Hey, what's up everybody, first of all, thank you to everybody came to the show in Vegas this weekend was. It was very strange to be performing just five days after such a horrific massacre, but I think I could speak for all of us when I say that we all needed a laugh and you guys were amazing. It was a great crowd, really really enjoyed it. Yeah, each other comedy dates coming up the next one. The 28th of October. That's at the Masonic Theater in San Francisco two shows first, phone is sold out. Second, one is really close to selling out and then November Third Madison Square Garden. However 17th Denver at the Belco Theater first show almost sold out some tickets available for the second show Phoenix. Com or see a theater on the eighteenth, almost sold out blah blah blah blah blah. You can find all these dates. Hey Joe Rogan dot net, for

Slash tour! If you want to come to the show for New Year's eve, though I should say that we're at the Wiltern, in LOS Angeles with me and the great and powerful, Ian Edwards and um ten p m show is sold out in seven hundred and thirty pm show is selling out very quickly Joerogan net forward, slash tour for all that good stuff. So the podcast is brought to you by blue apron. This October, blue apron is celebrating its fifth anniversary by bringing back its top twenty recipes from throughout the past five. Years as picked by you, the blue apron community focus Blue apron Bro, April is an awesome service did send the styrofoam cooler with like some bags in it and pre packaged food in the proper proportion things for you to cook delicious meals. It's all fresh food. It's all done!

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time, and then, of course, you can watch on Youtube to God, damn. How good is that all right hey, is Eric Weinstein brother of Bret Weinstein who's been on the park. Before and we found not to be confused with Harvey Weinstein they're, not related. They have a different saying. There's it's spelled the same, I'm never saying Weinstein again when I say Brett, because I fucked before up before Weinstein Eric Weinstein, brilliant guy. Eric is really really interesting and we had a fantastic conversation was a little nervous at first hello nurse, but he loosened up incredibly and we great time an if you hear a lot of banging around the beginning of the podcast that should goes away. This is our last week here at the current studio, we're moving, and it's apropos that the say that we're about to move these mother fuckers.

Start pounding on the roof there fixing something here, alright folks, without any further ado. Please welcome Eric Weinstein. The Joe Rogan experience. Yes, the last hello Eric Lucia thanks to This had a question you're, not late into that other fella, the other one team fell it's in trouble right now, Brett once and now, that's your brother, the other hello, one, the other guy yeah. I don't know him. Okay, the I got in trouble It is like two more women, Angelina, Jolie and uh. They both came out today, yeah. I don't think it's going to stop. There seems like you might have a little bit of an issue,

amazing that someone can get away with something like that for so long and then one or two people, come clean in the walls come down the oppressive fist of just his tyranny whatever I did yeah I mean I think it does speak to the idea that really exists in an industry in a town like this. It's always been like that That's been the cliche right, the casting couch right. Yes I didn't know in the modern era how much how much power anyone still had yeah. I wonder you know it's just, and it's also like super left guy. You know, like really politically connected to social justice, ideologies, fighting gun control- I mean you know, promoting gun control and thing for Hillary and all this yeah. It seems like over company I don't want to bring this up right up front that we're going to

about cuttlefish. I asked you save the cuttlefish. In an odd little comfort conversation about how it was just a little fish we were talking about. It means all of these are just like incredible, button topics, but we talking before about your conversation on male and female. Programming in the mind on male and female biological right frames and. What I was. What I was going to to talk about. There was that you can actually have in other species which aren't nearly as controversial as humans. Rational basis for something like Transphobia in an evolutionary context. So the giant cuttlefish which I think is called Seppi Apama, I'm not a biologist, um the mail,

are incredibly large, so they're, very sexually dimorphic and you've got these tiny or smaller males who don't have a good strategy for keeping a lot of female. Underneath them where's the males are incredibly larger than males are incredibly large. Okay, females tend to be much smaller. Okay, when the females are impressed, they except shelter underneath one of these giant to males, but then you have these other males who aren't nearly as big which might be called sneaker males and the sneaker males start retracting the tentacles that identify them as male an changing through their chromatophores there's sort of their presentation to look female and then the joy males invite these mails disguised as females through behavioral change underneath and we

now proven. I believe that these sneaker males inseminate the females. Well, the a large hills, are getting duped. Now are the larger males larger, because they just have better genetics or are they larger because they're older? Well, you know the question about better genetics, key question. As who leaves the lineages that matter overtime. So if you're wasting all of your energi on a strategy and in fact, what you're doing is you're providing protection for sneaker males to get busy with the females who seem to be equally happy to reward. A devious mail as a strong one, you know put in mind of the old Willie Dixon Blues song, I'm a back door, man them in don't know, but the little girls understand you know definitely females favor, a variety of strategies, whether

Communicating strength and dominance, cleverness or anything that females are likely to decide. Will benefit their offspring yeah, that's a great name for him to sneaker males is not like the tactical mail. It did long term for those small mills, I I've, seen it in lizards and I don't know the Sepi Apama giant cuttlefish system. But I'm I'm obsessed with cephalopods. I should probably go back and do some homework on them I didn't know he would be starting out with. Documenting Harvey Weinstein, Harvey Weinstein, giant, yeah, right find Stein versus Weinstein. That's the difference, I'm definitely keeping that yeah yeah. That's a good distinction! Now, right now, yeah, it's good yeah make a separation, so cephalopods, including cuttlefish, Octopus, squids novelists and then they all sort of came from Malik's right? This is the craziest thing. World right I mean we're. Not we're not during

need to meet an alien intelligence during our lifetimes. But the idea that such genius, exists in mollusks, where you least expect it. Yeah is probably the closest we're ever going to get to aliens. So I mean I think that It's sort of there's a secret, nationals, conspiracy, people who have realized this- and you know just freak out on South La Pots- and they know they know every crazy thing that self have been proven to understand, and you know where their cognitive capabilities just sort of wow list. The cognitive capabilities, their camouflage capabilities. That strategy they use for attacking bait fish and there's a that I put up on my twitter really recently of a cuttlefish that opens up like a flower and shoots it hang out, gets this fish and then just sucks it into its body. It's like you're. Looking,

some kind of an alien, its totaly in me, I forget, is seven fold, symmetry or you know it's really on a different branch of the phylogenetic tree. An I think that you know the dazzle patterns where you just start seeing these neon signs that are effectively made out of the chromatophores um. If you've seen the videos where people put them on against, like really artificial patterns like chess boards or hints or things, and the cuttlefish has to figure out. Ok, how do I blend in with that yeah yeah and they do their best to mock it, but the the natural world they mimicked perfectly. Well, not really, I think, octopus can do it? Some octopus can do it. I think happens. Is that yeah? That's? I don't know that one. I guess it's octopi, I think what they do. Is they actually sort of do much less then we are imagining and they use the fact that

our brains are interpolated, so their part not matching the background as well as we think, there doing it well enough that our brains sort of make up the difference. That's weird: I mean what would be the difference in the way we interpret their their visual. What whatever Numbers are giving off because it's visual, camouflage right yeah, Look at some of the some of the camouflage videos like the first. Seven times you see it. You can't imagine yeah, but then after after a while you say: oh wow, there really is a difference, and somehow I just I did the interpolation to help out that which is trying to escape my detection. Well, I mean there's definitely distinction you can kind of tell once you look at it, but it's so insanely impressive in comparison to pretty much almost every the life form

you know what they can do in terms of like they could change their texture. That's one of the like they when they sit on a coral reef, and they start looking like a coral reef like whoa. Have you checked at the mimic octopus? Yes right, so that one five or six different disguises I I can't even imagine that, usually, when you have mimicry it's dedicated or obligate, like a you know, a stick bug or a leaf insect only only Do that one trick. You know what to tools like I've, heard a real, legitimate argument for people that are opposed to eating animal protein? That mollusks Select clams and mussels and things on those lines are for more primitive. In terms of their ability to recognize or have any any sense of what pain is any sort of communication. Any sort of interpretation end of danger that all they do is close right and that in closing, we've interpreted that to being it's an animal and

animal life form is like it's like eating a living thing versus like eating plants, but I've. Did you actually SAM Harris is the first one to bring it up is actually a moral argument that they sense less than plants do and that they more more there, our primitive, then plants are but yet from the mall, it's family. You have octopus and good argument that you probably be knocked of, like you shouldn't be eating monkeys, you know, like an octopus, is like crazy, sneaky smart, it's Joe case they are delicious. Yeah. I think, if you ever look at Humboldt Squid

schooling in descending as one of the great nightmares of all time, the only thing I've seen a humble square of the humble square, and sometimes they forget, they call them red devils or a feeling, the coast of Baja, California and they're, just social and there fine, because they attack in groups so the planet or they coordinate in some way. In some way I mean, obviously the chromatophores must have some ability to do signaling, and I think that you know with respect to what we have to figure out whether it's really intelligence that causes us to become empathic is that you know obviously war and you think highly of your enemy. You have

to guard against your own empathy so that you can be effective warrior. You have to ask the question: you know if monkeys and apes are among the most intelligent beings that do. I actually feel some revulsion for just how savage chimpanzees are as compared to say, bonobos, Givens. He is the real argument or they're. The real, fascinating conversation is what happened on the The evolutionary chain like why did but become it's peaceful sexual creatures and Champs become these warring savage psychos like what It looks so similar like what happened that one I don't know, but there's an interesting system in dung beetles, where, if you look at the arguments that they have on their head for warring between May

There is a conserved quantity between the length of the copulatory apparatus and the size of the weaponry, so the more weapons, the smaller the penises so you know they're all these crazy trade offs in apes between relative testicular size and people's size. For gorillas right guerrillas have tiny little penises, but enormous bodies, giant fangs and little tiny one inch, penises yeah. I guess yeah an, but she began seeing big penises and big testicles. Both yeah see. Says that panzies there's a direct correlation between promiscuous females and the size of their testicles. I don't. I don't remember that one but yeah the question about. I also worry that we've we've idealized the bonobos too much, and you know we were sort of it's very hard to be sympathetic

with the chimps after Jane Goodall showed us what their capable of right, but in part, you know that the cold logic of the natural world uh, in general, it's usually some reason that makes complete sense. It's it can't be sentimental anytime. You bring sentimentality and you usually screw up a good theory and so you know I I I I worry that are. Comparisons are driven by hiring needs to put to locate ourselves farther away from chimpanzees and closer to something that we were. We feel comfortable, so who are idealizing? The bonobo's is not necessarily based on what they actually are, but based on, like our little sort of Hippie Van, tion of life like look, we could be like the but loving and sexual and affectionate or we can be

like the warring horrible horrible chimpanzees? Well, you know. It's also the case that how great does it feel to be sexual if you're being sexually out competed by others, it's always fun fun to be. You know LOS. Abbas and nature is different ways of punishing and rewarding status in achievement in in various dip in various different species. So my guess is that there is a kind of concerts conserved you know unpleasantness and losing each particular game and they pleasure in winning each particular game. That's essentially how keeps moving forward right, yeah. You know to the extent that you're wasting Nrg

he warring when you could be being constructive, very being more strategic, a you're gonna get out competed by whichever members the of your species. You know, figure out the puzzle first, and so I think that you know this. This concept of the naturalistic fallacy of of viewing that which you know if you saw that we carry some sort of judeo christian baggage and all of this was thought to come from it. The creator who was thought to have positive characteristics than well. Obviously, the natural world is, is God's work, but I mean, if you actually look at the systems that fascinate me, the creator would have to be about the most twisted conscious consciousness. You could possibly imagine well, it seems like it's. It's the long game. The creators playing and the creators now playing the game that favors the health and welfare of the individual in the current day. It's the matter of

figuring out how to get through this brutal game and advancing evolving along the way to the point where someday in the future, you find a more complex it's involved system, but you know, is the most complex and involved this us, you and me humans, most complex and involved system in terms of its ability to change its environment that we've ever come across and we're not too happy with ourselves. Yeah, although I mean I do think that despite our barbarism, we are that which can contemplate the game, and you know at some point. You've obviously had my brother on the on the show. I asked him as an evolutionary theorist Brett. What are you doing? You know you're married to one woman. You've had two kids as an evolutionary theorist. Don't you think you're throwing the game and his response I think, brilliant. It was and tell me Eric if you understood the game, why would you want to continue to play it?

I'm right so for him, it was almost like a sort of proof that if you really get you know and that's another one of his good quotes is that life, when properly understood, is a spelling bee that ends in genocide that we're also focus on nucleotide sequences. Do you really care about the particular way in which you did digest lactose different from how I do it that you want to go to war with me? So do you we can spell the future using your version rather than mine, like maybe you'd you'd, feel this way about your ideas about. You know your songs here your stories, but really you really want to fight over like things that neither of us care, I don't follow. Look what what he's saying well, if you're trying to think about like I want to leave seven children right, okay, why do you want to do that

well, because I want to see more copies of myself. Well, you will see a certain number of copies of yourself, but that's going to get diluted very quickly by the time we get to your great great grandchildren. It's going to be hard to see yourself in your offspring, so that's sort of an illusion of one generation to generation's most of the things that are going to determine your jeans propagating have to do with the fact that you're on a team, there are a bunch of people who digest milk. The way you do and so the key question. Is you know, team Rogan on the milk digestion is some huge number of people. You've never met That's what I understand why I don't understand the connection to milk digestion. I it's just one thing your body is doing in a particular way uhhuh. So you know you like: let's take eye color, maybe that's worth okay, so you know. I know that I have a blue allele that is being suppressed in terms of its expression. Do I really care that you know my wife has two brown alleles

Does it matter to me that my blue somehow survives do I care that I wanted to survive enough against some brown eyed person be interesting. If you had a checklist of like what things that you would agree upon, like you and the wife get together and say, ok so. We do this better than ability. What do you think you know who side we go on with intelligence? Your little are the they going to give it to you. Let's go with: let's go with your brain yeah! I'm better at smelling things like how do you know I've just taken allergic to cats. Let's have none of the kids fucking sneeze. Every time they go near. A litter box was the great thing. Let's just flip a coin yeah. Let's do it a couple of times and whatever we get, we get yeah. I worry about, you know Crispr CAS nine people are going to be having these, like. Trade you this. For that we're going to have crazy yeah, I'm fascinated by crisper, I mean most people aren't even aware of it. People, like you, of course, are They're paying attention are, but I think to the general. Because no idea the crisper even exists, and it's potentially

world changing when you literally looking at the tools that will eventually lead much like You know, Alexander, Graham Bell's, invention, led to you having the internet in your pocket right slowly, but surely you're looking at the tools that will one day lead to US engineering, some complete, new organism that you're going to call human beings yeah, it's going to be a long time off. The thing Alexander Graham Bell was along time off and then I think. Well, I bet it's less time than that. Ok, when was that was at one thousand eight hundred what are the odds two thousand and seventeen to the late 1800s you don't in two thousand one hundred and seventeen we're going to behave, Fuckin', incredible hulks and Thor's and women click wonder woman. This is going to be a single troll like looking person left in the

I think, we're going to be able to do a lot of yeah. I think we're going to be able to do a lot more combinatorics of swapping something in that's known to work and swapping something out, but we actually get to like authorship were like ok, I got this great idea for a human being right, I'm going to start from scratch there's a there's, a lot of optimism that, for which I am the pessimist, you know uploading the mind to a computer, You pass a lot of Kurzweil's ideas, yeah well, not in the sense that we're never going to get anywhere close. There's this four thousand and forty five. That's what they're welcoming for

yeah, I'm optimistic about certain things that turned out to be a lot easier than we expected. I think that a lot of things that are, we thought were going to require artificial general intelligence are going to succumb to much simpler systems, and so you might have thought that, for example, if you played through the great chess games of the 1800s like Morphine Anderson and things, you might say: well, that's just a uniquely human activity and then you find out. No, no. Here's can trounce humans at the chest because it's not it wasn't what you thought it was. Maybe music will be the next thing to succumb, because that's really highly regular right for music is also intensely creative and emotive right it it sparks feeling in humans, and I don't think you could really. I don't know maybe you could, but I don't think you really could figure out a way to

engineer or have a computer engineer, something that makes you feel like led Zeppelin, the immigrant song. You know there's just like bizarre feeling to someone's art that through when you listen to it. You, like, oh this fucking great, you know like where I I don't necessarily know you could do that with and it doesn't understand emotions or is using a replica of emotions, where is chess? You know, you know a rook move. This way pawn can move that way. Here's the rules- this is how it starts. This is what once you get here. You're in check, like those things, seem pretty straight, board you're dealing with squares. It's very mathematic. You know, One person moves another one moves where like there's like, it's fluid nature to art, literature and music and comedy other half of that. I think I disagree really yeah I mean so I don't know why you

is the immigrant that that's like a lot it's on to them. You know why, because I'm gonna go to cryotherapy after this that's a song when I was a do, he has since been in development the hammer of the gods, which is a good song. So if we, if you taken if you taken Roy Orbison's, pretty woman, ok right so have the main riff from that song. Yeah I'd like to move one in down the stream over the room. Like do the comma, her dark after right with the riff is like do do. Do do do do do do do do it it it it it it it. So if you start guitar string and you split it into four equal parts and put your finger over one slash four of the string and then you start just plucking the string and hovering above the string, so you don't actually push it to the Fret board. Those notes occur naturally, as the harmonics in the

mission of the vibrating string so that those notes were not really chosen by Roy Orbison or whoever wrote the song. They were really chosen by like a fourier series, feels like it's a riff but over this, when I was in Indonesia, as I would start playing that and people would react. I thought like why that song, about more complex, creative and sort of improvisational song like voodoo child from Hendricks so I don't know about voodoo child from one hundred pound nine five, I mean well, you take care now and it changes up. So I can. If you look at the first couple of chords of Red House, there's like some seventh or diminished chord, I don't like his arpeggiate now and then he moves it down. One slash two step which has to do with this Tritone substitution and the symmetry inside

the seventh chord. So, if I recall correctly, you have a cord like see. E g b flat would be a c seven court and the Key- and they be flat, would form this thing called a tri tone. And now, if you went in the blues, either three elements of the chord progression, the dominant subdominant and the tonic, if you go down a half step, you effectively, invert, the third in the flat seventh us of you, go one half step below that. It's the flat seven from the third I think of the subdominant chord, so Hendrix is actually playing with math in something as basic as do you think he's aware of it or do you think he's doing it, sort of just instinctual well, first of all, visited by an alien intelligence we went through cuttlefish, now we've got Jimi Hendrix, so it yeah. That's like the these are the best,

alien sightings. We have right it's very hard to speculate, but I just looked at everything: I've been able to understand about what he did: you know you're dealing with a super mind as well as an intuitive genius mastery of the instrument complete you're standing of the chords and progressions, and just the ability to improvise and to make it sound, different, adding the Wah, Wah Pedal and all that distortion. Another show that he said and the fact that he imparts more into one note like I wouldn't even know how to notate what is even the instrument you play. The guitar he played the guitar amplification signal processing system as a whole yeah. So you know there are these people who are just in some

two dimensional space. Another one of my favorites is a guy named Roy Buchanan, who somehow these guys, who understand harmonics gravitate to telecasters, and you know Song called Roy's, blues and watch him just go into the multiverse and start playing with things that you can't even imagine are are possible. So I I do think that that the there's a very close relationship between algorithms and emotion- and I just did this one for an old tweet of mine, where I wrote a python pro ram that actually runs from the tweets of the entire program is in the tweet and its purpose is to generate the chord progression for Pocha Bells Canon, which is, if you want people to cry at a wedding, that's the chord progression to play, and so the idea that it's actually an algorithm

the breaks your heart. It is very frightening. Just what do you know what some say insane noise in the background here folks are doing some to our roof. This is the last day, days that were in the studio by the way, which is hilarious, that it's highlighting why we need to get the fuck outta here. I don't know what they're doing this too. I mean, does it even rain anymore, while they do it, fixing the roof, put a fuckin' tarp up their assholes. I even asked me right before the show is like what time do you tape? I told him he's like oh well,. That's right about the time. We're letting explosions right above your head, sorry for people. Listening to this, like with the puck, is that noise? That's! The noises they're banging around the roof pinned down by enemy fire yeah. Well, I mean, I think, it's also me as a as a human. I probably have some bias. Some stoop idea that create if it is impossible to recreate. You know that whatever it leads to a person being able to make some

beautiful song or create Some amazing book is impossible or some sort of a computer to figure that out on its own. Well, if you I would go ahead and hang out in a modern recording studio and watch them, move the beat around and mutated and change it or, if you think about like that moment, where share said, hey, I think auto tune should be used to correct my voice in a sly way, I'm going to use this as the instrument itself right and Suddenly this metallic voice, uhm actually isn't becomes an anthem. When you start Robo share is incredibly inspiring do you remember Peter Frampton. He was like one of the first guys use it in a song. Do you feel like I do well so use that that thing with his we had a tube in his mid. So he's really actually using his body to shape he's using the just like this five dimensional lattice in your in your mouth to

use the international phonemic alphabet, so your your nose could be on or off that's one degree of freedom they have vocalization on or off hope station, meaning you can have your vote like F, F as in Frank versus v, as in victory they're the same mouth right, but Well, you just vibrating it through it. So you can have those nasalization off vocalization, so is in the throat somewhere, Frank you fucking Boomer, like this s versus z, would be another pair. Ok, so the sound that you're making with with your throat right and you have like your lips and one of three positions. So that's a third degree of freedom. Then you're

tongue can be in one of five positions and it can be fully elevated, half elevated or not elevated at all. So there's like five parameter family that generates what's called the international phonemic alphabet, and you know one of the cool things to think about is, How could you create an instrument that naturally allowed you phonemic productions that you're not just doing these? You know simple ringing tones well there's got to be a way to DIS, recreated physically right. The just make an artificial head. I mean you just made an artificial head with. I mean it's not like. We do something that's impossible to recreate with a robot, ok but like in terms of if you take the collection of all major instruments. What comes closest to human voice, a lot of people. It's the indian violin called the sarong guy really yeah. You never check that out.

Damn? What's a sarong, a sarong is like a between to drown out the pounding on the roof. We'd win a surround, I've never heard of a sarong guy sounds bad assets. Strange. Violent is a strange violence, a lot of sympathetic strings, and you know, because of you, can power into a note if you, if I have a guitar and Pluck a string I'm just going to get decay unless I drive the sound right, but if I oh wow, look, how cool that thing looks yeah wow, louder, wow. Just try to imagine like a lot of those are sympathetic strings, so they ring when you hit the tone perfectly now

so, if you've never gotten into north indian classical music. This is today's your lucky day this is really cool. Wow, looking thing that it has three strings yeah, my guess I mean I don't recall but very Can you only turn it beat up amazing, like ROM Ryan, on this thing, he was like the ultimate others of ultimate. Goddess and the surrounding, I'm learning almost died and almost died out. It almost done yeah. I think it was like it was used for Gazal, singing and courtesans used to play with a Gazal singing goes like this type of of song to be popular in what would now be Pakistan in northern fifty. I decided to check this dude out

remember, Zamfir Master of the pan flute have those late night ads that that should died off quick huh. I am that old pan flute thing really never caught on This is way better than the pan flute I think this guy is groupies. I know he does. Does he teach yoga to seems like you would? Well, so you see the drums on the left yeah. So that's the Hubler and the by on- and that is the you know, I think many people would north indian, drumming to be the world's most advanced rhythmic system. Really yeah even even more than Africa. The speed of articulation goes at the speed of speech and, if you take the Hindi verb to speak Bolna, they have the system that they call. The bowls

to speak. The bowls is to say what you would instruct your hands to do if you were playing the drums. Well, look at him I've heard sounds like this before for sure like uh, fan of dollar mandate. High Wendy's, music, ok, get some cool music and he this kind of shift in the background a lot do you know he is right. I do not you don't know dollar Mendez should What is this song? The big famous song things called Tunak Tunak tune. It's really a badass song. It's I really love music, but I don't know what they're saying- and I I enjoy that because, just like you just kind of get a feel for the song, you have no idea what the actual words where they could be totally corny yeah, you know see if you can

find something like speaking the bowls for Tabla and you'll, see these guys doing this thing where they do Doug deduct it didn't cricket tonight at the doctor, you know what they do. Is that they create with their mouths everything that their fingers would do with their hands. So they connect that song that song that was just playing but totally cut off. This is it. This is him. Get got a badass had no idea what he's saying, Larry, hilarious, music, video to the music is like is any virus. It's him against him in this video, but he got arrested for like white slavery. Well, that's yeah

hello arrested, Jesus, what it was for like sex trafficking or something like that some kind of sleeve trap it sex slave trafficking or something like that. He was a part of some, I don't know, maybe he just Pist off the wrong guy in India, and I guess they fucking with with should charge you never know. You know we're. She's like that they can get away with a lot of shit. What is it brother just died. I guess oh it's taking over the news on his thing anyway. Sorry! So what does that? Does drums called again often just called tableau but tablas, the sort of soprano drum and then the by on, I guess you play with sort of the heel of your hands, you strike it and go boom boom, and I think that you know the world's best practice

this guy lives in Marin County now really soccer Hussein, who is the child of Allah rocker, who is like the bad of his time- and it's one of these things where I think you sort of have to be born almost into the family to have this past down, how do you know all this This is something you've studied for a long time. There is an amazing book, by any meal Sorel that I picked up in college and I just opened it up and it went through an entire performance of Indian called North indian, classical music, and I was just you know my my job was on the floor house there this in higher form of classical music, much closer to our jazz. So much more impressive, I mean visually to watch these drummers and one of these soloists like the soloist, will try to

lose the drummer in the drummers got these mirror neurons that can't be beaten. They'll just like follow him everywhere, and so you, just you know your some poor white kid in America say Nobody told me this existed yeah! It's really weird how we just choose like a certain series of instruments that represent rock and roll certain series of insurance or represent jazz. You know it's really it's strange when you think of the the the wall, wide range of musical instruments that exist all over the world that are just never utilized in modern music yeah, and I do think that uh we've become too complacent. We should be like Ian Anderson with Jethro Tull. Why? If you the flute, solo and locomotive breath. That'll get me every damn time. Why didn't? They couldn't take it off yeah? You know the clarinet was lossed to jazz used to be

incredibly dominant instrument and coming out of like the klezmer tradition, you know it rocked and then It sort of became this non thing, and at some point I saw God Tony Scott, who was like the last great clear, Madison Jazz, who went off to Japan to study Zen for years, and he came back for a birthday concert. He, blue Dizzy, Gillespie and Benny Carter off the stage I just think like I forgot clarinet can be the kick acid Yeah most people, think of it as something you're forced to take in high school yeah. But fundamentally that's that's where, like the uke, the ukulele Come back like crazy the ukulele, was a mexican instrument. That was reduce to Hawaii right is not working as I think it was it, but it guarantees it's a big. Ng in in Hawaii right, that's into the ukulele yeah. I think you came over with cattle ranchers. I think

was introduced to Hawaii by people who All over, like cowboys like, if I remember I might be butcher in the Story- Forgive me my hawaiian friends, but I think what it what it was was he had introduced cattle at some point in the history of Hawaii and when they introduced cattle there like hey. How do you keep these fucking things from wandering all over the place? So man we gotta, find some cowboys. We just had to do this ship and they that was either mexican or south american cowboys to come over. And show them how to wrangle these cows, how to corral them. How to take, rhythm and then, when they did, these cowboys came over and introduced the ukulele e, which is really kind of you know the Hawaiian in art in America. When we think about it, you know like a sound of like the we, we sort of think about that's like my daughters, musician and when Why Hawaii? I got a ukulele, you you know, and she plays it. We think about it,

in a lot of people's eyes, like a lot of like what we think of is asset hawaiian music is played with the ukulele yeah. So I think I thought that he thought it was. I thought it was like a porch, Google, they lay like jumping flea. So why, in name of portuguese instrument? What's that, that's a Wikipedia says they distributed to three portuguese immigrants and eighteen eighties that developed it from three other guitar like instruments from Portugal, because write a quick cover. Keynotes, that's the origin of the ukulele e, but how did it get to Hawaii as they were in Hawaii? They were in a why those guys were in the White House of the product wide, as the very guys made its way like a Pds says, there's nothing. We can I'll Brian towns. My brother and I have some weird is that I don't really have to is awesome

I just love the fact. There's a lot of people just added it like anytime, there's a podcast and something fuckedup happens. You go to the person's Wikipedia page, now, totally butcher it, amazing thing is: is that it works at all? Yes, that's that is amazing, right it is amazing. I never would have guessed that yeah right Some user edited thing that sort of what using also there's only one Snopes. You know there's only one like real well Well, regarded fact. Checking website like it was someone else they want to Snopes that right. I would yeah. I wouldn't anymore yeah. I'm distressful you'd stressed about distrustful distrustful of Snopes Well, do you feel like they're left, leaning or do you feel like they're, just not necessarily one hundred percent honest or what do you think well or you think the guide lot of hookers and blow blow is not really pay attention, sometimes the guys to history. But it's fucking hilarious, the guy. He just shacks up with some

escort and she becomes the the main editor or going somewhere MTV Branson. I think the one. I think that the iq needed to sort fact fiction at the moment is enormous. The amount of money you'd need would be yeah right, fantastic actually today, with hashtag fake news so I am feeling like I'm, witnessing the bye for whether any authority exists at all and the claim that you fact check. Has been synonymous with the fact that you're truthful, which is total nonsense.

If I accurately represent three people who were enough in a scene, and I and I leave that to others and services. That fact you know that that picture is fake, as in none of these three people, really where there is yes, but you filter it out those other things going to get. You can get to tell lies by leaving things out by insinuation. I have this whole Griffin frequently referred to as Russell conjugation. The other people call it motive conjugation. So you know the difference between Fink vs whistleblower is how I usually introduce this. You have technically synonyms in English, right, not substitute one for the other, yeah rat and whistle blower, don't yeah well with whistle blowers, the only

is usually one of the only because positive ones. Chelsea Manning is a highly regarded rat x. Okay, doesn't work the emotional state yeah, and so you know that the like another thing is to get somebody proximate to something very disturbing so Ben Shapiro, and I were in this article about how the alt right was outraged and we were like the two people cited. Neither would be outright you right, Jesus Christ, alright, things are weird, thing to define now it's a great game. You have to appreciate what it is. Ok, so if you, trying to silence the very small number of people who are probably your guests, uhm the right thing to do is to make sure that their proximate to lots of terrible stuff right so that people who too busy to sort things out so well, I neither condemn nor condone, because all your

trying to do is to model everything you need enough fear, uncertainty and doubt in order to get the job done, and so it doesn't matter that the article says in the banner headline. Alt right enraged and then the two people in a listed or like Jews who opposed Trump because when, when those articles are parsed, it shows up as well. You were in a bunch of articles about the all right, yeah, okay, so I get it you're, really not paying it. And the point isn't to inform the reader. The point is to tag that that? You wish to neutralize right, and so it's working very well. Do people, alright consider themselves alt right um, or did they used to and we know it's become sort of a pejorative right. So let's go through the the craziness here. Okay, as soon that you are not a Democrat right, not a Democrat might translate to

libertarian or republican Republican translates to right of center right of transgender translates to right wing translates to far right translates to all right. Translates to white supremacist translates to NEO Nazi translates to not see right, and so you. Have these very strange chains on the left, where Republican keeps eating into right because of this very weird things, Well, you said you didn't vote Democrat, so I can I say you're, right wing in your far right right, you're. Basically, all right she's, just Christ holy Crap, you just move somebody who's, a country club republican into being a gestapo agent. Yeah and is alt right necessarily mean white supremacist or that they conveniently glue Those two things together. I think Richard Spencer

considers himself alright. Well, I think he coined alt right, so he did so. You know the idea is white supremacy with a human face and a human face is supposed to Wyler. No he's turned is trying to change the is training. Come up with a friend version of nazi or white supremacists right, and so it's level that was a disgusting collectible masterstroke, but then alt right became the place you know, a lot of people who are tired of being told what to think and who to be started. Blurring these distinctions. So now you've got this frog, and sometimes you put a hat on the frog from the Nazi Sometimes the trump at right, and so the whole idea is like ok um for those of us who got used to those lines that we do not cross. Those are major transgressions uh.

Two other people there like. Why should there be a rule about a frog right? And so you have this discussion where you have people with terrible insidious, intent. People who are just clowning around and everybody is Mick. In in a way that nobody can sort out right, like the frog that check right. Yeah I mean if you really pay attention and I think, there's been some sort of a study done and what percentage of the frogs actually used for You know Donald Trump or racism or alt right and what percentage of the frog is used just for a goof, it's the majority is like feels good man type things the, but like I've, seen it sent too many nazi frogs during the election. Yeah right, you know, so that anybody could make one you make it not see and people have made. That seems Mickey Mouse, but you know we didn't use too. There's still a lot of stick

around reproducing swastikas with the color. Scheme and the orientation of the third Reich. Have you seen that the gay folks for what, for a very short period, time we're trying to call up the swastika enter until Rainbow Swastika take it back. Oh my gosh! Well it work. When you go to India right, you have swastikas pointing the other direction, with dots in them. And so, if you come from an American? Yes, you just triggered all his place up here, there's a place in chats worth. I believe that is in a very, very old, indian Temple that has swastika. And there's a large signed, but it's not it's swastikas, reverse swastika. Is a large sign explaining? You know hey, this is an ancient hindu symbol and we've had it for a long time and longer yeah, I mean my my guess. I haven't looked at the at the entomology, but I would guess that swap comes from beautiful in in sanskrit or something, and so you know the question about who

It is a symbol, belong to and when is when is it bowl When is it? You know that symmetry pattern? I have no question that you might find that free pattern in nature You know in in like ninth Century islamic ART architecture, some but you know the hexagon they found on top of Jupiter. You remember that the storm yeah, what if a swastika. Could you imagine instead of an axe, and there's a swastika on top of Jupiter Jesus Christ? you think, is really take out. Jupiter Saturn was it Saturn. Jupiter have been Saturn, but there was Some very bizarre pattern pattern. That's very strange yeah, but this uniform. I it's like pretty close to an actual hexagon or so yeah but isn't it is very weird that we get so wrapped up in symbols?

in symbols are so huge for us yeah, but but they are efficient, tions formation information know you know and then you lose. You know a symbol like you can lose the name um. You know like Dick. I just called her kids dick in gay right, yeah yeah. It used to be gay old time. The flintstones had a gale time. That was one of the last uses of gay. In that my grand Father claimed That the emotion of gaiety was lossed with the word. He claimed that there was actual an emotion that went with it. I don't when actually experiences anymore How about how we describe it that it This is sort of careless frivolity that it a certain sort of combination of like innocence, tinged with a little bit of mischief like sexual mischief really anyway, you know so

become aware of words that open up new territories like the concept of Sinnock in thai lots of people go through. Thailand come back and they need the word sin, which is the quality of fun that something has to have in order for it to be worth doing like did you pay your electrical bill? No, why? There was no sin in it. So that that was like it's a concept or quits, but you know coming right yet issue or in a Turkish has yucca mows, which is the trail of light. Left on the water by the moon right and so one You have a word for yah Camaz. It's very hard now to use it, even though nobody in an English speaking context knows about it. Just with the word selfie. If you recall, when that came and we'd seen all these weird pictures of like ladies and

you know, restrooms taking pictures of themselves in the mirror and you're like what the hell is that yeah somebody says? Oh, that's a selfie like got it! yeah right and then suddenly. That word was everywhere. So once we get the the symbolic compression that goes with the concept we become pretty dangerous, as a friend is so stupid. She has known selfie means so she takes, she put uses, uses selfie and somebody else takes the picture. Yeah I've been told her. She didn't have a fucking camera in her hand and she standing there with her hands on her hips. I would love to joke with you, but I have definitely used that selfie I've thought selfie when it's not a selfie at all, I mean it's just her picture of self? Maybe she set up the camera, maybe I'm the right Is it a selfie if you the timer on the camera and the step back season.

Suck me, I'm an asshole that helmet questions of our she's right, I'm wrong. Maybe she's gotta, maybe if you this ever husband. That's so dumb will just sit around. Take pictures of you, so you could put it on Instagram mean you basically programmed monkeys all you have a program monkey that will take pictures to extend itself exactly yeah yeah. If you, if you shoot a pheasant and you have a dog that will fetch that bird and bring it back to you still shut the bird, a pheasant yeah yeah. Do you know how they do that yeah? Hey you, you flush, the birds out with dogs, the birds go up in the should now the shot gun, the bird to the ground. The dog get It brings it back to you, but you shot it yeah, that's why they only come retrieve or something. Yes, exactly exactly we're learning a lot of let's, let's just go over. All we covered, no, no quiz, but they Howard. Why we're moving 'cause? It's a fucking earthquake going on on the roof.

Indian music cephalopods, sneaker mail. Sneaker, sneaker males yeah. I didn't know so many I didn't know about it's not like a common thing, though like everybody kind of knows, that's what a lot of male feminists are. They, like Sneaker mail still sliding in closer to proximity to the females by you know by I to too sort of espouse some ideals that they think would be more attractive to the females because they don't find them in nature, yeah and then the problem. Is that the ovulatory window comes along and suddenly there's a desire for something completely different and they go out some biker right immediately. Things like what happened I don't know it was strangely appealing yeah, step fuckin', Gene, Pullman, the God Dam, genetics they've got us yeah, but it is really amazing how we are conscious,

and we're we're aware of all these issues that we deal with, but yet we're still we're still at the it first. It's a certain stand at the whim of these genes of these. These polls that we have inside of us he has like the argument that people was make for why some people find like assistance living like those shows in Alaska, so oddly comforting, you ever see those shows you're really close to the environment. That brought yeah like Alaska, the final frontier, yes see that show that folks just live up in there absolutely related to that woman jewel? Do you know that beautiful singer jewel, remember it's amazing voice and she is related to those folks that live in Alaska and have this show where they I mean they live without Phuc up there with nobody around them. There are literally in just bombs. Nowhere alaska- I do that it's oddly comforting I'd love

those shows? I don't know why I love those shows. Well, I really do I think you might. I could see you doing that deliver like that. Now now I'd like to do in little bursts. Yeah, I enjoy a movie theater, sir, I like highway. I like to drive cars I enjoy television. I like a cookie in a home. Okay, I like doing that. I, like sitting down with electricity, I like all the trappings of civilization, but I do enjoy going to nature I've no desire to be a trapper in you. You know flying around a Bush plane landing places and checking my steel traps for minks and stuff yeah. Those are the folks, is that her in there. Obviously, I think super old picture of it. Is she one of 'em? Is she the girl with the red sweater yeah? I forget the name of the family killed Kilcher yeah. I think that is it yeah, but I mean these fucking people. They make their own houses up there. I like that.

And somehow another. She escaped notice problems in Venice now, someshit. My arch nemesis is this guy Garrett Lisi who lives in Maui Oh yeah, why you guys arch nemesis? Is you don't have one I don't think so. You should totally get one. What are they good for you? Well, first of all, lots of billionaires forgotten to have an r nemesis. You go to movies, about arch nemesis I don't know I pluralize, but it's like. It's definitely these things, almost nobody, has in your art. This has to be somewhat like you, so you know like there is tension that there should only one of now see I'm not in. There should only be one guy, I'm a tribal guy yeah I'm. I think you should gather up as many people that are like you and support each other, well

You do end up supporting your economics, you keep each other going right all right and in some sort of way right yeah I mean you. Definitely we definitely need some sort of competition. I definitely believe that so my arch nemesis took me out into the jungles of northern Maui I thought so really we wondered yeah, you know you have an anime and he says: hey man, you wanna go hiking Bro. I was down for because I just thought: look: I'm not sure that he's the one is coming back right anyway, we can go out on this trail and we're visiting this Phd mathematics in the jungles and it is without question the most mosquito ridden place. I've ever been married, yeah, it's just available now, yes, incredible, reinforced incredible and we

along this trail, and we went in hike like a mile or two in, and this guy has built Shangri la he's taking this river and he's always been there for like twenty thirty, forty years forty years has it's like a Phd in differential geometry. Differential geometry lives into this amazing durian tree. If you you know yeah we Damascus fruit. Durion is that yeah? That's not stinky fruit right. Why would you do that 'cause if you've ever had great durian it's one of the great pleasures of life? Really, oh, my god, so it stinks, but it tastes good yeah! It's like limburger cheese. Ok, that's a good analysis. So anyway, this guy who's built this, like Sala Terry World, that nobody is watching the performance for one, and it's like this naturally sculpted um wonderland that

lives in with all these mosquitoes that he doesn't notice Anders during trees. We can do mathematics, bodies not know some. This is because you are in their entirety yeah. While we can, you can't focus on that yeah convert thirty or he needs to get one of those Therma Cell's ever seen those things Oh there amazing yeah. If you go to anywhere, where the mosquitoes are particularly aggressive. 'cause like have you go to Alaska Alaska, one thing about Alaska. That's fantastic is the mosquitoes, are rabid, rabbit they're, like pitbulls bulls, my Nre went fishing in Alaska and I am not exaggerating in there now we didn't we sprayed ourselves up with fucking. Chemicals probably took a year off my life, but when you step The car I mean when we open and look at that, that's like legitimately what it's like. We open

shut the door to the car an within three to five seconds. There was one hundred mosquitoes inside the car, it's fucking, insane because they're only alive for like a month right, it's only warm enough for them to exist for short period of time, so insanely aggressive. So anyway, this product called Therma Cell, that outdoors people use, and what it is is it's like a small. Yeah. That looks like a large square like piece of gum or something like that and you, slide this blue pad under this screen, and then you ignite it by pressing a button. This little heating element goes off and it has like a little fuel canister that keeps this very tiny fire. It immensely small. You have to look in see if it's lit right. It's it's not a fire. It's like uh? This element is heating up this fuel. It takes a long time to go through a small canister, but it emits this very fine mist and this missed will keep

a like an eighteen square foot get out window text mom! I never goes dude. It is impossible to be in the outdoors with it. Without it, rather once you've had it. I found about it from my friends in Alberta. They they turn me on about it. They live in Alberta in the same thing in Alberta, the mosquitoes are super super aggressive 'cause. It's only warm enough for them to exist for short period time. I'm so glad I did this show Food a therma cell is amazing and you can strap him to your hip. You just put one on right there and you don't even smell it, but the mosquitoes don't want to have nothing to do with it. They just keep them. They try some like really they give up. I mean it's amazing. It makes a in the woods incredibly bearable a meet? My daughters wanted to camp in the backyard one night, there was bugs out There- and I said I got the solution when I got my thermacell- let that sucker put it there. Everybody is out out cold sleeping just no problems at all, bugs and civilians can purchase if you

it's not it's, not toxic. Okay, thank, but it's super easy to use. That's it right there yeah but thanks that blue thing in the top. That's a piece of The therma cell, the chewing gum, looking stuff these slide under that screen and when It gets used up. That blue thing becomes all white It's so easy to use. Math like go to like come Chukka just to try it out. They have a large one. There that looks like a lamp, see that one that looks like a lamp up there, fuckin' dude those things are push it, as I hate mosquito, Therma Cell is the way to go, I'm I don't like Google, the negative consequences. You see that see that one he's got like pouches on side of the container and one power chewed like you're, a little extra fuel canisters. On the other side, you probably have some of those little extra therma cell pads, but one thing one of those little blue things last like eight hours, so I mean one of the great question. Some of the most beautiful land in a place like Maui

is mosquito written yeah and so that work could you change the land value Burnham all the time, and I don't know if it's something you want to breathe in all the time. Okay, yeah, I just don't. I don't know enough about negative consequences, but I've used them a Entre times and they've. Never even give me a headache or anything find out of whatever Zend Thermos cell is like say for long term exposure says you're not supposed to use in a confined space. Okay, there is some sort of stuff, you're, obviously breeding in yeah for sure, but Herman known remiss in Paramus N, I don't know nothin, you know I have a bass. This before, but when we were kids and read comic books, but like radiation, they always helped people turn people into Fuckin'. Superheroes yeah never hear that in real life yeah you have to get lucky and get like some home iotic mutations, so you've got like yeah arms coming out of your head. Never does anything good, no, no, not well meditations and bugs really cool, yeah and bugs, but I mean in

in human beings like, but I guess the Chinese experimented with that yeah? That was the thing about crisper. That's going to bring up earlier for sure, they're doing that right there making humans yeah, I mean that's the thing about like having S. Ethical, moral stance on the use of something like Crispr to genetically alter fetuses, yeah that, if you do that you really, if If you have an opposition to altering embryos like that's immoral, it's not do not a beating heart o s here with the problem. They already passed that the Russians don't give a funk about that. You see that movie Icarus! No god! Damn you to see that movie. I had Bryan Fogel on last week, who is the director and producer of this documentary on the doping? The Russians, sponsored doping program, russian stone hey dude, they don't play

They had a state sponsored doping program that was kind of over seed by Putin like down the line like the direct chain of command the whole entire russian team is Sochi was on drugs all of a The guy who engineered the whole thing like the main scientist is in the United States. Now under protective custody in hiding and Putin, is trying to dragon back to Russia by stealing the the. Comes from his family, stealing, his wives home turn him into homeless people in some of to get him to sacrifice himself to come back for the health and safety of his family. Remember what happened when Saddam did that it didn't workout. So good yeah. Cell phone video. That's when you know you locked up the cell phone in video footage of your execution. So that's the doms execution, but I think he learned his son and his son in law's back. Like don't worry, it's all forgiven, the sudden loss came back and they really was. The yes- and I was pretty skilled in

this is a difference to a situation that none of the self I mean. If that would that was a very strange situation, because he actually was the only guy was like his together when he was being. Yeah? He understood the game. He accepted the yeah, it's like right, but so he's, probably like Jesus Christ, how many people die kill. I guess I think after you've killed yeah people, you probably like, I probably deserve it, yeah I'm going well, Did you ever seen that Christopher Hitchens narrating, the original bath party. I don't know what to call it. Theatrical video where, like half the bath party was called out as being revealed and then the other half of the bath party was giving given sidearms with which to execute them, making them complicit in the founding murder. And there was all I'm aware of this, but I didn't know the Christopher Hitchens narrated it well, he

something where he he brought it to prominence, I think I was aware of it with just arabic and I couldn't tell was going on and then he actually said. Ok, look. You have to appreciate well, this is a topic that I think it would be good to talk about. I don't know that I've ever talked about it, but message. Violence is the glue that keeps a lot of societies together and we don't study it or talk about violence that is specifically construct to be theatrical um like public beheadings, lonely man yeah. That would be it kind of message, violence or, for example, forcing families to pay for the ammunition with which there members were executed to make them complicit and emphasize their weakness. All of this stuff. That the mind goes to horror movies,

to explore is often used structurally particular in the Middle EAST. So you know ISIS, for example, the jordanian pilot video, which I find that many people haven't seen the

whole point of it was that the pilots were raining down, death into particular forms, rubble and fire when people in the ground and ISIS captured one of the jordanian pilots and decided that they would theatrically execute him with a version of exactly these two things that he was meeting out from the air, and so the whole point of it was to create the cinematic imagery um, to see her into people's mind what it meant to oppose ISIS. That ISIS was, in fact just in this sort of I for an eye kind of way, and you know my belief is that we don't understand the role that message. Violence plays in part because

now denying it. If you think about Vietnam, we have all of these images that were burned into all of our minds, with Pulitzer Prize winning photographs, but in the modern era you don't have images like that from like, because there was a there was a decision that we could not afford. In some sense, to have the kind of opposition that we had to Vietnam when people suddenly said wait a minute you're doing what, in my name there's an issue that is always puzzled me and This issue is people lean left, Will they consider themselves progressives, have very distinct, very obvious bias against criticizing Islam, criticizing islamic terrorism, criticizing Islam, suppression of women. You know the criticizing these cultures right under

for the guys of not wanting to promote Islamophobia and things along those lines? always wondered how much of what that is is a fear of reprisal of speaking out against them is terrifying. So what they do instead is embrace the the cultural differences that these people exhibit concentrate instead on the positive aspects of their community and the good things about muslim culture and islamic culture, and not really does not. Bring it up at all like you, we very rarely hear people on the left talk about how oppressive and horrific some of the conditions that women and homosexuals are forced to live in in. In muslim cultures always wondered if that's what that is like there's a feat, because no one in modern hey. No, I don't ideology is: more brutal. In the reprisal I mean they kill, apostates right to kill people who

If you join, you can join. No one stop right the whole idea of a spread Islam. Is that you should be proselytizing, you should be getting people join, because it is the only truth is the only way to go, but once you do You're in thank you do not How to leave? First of all, Let's actually do this one. I think it's important, but they didn't start that we Jews started this so far as I know, so the you Tyler! No, no! No! No, we don't. We don't proselytize, but the once you're in you're in really yeah. If you go Iran to me, I think I said something to the effect of. If someone comes to you and says: hey, let's worship, gods not known to the fathers set upon with the stone before anyone else gets there. What are you supposed to do that? to someone who is already converted to if you're in, if you're, if you're in and somebody says, hey, let's go worship other gods, you're supposed to kill him. What, if the interesting so

so it's an old idea, it's an old idea and it's not in islamic idea. It's a jewish idea. In my opinion, ok, but it does exist today, primarily so I asked my rabbi about this and she and she said Yahoo email Rabbi, you progressive, Motherfucker, you look at you know. I have actually I like it. Proud of this. I have a rabbi who happens to be female. Okay she born female or is them she's, all woman, all rabbi, allegedly they're, all women. Caitlyn Jenner, is all how many incendiary topics do you want to know. Let's just turn everything up to eleven. I do ok come on man, I'm a comedian. Alright, I don't have a boss in three minutes, I'm about to be a target. Ok, your note female rabbi. So

point was yeah. We don't execute anybody because in in effect, that portion of the code never runs so the Jews have figured out how to have bad code. That is permanently inoperative. If I could stop you there for a second one of the unique things about Jews, is that there are so many jewish people that I know that still can did themselves jewish but are almost totally atheist. Yeah, like my friend, ARI He was doing this video recently. Where are this podcast recently was. We were doing this challenge where we can't drink or smoke pot or do anything for a month, and we have to do fifteen hot yoga classes and he's going crazy and screaming during his podcast I am a jewish performer and I live in New York City. I'm supposed to be doing drugs, I'm supposed to be drinking. I like drinking, but he's he's the biggest atheist, I've ever met in my life or, if not an atheist, he

certainly at the very least agnostic. At the very least, she's, definitely not someone who considers himself a religious person, but he was he was and he escaped the claws of it when he was young, but it's Jews. Many times Think of them. It's almost a tribe, much is it is a religion like if you get down in and corner most Jews that I know about like Much of the time do you follow how much? How much of the old testament do you think is legit. How much of the the these these teachings? Do. You think you're imperative for everyday living. There's a vast majority I really don't want to have they're not connected to any I think, if you met anybody following the old testament, you wouldn't recognize them as a Jew right right like we have to kill the apostates. I used to live in an old ultra orthodox neighborhood in Jerusalem and the I was writing on the Sabbath. My final list for leaving and the kids in the

next door started shouting in Hebrew. It is forbidden to write on the Sabbath, kill him and the parents had the concept, knock it off. Like the ultra orthodox pairing. So they wanted to kill you because you're writing, because it was literally that's that was you know. I was violating a bunch, a little monsters now, mom's is the word you're looking at the bastards anyway yeah, so Jews are big into observance, but part of the relationship. Is you get to question things that are much deeper level than in most religion and you know I would say no six or seven rabbis well enough to ask the question about their belief structure. None of them believe in the character of God, from the old testament So how do they sort of rationalize the whole thing? Well, that's the point is that you know you have layers of abstraction

and you know if you're really stupid. For example. Do you believe that the Supreme Court is nine black robed? super geniuses who can channel the original intent of the founding I think the wizards yeah, ok just like wizard. Well, then that's it. I mean you there's a grown up way of loving your country and there's uh. This way of loving your country and there's a grown up way of believing in your religion and childish. One and the this one is like cats, all literally, but what is the grown up? believing in a religion? Well, I mean in part, and it's got a lot of hidden instructions. It's not resolved so that you have these sort of dialectical, tensions that see if, like ethical guidelines, as opposed to like don't tell you down from on high and giant stone tablets. Well, you know not kill, but Thou shalt,

kill has to go up against an admonition to kill right right These things are not resolved and they are, it may work. Swim back upstream, to your original point about Islam. It will leave here before we do. We leave Israel or Jews sure there's an end. To this, and I used to know it, but I forgot it. What is the reason why so many european Jews have won Nobel prizes. So many european Jews are insanely intelligent, like is there. You want the modern social justice answer. It's because we cheated physics. I don't want it answer. It's a that's! A silly answer! No! No! No they're smart like why Why are so many insanely intelligent people, european Jews um? So it is hard for you to answer. Being a Jew yeah, a little bit like, if you asked me, ok well. Let's, let's do a different one: okay, okay, so

one thousand, eight hundred and ninety seven ten one thousand nine hundred and eighty seven. All of these different countries, winning the Boston Marathon and then from nineteen eighty seven to the president. Basically two: it's right: Kenya and Ethiopia. Maybe a korean guy wins it or something um. Why is that? Well now you have this really uncomfortable thing, is culture- is that that those guys in EAST Africa just have heart? Is it because they will the rent is to school every day. Twenty six miles people said that mentors at the take the bus like everybody else, so there can be a genetic predisposition in trade off space if there can be a cultural premium. So when you have the top marriage prospects, you may turn them off to the to the richest or the smartest. So in Judaism there is some.

Good way in which intellectual prestige proxies for material wealth to. If you is insanely smart, not very rich. It can be very prestigious to marry. Your your daughter, let's say to that student of the Torah so there are all sorts of cultural, strange aspects of this is because money lending was prescribed forbidden to Christians, that this particular facility with mathematics was highly selected for when no he also was selecting for it. You know I don't know what the answer is, but I do know that um, like in my case, getting a ph in mathematics is an ivy league education for that were in, on my brother's case, giving up an ivy league education to make a point standing up for social justice. These are sort of self destructive things. In my

Cultures standing up for social justice against Social Justice warriors will not allow in his in his one thousand nine hundred and eighty seven he stood up because uh jewish fraternity was using black strippers for sexual entertainment to lower in incoming freshmen, and he said okay, this, is you know this is some sort of class oriented thing more works, eating. This is a different situation. I don't know so. He had to leave Penn University Pennsylvania under death. Threats Wow, so this is the great irony of my brothers situation is that people don't know who your brother Brett Weinstein is a Weinstein Harvey Weinstein, Bret Weinstein right Brett was the guy. That was the part of the whole Evergreen College fiasco he's been on this podcast twice: I'd suggest if you're interested you could either

girls name and get the story from a multitude of sources or listen to the original podcast, where he sort of laid it out. It was before the settlement with the college before he wanted, leaving Ann you know. I really hope that he goes the Jordan Peterson Route, meaning that he starts putting up these pictures and some of these ideas that he has just putting them up online may just putting videos up, and you know I know he's got a patreon page now correct yeah and that which is great way to do it too, but Jordan is making more money from doing that than he ever did from college yeah for teaching university. I want to support you know. The other thing is that we have to make the case because he can't, because it will look wrong right. Higher this month, yeah. I heard that mother yeah and he's amazing he's a straight up genius. I have a recommendation for him from his old adviser, who, I think you know said, he's the top stew

in forty years of advising and just we have to recognize that if you want this stuff to stop, you have to make it not pay to drive super smart people who are courageous enough to be open in their thinking and his shirt. I'm sorry could you go yeah and you know to share their thoughts and fundamentally, if we drive these people to extinction, it's on us, and so my question is Hey University of Chicago Harvard Princeton Stanford: where are you yeah? I mean People are terrified of repercussions right side of the. They think that he's a he's, a guy from Evergreen state, so he's lower rank You know, let me let me use my tiny mega to say, he's, not lower rank he's on believable believably, smart.

Look at his work on elongation of Tila in laboratory animals, where he predicted what Nobel laureate Carol Greider found from first principles that the mice that are being used to test our drugs, have wildly exaggerated telomere here, giving them amazing capacities, is the logical repair button pop, possibly putting drugs to market that shouldn't be there. This is somebody you want to be taking intellectually serious and stop treating us like the clown act that they're running- and this just happens to be a Evergreen College is an amazing example of what can go wrong. If you let these crazy children sort of dictate the way, human beings are allowed to behave and the way this course takes place on campus to the cliff notes. What I was going to say, they wanted to have a day of absence. They traditionally had day of absence where people of color would take the day off to school, for where people would miss some sort of like didn't,

You know that in LA day, without Mexicans was a movie right. It was shut down. Just tell you right now, ls shuts down without Mexicans mexican to butt, but instead of doing that, the social justice warrior mentality that thinks that every white man is some sort of an oppressor and you need to figure out a way to eradicate them from the world. They decided to the opposite route enforce white staff and white students to stay home. Your brother rightly protest. Saying that is inherently racist, like what you're proposing is is. Anti racist, yes he's and- and the problem is, is that the diversity movement, which is now become the equity movement is actually racist, racist against white people. I mean I only want to say it's wrong, race. In a racism against white, it's openly racist, reverse reaction. There is either racism or knowing racism that whole proposal that Ray

is it against white people as reverse racism? Let's just hope this is a cult in the way you know that it's a cold is you ask for the definition of race system and if somebody tells you its power, plus prejudice and therefore certain groups can't be racist. Because They have no power. That's how you know somebody's in the cult, because if you look at in the dictionary it doesn't say anything like that another one would be. Gender has nothing to do with sex go to the ox. This dictionary look at the difference between 3A, a three b. Gender and sex have been closely tied and sometime in, like the nineteen 40s couple of fields in the, U S started using gender to be behavior sex to be. You know that which is your dedicated genotype, phenotype What is going on is that these people are change the definition of words in order to push a cult into the exact, swear. It must not go. It must not go

in the diversity office. It must not go in hr. You cannot have this openly racist openly sexist called in the place where it the, which is the immune system yeah. So that's, that's, that's. The key thing is is that we're used to thinking of our immune system as being there to protect us, but if you think out an autoimmune disease. It's when your immune, system starts attacking the self that you're in real trouble. So learn the signs and learn the tells you don't have to sign up for Jordan. Peterson Postmodernism just ask somebody whether black people can be race it's against whites and as soon as you hear power plus prejudice, you know you're talking to as soon as you hear the gender and sex have nothing to do with each other right. Recourse to dictionaries, and you start talking about the history and somebody starts well. That's your white fragility as your white privilege. Why are you in denial? Why aren't you accepting Allyship

Ok, so suddenly it's like ok, Z, new in the volcanoes in the clams again yeah it is yeah. It is and well one great evidence about that. Was this whole Google memo thing the Google memo thing. The Difference between what that guy actually wrote on the memo and what was published in so many different publications. Somebody different on my website, it's just yup libelous like that guy, if I know he's going to sue Google, but he could probably sue a host of people once he's done with that 'cause they changed what he wrote. Turned him into this horrible evil, sexist person to the point for the CEO of Goo, too brother was saying that she she read it and it made her sad at the whole thing meter sample, he wrote up a peace based on Why people of different genders are more inclined to gravitate towards specific things. He made an error. How was The error that he made was that he used a reserved term neuron

system, the big five personality inventory where it is a reserve term denoting. Particular psychometric, and so, and then saying men are less conscientious, than women women are more in the reason women are more neurotic. I actually brought that up with that. He regretted it. Did bring that 'cause. I told him, I said: that's my only criticism. Like that's a draw Tori term. But again you know I had not quite remembered the big five personality inventory you know is openness, conscientiousness, extraversion, agreeableness and neuroticism, but You know when you see something that careful I mean most people just didn't read it. They went with like the headline right. So that's the first thing. You should guess somebody that Smart is probably using a turn. If I say moral hazard to you and you don't know economics you're going to think oh wow, what is the moral hazard that, like reefer? there's nothing to do it. That's a reserve turn right. So if I keep talking about rent seeking or moral hazard, and I'm talking about landlords,

you know, or somebody offering your kid to do be after school, right right right. So so that was like the first intellectual failure. I I just have been dealing with this. Where I talk about power laws in statistics, which is a particular type of probability, distribution. Somebody says she's. The power powerful people in our country are so protected and privilege. Why don't we? Why do we need laws to protect them like what you said? Power law like that has nothing to do with There used to be this character on Saturday night LIVE and whose name was Emily Litella played by Gilda Radner and they bring her in. She was hard of hearing them. What's all this

I hear about the death penalty. The death have problems enough as it is, and that should refer to minutes in the death penalty and that's entirely different, never mind. So she was trying for that. Remember my limbs on television classical music killer. Radner was awesome. She was on Roseanne, I resented Diana. You couldn't do any of this stuff and more you couldn't you really couldn't yeah, but it's dumb selling back to the more thing yeah, okay, checking our tree and it's exploding here the thing about what he did was: he was trying to write a pro diversity memo, if you lie about the differences between men and women, what are your odds that you will be able to hack a solution to get getting all the brilliant women in our country who care about stem into the work workforce This is what we need to do. There's no shortage of brilliant women. You know, I call with them. I know they're there we need to

you're out as a society? Do we need to pay women more so that we can get them out of working in the home and taking older, the young children during their prime years? We need to be very creative about the actual differences between men and women. We have a rule, not equal pay for equal work, but equal pay for unequal salary negotiation. If don't, sell twenty. Please please elaborate on that, because that is an issue with why women sometimes make less than men, is that they do they have the same sort of aggressive salary negotiating tendance. Is that a lot of men do aggressive testosterone, driven sort of I mean there's all sorts of things that you know. I again I don't want a man splaine any cut. That is not a big issue too. I mean but look at check all right short story called the new income poop in which its the an employer and the domestic worker in his home

and he talks to her about all of her wages and then he starts taking away little bit by little bit. For you know, you broke a cup and you were a little bit late and he whittles her compensation down to nothing and she accepts it. And then he says the employer says you you stupid cool I've just cheated you out of your entire wages. I'm going to them to you, but understand that this is how an employer cheats, an employee and you just like whoa right. So this is an old russian speaking, a truth which is don't allow yourself to get taken advantage of now. You could say: that's really horrible, because it's called the nincompoop right or you could say. Actually that was an attempt to talk about problem about needing to be more aggressive and more assertive? So you know getting back to the to the to the DA more issue

do more needed to set this thing up a google differently. So I took my son to the local pinball arcade and just think of it as a bunch of workstations where nobody's getting paid instead you're paying for the privilege of staring at this thing for hours with the bells and lights doing something with ball. Mechanical systems, there no they're, not a lot of women trying to integrate the pinball arcade because it's a loser activity right, that's how this is for losers, I play pinball, I'm a loser. I know this. And owns a pinball, arcade yeah it's. Pinball in hurt me no. The point is this is something which is low prestige. It's anti compensated yeah and it's complicated we're pointing right. It's just like you just plug in into the machines. So my point is: is that

what do said? Was it's not cognitive ability? You idiots it's interesting temperament, which is hugely liberated. Right, if it's not basically cognitive ability, if men smart as women, but men can do something for hours and hours, often uncompensated in a kind of robotic mono maniacal tunnel focus kind of away. Is that Necessarily a great thing: what happens to be compensated now? It's only thing. If that's what you choose to go into for a career, I don't I program, and I hate it not all programming? What do you want to do? That Nghi Indian violent? Thank because all spend hours doing something like that right. But the point is: is that coding turns me into like this autistic spectrum guy. I get speech app, again, I don't want to say anything against.

Do you is so like? As you, the more you get into coding, you only to sort of adopt a code, mines and started talking to me, while I'm coding all right, he said, hey you wanna, go for beer, I'll start say, maybe later really yeah. Like if I'm doing some being annoying- and I'm distracting you from your exactly right- I see you is annoying. Yes, I'm try follow me as annoying to have that helps if you're doing brazilian Jiu Jitsu. When I come in and say, hey Joe, we might go out for a beer like I got my hands: full choke, bro yeah, so the issue. Is that of us. You know who have mail hardware, mail software recognize that we get obsessive. Compulsive not always thinking about reward right

it's not necessarily the most attractive set of characteristics when I do math, I'm definitely wildly on the spectrum and I'm proud by the way I'm proud of it. It's not like right in now it's not drug, Tori Term and you're actually talking about yourself when I'm socializing. Yes, I'd like to think that I'm fairly normal, fairly normal fairly normal when I'm doing math yeah? I don't want to be right. I want to kill that problem. I want to think through the think I want to have that theorem on that way, I'm not on the spectrum in any way, but I'm that way with writing for sure, if I'm right Someone came over to talk to me like yeah. I can talk you know. I mean I mean that my own, my wife, will come over and she'll say wow. You really sharp with me like what I barely even What that you work process needy now, well. The thing is: is that we've collaborated on you know she brought geometry from

quantum field theory into economics, and so at the level of you know, she's really. She occupies brain space with me, but she will kick out of that space kids need something, whereas I'll just say, I'm sure the kids will be fine. It's just you know, years old, Eric yeah they're not going be able to take care of themselves right, you know, and and so she'll have a much more. She as has her compassion running, whereas I can turn it off turn it on for periods of time when I'm focused there are these differences, and you know I think we need. We need to impart to teach women how to under deliver delivery. Yes, how so well, if you can't risk under delivering, then you can't shoot for the you know you can't swing for the fences Often you want to make sure that you're going to be able to not disappoint so very often like hey. I thought I could do it didn't quite workout. It's going to take another couple of weeks. That's uh

good way of putting it, though 'cause, that's a results, oriented way of putting it instead of an ambition oriented with trying to say like if the real secret of life is over promise over deliver. I don't think it is, though, so it is assumed that you lose out when in a bid, if somebody else is going to promise more than you and then, if you can't over deliver given that you've already over promised. Then you can't actually delight people so that they're going to want to do multiple go rounds, but that's like the economy of bullshit, though, like do we really not even promote that like. Why not just be. Why Why not just be honest about what you can do, because you don't know what you can do you know this is the thing that I opened honest about what you think you can do: no, no, ok, let's use it in a practical sense? Okay, like layers, lots and lots of bring you a car, and I say, hey man. I think the transmissions gone this fucking thing. Do you know how to fix one of those things you like? Definitely I know how to do it

I can do it, but meanwhile you don't write want to go to you ma'am. Well, I went to the guy down the street number you've given in there for twenty five years used instantly given in the car. I've asked you now. Okay now lied to me. Now I go home the card message. I don't know what I'm doing I'm trying to open this thing. I don't know right I better learn transmissions fast right. So now I the crazy mode, because now I'm terrified this call crossing the adaptive valley. Would, if it's something you can't learn fast like brazilian Jiu Jitsu quote. If I come to you- and I say: hey, are you? due to expert Eric Yes, I am I okay cool. Will you meet me in two weeks and we're going to Jujitsu, and you have two weeks to go: fucking, crazy and learn all you know about you just say. So. What we're talking about now is This is not a trivial skill, transmissions is not slow down. Okay, you have to be able to have a feel for what adaptive valleys you can cross

Okay, I see we sank right so so, if your other arm, if you say like hey, I could run this country country. And I run businesses, Brazil, so yeah yeah, yeah, then you're going to have a problem because you, We have to learn Washington in order to run right if you have no plan. Do that then you're, just bullshitting your way through everything like hypothetically, like this Ipad, this situation. Hypothetically, ok now, but my point is that there are lots of things that don't have those characteristics where something is really hard, but you may have to invent something in order to get out of it. So there's no dumb enough to get in smart enough to get out is kind of the magic formula bite off more than you can chew. But if you actually, you know feel called

you can summon the will. You can summon the intellect. You can summon your friends your resources to somehow get across the adaptive value. And the problem that leaves open. The possibility won't be able to get across that valley, whereas put someone who is an expert in the field he's worked very hard to apprenticeship through schooling, whatever it is, to get to become an x people can tell you definitively. Yes Eric. I can fix your computer, I fix heaters for a living. I know exactly how to attach a Motherboard board, let's at least agree that you're making the point that you know over promise. Don't under deliver yes, but we all know that we all know that we all know that. That's the general good advice so bye. Advising women to do something that they should? But here's the problem? the more women that over promise and

Your delivered, the more where people are going to you know: it's not want a fuckin' sure these chicks they don't deliver. I don't think that's right. I don't think. I think that what's happening is that there are certain characteristics, that are very valuable in low variance processes. There are certain things that you want every time to workout, ok, right, well, Childers, child rearing, your particular kinds of surgery. Yes right, it's simple, appendectomy. I don't want to get fancy just do the appendectomy and don't screw it up right. Ok, ok, so those are low variance processes. Now you've got some crazy conjoined twins that nobody's ever seen before right and the question is: what are we going to do right? Well, do you think that that is potentially within your ability, even though nobody's ever successfully pulled it off before you have to over promise to some extent,

like there's, a guy is going to try to do a head transplant. You know we. We had head transplant with monkeys in the early 70s, Robert White or something yeah. So just came out of Jim Watson said. This thing, which I think is just brilliant, which is, if you're going to do something amazing, you are by definition I'm qualified to do it. That's what's in real, quick and wants, and that's right now. The point was that those guys did not know enough bio chemistry to do the double helix. But why do you think that's good advice to give to women over promise over promises understand it? If you cannot over promise You may not be able to win a bidding war for the right to do a project. If you're playing it very, very safe and other people are saying I can get that done faster and cheaper

see. The cynic in me says: you're telling people to bullshit. I'll be up til gates. I like to know whether or not someone connected to deliver on what we're talking with Bill gates talked to IBM. He didn't have an operating system. He said that he did that created a panic situation. How often do you have a product, and you announce the date the product before the engineering is done, but are you talking about outliers liars. You talking about people pulled things off that you know the average person probably doesn't mean how many people talk all right wayside. How many people do over promise, and this is what I'm trying to get it, which is. If you value regularity, then under promise over deliver right. If you value Shackleton, like outliers, you may have to over promise and over deliver. So that way, okay and you may have to risk over prom sing under delivery.

I think women absolutely so. Women are people absolute. They are much like. Am I hiring chicks, I'm going, Byron checks for the reason you're telling them to not be the way they are, but we're failing to communicate. You know another now, I'm just I'm just playing devil's advocate in picking you apart a little bit. That's ok, but I think other is when you start hearing, people say why aren't there more female founders of billion dollar, plus tech companies My feeling is that a lot of those people who do found such companies are this kind of fast and loose outlier, idiom and very often females, specifically because the crazy demands of child rearing, which is like something you cannot screw you have to be on all the time you have to be incredibly regular. Have

very strong ethic of not screwing up branches positive. I don't want to say that it's negative, but I'm not saying that it's made. What I am saying is that, if you are not happy, because you were not represented in the outlier category- understand that screwing up is not a behavior pattern that leads two outlier level results. I see what you're saying you were saying so they almost have to go away from their natural instincts and adopt a different pattern of behavior. To achieve extraordinary success. Yeah I mean I would like to tell a lot more men: hey. You can't keep promising and failing to come through yeah. So you know it would be better if we had higher regularity from some men who chronically over promise the chronically under deliver, and we had more women who were trying to swing for the fences. If the feeling is why are we not represented at the highest level of certain kinds of activities? So, alright,

so what I'm trying to get at is that we are not currently feeling safe enough to have these style of converse. Where we're saying look to what extent Are we holding ourselves back? Are we holding you back? What is that we need to be doing or what we talking about the glass floor as well as the glass ceiling, so the bricklayer unions, the a famous example where, if you look for pictures of bricklayers, you'll generally see a bunch of guys very few women and there's no complaint These have not been integrated, so there are ways in which you don't find. The pinball arcades? You don't find them in bricklayers unions, and you find fewer of them founding you know multi billion dollar tech companies. So how do feel about that. I don't know I mean the key question is: if

want to see change. You have to be risking having a real conversation about these things that would do more tried to do was to decouple intelligence from this problem and say it's much more temperament, an interest in the person Who made that point on Dave Rubin show a month before the Google memo leaked was my wife and she didn't get attacked this she said: look you know I was in an incredibly you know, basically, an all male environment. I wasn't happy because of the temperament and interest when it got highly competitive. I didn't want to spend my energy and my time fighting. She has. She has like a Nobel quality result in economics and her feeling was. It's just

worth it to get into some multi decade. Pissing match with incredibly powerful people now. My feeling about this is those guys are going down. We're gonna fight them. You know, I'd MIKE a book came out called the Physics of Wall Street that I encourage women to read the chapter, called a new Manhattan project and the epilogue discusses her contribution, and you know in fact we sort of walked away from it in part because she didn't want to go to war and there's nothing wrong with not wanting to go to war. But that is a very big temperamental difference. That is not a cognitive difference and that's what I think the more was saying now, I think you and I would both agree- that we would never want anyone to discriminate against women for a job that they're qualified for and they're looking to get into if they're good at we would like to see. People who would

like to see a equality of opportunity right more than that. More than that yeah I mean you think about how many women are offline and you think of it as like. Just stop thinking about in terms of like so she good and think yeah like an oil field that hasn't been tapped, they're neural, allowing us to resend children, I'm far as numbers Henschel right. You you're just talking to Jews in physics, so one one percent of the world's population of one hundred and twenty five percent of the Nobel Prize in Physics or thereabout right very few. Asian females have Nobel prizes. If, if I were trying to figure out, with oil fields, I wouldn't go to Texas to try to find more oil because I figured it would be pretty well picked over. I try to find some other place. It's like I'm, going to find great waves, not in Hawaii but go to the arctic right. So, let's say asian females, heavy which percentage of the world's neurons basically untapped. If you want

like tons of money. If you want to cure cancer, if you want to do all these things figure out how to bring those neurons fully online. So it's not just a question of nobody wants to keep them out, there's a huge prize to be one for figuring out the puzzle right, but it hasn't not been proved that gender and sex have a role in what people are attracted to or interested in. So why should we assume that, just because we have these systems like whether economic systems, whether it's you know, starting a business or whether it's working in tech, why should we assume that women would want to do that? Why should we courage them to do that, if they're not interested in it, and why do we put so much value in it just because it generates incredible amount of money? Do you do you think that maybe we what we're looking at is natural patterns, natural patterns. Where I mean this is the more argued that men gravitate towards certain things more often than women- and that was one of the

That was so disturbing to me that was overlooked about his memo. He had a full page and a half dedicated To trying to encourage and did various ways to try to encourage women to get an attack right, nobody talked about that. The other thing that they didn't two is no one. Men would no one, but many of the people that, published his work and took sniper, of it. They didn't publish the citations right for the bill. We are yeah which is like Reno, it's it's funny now. Yeah, it's immoral, but it's what it is is back to your cult analogy. These people are in a call And this was a challenge to to the ideology of the cult, so, but but let's look at it from the felt experience in the felt experience. If you if you've already struggled as a woman against incredible odds to be in tech to begin with, you know that, there's somebody whispering and she's not very good. They only hired

because she was female and you're sick of this shit right. So you have to appreciate that the lived experience of the whim inside of Google is that they know that some percentage of those guys were saying hey, I just want to talk about. Studies are actually pissed off right, so their bullshit detectors are set very. Very high? They think they're hearing dog whistles everywhere, and so I don't think we should be blaming women who been subjected to this, as if this is not a real thing, there really are dog whistles. There really are people who don't want women in tech, and we want to go back to an all boys club blah blah for sure. But that's not really what we're saying are we know we aren't. I don't think right now, But the issue is what, if I need to do some amount, some simply minimal amount of kind of intellectual terraforming to

all of these female neurons to work on all of these amazing problems. So what? If? What? If the people who have the answer for well take cancer or AG Who knows happened to be female? What if I needed, Do some things in order to make the environment more attractive, like, for example, probe being in teams has to some extent per replaced cowboy programming, worse just some guy with his code, and you know right a set of headphones in the he he goes to it. Okay, so that's what he was talking about like what are the To what extent can you actually change the nature of work to bring these

extra neurons online. Now that's the right reason to do this. I don't think we should value like what is coding it's some sort of highly logical, very technical, persnickety activity. If it's highly compensated everybody wants in if it's poorly compensated, only people who are sort of addicted to it. One right and it happens to be sort of high status at the moment, and so there's this feeling of a king? Okay. This must be an all boys club, and maybe it grew up as an all boys, because Maybe it has particular attributes, but the thing that I'm looking at the baby different from what you're looking at, is that I'm thinking about particular high ability, females who have left the game, or who have sort of going into a lower intensity mode, because there's just so being in an all male environment? So if I can interject you're trying to discourage attrition I'm trying to,

courage, attrition of the amazing people who have something deep and powerful and important to say so. The environment of these places is contrary to them, establishing whatever strength of the house. So let me give it. I would love rather not talk about women and I'd rather talk about something I know very, very well, which is myself. Ok, so four. Years ago I gave some talks on physics which terrifying to me, because I wasn't trained as a physicist and they got a lot of attention and publicity at Oxford. I don't like the unpleasantness of intellectual, one, upsmanship and negging. If you will, that takes, place in particle theory. It's a turn off to me and so I've sort of stayed away for four one slash two year. Because I didn't like how unpleasant and hyper. Like exaggeratedly masculine it was. Why do you think that exists well, because it's a huge

why is raining mean if you're trying to get gain Einstein's mantle? It's still a! I'm winning, because you know Einstein was Times man of the century, so it's uh, as of this huge prize, there's also a lot of critical thinking a lot of criticizing yeah, but there's a lot of just wasted yeah there's like a dick measuring contest. That does nothing for me, okay, right and so so. My point is: is that, is a guy who's been in mathematics, physics, economics, finance and tech? That's five hyper There are some of them that I just can't stand because they're too exaggeratedly mail and you. You feel like criticism is exaggeratedly mails that just criticism, it's just like snarky stupid mean spirited construct Div teachout mean girl, show female show maybe housewives of Beverly Hills, that's pretty pretty takedown yeah, that's a different version,

so this is you avoid these particular person makes lots of US men and you think women there would you be more so likely to avoid and you would lose the contract just trying to say a lot of these brilliant minds. That part of the problem is. Is that every time you have an extremely kind of overly like an exaggeratedly toxic culture. Get attrition from people who are really good at it or just don't like to go into work, makes sense and putting that on women is not fair right. I don't do labor economics at Harvard. For the same reason it right it's a really unpleasant. I understand that once they've actually gotten to the game yeah right, but is that what

this them from pursuing the game, or is it natural inclinations towards other pursuits? And then it's a mixture? It's a mixture right. So most things right. Well, this is really what Damore was saying. Is you saying there's a five thousand and fifty default baseline that you've adopted? I don't think I James Damore, don't think that we should accept five thousand and fifty we should figure out what percentage of this has to do with uh interest in inclination an should be an adjustment that, with prejudice and right so break it into two components, were off of fifty plus b, where a is the natural amount that it should favor one gender or sex over the other and then B is the extent of systematic Yes, that's a very analytical, I think, a very good chance that it will do the same thing. It is exactly right, you're, one of the very few people that it's broken down like that. If you can

in this weird ideological struggling. I got into tremendous trouble because I let off a tweet that was about biologist, yeah great, because richer Dawkins had just been D platform at Berkeley where he was going to speak as a biologist, my brother. Thought about? Why of the platform platform, food, because you know he said something uncharitable about Islam, which we have to get back to you right, but the key point was is that I had three biologists Damore Dawkins and Weinstein, who had all been d platform. So I let off a tweet about you know, for God sake stop teaching people that they should run to hr rather than code, which had nothing to do with harassment at all. It was really just about seeing a woman who deleted her tweet- and I haven't talked about this I'd tell now, because I felt that I reacted to her deleted tweet and then I still, I still have it on my

shooter, but I didn't want to bring it up and then I I was left sort of holding the bag right. What was the to eat? It was a Dear Google uhm, the don't teach my daughter to run to HR for financial freedom rather than code thanks a dad, and that was in It is like suck it up if you're being harassed in the workplace. You know do not suck it up if you were being harassed in the workplace. I don't know how to make that clear, but it's about If somebody's talking like a biologist and they're saying oh well, there's prenatal doster own and you know there are these psycho metrics, and these are the conserved differences across cultures That's not a reason to go to hr. That's a reason to figure out the person is making sense, not making sense to take them on the arguments. That's I feel very passionately as well. Think discourse. It's free speech, is incredibly important when you distort

what that guy was saying, and you turn into his hateful attack on women. You've shut down, discourse and you've discourage anybody else that has any sort of unusual opinion or unusual observation from coming forth, because you're, essentially you're, limiting free speech to free speech that you agree with and this is what happened while I agree with this, but think about how difficult it has been as soon as I say, learn how to over promise and over deliver when under delivering that that that can take up ten minutes like are you telling me to Bullshitin not come through. No, I'm not saying that. I know what I'm saying, but all of these higher level points all have level misinterpretations right, and so you know circumstance. It's also important to realize that after so many years of putting up with sort of whisper campaigns. It is standable that women are sick of the right. So that's true to that

right yeah. So the key question is: are we going to just deep platform all the biologists. Are we going to pretend that there are no differences. Are we going to pretend the gender and sex have absolutely nothing to do with each other, like this sort of fantasy life that you can try to lead in press of context is going to destroy the underpinnings of in civilization, and I have nothing against eastern civilization, but I'm an exponent of western civilization, and you know this gets back to the issue of will we be able to talk anywhere in a safe enough fashion,. That we can have really meaningful conversations so that we can actually fix these fucking problems, right and the only way you're going to fix these problems is, if you cut out all this the the ideological bias. On the right and the left the male and the female and just look at the problem for what it really is. Well in it's tough,

or challenge, because we also don't see ourselves but just hiring that guy for that memo and then here's the my favorite part my all time. Favorite part they we invited women to take time off 'cause. It was so stressful. I mean you are, you are reinforcing the worst stereotypes that someone couldn't I actually read the memo yeah and it was so disturbing to you that you had to take time off you are insanely, fragile or you're. Looking for time off you looking to take time off either. One of those things reinforces the worst stereotypes that people have against women yeah. But what? If the idea is different? What? If the idea is that Dave we've, been experiencing trauma at somebody else's hands that wasn't James Damore, ok, but that's not about the James Damore memo, and then just I have it done right. Why have it

because that's not thermal lots but you're having it directly in response to that guys, a memo which, Was it in any way directed this conversation, I go to India and I see a bunch of backwards swastikas with dots in them that have nothing to do with Nazis right can trigger door going far, though we're pretty far away from that. Let's just talk about the internal memo that little sense like why? Why give women off? If you want it, first of all, don't fire that fucking Guy have a convo nation with them and have open discourse. The biggest problem was firing him because establishes a precedent that truck look. I called him up specifically to ask what the hell happened right and you know you've talked to him. Yes, he's soft spoken, very kind. Very nice guy James is pretty open, so I'm gonna say he's. While the introverted, almost certainly on the spectrum for short and his reaction, was that I to a meeting where they try to teach diversity. The biology That's wrong: they asked if I had any feedback, I told them, he wrote at

will. This is right. This is like this is how its brain thinks exactly, which is. Why is a coder which is why he was a biologist, which is why he's at champion right exactly? This is how it's very important that these people not be unwelcome because fundamentally we're going to this country I'd Social justice stuff in absolutely everything all knowing that he was labeled as a misogynist over and over and over again? And you don't even given the guy a chance to have a communicate, have open communication like if you sit down with, sort of the big problem. Is that if you say. Come to the seminar we're going to teach you things The things are wrong, and now we want your feedback right. Just setting certain minds up. Friends, thing for sure yeah that said and- and this is something I I I I- this is like much harder to bring to this room this firm. Yes, this room was wrong note because I'm I'm part of this constellation of people, but we keep doing this. We keep making a mistake,

my opinion, which is we keep seeing these wrong things that happen in the space and we lose the empathy in some sense, because people are, not representing themselves well, so I believe, having watch, my wife in economics that it is really corrosive to go in every to work in an environment which does not feel welcoming for sure very toxic? very bad so now. The idea is that something breaks the camels back and it's a proximate cause. It's not the actual problem. Right Blairstown, how they framed it. They're, saying they're, giving people time off, because this diversity members that he put in his brain targets versus hard targets right. So the idea it is, is that he was a soft target, but they may have had you know many of these women may have had a manager who passed them over. For you know, promote

since three times when they'd been the major contributors, but it sort of reinforces a rational ideas about his memo without actually reading the core components of an look charted objects. Why? I that's why I was outspoken on I know. I know you were right. I know you were. The point is even while I am out spoken on to more species, have think there's issues I believe there are fundamentally. We are in danger of breaking empathy with people who do not express themselves in our area, and I don't like the fragility. I don't like the you know the there is this confusion between strong people versus very aggressive people and in general, stronger people are much less aggressive right is not that's like loud yelling. I think that they're winning an argument because they're loud yelling. Well, if you watch like the jungle book, Shere Khan. The tiger is portrayed as unfailingly polite right right, because he's just he doesn't need to prove himself right.

So part of the problem is, is that we are waiting for the strongest voices to rise above the din and say: look. We can't be this aggressive about everything all the time right. We have to actually think what's misdemeanor? What's a felony? What's a foot fault you know? So just a boy, little down, you don't think, there's any issue with inviting women to take time off from a memo that you didn't even disagree with I'm. I absolutely think that there's a problem there, but I don't think that that's the right place Google sitting on a pile of cash. It doesn't need all these people to show up. They botched thing, as far as I can tell you, but why why tell women take some time off? You just got assaulted. You were just attacked by some horrible thing that doesn't discourage or that discourage

diversity. The discouraging right thing to do would be retained. To retain more right, yes and to say look, we need to be able to talk about this right without silence each other with terrifying each other without so thing that we've heard the others arguments have some public speeches where you have people poses ideas and have him discuss right and make it public so that maybe people can learn from it instead of making it this gigantic, campaign against one guy's idea and just destroying his credibility in a very sort of perverse way. How about just Google has Youtube they have all the resources in the world. I just in to turn this into an educational experience exactly yeah, but the big problem. Firing Damore! Yes, because what that did was it puts out a press. It said: here's how game should go when you hear somebody say genotype versus phenotype complain. Yes, when you, when something makes you want,

scrabble about psychometrics complain if somebody starts to disagree with implicit association tests and don't own. Their own bigotry and bias complain right. Well, that's terrifying Well, it's sort of the same type of thinking that got your bra weather in hot water in Evergreen? What I'm trying to get at is that we are we who understand this problem. I think better than others and are willing to talk about it in public. Are losing empathy, we're so sick of being worn down by these terrible arguments. Right and so you know, can we we pop all the way back up to your original point about this law? Sure, okay,. You asked the question: why is the left seemingly weirdly, supportive of practices?

include female genital mutilation, honor killing terror, etc, etc, etc? And I think it has to do with the fact that. There is a fundamental inability to discuss these issues because Nobody is given us the right tools and language, so the issue of Little Judaism, political Christianity and political Islam is one cat and then there's just sort of cultural Judaism cultural long, cultural, Christianity. Now, quite honestly, You can easily be embedded in a muslim community that is not devoted to political Islam and feel that you are very much in another: a brahmic faith similar to Christianity and Judaism. On the other hand, there is a much bigger issue, which is that Islam has a

totality to it. The Judaism no longer has and the Christianity. Never had as SAM Harris points, the out the line render unto Caesar what is Caesar's cleaves off the potential for political christianity at the same level as political as long as you're you're dealing with this different object. That doesn't quite seem to have the same character, sticks as the others, and you haven't been given any tools to sort of pull it apart. You've also been taught that if you are proud of European civilization that you are like pro white white is irrelevant to me. I care european civilization, just as I care about european barbarity having sat through european barbarity, I'm not going to give up her being civilization. You know so in in part. What you have is you have people who are making the vanilla confusion where they they imagine that

vanilla. You know we use it to me in the absence of anything interesting, but in fact it's like the most interesting spice in this particular orchid. That's incredibly flavorful! So we it's like a linguistic mistake. Well white! Is that to european civilization. I have no attachment to my Yes, they could care less, couldn't care less. On the other hand, I have a huge attachment to Newton to Mozart to the terrible things that happened. You know in the in the killing lands in the mid 20th century, so the evil, the good the imperialism, the guilt like that tradition- I'm very resonant with the good, the bad and the ugly, and it is my tradition so when I you know meet somebody coming from China. I expect them to be an exponent of chinese culture. Well, I don't

to say. Well, I don't have the right to have my own culture, because I have to erase myself, based on this confusion between get this. That is incredibly value and the skin color. That is completely irrelevant to me. I don't. I would much rather have western civilization running between the ears of people who don't look anything like me, uh and you know, be proud of what the software has produced. Then have a bunch of people who look like me, who don't think in any way that I recognize wherever the original point was. Why does the left wide progress failed to criticize the homophobia, the sexism, the the killings with all the the horrific acts? So, let's talk about, let's talk about particular example: okay, Rabaul, your her them yes, revolution

afghan women's association. These are the most badass chicks on the planet, they're the ones who taught little girls under the Taliban. They are muslim, they're, proud, afghan women they have afghan men who risk their lives. These are people who take their lives in their own hands to educate women in one of the most repressive places on earth. That is Islam. Those are Muslims right right now. My point is I try to get people interested in won't. You take the side, of the Muslims who hold your values right or the values closest to yours and this is where we get into real trouble because for some reason we don't perceive. That there is almost an intellectual civil war within Islam with forces from Maderna T and forces that are trying to reboot? You know from the original texts right

So do you think that we associate Islam with May even a smaller fraction of it. Then we really understand, like the ISIS action? The the The Taliban, like things that were terrified of what people that are throwing gay folks off buildings, we somehow weirdly view them as more authentic some sense, and so you don't wanna, go against the authentic universe. For example, the hobbyist Sort of saudi arabian- very I never thought- was going to be influential over Pakistan because South Asians tended to look down, but with all of this money that's been spent exporting the sort of ticular text oriented very literal interpretations. I think we've we've gone down a terrible path where we've sort of weirdly

not understood that there is a conflict in that we actually have a dog in this fight in the dog in this fight is Those were trying to create cultural Islam. And cleaving off political Islam. I don't want live under Sharia LAW, and I don't want to feel bad about this live under anybody's religious law. I don't want anyone to live under whole jewish law and this is a mainstay of in civilization and when we can't feel comfortable about that which is like who, who are you to say whether we should live in under Sharia law answer? Is I come? from a culture myself. It's not like. I have no this is my culture, we do not live under religious law period. The end, it's fast Turning to me, how very how many different idea, loud ideologies exist and how much they vary in how people can just slot right into those and accept them. As the end all be all period, and it's to me just from uh,

evolutionary psychology standpoint, just looking at the the broad spectrum of different ideology, The people slide into it so fast, I it so fasting how many different, sets that people adhere to that are unwavering and rigid and how common it is it so uncommon to not have an ideology It seems like this idea. Of what will the numbers that we have of atheists and agnostics in America today I mean is this unprecedented? Is this the most the largest of human beings ever that are looking at things in going. Maybe nobody has an answer. Maybe this isn't the right way yeah? Well, I I act, but I so think that a lot of those agnostics and atheists have more religious leanings the nail open up two and a lot more of the religious folks are able to run the atheist agnostic program almost perfectly. Between their ears as well. I don't think it's as clean. As let's say you know, SAM might same here

This might make it that's what I was going to get to next whi. Is it that so many people who are atheists and agnostics adopt religious tendencies in terms cultural behavior and what their to not willing to serve except a lot stuff that you see that you're calling earlier when you were saying people to describe racism and you you do describe it as power and influence. These cult Number ideas did a lot of times getting these cult member ideas from people that will tell you that they're not a part of an ideology. They're, not religious. But they are exhibiting dogmatic. Images ideology so, but that was my question is Is it just a thing that we are inherent program to slide into yeah yeah. Yeah? This is this is the big point where, when Jordan

sent in SAM Harris got into it. The first time on SAM Show that was so confusing was well was confusing, and SAM would have would have appeared to have won that one pretty decisively, because Jordan tried to fold in fitness to the definition of truth. Yeah does not work right. Your. Kings. Point, however, was really deep and I don't think he did it uh the service it needed to be to have done. I think they would I'm better off in person. I don't like conversation, where people are as wide on Skype and I've, I've refused so far to do any podcast were not looking at the person, because I believe me I contact to warm yeah. It's huge. I've done. One and so far that was with John Anthony West. The brilliant egyptologist it's just 'cause he's a ill and he lives in New York and it's just hard to get. It was awkward. If I had to but In general, it's like how many fights have happened over unicode and ask yeah actors as bad

number would even take place. I you're looking at each other talking to each other. I told yeah tone tone. Cues is it's completely. You know that's like with conferencing is that you find it you're staring right above The person is, usually you trust yes, so it's weird this. Going to say is that Jordan Peterson's really deep point. If I understand it so Jordan, if you're out there please correct me, is only archetype, of the kind found in religion is sufficiently rich and deep, too explain why humans behave the way they do. There is no scientific, That's good enough! There's, no purely logical, there's, no fear philosophical tradition, so, as of the moment we're stuck with deep cultural archetype baby Shakespeare would be the only thing comparable to the religious cannons and the claim that you're making licitly in the Jordans making, perhaps more explicitly is that there's something

what our brains, maybe that we were parented, and so we need to give the parenting effort over to something else, I don't know that fundamentally finds its way to religion even the computer, that is our brain, knows that it's making leaps that don't make sense. How old are your kids, minor, twelve and fifth do you when you see them? Do you see things that are you and your wife? within in wonder like is this. How much So this is genetics? How much of This is the mimicking their environment. How much of it is both the there's the sewage, generous stuff that comes from? God knows where that I have no idea cut into their head at all, yeah. Well, culture. This is the books invent, I mean, don't don't discount individual invention, sure you know for sure that too, so I believe

Eve that my son, who twelve has gravitated very strongly towards Judaism, so we go to services. I don't think he believes in a technical sense, but he enjoys the service. Yeah, but you know again so many of us just don't know the music is. Beautiful sentiments. The richness and coming back to Jordans Point except she's, not part of it. It's like hearing to doing a horrible right, you're in like star wars, drama warrior in Kung, Fu Panda and she left. Don't let anything go to some. You know you're going to a place whether it's a temple, or a chapel or you know, you're going to this place is: uniquely ornate environment. You know we have particular words. For example, the rabbis tell us, you know, we usually don't say this, because this is what we have stolen from the angels, but this was the one time in the year when we can actually shouted, and it's

Sass potent end. You know you're going to to your original point. So you have some weird tradition that makes no sense that produces it ridiculously disproportionate number of the Nobel prizes. Let's say in Science it? Would it be scientific to throw that away? I don't think so, no right! So, if you were scientist scientists. I don't know, what's going on with these weird rituals, it's like you know it could be the funky chicken or the hokey pokey Something is mean if, if most of the people who Nobel prizes. We were found to do the hokey pokey, I'd, probably put more effort into May It's not! Maybe that's it's not a to the ideas that spot and from these religions at all. Maybe it's that People have the freedom to think about these other things, They have intense confidence in the future. Destiny in their God and their traditions, their ethics and they're also carved out that this I

thought of religion in some ways is almost being like a moral scaffolding like you. Ok. Well, you got like a real, clear structure so operate under and that gives you resources it gives you freeze up resources to do other things. I I mean. The problem is: is that the atheist critique, which is like there is no beer to do in a cloud granting your wishes or listening to what you know, Bich, that's my answer: how do you know everybody who says there's no god and nothing happens when you die like you, don't know that to say that is no different than someone saying they know for sure. There's a god in the cloud with RPN St Peter noted gold, but look at a list of if we conjure are if we conjure SAM and we try to steal man's and right with the okay, okay, but they're all these explicit ways that you're supposed to worship- God right, they can't all be right because their mutual in compatibilities, and so how do you choose one among many in it? And this led right, okay, level. None of this is the point. The point is deep. Archetype is it's

own thing in the morning to six d archetype. It's white cares about the godfather pictures differently than home alone. Home alone is not deep architect. Godfather pictures D parked it right, okay. This is why I, I on one Khan, Fit comfort panda like White on rice. That is deep architect. Those are actually pretty God, damn good movies, not just the first one. The second was not bad. My kids, like that, the younger than yours, I don't hide behind my kids just I liked it I enjoyed it, I enjoyed him. Look. I enjoy the Lego Movies man. I say I've, never seen a not bad. This last Ninjago wants not bad. I enjoy it, so I think that just messing with now. I like those that really do, enjoy it a little bit because a lot of dumb that I like, though, that sad really yeah. I like a lot of dumb sheep quickly with some ship kiss. That is dumb

every now and then man, I'm on my way to the comedy store I'll throw on. I was made for loving you baby yeah. That's not so bad I prefer Angus Young in the school board. Hey, I don't mind it either like him as well. Yeah, look I'm I like all kinds of music, but I'm out I wondered when it comes to archetypes, whether or not when I was getting too when I was talking about your sons and your children, whether or not they're behavior is genetic, whether or not it's experience whether it's a combination of all things, how much what we have is just in these this, sort of inclination towards ideologies is because pretty much everybody had them thousands and thousands and thousands of years that we had civilization and we are in some way shape or form the product. All that stuff, even genetically never memories, I don't totally understand genetics, but what I

you understand. Is that there's a lot that we don't know about why ideas get transferred from father to son, from children, from parents to children and things to get transferred? Even two adopted kids right? They come directly from their parents right in in a very eerie way. Where you go. Is there. Some like what our instincts wire children, afraid of spiders and monsters like what is that? Is it because at one point I'm someone near them was killed by a big cat. You know dozens of years ago? You know back when you know, we were living in these environments, where we were preyed upon by predators what it mean the reasons why and Rupert Sheldrake had a great point about that. If you two children in New York, city, they're, not afraid of child molesters. Or murderers or things that they might encounter car accidents, they're afraid of monsters like why? What is a monster?

And that a monster may very well be the memory or the ancient genetic memory of Christmas. I mean, I think, if you look at, for example, the evil stepmother- oh well, that's real, too okay yeah, but what was that about? Probably it had to do with the fact that the first thing that you want to teach your children is hey, if I'm not around and daddy remarries somebody who has no interest in you genetically right, here's, the emergency glass, in case of emergency plan right all of that, but it's also how many times does that play out, or someone has to tell that story yeah, because it's so calm, we all know it. We all know the story. I have a good friend of mine, who is essentially tortured by stepfather or throughout growing up. I mean it has a horrific life story and one of a million one of millions right, but sometimes we do is we we sort of go obliquely at these things so for

sample in little red riding. Hood, you know, is the Fox Fox, sorry is a wolf a wall for actually stand in. Well, I think it's a wolf because throughout Europe, through thick and thin thousands of years, wolves sprayed yeah, but the wolf is pretty creepy in this kind of, because wolves are clever, you know, do you know? weather in Paris in I think the early 1400s wolves killed. Something like the number some insane number of people in Paris, like fourteen people, were killed by what Snyder in Paris, they are starting to show up in Paris again, wolves survive, looking dangerous wolves, will look so everybody that everybody respects the Wolf but yeah but they're clever yesterday about wolves is they they have. Some sort of a health ever said the better to see here right because he was being clever, mean okay, but you asked the question about predators also made the

big, bad wolf to three pigs. It's all wolves, there's a lot of wolves in ancient folklore and stay the out of the Woods woods. Always stay out of the woods: wolves in the woods right. So what's the woods is in central park know it's real woods. People live near. The fucking 'cause they weren't there wasn't those kind of city. Yes, when they wrote the stories when the Grimm brothers were around there was no central park right now. All I'm suggesting is: is that a lot of information comes coded so that it doesn't point to directly, maybe maybe stepmother counts and wolves are dangerous, step mom, I take no responsibility for this man. There's a lot of amazing step mothers. Now, let's say thirty seconds worth of things that wonderful step buttons. There's amazing, step mothers it is obviously some monsters, there's, obviously some monsters, but just yeah. We step mother, step stepfather. The question is: what happens when

mommy or daddy RE, Marys yeah. Sometimes it's awesome right off and it's not right and why because of this issue about genetic relatedness, so you know shore yeah to your earlier question. I was stunned. I didn't think about twenty three in me as a religious test, but when, I sent my saliva off to be analyzed. It came back you're, a Jew like. Ninety eight point six percent coming? Well, I didn't I didn't know my religion was in my saliva. It didn't even occur to me. Yeah, but it's a, but that's the weird thing about Jews. Is that it's a religion, but it was also an ethnicity right right right, The idea is that all of these rules, dietary restrictions rule for who gets to marry it at what level in the culture? Where do you Your resources. Are you proselytizing, or do you try to live at steady state? Do you discourage people converting in?

All of these things are some sort of tool kit for living, and it has produced more physicists then? You know outfielders right? So it's not good at everything create some things at the exclusion of others, and so the question about how does the stuff, co travel? Um travels in some ways, it's very mysterious yeah you know we pass on trauma, say in my family for sure that my family, Stop being religious, when my great uncle Sasha was killed? right at the end of world war, two and my great grandmother said no, no, compassionate God, would kill somebody so stupidly. Who had so much. Give to their family and change the family from some kind of orthodoxy, to orthodox atheism. When then, you know for three, reasons. You have Jews, marrying Jews with nobody, believing in anything,

I think, continuing to marry Jews. Why are they celebrating these holidays? Well, it's because fundamentally a switch got flipped, but my guess is that the orthodox were always questioning whether there was a god. The atheists are always questioning, whether there's a god. At some level, as our brains are not just simple computers to be a room. You know rid of bias. They have particular needs, so my four things that I care about our truth: fitness, meaning and grace all of those right off amongst each other. I said: there's something like this. On SAM's SAM Harris's program, a lot of people who wrote in so you know shows that he doesn't care about truth, and you know I felt like now it shows that you guys don't understand how important So the argument understand the argument. Sam would like to make an argument that the better and more rational are thinking is the more it can do everything that religion once did. So, if you

DMT or an lsd experience that can give you meaning and transcendence. You know if you can think your way more accurately. Through a problem that should increase your, fitness know. Maybe grace is something that's independent and you have to figure out whether that's important to you but the a choice in you know an elected objective and my belief is that a lot of these things are actually preset and that there's more antagonism between them. So I think of myself as an atheist, but it's uh because there's a room in my mind that I try to keep very, very clean analytical that I I sort of make the first among equals, but I have needs for these other things and I haven't you know times when the truth doesn't give me enough, meaning and I'll start storytelling. Okay, you know what we're surrounded we've got to fight a way out. You know, like all that kind of narrative, so Joseph Campbell's type, stuff, yeah sure

I think that the been there's lessons to be learned in those right, but it's and there's meaning in all those stories and there's there's a longing that we have for a lot of those here Journey type narratives, but um, but truth is significantly more import then just these lessons that we learned from heroes journeys like learning. The lessons is important are fascinating, they're, interesting, stories are amazing, but what really going on, like what biological processes are responsible for certain types of behavior, you know what would really is happening to humor bodies under certain conditions. What is really happening to the earth? What is really happening as far as a mile, my friend Peter Thiel, critiques beyond this point, just as you have for he says you Eric under Value and underweight the role of truth, but I We're not even having a conversation. If I think about my personal physics, he rode Iraq who's, the guy who came up with the equation

electron, less well known than the Einstein equations, but arguably even more beautiful in order to predict that he needed a positively search in the negatively charged particle and the only two known at the time where the electron and proton to make up, let's say a hydrogen atom. Well, the proton is quite a bit heavier than the electron, and so he told a story that wasn't really true where the proton was the anti particle of the electric and Heisenberg pointed out that couldn't be because the masses are too far off in that have to be well short time later. The anti electron the positron that is was found, I guess by Anderson at Cal Tech in their 30s and then an anti proton was created sometime later, so it turned out that the story had more meaning. Then the exact version of the story.

So the story was sort of more true than the version of the story. That was originally told, and I could tell you a similar story with with Einstein. Tell it with Darwin who you know fully understand the implications of his theory, as evidenced by his screwing up particular kind of orchid in his later work not understanding that his theory completely explained that orchid so there's also. It's of ways in which we get the the truth wrong. The first several times we try it but the meaning of the story that we tell somehow remains intact, and I think that that's a very difficult lesson for people who just want to say, look I want to you know like Feynman would say: look if, if XP Kermit disagrees with you then you're wrong and it's a very appealing story to tell the people but

also worth noting that Feynman never got a physical law of nature, and it may be that he was too wedded to this kind of rude judgment of the unforgiving. You know you it meant you were to innovate in in brazilian jujitsu the first few times it might not actually work, but if you told your office story. No, no! This is actually genius and it's working and you're like no. You just lost three consecutive bouts. Well that may give, the ability to eventually perfect the move, perfect the technique. Even though you were lying to yourself during the period in which it was being set, it's a little bit like the difference between scaffolding and a building, and too often people who are crazy about truth reject scaffolding, which is an intermediate stage in getting too the final truth so well. The problem with that analogy is that some techniques work, but they just don't work.

You and the reason why they don't work for you. Is you don't know them good enough? Yet, right or not, you can eat that yeah your problem. Now we can just wrap this up if you're that hungry. Well, if the home Stretch buddy, we got seven more minutes, can't take it anymore. I'm sorry, insulin, lowered issues, aggression listen. We just read the sub anyway. This is this. It was a really fun conversation. Really I feel like that eating that bar he definitely has changed because in the body of Christ it I know what you you were so hungry, you had to eat the middle of talking. I was so I could go to the bathroom. Yeah good thing going too well, he said you could do it for like six weeks, but the 92nd will go fucking crazy when they hear people chewing on the microphone. Is the number one thing that people complain about his podcast analogize to it? No worries we've had these fight, companion, podcast and people are fucking, potato chips and they're eating potato chips on the pocket and I just would get my twitter would be filled with people fucking furious, so slow.

America is hang in there too. Sorry, you gotta, you gotta, be comfortable being uncomfortable. Like couple minutes, I can do it Well, I was going to say: is that analogy is not the best analogy, because some things work they just don't work for you like One of the analogies as used in brazilian Jiu Jitsu is like someone will try a technique and it doesn't work for I'm like well that techniques, no good, I would say ok Well, you know that head kicks work right. You seen, people kicked go ahead and knock them unconscious. Right. Ok, try to kick me in the head. While I don't know how to kick people in the head there, you go even if I show you how you're not going to be able to do it. If I show you how to kick people in the head, you think going to be able to take someone who actually knows how to fight, and I had no they're going so they're going to see it come and you're going to be too slow, you're not going have your neural pathways cars to the point where that thing just slices right in there we're not gonna how to set it up. You're not going to have the confidence and the experience to execute it. The difference between.

That and the truth is very different because it does require some sort of physical process for you to master before you can execute it with with sufficient prowess to actually be successful. Well, I think you know this has to do with placeholder truth. You know the famous example of trichinosis and pork, where if you believe that God hates those who eat the pig, you think that's what that's about. I think it's about tricking it most likely right or various other parasites right right. So you know how long but malaria right bad air shellfish, red tide right, don't eat, selfish right, so all of these things have to do with I'm not quite sure that I can ' explain to you why this is a bad thing, but let's have a placeholder and then we'll refine it over

nine right come to understand what it is that we're we're doing now lasts were rigid with their ideology. We go buy some ancient scripture that ancient scripture says that anything with a cloven hoof that eats its own. Could you know, like there's all weird laws like this: is your what you're allowed to eat we're you're not allowed to eat, except you that's very often not how things work right. So my fear is that it's a little bit. The Emily Lytell effect on religion, where the atheist concept of a religious person, is usually the sort of robot we look things up on the tables right and in fact, what you often find is that you're rewarded for brilliance in and by not having to follow the rules nearly as closely if you become adept at argument sort of like really- christian people with a cross tattooed on them? That could be right, and you make some art, for example, in Islam, contract marriage, where you need to get married

for a few hours so that you can set your urges with your wife who then becomes not your wife a short time later. Your arbitrage the letter of the law against the need for some sort of human so they have contract marriages where you like would get married for a day. Yeah really so good move I think everybody should do that just to find out what the hell that person's really like you don't know. Until you actually marry him once you backed up with them and you're living for awhile, and they have access to your money, then you like, then you get I know the really like one point: six billion people are considering your words right now. I do. I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing. I do thing that. I don't think that many people in this podcast there- ok, we had a situation? I think in in the can there in Israel where people were using bread crumbs to fish as bait.

Question was well, does that invalidate the entire water supply of Israel during Passover and so rabbis had to be convened and You know paid a sufficient amount of money level rabbis could figure out why it was okay to drink the water during Passover. Right. So the issue of getting around your own rules is a time honored religious tradition, where you know any book that is not a book for living in survival. And thriving is consigned to the dustbin of history, and so the fact that these things have been around for so long, in general means that they have their own means of evading the self extinguishing programs that would seem to doom them. Some of them, those self extinguishing programs the way they evaded through fear right. I mean isn't that

the fear of Richard ISIL, cheating on them yeah right and so the idea of you know if you attack on Yom Kapoor. Does that mean you can't fight back, because you should you're supposed to be atoning for your sins? Now, if you want to survive you're, going to figure out a way to fight on Yom Kippur, what about? I guarantee you nobody, you know if it were so easy to defeat people using their own religious traditions against them. We you know the name of these religions- and we wouldn't wouldn't know the genius of the books, how many did we lose? How many religions, if we forgot what they were? You like Joe and TED's excellent religion yeah. How many we just didn't make the cut You know I mean how many from the epic of Gilgamesh from those days I would, I would guess, tons what did

all it was. The Heaven's gate remember, though yeah they added to it the nineties that killed themselves when the the comet or the solo castrating yeah yeah, the one guy, let it let it was self castration issue the elevators and she cried furniture than anyone down to like one. There were three shakers at some point in there was like one. They were accepting note note no new recruits. My favorite is the Amish. They of that I was. I called rom scalar. What is a crazy, Lincoln? That's yeah! We go nuts for like a year. It was a ring from spring. Is that is that what One year where they just go fucking Hog wild, they don't have to follow the rules and then they usually feel soul. Austin disconnected that they, I think, the the majority of them returned to being Amish. Is that right? I am pretty, are on their way to burning bass, nothing there that kind of not so they get smaller booze in Ac Dc type nuts, a they just a lot and get crazy and throw rocks. You know to I'm as I'm gonna look for the Amish camp yeah year,

Eric. This is a really beautiful conversation exceeded my expectations. Are I really enjoyed it and we should do this more often Joe thanks for students. Terrific thanks, perfect, alright folks will be back tomorrow, with the great and powerful, Christina Paczynski who's Netflix Special is out today boo. Thank you, everybody for tuning into the podcast and thank you to mother sponsors. Thank you to blue apron, yummy delicious food less than ten dollars per person you can cook the shape yourself, an it's God damn delicious check out this week's menu an get thirty dollars off your first meal with free shipping? By going to a dot com. Slash Rogan, Thank you to me, undies, my all time, mother, favorite underwear, good to meundies dot com forward, slash Rogan and you get twenty percent off the best and softest underwear and socks you ever known. Free shipping and one hundred

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An awesome, she's really hilarious. Dare I say as funny as her husband. How about that yeah? Then Thursday, Paul Stamets, the mushroom expert who you folks have been clamoring for he will be here on the 12th. That's this Thursday! So will fucking excited we're Did you people? We will see you all tomorrow and thank you so much and Christina's special again. Available right now. It came out today right now on motherfucking Netflix Ok, alright! Alright, that's it we're going Five.