This is joggled park. S number three, sixty five with echo charles and me jokela good evening echo. also journalists night tonight good evening, Dave did evening all of you here this evening, our leaders, I am pleased meet you what you do may well, dignify the past explain today and secure for all of us tomorrow. That's a little excerpt from a speech that was given and Captured in transcript from general, of the army. By the way the army, omar bradley, who dave- and I well I mean the bradley fighting vehicle we are very fond of we fighting vehicle so omar baby, we did

In this document, but a little bit about him, born in a little farming town in cork, Missouri february, twelve eighteen. Ninety three wicked poor parents very poor, but he got into west point when in a west point graduated in nineteen. Fifteen number, forty four out of one hundred and sixty four is only one hundred and sixty four people going to go into west point in a class you know now like, but I think it's about. One thousand a class so he graduated with that class making drifting which, by the way, this is interesting this class. the eyes now was now class, but fifty six people, in that class became generals One glass of on sixty four people became generals. So They call that class. The class at the stars fell on world war, one.

He was a name for two regiment, but he never left america. So don't do anything. So that's rough asked us. That's hard happened, some guys in the teams. They missed vietnam and they were in the teams and there's nothing going on, and then they got our teams September, eleventh habits. Secondly, a bad deal, a bad deal so he's in world world war. One happens, he d never leaves america in tween the wars. He's I was going to you know. Various assignments spends a bunch of time as a student or a teacher at mill, Terry schools makes brigadier general they night. Forty one. nineteen. Forty, two to nineteen. Forty three commands the eighty second and twenty eight infantry divisions march nineteen, forty through nine march, ten forty three here

requested by eisenhower, to go to north africa, and this is when he becomes a deputy commander under patent which gets represented in the movie too after that. He selected as the army group commander for delay. for operation overlord d day and d day, he's on the ground lead the fight through the hedgerows of normandy and then to the battle of saint low august. First, he takes command of the twelfth army group and the war is now full general and by the way, check this out for general he's ensure large of over in charge of forty three divisions. One point three million, I think, as the largest army there has ever been assembled in america Nineteen, forty five comes back after the war he becomes the in a straight or further for the bureau of

in affairs gets them without. Job Nineteen forty eight backed the army. Ninety four nine first, chairman of the joint of staff, so that's kind of a a landmark role. First, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, nineteen fifty, of course, korea war starts in june in september, it is promoted to general of the army. Five star he's the fifth fur star general and the last five star general, that we've america. Army grows from nineteen fifty nineteen. Fifty two, the whole army rose from one point. Five point four million troops to three point: five million troops din. really have a great relationship with macarthur and our stay. Macarthur didn't have a great relationship with him. Kind of convinces truman to get rid of to fire gentle macarthur, and I try to figure out,

exactly what this man. I read several different sources about this, so he he stopped active service in nineteen. the three, but he stayed on active duty. I guess it's cause A five star general you're, like permanent, like here anywhere, so he's still active do even though he's not maybe in the eggs act, position bestow on active duty and then it then he just like chairs a bunch, If no chairs that the commission on veterans pensions member of the president's intelligence advisory board, his chairman of the board of below four watch. How DC below the watch company boil over below them? well over there he said yeah, I've heard believer, but the boat okay, I dunno how to say it. American company did you not know. I always thought it was a foreign company, an american company not made in america anymore.

I wrote a book called soldier story which I'm sure we'll cover on here. At some point he was a consultant in the movie patent for the movie patent because, of course, patent had died and what nineteen forty seven receiving quicker, like forty five as it might have like. The war was just barely over. So pattern wasn't alive and and he's a consultant on the movie patten and, of course, in the movie, it shows them s kind of like you know close friends, little different personalities, but in reality they didn't get along, apparently very well. He died April aids. Nineteen eighty one So that means he was on active duty from august first, nineteen eleven when it when he went to the window at west point until a brave man can anyone. He was on active duty for sixty nine years eight months in seven days.

obviously a ton of experience and like I said, I'm sure at some point or cover the whole book on the podcast, but I was reading this transcript the other day because he had is it did their Carl Albert where the army work colleges and he had stopped by to talk. to some students about leadership and He had some great insights there that I thought it before sitting down and covering. So, let's get into it. Oh marble maybe five star general stop invited talked talk, your class about leadership. What do you got so? that's off like a static. I use all already. All all of you here this evening. Are leaders I'm pleased to meet you what you do may well dignify the past explained it and secure for all of us tomorrow. That's how we that's very kind of kicks this thing off many says Perhaps I can touch upon a few feet actors that

underscore the value of good leadership, lead The ship is intangible, no weapon. No, impersonal piece of machinery ever designed can take its place now he did have a yet right. Yet not know he didn't do not away. I know a guy getting close man. have you seen the shack, gb t you aren't about what is it's like? is a lie that writing things were people I d she, the eia art They are threatened. I would do nothing but doesn't ay. I kind of defeat. All purpose of arthur the kind of and the other thing that I've noticed about a art people and of posted a yard of themselves. Is it Basically the post completely like fantasized version of yours. I could ever have oh, like hey it's. It's me jacko, except for I, just like a two hundred and seventy pounds shredded export five dude

with like that that's what it has risen, yeah, that's probably written into the air. I like that. they probably like plump your link to get europe like the picture. Posted sporadic, got it from read it! That's how it would you call one that takes over like info the site like Disseminate rang the third like creaking propagates itself, so he's, saying, there's no machine that can take its place, but I'll tell you what you can definitely make some incredible calculations using artificial intelligence The european little little sanity check on things, but according to a more broadly in nineteen, seventy one, which is when he made the speech there. Never and beheld, replace leadership. He goes on to say this is the age the computer. He was given enough not a programme, the machine. You can get quick and accurate answers, but how can you include leadership and morale which is affected by leadership?

into your programming you we can do some of that right and some of it you have to be able to re fully. Let us never forget the great import, This element leadership, And while we use computers for certain answers, let us not try to fight a whole war or even a single battle, without giving proper consideration to the element of leadership and when a concur with that. Another element to be considered is the man to be led and with whose morale we are concerned I am constantly reminded of this point by a cartoon which hangs over my desk at home, which depicts an infantry men with his rifle cross his knees as he sits behind the parapet. Above him is the list of the newest weapon. Science has devised

and the soldier behind the parapet is saying, but still they haven't found the substitute for me Now I'm going tell you they're getting closer, I mean you Dave burke, you're all but replace and been beaten that that the aviation, ai drum for a while, there's not this. This is like a new thing. Are you can think what we ve been talk? We talk about this report and I am of. I still think that the minority mindset that we're one airplane away from no longer having man fighters wait. There's the who thinks that were do people think were more than that. Yes, I think so. Oh really, I think I don't have any data to back this up there just conversations I think most people in aviation think we have. War man fighters to build. I think we have one more thing is not we're not surprise me if we ve got one more one more

Ass, the thirty five- yes, one more, you think you're gonna need another man's aircraft ass, the thirty five. No, I don't although I do not I'm telling you, I would not be surprised if the next one that there are designing now is the last man fighter. Ochre it would not. You went up prize me at all. I think a lot of people would say no way. The other day The interesting thing is: there's a dynamic where you there's no reason to even have a big aircraft like that right I mean you can just make smaller multiple, smaller aircraft, yeah there's a whole lot of things happening right now, like I forgot what the terms, but basically they ve been looking enough. Thirty five, certainly the next at erased. of a fighters is, I think, a colleague the swarm, which has no all these smaller drones were pilots that that this lead pilot women and an actual earner might have a bunch of control over, but the swarm is always unmanned. Aviation eurocentric vehicles working with that person.

progress that they made with drones in like a few years was insane. We had one. We had these drones in task in a I think they were called ravens and they are sort of like a big model airplane. You know little radio country. old airplane and let likes single prop and you had to throw into the air and then you it'd be a legit pilot to be able to fly them and you'd be flying them around in circles around the target and the pilots all sucked so they're like crashing them. What was going to one leaves a oh. I know one of life's aoa sees he begged me. I had something he goes hey. Can I use are? Are you a fee for this? Can I launch the? U avi and I was like alright, so we were on n a b coronado. I think, and he throws this thing to launch it? Any? No caning goes like eighty yards hinske plows into a building. Just add ons.

tony blair and then the second daddy's he's were out are. Are retraining and he launched it again national little tiny model airplanes, it's gotta, rapid camera like this is before you know. This is worse than a blackberry camera in two thousand and five right it's just junk. It's not like now, where you are not like. We are all sitting at this table. We all have like how many men, If the pixels around our iphone did blackberry have a camera yeah, it did end up cause. I I have like a folder that says black harry pictures, if only I had exist rapidly and they are low quality. So here you got this knucklehead. You got this cry be camera, you got this knucklehead seal like that's like now, pilot. By any stretch, he probably went to a three week score something any flying around a target and trust and the cameras not like we take for granted now use lock a common position. It's it's got

little geo, stabilizer and all that stuff doesn't have any, I think, but absolutely awful told it was literally worthless. So he's he tell me you don't at this thing. I will go with you if you will get a look at the target eyebrow, so we launch if you can't see anything, we're waiting to launch. I go. Hey man just bring it back here we gotta go, he brings it back the lead and crashes right over a home. These square into a tree broke up just totally destroyed. So I've made massive progress. I think I don't I mean I think your dear crews deafening out of a job in next fighter for sure, Whose thinking you still need to be in there, I think a lot of people. but what is it? What we view would argue their side? What would you think you're going to their side is like the all the new wants. It goes in with real time decision making and the flag body that goes along with that requires a human being to understands or the nature of the bee. These

we dimensional unpredictability thought of oars. You need a human being to be. Make decisions as opposed to a computer, I'm not an but on a high, but it is startling it in its not just what it can do. I think your point is a more important point is how how steep that curve is, and if you think about like it, I think about thirty years and how much happens in thirty years? That's why I'm looking at it like alright we're going to start designing this thing. Now, like all built, we'll buy it and we'll build it and we'll fly it and then like third you're forty years now, and to do it again, my forty years around, like hmm, if I think about how old I am going to be and how much is going to happen in that forty years or thirty forty years, I think it's really hard to not at least envision. It's it's going to be dramatic. How much different the world is, and just the concept or even what ai means. It's not like. It's going through something working like cook, for your or job piece of art. It's like doing level. I level thing that is well beyond anything. New

comprehended just visualizing, it be like saying to the Wright brothers. So, like hey what What you just sooner planets amazing. Forty years went to walk about it like that. Doesn't compute the data they can't make the can. I have like forty years later, it'll be like the fifties are going to start putting people in outer space. So I think, if you think about that, like what's going to happen in thirty forty years, I think that curb is so freaking steep that it's hard not to visualize. It's gonna be something way beyond what we can and the idea. Like me, Dave Burke, you meeting me to do that. Is it's a little arrogant, I guess base of you. Think of it, like a human being, I am, I loved it. Consider myself as martin I but give to give the computers thirty five years from now. I think I think a lot is going to change. There's a lot of things, change and right now, there's a lot of things: change right now, the near the battlefield in the ukraine right now the tanks are getting taken out at like a couple miles away with. No, you know by a ground by by a man

pack munition that's a game changer by that, like all of a sudden in one short period, time tank a little bit obsolete. If you look at it from that perspective, so things are changing our backs leadership here, of course, with this particular group of service personnel. I I, considering leadership as it applies to a military unit. However, having been associated with industry for some time now, I find it difficult to completely separate the principle of military and industrial leadership they have much in common. So he agrees with us. Leadership is leadership. In selecting a company in which to invest our savings. We often give primary consideration to the company with good leadership in a similar manner. A military unit is often judged by its leadership. Good leadership is essential to organised action where any group is involved, the one commands, be he amiss Terry officer or captain of industry must project power and energizing power which cause

ordinates coordinates and marshals the best efforts his followers biased applying that certain something for which they look to him, be guidance, support, encouragement example or even new ideas in imagination. So I mean this is some that this is what blind leadership is the most important thing on the battlefield right, but it so it's so interesting that this guy He's talking about these, these flakes ag this guy. That spent his whole life in leadership, can't really put his finger on what he's talking about you know. What I mean, he's like could be, could be guidance could be. Support could be. Encouragement could be example, could be new ideas, that's what a wide range of stuff the test of a leader lies in the reaction in response spots of his followers. Now, that's a good. That's a good statement. If people are doing what you need to do. You

you're doing something wrong. He should not have to impose authority. boss is in itself never made a leader so very go which is also again for those people, let her up there with the stereotype of the military leader. Here's this guy san. You should have to pull impose your authority We were a gettysburg and I started talking about authority and like authority with the thing if people call on four authority rank time. Inexperience now such technical knowledge, like all those things, people can call on that and use it as a forty like opportunist, I've been pod, ask him to three years. Man, you don't know what you're talk like that kind of thing. That system, as is the argument of authority, so goes beyond just break.

continue and he must make his influence felt by example, and the instilling of confidence in his followers. The greatness of a leader is measured by the achievements of the lead. This is ultimate test of his effectiveness, check, come on board of an end, listen up. I'll make this comment. Now we have to come back to it. Like that comments, I would say a timeless comment Achieving a leader is based on what your people accomplish. If you've listened to what I said five minutes ago and like oh, I'm just going to outsource my leadership to a computer down the road, that's not a good plan. The attributes that the the behaviors of good leadership regards of what computers might be able to do in the future. The most important thing you could ever possibly do is make you and the people around you better leaders, so don't get all wrapped up in this ai is going to solve your problems. I dunno, when it will, if it ever will, but between now and then learning how to be a good leader is really good.

use of your time. What's the most important thing by nothing, nothing that you can do as an individual human can ever compete with what you can do with a team. That's it too frequent. We used the words leader and commander synonymously. We should not forget. But there are far more staff officer assignments. Then there are command billets and good staff officer can and should do. Play the same leadership as a commander. While it takes staff officer to initiate an effective plan. It requires a leader to ensure that the plan is properly executed, That is why you and I have been taught that the work of collecting information studying it drawing a plan making a decision is ten percent of the job and seeing that the plan seeing the plan through is the other, ninety per cent, a well trained officer is one who could serve effectively either as a staff officer or as a commander. You know that

is that the conversation that you and I have we ve- had it at the muster a few times, because when, in a word about it in remoter ownership with so stone and writing on his writing on his home The window relax step. Here's what you do and he started shot at borough, one relax to look around three make a call, and then you had a conversation about about it. And you are it up with the eurogroup, and the last thing in the in the loop is act after you decide you act and they didn't line up because I didn't say, execute or act I put that thing on stones board honest The reason I didn't have to say that is because he's Potu like ready to do whatever the hell we said do right here: we're having a problem with execution. He was just having a problem with decide. You are always solving the part that he wasn't. Always you didn't need to add a component that was already happening with that yeah

what this is their getting people to actually do things. That's what he said is ninety percent of job sitting there are coming up with a plan. Is ok I mean it's, you there's some small challenges come up with a plan, but not really I mean have time to plan that you have time to assess different angles and look at things and come up and try different little courses of actions and run through some work, game some some possibilities and then you gotta plan, you're good, begin people actually execute that thing. That's what chant that's where Things fall apart by the way. That's where dreams die, I tell you right now, dream die in execution? They don't the dream comes out. Man, the dream flourishes in someone's mind right people go, people live out the entire fantasy. They, the entire dream people live out, like echo, comes out up with an idea for a movie right here

up the whole fantasy. The asker aboard the halting the limos like the red carpet, he's gotta thou vague. but guess what he fails on execution legacy. Oh, but now I gotta work, but now I gotta taken, I gotta. Do this thing so means die in that in that space. Between, decide and act. That's where dreams die between idea and execution, that's where dreams die, and that's why a leader a leaders job is to make that execution happen and here's the thing Another thing said system we got interviewed about the battle of romanian and south, told in our view that I had the lake beat. I d beat my head against the wall for every operate Now we are able to do which was an exaggeration, but the fact, the matter and I would tell that story to the young officers like if you think you can do a mission without like making That mission happen you're not going to be able to Europe.

It's almost is very rare that you're gonna be able to that at that. Opera. You come up with a plan in it and like okay, I said it emotion and now it's just gonna happen to you have to like fight every step of the way. That's the way it is in business. That's the way it is in life yeah. I I picturing trying to convince other people that that need to be on board with when you ve come up with a plan, no that they're gonna have to be on board without plan and when, when he says you're going to beat your head against the wall. I think, like you said your point is just the amount of sheer work that it takes. You don't just like hey, you guys are cool and it just happens. It's all other people and other things they have to do and we're leadership comes into that. Just to convey its people and I hate to say it. There are times at go out there. That just want to say no, they I want to say no to your plan. Oh you and you especially, if there's rank, involve you kid all those people. What did you get liege way around those things in their so much harder than sometimes people give credit for and how

often I'll see people run into a a barrier and then stop and give up then, until I literally wrote down dreams died execution. I mean it's kind of funny when you say it, but that's the hardest part, not the. I could sit at my desk. I would do this all the time remedy. Had these ideas, eighty we're gonna. Do this we're going to go here. Working to make up these things. Happen and then realities in there and the horse part about there. That is the people you have to get on board to making this stuff not your people getting ready to go execute, but all the things that In the way up to the point where you can go x, you that plan, you have heard the term idea. Guy and he's not gonna die, you know, which is a bummer its it What is this is. This is a huge dichotomy. Is that for me, like I gave a similar read a book, let em right way of the warrior kid. The ideas that is by far the heart part of that. It is so hard to come up with an idea like that's a viable and good.

Well, I cash. You know it hard work. It's almost like it's almost like life was like life like you, can't you can't create life like the hate scientists knows the various ingredients that are in a cell, but they can't make they can't maximum together, make it come to life by as tenacious D said you can't manufacture inspirational. So so it's it's. this dichotomy, because the hardest thing you could do like right, a hit song right. Oh my god, like. Everybody knows what cords it is like. There's for cords, five gourds at you, gonna be using whatever and yet jack. Why is writing hit song after hit song after hits on coming out he's here? bringing them out of thin air right and yet some one else spending their entire life. Trying in it make it happen. So It's weird that you can have, because I kind of wrote down an aura ideas, have no value

ideas by themselves have no value. They have no value and you have rifts in your head, or you got an idea for some new component or whatever if it's just an idea, man, it has no value, and that's proved out the fact that if you go and find investors for your idea, they're going to buy your idea for pennies on the dollar you're going to own like a little tiny piece of it if you're lucky. If you are, if now, if you are able to hang onto the idea and you're able to execute, you could end up being you know, peter deal or even must that came up with the idea of pay pal and held onto it for long enough that ok, here we go. So Have you got any right to say it's like it's like it's a our man, it's a war, the whole thing from the idea that you come up with that's great to the execution and but if you're, an idea, guy. And your stubborn Dont, be stamina. Amateur give you some advice, don't be stubborn, find some of this an execution guy and below

hey did. I got really get it you don't. Let me ask you this night and theirs all kinds of different people out there in some people an idea boards, are below execution people, and you got to work with these other people to get things to move. Very few people are going to come up with an idea execute them. Deal properly with the right logistics to make this thing work! That's why you build a team. So I was a radio man in the spring. salsa radio, which meant I was always on the field and a heavy little flashlight with me right, a little red, lens flashlight and I would tape it up so it'd be really really dim cause. A little bit of light goes a long way, and you just need to look at your your, radio in the dark and you at last night. But you know you have it a batteries. And they wear out, and you know what gets left illegal all kinds of problems in its big and I remain one day I was in a helicopter and I'm looking at. Pilot in the pilots, reading his map and he's got a lip light. You know if this is dave, Berg, I'm sure you do yeah right. It says that so

where they were there headset. You know whether radio comes out. There was a little how did you turn it on? I think like either like your tongue. Something like whatever the magna electro or I'm gonna wipe it like you your contact with it illuminated delight and what it will be down under close range or something, but all it was was an alley. Be a little dim ellie delight that you could see- and it's like we'd like every light. My house right now is now we delight, but I, but I didn't think oh, I should make wash like little tiny, tiny flashlights like that, because you had you looked at. Look when you were kidding had some kind of a toy that was up with an elite delight any random toy. They had little ellie delights those bright enough to be a flashlight. and I was a radioman and I didn't put two and two together and by the time when I rack the iraq war started, some one else came out with little lady farsighted. Now it's all germany's period, so there's

classic example. I b, I didn't that idea. Is worth probably hundreds and hundreds of nodes pie worth billions of dollars now of ellie, the flashlights it was farm use dancing around. I didn't see it so that that idea would have had a online. Add value to me if I could have executed, but I couldn't I didn't know it? I just didn't know it so. No that's why the idea has limit list value, but at the same time, if you dont executes on no value at all that the pen of the same as blue tooth member One bluetooth came out right. It was like just the earpiece psych, thus bluetooth. Now, like everything, is there? router is like no wired, is no wire anymore, necessary and bluetooth. Omens like booty, they own that stuff. So there get matching it paid on every set of head of blue tooth head bones now at every due to any bigger boots. So there's very good. I love technology actively art that go back the book here,

I can recall a former vice president, one of companies with which I am associated. He would formulate some good plans, but never followed up to see these plans got expected results I knew he had served in world war. Two. So out of curiosity, I looked into the nature of the service and found that his entire period of service was a staff officer. He had never had the advantage of a command job, so his training was ink. please maybe feed, remained in the service longer. We could have deployed d, eloped his leadership qualities as well, and this man would still be with company, you ve got a factor, so there you can connect you execute good at coming up with plants just couldn't get. Executed. You may have heard the story about general pershing world war, one while spending a certain area. He found a project It was not going too well, even though this lieutenant in charge and gave a pretty good plan. General pershing asked lieutenant how much pay he received and when Lieutenant replied a hundred forty one dollars and sixty seven per month, sir general pershing

I just remember that you get paid a dollar sixty seven for making your plan and issuing the order, and one hundred and forty dollars for seeing that gets carried out. I think I heard a story about patent two. I guess maybe patent or ip from purging I am not sure that I would go to that extreme. Certainly, in these days, problems are complex and good staff workplace a large part in resolving them. I have commanders, who were not too smart, but they were very knowledgeable about personnel and knew enough to select the very best for their staffs, remember Good leader is one who causes or inspires others staffer subordinate commanders too. the job is not interesting. Work causes or inspires like it's just happening Furthermore, no leader knows it: all of those sometimes may find one who seems to think he does that's common for that's when the document

even here to deal with people that thought they knew everything a leader should encourage the members of his staff to speak up. If they think the commander is wrong, he should give you should invite constructive, considered criticism is a grave error for the leader to surround himself with a yes staff. See he developed this idea and I executed in the book leadership charging tactics to me. No, no! Yes, man right he's! No in this! general george see marshal was an ex an excellent exponent of the principle of having subordinates speak up when he fell became chief of staff of the army. The secretary of that office consisted of three officers who presented orally to general marshal the staff papers. we're studies coming the divisions of the general staff, I wasn't were the secretariat

presented in abbreviated form the content of the staff to studies citing the highlights of the problem involved, various possibilities course various possible courses of action considered and the action recommended at the end of his first as chief of staff Marshall called us into his office and open the discussion. By saying, I am disappointed in all of you. When we inquired. If we might ask why he said you haven't, disagree with a single thing I have done all week, we told them so happen that we were in full agreement with every paper that had been presented, that we knew what he wanted and that we would add our comments to anything that we considered should be questioned. The very next We presented a paper as written and then expressed some faults which, in our opinion, made The recommended action questionable general marshall, said, now. That is what I want. Unless I hear all the arguing,

against an action. I am not sure whether I am right or not of was at tax echelon front and I said something along the lines of and I actually wrote down but something along the lines of. If you don't get any push back, it's it's a warning and that's a leader, and it could be for a bunch of different, it's a symptom for a bunch of different problems like the primary one, a maybe everyone's scared of to tell you. what they actually think of your stupid plan. Maybe you're hoarding information, so they can even assess whether a plan is accurate or not. Maybe you ve got them train to a point where all they want to do. Is agree with you if you train your leaders like even do such a exquisite job training, you leaders that you ve replicated yourself and you don't want to replicate yourself,

you want to have people to have different perspectives. That's the goal. Yeah wrote down. You're not gonna, go to that list of all the potential reasons. Why and others more, but I rode down. We all see it the same way. and how easy as a former chop, what that's a good thing? That's not a good thing. We I dont want be and the whole point of the risk behind that, as is, we can have relationship. You see the way I operate, we get a line we get fundamentally observing world the same way- and that seems like such a good thing, but it's not We want you to see it from a perspective performer. perspective that I dont see and like hey dude, you don't see what I'm saying over here. So when we talk about being a wine, we want alignment on what our outcomes wanna be and what the objective is I don't want everybody seeing the problem, the same way that I see the problem and you know even checking out what we want our outcomes to be. I've worked with clients before

where I'm like. Why do you want to do that? working with a client was like what would you we? We want to grow by x percentage. I was like wait. Why do you want to do that? What's the reason? Well, because cause we want to grow up, okay! so I was gonna take to grow and you start like, I do you want to do that. Some some business they get into a good spot and look we our programme now in the business world right programme too A growth growth. success, and there's a lot of reality to that right. There's a lot of reality to growth is success depending on the type of business, but like you, the small family, businesses and well, they got You husband and wife, they got a good business going and they have a kid and they want to grow the business. Well, what was kid: what did you do that you wanted to over the family business is due

want to keep this business at a sustainable right where they can kind You, on with their business and dont, have to look you get in you owe you go to you got afford every every winter for three weeks when you're, if you grow your business, always on that florida trip three weeks, You can't do that anymore. See this when you trying to do. So even like where's our outcome, unity, The question that- and this is a great example you we would ve gone through in a while with vietnam, with I can afghanistan. You know to what end. and I know Jamie just did on the woman's assemble. She taught she talked about to what end which the book by war adjusted and sheep. What I had talked about the council at the council, I can, opened up talking about to what end. and this is what war just was asking about. The vietnam war here we are were spent

billions of dollars were losing american lives where killing a bunch of vietnam people to what end. What are we trying to do here? And if you have that attitude in every decision that you make you know we're echo wakes up in the morning. goes down you know to the donor shop in- president, not linked to whatever you do this ask yourself that, honestly to what While I know it's gonna taste, good, ok, but like where you gonna be in a few years. Well, you know what actually I'm doing this right. Now I get it. I'm just gonna, This does not, but you know I'm going to do a hard workout later and I'm not going to eat anything else. Sweet for the next. You know coupled so, do you have a plan but People lose, it is when they're not action. thinking about where the china go. That's the problem, so ask yourself that question to what end

If your boss is telling you to do something or your boss, has says, come up with a plan or your presenting a bought, a plan, your boss, your boss, I agree with you, you might be you might not be aligned, we're trying to go or wait? A second are we trying to grow the business? Ok will what part of the business or return to growth is all the questions to be asked her so pay attention of those things. If you happen to be a detail, if you happen to be detailed to staff, try to be its staff officer and, if possible, avoid being a yes man. I would suggest to all commanders that they inform the members of their staff that anyone who does not do agree once in a while with what about to be done, is is of limited value and perhaps should be shifted to some other place where he might occasionally haven't idea. So, yes, Well, that never disagrees with you get rid of them helping you. Of course, I am thinking about the decision making process

after decision is made. Everyone must be behind it, a hundred percent. I thought the british were admirable in this respect during world war. Two, no matter how much discussion there had been on a subject as soon as a decision was made. You never heard any doubts expressed. You had to believe that everyone involved in making the decision had. Never curtained any ideas except those expressed in the decision You talk for a long long long time about this. the reason we could talk for a long long time, but this is because there's an one that comes into play when dave- and I are an echo- are discussing how we're going to execute something, and that's that thing that comes into play is Dave's ego, echoes ego and my ego.

and once those things are in play all of a sudden, it's very difficult for us to walk out of the room feeling like I support dave's plan, one hundred per cent, it's very very difficult because damn I'm just a little bit more practically said I have Ethan Davis and he's imposing this plan on me and he's not listen to what I'm saying and I'm going to be pissed and by the way I'm pissed echoes even more Just cause his plan was even more desperate than mine. Mine was from Dave's plans and his egos even bigger. So now we he's totally gift, what we're doing, but you ve barked the orders. We're gonna go down we're gonna to do it passed we're not gonna to be successful. We. put ego into this equation. This is what causes problems and that ego That ego, when it comes out will reveal

when I now have to do your plan and it doesn't quite go the way that you were thinking- and I kind of know that that's going to happen. there are eager almost can be happy to see that failure. My I'm gonna take some in. I might, if I may be keeping my legal, mostly in the control, but there's a Pardon me. If I don't really have that thing in czech little part of this, once this little, he got this little error. This little thing this little set back. I almost want it to happen and we want to get to the point of how actually supposed to work through that and solve that problem, and my there's really barking at hey, you knew this is coming. You knew talk was plain, was stupid You knew this could happen. It's almost like. I want that, you're to occur, I can see diego told you, man as opposed to this having that which I probably again. But how powerful the egoism- and I think you ve, said I'd I'd rather be right. Then we Oh yeah, there's been countless people an end, you no good. The ultimate

ample. That is, there's people that would rather die themselves and get there. and killed. Then so ordinary go to some one else or admit there were wrong about something like that and in their squares examples throughout history, disk, posting examples like that, now here's I'm gonna, give everyone It's a beautiful, beautiful piece of advice right now, Whom do you know? I don't say this very often. This is a beautiful piece of advice for everyone here my default mode when I walk into the planning room with dave and echo default mode go with dave's when or I'm no. That was me my default motors, to support someone else's. That's my default mode, my default, it is not to impose my plan on everybody else. Never and by it doesn't matter. If I'm, the boss walking, and to talk to you guys or if on the subordinate walking into talk it doesn't matter. my default mode is I'm going to go with something else to plan. I'm gonna go with what use, recommend

the only in look if you come up with the most was zoo plan ever created, bt, F, tony beat, you have tony who I love, whose frequent AK is easy. Technically sound as any human has ever been. He came up with in romania, he's like I want to take the free kid like you wanted. It with something that was like legitimately insane? He wanted it Take the little side like a little side by side with him just by himself and do like a patrol out just some random part to remedy and set up in a building or southern coasts, it could get away with it just going by himself like tony blair. You can't do that dude, you can't you can't just go by yourself, and you know what hey there's actually just a ninety percent chance that it would have worked is also ten percent chance. We never saw tony again, which I will split. The risk right Tony, I'm sorry, but like unless someone just comes up that but other than

one time tony, and I in the time that we together we were never in disagreement, about a plan more than nine point zero. One percent Oh eight from area up sanskrit- and you know what basically eventually, as I worked with way from south, it would in all became that now, what I had to be careful of is What you already gave warning off, like I didn't want to say, like life came up with a plan. That's great, I dont question. I would I pull myself back far enough to go. Okay, just make sure leafs. I may look at stoners plan I'll just make sure yep hey. Is there anything I can I poking holiness seen devils advocate, but you have to be a little bit of devils advocate. Sure that europe you're trying to poke holes in plans to see if there's any holes in there. Could you don't want to miss anything? and the only way to be able to that is viewed, detached, obviously but default

subordinate eureka and let's go days when sounds good man and and then tell you all that's how you solve that problem and by the way, the only part interview view that really think your plan is better assist. Riga cause cause here's what you're planning What you're planning is something that you can't know. You're planning something that's going to happen in the future, something that's going to happen on enemy territory or against a competitor or in a market. You don't understand, that's what you're doing so when you come up our plan it's about something that you can't guarantee anyways. So why Would you commit or overcome it to doesn't make any sense so be careful. I don't want it over emphasised leadership of senior officers. My interest extends to readers of all ranks. I would caution

you to always remember that an essential qualification of a good leader is the ability to recognize, select and train junior leaders. I would like to quote from a book entitled born at revelry and written by colonel read reader. I had this book you, by the way, colonel reader, is on a trip for general marsh. And one of the silence was to inquire into his junior leadership. This is an account of his conversation with colonel bryant. More on guadalcanal, colonel more, I said Tell me something about leadership. I'd hate to sensitive spot, he forged ahead leadership degree. This problem here is the leaders and you'll have to find some way to weed out the week once it's tough Do this when you're in combat or two leaders who cannot command, who cannot foresee things and who cannot act on spur of the moment in an

Urgency are a distinct detriment, as also interesting, as had a bunch of conversations with my last comment about. the psychology of military incompetence and the authoritarian mindset and how people do well that do well in garrison. Don't do well in combat and that's what he's talking about people can foresee things people who cannot act on the spur of the moment in an emergency. He goes on his ear. Its high, here, as you can see, men struggle vague he'd exhaustion. They come. Vomiting and throwing away equipment The leaders must be leaders and they must be alert to establish straggler lines and stop this thing. The men of been taught to takes alt tablets, but the leaders don't see to this. The result he exhaustion.

the good leader seem to get killed. The poor leaders get the men killed. The big problem is leaders. Ship and giving the shoulder straps on the right people. Sixty millimeter, japanese mortars. Fit shells fell about thirty yards away and attacked a number of coconut trees. I ll I lost interest in taking dictation and the colonel stop talking when the salvo was over and things were quite again bright. More said, where was I you saw that patrol I tell you this, not one man in fifty can lead a patrol. Miss jungle if you find one who the good patrol. If you can find out who the good patrol leaders are before you had a combat zone, you have found something I have had to get rid of about twenty five officers because they just for leaders I had to make battalion commander weed out poor junior leaders. This process continuous. Are junior leaders are finding out that they mean

no more about their men. The good leaders know their men, man, the em. It's weird that would wrap up that section with good leaders know their men after talking to other things, good leaders, another man He goes on now is getting out of a quote from that book. Raised are born, I readily what are the distinguishing characteristics of a leader. There are many essential characteristics that he must possess, but I will mention a few that come to mind as perhaps most important. First, he must no his job without necessarily being a specialist in every phase of it. A few ago was suggested that all engineering subjects be eliminated from required studies at west point. I objected, for example, bridge building, is especially for engineers. Yet I

every senior officer should have some idea of what is involved when we reached the rhine in world war. Two, it was not necessary that I know how to build a bridge, but it very helpful that I knew what was involved so that I could see at the bridge engineers received proper support in tonnage allowed and the an idea of the time involved. specialities dominate almost every problem. Faced today by the military leader or the business manager, the the this individual musket deeply enough into his problem that he can understand it intelligently, manage it without going so far What is to become a specialist himself in every phase of the problem. You don't have to The attack expert in order to effectively use a tank of your command. this makes me think of the basic school for the marine corps? Is that osity is out of your way. You're jobs in the EU can have some exposure to everything else. You knock it off expert in any of it, but

it sure does help a lot. If I'm going to work with you and your an engineer and have some framework for what you're doing No, the challenges are so help you or support or make sure your lease getting what you what you need and the idea of not being a specialists, but knowing what are your specialists are dealing with a mean that serve me well, and I think the very start for that for them, for me, was the marine corps, the basic school yeah they get that baseline set for everybody, in in look when you're at a business or you go into a business you take over a business or you move into a new department. You don't have to become an expert but to sit down or walk around walk the. Or going do that thing? You know: go. Get on the manufacturing line and do the various parts of the job so you look, you can be terrible at it, never done it before, but go do it it's crazy how easy that is and how much- and I am not exaggerating like in one day in one

day how much you can learn from to spending one day out there? You do not need nor do they expect you to be an expert on any the stuff not just the mild you get by just building the relationship, but the amount of time that it takes to get us experts. What's going, is actually really small. You dont need that much time to get out there and want to go. Oh, hey! Let me try that he can. I see that here. How does this work- and a few hours. What you can learn, especially when you're starting at zero, If you're starting at zero, you can learn, infinitely more in just a little bit of time. So if you see the some giant daunting task, it's really not it's not nearly as hard- and I remember this learning about the inside of a squad. all the different things worked. You spent an hour to somebody. Sit with them and have them show you their job, and then you do their job for a little bit in a couple hours. What you can learn from that yeah and compared people? I didn't do that you're freaking expert totally, so here's wonder his wonder, remember Thomas J. Watson of ibm once said

genius in an executive. Is the ability to deal successfully with matters. He does not understand so good in and my note when I read that is the genius. What will make us person Were successfully deal with matters that they don't understand is adding the humility to admit that they don't understand and saint. What's, let's get this figured out cause. I dont know what to do right now. This leads to another principle of leadership, which I have ass often found neglected, both in military and in business. While you need not be a specialist in all phases of your job, you should have a proportionate degree of interest in every aspect of it. and those concerned. You're subordinates should be aware of your interest ass. Well, you just talk about it.

You must get around and show interest in what your subordinates are doing. Even if you don't know much about the technique of their work and when you are making these videos visits, try to pass out praise when do as well as correction for criticism there you go to what you just talked about the light on the criticism part, you don't even know what the hell you doing. Let me show you worked out thing. There's isn't enough! Don't do that we tend speak up only when things go wrong, This is such a well recognised fact that a complete department is innocent no part of many business firms to my knowledge, no comparable faculty. exists anywhere to expedite the handling of praise for a job. Well done for your point, we all get enough criticism, and we learn to take it even Sir Winston Churchill, despite his matchless accomplishment, found occasion to say I have been

fitted enormously from criticism and at no point did I suffer from any perceptible lack thereof, whose always get criticized even churchill Let us remember that praise also has a role to play napoleon was probably the finest exponent of this principle of recognition through his use of a quarter inch of revenue, improve the morale and get results. It's the quote from napoleon where he said you can basically get someone to do anything by giving them a ribbon and he's right both mental and physical energy or essential to six as for leadership. How many good leaders have you known who were lazy or weak or who couldn't stand the strain sherman, was a good example of a leader without standing mental and physical energy eyesight him with some trepidation, because only you may be from georgia. However, during the advanced from china, chattanooga chattanooga to atlanta

He often went for days with only two or three hours. Sleep per night was costly. The saddle reckoning and often knew the dispositions Terrain so well that he could maneuver the enemy out of position without a serious fight and with minimum losses. Conversely, a sick commander is of limited value, is not fair to the troops under him to have a leader who is not functioning a hundred percent. I had received relieve several senior commander during world war, two because of illness. It is often point but napoleon didn't lose a major battle to waterloo where he was a sick man, so lazy weak. That's the problem. A leader should possess human understanding and consideration for others. Men are not robots and should not be treated as though they were machines. So this goes back to the idea of a

But I think you're, I think your praise that can be put morale and emotion, my emotional programming into leadership decision making, squint squint there from echo java maroc eventually. I mean it s. An argument for ai is like I worked it's like it's. A constantly learning learning, learning, learning rate for like input, input, learn, learn so beginning. It'll, probably be like freak in you watch demolition me. Remember I, I'm pretty sure I walked out of the movie demolition man of and never did I miss something. May I like it was dark woman click we can argue, as a last, it was the so it was dumb. Seemingly is really dumb right, seemingly, but oh isn't layer. I missed out on a metaphorical masterpiece that I snuck by me too. I wouldn't say masterpiece but

apart on their root, roof. Subtle part, subtlety, subtlety, Were simon, phoenix, rap music, governor cut it cry or prison whatever anyone it's one of these booth, as these boots rolling around like that, there's just a book for whatever you want kind of a thing like an atm for anything. So this booth can give you like it's like The internet is on there in all this, I can give you a mood adjustment. So, if you're, like I want to ego, boost straight and press the buttons whatever its has boy. You look great today, like that cancer. In real life, though in early work rate, programming and machine. I need you owe you look today, a machine! You me compliments after ass, it lay brother, doesn't work like that, but the ethics it does seem saying

So if you're trying to program emotional stuff like morale, boosting stuff in an ai at first, it's going to look like that yeah, but but here's my counter argument- and I don't really want to go full like lex friedman like disgust on ai, because I don't know enough about it, but you could probably put a program in there that we would say something like hey echo. Charles, have assessed your appearance and comparatively to the rest of the population. Today, You are in the top six percent of looking good. Congratulations. Echo go ever so now I decided to give you some data. May I remind you that I get it in a lot. That's not a terrible assessment, but I would think I think anyway, and trade searcher emotional soul. Now chuckled day, searcher emotional, like party where, like even if its, true, if it's coming from a machine who cares

the come from actual person who, quoting quote understands me at the very least, as a person seem saying so like a go boost from a machine, just the mere fact that it's not from an actual person brats its heart have you ever had any kind of like feelings towards an inanimate object? like a guitar like you will you let me very like real, expensive computers right, have you had a computer that you kind of had like some kind, a bond with no and here to answer your question: Dave did you have any kind of bond with europe will go? How will we certainly said that I like I, I I have feelings for the aeroplanes that I flew number look now, no damn right, but that I would be prize of, you didn't look at a heavy machine. Gonna go. I really like the way you look at it yeah, but the machine is another thing that giving you the compliment it's like it'll have to do. I think I could be wrong. Lex Friedman? U s notice

It's usually has to do a lot with or properly everything to do with. What you specifically did in with this man in that gave you certain personal feelings like personal, unique, very air like not replica, but you gotta, remember like right now. There's chat. Does people right now, there's botz on twitter today, very probably last today, but there's there's box and stuff out there that are having conversations are people than people can't tell. Yet I can tell yes true side once they knew it was a bot. If you tell them it's about, brother is going to change they're, not going to be one equally, as the only thing you gotta get over is like the little hump of you. just tell people like. Oh no, this think it actually assess white where europe and then people gaga. This computer, smarter than your wife. So your wife telling you look good is fine, but this thing town you a good, is factual, so there you believe it

you go up what you say ego boost your blue stagger boost, I'm trying to think like cause not another. You put it like that. I kind of like maybe but, like I still it's hard for example, when we have an example jpg he was wearing like of risk. Strap that told him if he was tired and he believed it he took it off because he was having bad days, because that thing told him. He was tired. He didn't feel tired, but that thinks that hey you're tired and he was like. Oh damn, I'm tired, yeah, and so we did that happening. times. He said you know what this bullshit. But though he believed the machine it affected his mood because it had the data so end of discussion. I think you can you stand up

brok, as I think that he's got prove so like if you like, and values, got egos download. It feels like a report card. Like a reply guard that maybe be because think about it, ok, steam needs and morale boost their losing right or whatever, what what with the machine do like assess the good things that are happening and report back? You can imagine, imagined at half time the the coach comes in and he's ok, I'm checking your your whoop straps right now. I'm checking your data. Everyone has more energy than they had at half time than we did at the last game that we want. You guys have the power to get and those true yeah yeah. So that's that machine can you affect your mood is what I'm saying yes, yeah, I guess like hidden information or something that you might be ignoring like that. Someone like that, I'm saying that.

A machine can affect someone's mood. hey you know what I have a machine effect. My mood, damn printer doesnt work right, Printed, doesn't work on amazon, unlike damn, I'm mad now get angry. I think that It's a thing so check, what we are saying is men, are not robots and should not be treated as if they were and he says this. I do not by any means suggest coddling, but men are highly intelligent, complicated beings all respond favourable. Favourably to human understanding and consideration by This means their leader will get maximum effort from each of them. He will so get loyalty, and in this connection it is well to remember that oil tito's down as I was up, the sincere leader will go to bat for his subordinates when such action is needed. Take care of your people and your people will take care of you,

a good leader must sometimes be stubborn. Here I am reminded of the west point: cadet prayer a leader must be able to choose the harder right instead. The easier wrong armed with care. courage of his convictions. He must often fight to defend them, then he has to come to a decision. After thorough analysis and when he is Sure is right: he must stick to it even to the point of stubbornness, grant furnishes a good illustration of this trade He never knew what he was supposed to be licked a less. burn, man might have lost its shiloh. maybe you ve heard the story of grant in richmond campaign when, after being up all night, making his reconnaissance and formulating in issuing orders, he down under a tree and fell asleep sometime later, a courier rode up and inform the general that disaster hit. Haiti is right flank and that-

his troops at the end of that line were in full retreat. General grant sat up, shook his head to clear the cobwebs and said they can't be so I went back to sleep and it wasn't so. He had confidence in himself in his subordinate leaders. So there you go, we just had you have you had a chance to listen to civil war, know that excursion were just about to grant just about a role in the seed from the east or start from the war the western or the western campaign grants, but the role in their crises of winning, so it's gonna, be it's gonna, be called a get into him as a leader, He goes on to say that I do not mean to infer that there is always just one solution to a problem. Usually is one best solution, but any Good plan boldly executed is better than indecision. There is usually more than one way to obtain results. This goes back to what I was saying earlier. That's why Good plan, although there has been an care, I dont care

it is time we waste, arguing about which ways better is time. of indecision and that's. What's gonna cost us so david decent plan with a minimally viable plant cop go execute. Do we We worked together right now. Dave your executing things like While the often executing plans, executing missions and I mean you usually sometimes give me like up after action report, sometimes about how it went everything. Is there something? outstanding that happened outstanding in any direction. Maybe something good, maybe something like oh this week. We could have done this better yeah, but I mean that's how you have to run things so much easier, yeah, I'm there's a lot of these comments that he's made like the course the you're reading, I'm trying

picture hearing this and. There are times you say something in, and people like. Oh, he just said: defend a defend your convictions. And it's like a little, if you don't understand in the context of that, there's a little bit of risk in there, because that can be like hey, listen sorry juggle, but this is how I want to get this thing done, and I want to defend that convict and I just can't help but think about like this. The example you now that you're talking about you and me and something we have to think about echelon for all. The time is a lot of times when people here these military examples or talk, about. The conflict were having with our enemies, but he does with a story like a lesser man when I lost that battle: hey, listen when you're fighting like an actual enemy, defend those convictions, but if can I run the same team. And we are actually working together. I am far less inclined, I'm almost not client at all to defend

My convictions and, of course, are going to be careful that you sit at well, that's a dichotomy. I don't wanna just roll over and say whatever you want, but if I can, the plane you come out of the planet. Go, oh, do that's it. The only reasonable when my plan will probably work. I am. not inclined to defend my convictions against you. Who is my. He was my friend who's who want to seem out good outcome when I want which is very different from an actual opponent at actual enemy. The military, those are very stark, obvious contrast- were fighting against the nazis, were to defend those convictions to the end or like another company that they don't want it coexist with you. Wanna. Take all your claim and when you into the ground, so just in being cautious with the idea of defending those convict, if someone of my team- and I have an idea The chances are especially if it's like most companies people are dumb must be we're pretty smart. They got an idea, they thought about it. If I can any reason to abandon I position ago, your position on what to do that unless ones like you said

once in a blue moon like dude your ideas terrible and we just gonna talk through its not that big a deal I revealed couple things move on, but not a nine times out of a hundred your ideas and my ideas there. I should Both gonna work have you got an idea? I am not wine. To be quite honest, I'm not inclined to defend my idea now because I want to I don't want to. You know my boss right because I to do that totally gonna work. Let's just go execute on that. and what they actually gives me is what you just described. The end is at hand wanna be care for this. But I spend a lot of time telling you what I plan on doing now. listen. We are strategically line. We have we as a whole company we meet and we get away strategically. I mean to say the people should be other operating but total autonomy, but in terms of this day, this event, this thing it's, I don't, spend a lot of time walking you through with with mock what my plans are, because seven years into this week.

A new point were they can go, execute an end you're comfortable at that my point is that is because arrows a lot of time trying to force my way into what What to do you've learned like a dave, is a flexible guy. He's he's he's going to get to the same outcome. His way my way doesn't really matter and that's cultivated a bunch of trust, so putting your convictions if you're not careful, can actually make you appear to be stubborn to a fall? And now you jack, o, my like is david adjust as he needs you with his client or taken, it is digging his plan, so be careful, but your conditions as well depending on the situation, especially what it is it you're trying to accomplish yeah. I think what could get confusing for someone he's just confusing the words conviction and idea right for me to have a conviction that we should take of our clients, I'm gonna defend. That

eviction. One dave rolls up to me: it's like hey Jocko. I think we could screw this client over and get some more money from them and do less work and it doesn't really matter about what the outcome is now were: I'm not gonna be like sounds like a good idea, because we're not aligned now but defence ideas which, like ideas, like I said earlier, ideas can be pretty much worthless right in and if we are going to assign value to an idea, we're assigning value too. my idea and assigning valued your idea. We can. assign a lot of value to either one of those things could neither one of them has any excuse me, I d yet so we're just Basically, assigning valued air is like it's like dodge coin. right, we're just kind of assigning or what is it F Tt, which is the fifty two years, what the f t x token, so who's the guy, sam bateman friedmann and bake Friedman, especially if this guy ripped off billy

of dollars from people and one of the ways it he did. What was they made their own little crypto currency and just assigned value to it said, oh yeah, this. This has this value within the borrowed money against this thing that they made up and everyone said this guy is smart and he's really nice. So we're going to give him we're going to let him keep doing it. That's what that's what so when we are so. I fireside my idea value and I sign your idea value can't sign it. That much value is just that we both made up. So why My gonna over invest in F Tt, its worthless it has no value. You also cancer, the future. I can't tell you: what are you arguing what're, you fighting me over the unknown of the outcome, so the fictions. You know winner and combat, and conviction of hay. we need to do to have the high ground morally with the enemy. Yes, I defend the high ground of the defend that conviction all day now,.

Even the idea of haiti we need to get the high ground. Tactically, are different, really strong, but you might lose a hate, joggled. Listen, we gotta eighty one! Thirty, that's gonna be overhead and we don't need the high ground. We could it'd be much smarter to have these troops over here on this. the terrain which, what sort of a blocking force worthy and he's. Ok, I'm. I cannot just an idea and look. I'm ask as bout committed to the tactic of taking the high ground was a human could possibly mean, but I'm not going to die a market I'm not gonna die on. Unless you know, Dave's hydro, those rule over and Looking at it. What would you do if the enemy gets up? There yeah well not word about ok what we need to worry about, so that a different so dont confuse defending your conviction with defending your idea, defending your plan, defending your faults, even open your mind that be conviction, verses ideas is awesome because the conviction we actually had to agree on we,

going to take care of our people? We are good, owing to help these clients be successful and of you. Discover that, unlike actually what I want to do is why would I lie? Doesn't it makes one? Yes, that's the conviction and then the ideas it so easier to not care so much about the ideas. If you know the world aligned that conviction, like oh dames, gonna told, different region he's, get that high ground, which is his way of doing it, but he actually seas will that clients get taken care of organ of an impact, and my point is that as we don't talk about that- I am glad he is nearly as much as we used to because, like out, I know he's going. I know it david doing an end. Yet we pretty good thing going in, and you don't just cut people loose but if you can be a lie, the convictions, it's so much easier to be flexible. The ideas very like worst case scenario. You didn't actually you like it, you're not going against the can the that we share. There is actually nothing you can grow up bad enough to, like you, have a problem,

there is nothing that we can't clean up on a phone call. We were like hey dude, I meant, as I said, I was over the next little bit. We spent a little too much money on this client, and I owe him another two gigs and and by the way they really want you so you're coming through and I'm like, alright cool roger. You know jamie booking me for we gigs across Amerika had conquered. Thank you, Joe don't call Jamie she's not doing anymore. I'm going back to the book another quality leadership that comes to mind is self confidence. You must have confidence in yourself, your unit, near subordinate commanders and in your plan. This recalls a couple denseness just for the invasion of normandy. Nineteen. Forty four story went around that some of the units were making the assault on the beaches that they would say for one hundred percent casualties that none of them would come back found it necessary to visit these units and talk to all ranks. I told them that, of course, we would suffer casualty but certainly our losses would not be a hundred per cent, and now with our air and naval support, we would succeed

after our landing a correspondent, told me that, on his way across the channel in war, the late leading ls tease, he had noticed the sergeant reading a novel struck by the seeming. lack of concern, by their sergeant. He asked Aren't you worried? How can you be your time like this, the staff sort, replied. No, I'm not worried general bradley said everything go all right, so why should I worry yeah confidence right, there in the middle right, they're, nice and balanced competence, not overconfident, not arrogant, but not self downing best sure I might relate another incident where there is allowed lack of confidence with theirs, Of course, I, to relieve a senior commander, because I learned his men had lost confidence in him. This meant of course, that we could not expect the maximum performance. By that division asked being relieved, the off Sir came through mop, came back through my headquarters and showed me a file of statements given to him by his

request. I am sure by the bergen master of all the towns, his divisions that pass through. If he had confidence in himself, he would not have felt the need for those letters pretty good one, Sir, he should finally look at everyone loves me. I've got a bunch of letters to prove it. after seeing the letters, I told the officer that if I had ever had any doubts, as to whether to relieve him. Those doubts were now removed. His letters prove beyond question that he had lost confidence in himself. So no wonder his men had lost confidence in him, too a leader must possess imagination, whether it be in it, Administrative decision, or one made in combat the possible results of that decision, must be plain to the one making it. What will be the next step and the one after that, he only wrote one little two paragraph sentence about imagination, which had a little bit more

Next, while there are many other qualities which contribute to effective leadership, I will mention just one more, but it is a very important one character This word has many meanings. I am applying it in the broad sense to character. I may apply in a broad sense to describe a person who has high ideals, who stands by them and who can be trusted absolutely a person will be respected by all those with whom he is associated and such a person will readily be recognized by his associates for what he is. Circumstances mould our character these circle- stances affect different people in different ways from exactly the

same set of circumstances. One man may theoretically build a palace, while another may have difficulty building a lean too. It has been said that a man's character is the reality of himself. I dont think a man, strength of character ever changes, member a long time ago, when some and told me that a mountain might be reported to have moved. I could We were disbelieve it as I wished, but if anyone told me that a man had changed his character, I should not believe it. So this is a very this whole thing. About your first was a little strange, there's a little kid. contradiction in there that he made, which is circumstances, mould our character, so he saying that you're you're circumstance that your character does change. Based on.

Circumstances, circumstance moulds your character, and then he saying that characterise not gonna change it's more likely. A mountain gets move than your character changes, so he's is got a little, hypocritical statement here, but I think I understand what he's getting out right. I think he's just talking about the fact that your character is molded. Over time, but once that character, established. It can't be changed now. I can tell you this I've seen those character change right use. It takes a pretty significant event, You changed someone's character. Maybe they get fired. This unless we get fired and they there's no new character, change whatsoever. There d still pissed at everybody else, but someone gets fired. Someone gets killed, like something. Some very big event can change someone's character.

So a series of smaller events. I mean you look at someone that kid the we went to high school with and then they joined the marine corps, and you see him seven years later and you're like damn, that's a that's a different dude, that's a changing character, so I think the character can change factor. I know it can yeah. I'm I'm I'm going through what you're doing china latch on what he sang and understand what is coming from, and I I, the present presented with you like I have seen enough things happen in my life around people with those are character. Changing events like like you described, I'm just thinking of the other side of the to china it's. What he's saying is we ve talked about this? when someone reveals that her character to you believe them that compose like hey of jacko. If I catch and go oh dang, jocose maneuvering for himself for Jacko deep down is actually trying to do this for him,

I have to understand like that who he is and there's a balance inside there too, but I'm just like. I said I'm trying to latch on what he's talking about, and we've talked about this idea of somebody's character. If they reveal something about themselves, you you have you. You cannot pretend like that the case or just do some conversation in a change that character. So I do believe that that will end up with. I know that people's care Can change- and I don't think, there's some age by which it it's? immovable. I took the order. You get the horror. That is, but don't we I have about somewhat character either that the trick the thing about that is you know Many of us myself included aware optimist were optimistic. People yeah, and so I see Dave like shortcut or something- and I was like. Oh, he still thinks he's part of my team like we're on the same team. Here he's not he's not going to do that. we should again you like. Ah, you know he pop

it just. Doesn't you make a bunch of excuses for somebody and what you're saying is important you need to when you see those things you need to put it in the calculus ma'am put that into the calculus cause it's. That is a that is what you're dealing with right. That is what you're dealing with as a person What is their character? The thing about the other huge takeaway from this, which is extremely important, is that you can take two people with different character. Put them in the exact same circumstances, one person's going to build a palace, the other person's going to have difficulty, putting up a lean to and what that means, is you as an individual you. You need to take ownership of what's happening to make things happen. I guess This is this. Is extreme ownership right one person can look at a situation and ok. Well, hey, there's a bunch of rock here

I guess I'm gonna build a palace. Another person looks at it goes out. There's a bunch iraq here. How am I going to build a lean to? There's no sticks back. He can't figure it out so gay. I think in surrounding yourself and training people. This, I believe, is a trained. attributes well, look just like every other attribute, sir. People have a more positive outlook right. You guys got caught the guy. You come we've got the guy in your platoon arose, never good work or is it. I think life bab and likes to quote the alien guys you know seventy days, we're not gonna make it seventeen minutes. Man like that kind of aid, That guy there's one of those guys in every platoon, totally right there and every platoon and every company, every team there's no way we're going to beat the competition with this thing that all this is no like they're having if fire throwing a, I didn't say it, but it's the negative we we have

name, for them is naysayers right, there's an actual word for that person. The english language is so filled with people like that that we have a word for that. Let's call the naysayers if the existing type of person, but I think, over time. You can train people where they are look at this problem. Comfort You're gonna find a solution I want to take advantage of. This situation were to do where do evil. We're going do even better positive things can happen, so take that into your neck scenario, the next circumstances your put in and ask yourself I'm build a password to build a lean to which one we can do. But build a palace throwing the to struggle to build a lean to that's. The question are then he goes on to say, we all leaders possess these qualities which I've been discussing and the great leaders are

those who possess one or more of them to an outstanding degree, some leaders just miss being great because they are weak in one or more, these areas. There is still another ingredient in this formula for great leader that I have left out and that his luck he must have up trinity. Then, of course, when arbitrary knox he must be build arising, opened the door. Some may ask: why do you talk about, qualities of leadership. They Maintain that you either have leadership or you don't that leader. Born, not made I suppose some are born with a certain amount of leadership. Frequently, see young children inclined to take charge and direct their play me. The other youngsters follow these directions without protest, but I'm cool Nevertheless, that leadership can't be developed improved by training, No doubt about that, as he again something else I store like. I had read this before a real leadership charging tax, but

our leaders born or made the answer. Yes, they are born and they are made and he says there is no better way to develop leadership than to give the youngster or other. schedule, a job involving responsibility and let them work it out again. This is my favorite leadership strategy and tactics was my favorite tool for leadership leadership when the majority put them in charge, put them in charge. That's what you do. Try to avoid telling them how to do it. Both decentralized comment that for example, is the basis of our whole system of combat orders, which there's a whole. We ve talked: about this on multiple different pod gas, but mission type orders not telling people what to do to tell them what needs to be done. why it needs to be done and let them go figure out. We tell suborning unit commander that We want him to do what we want. to do leave him to the details. I think this

the system is largely responsible for the many fine leaders in our services. Today we are constantly training and developing younger officers and teaching them how to respect and accept responsibility, and that's it I was saying, as I said, this monster like Every moment of every day is an opportunity for training your people but anything that you do. If you it's Awesome you'll need to go on some big tree I mean trip with your team. Now you work in the you workin sales group cool you're you're doing a presentation to some client potential, quite cool junior guy, go hey you're, going to present these guys, hey you're, not oh you're, not ready to present you're at least going to put together a plan you're going to brief me in that way. I can get to know the numbers and in all briefings, you're, not there. Yet we own a construction company, ok, cool echo come up with a plan on where we knew the Kok report. During a brief me, it I'm going to poke some holes in it. But you know that's pretty much. What we're going with it look if it's bad

If it's horrible, if it's going to be a disaster, then we're going to stop in and I'll make the adjustments but you're going to come up with a plan, that's what you do you have the opportunity train people all day. Every day with the nato, your family, you gotta, make dinner, you gotta go to the grocery store. You got to get it yard clean up every one of those things is an opportunity for you train your team, your dear dear children, now to come up with a plan how to actually to plan how to old teamwork, how to do things efficiently. Like these, opportunities. So everything you're doing all day long. You have the opportunity trained people He goes on to say, however, dont discount Sperience. Someone may remind you that napoleon led armies before he was thirty and that alexander the great died at the age of thirty, three,

The point is, he grew older, even commanded, even larger armies, Alexander, might have been even greater. Hetty lived longer and had more experience in this respect. I especially like general bucklers theory that job meant comes from experience and experience, It comes from bad judgment. And then he goes on to say. I have been asked to speak on leadership in the past. I have fairly well covered these same thought with other groups some, however, somehow, however, at the moment, these thoughts take on added significance. For me, you see my first great grandson was born a year ago. We can't fat henry. What happens to his life and the lives of his contemporaries may well be in your hands. Thank you. That is the end

this is the end of this particular species. You know I've got a book manual department of the army pamphlet six hundred tax. Sixty five This got, it's got a bunch budgets issue is a book of military courts and there's a bunch of their from a more broadly. The greatest leader in the world could never win a campaign unless he understood the men he had to lead. good to know the american soldier is one proud is a proud one, and he demands professional competence in his leaders in battle. He wants to know that the job is going to be done right with no unnecessary casualties. The norm. commissioned officer wearing the chevron is supposed to be the best soldier in the platoon and he's supposed to know how to perform all the duties expected of the american soldier the period the american mary. export soldier exe his sergeant to be able to teach him out to do his job and expects even more from his officers

Ernest diligence, sound preparation, professional. Skill and loyalty are the marks of american military leadership. There. You go another one in war. There is no second prize for runner up good one remember another one leadership in a damn Craddock army means firmness, not harshness, understanding, not weakness. generosity, not selfishness, pride, not egotism. Swedish rolled out some dichotomy, three kids, giving you the balanced one and is given the tendency that most people have military organisations, success and success Some battle depend upon discipline and a high sense of honor. They just roll out. These quotes

The nation that aid needs men who think in terms of service to their country and not in terms of their country's debt to them. That was nineteen. Forty eight, I think, maybe J kay jack, that's right, the jfk jack. That sounds like a little bit. Remember, good beer is one who causes run spires, others staff for support to do the job. We already have that one. So there you go this guy For me, some good information, some good things to think about- and you know its leadership and its leadership as applied to life. So more leadership, more life, lessons to be learnt, trying to get better echo charles, is trying to get better. If what he got didn't

we talk much about working out, don't much! No, no! You did say he did say physically fit. Oh yeah back. He yelled that one said you gotta back it up. You did you can't be weak. He said week. Leaders we care. turn, but he s got spa. As he grew, he didn't say, do squats or curls. hey guys or girls do squats, but there's inferred kind of implied thing that we all kind of her right near yells. If you're not doing squads it sound like he'd kind, dig you that much. in the whole nature of the whole deal again, but those of us who are doing slots, which is pretty much all of us we got some Some self limitation for you, you not to this path, lot of pain in this pattern of pain they discuss. did. It is perhaps no suffering. We always pay, no suffer, no suffering, no none! Others pay but there's no suffering for suffering is like your meat

the meaning of pain or like what the meaning you put on the pain that you get. I think that's like the suffering like doms pain, not suffering, tear your bicep pain and suffering yeah cause you can't do curls for long seems. I understand what I'm saying. I guess man I'm not sure one hundred percent of tracking you, but I don't really want to know no. No. This is important because you can actually help them there's some of your suffering. If you understand ok This is what I levels collective, charles covenant, hot, so pay in suffering are two different things. Suffering is just like what you are. Basically the conclusion you make given the pain that you have. So if it's like, if you think your pain is, Bad is for the negative is destroying its whatever than that that create elicits suffering but if you say hey, this is part of the process that I need or that I have embraced or whatever it's still pain, but is not suffering from saying.

okay, so you can assign meaning to whatever you want, including pain, and you can assign whatever meaning you want to be anything it's sort of like building a palace instead of a lean to so I could be feeling pain. It'd be like this is part of the be building the palace or I could be feeling the pain gonna do. This is horrible. I'm going to be able to sleep here tonight cause I gotta leave to exactly right currency, so you do understand stroop, either way when you do feel this pain eliminated suffering got some supper. mutational help you from leslie physically them all. That's it. Yet it's a big one, because if you don't get your protein, which is hard to do by the way we established that the long term it is hard to do just just eat food and get the american, we're gonna, need strew there. But not anymore, none, but now that we have milk from saint amity skill, marketing guys are like thing is what the mark name. We got it explain what it is, look additional put in the form of a dessert.

That's some hamburger hotter do now surveyor. What is mark Couldn't just call a protein think as a taste to good use, there's another Have the stigma of like a broad g g, something yeah. I said hey, do you want this broccoli, but the broccoli taste is, but the broccoli tasted, like super good, like really good, yeah tea, tasted like really good, like Keith, what I call it broccoli now I've got something else you if I don't hate, you are all the goodness of broccoli, but it tastes really delicious what I call it broccoli I understand not mean you, so if I make a thing, that's got protein in it a bunch, a really good protein- and really good for you, but it doesn't tastes like a typical trash. Then why would we call brodie? We call had to have its own word. Okay, so deeper, Let me tell you, let me ask you what you think about this, so I drink milk, chocolate most of the time, seems in

but so sometimes, on a make coffee, I make a mocha nine people its little bit. Chocolate, milk in the in the coffee right as a motor retrieval, they got ever chocolate opponent whatever, but if I put the chocolate mark in the coffee, at a marker. Do so now in this. My question is work. If there was a Do you drink coffee or somebody? Opera does not discuss enough for you then my people, then confidence if there was a more flavoured coffee, chocolate called mocha with caffeine. Would that be viable? you're gonna get a lotta. Yes is on that cause I'm getting hit up for that. I think so too. There right, ok, cause there's, there's things like that that are out there, but they're, not good for you there's down! had a lot of downside, lotta sugar lot of crap in it so There's things like that exist, but they're not clean right. That's what I'm saying

what, if this rayner right more our tea ready to drink chocolate, flavoured what added some coffee flavoured or just some coffee in their susie? company in their demands for four hundred percent, but I think I can get down with that. I know you could That sounds like a really cool idea I see this as a good thing, but I do If the team we we are a very you know what I'll give you for your idea. One dollar, when there are good it's a fancy right now. It's just a fancy can see no were worth nothing but I do know, people who have you ever had so many present an idea to you that they made you like sign an n d a and they presented, but then the middle. But then they present the idea and you're like brothers or this is the most obvious thing that, like is why I can't believe you're stupid. Ending this. Yes, I know, I know you guys were laughing both of you laughing at me or whatever, but when I brought this up, but I

that stuff, that he said about the ideas in the you know: the cancer pill and all nuts from a from a series of real stories that actually yeah yeah yeah, oh yeah, an actual cancer pill or pill was my rebuttal to the person saying how good their idea? How valuable is it was a india date by the way, not to mention odd. Let's meet up at this coffee shop is like going to really present wrathful and oh yeah. It's so annoying. I have to ask my He makes up so he's there really in that game would have what here when we meet when I made websites pray you especially back in what oh eight yeah, but everyone and their mom had ideas for a website from apple website where it does this, and that and this and that and DA cause. I don't want you to steal. My ideas seem sane yeah, but this monk idea is very executable. Yup know that that's probably that's gonna happen, I'll say that Well, there of your back home, get market get given one go

energy, less unearthing like it's called an energy drink, but there's no downside. So it's not really in the same category actually kind of having a new category of healthy energy drinks based on drink that we may they're, like some other than retailers that we work with their making a new. Category area. Oh, you can get this junk poison. That'll, give you a thirty minute of thirty eight minute, freakin math. infamies rush and then your crash and burn. You have type two diabetes or eagerness. take once I'll over, and here we are things clean and makes you feel good. I wonder if they'd put it one while over, they put it it. Next to it is, like I mean I shouldn't say, I have one shelf over: oh yeah, like one little mix and this one says poisoned, it's got a skull and crossbones like a radioactive thing, and then this one says healthy. It's got like like a strong muscle.

It lacks a life force logo recently linked with life force, lobotomy, Maybe me to make one at the beginning of my idea. Is a good idea: life force life force, lower your mother, it was true, though yeah you're over there create logos on a bunch of ideas too, and you're all the same I'll get the website. I think that's another part of that process. Oh I already bought the domain. Do you agree with me, or else I own? I own, you are else you know like you know, life force, dot com, I just ran programme by that in the next three minutes, tired or somewhere, divided. so the url domain name is like one, sent better idea, he'll ten percent, because I always novels- deserve close to causes europe, but the url is like literally like I mean you know you are a further four nine hundred and ninety nine sincere on on go down. please: go daddy, don't wanna. Does not no no lenny plenty spots domain com go daddy frequently

One called to me: it yeah there's a lot of talk. It's called a ready to go daddy, the big, the big one. Yes, one of the main ones. It's all my all my stuff and go daddy. Do you ever because you got access to my go. Do you have a look on there and go like well wonder what this idiot was thinking here with rigging me? you w w dot painting rocks in the world down cobb lipping, cause that sounds funny to you. But to me I see all those I say. Okay, I see what I see when you look at my name, you're going to be like bro. What the hell is this guy thinking, but you you haven't, you haven't lived gimme, your worst obey name that you are here. I can't, I don't know it off hand, but A lot of them have expired, but right, that's that's! Back in the day when I to stay up drinking the quote: unquote: creative stuff. Just ninety nine and, like I said earlier, you have the whole dream in your head on the way out the whole. Oh and here's. The thing it was, it was bad with me, for my

well, if I didn't go to other people saying like hey, you do there, you know I just said yeah, you do. The rest sounds like you woke up in the morning how to do the walk of shame back to your call. Go daddy bill was you're right. The funny thing you're one hundred percent right when you'd like politics, do less. Im. So dumb, like looking at these, like what was I thinking or what, but the the what made it bad for me is when I drink I'd, be like wait, I could do. I could literally Will this off this little idea that I have but cannot make website and automate video. Not each go through the line of assets that you bring to the whole project, and then you do it and you're, like presidents, can do your all, but cash checks like all but check it into the academy awards for your movies. You rl sue alright. So there is a: u r, l that is proved out to be pretty valuable and it's called jocko fuels dot com, which is one that you know what I discovered grabbed right. The whole idea came to fruition you on it.

Hear something really, you might already noticed, but trade go on. Godaddy are Avar and go look for your ls containing jacko, something like something real, like an old jacko microphones. Jungle bottle I dunno something we'll find that a lot of them are taking yeah yeah. That's that's those people broke. Thank you to get jocko dot com that was freaking awesome from that. He totally hooked me up. Greg hi bring me about that, sold it to me for one dollar jocker dot com, it's legit so proceed. Alright, alright, so geography, dot, com, origin, usa. dot com url had to pay for that one database and real money for that. One for lord of usa, dot com that it's a bummer, but we got it and now you can, american made geese boots genes, teeth shirts, hoodies, rash guards. I got another bert needs by the way. What what will delta sixty eight

which ones different wash the middle middlemen awash near losses as it appears in there. I ordered usa bunch cool stuff, Jacques restored, our come true. Three can get your apparel presented the path to swim, nicholas freedom stand. at issue dave bert, representing the marine corps colors the dig it actually think of ever revealed that we just let the color scheme or four put. Nonetheless, it's true. It's absolutely true de burgh records. beyond represent unabashed. This legal through good stand by Gets all this stuff doc lasorda when we have the shirt lock on there too. It's a subscription scenario where you get a new shirt cool designs. I know a lot of people liked that one so check those out if you'd like to subscribe for that one. It's a good one, subscribe to Jocko underground two. We had a little extra podcast where answering questions we're doing we're covering topics that are there that are

a J sent to what we talk about on this part. Casting the contemplated birthing contemplate of their adjacent. A very life focused so far, the category of how can it be a better human I'd say, that's right, and then we answer, but questions from everybody, so so jacko underground dot. You know what I found about your topics. Is they, if you can like grasp these topics and keep in mind in free, keep in mine, you avoid so many the pip pitfalls in life, and you know what I've noticed about your topics myself. Here we go again. I think we're on the word think we're on the something like that sixty five sixty five. Seventy some like this that we ve done. I think four topics have been yours.

I have the weekly less that you saw. We have potential topic on I'm on the grid, so I might have one of our topics might be topics that echo has suggested. We could just get a kick out of cover that recover echoes. You are also good that we another good one through the list we could cover my dumb. You are else too. We could get wr ls out here. That's a good idea actually so check. That's the the underground. If you want to subscribe to that Do that other part, gas youtube's graduate cycle go warfare, flip side, camera, stockholm, bunch of books. You know where to get em. get him, a jocko publishing, dot com, you, amazon, dot com, to mean only only granted living by how it ok, we reprinted some of those grab grab that books are fantastic book, echelon front where we have, leadership. Consultancy David, I echo- is not on the leadership concern

Well, you! I love you, you see, em out official talk irrational fish, but you don't interact with clients, No, we and you know what surprisingly we haven't had. We had a request for echo to come minorca problem. I know factually that that I guess you got in this. I found this up. happen one time by the way, partly out of about one million inquiries but whatever. So I guess What, when you sign up to ask for or to offer us an instructor, he eyed and it's like a hierarchy re your first first choice. I get I suppose like that I guess I was the second choice on loan. From a little did you do it? No abra, it was no. Jamie told me like laughing like cats do not pay out literally bankrupt your whole computer. My advice you set dave, and I and a bunch of other people, waif J, p, Jamie jason stay

eve magna bunch, people premise corey anyway? we have a list of company s front. Our camp is what we do. We teach leadership all problems that you have inside your organization or leadership problems, and we fix them. If you want to improve yourself on an if a jewel basis, you go to extreme ownership, dot com or teach these principles, principles of these principles of life, the trim, ownership, dot com. If you want to help service members afterwards, I want gold, star families check out, mark lee's, ma mama lee. She got a charity organization. If you want to donate, you want to get involved, go to america's mighty warriors dot, org and also check out what michael think is doing up in up in montana heroes and horses. Dot work doing stuff for bets, and if you want to connect with us Dave is that David Arberg echo is adequate charles, I am at jacket when we're on the social media things. Reading

age with twitter? You know toward his le wild right now some wildness goin on this kind of fun so where there we're on the gram, but just watch out for the algorithm on all of these things. You gotta be careful thanks for listening and thanks to all of our military personnel out, stand watch round the world. Keeping a safe same goes for police law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics, empties, dispatchers, correctional offshoot, border patrols, secret service, all first, responded. You all also out their standing, a watch here at home, keeping a safe, thank you whenever one out there. Let's just remember that Peace that are more broadly said about about.

Circumstances in character and circumstances, moulder character, but different people with different character react differently to different circumstances. From the exact same circumstances, one man my build a palace. while another man's gonna have difficulty building a lean to a palace. Vs lean to this is factual. This is factual. Some men, women,

and go through life. They build a palace and some men and women go through life. They build a lean to we've all seen it. We control our own destiny, so let's get out there and get after it and until next time this is dave and eco and jocko out.