Mrs jock gas number three sixty three with echo charles in me, jack a willing good evening echo good evening all commanders should consider the professional development of their subordinates, a principal responsibility of command. Come anders should foster a personal personal teacher student relationship with their subordinates Those are expected to conduct a continuing professional education programme for their subordinates, which includes Ella military judgment and decision making and teaches general professional subjects and specific technical subjects pertinent to occupational specialities? You useful tools for general professional development who'd, supervised, weeding programmes, map exercises, war, games, battle, studies and terrain studies.

Commanders should see the development of their subordinates as a direct reflection of themselves. Finally, Every marine has a basic responsibility to study the profession of arms on his own, a leader without either inch, dressed in or knowledge of the history, the fury of warfare and the intellectual content of his profession is a leader in parents. Only self study in the art and science of war. Is at least equal in importance and should receive equal time to maintaining physical condition. This is equally true among officers. After all and officers principle. Weapon is his mind.

And that right there is little excerpt from the fleet marine force manual. One war fighting a book that was commissioned by general AL gray, the twenty ninth commandant of the marine corps and one of the most iconic. common on the marine corps. First, manuals that we covered on this podcast and what that excerpt describes is an approach that I have tried to take to study war, to study history, the theory of war, the history of war, the profession of war and of met some folks along the way who are also enthralled by this study of history and warfare and one of the most knowledgeable, but I've met is here with us tonight his name is J d jarred J D, baker. He served in the marine corps,

for twenty one years as an instrument, a sniper, draw instructor senior lift enlisted adviser in a bunch of different billets. The war zones around the world and is here with us tonight to shit. his experiences and lessons learned with us J d. Thanks for coming by man thanks for me on. Let's get into it man you ve got. So much knowledge that I want to squeeze out eu and we'll get to the end. We will talk about how I plan to squeeze knowledge out of you. I got a whole. I got a whole campaign plan on how to do that, but let's, let's talk about you, where you came from how you grew up. So when we born Sixty nine march, eight nineteen sixty nine in an where Huntington west virginia right on the higher river down south eastern side? So you could basically swarmed ohio and walked to kentucky. That's a pretty good traffic,

right there, the three state triathlon. So what your what your mom and dad do. My mom was a stay at home, my dad. He worked for a nickel plant, a big industrial kind of area down there on the river west, virginia coal, nickel, Our kind of staff and my dad hated his job there yet ty go into work every day same kind of deal, and I was you it'll do as a scout. Major league baseball, so he put applications out all over the place got picked up by the pittsburgh pirates and I got to live out the restless life scouted based what did he do quit his job at the nickel plant. Just put in enough time to to get retirement like as soon as like early retire. So it's kind of like in the military. You just do the twenty years. What

putting on his application to become a major league scout. Why don't you have to spend like time looking at the high schools, then? Maybe you get a community college. Did you go to a regular college? Then you get to go to be a a scout for the pittsburgh pirates. That's a jump out of the gate is not yet is it the big job out. My dad played a college ball marshall. We played a little bit of college ball and yeah in our household. If it wasn't white with little red hair stitches on my dad didn't give tee shirts about it. So basically raised in raised in a by waging a super cool for kids grow up without me and my older brother. So it was, it was short. Baseball he coached baseball, never like coached us why we were playing little league, my dad coach, babe ruth some of the travel teams of legality. Was he smart enough to realise that he shouldn't coach you? He didn't like little kids,

it's okay to me like he didn't want to be the one out there, like you know, clapping for little johnny and Suzie, telling them they're doing a great job. You know what I mean he wanted like the elevate. You know, kids, that are thirteen and above they kind of know that they, they know the basics of the game. Was he doing like weird, subliminal stuff to you when you were little to like? Was you like, throw in the apple to you like ooh? If they judge you on an apple like toss. If you will quick, we gotta catch to work on your hand, diacetyl, like I did that with my kids. I was doing all those weird kind of like this Well, the funny thing is is like both myself my brother. We we throw right, but we bat laughed, and I don't remember ever Like it's kind, learned swam, like I don't remember when I learned swim, and I don't remember

earning how to swing back, but both my brother and I, both bad left, handed, does in baseball. You have an advantage you're already face at first when you get done swing, and so you ve got a drop, you can the first base faster, so it was like kind of thing right there. I bet you dont like no. No, no. You need to stand over here. Body stand over here were arrived. Yeah. I was all out with baseball and courses kid we we love the game. yeah. We played other sports as well, but baseball with water resources. You collect, we play soccer, replay basketball. We give play a little bit of football, but not as much it was mainly. It was based by now You played the other sports all the way through high school or at some point did we focus and disco like its baseball baseball baseball base. It was much like you soccer, was mainly for the running aspect to be prepared, for base pass season

Everything came off of baseball, yo basketball. My brother rustled, as he was coordinated enough to play basketball. So he rustled out yeah. I played basketball love this little thing here for for the wrestlers out there. I gotta say this jeremy stephens near he's at moma fighter and a great dude, but he wrestled in iowa. You know in high school and stuff and in one of their insults they would say if someone came into if they rest, against a guy or someone there was in the wrestling room they be like? Oh how was that I say all he felt like a basketball player, meaning just like we had so where'd you go out there for the rest, the risk, as I can't let it go unchecked that you like to know coordinate enough to play basketball. So we wrestled and said so. I gotta give some prompt to my wrestlers out there. my brother on the rustling team.

of course my older brother and courses. Rustling friends would all come over to the house in, and one of you put the the football player into a pretzel in the middle of a family room on a daily basis. The only thing I liked about it was when we sat at the dinner table. You know I didn't have to cut weight. Oh yeah and my brother is over there just like lettuce. We just shaken the water off and I've got like a big thing, a pasta and just just wolf and it down, so I always felt bad for my brother those aspects but are rustling, it was huge and in west virginia yeah, but at huntington high, where we went to school, coach, archer, legendary, all american wrestler coming out of there. We had smothered the lotto guys we're Russell pan and gave me rustling was huge, so it was it was. It was a real deal. But I was just thankful enough that that I didn't have to like cut way

yeah and the wrestling practices were just brutal. My brother would come back. I mean basketball brackets, go shoot some hoops and play a little one on one was like nothing demanding you and me were lower back then, in the seventies, those you know, tube socks, all the way up. Little short short shorts put on a tank top man are doing that. You watch larry bird magic, johnson kind of stuff, but yeah you play basketball, so yeah. I always yeah the rustlers. That was that was next level you so did so did you did you play three sports in high school then, or did you at some point just by baseball game just be invaded on your dad's plan? Came together, and the other position did you play. I was the pitcher. How tall are you six foot three? I went and talked to the padres a few years ago You know I dont really follow baseball super close when was grown up its like everyone that play baseball was like a little dominican do

Do a little puerto rican dude. You know like little guys and I went and talked to the palm trees. Every one of those guys was a freaking giant human, and I was like. I guess it's a huge advantage. I guessed come back now when they got smaller players, but the huge and its right to be a pitcher and be six three. Oh yeah and you I started. I was a kid I think I was eight years old. For my part, dave we did make a big yeah a lot of birthdays. We just go running to mom and dad's room on your birthday and they'd have a present for you and mom was a catcher's mitt cause. I thought yeah, my dad was ok, he's gonna be the short one, so he'll be the catch. The only my older brother, tommy, he's gonna be the tall wants, who will be the pitcher? My dad was a petri six, but three. I is use of a big guy may not like big unit connachar that We have six seven, six, nine but event, but

at, like ten years old, my brother quit growing and- and I kept growing so then we we reversed, which is traded, met, so then my brother became a catch her, which was thankful for because again, as you can kind of sea with like near the, sk, a ball ass by a culture is a brutal, brutal job I mean, but you control the feel near the leader you're, the only one that can see all a players at one time, but you never be an catcher just yet hot sweaty behind play your engaged in every play out there I'm a brother was really go. My brother was a really good baseball player as a catch her and then for me being a pitcher you, you kind of like the like a basketball. where compared to a rational or your vote, you have yet to take care the pitcher and remains the areas

special kind of aspect of it. So I didn't get beat up as much as my brother, What school are you doing all right in school? As far as like grades and everything, do you cares? It's like no big deal. Are you getting into trouble? What's going on with your your youth, yeah school, pretty much yet terrible terrible. The Cool sang in school was, in in the first grade life. My first grade teacher was missus. Go and miss going cool thing about it is I'm friends with her on facebook even still today, which is like super cool with social media to be friends with miss going, and she made us do a book report and probably the biggest impact she had on me with she. Let you pick whatever book. She didn't like a sign, a book to make us breed something specific. You get to pick whatever you want it. May I did my first,

book report on babe Ruth the new york yankees. Obviously we had a lot of baseball, both in the house of just lying. Around everywhere. So she allowed me to write my first book report and then just to have a love of reading. It doesn't matter what you read just read so after that I always enjoyed reading as a kid, but I love Jim class. I like recess, I like to play. You know what I mean whatever the game. Is it doesn't matter? I I enjoyed playing the game and, and and That was always pretty. He was pretty liberal with the aspects of your boys we boys kind of aspect, but my dad was a mathematician, so he loved math so and I'm the complete opposite. I I don't like math I'd rather the liberal arts, the history, the reading the books and stuff so yeah. We we

up enough to play sports Jake. I have to point out play ball, says If you are above a two point. Oh my dad was like. Well I'm good with that arena yeah, I wasn't an honor society are holding candles, seven photos taken in school, but I had a lot of fun. Great great childhood. You got an a in recess, lunch gym, class and fun knocked out the park in all those areas, and then yeah, where were? I grew up probably another big aspect. of my life was at eight years old. My dad sent me to camp now. This is a camp. It's called camp wallower tool in its in middle borough springs from genuine bath counting on the couch pasture river.

My dad went to this camp and it's kind of like hogs worth you know like the harry potter stuff, where they would take us to the train station in Huntington and you'd. Have your your big big luggage and you'd get on a train and we would take the train to clifton forge virginia, and the counselors would pick us up from the train, though all of our luggage in there and take us out to camp while or two alone, the calabash river for seven weeks living in tents, and it was like I loved cap, hot neo, you'd, shot twenty two years, if I was you shot bow and arrow canoeing swimming horse backing ensuring leap identifications, not tying all these kind of things and it was a camp. or to allow any. I had begged my parents to go at eight,

zol because normally had to go when you were not, but my older brother went and when we went to go pick up. My bra and I got to see this camp. I was like all this is this? Is it like? So we we spend seven weeks every summer on the calabash river at camp, which had a huge effect on the rest, my life for me to go into a break orbs like going to camp, I go to. Italy joined the amateur. He cab, you got activity that every year for like until you are, how old till I was fourteen and then dont shorten the family that own the camp that it like a set. My dad went back that he had. two sons and nobody wanted to take the camp over. So they basically shut the cap down, but every jew. We have a reunion with all the guy

as a camp wall with all the the the sad thing is it's like I'm one of the youngest of the root of the reunion guys and we go back every june, but being at camp with the the counsellors and you know they had a a a a big effect on me as a kid growing up of like I mean you sat at tables, they taught you your manners, how to eat, how to take care of yourself, basically how to be a virginian and every at the three and at the three mark. They would take us into lexington virginia VM I's there and then they've got the robert e lee tomb. Is there so we would go visit. Robert e Lee so like at the first time at at eight years old, yeah. I remember seeing the robert e Lee, you know: stonewall jackson, virginia all that washington, yeah yeah, for Anyone histories is huge and ethnic

As you know, we had the mandatory like nap time at yale after lunch, you come back and it was like reading reading lay in Iraq a kind of the vat. So here you could bring a book. You could write letters home The letter. Writing really didn't go very well. I think my mom still has the first letter I wrote and it was like dear mom and dad having a good judd it was a debate and but yeah it it that that aspect of of growing up and seeing the mentorship of like the counselors that came into the camp and they. And towards asset you at a very early age in and seen conall like what right look like four going into becoming a man was was a huge, huge aspect that does all boy camp on the island, Boys know there was a all girls can't write down the river called can't much andella still exist today,

and yet we would do like a dance with them and stuff we go up river and and and and go there is nice to see yet young girls cap. So it was, it was fond yeah I mean the capacity rivers Part of my life I mean I've. I've got when I die. I want to be cremated my ashes dont than the cow pasture. We go every year I mean I love the plate, my wife and I Tracy we were married and the cow pasture river, like standing in the river yeah there's a that's a huge tie to me is that river in that part of my life. How far is that river from where you grew up, probably about three and a half hours. Three half hours for hours is over the appellation. It's on the on the virginia west virginia border in bath. County Virginia up in the mountains of their beautiful part.

So were you on track to like go to college and play baseball? Were you good enough where you like was gone out with that? Well, The good thing is, I had my older brother, and so I could come like watch what he did and see his mistakes and try not to repeat because, How'd it go on with your my dad I asked my brother what the w b you know what I mean he was going to try. The college thing, and my brother was, my brother's, alas smarter than I was an, but still he couldn't figure out You have to go to class like get a grade. Did you get recruiting for baseball was plain based bother? he just when he was just just so. Despite the efforts of your dad to turn you guys and a baseball players that could play in college, he didn't he didn't play god, no, if you with my dad's aspect of

he more or less looked at it on the aspects of try to go straight farm league like yeah, I would say that my dad he kind of looked at it like you, can always go to college and you can be sixty years old man. You can go to college and you get one shot to play. ball, and you mean it in you. Try to get in here. If you can get minor league kind of aspects, He always word about. Like a college coach, you mean of their pet agree that mean they they can, they can ruin, they can ruin a guy cause in college. Knowledge? Coaches there too, when he's gonna, throw he's gonna work as much as possible cause. That's his job in Europe. College baseball is necessarily is like a big thing. Like college football, I mean for to play profit wall, you gotta, go to college, you gotta play college ball, you're, not gonna, go direct to wear like based.

All is more of a direct dare cheaters than the griffin snows tonic eyes. You don't go to college. straight to the minor leagues and then you work your way through the minors. As that was more, I would say my dad's gonna take on things was, but your brother, I did go to college yeah. He was going to go to college again. My my brother was real. He was good in school. My brother was a lot smarter than I was. He paid and a lot more than than I did. So we want debbie view but, like I said, he did go to class mine, the college football games or grey on Saturday. I kind of thing I'd go up and hang out my brother in law and he ended up. Ah, you have not met. in the grades and their legality. You can't say school here any more. My brother, the joint airforce eyes I get what europe does. I kept not not I don't want to hang out in the house here. Let's, let's come back, so my brother join the air force and and what are you,

Therefore, he was a work, don't see, one thirties crew chief stop at sea one thirties. He was out of diet taxes. I made it seem like pretty good gig for what he was doing and for me you know when I was seventeen. I played on a couple of travel teams, and We were playing in Cincinnati and therewith with, regardless of of my dad, I love my dad deaf. but his nickname between. Like me, my brethren and we call him the deck It will be good. Operands are like do too must be so cool haven't like yoke. Is my dad's nickname with tee bone setter? We're like dude, it's like so cool. Like you, your dad t bone except really thought my dad was great hero to me like he was at all the games. He knew whether it was football

ask about you name it I mean. Why did they call him tebow just cause named Tom baker. He was six foot three hundred and fifty five pounds. It looked like just a tebow coming off of a steak, and so they called him t bone and everybody thought it was like. The coolest thing was like dude. You didn't live with my dad, of course, he's cool outside a house but step into the house and live with this guy again. It was still is. It was great, but not yet my dad was a maybe even bonnie humorous yeah, but I loved him to death, but he we came back from playing in Cincinnati, ohio and beer, was strolling in a game yo. My dad narcotic got into a little bed at the game. And I was like undone mina. I'm done, I came back. I went straight of seventeen. to the marine corps recruiting office

how'd. You how'd you hear about the marine corps. I had a buddy of mine. Actually I had quite a few friends my way out of our class there's a lot that went in the marine corps. Rick shank was one of his dad was a korean vietnam that he was an army range guy, but you know There was a lot of us. It had looked at the military in a in in a blue collar town like huntington, it's a way out I miss. You get a lot of folks that that joined the the military to get out. You of yemen remain liked at there's something bigger out there. and again, like a said, I loved camp in your I don't have. The latest recruiters are licking their chops they're like oh you like camp. We got camp for camp love, it yeah and they've got activity. They got tents. Give you all this free stuff. You get a gun.

I am so yeah I mean I was, and I was like oh yeah when I, when I came in or I was like, you know telling her recruits. I I've got to be infantry. You know and he's given us to look like. Oh, that that's going to be a I want to get a real life because we don't really know ally and of course I can get you. You know guaranteed that you ever jury if you score high, oh yeah yeah, I'm thinking like this guy's, the he he's hooking us up until I go to book and but then I'm seventeen, so I gotta get a signature, so so you're seventeen you're, seventeen Are you done with high school? I still am. I see you here to go sounds like delayed entry, ok, but I had to get my mom sigh and what policy what was all about she's

get out of, because just gives you that paper. Let me get a lawyer, yeah, yeah yeah. Why even waste your time, which was you know when you look back at like at life of like a decision that you made? That was probably the smartest decision I ever made because I would have been a shit show for sure well Thanks thanks thanks my recruiter. I can remember anything about my recruiter, but I just would like to thank him. Even If the price screwed me over he's, like oh yeah, you're, going to go with the seal team sure but yeah you are, Oh yeah, you when you're you're gonna, make a great seal right there's no way any recruiter knows if anyone has the remotest chance to make a copy ask they'll teach. You seem like the kind of guy it's going to do. Great, like scientists. Peace paper sounds great. You know recruiter, sir, so those guys are definitely how can you up but like that's the same with me that the greatest thing,

probably like you said, the single pivot point of the trajectory of my life was signing that piece of paper and annie up on it, and I remember I signed up for six years. He was six years to get up to get a seal to give buds contract we go about actual. was actually all it was. Was you sign up for six years, and that gives you a chance to the screening tests deposit we passed a possibly go above, that's what it was and any. Oh you you're thinking, you're eighteen years old. Like six years of law as one third of your life farmers income, while whatever rock n roll, was do this, but definitely a pivot point as interesting. Think they got me all the same. Here, but they give you in future a guarantee guaranteed bulgaria clarity, I wonder how many bonus points you got for that recruited, so you roll in there you and list now you're in

you going to have to go to dep meetings your whole senior year of high school or something like that. Yeah yeah, we kind of like meet on the weekends and- and you know, and and go for, runs and stuff like that. So basically you know my senior year was, I mean I think I took like four, Jim classes, because others I'm k I'm done this is this- is what I'm gonna do. So why do I need? I was making play baseball your senior year. No, I quit everything I mean. I I my my dad was not happy was going to say yeah. It was a, but you know he he looked at it, as I don't think. My dad was like a big fan of of me, making that decision of of going in the marines but you know I mean when I remember he took me down here to the recruiting office drop me off as it were a ship like three days after graduation like the recruited

was standing at the graduation when I walked across and I got the piece of paper yeah they gotta like take it to make copies either. Oh he's their ability to xerox machines, and the funny thing is there's like six other of my classmates that are just as stupid as me, and we're all going to bootcamp to get Wichita kind of made it fun yeah. So I'd like ricocheted, can carry nestler, like literally in the same recruit platoon his kid. Yes, what kind of fallen. where would you see in the drill instructor qana gift, give them a ration and you're over there trying, not the laughter like what's going on in their doing the same thing to you. So it was. It was kind of nice. Like us, I was colic gold camp. have some, my friends there that I'd known since you know I grew up with them. and then there was a you know, so it was. It was cool to have. You know a couple of guys that I went to school with and ran around with a lot in my recruit platoon, but

didn't realize I, and we were all guaranteed of crete, bow Maybe I don't make smart come, not conduct in virginia recruiters Bobby gesture, we love in it. So until we like they're they're, announcing like your military and, alas, at the end of the scene, droll shark, stana, berries, I get baker, infantry, yearnings like don t worry yourself, gotta stupid, but go back. I like, I didn't really know like. There was other jobs like in the mines, because I knew let go navy dark. We get a lot of our staff from the navy ya thought, like everybody went the marine corps to be infantry, india, you, you got culture, every marina, riflemen to you as the facts. You get an idea, every vote. I was boot camp when you showed up. Was it like a shocker? We? U, like holy shit, o just like cake camp. Let's do this year,

of course you know the the shock and all of you and they bring em what to paris island when I flew out of out of the huntington nights, the tri state airport of what they call it, and that was the first time. Ever been to an airport and I love you know the history of huntington of martial university. You might have seen the we are marshall plan, team. Seventy plane crash that answer History yo They tallies, and that was at that airports.

at where I grew up. The the whole marshall university in that plane crashed nov, fourteenth nineteen seventy yeah every year. In Huntington I mean it is a it's a big deal for that Marshall Marshall plane crash had young kids that I went to school with that. Their parents were on that plane and it devastated the community in huntington, And- and here I am going to the airport, yeah and and- and I was like why why can't we just like take a boss, it's south carolina man, you know what I mean like. Can we just say it was one of those props. It's got like the the little curtain, the the the pilot like puts luggage on, and then he takes the and with tat over there to the side and remain and were to end, that almost stop me from going to boot about males like this is ridiculous man, a wire we fly and and got down there and then they bring you to night here, see you

don't really know like where you're going and it's you're coming on to paris, island. Of course you hear all the mystique of paris island and, of course you remember. Full metal jacket had just came out when you and I were in high school. So of course you know that dudes like a stand up comic, the only that movie was how layer asked me and and Let me say that with the drill instructors are that there there stand up comic summit, some of this stuff that they do is just. it's saturday night law, but it's like eighteen hours of sire. I live David you're, getting the the end of the journey, the butterfly yet you're, the boss of all the jokes, but it was still. There was a it was the shock and awe, but then once we kind of got into the rhythm of of of boot camp, then you have to instructors winners, as is eighty seven asia, a set of yet by june, so you ve got It's until the wintertime make mega low but more pleasant down there. But yes, we

ended up there in june graduated in august, the of three months down there and then dear straight off to our camp. Went up to camp geiger, where the after school was at the time and went through yo, effigy training, schools o three eleven. You made it power how do you never made it how's that how is that introduce school, again you kind of looking back on. I it's it's it's so many like new marines common. In that you don't really, I get a lot of that individual education. How long was the school? I think it was like ten weeks, maybe did you have vietnam, guys teaching you or not, really the some of them

older, like the east, evans and aids that were there were vietnam air guys. But you know like that what you would call like a year, the troop handlers or more like the corporal and sergeants time. So those guys if you come in and like the early eighties, I'm what air, but the senior folks yeah they were. They were vietnam, vietnam, air guys, did you Thank you are going to war at some point. Yet no never really even like crossed my mind, you at the point you know when I got morality. We had like when you and dave we had day bark on. you were talking about like the top gun. When we grew up. I was more. The john Jay rambo gonna, like and John Jay kind of turn me on more than like tom cruise,

well yeah for sure it's you know I mean I couldn't relate to tom cruise yeah. I wanted like the green odi green jacket. Wear jeans boots get a big knife with a like accomplice on the top of it. You know what I mean with matches in it and you know it. What to be dear, John Jay, So now you know those eyes, Acts of it now were pretty interesting because you have like a global perspective of the world and think. Well, you know it's the you know the cold war when on you know, this could kick off. Did you do you have any Thoughts like that. Yet the outskirts, acres I'd? We know I join in aid Ninety. Now what change? For me was that the gulf war was starting right so, when I came in it, was like a war going on. I remember watching cnn and cnn in saying: there's gonna be something like thirty.

one thousand casualties in the first forty eight hours on our side, and I was like oh bro, we're going like. I was thinking. It's on I'm going to get the film for sure in the once that was over. It seem like weird, I just seemed like. Well, I'm going to be doing some kind of secret she has caught on. You know, like the tips come on we're doing stuff worldwide time this secret missions going on I'm obviously gonna, vietnam and fight and whatever John Jay, rambo style, that's done but but go in the marine corps. Nineteen eighty seven world is pretty pretty peaceful at that yeah you in the marines we had one of the corporal that was there that was at the infantry scuba, Beirut guy see you know like back then like Beirut was light, which was as for the marine corps that that incident in, and so that was Karl, you beirut in granada

We're pretty much like the only two things and if you weren't with like a specific one battalion. Then everybody some were marine corps. You know they just had the overseas deployment ribbon with the good conduct, That's it! You know what I mean there wasn't any like salads hanging out, except for the you know. the beirut guys and then, we say that my first but high and I got sent to a second, the tiny marines and it was on camp geiger and all I did was was but my c back on my back and face to the right. We just walked down to the eighth marines. Barry and it was open squad by that wait. That's what your first assignment was that second battalion eighth marines that was on camp geiger was the eighth marine regiment was on geiger. Everybody else is on main side camp lagoon and I was open squad back. So was a lot of people talk about like being in hopeless, but I loved, open, squat bay was camp,

It was more care what you mean. I got up there a yo yo and you really get I know like the guys in the platoon, but Because of the open squad bay, I mean there's no hiding from anybody. It's always at the end of the day, you go to your barracks room and you shut the door and it's just you and one other guy in the open squad bay. People can walk through at any time. It's all your stuff, expose. You get a foot locker and a wall locker and that's it so you didn't really like nowadays, like kids, move into their rooms and they got tvs that god xbox. I got all his cousin. We couldn't have that stuff, because one tv and the duty and seo control panel. It was on but yes it was it was. I was pretty cool on those aspects and then issues got site with tiny raise my first. My first training up was coelho training up a bridge for california, article which was banging

I mean they got ski lift up. There were ski. Of course. I was the first time like these ski uphill, like whether pack with That soccer is cool, though yeah whatever like. I wanted to go to lake tahoe and do some downhill and then, of course, you to marine corps with arts. Mountaineering skis are low as bitter, so it's like to buy for strap with me with a boot band wrapped around your mickey mouse boots and you're going to at downhill with ninety pound rock on and a rifle hanging off the front of ya. That was the only point that but I was really excited that I wasn't a machine gun You heard me like skin with her with a machine gun. it's whole another level. And how long were you at two, eight four. I was at two eight fur, I stayed from just at the end of eighty seven right into eighty nine. You did years. this is your first assignment yeah. Yes, my first the tire,

you do, did you go and appointment for as we did like bridgeport. Thank you. Do you do like your work up? Did you do you work up as you go like get on a boat and go on deployment to mad or something like that that well, we actually did westpac because we came in flew over to oki and then my first. boat ride was on the USS fort Mchenry. which you know as a as a kid in camp. Like I read, like you I enjoy reading and in books on adventure yeah. I mean- and I always thought like like what what I look like: a navy ship, it's kind of like being in huntington, wash Virginia, it's a blue collar community the float. So these are like all we got like in the navy like they. They got guys that like have jobs, they do stuff diesel mechanic. Yeah yeah made it in like we're in the pacific. You know what I mean.

Just like it. You get to see how small you actually are, but you know being with the the navy: at marines still have a job on a boat in a week we get up, we are, replace a duty. As in the rack, we stand in chow line a lot the aoda mate is like get done with breakfast. What are you going to do? I'm going to wait for lunch and wait for long stand in line and sit there with a book, and when the navy gets pissed off that the marines are laying around all over their stuff, they call general porters and we go to the rack and india and they go to work better yeah, I was always intrigue with the navy, like and then just a global of travel and like a navy ship captain always that seem like a super cool job have been a aboard. A shoe. And it's so blue collar. I mean the guys in the navy aboard the ships. You know we floated gator navy put that they were like soup.

Great guys. They all had skill set from electricians too If laundry, the cooks that mean they just it was, it was like being in pittsburgh. Yeah yeah, except everybody, doesn't have a mullet or me they got a haircut and it's like you're afloat with a blue collar town and it was a. It was super cool which korea it will remain so, and I was one of the things that intrigued me about just joining the marines was, I was going to get the travel and get paid like you know what I mean to go to cool places and so yeah, going to korea, goin to japan, philippines, yo, those kind of aspects and I'm getting a paycheck at the single exercises, their real language, evil spirit, all those little names or they have for staff, because you were fight niven, so everything's and Ivan, and we just we go out. We we go to the. field. We run exercises we come back and then we get like girl flight for five days off.

An eighty eight the olympics were in Seoul korea, so that was so. They were there for that. Likewise guesswork, security, anything or now or no nah area. With the marine stay down in pole, hang right outside poetry and it was called, can't move shock. We called mud chuck still barn and shutters there. I mean it was primitive, primitive, camp- is where you guys window when the ship, I pulled in that's where you went. Yup navy would kicks off. You know what I mean and we'd go into to camp my chuck and We go into their, but even then they had ranges. We would you do company exercises battalion exercises grenade street riflemen and a platoon, but straight rifleman, just that's it riflemen. gushing you, John rifleman love, It's like be arrival, but with you just get a rifle

I was. It was super yeah. It was super cool, the guys in the platoon yeah. You got all these different characters just from all over that just make things it's like so interesting. Just you have here and the stories in their background where they grew up. You know, and and you know, then we didn't really intermix a lot with like the partook manner. You ain't like arm, biggest eyes, usually like your squad leader, because he can what your life and then the platoon sergeant is a big role. And like the lieutenant you'd like see him like formation or something remained because, like you, didn't stay in the same yo officers segregated out of yemen. Then you just what we get there sell block remain of like war were, hang announced, bang went back when the marines had dean have named tags on their uniforms like what's your name, my name is corporal

If you can call me marine, if you want, I wrote deployed on ships cause, I I did a few deployments. Why did three deployments on ships with marines and one with the carrier strike group but yeah the marines were just another I have to tell the story: we you know him. And to get off the ship, when you Then, when you hit the peer cause, the sooner they rang the liberty bell ever was in line to get out. Now like an hour or more to get to get through. That line so we used to ship poles in, gets pure side as soon as they call for liberty, we'd go the jim and get a good work out. The ships not move in there's no one in their conference, trying to go on liberty. So as one time we do that you'll get dont, go, go work out on take a shower put on our liberty. Close it's been like an hour and a half and we go up to the quarter deck to leave

and they're carrying a fake marine back to waste. He got wasted in an hour and a half. He was unconscious, drunk bro, that's how hard it was going to pay. So that's you know good it's rink or that's, usually, every every poor guy made somebody's gonna ruin it and in it, the thing I used to always tell them ring. I mean it's almost like being in jail like if you go to the first port call and you You're done training in the first hour and a half, and then you get restricted to the boat for six months of restriction. Minutes mean now that's a sentence. Everybody else is like hidden it and about it. When you would You mean you keep everybody you cage top down, Erin cell block and your cross in the pond, and then you you hit this liberty port in europe like may familiar. you're, eighteen, nineteen years old in,

your your legal drinking age everywhere in the world, but here are your own domain and and a court and you've been in like training, so you know through boot, camp and FG school. So it's not like. You can't have beer in a barracks, because I lived in an open squad bay, so it wasn't like we even had refrigerators yeah. So any chance you guys spent like two and a half three years living in an open bay. Barracks yeah, oh yeah, visa loved it I mean we used to like take the wall, lockers was all grey water and put them up against the walls, and you know, and we would play hardball baseball like cars break any moves like just the ant that went on, and you know dont really bad. You know I back that you could still smoke. The government areas and even on ship by me, I remember being on the boats and just like you'd go in to the to the cell block area where the marines are down there and they're, just like that or smoke across the top, but you guys just laying around with it like coke. Can

like an ash is that it was just a different different world. you did you know you're, like do you found your place when you got the marine corps like others, is I'm I'm good. I've got my job forever yeah yeah I mean it was like oncologist. The camp for the rest of my life. In the funny thing was, as you know, we you talk about our grey This is eighty seven. He began, the commodore while I was in boot camp. So may you talk about just that, a different kind of guy, of our grey, I mean is what a lot of us consider these second enlightenment of the marine corps, and this guy is all about edge, asia is all about. He wants a university, yeah. I may I give it probably the coolest story of our great unmet him and eighty nine that first but

six marines were looking for folks to do contingency operations in panama, Noriega was run in the joint down there. So I to a joint. On six to be the go? Do continually operations in panama? May I thought one panama trip, canopy jungle, it's gotta be cool, I mean and it was just another experience to be able to do so. What the want sex and- and I was down there and waste at the rodman naval air force naval base down there right on the canal. He had a howard air force base it's down there and then the marines operated out of what was called the air han tank farm, a kind of look like if you flew over top of it. It looked like a golf course cut in the middle of the jungle, What was all like? The the tanks for refueling come through the canal,

and just seeing the panama canal was like the greatest engineering like I had ever seen like before, as it used to be. the panama path they just walk across as it was the skinny as point and the watch, the locks and ships come through. The canal was just amazing. Seeing over a nineteen year old kid like seeing the panama canal and yo of reach, about it? It was just. It was an amazing experience, but we would go out You are like a sixty rotation and yet you two days and in the fog which was just out, the middle of the jungle was the fourth operating base and that you you two days on patrol and then they bring you back for two days in the rear, and you were just on this rotation and I was just a company, a marines down there. Wasn't it the navy seals were down area? They had army folks down there. but that was our assignment and I remember our gray, we was to combat,

and I was in the fog and in certain in the fighting position, we had fighting positions around airsoft man and five positions meet me and one other guy and he tabs going down. It's getting dark and we kind of can see like this entourage of people milling about the area and it just that it's not making too much sense of like like who, this one. Actually you know this older guy. I mean it's dark out. I really don't know who it is hops down in the in the in the fighting position with me and he's like hey who are you? I was like the nice couple: JD baker. You know what I mean and he's like: hey how's things going. I was like who, who are you? What was it AL gray and the name sounds familiar because mean cause like AL gray, was just now operate marine. I mean that's how he went by and he was a prior unlisted, yo apple tree.

I made it all the way to sergeant and I thought he'd make a good officer, so they sent him to cs. I made his way up through the ranks from new jersey. He was a baseball player. So we started asking me just a means of any go on. I just asked me like who were my parents like what you'd? What's my dad, I do what's my mom do kind of like the stuff how you and I, when we first got on just started, asked me those personal questions and when I told her. But my dad with baseball. He was like yo he's he like lit up like cause. He was like you know. I played semi pro baseball in new jersey, they call it. He was called the pow Looking pounder, he was a hell of an looking lb yeah. He played for the pelicans, all semi pro team up there and he literally let years later I was up at his house in Alexandria and he showing me that the front page picture he had the clipping le pelican pounder outbreak. which was pretty cool see, so he a big baseball guy and I and from

being vienna E3. I was the last corporal at that time. With a comment on the marine corps. I have now had a relationship with that guy for thirty five years was just a man was just a different. How did you stay in touch with them, after that? he just how reconnect with them later he's always been around the marine corps like Al Gore ray his own for sure yeah I mean he's just one of those guys. I we could be certain in here. Do in this box ass, an exit he just show is that's how he was like a comedy big to tell people when he was gone places, or maybe just his careers First, wonder: just take his official vote and camus. Ah, yes, the car guy that he was of that really had a had a bigger dawned on me was when he was the common on the marine corps on the weekend. He was out front of his comrades house at eighth, and I

yeah down south east DC and he's out doing the gardening at the front of the house and this elderly, a black woman, lived down. The street was walking by and and chiefs You have stopped and said hello and give our great was. I carry how you do it didn't say he like who he was. She just thought he was. The gardener he's like man. I've lived here is out these. They see my entire life and I've always wondered what it looks like on the inside of that house. So I'll groves, colic, interesting So goes to a staff meeting on Monday is like having a garden party and am inviting all my neighbours so they send out. Invitations to block radius is all around yo. Eighth. And he's invite. Not, of course you he's got staff guy's going. Ok, we're gonna put a rope here. Let's take this thing dynamic as they got a lotta like I just pullers, underwear and air, or something I was about to take

our great like no ads that these are my neighbours like do you like, when your neighbors come over to you put stuff away, do you put ropes up in there? they allowed at certain sections that you're out these are my neighbors and enough money, as his party in the neighbours are all come in and hears that elderly black woman comes in and who is she at the door outbreak. She thought it was the gardener nary a mean when they got there. with the end of that. Not one thing was stolen, not been broken in the marines up at eighth- and I were having any more problems out of town anymore, with the neighbors in and around southeast DC, it was just the extended hand of these are our neighbors and that's kind of sums up of like who our grey is so he a huge effect on the marine corps, just in that four year period of time and I just got lucky enough to to meet him. in panama and eighty nine in just stay

in contact of it in his memories, just like he could remember like exact date, names of the guy's got a funny mental memory and he was self educated. he was the number one thing was: was the library you know what I mean get a book read it and you know now marine corps, has the reading list, which is kind we got a lot of cool books on their own domain, so you go through the different grade levels and give you can get books and and echo, is always really big into their history and big into the reading, which one that fell in love with made love. History love the love the reading aspect of it and reading. If this is gonna, be your trade. If this is what you're gonna do than yet, you need to read a lot of books and

some other officers, dear one air corals, and he told me to cast my net widely, like don't just pigeon hole like just don't read all military me so cast your net widely. So you get a different path. By active on different things, and so that was that was had. That was pretty cool with with Eric yeah and customer. That's all I mean I read from Daniel steel anything that I could get my hands on just to be able to to read and the imagination rudyard kipling Henry David, the row I've read some theoretical physicists, the cork the jag wire, which was ike up, that the coup job to be like a theoretical factors like sitting room. Yes and I just thank for eight hours of staff and the go back. That was that was that was pretty cool

were you: where are you an invasion went down in panama, we, were the invasion? We were back states because we were rotate today, you have you went down on a ninety date or, He did a ninety day and rotated back I was in an eighty nine, but that was also I was up. There was a fire team leader. Nasa was like my fur, ah go around being far team leader in and that was probably my first realisation, even though, like nothing, nothing happened like we didn't get me fights why we were down there. There was events that were taking place to me. Personally, I didn't have any events, but when you get you'd like issued, live ammo and you take the bier Faye off the main. It got real Like then, I was kind of like okay, this this is this isn't like camp anymore, but, like you know what I mean, but

and in canopy down there- and here we want these- two have fort sherman. The army base was down there and you go through jungle, jumble warfare, jungle, survival, a phenomenal place to get out there. They got like this little sue I'll. Show you the animals that you can encounter while you're there did. It wasn't abandonment fence, for that we were scared. It was the creatures in that jungle, like see, unlike the anaconda Uranos, like that, that's a big, that's big snake. I was luckier I when at tilting one we were like the designated southeast asia team and so we are be ready for the jungle on in our platoon work up did ready reply. We went and did like a month in panama. We went to that zoo, all that someone went to that army jungle survive will trade in ivory went through a full scope was a couple

a day and a half or something like this there to be most. Surely what to watch out for all that cost off. But it was awesome, you know them. when we just went out and lived in the jungle for like a month, and we had a little bit camp set up that we go out and do our training throughout the day. We do. We do ok, he would try to night immediately. Controls, which is completely black, is no night vision days, just completely black run into the jungle sending up a loom. you don't hit trees with your uloom by accident, because as a radius, as always, I was always fire and uloom. It was freaking awesome you get you get good when you do when you spend our time and if you ll be good at the end when the three months downer that's were. I would say that I got good being an empty treatment but it was amazing you talk about like you, because when it got dark

it is, and you black would do you remember those do you we had back then the where it like the starlight like the starlight were okay one. It requires star light, yet we didn't even use those down there and then Will you be in the radio operators? I don't live. What you got to remember. We had the seventy seventh prick: seventy seven, the one o force. You know what I mean to wear like you had to be good, He had with skills yeah I mean it's a skill set to run cod like when I look at the communications that these votes have nowadays outside why We are trying to get a calm shot with seventy seven one o four, that's one! The communicators had some serious skill says to be able to to manipulate operate com, especially down there The first time is like being a team which had to do like you know, patrol overlays. So I had to get good at my job.

and in that I would say that that probably was the the pinnacle of like those three months but down there. I that's when I became an empty treatment. That is what we would call a casino three eleven is. Your scout is basically is pretty much what you are and then that had a big effect on me as being a marine of what's important, is as far as like training and education, wise of becoming a professional epic treatment, was really So it's not too long after that that the gulf war starts eaten up the first gulf war.

Yes, that's it we're. How do you know how to slide into that you're out one six now yeah by saying that I and I was in panama worth we got a new potu. Sorry when we came back that guy's name was isla talker. His nickname was eli tuckered, the big mother fucker, because I do with jack to yo domain and just ruthless, but hell live and have a huge impact on me. He was a sergeant ninety five, but that guy it wouldn't when out when you give you got marina fishermen in the dictionary. It's a lie. Talk is in that book is just a phenomenal guy up and down the ladder he pulled, respect from the officers as well? As is any unless an appetite and in so he was my pollutants. Are we were on on deployment again over in the far east and we hope then we were in the philippines, and noriega decided to add on to his yo southern property.

So you may not sit on disaster dominate yes, so he takes over. He goes over. Snatches of kuwait were in the philippines, they focus on the. U s, s broken iowa the open and we stand around and they kick off the boat and wearing country right. they're coming in september, so again went down in august. They had us in we're the first marine battalions they hit the ground, in saudi Arabia and then it was just so You stay there the whole time gas. How long we? How long will you, therefore? seven and a half months. We was terrible. I was living in a tent in the desert. Basically didn't even have the chats yeah. We had those radar scattering nuts kind of thing, so you just do a poncho yeah. We were just for fun, How long did you live like that? We were out there for like over seven months Sarah

I have a cart. You know those little green cars, because the the desert sand was just so hot, but the cool thing was about the battalion. You know what kind of talk about her mamma tank manner was- are lieutenant colonel jounce. His is The initials were t seas. We call him to cool and jones was a phenomenal, take matter jones, with with that he was the kind of guy that he'd like new everybody in the tie new. Where you were fromme, he knew a little bit about use very personal suit. You and I almost like every marine battalions. Their leadership were all vietnam, that's, so they knew what was important of what we need. Did to know there wasn't a unit and then you go up to the regimental level, and then you ve got our gray. Is the commandant that you know you got

storm norman schwarzkopf remain army commander and then joint chiefs. You got Colin Powell o connor right. So it's almost like the stars have aligned, some folks are like. Does storms like like ninety six hours, there's a reason for that because those guys like you were not doing this one again enemy, one, When we re was a long wait. That was a, and would he do it when just training everyday prepping will get trained. Trying on your gas mass drain on your gas mask again. Trying on your gas mask yeah. Did you get where you guys here in this casualty thing that I saw on cnn, like hey, there's going to be mass casualties? Were you expecting that would a briefing you on that yeah? Actually, I flew in a whole bunch of replacements, right price. her to the ground war, kicking off and we're like what are these days doing here I mean and they're like. Oh, these are the replacement, guys you and a mane of coming in so yeah probably say like I got. I got really sick of the gas mask.

when they show you like photos and staff of like what people look like would blister agent anna? I, like that, was like a That was a real threat like everybody was like scared for those aspects of the chemical minds and arbitrary, and we we had the mind belts blow in the mind belts that were out there which was interested, within itself, You know when. So that was your mission. Yeah What we had to get through those mine belts, berkshire was too big. My belts, we got Leah, were all everybody's backed up and you got to ya the the lines that connection. over the back of the eye. The am tracks and detonate ran, give you kind of a lane kind of a thing to go through some of the work, some of them didn't, so we adapt we're we're tanks were there with us, the tanks were attached. As I remember their calls, I guess it was public enemy, which was like a super like you're, going to be like tat guy, like that's cool,

great classic girls, I like public at them, and those guys would come through and push the plows and just the the the air power the amount of support and being in oh three, eleven like on the ground I felt like I didn't even need a gun, I mean the the kitchen sink was being thrown at these folks. I mean they were just it was. It was all I was like a alive fire exercise or when it kicked off. What was your what here, but with europe were tunes mission breaches getting through, and then they had like on the other side of the mind, belts was defensive positions for the iraqis, so we all had certain objectives that we can't had hit and you just do the my balls. They thought it would take like days for us to get through the mai belts, not couple of hours and then we had the army's tiger brigade that was following

I thought they were the ones that were going to do the big left, the big left hook going up into iraq. With that mean I'd, never seen so many bradleys a m one abrams, because remember that's when the m one came out the abram. What's that thing is that, bad ass, peace and gear for an hour, so we did the mind boats, they broke laughed, they start here. Nor do I rock and were when we hit there the objectives of for our company objectives, and so these are like little iraqi police since these are your company objectives were like little tell boxes or whatever. If even that I mean they had been sitting out there for so like we had these extravagant like what we thought we were going to encounter and then what we actually we encountered were not the site. Like some couple. Sandbag due to the making of aid if they were like in living quarters like they ve been out there. So long just like us, like you, just try to make your life comparable so good.

Simply, would you know what I mean dig a hole puddle over top of it. You know what I mean make a nice little area. You can brew rama, gotcha, coffee, that kind of stuff- just basically out their levin and though the front on troops like warrant the republican guard, guys they had those guys behind them to make sure that they didn't run run away and so you know, as you start coming through, is basically week. We hit em and thereby flags. Oh yeah,. I mean it because they were like alma gather their hero like their their coffee Pop was like still wore biota name when we rolled in and then it just it was just a rolex lacks a once. We went through the and, of course you know, everybody yogi you're scared, the main one group on the other side of the mai belts in their their drop and artillery and those sorts of things come on you can. You can hear the explosion.

And the over the other set the oil fields on fires. He just got like that oil fields and the black smoke and all our kind of sorts like we're. U freakin stoked but yeah to be there and dislike like, and then get the hell out of here anyway. So how long will it take before you got your objective secured and then what you do not only loaded up straight away. I mean it was. It was just game on a wee wee, wee role that air war and that campaign that those folks dead unbelievable I mean it was like a window. Pane left intact in kuwait, mean day day, if they like, I said they threw the kitchen sink at them. I mean the the air power above us, even with our with our helicopter support, with cobras army with their apaches and then all the fast movers and stuff. Over there I mean they. Just There was a law, a crater, that mile of death cause

years later, probably, like think was ninety three or ninety four. I went to kuwait and we're do like training. We draw but the mile definitions still vehicles all over the place that we just blasted, oh n n than that that they want to make it look like the kuwaiti slight had apart isn't it so then they're going to let them come back in and shoot into the air and yeah. We took our country back and all that kind of stuff, but yeah that place was a wreck, it's amazing what it looks like now compare yeah I mean they. They they. They took the woods who had, but it was of seeing that and in ninety one and its just seeing the the amount of power the united states has just unimaginable of of what we can bring to bear but I look at the commanders that were those see you compare yoga a few years later after our red column, pals autobiography phenomenal individual nominal career, but

look at those guys in the in the leadership positions of of where they were in their careers of what they had gone through coming out of vietnam and see in that kind of stuff. So when give now it's their turn to go, I was very thankful for that, but even the debating commanders, with them. Having combat experience, you know what I mean was it was. It was a game changer for us to to have somebody that gave directly looking out for you that that's been there done. That has the t, shirt and hat kind of aspect, and, and they know what right looks like in the way they were as leaders like a sad I mean to cool jones, was I as the baton commander. He was just phenomenon as a leader because he was personal. Like you, ve felt like yahoo toolbar, nation ship with a guy and and of course, you know, he always had a love sports yos beggin with

activity so yeah. We had softball bats. I played third base for his year for his battalion chaim, your main so third base and yeah. I got an arm your domain love playing go so it was like camp, but you will remain again but we're in the middle of the desert. Yeah, it's it's It's a you know. You mentioned that you had these guys who were running the show- and you know when, when we just had this afghanistan pull out, which is a big disaster and you look at the entire the entire afghanistan compare campaign in their rat campaign that debt that took place I was in asia. Did. These people want anything for vietnam. and then you look at how those guys handled the first gulf war. Like you know they learned some for vietnam, like we're, not gonna. Do it like that. Go in there with overwhelming force

mean overwhelming times five like there's nothing's, going to stop us and we would end up doing this in three days. That's what's gonna happen. You said people those only ninety. Six hours yes, exactly ogden thankful for that. You know and That was a huge, torn apart, of course, the by then go then I had known when I came back to give them recourse. This is this is I'm gonna, does. Why were you up? I've got three deployments, and then you know that than there look at it. Now you got a kind of diversify yourself, a little bit so I came back and I was, did you? Did you guys come back on a ship how'd? You guys get back those to america, because we were there First, then we got to be the first out and there was a call of all airlines worldwide come and pick up troops to get home

We flew hawaiian airlines, which was which was pretty banging in order to make being out being gone for over nine months. You know total, because we were already on deployment and got tag you're it and you know it you're getting on that. The big freedom, birds and we landed and we we flew over, we landed in in ireland to refuel, and then we landed and main We landed in may and they let us get off the plains, and we all came back again and we were like the first, like troops back to hit you soil and main and meant that the airport one the walls were lined with just itsy michael Well, the state of maine was at the airport. You have to meet flags there I'd tables out food and though the botanic manner airways like meet me at the bar and here we go to the bar- is probably not the smart,

Trying to do- and here you ve been sober for now mars and now we're all gonna go to the barn, but I mean people in maine for them coming out with a huge the support that we got not coming back after that was raising so we're there lay refuel. They put us back on the, but on the bird and the other, the the stewardess. Just hide the locked themselves away because you gotta, stupid marines varying have drear, they get the drink, no smoking, lamps, common, aren't deeds are barred and cigarette here, there's no. She had given we get down to it. sharepoint and the bands down there. I mean there, though, and twelve packs and a beer on the back of the five tons were going back down a la june. It was I mean it was a great great homecoming to be able to to to come back and it was it was. It was phenomenal for that experience

and then I decide of what what I'm gonna do next gotta one of my best friends, the berry. He lives. Just up the road here in Santiago, we were together and first, but I six marines and we both went over to await orders to go the drove. You become a droll instructor and just because you I'm in the marine corps, like the the dea very iconic for sure figure, The bigger reason is back. Then you only had to do two years on the drill field, but if you went recruiting, he added do three well. The only thing I knew was I did not want to be a recruiter like that yeah I would, god bless. Yeah I mean we ve got to school right here. I m c r d for marine corps recruiting in Gaza great at their job.

Well yeah. The marines put on the you know the uniform. The way they look the way they recruit. I mean we can propaganda with the best of them out there and so I wanted to go to the d- I think it's funny hat plus it would be fun and in it was I was how want so. How long is drill instructor school? It's like three months. Like you're. Going to boot, can't beat you got rank I imagine, though it must be like even harder and boot than boot camp in some ways cause you gotta, be so like perfect, with everything in its learning, like that. The drill manual verbatim its from the mannerisms to justify the command, presents youtube that I'll teach can eat. It guy that doesn't amity command presence and they teach it to. Oh yeah.

I mean, are you're going to stand out there and yell at a lot of trees. You know what I mean just like. If you ever go down there and you like watch diy school and they're going through diy school, you see dudes like what is he doing yelling and then just what at a tree. What he's doing with likes call the teach back where you have the verbatim. You have a domain labour go back through, for the different now moves up of drill. and then you know from your mannerisms how you dress, how you look you're professionalism of of communist it. It is it's it's a difficult! in school. The uniforms are just I mean that's next level yeah, because I wasn't like the best uniform guy. You know amina yeah, I wasn't like I didn't even own dress blues like I cause you had to buy back then if you wanted, but I was like why all I want to buy. You know what I mean I liked the alphas

the the greens, so I just had alpha's. I never had the blues adrian issue him to me in your way cool without I didn't joined, to get dressed boys, I joined for the cameras and the rifle free ammo. That kind of stuff travel the world I got there that the uniforms were difficult. The pt was really good but it was. It was more of the structure of everything that they do to you at the high school. You can use it when you become a droll structure, so they're going to do stuff the you that, then you can turn around and mark magua. like on the trainees schedule of like of probably the biggest this conception of marine corps and boot caps. Every thinks it's like hands on like you. I owe you to get beat they're going to put me back physically physically yeah the main and you learn there that know you don't have to hit them to hurt them.

I mean it's one arm this. It's nothing has changed. If, if you need put put your hands on somebody, then you ve lost leadership, mean if you have to go to the physical force, You have just in europe. Mannerism and the shock in awe of just a voice can just intimidate peoples is mainly is your voice. The smoky brings a lot to bear and then just your physical fitness level yearning. Is there s a recruit. You're, like discard, like sweat, like this guy, doesn't get tired. Main heat these. These guys you're just animals and end. It is it's. It's a lotta. It's a lot of hard work as a lot. A long hours, but It is very rewarding when, when you get there, the recruits of coming to an end

it's fun because now you're, like alive character on Saturday night, live among some of the stuff. That's why you got the big smoky it, so you can drop it, so they can't see a laugh, but because I mean some of the stuff that you see that recruits do is like I'd, be with some of the other hats gazette. Would you call D I had you people are either hatches idea, there's no way. I was stupid when I was here in your like yeah. You are you're just as dumb, as these kids are that are coming in, and they just do funny. They do funny stuff and then, as as a droll instructor, when, when you get the kids on the yellow footprints and then in a three month period when their parents come down for graduation and your march em up there in its path, stay thursday afternoon at paris, island and and all the pain it's your excited to see their kids sees me and when the parents have to come over and ask you like which ones mine

You can look at at like did you ve had that kid, for, like eighteen years, you dont know which one she yours you're the transformation when they get to go out with their parents. Droll instructors get the meat the parents that night when they bring the kids back to the squad bay and the parents are just like. How did you do that send three months. He saying yes, sir, yes MA am he's home doors open like a set up straight the day. Well that you know what I mean like. What you all did to this to our son is just incredible. It's a great weight loss programme may lie folk, show up your enemy. They look like a sea bag with lips. Judah bubble gum urine, three months later, their fight lava monsters are made. They looked like their straight out of three hundred and so that that's very rewarding of of sea and some of those some of those kids just end

in the marine corps man, we then we're gonna, put that emblem arm for the rest of her life in their faith. They they've joined a great institution yeah? What's a marine, always marine, we're gonna be the families and we're going mom dad they're gonna buy the T. Shirts two hats, they're gonna fly the flags. The marine corps does In my opinion, we do a really good job of bringing in the entire fan like you and me, you'll see the stickers on the backs of cars, not my sons, a! U s, Marie my daughter's! U s! Moraine! Maybe we might we got my grandson a main. We bring in the whole family to support that kid, while he's scared service to country which is huge when, when you're drone structure or your drill instructor sky- they re talking you through sort of like the psychological. Why, behind this aspect, training or this aspect to treatment, for instance, when I or two,

Oh, she s had marine corps drone structure. Also guy awesome journal instructor, but at some point eat meat he told us stuff at the end you and it was honestly. I think I'll ask a lot of questions, because I wanted to understand better for instance, when you get to oversee ass, you can't look at your food. You you you have to. We called squaring your meals animals, Hey what why are we doing that and he goes well. That comes from which we, when we he's just train pilots, they had the learned use their peripheral vision, so they could see their instruments while looking around ok that makes sense hey. What do we got a yellow because you gotta speaking of ballistic tone, which means you gotta tell everything like what what reason behind that this as well. these young and in here that are going to go on b, b on board a ship. Shepherd me on the bridge and we're gonna have to give orders. on the bridge in a simple we're, concise manner. They can't be hesitant. They I think before they say, but then they got to say with a commanding voice of the people actually hear them, and then can execute so there's.

Things going on that there is a problem: attic reason behind, but the day ever breakdown down for you, for instance, you know you can go watch on youtube. You can go watch like the welcome aboard like first night, but maybe it's the second day where the marines I have a very pre, planned script, that they're saying about We know this is the marine corps this? What we're doing do they bring stop down at all at a cycle. logical level for you, because what you just said about the marine corps, doing it very well. I mean I don't know, if there's any one, that does it better than the marine corps, I mean in the way I don't know if there's any group that has a stronger culture than the marine corps that that takes normal human beings from literally everywhere and every strata of the united states of america and sometimes other parts of the world, and turns I'm into this. Cohesive he's a unit almost Anyone who does it better but do they

break it. Down to this I hate him. is the reason why we do this right here, like even basic seal training. You know that Oh, what is how weak for what is it for and there's people? I can answer that. Well, here's what's gonna happen. You know that What are you gonna give me have guys that are going to quit on the second day Those are the people Ababa and I ve done all this sort of psychological background on it is there anything like that at them when you, when you become a marine corps, drilled structure that you understand the? Why or is it just? This is what we know works. Yeah a lot of it has to do with this. Is this is what work, but it so like everything is done, like you said they give squaring your meals like everything. It is for a reason, in its also you that when we hand this recruit over to this, get commission officer its instant obedience to orders I mean these guys. There I mean they do it better than anybody.

and since obedience. But when you talk like that, psychological aspects out, I was also a I was a swim had. So I was a marine combat instructor wire survival. So I was a swan instructor. Basically, for the marine corps and you because of the the kids that we recruit like myself. They can't put that marine has something to do with aquatics in it. For some reason, you know what I mean like the recruiters, don't like. Let them know that hey when you get down there, you gotta swim. That mean we get lucky may we get kids all over the planet that have never largest body of water they ve ever seen, is the the pool tank it at paris, island south carolina may they have never been in a body of water that big and we don't complete can swim Nobody in the other girls are good, come out here by not swim, stand where the side we just give strap their gear autumn remain so Jim arrive.

Put a helmet on underwear in their boats and they're. All like yo aid. Be right. Next to the the ten put tower and we're going to give him the the swim brief and we're gonna take em up, the ten foot tower and ask them. A thirty eight step into the deep band and swung twenty five meters and when you sit there. Look you know who the reproof tsar back swell their problem. we look around board. Is anybody gonna ask like nobody, there's not going to ask and when look at it as we just want to see if they're gonna step, if they can overcome fear yet within individual can overcome. Fear or trot. I mean, there's a drill instructor in the water waiting for you like no one has drowned in this trend like it, it's go it's The instructors under their very professional very well run, and we, see this young man or young woman. You know

that mouse the tower that knows that they can't swim a day in their life and but they're, going to trust the instructors and in the marine corps that the we're going to take care of you. They just the step thirty and stop they hit the water they come up. You know they're, throwing up stuff from the third grade. They got snot coming out, they're straight through that they don't even make it even close to swimming at all. Just a rock in the water we take em up. to the side. We strip of all the way down into there. Yeah there are their petty shorts and we take him down to. To the shallow end and we teach them how to swim. it's a life skill and either nothing greater than when you, because it is not necessarily maybe their parents, just we don't know background how they re like for me. I don't remember learning how to swim. I could just swim. A lot of those kids. Just don't have that advantage and we take him down there to the to the shallow under the pool and we teach them the survival strokes and in a couple of weeks

like. If they ve got different training, they gotta come back to the pool and do remediation until we can get them to pass and they can swim. When you see the confidence level and a kid now that he can like swim, and he passed that I mean this guy's going to go through. Brick walls hit, his fear is gone and there's nothing. This. he had cannot accomplish. Now I mean it's just amazing. He could see it at a meeting have you ever like seeing someone they accomplish something just the of a small task of lakes, woman, twenty five meters like it's really not that big of a deal but to that kid and huge life, changing that how often what's nutrition rate of marine corps bookshop. How many guys would you lose in what were you in charge of their applause?

yeah, so you got a platoon, so you know, depending on the time of the year, you might have you know between fifty to seventy kids that aren't platoon. You might lose fifteen to twenty of them. but a lot of them year. Injuries so they're gonna get very size, are now they're, just just gonna get recycled and rolled they go to what like. If you come in like it when you for, get down there and its, no offense recruiters or anything like that. But you know the kids are supposed to be able to have completed a somewhat of a physical task, prior to common, so they can at least like pull themselves. bob out of a white paper bag, at least like once before they get there yeah, it's our whole preparation thing and in some of the kids here, we signed a pc p physical conditioning platoon to some of em show up and are just not not, really prepared and when you can look at that is not really the kid. The kid just read a pan What do you mean he wants to come in and that somebody saunter daughter? You mean that they think that

The greatest sanctions, sliced bread to be a marine. I mean you only do three pole ups, We only got to run three miles in twenty eight minutes. I mean it's not like we're we're bang in it. You know domain of like something that's just like incredibly difficult, but to some people Three pull up says: that's the most have ever done in their life, and so are we got those we ve got medical rehabilitation, bolton us off the guys get roll back. It's very rare you may like you, can try had a drop mean we do drop kids and get set off the island, and it's just because they're just not conforming we're about to straight quitters like it older a talk or it's too far,. we're going to send them that everybody's got like a series commander, so you have an officer to kind of keep a look over happening and sell block he remained and they have to go down and they'll get at it. view with that. I gave a marine captain

eyes a serious commander and he's gonna try to talk decade and a state like hey. You know what man that the rules are really are tat bad. make us. It's all a numbers game yoda me like in the end, the marine corps needs a sort of man and numbers. He's going to try to talk the kid back in and that's like a lotta times with the platoon commander, or that you know, series commanders that you have down there. You're, like you, gotta, be shitting me, sir you're, going to send this kid back behind. Like yeah. This guy is just as kids, incredible and he's just like you just go work What then go to main just give leadership challenge that remain like the last thing I need in the middle of book. Atlas might leadership challenge, but In the end, I mean there are there for the most part, one when you look at it their join in united states marine corps, so Look across amerika like who else is join your niece at least the kid the sign.

On the dotted line and he's got a common provide service to his country, which is that's pretty incredible. Just in that asked but some of them just cycle magically they're, just they're, not mentally toffana but they're going to do whatever it takes to get off of that island. In order to do whatever it takes to help them get. offer that island you it's it's a lot of fun, but you know The rifle range is usually a pretty big deal. You ever brains, riflemen, but yeah we're just lookin marksman. How can get across the qualification lives? I kind of think so. Marksmanship package, you know, means a two week package down there. I think it's pretty good. It's pretty good marksmanship package with the marine corps puts on you know for us shooting them back at five hundred with great, five five six! It's not great ammo! It's it's a pretty big accomplishment and then

Just then the aspects of one those kids graduate from paris island they look like they're ready, the just strapped on the world, the three month period, yeah they're, really not any tougher than they were three months before when they got there, but their mindset is different. I would say that that's probably the biggest thing we just we changed their mindset and hopefully we're making a better product. for america, when the kids go back home, they get out, hopefully were putting a better product back into society after serving in the marines. Absolute majority we're doing a pretty good job, but I would say that for pretty much all the armed services the instant obedience to orders when you get in the marine corps

Marine corps was like. We were talk about gray and enlightenment, or second alignment of the marine corps, which is hey. We want people to think we want to have. You know me type orders and those kind of things at what point do you from all right, I'm a robot among obey the borders that are given to me to hold on a second boss. Here's what my thoughts are usually when you get the nine commission officer when you ve step into that team leader role, I remain and then you're yo you're reading assortment. Usually I don't know if it's still to this day, but you reading message to garcia Yonah mean getting on those little inches of starting to thank on their own domain it. Not necessarily like everything has to come from a book like everything, very sentence.

stone, or you know what I mean so when our grey beard brings in these yeah with the war fighting publications, yeah, it's starting to it. It's it's. It's kind of liberating that you can now there's not a problem with like questioning authority is basically you're, not you're. Just asking. Why like? What's the? Why in it like what Why are we here? Why are we doing it this way? Is it just because you're telling me to, yoda minors are actually some go method to the madness. so I would say yeah once you get into that team leader kind of role and then ceo, you know the noncommissioned officer yeah, that's when yeah we're going to start. You need to start thinking on your own. You need to start taking charge. It's not that instant obedience to orders- and you know if you see something- that's not right, then bring that up and- and you shouldn't be worried.

the repercussions of of questioning. Now there are some that don't like to be question. So, of course, that you there that aspect of it, but that's it in any organization organization, yes, those candid jerks so It done with what happens when you get done with your time of drone strikes where you're back to once, except go right back first, I didn't want to have to buy new t, shirts and stuff. So I figured hey man, yeah called the monitor. Let's go right back to first time, six marines went back there and now I'm stuck either that, like to sergeant qana thing that the eli tucker, of my career and now that you mentioned to me one time we were talking you, like all you. Some guys had a hard time taking off their die hat, meaning they come from the drill field, where their yelling and screaming and expect to be treated basically like a god and now,

you're back in a platoon and it's like they keep acting like that. It could be a problem yeah I mean, Now I don't want the over the feller drill instructors out there and take a fast but murray droll instructors- you just the low paid actor. I mean it is an acting job. Yeah I mean you know you you're putting on a it's a show. and so what we like our own agree with that well upon, like the third hat ago, certain way that they want me to act as third hat. If I'm the heavy you're going to mean that the second hot, the J of what they call third hat the third you're like nick the new hat you just graduated from school, literally you might as well just get a laundry numbered stand with the recruits cause. You don't know what you're doing

yeah, what made it so! You just run around and they're like hey, hey, yeah they'd, be like hey dog, you you need to get louder and you need to get faster. Yeah everything you're doing is not fast enough. It's not loud enough! It's not! You know what I mean so yeah, so you're running around and you're trying to be that that sandfly to where you're just never letting these kids get a break. the heavy like the he's the senior green belt in protein and he's teach him everything drill teaching squad bay procedures, yo domain he's very farm like the heaviest guy. That's the most experienced role stronger here, the one is recruit. You don't mess with this guy. He he how's the drill, he's very good at his job Then you got like the senior roles doctor that, whereas the black bow he's like dad, you mean like he comes and he hands out may always nicer to yeah, and these are all stated roles.

yeah, I mean it's, you know if, if you're, like the third hat, like the new guy and you're in there, like big, daddy and the recruits and handing out candy to them, yeah you're not going to go over well with your peers, is that they're gonna yards that peer pressure of of how your kind of law what role you play in the platoon, so We have some of the folks when, when you leave the drill field and you go back to the fleet marine force, some of the folks data like they, they were that smoky they want to. They want to wear it in the fleet. and I had a lot of folks- are like lucky: we're, not bouquet. Many more n! You mean you need to leave that hat on the island, but yeah when you do come back and in especially with the officers in the senior and listed as a as a droll and struck,

You mean to me your brain to bring in a lot of of of experience, Yonah main and work ethic, backed I and my my orders daughter she's married to a marine he's effigy. He just finish- is he was a D Of course he calls me what should I do next drill instructor man, you mean in any knocked it out the park and now he's back accomplish in. and I guess the first thing I told him leave the leave the smoky yeah, a paris island. You know what I mean there's just no place for that's not a it's not a leadership style. You know but he really respond well to that, other than marry. core recruits in maputo at paris, ireland right! That's it that's it. You know The funny thing is is like act, You been on the rural field in the uk, where the remember all recruits that you ve had Is it just a whole bunch of them? So it's got a hard like keeper

but some of them. You end up like finding out that, like that that kid was in your platoon, you go over to them and it's like hey. How can they come over and say anything europe too and they're, like I wasn't going to legacy, you mean like do I'm scared about you and it's just like just a regular guy. You remember that that whole perception everybody still remembers their marine draw instructors. Its data made. My sergeant williams, was messing around I'll, never forget dagger, anyone allergy. Oddly enough, my my drone structure, I still remember in Austria, Its goal, but his last name his gunnery sergeant seals, which is an interesting question that's right, awesome guy, awesome guy, sir, get back to want sex and now you're a now europe platoon sergeant the right, yeah yeah and back out of stole sergeant. So I was a he five technical you're supposed to be a a a six to get a platoon, but yeah they were,

they were short on those guys. So I I got a platoon, and this is what like nineteen ninety seven or something like ninety six yeah, I finished yeah. I finished on the drill field and ninety five and came over and right back into one six and in ninety six, and I was very excited to be back at camp le Shan, not that I didn't have a like a good time. I'm a person loaded, it was de I had little run in with a worthwhile botanic manders. It was down there he thought I was little overly aggressive- and you know it was yeah- he he told italia. Let me tell you what it's like to be a drill, and I was like the one where you a droll instructor, sir, that whenever, like afar search your own domain. He did like that aspect of it and so me and him that necessarily see eyes. When I left paris island, they were like you, please don't come back

but I was a lot of fun and then, when I got back to the fleet There was a lot of other guys that you know the the drill instructor community is is very small and it's it's pretty tight, and if and if you get back in One of the copy, gunny xyz, nameless clifford happy he was a hat, when I came in here. I just got more opportunities, just because I had that experience of being a droll instructor, so they gave able to which I was super stoked with and it gave me a Potu commander as they buck rawlins. Vice dad was wayne rawlins to star general navy cross one or vietnam gregg I've just attended his funeral a few months back. He was buried in Arlington, guidelines, and I you know so eric dogs on back

was there a time I mean that battalion for some reason, my we had some like amazing. Second lieutenants like that were just like you did We see that many great guys that were all and that the tie and from Pascal leads to go. There was just a bunch of I'm afraid No was an arabs platoon commanders that was my experience of where you know, when you become up up opposite platoon sergeant, you get the spend more time with two matters before that. You know really hang out. The officers like at all, your name, but then you become like you're you're, a partner that you mean you're gonna work, this platoon together an idea. I was very fortunate. I had fortunate buck rawlins. I had dug some back and I dug Olsen these guys. Were europe platoon commanders yet. I work with them raw.

Where the bottom commander, but its marketing. Let's just get the hang out there we support. office about the officers in the philippines is like they rent. We own yeah. At officers rent, we own. It's like my it's like the chief. You know the the dogs, it's their platoon, the officers. Just oh he's gonna, be here for a while, but does arbiter yeah it's pretty much exact same thing. It is for super tie and it's it's it's the buttons aren't and it's yeah. Like I said I mean you know, Eli talker had a huge effect on me as a as a platoon sergeant, and you know coming in from the kids that were in apple tune and yeah. I've stayed in in one six for it's like three and a half years in the battalion did a couple of pumps. I was going to say so you do a workup guild training cycle and then, go and appointed reese riding ships on those deployments, yeah,

right ships doing work up. We did a med float, which was which was supercool. We conduct the porter. I ended up over in albania drawn albania remembered like the ninety seven timeframe. They were gonna blow and embassies around the, so we got the call I was with the twenty fourth get twenty fourth mew. We would just finished up doing work up and we need it as they want us to go into drawn albania. So now I got at that time. I had the honour snob tune, so had the snipers died took got twelve guys am here we go. don't see one thirty's up and cherry point with an effigy rifle company and but they flew, is over. We did a refuel thing at singapore landed in ITALY, got on a fifty three flew out only ussr pan, with twenty second mute brief dan and we were in country. Try.

Albania, after they had evacuated the embassies out of there. and that was why we state of their for a couple of months? What will you doing your mission? Just basically. Ronan, the embassy was evacuated, so we empty yes as he has basically doing dirty on the embassy yep to doesn't get trashed or whatever unknown steel shed or I mean I had a lot of a lot of other agencies that were over their running around, I was some guy navy seals rover there, There was a lot of stuff going on. You know what I mean. The overarching was bosnia. You know what I mean that whole region at the time, it was a really good experience, especially for the younger guys, we're inopportune guys at all had inopportune even to this day, I am still in contact. Where are you from those guys that was there was a very special time.

Those three years at once, expand and not by Potu sergeant or what you would call like. Chief scout conor role. was just huge I learn more about myself than yeah, with with those spokesman just that. Their reliant on me, yo remained, took to train, educate, damn take care of them. It was a really a really special time in a marine corps. For that that time and service when you went over there. Were you the senior guy, or did you have an officer? We're had an officer, I'll, be commander company commander. We had and then, of course, the mew had there. Some of their mused staff was over there pascal ali was a captain, was over I'm still as was sean those guys at a company kind of reinforced. So we had some guys over the embassy. We had some guys kind of stay back and they were

the housing complex. I still I'd stay department, folks that were millimetre. The area and the other just lookin for for bad guys a lot of time like watching. We were basically snipers we're over watch. So you know we had albanians working, workin gates, stuff, like dagger. We would hire them in and we would do the over watch for them. Over at the embassy was right. Next to the university of toronto, seem just a lot of observing a lot of time observing, but it was the same ix. Areas for those guys that I got when I was what the panama when they issue out alive ammo. It's just different gay yeah, even though nothing eventful which I'm thankful for took place. While we were over there, as you know, the only and that would come in at the back of my mind when I think of like being added embassies, Beirut, you when you're just blow, wing stuff up. That's not necessarily warfare anymore,

it's terrorist activities, that's a you know, and yet, when you, when you think of the events of a of an infantry company, you know in a barracks yeah, you can't help but think of route. So, but luckily we learn from that. The company commander was air, like we were very well disperse, nobody was gonna, be in one gives single and a failure. The over watch. On the gauge the guards I mean it was there was You know the rules of engagement, oh yeah, I know of what they had to deal with it bay route completely different. So obviously We were a learning organization of we're, not gonna. Let this kind happen again, which was which was really cool for those guys to kind of go through that experience. And yet once everything was over and I believe the threats were were pretty much eliminated and gone. They brought the embassy back and bass. It comes back in, and I mean people go to run albania vacation, I may, which is car kind of funny

yo? Even like gay people go to panama. Now it's great vacation spot yeah. When I was there. I never thought that like who would want to come to toronto. How baby? You know what I mean, but Super nice people you bill for part of the world but different than us. Then war came after that after that, got. When I attended a quantico, I attended the vat these dive in advance type of school at quantico ass. I went through the advance ivory school prior to that deployment. And these staff, it's you, I see that was up there bill nortons name, we max access. He asked me if I want to come back up to be an instructor at quantico after that next deployment and the course yeah like yeah, you know mean gone up to quantico I, so he brought me up there's an instructor when I got down so I was an instructor at quantico I took over as the chief instructor.

the school house at quantico, which was I mean, it's a was tons of fine. Just I mean everybody that shows up sniper school as they do the we do. The basic course You do the advanced course and then you do what's called the cyber employment office core, so the guys it are gonna be like in charge of I propose that we put up to her like a sniper employment package got too weak course kind of a thing at quantico, Maybe it was a lot of fun. Every day I mean the instructors, the students, it's just. There are a lot of fun. It's a great package. Yeah I mean the stocking exercises is like fun. Yeah I mean that's like a people should pay money to go. Do that and then just the barrier, ass in brass and you're gonna shoot a lot of ammo yeah. So and as an instructor at that level. You know I was it. You

instructor. I expected that all these structures, on the contrary, should be able to perform any of the skill says at any given time. Three hundred sixty five day when the when the kids would come and run the physical fitness task. By expected, the instructors out their runnin right along with students, that kind of an aspect of you know. Even though we've got mine, you know a lot of times, people yeah I got mine, let's make it harder for the next guy I mean the training schedule alone is hard enough. You don't have to how long is the? How long is the sniper course? It's like twelve weeks, it's friggin, no joke. Yeah I mean it's its use of sniper course for the whole marine corps. That's it! Well. We got a quarter Cody you got campus gym. You got penalty, it's right up here, pendleton they they run the basic course four times a year and how long as the basic course it's the twelve week, okay and then they they got rid of the advanced course matter of fact they got rid of the basic car that gets all and I'm sure it's better like better. Now, Whatever we were doing yoke is. We

still back and probably in the half cocked days remain of the the white feather a the chalk. Mohini were we're gonna yeah stocking stocking is a, I would say, stockings its patrolling it's just on the ground. It's a different perspective. You have stopped yeah, you learned so much from just laying with your face second, the earth of what we call skull drag you might be. The first person heard say: restocking was fun like most The growth of the seal sniper course daylight stocking is not fine words ice because it it's kind of it's a game. You're you go up against a guy that a trained observer and thereon glass and the abyss. Ready for you to be able to command in a two hundred yards. Yo remain get two rounds off undetected and stock out. To me I mean it's it's.

it's amazing, have the ability to hide blend and deceive is: is pretty cool If you understand how that all works, I mean you, don't even need a ghillie suit. You could be literally naked and in stock. If you understand how you know this the stocking of blending backdrop, you know the cubs so it was. It was a lot of fun plus you just get a lot of really good moraines ways to get the best. of course, we have navy seals, kung, fu we'd have army rangers come through up air. British role man. We, I have a british role on the staff at quantico. We have a really good relationship with the brits, so Just a year know it's it's a phantom. When you ve got like twenty four great americans I just want to shoot ball guns. Yoda me look. Do glass is just a fine time. Every

what is there with a with a purpose like there's? Not the leadership aspect is kind of guy you don't necessarily. You lead by example, you know what I mean like one on looking at an instructor europe walk in on training day, one and the instructor looks like a sea bag with lips, and the first thing he's going to tell me how he used to be a bad ass. You know what I mean you're thirty three years old that you know what I mean like nobody's over here. You know what I mean Isn't that military, you think of manic eyes, an old man. You know what I mean he's thirty four, although you know what I mean like you should be. in the prime of your thirty's, so yeah, I always liked out about the snipers and even the river there. Casa, schools up the road appear same with bodies, are mainly instructors at her there you're uses look at them, and I mean they just they look the part better yeah I mean, and they can do anything that they're asking the student to do.

which is, is a super cool way of that that leadership and that holding yourself accountable to be too being. or to our to perform at any given time. So where are you win september? Eleventh happens Is this where your eyes were station, when September eleventh happens up at quantico? That's why I call it. The world changed in nine miles. We the students. Often I went there's a loop up at quantico, overwork snipers where'd, you grind, everybody say you got the students offered what menu cut him loose nodded I like or just you know they get them in in the morning they're going to go to the range they're gonna. Do an observation exercise they're going to do you mean there's another instructor? That has them, because you know when, on the instructor cadre, you kind of have to manage your time of year, obviously I'll be there when the students you there's a chief instructor in and we gotta get the day going. If I'm on the platform first upon me, so and I always enjoy gretna a run in here throughout the day. Get it get a chance to work out over the poor. Do something so that-

that day? On September eleventh, we got here. We got stooge on deck. Get him often go on and I take off towards the f b, I academy, so I'm right over there by the f b I academy and in the basic school and there's a nine mile loop that goes around and- and I I take off I let the guys know- hey man, I'm going to go for a run, I'm going to run the loop. They know exactly where I'm going and so on, are often runnin and, as are met, in my way in and around over by what they say about called lake longer, that's over at quantico, next to the fbi academy, and I'm coming and I'm c, like a law that aircraft like fly I know right yeah, the f b I always has like stuff going on. They got the hostage rescue team, that's there as well, but then it's just like

Affleck kilos, kilos and stopped like gets a lot of activity, which is that, but then all the black vehicles are just leaving the f b I compound and yet cause you got it. That's the funny thing about like at quantico that day before we used to not have gay It's. You could literally driver by ninety five and pull off the exit and drive straight on to arrange for with a sniper students, land right there on the range and you didn't go through a gay. You did nobody checked your idea card nothin there was just no gates, and so I'm I'm sorry, I'm runnin back and see in all these vehicles fly out by time. I get back to the school house, it's kyle again what what the hell's going on and that's when they pentagon's be in here, you knew york nile evans. We inherit mitya psych it it's it's game on, and the world changed and non.

Nine miles me within an hour on man of the world, completely change. We had sandbags barracks me, there there man engaged are making gates. I mean it was. It was total anarchy in quantico and, as you can imagine me being so close to the pentagon of it hit the pentagon. They got guys that are coming in. You know, they're wanting to know like how can marine support, not that kind of was odd to me that, like didn't have authorization to go out the light help Yeah. You know what I mean like you got all these marines. You got all the spokes like what why are marines like you, ain't bring the marines in, but then you The look out it is like the events over like you, they form a boeing's yeah, we're all thinking like what's kind of next, that was it tat was the big event and You know after that, then everybody knew at that in time it. It's go time, work and the marines

in the army, I'm sure with you guys with the teams like everybody's, watching thinking how you know. When are we going to deploy when when's the first actions gonna start coming in but yeah I was. I was at quantico. So then what what happens after that I had met, met a couple of guys through up there at a sniper school and there was there was a certain unit, and I was hoping to get selection into that skype. Yet one of the guys recommended me ass, I went Anna, went the recommendations and and with that they needed a place for me to have to hang out ah, but them animal selection like in the national capital region, so John Allen, was the common animate shipment at the naval academy and I'd I'd known him for down the six marines and yet

John I was like yeah, hey I'll, take JD, bring them up to the naval academy and of course I was like yeah I'm going to the naval academy like I'd. I'd never been to annapolis maryland day in my life I didn't I mean I knew the academy, but, like my perception of a naval academy, graduate was Doug's em back, like that's what I expected and then my other guy that I worked with a sniper school was John bradley. John bradley was the three time national box and champ. At the academy, his call sign was big people. it was half black half german. I mean the dude was like rambo. Yo remain he's still really good, with John brown he's a great human being,

the eyes to to make fun of them like, because he, where, like navy box in and you and of course the dog, was a navy ras learn I was like do you know what my taxpayer dollars by there's? No way, you guys waited a naval academy, but that's my perception of the naval academy the offer sure that that I've had dealt with work they come out of the naval. Kindly they were, they were top notch, so that was that was my. perception going in I can remember when, when I, when I went up to check into the naval academy again, I didn't know where it was. I just knew it was in annapolis, so I'm driving around annapolis. I get over top of the severn bridge and I'm looking down, but I think it's like it looks like the state capital and there's like two women that are walking across the bridge, and I'm like excuse me, ladies, like that, were that able academy is and they're laughing like dude. That's it. I was like wow like that's next level might remain, as it is impressive.

Without him and checked it, to the academy and john out and at first. I really didn't have a job for me to do, because, like that directive, which had already started and I really didn't know like what I was getting into like I didn't know like what they do at the naval academy and your anticipation is that your weight new go to selection for a special mission unit and you're gonna, be there for six months or something and then you'll roll out. Yet that that's my mindset and in an and and John Alan, give great guy wicked smart. I was so were excited, has thought library at the naval academy is off the chain. Amazed like it's off the chain, it up I love a library I remain up? Get the job meters, a lotta history up their meat comes a court bet your like. They got to come so it remain and our citizens

It was a bit of a rude awakening liked. So the first morning call again this morning I got up there. Now go for a ride, so at all I d, like get myself like situational awareness of like get orientated is, is run, saw run around, so I'm runnin around annapolis, looking at the town and stuff- and I make my way back in I'm onto- comes a court and as I'm in comes a cord upstairs look at me. They got like my you much like all over the play them in that chapel there, it's pretty bang and they got like a bunch of different poles got to come, sir and I'm looking at the cubs. The next thing you know like there's this, this navy officer he's like hey hey, are you doing? I wasn't wearing anything except marines on it in his eye. Hey you're not allowed to be out here pity gear. Not on a military installations like but the navy. We don't like to pity in your work, This doesn't like it was like. It was odd.

the rules that they had their at the academy in John L, sent me over with the football team. Where couldn't you be with it with pity uniform? I utterly they didn't like peachy gear being out there and to comes a court like where they feel like reciprocally to complete our dear it's like I guess it's a ceremonial area like we are supposed to be like in the marine corps like everywhere, is a pg area. You know what I mean like ppg, wherever you want. You know what I mean like I'd, never been told, don't be out in front, of people in this area and pity gear, so that was cut out and then someone over the football team because it first What was I going to college football and I asked the coaches like hey, it's just like open practice. Is it cool? If I watch you know they never like getty yeah mate, you can come overwatch and it was coach, Paul Johnson, at the time,

and the strength, coach and stuff- and I went over there and you know the the kids on the on the football team, I would say yeah I felt out of place at the naval academy like like I didn't belong. There's no mines in the brochure hinders definitely no marine goodies and the brochure there were they're gonna use that word there. But, like you said to me, I was there. I just come from sniper school. I, but I have a different outlook, then a lot of the other folks. So I was over there like that. The midshipman on a football team like they they may they come over started to me asking me you know like hey, who are you? What are you doing cause? I want a uniform and I was like yeah, hey, I'm gone and that's how I introduce myself to like coach, Paul johnson them and I think like because the coaches aren't military, so I think they thought, like my first name- was gunning it still to this day. They call me gillani.

yeah, which I don't care uribe its end. Bob players and maggots stand up there watching these kids are going to compete on division. One level and they join the the academy with not really a lot hopes of go onto the nfl. But the kids on the team and and the athletes are there at the academy. Midshipman are I mean they're, just they are really good people gathered. I look at them just like they join or they just read a different brochure than I did and obviously scored like way higher on the SH t, because I never took that test yo remained, but they mean they were like really really good. Kids at the academy- and I just had a phenomenal experience- be in there with the

midshipman they late. They welcome with open arms the mitchell. I'm more phone: what job did you actually get assigned? I ended up being a senior unlisted advisor for thirty of company, as others, how many companies are thirty area, and I obviously Thirtieth company had like a bad rat before I got there remained so they had. I'm living on zero dac right next to the bad o. The battalion officer will the baton. Officer was ganem alan ash mark an alibi great guy. What the miller spill state up and pants vain ran cross country and he was in the captain and never really been around the navy captain, maybe not a lot of em. You interact with ships captain when I was a fool he didn't come down to, sell blogger, hang out slap spades, universal olenin bark pizza

We have ronan, you know what I mean and he he ran cross country. He was a surface warfare officer. He had the arlee bark the end up taking over sanch santo and beer I can imagine my kind of like being a ship captain. Is god Do you like a cool job so out and started come and run with me in the morning and he lay right there on the yard and like these, these battalion officers the houses that they get on the naval academy pretty bag. And he would have me over for dinner and stuff. I got to know his wife and kids. I mean he was just a super nice guy and and I have in this relationship with this, does not become this navy captain, even just a great guy. We really good friends. we're still friends this day, and he, about ready to roll out to go? Take us where the? U S, s, sand, jack and ass. He was

We've been, we were getting a new battalion officer coming in and he's like, hey said: JD is there which was kind of cool. The captain would call me JD and- and he was like- hey it's like- is there anything I can do for you like before I leave and I was like yeah: can you move thirty of the company up to eight four? So it's the highest point at the name, nobody goes to eight four plus the midshipman that have to walk the class every day. Then have the walk all the way to aid for like every single day, and you had a midshipmen have to chop. They call it chopping where they like brown and say, go navy beetle me and it did you see him when you run their speaking like they do, that is that punishment or is that a standard operating persistent robbery proceeds? I didn't know what ever do it later? Wait this for you go in class to class every time you square corner or something you gotta say like go on and go navy beat army shit like that yeah and they call it chopping. So it's like they're running in there in dress shoes, which makes absolutely no sense

but since the kind of her senses of the word is on what are these kids like we're? There call it at all. being an unlikely interesting. go navy beat army. Okay, I got it. So that's a lot of chop and get up to the top at eight, for you know what I mean so I knew nobody would come visit me. People are just lazy, you know what I mean like nobody's going to come up to eight four, I'm going to live up on eight, for it's going to be great for as a building yeah eight force like buying. Croft, all like when you saw bancroft. I was all the way and the very back it's all. I was the farthest away from two cups court as possible, and I was the closest to the football locker. As possible and the are the athletes and being assigned up there. I was a great place to be as it as a senior and listed

because, like I'm, not teaching these get like if you're an officer and you gotta get like I was there with randall, randal, their enemies. Company officer, like company officers, have to like teach stuff like they gotta go over to academia and teach doubly or they got it like deuce too teach doubly your and I gotta do is like hang out real time, mentor, yeah and hang out and just be there for the kids if they need anything and anna work with a navy lieutenant great guy. It was a lot of fun, but I mean so when the kids go to class, it's like you got nothing to do, but you ve got an olympic poor. You ve got batting ages, you got football package, you got an indoor track. You got a sailing centre, ye gods for field. You got a rifle team. You got like dude, I didn't it was, can I mean I've literally, I was I was back. It can accept like they have like that, ass facilities

known to, may I go out and throw BP for the baseball I go out and do your batting practice get to know the kids yoda. going through that they had questions about you join in the marine corps and latin, and especially with the football team one thing that I learned. There's like you, the football players, don't have to do like the the fry, parades, and they get out of a lot of other stuff. They do their own meals and staff, and I think yeah, there's a lot of folks that don't under stand what it takes to compete at the vision, one level football You mean like together, athletes get out of that stuff to no not like football gets out wouldn't really like the rustlers, now soccer players now. So it's just for

yeah. I mean the other, like the other sports teams, that they ve got a game. They'll get out a somethin but like football is, is looked at mean is looked at different. at the academy and then your higher in a coach like coach, Paul Johnson, they came from george attack. Great guy he's the highs a guy in the navy like this dude makes more than the c and it is like. The head coach at army makes more than the chief of staff of the army, which kind of puts stuff into perspective. You know what I mean like wait, a minute man. I make more money, be the head coach at babies and see what I mean like like this dude driving a new geller submarine domain, but the football coach- I go can near my that's there right now, great guy. He was o line coach. When I was there. this is just do a job. I get hired. Do a job compete at a division, one level Pakistan's and the football

because of the amount of money that they make you stadiums ticket sales. The blank page for a lot of the other sports programs to be able to take place. It's gotta be recruiting too. They probably take recruiting budgets, probably paying that coach's salary yeah so and the coaches are great and the kids that they get all night football team. I mean you, people are like. Oh, they get out of the friday afternoon, heard across Grass remain like really they're up at five o clock in the morning. They gotta watch films. It got tapes, they got practice, they got wage, they got a mean they have to perform, I'm going to mean on Saturday there weakens their thanksgiving. If they get a bowl game, you know what they sacrifice to be able to play: division, one football and then go serve their country just like everybody else, so they're just they're on a different aspect. I think some of the folks just don't they don't look at it that way, but the student athletes at the academy are phenomenal. I mean they're just at one, the team players. You know what I mean like if

If you leave a team sport from the academy and enjoyed the marine corps, it's very easy transition because you just leaving wanting it you're. Just joining another saying that the athletes, transition really well into the marine corps, and yet, as I just take it that the kids that were on the team a day I had like a lot of fun. with those kids and then you know some of them when they select marines at the end of the year. You got like oh long guys, you got defensive, lie guys that have never run farther than a hundred yards in their life, and now in the end the football season and oh hey by the way you gotta meet height and weight standards by may that's a that's hard for some of the guys that go to buds. You know they gotta like totally change their physique, like they gotta to become a different kind of human being, or I got one friend that was

naval carry me, play football and how is a nickname but he's a big guy in when I know he's a big guy like a legal, big guy but apparently I don't know me, play football, but he had to like change. he was as a human being to get from play him. Whenever friggin line men at the naval academy to go and run, you know twelve miles and we're miles and six miles, and you know like all that running since the toll you do you're different human. Yet that's a challenge and you're gonna teach them how to run like you know it's some of them. Just they don't we I mean, there's a big difference between spreading a hundred yards and running three miles and then about what you're gonna go to tb ass, yoda, specific I, but even if their. If, therefore, if they're surface warfare goin now I mean that's a big transition for a lot those guys that are out there and

and I would recommend a mile and a half the only thing that I could do my biggest shock when I was at the academy was like. I was talking to some of the Mitch in one of his eyes: jason copeland he's a marine lieutenant colonel. Now he saved chub type matter, great human being so jason I was, I hate- was put- we get goin on more money, like you guys get your physical fitness testa hard, because I did know like what these kids did and he's like yeah, we'll meet out by the by the farragut and go to the pt department, takes care of of the the physical fitness test and they run the prt, and I was like oh yeah. What is it? You know what I mean What we do is push ups sit ups and then we do a mile and a half run as I, okay, that's cool! What time do you go? I I'd like to come out what most of the staff they're like. Why solely in the more like. Why? Why are you? Gonna worry you'll have to go. I was like Y know. I don't have to go, but I should go and run with the kids

So I I showed up and they do each battalion. So there's six battalions and each battalion gets it ay and they show up and there's yo five battalions in five companies in each battalion, they're gonna run five physical readiness tests Do I show up and their only gonna run a mile and a half so so for males like what we give ass, the p guy, like e g caravan. Like run witham them run with them. The only like I'll do ten. de pace just run along and you'd been kind of give the kids and earmark of like, where a mac, as I do that a cyber school like if I I run the three mile and, unlike hey, I'm gonna, run right at a of what is a twenty thirty pace. so for three miles. I'm gonna run it and twenty minutes and thirty seconds, because that's worth eighty five points. So if you- see J d he's worth. Eighty five points, if you're in front of me, because it's all the numbers game, if you're not gonna, pull up you better bank and on the run, if you're,

yeah I mean so it's your strength Why is this so? I was, I can now say: ok, this is the naval academy like it's only a mile and a half, you gotta do it and ten thirty that segment of pace mats, breezy, so as I'm out there and I'm watching the kids and I'm runnin along with them, I go along and I'm like hey we're we're where these guys go unlike their fallen out. Like words, only a mile and a half after their fall out, and I was just like: will they they failed like they didn't pass the rollins. So I go over to the PE department, I'm kind of like so what happens to these kids many like pack, their shit? They done no remediate. You know what I mean they're, going to remediate the hell out of them and- and I always thought well. This is something that I could help out. You know I can. I can come out and run with these kids. And so I used to go wrong when they do the priorities for the for the brigade of midshipman, I would run thirty of them back to back a temporary pace and I was like only five

day, so you may is generally not that horror is only like a eight have miles you may do so and in for me, I'm not runner. I just have a running problem that you would remain so for me like that, that seven minute pace was yeah. It's a pretty good workout for me. I'd come out and I would run with the kid in car you're remaining in go come, help him and play like if they're gonna fall back. This is something that I can actually get help out with the naval kind of there's a kids struggling with a mile and a half. I can help him out and get him to pass so that, because once he goes to the fleet and he's in the navy, that's not a required ten thirty's, not a requirement in the fleet. It's just the naval academy requirement for office. So, but hopefully so are the to do that with the kids and I would get excited, remained to go out round. The the p parties with the midshipman cause. I mean it was hysterical. Just

you're watching them further a mile and a half. How is the the psychological moulding of the guys? Are their people or their kids? that are going to naval, can be compared to what you saw at bookshop or its yeah there? Still it's it's the country club, yeah. I would say it's kind of like being a catholic school and you're. Just not you know what I mean: you're, a nun and yeah it's it's, it's not yet night and day you they do plebe summer, that's there, but it's the it's the the upper class ass our kind of run and plead summer, and they do it. I mean I do a pretty good job, but they're not drill instructors. They're, not smoking! It out there, not that this, in all, isn't as much, but that they do. They do a pretty good job with them.

As a plebe summer and you know and be in a plebe at the naval academy to me was like two that just does not look like fuck yeah. It looks awful like at all one I gotta say: go navy beat army and chop around the place in my dress, shoes, No liberty, I don't get the really do anything. I go now. Wage that they push on those kids. There, though, in the end, the education level is phenomenal and then I would say, like the the the camaraderie of of each class is just is outstanding. With the naval academy of bringing those kids together you sharing and This in the suffering together all for years at the academy, but it It's a great institution and they put out a great product, my opinion- probably the best Watch was are What's it wanted to go special warfare navy seals?

was the most while I was there. Yo Randal was a lieutenant. He can a ran that pre by it's kind of selection process are tight selection. Ah is the most compelling he's got like a couple hundred kids wannabe amused We are thousand of them. In a couple of hundred, I want to become a seal yeah and there's like fifteen billets yeah, I'm like that fifteen slots yeah I've been its. We always been cool I've done with during covert. I did some some virtual training with the with the midshipmen I've gone. There live, it's been awesome to go up, there live and- and just you know talk about leadership. From my perspective and their definition, on it very cool, but the other competitive, as for the sea or billets in any whether your authority in the any officer sailboats, is its hordes of very, very difficult, probably well, because the recruiting, because so many people want to go into too that job.

It's a rough job to get into here. I would say there, but what those kids would you know that thing? that I learned. Why was there? It was kind of disappointing for me being a marine was the the marines selection, so you would have like you know. I mean let's say you got one hundred kids, that put they want to go navy seals as their number one choice and then marine ground as their second. And you would have marines the work on the that's bullshit, remain if they're, not mine. First, we don't want, unlike these kids are going after, like if jerry was there who wouldn't it's the naval academy man like me. They want to go navy seal they're, going to compete for the hardest billet going at least physical yeah, that's actually another way to look at. It is pay. These guys want the hardest possible job and they're trying to get the heart, though the most selective thing so there take. Most selective thing: that's the seal! Billet! They don't get that

yeah, because that is horrible and I had a I've, had a bunch of france. You know that graduated from naval academy that had to make that call- and it's so harming leaf didn't get selected oliver naval gaddafi drafted get secular out of them and they both went to you know or ship and that's a different path. now. The type that is gonna be a ship as well as a different hue. One type of mindset, then someone that's gonna, be kind of a land soldier. He know There's a marine or a special operations guy. It's a different type of mindset have to have, and so both I forget I have to ask wave again, but you get told Same thing. Is I pay either it's it's a waste to put marine corps after seals pursued yours, it's not gonna get taken and laughing would have loved if he didn't make it an seals. But you know. he probably would have gotten picked up for the marine corps and probably would have never joined the seal teams and the marine corps and had a cool officer

yeah, I mean it's not like. I knew a lot of these kids like I would come out like because I would run every morning at five you re, so I'd go run and an array a lot like they had a marathon team that was there at the academy, so I became like the o for them so, like the naval academy would like flies around, so we were doing chicago or do in Boston, we're doing disney. You mean like with the midshipman and, and you know they knew like midshipman can't leave the yard, but at their runnin with may, then Allow me just say: I'm gonna remain in right out the gate. We'd go run through town. are there not just do. Unlike our is around the academy and stuff- and I am you would see just the commitment that those kids had that are trying to compete those belts to include the eu develops as well all that are coming out, as it shows a naval officer to get those billets are very hard to get and for us to like me out on some of those guys guys that ok, that's great

maybe see or whatever, for the first choice. They want marine second choice, like they're good be good like you and me like that, they let me set out on one of these selection boards, which was very I'd, never been on an officer select seals, luxembourg non smoker and always I like these little hidden buttons. You know what I of whether or not like you want to vote like yes or no, which I kind of thought was bullshit that were kind of hiding the button dude I bought right out front everybody you're like nope. Don't like that one everybody can see. It will remain that old. Jd doesn't like him, nope, don't like him and at this. There's this one kid anything nice he's. It was a nice kid but there's a lot of nice kids. That should be a marine officer, and this this this guy, like

we're in there and colonel inman was the senior marine on the yard at the time and and kernel a great guy went to the university of Oklahoma, just a phenomenal guy and he's the one that had me in there he's like yeah, hey JD would like your input. You know a lot of these kids. It was like okay, yeah cool I've I've I've never been in here before so I'm sitting there looking at it got to show a picture and somebody's going to brief their package kind of thing, and then you do the little hidden vote and then they see on the board. Okay, yeah, this guy got enough votes he's going to go in,

oh paul, so he's just going to go into gopal. They got this one kid that that they put up on there and I'm like off Scott nice kid c bag with lips like tbs, is going to crushing again what I mean like he's, the the hearts. There is just there he's just he's, not gonna work out as a marine officer in maine. He doesn't put that he doesn't have the self discipline. So, of course I hit the no and he goes to the gopal, so I'm a little shocked I would like you to give it a shot like who who voted? For that? Like does anybody here like no him like no shit like you know, the guy like I've. Seen him out there on the remedial physical fitness field in trying to pass a ten thirty, like I looked at it as if if we're gonna stamp a kid with the low and star from the naval academy, we're gonna send him down a tb ass. Then all

my peers that know that, on at the naval academy, like others J, these guys, you and me don't want J t name on this gap as he's not gonna farewell when they do the physical fitness aspects. It he's like what I mean it's it's a we dont disclose whose vote and others like an obvious years? Like does anybody know this kid like? I know this kid like he's setting him up for failure and base Finally, parliament says bulge. Eighty he's he's legacy. Might okay? Well, that's a new want. What what's what's? Legacy was dab murray officer, So then I was, I guess, we're getting flounder. Memory animal house. One year they flounder gazebo legacy, what happened to her in the marine corps because a legacy I thought that was caught, I mean I scouted major league baseball. Do I get in just cause legacy? You know what I mean like that shouldn't do. That was that was a little bit

disappointing to see that we should not play a role. It should play a role. If anything, they should be harder on him. You would think yes, so but other than that. I got the cost cos thing happened to me. While I was there, I was coming out of football practice. It was a class of two thousand year of two thousand and five and a couple of The football players are like hey. They were like gunny, hey man you're going to graduate with us. So what do you mean? I'm going to graduate what I like physical fitness yoga to me, like they're, giving me a pe award and stuff he's like nope. We voted you to be our honorary graduate and graduate with the class two thousand and five and it's it's voted by the mid ship, which was like That was the coolest that's cool, saying over what kind of What do they normally vote for that not guys? you mean, like I did a little bit like it's normally like some professor or some other officer, yo remain kind of other thing.

He class two thousand find five glossed over. I just want to a marine corps ball without lieutenant colonel Adam whore eyes got fifty three Squadron doubted jerry point when he became the. Quadrant seo. He called me knees. I like a JD. I want you to be the biggest speaker and or paul I might I mean he goes, I'm finally in charge, and I get to pick the guy come in and I was like dude. I was never like in the airway. Don't give two shits your comment because his ear, and when I was down there with ever made a cave from like I join the marines because of this guy and- and it was great for one for the Enlisted mines were in his squadron to see and enlisted marine haven't a relationship with their ceo. They, like that we could be friends, I like we were on the same team. I do it's it's a great organization and and and great to be a part of, and then after that

got accepted into the alumni with the naval academy. They allowed me in the alumni Rahman alumnus with the quantico chapter. Would you It was like a ring knocker. Did you get a rank? No, I didn't well, I got three of them. I got three bowl rings with the football team yeah. I did that. I'm really not a ring guy. I thought about it. Some of the folks at the academy were like yeah man. We gotta get gunny ring and you will remain an and I tell you what they expect. Is it the naval academy I mean was was phenomenal. I can't say enough: I mean ever every organization has has problems, but for what those midshipman due for for what they give you they're getting a four year, education and in the service that they give back what the that solution

If they got for love without their hands, if they make they make them pay for that they should go to yeah they're paying for it. But they're. Like I mean they are quality americans and that's all the the surface cat. I would say I mean they're just to have a great group. Individuals are, I mean I had a complete ball at the academy knots it I've have gone to west point talked to them- have gone to air force academy and talked to them. It's just yuck, very cool, very cool thing. To look at what happened with the special mission unit, you were gonna select for well day in two thousand and three, so they what they call it: a leather neck programme where they take the midshipman that want to select marine corps. their junior year, and I take him to quantico because given little taste yeah because there. The only like the naval academy doesn't have to go to. Oh, she s, which

How would you see, but that is a little bit Contention, Oh, she s yeah. I think they yeah. They say, oh well, we want to plead summer. Well guess what plead summer is not marine corps officer cancel As you know, it's not even naval officer can decide on I'm in verona, I don't know I'm you said I know I don't know. I know that marine gross, yes or sorry, navy, Yossi S was, was cool and a good indoctrination for me. I me out on how it compares to plead summer, whatever I don't know, but the I'll take it word for it. If you say it's not quite the same thing, It's the I'd rather go through elsie asked in four years, snaefell out of here, always like grind any day of the week, so like the the merino cr. So you know it's just like with anything else they're going to show up at tbs, and you know, oh, I had to go through lcs and, and you guys didn't. To go through us. Yes, there was a lot of midshipman that wanted to go through. Oh she s, because they

ive heard you have a domain, and I was just like look guys. You gotta make sure you don't go through lcs. What the shit that you know. What You ve had for years at the academy, some of the votes I do go to lcs ass. They went to a regular colleagues. I didn't have to put up a lot of crap that you guys are having to put up with while you're here, yeah yeah, the do summer cruises your competing for the ability to be a marine officer which is pretty cool ass. We take about a tb ass. They call a leather knack. We call it purging the squid just because yeah I mean the naval academy is set up as a surface warfare officer school I mean that's, that's what it is: you're making surface warfare officers and there's no marines and the brochure, so we they come down there. We go put him through a little bit of yo the land navigation, a little bit of the field, skill staff, a little bit of the fire team and squad patrolling kind of thing, and then they got yeah marine officers and they got second lieutenant just graduated CBS that work with the midshipman and

Do evaluations on some of these kids to see how well play with others made how serious they are always leather, neck leather neck is that's a good question might be like. Four to six weeks is really not out on, but neither is neither associates so that they come down and they run through the leather neck programme, and I got set down, took two quantico to one at first There was a lot of contents because people are like. Oh, you, gotta do plebe summer, everybody comes here, you gotta do plebe summer and I was like well gen. Allen said I didn't have to do plebe summer and I'm going down why just go watch plebe summer, basically like monitor yeah like monitor at work at as a senior enlisted audio domain, it's kind of like yo indoctrination of being a senior enlisted. You know there was. There was some cool guys that were up there at the academy, but I really wasn't in the the whole if mass gonna think

like, I did, want to go downtown annapolis. Do apart crawl in that kind of stuff, and so Didn't maxwell was so. May I go along with a lot of the folks Bonn that just didn't mix as well. with a lot of the others, some of them that us vs them mentality. Us like us, the carbon and ass for the reasons that led shipowner, like let's sit around and see how much weakened like making is miserable. Like do these kids, gotta measurable enough man? and their here and just because they are coming to the academy, and yet it's a good gig. I mean they get a lot cool staff at the academy knew they got like a silver spoon coming out of every orifice of their party Amelia. Who else gets to go and like summer camp on trips and you get to go it like air wing unit you get to fly over. I mean I do some cool stuff at the academy and I think it's just Jealousy of the others a lotta achieves,

god easier, you didn't get that opportunity and they just want to stick to the midshipman as much as they can and end like like what they call like fry em like bay It's like an n j p, but not in J p. They call it a fry. Well also, it's going to do to that ketamine. So the kid did something stupid. I mean their kids, that's going to hurt their order of merit. yo to me like unless they're doing something like grievous. You know what I mean like like come on. Man, like you know, the kid was yeah he's, he's a kid a lotta times. I think some of the folks forget that that they didn't want to see JD when he's eighteen, nineteen and so yeah those kind of fucks, the those us vs them mentality of of with the midshipman, and I tell you what the the midshipman they made. my experience at the academy. Enjoyable, if wasn't for them, I wouldn't have been as far I had a ball so either

than a leather neck for the summer and they were gone out to do some munitions and ears. Seek you beast after coming in and doing now, the mouth there and know will, the guys act. So that was a charge. The major was downers eyes calls. I was Pedro, leaves a pilot, great guy, major brown and he's like hey watch come out man and in place to munitions with the midshipman, while they're kind of taking them through the mouth zone. I was like yeah, I'm there like, I love what simulations. In my I mean it's bought me yeah, so a barren and I ended up gettin up in the third storey and one of the rafters. I am one of the buildings and make my way through the after having a ball shoot mitch, at men, sniper yeah of egypt and I'm slick so I got no, how would I got nothin, I'm just I'm having a ball it's a great day and then being break.

I came out of the out of the third storey, fell three stories and just hit like us. Sack of cmos break of the rafters that you're at yeah, you know how, like the rafters are when you, when you go back and look at the rat, they were yeah. It's government they were just put in with like long staples, so the rafters weren't, but necessarily like for me to get. They were kind of like how did he even get in the rafters because, like when you went to the third store. There was just like I caught out like you, you got like a fake, feeling like a fake ceiling with the little cut out like you have in some people's garages. You know what I mean and you can push up and put a ladder in and put storage. So I just ran and hit the wall jumped up grabbed, pulled myself up and got up into the rafters. You know what I mean so yeah. I got up there and then once I was up in there. I was coming out in turkey peak in trying to figure out where the mid shipman we're moving around in the town and put my hand and bone god. Rafters came out. I came down three stories.

I'm! You went down three stories and not just falling from. Does you now like them? How has like a building that looks like it's boulogne off the air, so there was nothing there occur, so I am now and yet hit went down the who the head with the left, shoulder and then just down a lifestyle by of suggest body. The bad thing was, I did not myself out I mean you're like when you go see the doc and they're like so on a pain scale of one to ten like where are they do yeah? This is a chat like just that it hurt and they re better back me out and took me in and guide. I shudder. My left shoulder broke a couple ribs on the left side of broke, my pelvis and three spots and left ankle and was

gold from a hundred miles an hour to zero and in an instant I ended up in a wheelchair, which was that that point laura start, why I didn't like being in wheelchair, like man that that was terrible? I mean I was I was coming unglued. I wish to state was a bad, a bad. top gear, I didn't want to hear the whole. Oh everything happens for a reason, kind of thing like that. What flying with me at the time and just because I I thought that yeah, something that I was hoping to do that fall and was now gone. And then yet the navy dogs at are taken care of me here. They were kind of great guys, but

one of the navy doctors commander the ages- I god I don't know if you know you're running and that kind of thing that that's gonna be happening. And a way I I didn't like that of telling me that that's not going to happen so I went in and at walter reed they re dead. My shoulder the first time and I had to get like a bone graph and stuff put in and and sub screws So I get that done at walter reed, which now was back then when it was like a dungeon beer would before it hit. The news of housetop went down I come out of there and then it happened in the summer of two thousand and three and january of two thousand and four I signed up and went with the navy team to run the disney marathon cause. I was like damn umbreon it I had already

and running being at the naval academy with their athletic department and trainers and stop that they had. May they had me like awkward jaw, gan resistance, starfleet domain and end the elliptical, an annex- Yes, some guys would comment because, like awkward jogging is boring, ashore, at the o like it's boring, but I'd have gas come in and get the pool with me because I'm just trying to get back. I'm still focused like hey. I still got a shot, I mean I can get better, so yeah that happened in june the summer. In january I went down and a through Nineteen disney not my best time, but I was published pretty stoked with a three nineteen, and I came back with that big stupid. Daphne mad older, they give you. I threw it on the commanders task and I was like there's your fuckin phd. Don't tell me, I can't run and a course

That's why you guess doctor's orders kind of a thing. They got me new doc, the new doktor god he was great. He was I get. Sure body so that the human bodies and amazing machine you can go, get yourself back and get yourself fit so I started next back in the pool swimmin over their view of the immense one team was phenomenal, nay That guy relegates one programme there and the coach was great I to like to go and swung the team. and I was in there swimming. I got out of the shower one day and I was as I was like showering on my shoulder like something that was coming out, the back of my shoulder. While so I go over to the football locker they put the x ray on, I got screws coming out back to the hospital you'll be. My body was refused some of the screws come in. I went through rehab with that for the sake shoulder operation and

What general Allen he was kind of my sponsor he had been moved on, he was up at the pentagon, is one star of the pentagon and finally, yo journal and call me up to the Pentagon uneasy because they put me up navy board mad and- and I went up and get jobs like were where do you want to go cause you're? Not you're done like it or not, there was a lack of capacity on any kind of job. Physical nothin yet make map, I yeah, even the shoulder had gotten bad enough to where they were like dude. You keep monkeying around like you're, going to lose mobility so that the kind of got the realism in there and get it with him. I was hanging out the academy in and and then next thing you know, I got a call from the monitor many knox call me, and I was actually at a ball game and sandy

I go higher with the navy football and he called me and he's like hey, JD we'd, like you to come back down to quantico and and yeah oversee the schools. they add sniper school http, harass personnel, it's basically pistol shooting and spain attire small arms weapons, shorter course of breach your school so asked me if I do come back down and I was literally certain right downtown san, diego and unlike dude, I'm in a bowl game with names For war and heard you want you ve come back, you think I want to go via satellite I'll call you wanna get done out here? I came back and maybe not sigh gave me mass jordan. Let me give you up a pen up and put me on February first and I went back down quantico and gave him a couple more years back down at the schoolhouse as a mass are and then left it at twenty one, and I think it was a

It was good for me to be down there. The colonel that I was workin fours might mall against great guy and I might again trying to get me ready for for transition lange I didn't know this was not the plan. Yeah. I wanted to stay at camp as long as possible until I get like thirty years and then retire or you know make all the way to ie nine cause that was a he ate and and yeah it wasn't that replies are really. I did know like what what I was gonna, do and probably the the biggest aspect of others. My wife tracy Tom she's, like you can you can do. Stop means one thing. She'll get me she's, like you work you're, gonna show up, you're gonna work yeah, one of the guys that taught me back in the day to cast my net widely Erik karlsson. He called

name was like a man. Do you I didn't contract work with if drew up its yeah special weapons sniper rifle stuff, like that. You workin for EL three communications. So oh man I was I gotta, do I have to like to have the wooden have to do is. Why are we got out like a panel interview, kind of thing and so I go out to sea Eric and everybody on the panel I served with all of the memorial. It was like a going home kind of waves like all these dudes are there and it's just like this is preliminary. And so Eric you brought me in, and I mean he took care of me. I gave me a job because again it didn't. I didn't really know what I was going to do. So, how long did you do that contracting job for a couple of years and then What how did you end up forming o emanate, which is your eliminate international, which is you're leadership, company separating the hot yeah yeah? I guess

its experiential brown, spread, spiritual learning, and so it was. It was at el three and europe, in the marine corps go I had opportunity because of some of the officers serve with the? Let me tag along in and go on. Some staff rides historic, which was like soup, romania, to over study in okinawa, the battle over their seeing the reverse slope. Defence of the japanese, like what we kind of went through the philippines Korea remains so just reading and then getting to go to these places and actually stand on the exact spot. Where work. Had been and, like I said, I'd I'd read quite a bit. You remember reading no hack worth back in the day, those kind of guys we're just very influential. on me in leadership, and it was just a

It was kind of like a an inexperienced to where you know it's not in a classroom. It's not you're actually, on the field, it's very it's very hands on kind of of of learning and and learning how to lead. And so I started with with amna of it, started to realize that we could do staff right outside of the marine corps. Like there's a there's, there's other organizations that are out there. You know like at the naval academy we take the kids to antietam yeah, I mean they could do it as a weekend trip. We could take advantage of me at John Allen. He was a big history. Guy marine officer, of course, love staff rides. You know gettysburg in

the big one corporal Seamus garrity, used to live up in gettysburg up there, we called it marine barracks gettysburg. You know what I mean, so they was going to gettysburg the experiential stuff of overseas. You know the marine corps was always big on this. With doing staff rides and they were a lot of fun. so again the same guy air karlsson, had been dealing with the wild land fire fires, guys hotshots smoke, shoppers engine, crew, cod, guys and I guess they had had a couple of fatality fires. So they did a try data study and they earmarked and went around and looked at different organizations of how they teach leadership and they ended up at marine corps university and air karlsson was the operations officer and air and they call it over and craig huddleston, whose, with armed as well

is another one of my great mentors and craig was over at our command and staff, and they were like hey. You might have some firefighter guys come tag along, go to gettysburg sure them So they went up the gettysburg and when they saw how the marine corps just took a pilot dirt, what we call it rain model, they were like, while the sprit cheap, we ve got a lot of dirt, and- and there were so many similarities between wild land fire fighting in the marine corps. Yo hotshot, as in every Jupiter, yo and engine is like artillery, they ve got aviation, they got logistics, they ve got incident commanders and they were putting people in harm's way. they're making plans their use terrain models in their send invokes out just like on a military operation, so they really bought into this staff ride. Concept, as well as the the naval academy. so the naval academy

thy Joe Thomas, who still up there with the leadership and ethics great guy, retire, murray, lieutenant colonel pennsylvania, Joe in them. mean we ve taken the naval academy up to gettysburg, because the team captains with the football and all the sports that we're up there were like hey. We got a guy that can take the team captains and taken it gettysburg, so yeah through an aaa. I took the team captains up there because Yola. I knew a lot of the coaches, because obviously I spent a lotta time at their facilities red car playing around and I just started like it at first It was kind of a kind of something fun to do. I didn't know how to run a business so are based wiggly, went on line of vehicles. You could find everything online and like how do you start a business, tat com and then you're? Ok, where you gotta pee gotta pick a name

You gotta get a dance number. You gotta get a tan, you gotta get. Yes, there was a lot of reading involved because I had No clue like how do you get a businesslike I mean it's just amazing, like I, I became. So more educated, yo domain of just starting a business and in getting quit books like how do you do tat says. How do you run payroll like? How do you know what I mean yeah, you want to learn a lot of stuff start. Some businesses start our business start with just one you're going to learn a lot. Yeah I've I've just just got I don't hit, but even like. I think that's what I know the fur business that I started was this Jim, that worst weren't today and the amount of learning that you do and then you know your next. Business? You already have some of those lessons learned. You can apply them and then the next business after that one you can apply some more and yeah, but if you're a

young person ordered or you just got out of you know the service started business. I don't care. If you do, you know you sell, you know close pins or somethin painted cause pence. If you start a business, this cell painted close bends due to learn a ton you're no longer time, and You might make some money long away, you my loose money, but you can learn a lot, that's for sure, and this how you and I eventually linked because it s long front, we wanted to do what we call we have battlefield and we wanted to have either an expert that has more knowledge about the battle than we do, and That's how better we linked up for the four time which was awesome. Yeah yeah, we so we started out so I've had the company since twenty ten and nah stands for one man, national asset, and I learned from from our grey but before you decide what you're gonna do

decide who you do on it with an air karlsson, the same guy, I mean he's of where's, I'm going to do everything with erica. I lived three quarters of a mile from our tracks and still to this day I run past his house. In the morning I mean he's huge impact, and, and now the craig huddleston, craig how to citizens is being made on the world. He went from e one to IE. Seven, two o one too, oh said, ex low over thirty three. It was a droll instructor. I mean he's just cite he's like one of those guys just did everything. You remain a dead letter, war of the british commandos over in Europe mean he's just the most interesting man in the world and yet he's still up downhill ski instructor angel fire. New mexico is in his seventies, made you wouldn't know it the guys. Just he doesn't stop here.

impact on me. In my life and then all the other guys did that that work with omelette yo a course. Yet we start out with with might and then we We started expanding to wear like in wild land fire they were like. Can we develop staff rights for wildlife fire? So you got like south canyon, fatality fires, the The dude fire down in an arizona you've got what the movie came out with only the brave was about the Yarnell hill fire. We felt that staff right. That's what I was just that last week doing those because, like I said I mean it's, it's it's spiritual leadership and not necessarily it's. It's armchair quarter backing the events, but you're not there to refine the fire fiery fight the battle you're there too, to take a step back and look at the leadership decisions that were made and and how could? How could we learn from that? How can we move forward and then like

teaming up with with you guys. You know what I mean like. I can remember when I, when I first were like Steve jason, who I love, because they are just classic characters and like when we got done with the first staff ride. You know a few years back and at where we're sitting in the in the room and and and they're like dude. This was so much fun like the interaction with the participants that are there, the people you get the meat. I mainly remember, for I mean some of the folks. I mean they even came back and did little big horn. As you know, and and just the sperience on the leadership aspect of experiencing at that their to me, you just can't get from classroom. Yuki can't get it from a book

you know when you're standing a year in the peach orchard at gettysburg, any in the discussions that your having of I mean everybody has a dance cycles in their organisation, everybody just for for ten thousand years, ve been trying to figure out how to deal with people. and and delivering of staff ride it so memorable like of being there and the outs just so. We basically develop the business around experiential staff rights an end. We do it for you, no fish, and why life, u s for a service empty and why the san diego lifeguards at san, diego lifeguards, the gettysburg, which was like super cool, I guess you're a great by, guys- and I learn more from them than they probably did for me. Like I didn't know they were sworn officers and could write tickets, but they don't get a gun. Talk about

the ability to to use your your your communication skills you'd, better, be pretty good. You know what I mean and yeah bringing them to gettysburg everybody's, like you know, gettysburg of like who are these like there, lifeguards like from san diego, like I mean the whole baywatch, I mean the guys who are just phenomenal. People in and we do a lot orange county. I know you ve done stuff with orange county, far authority of the road, but then we meat like the smoke jumpers and the hot shots, that's like kind of like these people like if we would have had discovery channel like when you- and I were kids in the eighties and I would have seemed like wait a minute. I can get paid money to get a chainsaw which are always fun to and you're good the job arbiter in the middle of nowhere and fight fire and I'm gonna get paid like that's bad. And just were the hot shots I they were going to put me in a buggy we're going to ride around with, like twenty to thirty other men and women that just want to get after

only with a polanski rain and fight wild land fire. I mean what means they're just great pete, thereby they provide a great sir, as to the contribution of grown up for genuine for genuine. We don't have, while I'm far like here, Everybody out here. You all and colleagues know what why my virus course through yeah, but yet that would beasts you're, cool job and they're, just great people rather freakin hard job. You- and I were talking earlier today and just when when you been in the military, you look at a hill. Know what it takes to walk up a hill. Appreciate hills and those why by fire guys man, they, I have a guy that guided me a couple hans and he's a while that fire guy- and I mean you wanna talk about it,

decker. Half out some miles were hooker institute witnesses like ok, I mean with no expression on his face. Do no other than like were like, where, where we go next, no factor like no factor has put some miles in the desert. Like mountain goat I made an eight year with like gas cans and a guy like chain saws. I mean it: it's in there just a great community of people, the experts. I do. I do a lot with those folks and a knave expanded where now with armed and now we ve got former, I got it for her. Shots form, a wild land, firefighters about former force, ranger he remained mean that she works with us. I mean just that of the people I've had the opportunity to me over the past twelve years Doing this, I made it it's just it's amazing iron didn't of like I enjoy the hell out of it, which makes it even better what

we'll have to go to a cubicle and remain we get there Yeah, let's make my wife's like what are you doing over their work allegedly know you're reading a book, that's my job to read! Well, You know we were lucky enough to link up in in and we ve been out. We bring a lot of corporate, people, and we bring every everyone in a lot of corporate people on a business people in that go through these staff rides and pass on. lessons learned then there's so much to learn from from these events and the leadership and personalities and people that undergo them and I was talking to you and I always feel kind of- elfish, because I get the hang out with you and I was then learn from these battlefields- and these battles and I thought to myself hey. Maybe we should try to extend this knowledge to more people, so we came up with the idea

of doing a series of podcasts about the civil war battles and just so. Everybody knows where Gretel we're doing we're. Gonna we're gonna put together series of podcasts about the civil war which can be on this this part as feed- it's gonna, be job. Well, podcast civil war excursion cause it's gonna, no there's some people at my guy. If you like was in a civil war, and if you dont want to listen to it, that's fine. You probably will its sitting you're talking you. It's me, it's like! China? I can't wait. I can't wait to pull this ring on your back. Will you just start talking about civil war and battles and personalities, man, its awesome and yeah you? you're in a bunch of from J D on this feed What would we must remove anything else? That's it! That's that's I

I will I one I'll talk to you like at one the first times when your book came out extreme ownership and, of course, I'd read it and I had some of the folks that I deal with that. That was like a pre reed. there's a lot of the people that we deal with your we we encourage reading. Less! In any organization like everybody should read that was one of the books, extreme ownership, part of us going a little beggar, so when you actually look out at after the fact, and I im with you and all that with the guys with an echelon front. Do it now, when you look at like the battlefield, you could be like. Well, that definitely did not. Waiting, extra, remote or alia. Bhatt alia mean it's crazy to go out, and you know I used to tell the platoons when I was taking, the platoon to land warfare or urban training. I'd say, look the! I know the mistakes you're going to make. I already know the mistakes you're going to make and you're you know, you're not going to cover move you're gonna, make things too complicated, you're, not

We have tried to do two things at once. You're gonna have central as command. Everything's gonna fall apart. If you follow these simple rules, you're gonna do good answer. Oh crazy, to look back at history and look back at gettysburg, little bighorn and you can see out no govern move. Readier everything falls apart. Oh they too complicated. Everything falls apart, o the trend you too many things I want. Everything falls part the commanders trying to direct every single person. Everything falls by the same mistakes. Give made. In the civil war. In for more to korea, vietnam, you any war, pretty much the same mistake you made the same leadership, makes mistakes made an. crazy as though the same leadership mistakes are made in any organisation in any organisation its they don't support each other. They make things too complicated. They. Figure out their priorities. They don't focus their efforts and date. try and centralized and control everything and all those things are bad and when you come out

we we the next thing we're doing with you when you look at the data, it's what we got. now battlefield is march twenty first through the twenty third on the hollowed grounds, gettysburg You know there is a whole. I say this with jason yo jason was aunt. There's like a spiritual side to this. There's a leadership, sure We go on to that battlefield and you you, you feel the sacrifice that was made and it's very powerful. Both the gettysburg, a little bigger horn, I'm sure we'll do a bunch of other battlefields in the future. But if anybody wants to come to walk the battlefield with us, the echelon front, dot com check out the next bf battlefield, it's march, twenty first to twenty third for your company for for amna

the armed dot com. So you do you do stuff all over the place. You run a bunch of these events. Your people run a bunch of these events, you're on to graham the underscore international you're on facebook, omni international llc best want to find you that's where they can find you and that's where you can find some that you guys are running, which is awesome, what else echo. You gonna think any questions or what what european report, maybe I was at navy two thousand and three and left two thousand and six over there cause we'd play them a lot. I I played it with why, so that we are in the same conference, oh yeah, that's where the head coach navy can near but he quarterback in hawaii did you did you play the naval carry me you played against them with I didn't play the game though, but we played them. The other team did. But I personally did not you on the bench kind of ls. Read charity!

but yeah, but those little bit before their time. Ninety five to ninety ok, did you get special treatment are universally wide enough about it. They do need in them and that makes sense to cause a lot of them. Football brings in a lot of the money you know, so you you have that dynamic. For sure there will be? No, when you look at those at the four division, one complete- I remember, Like I had a lot of cool opportunities like I got to travel with the team so like we go played notre dame I mean it's big, the school that's big programme made It's all I over, because I'm gonna I can just go wherever I want, so I go over to their locker room size of those dues like compared naval academy that shit you they were tree trunks may at least do where he walked back over one of the quarterbacks navies cried candied, oh whatever to craig- and I was I too, am glad- I'm not

we did April cause you're running the triple option: football pep talk yeah. I made this set you back to the fact annapolis after that have made those dues. I mean, that's I and that's where you, you talk about like having these kids air compete at that level like you and why I mean it's a different: that's it just a different level of competition plan, those those folks but ig, and those guys that's all they do is play football they're not doing doubly and you're worried about height weight requirements and service selection. They're there to play football go pro yeah, though. That's interesting, how you talk about a guy will be on the o line of the d line. Then he has to go change. His whole body, I was like bro, that's true, you can be six four to ninety. Over three hundred pounds and then want to run. You know all these, my birthday, it's not like there, you are, Come a different human. You gonna become a different human beings like getting

your dna is what it boils down to the others. Even I mean I play a skill position, but even like running three miles you're talkin about eight. wales, marathons all it, but I couldn't do that. I could spread pretty fast, but men that long distances like a different kind of running yeah there. These do something called forth quarters in gettin ready so kind like they. They show up in the morning out on the field, and they would have. Steak circuit circuit kind of not well yeah it ain't. So I I go out. Of course I've got cleats. I've got everything like I've got everything the kids at like I, I love going to practice. You know what I mean, and so I'm going to go. Do fourth quarters with the team. So the first day I go out, I pick skills players to go with wrong move there. These guys they're fast twitch, muscle, man, they're, making me look silly, you in any way twice as much as you are aware at so the next day, a war without lie

I went to. One of my seal bodies was friends with a bunch of san diego chargers. Nowadays, wedding in do these guys are just not there like it different species like when you look at a chihuahua verses like a great day and you think how do these the same kind of animal standing around looking at these things called howard gets the same kind of animals at me cause I don't. I don't like this at all. Yes, yeah I remember there's like one of the. I think it's one of the chargers here, training with sarge and he was just teaching them some little bit of jujitsu stuff, and I looked at him. He was like I forget, might've been a fullback or something, and I remote we're looking at the man I forget, I forgot how big football players are being even thinking back. I know the numbers like I know, like my friend Jeff, he was he he actually ended up playing for the forty niners Jeff ulbrich. He was six one, two, fifty five, an arena for five, and I remember that are then thinking like old man he's pretty fast for, like being a big, you know, guy, but he's not. big compared to like ninety line of the line or whatever, but many

me think about their right now. Burma is to reconcile anymore you. it s a noble and run it off for five to fifty five. When that guy hits you that's that's enough. That's not cool, bro, you're, going down by you're, going back on your go down. That is pure power oil. These big among those to six five, three thirty, three, forty, I am still flashes it. Yet pulling guards that com there. Just like this big mass of a human man. Yet I forget how big there? That is why we invented gun power or, even worse, ass, anything else to end else did you bring to get it off they go see you on the pod, gassed and anything else for you,

Let's talk, how support this podcast passport? America, writing and, of course, when a sport ourselves? Speaking of being jacked good tool for being jack? creating prisoners. I just came out with greedy, good. How long were you thinking about doing that cause? I remember the idea came up long time. Oh yeah yeah, just the idea. It was one of those things where we had to build it. you would at a scale were made sense because, because we don't just want to be like. Oh we'll, just throw our name in the hat, with the regards make it good and all that stuff. But yeah it's been. It's been a it's probably been a few years that we were had that in the in the queue. it makes sense because it is one of those supplements. That's like reliably good across the board. You know it's crazy,

and that little video he made when you're like yeah in the nineties, and it's weird, that's what I really heard about it though yeah what's cool. Is that that's I I remember when it came out. It came out and I remember it never once I do creating crete, creating and where I got on crete- and I was on the point on the: u s: s cleveland this in cleave, and I brought I cruise boxes with this protein powder that had creatine in it, and this is the one that I talk about, whereas vanilla, I don't even like vanilla to this day, cause I drink, vanilla protein shakes for six straight months and I would hold My nose like it was bad to cuba and just like that Got it down you, Did you anymore? You get jacko fuel dot com, get your creating get jacked theirs. Cool thing. Is they don't so much research on it now like house? It does just that only help you get stronger, helped europe, like performance, help sure help here. cognitive function like it's. It's just straight good for you, sir.

Wanna get some about job of your backup. let me mention resistance training, all studies that they have been putting into that yeah all the benefits of resistance training. So now you've got the creatine supporting the resistance training supporting all the other functions of your body: resistance, training, jack. turning no offense JD, because I know you're a runner, you jack Stewart all night star calvin Dad do pull up cigar baltimore now pull upscale stunning wrote. The answer is no. That's his old school marine, no jacking of the field suitably act your shoulder now you know what else discipline go energy drink redefined healthy. All that stuff no beds. Can you imagine just having something? That's got no downside how legitimate that very little the logic here, no downside, there's no, there's no price to pay the cost three box whenever you like, rising ok for physically health, wise same thing, with a ready drink. More did you get a shipment yet

my gaze gives you did it you really not gonna, be God can be gone? There's no. We can have ready drink milk, the house with children. I had to make a rule straight up, rules you're not allowed to have these can of off limits their oh yeah, I open when they drink it all straight up. Well we're making as much as we can we're gonna wait. We got it on the web, were so yeah the ready, drink markets. Friggin awesome, it's a game, it's kind of a game. It is kind of a game changer. You know, I think it's a game. Changer cause man, there's no reason to eat anything else. Like You know, if you walk in by and no you didn't what I'm like, you're walking by the fridge and you like. Well, what can I have right now in your Qaeda everything's, an f third or its guy outside you know, with mock ready to drink, there's, no there's a once again, not outside you will have to make it. Julia rigid cap off road, you in your correct about that that cereal-

gets yourself, some re drink, more get yourself. Some creating go discipline, go jack off your back Why? Why you're virginia walla just get you cleaned shells their cleaned out like the time right, Walla we'll send more. So if you're these costs. While I get stuff the vitamin shop, military commissaries were the exchange, been exchanges soon, hanford dashed wars, wake foreign shop right circle, K, HIV. tat ass, you know we got you murphy's down in the southeast meyer in the mid west. So go. Google job if you'll get no downside, that's a thing, but many things in this world. Not the things in this world, no downside, origin, usa, dot com genes, boots, geese, hunt, gear, rash guards Shirts beneath the active were how long's is gonna go. This could go up

here's the thing all made in america right now. You know you seen some stuff on the news are now you're seen in China. There's a practical revolution happening right now: they're dead, workers rebelling slave labour rebelling about time. Will that china, that's where you're cool we're getting made if you're, not by margin. Usa decamp your ear. Enabling slave labour to happen so dont. Do it get them quality stuff, get the best quality. duff made in america support slave labour. That's what I got fired. origin, usa, darker still also jack, was dark. Logical please dicey, digital visa? I was talking to some. Did you talk to someone like bra? When you put a origins, it'll be on its its it. Totally it's a totally different for different needs, a different thing. It's like you were: it's like. You are driving in camry.

no offence against camel destroyed, apparently, but then you got put into like a cadillac. You knows- and I know Level is indifferent bank different experience, yeah, that's it hey, your brother used to have a prius yeah right yeah did you still have it no see he had that prius? I didn't know what to think of a prius right, been in what I got in his previous rather thing was I like the direction. This was written yeah. I know it gives good mileage. I what but I mean it felt it felt like it felt like economy class. It is a very economy class, I'm sure there's different levels of interior of the freest. I'm sure that's my assumption. I dunno I dunno how many pieces have ever been in besides tis, but you know you have the bump me feel it all that The whole deal you right here. I economy, glass, different results, don't get don't get an economy class key now get a first crafty

yeah you're, going to feel the difference for sure, especially when you gotta roll around in that thing to people trying to choke you with it you're going to make a difference. Hey if you travel first class and then you go back to economy, you hate it may not going to work for another origin. Key. Your first call there? You go back into an economy here, you're gonna hate, it's gonna be pretty when once again You also get to know your subconscious mind that, like a fourteen, rolled girl in slavery? Position was forced to make your d at gunpoint fourteen hours a day fourteen hours a day just keep that in mind: origin, usa, back off that also java store of yonder represent from the past. Did the discipline equals freedom, shirts and accident march? If you will goods is quality, does not like to the cheap free, a minute very wearable. We made it very wearable. Actual out of people say it's their favorite, feeding, shirt, shirt, locker,

sure lockers and different thing came toward a kind of custom sure yeah they are custom, but yes, a subscription get a new one. Every month, cool designs, let people seem to like down as well lol on chocolate, there's a couple of dominant or I'm pretty. I'm pretty on board with the plan for some of the t shirts in your shirt locker that are coming out it is rather less crowded. The part gas goaded jacqueline around our com. Look there's stuff going over the platforms right now. It's actually ex crazy to watch the what's going on social media, big tech companies freedom of speech. There's all kinds of may have on look. We I have a contingency plan. We meaning you listening ah sitting here. Contingency plan, jock honoured and our com. If everything falls apart, we'll be there at eight I was eighteen sense a month. If you can't afford it, that's ok! We you ve since it on the ground. A job on the ground are com, but listen. We don't know

can happen with these platforms and we can't just look you can't put your trust. You can't put complete trust into something you have no control over you. How to control your destiny. You have take ownership of your future. So look at everything. Look. We can stay on this path. To we're down we're fine, if they Let us keep talking and will keep talking, we're all good. We have no problem with that, but I can't just rely on that. We all can't just rely on the the benevolence of these people. That no vested interest in what we do. In fact, sometimes it could be conceived that they have interest in not supporting what we're doing. I'm just saying: that's where we have this doc on rumba backup, checked out on youtube. Subscribe, grab to juggle podcast, subscribed, origin, usa, psychological warfare, flip side, canvas, dot, com, got a bunch of books, You know what they are check him out, echelon front

If you want to come in one of these events with J d, and I got a slump dot com, we gotta leadership consultancy. This is one of the things that we do. There is these battle if your towards the battlefield. Next one is march, twenty first, the twenty third, it's up in gettysburg, it's it! It is going to impact the way you think, and it's going to impact your understanding of the world. If you come out to that, it impacts me, everytime so echelon front door come that's our leadership consultancy. We also have the academy all mine, all my journey, extreme ownership dot com. This is where we teach these lessons of life to everyone through the internet, which years ago this was an inconceivable thing. You would seem like I'll. How can you have you and something over the internet, but go charles. Have you noticed videos they make yet

where'd, you you! How do that mostly the internet, mostly lot of on the job training, is well well, you will the in a field where the knowledge come from any other internet. So there you go check that extreme ownership dot com. If you want to learn to live your life better, you want to learn to lead. You want to learn to maneuver. around the battlefield of humans, which is what we're don't go to carry ownership, dot com and if you want help service members rob active and retired their families, gold, star families check out more, please mom, mommy, I just got a charity organization. If you want to donate, you want to get involved america's mighty warriors dot, org and also don't forget about Michael thinks, organization, heroes and horses. Dot org. If you want could J d on the the web's, the arm, not o m and a v o m and a dot com on instagram, o m and a underscore underscore

or in a snuff facebook eliminate these called omnibus? yeah you made it into a word. Yes honour that one man, national assets, everybody is a national ass. This starts as I got tongue in cheek thing, I'll write like hey, that guy thinks he's a one man, national studies, the opt out by movement becomes on the battlefield in business and life. Everyone's job is critical to a team success there, everybody so there you go as far as echo, and I were also on twitter tourists hot right now, you're gonna, hate echo Charles lost all of his twitter followers. Does he got brutal stolen, Somebody steal from you. Did you did you get fishers I think they're, probably clicked, on something. Half the night, her car yeah. Why was I didn't? Really

on twitter. That much so maybe I clicked on one of these lists lists. You know like ten things you should avoid when you go to no pressure, so why don't you believe this list there? I always click on ok, so these are. These are click bait europe internet you're, surfing the interweb yeah and then it's like. Is it eagle side of twitter? This is what it'll do. Here's a heads up cause it'll, be something along the lines of this and it's it's totally my fault where there'll be like Oh go back to twitter like you'll: go on that website, it'll be all messy website or whenever an hour I am usually pretty good at navigating it, but then will be like oh navigate back to twitter singer lack where you clicked on ten things avoid in russia, yell ready aid comes up. There's night, in pop up ads. There's a bunch of weird shit. Go on that thing. You maybe even got a little flag warning that came up with this was a corrupt scenario monopoly as you just ignored. All that you read the ten things may reach do an under.

in one podcast about the ten things to avoid in russia. Since we didn't get the dunno yeah there there's a list of some sort. So then it says, do you want to return to navigate back to twitter and then you go and then like? If I'm not, staking it'll say like oh you're, like logged out or something like that. So you log back row, I very it was something along those lines. Brussels limousine it'll, be like confirm, or I don't know something like that, but you yea you messed up here. I walked aid into it and then make a countess just gone. They go and then they change your username. You pass through everything, so your email doesn't show up in the as the account some like, whatever it's just twitter and then like maybe a week or two later, people like messaging me like hey someone hacked your twitter sunlight whatever and then that day with me new, I went and looked for it. It was just got everything was gone so saying

it up under my original name. It was available. So what how many followers did you have? Do you know how many followers did you have like? I dunno seventy something thousand seventy thousand, and now how many do you have? Seventy if something like that, where you're bummed out you're sad because the rock in the rock follow you know, I dunno Joe rogan Joe rogan twitter and now he's gone brutal, brutal. We used to follow me now so that I think I was there? I think I might have been your first. Oh, that was your first one yeah. You are literally still go anyways. If you want to follow echo charles on the on the later on the ground on the face programme, on their to add echo charles and at java, willing watch out, watch out the algorithm number one number to watch out for the hackers? I know that stuff, J d anything else now go right all man well extra common doubt proceeded more important thanks. In the marine corps teach me,

how to fight teach them how to lead spin and honour working with you past few years, and I look forward to doing more in the future thanks all our military and might especially to our marines, beg for home alive around the world to protect and peace, serve our way of life and the same goes for all our police and law enforcement. Firefighters, paramedics, he empties, dispatchers correctional officers, border patrol secrets, All first responders were only able to live the way we do, because you live your life and sacrifice the way you do so. Thank you and everyone else out there remember what the marine corps says that, while physical health and strength and well being It is important and it certainly is.

It certainly is, but remember that the principal weapon is the mind. Sir red study