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The Debrief w/ Jocko and Dave Berke #19: Winning An Argument May Create A Bigger Problem

2021-08-12 | 🔗

Winning an argument about who's plan is better does not guarantee the best plan to be implemented.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This is the Jackal Debrief Park, Ass episode, nineteen! Would they Burke and me Jack a willing? What are you doing here where it were were debriefing Leadership. scenarios that we have with our clients at echelon front were deeply. Scenarios are we talk about on extreme ownership academy. Then we. Try and share. We want people to learn, we dont, we don't look, I hope weak. I hope we don't have a business in three years. I'll bet oh yeah. We know all this now. I hope that's where we're going up hope that these. This information just gets disseminated in people grab. It may pass it on the understanding fluidly in a short period of time, and they just they just transform their lives and businesses so that we can go out of business. That's what I hope for
My hope is not too strong. I'm not worried about our future to business That's it we're doing here. So this is us, debriefing, various topics that we had to contend with for our company echelon front so but debrief what you got winning an argument that your plan is better. in someone else's doesn't doesn't I should go. Don that the best plan is gonna, get implemented and In fact, winning that argument might mean you created a bigger problem so this comes from a client working with their there in the Tec space and they ve got me Tal teams inside this come. It's got a small company, but they got different teams that focus on different things, and then these team leads all kind of meat in our region. Basis to discuss and they kind of debate what they should be working on. So you have someone that, as a timely, works on, like the user interface and that's a huge problem for them and
the resources assigned to improve that you have another team, there may be works on the code of the of the product in the background, a team that focuses on the marketing of the sales, and this is different teams and they get together and they discuss what We be what should be the focus on, but does turn overlap. It's a small company that raw smart folk. So you don't ask One task where you just work on this: you, you can interact with other other people on the team that you ve. Kind of this focus and the leader of one of these teams who been working with discussing how the hat he's, having a hard time lately convincing that the other team leaders in this this group meeting is convincing them that what they should working on his what he thinks they should be working on and so there's cutting this growing friction. Across the team leads inside this company in these meetings, are starting to become more contentious, this cooperative, theirs agreement- and there is growing frustration and there is more conflict. So we got these these teams
and each one of them is. Striving to be the Oh, yes, yes of the company here, what we're working you might should be the focus of the additional resources or how we prioritize. What's getting done now, that doesn't mean that you on the code team will have nothing to do with you. You might even be helping working on this case against us team, so there's turnip overlap, but Almanecks advocate from my teams, priority and the like three or four different team leads examined see here and they have they have a bunch of subordinate folks, tat are or that are working as well, but the converse Are we in a relatively small group and its their becoming more contentious and pushing back morn you're advocating for your Timor, and it actually reminded me when I was a target, the time that I spent on this. after one we're instructors- and we all have
individual aside areas that we call them in Smee areas which require the term Smee. Subject matter experts, so I was given a m, a particular subjects the extra that I individually responsible for and all doctors had their own area that was theirs, but We are also all instructors, so we would all teach this we were all do different types of missions. I didn't just focus on that, but when it came to discussing. Privatisation for those smear areas. I was the I guess you see the advocate for that at that area, because that was my expertise. I in theory had more expertise. Anybody else cause. I focus more on that and you don't So much time dealing at so many resources, all the areas are important. There is no one area, that's not important, but we might need to decide what we should be working on, what we should be applying those resources too and what I learned at top gun undertook rail and water figure. This out what I came to. cover figure this out right away, but the
that would go in and how these meetings and they had a group inside the staff for the top most as a topic not by sea, nor this, the ten most senior instructors, what kind of have these staff things and they were the ones that we're doing most of the talking, and the junior doctors without a kind of observing, listen and they can contribute if they want to tune there. There are there to support but In these meetings there, where people that had a really loud voice and sugar. go in and I gotta have their their story. Now there towards their idea there in their approach to this particular problem, and so- doctors are going to maybe literally the loudest voice. No, they would talk the most. They would be the most forceful they would sort of advocate the hardest and at first If you're gonna walk in the very first meeting, you see these people talk and it's it's what of compelling like that articulate their well spoken the forceful and they there's a little bit of an appeal to it, but
What I came to discover was the more An individual instructor talked the louder, they were the more fearful they were. the less they were light, the less. They actually word, though the less people would lose into them and so for time I discovered like that for me but I had boy- was I say that was also all that stuff and I would learn that there sort of their emotional every meeting they come into a kind of palm their fists and the desk. This is how it That's. What we're doing here is why here's all things were doing And what I would see is more meetings I a. I found that less appealing and amazingly everybody else And so the loudest most forceful instructors that were advocating the most Russia used. the least effective They were the least effective in getting their point across an they release effective in getting the outcome that they wanted Ass podcast, I was
I was giving some story and I we were gonna roleplaying example me pushing back and end you beauty. I think you said I pushed back or something all his eyes used. The phrase that close minded it shows that the Euro, you don't have an open mind and isn't because. the lower you are, the more you talk, the more you revealed to the other people on the staff that you do not have an open mind about their opinion. Our priorities, their projects or whether working on so I talk to him about Kate This idea that you're going into a room it and what they want. Is they wonder when you get in a room? They want the best idea to come out. That's all they want which which pour it which makes sense. Of course, I want the best ideas of be on a team were the best idea, becomes that the plan or becomes the actual thing that we're going to do. But here's the thing about the best idea. I dont know what the best ideas I dont know, if I d actually is the best idea. So the two I think we're the biggest take away from this conversation is:
start to see that them ass time went on, he was becoming less influential, people were listened to him less, and we talked about how you talk about last time, we're we're recording and we talk about all the time is. If I If I want to influence you if I want you to listen to me, I have to listen to you and I had to let you in force I might have to go with your plants, I might have to listen to your ideas and go with them in this. Discussion we have about trust, respect in housing and listening and the most important thing I can do to all those things is key my ego and check and trust you and listen to you. Influence you so right away. This idea that if people are listened to me less, if, unless influential forcing as you think about what am I am, I communities meetings am I talking the most? Am I the loudest and my advocating for myself the most, but this
idea to that's correct. That is, like I'm gonna go in there and I know my ideas, the best idea, and I need a convinced. I need you to see them ideas, the best idea and again nothing you ve said is that when you and I get an argument about what we should do, where are we The problem is how we should approach this particular issue. You and I arguing about the unknown were arguing about. The future. Where are you? something we actually dont know what will happen and even the best plan, these plans are. The best plan is do not a perfectly and it still gonna run into problems and when plans run up against friction and problems are many people other than me people on this team to be solving those problems, and so what I want for them. I want them invested in the plan, so the best and if I go, I think the way I described this the best plan, if our
Finally, the best plan is the best plan. Is their plan is there plant whatever their plant is and if job both go in there, How goes got an idea about how we want to do it, and I have an idea how I want to do it. We could try to pick it apart, like every detail, then try to come up with some numerical factor of your plan is an eighty seven miles and eighty now you know what minds, but Let's do my plan or I could actually not do that. I could go with you. I could listen your ideas more. I could let you tell what you gonna do, support you more and not does it give me more influence over you four times, I'm listening more you're willing, more willingness me when plans implemented which are running in those problems, all that should all that resistance, that's happening is were arguing, it's not there. So when we run into the problems that will that we will find We single plan. The best plan is not the best plan. The best plan is actually on almost every case. Whoever did their plan.
yeah, there's pollyanna discussion. Can I shape that. Do I want to influence had to. I want to help course credible. Yes, in the best way to do that is to have You trust me want to listen to me so the more look at those meetings. The more you talk, the more you profess. The more you advocate. Exactly what he seeing as what's going to happen there. Listening less things are pushed back more than And start a risk different teams in your start, to resist more than a builder silos and in the end, who's gonna lose the company the the halting the organization is going to lose the out. What a lot of that is boils down to is leadership capital right every time you open your mouth, your expanding leadership, capital, then the time when you say, hey, Dave your plans. Beleaguered all support you then I just gain leadership capital, so you got person at top gun, that's Rowan into every thing, with an open cheque book just throwing throw in freakin dino his
the card down on the bar and saint, drink up. Everybody he's just expanding leadership, dapple all day long and eventually he's in there. People know that his credit card is even worse than having to have anything left in his bank account. So now he has a legitimate idea, that is truly impact, fall to the organization. he doesn't have any freedom leadership capital to get it done we, nickel and dime ourselves to death. We spend this. We spend that you know you're, damn right They said we should only debrief for an hour. I set an hour and a half now we're doing our two half debriefed yeah. You spend it all this leadership capital do an extra half an hour debrief. Does it really gonna change? The world knows not, but there's something in. Gordon. That could happen, and you won't be there I got asked this question the other day.
I'll talk to accompany a client in the question was something along the lines of, and this was a I really liked this something along the lines of, but hey Jacko. Sometimes don't you have to advocate for yourself. This is the big fear right. The big fear in life is, if I dont advocate for myself, then I'm gonna get trampled now out of the game. I can tell you, for all practical reasons or for all practical occasions, know that their good luck, do identify a time when you have to add Gabriel. In your view, and I sat down and said: ok, let's review let's talk, was discussed this and find out at figure at a time when you have to advocate for yourself. I'm sure We could come up with something I'm sure we could create
situation in great their correct variables, where you have to advocate for yourself I haven't been I've been thinking about it for to examine. It will come up the point, but I'm sure we could we could have should Azeri. We got advocate do, you sometimes have to advocate for your team yeah, you do sometimes have to advocate for your team. I get that here's the deal the best way to advocate for your team, and the best way to advocate for yourself is to advocate for the mission and the team as a whole. Just your team, but halting the best way to advocate for yourself and your team is by advocating for the whole mission the whole team. And by the way the time you want to talk about expanding leadership. Capital everytime, you advocate for yourself you it's, the it's. The If the grossest expenditure of leadership capital, you can give people, never I report. I didn't recognize us. They think that
a no one noticed. They think that people, while he I understand, he's gonna, do that. No, no one thinks hey. You know I understand what Dave's company he really needs to look out for himself right now. I've never felt that about Eddie what that averred advocated from us for themselves. Never. I never think that I think days out of days lookin out for Dave just like that. I think, and his leadership capital goes down and now what is it something legitimate to the team, I'm trying to figure out the angle that is working to take out to look out for good deal Dave so once again, we we can sit here and we can. We can think about arguing now, here's what beautiful here's why you don't have to advocate for yourself. Dont have to advocate for yourself. Well, let me rephrase it hears why you dont have to advocate for yourself a ninety nine point: nine percent of situations.
If you are in the point, one percent human it is your goal is to take care of yourself. It's gonna seem like you need to advocate for yourself. And you're gonna fail because of it You're gonna do but check this out. if I am advocating for the team, and I am advocating for the mission and we accomplish the mission and the team does well what happens to me? What happens to me my team awaiting just did well, oh, the entire team did well and mighty. as part of the entire team, and that means my team did well and guess what my boss, thanks, hey Jocosely, did a good job supporting the overall mission we won wow seems like he's a good leader. Maybe I should promote him, so it's it's as sad as it sounds. It is self, you all helping yourself when you look out for everybody else
I guess that didn't I should say sad, it's. That is actually the beautiful thing right. It's a beautiful thing. that if you go and you look out for the team, are you got the mission accomplished? You will get taken care of you dont need advocate for yourself Advocate, for that Advocate for the mission you're gonna win, but sit there and you think. Well, I don't know I better look out for me. everybody's going to see it. It's not going to help the team, it's not going to help the mission and ultimately It is not going to help you. so, if you want to advocate, if you want to call advocate for yourself the best possible way you can advocate for yourself is by can out for your team and looking out for the mission. That's what you should do. goes to these situations where hey Dave's, gotta division and I've got a division. There and say what are we to get as much as I can David seems like you gotta project s way more important than project are more. How can I support you
Advocating for you so be careful that I cannot answer yes would he got similar? This is, I think we don't always explicitly talk about it, but we know that as a component of humility and eagle, underneath everything we're talking and was every situation you can dig in fine, ok, there's with the ego is, is contributing to the school. You like. I gotta, advocate for myself right took a similar situation. Only this was so there's a finance company they have branches of the country branch managers, and they therein and so these branch manders work for directors like a director would have like seven branches and there's a secular branch manager that we as part of a larger projects working on and on
sort of advertises himself as a a person? That's very direct by nature. Convicts me: hey, I'm just a direct personal oil and a camera debate. way to get to communicate to get to the point he got recently in in a conversation got cute out by his boss in full, other branch managers which obviously good. So I don't know that. behind that is person sort of routinely a a gonna jus out in public policy, something we we drag them gives back a negative feedback. You know one of you that in public, as is often is nobody you get what you're subordinate brother other payment. If its direct to the point, the tell the truth, and there is growing friction between this branch manager and his director and the Congress. she was an you pray, We know where this is going is how do we get to the anti without wasting time and the court?
hey. How do I get to the end without wasting time and what was added to that was I'm not afraid of my boss, so again we were kind of dealing with with some of the sub same subjects but the the the Eagle component of that I think was- was stronger witches thinking about. direct approach from the other person's perspective k? I am on the direct person Somebody direct Pachacama needs a feedback, written questions whenever it is, I'm a direct guy. Let me think- bought it from how John here's. What I'm saying, rather than from my own perspective- and so the idea of can I be one after actually think of it in it from a different. Have? You can detaching often go on when I think about this less about the one who's communicating, and I want to see what Jacques? Oh here's for me when I'm direct and so ass, a when you are direct with your boss, you think she appreciated well, no, but
what she does know the information she needs to now. Ok She wants to hear their information. The weighty communicated, not necessarily so what? What information or what sort of evidenced you have that the way you communicating the truth of this information is not is not effective and she yelled at me one of my peers on a teams call on the internet area of a virtual teams. Call. Last week so we started talking about the direct approach the We talk about his hate slowdown, don't talk, and if you have to push back the technically talk it over time you, push back is in the form of questions and the big, the big part of that I think is The last time we were talking is when you Ask those questions- and we say you have Ask me questions the thing that the ego for its part, the Eureka will will convey we have is that your ass
those questions as a technique, as opposed to I'm asking. Russian and my boss from pure anybody doesn't to be your boss, might give me an answer. That was ever than mine. That might actually be right, and if I ask it Russian too cannot get a better understanding. What's going on, I have to have it I didn't know that this this for information might be correct. that there might, there might actually be right and the critique immediate feedback, the immediate direct response might, She also make it longer you get to the outcome that I want, which is what's best for them. seemed not just this one branch, not just one person, not just this one part of this directive. Entire region of responsibility, but the entire team that they are part of and
I say the biggest issue you ve got right now, as you have someone you have a boss that doesn't trust you have a boss, you have a good relations with. So how do we solve? These? Are the problems the number that one and you can do right now- is to build a better relations with your boss. You getting out is a sign that you have a bad relationship. So what are the things we do to build? A good relationship? You just talk about leader, capital. We talk four things all the time and we put them on the umbrella. We talk not cover move. We talk about teamwork, we talk about relationships and inside. That is this idea of leadership, capital and the components of building that capital is trust, respect imposing and listening and party whose work is only in guessing SAM Repetitive, but I don't it's not. edit it, because this is the decent and things that sit inside these relationships all the time, the more your boss influences you, the more influence you have of your boss, the more you listened to her the more she will. Listen to you, the more respect you show her, the more she will show you respect. The more you trust, your meaning,
She says we should do in a certain way and I not maybe right, let's go executed her plan, the more trust you build overtime at all of those things all that leadership capital with it does. Is it actually serve to reduce the action in your relationship, because there's less resistance is less to push back under less to argue about, and there's actually reasons for her to chew you out and all that over time if you play the slightly longer game, which is not the direct approach, was I just tell you the truth. I give you my two cents immediately. Is it help you steer the team to the right outcome, which is what you want. I guess is a little bit of repetitive. There We didn't talk about it. I didn't mention at last time, but the idea that your ego, will convince you not. you are right, but the best way to go The outcome is a tell everybody else that you're right as well, which we know doesn't work,
and help it doesn't give you what you need. Pertain be successful in the. what oh end up getting. You is yelled at by your boss, article, which we don't want bad for her, it's bad for you. It is bad for the british bet, it's bad for everybody. So this was an indirect approach discussion, but the real this- was the humility to go hey. You know what, if I talk like that, how does either pursing gonna take it, and I need changed the way. I I to change the way. I talk not that they'd need to listen to what I'm saying, because this is the Answer- yes, Conover, an ironic, proper usage of the word, ironic, ironic that I just like to be direct, but then, when someone's wreck with me, I don't like it at all, and I didn't quite have the foresight or the or the into spectrum to say wait a second. I didn't like getting treated that way, but that's what I do to everybody else, which is he's a crazy idea right, but we make them
take all the time we make that mistake. All the time where we, it's a little bit different for us well at the I'm sure, I'm sure you know Dave Likes, get that direct stuff feedback from me up to the most like that, no think a little bit deeper. You know it's interesting about. This have been throwing this word around a bit lately when it comes to leadership the work. The word is weak, weak. and people? Don't it's one of the worst things you can tell a leader rightful that their weak, your weak leader, That's like a military, the owners. They said it outside the motor, hey this person a week later, but here's. What interesting? What's interesting, what we think is weak, because. There's people that you we could easily convince. We could easily be convention. We might even think ourselves that if I listened Dave, even though subordinate to me, I'm weak commitment.
Actually does matter. Sport appear superior I listen to him, I'm weak from being weak, I show him some reverence for sea, What are you gonna? Do it I'm being weak. If I allow Dave to influence me with plan on being weak. Eve comes up with an idea, and I accept that idea over mine, I'm being weak. You can see what I'm over this It's just all ego, It's all eagle all day long. can allow ourselves to to. Be afraid of appearing weak and here's. What so messed up is what you think me. you look weak actually makes you look strong hard for people to understand that.
when you say hey. That sounds like a good plan. Man. When we hold your plan, it actually looks strong. It doesn't look week at all. My boss, I'm not afraid of my boss. That's the thing right, that's a strong statement, yeah appear weak and say I am afraid of my boss. That would be weak statement, I'm afraid of Boss, that's weak, nor so I'm not afraid my boss, I'll do whatever I wore Corp her tone for motor insurance. So I get asked a question whether we are for the council, Washington State a couple of the company attendees at the council, which is a very small group, very intense sessions we had up there couple days, but a company attendees had heard some of the stories from Leaf and Andrew
and their stories about me and and we'll stories made me sound, pretty cool right thanks, lay from Andrew for make me some cool, but but you know that just the basic Tough, but then these to attend these kind of we're talking afterwards And they said you know you, you have go you have you have really good intuition. Meaning that I had this sort of instinct of what to do in tough situations. You know, but this really good Intuition leadership intuition and I got it. I was like yeah, that's what you're damn right. I kind of told him that you know and I appreciated it. Preceded priest, precede life and Andrew making me look good in and then I appreciate the fact that these guys saw how just intuitive leader, natural leader I was.
But even ass, they were saying it's me. I got over the though the the. The four milliseconds of thinking. I was cool and then I thought myself? Well, that's freakin, not cool it all. Does she not quarrel? because if I'm just good at leading, because I have good intuition woven what what good is it It's good for me and it's good for my immediate tee, but it's not. I can't help anybody else right. I guess I look ass, I get where they're coming from it made sense, because, because I am good at figuring out what to do. I could see how they came to conclusion. Oh here's story lays down a story about this, that the other thing and Jacko did this, and it's like well Did you tell stories Jacques? Who did this like us? That makes me look cool whatever, but also it makes him think like. Oh
there will be listening resource it, they can ok, we'll hats freakin, pretty impressive. How do you do it? Oats, because you have good instinct, you, you kind of knew what to do. but if it's just because I have good instinct, if that's the reason why I am able to pull this off than what good is it for everybody else, it what's good for rivers listening this right now what good is it for people that want to lead better. just our job was a bit. You know he's got good instinct. Does so. I started thinking about that as good a little paranoid and I'm thinking Ok, what actually is it. Because I know All this, what I had to decipher GSM sit there. You got the little boost of ego of like well yeah. You ve got really good instinct economic, where the second. I wasn't worn this way wasn't. Wasn't in this way, I remember being in a sealed, platoon and looking round always and always will be doing right now. I remember that I remember
As the quote instinct developed, what wasn't instinct was developing. It was leadership that was developing is not a not a supernatural, think it it's the way. you think it's the way that I think it's What my mind does when I have a decision or up problem to solve, ordered maneuver too. Back when I have to lead I'm going to. What is my mind going to do source ok, what am I gonna do it? This is just instinct just intuition. There is a protocol that has taken place. What is it? Ok, you can probably get the first thing? I'm really do I want to detach, but I'm not just gonna do tat and not just gonna take a step back. There is more to it because taking us,
back only gives you one perspective. One other perspective sort out just take a step back, I'm gonna move around The first thing to do some oscillate and honest: have isn't it when you find in aircraft Dave when you're diving, we would the type of diving that we do you're you're trying stay at twelve feet, basically and certain things can make you go deeper and, as you To go deeper, you compensate and you start to go up, but most people overcompensate ends you go seventeen feed your wall, I'm way too deep, and then you go so you make these adjustments to your rig into the way you're, breathing and all of a sudden, Yurek five feet. And go home, I got him to close the surface technical background, so you so we call it porpoises up and down, like a corpus of that happens with an aircraft, but the does yeah does and it's not a good thing.
It's it's not a good thing. We call it p I'll witches pilot induced oscillations. I love it. So what I want to do when I attach is, I want to oscillate I want to p o I want to, and what do I mean by that I want to, twenty thousand feet: thirty thousand people guess what did I wanna go right back down to four feet. I want to look at that problem and I want to take a step back out to twelve feet. Then I wanted a hundred feet, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna oscillate my altitude up down close far close medium, so I'm gonna Ashley, then I'm not gonna go up and down and out you'd I'm gonna maneuver around I'm gonna. Look at things from different vantage point. I'm gonna see different angles. I'm going to ask more questions everything I'm talking about physically this import. Everything I'm talking about physically doing are not just talking not physically doing, I'm talking about mentally being able to go to different outrage, seeing things from different perspectives homage to check my flank, I'm in a check
six to see what I'm missing, which habit than I formed. I would check like like when I was doing an immediate action drill with a rifle in my hand. I would always check the flank it instinct and then I will check my sex. It's an instinct that you get. you guys had to have something like that totally obsolete and yours in your flank than your checking your instrument than you check and this then your check on that and you're just going through this cycle, and then I I'm gonna question if my reality is even correct, because I dont trust myself and I don't mean that in a bad way. But I did a podcast with the with ECHO Charles little while ago, I think, of underground podcast, on talking about the fact that we're all crazy. we're all crazy. This is a true statement. Do no one so we're on saying, I think, is that Technical definition of insane means that what
I think is reality. What I is reality is not already that someone that's insane, will here's what's goin on check this out, is the reality that Dave Burke sees the same reality that I say is it. now these differences here things a little bit differently and look we're probably as closely aligned is to humans can get as far as what reality looks like to us they'll. My reality looks a little bit different. So therefore you're a little bit and saying it's all MIKE is neither one of our realities is actual reality. The reality is a little bit different, then you see and what I see so everybody's Lubeck crazy. So I have that in my mind too. I'm thinking all the time when I think I know reality, I'm unthinking myself. Well, I am actually a little bit crazy and my reality might be different than Dave's and it might be. Within less than it might be different than whoever elsewhere working with,
so I have that going on. On top of all that, I don't find conclusions in my fault patterns, I don't to a point where I say: ok, there's the answer right there. I don't find conclusions I just find a new perspective and I dont think I'm done yet. I don't find a perspective and say: okay. This is reality right here. This is what looks like now Ike stop. Once I find a perspective find that little such a reality on immediately looking for nothing and so on, unconsciously running battle, that, through this loop And I know we like running loops. I know we like running the loop which I'll talk And am also got another loop that I'm running like a little little combat leadership. Extreme ownership, loop that are running, saluted, free lobbies, I'm right about what I'm unobserved and by the way
when we talk about our target oscillating perspectives, so serve means moving around looking and and trying to see other perspectives. That's what observers orient, how many an organ? in a leadership situation when asked questions, that's how figure out where I am and how all this fits together then decide what, what kind of decision I am I gonna make aiming to make small decisions. Because I want to make them rapidly and in Germany Atwater Monistic Undertake action, a small action based on a small decision and by the way, when I too, action my aunt the patient is that I'm actually wrong? I have it Fifty percent of my brain that saying you know what you could be wrong right now. You could be wrong right now, so you jack yourself, and you bet You better start running this. This loop again immediately. I think this. it will make decisions and they think they're gonna be right. Ninety,
percent of their brain thinks that can't be right and I never think that so the first let them run it's your basic outta loop and then run it again. And I know we don't have to run the whole thing. I know that this is, you can run part of it and you can you can I feel in other sections, but that's wonderful, but then I could combat leadership. This kind of this kind of extra ownership loop, that I'm gonna run and its real straightforward I gotta go. I gotta tell you this. I want one adjustment to this, as I was as I was coming here today. This one adjustment cause it's a big deal for me,
the one I just meant that I made is the first thing I think about the first thing I think about is time. I am acutely aware of time. I pay attention to time. I am always tracking time, because time is the thing that we can't adjust, we can't control it. We can't get it back. If we don't pay attention to time, it will bite us The primary things are thinking about my head, but let them for the first thing that I want to think about the first little checklist how much time to have what? How much time do I have? What does the clock doing? and I have to revisit that all the time I was thinking you I was brag work, yeah brag that Oh, I was never late in the Navy for twenty years. How come because I'm a cop, always pay attention a time. Always they can
particular but longer hey. I need a movable bit quicker, always paying attention to type. So time comes first, then guess what comes next cover move and my support my team in the teams around me. That's a little sanity check. It's a little looped lives. I will check and my supporting a in the teams round me. Am I doing that Do not? I got a problem. The simple. Can I make this more simple I make this situation. Where can I make it more simple right now? What about right now. Because things are trying to become more complex? That's what's trying to happen I'm constantly saying. Ok, how can I sympathise prioritizing you, what what's the priority right now? Here's here's a little additional information. What priority right now. What was it and most important? What's it going to be.
I'm looking for that, what is go, I know what the priorities right now already told everyone priorities, but I'm not thinking about that anymore now looking. What is the next priority? Gonna be cuz. I got the team when I say hey, we need to get not building good, move building, I'm not thinking about that anymore, I'm thinkin! What's the next priority, gonna be decentralized command check this out he's a little. She hears a little loop to run on yourself. what can I task out into who. That we are in a fire fight? We are in a critical situation. What can I task out? Stoner goat Tat building right there did on the rooftop. It's done. what can I get off my plate hate Dave. Take my radio men go free can get cops. my point anymore, I'm not worried about. Is the team gonna be able to act without without communicating with me
asking me for a decision. If I say, hey, Dave Goma comes with with the aircraft cool, but did just empower him to do anything with that Dave. May cause the aircraft get the frequent Did the enemy shot out on the west over their call a unique talked meagre. Cuz. I know what you're going to do during to get bombs on target. After that. What am I doing? I'm thinking about my ego and I'm thinking about humility because wait. A second What role is my ego playing in the decisions that are making right now? Am I put in the town before I myself am. I put in the mission before myself. am I making a mistake right. By making a mistake. Am I wrong whereby my emotions bears little check
Motions under control. Are my emotions impacting my decision making process? Have you ve caught yourself in? act of making emotional decision yes, absolutely and Alexander, and a more like thinking of the feeling of when you catch herself zone approved in spawn up their didn't like that. Imagine if you're not running this loop in your head, you use bypass, always links check to see if we can bypass and all these things. Cover move, you not worried about any these things. You don't keep an exemplary prioritize next year. You not decentralized comment. You not painted. In the time. you're not paying attention? Your motions, here's another one perspective right, I'm constantly running my mind. Thinking wait a second. What is Dave seen right now? What is life seen right now? What does the enemy thing right now. gotta know Dave's in that building. I know left over here, but what
What is it, what is leaf see? What is Dave see What is the enemy see right now and by the way, is there an easier way to do? What we're doing? I'm constantly asked myself that asked over his another user, easy way that we can get this done? We? Why are we why we exposing ourselves over here. Why we, where we pool our resources over there? an easier way to get it done, and then what about. What about this question? This is one that gets left off the played all the time. when it comes to leadership decision making. And this one so obvious, but Let me throw it out you, what's our passion, What's our mission, what is our long term strategic mission and does whatever I'm doing right now support it, because you
making one small decision and other small decision? Another small decision also you're doing up and has nothing to do with the recent natural out there guess what then I run that loop again, and I think this is the. I think this is the key. of my quote intuition my leadership intuition! I think the key component of my your ship intuition. Is that I don't mentally stagnate. I don't get caught in a rut of thought. I live on the battlefield you have to maneuver. If you're gonna win, you have to you can't stay still, you can't get stagnant. And the same in life and business and in your head of making any kind of decision if you get caught in a way on channel of thinking. You are going he crushed you or limiting your vision.
you weren't and when you limit your vision, you linear limit your possible solutions. You lived limit your possible decisions that you can make to win. You get what, in one channel of thinking, we The gps came out with it PS, came out. I dont forget The fur does one prior one that was issued in the field, but I use gps system, callings called appears any Piazzi PS, any satellite navigation, something precision, navigation system, never ate Piazzi. Suddenly I think I know she talked about so at the time I dont know if they had the full sat the for what they call a saddle. Eight constellation bear the constellation of satellites up on and off. They had all of them. Yet there was like this three, twenty four satellites in the constellation and they only had maybe that fifteen I need
Mobile Satellite is on a different frequency of megahertz, so when you would turn on the gps initial GPS only got on frequency at a time and by the way. If you only know where one satellite is, you have no idea where you are so that that that GPS, when you turn it on it would search for frequency in its tune itself to one frequency to listen and it would wait for twenty minutes before it would After the next one and sometimes I mean you couldn't even manually, say hey here. We are where's the satellite. You can't do that had to find itself and it would take some time to take four hours to two figure. where, where it was now wants, it knew which satellites we're up which ones when the consolation that it could start maintaining, track and would shift as one would fade. It would go to another one.
now on your phone and my phone, that those things are tracking to suit their track and twenty four frequencies it finds itself immediately, always knows where it is, because keeping all those channels open! I think of your mind like that, if you get stuck on one of these frequencies? If you get stuck on one of these channels, you're not. and I know where you are, and it's not hard here's! What scary it's not hard to get stuck! It's not Hard to get stuck just you your emotions, whether to get stuck in one perspective, whether it's you gets you pay attention a time. You stock in one of these rights, these channels and you're not going to be able to make good decisions, so That's the quote: intuition, it's not intuition, I'm not I'm, not! I'm not. I dont have a superpower.
I ran the sloop. I ran these two loops basically and You run a quick and you dont get stuck in a rut, you can see more and you will be able to lead correctly. We got it. I got too much to talk about on this by gas, but think. The note that I wrote down at the biggest thing for me to think about what you just said and when you were talking about oscillations, writhed very begin, your time oscillations and eyes. You know, there's a virtual around the airplane. To is the difference that the oscillations that we are talking about is is the one you describe the beginning, the one I just gotta periods as a reactive omitted, I'm I'm seventeen Sweetwater, I'm reacting you talking about being proactive with those oscillations I'm at wealthy and if I stay twelve feet all I'm gonna see is the world is wealthy, so I'm going to move to seventeen feet and yeah
There's our aviation version. I'm attend that wherever it doesn't matter, it is this date is the forcing myself to proactively move to a different point of view. To see what the world looks like think about how cover was like my evasion. Braids ok, are planting is we're. Gonna, go from point a to point b at thirty thousand feet. Coordinated forty thousand feet demonstrate I'm not locking model pilot and not move one foot off it and How much of the world I won't see when and how comfortable. It actually is a pilot like at Since thirty thousand warningly ass of annoying, I want to down exactly thirty thousand feet when we are landing aboard the aircraft carrier, we would fall something called the meatball, which is yellow light, that's sort of the end to do another series of lights that are in a cross, a horizon line that are green, have a polite and middle the green light on right. I'm supposed to be and
worst thing you can do when you're landing aboard the carrier would be reactive. This ball, if I'm low, I'm so behind, and I got to throw a whole bunch of power, and I'm not going- by backing the middle eminent going superhighway? Then I got a call this power back off and bring it back down, and I'm just acting to the position of this light, which is really the reaction of the position of worms, was to be which is not on the right path to where I'm supposed to go, but if I M actually flying and I see what we call a centred ball, which is that's exactly I'm supposed to be- I don't leave it there. I practically I'm going to just a little bit of power. Push it a little bit up and I'll bring power. So I'm going to control I'm going to proactively control where I am as opposed to Reactive and how easy it is to get complacent with your position because of the work that it takes. To move away from where you are here. The companies too really well you this we're, not really good place. You guys it's coming just ride this for a while. Let us stay where we are as
I was too, What a boss down to! Certainly when I think of you is the discipline that it takes to force myself to look at other things when we could stay caught a good. Let's just ran and. The different perspectives that you see when you proactively oscillate, as opposed to the reaction which a very different thing. We're talking about of. I'm off some reacting in a behind it, I'm just moving around and in that how difficult it is to. I can't stay here see everything I have to go somewhere else. If I'm going to directly to Myself to do that which, in what you're about, you is, is theirs single component, but it's really. The brain is the hardest part alone for spy brain not to come, not to agree that what I see as everything the conclusion that I've drawn isn't cause there's not enough information. I gotta go somewhere else, yeah you're, my instinct, that's my instinct.
think this is. I don't have a conclusion right now when you, when you're parachuting You have a malfunction with your parachute. They give you a lot of warnings in a lot of training that hey don't get sucked into that because what you'll do just sit there in trying to fix your parachute picture, pursue picture, pursue picture parachute, picture pursuit and you hit the ground and you die. What they tell. You is check your parachute, checker altimeter check your parachute check. Your altimeter check your parachute check it out. Altimeter twenty five feet. Cut that thing away get a result. I know that you guys have to have things like that, where, if You are, if you allow yourself to get fix it, on any aspect of your aircraft or any aspect of the enemy, you're you're taken that thing into the dirt totally, percent- and it is a whole other sect sentiment, I wrote down here and try to do it quickly, Cosette A talk too long as I'm kind of died, in my brain. What you're saying is theirs
of two sides that one is weak on a fixation weakness target fixation, but I've gotta malfunction of my gauge whatever, and if I focus on One thing I do surrounding us. I will literally literally find the ground and kill myself. Even if it's the altimeter cause. There's other accuse that I can look at altimeter isn't working to make sure I don't hit the ground there's vertical speed. There's angle, it there's a bunch of things, so I I can't get fixated on any one thing. thinking in the terms of the word they use were beginning of instinct is, if that's answer than I can teach it which is awful but we'll no, that's not true, but only teaching- and we do this all the way the topic and level when the very beginning level is I need you to learn. You check your flanks and I need you to warn you gotta check your six got. You need to learn that skill and so what I will do so when you go through an engagement, you pushed through the engagement counting fifteen look over your right shoulder counterfeiting. Look over your left. Shoulder
What I do is, I sort of I introduced through wrote, mechanics that Euro do it at fifteen seconds and what that eventually, moves into his you, you you I I look at my watch anymore. I don't the set fifteen. Second, don't count and my head one to it becomes linked. But what you'll find is that if I said, if I go now the debrief. When I look at your camera you'll through this engagement, and I will, in my brain out of fifteen and without a clock, you will do exactly and people Great instincts, jockers got great instincts had no. That was that was a skill and it started with the rudimentary such a clock. Look over her shoulder check, Banu any. Do it enough enough enough and then start to happen as you'll start to go man. I think I've missed this. I have not checked my six in enough and not recently enough and you'll, see look over his shoulder become active like chocolate.
it's almost like you knew the enemy was rolling and that built attributed to great instincts. But it's not It's your brain, saying dude! You haven't been looking at other places, and so he said- and it starts with his very wrote thing and it turns into instinct as I guess, look back I would be lying. I didn't say that there are some people who have some some intuition about things. Our people have some good intuitions about thing, but this is one hundred percent teachable one hundred per cent, at least in terms of getting people better at doing it, what's crazy is in the aircraft of phone f. Eighteen before in an effort team of innovative but you're always warnings these audio warnings warning altitude altitude and there you go so in a guy, that's been highly trained, is gonna get can socket into and has to have a voice come and tell them to to check your attitude
guess, what there's no warning lights in leadership that you, that their there aren't any if you just decide to focusing Sarka Emotional, your perspective gets locked into just what you're saying or just what you're bosses seeing or or you lose lack of what there is nothing that goes aged? What's your mission? What's your mission? There's nothing said you emotional you're, getting emotional there's, not much as this is your ego driving this, there is none that says, check the clock. You gonna run or time think about this is what I'm saying This is what I am saying. This is the loop that my mind is running and it's happening instinctively because I've trained it that way and it all starts and the key component of it is to be able to do tat if you can't detached none of this other stuff is going to happen. It's not going to happen. Look.
you- could actually detaching right. These things down on us on an index card and be like, next time we have a issue at the company, I'm going to pull this out and I'm going to as I'm talking, I'm going to sit there and and and and I'm going to go see. checklist and make sure that I'm falling is protocol. You could do that end. It would actually be helpful. And if you do that long enough, eventually you realize hey, seem like instinct, but what you really done, Is trained yourself, Oh, you feel your emotion spoken up. Oh, it's might there's my ego. Oh I've, I've, I'm only looking What do I need to check my sex right now? I need to understand Dave's perspective. Am I weak? I simplify this right now. Was thinks it's a loop and it seems like instinct, but its habit to habitat was formed check right. Another. Fifty seven men
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Transcript generated on 2021-08-12.