This is jack. Podcast number twenty two with ECHO Girls at me, Jocker willing good evening echo good evening And I would say that it is a good evening. Because we are free, We are free and I talk about that. All the time. You hear me say: discipline equals freedom. You hear me say free your mind and here in Amerika in places around the world that have the ability to be listening to this part cast lotta times. We take freedom for granted.

And we all want freedom, we want the ability, the capability to me Around and go where we want to go, but, more importantly, we want freedom of the mind and freedom the heart of those things, sound abstract, basically, things that cannot be taken away, we don't you know what that means to have them taken away because of the way We live in how we were raised to think what you want to think and believe what you want to believe. To be who you want to be.

Tat have and exercise their freedom to question the question. Everything that's freedom in there are parts of the world where none of those freedoms exist in worse, there's parts of the world

where any chance of free thought is exterminated from childhood, will broken dreams, extinguished, thoughts controlled? So let's go to a place where That is the reality and again I'm going to point this out. This is not this

don't be a movie or some post apocalyptic novel. This is real real life with real people. Red is reserved for the lettering of the propaganda signs. The korean language uses are big alphabet made up of circle, and lines. The red letters leap out of the grey landscape with urgency: March across the fields preside over the granite cliffs of the mountains, punctuate the main roads like mileage, markers and dance on, of railroad stations and other public buildings, they say things like this

We have nothing to envy in the world. The party decides we do. Long live Kim Ill song. Let's live our own way. We will do as the party tells us we will do as the party tells us and, like I said this isn't a book. This is where you, this is North Korea. This is the worry of horror and of slavery and of brain washing.

And it's also a story of choices, story of freedom And it's also a story of the strength of the human will. This is a book that is called nothing to envy ordinary lives in North Korea by Barbara domestic or dynamic. It raises a bunch of people that affected who Barber Denmark was able to interview once they left north Russia, but it traces their lives and what their lives were like.

And one of the characters? And again I would call the character one of the people that the book is named me ran and Going to the book hear me ran father was a p w and it talks about that IRAN's father never talked about being appeal w, but there is another fell appear w who wrote a memoir and, in his memoirs, have gone to the book here. He said that men were housed in squalid camps where they were not permitted to bathe or brush their teeth there. Became infested with lice punch The swarmed with maggots they were fed one meal of rice and SALT Water a day. Under the name construction unit of the Interior department. New appeared of EU camps had been built near the mines. Coal mining in North Korea was not dirty, but exceedingly dangerous. So

the mines frequently collapsed or caught fire, and that same I'm appear W, wrote the life of a p w was worth less than a fly every day. He walked into the minds. I shuddered with fear like a cow Walking to the slaughterhouse, I never knew if I emerge alive. So, if you don't know anything about anything the leader in North Korea, Yet this time, post war is ill song and you still here his. His grandson now is in charge of North Korea, but at this time of day, went to the book after the war came also made. It is

first order of business to weed out foe from friend. He started at the time. With potential rivals for leadership. He dispose. Too many of his comrades in arms, who had led the struggle for Manchuria to unseat The japanese japanese occupiers he The arrest of the founding members of the Communist Party in South Korea had been invaluable during the war. Now that they serve them, purpose, they could be discarded throughout the night and many more were perched in what was increasingly coming to resemble an ancient chinese empire with Kim Ill song. The unchallenged master of the realm. Kim ill song then turned his attention to ordinary people in need in fifty eight, he ordered up an elaborate project to classify all North Koreans by their political reliability. Ambitiously seeking to reorganise and entire human power.

Population the northward Koreans were methodical to a fault. Each person was put through eight background check. Your song bun, as the rating was called took into account. The backward one of your parents, grey parents and even second cousins. Loyalty. Surveys were carried out in various phases with inspiring names in time, save guidance by the Central Party was the first announced phase. The classified Since became more refined in subsequent phases, such as the understanding people project between night in seventy two and nineteen. Seventy four. So those things to me they also might just bad movie plots right. The inn

intensive guidance by the Central Party. That's something you don't want to mess with. And here's how they would be here life was like a little bit life p, Who would be closely watched by their neighbours? We greens are organized into what are called in men. Bonn literally people's groups, cooperatives of twenty or so families whose job it is to keep tabs on one another and run the neighborhood, the Inn Bon have an elected leader. Usually a middle aged woman who reports anything suspicious to hire raking authorities. It was Most impossible for North Korea, and of low rank to improve his status. Now

We talked about this character or sorry. The person me around that's being talked about and she talks about her father. And here's what she says about her father me round often found her fathers, passivity, maddening. Only later did she understand this was a survival mechanism. It was ass, though he had Hamburg down his own personality, to avoid drawing on due attention to himself. On the thousands of farmers, of korean soldiers who tried to assimilate into north korean society. Many slipped up, me ran mother laid her later told her that for four others bodies in the mines. Fellow South Koreans had been exit you did for minor infractions, their bodies dumping. Ass graves. Being a member of the hostile class menu would never get the benefit of the doubt.

Sarcastic inflection when referring to chemical, song or uninstall Dick remark about South Korea could give in serious trouble. It was actually taboo to talk about the korean WAR and who started it in the Official histories- and there was none, but official history in North Korea. It was this of korean Army that invaded acting. Orders from the Americans. Not there. North korean army storming across the thirtyth parallel. Anybody who remembered what really happened on June twenty fifth nineteen, fifty Knew it was wise to keep ones mouth shut, so even history even facts, that you learn that the country learned or just lies. Me ran, didn't have any particular artistic or athletic talent.

Like her elder sisters did but you a good student and she was beautiful She was fifteen years old, her school. Visited by a team of serious looking men and women in somber suits. These were Agua members of the fifth. Vision of the Central Workers Party recruiter. Creatures who scoured the country looking for young women to serve on the person. Staff. Came ill song and come Kim Jong IL if selected, the girls would be sent off to military stout training camp before being assigned to one of the leaderships. Many residences around the country now The korean girls, her age, did. No. What concubine was only that, whatever you might do to serve the leadership would be a trauma. And this honour.

Only the smartest and prettiest girls would be selected. I think we can all imagine what that looks like twisted men in seats of power preying on the entire nations for love. Young girls disturbing. Now another character in the book and I'm gonna keep using that term character year. That even me sitting here, trying to telephone, hey, remember these are people, but I'm calling them characters. These aren't characters in a book. These are people and this person. Was named. Mrs song and MRS Song was interesting about. Mrs song is she's a true believer The true believers- and you can hear some of this, but these folks at all,

Raised in North Korea, they just believe that they believe the propaganda. They believed that North Korea's, the best place on earth and everyone else is suffering and that because of their great leader thereof, Ives or better than any one else in the world, and she true We believe that adheres What her attitude, here's, what her life was like and her attitude was like MRS Song, usually went to work with one baby, strapped to her back and one or two days where's dragging along behind her her children, basically group the day care center. She spoke work, eight hours with a lunch break and a nap in the middle of a shift after work. She had to spend several more hours and ideological training in the fact. Risotto Torreon. One day, the lecture might be about the struggle against: U S, imperialism on other time it might be, came, ill songs exploits actual, exaggerating fighting the Japanese during World war. Two she had

Right as he's on the latest pronouncements of the workers party,. By the time she got home, it would be ten thirty p m You do, or housework and cooking then get up before dawn To prepare herself and her family for the day ahead before leaving home around seven a m she seldom Slept more than five hours some days were harder than others. On Wednesday morning she had to report to work early for mandatory meetings of the Socialist women's federation fry the night she state, especially late for self criticism. In these sessions, members of her work unit, the department, which he was assigned would stand up and revealed to the group anything they had done wrong. Missis. Would usually say in all sincerity sincerity that feared she wasn't working hard enough. Mrs song believed what she said:

all those years of sleep deprivation, all those lectures and self criticisms. The very same tools used in brainwashing or interrogations had wiped out any past. Billowy of resistance she had been more did into Kamal songs. Improved human beings camels, songs go, wasn't merely to build a new country. He wanted to build better people to reshape human nature. Once in power, Camille Song, we too ideas develop during his time as an ant digest. Beneath guerrilla a fighter as instruments. Into instruments of social control here dotted North Koreans that their power as human beings came from

subsume in their individual will to that of the collective Lecter couldn't go off Willy nilly doing whatever the people chose do some democratic process. The people had to follow one absolute supreme leader without question- that leader, of course was Kim Ill sung himself. So there being told Through multiple channels, through ray instrument available new, papers, radio, television, all controlled by the state and through all he's there being told that they have to submit their individual will and perform at the will of the collective.

Did you know you you will hear me refer to for me. The most important piece of humanity is the individual in individual freedom, And obviously this attitude is the opposite of individual freedom, and also you gotta, remember from a leadership perspective. The way you maximize a teams, effort isn't free, HU, a Supreme Authority trying to control everything. It doesn't work, that's why we have a little something called decentralized command. I. Want my front line leaders to think I want my frontline troops to understand they're trying to make happen and use their free will to make it happen, use their own brain to make it happen,

if you're gonna leadership position and you realize that you're trying to control everything yourself you're, not getting the most effective performance from your team. And we're going to see this on a grand scale. But we do see it on a grand scale. Win Gov when I try to control humans. It doesn't work. Now it might seem crazy that you would buy into this propaganda and here's a here's, paragraph in a statement about that back to the book, we laugh it. The excesses of propaganda and the girl ability of the people, but concern that their indoctrination began in their infancy during fourteen our day, spent in factory day care centres that for the subsidies fifty years, every song, film, new,

paper article a billboard was help was designed to deal I can also that the country was hermetically sealed to keep out. Anything that might might cast doubt Kamal songs Divinity, who could possibly resist? Tell you not to being told that this guy is the leader. You being told these God. In nineteen. Seventy two on the occasion of its sixtyth birthday, the traditional milestone in korean culture, the workers party began to beating lapel pins of chemical song Before long, the entire population was required to wear them on the left. Breast over the heart. In MRS Songs home, as in every other, a framed pour sort of chemical song hung Otherwise bear wall. People were not permitted.

With anything else on that wall, not even pictures of their blood relatives. The children were never to forget that they owed everything to the national leadership North in children. They didn't celebrate their own birthdays, but those Kamal Song on April fifteenth John IL on February, sixteenth. When the time came, the children lined up in front of the portraits to express their gratitude in unison. They would bear. From the waste Boeing deeply with feeling thank you. Dear father Kim ill song. The children repeated as their mother looked on with satisfaction, Televisions and radios and North Korea are pre set, so they can risk Eve, only official government channels, still

The programming was relatively entertaining Besides the usual speeches of chemical song on a typical weak night, you might have sports concerts, television dramas and movies produced by Kimmel Kim Jong IL's films, studio on weekends, you might get a russian movie as a special treat the newspaper, would occasionally run feature stories about heroic children, who read it out their parents to be done. Balanced by a neighbour for bowed mapping. The regime was nothing extraordinary. We get a real feeling for what we ve got going on here now. What happens when the government tries to control everything, and you take, though, the free

of the people away. Communism. Obviously in things are not as productive as they could be. That's what happens when there's no individual drive to succeed, because if you're, a farmer once you plant you food it's gonna, get taken away by the government and redistributed. So what you're? What you're? Drive to grow the right amount of food or more food, there is none cuz, all taken away, anyways like the old they avoid punishment, for they do the minimum. Yes, rather than the opposite, when they strive for the maximum. That means their focus on what can be the arrest of waiting. What can be yes,.

And so now this again, I'm a breathing through chunks of this book to get some of the highlights. So now we're into the eighties and we're starting to run out of food. Kim Jong IL who, by the eighteen, was increasing means assuming his father's duties offered on the spot guidance to to address. Countries woes father and son, were experts and absolutely everything be geology or farming. Kim Jong IL onsite instructions and his warm benevolence are bring out to bring about a great advance in goat breeding and output of dairy products. The korean Central NEWS Agency, opined after Kim Jong IL visited a goat farm near chunk in so that's the kind of

That's gonna headlines in the news. One day he would decree that the countries that switch from rice to potatoes for its staple food, the next who decide that raising ostriches was the cure for North Korea's food, sorted shortage. The country lurch from one hare brained scheme to another, so The fact that matters, even if this guy was a brilliant, was a brilliant farmer he's not taking into out the various to rein in the different climates Are in the area and who can get what done where few let the free market decide. Can be grown and let individually was decide and let freedom guide, people. Things work things find away. The control does not work and you'll see that here back to them

book soon- the country with sucked into a vicious death spiral without fuel oil and raw material. It couldn't keep the factories running, which meant it had nothing to export with no exports. There was no hard currency and without her currency fuel. Imports fell even further and the electricity stopped. The coal mines couldn't operate without electricity because they required electric pumps to siphon water. The shortage of coal, or worse in the electricity shortage, electricity shortage, further lowered agricultural output, even the collective arms could not re properly without electricity never been easy to eke out enough harvest from North Korea's hard scrap while terrain for a population of twenty three million and the agri.

Cultural techniques developed to boost the output, relied on electrically powered artificial irrigation systems and on camera, fertilizers and pesticides produced in fact please that were now closed for lack of fuel raw materials. North Korea started running out of food, and his people went hung. They have the energy to work and so output plunged further the economy was in a free fall. North Korea was the last. Play found place on earth were virtually all staples are grown on collective farms. The state confiscate the entire harvested and gives a portion back to the farmer, but, as this withered in the early nineties nineties, the farm, themselves were going hungry and began stashing some of the harvest away there were stories from the countryside of roofs that collapse under the weight of grain hidden away in the eaves before

was also neglected. Could the collective fields for their private kitchen next to their houses or small. Steep plots carved out at the side of uncultivated mountain slopes driving the countryside, you could see clearly the contrast between private gardens bursting with vegetables being Paul soaring skyward vines drooping with pumpkins next to the collective fields, with their stunted hunted haphazard, rows of cord that had been planted by so called volunteers, doing their patriotic duty case in point. Koreans like to think to themselves as tough, and so they are the propaganda machine launched a new campaign playing up

in pride by recalling a feeble from nineteen. Thirty eight to nineteen, thirty, nine, which came also commanded, a small band of anti japanese guerrillas, fighting against thousands of enemies and twenty degrees below zero, braving through a heavy snow, fallen starvation, the red flag, fluttering in front of the rank arduous march, as they called it, would later become a metaphor for the famine and here's a One of the statements that they would make no force on earth can borrow the korean people for making an onward March for victory and the revolutionary spirit of the arduous march and the D pay DP

r K will always remain a powerful nation, democratic people's Republic of Korea, so people are starving. And the government of Saint yeah we're gonna drive on it's a tough road, but we're gonna make it. Enduring hungry, became part of one's patriotic duty. The board's went up in Pyongyang touting the new slogan: let's eat, to meals a day Green television ran a documentary about a man who stomach burst. It was claimed from eating too much rice in any. Case. The food shortage was temporary agriculture, Agri cultural officials, quoting the newspapers, reported that bumper crops of rice were expected in the next harvest. When the foreign

press reported on food shortages in north in the north in nice Ninety to the north Korea. New service was indignant and here's what the new north korean new service had to say this state. Supplies the people with food at a cheap price so that the people we do not know how much rice COS This is the reality of the new More than half of Korea. All people, live a happy life without any worries about food in our land. People are starving, The government is lying. If North Koreans pause to contemplate the obvious inconsistencies and lies in what they were told, they would find themselves in a dangerous place. They didn't Have a choice they couldn't Either country dispose of their leadership, speak out or protest inward

defeat in the average citizen, had the discipline himself not to think too much. Then there was the net true human survival, instinct, to be optimistic, german Jews in the early nineteen, thirty two told themselves: it couldn't get any worse. The north Koreans deceive themselves. They thought it was temporary things would get better. A hungry stomach, should, believe a lie, but somehow it did. Along with the new propaganda campaign, the regime stepped up its extensive network of domestic surveillance. The more there was to complain about the more important was to ensure that nobody did now at this point further in the book. Moran

has gone off the college to become a teacher and she shows up there and this is what she deals with the food industry, Half a terry was even worse: North Korea, starting its let's eat, to meals, a day campaign, but the school took a step further. Offered only one meal offensive. Made of salt, water and dried turnip leaves the cafeteria would would sometimes had a spoon of rice and corn that had been cooked for hours to pump up the greens. The roles in college began getting sick. One of me Rand's room

it was so malnourished that the skin was breaking off of her face. She dropped out of school and others followed now doing During the middle of this Camille song dies, and you know it some, it's crazy do here, how the people reacted in so many start off. With this announcement that was made in a long little move along announcement, but just to get the tone of it is worth it here the Central Committee of the Workers Party of Korea, this its military commission of the Party, the national debt,

the commission, the central People's committee and administration, counsel of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea report to the entire People of the country, with deepest grief, that the great leader com Kim Ill song. Generals criteria of the Central Committee of the Workers, Party of Korea and president of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, passed away from a sudden attack of illness at two p m or risk backed fatherly leader, who has devoted his whole life to the popular masses, cause of dependence gauged himself entire listen, energetic activities for the prosperity of the mother. Land and the happiness of the people for the real. Notification of the country and independence. Of the world, to the last moment,

Of his life departed from us to our greatest sorrow, very disturbed, and what's crazies, you hear all these bureaucratic names. That's what's crazy about all these government Organizations. Taking away at the people in here's some of the reactions the morning that went through and in people like MRS Song, who is a true believer. This is how they felt. The old women wailed. How could you leave us so suddenly the men screamed.

Those waiting and lied, would jump up and down pound their heads collapse into theatrical swoons rip, their clothes and pound their fists at the air. It futile rage. The men copiously, is the women. The histrionics of grief took on a competitive quality who could Beat the loudest who is most distraught the mourners were egg dawn by the tv news, which broadcast hours and hours of people wailing grown men with tears, rolling down their cheeks banging their heads on trees, sailors banging their heads against the mass of their ships, pilots, weeping in the cockpit and so on. These scenes were interspersed with footage of lightning in pouring rain. It looked like Armageddon.

Our country is enveloped in the deepest sorrow in the five thousand year. History of the korean nation, intoned in announcer on television in these little miss that they throw out there like this one here's an official release when the great Marshall died, thousands of cranes descended from Heaven, Deaf fetch him. The birds couldn't take him because they saw that North Koreans cried and screamed and pummelled their chests, pulled their hair and pounded the ground they couldn't. Let him go. But nonetheless, despite the heroic efforts of the grand marshal the famine continued

And here we go to another person in the book whose name is doktor. Came a woman doctor in North Korea in the pediatric word, doktor came noticed, at her patients were exhibiting Q your symptoms Children she treated born in the late. Eighteen eighties and early ninety nine. These were surprisingly smaller, even smaller than she'd, been as the tiniest kitten. Her elementary school class now they're up Her arms were so skinny. She couldn't circle them with her thumb and forefinger hours. There must, her tone was weak. It, was a syndrome known as wasting where the star carved body, eats away at its own muscle tissue, children came in for constipation that was so acute. They were doubled over in pain screaming. The problem was with the food

housewives. It started to pick weeds and wild grasses to add to their soup to create an illusion of vegetables. Corn was increasingly the staple again instead of rice for people having leaves husks. Stems and Cobb's to make it go further. That was okay for adults, but it couldn't be digested by. Tenders, stomachs of children, the babies were the worst shapes Their mothers themselves Undernourished didn't produce enough breast milk for them. Baby formula was non existent and milk was rare in the past Mothers who couldn't produce enough breast milk would feed their babies a watered down candy made of made from cooked rice.

But now most of them couldn't afford rice either and here's doktor came talking about the toddlers They would look at me with accusing eyes. In four year olds knew they were dying and that I wasn't doing anything to help them. Doktor Kim told me years later. All that Capable of doing was the cry with their mothers and their bodies afterwards, Doktor Kim hadn't the doktor long enough to have erected the protective wall that would insulate her from the suffering around her. The children's pain was her pain. Years later, when I asked her if she remembered any of that,

children who had died on her watch. She answered sharply- I remember all of them now Ran his graduating college and she's, an actual school teacher, and actually you environment of school teachers with that they now need to know how to play the accordion, which is like a transportable instruments. So therefore, is considered to be a good thing, because you could carried on march so all school teachers had to play the? According to these, they sang songs like this, and they would sing it with the class our father. We have nothing to it. We in the world. Our house is within the embrace of the workers party. We are all bound. There's an sisters even if a sea of fire,

towards a sweet. Children do not need to be afraid. Our father is here. We have nothing to envy in this world. Another one of the songs that they'd sing warehouse, We gone, we ve gone the forest where be going we're going over the hills? What going to do. We are going to kill japanese soldiers and another classic that was taught the music classes called shoot. The Yankee bastards. Our enemies are the american bastards who are trying to do. Over a beautiful fatherland with guns That I make with my own hands, I will shoot them: bang, Bang, bang that idea of nothing to envy in the world and in again,

it was you read through this book. You hear the people saying that they believed wholeheartedly that they had nothing to envy in the world That this dismal life of some our or near starvation was as good as it gets. Then here's what the hunger would look like in school accords me ran each child was supposed to bring from home a bundle of firewood for the furnace in the school basement, but many had trouble carrying it they're big heads lol, on top of scrawny necks their delicate rib cages protruded over their way, so small that she could encircled them with her hands. Some, and we're starting to swell in the stomach. It was all becoming Clear to her me ran. Ever seeing a photograph of a famine victim in Somali with obtruding stomach. Although she didn't know the medical terminology she remembered from our teachers Teachers college corps,

on nutrition that was caused by severe protein deficiency me ran, also noticed that the children's black hair was getting later more copper, toned. It was always the same progression, first the family, wouldn't be able to send the quota firewood, then the lunch bag would disappear. Then the child would start participating in class and would sleep through recess, then without explanation. The child would stop coming to school. Over three years and Roman in the kindergarten drop from fifty students to fifteen happened, all those children may ran, didn't pry too deeply for fear. The answer she didn't want to hear

decade later, when we ran, was a mother herself trying to lose reproached Peggotty wait through aerobics. This period of her life, waited like a stone on her conscience. She asked felt sick over what she did and didn't do to help the young students. How could she have eaten so well herself when they were starving axiomatic that one death is a tragedy, a thousand a statistic. So it was for me ran. She didn't realize that in her there's that her indifference was an acquired survival skill in order to get through the night He nineties alive one had to suppress any impulse to share food avoid going insane one the learned to stop caring in time. We ran would learn how to walk around a dead body on the street without paying much attention. She could

a five year old on the verge of death, without seeing a feeling obliged to help. If she wasn't going to share food with her favorite pupil, she certainly was a going to help a perfect stranger in here. Some. I guess I would say, thoughts on a famine, or realities of famine. In a famine people. Don't necessarily starve to death. Often some other ailment gets them first. Chronic malnutrition impairs the bodies, ability to battle infection and the hungry become increasingly susceptible to tuberculosis tuberculata. Suspend typhoid, starved. Body is too weak to metabolize antibiotics, even if there are available and normal nor We curable these illnesses suddenly become fatal. Why

fluctuations body chemistry, trigger strokes and heart attacks people die from, eating substitute foods that their bodies can digest starving. She can be a sneaky killer. That disguises itself under bland statistics of increased. Child mortality or decreased life expectancy. It leaves behind only circumstantial evidence of CS morality as access mortality statistics. That show a higher than normal des during a certain period, yet Other gratuitous cruelty, the killer, famine targets, the most innocent the people who never steel food lie, cheat break the law or betray a friend It was a phenomenon that italian writer Primo leave identified after merging from outwits when he

tat. He and his fellow survivors never wanted to see another one again, one another Again after the war, because they had all done something which they were ashamed. As MRS Song would observe a decade later when she fell back on, the people she knew who died during those years. It was the simple and kind hearted people who did what they were told. They were the first to die. My one thousand nine hundred and ninety eight, an estimated six hundred thousand to two million North Koreans had died as a result of the famine as much, ten percent of the population by the End of ninety ninety eight, the worst. The family was over. Not necessarily because anything had improved, but

as MRS Song later surmised, because there were fewer mouse to feed. Everybody who is going to die was already dead. Now. That's how the famine wrapped up, but to go a little bit in depth of what it was like. Once the famine was raging, people became homeless, which was still age because in North Korea they never had a problem with homelessness, because if you wanted food you needed eleven, your home is it. The government would allegedly bringing food will once they want bringing food any more. There was no reason stayed home. Now you had people going out trying. To survive in this looks a little bit about that, especially for the children. It was a dangerous life, the children could. Sleep without worrying that somebody, perhaps another gang member, would steal what little they had. There was,

in stories going around about adults who preyed on children not just for sex but for food higher was told about people who would drug children killed them and butcher them from meat Behind the station near the railroad tracks were vendors who cooked up soup and noodles over small burners. And it was said that the great chunks of meat floating in the broth or human flesh. The stories got more and more horrific supposedly one father went so insane with hunger that he ate his own baby, a market woman. Said to have been arrested for selling soup made from human bones from interviews with the defectors, it does appear There were cases in which people

were arrested and executed for cannibalism. Did: are wonderful LE leaders do during this here's how they handled the people as the p, we'll start black market to sort of grown these gardens in selling what they could get. Your people started to try and survive. Through exercising their personal freedoms. Then here's one of the ways that your hears their comments about this is coming from Kim Jong IL. As well as any other. Words strong men, he understood per. We, the cliche, that an absolute This regime needs absolute power. Everything good in life was to be bequeathed by the government. He couldn't taller,

people going off to gather their own food or buying rice with their own money. Telling people to solve the food problem on their own only increases the number of farmers markets and peddlers. In addition, this crew its egoism among the people and the base of the parties class may come to collapse. So he's trying to stop people from solving the problems selves, which they have the capability to do, and they don't talk about it too deeply here, but they go into that the massive black market that will start Then there's people that were survive more people that were doing that. There were figuring out a way to make money and Kim Jong IL retaliated against that free market excessively to try and stop. It was better that people die of starvation. Dna.

Have the freedom to try and lead Get their faintly to survive, and here is an example of what they did with one man was trying to get money. So his family could survive back to the book, the and was accused of climbing electric poles and cutting copper wire to sell the theft Cause extensive damage to the nations property and was done with the intention to damage our social system. It was an act of treason, aided the enemies of the socialist state. The prosecutor read his voice, bellowing through the scratches speakers. Then a man acting as a sort of lawyer for the accused spoke, although he offered no defence. I have determined that what the prosecutor says is true, accused is the hereby sentenced to death and the sentence

will be carried out immediately decreed a third man. The condemned man was bound. Turn to a wooden stake at the eyes, the chest and the legs. The firing squad would aim to sever the ropes in order. Three bullets Each location, nine in total, top to bottom first The lifeless head would slump over so that the body would crumple in an orderly heap at the foot of the stake need an efficient. It would look like this condemned. Man was Boeing and deaf as if to apologize. A murmur went through the crowd who thought the Execution was excessive punishment for a minor theft, the electric I'd- want working anyways the few meat, of copper wiring the man had stolen. Probably it

I have no more than a few bags of rice a pity He has a younger sister. Somebody said two sisters said another. The man's parents must be dead. Merely he knew nobody with influence to intervene on his behalf. You probably had a poor class background as well? Maybe he was the son of a minor. The shots rang out head chest legs. They had burst open like a water, balloon blood

bird it out over the dirt, almost spilling onto the feet of the crowd. Now, what do people do to stop this? You know when you have rebellion in the world. If people turned against the government in the world. But in North Korea. That did not happen and here's why the level of repression in North Korea was so great that no organised resistance could take root in Anti regime activity would have would have terrible consequences for the protester, his immediate family and all

other known relatives the system that sought to stamp out tainted blood for three generations. The punishment would it then to parents grey parents. Brothers sisters, nieces, nephews and cousins. A lot of people felt if you had to give one life you'd, give it to get rid of. Terrible regime, but here You are not the only one getting punished. Your whole family would go through Hell. So with the fact, that they're going. If you protest, they're gonna kill everybody. So there was no protest.

So now the only thing you can possibly think of doing is escaping. And it goes through the various people in the book and how they escaped, but I thought What was interesting, in fact the most interesting sort of mental transition to make was for MRS Song and again, she was referred to as the true believers and her daughter had escaped and made it actually to South Korea And her daughter arrange to have MRS Song visit China but she visited China sort of against the rules. Thinking that you can go back to North Korea, because I truly believe that North Korea was the better place,

We believe that South Korea was the enemy and it was evil. And so she spends, but she does go to China and she said some tied in China and when he's in China. She stayed in the house that you know her daughter set up further stand and they have tv and they have microwave ovens and they have dishwasher. And they have a rice cooker which which, like miraculous to her. When she talked about it. She saying at a certain I'm the light would come on and it would make a Chirrup, and that means the rice was now being cooked and by the way, at this time? They do have rice in North Korea so there- this thing that just automatically cooks up your rice in the morning, that combination of things that broke her. Because when you first saw that stuff, you sell this imperialistic. You know this is capital evil they're, trying to bias and enslave us with their capitalism. That's what you ve been

convinced her whole life. And then she has the realization that remain closed with their speed After this, it goes through the stories of how they escaped, and what not, this realization this moment in time. Never mind becomes free, then here's, here's how it goes How much they all? How much. They all missed herself, her daughters, locked way in North Korea, working themselves was to death for what. We will do what the party tells US we will die for the general. We have nothing to envy she

he had believed it all then wasted her life or maybe not. Was it really over. She was fifty seven years old, still in good health. This was her wake up call. She was ready to go So I ask what is your wake up call What is enslaving you? What is controlling your thoughts? Is it?

vision, set, feeding your mind, images of what life should be. Is the internet drawing you in and controlling your time. Is it drugs or alcohol numbing, your brain. And diminishing your desires, or is it weakness a lack of discipline, That prevents you from accomplishing what you want to accomplish. And I'm not saying that you have to rub bell, not saying that there are things in life that we just have to do. There are.

But what I am saying is ask questions and don't believe everything that your tone and don't follow the path just because it's there. Don't get in line just because other, people are get up, wake up, and be conscious of what is our weeping and do you mind what's get me there. What are you letting in there?

What is forcing itself in there and what does it wants you to? Do? You have only one life, so don't waste being controlled by someone else. That's one of the things it's with everywhere, like you can easily be controlled by like a big one. Is he to harp on parents but like your parents, so nobody's perfect right? So all your imperfections or a lot of imperfections will be passed on to you, kids. Just because you don't know anything. Like that, MRS Song Lady, she disbelieve, She didn't know any better. So you can have. Passing these things down like certainty,

decisions or you know just me: for all allergies are raising kids. That. You might hear otherwise. But that's your thing. You know that you believed it crept in your mind, because your parents, their parents, you know- and you dont, like easy asked since you don't ask Russia you're, just like hey, that's how I was raised. I sit on Meanwhile, you're doing the wrong thing, the whole time. That's what happens when you don't ask question: that's what happens when you don't ask questions, that's what happens when you believe a forty all the time Yeah and hey this might come across as something worse in their sane. Wait, a second jocker once you in the military for twenty years, your damn right, I was, and there was a day. Finally, I was a rebellious kid in when I was military, I was always questioned everything that we did and why we did it. So and I think that one of the things that help me get too early.

Your position and become a decent leader was the fact that I didn't. Take everyone's word for it and tell as we're ok, No, you know what were actually to change the strategy, we're gonna change, the tactics, what I was taught, isn't working right now, we're gonna, do it differently, yeah, I did that all the time, a broader scale, This is a broader scale. This is life not just in the book but life in general life in general, like what are you doing where are you getting your direction from here? Who is? Whose Hold your steering wheel that make sure it's you. That's got a whole your steering wheel and that one of the things were, it's tough. You got a balance it as well, You know if you're just rolling around Saying hey, nothing's, true until I figure it out is kind of like you know, you gotta consider the opportunity cost where some people you gotta, you know you gotta, consider there

Ability and then you gotta courage, go with it and again. This is just kind of demonstrating there's about there, but just like are using if something, if its not working in, one you with some alternative, don't just be like hey I've done this way. So you know leave me alone type of thing, ass, those questions and listen to chance. I find the little improve method and lend some stuff yeah or you might find out where you been sucked into a trap, you don't wanna, be it now get a free, your mind, you gotta, free or mine. You gotta get out of that box. Out of that cage. Thinking that you I mean people now, And its sole bizarre, because because I've travelled a lot enough enough walked with a lot of different kind of people,

You are from all different walks of life, and I mean people sometimes, and I think to myself. Man disguise pretty awesome. He's got all his own. What dispersants go this and sometimes a last like you or what do you want to do Like what are you a? How meet some kid or would you want to do and some people say you know? Well, I wanna do you. I think there I think they're gonna come out with his giant dream and they come out with like a little mediocre idea. And I want in irons, I'd I'd. I have Done this yet I've talked to if people in the last six months that I We're gonna tell me about their dream. And that I was gonna be like in shock and I gonna be impressed and say yeah, that's wrong,

talking about brother go get it and instead I had a bite. My tongue. Because they were tell me their dream, but it wasn't big enough. It wasn't big enough, It was to realistic you now you meet some people. Sometimes they tell me their dream and I go man. You got a chance that you need. You need tone that, down You need to get a grip right. These people you can achieve. Anything you want. No, actually you achieve anything you want. If you could achieve anything you want. You know everyone be it's not a yard or were doing whatever big bad ass thing that they want to do can deepen the we buy. Can't though, but it's true I mean can't that's what I mean- these get. These people are like you can do whatever you want. No actually either limitations that all people, Are not created equal

People are smarter than other people, some people are better athletes and other people Reality now what Can you hear the question? Isn't that the question What can you do with your wife, What you ve got, what can you do. And I d much rather, I loved People overshooting but dont trap yourself in a box where you are we'll be happy. If I can do this. And there's hope the other part of this is its soul, like North Korea. There's people trapped in a paradigm in their head of the, They think that the world is this. Is this thing that they live in? They think the word does this small. This smell, a place, the p, will that they know and the atmosphere that they live inside and it's real

we really small and I think to myself man you got to get out. And I'd, say you're part of this came when I got out of the military, because my life in the only guys I knew were seals or mean out just who I knew. And so when I got out, I started meeting other people and especially started working with big business and started meeting really just successful in terms of financial people, but people they really done something and I started realizing that there was a whole another level that nodded not a higher level, but there's just another world like this he'll teams- oh well, you know I I did. I did my Superman the Sultan commander, you you do these certain. I did task in a committee You do these things. If that's what you do and its awesome the whole world

other worlds ever tell what am I see your buddies, we're out surfing announces after I've been out for like two I had this exact conversation with them I said: hey man like we would we're out their surface for an hour and for fifty eight minutes, we're talking about the ceilings. Scyldings assailed him systems in the field in there. I said to him in this you'll teams is awesome. Just so, you know, there's other things in the world and its stuff. That I'm saying my mind was in North Korea. My mind was just seal team and And I'll tell you what I'm glad it was the It made my lie very simple and I still Obviously I love the seal teams more than anything, but there or other worlds out there and you can do four things in the world, and so now, when I meet people in different environments, indifferent jobs and in each little.

Each little environment that I took my head into work in different industries all over different. You know manufacture in gas, oil, wooden and financial. And they're all their own little worlds, and sometimes people are trapped. In those words- and I just wanna, say man. Free free. I did see what else is out there. You can like what you intend to do Maybe we're talking about how you guys you s are an example of people who have seen the really really bad parts of the world and the really really good parts of work that he has to have all over there and you live in San Diego, which, as you know, arguably one of that one of the places to live. So you have that expanded view. Meanwhile, some people only go on vacation when they travel, so they have. Although a real positive in really nice view, but it's really narrow. Or other people only lived in badly, so just like people who

grow up in a real negative household. When they go into the world just their begins View of the world is native, like money is just so hard to come by because do when they grew up their parents who come thinking about the Ranten bill, your pile enough and others too, so that's there when they go out, and then then that's how they cannot take on the world map. Others in this kind of a different thing: symptom contacts in subject, but at a friend in in high school and those people. I grew up and quiet smiling in. Why so, Some people straight up have met their whole life having been off of color in as the mainland. The mainland is this fantasy world place with or Disneyland, isn't Hollywood and others too. So I had a friend when my good friends he moved. The main member is just a small teeny tiny. I'm just a small is quite so. I remember one time we're what state was the down it. They cholera what color is hidden to Pueblo he's got so

I'm worried you haven't a conversation later as I can get it. Let's go to LAS Vegas lot of white people, but, alas Vegas and as I could but a LAS Vegas or whatever else. When do do what you do you rent a car use, I wouldn't we're drive in LAS Vegas- oh, never drive in LAS Vegas cause it's too crazy when this freeways in everywhere on quite a while, there is a highway but an he a groan, adult citizens I can't even dry cleaner. So that's like an example. That's how narrow his his whole viewers world his whole world and that extended to his driving school. You know this was just the sole hectic on a freeway, Highway LAS Vegas. Even I don't even know how crazy that it s not increasingly such I really welcome. It's like I'm only arise at every year, so to allay men at the four or five north on a Thursday afternoon

There's no doubt there's so much out there and if you stay comfortable in your world you can get used to you can get comfortable starving in North Korea yeah! That's what the scary thing is. That's the point that I think I'm trying to make is don't become both, because what you think is awesome right now. There could be so much more if you can invasion and pay attention to. What's goin on the rest of the world I gather that paradigm, the Turin and see that you, can fly. You can fly around the world you can do it don't get trapped for your mind,

Let's get to some questions from the entire web is speaking in a webs. If you like, supplements, good supplements, which I think we both recommend right is far supplements go get on it supplements and they and we are sponsored as it so happens by on it, but I would say, get on it supplements in the wake of taking them even before response bonnet on it, dotcom slush Jacko and get ten percent off, get you crude oil supply get your alpha brain you are crude oil in crude oil is anything for your joints is critical because, like when you even even when I was young when you live hard when you get after it working so ok. So if you gain strength rate which. Of course we all can want to do whatever you have to put a what

on the other we dissolved period. Germany does not to speak for everyone, but I think it's safe to assume that yes, we're getting street but when you have a higher capacity for strength, a lot of times your muscles, we'll just wanna fire real heart, so what they can the with. Is this weird stiffness, so you're gonna end like it's like you gotta, it's almost You got a warm up in life. Fourthly, that feeling you know so I guess strong you're about to carry like the whole below groceries in. And you can do that it, maybe you rode a person, I gotta come up same everyday stuff and you you can get after doing that, but you kind of got a warm up in all its can. I couldn't innovate groceries you have been given. In the store out of stock. So any it so and the point being like when you have stuff like for your joint or you don't take out your joints, see I would it This totally differently. I like, if you wanna, Jack, big steal, you

do jujitsu. You want to jump off things you want to throw stuff around, gets krill oilseed stay healthy, groceries. No, but I've. Seen though it's it's, it is eight seems counterproductive, because I've extreme experiences- where am I guess, but then I can't get it like dude- Wist Euro strong. You know that I'm ready for him unlikeness reason it's kind of cold out and then I gotta live like tat. I can live a lot of weight, but why, on this first set, I can't even lift anything you want me to croon anymore. I'm just saying you joints gotta be like good to go bright, absolute, lead you and tell you. If you take it, you take that our heart will guarantee take krill also year anyway, on it are complex, Jackleg, ten percent off you happy you did and if you want to support the spot cast before you shop at Amazon, gotta

by Canada or Jackal stored outcomes, click on Amazon link on the top, and it gives us a percentage and you don't pay nothing on people have in a few people mention that, like the linked work or whatever, and I found out through one of the true pursuer in that. No sometimes you have ad blockers on your browser. And their activity, which is a good thing by the way it's it's good to, sometimes they can metalworking. Yeah, because it's it's an actual code in it works in in the city. Ways, don't others more way to me, I thought the activated. If you wanna get that's. Or if you want to buy some shirts, which occurs

head and or name on it, go to juggle store that come let's go away to represent their is get it first. Question questions. Ok, first question: how do you continued to train judges to win? hurt or injured the same thing with whatever Gonna Indra got in whatever gonna. Do I'm gonna do what I can. You know now What did you do have to do? Is you have to let yourself rest enough that you can hear because somebody- They get the sprained echo is that a lasting one month it lasts eighteen months, no kidding. If you put, if you just won't let a heel. The thing is now gonna he'll? So you have, the let things heels now, but you can go all kinds of. Positions, you can work different transitions, but sometimes you get an injury and if you're Jujitsu person, you know I'm talkin about, like you get a weird injury that you can't do certain movements that guy I'll have hurt

can't get on top. Forgive me on top the kid so its practice, your guard or You have a hurt. You know growing muscle. So you can't hold any guard. You have to work like side control, only ok go escapes I control or be inside control. So you can definitely do that. These things. You figure out what movement you can do you figure. What training partners are gonna? Go psychopathic on you in this house even worse. So that's important you know just been in class and you're learning some new technique you either I find. If, if I can rule one class cross awake, tabled a bit more attention to what the instruction is being given. Could I know I can't roles? I know all I'm getting out of this is warm and learn right here from Jaffee Glover Ordeal List, and so I will be like paying extra special attention here. And then I'll tell you. This is something like I wear me beds when our role and I think that they prevent some injuries.

I just made a transition in my life, where I used to work, for large. We need a heads, thousand Harry reappearing, Nip adds a neoprene breed them reasons like racism in their resting the Pisa Newbury Yale, But I recently like two weeks ago, I went I used to wear extra large in with the large cuz. I felt a little bit stronger and I just got medium and I got some three big legs, but I got medium and they're like really compressing my knees and keeping it all together and I feel really good so maybe just order that exercise down impression and simply

When I've heard elbow I'll, put noble baton, some wrap up whatever you can and just keep training and warm up a little bit yeah. You know I didn't used to. I do now I'll do a line a five minute around, where I'm not trying to kill the person, I'm hoping that the person is not going to try to kill me. Although you and I have little incident the other day, we've got a little excited. Yes, just to clarify that when they need that elbow pads, they're, not not like the kind soccer in another neighbouring through. Yes, you do what you like a near print a six year cliff in wrestling me bats disappear in their generally made neoprene, gotcha yeah, Ethel S love a lot of this. Did the train for anything, that's a big deal. If you choose to train when you're injured, because men I have, I can't sit here and say train when you are injured and I might even say

don't trains learn, like I say if you want to show up goes. Yeah. You know you can't just not show up on the mad them ass, even if you're not really. It's like its that's a good place to be. Let's face it for most of us and you sitting on a class or or just do the instruction part of it. You know: do the movements it doesn't look at full speed rolling. Do the movements that you can't You can pick up up man, in fact, when you, especially in a highly route learning from Dean, Jeff and most instructors here, they're, really good. Even if you learn one little detail You know, I know this card pass. You know he added that one little detail, dang I've been training rallies using I just wanna Wendy. You can always add something. I think that that's that's a big deal show up. In b there you will learn. It's like us talking a great want, I'm on table. He,

He was like we're talking about Hazel. Is someone asked you? How long have you been training the little you treat you started training ten years ago, but then you train for you took off a year and then you went back, but you are only training a little bit unifil. How long have you been? Training really had counted and all that anyway, so he was a kid weeding out too deep into a better user a man if you started ten years ago. You been treasure for ten years, because if you start train a year, even if you take a year off when you see something you hear something you someone's talking about something you're picking all that up. You have the context, you know so your ear, your brain assimilated into your system and even if you're, not training, yup exaggerates, if your injured just keep going. That's a weird thing to do, though, there's a little ego situation if you like. Well, I've been training for thirteen years, meaning I started thirty years ago, but I took it time off, so you might catch me

right well, basically, withdrew said it is tell people like average waitin for thirteen years, not lack any more. You know what, let's how good I am here, if Iraq, yet it could. I think it's come and get it for automatic for the person like like, if you're out, If you ask me How long have you been training its automatic for me to try to justify my skill with my number of hollow. You know, even though the guy asking typically just asking for conversation, he's not twenty evaluate how good you are really what I actually warm seismic bleed to death well you better training for what school, were you different, compete Because I was talking to Keenan about that- and I do it in their countries they'll be like its many hours, so you say it you Jane for ten thousand hours, you do that's how long you been training of users, but when we talk about their own everything made out of you

Same way. Is you, though, that's not true. I definitely retraining and I'll. Tell you what like, if I were set forth, if my back is tight, nothing better for you back legitimate. Yeah. You next also Jujitsu shoulders a little strange ass if she. You think I'd. Rather you we'll kill it younger illegal. Super hard crazy rounds. Not work, be careful I'll. Take the other B, I am not a doctor should have probably of people, listen to me as if I was a doktor there, would be deteriorated, were being questioned visa from time to time. Don't sleep eat meat, trade, injured girl,

that's my attitude next question: how crucial is knowing the personality type introvert extrovert of your colleagues in combat business or choosing in Emma S which occupation yeah? how crucial is to know the personalities of people, it's really crucial knowing in understanding people is critical in every aspect of life and. That being said, the most of. Part of knowing people is knowing that you really can't know people, not a hundred percent in Europe. We'll talk about like personality types in there's these tests. In these these categories of again honesty, I've never been familiar. With that, but the

you can put people in different categories, but for me, when you put recently in a category by themselves. Right. That's me, fifty per cent of the situation, the other fifty percent is the other people that their working life so I want to know not just what type of nowadays they have, because that's all that's the like. I said that half of the equation? The other half is how They interact with other people and other people personalities, how do they handle slack Here's how do they handle overtures? How do they handle allowed mouse? How do they handle submissive people? How do they handle aggress people, those roles from personality trees. I want to know I want to see how people are gonna handle other personalities, and then I want to also know how they're gonna hit while certain situations pressure conflict a forward the responsibility of me. I want to know not just what their person

Bodies, but how they're going to react cause you can get people that are really examples, people that are super aggressive, but they fall under pressure and you get people. Super passive that fold under pressure and vice versa, you get someone that super quite. And humble and under pressure there, just strong, so that's what I want to know. I don't care. What kind of personality do you have mean? I do to an extent button I want to know how we intervene operates with the with the world. The people with the situations that you're gonna face, and how do you do that you do that by observing them, well dealing with other people, mother dealing with. Pressure situations that's just a reality near and you can't you I have an idea. You know I would say that you won't be able to predict it, but you get surprise. Ized, sometimes a bit surprised when a person that you think is all tough and they fold or p person that you think is weak and their straw,

So you will get food sometimes times you're, you're, probably right. Sixty presented I'm seventy percent of the time you're a big one, is also how how they react when stuff goes bad like one doesn't go there where you know and that's a spectrum stupid but and some eat meet someone in or things are going good, your hiring new people, growth or whatever? What every situation? And it's like, Dana's guys, I'm so glad I heard this guy, but when something goes wrong they self destruct or something like that yeah. That's, I think a critical component And so I gave you the other simple answers that there's there's someone different variables. So many different nuance is that what you want to do. Is you wanna know your people? you want to build relationships and your people, so you know them. So you understand them. That's what you want to do.

The r word relationships yeah, that's what you need that are you get to know your people and that's how you leave them correctly. Next question: in regards to subordinate leadership, how do you begin to change the culture slashed school of thought of an industry or come you know, I'm not sure if they mean in regards to how do you change your subordinate leaderships or if you are subordinate, I'm not sure what which one of those it is, but regardless doesn't matter because guess what I'm gonna do, I'm gonna led detriment to do whether on whether on the subordinate guy or the superior guy, I'm gonna lead Oh we're you do. I want to change things, make em a certain way. Call I'm gonna. Do those things I'm gonna make these things happen. That's how you do it.

And if you doing the right things for the right reasons, your message is going to spread. You know him Bad single balloons I was in zero. You know why cause me and my bodies, we always had a good attitude. We always had the right attitude that spread to the other people that were with us now, there's a red flag that you can get free yourself, and this is Frustration. When did you start saying yourself, which not saying this necessarily, but this kind of question is coming from some that wants change to happen, but it's not happening so they're getting frustrated in their think. If they are on board, they don't care, they aren't profession they're, not motivated like me. They don't have a good attitude to there's a lot of blame going on right there, you, so

this isn't about them, though, throw you and it's about leading, from any level in the chain of command. If you leading. If you're doing the right things for the right reasons, that's gonna spread. So and I made the classic example. I talk about all time is, if you're, exercising extreme ownership, If you say you know what I got this, it was a mistake made, it was my fault that spreads If your humble that's read. If you have an open mind that spreads if, being aggressive not again an aggressive towards other people, but if you're being aggressive in pursuit of your goal that spreads, you know what doesn't spread is when you're aggressive at people. No, actually, it does preference negative. You know it

doesn't spread it doesnt spread when you're trying to get people to do things because gonna make you look good that doesn't spread. You can't get people to behave better because you want to look good, it doesn't work people see right through that? Oh he wants to look good. You Norman do sabotage now the other thing I've been saying lately, because people are. Surprised or whatever or not surprised. But they are concerned. They don't see how it's gonna work so fast, and I say what it's not gonna work fast: it's gonna be here's the word. It's gotta be a campaign gotta your campaign. So I, like war too, was not one battle No one was not one battle. It's a campaign to win in Europe is a campaign to win in the Pacific. May takes battle after battle after battle and guess what you don't win them all

you lose some of them and so on this campaign. You're gonna win and you're gonna lose. But you gotta have the persistence and patience. The persuasiveness to continue. In another piece of this is your best, If you go in direct and you like hey, you need to act like me. No, Well. Don't like that. You need to asked how you're acting and if you do it, I guess said the right things for the right reasons: people see you and they going to follow the letter. You begin to change. The school thought year that genuine this like tends to show itself or that like if you're, not genuine,

tends to show itself you just because the dynamics of any nevermind tens do it gently straight shows. So when you doing it for the right reasons like you, you can't help but expose that that will be exposed to hear people saying sign right on then you end up gaining like crises, the campaign gain a little bit of ground. You might win this guy over. Like hey, we that's it. You know, that's what we're doing it or whatever the group is, and you may, a small little steps and you can hold that ground and yet before you know it is guaranteeing the whole culture of this final office or whatever can change just happens to have seen it happen, extortion, Jacko echo? How do you work with people who over think things. The classic over thinker. What does it mean the over? It means they will pick up. This p and right here? Because

look at and say I wonder what waited that pennies and even should pick it up right now, because I am also thinking about saying something and what, if I drop the pan, while I'm trying to say something that makes a noise on the desk, that the flow of my sentence and then the whole flow of my sentences disrupted, which means mice, train of thought, would be disrupted. Now I can't refinish where I was going to sit it's an oversight, So that's what I'm now you can just imagine applying that fought path. To an actual project that you're working on re, not a good scenario or, u turn applied to combat situation, naturally or you're, trying to apply it to a relationship that you're in you start over. Think I see this You might think that right. What do you mean by that? Rather that little by yes, Minister, that's over thinker sacred thinking so much you're over thinking, so here's what

when someone over thinking. I got someone. That's like a chronic over thinker, I'm I'm gonna funnel them into the right mindset, with questions and I'll give you some real easy questions to ask that'll make this happen like hate. What we mean by that warlike, can you explain that again you're getting them to explain it in a similar way or you see, eight so hold onto. What's the actual go, would we try to get done here because they're, putting layers upon layers of complexity on top of things that don't deserve it, so what exactly? Are we trying to do it again here? kind of plain dumb, a little bit and asking questions and then, if you can't get to him, if you can't quite get the simplified, then you say all Ok, so we are trying to do this very simple statement,

So that way they start subconsciously being coached in being taught to simplify things, much as they can in their head. Another thing, I've been saying lately, went about working with. People is I used to not really understand why people drawn to this complexity, but act. You think I understand now and I think it has something to do with the fact that I come up with a plan and its super complex. The two you you don't understand it. Then I must be smarter than you right here right. It came up with something that so genius and so complicated that you don't even understand. If I understand it. I understand that you, but you don't do it right and by the way you know

the only way you're going to understand it. If I, if it's, if I break it down for you cuz, you don't get it. So it's an ego trip and it's completely wrong because the fact of the matter as if I'm trying to get you to do something- and you don't understand it- I'm a loser. I'm failing as a leader, so you you, you got it trying to get people to understand that simplicity beats complexity every single time, And over thinking, things is up failure in ability to simplify so another thing, and this is more a kind of about planning, and this is something I used it talk about in the seal teams, and I called at six percent advantage over the enemy and what this was was. What do you have a target building that you're going off of our going after going to go, take down a target building in the middle of wherever the middle of the desert and you base we come up with when that you're gonna use

standard operating procedures, you're gonna get online or you can at least set up a basin of manoeuvre, elements very simple: two elements: one element in a hold cover in the other ones. Gonna move through the target cover move its amidst simples. It gets that's great. You come of the plan that your plan, and it is you're looking at the imagery or you're. Looking at the map, you notice that there is in our house. Didn't fifty metres away from the house. So now what you do Who is you go? You know what because there's that outhouse there you don't do them to take us another team of our guys, we're gonna break em off from the main assault forspent put em over there and that's what they're gonna be He gazed guys in the outhouse Bolivar. So what you ve done is you ve separated your units, you ve increased. You can

occasion. Brahms. You sacrifice your fields of fire, you disaggregated your fire power, you ve diminished your unity of command. You broke from your standard operating procedures. You ve, given up your real tactical advantage that you have for the chance chance that this guy, at two o clock in the morning. When you hit the target, is in the outhouse and not his home. Is it worth that no Saddam over think it we're heading this target. You know what okey buys on that thing, no big deal, but don't give up your tactical advantage, because over thought the situation go with what you know and. Another piece of that is a lot of times when people get super detailed like that and planning. There are actually planning things planning on things that that can't be known

So why would we make a plan for something that can't be known? I got a better idea instead of making a plan for something that can't be no make a plan that adaptable You want your plan to be adaptable and you're you're the best, daddy body, for instance, on the battlefield that you have the most control over your guys, so that you can move them maneuver them quickly. And how do you do that? By And good unity a command! Now you do that by keeping you guys for the most part together You start spread about all over the place and something changes some an unknown that unexpected happens. Now you got a real everyone backing and try and get them to Change the formation of their assault. It big was very, very complex, so if you set up your plan so that its adaptable changing situations, then you're gonna be good to go,

same thing in business. Do you know what the Markets gonna do know we predictors. Yes, did we know them? No, do you know what you're competitors gonna do know You know what you're consumers you're gonna do know Do we have intelligence? Of course we do. We have metrics. Of course we do, but we don't know things so, keep your plans adaptable. So you can make adjustments when you need to, as opposed to we're thinking things in creating specific branch plans for a possible leave something that might occur in the future. Might not don't over. Thank you, people. You know sometimes people who under think things

Sometimes they tend to say, hey. Why you over think things when you, when you're just normally thinking about like you're thinking of also saw the others. Obviously you have to think about things right and yes, you should be caution of someone, cautious of someone that just caused resale where Europe thinking this right. I had three minutes planning watch out for that guy. We're that's why you have won the word when over thinking them to understand what that means. I feel like you're examples, sound Morocco would you think of great Jackson. Them is famous semi coach criticising John Jones on his recent power lifting and muscle gain

yeah. So if you didn't see the severe in Mme at all, they caught Greg, Action on the MIKE after John Jones recent fight I'm saying you know basically hey, I told you so he's two biggest all that power lifted and I've talked about Gregg Jackson before and and off about respect for growth. Jackson. Not only is he out outstanding, coach and a great tacticians. He saw So just super humble guy who, as built, he called Jim and built up lotta champions his record speaks for itself, someone in a second guess. You don't what he is saying about a fighter that he's work with since day one, and I think really it boils to this sort of definition of perfection. If

This definition of the definition of perfection is when you have nothing more to add and nothing more take away. You ve got Where it needs to be in This way, design. The design of whatever furniture of phones of you anything buildings when you, when you ve got everything that needs to be there and you can't take anything away. That's the that's perfection. They say this about writing to you. Look at some that rights really well. Everything did you look at that sentence? You can't take away a word and you can add a word in that's perfection and I think That is what Gregg Jackson is trying to do with Johnny Boy Jones, get him in that physical. Status where don't want to add anything. You don't wanna, take anything away, so what they may have done according to grow.

Jackson is they may have added a little too much muscle, because. Of course you gotta have some muscle, because it gives you strength its. Exports of this. But at the same time so requires oxygen. And so you can actually two big towards affecting your cardio so I think that's all Gregg Jackson was talking about it. I think that's the balance that Now it's always looking for you know. I want to be big and strong enough, but I want to have insurance. That's what I'm trying to do. You know and I I find that balance by doing both strength, work and insurance work. That's nice endurance, I mean muscular endurance and only in marathon running, I don't run. Marathons met, com, net cons, baby, so that's what I think he's talking about, and you know like I said, respect for Gregg Jackson and I'm sure that he added

he's got a good handle on why you say that you are fully and when you, I do know a little about a little bit about this, were so. If you gain some a bunch of muscle like Overshort bearded period of time, you can have a way harder time dealing with. You know the drawbacks of that Muslim. That is enduring that's the main thing, and at the same time this didn't have much to do with this particular situation. But if you game the real fast. You can lose it yet until the loser real fast. But at the same time you ve Firstly, if you cultivate this, you know, muscular body build whatever overtime legacy started looking at fifteen years old up thirty five years or no, and you ve always been muscular your body we'll have a heart your time holding onto my first stop like lifting for even a year or if you stop leader,

for a long time, and then you get back to lifting ill it'll it'll jump right back up as far as your Moscow, muscular monsieur so in regard see endurance, no matter what bigger muscles require. More oxygen were more fuels what's harder to get that endurance up when you have been muscles just in general, but you're gonna have the until the gain that insurance way more. If you ve had muscle for a long time. So you do. These big jumps in muscle gain men that insurance is going to suffer. It's gonna be really hard to build up that insurance really hard, I'm not saying possible, but it is really time yeah. So that is a dangerous thing that dangerous. But it's it's it's risky thing they do when IRAN and jumped back into the fighting situation, and I'm here

yeah. I got endurance lights up around their own BC or apparently it did there we're maybe one more year, Jacko. You ever feel, like Sisyphus, pushing rock up a hill, only the watch roll back down again and have to do it again. How do you overcome that? Do I ever feel like Sysiphus yeah? Of course I mean

I do and I'll tell you I've thought about this, and I've been waiting for people to start saying, like. Oh, you put another picture of the sweat and of a squat rack really, but I don't know if they understand I've been getting on that squat rack and grinding it out for twenty five years, and I'm not bored with it. Yet It might seem like Datsun on winnable battle, but really to me it's not about winning it's the battle itself,

It's the struggle is the daily task. That's what life's about not just physically but mentally, getting that rock to the top of the mountain. That's not what my goal is My goal actually is pushing the rock because pushing the rock pushes me that makes me tougher it's me harder, mentally and physically It gives me much more than I can it. I want a struggle, I wanna go. Claude Scratch and I'm gonna dig it and I want to push wanted to end

if I ever got the rock the top of the mountain headed to stayed there. I pushed back down myself and I want to rest the one a cold and I want to reach a point in my life, where I say that's it. I've done enough, I'm not gonna give anymore. I'm not going push anymore, no That relentless cycle of day to day challenges they are maddening to me. They know, frustrate me. They inspire me.

Inspire me to drive and push more and a push harder to does to me. So I say gig in and get to push him and I think that's all I've got for tonight. So all you troopers out there they you for joining us thanks for inspiring us thanks. Listening to us listening to the pod cast we're watching the podcast on Youtube. Had somebody hit me up the other day on Twitter and said man? I know you guys run you to be outlawed Youtube got the Youtube Channel

Jacko podcast sure. And thanks for giving us feedback and for spreading the word You want to connect with us on the internet where bizarre, ECHO is add, echoed Charles on Instagram. Echo is at a culture I was on face bookie. What are you Slash ECHO Charles. In all those three on the same I am at Jocker willing. And to everyone out there in uniform Military police, firemen, EMS, thanks for what you ought too and gratitude for your service second, and for keeping us free and safe and if you I support the podcast once again. How can you do

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I have made an effort to get like the quality shirts. Is that why their sole about so much he ass? He in the report, an elephant leaning about you, yeah, I know and here's the thing I can't buy. Five thousand, Because, where am I gonna put right now, you know so we it's a long story, but so yeah sorry, I'm getting them get in and improve on that you better, but their quality shirts there there through solid, do not like the ball. Heart give away. Now the nice short Sea dollars shirts. I would welcome it didn't have my own head or if it is a victory, ever mean fitness item and Israel, but anyway a jackal stored outcome. We can get a coffee Monday, I think I think their chemical and if you want, if you, if you can I liked what what we're talking about here leadership life lessons. We can check out a little book that myself

my brother leaf, Bab and ropes called extreme ownership. You can get it on hard cover. You can get it on Kindle you can get on audio and the audio was read by myself and by life as well. So you can check that out in thanks for supporting that end, Finally, the everybody out there in the world living in freedom take advantage of it take advantage of, freedom and your life by driving hard.

And by pushing that rock up that he'll with everything you ve got and also, and of course, DR hard by getting out there and getting after it