« Jocko Podcast

391: From Political Prisoner to U.S. Navy Seal. Drago Dzieran. The Pledge To America.

2023-06-21 | 🔗


Retired Navy SEAL Drago Dzieran takes readers behind the scenes of his incredible life, from an impoverished childhood in Communist-controlled Poland to his time as a political prisoner, to his twenty years as a member of the United States military’s most elite fighting force.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This is jocapa gas number three. Ninety one with carry Elden and me jocker willing good evening carry good evening. We moved out just after zero, two hundred we functioned seamlessly as a unit pushing through the quiet pitch black night toward the compound rising out of the dusty iraqi streets. Are orders were to capture kill the target we had come from that the terrorist was in the building these lt element, including myself, scaled the six foot, concrete fence, imperfect silence, while the designate security, element, circled the walls compound terms, sure the terrorist escape was impossible. We hit the ground barely a rattle within moments. I was shouldered, against the outer wall of a building just inside the fence, a string of and with me with pride. Movements. I set a bridge. in charge on the door and on my
signal. My security element and I began to walk back toward the designated space around the corner, where the to the assault element. We're ready were already taken cover. The moment we began to move, however, I realize with a sinking feeling that the request images, I'd studied earlier shown the mound of rubble in the sea. Corner between the wall and fence shit, There was barely enough space left to cover most the assault element. I wasn't going to fit and there was no time to scale the concrete fence and take cover it was but second decision. I back my health is far from the door as possible and then dropped. My niece, I covered my, with my am for curling up to protect is much of my body as possible based on the four calculations for safe stand off. I knew would still be relatively safe. As far,
As the shock wave was concerned, Early on from my previous direct action missions to calculate the sea, distance from breaching charges in two ways, one normal, per the manual and one for situations like this, for me. The second calculation was important for times when I may not make it to cover but needed to have an absolute minimum, safe distance. It was a distance. the breaching charge that could cause injury, but should not be incapacitating. I was hoping to never use it. Once I knew every one else had cover. I quietly ass, the call over the radio turn steel turning steel, turning steel and I detonated the charge on the door. the blast blue fragments of the door. Right over my head with a thunderous sound that rattled my school a shock wave that felt like it.
let me off my knees, slammed we back onto the ground. I yelled been open open, even as try to regain my footing only to fall back on my hands and knees bleeding from my nose in one ear the breach through the door wide open and the rest, The assault element was forced to shove me out of their way as they rushed the building through the smoke I dont know. amber pain in the moment pain is the last thing on your mind, when you're in the middle of an operation around quickly enough to join my team to clear the bill in going room to room on autopilot ears ringing, we caught us spect without much struggle and we returned to base on the high of a successful mission before the sun was even up
then that right there is an excerpt from a new book. Let us out right now just came out, it's called the pledge to america, it's written by thomas drilgo IRAN and is actually a little an excerpt from my life as well, because I had the honour to be, admissions like that with drago in two thousand and three two thousand and four in baghdad, throughout Iraq. I also served to withdraw, go at she'll team to drake platoon, where we served on the u s s john f Kennedy and went over the persian gulf during the millennium. It was an awesome time that we had and has was me to get to know drilgo, and he has one of the most unique stories in the world, and I know that's a bold statement, but he when you hear it you
I will agree with me it's one of the most unique stories in the world and he sharing this complete story in that new book. That's out the pledge to america and it's an honor to have drilgo my brother. Once again, he was here progress to seventy six haven't back again to talk through this, drug o welcome back, brought good to see you man, thank you for it I me thank you. So much is nice. back absolutely Why are we even when you, when you read this event and adjust the adjusted? who remember those times, though those great times I mean those ties yeah. Send me some videos and just seeing it was like The ones you sent me we're just ass, we were kind of vehicles are lined up, gotta get in and out of vehicles were kind of having powwow about the finite or the final details of an operation and
that's what we're doing almost on a daily basis, and you could see that everyone was in that mode. Everyone just knew what was going on. Everyone was confident we were so engaged. in those missions all the time and what a little, what a little like window into the past to see what it look like because now we don't sit there watching a video of a like a man that really happened, and that happened over and over and over again do the book is incredible. The book is, there's so much detail in it, and you know it's weird. but when you tell me stories like this about your past we kind of like laugh about on me like it just basic
teen. Guy who's worry us. There was only one. That's weird! That's that's funny! You know how the hell do you love in prison? They suddenly this, but they you know we're all because we're mission oriented for of focused and that it was just like funny story to say maybe two just to take us away they'll over the edge brutal, but between missions are staff. In the end, You know, I think you in, and I was the same way I didn't think much of it people were or were always telling me. You need to write this in the bullion to writing the book and nice like well, maybe one day but I think it is important to lead it. I think today, because our country, I think, needs unity. I think we need to go back to basics, and then look at america again how great country. It is a great country we have I want this book to be up. I assume it to be a lance.
you can see even causing, and better their views use of amerika house petra country, it is anti that's just there was my call that the reading this, knowing about the come, these men, socialism and other groups the council. Then you will appreciate our country our amerika more and yeah. I'm kind of scared to start looking slowly more like a mirror from their play. Of the place of the escape from but again We need unite, we, our country, will not move on for the better if we are divided, so I hope it will help people understand the greatness and weakness of america yeah greatness in uniqueness and also the threat it's very sobering to read story? And here
storing again I I kind of almost like a cartoon image, of what you had grown up, what where you'd grown up and what you'd been through and even the last time you on on my podcast, I was listening to it again and yours, things are also. I was in prison and, like think about that, think about that first Oh, you know we were sure for your liver die and you know for you and me, as grown seals like ok yeah, we were on the point at which we but you're a young person and you weren't look. There was found. And thousands of people that were arrested. That there is. people that were murder, people that were killed. All these things happened, and There is a certain level of detachment from it when you, when you and I as grow manner, kind of sit around it. We're talkin, something it in your past and I just never really like us. Even when on the podcast gas last time it did way is heavily on me as it did. When I read it when I read it, in this book it's
it's very sobering and the book exit so real and the fact that you were able to get out of there the fact you are able to get asylum. The fact that you were able to escape the polish people's republic, the pole wish people's republic, they just change the name they made little change to the flag and there were rats everywhere yes yes and you never and you never knew what is waiting for you behind the continent and this as those who live in those it in. Begun socialist country because I would like to make a point here: that none of these countries behind the iron curtain- and none of these. not poland, not is germany, chow, slovakia, bulgaria, romania, now Even soviet union were ever communist countries. We can afford
damn right, this endeavour in when I even in my book, say the same thing. Sometimes referendums that companies, but the bottom line? The fact is that they were not communist confidence. There were socialist states, there were socially state run by communists, like my father, higher can companies than the office shouting polish government. So I know this lead, but from both sides from here I had the chance to be behind the curtain of this sorry state how it works, but more than that most of the pause here, the transparency. Well, I want to go through some book here. It's like us, it's a heavy read. You know a lot parts of it, your theory and well- we'll get into it, but wanna start at the beginning with with where you started and you saved. My life began in october, nineteen sixty four, ten years after the end of world war, two
closer than you, and I are right now from September eleventh reyes. So yes world war. Two was fresh in the memories growth, Poland was still a place of desolation and despair. People were still trying to rebuild their lives after the second world war, but this time under terror and totalitarian state run by communists and marxists. Like my father, yes that's where I spent the first five years of my life or the years of my life amid the right, the ruins of the old bombed out. Poland and cheap scaffolding of the new Yes, and there was nothing, For me, I thought it was. This is the way the life ass. I didn't know any better than no one is different and I remember playing with those ruined buildings now sometimes title destroyed. Two I thought it was funny. No, we didn't have any
by the supervising, as would just cut loose and go so we were dead. so many times I came like almost like a painted entire because we're with tat our haze. We walk into the bottle, then I will lakes above our knees, even all entire system. I m just going to have the tag every time she so us from this excursions, but I thought it was fun you would always we're, was dead. The two of us might have married to thus You say we were with me where my parents, That is long says Latvia send his love and Florentina. Yes, My mother, following my rival, my brother, slavic yes and my sister, Justino. Yes, It works, thankfully, my opponents, Nepal is those groups that is is is good
together we lived in a standard, multi family home a two floor by the book communist build in a town called z, loan gordo, yes Girl translating is agreeing here is a beautiful town. In those days it was, I think, was found in the dock. five hundred it here so it is sub gas. This is what a beautiful has a lot trees, Don't think what was sticking out for me was the gray buildings of saw the collie like us Socio architecture is a socialist architectural disabled. They covered the bullet. Everything is grey. Everything is the same. It look like Project projects causes, maybe in our country, canada much wars, because again, everything is decrepit and everything is being You can see it on youtube with some of the videos from that coming soon. in Poland? Even I'm watching sometimes- and I guess I was like
cab. I can't believe I leave to the body you know. I see I have this distance now living in. It's parity living in the beautiful country as a free man. What is it this is a bit different now perspective than it was then yeah, you didn't know any better only different. We live downstairs which had two rooms for us in a third room for an unrelated single man single bath. And one rudimentary kitchen, we all share. On the first floor, upstairs there was a duplication of downstairs for plan with another unrelated family occupier, which is crazy, right, you're living where I am now allow it is crazy. That's like somebody move to your house and government came in, say, okay, this guy's going to leave with you right now, or the family were going to put into that room so that room is no longer yours they're, going to even let me sure, your bathroom and kitchen never think that you have up there so for me, it was like what I was born to rights
bother me, but I'm my mother, she was crying about. They say this is not the way to leave for if both for people and my father was of course communist. He was afraid to say anything he was even to send us to chance that guy I still remember my eye- was pasok football through the window because he didn't. Let sk I didn't know. What can I ask you to go to church because he was a he's going to lose his job. This that the faith. The family values are totally incompatible with its source. Lisa. That was there critics of this other colleague democratic socialism in poland at the time. so they all stuck about democracy about so how's demo. accessories was great and the like? I didn't know better I'd. I start eventually growing. and learn more about what is really going on in a socialist commie, such poland. How come you because everybody
is covered by the council's everywhere. I read it is being referred to as a communist state but again legacy ipod. Nano and where they were dead, there's a reason why there were not so coke coming estate then we'll get. You can dwell a little bit more, but so so, unlike in coming state run by a typical, clean communism, in such an early stage, you do have private property, you do private business you can own, but major did that the the dead, the key in brussels sure is owned by government is, is ruled by government saying the police and the military. Everything is run by the government, but you can have some small properties. Of course you know how it ends up eve. You eve, you are part of the government go along with with them there Let you exist and keep your little bit by
if you sway. Away a little bed or you are not convened. and for a socially state that we're doing that will just take your business away. They will stop you that supplies you won't be able to make going be oop to do any business, so day they control everything and this is what happened to my family hope. You also argue those companies system, you dig- has never private property, well We did have a private property, but the government ultimately on it and them in case of my uncle, who are here by companies and in the home, is using a concrete guy right, either conquered guy yeah he's, so he decided He seen how poorly the The the socially system operates. So he does to just completed with them. He knew that he was excellent so he started building those breaks
And selling the brakes due to two builders breaks, the the their blogs and- The point is that it some of the private businesses stop doing the buying from government I guess, as we basically, he was competing directly for him for with the brick makers and the siddur bookmakers run by the government got government state by the socialists. State, so the the police came in. I thought you may have to scale down because you are competing with with the government here at it and into to stop. He said I can't yeah. I just put the god alone. I bought the trial, I bought this and I'm better law making and within budgets this. However, on my company and data they say that leave you to scale down the your business will not prosper and there he didn't so their anti fascists.
That's what they call themselves in poland, but there were social he's goons. There were just people who they tracked protect the society from nazis, many facets and my uncle because he had his own business? He was a labour forces in that sea, so they came in the story. He's machines. They re, he's business and then When my father went to police complaint, he knew who also because a date that They usually that that the coming stay the socially state use there. those in eve young, guys, young people from schools from factories, They organise their mean. Like you know, we need to be part rules. We are put a possibility. That is a fast is up. There well, let's, though, they care of that that would they, when they destroy his business and when my uncle and complain about it to pull they. They arrested handling bt, mildly torture. For the night,
came home and say you do it again? Would do it again, so my echo fix that. He's the machines are doing the same thing again and things could it be that sovereign again, I think you are three times until he. Finally, then having them others to rebuild it, and then they did that his business this. Had this does nothing unusual without describing here it was quite come. In point. If you didn't go along with their suddenly stayed with their eyes with the party line that the communist party line those social state run by communists, mostly and then they did, they run your business. They destroy you already. they couldn't do there. They kill. You, though, did a lot of that their graves across poland. And not only poland are all socially states right now, where a lot of these people who oppose socialism in poland What that ain't dead thing didn't happen. Just overnight
What happened after what war when socialism was broth By the russian violates sound, phronsie russian as soviet union violets. We need to distinguish the russian poor and soviet union and companies. By this. When it was brought the point that not everybody who was not even cause. The aim of the possible not sympathetic, sympathise, with a socialism and communist party was was under observation. Will I mean those total? totalitarian system suddenly thrown on poland, and in this something that we need to be cared for in amerika. We just need make sure that doesn't happen here, because it is easy to do to fall into that think so people who back from the west, who were I think, the other hitler and in the heat socialist germany,
our social east, germany, they What honest at most of them were arrested, even the hero, even with like polish, with the most of the chaos in the second world war, on the side His name is stanislav scotch. He he returned to poland after the second world war, he was is that he was sentenced to death on espionage discharge. So most of those prominent heroes of second world war were sentenced to death Not not. Every sentence was carried out, but that time, many of them were sentenced to death. and so on as well charge or working the west or with housing, something or just being not good citizen and that venture came to the point that if you still have food you could be sent us today
and those that sentences carried out for people. Let's see the food and black market order, manipulating food in poland, yes or even though there was a facade there, you could have private pretty, and you can run your own business, the ultimately the governor. It had full control and they impose their control and make people fall into law absolutely. There was no such thing like you permanently own, Thank you may think you do anti. Although you are approve wrong by communists, there's, like my father, save you know I haven't. I went for a year to leave with him because my mom couldn't afford to feed all three of us, so so my father was very adamant about it. He say, look
The socialists will such a great system. For some reason, people do not like to subscribe to it, so we need to make- people are over how great the systems of other still vote buying through it. We basically cancer them out of the society. We need just silence them and say what these that doesn't work then He too physically silence them. That's my father's wards and those nothing unique at the time. That's that's! How, my father perceive he's a role in society, building this better more humane, socially stayed that everyone, it gets equal part. Everybody contributes. Equally to it and that doesn't work, but they realise that does not work. People don't want to vote for them, so the next linking fraudulent elections investing They came to just cancelling people, so there's a lot of our thoughts. Poets
paint. As you know, the people who make statues day totally removed actors. There were castle, they were removed from they were not allowed to play in this There is no other throughout to play in the movies their names, what a silence, even famous people, who were well known in poland at the time, there were silenced the bite through censorship to the point it like the next people, five years later. Nobody knew. How is it that a name? Nobody remember who they were and do it very again at one time, prominent and the famous people? So then this is did what what we need to understand is that events We people realise that this whole socialism is a hoax, is just a tool for the government, control people and people involved so that
on both data vote for them, so now that the socialists they need to do so, think about it, because if they give away the power the eat them lie. There were hanging from the latter posts. and we wanted to hang these companies from the latter impose if you could get away with it the older the perversion depravity they thrown on polish society, butter, Eventually, though, this day dead, this will have resolved if the fragile in relation to the terror. only saving grace, I think poland and other countries is that Those of starting in the polish communists. Did have access to computers on this and we have now they didn't, understand that social science, so they resort to tell because that's what socialism eventually has to adapt to keep. boy line. They they missed one thing
Eve Joseph Stalin flow the flow the poland with people with no loyalty to poland, so he was, but if he would bring people from this republics, if he would bring people to pull in other countries, and flowed the candidates with people with norway to these countries. There no poland. There would be no czechoslovakia, Roma that would be one big soviet union I can't even imagine like the lightning, or a new nuke. So you get so you, your your father, he's a cop carrying communist korea. With with with poland with which government many working for the polish government, your mom, on the other hand, dot hates communism its marxism hate socialism she
what do you say this? She saw the communist regime as nothing more than occupiers by a different mate name like the nazis during world war. Two and the germans during world war- one she was a devout catholic too, which didn't sit well with my father, who believe for the party line was necessary for communists to be atheists, so You ve got that going on in your family your father does. want to spend any money on you. You do say this we couldn't afford by the state required school uniforms and our grandma accomplish seamstress made them force instead, the richer kids were quick to point out. Our uniforms, we're not purchased and were homemade. Mostly kids, this time. A wearing these homemade uniforms- and I did so decided to beat the rich kid who His mouth first about the uniforms they me alone had never heard of called my uniform forget. That's is what I started reading through the violence works and at least in poland at the time they within the world today. Today poland is different continent, but at the time it work. What very well,
but this isn't just hear one think when you save my mother was that the tunnel holding the social, each man and socially state because she ended. to that she issues she understood very well. She knows what happened in some: the union at the fire before the second world war, but my My father's mother paid the social he's been coming. It's too and I talk about it. I remember the further she was the one who told me how to pray to god and We always pray to god, for it not to be good to everybody to us to help us through these have times and together coming out of the happy ass fast ass again, so that so So this is, like my father, didn't know when he heard that he freaked out you ve got in here. This is this is how you got to pray with your grandma before. happiness, liberation kneeling to me. My grandmother would say things like police and the communist back to where they came from an please take the red satan away from poland, and I
repeat word for word after her half repeating what few times I had to ask: who are these people? They are evil, they kill people and keep people in prison, real demons. yeah and that for me for the yankees, you know, Let me about the hell about the demons. I thought that this case. What I had to actually ask ass my grandmother so grammar they have those horse and tail the pitchfork staff so well not that you can see it by the dose of that type of people. Just would you describe, they just hide, but you can recognize them by their deeds that that the atrocities they commit against other people. You see like this is my my mother Family was very cute on human or humanitarian side. Human humane or my father's. Finally, that the parties parents, my grandparents, they were
my father was now he was totally sold out I can see why, but now we can talk about it, but but he was totally sold out to the depravity perversion of social Isn't this. I I can imagine you've got this one kind of argument. They would get they get in fight your your father and grandmother and he You say here: he demand that she never talk about communism, socialism, don't talk to my son, about That's you we're build a socialist paradise for all of us. I am not evil. In response, my grandmother would become very still she would rattle off the names of people, she knew who had been imprisoned, disappeared or murdered from memory, dozens of them years after the fact those names me nothing to me at the time. As a kid, I didn't understand a lot of that
I was too young to made to understand it, but I knew there was something wrong and that that my grandmother, my father's mother, very adamant about it, and they she never. she never approved, what my father was doing at them, she died. So can that's that It's kind of sad this. How social, tears, the families and friends- and indeed Is it the fabric of society very quickly, which is one of their goals? It is because they have they have to be this is it for they have thus to stay at the power it is. nobody will vote for them by the in time. One citizen against another citizen is easier. You cater to undertake to another one and they the rush to both and both were hoping that yeah you'll be with them against other people. the other side of things. The same the same.
this is how you end up, eventually with her, with her with being the broker between these grew to groups that dislike each other there they were against each other, so that the socialists, the companies would place them. So in the meal and being while the brokering, the peace and this how they they Even that didn't work, dumped get elected, so they had to resort to jill and elections and ended and then was the borrowed themselves in society wisely. Stability is the pattern of fraudulent elections. You can get. The mouth basically took Poland five decades, to claim that these parasites out of poland and be free. and you can see how parliament, immediately after just got to get rid of that such worrisome. How poland flourish! I mean look at the,
putting this guy is weakened. to counter this guy in aid you stupid. Good guy. But he's guy is excellent smart guy we, I wouldn't call eighty somebody who lobby The broken empire put it back together and this threatening entire west again, so that the app We just need to be careful and done. This means that threat from people, because we don't like them, we may not like putting, but extremely smart and violence, and he did a lot to bring russia back into the picture and start treating everybody when you talk about growing up in this system in the you say this estate infiltrated every aspect of our lives. Learning the russian language, for example, became mandatory when I entered fifth grade, even that young age I was. I was precocious, I open
He questioned why we had to learn russian when there were people who didn't even know polish fully. After all, the russians, were occupiers that didn't go over well in my school. My mother was no longer teaching in the same school as me, and I was unable and was unable to provide me the usual first line of punishment. So my He drew immediately pulled me out a class in march me straight to the principal's office. Once I was dead in front of him. He call the police. on their way to school. The police grab my mom out of her school across town and sad us all down for a talk in addition to the uniform police officers and men, the state security police in plain clothes, joined the police during the questioning of my mother. If this house again, if we hear anti communist and anti polish sentiments expressed again, they said he's to an orphanage and you'll be facing prison time for failing to teachers? children. The right way to think that's correct this. What happened when and it was not in politics from my side at the time I was just- the cape and you're, not
gonna want freedom on the language. You have enough problems with polish language, so what the hell I do love is something else that I will endeavour to using and in my mother always tells me that is just a language which is used by our that occupies of pork occupiers of paul upon poland. So it was not that We take the time I was just being keenness of fucking them I don't want to have but this is how it ends up, but the also if you think but more this is there that the rules on the regulation that allows that were in poland, in fact alone, this state that the state to take the kids away, for several reasons, that you would never think My mother would never think that there are such a regulation that would allow us to be placing state government state orphanage,
because we don't likes the us, we're being told not to like socialism or just told you that we do not like social is in and the speed at which the government gets involved in that process from your last from the state police in uniform officers. Talking to you in your mother, no same day the opportunity there was like forty minutes in an hour so saying that that each to me The teacher was she in russian. Maybe I think she was one of those polish russians and the answer that the to meet the principal's office. They sent me down there. They can't police and I didn't know that that the time that's a workplaces come here right now they came with my mother because they go the arrest of my mother detained her pull her you're breaking the school the office in they threaten us, I remember my my was shaking and how scared too, because I see my mumbling so scared and and
that's how they that's, how they slowly get control and break because what does your mother she's, like? Ok, listen, do I want to lose my son and go to jail, or am I just gonna tell him hey be quiet comply, so a lot of people are like hey. I don't have time for this kind of trouble. What this kind of trouble, I will lose my kid and I want to I have to read this: we don't need that. Just go, go, go and say this go along with it go along with it, but this creates two different problems then, once it teaches kids to be this genuine, a teacher, kids to lie and cover it up, and also teaches them that either stand up for you write the fourth for what is right. You just do what is safe and are you remember, the times going to school and mother always to me and my siblings say, do not talk politics at school. Do not say do not get provoke, done
don't say anything that could be taken the wrong way because We may lose our family there. My separate us and the state. Was it did happen? I mean is that the dead, get away, but there are some people who didn't and some people because of something like this, they lose. and they if they didn't straight themselves, up baby Sure you solve them up here than drug liquid state. funded forever until they grew up, never seen parents again so, This is the socially state. Is the country the amount of control that government has it So pervasive even maybe like my father- maybe he was he was an evil man this totally believing the socially system and to implement them as at any price but even so so so this is just
so pervasive it. It d, be its creeds people basically allow them to justify almost any action, anything a gate to protect their rights, policy- and you know we ve seen this also in other people- s social, east, germany- national social east. Germany were in our view it just speak, everybody would inconvenient for the so that their heedless, national weather got it and ass. They appeared and the socialists german workers party, if you were not convenient for them, you can then diving concentration camp and that eventually, whether there was other feebler, socialist, national, socialist germany or upon the police socialist. They both and up. as a socialist poland, the they both. And having concentration camps and
sufficient cows. Are she there's? Not the german intervention by the way This is another socially state. in the soviet union. Soviet union as the union of socialist republic right not coming, notably, the headache is partly the common sparked rounded show just like in poland but also for the facade, they have many other political parties in poland to maybe two three or four other. I don't remember that a name because they mean So nothing- the lechner, but even care about them, but always say no, this college and we worked together to my to build. But socialism to build better poland and you know of the graves of opponents of socialism, you also see like france's in america right now, the the educational system theirs. Parents that are so they're saying, hey, teach my kid, how
do, reading writing and arithmetic teach him. That's what does what that's? What do teach my ear teaching them all the slew of other things, how gerda tyrants, that parents say hey actually idle. Aren't we want you to teach my my kid that when their infer great when their second great when their fourth grade. And what heard some of the educator saying is: well, you don't get if you don't get to tell us how we're going, what we're going to teach your kids. That is what exactly my mother was stalled. Yeah, that's what I'm saying especially states like you! You are you ain't? No, mrs IRAN, you can't tell us what to teach thomas thomas's. Our kid now so in and if you do that, if you are selling says that will branch terrorist that you, you would actually literally branded terror This is so. The kids can grow up in a terrorist family. and there they didn't tell you that you, because you oppose such because you oppose such ones with your kids. We say you are you,
you, you pretty much. Your views are reliable, The terrorists totalitarian something in your keys, do not anthea, which we cannot allow your key. To grow up. this way. So we, a government, the socialist government was pain. They will provide data occasion that we need its what's best, as was the best for the socially strength, but they think his birthright. What they think this policy is the best but you know the first thing that the what don't you remember in those socially states attacks on fire who is a family values? Those like you We need a wife and a husband. Why would you do that? it is. We need to do what you need. Slap in this case need to be learned. to be good citizens and, of course, by dead, they meant socialist citizens of socially stay. And the key, what they mean as obedient slaves. Obviously is yes, and though kids from those family that oppose they know. I had the chance to go to college there
just at the end of a delegation was at their at the high school level, the most and because getting college detained, opponent egos free, but only for the politically align keats so and also, if you did during the college, we dig eat any. You could be removed very quickly, be divvied, anything The social he's left party line so they have a special points for member of socialist youth of so please this come used. If there were a point Opponents being in the party. There were two points for having a family in line with the sorcerer this the communist party in socially state such respond? These are the warning sites. This is something that we were enough. I'm I'm seeing some of these would something many things that you just mention, it really worries me winning
be very vigilant because it very easy to fall into that totalitarian government that Then she will tell you, would you would you cannot do with With yourself with the kids, then you'll be eventually forced to do things. Stay medications don't take method, patients or you, and- allow me to allow to take medications, though, because poverty is not enough. Just like happen with them by describing the book friend of mine when he's, died. Basically they they that data data. I look to provide her with a medicine not to treat here because She was all that they need. There was various causes, medicine and they need for younger people supposedly billion more for direct party like people, so that's that How evil system is, is this not easy, is not the very difficult to implement all it is. all is needed. Just keep indifferent people who
I not who are afraid to stand up for what is right, who our terrorized easily by the state and is a good example for ass could be some of these people I describing paul at the end of my book, how they were schooling. socialism, communism, judges and they are and how they stood up to to the totalitarian government. Again, why what is happening here can only be the waters me, but we need to be very careful because there I think that that socially state, we all want is violence. violence either way better than that they need violence, or this many things that they need a villain but other, every social they will have your poet. At the villain soviet union had a villain gentlemen, score the villain. So
everybody in the soviet union. There was that your colleagues that of wealthy. The peasants. Then those doctors, stunning died in during the food that, and and so didn't, follow through quite well, but it in Poland there were juice, then there were educated people, so they were Jane she would. The council intelligentsia is bad. We need to promote. People from these peasant from workers, if you are coming from intelligence intelligence. a family. Your use web as yours could very well. In germany, there was, of course, jewish nation, but this is all by their so called, like my mother, carried relative morality so you're mortality is not based in faith in something solid europe more. these base in, dollar three that can change in politicians view that we changes.
This is very dangerous because look what happened in the other heat less socialist germany, what the when he was able to pervert that most civilized nation europe. At the time in, It allows yoffe, seek people on handicapped people into concentration cup into gassing people, eventually turn them onto the jewish people? exterminating tired of nation trying to do it. So that relative morality is but, dangerous, who we to also make sure that we Then? We understand it here not to follow the related, might rightly model and another thing to lock in poland. They would always think you could be it'll be tolerant of this, who told you can't do that this is intolerant, but I say to it my mother always say uneducated tolerance
is as dangerous as intolerance. You need to gauge yourself. What you about to tolerate before you started actually promoting it in and they tolerating We would never tolerate more that's right, but if you so tribalism and a lot of morality in other fiddler, they did tolerate, utilise you're right some fast forward a little in the book. Your beer father takes a job in nineteen sixty seven year, seven years old and he he basically abandoned you guys took over you know what could be a number of things that he was having little success in a communist party, your mom. Still being catholic. religious so He felt like there's some some he's goin on their wares was wasn't gonna help his career you say we move we
to a little apartment, crosstown almost six miles from wearied been living before at that age. In that place That was a huge distance, especially prosecuted walker. Take the bus everywhere. Our beds were narrow and mattresses were thin. Much like the walls to be asleep on cold nights, we shoved our beds together and slept head defeat, by side too. polish winters are very cold, we putting it mildly. It was bad that we had to suffer coated old newspapers to keep warm the fact that we couldn't afford to replace them with coats that could act, keep us warm was worse, it turned out my father, was refusing to pay child support. So while we are trying to hide or quickly coats from other kids, here buying a new life for himself the court event. force him to start paying, which he did. He was always late. Yes, we love talking about those, but actually we didn't have it too bad. So we had just one bed and like it was like single by it, but small me and my brother, so me and my brother, I ve been one better tools to love, had told the and my sister
slab with my mom the I wouldn't have to base our kind of like marthy miss misquoted there that to those just one might that be. At this level eventually now I hope my was able to procure another bad. So we know we will leave me a two room apartment at the time. So was here, Those who here to review is you mean to battles there wasn't like that import. Poland was just too rose was to do so so me and my brother- were sleeping in one room and my mom with my sister- was sleeping in another. That would lead to find new rules, but you know that such a big for us. It was like a wii if our own apartment, because there were a lot of people that did I have even that there people living with parents and grandparents, in the studio bigger studio just so you anything. We have a bicycle. to go outside the become a bathroom, so this is
it was the distillation after the second world war, and also socialism economy. That growing poland even deeper into an input people into slavery. on top of this. On top of all this, we are often hungary that local Read my mother got if she was early and lucky enough, you can by more than one, though, for the time people be violent. If you tried this minute were forced to learn ways to be less hungry solution, I love her. Brothers were not a big french rise from potatoes. I learned how to taste. It was what a good eye to spot the school children of wealthy communist party members by their sandwiches. Yet these are some looking sandwiches too, while my siblings were eating thin sandwiches with butter or margin. If there is no butter, only often only sprinkle with sugar. These kids were eating. There's with fresh meat, The best fixes your dressing smeared across their smug faces. There were two ways
get your hands on things. In those circumstances, money in violence, since we were poor I used violence was, is where I learned that violence works. If it did Violence didn't work for you and make you didn't reply enough of it I'll be. The first I was a bit of a bully as a kid. Yeah. You know this is something that you just have to help yourself as much models again and the time. I was a kid I envy these younger than these kids for creating this, like a nice taste the sailor which, as you know like when I look at that, celebrate in the soul I figure out that I just out just like to try at least sandwich, like that. You know we never had one. Sir. I just work up grabbed the sandwich. Stop the guy a bait bite it a bit and I was hooked- has lacked ok, so this is what's going to happen next year, tomorrow you will bring to sandwiches and if you don't, you read
I guess, I'm we teach us attitude so once and that what is for me one is for you for pilot You can just tell me that you are growing up. I would pay in front of everybody. I think every keaton, you hey, you are growing up, so you need to eat more to eat more like I maybe because our who was very bland within ever adverted tasty food so I do want to eat. I didn't eat a lot, so I'm always get what you need to eat. you growing up that either by the skeet hey, you know, just tell him you growing, you need more eat from what I find out, these spotters would have, let me say, yeah. How will it is eating. Well, you know he's came to sound, which is now every break, but did you know that he was eating just while and then I was sure with me so simple. Funny that the are not funny, but you know you hear people that lean towards socialism. Oh said they they're so anti rich. You know they. They think all the rich people have all the money,
and here you are talking about It- was the communist kids, the kids with edward had the communist party can arise at pairs. Those are the rich kits because they do so everything from everybody else. Perhaps this is how it works. I mean remember the socialist economy. Very inefficient. Just does not work in there and so people are. people, whether you are companies dumber than how How well meaning communist? You are you're going to help yourself. You know you can help these so you're, going to help yourself here and you're going to go, bring there so people can eat, but at least you can eat and this is how people are starving and that it should does not work. fast forward again, I'm fast forwarding through the book there, so many good stories and insightful you want to know what it was like get the book. So you have something to us. You can understand what what ism does to two people into a country
fast forward, but you say by the time I was entering eighth grade. My mom can afford to support me by then almost thirteen years old plus two children, so she did the only thing she could do and send me to live with my father yeah. She did my choice. I mean there was a we're growing. The food was spain safe and we haven't we're leaving this little tiny apartment with two rooms. Soldier was won by a little apartment she had to do something and though she just some italy with a father so from the study because he showed I've heaping mackey there? Like is already, but he was told his wife at the doubt that the cure the wagged his head that he's coming with me, basing their schwab on the doorstep he just now well he's to leave with us. the house, could you laugh
no way I was like. I just wanted punched at night That's it that's crazy here, when you only thirteen years yeah yeah, I don't know about you but I just remember that my mom, She knows that we needed there. That needs to happen so kind overlooked. Swell my pride, look at hair and just say nothing and walked past what was your was your dad's living arrangement better. Did they have like a nicer apartment and stuff yeah because they have actually three rooms? So here, though, there was one room, the bigger room and two smaller bedrooms, so So when I walk into the family he's finally she had a son already from previous marriage. so they kind of let me have one of the rooms and they both stained, the beagle because it was important, those not the division between bedrooms. There was no battles, there are rules so we have the one room. You have one room and we
father and his wife had another room, and I thought this like great that'll be awesome. The only thing that you know what will happen. There was not quite so. Now this were used this, where you started learned fight for the first time and we're out of them. Are you I already ready day there were. I start I do right before I went to my father, so I just the police boxing club, I was my body was first thing in our we good at it. Actually, I was so who So what kind of motivated me It was like I didn't, have a father so that that that the coach At one time when I have described a b doublet of the kids, who beat up my younger brother broke my hand came to visit me and there kind of like see down, not talk to my mother, talk to me and I was like holy shit, I can't. I must not disappoint these men. How much just do the best I can so
beating peacetime, beating people up with the gloves of their because I wanted to peacefully me. Oh here is an idea that how good I was So when I went towards over I was already pretty good either good pancho look quite few people out like that guy who bid my brother, does actually finally story, and I guess I was always I was left, but a strong being, I was just bully because I thought then that my Mother is a teacher, so who's going to challenge me, sir. That has never hesitated, but somebody somebody up and of course these are warranted you always but a body Just from the very beginning. I remember when I was being bullied when I was a kid, so does not act Come to my mom ce you beat became audible, something there's like I didn't rather it. So I too few
thing out. So I found I get big steel pipe up with my book case when I was going to schools from school because gives us to follow me and just my ass sometimes like that around the blogger J push mean that in today that the interests of the apartment and beat me up there so Later they what's that spreading that those keys follow me in my apartment somehow don't show up. The ambulance shows up take them out, because it was me with my pipe had it worked yo the same again: violence works. We just need to apply enough of it, so so so that that that's what I started it, so I was over the fighting by this time, but then so from the pie by you, move on boxing gloves and then there's become calibrating well known as a great few guys and I d have to wear the pipe either. Nor did I tell you what some of these pipes guys
Why pipes it's like! I I really the low because they didn't they didn't move when I later- and this is where the word spread out- that way when they follow me in the in the into the apartment, they don't come out, so they left me alone. They go. I typed. I thought I had saved right away, but the lower. Like me, I definitely got quiet so when you're, when you're in or around warsaw, you start, you know you're kind of just like in some sort of almost extortion. Hanging guys get money. Things happen, workers I had no fear of of keats, especially after the boxing think housing I'm looking for the challenge, and I remember I think I started off rank food because I was always try to be, like my mom told me. Well, I'd be dubbed the girl in the first great and accuracy.
Strong and we're just starting for his great they. Just I don't know a dragon. This gap is your girlfriend and the I don't need those thinking girlfriend I will governor cake should just fall they carry have today. emergency school to their noses room, and I was as proud as like yeah yeah. He knows it's like how old are you like says x, sixty six going seven, so they told you you had a girlfriend and you he doesn't even girlfriend. I have no girlfriends. I don't need that and- happened. My my work in the same school. At the same time this, whether you, I was a kid I was born. I was like my shit instinct, but So I'm sitting this on my memorials in the class got quite just like looking a site that doesnt doesn't seem good, sure got story. She would sit on the glass she looked at me. See. Who did you hurt?
and I just I think you ought to say, but than tat cause like that That will mean that a girl right there that girl so my mother look at their at this girl. She still crying that so she was or bruised between her legs. Apparently. She put me by my ear is very common. Poland teaches you to do it. Just pull the eu and pulling out of the bed. She put me back my ere. She stand in front of the class she poor might bends. Thou is just a spanking me. and some superhuman so hard and so long ass, you live broke down, stop crying, you know, you're, to fight fight the guy's fight, but you don't ever touch a girl and so there was it. I mean the embarrassment in my pants down my but read from the land and the sound it'll being spent in front of the whole class in it. And there was not enough to because when I came home on that thing repeat itself, but I never
to go after that, those like those, grain. In my in my head do not you cannot do that, and that was just up there there was no so embarrassing, and I think I learned the lesson forever from whether it was well worth so too, and so I was trying to be very nice guy, and so, though, somewhat one of the guys. I do know that then dynamics. What did the gangs working is so the time. So one of them was how does one of the girls were when they took him out turn out to be? He was one of their those those those guys, this girl little gangs. So they again they came to me and said you gonna, this what's gonna happen. We're gonna buy as the wine gonna get started the wind from these guys, but and then it would be to have over by the from these gangs going to teach you and then would you be on
I say, I'm fine with the wind by the you're gonna hate me I'll, get you back. Look you out. And so they can have led me, along by the very rights they were doing the same thing I did Emily metallic. There was the same, so I say like okay, so am I bring you the wine and by those? If you try to hit me out bid you up and really bad so they they didn't. We just going to wine. Let's go extort that this time that the sandwiches- let's get started away from these, and these guys over just targeting guys and say you bring the wine no a little push the gave you ties. Then he brings the. What we punched him again and then just leave him alone, but the dead. What were they told these guys disport victims? You know you can be abuse and they're, not if- wine. We just call the same guy, who just be that who brought us a wiser more wine,
so he was willing to go out to us. I was waxwork fourteen fifteen years also whether the drinking is smoking and I was bad- Can we not good person out there? What I mean? I was not good person, the time yeah, that's your your deftly hadn't down the wrong path. Again, this is you. You go into these kind of details in a book really did it. It is fascinating to fast forward a little bit here, just a touch base again on the on on what you're doing with with the communist situation. When the government executed citizens. They were called back it's an insurrectionists and enemies of the state people who are trying to up and the successful socialist system societal values had changed and the thinking became that these people should be isolated from society in some key is executed for appeal,
using socialism and the official Communist party line show trials. were publicly prosecuted a lot of argues against said. Insurrectionists were completely made up evidence was made up and there was no opportunity to challenge the charges People were harassed by state security, police and look we humiliated. They were isolated from friends and business. The commune regime, was relentless in pursuit of dissidents. They did not need to have any evidence they would manufacture evidence. They were their work. was victims to this, day. No one knows how many poles continued secret graves are sorry, day, no one knows how many and pulls continue to find seeker graves of opponents of socialism, communism in Peru courtyards, forests and other obscure places to this day. rules are searching for
the graves of their world war, two heroes who disappeared or outright murdered by the communists upon their return from the war. Yes, that's something that I mentioned at the beginning here when we start talking about it. This is socially state persecuted the opponents of the with people who they saved could be opponents, could be something that you just you just came by from the west and you witness too much you witness how prosperity the west is There was enough to put you in the least and then, if you are still speaking out and talking about that, you could disappear I think one of the last graves that day there was discovered in poland was what that might be like, I think, a year ago, I believe when they found and there's not all they still looking for. There are still so many citizens missing from some these times and they know so there will be a ever found at the time, be begun
there was not. There were no computers, though not the science was not there to help find these people finding them now and they are still looking for many of them, but the socialism you, earlier to about this fake charges, this. Vice, yes, they were all would branded. None of these people were sitting there because, for political reasons, according to socially state, be disgrace for socially state to keep political prisoners so they were all criminals, though I was now. I was never right, political prisoners, opera says you broke the law, and what was the long? Were you can't print? you can have every speech. Basically they in safely spear. They say what say you violated the the tax code or eggs violated the printing law that we had for. Yes, the government distribution right, what else? So there was always some low low too to put in prison order and slave you,
and this is something that it stays with me today when I see sometimes while I don't want to go there, but the something that we need to be very careful because is easy to brown people, spies, brand people, criminals and then prosecutes them, and they will not even have a supporting society a view earth if you are able, brand them as criminals just that they were that the dick if was exercising free speech where there was no free speech in poland, the tiber train Speak your mind. people they know about it. There was no being told that way. That person was exactly or why the person who was imprisoned thirdly, the spice door, but they violate the law, the violate these violate debt, and they are not political prisoners. There isn't those of there were very at a month. The socialist regime was very adamant that
There are no political prisoners in social state. They all criminals. I was criminal rats disturbing fast forward, a little bit after my father. Kick me out back to my mom. I thought I would be done with the upheavals for awhile upheavals, being given transfer back and forth the back and forth had began upsetting I've been upsetting and stressful, and I was excited to go by my friends classmates in nineteenth. Five, but I was also drinking and smoking and I decided to take up karate after getting a taste boxing in warsaw. I was in a lot of trouble for with my mom, to say the least. So then you so that you start train in karate is yes. There was something else so fascinated by this date that those the first ever Joe Laguna initiative. They're gonna cut out the cushion dissection What was creed at so I see I need to join it. I just lost
thankfully it so I wasn't good with my pencil pan. So I just fake my idea, just think. Might I change my date of birth and I say not in those kind of the queue cushion got, grin and cure shaken is sat a savage karate, its brutal. kind of yeah you come over. I ragu, but I tell you that at least at the beginning, everytime I was going to do to training session I was. I was a bit nervous. I was I was not going. My toes because I know up will be helped and you know, there's just like we were happy, though, but even just the metals that they train. As you know, you have to and I ve no think that you take the sanctions that position and they kick. You in there so much so. How did you just fly like some? Some of us make eight. I was but a light guy, so quite obviously making somersault and volume phase in my niece because from the cake
or you only on the floor and their instructors. They rumble you stole my since that, but after wanna get used to it Those like I'm tough, going to give up on this, and will it? and we're actually becoming very effective. I was super wendy, my boxing skills with egg now with the cakes and some sweeps. So I was like I've been able on the street and I liked it. You you're! U from everything when I would watch you fight, you have a very and it might seem natural it might have. When I watch you like seem natural because you been for a long time, but you you clearly have a natural gifts for fighting like when I would watch you throw up just watch, I throw kicks. When I see you hit people or kick people I'd be like out the eu look like a really good fighter- and you are good fighter, but just the fact
if you are doing this at a time when really a lot of people weren't doing this and going out- and I know you- you spent a lotta time in the streets fuzzy, and I have no doubt that you are on immutable street as at the time, is not especially with these techniques that people didn't know at the time of in poland. Yeah those savage What were you, how big were you back? There I was five without fighting for the championship of point those in tackling. I was fighting in hundred and sixty nine pounds. How's light. but you know I was beating big people because, like you, though small guys, they they should go pick defied use it. He was. There was no one to say I'm with kick your ass in the special you small, so that their most of the people of life, both at the time there were bigger What does that easier to? You know that their? What is its topple, they would like wobbly more reliably and I was able to gather asked
I was beat up to anything that does not always I would have ratified, but do. We have that, like a challenge, how many files you can go without losing one, and I think I went through like a thing like almost close, a hundred and by those like a sleek fight, so so there, those others. Also too, that we are picking up. This fight would not like at that time without that that the partner that like became that kind of competition there was there were just picking up. The fight was not like people looking tried to find us, but we use it as a training, though, that we pick up these fights not for there was no cameras at the time, so we use logic. we go and forty five of us from the club, those what I was doing tat Wonder when I came to different city switch from cook artekil cushion to take on the, so we're doing groups and sound like okay. So with we, where to find people to beat up like it, I will just drinking beer somewhere or places
rough rough places in poland would like wherever off here, even a rough. So we go up there and we just pay the guy and then no the guy up and then we get together, have a drink and talk about it we do have a camera sec today you can If you are, you can say, ok critic, so we could take each other's united, debrief deeply vs, and so are you craig was kind of good, but you keep the guy the shoulder you didn't, he came the head, you actually kick him up like there was no effective so that these debris I them and then we're going you re enacting it do so also creating how we were there, aids and will become a really good at it, so tat. We can so good to the point that eventually we stop single people up world for more at one time, so it was like I remember, and that the new spreading due to the people I dislike, because
about these guys if they work good, I'll, just walk away and they ve happened. That spirit could recognise nice us because we have a lot of people, but there were some people well that, especially if they were two or three of them, so we just woke up to the guy who just grabbed a beer of his can spit in and get but you're not gonna fight right, especially to three people around, so he was there, but dead. You know like eventually we ever another of these people to do so. we found somebody like these. We sometimes the rule was whose paths that group wants to beat beat up then he's the first one to do it by the was, we start running out of people. who had to draw that drove, lots: strolls yeah, who is going to be businesspeople, and this is how we train and the we find out was very effective, which now a lot of detection. weeks, that later master into
the bus to also fight in the in the dodging the gene because It was less stress up there. It was like everything by the rule. You know it's not like you're going to have fun, somebody's gonna stop you, but on the street you have to be careful about some genuine in them. Do you go to some details, you you guys retrain and like to three hours a day. Yes, workin out yeah, you do in everything right too, to be ready to scrap in the streets. Meanwhile, you say this as I grew older. My understanding of what it meant to live in communist state grew with me. I started: I to voice of america, the BBC radio free europe years before without anyone knowing I begin tuning and shortly after my running with the state security police after I'd question, might sure about being forced to learn russian. I had been told but these radio channels by my mother's brother- and this is you- tell the story, don't uncle, as my uncle Adam and she's the one that you know showed You have to listen to these ban radio stations so
This is where you start seeing sort of the outside perspective of what's going on. The rest of the world and what is actually happening to you all in poland, yes again it, but I didn't have a father the time. So I was looking up to my ankle and he was a big guy. He was he liked to be. People to do so would accelerate always idolizing He was like that you wouldn't want to mess with him, but he told me about it because- and I wish you the story he may be done by the police being kidnapped from the street by the police. So I he told me how to listen to his because he say what you here is. Is of propaganda, and it is the explanation is censored. You don't hear the true. You don't hear everything you know into outside side of things god for voice of america in other slacks, you could isn't that the title for listening to it, bbc
Radio free europe- and you know what this actually phalanges today- that digress resolute, but that will came to america. a virtue with I'll move to do it I leave now what I leave the debt. Is it radio free, a free europe, radio station there- it doesn't is not active anymore but this is what those transmissions hours listening to was from, and I was able who actually visit that radio station Almost like a muso where, where, where was the radio station located in mason, ohio real so I was able to do it because he can see it so for people, there were most legged technical curiosity for me, it was much more that amazing and this is where you started given information
just so much there's you we're. We kind take it for granted. the view of the fact that we can get information. Then again you gotta pay attention the information that you're getting cause a lot of the information that you're getting is screened and is being censored so that stuff is happening. People- in banned people, get version band people get suppressing. All this was going on. Right now and you gotta pay attention to it. You do do talk about this. I wanted to bring up this one section at you. You talk about. The book is one of the greatest examples of socialist censorship, and Oppression of information is found with the story of captain vetoed pilecki, Messina right, pulaski Polanski. Yes, in eighteen. Forty captain Polanski one of the public, army. Resistance leaders volunteer, to allow himself to be captured by the gestapo in order to infiltrate auschwitz caught concentration camp. Yes,
some say that again everybody this guy, he's he's. Polish resistance leader and he volunteers, to be captured so he can go into voluntarily into the auschwitz concentration camp. Yes, it was there that cap n polanski, organize the resistance movement which included hundreds of inmates. He created the report that was smuggled out detailing the horrors and atrocities occurring at the camp. This port made it in the allies hands, but it fell on deaf ears. Captain bill, let's keep asking downwards and later fought the warsaw. uprising in nineteen forty, for he was a great was patriot and a great inconvenience to the socialist regime in poland and nineteen forty seven. He arrested by the communist state security, police and charged with anti polish activities, he was then subjected to torture and a show trial. Captain Pilecki,
officially executed by the sole polish socialist government in nineteen forty eight and was buried in an unmarked grave somewhere in poland, They still confine where they are still. The poles are still looking for him he's a national night national hero in poland and this He was in resistance that poland and doings. What war has the largest. They did that the big that delay Jesus an army in the entire europe, so he was part of it. The task was now there because they were already reports coming that something is going on in these concentration camps and that we need to that that atrocities but they need somebody to witness to rep write reports. And the assembly's report smuggle these reports back so for hame chance to escape the auschwitz,
What what about asleep but he'd so based he volunteer for there one way mission and did he accomplished. He sent the he sent the report's he described what is going on there and of course they she tried to escape with your success, for he they escape, but was but inconvenience for the social state because he was fighting on the wrong side. He was fond of you fighting on the I cite he was not of the soviet union army. He was not part of their Soviet union, This means that a sponsor by soviet union, so cute, this especially with his courage, speaking out against the the the socialism was very convenient. So he was hopefully arrested and as many of these heroes at the time he was promptly arrested, sentenced to death in the show, trial and executed
and he was for europe. At a high point, Poland became free hears rehabilitated was exonerated surely that today the arrest its places and schools name after him in poland. That just shows you how how horrible and evil this it is evil. You notice just we just throw something here too, because IRA, even I remember there were a lot of monuments. They were totally, destroyed because they were not supporting social is narrative. monuments of freedom from monuments. From my previous poland, when poland was not I'll show you know there was a shrewd the hasty was so torp and salt wasted dead. Didn't even know about some of these heroes, or about the police, squadrons police Debbie. Squabbles fighting bottle of britain. You know that
All of this was suppress here and there a little but show up buddy was mostly varies very heavily censored, but you know that during a bottle of britain, the most effective fighter squad was polish through your three there was movies made about it now. But at that time, being a member of the squadron could be- could mean that centres in poland fast forward a bit by early nineteen, eighty one after the communist government raised food and fuel prices and lowered working wages. Solidarity had a membership of about ten million people and represented most of the polish workforce. This is when my mom became involved with the trade union and the time in any warsaw pact country than an organ organization was formed independently from the regime with real actions in everything. through the union strikes began. Bringing
entire industries to a halt state run. Companies were losing money and they were deeply in to the west to boot, desperate the affair he's tried to strike a deal with the union's the agreement at the end of the day was to allow the trade unions to exist in exchange for fewer strikes, it was just a ruse in preparation for martial law to take down the first independent trade union of the warsaw pact, At that point I was more firmly entrenched with the anti communist solidarity movement. Regulars regularly stay late at the headquarters at low It's must saying that right, Lafayette. Would you but a lot, that's how you propose not Now that I was in my we twenties. I had a lot more flexibility to do what I wanted within constraints imposed by the regime, of course- historic day on december thirteenth nineteen. Eighty one hour ten in the evening peoples coming to tell us of their parents and
the family members who were being arrested throughout the city, the states, dirty. Police had come to their homes. your family members were gone. We knew that something big was about to happen. We breathe, our ourselves, for whatever was to happen next peoples calling your friends and other countries outside of poland trying to. Organize routes of escape and chains of communication. In case things went badly for us. Someone the h q turned tv on mentioning some. about a government message being broadcast general harrison, yeah yeah yeah yeah recitals he generally emphasised scheme is not yet a reality. The soviets who is more soviet and polish appeared on the screen and he was sort of like at this time- was sort of the the the military leader of Poleos militarily their appalling. Yes, he looked grave. in full uniform with the polish flat, looming over his shoulder.
the national council, in accordance with the provisions of the constitution, has introduced martial law throughout the country. He read this is the last chance to pull the country out of crisis and save it from integration kept those ways, excuse for something, so The mantra was that about uprising to happen. People are about to over ready to over, Oh, the socialist legitimate government was never let it my government that was never. There was tat, they were there. the elections were a fraudulent but the so that there was the mantra and to save falling from the made him an upheaval and possible soviet invasion. general yodel ski had to do that. this dispute and my opinions absolutely bologna. This bullshit there was just another attempt
of the last attempts to so to do, to save socialism in poland besides They understood not only in poland but in other warsaw pact countries these socialism, housing, poland, It will fall everywhere else and it did and could soviet union, later the ninus, but dead was there they impose marshmallow. Those one is just one night they arrested These were running start surrounding up at midnight. They said, running up, people live on the matter scales in every city. Every town in poland was well organised and it I remember that's how they come. Patients were caught in poland telephone lines at midnight when blank that tv when thou there there was no radio stations, nothing they'll, just blank nothing. people died to people in emergency. Having a the tat, there was no way to call all the time was shut down because they would
to save poland from in surgeon for the insurgents polish people who opposing who are trying to ruin opponent this how they gave you to death you say it is believed that over twenty five thousand patriotic polish citizens were arrested one night december, thirteenth, eighteen, eighty one yes and yes this The thing is that at the time their socialist state, was very adamant about it. These people are not addressed at the arrogant. Tell we don't keep them in prison. We keep them internment camps where they are safe and do it for their safety do it for the safety of poland for safety of parts. Not that didn't they did than a crime. This is They are not prisoners, they are internees, but they were potentially dangerous to the state. They could
be dangerous to the state, so we just hit up and and color out of them: send them too occasion, homes and authorities, that's how they explain, but the reality that we just rested throat and jails in prisons around the pond, fast a little bit when the present, the united states, ronald Reagan, announced sanctions against the communist regime. On december twenty nineteen one poles, including myself, were cheering yet further infuriating the communists and socialists. This is where The phrase was core coined Maria theresa, the wars, the better, the worse, the better, that's how he satan polish. She does something, in libya, the shrinking likely that wants to buy the worse the better. It meant that the more sanctions put in place to ruin socialism in common with communism, the better for poland, poles and freedom, anything that even remotely her communist was cheered by the polls, the polish
people were ready for any sacrifice just to get rid of their hated oppressive socialism, father worked so hard to put in place. Those of who escaped or who are left out of the mass arrests, met on the street The days following and discussed what we due to resist the blatant show of terror and authoritarianism. The country fate, the countries faced with news blackouts and told censorship, so we decided it was going to be important for somebody to tell the truth of what was going on. We found one guy who had a typewriter and another who had a printing press. So me, and a couple of my friends decided to report on what is happening on the ground. In the back of my mind, I kept thinking about what would happen if we got caught being found, then unregistered, typewriter or god forbid, a printing press? Usually spending some time in prison. Minus paper, was really only a double sided single page leaflet that we produced, but the message is it contained were dangerous enough that I could have been imprisoned. After printing a few hundred copies, we walk the streets pressing the censored newspaper.
Those are the uncensored newspapers in was hands and leaving them in high traffic carries the city while desperately hoping one of the socialist sympathisers would now turn us in full the implementation of martial law on that december thirteenth, nineteen, eighty one in my city, thousands of us, would turn off our city lights every month. On the same day that started martial law to show solidarity against the regime whole city blocks will be completely dark, except for a single candle in every window. Twenty. Thirty forty apartment buildings. All in a row, each twenty to thirty six the tall each window the candle in it. If you didn't you a candle in a window, you could assume the person living there was someone who supported worked for the regime I'll, never yet the sight it was one. powerful and beautiful demonstrations with the pulse. Link, solidarity with each other and against the regime in overwhelming numbers you that
amazing. It still brings almost tears to my eyes, thinking about remembering that so pause, worked in the end. The means of protest anything They was criminals, anything you you you just they're socialists and communists did not like comedies my father, could put. In prison I'll get you killed. So walls found the way they day on the day that the then marshmallow was imposed every month on thirteenth. They tumbled, it's off in their homes. They did so. You can use the entire city almost black out Single What you got kids like since invoking lightened the window, so there was such a powerful message and what they tell to that in a post, applause. What propaganda was saying
millions were supporting the solidarity and freedom against socially state. There was not right. Would you haven't the news and press that is a fringe of society is only very few people who want crazy concept. freedom or something that is just just crazy in this very few of them, but he Then you can today streets and can save yourself. You know, there's like tat thousands of people who post, that socialist terror and oppression, so there was puddings piling up. This is how you can people. Can I guess when ever think is taken away from them. They slew protest and they he'll, show that what what really is happening so we that those actually interesting I was amazed to read about ass for dollar, but some resistance figures. I knew quickly became very loud and outspoken, creating their own circles that people flocked Two new organisations were established every
day in just kept getting bigger and bigger. We didn't realize that some of these organizations were actually being established by the state security police who collected names and information and were able to arrest opponents of so of journalism in one fell swoop, because my group was very small. No one thought to try and join us. Let alone infiltrate us. We kept alone. profile and covertly distributed our resistance, literature out in the streets, I'm sure police had been following us for a long time, but they didn't get any one until early nineteen. Eighty to when I was walking, toward the printing press down a tiny little street. I happened to cup and noticed. Someone was watching me. He was made a hundred yards away and staring directly at me, of course, that was strange, but I kept walking and got to the building. climb the stairs to the third floor. Suddenly I heard footsteps thundering over my head in a bunch of doors flying open. I had it eight or nine guns pointed out my head. It really. like an old school police stand off, they eventually gum. The ground and handcuffed me. I say down there with boots on my back next to my room,
Distance friends who were already handcuff prior to me showing up they were for others to show up, but no one did the states Please hold us off to their headquarters that same night, they strip me of everything except my clothes. I was wearing and carried me off to a dark, smelly, called prison cell. Even for all my trouble making over the years, I've never seen an actual prison cell close up I'd only ever been in a holding cell. This was far worse wreaking of pay shit mould there was there were people, huddled somewhere in the dark, but I couldn't see anything I stood until someone called out hey you just sit down somewhere feel my way around with my hands on the walls blindly managing to find it are barely blindly managing to find a spot on the wall, among doesn't other people eventually when they turned the lights on, I was able to see, was a small room with steel doors with a raised. in the middle. That was more like a low pedestal. A few people could lie down on at a given time and they were food rations, but they were so small. I was soon painfully hungry, apparently
Others want a similar state, one prisoner, a real mean. Looking guy came to me sometime after that and said I'm going to eat your food today. I wasn't about give him the chance, not even a slim one. I knocked him out. and when he was laid out unconscious on the ground I carefully lifted his upper lip using might knuckles punched is to offer front teeth, ended. Drive the point home now he's going to mess with me in here? I pulled the knocked out. From his mouth put them in my pocket, and then his food yeah. That was a you know, I'm still kind of like I'm still sad that they lose those teeth, because I was hoping to one day that might get lakers and curious, but just They didn't one of the soldiers lately discover the teeth. Yeah. I was hungry, but those This is something that we also need to look out. watch out for that is that the methods that totalitarian states operate there. a very small things that you wouldn't think is a torture by the tears,
Was it so? Basically in poland, the secret services are sick of police or There were just limiting rational and keep you called. So that was not like just die of it by there was enough to come of age it's you and slowly. Dismay well you're, the fences. Eventually you start talking. So there was very common technique and actually to mention the same technical was use on achieve gallop here in the air by sea. I ass in the end in the break in the california. What cold and lack of food? yes called and the limited food rations, so he was always called healing. Allow him, where one close and their food rations were very small again Not the russians to starve to death is just enough to make you I'm comfortable out, but out of balance and this is actually while describe in one of their research papers. You can find on the official. cia website,
forget it was the name of it. Basically does it techniques. Of that use by around soviet secret police against political prisoners, so they was what was described there. At the time I didn't know there was a technique. I will just kind of agree. The guy told me he said he's going to eat. I fear that they no and I knock him out, but but now, since I was when I came to amerika about freedom, our land. Are these techniques? really catherine position that these torture very simple but were conducted in poland on against political prisoners You do end up, Someone asked you what you in for an you say: solidarity. Then they know that they will help you out right now, you from kind of fine sombre in their during my time in the state security police, h q at loads, did you say it's like woods? Is that what you said? Would you would you
That's sector has how you pronounce it much yeah would yeah, but dude l is like a huge. Air with the slash? So this is how you propose, but I say to you: time to my to my wife, she I says like language someday leather, something I female change, jesse Where is the lots of easy this? How you spell it wrong to say: would you then yeah I don't have all remember. Why don't they dispel it? W o o deasey? I e that I pronounced right it's at its alone easy allowed easy by this. Oh with that little atmosphere of a little occur point about it and that, and that makes it ooh looks Lucy geology aright, was interrogated for anywhere from two to times per day where they asked me. The same questions open over while prisoner the police, radio, my apartment and destroyed everything they kept me there for three. We,
asking the same questions repeatedly. Sometimes beating me when I didn't answer the way they wanted or didn't answer at all. At the end of my stay, they announced they had everything they needed to put me in jail for life, and then I was soon going to the big prison that night: without explaining anything further. The police marsh me out two, a m in handcuffs the police moving in and under the cover of darkness, they called me out into the street and shoved me too lack of a civilian car where we going. I asked when we get there don't matter to you any more before crossed my mind that maybe they're going to kill me. I prepared myself to fight getting my blood up. While I sat handcuffed in the back seat of the car. I knew was a lost cause, but I would not go quietly my plan. I hope we knock out the two cops with a good kick when we got out and make a run for it was not but I had no other option the whole time. I was brainstorming, they drove for almost four hours in and out of town over
over embassy until six a m when they brought me back to the cell at each q, when I got back confused by the chain. Plants and jittery for my adrenaline. I some of my cellmate were crying. They fought. I've been taken out in shock. And they were the last see that's where social he's works? They were I'd be the next. They were sure they'd be next as the last people, to wit, me alive. Communism doesn't like witnesses, drew up. I didn't even understand their there that that that the stress I put on my fellow summit's at the time because in the house in a way, I thought they might could be shot but I didn't think they're with worry about that. That's somehow until I came back and they explain it to me why they are so. None of us we're guys with tears in her eyes and say: do you think for coming behind, because without that we are legs, because that is where they live witnesses. Who saw me so
what happened? Well, he was taken by the police. Never came back in the day, what afraid genuinely afraid for their lives and that's how socially state operates the terror, the terror? fast forward a little bit for weeks after my arrest, I was transported to an intermediate prison. The police investigation was done now, were gathering materials and evidence to build a case against me, the absence of fashion or any proof was no obstacle for the communist regime. If they, evidence. They would make it up, but even I knew they had a bunk case against me. I still and have an attorney to help fight it. Going up alone against a corrupt justice system usually never ends well, I was initially play. with common criminals, the worst of the violence more than a single cell. Some of them were snitch is for sure the prison walls were made of concrete, reinforced rebar the whole place was cold and quiet mould was everywhere. It was huge, the windows
very high and the walls with bars, keeping us in an shields on the outside the windows, preventing us from being able to look out how many were there how many of us there were and for what crimes was anyone's guess the prison restrictions. Intention was to break me down by putting me in the worst sell the biggest guy of the group, try to strong army into conforming to the cells, imaginary hierarchy of control, of course, deny and well for him. I applied a significant lesson. I learned on the street. You finish the fight when you are done with a fight, not it tells you he gives up if you stop submission he could turn the tables and take you down despite disguise, scream, so stop! I didn't. I kept beating him until he stood screaming, and stop moving fell asleep. Here that that works, I mean this is something they lead on the street very quickly. You know when you fight me like that the ring, my when you're fired on the street. You fight
when until you decide that is in our view, the lead and even even small claims of that this I can control anything specially, Not when went to end the fight, if you let him control that before you totally destroyed the guy human. Indeed. This often happens to us. You know island outweigh the thing I got beat up like so either stop until the guy's not moving. He may scream The more stop! Stop I'll give album, I'm your friend now we know whether the haiti there with you my friend when you fell asleep, and then you know when when we bring you are, you would be ok and debts, That's how it works, It is made, as I know it doesn't sound nice, but is just safety for my own safety. If I stopped beating this guy when you say, stop stopping the value of amby nice that most likely hues. found a way to I'm your ought to keep
its position as the data that top guy, in the south. So, couldn't allowed them so that they like. I love to the mob until they don't move when they don't move with any usually when they wake up. They just like they either go, Oh me they cannot present. They just will hold themselves in the corner. Somebody said the european. Not just talking about you're fighting prowess earlier and also We don't I just remembered from when you and I would train. Is you like real explosive muscle. like some people they have good endure and some people their super explosive strong. You have super explosive, strong muscle, fibre selected. Do you I'll sit here? Thinking about this do like they did he's gotta. It- is going to do so, but you and I can just imagine your full force like explosion of your body, that sets
that's why they fell asleep very quickly, usually one day when the one step ahead of the kind of that you know that all of us have that power, just sometimes some of us in here in amerika has different. I would know now I'm different, I'm american. Now I dont go and beat people out, I wouldn't do it, but at that time there was just a necessity. That was, as you have to do, what you have to do to survive. specially presented when there was Britain place also it held me enter this again like I was saying earlier some of this stuff. When you read it it's I used to be heavier. This is one of those things that I I was reading it. I was thinking damn. It says the discomfort of prison can't be stated beyond the outright violence. There were millions of little things that make life miserable for all of us, one of them Things was that you couldn't just lie in bed You had either sit down on the floor or on the stool, but you could not be
on the walls or the bets there were four Its personnel to bumpers, however, is not meant for the ten or more men that were actually in small cell. When I To write that it think much of its role- and I was so tired and sore from my weeks at the state security police headquarters that I decided to lie down, even though the other prisoners told me I should the prisoner said: don't do that they will fuck you up screw that I said, I'm I'm tired and I'm gonna lie down my so much mysel mates were smiling and smoking at each other. In anticipation of what was to come, I ignored them. starting to settle into the bed preparing for some relaxation sure enough as soon as as soon as the bed, which was little more than a wooden cock creaked under me, the guards came down on us. My rest in time was up. They pulled me out of my new cell and started work me over. I could hear their punches, echoing throughout the prison as they like, did on me? They beat me up and then, through we back in my when they were done with me.
I thought for sure this was the time when I laid down. They would leave me alone. What would you think? Otherwise I mean they just beat you advertise you just you cannot. You're, really sore you. In the cell. So well, why will is well, you need to lay down or affect I was naive to think because I could barely sit straight that they would surely leave me alone. Let me recover in my bed and were not an act of defiance. Not yet. However, it happened again this time they people with rubber night sticks in such a waste might leave many too many bruises. This method. Beating this myth, methodical, beating, included, multiple hit me kidneys and I ended up pissing blood as a result. Once again, they me back and myself. This time also one hundred per cent sure you're not going to mess up. It is impossible for me to lay down. I could not sit or stand or stay standing, so I went straight to bed. they're. Gonna leave me alone. I was wrong. They were not done with me. The cycle reappeared himself.
I you there was not the resistance of the time that was just stupidity. I didn't know in the matter I was there was never any present before was jailed, but something so. Why? Wouldn't I lay down I what's the what's the big deal and then when they beat me up, I assume that there's going to be well now I have excuse to lay down, so I keep doing it. But again at the beginning, it was not just because I was just the tavern resist wasn't resisting. Just one of the rest of the world, but the audits, manchuria here buddy stoner. He was in sere school and Apparently, no they give you like certain information that you're not supposed to divulge you're, not a house to tell em like don't tell him what you know where the front forces are some right, so they capture, em and sere school and their started alike beat in
and then they start no water board and there, like their water boarding there like we're in a friendly forces design. I dont know it so they they water, boredom or where the friendly forces out or know and then where the friendly force they water boredom again and again, and finally, they go admin. They stop and they're K. Dude like your decision, horrible you're, getting tortured for no reason. You just tell us where the french forces up. He goes. I forgot yeah. So it's the same thing. He wasn't resist. Everybody was just freaky the forgot where they were at so there you go sometimes better risk better, be it's not like heroic resistance. You just forgot some shit by leaving the funny thing. Is there going to be done with these cases like? Well, you, though, without you I can I can. I can lay down I mean I can do the same thing in all. We because they, let's be along eventually. This is so after so many beatings. They just like. Ok, so lay there below.
Being sore ended in comfortable. so he said the same thing: he lay on the opposite side. surely now begin just that those again ass it I'll fuck that I'm getting ready for another beating. Now they just leave me alone. They just grab the guy and a gimmick here, and these least I scream If the guy is like screaming, like a brother more than I can hear the beating up, they just had the doors, hopefully lucky minutes, throw him in the south. He gets up. Looks around okay you get the fuck out of this chair. That will sit so because you know he was like the captain up there, so he would throw people out of the chance. So those act four stools. So he said one stool from then on. I was laying the bed laughing wait. I was linked the by those loving my ass. He couldn't quite take the beings. yeah yeah. He could, I think they they gradually life, who I was a political prisoner even whether they that meet the love. He was
criminals of the dashing could kill him, with me just like that, I think their heads some kind of resources come on god it's there were another really, some of them. Didn't you hate us even through this propaganda that training were trained to I us they didn't some of them didn't but come on criminal. That out, I have no doubt that would kill him. You got look there, yet the book as all kinds of stories in here in an details about this For one point you get in trouble, I'm you get in trouble point. You spend two weeks in solitary confinement. You'll cage yeah. This title cage thing- I mean this later went to a cell had only an open window covered by a shield that kept me from viewing outside, but did nothing to keep the cold out. I was given a thin blanket. They fed me water, breton, bread, isolation of the hour and yeah, then then
this time. I was given a week again, you get in trouble. You're not compete. Allow your breakin shed your disobedient freaky sat of some over. There was just one the fear. If I fell, there it me alive there, so you just have to be there. You don't let you union to be that pretty much on the top. If you dont, then you'll have to submit to other people and haven't. I would never happen besides happen. Besides, I had enough skills and I had enough expertise not to let it happen, so it was yeah yeah you get this it's one time you get in trouble again. I was given a week of solitary confinement once again, but this time using the so called tiger cat yeah, yeah, yeah yeah take it for a moment. I wondered if there was a real actual tiger in the basement of the prison, but that was short lived when they walked me into the cell. I burst out with laughter it was so surreal within the cell room. They did indeed have a real cage. I look like a large dark. Cannot they could not understand what was so far and finding my human. The absurd situation did not endure me to the prison guards. It was so
to see this miss plates misplaced tiger cage within the walls cell within a cell, the stick age had a steel had steel bars because my farm in a low clearance. So I could stand upright my The two options were to sit or lie down on hard steel. They talk. me and my weak started. I didn't hate, solitary confinement, not completely was cold, dirty, dark it smelled and the only light in the room was always flickering are completely dark. I only had a boy get in a wooden slat for a bed, but at least I didn't have to deal with. The prisoners or guards for that matter. I spent only a few cold and uncomfortable days in solitary confinement before the prison I came in. I thought they would surprise and support. I thought Just send me back to my cell, to my surprise instead, they say were put to you a transport that gave me oz. Where am I going russia? Maybe we don't know?
yeah yeah, those automotive. Those voters, threats were for me because there was we knew that they were ready transports to go to soviet union. To kind of isolate, asked that the political up upon of socialism butter. There was a real fear and you'll see at the end of my book, those not only me but other activists, actually were talking about it. The andrew crests whiskey, who is he who is have he, sir exempt from his defence, against social regime the court the fence he talks about. They actually there were pollution that that such transports already could happen to be going to poland Reported the slovenian, so I was scared, so what's the next prison, you get centre bishop under russian border that so I actually our from myself. I could see the that, though, the russian side of the past the river. Ruby, a chauffeur present yeah. That's there! That's what I said,
and that with russian border quietly, russia, not least you say, was The fight is one of the harshest persons and in poland. Yes, for his nerves were separated by blocks of common criminals being indifferent location from the political prisoners. Prisoners also had more opportunity to interact with like minded prisoners. It became very educational environment. As we are sitting in prison with many intellectual members of polish society doctors, professors, physicists, economists and engineers, as well as other hard working. Polish patriots patron, We all share the same disdain for communism and socialism, one of the routine routines was to open the windows, eight p m and the entire prison sang patriotic polish polish that the state hate it night: entire prison blocks join together and singing songs about freedom and independence. These was carried into the small town and beyond the local, polish, population like to hear this patriot resistance. The guards tried to squash it dragging prisoners,
we from the windows, but we persisted as there were not enough guards to stop all of us and our determination was strong in a cold. We place like that. Morale was vital for a collective survival, I know this is something that when we, opened the windows hundreds of people start singing the same song. It was echoing, the small town were wearing over where where people are leaving and dead was dead, I didn't do anything about. There was not enough got so, there's not like you just stay there saying when they can. the south with it within the night stakes and all that stuff we're building the buyer, so there's no hame. Can you move away from the windows? I fuckin though, so we stay there and they have to drag us out. So it took a crew of people, drag each one of us and then have to move to another so in another, so so as soon as they leave ourselves, we just go back up. That is give singing so
that was really a for fora for suddenly the regime YAP. That sounds like a powerful effect. A witness to us, August thirteen nineteen. Eighty two we started a hunger strike for the recognition of our strong status as political prisoners. The regime has been hiding in denying for decades it they held political prisoner. The last thing we want to do is admit that the socialist state was holding political prisoners, especially at such a volatile time in polish history. Instead, their prey again. It was to show us all as criminals who committed com when crimes after certain point in our hunger strike, Once we wasted away a bit. The guard started force, feed us per prison regulations they would drag. in two separate rooms in the medical union tell us we had a choice. They could either shovel pipe down our throats enforced, feed us or we could eat swallow one around either way we had to eat most of us doctor.
Guns and said no, that is what they wanted to hear, the feeding procedure was to bring the prisoner in strap them too. Wooden chair and shut. a corrugated feeding to down the throat it looked more. a vacuum to feeding to like it, seemed way too big to be a medical feeding device. They would push the pipe your throat and deepen to your stomach use a funnel. They would deepen large jar into that of yellow sludge that was there. Poured through the funnel into the tube. First they try to do it to us in groups, but when enough people resisted they started doing one by one. This was a strict magic move on their part. It was easier someone one on one and reassure them that no one else will know lulling him that them into a false sense of security, their method. To convince a prisoner to take the cup of four sludge and drink it himself, instead of having them have to shovel thick pipe down the press.
Her stomach and having that sludge poured through a funnel, but it was a trap. The moment after someone took the cup and drink from it, they were immediately informed that the taking a sip on their own meant the hunger strike was over and they were separated from the striking population. Eventually, moved and sent to another prison gap, as was that they can use bustling older people who are those This is something so amazing to me still. How was your so? I could put up with a lot of pain and start, but those are all there people, like you, know your father, your grandfather's and they see up there and they said no, I'm not going to eat because you are evil regime, and this is the only means of resistance. I have not to eat I will not eat so they add many of them stuck by it, but you know there's, like other people, we talking forty fifty sixty one sixty but do you know like neurotoxic garcia, but so, but
these guys were worth, and tat some of them were see. with medical, problems like edward can do ski one of my friends. So what's wrong, we're lots. We we were in the dead. The intermediate present together so they they they use that they see. Look we just. We don't tell anybody, but you just going to drink without two hassling, those still the same thing so Just as we set of me poet we for us to the cuban your leg, you just drinking and just go to your cell, but there was a. There was a trick because, as soon as you take it, the click few saves that was at the capital flying out of your hands. They slap, it opened the cancun you back again and in the march two different cell and either stay. You separated from that striking from us striking population
you were sent to another present because you are not strike in the morning. They didn't want you to be a strike. So there was a thinking about these guys. These older people no. Indeed, they had so much in love. socialism that there were die even in obeying suffocated, but they will not giving too through the socialist regime, so it is very for me was inspiring to cities old people. For me I was twenty one. For me, six years old was locked out all those that my grandfather these grandfathers, these fathers with their children and outside and families outside, whereas in their lives to free pollen from just of socialism yeah how how how many days did you go before they forced me? I think, a couple weeks. If I remember there was just as there is a time that they did, they have to step in.
Does this prison regulations that will, if you refuse to take me or they will force, we do, but we find out of the better way to because it of doing it and we did it to instead of just doing it ever that cost until you know you that I will you do it two days a week or once a week or once a month. Eventually, describing the book, those more prominent political prisoners, the act been kuski like andrew kuski, kanjorski and other people. David they came out with regular regular regulations, regulations- and I described the fight for the change that there are regulations, so They are they just they creed. I get our own code of conduct as a kind of cod look of politics. Prisoner and most of us. If all of us without having to it. So if you get beat up, there was for these hunger,
if you were put, the into isolation, so there was another thrice or whether whatever they did we they always tools to respond and to counteract that that the socialist regime actions, so that will sir this. For me, though, since inspiring seeing these all people not giving up and say I'm going to out too much of that poland will become free. you, you say this. My mother came to visit, The first thing she said it was. She was very proud of me. Of course, you are replied for what She then show me a letter she'd received from the prison warden. Said. I was disobeying rules and generally being a problematic prisoner for them their acts. occasion was that my mom would come and visit persuade me to change my ways, but my mother, and ass. She read the letter she was. Fussing over my skinniness a moment later.
I wasn't the same young man she'd been only two months before two months before. aren't you a hunger strike? I was thin and look god barely slapped, because I hadn't the mental too, of being in prison was nothing compared to the physical tall, and I was feeling both my mother died. Your pride in me was afraid for me and our family yeah, I didn't know this. I have this letter here. I have this letter in the states here I have it. Actually I found it. I found it by accident. I showed it to my wife. I need to find it: We just say: ok, I need to put it, the place where I will remember what it is this is what I always loose things I just put wracking. I need to remember so it is there. It is good and I'm going to publish it on my website will send it to you the copy when I find it and to search for it. It was so funny. Your sound is really problematic prayer. Just overall, your son's behavior is highly inappropriate, inappropriate in the in in the in the
an appropriate inappropriate, yeah, so any people so that they can go. Ask that question they wanna hit common, persuade me to behave so my mom was like sport. She use they just to see me says, ok I'll come up. Then I'll talk to him studies. They keep going. That's awesome fast forward a little bit the communist regime in poland, fallen following another visit from pope John Paul, the second announced amateur. for prisoners, including political prisoners like myself in poland at the time people. Always tried to dress decent. We even if they were poor. When I left prison, the spring of nineteen. Eighty three, I was smothered in my old winter clothes, which hung off my starved frame like a costume and for all reduction behind my arrest imprisonment. In the end, It's just basically kick me out the front gate and set off you that was it besides, giving me my old clothes back. They also gave me just enough money for a train ticket home, but I had to walk
all the way to the translation of my old winner, clothes and heavy boots. Some pass, your buys pointed, remain whistling and whispered laughing behind my back calling me a bomb I was freed from prison, but not a free man not yet yet so in poland is cast on people, We want to look nice when I was growing up. So, even if you we'll take a trash out. Lookin like a common trash cans. Wouldn't apartments you just going through your trust. You always dress up just to look nice not to look like a ball. Anti We often look like a bomb bombs, not because we dress up like this, because this all we tat were about those different there's, just people that, just when you step outside you love your best and I'm sorry. It's me working sent from prison is big co He called you know their winter boots heavy boots. I look
I get the hobo like a bomb, and people were like hey look at that guy, you know as I, so and of the body, I might also add, supported yeah. That's definitely important. You say by nineteen eighty three, the people were so tired of hunger, terror years of fear, they endured onto the socialist state that they were ready to hang communist from their lantern post if they could have gotten their hands on them. Yes, that was You know- and this is something that we need to be very careful at you understand this process that happening point because, Poland, there, the polar just, could not stand anymore, the social state and the communist party apparatchiks they were ready, asked for violence and in they were creed. These groups, when you mentioned earlier the word there were creating. Many of these groups were clean, by the securities, sir secret police states it. Really police.
They were just like. You know that there were that they were the most seems like those agents and inform us that the most polluting poland's seems like they were just right. Ok, so we need to make the oath to cause here, let's get together make a secret meeting. Let's guess so we we just don't do violence, but we will be prepare for these prepared for that. This is there were getting these people to join in the old taking these days oh some different things, while these Agents is writing things down, so, if you and this is something that eventually they could use these groups they wanted to use. They didn't have time to do it because the companies fell. they would use these groups to instigate violence in them. they did that the danger was that one of these guys that day, agent loading format will do something to provoke things or something provocative.
Then they would have a reason to just out of the entire group and they were doing there too. There were priests could well being for trying to be frame. There were priested, there were an activist, we're being frame like this and they all went to jail because they either one of the informants did something that allow state security polished, whereas entire group so would would they use that the proper? and as well as in yes, he lay on a series of that when he s they did and about its it simulated in the motor one of the priest, the father of scope. Puppy, will score this proposal for a popular score for the populous coastal state security police tried everything they tried to say: he's got a gun around that hero. The gas or then he's the pedophile. Then he's days nothing stay. This guy was but a pattern that he was very as preaching free.
the preaching, don't leave on your knees and eventually they get tired of it. They kidnap him, they murder him and the and the def eventually and think this. So if you, if you are this, is that the lesson to to oppressors? Eventually your time will come, because today they are prosecuting these people, these people, these cops when pollen became free, the security police went to prison. These these agents went to prison. They day prosecute. Actually they are asked it. They call it extra judicial, more theirs. when judges, what a sentencing butter the pause or fake evidence. Or just just enticing them to death. They cover the more let us do. This are more this and they are not accepted judicial, more that's! So these views judges are being today prosecuted, motherfucker
I was contacted the recently, maybe a couple of months ago by one of the people, during my city, trying to build the case against these oppressors. Today, years, a decades after five, so if you are no press or if you are pervert, if you are the verdict of the masses banded your time will come. You will be one they prosecuted for by the law and use you're gonna get yours, the nobody's immune and that's where vessels habit. That's the best examples point I never thought it will happen, but they were prosecuting these more than others that those judges those prosecutors and those police. Secret police officers for for what they did to point your time will come. Yes, your time will come.
after I was really about going back to look after his release from prison, I became hyper whereof. The communist atrocities being committed And the miserable living conditions in poland, yours, a priest that would do that. Would were dom Is it the prison? While you re s, yes- and I was pretty moving ts, father periodic yes, this is something for me both at the time as a young. you know you don't really dwell much about your faith, about the other philosophical things but when you know when he scouts coming and visiting as the president talking about freedom talking about things that an about faith, it really changed me too. So there was like for me was very at a significant moment in time in my life, where he does that he had a big influence on me. Actually I hit them a chance to me. He recently when I went to poland,
the union of former political prisoners that twenty twenty two, and the pope had a huge influence to prepare the huge and for us to yes and he replied to come to parliament Alice social regime, communists running, suffers, regime, release political prisoners this about so among other political prisoners not dating, Please everybody! It there are still people kept in secret that nobody knew there are some people that they deem extremely dangerous. I didn't realise, but they released most of political prisoners before John Paul. The second came to Poland second time and what a great person, though now is he the the the the the abolished and socialist elites tried to smile his name and that the strategy's reputation now today, of course, that's what they do.
You say this. The communist regime believed that depravity and perversion thrown on society, make it easier to divide people and therefore control them. Yes, really morality was key for commune to succeed. Your morality must be based on the ideology and the political agenda of those in power not on odds laws god faith and strength to the people which made them dangerous to the regime. An independent in thinking in the lovely and not thinking along necessary paralyse. Yes, that's true that that the pray that that the privately perversion, alcoholism, alcohol, the vodka postal pushed on people make them volatile, make made them also with divide. Them and then taken stepping? They can broker peace between this group and that group, but also they use that these people they use these groups mental your people,
two to wage war on the nation entity for for control, so people who normally you would have compassion for and mental. Your person you would like set out. Allow them to live in dignity that was taken from them. They were being used as a scapegoat, often or as a bargaining chip. to destroy the polish society in and instability in polish society. So that was very common and an evil, as people do take a sigh. they have their own opinions, but if you can keep presenting group of people ass far ass us as evil or you please present evil as the good this is what you supposed to emulate You know in your heart that this is just put a fashion: the private and evil. Then you, You already are rallied against these people
If you, if you present meltdown mental illness as something that you have to this, is that norma. This is how it's supposed to be you, of course, most normal people say no. It cannot be like that and very and they will lash a gaze these mental. Your people, who just did nothing to being power used. The socialist regime to control society to divide us folder. So that's how it war. This is how the perversion, the private demur, Illness was used, for there for the further there. gender to this meant Finally the attacks on the faith and patriotism. Dismal was a big thank you If you are a partner that is no way you will go in joint international club of the communist party of something. So they no, they destroy the borders in poland. If data drawing their there that the family faith in it. throughout? This meant the national identity
Then you are so says easy target for to become upon national international subject and it is making if it works today, because when I went to Poland, I had the chance to speak to from my one of the french. a german, Hu I refer is a gentleman but the offended him he was a gentleman he was the european union citizen colleen, gentlemen, was the right extremist the extremism and action be ever use. He was not there. I want to make it very clear in voting system wake me that He was not a gentleman. He was that citizens of, european union germany's just three musement now. Yeah, that's the goal. The goal is to break apart. The family, remove faith in anything other than the state anyway this taken control, you,
fast forward a little bit and this interesting to me, even though I been freed from prison. I was still consider an enemy of the state, and ever Sk leads to the point that I faced prison time again, but it was a constant fear and it became impossible to live my life trying to live normally when you regularly looking over your shoulder waiting for some states, security, police officer to jump out the shadows or from around a corner, isn't life, it's torture, it lasted for only a few months. In the autumn of nineteen eighty three, I finally decided to visit the: u s: embassy in warsaw and request. Medical asylum ask for help, and it such impassable thing for me to think that I could ever be out leaf poland and come to leave as a free man, in amerika. You know in am of amity I was always for me this that this country, where people are free that they can we leave their lives the way they want to
government, not telling them how you have to leave your life and in it, but it was such a distance. Such are impossible to to do even imagined that I can ever come to america and so but when these things happen, that way argued that what would you just say ass? It was what have I will have to lose, can go and ask us help. I didn't think there will be and allow to you know to come to such a great country, and special me being a criminal at the time of criminals, not really criminal rapid, but with a present
I and no actually have the opposite happen. How I finally was found with a lot of water, then yeah we're going to help you. We need to help you, so this is what we need you to do. I was guided through the entire process and like very quickly, I got a promise. The promise I promise for the to have an immigration or visa to the united states and the ours allow to come to amerika. You know those here, those something he just go down. There knock on the door yeah like what do as embassy and say that this will happen to me You're. The one who lives over the two by the with this, if you, if you are a political prisoner at the time, I think there they look at you differently. So, yes, I just waiting line, came to me my time can mean explain what happened to me. What is my the real story, and that's that here. I am you know that we yeah. You said it took like a matter of months
within two months of three to four months three months, I think the rabbit I was had. This promise usually take took a long time To get immigration over these out even longer time than that, but because it was emergency, then the like, they understood the urgency of it in the house. I was allowed to come to him or to cover the queen was actually finally because it I could tell you for four days, because I don't know I was always called so. I did- within a to, or I will just want to come to amerika. They even asked me what I want to leave must be crazy, so anyway, what is hard to see what can be caught. murphy's tennessee us, like I dunno what it is and how that their? Oh, yes, I mean that's good enough. You say that when I was fast world again the you you go through some of that details of that
process of get now there. Finally, you get on a plane west. Germany was the first stop on my journey to freedom in germany, I learned a lot about the american citizens and polish expatriates living there who worked for you, a state parliament and who are seeing me with other me and other poets political refugees and the transition to our new life in america. They taught me and others fleeing from very this oppressive communist terror states. What america is like the customs so from, whereas an to be successful, being good american citizens, it was a lot to learn and even then it baby scratch the surface. This is when I made a promise to myself that I would be the best citizen that america could have. It was my led to america the greatest caution in the world, the land the brave and the free yes that's. This is something that is still with me today. Very very, very life, though, is sir I was never ask.
whoa whoa. What can we get out of you? was only ask too. When you come to amerika. We ask you to respect our citizens respect our los angeles, the our flag in that country and believe, go, if leaving peace, because it is like the there was so well, so they don't want anything from me. No g we just want you to come and leave as a human being. and hopefully you learn about amerika love you become you a citizen event and you can vote. You can actually be part of this. This setting the direction for the country I was like. Tat was just those like science fiction to me at the time, and that will happen.
On march, twenty first nineteen, eighty four- I landed safely I'll be exhausted in america, with the equivalent of ten cents per ten phoenix. Those gentlemen about and finish as I like, maybe five says actually but like princess. I was picked up from the earth. by a church family who'd volunteered to host me want apartment was being set up that pardon big long at all. In the days of my arrival, I was brought to my new apartment near the project's downtown. Memphis are completely stunt it the nice place, but it was mine and most importantly with america- for he was the most beautiful place on earth. The fact that I had suddenly had an area listening unit, central hidden and refrigerator, was mine blowing to me, oh yeah, you knows in poland. I remember when I was growing up important, sometimes watching. I'm ready movies you can see this seizing the windows, and I was like why such a simple idea to put the just boss
so when my mom puts the moon, my mom puts the milk out because this poland was called so we give the full knowledge of the window, and I felt flowed fourth floor. So sometimes they think fit off so Souci. What Such a simple idea does also boxes mom, why don't we the box. I haven't a motorcade at hearing our home, well, I didn't know there were other condition, is, I think, they're just boxer when it gimme the milk and meat and the substance to be called. So I learn that by the There was such a you know, like but I still remember that time when I came in, I there's nobody told me what to do. I can ask they will tell me, but is nobody waiting to put me in prison? I can say whatever I want to say, without, of course, not offending other people.
and envy flee man. There's no has really felt free, and this is something that even today is touches me. You know that there are still can come back to the feelings when I was really I feel for the first time that is not the government here to torment me or or or you know, or put me in prison, so as to How long did it take you to feel like that? Was it instantaneous. We just did the first when idle landed. There was the first time that the slack they can't get me now but then, when I started living on my own, though I was a janitor at the esa, that was your first job. You got oceana. I was a janitor yeah, so I was going to use toilets mopping the floors this down on me. I can pay for my shit. I can failure to my apartment. I care about you, for this is that this is not all the story, because you know I wouldn't make? There was be, maybe so easy for me. I had a modicum people coming in.
helping me. Basically, this is how we need to do this. This to this, we need to close my calls will now do you know I was making barely money as well as those pertain genital, so just enough. hey my apartment, my food, but that closer status american was bringing you people, I didn't know from other. They I feel that you know what he's in need, so we're gonna help him, and This is something that people here think about don't realize that even this so transparent to america's a good, this being good to other people and helping their people, and sometimes I saw what you are happy this person than they were That's where we are. You know this is the way. I'm eric eyes. You can how'd you help in, do was what was wrong with that no, nothing you just! I think what you are doing you just doing, because
This is the way you were brought up as an american helping people helping other people. If you succeed, you have other people succeed at this is it this is. What about this is so too does not want this. How we are well, that's how we are but this is normal. but this is not normal anywhere there around the world. That is different. I know a family of refugees from from vietnam and they came to erica. Someone paid for them to come to america. They paid for this and we too have like a small house they paid for like for them to get started. They same thing paid for all the stuff. And the family ended up the sun's end up doing very well there like super wealthy. Now they they still don't oh, who the people are that sponsored that camp they don't. Even just someone just gave them of a right.
to freedom now and then head start in amerika and the people that did that never have stepped up and said: hey you welcome or hey how pay back. Nothing they can do to. Goodness is something that I welcome. people don't see because this transparent to them They are brought up like this. This is just the way we are, but for as immigrants, it is different is like hole shit is the entire nation is is is so different is built goodness pedersen. Our freedom it is being cherished, and this is something that that's it. It touches me every time I think about it is: is that that the nature of amerika and the character of of america, which is by people, don't think, because there's no way we are like without either why would he? But there is a lot to target. you right in here about the first time you went to a mall. Well, how that, like you,
The people are well before I went to them all. I went to downtown. Does in Poland there was never mars right. There was just like if you go when it goes like nice table accordingly. well, I was I was in the electronics accuracy like Kevin nice tape record their havoc. Maybe some nicer radio so as important to go to you go to downtown. There's like we work on the street and you see it because, as the climate is so mild that there's no reason to go inside you out So I will they signed myself to go check it out myself. I was encouraged by the people who took care of me first time that the other couple to explore america, so I decided without out what I see those be buildings in the far away. I couldn't just this. Does it, but I've never seen that thing that fast like, I just woke up their swept with my flip gloves on foot probably flop, just going to jump into over the into
states, because I work I came to the stars like there's. No, how do I go well just cross the street so that in the better. So I can't believe this a jump over the face, climbed the bank, lucky boy had to go downtown took me a few hours I came in then it's like nothing there. So there's like big offices. You can see nice dress people during the lunchtime, though eat something bunch of historians, but nothing to look at just the office buildings. So then I was teaching my way back in again every so often summer. I can't stop. Do you need help Do you need a ride like now Thank you that by then, according to how to say what they want could tell what they want, because my I speak english, but that kind of they won't give me a ride or sums s another. No thank you keep walking back, but
are places all over my feet. I say I will never do it again and definitely nothing the flip flops and then I will start. I told him about my escapade at this other capitals, They took me to to them. Also, this is where you go holly, shit. I haven't seen my alive things like that. That was like everything there you know, and this people nice dress. You know that looking around like nobody. chasing them, they don't try to just run to see I grab, something like I was used to. You see something good just going to grab it. So I was like wow What is so great you know so, then I was always like what do you want to get out of it? The more has aroused I become really did that the permanent, more fish, nothing in my office for wild, because I just couldn't have enough of it. so you eventually venture we get a job in a car shot picard dealership, you're you're ura full
parts, basically that they need oclock, easy for those. Ok, it has you do in that. Your english isn't great. So you kind of messing up several parts at your word has yeah yeah. So basically, if the dealer, the oakley keasey forward, didn't want to fire me because I was, working so hard. They knew and my challenges, my english, but they like me they they are putting this opportunity to show up in another dealership ship to be a mechanic either for a out. The sab so they say. We, though, like would you. What do you think about it? You know anything about foreign cars. The oddity could do you know the european gas like yeah at again, elo. I didn't even know anybody who had none of my friends even owned the car and I never owned the car for sure, and then my father only did, but he was never with us. I never seen that car so, but
europeans are, you must know about it now hear from euro. So do you know about european cars like yeah, and I just want two less of we're out to another opportunity in I with that? I was not doing that great here. I was trying very hard, but just my ability their bugging own bunny with the tools and how much I can do that all day, long and ass, they say yes, yes and we went the two are, so they drove me to the dealer shape and the stream to mechanics show at first for port. Then for our the, but they both look at me as like. We know what the gaily thus be english very well, and I need somebody who actually can get up to speed up these cars. They would have an expensive cars to to do something so No, no thank you and so this yogi well, let's wait for the last one. Does beside mechanic
the outer these and other than the rumble of harley davidson and the hope dealerships shook. So the guy just pull they live within, though I could hear him by the winnings email because we are in the office and the six foot, something sas who are chosen, fucking it'll, yet the big guy slack. She doesn't look at them that guy slovakia May do you want to be signed mechanic yeah. Ok, I need a slave, so I think he must my slife whip go work for me and hi it. I got a job and sky. They were afraid of him. The offer and added that equality, motorcycle gangster, He took me under his wings. Everything I knew I know about cars. Even today I learnt from him
and a the he basically allow me to do move on to the next level in amerika society, I believe mechanic and he might show that I am damn good mechanic and he member of the for me was still very challenging. I've had to read manuals connected What's that you read with the parts them facing the working on, So I figured out the easiest way will be to let him go read this the text for me, so were the france, the gym You could, I would argue, read this manual for me loud owl recorded so then at home? I can repeat and read it over and over Ethel Firstly, we can write what the fuck is. He asking you for a second, I thought we'll kill me, but he says like in a word. I help you But if you tell someone that was your badge in the reading, you books I'm going to
and kill you like. I'm, never tell us about it, as I think he doesn't mind now. I can count butter, but at the time yeah. He was that he was the the the the biggest by this guy. I think I met at tail till in my life, so he told me everything. I know he knows there about costs. He made me good mechanic and, he, but when he read here he was not a good reading and live there. I know, he's a resistance. Now understood why he didn't give you three but he did he struggled through read as much. I think as I do. I think I could do rallied as much as he could, but he did it and then, at home later on every night I was listening to the table to go there and following in the text and then, The figures that the drawings and the really help me help. You really become the good mechanic, I often so much so jimbo. If yours
to this end, my respect to you and my gratitude. Thank you for everything you made me better american. Thank you brother. There you go james moonbeams more james more, so you with that job. You end up getting a job, then with mercedes times gone by you in on a date with some girl and she had just been skydiving yeah. You know what I can never thought. We ve this possible, never crossed my mind by the here and now that meet the girl and she, jobs. So now, if you like your posing next to have what the hell are we talking about? Actually, why don't you try and strike the I think that was one of the ties with like unlocking moments that yeah. is stopping me. Why wouldn't I try? This? Is america? Is America you can do whatever you want to do, of course, within the limits the lower the citizen but well or account to drop some I say hey, can I jump yeah I'll be right there,
just throw myself daddy and I was ready they would put parachute on me by the sea. While that doesn't work, try this You can do today into the tent them job so that, if you like it, then you know you can ask, you, can guess schedule their classes and usually take couple weeks that you know good classmate your job, another class make a job and it within. Me two weeks, your be skydiving on your own right as you want some but a stunt than john by safe Did you do it again, so went back again and then I just run out of money for weakens us and I want to start skydiving and they Ok, what can I start? We can start on thursday, so we may get thursday job they may be, wagon one on the weekend there, maybe another wednesday, made another weakened. The seven jobs, are you have and you good then, estate jumping on your own,
I started on thursday or saturday. I was jumping in my own life and we just went through all these jumps. I was just nagging begging them say: hey, don't leave, don't leave yet mom will jump one more job, and so the instructors tell me rest in peace brother, in the end, the watchmen, with colleagues, as if they were one. Then the regime and Sarah. That would mice through those actually read to me first on their of the first sky. To do this, the guy, who helped me apple, skydiving, and then they were there all the way through my progression until I graduated from of course, when I became the air there. seven skydive. On friday and saturday I was on my own, I see a battle, but us with surrender faster than I was driving in my own and they are now
It was creamy like jeronimo because they told me to scream like this. So I, when I was bombing out of the airplane on my on my own after a nineteen jump jeronimo, and also with my name to my jerome, so there's like those like toward between us is that the euro zone does anyone know if I will call you geronimo. That is your four hours ago. We don't have to worry about that. Funny name a sewage I became to so you're learning that you're learning freefall you also at this time are starting to become an american citizen. Yes and you memorize all that information. You learn new the amount, in history yes, because it was examined later here and you do in that. The the war kicks off. The first call for kicks off can't you become a citizen of america. Lay nineteen anyone yes. Now, though, the wars going,
or looks like it's gonna go off and you decide you're gonna my country, giving a fight. Yes, yes, that by an american that was american. This is my, answering war in neat, so I will support my country, s, fight war for america, and this is when I decide to join military, voting time to spend two do carry you out of it. I just I just wanted to fight a war on behalf of amerika, because somebody was at war, so those that I had to do that. and I did I didn't know how to go about it. So I went to post office and I found there that thing face If you say in the book in the post office, I'd found a selective service registration card for the draft yeah, I proudly filled it out, sent it off and went back my stuff yeah. I was I think it a call from the military, gibe america
war, and I was ready to serve so they they saw. The guy's, came in this. I, what are you doing drug? no, I was just on your website so that a good journey was right, with the war so unpacking this. That know what to do with the parachutes, but you can get the care of it for awhile and I'm ready so without leaving us like any time because it so so they they like, ok, but then did that The response can mean that I'm too, all that's just the there's another theirs. Registration is not there. contract, the milton contract and I was like saddened by this, for you know. Well, though, this some weight. I can support my country, doesn't have to be. Maybe not I do, but I would like to do it because the easiest, I cannot build a jobs. I dont have resources to build just for my fellow americans.
So our fight for them- and I will end It- did of guide me later say what This wording is doing to go to the pilot to the recruiting office in and I had no distinction between army navy, military tat. It was military to me and what those like How do we never yet, as I didn't know, the difference that there is a difference, so I went to army officer, say sodomy, so honey I'll go that way, since they feel paper toward they proceed the paper louis with all this back on track and everything to go on in them in the meantime when they order the complete pretty much everything that came. The legacy of skimming to my peace tennessee, and they are they we jump together, because I ve been dumped him right here I was jumped from ITALY. Prologues leap rose, they would think some demonstration memories. Of course they stood by old rows of tonight's extra fun, fun jobs,
this, however, we'll find out they. They told him what I'm trying to do and they're like well, why don't you couldn't SK, the navy got joined the navy, because asked them about, maybe see us Aren't you didn't know the navy seals were at the time that I just knew. There's some special forces. Stuff for those, not my goal to joint special forces address I just want to be in military to fight a war, because amerika was fighting a war and and so I went up to them and say: look up, I just might guys it might drop zone. They told me to come to. your office and sweet. My paperwork from basically the joint adam you. What I'm working with no recruited next door just come to talk to you fast, and the whole these guys. I say the countenance of seals oh ok So what do you want to do in the navy out to be levy? So just like these guys,
kay zone over there who are working on a little way to bring the paperwork and I was covered up what for me to go to these guys out of the bill relationship boys that army recruiters and I go there to see like wow. Thank you give me my paper where I'm going next door, but I did that I didn't like it, but I did it. Didn't like, because they feel comfortable like it. I feel we gave it to the eyes and then up so I brought into play but work staff and those public weak from them? Because they are? Those does vertical Yeah yeah, I mean you say saying the book the following thursday are sworn into the: u s: navy delayed entry program that saturday I left for boot camp, because what happened is they asked me whether there were honest with me that there were denies with me that provide with the job, because you can in the navy, as others designated and then good, come the navy, send you somewhere
but they knew that I'm way to all the end, my chance to join navy seals was pretty much So so they say, one of these would give him the guide job he so excited, To be part of the military, so so what job do you want to do? and ass. I was something with panache would be because I don't know what the jobs, maybe jobs, but by with yeah- but I should say right, don't send me up then he's like well, but you know what they call me like next week in all this is like to you'd better get you have to leave now, because This is the schedule, is both come and that we too schedule so from put come. You go to a school you, don't go now. You have to wait another month or two to go to boot camp and then so the timeframe counts just right. So after book go to a school sassou out. I don't wait long, the war on so Samia.
So I come my girlfriend friend. I now see doin. we're getting married because I'm leaving for the navy. So what we're going to the navy the navy, so we do get married and there and the scale of light was upset, but then she she she came in that was in town, save how we need to go and find the judge get married. So that and I'm leaving this weekend, so we went up that we we got them. We find jack was actually leaving home so say ok can you? Can you married us, sir He was a nice nice guy who thought he talked to us. Tat would be if we let paper what we got married I won't do. Anything on thursday gets once with delight entity. Delay entered a programme and nothing set of their ship out the set of this month. as of late. I don't remember where I will ship out to boot camp and it was it so I was I was in the navy. I was happy. Damn
dude, I as it allows us to go to war. I send me toward than never intent. in career out of it. I just thought: make just go: we'll fight the war when the war is over, come back and resume. My life is good life in the house. I had everything in my life. I could dream of. and then you ended up a navy book here. There you go yeah. And there was something that was for me- was a danish, nothing was pretty scary because they yelling at me in on a shape, my head my cause away, give me some. They know that the military close the shark bud. the four second I was like that's pretty scary, but then I say this is this is the path for me to fight for america. So I need to do that and I say that- and I was good, because I graduate as a number one recruit in this whole graduation cycle
so are you receive the military excellence? Our number one recruit Anne was sent off to a school the next there they pursued rigging school, and we wish you were a kid me stone during became. Yes, yes, they up almost got rolled back years, so in no other keep still worse than that. whenever I was not that he it Filling the bed and know what neither just like the pain. Just kick me right: soap, so badly. My back. There fell off that book from the first second bunk on the floor, as you know, it was over. The darkness were sleeping. The issue was I what happened. The lights went on and by that, and the sick site the mighty recycled in spain. Something in the end and I'm on my phone and with but before the medics even came out, I headed the dead, the power puddle of sweat from pain under my nose but this guy coming out, are you? Okay? Do I, Ok, you know case they hung up the hospital
that was ok. You know appears this thing up. When they told me, I need to be moved to the class behind. In my buddy one, six, nine. I think that was graduating. As I was begging, No, please send me back. I'm good at peace discredits the stone I have no problem, I can I'm good and they decided to actually the army to combine the funny. Things was like Spying for me was so when I walk into the group because they announced today company through this recruits that I will be moved to class behind. I was married emergency and I'm not going to be continuing. and then I'm working aim, so they re like a line up- and I was organised by the was clubbing in italy, so inspiration to meet these yankees. These guys and they d like that. They know that binding that, with the their company yeah, but they also was the dalai lama
training because I didn't know at the time, but eventually I was going to pass the test. Thousand medical check, ups, medical for this- that seals and I went maybe like two three station and the one that the doktor looks at it say. Well, I think europe, he'll couriers answer right here well overdue. Yes, sir, You say that we have. The key may still have to wait a thing here: euro two years I have these documents. Do at home, we have to wait a year, and then you can apply, foresee or training again so meet nobody. continue with your age. Cool and just go assigned it like the command somewhere and so I was like efforts that were made. That would be one game rca over because h outlining the waiver, like I was life going. Thirty two was like for you over in the dance another year, waiting it and more fears that they would never happen. Well
Luckily, you got hooked up. You got this part of the book here you say while Millington. This is where you're you're a school was. Where you learn about paris, I visited a navy seal motivator on base. I asked him to take the initial seal entry test and I passed it then, told him, my situation with the kidney stone he thought for me, and then told me to bring my medical record to his office. Sure ran to the clinic on base with the request with his. Quest for my medical record and was bad within an hour the record of my Kidney stone was on the first page the navy seal motivator lester tommy, to wait outside his office. I could hear allowed rip and I was called back into office. Here. did me with concern and said that he was not a find any record of my kid me stone anywhere. He asked if I could pointed out for him as we can through my medical record. I could not find it either then looking care We are me he asked.
If I were sure that I ever had a kidney stare at that point I was already a hundred percent, convinced that I hadn't t that's the less bodies, rest in peace. Brother. That's he's no longer with us. he's, the one who actually put me on the right track with my career on track. The way so eleven the seal teams But you know what this I want to make one point here: my biggest motivation was not to be a sea. I was just to joint military join you navy and fight the water we have amerika whenever I was at war, so what if it is sales capacity building. Made. But if not italy was that That is important for me. What color There will be serving america, india, so then, but it happened. It was about He knew what he was doing. He asked me to bring the paperwork he fixed and I went to and eventually
I am also with it with the trade school, the a school as a piano has it on the top of my class I was doing well in the navy, and I think this Y got these waivers eventually, so Many things thing me from twenty. Was my age that was a with less body is an accommodation and I was granted the waiver I appeal to all this person has to go through, but do you know I think it was maybe five years older than I am, but it was like four or that maybe fact for all people than I was I was going. I think I've heard of someone being thirty four There is now somebody who was older than dead, but he didn't make it true. He made out That's putting make it through the training key here he didn't make through lcd guy but by those was just very few people, I think
I didn't know at the time that that I am one of the oldest ever going to that, but I can of yeah I've heard well, you eat it it's hard to recover for guys that are older. Now, listen! You're a straight up me! as you said here right now- you're frequent sixty three years old, you look like you're thirty, eight years old at the most yeah, so most guys. It can recover fast enough under thirty three years old, the winner, thirty two years old, even when their thirty years old and so it's really hard for guys that are called older to make it and it's also hard for guys at our young to make it through. I heard that today a static guys that are underneath twenty have less five percent of making, because when you are young, you dont quite have all your strength yet and watch I'm the guy, just our mentally mature enough to be able to have got through stuff. So
I think the prime age is like twenty three twenty four somethin, like that, that's the most of the guys in my class went to twenty three. Twenty four. I was all I mean that if you have all the amongst them, because I could be that many of them, but I I was- I was like you thought they took care of me. They knew I was kind of different. I was different. provided they are and I was like you. I became like in moscow in the class, I guess even it is making fun of me instructors stew, but you know they didn't find indeed battles on me. So to push on, so they move on the yelling and other students I got. The other two, but not more than than average. In the class but they were when they pick somebody in the class who was like weak something was like sensitive about something pages. Pushing this button until until guys yeah all out of order,
stopping sensitive, great yeah. That's right, they can either become hard or they have never bother me out along the The present time I went to the study actually help me my much me mentally enough that that never me, I know never pay attention to that. They could. Let me all day long. I just wanted to do good job just wanted to be good. Now you a bucket, your biggest issue was that you weren't the strongest swimmer, and I was thinking about that when I read it, I was like yeah, it wasn't like. You were going down to the country club pool on the weekends in poland or anything like that. You are taking shit trips down to the seashore to go swim so yeah. Much water time, Rona yeah. No, not at all I mean they're. The things said: there's a stream of eureka as little tiny river by my grandmother's place. well, it was every year year once every while I was going dead, but I didn't The swing very well so
and I tell you this house a naive I was, I will jump for second to box when I should have been bought. You know that get whether sandy again so many of us just around the ocean. I see these guys as getting like a knee deep like the ankle, deep water, the raleigh knit and just come out with a rolling descent, saucier, that's kind of stupid. I just That's just is kind of like painful, because call I just go and the wave we'll be waste. Roll over me such I, just the wave rose over me- and I get in that zone descent and come back. Please look those to the class with I didn't know the powerful, the power of ocean, I thought, drown. I thought my my haines. My legs got ripped out of me, eventually, the oceans put me out, and I was
colleagues ousted. I say what the fuck is this, and so I basically crawl out of that think rolling the same than a limp back to them and they never. Then I say I disguise it was smart. I need to follow them, do what they do, but the activists we do so. I was any that over try to practice safety, like jason cabell as a bell j bl. Yes, yes, so we when we met in that pr school this when we tried to help our souls and prepare. But there is nothing, can prepare you. I couldn't swim. Jaber couldn't swimmer unless the nite owl really do not know. How can this game made it to the sheer willpower He just would not quit. the we swains was determined. Do he's. Oh yeah he's a hard headed due to makes up. You know women. Often This is so when I had to have ties, we can become good friends and there in the eighth cool so too bad about. Orphanages likely lie in his opinion on all he's what he wants.
thanks, you know what should I do this? one thing which is asking helping each other out so Jaber was so. Results must gather. Tat will bicycles together, talking so we are therefore says something that they will will work. france for our souls were brothers forever and then you know with combat doing they interact. So there was something but I remember when I was learning how to when I was trying to swing when I first I'm comin had never swimming with the mosque in on my face, so They told me to put the mask on and they told us with collapse, after the repairs to lapse. I was under the drowning because I couldn't breathe that was bleeding so much water into in the lungs us air and- and I was like we do see this black spots. You know this that the about to pass out. So I remember, if I and up they'll, just give me out of sight. I can't swim, but if I don't
I wouldn't have drowned. They will pull me out of water assisting me so safe. I just swim swimming as I will swim until I pass out and I didn't know I was getting easier and better and better and eventually end of it when we finish with this phase, the next skimming our chosen to demonstrate sites to swim new guy soon. So I did so. You figured it out and I mean you used to you already been imprison a communist in camp I want you got to the swimming people. Yonah premature, no big deal and then the running, of course, all that stuff pretty much no factor for you. It was, I was pretty good at they. That was not the top of the class, but I was never. I was there. We're gonna, give third phase when I start piecing blood, but otherwise it. I was always someone in the middle of the pact and no available stocks, and what are we gonna guys would have. After finishing
I was with amusement watching like these guys, cape, let's go drinking like fire. Can do to help them about them. I can have the move. I cannot leave my aunt so that we did not manage to get a drink with a guy. Does not seraphic. Did you forget rolled back, gathered by just in the beginning of a right before the house. I got this medicine reflection so much, like sward accident, put my pencil, and I was using smart about. Instead of a figure out, I don't go to their medical now, but with Do I just wait till friday, so they will. That shit out, and then I have a three days to here. I'm good to go well so I went to balboa in the on friday. After we finish without works without they and the date they clean it up. Cut the shit out and they sent me home and I was like- ok, I'm good by monday morning. My leg is so swollen with fortitude. Might
As on I'd like she cut my pants open. And I went to my garden. They like they were Pisa they'd without but why they did not irrigate that once so they just cut it out. just send meal so they they fixed. It in my swelling when that within the loud down south can you put me back in the class say no, because we are going into muds, and open wounds. Gathering fact that he can't there's our now please do is I'm strong. I can do it. I am rock and they say okay, if you can around here that I think the dragon mile bargain afford and you come back on time. Oh we will reconsider it and I did I did wrong. I was put. Was painful but was totally neither the twenty one down. So I did I finish as I can I go back now Yeah is still open, so was well that costs one it for there was
before the house start one five and opened the door to twenty five How much are weak was. How is how weak? How do we do? We know what I've got. I remember as a bad thing care for me. It was like, We get, then I guess the balls and then we ll in the end I was done that the more important that the more difficult for me was tat face. Data was really are how we did it was coming for me and was you might ask, is what I start piecing blood and That was what about what about second phase one I'll have a poor competent. You didn't swim, much grown up the whole house I can't tell by this time. I was swimming good bye. So you know this. This lies about the navy and but even even if you try, Structures will happy. They make sure that you know the matera. I know how to swim. Anybody was kind of The first one pull comp answer, second. While I was those thrust out,
when I failed to take the that the next day They also stressed out when I was driving home I'd be deaf to guys up that fourteen by my apartment, but there was housing. Another story about a passive next time say something really interesting in the book, which I actually think a lot of guys would agree. with, but I don't think I've ever heard. Anybody say it this way. You say training proved. I was capable of a lot of things, but it all revealed a lot of ways in which I wasn't as strong as I fought and ours keen like yeah. You get push to your limits. You can't do anything else like it. You get. You are going to do exercises and do things or you know, oh, like there's a point where you can't just do any more yeah like there's a point where you can't climb a rope anymore. Like it, doesn't matter how bout
you want to. I always like to the example Climbing a rope because you can climb a rope to failure and you can't climb rope anymore, like your game, the agreement for you fly down there, That would have to some guys there on the course like you know they wanted to pass the of course, but they couldn't climb that rope to grab the rope transfer the ring transfer. So are things you we as human beings. Like everyone, talks about how in bud you learn to push through anything, but you also learn. There's some stuff you're not going to be able to push through, and that's why you can need teammates, exactly oil, exactly it teaches. You ever told me to sum up. Stop that need to be aware of that that that that there are things that I to rely on other people and especially on the team work here that the teaches by yourself by anything yeah you and been power. Powerhouse, but- still need the tim wait. You can't
it on your own and is not only to bonds but the entire seal career. You learn to rely on you. You know that bothers teaching you. Where do you need that poor? That extra team made two took due to do to try to get you through. The hump this is. Why was third phase, which is land warfare? Why did that kick your ass about? Well, first, because my my thing made by this time my body was silly but exhausted too, allow myself before going to sink lament the island to be dehydrated The item over we can buy from the rucksack march, and I was pacing blood because our so the hydrated are so tired. I guess, besides my keys I guess what I have, but a strong is that the beatings I got from the they were dead. Did this, how they did the guards were beating us and kidneys, where you basically have no marks of is not many marks. so that pay the get the all and I think from then on. I remember always- I was
weaker, I was weaker than I normally would be a way went to supplement the island that you know that you you just sir there's like how we buy the stairways, you don't sleep, you don't you have to sleep you you always called and wet and Everything is very physic out bad on the top of it. You need to think you, shooting live ammunition. Next to your team made next year's next year. You move, you do things that could potentially kill you, so do you have to you are tired, exhausted, but you still have to think, and you have to think quickly. And on the top of it, want to eat. You have to make those perfect eleven pull out. in full gear. So let's say I was weakening ready, so Sometimes I was able to make those pull us, but if you didn't, then you made those races. You go right back to the serbs to the sight of, and if you don't come back on time assigned to you by instructor,
You ran again you're on again you again and eventually you in that eating outside, so there was december at the time was fucking car. I had a most time aid outside those kind of was how those carry your stories as what they call it. You also say this from the outside. This training seems absurd and it is brutal, Everything that happens during seal training is taken from a carefully curated uncalculated training guide that is updated and improved upon year after year, there are no random exercises and if it's not, the manual is not part of training, unlike the popular belief that some exercise or just arbitrarily made up and crazy and seal training, there is no randomness, haphazard, foolishness. Everything goes by the book and manuals the train dangerous, as it is, there's no need there is. There is no place for craziness. There are many. If the measures implemented to protect students, most of it is invisible to trainees, they don't
about it, and this was one of the ways to introduce stress on the students, so they can be great on how they perform during duress, that's worth, there is big meets conception, and I hear it all the time from people from civilians training is just Aisy decent citizens coming out with some crazy shit. And they'll just drown you they will necessitate you there's like you know, but this is stupid. People need to realise that training, the sill trainees dangerous as it is even they knew sharper that selection cos is about a dangerous, so there's time, there is no place for some crazy in an in wild things. thing goes by manual. Everything goes by their these. Russia's cannot deviate from it, because if you do you risk students life. Is you erase these keys lives? So I didn't know that when I was going through the training, I thought this fucking crazy. This guy. That means
If that things, it is crazy, but it is not. Everything goes by the book. Everything is all right, assign and they and this being, approve improved upon class. So as always, better and better? So you get that, and you end up getting assigned to team, to say anything to you. so that was kind of, I took because you one when you checking you you always under the pressure. Threats to perform to be the good good that's good sailor, so when you checking detains, does there what they tell us? Do you remember I get buzz uniform. You have you present yourself in professional sales way upstairs with I've just press money spent on this weekend pressing my uniform you'll make sure this perfect as ever
he's shiny and incur a shop on the quarter deck, and I was like ok, they produce me do as your message into this initial think, then you got to get back to the backdoor up there and get you got it get your gear issue and all that stuff. so, while at the dead body make it today that you should think, because all seals caught me and the soil out of the new there's going to be some harassment, so our preparatory yeah. Not for that. You say as soon as I was out of sight of the cmc and walking through the compound. I was stopped by other seals, told the jump on the pull up bar to keep doing pull ups until told to dismount For our part, there things got fast, a painful after pulls out Tell that to lay down do sit ups and pushups, and I was ushered out of the seal team through the back gate march, the starting point of a three mile to run testing route
The complete run in the required time, mind you. I was still wearing my dress blues, uniform perfectly policies by the time the older seals finish with me. Awesome uniform, look like sweats, replaying, basketball, imagined now do so so here it is on the base. Right is not more traffic that people go, but the hour we round those three miles rose along the road where people travel the time. when they move. So can you imagine the dude with the wide had no with them, which is why the long fans and the shiny boots and starving and in the end, that the dead the sky Becker cheat and cheat negative. The flop on the on the around and you and you run like crazy, so there's like what happened this guy, just unless he's mine, something so yeah yeah, those those my welcome to the things about them
they expect us to be funny? Things happening to you guys, here's another good one, one friday, the older guys invited us f and g to join them for a canker. Nuke a house impressed, I thought the I thought there. general genuine interest in team building, we're looking for the end of the day. Honestly, I remember Oh wow, these older experienced seals are inviting us to join him for beers. How awesome whoa yeah felt like buildings are three. We felt like the popular kids that just invite us to sit with them at lunch. Quickly learned, however, that we were there to build camaraderie or hang out with the popular kids. We are there for the amusement of the veteran seals. This was them giving us an old school navy. Welcome Cool old gus jumped us inbound our feet with rigorous, take their hunger from the high bay ceiling with cranes and chain lifts, of course, there were more than a few punches thrown throughout to minimize our resistance to their welcome. We soon found ourselves hanging from the ceiling like big grumpy bats every once in a while, we were lower down from the ceiling for a switch of beer or another
beating or to be laughed at when our faces change and other sate shade of red? We weren't back on our feet, and The king was over while this which one might be considered hazing by outsiders. It was meant to be a kind of testing ground for the new guys. We prove your tough enough to be trusted any situation today. There are no longer keg fridays and seal teams, and no, the halls allowed. The compound very strict paul is regarding alcohol now in place. The old welcome to the teams has been softened and put under control, so the new welcome procedures are not mistaken. For hazing, there are very strict policies in place regarding any welcome events, but at that time it was all good the girl, you know, and I think that it was there- was nothing wrong with that. They say that some people get hurt, but I think that most of the feelings get here. I dunno if you have to have a thick skin in teams, so for me kind of like you know, I just roll with the punch as he does as these guys,
I kill me at least I hope not and there's going t