« Jocko Podcast

69: The Real Top Gun. Battlefield, Work, and Life are Identical. With Elite Marine Fighter Pilot, David Berke.

2017-04-05 | 🔗

0:00:00 - Opening.

0:09:45 - Intro to Dave Berke.

0:21:11 - Officer Candidate School.

0:27:39 - Southern Watch.

0:31:01 - Top Gun selection.

0:38:49 - September 11th

0:45:08 - Afghanistan: Operation Anaconda.

0:47:33 - Training Officer at Top Gun.

1:08:27 - Forward Air Controller (FAC) Tour.

1:26:43 - Ramadi.

2:14:41 - Home Coming.  Relationship. Pentagon. F-22 and F-35.

2:40:56 - Echelon Front transition.

2:52:54 - Green M&Ms, Support, Cool Onnit, Amazon, JockoStore stuff, with Jocko White Tea and Psychological Warfare (on iTunes). Extreme Ownership (book), (Jocko's Kids' Book) Way of the Warrior Kid, and The Muster002 

3:09:28 - Closing Thoughts and Gratitude. 


Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This is Jack podcast number, sixty nine, with ECHO Charles. Let me jogger willing good evening echo greedy. The president of the United States takes pride in Peru, ending the medal of Honor posthumously to Captain Henry T, L Rod, United States Marine Corps. For service as set forth in the following citation for consumers, yours gallantry and intrepidity at risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty, while attached to Marine fighting Squadron two hundred eleven during action, since the japanese land surface and airily units at Wake island. From eight to ten three December nineteen. Forty one.
Engaging vastly superior forces of ETA Bombers and warships on nine and twelve December Captain L Rod shot down too of a flight of, twenty two hostile planes and executing heated bombing and striving runs at extremely low altitude and close range succeeded, inflicting deadly damage upon it large, japanese vessel, thereby sinking the first major warship to be destroyed by small caliber bombs, delivered from a fighter type aircraft when plain, was disabled by hostile fire and no other ships were operative cap. El Rod, assumed command of one flank of the line set up in defiance of the enemy landing and conducting a brilliant defence, enabled his men to hold their positions and repulsed determined enemy attacks repeatedly proceeding. Through intense hostile fuel
to provide cover fire for on arms, ammunition carriers. Capturing an automatic weapon during one enemy rushing force, he gave his own firearm to one of his men and fought on vigorously against the companies respond both in a large measure of the stock of his sectors, gallants resistance, Twenty three December captain L Rod led his men with bold a graphic aggressiveness until he fell mortally wounded. His superb skill, as a pilot daring leadership and unswerving devotion to duty. Distinguished him. Among the defenders of wake island and his valiant conduct, X, the highest credit upon himself and unit it states naval service. He gallantly
gave his life for his country. Signed Harry S. Truman, That is, the medal of Honor citation for Henry Talmud L Rod the first aviator in world war, two to be awarded the medal of honor. The first man to sink a warship from a fighter plane during the Battle of weak, I wonder if you don't know anything about the battle of weak island. It began sign, tediously were with the attack on Pearl Harbor when that started, and it ended on Twenty three December nineteen forty one went away Eric and forces were forced to surrender. The night was with around five hundred american servicemen and they had a handful of coastal
artillery pieces and a handful of anti aircraft guns and they had twelve aircraft. And what they were facing was to two thousand five hundred japanese infantry, supported by it cruisers, eight destroyers to patrol boats to troop transports to Eric two aircraft carriers with all their planes and too heavy cruisers, so completely outnumbered and completely and utterly out gun. But they held out for fifteen days. And while they were under that siege on it,. One eighth of December, while the Jap these were preparing for their final attack. Major l rod got out one last letter to his wife, and I want to read that to you.
Saturday, twenty December nineteen, forty one, my dearest, Darling sweetheart. I never suspected this afternoon when I wrote my other short note that I would be in down writing another tonight. But here we are. Just got in a few minutes ago and have just learned that won't Belarus returning and he has kindly consent to deliver this personally. So I am very thankful for the moment, Of course, there is a lot of news that I can write about Probably no more real news than I do anyhow, missing you terribly and I am undergoing a few new experiences, but also as everyone else.
You ve had considerable rain today and it is still cloudy. The wind has been very low, however, the whether on the whole is nothing to complain about, but I would like to see a good old fashioned ties. Food sweep, listen higher area. I imagine there is an awful lot of whitewashing going on now in high places. It certainly will be criminal shame if they succeed in covering over everything. I am writing this in some of a hurry, and We are somewhat difficult circumstances. I think a million things that I should have said after I had gone to bed tonight, but now I'm going say that I love you and you alone. Always and always and repeated a million times or so
my love to marry also between the two of you, you have it all there isn't any for anyone else. I know that you are praying for me and I have nothing more to ask then that your prayers be answered. Yours, devotedly and loving tell much And so I think it's important that when you hear that letter, you recognise the fact that this is this is a man
and of course we always remember that. These men, we call them. We call them heroes deservedly so we do that to honour them, but I think Important to always remember that these heroes, their people, their people,. And these men, these heroes, these Marines, these people, that held the line. L, the line for fifteen, before they were forced to surrender after losing forty nine Marines killed two missing in action. Three Navy personnel killed seven U S civilians killed and by the
japanese losses- were recorded eight hundred and twenty killed with over three hundred wounded destroyers lost most thirty japanese aircraft, shot down or damaged, but the odds in the. Ratio of force was just stacked against the: U S forces Darwin, and when you get into a situation like that, a dire situation of violence Situation: situation where you are facing a determined enemy. There is a bond that forms between people. Regardless of where therefrom or what the background is, what
their socio economic classes or what service there were. None of that matters there's a bond forms that can not be broken, and we certainly had that in the battle remedy. U S army soldiers! United States Marines see. Or seals of task unit, brute browser, all of us that were in that fight had that bond. We were brothers.
And tonight I am honoured to have one of those brothers here with me and he's Marine Corps, aviator fighter pilot, who also did time as a forward air control or on the ground, and we ve talked about that in many of the books that we reviewed and the poor. Gasped, where you have a marine corps pilot whose now on the ground with the troops. Usually in one of the most forward positions, because they have to know where the troops are out of that air conditioned cocked it and into the sweat in mud on the ground. In this this
pilot as named Coco team leader who, with his team, conducted dozens and dozens of missions with tacky the bruiser in Ramadi, and I talked about bringing them on the show, and so here he is tonight. Lieutenant colonel, almost retired David Burke Dave Welcome to the podcast, and thank you for coming on. Thanks for having me man going to be here, So we have two before we talk about what we went through together. We have to learn a little bit about you, where you guy came from what you did and how you went from being from being a. Or pilot, but not just a pilot, a top gun pilot does the doctrine pilot but but a top gun instructor, which is
just incredibly selective, as could be one of the most selective things in the world right. Her arms Dublin. Pilots are there about twenty five at a time, every three years kind of rotate through small group. Here, So that's ridiculous and in But then you know you thought, maybe I'd you need to get out for a little bit more, so you can go. Do an Aeropostale we'll get into that, but we'll start off with with where you came from a little bit about your background it how you end up saying you know what I think I want to do be in the marine corps go so I actually grew up around here. My parents moved out here to San Diego and a spot year and a half years old, I won't have years old and between here and Orange County I drew up so California for not While that of exotic shouted, I dont have you no tuna, crazy memories. I was pretty quite kid as good kids. School got along with most folks Buddha
we're gonna my parents got divorce is basically to me my mama, my sister for a while, and I lived in a town called L Toro, and what happened to be very close to where I grew up with a marine base is a fighter Bay and there was a kid I pose there and late seventies and it is, they had at four phantoms and a force in a six isn't just cool jets at the time, and so, I went to the airshow every year about there and I think it was no jugglers Read, I could see it every day and I think that has got my blood a little bit. I went to El Toro. High school went to the airshow, probably every year from my six years old tilted down the base closed down, no joke, I mean it was just part of my life. And I met some people on the way to those little Marines live and parasites and powerful influences that gonna gotta me towards that. I'm sure gonna get into this causes birdy and free conversation around fourteen unsafe watches, obscure movie called the
guns radon tropical rain man. Watch movies. A kid saw, did finer points of carriers shoot nutmegs like I want to do that and probably have by far Tina at a pretty good idea. That's what I wanted to do it did you make them action between school and AIDS and all that stuff, because a lot of people saw that movements and I want to be a top gun violet, but I'm still gonna slack often do whatever I want in, not you know, play hooky and all that somehow you made that connects. It's not shown the movie right. They didn't show people studying hard in school cuz that would have not sold allotted tickets- I did eventually may, when I watch that movie, I think, there's something. I've always been interesting. Aviation's kind of cultivating when you see planes flying around and get seen the airship suitable angels. I contest that he can't help. Oh look up and watch. That's up. It's cool. I would say that my performance in the academic arena
Was slightly less than stellar I was I did find, but I had no real motivation to do anything. I wasn't a brutal driven kid to to work really are a kind of discovered that, if I put in very little, I was okay and if I want to do really well how to put in a lot of effort had made much of a connection, but I got a little older. You know now watch the movie, I think, there's a part of a lot of different things, but about the time I was sixteen a cow junior, your high school, as I got some other influences of my life. What based one is again, an urban sort of work and a target around the corner from thousands of marine there, and I just said my parents forced out of step that I was there and can come and gone, to a really big father figure, my life and a real positive influence and a marine which was great, and he explained more things about what it's like to be a marine. He he's the one who made the connection for me that all that stuff, you saw him as you can actually do that for real the brink or you can do that as a marine, and it was not just a movie, that's a real
someone's living life right now, and you can do that and I remember coming home cannot sell my mom. I came on sixteen June high school and thinking about being a marine corps the which need no military. My background nobody'd ever done anything like that, and her answer was a sound you should do that. I mean just a hundred percent and she had a very similar approach in everything ever every idea. Rather my life, but I run by my mom- is equal, I'm going to do it might as well be you that was kind of a reproach to everything I want to be a fireball drink or something to be. It might as well be you and that's about the time I kind of started my staff together, I wasn't a mass but by any stretch, but I was a little bit just gonna running through. I do my bank being to get, and I certainly think I was lucky because I knew with great detail about sixteen and change what I wanted to do. I mean I knew I wanted to be a marine corps of eighteen pilot basins at a gallop.
At last carers and that's exactly end up doing so. At that time, everything I started to do from there was with that kind of singular focus of of circling back. To do that. I haven't I want be stationed at El Toro night. I had a rule specific plan, all the things I sort of doing from their school in the car it as well go into the marine recruited as I wanted to join the marine corps being altered the Marine corps, all those things you're very specifically towards that goal, not as a ton a whore hurdles between time, you're, sixteen atomic gonna. Commissioner, twenty one, everything else that I did in my life was either a distraction I just got rid of. I wasn't school but ourselves through the nearest college in other the local state school that I live, close to a job to school dynamic, a real big exotic. All his life was in return, your job to school, dynamic, a real big exotic, all his life wasn't fraternity, then go to school my way through a school
got a good education. I worked really hard to try to do well, but was all specifically designed to European Marine Corps, be repeated college graduate. You need to be a college graduate right I can do that. I can do that. You were going to college. Ok, lords goes college damages caused how much we need to work. Did them ass. It were. My life from about that time, I sort working like in a magazine evoked a target as a kid our to target from the time has fifteen and having a work permit from school. To the time that I, my commission in the Marine corps, and I went to school in Gaza golden Monday Wednesday, my mom was a guidance counselor and a teacher, so she helped me build a scheduled. I could graduate as fast as possible, which is exactly lawyers as all their money on Wednesday and half a day friday- and I worked to say there is a front Saturday, Sunday, the money I pay, I get paid, went to my tuition. My tuition went to my education, education, Gummy, commission, rigour in that was got it. I mean in some ways you look back. I'm probably could a diversified a little bit at that
I wasn't unhappy I was. I was stoked man. I was exactly what I wanted to be doing. There was no like man. I wish I could be doing this if it wasn't a chore by any stretch like retrospect. Apologetic done things a little bit differently, but seventeen all day, Burke, eternal Day, Burke New Zack we wouldn't want to do, and I had sorted talk myself and do it like any detour. That's gonna throw off your path, man and you're gonna. What back with her written go. You know why you didn't have been what you want to be. It is that, and I wasn't gonna let that happen, so I cannot he's got a little intense about, about a drink or ensure enough. It understood luck involved is renewed it. When you go to tv S, which is the basis on which all marine officers go through. You you have to. Still. We ignore or get that bill at the young on. Then you got that button not good gone totally mass sideways. There's a lot of luck involved. I think every body in the military and everybody has been successful
the notary, nosey. Looking back in your career, you know it's a conference of a lot of different things, but timing, circumstance and luck. There are part of it without a doubt you, nobody can take credit for everything they ve done and if I went back again. The odds organ out the way their debt are pretty slim there's a lot of things it worked out in my favor. But you know I went to us. Yes and I went to the Marine corps recruiter sort of my freshman year costs at Fort and as a set of seventeen when a sort of college went to their current. They wandered through the called an ozone officer selection, also space. We recruit of Rogers. I wanna be marine right on stuff that's paperwork, but at the paperwork, one of the accounts. As a biscuit no problem, wouldn't we can make that happen. Sign this ground contract and what does make it out at some point. The fusion was over those you that no, no that's big lie.
Nothing happened. Dad easy he's has ground to a contract. Of course the Marine Corps needs pilots and guys to infantry, and so but they need more infantry than they need pilots, and so they say I don't worry about it. You sign up for ground right now will take care that other pilot you'll be pie, have cordial ticker that later it will destroy in over, should maybe you know factor and at seventeen I'm and I was signing paperwork to be immoral, after that was as a big step for making out in up. I would sign anything, Happily sign that after my freshman, your college, I went to ascertain at school and to be honest with you, and I had all these big grand ideas for the last two to three years. I knew what I wanted to do, but when I went to Josie S out the first real hurdle whenever they also that idea a plan, some paperwork I get to the african and schools like ok, throw Roma Indrawn, shutters criminology. You know you're really doing the deed therein getting through us. Yes, was a big thing for me because it was the first real test of
and I knew it I wanted to divide- knows to diagnose real sense of ahead. What was required to be marine, and I think, as a kid you build up, what that is in your mind, is larger than life thing. How could anybody possibly do? There's? U turn it into something more it is. When I went to boot camp there was there was a Navy seal, their right and I swear when I saw him outside news huge. I mean huge, giant for arms in just a big massive guy. A just look like stronger of human life- oh my god! So, fast forward for years on end the teams- and I meet this guy- he's not at all and is completely in my head. It was completely in my head. This guy was such a destroyer, but I just thought a he's, a seal he must be a destroyer night. I actually saw it that way but it certainly that age I mean those. Those things are real: powerful influences
And you get those yes and almost suddenly go man anyway. I did make this happen, and I was a big big achievement. I daresay I can do this. Ok, I started to realize the biggest guy in the marine corps. Nobody, no mistake me for a destroyer, but what I discovered as I got there I knew mentally. What I wanted to do was an oral question mark about my intentions for my desires and Austria by tough straw. Kids? You know young kids, my age that are trying to be There's an that's. That's a physical and mental challenge. There's no, doubt about it, and I was seeing guys gonna left and right of me that looked at least bigger, faster, stronger, tougher and more capable them. They looked like that that same image, amateur mine and I'm watching this- I'm kind of fall out of stuff. We're not finished up fast enough registry. Quit you guys would do or drop on request Elsie S, and I was kind of looking around thinkin. What's you know
what's going on you. Why are you here if your plan wasn't dead, get through it? So that was a good really good thing for me, psychologically to realise that it wasn't just a kind of a fantasy or a jury like I had had the potential been able to do this so I got through CS yachts, Galva Painful past as you know it's eighty four days it can be, it can be slogan. You lose a lot of folkestone of Rural or was it is never reason. Some people get hurt. Some people quit some people. Just can't do it we get on the backside of that like I can. I can make this happen. Let's get that our contract well get to that are contract. If the basic school so, which is when you get your commission, you finish school, you get a degree finish off again and schools are basically say you ve done everything that you need. Your commission also became a second time in the Marine corps in June Nineteen. Eighty four and the first thing you do it on active duty- is a brain duty, isn't go to something called the bases school and I have talked about it a few times. It's basically us
or for the Marine Corps teaches offers a little bit of everything doesn't need you everything of anything, but you get a little exposure to infantry exposures. Tanks artillery call for fired little exposure aviation patrolling defence, often see you gonna get all in the land and hope pointed out for the marine corps. Is you go? There were two to fifty people and they gotta give each one of those people an assignment. You know a particular job and Emily S specialty and they rank you. I mean you are ranked from one, the two hundred and fifty and for aviation. When I got there remember getting in the first week, they kind of announced what bill it's going to be a bill available. I won't have you no forty infantry slots and twenty two year. They just tell you kind of what we expect. Of breakdown and from there you're supposed to go back and think about what you want to do that to pilot slots. Unlike man out of some rough math, you know church Fifty folks are not all tuned to fit. You wanted to be a pilot. Obviously not not. All two to fifty people were qualified with their eyes and what not sure it wasn't competing with you and your fifty p.
But there's a lot of people who want to be a pilot so the math was certainly not in my favor, and that was another challenge of yeah. You got to do well when you get rent and graded on everything, physical, fitness, your leadership, ability or academics. You get peer reviewed. You know your peers weight, you and you're, not they think you so you got basically six monster get after it and at the end, they line you up to two fifty people in a line not is a real line and you walk into a room on the room, there's a board and whatever It is available you can pick now tuna, fifty folks, you know eighty eighty eighty or something around there, the number one guy thinks than their number. Eighty one, You know eighty eighty eighty or something around there, the number one ethics, then the number eighty one guy picks and of the number hundred and sixty one guy picks whatever it is. Then the number two got pics The only job in the marine corps that they did not quality spread was of the basics who was pilot. So there's gonna be the first to Gaza
at the gate they wanted it that or qualified we're gonna get it and I got the number to spot. So, Again it was one of those things out. Starting in my mind, realize I was I can do this built the thing up. What I wanted to do, where I'm twenty one now you're twenty two, I think actually so it six years of my life. It I've been sort a singularly dedicated do in its answer that day, where they my platoon commander. John Marian I'll, never forget it. He was an F eighteen pilot brings with it office like Dave, is going gonna, be a pilot ending, as I think you can fly America's airplane we can apply the voting order. It was an awesome day. Man and I won't. I will never forget it, and that was it in. I got my my ticket, I when I, when I was selected for pilot. I was right, I think, like number eight and to intervene, do you my company, and by the time I graduated like three weeks later. I was like twenty five. Two fifty so much
Performers might have declined a little bit after I had achieved when the theory of no slot yeah. There was a little slap in that why that line was pretty tight, fer a lotta years. Have you got it so little bit slag there at the end, but I did finnish well enough to get that pilot which is what I always wanted. It was kind of my dream for years at that was April of ninety ninety five, so I started the basic school in October of ninety four. Whenever I get, a gradual college in June will delay to get down at Quantico for the basic school a six month long. I graduated sometime MID April well, but this time ninety five so and then he would fight school yeah. You do the rag do all that stuff to get out to squadron than the first kind of work. We're. Doing was with southern watch right yeah, so I get your fly, schools
into picking up 18th, I get stationed at El Toro, so I am literally live in the dream. I move back my hometown to like my ten year, high school reunions and yeah. I told all my buddies. You know what I wanted to do. Ran into some people haven't seen in awhile lose, it was good, and shortly after I got there, actually flew the last flight at El Toro. They close the base and all the Marines moved out of Miramar, so the Navy were talking was in all its back. In the day the Navy left Santiago move back east in the Marine corps happily took, were that base, and so I moved down to mere more ended up in innovating, squadron, safe. The mere more flyin hornets off carriers. Straight up living reality. You mean actual dream. You are now living it. Yes, that's that's that exact right: women in San Diego was Lebanon, P, b of copper and am. Station murmur, fine origin and the carrier that I was assigned to my first point.
Operators out and watch so I watch debtors Norman ninety one on tv housing, brethren in college, and we know we hadn't we have done much in the military since then, but we had found every single day since that war ended in. I wasn't march of ninety one room. Every single day. Since then, we flew patrols over Iraq to make sure that this guy's were clear and we are enforcing the no flies Golf wine combat operations over southern Iraq. Did you ever dropping bombs? I did ya. Few of us did not attend there. Wasn't Congo nobbut what we would do. These things called response options of them, dropping bombs. I did a few of us did not a ton of wasn't a ton going on with what we would do. This thing called response options with that racket would do something I think in my case they set up a surface to air missile south of a of a line that they weren't supposed to be in. We had surveillance and told us what was out there, and I want you to mention on a samsonite, listen to go to jail at the time as it was in the palm guided by GPS, which at the time was
brand new, encourage videos, crazy technology. I think we're on the only planes in their territory that could do because we have this thing called a gps super fancy back then, but but at the time talk about was combat. Alfred was that was, there was no other show in town and so then dropped a bomb on SAM site in Iraq. A carrier and enough eighteen negative. You could have, just retired out there were down you're, the girl was it. I can come back to that. It could have for me off the ship, and I would add that a happy man at that point. I was like that's it. I have. I have reached critical mass, that's all I ever wanted to do so. It was some again a lot of it was just things work out of my favorite, but I did exactly two wanted to do in that event was was kind of time sore the pinnacle. That was what I thought I was gonna chief Yemen is the same thing in the dry years. For this Europe seems, like a view, did some kind of mission you We're just super Stoke D. You know we were over in the past golf actually same time. Two thousand and ninety. Ninety thousand I was there. I was an approach,
often we were doing you know me: operations. We stop and smile there is coming out of Iraq to we were taken down vessels and control of women again at the time. Superstar Yes, the big mission was taken on these vessels in was pretty goin away or school was cool, but you didn't have any anything to compare it to at all. So what happened? So I get back from that deployment. That's the summer summer of teeth. Opened and shortly after that, I got selected by my committee- ought to go to top gun. So that's why Where's exposure to kind of advancing sighed the squatters as a young I'd done almost two years in the squadron. I've been there for a little while, and I got some coffee since and grew in developing the squadron, and they pick one or two every couple years for me squadron to go to the school Don't want to go in there to you, learn and has advanced just like a master's degree. Basically, in in being a fighter pilot with the antenna, you can bring that back to the squadron and be one of the Kentucky trainers. A key leaders in the squadron song with the top gun,
early, the next year, summer of age, about a year later so summer, two thousand one I gotta top gun. I came back We are just in a work. I was shocked to top gun Just arenas you feel like having, especially as you are, the big bad that with your arms dropped and you feel like you're, pretty much a complete stud yeah, and then you shoulda top gun and the instructors just can completely, and I were indeed this further. You don't know it's it's. You learn how dogfight mono e mono against another guide, another plain likes doc car racing, because the planes are equal and its view. Against the other guy and it was actually call you explained in some of the rules. Now you set it up and they have you know, and you did sir. You know you, you you hey what unity we, you start standing, no shake hands pompous workin out on what with the top gun, they started a certain distance. They they go towards each other at a certain altitude. Certain distance away from each other they go, they pass at a thousand feet You know left left wing
left wing and then what they passed. They say. Would you say game on fire on fines on fides on any book? Now it's got so that's how they start in a neutral position and in of course, when you show up there, it's just like you did Jujitsu in the fact that. Like a guide. It did a little the training somewhere and then they should better Jujitsu place and they're gonna get totally destroyed. So he shows up. You show up at this thing end and you think you're again, big guy bad that use good, annihilated totally so yeah I get, I had dropped a bomb were I dropped upon bomb, and I was as because big deal, I do they dropped a bomb you know. It's all the time I was some of the instructors had never done that before I most of em argues that there's the dryers. It just wasn't a ton going on United Story here and there, but think more than anything. In my own mind, you're gonna build up I'll, get some game here. Man I'm watch this. You nominate, do good work here and I done well enough for my squadron and I was one of the guys I get paid to go to school
which is another little confidence. Booze ideas egos getting worse fared, maybe a little bit yeah you're feeling What about yourself? And so you go up there and I like, like you, said so, You know you're you're, a student. You know you're, not gonna in Iraq, go to the instructors. But will you dont know? Is it you're not just gonna lose You're gonna get you're not going to lose a good annihilated, you're, not even know what happened it's going to be over or going to come to flying back and before you going to Landon and you're, not explain what just occurred mean it and it occurs in a way that is so it's hard to explain its like you weren't there it is really it's humbling. I'm in Jacko we're talkin the very first flight on the very first day, my very first event, the very first fight of the first flight It was over and like twenty seconds in instructor, was saying: ok what they call this a knock it off when we're done when a start and set up again and any
then I was totally over my head with the very first one, and it was so. My first light was always so bad but when I landed we're walking, back in to you. Gotta mate into new, basically go back, turning your point back in, and so they can fix it. You spoke just walk closer to them John Hangar and talk about it. I'm in my gear and exposed to get undressed at your flight. You're going I hated dont get undressed and are we going? what are we just go? Do that again, it was bad and after we didn't even need to talk about it. We just need to just say and he's ok wonders just take a deep breath. Man and we went and did that flight without ever without or even talking about them. One right. So I got a new I was I have some work to do so top gun is, is really good about it just humbling you, but obviously tv you, a town, it's it's! It's a six at the time is only six weeks for the Marines, because we didn't do some of the soldiers of the Navy. Did because we got it elsewhere and it's sick
Sixty eight of you on the front on the blue side, the friendly side against in our fifteen twenty simulated adversary. So it's it's a what in a short period of time and that idea being really bad when you start happens over and over again in the course of you get to the one b, one phase that idea being really bad when you start happens over and over again in the core, so you get the one day, one phase and at the end I got finally got this. One be one thing I got this wire. I can do this late hour. I called gonna go to against wherein you just get rolled again and you like to square one, so it build you out and breaks down billion standard military grew notice, breaks down your pieces and then that guy's there that instructors are so their odyssey really good mean that part is sort of speaks for itself, the really good in the airplane, but what makes them unique, as at their exceptional teachers, see you learn it So, at the time by the time you finished up guy that that image in the mirror. We like manic that disaster the get shattered its actual back together by the time you leave as you,
like you got that patch, your shoulder, you fly back and get the patch. In the last day you get up in your airplane. F. Eighteen, with my name, pain on the side of the top and back of my food murmured, the adriatic and better dream is getting better. But there's been enough reminders like I should probably maybe cool out a little bit you start to does learn that there's always guys out there. That is significantly better than you in and you d keep climbing up the hill, but fear in talking to us. Do you feel like you at the top of the mountain, but you realized the guys you been working with there's an awful way to go. You at least know what you dont know: yeah, that's a great way to put it. You know what you don't know a line that you dont know, and so a kind of spells all this feeling yoga defy school. Why? I finish? What's going out of eighteen, I really got this flying thing nail and each year your barely functional in your point to these other guys, don't get to play I taught gonna just such a concentration of talent. You,
It goes. It feels you actually, the thing you get the most out of some key naughty because you just got crushed for six weeks crush crushed. And of we learn something out of it. You specific that back and indeed the guys in your squadron, although same lessons, since my expectation was going to go back from top gun, I've just been another two years. Eighteen months in the squadron, is a sign of the singer instructors and then go on to something else, and I didn't know exactly what that was at the time. But as I'm leaving milk jug job my last day and remember, the guy who asked me such are the same guns. Do my retirement in a couple months is, I came out of you thought about come back to be an instructor talkin after this tour. Your squad was over and I gotta play a cool. I gods element when we go unthinkable, but clearly there was it think about their. So I left with cabin inclination that I might get asked back and us pretty stoked about that and they didn't formalize it, but He was a singer IP on the staff has seen a marine there as well a rural respect again,
aviation and he had Gimme a set doubts. I was hoping that I was gonna happen, but I ask but had time. I thought I was here this July, two thousand one and obviously you know six weeks later, nine eleven hits and so all all that calculus gonna changed and very quick. My squadron, which was on the regular cycle of preparing to go to war, was gonna, be another southern watched appointment just like we did that whole thing had changed because it because the September eleven to what happens on September. Eleventh for you, you were active in a squadron get ready for work in the morning total at home, I'm station right up. The road here in five miles. North of here is Marine Corps AIR Station Miramar. I'm on my second half of my first tour as a pilot, I have eighteenth watered down that one deployment, numb Add a routine down and I was getting up as probably I guess he was going to five in the morning, I'm sitting the foot of my bed waiting on my boo, so I can get every day to just get in the car and driving to work and click on the TV and UIC.
Eight o clock back Easter around the time and I see what's going on and I think you don't seem to have one can a piece it together very quickly. Okay, this is it an accident. This is something you really happening here. You see the second building and it very quickly gonna, clicks and like this is the real thing. And I knew I knew some. I knew you were going to go to war. I didn't know what altitude to know the details, but I knew things are going to change really dramatically. As matter fact, you know my drive to work, which normally would have taken me, ten minutes or whatever fifteen minutes, something some short drive to get up into, base. It was like three hours get on the base and other inspecting every vehicle. You know every cargan pull over dodgers and you know the whole nine yards just the security issues the chaotic he was gonna mayhem, and am drive into my squadron and half of my squadron had already not half, but a good number guy's, an artist been up to Fallon, which is where we're gonna go for training the same place. A talkin is it just part of a normal training cycle and my skin
how to get rid of the timer. An awesome guy called me cuz. He got up there and I was supposed to bring the canopy part of the second half of that went up there. He's like a man you need to go brief. You're gonna be the leader of a ship of aircraft. We don't know the details EP organised, going to call you they're gonna find live. Ordnance and you're gonna have to fly an emission of an air patrol commoner Patrol mission count of the cap. There are still a bunch airliners that were still airborne coming in from places like TAT, and in Korea, these long haul, new, twelve thirteen fourteen our flights there's a whole bunch, when's airborne and- and we didn't know if those there's potential issue with those are points you know, if they're going to do the same thing back east, if it did at West total care in- and I just recently created from talking so I was heats. I get you the leaden and we don't have We do know the mission was amateurs, basically one of those things where we're supposed to get airborne.
Somehow between us and some other control of, and it cannot determine if a particular aircraft might have been a threat, and I was happening all over the country. People were in their aircraft, Airforce Navy. Pilot, or just a launching, to do these protection missions of what end up becoming something called operation, Noble Eagle, which started on September 11th- and it was just aviation over watches of key cities and and key locations, and we are totally Louis on what that was not who I did have not launching the didn't happen. You nobody did the brief or get ready to go. And it was a kind of a moment of chaos, of we're on our heels in talking didn't prepare me for that? I didn't have a sense of what it has to do with an airliner filled with civilians on some rout coming from Japan and China forgot what I do if somebody said hey that aircraft we figured out that aircraft is going, try to fly a building or or crash into an airport airports got. It was just here, he's gonna, mayhem and, and it was
those to start the idea being that if that is suspected of happening or taken from alcohol, that's gonna happen Then you or what are your mates is gonna have shoot down a civilian aircraft? That's it you're be indefinitely out of their thinking. It yeah equally in, and that was something I'd never considered. Others on anybody had considered know that point and ivory There's some, neither some I was actually ended up launching out in the east coast of red. A couple articles apposite took off internet sixteen year in DC is obviously you use with the Pentagon up in DC in New York City that actually dig. Airborne and there they had missions to do, exactly that So in some sense I was pretty lucky that I didn't have to go through that calculus, but I still can picture I'm sitting, given that brief with three other pilots can like we're sitting today and and ask ourselves like well. What do you mean how do you shoot down an airliner? You know what? What would we actually How do we determine you know we're talking about trying to talk through that
and the idea that the net wonder, filled with civilians, and we knew that point that those other launderers, regular commercial airplanes. I just took off again their flight and they crash when everybody on on You know you survive that, and so here's a very strange way to start what ended up being kind of a cycle of war that in we ve all been through for years now on the morning of get. Call from the CIA this what you're doing- and you know that the beginning shore we very shortly that rat within a day or two now. Actually, I think power that late afternoon, enshrined by the next day my squadron, was one of the several squatters. It was time to go back out on the carriers whispered, the squadron, a half that same ceo, that call me he took guys from Fallon Flu, the ship on under the carrier right off it Ellie, and I still we we talk about the second pictured it de. I took off at San Diego and swine overhead, LOS Angeles International Airport, and we had guys it take off in the carrier that had live missiles and they are doing a cap and I'm flying
opposite direction, overhead, a wax looking down and in I grew up. Ozanna cover We actually one of the busiest airport in the world's planes all over the top on the run ways on the taxi ways. Khazars everybody landed. Nobody took off, there's no controllers and they're doing this cat. Mission with just flying overhead a wax candles. Thirdly unknown, what's going on, and just that moment of sir reality of our airborne nobody else and nobody else, wine and we're disordered is waiting for something to happen and you know it's kind of one of those who you'll get your you'll get more specific instructions ass? we figure it out. You know the leadership was with scrambled every bit as much as we were and cannot looking down thinking. This is This is a whole new world. Youtube is not so I can watch. You know that that mission we've been doing and within maybe six weeks we we steamed out waiting when we loaded the carrier a couple months. Early but the squadron of the whole air wing that on board the other carrier and and steam out towards the north
turn golf to go: do what we called his operation enduring freedom, so late, two thousand and one a thing: cuz, maybe November two thousand and one we're going to war and Afghanistan where the war was. You remember that at the time that was it, there was nothing else going on. We to Afghanistan, I did a seven month cruise on a carrier from November of two thousand and one I think we came back April may of two thousand and two and did combat operations over Afghanistan in the U Haul, in a lot more organs and a lot busier. We did a mission at the Times operation anaconda, I'm going to ask you about that was like the largest ground defensive with sports is desert storm, in April people were may about two. We thought we would sort of largely won the war. We felt we accomplish most of our mission. We left thinking, hissing
winding down we're feeling pretty good about it, and when I got back in May about two, I can't I distinctly remember like I had my war experience. He as a pilot in combat, I done southern watch watch, but obviously you know nothing like this, and but I'd I'd done a combat deployment off a carrier supported troops on the ground in Afghanistan, dropping bombs and finally, a kind of thought that was it. I think a lot of us did. The lot of us did. I know I thought that may come back from my first deployment of Iraq. I was kind of you and thankful that I got to do this deployment Anna thought. The again go on that much longer, but I mean really quickly it after we got back if it did it spiraled- and I said oh this- this going to be a while yeah big time. While I was on that deployment, I got an email from top gun, saying A1,
next summer being instructor, so I came back in May of that deployment, knowing that my next step was going to go back up to Fallon, so I was feeling pretty good about that. It was pretty fun to know what was next and you know in that that time I came back. You know I'm packing up that summer, moving out in the in the fall and already the gears are starting at for what entropy an operation iraqi freedom, it's the writing is on the water. This is were not done. I mean we're, really just get started. It was several MA before that all kicked off. I think everybody in the military certainly knew this is which way it's going to happen, and I think there was some things along the way that we're supposed to occur, but we all knew this was coming. So you know in March of the following year: it wasn't a big surprise, any of us, and I was a profound kind of watching the whole thing rolling. I realize that I'm at the point that I just finished was not the end of you know what what we're doing is a country have to deal with this problem and then you show up at top gun to be an instructor, which is
said the going to top gun was like a masters, and so now it's it's beyond a doctorate right emanates yeah. We say it's. The PH d him in and in our business, yes, certainly is a firm rain or a naval aviator firepower, that's that's it top gun. Conor represents at the school house. It's it's the place where you want to be, and isn't it doctor, you have, you have a huge responsibility. It's a bunch of sort of middle mid career guys. It's it's Navy lieutenants its Marine Corps, and maybe a junior major adrenal junior lieutenant commander, but it's run by relatively young guy got to be a full deployment of the bell and you know quickly guys are coming and having an Afghanistan operations guys coming having done I've Iraq covered operation, so in the time that I was there from two to five. The combat experience on the staff. When from basically none too little guy every single dude had been in combat. It was coming off along the point where they had done back to back diplomas, Iraq and Afghanistan.
Single person on the staff at sea and combat like that. So these actions season, guys we're just one generation three years prior not a single person on the staff had seen and combat like that, So these axiom thing in this field themes we experienced the exact same thing, went from zero close to zero, combat expressing there's a odd guy that had done loomed up, fish near there to everything oh guy, except for the new guys, you know in it but you're you're learning curve, but when you show back up there, it was just a steep is the first time yet without a doubt so when there is a student, don't understand a lot of what's going on as a student, at least I mean shut your side. You know they're not trying to keep anything from me, but you're, just you're so busy just trying to keep your head above water. You not spend a lot of time one. What the instructors instructors are during the freedom in your just prepping, for every brief in the flight may taken or what you put in ten hours of work at a time and you d brief for six hours when you're done, you need to go
start the next prep process again for you, so you are just all day every day. Thinking about your next flight and getting ready for that and the things and so in your endeavours. Deep as a student, when you get there is an instructor and I didn't know, at the time you get there. When you there's an instructor, you use certainly been select. You're pretty elite group of folks, but you don't teachers, students at tappin when you're in a structure for a year. They spent an entire year with you as an instructor. There's only one our guys on the staff, and so a third of you basically, because to do the math wash her for an entire year, just going through it's called. We call the eye, you D, the instructor under training and their just teaching you how to teach students and in that year, you're now flying all different training missions with the instructors are training, you'd, be instructor and your in again so whole continuum of pretty good. You reminded very quickly.
So it takes an entire year now. The good news about that is about the time. Your finishing your initial shorter qualification. You can go, teach students, you have been flying more than you ve ever phoning your territory, I'm point to three times a day. Sometimes, for a year so you're just getting reps and wraps and wraps, and you have got more rubs, I think, than anybody in aviation. Some of the time you get your first student sit down to very for student, if you're a game has been elevated in a quite a bit and your able to fly with students and too them way more effective, weakest peck. When I finish top gun, I went to have Ganis and I didn't do a single air mission for almost a year I was dropping bombs are doing. Ass in all those other type emissions. When I got there, how was I was pretty rusty on their skill sets a year. A fine within shuttle will resolve this disease the amount of flying that you get going to do to recall Matt Time, but but for a normal pilot you're, not even getting
a fraction of that right, a fraction yet not oh you're, not getting a fraction of it. A lot of the time that you are flying is when you're, not a top gun is even sometimes you go out and find his fine tune from different places. Sometimes you just pressing for very particular mission. You know it takes a skilled in the mission to get ready to drop bombs or do arm reconnaissance are different types of flying. You don't get to see all that. You get to see a very narrow, top gun yet exposed to everything repeatedly, and so that one against one that we talk about, that we can be a firm basic fighter. Maneuvers was his just une another guy fighting to airplanes. You do that a ton, but you you do all the other things just as much so you get exposed to the Phd part of it. Isn't just the rhapsode. That's critical, but is that you get exposed to this new once part of aviation?
just didn't even really know existed. So you you get all the science all the math, all the things that drive us to say this. Why we do the things we do and just get to practice it over and over, and then you go back to the signs are good at think. There's some pause here. Maybe some differences here the guy that top in the one writing the manual. We literally write a manual to four in thick of all these different chapters of how to fly the airplane. Everything from doing one against one to dropping a bomb to mission planning top gun owns it, and so I was given a chapter in a book and a lecture that I was responsible for and that the thing it was pretty amazing for me when I got there, the mission set that I was responsible for my my Smee area, my subject matter extra area was, your air threaten counter tactics, so I was the guy as a captain in the Marine corps that was responsible for hiding the chapter teaching the lecture and establishing our tactics rather defeat threat. Surface air missiles in Tripoli, and this was from
a number of two thousand to two March, two thousand three that I was the guy that established the Navy recourse procedures and techniques. We did that and taught that. So you know desert sorry? I have kicks off. You know guys it on with it form within train with around and appointed to write me letters hate we're seeing this threat. What what shall we do here, but he's a mind that I've been grown up in aviation? I'm saying hey: this is what we should do this are. You should deal with this particular case And so the responsibility as an ip having wise. Japan De Type programme is at your lover: sponsible grows it. You have to be more than just a good pilot equanimity, big pilot. They can't teach and explain other guys what they are doing and how to get better. How give them selves alive your kind of useless in combat, so it was a
it was. It was the best day of my life man. It was. It was ridiculous and we just flew everyday to three times a day. I got qualified and sixteen I got the fly totally different airplane, so I was dual Quad, an F eighteen, an antonym sixteen, as a marine on a Navy base in the Navy command after having done to deployment on carriers, I mean you, can I believe I said Jack. I need you to do. Judge you three day, two hundred it every day for three years now and you need that's all I need you to do. I don't need to do anything else. You know it's. I've actually on a back seat. Ride never seen at found as a matter of fact, and in one of the things that I think is important to understand Europe, at least from my perspective, when things it made it really cool was. You getting everything. If you never been in one mostly, will you not can get it it's getting effigy and fly went right, so arguable description of what I thought was one a cool sports about. It is If you look at their structure and of an F eighteen, the the the part that you sit in the car
It is really far forward in the wings in the engine our stuff are behind. You that way when you look at it, but when you get in it you those those wings are so far behind you that you feel like you're in a superhero pot. You could turn it turn hard. You can't just look back to see the wings and it's a glass canopy that surrounds you, so you feel like you're. Just a little pod that is moving at whatever, eight hundred miles an hour, and it's it's a crazy feeling. It's crazy feeling any cause you're it leaving cuz. You just feel like you're in this little space, pod, somehow star wars powering through here, you don't realize it behind you. Is tons of metal and machinery that making this happen, and the g forces and all that stuff. It's it's! It's a very cool, very cool, finger, express for me. I yeah that was awesome. I didn't think twice
man, I should have been a pilot. I there's some theirs I know you we'll talk about it. Yesterday. For you. The connection between man and machine is a really cool thing that you enjoy. For me. I don't like it like to rely on a machine. I even even getting Bradley's and stuff in Ramadi. I always think about you know I mean I know it was apprehensive about a big machine that I had to rely on. I don't want to rely on me and what I could do and that's why I had that little disconnect to always say I still have it today. You know that's why I'm waiting for the robot war cuz I want. I want to fight those so I just have a little disconnect with the machines, but I can see where people that are have that type, a mindset which just deal it's just a complete equalizer, as you were talking about using the is it bought chorus. It's you in the same plane is me and who is better is gonna win pier
That's it. There is really no excuses. You can make yeah that's. What am I favour things has always been one of my favorite things by fine fighters. Is it it's? It's an equalizer, you don't get. You don't bring any advantage to that airplane now for a train, somethin, you and me, there's gas. It are bigger than visitor, better art rate, the guy, whatever theirs. A bunch of ways that me, you can bring an advantage. You lose all that you strap on that airplane cuz. You only go as fast as the airplane goes. You want to pull the money. Jesus airplane pulls it that's what you get now You get a lot of all that stuff, I'm in its awesome, but you success or your failure is one hundred and about how well you interact with that machine and compare that other guy, and if you lose, you know, while my engine know, why didn't have negative you because you are worse than method period and in LE given in order to find reasons why you know you, we record every flight we require a radar record, our information display, so we can go back and dissect and what you
to be able to use. An instructor is rightly That's why you lost decision you made here this move, you want you want this director or you up or down. He decided to go this bitter one. Not you can dissect every single flight and the great instructors, the ones I can tell you. This is why I did this to you in forty five, because here you made a decision me this long to capitalize it, but right now is where I took advantage of a mistake that you made and you free that mistake you put on a tv and they see and they look at and that burns in their brain and they make that mistake over over an oriental. Eventually, they don't make that mistake and then start to make your money is an instructor, but being an airplane. I brought every bit of. Capability that airplane had and I never had it does. No did you don't start a disadvantage, You beat somebody nobody to look at, no excuse. No nothing to blame, except for their own performance, and I loved that, and I will
I love that about being a fighter palate and then you're fine enough. Sixteen now you have a different air point, so he wondered points faster than the other one point she turns better and so now, instead of which is being to totally equal platforms. It's one has particular shite weaknesses different than other ones. So you better be really good about avoiding his strength and getting new in point, has weaknesses, and vice versa, if you lose guess what it still your fault, a hundred percent because instead of you'd, have to Similar airplanes, you couldn't identify, what he was able to do better than and his regime that he has ex meal you're strong, and we find that I wanted you to turn me more agile than you. You know you, quicker than me. Ok, woman. It may be shut up power, you those happy things and those games at you. Can a back and forth. You There is no question at the end of a flight, a top gun but you're fighting another dude, everyone nobody comes back like I, when I did on that when it's all very evident you're. Looking over your shoulder and telling these gunning you with his airplane. You don't go by
the deeper. Thank. I wonder how that I wonder how does a player so it's all right, they're, wait out. The cards are always on the table. There is a reason for everything why you succeed in why you failed, and I just throw in an environment, because you couldn't hide from anything. Everybody saw everything. It was all right there who good student a really good talented student come up to top gun, has what percentage chance of winning. So if, if the best, let's say that I put it to the best student than I ever saw that came to talk and ass, a student from a squadron. The best student ever came to top gun too. A qualified talkin, a shocker stands zero percent chance of winning arena best students at top gun has z RO chance. I could fall asleep in it point as an ip and student is not gonna, be there is just such a huge get at that, It doesn't mean that were better. I don't mean it now that we are better policies, but you just your time. Yet it's time you artist, it's not it's in its
and I'm even mean that critical it is not even close in, and nor would they expect. You know I mean that some students, Rinaldo student card, thinks he's gonna. Do working. I watch this some awesome, but most guy shall realizing that security. I knew I understood I when I got there is assuming these guys are just in a different world. That's you want to get to that world, but It was an ip you with eyes structure, priority power. If I flew my best jet on day, one against the best student. It would be over so fast that he also We need to learn as much as he should say you you still. He that there is a learning process there. If you wanted to somehow it somebody a top gun is that you can do that. The students that good come there even on their last day? Aren't are on under a same level late. They just are they ve got a lot better learning curve esteem, but when you're not
thirty years, and I pay a top gun. You have just had so many wraps in of so many lapse. Doing the exact same thing, you ve seen everything, That is almost like what we talked about this today. It's almost like things are happening in slow motion for you, a gear in the matrix, and that gauges is working as hard as we possibly can do. Any thing- and here is sit. There can watching it s like one. Third speed is our ability to decide and do something to hammered, so did something to that. I want to make a decision. It you're just operate at a faster pace in him. The reaction is just impasse. To keep up with, I can't wait to EAST are trying to get through because you're just gonna the analogies or just everywhere, and that's what I think you just so you can see the future. You can actually see the future when you're saying is you just do is send someone that doesn't know as much as you. You know what is going to happen. You know, you're going to do just like when you in the cockpit and you you do something, and you know what that pays, you know what they're gonna do. I just know it totally and in dont forget to as it is it
an instructor. You ve been on the receiving end of that for years as well. So you understand gonna both sides that coin and If I was someone in your think you're so like I can't, we just did that, and then you know three tongues later is when you get to take advantage of that, because you some time will have to play off her his mistake to really reveal itself like men. Can we just did that, gonna cost you over time and you can go can the tape like his into hate them? You know you're, worried about what But the Enron behind you, but what really? What let me do that was thirty seconds ago. You did this and when this was the environment or that the circumstances and you see stuff, and that real progress in the future. I mean, if you really want to be york about you have Gaza, you, your buddies you don't get on the radio like a buddy of mine, of students that came through but Gaza Musquash unlike can hurt and the like white. What am I stand by you know in thirty seven, later you'll begun in the guy because you see the mistakes that they make and you know how that's gonna play out. So you are
on your own playing field. There is as an instructor and, like I said man, it's not about the better or worse, it's just the time and you get so much of the time there, Are you get exposed to all the the why you get the why a top gun we teach the why a lot, but when you're writing that the manual when you're doing that in your you have all the testing equipment available, you're running a thousand computer at a wretch to see what the results are. The level of what you know about the. Why is just so much more so you just you there's a whole world available to you to an end because it talkin to want to be? There are the most that the IPCC killing to get to a place like that is not a lot of slackers. They re not oughta. Do to China motivated a proud along, like hey Buddy, let's get going introduce are getting after it from start up to shut down every single day and so you're also getting Paul along you wanna keep up with your peers. You know, you know gonna be the worst top gun instructor there. You know every time you think you ve made it. You realize
you did. I just get a more selective poor and go as its aim is to be the best that you can be an offer. The best you can be as one of the best guys there you don't be lasted I've done considered is lasting when we last at anyone who does, and so that nets are real kind about Taipei, law, aggressive group deeds and am very poor and you you gotta, keep up, and sometimes your cup, I guess you're in there don't but for the most part. The selection process works pretty well. Your what school, just to bring this back for a second too, you know could about leadership and interacting with their people. The same exact thing happens when you start to pay attention to the tactics techniques procedures of lead ship. You start to see the moves that people or make it. You know you start to see the moves that you're subordinate is making because his egos, where an upper because he's gettin taken too much ownership of something that he doesn't want to. Let go and get an emotional bothered. You start seeing you start seeing the same type of things, one third speed
and you know that that was great for me when I was run in the West Coast, she'll team training, that's all we take a balloon, we had these scenarios and we put opportune. We put another petition through. We put another petition through. We put another petition through we just over the same scenario, guy here shooter over here person on his heel top hostage in this room. We put all these guys through the same scenario and so as soon as you to promote its need, watch, em approach, and you say up to industry far in the rear. This what's gonna happen is not consumers going to run up there. It is- and so you just know, what's gonna happen and the same thing we start doing with their personalities. You get a guy with a big eagle that comes in and he wants to run everything his way and he thinks it can avail to control everything in your map. He's not can build. Do this, so you can and up and issued the business world. Obviously, now to where you get the same exact problems, a guy, that's too emotion about his plan or has two big of an eagle about something or he's not pass. No word well enough furthered. The eastern control, everyone, not using dissensions MC. It's so obvious.
Because you have the reps. We have the wraps now in this in there arena to be to look at a situation say: ok, he wants us all. Oh ok, you're about to happen. Here's what's going on! We can break it down, so it's the same, across the board, you get that level of just experience. And repetitions and repetitions- and now you can- I need to see the future and you can predict what's gonna happen and then the good thing is in the business world. When you can break what's gonna happen, you can stop it, you don't get the people on the right track, pull him back in and get him arranged. I think the thing that a lot of people don't realize because sometimes I think it's just different in the night, Terry, the reasons why people are successful in the military and the reasons why people fail or exam play the same as why you succeed in business and why you succeed as a person or why you failed. I know you'll be in an airplane, is different. I get that the environment might be a little bit different being come back shortly, so this changes in all these things are setting is different, but the reasons are exactly the same.
And so did a spell- you Matthew, it's different military. Its ideas I want to know if it comes out in an airplane or a comes out on a ship or whatever comes out in downtown Ramada, even the setting yeah it's different, but what's going on it's identical and when you get to you, when you get to be in a place where you get to devote one hundred percent of your time to distracted by just strata of military bureaucracy and and wife of training schedules- and everybody do thereof- their annual survey winner away that, in your is living in a world, is being tactical and doing nothing but learning about how to be the best pal. You can be in the best teacher everything, not just being a fight about everything in the world slows down. Everything slows down, and I think it just gives you a perspective on life. That
talk, and I will carry those lessons I mean. Obviously I care that with me and everything I do and I will forever you know what was haunted a place like that and in some ways in the military, just a lunch, because it's just not that common to first summer saver through years, who's going to do nothing. But this are you kidding me so so We give decision, making and good and or bad decision making. So you live in the dream, live in the joint european foulon. You actually have a house up in the mountains your skin, flyin, everything's, good, an then somehow you make a decision- that's a little bit off the track global rules at all about I don't know. I started so yeah. I am I'm my third year at top gun two thousand five. I was selected by the training officer, so I am running top gun as the singer IP there, which is just
it also means that its aid it is lower than as a marine? It's a dream job. He could not ask for anything. Better. I'd was dating what and becoming my wife, so my wife Whitney at the time we're getting suit lives at the Vienna place. Entitle drove a corvette life was pretty good man and I'm actually coming up on my into service obligation. I can leave the marine corps in two thousand five and eight I sold my relationship to whip me on that idea. Might pay can put up with this living in town, but I'm gonna get out and bring corn door to door about this now This is all its outcome. Don't worry about that deployments! War! Dover! You don't need to worry about that and I think I oversold that to her little beggar to move out to title, and so There was just a part of me that didn't feel done with the Marine corps, and
ugly, in this. This amazing experience it I built up in my mind, since I was sixteen years old. I am now a talking to stronger. I joined the Marine corps, knowing costs as a fortunate with talking his big influence. I wanna leave the marine corps is a topic. But I had spent four years flyin appertains off, errors, basically in then in the Navy, for the problem, purposes as a marine and win squash, but we deployed with NATO, carers and weak, and I spent three years and fallen on an eighty, faced with a Navy command, is one of three pilots on the staff, a top gun. And there was just a part of me that I knew I was gonna be done. I was ready to leave the marine corps, but I wanted to leave the marine corps having fulfilled. I think that part of being marine, a real marine he's gonna. How I felt and so again- I had kind of con to put in when I was going to do you talk to somebody. Culture monitor he's the guy. That gives you order. It isn't what's next in your career, this we're going to go for how long weave
to do this. It is helpful for whatever you can explain. Quantity is a guy gather, basically responsible for your career progression and gotta go back and forth. What do I do to stay until I get out and I cannot was struggling that decision and he's like look we're gonna The turkish after you ve got a lot of skill, get a lot of experience and I want you to use that and bring it back to the marine corps and go to a squadron and teaches guy so he gave me orders. Is yours going to be going to Japan, you're going to fly F, eighteen back to regular fleet squadron and then you'll go from there and I even I think able
The point I had orders given to me: would you like a squadron commander or now and again, like an operator's officer, remain its author rose to Junior out only been in a ten year eleven year, Marice on Canada was called, we call it. Department had Romany run of Nature Department, Squadron in operation or manage a kind of a two big ones and down I just a distant it's not what I wanted to do. I had like, I said some long term plan to do in other stuff. I was thinking laundromats going to get out and go do something else. If I called him on her, I said hey. I want to do a fact to her fact: afford our conjurors, like you, destroy describe alone on the pod gas and we Mozilla list on the internet there was caught. A heartfelt west was Miss Galva jobs. Nobody wanted and you called it was at first come first served econ volunteer for anything you automatically gonna get it and it was just a list of jobs. They couldn't like force on gas for whatever reason upon exploiting it all that well, but the bottom line is the hot bilbil it, as you call you it's yours for any reason,.
Am I came out. I see this hot feel to be afforded her control in Japan we're gonna go to Japan. We come across the bridge of ok overseas, what an amateur kid is already Whitney, isn't with Winnie so little bit, not supercool that, but we found it will go to. Japan will finally be you'll. Be fine, as a United Europe can be afforded controller in Japan. You're gonna go fly in one subdued, it's right there in black and white man. It's has hauteville honey guy, and he was like. Ok I'm in here we gave me these orders and I wanted I wanted. The fact is. I want to leave the marine corps. Having fulfilled all the parts about the marine and, in my mind it's funny cause. It's like we're it on that the real challenge of the thing I didn't really want to do, but I knew I should was getting out of the airplane and doing something really hard on the ground. Like my natural state in the Marine corps is in an airplane and for some with their miserable, and I want to do it for me. That was what road so to do, that was to be a forger. Control was and its
strangely here myself say it. I didn't want to go before your control, but I knew I needed to go. Do that there's no, I needed to leave the marine corps and say yeah. I did that too and it was just a matter I think, of fulfilment of kind of an exclamation. The career ladder. I was kind of fantasizing as I learn more about the marine corps. There is more to it than just been a pilot Gregg such one at that, So what's your mind where you think and for their controller in Japan met you're gonna go over there, you know. Have optimum range of God to the different training reduce costs and bombs or good you. You know: go home at night booth, your wife might have killed. I'm in Japan. Doesn't this nice little soil the long vacation Workin little bit time on the ground. I get to go to the field. I spend the night in the water smell night now add some like that. You now yeah, really cool, camping and pay for it, so yeah, that's what I was gonna go to Japan, there's a bunch of The court can be an open. Our actions will not may lead. Japan, Okinawa, create scuba, diving and its need, and I could bring my wife with me and be a lot of fun and you
I can train- I was gonna- teach guys how to use aeroplanes are drop bombs. I knew how to do that. I was wrong. There's gotta be a really cool thing. So I get these orders brigade, my wife and I here we're. We got there, campaigns. It's a little base up there in the middle, the island and I'm there probably do not try. There are weak and my boss, the brigade, Commanders like a year, we're gonna, send a brigade protein, which probably fifty guys I'm guessing I'm guessing at the numbers to camp camouflage, because that angle go just came back from seven months and in Iraq and they need to go right back and talked very quick chairman of the relevant of qualified guys. So I mean there are weak and I'm come home till Winnie, like hey, Here's the deal. They need guys again to learn to do this deployment. Iraq- and I want to be one of those guys, so we are there instead of a year? We are therefore maybe she's like is their snorkel.
Shove the years worth of Lebanon in Japan. In about six weeks and weeks, we d career with, A years worth of stuff about six weeks because we had to probably maybe early November, when We're gonna came down when we had to be end the counter year. So we shoved years worth of Lebanon in Japan. In about six weeks and weeks, we with Korea with Thailand did Mainland Tokyo. We did gutter, our continent. We did it all away December twenty, Second, whatever was you know, we flew home and I went straight to the lagoon from there to start training with second NGO, which was that the team that had just come back from Iraq after their segment deployment, arrive on a very quick time. They're probably form another transfigured. Just real quick formula on Orang look away, outweighs the angler go. The Anglican stands for air naval gunfire
liaison Company and really what it is. Is it's a group of it? It's a it's. A group of small teams for five hundred and nineteen called firepower, control teams and what those teams were all supposed to be able to do is control airplanes. Tell airplanes what to do their bombs. We can control artillery so had a fire or artillery ordnance, and even if we didn't do it there in Iraq, but we could use me gunfire so guns off ships. We were training all three of those skills sets an point of an angle go away like Iraq, is its. You had different unity, maybe unit army and its marine corps units and, as an angle, go you're liaison. So that's what the Ellen angle GO is. So I could I was trying to go to an army. You, and no army- does people made on notice all the services do the same job differently. So the army in the Marine Corps will get the same mission and have a totally different way of doing, because her doctrinaire training is different. Now it similar, but there's a bunch of pretty cool, differences in there and so what we are doing to do as they had all marine aeroplanes where we were in Iraq and all army land forces
and so the army does have any training how to use marine corps airplanes in quarters about air by turning to use army ground forces. So when those too people connectors there's a problem with how they can be. Getting what they want from each other insert angle: where the liaison between the army ground units, and in this case the marine corps error units, so my job was to control marine aeroplanes to support the army on the ground, and that was all over Iraq and with the anglican team, would take this whole group and break it into maybe twenty five Forman teams and when all of that country to go, do the same mission with the whole bunch of different units, so that was our mission as a forward air controller, and I was qualified as a four door control, because I'd flown airplanes drop bombs and combat understood eighteen, responsive support, Grau Maneuver and I went to school for their control or school. So let's go to Japan or be found or pretend to do that for a year, and then we end up in countless June training to or to Iraq and now to first time kind of doing, grant work right.
So last time I had held a rifle shot. A rifle and worn a pair of combat boots was the basic school So I had on here I was, I got my ear slotted TB. Us is a big day for me. I'd done six months of that I've had that check in the block. As from a pretty good about that, and I had never, I don't think I put on my came- my camouflage, uniform. I think I were a flight suit, honestly I think, every day for seven years, I could Pollack count on one hand or even longer than I was kind of wise, like apply count on one hand? The number of days that I didn't wear a flight. From the time that I selected to go to fight school to the time that I ended up an angle go days, I mean so. This was a foreign now I'd Ozma. I went to the basic rules all back there somewhere, but you know I think there is this. I mention this. I think to you. I think it
so this habit of self sabotage like why can't we, the Marine corps that data robbery in summer. Literally sabotage myself by volunteering for a job, and I don't know if I really want to do. But now I'm stuck doing it, so I'm going to have to do that. So I won't had to say I didn't do that so this kind of cycle of brake brow Mrs to my wife turned herself. I didn't really want to do, but knew that I should next thing. You know it all blew up on my face. Kazanovitch go to Japan that Japan's awesome, good sushi in and great experience there and it's gonna be awesome, and I won't be a fact, and I call for the rest of my life say all Roma as a fact- and I do know that and you know its January Campbell Woodyard for so making mistake I mean I I did that I volunteer, but I did not at the time when I was trading in my flying orders, for this fact orders I didn't expect to be in remedy, but as
I hope we need to send a predictable tune to couples unit propose guise, of course yet, where I'm going, I'm not going to not go. That's what I need to do when I go do that when I got to camp I have been the senior just my rank the singer afford. Control in the union. I was kind of mid level major. I come from top gonna. I share from talking about, and I was spirits guy the commanding officer, no joke! I can picture the day walk! one day and hands me a piece of paper and a skeleton six lines on a one for every team and on the sheet. Was all the locations of we're gonna go to he's like fill out. Rather, teams are going as we had a cover, these fifteen different locations. You know one or two teams per location and just The number of the team on there and get this back into a business projects, her a bigger and- again, my wife loves the story and I didn't tell her at the time, but my strand who I grew up with was in Romania the time he was in third battalion of Marine too we replaced when we got out there who did a turnover with,
and that's where the war was man I mean, and in late two thousand five and two thousand six the war was in Romani, and so I took the ten I wrote lightning six and so six one sixty six three we're all going romanian. I handed after ever thought about gave the ceo and so. If you going to go, do something you don't necessarily want to do, but going to go, do what you might as well. Do it and That's where the war was. I could have gone to a whole host of other places where there is not much going on it would have been relatively chill. I would have gotten a chicken. Bought for sure. I would have said here there and a no. No, on the guys are different places, just yours just more going on there. And if I was to go, then somebody else gonna go. Do we need new was tone you always up. He said hey it's on big dont know I e and I were tight and we talked is regulars. We could as much as we can sell you. Let me tell you, like ours, put put rounds shootin yesterday you said: will what were you shooting at his people?
I was just it was such a foreign thing to me, as a pilot certainly come from talk in this my best friend too, in our whole life. We both want it to be marine pilots and we we never when the same unit together, we just couldn't get a line It never occurred to me when we were kids driven of Albion, rink or far deposit the only time ever serve together, Wasn't remedy as border controllers, who was on the spot? Guess we'll get a good chuckle out of this, but so he was for the seven months prior? So I think this, don't you know, maybe June or July of that year, when I was getting ready to get orders. He was on his back to her and it was just a bedtime falcon thirty, seven new hope, B. Twenty nine you'll, be here real doing the deed man, I'm getting our big time and strong when there is a lot going on there and when You tell me the stories even some. Who had been a marine for that long, he's a Gower and a firefly it. Oh, my god shooting a rifle was a young man. I get what the people that are shooting at me. I just did it it's your disconnected and you have this. You dont have this.
What that means, and so even I was I was processing you saying and trying to understand, and then saying this is that's what I want to go, do and kind of volunteering to go. Do that I'll be out there still apart in retrospect, the did didn't really quite fully grasp what that men. I dont know how anybody in the first appointed took place like remedy in that unites dabbled in aviation you're like you set him up in Sky Island is relatively safe and I'm sure even the first upon you did there's just there is an element of just not being able to fully understand it at that they become clear to me until right, we're getting ready to leave from body and the new units coming in, and I was explaining what to get into that's when it really hit me- and I we're myself a year earlier MIKE on that. Do that really doesn't know what the hell's about to happen to him and what about to go on, but it was like a said man. I don't even want to make it sound like that big a deal, but I volunteer for five to her. They need a gas
I want you to go to Iraq. That's were Ramada over. The fight was my best runaways air, I'm gonna reminder, and I was about it. It was just that's what I thought I should do so. I want to relaunch, and now you lead, Marines do yeah, and yes, so I explained just a minute ago about those things. It may be successful and things it that lead to failure are identical. They are the exact same things in an air point of the same on the ground, but the environment is different. It different there's no way around it, and I also would say to that and for good reason. I think the ground rain scene? I worked a lot impotent. Artillery most of anger was made up of artillery in some infantry, not any obstacles. Positive controllers, There is a decent bit scepticism. Pilots come in to lead these. These and an end. I think for good reason. You know, because a lot of these guys when I talk about combat experience, thereunder third for there
when the derogatory man you're come in. Yet there are there, they ve already done you weren't you, top gun pattern years younger than your kemys. Well, what's worse, is that where my top gun patch I'm where my kemys and there are like, wash those cameras and light? As a matter of fact, I had their fresh, brand new, and there were their came from. They did the March of Baghdad. They went on for four months, Second, Rebecca Rowena did all of two guys it did Felicia they're back and there on the third appointment in three years and their legitimate appointments and your Dave, Bert Mister Tom shows opposite hours. This brigade, platoon where's my salt team. You know- and I think that scepticism of for good reason is who is this guy and that's a real two thousand? A real leadership challenge for me is to apply those things that I knew or that were effective, but an environment of totally out of my comfort zone, man, I'm totally out of a compromise
and I had to apply a skill set of things that I just haven't. I haven't charter rifle since ninety ninety four, I got to the basic school in October. Ninety four, the first thing to do is go to the rifle range does allow Someone who is a trigger a rifle was October of nineteen. Ninety four and here it is. Is your job I two thousand six prep and go to remedy, and I got a site in my em for so they should be skeptical little bit and it was a challenge for me, a real leadership challenge of to be successful in a place it I'm not comparable to be honest with you he told me I'm going to lead a squad. Combat I'd feel pretty comfortable doing that it would be a challenge it behind, but I wouldn't feel like I know about this, I would be all over I don't mean to say easy, but right in my wheelhouse, not not true for that. So I worked hard to try to be successful on that, and you know you got to get your Marines to buy off on your your pro
You know better because you to go downtown with those guys that you know, and every relationship with those guys was different. As you know, when you got to build those relationships and demonstrate that you know this is going to work and then you just talk a little bit about people feel about what do you Bruce always doing over remedy in get to how we interactive, but overall, oh you guys doing when you first got there, you just carnage, bumped into it. We have feed as they say we dead man, so I get there. I've got a salt team that stands for some sporting arms liaison team. Really what it meant was three of those little four man teams group together in one thirteen man team cuz, we had an additional corpsman world medic with US So I had three those teams out response before I kind of knew what I expected was going to happen. I got there that I would be in which called the talk, the Tattoo cooperation centre, which
I kind of run things from the desk and sperm out my teams and units to support the guy that needed our help. These army units are going to go, do missions; they needed someone to help them control their. I had those things I would give them those teams. Well, it took basically no time to get together realise that the demand signal for our support was than we could have ever responded to. They needed twenty of our teams, not three and so that idea that I would call a b c, o c Gaia, talk. Guy was over in the first day because, as I get there, we're gonna turn over the other angle, getting ready to leave his producing with all the people all the been working with, and it's like fifteen different teams that you know. They're, not running operations like three battalions, its Forty squads? You know these guys, you're gonna, twelve thirty maintained, and they all need you so and theirs
operations have been too so areas is five thousand six hundred behind the one one, a dear you shut up in his duty to eighty six thousand people or whatever and theirs, operations going on all over remedy. Every single might just people patrol is people getting in firefights every single nightmares, constant gunfire Enzo there's no way with three teams are gonna cover all out. You can't do it it s. That was sort of the immediate awareness for me is not only was I not gonna be able to. Support everything I know how to prioritize Intel. Folks, hey. We can do this and not that you like he'll, be here or there and so very quickly was a matter of how am I going to break down my team and support these guys? I do haven't advantage that I was as innovative pilot that was the primary aircraft. Eighteens inherited the primary aircraft. That was doing the support and I knew those aeroplanes really well, and I
was able to very quickly when I saw what the army hey we're doing this patrol today and we're gonna take our home these from the camp Romani to go to this location, and it would be really difficult. Just to get there just navigating nine, your home, these on the night vision, goggles and the roads can be confusing you know what I like down there and some days are operating in downtown remedy in its straight up, urban that, like just buildings and five miles away. You can be in place. We call it my Charlie one that. It looks like Vietnam, I mean it's, it's the contrast. For being so close together was so incredible how different those places weren't. So every environment was different, whose able understand how what aeroplanes can do well and not well knows environments, and so they asked for supper am I a. I can't really do that But why can do as this? And maybe to be more helpful to you, and I could very quickly build a relationship with the army, which is really who you needed to be the best support for them, means they're gonna get on board, we're good. We had a relationship I was worried about, my Marines and us building our team
when I was worried about- was us as a team being effective for the votes we are supporting and showing that we could do good work for those guys and we took a very different ouch. I merely broker team into three separate team. Six, one sixty six three actually sent the six three team, a guy named Alan to another base, a blue diamond. Remember. That means right across the river, because there was a company base out a blue diamond that we're doing operations into and they never had any. The anglican support, so a duty, They literally moved there and liberal. Those guys and then my other team, six one of six to Adam, and I just we took a whiteboard and all the requests for support. We just started plug your names in, and so he was just. I had five guys you for he had his own home, the on the we had all the weapons, all the radios and just started. It is go, do operations you too. I would do everything for little vehicle patrol vehicle patrol just they're a present a present patrol there, too humble drive around the city, we'll just jump on that in spring, a third truck which was a ton afar parent awareness
sometimes we're just doing for patrols, and we would ask walk round and do move into contact, reboot room clearing stuff like that Jack o man, I found myself way way out of my comfort zone very early. I think my second mission there was a red where I was ended up. Like clearing a room, has in a stack of deeds: Quitter no room well I was trying to talk airplanes overhead of work and it was just a basically a manpower shortish like eat, yeah yeah we're getting a good. During these two guys go through the room in Russia that you know in our senior Madrid majors are also is the kind of one of the senior guys, but I wasn't in charge of this be working for a first lieutenant which was perfectly financing protein. He was doing this mission. He knew what he was doing. I was their support. Bessie. I could that image of, like yachts, can upload roof and it'll will be awesome. You need me to blow up, Negative, I mean it was hey, get in line
and insert get out. I think that I remember that second mission, or with the teacher waiting in the lieutenant, was, I think he was I got. I think you work at home, no, just because National Guard Julia National Guardian these days were also has been there for Polly, ten or eleven much better am, I got there may even longer they ve been there almost a year harden deeds that head lost a lot of guys and sacrifice a tone, but I was learning everything I could from them because they were veterans and I was brand new. I was supposed to bring this great kip. But the reality was ouses soaking up from them as much as I could, and I'm I'm colonel room with this guy so the phrase. What am I doing here went through my head. I want While I was there and it was just cannot, remedy was a type of wasted. The deal was as when you got there, it was just a bullet train and in you, just jumped on the train or E. Had you weren't, you couldn't slow things down, usefully, could act as other guys hey. Can we carried out a bachelor, but we need to get up to speed there.
Just doing their thing and if you're going to be anything other than a hindrance, you need to get on board immediately, and so that's what we did as best. We could- and I have a lot to thank for this guy's a two acres, no matter how hard we tried this first couple times, we were just get two speed were or not bringing our again. Yet we were trying to figure out what's going on around us, and there is no doubt that without those guys, their leadership, or willingness to gonna bring us on board and get us up to speed that pleaded big part. We speak quickly, but they won Joe in our struggle the elders like we're talking about with flying in Jujitsu, fighting everything else. You show up there and things You're, not slow down a third. There go in five times faster, and you just see- and you know you're gettin told the clear room, that's the only thing in the world you can see is now this room and you're not aware of all the other stuff. That's going on in a definite take some opts to get your get. Your son
is about you what Avenant, yeah and the ops were. There were so many different kinds of operations, like I said you need go from doing just a three humvee this patrol and downtown remedy is not good. It's not it's. Just we're just waiting for something to go wrong. You know whether its skin lit up beyond firefight army he's get shot. I literally just driving around waiting for somebody to do something to you, this present patrols and then you go right, That, too, you get him elegance that somebody needed a grab was in nor how somewhere in a totally different environment- and you be off doing arrayed, we help Stanhope the cure up. You talked about the past. The quicker in force. We, you literally dissuaded right out the gate of the main base for somebody to call for help something has gone wrong. It's here come help us, and so we just started doing all these missions, and I I just was on board at all, and they very they are very different from day to day. Are you got I'll fire to be legitimate,
We, we between me, I did a lot and my teams weed controlled the release of every single piece of work. In the Marine Corps, Imagery Marine corps inventory. So every piece of ordnance. That, though- the airport, the haunted scenarios dropped and everything. Accusing the covers and artillery on artillery as well that in future between out there that we did controls from Anglican. I did myself so you know that store in what hit TB us there's an old saying in the marine corps we all subscribe to ever Marines riflemen and we're talkin a shudder. Could not be further from the truth because the last thing you are talking as the training, all your top gun scheme, later on a Saturday afternoon is a riflemen. But I will say this for the Marine Courtyard by us: a moral problem or dude. It's all in there
oh she s TB, us all! That exposure all that doctrine, everything you learn its there now took a wild, dig down and find it and those same thing that when I went to ocs- and I was the skinniest guy there and I was going to couldn't get through them like wait, a second bigger tougher, producer. Doing this doing this, and I am it's all in there, and so I just had a figure out a tap that stuff again and bring it back up and just go do it. So great decision, pyramidal body can after it, and then you get showed up there, one story. You told me that you're Contra fire up an empty one and it was your body yet yeah. We're doing we're doing was called movement to contact. My fate mission as a pilot, nothing better than movement to contact and Conduct mission. Is you little? You drive you home. These take all your your folks out, and you set up a staging around the north side of this. This big areas kind of wooded dirt had like little ravines
trees and stuff like that, and we would just we would walk up a troll and you have one thousand and fifteen to go from north to South and the mission- was got moving to contact. You walked until you got in contact which, when you got into a firefight- and I remember not same day, but my first day going, go unethical, Bravo Company to do it. I could be wrong, but I'm pressure wasn't. I met the Potomac a matter for the first time, and I kind of got out of my humvee. I walk up and I'm looking for the pink. My time there was a supporting. I said, I'm helpful guy cuz I bring airplane. This can be good for them and he walks up and he's got a shotgun hanging on his desk, and you know I was a brand new guy, but I knows I'm like hey hey: what's with a shotgun Iver Rivalries, rifle use, hey devalued! I find that this is the best weapon for type of missions, and it turns out he actually was right on that patrol. Like what am I doing here, man, you know, I'm gonna get you a forbidden together shot gun. So, I knew that I wasn't. There is a lot in store for that and
what do these patrols these? These movements, cod x and you end up in a building in my job. As a fact was he got in the building get up on. The roof right away and I would do over watch in a similar different. There asked I'd airplanes- I had radios seal to do a lot all the time it's just a matter of cover moves are given the roof and a heinous. What I see this worthy airplanes Ok, you guys jumped to the next building. Sometimes an building building be twenty yards away, sometimes be two hundred yards away. So you were, you would just do these bounding movements building to building and then, when they get get an ex building. My other guy would be up in the roof. Is that you're going we run down and go to the next building? and so we get into this building and as soon as I get up on top of the roof of the building, so he can pictured half of us from the roof of the building. Half of the other guys we're trying to move to the other buildings so they're out in the open and from that other building, as I get up on the roof, I look up in the first happens is like three are pages,
the building that I'm indirectly underneath me private. I miss our team by like fifteen feet below us, so above their heads and below us. As the first thing that happens, They still, they tell you these stories, as at one day, you're gonna be in a position. In between on what kind of a dirt road behind some trees where this fire came from. Aeroplanes. Overhead is too. If eighteen, these, I remember it from a unease, Coast Squadron and TB ass, they you ever Marines riflemen days till they tell you these stories that one day you're gonna be in a position where you gonna be in a fire fight and there's gonna be airplane overhead. It's gonna be a buddy years from TB. Ass can be old, buddy and you gonna be like hey Jacko, its Dave help Out and Dave's gonna ruin his white horse, incommodious hornet in plastic, things out at an end here in plenary, but he's gonna. Thank you one day right on, What is that on the ground and the Guy Fund
Your point was one of my closest friends again in blue freedom was also of the squadron I just left and no joke MIKE. They want it. Werner trips contacting or taken fire from wherever and on the radio. He says he ship, it's blue what he knew her and it's a rabbi tv. I promise I was supposed to be in an airplane, what had happened, and I'm, like I said I said south to north callings level and in in that's what happened, yet for passes from his efforts teams did these draping runs on this car and I remember look into the army guys with his first lieutenant and I looked at him- go you'd, we're gonna be fine super cool. I very chill hey this happened. I see. What's going on this horrid her head out. Her head saw everything. What do you need need this, wherein and next hollows wings level Hager cleared out and Other harem arms in our Thomas urges one of those stories wear them, marine corps for whatever,
insane reason will take every ten thousand train millions of dollars and ten years of of training, of not stick em on the ground and its that exact reason that that exact event was. I could bring an asset that the army would never have in environment They would never be able to use and through two buddies. Just talking pointing was to each other on the radio make it happen in like that and am. I was supposed to be an airplane job. That's how are we supposed to work it out, but on that particular day, neither the rosy reverse buddy was. It was an awesome we a combination, lively like that, the Marine corps the logic that thing they breed in us. It's a real thing, and it was precisely because you see that carbon in the ground, And then, eventually, we a month or so goes by and we show up and whose first brew who'd. You me first wife, yep life was first guy that I met.
Actually live in Tony Russia together So we have seen you guys united. You we had. And over and we're just gonna getting up to speed, we possibly there may be a month or so before you guys had so in a quick learning curve, we're just gonna getting comfortable with what's going on. We also there's new brigade platoon, come at an sorry anew, former division come in and we know that that year there were there. The teach weight that brigade Comedy misleadingly new new brigade cannot team is common in and we were actually in just a relatively short time, we're kind of the continuity costs all legal gaps are leaving. We had, we had the overlap, so we had a kind of a problem. Well what the new battalion and the new pedantic manner his retired. Now awesome dude from one three seven arm again him tabasco. Just just an attitude ass if he were had been there as part of its turnover had come at a couple months. Prior, maybe a month and saw us. We had my favorite thing about. Tabasco is
said awesome guy. We we were getting ready to do operation with them, because the first and repression, south central romanian and we were in his briefing and he's quoting pat but he's quoting patent. The movie you're gonna get her yes, yes, thank you. Thank you for being here this day there he was awesome. He had seen me it just so happens when he was doing his initial turnover before the, but the battalion came out. I had done I controlled a release, controlled hellfire. And blew up a car and he got to see it and it was kind of cool thing as he comes. I heard you these guys, I'm in the middle of donor. A real control happened in this. You see that day blob cards on video get this big tv screen to show the whole thing. This car detonated, some cool pictures, everything and he he comes over me after we're done, I'm kind of sitting there and he's a lieutenant colonel in the major Lazer can you do that when we get home? I absolutely man his like we're gonna get along great
That was my initially inner interact with him, so it was awesome as we knew when they are coming back. We had already just u virtue that experience built in pretty good inroads them and we're gonna do some good work, he was also the type a guy. What there's a whole brigade combat team came in ass, five thousand guys, but his battalion that group of several hundred was really the core group at. I initially did most of my work with and his approach was, if you can help us here on it. There are the same exact attitude he had with us yet for sure for all the enabler, so they are called the bandits and added bandit PEN, Canada, scorn Crossbones kind of thing. You are, if you you're a I the band treasure just totally on the team any treated this like his own guys, and that was awesome, and so all the enables we had military we're working dogs, we had explosive ordinance disposal, we had Anko folks, we have the seals in always different groups from different places that none of them were assigned to him. But his approach was, if you can help my soldiers out, you're you're, a band you're on the team and
who is right on. Let's do this cassettes. We need to work with them anyway. Muzzle make the best of it. We started to do a couple emissions and every one of those missions. Was your teams and my teams, and I would say, point four week, or so I guess unlimited dates, but relatively Quicken. The first couple of Miss since we are doing the similar things, we're bringing support in over watch and help in these gadget, which is the exact same thing. You guys we're doing your joy different ways by autumn. We were supporting these guys, I'm in my a little building there and then one day, whatever just sit around prepping for something and in walks leaf and Tony In short, they drove from your base, which cannot be all but of a hologram round her job and Ngos, hey man. Blood work in the morning, then we find a way that we can work together to come these missions and we got this big mission coming up. You want to come down and and brief with us, but yeah absolutely love to go brief with the seals going to be awesome
I wish to speak because cool one time thing I could see us seals do business. And that was it that was his introduction had leaf and tony I'll be really candid I'd like to think out. I've done that. I doubt I would have gone to charge based and knocked on your door and said a wave Jokela. Do some work together made that initial contacts in him and Tony were definitely equal opportunity. Employers document we same thing is, you know, colonel tabasco. If we thought someone could do something, help us out or we good complement each other in any way men. We were knocking on doors to try and make that happen for sure yeah and that was his approach, I didn't I'd, never done any work on the ground I didn't know much about the seals. I'll be very blunt. I had my own opinion I assume you guys would be like and whose Polly something out of the movies expected like long beer, and do just run around, do their own thing and so I was actually little surprise that that later came an asteroid and work with us, and so I went to that first night mission. That first brief I dont want to say I was
if the goal- but I was certainly interested in what because my view, was that you guys going to go. Do your own thing and my guys, or can I just either not be able to keep up, not know what you're doing and fit in very well and be able to help out in just gotta put ourselves at risk and look I'll I'll say. This very bluntly, I have a very high bar when you leave talk on a what to expect from a mission brief and mission execution Emission Debrief cost that were all about, and I was pretty sure that there is no chance that you're gonna do anything anywhere near that and I was shocked and kind of overwhelming, how professional your organize your team was, and that was the bigger. Thing for me, was one of these guys gonna, be like I just sort of pictured a kind of a pickup game it was is, kills him bad guys come on back and high five. Each other and duty was one of the most professional org
the mission briefs I Torreon, or so what your plan was a new exactly rising to fit in. We went and did it and then it s debriefed after we came back after this he was a relative unavowed. Nothing really happened that night. In terms of in the grand scheme of things we saw. We were there and then you debriefed you guys came an EU mission, debriefed user, they're kind of cleaner weapons in time going through and analyzing what happened, and That was a man who was totally on board. I was I was I was sold at that we could work together. I pretty effectively and I was gonna beginning it sort of started out of the blue, and you guys came out ass to do some good working and we did give it a lot of work. You ve been a lot of work with us we started to think does because for us from our affected in any way that you know, there's one junior officer out there, who is now probably a lieutenant commander, or maybe even a commander at this point at that time. You he was on his first deployment and he was a J tat. What we call in this we'll teams are air. Controls are called a J tack and-
here. He is in some of those missions, instead of being a seal he's being J tack so he's one of those guys it look over you guys in said, hey, wait! A second key, take this radio for me and do that thing. So I can go. Do my frogman stuff over here and that at an plus again to be blunt, you got to do it a lot better than we could period. You know we are. You were an F eighteen pilot for crying out loud and we New Guy Junior officer on the radio tyrannical fire. You geysers eminently better qualified to do it, and so yeah. We looked at it as if ok, we deck gives us one more shooter and it gives us a whole new level of expertise. Now, of course, there's J tax, monsieur themes that day our law more experience and there awesome and of course, but in our group, to bring you as was just a huge level up for us to get a lot better and give us more people to maneuver as seals on IRAN over watches or whatever, so it turned out to be a real good little
little relationship go. There was a class win win and when I went to seal says hey, would you can the air, so I can go shoe people you know, and that means I know I don't have to clear that room and being a position. I might have to do something like that, I'm all over it and I know he would talk about and we had he and I had a great wish. If someone I really love working with two want to go, be a frogman like you said, wanna go controller airplane and we found a way to make that stuff work. Now it was. It was a big deal for me, though man two to four might for me and my guys to work with you guys, because you ve said this in the past, and I know I know how organizations can we're not Nessler parochial, that we dont trust other people, but we get really comfortable how we do business and just bring in another group of dudes. I think this also speaks volumes to do that can always guys you're gonna. Just you the major those guys can keep up. You know in
everybody knows that you guys hitman and to keep up you got. You got to keep up your not to carry your own weight and you can have to make it happen to you have to provide something cuz, the minute you become a drain on the on the team. You know you're going to get cut loose and we we couldn't afford be a drain on you and we can afford to have other people be a drain on us. I think there is a lot of color at the beginning of There is a lot of reasons why it wouldn't work. There is a whole bunch of reasons why it wouldn't have worked and the only reason did work, as everyone has committed to build in relation to support the battalion. That was it we all have the same end say mine. It wasn't about what can the seals due to be seals and be great out? What can we do to support those guys? The whole thing I was opened up with that sort of where they came from just this attitude that everybody there was on the same team straight up on the same team incident.
I turn in a big missions of big missions portion into remedy putting in combat outposts do no night after night day after day doing those those big operations and that relationship just got just got stronger, strong You know late leaf, obviously with you in and just Turned into some really not just not just cool but man effect, yeah, effective. It was a mean in that deployment. I've I kept a long journey like I took a lot and notes on my experience there and I've gone back and we read of a few times somewhat recently. Throughout the whole thing. One of the common themes is how The life- and I did this today- are to eat. We did self with you all the time kind of became in that middle that come June July August.
That is all we are really doing, because we were so busy and there. The big up was taken off and we are starting to get into downtown. Put in place would never been always clearings almost up and so the need for us to support the arming the need for you to support the army. Again, we could have had ten times many folks in with my so could have done more work, everything that journalists just about what we're doing together. I think at the time I just kind of lost track of EC as it will just everyday get up and go do something coming. There's no doubt days or is hardly ever any time. We won't do anything. It was almost always with you guys, is a huge highlight for me too, too, to be with. A group of guys that were so on board with just making things happen, You guys had an incredible knack of This is in the way this process keeps it. Yet we have sorted out. Hey, I need to get our points. What he had to do this and this yet none at all we get we get sorted out. So
You guys had had kind of the market on. What do you need will make will get? It will make it happen, and for me to be able to get that assets or to deliver that I could in a you did where to get it, but I can control the hell out of it right on man. And have you any the worked explain why I need this. Could you guys did all that work and you had a valid reason for it? They will laugh at me. If I said I want an ac one hundred and thirty gunship like who are you, I'm dead broke man like negative Laughing Jack jogger needed. They see whether you gunship not every time. An odyssey is a thin ass it, but nothing should above her head and then you get the guy we're talking as if you wanna control is. Might yes, I do. I want to control the saying so there's a lot of you, benefit there, and I think we also proved is, I think, for the battalion brigade. They figured out that we were really helpful in helping those guys accomplish what they wanted to accomplish in. That was just a not put in very good words to arrange it is up to rule rewarding, and it was a highlighted that deployment, as are we worked together through, I guess, there's a whole wanderlust reasons why we should have everydayness a bunch. You didn't work from
I do not write you, your guy, there's a whole bunch institutional roadblocks that we can just interim corner general thing and United ever met and that wouldn't really been all that uncommon. You'd has been ops normal. You work out. A lot of awesome highlights, while not deportment, and obviously some of the worst days of our lives are over their June twentieth. Talking about that. Yeah man so we're going to talk about this, so we had been there quite a bit. I remember a kind of a shock when it first got there talking to two hundred and twenty eight first day, I'm there I go to help a company that got a memorial outside of their compound of all the soldiers have been killed. I can picture this is kind of like a names are on a little.
Instead of a tall, we'll pyramid, looking thing with the names on there and you see it, you understand it, hey people have died here, you get it. It's not hard to. Understand those things that happen, but there's a level of disconnect when you first gathering our people are dying, but you know you haven't seen and then. You're very quick, I think by my second mission out. There was a kind of a cure, a former, a vehicle ideas, obeys Glinda and a surgeon with bunch bombs in his vehicles, gotten between American Compliment poem self up. So I see my first dead body in icy onus will combat people dying here. It was an enemy, wasn't the same and then. You know, March April may we started taking, I mean that started. We continue to take casualties and I'm trying to go to memorials and we're starting to see eyes that we knew and worked with and we're friends with in built relationship within their there they're getting killed or really really,
and those memorial started to become every couple of days were going to a memorial and sort of ways on you. I thought about this a lot and how it affected me as a pilot Beata, my comfort zone in this environment and in what that was like, but without trying to diminish any of that loss. There's a there's a disconnect when it's not your person, I your guy. And on June twenty so Chris Lee, and it was my radio operator we're in a building that we had been in when we back up. I was not there. I had left that building that morning gone back to this Yossi Adams Team, with Chris it replaced us we're base, could go back and forth operations in this. This combat outpost. Us. It gave us a really good. You of the north part of the city, and we had to be there basically, twenty four, seven and and Chris and an item steam, gone back out there, and there are supposed to go from like twelve too, for something like that. I what it was we gave me a six hours
after something and then we're gonna to figure out. If we reply is her sorrow? We had a sort of set we're gonna come back, and I got a call on the radio from the battalion saying hey. Can you extend your anglican team out here for four hours? You're gonna go. Do another movement to do some clear. We get Russia that hey Adam. Can I stay out for a cup another couple hours you know, supported to chair would not stand not seeing her ass, no problem and in during that time it was not uncommon to take fire and from that in that Opie P, and there were some sniper fire and the first shot. There was a younger, Marina Lance Corporal who is up there and Chris ran up from the other side and cannot put put him down. He has hey ones, could not take cover, go
go over the other side of the building and Chris got up to start it. He was a reuse. Do his observation to try to figure out. What's going on and increase was shot by sniper. And I get a call can a very very closely if that from Adam yeah, I'm kind of men in the radio's Alla time anyway, even her home base their like work Read it right there, so I was not there. I was just on the radio said: Hey Corporal Announcement hit or on the way back- and I was about it. I don't have any real good sense of any games going on. And I will panic sets in like okay, and I don't want to press for too much information. I get a call from alpha company who would food man all the observation post between where he was and where we were, that they were clearing, make sure the roads were clear. They use in their tanks in a Bradley, so they could pick him up and bring it
shock. I was a pretty busy dangerous road use. How to look out for ideas and stuff like that, and so everybody's colonel picking up the pace to clear out that road he's come back and I get a call hey he's Bree, then we're heading straight to truly men, and am I right? Ok with kind I had this sense of this is gonna, be ok, Charlie MAD is this medical facility on the care that we are stationed at their literally a hundred yards from where I slept, and I just ran down to Jarley men to meet the humbly. I was there when I am sorry was an obvious bradley. Rather, fighting vehicle broadly pulls up myself and my my corpsman doc. Are there the the? The broadly has a door on the back of the battle that come down like a ramp and the ramp comes down he's on a stretch,
goes up to get the front piece of the stretcher, I'm at the bottom, and he comes down carrying a stretcher and Chris is laying on the stretcher, and I hope he went right by me. I look at him. I knew immediately that he was gone. I mean it was gone. It see. The entrance into the whole thing was all kind of their aid. Stabilizing ain't done their best tat kind of managed what? But there was no question that the outcome is already played itself out and Chris was gone. They take a man to the medical facility which I had been in and you ve been in a dozen times for a whole host of different reasons, but it always been somebody else I mean I may have known that person and been close that person, but it was always somebody else and Doc goes in with him his care, the stretcher. He comes out and probably jocose point ten seconds and he just comes out with had shaken, and I knew I wasn't holding my breath for hope.
I knew, but he caught a came out and end. Just sort of I guess confirmed that the word I'm looking for just sort of made it official that that Chris had been killed and down. It sort of initiated just a very strange discovery, sequence of events or I I knew Adam and there s a team are trying to get back and they are going to have a slower rode back as they're not gonna get the support. Just gonna take a little more time. Gotta get their gear and all the things go on with a Christmas, got loading Albion and raise him back. I'm in Bradley. There can alone up hum these illnesses. Can it takes time- and I know it- I need to get back to the vehicle we park or trucks, and I wanna meet them there and I walked back like us. It is maybe a hundred yards from my huge to two Charlie. Madam. I gave a halfway there and had this thought that.
That I may be didn't confirm that Chris was killed, and so I she walked all the way back to go, find there's a singer medical officer. We called on the small, really awesome guy that dealt with all the the casualties there, who I knew, because I done control I'd controlled Helicopter Kazakhstan wounded folks, I've been there a lot, we did we get blood. I mean we're in that facility all the time, and I I don't know why I needed to do it, but I was I am I just I had a talking with. Eight is its core boy on his dizzy. Is he killed his idea? I'm sorry man, you know it was kind of an odd conversation. I could tell the. Why he was looking at the boy asked me. This question like adjust was one of those things that I was in sort of. I think it is a state of disbelief that, as I walked back and we can deliver the news I sort of Thomas S like I can't tell them in case one of em
cuz, because I never really went through that song. I saw doc I, but there are no words were exchanged. I had this very odd, like walking back and forth a couple of times, sorting out and then you know my job was next thing. I d do that Adam. I watched the trucks, pull up, they all get out your four guys and everybody else had heard. You know all the angle go teams that were there. We shared a facility with your d in working days. Everybody in a word. It wouldn't was passing something to happen, and I a core points Cuervo. Instead, you know it would do something called a thing is called a hero flight here, if I can be like sixteen hundred, I got for me in like ten minutes they the process of them, bringing the casualty that casualty not surviving and then moving. They had that thing wired and I seen it down a bunch of times, but it just
It was Chris, it was. My guy was a guy that I just knew differently than everybody else. I just saw him differently when we entered our trucks. He was the back left and I was the front right. Our trucks are always parked back into their spots, so they're always side by side. For the back left of his truck entered or and the right front of my truck door, we always had a fight space reach. Chris is a standard perfect marine like he could be ninety percent way through. If you saw me walking up to get out of way close the door. Let me in on my come on dude I just marinas? I walked past that kid. We are even really talk in him a thousand times just every single day, a couple times a day. It. It D mystifies, as as our marine. You just leave a slightly bit for me. I shouldn't say you how it felt for me, as I do
Felt with all that was going on in all the destruction and the death in the violence and all the things that I sort of become accustomed to appoint, there's just an aspect of it. This is a tiny bit insulated in your life to a really small degree, but it's enough just keep you sort of preserved and, When Chris was killed, it just sort of expose that it broke down for my last little boundary of I'm okay here cuz. I can do this because I'm going to get through this, I'm going to go home and everything's going to be okay and that are
a lot that hurt in ways that I did not understand how it was gonna hurt. I just didn't. I just didn't know what I was gonna be like and that the always next steps in you. I know you know this because you you saw it he's on a helicopter, he's gone flying away and that forty six in what feels like about a minute, it's ours and our even rehearse them. Movement under that- to carry him on that, but you go from crisis, hit, he's on his way into watching the helicopter fly when it feels like it takes about along and then you're just want to. Let me walk back. You literally walked away from the medical facility with a helicopter just takes off and you walk back a hundred yards and you just go back to your room. Only Christy DAWN And it's like an old deployment, the hunt reason what the bright orders is like. I had to start the deployment again because
all the things that I was dealing with. In all things I was managing and leading is as its leader would now. What we want to say was my job. It always a sort of change in terms of what I thought really will the guys that I was working with everything was different now because he was their brother. That was gone, not somebody else and it just sort of change the calculus and it really redefine dress that deployment and I'll be really really blunt. It was hard for me to not fold, and there is a lot of instinct of like. I do not want to do this anymore. I do not want to be. This is more than I had bargain,
for this. We can laugh about volunteering in Vienna, Marie you know it was a little more than a bargain for for and look man, we had done some crazy stuff at that point. I'd seen some bad things happen was a participant about things and I was okay. I was doing ok. I was gonna, be ok with that and this one just sort of I just it's a struggled with it a little bit so. It was a tough time. There are obviously you know. Four for us. It was you know what a month and a half later on August. Second, when when markets are killed- and you know, I think that's one of the things that debt- we felt that little bit of insulation that you're talking about, we felt it we felt I was out to actually more insulated
because you know my guys we're out there taking massive risks getting in crazy gunfights getting, after it to a degree that no one had ever thought they would and we were doing all right. We had a couple ask wounded here and there, but they were ok and an odyssey that guy's get wounded. You know if it's not every state mood, I'm it had. You don't want. Guy's got wounded early on and eat. He almost lost his leg, but guess what he didn't and that that make us feel more vulnerable, my mind. It made us feel stronger and, like hey, we like a wounded, but what we're gonna be good and so yeah would mark our killed and especially mark. Who was you know such a gregarious in such guys, so full of life they use think it can be killed. You don't think I can be killed and
same thing, you know that insulation was just completely shattered and I think what is also it was. It was recognisable. It was recognisable to me was that. Other people outside of dashing boozer. They thought the same thing. They thought A the seals are here: they're gonna, they're, they're gonna, be there push through this they're gonna they're gonna win and guard nothing's going to happen to them and we saw it. You know at the memorial service you could see it in guys faces that they were. They were also, insulation about us, was, was kind.
Shouter tuna, and then it turns into damn if the seals can get killed. What, where am I am? I think I was another thing that really you know what I was nothing that really dismayed market and killed such a such an impact. All of us there do. There is no doubt that what you just said is exactly how it plain out. You were the first gotta talk to me when, when Christmas helicopter flies awaits its little dust, in that year, the helicopters loud and kicked up does there in it. It was dark. It was night time- and you came up to me and I remember the exact words, but we were just her walking back and you said and like we're. Gonna get after this guy's and we're gonna go find the Cyprus issue something to those words, and it was basically like when it take care of this, and I remember, feeling really comforted by that like Yemen, yeah go! Do that that's awesome and feeling good about that
we weren't helpless and we're going to suck it up and deal with it. Just this terrible loss that were waiting to get something from this. We're gonna go, find some guys and go get after it. Where did he go? Coolies? Yes, you can you guy and you guys we're gonna. You guys want to make that happen, and I remember feeling I remember how that felt and work June. Twentieth August second, does like everything else was a poor man. It was like there was like than it might as well. The next day, because things to happen so Fast there and I was you know I wasn't on the patrol on this on August second, but on the radio, gotta run in the air. I was doing all the same software was did that you know when I was back in this. You see with you working that mission, all that stuff that happened and before you know it were watching the helicopter fly away. You know or he's got you know and you in your seeing the the the aftermath of that and I actually went back last night telecom. I draw entry for that day because
I'm not running down Charlie met again, cassettes were everybody came in and I remember seeing leaf there in a life was a guy. I worked with a ton and there he has got a wound. I'm lookin at em over Saint Aubert, right shoulder the kind of short author there there There attending delay, who was life, was a you're than life. You forget, like me, who always a further limit I'd without my doing her man with whom, you're the seals. This hasn't seen. These guys are just there just lock than life and see the exposure of of that it is. Me, and I knew I had a feeling of holy cow if this can happen of these guys you can have an any of us and it's not a good feeling and when you saw the guys from the team heard it was just. It was just that we was scrambling and it was that sense of- and I want to make a sally that wasn't a penalties panicking a freak out. It was not like that, but it was just a tiny bit chaotic mixed
a small degree but enough when you are so used to just being completely not like that that feeling Why, like one Chris loss, was what I felt was like? Oh man, I'm willing to join in this. I am in control all that stuff. It I've told myself all that comfort and confidence and we're getting better and to be more effective. Do more good work until the thing is over? It was like no negative back in you like it happened today and then it in between Chris and mark the army suffered a hot bless we're gonna memorials like every couple of days? People are getting killed all the time at every those eroded that that coffin a little bit and what happened to the in life. It was hard to see that.
And that was the feeling that I have cited yeah- maybe I'm just lucky you know maybe out, and maybe this whole thing is just luck now. Look we we regrouped, I mean who June twenty was a bad day. You know we did all the things you do them or we paid or are we ordered him the right way? U S! Canna. We did at the right way and we acknowledged caress, but if you I think we can remedy. In the middle of June man there was no taken a knee. There was no like, let's whole offer, second catch, her breath the bullet chain, which is running, Arafat, you're, just gonna get, was actually going to get a ton worse. You remember, July and August we're just they are insane they are insane. So we we lost Chris really at the big ramp opera you know. We done a big movement in earlier in June and we are really started lay into the city, but the real. You know the crazy,
J block. You know that kind of stuff. That's offers all out in front of us so, for me, was in our entire career than a whole bunch a really great offer. My career, nothing has even think is even anymore. Talking about what anything else of my career has meant compared to that the point, and then that day I mean it's just light years different and it was I you got to get up and go. Do it the very next day and it's a forever going that first patrol that first mission and China is that feeling of okay, and you got, I think you ve got one or two years ago, that is either gonna get inside your head in a message even break you a little bit and- and I could feel that happening or are you just you just you just don't you just shut it down and just go? Do it and I found how to compartmentalize I'd come back
moments when I was back in my hootch up on the roof by myself, I have my moments, man. No, I don't want anybody to think that I didn't. I have plenty of those moments that matter fact. I still do to be honest with you. I still have my moment. I go visit Chris Arlington on his birthday. I go visit Chris in the day he was killed. I go to visit Chris Memorial Day. His mom comes out. I see cat, she is, and I are very close. I have my moments doubt, but the rest of the three months: Romani there was just not there wasn't a ton of time to do that. So I guess I kind of just saved it. Maybe four for when I came back and it was there minute- it's not good, but bottom gamma so then viewed did you come back and I mean obviously, like you said it ramp up a ramp up all the time and the guys were just. Everybody Larry, I'm not just talk about our guys. I'm talking about everybody, it wrapped up hard core got hot,
outside the the combat gotten intense, the enemy started, fighting harder than got more squared away and, like you said you and the rest of the guys there did the mission day after day night after night, and then one day you fly home There is now was that transition Are you getting back to the states interesting whose an interesting transition so from the time that I laughed remedy, so you would take up herself, will promote ethically, went to Kuwait for a day or two went allusion went to Japan because I had a check out both places jack. I think it was six days on the couch
from the day I left reminded him tat the day I land on points and Diego, which at the time was I wanted. I was the and I've been fairly good about this from my career. He's gonna want things to happen, administrative we can make those things happen, five get if I catch whether there's a flight from Japan De San Diego and I can get on that I'm going to get on that flight. Even if my co is the army like. How did you get here so fast? I got to sing in the guy in the paper I got to go and I'm out I want to get out quickly, so I found myself In San Diego executing my next orders, which the Marine Corps, did you go to Ramada to the factor into the fact you are you're gonna go back to San Diego from there which will be on your next orders lie. I knew was in Iraq that sending it was in my future. My wife already moved down there I told you she was living with my best friend Neil who was on that factor. Before me, so I go and remedy the his baton
I'm sorry. We show up my wife and my best friend are living together in San Diego, which was really good for her because he was able to catch up. And keep her aware of what's going on, but knew exactly how to explain it in a way that was it get a freak her out and you so depositing nodded downplay? I would call hey we're doing this no big deal. I didn't. I wasn't tell him half what the hell is going on and what can you do not share the story, so he was a really great resource for her. I paid very little time worrying about it to be ass. The eye was comfortable that that she had a good support structure which she really didn't. We we got married. I D put four months later to remedy sheep. She started dating a due to a job in a corner, Lebanon tie, was attacking a shocker and inform us after we got married. I was in remedy, so there was no light. Easing aid
and so I knew there was just I didn't know at the tide and think of it, but it was obvious looking back that she was just throw into it and environment, which is totally unprepared for not freer budgets me being garbage is the fact that I was in remains all over the news: everybody who's gonna. What am I Marines is killing lot crisis have come on an excellent normal September. Twenty eight I'm back in San Diego, like three and sixty five days to the day, I'm home and I checked into an if a teen squad, Like the day after I got on before October, first, I was back anyone at eighteen squash in San Diego, which is insane, and I We really point I was All those guys, an angle go went back to Anko and Cable issued in Camp accident in Japan. I was like waiter brows
no longer buys a high five great deployment. You know come out. I was just on other things and I extricated myself, extricated myself. It's rules into father. Are we supposed to do and for an order there, and I honestly, I think, also conduct myself like that was to be the best thing for me. Less, let's get home I knew something was amiss because on the drive home from the airport, I find us any good or national just down the road, my wife and my my mom, who, let us any hope of those who came a picnic Porcupine that my mom's great lady, my wife and my mom pick me up from the airport. I got pictures of them meeting me there and get the car drive from San, Diego International to her house in Pacific Beach and as we're pulling like on a Shell Sydney up to the house. I like screamed them terms, not talking or something like that. I said the boy
I don't even I dont know what it was, but I think I just membership in the passenger seat and some the gears disarmament. A truck Erica, whenever I don't know what it was but something's going on, and I think just the pressure is building and I'm and I have no sense of what's going on no outlet for it and they're like having a perfectly normal adult conversation that might an octave above when I was willing to accept or tolerate Maybe- and I completely freaked out on my wife and my mom when seen in the year. And here they were like also you know they are super cool, now push back and I was it was an indicator like yeah, maybe you're right. You recognise that immediately like AL immediately and it was that combination, recognition of that's not good
Clearly I have. I have things any to deal with it. I wasn't quite aware, so I knew no question right away and I think I think about this. A lot with other Marines and end the thing to experiencing. Cannot you ve talked about PTSD Alot. Looked at the subjects spent hours on the bottom line is every deals a things differently, tell me your broken or messed. I just need just just means. You have some process, gotta go three, they wouldn't we all deal with it differently. I may be taught myself into out thirty three as fairly experienced I was surrounded by very young Marines who, Maybe in my mind and have maybe the emotional a mature, maybe the life skills to maybe manage some of these same chaotic things in a guy's it saw Chris get shot in the eye may become a bill, myself uploaded as a little better equipped, and I was better equipped in my mind, and I was I in a matter of forty five
minutes from the airport in the house and point out the handle on something. So it it just all it was man it was. It was those two things like that's, not good, and this is going to happen again. I'm going to need to think about this. I can't pretend like I'm not going to have some sort of residual. You can't leave remedy, be in San Diego six days later and not bring some baggage home with me, and I was bringing some baggage on and there are some baggage their little bit so that transition was was it started. Is everything that light anything that helped you yeah. Did I tell you what help the most my best friend who had been in and endured all of that loss. I dont worry our story. You know the story, the guys we're where's the gas it replaced as it's a very similar story lot. They understand that You know, I think, having an outlet having one other due to happen to be my best friend super fourteen. So it was you
talk about just hitting the jackpot and being the best equipped answer to just deal and power through it and end and accept what's going on in an embrace it and all the things that go on with it. I had an outlet man. I had my best friend I mean he knew every place we worked on me. I wasn't even like. Oh, he was here how it was the same place. Mercosur model not that bad. It's not a big man, and so we say out on the corner of sunset machine is, I gather over five hundred times and and he was struggling a bit to let you again again. It's all relative Amene were handled relatively ok, you're, not going back and Canada or normal. But the moment when you get us all spikes and those is what can it comes up and get? It is all spices or unforeseen counter reactions. He could see that in me, I could see them and we actually been real were really good for each other. When I see him kind of get a
Gimme a break like I'm. Not enemies are digging his environment a little bit or he sees me. You had that other person can bring you back to helping in helping to deal with that which is good, but the flip side of that. Why was really helpful for him to be there. I was really tough on Whitney because she was not my outlook I was gonna of got cut out totally and not added in by design are doing this calculation about a woman. She does not I'm not going to use her as a resource for that and to be honest with you too, that's also a little part of me know what the corner of Michigan and Sunset is like, so totally man and Really, candid in all, I think it would have been almost embarrassed maybe not the right word, but I wasn't. I don't ever want to see that by part of the Euro may like and they took it this ridiculous of all vulnerability that how right now that I'm in a care with me, for God, knows how long that's gonna come about it. Nowhere and you're gonna have to just deal with it. So there was
I think the thing that bothered me the motion was part of just kind of getting back to day to day life was it. I would get. But things didn't go well. When I had my moments, my ration to get pissed off, he was that feeling of food. I have this. Some of that would happen something stupid. We catch my attention and kind of bite. My new, my response, and because it happened, I'd be ignored myself at a let it then let it bother me and that it be pissed off of my Because I want to bother me, you don't mean, like this ridiculous cycle of I told her the store the other day, my wife and I shoot a guarantee to remedy this. Walking across the street downtown no doubt but by the beach? I think and an auto body shop is run in the the original to pull some tyres african. You know that that kind of sound as we were walking. I think my left, over her crucial or like this. I hear that sound and my first reactions I pusher down to the ground
in the time that it takes to do that and catch that's happening is baby. A third of a second year mean so I hear it. I do. There reacting and pushing her to the ground, I'm kind of getting. On top of her to do look I would have to oh that's the car It's not a thing. There's no reason for you to do. This is about a third of a second and what bother me the boasts about it is that I did not. I felt like that, is it I really- and I was like embarrass like wrong. Me to take out, go through that and she's like what the am I it sounded like You know it can. I go then all thing- and I think just the the the fact that I had responses. Pissed me off, and I would just cannot normally have a temper about it and that was she got to see me just get pissed off itself for no real good reason, which you never really get pissed off. Like a mean, I have temperature purchased suffragist it. I would get Madame said that didn't make it.
I mean. I have a temper by things it like my computer pisses me off. Just like a piss you off, let's totally normal right, I would get I would have reactions the stuff that just there was no way for her to say. Oh that makes sense. I understand it would just be this totally oddball. Somebody would say somethin wrong, just it would just trigger in ways she would look at me and colleague who are you she knew my flash knows everything right wrong of me and all of now, I'm doing all those don't put another thing in the yes added to them. So I got my wife who we, I leave it going. Opponent come back, I'm home for maybe seven months before I deploy again in seven months. You know we're gonna marriage Dave Bert. You know that involves a year long, deportment, seven months in Iraq, you know who knows what the house on back to work on back at a squadron at the Xo Workin vacuous Exo hours in a fighter squadron prepping, gonna deployment. I I internally extend
I time to make the deployment, which is exactly what you should do it to be if your marriages volunteer, to extend on a deployment I got accepted, grad school get a good Dartmouth. I was gay, the marine corps is gonna get my mba and I remember the conversation of hate. Statin asked me to extend, and you know I was explaining- why I'm going to do what I was going to do when she said why. Why would you do that and I said and a boy, and you hear those words like to say that to my wife like so, which is, I can not be with you so I can be apart from you wise. I can hang out the boys and go do that not retired from the ring, yet it out and rigorous. So I cannot do other things that are not so at this juncture that I told you all about and sold. You are totally so to say that my wife and- and everybody's got of stories. The laundry list of reasons why she should have just sort of cut bade me like now. This is opening he's alive
longer than list of reasons why shouldn't have and props were did were. Here and my marriage with her you for all the ups and downs. It goes on everybody's marriage, the one thing I don't worry even even when rat our worst at our absolute worse, which are worse, is whatever it is. We have our worst moments at our absolute worse and have a shred Emma brain cell of thought, of her one of her marriage survivors in this throw down rabbit over God, knows what you know. So, We can't went through the fire there and she she got forged yeah big time, she's a stud. She deserves my browser. Go into that cause. I'm not really sure why she did to Gaza. You know what I like it. I can come up with a good reasons. Eagerness she had a lot options on the table, I'm not sure so it was that transition was top man the scenario in another squadron. You go on deployment again, which is another. What would you do that apologist Mars? So I'm back on
Dean Squadron on the excellent and the observation did both jobs on this. We just go to Japan into West Poker, Western Pacific, we're back and you acuity and an open our just doing The exercise education training- I gonna- stop get done with that. Its announcement it's time to get out and rigour before I live. Another form. I had told my commander, the group commander and disclosure Commander Commander hey this is it for me. I'm hanging up. It's been awesome. I happily to extend for this deployment. Did they need me to go on? I was great experience got to turn a bunch, a young guys. Life is good, but they knew before. I left that I was gonna be out of the marine corps at the end of that I deferred Dartmouth for a year my non refundable deposit, which I've never gotten back. There was an article of Malta, does away with the outmoded I wasn't kicking around the idea of get out. I was in full
execution. We look at houses like we're in execution. This was merely a detour to get to that end, state and or I'm due back from that appointment in January. I think it is of the following year and on it it turns out that the Marine corps wants to send a guy to go five: twenty two's for the with your force for three years and their excepting applications for the F twenty two raptor exchange, which never been haven't before never happened since was a one time thing and the guy gather they picked. You know we're gonna go to non, deploying in no US in five year. Twenty two wrapper. She probably apply. I guess it seems like a reasonable thing to do, because it if they say no, then you got your programme yet I'll get an long behold at the end of December. I get the word that I got picked up for this rapid exchange and
area. I remember Conway baby you're really totally. She knows what's up and I did a standard, daybreak, oversell ay and no deploying were gotta. You know it's all, yours, all, the goodness, there's no downside. You know and she's like shut up now she's out and she was good with it. It was. It was It, which is another one of those things like I can't say no to this- is just something that doesn't happen. Any just don't get it. Nobody gets a fly. They have. Twenty two in the marine corps costs the murders of. Why have twenty two's saving? I said when I feel have in top gun and all the sort of stuff so you're just another thing that I just couldn't believe was happening and I couldn't leave them rank or say, and I walked away from that. I just couldn't and she was told on board and came home and didn't get back my non refundable deposit and move to Vegas sort of finally of twenty two after three years up there in that at some point that almost there,
and their roles into the after five at some point, so I've, I'm fine were F twenty two's. How many people were flying the authority do at this point, so we probably had. I knew at the time. What number I was. I think I might have been in a hundred something you know. We had two squadrons that we're stood up and you know it was started to pick up the pieces early, two thousand aid, so that the rapporteur has just started to get its legs entity that resort of building more and started, become a thing in the morning, had this idea: they're gonna, they're gonna build this new stealth airplane cobia, thirty, five and they're gonna get it and they wanted Somebody go to the air force to learn all the but you really some others- are gold steal all their experience in all the pain that have gone through to stand up his thing and then you can bring it back to the marine corps. So the deal was this? Have twenty two gig was? It was really high probability in go right from the twenty two to thirty five. Man, the first operational squadron and along the old man. That's it
actually would have, and we went to Tyndall. We lived in tunnel for three months when I went through training and that was awesome, we're living on the beach in Florida after three months it get trained in the rapporteur, we move to Vegas live. Therefore, Three plus years started a family to my first two kids were born in LAS Vegas were were killing it. Man I mean it was all amend as I'm getting ready to leave. Vegas I get selected to command the first operational. If there's a guy there before they can have airplanes that a guy there's another seal before me, but I was going to go out there and accept and start flying the first F thirty five in the Marine Corps show up this poor guy was so. I could do the same thing tears prior great dude, but he in We sit in touch- and I were always in contact and help them stand up with everything and I get their Jacko them there. I think two days and the first airplane shut up. I'm like, what's the worst
do I hate you spent two years in ceasing airplane working on that Airbus paperwork grinding, doing all this administrative after prep, he gets no airplanes. Use you up two days later boom did him out of work? Let him in his guys went through to set up a squadron. I literally showed up at work stay. The further movement has rendered it look like this really is not hard man. What's the big deal, and here I did a turnover and he loved and sort of what kind of thirty five and You know that the whole part of my career- we can spend hours on that, but for the raptor, which is an amazing airplane. I flew that pretty fly, which is amazing airplane, and I can't I got to totally be relevant. The Asian I had sort of exhausted. I did things I wanted to do and I I love that are appointed to talk and I had reach all the things and we talked about this too, and when you leave top gun, you're? Never gonna. Be that good ever again, so it's just a matter of how slow. You can make the process,
getting worse. It's this. How can you slow it down to be as good as you can knowing but you will never be as good as you were there. Could you just you're, never gonna get the reps again ever you're, never gonna get it, and so, just a matter of kind of slow down that process and at some point in your mind, like I, don't want to be in this business of not at the top of my game without food have twenty two I didn't have a job I didn't I wasn't right. I wasn't the optimal the squadron. What did when I just couldn't remember from shore before the one I had some leadership responsibly in in the organs syrup grab the keys from someone it take. It out only been yeah run into the ground. Like a little report mail, I bring it out again Turkey's back the maidens guys and Hastings broken Gimme another one. It was your deal day. Who is awesome? Yes, so I did that totally grateful for my mom. My real combine, always professional interests with great which you dont get to do the marine corps. When there's a war going on you just don't get it. That and here I am and you
had no more friends memory Gorman. Nobody like me, they're all due and back to back the back to a point airlines are breaking and I'm living in Vegas find the rap all my browser, like we're done with you. Man would do nothing for you, so You know I was there. I was felt guilty. I did not feel guilty, but I always did almost did and I got a wheel, we moved a destined Florida error or for a meeting with a nice villains, awesome house and great community- and I was the first pilot- ever fly, the thirty five, the operational in the world. Ridiculous. Did that point you have ears and it was also, and then you what project busy So what Robert today so I was. I was so sure that I was gonna, leave him drink or after that command to her the authority that I replied. Dartmouth got back in again
got accepted. Did you have to give another deposit? No, I was. I was smart enough not to pay. The deposit deserves a tiny little possibility. There was an orca anyway. I did get into Dartmouth again, as I beg you to go to get. My ambien always want to get my mba, and I got selected for academic. Fellowship were basically got to go to grad school for a year and what did said the Senator Johns Hopkins University, masters and I basically want to deceive as a civilian per year gap between Those two things is another terrible deal. Can work I'd like to pay you to go be a full time student at Johns Hopkins, which which they did so we moved up to DC and I went to Johns Hopkins. And then the next thing we offered you is to go back and yes, oh from their that that the path
back of that good deal was to go to the Pentagon, which was brought wholly reasonable thing. I post command I've been to school. I it's really couldn't complaint about how tough my life was numbering courses in the last eight years. Order was- and I just went basically a desk job in the Pentagon and work for, and the joint staff and the german Joint Chiefs of staff just working some project, it wasn't all exciting it was I learn, a bunch, but it was discovered a kind of a man job. I was very ninety. Five strict hours don't take work on Renault Blackberry, no real responsibility, pretty chill life life was pretty good. I selected I picked up colonel while I was there the end of twenty fifteen o selected for colonel
and in the summer of twenty sixteen I selected for command again as a colonel, this time to command and f thirty five squadron, but I didn't want to do that. I don't know how this is going to come across to the people listening and what a terrible deal it was. The ring, Crestwood B Akerlund go faster, again and I'm not I'm not. I don't want this come across it. I was complaining, but what I the one thing that I in all those great deals and do they were great deals. The thing that I was missing, the most
Was it I always kind of fellow you had one foot in one foot out they were these non, deploying jobs, Airforce exchange the forty five job was kind of standing up a squadron. We weren't prepping for anything and I loved it, but I could feel sort of underneath the surface, a lack of investment I could tell I just wasn't. I didn't have to be hundreds hundred pot committed committed. There was no we're we're gonna go to deploy, we're gonna go to them. No thing that was going to happen, and I think one of the healthiest things about being in the marine corps. Jos prepping for something so even in the crappy. So you don't want to do you know hey we gotta do this because the end state is this:. And I was missing that and it sort over time. Sorted wrote a little bit that I just I was catching myself on the wheel, slackened line. To be honest with you to be really blunt, I didn't have to bring my a game. Every
I just didn't. I can do the things that I was doing in an airplane, because there is just an element that there was no outcome to. When I was preparing for And I started a kind of fine other interests like school became really interesting to me. I did that genocide. I continued my education, Johns Hopkins are working towards my NBA I needed something or wanted something else, and once you gonna catch in your find at the Marine corps and what they're asking you to do was going to go back to a training squadron. I want to go to be an operational commander with operational units at our prayer in preparing to go something I was going to get to do that is going to go back to a training environment I caught myself using the thing that was the most passionate about the Marine corps and seeing is more of like at three years here. This will get rid of this retirement in this amount of money, and it was just starting to become a little too national and not enough about a passion. Allow me to say I was gonna needed filling a twenty one year old again, I you don't need a retreat like that,
but my wife actually Sammy down we're talking, and she just gonna. Look to me as I do that you're not gonna be happy doing this. It was really clear to her. I think even more clear than it was for me it's hard to come across as ungrateful, but I I couldn't. I was not to be good at that job, because there was something that was missing. It was something I didn't there is nothing that I about it that it made me feel passion about doing it. So no joke man. Last year August, I basically told I declined command a decline promotion and to put in for retirement Zambia, and I was
big Move man, the pig move that create a splash out there in the world a yank or maybe it was it. Didn't it surprise everybody, but my wife. Obviously shoes till I got it. I knew it. I think my closest bodies I mean I talk to my brows- might not hide my brows, those guys understood but yeah. I was a big move and I was turning down. What by whole right by all right was a really good, great deal another. Great. No doubt about it, but in the then at some point you show up at a different kind of event in Virginia with life, and I working with a company for our company we're doing a leadership training for a company, and you decide to come down and
doubtless had come on down check this out. Do you think this yeah, so waif talk to make up for years ago, when I was leaving that a thirty five hour before I went up to the sea? I came in chalk on our doing this thing. It's gonna be awesome, hum we'd, love to you are talking about it. My came at him a moment on this other gig, I'm gonna schooling, gonna marine corps. We state in touch him in life was buddy is a guy that that preceded the times we reconnected here and there, and I certainly appreciate the call, but it is really wasn't in the document. I wasn't really. I wasn't there so and when I told him I came here to draw my letter, I'm gettin out and let us leave it Always the easiest gotta get all of right away to talk. Sometimes he's he's got a lot on his plays a busy guy and he text. He texted me back right there among the boss, leaving the Pentagon is ahead. You have time to talk right now, do so
called me and we talked for her. I mean probably a solid forty, five minutes to an hour and he's like Jack, and I are going to be up in Vienna here and a couple weeks. Won't you come out for the day my only read on, and he and he gave me you know I I was following you guys I knew was going on. I will see what you're doing things were blown up. I was truly braggin on my buddies, leaving jogger anybody there listen to me about it, and I watched you une lave. Give this presentation up there in Vienna to this group. And they you're. It was ass, a man yours either the smile on your face. We know we got down and that for day- and we sat- with you, you were in here like I am, and I want to do this. This Ah you are your prompt, and I think that was you know and then it. Actually we did I brought you up and we did an event with another company and there you are.
Involved with for a long term, and- and even then you know his enthusiasm for You know I want to see what you are going to do and see how you gonna do it, and then I was like you gave your first two paragraphs of talking here: you're fired two minutes of of explaining something else. It's ok go, I'm good receive just everything that we talk about all the time. You know that in the book and hearing you describe things, from the book, but with your view on it and angle in its Sir refreshing to me and also interest me, I'm even learning right so down here to different angle on, like I talk about with with everything or like we just talked about with with flying it top gun or, like you did, isn't Jiu Jitsu. It look like it in the battlefield, the more different angles. You can see something from the better you're going to get out of it here I am listening to you gone up. There's another angle pair we go so that was some and it was also the first time you know it
J p same thing, you know I I I and gave it is the first time J P came with me and he was just a sitting back like what you did. The first time use in the back and an essay may come come up when, when I do, Could I answer some questions and you don't think hey, if some go, sideways, I'll just be able to cover form no big deal. You know somebody asked a question and in Japan China gives me look like for and other ok, you don't go ahead. I'll just cover free, he spoke gives an awesome answer. I'm ok I'll sit down now it is as if they were the euros a year. You think an ok where'd you get to go with this with is a tough question or whatever and boom. Here you go, you no fire for a fact him. The end and both those two events happened really close together for me and for four me it was the Iraq actually called call think it was the next day or, as I might have been that evening- and I a life. You know we're good girl like we are not can have
do all of this ourselves because Dave and J P can do this- they get it they can, they can do it, and which was you know everybody in their own one, I think it's arrogance, but it's it's just you don't see it. And so you kind of think how is in your you know what it's like when you're in command to something. That's one of the really hard thing to do is let go. You know an inmate's talk about this all the time you know. When watching him roll out and out the gate for his first mission. I done all kinds of missions I got here, he's Goin out of his first one that he's in charge of and yours can manage it just go. I want to go, I want to go in and then you know, do hours comes back and you're like high five million, and then you go call. I don't have to be the guy goes every time and so on when I saw you when I saw J P outside this is awesome, Life and said we are going to be get to go other guys vacant, this they can bring the same message. They can bring the same passion and power knowledge, and that was very, very you know, refreshing to me and bottom.
Is the experiences are the say I mean for not exactly the same, but The experience and remedy the same and the new experience that we had throughout our military career and now you get see what it's like interacting with businesses and you see, although similarities, so that was that was a big day and so as I have made this clear yet Dave Now- is with us, partly echelon, front team and doing what we do helping businesses with their leadership in their companies. So its awesome, its awesome, haven't you off its use. For me, I told Ella in I left the Marine corps, some like there's something missing, and I can't I can't stay America's or something while you leave them wrinkled like how me hell am I recreate that thing that I'm looking for in the military. It's all I know is that's the place, and that was my biggest can. My biggest fear was gonna. Go like good.
Work, you know good do something that I saw was worried. I gotta find something and that's partners without first reason with you guys in the back like holy cow manner. You you ve, got to be kidding me. It's all those things you discuss all the things I spent my whole life living in breathing and learning and debt with people like leaving cargo from where my word order to do this together. Yeah so- good deal Dave Are you kidding? I noted earlier dude? I wasn't monster, dot com searching her employment opportunities. Lave call me come to Vienna might get ok. My head was a million miles away. Man, I'm just working through Paypal, The drop my letter to leave the marine corps like very hastily with know no plan. But there was no I'm leaving to do this. You can ass when you like there was this conversation about what I'm gonna do and I,
back from MIKE opposite? Here's the plan, and did he was instantaneous for me. It was instantaneous and then to be able to share that message and believe it and have all those feelings in it in a totally different way and work with you guys there. It is. Do because you get that kind of four you top gun for me, working in the training command whereas I will look at what I already talked about You you have this experience and when I was getting out of seeing what am I gonna do with this thing, whatever you do, that got all this knowledge, and I thought ok. Well, I guess I'll put it new crews box over here, locking up in ITALY in all fade away in turn and dust but when you realise that you can take what you learned and you cannot even apply it to all these civilian civilly. Until companies. It's it's a pretty. It's a pretty damn good feeling too you have to be out, go, go out and do it on a regular basis and monitored.
Things about. As you get to see the improvement you get to see, teams and again. It's kind of like when you show up, and you see the leadership issues you haven't its lead you're seeing You know what the future, as you know, how to fix it and you just go this can be, and you get to see these people grow and learn and and improve and get better, and if their already good you get to see and become awesome. If they're not doing great, you get to see him improve their position and then move in that direction. So it's definitely rewarding from that aspect. I know you ve already seen that with a loud and clear that book and in the lessons- and you talk to me of the title- the biggest- how U S, Navy seals, leaned, win. You're not a topic, my life is what I learned. No it's from top gun in the Marine corps, It just so happens like was it it's Exactly the same, I have my own long list of my personal experiences with those things, but as Tony the day like the concepts is identical,
and so there's no like big leap in my I'm gonna get therefore have an embrace. This is oh yeah, oh my god. Exactly what avenue over the last? Twenty three is only my stories this this in this, and this is my view that so again man, it was just so easy to just see and go. This is this is legit. I am I'm all I wanted. I want in right now, certainly not a hundred percent. I don't want. I don't wanna go with words, but with this it so happened right here, yet China to oversaw, sell it a little bit, but it was. I was all in five minutes a day, one where you been been awesome so far in speaking of echelon front if you want to have us, come work with your company. If your team or whatever you can You can email info echelon front dot com
If you want us to speak for an event, dont contact, two speakers- bureau contact in vocational front. Our com you'll find us there also we have the muster common up. Speaking of echelon front, the muster number zero zero too. It's gonna be in New York City by the way, Dave we'll be there he's gonna do look presentation, because you know what going to your presentation is going too far But the you look, I can if he's gonna, be there clearly as well GPS, communal recent Asian as well from his perspective on some things, ECHO Charles, you know ECHO Charles is gonna, be there will he be do a lot of stuff anew loop, a lotta townspeople asked me about the group, because I do talk about it
and I said a you know a month ago or something somebody asked me about, I said you know what I'm at a bring bring your professional, a professional with that specific information, so they will be talk and obviously life is gonna, be there Jamie Can it be there clearly as well these can be doing a little presentation as well from is perspective on some things, echo Charles ECHO, Charles is gonna, be there will he be doing a presentation? I don't know time will tell you know what he would present on. Maybe just and on you know, weak bring the intensity member, do a presentation on cruising tell me about it, throw a little balance that dichotomy right there and yet so muster. May fourth and fifth New York City, Marianna Grand Marquis, it's an event about leadership. It's too was for Lucia leadership. It's about understanding,
understanding leadership. Getting those reps in hearing all the different angles. That's what makes you good at it course its live Of course, there's no backstage, there's no diva, green room. There will be hiding in. Saying, bring me some green Eminem for my next set. No, that's not happen. It will be. Hiding is going to be all of us, together, we'll be learning becoming better leaders. We will see their now scores this, as this goes echoed rose. Maybe you could present us at this time with some information on her. If anybody does want to support this part, guess how they could do yeah small presentation small presentation, poos that, with a green eminence that thing he said with agreement, those buddy raised somebody Roth its David and I actually know the story behind us. There's a reason why he did that they would
a it's called, a Africa, what it's called, but would you go to somewhere? Oh, it's called a rider writing. Contract in the contract comes the rider and says this is the things that we need. So what did we ran from the inhaler would do ass, he would say hey, I. You know seven bowls of eminence with no brown eminence in them or green or whatever, I think, was brown, but he too no brown eminence in this sounds like a ridiculous request, driving who would who would possibly want that Bubba blah well, David Lee Roth. Did it for a reason? Why do you think you did it? Can you guess? Can you guess, check it out. Think of health symbolises he's doing a cancer. One night is doing a concert to later due concert, three nights. After that, too, he's on the road heating these cod, I've been using, there's all the stuff that has to be set up in all the stuff that lights and sound and sound boards and special effects and ramps, and all the steps gotta be set up and it's gonna be set up right. When he would show up. If
the seven bowls of Emma were laid out. There's no brown Eminem. He wouldn't have to go and inspect everything because he knew that they were paying attention and if he got there and it wasn't that way, he knew that these people had an issue with attention detail, and so now he had to be a go and scrutinise and make sure everything was in place. You're supposed to be little. Lessons learned from Baby Rauf like a little time stir us. Both Eminem test interesting. And by the way that story that I just told that may be a hundred percent urban myth, but I know If somebody, I thought, I'd industry, I'm sure somebody, I'm sure our listeners will tell us where that can be referenced yeah. For some reason. I thought it was somebody else and that's just how they were for their OCD or something like that. I don't know either way.
So you think about like gum. The reason you are such a important asset, giving your skill set as Forward air control at risk. Is because, essentially you have all this expertise, while you're in the air and you can bring. All that Brean in eyes to the ground, yet that's you're better than your. What here I mean in desert, absolutely really take up on that till kind later Dana's pre. Advanced. If you think about any any aspect I mean, if I give you that's why, in the corner of a mixed, martial arts match or off in times they'll be striking coach, radio Biagi it's! U coach and they'll be a wrestling coach. You know that now have those specific guidance, and sometimes they bring a specific guy in two corner like like dean has been brought in to corner guy
as there are going against specific Jujitsu person person, they want to get over that expertise. Same fundamental concept, her, hey when we started this part cast, I needed something that you had oppressor court booby, You think they d antics all those years of pressing record and then start and then record again some kind of like good you'll, echoing away thinking and doing the same thing is David really when it comes down to it, speaking of doing good things so was a big like breath. Fight you better cease. Ominously half now actually look as though a lot less. What I felt like a really when deep into the crude oil analogy the night Club Omega three of them
yeah, you know they love of God. If you like the myth of a good now is a good analogy, though the perfect analyses, arms, excellent. In fact, it was oh good? I wouldn't touch me get out. I want I'm sure, that's exactly what I'm saying you know. The EU is too much of a good thing anyway. If you know a crude oil is its little like what shrimp things be sure you extract up the oil and its guidance good for your joint or Maketh reason advocate virgins anyway, in regard to sub limitation, which I'm down now, by the way, I'm a supplement person, not all supplements, just the key ones. Doing maintenance. What anyone going from on it! That's the best ones ever know that factually so, if you want a ten percent discourse on that granted accomplished complex I want to talk about the sodium in the water situation, got a feeling we're just going to hear it over here. So
So, while dave- and I are talking through the park asked, are you just over your just dreaming up just now where you're not alone were now? When you say echo, how can you support and thinking ding you day been controlling all the stuffing going. Top and you ve been doing your stuff, I'm watching like sodium in the lake videos. You ever hear what you do, what you have done, what I'm doing asshole the more I watch, those the better analogy. I realise it is, you know, with Amazon collectors thing, so people want to support spike as an easy way. Click through the website, chuckled, Pakistan Calmness little support, tab click on it. Do your arms and chopping. Some people are smart when they do is clever, they figured up, which I think are mentioned.
Right? I know I mentioned it long time on the wet and what they do. They click on it and they see that you are owing to their bookmarks liquor, likeness Amazon It's only right on my bookmarks bar just as Amazon and that's what I did rang out even more than I did that and then that's a smart thing, to do good with supplicate, yet good way to sport be freed, the Amazon shopping click through there and that's really solid, solid way to support small action with a click through big reaction, big support there. It is also subscribe to eat if you're in, like the video version of this podcast, guess or little excerpts, that's all but on there, if you want to watch necessarily the whole by gas at any given moment, excerpt can take some value from that also Cheryl Cheryl yeah, you want to share with your buddy hey. I heard you got the situation goin on just.
Watch this to our already eight minute, podcasting right now, people don't have that kind of patients now, in order to allow a lot of the time that the aid of a time it's before they're, going to work, that new legal, listen for five minutes, they're. Like I got this guy. That's really, you know treat me bad at work. What should I do? you do ignored outperform nexus. Exactly posting a listen to this episode numbered you know what, ready to our that's a nineteen hours. Long. Do it not do is not realistic. Also Jack was a store Scott Joplin store We got a new design. That's all I want to say about it. So you go in there. Jacko store dot com. You never needed, namely the new shirt new T shirt. New teacher, a new t shirt is out at this time. It is currently a
This is kind of language a proud at after this is like a crowd. I wouldn't considerate crowd sourced idea, but you know how crowd demanded the egg, and I was a hey there. He put this on the shirt. Put. The sunshine makes sense makes sense, though it can extrapolated old ideas that I thought were good master move. The ideas that I heard from you, you thought were good and both there is new design. Currently Medea jock restored the sums cool stuff good for this stuff for women and Rash Kurtz. Their stuff, rash guards. No eight thousand interruption of thought solar rash it's weird rifle brainy. After this one, Vienna, Turkey, you know you think, like fire things at once in there all like jockeying to see which ones are comparatively large and that's what happened:
the rash, thought came in in one I think I'm gonna put a new rash guard, one design out as well, but they rushed guards. If you want nineteen percent improvement in performance, all aspects of procurement, all mental physical, emotional is well double bind tested. By the way, I think, like quadruple blind, and muddling tested all that stuff psychological warfare, if you're having weakness in maintaining unmitigated, Lee Discipline, in all things, listen to psychological worker yeah. I got I just got interviewed the other day and it was the guy. You know you set me up this question, no hey! We do when you're you're in situation where you ve got, you know you wanna, go to the gym or you're you're supposed to do some hard task,
workers some trying to do something to improve yourself and you did you know that without them, I said clumsy, and were you just you just don't wanna? Do it, you look. What should you think people should do then, and I said, do it anyway, and then it was all quiet because he thinks I want to give this big exit. But there's no big explanation explanation, is: oh this. If his hard yeah, I can't make that thing here for you. I cannot make twenty Rep squats any easier for you. I can't do it. They're gonna be hard we're going to suck, and I can't me nothing. I can do to make it easier for you, you don't you have to do to do it anyway, is kind of like I told us today that exact situation or that thing that you just said where.
It's even if you don't feel like doing it. You still want to do it and all the stuff. So, but your body is like old, it's kind of running on auto, like okay, compared to like a video camera right where you put the settings on auto and it'll it'll adjust how its feeling and that's how it's gonna handle any situation, the lake, The goes down it can adjust or how it feels. You know that to deal with this situation, So if your ring on auto, you don't feel like, dealing head on with this work out the Scots you're gonna maneuver around it. This can automatically no, you gotta turn it to manual manual, be like I don't care of their hurry squads easy squats behind what I feel compelled to do. This is what we're doing yes, exactly like a man. My control This control, your Monti and talk about that beef dont. Do it aren't like the autumn? It cause your body wants to arrest the really wants to rest weak. Your body wants arrests, everything that they actually you gotta turn it from out of a man. And you can get information like this in psychological warfare,
Itunes the artists name juggle? Java willing the heart is there. I never thought that I would be. I thought you had to pay, something or sculpt something to be an artist yeah. I thought that I think it's a now I put something on Itunes than they just know: you're an artist now art is nigh. That say that there really stretch the words on that, but yeah man, if you You know if you're slip, on the diet, wig up in the morning. You wanna hits news baby postponement worker and you want how should I say, like a spot to switch the dial from automatic to manual. That's what it is so search psychological worker on Itunes, chuckle willing get after it's a war on weakness, Victor
You know when you're clicking through Amazon, but where you can get Jacko White T there on Amazon, and you know when you get it. I must say this: when you get it, you will see in I'm gonna give you one word just a kind of what what do you intend, just just think about this dead, lift that's what he has. It's gonna come to come to mind with the dark awaiting its can be grown up a lot oh and by the way again quadruple blind double tested that you're gonna bring near you know men and what's the light, is, I think, the minimum that you're gonna get that lifting is eight thousand eight thousand pathos upon so get that you can also pre order way the warrior kid it comes out may, second, by the way just came out on Itunes as one of the most anticipated books of the spring all day it got lost,
did. How do you imagine that right gives book now sudden we're talkin, most anticipated book of spring, which means people are waiting for it and they ve ordered it. So if you want it order, it now nominate tell you, there's some people that are not looking forward to this book coming out. They are not anticipating. Those people bullies, but we are looking forward to day. Who else is looking for this? Coming up? Don't makers, people that may go gigs up weakness in a week, This is like a creature like all young creature in Lincoln, dealing for yeah he's not good for you miss out, because all those things are brought down. All those things are trembling make those things tremble harder order. The way the warrior kid for your kid, for your neighbours can
and for yourself you will dig it also discipline Nicholls Freedom, the field manual coming out October, teeth. I know it seems like a long time away, but I'm telling you should pre order it now. Why? Because when you pre order it. You will then know that it is coming. And when you know it is coming, you will begin to prepare for mentally and physically for this book to arrive on your doorstep. You want to be ready, mentally and physically, because when you get this book, you have to do certain things, namely gas yeah that one dream ownership. Of course the book didn't get it Now you have to wait at all, not just for you, but for your team. Your spouse, your boss, your boy Baby sitter, your mother, in law, you know she needs a copy of that she needs it, takes
ownership subscriber copy just be gentle with it. You have to throw the matter, but maybe just you know, place it on her desk. So she can. Because the more people you get in the game and start taking ownership of things, the better you life's gonna, be store up. Now If ve it isn't enough of us, you can find us active on the internet twitter Instagram and if you look at that, these bookie we gonna be here as well. Dave is at David Burke, echo is at ECHO Charles and I am at Java, willing, echo Charles any closing words. I feel like we talk about the movie top gun little bit.
Actually want. One question: one question you know like when watch top gun right, of course maverick. That's your guy or goose. That's your guy! Did you like Iceman confused pretty? Do you're a doctor, I do absolutely who doesn't like eyes met absolutely It is simple as that your own questionable found question, or did you ever buzz the tower that never happen that fake like you really do that really do you know where you can be in town the trouble as they say you can do anything once you can do that once and then what you're out you're out out of your maverick awesome Dave men. Obviously, based on four commoner. You got me, you gonna closing remarks and I'm sure we'll do this again and when you listen ass, you think how much I that we should set on this one. But
don't you want to wrap up with for today, Yemen. First thanks! This is awesome. I've been thing about this recover weeks. How we can talk about it and supervised up to be here, and this was this was awesome. You know we're talking about it just briefly, and I mention it you're, my my wife. Obviously I talked about the things then he went through so my wife and my mom. Doesn't my family s folks and endure toward We agree that, when you're removed, I think when your appointment, you do the stuff it's hard, but it's actually in some ways harder for the people that you Lee biogas internet what's goin on there. It is waiting and wondering and and dealing with it in their kind of holding their breath. I'm restore that when he told me when I was deployed, I do think that any the stuff, a buddy and Niels it come to the house. He was gone and he couldn't it in the house and a huge knocking on the window, which is by the front of the house and countering the doorbell
and it was an elite at night like not attended. Somebody should be at the door and she didn't want answer the door and she's telling me to suffer the don't think about this of you get back in here. The stories casino really think about what your family's going through cause you're busy in your doing your thing, and she talked about the thing that she hated the most people knocking on the door, because she was always a sort of a tiny bit paranoid that it was gonna, be somebody coming from to tell her about me in a Curt Chrissy mom Cathy Leon, whose someone, I am not a word to describe how much I love her and admire her, and it's not just about her lost she. Obviously she had answer that call for he knew she had take that call on June twentieth two thousand sexy. She took that phone call, but that woman has endured the loss of a movie who sacrificed herself on behalf of the entire country am I relationship the irony of all this is that I would not. I wouldn't
I have a relationship with coffee if Chris wasn't killed, and I would give anything to take that day back and bring him home, I would trade any But the goodness that comes out of that there is always there always some goodness that if you look for it hard enough that comes out of all this stuff and and the loss and the things that you sacrifice- and I know Kathy is from his And I never anticipated avenue relationship with with someone like that, based on the circumstances, but my relations, whether it is really important and what she has done for the country, is really important, and if you look hard enough in the worst situation you find something. That's good immoral. Asia with her is really good, and I would really it would be wrong for me to go through this whole Todd, Cason, talk and all the things to without acknowledging that goodness with her. So I wanted to mention that.
Well Dave. Obviously thanks thanks for coming on, and we ve been talking about this for a while and it's great to have you on it. Thanks for sharing your story with us the story of you, a marine. Fighter pilot, a forwarder controller but also a son, a brother father, a person. And yeah thanks for sharing the story of Corporal Chris Leon a marine. No doubt.
Our hero without question, but let us remember, let us always remember that these men. These men we call warriors these we call soldiers these men? We call Marines these men we call heroes. Let us never forget that their people. Sons and daughters, husband, in wives, brothers, sisters. Let us not forget that. They're, not only courageous, vigilant and bold,
aggressive and inspiring, but there also funny and outright. Jesus and flawed like any of us and that their loving and loved them at their people. People who left behind p and those that are left behind. Never forget by Leon's mom Happy Leon who wrote, but no, Brought his memorial page backing
Two thousand and eight, then she said hi baby. Another difficult day to face without you here. I never thought that memorial day would be in memory of you, my dear Sweet beautiful son. It's been one year eleven months in five days so two years, then I cannot bear the thought. We honor you buy food
the flag every day, and we will place your american Heroes tribute banner for all to see tomorrow. Of course, we will crime or tears and maybe find a smile or laugh? as we remember your deep voice, great smile, joking sense of humour, and though of you showed to us. Our hearts are forever empty and broken without you.
Miss you so much in love, you more all our love moment and remember Remember major Henriette rod. Remember Ro Christopher Leon. Remember those like them who have fallen. Remember them, as warriors? Remember them
has he rose but always always remember them. Ass people remember them until next time, MRS Dave and ECHO and Jacko out.
Transcript generated on 2020-04-12.