« Jocko Podcast

The Debrief w/ Jocko and Dave Berke #6: Iterative Decision Making. Making Small Moves, Rather Than Big Moves

2020-10-26 | 🔗

Jocko and Good Deal Dave Analyze some issues and look for solutions.

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
This is the Jack Debrief, podcast episode, six with Dave, Burke and me Jocker willing so Dave we have more debriefing to do. We didn't get through my gettysburg debris. that I had for you. So if you haven't the most logical back to absolute five, but moving in two, some of the other things that I had on my list that I texted to you and set? It got some debrief points for you so the next one I wanted to cover is- and this is something that in leadership, strategy and tactics and an eye, I believe its fairly well spelled out and I've been briefings a lot lately in the current virus. Nowhere in its two thousand twenty right now, there's a there's, a virus that currently seems like a a it's a world, a world imp.
acting virus, and so we ve all been dealing with enough been helping people make decisions. An end maneuver their companies and one of the things that I've been talking. A lot about is iterative decision making, which is a good way to lead in unknown circumstances and what you do is you basically make a small decision, and then you take a small step in that direction. And what I realised during this gettysburg during this Gettysburg battlefield walk that we, in discussing the various leadership decisions that were made was there were Certain situations where leaders on the battlefield. Could have made small moves instead of big ones and in No case did they do that are the I'm sure I'll find some of actually but in the major movements that were made, especially the maid the mistakes that were made there was no Time, where.
someone made a small decision, made a small step in that direction, so What I was saying it again on their with almost the entire world with a bunch of people from on front. It's me: it's leaf Mike's? Really it's? Who else? Is there a Stephen, Jason Carter, an Jamie so like we ve got this big crew there and I started talking. through one of the things that could have solved one of these major problems and that is when win win. General Longstreet didn't like a plan that General led come up with any dragged his feet, furnished the period of time and end up in a total disaster, and I said Did you ever gonna go now? What would you have done? What would you do not want to do downright either if you're either person? What would you have done? Any hotel draw a line in the sand. I would never do this. I don't agree with it. I would order and do our farmers and went through all these things and I said, Ok, here's where I worked on it with either person. If I was generally origin along street, I would have done
Iterative decision making and therefore iterative execution- and I think that there is just a gap- and I want to- explain that gap indecision making is not just making decision. It's the execution of that small decision so Dave. If I tell you hey Want you to assault that hill, and you say I don't think that's a good idea. and I say well, we need to get it done and you say why I don't think it's gonna. Be worth the effort and the casualties that we could take. case there's were out there's a line in the sand Either one of us at this point I can say well I'll tell you what. why don't you move another hundred yards Ford and push pusher couple point men? and see what they can see and see if they start taking fire see if there's any cover you could get in the way there. How does that sound and you go that actually make sense
or you could also say that to me you know what Jacques I don't know about assaulting that hill, here's. Why don't we start with this? All move a hundred meters closer I'll, send a couple scouts up, we'll see if there's any covered it we could get. If it looks like we are taking fire, I can pull him back if we're not to Fire and we find good cover proceed a little further. That's it that's a real decision making. And eating includes entered execution you find is that when you make small decision, and then you take a small step. When you make that small step, you learn more. When you learn more, you can make a decision on which direction to go now. so that's fairly straightforward. The next that I have is that it decisions are actually aggressive. You can make restive much more aggressive moves when they are small. So
I've been telling a lot of clients that I had a reputation in the seal teams are being very, very decisive. But I was cheating, I was cheating because I wouldn't make decisive massive moves. I would make me These small removes very rapidly so if he started taking fire. I didn't say. I really want to salt now being I don't even know where we're taking fire from or how many people there are. What the situation is. So we're going to say everyone assault now. And I'm not chrysanthemum runaway we're taking vibrant, that's a big decision about it. I don't take dapple that what I say is hate you. People go up to the roof. Dave Dave Michael the roof tell me what you say Everyone thinks I just made a power decision. Theirs, We know risk we're in a building that we already own. You have cover up on the roof goal that is being aggressive so it or if decisions where some people, where some people might think. Well, that's gonna weak
right. What are you doing that week? You're just gonna ears, you know years taking small steps, I'm take small that's rapidly and that is the best way to be aggressive. Look caviar. I'm you have to make a ball decision, that's big! Yes, you do absolutely sure happen very seldom, we it happen very seldom and hope we doesn't happen at all. Yet one of the reasons. Why would we you The team we ve been talking about it all decision making so much more recently is because of what you just described. I rode down the very beginning, I wrote down the word unknown course. talk about and its we all understand that this is kind of a period of unknown. Nobody was playbook for cobia. Nobody saw this thing. Come and so part of the reason why we have been talking about it. Decision making and said way fast, short movements is how you maneuver in this unknown environment, and it makes sense What we should be talking about.
The other side of that when you talk about it or of decision making is if you can take this whole situation up, let's go back here. Where things are just kind of jam. Every thing was was going really well. it was actually there is actually out of unknown there too, and in the thing that complacency creeps into when you think you got the whole situation, you at the whole way the wind thinking oh, what's going on, and you to make these bigger? longer less it decisions. If you complacent. Even if you think you know everything you ve girls from issue. So you know what they're thing. we don't know are all the intel I've seen this fifty times. I've done it throughout my entire career. Everything is the ways if you keep that might have been what there's something out there. Maybe we don't know you're, acting going to end up doing the exact same decisionmaking process. Now You would a year ago, or a year from now,
This idea of iter of decisions is it just because we know there's unnoticed because there's always unknown it may be right, the obvious now entity is its glaringly obvious that we don't know what's going on sometimes The truth of the matter is that, if you're in a leadership role, it's alright like that and if you think you ve got this whole thing figured out would go Jack I'll. Just take your team go ten miles down the road and plant the flag and that he'll, if you think you know between here and there, units that yourself up, to make the same decision making approach at sea It'll decision making and then what situation is avatars. They get there ain't, no practical commitment. You can do quickly, but you don't not do that. just because you think you ve got the situation, understood as bent as well. I've been explained this to clients, I've been do you know, was set up with him. I'll, say arm I'll say what wanna do as a leader in this position. Is you wanted
guess on what to do next, and then I say I say nobody wants to hear that nobody wants to hear that the leader is taking a guess as to what to do next, but guess what in situation, if you're in a leadership position the number of times, if you're going to have one hundred percent, accurate information, spoon FED to you and you're going to be able to line up that and come up with a perfect decision is never if you're in a leadership position, guess what you are making guesses, that's what you're doing that's? What leaders do? How do we mitigate the risk of the gas? We take a little tiny step so. You have to guess so, don't come all your forces are all your resources. Raul, your assets to guess commit Does the Little Party Beethoven and then do an assessment to see if it was the right move or not. It cost you so little, and even that guess there's nothing wrong with me admitting as a leader, hey, you know what I don't have all the answers here as better fact, when you me. Those orders go take that hill and I'm thinkin.
This is a terrible idea not doing that. Why would come and go? hey, that's a terrible idea! I can do that having to go hey boss,. I'd like to hear you're, saying: look, I don't have a good recon between here and let me take my time going to push him out and give me about an hour already you back what you see where to take this first move assets and scouts. I don't need to dig in my position. I did go. Okay, happen, and I apply the same thing, but if I can make This is a terrible idea. We should do this in a tones. I go out there like, while this is actually really easy now at a call. Like hey? You are right and I got There is no reason not to just say I really dont know and the best. Way for us to know is whether to go out and start to move in this direction. The other thing I've been telling all my client is after you make that gas and turns out your guess is wrong. What do you do, then? You tell everyone hate, I guess a little bit wrong. I says this wrong. Here's some things that change two years, a different view. Now that we now that we see this part of the greater this part of the battlefield years
I'm gonna make you have to be humble enough to make adjustments that doesn't it make you look really dumb and weak when you get something wrong and it goes back, goes back to you know your perspective, your ego, being well did attach, because everybody knows that if I stand up and say listen, I know we're meet more resistance and we thought we were going forward. Anyways ever mangoes, you're freaking. Eighty crazy, are right. Next, the last, one of these debrief park ass, we did. We are talking a lot about intent and implied intent, meaning just through my added Who'd. You know what I want, then there's act, verbal or written commanders and ten here's. What I want you to do: here's my overall intent and then there culture and there's values in you stack all these things together And we have, we should have a situation that, if you take my my verbal commanders intent or my written commanders intent like hey. This is what I want to do. The imply
intent the values, the culture you be able to make. Ninety nine point: nine percent of decisions without having to talk to me at all. If you workin for me, that's the way it should be. How do I know that. Well here's a here's, a little drill that I can run through with you to see if you understand these various forms of my intent and that is discussing contingencies,. Because if I say hey Dave, what will you do if you get into an enemy contact before you get to the target, And you say if we take enemy contact, we're goin for Otto had where go to assault from wherever we are and what actually wanted you to do was not reveal your position. Well, guess what
obviously not explained any level of these intense to you so if you're in a leadership position? And you want to stand if people look at and if I say eight Dave, the commanders and ten for tonight, you get in and out without being compromised and you say: got it boss by ok red back to me what the intentions you said to get in and not without being compromised, like a cool, got it this, only means that you could repeat the words that I said then is it ok, let me run through some scenarios: Wang, here's, a contingency, you will love, you get are your vehicles and all the sudden there's stars, barking and lights are coming on inside the village? What are you going to do and you like the dogs assault by rights right, so that something it's really simple. It's a really simple thing, but if you talk contingencies with people you find out what their thinking it reveals, whether they understand your intent or not. As so
We didn't. I wouldn't rehearse into that. You sent me this text last week into my cool. I wonder what is it and we're talking about it now and in his eye, as I read this boy Contingencies reveal understanding of your intend. It took me a minute to come to understand the context and as you're describing it and then saving. Always I put myself in a position of the supported it. Everybody should understand, and this is true for you, you and I despite the fact that we ve commanded teams and we ve always also been suborners. I've been a subordinate mind, A career I was never not without a boss in the motor, so the risk of being a subordinate, something I'm very familiar with. Even when I was a commander, I was a subordinate to some other senior commander. Why should I just hey? What would you do here? Sometimes one like my boss would ask me that I would feel like is questioning what it is.
Questioning me, but really what boss is doing. There is actually evaluating how good of a job he has done to pair me to handle, which he actually knows. It can happen, which is a contingency contingencies, always happen. Having ever happens away, you plan, and as a leader when you're saying hey, ok, Jacko, walk me through this scenario. You got my intent, but this happens. We're gonna, do that's not me, asking you, that's me testing me. Have I Spain, myself well, and so, when I what as your explaining picturing again, you know what how many times that I hear my boss, only through continuous here, I'm thinkin those Rama this guy was. He ask him. You always questions questioning whether I know what I'm doing, what I'm doing. No he's actually measuring hymns. health did he explained at one of to set me up to be successful when he full well. There are gonna be problems as I go. Execute casinos without that are waiting for me.
The understanding, the tenement, how critical is that that I know you're intend as a leader, so I can do something in real time and get it right the universe is interesting. I had this conversation with Jamie the other day and your Jamie has been participated more and more and answer questions and stuff. It's because you know Jack, I'm starting to feel like I M doing it, Job answer, questions on luckier: you knock it out of the park and she yeah. You know I'm just turn of I'm just kind of answering the way. I would answer a client when they asked me a question and in and of course I know I make everyone nervous you, like everyone wants to say the right thing and she- alluded to that. She's, like you know, sometimes when I know you're on on the visa, mine- and I know that if I say something I want to get it right and it makes me trip up and I dont want to do that anymore. I go Jamie trust me. You they all these questions and-
Then I told her look this used to happen when I was running training for the seals. You'd get these young seal leaders and I put it some pressure situation and I would be looking at them and they would do something really stupid and I go I Why did you do that? They, like you'd want me to be aggressive. I thought you'd want me to whatever I thought you want me to take the high ground right that and I go bro. don't do what you think I want you to do not try to interpret what you think I might once you do. You think you should do right, then. that's what you need to do, so that's it! the thing that walking through contingencies reveals look Don't want, someone in the field that is going be the decision based on what they think I might want them to do. If I was there, I want them actually do what makes sense in that situation. So let's go through some contingency, so we can remove that and then,
we truly understand. If they know what the intent is and again we now we ve got multiple levels of intent to fine, comprehend and nation we see they're all lined, but they are, Had a different spectre, our spectrum and they're all imports and, by the way, the european ready by the way there is a hierarchy of these intense, so I've told you. You know that hey you're going you will we. I want you to avoid getting an enemy contact tonight, but something happens where your troops are endangered right. There is a hierarchy of intense which we actually need to have understanding of now look most of the time there are locked, I mean I want
Commissioner, what you, though, that most of the time they are lined, but there can be nuanced scenarios where leaders going to have to say look. I know the intent that Jacko told me what two was too make sure we make money on this deal. But right now the only way we make money on this deal, by me: growing over this client I know. There's a hierarchy of intense here and I know there are not supposed to do that so not only do we have multiple intense they. be aligned, but there is a hierarchy that makes that makes sense and its its. If you understand the strategy of european what you really want us to do in the long run, it makes easier to do that. You use it ample like this before to which was, you could say, Dave Ma and is actually don't you well your position, keep
Low Profile and if there's any risk that I want you to withdraw and backup. That's what I want you to do, but times that that might actually me at more risk and the you're the one recommended we lost, you guys, but I followed where I thought you wanted me to do, which was backup and that's then you're timers, don't do what you think I want you to do when we. First or national front, and you started talking and training us about how to do q how do we answer questions questions the goal? but you said, was I won't the answer the question in the way the EU actually solve that problem. So if you have a question you think about what you would do, and if you have the humility to say this is what I do and it turns out that's wrong. Now We actually have a debriefing go, hey David. Let me talk you white. Maybe this wouldn't work, and I can learn from that and get better at that, but of a spinning my time, thinking about what you would say and I know a Jamie. Talk about, we all know inside you have jack. I want to deal with us, like God, he's watching me answer
I can have the humility to just do what I think I should do all actually learn more and get better rather than trying to calculate would talk of Saint Jacques do not make causing problems for me, and you actually dont want me doing that anyway, you want, do what I think I should do and if it's right good, and if it's wrong, then we can debriefing to learn from it and get better. There's a there's, a level of detachment reflection that goes on there too, because saying here's, a classic example of some guys get caught in it. Then it's a straight up. Well, what would Jacko do right? What would Jesus do? Well, they have why this is so scared they have their implied intent that they have received. Is it possible that implied intended someone is received from me- is not accurate. Yes, it's absolutely possible because jockers aggressive and he makes things happen, and so What do I think when I get asked a question
What should I do? My supported just says a this: sounds like a horrible plan and we're not do it and fought as well. Jock was default aggressive. You know what you shut up, and do I told you to do and so here's what I tell people? Actually ask yourself, if you could picture me doing that actually say do wait a second. If I were to put jack on the situation- and I was saying hey, I don't want to do your playing with your pussy shut up and do what I told you to Actually he wouldn't do that. What would you do he would say? Why do you? What what is it that you don't like about the plan and you have a different idea so there's a whole, there is a whole level, This comes down to is these? the good conversations that you can have based on contingency. contingencies and how people can act in certain situations, and then you take this hierarchy of intent. That were were now turning to the world as it exists and by the way, if I implied intent is received in an inaccurate wake. That's a horrible thing and that's why
you to pay attention to and there's plenty of leaders that dont pay attention do they dont understand it, they don't know that exists. We ve got this implied intent that don't ask me any questions. Don't ask me, questions do, I tell you to do that's it. That's implied intent, and they are some people kind of like that in intent, you shut up and ask me questions you. I told you to do right. The next thing One should be relatively simple: what winning, looks like to you verses, what winning looks like to the troops so This is again. This is aligned with intent, but. You have to make sure that what winning looks like to me is what winning looks like two. If your work for me naw man, would not actually you not working for me but if you're on the front lines and I'm the boss
I have to make sure that winning looks the same to both of us, because if winning to you, looks like a deal and it doesn't matter if we ever do anything with this view. If your car salesman and you're yeah. You want to close that deal and make as much money as you possibly can and get that person out the door. You don't care that it's a lemon and its they're gonna complain about it on the help that wind for you It's a loss for me. So what do I need to do? I need to make sure that winning, for you looks the same as winning for me and if I do a good job of setting up my compensations in the missions in the way we're doing things, I can make sure that those who are aligned but often times use situations where hey the what the frontline troop thinks is winning is not aligned. What the senior leadership thinks willingness to have to be careful that, as I'm thinking about what
just saying and then think about things you said and before it can a piece you get a lot of conversations. We have one of the easiest ways to make sure that what winning looks like from me some of her and now the big boss, whatever I'm in charge hosting here, for levels down your from my guy selling cars or whatever. That scenario was one of the best ways for me. They led her to make sure winning to me and when to look the same. Is I have to care about, you more than me do. You really believe that you being successful is what this is all about, that this team that I'm in charge of a responsible for our task to lead wherever that is, and you have that so many times and really have to think about what that means that Europe, when you as a task unit commander made decisions, and you talk about the challenge of like understanding that putting your men at risk and knowing what you read? What what really was output the out there for them that you care
about them more than yourself. much easier it is to align them winning with you winning view actually are in it for you and what kind of what? What does What how destructive that is in the long run from organization when you as a leader See ya around six success as the as is kind of like the secret that All that you really want at the expense of your team and How simple, it sounds to say, put your people before you and end and military source of of taking care of her people If you don't actually believe that it's gonna be really hard for winning to be the same for you and for them. Yet we did that podcast not too long ago and that I forget the quote. I wish I could remember off the top my head, but it was something like if you, if, if you provide evidence of UK
bring about your troops. You don't even have to re about morale day. Fight will fight. I think it was, I think it was the and podcasting forty five any was provide evidence Let your people believe that you can show them that you actually move that we allow them more at all the problems take care of themselves, Gustavo fight. next thing, There are some really dumb things that happened in the battle of Gettysburg peopled. It's really really dumb things and there's a bunch of reasons? Why there's a bunch of things that could have help that mostly being relationships. If, if I M relationship, with you Dave. Look if I relationship with you, I at least have a dumb detector- and I can say you know what Dave is gonna do he's here:
Hence we do some dumb stuff, I'm gonna! Keep me my back pocket. I'm going to keep an eye on him. market, given the the the did sure that's gonna, take a lot of decision making, but. If I don't have a relationship with you, then I dont know how Tom you could be, and there is a chance that you could do things that are so dumb that I really didn't even conceive of a contingency where you could be this stupid. So what you have to do is you have to think about the parameters wrapping some wide. amateurs around stupidity in such a way into where you don't know. Somebody well enough
And I'll tell you even when you do know, people will do you first time you put them into combat or first time they put him to get put under stress or the first time that there in an unknown, teethers up their situation. We're even someone, you know and trust you might need to free some parameters around the most outlandish things that people could do. So what that is? this is it. This is extreme ownership. Bright! Listen if Dave does something. If I'm in charge in Dave does something that is so stupid. That is my fault, because I didn't put the parameters and place I didn't know. Well enough, I didn't I didn't. I didn't anticipate this level of stupidity and you know that makes me stupid. So this the ice. You know you start to hear people saying you know what that person did. That was just absolutely ridiculous. How could you so Don t you
You remember people going to dumb things, put some parameters in place to prevent really dumb things from happening. and by the way when they do happen. Ok, you let it happen, go go clean! It up. I hate when people do really dumplings echo and the reason I hated, because I know that I screwed up here. I know that. I screwed up here question: was it a good move or not? Was that call a good? for a bad cold and where this comes into play in the battle of Gettysburg and elsewhere, but where it really comes into play, is we want our people to be default aggressive? We want our subordinate leaders to have a biased for action. We want them to step up on me. Things happen. We want I've decentralized command. All those things are good. Well guess what gave if you're in the field and I'm in charge, you could show initiative you
good. You could maneuver your troops to beyond the limit of advance, because you saw an opportunity or you saw situation that needed to be dealt with immediately and that could cost us the bat It might have been the wrong move and it costs us the battle. It might have been the right move and it want us about theirs Situations that happened at Gettysburg and are situations that have happened throughout battles throughout history, this situation that happen in business we're somebody makes a move. Somebody does something it destroys whole business, so me makes a gamble, somebody from who's out a product that they should it there's just all these things that happen. Was it a good move or not? So you can see you can sit back from hindsight is twenty twenty perspective and say. Well, how do we know of something was a good move or not right. How do we know if something was a good move? Well, what we have
do. We have to look at the fund Mental principles that we are operating within and what that so a cover move is a good example cover move. You could take that as plied intent for me, if you work for me and you are covering in moving look, I set a too, but you better freakin. Just no one is well cover moves. The weight is this principle that doesn't change so if if you came back to me, if, if you came back and said, hey Jacko, here's what I did this, it was moving. I I to a position where I could better cover for them we were able to move, but then I got flanked. had to retreat and then they retreated that's why we had failed. The mission. Was it a good move or not? Did you write Cover move nope, you didn't so I can look at that and say you know what you think.
The result you wanted. You fail the mission, but at least you didn't violate the principles. View came back and said: you know what Jacko eyes on opportunity I started I I lost contact with the element that was supporting us. I got let's just trying to drugs in a good way what really happened. You got target fixated, you moved too far and now all of a sudden you're out of supporting distance, and they can help you to more. Now you can cover move for each other and that's when they got ambushed. and there was no support for them, That's why we took casualties, but I was just being aggressive action? Bro. You violated a principle: you violated cover move so now if we were- To stack things up, we get these. go back to this idea of implied intent, commanders intent, values, culture? We stand
all those things up and if we start violating these things now we can look back and we can objective. We say this was a add move it didn't support the intent. It did not support the implied in ten didn't support the commanders and ten. All those things are bad, now where I have a problem. Is I can't count on you. I can't you accountable for understanding my implied in ten. If I ever talk about it with you right I can. It can be a reason but unless I turn that into and turned into a value of culture and any commanders intent. Then it doesn't help me so those are some ways. If you Think about situations and you want to debrief your people properly and you say well, do you know Dave? We ve talked about cover, move
since day one I've seen you rehearse it and practice it, and you got out there and you're wondering why I'm thinking that you made a bad move, because you I laid the only principle that I told you never to violate because that's war at as a leader we ve got, we ve got people that are I do think that we have to be explained to them. Why was right you're. Why was wrong because we want, fishing and always comes back to decentralize Khmer, because we want people to have initiative, but so where this is all going is the parameters that we allow people to operate within right. The parameters that we allow people to operate within. We to make sure that they understand them goes back to revealing intent through contingencies. All these things stack up and if we want to be what d someone properly and say, hey here's
why this was a bad move and here's why you can't do it again because it violated this I like this and by the way it revealed to me, I've, given you an implied, intent that union understand you you thought I always thought go, and I dont think that an eye view. That impression, that's my fault, to look at it. when you make a bad move I'm not saying it's your fault but gotta, be able to explain to you why it was a bad move, so good things to think about when somebody makes a move when they do something and- and you want to explain to them why it was wrong- you have to have you- have to be able to display the them what they ve
related, so that you can explain to them in a more clear manner what the violation was and why it can happen again, this one's pretty simple and straightforward yours heroic activities at the Battle of Gettysburg, and can I just got to thinking what is the? How is it that we as human beings, can look at someone and say that was heroic. What what? Why is that? Why is this heroic wise? This of? Why is what this point indeed did heroic in Why? What somebody else did not heroic? What is that give me twenty seconds of thinking about it. What makes something a heroic act and is so blatantly obvious.
when somebody does something heroic, they do it not for themselves, but for others. And I'm not like a settlement to cover the battle he's Bergen. Probably multiple our gas? But you know this I Joshua Lords Chamberlain, who was charge of the twentieth main in and he just made a heroic effort of leadership and and personal fortitude at the moment of truth and its awesome, but as looked at all these different things as they unfolded, and you also see other things that happened in the battle of Gettysburg. We think all that was that was a move, but we're not looking at his heroic. Why? Whilst because it wasn't done. was done really for personal glory or There were elements of personal glory in there and, as a matter of fact, Watson the is when you start looking at the personalities
Start getting these caricatures of personalities, the battle of Gettysburg and an end just one year you hear the word like all this guy was flamboyant. and it's really hard to then take that person whose flamboyant and start start ups eyeing the heroic to them, because you feel allow their flamboyant. made sacrifices, but you get that and look do. Look, I'm not being critical. I'm guessing you get this, you get this tinge of all this person was flamboyant and all of a sudden, you think. Well, you know But you see someone, that's not flamboyant someone that was a former freakin schoolteacher like like, like Colonel Chamberlain, and you think he's doing this not for himself not for any level of glory whatsoever. He's doing this to help to sacrifice and to help others, that's what he's doing and then you take all that and this list,
experience at at Gettysburg near your basically hearing this incredible story and and ends on the hollow. ground itself and is something that I said in his progress since day one I you know, I would I used to more often, Hey as on reading this I want, you to remember that this the character in a story. This isn't it this is an actor playing a role The movie. This is a person they did. This. and as I was at Gettysburg and you feel very, you can feel the gravity and the weight of of the battlefield, feel it- and I know some of it- is because you know we have been to war, and so we all kind of have some Some taste in our mouth some memory of loss and of
fire and of blood and fear, and so we know it and your there and you hear these stories. And it was very was very heavy for me because you start recognised these stores- and I did a podcast about this with with Darrell, would Darrow Cooper on unravelling and we it's it's about Fact that way. The way human beings observed store, observe absorb stories and how we actually create stories in order to better understand the world around us like it's. It's not this. Isn't this isn't pay theoretically this? What we do! This is what we do our brain is programmed to do. our brain is programme to look at a set of circumstances and build a story around it, so that we can survive better in the world. That's what we actually do
and you hear these stories of the way things unfolded. Gettysburg You realize that current situation, its America, its twenty twenty, we don't often tell the rights, stories, or we have a battle of stories and people have appeared using stories of the way things are the way things were, what happened and how things unfolded, and what that all tells me. It reinforced the fact that stories truly matter, and so, if you're, on a team. If your organization, if you're running a business this story that you elevate. Has a massive impact,
the mindset and the culture of the people that you are leading so think about that and know that and understand that I mean Dave in marine corps think about the story of the Marine corps and then think about the little stories that make up the marine corps. It's it's it's a religious law, or it say it's a biblical level story. And it provides the marine corps I'm back. It provides the marine corps with an implied in ten, with her with a culture and with use that are rooted in words. They are absolutely rooted in stories and I've covered a bunch of Marine corps doctrine. They Out there
values they route there their statements in stories so that they have meaning And if you're running an organization think about that because store is absolutely matter too. to have an organisation that you can take? You can take someone like me and have those stories beast a powerful that somehow I I Dave Ve Burke, feeling next to Smedley, Butler or chest poor people I have never known and will never meet, but feel, obligated to perform in some way that makes them proud of me being part of that organization. That many times culture like that. I haven't thought about this stories in the way that you describe and what they mean as your saying it does
why I became marine. Was this stories. I didn't know these people and it wasn't even that I read about these people like In a chronological sets, it was that the stories of what these people were and feeling- sense of wanting to be a part of that and feeling obligated meet some standard. It almost seemed impossible. the tiny enough you're calling from what makes them heroic to the meaning of stories? I think about it? What an organisation can do if you can make that connection for your people minutes, and that's why I became a marine. That's why became a marine. That's why millions of people have become Marie toy. with that. I think it's a good place to start for tonight. If you want to dig deeper into these in all other aspects of leadership in any Lena, you can join d leave me in the rest of the echelon from team life. We are actually there. You are
to US people at all, people on social media love to meet you someday, come on, that you have online dot com and come and meet me meet Dave meet the rest of the day. Where there we will answer your change, we will help you solve your problems through leadership, and if you want leadership, I didn't inside your organization inside company common check out our leadership, consultancy and echelon front dot com, to what we do have also been a bunch of books about leadership, extreme honest I the dichotomy, leadership, leadership, strategy and tactics, guts, the planned gas. Chocolate bar gases by main park asked because, as the root of everything Jackal unravelling with my friend Darrell Cooper, we talk about very in depth, subjects. We also have grounded, which is pretty much about Jujitsu and the word or care park, as for other warrior kids out there, and if you want to support any of these,
on gas, including this one evening some gear from Jacko Store, dot, com or origin. Main dot com. It's always got for tonight. Thank you for listening to the DE brief, no go led this Dave and Jacko out.
Transcript generated on 2020-10-27.