This is the darker underground podcast number, fifty to sydney with echo charles e c in the house. I was out at gettysburg, prudently the echelon front battlefield doing about from work When I go, I went on this little kind of like tangent, not a tangent, maybe sure we know what what do you see me do this kind of thing was going off about something you digressed a little bit, but it's not an aggression. It's not a digression like what is the russians. Bad right digression leads us nowhere. It's as positive! Well not necessarily, I think, technically digression just means like you're, going in one direction with a whatever and then you would aggression different, differing we're, not moving in a good direction, though go, but I digress then I to get back to the let's leave my initial direction but sure so I diverted my comment.

is it anyways? We were talking about terrain. You know you're out on the battlefield you can see like high ground low ground or how important it is and impactful is, and then I kind of went on this explaining that people are terrain, because there's some real similarities between people and terrain, because you ie, if you you're, good battlefield leader. You can look the terrain and you can figure out how best to use it and how its views it to your advantage. and how it can help you win the battle there. We also you can't look at a hill on on the map or on the ground and be like hey. I don't really like the way this hill is. I'm gonna move the hill. You can't do that to you have to utilise the terrain, so people are alike to rein in that they got. some advantages to him. You know this guy's really really cheap smart at math cool, where I'm going to put an accounting department right. You know This person's really enjoys conversational people, where put him sailed, partly right, so so

I have terrain and people our terrain and you can't look look. Can you change them a little bit overtime, sure but they're, not gonna change hundred percent. Do you can you can make some small they're, not gonna change, you're, lucky to get someone to changing a fifteen twenty percent? They can change important important difference. Vacant chair age. So if you echo charles, like the classic case Let's say you hit rock bottom. If you hit rock bottom, you can change. You can do it. Overtaken drugs. Again, I'm never did whatever. Whenever made you hit rock bottom, your gambling your drink. Whatever thing was, you can change, but I can't change or very difficult music Let's say you are a micro manager I can move you a little bit. I came back get you to micromanage less but unless you say you know what man I'm a micro manager- and I know it's not good- I'm gonna change- then that's differ

We can make some real progress. That's why one of the key factor! of what I try and do when I work with people is not me impose the true fond of them, but show them what they're doing so. ego. You know what I feel like. I'm micro manage my team and I you know that probably probably feels like that to them you we, so it gets see it themselves. Then they want to change. So what I I ended up talking it. I've been talking about this quite a bit. Lately is understanding what tendencies people have right. So that's what we have. we have to read? The train of our people is person to micromanager. Is this person obsessed with details? Does this person not care about details- because if I'm like gotta critical a part of a project that relies on excruciating detail. I'm not putting echo charles in charge of that project, rightly says: not, you think she's, not your detailed think. If I something that's going to require creative solution, then maybe I'm like hey

I would echo on this thinkers. He's gonna have to see the vision and cream. something that that people will feel. Ok, that's an echo charles there, so I've gotta, know and understand what you're tendency is. Are you two emotional. And if you're too emotional I've got I've got not only assign you in the positions where, those emotions We'll be mitigated, but of all I gotta think oh we're about it, Echo is about to get some bad news about the project I need to go down there and make sure that he stays under control. you're too analytical right where you walking around like a robot and The sums gone wrong with the team and they're all upset you desire. The problem is: let's move forward, you know, and then you lose in connection with your team and that's a problem, maybe to aggressive, maybe your aggressive enough, so we through all these different traits, but what

point for me as a leader is just like. I read the train on out on the battlefield: hey. Here's some high ground Up some low ground, here's a ravine. I can utilise this four dead space as we approach the target, all those things that I'm gonna study about the train. I have to try and understand that about my people too. So that That's right! You understand, you tracking, feel not you what you write down over their commentaries, nothing new. you kind of covered it, though, bit after wrote, rotterdam Are you in a name all these traits rain? And then you like? Ok, you don't think of it in seems like I hate that they're like that in vain need to change or whatever it's like you that a kind of work around it or over it or even utilizing, really ass in allowing so, if literally someone's are like a big like stubborn rights, like stubborn the wrong way to think about it. This is the initial thought that debt, when you're talking ahead or whatever

where, if their stubborn, like it so frustrating when someone stubborn data want to budge on something, but it doesn't have to, be frustrating if you look at it in terms of a it's just, it's like a mountain. It's like you're trying to do sign in or something the mountains isn't the way. It's like you're, getting frustrated that there's a mountain there. Probably that doesn't help you at all, or you gotta focus on what you should do. You know how to maneuver kind of thing, so two things on that the the famous operation in vietnam, the seals did where they scale the cliff to get to the target not the enemy, never thought that anyone would ever scale the script sorts accessible. Exactly what you're saying hey here's, this cliff! It see impassable, guess what we're going to utilise it yet someone! That's really stubborn! Oh you have a project that you know it's gonna, take a hard nosed to get through this project can get everything done. Maybe that's the person you assign and I'll tell you another thing, that's interesting with your kids. You know- and you think, all my kids

stubborn. Ok, what is what? How is that? A positive quality, because is a positive quality? Can you know you could stubborn, you can also use a different were determined. Those are almost the same words right over almost the same words, hey bore gave up keeps go. One won't want compromise on this, that's determination. So how do we, as apparent as leader, fine best way to utilise as the human terrain and put people in a position where going gonna be successful and they're gonna help the mission? So that's per one part two. Straight out a sun sue? you gotta understand your own tendencies. You I understand your own terrain. You gotta know what you lord, who you are in life and as a leader you gonna. recognize when you're Sixteen years old that you

fall for girls too quick, you go head over heels right, or you fall for guys to work you gotta to that Kosovo. I get this feeling, and I feel like I'm way control, and I feel like I'm way too in the game and supportive and on board with this part with with people I get around. You get hyped on it, so you got it. You gotta calculate that. Are you too quick to? jugglers. Are you two trusting that's big what you just try ale that sounds good right. You're can be too trusting. You gotta know that this is really. you can start to recognise these things like. I wish somebody would have said this to me when I was fifteen cause. You could start recognizing this stuff when you're fifteen. Are you trusting. Are you not trusting enough or you want? I'm paranoid and everyone of you always freaking out like you're like I'm going, but I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to compromise, so you can end up. There

are you risk averse are or are you reckless yon? I'm kind break in these things into a dichotomy like your either or and some stuff, you're cool sums up your view. we are well balance, which is great, so you know you well balanced, and you know that pretty good at assessing risk and that's a good thing to be ok cool, so you can check that went off. You have to worry about it too much and in italy. when it goes from life in england, there's a whole bunch of other things. We could talk about. You know you are you less with your money, you or are you to forego through my some people, so big were so frugal with their money there they die with. You know all this money in the bank and you know it the say the old saying goes, can't take a with you right. Why didn't you go to the go to, you know, go and surf for a weekend were didn't want to spend that gas money. So Figure out what your own tendency is, what your own terrain is insane.

With leadership perspective. Are you a microwave. Do tend to be a micromanaging. Do you tend to be assessing the details. Do you tend to get emotional, do you tend to get too aggressive and, and Then what you have to do is you have to take those tendencies that you have and you have to put them into the you list of your decision making. You have two, you have put that denominator in there somewhere on your formula to say yeah. I know I'm super hyped about this girl, but I So no that I get super hyped about girls. So before I make this step, I need to put that in the calculus. And here's the thing with all this you're. Only gonna be able to see it if you are able to detach you. we're going to be able to guys that are

super and then the lackey bumping up guys are super hyped on girls. Why cause in the teams? Bro you Like you know the guy. He meets the girl, you know, and it's just game on. I mean he's losing his mind, he's just going crazy about this girl. And you know you see did happen with girls to those girls. That would I go for law was that was the movie Full on, like they're, just twenty seven, no, no, the girl, it tries to murder the guy, the oh frequent, fatal or fatal attraction right? There's that too, you know so you can get. All of these things happening is. So these what we want to watch out for you can't see that we Europe, when you are in that zone. You, don't you don't see you dont seated on people that lose their time seldom recognize. While they definitely recognize your wallet happening. Sometimes thereafter are managed asthma dumper non

when a jail again, four points in someone up. You know So we have to take a step back in orders The terrain you gotta take a step back, so you can see it you get when you stand in front of it disputes dirt, you have to give if away from it that you can actually make out the terrain features. So that's me. recommendation start to pay attention to the people around you. What does that terrain? Read that terrain learn to read that terrain and then take a look at yourself. you're out your own trade where you at don't let it get you jammed up and it tens were- and I'm kind of thinking of it, because terrain can also help you so we don't personnel, know this or we don't just totally thinking of myself. It feels like I don't for almost, I won't notice this idea if its terrain,

or a person like that is conducive to whatever right. So it's like you know, you know, and you hang around with your circle of friends and they typically have the same interests as you. So it's like there's no con contention, but when you're working there kind of is so that out in gonna, seems like it kind of is in my way as opposed to when you're with your friends. It's like. Oh man, we could just jump in this river on our boat and be wait and get downstream way quicker than you know. So it's work for you and you don't like necessarily to do any work too. To or whatever, but you guys you who, in late at the muster, for example, you guys use a couple. A good examples of this were in when you guys do the roleplaying, whose again with Ike. I know what it would have the nationals aren't it's the one where you go and arnold has a big ego, there's a lot of experience and he's hard headed all this stuff. So, you play on his ego near you. No words like hey your team are over

you know my team How can it be done for this thing? This new change in this new method, beer, one system J right what were new players eager arnold says, there's no way. My team was gonna, go with this new procedure and I guess YAP Arnold. Those guys look up to you. So it is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the jackal underground podcasts. If you continue to listen, go to, go underground dot com and subscribe, and we're doing this, we're doing this to mitigate reliance on external platforms, so we are not so jack to their control- and we are doing this so we can support the jocko podcast, which will remain as is free for all. As long as we can keep it that way, but But we are doing this, so we don't have to be under the control of sponsors, edward,

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