This is Jocko podcast number 422 with echo Charles and me Jocko when like good evening echo good evening. So You've heard me talk about asking earnest questions Doing that is to try and understand what someone else is thinking without putting them into Defensive mind without making them suspicious without flaring up their ego a bunch of things going on Speaking, asking earnest questions is an indirect approach of trying to understand other people's ideas. Open-minded approach it's not like a scam. It's not a little trick If you do it correctly, it shouldn't cause someone to become defensive. In fact, if you do it correctly

Opposite should happen. Good, earnest questions that you ask other people should open up their mind, open up their mentality. their mentality. To where they actually want to explain their viewpoint so you can better understand them. That's what an earnest question should do. Asking learners questions is not easy. Mm-hmm. Some people screw it up. If you aren't careful, your questions can become leading questions. They can become accusatory questions. Blaming questions. Why did you do that, right? Yeah So I was thinking about the various approaches that that you utilize and I've trust me I've tried to help a lot of people with this and one of the things that I thought about when I thought about questioning was questions that are used in a particular environment And that is the environment of interrogation so in order to get better at

asking questions I wanted to look at some interrogation methods I know that when I got trained actually I never Trained as an interrogator other than like real rudimentary kind of what they call battlefield interrogation which is not remotely a trained interrogator. Gator Probably I learned more from going through our survival evasion resistance and escape school where they teach you the various methods that you're gonna be Interrogated that's your school. See your school. Yep I'm gonna refer to as your school. - Sure. - Chili, it's cold. - Cold, that's what you-- You know, it's down here in Southern California, but you know the mountains up by Julian. Yeah, but going up to that area Yeah, yeah, that's where we were at. It was chilly in winter time. Yeah, and that's part of the part of the training Yeah, that's part of the training Wait, so what he's sorry to interrupt what it so you just said you're not a trained interrogator But you just learned the basic stuff. Yeah, like what like what's what's some basic interlude? We're about to get into

So what we're about to dive into is we're about to dive into the Army's FM 34 TAC 52 Intelligence interrogation and I think it's just a good framework to Expand our knowledge in the field of asking questions Make sure that when you're asking questions, they're not accusatory questions. They're not blaming questions. They're not leading questions Make sure that we're building And we're building relationships with people instead of undermining trust and undermining relationships I think you're gonna see that this is just, this is just a good familiarity that's gonna. Help us interacting with other people and give us some things to think about when we're interacting with other people here's what I did notice about you with your asking earnest questions is your tone and obviously I can't read your mind even though I do believe that you're asking these questions for these reasons like you just said but as far As the presentation goes, it's like tone is such a massive thing. Like how you say these things, because really technically.

You can say the same exact words under two different circumstances and they mean completely different things Well, they're gonna land different like, you know people Like what was your thought like let's say you did something and I and I'm gonna ask a question about it, right? Ernest versus freaking condescending or something like this In other words, what was your thought process? There's two ways I could say that. What was your thought process? You're just so dumb, you know? So condescending. Or it'd be like, oh, you know, what? You know, what was your what was your part was your thought process on that on that one right there? Yes, you had that a little bit you couldn't say the exact same word Probably could, but we'd have to work on it a little bit. Like, usually if I was, I'd be like, hey, what was your process, what was your thought process on that? Like, that's, that's. Right what you got to do is you got to put yourself this is this is why it's important that it's not a trick

Because even if I'm like well Jocko said to ask earnest questions and I don't know what the hell echo was thinking But since Jocko said ask her his questions, I'm just gonna try and ask her his questions You're gonna see through that most likely you're gonna see through that I think so But if I truly like hey, what was your thought process when you did that? So you're saying like that's like I really want to know. Yep. Hey, what's your opposed to I think you're an idiot what was your thought process like that's yeah it's just a subtle difference bro so I'll do that with my kids where, so I added and I remember a couple times there's more, with my daughter where I wouldn't, I wouldn't just say, what was your thought process? I'd be like, hey, were you thinking, I would go like one step further and try to. Imagine what was this 10 year old girl thinking under these circumstances? What would be like, not even necessarily a bad thought, like what would be a lie? that a 10 year old would think that isn't terrible. So we're like, hey, what was your thought?

Did you think that you were just gonna do this and then like, hey, you know, no harm, no foul, kind of a thing. So you kinda like throw in there like, hey, I kinda understand, I think I understand. On what you were thinking, but let's revisit it and let's kind of improve it kind of a thing, kind of a tone, you know? And bro, it worked perfectly. Like she didn't feel like she was in trouble. She was like, oh, just, you know, just exposing everything kind of a thing. It's like cool. - So you have a little bit of methodology, right? - A little bit, a little bit. Book right here. This is a FM. Like I said FM 3452 intelligent intelligence interrogation from that department of the head Department of the Army. This is actually from 1992 this copy that I got right here and it's got a whole it's got Bunch of sections rock going through the whole thing obviously because it starts off Often times the army does this they're gonna take you like from ground zero almost like you don't even speak the English language and they're gonna teach you something they don't do that but they go through the millet like this first

Chapters military intelligence missions and intelligence preparation the battlefield. So like what really war fighting war? or fighting doctrine, the intelligence cycle, intelligence disciplines, a bunch of various. Its definitions, articles of the Geneva Convention. So there's a lot of stuff, look, if we were gonna have a military interrogation, we'd go through it all. Uh, the next one. X section is about composition and structure, and this isn't like composition and structure of sentences or questions. Operations Center and what it looks like at the division and what it looks like at the core level and what it looks at the Of course, so there's a bunch of administrative information. administrative information and then you Into the interrogation process. It starts off with collection priority so what do you want.

Priorities are screening which is just like an administrative process because the the army has a process for everything the army You don't play around so they've got a process like you capture someone. Here's what you do with them Here's the first form that they fill. Here's how you label this so go Through that whole thing and and the planning and preparation is really when it's talking about the plammer planning and preparation it's the logistics of interrogation Mm-hmm but chairs in the room, you know, this is what the army does we know for in if you have this Person you need this size desk and this type of notebook like it's gonna give you the details they live nothing to chance and then we get into the approach phase and that's what we're going to get into which we'll get into the approach phase the questioning phase and termination phase that's kind of what we're going to cover today Important couple things here that it starts off with so now we're gonna jump into it the sources background world.

What's the source's age and level of military or civilian experience? Hey, isn't it good if you're going to talk to someone? You're gonna ask them? Some questions that you know a little bit of background about them and the source is the source of person that you're in this case Yeah They they they use a couple different terms. I'll call them out as well We get to but young the source in this situation is the person that's giving you information The interrogation how much time is available? So that's giving you some basic stuff and then the interrogator himself what abilities to? He have that can be brought into place. So now we'll talk about you. Mmm. What do you have? What weaknesses do you? You have so you got to kind of know yourself it goes through that interrogators questions question should question about the sources, time permitting, as part of the preparation. It's just trying to help you figure out what you're doing. You're out, you wanna know about as much about a person as you can before you start drilling them with questions.

So this is true if I'm gonna go talk to an employee that I don't really know very well And he's one of your employees. I might go. Hey echo. What's what's their temperament? Like how long have they been here for do they are they good at their job? Do they show up late like I want to get some familiarity so I know what I'm dealing with and that's an important part of sort of setting the stage. And you, goes through some other. EPW's is a number is a term that they used to call that they use in this book It's enemy prisoner of war or they see or they say detainee. So one of those two Alright now we're gonna get to the sort of the brass tacks of it that starts off with the approach phase At the initial contact, a business-like relationship should be maintained. EPW or detainee assumes a cooperative attitude, a more relaxed atmosphere may be advantageous.

Carefully determine which of the various approaches, approach techniques to employ. Regardless of the type of EP-- Or detainee and his outward personality, he does possess weaknesses which if recognized-- by an interrogator can be exploited. These weaknesses are manifested in personality traits such as speech, mannerisms, facial Expressions physical movements excessive perspiration and other overt indications that may vary from EPW to detainee or detainee. You got to pay attention to what you're dealing with out of the gate and very good point is Like a business like when you meet someone you ever had somebody or you ever seen somebody tell a joke at a bad time Yes, sir. I have it's it's awkward Super awkward. Have you ever watched The Office? Yeah, there's a lot of scenes like where Michael Scott's telling jokes and And the--

No one is in the mood for jokes. - Yes sir. - I told this, I-- The worst ones I've seen and this is why I have a rule I have a rule if you're presenting do not put Joe On slides so if you got a PowerPoint presentation don't put any jokes on there Because you don't know what's going on in the room What that room is gonna feel like you don't know what the attitude is gonna be in there So I was traveling the world with a four star general who is going to a bunch of different out Outstations special operations outstations and we went into one and it was in Africa and it was in Djibouti Africa and they had taken a map of Djibouti and Super imposed it over a map of someone's ass. Oh, yeah, and it said welcome to Djibouti

sir This general was not He wasn't he was very PG rated and matter of fact he might as he might as might very well been g-rated. Yeah He didn't find this funny And these guys couldn't they didn't pick up on it quick. Mmm, and by the time they picked up on it Was too late because the slide was already up there like they started to realize that he was a more serious guy And it wasn't gonna be a funny funny joke joke situation then clicked to the slide and says de booty and it It was it was not good Let's always begin with professionalism. Mmm Not not being a jerk not being cold, but just begin with professionalism. Just business like hey good to meet you or whatever when you're dealing with another human being.

From a psychological standpoint the interrogator must be cognizant of the following behaviors people tend to talk especially after harrowing experiences. Show deference when confronted by superior authority. Rationalize acts about which they feel guilty. To apply or remember lessons they may have been taught regarding security if confronted. With a disorganized or strange situation. So giving you all these little hints. Right, you get someone that's just something crazy. Happened there's a chance they want to talk about it. There's also a chance that they don't. You get people that kind of turn inward and also just showing authority, superior authority can kind of get people to comply. See that's one of the the one of the.

Things about police officers is 99% of the time when they tell somebody Something from that position of authority and they they kind of bark those orders at somebody people listen to them. It's the 1% of the time that someone doesn't listen the day they can't escalate anymore. They don't know what to do Mmm continuing on people generally cooperate with those who have control over them attack next Attach less importance to a topic about which the interrogator demonstrates identical or related experience or knowledge. So if you act like you already know it, or you act like you're familiar with it, people will be kind of more down to talk about it. Appreciate-- And exoneration from guilt that's a big one right there, right? It's kind of like you just talked about with your daughter You're like, oh you didn't do anything wrong. But you know, I could see hey actually

this happens. Resent having someone or something they respect belittled, especially by someone they dislike. Again, just important thing to keep in mind. Keep in mind. So if you belittle something that they care about, you're gonna be not getting a good relationship going with them. - Yeah. Respond to kindness and understanding during trying circumstances. That makes sense. Be nice to people people. Cooperate readily when given material rewards such as extra food or luxury items for their personal comfort. Okay again Being nice to people goes a long way. Treating people with respect goes a long way. That's like when you're dealing with a valet dude. You know, or a waitress or a hostess. And you just be nice.

And they'll be nice to you which means you might get a table before this other person that came in and act like an asshole Yeah, it's true I Used to be a valet by the way, did you yes, sir? Well, Aloha Tower. No, okay Yeah, check. Did you run? Yeah, get a run. Mm-hmm. How long would it take to get a car? Don't know two minutes. Okay, give her Yeah, it's good good gig for sure. What's the nicest car you ever valet all that you remember? Probably those Mercedes cars. Mm-hmm. Yeah That is the film Lambos or anything like this. No, no, not that I can no I would have remembered that but yeah No, probably Mercedes-Benz you get a lot of those for sure Oh a lot of people have Lambos in Hawaii No, it's very or even like super nice cars super cars will like these exotic type cars very rare

Honolulu there's a few here and there for sure but you know, have you ever been to Malibu, California? Yeah There's like really nice cars. Yeah everywhere. Yeah, it's kind of it fits the stereotype of what you kind of think Yeah, I I was with my son. We were surfing up there He was like 10 or whatever and we just like go to the gas station for a little while Cuz McLaren's are calling Lamborghinis are coming in. Yeah, it's pretty I did notice that. Yeah, I've been up there a few times Actually, one was for that, I think he might have been there. It was like the black belt surf paddle. I went up there. I did some video. That's where I lost my drone my first drone from the crash did In the water. He was gone forever. - At the boo. - Yeah, it was bad. But yeah, Malibu, hell yeah. - Check. You're nice to the valet dude. He's probably gonna take care of you a little bit more. Yes There's a little thing just a little note. Yeah

And you know what you're being a better human being Next rate. Oh, interrogators do not run an approach by following a set pattern or routine. Each interrogation is different, but all All interrogation approaches have the following things in common. They establish and maintain control over the source and interrogation. Establish and maintain rapport between the interrogator and the source. Manipulate the sources emotions and weaknesses to gain his willing cooperation. The only one that I kind of... Think when it says establish and maintain control over the source and the interrogation I think sometimes at least showing that person that they have some control is a good way to get people to talk more. - Yeah. - Right?

Yeah, pretty much in the, you know, use the word cooperation, where that word kind of goes deep as far as like how it feels. So you know how like, you know how you watched your crime shows and all this stuff, they show the footage of the interrogation when the guys Like all night. I remember thinking I like watching those things. Yeah, I like watching the just for the this very reason you ever watch the nevermind crime shows I'm talking like well I guess maybe you're talking you're talking about Actual interrogations. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Real interrogations. - I have the footage of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, forensic files. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I always thought that when the guy is so nice to the guy, like getting him coffee and lighting and stuff, like being nice, saying, Hey, we're doing this together. It's not me against you, it's me with you, kind of feel. I remember thinking, Bro, if I was a criminal, I'd... Enjoy that part of it. I might even freaking give up all the goods just because not not consciously but I'm just saying I can see how that would work because a lot of times

Like a criminal, like if you're on the run, and this is just what I heard 'cause I'm not a criminal, but when you're on the run that stress like gets to you. So there's I guess a part of a criminal that's kind of relieved that they got caught sometimes. So man, if you're, if you get. And you're getting in target and the guy's cool about it, at least you can be like, yeah man, freaking, I've been feeling stressed. Like a little session, you see what I'm saying? So yeah, if you're like cooperating with them, I can see how that could work man. That would work on me I'll tell you that so they call that soft to sell. Yeah. Yeah soft selling and I went through seerskull the soft sell got me more than the hard sell did yeah like a wall them slapped me around and all That I just was like more firm and not talking. Yeah, but when they caught off guard like the first time that someone was nice to me I was like oh and it's not like I gave up information but what do they do they get you to they get you to like eat something And then they got you on video that they're feeding, you know, see we're taking perfect care of and you know, they say oh You is there anything we can?

do for you and you're like, if you say, yes, you can do this and then you're giving them an opportunity to turn that into propaganda, so you say, no, I'm okay, but you said it in kind of a nice way and they said it in a nice way, so it sounds like they're taking it. Definitely harder to deal with it's counterintuitive Because when someone's nice to you you're nice to them, and that's just what they're taking advantage of and that's what they're saying right here Yeah, yeah, you gotta watch out for that. Yeah fully It goes on to say the source may or may not be aware He is providing the interrogator with information about enemy forces some May be complete when the source begins to answer questions other may have to others may have to Be constantly maintained or reinforced throughout the interrogation The techniques used in an approach can best be defined as a series of events not just verbal conversation between the interrogator and source the exploitation Of the source's emotion can be harsh or gentle in application.

Some useful techniques used by interrogators are hand and body movements, actual physical contact, such as a hand. On the shoulder for reassurance and then my personal favorite silence It goes through to talk about Stern posture. In the Stern, you can use either Stern or sympathetic. The interrogator keeps the EPW or detainee at attention. The aim is to make the EPW or detainee keenly aware of his helpless and inferior status. Interrogators use this posture with officers, NCOs, and security-conscious enlisted men. Sympathetic posture the interrogator addresses the EPW is in a friendly fashion striving to put him at ease the posture is commonly used in interrogating an older younger EPW so that's what we're talking about What I found is when they use these two kind of, it's classic good cop, bad cop, right?

Guy comes in as a jerk to you. They usually do bad cop first. Mmm Oh, yeah, cuz so the good cop is kind of like an element of relief. Yeah total element of relief That's what that's what feels Good. Frightened persons regardless of rank will invariably talk in order to relieve tension. They hear a sympathetic voice in their own tongue. So there you go. That's what you just said There are many variations of these basic postures goes into some of those those. Interrogator must not waste time in pointless discussions or make promises. He can't keep for example The interrogators granting political asylum and it goes in this whole thing why you can't do that This is an interesting thing you were talking about your daughter earlier. Fake promises. If you are not, if you make fake promises as a parent, you just, you're doing a terrible job. You're doing a terrible job.

If you make a promise you need to keep that promise even if it's bad like, you know, why would you make a bad promise? Yeah, like a threat, you know like that kind of stuff like hey, I probably will get see here's the thing Don't make a threat that you're not gonna back up Which sucks when you're a parent because you're like because you know, like we're supposed to go to whatever jiu-jitsu this afternoon Okay, so let's go surfing you like if you don't do this right now work. We're not going surfing Yeah, and then they don't do it and then you can't go surfing *laughs* I know you're gonna screw yourself Little bit though, so you'd never make threats. Yeah, you know only threaten things that you don't want to do it This is interesting, right? Under no circumstances will the interrogator betray surprise at anything the EPW might say. This is a good one to have. This is a good one to have. Not acting surprised when people tell you things is like such a powerful thing, especially when they're trying to tell you something.

You when they're trying to catch you they're trying to get you and you got Roger that or he's not Head. The reason that same so what they're saying is If you start telling me something and I just act like I'm not surprised like yeah, I already yeah, of course you were In this position and you had this many guys with you, if I act like it's no big deal, you'll kinda keep talking. But if I'm like, Wait, what? - Yeah. - Then you go, Oh, shit, I'm giving away information. Yeah, and you kind of alienate the real like him out of the relationship, you know Like that cooperative thing I was talking about that feeling like you're kind of like I guess for lack of a better term bonding With the guy on a certain level and you start seeing this outlandish stuff that's you know you lose them a little bit so you kind of jam up the relationship but from a leadership perspective

When things are getting a little bit wild and you're just like yeah Roger Yeah, and your main thing is just to nod your head and say Roger that - Mm-hmm. That is so much better than bad news coming in and you go Ah one of those reactions got me kid like any of those things they all suck. They're all bad Getting control of your emotions and not overreacting when you hear something is a Powerful skill that can't be underestimated at all The interrogator encourages any behavior that deepens rapport and increases the flow of communication. At the same time, the interrogator must discourage any behavior that has the opposite effect. We want to have a conversation. That's what we're doing It goes into a thing here about how to develop rapport Rapport must be maintained throughout the interrogation not only in the approach phase again. What's interesting?

About this is I say look if I'm gonna interact with another person I want to improve our relationship like if I have Interact with you and you're my peer or you're my supporting or you're my superior and by the end of our interaction I want our relationship to be stronger. Mmm, so that's what We're doing with this rapport. So when I'm doing something to you that's making our relationship worse. It's a problem I don't want to be doing that thing Now some people might have probably thinking right now like oh you never would tell echo that doesn't make sense well what I say is You if you present your plan to me and I say that doesn't make sense What just happened our relationship to go up or down went down a little bit if I said hey echo Not sure I fully understand this. Can you explain this to me and just let me understand the the details here Yeah, did our relationship to get better or worse better got a little bit better. I'm curious about what you Your plan. I want to know more about it. And I'm essentially doing the same thing. Yeah, asking the exact same thing.

We want to develop rapport depending on the situation and request The source may have made an interrogator can also use the following to develop rapport offer realistic incentives such as immediate comfort items like coffee or cigarettes, a Term meal or short term like a meal, a shower, or send a letter home. A long term rate brief. Repatriation political asylum You can also this is an interesting one feign Similar to those of the source. It's a good one. Oh yeah I know yeah I use Freezing out there right now, isn't it? You know, yeah. Yeah, we're kind of the same. We're kind of bros. You've watched first blood Affirmative. Yes, so they got this

Backwards in first blood what part the well the whole reason the movie happens because you know John Rambo's rolling in they come in and they just start beating them verbally the whole deal not bonding with them at all. In fact They didn't give him a shower, they put him in a room and hosed him down with cold water and you know it was cold over there in Seattle or wherever they were. Spokane, I believe. Yeah, okay, alright, alright. *sigh* Show concern for the source through use of voice vitality and body language. Source rationalizes guilt. That's an interesting one. Kind of like, again, I'm not trying to say you're interrogating your daughter. - Right. - But when you're like, oh yeah, you know, I can see why that happened. - Yeah, fully. - It's a good way to do it. Help them rationalize their guilt show kindness and understanding toward the source's predicament. It's a good one Exonerate the source from guilt this really isn't your fault, but what happened? Shit.

Flatter the source Isn't it isn't it interesting that flattery is like the cheapest little easiest thing, but it actually works Yeah, it is right. It's like so cheap. How much does it cost to say like oh you I like the way you handled that Or whatever. - I think the way you handled that, that's a little bit more advanced, Flattery, to be honest with you. And it's way more effective. - Talk to me, bro, what's up? - I've probably been thinking about, 'cause like, what's, the real superficial. Flattery is like the the obvious compliment, you know, like hey like freaking nice shirt or you know, freaking hey, you're looking strong You know like that kind of stuff like superficial stuff But when you and I got note of this like a long time ago if you flatter someone's like decision-making it's way better

Cause it's more like it's less obvious. It takes more caring kind of a thing or attention, you know, kind of a thing. But, but yeah, so when you're. Like hey, I like the way you handled that. That's not like, you know, like if someone's like, oh. Looking, I don't know, strong, looking buff or whatever. You're like, yeah, cool, you know. I like the way you handled that. That means you're paying attention to the way I did stuff. You know, which is way deeper, way more effective. Flattery come letting go Charles Moving on a little bit after having established control and rapport the interrogator continually assesses the source to see if the approaches and later the questioning techniques chosen in the planning and preparation Phase will indeed work approaches chosen in planning and preparation are tentative and based on

Sometimes scanty information available from documents, cards, and personal observation. We're trying to figure out how to approach this person, but it may change. It may change. This may lead the interrogator to select approaches which may be totally incorrect for obtaining this source's willing cooperation. Careful assessment of the source is critical to avoid wasting valuable time in the approach phase the questions Can be mixed or separate. If, for example, the interrogator has tentatively chosen a-- Love of comrades approach he should ask the source questions. Like how did you get? With your fellow squad members. If the source answers they were all very close and work well as a team the interrogator can use this approach. And be reasonably sure of its success. However, if the source answers, They all hated my guts and I couldn't stand any of them, the interrogator should quickly. Abandon that approach and ask some non pertinent questions to give himself time to work out a new approach

So keep an open mind on your approach as you're going as you're communicating and it talks About these transitions, how you got to transition smoothly and logically to guide you. Conversation and Especially if you have to go from one one approach to another poking and hoping in the approach Alert the prisoner to ploys and will make the job more difficult Isn't it interesting that you can just kind of put someone at ease and they'll talk. Mm-hmm. You know what echelon front we'll go into a company and they're almost always surprised when we go and talk to the frontline troops what we find out. Mm hmm. To the head shed and say oh you know here's a problem with your Line and they'll be like, huh who told you that really go, you know, we won't give names or whatever But we'll say oh, you know

Let this shift talk the talk us through what the short falls were they can't believe or never mind the manufacturer They'll be like, oh this person doesn't get along with this person and this person's not aligned with that. Like everybody knows. And how do you do that? Oh you just go and say hey how's it going? You start talking to them. They wanna talk about what's happening at their work To ten hours a day. Yeah, right someone comes in and it's truly curious. They're like oh, I got it. I got a whole Drama going on yeah, you ever get when someone somebody tells you about a movie, then they got to tell you the whole plot and everything You know what I mean? Yeah yeah, the idea of Being listened to like is there seems very compelling you know where? Especially if you even get an inkling just in life that people just don't understand my position.

What I'm doing, what I'm feeling, how much I know, how much I know, the whole deal man. And someone's going to come in and actually listen, they care. Oh, I would. - Well tell it, yeah. So that makes sense. - Yeah, no it's the way it works. Fast forward a little bit here. Recognize the breaking point. Every source has a breaking point, but until... PeriGator never knows what it is until it's been reached. There are, however, some good indicators the source is near his breaking point or has already reached it. For example, if during-- the approach the source leans forward with his facial expressions indicating an interest in the proposal or Is more hesitant in his argument he's probably nearing his breaking point the interrogator must be alert to recognize these signs paying attention to what the

persons doing Once the interrogator determines the source is breaking He should interject a question pertinent to the objective of the interrogation if the source answers it the interrogator Can now move into the questioning phase. If the source does not answer or box it answering. The interrogator must realize the source was not as close to the breaking point as he thought in this case the interior Must continue with his approach or switch to an alternate approach or Questioning technique and continue to work until he feels the sources near its breaking point This is something you get that you'd see in those videos those police videos when they were doing the interrogation and like at a certain point they just They're done and just like explain the whole deal. Yeah, the whole deal comes out At this point it's important to note the amount of time spent With a particular source depends on several factors the battlefield situation expediency with which the surprise

Commanders requirements need to be at answered and the sources of willingness to talk so it could take an hour 20 minutes 3 days 10 days you know Approach combinations With the exception of the direct approach no other approach is effective by itself. And this is a One thing that's very interesting about this whole thing is the whole it talks about the direct approach being like Especially when someone's a little bit frazzled the best approach which is interesting because I always talk about the indirect approach Mm-hmm. I think the whole idea of people being frazzled and Dynamic situations, they're mentally set to just get asked what's happening and talk. Interrogators use different approach techniques or combine them into cohesive logical technique.

Transitions security or sincerity logic and conviction almost always make a strategy work the lack of will unday outedly looms to dooms it to failure. Some examples of. Combinations are direct approach, futility, and then incentive. Than love of comrades direct fear up mild then incentive So they're giving you approaches and how you can take these approaches and we'll get to what these are Okay, so we got direct incentive emotional Increased fear up and then pride and ego The first one is direct approach the interrogator asked direct questions directly related to information sought making no effort to conceal the interrogations purpose the direct approach always the first to be attempted Is used on EPWs or detainees who the interrogator believes will cooperate. Do you think the person's

going to cooperate, you can go ahead and just start firing away on them. Approach is simple to use and it's possible to obtain the maximum amount of information in the minimum amount of time it is frequently employed at lower echelons when the tactical situation precludes selecting other techniques and where the Pw's or detainees mental state is one of confusion extreme shock So that that's I think why it may sense you've got someone that's kind of a junior person they're they're meant State is kind of disrupted. They're from the lower echelons of the organization. You go and you're like, they know what's going on. The way the world is like you've just been captured. You're cuffed, you've had a bag over your head for 20 minutes, now you're in a room, a guy pulls the bag off your head.

Jihadist you're ready to talk You're like yo, I'll tell you what's up If you're a jianas that person's not gonna talk so direct questions or not it doesn't matter. They're not gonna say anything Direct Approaches Most Effective. Statistics show in World War II it was 90% effective. Vietnam and operations urgent fury just cause and desert storm is 95% effective. I haven't seen that kind of effect. Like we would do what we call battlefield interrogation, which is you capture someone you're gonna ask them questions right now Where are the weapons? Hmm? It's pretty good But it's not great Mmm, the jihadists were a little bit you could tell the jihadist they wouldn't say anything like it's true like Jihadist like a foreign fighter. They weren't saying shit - Yeah.

So yeah, you capture someone that's just Lower echelon not really in the game Yeah, some a couple other ready to tell you what's going what's happening? What's happening? So that's the first one, direct approach. Again, I think if you're talking about normal interaction with other human beings, direct approach. You need to use caution. Matter of fact, I would say you don't use direct approach, you escalate toward the direct approach over time. I think you'll find that seldom will you make it all the way to the direct approach. Hmm. Next one is incentive approach. The incentive approach is based on the application of inferred.

Discomfort upon the EPW who lacks willpower the EPW may display fondness for certain luxury items such as candy fruit or cigarettes this fondness provides the interrogator with a positive means of rewarding the EPW for cooperation and truthfulness as he may give or withhold such comfort items at his discretion Cost must be employed and it just goes to talk about that. You can't It talks about the Geneva Convention like you can't infringe on the rights that they have And there's only so much you can do to make them uncomfortable so That's that The EPW might be tempted to provide false or inaccurate. This is one of the warnings about it false or inaccurate Information to gain desired luxury. So if you're like, I'll give you a cigarette, if you tell me this, they're gonna tell you something. And that's ultimately when you talk about torture, is torture's ineffective because.

People will just say whatever they gotta say to get it to stop. And so what they find over time is that torture doesn't really work. Here's the emotional approach through EP From a T-E-W observation, the interrogator can often identify dominant emotions which motivate. The motivating emotions might be greed, love, hate, or anger. Revenge or others the interrogator employees and emotional ruses in applying pressure to the EPW's dominant emotions. For example, this technique can be used On the EPW who has a great love for his unit and fellow soldiers. The interrogator may take advantage of this fully by telling the EPW that by providing pertinent information, he may shorten a war or battle in progress and save many.

Of his comrades lives but his refusal to talk might cause their deaths. This places the burden on the EPW or detainee and may motivate him to seek relief through cooperation. If you understand the emotions of the person you're talking to you can do a better job of communicating with them and getting them to to you like what do they care about emotional love approach Usually involves some incentives such as communication with the source's family or a quicker end to the war to save his comrades lives A good interrogator will usually orchestrate some futility with an emotional love approach to hasten the Sources reaching the breaking point. The other end of the spectrum is emotional hate approach. The emotional hate approach. On any genuine hate or possible desire for revenge the source may feel the interrogator must ascertain exactly what it is the source may hate so the emotion

To override the source's rational side. The source may have negative feelings about his country's Jeehm, immediate superiors, officers in general, or his fellow soldiers. E-dogs, they got something negative to say about their officers. Tell you that much that son of a bitch put me here They made bad decisions The emotional hate approach can be used more effectively by drawing out the sources negative emotions with questions that elicit thought provoking Response for example, why do you think they allowed you to be captured? Why do you think they left you to die? Gonna fuel that emotion get people to talk Many sources have great love for their country, but may hate the regime and control the emotional hate approach is most effective with the Immature or timid source who may have no opportunity up to this point for revenge or never had the courage to voice his feelings. Okay

Next we get into the fear up approach. Fear up approach. The exploitation of a source's pre-existing fear during the period of capture or. Interrogation this you'll see I don't know if your kids are old enough for this yet. Hmm, but you'll definitely see some Pre-existing fear where they get busted doing something, you'll see that look in their eyes, and it's real easy to work the fear up approach. You know what I'm saying? Uh, the approach works best with the young inexperienced sources or sources who exhibit a greater than normal amount of fear Nervousness again you deal with a straight jihadi. They're they're they don't care You get you can almost tell well you could tell like a jihadi the look on their

face they're not gonna say anything and someone that's not really in the game or is like a junior person they're scared and they're ready to talk so you can fear up that person And it's gonna have some effect. A source's fear may be justified or unjustified. For example, a source who's committed a war crime may justifiably fear prosecution punishment. By contrast, a source who has been indoctrinated by enemy propaganda. May unjustifiably fear that he will suffer torture, death in our hands if captured. That's what happened with a lot of the Japanese.

Japanese in World War two they they were told that they would just be slaughtered and Killed that we took no prisoners and so they fought to the death. It was worked out pretty good for him But when we capture them, they thought they were gonna die anyways So the first approach is fear up within parentheses harsh In this approach the interrogator behaves an overpowering Manner with a loud and threatening voice the interrogator may even feel the need to throw objects across the room to heighten the sources implanted feelings of fear great care may must

Taken when doing this so any acts would not violate the prohibition on coercion and threats contained in the Geneva Convention article 17 So, you know, you're gonna start hucking stuff around the room you ever done that no I'm trying to think if the last time I threw something I Think I've thrown like a toy or something trying to make a point type scenario. Yeah I've I did that with my Girlfriend when I was super young. Mm-hmm. What'd you do? What'd you throw? I didn't throw it, I threw it on the ground. It was a glass. - Did it break? - We were drinking, yeah. - It broke. - Shattered, all dramatic. But it didn't work though, 'cause yeah, she was just like, Ooh, all dramatic.

'Cause she knew it's not part of my personality, you know, you should tell I was putting on theatrics to be dramatic, - No, I don't think, you know, like certain people have certain personalities for that kind of stuff, you know? Where it won't work sometimes. - I don't think, I'm trying to think if I've thrown something I really can't think of anything right now. From some president who says like he taught tells the story about he like threw a pen and then he had to go pick it up That for some reason that always stuck with me. - It's true. - As like, dude you just did something dumb. - Yeah and that's actually, that's funny because that's how I felt like after when I threw the glass. I was like, oh shit, but I didn't clean it. Up I just was like because there was no reaction it didn't work so it's kind of like oh yeah I guess there's just a broken it was out

It was like kind of in on the side of a parking lot or whatever, but it's so you ever seen that You know mean we like memes we're familiar with memes. So this is kind of meme game. Delia There's this old one where it's like two to like, you know, like a comic strip kind of thing to the two sides I did one. So you got one, step one and step two. So the first one is like me on Friday and it's like fuck this shit, I don't need it. And this guy doing this and all papers flying everywhere. And then it says Monday and he's picking up the papers. Funny but it's the same exact concept you know where it's like yeah you did all that theatrics then now what? Fucking you gotta pick up that pen you know. Yeah, generally speaking those kind of dramatics I mean, uh Look, we're talking about people that have just been captured on the battlefield there there may be some level of Impact yeah, but like you start throwing stuff around your house. Yeah, it's a kind of

Like a big double down like gamble really cuz like if it doesn't work and people are like bright that was just dumb Now you're even way more behind as far as your influence. I, there was this guy I was in seventh grade. He was a music teacher, Mr. And he uh, he was such a nice guy and then one time he uh, he couldn't get control the class. He was like a pushover kind of guy. And kind of nerdy dude, right, music teacher. He, so he started to like yell. To try to get control of the class because I'm just no one was listening. It wasn't like, you know, thank you You're mocking him.

No, they're just no one was really listening and after a while people were like looking at him kind of lose his temper Like almost like they didn't notice he was even yelling They're just like oh, I guess he's like yelling but they kept talking and whatever certain people started to notice Oh, look who's like it's kind of funny like he's losing his temper this little guy Like what's he gonna do freaking nothing like always right and he goes he grabs a book and we had this tile floor so he grabs this big book and he like Tries to slam it on the ground to make this big boom sound. You know, when a book hits something super smooth, it makes a big pop sound. So he did that and it wasn't that loud. I kind of looked and they just started laughing. I was like, man, that is, now he's in a worse position. You know, now like. Now when he starts talking they're gonna be like bro, we can't even listen to this guy anymore. So yeah, you can't get That way right I recommend you don't throw anything despite the recommendations here The next one is fear up and it's in parentheses mild this approach is better suited to the strong confidence type of interior

There is generally no need to raise the voice or reserve back to heavy-handed table-banging And then the fear up mild approach must be credible And then you get the fear down it this is what you were talking about earlier feared down approach this technique is nothing more than calming the source and Convincing him he'll be properly and humanely treated telling him the world Wars. The war for him is mercifully over and he need not going to combat again When user the soothing calm tone of voice this often creates rapport and usually nothing else is needed to get the source cooperate This is way better in my in my experience Just being cool is a good way to get it done If The EPW is so frightened. He has withdrawn into a shell This is what I was talking about earlier. Like I've seen people that are just like scared. They can't talk Interrogator must break through to him

interrogator can do this by putting himself on the same physical level as the sources might require some physical contact as the source relaxes and Begins to respond to kindness the interrogator can begin asking questions This approach or technique can backfire if allowed to go too far After convincing the source he has nothing to fear He may cease to be afraid and may feel secure enough to resist the interrogators pertinent questions. That's good little point Little dichotomy there. You can go too far with this stuff and then you get into so those are the fear methodologies and then you get into the pride and ego approach and We've talked about these before because these are pretty common but Them Not only for when you need to use them But also when they're being used on you it's good thing to pay attention to pride in ego Watch this, the strategy of this approach is to trick the source into revealing desired information

Or flattering him. It is effective with sources who have displayed weakness or feelings of inferiority. This is such a obvious. One. A real or imaginary deficiency voiced about the source, loyalty, loyalty, loyalty, Or his organization or any other feature can provide a basis of this technique. The interrogator... The source of weakness or implies is unable to do a certain thing This type of source is also prone to excuses and reasons why did not do a certain thing often shifting To others an example is opening the interrogation with the question Why did you surrender so easily when you could have escaped by crossing the nearby ford in the river? The source is likely to provide a basis for further questions or reveal significant intelligence information if he attempts to explain his surrender in order to vindicate himself.

Answers such as no one could cross the Ford because it's mind You just got a little Intel This technique can also be employed in another manner by flattering the source into admitting certain information In order to gain credit for example while interrogating a suspected saboteur the interrogator states. This is a smooth operation I've seen many previous attempts fail. I bet you plan this who else but a clever person like you could have planned it When did you first decide to do the job? That's a little overacting. I think of those a Problem with pride and ego approaches it relies on trickery The source will eventually realize he has been tricked and may refuse to cooperate further if this Occurs the interrogator can easily move into fear up approach and convince the source that the questions He has already answered have committed him and it would be useless to resist further Is that how they got him on a

You good men. That's how they got Colonel Jessup, right? - Very, very, I mean at least in that vein. - Yeah. - You know? I really you know how I run my you know, yeah And and kind of like belittling him. Mmm to make him lash out and when he lashed out he admit. Yeah, that's full full-on on. He go down I guess you'd say that's ego down it ego up approach This approach is effective on social with little or no intelligence or those have been looked on looked down on for a long time On low ranking enlisted personnel and junior grade officers as it allows the source to finally show someone they do enjoy have some brains. The source is constantly flattered into providing certain information in order to gain credit. Interrogator must take care to use a flattering somewhat in-aw tone of voice and speak

Highly of the source through this throughout this approach this quickly produces positive feelings on the sources part as he probably has been Looking for this type of recognition all of his life I've definitely seen that activity go down before. Listen to some body language here effective targets for a successful pride and ego up approach are usually socially accepted reasons for flattery such as Appearance or good military bearing the interrogator should closely watch the sources demeanor for indications Approaches working some indicators to look for are raising the head a look of pride in the eyes swelling of the trust stiffening of the back And Then you get into the ego down pride down and ego down approach this approach is based on attack The sources sense of personal worth any source who shows any real or imagined inferiority or weakness about himself loyalty to his organization Or captured under embarrassing circumstances can easily

be broken with this approach technique. The objective is for the interrogator to pounce on the source's sense of pride by attacking. Hacking his loyalty intelligence abilities leadership qualities slovenly appearance or any other perceived weakness. This will usually go This source into becoming defensive and he will try and convince the interrogator is wrong in this attempt to redeem his pride this source will Involuntary provide pertinent information in attempting to vindicate himself a source Susceptible to this approach is also prone to make excuses and give reasons why he did or did not do a certain thing often shifting the blame to others if the Arrogator uses a sarcastic, caustic tone of voice with appropriate expressions of distaste The source will readily believe him possible targets for pride and ego down approach are the source's loyalty technical competence

Leadership abilities, social equalities, appearance. So, those are all just good. Next up is futility. This is another approach in this source The interrogator convinces the source that resistance to questioning is futile cool cool. Not finished here until you answer these questions everyone talks sooner or later the futility The battlefield situation futility in the sense if the source does not mind talking about history Why should he mind talking about his missions? They're also history >> Mm-hm. Making the situation appear hopeless allows the source to rationalize his actions, especially if that Is cooperating with the interrogator? Yeah, you see this a lot with the police like hey, it doesn't matter we already know yeah Yeah, that's the futility or your it's like there's no point in resisting right now. You're on

We already got you on video Which is similar to this next approach is which is we know all To begin the interrogation, the interrogator asks questions based on known data. When the source hesitates, refuses to answer, or provides an incorrect or incomplete reply, Interrogator provides the detailed answer the detailed answer. That's a nice little trick, isn't it? Mm-hmm Like when did you show up here? Oh, no. Well, we have video of you showing up here at 728 Mm, do I? Ooh. When the source begins to give accurate and complete information, the interrogator interjects questions designed to gain the needed information.

Report file and dossier This is an approach the file and dossier approach is used when the interrogator prepares a dossier containing all available information Obtained from documents concerning the source or his organization Careful arrangement of the material within the file may give the illusion it contains more data than is actually there the fine met file may be padded with extra paper if necessary. Index tabs with titles such as. Education employment criminal record military service and others are particularly effective Do your prep work And this is another one you see a lot of establish your identity this approach Especially adaptable to interrogation the interrogator insists the source has been correctly identified as an Infamous individual wanted by higher authorities on serious charges and is not and he is not

Person he purports to be in an effort to clear himself of this allegation The source makes a genuine and detailed effort to establish or substantiate his true identity identity In so doing he may provide the interrogator with information and leads for further development The establish your identity approach was effective in Vietnam with the Viet Cong and in operations just Doesn't as Trump I wonder they're gonna have so much more So much more we have 20 years of war in Iraq and Afghanistan But I got to get the updated manual and see how all this stuff. I'll see what they learned because Just cause like they're talking about that really or desert storm. Those are short operations - Operations. - Repetition.

Approaches used to induce cooperation from a hostile source in One variation of this approach the interrogator listens carefully to a sources answers to a question then repeats the question and answer several times Do this is just like going out someone which is also what rapid fire is rapid fire and vibes with is the Next one rapid fire involves a psychological ploy based on the principle that everyone likes to be heard when he speaks it's confusing To be interrupted in mid-sentence with an unrelated question. So you're just going bam bam bam bam. And this is my favorite one, silent. This approach may be successful when used against the nervous or confident source. It's interesting both of them. Nervous court source and the confidence source. Hmm when employing this technique. The interrogator says nothing to the source, but looks hims Squarely in the eye, preferably with a slight smile on his face.

Not to look away from the source but force him to break eye contact first It doesn't say why that's important. Mm-hmm. It's like the old Fight, you know square off. Mm-hmm. You know, he broke eye contact. He's gonna lose really Not so much. Mm-hmm. It's a psychological thing, but I don't think It means you very much. I've definitely your ego those videos of guys that are Face-off mm-hmm and the one guy's all super aggro in the face-off and gets knocked out in 30 to 38 seconds. Yeah Yeah a lot of that I mean I would think nowadays people know about that kind stuff you know like this I call it, you know, eye contact, what is, so they'll just put on the act, you know? - Remember when John Jones would just like look over there? Like, just like look to a different area? - Actually, that kind of backs up what I'm saying, where it's like, it's so obvious that that has nothing to do with how you perform in the fight, that it's like this whole.

Separate thing that they're gonna make a mockery out of it, you know, kind of a thing. - Dude, what about when Rose, Thug Rose. Was just like staring and just reciting the Lord's Prayer I think or something like that was that was pretty impressive that was a good stand off. Delayed back in the day yeah he had the most hype stare downs right yeah and he yeah and he would win too yeah so it's like but again it's like the the you know interrogation thing anyway, it seems like that's kind of the natural psychology, the natural flow of psychology into behavior kind of a thing, but in fighting, since it's so-- All well known that it becomes this whole separate thing, you know, where it's like some people, they'll just make a show out of the stare down. Like so you ever seen the, I think it was like, what's the one, the girl like Waters,

The karate hottie one it was like her and then might have been Paige or I don't know I forget who but they would they would do like some dance together You know how they dance and they point to the other and the other one dance Becomes this thing, so this whole stare down is like not that anymore, it's a whole different thing. - Yeah, in many cases. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure it plays itself out in other little like less known areas I remember one time to like when Rhonda was Rhonda rouser's coming kind of the thing was against Holly home and Holly Holmes and she was Acting all crazy and like acting all aggressive and Holly just looked like a serial killer basically just like staring back at Well the one that she won. Yeah the one that that one that Holly won, and it was like okay Maybe some of that overaggressiveness was like a little, you know, trying to, trying to psych themselves up. - Yeah, hyped himself up. Yeah, makes sense.

I suspect at the end of the day, there are now two different things. How you handle yourself in the stare down and the weigh in has very little to do with Little bearing on how you perform since they're so separated now. So sometimes it'd be like, Oh wow, you see, she was ready. You could tell she had an effect. Stare down scenario for that event specifically and you know, maybe there's some correlation, but there's no reliable Reliable way to tell you know, that's what it seems like. I don't know check Continuing on with this silent approach the source may become nervous begin to shift his chair Cross and recross his legs and look away. He may ask questions, but the interrogator should not answer until he's ready to Break the silence the source may blurt out such questions as come on now. What do you want with me? When the interrogator is ready to break the silence he may do so with some nonchalant questions such as

This operation is for a long time, didn't you? Was it your idea? The interrogator must be patient when using this technique. It may appear the technique is not succeeding. Usually will when given a reasonable chance I was Like a long time ago. I was buying a car with my wife or whatever sure you know Doing the deal we're doing the negotiation and I'm just silent right my wife super uncomfortable like with silence Yeah, I don't care And you know, I forget what the what Kind of initiated the silence, you know whether it was like well what you know? Well, how much do you? think the car is worth? I don't know what question but I just sat there yeah and there was just silence. Thank you. And afterwards my wife was like, I don't know how you do that. I would hate to let deal with you. You're a psychopath well, they

It came down, didn't they? We got what we wanted. - It worked. - And she was like, yeah, but that doesn't mean you're not a psycho. And I said, well, fair enough. We can roll with that. - Yeah, I feel, I still. And I feel like in these, you know, when that part of it is. So obviously known where it's less likely they. Like oh this is part of the theatrics of it all you know there's certain circumstances where It's pretty obvious that there's a good chance there's some theatrics going on with the eye contact or the, Like, you know, like a firm handshake, you know, that whole thing, right? Oh, you know, firm handshake. Where back in the day that made sense because it was just a normal, natural kind of part of interaction or whatever, like the initial part or whatever. It's so well known like yeah, you want a firm head So sometimes you shake like kid these young guys hands and they're doing it like all hard like probably you're like a small dude Like you you don't have to like squeeze my hand all hard

Normal you know kind of a thing but you can tell they're putting putting extras on it to make some kind of specific impression consciously you know so it's - Right, it doesn't even serve that purpose anymore. It serves a whole different purpose, you see what I'm saying? - Yeah, unless someone doesn't know, deal. - Right, if they-- - But kinda we all know the deal right now. - That's the point right there where there's certain times where it's kinda like it's more known now, you know, like the eye contact. Or the stare down or the handshake, whatever. Even the negotiation part, like that's becoming more and more well known. - Oh yeah, people definitely know. Thing is though is it it still is it still is functional yeah i think i think that you know what and this is why i think i don't know but it feels like negotiable negotiation and there are other things too. It's so that There's so many approaches and little details in it. I don't know how complex it is, but it's. So much to it that there's so much known yes, but there's so much not known. And there's so

Much subtlety and technique and all this other stuff. So it's kind of like, yeah, you might be doing, you could actually do the. What do you call the like the reverse psychology you could you could act like you're doing this approach But you're really doing this other approach because you know that they're gonna pick up on this approach when you throw that You know as more of like a faint you seem saying so it kind of does Is that, I mean, there's that part of it, I think. - But yeah, I think too, there's like a more modern version of negotiation, especially like when you're buying stuff or where. People recognize that you've got to be more strategic and you've got to be like, oh look if I rip off echo right now on buying This car he's gonna tell ten of his friends and like no one's gonna buy a car with me again, right? - Right, like sales is another one. - Right, whereas if I'm like, hey, you're a client, Take care of you. Of course, you know, I need to make money right like we can come up with a more sort of equal deal than

Back in the day like even when I joined the Navy when I when I first got to San Diego Right you like if you? down to the National City mile of cars. Oh, yeah It was mayhem like dude a sailor would walk onto the lot and there'd be sharks on him ready to sell him of shitty Car at 24.99% interest it was mayhem. Yeah, it's not I personally don't think it's that it's like that anymore People recognize like oh, yeah, then we have a bad reputation with every Sailor on that ship or whatever. He's gonna tell everyone got ripped off and you're gonna hate us. Whereas if I'm cool to him give him a good deal. He's gonna go tell his friends and I think people just become more strategic about sales, yeah it probably some of it has to do with the fact that communication is so much more vast and webbed now and you Do a yelp review and you can there's so many ways to overcome well they used to be like yeah You drove off a lot. There's no I was never gonna. See you again. Yeah, yeah even so

even like those high pressure, like you know the old school selling movies, like stock market. - Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Stuff or whatever. It's like the old school ones are like real like they're dashing and fun and high pressure, like that kind of stuff. That in fact nowadays there's this big wave of like this essentially it's just this collaboration you know where they want to kind of build this rapport and relationship in a genuine way and in fact the more Genuine the better yeah not this like even they frown upon small talk they play oh so how's the weather over there they frown on that because it's not genuine you know so it's like kind of the more genuine you can get the better yeah Definitely the strategic approach because thinking about if I sell you a car and I kind of take care of you Yeah, you're gonna you're gonna give me Five referrals or three referrals, and that's gonna do way better than I jacked you for an extra 300 bucks. - Yeah, and that's not to mention, actually to me, and I don't know, but it feels like that secondary, that--

The logical part is secondary compared to like, hey, I like this guy, this sales guy is not pushy. Stands me he's listening to me like bro I'll freaking buy whatever this guy because I believe I trust him I trust this guy I like him you know kind of a Not to mention all the Yelp reviews and all the stuff that I'm probably going to give them and like all this stuff, you know Like if the sales guy knows like hey, I really want to build a relationship with this guy for the short time I have. Genuinely, that feels better and more effective. And then not to mention the Yelp reviews and all the secondary benefits. - But back in the day, bro. Back in the day it was different. It was a different game. It was a different game back in the day. I'm sure there's still some of that, and there has to be some of that, right? - Yeah, I would imagine, I mean, shoot, they say a used car salesman, that expression, they say it for a reason, you know?

It seems to be fading it seems to be because you just can't get away with that stuff anymore At least it certainly appears that you can't it appears that way. Yeah, but what other arenas though are like that kind of the sales. You know what there's a whole-- - Door to door I guess. - Yeah I was gonna do this door to door like solar. Come to your house like they'll come your house like hey. I'm like I already have solar so yeah We're good you can you don't have to hang out - Well sometimes, okay so I will admit like I'm kinda, it's fun to listen to-- Say well, yes. Yes in subsequently, but that like I'm you know, how there's like sales people out there like who kind of that? their jam they just kind of promote give you tips on how to sell and how to do this so and a lot of Psychology all the stuff so it's it is fun yes to hear the pitch I don't want and hear the pitch, but when they're here, it's interesting to hear the little techniques, like, oh, you learned that technique.

One of the techniques is I think they call it social proof But basically what they do is they say hey, you know freaking Fred like your neighbor Fred like two doors down here or whatever. Meanwhile, they might have got their name because of, you know, however. Like they say, Oh, I'm John, what's your name? Okay, cool, cool. Or they know from public records, whatever. They know and they act like they know them, right? And they're like, Yeah, you know, like we just. We just hooked them up and they're saving, you know, so it's kind of like, oh wait, it worked for a friend that I know. For me right that's like the approach or whatever but they say it and i'm like i know that technique you know but it is interesting but i can see how it works though yeah Yeah, and even like I was saying like I was buying this car for my wife back in the day and like it worked Yeah, the one of the if you were actually buying something You got to be able to walk away That's like you got it not really want the thing yeah, or you got at least convince yourself that you don't really

Want the thing if you really want the thing you're not in a good position to negotiate, right? Yeah, you really really want it and they can smell that. Mm-hmm. So now you're like oh for a good guy and this was like a it seemed good Before I knew it but a good sales guy let's say a car for example he'll make you feel like you want it even more. Like if you came in like, I gotta be like, I don't really want, I gotta convince myself, I don't really want it. Can I take it or leave it? Therefore, I'm not emotionally trapped into getting this, committing. Into getting this thing. And they can kind of create that world where you do want it a lot. - Oh yeah, I'll tell you. Oh, I got another guy coming to look at it this afternoon. Know what if you don't want it's fine cuz I got another guy's coming in this afternoon He's he's been looking all over for this one. Yeah Yeah the greeting demand.

There's a website where there's a clock like no no a number of like yeah Yeah, 27 in stock 24 in stock 23 in stock 22 in stock. You're like, oh, yeah on Amazon they do that really or in stock, they'll save two more in stock. Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah man, as long as you watch. Watch out for this. So there's a guy I worked with, I think I told you the story, forgive me if I have, but it's significant. So there's this guy I worked with when I was a valet. Actually, he used to be his car salesman. And he says, yeah, there's like little tech. On how you say things. So he's like, one of the things I would say is like, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, you say the pitch or whatever and say, yeah, let me just check these numbers or whatever and see if we can't get you driving home in your brand new car today. So what he did is get you. Driving home so now that person imagines themselves driving home in a brand new car today instead of

to get you the deal. Like get you the deal is too arbitrary. I don't see a world where the deal is improving my life. You know, the deal is a deal. It can apply to anything but me driving home. My brand new car today. That's hard, dude. That's - It's hard to be like, no, I don't care about that, you know, when they plant it in your brain like that. But if you know it's a technique, fight against it. - There you go. Or you have a better balanced footing, you know, to make the right decision. Yeah, it's true, bro. It is true. It is true. It is wild out there. Alright, well, we'll just get... Sales going into now the questioning phase the interrogation effort has two primary goals to obtain information and to report it

Using good questioning, developing and using good questioning techniques, enable the interrogator to obtain accurate and pertinent information by following a logical sequence. And then it goes into direct, follow-up, non-pertinent, repeated, and control. Direct questions Questions should be presented in a logical sequence to avoid neglecting significant topics this is getting into like the interrogation and Military part of it where you don't want to miss certain pertinent topics Interrogator must consider the probable response of the source to a particular question or line of questioning and should not be considered. If not, if at all possible, ask direct questions likely to evoke a refusal to answer. Or antagonize the source. This is like the old sales thing where they're just trying to get you to say yes a bunch of times. - Yeah.

You to say yes. How much truth is there to that? Well, I don't know how much there is now. Well, now the hot new hotness is get them to say no. Well, Chris was the first one that I heard say this, but they say this in sales now to get them to know. Because you don't commit to anything like anytime you like a person what he call it prospect or whatever they call them Oh anytime you say yes prospect you feel a small element of like being trapped because you committed to something by saying yes Saying no, it's like, ah, no commitment. So you get them to say no, so they just inverse the language. So they'll be like, hey, are you against, you know. Me telling you about this new opportunity for five minutes? Are you against that? You know, so it's even, no, I'm not against anything. I don't know, I'm not committed to anything, you know, so it's easier to say no. You just said yes to freaking giving up five minutes. So it's like yeah I don't know. I don't know. Maybe again, if it's a different time, I guess the,

Psychology behind it was if they say yes, it means like you're kind of on the same page like yes, yes Yes, give them to guess. Yeah, like yeah, it's like you're getting them to slowly commit to something. >> Yeah, I bet it makes them feel like they're more in control, right? Can say no if I have to mm-hmm. So is this a bad time? No That's a different question then it's not if do you have to have five minutes right now - Hard to say yes to that. - That's what I'm saying. So if they say yes, so getting them to yes, is you trap them and they feel trapped. A stranger and a sore us cold call or something like this, but no is like That's why they say, is it a bad time? And it's like, if I say yes, it's a bad time, it's like I'm committing to the bad time all

Kind of a thing. It's way easy. It's just easier. It's like less commitment saying no, you know Getting into the questions Non-pertinent questions is the one that it starts with non-pertinent questions are used to conceal the interrogations objective or to strengthen rapport from the source. They may be used to break the source's concentration, particularly if the interrogator suspects... The source or suspects the source is lying. It's hard for source to convince to be a convincing liar if his concentrations frequently interrupted So you're gonna you have some random questions in there some non-pertinent questions repeated questions repeated Any questions asked the source for the same information obtained in response to earlier questions. They may be exactly repetitions of the previous question or the previous question may be rephrased or otherwise disguised the use of repeat. Repeated questions may develop a topic the source had refused to talk about earlier.

May also be used to check source reliability ensure accuracy of important details Return to a topical area for further questioning. Okay Control questions are developed from recently confirmed information that is not likely to have changed. They are used to check the truth of the world. Of the sources responses and should be mixed in with other questions throughout the interrogation this is a I Would say that I utilize control questions But it's more like controlled questions about things that I agree with you on Mm-hmm. So like if I'm if we've got to go do Thank you. I agree with you on a B C and D. I won't come in and say hey what's going on with D and you What's going on? I'm like, I don't like that but I go hey what's going on with a and you tell me go That sounds good. What about being you could tell me and I go, okay, that's cool. And then I said

What about seeing you tell me what how you're gonna handle that and I go that's a good plan and By now you're you and I are bros, you know now I go Hey, what about Dean you tell me what you're gonna do and I'm like, hey I'm not are you sure that might be the best approach that Well, why do you say that? Let's see. I've developed a nice little so it's like I'm Gonna confirm some stuff that we agree upon Mm-hmm before I jump and hit you with something that I know we're yeah got a disagreement on it kind of gives me the feeling of like, hey, you're on my side overall, you know? - We're down. - Yeah, so it's like I can create this psychological. Separation between like you being against me or for me. You know like you're not against me just against this first specific thing. Yeah, by the way, I'm with you over here I'm with over here. I'm with you over here this thing wait. Why aren't we aligned we should? - It could be. - Yeah, yeah. - We kind of agree on most stuff, right? - Yeah. - A, B, and C. - Could be, you just confused a little bit.

Or maybe I got it wrong. I don't know you're on my side. We're here together doing this thing I don't kind of a feeling so those are like control questions. I like it Prepared questions are used primarily when dealing with information of a technical nature or specific topic which requires the interrogator to formulate questions beforehand. Okay, fair enough. That's probably a good idea. These things role-playing and doing a little role-playing before you run in to talk to somebody that you Need to talk to you about something. I I Should probably go do a roleplay with my peer or my boss before if I got a fire echo And I roll in there and I want to talk to you about your performance and why you're getting fired I better roleplay that a little bit make sure I got some good answers To avoid interrogators should avoid the following types of questions leading questions Let's hope that you enjoyed this video.

Leading questions require the source to answer yes or no. They do not elicit narrative answers. They also prompt the source to answer the question in a way he thinks the interrogator wants to hear it. So, opening up a narrative and allowing the person to. Articulate things the way they want to articulate them Those are very positive way the minute you say you see these politicians do this a lot because the reporter will be like it's a Yes or no court, or actually no, the congressional hearings. They do that. There'll be some witness, like. The stand in Congress and the congressman will be like Well, do you think that? Blah blah blah on the person back. Well, you know, it's a yes or no question and the people the people the stand don't want to give a yes or no answer. Yeah. Yeah because they call it there's a certain I mean there's a bunch of them obviously but there's a

Certain kind of question there's a name for it where in the classic example is have you been beating your wife? So it's like wait a sec, you know, there's all this other stuff that may or may not be true loaded in the question, you know, kind of a thing. And you're like, no, no, it's a simple answer and a lot of times these questions are yes or no questions. like um odd Did you know about the this and that this and that and you're like wait, but this is truth this is not true and those other three things those aren't true either so did i know about you know so it's like there's more to it than that they're like yeah No question. Technically. Did you see the university presidents getting interrogated by the congressional members? about the use of Language anti-semitism

language at Harvard MIT and I think Brown maybe University Or maybe it wasn't Brown, but it was definitely Harvard at MIT because the Harvard Or maybe was Penn Anyways, the Harvard president was the one that got well She said she resigned but she got fired. But when you watch that, it was. Very strange to see how confused they were about the situation. Not really and by the way when I say they were confused they didn't realize how stupid they looked mmm like that one president from Harvard Thought she was doing great. You could see this little smirk she had on her face and she's like looking as if. In her mind. She's just doing this awesome job. Yes, and Anyone that's watching it is cringing going

What are you doing? What do you what kind of answers are you giving right now? What is wrong with you? It was very strange to watch, but you could see that from the smirk on her face and the smirk on the other women's faces that were supposed to be answering these questions, They were really smart and thought that they were just kicking ass up there It was kind of crazy to watch how just totally off-base they were. Mmm interesting Um Negative questions. These are questions you types of a questions. You should avoid again negative questions Should never be used during an interrogation. They imply the source should reply in the negative and this sometimes confuses or leads the source To provide false information. For example, you're not in the first company, are you? Negative question usually require additional questions. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah compound questions. This is what you were just talking about Before your capture today. Were you traveling north or south like a compound question that could have correct parts and income

Correct parts all in the same question watch out for those that negative question is true You like even in everyday life where? big one that we just overlooking gloss over because we know what we mean is when when you say hey hey do you Do you mind passing the drink or whatever? Do you mind passing the fork, right? *inhale* Typical answer is oh, yeah. Yeah, they'll say yes, right? Yes. I'll pass the fork. That's not what I asked though Technically I asked do you mind if you pass the fork? So the answer should be no if you don't mind passing the fork So you can say yes or no, but that is again like we just gloss over it because we understand but You go deep, you go in an interrogation, or you go in a situation where the answer actually matters for the record or whatever. I can jam you up, you know, you literally asked one thing the guy knew the answer Essentially gave the wrong answer because of your confusing question. It's true bro.

Vague questions do not have enough information for the source to understand exactly what's being asked. So don't use them That's what it goes into there *sigh* And then it just talks that we know it's got a section in here about recording information reasons to record information obtained during interrogations. The most important is to ensure information can be reported completely and accurately. Recorded information may also be. Used to refresh the interrogators memory on a topic covered earlier such as when returning to a topic after exploiting a hot lead check responses Repeated questions point out inconsistencies of the short source gain the cooperation of other sources Compare with information received from other sources, so it goes into a big thing about taking notes and recording and all that so pretty straightforward And then gets into the termination phase which is when you're gonna end the interrogation When is necessary or prudent the interrogator will terminate the interrogation there are many ways to conduct determination But the following points must be

to the source. The approaches used to break the source must be reinforced. Any Incentives should be rendered the reinforcement must be sincere and convincing as The source may be interrogated again The source must be told the information he gave will be checked for truthfulness and accuracy his Action of this statement should be closely monitored. The source must be told he will be spoken to again by the same or another interrogator and any-- identification or other documents personal property or other material must be returned to the source or be given to the evac evacuation guard as appropriate it's more of a technical thing and Then it says what this is the last point for? We're going to cover the termination procedures whatever the reason for terminating the interior Gator must remember that there is a possibility someone may want to question the source at a later date for that reason he should term

Without any loss of rapport when possible he offers the opportunity for the source to change or add any Information he's given so you want to end on a good note Essentially is what it's saying which is a good a good policy to keep interacting with other humans It's like we I said in the middle this thing when I'm gonna communicate with someone I want that to improve our relationship My interaction with another human being I want our relationship to get better. That's what my goal is important to think about the way that you ask questions and how you behave and what history is in the situation all impacts That interaction that you're about to have. So think about that. Because every interaction you have either builds relationship or breaks down. I suppose there's a small amount that keeps it neutral, sure, but most of

Most of the time you interact with another person you make things a little bit better Or you make things a little bit worse you make sometimes you make them a lot worse Make them a lot better But you certainly want to improve the relationship build the relationship not break it down That's what we're doing if you're aware of this if you're aware You're thinking about it just like you're talking about all these little sales techniques. Yeah, if you're aware of them you're not gonna be that much better off. So if you actually consider and are aware of the way you're interacting with other people, you're gonna be better off. You can be better off in anything that everything that you do. There's no time when having an antagonistic relationship with other people helps. I should say almost no time. Person is like a serial killer or whatever. Yeah, but other than that people you work with family members, friends, people at the gym, people in your jiu-jitsu class, people

Department that you sometimes work with the contractors that are helping out your company at the time no time we're having an antagonistic relationship with those people is gonna help you. Your boss, your peers, there's no time. There's no time. There's no time. Where you have to interact with another human being and you treat them bad or you don't get along that it's gonna benefit you. It just doesn't happen. Look is there some niche freaking moment in time sure there is I don't know what it is. You know the person was about to Make a call on who he wants to send somewhere and he didn't like you so he didn't send you in that plane crashed Mmm. - Yeah, I mean that's not. - Exactly. But generally speaking, the vast majority of the time. You think about how you interact with other people you can improve those relationships and you're gonna be better off across the board That's what we're doing

All right, what do we got what else we doing we're doing what we're getting after it it kind of in a big way You trained this weekend? I didn't see you training this weekend. I did not train this weekend. Did you lift? I hope. I lifted. I had one, I did a lifting session on Saturday that got interrupted by a friend coming over and you know, so I, you know. He was coming over at five in the morning, huh? Alright. 5 in the morning lifts are few and far between although I do do them from time to time. Nonetheless, lifting is lifting. And you even said last time when we were here freaking lifting you're stronger in the afternoon true. I know I think It might be and I agreed with I didn't say anything when you said it, but I'm like, yeah, brother That's really true in my experience in the morning. Sometimes you have mentally you might feel better or clearer and it's better It's a better time to get it out of the way and all that is true, too So you can be better benefits outweigh the the negatives

- For me personally. - Yeah, yeah, and again, that, and ultimately it depends on who you are and how your day is structured, all this stuff. But when I lift in the afternoon, sometimes mentally I'll be like whatever but physically I feel stronger, maybe because like the blood's flowing more so I don't know, whatever it is. - There's like actual kinda, what is it? Hormonal reasons that are things are going in the way you're you're Is working that the afternoon is gonna be better for you. Yeah. Yeah, isn't there like two spikes in the Yeah, but I always wonder like well What if you'd wake up at a different time than the normal person? Then won't those spikes come at different times or maybe it has to do with a circuit like the Sun and all Listen, I'm a this this whole thing goes deep but As long as you're lifting you're good to go That's the main things you're caught up in like where the Sun is in the sky and what time you're lifting or you could lift Yeah before the Sun comes up my recommendation, by the way There you go.

Hey, you're gonna need fuel. Yeah, nonetheless. I said jocklefield.com get you some clean Give you some good clean fuel Get the hydrate, get the greens. My recommendation is mix creatine into your greens. Hydrate you can go either way. I'm good with either way or all three. Maybe all three of the above I have put all three together. It's good. Yeah, by the way See, you've mentioned greens probably like the last five to six times that this has come up and it Kinda goes to show, like, you know how, like, I don't know, I forget what it's called, but it's a thing. It's like an actual phenomenon where, like, you hear something, like, enough, it just starts to influence you or whatever. So I'm like, fuck. Guess I'm putting greens in my feel like I feel it coming closer and closer to me actually doing that in the green Oh, you haven't you don't you don't take the green. I don't see the greens Why I mean I take

The greens from time to time it's not on my daily though The daily is hydrate and creatine in the morning every single day. Why why why do you take hydrate in the morning? I don't know. You haven't sweated - Yeah. - No, you lose hydration when you sleep. - That's true, good point. - Yeah. - Good point. Yeah, but yeah, okay, you know creatine boom hydrate good morning. All right, that's what we're to get to the greens taste good That's what I think bonuses. It's not like you have to choke them down. It's not like you have to do of A shot of tequila. Did you drink tequila back in the day? - Yeah, here and there. - It tastes so bad. See it's an experience. I mean, yeah sure a lot of people don't like it. I don't think it tastes bad I think it's like it doesn't taste worse or better than any other freaking hard alcohol in and of itself In fact, it tastes a little bit better. Okay, you get the salt You get the tequila you know lemon. It's a whole thing. I think yeah, just trying to just pump tequila freaking idiot brother

Horses I smell that stuff now, and I'm like what is how can we how have how have people been? Convinced to drink this to pay money to drink this stuff tastes smells terrible. Yeah Well alcohol obviously, even beer, you know there's like beer and tasting and all this stuff or whatever and they go oh this beer is good or whatever. Taste in and of itself is just a small. Teeny tiny part of it and it's not even that good like beer doesn't taste good everyone knows that vodka doesn't taste good tequila doesn't taste good there are people though that legitimately If you put them on a lie detector test, they truly do like the taste of beer of wine of some like Gotcha or whatever. Oh, yeah fully but it's more of a holistic thing. It's not the taste in and of itself It's the whole experience. So like, you know, like the like a tasting right like a one if you got a Wine tasting, there's more to it than just tasting wine. There's technique, there's the environment, there's the cup, or the glass, whatever.

There's the it's a whole thing's the whole experience So the taste of tequila the taste of vodka the taste of wine has to do with more than just the taste If it only do the taste you'd be like no this tastes junk chocolate milk taste Good mountain dude tastes good molt tastes good exactly right so yeah so as far as the tequila it's the experience so yeah again the lemon usually with your friends actually now to go too deep on the tequila thing The reason that most people who really hate tequila specifically is because they had a bad experience with tequila in the past. So now it has that frickin mark on their brain that like this is just toxic. Reminds them like neurologically reminds them of like throwing up like PTSD - Close tequila stress disorder. I don't think I ever did that with tequila. Gosh. Once you don't drink. Your alcohol just seems terrible. Yeah, and this well the smell of it it.

Well, you know why people we like alcohol though and why there's addiction and like all this stuff so back in there This is the theory. It's when I read so Through our evolution it was it was the the people who could for met like alcohol who could metabolize it and we know there's seven calories per gram of alcohol that you can metabolize As energy. So you know you get like rotten fruits or you know all this other stuff where where the fermentation process produces alcohol molecules the organisms that could metabolize that survived. Now you know and you get different areas. So nowadays how it plays itself, genetics all mixed up now. So alcohol has like, the molecules go and they-- Bind to certain receptors or whatever. So the more receptors you have, the more-- or you'll be like an alcoholic. Something along those lines. My little physiology.

But you don't need alcohol. I'm here to tell you right now. You know what you do need? Jocko fuel protein you need protein You maybe need some energy get some go. Anyways, you guys know the deal talk with fuel calm go check it out Also, you can get Get it at Wawa, Vitamin Shop, GNC, Military Commissaries, A-Fees, Hanford, Dash Stores in Maryland, Wakefern, Shoprite, HEB, Meyer. Wagman's Harris Teeter Lifetime Fitness Shields Small gyms everywhere people we got all kinds of people that are selling jocko fuel in their gyms now If you want to sell jocko fuel in your gym Go to email jf sales at jocko fuel calm. That's what we got for you also, if you need gear if you need clothing because From what I read if you had clothing you could survive more. Yeah, because you wouldn't freeze. Yeah the winters And the yeah the weather for sure and we make clothing here in America origin usa.com

Go get yourself some jeans, some boots, get yourself a rash guard, get yourself some workout clothes, get yourself some hunt gear, whatever you need. We got you. We got you. You. OriginUSA.com. Made in America. That's what we're doing. Get your Get yourself some freedom. Get yourself some Origin USA. - It's true. Also, Jocko has a store. Discipline equals freedom you want to represent we're all on the path We're representing on the path is where you shirts and the hats and hoodies. We have also shorts on there I don't mention that all the time. We've got sure some some Courts that are kind of hybridy. They have the stretch room so you can work out in them. Good, all good. - Hybridy. - Yeah, they're hybrid-ish. Yeah. Um... What's the date today? So we should already have socks and quick flip hoodies. and quick flip hoodies. By the way. If we don't, they come in soon, so be on the lookout for that. Also the short locker, new design on your shirt every month.

Subscription scenario. It's a good one people seem to like those designs You can represent pretty hardcore with those check that out if you want. So yeah, chocolate store calm also, check out primal beef calm Or coloradocraftbeef.com so you can get some steak, some ground beef, some burgers. I'm about to go have a burger. How do you like that? - I like that. - I guess what I had last night for dinner, burgers. Yeah, three burger patties with some grilled onions. Yeah, my wife made enough grilled onions to supply an army Yeah, okay good move good brother. So what do you have a certain burger protocol? No, just my basic burger Mayonnaise what grilled onions if possible I think my burger protocol is pretty solid and there's many I do Do you make sliders you ever do sliders not really think you need like you probably put on those little Hawaiian sweet rolls here Yeah, I can see where that's I've had in a restaurant where they do that. We don't have

- Hawaiian street rolls in my house. That's what it's called, right? Hawaiian street rolls? - Sweet rolls, yeah, yeah. - Yeah, those are good. - Yeah, Kings, Hawaiian, all good. - Yeah. - But there's a seasoning that I use, a new one by the way, but I use that for the burgers you put. Little bit of like light mayo. A little bit. Um, ketchup and honey mustard. Oh, and cheese. Of course. Try that. Try that report back. Well, if you need that beef to make that with, go to Colorado. Craft beef calm or go to primal beef calm get the quality stuff. It makes a big difference, too It makes a big difference if you get the quality quality Meet subscribe to the podcast subscribe to Jocko underground subscribe to the YouTube channels. We got a bunch of them Jocko podcast Jocko fuel Echelon front origin USA check out all those YouTube channels psychological warfare flipside canvas calm

Dakota Meyer making cool stuff to hang on your wall. Also we got books, I've written a bunch of books mostly about leadership. I've also written a bunch of kids books, check those out. Ashlam Front, leadership. Consultancy echelonfront.com if you need help inside your organization So you can develop relationships up and down across the chain of command and have a better running team Go to echelonfront.com And if you want to get trained in this stuff these skills for leadership in life go to Extremeownership.com and take some of Of our online classes. And if you wanna help service members, active and retired, you wanna help their families, Families check out Mark Lee's mom mommy Lee she's got a charity organization if you want to donate or you want to get involved go to Erica's mighty warriors org. Also, we've got heroes and horses org and we've got beyond the Brotherhood org check those out if you want to connect with us we're on the

Interwebs we're on social media for lack of a better word - Cheers. Cheers. Echoes at a qua Charles. I'm at Jocko won't just be careful because there's an algorithm that's gonna try and steal your life away from you So don't let that happen. Thanks Everyone out there in uniform the cloth of the nation Thank you for holding the line and keeping freedom and democracy safe in the world also Thanks to our police law enforcement firefighters paramedics EMTs dispatchers correctional officers border patrol Secret Service as well as all other first responders. Thanks for keeping us safe here at home and everyone else out there. Listen you aren't an interrogator, that's not why we did this today. I don't want you to try and be an interrogator. I want you to remember that adverse relationships almost never help, and that hostilities with other people makes things harder. In your life. Treat people nicely. Tribute.

Well good, give them trust, listen to them, treat them with respect, allow yourself to be influenced by them, care about them. Them as people. That's how you build relationships and good relationships with people in your world will make your world and the world a better place and until next time this is Echo and Jocko out.