This is the jocko underground podcast number 122 sitting here with echo charles Have you ever heard of the idea the concept? of taking ownership, maybe taking extreme ownership. Sure. Yeah. So I'm at an. Event the other day and I just get done talking, I walk off the stage at this event where I had just concluded and a one-hour presentation talking about the laws of combat leadership and Closing with the concept of extreme ownership, how important it was, where it came from, why it was important. What happens when you don't have that attitude? What happens when you do have that attitude? So I go through the whole thing. All of it, I get done. And I get off stage and it's talking to some people and Maybe the second or third person that comes to me when a woman comes up to me

and she says Do you get asked a lot of questions about this new generation? This new generation This has become an all-encompassing term for both for for three groups I don't know if you're tracking on these three groups. Millennials, Gen Z, and you know what the current is? - Yeah, what? Oh, no, I don't Jen alpha so Jen alpha is the is the group right now so these but people will kind of lump all them together, just like anyone that's not in one of those three groups gets called a boomer, right? So you're familiar with that term, right? - Yeah, boomer. - Boomer officially would be a baby boomer, but right now it's just anybody that's like older than you is a boomer. - Yeah, so even-- - Are you tracking that?

Haven't heard that but I know the okay boomer thing. That's like a thing like oh, you're right. Yeah Yeah, exactly. So my kids will call me a boomer even though I'm Technically and really very technically I'm Gen X 100% I'm right in the middle of the Gen X Zone. Yeah, I'm not. Oh, maybe Gen X turn. No, no, no But my kids will you know, they'll be like, oh boomer. Okay boomer. So The same way that anyone that's older gets called boomer, sometimes boomers call anyone that's younger. Bye. Millennial or or Gen Z I haven't heard any of the boomers say Jen alpha yet But guts because they don't know because they're boomers - Yeah.

So this woman asked me she's like do you get asked a lot of questions about you know this new generation? You know the and I said, oh, what do you mean she goes well, you know They don't like to work as hard and they want to question everything and if they don't like a job they'll just leave and they don't stay in a particular place for very long and they have this whole idea of Of work-life balance and and they like remote work and they don't want to come into the office. So is this whole Litany of accusations all about they They, they, they. And so I'm sitting there and I'm kinda smiling and nodding my head. You know, almost as an affirmation. I'm giving her the indication that I'm sort of like nodding my head, oh yeah, oh gosh, yeah they don't like to work as hard, yeah they don't. A comedy office yeah they're concerned about i'm kind of nodding my head not in an extreme way but

Basically continue she's getting encouraged by my reaction. Mmm, and then she's to get asked a lot of questions about that And I said, oh, yeah, I get asked that question all the time. Mmm. And I look at her I said hey Remember the thing that I was just talking about three minutes ago? concept that the whole name of the event that we're at by the way is called this extreme ownership event it wasn't one of my events was another company running an event based around the Principle of extreme ownership I said so the name of the event extreme and then the last 15 when I was up there and I told a bunch of different applications and shortfalls and how to properly. Will you take ownership? Remember that? And she said, yeah. And I said, well, how does that sound have that attitude. And now I come down here and say they are the problem.

New generation is the problem. Is that, does that sound, does that mesh with what? I just got done saying, if I got up there and said, Hey, when you have a problem, you need to take ownership of the problem and get the problem solved, and now I come down here and say, Yeah, there's something wrong with that generation. I can't work with them. Is that, does that sound like that even comes-- Remotely close to being in the same lane. And she just kinda nodded her head, yeah okay. Understand so I said listen, it's not their problem. It's a leadership problem Like all problems are leadership problems. And then of course, I went down the whole road, 'cause this is a question I've answered over and over. Again because people have this question over and over again and by the way sometimes it is what do you do with all these boomers that think they know everything I get that question it's all the same it's all the same who What do I do with my peers that they graduated from college and now they... Everyone's got these questions about them. They. They. They.

One of the things that I bring up is the Vietnam War. You have an unpopular war. You have draftees. Conscripted into the military into a job that they don't want to do. In a war that they don't believe in thousands of miles away from their home No correlation to their future and all of that is doing a job that might get them killed. You can find plenty of military leaders that will blame all the problems of Vietnam War. We have these draftees that weren't dead. Yep, you can find those leaders. Or you can find guys like Hackworth. Guys like Mukayama you can find guys like Hal Moore that had draftees and love their draftees. Why is that? Because they're draftees. These would push back if they didn't agree with something and they actually had to lead their draftees.

Leaders blamed the draftees. Good leaders stepped up and led. It's the same thing here, but that's why I'm talking about that The reason I'm talking about that Is because I'm not doing a good job. I clearly didn't do a good job with that woman of conveying to her that this idea Applies to you and it applies to everything that you do. It's such a obvious example. This is a warning it's a warning because I I know there's a bunch of people listening right now that are thinking, oh yeah, clearly this woman, she doesn't understand extreme ownership yet, clearly. But the idea of extreme ownership is so counterintuitive that you have to truly pay attention. attention.

If you don't truly pay attention, if you don't aim the idea of extreme ownership at yourself and you don't put a filter. Over your mouth. You should have a filter over your mouth and one of the words that should get at least At least held up a little bit to run a reconfirmation check on is the word they because minute you say they you're you're you're talking about someone else you're not talking about yourself anymore so when you say they do Want to come to work the filter should catch that and say hold on run a re-screen on that that. I'm doing a bad job of explaining why it's important to come into the office of work. That's the 180 difference. Careful if you don't run a filter on your mouth and run a filter on your mind the whole concept

Of extreme ownership will have very limited value, very limited value. So be careful. Aim the concept of extreme ownership at yourself. So that's what I got. - Yeah, I know this. Friend that he was she was we're talking about social media and these young kids nowadays right and they're on social media them yep they are yeah and so this so my friend and was like, oh, you know, so we're kind of the subject of how much, how many issues come from social media and kids using it, right? You know, and then it's like, okay. So the idea of hey, why why you know, like why are they on social media then right like this person's specific kids and She was like, oh no, that's that's

how kind of dismissive but that's how kids are communicating nowadays. Well yeah, if you let them make that decision. Saying oh hey why are you feeding your kids oreo cookies for breakfast every morning because well That's what they're eating nowadays. Well yeah, if you let them make that decision, yes, they're kids. - What you got in the cupboard, bro. - Yeah, exactly right. So, which... Kind of reminds me of like yeah that whole thing where it's like yeah, they are acting this way or whatever wool. Yeah But why though? Yeah, and They are acting that way and it's on them. What can you do about it? Not much But if you're allowing that behavior, you're the one that can adjust it. Yeah, so you if you need If you don't take any ownership of it and you go, that's just the way the kids are. Okay, well that's what the kids are gonna do. If you say, oh, how much influence do I have over these kids? Have very much influence. Oh, why is that? Oh, it's 'cause I don't have a good relationship with him. Why don't I have a good relationship with him?

I don't spend any time with them or it's because I oh I don't allow them to influence me So therefore I can't influence them. Okay, so I need to allow them to influence me more and then they will be Influenced by me. Oh, well, they're not listening to me. Oh, how can I get them to listen to me? Oh, I need to listen more. So it's okay. It's just it all works. Yeah Works if it works You know when you teach jujitsu and you get to the point where you someone's mounted and and you say okay now

You trap their leg and you roll them over and now you're in their guard and it's this whole thing. You go, oh. - Yeah. - That's how it is when you say, oh, well, how's your relationship? Well, they don't listen to me. Oh, why don't they listen to you? Oh, it's 'cause you don't listen to them. If you pull that thread, it will connect back together to the fundamental principles that we talk about all the time and you'll be able to solve these problems. - Yeah. Yeah, I found that to be the case. But if you just cut the thread at It's them Won't solve any problems. Yeah, and especially the it and obviously doubt this is more like conceptually even though I'm sure this is absolutely true down on the streets, but you know Anytime you're dealing with older generation frowning upon a younger generation It's like right you got to show them how then if they're doing it wrong show them What's right show them the right way to do it then you know and then?

And at the same time, if you apply what you're saying, and even the idea of building the relationship, I think that, and I know you say it, and I'm not saying you, but I still think it feels a little bit underrated. - Yeah, it's underrated. - To me, that's like... That is one of the catalysts for the, that's like the biggest, if you can just do that. Like other stuff you can sort of just figure out on your own in a lot of ways. Not, it's not perfect, but that. Will solve so many of your problems rather than hey do this you should be able to do this already. You should be acting this way. - Wait, already? - Interesting idea of setting an example. 'Cause you could be, let's say you're a parent. And you have this job, and you work really hard, but you don't really like it. in Your kid is starting to listen to rock and roll music and not work.

Doesn't want to go to college and wants to do something else and you say well, why don't you go to college? You need to get an education so you can get a job like me and they're looking at you and dude you're not happy you're miserable Yeah, why don't I want to be like you? You know, so what? You should do is when you when your kid goes all I think I'm I don't want to do what you do okay well what do you want to do well or why don't you want Well it doesn't seem like you're really that happy. Oh. Okay. Well. You're- That's a good point. Now, do you have a plan? 'Cause you're gonna need money. So now we can start having, instead of saying, you don't know what it's like! - Right. - No. Pay attention to the example that you're setting. If you're setting an example of being miserable, of course your kids gonna look at you and say hey I'm not really gonna follow nose footprints if you're sending an example of so that is a

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