« Jocko Podcast

403: The Office, Art, Idiocy, and Other Tales. With Actor, Writer, Producer, Rainn Wilson

2023-09-13 | 🔗

RAINN WILSON is a NY Times Bestselling author and three-time Emmy nominated actor best known for his role as Dwight Schrute on NBC’s The Office. Besides his many other comedic and dramatic roles on stage and screen, he is the co-founder of the media company SoulPancake and host of the docuseries “Rainn Wilson and the Geography of Bliss” on Peacock. Rainn is the author of the NY Time Bestseller Soul Boom: Why We Need a Spiritual Revolution, The Bassoon King: My Life in Art, Faith, and Idiocy, as well as the coauthor of SoulPancake: Chew on Life’s Big Questions, a New York Times bestseller. He lives in California with a lot of animals, his wife and son.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This is a guess number for a three with echo charles and me jocker willing good evening. I got good evening I had the biggest fattest head of any baby that was ever born into the human species my head, was and remains a combination of the head from the alien. An alien prize winning albino cassava melon from the I will state fair. truly sorry for my parents Patricia shea whitman and robert. Bob wilson when I Imagine them cradling my dewey gigantic nests in the rain soaked winter of nineteen sixty six on their houseboat in seattle. I was one of those taught that you see asp. Under your breath, cool horror. I wasn't one of those babies that made it easy for viewers to hide their surprised, revulsion I am sure no one knew that I'm sure no one knew what to say when they saw my white bloated
Macy's thanksgiving day parade head lowering about on my snowy damp potato sack body. I was like, I'm kind of larva? I was there of grub worms that have never seen the sun picture ash manatee with a tiny human face, now picture creature screaming to have its diaper changed. You get the idea now you know I need to keep going. I'm not sure if you fully understand the large headed pale horror of baby rain. If there a magnet with vaguely human features wrapped in swaddling clothes. That would have been me. the university of washington hospital, probably bleached, the entire pediatric ward after I left due to my resemblance of a life size, blood, white blood, core puzzle. I was like Louie Anderson with the head of e t if the nurse at the hospital had swapped me with a bow I'd albino hippo baby. That would have
explained everything. Instead, My parents were handed a lumpy job of the hot, like infant, that made sounds like a calf being sprinkled by an octopus me, that right there's an excerpt from a book. all bassoon king are, idiocy And- tales from the band room written by rain wilson and Rainn wilson, if you don't know besides being a large headed baby, is an actor comedian podcast her producer writer director philosopher- and I made the term spiritual voyager I know, because a ninety ninety seven he played casey keegan in the economic aid, be see drama one life to live and to
I one he played guy in supermarket on CS I for one short part of it, so he was the janitor episode of law and order in two thousand to but he's most well known for his portrayal of dwight K, troop of true farms on the tv. The office. Now the show came from the british version and my wife being a brit. We had our watch this graham- and we were somewhat obsessed with the british version of the office, but the american version of the office ran from two thousand five to two thousand thirteen, which were for me rough years. There were some rough years in their those are the warriors and I my family through a lot during those years, but we got through it through the points and distance and death
and one thing that no matter what was going on, one of the things that always connected us was that shop, the office whose funny sentimental it was reflective And we still watch it and we reference it and we called it, and we are thankful for the joy and connection that that show brought us and we are thankful to have read Wilson here with us tonight to share experiences and lessons learned along the way rain. They join us jacko echo I and so happy to be. That was It was hysterical that is a fucking funny. Writing. Is a funny writer wrote that shit that guy's, talented, your ghostwriter is a skilled individual. He did a great he or she did a great job. It is true, though I I would always see these baby pictures and family pictures from like the late sixties and I'd be like I'd, be like
me, I'm not exaggerating. It was like this watermelon headed my head was the same size as my heart. It was. Are you really are our parents large headed at all, or is this like skip the young generation? My dad's, my dad whole cited families, norwegian and they call norwegian roundheads and they that side of the family is big round basketball. heads no question So, let's talk about you talk about the start at beginning your grown up, you're born of this. Obviously, this giant had your your. Your name is rain logic, we are a, I an end, The immediate reaction is your parents are hippies gap and but then there are a little bit old to be hippies. True hippies, like that people. Monsieur teams, you meet guys that had weird names right. And it was just so obvious you know they'd be like oh, my name is whatever harmony you'd be like. Oh, you know
born in nineteen, sixty nine or born in nineteen. Seventy, the parents were hippies and they just that's what they're doing to rebel against their parents by the way cause their parents are probably still hippies right. Answer that, like I'm golden we'd be african commando. hey, listen army. You can do anything you like what you want, but dont go into the military man. So of course, eighteen, yes uncle! That's what we're doing. What's up with you so they their little too old to be hippies. That's correct! Right! It's hard to hard to sum up, my parents there there are strange lot. You know they weren't hippies in the sense of like, while my mom. I think she did some. She did some alternative. substances say goodbye, but like dad in a weird way, was very like he. Very like in later years, very re, again kind of reagan, republican and but at the time- and it was
didn't have like the long haired kind of thing, but he had the kind of bohemian artsy art see kind of thing, so he uses my dad. Let me put it this way: For twenty some years my dad worked in sewer construction. He was office manager, sewer truck dispatcher, billing accounts, etc. Like that total blue collar guy there, then, but that aside, he would get home put on opera and start painting abstract paintings, murals like crazy, fantastic stuff and then what wasn't enough. He was writing like crazy science fiction books that no one ever read on the side. and he was a member of the high faith. So here's this weird thing of growing up in its like this real blue collar home. We didn't have any money and I don't think he ever made over fifteen grand in a year, and we lived in little rental
concrete, nine hundred square foot houses, and yet we had bohemian artsy kind of art see that of, was going on when I was born, like they lived on a houseboat, he was a pancake chef when I was he was up front. There was a short or a cook when I was born, but he, wanted to be an artist at the same time. So it says, it was? It was weird time? Did he grew up in the north west as well? Now I thought- like, with illinois mountain yeah, mom's from wisconsin deaths from doubters grove, illinois and this What you're aboard sixteen born sixty and yet in nineteen sixty eight year put your parents get divorced gap and What are your memories of that? Going on. why dont remember any of that but that was a you know it. another defining you know, events of my life when I look back on a cause. I've been in a lot of therapy around it.
Yeah! My mom took off. When I was to my dad than real married. When I was three he moved tend to Nicaragua, I'm sure You. Have your nicaragua questions. Therefore, free in nicaragua highlight how do you like I bought up it was you dumb? Yeah was was kind of crazy cause. I he would never answer. Why are they gonna do I would say dad. Why did you and shea shown by shakes change? Your name you can of She went all human being ass. She even join like a weird, like cult called like. Well, don't you can. It is not part of a gig you're goin for her here. If you're going, full european there's gotta be sent having called membership, and then she worked in an insane asylum and bismarck. North dakota
and she had a goat named angel of the morning. So she went there, she might we used to do training theirs. It there's a site, and I forget what stated in, but it's an old, insane asylum. So we used to go in there and like clear buildings and do like extra military type exercises. But it was in this that frequent creepiest place and you have all the navy. Seals will be gone like everyone is on the for list. It's all weird, there's there's some like old, dilapidated wheelchair in the corner, with a bloodstain on it. You're like ooh yeah, there's old, like you could like weird gurneys all it was creepy yeah creepy thing, but that's where your mom worked yeah. Like that, so it when I finally kind of didn't really see her very much between two and fifteen, maybe just a handful of like visits were we'd have like a sandwich or an ice cream corner, something like that boy,
but then, when I got to know her and around eighteen nineteen, I asked her why she left my dad and what happened there and and she admitted that she had had an affair with a theater director, because she he's doing experimental plays an I never knew like. Why did I have this impulse to be an actor like? I didn't know anyone. There was an actor, but I just in my body like I always want to be an actor I wanted to make people laugh, I wanted to do skits. I wanted to do characters and stuff like that and dumb turns out. I didn't even know. There's my mom had been an actor when I was a toddler. She had done, mix crazy, experimental place where she like Ben topless, unlike pain in her torso blue and run around in the audience, and now you ve done a lot of activists there, dumb authority affair batteries.
and she had an affair with a theatre director, the crazy, the interplay and left. My dad and left me big, headed toddler, and but I do want to say like came back into my life when I was fifteen six. In years old she committed to coming in my life to know me. She felt bad. but what she had done. She wanted to repair the relationship and she really worked hard to have a relationship and awe a tone, fur her mistake,
and- and you know it's a shout out to anyone- that's you know had a kid and didn't raise the kid, for whatever reason, no judgment, you can always come back, it's never too late and she made a big impact in my life when I was a teenager like she had a big heart, she really knew about emotions and she put her arm around me and just talked to me how I was feeling, and no one in my existing family did that at all, and I made a big difference, and probably I wouldn't have been as successful as I am today, without kind of a mom coming back into my life and MIKE sixteen to my early twenties, like really being from with me in that way, and one thing I notice about their summer was gonna talk about later ross brain of now so I found it interesting that your dad do a kind of didn't, tell you and to me that seem like the, thing to do like if I was to get divorced from wife, my wife did some heinous things. My kids were little. I wouldn't I would try
to be the dad. That's your mom's, a filthy, discuss day. I would try to us. I did. I would try not to do that guy, because I would think that the thing you could do is try to give them the best, possible image and when they grow pale, figured out it sea like that's the move it. If you hear about this all the time you hear about these painful divorces, and you hear about both sides- bring the kids in the middle and like bombarding the kids with like what your dad did, blah blah blah blah blah and with the secretary will your mom's till all the money and spend it on the blah blah blah and the you know these poor kids are being traumatized in the middle like it and my mom shea was shocked when she said- and I remember never forget the expression on her face like while at. Why did you guys really good worth she's? Like you mean your tat, never told you salute your dad and he didn't do it. He did say one bad word about her. Now, one one bad word and, and she broke his heart and dude. You ve got
this picture that your dad drew in the book and against the things that the book is they get the book or this book you've got another book out called soul boom. This book is called the bassoon king get the book. It's freaking fascinating to read, but you've got this picture in there that your dad drew, and it's like it's disturbing. It's like your dad's, Laying on an altar and there's a woman, and she got a knife in her hand, and it says it's an operating table and it's like he's being like toward, heard by her ass, his naked doctor, very its very crazy and but your dad never told you never told me now that was that you know he knew he had some real integrity around stuff? Like that, you know. In fact I was like my dad rarely set about word about anyone that such a good way to be. I recommend that course of action for pretty much all humans.
and when you mentioned okay, so your dad gets divorced. Your dad gets custody, which I guess you'd be. You probably didn't know how that was happening, but I guess, if your mom's doing all this crazy stuff, he was probably able to make it work. He will never happen and nineteen signals help how babies didn't go with daddy a snug I mean. Maybe it was just the fact that she couldn't supported your head, carrying who had no option. He had number bodies dreadful be able to manage. They love you and I know, but he gets, remarry, some old woman named christian and, like you said they moved in nicaragua, you said there's some highlights definitely got some highly nicaragua. Here's some highlights
Nicaragua. I remember kristen getting caught in quicksand on the muddy beach and being pulled out of the sinkhole by a guy with the tree branch. I remember a friend of ours emerging from the ocean. After a swim, he was screaming and falling to his knees covered in jellyfish stings. I remember running and flying kites on the hilltop with the local kids, all of them barefoot me and giant rubber boots. That cheese grated my ankle bones. I remembered one day the local equivalent of halloween when terrifying men dressed as devils in outfits adorned with wings, ran around with fireworks? They would chase kids pick them up and scare the holy bejesus out of them by tickling them and screaming in their faces. I was so horrified that this would happen to me that are fused to go outside. I'm pretty sure this was the work of the the church. Turning a pagan festival into a helpful, traumatic reminder of the evils of satan. I remembered bulls being driven and heard it up and down the mud street, nicaraguan by nicaraguan cowboys who lived in the jungle. I remember the best oatmeal ever made served up by our cook Antonia and the fresh and the taste of
shrimp and fried play, contains what's atlanteans, what's a plantain, it's like it's like a banana kind of thing, but it doesn't have the sweetness and they fry it up. You haven't at all to america is really. I haven't. I've only been a central america couple times what panama yeah? That's it? you go through this list of the frequent animals and you got mosquitoes dogs, parents. You had a pet slav named andrew gap. How do you get it but pats law. Is that legal? Probably not there weren't many laws around there. I mean nick was pretty lawless state, but then the caribbean coast of Nicaragua, which, by the way of on as a buddy of mine, eyes watched his episode talked about nicaragua, but that area. New fields is where I lived where his Theo Vaughan's death. going to do a nicaragua and kenya some going with you. Would you
Providers are delirium, provide security in echo's going, ok So it's it's a really lawless part of nicaragua, minutes it's. It's there's indian tribes, wandered down from the swamps and theirs cocaine, cowboys and it's all different. They barely speak spanish. There is a lot of creole lotta english in its crimes germans and it's it's pretty not out there there's crazy germans and nicaragua, yeah yeah, I'm not in that little part and that little the recent ones that could make it to Brazil maybe there's a maybe there's a nazi. Can I didn't think about that Theo van as a nazi, maybe his add yvonne there was view from there, so it is so many laws. But oh retirement like a slot lost because their pets law, the legality of that debate, two sterical thing which
I have vague memories of the sloth in the cage, but I don't my dad would always tell this story that they will put my the sloth in the cage and then every morning they'd get up and the bars of the cage cause sloths, obviously super slow, but really Strong right click I go in slow bars would be pulled open and the slav wouldn't be there but they're so slow that, I just had to like walk around and they knew within like thirty or forty feet, then he'd find them in a shrub like pick up andrew and put them back in the cage got bent, bend the bars back and then repeat that every single night, but I think eventually they just put them in the jungle, and we're gonna talk about the worms several other. I well. Is it a bit much we got oysters, we got amoebas, we got monkeys we're gonna anyway, worms, which is like If you want to go, there are another, you do I mean the one
that I self edited and self censored was the opening line which says my most vivid memory of life and nicaragua involve. worms coming out of my butt hole, I'll, let you take it from there. I was going to leave it out. You know. Sometimes you write things when you're younger and you're like this is so edgy and flashy. But now I was going to do the courtesy and we're not going to put it in there, but you know you brought it up. Obviously this is a fond memory of yours. You've got a tough listening audience. I think they can handle this. Now, it's it's! It's not that it's just I had warmed. Most people have worms who get worms down there. That's what happens. You know a little eggs or in the water, bans and what not and then you take de worming medication. But you know what happens to those pesky low buggers while they gotta come out somehow there not coming, this way, so I remember a walking down the street and then all of a sudden and to my christian, my stepmom, like mama gotta, go poop,
and it was like when I reached down and pulled out a worm where then this, then this knife wiggling, and there were butscha neighbourhood kids around and they saw this happen and they were like right through it on the ground and everyone how to say like kill, in spanish my stepmom, was like more today, our men, where, whatever to kill it like some kid can with a shovel, and they were stabbing it and and crush it's a that had just come out of my butt. And then they laughed at me and mocked me. That's why I have the personality that I have. I I mean em down there. No, what's that just your bread, you should have ended up in the your mom's asylum in north, the kind out anyway. This outrage meant around here, you get down with the worms. You end up. Moving back to washington state in nineteen, seventy one That's your next move in and you weren't,
We quite sure it seems like why you move back there, What was the reason for that they just ran out of money, nicaragua, they my dad, tried a bunch of different venture business ventures. Ah he had an oyster farm for a year or two. So he was they just oysters chalk block with oysters and he was shipping them up and sending them to like nice, hotels in managua and shipping, some back to the united states and stuff, but there was so much corrupt and that everyone wanted a piece of his profits. You know, and I couldn't the work and they just the kind around money in came back so they got a job in the sewer company in her family sewer company nice You say this in the book my fate he was poor. Not Food stamps are haiti poor, but poor. We rented a two bedroom cinder block house with a dirt yard. In olympia, my dad got a job working with kids at the high school. It was a program for juvenile delinquents and troubled teens, just out of jail. He taught
in english and spanish made five thousand six hundred dollars year actually have my idea how we lived off. Of that christian was a housewife as most women were in those days and had never learned to drive for some reason socially truly a stay at all mom, I remember my dad's shaggy juvy, often by the house in their bell, bottoms and leather fringed, vests christen, would stare as if the Manson family had just stop by for a chap Here's our remember our poverty. We drove in old, used Ethel from the if these and then a nineteen seventy two powder blue ford pinto, replete with it, floating gas take a drink power milk, instead of regular and got all my those from the salvation army. I had about seven toys and eleven books and stared in awe and wonder at the grip at the nip knobs and the rock EM sock offs. You don't remember things from the seventies. No, I didn't have it's like it's a toy in. It sends a little ping pong balls for thing you took and they had like stretch.
Strong nor armor sought on Roma were those guy was one of those conflicts can opt out at once. if by me, normally when I'm reading stuff like that- and I see something I don't recognize- I I look it up. I didn't do that with ganache. Not really did not come prepared to. She kind of a shortfall rocket aachen, robots and light bright and long darts and twister's in vibrating electronic foot. Electric football sets the other kids in the neighborhood played with we never took vacations and eating out was a complete luxury. I do too. It's usually bob's big boy, shaky pizza or this crappy restaurant that overlooked the local bowling alley. Where I once found a rubber band in my cheeseburger, we never owned a washer and dryer and or weaken, was always marked by a major trip to the laundry mat where Kristen washed her clothes for the week, and I wandered around trying to fish quarters out of the machines. So there you go, you go the good times times and it so funny, because you don't. I didn't feel that power
I'm in my friends had nicer toys, but I wasn't gonna live in my life like we're so poor, but it was I wonder how old kids are when they start to realize, like what money is, how much they have or die? Not a junior high adolescent thing we're all of a sudden, like you have this like you're, twelve or thirteen you have this like, burgeoning realisation of like who you are and how you fit in, like a and like being twelve and like oh, I, one of the nervous and all they do, though I don't like me and they don't play with me in life and let you know that realisation of like where you fit in the social strata like not a lamb, nerdy and poor, and think how you hang up had me down pants and the whole nine yards, so my parents were both school teachers, which is not a high day, job and I mean it, but you always had a job. You know that was nice, like my parents always had a job
and so we always had food. You know I remember but we do have like the cool stuff. You know like everything that you just mentioned, like that electric football If you set up your moves and your plays, I saw it, but I never had it never had the rock em sock, em robots, the light think one of my sisters had the light brilliant thing: light bright make them things with LA it's fun. Making things would like bright. I remember all the commercials from early seventies, yes and you put your family. Obviously enough money have a tv reality. because you start talking about tv and this is how would you right now, fifty six, fifty seven, fifty seven? Ok, I'm turned fifty two. In a few days, so yeah. All the stuff is like very familiar to me. Welcome in the fifties, man. Science, everything it's going down, everything's been gone: downhill Adams, family mash
all my family, Laverne and shirley threes company happy days double care, Cincinnati and taxi I'm assuming that you just watched all these television shows all the time, because that's what we did That's when I say we, I mean the united dates of america. You're, sick yeah. We got a cold, delete. That's what we did it's it's interesting now. Everyone talks about parents, you know with kids in tugboat like screen time like limiting screen time, because now there so many more options like my son can open his phone and he can go on social media. He can play a game. You know or an app or he can watch youtube, which has team billion videos on it, you know, or he can get netflix on. His phone or he could turn on a tv or can turn on his computer. Do this, and these are no there's just all these options seventies black
Why rca turn it on and just three channels? And then whatever was on was on but boy they knew how to do those reruns. yeah? I was you know. One of these. I won't say I was latchkey kid cause might eyes best at mom. Christian was at home, but it was tv was just on from three p m till I went to bed at eight p m, o connor raised me, and can it taught me about the outside world we have to get there now. But I talk about this and saw bomb about how two of my favorite television shows from the seventies. Ah for me, were kind of taught me about spiritual. Quality and the woman. You know therefore do talk about king. I can cross pollinate them to books, you wherever you want them, so kung fu was a show. A lot of young folks, don't know about, could not play its. It's so boring to watch is why? But it's brilliant. So
chinese, shall lynn, monk, marshall, artist, kung fu master, goes to the old west and wandered around he's. Looking for his brother to his own is encountering like these racist guys and like aggressive, mean guys and he's very peaceful and he tries to like solve all the conflicts. But then there has to be a couple of ass, kicking fights throughout the course of the show and the other show that met so much to me was star trek. I just I lie the original series I saw. Every episode like ten times I had one or two star trek books that had like how the it worked and stuff. I memorized it, and yeah it when I was writing more about spiritual themes later on in Seoul boom this last couple years, think about. These two shows is like, a parallel of our spiritual journey, because kung fu is like our personal spiritual journey that we all have. We are
all. We have our skill set. We have ways in which we, you know. With forces that come at us and we seek to be eyes, or kinder gentler to grow our spiritual qualities as we go about our individual path in the world, but the star trek stories interesting, because I find it to be a very spiritual story, because it's about humanity has gone to world war, three and which was horrific and its come together, united as a species on the planet and out of unity and they because of technology like the replicator they're able to feed everywhere and though the races all get along and there are able to go out in outer space and boldly seek out new life, a new civilizations- and this is like the the collective spiritual journey that humanity is on, and that's one of the points of the book that I make an soul boom is like we're not put enough.
as on that story like when people talk about spirituality, they usually mean church, or they mean some kind of like. I do these three or four things to kind of make myself feel better like meditation or or whatever read, inspiring quotes or whatever, and you know I'm going about my spiritual path, I'm trying to be just more peaceful in my life, let's say, but we don't kind of have a conversation about like hey. Where are we going as a species? And how can we spiritually evolve collectively to kind of make the world better and what is our individual responsibilities to making the world better? Not just making my life better, my family's life better, but expanding that vision of what our family is and and trying to make the world a better place, and we do that in lots of different ways. You can do it through your church can do it just on a community level. You don't have to do some, you don't have to feed.
starving kids in africa and you can, but you don't have to do stuff like that, but that we all have a role to play in a kind of a certain spiritual responsibility, and that was really talked to me by by star trek and thinking about thinking about that collective journey were humanity has kind of matured in kind of realize- its full potential. It's interesting, you think about when you sit here and talk about that, you Think that look, everybody watched our track right and how many but miss the whole idea of hay work were working together to try and go towards a more common beneficial since rio and with kung fu. it's just interesting to me- that our what does it take, and I mean I guess I kind- of no- your life story a little bit for red near your books, but ye
not everybody gets there, you know not everybody gets there. as people that are just mad. There's people Are there not happy unless they're undermining someone else or taking from someone else or make? Who you know? I am, I know of No many people like this in my life and it's interesting to think about, like I'm thinking about again having just read your books and thinking about even what you just said about your mom, coming back to you and your fifteen or sixteen years old and how they had such a big impact. like what if she didn't, she didn't do. That is at the thing that made you start saying: oh you know she helped me. I should help other people, or I should good about whoa. This is where I, this we're supposed to be doing this. What should be doing in a year wonder? where those where those holes they don't get filled in what are they get filled in width?
If they get filled him with something negative, if your mom would come back and been like I've, never tat you you look back in whatever would you have been? Would you ve taken all left turn instead of a right turner right turns out of a left, her yeah? That's that's fascinating. In I, I love that that whole way of thinking and in a part of their in out. Sometimes there are big. It's a bad I think people are more understanding of it and appreciate of it appreciative of it these days, but it's been one of the great things about therapy is to kind of unravel this really complicated childhood that I have and had and be like. How did it lead me to be the man that I am today and doing the work that I'm doing today as a goofy actor as a storyteller as a producer, but also as a writer? Someone is interested and kind of spiritual themes and topics as
How do you know? How did that? How did that come from? But I do think that you know a lot of parents want their kids to like do good or do good in the world or gives leslie or whatever, but the parents are doing it and I think we learn it from the people around us. You know you hear people about that. Do great work. You know in service to others and they'll be like you know, why'd you do that more. I saw my grandfather doing that. Where I saw my dad whenever my mom would always go to church early and do the the meals at the soup kit or or whatever it is that you know we mirror that baby you're, so its super important for parents to understand that that thing you know its deeds, not words. You know you got a practice what we preach. And so I have a lot of people around me that were trying to make the world a better place in a lot different ways: a group, a member of the high faith.
and you know behind her often working trying to make the world better in doing service work in looking at buys look at service itself as an act of worship, so that idea that in a we give to others is, is really the ultimate just like in Jesus is example, you know you know serving the poor and the downtrodden his is. A kind of worship sk in it in and of itself, sir you're, putting this together posts situation, but in the seventies, when you're watching star trek you dislike mrs freakin class, just call laser guns, they me up and then you, you got this again. You got this section in your book. We are talking about comic sidekicks, you go through all again. All these characters are characters that I grew up with as well: squeaky from Laverne and shirley radar, o'reilly from mash up revel
Jim ignat, how ski what a great name from taxi less nest: men from the uk, our p horse, from welcome back carter. You you you go through those characters you actually ever a guest off. That comes in right. Dwight case comes in and rights, his opinion of each votes, riches which has really funny get the book and in it we're too, like you, you mention your dad was you know doing his day. and a blue collar job and then he's doing this kind of wild stuff at night. Writing all these books. In doing this are you gotta listen to some of the books. your dad wrote a hint. I gotta run through these titles ghosts of e r. Is that what I say I have you have not yet ghosts of ear. Curse of get tat, move the chrome kid, the sub ways of her clarissa of tube? arizona hospital, our fits all explained, arizona hospital set in the far post, apocalyptic future and
the only places the only institutions that are still working our hospitals, so there's like arizona, hospital, minnesota hospital, virginia hospital and that's humans have congregated to fight off the legions of mutants that always attack in the hospital and the lead characters. Name was romeo sierra, which you know call signs romeo, sierra, and that was that was the heroes most of these don't even exist anymore. I don't know what happened all as it was before like worked for ancestors. He was on typewriters. He was writing these things on another mention now you have amazon publishing, so he could have written these things and published them tomorrow afternoon, and they might have done well and people can be like. Oh my god have. You read tentacles of the dawn which the one that did get published. Yes, you have a copy of tentacles. I have I have anytime, they come up on Ebay. Now I shouldn't tell people this by the tentacles of dawn, so I can have it in my collection but yeah. I've got like seven or eight tentacles of don. We have blown out books lead off covered some old.
kind of historical out of print books, yeah and just got here, and I would but I would by a couple copies for you know four dollars or three dollars a ninety nine cents or something, and then we do upon. Asner, two hundred and eighty dollars, or one hundred and fifty dollars so yeah. If you are looking for tentacles of dawn right now, good luck to pay a pretty penny it's about job, go and meanwhile your nerving out Thank you say this in the book up before noting was cool useful on d and e dungeons and drag as you are ragged are the radical yahoo, this your character, that you play eleventh level fighter, adept with both bow and sword with a moral alignment of chaotic which really article with it with a moral alignment of chaotic neutral, which meant he could do whatever he placed. How ingenious was that the inventors of dungeons and dragons that you have moral align men of your characters. Law,
full good, which is like paladins, chaotic good, which is like I, the loan ranger like he's, doing good buddies off on his own, just kind of doing it in his own way, not part of any structure and then there's neutral, chaotic, neutral, lawful, neutral than evil chaotic evil, and so you know what the dungeon mass You know a few. If you start to do behaviour, that's different than your moral alignment than your moral alignment. Changes in the dungeon master can change that so its fascinating. I love you, If you didn't nerd out and didn't do dd, so you beat up the kids who play d and d, so I knew jackass. Well, you gotta you're, going to use your name as Jocko and it's not like nurse order by buddy jason gardeners seal with with me for many many years? Thirty years he did but he's like heavy d n. It he's no stranger to putting otto pudding
shade mail and picking up a broad and pope picturings, pretty extra himself, honor, on instagram or whatever, but the eye So I remembered the indeed- and I probably tried to play like four times or something and was just idle coding. couldn't get into an echo charles. Could you get into did even haven't annoy vaguely remove from tat? None of them, yeah, but I did get the ok, that's the most politically correct answer. You never heard of it, but you did for the the chaotic neutral I I I saw that spectrum somewhere and I was like oh that makes sense yeah. I didn't know where it was from yeah. So now, like you, talk about in the book. You were you keyser, full on salon. Have you ever seen alarming. Larping sure Have you ever done it? I haven't done it, but I've. I've watched a candle harping on about alarming, fast
Well, you know what they call it does. The arctic are much back to cause. I'm a spectator, unlike the popcorn. Am I down here in San diego. They have like a bat and speaking of jason gardener. He would send me pictures like once a year they have like a full contact. Fighting without swords all shields and stuff like yet it not getting. I think it is good, you can t radios on youtube and it's it's real and people get hurt and they get like their arms cut off here, so that is nonsense. you do. He could be innovative, get actually bash people in Jane mail with a morning stars, let us that does so much fun. So now we would get out a we get out of school, no joke This is not an exaggeration. We would get out of school at three o clock by four o clock. We were my friend Sean Higgins house and I remember Sean Higgins house, because his parents were divorced and the
I had was a fruit importer importer. Exporter of route so they never had anything. They were really poor. Big catholic family, suburban seattle there's never food around that the oil had boxes of fruit everywhere and allow It was going bad, so was like stale fruit, stale basement fruit, so but it was cool because we could go like you. Like hey. Do you have any food? It's like. We don't have any food, but we got this creator pairs. You know. Oh cherries just came in so we would like. We and we've just been shitting and rolling. The torrents are also dies and eaten fruits and occasionally we'd splurge for a pizza, but we would play so we would play from on Friday night foretell Levin saturday morning, we'd reconvene like ten a m and play tell a lie.
and twelve, however late we could make it straight some, you know: we'd get some food in there, somewhere sunday, we would meet again like eleven or twelve aft think after he went to church after Shaun Higgins and his brother TIM Higgins was a dungeon master after they go to church. play from like one too like six and then from six to nine at night. That's we did our homework for the week. How will do with this time, there's just like between ten or eleven. Unlike thirteen for itself multiple years. Many years are two or three weekends: a month was that schedule damn yeah, just gettin after that, the indy I'll? Just it's all about the treasure at all, but the loot and these are getting levelling up you're. Not really you win. Can you can winning it's it's like life jack. I just keep going forward way. I just we're something for roma from Dundee storm. Bringer was this a sword.
Storm bringer, I rest sword called storm brigade. Storm bringer, is tat of iran when a nerd out of a fantasy novel by Michael, more cock about alaric of melded bonus, and his sword was called storm. Bringer was was a storm bringer series of books of good memory as from door books from like nineteen sixty eight through seventy eight, and that there was a big inspiration for de indeed, but that soul. You do not want to go helping with storm bringer cause. If it kills you it sucks your soul into so no afterlife forget the afterlife storm bringer what about naming weapons, some occasional guys would name their machine. Oh, I and my friend had- and he had had a machine gun and his eyes the best name ever had a machine gun, its name was road block, and I just That was a very pretty cool roadblock. He bent over the world
robot okay. So, your for one, if you if going full this nerd stuff. if people think I'm making funny you. This is all the self admitted nerd activity, s ripe, I'm not talk honor! You have no problem with us. I own this chapter five. I was not a name, Can we dislike Get that out of the way we just say that I dont know how to hit pier some rather walk out. I say about: I do not accept the shelf. This is roadblocks radio chapter five. just when you don't think it could go any more nerd chapter five. The bus I ask you to over the following sentence. For several years. Often on. I was a member of the following clubs at school.
Jeanne band, pet band, orchestra, debate, club computer club, chess club motto, united nations and pot recovery, note the above list does not include any of my aforementioned roleplaying gaming. Behind youth activities, medieval Weapons sketching kung, fu movie obsession or vast columbia, record and tape, club cosette collection, featuring journey sticks, asia, and mario speed wagon and you big tangent about the whole lot that whole scam, the columbia record tape club. I remember that thing too. I never got can afford the whatever even get in the programme in the first place and then If that wasn't enough, I decided to play the bassoon boom universal.
Explodes then implodes, then explodes again quickly. Folding in on itself only create infinite. Other bassoon shaped universes, so the bassoon. What's up talk to me about the bassoon, you want to get into position look I don't want to get into it, but maybe a brief description of peak it. I didn't. Do it let's go. No man is a deal. You start. You start on a ban on the recorder, that's cool, then the like. Ok, your instrument, you know and sixth grade right, did you guys play at all bandit. I live. I made it to recorder, court in our past record, ready to go to tom, better earners. I got editor I gonna base and a guitar let's go so then I went to clarinet, ok, whatever and then plato or saxophone on the side, and then I wanted to play. Saxophone sacks of ones are com, and I talk about that. Like the saxophone set, they could wear hawaiian shirts and have sunglasses like bill. Clinton was going
like doing the rock em soccer. rock and roll saxophone right and, and then I saw I said that band teacher, whose name was and am not kidding you. His name was john law, John Harbaugh yeah yeah, and I was like MR law. I want to play the sax and it's like we've got enough sax players, but I've got something really cool for you. I have got an instrument everyone is gonna flip, it's amazing, it so cool. It's called the pursuit like. I was very susceptible at that point. After my long forty eight hour week, long dungeons dragons, I wasn't thinking straight am I signed me up profile due to the emphasis he got right. An idea he is like girls are gonna, be all over. You I licking airbus's. Sorry, sorry, so but soon as a boy, double red instrument, you assemble at its like this big you
could around your neck and is in its it's pretty big. You know, and then it sounds like this. So I spent years plain the beast it's actually got pretty good and I was like you know: that's another. You talk about these life choices, There's another there's parallel universe, where the sky, is a professional soon, as with the saint Paul symphony orchestra, so they gotta I urge that bassoon bullet. Despite all this nursery you're still can't you could still do in some rebel issue tight. He's your forking lawns and toilet paper trees you get rolled up by the police at some point adieu yeah. I spent my time I did my time.
Eleven minutes wars park, washing police precept, my parents being called it the two in the morning we were out, we would we call ourselves a taco terrorists, because we would do unusual things to people's minds and one time. With. We would undoubtedly with tacos oak. We would go to like up by stale tacos in big in bulk, and then we put them all over. We get like come shaving cream and make like shaving cream tacos and cover peoples, on a talker. So we were imaginative queen logic, target assholes like assholes from school, yeah yeah Sometimes friend, assholes like front like they're, really our friends, but we kind of like wanted to get them, and sometimes it was like just the the asshole jocks did. They were to seek retribution no not really denies maintain anonymity. We did, except to the police, that that crack police force of life force park wash in arrested
arrested us. We were into a seven eleven. I too am to buy eggs and bought out all the eggs from the seven eleven and the there. The cashier guy was like hey marty down in the precinct. We got a bunch of twelve years by an exit, the seven eleven. You might want to roll up on this and boots and they were some reports of people's houses getting toilet paper lobby searcher pockets? Here we didn't know like our rights like hey, you can search me. What's a probable cause here and So then we put him, then the parents got called, and I was a boy. I did my time in the big house nineteen, eighty two or sixteen years old and you and moving to chicago this is all in the book and get funny ass stories details or in the bucket the book but unit moon chicago, and
there's a transition that happens here, especially amusing, Well, we'll start with a musical transition. So you know it was billy squires air, supplying it with sticks and, as other lame music you get to chicago, not actually didn't cover, really where this introduction came from, but you get the chicago and all of a sudden, its violent firms, its crew screw. Do it's the clash, joint vision, psychedelic first be to choose, acts, joy, division, english, be talking heads and black flag, yeah right on, hell yeah yeah. There is we're. How does it happen? Well, it's it was this weird con that was being played in the american people and may not have happened in California. Has people in california cool in seattle in the late seventies early eighties. The only way you could get music was through columbia, records and tapes club
or an because no one had any real money to go by into a record store and air. We bought some records, but even at the record stores you didn't find punk rocker, new waiver indy rock or any of that kind of stuff. And dumb the radio stations casey, okay and k eyes w all they played was classier rock Rob, which is pretty awesome. I love my classic rock, but that's but there's a whole other world going on at that time. You know that we do. didn't they didn't play any of those songs, and so am I wrote I'll, never forget like this girl. I can't remember her name: we've got to figure out her name from from my seattle school she's like listen to this and she america, that tape and it was early police legs and yacht among dot on one side, and it was the clash like on the other side,
gimme. Another cosette later was like Elvis costello, unlike early kind of talking heads. That was one way more punky and I was like oh my. I had no idea that this world of music existed. That was angry. Crazy and when we got some like lack sabbath stuff, but not like this really smart, edgy, weird experimental, music and so I was on hours all in all of a sudden on that. that actually happen. While you were in seattle, your ass, was leaving yeah other was the summer that I laughed and then you get so you get to chicago now, your kind of like into that music out and as I can you're. My whole wardrobe get rid of minority wardrobe I buy tie with a piano he's on anyone and a scar tie with the checks the scar like english bead specials and yeah. I were like
it was a john Hume movie. I basically walked into a john use movie such that's when you got the chicago yeah This is also a kind of I believe whether the acting started because you're in Mister wootten, bergs acting class If she wants he tasks, you guys we is disappointing. Figured you'd enrolling acting was your elective, these get thrown in their careers late. This is one of those things right always in we talked earlier about, like all the comic sidekicks on the tv shows that are used to watch Whatever reason, even though were met an actor in my life. I didn't know that my birth mother had done acting. I just have this. I want to do that. I could do that and I dont know what it was. I don't know where that comes from god or comes from within. I don't know like onto acting that's what I want to do.
So here's my chance would go to chicago. Has a great theatre department in this big high school in the suburbs, and I sign up for an acting class, thus really my first acting class and then Yeah so our first to sign on the new kid with my piano tie and signs called up public and private or private and public my cat? like how would you act in your room, just be what you would do in your room, so I brought in our like a record play and I put on Elvis costello's song, mystery, dance and and I put it on then. No one knew me and I just went because this is what I would do in my room. I just resigned dancing around unlike air guitar and thrashing around and pole going in and abroad. The house down and
All of a sudden. For the first time in my life, jacko welling girls talk to me in all of the queue girls in the acting class, came up and were like hey. Patty man, hey you're, when you're new here or from night piano tie where you sit at the law to table with us. We sit over here, say hi, my name's, you know, and we made up of these girls in and they were just like that was so funny that was so great and I was just like those like tat said: fucked up I'm in I'm all in with the drama nerds now and I found my tribe, cover this in the book I had crossed over, not from them we cliche of unpopular popular I'd crossed over within shalt sub john raise. You see
move from the regular old geek nerd to the very top of the geek nerd hierarchy, drama, heard at the reason that drama geeks are at the pinnacle of the food peered pyramid of geek them. It's not the time the comedy logo or cats pins on the raincoats. It's not the boy I wonder, on the boys and girls, neither the ability to burst into song or a tap dance in the school all way at the drop of a theatre reference. No, the thing that up, theatre dork from the rest is one word: you guessed it girls. There were and are an We will be pretty girls who sing and dance and act an improvised and joke around and are willing to make fools of themselves, and this is a most important point of all and there- to hang out with geeky guys and even go to wrap parties and occasionally make out with them. This sets up drama geeks as the lions of the dark serengeti.
So that's how it went down ass. I went down here now, looking back at that point, Are you dont any sports at all? No sports, tis, p p. You now guess what you're He preacher of clothes that you wear all week and then you forget to bring them home on fridays, see like africa wherever the next week and they just re, dank and you're. Doing kick ball and stuff like that. So, but you know I I played subscribe. I play I play tennis play tennis. Hm and your grades are good yeah straight a's straight a's or you Utah you're, trying in school yeah I try yeah smart. I read books, yeah.
Do you have a rock n roll band yeah? You don't play the bassoon in iraq, and now I do the singer. The band is called collected, moss right does a rolling stone. Look at you say we were horrible horrible to gaze. I think we had to gaze, not that could be worse. Could be worse you. So now you start applying the college's you get rejected by brown. You get rejected by Stamford yeah you get rejected by berlin is older women, the league of stand our ground hadn't. You just heard in that. I just for balance. I dunno scrag We heard their weird. There were corn. old hippies, but you gonna tops yet
and tulsa grade school yeah? Did you go visit? It yeah? You went visit. You love that immediate area yeah. What did you love about it? I mean it's like it was like seeing those movies of like what ecologists you know. It's like these buildings and churches and trees and a quad. You know in dorms, and it's like this pretty little new england. can a vibe and dumb and they had a really good theory department, so you're thinking, theatre area, I wanted to secretly be an actor. I was studying international relations, psychology, english, but really I wanted to. I knew I wanted to be an actor, but I just I was on the fence about how to how to take that. You're, not a fully commit. You had a roommate rob alike. I think I'm paraphrasing Basically a long haired muscle, dude from arizona, yeah, yeah he's lying exact the kind of guy elicits dear papa sounds like it.
awesome dude here had no, it was. It was cool I'll. Just tell the rob story: real, quick, so I move in to my dorm room, and there's this guy shoulder length hair like bill. He came in his truck. He drove from prescott arizona, Boston he's got his guitars figures. gun rack, I'm not sure if he brought his underscore he's got a jethro toll posters. All over his half of the dorm room and like some velvet curtains and stuff like that, and has borne rife and we couldn't be more different. He doesn't talk to me for two months and
But finally he admits. Finally, we start to talk, and finally he admits like. Oh I I I found out. You went to the suburban chicago high school that was kind of wealthy, and someone told me like. Oh those are that's where rich douchebags go, so I thought you're a rich douchebags. So I didn't talk to you for those first two months, but then, after that we became really good friends and it was awesome. We hung out a ton and he's a great guy. but he's a chef. Now it's like a world renowned chef somewhere here, still rather hair, still looking good. I think the hair's gone yeah, that's a bummer yeah, it happens and you you you kind of talk through the where we talk through already. This is when you cannot vote now really reconnected with your biological birth, mom you're gonna get the backstory on all that and finding out that she had gone through this all acting phase yeah. Do you think that made you this is sort of genetic thing.
I mean. What else could it be? I mean I I mean my parents were really in that they supported me in doing the arts. You know a lot of parents can have kids have an artistic inclination like that's, not practical and they kind of shut it down. Parents were very supportive because my dad really wanted to be an artist and he was kind of like yeah. He was kind of a failed artist ray because he didn't he didn't really apply himself. He didn't try and get his paintings out there. He didn't like really try and publishes books like I, so I had this inclination, but I you know, I didn't know any actors or any like that. It was. It was mind blowing to me at like nineteen, to find out that my birth mother had been an actor for several years and I I was again I was just filled with that longing to go to go down that road soap. I gotta be genetics right, I don't know. Did it scare? You at all, like your dad, is kind of tried. The art thing, but not really,
Getting it done. Your mom sounds like she kind of tried the art thing and now she's not kind of really getting it done. Did you think so? You know we make these life choices. We don't know how they they go down, but here's one thing that I do know that if you want to be a professional artist, you have to devote yourself to that craft to that art to that discipline and hardcore you've got to give it ten years and you've got to work sixteen hours a day at it and there's no other way. I mean there are some actors that have stumbled into it and other artists that have kind of fallen into things and that's all fine, but that's not. That's not the standard rate, so here I am growing up. I have failed artist, dad kind of a failed artist, more
and I know I have this longing to do- acting I'm pretty good at I'm, not like this prodigy, but I'm pretty good at making people laugh and playing characters and and stuff like that, and that's when I'm like okay rain. If you're going to do this, you have got to give yourself to it and commit your life to it and your work to it and you're one hundred percent of your focus, and otherwise you will never make it. So I in that way. I am grateful for what my parents taught me from what I from what they didn't do and the choices they didn't make. I remember having conversations with my dad when I was twelve or thirteen I'm like how come you never go and try and sell your paintings I a well, I went once or twice and they rejected them, and I just don't really have all these excuses and even at twelve or thirteen, I'm like no just take your paintings go down to the art gallery isn. You know knock on the door and say hey. I got this really cool paintings, you should sell em and
he would never sell himself. So when I finally made the decision to be an actor. I knew that this was gonna, be really important decision because I was gonna have to go all and there's no half asking it, and you know Europe both feet in and so I applied to acting schools I left college. I was at that point. I was at the university of washington in seattle and I you know I edition I moved to new york city. I was twenty years old. I didn't have a pot to piss in. I had like three hundred and seven dollars in the And you know I went and when you went to acting school, I'm like a man to win it and I'm gonna do twenty years as long as it takes. Ah I'm all in, but I'm so great I'm grateful because I knew what the alternative was that if you just kind of try it and like it, but don't fully go in, I see where that
takes you and it's also no guarantee that you could go a hundred per cent in and you can dedicate urine higher life to music art acting and you can still be working as a waiter or whatever I was. I spent the first ten years of my life as an actor I never made over twenty grand and a year first, ten years of working as an actor those most doing it or I couldn't get enough tv and film. No one would audition makes us kind of weird looking. They didn't know what to do with me, so yeah, and but I just can't go in. I just kept going and then came out to a and jobs, and then, ultimately, the office but a lot of times. I was thinkin about about pull the plug, who apply so you apply to juilliard and you didn't get it heading it enough. Then you you auditioned it and why you and
There is an interesting thing that you talk on the book. You you're doing this. You see monologue from long days journey into night. Whichever watched on youtube, could I do research things? One research things when I want to. I wouldn't want somebody doing it It was interesting, a woman named zelda, fitch slander for chandler forgotten Gloria. She told you like take all the performance out of it Yeah so was like you were going over the top. Acting come in my audition, like africa, first line is, like you told Stories about your life, you wanna hear some of mine. They all have to do with the sea. Here's one action that cash and then I and then he tells us more about being on this boat right, which really
happen to you Jeanne only other playwright. He was a merchant seamen and sail round the world on these boats. So he was telling the story him. You know I did it and my did my performance and seen in aren't she's like a game shut up, stop at like just then there was a guy. There was like the dude there, the dean I just, pretend he's your dad look at him and just just say the words. I start again. You told me some start known her step after she she's just just talk to him. Like okay, you tell him No, no, not literally just talk to him like you're. Having a conversation, I'm, like you, told me some stories about your life. You want to hear some of mine and then she's like keep going. They all belong to the sea. I remember one time when I was on and I connect did with. I started to cry like I was just he started to cry like we had this like at all. For that
acting ass. It is and all this drama club it's like him, and so she is like bone. Come the new york kiddo, so now it's on nineteen, eighty, six new york city, city at that time was man. ugh everywhere you gang o. They talk about now like on fox news, the deterioration in american cities, which is happening, but dude go to new york and nineteen and the nineteen. these crack epidemics graffiti everywhere, dilapidated you know, De lots, broken bottles. People I mean it was. It was killed. This is when I was going to new york. Salzburg our group in connecticut- and I was like into the hard coursing entered upon proxies, and so I was going into new york city We take the metro north train down, it cost eight dollars. I bring like twenty bucks
with the weekend. Eight dollars to get down eight dogs get back four dollars for pizza, yeah and we'd. Go to cbgbs we go to whatever shows were going on. We go to the new music festival we going to just mayhem, but that place was totally insane at that time. Yeah It was crazy, like walking through times square was. I'm not kidding. You took your life in your hands on not kid. every four steps that you took, somebody offered you crack or coke, or whatever Unlike literally every four steps cycle, Charles dude, they would go. I would go down on eighth or ninth avenues. as I had a girlfriend, I was living in new zealand and I buy stolen calling card member calling cards like a sprint calling card and you'd have to trial an eight hundred number and then boop boop boop boop. In order to make- and I would buy stolen calling cards for like twenty bucks, but I would get two hundred dollars worth of calls off of them, but they were, I mean they were offering like. Here's
stolen license plates do need a passport I mean there was. You could get in fact is the dark, web was on the trees on the street. The the hookers would be out it was easy, like we'd go to a show, we'd leave it. Not good night or eight o clock at night to go to this to go to show somewhere. in on the low reside, and we walk in, and you see the the hookers out and they like looking nice for the night and then we'll come back at three o clock in the morning and they still be there now they're. Looking like you know, they ve been workin all night. It was freaking horrible to see the horror and so new york was totally insane at the time you got. Say: mugged, slash, attacked a couple times there you got, you got hit networks, by random, you got gay bashed yatra, which I found interesting yeah. I got gay bashed, yeah yeah. I couldn't sleep and walking like one. I am I was living in chelsea at the time
which wasn't even a gay neighborhood, really at the time it kind of became one later, but it was kind of they used to sell drugs up and down seventh and eighth avenue. So it was kind of dangerous, as is eighty eight and I and I went down and there were a couple of guys and they they were like call me out. I dunno what I can say the f word and the mighty com and some other things, and they just started swinging at me, and I wanted to be like I'm straight. but for some reason I was like I did you're gypsies, shit like they couldn't live the punch coming for some reason I got so instantly. I didn't I didn't punch back, but I was like Woo Hoo It was like slow mo matrix, it was like have you ever had that happen in a fight you can kind of see it like, and then I took off and the gun jumped in car and they took off your me. He's will determine do they really wanted to bash. Some gay said that weren't really get caught
gay, like metro, second gay natural. How can a letter or by one have metro bash? and I ran down like thirteenth, which was the wrong way, and then I crawled under a staircase under by some garbage cans and pull the garbage can back in. And I was just yeah and I stay there for forty five minutes and then made my way back room What do you do at acting school. Well, jocko, What do you do in acting school people watching us alive What the hell do glimmering lack of general pleased about leadership, trying to figure out what did you do it acting school now I will say this. Acting is not easy, because people think it's easy people think I could do that and then they try and do it may look like idiots
and the really good actors make it look so simple. They make it look like Brad pitt when the best actors in the world he makes it just look like just fruitless, less really hard to new and brad pitt does really in that what they teach you at this acting school thing, although he never went, acting school but terrible example button. Yes, so you know the whole. In acting school is we're going to teach you how to be theater, artists, theater actors, and from that you can do tv, and if you have that skill set- and you can do tv and film so that it wasn't really like on camera stuff. We did a little bit of that. But so we did shakespeare. We did the clowning we did circus skills we did, which is all about physical kind of courage and daring and kind of putting yourself out physically out of your comfort zone with a tight rope. Appease juggling. Does everyone knew this? Is these like their general qualifications for acting?
his travels everyone in this programme did. Did it and its again, you know: there's some fat kids in there. They couldn't really walk on a tight while prevent ever, but you do what you can do you now in the EU supported We do voice you do speech do seen, study and you do stage. Combat so we did a lot of like sort fighting like we're doing a shakespeare play and learn, learn how to do which comes in handy when you're shooting in film and you have to pretend combat and stuff like that, how to take a punch or fake a punch. You know that kind of thing and I, and the main thing you do is seen study. Where you go. You you work with your scene partner, you memorize your lines you come in and they they give. You notes on it and stuff like that, and there were some amazing teachers and I was really lucky and you played hamlet twice: yes, how that yeah,
We we did hamlet, they cast me as hamlet, ah, which was an credible experience, and then the guy who directed by directing it was really bad. ad director and I was totally lost and we would have a rehearsal and then he would give me a grade on how I did in the rehearsal so would ride. I think like so? We've got a course that you're taking know is just a side play on the side of the courses we would do plays on the side, okay evenings, but it's part of the college. Yes part of the college, doing Are you gonna credit for it? Doesnt work that it's just like you're going through this programme and you're there from nine in the morning till eleven at night, every single day. Well, five or six days, weak and part of It is doing play. So it's not really picking and choosing courses. This kind of so he I went to my main acting teacher. I was in tears
I am so lost. I don't wanna play hamlet, I don't know what to do and then he and watched some rehearsals and he's like. Oh this guy's an idiot and then he fired him and he took over so we shut down, and then I had another chance. We had done like two weeks of rehearsal, shut that down and then ron van lew, an amazing acting teacher came in and then he directed me. Hamlet, and it was amazing experience, there's something like thirty thousand words that hamlet speaks in hamlet. How do you go about memorizing that so I knew I was going to be playing him like in the winter and then over christmas break. I memorized all of the hamlet monologues memorized, all the the soliloquy to be and not to be. That is the question. and dumb. So I came in and then I memorized a bunch of his longer speeches before we started working
but what people are assembled like the memorizing lines for small when you're twenty two, it's way easier, you memorize things really quickly, but you're spending hours. It's on your feet, saying the lines and listening and responding and trying it in different ways, and so it's getting in your body. You know what I mean: it's you're, not just kind of like it's hard to memorize when you're just sitting there with a book and you're just like try to memorize it that's almost impossible, but when you're in you're you're on your feet and interacting with people and stuff like that, so we did a big cut down version. So it's probably only twenty thousand words. We cut big scenes out and stuff like that, but it was a lot a lot yeah. I went and saw a version of hamlet and man. It was impressive, oh cool. Where did you see right here in san diego great theatre. In Santiago DE I saw I saw one version at the old globe, which was like the cool one, one of normal one but I also saw another version at some like other
ways- and it was all modern and crazy yeah, but those duties had memorize a lot of work. The thing that why? One of the reasons shakespeare's famous his famous for so many different reasons, that's one of the things that makes him so amazing why people are obsessed with shakespeare, but the fact that in sixteen hundred he's written this play hamlet, that is all about psychology, it's as modern as freud in young and any psychologist, or any christopher nolan movie. That involves ecology in this in sixteen o one? He wrote that and it's all about, Who am I life death? Should I lived I die? Should I kill this guy? Why am I doubting? I should kill I was told to kill him and I don't. Why is that my own failing do. We have souls like I'm.
love with her, but should I tell it like it is all this stuff and that's why that's what made him like head and shoulders better than any one for hundreds of years, not until check If you know two three hundred years later, that all of a sudden playwrights are like an ibsen in strasbourg are like going into this in psychology. We covered Henry the fifth on this podcast, which obviously makes sense, but I was going to do hamlet and I had an an actor that I was that I met that I was like and who had played hamlet, and I thought oh, if I could get them to come on, that would be kind of epic and we just didn't. Haven't pulled it off yet but maybe you're that guy. That's, let's do it on the mama middle aged doughy, deadly white hamlet so that's what you're doing you're doing this that's like a long ass day every day. That's what you're doing have you
you graduate from N y. U and there's one thing that you explain and there's like a draft that sounds like a draft that happens at juilliard. Do you like a couple a couple, his performances or something or the monologues are some things like the n b, a draft. I've never heard it compared, but it is that's what it sounded like yeah, and so you go into this n b, a draft thing or the theater draft that top schools go to this theater and julliard, and we form little scenes for all this. Lasting directors and producers and tv folk in other run theatres and theirs I mean there's, maybe five hundred of them in all of those who of you know in both theater and tv and film watching is totally nerve. Racking. and I was twenty three years old, my seems, kind of sucked, I didn't do very well and I didn't get I'd just played hamlet this. This
there's a good story about how shall business works, these agents, pretty good agents, had come and seen hamlet, they loved it. They call me and immediately there, like, oh, my god, you're hamlet was amazing. That was so great and they talked about it. We talked about it there like ok, you'll, do these league performance as they call and then we'll call you back in and then my bombed at the leak performances It has been a very good and then they wouldn't return. My calls and they didn't bring me. What's a league perform a visit that juilliard thing worker the nba draft for actors is called, that's what they call. Would you and you ve got there's isn't a book, but this is you trying to be like your serious guy. Kind? Well, it was me just try again agent right, that's what it came comes down to. Is that not the moral of the story, is like these assholes had seen me play hamlet, and then they see me do a couple of two minute scenes and cause. I don't do good and those they don't want anything.
With me, but they had seen me play three hours of ham: less em, kind of how superficial businesses? yeah cause. In my mind, it seems like, if you can do him. Are you gonna? Do anything it's seems leered think, but you know get to what your other point about. Like so this like wrong. Idea about what it was to be an actor and that's partially, and what useful? Because I was, I told you know kind of nerdy, weird a different kind of guy, and I was trying to be like mister theater guy. You know- and so I had this idea of like this- is who I need to be and what I need to be and how I need to present myself in. So it took me several years and a lot of hardship to cut a figure out and in I had it seminal experience. That kind of showed me my my road as an actor. Your first acting job, at least from what I could decipher from the book was twelve
night for shakespeare in the parking lot pay to an hundred ten dollars week, so that that was kind of what you'd doing out of the gate. Yet Eventually, you joint something called the act and company YAP, founded by John, Ass, miss John housman, the guy, that he should do those commercial He did the commercials always that show that he was in the paper chase. hey produce what we have to be pretty spokes. Remember about the lawyers and harvard like trying with a really tough professor. He was a tall professor guy and ultimate tough, for he was like I hadn't speak any of that when hoddan, he has really said so you with orson welles he is a big theatre. Tighten he started this company called the acting company and I did two and a half years of bus. Truck tours of shakespeare place, which is
freakin hilarious in the book. Your talk you rolling into like whatever town in the mid west waterloo. I allow you ve got your role in at nine p m. At ten, a m you ve gotta, show in high school cafeteria at seven p m here at that downtown uncle civic club an you doing these shakespeare play two places that have never seen shakespeare before, maybe or not for years, or something like that audiences that so it was. It was cool, it was cold and hard and sometimes sucky, and but I loved it. You know twenty four. Twenty five at that point I was getting five hundred and fifteen dollars a week, our role in it and plus you're. Getting this experience yet see role into Waterloo iowa. Yet what shakespeare player you doing? Is it cover variety show. Yet we had no. We did romeo and juliet and twelve night no two gentlemen of verona and then the next year we did midsummer night's dream so
did you ever perform to like seven people and Four of them walked out. It wasn't that kind of thing, but we would do a lotta like high school theatres and high school. I cafeteria theatres, you nor the theatres in the cafeteria. They open the curtains, and I'll sitting at that, unlike we have food thrown out, ass and stuff like that, we had fun now, where we had five, it was hard and Juno offered you when I was in high school. If we. If I was in that situation, I would have made it I was there, I would have been like such a dare comes, yeah sure I was just an idiot, yeah school assembly year, jacko be there at ten, a m to watch a tune, Our version of romeo and juliet- and you just said, who cares that nice things yeah, but the weird thing about shakespeare. I pointed this out when we want those on the first part ass we did was putting this number fifty actually, but
because when I when I started a lot of shakespeare when I went to college- and it was like- oh you're- not supposed to understand this you can't understand it's written in, middle english tickets, it's it's not the same language and you have to There's some similarities. Obviously, but you need to actually look up with these words and understands structuring and many, then you call holy shit. This guy is incredible, but you the get people through that transition, or buried because they look at it like. Oh, I dunno what the hell this means and if they say oh yeah, read shakespeare, it's great, no they're, not they're lying, because There's words, you don't know you fucked them up a thoroughly, whereas you don't know exactly so. I can imagine if you try to present chokes put me in high school, I saw such a loser. Were you you? Can now a lot of stuff that just makes no sense and then you see you try it
So hard to reach shakespeare and the page in a lot of people get turned off reading it, but you gotta hear it because when you speak it within tension and like you're, like your team, we get something from someone? And so you say love of above What about you hear it in context? It starts to make way more sense in you. You you haven't experience round, will have seen these productions stuff for sure. So. your kind of the other thing. We know you on the road haulage as eames. We would do insane games to keep us saying. I'm one of them was passed, the batteries would have a little like double a battery and it would have to go around every single person in the cast, so over the course of the play it have to figure out ingenious ways. You'd shakes someone's and then there all of a sudden there'd be a battery in it and you're like oh and then you go to someone else. You pull your armor and you drop it in their pocket like the batteries making. It's way around. The other thing
would try and do as we would take. We would find out the mass got of whatever school we were out and then we would train everyone had to incorporate that work so, if they were like the badgers, you know you'd have to say I save ii by bravely liege for went from one. How come I surely that now are no badger say that about and we would all train and the kids. We like Is the word badger seventeen times and this shakespeare play it was that was fun we did. We would do withered hand were at some point evelyn I have like a withered on stage and bunny hop. We would have to at some point incorporate a cop and we got in bad trouble, but fun there was a lot debauchery on the road in that kind of leads into this next section. I want to read from the book. It says here for an art.
east village actor there were simply no room for god, morality or devotion, or at least none that I could conceive of at the time the quest for this tantalizing bohemian street cred during my first year at n Y? U I dyed my hair jet black and started smoking a pipe, the hair dye. I got from a box of clairol midnight like you know, the kind so toxic that there's no Does he ate hundred number right on the box in case you actually dump a concoction in your eyes? I looked ridiculous. The first issue is that I'd forgotten about my eyebrows, the hair on my head was like bruce liese and my eyebrows we're a light. Brown with ginger highlights like a serial killer, who just written a manifesto on the walls of its cabin with his blood and feces and the my aunt windy my dad sister smoke, one always had she was rebellious artistic pipes, smoking, inspiration and always loved rebellious artistic pilots. Pipe smoking spirit. As with things in my life, I was simply trying away too hard. We were such a pretentious lot us.
village artist. I remember having why Ridiculous late night conversation with a bunch of pot smoking artist sites where the quest was poet. Would you ever do commercial? I remember a friend of mine, pause dramatically and considered this disgusting capitalistic question. Quite deep, stroking his goatee, drawing on his candle light. I might you a commercial and then he added heavily, For soil milk, So you guys were region, we were all we were doing bag ass, no question a question You have, you have to find you always find it, most embarrassing thing about me in the book, not the cool stuff. You find like the most humiliating. I thought these parts- okay, yeah, no get the book there's so many there's like like I said I mean I'm reading less. I dunno, probably five percent of the book, there's all kinds of
saying funny stories and, like I said, you're ghost writer did a great job. Damn your jacket, I wrote everywhere. Every word I say some point. You start fast forward right now, you're dating, like a lawyer, slash drug dealer, you gave her. The name. Jesse geared cocaine, comes The picture you say spent countless nights in drunken stumbling, an almost vomiting in taxicabs, beaded speedily through parties in bars. One did red, eyed and high through many late night conversations and woke up desk fried embarrassed and sat on countless mornings during those years good bohemian times. It's weird cause. I guess it was going to new york at this time and, like I would see these keep I probably saw here I in fact, if I didn't see you specifically, I saw your people. I saw them down there. They are down there they were
looking exactly like this if the is well listen. So there is a bigger conversation here which is- and this is a little bit in the bassoon king. I talk about my spiritual journey and I talk about spirituality, moron, books boom, but I grew up a member of the high faith, very beautiful faith. It's all about love and unity in peace and I jettisoned that, like so many of us do when you're twenty years old, you move to the big city, or maybe you gonna military, whatever. your college, jerry. You go, get a job somewhere, whatever your life journey, wherever it takes you and I wanted nothing to do with spirituality and unwanted nothing. You do god and morality, and want to think about that thing. I just adele level what I thought of like a bohemian lifestyle. Just party go crazy. Make art, like you know, live life to the extreme. In that
sense and you know in, and that was good. You know we talked about these hilarious times in the in the acting company. In other or that I did and you know and then more and more dependent on drugs and alcohol. I really realized- now that I was using them to medicate my anxiety. So I wasn't I was occasionally like a fall down drunk, but I wasn't like one of those guys at every time they drink they pass out and in their own. Vomit something like that, but I was you know year two year using a lot of drugs, now call the just cope and just get by my daily life, and I was really unhappy. I was really miserable and this started a journey for me, which was it a spiritual one where I was kind, like this, and I realize now that I was having a lot of mental health issues at the time like I would have anxiety attacks. I was depressed a lot. I was
sperience in extreme loneliness, it didn't sense to me. I was living my dream. We we ve been through my life story here. I am living new york city and working as an actor and suburban seattle. This loser d, kid. This is incredible, and yet I was deeply deeply unhappy. and why am I so unhappy, and why am I filled with so much anxiety and that's what kind of lead me to examine god and spirituality hum as a possible path toward recovery it and at that, pointing twelve step programmes, but I was, I started to really dig deep into god and the meaning of life in you know. Why were here because at that time the warrant podcast of where you could go? Listen to you know you a rich role or someone. That's gonna make you like really think and learn were men and learn about. How this stuff works and the work that,
resources. You know in that in the early nineties at this point are around this stuff. No one did therapy therapy was for really rich people. You know- and I certainly do not money for therapy and you can call- like better help or something like that, so that this is the only thing I knew to do from my childhood was like read about god, and I read the bible. I read the koran. I read the I was a big reader. I read TAT the the buddha. The original works, the buddha bug of hot guitar and started really thinking like Maybe because I threw everything to do out with religion and god and faith and spirituality out the window, maybe I threw the baby out with the bath water and you know maybe this stuff could actually help me. So it was like it was the best of times it was the worst of times I wouldn't trade for the world. I had a mate in time had elapsed, chalk a block
crazy adventures of new york and and and partying in, and it was was fond and great until it wasn't anymore and I pretty unhappy and is trying to make my relationship work with now. My wife, we ve been together for thirty years and you know and that's what sent me on this spiritual journey in and christian and spiritual topics, so that's one of the threads that runs through bassoon king that I really dive into an and sober yeah yeah. No doubt You just mentioned your wife, so at some point you take leave or on what you continents in world convocation. I guess occasion and you go to washington and you had you knew her? But you look around for white pages. We s very romantic and she's in their yeah, and you call Yeah, isn't weird used after like find a person's phone number
and she tells a story really funny. Her in a roommate were so broke. They were like trying to decide like, should we pay the extra seventy five cents a month or whatever it is to have your name listed in the way pages there, like yes, we're gonna, make that investment who know someone might need to look up and call us one of these times. There, she was holly rhine horn, irony She was hot and cool and edgy in and wonder fallen gave her a call in got together and you are kind of like just kind of the romantic dream for her I mean you like this actor guy living in new york city, I moved to new york. I went acting school. I was like professionally actor all. We are satisfied you live here, and I know that there are big time. It all goes back that first drama class, restaurant,
and, and then she ends up moving back to new york with you. It's like a year later and you can't have sounds like you've got like the sickest apartment ever in brooklyn. Like thirteen foot ceilings like yes really as dirt. We logged in to this eight hundred dollar a month apartment that was insane yeah. It was, it said we had huge parties. every great you roll into this chapter in the book that that the chapter title is I bombed on broadway, which is you know, a dozen I'm very good, but it kind of set you in the right motion. Part of this you know you you just kind of talked about this here you are a professional, an actor. Yet you weren't happy at the time right. You you're not happy with the, crazy to think about their. I was not happy and broke and I wasn't exactly sure why out wake up in the middle might deeply deeply sad, alienated disconnected then I would
kick myself. Why are you feel this way? I mean the hood one meeting woman, you have a seat beside you think of all incredible theatre. You doing. You have everything you ever wanted, including a kick ass van. We can you talk, preventing budget, a kick ass man. Your dreams come true and yet still not happy jerk face fast forward a little. But I thought I had started sneaking up. I have fought. That's sneaking, around me at this time? Perhaps the reason I'm not happy as I dont have meaning I dont have purpose I asked my friends about god: the is kind where what you were just talking about you through this, like you said, what you remembered from your childhood and like This could be something there. Let's start digging, and you start that's what you You start digging and as your digging through that you have a good stirabout, darrell strawberry. You asked or darrell strawberries What is the wagon talk on tonker. Would that native american spirit and you pray. Dont want can tonker during this debate. ballgame yeah,
darrell strawberry to get home run to yahoo in sight. I had they struggled with the idea of god like I was really struggling with, like god, dad god I call him sky daddy. The sole boom like this idea of this. Madam page, echo man with a big beard looking down at us all in judging us, and I just really struggled without em. Like china go out and I was reading a lot of native american spirituality at the time, and and the lakota sues word for god is why Kentucky, which literally translates to the great mystery and it's the god of nature and the seasons and beyond time and space, and you could only know this god kind of through nature and through the wind and through the sun and and- and I was like- oh that's- really interesting. So I was talking to my friend about psych- I don't believe in god, but I believe in walking tonka so he's like, prove it
and I was like ok, the mets were down bottom of the knife. Daryl robbery was up and I was like Let's try it and I literally went, walk on tonker, grandfather, spirit, great mystery. If you exist Please help us and have darrell strawberry help win this game. If you show the show yourself. I am not shitting turned the t v. She over the field, walk off home run and the game me and my friend fellows one of my best friends. We still I was just talking to him earlier. We were just like yeah well, but it wasn't enough to convince bell. He still an atheist, but that was is silly and stupid. As that sounds. I was like.
Ok, gotta, keep gone, go down this path, let's see where this goes. Meanwhile, you, get this role, you, don't you delete rona in broadway, shall annually about the rock. In the months we cleaning up the parcels. I grew increasingly nervous. The pressure is building inside. I felt an immediate stress mounting within me about howard need. Really shine in this role. Stressful voice in my head, kept prodding this plague a better agent. This war could lend me a tony nomination. This is my chance to get an amazing new york times review. The pressure contain to increase and build through the rehearsals and eventual performances until you guessed it, I totally sucked in the roth I bought on broadway, but isn't it funny how life works. It turned out to be one of the best experiences of my life in rehearsals. I was stiff and disconnected. I had for some weird reason decided exactly how to play the role in my head. All my choices were pre decided. They were also broad key and strangely puppet, like I could
myself, throwing out all my training and rehearse the play by doing strained line. Reading after strained line reading, I knew I was sucking and I didn't know what to do. I could tell internally and or from the quizzical. Almost sad looks. I was getting from the rest of the cast Joe pulled me aside after a couple weeks and spoke to me quite serious worry about his concerns with me in this role he urged me to relax and just explore and play and have fun in the process in rehearsal process, but try as I might I just couldn't. I was in Ojai pressurize acting rotten, I couldn't sleep. All the sun we're getting close to having an audience I freaked I began waking up in the middle the night shaking it sweating, owls terrified. I knew that was about to suck in my first big show holiday was an I wear at the time. I spent many tearful hours in the middle of the night, with her on the phone should consult and counselled me. That's. Why the prayer started when allows fails. Sometimes you just get on your knees now for help, and I did over and over again I reach out for assistance from one can t
a god, creed or whatever I was stuck, I was lost and terrified. I literally don't know what else do the purse didn't make me a brilliant actor all this but I do believe they were factor in a transformation I made as an artist and as a purpose person. At this pivotal juncture, I start to understand that I've been doing the rule for all the wrong reasons to impress people to gain colleagues to gain fame. I was looking outside myself trying to be something I wasn't for others, london assurance. That's the name of the play your and broke me open like an egg. I didn't want to be that kind of fake ye, all artist anymore, performing out of legation meeting, neediness and desperate need to be likes knew that I ultimately needed to be myself and grew whatever other people thought of me. I felt this new found commitment freedom in my bones, and it was a revelation after
broadway fiasco, I learned how to relax and breathe and play. I embraced the natural nerdy oddness. That was me. I was we're going to be the same formal idea of a classical actor man beloved by asked and directors in the new york times and rocking and ascot The previous one along I did see some eventual improvement. I was able to relax a bit here and there and get a few occasional laughed and the role was a good. No, but at least I wasn't completely horrible, I got off I got mostly poor to middling reviews, but at least I didn't get raped over the coals more important. After the show closed. I was filled with as much great with a much greater purpose and inspiration in my life and work. Keep going with russia. The book is led by seventy. More pages. That's gonna.
This business had a huge impact on me. I should like to know this. This is a story that I tell young people a lot when I speak of colleges in it and it's something you ve covered on your part a lot, but it's like what we learn from failure in oh and again how important failure is in making us who we are. and we cannot in modern society is like failure, is a weakness in its bad and you're wrong and you should never fail, but by sucking in this broadway play an kind of going through the fire. You know I was on the anvil being pounded because it you know, I mean you ve, been in fire fights with mortars, dropping on your head, I'm not comparing it to that, but I will say that when you, your longing is to be an actor and you're doing your first led on broadway and you're. Doing eight shows a week for four or five months,
you suck and you have to go in every single day and perform, and you know you're not good, and you know the audience is like it's really painful, and then caused a lot of soul searching and like I was trying to be mr actor man of new york to get the new york times review, and I get some. Kind of accolades or a tony nomination, and I was doing it for the wrong reasons and trying to be some one or something that I'm I'm inherently not, and after I sobbed and talked of holly on the phone after I was praying on my knees after I was like. I just went through the wringer on this thing. I was like fuck that I'm never doing that again, I'm never going through that again, I'm going to bring exactly who I am to the roles that I play and if they don't like it screw em. I have to be myself. This helped me find my authentic voice as an actor and as a
human being, and I am so grateful for one of the most painful forty five months of my life. I've ever gone through, I'm grateful for it because on that and that forge again no mortars dropping on my head, but on that particular forge. It showed me a path or my fee you're my struggle, my pain, forged me into someone that could eventually plate white on the office. I never would have played dwight on the office if I had not bombed on Broadway. So what I thought was, like the biggest failure of my life, actually turn into the greater success in my life, so embracing roles liked white. Ah, where I could just draw on my own natural quirky ness and I
im up with my own vision of how to play the character, I wasn't when I started Dwight, I wasn't theme at Emmy awards or money or stardom or any of that stuff, and that showed me the way. So it's it's a really important lesson for for young folks, especially to learn. Sometimes it's kind of like you talk to young people and like I'm failing, I'm struggling, I'm hurting good when we're talking earlier about giving your giving a hundred percent right any eaten. You were saying You ve gotta give yourself a hundred percent to acting or writing or what british you're gonna do and I've had conversations with people about two things that are somewhat similar to that, but writing books and doing upon asked right and right now, of course everybody has upon cast right now and you can write books will easily, but
People would talk to me about it, maybe I think I'm going to start a podcast where I want to write a book. That's the two things that a lot of people have said to me in the past ten years or guess it's been seven years or whatever. However long I've been doing this stuff, And one thing that I tell them: is you ve gotta? Do it because you want to do like even this part gasped the if we are to do if someone said hey, or if I sit hamlet, I'm going do upon, casts here's what the pond is going to be about we're gonna, make it for five hours, long, we're gonna talk about war, death. genocide? We're gonna talk about the most horrible subjects can be me, I'm a be reading from old books that out of print and that's what we're gonna do. there's, no one that would set out that's on, like it's gonna, be a hit. That's all signs of on rare sign me up. You ve got it, but I did it and the path,
we went down was just because this is what I'm into this is what I liked this. What I'm interested in same thing with books, if you're going to write a book and your goal of the book is to be neurotic, best seller or your goal of the podcast is to be the number one podcast. gonna. Be like rain Wilson in that, play try really hard to get a good review and it's like it doesnt! That's not what brings it you look for something outside a yourself for validation and for happiness as opposed to an inner motivation- and you do you do you know, there's a lot of you Well, that that, right to me and talk to me about the exact same thing and they want to start a podcast cause, they want them. They want the acute from all of the successful podcast they want like accolades and people looking up to them. and they want to be invited, another podcast and they want to be published and they want to be get a speaking. Gig lecturing gigs Colleges or whatever
it is, and you gotta find your authentic voice, which you have done masterfully and I was able to do as an actor, and it gave me some success because I jettisoned all of that shit. Just like I'm gonna play weird fucked up roles and this is who I am, and if you don't like it, that's fine, you know have to watch screw, you and it's the same way today with social media and with podcasting voicing your opinion and stuff like that, it's like I gotta, be me. So. I am what I think and I get it a backlash sometimes and right- that's fine! You can You can pull your hair out and threatened to kill me on you, too it's all great line. I don't give a fuck. I really doubt I've just pay is that so I do want to be part of a much larger conversation of how do we make ourselves better people and how do we make the world a better place? Let's just engage in that conversation these. These are good conversations, yeah yeah and have fun doing it.
the sooner you get this. I'm gonna fast forward a little bit timeline wise. Then next, section that I'm gonna go to his welcome to los angeles, and I had to throw this in there. Hollywood for the seven of you. That don't know is not anything like you think it is from the association with that famous grandiose name. There is nothing ten or fabulous arousal. Does we about that place? This is especially true in nineteen, ninety nine busy and yet somehow completely destitute. It was popular populated with drug attics, strippers schizophrenia and scientologists besides a wax museum, some sickly palm trees and occasional confused dutch tourist and the stars on hollywood boulevard. There was thing there to let you know that there was a show business industry in its history or in the vicinity. But if you wanted marijuana, wigs, a taco or a talker, it was definitely the place to be. It is weird for people I haven't been california and hollywood. It's really like you
You wouldn't know that there's anything there get its different now there's kind of more glitzy, there's them all their and said right is gonna little better. You know, but you can stop I away gonna a taco and anti drug. You want yeah he's a soldier scientology readily, if you, oh yeah you're, going to walk right in then you're glad to have you but yeah. It's so funny cause all the all the the magic gets made on the soundstages in the studios, but there's nothing in hollywood. then has to do with that and even then you're gonna studio, and it just looks it just like these rooms and there's a couple cameras and some trailers and some dolly's and bunch of cables and lying around us. Nothing really that fact and you'd come out on you guys it had made a show. What does it knew booty? Not the new bosnia yeah we did. I my friends did a clown comedy sketch comedy we
weird surreal, comedy piece that we'd created in new york and had done pretty well in new york, and we brought it out to l a or this David count was david constable yeah he's on billions, and he was at breaking bad yeah. He was, I was in billions with him no cat as what freaking good dude whole place. I always interesting is the first time ever do anything like that gas inside it We know what was going on and I didn't know how popular billions was and so- I got hooked up tim ferris, the friend of mine, and they asked him if I wanna beyond, like timid, I want the same episode anyway. I suppose you sounds go wherever I was going to new york and I went out there and Actually I showed up and David was like he was likes. Super cool but he is like I showed up in a like, oh hi, and he's like welcome the billions as if like
and I was kind of like well that's kind of weird. I was like that's a little strange because I had only watched like on my flight to new york. I watched the first like three episodes, so I really didn't know what's going on, and I know how freaking good that show was a bit her clients anchor novel, I've watched the whole thing, but yeah. I was, there was another thing that come with those guys and these. Are studying winds like I'm sitting there and that's it. freakin jacked up thanks, so they added got a script right and I kind of fought like. Will you not actually like read the script or whatever like in shall we just gonna make shut up memorize the I dunno how many wines I had, but, however many lines I had, I didn't memorize any of my thought. I was going to be me and just talk cause. I was literally myself right yeah, so I get there and now I'm watching. What's going on with? as our filming other sections, and I was- and I like oh shit, they do the same thing over and over again.
over and over and over again like twenty times, and I was like holy shit. I've got to do the same thing over and over again until we're brits and I'm like sitting there, trying to memorize my nine lines or whatever it was, but what a good one right, dude, I've actually the whole everyone. There was awesome, yeah yeah, and complement and day levine have been just. They were just super cool and still supercool, but yeah, and then David from when he was in Britain, bad and the whole nine yards, yeah yeah he's he's one of my oldest dearest friends in its great he's had a great career and we started doing these weird sketch comedy clown care, sorry describe what it was, but anything what brought us to allay so yak is like your director or something was there. You're, my pretty sir. He had had moved there too workin and famine he brought us out. We did the stage playboy, but you didn't theaters and we got a tv deal at foxen. You know just started. Get now old tv
Think of it. Meanwhile, you do first, additions. You eventually get almost famous great santiago movie by the way our galaxy classed as my first to movie see expend a bulls that wasn't the not that movie. They arose a different shout expendable and you see somebody I thought I had this whole ellie- think figured out rolled into town gonna pilot, a couple of film rules without a single hitch. We if the new bo xena at fox do a pilot presentation and made more money in a couple of months and in all the previous years combined, I was in and feeling like a made man holiday, and I decided to settle down in l a and make a go of it. She would finish her book of short stories and I would be an actor who could act pay the bills. Then, within a few months the new bo got rejected by fox and I was unemployed for a full year. Showbiz eventually do house of a thousand corpse for robs, albeit yes, to Then anniversary just past hell, yeah twentieth anniversary, you did the movie
America, sweethearts csi lawn order couple pilots. Cancel shows that no one ever heard of the pay the bills and continue to build my career, you get you get. You wanted a final actors for rested development to play. Job yeah. You say this about that. After several additions, I was once again being tested for the project. There were two the final scenes that we job's would be doing along the side, the rest of the family, who had already been cast in one scene. There are one or two lines in the end and the other senior a couple of pages of really funny. Dialogue had a great chance to show off what you could do with the character we all filed in one at a time to show the head of fox the first or seen the the job's went in to do the second bigger scene. I waited nervously going over my lines and bits preparation. I waited and waited waited. I was sitting all alone. The waiting room and after ten or fifteen minutes are wandered out the hallway everyone had left. I mean everyone actors casting,
fox executives, janitors everyone. I finally saw casting assisting cleaning up in a corner and asked going on. I guess they saw they needed to see from you. She chirped merrily and ice away embarrassed and miserable only having only order and with two lines for the best comic role. I'd ever read. yeah. That was I still that just kind of staggers me that there were like three of us the other one was Michael What's his name from succession who plays Connor the older brother michael roots, Michael raw, I've read forgetting his a brilliant actor, a brilliant actor was on succession. He was in it him and will Arnett, who is obviously bryant and yeah, do the first little scene and, like ok, go wait over here and we'll call you back in the next scene, privileges bad. I wait and I wait and I wait I'm going over my line, then wait and wait and wait like
and a half an hour later, everyone's gone, no one, no one thought to go over this. How hollywood works? No one thought just like common decency to just be like rain thanks so much they're not going to see you for the next scene. They saw what they needed and they're going to go in a different direction. Thank you so much for coming in like no one could just do that and it was. It was humiliating. It was. It was pretty humiliating, but it it it's par for the course you just keep going and Well, our net was great for that and I am grateful I didn't get cast and that is that wouldn't play dwight. If I had been cast on, as development he's had a great career about a great career and it all worked out and I was up in a just talking to a company, But wherever I was talking, there was an audition going on for something and there was five hundred teenage girls between the ages of like eleven Fourteen linda, around the block
with their holding their pages and geography at the us like crazy. One of my friends works and alain he like bruns movies and shows and stuff, and he says the worst thing like every person, that walks in that room you we are holding their dream right, if you are just holding their dream, they seem like the nicest and their good for the role, but there's someone that's just a little bit better and you just their dream, just throw it away. You even have time like what you're saying he's a gap in the you s three people, but when there's five hundred people once it here's your dream, I oppose smash it next. He said he hates it. He wasn't doing anymore casting director and dislike won't. Do it anymore because its heartbreaking, yeah yeah it's brutal process. you want thing you realise when ura cause I've been the other side casting, go and stuff that I've produce drove starring in or whatever, and you special when you see people in the room or now it's mostly on tape, sees he come on the clock. they upload their additions or whatever, but
You know in like thirty seconds whether the right or not, and it's nothing but there is not even to do with their talent or anything. I just see them and their vibe. It's all a vibe thing, thereby vibe how they're doing the lines of stuff. yeah and yet so. That's not. My buddy said like someone who walk in and he didn't. I refer seconds. He looked to the perspective you. They can't play this role but easy you ve gotta. Let him do their lang. They ve worked for hours or days on it and it's tough awful by the way your son was born. Two thousand for this is this timeframe. You got the harrowing story of the birth of your son in the book, so get the book. You end up in this in the show six feet under and that as you mentioned, eventually leads to chapter fourteen dwight case route assistant to the regional monster,
you say I was the very first person to audition for the office literally are incredible. Casting director alison Jones, who cast all of judd app low in Paul feeds movies as well as veep and myriad of other british colleagues had. Recent gonna know me as an actor, and I was starting to get some notice because my role in six feet under she called me into addition for both Michael and white, and I was I beyond words. As I love the project so much, I sat the waiting room clutching my pages literally more eager for this audition than any. of the hundreds I'd been on in the past year. that's just because you knew the the story. I knew the british office. I had seen it early on that amazing, and everyone was like you're gonna ruin in and they can ever make an american version and move them on shitting on especially british people, but I would like more while wine
You know, and I still am like there's still people that are kind of the british better sick, You can watch all twelve of the british series over and over again for the rest, your life, every single. They know it's taking that away from you. Meanwhile, we made two hundred episodes of up of a different kind of version. And it needed to be different, causer british us subsidize television have no commercials, so they getting literally government grants, they can do much shorter seasons, we ve gotta, do long seasons and with common, no breaks with shorter episodes, The list goes on and on, but I was a huge fan of the british show and a man. I was so excited And- and it was one of the things were, you know, why can t go with smiling. You know, like I knew from the second I read: why does like that's my role? I absolutely no, how to play this role and die I was like there's no one else that can do this. The way that I can so
I did a terrible audition for Michael I I went in and just did ricky ger vase. I literally was like So am I you know, I'm a manager here and well. You know, I don't know what he loves me and like world's best boss in and it was. It was just really not right, and then I went in for four dwight and I was like I can and do drink my own here. And you know- and they were just like this guy knows what he's doing, but it was but even then like I, I really killed the audition, but the callbacks work. For me, later in the callbacks, wear it this back in the day they they they spent which time and energy and money on the casting I mean it was really they spent months on the cast and saw every body and it was a really important project and bc. Mme mixed
matched us over a course of a weekend and they filmed us which are so that The test where, like that, the studio If decide in a in a test, t v test or pilot test who they're going to cast, it wasn't like coming into a room and performing for a bunch of executives. They just watched the tape, which is a much better way of doing it. So I got matched up with pop odin kirk, who is up for Michael. He was like it was between babo dunkirk, Steve corral to brilliant but Bob was alone dark here he was a little dark further, the role he could play the british one yeah, but he, you know, god bless him. He's had said great career is such an maisie actor and- you know as soon as you saw steve growl do it. It was just like I haven't seen him act before and sent us into like improvise with each other, and I was like laughing in the in the audition and dumb. I had never seen an actor like that before.
or sansom in his visibility he's just so facile. He could just improvise off of anything and that's the that's- the amazing thing about an arm skipping around here from grew lot but ass. The amazing thing about about steed is like you talk about learning lines like he would learn his lines, but he's a kind actor like you could throw anything Adam I did, over two hundred episodes and it would never break him and he would never it couldn't you couldn't throw him off. You could not hidden so much improved could not throw em off enough you're doing a scene in europe, came out how well we better go the italian restaurant, on a lunch break in and you're like just throw in align. Like you know, I were I really never loved my mother and he would like dwight. What are you talking about your mother right now? We gotta get to that italian in it, wouldn't even like
face. He would just take anything and weave it in, and that was incredible to learn from cause. I came from this shit bear background in theatre, background, memorizing lines and performing and stuff like that. Steve, was all about just like just mercurial and just being able to do to turn on a dime whose gregg Daniels he's the show runner, he was the main writer for our show so son of he he shaped. He took the wish thing and shaped for the american audience and he's gonna when they show are basically means that make all the decisions, so casting the edits at its the cuts. The final scripts, the budgets there really the big executive producers, seeing the whole thing in his? Would you say he's the guy that like had the vision of cause. There are obviously putting a lot of effort into this yeah. Is he the guy thought
Okay, this is going to be. If we do this right, we got. We got a freaking goldmine here. One hundred per cent yeah he greg Daniels is he doesn't get enough credit for what he did, but he's very meticulous, and he really just have lists of like here's. What I love about the british office and here's. What is not gonna work an american audience and really wanted more heart, I dunno here's. Good indicator of that look at. difference in Michael Scott from season wonder season two. So and season. One stevenson was little overweight. A will admit that, and he had they had. Michael Scott, like key slick. His hair back is thinning a little bet, unlike the evil. much more like just on likeable just like a greasy used car sales, mental little bed and and they realize, even though season one is pretty brilliant and pre frickin funny,
They realize like we need to make Michael Scott, more accessible, approachable, because he's doing so many more horrible things, so they kind of like did his hair batter and they dressed him a little better. They lifted a little nicer. Just look at the differences in the lighting and they made they gave him a little more heart, just just a little bit more, not all of a sudden he's hugging puppies right, but in fact they say that an tv like you ve got nothing. apple character than you, ve gotta show them early on being really nice twenty animal and then the audience will like them, and then they can forgive all the dastardly things they do but but it wasn't like that with Michael Scott, but they just give them a little more heart and a little more warmth and you felt for him a little bit. You'll realize that co he's kind of a lost puppy dog and off, but in season one he was a little. He was little more, like the british show so Gregg daniels- is the one making those decisions and going in and being,
really sure that and he said earlier on, he said: listen because at the time I dunno your you this, but american comp television comedy two thousand five was not very good. Putting seinfeld and friends side which were brilliant they were all there was a lot of crappy shows out there. I limp everybody loves raymond was greater. There were some clue, essex and then a sea of crap and so he's like you know. If we can take the world of comedy and just turn it it's like a comedies like an ocean liner. We could turn one degree in the right direction. We can influence comedy in the right way and that's that's what the office did. It didn't do wonder, It did like five degrees and made comedy a lot smarter than it was so revolutionary. What we were doing at the time single camera, poorly lit, like florescent lights, really average to unattractive characters, and
and like german pam, like like John and john or are are really good. Looking but they're not like models right there, just a real people there, young people who are kind of good look on the good, looking side of things and at the time they were casting. Always like me, finally, and these sitcoms and staff, and that wasn't working out so well. So though, the fact that its real people handheld, like shaky camera, there were a lot of things that really broke and we almost got cancelled so many times and we did not do well. We got terrible reviews. Go google the early reviews of the office they were terrible like are not as good as the english off as the haters on that facade. Oh, my god it just never it is never. It still doesn't end. Still it's just incredible.
British people have a different sense of humour like us at a married to a brit. So I get some of that english humour, but americans don't have that a sense of humor right. We needed the american office and we had a bad light, british office. If your name, can watching it you're depressed You very well end up depressed you like, oh, this is this doesn't make me feel good, it's funny, but I'm like laughing at these people feel de about it. When I'm done it's like not a feeling, pretty cynical and the american offices to its mark well, and I think the interesting thing is about the office. No one saw coming by the way was one started to stream on netflix in two thousand and sixteen seventeen and eighteen. I don't even know when it started so much a google get on that? Never the culture before
The and all of a sudden you had in this probably applies your kids. You had teenagers watching the show over and over and over again all of a sudden knows, meeting fourteen year old, who had seen the entirety of the office like seven times, and this was way, but now it now there isn't it like seventy times? That's my that's my kids hypersonic! They owe them they just leave it on. But I think that little bit of heart that gregg Daniels the reality in the heart, the gregg Daniels, put in every episode and he always wanted he said. Listen it. The shows, gotta beaches, eighty five, ninety percent just comedy, but just that ten to fifteen percent of reality, in heart the wheat that we sprinkling will go a super long way. I remember that as a kid watching. Mash, I remember Why? Because I was always interested and worn out, get to watch the show and it was like funny and then for once in a while you'd be like who, like I'm a kid and I'd, be like oh shit, this casual
or I remember this one seen our auditors towards the end of the series- Alan oldest talking about like woman ease like she did. She had this chicken and was making noise in iran s boss in Babylon, and she killed it You and you know, and then you find out that she actually killed her kid to get the kid to be quiet, and I mean: I remember watching as little kid so this funny show, but then it would have these impact for moments. Barf is definitely had plenty. Those impact for moment for sure. this one section here here we talk about Gregg Daniel, Can it early on? pulls you aside and says, like here easy told me in a very diplomatic way, love my acting during the improves and he liked my acting less during the scripted sees its true. It's true. it's not that I had already gotten the part and I was like loom and then you walk watch the videos you like. Oh I see it. yeah. So I convinced the one producer who
at management company and I had a manager at the same company- and I like you need to let me watch the additions he's like. I can like just let me I just need to see what I did that what gregg is talking about, because we have started shooting yet we would be doing table reeds and just rehearsing and stuff like that, so I got to go and I all of my audition sweeping so the guy you talk the guy into it. Yes, so heap, he showed he had just on his little like laptop or whenever and I got to watch, our auditions and I was just- like zoned dinners and like theirs. Scenes that. We're scripted where I had my You know my lines and then there were scenes where they said. You know, you and John just have an argument about getting coffee ready go and I will look at it. and I saw it and I saw what is and it was like it was still a little bit of that theater actor. He kind of thing where I kind of like would do a a line. Reading or I'd make a line, a certain
ere. I decide kind of how a line should sound or silly, and if I wasn't bad, it is a little more presentation, I don't know how to put it, but the improv stuff. Was just much more. A reality is talking in shooting the shedding and being weird and well natural way and I really it was like. I'm so glad He brought that up. My god could. This is good and then I just made the scripted stuff to some I can stuff and then I'd improvise off the script. It's tough and ended up working work and our great you say this after we were all cast on the show me steve, John and jenna went out for lunch at a nondescript little sandwich place down the street from the studio. We had a conversation that grandiose as it may sound is etched into. all of our minds, we giddily d, the very real possibility that they show could go on for eight years now, which the course of our lives and how these parts we were about to undertake would most likely be. Are most defining roles, just think of
what we're getting into the journey we're about to go on could be amazing. I remember saying member steve, who was just coming off of doing anchor man in the forty year old virgin saying all of them. of all the rules on doing in films, I may shoot. I believe, that michaels Maybe may be the role I'll always be most known, for there is one of those What's when destiny, when our day and he was seen with complete clarity by country road from a hot air balloon all while eating a tuna sandwich weird thing is like you are. You guys saw that the matter You guys are some of that money were like early on we're like this could really will be something read. This could really be something you know when we had no idea that amended exceeded, even that I mean has become this call it's a real I walk into target and, like my faces on up mug played and have an apron.
India, shoes and we hope we have a friggin lot of office march at my house idea. We got free a jam with your head on it like path? but the weird thing is it: income, like you just mentioned, it didn't, come out of the gate that strong not as a matter of fact it wasn't. It was getting picked up. One and to right gag yeah. So second season. The first season was only six episodes and they kind of, toward us in and then- and it really was only because the success of the forty year old virgin and they were Ok, you ve gotta move star on this show. Like the like amateurs we're we're this with dead the Jeff Zachary years. It was not a good time at NBC, they middle of colossal errors and and so they are like. Ok, what will will order five? more episodes and then we did and then like well, we can afford to more well one more and then and then mid to stir.
The little develop in that second season started to take off then this thing happened with itunes, which hopefully I did recognize this. So the first I What do they call it? An ipod came out, but it had video on it. Yeah first video ipod came out in two thousand and five and they put what the first season of the office of a sciences. They put the office smith's episode, pre loaded onto every video ipod. So every rich kid in the country you know whose parents could afford a two hundred or three under dollar video I've had player three player he got it. had an office episode on there. They were watching their like these kids are like, and that was our was the way this thing to like here's. What we're doing how about people working in an office without the audience would be people that had worked in offices and our biggest
Audiences were high school in college kids, which advertise there's love by the way so yeah that that was another thing, that kind of forty eight hours how many things had to happen in the right way for us to have the run them add, and that was another one of us And then it goes like this then all of a sudden an bc put a giant billboard of us in front of them. Burbank offices, someone The crew had taken a photo of that billboard while driving passed, and I John Jay and steve huddled around looking at it laughing ecstatically after about a hundred elated high fines. Resettled back down to do the scene at hand, giggling secretly a photo billboard was hung on the wall just outside of our set and stay there for the duration of the show. We knew then we're gonna beyond the air for a long long time.
We were often running. So that's it. yeah see the billboard. Then you made it. You know People don't understand, but acting is to get. If the tv show, as an actor in any capacity, is really really hard to do, it's you you and if you're, really talented and train you've got to have representation, you've got to get the right things just to get a single role, if you get a a recurring role on a tv, show that even harder, if you get a pilot and that pilot gets picked up to. if you get a pilot, it's so hard to do, and it's a miracle that you get a pilot that pilots picked up. Two series: that's a triple me call, and if the series has picked up and does multiple seasons, that's a quadruple miracle and then, if it has a full run like nine ten year run. Then, if it windows wins awards, then
the last ten twenty years after you started it like I mean it's like hitting the jackpot over and over, and over again it's like, hitting the roulette wheel? I put twenty black boom hit. It again hit it hit it hit it hit it. That's what it's like to do the office, so you know I'm just even today, like ten years after we have finished our last episode, like I'm just in awe of what we were able to do, I'm so grateful for the the role. The experience I mean it was, it was it was. It was a miracle and what, with one of the greatest like ensembles, ever assembled. I mean the amount of talent in that room was just preposterous. There can be some level, I'm guessing of like the beatles right the beatles were only the beatles because of that group of people and like wanting I split off and they were doing their own thing yeah. They made some staff of blah blah, but no one really care
about John lennon or even pull macartney are like they don't care about what they did solo? Really it's about the beatles sing, with well with black sabbath right. black sabbath than you, an ozzy break off tony, like I love those guys, but it's about blacks, sabbath, something special about that chemistry led zeppelin, same thing right now: let's applin. when the lads applin is lead sapling. Once you once John bonham dies, did just gonna be the same. So there's that man I recall as well that you get this group of people out if it had been a different. You know Michael Scott or a different way or a different jam or a different pam. It might have been. little bit of chemistry, and then you get what you get and maybe we would done done six episodes of men cancelled or cancel halfway through the second season. If we didn't have that, you know
odin Kirk had been cast and brilliant babo kurtz, one of america's best actor writer directors, brilliant, nothing against him at all. But if they had gone in that direction, you know who knows! you know where he is also highly present. My house, as you know, Saul saw, they are very highly present, my house, okay, so I guess we I ve been winning, possibly the way or maybe losing on both fronts. While he found a better, he found a better outlet for his acting in a better casal universe. Well, that's what you're saying earlier. Like when people like your men for that role, like he's meant for that wrong, it's hard picture someone else pulling it off it's hard, picture, someone else pulling off the whites hard to purchase, and I guess now, what kind of all this it is, what it is we that's just the way it is But if you throw someone else in there is just a mess could be amiss. Yeah
you got nominated for three emmy words how that, while that work, it? Didn't work out very well. I lost due to under Jeremy, Heaven whose germantown he was unknown. Rob. She played carry an aunt. I want the agent on on turkey so is that the leading role now is thus supporting basque comic, supporting role bunker, so you asked him Have you ever sent him hate mail secretly ok. We can sort out no comment. I didn't send him, hey male per se, but he received some mysterious packages in the mail. How m I gonna break into his house still one other enemies. He should just give me one of honour or he's got who, after heated grade in an hour, it was good just get me one scratch it out: they might be easy yeah,
You got a whole section in here: random office memories, just good people go, get them freakin hilarious, stuff, I'm not gonna, try and do justice, and by the way you read the audio buck too. So I obviously socket reading you, but a distant for this park. That's the anyways, get the audio. If you want to get the book bachar, you too lazy to read, get the audio books. then you can hear only stories from rain himself. Chapter sixteen soul pancakes. Some long consultations and soul searching with some spiritual philosopher, friends, my co founders, joshua, hom neck and devon gunjay, such create a destination for the web, for people interested in exploring big ideas through the portals of philosophy, creativity and spirituality? We wanted our every endeavour to be a successful business venture and not a nonprofit, because we felt there was
a large young audience out that was longing for positive content, and you talk about the book here about it. It's just at this time I'm there what's on. The web is just a bunch of friggin negativity and you got one, do something positive and go exactly. Hence the sole pancake house echoed out yes, so you know I talked about You know what a lottery when it is too beyond a show: that's gonna be going for a long time, so, all of a sudden, for the first time in my life, I'm like nine years old woman going into my forties I know that I'm gonna have five to ten years of like real paychecks, solid pay. Checks I've never had that before member there's a guy first ten years of my career, never made over time grand and a year a year? What are they pay you for a pilot like one
or doing the first. Would you do six? First, no fifteen yeah, so pilot fees vary for actors. I mean there can be a big star they bring in for a pilot and they pay him a million dollars into a pilot, but I was not at all so somewhere between you know. A pipe bread per episode rate for actors is somewhere between twenty grand to fifty grand an episode. You know early on. Then you renegotiate your hijack them. Then you start getting more. You start getting into the hundreds of thousands purposes. stuff like that, so this was like exponential money- oh my god, yeah. So what that did is well in. I had ready bought a house is eight. We bought it the crappy little house in Van nuys, California, that was cost two hundred and sixty thousand dollars little eleven hundred square foot house where My son was born and then and then we have once the office was was going, but the
There is a responsibility that I felt, and maybe this was my upbringing. My faith, tradition, I'm not quite sure, was like hey. All of a sudden, we have this huge platform, like I'm gonna, be this guy who's on this tv show. People know who he is I've got something to say: I felt a result, ability to try and do something positive in the world. I I dont know why you talk to other people in their like. I just have a nice life, I'm not saying some saint or something like that, I'm not at all, I'm a colossal. Grew up, but like what am I gonna do and that's where soul, pancake came out of long series of discussions with some friends about like what we best do to make the world better place with the biggest need and what we went to was like positive, uplifting content for young people that dealt with life's biggest questions. We were doing videos on mental health, stuff kind of before it,
body was an uplifting, joyful videos, videos that asked probing questions, I had a an interview, talk series in my back of my van called metaphysical milkshake, you know and we kid president- we a lot of different shows. It was right at the time when you tube There was a lot of crap because a letter like crow dash and auto credit score. dove porn and adjust. Its cutaway fails. Remember, like us with really big, and it was just the worst of humanity. Her way can we make something beautiful and uplifting an important, but not in doesn't take itself too serious. so we made this Sir started as a web destination quickly, morphed into making up that digital video media content many mostly through you to channel and we had a youtube channel pretty early on had two or three million subscribers
and we made over three thousand pieces of content that was very positive and lifting, very cheryl, and we had a lot of brand partnership deals and took the company we sold the company to a place called participant media, which is an even bigger media. Coming and they had it for a couple of years and then a kind of like faded away but what we had a long good, ten twelve, your run with that and I got over a billion video views and made the world. A slightly better place, some really proud of that work: yeah. I knew you were doing charity, work in their as well? How do you say that the thing that you started in haste in Haiti, lady, lady Haiti after garden yeah. We still work on that and that's Was it really interesting part of the book come where they were asking these young haitian girls. What's your favorite color and which is
the common question for every seven year old kid in america, like oh, what your favorite color, that's just what you do, and these girls didn't even know that meant it was like, The foreign question was that there were, and these were older girls, teenage girls and at you it was very clear that they had never been asked this question before and if that's the case, you know how are they being seen or how are they not being seen because we asked one girl and- and she was like a deer in the headlights and she was blue and and they were like a hawk, a blue gray low grade and then what about you? What's your favorite color, just like blue, they all said blue because they just like what's right. What's right answer: what's the wrong answer, they had never so We realise that and we we came in after the earthquake, my wife, and and we were working wish on pan and some is refuge.
camp, that he sat up, he was doing amazing work and we started in these classes for and the arts and literacy for adolescent girls, and we saw how incredible what an incredible in community created and the girls like, we left doing our workshops and they still gathered and kept meeting, and we started doing the workshops, and they were so shy and so facing and in secure and by the end of like, are too weak workshops. There like expressive and sharing their poetry. They had written in their photographs, they had taken in the drama they were doing and we saw like how powerful the arts are for creating community healing trauma, which I sure you know from veterans, work and and.
You know opening the way to seeing these girls for who they really are, and what I m never forget that we are when we started doing this work with lady. His girl, like you, know at first. I didn't understand what you guys we're doing as other people come here. They give us shoes, you know they give us. this is to live, they give us food said, but you you give us hope and that's that's really. What we're trying to do is edges I hate the whole girl we're working with over eight hundred girls in twelve different locations. We have a haitian staff of forty and I'm very excited and proud to be a co founder, but it's really haitian lead and run, and we just support it I whore myself out as as dwight to raise money. and it over to educate these girls and dies funny, because in a couple weeks we're doing a dinner with it's called the as dinner parties and me and steve.
Angela are having dinner and you could buy raffle tickets to win or the highest bidder to go to this dinner with have already raised a massive amount of money just to have dinner yeah. So I can see where you raise a mass of muslim korea did you'd want in our battle yard, reset the eye Jeffrey be there for development fast forward a little bit you you close out this book the bathroom. Can you close out this book with a with a section called ten things? I know for sure one. the deepest happiness, comes from service to others. Like hundred per cent. If you think, you're being funny you're not being funny. This is heads out: isn't it to real important thinks? It's not just think you're being funny. You think you're being cool you're, not being cool
saying this is applies to a lot of things that we try and do as humans small said, grace two changes everything rome is the greatest city on earth yeah. So put that in. There is a thing you know for sure yeah, fair enough needs? more time heals ago now, but not I'm I'm going san, diego, I'm the worst on the worst alose Andy. I dont want to leave my house like nothing I don't want to go to rome. I don't want to go to anywhere and wanted paris allay and want to go off deafening. I wanna go to allay oceanside oceanside, perhaps you make a little, not for rome there. The opinions of other people are not something to worry about. That's number, five yeah, that's it! good thing to learn the early. You learn that the better off you're gonna be now there are dichotomy here where, if, like I don't give a shit, what anybody says, I'm a freak
spite the punch or whatever, whatever you're gonna. Do it there's a certain point worth everyone's till you're, acting like an asshole sure, that's when you might want to pay attention to yeah. I mean that's common sense: wisdom, like you ve. We learn where social creatures we learn like. Oh I keep. When I greet bullets punch him in the balls, but people don't seem to like me very much room evasion, stuff, punishing them in the balls like will. You know, you'll, learn that where but my spot on twelve steps actually said. There's an eighth. I just thought it was the simplest thing and it so it so profound arm. He said like what other people think of you is none of your business. What you think about other people is all of your business, so it's always being mindful of like how am I am I treating people, I my respecting them in my listening to them and my taking the men and my filled with resentment. Do I have a huge? I know people, and they have like this resentment list,
he's an asshole I'll, never talk to them like this, and that and that's easy. It's like a big, cancerous tumor on their shoulder. You know it's hard to live your life with all of that resentment like how. How am I feeling about other people can make keeping that clean. people are gonna, whatever they're gonna. Think about me. It's fine! That's that's! It's completely out of my control. I'm gonna try and be my authentic self, and and bring myself to every occasion with as much authenticity and integrity as possible, and I don't always succeed, but that's what I'm going to that's, what I'm going to try and do- and that's that's what's in my control number six game of thrones is our greatest teacher. A few things. I've learned from the greatest tv show in the history of everything. get a wolf beak dragon see. Women should rule the world deep politics or waste of breath in time dude, I'm not, I'm not washed it. Yet What are you doing that yourself?
you never leave. The house also watch fucking game of thrones. From what I my middle daughter, who you met she's like she's, says it's freaking awesome the last season but I guess but no see. The weird thing is, I mean there's like kind of a thread here of dungeons and dragons and, like I couldn't get into that and now and like jason gardener, who I told you about earlier, there's like full on dungeon dragon kid. He loved game of thrones, freaking game of thrones all day but he's by its about is not about spells and dragons as much as its about politics and in human nature. You're, like power in its it's all. It's a game. thrones, literally like a giant chess game. The low, but a magic here and there, but it's not like prancing, elves and ones and harry potter and stuff that so, where do you bashing harry potter right now, can I give
I hope you are opinion there, adding Harry potter, sucks. Ok, we can add it is because I don't want you, we aren't going get I dont care the opinions of other people- I said unpopular opinion. It's funny. I've gone on podcasts before and I'm like okay unpopular opinion, and then I've laid out my unpopular opinion and then people are in. The comments were like your pure believe. He should then remove a good. That's a stupid move like yeah. I said it's an unpopular opinion. I don't like harry potter, I don't like the books, I don't like them and I especially don't like the movies, how chrome it's endless and who cares. Early written and it's it's. It it's really really good for twelve year olds and the adults that have read it like seventeen times. I'm really sorry! You need to grow the fuck up, because it's all about like. I wonder if she likes me and I'll pick out a new wand, and I wonder if the girl in my speech and potion class likes me. It's like that's great. When you're twelve kurds great when you're too
and the movies are four hours long and they just these. They look, like a stupid, see w show and they make me sick Well, I'm going to go ahead and just tell you please, when you get done watching the comments from this go to rule five, which is the opinions of other people, not something to worry about any other sacred cows. You want to slay this time. I've got so many. I could. I could get me started. Here's one that would be a good podcast by the what what's up on popular opinion, just bring on a guest to say you one another in our opinion, be like I don't like sushi or whatever it is, and just like go why you know whatever whatever it is whatever it is, I don't like sushi. but by rule number seven rule number seven this for you echo charles's sushi is about the fish idiots gap, meaning all this says. Is that not the saw says it's not the roles in the crispy onions and the fried dough
in dressing it up with all that crazy shenanigans. It's about fish brow right, you're, with I'm he's a solution, you wanna get some soon after that, the answer to the other. I want to comment, you can go read your harry potter watch every lauder to actually I have a red herring, honour and see anything. That's magical and fantastical ventricle said identical carla anything, that's that I have a hard time like just get into it. this is the way I don't know my turn: once I saw the nineteen cited dice, I was like yours, too number eight. My son is my send say beautiful, Learning from those kids number nine. stories make the world go round very important,
thing for pig know. It is we humans are story, tellers and the earliest evidences of human kind of culture is the cave, art right and you think about sharm ends in the cave by candlelight and people put their hands and like powdered dies and putting their handprint on the on the cave walls in the sharm and telling the mythologies the stories of the hunt singing the songs and and carrying though stories on generation to generation like humans, need to gather like we're doing right here and tell stories we do that movie theater! That's why we really lost something by just having streaming all the time I went to go a mission impossible in the theater last night empty empty theatre, I had my clown salad. Do not a clown. Salad is do not popcorn peanut eminem sport in the popcorn my clown way due order that do they know what it is or you mix
to go outside. I had to do it. The day watch and my clients Alan we're through with the firm solar, the solo operation, my wife's in china right now studying tight. She from and my son's off a college- and I was like the candy store it was so and known as in their known as in there now and which one the first one know the about the new and the news. What no one dead letter office number, seven or whatever you call it than tat I loved it. So much have you seen it. No, I again unpopular opinions like movies with a lot of explosions and a lot of that kind. Stuff going on there I think that this is a record. Is my favorite action movie of all time, really favorite maximum revolt? There was one of the James bond that was really really good. I forget what called one of the Daniel craig ones, but this was like, but anyways
the moral of this is its stories right were huddled in a dark room and there's if they call it up the flickering myth of the story. That's in front of you in the story of heroism, in courage and explosions in trains, falling off, laughs and stuff like that, and I just love it. You know The office stories, your podcast stories, humans gathering, sharing stories, twelve twelve step meetings are sharing stories like there's something healing powerful. We need to share and listened stories and creates, worries, yellows gonna save as much smack. As I talked about this, guess that we do no, what's reading books from a historical step, but like really that's what it is, it sees long stories of war and heroism and lawson. and nerdy actors and then occasion and occasionally bringing me on
had garrison nissan on here. He's another actors, awesome who have we had any other actors on here. I don't think so. on and actors, nice terrible actor. earlier comedian this a funny guy who tells stories about snakes and toilet paper, yeah One time I met a girl. She had three legs. We called her three legged susie she's great. She gave a main blow job anyway, yeah, that's pretty much it. number, ten, the last thing of Things you know for sure is that I don't know anything. which is an important or number ten right. It's an import number. Ten, that's again tons stories and bassoon king but it seems like your next book so boom.
It seems that you're trying to figure out what you do know or what you can know or what we're trying to learn the sole boom. Why we need a spiritual revolution. Is it Was this book trying to learn? Is it true? to figure things out when we do in Seoul boom, yeah. So when roper soon, king. There is kind of a thread that runs through it that a lot of people are turned off by, but I talk about kind of my faith journey in my spiritual journey kind of its woven through the funny stories and the great thing, the bassoon king and I told them when I was writing the book, I'm like listen. It's can be eighty five percent funny stories. Fifteen percent is going to be faith, god questions and finding my spiritual path and whatever- and you know some people love that stuff and some people will. But will you can just skip those paragraphs? but after I did that and then covert hit and
covert kind of shut everything down right. Of course, we all know that, but it shut down the whole acting industry to like oh shit. What what the hell am I going to do and I had just been jotting down a lot of quotes and ideas and thoughts and stuff like that. I use the notes app on my iphone and I'm always just putting in notes, and if I can find a quote that I like- and I was like you know, I do know something I have spent twenty or thirty years thinking very deeply about spirituality and the big big questions about, like god and the meaning of life. If in the nature of love and what happens when we die and what is the sole I've ran a lot about this stuff. I've thought a lot about it now my chance. This was my kind of my covert project, and you know I I shut up. I went to my book age and I rode up a little outline and part of the first chapter in kind of the thesis of what
I wanted to say- and I sent it out, we sent out thirteen of the top publishers and immediately rejected by the top twelve. To to to to to to just immediately rigid about the people that published the bus. So they passed, they passed so fast it'll make your head spin, damn dude yeah they never really like the fact that I put my spiritual journey in that they just wanted funny stories in they really didn't want that. But they begrudgingly allowed me to put some of that in, and so finally number thirteen her shut, god bless you hachette they came in there like we love it totally get it boy. I think it's important Totally see you doing that were on board, they ve been a great power, and her pretty rare in this business now granted. Part of the reason is cause I'm a no name, and they know I'm in a cell, a certain number of books just because I'm the guy play dwight from the office
But yes, oh, this is. This is really my passion project. Isn't my like. I can get hit by a bus and die tomorrow, I'm fine because in Seoul boom, as anything I've kind of thought about felt deeply. I share a lot about my mental health journey and recovery journey, and I truly believe jocko that we do need a spiritual revolution that we keep trying as a society in contemporary america to put band aids on a cancer and there we have to go deeper as a culture as a as a global culture of you and but as an american culture, especially to get to the spiritual roots of the diseases that are afflicting our society and we're not doing that. We just about Democrats and Republicans garment of offer hammer emma we're gonna pass this legislation that addresses this, and you know you know it's like
One of the examples- I I I it off talking about pandemics, right of a global pandemics, sworn the covert can't pandemic with us like, but were actually underpinned. There's a number of pandemics that are going on worldwide there afflicting humane Now there's a lot of different solutions for those pandemics right. You ve got in inequality is a pandemic. You ve got. You know well, if billionaires, that own as much as half of the world's population. That's not fair! A right now, there's a lot of different solutions. In already, I can feel people getting a little prickly. Like oh he's, a socialist. Now, I'm, not god, bless billionaires they worked hard. They deserve their money back.
We've got to figure out as a way as a species like it's still there still people living in garbage dumps. You know like how do we? How do we rectify this? You know, under god, under the bible, under an understanding that we're all beautiful, divine, sparks and shards of creation and and we're all light and love and heart, and how do we care for the poorest among us, ass. Jesus would have us do so. These questions like income inequality, It's not so much about. I mean yes need to pass some legislation that does certain good things right whatever that is, but we have to go. We have to go deeper. Racism is a great example. we ve passed a lotta legislation, anti racist legislation. Over the years right, I haven't solved
if anything, it's worse now than it was a long time ago. So, but we have to go what's what's the cause of that where it? Why? Why are we in this imbalance? Obviously there slavery and stuff like that we look at the past injustices, but what do we do now putting putting that aside? How do we, learn and go deeper and again it's not gonna, be with a bill or the right politician, and this pass all the bills you want. If people are gonna hate, other people and dislike them the color of their skin and for their culture than words. Screwed, so anyways I could go on and on, but it's about looking at using spiritual tools for a person transformation kung fu tv show, no transformation using spiritual tools for social transformation, star trek, jinx so I mean I could go on and on that basis
it's a passion project at something that I feel is really really important, and I and people have been digging it so well one part of the book that I think kind captures a bunch of this stuff. Is you have you spend some time ago with the idea, that. we create a religion like you, I got a blank slate, I'm not gonna creator, religion, the religion of soul, boom trademark, and you can go through an and again. This is this all builds throughout the book and its, it's off with sort of, I guess might say the traditional things that religions generally contain and you through these sort of initial things that this ten universal it's about religion that all religions share in common
And then you you apply these this new religion, which you know it's fictional, that you created. We created, we put together so number one, a higher power number two life after death, now three. The power and again. This is coming from the fact that you research, you read all these different books. You ve gone down all these. You ve had this spiritual journey of your own. That's where you're you're, putting things together. Transcendence talk me about transcendence. How does trend to sentence pointed with these concepts? Are it's really easy to look at the differences and religions right? It's really easy to kind of say well. Hinduism has has a hundred different er thousand different gods and believes excellency I'm a christian, and I believe in god the father and Jesus son of the holy spirit and redemption salvation and resurrection.
etc, cetera, that's totally different right, that's true, those europe and there as easy to look at those differences, but we need to stop sometimes pause and go to the underlying foundational similarities that connect and bind all the world's religious faiths so that we can work together in even greater harmony. So this section right here, I'm talking about the things at all religious face have in common, which is harder to underline at certain points. So try sentence. Is this idea that we are more than just our material selves we have in all of us in our hearts and our souls in our guts, a longing to belong to find me meaning to rise above just shitting in fucking and eating and working and try to have a good luck.
fright. We we have some longing for something more and this idea of transcendence, which you we can know through god, we can know transcendence through prayer. We can know transcendence through through meditation. We can also know through art, you know and great art, whether it's let out a theatre or it's going to a metallica concert or whether it's looking at a beautiful painting, a re hearing, a beauty, palmer dancer. Whatever it is that the art at its best is transcendence in you, and we all know what we feel that that feeling of uplift mountain and inspiring nation. So this key element that we are more than just our material bodies. We have souls and hearts that long for some kind of meaning bonding beyond just being flesh is part of every faith mission number five community, the hum
I boom are diverse community will embrace inclusion at every level more on that little bit moral compass? This is interesting. People are people, argue this unpopular any what's wrong on popular opinion, but I do believe that our faith, traditions and thou God or a higher power brings us, are. Brings us our morals and our sense of right and wrong, and that there is that's different than ethics So ethics is, you know it's not cool to take the drink that you wanna take off the counter at starbucks just cause, it's been sitting there, but I'm not do it cause. I mean it is like stealing a whatever, but morals come from a higher place right leg in over the ten commandments, come down from the mountains and those there's don't really change a lot of things- about religious faiths, change from from religion or religion or religion. You know we eat this
We need this celebrate this on this day. You know give to the church in this way financially, etc. But this underlying moral compass about we are answerable for our deeds. When we pass We know that the golden rule is a perfect example of this. You know do not too and others that you would have them do unto you like. That's in every religious faith in the world that increases compassion so We as a society with jettisoned religion to a large degree there. You aspect in that in the secular cities and what not and that's understandable, because their religion has done a lot of that shit
but we have also lost a lot and we see that in the decades that have followed, since this has been happening since the sixties or seventies, a lot of falling off of kind of basic human decency, common sense, morality, leading with love and kindness and and mutual support. So I think there is a will. There is a religious backbone and inspiration for living and walking a moral path. The or don't you think you'd be hard to get people to agree on what that thing looks like. I don't think so I don't think so. I think you can do the same thing around morality and you can break it down into like ten basic kind of morals. You don't just even go with the golden rule. You know that doesn't again it doesn't have to do with politics. It doesn't have to do with you,
it's a yeah. It's it's not. You know it's it's it's leading with kindness, love, generosity and compassion and letting that letting that guide us. Well, that's the next one number, seven, the force of love: that's it religious faith, You give a warning here that this is going to get all corny and at least when I try not to use the l word on the podcast just kidding, increase, compassion, certainly something that everyone could you service to the poor. Number nine. Number ten straw. a sense of purpose. Both the council ask individual answers. We seek and the star trek like big picture stuff tat we
culturally, we ve kind of lost our sense of purpose with lost are our goals and I again- I try and be as universal as possible. I would love for a hindu to read this. A muslim Read this an atheist agnostic to read it a born again christian to read it and go. I relate I get that I wanted it to be inclusive of all of those different voices. Bottom, one thing that
again we've jettisoned religion again for a very good reason, because a lot of them have been very corrupt and done really terrible, corrupt things. But in the doing have we lost a higher sense that there is god, the father and I am in service to his will the capital h and I want to make the world a better place and conform, my own behavior and standards to a certain measures to certain standards of morality and serve the poor and make the world better and bring light to the world just as Jesus did brought light to the world and so many different ways and and and the apostles. I don't want to follow in those footsteps, and we can do that individually. We can do it as a family, we do as a community, we can do it as a nation and that doesn't mean can
in everyone to a certain religion, but by honouring these kind of basic found, dashed foundational aspects of faith and we didn't go like you said, you talked about fifteen percent of the bassoon king talks about spiritual side and you give a pretty good. I didn't really cover, but the high faith. This is very behind faith issue in the fact that seems like the high. that the premises very open minded with, like up all religions, have good aspects to him and that's all the kind of the there's a lot of similarities. Would you say: that's an assessment, that's accurate! Yet A lot of it is very high. Inspired I train and not make it up a high borchert on about the by faith or to convert people to behave in its mention a few times in the book But this idea that there are,
universals in in religious faith, and that these universals, our beautiful and true, we should honour those and the you know, there's only one god and were all ultimately in service to this one god and its work together arm in arm side by side with our sleeves rolled up. hindu muslim do christian by high and me the world a better place, and that's that's really. That's really a key part of the book and a lot of that inspiration does come from the bahai faith, which I am still a practicing. Member of I came back round about twenty years ago, oh and I kind of have dough van and a really it's a beautiful faith. I really love it. you go on to say this. There you have it. The sole boom takes on religions, fundamental verities, these elements alone or beef enough for any upstart belief system, but for our ultimate goal,
of making soul boom is relevant to the present moment as possible. I offer up an additional ten principles. The goal of these Next, ten calls to show how this new faith community will brace the ideals needed to remake and progress. Armada, again. This is like a thought: experiment that your basically doing just to let people know you're, not a real, real, literally trying to convince me to be a member of the soul boom. But again, it's important to understand that there's a lot of young people that have just rejected religion, they're like Ugh religion, is bullshit, can't take it. It's like okay, but what have we lost and if it allows you to think about religion and different way? Well, what if we just took the best elements of different religions and put them together in a stew? You know with the work for you, so it's just it's kind of reinvestigating reimagining rebooting the concept of what a religion itself yeah and I love this opener, no clerics like what do you think about religion with no clergy
This is there's not it'd be some people that are in charge of the rest of us yeah yeah. I, the bahai faith, has that the twelve step meetings have that that the twelve step. The twelve steps in a is the most successful spiritual, religious movements of the twentieth century of last hundred fifty years by far and our people are on your twa step, do not their number, I'm sure there is. Can you get a matter? Countless doesn't do that stuff. Hidden Did the other parts have someone googling honour like a bring up right here? Other podcasts have people that sit there for a long period and they go. You know what I could probably serve a purpose. Anything I don't want any computer ominous article makes this type of aid, but he asked me, but you know what echo he's over there. You noise made a couple notes and what now repressed report a few hours ago.
We're getting no information about here any. If someone came in that door, he'd be all on them. Is lack bell, proposing the renewal of the new home back you better Many people are into twelve step yeah I mean there's gotta, be in every city. Thousands, yeah, no question tens of millions? How did you get into that? I got into a backwards when I started doing therapy and I was really unhappy and then I realise that I had been using drugs and alcohol, fruit, superman and porn, and you name it kind of like soothe escape, medicate my pain and then my therapist, like you, might want to check out the twelve steps, causes a room people that have gone through the same thing, so I was already It was kind of weird I can call it white knuckling it where you you get sober without with
the support of twelve steps by a sober at that point, and then I but then I started going, meetings. Thirty, you know, do any drugs or alcohol right now. I don't know how long you been clean for it's been a long time about twenty twenty years, nice, you're so nice, and that twelve step. You said you got into a backwards gas you! I had already been sober fur, a year and a half before I twelve step with no rock bottom to that. You want to go Don't you like Do this year already the harry potter you cause, I insulted harry potter, now are bringing the thunder yes story is a little different and I would love to indulge you and say there. I was Jacko covered in my own vomit lying in the gutter and my life. Why? had left me in. My left eye was gouged out by a hobo with a spear, but
I don't have that I don't have story so much just allow at the time of of just being. For me it's mostly about anxiety, Simon anxiety, disorder for a while, as on medication. Now I dont go on medication for it, but I was trying to medicate and all these different ways. So just was years and years of unhappiness of unbalance. There is in difficulties at my marriage difficulties in my life from from this stuff that I was using and you know I went the therapy and was just deeply unhappy and felt, really lost and and then realize that this is what was wrong, besides, I love to bring you that heading bottom kind of tat, beautiful podcast, hitting bottom story, but is not really about that. So much as like I was embarrassed, I was unhappy. I was
trying anything and everything I could to matter. Even even career ambition can be a medication for, society and and and hating yourself right so part of it for me, was like trying to get that next level as an actor was like I don't make me feel better and that's a culturally sanctioned one. You know we live in kind of a work, a world right, where's like you're, nothing without your career success and- and that's not true- you are something you are beautiful, you're special. You are a child of god. You are a spark of the divine and your mission is to bring out your greatest possible jocko. You know your greatest possible echo your greatest possible Rainn wilson, as under the eyes of of the all watching all powerful god.
and and which is love, and so it was, it's been a long process and therapy in twelve step and in service in, but you know I used to be crippled by this stuff and now I wake up grateful and and content and and focus done during the next right thing, and this process of you know this through full process of therapy twelve step, and then my spirituality may as a high and am studying in writing spirituality meditation of prayer than I do that this combination has really made my life so much and I'm just I'm so grateful so anxiety yeah. What what? What is that like what is, I feel like. What is it? What do you do when you
I have anxiety. What does that feel like? What do you think but what's going through your mind, I can actually really love this question and is a really important question, as people do people and ask that question so not able to kind of start at the very beginning. So, for any, interested in this work and you should have among on the podcast before he dies. Doktor, khobar, matej and I'd always been on lots of other podcast. He is the authority on addiction, trauma and the way he speaks about. It is like He is he's incredible. I mean I guess I can these the albert einstein of addiction and trauma and dumb he's been a lot of a lot of other pods and he's so so brilliant? So there's a couple of it
ways that anxiety works soon. Number one there's normal anxiety, like. Oh I'm doing this podcast here in san diego wonder what the traffic can we like to allay like? Oh I'm supposed to be on. I call it six m. I gonna make it like that anxiety right, but that's normal anxiety and that's gonna come every day. That's gonna come twenty times a day to you right. Young people dont quite understand that it okay to have that kind of anxiety to worry about the future, and always this going to be okay, or is that person mad at me or whatever? It is. So that's one part of anxiety for me, picture this toddler and we have a lot of laughs at the size of my head and what not, but there is nothing were traumatic or sad than a toddler being abandoned a year and a half and not having a mother. Have you ever seen a year and a half you're all when your kids were a year and a half. What was the relationship to their mom near hunt of personnel just all about your mom mom. I was like a like a fool
and being yeah I mean maybe a year and a half they're starting to be okay with me, but that for yeah that that this is all about the mom yeah, so for me to have that taken away theirs. something working on my nervous system that is like, my mom or where's my place, where's, my meaning where's, my am I going to be held? Am I going to be safe like and that's primal right, that is in the hippocampus? That's in the base of the brain. You know, that's the animal flight fight response stuff, it's physiological so that showed up in a lot of different ways throughout my life and it I'd showed up in anxiety attacks in my twenties, where I would literally so funny I was talking this young woman and she was saying, like I anxiety attack cause, I was so afraid that might tax bill was coming in the mail, and I saw it happening unanimity like anxiety, attack
an anxiety attack. Is you think you're going to die? Your heart is pounding. Your lungs can't get enough air you're sweating in your on the floor and your muscles are tensing without you. telling them to do it. That's an anxiety attack and I used it they're still very common. I used to get them by the dozens in my twenties and guess what a little of vodka made me feel better. You know a little hit a little toke We feel better and kind of took that edge off. So I thought, but it was a short term solution. So there's that kind of
anxiety that has to do with trauma and a lot of people have that link to anxiety and trauma. Maybe they were abused as children or or beaten, or had a a difficult time, whatever bullied even and so those are two different kinds of trauma. I mean anxiety, excuse me and then do the thing that I had a therapist say to me once which I really loved, which was trauma is merely an unidentified need, so I keep saying trauma. Anxiety is merely an unidentified need, and I love that some of your feeling that, like unsettled shaky, fearful feeling inside the now?
thing is, like you, don't have to be a victim to your anxiety. So how do you proactively tackle anxiety here? I am I'm having this, then every it full on anxiety attack, but I'm feeling it. How do I? What do I need to? I need a hug. Do I need a nap twenty to work out twenty to get into nature? I need to put my phone down and the screens down and away from me too. I know need to go to the beach watch, the sunset to any decor a friend do I need to get some therapy. Do I need to you? No stop drinking caffeine all day, long too. You know whatever it is, there's so many different ways to do. I need to meditate there's so many ways to tackle that. But it's it's and I love this idea. That anxiety is whether what is a canary in the coal mine it's, it's there to help, you sing, you need something. So it's a good thing: if you City, oh, it's a good thing. It's telling me
I need something, but what what you dont need, as you know, a shot, a whiskey in a and an audible, to see that your cousin you're not really getting up than the real need. That's underneath that so when you go into thereupon there, to talk about like what is the need that you have cause. You can identify yourself get. It yeah. I needed a lot of help. I needed years of help to kind of identify those those needs. I was really not good at it. You think you're way out of anxiety, so if I'm me and twenty years old and I graduated from high school didn't go to college. I. at a girlfriend, I'm starting to think like how am I going to pay for her and I don't really have a good job lined up and all of a sudden. I don't know where I'm going to be doing in five years and she's starting to look at other guys because he likes. So this is to me like what I think. Would cause anxiety too. twenty year old me right like I do.
Know what the future holds? Everything seems I dont automata we doing and if I just About day to day, like hey, I'm going to the ball game tonight or whatever, then I can kind of it's okay, but as soon as I start thinking about the future and in like what can it be? Where going to be how to get money having a paper this us and is that like an example of where anxiety comes from. Well, that's that's one of the aspects of anxiety, that's kind of the first kind witches and is very real like how am I gonna pay this rent? how and I might lose my job among others, my girlfriend fear of future can be an anxiety right so and the twelve deaths will learn the serenity prayer god at me. The serenity, to accept the things. I cannot change the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference. There are certain things you can't. There are certain things you can pro shopped your job and do a better job go to your friend tell your lover be good to her that that's in your country, but whether she leaves you or whether you get fired. That's out of your control right so there that
and called the serenity prayer, because you gain serenity by using that particular tool so anxiety can be, and it usually is a little deeper them that is kind of like Something is wrong. Inside a meme bout, something is out of balanced and I'm off and I am deeply afraid for myself and oftentimes. You can't really put your anger on what it is and that we see so many kids in their teens and twentys right now, living and anxiety and in an anxiety filled world right. So we ve got climate change claims that is a very real thing that you know. Young people are feeling there's political discord and and run age. Social media is really divisive and you know we live in this technical knowledge. world. A lot of kids are being raised by all their different screens. They got their phone in their ipad and their laptop and their tv and there
that's how there being raised. So you know this. We ve seen anxiety, go through the roof bottom yeah arguer, so we ve talked about a lot about not a lot. But we talk about depression, sometimes on this, and we talk about that. People get stuck in the way described is that people get stuck in like a cloud like a storm cloud right and like, let's say you are, pressed in your sat in your bond and Looking to you from the outside and I can, is it. The storm cloud is just around your head. You just need to like come to a you know. Rain come here, walk Three steps forward: you can be out of this thing, but you look in three hundred sixty degrees. You don't see away out right. It's around you anything same thing with addiction like you can see people that payment man eaters King is ruining your life right now and, you need to stop, but they don't see that or this girl that you ve been going out with that's a psycho or this guy? Did you been rather psycho is ruining your life weakens. From the outside so clearly,
and yet they can't see it when it comes to anxiety from like hey, listen rain like the things you're worried about and getting to worry about these things, but it's impossible for me to tell you that I can't exe wayne to you that you're, a dick I can't explain to you that this girl's too horrible for you. I can explain to you that you don't need to worry about this thing in the future. I can explain to you that you don't need to worry about, like you know, there's about the reviews that you get it doesn't matter. You're like doing grades can be great. You like no like. I can tell you that, but it's like something that you have to discover for yourself is: What happens if that's, what happens do you have a pathway to talk yourself through the situations, or is it what we talked about as its twelve step? Is the faith you know, is that what we're doing a lot can such a great question and you asked before about? Can you think your way yes, and no, so You had ryan holiday on here right, love, ryan, eminent stuff. The work is doing. The stoicism I've learned so much from him
he would have some really key things to say from the stocks that I know well here, he'd be quoting like every one of em fourteen guy exasperating and I am sure that cause. I am sure that the stoics dealt with this exact same thing and probably, let's let's go to him the channel and check out. You know what he what he would say so and then and so much of stoicism is like just about having wisdom and thinking clearly so so in some in some regards, some thinking can help, there is a type of therapy therapy called cognitive behavioral therapy and for people who are skeptical of therapy and think it's too ooey gooey, that is a very common as cb tea, cognitive, behavioral, therapies, very meat and potatoes kind of, like oh you're, afraid of flying. Okay. Let's look at the data around flying. Let's pretend you're on an airplane. Let's, let's talk about that? Why don't you journal about like it's really about getting this stuff? That's what they call limbic, which is at the base of the brain where, in that animal fight flight response and getting it up in
here, conscious, cerebral cortex, in which I have a gigantic one centre. Then down. I was the amount renting out space here, Niccolo billboard loaned me on poor darling you on their I'll, get you some money for that serious! Absolutely! Don't you have a good science fiction I ran out space and beforehand for advertising. Oh my god, this is great yeah we're doing their job, okay, it's on, and so that very much about thinking, but to up the problem with thinking. Is that- and this starts to get a little bit crazy? Do you ever meditate? no okay, so in meditation there is this element where your your the buddhists call it. The monkey mind rides here: it's like a popcorn machine up in your brain political little little little right, you're talking about someone in the fog and they're not able to see it. So you meditate and
your thoughts are still bouncing around. You can let your thoughts go. And then you hit a certain point, and it's really not that difficult to do where you're kind of up above yourself not not floating above hippy, dippy stuff but you're. Just literally seeing yourself in your thoughts and your little detached from your thoughts, and maybe you have some thoughts, but you have this other part of yourself that is kind of like witnessing the thoughts and that's the witness part of ourselves and that's our higher self. That's our that's our true self! So then you
kind of look down on your thoughts and like oh, I wonder if I could call him back. I didn't return that text oh shoot. I was supposed to pick up a mango for dinner. You know you know all of that kind of stuff and you realize. Oh, that's not me. That's that's my thinking, brain which is really important. We need that, but that's not who I am so meditation gets you closer in touch with your real self. Your present self, your ancient self that which is the witness. So I would say that thinking can be very limited, as we know cause we've, it's very hard to think yourself out of the situation, but even even like what you talked about like you have to find it for yourself, yeah
if you do have to find it for yourself, but we can do that in community. We can do that in relation with each other. So therapy is simply a process of like you're, paying someone. You ultimately gain their trust and they trust you so you're, not no bullshit. No one else is listening. You can lay everything out on the table and be like. I hate this mother fucker and I bow One time I did this and when I was a kid I stole that you could just lay it all out, get the shame out of the way and the therapist is just so present for you and then the president. The therapist is very keen at seeing all those behaviors. You know the girlfriend the drinking whatever it is, and it isn't going to tell you what to do, but it's going to tip little breadcrumbs lead you down the path
so that you make that decision yourself in the twelve step program. It's a similar thing in that you share at meetings. So you turn your anxieties, your fears, your issues into stories and you share them, and then you pick up the phone. A lot of the tossed up meetings is just staying in touch with guys from the program and then laying it out. I do it all the time everyday event about something and I'm pissed at this from afraid of this, and and and you share and there's healing in that, and sometimes you get feedback or you solicit feedback. If you trust one enough. What do you think you know, and so that's part of that healing of anxiety to so there's a lot of tools out there and there's sir sloppy will know the stuff we better than me, but it's it's the disease of the modern age. ok, so glad I really like dove into this, because ok, so I wrote a book called leadership, charging tactics,
but we should try and tactics. I talk about this idea of detachment, which I call a superpower and explain where I've discovered it for the first time I was doing some training and I was assaulting a tour of training target and in to figure out what was happening. I had like take a step back literally, take a step back off the firing line and look around and was able to see what was happening and I was able to make a tactical decision when no one else really did, even though I was really young and really junior, and when we- down with this training evolution, I likewise it. How did I know what to do and no one else did it's, because I took a step back I'd detached I looked around and I could see start doing that when I was having conversations with people when I was starting to feel like I'm getting mad about something I could just learned to detach, and so the and that's why I'm curious about this stuff, because when we're talking about anxiety, I literally dont know what
is and the reason I dont know what it is is because I'm taking a step back mentally looking at it, go now you're freaking out! That's your ego! Talking about your emotions, talking you're, worried about something that you can't control and I've always kind o wondered why I dont know what it is and why I'm able to deal with things cause? I am able to deal with things. You know I've been through some pretty. Relatively hard things and I'm like ok with it. And now I'm from hearing what you're describing I'm like. Oh yeah, I have seen those things in my brain, but it's from a detached perspective. So I see myself oh you're, getting caught up in the fact that you have lost some friends and you can bring him back and you should be mad about that. That's that's your emotions and you two emotional and letting back or o. This purse did me wrong and I'm gonna make them owner. Let's just your ego talking, they actually won and beat you fair and square, and why you should just be congrats like them for doing well. So
when I was when I was asking you, can you think you're way out of it That was the wrong way of of scribe being what I was thinking because too thinking is like getting wrapped up in the emotions and the ego and all that chaos to me Thinking is a cold on a second take a step back. What I should have Can you detaching look at it saved from the outside, because truly what we want to do. You know what I'm looking at you and I see that you're caught in a storm clouds. What I want to be able to do is like a brow, just discussed we argue everything's me. Ok, it's coming before, but you Like you said I have to, you to see that for yourself, I have to get you to see that this woman that your vote is a train wreck or this drug? That you're using is a disaster where this job that you got is you need to get away from it or what the case may be, I've got it you to be able to see that I can explain it to you all day. You won't listen, you can't it doesn't change your point of view from you explain it to you twenty times. At some point I can
I explained at some point, you ve got to step out. You really take a look at him. Go holy shit jock! Oh, I see what you're talking about this is bad good drinking coming to get rid of that girl, I'm adequate this job whenever that thing is I'm gonna lose my ego. I'm gonna stop thinking comparing myself and to stop reading the reviews in the new york times about my acting or whatever doesn't matter doesn't matter? Ok, I get it but my ego aside, so to me That's a very powerful thing and again it takes work, I got. I stumbled into it as a young frogman stumbled into the fact that all taken a step back and looking around is very beneficial and I added it to everything in my life, I haven't as actually one of my questions was gonna good. You think, will you do in therapy like what I do and you've kind of explained it also. I don't have to cross that if down to look at this three times, I've written down therapy course mark their big question. Mark there I dunno what the hell happens in there, but I'm like how does help you now you've explained like oh they're, asking questions there there
luring you out of your brain, there are warning you out of your brain so that you can see what it looks like and go. Oh shit limit. Let me a man that a loser it, because if you just talk from a physiological perspective like Hubert Might you know you're not luring it out of the brain, eared luring it from one part of brain the other part of the brain. So so much of anxiety. Fear russian depression is happening at our lizard one of our brain and it's just firing down there and then then, and again, therapy may not be your bag. There's a lot of different ways to do it. You know you might do it in church or through a group or just with friends or whatever, but your physiological taking all of that activity in the brain, stem and your moving it up into the cerebral cortex. So by talking about it, you're then
able, because this is where all the higher functioning stuff happens. So you take it out of the lizard brain and you move it into the into the angel brain and trademark Rainn Wilson. Twenty twenty three royal, around my podcast? So arts actually saw how much I pity you out of my job intellectual property, warburton bruce. I never should have come on air, but but but part of the process of part of the talking. therapy it's like and it gets a bad one. But part of it is to take you not your feet, your shame. Your anxiety depression, though those deepest darkest things that are like going on weighed down there in the shadows in the corner of the closet, bring him to the front of the clause. shining, a nice light on it, and then you are able to make some decision. Ok, once that's happened now. What are you gonna? Do you a victim when choices are you gonna make because it can? Some therapy is bad it just stays there in the talkie talk and it's like
talk for awhile, get it into the light. Unlike what? What are the three things? You're gonna do every day to make this better and a good therapist will lead their client toward behind making pro active to see were there no longer effect on the other. That was another thing that I found when p what asked me about like grief and one as I I. Unfortunately, we have had to write a lotta eulogies right, and I realise that in doing that, oh there It was a way for me to process. That was a way for me to think through. That was a way for me to bring some of those emotion and to the surface and back ok, I can see them now. let them out here we go and that's why You know what you're saying about therapy is something that I've done through writing and even just riding on a eulogy which is a horrible freakin task. You know spin seventeen hours hey they want
to talk like or you know, hey are you gonna speak? Yes, I am cycle, gets been seventeen hours in now, I have to write and I got it If these things out on paper and stuff is so helpful to be able to do that which are part of journaling, is a very valuable tool. That does that exact same thing and that's what you're talking about and then in twelve step you to step works here, do in that same thing, but again, that's always a process of taking down from alembic system to the higher part of the brain, there's more to it than that, but that you're one of the elements of it ok, going back to the sole boom religion year number? of diversity, plus harmony thirteen, so travel b of the divine feminine talked me on that one, sir, and some of my reading and research. I noticed that some, the
Humanity put a kind of the feminine does divine at the center of conversation of worship and early on in humanity's history, and then around three thousand five thousand bc. It became all about the conquerors and the god of you know the god of earth, the god of Babylon or the. Out of baghdad or the god of today or whatever that that conquered, then you or you guys have to worship this god and it's usually a battle god in a war. God- and you know the greek war gods and stuff like that so but before all that it was me More of goddess and feminine qualities, nature it had to do with birth.
I had to do with the seasons and a connection to the divine was found through kind of feminine, more feminine qualities, and I do think that we are sitting on a table covered and knives, but I do think that we ve kind of arm with over mass humanised are our contemporary world and I don't mean that to be at all like some kind of criticism of masculinity masculinity and leadership, honour integrity, being provider knives.
An occasional knife and occasional gone when necessary, a lot having forty five guns in a closet, but but this stuff is really important right, but we ve just got just skewed in the balance a little bit, and so it would be good to kind of reexamined some of that. Some of those feminine elements, especially of of the divine and worship and connection to like mother earth and just like the beauty of nature and the birth cycle in spring time and what happens with flowers and with with baby we have all these rabbits and my property on these baby bunnies hopping around. You know it's like the easter bunny literally the spring, and it's these little east. There is your buddies everywhere. You know, but a reconnection too, that I think is something we could benefit from a conversation about, Number fourteen cooperation between science and faith, number fifteen found connection to the natural world I serve.
the using when people ask me if I meditated s or from a digital, because from what I understand. That's a lot. Did you do both at the same time? Well, no, it can't you needed detached go back to tat, harder, profound connection of the natural world. Nobody here, you're, absolutely right that you know we think of this as meditation, but walking in the woods this mediterranean walking on the beaches method. and certainly surfing is meditation the act, but also time you're out there like and your belly just like in a like. It's it's so soothing and healing. Also it's important understand that walking It is a mediterranean in and of itself they ve done studies about what we stopped walking. Seventy years ago, humans used to walk Hundred thousand years, all we did was walk around all the time and theirs
and healing about walking in it literally heels the brain like your left hemisphere and right hemisphere, that impulses go back and forth while you're walking and its its brain healing, and they ve done studies about how walking reduces anxiety, how it d reduces depression of any of your kids all day. Sitting like this and they're, not you their legs. So that's a different kind of meditation as well. There's a lot of physiological ways. Do it and I Tennis and I find very meditative because in tennis you ve gotta just look at the ball, that's it! You can't be thinking about your email. You need to write you just. You just have to see the boy I imagine in jujitsu, it's all about being completely in the moment like It's your opponent, throwing at you and what you're in and stuff like that so all of a sudden you're out of an hour and a half session, you're like work out an hour and a half years, went by seriously like holy shit. You know, and I feel that way come out of it out of a tennis.
I never heard that thing about walking before, but it definitely makes sense because it's one of those things where it's like. It's like when you're a kid like go for a walk like to calm down right, yapping, to go for a walk around the house and then you think about when everyone got locked down during covert op, god I never thought of that before they like you, you can't even walk anymore. You just sit here in your room. Wiping down your groceries might not crazy number. Sixteen sensuality of justice was all about. I think that there is, we think about justice in terms of like the court system right or congress or the supreme court, or something like that, but there is some. There is right and wrong. It's connected to morality, there's like right and wrong and justice what what
what is right and what is wrong is inherent in our belief systems and for me: it'll be really important to if you're, creating this made up fake religion to have justice, be a part of it are conversations about what is again insist. What is just what is fair, what is right and wrong, and then how can we use spiritual tools to help? You know move that forward, not necessarily the court system, but how can we rectify injustice by using greater spiritual powers, number seventeen, a life of service, number eighteen, practical, spiritual tools, what your top spiritual tool Well, you know I talked about meditation, that's one of the tools about like detaching from your thoughts. That's a that's a spirit
whole tool. That literally I can sit down in five minutes in my life is a shambles. I'm a girl- and I could just kind go like this, and I can breathe and just detached with love from my own thought process, and I can gain greater clarity right and really anyone can just taking some deep breaths but just taking some breaths as a form of meditation who taught you how to meditate. I just taught myself cool, no big, it doesn't have to be fancy, you don't need a fancy teacher or an app or and like that, although there's lots of great tools out there and it's a lot of them are free on youtube and but Russell brand has a great ta. He does some meditation very first person talks on podcast and- and I will hear one from the by faith, the son of the founder of the by faith. His name was abdul behalf. He said
if a man has ten good qualities and one bad quality focus on the ten and forget the one if a man has one good quality and ten bad qualities, focus on the one hand forget the ten and that's a lot easier said than done right. So we work people write and maybe they're just rate all around, but they ve got one asshole quality. Maybe they don't listen very well. They interrupt you or something like that, but otherwise there, the kind there good guys. This isn't funny. How
just cut this guy, who always interrupts me and we don't look at like always compassion is kind he's smart he's funny is this or that we just look at that. One thing right and, and likewise you gotta work with people that the office is a great example of this. You know they have ten bad qualities. You know they sometimes sometimes I have dealt with people that have tried me so much and tested me. So much and I'd love to hear the the military version of this when you're, with a platoon of guys like- and you each other's sweat and you're shitting in the same bucket and stuff what that's like, but you know, I've had to work with people where it's literally like everything they say and do drives me daddy and bugs the shit out of me, so I just have to find that one part like oh, they have kind eyes or other, very well, groomed or or they say
be patient or whatever it is. You find that one thing like focus on this: it's a practical spiritual tool to make your life better and make your day battersea, not spending your whole day going like jacket as this and echo does this, and why does Bobby always do that new to spending all your time, focusing on all of the the negativity and you to wait a focus on the positive had a guy named captain charlie, plum on his part gas to use a pilot and vietnam. He was shot down on his seventy fifth mission, which would have in his last mission, who shot down and captured, and you put that no help for six years trees and he had this, they had a rule. Those prisoners of war had a rule and the rooks, because they would put numb prison cells and they have a roommate they usually have a room for like six months a year year and a half in the. get another roommate. Sometimes even three man rooms to mandarins form in remote, the deal this whether dealing with, but they a rule,
that if your cellmate did something that lloyd you. It was your fault, and to me that answers the question juice gave her. How like, like you, you know living in a cell and every night, while I'm trying to go to sleep you're like picking your nose and like picking your buggers onto the wall near my head. Like you know me exactly, you see like a burger flicker of sensitive immediately but sit there why are you doing this? Instead, I go it's my fault for letting this annoy me. It's my fault and that's just a great way to do it way to turn it and it's a survival skill, because if you're going to, in that cell and just be annoyed by everyone for Six years I went to that Hanoi hilton did you did you yeah I was arrested by like forest park police department. He cannot nineteen eighty one
now I went on vacation too, were to vienna What did Charles, who did you have flashbacks renew the helm of the lake shore taste apart from holding cell leg man? I got me where's, terry man, they kill terry, dare come back it coming in the words of the oven everybody's got their vienna. Man that's great but yes, the vietnam is a great place by the way in, and the vietnamese people are so awesome and beautiful and they love americans they really actually don't like the Chinese, but they love americans and they totally because people go and I even went like our making it look weird like we invaded europe train bombed by doing ass. You are gonna, look weird, but well anyway, you're saying they looked up like a giant white faces, Dave alone of fleshy core puzzle above me, but it's a great
place people are so warm and wonderful on in Hanoi, just city, but then Hanoi, hilton him, while it sir it so it's like visiting a holocaust memorial worsening. It's just anyway yeah six years, you're so totally insane and All right number team emphasis music and arts yeah thing all too often we lose sight of that some, of religion and faith and spiritual celebration at its best- incorporates music and dance and arts end and drama storytelling. Look at the success of a lot of the christian faith recently, and you know how uplifting music is at church and stuff, like that,
so in this fictional religion of soul boom think that arts need to be a part of it. I I access I access so much of like heart, based spiritual feeling, through art and through through music, and I could never be a part of like some kind of boring practice that doesn't feature the arts near. You pointed out our talking about the veterans and there's a lot of like art therapy we'll go to and start doing whatever free crochet or pain or whatever it like makes me feel better. So there you go in the last one can see. Crochet crushing is a big one for me how the number twenty humility. And last, but certainly not least so, booth if admits that it doesn't know the best way to do anything, we don't have any absolute answers. We we're in a humble posture of learn
We provide, but a few markers guide posting whose along the winding path of the spiritual game of life, a morsel of meaning. Soupcon of serenity that there was some soup saw, as if all say, a colonel of the eternal like tat way. and put your questions, one weight, so you'd you'd. You know to me and I ve always right and say: humility is a most important character, for leaders and for people to have who were lacking a lot of in the world now because I actually think I know exactly what the answer should be and therefore I hate you because you don't agree with my aunts. Everyone does just look at twitter. Her ex all you have to do is read x and everyone knows the best way yeah yeah so boom are fictional. Religion is a humble, relate yeah. I think that one
the things that has turned so many young people off from religious faith is kind of like this kind of like certainty and judgment pronounce, immense. This is the way it is so we just have to hear as we walk our spiritual path, keep open, hearted and keep questioning and and stay humble, and you know not always think we know the best way. You know it's hard, it's hard for me cause. I know a lot and I usually do know the best way, I'm getting much, but it really is important, and I love that you say that about leadership because its I know it's part of your dichotomy, of leadership, but the you know
humility and service and really surrender and that's an interesting thing about twelve step. Recovery, too, is that you find strength and surrendering that's like weird and it's counter intuitive, like strength is willpower like you have a you, know, alcohol problem or a sex problem or a shopping problem or an eating problem or a relationship problem where, like you, just gotta will yourself out of it and you know, and will, determination, are important qualities, human qualities we wouldn't have have our civilization without it, but sometimes there are things that you just have to do, that you have to surrender and then, in that surrender you find great strength and up and that that's an interesting one as well. There is an interesting one. True when it comes to like leadership from humility perspective, you have to have a look a high level of confidence in order, it'd be humble, so it's always the people that lack confidence that don't act humble, but if I'm actually confident I'm like. Oh you know what rain it sounds like. You've got to
plan than I do want? We gotta use your plantier, whereas if I'm, if I our confidence that, unlike in all my plans, better my plan and that's problematic all day long and if you do have one bonus thing which I think is a big head here for your religion. It's a pot, locks policy. as parliament's play each part in bringing people together one of the greatest contributions to human civilization brought to us by our native american brothers and sisters. The everyone brings a hot dish and my dad had one recipe it was a tailor, taught casserole nice It was clear. Cream soup and I think a layer of tater taught more cream soup and then cheese and the tailor tarzan and cheese bake on three. Fifty four, like twenty minutes, each put the frozen dear healthier and then it
it's so good, I find you gonna, say potato chips on top cause. I know my mom would make like the whatever kind of casserole she was making. Another was casserole, hamburger, help, recast role or chicken canned. There was potato chips on top think about the clown salad on top, this council to think something. It's and thing. You wouldn't understand all right, so that does like one small section of soul boom and again, really cool read. The audio book, which is which, great. I listened to the sample of the audio book as well and tonic. If the pondering here idealistic book, it's a very idealistic book, and I,
we caught myself being like all on a second, there was a frequent think everyone's and I caught me of being like kind of a reactionary to some of your thoughts in there and then I thought to myself way. Why can't? Why not be idealistic? Why not tryin to the door do agree with everything that is said before I a second? What what do you mean by that? I can't I found I've been a victim of my own when I just talked about like wall e, obviously has never been in that situation before other. Why not? What does he trying to say and Are we not better to have an open mind, and this is again. This is one of the things that got asked recently. You know talking about going to war somewhere with china or russia or whatever people are asking you all. What would you be thinking about, and I said, one of the most important thing that I would be thinking about. If we were to go to war, there would be having an open mind because I don't know what's going to happen and what the enemies gonna do. I don't know the way things are:
to unfold. I dont know what we haven't thought about and where people get as they have a closed mind in battle and in life. have a close mind they already think they understand kind of like Kristen, you said playing that role where, bombed on Broadway? You already knew In your mind, how you were supposed to act and that's what you're going to do and you can stick with it a closed mind and not an open wind and not a humble mind either and not a humble my arm. Well, one of the. at the end, I put in seven pillars of a spiritual revolution, and could I really do think it needs revolution in one of them is to foster joy to squash cynicism. So his cynical and pessimistic and negative is an easy fallback position. Anyone can do it. You can just be like. Oh that's a bunch of shit, that's never going to work, bullshit
that's an easy as an easy answer. It's easy way to leave your house join right in with you cause, that's easy to like you want to complain about them and how this good jump out and complying with you are brothers now. So, if you, if we think a little bit deeper, you know squashing, that cynicism and instead turning that joy, like I'm, not help. any one of my having myself and I'm not helping the world sting pessimistic and cynical. I need to bring joy to the world, I'm in a brain. joy to the world by up bring. I want to uplift people. I want to inspire people. I wanna come in europe, one other thing. You know my dad passed during poverty, dot died of heart disease, but he passed away. my grieving process thought a lot about his best qualities like and something that want to emulate is like every room he went into. He made a better place, every room me went into even if it's like the clean.
lady or the hotel made or e at the sky bucks or whatever it is like. He was always like hey brother, nice to see you like how's it goin like that's a nice watchword. What? What is that like her? How do you your head, that way like whatever it is like he's, he's curious, enjoy and uplifting. Unlike an his remembrances and memorials like that's what was was shared like he always made each room a better place in I'm so fortunate, that I got was fucked up in a lot of ways fundamental. Mistakes have a lot of issues, but that was just a beautiful quality that he brought oh, if we're gonna, have a spiritual revolution, we can't when you're, pessimistic and cynical. You sit back right when you joyful your pro active and you're, making choices to try and make things better and positive.
Let's talk about a lot about giving service right and service to others, but spreading joy is maybe the most important service that we can do so we can go into room. You can make someone laugh, you can complement them and you can go and two when someone is sick, and and and a or sing a song and bring up some jello or whatever, and you uplifted them and made them better. That's one of them ass services that any human can give to another human sophia? feeling a little bit lost squash, that cynicism just try and get a little bit of joy each day. Guess what you'll feel happier by giving joy to others and then the cycle repeats and weakens add this like a virus and yeah, it's a little bit kumbaya and a little bit a little bit, idealistic and and hippy dippy, but I believe that world peace is possible and I believe that humanity can mature. I think our lives can get better and we can make the world a more beautiful and joyful place. We've just got a lot of work in front of us
got some work to do in that yeah. On that front, I was talking to some young for some young seals the other day and or and they did I'm going back in the water and a sort of these young seals the other day, and you know it It won't even wonder in the seal teams. You still do a bunch of training and I used to run that training and but I bye in through that advanced training, the dancer deployment of seven times are gone through this cycle of training and one thing I did. I always did was no matter what we were doing as I took it as seriously as I possibly could like not serious like oh we're, not gonna have fun, but like okay. This is what we're doing we're in do our best at it be, my daughter is again are always is unrealistic or oh. I can't believe it now oh this which wants to call we're gonna, knock it off the park, and that re framing that to taking a positive attitude on what you have to do. It just makes
the difference in the world and you can immediately change a whole platoon their attitude. If you have a shitty attitude, europe tunes attitude will be city. If you have a good attitude, like others hey this trip my team will betrayed what is going to have that we cannot get out of the park and others, Oh yeah, I think we can It really does spread so You're talking about a large scale, deafening but on a small scale as well. The so that so that sober aren't. I if the referring to go in depth on solve them, you have to come back bro cuz. I mean this is already getting along well, but you have other stuff going on right now. You have a podcast. metaphysical milkshake YAP. Is that not upon cast? It is upon us it's kind of our ones kind of is. It is wiser down at sunset. And I did it with our reza aztlan. We talk about metaphysical questions about them of life and love and pain and wonder and being a human being, it's been great but
I think I'm gonna move and try and do more of a soul boom podcast, that's a little bit more about spiritual ideas, hookers hope, but in the next couple of months at some point some tea