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The Debrief w/ Jocko And Dave Berke #24: Don't Be The Easy Button and Keep Your Opinions to Yourself

2023-02-02 | 🔗

Jocko and Dave Berke breakdown challenges of companies and solutions from Echelon Front.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This is the jackal debris forecast episode. Twenty four with day book me jocker, willing, Dave what's going on. Let's debrief, what's happening, what do we got? I would like to start these off like a little like a little phrase. It helps me think about the surest way to describe. What's going on. Ok what you pick for this time d, be the easy button and keep your opinions to yourself. Ok, so don't be easy button very cliche. Even we use it and cliche for reason, cause. There's it's a good piece of advice. To give the people but keep your penance yourself, other times people, want to hear that at a time times, they need to hear that there is true benefits. To keeping your opinion to yourself. I know when the book leaders, abstraction tactics- I talked about, don't give up your position right. We don't announced to the enemy where we're going to attack from we don't a flag up while we're on reconnaissance right to tell hey we're here,
Why would you do that? So there's a one aspect of keeping europe. Used to yourself and, of course, right now, as we say that there is at least at least with, as you say, fifty percent it could be. Seventy could be thirty. There's a lot the percentage of people that go with that crap What are you would you got an opinion? You need a voice, it unita, people know what you're thinking, that's what needs to happen, so few people that are that your hair stood up when David had keep your opinion to yourself. If you're here stood up a little bit if you thought you were gonna. Listen to a different part ass. If, then, that's actually you you maybe should be listening this book. So what is it? What's his name? yeah and the whole point mine that is just like you described as yeah there's always treated the way. We explain this, but there is much more to it than just that phrase of keep. Your opinion shows up their national it's time to share your opinion course, but in this it sort of summarizes this particular case. So I got this
company we ve been working for a while person individual the individual wrong? It is a ceo. She started this company, it's her company found it from the get go, it does like marketing design. She works with a bunch of bigger companies. She started as a one person show, and now she's got twenty plus people at or companies doing really great her frustration. What she's saying to me as she's working through this, is he first I frustrated with my team and my subordinates, keep coming to me with questions that they can answer for themselves. How do I get them too? coming to me for every little thing, so she's in charge gonna much people working for her good people. Her frustration is this. and becoming to her for everything and you less than to be making decisions on the wrong. So my immediate thought is how want to make sure we're not talking about an easy button scenario, which again is a cliche. Like you said, but people come to you and if you saw There are problems for them, overtime,
You become the easy button. In fact, if you can see my problems and like your helpful to me, it'll come coming. We have got this problem, can you fix it and if you fix it, that will become a habit we've got: pavlov's dogs yeah right. So every time Dave comes to me and says: hey Jocko, which I do here and I tell them exactly what to do and it gets the problem solved eventually dave. Trained to not think for himself, but to common and press the easy button, which is me with this solution. You want, to make sure that that this wasn't this scenario yeah I wanted candidates Where the because if you are the easy, but, unlike you described, that's the predicament you'll find yourself in his people keep coming to me to solve their problems, so I saw and they keep coming back and of your job. the company. The ceo, like you'd, want to be solving all these problems. You want them out their operating independently as you some free time, some bandwidth. do some other things will not only that if you want to develop a people below you in the chain of command than they? U need to. Let them do that and if you think that The person is at a sales meeting, two hundred fifty miles away, indifferent, timezone and now
it's after work hours in their calling, you and you're your kids rehearsal, and they can making decisions. That's a problem, so we want to build decentralized command within sight or organisations that we can operate more effectively more efficiently, and if we're the only person that can solve problems, we're not going to have that yeah and it's super inefficient, especially if you come to me and I'm going to solve it. I could ask nobody questions that you have already know the answer to so it takes a lot of time to get a resolution just like you described so start with it's always important to look at the If what reasons why the things it was interesting about this one is I know a lot of the scene. We ve been working with them for a while, so these people she's talking about her downstream leaders and the scandal couple layers and there are some a relatively new, but they ve been around for a while. We know these people, these are like smirk, talented people these. Aren't people that you would think habitually want other people to solve their problems or that they are not kept people of doing it's, you put that in the category of I guess more people their capable
this one is probably not just her tendency to like solve problems and the fact that she's frustrated led me to just talk. Mother sit talk more about the situation kind of fine what's going on So I asked her unlike hate what we think like. What are these conversations like? How to? How does this happen? Were somebody comes to you and they say: hey? Can you solve this problem? For me, and her version of the story is they want. Have this discussion around ideas and so you'll come to me, I'm I'm on the sea. Oh you you come to me and we ve got this strategy. You want to apply this product wanna put together this thing we want to. We want to kind of solve, and the way that she has it in her mind is what she wants to do is create what she called it. She uses phrase the ban. it's the idea win scenario. You come with your ideas. I come with my ideas and four five. Sit down, will collaborate and, in the end, will all agree on what the best idea is, and so the concept
the best ideas scenario sounds really cool, but there's a little bit of a problem with that, and there is a little bit of a problem. This one is She was really vocal about her opinions and what she would do as advocate for the way she wanted it the progressive aggressively- and in theory, that's fine, but if you're the ceo and the founder of accompanying, you want things done a certain way, and I tell you down to the detail how what things done eventually what you're gonna do, is acquiesce or a very higher is that what you're gonna do is acquiesce and general need better. a gettysburg he's, the guy that ran the the northern union troops- and we talk about this. We go to gettysburg the way he would run as meetings when he died. For opinions started the junior man, to prevent waste what you're talkin about right. So on the ceo- and I say: hey, let's How do you want to do this mission? This is what I think at least half
if the team goes okay. Well, I'm on board with that sounds good. I'm not going to I'm not going to before my opinion right now, I'm going to keep it to myself. So that's a good way to defeat that people being hesitant and people being to influence by you when you're in a leadership position, so general mead would say our I want to know what you guys think start with junior guy, and you know Think about that in the connect you to that, if I'm in a leadership role- and we start with the general guy- you- you talked about a concept called the the minimally viable plant and saw a light for yeah. All I'm looking for the cool thing is: if you start down with you over the junior guy if he come out, comes up at the envy, the minimum violent you, you don't even know, got needed so that high what you actually want to avoid, and that really is what came out in this cases. That's a great make, especially if you can avoid getting up to your level where you have to then say what you think, one of the worst things you can do, as I say, jacko love to hear what you think about this. Here's. What I think we should do
you're going to be very inclined to go they day. Why your way and if you started to talk to somebody, the folks, the way they felt about it, it wasn't a an open forum Ideas to come over the best idea wins it was she. opinions about everything down to the details and I dont think She trusts me to solve this on my own. So what this doing is kind of behind her back like her, she just going to push back anyway, less go to her out of the gate was what was happening as they work for meeting these plans. Putting these ideas together, putting some pieces into place, presenting them as part of this best idea winds and they were losing every one of the conversations so what they started to do. The habit started to be created as that they stop doing that they stop doing that work. They started they stop putting in the thought behind it. Stop thinking about their way of doing it because they knew then in the end, They are going to lose the best idea debate
first of all I do. This is look, is critical, not critical, but think about the framing of best idea. Wins because now it's your idea against my dear we're in a competition, and I want to win and you the wind and on this a year, and then we know it so when framing something as the best idea wins. That's probably a bad idea of the cause. It's going to put everyone. Anyone that has any competitive nature whatsoever is going to go in there with this idea, the the thing is, you might we again have were engaged in competition is used at the best idea. that means and look a woman, any less woman, man, whoever it that's the ceo of accompany their competitive person by nature. So there's a decent chance that if you work for me, Dave theirs decent chance that
maybe there's some info I held out on you. Maybe there's some techniques that I could have taught you that I didn't maybe there's some information that I could have given you that I didn't and now all of a sudden, I'm able to win all the time. Well, that's because I'm withholding information or I'm not training, you correctly, I am actually depressed and saddened if my subordinate can't come up with a freak. Unplanned that's it! That's it! That's beautiful! That's! That's! That's pretty I'm good and it doesn't take usually doesn't take that long before the person, works for you now they're in the field there doing this all the time where they go: hey boss and there their plan is either equivalent to or possibly better than what you will come up with. Now! Listen! You will have the advantage when you're in a leadership position. If you do it correctly, you have the advantage of being detached. So when dave, you know you the platoon commander in your run, an mission, and you run another mission and you run another mission in august and you get really gonna planning those things and I'm doing my job correctly, I'm detached and I go hey. Let me look at your plan and maybe one out of every three plans ago: hey dave, you gotta, remember
this piece of terrain feature over here. That can be a problem, so I You'D- still be able to be a little bit of a tactical genius, but for them part. I should get up we where dave the planet you come up with, is not just a minimum minimally viable plan, which is where we may have started six months ago or three months ago plans are actually totally you and the only thing I'm doing is I'm just giving them a strategic sort of forty thousand foot view to make sure that nothing got mists make sure that you didn't get too close to the planning where you might amiss and bigger picture stuff. So that's There are some things to work out as well and to think about is number one: or do we really want to frame. Our planning sessions as we people winning verse, people losing and listen. I've known thousands have, I know thousands I am also offer nora I've known many many many people that they relish. Winning with them
idea they relish, when their idea is, is the winning idea when they they frame it. That way as a victory and look there we could probably do a whole nother podcast about how you contend with people like that. That they've got the winning idea and there's I mean it's pretty obvious what you can do you take the indirect approach going to ask her questions you're going to make them think that your ideas, their idea and then they think that they're, the greatest thing ever and so their idea, one. They don't know. That was your idea, we're all good with that, but those are just Some things to watch out for watch out how you frame things, look of you framework. If I, if I told you and leaf and jamie hey, listen I want each of you to come up with a plan on how to execute with disquiet at the river comes up with the best plan, wins. That's not a great environment to go into the it it also. It also mitigates the idea of the, liberalization of ideas right cause you or part of your idea's good. But part of my idea is good and we take them both and marsh them together and all of a sudden we got a really good plant as opposed to
one hundred percent me or one hundred percent you. I don't want one hundred percent of your plant. Could you miss some things? I don't want. One hundred send my plane cause. I miss some things so open. Your and everybody open your mind, like, I can't think of a, I can't think time where I've come back to you with a plan I've had about whatever it is that I want to do it. Echelon front that has included in from Jamie haven't, talked to J Pinkney. Hey, I got a job, was asked about this. Here's some thoughts ahead. I can't we have a timer. I've come back to you about something that really affects the company, something we really wanted to do from a planning standpoint. That didn't include a bunch of other people anyway, and I think to your point the only way I want to be comfortable with that collaboration is that I don't feel like I'm competing you're, not tracking, winds and losses of your subordinate leaders, like our dave gotta w on this one in jamie loss, or vice versa. another thing that's going on is once again myself in the category where I'm competing for best idea will continue and I'm the boss and I'm competing against you and I'm competing against jp and of competing at jamie gonna fall off of that plan.
yeah what mamma and a follow up with it. But you know eighty point. Zero cattle academy call today- and I was talking about being for where and when I got done talk about One of the things that I talk about was hey. Listen, you are either we're talking or you're listening, it's very difficult to do both those things at the same time, and if you really want to know what's, if you want to really want to understand, what's happening in a situation, if you're talking Not absorbing information, not collecting information, you you're, not processing, what's really going on you're, not listening to other people, so talk less shut your mouth, listen whether people have assets and when I, I don't want that J. I pointed out. You know we have me when we have meetings at national front she's like she point everyone like hey jacko, doesnt, really talk he might something at the end he might chime in. After all, the arguments have been led laid on the table by jamie by life by dave by J p, everyone's put their work out, and I I have not
try to formulate my own plan. because, as soon as I start trying to formulate my own plan, all of a sudden, I'm in the weeds- and I don't want to be in the weeds and it's the same thing with you- don't tactical operations, I look at a target. I look at a target and you know that I mean if you had a. If you have figure out how to do a strike on a surface to air. You know what he caught: I was I it's for you guys something different for us. Was I as late in it. Air defence system. Ok, so you guys that's! I have for you guess for me. It's meted out actual julia, so I ads for you guys was an integrated air defence systems. So if you had to look at a coastline, you can look Add it be like: ok, here's the general plan. You can figure that out of thirty seconds cause that for your whole, but it the soon decisions you started committing and look. Ok with the attitude to this one and where's this one, a rate now listen you're getting in the weeds, it's better to say all right, where's the looting Let's have a look, it's come up with a plan, they come up with a plan
to attack to do a strike mission on these integrated air defence systems and you get to look at it with a second set of eyes and you're gonna, be infinitely better at catching. issues that might be there, so as soon as this ceo is presenting. Her ideas. She's already taken herself out of the altitude out of the command position where she can see the most and she's in the weeds with everybody else and slinging it out for the for the victory of total yeah, alright. Well, you ve already hit both directly, they knew this is all about detachment and in one of the things I've discovered the more I've done, this when I'm dealing with it with with layers of leadership at every level, every level leader from ceo to the most junior frontline leader when You're dealing with founders, people have literally if this is an idea that they ve had in their mind that came up with on their own.
I have noticed that detaching for them can can be harder, and you understand this, having founded in multiple companies and also you I know you ve worked with comp companies that led by the foundering ceo, the ability to attach sometimes can be harder for them. Well, this is the the absolute how to that if people ask me, what's the difference between leading a team and leading a business or leading a family in the the thing is in your family: it's your family. So it's much much harder to detach and be unemotional cause. It's your kids and you care about them, and you can't fire kids that can be with you that you care for your wife or your husband. There can be with you and that's the way it is so it's very difficult to detach. So that's why oftentimes, when we have to deal with this situation we say is hey it's your baby, I get it yeah, no one wants to say their baby's ugly. No one wants to say their baby needs some help and something no one wants to say. Their baby needs to move in a different direction because they were actually wrong about these various factors. So, yes, the very difficult
whether someone's the words, the founder of accompany sure, that's one thing, but when it's like I have my idea that ideas, my baby, it's hard for me to say that Actually you what I'm gonna do Leave this baby out in the woods cause it's not going to make it harder for people to do that yeah and that kind of covers it is that that was the connection I was making from detachments as a founder, it's really hard to detach from the Thing that you literally gave birth to sometimes and the same thing is: if you foster this culture of compete, so much so that I win you lose rather than we come up with the best idea for the company to tell our clients omnibus, Time detaching from my plan is no damn jack was plain, is better than mine, but I don't want anybody to know that Sell, dig deeper into my plan, makes it even harder tat, so you covered all those things. These are all conversations we had it in listen support to say, all the things that she's doing or for all the right reasons is all the right reasons. This none of the various plan to make your team feel like they don't trust you
or that you don't trust them and to make the miserable it's also not in the first place to waste your time, which is a lot of it, was her time was being wasted as she felt tat. She was answering questions she shouldn't have to answer all stemming from from same thing there, so it to build a team dont build a tea. Were the best idea, wins build a team offers you can wear their idea winds and let them come up with a plan that minimum revival went and just like you describe it, put you in a great position to ask a couple of earnest questions to him. Help them see something. Maybe they didn't see, but in the end, as often as possible. Let them come up. Go with their plan, and sometimes you can do that by keeping your opinions to yourself. It's it's funny, that one of them Have you know my default settings and might you ve got a bunch of different default settings, but one of the default settings that I have is like I'm going with your plant now here's the cool thing about your plan. I don't care if you're, my boss, I give you my peer. I don't give you my support.
If I have the opportunity in you come up with a minimally viable plant, regardless of your my boss, you're my support are you? My peer bordeaux sounds good. So David, work for me and we gotta a project that we need to do and, you come to me and say: hey Jocko, here's how I think we should do the project, I'm gonna! Look you go. It's actually viable, okay, cool! Let's go with it. you're. My peer newcomer means a head. Jago here, it's how I think we should. Since I was a pup. Okay that looks good and if you're my boss- and you can be sage aka- he's the project, here's how I think you should do it and it's a viable plan, we're going with it. What a beautiful day, what a beautiful thing it saves so much. What's the word brain damage It saves brain damage the minute you say you know what your plans priggish, that's gonna work and, by the way. you gained so much leadership, capital and the way you know what's gonna happen the future. So when dave comes to me with his minimally viable plan to prepare
a brief about. Reducing costs for this client and I think no. I don't think we should talk about reducing costs. I think we should talk about streamlining and he Why thank you cutting costs? I think we should present streamlining and we get no fight about funds, not you for me we're doing streamlining and there we are the climate. Will we really interested in cost cutting right? Now I looked like an idiot cause. You know I can predict the future. So why did I put all my ball? My money on this bet that it was be about string, I'm an idiot. That's why see? None of us can be in the future. So, let's just come up with just use your plan and that such a such a black belt It really is such a black belt move much use their idea peer, subordinate superior you're gonna, be it's gonna save so much brain damage and look we want to get influence with people, so the minute dave presents plan to me- and I say yes, oversight,
I am able to influence him more on everything even These plans was but off then you're, my boss, in your plans, a little bit off as I do Your point is off for the following reasons: when all of a sudden you're going to be much more apt to force that thing down my throat, as opposed to say, okay, got boss, let me take a look at. It will come back to you. And show you how I'm going ask you your vision of thanks, jacko great, have chocolate such a good guy just takes often onto the next. I come back hey boss, really, like the plan you put together. Vision, looks great a couple little adjustments. I want to talk about While I'm not sure I did a good job telling you about this, and this other thing over here. I want to make these adjustments. Is that makes sense depth at catcher yeah? That makes sense yeah go ahead. So we ve got a vision. You thank you so much. But we're doing man. So did you win you talk to the ceo. How did she take it? Did she stand was hard for understand. Did you give her any protocols to follow? Did you tell her to keep your mouth shut, for you know hey when you go to the meeting. Listen,
That's a good protocol there's a weird How can day again on the academy in somebody asked about if you ve got tb, I what recalls. Can you take, and so these are physical protocols Being your mouth shut is a physical program like you will be able to see and hear and understand so much more. If you go into meeting you keep your mouth shut. Did you give us and protocols I got so. I gonna be really cool for when I say this and I explain it, but this was kind of an easy one hears. Let me explain why it's funny, because it same you you, you talked about this the academy as well about us totally different conversation you're having with a couple people in that moment, we look at somebody and you see them make the connection of. Is this what I've been doing and she put your hands on her face a little bit and- It was her away when I'm seeing her way of young, oh and honestly, especially when the sea on the fodder is so easy to not talk. It's always just sit there. Listen, this is
not going to be some big hurdle for her. If she can just go hey, you know a team, you guys have great ideas. I have not dinner, good job just here and we have to say and so when she had that recognition- and I think that came from me think what are these conversations like and as she's explaining it and I'm and I'm kind of point threat of weight? do you tell them what you want, and so, when she had that moment of, I realise what I'm doing it's going get some? It's gonna make it so much easier for her to not keep doing that so I'll be cautious. By saying this is an easy one. This stuff is hard to do, but she had recognition and it was written all over her face. She put her head down. I think I know what I'm doing here that no, I know she's much closer in the path and you had a conversation today where you had to cold leap on a zoom and because there's only two people see their faces around she's. I could see that their like I got it, I mean it. I'm here I actually opened up. My computer today had been writing yesterday had opened my computer, it in my four soares have the little laugh the source you know
and so writing in finnish writing yesterday and I had a couple windows open whatever three for windows open website this that the other thing email, started closing windows and I am, My Goddamn to my pursuers window, what was open- and I was looking for other words for the word idiot, so that shows you good side that show you that I'm going deeper really trying to help someone out. Turning an email or, or something like that saying in wanting to figure out a different way to tell someone that there are nearly eight or ten. Maybe I was asked to go back and and word, search and figure out what I use, and why was using its awesome, if you can figure out that you're an idiot it makes a lobbies resolving these problems. I think she came to the conclusion that I see what I'm doing up during that year and- and this is where to tie this back together, this is where the keeping your opinion to yourself is powerful and the
minute that you put your opinion out their europe's influence. Everything has gone especially wilt. Eighty leadership position. It will not listen. This is the thing leaders position or not because of dave? If working for you, am I roll lynn and said hey dave cheers what we got asked to do by the client This is what I think we should do. I already altered playing field a little bit of how you and I are about to interact cause, if you think my ideas really dumb your immediately like jocker, doesn't get this I've got a good overcome some obstacles here, where's. If I go hey you know: hey dave, here's this project we got tasked with did. Can you give me some thoughts on a good direction? Had all of a sudden you've got a blank? Can this map messing with it at all and there's nothing better than that, there's nothing better than that, and the reason is because I can't connect what's going on in your head. I can with controls corner. Might I can't control what when I say something, stupid or I'd, put a stake in the ground on something that's done, and I
can't do anything to take it back. It's out their wares I give you a blank canvas and let your thoughts flow now now I can adjust. Way. I interpret them. I can just the way I react to them. I can agree the way I interpret them, I can adjust the way I redress them with you, although syndrome, what are armed thing. I control now whereas when I go and put a stake in the ground might have offended. You I might I have commented a totally different angle. I might have commented at a at an angle. That's fine, but it obscured your vision of another angle that you would have seen had. I kept my freakin mouth shut in the beginning, so it's this idea of keeping your opinions yourself. This isn't an idea of hey, you need to some subdue. Your faults no it's actually wait a free your mind. It's actually way to free your mind, because now you're gonna have more mobility with People you're interacting with, and if, if can utilise the indirect approach
and you can now infuse your ideas with their ideas all of a sudden next day. Their idea just has a little infusion of a little jocko in it and we got to now. We have the best idea, which is what we want. That's right So there you keep some of those opinions. you yourself as long You can't long ago or is it my turn up? It's ok! So Similar I'll try and give you a statement for the that income is this a little bit, if you're not getting push back, you probably wrong, You could be wrong on many different counts. If you're, not and push back from your team This is very alarming, it very well with what we just talked about. So if I'm, the ceo and I'm rolling in I'm, presenting my ideas and am basically getting them once, and that says that sounds great, then. there's, probably an issue with them,
offering up and ideas, there's probably an issue with the way that I speak to them. There's probably an issue with our relationships, so. we want to have pushed back now. That being said, we and get into a scenario where the push back that we're getting starts to get to a point where pushing us over and that might scarce and people. might really scare people cause. What's really gonna hit the ground when you're, when your idea gets pushed over the thing that's gonna fall. Is your ego so I was out and have tax if you're training exercise- and I and I came up with a tool that I think is a very helpful tool that can help everybody. It's a it's a it's a gauge. No, you fool. Aeroplanes, get various gauges right. What gauges got fuel gauge your gauge without spy,
species g gauge slots gauge lots gauges. So here's a gauge that I want you to put into your brain. If you're out there was nervous, it's the export an effort meter, the e m, the The explanation effort meter. Which means if you are trying to convince or you're trying to persuade or your, Trying to prove a point to someone on your team upwards, the chain of command pay. It into the amount of effort that you are putting into your explanation check the ie. check the explanation ever meter because was the look, there is a chance. That. The person you are true to convince is just a block headed half witted. move, brained idiot
or somewhere a word or some other word for it. There's a chance right, there's a chance at you. You know you ve gone out. You fired in this person has gone through the schooling that they aren't you when they ve been promoted. That was not that, but that they done all that. But there's still got a smoother put. Their brain is smooth as a bowling ball right, that's possible, possible there. Just not they just don't have, the cognitive capacity to see the brilliance of your ideas or theirs. Chance that if it takes so much effort for you to explain something to someone, there's a chance that I might be wrong- and I know it's highly unlikely, but you've just be wrong about something. So as you are trying who explained to them over and over and over again. Instead, once that meter goes into the red. Why don't you stop talking and start listening, stop talking and start listening
add on early podcast, that I have a limit for being my head against. The wall is forty seven times so, five being my head against the wall, forty seven times the younger forty forty seconds, the max like yours. to get something done. You're gonna beat your head against the wall. You china comments. I don't go Forty eight times keep it up. Forty seven, this The same thing like how frost. Treated. How annoyed how irritated should you get trying to explain your brilliant plan to your boss to appear to your subordinate to your wife, to your husband to your kid. You actually shouldn't get that frustrated the the e m alarm should go off well before you lose your mind. Well before you lose your temper well before you you've wasted an epic
amount of leadership, capital you you, you should stop because if I have a freak in brilliant idea, dave on how to do something- and I and convey it to you in a rational amount of time, with a rational mount of words without irrationally theirs. problem most likely with mighty? At short, like us, it there, chance that You'Re- some under cover agent from another company or are you, have some alignment with evil that you're trying to carry out those possible right is possible that the it's possible that you actually getting paid by a competitor and yours bring my company down right, that's possible right. It is possible, but chip. is our ninety nine point: nine, nine, nine, nine, nine nine percent that
You actually see something that I don't see or you understand something now understand, or my idea doesn't make sense for any multitude of reasons. So by the way, this doesn't only apply to you and I business or someone in business. This applies like having a conversation with another human being, and this is very prevalent in this day and age. Right we're having a When you get into a vigorous debate, here's a good little catchword for you. This will help you. If you get into a vigorous debate, I recommend vigorous listening Actually, recommend you listen to what the other person is saying. then I I recommend you ask earnest questions what you understand, what they're saying. I recommend that your default mode, here's another default, setting my default setting you and I are arguing about something my default setting is where you write number one: that's my default setting. Not where am I wrong right and you're wrong, so I'm going to look and approve Aren't you want to know where
The common ground is. That's what that's what I want to have. I find that I recently had. Arclight senior position was complaining, that right, you run in a project and they were complaining about, and this is just classic you're really hard when you're leading up a bunch chiefs too many nothing. It's right what divers got their own ideas notice. My frost, If you could. Actually I got some quarter down here like they want. run things themselves. They think very charge right. So if I say it with that voice, its tonnes totally negative. If I say that not everyone has their own ideas, like we're gonna bunch of people in the team that have ideas about stuff, I'm overjoyed or everybody wants to run things. Is that exactly what we want? We literally say when we talk about decentralized. Madame means everybody leads, that's what we want and now work
complaining that everybody wants months. If I got people maintain, they want to run things. I am jumping for joy. That's my goal! I thought they were in charge. No oh they'll think their choice. Yes, praise be to the gods of business, because now got a bunch of people that actually want to be in charge? They push back on everything good. what about face. That's one of the things that Karl hack worth about. The draft is ever needed, have these, who actually know everyone didn't hit. The draft is, what are you like about the draft. Is he liked about the draft these they pushed back They called out his dumb ideas. D is because they weren't gettin, promoted they being care that we are now the army, and you know what Where was two hundred and fourteen more days or one hundred seventy two more days or ninety more days, I don't give a shit about army so they when he was coming up with a dumb plan that, like hey, colonel, that's a dumb plan, we shouldn't do that he's! Ok, thank you!
he needs a shot up, and you I told you said: oh these guys might a point, so I want my people to push back that's, actually look, I'm looking forward to that's what we wanted this thing off like if you're getting port, if you're not getting you pushed back you're wrong. So I want people to push back. I want them to come up with ideas and run with them, and I want them to take charge. That's exam. We want, I want, if you, in a situation where people don't and here's another piece of corporate jargon or leadership, jargon if people don't get on board, if people get on board, no matter how hard you explain, things like I said the chance that every person on your team- is a cop headed in any mugen right. there's a chance of that reference. Elf. Thank you. There
chance that everyone is smooth brained and they don't understand because they're all stupid, you have whole team of peace, that do this for living that make money. That word, educated in whatever subject this is, but there are there I don't get it When that happens, when people are on board, I recommend you check your explanation. Effort meter because it's probably pinned in the red and your plan isn't as good as you think it is, and your unexplained clearly and you're, not listening to what they say so take a step back and listen to what they have to say, and that is my recommendation and I think it will make your life much easier. probably good place to stop anything else. If what I miss, I like it or not with kids. Well, I was
I'm always taken note when you're writing. I wrote down counter to divide summer, some notes to myself of things and I'm thinking about as you're talking it over the counter intuitive nature of leadership and and everybody loves, Everybody loves a story about how hard you worked to get something done. It's cool story. I worked so hard, but I couldn't help it The entire time is something you have heard. You say it if you're so smart if you're so smart? Why interview winning more. If if plane is so good, if your ideas are so good, why is it so hard for you to convince anybody else, meaning if europe hang out so much effort and yeah, I guess by your mouth? point: zero, zero, zero, zero one percent of the time it actually is them fair, and then, the divers man, the hall. I am working the more I need to stop what I'm doing and that counter.
You look upon it like it is. Actually is as good as you think they shouldn't be this hard and how powerful the ego that that voice convincing you end yeah go harder, Sylvia, the counter to the nature of that of of what we do, Inclined to do when we can to take us to bang like David, your plane, so brilliant Why does anybody else understanding why working so hard to convince them? Maybe it's not not so brilliant, there's a direct correlation of jujitsu, where, you're trying to get this move on someone and it's you have to so what you have to use so much strength and power to make it work, you're, not doing it right: when you're doing you're sweeping a good thing that I do other truckers due to, but like let sam sweeping you which the movement that takes let's say, two and a half to three seconds and I'll.
While I'm doing it I'll say: ok, as you can see right now, I'm doing the sweep Davis falling over and yet my voice is not moving. I'm not straining and now you're on your back, opposed to? Like ok, now watch me: do this very yo, it worked right. I had to use all their strength, I'm doing wrong. I'm missing something it's the same effort made her best be effort meaningless, pegged, which means you're not doing what it means is not going to work against a stronger person for sure and that's we're doing we're trying to force or ideas down the town, people if these are good. They shouldn't really need to get forced so very brutal, good place to stop. If you're gonna dig deeper into the stuff, you can join Dave me life J, p, Jamie, Steve. Cody sean human inquiries Carlos recalling requiring smoking, we gotta not to believe we whole team of people this. What we do
should carry academy if your worship dot com. If you've got questions you want to go, you will come on there and ask we also. Have we just put up some? recourse. Is our mission at echelon front is to teach them lessons to as many people as we can and, We just put up a couple free courses: extreme ownership, dot com will differ of course, is You and I did the first course the frame extreme ownership and its pre, pragmatic, hey. How do I take ownership in time? situations. Literally. What words do I say? How do I set this up? So we go through that and then jamie- and I did, of course, which is called the barriers extreme ownership, which there is a lot that's why lotta people have a hard time with a lot of people, hard time taking ownership and they don't they can't become those barriers and therefore, if you can't take extreme ownership of what's going on your world you're not going to improve anything because not your fault, it's someone else's fault. It's the markets for
It's the weather's fault. It's your employee's fault! It's your boss's fault! It's your wife's fault that your husband's fault, the kids, but it's everyone's fault, but yours does nothing. You can do different now, not the way it works. come those barriers go check out this course here's to extreme ownership, extreme ownership, dot com, and then we have a bunch of other courses on theirs. We'll get out assessment to that. anyways, go to check it out, actually more supply com. If you want leadership, and inside your organization, com, check out our leadership, consultancy, echelon, front dot, com. I have also written a bunch of books about leadership, extreme ownership, dichotomy, leadership, leadership, trudging tactics or of the code. his wealth got some other partners just put up to new, where you could free you or you could buy us serbia and check that I'll check that uncle jocko, podcast and jacqueline raveling, and if you want to support any of these broadcasts, you can get some gear
Jack restored our com or do you as a dot com or you can get some fuel for your system? Talk of your backup and thanks for listening to the de brief now go led this dave and jacko out.
Transcript generated on 2023-02-09.