This is jack. Guess number four, o four with echo charles and me java, willing good evening echo good evening. We talk a lot about the path and when we do know what the path is, generally speaking, the path of discipline, the path is due. The right things for the right reasons. The path is law, term strategic thinking and delayed gratification instead of short term thinking. An instant gratification path is taken care of other people. The path is being humble: the path is being balanced. And being on vat path. Capital t capital, p, leads us down the path of our lives.

In our decisions impact what we do where we end up and when we stray from the path our life is negatively impact it, but when we stay on the path the positive results over time will come now. Of course, there's no guarantees. Life gets a vote. Chance gets a vote. There is such a thing is bad luck. We cannot spade everything. There are some things that are actually beyond our control. Then, when those things occur, we take ownership of how we respond and we learn from the good from the bad from the ugly we learn and tonight We have with us a friend Who has learned a lot machine glass he's a former seal officer, a com that veteran with tours in Iraq.

Afghanistan Leadership in the seal teams he's also lead in the business world war. In the start up and then starting its own start up, he's a husband, a father. A leadership instructed echelon front and he's here tonight to share some of his experiences and lessons learned about leadership and life shop jungle. Thanks for coming down? Man thanks for joining us, appreciate you having me what I miss that I miss anything on your intro. You are here and then you business? Your dad forty, five kids, five kids, as of now time now jack, we're still work still time young. I like it my way was at tat doubt it for the item. You no more. There were at five com which my wife's one eight so

No she's down for the cautious you down to the cause tesla jet ran on, or I will keep our fingers crossed I will start at the beginning of our work, from what she I got here where its witted all start. We are born, so I go in a small town in texas. I tell people that is called course. Mechanic is that's the only town that does big enough that people might finally recognise on a map of their familiar with texas, but I did not I We live in course a of course canna was where we did in schools. Or stuff like tat, but I lived on our small ranch in a town called blooming grove and I didn't really even live in blooming grove. We were literally just out in the middle of nowhere but there is no name for your views. It literally no name uncharted my world and even have a name. My room was my road was called farm. Road thirteen ninety, like they just ran out a names base, we started numbering them just started. Let's put a number on august: literally, no one cares about this road out there, so

the nearest town to me was a town called berry and it had like seventy three people- total population so we had sixty acres small ranch operation out there, but we lived about twenty minutes outside it. And so very rural in the town is the town with seventy three people, the town is corsican, is the town And since that we had to go, we get groceries, want not groceries school sports gasoline. All that stuff was course again. See you're in the middle of nowhere literally the middle of nowhere yeah. And what did your dad do? So? My dad was an entrepreneur him and his brother started a company. They had a bunch of different stuff going on out there their lives by eta. When I was young, their main thing was a handsome barbershops at the opened up authorized texas, totally random. They always apple than real estate. They re

nor my dad when horses on the ranch for a little bit just kind of pseudo entrepreneur, trying all kinds of different stuff out the probable the consistency was real estate, always cut up, buying and selling real estate. You know my dad was a large nor allegedly, but about the success with business was horrible yeah, like He would start businesses and we were just lose money like our family would lose money, then go in the hall and it was just terrible. I'm surprised. I've ever tried any business at all costs. Kind of mentally scarred. I'd, see my dad like start businesses and put money into omen remorse staff and all of a sudden, got your coffee cup and I'm sure there was some of that stuff go on. We had lots of horses and then one day we had not lots of horses. So I'm sure there was some of that stuff that happened, but I'm sure they were also trying to keep some of that stuff from us. But

What about the barbershops? Yet there There is still one, maybe that's still up and running out of the seven. I think that they started, but we is there food on the table? You know he always provided a super hard worker. You know we always made sure that we were provided for for sure, but some ventures more successful than others. You know echo and I talk about like when you when you get an idea and you go, our business right, you'll. U, R, l right back in the day, you didn't get to you, well, there was no internet, so my dad would have liked business cards, made led by his guards made like a new business thing like that. You know: we'd have years later. We just have like a box of business card in the business name and yeah and like a big debt Not only that, luckily for me and my family, my dad was doing all this on the site. You know only agree to use a schoolteacher, my mama's. Teacher. So he would take

Does I guess, with some other some of the you? No money from his regular job, but is none of it ever paid out so yeah. It was kind of a butler. But he won't even trinity barbershops. Anything like I think this The money is really is the barber's, and what about your mom she was a teacher so yeah, so she started off as a medical Pretoria technologist, I think you're too mission, so she's working in hospital, doing labs all kinds of stuff, and then when we were born, she wanted to be home I thought, so she took a step back from that and started teaching so throughout grown up. That's all I knew was ass. She was a teacher. What were great societies? so she taught when we went to are elementary school. She was working there at the elementary school teaching high school science at first. And then we had had a junior college in our town course canna called in the van

oh college, which shot out in a barrel colleges, river watched, which I'm sure you have not the show about your leaning on netflix, that's navarro navarro college was known for their nationally recognizable championship cheerily. Squad damn so eventually she made the trains will eventually being our school shut down and then she transport over to the college in co, taught. Therefore, I want to say twenty twenty five years and then just retired two years ago run on, and you said we meaning the kids. Would you have four brothers this two sisters, one older sister, two years and one younger sister lighting owners, it has the same right as I am one older sister, one younger cinder were all about two years. Apart yeah we are close grown up. I don't know I'm in so I'm not sure I think we're probably we we we we yeah. We were fine, you know, but we all a lot different. You know what I mean so there wasn't a lot of you know

The one lotta hang it now out. I guess you, I say same here very different. I think we're closer how can we ever were? I would say I would say we are two year plus. I think I was a real kind of an asshole I was not the best for sure. Yeah to my little sister, there's. Definitely some emotion, scarring in horror stories, think my elder sister hates we hated them more than my youngest. So I was kind of like colored, my younger self's, pretty pretty much an asshole to my older sister. Sometimes, but then we, We also hung out. We also had like a group of friends together, so I don't know, I guess it was. I guess it would be about average sounds like it's about the same as yours, which means we're doing about the same thing, in essence? What are you doing here? What are you doing? like foreign. How old are you? What are you doing so you we had sixty acres, which, when you're a kid you I live on

the acres now in virginia and it's a good piece of land for sure. But it's not you know a national forest or anything like that, but when you're five or six fourteen years old them in sixty acre seems like a vast wilderness, so I was outside, we like I said we lived in ITALY. Nowhere so win or day would basically be you'd. Wake up would take care of the animals you'd go to school. If you had sports, you know you do your sports and then, when it came time to come home like that, was it for the night. You weren't doing anything else, you're not going back into town, because got something so a lot of time, just roman around the property in our property was probably six these sixty five percent woods and then the rest was pasture, so I would just disappear into the woods and no pretend like I was

cowboy or a soldier and just wreak havoc and for a time a very short time. My cousins lived next door relative next door right, like their. You know, half mile down the road, basically the next piece of property, but we would link up and just run amok in the in the wilderness. Basically did you have any water features we did where we had some pawns for the livestock and then we also had when it would rain. We had a pretty good sized little creek that ran through the woods, and that to me was the coolest thing. My dad, both a little bridge out of railroad ties across the water forests and may we thought we were like in the jungle when we were back. Yeah taxes is we're. Dockers, they cow a dry creek as a creek is dry. Ninety percent year, like I'd, look at The state of texas is back o creek and I'll look at pictures, its african under heading three of the key word. You want to look for fairer, for what is more if we just live Water near lies, water,

so you're out there running around. Did you have guns yeah, so had begun. First, like my, my parents. Dad did knocker what in the country, so he moved us all out there to give us that type alive, but he grew up in a city, his parents, we're both musicians. They played in orchestras all across the country they played in the dark. Orchestra when he was growing up like you know, did not have the rural existence like we did so not a lot of familiarity with guns, but We had the twenty two's and stuff like tat and he would take us out their shootin and then we always had our baby guns and then, when I became little bit older you sixteen seventeen, yet the shotgun run around the property and what not, but mostly be begins. Intelligence, pellet guns and whatnot and then you have to go to twenty minutes get school. And what, you goin on public school. So you know, and we went to a small christian school in Corsica, now started by about the time that we started being

wages, kids, butscha parents got together and started. This is kind of an alternative, basically to the the public school there. Just a lot of choice and energy of the public school or you were going to this one private. What's the population of course again when I was a kid probably like twenty one, twenty two thousand, I think it sitting around like thirty thousand nine hours, like that, but it's a decent size tat. We had a walmart at a time. Had a kmart before came around a business. So when I was a kid I was like big time haven't came or in walmart, so yeah that twenty thousand, That's a christmas shopping got done it already all data, their blue eyed special. The blue asked universally oh yeah, you so We went to their small school and it was interesting, experience because it was kind of a blend of probably peril we're very like minded in wanting to teach their kids. You know the things that faith aspect of life. Because it was the only other school in town. If you got booted out of them,

school you will go into their. The small christian school so there was the hellenes was blind of learning, and it happened tat course again, accretion academy for sure, and are you playing sports? plain sports, but again it was. It was pretty selective, just based off of the population of that school, so we didn't have enough to feel the football team or anything like that. So was based soccer. We barely had enough to to put together a soccer team, so soccer and basketball didn't have enough for baseball. Didn't have enough for like a track team. Anything like that, so realize pretty quick basketball was not going to be like two for the future, so stuck with with soccer so play soccer. Basically, all my life up until college timeframe, how come you couldn't play basketball Genetics Bobby had a piece of that work. Ethic probably had another piece of that.

I just never really applied myself to the skill of basketball. I loved it. I like being out there in my playing around with my buddies. I was just never going to go anywhere. Basketball beat a six foot tall guy with limited athletic athletic abilities. That was not going to be my sport, but soccer you. I was decent. I was not great, but again it comes down more to my lack of actually apply myself to any sport whatsoever. I give you contrast me to mice sister, my younger sister, who went to play diwan college at tc you for four years. I would argue you exponentially more naturally gifted I was very fast. I was athletic. Letting did not apply myself whatsoever like didn't, enjoy the experience, a practice alike plain in the games, but you contrasts out with her. She would be at home. If we were at home, she was plain soccer. She was kicking the ball off. The side of the good

image which drove my parents crazy. She had net set up and she was always practicing and surprise surprise hard work paid off and she got scholarships to go play at a diwan college and I did not get the same opportunities post high school to go. Play cod ecology. Where cause you are a slacker. I was a very big slacker when it came to to sport. All right. Then you you get done with the school you do you go to like a christian high school is well known, the christian school kind of tapped. Out about the time I was going into high school age. I think ninth grade was my last year at the crucian school and then I think it just kind of ran out of steam run out of funding. Parents were sending their kids there, so we went to the the public school for tenth, eleventh and twelfth grade I graduated from there played soccer, there did everything. What position are you playing soccer? I was a defense, usually right right back on defense. Now. What else are you into? this time, you're gonna, highschool vieira, An internal border grades like I've, agrees with decent, but again not

the apply myself to it, but I was pretty naturally able to foreign goods study habits and I would pick things up pretty quickly, so asian bees, ya think I had one c on my record, but again that wasn't from over books when I got home and crack and it was more just get by on natural talent and then part two hours I had an ability to bill good relationships with my teachers. Now think they kind of watching For me, you haven't our did you I didn't do homework, we brought it. Bring in its kind of crazy you're see this when you're kids get a little older guy like when they get the high school. My kids? Why should see this? My daughter's did a lot my son, somehow I don't know he was set up. If not, I was gonna, get smile, the skinny john they're. Here he would make good relationships. We avengers hazel and thou probably help him out there that I did not have homework. That often- and if I did, it was always last minute stuff

it was I pride myself on my ability to procrastinate and then I am and get the job done. When I was in high school for the most part Speaking to jobs, reworking I was working all kinds of different stuff in high school, so when you're in texas, you can get a what they call it. Maybe it's a learners parliament when you're are workers permanent when you're fifteen to get your license. If you have a job and saw was like if the car and have some freedom a year earlier. If I have a legit job, so I had a bunch of different jobs that I was working. I was a ranch hand for a little bit for some of our neighbors, which, if you've ever tried ranch handing in texas in the summertime highly recommended it's a very. Joyful experience, their character, building very character. Would he do it as a ranch in fifteen years already have to do so? A lot of it was mending fancies taking care of the poor. Pretty this older couple. They were some characters for sure they were likes him. Some texas characters for

we show up me and another body who lived in the middle of nowhere. We show up at like seven o clock in the morning and they would just basically have a punch list of stuff, the do and the ladys name, who was the wife and their poverty in their say, late fifties, but they were haggard. They were, they were looking little bit older she'd come to the door every single morning in a night shift with a coors light in her right hand and a cigarette in her left hand at seven o clock and she would give us the punch list of of stuff to do lot of it was made in fences cleaning out the born at the time they had metal fences and we had to go by, unlike scrape all the rust off the metal fences and then just repay them all one day

if there wasn't a whole lot to do out on the ranch. So she wanted us to to do some work around the property. She wanted us to go to her like kind of perimeter guard and around the house, pull up a bunch of weeds and do some landscaping for us, and she gave us a tour to make sure that she knew we knew what she wanted us to to pull out like what was a weed and what wasn't a wheat and we get to this one particular bush and it looks a whole lot like a marijuana plant, and she sees myself and my other high school age body just kind of staring at this marijuana plant and she's. Like oh it's. It's called the texas annex I know it looks like marijuana, but it's definitely not marijuana one hundred percent marijuana that she was grown out there for her little personal stash, her husband's little personal stash well, just whatever she needed basically done that morning. Idiots

in the middle of nowhere, so it wasn't like anyone was flying a helicopter over trying to find her little one little he had going on yeah. She was out there giving us stuff to do Who did that for part of a summer and then realised this bobby easier? out there than than ranch handing so I've. A waiter in our town, at a restaurant, called the cotton patch couple years and that was here almost there, ass down from my older sister, who worked there for a while. I was like alright can go there and get some tips. I can make some good money, so I work there. For probably to two and a half years and then right across the street from the cotton patch there was a record store called music man. And it was you know, maybe twice the size of this studio right here- was not a very big store I went over there and interviewed for a job in that guided manage the place, was a character ganem rick He was hispanic, but he was also, I guess, traditional jus, but he

spandex, they didn't have like it wasn't his background. He converted to judaism. He everywhere he had a became. He would wear like the yamaha everywhere kind of like the due from conk food this kind of roman about the house. Of course I cannot, but he was cool. You super laid back. He like music, and you know he offered me a job, and I worked there, probably already up until my son. New year, and I ended up manage in that place. Interest- We enough. He put me aside one day, and I think I was probably eighteen years all pull me aside to me outside and told me: he had a alcohol problem which was like what a shock to me whatsoever. He came in reeking of vodka. Most

the days that we were there and he asked me if I would drive him of the dallas and check him into this rehab facility that he had been spoken out. So Rick's cool, dude happy to help him out. So I drove him up. There dropped him off and he did not own the music man. He was the manager of the music man and there was a guy, up in Dallas texas, which was about an hour north of us like big city and he the guy that on the music man- and I don't even think I knew his name at the time, but in my mind I'm thinkin like this mogul that lives in dallas. You know, all these businesses in the music man is one of his soul. Find his contact information in some records at the store, and I just call him up to let him know what's going on, because rick is the only reason this business stays open, he's there from like eight o clock in the morning until eight at night, when they shut down so without rick, there is music man is I'm still in high school, the other employees, a buddy of mine from high school, so

I was a summertime, so I call this guy up and in my mind on my comment, to make a plea to freakin run the music man come taken over the music man, basically globally, don't make time. So I call this guy up and I'm ok. Here's the deal I just hate took rig up to this. Facility up in dallas checked him into rehab, he's out of the picture and there's a pause on the other end, and this guy goes well. I guess that means you know we gotta, we gotta shut, shut stuff down, I said: hey, maybe but I've been workin here now for two and a half years, I know how this entire business functions. You know I can manage it for you if you want, if you want that to be the case, because it was summer time, so I had basically three months or I could manage display. And give him time to find someone else to step in when I went off to a college and theirs

long pause on the other end. Then his ex, so you you're, confident you can run into MIKE. Absolutely it's not a big. I mean it's there's like three hundred records in the store. Maybe like it's not a complex operation. I was like I can. I got this, so I talk them into it and I'm like alright poised to make my move, because at the time I was making five twenty five an hour as an employee there, minimum wage, in texas, so he I convince him. He says alright, let's, let's go it's yours for the summer and then you know I'll try to find someone else to come in and run it. When you go off to college- and I said hey, I think, because I'm taken on all this extra responsibility, I've got to run inventory. I've got to run the the books. I've got to do all the bank drop offs. All this stuff is on me. Now I think I need a race, is a pause on the other hand, and he says you're right, you're right, you deserve raise so now my I just it is like the art of your right here. I just took this place over these places. Now mine, I'm gonna, make making

good money, I can buy new car. What I forgot was to actually talk about. What that raise would look like. I didn't, throw now route, he purposely did not throw number out as well. So I get my next page. I can I got to a whopping twenty five yeah in the old paycheck, so I went from five twenty five to five. Fifty for managing that place. The stewed who shops at music man with a city twenty or account of twenty thousand people characters how many right words. Are you sell it on rich day. Maybe like four Other lobbies by now rise cities, tapes, a lotta tape, still would come through his course again, like there's you know, there's a lot of vehicle still with with tape players in him. So we saw some tapes we I bought some cds. But it was not. We were not move in a hole,

whereas this is an area with the biggest best selling record underground rat was the best Ellen record for us, so we were in between dallas and use than in houston, had a big rap, seen so underground kings, who want a different bands there groups. I guess it unless you grew up in that. Access area, you'd have no idea, probably who these people were, but they were a big deal for us so what came in odds are they were walking out with some type of spruced in was the year others yon raw, that it fell on her spruced and wrap, so that was our biggest seller, Every now and then you know a ban would really know, a metal ban would release something. New corn would come out with a new album and you'd cell ten fifteen of those, but it was almost always kind. The Houston underground, rap game. Ok and what were you enter from years of metal? So why are you in the music I loved? The music was for me it was a thing. The idea, when guitar, when I was younger again didn't really

ply myself that much to it, but I enjoyed pickin. It been playing around with it. My dad was kind of all school classic rock tat guy. You know Belinda the beatles some applin, some pink floyd beach, we saw in randomly. So we grew up kind of on a blend of that and my mom loved, like nineteen eighties christian music, oh yeah carmen. For again China think not all have one common com dude a dude, he wild videos back in the day day, he was like, like gunslingers against satan, so it was a bland than we have it in the car it was, it was my mom's suburban. It was gonna, be amy grant requirement or something like tat, and we hope to my dad was probably gonna, be the classic rock station. You known some zepplin stuff like that. So in a crazy that, like you, can still get in the car today and just listen, applin yeah, like rising like radio stations, are playing as the problem

well for the remainder of eternity, which is not something you can say about a lot of the music. Let's get made right now for sure, yeah yeah. I know weird realisation? So when I was in, I guess it was probably like eighth grade if I dunno what it's like for you, but for me, every single, like school dance that we went to, which started in seventh grade eighth grade, and then we were to high school that had ninth tenth, eleventh twelfth grade. We every dance. I ever went to. Stairway to him was the last song of the night. Her right, yeah every single day as I've ever been to in my life as a as a human cause. I've you only! You know you don't go to dances. You have to graduate high school that every single one who's stairway to Heaven, and this is like nineteen, eighty four nineteen, eighty five through eighty nine so let's zapping was around here in nineteen eighty right so This is like for five years old and I thought

Of it seem like when I was a kid, it seem like those albums world ancient it was that we call the classic rock, it was called classic rock, even though you know this. What what there. Were him coloma his empty to something like this? Maybe nineteen seventy three so It was only ten years old will be ten years old. So like when my son was drawing up. He was listening to metallica, but mattel, go was nineteen, eighty two, so sons grown up in twenty twenty, so its forty years old we're gears all course metallica sheltering god bless him, but weird, how the music for me when I was what at twelve years old thirteen years old, it seemed like that music was classic and old, but it was only ten years old yeah. So it's a totally different world yeah there's a in zeppelins always gonna, be there metallica, always gonna, be there. I think at least their old stuff is always going

there is little better fiscal shot. There is there. Corsicana there was not a lot of led zeppelin getting played at the school dances. There was a whole lot of garth Brooks george strait, that type of stuff. So okay and I found metal in high school because some of my buddies were listening to it, and that was all I listened to from there on out. Until probably opportunity into the seal teams. When I opened up my horizons a little bit, but it was all or school metallica may I say old: it wasn't. I wasn't at all from either when I was going through high school mega death. It's like that in my kids. Listen to the same thing, my kids. Listen to that stuff. Now I'll catch, my oldest son ronan up in the garage every now and then in our barn or hang out barn, if you will our family born, we have our gym and stuff in there and he ll break one of my guitars out and he's just threatened. Metallic and stuff

to my wife, chagrin, that's what they want to listen to. Metallica may death and I try to convince her look if you is the music loud yes is loud. Is it fast? Yes, it's fast. If you listen to the lyrics, there's nothing wrong, good massachusetts, those lyrics! It's all kids dealing with stuff, it's all self, about war, it's all people. Work through props spirit and do the best possible lady s, yeah yeah got a cdc back and black eighteen, eighty, some nine years old and I was like oh but then again, plaques apathy, and then I was like ok now I m We stand the world, yet that's the that's! My oldest son go to a guitar right. Now is iron man in old black sat with these figures. I can't go wrong when europe, when you that age and you got stuff, I'm probably every teenage boys,

through some stuff, but for for me about the time when I found all that stuff, my parents had split bates put up a while before but like the divorce was official right then so I was angry frustrated all those things that you know what a young kid with by very self centric world You is probably going through, unlike their music, just spoke to me for the first time, I was listening stuff around like high. It's like it's ok to be frustrated about stuff It's ok to be angry about different self, in your listen into these guys, just poor, all their personal, buried his into an you. Ok, I can relate I can reassure you that it has to be also testosterone right. For short, like your fifteen years old sixteen years old, you got testosterone coming out, you're, freaking, eyeballs and like when there such a thing as roy rage right for a reason like but go on steroids and they get like angry. So when you're fifteen

of course, you're going to be freed. It specifically you off your ass around so there Luckily I mean if you lie get metallica like how those metallica- they were like vat age win, when their anxiety about eighteen, eighteen years old, when the first sounds come out and say that we are dealing with all of all of those things all the. Thanks and that's why it will always be around because you always have young men going through those exact same thing. Things are not only is the music in sight, well, orchestrated and put together, but the lyrics young men young american men are always going to hear that in their always gonna be able to resonate with it. You see this land I remember the first time I heard black sabbath I was like oh, this is, what I thought this is what I was thinking. You really like especially you compared to some of the other junk tat was out there in the world. Toya like theirs

junk music out their popular music, I dunno I was there. It was stuck on some radio station. It was just playing these ballads like the sort of metal rock ballads they're disgusting. There are very disgusting salt. You're, now fifteen sixty your parents is put up your freedom working in this record store for five twenty five and twenty five and albert and you get a raised I've already five. Fifty five fifteen now cannot things are looking to you have a car. Did you buy a car? I did, would you buy? So I can't you ever saw this car but might well. My first car was without the parents. Suburban display recombine, eighteen, eighty nine glaucoma. We greens suburban how that my dad bought off a lot, and he got a great deal on it as it was legitimately. Come all the green thing. It was like the foreign service tree vehicle. However, and to make it look better. He put a big gray stripe right down, love like somehow that was gonna. The

I saw so I drove at around as I was saving my cache up and then we, went to swap meet up at the ball park in arlington in dallas and this was back in the day before muscle cars were actual nominally expensive right and I drove off a lot in a nineteen. Seventy seville super support for a six- graham, oh, my god, midnight blue white racing stripes now you're talking about the classroom, fjord metallica. Now I've got no four, fifty four sitting there and it was. I was a kid always in a car It's always in a most cars, and I was just fortunate enough to live in a place in a time were a young man who was willing to do a little bit of work could afford something like that. It got probably eight miles to the gallon, but fuel in texas was like ninety seven cents back then so that's what I had until college and then I will forever kick

myself, but I sold it when I went to college because you're always tinkering with old with old cars. There's always something that you gotta fix on him, and I was thinking I need a little bit more reliable transportation and I sold it and then I sold it for more than I paid were there, but would you get to replace it? I got a year with. How did I get think I have, in all the land rover like a nineteen. Ninety five wasn't at all. I was told us only two thousand, once it was it's probably a six year old landrover which talking about things I need to be fixed all the time yeah. I think I fixed all the time, so it wasn't necessarily the best the best swap, but you know I was sixteen years old driving this around no, no her condition: didn't care loud exhaust, just just crushing life that point basically. So when did you find out about the teams, or so I was probably either fourteen or fifteen years old

and I was avid reader grown up. I read all the time always had books. In my hand, you name it. I was reading it and we spend a ton of time at the library and poor that was Paul. You, my mom, was a teacher so we were always at the library. My mom authorities rounded reach unanimity that yeah If my dad was a teacher too, I still didn't read it, I loved it. I would get lost in all these different books and it could be. I lived out in the middle of nowhere too, and there just wasn't a whole lot of stuff to do besides play in the woods and read so I was always reading these adventure novels and whatnot and pretending to be, though I'd read a book and then I'd go out in the woods and produce basically pretend to be one of those. Those characters when I was young, but we ve been a bunch of time in the course of public library, and I was in the military history section, and this was before you know- pre nine eleven. This was like nineteen. Ninety four five may be something like that.

Been ninety. Ninety six, there was not a lot of information out there about the seal teams, and I stumbled across this book called hunters and shooters Was this oral history of seals in vietnam- and I read It- and I was hooked like instantaneously- knew that's what I wanted to do with the rest of my life was like. I can get paid to do this. I can actually go and make a living out of jumping out of airplanes and running around in the jungle and diving and doing all these things that you know, probably ever a man dreams about when they're when they're little. So it was a huge turning point in my life because up until then, I was not very disciplined about a whole lot of things, and it was very evident that, if that's something that I wanted to do, it was going to take every single thing that I had. I had a channel all my energy, into that, so everything from their own out every decision I made basically became

the decision was. Is this going to help me get into the seal teams? And if the answer was no, then I didn't do it so got serious about workin out got serious about eating. I think my parents thought I was insane and full of it, like my parents, who grew up watching a very undisciplined young man who, like you know, I wasn't horrible like I was a good kid But I was in the hardest: work are grown up. We lived on a farm, we had horses, we had emu, we'd, all kinds of random crap on the farm I was always complaining about work and then just whatever it was about reading that book, it was just like a switch that went off in like I was very focused and all the sudden I'm working out on my own, I'm studying, because I want to get good grades so that I can get into the community cause. I dunno, if that matter or not, but I'm like it's gotta help. You know if I've got straight a's, it looks good, so it was a big turning point for me. It's a weird realisation when you are running around in the woods playing army

and you realize you can actually do that. Literally. My first thought was I've been doing this, my entire life, and now this is something that I can get paid to do or go on these crazy mit, and this is south of vietnam. I mean this. This is insane stuff, I was reading and it just resonated- and I was like, to do this. I have to be a part of this community. I leased out to see if I can, if I can make it I was going to non yeah that that was. Where'd they go into now my figure there was still obstacle man there is. I might have reappeared over usenet my eyes, like my will be rescuing them. I just gotta make people that kind of what I've snake who get one. I've already got the planet. Ninety ninety, let's roll so you graduate high school. Then now you know you're focused on like I'm going to be a frogman of yes, you and we you go to college The texas ain't it: why can we just in enlist? So we back and forth

whether to enlist the knot and my parents played a big role in me. Not enlisting and they told me was it was a shock to them that I wanted to do this. You might not necessarily a big! No. Terry family. My mom side has some service, like my parents, to serve anything like that, and I think they were again having a hard time wrap in their mind around the fact that, like I was actually capable of doing something like this, so I'd Bossi, you mean they doubted I think so too, was literally nobody, but I think I thought I was serious I never thought that I was going to make it through and I can't blame them. If you looked at, you know my life up until then it was kind of the antithesis of what you needed to do to actually make it through a program like that so in their minds. I think it was more of a delay tactic like how do we get him to realize he's not meant to do this. How do we get

and to realize that there's other things in life that he can do yeah, let's let him ruminate on this for a little bit. So they were talking to me about college and just said: look if you still want to you can enlist after college too, but we want you to get your degree first. That is a tactic for sure by the way get your kid, go to college. They meet a girl, they do as they get a job offer. You keep him out of the military. Yes, I've seen some people execute on that plan. I'd be willing to bet, because I never actually asked them, but I'd be willing to bet that was their tactic was hey. Get him into college, he's going to figure some other stuff out, even if he doesn't, and he still wants to do it now. He's got a degree if he doesn't make it or just doesn't like it he's got something he can fall back on, so they were. Probably thinking get him to college he'll have a good time, he'll, loose, focus and he'll know find some other path find a girl settle down, but I'd be to them. I was the lame, is college student of all time.

Is it hard to get into texas? You went to texas, Texas am, and is it hard to get in there? I don't I don't gets necessarily mean it's not harvard, let's be honest but you used to have good grades? You still have to contribute their type a thing, so I think they at the time state school, but there still decently selective. I think you had to be more or less in the top ten percent of your class at the time to make it through. Sir, you were. I was you see I was around. You know, probably like the ten percent began point yeah yeah. I was now businesses slid right in underneath there, but I rose to go there because there was the core cadets is there, and there is a group inside the core of cadets that were just focused on getting people prepared for selection made for butts further

the seal training pipeline and to me cause like this is a great resource. I can go down there. I can work out with these guys. I can better myself I'll, prepare it'll help me be more prepared. Basically, so I went down there. I was not in the corps of cadets and I just worked out with these guys, and I mean they were. I thought I was in good shape. You know I was run in I put in like three miles. I would do some calisthenics and stuff, and I thought I was in good shape and then day one run in with these guys. It was just like a nuclear bomb went off. It was the worst experience of my life. These guys were all just freaks. These guys were actually in shape is what it was. These were actual runners. You know they were putting in like eighteen minute three mile times which to me was like an a

annabelle at the time. Basically. So it was a very good thing for me to choose to go there because it reframed my perspective on my own personal training. So you know my day in college, consisted of I would be up at four twenty four twenty five at the latest. I'd get a cup of coffee and then I'd have to drive to campus, because for forty five we would be starting a pt and then we would pt until about six. Thirty, then we'd hit the chow hall and then my classes didn't start till eight. So I would go to our gym and I would get another workout in cause when you're nineteen twenty years old you can do stuff like scouts, is not going to break you down. Basically so we'd pt. For about an hour and a half together I'd eat, I go pt some and then we would go to class and then after class. I would go to my my job, which was, I was working in the school system as a an after school kind of counselor for an underprivileged school that was nearby texas, a and m.

So I go do that until five, thirty six o clock at night. I come home, eat dinner, study for a couple hours and then I'd be asleep by Bobby eight thirty, nine o clock. I was d lameness, college student of all time I can you know maybe three parties I ever went to because my roommates were going and I just didn't enjoy them because I'm in the back of my mind, I was just very concerned about getting in trouble if I get in trouble- and I want to be an officer and get picked up for that program. If I get you know, arrested or in a fight or something like that, everything that I've worked for is over with so it was just wake up, pt school sleep, then you start to get it in really good shape, I got in very, very good shape very good shape better than some of those guys at certain things. I was a little bit bigger than so them. So when it came to light calisthenics. I was better at than them, but when it came, running. I was always tell, and so we have a three mile time run at the end of each semester. Just attract our progress, and it was a three mile

but it wasn't upside one mile do that you would run three times, but it wasn't a good actual test of your three mile tom, because half of the loop was uphill so you'd you know run down hill baseline, the last half would be up hill and ran an eighteen twenty and I was the slowest god only forty five seconds we had guys that were put in sixteen forty fives. They were just free. And we were swim and all the time these guys we're all trying to go to boats are trying to go to boats are trying to go to boats. What did you study in college speech, communications for no other reason than I thought it would be easy and get me out college, quick. I also thought if I was going to be an officer, I probably needed the ability to actually speak in front of people, and I thought, in the back of my mind like this, will probably help me my public speaking skills. What I didn't realize you didn't speak at all. It wishes all paper riding it's like the worst major. I possibly could have in outside of maybe a dedicated like engineering course.

Every semester each course that I was taking had like a thirty page paper that was attached to that course. Its calls each communication communication skill basically developed people that wanted to go and be like pr, reps and stuff, which I didn't know any of that, like I'm picking this out of a catalog of what I thought would be the easiest major for me so that I could just focus on pitying in being ready for the ceilings. So you stop at you. Gotta pull your packaging right yet took to become a seal. Did you go to the Did you go to the many boats thing I did not, so they actually stop that a write about time when I should have been able to go, and I'm not sad that that happened, because when I got there and then I started to actually later on in my career when I was running one of the phases of of selection, what I found out was many, but never really helped anybody, but it definitely could hurt people. So, if you and many buzz, and you did well the message that I was told was ere. It kind of helps not really, but

you came to many buzz and you didn't do well. You didn't perform like you're done you're over with so I didn't have the opportunity to go. I don't even have the opportunity to talk to a board or anything like that. I just put together a package. I send it in and it got examined by some board somewhere, probably militant tennis ear. Maybe in court otto I don't know where and then they kind of decided your fate from their. So no even use. You didn't even in review. No no letter recommendation for anybody. Let a recommendation for though we had a couple of guys that were animal lomna team guns, tin, guys here a cave, remember their names anymore, yeah, but like there was a network, basically have an m guys at a graduated that were willing to help out. So they just talking on the phone for a few minutes and then wrote me a pretty nice. Regulator, but that was really yet. I did spend time with those people or anything, and this is what two thousand and seventeen

new thousands, five time frames, and I was starting to put the package or so at this time, there's so many people applying beyond that. I mean there's, like probably let you say, I think the number would probably be around one thousand. I would imagine probably around one thousand people would be applying and it would be like thirty slots yep. Told, is that lobby thirty from the naval academy. It probably be a little bit more than thirty total, but for o c s officer canada's school, which was the programme I would have to go through because I didn't go the naval academy. I wasn't in the core of cadets, so I think the number was around. Like fifteen people got selected from the hooker from the whole country and you were one of em. I was it. You have to write an essay. I didn't have to write an essay. I had a righteous. Bit little by about why I wanted to be what did you say programme just pay, I wonder to serve, I wanted the lead. I wanted to give back pretty much all the generic things that probably wanted here. There was nothing tat made. You stand out. I think my peters

wars probably made me well good, where your pt scores are pretty good. They were pretty good. How many pull ups did you do? I did like thirty two pull ups. I did one hundred and forty seven pushups, that's friggin led yeah idea It was your run from mile and a half a mile and a half run was not super impressive, but it was. You know it was competitive. It was probably a ride at around eight. Fifty nine, I think my swim was good. I was goods now. Actually it was a horrible swimmer was good at sight stroke. All I did was size, strokes and my swim time was phenomenal for not being someone who grew up swimming. So I think my pity scores we agreed in college. Gonna grades were good, you know again, I wasn't taken engineering class. Then you have to take, I think, I took like some kind of a test for oh see us. I can get it cs. I dont think I took a test the outer attitude test. Nearly I did. I took a test called the officer aptitude test rush that thing what was on it?

it was mechanical stuff. Ok, it was planes coming at you and going away from you and where will is this plain coming toward you're going to have to mechanic? I like gears, which way is this thing going a bunch of math problems, a bunch of english stuff yeah and I like crush that that does sound familiar that doesn't actually I'm actually members sitting in the recruiters office in college station doing that exam did well on it. You get picked up by some. That's it's hard to get picked up for that programme. I was there. I was amazed at the best aim: a life. When I got that letter and I picked up So you get pick a proper did. You have to wait like a year, something yes, I was that I had an injury, so I tore my shoulder. When I was in early college years, and then I have a labour terrorists or nothing do nothing to traumatic, but I had to have it repaired and they took forever declare that through a miracle board and I'm arms super frustrated the time because in my mind and like I have delayed, I didn't enlist,

I delayed to go to college. I've been training, I'm ready to roll. I thought I was going to get picked up and then, like the day, I graduated fricking go in my mind, that's what was gonna happen and I it was about a year almost a year and a half before they cleared me of all that stuff, and it was exceptionally frustrating for me for one because they have all my pt scores like it's clearly, not a debilitating injury whatsoever. Like I crushed the pt, portion of it. So I'm I'm clearly physically able to do this. Job so was probably a blend of how long it actually takes people to clear those medical boards. I doubt a doctor sat there and looked at my paperwork for a year and a half. It probably took him a year and a half to get to my paypal work in the giant stack of paperwork that he had to work through so it was frustrating I move back to my home town. I taught actually fur

a year in our school system as my job and then just kind of typical navy. You know wait, wait, wait, wait, wait and then all of a sudden a call comes, it says: hey you are leaving in two weeks. Basically, for for us here. So I was very frustrated that I had to wait that long, but in a grandson the things it was probably the best they could have happened to me because you look at the trajectory of what it put me on. As far as the departments that I got to go on the people I got to work for and why If I met my wife because of this time line all of those things played out because of this, I wouldn't change one thing about it, our idea, you launched Elsie s you gotta see ass, it was friggin miserable. I was I wanted to be the best I possibly could be so I I drove to OSI S from Texas was up in rhode, island. That's like an eighteen or nineteen hour drive and the whole drive. I

reviewing all the materials they told us to come prepared. You know all of europe the sailors read all of those things that you are going to have to recite and I get there and at the time I've got this big. You know forward after fifty king ranch DE saw. I've got a cowboy boots on like going to check into this place and I'm just getting the once over from all of these cadets, better are kind of running the show days, so I get there. You know they're being supercool that oh yeah man in all its great blah blah blah and then they take me into this hallway and that's when you know the jiggers up has one that's when you're there's, basically so these guys combustion out these upper class, mainly through yellow scream and me and stuff into me, and besides, this is a friggin joke do like this is- crazy to me that this distressing people out but like there was a couple of guys with me in a company girls with me, and they were freaked out by this, but previous life experiences and what not like I've been yelled at plenty of time. So I wasn't that big of a deal

process of oh she s, not a huge fan of it, but I wouldn't change anything because I that my drill instructor again in yak of only gunnery sergeant yak, of only like the classic marine georgia under the friggin man, I learned so much from their guy from a leadership perspective, but he all I knew what I wanted to do and he took special interest in me, because I wanted to go and do this combat m o s, which is what all marines care about. Basically, so he gave me a lot of additional privileges that other people going through did not get cycle. What I spent time in his office tat. I was the other key made me the class president. Basically so it first I was really annoyed by that, because I thought that meant that I would not have time to pity, but is really putting me. That position so that he could have extra access with me and give me the things that I basically needed like extra time so.

Did I pay the man for being the class president when the class screwed up yeah all all the time, but it also meant that we got to spend a lot of time together. So I'd go to his office and he would just talk to me stuff, we sat down. We watch ban brothers together and he was walking me through, like all these different leadership. Lessons learned from ban abroad He was exceptionally hard on me like he was not here. He, me too, a very high standard and if a class screwed up, I paid the man for it big time, but by the end of it, You know I was when I was the senior class on deck. If you will, I was the regiment commander, so I was a guy running that basically all of us. Yes- and you know after that, It was over me him in another couple of the marine gunnysack we go out in town and have a drink and get dinner in Oh, you got superstar winners that are there that are these gunnery sergeant in there. Just teaching me just teach him he saw from that perspective african loved it

but from the day to day perspective was miserable. You know you're you're using all these their teaching all these skills that in the seal teams, you're just never gonna use like you're mobility, border navigation, words that flying backwards yeah, I'm not good at math, so that stuff to me those little boys must have kicked my butt. I the mobile take my butt and then the d, the tests that you have to go through to get him like the physical test, I'm not flexible and there's this weird dynamic, aussi s way. Are some of the gunnery sergeant really like each other and they have like a crew and then other gunnery sergeants, don't like this crew and they look for the guys and gals that this crew likes and they try to harass him and like kick him out. So I was not flexible. So we're doing this like toe touching test, and I couldn't frickin touch. My toes and I was about to get booted out of programme because I couldn't touch my toes day and yet came over and basically say me for

experience. So put me in your bag illegality down the literally got me down so mobile be boards and physical mobility, where my two biggest weaknesses in enow cs but overall the x. Periods of getting to learn from him was awesome in your. I met to my best an arrow cbs news to other guys were three other guys. We're gonna go through the same programme, so we were all either in the same class more within one class at each other, so we all moved out to corn otto together and renewed a place together as to go through bud. So from that perspective it was great. From a day to day how associates prospectively wishes, thirteen weeks of being miserable, not eating enough food getting out of shape compared to the shape I went into it folding underwear, folding under ironing underwear, all of the things that are going to make you very, I guess a good sailor,

I say you graduate I now you're out you, you go the growth Well, the few your buddies to go out to bud's roll through my buddies go out to bud's, one of them a buddy sam's at coronado kid water, polo polo player built like a refrigerator just total stud, but he grew up in Coronado. And so you he knew all the lay of the land. So he basically picked a good place for us to live down therein in the case tat, yeah yeah and had we actually wanted from an older team, guys, captain in the navy who his family was friends with so we live. There I think I know you're talking to me. I lived there and with training, and it was just the best time it possibly could be an one of my bodies who was going through training james, his wife is a tutorial. Indian, so she was like our dear mother likes. You

Is there living with us olympian in what eight hundred meter runner, okay, total, total animal just so fast and I went on a couple- runs with her and it was just like the most embarrassing thing of all because she be haven't a conversation with me and I can't even brief, but I can't I'm like second wind and she's just conversational pace. Basically, but she was there in the house with us, so she grew up the training centre during the days and press for the friggin olympics and then we'll go to buds and diskette are taken. And basically network. How is your hours in short, a, but it was awesome. So I was nervous at first because I've put so much time and energy into preparing, this and I was nervous about how are we going to stack up against everybody else? That was there because you don't everyone in my mind, did the exact same things to prepare everyone, you know logged thousands of ours of running and swim

yeah cause. You basically spent four years at texas, a am preparing to go about everything a morning doing that every single morning preparing for or but that's good preparation, it was outstanding in per annum, time to are also doing different stuff for, like water comparability things that you probably actually shouldn't do without supervision but we were doing other things like drowned, proving and stuff that got you more common Well in the waters, it was outstanding, outstanding, prep, but in my mind I it's very nervous about how I was going to stack up with everybody else, and I just fine. You know I was up there at the top with a lot of things, we're never going to be the fastest runner. I never fell out of a run. Never, but I was never going to be the top of the pack like we do a four mile time run and I would be by the time we would run back through the rock passage. I would just be getting passed, left and right yeah this gas. That is where I would start. This is another crazy thing about the guys at an as they didn't their running style was

the how I learned to run was. They will just take off top speed, ripen where's got briefing witches straight up. Just go that will be the pace. They would keep the entire time. So I would get a big led taking off and I don't think I got gas coming back. It was just that nobody else was actually trying that hard. All the halfway mark and then the guys that were really freak runners would just start to put on you know the five minute pace and they would just fly passenger. Yeah was when you were going through buds. Are you looking at? Was there studs that you will? You know everyone talks about the stud that quit right? Oh yeah, We idea have some of those for sure there was a kind of a usual characters and if you've went through budge, you know what I mean by the usual characters of the guys that you think are just going to crush it one because they look like it into because they tell you they're just going to crush it and then eventually those guys just go away. But you had in a d one athletes that came through there and washed out. You had these guys that were second and third offenders. Trying to

through the programme that new everything there was to know about buds and they would wash out so there was dead Finally, you know people that you wouldn't im up on day. One and say hey come and pick who's going to make it, and probably most people would pick the guys that washed out and would be my guess as pretty wild. Isn't it yeah? it's very while now there also with some logic, athletes did just fine Gael. Isn't it wrestlers for whatever reason crush it the reason is there just used to being miserable there all the time like if you're wrestler your life is just this. Your practice are miserable you're, starting

herself, all the time you know, you're pushing yourself super hard and bodies is just a case study of. Can you be miserable for seven months and some of those athletes. I think what it was. Is there very use to doing everything right, getting everything right and then, when they fail in masses with em they're not used to it and they get on this kind of downward spiral? So a lot of guys washed out before how we kicked off and then during how weak? a lot of those other big strapping young lads were were not there and in some other little guys, who are just tough, nails these relations tenacious since they're, not gonna friggin quit were there was like how weak like for you anybody you. How do you say this without seamen like you know, canada of a egomaniac, but it really The thought of how weak was much worse to me than how weak once we started and we got going

was tough. It was a hard you have done in my life, but I get advantage. I had was. I was an officer, so I'm not necessarily word about my own individual performance, I'm worried about my boats, performance and, if, if, if I pass one, but my team does a pass run. I still get friggin beat for it. So because I was more focused on the guys- and I wasn't is focused on my own personal misery, I think it made a little bit more bearable for me. The thing that I hated, the most about buds was the and how we can just you just called the entire time. Someone has your taxes. How will we not walk or water there's an exist? I would go to our lakes. Texas, the water tat, would be like ninety one degrees, so broad, they can also use the water of main. No. I was servant in maine in the winter time I gotta

in California. I was like whoa. This is easy, yeah who's, this new factor; no, it was. If you said you can do a log pt or you can sit in the ocean for surf torture. I would do the log bt every single time. Most people would not say that most. I asked MR had like no opinion of things. I was I was sort of just an automaton of like hey. This is what we're doing I kind of like. Well, let's go do it. I dunno. I was kind of having a good time and for me how weak was the easiest part It couldn't fail, yeah there was, however, groggy there's no standard. They just keep going. Is this data to keep going, which I'm good at it? Like I'm real good at that, like oh of the formal time, braun was a card for me, those time, swims, where they were hard for me, but also was heard from everything else was like I'm fighting the clock, but how we goes. I owe you all I can't fail this boats on head, carried down to freaking ibm backer. Go cool I

and was doing less go. The of the us of course in all that stuff. I was good at all of those things, but also, of course, I I always just getting beat for even I was like the second best in my class at the obstacle course, the the the guy that was the best name's mike he was a total stud. He was the guy that made buzz, look easy, basically a total stud, but because we were number one and number two for that particular evolution what are the instructors always want to do face off between Ike might destroy me, never single time. I get the in less he long, darted off of the slow for life and broke something like there was no chance. I had and beating MIKE so we'd finnish and I would get beat because I lost to me basically that obstacle course is freaking awesome. It's amazing. It is freaking, awesome yeah. It is like a giant adult playground, yeah yeah his time going through there. I think the best I ever did was like six twenty and he was consistently poor.

Up like five thirties dude, a guy. My class was getting like eight minute, eight minute, eight minute, whatever, if all through buds we're dead. Like our last obstacle course any breaks out like a five and the instructors and look so about with a chuckle crazy due to giving I'll do it again. He's like open He does again it gets. I call for for your son, you, like this You just sandbagging for six months abuts december. Well, I don't know that I was sandbagging, but I'd never put up a six thirty before and then one of the instructor said he to the whole class. If you don't get underneath eight minutes, you're getting wet and sandy before the next evolution like we don't care that its impact,

in grade like you're you're getting me basically, so I always was around that eight minute mark. So I was like wow. I really got to freaking turn it on and that's what I ran. You know a six, forty five or something, and then from there on out. I was like. Oh, I can, I can go faster basically, but mike was always just smoke in me and I pulled him aside one day and I asked him as a human hour. You like what's your secret man like what are you doing differently and he wasn't trying to be a prick about or anything, but he just said hey. I don't actually even try until I get to the slide for life, and then I will we just conserve energy and then put it on and I'm like bro what I'm one hundred percent from the uneven bars. You have. The parallel bars like that. If I wasn't one hundred per cent from there, I'd be back at like eight minutes, but his secret was he was in such good shape. He would not say bag, but he would just jogged first piece and then save himself for the the part where most guys gas out and then he would just pour it on

I remember having to run it wet and sandy, and then all are aware classes running a wet and sandy I was thinking That's one of the times this thing- and this is not safe he darted out everything society slippery out like this doesn't seem safe. But I guess that's what we're here once did: let's go, there was an evolution and how weak we carry our boat. The smugglers like job, I not say, forget that boat out to the everyday life of his jacket earthquake the slide for life where in the obstacle where's where's, that when our away I and it's a tower that you have declined it was already levels and by the time you get there like you're you're, tired, so this is where you really more distinctly. Your for arms are tired. You worms are kind of smokers. All hanging on to stuff is all ropes and climbing, and so your your forearms are kind of smoke when you get there so jeremy tone and I get little bits and pieces of course. Some experience,

jeremy told me that the so called was going through any kept jamming himself up failing or whatever, and he was like a because his technique, He kept like spending is arms like china like the immediate. All my life needs more is to strike the edges. He's a bread is keep your arms straight. And you won't burn out your arms cause. You keep feeling on. That part is like I got some role. I dunno the health is hard. So when you come down this, you climb up. Three stories It is just a long rope that you slide down you're starting. It echoes from three stories to zero stories at your kind of hanging up in the beginning, you hang upside down and go Well, that's the slide for later your sliding down the rope butcher, but the rope is kind a loose, so it's kind of like difficult go to ensure fair arms can definitely smoke and people use the fall off the twenty five feet. Twenty four, mean falling twenty feet? Socks wait. What do they hit? The sand hit santa and now they have. They put it

under for awhile, and now they have like sand burma underneath this year not used to be logic is its motivator is without is like when the gym, when all the transition to the like soft ghana box john Instead of the allowance at all the liquor look restoring to try things that they shouldn't have tried rattling. Look, you don't have a thirty six cents box job with a metal box. You not try and because the recent elections there, if you fail so it's a little extra motivator, but that of course they had olympians. When I was running the third phase of train we're libyans come through because they might be training centres in san, diego and they couldn't make it. It was all the groups during their so specialised that you just have to be. You can't be an olympic swimmer and expect to go through that obstacle course and crush it. There there to sport, but again

this would fly through. I had a gymnast, I had a gymnast olympic alternate in my class oma and he would fly through it. He, unfortunately for him, wasn't good in the water and filmed some water evolution and didn't make it, but all eleven alternate in gymnastics and saying my going through. The of course was a joke. Leaving His legs was like literally nothing literally, nothing yeah, that was germany, challenges in boats besides the cold cause the big one day improving I was I was, doing very well, you know, pass all the evolution and why not until drown proofing- and I was very confident about drowned, proving until actually did drowned proofing, and then it was just like absolute chaos. Under water. It was the first time in my book experience where I was like this is this is sketchy like this might be. But you might not make my might like us. They can like you're. That was vastly different experience and what I was expecting went through or practice.

All the procedures. I was very comfortable in the water and then it was like. I opened her. So next day show up, and I managed to get it done the second day, but as most nervous I've ever been was. I was very concerned about failing again the second day, but what about pool comp and porkchop? Sorry did, I say trump recently said trump or for comp. Drowned, proving we practise it so much that it wasn't really that baby they put up was the one where it was lighter yeoman. This is a different experience, a very different experience than in my mind what we had to have to be. Yeah. I was talking to a kid: don't try to tell him that it was like hey. You need to prep for pool complex, it's really hard and he's kind of, like you know, I'm good in the water. This is no factor, and then he didn't make it the first time didn't make it the second and third time,

how him when he was done, and he was like I go- I tried to tell you that was hard yeah. He said nothing. You could have told me, it would have, would have explained what it was like like jack, there's, not much of buds that I don't remember pretty vividly. I don't remember anything not the first ball comprehended interests other than just being like a regular donate. Just may have absolute mayhem. Andy stop was the stricter to have cited as a whole yeah. You know Andy past. I want to I think he said it's either three or in the three years he was an instructor. He passed for people on the cop. What I was not one of those easily end, they earned it. I was underwater for probably six minutes and I get to the top and I'm just I don't even know where I am happy he's like you know, you failed, ok! Well, I wanted to get some pointers and I said: ok. Well, you know what you could you specific that could do better. He goes. It was so short that I don't care

what went wrong I swear. I wish we could have been just if they just gotta had a camera and a microphone on Andy for the three years that he was a second phase instructor. It would be the best tv show of all time especially from comedic perspective, has yeah yeah It was one of those things where, if you were in his line, you were trying to find a way to get out of his life. He was talking about it. He's like yeah yeah. He says you it was. You learn a lot, He was telling you about, like the different hand, positions that people would have these, like. You know, merle easily. I forget what was there to something like a when they start to curl? You big, o, he's about to bolt like he's done, and if it is, it know how much pressure to put on a more take off woman yeah, so any stuff gets on, this was the worst Five minutes in my life to that point in time for sure so, first base conveys did that they liked our class. We

lot of personality. No guys were hard workers, guys we're funny which buds instructors always like classes that can just kind of embrace it. And then we got the third phase and it was just they did not like our class. So third food for reason. Third phase for us, where were you really excited about their face, could like now I get to shoot I get to blow stuff up. I get to do all of these cool things I get to learn. Land warfare. Fair third phase for us was just like first phase seat to point out just be done, and now you on island where there are no eyeballs watching you, so we more time getting beat than we did actually shooting like we would go to the range we Bobby five minutes a shooting in somewhat screw something up and then we'd be down on this

so, do you, when you guys got cocky because they liked the instructors like you in first and second phase and you guys are kind of like hey? We got this and everyone loves us. It could be a part of it. The personalities that were in third base at the time, I think were have had a lot to say with that, and there was one chief specifically who ended up being out there. Almost the entire time supposed to be just. I think, one time he had a cover for another cell, so we stayed out there, but and then it just became the snowball thing. Like once the soap for those that don't know, there's different cells in third phase, so they rotate out, so the marksmanship cell will come out for the first two weeks and run the class for two eggs on this island called saint comedy island. Then they leave in the demo cell comes out whether marksmanship shell cell is giving upturn over to the demo cell of how the class is doing, and if the the turnover is these guys suck, then the snowball starts happened.

So it was in some ways worse than first face, because no, when was around to reign anything in and you almost over the mentality. As a third phase student, like their beatings, are always still to be, there embodies protect, you were supposed to be learning, things now. It was not so the case for other face class. You learn how to be hard again very go. So you graduate graduate from buds, which is not really a graduation they'll. Give you a piece of paper now literally a piece of paper or shake your hand on the grinder and send you along and after ask: you T, ask tee for officers at this point in time we got the what they call the officer role so that we could go to the junior officer, training course, which I think we were maybe the second or third class to actually go through that, because leif said, that thing up didn't know he didn't standard. Ok took it over, but yeah. This was now. What did the city in two thousand and eight two thousand eight bulgaria so wasted

in there for a while, because, but he did stand it up actually who stood up was admiral richards services like in way. Ok. This is like to thousand, but it wasn't what did was take it and turn it from my hey. This is how you write evils. This is how you write navy message. I remember well this priority for you to even have have experienced in the navy. Didn't know how to read in the message: not a right and evaluation. You don't do want a navy stuff, so they need, give some of that navy stuff two guys and that sort of what it started off with an list, like bringing in some guys that have been in combat and lay factually was like hey. We need to teach guy some leadership wild. Can we drew his generosity training courses? He did a great job of sort of pivoting that in setting up there, he acts as an all out rugged yeah, so He was there for, I think the first two weeks and then turned over with MIKE's a relative

took over, so we went through that. It was awesome, learn how, by two things, what was not awesome We had some time to kill in between when buds ended and when jobs he started, and I think it was because there was christmas fell but in that transition. We do not have the class before us only had, I think three or four officers in it that made it through. So they wanted to combine our two classes, so they needed to find something to fill a gap between our class ending and then, when the jobs, was supposed to start on the calendar and at the time there was a green berets, major who was gonna augmenting the jockey cell with mike's orally, and he convinced the powers that be that it would be a really good idea to send us to the queue course during that time frame. So we shipped out to camp mccall in February and went through three weeks.

I love the q course out there, which was which, how much of the q courses that sought to write post selection? It's now when they're doing the small unit tactics, ogre version of it so in some ways: awesome because you're getting taught, but he kind of saw this major kind of sold the chain of command on the fact that it was this portion of the queue course was more like a gentleman's course. You're gonna be learning. It is. Their selection is literally their selection, so we're out their digging foxholes at night camp mccall in February its you know twenty degrees outside Yogurt cool cool guy gear. You like your cotton, for it can be to use out there. Yet it was a unique experience, so We did that for three weeks was supposed to be the timeframe. I actually jacked my knee up on a rock one night and they had to send me back to get treated in san diego, so I was only out there. I think for a week and a half of that, but during that timeframe we learned about ambushes, we learned about layups, we learned

and good stuff. It was a crappy experience for sure from up from a standpoint of a guy who just graduated buds, and you like cool, that's now behind me and now it's time to start, learning how to actually be an operator and then get thrown right back into selection and not only selection but green, brace election were all the instructors are like. Let's see what these yeah see, these navy guys can off must, I think, We can offer them it's one percent, let's see what they're all about, but flip side of that was. We did learn. We did learn if you wanted to. If you took time and actually wanted to learn what they were telling us. Then it was very valuable, very died our rights, and now you get and would ask you to and you roll into still seventeen some rope. Wait until April to write it opportune, so they had just got back. When their deployment, like literally just got back so we roll man and I ended up in charlie platoon seal team seven and the potential

and the oh I see in there were awesome awesome to people that actually generally cared about mentoring, actually cared about developing self and the other squad commander in the other squad commander had a big leg up on me because he was prior enlisted. So he had a lot of good experience. Is a team three guy got him rob and just a freak athlete two guy. It's real easy to like real easy for guys to want to follow good personality good at everything he does, but we had people there that actually cared about investing in us, my His troop commander was Jack Karn, who sometimes troop commanders care about their squad commanders, and sometimes they don't and jack absolutely cared about us and we were on training trips. You know he paused aside talk was and then also just watching how we conducted himself as a troop commander being very aggressive in a good way going throughout. Try

meaning aggressively maneuvering for us to get opportunities overseas was really set. Opportune, offer success there. The others ass? My remember put in jail guess unfold, in italy for him or fortunately, depending how you look at it. I put him through as a platoon commander and then as a troop command yeah, so he was stoked yeah. We joke about that. A lot I we went through the our first block of training was land warfare which is the best place on the planet. Basically now in california, but I I was twenty five I might have just turned six. Some kind of in my prime on this in my own This young stood and we got through with land fair and my knees, right for like a solid two weeks, I member very distinctly going to church and, like you put them, you were down postman warfare and I need down like I wouldn't the jubilee do think I could get back afterwards, something here.

I'm looking at guys that have now done this. This is their eight land warfare block my how the hell with these guys still walking the apple. Was that turning was freaking. Awesome But what we wanted Oh man, with a big like c: do you lay warfare moron. You urban? What what what big Big lessons learnt from the leadership perspective yeah one of the things we just. Let me guys lemme guys go so I was the class. Oh I see from. I ask you class, but half way through the class they fired the oh. I see that was there and put me in charge, so I got the opportunity to run like a opportune, quote quota quote throughout sq teal in warfare, but we're all students were all learning stuff. So it's not like anybody has an advantage over anybody else.

So I was a little bit more hands on and very quickly into a platoon. You really realize that's not a solution for success. Shall we say one your guys are going to tell you back off and just let me do my thing, but just being comparable, making an initial call and then just letting them do what they do with you. And I was very fortunate. I was in the squad with the platoon chief that I was very fortunate that he I was making calls that he very easily could have just said. That's not your job, that's my job! Stop doing that, but he didn't do that. He let me make calls he let me learn. He did but as you go get in the way he was very interested in in teaching me and mentoring me. So big piece was just giving guys direction and then letting them go and do that and then you in decentralized man, centralized command would be a huge gap. Yeah central command would be a huge thing and,

the peace, which is the level of detail that goes into our planning, was very impressive. For me, I always liked that aspect of things I, like kind of noting out on the planning style of the planning phase, the operation, but again my only experience was sq t which your plans aren't super robust. So seeing the point, man disappear into his room and build routes where, like every single thing, was taken into account, see in your snipers, you know picking the best places to be on the battlefield based off the weapon systems. They are going to carry seeing your breaches prep the charges they need for that specific door and all those things it was like. Oh, the seal teams are everything that I was hoping that they would be so the level of detail that goes into the planning was awesome to see and again it wasn't one person doing that it was

everybody had their role. Everybody was contributing and then, at the end of the day you put all those pieces together. I bet that coming into the seal teams in like two thousand and five, two thousand and six two thousand and seven two thousand and eight two thousand and nine two thousand and ten, two thousand and eleven. Two thousand twelve like coming into if you're, showing up in the seal teams during that time frame, it was probably for all you guys it showed up at that time. It was probably like he up. This is what I signed up. I came in and nineteen ninety one and two, maybe I can and I got his yielding one and I can anyone. It was not what I thought it was going to be like. I thought I was gonna vietnam, but even even just thinking that we would have, like you know, era, to train thinking that guy's would be like avis. What we're doing that? There would be this extreme like miss like that. Wasn't We want going war, I mean we ve

do exercises. You know like it. Just wasn't. Wasn't what. If you weren't sitting in a room with like, like occasionally a vietnam guy, would come in and talk to you occasionally like roger Hayden, would show up and be like. You know do some I ads, and he d brief. You and you be like you know that was awesome, but sometimes some guided and never done anything not not to their, not their fault, but they did There is no war going on and nineteen eighty four no war going on a nineteen, eighty, seven, oh yeah, sure You guys went to great ass. Few government went panama, but not any large numbers, and so If you had someone like that, it was a lock most the guys, never done anything. And again no offense and they did their best to pass down. But there's just wasn't that to either. Could you knew you weren't going you know on the point in go, do exercises so yeah that Jim. I can't I can't imagine like for you Oh jack cars, you're you're You're a troop chief or your troop committee

I know who you're platoon chief was like you, can ask for better platoon chief, like these guys are focused yeah that had to be freakin, would yet role, and in two thousand and ten about, like don't worry, as on it was amazing. You that that environment is was pressed for us, since we went through buzz, because every single instructor that was at buds had multiple tours underneath your belt, some of them. You know we're deal with injuries that it had just come off the battlefield, when they put him abroad. So for us, like the the realization of the second, that you get to a seal team odds, are you're going overseas into a combat zone. Now, there's a couple of balloons that don't know, there's combo tunes that go to the philippines, and you know man that mission, but the odds were you are going overseas. So when you get into the training aspect now of going through our our unit level, training blocks and prepping, it's utmost focus and every because it's real everybody knows that the second that training's over with

You load the bird up you're, going to some place where you're going to get after yeah. I remember like I. I would be teaching urban and I'd see like a guy in the street like standing in the middle of street, like a new guy like just walking across the street or standing, and I would get like a knot in my stomach. I'd feel sick because I'd be things like this guy's gonna get shot like that's just me right and you hadn't we are in a whole staff of guys that we're thinking that way so yeah. This was. This was like a kind of a really good time to be for you to be a year junior officer and plus you're older. You know yonder mature year you're what'd. You say you were twenty five, almost twenty six years, the only time I saw be twenty six yeah, so you're, just you're, just in the perfect spot,

it was amazing- and I think, probably the biggest lesson learned for me going through that initial training training blocks was having high standard and then our platoon commander and our platoon chief. They had exceptionally high standards and if we didn't get something right, we weren't going to bed like we were staying out there and getting it done in one night in specifically just to kind of give an example of that as you're back on san clemente island going through the urban training, and we had just wrapped up the urban training and now we're transitioning to the maritime operation. So boats in the water coming in doing your ot, be over the beach type preparation that type of stuff and big waves out there at the time of year that we were out there and we had a couple of guys who just didn't prep their rucksacks properly and they couldn't get through the surf zone and our platoon chief losses mine and we spent the entire night doing nothing but swimming out.

Pass the surf coming back in and swimming out past the surf, and at the time it was a miserable experience, but the next day you're like there's a reason why we did that we failed. He has a higher standard and by the way he was there with a swimming through, it was like he was on the beach. You know giving us pointers with a bullhorn. He was leading us through the surf zone again and again and again so that mentality of you're gonna. Do it until it's right later on with the fact of now. We truly understand why we're doing it until it's right because overseas, you only get one chance to get it right. So probably the biggest Since learned was when you hold a high standard, which our leadership absolutely held. High standards guys not complain about it, guys, like guys, love guys enjoy being apart of an platoon like that and that's a perfect example of the carrier. People and not

misconstruing taking care of your people to be. Oh, I'm going to let my guys get off easy. Oh hey! You know it's no big deal for a couple of guys can't get through the surf zone. It's no big deal, We still need to get some sleep tonight, techno. Actually, what's important- is unique Do your job and you're ready so where'd you guys gonna go not upon it. It was all with a place for awhile, as we were supposed to go to iraq, and then we were going

go to this new place, called the crisis response element, and then we were going to go back to Iraq and then about a month before we actually deployed we found out. We were going to Afghanistan, which of course everybody was super fired up about, because at that point in time Iraq was more or less shutting down and Afghanistan was still rocking and rolling. So the unique thing about this deployment is in order to get. They just switched the concept up of how they wanted to deploy the seal platoons into this, they went away from a regionalized perspective where petunia were going to only deploy to certain regions, but what that meant was the site, the goal of deploying platoons was now going to be off and in order to get all the buttons all the seal teams, I should say back into a cycle where it's predictable deployments seal team. Seven and whatever our counterparts on the east coast was which I think was still team. Ten had to do in eleven months, parliament in order to synchronize the schedule for the rest of it for the rest of the community,

awesome, so we get to go to afghanistan and we get to spin almost twice the time in Afghanistan. Like a unique thing about this, was we were doing a new mission set over there? That was called village stability operations and the theory behind village stability operations was Afghanistan is a is a wild place, there's tribes all over the world there's different villages that don't even know that a central government exists there. Just all this tribal influence it goes on and they wanted to be able to link all of these tribes together, basically into one kind of cohesive.

Central government and how they wanted to do this was by embedding special operations units inside these villages, training up local police forces that would eventually be able to provide their own security once u s, forces pulled out so that taliban and insurgents wooden just flood back into the region, the second that america pulled out. Basically, so are you I was going to be to embed in this village that no americans had been in an step. One was clear: white space and that's kind of military terminology for theirs, bad guys in this area. You, the first thing you need to do- is get rid of them, get them out of this area, because if you don't you're, not gonna, be able to actually dedicate time to training locals to be policemen.

Because you're just going to be fighting all the time so step. One was quit all the bad guys out. Step two was build, this localized police force, train them and then step three was basically transition over to giving them tie them tying. All these villages into a provincial government and the provincial government is now tied into the centralized government so up our platoon, and I think there was two platoons from team. Seven that were doing that mission or platoon, in the seal patterns. Fromm silt intend with a first year, pertains to do this mission. There was different view worrying levels of excitement about doing this mission, because what you see is normally do what we think we do when we go overseas, direct action, we're just going to find a bad guy, we're going to kick the door down or we're going to grab them or do something else to them. Basically, this was not this mission on its ass. This mission was a by with and through mission, so

there was the opportunity for guys to not be very excited about doing this mission, but because we had good leaders- and they he understood all opportunity that was later inside of that mission and all the freedom that was layered inside of that mission. They did a very job of giving us the why, behind things hate we're going to afghanistan? Here's the mission that were tasked with here's. Why that's a good thing? Here's what this affords us the ability to do as a platoon, so they were petunia that did that mission that were not excited about that, because your training people, but are leadership, was very creative. They really understood the mission which will long way, and they did a really good job of not lying to us about stuff. For being honest and just painting a picture of all of the things that we could accomplish, if we played our cards right on that mission- and it was phenomenal- I mean we within two weeks of being in country in afghanistan-

We loaded up a convoy. We drove three hundred miles away from the nearest big american base, which was missouri sharif up in northern afghanistan, and we embedded in village in the middle of nowhere like literally night, one was circle. The wagons like park, your vehicles in a circle, stand watch and you're, just living basically out of your vehicles as your building up this little farm in the middle of nowhere, and then we spent the next eleven months just trying to build relationship with different tribes, different locals and then clearing white space out, and definitely some probably the the big stark contrast for me- was the perception of what we were trying to accomplish virtues the reality on the ground over there. So the mission is you want to build this.

Infrastructure where you can tie these villages into the central government and like that is going to be a really good thing for them right. Well, guess what none of those villages wanted they wanted. Half of them didn't even know there was a central government. They didn't know this guy. It is I who was the president existed there living basically almost like an biblical times out. There were its them, their family in this village. There never gonna leave that village, their hurting their growing crops, logan live they're gonna die there and everything is run internally to that village. So, part of this mission was we had to conduct all of these key leader engagements, which means you know its aid. Echo is a tribal leader. We're gonna go into a patrol into that person's village and we're going to arrange a meeting where we sit down with this tribal leader and we explain to them why we're here is americans all the good things that we want to do for you,

as american. So we would sit down in these caille ease, and sometimes it was my platoon command or doing them. Sometimes it was my platoon chief, and sometimes it was me just depending upon who was available that day my initial take was take was well, I'm just gonna tell them all the great reasons about why we're here, you know we're gonna die you guys in the central government, and it's gonna bring peace and stability and all these things, and then you want any part of it and they would basically, just turn a blind eye or just buddhists out of the village, so I d change my tactic so we would have these kayo ease. And you know, the new tactic that I chose was Just tell him why we're really there and see how that goes, really here, because people that your country was harbouring flew plain into buildings. In my country and killed a lot of my countrymen and we're here to find him and guess what that resin, with every single one of those tribal elders, because that's

and of honor and revenge is built into a part of their culture, and we finally started to get some traction central government peace, the only people that about that. Were people who realized they could line their pockets by being involved with that all the other villages they were down to support when they understood that we were therefore basically revenge sake, Yes, wild in one. The big lessons learned, I think from vietnam, iraq, Afghanistan is you can't we can't trying impose are way of life. Are values are in ideas on what their the normal people there and it in their own government can't do that either by the way like they're there, the people, we're gonna be who the people are and if you're to try and do it. It takes generations. Do you take a literal generations to to, change the way people think and if you wanted to take kind of effort, then ok,

you can do that. But it's gonna too: it's gonna be on occupation, where you're going have to set things up and run things with a pretty stirred hand, but you know you I just present these ideas and people go. Oh okay, cool your way of life looks better than ours that they did. It just doesn't work, so don't try that how likewise the enemy contact like we're on this, the blonde opponent yeah and at first outstanding, from our perspective right now, So we, when you go on you in bed in one of these villages, it's just a matter of time any vs so site that we win and talk to for er? We were in contact with him before we started to do this mission. All said the same thing you are going to embed out there you're going to build up the little fob and then they're going to come they're going to come and they're going to try to push you out of this fog. They are going to try to kill all of you and basically take that that terrain

back so within about two weeks of us embedding it might have been three weeks of us. Embedding we had a big coordinated base attack that went down on our tiny little farm. He said base like most people are thinking a base. Now we're talking, I don't even know if we were a hundred hundred square meters of terrain that we possessed without our bay. Our camp was, but we had. These two terrain features right to our right, nor left, and we had built these open he's up there were they were constantly man. Twenty four seven heavy weapons stand off weapon systems, all thy good stuff, so many the day. All the sudden round start coming in inside of the camp, what or start coming in rocket start coming in and our camp was on the far side of a wadi which wadi for those that dont know is basically a dry river bed and on the backside of the lahti. Was all this high ground is its? Have? Ghana stand, it was basically,

the beginning foothills of a mountain range, and they were launching this attack from the backside of those mountains, and it was probably seven hundred eight hundred metre. So they were just love and stuff in and as soon as it happened. It was very clear that that my petunia that thought through this exact scenario, because there was zero the on the call. It was load up, we're going and we're gonna take the high ground away from those guys right now, Unfortunately, for me, I got stuck back on the phone men in the radio, because timing wise, my Potu commander, was at one of these big haley's somewhere else. So my chief pause me aside as rounds, are coming in in he's like a man. Sorry, but you have to stay here, and you have to keep radio contact going with higher headquarters. So they know what. When on so my job during that was basically communicate. Coordinate our stand off. I've been systems why they maneuvered out through this wadi and then base.

We popped up on the high ground, where the taliban was expecting them to do. They were expecting us to just sit inside of this base and try to slug it out with him, and it was very we know that they were not prepared to get outflanked like that is our guys pushed them right off the high ground. They got them on the on the back slope of this mountain range. That was a vineyard and they all hunkered down in this vineyard, and then there was a a b one flying overhead and we just rained thousand pounders and five hundred pounders, two thousand pounds and five hundred pounders right on top of them as our guys were, were pinning down, and the whole thing was over and probably an hour hour and a half and that kind of set the initial tone for deployment and then because in leavenworth, you going through seasons you going through summer you're going to fall, you go through winner, The fighting season in Afghanistan is real, no April star,

the fighting season, because all the snow melt people can move around and then by them november when the first no comes the fighting seizing, is basically over so months so that eleven months was very kinetic. Was some time and in the last couple of months, were basically dedicated to training more or less, because no one was out. No one was will end the religious wasn't that must have been left in our area, because we had done our job and clear them all up and built up the police force two were now, they had presences inside of all these different villages and they were denying terrain to the to the insurgents what will your big out lessons learned off that deployment big lesson learned one was in it, it really probably fully take advantage of. This were appreciate this but my platoon commander gave me so much freedom on that deployment and we bought heads a little bit during during ul tee

but he always looked out from he always had my back and on their deployment. He gave me a whole lot of freedom to make mistakes to, and I made some mistakes that could have caused the some, only to maneuver with higher headquarters, and he took care of informing and he didn't know beat me over, had for it. He just pull me aside and kind of talk to me about hey. Think about this. Don't think about that. You know this is what you need to be looked at from a perspective, Of course, it's not just the file running around in trying to chase down the enemy like we have higher headquarters that you have to appease, and you have to have relationships with him as well. So one was just When I was a petition commander trying to mimic that freedom to the guys it that I was leading so from a professional standpoint, just giving your guys that freedom Personal one for me was just how quickly complacency concrete in.

Over an eleven multiply com, especially so for us ideas was a huge worry in this area and it was a very effective weapon system for the end a very low cost and within three weeks of embedding we were doing a convoy and it was not crazy, with just a resupply convoy to go pick up. Some more supplies has again we were living in the middle of freakin nowhere, we were driving down a road that we ve driven down a dozen times. My vehicle was a third vehicle in that convoy, and we had a pressure plate in a blue are you go off. The road blew the rear part of it out. It was a match these. What they call So it's a mine resistant vehicle that was designed to basically be able to take a blast. We are, thankfully, better than a humvee right, humvee flat bottom blast hits it all that energy gets dispersed right to everybody. That's inside of it really bad day. The Matt v has a a v shaped hole. So when the blast goes off, it kind of

directs, a lot of that blast energy and we were in one of those in it. Luckily, for us we hit with a back we'll so most of the energy was directed towards the back into the vehicle. It blew the back axel off it pushed us off road, but more or less everybody on the inside was was just fine, wasn't an ambush or anything like that, I think they just laid it there and left. So within three weeks of being in country, I'd experience and I d I'm like paranoid of idealism. I'm dial, denmark, I dont want that experience again, were there for eleven months you doing patrols every single day. Complacency starts agreed back in You start to pay a little bit less attention on your patrols too, where you're, where your step in when you're dismounting from your view, go do and you know you look to make sure things are going on you're, starting to get a little complacent about half way through the deployment we had been sickly done all we can do from our little camp. We have cleared all the

space out there and there was one village left in our area that was like the taliban stronghold. So What we decided to do was in bed in that village, we're going to do a bit clearance, operation, clear them out of that village and then embed in that village and make their stronghold are next, so site- and if we did that it was basically checkmate for the region like we now control of the region. So it was a big movement. To get everything we needed to do another embed down there. And also a clear its operation at the exact same time and air that we chose to make our h q, you know you're picking it off of it of a mat, basically have satellite imagery. And there was a school house at america had built zactly only concrete building in the area, and we had built it. I think in two thousand and four well, the second that we left that area the taliban dismayed at their h, q, building,

more school and right before we went and did the clearance operation, we dropped a couple of jay dams on that building to clear everybody out of there. So we're like this is the place we're going to embed So my portion of this operation was, I was leading the embed team, so the clearance was going to go ahead and then I was going to follow right behind and we were going to seize that ground and basically try to fortify it as quickly as we possibly could and get ready to repel enemy attacks. So it's about month, six we get there and when we get there there's a big kind of open area, not necessarily a field but just kind of a probably an old playground. I would imagine right in front of the school and we were told that it had already been cleared of ids, so we get there I'm in charge, I'm not thinking too much about the id threat, because army had come through with our guys in their e o d had cleared that entire area

so my thing at this point with speed, we have to get the weapon system set up. We have to get some of our. Barriers set up to protect us that night, when we know they're gonna do a counter attack, so pay is, have ids. Let's get rocking and roman geysers come in through the side of the building and I'm trying to make communications with heart, with my platoon chief, my opportune commander and let them know we ve reached the schoolhouse and restarting the embed, but we I dont, have sat com issues, not working, so I break out my sat phone, which almost always work, and I'm trying to get signal and I'm just doing basely railroad tracks in this front, open space in front of the school try. Get a place. They get signal when I finally get the signal and I can it still for more than three seconds anyway. So, as I'm talking, I'm walking around this area, that's out front

and I finally let them know, what's up hey we're here and then we start the big movement. I bring all the logistical trucks in and we start actually offloading the weapon systems in all the things were. Need about ten minutes into that. Can it was one of our local partner forces. It was his country stepped on a daisy and the idea was to eighty two millimeter mortars. Blue both of his legs off or to EU d eyes, my navy, you D, guys were right on his right: side right on his left side and they were miraculously uninjured, but our medic goes over. There are medic and starts patching this guy up. The targets on you know, gets the the phenomenon, and then we see to come up with a plan to call on the h elsie my de guys, because now there's an active idee threat? They a path to the hiv, which is only a hundred metres away from this building.

In that hundred meters. They found six more ideas for the next twenty four hour period. They found a told love sixteen ideas right in that area that was walking around in not paying attention to what so ever so the reality of what was complacency had creep act in at that point. Parliament, and even though I had been told we been clear before the right call would have been to get my guys back in there and clear it. But I wasn't worried about that. I was worried about other being so complacency a real thing and you gotta keep keep watch on it at all times are So you come back from that deployment and now you're wrong and you you did you go into another like a scam? commander. You go right, putting comment. I would write a baton commander, so I was very fortunate in my self into other guys that were squad commanders at the team ass to stay. The team angle

and opportune commander spot, and we were given the opportunity to do it so very, very rare, and its unheard of nowadays because of the officer pipeline that we have but back in a couple of guys get the opportunity to stay back, and I was one of the fortunate three they gotta to stay back and do not petunia and how Jonas work up and everything my expectations were very high. You know we did really well going through. Are our first work up and just kind of mates. To me it. I think a lot of that was the matter. That I received from my balloon commander, my platoon chief. There wasn't one area where I felt like I really had some significant struggles like landlord It made sense to me assault made sense to me The more ops piece made sense to me, so I was expecting to go into: u l, t r r training cycle and just you know completely blow it out of the water do for now, and if the part, the reason is, I've been very fortunate, my career to be teamed up,

with very solid senior enlisted, and that was the case in this one. My balloon commander, tourism, opportune chief ganem, Brian phenomenal. He still in like awesome tacticians super humble guy kind of guy, the wind speaks. Everyone stops and listen to what he has to say tons of experience, my l, p o, whose these second highest ranking enlisted person in. Out of the petition was the more calm sailor of the year. Just squared away everything he did. I my party leader good to go. I headed bunch anew guys So this was a twenty one person twin one man, platoon, and of that thirteen of my guys were new guys well. There are some challenges there, but also there's opportunity there. It means that we can raise them the right way. We can show them the things that are important, so I'm thinking we're just going to go through this training and just completely destroy it and our first block again and is land warfare, which I love, starting with land warfare, because it

Shows you exactly what you're working with from opportune standpoint shows you who you can go to who's going to be there. Who's willing to you know, put in the work all that stuff, so we get there. I feel very confident at land warfare. So I'm thinking we're just going to run through this training and it's not what was and it was very frustrating we were not doing very well during the language her block and after about the end of two I'm caught at my wits end here, I can't really figure out what the heck is going on in very fortunately for me, my fur, Platoon chief is now running that when warfare so he senses the frustration and again you know he is very involved in mentoring me throughout my entire career, and Pour me aside after one of our or afternoons of doing these immediate action drills out the deserts, where things are just not going well and he's ok. So, what's the deal, and I d

I have an answer I was just so frustrated. I could not figure it out. I was like I don't know like I feel like I'm making good cause. I just can't like we're just not clicking and he's like well you're you're, trying to control too much anna was taken back, I'm like well. What do you mean I'm trying to control too much and he's like you're not, letting your fire team leaders, you know make mistakes you're, not letting them take charge of stuff like here. You see a mistake, what competence It would be a mistake and your jumping in and fixing it and I'm like well, of course. Of course, I'm jumping in and fixing it like. I'm the but to commander I'm responsible for everything. That's going on in this petition in my mind I didn't tell him this, but in my mind, oh my qualified. If we make mistakes, the opportune looks bad and if the baton looks bad, I looked back so I'm trying to fix all these mistakes in really what I'm doing is unjust, hamstringing our entire platoon and central

I used to come a very centralized, even though I told you my last butter. I learn all about the value of decentralizing, but then you have to counter that with the ego. That's like. I want to look good and I hunted percent did like I wanted the opportunity to be the solitude. I wanted to be the best platoon commander, like I had in mind, personal goals or two, but really I wanted the petition to succeed and we weren't succeeding, and I was the reason and he said, will hate was probably not evident to me at this point in time either, because again, I've only been a community for two half years. At this point and I'm in a leadership position now- and he said why do you think we come out here in time and I want to see, did know the answer that has a quota to prepare for deployment he's like and what else or am I and he's like yeah, and he said well, how do you learn he's like you make mistakes? Man like your guys, are here

no one in your platoon has ever been in the position in right now you ve never been opportune. Commander but to achieve is awesome. Easy is, has never been a opportune chief The fireteam leaders have never been fire team leaders. You're all here to learn and part of that is guys, are going to make mistakes and we make mistakes here so that we don't make mistakes overseas and by used having in every time use, are about to see a mistake or think you were about to witness a mistake, your cutting off all this learning and their basically being too. And my guys are basically being trained to not do anything because l t war make the congress and you can't see everything zero. We can't be easier to control everybody and so even and the more they think you're gonna control them, and then you can't or they're waiting interest is a disaster. The disaster, and that was the text what was going on inside.

This unit level, training block, but fortunately for me it was our first block, so I was able to course correct and use decentralized command. Giving the guys the room to make decisions and guess what, when they made decisions, ninety breast the time they made awesome decisions timbers the time just like, I would do ten percent the time, if not more made bad decisions, and then we would debrief the instructors would tell us the things. I went right to things that went wrong, we'd fix them and they wouldn't happen again. So, by the time we were out of unit level training, we were doing a phenomenal. Phenomenal job totally prepared for deployment and fighting meters moroccan unrolling, lp owen chief, were nevertheless the thing that would any of us what about we knew. They were gonna, be awesome, but Far too there is a rock and roll on in my new guys because we had so many of them. They were like the backbone of the two. You know they were run and stuff. They were learning and we were totally prep for deployment,

and then where'd you guys go and opponent. Unfortunately, we did not go back to afghanistan and we did not go back to Iraq. I think actually rapture. On the tail end of our very my first diploma, so You went to a place called the crisis response element or the cry for short and that's a place in the Middle east that they stood up to basically be a break glass in case of emergency type scenario, will have to be with all this different, capable de. There was a boat team that was there. There was a t of one sixtieth. Was there a soldier basically putting all these assets in this central location in the Middle EAST. In case you another being gauzy happen which had happened the year prior to our deployment. So what everybody told you about? The cree was great opportunity. You gonna go there and you're gonna be like the force of choice. If any contingencies happen but the reality is nothing ever happen. So guys would go over there and they would be

six months on this little base and they would have to trial find a way to make themselves relevant and they really couldn't be there was guys in afghanistan that we're doing their thing and it was not a lot to do besides train and every now, and then you would go on. Maybe if you're lucky one of these, what they call joint, combined exchange for trainings or J said in that basically means we would go to, let's say lebanon and we would work with the lebanese seals Wasn't war but at least you were gonna, go someplace cool and do some train that was like the highlight of the creek so but he was really excited about going to the korean not going to afghanistan, but we had a great platoon with great dynamic very similar to the lessons I learned from my put to me: the ship in afghanistan. Just be honest, with the guys odds, are we're not going to do anything but we're all going to be together for six months we're going to train hard we're going to improve our skills while we're here we're going to be ready in case something does,

but in the end of the day we have a good time because we're with each other and naturally all the matters is we're all here hanging out getting better together. So that's kind of the environment that we rolled into, but you guys and actually ended up doing a pretty, significant support, for another operation has gone down. We did. We did that was Definitely the highlight of that tour and the way that we be were able to support. That was through a relationship. So our true commander had augmented this other command a couple of times in his career and we got into theatre. He reached out to a man at the time that particular command, which was a a tier one unit kind of a deploy for purpose unit. They were using army rangers as their response force. If you will so, they would go and conduct an operation and during the planning, go if they needed a call somebody for help. It was the army rangers bessie that they would call and they were building them into their plan,

so. He just call them up and said: hey I've got to platoons of seals sitting right here in this place. What do you think about using them as your support instead of the army rangers and they all about it. No knock on the army rangers whatsoever, but we all know Through the same initial selection pipeline. We speak a common, language, so they were very comfortable with that. So because the truth, men are reached out, made a phone call and leverage that relationship at all the sun. We had an opportunity to potentially go and get some work, so the unfortunate thing was not ready to go down there and support an even maybe not unfair. But a little was weird was they didn't want to send just opportune down there either because they didn't need twenty one people So they wanted to send about twelve people down there and age those guys from both platoon. So wasn't my key jack I'll. Take you opportune down. There was hey we're just gonna pick twelve people and we're gonna send him down. The initial idea was rotate those twelve people through, but if you

put yourself into the the mindset of the the people that you are supporting. You don't want that. You want the same poor people the entire time, so that you're getting to know each other and know how. Operate, so we did not being down in africa for about four and a half months of that deployment, and there was lots of different operations that were they were trying to tee up and the war on that got approve, was actually the one that probably had hands down like the highest risk attached to it. Blew my mind, like the other ones, kind of seemed relatively easy to go and accomplish. For some reason, this is the one that got approve, so we were what they call the I refer immediate response force in each other's different lingo for response forces, and I dont know that this is doctrine, but basically the way that they describe.

It was. Q, rf means you're like fifteen minutes out type thing: IO ref is you're literally right there, like your stage, ready to go on the x with them and if something goes wrong, you're there to support. So we were there, I rf, and it was a over the beach operation, which was phenomenal for us because, because we would apply to the creek, a big portion of our training was focused on maritime operations and over the beach operation. So we had prepared extensively for over the beach operations, and now we were given the opportunity to go and actually support which mode People would probably think well seals do o t bees all the time, but the reality is. We have not because we ve been engaged in conflict in afghanistan and iraq So this was one of only two over the beach operations that had happened. I think, and like the last fifteen years and to be part of it. And o t bees are not easy.

What they can go wrong. I I did three shipboard deployments around enlisted seal, two as an illicit, your wasn't after so I've done, like the so many o t be ops. It's totally ridiculous. When you do an hour for dune. We every up, will do be an ot, be like go to be all time. It was and we got really good I had a core group of guys. We just did back to back out for to, and so we were, the good at it. It is something that you really do legitimately have to like practice. Unrehearsed like a few dont practice for patrol. You know worst case scenario: you you you, you know you get, an hour of lost in you, gonna, walk back or you don't practice called dives, you also need to practice, but in diving is like your kind of contained. Like you'll. Have your rig? You have your swim. Buddy, you go. You miss the target worst case scenario miss the target. You swim back to the extract point, man

screw about he be like it's. A disaster like boats are sinking prince or get lost. People argue, stranded. It's just did a total disaster, so you have to be good at it. Takes it to get proficient in which running the training command. You see it even in training I guys or losing weapons in training geyser. You know crashing boats in training, even in a very controlled environments and now you're talking about a very complex operation just in what they were looking to accomplish and grabbing this one similar individual off of a beach in somalia and now you're layering on the most complex thing on the planet, which is the ocean and all the different things I can possibly go wrong with and surprise surprise if it could have gone wrong. It went wrong on this operation and I get into too much detail of it, but the

there was phases to the operation, so you can't bring in a big navy ship really close to shore, because people know you're there now. So you keep the big ship way the sharp and then you launch in our smaller fast boats. He can't bring those sports in too close, because their big and loud and people can hear them. So you have to stop the fast boats at a certain and that's when you launch the small boats, the zodiac and You bring the zodiac into a certain level to a certain distance and men, typically guys are swimming in, because it's dead, quiet so. The plan was launched. The fast boats to a certain point, launch the small boats to a certain point and then the assault force would swim in. We would about a hundred meters off the beach in our little zodiac and be prepared to support the operation. Everything goes great. Our doing his were staying right. There

we're picking them up as they come back out through the serfs zone in a perfect world. So we launch the fast boats, and one of them, hits a crackpot out in the middle of rigging. Nowhere in what first see, were soon nowhere driving around in right now, and it just happens to be the command and control boat. So the ground force commander inside the groundwork commander was the squadron commander of this unit is in this boat that goes down so odyssey initial rynch in the in the an operation right there, one of the boat guys the guys that driving around the swick operator has to jump in in the water at nighttime and literally pull the prop off and put a new prop on to get this boat back up and running. While that's happening this,

well, the forest is swimming in and by the time that boat got back up and running, they were already embroiled in a massive firefight on that target. So before guys even got to the shore, there was already things we're going wrong, so the intelligence leading up to this was that it was supposed to be pretty permissive target that this person was Asha Bob duration facilitator. He was now retired, which I don't know. What our show retirement package looks like like. They gave this dude allegedly a little chateau on the beach to live in, and he was definitely not retired. He was Lee still fully in the game, so the assault forest tries to get him out and they're just receding. Massive contact from all over the place their exchanging fire they're trying to find different ways to get inside this building, and they just can't do it because we're not at war with somalia. We can actually bring a whole lot of fire power,

to bear so. There's no overhead air support, which is very rare for you. His forces to go into an area where they can't drop bombs to mitigate risk, so the way that you, typically from a risk mitigation standpoint, get to be able to sin. Twenty guys, deepened enemy lines, as you ve got a lot of assets overhead that can keep bad guys at bay where there was none of that So it was kind of like the black hawk down scenario. Word do and when the word goes, somalia that people are here that they don't like, like a baby rally, the friggin troops and there was multiple different groups of armed males making their way towards this target, while there going on. We get the call to go locked down the beach and make sure that the beaches secure so that when the assault force comes off, they don't have a swim, they can just load up and we can get out of there because things are sporty pretty quick. So on the way in more issue start to have to happen. Boats we have formed,

What's with us, the small zodiac boats, the rubber boats and they're all just dying in the serfs zone on the wagon and come to find out the engines that they had in sea in in feed or at the time that we were using where these new electronic recall electronic, not carburetors, but electronic mission engines, so they had this safety feature on it, where, if it sucked in sand into the engine it would kill the engines, so you won't cycling that san through the engine and burning it out while you're doing an over the beach operation, in somalia, you're gonna hit you're gonna hit some sand. So all the sir Dian geyser open out to try to keep the boats from tipping over and the surf zone, because the worst thing that can happen is your boy. Turn sideways and it takes a tin inch wave to put that boat over completely.

So guys were jumping in and trying to keep the boats in the right direction. We're trying to get the boats to the beach and, at this time the assault force is coming off of that target and we're starting to receive some pretty cynical. Me, no machine gun fire I'd, not convinced they knew exactly where we were, but I am convinced that they knew we were coming from the beach somewhere. So they were basically just trying to spread the beach down so the guys are coming off we're trying to load guys up we're trying to get through the surf zone. The boat keeps die and some boats have fifteen six in people in and which are not meant to have sixteen people wyndham. Some boats have three people in em. You ve got jet skis, that are coming in and trying to pick guys up. It was just pandemonium but The professionalism of the guys that wrong the target was one of the most impressive things. I've ever seen with all that chaos with all

dignity is going on, they were talking is calmly as you and I are talking right now and even though they didn't accomplish the objective, everyone came back, which was a miracle, and there was a lot of really good lessons learned from it operation, but it was very unique opportunity in the big lesson learned was when you the water in their effect can go wrong is going to go wrong. You, I was I was kind of give way The credit for seals being good because lot of times. We don't have to work with the bottom enough to work the water. Everything seems easy. You know or any one else. It tries to get the water. Do they do this job, it's very, very difficult! So you, but that deployment and then- eurobonds are you'd come about stocks. I went right from there, I actually ass. I say I want to state the team into a troop commander tour so who was awesome was like a year way. Junior do trooped mandatory, so you have to go somewhere else, so I wanted to go to

woods because I knew historically, if you're, an officer, buds and there's a need at the team, but say someone gets fired. Let's say someone gets injured. You can very quickly raise your hand at buds and say argo feel that gap so. My whole plan was to go over there. Not that necessarily had this overarching desire to be a buds instructor. It was, I know For fact, if someone gets fired or someone gets injured and they need a replacement, they'll pool from from buds pretty quick, and I could get back to a team quickly, so I went over there and I ran the third phase of birds, which is the last phase, which is The portion where you're still selecting people is still very physically hard, but now you're actually teaching as well. You're teaching marksmanship you teaching demolitions, your teaching, very basic land warfare, tactics and

it was a phenomenal tour. I did not know that I was going to enjoy it as much as I did in a big portion of that was my crew that I had were just a bunch of savages. They were just ass. It might be a pity me of what you want of above instructor. They were all studs. They were all in a very physically imposing they were all very good at the skill. They were all completely body into teaching these students and it was just an absolute great hunt in its seat of selfishly too. You can actually spend some time mentoring these young men first phase, not a lot of entering goes on in first phase, because you don't know how many people are going to be there at the end of that seven weeks by the time they get to the third phase, odds are the guys are going to graduate couple guys mikey road for land navigation for safety odds are the officers coming through that programme are gonna end up facility, so you can start really working with them in an invite

Do you work anyhow weeks while you were there? Yes, every opportunity was, unlike on the looking at that from the outside the thing stuck out to me. The most was ass, a student going through it. It just seems like absolute chaos There's no rhyme or reason for anything that goes on, like it's just a free for all in the wild west, basic and then you get to see it from the backside and everything is organised control down to the smallest possible detail, its remit to see chaos. But there's time and tables for everything that goes on from an instructor point. You know that stress levels exceptionally high, but it's also a very controlled environment for safety's sake. Is your asking people to do some pretty ridiculous, and you see some gnarly things when you're going through watching people go through how weak as well once do impetus killer was dragging a little bit, so we brought him over and we put out the pulse oxenham and my men.

Pour me over he's, like hey man, to take a look at this, and I look at his pulse ox and he was it forty six percent- and I say this zero percent chance chances if what he be dead, if he at forty six percent so throw that one out grab another one and bring it back over here. Do it again, forty eight percent, if you told us to a doctor clinically there, and his death. You can't survive, but somehow this dude was rocking and with forty eight percent oxygen go. Throughout his body, and we know we very calmly, escorted him to medical to get examined, and then what? a few minutes, he was back I'll get after it again, so that the amount of things that people can pushed themselves through is just are inspiring. When yours, you're going through your just don't have that perspective. I think really what you're going through you know you just get after it. When you're an instructor and you see what these guys are going through its its impressive? Its awesome

any better it after you know who's gonna, make it hmm if it was a wrestler, I put my money on the ressler if it was Gotta played water polo. I put my money on the guy that played water polo I d no that I got any better at anybody else, but those too I'm a graphic for some reason if you saw guy come through and he had cauliflower ear. I don't know that. I don't know that. I saw one that didn't make it through a lot. Different theories behind why that is, but I don't then I got better at pickin I'll say this: I got better identifying people that wouldn't be there because he instructors wouldn't allow them to be there for me longer- and I usually had to do with their ego in their attitude towards other people very quickly- you could pick out like this. Dude is knock and, alas, because his people are gonna turn autumn and then the instructors are gonna, make sure that they don't make it through the programme, which is a very good thing.

Because these people are concerned about themselves and not about the team hotter percent. We don't want to know which do you got on with that, so being a budget, the trucker. So I was now quite through with my tour yet, but my master plan for going to bides paid paid out so at that I'm there was a need for another troop commander at still team. Five and I was only about. Sixteen months, maybe into a two year tour at buds and my Zack active officer was again in Jimmy may, and I asked him ass. It hey, I think, there's a need at supporting five for a troop commander. Can I jumped berlin and go, and he was like. I will never tell somebody wants to go back to appear to know so yes, you can. You just have to convince the skipper and see him see over there that aid that they want you on the team and one of the people I had had ever tuna work with its seal team. Seven before jason, garner nice team, echelon front

he was a see him see over there, so it was a pretty easy sell for meta slide over there. So I left buds early and went over there as a true commander, and it was just a phenomenal tour phenomena. Tour the entire team. I think it was. The first tour I had were it seem like the entire team was focused on the team and not individual performances. You you go to a seal team, usually there's three troops. And usually what happens, is one troop is competing against too true, which is competing against reach, which is good. You want some competition, but it can get unhealthy. One want might not share lessons learned from training to to true, because they want to go to work understand so they want all the yard the attention, basically so even inside of your troops sometime, you can have to

reaper tunes that maybe not really supporting each other as much as they sure there's too much competition. I do not feel like team. Five was like that at all I the commanding officer in the sea, the see jason, said a real good to right off the bat of what we expect is the entire team to act and function as a team that was the first time I was ever at that the true commanders spent time frequently together that the petition commander spent time frequently together in a really made a huge difference in just the entire culture, of that team. In that team, my experience was, everybody was just fired up to be there ever He was fired up to train and everybody just wanted to go and opponent how's work up phenomenal so going through again, I was blessed with often Middle senior enlisted adviser he actually just retired after yo, twenty plus years of service and I felt again very kind but that we were going to go and just crush this training

tune. Commanders were all phenomena. My platoon chiefs were all phenomenal. They had all been multiple combat situations. I think you know just about all of my platoon chiefs just solid solid, And we got into unit level, training and first book, Retraining was again land warfare, which is awesome, and at this time We were transitioning as a community away from training scenarios that were more focused on fighting insurgents and shifting into raining: scenarios that were more focused on what they would call great powers, competition, so people that have enemy that has similar capabilities to us. Think russia think china may have jets. They have nitrogen goggles, they have radios, they can jam. They can do all these things so because they were pretty confident. The community was pretty confident our troop was was,

a good troop they wanted us to go through these ft x- is first and experience them as kind of a test before they rolled them out to the rest of the troupe. And then we were fired up or like heck and they think that you know where to go through to for this, like: let's show them what's up so again, I'm I'm ready to let you decide set up such a bad setup. Right so we're ready to just run through this thing and he I was the determining factor in the fact that we were not successful. The first ever text- and I came up- This plan that was, It was too complex, it was. It was too complex and I was nerd now over this period, your operation, and I had you know three per toots. I three pollutants that I could bring to bear on the battlefield. And I wanted to get a lot of them out in the field and what that met was. I just had to many positions. Two positions in the high ground and then a third position that was kind of in an adjacent piece of high ground and in my mind, that all make perfect sense,

The reality of the situation was when go on a land warfare empty x. For those of you haven't been yet things Illegal was planned and going to receive contact and there's gonna be a lot of problems that get thrown your way so the polluter. That went into do the actual clearance and try to grab the bad guy that we were after All the sun there, embroiled in this massive fire, you know situ, They shone. Awareness is lost of what of where who is, and they come out of their this village and they're, trying to extract with there. Prisoner that they have now and they see, muzzle flashes in multiple positions in the mountains to include bag positions at her up there too, and they engage one of the issues that I had put out there, that should not have been out there, minor l is the tactic, violated that and we pay the man for it that night and it was a high.

Represent my plan. A hundred I was convinced like I'm like we got everything, lockdown ella, there's no way anyone's gettin in here, and it was just too much. Complexity for wind, stuff, hit the fan on target and we went back guy that I really respect was running training he's finished up his seo tour. I believe at seal team, seven phenomenal guy am, I got a good honest debrief the master chief there that was running twentieth time again, phenomenal guy, like I said, professional and we got a good, hard. Honesty. Brief, The overarching factor was my plan, which is too complex and you guys can understand what you wanted to do. They are not going to get it done, especially ones. That may have its say why the mayhem heads man it just every out the window and that's exists. What happened Everyone knew of those positions were until the mayhem hidden in it,

ill guys are now sucked into a firefight and there's multiple bad guys in the hills at a maneuvering as well, and they can't see us from the ground. They just see muzzle flashes and they ended up. Engaging a position that I put out to support that mayhem, that plan did not survive first contact for sure. So we we being me sk erected on the next to empty x, as we came up with good simple plans and we not enough to next swiftly x is out of the park. And again I can't take credit for that. I am really sorry, with commanders, really solid platoon chiefs, and all I had to do was give him a good plan that was not too complex and just let them execute on those plans. I say give them, because these were troop size, empty access, these more platoon size of taxes, every empty ex was of a dutch website. It's kind of cheating Yeah like when I was a true common when to commander effect I was kind of cheating, because people do that

Aren't you going to put this you're in a great europe? our teams and mixing up another ignored stay with a normal hardships and well I don't wanna put in want of euros, are not born under that, and it was so. We get up. May I am what happened we just be all in our standard. Operating procedures will have to change anything and it was like kindly easy. I remember when I first started when I wrote down. The laws of combat right, and I didn't reference, though Off of anything on it refer to any manuals. I just like. I know you for the story, but out there at at our Warfare training has watches between fall partners like okay. I can do what they need to do. They don't know how to lead. Here's. What you need to do. I didn't go back, can cross reference like any other. War fighting manual from the marine corps or fm, seven tacky from the from the armenian do need. I just took what I had what I knew and then You fast forward like six months on, like hey, you know, I need to make sure that one on putting out is solid right.

And one of the first ones I felt like I kept telling everyone the key to keep you simple you to keep it simple. You need to keep it simple, then it turns out literally the oldest maximum of the oldest maxim of military leadership? Is keep it simple. That's like none one you can look at any you know, and in a military leadership and how to conduct operations sec. You had better keep it simple and its literally like cheat you go out on these crazy operations, but everyone is doing what they've been doing for the last three months or the last three weeks and everyone knows their fire team and they know what the objective isn't to go to no factor keep it simple. Yeah, the next two ft axes were simple. Online l, clear and surprise, surprise things will awesome They also work up the big thing, Stuck out to me was we that there was gonna, be the potential that we could be clearing isis out of mosul on that deployment.

So the battlefield that change tremendously from the guests had only the second iraq war that you guys were an invite. In it we were now not necessarily it was it wasn't our fight. It was the iraqis fight. We were going to be enabling them with care. Buildings. We were gonna, be right there beside them. You know with inside someone that fighting, but it was gonna, be their job to clear those people out. It was also, exceptionally, micro managed. The campaign was so we knew that we will be working with army personnel marine personnel. We knew that we were only gonna, get basically one chance to impress upon them or level of professionalism, so a big thing that was important to my s. My senior enlisted leader and I was making- sure everyone in our platoon understood why we needed them to look professional and act professional

why we needed to be clean shaven when they get overseas, while we needed them to be in a proper the uniform, maybe even more importantly than that, why we needed them to be able to understand what operational terms and graphics were which for people not in the seal community. Nobody cares about those in the seal community Luckily, because I had such good leaders at the bottom level, we only had to say at once, and then they took it upon themselves to carry that message. And the overarching why we gave him was we're not guaranteed. There's other units in theatre, there's marines in feeder, Amar socks in theatre in armies, in theatre in theirs, and not just because you have a try and on your chest doesn't mean that you're gonna be the force of choice to go into moser like the opportunity. Is there but we have to be able to take advantage of that opportunity. So not only where we focused on training, but guys really had to be focused on the professionalism aspect of it, and it was easy.

It was easy and I think the reason it was easy, because I had such good leaders at the troop level and they really understood in one that message and guys want to go fight. And if the, if the price you have to pay to go fight it is a clean shave and is called to a uniform in and looking at the small unit tactics manual every now and then then that's what they were going to do. F m one, a one tac, five tac, one no operational terms and in terms of graphics, we, it was crazy that we would brief senior leadership in the army in the marine corps you, rising what symbols with made sense to us just like arrows yeah like closed areas? Sealing it yeah, just just like random whatever, if thought worked and man when I figured out, like oh the army, in the marine corps actually- and actually all NATO forces- follow this manual right here, ok cool! I got it now

a huge step forward in life. It was, learning to speak their language ie in a in a split second cause? You only have to pull that book and you forget what you're supposed to be saying and then how that appointed go. Oh, it was flannel phenomena are just start off by saying I didn't do anything that deployment My role as a true commander was going to be back in the rear, basically with the command structure, supporting in enabling my guys they're just wasn't a role for the true commander to be in the field at that point in it in the war. I note that was fine. You I Add two great opponents where I got to have some fun and now was my turn to watch my guy. Go out there and watch all their hard work pay off. I think our job was done arm heavy lifting for my my troop chief, and I was done during you already. It was making sure that they were trained up as well as they could possibly be because we knew that we weren't gonna beyond the field with him.

Are there opportunities to get out for an operation or two and go see your guys and have a good time yeah, but I'm not going to be the ground force commander for these operations. My platoon commanders were going to be the guys leading the and because of the level professionalism that our whole team had and because commanding officer and our command master chief. Had this vision, and of how they were going to make themselves the force of choice for the moselle clearance. Our guy became the force of choice for the most parents, which should not have happened. The marines were actually controlling. Seventh, those, I don't know moses in northern iraq, it's a big city half of the city's very metropolitan very very well was very new and the half of the city's what they call old mozart. It kind of looks like it was built, probably in the eighteen hundred type thing: mud huts, that type of thing

So the marines were given ownership of the battle space up north, so Moses was in the north so that the clear choice when you look at it should have been the marine should have been leading the charge into Mosul. Our commanding officer did a phenomenal job of training us in preparing us and selling our capability, and because he did that and put in all the work building relationships with his his commanding the command structure inside of iraq before deployment. Even he was able to convince, in that actually, the capabilities that we bring to bear or more suited for that campaign than the marines weren't look nothing against the marines. We just had a commanding officer that was very good at selling our capabilities in building that relationship and become he could do that. Our guys were the ones it went inside morsel. So I gained two more opportunity for deployment, because there was so much work to be done inside of Iraq. I went through work up. A three percent

and then, at the end of our unit level, training cycle, our big training block. I was given to actual tuned to go into poor with, so I was going into iraq with five patterns those five petitions, we split up into seven different out stations, so spread them all across the country and each of their jobs was basically clear. Isis out of your space that urine and a big piece of that ended up being mozart, so, most of the time energy and effort got spent in clearing mobile and again I was an up you know, I let my guys run the show they were well train. You know they knew what the mission was. I got to go out. Couple of times and have some good times with him, but it was them leading the fight and they did a phenomenal john, absolutely phenomena. Jump and by the time or diploma was over, our guys had come. We cleared all of eastern mozart, sorcery yeah, easternmost older, the big city crew

is urban, combat isis. That was their caliphate at that stage in the game they had put all their fighters inside that city and they pay them up when they knew that the clearance was coming. They would send fighters from Syria to plus this up so now imagine your clearing through the city was skyscrapers and it's completely controlled by three to four thousand isis fighters letter inside of their and because they, the whole city control before we pushed in, they were doing things staging these giant suicide vehicles in all these different garage. So you would be clearing and then all the sudden two blocks ahead. This is something that looks like something out of you know. Mad max in a fury road would come out and it will just beryl towards you and you would have fifteen seconds to get a rocket or a bomb on that thing and if you didn't, it was gonna level, a city block

that was every single day for about the last four months of that deployment is the environment at those guys we're out there. And operating in in every single one of the petitions that we deployed with had the opportunity to in a lot of good kinetic operations on that diplomacy, which that was unheard of in two thousand and fifteen in two thousand, and sixteen we had gone through three or four years were guys just warrant getting to actually do the job overseas and we were very fortunate, and I think we were able to take advantage of the position that we were put in to actually go overseas and do some good work. You guys lost when you're, you D, guys right. We did the only guy they didn't come back, so did you find- and he was aren't you d chief, phenomenal dude. He was embedded with one of my I that was on the outskirts of moses, so they were up. This place,

the most or we caught modal, damn house, there's a giant damn up there, and one of saddam's old palaces was up there and we took it over and we were running operations out of there and they were running into ids, left and right up there, and they were also running into like chemically laced ids. So r e o d capability needed to be at this one particular site and that the the day that we started the push for mosul- and, I said push for most will because we actually had to get to mozart to start the clearance. So we were probably you gin almost a week war. Two scenario: there's no joke afford line of troops, what we would call a flawed- and good guys on this side, bad guys on the side, and you would go to that flat and you would just exchange fire all day long and try to get to a position where you could push the flat forward at the end of the day and then just do that day after day unto you actually get to mozart to start the clarence

so the very first day that the clearance kicks off our guy? embroiled in massive firefight at one of these forward line of troops and they realise that they're getting maneuvered on and they can't really stay in the position that the rain, so they make a call to get in there they're up armoured, veal boys and girls, to a more technically advantageous position to continue the fight. They realise, as they started to do that. My you d guy, J J, the chief, was in the front seat of the front vehicle cause. It's his to try to spot things right. He realizes pretty quickly that the route they chose took em right into a minefield? Basically, he calls on all halt another to figure out how they're gonna get out of this minefield so hey safe in safe out right and what that means for people. Mine in the military is. If you walked away, it's probably pretty safe to assume you can walk back out that way,

less risk than continuing to go forward to try to go left and right, because you ve already tried that path once so he's the vehicle he makes the I'll you're, all back soda back everybody up and the petition chief is in the back of the vehicle and he's got his door to the mat v open and he's trying to make sure that their following the exact same tire track that they were before and J J directing the entire thing, and he sees the potential with his door open? says: hey man, poacher door, like that's my job, so to achieve closer door. J J opens his he's looking I'm trying to spot- and I dont know if they had just barely miss the first time or if it was a crush plate in a crush played, is attacking the enemy will deploy where they will build a charge no attach a pressure plate to it. That has to have basically much poundage before detonate so like you, ve got these

two different connectors and in a somewhat steps on it, pushes it down a little bit more. Someone steps on into pushes it down a little bit more and the reason that's a great tactic is if I hit the first guy in the petition, everybody else can stop and pull back. If I hit the seventh guy, in a now Everybody's in a really bad scenario saw a crush plate is, is up will be what it was and as were driving back over it Detonated it engages was looking right down at the charge, and I did him in an hour. Eyes, try to keep him alive. They were working on them. After all, This went down after the bomb goes off all the guy in the vehicle. Clearly you know their bells iran, but like they're gonna work there trying to save them. They are able to keep them alive fur and pretty decent period of time, but there's no hope man he's he's got and by the time they get him to the door, the ages,

to get him out of the meadow back bird he's, not not responding. He's he's he's gone. I was one of the days that I was actually fortunate enough to be able to go out with one of my patterns. I was my another platoon charlie pattern and I were out at a their point in the floor line of troops- and I was having the best day I had on diplomacy far because I was far me. Out of the office with my guys in the field, we are exchanging it a little bit with the ice guys on the other side of the flight, and we were having a good time- and I was just love in back with the guys, and then I get the phone call and you know as a leader whenever you get we, we have our satellite phone with us, so that multiple layers of communication right. You ve got your satellite Oh, your personal radio. The vehicles have radios this is meant to be sure that you can reach people no matter. What's going on. When the satellite phone goes off. Usually what that means is there

We choosing not to communicate over the net that everybody in feeder can listen to So I feel the vibration in my pocket and I'm already got like the pit, the pit feeling too uncle. He was actually want to hear. What are you guys that tat told me and went from bested worse day. How long was that arm long were you guys know, actively fighting in muzzle, though ass for months, the deployment was every single day inside of muzzle every single day, and then what was a turnover like when you are turning over. We are turning over four hey. You guys are going to go and do what we were doing exactly right and just fortunately, the town

over happened at the best possible point in the clearance it could, which is. We had just finished the eastern part of the clearance we reach the river and now seal team. Seven came in behind us and it was their job to finish the clearance. So we had reached this perfect landmark to do that, an overall, they were there for a couple of days. Prior to that, so they got some good experience in they got to see what our guys we're going through and then we turned over to them and they got to take care of the western part of moses and clear that up and they finished that clearance on their deployment. And once that was done, isis was I mean they were more or less crushed by the time we had rolled out, not because we must We question, but I'm you say and therefore the moselle was gone. I work in a back, so team seven came in autumn.

For them to an unfinished. I finished it up the thing that was crazy to me about that deployment was at times the level of micro management that was going on. My platoon commander, that was in Mosul every day had to have a Since I had two, we chose to put it in there. He had a phone line in his matt v in his command vehicle that went directly to the one star commanding general of the theatre. That's the level of intrusive that was happening on the battlefield now, because we had such leadership in our commanding officer at an hour or command master chief. We embraced it. We embraced it. They said, look guys. This is going to be the reality and you can do what other platoons have done, what other units have done, which is pushback back against it and guess how far that is going to get you or you can embrace it, and you can give them everything they want before they needed and that's the best chance you have given a little bit of freedom, so we went in

the one stars jock their basically tat cooperation centre and He gave them every piece of equipment we had to allow them to battle track us, and then we put the phone line inside which bain about g of seas exit since, but it was in there and it was his job to monitor. Phone line. If there was questions directly from the one star, he was going to be the one that need to feel that question and put that one star back in their com. Down so that we can continue the clearance and the choice was pretty cleared. You need to push back against it and you can how that works out for you or you can just embrace it and because we chose to embrace it. We had more freedom to manoeuvre than anybody else did now eventually, what happened is the leader was the who star commanding general the entire campaign, came and visited my. As in the field in Mosul, any saw. The process, and he said this is ridiculous and

almost overnight the author. Ready to release Munitions from aircraft went from the one star to the guy on the ground, so My change in that was based on the fact that you had a leader a to star who wanted to see what the reality was in the field and was not happy with what he saw any changed it up, and that was the real game changer for moses the first month of may, So the iraqi special operations forces were getting a treated so fast that we thought the campaign was over. Without that we were going to lose Part of that was they were not necessarily employing the best tactics and part of that was it took so long to get a strike off and when you are dealing with me the ball suicide vehicles bearing down on you at any given time, you can't hesitate with that stuff, you don't have time to call in paint a crystal clear picture so a bit piece of it was the iraqi started. Listening to tactics that are, I will tell them to employ an equally big piece of that. Was

Finally, our guys on the ground had the ability to conduct business, the way that it needed to be conducted, and they took full advantage of it you got it? You know no leadership position, you gotta glance. He was happening on the ground that others through it and if you doing that and you're looking at it. Distance man. Things just look different from a distance and they might even seem like your squared away the process to when you look at and you a flow chart to someone's presenting you on powerpoint of how the fires are getting approved. You're, like ok, is politics. Five, it. She knows probably takes three minutes. That's no problem! First of all, you don't realize how long three minutes really is, and you also don't realize that three minutes is really thirty minutes, so this applies to anywhere. It applies to. Businesses applies to everything, that's going on from your from your leadership perspective. You have to get out and actually go down and see what's happening, and if you don't do that, it's going to be you ve, no idea. What's going on no idea you have done without deployment. Now you

you come back and what you step up to opposite tilting idea. I did not want to leave the the seal team. I loved everything about seal team five and I asked her took a manner because I was still pretty junior the commander and they no, so I said: ok, cool ops and they said Sure you can stay around that ops and But you know ops is not usually a job that people are super excited to do in the seal teams. There's a lot of maybe bad stigma that comes with the ops jobs and just the of how many hours you're gonna work and you're, not with the guys and you're gonna, be doing some admin types dolphin. The reward the review running feeling is maybe not as high as as other tours. I loved. I loved it for a couple different reason, I had a phenomenal khamenei office, and a phenomenal command master chief in that standing officer gave me a whole lot of room to run. The day to day of that command and you're. Here

Idbi, commander's intent, hey here's! What I want to have happen, and I would go build out some some courses of action for him, and then I would briefing I which one I thought was the best one and ninety nine point. Nine percent of the time he would say cool, go execute. I also had very good good senior enlisted- was my counterpart ops master chief was another phenomenal guy who knew more about the operations role than I did because I never been in it before so. He helped me out, keep me in get me point in the right direction and then again we were blessed with really good. Troop commanders who made my life very easy and really good puttin commanders, who made my life very easy and unfair I did not get to deploy with them, because I got port to go to the the training command, which was awesome but always a bummer to miss out on employment, especially when you have a team that you just love and, in the other, nations job when you're the training cycle? It's not super rewarding. You know,

putting training together. You run command on behalf. Of the ceo day to day piecing. All those things get your prepping for deployment. Then you get on deployment. As an operations officer. That's where you can potentially have a little more fun. If there's a strike sail in theatre You're probably have a hand in running a whole lot of those strikes. I was very much looking forward to deploying and getting the opportunity to to run the strikes. L and so just I loved everybody at the command and I didn't want to to leave that command, but I was called out to go to the top command, which was awesome. I just want to do it six months later. I didn't want to do it right and in writing. Ya. Wanna make a quick note here: you put on by your career most, but the vast majority of your career. You ve had a lot of autonomy and been able to do. Lots of things, and that was very some more to my career, but We say cause. I was kind of you no track in your career.

First of all, what I'll put you through training in and then you know through disguised that taught you and what? What team what doing what, how they doing your squared away and when you're squared away thing, as are a lot easier when you're squared away you get a lot more leeway when you're squared away when you do a good job when you're, professional and people can trust you. When your when your boss trust you in the ops master chief when the ops officer when the xo, when the seal, when people trust you you can you can do a lot more and in its all those little things that you mentioned its you know making sure that everyone's professional, but it's also like pay doing a good job during operations and when you screw things up, saying hey. This is my father's when we do to fix it, like all the things are what led to freedom and having this autonomy, theirs I always say if you talk to most of the people that ever worked for me, they black africans,

It was like he let me do whatever I want like he was just he. Let me do anything anything I want to do he. Let me do it. There's a few p that we're not squared away, and if you said oh, how was it workin for job would be. Those of complete micromanaging there is no micromanaging. If I'm micromanaging, you there's a reason why micromanaging you and I wanted to point that out. You know you had a great reputation of being squared away of being professionals getting the job done of making good decisions, and that gives you a hon of leeway and look: can you get micromanage, that's like, doesn't matter what you do their micromanaging. Can you be in a situation where, like you're talkin about the beginning of that deployment, the first month, where look the even We talked about a commander, never been obtained commander before and an opportunity. You ve never benefited well, whoever is in charge during the initial assault of muzzle. They probably have been that hey we're, gonna, go assault, adieu, a siege assault on a city, it Brian ever If the opposition either so they're doing the best they can. They ain't quite figure

so, the only thing they know to do is just like country kind of like when you were it land warfare, as troop commander and your like, or as a platoon commander, I think you said and you're going to control everything. There was probably the leader there. Thinking I'm going to control everything going to make sure that we don't make any mistakes. I don't want to have any this. I don't have any that, so they get very micromanagement mode and something happens to happen where they can reach just a mindset in this case to star flies out, looks it what's going on the ground and says this is not right and then put some trust. Can the troops on the ground? But I just want to point that out. If you as a person, listen to this or feel like you're like me, and all I heard sean glass you've got to do whatever you want, I'm going to tell you sean glass, earned the right to do whatever one he earned that freedom and you're feeling, like you're microbe, getting micro managed it's not responsibility of your boss, too figure out that you need more freed up. It's you. A job too your boss, that you're gonna be

the decisions that you're gonna be professional, that you're gonna when something goes wrong. You're gonna take on should, like all these are important lessons and you ve kind of you. Spelled out almost like a fantasy career of I got to do what I want. I got a lovely we I got this. I got that I've been getting you have your d got three itunes. As a true commander, then they gave you five platoons as true creator. That's not normal! They had a huge amount of trust in you as a leader to step up and be able to do that. So I just wanted to we're down out. If people, if you listening to this and you're thinking, man that guy ray bosses heating get micromanage. I'm going tell you, John earned that right to not be micromanage, and I think it important to point out. You get done. Eighteen five now go to trade at you're in the best. What I believe is the best leadership lab in the world hands down. I don't think there's anything better than trade at four c

and watching and learning and understanding leadership on things and even close to it and you are in a position where you get to see leadership and action on most nightly basis. You get to see. Leaders get put in through a scenario and the next night you could see, other leaders gets inert. Same scenario and the next week you get to get the other leaders get put through. That seems her so you're, seeing like iterations of leadership and use to learn what works and what does it and It say it's a very powerful I think it's the best leadership lab nor I think you are how represent percent right. Something it in a testament to that is. When you are the officer in charge, that training command there are profession sports teams that want to come in to with you and your staff about how you organise training you git authors that are running books about.

Leadership that want to come and see what's goin on the red ball, training team came out there to see what was going on like it is hands down. The most unique leadership lab on the planet. And we spend so much time and money as a community training. And the scenarios that we develop like its testing. Every single piece of that platoon from the true commander, who me we have four deployments to the petition chief, who may be ass. Six all the way down to that brand new machine, gunnar every single empty. Is testing every single? yo set for one of those individuals when you always the biggest the or was it out you take away from it two biggest. Take away from a leadership perspective. One is if you came in there with a big ego from a leadership perspective. You people were gonna, suffer you pay we're going to suffer for six months if you couldn't friggin changed

and that I'm not saying I am also not not This problem not saying that was because my guys, what, home in on you and crush you. I'm saying because you would fail you take on the lessons learned and, if you're but to commander opportune chief, that's not accepting those lessons learned, your making the same mistakes, which means every night is a rough night for your positive we saw plenty of patterns you A bad for these guys were every night is a rough night for the opportune and its work, one hundred percent, on that on that leader, one of my favorite experiments to run and I'm sure did something similar was so time inner scenario, I eventually not every night, but reporting commander that came through got this at least once when I was there, I'd kill them innocent.

But we do want these big empty axes and I put him down and I wanted to see what was going to happen, and typically one of three things would happen: one everything which is grind to a halt, they will grind to a halt. No would make a call. No one would wanna make them decision, everybody would just kind of freeze and what that tells me that I need to talk to that. Platoon commander about his chest, he's micromanaging the same thing. I was told, Aspartame commander he's. Micromanaging is people are afraid to make that call the second. Thing that happened is pay everything with great guys pick up the slack they covered You know the cover to move for each other. They got to I've done and what that told me was the guy did a great job of, centralized commanded. His people knew what was up and they were not afraid to make decisions the one that was always my favorite to watches We would remove the potomac commander and everything would just get so much better Just so much better That tells me that person wishes to friction

yo maniac, just a hurdle just give that person out of the way and let the balloon do what they know is right yeah, it's crazy watching you could do the same thing like we might have a seat the strong platoon chief and maybe to save them you kill him and everything grants to a halt or you kill him and people people so stepping up, you notice you do those things and you d We learned and the eagle thing, most the vast majority of time guys would they would get that. Take the lessons on board, maybe like yeah, we saw last night gather was horrible, I'm embarrassed! You know. I can't believe we did that and over yo, five f taxes by the if one the land warfare cadre can't beat the tap the task, you know anymore. Can't be determining whether to good they maneuver too quick. There come for each other, their keeping things simple. They prioritize like they're just executing, and you can't there's nothing. You can do about it great that's what we always wanted to see some it was. We

sometimes you platoon or a troop. That would think what you wanted them to fail, which is the craziest the heath like throw you mock fred, like I grew up with you. I want you to win dude, but you can't do this doves just to get to that, because do that, but vast majority time. They were learning and it was great I one thing that I'll never frida, seeing guys like have an enlightened, yet right, see like a troop commander, opportune commander opportunity for just seeing I'm have liken enlightenment and they go from little being a bad leader at any figure it out and they may be I'm a good leader like almost instantaneously, that was we all seem to see, but and the experience that you get from a leadership perspective at that. In that trade up position, I was so lucky cause. When I was in e five I was at school team one and I was in training cell and I was teaching this.

Before there was s cutie. So I was teaching like new guy officers were taken about with the new guy enlisted guys and we'd go out, and I would be doing. I am with a man like I'd, be attached now it's you would look like an out. You will work and what in works or by the time I was an officer like I had already done. MIKE what with equal betrayed at war, yes friggin! So lucky! So lucky that the word. If you do use the detachment. Peace was the second big lesson learned, which is the second Finally, at the libel moment there was For sure is when they realise hey, I I to detach from what's going on right here from a leadership perspective, I can't be the person That's patching up the wounded people. All the sudden things would get a lot better for that entire entire. Tune entire Julia and usually would take a pretty rough night before you can convince and, like you got, it stepped back some people are harder than others and they wouldn't learn quite as we, but when you, them

and all of a sudden they're alive and they're just sitting there listening to what's happening, they're watching and the all of a sudden. The answers become very clear, but they're not allowed to do anything about it and I remember so many guys are back. This is what you should be doing. You see how you know. What's going on, you see how you're monitoring this you see, you see how we used to what they should be doing right these that kept. You didn't know that three minutes ago because you're freaking clearing rooms like an idiot, you should be clearing limbs? You shouldn't be working on that one guy. You should be handling these prisoners, all that stuff that you're doing like how many rounds do you have how many mags do you have left? I have two mags left out of nine wrong: going bros stop yeah you're, a leader yeah I was forty enough to learn that lesson early on the ability to detail That was one of the things that I would always try to impart on leaders, people in leader the positions as quickly as I could. So when I was one in third phase and we were exposing these young. Officers to tactics for the first time, we'd run these immediate action drills and they would he's been nightmares. I won because they're just learning one too, because they would shoot

seven out of nine acts and then the next round would go. I would talk to him in between reins, and how would you say, hey look man, your job is not to do that. Your job is to maneuver the platoon you're. You have a platoon. That's your weapons some. U weapons system as a sea. Opportune commander is your platoon, it's not your rifle and get comfortable, with that and then we'd. Let him go again. Some guys got it, some guys didn't and if they didn't the next run, I would take they're gonna bring in music guess what happened? The second. I would take the gun, all the sun there, making good call because they're not worried about seeing the world through a rifle scope anymore, it was the same thing at trade as soon as you get people to understand they had. To remove themselves from those scenarios, the better off than it was gonna, be for every single person that was inside of that trooper inside opportune. So two thousand and nineteen

you decide. You're gonna get out. You have a friggin awesome career. You live in the dream you ve had incurred. Global deployments, you ve had all kinds of autonomy. You ve got a great reputation, you're running training, what's goin wipes out get out family so at the time five kids and it was kind of a combination of things at all? I ever wanted to do was bc and I was having the best time in my life every single deportment, every water was my favorite tour. I was just generally love being a part of that community. I love putting on the uniform, I loved being around the people, that you have the community to be around when you're in that community, its unlike anywhere else in the world and as I started to realize the impact that some of those things were going to have on my family is shifted. My perspective from being

even if I would call it selfish, because my wife ever complained about my wife- is the asking with being on the planet and she's she's, one eight which, kind of health, probably in understanding that everything is not about you so sure fully supportive of the career she to hear her tell it. She knew that A sean inside the seal opportune or inside seo. Community was gonna, be a very fulfilled and happy sean. To translate, to a very good and fulfilled husband in a very good and fulfilled father even if that time that I was home was minimal. The tunnel was gonna be home. I was gonna be fully invested because I was just on call nine, the entire time you get through with it rate, at tour I was very young, maybe not a twice by tat I'm wise. I finish that tour and I was it like eleven and a half years in the military. So I started to look at the next portion. My career and again do I would love to do the next nine years,

no I'm not going to be with the guys, even I'm gonna, to be in some states. Positions. Hopefully, adding officer tour thorn in their towards the tail end, I would just say, love to be in the community, but when I looked at where my family was gonna, be during those tours. It change my math up a bit If you remember, I said my commanding officer when I was a true manner, was phenomenal He was phenomenal at everything, including just being a mentor on life too. He was the first guided sat me down in walked me through the rest of my career. I wanted to be, and not from a career stamp, He made me sit down with the sheet of paper. Like that In put where I wanted my next five tours to be. And then he made me right down beneath every single one of those towards the ages. My kids would be when I did that that hurt that hurt a lot sorry commanding officer, but it might be the reason I'm not the community more fit, but thank you for

our ties in me, but when I looked at the act that my oldest son ronan was gonna, be eighteen years old. When I hit twenty that her because what that means is now that I could find. We be there every day involved. His life he's gone, he's out the door to college, doing great things, hopefully, enlisting or going into the community. No pressure son, but now was a story that was kind of like a slap in the face of off shoot. Man like I've got one chance of this at this father thing and, like you said, I had a great career I had a lot of fun as a meal, unique opportunities and adjust became. To me that I needed to spend the rest of this portion of my life focused on family and not necessarily on myself. That being said: it's not like. I came to this decision overnight. I wrestled with this thing for a very, very long time.

Because I didn't actually know what I was gonna do on the outside I knew I loved the job. I also knew that on. The community had been looking out for me and they had giving me these very unique opportunities because they wanted me to be in the community long term, and that means a lot to me when I look at your true. Manner. When you were platoon, commander was my boss, multiple times, including when I was running the training command. He was phenomenal, so I had to tell this person who had selected me go and run this training command. To tell him that I was not going to be in the community more and I know for a fact He invested a lot of his personal time in me, that carries lot of? You know that the fact that people for their time in their effort in their mentorship into me. I didn't I didn't take lightly, but it his wages came down to hate it's either

community or its spend time with the family and family saw was gonna, went out one- and I will say this when I did have that conversation- he was awesome about it. He was always supported by us in my chops a little bit. It first of course, but he fully supportive of it in the community was fully supportive of that decision, which made it easier for going out of the community. No one that I didn't burn bridges, No one that I had a lot of people. You know still rooting for me, yeah, that's that's a tough one yeah, there's not a day goes that goes by that I dont wish. I was still in their, but then I'm at home, with my kids, I get her. You know, boxing in the town that I live in my son comes to it. I get to drop them off every daggett to pick them up most every day I get to go to all their games. I get to go to all their events and none of that stuff will be possible. If I was still in europe,

and it's what you do want you got out. Yes, when you went to a gorgeous, it is in our. You know you and I had already had the conversation about echelon front and I was going do that and then saw rewind too often, canada school. I told you to my my best bodies. Made an officer, canada school, and then we went through the the selection together. Some tours together well These guys got out. But earlier than I did an him in another seat. Who was a lifelong if he is started a construct. And technology which is not two things a typically go together, but it's a construction technology company, he wanted me to come on board with him and be basically Opium started up and run it. I was already in conversation with you and eu echelon front awesome has like this job is sounds amazing in the team. But just look at his on the team is for its basic like being in a simpleton again-

so I was all on board and I called you hey I've got this other opportunity to do this, and I don't think I'm paraphrasing. I think this is literally what you said, which is you would be stupid to not do that. You said go that- and I told you I was only gonna- give them probably two years in that position because we didn't want to be in California. We wanted a move out, and you said, go: do that for two years. Learn, some experience in the civilian sector were here when you want to come onto the team. So I did ask for two years I was the ceo for about the last year of that you know that there was no need for a ceo at first. There was like four of us trying to get stuff done, but that was at learning experience and also Just an awesome time awesome I am to see a lot of the things that we had learned in the unity translate directly to civilian life, which there's always questions about a right, there's, always she's about. Does this

if that we learn in this very unique niche is again a fit with the civilian sector, and the answer is because the car thread is people, and people are the same. The military as they are in construction as they are in the tec sphere. Do the same so you end up doing that for two years, company by the way and what they do is they build houses enough factory design everything they dig. Then build the houses in the factory in pieces and they ship a mountain. You have like a house in like too. Weeks isn't he has done it and say so: a gorgeous check it out If you need to build a house, the the So these two dues to the zoo they came up with this. Was they both built houses in corners and one of them did the traditional. Let me bring in a contractor design team and one of them said: hey it'll be quicker. If I do modular and they were miserable experiences both of em just freakin hated it an hour.

Experience they both said Just start this company, with our focus being too literally change how the united states built hopes, it's pretty lofty, gulf and I'm trying to put self? In that mindset of what I would have done? If I just build a house- and in corn and it was up, four process. I dont think I would have set out to start a company to change. Way that america bildt's, I think I would have just said- will that socked, now I've gotta go house and coronado that unhappiness but started this company, it's killing. These guys are phenomenal and are going to continue to do amazing things. I just want to be part of a team and its interests. Are you said your technology in control which normally dont go together, the right and These guys point out that construction hasn't changed yet hasn't changed in america in might probably fifty sixty. Here's sure there's some there. Some advancements whistling

material your view material, but also the way that you know you can go. You can have an ipad and you can see what the drawings are and you can kind of sea some different angle but still there same thing. You're still, I gotta go their swinging harrier, building the whole thing on site. That's it that's what you're doing and these I've. Got it now working to build this thing in a factory is going. Squared away when a ship out there to get this thing put up, I mean it's, it's it's changing the way that we do construction in the country. So I'm sure those guys are going to continue to dominate You do that for a couple years and then you move out too, virginia how'd. You land of virginia so again My wife one eight so she's originally from new hampshire her dad was undercover agent for customs for a long time So he was doing a lot of stuff in boston against the irish, stuff like that, so they they chose to live in new Hampshire is especially right across the border. He could commute enzo. Of one by one. They also

what kind of matriculating down to this town or, if I even want to say the name of the town cause I dunno, how many more people I want coming to live. And but it's a awesome town in virginia and they all started to come down there and and move into that town and it just became kind of the the mecca of our family. So It was easy decision for us, my wife, but probably say it wasn't easy decision, because I wrote my feet for a long time but when we finally made the decision apparently are their in answer their causes? there. The family is there, so we moved out there, we ve gotta, sixty acres out there on a small farm. Kids get to go to school with her cousins, they get to see their family every the day of the year, and it's all the things that, advantages of san diego yeah. There's awesome things that happened in san diego That weren't in san diego for us was we're, never having sixty acres and we had no family s for my my sister, whose a trainer for in S w

she's, the only family that we had here. So we was an easy decision to move out there and so on we transition you under in the echelon front, as this was happening like literally ice, stepped up rigorous one day and was onboard echelon front the next, how you like us offer? What's not No, it's awesome. Everything about the team is phenomenal, the work getting to go around in meat awesome, americans and talk to them about Some of the issues at their facing talking about how to be more effective leaders in their work life, in their personal life is ridiculously rewarding redeem. See rewarding. You see the difference that it makes in someone's life when they decide to stop pointing fingers when they decide to stop blaming other people for problems and they decide.

Actually do something about those problems. Its huge in you go and work with these companies and all kinds of different sectors of the economy, right everything you could possibly imagine and a lot of times when we get brought in its because there is a change in leadership. And new leaders came in and they realise that maybe things warrant done very effectively from a leadership perspective before and they want a fresh start. No bring us anti qaeda. Do some training talk about leadership in go and will see these. These p, or who are working hard jobs, hard jobs, factory, jobs, oilfields construction, other amendments just try to provide for their family, and now you layer on the heat. And you re wrong hard man. The labour and you layer on things that are in here lee not there a fast occupations and now, on top of that, you gotta, add the fact that they got to deal with the friction, boss, like that's a tough thing to see em we'll come in, and you see new leaders

comes in and they realise that there is a problem and they want to give a better environment for their people and that's awesome, come in and you can actually make people's lives better. And that really is the. What ship is all about, is, powering your people in every one area of their life and its call to be able to be a part of that. For so many different folks, and also I get to learn from from you echo from everyone on the team like up now don learning about leading just because I'm an echelon fraught now I get to work with some people and every time I go on It was someone I'm just listening and on one and two and its making better in my personal life and my professional life. When I first started, like actually teaching leadership in the teams like this is what I'm teaching when I start decent laws combat what I started teaching these things and I bringing up the chain of command. We need to be teaching this stuff, one of them,

arguments that I would use. I remember saying this to my commodore at the time I said: hey, sir, have you ever heard of hamburger university he's? I know what that is where It's an schomburgh illinois and its where, if you're gonna be the manager of a mcdonald's you're gonna go to a six month school to learn about leadership and we I said, sir. We have guys that are in a protein that they're not getting any leadership training dear dear opportune commander. Their l p, o thereafter chief and they ve never had any leadership training. Why is that we need to train these guys, and this just go so perfectly with what happens in the civilian sector euro, Ghana, construction site, you poor, concrete and eventually some was her you're good at porn concrete. Now you are in charge of team and I ve that team, while now you're charter you're alignment- oh you're, too good doing your job is a now going to in charge of this team europe. His personal, your best salesperson, ok, now you're in charge of a sales team. Now

gets trained in leadership, and everyone thinks oh well. You are good at this job as a plumber. Now you can lead a team that putting in you don't massive plumbing job. No, it doesn't that way you actually have to learn how to lead. Just like you have to learn to be a plumber. Just like you have to learn sales, you have to learn how to lead and that's really essentially one of the most important reasons why echelon front exists because there's people they get Ceo positions I ve never had a leadership training in their life. They ve never done anyway. There's people have got when got how many people have. We taught leadership that have their mba from an ivy league score. Some it's like they don't learn anything about leadership and they are so grateful when they realise. Oh, this is a skill that I can actually learn, and then we can put in the action almost immediately and then when they get their whole team and they are gone alike and educate all the people that are leadership, positions. The us the peace, the vps right on down the line, the frontline meters reddened out down

Why do the frontline troops the individual contributors, their learning, how to lead? And then we get these synergistic leadership situations unfolding and adjust It's you so rewarding to see these companies just just step up their game across the board. So that's awesome! It's all! You been great addition to the team. I know it's been nothing but outstanding feedback, which is basically what I was we're gonna give you anyway. So I remember I was left really know you that well get and I wish to, like I said, hey, you know this guy shot glass, and I was like describe as a came and this guy, like you just stud, he is very articulate. He's he looks like you know. Just like a superman type character is going to be up. There represent national front he's like lace like you, never That about me, like I'm, sorry, bro now just try to sell you johnny, so judges are shot but yeah so It's been awesome and then the latest adventure you ve gotten into

Would you dragged me into which I appreciate the is primal beef, how that how that start, yeah so that all started with move out to virginia, so we move out to this area its right to know the shadow valley. I mean it's kind of paradise were begun the blue ridge mountains on the right side, the blue ridge, mountains. On the left side, the shenandoah river runs right through the middle of our town, and it is, I don't even know if it's arguable that it's the probably the most lush region in america and when we got there again, five kids got a lotta need to feed those five kids. We bought a cow from a farmer that lived in that at one end, I had the first bite of steak from that cow, and I looked at my wife who always sits to my left at the dinner table, and I said this is hands down the best steak I've ever had in my entire life and because we have five kids and we eat a lot of beef. We went through that

how pretty quickly and then we ordered another cow, and it was from the same farmer and it was for the exact same and it really gun my wheels turn because I'm people don't have access to this. Most americans cannot do what I'm doing most americans do not I live next to this farmer. Who is one blessed. To live in the shadow valley, where those cattle were grazing. The group his pastures of all time and two. They don't have access to get that thing and put it on their plate. Every single night into me that just seemed caught almost like an american and I reached out to my bed: who lives in that town my buddy pause, rancher and then reached out to you and you said: hey here's! Here's an I'm thinkin! What do you think about this in a grateful? you were you were on board and then we started start the mechanisms,

building everything out that we needed and we Officially went live early august with primal beef and all the feedback. So far has just been incredible and there's when people think of beef they dont typically think of virginia? They think a places like montana colorado, texas, there's so much beef. That's produced in virginia the reason people dont because associated with that is its processing, so all of them Assessing that goes on for american beef is in the mid west, so cattle or getting raised in virginia historically and they're, getting shipped out to these processing facilities and holding yards historically right in the mid west and then their jessica, in mixed in the shuffle with all this other beef, but the fact is,

there are so many advantages to be fits raise in the shadow valley that other places in the country just don't have the chesapeake. Watershed is right there and it runs way inland and it creates this insane amount of ability for things to just grow and thrive. Inside of the Shenandoah valley region, and you you. Could you pair that with this little microclimate that happens because You ve got the blue ridge. Mountains on both sides and the river running right through and those pastures will grow everything all these native grasses are growing right there and that's what these cows are eating on a day to day basis and are not half and work for it. There not happened a move three miles to go, find the next by the grass

literally right in front of their faces, and you know you listen to you read accounts of these explores when they first, these western explores when they first made their way down into the shadow valley and they're talking about writing on horseback through fields of grass, where the grass is so tall that its touching their shoulders as are going through their that doesn't happen. Other parts of the country- that's only right there in this area and when you talk about what makes quality beef in really kind of comes down to two three things: how the raised, what their finished on new- talk about finishing what that means and then how their processed that the final cuts. What does it look like? So the advantages for where we or is there a grazing? The greenest pastures in the united states of america, has down all these different native grasses or just adding nutrient density to the meat tenderness the meat and

again there not having to work for it and because there are not having a work for it. There are not moving. You know three aims. As for acres three miles a day to go, find the next shrub to chew, on that translates directly to the quality of the beef and all of our cattle come from one form all of our workers come from one for, and that is not something that you're gonna find more any other place that you're trying to find beef in america you, no grocery store is zero percent chance. You know what that beef came from there, the chance that beef, not even american, there's a chance that there is a large chance that beef came in from overseas. There is also a very large chance that that cow is not even a beef cow, it's probably a dairy cow, and it's probably a derek

That is now no longer productive for dairy operations and they are going to process it and they're going to sell at a steak. That's not what you get with primal beef. You get american black angus beef! That's raised on one farm right inside the shenandoah valley in what that translates to

with quality and consistency. So if you look at even some of these other operations- and I'm not bashing of looking at the more americans that are eaten beef, that comes from a farm va better for the united states of america. So you look at a good ranch's or a butcher box, or something like that. They're helping farmers out there putting beef from american farms on people's plates that's great, but what they can't offer, as they can't offer consistency because they're coming from different farms. So you might have a stake. You really like one box in the next box. It's not going to be the same stake. We didn't want that. We wanted every single person to know when they place an order with primal beef, exactly what they're getting, and that is the fact that their first bite is going to taste just like their thousands bite, because all the cattle are raised, the exact same way on the exact same farm. So the how they're raised best

unique thing about where, where they're raised on this farm in the shenandoah valley, the next piece is how they're finished and there's different methods of a worn out on cattle here. But let's go I'm a freaking state connoisseur. As you know, yes, and when you sent me the first one I was like: okay cool ribeye. Let me see what's up, I'm like? Oh I'm in let's go, you want to close a deal with jocko, send him a friggin, shenandoah valley nearby, and let me go to town on that thing. I was like yo. This is this is special awesome, awesome and that's it what we want. Every single persons experience to be hey every decision that we make as a company is based on two factors: what's best for the animal and what's best for the customer, every single decision that we make and the finishing process for a catalyst typically there's two ways at their finished: they're gonna be either

grass fed and grass finished or they're gonna, be grass fed and then finished on, nay, some type of grain, something like that: corn barley, something like that How you finish it adds different flavour profiles to the beef right as grass finishes gonna, take very different than a grass fed and then grain finished animal, and that makes sense right there eating different different food sources. So for us, the the form that we work with that we partner with were all of our stake. All of our beef, all of our cattle come from they. He is a very unique finishing process that I, really think translates directly to why this beef is so good and so different than any other beef. One again their grazing. These pastures, that other cattle America just don't, have access to back the biggest differentiate her right there in the shed and over

Well then the finishing pieces they continue to graze. They continue to have access to grass, but now he supplements it with distillers grain that he grows on his farm and he up cycles, which is a trendy word. He cycles produce from these local markets that are around our home towns. He gets produce off of the shell, some different markets when they have to make room for new produce any gets all these fruits all of these vegetables with the the grain, that's grown on his property and he mixes all that up into a mash and that's what the cattle are finished on for about the last one hundred and eighty to two hundred days

and again they have access to plenty of grass. There stowing grass that entire time, but it's that that really lines that unique flavour to it, that extra marveling that rich beef flavour to it. So there's the first two factors right how the cattle are raised and how the cattle are finished. The third factor, which is just as important, is how to cattle or process and we partner with a processing facility out of lynchburg virginia, which is a couple hours from us called seven hills abba. And the reason that we partner with them as they are the best in the business. In my opinion, there definitely the best on the eastern seaboard they're doing things at no other place doing in one of the things that they do is the the

from the animal again is always our main concern. So they put a lot of effort into maintaining the welfare of the animal all the way up until it's time for for processing, and that translates directly to the quality of the beef, and you know as a hunter right if I put a bad shot an Elk and that Elk is stressed out, and they are grown seven hundred metres and now all of that, a joint luminous coursing through that Elks vein, the stress level of that animal. It makes the meat profile different. It toughens that meet up is the same thing with cows you know all candidates lived, very stress, free life in the shadow valley, grazing pastures and as very stress. We process of processing it's going to translate directly into the the flavour and texture, at beef, the really unique in that they do, which again is not normal the processing industry, is they dry age, everything whole carcass, so the entire carcasses dry?

aged for a minimum of fourteen days. Now we dont go over lord and do like the twenty eight extreme twentieth day extreme aging I dont personally like that profile in in beef, the flavor profile so fourteen days whole carcass is what's happening during that. Fourteen days. Is everything is breaking down? The meat is getting ten arise. All these enzymes are bred king down the flavor is getting more bold. The bee flavour is getting more bold, marveling is settling in all these great things are happening. That's not normal! most processing plants do not do that and the reason they don't do. That is space. It takes a lot of space to dry age. A carcass and it takes a lot of space to dry age carcass for fourteen days and every day there adding to the number of carcasses that they need to dry age because more beef is coming in and most of these massive processing plants at her out, mid west and other places there dealing with such

large volume that they can't do that. So what they do is a it's! A process called wet aging and wet aging. Typically, what that means is the de animal is processed, and then they start cutting into the animal right away the carcass right away, and then they take those individual cuts back, you sillam cry of salem, and then they put him on shelving units where they can organise everything, save a lot of space and then the the individual cuts of meat continue to break down because they're sitting in their own blood, basically in the blood acts as a enzyme. Basically that breaks everything down where aging there's not a saying that there's that's nice thing wrong with that, but I don't think it's anywhere near as good goodest raging in the recent people. Don't rage is you have to have space for it?

seven hills is not trying to be the world's largest processing plant there trying to be the world's best processing plant, which is exactly why we parted with them, because everything they do is designed to give the customer the best finished product that they possibly can so their dry aging the whole carcass. And then all these cuts her hand cut by butchers that work at seven hills- and this is it's an intangible thing, but it something that we really love about. These guys is their investing in that local community that processing plants was shut down for like thirty years and they brought it back to life and their providing jobs for people that have been down on their luck in lynchburg. You know for the past ten fifteen years when the economy is suffering there, giving them good paying jobs their teaching them his skill in something that I really love that they do. Is they also higher from a work release programme so people who are just gettin out of prison who made some bad decisions in their life who

No one else is wont to give these people a second chance. Seven hills is willing to give him a second chance, Bring these men in and two to hear them talk about it. It's like on day one they wanted and look at you ve, just been kind of so be down by the system that they ve been in, that they its heart and even make eye contact, and then they start to work with him. They start to give them a skill. They start to teach them how to be a butcher, which is a craft that is very quickly going away and they're, giving them value through work into employment, and they see this huge turn around were now all the sun nick and whole conversations their fitting back into society, and they have a purpose and we just went and sponsored the the lumber games dounia non near lynchburg, and I got it instead to meet some of these guys on these work released eyes and the pride that they take, in their work. We were servant burgers during this event

one of the guys that was there had just been out of prison for two weeks and he was the guy that was doing all the grind for us all of the berger meat and the sky could not stop talking to me about how much pride he took in that me. I would Put anything on your plate that I wouldn't put on my family's plate, and he could. He was so proud of the opportunity that these guys have given him so no they're producing the best finnish cuts on the eastern seaboard an outside from that they're doing something that nobody else is wont to do, which is give people a second chance, and it is a game changer for those people so passed the three big factors that really go

to be far how's, that beef raised where they raise. What are they eating? How are they finished and how's that beef process than every single thing that we did? Every decision that we made was based on giving the customer the best possible experience that they could possibly get and that's what promo beef is all about is about giving americans who don't have access to farm raise beef have never had the opportunity to really experience the difference in farm raise beef in putting that on their plates. Because, let's be honest, I sit down to dinner every single, my with my family, no matter what's goin on some people do that some people don't do that. Some people got much busier life's then I'm living right now? If there's chicken on the plate, poor family might not be sitting down together. You put a stake on that point. The whole family is sit down together and any time

that primal beef can play a hand in families coming together. The dental dinner table and breakin bread and servants and farm raise beef. That's a victory for us and that's it. We're trying to achieve with primal. Beef word and deal is the way it set up. Is you pretty, order like a box full of exactly various cots exactly whether it ground, whether its I just had hotdogs dogs yesterday freaking budget, So those are awesome and then you get you know whatever sims get some new york get some rabbis in there and it's just it's just outstanding and there's a couple of it's like sizes of boxes. You can get yes in the the reason that we went with the the structure of that the box method is just to give people the best value that we can possibly give 'em and also again, it goes back to the wanting to pay respect to that.

What we do want is to go to waste on this animal. So we designed our boxes to wear one cow, basically breaks down into a certain number of boxes that weaken then deliver we're not worried about cuts. Gettin wasted were what about cuts getting lost. We want every single cut of beef that comes offer these animals to go into the hands of americans in their family, so we ve got different boxer, means and we try to put some variety there, but we also know people like different stuff right, so you re by guy. So yes, we got, we got a box, it features. The main cut in there is revised, in that box is also going to have some other good cuts, but the staple that box is gonna, be revised and then there's some ground beef, some burger, patty, some all be francs. You like new york, strips there's a box. It features very predominantly new york strips you like four ways that should go there's a box for you. You want just ground beef. Maybe your across feed athlete that

she's two pounds of ground beef a day which bodies of my neck and pleading cross we crushed two pounds of ground before day we got a box, that's just ground beef that you can crush two pounds of every single day and will be there for you. I've got to get fired at bay and say what do I had that the patties role that makes up In writing. It is so easy you just take him out and you throw em right grow right on the trigger whatever and you ve got the best boggy I've ever had minutes later years. So I must state connoisseur now, but when I was a kid so like my mom dad both work. There were schoolteachers, my mom used to go, the butcher shot, get shopping at these boxes, full of hamburger, patties I think you're forty in their so for breakfast I would have a hamburger ana english muffin for want just have a hamburger on a piece of bread. For dinner. I have a hamburger on a bond there. You go breakfast lunch and dinner. I to this day. Don't really like breakfast routes, but I'll have a hamburger twenty four seven, but yeah

patties commonality primal beef box were G8 the owl it gives them the echo, but then I ate of the biggest investor complete So a primal beef dot com is you can get in the game you can get. I mean I don't there's nothin also say: gonna primal, beef, doc, Put your order in enjoying a club. Yet the last two things I would say is look or are we going to be a little bit more expensive than if you go to the store and buy something off your shelf? Yes, we are and we're not on to hide death fact. But what you're getting in return is you're, getting you're supporting american farmers you're getting tracing were you know that every single stake, every single burger? every single cut that comes out of the box was raised on exact, same form in the exact same way, and that's going to translate the exact same experience every single time you are serving primal beef you're supporting

american processing facilities that are doing good stuff in the lasting that you're supporting. And this is something were really proud of his. We partnered with the C4 foundation, so charlie keating t made of ours. He was killed on the deployment before me and I ran so. We turned over with seal team one right after he was killed dad is a phenomenal human being We started this company was very important to all of us to be able to give back to the community that we were involved in the mill sorry, community and there's different ways. You can do that. You know some companies give a percentage, there's! No, wrong with that, but we wanted what we to be a little bit more tangible and a little More of meaningful is the right word, but impact for direct the impact that you say, tangible, already idea quantify a quantified quantifiable. I think it's quantifiable one of our search, unfair. We wanted to the direct impact on

service members life, so I called up Mr Kerr in third, and I then what we had gone on, and I said he would you be interested in. Partnering with us, because what I would like to do is every time we sell a box, I would like to donate a cut of beef directly to a special operations force, member and their families, and he was all about it all about it in what I want to point out with that is we're. Not playing games were not hiding that costs than a box that cost of that cut is coming out of. Your pocket, jacko, he's coming out of my pocket, is coming out of deference pocket and it's coming out of polish pocket. The four of us it started our partners in primal, beef and every time you order a box, we don't need a cut directly to a special operations force. Member and their family. So not only are you support an american forms, not only eu support and a merry. In business. Not only support in your family with farm raise beef, but your

also support and seals and their families every single time. You place your brow, standing promo beef, dot com, this exodus of speed, we have to speak. We good. I mean I hit the heavy bag this morning and I think now we're up two speed europe you're not on social media? Are you know what be the bridle beavis primal, be so primal, be for probably from bereaved outcome in cigarette. And twitter primal underscore beef underscore co. Aren't you whisper primal beef twitter suspended right now I will and that I have no idea why I don't call to find out what's going on, so I don't know what's up without what its suspended. Ok so we'll figure that out yet but instagram primal underscore beef underscore co. That's war echoed

Ask any questions, or did you used the word matriculating? Ideally, wasn't it bees basically coming down? If you will kaliko, precipitating a little exactly. I would almost say they could be brother and sister words albert Irritating would kind of be up here in what you would say is the precipitation eventually matriculated down all to the alright yeah. So those are you guys, okay already got it. That's good! Oh on a real one, little bit to drown proofing ochre. So when I was in fourth green color elementary school by the way, we did drown proofing and it was a very specific process. What is drowned proofing in buds or in the seal teams was drowned. Proof of it. An evolutionary go through in first phase, where it's meant to get people to beak or actually will test people's comparability.

In the water. So what they do is you stand on the pull back? They tie your fee together, yet to put your hands behind your back. They tire hands together and then you have to jump into the pool and you have to complete a series of different events, we hands and feet. Hands and feet and tied behind your back and the first if I remember correctly, that you had to complete is a five minute float where you have to float at the top of the water for five minutes with your hands on your feet. Tied together sounds easy. Some people don't float, people are governed, buds tend to not float room, so there's different things that you have to do to maintain. Calm comment to be able to float the next. That you have to do as you have to swim. Underwater a certain number of lapse back and forth in this twenty five meter pool with your hands and arms tied together we say underwater. No, you can take breath, you can t rest correct, but you mainly uranium like summer meaning and coming up on you to take a breath

and then the lasting that you have to do, and this is like it, twenty or thirty. An evolution by seventy eight. So the swim, your hands and feet, tacitly everything everything starts to get. Ok, don't you you? You mean oh yeah I bought. This is the first new, your knighthood water and you go down to the bottom, kick off and take a bath, go back down to the bottom, and you do that's like ten minute. Yes, and then you fought for five minutes. And then you swim. Fifty yards and You have to go down you there's your mask. Yours, dive mask is on the bottom of the pool nine feet. You gotta go down and get your mask. Do you get it her teeth. You bring it, and then you gonna sit there and tread water until the instructor tells you go to the site. Air carrier, mass decided your mouth and that's the process. A process John professed abroad I will tell you this. I practice that in college I practice that in bonds before we get it. But never with my hands and feet actually tied together. Their hold them together,

When it came time, I was like no big deal, the sensation of actually having your feet and tied together vastly different experience vastly different. Which one is what what what event or whatever, which, with the hardest one the swimming work for depends on here talk into like loafer me. For me I was it since from I wasn't too concern about that, but was frustrating, was one bodies was a butterfly swimmer in college at era on a state, I believe so as I'm trying to survive and swim across the pool, literally watching him like a pauper? Fluttering later the wandering aggravate yeah like it's? No big, gracefully man remand murmur ariane, hardest barf me for that was floating. I dont float and it's all about giant breath in and then just try to hold it as long as you can quick exhale another job within the secret to floating. Is you gotta have air in your lungs as much as you can get in there? What was your hardest one for joan,

thus the approaches, the floating floating cause. You same thing like huge breath, hold it for as long as you can, and then you gotta, like to the surface drab another breathin. But what about like me like that ok one year for what you call it negative name at the point where, when you just think you gotta you gotta maneuver, he probably tread. He was probably like a little bit closer to trading and probably a little bit more out of oxygen and probably just as probably a little bit harder for a rainy day like it was proven. I can just about guarantee you that the ghetto residents a little bit different than my fourth grade drown proofing yet, but interesting nonetheless, could evolution cool good to see again. He was well mannered, always a pleasure. Sean any closing thoughts from you, just about covered everything, just thankful to beer, for to be on the team rattle awesome? Well, tat come out. Man

in fact share your lessons learnt obviously face What you did in the teams in for the navy for the nation and what are continuing to do raise your family, echelon, france, spread the word and now primal beef getting after it, helping america eat and live better thanks very much bridges and with that shot glass has left the building. So there you little bill giving after did that to get some of that, bake protein. However, sometimes you always don't have that steak available. You know what I mean. Sometimes you go around the door. If you know what I mean, that was unique. Literally those me today. So I did squats today, you and but

running a you know what he called pressed for time: respiratory and as them left Mistake those. What do you call when pre I cut them last night from last night leftover, but I come in strips boom right at them in the fridge or whatever souls like for compress retards, throw them in the microwave real quick, so I'm like trying to eat them or whatever after they came out of the microwave and I'm like bro, I'm not going to finish this whole thing right not like. I gotta go, see him saying so ate a few which was in my estimate about ten to fifteen grams of protein worth a state which is not so much for state could stick, is present post squats? Yes! and broad describe the milk easy money literally on the way out we'll fridge out. Let me in like a star like the warlike own heart, like our usability. Well, if you please, in the situation. I'd be amazed to, you'd be amazed how little time it was taken

I'm saying I deem it he's got, it was dark. Didn't you that rail of telling you didn't even more time for me to throw the other one in the microwave seem say for sure no stake. Noise, hey go energy drink, of which I have had to consented to those whom we for our part cast, but it was produced ass was talking about some good stuff? You know what mean and too deep right now, One thing is what she we be calling jacko go. A clean energy drinking, a healthy energy drink, a good for you, energy drink with what you would be going because it's not a friggin normal energy, drink man. Yes, I love I've always liked clean the word clean energy drink. I like that for whatever you here, because the question clean, I think of people throw out there right lobby we'll, be thrown out their clean. This clean that, but it does not actually have meaning all

The problem with healthy is people who are healthy and they think. Oh, it's going to taste like crap, let's literally like what the feeling it gives you yeah, it gives that feeling but I guess cleans the what we're gonna do like I like clean. Do people recognize what that means, though they do. They recognise that me tell because, let's face it, some other energy drinks have clean to be clean. There not clean. You see what I'm saying I do Susie I know this though, if you, if you are someone saying hey like men this this month, I'm eating clean. It gives me- and this is a words like They'Re- not The same feeling is if this I'm on a diet like and when they say that that that's the same is healthy, read the feeling of it sure you're, probably eating healthy, buzz, really not teasing. It's not that enjoyable, but when this eating clean up thinking. Oh youth you're eating the good stuff. You know like the stake, the freak in checking with the perfect, it'd, be saying you're, just not eating vs survey.

Eating fast food, not eating a bunch like cookies and ice cream like this, he seems agar, that's that's the russian, so maybe we'll both Queen did a clean energy. Drink didn't go, get that it all job of your dot com get hydrated greens get more, We just talk about the protein j krill super krill joint warfare does get, it does go, get it doc, fuel dot, dot, com, by the way, a fees you can get if you're in the military you get, a fees can get a hannaford vitamin shoppe gnc got the drinks and they're good at gnc and grabbed some ghosts. That's a good plan. Actually, did you hear me? sniffling a little yes, Well! Is it ok? So I felt like as you are crying. I think her not distemper, so I've been as a cold row on in a while, since you cried on the podcast. Thank you for pointing that out everything. But nonetheless, a sick me like a cold, has been kind of starting to develop recur in my body

so much are born cold worth three day called work were cold war brothers cold, like pennant, emerge. And it wasn't even called it didn't even develop into a cold that developed into what just what you heard. Just the sniffle sniffle and I don't even have sniffer it, and I was just like a like a momentary sniffle like a I sniff all. Are you broke? not rotarian right over there in a few rose, did I realize I had to do you like a heads up like in the future right country, for so, Thank you nonetheless, cold war, freaking did the job again. Super reliably by the way is allowed its power The thing is this: are you know one when a sickness was successful? If you got a missile work out or miss score, miss work that way you know like the was accepted while sickness yeah this one, not even close

I don't even consider shit. Should I work out to ever considered nook. Wasn't even a thing enough for me to for consideration, susie cold world it. Vitamin shop. Hannaford stores, wakeful shop right Agee, be down a texas! Thank you meyer in them worse. Thank you. Harris teeter lifetime Phyllis shields by the way small james, you got crossroad Jim, you ve got a digital academy, you're a soldier of your email, J, F sales the job of your backup. That's what we're doing or go to jog your backup the stuff that you need. Just have the pre work out come out. It's a little bit psycho little bits. It's a lot of it, a lot of its belt! So psycho, I told you

I quit pre workout, like maybe three released like two three years ago. Okay cause, I was like you know, pre workout like before this pre workout pre workout, is kind of like hey man. Let's face it, I just need to get frigging amped up. I don't care the cost right now. I just gotta get amped up and I need the pump in which I get it. Man cause I was there But if you remember the work, the pre work out back when they first explode onto seen, one was called an n o dash explode. What was called jacked within ii was of backwards. We are three or I dunno whatever right, it was like they had their thing their thing, but bread know I was like you don't even know. What's in that thing, like you're prolly, the various things. In that thing, soils It broke after a while, I'm like bro, I'm literally going to kill myself, because you know your tolerance goes up and then you're taking two scoops and like all this stuff, so I stopped stopped the pre work on and then for two years sosa.

Cool jack was a pre workout. You know he's not putting no freakin weirdo stuff in there, so at least they're going to be healthy. So, let's get back on the train, hell yeah I get that pump probably took like the school year would have, while we're filming that video, it has got pudding about two sips of supra brought feel that the tingley fewer eighty bra also sensitive to it places like redskin heavy. You know it's psycho, it's likely, I was even while we were filming like there's an additive me like I'm willing psycho under this you're only go like you, we filmed we captured it. I guess I needed it for like the moment right, I had to get the character, But I was in care, girls go and psycho. You don't owe me yet the reason. The jar through our convert, check it out through also orgy new sea boom. That's. Where we're getting our geese soul. We do I just so careless mendous, are bowing low, slow, cn area. He sends me a picture of two origin geese nano pearl

We, as I was colony, ran out none of her boy. Why these new pictures of turkey's, because he got just got to give mail. Black one but one white nor be duties or low. I'm telling you it's not his brow right, most, probably rattled, C4 keys. And I'm telling you inappropriately has origin is cause by. If you have again, you don't have the origin, one you're kind of like hey look, maybe ignorance is bliss, I dunno, maybe no. It's not bliss. If you've had an orgy on is not hell, but you wouldn't be angry anymore. So not blessed cause you still never in my life tat I got all this feels good. To put our own house is like one of those crap. You can give us to come on He was. I was never bless, you know It was just like tolerable seems to him, but now it it's like explicitly, Do that go to organ usa, there get genes by the way winters coming get a hoodie you need. A hoodie for winter weather,

wash genes out the delta cigarettes the black one day the black black gather up? This is not what they call it. Black wash, I think it's called black, just black coloring, the colors doesn't all the terms, but the black ones are out. I got one of whom are you got other I don't ever gonna jackson was god Rights of illegal origin, you're gonna get your american base of prince speaking remark, make its primal be from a beef dot com. You heard the deal big anyone's ever convince me more to be even eat. More stake, open fires. I can get him you're hungry yeah as face or did you eat today. I just eat those those little strips of steak or I just had a mock, but other than that it was a lean morning. Oh no wait I take. I take it back I did. I also have a more connected for staff who took a sort of chocolate, but the thing Mark is like I'd want, or maybe what is different, but I had a banana too by the way, but it will after a drink it like

literally thirty minutes later, like it's not like, I'm still for men like forty five minutes. What still for some people different, but maybe right after work, ought to maybe that its do with some still hungry and then shot glass talking about Alice grass fed fruit. It finished in like all this stuff and the quality in the development of the flavor. Like all this stuff steak, ribeye is all this stuff I was on like seeing like I was. Seeing stakes I would, by the way you ve, probably stock object. A jackal store dot com? Yes, sir, but some some good stuff intercostal by the way so short locker bone were rolling, that a new disease I got the one I was going to say: I was going to send it to you, but I dunno, I didn't it's like a There are points that yet I sometimes feel, like I think, oh he'll, probably like this one and I'll, send it okay. What is it it's like that? Yeah?

but after a while, I'm linking maybe like, maybe okay. So it's like a you know. The tnc surf the yin yang up right to that, but one of them has you facing the swim as the eagle facing the other area of what an eagle molly american embargo hook. So do you know what that is for? No, I have no idea back discipline in freedom. Discipline. In this way, going this way and then the other one is freed up the evil slick freedom anyway seat. I've got plans what is it like? A cartoon drawing art, it's art- will call it art, yeah yeah, cause effect graphic design. Does it look like you could be a harley davidson sure if you like an eagle and it's a photo and does not teensy, We think that union thing can be lonesome but you have to see it to appreciate and guess what a bunch of people are going to see it and, I believe, are going to appreciate it all right now. Are you shirt law? It's called

walker, if you're not sure locker is on jocko store, it's one of the things on chocolate or chocolate stores where you can get other shirts discipline equals freedom, good standby. At some that's gonna like now, also we have. The Sherlock was, is a new shirt. Every man different designs, one of them in which is the indian discipline ecosphere sure it's a bunch of other ones anyway, check it out. Chocolate store can subscribe to this progress in front of a jackal underground since february you'd Eugenio get psychological warfare good afoot Canvas dot com, get something called a hang on. Your wall get the books that we have a written, a bunch of books, get em specially kids books, talk rather was shot glass. Like he's all about these got five kids are war, your kids to the to the bone right. This issue also like him. You wish. I would you just like those jujitsu. You know somewhere around. You he's acknowledges not, as I do check it out. He found one and now he's got his just goods. Go train, get kids work, it works, making dragged about face by hack worth just get these books. Extry egg asked

front. We have a leadership insulting the color caliber of people that we have a national front shot glass is one of those people. We will help your company get through their leadership issues and turn them into leaders. You probably haven't gotten your leadership team trained to be leaders. If I just thought they could figure it out. Why can't you have to learn it? I guess you can figure out, like you can figure out how to play basketball. You can figure out play guitar, but think of how much you can figure out a digital but think about how much extra time it takes. If some, If you have to learn it yourself, as opposed to someone coming in and saying hey, let me show you how to do that. She would put your foot over there on that on that arm. Lock. It's true so learn dot com. We also have all mine training, academy, extreme ownership, dark com common therein learning, skills. These are skills we were, You learn these skills. That's my goal. Is the teacher

Many people, these leadership skills as we possibly can check it out. Please extreme ownership, dot com that the online academy. Also we have. If you want to help service members, active and retired you and helps gold star families check out MARC Lee's, mom mama leash get a charity organization, it's unbelievable what they do to help out. Also you heard sean mentioned the c four foundation. You can check that out as well outstanding organization and, of course, heroes and horses, dot org where Micah. Thank you, taking our veterans into the wilderness, so they can reconnect with their sole and if you connect with us, Sean can be found. Only through primal with no social media for sean legit credit

but now he's got to have primal beef, prime beef dot com and instagram and twitter. I dunno why his twitter was on frequent shut down interest. Primal underscored beef underscore co. Echo is adequate. Charles, I'm jackal. Just watch out for the algorithm. Just get a monster. They'll just grab you and yielded waste. Your life asked what will happen thanks once again to show glass for everything you have done for the nation for the navy for the teams, thanks for what you're doing right now at echelon, fraught with your family and, of course, primal, beef. Getting people fed with the good stuff. Thank you and thanks all our armed forces out there on the front lines, protecting us and our way of life from all enemies, foreign and domestic, and thanks to our police and law enforcement. Firefighters, paramedics, gmt dispatcher. Rational offshore border patrol secret service and all first responders, thank you for

acting us and our families here on the home front and everyone else out, there. Listen you get to decide get to decide what you do get to decide who you are you get decide to stay on the path at you get to decide. If you're fall off it you get to decide when and where you go and when things are truly be and your control you get to decide how you will respond to those thinks it's on you. So don't fall off the path don't fall for short term gratification, think strategic stay on the path, and you do that every day, but going out there and getting after it and until next time this echo and jacko out.