This is the Jacko Debrief, podcast episode, five with Dave, Burke and me Jocker, willing, Dave let's be brief. What are you got? Got someone that just got promoted into a key position in a big company she's now running operations, first theme, ever to hold this position on this company EAST Coast coming long been been around for a long time and everybody in this position for has been a man could cover me, dominated organizational a bit and she's, stepped over this role. She's awesome she is totally ready for this job and he's getting some feedback from from folks. Can I help her prep her how she's they introduce yourself? How do you get announce yourself to the team on the new operations. This is who I am and

A lot of the advice she's been getting is hate. You gotta go in their heart, he kind gotta come in there and I think the phrase it there are using it you gotta, run out your presence with authority. You kick I'll, timid meagre you that come in strong and let them know that Europe run this department and that you make this happen. So she calls me like hey: I've got this thing coming up. This is the advice I'm getting. And she's she's worse, like I don't. I understand what they're saying, but I'm not sure if that's right and course microsecond I had actually, I think your instincts or on on mark, I I think this is necessarily good advice. Now. Look advice that she's getting its common for good place that they're trying to get her they're gonna set her up to be successful and they understand that and their right. She can't come in meagre and me

and frail and like all I'm not sure. This is right for me, but here I am said, but you don't need to announce your presence with authority, as it is a matter of fact. Listen if you dont want to? U dont, you do not yourself at all. There is little! There's a literal announced that they will not do this company in the form of a memo that said announcement. New head of operations is this person. So if you don't want to announce yourself at all you don't you because it's already happened support. What you really should think about is what are your expectations for role for you in this role. So one of the things that you think that you need to do in this role. this isn't. What are you tell me what you're expectation What are the things you're thinking about? While I want the team to do well. I want to give them the things that they need and want to help them

and given the resources and the tools and the journey they need, so they can be success. When we can, I went down this list of all the things that she felt was her job and, as you can pride, tell from this list, she's a trooper she's in the game. She understands it and, of course like With- The three point, nine percent of every question that it gets asked it's right in leadership, charging taxes, verses, hey. What do you do one day, one! You don't need walk and say, listen up, I'm in charge now, here? Are my expectations for you here is what I want you to do, just walk in tell them he listen. I am honoured to be in this role I am thrilled to have this opportunity. I care about this team and I want to help this team be successful. My expectations that I'll do whatever it takes for us to be successful. When did the role play? Save you just come in your opening speeches, thirty seconds long and that's all you say,

you think they're going to react. She's, equal they'll probably be fine with it as a good, then why don't you just do you think you should and it's not that advice was bad in the sense of like they're trying to set up to fail, but how do you think it's going to come across if you re, listen up I may not be the person you thought was, can be the job, but I am you. I had some ideas how things used to be or who should be in here, but I'm in charge now and they sat and its when you're on that detached per second, unless so obvious, when he, when you see that again you don't want to go in there be a pushover. Us it, but the opportune Frida show who you are as a leader, your opportune. to really reveal what kind of leader you are and what they can expect from you I come from. This speech is a matter of fact speech. Probably they may even bill that memorable. You dont need to make it a big deal. You enough time are going to get

sound with leadership issues you have to get engaged to get involved in and not weaken. This see what kind of leader you are so open up a book refresh that a little bit do not an actress presence authority come in and let them know what you expect. An expectation is that you're here to help anyone I'm we clearly when you get in a situation like the Essen, and you know, what's going on with it many, but for someone, that's not that so it doesn't understand that the whole concept we work with companies, so you have an understanding of what the situation is on the ground that she's going into, which mean that you know that she's going into a functional team right, not a bad team, not a peg team that were there firing the leader because everything's all jacked up those are different scenarios, and- and those are also scenarios that I talk about leadership, tragic tactics and even in those scenarios, does that mean that you roll in there and you come off the top ropes? Not

actually not off the top ropes unless, unless you ve got some catastrophic morale or catastrophic ethical issues. Then it might call for you, no sir, some heavy hitting coming out of the gate. So so there's that There's, but you have a team, a functional team or how do you take over national team yeah! You you go! You you go too far. Page one fifty seven of leaders are charging tactics and you follow those those guidelines, when it comes to. here's an issue where makes me a little nervous and probably this primate, her nerves to hay. here's. What you better do like if somebody give if I was getting ready, go meet my team for the first time it's Missis Hales nears, what's going on, you better do this. That would start to make, the question what like we second. If you're needing to tell me how to introduce myself to the deem this, does

you must not have a lot of confidence and what's going on here and you must be worried and end. You must see me as weaken, so so that I'm sure that starts to creep into someone's. Had I was doing my first interviews for the officer, Canada programme that I went into it. navy, and so you know I was talking to the executive officer at the time of one and who are you. He was up this officer review Board also review board rat. Would go in and meet with these three or four officers. Neared asked me much questions and, and they would, my recommendation, based on how it responded and up I wasn't really nervous anything, but you know he just as a good leader. He said: hey, let's talk about the the thing about to go to like our universal might? Not really. He goes. Ok. Well, good. He goes check this out when you go in there, there's no reason to be nervous because you're in there for a reason,

in their because you ve been recommended to get this position, and so you're in there, because your proof small. When you are smart in you, up with good answers, and you show me your potential that that's why you're gonna. So when you there are essentially what he said was in this is really good advice. The wool caviar when you go in there. He said be yourself right, which essentially what you said to this woman? Hey, what would you What do you think you should do? And you said you like it. You should be yourself so yeah. We also find the caviars listen you're going into an environment. You are going to people national. This is why I say: there's a little caviar, because being yourself, you have to use at least some level of caution, because you might be a very nice person, you

can err on the side of being too nice You can err on the side of being too hard what I recommend is you err on the side of being a little bit too hard this mean come off the top robes now, but it is much easier to to start the tight leash and give it and gifts as people earn trust and what not then it is to go in there with a bunch of slack and then all of a sudden you ve gotta, jerked the chain and an end. Now, that's a problem, so air on this, I mean we joke about all time, Lave jokes about all design, because when you know when he came in the task, it approves righted smiled in six weeks and incorrect worth didn't smiled anyone for the first month, and so why is its airing on the side of being professional its airing on the side of being with the right word hard,

bag is being professional. Err on the side of being professional, not overly friendly, because overly friendly is hard to judge the way people respond to that people, Michael o cool. She want to be our friend and she that's that's why it's gonna be cool and we have to listen to her so err on the side of being professional. The last thing I had was. and now this is the counter to being too hard the counter to being you heart is why I would you need to come in there and be all authoritative whilst because insecure about people, thinking that you're, a good leader, wit, when you go in and you act all authoritative everyone thinks they don't think wow. that person's really are for data of what they think. Is there not very confident that leadership skills and that's why they're trying to her brow beat us with their rank. So you think,

coming across one way, be by being hyper authoritative, but what you really do, what you're really doing is putting yourself on being on report for being insecure about your leadership so we want to be balanced right. We want air towards being professional. We want air with enough confidence in a forty that people go okay, we get it. but we don't want to go to a point where people go. Oh in. Cure, got it and don't underestimate. As such, if they know you how easy it is, for them to see what you're doing you only need like war oh man, this is its easy for them to see if your overshooting the mark by design? So just like? I mean you need be yourself, be authentic. I totally what you What about that and using the examples of Hamas to come, and I'm not, I'm remit clearly aiming to hold the line and in those These are things that are important in, and this is the way we're gonna be an. I can draw back that's much easier than China to tighten up the slack in the beginning.

But if you overshoot the mark, they're gonna seed, a mile away and it's it's, it's that claims I perspective is what are they gonna see we're so what you're, seeing it if you're detached? Nothing is very obvious. How clear it's gonna be that your hyper insecure, if you walk in and out of the blue, like while I was there really aggressive introductions be shock. Women working together for four years order that come from the problem with everything that we're saying right now, everything that we're saying right now is gonna edged someone towards completely over thinking this Which is why you look you you're, indisposition, you're, being promoted, you're being put in that position of leadership, because people have seen the way you performed. They trust you so be yourself at be yourself and then add, six per cent of profit journalism action oppression. Wasn't any old dial it right in there was parties at the conversation that we had with took about. Like ninety seconds you know

what would we when we talk in the forest, they all that's great, I just want to give or take on any was it like. You said we We have talked we much more and more longer than when than we did because it they don't ever think the spear self think about. What's important, you announced that it'll come in Lebanon which go on and then move on from there, and that was Kennedy, the entire they did you d, briefer or totally, and I mean all good Is it well two things one? Yes, it was all got into the beauty that she was like it was. She said it was event. The start, of course, await an that's what we're type I. This is not this thing. If people there, your introduction speech. Don't if you're they can command of a battalion or brigade or, if you're, taking commanded, to see the speeches, those think they're not important what This is what you are, who you are during the entire time and we create these things in mind. Like I, gotta hit the speech out of the park, you like some big thing. Ask me how many seal introduction speeches, I remember in my twenty three or career

If you feel the need go in there and make a big statement. What part of your brain do? Is feeling that deed, the little Then go to regard self heads up for that. I have a might be brief term, I think this is my first debrief I'll do look, we did Called me a battlefield as a pilot course we re are taking people to battlefields across the country and at some point across the world and the first one that we did was it the battle of Gettysburg, the civil war actually do a party cast to go into some of it to go more detail on that battle, lessons learnt leadership, etc, but walk when I got done with it, I had my notebook, and so you know there was a boy I was there leaf. Was there my shoulder Steve warmer? Their Jason was there

Jamie was there and then a bunch of quite so it it was, What are we were all kind of checking out see what the deal was, but, as I went through it and I got down, took my notebook and I sent you a bunch of words, basically to say: hey, here's some stuff too brief you on so. Beat because and the reason is look there was a bunch of things that were kind of look. extreme ownership laws, combat leadership, stretching tactic stuff, that there is no reason for me to send you a text and say: hey: here's, here's something! something. Here's here's here's an anomaly that I I may not have fought through or and motionless. boil down to me thinking. You know what I ray. Explain this to everyone, and and people said: oh yeah, ok got it so here's a couple fix. The first thing that I sent you was implied intent implied in touch

We ve all heard of commanders and tat. We all know what that is. Commanders intent is hey. This is what we're doing in this is why we're doing And again I'll go into some of the details about why this came up in the battle of Gettysburg queen the various generals that were therefrom, Robert E Lee his suborn generals and so I will absolutely get into that stuff. But so this idea of implied intent. It's this look Tell you hate, Dave, the intent of this operation is for you to secure this mountain top, so that we can then push forward with cover from I got so. If I tell you all that right, it's very obvious that the creators intent when I realized something that I realized that I've never put into words before until I was talking through this and explaining

that, when you're in charge, you have not just your commanders, intent that you give verbally, but you also have an implied intent. That is the nature of your very being. and I realize that So much of my commanders, intent throughout my entire career, was based on imply intent by knowing me You knew that this is what I would want. I knew what you expect it. Yes actually happened at a front and it was Jamie and Jan, and in and the rest of the team during a master and they were going. incredibly psycho to test every

thing and make sure that the line was gonna be through as quickly as possible, make sure that registrations would go through and peep makes your people want waiting in line and make sure that the the things that need to be handed out we're in the right place the right time and that the air thing was going to be perfect and never pulled them aside? I actually did it after. I did during the deeper. If I said you know what Jean, me, you and your team realized. Never I never said to them, but here's the deal, as I said Jim after the fact. Is it listen? If this event, is disorganized and people have wait line and people are confused about where they're going in. There is no one to check them in and if all those things happen and people are killed, and paying money to aid leadership a vent and we can't even execute the leadership events movie? I want my money back immediately

Jamie never had to ask me hey, should we shall we? Should I hired an extra two people to make sure that the launch and ask me that the IMF in turn, was this better, be the best thing ever on the battlefield? Hey when it came time for life to either closely. and destroy the enemy or you know maybe leave a situation to avoid contact. He knew Seth knew the guy knew what the implied intent was. Look, if there's guys and we have an opportunity for them that we do so. There is an important. Part about implied intent. So do you see what I'm coming from the owner commentary on that? Yet it when I was writing down as thinking? Is it let me know what I should do without you ever tell me what to do, because I know you well enough, as my leader as my boss is whatever I know, Would you want so

What to do when you're out around the tell me then I also wanted to go hang on. Let me go Jack when serious thinking here, I don't have to do that when there is no time to do that. Another. For example, was we were read: desert warfare training in the beginning of our work up in task in a brutal and guys we had a night off and normally guys, never night off. They go drinking in town and have a good time. They come back and no one even asked me cause the implied intent was we're here to train that's most born thing in the world, so so that one of employee, in ten years part two. If I'm sending you an operation or on a mission and my implied intent is not very But for this situation I better be dead. I am sure to explicitly. tell you that my implied intent oh I'd better, make it perfectly clear what is happening. So if I'm always telling you hey, you know what Dave

If my pride and ten is always looked, you know me, you know my grass, if you know, if we get a fire fight on the battlefield, we better take the fight to the end. We take them out, destroy that's what we do with what we train that we go and work up. You done twenty twenty five. Thirty missions, like that with that attitude, now the sudden we get put into a different AOL and We have a very sensitive politician, that's there and they started to assemble some coalition supporting troops, and the last thing we want to do is cause collateral damage or have any kind of civilian casualties. when we're going out before you go. I say: hey Dave, here's. What's going on I know normally we are default. Aggressive tonight actually wants you to be defined passive. I want this security and safety of the populace Emmy infrastructure to be the number one thing that you think about. That is

infinitely more important tonight been closing within destroying the enemy, so that's it. Have implied intent and we'd better know what that implied, intent is, and if you're going to go against that implied intent, you better, be you better make it explicitly clear, yeah that expense and I think of how I have always been as a subordinate when I have worked for other people throughout my career, one of the things I try to discover very early on about my leadership, is what that implied. Tent was intent was, and that and be really really strong. If I'm working for you, I am ordinary. I note your blood and is that is the strongest thing in my mind that guide my decisions for decentralized command, so we're gonna go do anything? That's gonna be different unemployment in Europe almost go out to Brazil. Listen, I what you would do in this situation and I'm telling you why you're not gonna do what you can do it, and why, because that implied tat

for me, that is the most powerful force that I had as a supporting leaders. What would my boss want me to do here is make a giant do that. So You saying you gotta go out your way to make it clear to them. That rings very truth. Make us as a subordinate My leadership in TAT was something sought to understood early on and really understand, because a lot to go, do what I was supposed to do when they weren't around and do a good job interesting, this has had no name before I'm naming it now implied. Intent now this links very closely to the next point. I want to bring up, which is- and I talking about this, but I just want to. I just want to tie these two things together. It's decentralized command and culture, so these lies commanding culture. Look is a very easy connection to make, and it's a very similar to what we just said you have implied intended. Then we have from that in. intent, you start to develop a culture as an organisation and if our core sure, as an organization is default aggressive there.

And I know that you can Decisions based on that culture, so culture inside of an organization is like. The highest form of D. Centralized command and then you can marry that up with another word culture and values. So if your culture and your values are strong, then p in your chain of command be able to make ninety nine percent of decisions joy Knowing the coach, and the values you add, some implied intent that, in its ninety nine point, nine percent you tell them why they're doing what they're doing framers aren't they can make it. You never needed talked him again. So just in nice, that values and culture is the highest form of decentralized command and if you haven't instilled value in culture into your team and team doesn't know what you're implied intent. Is

and the thing is this thing like I've? Never never use that word but we ve all seen it right, but now, hopefully, people can become conscious about what submitted, if you workin for freakin chastity polar like you did you hear anything else, you will need to be told anything. There needs to be no briefs the he doesn't need to say a word, the plied intent. Is there we our going on general patent, same thing, what's the implied a tent in private and as we are not digging- and we are going forward That's what we're doing so. If you're not gonna, do that. You need to pull them back, but also as a leader think about what you're implied intent is and then take that implied intent capture. It write it down simple it and then distributed and guess what you have you ve got a culture. You ve got values that are the deck create your culture, which then become the backbone of decentralized command inside your organization.

The connection between cold decentralized command at a simple as you made that sound an end. As I hear it, it's so We were. The connection. Is the last time you said it when we were taught think about it. I had not thought Those terms, though, so If you're listening your thing about eight, why my creating values, my organization, why my describing what these things are, decentralized community. What all the leaders walk leaders? decentralized command. They Oh, that's the end. They say they want to get you with their team costs, baby we're, there's a million reasons, why decentralized man as a goal, but if you dont really about the connection from culture that it's part of decentralized command. You can miss that in your mind and wondered. Do these exercise. Where you try to capture a, these vision in writing down the things that differ. The culture, if you're not me in that connection, the decentralized command meaning you realizing that those things or what is gonna work

your people to do what they should do in your not around you're gonna, Miss something and we you made the connection. It was even for me alive alike, like wow. That's it and to say that, like. Why I'm doing this as it is an as that were creating these things cause. I want you all to know what to do that. s interests of this team when I'm not there and make that connection grouping you military me to one step for once, one further for deeper. Check this out when someone on your team does something- That was wrong. That didn't make Since then, you can understand why all you have to do is start to deconstruct that decision and you're gonna get to a place where there is no guidance where there's no values, where there's no there's no understanding of the. Why so You see people in your organization.

that are doing the wrong thing, it pulpit Pull the string on that yeah you're find out why it's your fault, because you haven't given them the implied intent, you haven't them, given them creators intent, you haven't, given them values and the culture, That will drive them to write, make the right decisions. So how do you fix it? You start to put those in place. That's what you do all right. I guess we'll be one more at ease. There is disagreements amongst the leadership at the Battle of Gettysburg, and there are often disagreements in the way that we get things done. We hear a lot and I've is quote actually leaf quoted me during. these debriefs at one of the things that I used to say, was looked

you look Dave if you and I, and on the boss on Europe and where they have an argument about how do in operation and finally say: listen Jacko, you eat we'll, do it my way so get on board? In those start, you don't start planning your cheers, this, I have to tell the young seals when you walk out of that room you execute admission as if it was your own k and Leif quota me on that, which is a legitimate quote. Here's the thing and and again. This is for leadership, trudging tactics. So it's even like it's that big a deal, but so they talk about the two generals generally in general, Longstreet General, was generally and Jen She was his one of his immediate subordinate support, its quick. He called his war horse, meaning they had a good relationship.

general long? She did not want to execute what General Lee S plan was, and so. What Leif said was: listen when you, If so, what he did was and he walked out of the tent with them. and your journalism is what we're doing, general luxury walked out of the planned, walked in the tent. and then he waited and hesitated and wait for me. Hours and didn't execute and they had to send a bunch people like hey, what's going on you're going to do this and find me he did it dragging his feet. The whole time in life was like hey This is why, when you leave you executed as your own right. And then I forget who asked a question: we have you want the clients, but and ass I stood there was thinking through this. They were talking and talking- and I said, let me say something here:. If you don't agree with that plan? Don't leave the tent? You don't leave the tent.

until Look Dave. If you have a plan that so good and you Can't convinced me of it, we a problem broke, especially once I've remove my ego one thousand three hundred and one that remove my eagle one, stop detach from my emotions. Once I've seen your perspective off the table, doing the right things over here to try and you still can't get me there. We got a real freaking problem. Not leaving the tent. not leaving the ten. Now that's the goal, now look once you get beyond that. There's a bunch of different ways, we can go there. You know you we'd, go leadership, charging tactics where a if you say: hey, jock or shut up and do it now? What is what do I do? I can say you can fire me I give up all my influence, your brain it s meant that these are all spelled out. Major tragedy is, I can say, ok boss, I gotta do the best. I can I go out. the best I can and I mitigate risk as much as possible. Trying take it a team try and execute the plan, but maybe like is it mitigate risk. The story,

in Vietnam were seals I've, got work to do things that they did not think was good missions, and so they said you know what you're ok cool, We do want to do that boss in no shut up and do it the guys go, ok, cool they walk out. I the wire. They go hundred meters into the jungle they set up. A perimeter lay sit there for the night, they come back, hey, we didn't run anything same thing: Dick winters in Banda brothers oh, you want to do another. One of those reconnaissant is where we just bought the guy last night and the wars going to be over in any day now: okay, Oh, no, I don't think it's a good idea, no shut up, and Ok, I gotta boss go down to the seller and drink wine. So that's a homo But all those all those. All those subsequent decisions are based on the primary thing, which is don't leave the tent until you ve got to a point where you know you ve give com

We exercised all the demons of the conversation, because the chances that you and I on the same team. Working for the same company with the same goals which we want to make money. We want to support our clients. We were all these or where a war, we want to kill the bad guys. We want to take objectively, you and I are aligned, at some level we have to be aligned and if we can't come too, clues about what is the right thing to do, I'm not gonna leave it at that. The first part of it. If you leave the ten you better figure out, which one of US courses of action you're going to take, do you think the best mobility aiming to mitigate the risk as much. Second like there's a bunch of things have happened, but it starts with If we don't agree, I'm not me, The tent wrote down at you started as I just wouldn't Emma Little Margin wrote an ego cause, I'm thinking put myself in that situation. So

I'm Longstreet Yearly we're in the tent we're doing this thing and we ve been women doing the thing. I see you and have been doing this thing at national front format as long as they probably were. You know get three four years ago, my belt here. So now, situation. Jocker guest the big picture brief, I'm sooner MIKE, that actually. That seems wrong already right away. That's a very low probability I'm not saying it's not possible, like that's immediate red flag, when I wrote an ego, I was thinkin, myself is for I leave the tent. This is Let me try to convince you that your plan is wrong. It site the IMF for the option of hay job I'm still missing something: I'm not understanding this and the vote and it's not always, there's always a cabinet, but the likely issue, isn't there your plan is bad if that are missing something about what you want but any goods are not there change your mind on. There are really figure out what I doing wrongs, I can't leave the tent until

I actually get past what I dont understand. Now there may be some times and I got it. I have to come up with wait at maneuver around what you're doing too, but the likely if we are this line and you kind of covered a lot of what I was going to say- which is I mean, about the situation here This is you and I, after three and a half years, with all the same goals, objectives and and and all the sudden I can't get past What you're asking me to do? Ok, really going on here and more than likely what's going on, is credit answer my mind, that's different yours and I want to begin and gets and and and get you to see it my way, I I can't leave the tenant. actually understand what you are saying and that to me much more like over problem that it's me instead of you, and I said I take that broke, and you see me take airport you're, actually more likely to go and hang on. Hang on. You keep pushing, Let me see if I'd really understand this myself and if that is what I wrote down, is thinking of. What's going on,

the biggest problem for me in that ten. It's going be me. I have this goal when I'm in a disagreement with somebody And the shocks people design, but when disagree with Dave. My goal is, understand why Davis right now I'm wrong. It's not to win the argument. If it's it's, not even the women, it's like. How am I wrong right now and how can they be right? My goal is to have Davy right and if you got that approach disarms your ego it. My ego is actually disarmed, because I'm trying to prove that you are right and that allows and allows the actual problems that were facing to rise to the surface. So we can come up with a good solution what we always try, allegedly keep this podcast a little shorter. So let's try and do that tonight and good points. Stop. If you want to dig deeper into all these aspects of leadership in any arena, you wanna hear

Ass in the rest of the echelon front team. Talking about these things, answering questions, but if you want to ask a question goody, if online dark come join, one our live, webinar cars that are happening all the time. Most of them doc you about it. That's what we do We saw problems through leadership if you want leadership, guidance inside your organization, common check out, bishop consultancy at echelon, front dot com have also written a bunch of books on the subject leadership, extreme ownership, dichotomy, leaderships leadership. Charging tactics got some other progress, Jackal broadcast Jacko unravelling, grounded in the warrior could podcast,

you want to support any of these podcast, including this one. You can get some gear from Jocko store, dot com or from origin main dot com. That's it for tonight, thanks for listening to the debrief, now go lead into Dave and Jocko out so, we could do one more and get through the last of those do these. Are there some mean that was fun. I don't know how the I assume that the conversation sounds of the way think it sounds of my head, but because I'm hearing this for the first time, China think about what you're saying those two the implied, intent and then don't leave the tent m. In those two words that was cool, then I was really really good outlined in my home

wrap manders. Ten, more companies more things on here that so Dude Alma a moment, that was, I dont know if need remind like that three, because I did one and you did too. If that's like three of our Format is three per podcast because remember, I did the first one of this podcast here. But all this is our park us renewed over yeah. Now I'm saying, like you said you weren't you one more. I don't know if you want to do a whole nother podcast, one more deeply forecasts with these other things. If we can get through not not all I would say that they should be shorter, do What does it number sex? Is this number six? This would be six. He wriggled hang on. when you say they should be shorter, you mean like we should talk at these topics, like me, The things we know I'm saying these. These are

not as as as big as the first copyright saying we should have been shorter, you're saying: oh, these should be shorter, because these are like. I cannot. Quite you you won't be like. Oh, I won't have to explained, is marcher it'll, be like oh yeah. I totally get up com, Say what you mean now by they should be shorter, not those would have been shorter using the cuts of these topics These should be a bit quicker to get through the should be still, doesn t relate till? I look at these things. It was something like parole wicked. I mean I've not apply, does not talk, because I could probably talk about this next one for like an hour of your due to what are we doing sea along the Jews? Three too,

the one this is the Jacko Debrief, podcast episode, six with Dave, Burke and me Jocker, willing so day we have more debriefing to do. We didn't get through my gun, he's Burg, debriefs that I had for you so If you have a most logical back to episode five, but moving? to the sum of the things that I had my listed, I texted to you and then I got some debrief points for you, so the next one I wanted to cover is Again, this is something that in leadership, tragic tactics and an eye. I believe it's fair Well spelled out, and I've been briefings a lot lately in the current and there were in its two thousand twenty right now, there's a there's, a virus that car Lee seems like ay ay. It's a world a world in

acting virus, and so we ve all been dealing with an effect been helping. People make decisions, an end maneuver their companies and one of the things that I've been talking a lot about is iterative decision making, which is a good way to lead in unknown circumstances, and what you do is you basically make a small decision, and then you take a small step in that direction. and what I realised during this gettysburg during this gettysburg battlefield, walk tat. We in discussing the various leadership decisions that were made was there were certain situations where leaders, on the battlefield could have small moves instead of big once and in no case. Did they do that yeah, I'm sure I'll find some of energy, but in the major movements that were made, especially the major mistakes that were made there Was no time where

Someone made a small decision made a small step in that direction, so What I was saying it again: I'm going there almost the entire world with a bunch of people from echelon front. It's me: it's life, it's MIKE's! Really, it's who else is there? the Jason Carter, an Jamie so like we ve got this big crew there and I start talking through one of the things that. could have solved one of the major problems and that is when win win General Longstreet didn't like a plan that generally had come up with any drag, his feet for an extended. At a time and end up in a total disaster- and I said, pay you ever gonna go now. What would you have done? What would you have now? What would you downright either if you're either person? What would you have done any notice I draw line in the sand? I would never do this. I don't agree with it our order and do our farmers went through all these things, and I said ok, here's where I worked on it. With either person If I was generally origin along street, I would have done

iterative decision making and therefore iterative execution, and I think that there is just a gap, and I I want to explain that gap in making is not just making decision? It's the execution of that small decision so Dave if I tell you, hey want you to assault that hill, and you say I don't think that's a good idea and I say well, we need to get it done, and you say what I don't think it's gonna be worth the effort and the casualties that we could take. Case. There's we're out there's a line in the sand either one of us at this point I can say Well, I'll tell you what, why? Don't you move another hundred yards Ford and push push a couple point: men up and what they can see and see if they start taking fires? If there's any cover, you could get in the way there. How does that sound and you go that actually make sense,

or you could also say that to me you know what Jacques I don't know about assaulting that hill, here's one and we start with this- all move a hundred meters closer I'll, send a couple scouts up, we'll see if there's any covered that we could get. If it looks like we are taking fire, I can pull back if we're not take Fire and we find good cover all proceed a little further. That's it. that's it real decision making and it includes iterative execution. You find is that when you make a small decision, and then you take a small step when you make that small step, you learn more When you learn more, you can make a decision on which direction to go now so that, fairly straightforward. The next that. I have. Is that it. Decisions are actually aggressive. You can make aggressive much more aggressive moves when They are small, so

I've been telling a lotta clients that I had a reputation in the Philippines of being very, very decisive. but I was cheating I was cheating because I wouldn't make decisive mass moves I would make many small, removes very rapidly, so if started taking fire I didn't say, want to assault now being I don't even know where we're taking fire from or how many people there are what the situation is. So not going to say everyone assault now. And I'm knockers everyone run away we're taking violent. That's a big decision. Romantic. I don't take dapple that what I say is hate you. People go up to the roof, Dave Dave, Michael roof down in what you say? Everyone thanks. I just made a power decision. There is absolutely no risk we're in a building that we already own. You have cover up on the roof goal. That is being aggressive so it or decisions where some people, where some people might think. Well, that's gonna weak right. What are you doing?

week, you're just gonna ears, you know years taking small steps, I'm taking small steps, baby and that is the best way to be aggressive. Look caviar. Some You have to make a ball decision, that's big! Yes, you do absolutely sure. Happen very seldom. We it Happen very seldom and hopefully doesn't happen at all yet one of the reasons. Why would we you the team we ve been talking about it all decision making so much more real, ITALY is because of what you just described. I rode down the very beginning, I wrote down the word unknown course here arguments and its we all understand that this is kind of a period of unknown. Nobody was playbook for Ok, nobody saw this thing come and so part of the reason why we have been talking about it decision making and said. Ray fast short movements, is how you maneuver in this unknown environment, and it makes sense. what we should be talking about.

the other side of that when you talk about it or of decision making is if you cannot take this whole situation up, let's go back here, we're things were just kind of Germany The thing was was going really well. It was actually there is actually a lot of unknown there, too, and in the thing that complacency creeps anyway, when you think you got the whole situation, the whole way. The way you think you know what's going on, and you start to make these big longer less iter decisions, if you. complacent, even if you think you know everything you ve girls from you. So you know what there's things out there. We don't know all the intel. I've seen this. de Times I've done it through my entire career. Everything is the ways if you keep, that might have been what there's something out there, maybe we don't know you. You can end up doing the exact same decisionmaking process now you would a year ago or a year from now

this idea of iter of decisions is it just because we know there's unnoticed because there's always unknown it. Maybe really obvious now. Entity is its glaringly obvious that we don't know what's going on, sometimes but the truth of the matter is- is that if you really people it's always like and, if you think you ve got this whole thing figured out would go hey Jack I'll! Just take your team, go ten miles down the road and plant the flag on that he'll. If you think you know between here and there, units that yourself He'd, make the same decision, making approach that same. It'll decisionmaking, no matter what situation is avatars. I get there, ain't, no practical, Ki Moon. You can do quickly, but you do not do that. Just because you think you ve got the situation understood as he bent, as I've been explained this to clients. I've been. doing or set up with them I'll, say arm I'll say what wanna do as a leader in this position. Is you wanna take a gas on what

next and then I say I say nobody wants to hear that nobody wants to hear that the leader is taking a guess as to what to do next, but guess what in the situation if you're your leisure position, the number of times it you're gonna, have one hundred percent accurate information, spoon fed you and gonna, be able line up that and come up with a perfect decision is never so if you're in a leadership position. Guess what you are making guesses? That's what you're doing that's? What leaders do? How do we mitigate the risk of the gas? We take a little tiny step. you have to guess so. Dont commit your forces are all your resources, Raul, your assets, to guess committees. Little tiny bit of em, do an assessment to see if it was the right move or not it cost you so little and even that guess, there's nothing wrong with me admitting. As a leader hey, you know, I don't have all the answers here as better fact when gimme those orders go take that hill and I'm thinkin this terrible idea not doing that. Why would a comeback go

Hey that's a terrible idea. What I can do that having to go hey boss, I'd like to hear you're saying: look, I don't have a good recon between here and let me take my time on a push. Mower give me about an hour already you back what you see when it takes its first move assets and scouts did you know my position? I d go aka coordinated happen and I apply the same But, if I come go, this is a terrible idea. We should do this in terms I go out there like, while this is actually really easy. Now a call back like hey. You are right and I gotta. There is no reason not to just say I should not know and the best way for us to know, is whether to go out and start to move in this direction. The other thing I've been telling my clients is after you make, I guess and turns out. Your guess is wrong. What do you do, then? You tell everyone hate, I guess a little bit wrong. I says this wrong. Here's some things are changed. Here's a different view now that we'd now that we see this part of the turkey in this part of the battlefield, ye here's the adjustments gonna make. You have to be humble enough to make adjustments that doesn't make you look really dumb and weak when you get something wrong and it goes back goes back to you know your perspective, your ego,

being able to detach, because everybody knows that if I stand up and say listen, I know we're meet more resistance and we thought we were going forward. Anyways ever some Ngos, you're freaking. Eighty crazy- are right. Next, the last one of these debrief podcast that we did. We are talking a lot about intent, and implied intent, meaning just through my added You know what I want then there's act, verbal or written commanders and ten here's. What I want you to do, here's my overall intent and then there culture and there's values, and you stack all these things together. and we have. We should have a situation that, if you take my my verbal commanders and ten or my written commanders intently cave, this is what I want to do. The imply, intent- the values, the culture you should be able to make ninety nine point. Nine percent of decisions without

having to talk to me at all. If you workin for me, that's the way it should be. How do I know that Well, here's a here's, a little drill that I can run through with you to see if you understand these various forms of my intent and that is discussing contingencies, because if I say hey Dave what will you do if you get into an enemy contact before you get to the target. and you say if we take enemy contact, we're goin for Otto had we're going to assault from wherever we are? And what Actually wanted you to do was not reveal your position. Well guess what? obviously not explained any level of these intense to you so if you're in a leadership position- and you are

understand. If people look at and if I say eight Dave the commanders intent for tonight you get in and out without being compromised and you say, got it boss, like ok red back to me, what the intent is new say it's getting not without being compromised like a cool got, it This only means that you could repeat the words that I said then is it ok, let me run through some scenarios: here's a contingency, you roll up, you get your vehicles and all of a sudden there stars barking and light start coming on inside the village. What are you gonna do and you like she the dog s all right, so that something it's really simple. It's a really simple thing, but if you talk through tendencies with people you find out what their thinking and it reveals whether they understand your intent or not as so. We I wouldn't rehearse into you sent me this text last week and of my cool wonder what this is and we're talking about it now and in his eye. As I read this boy,

contingencies- reveal understanding of your intend. It took me a minute to cannot understand the context as measure describing it and then seething always was I put myself in a position of being a subordinate and everybody should understand- and this is true for you- you and I, despite the fact that we ve commanded teams and we ve always also been suborners. I've been a subordinate, my entire career, I was never not without a boss in the military, so the role of being a subordinate into something I'm very familiar with? Even when I was a commander, I was a subordinate to some other senior commander, the just hey, what would you do here? Sometimes one like I bought would ask me that I would feel like is questioning what it is questioning me, but really what boss is doing there is actually evaluating how good of a job. He has done to prepare

me to handle, which he actually knows. It can happen, which is a contingency contingencies, always happen. Having ever happens away, you plan and, as we are witnessing hey, ok, Jacko, what with this scenario. You got my intent, but this happens. We're going to do that, me testing, you that's me testing me have I Spain myself well, and so when I as your explaining picturing again. You know what how many times that I hear my boss. Only through continuous here, I'm thinking there was wrong with this guy was he asked? Can we always questions questioning whether I know what I do? I know what I'm doing so, no he's actually measuring hymns. How did he explained it wants us to set me up to be successful when he full well, there are gonna be problems as I go. Execute. Guess he knows without they're waiting for me the understanding. The ten I mean. How critical is that that I know you're intent as a leader, so I can do something in real time and get it right, The universe is interesting. I had this conversation with Jamie the other day and you Jamie

then participating more and more and answer questions and stuff. It's because you know Jack, I'm starting to feel. Like I I'm doing a better job answer, questions on. Why can't you knock it out of the park? and she says yeah. You know I'm just turn of I'm just kind of answering the way. I would answer a client when they asked me a question and and of course I know I make everyone nervous you, like everyone wants to say the right thing she kind of alluded to that she's, like you know, sometimes when I know you're on on the or mine, and I know that if I say something I want to get it right and it makes me trip up I don't want to do that anymore. I go Jamie trust me nay nail these questions and and I told her look this used to happen when I was running training for the seals. You'd get these young seal leaders, and I put it, some pressure situation, and I would be looking at them, and They would do something really stupid and I go Why did you do that? They like

You want me to be aggressive, or I thought you'd want native whenever I thought you want me to take the high ground right that and I go bro do what you think. I want you to do not try to interpret what you think I might once you do. You think you should do right. Then. that's what you need to do. So that's another thing that walking through contingencies reveals look, I don't want someone in the field that is gonna, be a decision based on what they. Think I might want them to do if I was there? I want them to actually do what makes sense in that situation so, let's go through some contingency, so we can remove that and then truly understand if they know what the intent is and again we now we ve got more poor levels of intent to fine, comprehend and nation, we see they're all lined, but they are

had a different spectre spectrum and they're all important and by the way, the of your pen, ready by the way, there's a hierarchy of these intense So if I've told you, you know that hey you're going, you will we. I want you to avoid getting an enemy contact tonight, but something happens where, your troops are in danger here right. There is a hierarchy of intense, which we actually, need to have understanding of now look most of time there are locked. I mean I want you to come with me now what you, though, that most of the time their aligned, but there can be nuanced scenarios where leaders, gonna have to say look. I know the intent that Jacko told me was Two was too

make sure we make money on this deal, but right now the only way we make money on this deal. By me growing over this client I know there is a hierarchy of intense here and I that are not supposed to do that so not only do we have multiple intense. This be aligned, but there is a hierarchy that makes that make sets and it's it's If you understand the strategy of european, what you really want us to do in the long run, it makes easier to do that. You use example like this or to which was, you could say, Dave intent is actually don't you We are position. Keep low profile and if there's any risk that I want you to withdraw backup, that's what I want you to do, but times that that might actually me at more risk and the

you know I'm not gonna go hey. We lost you guys, but I followed. Where thought you wanted me to do, which was backup and that's it then you're timers, don't do what you think I want you to do when we first or national front- and you started talking and training us about how to do today- how do we answer questions questions the goal? but you said was I want you to so the question in the way that you actually solve that problem. So if you have a question, you think about what you would do, and if you have the humility to say this is what I do and it turns out that's wrong now. We're a debriefing go hey David. Let me talk you white. Maybe this wouldn't work, and I can learn from that and get better that, but of spending my time, thinking about what you would say, and I know a Jamie's talk about. We No! It's like a jack I wanna give with us, like God, is watching me answer. I can have the humility to just do it I think I should do all actually learn more and get better at it. Trying to calculate would Chukka saint Jacques,

do not make causing problems for me and you actually dont want me doing that anyway, you want do what I think I should do and if it's right innovation and we can debrief and learn from it and get better there's a theirs, a level of detachment reflection that goes on there too, because saying you, here's a classic example. Guys get caught him. Then it's a straight up. What would Jacko do right? What would Jacko do? Well, they have This is why this is so scared. They have their implied intent that they received. Is it possible that the implied intended someone has received from me is not accurate. Yes, salute possible because jockers aggressive and he makes things happen, and so what do I think when I get asked a question. What should I do- and I supported just as a this- sounds like a horrible planet, we're not doing it and the fought as well jock was default aggressive. You know what

you shut up and do it. I told you to do here's what I tell people action Ask yourself if you could picture me doing that actually say, wait, wait, wait a second. If I were to put jack on the situation, and I was saying hey, I don't want to do your playing with your pussy shut up and do what I told you to Actually he wouldn't do that. What would you do he would say? Why do you? What? What is it that you don't like about the plan and you have a different idea, so, there's a whole there's a whole level this comes down to. Is these really Good conversations that you can have based on contingency continues: and how people can act in certain situations and then you take this hierarchy of intent. That were were now expect. turning to the world because it exists and by the way, if implied. Intent is received in an inaccurate, wait, that's a horrible thing and that's. Why need to pay attention to and there's plenty of leaders that dont pay attention to it. They I understand that they dont nobody exists. They ve got there implied in ten that is done

ask me any questions, Ask me questions. Do it? I tell you to do. That's it. That's him intent and they actually some people kind of like that implied you shut you shut up and ask me questions you. I told you to do all right. The next thing this one, should be relatively simple: what winning? looks like to you verses what winning looks like to the troops so. This is again. This is aligned with intent, but. You have to make sure that what winning looks like to me is what winning looks like two. If your work for me naw man would not actually you not working for me, but if you're, on the front lines and I'm the boss, I have to make sure that winning looks the same to both of us, because, If winning to you look by closing a deal and it doesn't matter, if we ever do anything with this view,

your car salesman and your dear. You want to close the deal and make as much money as you possibly can and get that person out the door? You don't care that it's a lemon and its they're gonna complain about it on yelp that wind for you it's a loss for me. So what do I need to do? I need to make sure that winning, for you looks the same as winning for me and if I do a good job of setting up my compensations in the missions in the way we're doing things I can make. That those who are aligned, but often times You see situations where hey the what the front line, troop thinks is winning is not aligned. What the senior leadership thinks willingness to have to be careful- that as I'm thinking about what You're just saying and then think about things you said and before it can a piece you get a lot of conversations. We have one of the

z S ways to make sure that what winning looks like from me some of her and now the big boss, whatever materials and you're fired, goes down your from my guy selling cars or whatever? That scenario was one of the best ways for me as a eager to make sure winning to me and when to Look. The same is you have to care about you more than me to really believe that you being successful is what this is all about, that this team that I'm in charge of a responsible for our task to lead wherever that is in use that so many times and we really have to think about what that means that you, when you as a task unit commander made decisions, and you talk about the challenge of like understanding. That putting your men at risk and knowing what you read, what what really was output the out there for them that you heard about them more than yourself

which is to align them, winning with you winning, then if you actually are in it for you and what kind of what would decide. What how destructive that is in the long run from organization When you as a leader, see ya around six success as the as is kind of like the secret. All that. You really want at the expense of your team, and how simple, it sounds to say, put your people before you and end and military source of of taking care of her people. If you don't actually believe that it's gonna be really hard for winning to be the same for you and for them. Yet we did that podcast not too long ago and that I forget the quote. I wish I could remember off the top my head, but it was something like if you, if, if you provide evidence of you caring, bout your troops, you don't even have to worry about morale,

they will fight will fight. I think it was. I think it was the jacket pocket to forty five and it was provide evidence. Let your people believe that you can show them that you actually move that we are about more at all The problems ticker themselves, Gustavo fight, next thing. there are some really dumb things that happened in the battle of Gettysburg peopled. It's really really dumb things and there's a bunch of reasons? Why there's a bunch of things that could have that mostly being relationships, if, if I ever relationship with you Dave, look if I've relationship with you, I at least have a dumb data. And I can say you know what Dave is gonna these years propensity to do some dumb stuff. I'm gonna keep me

back pocket homage to keep an eye on him, a mockery given the the the did. mission, that's gonna, take a lot of decision making, but if I on our relationship with you, then I dont know how you could be, and there is a chance that you could do things that are so dumb that I really didn't even conceive of a contingency where you could be this stupid. So what you have to do you have to think about the parameters wrapping some. Why parameters around stupidity in situ. And where you don't know, somebody well enough And another, even when you do know, people well the first time you put him in a combat her first and they put him to get put under stress for the first time that there in an unknown others of their situation, where even

someone you know and trust you might need to four Oh some parameters around the most outlandish things that people could do so what that is, this is it. This is actually motors, bright. Listen if Dave does something. If I'm in charge in Dave does something that is so stupid. That is my fault, because I didn't put the prayers and place I didn't know. Well enough, I didn't I didn't. I didn't anticipate this level of stupidity and you know that makes me stupid. So this the ice? You do you start to hear people saying you know what that person did, that I was just absolutely ridiculous. How could you so Don t you remember people going to dump things put some parameters in place to prevent

really dumb things from happening and by the way when they do happen. Ok, you let it happen, go go clean it up. I hate when people do really dumplings echo and the reason I hated, because I know that I screwed up here. I know- that I screwed up here's a question: was it a good move or not? Was that call? a good move or a bad call, and where this comes into play in the battle of Gettysburg and elsewhere, but where it really comes into play, is we want our people to be default aggressive? We want our subordinate leaders to have a biased for action. We want them to step up and make things happened. We won't have decentralized command. All those things are good. Well, guess what gave if you're in the field and I'm in charge, you could show initiative, you could you could maneuver your troops to beyond

the limit of advance. Because you saw an opportunity, or you saw situation that needed to be dealt with immediately and that could cost us the ban, it might have been the wrong move and it cost us the battle. It might have been the right move. And it was us about theirs situations that happened at Gettysburg and their situations that have happened throughout battles throughout history. Their situation that happened in business we're somebody makes a move. Somebody does something it destroyed. The whole business so may makes a gamble. Somebody from who's out, a product that they should it there's just all these things that happen. Was it a good move or not? So you can see you can sit back from a is twenty twenty perspective and say. well, how do we know of something was a good move or not right. How do we know if something was a good move and well what we have to do. Is we have to look at the fundamental

principles that we are operating within and what that so cover move is a good example cover move. You could take that as implied intent from me, If you work for me and you weren't, covering a moving look. I said it to you, but you better freaking, just know it as well cover moves the way. It is this a principle that doesn't change. So if, if you came back to me- If, if you came back and said, hey Jacko, here's what I did this when it was moving. I I move who position where I could better cover for them They were able to move, but then I got flanked and I had to retreat and then they retreated. That's why we had failed. The mission. Was it a good move up? Did you violate cover move nope, you didn't so I can get that and say you know what you think result you wanted. You fail the mission, but at least you didn't violate the principles. View came back and said you know what

Otto I saw an opportunity, I started flanking I lost contact with the element that was supporting us, I got let's just trying to drugs in a good way what really happened. You got target fixated, you moved too far and now all of a sudden you're out of supporting distance, and they can help you to more. Now you can cover move for each other and that's when they got ambushed. And there was no support for them. that's why we took casualties, but I was just being aggressive action. the brow! Violated a principle you violated cover, move so now if we want to stack things up, we get these go back to this idea of implied intent commander. ten values? Culture? We say

all those things up and if we start violating these things now we can look back and we can objective. We say this was a bad move. It didn't support the intent. It did not support the implied in ten didn't support the commanders and ten. All those things are bad. Now, where I have a problem, is I can't count on you. I can't hold you accountable. for understanding my implied intent. If I never talk about it with you right I can. I can be a reason, but unless I turn that implied in ten into a value of culture and any commanders intent. Then it doesn't help me So those are some ways if you about, situations- and you want to debrief your people properly and you say well, do you know Dave? We ve talked out cover move since day, one.

I've? Seen you rehearse it practice it and you got out there and you wondering why? I'm thinking that you made a bad move, because you violated the only principle that I told you never to violate because that's wore out as a leader we ve got, we ve got people they're going to do things that we have to build, explain to them. Why was right, or why was wrong We want initiative and always comes back to decentralize command cause. We want people to have initiative, but so too where this is all going is the parameters that we allow people to operate within right. The parameters that we allow people to operate within. We have to make sure that they understand them goes back to revealing intent through contingencies. All these things stack up any

We want to be able to debrief someone properly and say hey. Here's of why this was a bad move and here's why you can't do it again because it violated this I waited this and by the way, it really to me that I've, given you an implied intent that you didn't understand you thought. I always thought go, and I dont think that and I If that impression? That's my fault, too. Eight when you make a bad move, this absolute I'm not saying it's your fault, but I've gotta be able to explain to you why it was a bad move. So good things to think about when somebody makes a move when they do something and- and you want to explain to them why it was wrong- you have to have you- have to be able to display the them what they ve.

Elated so that you can explain to them in a more clear manner what the violation was and why it can happen again. This one's pretty simple and straightforward yours heroic activities at the Battle of Gettysburg, and can I just got to thinking what is the? How is it we as human beings can look at someone and say that was heroic. What what? Why is that? Why is this heroic wise? This of? Why is what this p? and did heroic in I what somebody else did not heroic. What is that it give me twenty seconds of thinking about it. What makes something heroic act and is so blatantly obvious.

when somebody does something heroic, they do it not for themselves, but for others. And I'm not like a settlement, a cover The battle of Gettysburg, probably multiple, by gas, but you know this I Joshua Lords Chamberlain who was in charge the twentieth main in, and he just made a heroic effort of leadership and and personal fortitude at the moment of truth and its awesome. But as looked at all these different things as they unfolded, and you also see other things that happen in the battle of Gettysburg. We think all that was that was a move, but when looking at is heroic. Why boats, because it wasn't done, was done really for personal glory, Or at least it was elements of personal glory in there and, as a matter of fact, what's interesting is when you start looking at the personalities.

you start getting these caricatures of personalities, the battle of Gettysburg and in just one year. you hear the word like all this guy was flamboyant. and it's really hard to then take that person whose flamboyant and start start ups, eyeing the heroic to them, because you feel allow their flamboyant They made sacrifices, but you get that and look do alone, I'm critical, I'm just saying that you get this. You get this team of all this person was flamboyant, and all of a sudden you think. Well, you know but you see someone, that's not flamboyant someone that was a former freakin schoolteacher like like, like Colonel Chamberlain, and you think he's doing this not for himself Not for any level of glory whatsoever he's doing this to help to sacrifice and to help others. That's what he's doing and then you take all that and this list

experience at at Gettysburg near your basically hearing this incredible story and things to on the hallowed ground itself and is something that I said on this progress since day, one I you know, I would I used to. you more often, but I would say hey as on reading this I want you to remember that this a character in a story this in a purse, this isn't an actor playing a role in a movie. This is a person they did this And as I was at Gettysburg and you feel very, you can feel the gravity and the weight of of the battlefield feel it, and I know some of it is because you know we have been to war, and so we all kind of have some some taste in our mouth. Some memory of loss and of

fire and of blood and of fear, and so we know it and there, and you these stories and it was very was very heavy for me because you start recognised these stores- and I did a podcast about this with with darrow- would Darrow Cooper on unravelling, and we it's it's about the fact that wait the way human beings observe, store, observe absorb stories and how we actually create stories in order to better understand the world around us like it's. It's not this. Isn't this isn't pay theoretically this? What we do! This is what we do, our brain is programmed to do. Our brain is programmed to look at a set of circumstances and build a story around it so that we can survive better in the world. That's what we actually do.

And you hear these stories of the way things unfolded at Gettysburg You realize that our current situation, its America, its twenty twenty. We don't often tell the right stories or we have a battle of stories and people have a housing stories of the way things are the way things were, what happened and how things unfolded and what that all tells me it reinforced the fact that stories, it truly matter. and so, if you're, on a team. If your organization, if you're running a business, this story that you elevate Has a massive impact

the mindset and the culture of the people that you are leading so think about that and know that and understand that I mean Dave in the Marine corps. Think about story of the Marine corps and then think about the little stories that make up the marine corps, it's it's it's a religious lore, it say it's a biblical level story. And it provides the marine corps time back: it provides the marine corps with an implied in ten, with her with a culture and with that Use that are rooted in words there, salute be rooted in stories and I've covered a bunch of Marine corps doctrine. They

not their values, they route there their statements in stories so that they have meaning And if you're running an organization think about that because store is absolutely matter too. to have an organization that you can take you can take. Someone like me and have those stories be so careful that somehow I I d Ve Burke, feel can did to Smedley Butler or ass, the poor or people I have never known and will never meet, but feel. Obligated to perform in some way, that makes them proud of me being part of that organization that that monitor what culture like that. I haven't thought about this. stories in the way that you describe what they mean,

as you're saying it. That's why became marine was this stories. I didn't know these people And it wasn't even that I read about these people like in a corner logical sense. It was that the stories of what these people were and feeling the sense of wanting to be a part of that and feeling obligated to meet some standard that almost seemed impossible. the type of you're, calling from what makes when heroic to the meaning of stories. We think about what what an organisation can do if you can make that connection for your people, I mean that's an why I became a marine. That's why became a marine. That's why millions of people have become Marie Toy. and with that I think it's a good place to stop for tonight. If you want to dig deeper into these in all other aspects of leadership in any arena,

joint Dave and me in the rest of the echelon from team life. We are actually there. You won't talk to us people at all people in social meters above to meet you something come on Yep online mind, dot com and common meet me meet, gave me directly seem where there we will answer. Questions. We will help you solve your problems through leadership, if you want leadership guidance inside your organization, inside your company common check out our leadership, consultancy at a front doc it's what we do have also written a bunch of books about leadership. Extreme honest, the dichotomy, leadership, leadership, strategy and tactics. Got some other talk, Ass Jocapa That is my main podcast. I, because, as the root of everything, Jackal unravelling with my friend Darrell Cooper. We talk about the very in depth, subjects we also have grounded, which is

pretty much about judges and the word or kid park ass. The warrior kids out there if you want to support any of these. Gas, including this one? You can get gear from Jacques restore dot, com or origin main dot com. It's always got for tonight. Thank you for listening to the debris. If no go led, this Dave and Jacko out.