This is a Jacko Debrief, podcast episode to with Dave Burke and me Jocker willing, Dave, let's debrief, what do you got working with this company and with them for a little while, but they have have a are facing a limit of a chance. They got a competitor right now that, for the last several months has been prepping a release of a competitive. Brought a same idea same space of them and they had been building up in anticipation of this competition. Releasing this product and their plan was, they were gonna, go out. Can a canvas the country up a lot of face, face interaction with their potential clients, a kind of explaining them? The disturbance in those two and try to show that there are products still despair product. There is no face to face conversations right now some talking at the head of the sales department who had built the strategy on doing this face to face and

They cannot implement that strategy. He feels like they are setting themselves up for a retreat and that they are going to lose because as other company is position but better and that they are concerned about how that's gonna play, and they actually should be concerned. Will ya you if you ve got plan, ay and looks like planets, isn't gonna work and you dont know what plan B is ear uniform measures? That's why we contingency plan they can. Hinders the planning for it continue playing is something you should do all the time we play a is always plan, that's fine, but you should always have some backups release. Consider what a lot of people do another understand this too? We don't always of these other really worst case scenarios when we're doing their initial planning a year and a half ago I mean this. Is long range release. This doesn't just happen overnight note was really thinking of this massive change, which

totally understandable. So some of the the problems that come with this totally different way all the companies are facing its Alec, one company can go, do to face meetings, and you can't you're, not gonna, stuck in the same boat, the real issue here is we started to dissect. It was so we have this big way. Come out in March. This discovered way that should always travel down and the plan was hey. It's May June. I see the light at the end of the tunnel resorted to come right back up, it looks like travel going to open back up we're gonna stay with planet, as this I don't know if it's the right word like a second wave or where we want to call as it became clear that things were not opening up on the on the right place. That's when, when the panic set in and in the initial part of the conversation, is it what's, the role problem is a real problem, as you did not have a plan b, the real price, well, isn't what the competitors doing isn't, how they possessed

themselves or what their delivering to the market? The problem is that you did not put yourselves and we did not lead your team to be in a position to respond to this ISIS effectively, yeah, there's a little Can you a little bit about the way you said that so use said the problem was that they have a plan b. That's one statement which is here it, but then you also said that the problem is that they didn't respond and that's an accurate stay I believe that. The more accurate statement out of those two, usually the difference between those two right s, like hey You have a plan b, but guess what, when I got here with a contingency that I didn't expect. It's ok cause respond to it. So For me, in this particular case, I'm thinking this is more along. The lines of lack of response happening because there's a funny thing, the ways to make fun of guys in the seal teams that would start to play

contingencies and they start a plan for every. Reckon tendency and we would say, hey what you'll what happen? if you F, O touchdown and and three of your people are our scooped up. By UFO than what then, what are you going to great to me, this is a that's. What covetous I had, no contingency in my mind, where I thought hey you, I can understand, look we. A terrorist attack and travel get shot. For a week two weeks, ok, you know whoop, we there's a contingency plan flat and it's a pretty straightforward one. You barely even have to do it s what we cancel sums. And they were reschedule framing. This is me some that so simple you, don't really have to think about it, but when you our saying, ok, if you would have, told me to list out the top twenty contingencies fur national front or from any business I would have not put viral travel shut down. In the top twenty- and maybe I'm ignorant sure

I think that is a reasonable thing to not include in your a contingency list, which is a global pandemic shut down all right, I mean I know I should listen to bill gates because he did a TED talk about it and it was, yo see. There's like people that and it was very interesting on the political spectrum to use our people saying well, you know you should have been ready for this contains say how many contingencies. Are you gonna be ready for right and so instead of the well in it issued to being ready for likely can do that's a key word that we always used in the seal teams. When we talk Our contingencies, it was likely contingencies, prepare for the top three four likely contingencies. Once you get beyond that, will now what we have to do is we have to be able to respond quickly? We have to make decisions quickly and this is one of the main lessons that I've been teaching through covert is decision making is hey, I'm gonna make up

known, forbearing, very, very decisive. Why my known for a very decisive because I make very quick decisions, but The way that I cheat in doing that is. I make very quick small decisions where covered hit and we started. We had the muster happening in what was it seems to happen in may I hate covered here, no travel and saw muster am I going to immediately cancel muster. Well. I don't know how long cobras go after my begun by then what zones That is not a massive decision. Immediately. Hey Jamie called a hotel where shutting down no hay Jamie. If you don't know, is our operations directorate at national front, hey Jamie, why don't you talk to him Helen just see what kind of things we could do if we need to push this event back, how much what body that so she starts going down the road. That's that's pretty decisive, hey. I may

decision in five seconds right, o jackals superbly. Of the observer decisive could. All I did was to ask you to call someone to talk to you about something its decisive it, but but here's the perfect, it was action. It was actually work taking we're taking positive action, so Jamie who prey that's? Gonna leading figures of oh gosh, but what can happen the muster use that's a big. That's a big fought. What's gonna happen to the master, what's gonna happen. Well, know what to do well, guess what here's? What you do? You call hotel you were the options, are ok bomb all the a sudden, she's gotta mode. She knows what she's doing you're gonna garrison information, and when she gathered that information guess what we're gonna do will reassess. It will make another small step, so being able to read spawned too bad. Situations or completely predictable in such situations or,

situations where the information is an all that good. All those things if you're able to do that well, are the marks of a good leader and a good team when you aren't able to respond. Well, that's obviously the marks of a bad meter and a bad team, so yeah. I think it's important to recognise that you're not can build a plan for every contingency. Just it's not gonna happen and what you need to do. Is train and Keep your mind open so that when things that you don't expect happen, you can adapt two situation in you- can respond appropriately yeah, that's a really good point and in one of the interesting things that play it out. As this several month process went through Is this bitter initial there, their pre covered plans a good plan. There really well position that a solid team there in the game

you'd? Look them in the past is counter second generation with us they kind of embraced the reality back in March, but they never really. They never really let go of the what they wanted to do. This face to face, is the best way we communicate. Nobody. Does it better than us. I could sit down across from you. I can convey this message and it was a little unwillingness to just accept what was happening and one of the things it he was again very early on in the covered scenario- is your on your line? You head, you said something think of the very first one only repeated over and over again except this is real. You said you told people you got to accept. This is real, and so, as March became April people can turn to june- and I may be look for reasons why they could just go back to the original plan and the part there was the most challenging was from March.

Two July August that turning to plan was no longer quite is crazy, as it would have been. If we're doing this back last year, so This potential of not being able to face to face was becoming more smell, real what they started. Look for his reasons why they didn't have to do that. A I heard, travels opening up in the northeast, hey this airline is not, and so they have onto that too long. The outcome, that was just like you said the girl to maneuver what prevented them from from being able to respond, was the unwillingness to just accept this is real and accept that, as a is a much more likely alternative, then, if you to say, like I said sentiment, We get some magic crystal ball here. Come the Martians, of course. That's not a reasonable thing. The way this kind of played out, though, is when we had that first conversation was, I listen. The issue here is, as a leader, you didn't put your team ineffective,

to respond when he came back with. Was we ve got a two day? Role play scenario on bringing every sales person on my sales team on alive to day, zoom session. Can you support with us and wool play because we have be ready for that. Virtual interaction, and that idea actually came from a couple of subordinate couple. This junior sales reps, who had accepted the fact that this is not gonna, play out the way you think boss. I think this is gonna, be a problem for us. We're not gonna get through. To face and when he finally accepted this was real. It was often see that team pivot and him say listen. You know I'm miscalculated team? I got this wrong. What We do now because now were the weeks from this and they were able to go right into this today session that we supported and jumped on the cause of them at all. Then go through back and forth and help under the rope way and that the real issue for him was he finally accepted that this was real.

In an wrapped up in all that is is expression that you here all the time and it's it's that people see what they want to see. And that is so wrapped up in there and if you think about what that x, Russian is wrapped up in guess what that expressions wrapped up an ego. I I think things are gonna go this way? I want things to go this way and therefore, when I see you know the northeast, but up travel on trains planes- text Bro? What are you doing? We're good to give you something to eat northeast as they got hit first they're already out of it we're good to go, let's roll, it would have to work out this stupid all mine stuff. What could be back face to face people what they want to see and when I say people I'm talking about you, I'm talking about me? I see what I want to see and that's one of those

things that you have to be watch out for when you're a positive minded person. Haiti I'm gonna go get, and this is where I actually on MR positive see the good right all the time, but there's things that I feel deeply. One of them is the crunch, time. I really feel the crunch of time, because I recognized it. A long time ago, as the one factor that it is absolutely no mercy it has no mercy, you up that you let that our go! You those two months go by, they are not. When I have mercy on you and if you think but that, if you can If we pay attention to time to people's lose track of it, people just lose track of it. They think that they can punch it that they can back, we think he can turn it around. You can answer the time is always like a primary driver of letting me see what reality is because you're not dealing with reality. If you're not accepting what is gonna happen or what could happen and by the way, how much we do I give up if

if I think something is going to happen, I think something else can happen. What do I sacrificed by saying? Ok, look like I got some contingency plan for looks like I need to set up a security element over here in case we could attack from over there that that's you a good move, what does it cost me? Nothing, don't call me anything You can make maneuvers to prepare for thing, that are coming. Whether you're right or wrong. It does matter. You didn't sacra I very much to make this adjustment, so when you get down and you think it's gonna be for a month and then you'll be out of about face to face school, so we can do for next month, hibernate or sit around right what what what are you gained from that nothing? What, gain by saying: hey, look just in case in case I'm wrong. In case, the reality is we're not could be able to travel for another six months. Let's start commoner, with a plan on how we can execute this thing and by the way let's start executing, it must give it a shot

and if you do that, what are you sacrifice? You dont sacrifice anything and you actually move yourself and your team forward, which is what we are trying to do. Yeah, they're, so many components inside there there's obviously taken Should the problem there's cover move where people are working together in solving problems, there's a whole bunch of endeavour. We're almost there. We teach but all of it. There is the idea that as a led her yours, principle for your team. Being success have to do whatever is required to do that, and the only thing worse than the panic of recognising you wasted those two months or whenever that time is. When you look out over the horizon, we see that your competition didn't, and that was a hard lesson for them again. You know their ability to respond that had they had subordinate to step up and making happened, which was awesome to see, but that adds to the

He not want to you waste your time they didn't cause. Where does that put you that you form on spied reckoning, move two months, then you waited nowhere rough network, but he got company reached out to us. This was kind of cool, because when they work for reach out to echelon front looking for leaders to development, what they were looking for is they are vague. They got a company that works and safety is a huge part of what they do. They put people out on site and there they do with a high risk to wane and things like that. Safety is a critical component of culture, as you might guess, companies that work in high risk environments, their littered with young motivated typing, people that don't always think about their own personal safety and when they reached out to echelon front a lot of it was the experience that the seals had and they actually connect with me as well,

because in my experience with aviation they thought there be a really cool connection between the risk that military takes on the aviation, and in the grounds had enjoying a parallel to how to improve their safety culture, so they originally asked us to come and join them and we started working with them. Their goal was to help us or have us help them build a better culture of safety to lower Miss mishaps, lore injuries, and and help there their team when I first started explained to them ass it. He. Let me let me offer how echelon front as a company, when We walked companies lot dealing with the same thing. Let me talk about how we look at safety, culture, safety. Problems inside an organization is a leadership problem. We don't look safety is some sort of standalone, separate, isolated thing that you have to fix your safety culture. We have a problem with safety, you have a lead. Shit problem. And by the way we look at every No, you have as a leadership problem.

You are right. It is interesting that people trying to carve safety out as if This isn't really a you're gonna be saved, but ass. The debts irresponsible. The safety after over their totally, we have safety team. We want to help so the stated aims, then go make people safe and and what I did was I just made the connection between Our view of safety and look look aviation seem in the world. Came up with some decent important When I told him I said he, let me just explain how we see and see if we can find some compatibility this before we started working together since eight? We, do not see safety as the mission safety is not what we do. About why safety is important, though our mission, my mission and enable Was it taken airplane, go over and drop arms or or do we want to do with an aircraft from it? Take a team and I'm no cross the line of departure and engage in enemy there is inherent risk associated with that flying aeroplanes can be risky I want to ensure that I have a perfect safety record. The waiter

guarantee that I have no safety. Mishaps, no safety problems in an airplane is, I don't fly I will never crashing airplane about uncle finer points. The problem with that is I will not accomplished my mission. I will not be successful in the military as a pilot. I won't be successful in business if we say to ensure safety So we just want go door, job, we'll, go out on site and work in an irish environment, the flips Did I just ignore safety finger? I'm not here to be safe, I'm here to get the job done. To accomplish the mission, I want to take my team and go: do an average required you're sort hurt people here are breaking things. Units are damaging things at overtime, you'll, have the people and the equipment to do your job and guess what happens at the mission. The exact same thing you. Will not be successful, so there is actually a balance between had

having no concern for risk and being so risk averse and being so. Safety focused that you don't actually do your job. Neither one of those will help you a competent and when we made the connection they recognize. What they didn't need was us to train their their safety team. What they needed was leadership development inside their company and by definition, the safety culture would improve at their company yeah, I think this is on your phone line. The other day amendment with a client somebody asked about culture, and you know the establishment of culture and how important culture- and I got a little fired up talking about this, because is when you extrapolate culture out. Culture is actually the ultimate form of decentralized command is the ultimate form of decentralized command. If I understand the culture of my team than I can? actually make decisions based.

On our values. I know that an american service member overseas. We want a we we up hold the highest values when I have to make a decision about what I'm going to do. I can good decision. I can make just about any decision based on the fact that I, What do the right thing? That's! What trying to do. So, if you're in company- and you understand what the culture as you understand that the culture as we always take care of the customer, you can make ninety nine percent of your decisions just based on the fact that hey look the customers bringing back this piece of equipment that we gave them and they say it's broken. Ok, do pay brought Raja no problem here. Here's a new piece of equipment now get to a point where somebody brings backup. You know a million dollar piece of equipment use alien, no problem. No questions asked here know that there's a limit, but

you can make ninety nine percent of your decisions, just based on understanding the culture of the company same thing with safety? If we understand, where the level of safety in how important safety is. If we understand that the we understand that we can make ninety nine point, nine percent of our decisions correctly, just based on the our understanding of safety culture, so is an absolutely powerful thing. And yes, you are right that, where culture comes from is leadership and what's important when I say that culture comes from leadership, when I talk to companies about culture, I stay where it's going to come from people say the leadership. I say who were the leaders, everybody everybody in an organization is responsible for the culture inside that organization, it's not just pay the The ceo sets the culture. Will the seal it has influence on the culture but that sea. Oh can have culture in his mind, but if the people, if the

she doesn't under stand except acknowledge, encourage, grow and believe that culture that culture is worthless. Everyone that that culture has to be unified throughout the organization. How do you get the culture unified throughout the organization? well, what we have to do is we have to make sure that everyone understands why we have this culture. We to understand, that hey listen, you want to know why we have the culture the customer always being the customers comes first, you wonder why why we have that culture? Why well number one: we want to provide a good service, that's great we're good people. Provide a good service also when we bring good service PETE! got until tell other people about the good service that we provide people if you are on the internet, people refer us business. We end up with good quality rating, when we get a good quality rating from people, people come back. It grows

business. The more our business grows. The more people come in here, the more people get treated well, the more people spread that word. That is how we grow the opposite. We don't care about, our customers, guess what bad word spreads even faster than good word, and will with no business here at all safety? Why is safety? potent for culture How could we not to go and her yeah? Absolutely we care about our people Fisher guess what else If we have accidents all time, guess what happens to our insurance? Do you know that there's theirs but he's there's, there's owners that will not higher us to build if we have a bad if you record, didn't, want a safety good. They were a group with safety issues. So if, if we have a bad safety record Dave, if you break safety rules and you get hurt. If not, does you they get together? It's horrible for you, it's horrible for your family. It's horrible, freer, being able to pay your mortgage terrible for bunch reasons, but on top of you not hurt yourself- it hurts the company, because now Company has to pay more insurance. Now guess what happens? To price. We have to raise our price and now, what

yet more jobs, less jobs. We raise our price I'll, tell you, we get less jobs, jobs did. Do you see a job? No, you don't so the culture is not just something you can pull out of thin air and mandated on people there. To be an explanation behind culture, and the most important part of an explanation has to be why we have this culture and how the culture itself region forces the survive mobility and the growth of our organization that culture to decentralized man connection. You actually also made that on if online session from a question from one of the true pursue could join us on a if online. But that was one that I called you want out of foam on the phone after because every time something comes up, united on the phone talking about some leadership thing and doing a d doing it every that's right, and I

recalling you like hey. That was that the way you communicated that to them, and we have to the connection to the client- which was this idea- that culture is what a lot that's what decentralized command is built around and thousand really powerful thing for me, because it was this idea. That, in simpler terms, for decentralized man is a whit it's? What let people make those decisions about their boss being over there telling him what to do, which simply cannot. Dont get you can't be with all your people all the time, but it got connected directly to what you said was one of the problems they described as like what we only have a two person safety team. We can't hire twenty safety people exactly right. That's why every single person in the organization have to have to understand that, despite whatever their title is or their job or particular school. They are responsible for safety and actually their responsible for everything, but that connection of culture, which

So so all too often culture, just some sort of thing. That's we're on the wall. This is what we believe, but people don't really understand what it means. When I can now connected to a principle that we teach decentralized, man is a principle we teach and I'm actually able to explain it in a way that they got all. I know dogma. I read that the book you talk about that when you gave combat leadership brief to us thousand really powerful thing that work directly with them because mean a what Most companies can have an entire safety tenders running around. Maybe somebody safe they. They need to rely on their people to believe in that it lets their people make decisions that they know is in the best interests of the organization winning, and that was a huge point that made a huge input impact of this team amazing? How everything's connected isn't indeed

I would not want one more yeah it we we got so you like the fact that you prep these get awesome. I might be bullets. Do but I can't prep anymore part ass at around me. Did you did at least come up with a subject matter, all I'll be brief and all day long, but these are on you, man do the coolest part about it. When you asked me like hey, I got this idea. Think which do this? Can you come up with some self like Georgia, I have only limited supply mean every single day. I am talking with quiet we're working with about these problems and how applying the prince, was teach did, tell them come up with us, We should then there's an on limited supply. This and again these problems Might be specific to these companies, but they are relevant and apply everywhere when's. The last time you went on the road face to face will accompany the first week of March was as time goes on an airplane. So it's it's been interest,

and we ve been very lucky because we never would have been able to convince people that we can do we do over the internet, we never would avail to convince people if everyone didn't get forced to make zoom calls with their family and make soom calls you right. I was the boy had Easter dinner with my parents. On zoom, and that's when I realized ok this is where a different place now and the huge too to explain to a client is another good move was was We all just just kind of did this think of we, when we The council cancel way when applying cancel the lesson we would connect with to discuss where we go from here, yeah sure Let's do assume meeting and lets talk about what we can do to help you out boom. All the sun we're on a zoo meeting with it and we're having a real time discussion, and they can see that look Do you lose something on zoom sure you lose. There's there some there

there's, some element that gets lost, it is very small. Very small? It's a very small element. You, don't maybe you lose some of the body language. Maybe you lose some level of of of the presence. But the reality is what I'm talkin to two hundred people in a room. I can't see you see the facial expressions of those people who, back when I'm talking to other people and zoom call, I see everybody. As you are that I see as someone that's got that possible counterfeit their face or You ve heard me do this on here for mine, where Don't answer your question and I am, and they got up, they go. Ok, I got you dont like them, you were not there yet. I dont understand fact I did that today. Out of you knows, that's may I go. I gave a couple answers not go. You know those aren't the answers. We're looking for those were my initial probe to try and figure out what's going on here, but those are the answers that we're looking for telling explain to me, what actually happening and at that that would not have happened? I couldn't seen that guy's face and bidding

in a zoom call to be like? Oh ok, we can. We can draw down a little bit right now, look I'm stage, there's two under people sitting there there's four hundred people, there's a thousand people sitting in the obvious we're not join lying down into the specifics of it. Guys adjuration on call I'm right here. What what we? Let me? Let me explain why, on a tore him with a thousand people, and this guy. Ask the question allow me to give an answer. There's a thousand people there waitin. I can't see this guy's face. Barely I dont did we. Have the time and we have the we don't have the for lack of a better word? We don't have the intimacy for me to look at the sky and say explained to me what's happening. But when you resume call I'm six inches away from your face and your six inches away from my face could were staring at a camera that six inches away so that the the

loss of. Oh, maybe some presents the loss of some body language. Just in the fact that we can go a little bit deeper, it makes. Is there some aspects of a zoom meeting that absolutely is better than alive meeting, absolutely When I go on to talk to the someone's having a conference and its a thousand people, look you ve, put you put: thousand people into an auditory among the people in the back, you know they're, looking out when I'm speaking there looking video there looking at the video camera, that's projecting my big freakin head and by the way in the back, they can't relieving see that that clear, sorted looking at what neurons are looking to meet and guess what I'm doing I can see them and when they good question there. They are so there's absolute advantages to it and- and get these things on your phone line and that allows us to dig down and figure out. What's going on

It's amazing that you, you list off the fact that you have all these. I say: hey you haven't you. Should we can talk about euro area? Should we can talk about all that and what's amazing to me as all these are issues that are unfolds right now in echelon front to point out, which is long front. Virtual training, through the to webs its awesome totally agree, I remember thinking at first Ducas pay at I, like I, like speaking, I like to talk, one of the cruellest parts about this job, as it was very much we asked me, I like to be the stage I like to talk. I get it, animated? You can get right up with somebody, you can sit down and there is a lot of things about the speaking in. But think that I really liked I was. I was concern a little bit like hey. How am I d we're gonna be replicate that through zoom I've actually even found. You said it well because there are things that you can actually do this through assume that you can't do in person anyway,

its resistant to the idea that we can forge good I should warn. That's not true, because yes do something precise but you can more than make afford in other ways and it It is not an excuse or a reason why you can't make things happen, which has been awesome for me who likes to be faced faced check. So, speaking of all these issues, we see right now virtually what so. What's the third one, So we have a well. We want. We have a site manager. So inside a district had five sites, so district had five differ: operations at each one was run by a site manager, this site ensure that I was working with this larger company got promote, to disrupt manager. The very first task, the very first assignment, This newly approach, promoted, desert manner, used to be a site. Manager was one of the other sites in district was underperforming

You are now tat with making sure that they get up on the step. So what happened was. Is this Person who was a sight manager went from a having a peer, who was underperforming, one of the cites is unfair and actually making this site major, look pretty good, she was outperforming her peers. Now headache subordinate who was under forming which made her look. Because she had a team that which use response before and the real the core of the question was: how am I take ownership of this other site that I was working parallel to sort of independently inside the district. Now sponsible for this person's performance. What what am I going to do and say, to allow me to now in this new role as her his boss harassed.

Boss, getting them from being underperform into getting up on the step when before we were just peers working totally independently and the previous disk manager didn't get that person where they need to be and again, the internet question wasn't really that hard when we started dissect what her rule was as a site manager, her previous role and it was she having issues with just the idea like. Oh now, I'm responsible for this when before I'd what was what was the thing that she was drawn overcome, yet what she wanted to what she wanted to do when she was gonna. For very first conversation with her now subordinate site led was sound, a thin and how do I exceeded that I can take owners this. Is your district manager without Gonna come across like I'm just using the words of extreme ownership because she was struggling with how to say it's off, I'm your boss and and how I could take ownership of the problem that your site is underperforming and she couldn't,

she wanted to talk through. How can she sound authentic in explaining that this is her problem to solve, and this is something she's respond before she has ownership of so where'd? You take her well. The first thing was- and I highly reckon and to everyone. When you are, When you take ownership of a problem, is you the authentic you actually have to believe that is your responsibility? Do not walk in apply, the words that we teach rational in front and think those words solve your problem free suit. So would you questioning her authenticity. Do you think that she was actually thinking well now was, will be charged, but I really don't ya. Really know how to make the connection? Is I dont really understand how I could be responsible, because before He ran his sight. I ran my site and just because I'm his boss, now, how do I go back in time and say that this History of underperforming that I'm not responsible a disk manager is something I need to take ownership of leaving

the disconnect, was her thinking, look I'm I was over there. I did my job. What you need to get baby sat virus was to help this purse. Now that's exactly what it was. So ok! So that's that's roused mission. I can quite figure out what the issue was, because I was just thinking Costco Novi Jeans on the guy, because we got someone's on the phone. How are you how we get in their support and how can we help them? And let's make this happen, she was thinking not really my responsibility here. How my responsible for him? As a matter of fact, I hope I helped this person, I got elevated and promoted as a result of that performance and again it's it's it's exactly what you just described, which was What we did is we to spend a little time kind of dissecting? What her was when she was a sight manager and why you're standing. What her war was a sight manager will? her as a district manager with five sites kind of all answering to her and the that she was missing, which is but which is understandable, is her job. What just for her sight to do well. I thought what the site

and your does, but in a very simplistic way site managers responsible for their sight, she's To make sure her sight performs and delivers and meets the metrics and delivers on time, and she did very well that's actually not what your site managers, suppose you or Has a that's, not the only thing your site, man you're supposed to do, So the real question was: how do you, what you're five site leads to interact with each other, how do you want them to work together? you want them to be competing with each other undercutting each other benefits from somebody else's under performance. Or do you actually want those five site leads, especially the ones that are up from the others find ways to help those other sites? So the entire district does better, and that who explanation just gave from the safety is actually same thing to is that I, as a site, led help the other side leads perform. Well who benefits, and so the real The hurl was

hey your role as a site led wasn't just to have an awesome site that did really well. It was more than that and now as a district manager. When you talk about you, sites for rum used to be your peers. They hired from the outset to replace her in her particular job at the other? Four were people that were lit. Appears for the last twelve years is what is it that you really want from them operating in I was autonomous from each other and benefiting from their failures, or do you actually want to build a relationship where you share and challenge each other and for each other to get better and and your best practices and help them out and elevate everybody's game, and we talk about that for a while, and that made it a lot easier, when we rope, we role, played the the actual conversation of her initial discussion as hey I'm here is your new district manually role play that a few times. Tat is what approach that you take like a little bit of her opening salvo at the troops,

the opening salvo at the the five new start, the five site managers forum, which is known for years. There appears as the first part of the conversation was hey. Listen. I am so start for the opportunity to be disk manager and work and engage with with all of you, I gotta be really honest and I'm paraphrasing this is her saying gotta be really honest? My view of What I thought a site manager was supposed to do, wasn't exactly right in have come to realize is, as I've thought about my role as a district manager. Is that how I function as a site manager. Wasn't I really think we should operate. That's where the ownership peace came in and made it very easy for her to go. Oh, I can it's not even Horn committee take ownership of this because we all have to do is explain the things that I didn't do as a site manager and what I realize I should have been doing the whole time and then, when often there, your ear smiling, because I can tell

that actually resonates is the idea of hey. If you understand what you could do the ownership he's comes. Naturally, when you recognize what you should have done differently here, the note that I wrote down was outside. Once she sex on ram. Thinking like this, what I would have said that he did way that I paraphrase myself was that the opening up with? I was wrong bright. I was wrong and that's just a perfect way too, not an and and say look. You also means a competitive person. I was hide information. I was trying to kick your ass and that's actually not the right way to Do we want to be compared with each other each year? We want to do in a fawn positive way and right now What we want to do and here's where out, go right into it. What we, do is not be competitive with each other sites we, as a team wanted.

Roy, the other districts, I mean we go there, quick and, of course, I'd I'd, say that and have a good time with that until look, even though I want to destroy them, guess what I want our company to win, and so weird the rasper were also to show how we do it. So we elevate everyone in that's gonna elevate us warning to move forward. So yeah, that's a mean an exit and that's almost problem. How to play out. Was this district skidded dominate, but we can apply the lessons that I learned and I should have been doing back as a site, lead and apply that all we cross here. They should actually one of the things you to understand, was it Does that if she Domini as a distributor but also gets all the other districts in the game. To she also is gonna continue on the path and she's gonna grow and prosper the building she's gonna dominate what what she wants to do as well. So there's that connection and now Which is another thing I music strategy and charging tactics. If, if you're doing well

and you're doing the right thing for the right reasons. Your team, he's gonna do well and when you, he does well and they win Yes, what you win, Forty two minutes, little long still kept them under the forty five minute. That's good places stop. If you want to dig deeper, knew all aspects of leadership in any arena. You can join. Dave in me and the rest of the echelon front team, you can do it all the time you can talk all the time you can talk to us, live the online dot com. It's where we, solve problems with leadership, if you want leadership, guidance inside your organization come check out our leadership. Consultancy at echelon front dot com, as we talked about we doing this stuff through the inner webs you can come and get it. We be their six inches from your face of also written a budget books on the subject of leader, extreme ownership economy, leadership, leadership,

Jeanne tactics also have some other podcast gas podcast Jacko unravelling, grounded in the world good podcast and if you want to support any of these podcast, including this one, you get some gear from Jacko Store, dot, com or origin main dot com. Thank you for listening to the debrief, no go led, MRS Dave and Jacko out.