area. This is none of the money you guys wondered. Train is our fault. So they went, my buddy got killed his kaliko. Do I do here. the word. Sacrificial responsibility comes up: acr official responsibility, great christ. Jesus man, he didn't have the diaries garden, everything else, but he's gone gods. They get a diver these morons because figured out So here you are hungry. Vietnam. Go with these guys why
What your country, you can do for you what you can do for your country, so you got ok, I'm at where can I go I could tell me about being a fragmented way, then you get turn, you see these guys and you see this instructors bigger than life nobody knew seal was a new. frogmen was allotted from of burma. Where was from the and get some ten and alaska, then there's the choice, Choose to do that are not. Are you to choose to be part of the family or not kids in their own families right now that choosing they don't want to contribute to lead that bus repetition in them. My dad told me one time and she'd give me says the only thing that ever gave you was my last name: don't bring dishonor on it right and this this thing, gave forth good education right,
The biggest thing that I learned from him was part of preparing me for the teams. We were hunting and my dad said: Gibi we shot a nuke, we tracked down is getting cold. I am freezing, were poor. We may have had cotton gloves there ain't none of this cabela's shit, all that right now and we're two barrow duper. Levi's is call them ten years old, with my dad. well. We shot and we got to find. If we're indians, we don't leave, we don't leave stuff out here, will track and will make will find him I do realise because of our subsistence, we we killed him. hunting in the winter time, and we finished all summer long, that's how we ate and we would plants stuff in the garden and we'd restrictions a rabbit, That's how we ate, thus not about diet, but how many guitar Gettin eggs, you get plucking chickens, dinin, rabbits and has, if they're hutton right, come on. You says no to we track him down. There is
areas is the ark so we're iraqi who can the blood the winds blowing is getting cold, getting everything else. Some tells us vision with him. It not only want to vietnam freedom, I bought off man and when I It called out in coronado man, I remember, being at barker down freezing my ass off with my dad that I never thought about with the temperature. The water was, but I knew of his goals. So so a mom. We find the ark, and this is ok. Gimme says Now you gotta go back and get the hunters get the rest of the guys. Mister travis. My brother, MR gomes, has gone dad. So
the I says I dunno. You know he says. Look grabs me looks at me right in the eyes. He says: listen, what you're feeling is fear. I understand it don't be afraid ok. So I take off you know, and I went and it isn't like left and right saloon, you talkin about that. The spirit of god rate is this: whatever is the guide you. Combat whenever you're doing stuff, lotta guys lotta guys have this, Sometimes they think is them within reserve. Things is put you in a different place in the offing. It did. Survived and other guys didn't is time. Enchant right and making a decision one way or the other. The thing, however, get you there whatever it is. You and feel sorry that you survived and they didn't that's life
someone dead since we do go, find these guys I'm going and looking at the track, and there was like. I don't know where to go, and then in here is like when I gonna find it. I find my diet shot or now can I government. They cool, yeah. Okay, they follow me out. They grabbed their guns. They grabbed polls. They would go out there and refinement dad and he's upstairs smoking see looking at them safe. You know now, that's a big elke, you know, and he and my dad had had me. We always carried a little bag that had a hatchet bone saw and knives in their right. That's really
to me before he told me go get one hunters right, so I went up to where my dad was and he grabbed the face like this. You know looking down at me since I knew you could do that. You know and when and when a when I read like in the talent that, where god, when you went, Christ got bad It is right that the word says that the so this is my son, who I'm while please At the my dad grab my face and told me that I thought wow man, it is my responsibility. But my doubt is the fact that I proposed in my life here to go. Get those guys. You know with the but you're, so one of them is, is like.
J in people's while two calling to be a fragment and well. Is that there's a thing I think our egos what can I make it? Can I not some guys can take under heading I don't write that it's with their families, all tat right, my family. forty when we're ready the letter one and when I was going back into forty two about mom, I really want I want this more than anything in the world right and my mom knew now fifty years later right. They did that class on two thirty mama so the new year and sealed in. Why do you know that I didn't know? That's what you were doing even after vietnam. Right, I don't know. If that's what you were doing, I do remember my mom actually mean sister said: cabbies, yes, Mamma most gonna fight with miss martinis, really seizure. consider
I told him you're, gonna, vietnam and she said well all years is do is be fodder of. You told me myself, father I'll, kick the hell, you know that's not supported. Mama was Kennedy. domineering in Ghana mean really better. The new. They were always there for me. You know and if you want to come back and get my dad here this afternoon, work up after I did all my stuff, vienna veterans against war. The young social superbly come school, it see you. I got a letter when I was getting back from vietnam to resolutely She should audrey right there, is already gone, also, obviously the one hundred and eighteen pounds right, so I barely make it home to admit that I didn't really have to cut. I must still just a little guy These get my kids, we gotta reunions, sit there and look in and they find it got to the age where they were dat asked it's
The little guy here the little girl my life, but When I got that letters slight, whole new thing I didn't fit. I wasn't brown I have to be brown. I was waiting to be fired as a vietnam vet. I just got done. Call me from mommy with my teammates and stuff, like that, Tell me viva la raza and all that is like an american. My people have always been from, in and it doesn't have to be that their from your. But this is what I feel and hears from my heart. from my solid income, but it did the eagles guy we want those ragman to start getting shot at men, your gaseous, having on worker what am I doing here. You come out with all your teammates everybody, but you know like after the operate yours. children go out.
No that was pretty intense and the guy. There was always. pretty cause, though you know when I got when I get hit it I'll do you was pissed at me, if where'd you get when you get hit. I picked up some shrapnel by cambodia. You know we would we'd be on these barges and they'd float down. River and we'd operate off them And that is when you got there, that was the first. Then you got tasked with what was the first thing you at tat worth when you got on the ground. Was your job owed? Who did you platoon all operators, tuna Judy more, we get shaved off and are now four zero. No first of all like for the first three months, we were all operate as opportune operations down the syndic off of pvc arse right anyway, I owe you everyone. We go to an preamble issues raised some bushes prisoner snatch. We looked like find out with the tax collector that reduce the in tone capture, then who is getting the until the wheel?
you guys get to yourselves. It's mostly yeah. Well, we had like the nilo out of saigon. Some of our officers, captain scheibel, was mirror anderson. Was there some other team guys we're getting the information wizard, get a target package like all hears. Here's a grid location for little village somewhere, yeah and they'd, be like this it's this huge over here is where this tax collector is this viet cong tax collector of the vcr yeah? This is where he's supposed to be right, so we'd go down and or will we don't? We just go sit and watch and society for two days and seek what boats come where they come just hidden, so you do do just like a reconnaissance illness away. My watch notices And wait and watch how many weapons? How are you mostly going by the water enough three months I just waterborne operations yet pompiers, our own illicit and elsie peel. So big with many gonna back sixties and
Would you insert a night there, just kind of drop you off most of the time at night we liked operating at night more than during the day and then we'd sit during the day and watch when you know we're, even though we were there, how many guys would you have out most recounts sit well which it all we got here. We take a platoon dependent upon a if expecting something big or reduced. you seven man teams and were usually appointment as point and rear. Can I go back and forth. You know so well for about one appointment when an hour an hour. He victor austrian than I I ran point four. Would you carry fer a weapon junior? stoner stoner. when I was with you ve had recently carried out sixty you home use. Have we cared enough sixty when you with the vietnamese? How can we switch? from a stone or to a sixty, because I just want to some big Zagreb's vigour like this, like the sword like they had their m16 rate
and they have stoners when we work through the vietnamese they didn't have stoners. There was only one sixteenth, but I just felt something big yeah. You know and You'll get pig yeah everything to get measure is another vietnamese guy. There is only one m. Sixty slowed me to sixties right and on this I just a rule. I dunno, if it's a logical thinking, but that's and then buddy bill. He was radio So where are you with the vienna visas and adviser? I dug you know when you are doing with the first three months, so you're doing ops. you guys are carrying compared to what we have to carry now. The modern guys, wear body, armor and rady everybody's carrying the radio everyone's carrying body armor everyone's wearing a helmet. Everyone has night vision, it's like even the weapons cars,
get your weapon, but then on your weapon, you put a laser new, put a scope and it is a the light like everything. Just you guys look like super slick compared to we were, we were quiet yet were apparently VI's couple you know are are stuffed were some guys were stuff on the outside from if you went round the wrong set, you'd want to put your stuff on insect, keep from getting when you put your bandoliers on the inside, where your your oh your web gear. Well, we didn't, but if you carry, if you, if you, if you did it like this right, if you strapped a mother, you didn't really wear web gear right, you could wear the the harness and just the hearts and then other guys had their vests made up like what you wear now. The best guys would go to the parachute loft now and have them created right. for their m magazines, and things like that, so you are wearing jeans, though
This is the one. This is the one bullshit thing about all these guys: frogman seal team, guys right, oh yeah, because it was better than the beady use at all that bullshit, you were with. You were leave eyes in their work and their money and their heavy and you get chafed and all that is in turn a ticklish. shit with apparent levi's. You know Why'd, you error, because local. Combat qualified men. You wanna combat qualified, purely rise again home right. It makes more sense. When you got home, you believe eyes That, though, is the misery of the delta. These are from the delta man, misery. Wherever there's five combat ops. You know what I mean: that's what it was about. I make appeared genes right now and we com delta sixty eight
it's cool yeah yup. They fake a pair of jeans that we called delta sixty eight in honor of you guys were cool yeah, so yeah, that's. That was why you know cause there's nothing cooler than walking in downtown san diego downtown corner with four guys have combat qualified leave asia and you're gonna run into sumerians against their luggage. Your leg, it is your even these watches we'd get you levite within our sidney the deal the daylight cafe done in in corneto. Ok,. Day and night cafe in a cafe a little long booth, yeah I've been there, I'm sitting there with me and me and hyatt right, so we're eaten, and this guy comes up sue, look like when I was little, went back, fragment sunlight
It would be one of those night there's going to be one of those nights that hey it looks like his mother fuckers, you wanna call him back and be MES is not you and I don't call him that I taught as aloof as it'd be cool man. Sarah. So I get done here says I kicked the shit out of him says: okay sp, sir, and I just almost finished so I finished up and I turned around. The boy is a big guy. I went hey man, I'm gonna, tell you something, and so, when I did that, I just wouldn't have behind his neck and the other one needs to throw off all gone right. He moved to my my heels were still art on them all. I hung on and then high jobs on top of the bar karate ray
yeah I'm just hanging on all this kind of stuff. You know those guys are looking at lw. You know and he's like not like Bruce Lee. What, everything in the feeling that you know so finding the guy he choked him out hung on it came around and choked him up. Now I got mad that kansas, my wife pops off into the street right shit. Kicking me, my shoot goes off into the secure your gear. Better hired just looks at me like that. You know come on as we listen to this joint, so we go out, and I pick up my shoe and put it on government watch put it on it this way. So we are always thinking right, so we walked to the corner and we get out there and his face looks with picture of the crates as they come in. So not yet, and he said well, let's get that out of here before that big somewhat betrayed it's just like cause. I got him by surprise, but but but that's
you gotta, hold his. I grab and hold the tiger. I you not if you let loose it's gonna jack you up here, so you know so you guys would run recon look at a target, and when you are going to go hit the target. What was that? What was the normal profile of a mission like that you take sampans in? Did you go in the night till you cooler? We did. We did work through the the poop program. This is a tip. This is a an operation right Me and explain what the press is province, reconnaissance units, Similarly, the meets vietnamese there. they were not seals. Does this year programme had some stuff vietnamese that view to me seals and then they also had the pure you probably true problem. You're, gonna sing units and they work for the company right now. a case worker that use in charge of him and senior officer american officer or an enlisted right.
My body and I've relieved. Those guys any was before- and I think I was in for re, but we're operate so then, so how many people are in a pr you? How many vietnamese did you haven't one of those groups up forty and grew so this there's forty vietnamese and there's two of you, to avoid american advisers right and then the case worker and in interpreter, maybe two interpreters and now that forty probably about fires so we cannot be india car did you live with them? Yeah livers among obey, like I'm like a villa type thing, and now we are used stayed with them and then what was the uptempo like puppy red glow. depending on the that was what was spooky about it because love there until came from them right, so they could set you up. They can sit. You, though
and the guys in the company could set you up to be hit, so you had to kind of figure things out and that happened to us. A couple of times it was we got hit. We figured out the two guys were kind of. When they were around, things happened when they weren't around. So would you drop that? Well, I told the one guy she wouldn't, like my interpreter says to get like then unlocked. Oh Savoie, you know the content no took on the debt. You know I can, but there is a very bad men and says if you signal and then did you see, what's happened with this guy goes comgall edgy. He says I take her. so we have another up the gate and come back so because he, the mai, interpret like I was any works in my cousin right was good.
Trustworthy and that's it see. Some were good untrustworthy. Somehow there there, the sec face responsibility. The thing that they feel from her heart was reynaud and others and others were victims. There, in the military, by being a victim in the wars going on where they are going to go. Where they're going to go, so you are about? You are about to tell about an op like a standard op that you did with the pr you, okay yeah, one of our guys. Silty one guy comes up to us and says: hey. We need some gunners right. I have like. I have two boats, probably about six guys in each boat, we're going to do a pru up we're going to go. Get these tax collectors right all. I need you guys to be shooters. Alright,
So my offs, while my lcp or black mac, was with me me hyatt black mac and I dunno. If macintosh was on it or not, but so here we are in the sand, pants for sampans right there to black mac, another guy and me at height, and we're going to we're going to take the bodies we're going to we're going to time what we're going to take the bodies launch off of set off of pvc are in sand. Crews, crews of this river, its nighttime its night till you guys are you guys, dress like vietnamese rigour in black? Nobody goes just I'll see. That was our petitions to, though some guys you were black some days were black the germans and we're levi's. Other guys. Beware! bring tops, are just your kind makes him ass, always if we did a blocking force. One time an army guess who's. Ices moments with were frogmen,
but there's a holes, drug we're, gonna, Google, the killer, colonel in his helicopter. You know, but we did but the I'm glad you didn't, so was I high. It was like that, like that, I'm gonna shoot. Welcome, issued this guy. Why? if the colonel darren, where we got ambushed with the army, were we're doing a blocking force behind the army. That's your thing too. We'd work with some army, so we were doing a blocking force, an army unit. They got sniped on so this guy and a colonel coastline over and he throws a cs grenade out so that she is going. He goes out and pins his guys down there getting sniped that the rest of us were not different shit levy. Cars were lined up along the bank and to sell a couple of lands right outside of his right, lounge right outside of us, so he comes walking along as whirling up the bank and he works by high. Consider looking at us and high says, I guess you're there
oh mother fucker the two? This see us for nato its egos you and ruin a fuck. You guys we're just blocking as you know, and soon, swabs I'll talk to you when I come back right, so we goes over there and these guys they did. They did metaphorically got. These guys are never wounded. Combine one guy got killed, but so then he comes back out. He said We will see who you guys are. You know. I don't give a shit who yours would be through another cs grenade out. Theirs is almost shoot. Your fuckin helicopter out in the air here it looks at him, goes back to silk copter and when he gets in, he sticks his CS grenade out the loose ends of get his stoner, and it goes like this and I got shit. So I grabbed mine and the other five guys that grabbed theirs were up there and I'm thinking he pulls the trigger that guy is going down. He pulls it back in and
those were the guys were, then we all the could easily get out of control here. You know what I mean. but he did maintain our itself. So back to this. pure you are pro op. That you're kind of like saying was a good one to highlight. Yeah, I prove the Pru adviser team guy got this information right and he says I just need you guys to come in and back me up, because we had the stoners. He had the mean of those guys all they had with the carbines m m m to carbon. then maybe maybe one sixteen, and with those guys, with the vietnamese yours, you might find a and m sixty with the proves you wouldn't when stuff went down, he can't call any american air force or air force or air support or any of that stuff, and they don't fly
support for anybody. They, they were doing everything like from the bush right and kind of guys who worked with the mountain yards right. So he says I I get this and tell us his roots you to snatch these guys, as you set up security, says we'll throw them into boats. You guys, package, woman will get away out of there will grab hold of the cars we could use. Our were using were gone on the up. He can use our boats and wreck the tide, the sampans, alongside of them, and they can go so so here we are hospitals inherent in the back with this ampat. You're repentance sampath know I have not there. Like p rose those you did the Piero, those like the guys in the the cages down Louisiana highlights four have available for those there a bit so we're we're pellets
like a sort of canoe, a clue before like a canoe, but the sand panzer like they get there like flat, bottomed little thing and they go like this and there the pretty tilted right in and you got pelham in the attack. He here I thought he really new back and what we want. We're sailors were frogman. We figure anything else were Palin were in. The rivers are very, very wide pit. This bank Go like this, where, following these guys up there, so we're stuck in traffic you'll get up with them So there we go into an area, and it was like here's where the hutus were the whose Right he saw the hutus are along the banks of the river right along the bank, the river, so we came in, we set up support security for them. He's got his prove his proves appear and then now he's it's ok, it's the same for corner security right anything to come.
at the walls on the two corners you shoot them were right. You know cause that's how we did it. You know, because in a huge, if you don't have your your prefer, you know the two corners is going to get hurt. Somebody comes out here, you can, you can shoot them. These guys are going to shoot. You know the four corners, it's all right, so we're sitting down here with paddling, Sport require it turned out to be John wayne fight out. My luck. You known guys sir John wayne fighters, where they know your there. It means when they got inside the cats they were in, their were fighting back, he'll kill you vietnamese. There were the pru guys they weren't they weren't tin, guys. In other words, they warn us. So the proves go into the village, go into the origins of the huge and again were gunfight, they get into a gun and fire fighting. Ok, so get goes playing out the huge
and the guys on the corner, you'll kill him right, and so then there's a single on any one. Guy comes out on our side. Runner right in front of us black man. This is very. First time. I ever saw this right. Having them. Seventy and grenade launcher right. Usually, if you're going through the like, dense jungle, you carry the frechette rounds or now While this was gonna, be in an open area, so he did didn't eg role in this, yet goes run in the pact. One flare, then, in the our fight, the river goes like this. There is some pulled down here, vietcong re, so we had the fire fight. They were getting hit over there These guys are run another back back. Mack shoots is going in back with that. Grenade meagre, nay, larger and all I saw was two hands in two feet: flying through the air
well well, I everything can go slow motion, Andrews noise, but it seems like it's quiet you don't you know you. You the disconnect duenna benny you it's. It's all just happening and anna, but you know you're, ok, an average com about it and love It was run in the up capture, just two guys right. So when we hadn't packaged up these guys, start opening up to where we were so vehicle start engaging. You guys. Did the vehicle network a little bit off the target wreck therein join us, but we need to go out over here. So we got the two bodies for the tournament because there was for guys This is europe where one of my friends do you guys I didn't we capture some generals. We want anyone on the up,
henderson a memorial day, his inner memorial day thing. It shows it to anyone. circumstances, it was a general recover, wasn't suggest some vichy earthlings to visa guys and the tax collector. yeah that was says so why I said because the guy who told me about the stories he said. generally she was anyone on Europe as a whole, because you're You stuff get a nod and not any. What he's taking credit for this there's another up. One guy did try to take credit. For me is called the donkey story. What for another. So in its own time, how do you get? so you decided to you the area leave the area of operations ready to go by this group of right that are engaging the yeah here right, so, then we didn't know that there's other guys on this site, so they start shooting back at these gaps so we had friendly's
Those are friendly's up now there have you come to us of it. So there's vietcong on both sides, on both sides of us, here's the place we're going now. We have these guys here and we're paddling out between them. So you're, going to paddle out between viet cong on both sides re this, Not good does not get. The one thing, though, is good about it though it was a black night is a dark, so we weren't silhouetted on the river right for the short time that the flare went up. We saw what's going on. We know we're goin out, so we fuck off but they had the single on it and it was like. now, another one whose, if what the hell are, we do any right. But by the time We got out on the river because there is a two vietnamese knew pants and black makin to vietnam. in that the third champion, Hey it with our guys. We passed everybody
we will wait now on the river valleys goes. This europe is like we're gonna last week, where there is not. then the boat, because the the radio was with her with me. this would lead mac, so he had to call black max. what in command or origin was. Are, though, the distant and many more I tried to call him black mac because he was a black man with a black mac and we had pink mac macintosh. He called pink. We have macintosh pink back a figment. We were talking in bimini too, so I was you know, echo was asking about macintosh and he was like he was wait, a second source, so mackintosh a black eye, and I said I'd like now, no he's waggeries he's what is me and then he asked you the same thing and you are like He legitimately had his mom was legitimate, we black right. Well. For me,
this was news, and I knew that lack for a long time he had freckles. Last name is macintosh. He looks like a complete white dude, I mean it makes the store even for you have to concentrate on his face. You see the black features. If you really start looking clare, I mean I knew him for a long time and young out with them. I know if you would ask me, I never would have said that guy's black other than the fact that you know everyone knew he was slightly from the violence and that this was best, but I just figured he was some white guy, you that that grew up there. If you think that's ok seals are, think we know who the arbiter. you know no, but anyway, We got it. We got, there will soon gave an is, is a cool up in the guy that was run in the up here you're so happy because you ve been trying to catch those guys for a long time, so change is always a dynamic. The entails
was dynamic so soft- and it was good today was different. Escape it's kind of like similar kind of like the way the outcome, what I'm understanding as they're moving all the time that you always have to adjust without in this interesting. You know that the fact it no we're working with iraqi soldiers or the out I didn't find in afghanistan because it did not work in afghanistan the deal with the same stuff? You know you got these, you got these partner forces that you're working with some of em off most of em are good, and what do you got? Four five of those guys that our definite suspect he got two or three of them better back and you what one of one of my friends got shot up pretty bad by that they thought was, you know. Was there a go? Do do mission will you he's especial force guy. What
about the. What about the dunk up? What happened with that? One? Oh, that was that was going on the football island fan in me, tick, the vietnamese, the kid that was sitting beside me. I loved him in He was a gay tommy's. It espy I'm off from my country what your country has, for. You says nope says you see as you come and then you'll go said, but I'm gonna die here. I'm gonna fight. I've been fighting before you got here. This is, I'm woman die now, oh dick, so we're gonna be together. I'm gonna get out of come on after not come back and zoom want The vietnamese navy skeelty right, that's that's rose. with, but I need you to work too where'd you get out and you know, there's there's a thing where you realize that if you do Have you not all in you're, gonna you're gonna get killed. and ass. For my respect for the cats, like you and guys, it's been in for thirty nine years that, like Hayden,
Hayden shall digg is I do not like frisk and crowded and that those guys sometimes there's that little break of war between after now that space and then there's more of it But for me it was like hanging to get I need to get out. and I had the honour to resolutely risk reach song. So there is with tick in sicily, the football island was. There was a bunch of cats there and we want. The pull up on it, so we did. Is we did three people three c and tick? Guttural sampan went up to football. Island is but any wider than this the room. So I can tell feet across two feet. This is how big the river was or how big a football island, though that's how big the riverwood football island is probably about three clicks wide by about two clicks: three to click.
no wait in long, but we didn't have a lot of intel on it and then, during the day there was a lot of you know they would they would move around right. So what we want to do is find out how many were there? So we went in at night went in with the tight sampan, just the four of us went in, called it the sil river. Then then it narrowed probably to about that way. So like six feet, six feet right but way out was the big river. And that's we came in on. We came in with analysis, see right with sampan attached to it. So they launches the crews on up the river and then we turned in when did I arrive? So we nearing sneaking pig. We got up the probably be my first reach the mouth of the rivers to like
get out, zat signal them, signally gets them signalling, but who is right? bank, where we were going up. Swallowed sons it doesn't mean they're right, they're right, so we stayed local real low, paddle paddle in up just kept going, went by them, probably about two minutes. Three minutes up. You know that not that far up, maybe maybe but five minutes. So there we got to where it was easy to pull in. There is like a like: I shall bank that we can get ancillary hammered out of the boat? No, we crawled up picking up like picking up. Look in cheeses, just gets were smoking cigarettes they had their weapons. Stacked and talking and then there was this thing. How many covert fifty that's a big group again, that's a big group can do other than what did you stoner. Anyone have a sixty, will now nano. We ve got desolate forest owners. Three. donors and anna tickets sixty
so we got so we could go too far. The wheels were not there so it here. This dispute is like her, Like a dive me like a real hollow. So is a little wood little peace would like this house to serpents heads had a drilled through it, and then there was a line there was cut out. It would that hollow okay is almost like a precaution, instrument yeah nigger, but had to place where your thumb would fit and when your finger fit. I didn't know, at the time we just heard it. So then we There were land out on the river. We hear this Ah, While the bone, mr we're just we will. We just kind, hang enough for my work for minutes. Maybe maybe we got it just when the tide was four and then
started running out right the gets along the river looked upon a barge. somewhere So the vietnamese guys by their they're gone Then they would go sit in his little dog. said. I suspect americans are stuck yeah is doing, is issuing a swivel. We should get two guys go killer we're just hanging out here. You know and that's just take a break. Let him live tonight, and so take was like we're gonna have to get out of here. I saw this one guy gets Peace? He says I want diamond today d. I I'm go take a leak, so he goes with the little thing and I'm laying here in heights laying there and he takes his thing and he puts it down. This is a percussion instrument, but yeah he puts it down, and so then higher light was to later right. He's. One is called me up. I'm here ticks here. enriches over here. So I
some say my looking in the late it when he lay it down whose like right in front of me, then he starts peasant between me and hyatt, so it really does go like this. Like you know, you can fill the like rain fitness pop your head off or go son of a bitch, so the one that gets hay, gente sin who took notice well yeah, so he turns around goes back over gives his guest cigarette. Is this move me? I grabbed that thing or my pocket. We slid out and they were on the low look where the the current is starting to move out. So it was pretty cool, so we weren't, like we're going out with it. Those boats are so where we get out there and we pass by the guide the shocked us like in I didn t really understand it within Lou uses a cafe,
the fuckin bullets got into my back with his. I could just feel them all away. We use get that snub reality. there. There are things it I'm getting that little bit later, but So we went out. It was so dark that when guys you're still sit there. We pulled the boat up there with. Sailors push you have. We push them off the bars and then we took off, but I had that dump it in my pocket so. I told the story to body. Might Andy Willingham team gay agenda, This is cool moons and I showed him little thing inoculate or brought it back in and now he was last forty, one tough, man is actually yet tussle with a guy, I'm not gonna, say the guy's name, Middys east coast guy, the real high end at random lot officer that is high RO fallen, shit we're in the trade when barney starkness east coast west coast, bullshit
An anti willingham tells you know you shut the fuck up on fuck you up. andy's dad used to that money without these Down in south- and he was a relative of strong thurman- have used a knock donkeys out with six input. While the guy goes, why out? drugs as beards as I get, zaire is really takes off I, a very famous east, conceal, you know big name payment. I'm never going to be in the history books, but that's how things happen. Then you know it was you the big the guys that are higher top endued with the big reputations and stuff like that there, just regular guys, you're, just a regular cat, we're all were all like that, and I think this is where the meat he gets sing and dance sensationalize. Everything about you know. Work.
we are anti magnetic genuine rule. That means all of that stuff right, but but when we knew when you're going to screw with the frogman in you out somewhere Nothing I just had to kick daily one eggs beaten, guys with him to prove that you know me this is this is where the powers that everybody knows that right in and when it goes down where's the calmness you know- and you know that, That's the one thing is that in the military, of time you're, both a coward and hero, and when she goes down in you on your find you go someone you. How did I get here when you can run as fast? backwards you carom forward, each one of the answers and says look alike they smell like, but they're, not like you is it at all, Different thing, and each one has its own evolution, the same as a fire has its own character, has its own in.
What do you say in vietnam? Is that thing you see this gonna kill you I told my guys on the fire by miss. Not the things. Gonna kill you. What is things sniffing around with jocose, namely has gone where it is and that's what the training comes it, and if you the training, then you have the millisecond seen in theirs spiritual thing. This is the wrong place or don't When I look at opposite the other that, like our new guys now, you guys right young guys get killing ganis racks like where was discussion, but this that was pretty jack differently, beginning, but because we are who we are. We give space and time too I wasn't there, they were there. That's there. That's There are open and how are you aware of rewards our whatever happened. it's a thing that was sniffing for them and they didn't see it
how well trained you're, sometimes it's just not there What did you do with with mac. with with sock. Did you work? Did you do saga any saga operations? The demands we so g thing was the proofing broker so that they that was there. I was there palace there. That's their thing. god. I suppose I didn't know it was they just me and bill. There is a yawner. These guys are leaving takeover were like alright, and the only reason they sent us for that is because I was with the vietnamese seals with two east coast guys and I and work that so then scale. Ok, we want you to because I could speak. I spoke better vietnamese and spanish. You know so you pick it up from the african up the point men from from tee, can climb in unlock and all the guys The guy's, a pretty with were vietnamese seals at all the rest. The americans operate with someone takes said, yeah
be here, but you guys you gonna, leave us and I'll probably die here. All of them were killed, lock a home tick all these guys. So That's how I picked it up there. It guys it what the venues langley school didn't send me. I spoke rid of vietnamese. I did then the to get me langley school because of personalized in makin. Could speak to follow because he in vietnam he's had been, thing. I learn another of the two gallo phrases right and so. I was invested with dick and I was invested with the liberation of south vietnam. There are lots of such a thing, your allotted vietnamese and let us see team, guys, vietnam seals that that's how they felt and then after wind down, I minute, I talked to some guys, said well yeah I'd like to go back some and I had
partners partners is over the damn thing over there. They know Meat ever go back there in, and I think what happens is there's a romance. There's a were you romance, says the memories right people romanticize wars, durham, romantic of what it is or they think about what it is. I think Those who was to be there see their nakedness of it. You see the other you're at the flash of of the changes, your life, the changes. But his life and think sometimes it you can only see that in war we get people in communities that there are going to the same thing of train. Through puss emetic stress in their own neighborhoods in our agenda, but when I went through has given me language to what happened in my life there are now evil.
You re evaluation council in his one rather pitcher, of who I am as usual in being advanced particulars, therapies, the good thing that some there's some guys you're doing that they gave me a mental pictures of for ongoing going, and Ladys really help me with its hurt is called rewired creator, but with where We have come to the point where I'm not gonna settle for that like I said earlier in my convictions in my wants me to be stronger than the then the alps, does that I settle for in the past that it's ok to do this in a can. Do that anymore and Can I go to forgive myself for the sins of my past strain? That's. That's a big anyone. I, when I was in coronado this last time, three union. I go there. I gotta Dennis born, have a beer with mario masters. Mentored him I was his wrestling coach in colorado, rife bad dude.
I I wrestle him and then be like ok. You know when you ruslan again, you know he's getting stronger and tougher, and then you go Why should I hang out here a little bit more he's going to beat the hell out august ticket. That was that was him. You know- and I. That that family in their relationship and what we create for each other It's beyond just happening is all it's beyond his being frogmen is there's the holes brutal connection to the Oh you don t guys. It didn't know shit that when they pick, nor can you swim, yeah. Ask you one well get well we're due guises. What did you can weapons you carry? Who my crib hours swimming Johnson were flair. as a robot weapons, a sword don't drop and pick up aims is to miss the boat. This is your swimming in with the fleet.
with the guys it at length on the beaches and there's usually marine land around you can just take is what the need in care that was their character. Those that's who were born from right. That's wouldn't the tadpole pulled frog. You know that And she stone man, we live in a repetition of dead, managed people they're going to sit down, say or that your reputation right, each one of our generation's. Those guys behind is Or building their own generation there there building their their building where's going to go. If the people there operate that tibet. lose. When I came back, I was by myself. You sit there and trade when bar I look at My comment: negotiate they still sit there as bs
so I come over to him ass, a mere how you doing gaps pitch beer Whose Anderson were pretty It bad ass, little operator take my drink right. Syria- is the transition to being That's not caught union. You couldn't I, unlike those called seal operators, nobody would ever call themselves operator the only person who could call you and operators yourself is your- is your teammates? The guys were with you and when they say that- and somebody else is it to you in came from you. It came from cancer with you in there some gets. There were recalled operators, their vietnam, there seals vietnam geyser team guys, but not at that level.
at whatever level that isn't it isn't mean too but one type of operator over another operator is, is that you are not? better than all the rest of the operators in the world, because then because then it becomes the eagle thing, but from here. if somebody cause you that enormous cry It means something you know and I want you know like a drink or him and. Do you have these disguise it they say that are bigger than life and actually are not bigger than life, their people that know how to connect with you that are. They give you life more than anything. I can do that. I can be this oliver chief Ellen, bury you knock. You know
Noise as fortunate man I I walked with I out with some good people did you guys did your platoon? Did you lose anybody and you're deployment dogmas, doc maynard transfer. He he rotated with the the army corps. Ui is a marine corpsman so that the? bring corpsman could get some money. Do the ship over stuff and use when there was walking by the Van Hoy doc maynard vancouver walking by when they drove out that eighty two millimeter mortar and killed five seals You haven't a bitter spoken by then they that I wasn't there causes working with the approves Bertha. the body? My name d, there were seven were party they're changing out the thing that was crazy, but anyway at the party.
cause you're coming over new just had a party in they were still do no big more operations in vain. Told these? Is I'm gonna get killed you this time, so it does. But what are you talking about he's these guys careless? The dangers says, I talked to him about stuff. She says, but we're gonna mess up and he did and it he had already had like three or four trips. You know and he was when he was one of the few so called. Then why was he was rockstar ando. you get me was the very first, so we go to vietnam, you're gonna release relieve opportune that they grab me like this. I do and you asked for you, but look, I'm shaking hands with a dead man as well. You think that's funny,
You know they do those ghana things you know, and so I did when I left so. How was it a common home? Did you think you're goin back to another opportune like you again what a guy! Why did you make the decision like that? You're gonna get out get the letter to rustled universe, you colorado, which was always one of my dreams, because I was used in boulder and at that man the recipe discoverer of babes imbues in boulder, my hometown, her bows bullet symbol. I guess I just heard on the lips elicit a minimal calculate on, because I got I was ready. I was right. You know. I felt that I felt that thing there. I go back again em my gear whacked and they needed are needed, Time away, you know and
had that space and had the time and I was ready. Then I'm cheating, my I may be the winged link in new. Let down the team, and others operations. I'd rather not be there, and I m so yea in and saying goodbye to those guys who is really hard enough And then all the other stuff, you know, there's the the people talk about some of the movements that are coming now about gender and all that kind of stuff yeah. We do that in the teams long time before that you know what hey guys or whatever it is. You know the like in in community of the three allow for everybody to exist. Not in the teams. I mean the teamsters all but we're in california swimming was that they're talking about now is already all the gay thing, the whole all the rest of his. So when I discourage you they were. There was a lot of people treads. Surprise you about things,
the evil arrest thing about how violent they are Vietnam is like minute enough. I did I. Vietnam veterans against war, young socialist republic- that visa the islam thing is like raised in boulder starts going down. Oh my god. What happened in my life when I was a kid I felt like my days were black and white days. Vietnam is a green and black and I came home- is all technicolor male of chicks, gettin come and ask if you want sex, you know like What happened this free love and all that- and I quote worse where's, the moral pictures those things he was like a there. Were there weren't any there's your was it that you got out sixty nine. Seventy had not got back, I'm. Sixteen are just like the height of mayhem in america near here that hope, was going down tender.
Now remember at a party this guy was talking about the that's gonna movement, As there is another kid there he is. From del, nor and listening to him. No scope for corn was really an accurate I swear on good ideas. Can kenneth bullshit because I discuss call me for mamma back here from bolder and I said well, you're your sell out august, I'm a sell out because they love me because of what I did and skid more marty Martinez. He says so now- you can say whatever he wants any back answer. So that's kind of a cheap thing in it. She no like illus, god, doors. Sorry, so we go outdoors and I I forgot where it was right
so I walked out and chooses the other time that the outside warrior kind of got the upper hand a little bit girl. What happened? What happened? Was he hit me right? I turned and looked at in situ slap by women harder than you can you deceive me, as is generally Stand by example, kicked out these three guys. First, you little girlfriends and then you Oh no, no man says you have then was reminded me back when, as in junior high fight this guy, then: oh, no you're, ok you cope bullshit I you are manipulating these young kids into it. You think it is, but they're not there be manipulated, snipe, creative thought, so I won't do it now. I know you got another item or go back in the party may infer
it says you come back in their utmost kick inside their out. As a matter of fact, when I go to a party, if you there you better leave, and if I'm there don't later on? He got killed, lighter threatening some. old guy in new mexico right, so you fit ass. My dad sedate deny screw up. Vietnam and all that was yeah. I love him here. He's a guy grabbed my face. You told me, as don't be afraid right and my last names, the only thing I gave you a little, so he takes me over and it makes me standing in the square. We put tiles in the bathroom, not the stick, I'm not. That does important mean, so we danny, had me stand there and this this is after vietnam, as rodeo asked him. If you, if you had screwed up this, is what I was going to school. See you right cause. I came home, they were still there before.
dad told me we're moving away moon, we're friday. We think you're going to kill us What do you mean he's away you're the behaviour of the way you look at a sweet, curious or some time, since we think you could kill us, that's what I understood were the rats with the outside world of looking to go one though, and there's another couple, other things are getting a bit later about what happened, but here is under this issue the way we hours people he says. Man can say that they own the rivers, the mountains, the valleys, even the buildings that they built says the air or to see this is, but they don't, but I won't tell you something that's good tell that you're standing up everywhere, you gimme
there's one you he loved me when you call me give give is different than espy. Knowing NGO says everywhere. You are paid for by you by the blood of yours and your friends. This is a new did of your family. You did for me heart so stay for us too. he says have never be, but what you did in your case that you own it so have I can do visit this place right here. Right now is mine. Is, is yours, but this little chair here, that's my nato's than that, but somebody has to tell you so that you do in fact add. Fourth good education told me in any way you know agenda
He gave me so much power when it came back. I didn't fit A russell d c see you was just wrestling I couldn't get. I had to go to add a good five points in the national stew times, but it is one guy. I would have been six the nation, but he ran. I beat a national channels that another guy knows, but they wrote me off and actually My wrestling coach talked to his guys. When that happens, I just couldn't let that mexican kid beat this kid right. Alright, I understood that no big jump, I'm a frogman. You know I fought for my country when not if you know. I I just words in their party tommy.
When I went hunting with them when term later, as a man we killed in Elk, as his back was probably that later And we were getting him offices guineas sir, hunting. Is you go over the ridges and mr down an Elk and I'll kill him? Sorry, some of their work in upon his renee We want money. My mom was more. Let him go, but she said this. It would have good because with me, I'll give it goes with you sudan. I don't wanna go says you you go and me is So it does me disorder. You go up on top, he says you chase down the organ, I'll, kill him and will be sorry So I'm up there hump and I'm like forty seven years old. I could fill my heart you're like when you're an ambush or something like that, and you feel your heartbeat and in your head your neck. He knows I'm thinking, I'm gonna have a heart attack.
Appear, among does not come on, appeared you're gonna find me a vagabond. So anyway, I came down and he was driving he had so I got in here. I put my weapon here, you're supposed to have your weapon, but where you're hunting right with you. So when you drive, so I wonder if jones truck as soon as they get hold the door and heard the sound man. Somebody's shooting at us went right over my head tube and I said, what's going on as oh promise, whatever is happening, they're shooting at us and then grabbed his weapon. Someone shoot somebody, you just don't know noises there's the Elk is come in this way. So instinctively I drew up, that's gonna to shoot what do you know? No noise, that's my gun and where we were
with my dad. I said that I don't want to go and he says the I'm just going to be with you. No no, no you've got to have in case you get hurt. Somebody got a gun, so all right, so he he locked and loaded the round. For me, I shoot clipped him like this. I took the second and then I was locked, laudanum run it next. Sam's is run and after this help hinder. I heard my dad deserves geniuses shoot him again. that no, no, no it'll give you a fall, he'll fall and when I got there, the Elk fell- and I looked at him and yelled goes, and I felt the spirit it was like they saw him die. You know that he needed anything since vietnam right and you're, like sometimes when you see those guys in there they're gone when you, when you know that the spirit was there, but god
it. It was like that again, those aren't flashbacks people go away, had a flashback to vietnam in those early stimulations. You know where you know you're at you. You have a choice of doing what a lot of guys bullshit themselves out there quit on themselves. They give themselves and out of being responsible for themselves. So I think right- and so I looked in- I'm standing there in my day comes up behind me and I had my h harness when my keyboard and He says you're gay and I turned and looked at my dad. He goes she's not okay, says give me your knife says: go, get the truck the little bag that had the hatchet
the and the knife in the bumps on all the stuff he's flat. So I go to the truck I get to the truck and I'm like shaking like disgust. Oh man got, you know, wait what what am I doing here? Why did I even so? We grab a good truck. I come back over to him. My dad looked comes over to him and he looks at me gives me a hug got me like this, while the knife, with the blood of like this good shit, she says, looked at me and he says forget that vietnam bullshit, so I need you to help me right now. Hold the legs. Some holders legs re. Were this place Rinaldo
of his own and the like a pasture right where they cut the the stuff down. Right of mom stubble operative depleted a region like abalone it right and it was a pretty flat place, but that's what it looked like and I could hear isn't like whoop, but I could hear them in in the heart of my mind, thinking and shaking, and so then we get him up and everything he caught sheets gun is, but it comes out. We load him in the truck we take up again in the top mandates. The case is now we pray, it keeps the liver too. You know an indian way. So we praying you guys my hair
since heavenly father. I thank you. I thank you that my son is with me and I thank you and you give this Elks life to bring him home to me. It's, pops bad come on. You know, so then that night I couldn't sleep isn't like a little tear teardrop man is freezing in their right were called me dad's, rather lay back and sit down and say I'm going to get outside. So I went outside and looked up at the sky and up in just two times. I've seen it once when I did it american sweat with a guy that was a vietnam vat and invited me to be part of the american indian veterans of colorado. His name was Wendell irving. When the greatest honours, my life, there was beginning of me stepping out of all that to pray. In vietnam and in losing myself
losing the humanness than I was in and that peace that young boy being revealed right. I looked up and aware how oh man got this. These two words is honey just too much and then again in this spirit, the same way, those mountain spoke to me and said, will be your friends forever and the way the porn loma says, I'm with you in that the way to vietnam, I heard him say This really is like the same way that I gave that life to bring home to your father. I gave my son's life to bring you back home to me, was the beginning of of the spiritual thing. You know I I I knew I'd and accepted cries and all that kind of stuff, but It was different because then it was blood again like the world vietnam bled again, as does the blood sacrifice of things, changes.
if people knew what war was, what the blood was like. The prevailing in ukraine right now, they know americans don't know when they'll, kill guys in the in you know the the ghettos or whatever over meaningless stuff right, because you want you want your car or you or you want is whale tail right. I am right now I'm and I am joining in the whale right now Guess I'm trying to sort things out. Where am I going with this. Twenty five years, women good for the next twenty five years where, where am I going? This is part of that challenge. This is part of it and where does that come from comes from being a fragment because we're not being afraid of being coal hate. It more than anything, but afraid of it. I am an item you
People some not afraid to die either you You're not gonna know until somebody is there to kill you the reality of thy. Look at the issue of the enemy, guys, we're They're gonna go out. There One thing that a mere, but all of them is going out there doing. it's going to no, not the cats around out either in the arena that only in there, getting there s kick them even though they are, which is the that has enough. That's gonna, pull them out. That is, Can it be ego that pulls amounts can be the heart to pull. Some of those are the two champions as with all the town in the world. He kicked shit out everybody, but it, but it is hard. right? Man? It's an ego music, isn't? and person. I was angry gay. One time I said look in the mirror and gone so deaf with mine and then When you have kids, I can.
See I can see so the guy was with the treaty and the young seal man. What do I do How can I do? This is still of my babies. Little kids bearing up did sit there and hold my babies. Burying is one of the bad news in the valley. One of the nicest scale even meet him very, not it a to metre of teams of He's with crowded heno- and this is bigger. So my puffs gave it to me both great me when rustling in high school my suddenly. He didn't go, see me and now and then one day ass dry told me, if you go to a wrestling camp, I get to lift weights and this and that might use some protein makoto wanted me to do this stuff. My dad says: well, I dunno,
daddy's. I got your job in view megan of monies young gaudy rustling camp. This is now shut up, Need your beans right, don't do it as always my job is hanging drywall sarsnet, yea pounds, man hanging drywall with grown men, I had to get an a on a scaffold. I mean a horse to get on a horse to hold that up, but there was nobody ever wrestled that was stronger than me and so all their prepared me for the teams ruin. should hang it on the on the bottom rung of about a helicopter in the and a five hundred feet. once you training right through buds train. We did the job on the home country and pick up, hang it on and no big, no big deal. You know that how'd you get there it's each of those little life like things in her annoying that
to balance of my ass. You do and dropped pick up with them. It. They will tell you about what that is, and I'm sitting there going do you ever do drop and pick up there. You know they don't do. It more, but I do yeah well, there was the east coast. Guys taught me how to do that stuff. Just sitting there just jerk garrison where you gotta be swimming backwards. These are all really and they were teaching them to do that. He was chicken, I hope so he says yeah. It says it's going to look like the buckskin hitch, but don't stay there until the full year. So I'm like this bullshit, you know stroked out. The vote goes by. She found comes back into ramekins espinosa, don't move who yeah tebow he takes off comes back. I swear he's gonna hit me against
then the third time he didn't see, and he just turns around and comes already gone this coming at me. It is really coming along kinda glad he ran over me with that bow boom in my face pieces hanging down and stuff, and then he pulls by last time. He grabbed me when that boat got me hooked. Hooked up, He threw me all the guys ducked his flavor from the boats about this bigger he's everybody's duck and I floated through the air and I caught the other side and never ever never ever missed the pickup So what you do in a graduated from college, then you wrestled all all your years of college. Yet arrests of four years gaullist clarified qualified nationals two times and then it was like bread Each was the sheriff and What am I gonna? Do I'm going to ask me?
tea schoolers? Do my professional your teach in school and his kid comes up, and I was with my mentor, my proctor, and he says you see this kid walks out of the classroom. He says: hey get back in class, good, looks and says: fuck you I'd like that you're know, he walks. I said hey. What would you do that sit down. Oh man says you can't as he can grab it. Sticking logger, those ignoring all you can do that those arrest you well, I'm not going to be a teacher and I graduated as what am I going to do. I didn't want to teach school so badly. She was the sheriff and he says uh. How would you like to come onto the police depart? it says in will start die rescue team since you're in the teams you can shoot and stuff, and do that so it was like come down to the polygraph gimme that he'll tests, I did everything polygraph the drug thing. I just wanna see you re
as you ever done, any drugs of growth What do you mean? You know it clarifies you know they get those in vietnam yielded speed and they kept awake all night. The only thing that ever done in may be done in mexico little bit white pills just a party for the we get better so that workers smoking gas. I did so. How do you justify? Well, if you take a lid like this and you smoke it and you share with people you accidentally smoke about that much maybe quarter of a lid. Other than that. Did you do any more drugs? Is honour hook, pass that so then, proudly Oh yeah, I says you, your goods is, will come on we'll get you they carry me, give you a gun and you can. This for sheriff sheriff and I went less okay, so go sunday, go to sleep. Wake up. He was like wait, a minute. He no way. I can be a cup I can take care from a thirteen year old kid
kill. You mean I'd fight, gazed at the bar right, but if I'm going to be stopped If somebody can you're going to pull a gun on me, I'm going to kill you, so I can't do that either. So then the fire department came up, so it couldn't be a cop couldn't be a teacher There was a further there's, a movie called come fu and was a grasshopper stuff, his cane leg, everybody. Border was, can like a high. The essence of life. I been know kinds of lane. I could pick up on chicks right and talk to people and and and going to you know and in school. It kind of sounds like What am I gonna? Do so then they were have an affirmative action, hiring for people of color right. Two hundred people are higher one guy on fire department. I don't know about it. Miss Martinez whose
When my mom was going to kick the shit out of calling me father father, I she calls and says either hiring firefighters in boulder are going to hire once once you try it. Some like sea, air land and fire four elements of life. You don't like the directions, saw these new means of coming together and I was really getting sensitive. Is this how most became a buddhist? You know just thinking about all that stuff here, so I said: yeah, okay, I'll, try it so I did and I was ruslan. It see you right now run in fifteen miles united action as in good shape. Anna. At the time it was push. Ups, sit ups, chin ups and all that kind of stuff. So I kicked everybody, but on their right had afro. My mustache yoke is ahead of us. You know you gotta, look cool up, you know it's the whole hippy looking thing rank he saw,
I do the interview and stuff like oh yeah, you release seal. What was that this is what narrowly I suggest you get to work Aids were swimming chunks. Discount hung out on the beach instead of with red boats. Ok sets navy lcd. I didn't tell him what they were know what the teams were. You know I did have a jacket. Had you d t on it, because seal team didn't have a, but I had a uti t patch right, like my fire. Now it's all gone but oh away hitchhike home from the navy willing. You got out when I got out nobody picnic as I want to know what they fought for two ladys pick me up into mexico. These other mexican guys pick me up. No wonder frisk man, my thirty ignore back and I they bring me, but as it did in the back of the gotta pull this thing zeal gig eyes, everybody out of but I didn't they went together or in colorado. Coyotes words were stuck in me. Nothing among
combating in vietnam, won't get eaten by the damn coyotes. Then again, oh jack, trailer! doctor and only that I a cow he's. Gimme right into cholera and say that I got home from the name made. so said, yeah I'll. Do this took the interviews and everything so yeah, but you got that stuff. There boy you know white haired, guys blue? I do know that from Nebraska, and so I'll, just try a survey shaves off I mean my hair has been cut shorter. I can shave my mustache on that. Okay, so I show up- and I was drinking in almost all are still here. As I was gonna. Do you know I going to posttraumatic stress when you look at the behaviors now I know I was wrong. Behaviors, our drinkin fightin.
at the home. Ninety racism, sexism, unum scooter, guys, whatever I'm telling you about finalize yourself as a frogmen in you you're, pretty clean about who yours rate, but then, when you don't fear, you don't feel your feelings are bringing all the stuff back that the socialization peace, because that's easy to fall back into great, so the fire department as low this guy says: you're good, No, you belong says we're gonna get along fine on this department right it without for about, while five months. Peter ass drinking. resorted to beginning. I I lacerated my liver, three holes, my duodenum- I got this. This cut here have one down my leg: less real liver referendum, motorcycle drinkin, going back over the denver
winning cool about those guys was recovered, because I had no sick obligation, we worked every other day for three days and we are four days so if you'd have ten days off, you had an offer a month, so twenty guys She had recovered for me and I paid, though, shifts back one but back to work. But I kept my job. So I'm gone was pretty cool we get up at seven o clock in the morning. Seem things waken up seven night if you're drunk and they really dating has got a collapse of shit from sick, hey. Are you calling in sick they go or you're on a four day. You don't come back and that's. Where do I go back three more days off? so I'd use all my sick, my vacation, there's times I wasn't coming to work mean it is hard because he was so free. I didn't have structures structure and even when I was rustling in college, my rustling coach. I want to go back to the time to go back to war. I'd be dead,
can smoke a cigarette in a bar and said, hey man. I will let you know and leave, shall we wilson olympic champion, you see? What goes is if you want to quit after. The team. You can go son of a gun. so I didn't quit. I struggled to the less. They struggled newsstand college because it quickly, I couldn't let them let myself down to let them down, because I never put anything in my life. I saw. So how long did it take like at as a fire fighter at what point did you see to kinder figure out maybe all the stricken wasn't so good for you, maybe that your hat stuff. You need to sort out. I were words rain alone. Among the first far call I go out for a cup of coffee down,
we go out. Gonna call: is this guy trap like this? in a vehicle or the building in a vehicle car wreck? So I'm looking I'm like what do I do. This is here to hold those good so we're doing. Education will tell you what to do. Car catches on fire open up, I'm like all so sooner watching this guy in their turn. Get him cut open his stuff in, and I remember it had to do any more than I'd had, It advocates a diuretic so anyway, I took a cup of coffee right first cup of coffee, you answered there, get a call, I put it down, we take off. watching this guy and all I could think of what I was watching was like it won't, is written fuckin die because I know you're gonna die, a coffee is getting cold hell. That's where I was. So they can have a partner died ass. We go
I could give him a cup of coffee. Take a ship, it's cold in a wet okay. What's happening with. What's happened to me when my dad told me he says so, get the human being right and I saw this go down and I had no feelings. Nothing is like getting disconnected over over in vienna, get disconnected the space and time they're. Not discharging innocuous win, we need very, was indiscreet charging anymore. I wasn't crying, I wasn't laughing, it wasn't mean even now, Sometimes some kids, you see when Mr Espinoza really doesn't have a sense of humor, because sometimes I don't you know even on the when I look at somebody a nato via these guys, trying to kill me, you know, but so it was like ok, that was the thinking about it.
I became very best friends with extending billy doran. He was an air force. Guy he's a fire fire, so as the gun on the fire department. They told me you remember where you belong in this and while they can stuff and then about the fifth year, I met four years because it was easy. I asked good how's getting pay good money has been most my money on a bar tap at by and for everybody enough I was even taken vacations. How does use in my time and drinking in fighting whatever agenda I was not happy scare like. What am I doing here.
So then there was a training fire. I was the second guy, as I was, was the third engine to go in and do this training fire. So the training fire is at they set a building on fire. That's going to be demoed or something like that, so he was just taking advantage of a building. we demoed what they were doing as they smoke training in the smoke training. There was a new lieutenant, so this older lieutenant was trying to trick let's see how I kind of macho man he was he was. We could really fight fire. What can smoke usury was. I was another station, Billy doran and so the young kid had one month on the job. While, if you tyres its hydrocarbon the temperature, In this chicken coop over the period of dumpsters through further evolutions, it happened in that same building it lower. de flashpoint right. So one point it ignited. Killed builder and kill the other kid the lieutenant there was, in charge. Here but some burns. The lieutenant there was in charge of the engine company. Eighty eight percent,
whereas on his by so he died. you got burned up and Billy died in for me, You can like theirs There's something was going on to because I was pretty violent in previous when, when that happened, I got fed up with everything right in so one day I know I know I felt about not having any feelings billy duran getting killed, always piteous bullshit, those like, For instance, a black. I was working with a girl. sitting there and they get lucky that has little were so black. I would add woman why woman, who do you think about that he's right? Think about is issue. Has me working out there were that woman you'd be on the inside. Looking at me and say, look at that guy. What's he doing with a white woman, you know that, when I think about it. Doesn't mean that to me,
and so then it was so then uncut fiddle that wasn't a dive, locker write them doing, diving Canada's trying to reorganise the dive team at my level, one guy was talking, but he had a little booby trap. Cleaning up pity ass bullshit in kind like cleaning up. He was officer set me up didn't clean up the space enough on the engineers room, a slice it went up the officers room he didn't clean it up. He got me for not clean and minds. I got him, but not cleaned up is he's away Did you just clean them as it were? and you just clean. Yours is a matter of fact. I grabbed hold of the door closed. It is what do you do so assume do I meant to you, kicked the shit out of me or I kicked, should shit out, because I'm tired of all your white man, bullshit and all traditional firefighter bullshit. those who whoa wait. Wait a minute go, wait! Weekly! Would you mean as it were you from so often lincoln. Who is your people from all? Were germans says
We raised this and no I so I was raised here by diversifying pecos pueblo, some from us born in colorado. assessing, did you ever kill economy for mommy. It was worth I said: did you ever you ve earned a military Javert killer commie from Armenia? Oh no! You know I'm not and among the military. As this will then all gimme, this shit about where I belong in order elsie sue, wait a minute, god I don't know, is discovered from as we meet nor is coming from. This is a form of action. Bullshit! That's all you guys are talking about us is an I'm not by an end to it. our frogman, whose we'll wait wait, wait a minute. He says you know, on this word department. If their fires, once you with him, because you're good firefighter astrogational you're good? good it extrication. They want you with them.
they go into a bar fight. I go into the bars they watch wooden because you know most of the guys anyway, in boulder right, pms Oh you know. Ems. And they can count on you on the engines says, but there's more to being an all round firefighter and you're not doing it. What the hell is that, since coming in long time coming to work. Not being suspension and not being hung over. Oh man, in my mind I heard my dad say: gibbey.