« Jocko Podcast

381: Fighting The Odds and Trauma, With Kelsi Sheren.

2023-04-12 | 🔗

Founder and CEO of Brass & Unity, host of The Brass & Unity Podcast. Brass & Unity was started in 2016 as a way to help fellow soldiers.

After serving in Afghanistan as an Artillery Gunner at 19 years old and losing friends during battle, Kelsi came home with PTSD. After 7 years of anger and pain she decided to use her struggle for good, and try to help others through their struggle.

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This is job I number three, eighty one with control and me jack a willing giving me a good evening also Joining us tonight is kelsey sharing who was in the canadian army she serve in Afghanistan and she, actually on this podcast before number two, eighty eight and you may it is that pakistan between eight is not actually available, because after it was released. I was contacted by some other soldiers that she serve with and they asked I would add the pod cast, not include, some of the names of people involved in this if a operation that we talked about on the podcast, because they do want some of the details about events that it occurred to be revealed to families of the wounded and famine
fallen. There were also some day agreements as to what had happened in combat and specifically to what kelsey had done and had not done. And so my immediate reaction, which is to take them, podcast very you, because the families fallen are the priority and so we took it down. We try to edit that out. We also try to edit out some of the contradicting stories of what occurred in combat and sweet. We try take some of those out. and once it was all edited and caught up in the end after weed, two points, the material the podcast just didn't- make sense anymore. So we just we kept it down I end and then because we are kind of gonna put. It and then we didn't put it up. I am
fault for not ever putting explanation as to why we hold it down and why didn't reposted and left kelsey about spot because of my actions. So Ultimately in this way, important to me the soldiers that serve with kelsey eat and These are sorted that reached out to me and even the ones who had a very different perspective. To what had happened during this particular operation even though soldiers told me, that kelsey had proof very well in her role and they were appreciative of what she had done and appreciative of what she'd been through and most important to me. They said that kelsey had been good soldier in combat and because of that and because I know that kelsey has helped people deal their own trauma. I
we take this opportunity to get kelsey back on here again and gus our experiences at a high level. and how she has gotten through and manage with her post, traumatic stress that she's been through so with that kelsey thanks for coming back thanks for having me back I'd like to catch people after their don't I honestly, didn't think about. What's gonna happen happen I mean wanted I've. I thought that I never explained anybody. Why pulled the though? podcast down, and I just want to make sure people understood. Why did and that it wasn't through any fault of yours and that you know pulled it down. We try to edit it. It was a bunch of it. Just the end, not me, really making sense and structure. The best thing to do would believe it down. And I know- and I also know that I dragged a kind of dragged my feet on that and I kept saying well let
tryin edited again, and it is just an interest ever came out good, I think, to be completely transparent with you. It's one thing to take it down. I think I'll just should have been told. Before I went three weeks and the only reason the only reason I'm I'm bringing it up. Is it actually just the saddest? for me, wasn't the fall out of like the the loss of speaking gags the first book deal, it wasn't the blacklist from people on the community. It the red it pages. It wasn't the one guy that road you that email who walked back after I threatened defamation lawsuit wasn't any of that. It was the I got an opportunity after your show, that was a game changer and for upon castor to get the opportunity to go sit with someone like lex Friedman was a big big fuckin deal and
I had done something during the pull out that I actually wrote about in this afterwards, because a lot of things have happened, and since so let me just finish this thought and then I'll go through. I think the thing that fucked me up the most wasn't that any of that stuff had happened. It was that. I wouldn't tell this person who I just who just met me, who spent five hours recording with me and then took me out for dinner for my birthday, shudder, restaurant down and built a friendship with all the turner Look at me and say you lied to me. You used me and because of that I am not going to talk to you till he puts it back up that broke my heart, Because I build relationships in the space- and this was the first time my character had ever been ever been questioned by fuckin anyone and so on.
Looked up to and still do. I, like, I looked up to you like when I meet You sorry echo your great deal too man. But when I met you, it was a big deal because I look. to you from a military standpoint, you're a pod, castor and I'm a pug cancer and there's levels to that game. I get back, but I looked up to you the man, the guy, the navy seal ripe and for me I knew you were you, you explain to me what you are doing and why you were doing it, but then I had thirteen pages of proof and written statements from five different people, including my platoon sergeant, my radio coms, my medic. Who confirmed everything and disproved everything in the email, everything every last point. Then I had five videos and then it will
fuckin dark and I had no one. I could get a hold of that pissed me off because I was like this guy has a boot on my fucking neck. And I've expressed what's goin on I've express about this fucked me up and then through that and then when the lex followed happened. That broke me because I was built, the friendship of someone who was willing to take time to help me kindly move through this space and away where it was like learn from mistakes. It was like somebody, I could trust and I could start to talk to and be like hey man, I'm doing this episode, like I'm workin on this one, how's this added or like this, a key was willing to become a friend, not just like a guy's person. I went on a show and whatever right so that for me, fucked me up so the followed actually from lacks was like what hurt. It was more disappointment that I wasn't contact at first cause. I
no, how you two role, and I know how this show roles and that's not how you guys do things so that fuck me up. when all of a sudden I started getting in an online and I got hit and I got drug through the mud. Like I got stuck didn't. I got fucked hard because of one guy and after I threatened with a lawsuit. He shut it down. Fuckin apologize walked back so then what it actually did give me the opportunity to do, because I don't believe, there's losses and I don't believe that anybody, those through shit. So there's not a learning and on the under this day, taught me a lot of patience. Lot, a patient, had to learn a lot to learn how I was going to learn to respond to things, some appreciative for thought. It gave me the up You need to go back and call every mother fucker that stood side by side with me and get written statements are put it in this book. It got more photos, I got more videos, I got everything and then the family members
he said that didn't approve that I got written letters from them, so harpo and mix aaron and every dude I say I've got written. that I can say their names everywhere. I go I'm not showing up as this person who who may be kind said she do what she said. It's like. I will beat somebody with this book. There's so much proven it, and evidence is disgusting, so I've been gained the opportunity to show up for myself in a different way, and it really did taught me a lot of patience, patience so much fucking patients, it, but I won't lie to you when I say when at it follow happened. I allowed. I said this on cleared heart couple weeks ago, I allowed the trolls to eat me alive. Leg. I mean spin me out of control like they go sit in the jungle in peru and work on some serious shit, because I could not move through it and what got to me was all these do goods that are free
of mine who are also mutual friends with you and I'd be like I know you're seeing him this week, and can you say something just asking where it is and they No one wants to piss you off and I was like. Ah I see so Well, I waited it out and then finally, this year, I and when I say move pass it I must pass. I went away in July had to. I was walking ticking time bomb in all that time that this happened right after you and I sat down. My husband almost died and we have figure out and get it did not like a diagnosis of a tv. I go down to texas use defenders of free go do all this gb I treatment. So he was like literally dying and falling apart. I was losing my business because I lost so much fucking respect in the community abbots for police cancel on me. Major universities cancelled on me, and it was all until Jacko puts a back up. Even less had to put a statement on his opposite with me.
I am aware that georgia has taken the episode down and is too not the names of the families and so even on my like last stuff, so I the real. As I can't read comments, I can't fucking and anyone unless as five people around me and if if they say I'm doing the right thing and I'm focusing on the right path: a person I can be proud to wake every morning, beaten, that's fine. Everyone else is just fuckin noise and I thought I had learned tat, and so, as fucked up as this whole situation. What is- and I know it finally, why it happened, didn't like it, I know, exists why it happened. This is what happens when individual, those who were mentally unwell, who don't deal with their trauma, don't deal with their hurt, don't deal with their war pain. This is what happens when people stay here and don't get help, and then the people that do that go up here who have gotten help
that shows that since their ego talking there pissy because they're not in the situation, I men look where I'm saying this is round to I'm fuckin lucky. I know that, but it didn't come from working it didn't come from not trying it didn't, come from not putting the fuckin effort and even on the days I didn't want to put the afridun. So if you Have a problem with me sitting in this chair alright anonymous letters. Fuckin say it to my face because you won't know one well, No one will even try, because I can back of everything I said and I have no wish you with it. So it tommy and I'm ok with that now I am. It wasn't for hot minute, like twenty four seven rage forage, Fuckin Brady would like this to have a smile. My face and he'd be like what is your problem today? I believe nothing he's your vibrating anger like
Everything in me, because I had no fucking recourse. I had nothing. I could do. And then we'd. This christmas Brady was like regarding you and your watch, and I was like whatever he's like we're taking old apple things back, I was like okay, so I found my old pewter. Just happened. Have three more videos I didn't know I had and they were like crazy. Videos but was like a pan shot with me with every guy said I wasn't major calhoun, then my platoon sergeant- and you could hear me too- king and then there is another one with one of the guy I and there was like artillery going over top, and so I had no course. So I detect your wife she's like please don't tell me and I was like. I don't want to do this, I don't have another recourse others showing up at Jim, like a psychopath, which was like. This close, so
I'm not happy about it, but I am also surprised that you so what you said I I can appreciate that. That's taking accountability, so thank you. Yeah, I mean I I am gonna air on you know, like for me was even assumes I got an email that, like the and with the fallen us to pull down like that, was it that's all. I need to hear an That's a knee jerk off on a knee jerk like that, every single time and then the everything else I just had to just tryin muddle through and we tried to get it to. Where was like of lean. Her part gasped and it just ended up being not very presentable. Not fine with that, but tell me that yeah tell me that not a year and a half later tell me that tell me that so I dont spinelli controlled. Tell me, hey, guess what we tried. We did. Try it let's just to lean its novel, our shows not done enough conway record up. and the only reason I think it was on the radar is causing. I had
message: your wife, those videos. I I'm sorry, I don't wanna be doing this. I don't wanna be texting Irena, be the last person. I've ever gets my wife's, it's like from having a phone number. I can see it cause. She doesn't like this kind of thing and I don't like it either. I didn't, but you gotta understand I didn't like it either, though I wasn't happy either. But I done that try to go through. The friends but everyone's afraid of view. I tried the no one wants to piss you off and get on the wrong radar. Literally I had seven separate people. We know say that to me. So it was like okay, I got no choice. I said hey he's got these videos. I dont bother you but jack's not responding. So what do I do so she was like here. I will get him to respond thirty seconds. She must adjust call them and they like block, indeed with this, so I dont care work whenever got a dungeon Dying but I can tell you, I'm persistent and I won't it's my name, so why wouldn't I be? This isn't something small. This is who I am on this planet
right. So your back you're here I am less talk through your life, which is how the book is laid out. Starts in the beginning Canadian girl talk to me oh yeah, I mean fortunately, and unfortunately now it is it's not as proud to say it as we used to be, but yeah, I'm from a small town from a really small town called campbell ferd, and it's a farm town born and raised like forty five minutes from there and my parents have truck drive, there's just like normal, everyday, hardworking people and on I grew up there and I started fighting one was about four, so tight window, martial arts, where my life up until but nineteen, I took a brief gap there. When I was a teenager and I got back into it, I was in the military. But my mom decided it was gonna, be it was gonna be thing where you know my kids are never going to just have nothing to do so. They're constantly going to be in a sport, and then you know they're gonna be an athlete
some type. So for me and end up being soccer tech window in the very quickly moved into just take window and not became take window every other day. to every day the two a day to coaching to training to national level? And I just I ran through it, there's something about being able to fraud, the situation yourself and something about for me. It was the smallest version? I was always the smallest version of like the weight class or like whenever we were fighting and so was like in. There is always that underdog type tone to my life. There was now a oh yeah she's, that's a given! That's a given! You know I mean so for me. I really like the fact that I could have. To show up. I liked to be challenged and I like to show up when I say in a show up and not in anything. So so through that stage of techno quite well. I did very good lose a lot when I was younger, which was really nice and then when you did lose, that was a hard learned, lessons which was never fine,
remember. The last time I lost I was kicked in the face. I woke up on the ground. was like four. What are the rules when you're a kid doing, tae kwon do how does it work? So for me, you do oh geez, it's gonna be a little different than it is now. Things have changed a bit, but for me I could fight girls and boys until like eleven twelve and for me we couldn't you weren't allowed to get at least in my club. We weren't allowed to get a black belt to a minimum of like eleven or twelve so, and that was you know you had to start way. It's kinda, like you just gotta, go, go a hot minute with work all the way through the belt. So I you know there wasn't a lot of now it's different because they use an electronic sensor system for the olympics and stuff like that. So when you're fighting, you have sensors on your on your feet like a sock and then your whole gurus have sensors and then the head shots are just three points, so the hookers would, if your foot hit perfectly it doesnt score. So when I was fighting that kind of came in a little, once when I was fighting if you
aggressive enough and you kicked hard enough. Even if someone blocked it and key up really loud with it. It was like you know, because there was raps and like each corner you would you would get a point. The guy didn't quite see it. This guy would market. Headshots are obvious, you can only. I kind of see those but, as I got older and got through that that started to come into the system and then ultimately leave my last couple of years. That was how the system worked and I didn't like. Can you get in trouble in tae? Kwon do for kicking someone too hard like in I thought that was part of it. I thought it was like you do know the second. You never did, as I thought you couldn't. but you weren't supposed to like forlorn knocks on one. Are you weren't supposed to keep people in their head? Had shots were super important? There three points I mean you don't kick on the back of the head. The back of the head is like the hard. No, like you don't try to do. I don't think you're supposed to trying to. someone's head off anyway, but it happens where somebody
it'd, be to do it like a spin kick in, another person could be coming in and it just claps right at the right time just hits the job. We have definitely seen people get knocked out in taekwondo matches, but it always seemed like it was a bad thing like they were like. Oh, this guy got knocked out and like it, you have happened mania. Maybe I'm ridden around. No, no, I mean I never did type onto their might hear there. There might be maybe it truths somewhere, but having where I grew up. It was very much like headshot or two points. what is a body shot? I think it's just one. I mean I have a final long time to bear me here at last time. I thought I was nineteen, so show you So you accumulate points. How like? How long do you for how long is around so they go by rounds, and then I know when you hit blackout or a certain level or certain wake like a certain level. You move you d like three rounds, so be it for me when you're younger was like two rounds like forty five seconds We need rounds like a minute, sometimes a minute and a half
and then there's one rough in the middle and then to be score keepers on the corners than ever coaching, her coach here and then when you hit like a certain level, then it's three rounds. Forty five per second in between and it's like, two minute or one and a half minute kind of rounds, and but for me it was like. I always aim for the head, so most points. If you can get someone you don't want to break their face. I mean had had here. This is more of like an axe. Kick when you're coming down something along those lines where you slapped the face and that's how noses get broke a lot. I was never discouraged. It was never like china to kill someone like don't I try to go out and like rip their head off but like because you need to be able to pull your leg back so that you can get back at it, but I knew people who they would they would man, they round how somebody, but then they would do this thing where they kind of like take their happen, drag their foot with esa than the head kind of goes with that which I never liked. I think that was really an asshole move, but-
Because it was too much yet we all regard your points, take its presence, not back. The whole point is like quicks, not move right, bout, quick, sat move, and so, when one that is to say may seem so it me so you're doing taekwondo at your peak, how many hours a day of taekwondo are you training that was national levels? How it was fair to me- and I was like twelve thirteen- I was doing a minimum of an hour in the morning, so my mama me in the morning, when me and like one or two other girls, that would train with my my coach and then my mom would stay, and then you take me to school and then the eye
at the time, depending on the day, I would go at lunch just to do like a thirty minute, because my school's walking distance to my club so was perfect and then after school I would do a training session, but then I also did like I would coach like so I would train, I would do teach some classes, it's kind of like payments. Once I hit black belt, that's when I could start teaching and just helping out and like supporting the club. So I would train my class, but then afterwards I would stay and like help coach and teach and then I would go home and then it got to a point where it. My parents lived forty five minutes from the club, so what I would do is I'd I'd bus in or my mom would drop me off in and then I would stay for a couple of days a week with my coaches at their house and I would just live with them cause. They were husband and wife. So at that and it was in that- was easy and then they would take me to school, and then I would help with their daughter. It was just kind of kind of worked out well, so I was probably at my peak and then I was in the military, the last repression, then I thought a little bit of accuracy and then I did a little after
and after that, I'd wait, wait, classes, man, you're just hung about this with rebecca rouse she's here and now we're timber like wait, classes like having to go up or go down like that as a female once you get past. Puberty is wrong on the system and like is doable and everybody can cut weight. But its look at certain points like ineffectual hormones is unhealthy and it's like I didn't. Do that anymore? I do want to be in the sauna fuckin, soon. I won't get may last for you, man when I was tiny. I was like those tiny events I was like seventy six pounds. and that is the here. And when you move up, I think I would have been. I thought fly weight which I should have been, but I fought fly because I would like on the bus
well, and it was the us open in las vegas. So I wasn't sure if I was going to make weight, I was like teetering and I was really struggling to cut like I couldn't. I couldn't seem to get that one extra pound without it really hurting like the hydration or seventy six pounds like one poem, has a lot of weight when I find the yeah well, that was one of the younger, but when I fought in vegas it was, it was flyweight. So I think it was like one o eight and then the next one was one o three and so I was I was. teetering at like one three one o four and I was like- I couldn't- I couldn't seem to get there. I'm pound, and if you didn't make wait, you just don't fight, let's just say so. I was like They want to risk, it solves moved to fly, wait. What a living hell mistake because everyone is my wait whose like up to one await but like five, seven, five eleven. So my first round was with a girl from chinese taipei and she just fuckin just came out and just kept me and at a distance with her head shots spock
pop one after the other pop, like I'm getting nowhere here, so I finally do get inside, but I'm I was never really trained with that system. So when I kick, I can kick hard and I can pivot really fast, but I don't necessarily my foot doesn't sit perfectly where the sensors on the top of the foot with the whole goose. So it's not scoring, so I'm just getting frustrated. She just keeps kicking me had lost. My first round was like a it was like I the centre for it, and that was what age nineteen and are you win? in high school. You doing good in school, like from a grades perspective, not a terrible. I yeah no for me for school, like I got, sue. I just stop take window right as I went in high school and I was like the worst time for that to happen rags. That was my entire identity, that my coach went to prison, and after that it didn't trust anyone. So I wouldn't train with anyone. So then I was just angry and you're cold. went to prison for I'm. He lasting someone. Yes, what lay so she was my training partner.
and she was like a year to older than me, and it went on for two years. It was called a relationship, slash statutory rape, so he went to prison for statutory rape of a minor and then you, we have a coach coach, don't trust that how it and, as you went to high school, yeah, yeah rate at that pivotal, like transition point there, so then you go to high school on your you're, not very great, at school. Listen! I I wasn't because when I was in school like the deal was like, I could do my homework. I could train my dad was a truck driver so with him for a couple of weeks. At a time I do a book report. Teachers were pretty good. I I wasn't like failing student I was like. If I applied myself, I would have it in a student, but like I didn't like what I was learning, I never enjoyed it so same problem, everyone all tat. When I went to high school, I was in a catholic school. An in elementary? But then I went to it like a catholic catholic school, whereas like religions,
class need to wear a kilt girls had to wear the celts. I don't like kilts, I'm not a kilt person, sorry dean so, just weird, and so I had to go into that school, and I I was angry us. Were angry. I didn't Has anyone didn't trust man? That's for damn sure, and I just by air, I was to let me down ever was Let me down, I was gonna fuck me not just like how life is like the person I try the most like he's our training for him in his wife is waivers of world champion. She was a bad dude. She was such a good fighter, and he was a huge huge, but The sky was prominent. Our great masters and are masses were coming from toronto. So, like I trusted this guy and then not just ruined at all. So then I stop da, I started playing rugby. I mean that's where a lot of the rage, that's a lot of the rage would come out which was perfect for me because I was small enough that I could be a fly half or scram, and I could do you know I could I could run so. I really got into that in high school and then started
Sing on that, for a women's rugby I know is the same as men same is a girl's rugby, the same as boys, rugby men's rugby, the same as women's rights. These girls by I think I think so. I know that women's rugby, yes there's the same rules like, for instance, in women's across its different rules. Ok, it's a much different sport. Ok in girls, lacrosse you think it's a much different support women's b is the same as as men, rugby back its full on I don't know if girls rugby is the same as boys rugby, which boys rugby is the same thing. It's full of challenges. Yes, oh oh, oh yeah, like you mean like that, I thought you might like it was played a little differently like cause they're sevens, another fifteen spelling. No, no! I meant like I'd like to. Like hockey languages. We can't we can't. We can't hit hearty, but men can it not. Young women are vicious for sure.
Watch the women play rugby very impressive, yellow grab you by the pony telling just play back from that. No just palm your face and either no issues with that and everyone just and you never one to the bottom of the screen with women as they will in like intentionally take the metal cleats to your face like they. They love it. I know women who put their milk as art and by like it's its gets caddy fast by. I played a part, ninth grade nine, sir, you after I got at high school there so paper while play for a couple of the teams, and what did you when you're is the same, I schooling, canada, like you, have freshmen sophomore, junior senior and then you graduate at around eighteen I mean I started so great and we went mine was one to NY, one to eight for elementary and then nine to twelve, and I graduated at seventeen and that's high school Let us have highschool yellow. That is the same as america when you were, let's say, fifteen, what we
thinking you gonna do with your life. That's the thing I didn't have a plan because my whole plan, I was on the fighting path like that was, My career. I wanted to be an athlete I didn't. I was told I could do it. So. Ok, I'm gonna, do it like that's what I to do. I put my my life, my passion, my everything into. I wanted to be a time without fire, taekwondo fighter, I want you to panama, I wanna go the olympics. I want to represent canada, the guy always wanted to do that. That was never in my mind that, like there was not a I think I tried a summer off. It lasted three days four days and I was doing sit ups in the living room. My mom's, like a case for go back. I couldn't do it, I can stop and I loved it. So that was the path was athlete now when I went into to school, and things like that, like yeah, didn't give me as many phys ed class so I can get that startled. That works for me, so I didn't have, path it and of a planet and and even now, when I think back like what what have I done? If I didn't join the military, I don't know I
hell. No, I don't know if it would have a good idea. I mean I've, never taipei personality, maybe what a landed as a cop leg. I honestly I can't picture anything. Once sir, you were kind of wandering in highschool super wandering, yeah yeah. I had to wear a kilt didn't like anyone or the turks. As a catholic, like school had to go to have a kind of music. Did you like? Oh, I wish I brought photos, that's good I was in two super email scream out. While access on fire, like that kind of stuff, I used to go to like concerts and listen to like, as I lay dying and like mosh pits, whole things I was leg. It was a dark very little volga human who just who needed an outlet really desperately. I I I always kind of asked that question and I think it used to mean more than it does now, because when I was a kid which is, I'm I'm, I think I'm actually a lot older than you. I mean you're, not that fifty one, it's just the number so
but when I was younger, you really couldn't there wasn't like now. These people can listen to a wide genre musics of music, because it's kind of all on the internet rank and watch anything for free. You can get into debt So when I was a kid you would basically only gonna be until one, namely that you kind of music. So if you know somebody who's into you're, gonna knew what they were, like when they were at. You. Have that part of their purse How would you down nowadays someone could be like oh yeah, I, like you know I like it ass front. I liked the bad brains- and I like some countries bandit I like taylor swift sure by the way his you like. I don't I don't. I was recently on a trip with all my friends: crews, their daughters up huge taylor, swift fan, and so I was just listening them talk about I No, Told me one song that I did recognised, but I don't know any taylor, swift, songs and am sorry taylor, swift. If you listen to this, I just I'm and I have three daughters. So it's weird to not know, and I think,
They were kind of like taylor. Swift here am, I am I that'll be urgently. You probably know one like it. You in here and told me one and I was like oh Yeah- recognised shake it off at the shake it off party. I think it was something like those adults and I'll catch you tune share, but but these days you can listen to like. Actually I had them, I had a really good. You know I was apparent sure I mean you have some moments as a parent where you're like alright we're we're doing something right. I walked into the garage gym the other day and my thirteen year old daughter was in there doing squats and listening to less up, that's ok, I want you back there in the house and I find my life as it were. something on here. You know we'd go in the right direction. My point is that Ok, so that was you. You had begin you're in the tsar I had. I used to have a big spaces of me
here is a twenty. Then, when earrings- and here I had three in my town, one of my nose like in this as in the catholic school I started to- I started to do my ears on my own with safety pence. and then my moment, let me color my hair whatever I wanted the purpose for this I, like I like tat news. I like piercings. I, like I don't know. I was always kind of like it was also one of those things. Like my mom was like just never pierce your face like just don't pierce your face and the sheep nobody knows, peers fourteen sold like you'd creative monster, you me permission. I'm just gonna, I'm gonna see far that permission can go. when you look back. Was it like rebellious thing. If you're trying to show your parents like hey, I'm a rebel, you can only control me. No, I have just what you're into I just think I was into it. I had a lot of respect for my parents, like my my mom, and I are so similar that we butted heads now. I see it and understand why it wasn't. Like I didn't like her, I mean she was
basically a single mamma. I was on the road for couple weeks at a time right with two kids were in two different sports and like a boy and a girl and like a board sports, the boy for my mother, My brother was a motocross racer Then what knows did he do he got into soccer a little bit? He too Tackling nobody's hips are locked, they don't think sorry do there, so they don't move. And then he got into football but racing moto. motor was like serious in our family. Dad would go with him the weekends mama go with me on the weekends like it was serious so you're. This little kind pierced faced angry ball angry kid and then you graduate high school and now what you do not run high school. So for me I left a catholic school halfway through and I went to another school. That letter was close for my parents that what was little different paid rugby there, that was of that was the farm tom. That was like the I was like the weirdo because,
I walked into the school and they're all like wearing plaid button up shirts and they all like work on farms like they. You know they all had that kind of vibe to them and and I'll tell. I started dating one of those bull, and then that was like all she's. Ok I and then, as you do, in high school. You have like your view, like the worst breakup of what you think is going to be your entire life, and I was like I need out of this and then I will do so. I need another town like I just right away. Feeling so dramatic, and then I I went to college in ottawa for the first programme. I could get accepted a too at algonquin, which was travel and tourism, which means nothing ever those that means and then there is this. I was oh seven, so a seven year in your first year of college, I got my first it shouldn't gravers month. I owe I mean I I I to play soccer only made it.
halfway through the trials which worked out kind, a perfect, because then I went into my classes. Hated them november rolled around and then I went down to rest wednesday, and that's when I met the lady on the bus woman was a military guess and was the initial initial, with an eye contact. What what was her uniform and how she carried herself she's in the air force. She just had like the row of medals and she just look perfect likes. You just looked like you, you and you see in a movie where you have like weird moments movies, where there's like the catalyst for the turning point in the movie where you look and there's like the lights kind of shining on them the kind of the way they light it cause. I know you like letting I'm talking to you for lighting yeah she's talking article, but I'm sorry currently yeah. He doesn't care about that stuff. but like it's just one of those moments where it's like, I don't know, and I was drawn to her- I always it, but I disliked the mill it not. The mill Sorry, but I always like had this respect for soldiers like we're, always did remembrance day
Schools always did it. While Israel poems aired participate. We was where the poppy you doesn't do poppies were we poppies, which is the red poppy on the on the left, and then I don't know how long we'll be able to do that for anymore, but we do that still right now- and I just I want to talk to her- she just have this kind of aura about her. That just seemed like she was a cool person and you had a freaking blog block. cancer, t shirt on and persons interface, did you over to say something to debt? And then would you say I just said I don't know fact, whereas, but it I'd kinda talking to me about our life, a little bed and she's like one. The first Maybe I could fly and she had. Sir fur, like some I'm issues superbowl, I mean she managers party, like forty like she was like, live jet lag in. Did you do time and norms? Slash? Did you do time further on, like she shouldn't be on the bus by yourself? Like maybe
need some assistance kind of elderly type, so she was just in her uniform for where was remnants that there was no answer yet much because she says on the bus oil. I thought maybe use active duty. Those reforms older much older, much much older. She, it was remembrance, tat. So that's november, eleven such veterans day for you guys are you guys, say, happy veterans day right. two others. I some level of controversy about this. I don't yeah, I the other some controversy about veterans day about what you did proper salutation and what, She'd say why shouldn't say I think happy veterans day, I think it's ok, because it supposed to be appreciative of veterans, seven offer us not from a moral day right, sir. You shouldn't say happy memorial day because it's like a day of remembrance, are you guys have? That is our railways? I wouldn't say there now when we have a memorial day, so we re whence it is like the day or two more. Moreover, yet that's momentarily, but on november eleven russ, so
it was down there and I go to the ceremonies a lot like. I always go my mom and dad used to take us like just teaching us like. We have to go pay respects. This is what we do. You shake their hand. You say thank you for your service and delivery. I like it's like an hour ceremony, stop at eleven. Everyone stops, that's it so I my way back from the ceremony, so she must have in going the same direction and I was on the bus and unjust tat with her, and I got often like again like movie moment where you feel this kind of like paul to some, leader, will understand why and just decided going to join the army, and then you go. Recruited account homes that process take. It went fast for me so I went into the recruiters office like the next week, did a little bit of googling when it. critters offers, and now I got no at sight of thy got no more there and I walked. and said I want to join the military and I'm gonna do something the front lines and should look ok but Does that mean
and then she said, but here's the thing like anything that you, if you do your pay, work, anything that you join anything that if it's on the front it's truly like a front lines position like it's dag red, meaning like we need people, so you will deploy with your dagger, like dag, read like you'd, be like dead, green or dead ride. Meeting deployable non deployable like for red was like we, they needed people in the service cause that was rotating them It's like those are the basis that returning people every like six months, a new base, would go and replace and rip out and then it'll be a new set, a new set of canadian. So I so I picked one one of the jobs. Initially they set, and they said I was too small and then our artillery in their like. Ok, but I was like infantry is too small, but artillery fits the gap. How much the runway hundred about it makes sense logic to you in more than a hundred. I do now yeah yeah right now. I'm at one o went away then did you with more one hundred pounds reply prior, probably
on their cause. I still leg like when I when I was in high school going into college like I was still We an athlete like when I I didn't just like play rugby for fine, like I still raced moto, I still ran? I still did everything like state really up on my fitness. That was something like. I needed to be doing is a big part of my identity, and then I went for the college soccer team, so I was fit Sarah fairly fit for you. the girl and then you they said nobody infantry Could you two small? He I think there are more worried about wait just like cons, carrying the will for sure it's friggin, brutal yeah I was going to put india and, if you're, that would be, you know me carrying one hundred. Pounds is half my body weight you carrying one hundred lbs is your body weight. That means me carrying two hundred. it's actually a way to twenty five freak out and listen to anybody. Agree: yeah, yeah, yeah, alright, better we've been through that before haven't we, so I weighed two hundred and twenty five pounds and if
that would mean I'd have to carry two hundred twenty five pounds, which two hundred twenty five pounds for me to carry is really really really hard. That's a lot of weight carry so for someone carry their body weight to Tom so they say no to that get. But then they say yes to ordinary, which is also a kind of interesting just because you can still be carried out on a way which I yeah I dunno. I dunno. I dunno, I dunno their reasoning, but they said yes, so I said: okay cool sounds great to me. I don't want to be in the tank, I'm claustrophobic and it's like a tin. Can I don't like that? The idea of like think of like popcorn and like a microwave inside of a bag I'm just like The weird thing for you as you'd, be like perfect kind of tank. I was our ws system gunnar further t labs, so I love that has in the lower than the turret just luck and underneath it everywhere. was all tight. Nine could fit all my gear on and not take anything off and whose perfect how long before he left for bookshop. Oh man, I e g generator when I learnt from I signed the papers you I'm leaving for boo camp
a month and a half just under two months. It was first fairly fast pace, good giving much tat singular issued in they needed, get your ass in the vehicle and like yeah. I'm surprised they don't pull you out day of like. Oh, you want to join cool sign here. Boom you're gone yeah. They used to do that really park in new jersey. I used to do that. Yeah. We couldn't do that to people nowadays Now you get sued for something you get sick pressure, so month, half that have. Would your parents This whole scene again they knew as a tobin type, a personnel they had always been more tomboy I'd, always you no more the terawatt pants and the other the socks sandals like my parents. Really, mrs kinnock call she's go do something a little more aggressive. We we expected that now we didn't like the military, though, because I didn't punt, I never shot guns. I've never exposed to them are never enjoyed them. There were none part of my life when you think military in the act of war. You think guns. I didn't have any interesting guns so for me it
Moreover, this seems like it's good fit for her because it's gonna challenge her physically and going to challenge or psychologically. So we support it and they were happy happy enough to next to draw me off So you leave now in january. Two thousand eight is two thousand and eight yet ten thousand So do you know when you sign up that you're gonna go deployed to Afghanistan. Yesterday gave us like when I when know how I know that the whole they don't tell you that with eight they tell you like. Were canada isabel? I think the species canadians are involved in an active military. war. We are not a united like we're, not un. We are part of a fighting force that will rotate. If you do one of these jobs, you will end up deploying period. I'm sorry, okay, that's pretty cool well, it was, moreover,. don't be shocked if you go somewhere here soon like real, soon like at a rapid pace, yeah, it's good that they set expectations that way, but it'd also be cool. If that was kind of a guarantee, and again I'm just going back to like my own personal life, where, if they could have told me like you're, guaranteed to go,
Everyone I know would have been like sign me up. But now too, though, right, I hear a lot of people like like not to like tangent off of this sorry, but I went to gage town with one theory right now. The end of last year I got invited back by the canadian military like who'd, never called, and then the I called last year and were like hey, you never got to shoot your last round and as a gunner, that's the thing yeah yeah. We get to shoot one more when we're when we're pulled the lanyard there and I never got di. So we want to when I give up to ridicule yeah, so they brought mountain did it and it was a whole thing by Tom. But that's I talk to us in a whole new the soldiers that were the on the ranged, late rounds down, and we all hot and they made a huge thing out of it right. So I was all these people that it is, and I was like, Michael because our deployment oh no. None of us have we ve all in kind awaiting, but it doesn't seem like it's going
and so we just gotta range and may do access and we train and conflict. I know what it's like to be in when that's not an act of war. Yeah, that's they're, gonna have to who maintain the training standards until the next war comes around and that's what the country needs from. We had people that have been guilt, the felt guilty. You know I was only in from your own name. the three ninety seven I never did anything. I feel like an animal came in you held the line when you do what country s you to do, that's right, nothing wrong with that and and without ever everyone else's praying for war and in a young bastards are out there before we know it. I know it this coup if what you wish for which got told to never, never never pulled a prayer for war. From my at one time. So that's where it goes from new young and dumb oh you get to boot. Camp has bouquet shock. Why are they start Ellen right away? I really sorry cap, my mommy delight.
then freaked me our actor from me. I wasn't like yeah, that was our former communication imports, legitimately, oh yeah. So when I got it wasn't my as much for shock as it was that all of my staff for french, unlike thick accent, french, so when they would yell at you, though they would speak really fast. So you didn't always understand them, so you'd make nicknames for them, and things like that, so it was more of a shock to the system there and now looking back, knowing signs and sentiments of like tv, I and pity, ass and stuff, like that whole some of my staff were. with some trauma there, yeah cause, they were part of, like first rotations, all going through right and they they'd all done like bosnia before and they had all done a couple of them. I've done like a few other type. You know gigs that end up causing some issues, and now I understand why they were whipping chairs and hair.
Triggers, and it wasn't an act for some of them for some of it was. It was great for some of them. It is an act, oh, like the the marine corps pros I know I I guess I know more about the marine corps drill instructors, but that's part of their thing like that they're going to put on little act for yeah to to set that image and everything in there to they know what they're doing yeah, I'm not, and I think that's fine. I think that there should be a level of an sunday that has to be brought forth all the time. When someone is training, I think that's what makes people strong as if you are I used to that level, intensity and you're not used to that, and you go into a situation where now that's being presented constantly you're not going to know how to work in that. So I accept that. I understand it's a part of the process and you have to Do it, but it was more, it was a basic was was fun for me again. It was a challenge, something I had to learn things I had to get good at, and I was good at the fitness part and if you were good at the fitness part, you were fine, because we were on the ninth floor,
of the mega and the mega. The only people got to use the elevators with staff, and if you got caught you elevators, your whole room was going out the window and then you're gonna carried all up to stay, so we're on the ninth floor and again I was physically it's so stairs were not an issue, so we had to go down for breakfast I'd down a quick up liquid to come back in from like pizza was up quick, so I got for showers. I got to eat first. I was always ready first, just because I was faster than other on our part of worked out? Ok from how long is can we do care like twelve or thirteen weeks they ve been changing and you can and with that, and then you go to like the advanced school for artillery. First, we did sq first, which was like all weapon, so grenades, Carl gustafson machine guns, see sevens like c seven ch, like all the stuff that you're going to use. everybody go to that school. I think anyone whose combat arms does I Then how long is at school? I was my four weeks and then or two then artillery, but we did our is in the same spot because most of the people
I was in basic with quite a few of them were artillery or infantry or or common engineer- and so most of us got sent to gauge shout cause. combat engineers are above us, the artillery run this floor and then in future and another for the army are out there, the The battery is out there. That's where my sergeant markleham blonde. He who was with me advocates a he's actually posted to gauge down. He was the one who got the artillery for me to go shoot me. strand, so he like organised all that but he's out and gauge town. So that's where they're like the school is and doubly battery as you did you locked army. When you wrote it, I love their me. I love the army is, I didn't, have think about what I had to wear and have to think of what I had to do and if I could just follow there's enough and show up physically I was winning it's not difficult, still be stupid, shut your mouth, that's it just just follow in line to be a time for you to make decisions most the time in less than a leadership position does not so just accept that move forward with it, but I I liked the
me because I had to show up every day if I wanted to be successful and That was real like if you didn't show up. You fall behind it's a problem and then, if you're my size and then you're, one of the only women in the unit and you fall behind it's even more of a problem. So don't be the problem as long as you're. Not the problem then you're. Fine. I really liked the military when it seems like you did too it was fun. I think I think if you look back at it now, you know hindsight is twenty twenty, but you learn a lot about yourself right and I I like figuring out who I am I like challenging, who I am or what I think my lines are or what I think the stand As for me, like I like the constant having to figure it out, so it was fun for me at the time. So then, what do you do when you're done with all that training now you're in europe. What are you going a battalion. So so we did ask you never did dp one and that's when we switched from you know people who other
the nearest and infantry and things like that and then we went in to where they are, we moved into just artillery. So then we went to like not with w battery but art. our schools there and then we started to learn the one o fives and mortars. So we did that and then on graduating on the parade, the I think it was the rsm of our kids that came to our graduation and was like you, you you and you and you are all being posted to vow, and the role that gets. It is the french base in quebec. God forgive yet. And damage to combat arms based, so they have like the van vandals out of there. I can't remember what the armored guys are called there and then the firewall credit there, so we got hosted in originally. I wasn't supposed possibly going their originally s supposed to be going to peddle wala, but there was a The guy in our troops are gun troop. When we did the law We could training where re out in the fields, and it was really really hot. His kidneys started failing and we found others like too much creed. See news happening in this
I'm serious, I'm dead, deadly, serious and then looked anti a mary of laplante. Who was my officer I kind of brought afore. hey. Can I can I say: about like cause, if he's going to girl, he can't be to prohibit boyd. It's too hot. He can't he can't be in the sun. Is, can it'll fail so they're going to? He can't go to val cause vows deploying next so then what happened was his dad was an officer I penta walla and I asked if we could train so we swapped posting, so I'm gonna vallon he s going to peddle wala, so then marry levanter who may have there. She came to evacuate with me as well. She deployed, but she was just on a different gun, so you get state. attached to what unit is yes, I was. I went to five rock the sank, I'll see to it that the fifth a royal canadian horse artillery that's what that's right, I and I think it was august. Yet of wheels. Neighbours are geographically compared to where you grew up. Ok,
group in ontario. So if you think- and you too to ontario here- could go back to the right of it and I go no really small times, I'm probably about eight eighteen plus hours. Yes, it's not you're, not by whom no not not not remotely close to home you're, not going to be seeing your parents on the weekends well. No a basic training was in quebec as well at seizure soda. One was about five hours, so cause I slept two hours from ottawa, then from Ottawa to there's a couple of hours and then, where I was posted was north of quebec city. So I was like way above where there was any english make a any any english. Making people so you show up and then are you guys immediately in a work, are preparing to replace him if you get there, it was funny we showed up that day and I was with. I think it was like three or four other guys. Our english. speaking, we all show up, they all got put and had to go, do duty work right away, and then I got to just hang out house because a bunch of people who, like myself,
because my sergeant I talk about this now and because the first time I saw him last year was ten years like ago. So I saw him just recently in him and I've gotten really close. Ever since with all this stuff is happening and he's. I remember the first day you came in they fucked up so bad because they treated you differently right off the bat. That in just make you go, do work to right. Now all of you go fuck in europe on him the force. They are the bullet mob force and I got to hang out and talk to all the guys that were on the troops that we were going to be working with yeah right. and he told me on day one he said like. I don't want you and his broken ass english. I make fun of em for it now because I don't want to unlike us, because it again I look like I wouldn't be able do the job, and now that means you're down a person on a gun in on a workup. That's a problem, then again liability asset or liability. What do you more look like I looked like the light. In southern. How long did it take you to kind of prove that you could do the job, We went out in the field with sam, took a little bit
they were. The rsm was with us on our graduating time and we will work on the triple seventh, so they had seen us work. So it's not like. I was incompetent. Saw me work. It was fine, but it took me well you didn't go and shoot the triple seven's. Until I think we went to texas for work up. So at that point it was getting really close, the window deploying an april, so I got there on august and they said craig learn french annie. I take the rws system in french and you gotta take your mortar course in french and you gotta take your triple seven course in french. So I was like ok I would then you gotta be flowing in it on the radio. So, when you're on the tower you can communicate and then you can understand how the gun works, french, so I just learned at all in english and then we got posted there and then to go and learn all these courses in french satisfied How are you with languages, which not I mean here's? The saddest part is like where I live. It's mostly mandarin cantonese or like farsi or arabic. in the end. So I don't know grade. I spoke
in high school a little bit that little spanish, but then, when I went into a place there is no english, it actually worked in my favor had no choice, so I'd be sitting there on parade just going, and then they would marching in moving and I would go. Oh, what was at the ghost? What goes left fret, let so I would say only pick it up, and so I started speaking frankish It was like a really nice mix of french and english and I would start to really my staff, crazy and below, such ass a guest skill book, off I'll say eyeing day, and then they would translate word for word like I was asking syria question, so they then appreciate but eventually started to pick up on like little things and then once we got to texas, I started to didn't. Take me long affair at the gun
because a lot of the times I would run charges where I'd run lanyard and I only had to load rounds the odd time if we were short people I would load rounds. I can do it, it's definitely I'm going to tiro faster. Secondly, I can do it or you not allowed random, so I'll do the charges- and from surround were eighty two hundred pounds so There's like it's like a weird cause round, on the bottom. So it's like its technique really, so sergeant, would do as he would take me to the gym and he would give me like ways to work out where I could take like a heavy dunbar. all he would put a chair on one side and then a chair at the other end. I want you to load it like grab it like you're grabbing around and then lifted up like you're grabbing around and then walk over and go put it on the chair, like you're, putting it on the tray and then pick it back up and do it again and just start doing that. So I was getting repetition and building the muscles to actually to
the lifting and then a lotta just he would take an expression of gas. Any work with me in the german and we like just work on the little muscles on the arms so that it like, if I was loading in a mortars, a certain way like could use more of one hand rather than my whole body, leaning over on the machine, and so it's it's just about technique. Just learning technique and then really just honing and on that technique at that point. So for me it wasn't it wasn't too but we got two. We went to wainwright first wainwright, first wainwright first, yet the that winter, so it was no Alberta, and then you also know winter plus Alberta, it normally It was a minus forty. So whatever that translates into an american fuck old friends is too cold daylight, the guns freeze, so we would do this operation called operation may belief and it was like work up and it was like all of us, those like all the whole region
it was like infantry artillery combat arms like everyone that was gonna, be going. We were all doing like a similar, thing and we had to wear these vests that had sensors on them. And then they had other military come in, and people who aren't deploying and play the taliban and and you just where the sensors, but the great about the sensor is for me. If I and the turret the censored and I luggage take the sensors off and then everyone else would die and I would not be alone. internet her fire. That's right exactly so we so Wainwright first, and we did. We did our field exercise there. That's when we our first live fire exercise with everyone like with you, know the griffin overhead firing and like all of us where we got it for live rounds One of the guys from our unit was sitting in the truck and remember those trucks are called a telegram was like a half time. They have the big, the green over top
it put people in them on the bench seats there and he fuckin, just fucking had the rounds and put the but stocked up pop and it around, off rate through and all my guy just remember the hell storm. I know the guy's name of safe. I remember the house or many had to be english to he had to be one of the fucking which case that came on very unit, so it was that it was interesting. That was there's only like six of us can and not just now, We want to fight that backs up, so it was. It was fun. my staff. A really great. So I got long was really great. Fontaine was really great. roby show he was. This rubbish shows like bombing chef roby shows like sick, but at least almost three hundred pounds, just huge guy, but akkadian french so like this really thick cannot understand french. He was fantastic way. I had. I had good staff members with us there, so I learned a lot in the euro.
Texas. After that, we did one week in texas just one week. It was either for her fort worth wherever you go, shoot live from. I can't remember where, but we were we want. the forts and texas summer with flew in an We flew in and We immediately got walked into a room where we got sat down about all the dangers. animals that we would encounter when we went out in the field and how not to squat a p, and then I got the look and because we were going out and we are going to shoot a live artillery on the triple sevens. We're gonna do it for the week and so they're, like you know, if there's not a porter party, don't go down what these spiders look like these. What these snakes look like, if you hear this rattling, don't walk over there, so we got this whole like spiel, like welcome to taxes like everything, it'll kill you just don't fuck around like okay, so we went access than we did. We did live fire and
that was funny when all this happened. I actually found out. I found a video of a shooting live fire there. It was so it was so fantastic to watch back cause it's like so different life. It doesn't even feel like a doesn't feel like the same person it doesn't. It feels like you know that scientists were talking about how like there's like, might be like simulation theory kind of how there's like different parts of our lives going on, but just slight tweaks, all across space. It's like it feels like it's a different time. It doesn't even compare with me. So when you watch that back doesn't look like me, doesn't walk. Like me, just sounds like me: strange has just strange yeah and then how long did you did? I know that you go in afghanistan at this point. We I am, we didn't. We knew like, like our new unc on graduation prayed, we knew like in a broadly blog. You did April, said, like you, guys are the next rotation for the summer, so we knew it would have been. April or may, to about September october that
you know, you'd, be leaving sometime in that time frame yeah. No, we need to be believing either April or may either April may yeah. We weren't, we weren't sure it just depended on who left first and then, which gun was going first first, it was alpha, then it was charlottes. We weren't sure which, which unit was actually going to rip out first, It is not quite as squared away under travel plans, as everyone might think they are you might be leaving around this date. What canada is doing that right now to the the canadian soldiers in latvia are having to pay for their own food and travel they're, not reimbursing it multiple times well we're on we're on a show of force right now, so Canada is rotating people over to latvia, and I don't know we're giving all the money to ukraine, so we don't have to give it to our people. That's kind of crazy yeah, so yeah they're, not they're, not squared away on things like that. ok, what you're? What your final sort of terms?
guidance as you guys are getting ready to deploy. You get a little leave time beforehand. Yeah we got to think it was like two or three weeks yeah and we could go kind of do whatever we wanted. We went I hold gun troop went to Cuba, We decided we were all going to go to cuba work on vacation right before yeah. Just all of us, we were just going to all cause. A lot of these people are friends and they're. Like their close, the town small! I would speak french. I know a couple people they speak. the english. You took a whole crew to cuba. we all were in cuba. We went to cause a very, very dark varadero. I think it was that yeah, because americans can't go to have a weekend. I mean you can now can't you think we can. No, actually I'm not sure, can we echo charles, don't know, don't you guys have any missy there. Now. Ok, you alone her guiding here, let me out of here, but how we want to cuba and we went. Unlike does the whole everyone just got drunk. It was just a topside shown. Did you go for a week? I must do.
that day like Simon that trip. So I got all that was an interesting tripoli now call plus snarling, not alcohol. It wasn't. I want I've, never been a big drinker. I've never I'll calls never been one What about a big swimmer yeah? I could swim, yeah swim! So how'd you almost wrong so. I went out like a dumb ass and I walked. You know when there's like an old, it's called. They have these big, concrete barriers that go pretty. we're out sometimes into the ocean, and I dunno, if it's for, like cruise ships to kind of come in or like things to leave, but anyway there was a pier and it went quite a ways, and it was a little rough out windy. But I was like that's a cool photo So I walked all the way out, thereby myself and a wave came and knock meet not into the cyber. The boats would come back into the ocean side and it just fuckin turned to me and I've never experience. I didn't up near the ocean, I grub new. Like ontario, so that we can see that
I I'm not exactly I just like bald myself up and held on a camera in my hand and glasses, and I just held on like this and just and hoped because there was no way I could figure out which way's up down like there was no I'm like I'm going to have to ride this out and it was horrific and I don't fuck with the ocean any like I. I love the ocean, but they're like serious from a distance. No I'm going and all the time series amounts of respect just like it that looks raftlike don't play like we were just then in the bahamas, with our son and that it was the ocean was rock and one of the days in mexico were to go to the ocean. I want to get like pushed and I was like But your rest on I'll. Take you to this point and I'll. Let it push you in, but it had a nasty undertow and I said, like don't mess. Bobby. Don't turn around don't mess with a guy. I insufficient just come so some into slam is like you can't he doesn't understand, but I ll the hard way and so is finally did let me out, I had it
in my hands, but I remembered very distinctly I'll, never like if it looks like that in your appear like I'm. Not I'm not doing that ever did the picture. I dont even if the camera was broadcast, so that was the thing is the camera broke, and that was when I was gonna use them deployment, but the only reason I have any photos from deployment was a catherine valentine gave me her little hot, pink camera to take with me outside the wire. So I didn't, I didn't not have photos, I just didn't my camera. It's me it's my fault and then you're, pretty pre leave pretty much yeah, and then I drove drove back and drove across country, and then I drove I drove him to visit with my parents, and the thing was as they asked me like. Do you want us to come on the day of it? Employment, and I was will now it's all the way and that could say like don't, don't bother it's totally fine. So I spent the last couple days, I have in my brother, my mom, my dad and I dont think I understood have any of what I was going to do, and I don't think anyone else really understood the gravity of what I was going to do, because at that point
in the war. You guys had already been involved in Iraq. It has already been in afghanistan to america. I felt like start to see more of what was going on in those actual countries. We can it's like we weren't, seeing that we at that point we had had. a really serious incident with Nikola godard. She was a artillery captain and she was in the white schoolhouse attack. And so that was our first female that we lost in our first, like I think I think officer, not one hundred percent, but she that was the only thing I I hadn't heard much about this. I had been told leno the fucking, Well that and these middle east pr people are are killing our soldiers in like that. Is that, like we didn't, we didn't get a briefing like we didn't get shit, we didn't get like a cultural hey. This is what africa These are really like. We didn't get like. This is how they speak. This is how they shake their hands. These are the type of languages. They speak, this type of food that we didn't get the fucking win, the memo waiting at the memo when you get the memo,
so when we did finally deploy. It was like is false idea of what we were doing and in even when we were there. Whether I was with the british with the canadians or the americans. I wasn't told shit, so I really know we're doing I was just wait, every morning in doing what I was told. How old were you at this point? I was nineteen how did you guys get oversees gregg military aircraft? Or did you got fire there on civilian? Our? So we flew so we flew from quebec, so my parents don't come long at my parents, don't come. I I did dec on my own, which I regret to this day. And I we go over on a our first? Stop was civilian aircraft. It was just us, though, so like I reach all had our own rose kind of situation. We flew to dubai, and that was our stop point, and then with then that's when we got to the hurts and then we ve food, the hurts from their into candor
and then you can again kandahar? Where do you end up operating out of so? For us we went to Canada house, I would do so on the cyber canada house was we had. The officers were saying like those container like spaces are what are called, so they had spots there and then we we only stay there for three days. So he came in. We got our our catholic we got here. In dubai, like our our plates and our weapons, we got like a couple mags and things like our helmets and all that than we had shipped everything adults there. So that's when we got our big cases that we shift months ahead, that we're gonna bring with us out to the fob. So we went staying at caf. We never stayed at caf. That was not our spots, a lot of officers rotated in and out, but we didn't so to have the unit two there are argon troops went. I wouldn't want to mass on guard when went to another canadian fog and then my my guys alpha went to far ramrod out in the may one district, so
we were the only ones from our regiment working with a non canadian set of people, we were with the there was a first guys there and just like americans going in and out Now I know now. I know it is looking at and then there were some like special operations, guy's going in and out that just looked at me, words, and I didn't know what that meant back I didn't understand what special operations community was yeah That's really upset father ramrod user firebrand. In that kandahar. What we did is did like half day where we did like an you d overview training of like what we were finding and kind of what we're seeing so they brought us over till I get an open area. And then they kind of had set up where it look like there was like some garbage over you're some rocks over here, some piles of stuff we're here and then another wall here they'd like bring around but like this- is, like you know, cigarette butt package where they took two tin, foil pieces and wrapped a wire here- and you stepped on that. So we would learn about cadiz of the.
of ideas were finding then like daisy chains in the walls, and we were starting to see. This is what they were currently seeing in country and then the next day we did a briefing where we went into a room and then we looked at like what suicide bombers look like and when it looks, looks like when they blow up, when we watch slides of like this is what we are seeing in country and if you see a vehicle born, if you ceiling d keyboard like we're seeing these, and this was just kind of like this regime. Situational awareness that you were being given, and then we got like a couple booklets to keep our little pockets that we're all in french abode Afghanistan. Did you still not speak french wrong after, like I'm? Ok with it? I spoke, and I remember the moment where I it collect that I, under go to sentence, I was being yelled, I remember very clearly. I very vividly was doing camp that during northern afghanistan, Afghanistan, when you started to. Finally, I sounds like having a little bit french yeah. You know when I don't do speak. Another language do speak another
language is ok, but that there is a whisper I was just going to say: we be inclusive taco we there was a moment where I felt almost like a. I heard, someone speaking and I was like. Oh I got that got I got it all I didn't get like word. Word word I was like. Oh, a moment after my sergeant was pissed off and it looked at domination bobby show and he was like some issues something along the lines of like? I can't believe she just fucking did that and I went welcome plaza and he stood up and walked into the tent and slammed the door, and I was like oh, I shouldn't have said that that was worse. I made it worse. I understand surgeon, yeah just let him know understood we just such a complaint and he was just like yes, the I had a gun that was at the front for lebanon and have read books, but for that I just you go there. You doesn't matter what language you speak.
Spanish, english, german. They are going to speak french to you and you're, going to learn french and that's it. He has how it goes yeah, so Joel you had your he. He came into my office rate after I did you show last time he walked into my office knock on the door, Like is kelsey here and then my girlfriend tell it was like why and then he's like. Oh I've done jocko. I want to drop off a book for her to read so he lives near me yeah. So this book is a nice guy. He reaches out from time to time thinking he did. He wrote another book, I'm sure we'll do it Some point on upon gas: if think it's called seville, things called civil, maybe it's about like the civilian transformation or something I haven't read it yet cause he sent it to me, but good stocks, a lot about, So then what your job in afghanistan for you get there you get up to ramrod job as a triple seven. Gunnar
so tell everybody what that means. So it means I ran a one: five, five millimeter how it, sir, that shot a hundred pound round max forty kilometres so miles I speak. Operators to luxembourg, perfect, gray, fantastic, and so we provided fire for the infantry in those people that were within that distance of bob ramrod, so the americans, what had happened was There was a canadian reservists unit that was at five ramrod prior to us, so we ripped them out. Those people does a noose as a welcoming gift on our tent with who that was an american unit. You said no, I was a kid, eighty unreserve unit mia- left your news to welcome you. I was really lovely dark humor, the outer dark, yamaha, ok,
answer. Your job is how so we stand and watch. We do doing twelve hours on the gun. Are you working at night like how's? It go down? Ok, so we got two ramrod. First, we're gonna get the overview of what was going on. These are the americans and here's the tricky situation. Most of these french people. Dont speak english. and so when you are dealing with the corn of our farm that we were on. We were responsible for one o, p tower the rest, the the other three. I believe, three or four that the word think there were three were a mere american run. We did not those at all, so our job was to provide individuals for for our ships on that o p tower and thereby to people at a time. So there's two guns there and one from each gun would go at that time frame and you would do our chefs together, so my shift often was twelve before or forty eight? I liked the foreign aid
because I could sleep get woken up and then my sergeant would let us go back to sleep for a couple of hours. If you did the twelve to four, they would make you get up with everyone else, and so it worked out. Alright. so for me. What we do is we re assumes we got there. We started doing chefs like the second. We landed, they're leaving a we gotta get on the rotation. So we have the rotation board up and then we would have to do. One of us would have to do JD with the americans every week. So at that point the triple seven's running when we were called d run, so we, on call for anybody in the area and any of the americans that we're leaving and we would kind of our stuff. Would know like hey. This is happening or work. Be a little more aware or no one's doing JD. My swings in operation goin on everyone beyond standby, get so the sir. You guys wouldn't sit at the guns, no and then when something would happen, run boom. You get to the gods yet, and so was a little more the dramatic kind of job because it for the most part, if we weren't on the
We are either servicing the guns working on them. I was the tea at the tea lab gunnar. So I was in charge of the T. Love so I had to do We would do gdp and then we would do tower work, and then I- be responsible for making sure that that machine gun service and then that are to be where system. If we got said the where I'm good to go on that site was in charge, and otherwise they would are because he knew it wasn't good for anyone to be bored. There was not. We need to keep people continent a schedule, so you would make work tasks. removing gravel over here going to make this look nice round the ten here we're gonna. U known bottle, make workshops and now we would all all of us, unless you were sleeping unless it is your turn to sleep or, however, it was scheduled out. If you heard them like the mission, IRAN's of you in the shower frightened by if you're workin out sprint like he did matter you're on the guns. Unless you were on gd or you're on the tower you run to the guts, that's just how it works middle of the night. Doesn't matter guns and it's all of us right, so stakes a lot to run those guns. You can run em,
give your doing on, for example, we're doing a night shoot and it was scheduled, plan operation, the guys we're goin out. We knew at twelve o clock and for the next that was like the next three hours Every twenty minutes were firing loom on the dot. So then it was three of us can do that so that my sergeant would be like hey you, you and you were going to do this or What he would say is like hey. We don't need to be won the tower that night one can go and then what you'll do it? If it's your shift and we're running the gun, you come down, Inspired then go back up to the tower, so you would just constantly this rotation. I like doing those took as those weaken interesting for me, because I got to listen a little more learn a little more from listening to the right it was rather than when you're in, like a you, don't just rounds downrange just to let you learn anything you just kind of in that muscle memory mindset and then how often are you firing rounds? Do you think
like every natalie refine rounds, or is it like three nights? Every four nights just depended it honestly just dependent dependent on people in the area dependent on how much the americans were doing that were close enough to us. We've heard a lot of loom, we did a lot alone for lotta night stuff like a lot a lotta loom. I know that the their guns. Bravo and charlie cause. My girlfriends been and sob were on those guns. They ran, they fuck. It ran rounds. Downrange bigtime therein up more centralized area we were helping on, but we did when we did far we find We were rounds downrange like we. If we were going to fire mission, we were doing like ten, at least that's on each gun, and we were hammer the mouth and then we're moroccan waiting, but I there's stuff I found out that I can't talk know, but its wild to learn afterwards. What you were doing good idea, no what we were shooting who were shooting for what were the rules and engage
I didn't know what rounds on range where they were got like. I just fire the fuckin gun and do your job, that's it, and so it was interesting to kind of learn a little bit more after it's about what we were doing at ramrod and how that worked as canadians with americans and like the dynamics and stuff like that was interesting. People on the ground really like to have artillery support. That's for damn sure that's pretty cool it was. It was great too, because I really took a liking to the gun I dont know why there's something about. I don't know, maybe it's because I'm really small but there's something about the big boom, the big impact, the idea that you can a small person on the other side of it and still do massive damage is just like. I don't know it just felt powerful and like we were actually supporting something in doing something that was meaningful. and so I knew when people called us like. If we got a call in the middle, the nightly bomber, they chef, in our tent and then sarge was on the other ten, but like what
in a three hundred pound man get up in his boxers and sprint in the middle of the night is probably one of the funniest things we'll ever see like it. Is you that when you were, when you are getting a call, somebody needed you, it wasn't like offer. Fine did you guys have a standard of like how long before you got downrange, we gotta K. We get this done in thirty seconds or we need to get this done in two minutes. Did you guys have a standard independent because sometimes we'd get a call and it'd be like messi on set like let's go fire fire fire or it would be hey? Everyone here already standby wait, two minutes wait for the call and then fire and then finally get it just dependent adjust. It was very who they can enter their common to address a constant then the council really ass to the greek ordinance. Yes, oh, it's happened has replied the mercury judgments in four. Yet so what's happening is the full up front for observation officers? That's attached to the infantry in its there are tellers so like hop oh and Daniel vent tour, where the british one and that I was with that was my first experience of being on.
our artillery. So I watched a guy see the other side of it. So they would call in a a like a grid, coordinate that would relate to our and with where, like fontaine was and the she would plotting and give us the grid, and she would give us when she's spit it out to the the coms then we would hear it and then sergeant relate and then the guy on the sites with would move the big wheels and then we would, how many rounds and then went out prep the rounds than one of us would prep the charges and one of them stand by the lanyard, and sometimes we were how issues with hydraulics when that happened things that messy fast, because then you have the pump it manually, and if you've never done that before it's really hard to articulate how difficult it is it's like because the the more hydraulic fluid you get in it, the stiffer it gets, but you have to get it to a certain point to be able to get the recoil to go where it won't kick back right. So it depends on the grid, the closer the round, the higher that gun's got to go right. The further the the angle goes. So if something went wrong with the heart,
Carlton you're doing that manually, like that's, that's a whole job on its own, just trying to get that, and so we we had that happen quite a few times, which was an interesting expert. but being on the other side of it was wild too, because that is truly terrifying to be underneath indirect fires, a horror when you're on the receiving support As for damn sure I just I don't know what I expected or thought it would be like cause liked. I think the goal for me would ultimately to be a fool like that was its but best of both worlds to go the infantry units and do what I wanted to do. But I get the collar tell her what the thing that I love to do right so getting too witness it and then the other other end of it is just another. Something actually thought I get to experience little on afghanistan like that quick. So so eventually you get picked up for to be to go out with a british unit yeah. So at that point, It was, I believe, the beginning of june
you know when they started talking about it, it's just when I got notified about it, so it just came down the pipe that there were going to be an operation that they needed. Some now I understand cs: tease fora so females to go and get attached to the british units and they needed to be speak english to so. At that point my sergeant said no because he used to be infantry and he was like no, this is not a job I was trained, for this is not a job and prepared for this is not something she can do it because We were really luck again. I was really lucky when I went to val mark. Didn't really let us rests on like some people would get too like how that weakens off or ever like a day or so, but he would be like in a go: we're going to go work on shooting we're going to do level. Four we're going to do house cleric we're going to go, do a little more Then we need to be doing, but just a little more because we are going to war and he's been there and he's done it a few times. He understands like unexpected things.
if you know how to move and shoot better you're going to be better, and it's just going to be better for everyone. So he put the effort into us like the days off in texas. We were supposed to get we climbed a mountain because fuckin climate mountain. I guess so better be better go better! So we did everything we could to be the best. Soldiers. We could, when we deployed- and that's it The reason I didn't get killed was because he's like legitimately taught me how to shoot and move. He taught me to go in a house and move properly, so don't get myself killed. He taught me how to grab people. He taught me how to put people against the wall tommy zapped strap people like. If you can go and do that, but just extra shit I would have been a living nightmare. And that was who got my started such mark. The blonde he's an officer now so I I refuse to call him by that used for host sorbiere on a dog, his dark side so now you get. How far do
in an appointment, are you when you when, when they ask you go out and do this operation with the brits two months? Okay, so you're at least I made it to the heat and the heat and the weather the weather and then the the prayer and the the noises and like how the country how the country were meaning like within my father. I understood how the country worked. Mine by watching like this one family, compound here. I understood because we brought afghanis in two work for us who would build. You know the concrete pads and things like that, and then we had a situation with that. That was a hole that was a whole thing and and then being the the weak link, the woman there I got. That was the target for that one, so that one was fun and to be able to defuse the situation, because I was able to recognize a situation again, because I would somebody took extra time to make sure that I understood, and I wasn't an area so and then I got there
they said yeah you're, going like it's not really a choice at this point like I've tried to keep you here, but a cancer. The least we can do is like we'll go zero and cause you zero it when you get a country, but then it's been sitting not using at so we go. zero, the weapon and then he just strip tissue, seven and just fully tat. No one I didn't know how to use have to shit on. This thing and I dunno why we need to out of the way, but he's like well you're, going to need this you're gonna need this and then he end up stripping all his his his kit and gave me like his matches. Sure mags in all of these things and grenades, and I never carry grenades at this point. Like I edge throne, naw man like askew, but I'd, never carried them on my physical body that's a whole new level of weird and uncomfortable, and I just wasn't prepped, for that is just like tape over the spoons cause. That was, they made fun of me for that, but I felt safe and comfortable. So that was fine with me. I and then I got dropped off. So what happened was the Chinook the chinook came
I want to pick me up the one day cause. They were picking up people at different fops and they came up to get me and they took fire, so they turned around and went back So then there like, if they don't come to morrow, then you're not going to have to find someone else They need they're leaving on the state, and you need to be there a day before cause you need to go meet the rcmp. You need to be able to zap straps. You need to be able told what you're allowed to legally do and then kind of walk through that. You can't do that and you can't go so what happened? Was they they try to get the next day and they were able to pick me up so then I got picked up and I left and it's weird because I fully thought I'm going back to the moat everything else. Is there fully going back to that gun? I went back to that gun and being fully a week and then I was gone again, so I never. I never really stayed at that for much longer Do that, so they picked me up. They dropped me off calf and then they just brought me to the arcy mp, so the royal canadian mount please they'd do deployed. They do have people there that do deployed to do investigations on things like that, like military police,
as well, and so they brought me there in the handed me parameters, wear gloves and sums abstracts, and there like you know how to do the, but somebody duck position. I was now. Let us show you, how do you know how to like? If you have, if you had to take somebody down, can you do it and I was like yeah and they're like okay? Show me so, then they would show me other ways that, like you're, not supposed to put in this position and if you're gonna zap strap them. They have to be able to sit, they can't be can't tie your hands and feet. You can't put bags of that like just how to do it legally. So I will get myself in trouble and then I was just told my surgeon was like don't fuck it up. You don't have a boss, no one's going to tell you what to do. You're going to have to make judgement calls go and you're still nineteen years old. At this point and you link up with the breadth and then I went in and linked up at them. There are two different side of calf: they have their own the gates and deal and flag, and apple thing and do you are you there for like the mission briefing so that you know what's happening now,
so I got dropped off that night. So I never left school more just sad is a sad at this point. I got dropped off. And I walked in and I met a couple of the different higher ups. Remember exactly: it was at the time, but they just said you're gonna go with us were gone. You're gonna follow these p. Bull and we're gonna, leave it at a one hundred so go, Some rest. Whenever one gets right, you get ready, follow on those women and children. Then there are women and children, women and children you're going to take you get it. we don't often have women and children stay their normal for they know we're coming in, and this has been a planned out for a while. We know that the women and children relief we understand that they flee. Most of the time we don't often use it like I was straight up- told her. I was like okay well, this shouldn't be too bad, then, and at this point I don't give a shit. I get to get off the fob and I get to go. Do something so I'm super excited
so more than just to go. So We go, I couldn't sleep because their only people and I'm excited to go in. I show slapped didn't and then we all pile into a school bus and we drive out to the airfield and then that's when we got on the chinook. So we got split into different piles at all. Gonna go on shocks, and I that's when I met the the bomb dog that I was going to be near, which was benjy is a black lab and the guys that I was gonna be near to start with, but they said like we don't only use, you we need you we'll move you around. There's only one of you and there's three there's like it's like alpha. Bravo trucks! So we're going to move you around and that's how it's going to go and then I didn't read eyes. How much I was actually getting moved and I got shuffled like decker cards. It was ridiculous, and we got It- was a halo insert the: u s: ruin yeah, we flew in at night. I just know I was on the floor. I was on the floor and I was like wedged between p
bull and there's a guy sitting, not all my life but between my legs but enough where it's like. My legs were going numb, so I was like, but we were out there for like forty five minutes like a good, it was a good flight and then we landed, and I couldn't feel my legs at all- I can feel it stood up and my journal industry. You know you like that feeling, and you know both when I'm talking about you when you step off. something and you just start running, pulled the bottom half didn't didn't agree that we were gonna run and somebody grabbed the back the art on our vests in canada. We have like these, the mesh, but we have this handle just grabbed a hold of that and just fucking just dragging let's guy, who just some one of the mixed accents and just kick my ass, the door, and it was the most shocking to the system. I opening and overwhelming experience. I've never been put in a situation since, where I've been so disoriented is like pitch black, I had and nbg on that. I bear the trained with agro? So did you have
experience on night vision know when we first got to the There was no envy jeez in the tower, so we didn't have them, first couple hours of the shift and people get so much shit after your show last time, when the of course there are the what you talking about, there would never put people to tower then be Jeez. Do you know Canada, shut your mouth. We had no in regions where a little bed I'm ever having to call be like. Can we get some nd geez? This is a night. We can't see anything so I I didn't have very much training at all with it. So that's a trip right when you start trying to figure out your footing. things look like calls that might not be hold most stuff. We took time to get used to walking on nods for sure yeah. So and it's just the one right. We don't have like that there are both these sounds like you had a monocular, we ask, which is only one. We had those doubts that was. That was, I think I've been better with both, but I think that tripped me out. you know the story actually believe it or not?.
You you are actually blessed with the fact that you knew less about what was going on. If you would have known a little bit more, you would have been even more terrified. I know you know if you actually knew a little bit more you'd have been like what the hell is going on. This is like, luckily, you didn't quite you do just you like just at the surface of understanding. So that's probably a good thing. Otherwise it would have been even worse for you, you ve, been thinking, wait a second, I dont, even know where I am yet afghan: I stand right now. No, that's not good no and masse for poland's my mind, because I talked to a lot of people now. My show right and I interview a lot of high level. People like yours, have been lucky enough to have conversations weapon. They tell you. These are just that guy on the other day, who wrote the book a few bad men and he's like giving this operational overview of like everyone of the situation, this equipment we got? These are like just all these deep. hell, I'm just sitting there going. How like how
little. I know have you ever parachuted before I have your freefall before now. What I free up, but I was tandem m ochre, how many times only once a year. It's a really good example of, like the first time. Ever, do a freefall. What you notice and what you see is like really really small and then more, you do it, the better you get. and the more you see in the more you understand what happening. I just like its and then you get like be Andy stomp who has thousands of jobs in any like he's gonna, be way more aware than he was when he had deal for, you know. I remember my first jumps. You know I like the only thing I remember and it wasn't like I was panicking. I was I wasn't. I wasn't freaking out, but I was like okay altitude. Look record altitude. Look at my ripcord. Like look at my instructor. Look, my report. That's pretty it's what I notice that record altitude instruct
it just that's what I noticed and then, by the time you get to ten jumps you're like oh there's, like a cool mountain range over there it doesn't look cool from appear and, to see more and more, and you get we stand more morning. It's similar in combat, you know the more you do it, the more you're like. Ok, I understand what's happening and if you ve gone through rigorous training, even that, can allow you to be very open, minded and absorb a lot of information, and you have a lot of experience like having cod by the time I got shot at for the first time I was like oh cool like I was like. Thank you like this is fine like I I wasn't because done. So I dont have united schumann weapon at the enemy for the first thirteen years. I was in the symptoms and I done all this training you know from t ninety until two thousand three and that's a long time prepare for something and so for you, it's your nineteen years. Old you're artillery your with a different unit. Your wearing nods that you haven't really train with you here.
You're getting a helicopter with people. You don't really know like there's a lot of things that Did your first time are you out all those things up and it's definitely there's a lie. lacking and from their perspective, a little bit like I did ops with what we. The call straphangers, no offense, Steve you've heard that term before I have yeah so like you'd, be a strap hanger like I brought females that were straphangers and it's like you're. Not being migratory somebody I'd like a computer guy, the strap anger. I really so weird, if the straphangers and I've taken straphangers on where it's like. Okay, you give them two handlers like they're, gonna watch them they're, going to make sure everything's good to go they're going to get Did you their little job, whatever their little job is, and they no really put we would have been. The brief, like, I would say, like hey here's, where you're gonna be in the in the convent if he hears we can be on the target. Here's where I want you to sit. If anything goes bad. You go back to this vehicle. If you don't know which vehicle go got to go to
any humvee walk up to the driver and say like pay, I'm the strap hangar tell me where to go and they'll take care of you, so we had the minute, a minimum amount of planning to make sure which, by the way that came from a lesson from me where I did take some strap hangers out, didn't work out good and mistakes. God made that I should have been more attentive to, and I should have put more guidance in place, which I did after that. After that happened, but tat is so I can kind you see, someone I, oh you know we got this girl shall be enough. We need her will bring up. The fraud will break one. You know we don't expect to see a lot of females. And also what, happens, is they don't know what you don't know where they dont remember what you dont know. So if I was to go on a jump with Andy stuff right now, He be like I'd like. I just do this yeah expecting that to do when I'd like a dude. to do that, or are you not
Let me hey. We come in for landing just makes you do this, you know the lindy on the on the approach I'd be, and he thinks he would legitimately think I would know it and I'd be like hey dude automatic do triple triple indy. If I didn't say that or if I didn't notice say that or if I didn't have time to say that or weren't a freaking helicopter and he's like trap I'll, add that I'm, like so could be problematic. I'm just trying to I try and figure out. You know the situation that you worrying from like a mental per active and it's not good, like a golden retriever, is happy to be here. I'm happy to pierre yeah amounts. Cool when you're into a happy place. It's cool when you yeah, when it doesn't agenda being like where the grounds are filled with ideas and people. Don't like you, especially women, and they don't like women who have guns and they think that you're a little boy, that's taking their their daughters and their children into a room tat. They don't like you very much and you learn really quickly. If it didn't take me long to switch my brain on once
with the day we landed. We we sat in the dark until morning, prayer that was like that we're going to all hell's gonna break loose. That's when we're hitting a moving, so we are told like they're, going to go now so morning prayer happened and then a group went for it and breached that first compound, once that happened, I got called up right away right away and so Benjy who that's the dog, and his handler, and I went when right up to the house and it was already like everything in our power to calm down, but they had the women and kids over in one area, and I went in with my went on and I had a scarf on as well, because it was freezing which also no one tells you how cold it gets a night just Ask why I've ever deploying. Can someone tell someone what degree at night it becomes goes against fucking cool, so we're outside there? I would say the where, in the middle of night, I'm just shaking thinking just like wearing a tee shirt and my just button up kit with my plate,
it's in my vast I'm like. Oh, it's freezing, it's! It's fucking! Cold, so we, we went inside and they're kind of all huddle to the side and I had a big scarf over. So my hair was blonde at the time and my braid was tucked in you couldn't tell it. I was a woman from Adam, like eu. There was no way would know, and so when I went to grab the women and at this point I am pretty com and I'm pretty gentle sunlight come with me into the flesh not creepy, not pointing guns, just we're going, we're gonna go in here, I'm gonna surgeons going. We find there are looking away terrified and the. husband or the elder of the family. Free stuff. Look out cries, the gravel well. Do me like this and a bunch? The guys are point the gun to them and they start there. The interpreter comes and starts yelling. He thinks you're a boy thinks you're a man. He thinks romantic, her helmet off so and I was taught because at this point Trevor had already we had a canadian who had an ax put into his head and he is the reason why honour house exists. But long and short, he sat on the prayer circle, and this was back when the esa were different, took us
helmut off of respect tubing. There came up act in that he live here I've he lives on the island. Vancouver is amazing, but we we- I was told you never take your helmet off, so I'm kind look around like looking for someone to tell me what to do cause. That's what I've been trained to do and I'm like fuck, I'm barbarous up, take me home and often he comes down once he sees that I'm a woman, everything kind of chills out. Then I gonna do first experience of like searching people but the differences these people real rule right there not lag cabin educated, girls that are, you know these are no running water, the only men they ever sees like their elder. That's the word of god. They learn everything from them, and so there there mass in their terrified and crying the kids are crying and I'm not. I don't know what the hell I thought would happen, but it was like. I didn't expect, like the fear when you see that amount of fear and a small child dies. That's a good thing that sticks.
But you were and maybe now, because I have done so much. I can look at it this way, but like that That I was the thing of someone's nightmares. Makes me sad inside here. So that was a lot was a weird. There was a weird first exchanged and x, look at our lord. I expected right again I just b to be here, the right road? and then so you guys end up here in the field for a total. What five days think something along the lines I dont nothing blurred and its you're in malta, contacts, a a lot of contacts with the enemy azured moving from village the village do clearances, there's an incident where there's a big idea you of one soldier. get killed on other soldier, get really bad the wounded, that's it. nightmare total. Work through an
This whole time, you're, like you, said, you're gettin, shuffle around your move into the front. You move in a vacuum in back of the front year, I was never in the back. I was just moving to fry. I was moving affront to different different parts of villages, so is like never just like sitting waiting there, time. I ever like stop that we weren't infirmaries that night and then I got this. For a three hour trunk with the first night. That one was I remember, I slept enough. My sergeant gave me that, like it's, like you put it, happy or sleeping bag to protect her sleeping bag. Nobody saw yes, thank you, and so what I did I just one in private, So I got inside of it and title incredibly tight of a tight and then I put it up to meet them. Then I changed and that and then I slept in that, while my stuff dried cause, it was wet and, and so the No, the whole the whole time. I was there again, it's not like wars. Difficult, shits, not hard people don't die. Stuff doesn't happen, it was just weird situations. I was an awkward placements for meaning. Like
we were moving from one village to like one of the videos I sent you was the artillery going over. Top of us were what had happened at that point when we are moving from that village was when you the right hand, side of the video you can see. There was a the tree in the way of the sniper, some of the engineers came over and blew it up, so they could blow the tree or the way, ok, but while we are waiting for that. We were all starting to push forward once the sniper got in place. We were pushing forward along this there's like a mud wall when you step upside there's a mud wall, but for me it was like probably up to my shoulders right and so we're pushing forward and I'm going ahead with a couple of the guys. Like third, I'm? Third behind them. At this point we had been in some contact, and I had moved find enough where they just stuck me and with everyone else. They weren't like holder back then will bring forward. It was just like we finding women everywhere. She's just go from here to here to hear so moving forward with are the guys and dumb. We got close contact like close contact close as I've ever seen, never experiencing like that before and
It was to the point where we were taking rounds and one of the guys was like. We have to push push push push back, and I was like what you mean we we were what you'd run that way again and I was like okay. So what happens was he covered fire, and I ran- and I remembered I just remember this big hole in the ground- and I remember jumping over it- and it was one of those like slow motion moments because, like there was rounds coming down- and it was my first real like taking fuckin handling- can gunfire sweet. We retreated back an aid where it took the video from we're sitting in the ditch on the right hand, side and we were wave artillery to come down, and that was the first time They were calling rounds over top of us, and I was like thats close. like sure as sure as and that's when I could on the grounds of Alex? Oh, my god, cause he used to say to us in the training like you're the hand of god. I was like, I don't know what that means. Burma find out. found out and I loved it as soon as the first lanyard pull. I was like
that's an addiction, but sir that's a thing, what more that I want more of that. That's that's something special, that's like all the hair on your body raises in the ground moves and you're like what you just sent down ranges going to wreak havoc, make somebody of a real bad day, can imagine that there's anything better fern artillery person and to be in the field and see the impact of what it's like. Have artillery utilised yeah. You know for the for the folks on the ground for sure yeah it was cool just because power of it and so that That was all like one thinks I was my first kind of like experience so like actual like, hopping over my head around coming in second, one dollar goes again or just We are moving from like one vote to the next, and we pushing forward and stephen noble use. My platoon sergeant he was, he had pulled us back and shit
this into a compound of put some of us on the roof, because there girls screaming, heard screaming in the next compound ahead, so they put us the roof, I'm of the only people that dongle on the roof, the medic, the bomb dog and the cs tease we dont go on the routes. We don't do century at night on the roof, because only a few of us, so I got put on the roof which again. I am happy to be here, I'm happy to be shooting my rifle, I'm fuckin stoked due to do this. I get on the roof, we're taking rounds, we're shooting theirs beside me myself here and another guy here and so this night. They call them sharpshooters the british solution. sure that was with me jumps down off the roof to grab more ammo. He lies his rifle does the entire length of my body and I have a photo with me holding the rifle and the round. We pulled out of it and we three rounds. I come from the left side and smoke that but stalker his rifle and just just by the just covers my hip since the length of my body and we all get down
off the roof and we look and yet he's got like an aching around like in the bud stock, and so he duct tape it up and I said, can have on his fuckin chance. Unless it can, I take a picture of you just get absolutely so. I took a picture, I put it on my leg and it took a picture of, and then I touch it on my finger. So as there is situations and when the idea went off, I was in the group. We were waiting for that. Those two people to go clear, the road and so on the compound, on the right hand, side we had a group, a guy's, those back a little bit with a sniper on the roof, and then there was a mud like compound. But when I say compound, I'm talkin, like my walls, real rough raggedy, not fucking, a compound liquor, moral and were leaning with our backs up to and on the left hand side is I in a little ways away in great part, and then, if you go down the road a little to the right and you there's a catch and then this road that goes up to the great pot and then on the right hand, side of that road is just a whole open clearing
and so we were waiting for it to be cleared and there was we're just sitting still and everything was commenting was quiet. I com, chatter, nothing! Everything was per act and so we're just sitting there- and I remember I was looking over talking to but the guys and the ground flock in shock like. Something I and I remember, just whipping my head around and seeing the worst thing that I'll see for the rest of my life so that was a situation again that I shouldn't fuckin linen and should have been a part of but noble said you you and you go, and I dunno mean what what is go mean go run now, and so craig hardy. The medic that was with us is dealing with the first individual and what had happened is the blast. When often somebody the door and he took the brunt. The blast blew his kid often just wrecked him.
so we're dealing with that and then afterwards three of us, run down off of the road into the ditch and sprint towards the gray pet, and then we- to the road. That's rate adjacent to the great pot and they give the K one two three run so at this point, all hell is broken loose we're taking mortar rounds now we're taking we're taking small arms fire and things are getting out of control, and so what they did is the taliban used that moment too be in wait for everyone, a common and secondary just did you know what that looks like, so we get inside the great pot, and then I was with stephen noble and a couple of guys and that's the moment. I'd say often like my lights, which goes like this, which happens when I find out that there's this is what's left and your your cleaning up and were
running and we're moving, and so I just blacked out and did what I was told. I didn't think about what I was doing retouching your grabbing. I just did when I was fucking told and then in just after that I didn't feel anything anymore like there was not. Thing. I could feel there's nothing I can do about it. There is nothing that I could switch on or off it was just like. I was fucking gone The part of me was like see later wall and that with this just how worked and so once we finish tat. We all put everything we could under the stretcher and then I carried the two individuals helmets and one of them It falls and I slung my rifle and I carried his rifle and it was all twisted I'd, never seen anything like that happen to a weapon. I didn't, I obviously know they're malleable, but I'd never seen it in person and so the gravity The situation did not punch me in the face, though, until we got the stretcher back into that common that was down on the right hand, side of where I was sitting where the snipers where we went inside of their. Not that point: that's when the the petros the guy's came in the black hawk
and one came around and unleashed hell like those like many guns and just fuckin under I'm. I only heard that once when we were in wayne when they were shooting for top of us for the first time, but I had never heard a single, oh, my god, and so at that point they got everybody on the flights and they had taken off and then the fire had kind us dampened down, and that's the moment that, like Craig sat with me and he was the magic and he just kept asking me if I was ok, because at this point, excessively rubbing my hands like I didn't have my gloves on for that and so I had some stuff all over me and I just kept rubbing my hands really really aggressively like just trying to get it off cause. I really rub my kit and my kit was covered and had dirt on it. So I just keep around I mean it would just keep getting worse, and so I just kept setting there and I sat on the ground and I remember it because there was a inside. There there was like not a room,
I cut out the other guys were sitting over there and they're. All kind of bunch of them are sitting a circle and they're all smoking, and I was like I want a cigarette and they're like you're, not starting not like we're not giving you a cigarette like this is not how this is gonna work and that he, it'd, be like hand sanitizer or like some type of something and like just just like just wipe it off. Just like it's cool swipe it off like this, isn't his first deployment like this is this guy is a hardened medic. He had it done, time other places and so see that I was not coping and something it was off really really fast and none a point. It was like within fifteen minutes, they're up. We go bush on, that's it and I don't know what to do with that. furthermore, was unknown to do it that I like the thing that got me as like all These guys, like, of course you can, then wallow in it. But what the fuck are you supposed to do with that and
it's funny, because since our last conversation I've talked about you on a few shows, because somebody quite a few people asked me about the story, and I talked about it in length on my podcast with danny ventre, who is friends with one of the guys that we lost, and then I talked about it with one of the family members- and I said, can I talk about this? Is that the reason we would talk about? It is because just keeps us their names life and I was like okay, so danny, and I talked about one of the situations, and he said you know when you handle that like. How do you think do you think it could have been better? Do you think it could have been different? Do you think you could have you know anything and I said it's funny that you say that cause when you asked me last time I was here like you, ask me, Clearly this is stuck with me. I was like. If somebody would say you down and said: hey willie, feeling as normal. What your experience as normal how you reacting is normal. This is ok you're gonna get through this and so
of slapping medication on top of it and then having to exit country and then eventually exit military. Do you think you would have been ok yeah? I fuckin think I would have been ok, but I think at the time our lead ship, didn't know how to deal with mental health. It was el too early and Canada's involvement in two thousand and nine and our staff. Like my sergeant, tells me this day. I didn't know what to do with you. I don't know how to help you. I don't know what you were going through, because I had never been through an experience. like that. So if the leaders I'm going to have never experienced it and I'm glad that they never had to experience, because no one should have to experience that, but war is war and that's what happens as the reality. So if he didn't know how to help me, how? How am I supposed to get help like I didn't? Have anyone to be like hey? This is normal. This is ok, so, You know that that that that was the moment that was when they, when they, when you look at night,
the paperwork and like the stuff from veterans affairs, like that's the fuckin check in the box for them where they're like gap. That's where that that idea, situation, that body clarence that whole thing. That was the moment the rest. The obvious went fucking downhill from there yeah that conversation, we had last time you are on and because the whole time you know I was sitting there kind of like I'm doing today, of like just pointing out the fact that you are young. You are not trained for this. You are aware of what was happening. overall in the big picture, you get like a five minute brief about what you're gonna go, do there's a lot and then your follow on to a traumatic situation is like ok, cool. clean your hands. We work on the next village and although and then when you get down and will get into that, but yes I had a connection at some point, In my life, where you I get these days
when I was may fires and then fighters they would be very confident and then they would go to the fight and they get like us actually, quite frankly, and the u have see when it's a! U have see, and it doesn't matter do want your shows amateur shows you been wrestling your life, whatever you ve, been in, it's your your What you're doing yours, you dont get nervous, you'll get nervous anymore after guy has rest his whole life are boxed his whole life and now he's going to go. They don't get nervous before a fight. You know of a in Egypt, wrestler doesn't get nervous before a wrestling match like they get over it, okay and maybe they get a little bit nervous, but they get over it. and all the sun they show up at. You have sea and its Your thing initiative, a name for it. They call it something like you, you have seen generous or something like that and when I realized is, if they know what it was baby Oh there's, something wrong with me and its. Point I said to myself all the same thing happens and combat the same thing happens before combat Same thing happens after a combat o before
but you're nervous, and it's ok, that your nerves, ok, that your six, your stomach, it's ok, that europe will not sick, but your stomach is in knots. It's ok that you're, you you may be even like I've. Guy shivering, like their shivering, they're scared, innocent, like if you got payment, it's all good you're supposed to feel that way. It's your body getting ready for combat, don't worry about it! It's fine and they go okay. The same thing before they get the caves amen. What you feel now, as you being prepared for, combat and thing on the other side of like oh here. You have some uncontrollable emotion cause you lost when your friends yet thus only normal, like payment I've lost a bunch of friends and it's like oh yeah, sometimes I'll just start crying yeah. Oh, that's! That's that, and it's not like. I don't. I don't think to myself. Hey I had to hurt up. You know I would like the cliche is like I heard a song, but actually I don't like yourself, but maybe there's be a picture on looking out yet or I'll, read something and Look I'll read: oh all the males, that's a real frequency!
move on a friggin saturday afternoon, but you do that and you can be like. Oh ok, oh now, I'm sitting alone and of crime. But for me like that's totally normal, that's what you do and it's ok and I dont think that, that message gets to people to say: oh yeah, you lost some of your friends and you're twenty three nineteen or twenty seven or thirty. Two years old and you're gonna be bombed out about that, and there can be some uncontrollable emotions that you grown person are not used to cause. There's nothing you! Oh! you get mad at the supermarket cause. The line was long or you get mad because your computer printer didn't work or get sad because you watch the movie, but that's all different compared to oh, I lost one of my really good friends and it different kind of emotion that I'm not used to so what they should. We think it is like. Oh that's normal. I'm sorry, that I lost some of my friends and instead
what they think is I'm sad. Its uncontrolled work must be something wrong with me and that becomes I I think that becomes the beginning of a problem like what are no one says that no one says oh yeah, you should be you you're you're correct, oh yeah! You uncontrollably cried like yesterday afternoon, while you were sitting in your room by yourself. Yeah, okay, now that's you last one we're good friends, that's going to happen yeah. I do that when I hear dane cook when I hear dane cook, I think of Chris Gould, I think about our friendship and I think about that and like the fun like listening to that and doing laundry and talking about stupid things, I think I hear that and I'm like I was going to cry like I did that I did that on. I was memorial day. I was out for a run and I was listening to something and it popped On- and I came around, Brady was in the cul de sac, with our neighbour whose ex firefighter came round the called a second, I'm just scream and I'm angry and I'm bawling my eyes under what's wrong number,
What was that, like, I just ate, fuckin punches you and it's like feel it accepted Senate sit in it and but you then have to move through it that's the differences. You can't hold onto it, the anger and sadness. It's ok to feel it is necessary to feel it. But we don't teach anyone that it's important to feel it watch nuts fights find some nothing's wrong, nothing's wrong who's that helping you need to feel it or it's going to sit in you and it's going to hurt you long term. You have to move through that shit, but I was never taught that and that's why I said like when I've been interviewed sense. It's that's been a question is like shooting it de on different. As a first thing, I say, every time is jock last me this question and I think it illustrates exactly what went wrong and why in a really small sentence, because No one pulled me aside and set that, and it was really no one's job to either right. I wasn't
I to be here was- was a habit like all these things happen like these were all things that happen in war, but situations just went wrong. It just was worse than they thought it would be. I mean it's not that I think they wouldn't have brought me, but it just was worse yeah and then you get done with this gap and instead of- compressing with these guys and unknowingly venting in unknowingly, like processing all these emotions. You and I will then be like hey everyone to get together. We're gonna rehash and let our emotions and go through our since which guys do that without not like a plan is just like. Oh, were freaking on stories, guys like ok, so your crying you're laughing your crying and you're processing all those things that pre normal very normal for that to happen, but you didn't do that. With these
us no and that I have found out since a friend of mine, Jaclyn Scott, her name nicknames jack's. She was a siesta. Issues of war and offs are special operations and she's been downright and died center. When I told her my story, she was like oh yeah, that that happened to me. You go and you get attached to these people, but the cs t's like so. I just did this Jax act that protects, gets mental health, help for cs he's, but that wasn't happening for all a g. What's so it's like, if you were a c s t you were right away from the unit you were just with and then dropped back to wherever you are two people who don't understand we just went through frankly, my guys didn't want to fuck and hear about it. They were pissed off that I got to go in the first place, so coming back and then having that conversation was, and for golly. I was silent when I got back so that's that if you know me that's a problem, if I'm, I can't really mortimer you'll never have to how's that the so there was
this idea that you're just dropped. so when you have no one to talk to people that don't understand, haven't been there or didn't experience that don't believe you, the fuck. Are you supposed to do with that? You stop sleeping carrots and I would pace of the boardwalk. I would go down the boardwalk where the tim hortons is and where there's a bunch of like ridiculous restaurants in afghanistan, and I would pay his and I would just walk and I would stay awake and then Benji is a handler and Benji would hang out with me and then one of the other brits would come around and they would kind of swap off. Some of the guys were coming out with me that I was with during that whole situation. They would come and hang out with me at night and stuff like that cause. I think it was like the green bean or the that other coffee shop was open late. So I get tee and I would walker and pace so now, not sleeping, but I'm not having during the day there. So now, real irritable now am I getting irritable but certain have issues with loud noises and like unexpected bags, and all of these things now
crying in the shower on the floor. This is good and it gets to a point where I can almost talk about it like a separate person. Now the feels compared to like they two years ago, when I was here, verses at where I am like just the amount of work I've done since it's like. I can almost talk about it to a point where I don't fucking feel hysterical. It's like. I can see it from an outside perspective. It's like god damn it there's so much wrong. There what's wrong and no one caught on to no one paid attention to and as I did catch on to it, it was from like an authoritarian like you're in trouble. Now situation like I, I end up getting put at the qm, so the quarter masters which again even if you didn't deploy, even if you did deploy- and you were in the clerks error- you were mailing us, sir. You were getting us ammunition, you're part of the team, but when you go to the, while in the quarter master, whose worn officer who has set foot out of calf looks a you and your ponytail.
hi where's your where's, your full magazine, the response gonna be like oh, I should die. It's no big deal. Blah blah blah blah blah there's going to be like go fuck yourself, you've been sitting at this caf, you don't do anything but drink coffee and eat. Fucking tim hortons and you want to bitch at me, but my ponytail right now after two days ago, was up some dude body pieces get the fuck outta my face, like the response is not. Owing to be met. Equally it's going to be intense and over, like I hadn't slept, these are problems that are going to come out. We recognise that of the problem and said we go to punish. we're just gonna make her count pence from a leadership perspective. You take that individual and you're, like hey dude. I got a job for you over here you're going to come over here and you're. Gonna hang out with me and everything's gonna be cool, I'm not going to get any trump and it's going to be all good yeah and we're going to debrief some stuff and you protect your people to make sure that they're not getting exposed to that
I of you know authoritarian behaviour which their knock and respond well to its very difficult to respond well in the situations because everyone and it comes out of it like I literally dont care, no, and so you dont have any authority over me and I'm gonna do whatever. I want you gotta. Let them work through that, otherwise you gotta, but you gotta, keep them basically but separating and let them decompress a little bit so that they can yet that out of the system and they can come back to normal. You know this case. You know garrison life because you can't can be given be difficult for people to go from in the field to garrison without having issues, so it's really the responsibility of leadership to go up. Yeah, I got kelsey yup she's good she's, going to be she's with me. She's gonna be with me, for I got a special assignment for just cause, she's working on some stuff with me and I'd be like hey kelsey. Can you have next couple of days? We gotta practice.
he frightened you help me with it and you'd. Be a conflict you another guy. I know I know you want to, but call here put it together, and you know right all good and I've done that People, don't you know what, then that would be a lot of people were to come. You know they paid enough, he was we got home from deployment he went, he got pulled out. this petunias yet her shoulders. They put him as above instructor that wasn't a good move. I was not a good move and so yeah, and so after a very short period of time. I got the word and I was kept. You come here for me and a problem. You know and then then it's good, because we are not Exposing too stupid stuff and ok, no offence of people that do stupid stuff in the military are they get? You know and also like that, whoever that guy is whoever these people are either they don't it's unfortunate oftentimes. You should. he to hey. If I see someone is not doing the right thing, my defaults, the what's wrong. What's going on, I mean they form it in an innate
senior, leona leadership position and I dont know you and I walking across base, and I see you and I'm like hey your point, a little bit out a hand and you go. I fuck off I wouldn't be like coming to punish you I'd, be like hey, hey what what are you? Are you how long you and how long you get the space for? Is everything cool like I wouldn't be? attack boat. I turn for ya: What's going on, because people that's not normal? Acting, it doesn't take an anybody no one. The military's walking around telling people to fuck off doesn't happen. So when it weapons, some there's that's like for lack of a better word, it's a huge cry for help, or at least a serious indication that you're gonna need some assistance right and so that's it's horrible to hear that it's horrible to hear that and again we gotta do a better job inside the military of like teaching
people how to lead and set a peep teaching people how to be authoritarian idiots because x ray cause slip into that and it doesnt tit. It's not hard. It's not hard to see it too. I think a lot of these signs are really simple. When people know what they're looking for, unfortunately, at the time that I was their number one. These guys most them are french. So when I would speak swimming english, they like, if there was a I like worn officer or like someone above like that was not you speak french, like you, speak french law because they don't speak English and then so then they get frustrated and angry at you. If you're, not you no sign of it what happens shit like that would happen and then- and we, like all your magazines empty, and I billig. Used all the rounds like what fuck and you would get you would get written up for that and then I remember one time I got set when I finally got to go back to my fob and at that point they had put me on a laundry list of medications and didn't tell my staff, so they,
me on drugs heavy drugs. For sleep and all these other things and like fast acting stuff, and then they sent me back to the farm but didn't tell staff, so my sergeant sergeant loblaw had no idea what was going on in Finally, at one point you know I would just gonna walk unlike like a zombie, have a go. Do my work out said my rhine. I go to the tower staff, who was just very like slow, moving kind of quiet than did talk to any at one point my sword and sat down, and it was like If you want do you want to be part of these these this group, you need to participate. remember just being like. I don't fuck like I just you don't owe me like these guys were already pissed off. I went got to go and do so The thing that they wanted to go do they were bored we weren't shooting at the time like I understand it like I get it. You're you're on a fob day in day out that can get rapid, like the repetition and, like you, you're going to war, so like you're supposed to be fuckin phone-
doing and like when you're, not it's, it's gets boring and I get it. But I'd come back and at this point You know some of the sum of the stories of what had happened had kind of said word around and then like one of the girls I knew was like don't fucking talk about that, like people think you're crazy. No one believes that, like no one believes you- and I was like awesome I like, went back and he was like you know. If you want to, you know, be a product you gotta like you, need to try and be part of the group. You know this whole thing and he was trying and that night we end up. Shooting was like it's early morning and we were doing rounds downrange and I mean like normally. We would pop like a couple of bop bop bop bop ba, and then we would stop for a bit. We would do another fire mission, but at this point we were like oh oh bomb and we were just cranking and out about ten rounds cause I had they give me the sleep one put on your tongue that dissolves really fast fast, acting I'd taken that I've told you take at this point in my life So you take your medication when you're too both to dig your medication and out
so I'm not even waking up to this and our tents were beside the triple seventh. this feeling the vibration and I'm just like. Ok, no one's company, Let me know saying, like I didn't hear fire mission. I should know we're going down, so I finally got up and went out there and there can rounds on an hour, kraken mortars, and they pull me over the mortar and they give me around there like, let's go in like so with our some sardes yelling at me in french, and I remember, freezing with the mortar and just going like freezing like that's good isn't that balance. Let's go says yelling mainly unlike I was so fuckin out of it. That about so my father for the mortar, like oyster bawling, my eyes so annoyed him. What was going on like and my start suddenly he said we were looking for you. We went up to the gdp without huron. Jd may be like the guy come running to the guns, always one of the first ones there. I like certain positions, so if you get there first, you can put it so you know, but I didn't
and then I remember I pulled him inside the tent and it's funny. We talked about this and he says to me all the time and I think he feels really guilty, and maybe like he. I remember the moment. You lined up your pills and he shot him to me. He was ass, see burns far and I said yeah a ban on these since I got back and he just you could see like this is not good or ok. We have to do something about this like right now and The tower situation happened where the round, and it was a kid and I didn't pull the trigger and it was a whole situation because I thought- was waving when she was waving. She was the button was so after what happened with idee my tone changed. My empathy was
on my ability to see afghanis as human beings was fucking over like I didn't care. If you were a kid care, if you are a woman or you're a taliban member and in fact, like you- and I want to see your face, don't fuckin look at me. Don't talk to me, don't try to fuckin grab at me. I was forceful, I was violent and I was angry so like one happened- and I went down at the time and I told them there are like your gear. You gotta go back to catholic. This is a problem and they had worded it to me like door you're coming back. Don't worry, we'll see you soon like. Don't take all your stuff just take what you need just take, what you need and then I went back the calf, and yeah. That was the lasts. That was the last time I saw that fob those last time. I ran a triple seven, that was the last time I saw everyone except my sergeant and
saw him by chance when he was going on as HIV. So his break. I was at calf when he the woods was rotating up to go on holiday, you saw me- and I remember it so clearly- he was in a truck. He was on the passenger side. He was jumping in the truck and he's like you got a fucking, give me something give me something what is going on with you. You need to give me something to talk to me. Talk to me, I was like I don't know. I have nothing, I'm not feeling good and then that's when them. You may see the doctor more often, and then I went on my hiv, so they sent me out a country on holiday to end up going. I was made him a moment, the dominican, and so I went through dubai, he throwed toronto dominican and I was out of, I mines on these psychiatric mad sleep anti anxiety, antidepressant meds, and they don't tell
you really like what you can take, whether what you can't or are don't really tell. no really say like don't drink alcohol or alike. Body only heard that all really give you briefing as they leave a go. and then I was in the Dominican for almost three weeks and was just my mom did no to deal with me how to deal with me what the fuck was with me. It was there'd, be loud noises. I would crouch down and start screaming at the top of my lungs. While we were gone, we had lost some more canadians that I had done training with out of that revenge dos. So it was like. I just need to get back. I need to get back. I need to get back. I dunno the fuck. I thought I was going to do, but I needed to get back so once I did get back into the country. They brought me back the calf and then they kept bringing me to the doctors, and now I had standing appointments, where they were assessing me and that's when they, sesame and country and diagnose me in country, so do that at that point that triggered the system to send me home. So I end up going home. I think it was like, but three weeks before everyone else went home from my country, and I never saw anyone again
I didn't see the brits, I didn't see the canadians and I didn't see the americans again. I it was super solid, felt felt useful, felt like it was tools and my toolbox. What did they tell you there like? Ok, we're sending you home early. What's their reason, they end up dead. Me diagnosed me at the time it was acute. Ptsd so was in a severe scale, they're hoping it was acute, meaning like we'll work through it, it'll get better it'll go away, and so they they just said, you're going home and you're going to go to rip works too, that gets a you're going to meet with the rsm, and your awesome is going to give you your papers and you're going to go to the hospital in ottawa cause that's where they want to send the if the closest spot of where your family is for support and might the closest spot, was where I swore in which was ottawa, which was about just under three hours from my parents. So I was the closest they could get me
so did you go back? There is like an impatient know at first it was outpatient and they kept me Originally they were because they don't do a lot impatient and a lot of places. So they put me as outpatients. I went to the some first I flew in to combat like middle of the night. To I am empty airport, no fucking clue how to get to and from so called officer. I knew well come up as they would. You can pick me up, and so he took me to get a coffee and then I went back to the regiment. And had waited the regiment, because the housing that I was staying in was on the bay and they were renovating at all. So I know where to go so went to the regiment. I got there in the region a memo uniform and my boots that are still fuckin, held together with duct tape in blood. Over them and went up to our sums office and he handed me a piece of paper and he said you're goin to ottawa, and that was it an rate before I left afghanistan. My major sat me down took all of the medical checks
that they had been doing while I was there threw them at me and told me that it would be better. If I just died, it would have been less paperwork. Now. I'd have come to find out that piece of shit has been kicked out of the military for sexual assault like on by seven different women. So it's like karma sucks when you're that person, or it's kind of good or it's of fantastic, but I'm trying to be kind to others that that same people believe it's a native american tank. Can you saying that you have to say indigenous for canadians do and it's
The diagnosis is a curse. Right, like you get diagnosed with something it's a curse and and then the other thing is we did a podcast. We have another podcast called the underground podcast and we we talked about this experiment, and I I I I need to memorize these details, but basically they took kids kids that had a little bit of a speaking impediment a little bit like a little bit of a stutter. seventy years old and they said hey, this is really bad and it's gonna get a lot worse. It's gonna be a problem in your life and sure enough, all their freakin stutters got way worse. They took it that had a bit of a star and they said earlier. This is normal. It's no big deal, you're you'll grow out of it. They all good out of it. They took kids that had no stutter and said the way you talk index so you do. You have a tendency to start stuttering and you need to pay attention that and they developed stutters, and this is
This was in africa. I the years was like maybe the thirties Something like that. I can't do that now and they called they call it. The monster experiment because it was monstrous what they do These kids ended up suing in. but you know, isn't it interesting? You know, even if just to say, like oh yeah, calcium, how you feel like really bad right now. That's for sure that's normal and sexual you'll get you process through over time and you'll be ok and guess what everybody ass people die: people, europe, everyone's parents dies everyone's grandpa. Sties its normal, and we deal with death and you yeah. That's what you're feeling your film it a lot more right now, because most people don't have to deal with people that their age dying. it's sort of a war thing. Occasionally it's a drunk driving thing. Occasionally it's a, we know it does happen, but you feel We bad right now. That's what that's why everybody feels and that what you feel is normal and overtime. It's gonna be it's gonna get better how many people.
I have had region to me did upon gas, and I was talking about overcoming grief and I did a big thing. It was very dramatic. No one shocks very dramatic, but you know I bet we described when, when you lose someone you get hit with waves of emotion that you can't control and they're gonna be back and it's gonna be a storm and it's gonna feel like you're, never gonna get out, that's the way it feels, and we feel worked out because, where, as we grow up, we get control of our emotions and all of a sudden we don't need to. We can push through things were all of a sudden you get hit with emotions. You can't control boom, it's a wave, it's a storm, you think it's never going to end. Well, it does it and then, when it that kind of dissipates a little bit yours, gonna get hit with more waves. You're still me hit with other storms, they're not gonna, be his bad. There in overtime, they're, going to become less and less frequent. Sometimes people feel guilty they think we, I was so horrible
can it now and not in what there's something wrong with it: not enough you're, just processing the information. So I think it's terrible as I'm hearing you, talk about this. It's like the curse of a diagnosis of being, like oh, you have something wrong with you when should be like oh yeah you're, experiencing when everybody experiences that goes into combat and loses people yet that's normal. Yet here there is often a normal box and here's what's gonna happen over the next six months to a year might even be eighteen months, the horrible feelings that you're feeling right now are going dissipate overtime, that's normal If sometimes it feels like they're, not gonna, despite its ok, the harder they hit you more they're gonna dissipate. So it's gonna be ok, you're gonna work through it you're going be. Ok! We all we all that have been in combat loss people we ve all been through it. You're gonna be good to go like that. Be such a nice thing to understand it
mazes how much rewiring has to be done to individuals after deployments if they are not held in that boxes, that hey this is normal. This is good. I've seen it now in some of this I do in the work that I do after did your show. I got inundated with people who just needed help after we talked about the psychedelic, in ways that I was starting to heal and things like that. Just the amount of people that were like that hurt me to hear so much because I heard myself in you and once Have you not having that conversation its it made so much common sense like this is the to reviving the amount of work that has to be done all because of really terrible, uneducated leaders and nothing more than that, nothing more than people who just didn't know any better or did know any better and didn't care enough to put more effort into their people so that they could end up coming out of this debate,
people I've been medically released in the military that have lost their jobs because they were given it. diagnosis, and this is something I last week. One of my lectures, I was learning I'm doing integration coaching, like I'm doing a program, so I can work with heroic hearts to help with other veterans and the one of the lessons was on particular, was on this kind of topic about things like twelve step, an air and how it's like the conversation, is once an attic, always inadequate will know. No, no, no, no, no, that's putting somebody in a box to say is your diagnosis. This is who you are for life, not true at all. You can learn You can hear you can grow from these things. Let you do not have to stay in that box, but were told so often that that boxes where were held and that in order to through that, you have to stay in the box and you can't really push to far outside of it, because while we don't wanna without wanting, Relapse early warning want a to struggle. It's like you have.
To see yourself outside of thy diagnosis or you will live and eat, and sleep and breathe that diagnosis. That's just the way it works. How you talk to them in the bodies, how the money but you're going to respond to you. Should we keep saying I'm so, and so I appeal to you, I'm so, and so I have a tv I, your here, ring that and not is being reinforced in your wiring. That's why things like? Why are you so assignment? It changes the wiring change up the tone. So then you can start thinking Firstly, so that the new pathways can be formed, I'm not kelsey, and I I got injured in Afghanistan, I ptsd I'm, I'm kelsey. I deployed afghanistan. I served. I came out with pity ass and I'm doing pretty. Fuckin awesome like it doesn't have to be breathing, it doesn't have to be your whole life, but we have to stop This you are that notice, cause it's really what's holding people back and is really what's honestly killing people long term.
so you get home and you get did you eventually going to impatient now So I kept you now persia, but I had to go at multiple days a week so like to it is a weak I set out to get on the bus go down to the ottawa hospital, which has also s leading paid, active duty, liquor you still or in the army. At this point, the air in the army and you're only job is just too like games. two guests were scattered together, but it at this point, though, there was a gap So when I went to Ottawa verses, when someone called me was a six month gap, but we are doing in the six months stuff, just despite like not being a soldier traveling annual spending, all the money spending the money now going on you that doesn't seem like a verse court we system it wasn't a squared away system, a lot of people since then have been like there's no way. No one called euro, unlike our,
There is largely version and when they did find call the conversation was cosette doctors, I was seeing, but it was not. There were not military doctors right there like social workers and those types of people who are just following up on paperwork making. Sure there medication is being dough stout and not. You know, lama. Why? So? there wasn't accountability with them. I'm like you're, not authority to me, or you still take the drugs that there were like. What's the major drug data are giving you, I don't know a lot about drugs. I I wish I actually have the list because I just recently had to my t v. I diagnosis just got turned bomb by veterans affairs because they said it was not service related so I am having to fight it, so I actually saw for the first time the laundry list of medication written out that I was on and it was like clause a pan and zoloft and purkis. I was like it was just now Steve. Heavy contrary indicated type of drugs is like numbs, your brain. Oh my god. It flatland me Andy S, view that less, because what what
I like to be an assessor. I've never been on SSR. I was like if you take somebody's, you know the heartbeat, the e k g and all this and just flatline it. Thing emotions happiness, agnes sex drive like unbelief mobile amounts have just numb nothing. They may happen. Nothing may be sad, nothing retired. Nothing made me awake. I was always kind of groggy. I was just going to hum and the law, chemical libitum. You have sorted felt that way, because I had so many hundred different drugs, though right and so now I understand like cert, some of those drugs should not have been taken in conjunction with other, like I didn't know that, though- and that just goes to the conversation between the doctors and where were the gaps right who was talking to who, whose prescribing what so anyway, I had a gap there when they did finally call they said: hey we're going to try and retrain you, meaning
going to post you to a unit in ottawa, you're, going to go to half days a week, tuesday mornings and thursday mornings and you're going to work those hours. We're gonna, give this a go and so I went to cannot range, which is in ottawa, which were what the hell worse with our gnp, one of the largest commonwealth ranges around its massive massive do everything I said we did there. We do all the types of training people say that don't happen there. Just cause you don't know is not. Having does mean does not happen in their case We do all different types of things and so the whole thing was work the radio's. So when somebody calling to make the range go hot. I would just random through the speech, and then you arrange hot and the have a go clear. The range, and now we also attached to a protected wildlife, kindness sanctuary, so we haven't got a little hovercraft and we had like we would out, and we would see people were fishing that weren't supposed to fashion. We had a couple big birds sure that dating fuckin electrocute themselves, one did it was egoists. Yes, I do
move around. It was menial task, nothing exciting, but there was a situation where. Finally, I was I was starting to kind of get into a flop. Things there The situation, though, where I went to clear arrange- and I was one step on the sand and it just reverted backwards- fuckin fast and I just dropped and they're like nah you're done, this isn't going well for anyone to answer them. They decide to discharge you from your me yeah. So at that point then they brought me here went to like the board the medical board and they started to look out like could doctors, payments, medication, retraining, how's everything kind of going and then because at that point I had signed a second contract. So on my fourth year, and so there like are, we should go stay? Are I think her what's happening and then they decided they were going to give me a three b medical release. So an honourable discharge, but a three b med release, so full medleys for the diagnosis of post, traumatic stress, and then what you're next move so now, you're out of the army you're still getting a paycheck. I was still getting a paycheck.
and then what had happened was I got the and so I tried not to leave. I tried to stay a centre post me to where I want to be and I'll all do what you want and don't work reserve unit. I just I don't want to leave and they said it's there. I remember the social order. We like you're, not gonna work again, like you're done, like you're, not gonna, work ever again and at this point I was dating Brady, whose now my husband and he lived in british columbia. So I got release on it one third of may and I was on a plane on the twenty fourth and then I went up to british columbia and then I'd I've been there ever since and then point I had was you're gonna, get a doctor out in british columbia. and then I was switched over to the operational stress injury clinic, who I end up. In doktor mark and doktor gregg patsy, whose now doktor passees still my doktor to this day
and then we just worked really really diligently really hard and those were the really dark years. Those were the years where, like the suicide, was every day the thoughts of it every day, the planning of it where every day and I was numb- and it's super fucked up- and I would I was riding mountain bikes and we were doing all these other. Like you know, things stay busy, and life was good like I had a good life and- and it looked good on the outside, but I just wanted to die every day and that's hard to explain the people when you're twenty one years old and like you have everything and you get to live in, mason province, and you have a you know, a great boy for and everything's going awesome and you get to go to whistler and do this and do that and it's like yeah, but I still want to fucking die every day I dont want to, my bed every day I fucking hate everyone and anybody who looks like the middle eastern. I I'm terrified of like to the point where like I'm, a dog who's been abused by the more you come near me. I'm gonna snap like it's like I'm fearful
I'll. Do it I'm around that, like idle, I can't be pulled over by a cop looks brown or I'm gonna like I had my doctors number on speed, dial cause. I used to drive to his office to vancouver ripe and I live on the border. So I used to drive the forty five minutes all the way downtown, but there's a stretch on the free way and it there's always. Traffic lay dead, stop traffic, but its rape aside to muslim schools, one for girls and one for boys, and I would always get stuck in the spot and it would I would home from a treatment and it would just fuckin send me into a rage said always, down into the hiv lane and tell my doctor, I'm always going and hiv live. If I get pulled over, I'm calling you I'm going to call you because this cop is not white or black and he looks and he's gonna like a term anything. I'm fucking calling you and I'm not rolling the window down, because it was to the point where I was legitimately that reactive, male middle
Eastern man fuck. Spun me out. Are you? Are you on a so yeah- I'm on all these drugs until I didn't stop going I didn't start to slow down on these drugs until rate before we had my son? But what does your doctor say when you call and save like that seems to me to be very alarming. If you're calling me up and say like if I get pulled over by someone- that's not white or black, I'm gonna go crazy. I panic I'd legitimately. Panicked. So what does your doctor say when you told him that he goes I'm here? I'm here? If you need which deal with it, one at a time of deal with it as we go and they never happens when you say you're working through stuff like what is that actually mean like when you sit down with your doctor. I've never talk to any kind of like a person like this before so I dont know like what are you doing so? First here, obviously you'd review the file of when he got me and then he would just me down and he would he'd like the first. I met him as with mock too, and I remember it my whole body just
fuck and I sweat so bad. I was soaked by the end of the conversation and he'd be like run me through what happened. So we would do exposure therapy. We would do a m d r. We do traditional talk therapy. We would The medication we would do have you know physical fitness was a big part of the therapy making sure I was staying up on that and then it it got to the point where it was like we're just going to work on exposure therapy. So I live in a province where there's a huge population of people from overseas we have a ton of immigration in canada, and we see it's in particular ripe, and so there is an area called surrey. I would not go. I would not go no chance. Ludwig. because, like certain areas, headscarves, traditional garlic, nothing, nothing wrong with that, but I wasn't ready for that interaction to happen. So just one
go there, and then I had a situation because at this point there are like we're going to also send you back to school, so they send me back to school and I went to school. That was pretty only a lot of these people, who I wasn't quite ready to be in a room with an dan. there was a bunch of school shootings that happened in america so that now the college's were like we're going to do active, shooter, drills and not tell the students when we're doing them and that didn't fly with me real well and they attempted to do one, and I I like I was gone. I was like if that ever happens again, I need to know and they're like well, we can't tell you when I was like than I'm not responsible. If you come near me as a pretend person for how I react, once they we start to have a conversation with a college. I end up leaving my degree like three crept. Three credits short cause like I couldn't do it anymore
are you seeing any progress as you're going to like counselling it it? It would do that and nazi other thing, I'm really wanted state before us This healing is not linear at all, doesn't mean because you start a day, you're going to get to z, and it's going to do the straight line. Very often it's this. My experience with counseling is good. Will hunting this movie Charles desert, robin Williams and matt Damon, doing therapy Alright, you look a lot like Matt Damon, the young pictures of Matt Damon, his factual. Actually, I actually pull up a picture and x it's pretty obvious, and actually I have a. I have a friend, that's pretty good friends with matt Damon and I like forwarded it to him. I go to check this out and he showed him. He showed me the little text back
couldn't they were laughing about it? So yes there's some some, but is that what therapies kind of like? Like don't know, I mean I, my listen, my is an old school old school is a bad. Do he said in bosnia, rwanda. He does not fuck ground, it doesn't take, I'm not feeling Well, today, no more give that's bullshit, let's try again like from good will hunting robin Williams was in nam allegedly, right now, allegedly, he wasn't taken any shit out. I mean that's, not their policy like How do I hadn't sometimes really fancy boots just depends on this day Well, he yeah. We did a lot of exposure therapy so when he would be like it's like I'm waiting to go sit in a mall or something to sit in the food court. Tell me how you feel see how long you have a snack. The students take
it's like. If you were saying this kind of stuff to me, I'd be like cool I'm going to handcuff you and them all with your hands behind your back and I'll expose you like that. So but we try that shit seriously and then, when I was at the college, I was coming home one day I was coming back from new west and I was driving down the road and a car cut me off right before I got onto the Alex fraser bridge and it was a car full of middle eastern people and I still sat there and he cut me out and cut in front of me and the driver got out car and came up to my window and smashed his hand on my windows or screaming at me, and so my whole body just started like convulsing, like giants, when convulsing I just called down one has a high, I mean insulted by this man you're gonna need to do something because I'm gonna do something. She's like MA am stay in the car and, like key smashing my window leg, I'm sitting here like laughing at him as is getting worse.
The more angry I'm like this is and then the light turns green. He jumps in the car and takes off. I grab his plate, they take the plate, they go down, they actually dealt with him and he actually got like in a lot of trouble. So I just for me, it was like exposure therapy was one of the bigger ways. It doesnt alison exposure, therapies, heart very difficult for a lot of people and it does not all work. Sometimes it can make it worse for individuals, it actually got to a point where they would me to write down the really bad stuff that happen. Deployment like all of it. Everything that's like in here right it out into like a couple pages and then I'd have to read it to him and got to the point where I was actually saying this and it was making it not worse, but I wasn't it wasn't. Helpin wasn't help the situation so then we moved on to things like empty are, and you know that's where you, where are they sensors in your hands- and you know it triggers the brain, the one side of the brain and that's supposed to help. It didn't work with me me. It really was just starting to understand ptsd ptsd and how the framework,
when he started he got these got this whiteboard when he started to explain to me instead of treat me like a patient, but talk to me. Like a colleague, I started to write my brain around a he's, so this is what's happening when you have this event, this party, your brain is lighting up and because of a team, while he wouldn't know the timber because of pity ass. You know this isn't actually doing what it should be doing so you're dopamine in your serotonin, and then he would start to explain how the brain is. You know, handling and then your cortisol and like that's what you're having physical reaction. So he just started to talk to me like a person and not say hey, so, what's wrong with you today or how are you struggling? but this is what's going on with your body and our go. Also when I see that person, that's why I'm feeling that way Oh so see you're just explaining to me what's happening. I can start to wrap my brain around it. I wasn't. This like helpless, hopeless, individual sitting across from you that just needed to be fixed, they need to be fixed. I needed to be heard
needs to be understood, and I needed to be educated. That was it and what we have now found out as of last year was I had an n part of the reason it took me so long to get to this point again There is no time frame that is right and healing is not linear, so it can take you ten, twenty thirty years it can take you one to two years depends on how its handled for me two thousand and nine from that from that operation till bout. Two thousand and fifteen: that's when I heavily heavily medicated like would wake up in the middle of the night? Make food have no clue. I did. It would have conversations with Brady and he had be like do not remember the whole conversation we have less. I, but no would not
It's all medicine induced yeah yeah, all all like. What's that word, like reactions are like it's just like a something that can happen. I can't think of the word right now. It's there's a word for the blackout, this like when you drink yeah happened that package something like that and we're gonna drawing any outcome. I actually had several situations in ottawa when I was living by myself, where I would wake up on the floor, and I used to like to make peanut butter, toast and and wake up with my cat, like on the floor, like every passing, so it must hit my head when I went down night like half a loaf of bread leg, I just Shit was this all medication related and so doktor passing really really series is like hey like you know at this point I, but I was married I got married. We knew we want to have kids. So this the conversation had to get real about, like hey you're, on drugs, that Yes, they may be helping you, but at what cost, if you have a child ripe and so that's when we started to get into the city,
conversation about medication and and that's when I started to say like hey, I I don't wanna beyond these. My whole life there's gotta, be a better way and then that's when he suggested art therapy and that's how that started, and that's the big being of your jewelry company. You had such a weird thing to say: jewellery company has a lot of people shy away, and I too funny look on, and I know it's recap it's weird, because I never yeah. I never meant to make jewellery. I never wore jewellery, it's not space. I these two fuckin, it's not so I used to love when I was like I love jewelry. I love dressing like this is not the tomboy with tearaway pants, so when they came up he just suggested art therapy of any kind painting right do something and so that's when we started that and I started going too we'll stores- and I had a couple
basically Brady was like. Why don't you just call some friends get some casings like you have a bunch of people that get you some stuff when you play with those like I dunno what you're gonna make out of it, but just go play with those. So I made some calls Was to some people that I end up. You know who word did basic weapons? Were snipers in the arts yarn. They sent me some like loophole, ok things and then some fifty cows and then some seven, six twos and five five six and they would them to me in a box nah. So at that point I had started like sitting on the kitchen table and hammering the shit out of brass, and I would get like wire and like wire rap things and I'm just I'm a mess, but I'm not a bad, though I'm not a bed and I didn't think a suicide and ambrosch my teeth, but I didn't. I also but all day that serious that that was a that was like I got out of bed, I sat down to the cat table. I was from the moment he went to work, and I was there
when I got home and I didn't move, but I wasn't in bed he's like ok, my brain is focused on something else. So at that point that started to grow, meaning I was like well, I heard that crystals work and I was sitting at the point of light, just desperation of like hating waking up hating? How is feeling or not feeling at all, hating the way I was reacting them fighting in my life and just the pain that it was just getting up and opening my eyes renee and so I was like fuckin crystals. It is, and so I went to a local story and I like on a whole, all the crystals- and I was like I like black, so I picked a bunch of black stones and clear, rocks and start, wire wrapping these just. I have photos now when I look back at the shit, I was only website- and I am just it's just the atrocious, but it was
what's beautiful about it, as it was the start of something really really cool and that the start of me. Finding my way out of this diagnosed life, I was deemed to live for rest of my existence and be a welfare patient and someone is on meds and who has to be at a doctor every other day and that's what the a territory me was the going to be the rest of my life, and this was a lifeline, and so I started building beaded bracelets. So, just that beaded bracelet, with like an eight millimeter bead on it with a hole in it and I would take elastic and then I would have Brady bought me a pipe cutter, a handheld pipe cutter and he built me this little block of wood and then he drilled a hole circuit with the casing in there. I could take the firing pan out and then I could hammer that instead of the kitchen table, because I would just ask just to their hammered on sincerely brand new can table brand new house just married and I'm just fucking. This thing sideways
it's like this is my workshop now like, and so I'm sitting there- and I told dr patsy this and he's like okay, let's, let's lean in here, because we found something, that's making you get up, making you alive, making you happy or seemed to be happy. yeah. Let's keep just keep doing it and we'll keep working on this stuff. So when I would go see him, he would talk to me be like hey how's, your sex drive and I'd be like fine, fully lie to them by no later on, that was a tv I issue. And then he would be like so how'd you sleep and I'd like didn't sleep. ok, well, let's talk about how we can get you to sleep and then we would start just like ticking away at little. Things like It was the most important thing we understand. I know you're friends with huber man and he talks about sleep is like the most important thing. If you can get people to sleep, you can get them to heal. You can get. Is there anything? That's why you also know the other flip side, one want people to talk? What do we do with them? We withhold sleep within twenty four:
where's people's brains will fucking mouth like you need sleep, so it would be like. Let's focus on getting you sleep for that like the next handful of months. How are we gonna? Do that? How do we accomplish that? we need to get you moving more during the day, so your expanding were energy. Do we need to look at the doses of why do we need to look at your sleep schedule and we would just tat one task at a time, one task at a time, All doing that, I would just build jewellery older, so I'd sit there. Our almost just made a joke, a mental illness. I would sit there like. I was at a factory and I would just pump out jewelry like it's going like of style, and I would just make these beaded bracelets. So I'd take the seven x two round of five or six casing. I would grab it with a. Pair players, pliers grabbed the pipe poker and cut the off, and I take it that much off of it there and then I'll pop the firing. and cannot share for the unjust and stricken under based on a tie, bracelets and then people started to live them and then my husband was like hey. So I think you might have
Something here like I can help you if you want, and so he built a website for me, So we built a website and then we got our friend clayton who came and he would take photos and then, if we put em on the website, and then you know, nothing really happened right cause like just cause, you have a website doesn't mean things are going to self. Right back over correct so then at that point it was well. You have to call call sir knocking on doors for the houses. I mean I dunno, who who buys jewelry stores, okay, what kind of stores fashion stores I don't really like fashion and I'm not really into it. How am I going to get them to buy my stuff I would go and I would cold call people on the phone. I'd just go through a list of like boutiques and vancouver and a cold call people, and then the next question would be like. What's it called, I dunno it'd be like evelyn sheet and what was the line she blake but your margins, those a good question what you work I like I just I had to learn from the ground up
and so I started learning and then I got my first store and so sorry and dumb. started selling there, and then she was hey there's a trade show in LAS vegas. Another point I was mildly pregnant. The first small personal was huge and I should look there's a trade show in LAS vegas called magic. It's where all the buyers like north America come into their sourcing or their retail shopping for all their stores. Like you know, all the big brands go there like rebecca mink off goes there like timberline, goes there and then like smaller than no bread. It's go, everyone goes you can get by a booth just like shot show, you can go and do it. So I made a backpack full of these beaded bracelets and I printed off what I thought would be line sheets, and I took a friend with me and I was like we don't have tickets to get into the Oh poor gonna get in. So we we our way into the show, and I were the jewellery section of where the buyers would go, and I would stop people when they came on a meetings with with other brands
hi, my name's kelsey sharing, and I, This presents called her whereabouts because that's what it was first cop and I do this and I'm going to donate the money to this and then here's some samples here, some line sheets and I signed ten stores- super frowned upon, like they don't like when you do that, cause people are thousands of dollars where these boats that I'm just like hey I'm in the corner, and it worked Then that night we were. to dinner at this russian culture bone and area. Didn't have a reservation just like. should have been there and they got us in this new forty five minutes. So I sat down Then these two guy sat down beside me these guys. They were both very flamboyant and more than willing to have conversation, and I had been wearing like five or six of these, and it was just all brass casings and beads on my one arm so like conniston out and he leaned over and above what are those so those are bullet casings. Any goes why, and I said perfect, that
I put a bullet casing on my wrist so that now I can talk to you about veterans' issues and mental health. He looks at me he's like okay, so I give him this whole spiel by the end of the dinner. He goes. I'd like to meet with you tomorrow, we have a, we have a company and we work with some people and we connect. We connect people we'd love to chat if you're up, for it, like sure gives us his name. We go back to the hotel, a google, his name and I'm like that's, where I've seen he's married to jesse tyler ferguson for modern family. So, like the skies connected to someone, I don't know why, but these connected so will meet with them. We meet with them and he's like my girlfriend, Beth bearers from too girls is looking for a partner for jewellery for her sexual assault foundation that she worked with equine therapy with. So I think you might be cool fat like would you? mind if I introduced you and I was like spine fine may, while I'm like breaking the fuck out inside wave along in short and meet with her, and we have a conversation. We design a bracelet and a necklace, and they give me a call and hey so ellen.
Twelve days of giveaways coming up are you able to have like four hundred bracelets, Beth wants to bring them on the twelve days of giveaway on Ellen, and I'm, like, I still making these on my kitchen table. Okay, yeah yeah, no problem, no problem when you need to buy this thursday they needed for Saturday so my neighbors come over and people help me and were packaging and I'm just string and bathe episode of like every reality. Business show like you got it deal with due by thursday I'll get it done so I get them there and I turn on the tv and Beth is bouncing around in her of costume and Ellen's got one of my many warrior: bracelets on arrest and she's like posing it like she's, you know being fact about it like just as you would want someone to be in it. It was amazing, and so then we got hit went down to her events for the sexual self a nation and we went down and I met in cad and everyone else and julian half and all these people and then that's how it kind of
started she wave one to julianne, hough julianne Hough, wore it somewhere and then whitney cummings wore it with julianne hough cause. You know there are horse people and everyone's connected beth at her and and the so she would send me Beth, would send me photos of like her and whitney cummings be like at my bracelet and I'd be like what the fuck is happening. This is like. I just did this help myself, unlike hopefully help other people, and it's ok and so I call for my mom issues like I'm driving for Kevin heart, and I was like what your team drive with dad. What are you doing? So? No, I'm, like team driving for I'm, I'm going to do Kevin hearts. What now tour and I'm driving some of his equipment around I'm in it, to get him to meet with you and I was like okay mom. I don't think you understand how this works to totally underestimate calf. It totally addressed by the time she got to vancouver. She What are harassed, the people so much more by her.
I mean she got to know the team so well, they fell in love with her. She would see Kevin and should, like you give me my daughter, you need to meet her and finally, think he just like stopped and caved in was like your daughter in vancouver like I'll just shut up with this shuts you up. I will meet your daughter, some of the moms like bring guests like make Kevin something is still called her whereabouts at this time by the way, so I had been watching real husbands of hollywood, which was Kevin hearts Did you ever see that show oh, well, you need to watch real husbands of hollywood. Is it like a fee? It's yeah, it's it's like him and a bunch of his boys acting is like the real has like real housewives. It's sure. Yes, it's a tv show where is it like a parody cause? There's the real house, wives of wherever in that light like a parity version, but unlike the men, oh my god, it's called people Mitch's it like male bitches right. So so I'm like thinking, I'm funny and, unlike I'm, gonna, write a joke in the car who wrote on the auction,
I get to meet him. So we go to the show and then I get to like the wave back from his security guy. So we go to the bar. and it's just my mom myself, Brady and kevin, and he walks over I didn't realize. Kevin arrow same height is real, when I wear like a little he'll cabin- and I are thus same height, which was to me- was great. There was the best so I'm like here, This is who I am. This is what I'm doing. This is what I'm looking to achieve. He opens and I said I wrote a joke in there. I'm really regretting that. I wrote a joke in there right now. Please don't laugh if it's not funny he's like you want me really laugh. It's funny I was like I mean I would like that, so he laughs and he kind of goes. Huh, yeah, it's not bad. It's just kind of gives me like a it. Wasn't terrible. What was the joke? It was about him being a mitch. I was something along the lines of that and so anyway he opens it up and he looks at it and he goes is a bullet casing is again and he goes hop, that's cool, and then he looked to the test.
It goes. You want men to wear this and I said yeah, and he goes. Why is it called her wearables motherfucker? Damn it Then it just we chattered for low, but we took some photos on any yells to his boys, like yeah, we're in a tweet this out tonight, so it took is it out of the pie me up like twenty six million people on like twitter and tweets it out I'm driving over the raise your bed just going home, my god, okay, so go and die at this point. Brady goes, you know, have We take this seriously like we need to incorporate. We, maybe us think about changing the name, let's try and remind us. So that point You re, we change the name to brass in unity and incorporate in two thousand and sixteen and then, after that it was like we we would getting it on all the right people at all the right time like Brady's for with the nanny of you know. At the time it was generally on and tatum, it's like genoa bunch of my stuff to like a game I got seen and like a bunch of things, it was an ellen, it was on forbes. It was on this person and this person. It was like this weird thing
was happening, and then I was getting known in the fashion industry, so at that point we had taken it from the kitchen table in a couple years over two hundred retailers and north America, that I'd I'd gone, every single one of my own, like went to the trade shows cold called had like self, numbers texting, family members, like that's how I got my orders and I signed all of these accounts and we started donating all the money. So we only the half a million dollars and time the money came from the countries where the money will go so when it was sold in canada. staying care is sold in the? U s: gonna, u s! Organizations and then I said, taking the business like really sir. they inserted willing really trying to develop like what do I want to do? all while doing this. I was holding it kinder together, kinda surface level together, but at that point we had now had my son and post partum was that's an animal
that hormone. Well, that's that's a! I don't wish that on my worst enemy. There is something about postpartum, that's so nasty like the idea of like my cousin, my cousins had this like one time it was like. I want to drop my kid off the fire station like I can't do anymore, like the the what it does chemically to your brain. It is so damaging and like heartbreaking, because it it's something that you just can't climb out of. I know people it's it's not. left them after their kids. They ve struggled with it and had issues with that. So for me, when I caught started compound some stuff that when that happened and the no sleep again and then the stress of again and then just the new life and also to get to be a bit too much gun So I started to lean in to the businesses as I could it was like my solace. It was like my piece. It was the thing that was king for me all while doing treatment still and weaning off of medications This is when cannabis started re before it was legalised in canada. At that point, I start
using cannabis for sleep medication instead of actual medication, so now? I've been weaning off all of these drugs, and I was only unlike too at that point, but what we didn't understand was the damage was done. meaning being on unnecessary for ten years, has major repercussions and serious it. Like it can do damage to the body, long term damage, and so at this point we did switched over to cannabis and the sword to have those conversations with my and laws and everyone. Ok, I'm away smoker now, like that's a whole different type of thing, when you walk into a world where cannabis, where a lot of people like the dirty drug, like the party, drugs, the thing that you don't do like losers, do it and you lie on your couch and, like you, lose your life and like, but me I was starting to function more because of it and so all of this kind of happening and
then in twenty fools at twenty nineteen who was right before covert, I got real bad again like I was almost reverting, how's it going backwards. I wasn't having the intrusive thoughts like I was having you know the first five after the war where it was like. I would hear something and it would just bring me all the way back like sound smell temperature everything it was now. It was like why I'm getting any better, I'm actually getting worse. Why and I can't stop it and I can't help it, but I'm just going backwards and it's our get to the point where mommy was having more hard day's crying on the stairs than good days, and I would try to hide this from jack and I would try and good face just the best face. I could but irritability and then how you show up in front of your children when they're young is how they're going to show up to you, and I couldn't wrap my brain around that meaning
I was irritable or I was miserable or I was exhausted, even if I wasn't showing it to him, he could feel that, and so he would come at me like and I'd be like. Why is he always so mad at me? Why is he so angry he's like it's? How you show up your energy, it will be reflected back off of a child, that's how it works so I started to really know there was something wrong again and then that's when things got really dark again and starting to spiral a bit and then covert hit, and I lost my business overnight. So we lost all two hundred retailers in like but to expand. And now I went from finding a purpose in the thing that was pulling me out of the darkness to fight to losing the thing that pulled me out of the darkness now having to figure out myself and this and like everything, Putting everything into this financially emotionally everything I had I put into this and
Not only me, but other people are working with me and the volunteers cause I would bring in. I had symbolic here's that would come in who were acts, paramedics or ex firefighters or people that were struggling with trauma, and they would just common, hang out the office couple dogs there right so that a hang out aid package stop or they would just sit and talk, or are they we had to like a nintendo gameboy they're, just like sit there like just hang on the couch be outside of their home, it's like now, this wasn't just me, I'm worried about now. I'm worried about everybody and at that point I had gone on the by cried the seventy fifth anniversary d day, which was in france, and I was lucky enough we're lucky enough. We went over and we it's six hundred kilometre by cried for cherry and we wrote I like the whole week before then we landed on Juno beach on the anniversary with where to that are, and who was an artillery gunnar from new brunswick, and
ross k was walkin in talking and Heaven, I really only gunners on there and he looks at me one day and he goes through. We might do. I see this trip. play, ball. My eyes are right: he landed on Juno beach. He was on the first was there and to get to witness someone going back there for the first time and didn't cry a tear, and I was a stare I just weeping and he huntsmen us. It's ok, honey. All. My friends are here and all like. I just that the strength and that person, just unbelievable and the witness it was just exe. ordinary and it was such a privilege, so you know we were on this by greed and there were some people there that were some
no names I didn't. I didn't know when anybody from a hole in the wall- and I always have my bracelets- and we have this active one- that we have. It's called the buddy check active. It's just like a looks like a beat it, but it's rubber work out. Anyway. I'd given these all to all the riders so like trevor linden, was on the ride and like the ceo, David foster foundation like a bunch of different people came on. This was like one hundred and fifty of us raped and and so I gave alleys bracelets out and on the bus ride back owing to the airport. One of the guys was like hey like I know some people. Do you mind if I tell you about what you're doing, how sure so come back, get on a phone call and I'm on the phone with like one of the top publishers in north america, I'm on the phone with like the top pr person who works for like rick springfield and like candace Bushnell. I'm like I don't belong on this phone while also ridiculous, like this is kelsey. We want her story to be told and they're like telling all of this, and I remember one of the publishers she sat on the phone I'll, never forget it. She goes she's, canadian. Why would we care
And then I saw red and reactions The only person who stayed on the call is coming she's still my pr. She still works on me, but does it That is that I've been put in all situations everything the time I've tried to better myself or help someone else. So I knew as long as I kept on this path. I would be ok so He says to me one day: hey, I haven't opportunity I wanna talk, get you talked about on GM may and I want to get someone to interview and so we did this big interview and she she gets me a segment. Morning America about my jewellery brand, and All within doing that, she goes hey. Carson Daley wants to talk to you. He's got this new segment called mind matters and, at this point I'd seen it cause. He just interviewed logic, and I was like I love logic and I'm like that. Guy was talk to me like yeah.
I was like ok, she was but like just let you know it's like between three people and like I don't think you're gonna get it. So just don't don't get excited about it. She's super straightforward about it, and so I got it though so People came in and she's like, hey like this is a big opportunity. So if you're gonna start your podcast started now like start now, this is the time to talk about it. So at this point I said the Brady, like you know, I'm like we talked about me doing a podcast a year before you know this the time. Let's just do it, so we did it. We turn a design space and add a shipping container inside my office. That was also a meditation dec on top and we turn it into a studio, and I had no idea what I was doing, but I just started- and I think that's the most important part is like you have to start. You can not know what you're doing, but have to start where you're in a sitting plan yourself, india, like own grave, so I just started and I did the interview with Carson anyone really well, and we talked about it a little bit on their internal talked about how art therapy was helping me
the next day. I'd in an interview on my show, with Matthew griffin from combat flip flops, he's ex ranger and dumb sort, former ranger, sorry former range and down. My husband was like hey. What are you reach out to them for sponsorships? They put like bullet casings, inflict flops right there on shark tank, you that's where we first saw him he's like. Why? Don't you call them so I emailed them- and I was like hey, would you guys, whenever work with us god we go together like peanut butter, jelly makes sense, casings casings, helping helping it was do it and then I was like do you wanna do the but cast. and at this point I never talked to a special operator. So I was super nervous and he was like yeah for sure so, they're, okay, alright, so we do the podcast and at the end of it He leaned sank. There was virtually leans n and goes because if you know graph, he does this thing where he looks you, in the data, your soul when he goes doing, okay- and I was like yeah yeah great-
totally fine in any leans and even further and. You really doing. Ok and I fuckin broke in half it's like. He could see through me He was just waiting to see when it was gonna crack and cracked that cracked in half- and I started just losing my mind and Starting with this again, I don't know I'm not getting better. I'm doing all the way things are meeting. Are things I'm working out of balance however, I'm like just giving this laundry list and he's just sitting there going yeah sounds about right, yeah. So do you want a solution, and I was just when you mean, like I'm doing everything, I'm told. So this is the solution, should any like notes on there's other ways. Have you ever heard of bio, oscar now his leg lincoln past,
saying like it's some crazy thing. You do like some crazy drug and he is like that kind of look, there's a spot like a slot open in thirty days. If you want to come, you're welcome to join it's with real cards project and you can come and sit in ceremonies with us. The kicker is, you can't be on any drugs or any medications cause of serotonin reuptake. it can be a real, real problem, and I said okay, so I said yes, I called Brady. I said: hey, there's a thing I want to go. Do I you know what it's called I Wasco and he was like fuck, okay, alright and I just kind of said like not feeling. Well, I'm not getting better. I don't know what to do. I'm kind of my wits and here again and aids getting worse so like what do I have to lose, so I called out to pass. You say: hi I'm going off of this medication that I've been on for ten years and he goes well. I don't think that's how it's gonna go honest gad norm. Here's the thing I'm like not really asking, though,
telling you I'm about to do it, and I just need you to be aware, because I'm going to do this thing and I know that it can't be done cause. What are you going to do swollen going to go sit with? I was going. He goes yeah. You can't be on anything I said. Well, that's what I'm do any goes. Ok, I know you're, not gonna, listen and you're gonna. Do it anyway. We just gonna give him a warning or a heads up, Brady calls or something goes wrong and you know things are out of whack. This is what's going on and he goes like. You know just try to wean as much as you can, but that's what going off fidessa, sir I've been on a hundred fifty milligrams every day for the past ten years is going to have serious repercussions and it sure as hell did it had major physical, psychological tangible painful repercussions and aid,
And never recommended do it. That way is the most dangerous way to do it. You never go call turkey or something, but I was desperate and I didn't know what else to do and I felt like I did not have another option and I was backed into a corner. So I did that and then the night before I was supposed to leave my passport expired it was covered and I had my passport in the safe and because in canada you couldn't leave the country. Canada was locked like if you couldn't, they were so like if you, if you please country like it has to be for, like work. Reason or you had to have a go like a region, go to the states or like a reason to leave. It was when it was like real dice. Inner, not sure. What's going on, twenty has expired, I had done as I had my nexus card, which is like another. It's like a passport right and you can use it to drive across the border and travel and stuff like that. But it didn't have my married name on it. It just had I made a name, so I just like called the airline and I was like hey. I accidentally put the wrong last name and they're like ok,
No problem will issue a new ticket and then I just I travelled on. next this card, which the reason it's kind of dicey is because, once you have a passport in one name, they have too much, but I just haven't had the system's talk yet so they didn't know so I left on that and I went down and I sat and ceremony and that's when the the change happen, thoughts when the start of the real, deep, true stuff that was buried. was stuck that I couldn't move that I couldn't get past that I couldn't hear from that. The medication was just masking that's when the shit really started to hill. That's when everything started to change and that's like a mayhem like good journey from what I understand it depends. I mean I've. Since I've talked with you guys, I've I've sat six more time,
I was so it's I'm. I really started to integrate again. Psychedelic aren't for everyone. Psychedelic are not safe, with met at certain medication, and psychedelic should not be done in a non safe and set it set in setting and psychedelic should have a major integration component on the front line and the backing So I'm really careful to say that, because it is not like a go, do sit by yourself. Good luck! Situation, it requires. weeks of integration and a proper data, meaning what you eat, whether it's what you eat, what you can see one tv what you consume from liquid, so alcohol and all those things cannot pork you're not supposed to have certain things like you have to follow it, and if you don't you find out why you're supposed to follow it. and then it's going into the ceremonies in a safe, satin setting with facilitators? are trained who know what their due and know how to handle situations if they go one way or the other and then coming. Of that with integration on the back and whether that with your group or with a code,
or with someone else you have to integrate that and the amount people that I know that our big names you're going into situations and not integrating their shit and coming back and wondering whether still still struggling that's, why they're struggling they're, not integrating what they have learned and they are not listening. That is the most important. The ceremonies are one thing right: the integration is everything. If you don't do that work before and on the end, it's dangerous, psychologically flick physically need to follow the rules, there's a reason why you do it a certain way, and I and that definitely learn that. But ever since last time you and I sat psychedelic have witnessed leaned down and we thought we were just talking where war during sarka, though we weren't, no jocose nigh during psychedelic hadn't slept any bad life. Have you and our doings, like it, Alex in the room together now that I can't see that ever happening, I can't see sitting with the medicine ya know! I've never done reach ox before, and so
other than alcohol and caffeine, I dont use alcohol anymore she's, very, have become more and more anti alcohol as time goes on guys, it's really terrible and yeah I've just never. I don't really have any desire to do any drugs. It seems like it's like not for me One is, to put it simply: have you have you sat with any psychedelics before you know it you're both very like a type, not necessarily need control, but control is a big aspect of your life at Andy. Asked me this too. He was like yeah I've never done psychedelics. I could probably tell you why it's a control thing, certain, when you sit with a really strong medicine, whether its five emilio as strong suicide and ceremony. I was good deal. I begin whatever you don't get to control any part of any of that Well, your body tests which your mouth has
whether you vomit, whether you share yourselves, you tone gets a control a lot of what the medicine does. When I say you you'll lose control, Now, like anything you ever experienced where you like. I can find my way out of this. It's like, I know, you're done but sit. And the more you fight it the more it takes hold right, and so a lot of people. I notice who have never expire, instead, our people that maybe lean more on the not needing, but definitely more control like us environments and situations how your body feels and like always want. to be a certain way? the guy had a marine with us in Peru and control was a thing for him big time and I remember when there was an incident on the one night we had a gentleman who is with us. Here is a good friend now and I've been in plenty a ceremonies at this point where everything had gone, pretty smoother one state on their Matt less was to go to the bathroom pupil,
vomited on themselves. Zeros standard behaviour sounds like a good time. Doesn't it, but at this time, on the second night, improve. I had an individual who is one matt in between. There is one person in between us. and we were sitting there and I was the first to drink that night and you dont choose who drinks right. It's the mistress in the middle, the healers, the shapiro tribe, people who I set with from Peru, and they decide who comes up first and they have a way of doing it. You just another thing I got called up first, that night, and so I went up- and I took my gun that got the medicine to my prayer over at drank it. I just gotta, get this thing about shrinking it and get a whole body gag and I went sat back down on my mac and it takes you know half an hour. Forty five for some people but by the time they got around to everyone finishing drinking. The last person was starting to drink,
and I was already shootin off to space. So at that point, that means that, well now the ministers have to drink, so that's gonna be another like, half an hour, forty five minutes before they start even singing the gross and the prayers before sam even really opens so I sat there and I was like, oh no here it comes to the visual start and the visuals are so bright and so vivid and so intense, and then they got more intense and I was like oh okay and then they were like Oh now there are out of control, and now things are starting to move and because of the tv vertigo in pots, and things like that for me was like motions, not good, so I start vomiting violently right No one else is barely even drank nothin's and started and I'm on my hands and knees and just like just the most intends to the point where
driving it now and I can't breathe cause. I can't get era between. So I'm just like you know that, like constant doing this and am- and I just remember just because control I go, I let go I go, let go and I just keep trying to sell it like a month ago interested you do, and I my whole body is drops down I have got nothing and I'm gone and I mean gone gone. not in this galaxy gone and things, swirling in its blackened. It's moving and I just hear this blah blah walk out of the corner and I kind of come to, and I got the bucket in my hand, and I this kind of its pitch black, but it's an open air molucca, so their screens so like there's a door and their screen sea could hear the jungle and the jungle has a tendency to respond when the medicine starts to respond, and I start to hear them. I stress that to say
now, I'm already in space when they start to sing what they do with those it grows as they move the medicine. So now they can moves it with and you, and so they start singing the gross and if you can feel the vibration, so there sing in this really beautiful thing, and I was like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no! No! No! No! No! No, not too far too far too far like I had. I had gone too far in my mind I thought I had gone too far right and I here the slamming and then just here Noise and it sounds like a horror movie when, like it's like a weird demon, where like that, like that, right, like it's like an angry cat, thy deep level kind of growl- and I hear it coming out of this side and I just go no, no,
we're not turning her head were not like it now that we're not looking at it, because I'm going as anyone else hearings and the icarus are getting more intense and I got to a point where space started to vibrate, right, like almost like, when something's winding up where it's like move up up up up up up up up up up when you're waiting for that kind of boom, and so it started to kind of do this wind- and I hear this like and it's getting louder and then I slamming slamming and slamming, and they give you a red flashlight, the red flashlight. It's it's like opposite great scott, the red cover on it, and so they go see after the bathroom pointed at the ground find your way the bathroom. If you need help, is that your chest in turn it on. So I hear this I hear the smashing and time is just like starting to speed up and I was put in my chest and I'm vomiting and
so the facilitator comes over and he drinks too. But this is someone that's incredibly experienced in medicine who can be in the medicine but also be very present, so he like pulls me over the bathroom right and I'm going p, and I can't stop paying and so What I've learned now is that there is tons of different forms of purging, there's energy, purging right, so big yawns, where your jaw hurts you ve on so much that you're his big huge like like, and it's an energy movement right. Some people just do that. Some people dont perjured, all some people vomit some people shut themselves some people peat, and so I in vomiting, and also I have to pay an I literally can't move and Adam the bathroom. It's all whites, just like white, there's no lights on, but it's just like that white tile. So it's quite bright, you can see the light coming in. From the moon and I'm sitting there, I'm looking down at my hands and my hands are just changing and move in and moulding into these colours.
Mamma mamma camel camel can save from safe from safe just having this inner dialogue scorn p and then I just hear bang bang bag and just like people are moving in the molucca. Normally things tat pretty still I see one of the other guys come into the bathroom and then another guy come into the bathroom and then another guy in another guy another all in the bathroom, except for the facilitator and for the maestro us and one other guy, and this guy is beating the fuck out of here self he's so deep in the medicine. In that thing, that is in him, took hold of him and he just start slamming his arm. These bob Bob and his party himself and the now morning when he wakes up like his hand, a swollen. His eyes are black and blue, his legs or bruise, but would it have was he was so in medicine and ever around him, was kind of like freaking out the controllers
fact. I'm getting to is one of the marines that was in the group with me, Fox's head and the curtain, and he just goes you guys, get guys get gas, get guess I'll get it help. You were like no man we're we're all freaking out right now. if he's like, I got it, I got it, the facilitator runs and he goes hey ryan, hey ryan gunnar, now biggest yeah. I'm fine fine, because boy come with me and so they had to go hold him down. Ryan snapshot of the medicine right like he still in it, but not to be present and sits down on the guy. Like the other guy sits down and they just hold of their while they pray over him until he just his body gives out. So I spent probably half of that ceremony in the bathroom, because what I hearing. Was the thing: was coming out of him came out of him, was ripping the molucca in half and running up the ceiling. So like you, you could hear them
crawling going up the ceiling and all around it and all the time he's like make its him that was actually making that noise, the guy this thing was coming out of him. Kind of going through him in making this noise and he's smashing, and so it sounds like a whole places just falling apart and cause, I was struggling so deeply with anger and rage to the point where it manifested itself and the thing that came out of him was a form of my anger and it was trying to get into the bathroom, so I was seeing rip through the ceiling and come try to get an, but I can't stop here I can't get off the toilet to save myself, so one of the other guys who had satin money with me last time said: sam SAM, and you just get yourselves somebody's your whole my hand, samuel telstra pit sam hold my hand, stay here to stay We can hold my hand and once they kind of got him calm down. I was able to
all of us slowly there like it safe. You could come back out, you're, safe it good. So we also we started going back under the pitch black, but the thing was: Every time the mice shows would sing cause, they pray over each and every one of you there's a male and female, and they work their way around the room and each one of you The different prayer so like the male is known as like the surgeon he comes in. He gets it Where does all the nasty removal all the gross stuff? And then she comes around and bandages you up? If you will and then prays over you and does this, does this work to you and it's really intense when they're singing and praying to you can feel it's it's it's a lot. So they're like you need to receive the prayer at the end. Up like you need to you need to come out, but every time they sang
That thing in him would get angry, and so she would start to sing and he would start to rear up and then I would start to freak the fuck out he's like the facilitator, but just sit with me and just stay here. She can stay here, we're going to be in it, and so I was working through all of this, but the next morning I had a conversation and none of us at that night wanted to sleep by herself. We were also terrified. We were lit ceremony clothes and he was still in the medicine. He was in it the rest of the night so like he did not leave the medicine until them morning and he was he beat himself silly, and there was a lot of lessons in that and one of those for me was I was able to see the anger and what it was doing, to everyone around Me- and I was able to see what it was doing to myself. I oh a visualization of it. I heard it. I could see the thing that once said, was attached to me that I didn't I couldn't make go away on my own, and so as as
you, know hard as it is too sometimes to let go of control and let go of needing to be the person that handles everything it was necessary. I needed to let go I needed to go. Let someone else help me, because I can no longer help myself And so psychic alex now for me, I become such a massive part of my life, I'm doing a clinical trial with accompanying canada priscilla and soon impatient zero for I use scylla simon now as a form of any depressant. For me it almost replaced necessary, but not something I need to take only when I catch myself going into a bit of a dip, I'm able to then micro dose- and it keeps me at a place where I never did to where I can't pull myself
out again and then I use I owe oscar when I'm working through something and only when the medicine calls not when I choose to go so I've never like booked a trip or tried to its always presented itself to me as an opportunity or a chance to go somewhere and that's how the medicine it should be, and so it's been a it's been a weird transition of learning how to let go and learning how to be patient and move through emotions rather than hold emotions. You know that that definitely makes sense. I know that me and like for me. I dunno, I have always had a good grasp on that. There's a lot of things that have no control over and I'm okay with that, and even from a leadership perspective, you know I would anybody. That's ever worked for me knows that I'm the literal furthest thing from a control freak, I'm like the most decentralized like is that the true confirm Tokyo like I appeal for five combat leadership as decentralized man to absolute
what about women fact that I'm a little bit too much that way you know, but I'll, let good people let things go even more. So I've always been very comfortable with the fact that a lot of things you can't there's something that you can control and I'm perfectly fine I can kind of shrug off things that I can't control and move forward. He no sight, I I guess maybe I guess maybe I do. I present controlling but I mean I mean, like yours ears, like just an example like my kids growing up, they never have curfews like you know. I can dig you come home when, when you're ready, like that's an example that people are always, I call you serious, I'm like yeah, I'm like come home when you're needed. I think kelsey might have a little bit of a point, though, because you don't like to control external stuff, but you seem to like to control internal stuff get like kind of more hardcore than the normal person I'd say: that's probably accurate, yeah like if I like, I said I know that, there's things I can't control. I notice things that I can't control. The only thing can control really is like myself met and how
I'm gonna be haven measure, but I'm doing the right thing from my perspective a lot of people in I'm, assuming maybe this applies to it at the very least a little bit, maybe a lot where drugs make you time to lose control, no matter what drug it is really mean. I'll call you in the control of your mind, in certain ways we are talking about is another level of next loss of control. Listen, there's levels to the ship, yes, man they're, just as at, but that's ok. I mean that comes in time and You are like you do. The perception you do doubt, even though it is your controlling yourself, so whether it's like you're for thirty in the morning, wake up or its you know just getting in the work out. It's like you, do, control her life to a tea, and so I think, because when you're talking about maybe one social or what you're doing on social. The perception is that you're, like that, with all things
but that's only because people don't see the things that you're not controlling on right in the member state and serve with you. They re just assume this guy's, that's how it works, but yea anything. You know I'll call anything that you take whether it's a second look melaka. I alcohol anything that's going to change. Your perception is going to give you a lack of control internally wet we like it or not, and not as a hard thing for some people to grasp and even when you're in the medicine, it's it almost impossible to let go because what are you letting go to and what are you allowing in at what point or you letting go too far? Are you gone all the way? do you ever come back? Like that's my friend my father's now you know why I thought it I'm not coming back. Well, that's what I was afraid. improved. There was a man but where I was like during that, whereas like if I, if I fully let go here, I'm concerned, I won't snapped back, but that's fierce speaking right. That's the voice in my head. That's the thing that I talk
That's the thing that says no we're not doing. This are no you're too tired or no you can't do. This are no you're, not big enough for. Why would they talk to you? It's like that's the voice. You just have to just shut the fuck up and pushed and because it doesn't get to be in control anymore and that's the differences. The medicine has taught me that I always get to have control, and sometimes it's ok to let go of it As long as I am aware that I dont abuse it, I don't play with this medicine. It's not like offer. Fine like this site is not funny. In any event for does not sound for anybody who, like no temptation to use its zero irene, listen, there's some where your lesson like purged less violent. Like em, you, five m e, o its quick fifteen minute. You know it's dm, it's a different thing, give it fifty
if this does not sound fun. I would like to see you try it because I know how much she would fight it tooth and nail, but that's the thing, is you can't fight it like it? Doesn't you'll you'll you'll, go it's a sorry to disappoint. You probably won't be doing any of these things gee. I thought- and I think this kind of applies to a lotta psychoactive substances. If you start with the reason anyone would choose to do that, isn't it because they don't like the results of their Trolling oconnor, my or lack thereof so thank you're in a whole, separate boat, where you like you, I like it. control over my mind, therefore, my ba the inner that stuff- and I like the it's going so why I give it up to what whatever his name is sorta. I was talking to some of my friends that have done the journey and they're like. Oh, you should do it and I was like man, I'm probably not going to do it like. Oh, you know you. You should, and I was like well
I feel like I'm driving down the highway at like eighty five miles an hour, and I feel pulling over the side it is taken apart. My engine together doesn't seem like a smart move, not I ve, also in pretty good, could we go and ninety five, and I know that I think I'm I think I'm actually going pretty good. I think I'm gonna, like that, you know, like looking at my our pm's in their smooth and like the tent you're a good and there like we, ask your wife what she thinks. I go ass, my wife. What she thinks she be like do disguise fine life, let's not us that lets the mess up, the legendary I actually agree with the especially for your situation. Where does actually more per year I'd with it. Just from this alone over at the very least, is gonna overtaking sides us, has been devised a loser lula, let's face it by your, but ok If we were forced to take sides, I'm gonna be leaning little bit or because I think that new perspective that from one analytical, my brethren animal that people have taken young ones.
Or another on different journey journey tat. Yes, yes, yes, how very soon people who have done it and they all kind of report back this. Sure thing words like men. It offered this perspective. Those very like I opening in and improve their perspective on things in varying levels of lasting results, but at the very least the experience improved their their outcome things I think it's it's have white your intending to go and do and how much work are you willing to do afterwards to keep the lasting effects? That's the the trip, the the trip the journey is, is just the catalysis. Just the pin drop the rest of it comes afterwards. The real work is after because now you ve explored youth. The mere has been put in front of you, whether you like it or not, the stuff you're seeing is not something you want to see but you're, seeing now, because this is what you ve you chose to do
Now, I'm going to show you what you need to see to work on it so like, for example, sees me the first. The first experience I talked about where I I did it with grief and those guys. That was very much if you were to take a line and you would have put the future in the past. The first trip was the very bottom the past, the stuff that was stuck the trauma of the afghan staff, the stuff I couldn't undo the stuff. I couldn't work through so those first three trips where that second time, my when workers its listen, let me stop it, stop it. You stop it listen there. You do them in over three days to do one each night. So that's one ceremony also, You ve done it two sessions of reach. I dont three sessions of reach, so nice night, yes, The first one was very much the afghan stuff. That's the one that I spoke about The last show where I talked about like Chris and going through the other side and all of those really just
The closure moments of survivors guilt really really working through that there and then actually came out of that, one with no more chronic pain in my shoulder. That's permanently separated with no cholera. So that's a weird thing. All on its own, so I'd the body hold the another body keeps a score. That's a real thing, the traumas held in the bar, so when you can work that out to and then the second time I went so that would have been ceremony for five six. Those ones were getting closer to more of my future issues like the stuff. That was newer issues, not so much the afghan but more of the deeper. The deep rooted things that I was trying to work through right step that I was really really struggling with and then the last group assert as I went through, I'm not gonna sugar coated, with one of the reasons why the main reasons I went was because of this because I was not coping period, and so I made a call the jesse her or cards project no is like hey brought
because how you doing not great? What do you need? You know what it needs? Okay, when you need to go soon, it got me because, okay, let me let me see sure One thing moved all on its own. Naturally the other thing, and then next thing you know it was. You can go them so I went and, I went into that with very serious intention and that was to learn how to become a better more present wife, because at this point Brady was super sick and I was trying to be rock so I had no emotions, I wasn't empathetic, I wasn't compassionate and it wasn't because I wasn't feeling those things it was because thus boss needed me to be the tough one cause he had been the tough one for so many years right. He had been the one that pulled me at a bad got me moving got me. made sure I didn't and killing myself and he was the one who was the rock. So it was like I needed to be the rock, but I didn't know how to do that and pathetically. I knew how to do it operationally
I knew this is what you need. This is what we're gonna do. This is how we're gonna fix it not having to sit with, when you're not feeling well and just be with you, I was ignore. I got we got shit. We need to fix, like and so I went into this going. I need to be more empathetic, wife and I need to let go of the singer figures. You lived rent free in my head for two years ruthlessly and I was like I can't carry the ship anymore. I can't do this anymore, it's not fair in any It's not fair to me. It's not fair to my family, it's not fair period, and so I went in I told the I told them. I suppose I said I'm angry and I'm angry at a level. I cannot fucking control and I can't make it stop I said with a smile like every like I So angry? It's bubbling and I said having a lot of pain in my head.
and so when I went into those ceremonies, they were very they don't. When you have this meeting with sorry, when you have this meeting with the maestros, you don't and they don't talk back to you. They just listen to you and then they whisper in spanish and then you leave and then you go and you do the the vomit tivo which you're going to love it you're going to guess vom a tivo is vomiting but its force you drink this lemongrass t it's cold and there's a big jug and you all sit outside of like one of the little huts and you will get a cup it's about the big and you fill it up and you have to drink it continuously until you start vomiting and the whole point of view and, firstly, making the tv clearly. So you do that, though, because
we're going into ceremony the next day and if somebody didn't follow the data or they didn't fully cleanse themselves properly. This takes everything out and they kind of say it like. This is like the farmer, prepping, the garden or the prepping the fields right before the for, for the the the the come in with the medicine and they plant the seeds, and so you do this and its that's a fun experience for everyone involved and dumb and then you go in the ceremony after that, but one of the knights, though I had said that I had said to them the maestro you know, but my head and he came over when he was working on me, they tell you like. These people are pretty physical, so like heads up, if they tell you to do something, don't freak out dumpy where did out like this is they ve been doing this for thousands of years, and this is lineage like just do what they say. They don't speak english, either so the one night he comes over to me and he's done
praying over me and I'm in the medicine. But I'm not vomiting on myself for a minute and he just gets up and grabs my head on the sides and just starts pushing from the front and the back are just pushing and just pushing and pushing and pushing and pushing, and then he stands up and he just grabs. They have this. It's like a perfume, but it's like they're each purse. Each maestra has their own and it's like prayed over and they use it and sometimes they'll spit it on you and sometimes will poured on you and it's kind of like a like a holy water, but there's a joke there. So I he goes and stands on top of me, and he just and he blows into me and I felt from the tip of my head all the way down. If you were to
Take a couple inches off my body. Almost like my aura. I just felt everything just drop out and my whole body just kind of dropped and I was exhausted and I asked them the next day when we were, we were doing the flower bath and he said, and he he just looked at the the translators, goes oscar. How is her head feeling today? It was the first day I didn't have a headache, so I was like shit, okay, alright, where do whatever the last night she comes over and she's praying over me and I had been expressing and could we do group and all these things, and so I'm talking about what I'm struggling with an frustrated with all this and the next eight she goes in and at the end of ceremony. She comes over to me and I'm one of the last one she prays on as she goes. She grabs my shirt and starts pulling pulling it up sacrifice. So I just lift up my sure: it's pitch black doubt kara had a baby in hospital. Ever one seen everything and she's she starts pouring in honor