This is the junk or underground podcast number 115 sitting here with echo Charles and last week the topic of betrayal came up and and We talked about betrayal which we kind of discussed the fact that it was a strong word right it's a very strong word usually Wouldn't quite qualify as betrayal even though we might throw the word out there Does happen though? Yeah, and That got me to thinking about Revenge. Mmm Because there's times where we're wronged and we need revenge vengeance Very popular very popular Sentiment that people have that's why there's a lot of movies about it. Yeah death wish yeah, yeah Charles Watson Do ever tell you had a band called Bronson's children?

Yes, you did believe me death wish was all up in the mix have you ever the original? Death Wish is interesting because he kind of doesn't, he like throws up when he gets Killing people, it's a much more kind of nuance. Movie by the time you get to death wish for he just rolled people down. It's all good But it's a revenge film unforgiven Yeah, I did. I mean yeah back in the great movie. Yeah great movie, but it's a revenge movie It's not it turns into a revenge movie Turns into like the last whatever it is 20 minutes. Just maybe 15 minutes the whole movie is Ballway boom is revenge and that's what we're that's what we're there for in the end. Wait, does it? it. Is it always a revenge no like really so something happened then then he wants vengeance kind of thing during the movie Yeah, okay. They kill his friend

It was friend and then he kills them like later in the movie. Yeah, but it's late in the movie Yeah, that's not the plot of the whole movie. It's not like in the beginning of it and now we do vengeance. Yeah - Yeah. Terminal less of you seen terminal list with written by Jack are yeah. Yeah - Yeah, like that no terminus. - That, uh. Chris Pratt's in it. Yeah, please James Reese. Yeah. Yeah, that's just big revenge kind of in a way, right? Oh, hey Killed my family. I'm killing everyone. Yeah, and Get it, right? These movies are cool. We relate to the sentiment of the movie. We feel good about it. Why? That's what we think we would do and here's the bottom line you end up in jail, right? I mean... All those movies you end up in jail. Maybe you get away with it and unforgiven because it's taking place back in the day But death wish eventually you're going to jail

Oh James Reese I Suspend what is it? How do they say suspend disbelief is it you got a Disspend disbelief because in the show He's just like in Coronado, California just killing 20 10 people or whatever Get commanders from the military and then rolling like he's on the run a little bit but you know, there was a man Hunt a while ago. Some Navy guy went on a little bit of a killing spree and they caught him real quick. Look, James Reese, is he more skilled? Yes he is. - Sure, hell yeah. What I'm saying is, you're gonna end up in jail. Which could be worth it. Right somebody does something someone harms your family in an irrevocable way cool. It's on everyone does I get that That's that's a real thing But normally, like normal everyday life, that's not what we're getting, revenge.

For we need to get revenge for lesser crimes or infractions, right? Yeah, it's sort of Like the same thing betrayal did will what is it really you know what I mean? So I think we can Need to think about what we're talking about if you're gonna go full revenge because someone did something irrevocable to your family cool I get it. You want to go full James Reese and just start get your murder on cool generally speaking It's not gonna be a great move for normal life, right? when we're trying to get revenge on a normal sort of info. sort of info. In life might even be significant but but not illegal you know what I mean so there's a bunch of the Elie Wiesel weasel

Holocaust survivor author he wrote the book night. Um, he said the opposite of love is not hate its indifference Which is a very critical thing first person that said that to me was Elgin James hmm The opposite of love isn't hate its indifference Meaning I just don't care Mm-hmm, which is so when you get dumped when you're 15. Mm-hmm You're like I hate her. No, if you really want to go the opposite of love go to indifference. I don't care about you That's where you want to be Marcus Aurelius said the best revenge is to not be like your enemy. It's another good one. And then finally Frank Sinatra

And we'll kind of hold this theme. Mmm the best revenge is massive success. Mmm. This is it's a good call. I Agree with all those ideas like those general concepts The best thing you can do when someone wrongs you is move on forget about them and go win. That's truly the best revenge that you can get Go kick ass If you do that, here's the thing. Let's say you did something that was wrong to me. And then I just went and kicked ass and you and I and I was Massively successful with whatever I was doing and then you saw me six years later You're kind of the same you and I'm this massively successful. That would be the harshest thing I could do to you now if

I was to like you do something against me and so I go and freaking cut the tires of your car and I freaking smash the windows and I piss in your gas tank and like And then I get arrested but I got you you were late for like think of how stupid that is You actually win by the way when I'm in jail now where I have a big fine and you're suing me like you win See when I'm in court and they're like, so you urinated in his gas tank? And I'm like, well. You know what I mean? Yeah, he boy he did this thing to me. It's like you know you were immature you were stupid so Getting caught up in revenge means you get caught up in some kind of envy /jealousy /an- Anger which are all a bunch of emotions that you're wasting that are going to drive you to make bad decisions

Based decisions and they all give you echo trolls think if I'm doing these if I'm angry at you if I'm mad at you if I'm jealous of you all those things give you the upper hand they give you the double They give you the win. The fact that I'm walking around all mad, you won. Why am I gonna allow you to have what is it live in my head rent-free? - Free, you know what I'm saying? Live in my head rent-free, which is what's gonna happen if I can't Forgive you forgive and forget and I know that's a big ask Forgive and forget it's

Actually, here's the good thing. When I forgive it, when you do something wrong to me, you wronged me, you stole my girlfriend, you-- You Just borrowed money from me and some investment thing. You didn't pay me back You like those kind of things this kind of thing we're talking about right? It's not illegal for you to steal my girlfriend It's not if you you know who presented an investment to me and I invested money and then you just didn't pay me back 'cause everything went to shit and that's not illegal. But I'm saying in this case not illegal What else could you do to me that will require Or some type that would make that would fuel me for revenge. That's not illegal. That's not illegal Yeah, the girlfriend thing. Oh you you Oh talking trash me in your bathroom

I told you about I told you about this job offer I told you about this job ham and apply for this job and then you went apply for the job when you got it Mm-hmm. I'm gonna get you back. Yeah not illegal, but It's definitely enough. I mean, it's a life changing situation, especially you got the job that I wanted. You're getting 82,000. $1,000 a year. I thought I could have had that job. Mm-hmm Those kind of things the worst thing I can do is be all caught up in it and let you live in my freaking mental headspace forever The best thing to do is be like hey, I hope that job works out Good for you bro. Good luck. It sincerely mean it. That's the best thing I could do. Well that's a big ask, and I know that people have a hard time with that, but I'm going to tell you right now, it's the best thing. For me and it's the It's gonna sound weird. It's the worst thing for you

It's actually the worst thing for you Because I want to have revenge on you the best revenge I can have on you is that you realize that you're a piece of shit mmm, and then Good person and you screwed me over. That's the best thing. That's the worst thing for you. you. It might take five years, it might take eight years, it might take three years, it might be immediate, I don't know, it might be on your deathbed. But the... Thing that I can do to you is make you realize that you were a piece of shit and what you did yeah and That I was a good person that you did it too. Yeah Yeah, it's kind of strange now. Look if you're a sociopath and you like whatever You didn't apply for the job quick enough. It's my job. Okay, cool Nonetheless even even if it doesn't affect you at all. It's still the best thing because now

I can move on and carry on with the rest of my life. - Yeah. Yeah. - So, here's how you get revenge. And it truly is the best way to get revenge. Forgive and forget and go win big. That's my recommendation. I've always had like kind of these weird questions about revenge, forgiveness actually, more than revenge. Can you forgive someone who isn't sorry? - Yes, you can. - Like, you know the old school, like, oh, you know, I was bullied when I was in high school and they're like, Give them but then the bully guy is still a bully and if I don't I'm not sorry about that like freaking whatever you deserve you're a dork or whatever you can still - Forgive them you think? - Yeah, you can. - Yeah, just like you're a flawed human being kind of thing. - I feel sorry for you man. - It's not your fault kind of a thing.

I'm gonna move on yeah the whole even calling it really forgive them at least move on yeah And that's forgiven was gonna make it easier for you Yeah, and I think just the way if forgiving is too hard for you at least just move on be like, you know What that person's an idiot? I'm moving on. Yeah - Yeah. Of my life I'm moving on. The second one with Nathan James. - Nathan James. - Where, yeah, you know, it's like, hey, people are flawed. You know, and especially with the bullying thing, for example, where it like there were some somewhere along the line, they learn to bully other people in whatever capacity. And they're like flawed. That's not a good quality to have no matter who you are. Like even a bully doesn't necessarily overall look and reflect on himself and be like, you know what, I'm really glad that I'm a bully,

People like no one's really like that and even if they are like that let's say they're a psychopath whatever sociopath is kind of like damn no one want no one wants their kids to be a sociopath. Like that's a bad thing to be no matter how the individual feels about it. A flawed individual so man I gotta kind of forgive in in that way now functionally it's different where if they're causing trouble then yes the trouble has to stop for sure but as far as forgiving someone, that does make sense. Vengeance, I think it would be. the... Wanting revenge, I feel like that's like a, it's kind of a slippery one where, if you're in the head space that you want revenge, Like you're the one with the problem. - Yeah. - So yes, if you're just like, hey, let it go, and then just move forward and try to improve your life, Incidentally, that could be revenge if the other person didn't get their life together. But what if you're like, You know what?

Use that as motivation. I'm gonna get my life together and I'm gonna do well in life But meanwhile, what if that person who bullied you in high school say what if they got their life together too? They're doing just as well. It's kind of like, yeah, if you truly let it go. - That's what I'm saying. - Oh yeah. Yes, and I am not saying it's not it has no bearing on like what you said for sure I'm just saying me trying to understand vengeance In and of itself. Like if I have this massive drive for vengeance, in whatever way, even if I'm like, Take care. On that revenge could be a problem. Because you never, like I said, what if this other person is like, hey. Yeah. - Then you could let it eat you up for the rest of. And it probably would always compare and always look at them and always be that dude Deserve that. Yeah what they did to me. Yeah, exactly. It's gonna eat you up man. Let it go. Yeah. Yeah big day

I'm kind of ironic but here's the other thing that is the look and this isn't if you're a bad person person. Over time you're gonna lose. Yeah. Look it might take a long long time because we have people Made off right Bernie made off. He's a bad person scumbag took 75 years or however old he was before it finally caught up with him Yeah, so yes there are People that can ride that social... So that is a. Excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko underground podcast. So if you want to continue to listen Go to Underground calm and subscribe and we're doing this we're doing this to mitigate our Reliance on external platforms so we are not subject to their control and we are doing this So that we can support the Jocko podcast, which will remain as is, free for all, as long as we can keep it that way.

But we are doing this so we don't have to be under the control of sponsors and we're doing It so we can give you more control, more interaction, more direction. Connections, better communications with us. And to do that, we're building a website right now where we'll be able to utilize to strengthen. This legion of troopers that are in the game with us. So thank you. It's jocko underground calm it cost eight dollars 18 cents a month and if you can't afford to support us We can still support you just email assistance at jocko underground calm and we'll get you taken care of until then We will see you mobilized underground