« The Joe Rogan Experience

#1050 - Dr. Shawn Baker

2017-12-07 | 🔗
Dr. Shawn Baker is an orthopedic surgeon, weight lifting world record holder, and carnivore diet advocate.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
hey is it going man war man uh i'll groovy i am going to be in los angeles for new year's eve are you looking for something to do mother fucker get your party on two shows at the wiltern theatre seven hundred and thirty and one thousand o'clock with the great and powerful ian fuckin' edwards i think there's only like couple of tickets available for the one thousand pm show it's basically sold out but for some tickets available for the seven hundred and thirty an we're going to have a gay old time just like the flintstones it's going to be awesome member that god never go or will have uh go time ice cream that when i was a kid imagine trying to sing a song today on a kids show we say you're going to have a gay old time you couldn't do it they would
you not allowed to use the words the same way any more thing have changed anyway joe rogan net forward slash tour for all that i got a lot of dates coming up i'm going to be at the mirage in las vegas on december the 29th i'm going to be in austin tx on january 25th houston texas on the twenty six then durham nc on the 27th uhm i believe second shows are added to all those joe rogan net forward slash tour but new years the big one a fucking pumped for that excited i might even dress up this episode the cass is brought to you by butcher box we actually organically brought up this on the podcast during the podcast butchered bach this is an excellent service an what they do is they send you meet
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slash rogan one more time to try for free ziprecruiter dot com forward slash rogan ha ha and now my guest as i mentioned uhm i guess today is sean baker and sean baker is what you would call ok sean baker is what you would call a carnivore meaning he is an advocate of the carnivore diet he only eats meat that's it vegetables no nothing and we had a long conversation about that as well as his service overseas as a medic working with wounded people in afghanistan which is quite harrowing and his experience in the medical industry but
the idea of just consuming meat sounds crazy right until you here and talk about it and you go how crazy is it really maybe for me maybe it's for some people maybe this for me i don't know i enjoy talking to give it up for sean baker the joe rogan experience there were live parts on local thank you thanks for doing this appreciate it thanks for having me a joke you're one of those guys that came up so many times on twitter i had to reach out to you so many people like if you checked out with these guys doing here nothing but meat he's a doctor who super healthy okay let me check out with this guy doing and saw you and i was like he's serious about this and i was like ok this isn't a gimmick you're actually an educated guy and you you're pursuing this carnivore diet yeah
it's you know if you would ask this thing up closely if you could you go if you would ask maine two years ago i would've said that's fucking crazy i mean that's what i would say you know if you ask me even five years ago i had said i didn't really matter that much just train your aunts off 'cause i've been an athlete just training my whole life you know i didn't really until i got in my mid 40s and then all of a sudden i was like crap working working i'm fat i'm getting you know high blood pressure you know probably pre diabetic and you i went down this yeah those terry journey where i went from you know doing the low fat low calorie fish and vegetables almost vegetarian training three day three times a day just about trying to try and get lean and then i went down to you that i was like man to suck some miserable i can't scant maintain this you know that i went on the the diet store looked as i may looks pretty good and then i went
and i sort of read more than i want to low carb high fat and then i did keto genic for about two three years i think you do stuff and then i just started reading about these people that do this cardboard died and then what sort of would you read about it well there's actually a facebook it's called zeroing in on health is going to charles washington he's been doing about ten years and so they got about ten things about thirteen thousand people's right people he's been exclusively on a corner where is diet for ten years ten years so no vegetables no carbs no nothing nope i mean he basically eats you know i think it's taken pork ribs and stuff there's another guy that is more impressive there's a guy named joe anderson and his wife showing they've been doing it for twenty years and then i could probably show you a picture that he i mean he's sixteen he looks like he's thirty his wife is his mid forties and she looks like she's twenty five i mean there i mean well by looking at these people are like their crate healthy you know what happened was she had lyme disease real bad was kind of overweight really sick and he started to like
to further his reading about these old school bodybuilders member and affirming and vince grande so he promoted the steak and eggs diet back in the 1950s sixties and he was jacked i mean he was like this is you know nineteen fifty six it was kind of a for most of the steroid stuff was hitting you know i mean there were still some stares back in the 1940s you know the play with that with that route but i didn't really get into the body one culture till the price stc you know the seventies nuts you not everywhere right but he was doing this stuff in here if you look up if you look above inspiron to look at his physique from the nineteen forties nineteen fifty he's friggin pretty amazing that is just eating meat he was either his diet was basically i think it was five days as of just eating meat and eggs and steak and eggs every every one day like every fifth or sixth day you can eat you know whatever so that's what that's what he did so that was his not so that's what you look like back in nineteen yeah
in the fifties you know wow so that's pretty decent for back then you're a jack well i mean for a for a for a non steroid guy yeah and also the taking in consideration how little they really knew about training back there i don't know yeah they don't know i mean if you go back into history will i mean we talk about that but then there was a guy named larry scott who think the first mister olympia needs another guy that was eating just tons of meat for five pounds of me today and he wonders turn olympia again you know there's some of their drug use you know some of the stuff but i was just reading about this stuff and i was like you i'm an athlete i like trying to stuff and so so i said well i'm going to try it for a month and so i did it for a month and i was like man i feel pretty good right so i was like wow the dump sites like i did a month and i'm not going to go back and go back to my ketogenic diet and so i started
for that day today i did i was like how many some apples a little almond butter had some berries and cream stuff he normally does it treat and i just didn't feel as good you know like my back started hurting a little bit and i was like well maybe that's where someone so that i wouldn't said while go back to eating meat again when you're back started hurting from eating apples well i was just like you know who this is one of the things that i've seen him and we can talk about this in detail but i've seen a lot of people with all say is you know it is what i saw you know when i was working as a surgeon when i put people to keep aging diet to joint pain start go away right this is comment a lot of people really the joint pain is connected to the consumption of simple carbohydrates well yeah i think it's you know how to find carbohydrates i don't know what it is for sure but it's something we eat most like you know a lot of cases not always but i think there's something out there reading i'm pretty can fish is not meat you know that's what i can for sure from what i know you know whether
you sugar whether it's you know processed gluten or wheat or stuff like that whether it's vegetable oil whether it's you know or even some vegetables potentially and so this i'm saying this is what i saw you know i these large facebook groups like an anthropologist like they used to study these people a hundred years ago they go out in the west in price we got and see all these people and study their teeth and stuff the problem with that is you can you know you don't language you know it's pretty remote you can't you gotta translate and so some of the observations your water valid the hard to do now but so when you go on these groups and you just want you know it's like reading this like a scientist going okay this guy went on this diet is joint away this guy wanted this night and it's thyroid disease this guy wanted this diet it is skin got your psoriasis one i kept seeing this over and over and over and over again i mean thousands of them but the big thing for most people is removing refined carbohydrates removing sugar an a lot of people dairy
yeah i would say that if that's a good strategy for most people you know here's the deal i don't care what people you did you whatever makes you healthy you know i think this is the same we have these national guidelines that tell people to eat there they don't work for most people obviously i mean look at look at our country i mean it's just it's sad to see all these people that are you know really really getting sick and so i think you know there's a guy named vinny torture has no sugar no grains i think that will that will successfully help a huge percentage of people you know but i think you to be objective about it you have to do it long enough for it to have an effect and you know i think you have to you know being the really couldn't be really clinical about it and so one of the big problems she's a physician and this is a big problem because people will go on low carb diet or ketogenic diet and they'll say i feel the best i've ever felt in my life my mood is better my mental cognition is better my joints feel better my guts don't hurt my skin is better my sex drive is better
everything you would say is that means you're getting healthy and i'll go to the doctor and get some blood drawn and their cholesterol be high and the doctor will say you're going to kill yourself you're going to have a heart attack right so people get scared and then they go back to eating other stuff and they get feel crappy again with there like least my cholesterol is not bad so the big problems and i've kind of sort of basically preaching this stuff is i think the problem with health care in general is we have so gotten away from just defining what's healthy if somebody comes in your office and you you for two terms is just you got ten minutes to see a patient so what you're going to do is like how you doing much of labs you look at the results alas and say this lab slow this labs hi this labs normal go on this drug or do this or that and the patient may be saying well but i feel great or maybe com person may say i feel like crap well you'll you'll have to pardon so go exercise a little
oh let me bring you back to the beginning so you you're you're a physician right so you understand a lot about the human body were you worried when did go on this carnivore only diet will you sorry that you were going to be deficient in some sort of nutrients and vitamins and fiber and all these different things like you cautious yeah i mean i i was very very i'm still skeptical that's just what he should be but i mean i was were aware of what's not in me you know if you look at the rda you know if you look at your audience as meat is low and can vitamin c slow in manganese its slow and you know what passing a bit slow and vitamin a vitamin e there's a whole bunch of just loading on paper right so like why don't i can't rectify these people are doing so well just eating meat and we know historically that their populations out there you know what them the
sam in all these people you know on anyways pro the best example right because they they had a good extremely low incidence of cancer and no vegetables there's nothing up there yeah i mean i mean you know if you go to you know if you go to northern alaska in the winter time good luck trying to find a fruit a vegetable i mean not so but what people would say when they would they would just they would just fight so yeah but they had a lot of their organs and get some vitamin c from your liver and you know some of the some of the whale skin hats and so they would try to justify that and try to make this is how it worked and then the same thing messiah they would say well sometimes they would eat some berries once in awhile so it always trying to justify it i'm like you know those things aren't available year round so can get berries you know especially in alaska or wherever they anyway are you can't you can't get that once a year so that's not with having a significant impact on their diet i don't think so it's it's so it's coming from the meat itself well this is this is what this is what i after doing a lot of research on this stuff so we've known to say
sting so when we look at the development of the rt eight you know recommend daily allowances those would want those were developed back in the nineteen forties and they were developed by for soldiers to figure out what the heck you supposed to feed people so they can survive and so they did research on this and what they did was they populations of people that are consuming a normal diet like you back 1940s you know people would eat a mixture everything was high carbohydrate not as high as it is now by the way but it was a mixed diet so what they see is no know if you eat that died deficient in this nutrient if you don't get x amount of this nutrient you're going to a up some sort of nutrient deficiency symptoms they said okay well we know that this level nutrient deficiency cause disease so therefore we're going to recommend this year it's a cement right so but they what they found out back even in eighteen ninety seven there's a study where they're looking at animals and they looked at something called simon the nose slammed back then but they saw that certainly that there on a lower carb diet they didn't get this disease were written
animals with a heart carbohydrate did this disease no disease called berry berry and so that's a feynman deficiency causes neurologic problems or congestive heart failure type and so they were noticing that these animals are on a low carb diet even define levels were really really low they weren't getting diseases so look at that and you look at all these other nutrients you know things like manganese manganese is highly required for carbohydrate intake and so if you're on a diet we're not taking any carbohydrate all of a sudden you got to say maybe i don't eat as much manganese and my with the rts is and you can look at that after new trend after new chin glucose and vitamin c is a huge one right so even see you don't don't take vitamin c and you get really really need to get scurvy you get sick you die and as it will kill you i mean you end up bleeding in your joints your teeth fall out your gums rot your skin opens up with source horrible disease in
these people are not getting scurvy and so what's happening is we know that a molecule of glue molecule vitamin c are almost identical and so they compete for the same transporters so if you don't have a lot of glucose floating around you way way less vitamin c really so there's there's some and this is more known for quite a while as well so that's fascinating because obviously orange juice tons of glue post tons of vitamin c right database account cancel each other out and so i think happening this is one of the things i think potentially this needs to be investigated but i think that a lot people that we have all these vitamin deficiency vitamin d deficiency magnesium deficiency alot that may be caused by justin justin too much carbohydrate and creating a creating a higher than normal need so basically where we're creating higher need for vitamins now you do blood work on yourself i haven't you know i haven't yet i'm going to do it once i get you know i'm a year at this
you haven't done any no i don't you know here's the deal joe i mean i've got a lot of people do it all the time i'm not that interested in it because i i just don't i don't think it makes that big of a difference for me i'll do it just out of just to satisfy other people's curiosity i don't really have that much your curiosity personally about your blood work now i would think radical change in your diet where you're just consuming only meet i would i would want to see what kind of results i'm getting well i mean it i mean it depends you know if you can tell me what blood test tells me i'm healthy and i don't think you can well i think if you get a really good doctor who understands different chains hdl cholesterol and ldl cholesterol and free testosterone available and all the different nutrients that are essential and if get someone who really understands that and kind of a comprehensive examination of your blood work i think you could benefit from it greatly but also the the knowledge that you can tell them like how do you i feel great and when they can get a look at this what are you eating and what kind of meat do you eating where you getting it yeah
engine for because i you know we've started this you know you know and again and i was nice start doing this and got public on it and twitter and a lot of people were saying well yeah you're yeah you doing well your new number break is more records and stuff like that and it was explained that like what rick world records he breaks so on that you know so i minute yes so i'm an athlete model i'm talking about don't you like an athlete well let me ask you about two hundred and forty right now but i mean was he knows when i was a when i was younger i played rugby new zealand i was playing with a ball from the all blacks you know the high level this before we that's the name of the team by the way news i don't don't know as a resource we spent playing with blacks that we send out is it all blacks you know this is you know yeah the history of this kind of an interesting sort of thing so back in back in the nineteen hundreds in new zealand guys were so fast and forwards and backs for select alignment in the back of fast guys and they we're also super fit and so they said they look like they're all backs but somebody type made typo
so that's all that's interested but they are like the best rugby players in the world and some people say sa pretty good new zealand is pretty much the best play played down those guys and then i went into weight powerlifting and i had an american record in the deadlift i was developing close to eight hundred pound drug free athlete back in the thirties and then i went on to a home a distance romance stuff for a few years and then i went on to throwing you know like track and field like discussion shop and then the highland games were you you run around with a big favor and wear a kilt and i won world championships in that and then you know what i got in my mid 40s i was about close to three hundred pounds back then i was about two hundred and eighty two eighty five and i was like man i just can't keep doing this right so that's why i started dieting and stuff and so i got down to pretty lean about two hundred and forty ish where i'm at now and i saw there's indoor rowing stuff which is not a concept if you remember conor mcgregor on his i don't remember the machine he was rolling on you know i mean i'm sure it'll make sure they guys know that so
i got on there an i started training for that and so what i did was there five hundred meter row which is you know this is kind of interesting is highly highly glycolytic i mean it's it's like it's like running a marathon like like zach bitter glycolytic so like so that means you're burning glucose you're using muscle glycogen i know you had who is a felon a couple weeks crash now the other guy was andy galpin okay he said well you gotta have glycogen and i'm like well to do glycolytic activity and so this is highly highly clinic activity takes about write a minute minute to minute thirty and that's that's intense feel like you're going all out right and so well i was able to break toward the fifty plus world record in that and it was when i went on when it was when i got to fifty it was one minute eighteen point three seconds inside write down all the way down to one hundred and fourteen so i took four seconds off the world record without a single carbohydrate totally i mean
doesn't when you mean this is one of the issues is the key to jack diet if you eat too much protein your body converts at protein back to glucose that's one thing they were saying that you have to have like you're supposed to have like somewhere in the neighborhood of seventy percent fats thirty percent proteins right so this is this is another sort of thing that i think a lot of people sort of have have questions about one things we know about gluconeogenesis let's converting protein or fat into glucose is it's demand driven so your body doesn't just make it so if you get a lot of protein it doesn't just say i'm just going to make a much blood sugar for the heck of it 'cause you is needed and so one of the things that glucose extremely important to the body i mean if you really need it i mean it's absolutely the nice thing about it is if you regulate it really really well in this way to regulate it really really well it's just to make your own so rather than you know getting it can bucha or heating much of carbs you know we're going to be all over the place so
is what happened so so key ptosis again i prob spend periods of time in ketosis but but i'm not always good times and that's not the point of this you know but i mean i think ptosis is probably a good thing periodically but i don't like i said i don't think we can talk about evolutionary styling excuse me for interrupting but why would it very of your die it's not very why would you be in ketosis are out of ketosis if you're not very good diet or just eating only meat right so you know because it depends how long ago between meals i'm not you know man who intermittent fast so i i interment feast so so i this is what i think is you know i think this is probably more price i will often go his phone so i was in denver a couple nights and i went to the big brazilian it down all you can eat meat place and i just true oscar yeah yeah i just picked over the shower so i went there and i just i had him come back fifty times wow i click i clicked everyone
fifty freaking orders a food item is about six pounds of meat and put it away in one setting you eighty six pounds of maine that's insane dude yeah yeah so i would say i put away about six pounds and then i'm not hungry for like thirty some hours so i'm basically it's not that i'm in my fasting is just i feasted so much that i just don't feel like eating i think here's what i think huh you know yeah but why do you think we have an appetite mean what's the point of an appetite tell you wendy right that's exactly right but if you're eating the crappy wrong food your appetites all screwed up more problems we have people eating the wrong food you know we have this all this process garbage is full of calories sugar and crap but it doesn't have any nutrients in there so every time your hungry your body saying give me more nutrition well if all you do is pouring garbage you but i'm going to stay upright hunger so once the insulin spikes all that stuff i mean so you want to insulin is not you know we need some insulin we need insulin for muscle growth it isn't useful thing the goal
this is non zero that's what people understand it's not we don't lucas to be zero one or insulin we zero but we don't always always always spiking himself you know when you eat a big meal of something you're supposed to be eating all argue that i think meets a pretty damn good meal and we can art talk about how it's completed not but so when you do that you know you dislike the next time you're hungry it's time to eat bring your body said i need some i need energy so you can get from fat when you meet but i also need structure and so bye eating meat you're basically giving your body when it's asking for and i think that works pretty well who's phones out there man that's very interesting because most people would say you should eat a balanced diet most people would say that in order to be healthy you should consume certain amount of fruits a certain amount of vegetables you should have some whole grains it's a meat and with you come on and tell people like this
what i'm doing i mean six pounds of meat i don't eat for thirty hours like this guys out of his fucking mind yeah i mean i agree i mean it sounds crazy two thousand and seventeen it's crazy it's crap i mean i can point to thousand thousand people and do it in excellent health which is interesting but i mean you know balanced diet is just a frigging cop out i mean like i don't know what they have to tell you i'm going to tell you to mom's tight i wish you'd done some blood work so you should get us some data i mean it seems like with someone who's espousing this diet like would be nice you had some hard data so i mean you know 'cause i didn't know i was going to do this i just started doing i'm like well you know i've already done it i'll probably get some you know but you just decide like anyone try try this for month and then just keep going after try said try it for a month and i not so good i was like well and you've been four so i just sort last december so here while so whole whole year i've just eaten me kind of go do some blood work and what probably will i mean that you know but the point is i'm i'm the point i'm making is what is it going to tell me her here's the thing we don't know what
other things is i'll tell you little problem 'cause i've seen hundreds and hundreds of people have already done blood work so i know it's going to show basically you know so i've got we've got to study going got all these people smelling blood work but the you know probably my hdl will go out my triglycerides we go down my blood sugar will stabilize to low level my inflammatory there will be normal does because i've seen lots and lots of other peoples blood work already so i know it's going to show my cholesterol may be up or down and in that's something with a lot of people worried about that and can we can talk about cholesterol my view is a pretty worthless marker you know by itself you have to take it into context and so there's a you know there's a couple people that are really really intelligent about cholesterol that are really testing this sort of one guys name is dave feldman on twitter his name is dave quito silly guy name ivor cummins who's susan australian needs both engineers and so this was what happened this guy date he
i want to die and his cholesterol goes schifrin heights like four hundred no way way up there his doctors freaking out and he's freaking out so he's like i don't understand this i mean i feel great everything about me is just best ever i'm like so what he does is he starts drawing his blood every single day he gets a blood test and what he out is that his blood after all is all over the place one day it's three hundred next day is two hundred days three hundred and fifty the next day so what we go to the doctor every six months or year and they get a blood cholesterol you assemble that's my cholesterol is always that way well he found did it's so very well the madison 1950s but no one has been talking about so we figured out he's a systems engineer and his engineers or some smart guys i mean that's one thing i kind of talk about is an md or ph dot d doesn't mean they know everything there's a lot of people that are plumbers and whatever they don't have formal training that configure their smart people and they can figure this stuff out so he's
he's an engineer real smart guy but he does he figures out the cholesterol is basically all it is is it's traveling around in your blood based on energie flux so how much so have you eaten a lot so if you being a whole bunch of food and your fault your liver is saying i don't need to put out a much fat 'cause you burn fat as fuel now even if we're not in the dj died so what it does is it transports fat so when you're hungry and you haven't eaten for awhile like you fasted for a blood test your liver says we need fat this is were low on energy and it shoots out all this fat and what happens is cholesterol is cruising for a ride so it's just sitting there you know you as a passing so depending on how much you eat when you can out change your cholesterol it's not a very marker i mean you can you can find studies that show for all mortality like if you're like same i think right both so if we look at
and again associational studies are not that great but if you look at let me say all cause mortality if i am i going to die or not if your cholesterol is high you're less likely to die if your cholesterol is high you're less likely to get parkinson's disease if your cholesterol is high you're less likely to get much of cancers you know so it's like so you saying that though but most people here this thing go blah blah blah blah blah if your cluster were going to hardtack well here's the deal with die here's here's the deal of heart attacks so this is interesting because it you know that returns being not only to pick on vegetarians because yeah i know some great ones are great people and i think you know there should be a war between this but vegeta the the number one killer of eternity in his heart disease that's what kills and it kills everybody so it's just like you know hugh trade am i going to have cancer i'm going to die of heart which won't take your toys people don't understand that the sugar industries backing of science in the 1950s where they paid off those scientists literally false advertise
as the idea that sugar is safe for you but saturated fat and cholesterol is what's causing all these issues with people in heart attacks to this day people just sort repeat that like they think it's gospel it it is is part of that it's part of the framework of society i mean it's like it was the push that got you to say i'm is going to eat nothing but meat anybody that you knew that was doing it really well that you were talking to did you get some well i said it was just reading about people online you know you know there's uh tell you what if there's a guy named joe anderson on twitter and his handler joe charlene ninety eight eight eight thousand eight hundred and ninety eight or ninety eight scott you know is it's just the guy's been doing for twenty years and it's like this is pretty cool like i said reading back on that stuff and then just because i've been an athlete i'm like i don't know i've never taken drugs and stuff like that and i was always like i can get me to the next level as far as athletic competition i'm just a really competitive guy i mean i just i just like to you know push myself it works i know a lot of savage people that eat mostly meat
in campaigns eats almost all meat occasionally eats like something else but most of what he eats his meet my friend jocko willink is tired because i need more steak three others either i mean it's a it's a forget health food totally is i mean and you know there's a guy name bobby max let's have fitness guy he was yeah i guess it was used in america years ago or something like that but i know he did this steak everyday thing and i said if we look that came the history i mean there's all kinds of accounts of people using meters as athletic performance enhancer you back in the original greek olympics those guys a lot of me to perform better feeders out of london you know these guys are the guards for the kings they gave them extra me 'cause i know they would fight better though you know the mongols they just decimated althor age they basically just take their horses and their meat and that's what they did i travel with that you know and so you've got all these historical examples of people
forming better here the internet they were they were they were known to have this incredible work capacity and all they you know they was seal mating and reindeer and you know stuff like that so what's a typical diet for you a give me a normal day you wake up in the morning so i do what they would do that so today i mean you know eating why some you know general either one mailer two males depending on what my workout training is going to be so this morning looks and it's coming up here train early morning was faster yeah i said record by the way the my personal record is doing that but i had a couple new york strips i had about two pounds so two pounds of meat a snack is your keep might be might have your little thing on there i get notifications from people who heb see on youtube bro as you look just like you so you two new york strips today yeah i mean that's you know i found to me yeah it took me awhile to build up to this before you know like a pound of meat would be you know it be tough not i can i can put down four pounds in one time with
looking at you would go well he's super lean i got easily ever you're eating your bodies processing it really well when you don't have a you have what someone think of as steak eater gut how you tell someone gates steaks at day and like oh i must have a gut that's all that hey does a macaroni and cheese and bread yeah i miss a stuffy with it i mean you know i just you know i put like i said on an instagram page i've got me exercising doing and doing stuff pictures and that was something that something you talked about outside the studio right before we came in that the studies that have been on on people consuming me and i brought this up as well that there's uh the misconceptions about these studies because they're not very clear when they say that people who eat meat five times a week or more likely to get cancer what they're not telling you is what these people eight along with the meat are they eating cheeseburgers or grass fed beef or its grasp
it is grass fed you know hyuna senchal essential fatty acids healthy for you or are they eating some bull cheeseburger with a sugary drink like what the rest of their diet or they consuming a lot of refined carbohydrates are they consuming a lot of sugar are they drinking alcohol they smoking cigarettes all you're saying is there eating meat five days a week it's not not specifying in any way their actual overall diet they don't they don't sort that very very well out and so they've got all these epidemiology studies and basically a mediator is basically some and then you know we sadistically we know they're more likely to smoke the more likely to drink to more likely not to wear their seat belts are more likely to be in accidents are more likely not to go to the doctor and not the more likely just not to care so you've got that's what i mean is that what's his because people if i tell you as i say joe eating meat bad for you and you say if you i don't care i don't care about my health right right so you just don't care so this is it so they can't separate that out so they've got all studies were they they try
separated out and say what kind of what kind of even up to smokers but they never can take that i don't give up i don't know i don't give a thought right getting out of it and so you got this stuff and then all this he's a really really low strikes if we look at what you know and and we can talk about this about me being meat being causing cancer there's a there's some some concern about that with colon cancer but if we look at smoking when they determine that smoking cause cancer the demonology showed a two thousand percent increase in the incidence of cancer and a lot of studies when they compare that to meet in cancer they found an eighteen percent increase which is nothing i mean it's like it's like it doesn't even matter it's so low percent is in high not not when you look at relative risk i love your risk if your risk of getting colon cancer is one or say your risk of getting colon cancer is five in a million right and now it's six in a million i mean it's like nothing i mean it
it's like it is so minor but if your risk is five in a million three hundred in a million then you're like well that's pretty right so depends on the incident so it's really loaded begin with any only raise about tiny amount it's so small and so what we know there was a bradford hill talk about statistical coral which is on when the actually matter and not to you get to two hundred percent or three hundred percent does it even matter you can't draw any conclusions from that problem is one hundred and three percent difference out of like one thousand yeah so instead of two it would be six someone right so soon so instead of being eighteen percent are likely your two hundred percent like write those numbers are confusing to people though the where i see the same right two hundred percent like what we need that's a lot of people right so so you would have to double or triple primed your risk okay eighteen percent is not double or triple increasingly putting it up by a fraction right
so when you when you separate all that stuff out and then you know there was a you world health organization two years ago last year two years ago declared that red it was a class two carcinogen processed meats was a class one carcinogen you know they said it's like plutonium and smoking and you know everybody runs runs all over the place with that why did they do that so here's why they do that so first of all and you can go on their website you know they'll tell you what their with their conclusions were so this was done by an organization the international association for research on cancer based on lyon france and they are that's what the world health organization uses to determine stuff and so there and this is you know the point right now the irish sea is under under investigation by u s congress for using crappy science and you know promoting political agenda so i don't know if that's true or not part of this generated by probably corporations don't like their findings but investigation for that but
what they say is we have some weak epidemiology which is eighteen percent stuff but we think we strong mechanistic reasons for this right so if you know there's a there's a doctor named george eid e d who's a who's a psychiatrist out in maryland he's got this this tremendous she analyzed the whole thing she has what's the diagnosis diet dot com so analysts analyst analysis of all the eight hundred studies they used and she found that what they ended up doing is most of 'em showed meet didn't cause cancer there was a small percentage that did they looked at all these rat studies and there was about twenty twenty twenty rat studies and they found like three or four of them showed meet you know if we gave this type of cancer if we did this rat certain amount of meat and we daily bread lamp and we gave them a measure of medicine to make some get cancer that they get a little bit
change in their colon that might turn into camps what medison to make some get cancer i don't remember something there's a special way to make brats get cancer so they have this model that makes him get cancer really really easy so what they do why do they do that of trying to find out if something give someone cancer because they want to make it they want to be they want to differentiate as quick as possible because we're closer going to get they gotta use a million rats and i can i see what you're saying is that real fast way to show up that cancer but the problem with that and she explains it very well is that we don't know that they would get cancer it's not shown in the i we talked about this before is it if you want to look at rat studies and it's not to say that plants give you cancer but there are pesticides and plants that have been studied in rats that we eat everyday natural foods and vegetables and fruits that also give rats cancer and so the only difference is we've got you know
that's really pesticides you mean things that natural compounds that plants extract or they rent secrete in order to discourage predation exactly these natural substances when they feed them to rats they isolate him and feed him to rats gives a rats cancer fifty two they kept tested twenty seven so this is just normal foods that we eat on a daily basis stuff we don't a daily basis and so it's not to scare people out eating that stuff it's just saying that's how much bs stuff is based dip on but it just seems to me to be so crazy that they would do it our study and they give the rat something that induces cancer in order to find out what gives in cancer more so they given this compound that on top of the compound in the check their die right they also feed sugar with it you know so it's kind like it's just they do it you know and so i you know you you can you can extrapolate does that really matter to humans are not so hard to tell in the some of the things that animals can eat that we can't it's just the whole thing is bizarre yeah i mean we're not rats you know it's an you know it's like the same thing we talked about you know cancer rates
historical populations in one beside didn't have much cancer you know so bird feeding on you know the 1940s and stuff like that none till we started feeding mauler all our crap that the storage get those diseases yeah that's a it is it's all very strange right when you think about diet and and health you also have to take into account the geographical the the geography that your ancestors evolved in and what they their custom to eating like there's different adaptations for the inuit for example adaptation the cold they probably have requirements for certain amount of dietary fat yeah i think it you know this is what i think i think we're all you know this is one of the things that people talk about their site you know everybody is so different we have all these different genetics we all need special i tend to say that you know that circumstances that makes sense but i think you know evolutionary you know we we sort of split from primates you know we had
make sure to common ancestor with primates chimpanzees bonobos guerrillas for eight hundred and ten million years ago we don't know for sure it's back and then and so what happens is you know the human the pre humans kind of went one way and then the hm and he went up to swing when it went up into the trees and if you look at you know even the between chippenham in an ape you know an ape i'm not able grill really crushes all these you know these all really fibers food lots of fiber and stuff like that chimpanzees can't tolerate that as well because our their colon get a little smaller well humans called yeah way way smaller right and so what happened is why you and i can throw a rock really far in a chimpanzee chimpanzee can throw if you give it is your baseball they can throw about twenty miles an hour it's not very strong you and i can well baseball sixteen in our average average guy if you get a major league baseball player players return at ninety five plus right the reason we evolved to do that 'cause we were throwing shade at were
right that's what drove i mean are that was rotated you know to if you're gonna chimpanzees gap which is young sought and lost in the crowd climb trees and do this stuff and so these strong climate based evolutionary pressures which drove us to saying you know you know there's all this ice age stuff going on the the drawing drying out the fruit in the jungles were going away now it's all this grassland and you know not much eat in the grassland except for some animals delete some bugs and stuff like that for awhile and that's what you know and you even chimpanzees percent of diet you know there's a lot of people say frugivores are which fruit but chimpanzees eat about three percent of that comes from killing other animals i mean there there's this red colobus monkey somewhere in uganda or somewhere in africa the chimpanzees are hunting this thing to extinction yeah there are good little hunters but this is a david at and borough documentary on it's terrifying you see how organized they are to kill monkeys they have
at one end of this tree line coming this way and they have chips on the side then they chase him in and they corner him to ambush him they get in the center swarm am it's amazing i mean it you know think about their brain is not even half as big as ours i mean someone human sort of and i think it's i think it's pretty clear so what drove a lot of are evolution are bloody communicate to strategizing some anatomic things was based around hunting i mean how i know your big energy and i know it's it's not easy thing to do you gotta think a lot you gotta be pretty smart outsmart these animals and supposed to be when you're in big groups have been back then when they've got you know i gotta spears basically you know you look at there's a population in central europe called the groove atms right so if you look at population markers for nutrition right the one of the things that look at is population height so if there's a real top it all population it means that they had really good nutrition
so if you look at the tallest people that probably ever live where these current vet teams these guys just decimating mammoths i mean they were so efficient at killing mammoths and so that's probably basically all you know for the most part they might have a little vegetables with their they were there ever tight was like six foot two and select thirty thousand years ago that's crazy so the thing was when giant they were giants and so the people that have died of sort of genetically related to those people there are people from croatia in the netherlands which are in the tallest people in the world the only yeah other group the rival that are the nilotic africans which are like i want to see in the messiah which are all about six feet tall on average and their diet is primarily as we know livestock based and any other tall population historically were the plains indians particularly cheyenne injury indians and they just lived on mostly buffalo so it's kind of it is kind of interesting as far as what best food for nutrition and that's what i'm finding from performance standpoint it's just wanna make me feel the best thing worked
u supplements do you take vitamins or minerals or anything you know i don't you know what i just you know i i kind of you know just to be a lot well i won't say i take some salt you know something i mean in i'll have some himalayan salt how do you normally cook you cook for yourself also time and you get pretty good at cooking steaks yeah so reverse here you know i'll do not a university in reverse here staking a kelly hooked it slowly slowly hello he about to turn over time but yeah it was like a medium rare than a throne pan for comments and served up ninety eight or a store on the grill memorize more amount from california i gotta grill the girl from back he'll another in new mexico well i'll just do it controller so i do that but that's you know takes
government suit to see must do a lot of supermarket runs second expensive it's got to be an expensive diet yeah so i mean it's you know it depends you know it depends on you know again how much i'm probably more than you know the average person does is tied to the more of julia's about two pounds to pounds the meeting so they can today or down today right and soma lot of people you know people or that are everybody else do like ground beef and stuff like and you can do you need magic ground beef for under ten dollars a day which is right away you know two cups of starbucks you know something like that yeah it's actually not that bad for a lot of people now there's also people that have ethical concerns about the consumption of animals especially the consumption of factory farmed animals here on a mass space some you're responsible for a whole got damn field dead cows yeah so i mean i think i mean i think i have a concern i think people that eat meat should be concerned about and were the ones that primarily need to make sure that it's not happening and so i think you know as you know you know i would argue that you know since evolution
again humans have been eating meat and that's just what happens in nature if you look at how almost killed in a lion takes down a zebra it's not a pleasant experience for that animal most of the way that humans kill these animals now you know from a from a humane says pretty darn humane i'm even as a hunter you know if you hit an animal and you don't get you don't have the right spot you got track him down he's going to make take an hour or longer so the issue is not necessarily even just the eventual death of the animal it's also the life the ambulance core was killed yeah i agree with that too and so i think that you know you look at you know if the animals like if you got chickens in cages and they can't turn around right and there it is cramped in there that's awful that shouldn't be allowed one of the reasons they put chicken in cage 'cause they'll pick the hell out of me each other you know they don't care each other out so that there is considerations that if you have an animal that you're 'cause i talk a lot of cattle and most of 'em i mean most of them they really care about their hand
around with snow in the rain making sure their animals are fed through their and animal goes down and taking care of that so you know there's probably some bad apples out if we know about that stuff and some vegan documentary yeah i want to make a film about that then yeah those guys should be saying hey don't miss feature animals you don't intentionally hurt them we haven't standing in a pile of crap giving some given some fresh air and some some ability to move but you don't if you look cows or animals and while their herd animals anyway so they hang together anyway it's not like they're indoors now they're indoors and they've got yeah room to move around and they go in and go out i think that i think that's a big issue and so i think you have to kind of you can't just make it all black and white right there's some people that are good at it some people are bad bad need to be made not to do that anymore but i mean it doesn't change the
i don't need to eat there's a company called butcher box that will sell you a grass fed grass finished beef too they send it to you there one of the sponsors of the show and i've eaten there meets very good if you're if you're in a place and we have like a the like some sort of like a like password or something that we give them see we could find that but um there's there's ways to get you mean you have to search for it though it's not not in the us that you get you don't really exactly know how the person is raising at it's it's hardening up unless you go to while some sort of farmers market or something like that okay you can get ten dollars off plus free bacon by using the code word rogan at butcherbox dot com so butcher boxes one option there's the and i'm sure there's like i said farmers markets are great too you can actually meet the ranchers and
you know get a sense of how they raise these animals but i think for health wise it's really critical to get grass fed grass raised to get the best did you attention that or do you just take whatever you can get yeah so i think i think you know i think you're right in the fact that if you say what is the most nutrient dense what is the best quality i can get grass fed grass finished it's going to fill that bill now if you compare that to something that was you know fed corn right and given hormones and give antibiotics and what else should i do you've got those things and it's fed grain the difference nutritionally compared to if you don't have the money you can afford the snowden compared to the rest of the crap in the supermarket is you know so so i use another use ama analogy for you so have grass fed and grain fed beef is you know conor mcgregor gsp right
then this other stuff is say some guy who's like the number three contender or something like that really is that close difference is you know because you look at hormones and beep so you don't need much in your meeting right right you don't want antibiotics and your media there right so you're in your grass fed beef even the even the lq kill you've got hormones in that stuff 'cause handle makes it now of course so you're getting a virtual hard getting on very low level and so what they do is they give those handles plot generally the same hormones it in this is the percent is a little bit more you and i make normally so if they if we look at like a you know maybe i can't remember exactly but the scale is what's important so if they give you if maybe it gives you five nanograms of estrogen green it gives you ten nanograms of estrogen and then you compare it to eggs which give you maybe ninety and you compare it to dairy which gives you one hundred and ten
and then you compare it to you know if you look at phytoestrogen you know that's not that's in the millions right so things like swimming and stuff like that and then you compare to does your body naturally make and that's like thirty or forty thousand and so it's a really small level so i if you can afford grass fed and grain fed you know i'm not saying how can we solve world problems i think if you just if we just isolate for health only say you're a poor guy and all you can afford is you know i can afford grass fed me i can't for twenty bucks a pound for the stuff right right in which a box is still too expensive for me then that's probably still a better option than go back in eating you know the other crap the cheetos and no all this other stuff and even though would you like the organic fruits and stuff like that you know it's expensive expensive for people so i mean it's like i said it depends on who your audience is you know if you've got unlimited resources and most people don't then you have say what's you know what's you know from my health
what is most affordable it's practical how do i get my health back because this is you know i don't like i said i don't really i'm not like saying this is the best time in the world for everyone understand you need to find out what works for you right away so are you saying is that grass fed beef is better but it's only slightly better for i right i mean you know in the grand scheme of things right now so if you're saying i want to be as good as a pop we can be in that i said probably grass fed grain fed aggressive and probably better if you're like saying i'm just sick i don't wanna be sick anymore then i'd say get what you can afford so i really think that meat is in some ways a panacea for health you think that it really if you just eat more meat that your body will be what more vibrant more help they like what is it what is it about meat specifically well i think it's you know so is another sort of misconception so i think a lot of p it's stream le well absorbed in our body i mean so the end result of why we what do we do when we were eating ok what's the end result we eat for two reasons we
he to get energy and to build animal i mean you and i are animals in animal tissue the most mission way to do that is just to eat because your body has it has it says everything in the proportions that we need it right right it is you know it's a may conception you know when you hear a lot people say you know if you hit a bunch of meetings this is their rotten your intestines it's going to putrefy and stuff like that so they've done stuff some people look at ileostomy and these are people that have had their colon you right so cancer had colon cancer allergies like crohn's disease where they take out your whole cold and now you got a little bag which you poop into a little bag right so they've looked at people and they've looked at what comes out when they eat meat almost nothing turns a little bit of liquid right so it means all that meat is being absorbed you know but when you get much vegetables and all that stuff goes up in the back up you can't digest 'cause you can't digest have you gotta have bacteria in your colon
in humans are not really good at it compared to other primates were really bad at it what about probiotics so i think probiotics you know microbiome is fast and there's a lot of research going on there's a lot of people just talking all about this how it effects your health other things that we we try to how do we define a healthy microbiome you can't yet we just don't know enough there are you know we can't even we don't even know everything about the human body and then to put in things of billions of different bacteria all different different species and say this is a perfect combination that's and we're so far away from knowing that network in the very see what that means so what i would say if you are healthy you know if your joints don't hurt if every it's going good then probably by definition microbiome is fine if you're eating just meet based at your microphone is going to be different in the probiotics are probably going to make a difference for you but if you're eating again a crappy diet in owning your feelings
got a bunch of sugar you're gonna get this despite osis which is bad you know bad terio and then you know maybe the private providers might help in that situation i'm not convinced you know i don't i just don't think there is you enough evidence to show that that's a big deal that's interesting so you think that perhaps maybe the probiotics exist or maybe the probiotics are healthy it's a matter freaking out audio levels yeah too loud no not one talks so the probiotics you think maybe only beneficial if people are consuming a lot a variable things are all a very diet like carbohydrates all sorts of different things and then maybe the alex are necessary to sort of balance you out is that what you thinking i mean that potentially could be the case so you think that the microbiome or someone who eats meat is probably designed to eat meat
i mean i you your microbiome reacts to whatever you do how much sleep you get how much she says you know how much you eat hello i'm a stresses in your address very very adaptable i can change the day right you know so whatever you're feeding it chronically is going to change what would make what back to relive their it's like this thing about you no again back to his meet teacher faction thing so if we look at the definition of putrefaction here sounds awful right is putrefying putrefaction is the act theory of bacteria on protein right so protein gets in your colon it'll prove to fry so again we go back to these ileostomies patients they study people we're getting soy protein and meat guess which one had more protein going into the colon sweeper yeah so meeting about so it means stuff means more proteins going in your column and you're getting more facts in that way is that rumor is like i know i know very little about what so i supposed to do to you in terms of like raising your estrogen levels is that
supposed to be a real thing well i mean there's a lot of people think so i mean there's some studies that support that i don't know for sure i mean i don't i don't think so is a particularly good food for us i know some people will say that fermented soy no is a little better yeah well that's good for you actually right the not to not only am i think it's an asian type thing but you know i i do i think that you know there's certainly some people that think there's lot of associations guys getting annika masted and stuff like that from being too much so i don't guys really done that i thought i feel like that's one of those things are people just tell you a menu you to you know i've got no idea i never thought i was getting that from anything other than steroids yeah i mean they're they're they're suppose we are i don't know for sure i can't say i can see for sure in time yeah so now the we've been doing this do you plan on you've done it for a year now do you plan on continuing this for life is this your diet now or you going to mix it up a little like
so i'm going to you know i will i seriously doubt i will not eat a ton of me yeah i just think i feel too good i mean i think i want to feel good and perform as good as i can for long as i can so whether i say and this is what i tell people you know do it for a couple months you know because this is one of the problems so many people have health problems and i think a lot of it's food related it's really hard to sort that out you know if you're one hundred different types of food which one i don't know i'm going to the domain dropped to seven right right so it's obviously variable in terms of like your own individual by all right right so but i mean when you drop down to just meet then it's pretty easy to say ok i'm only meeting now if i add fruit back in does that or not it does and i'm like man i shouldn't probably eat that right by dairy back in so probably there will be a point when i'll say hey i'm going to meet maybe once in awhile i have you know have some berries again you know and then to see how i do with that i mean there's nothing wrong with that there are a lot of people i'll tell you that so she's gotta have been doing it for fifty eight
fifteen years i mean they're like man this stuff use me up and i don't want to do that who was the guy that you were saying did you find that gentleman online young jamie the g8 the tab i had a few people up but i which one the guy that he was sent away anderson doing i couldn't actually couldn't find him that was can if you're gonna if you go on my instagram there is about i don't know about a month or two ago i've got a picture put up for these people these are all people have done it for a total of fifty five years ok there's one guys a marathon runner and these are two couples have been doing it for twenty years another gathers in other galaxies kelly hogan and that she was like big elderly obese woman and she went on a car but she's not for eight years and she got super lean she was totally infertile couldn't have kids right super clean car at three kids later happy as can be all she does is eat hamburgers everyday i mean that's i missed it you know the stories i get you know this is 'cause now i'm
kind of central point and i get all these crazy crazy stories of people that's just from talking about it online just from talking how fascinating is that well kind of like a little movement i think and i think what you'll see over the next here are two there's going to be a lot more people doing this just to try it you know and i think it's you know it's a crazy some people are going to do it just to say hey it's going to be a carnivore i'm just going to screw around when i think there's people that honestly are doing and they're really serious improving their health and i think whatever works is what you should do well i think that the removal of refined carbohydrates almost helps everybody i agree does the if not the removal the severe restriction just restrict most i mean i think a day a week just have at it you have a fucking slice of pizza who gives a sh it go to i don't think there's anything wrong with the cheat day but i think overall find carbohydrates just do not seem to be a healthy nor normal thing for your body to consume well if we look at
so historically i mean you know we didn't consuming dairy till about twelve thousand years going to start farming till about the same time so those things aren't really novel you know we didn't start eating all this process stuff called one hundred crisco came out in nineteen ten or something like this all that crap we've invented in the last century and then when high fructose corn syrup came in in the 70s all for him human body just hasn't evolved for yet so i think region working seriously messed up on that stuff yeah and if you look at the change in our diet is a corresponding up tick in diabetes and all sorts of other obesity factors and health issues sugar and refer find carbohydrates does the two big ones there the other debate is whether or not eating all this meat is healthy for you and what about diverticulitis have you ever heard about people getting max i know dats what brock lesnar got and one of the things said they said that he got it from meat eating mostly meat interesting this is actually guiding p e r r why perry to study two thousand and fourteen he did colonoscopies right so we actually looking people people one
first ones to do this and he looked at people on these diets and he found that the people that ate the highest amount of fiber and had them bowel movements had the most incidence particular system and diverticulosis precedes diverticulitis soda particular just a little pouch that shoots out from your colon looks like a little sack so what happens is that eventually gets infected then you get diverticulitis on people that were developed diverticula system most in his study he two or three like this ones are reading a bunch of fiber and there's also studies on so that fiber gets caught or something is that potentially so the question is what is you know this is another thing people don't understand because a lot of people want to ketogenic diets and they fiber like there fly with constipated right i mean you know so basically i haven't had a bowel movement in a year you know it's got yeah true obviously but so what happens is you just don't make anything i mean you know all that meat it goes right in your small intestine system absorption next to nothing just to your
one is a realist yeah there's nothing there's hardly anything you see table type groups exactly what if you like one of those dues is backed up you don't even realize it you got like twenty pounds of on digest is not always the funny yeah that's the thing like john wayne civil yeah but what happens is was the story well he died with a cold full of stuff but they say because one ball well but i mean who knows it was it wasn't me you know we'll look at this job if you go to the bathroom and you too much corn he looked down there sometimes there's some corn floating around wins last sometimes almost every time woods last time you saw a piece of steak floating around in the toilet bone t bone that may be reading but this doesn't get there i mean it's it's it's it's a total myth and so when we talk about what causes constant which is probably a neurologic things is probably not much the colon is not correct contracting correctly it may have to do electrolyte deficiency only varies depending on my diet when i eat a lot of vegetables manages comes flying out like well it's 'cause you just put more in right you're not
let's play your dispute is put your stuff in one year to shovel more stuff through the tube sort of but it seems like it comes out quicker like when i drink the craziest thing short sure for me is kale shakes drink kale shakes wu hang on hannah where you going to buy your i mean you're getting a bunch of liquid fibers getting in your colon like which cleans it all out makes me feel good though well it maybe there's some people do but there's no real prize for the most by when you at the end of your life you're not going to get award for more having more bound moments you don't you don't you don't shift are you sure well i'm not percent sure but i'm not so but that's i ii again um but most people think that just in all seriousness sort seriousness that that consuming fiber is important for like bowel movements and overall intestinal health and all that stuff yeah there's no doubt the more fiber eat more battles you're going to have but what happens if you get constipated there's another study about this they look the people with chronic constipation there were always constipated
the only thing that helped him was taking all five or have their diet really there's a study that's crazy because that's what people like the mute meat was a cup musa still with that stuff once and then are you so many meusel esalen film out like yeah yeah yeah but what happens is what you as you've got a neuromuscular problem with a colon is not tracking the right way and so you're black up and they need to show more fiber and just fills up more and more and eventually just maybe you might be able to force it all through but that's not you know how that's you know that's a lot of people will say that i will tell you there's a lot of people tell me fiber just jacks up their intestines i mean they feel awful when they take a lot of fiber i have heard that before when people tried five or supplements that they have issues now you very do you eat lamb occasionally or wild game or if it's available i mean you know i'm pretty happy with with but i mean when i was i in france
this year and i had just a bunch of lamb you know that's easier to get i'll have some time with chick in you know when gaming well i don't get a gaming since i started this but i used to be in elko foreign deer and chili's and stews and stuff like that so that's that's well i mean but you don't necessarily eat a lot of chicken it's mostly red meat yeah i just find it and there's a lot of people like me to do this they just find chicken is not as satisfying it's just it's probably not as nutritious you know it's just kind of like it doesn't feel as satisfying when you're eating it you know it's it's probably not you know i think it's just harder yeah i'm always trying to figure out like what is that response that you get when you slice into a steak and it's juicy and delicious and your whole body goes like oh i think that you know i think the primitive thing that goes back one hundred thousand years i mean that's like that's like the point of all this
honey we did and it's just what the what what kind of satisfies that's why i was trying to explain to people that the difference between black domestic beef versus like a slice of like a moose tenderloin like the difference in the richness of the flavor and the darkness of the meat and the mission content of the food is so much higher than the is higher too like the one you slice into and you like oh my god it just your body is like depp more that there we go that's what we're looking for i think it's a primal thing i think it's just like this is satisfaction there really is well the vegan army has they've got their true just pointed in your direction right sure yeah i mean i got a bunch of tweets you and one of the one of the tweets was talking about your record as a doctor in mexico as you and i went back and forth sure sure sure so let's let's get that out and try to figure out what the issue was sir all right
so so you know i was in a like i said no that's kind of my back a little bit so i you know i go to i go to medical school degree in biology that i'm going to medical school then i drop out of medical school to play free rugby i just kind of crazy crazy career then i go into the military and launch nuclear bombs for you know five years nuclear bombs yeah that was a nuclear bomb launch officer for about five where do you still launch nuclear bombs well i mean up in wyoming and nebraska and colorado and they actually detonate them no no that's where that's where you shoot him from right ok so you didn't actually launch but you will workout knows a guy that if we went to war on donald trump says we want to nuke n korea out of and the guy goes boom first button right so i did that so you know they do all this crazy psychological screening to make sure you're not some cycle path you know so i'm just like straight sickle guide it's just like you know good good solid guy at the top secret clearance and all this stuff so i do all this stuff so
play rugby and then i can't get my head kicked in and i was playing remember last match is playing at some russian team i'm laying on the ground and it just came out teen awful kicking me in the head i got it's coming out of my ears i'm like i'm thirty years old i'm like f and i wanna go back to medical school so so i go back medical school with military pays for it this time so then you know i do time and you know go through go through school with my training i graduate top right it's not my class in medical school 'cause getting orthopedics you gotta you gotta be like this one competitive skills you got to be really at the top of the class to do this i do that stuff do all my training bust my to really well get all these awards and training then i get to military and they send me to war rights afghanistan and this is if it's i'll it's a little bit yes please so i'm come out of training that long it's raining mean this other dudes name is tom large excellent excellent surgeon could one of the great great people me and him are the only two guys the main center in afghanistan so you fly out there it takes about three days
to bangor me and the old ladies give you lobster bisque on the way out it's kind of cool then you fly into turkey and then we sat for like six hours on a runway wouldn't let us move that lives off the plane they flash into kurdistan which is the part of the soviet soviet union so we've got a us base and was using soviet union so we stay there for awhile it's freezing cold and then we get on this c one hundred and thirty which is a military plane you packed in there with the cargo and you fly in yes and they're shooting at just like turn off the lights so the they to hopefully no shoot at you commit so we get in there and then i get off the plane and they put in his giant hall with like three hundred guys on cots first and then we go to the first to go to work right we're taking over from the army and i wasn't here for some time so over the first thing roles in this poor i remember and and it was like welcome war there the guy canadian guy twenty three year old kid you special this guy you know full beard 'cause you know special
schedule where beards 'cause it was so they could blend in right both legs blown right off i mean looking like holyshit you know this is like this is stuff just got real so every day bumble bumble trump trunk crazy trying we would get people blown up i mean their whole their legs are being on the site thursday day we got there we had a in with seven ok this is an enemy we're taking enemies too right he said bring up a roadside bomb to kill our guys ready for me to seventeen year old kid from pakistan well he blows himself up blows up both legs above the knee one of his arm and most of his hand so he's basically i mean he's got nothing left operating on this guy would you all these operations is basically say the kids life even though he's anatomy this is a position you just that's just your job right so what happens to this guy is so we fix him up it takes us months to get him stabilized and they take him out the gate the afghan army this doesn't shoot him in the head or else i think like fuck you what the hell are we doing here you know it's like ridiculous doing all this work kill these people did they did
because they knew who he was and what is on the other news an enemy and so you know they don't you know they don't play games or play games and so on this happen the other way to round we saw that seems like a lot of wasted money it is the worst it's hard breaking it in there and so we're getting i'm getting these people their blown up by rock it's a whole new standard patch to the means of x even if it's the enemy like you're in the military you're you're working as a surgeon your overseas to taking care of the i mean obviously it's a seventeen year old kid right it sounds like not even his fault this is the thing i mean a lot of deals with him on at the time and these guys are like if you don't come fight for us we're going to grasso allottees little kids are out there doing so that they don't know so they want to do is not going to be guys so you can we doing like you know it's like hey it's not my job to punish these people is my job to take care of these people were you there when they shot the kid or just heard about it were like what happened while he killed
we are by the several our patience happened is is pretty pretty frustrating so we get in there and there's like people like i mean the kids were in his little kids to three year old kids stepping on landmines legs blown off we had one little free kid i mean he was i mean he was i mean the drug him behind a truck for like a mile in the drug this kid through the streets of the rough for castle street and if the lakes ripped off means kids road rash actually his legs were ripped off his burned everywhere and we're integrating this why did they do that till i don't know just mad at their parents i don't know this is not this is not a light friendly place right this is life is inconsequential consular there is a there was our but we had a pediatrician who is talking to this guy who was a farmer right and he tell us about his tractor right he's real proud had attract's real expensive have a tractor in there so what he would do 'cause tractors real valuable he would have his kids walk in front of the track so they didn't have any land mines oh my god so if your kid
he's like i can make another kid this is the mentality there you know it's just god oh my god i can't even hear this i mean it's crazy stuff so we get into imagine you have kids could you imagine telling your fucking kid to walk in front of landmines i couldn't do it i mean it would be it would be it would be awful oh jesus christ so we get this stuff and then once you know scheming giving gifts this keeps getting worse i mean it's like every day we get these people with you know they're blown up you're looking at their hips ac so you let your leg eyes lander was late completely gone you can see a spine's hip socket day in and day out we're seeing is stuff we get we had this one we have had some remember dick cheney was vice president right yeah so flies into the base right and it was supposed to be secret no one supposed to know about it but did that i tell him i'm guys found out about it right so what they do is they go to our gate
set off a suicide bomb and it is kill i mean tons of people and we get all these casualties most of our most immersive millions right so we get all these civilian casualties little kids and adults you know in their suicide vests they put all these morning like these metal bearings like half inch thick metal bearing and they cover up and cover his shift so they get infected and they blow through people i mean you get people with go into their brains shattered bones everywhere and all these people are just you know this is chaos and all these people get swarmed in there getting stuff on this was the biggest one we had and so we were i mean we literally forty hours straight you're working you trying to save peoples lives you know operating with a general surgeon peoples bellies which i'm not trying to do but i'm just helping we're trying to do this stuff so in the middle of this operation here in their operating you know take trying take the people in your in the operating room is just a little i mean it's like a little
metal storage building it's like a like a little like a little like you're moving a little pods things you know they stick a couple operating beds in there and we're going as fast and were wearing body armor we have nine millimeter strapped to us and operating it's hard to move around it's real small and we're sitting in there and they say hey guys we think there's another bomber inside the hospital you know in the hospital people off so you're single your butt hole tightens up here like fuck i gotta keep operating you could say this guys life we just like well we're going to we're going to go right so we just keep keep operating fourteen a neon didn't a fact they thought it is a semi snuck in as a casualty so that is something do that they blow people up that she's vectorized so it's like you know it's freaky and so i was like what an insane environment how long were you there for six months yeah so that's i mean that's that's pretty crazy stuff so
you know we get out of there and you know i mean it was just it was just you know the tremendous experience i mean it's just like 'cause there was nothing i could see that after that it was like that ain't nothing everything so after that i just originals like this is no big deal right right so then i get out and then i get out of the military do it on the five years is taken care of normal guys in military right do you think your troops and stuff like that doing fine i work for all hospitals and hospitals and never had any problems and i get to problems and hospital in get this other hospital i the windows group and they make me the head of the group right it's kind of group it's just like an orthopedic surgery group in and room when i got there they were like two guys and they weren't doing hardly any business at all of like really slow no one knew they were there you know in part of his big food group had all these other doctor but even know they existed so i got there and i said well this is crap one this is known was seeing anything that refusal this space and i got there and i said hey man i'm going we talked all these other doctors and let him know we're alive that were here and that
we're going to see anything you want to send us and will take care of it if we can't will make sure it's taken in that so that happened and we started growing right so we went from to as to twelve guys in about three years and so and we were very very busy real busy group and the the rival grew from out of town from across the street didn't like it what could we were taken millions of dollars from them tens of millions of dollars in their business right orthopedic surgeries very very lucrative for a hospital hears things like cardiology where they're putting in stents and server procedure based practices make a lot of money for hospital so they really like it right so they're really happy ever had with me i'm like the you know i'm like a hero because they're like when you're making a lot of money the group crosstown doesn't like me very much 'cause i'm taking all their money away so they approached us and they said you know to join our group our group take care and i said no i don't want to do that to my partner's did they she left so i'm the only holdout but still going up so building the group and so i'm
the head i'm like the head of the snake the right but here's kind of him so i'm busy i'm doing well my patients are happy i'm doing really well i've got low real low complication rates you know everybody's you know i'm very yeah i'm on billboard on magazines i'm going to radios you know i mean just i'm just a poster board basically right so then as i found with my diet i started seeing patients can better by just changing your diet when look in orthopedics orthopedics know bone disease occur threat there's nothing about died in there i mean you were study about it if someone comes in your office you know you'll tell him you know we can give you some tyler we can give you some you know another an inflammatory drug we can we can six a cortisone in your name you know if that doesn't work maybe it's in your physical therapy might put a scope in there and if none of that works you know this is an end stage we're going to replace your knee right so what i was finding as i started doing this with patience is that
these are getting better just by changing or not put him on a ketogenic diet at that time i was doing keto so i was like hey and try this so mine in my nurse and i had this and this is one of the things that kind of i'm very jaded about the way the business side of madison is now this has been a pretty pretty interesting experience for me so i had a nurse it was just i mean she was wonderful person i mean nicest sweetest gal in the world she would work so hard for these patients who take care of anything you need done you tell her hey take care and she was just awesome right the hospital said you're staying in too late and we have to pay you overtime and she's like well i'm taking care of patients but we don't care how much you work late 'cause it costs too much money so it's just like the only things were you starting to see that you know it's all about the money and then they were like so all these surgeons are you know as a certain you used to using certain equipment you like you know i'm using this particular thing to replace people joints and you do it for years and years and years and you get pretty good at it and see what the hospital said is hey we got a bargain deal with this other company so you're going to use that you know we're like no we don't use that we learn how to do not use that stuff so
force everybody to do this just to save you know with some new surgical equipment that we signed yeah they will basically you know there's a system is like if you travel for truck your whole life zero find stammers and then they see no you're gonna drop shipping now right but this is surgical this is our witness that was certain it the whole reason is that we're going to save you money all the stress for pitching once you guys are already using my don't care and this is the other group we don't care but our group was like we do user stuff manage that stuff we don't know how to use this computer right you're not adapted to you're going to compromise patient care a little bit for this so yeah this is one of those things where i'm at how is very vocal against this i was like man i don't know this bs is going this is what we're trained on you know we're gonna we're gonna end to end up you know there's there's many places are b problematic from the stuff so it's in a side thing and then there was a system where it's another we put in the the you know this one thing that all physicians take the single what tronic medical record is a computer based record not that it's a computer but sing but they're awful i mean they sit there and there
function is to collect billing and to do coding so it's a as much information as you can so you can build more right that's that's you know white hospital like i'm so they put this on you and it's like you know it's like really hard to take you know to put good in for no is generated bunch of data that's totally illogical you can't you look at us like you get twenty is bs and stuff you need so where did it all go bad so then we so basically what happened when i started telling people i don't want to i'm to start talking people out of surgery right i started saying i don't we can surgeon then i started talking to the administration say hey guys i really want to spend a day a week just doing lifestyle counseling i don't want to no i don't want to know because we do this this can work on so you're making the cutting motion like honestly server right so they're basically said no there's no appetite for that your skill is a certain we want you there in other words keep magnets alot of money right right so i'm like you know
you know and and my nurse will take me i was putting out i made a list of all this reading remember like you know hey gary taubes midnight had his book and i had need a title book around and i had got him butter re examine all these cute janick things princes and i was handing them out twenty twenty five on every single day and i running time of the patients you know normally normally don't like eighty eight minutes to see a patient in figure out the problem lion go go go and i was like now in twenty minutes talking these guys about diet so you know that i'm seeing less patience and the hospital saying you we don't we don't really like that so because i was ahead of the group and as well liked by everybody i really good patient records i mean really good patience which faction you really look complication rates i mean they were like well we don't like that so then they go there's something called peer review right so they can just pull your records and say we don't like it did this and
yeah we're we're going to we're going to we're going to criticize your work so they did that i went through there and this one of things they said well every surgeon will have x amount of complications right it's like you know if you do you know one hundred surgeries about five percent you can be some complications some is to get infection some is be you too much i'm getting a blood clot you know if it's speak certain maybe one of the screws you put in breaks or listings are all complication that happens to everybody no matter what so what they said is there's there's a low threshold there's like a we're say every year we're going to give you two complications that were your fault right 'cause most of the time we have complications like matters not but in quitman failure things yeah or so they'll say you made the wrong decision that led to a complicated so let's say you can get 2a year right and it doesn't matter if you do one hundred surgeries a year or you do five hundred surgeries here the numbers still two right i'm like
'cause i was there for like five years and like every year was like one one one one just nothing minimum right one but one year they go back so you have three this year i'm like yeah but i do five times many surgeries anybody else what it matter we're going to we're a pair of you so what they do they hired another group that was passing taken ten million dollars a year from they hire dear god that guy to look through my stuff why would they do that 'cause that's what they wanted to do but why would they do that if that person on the other side is the competition because in the position to do it right now so in the end that's not supposed to have it be like if you were a bit ola tour guide and said i want the bellator guide to review the ufc right i think logan sucks is an announcer i have ability to our guy go after him right total conflict of interest right so i and i'm like this naive ethical guy it's like well you know why i know i could care rises we're doing fine and then uh you know like ok well ok that's fine and so they
back in the guide and they look at least they looked at a dozen cases they selected you can pick whatever they want and they said well he said i think these cases were below average i don't like you document stuff and this and i disagree what you did so i'm like fine i said well that's okay you know you know and i said what do i need to stop operating some like i said no no no no you're fine we're going we were going to get independent review right this is supposed to be someone with no conflicts in metrics right so the way this is supposed to happen is that they supposed to let me see what the cases are and put my comments in there and they were this must be totally image so what they did in dead instead is they wouldn't let me know any of the cases they told me you can't see anything right anne the guy that would have the conflicts of interest they gave him all of his findings and send him to this guy right this guy and i you know i don't know the situation with this guy but
i found this out six months later he is either senile or totally drunk i mean it was just like you know get this report and it's just bad it's like looks really bad and i'll about some of the details in a second but it just looks really bad and they come many often see we got this really bad in pain the independent report right and i'm like what case we can't tell you it's really bad and we're going to we're going to suspend you privileges were not going to work here anymore so essentially what you're trying to say is they targeted you and they targeted you because you were changing what you were doing and you we're trying to counsel people with lifestyle and they decided to pick on you and try to find things that were wrong and some of the past surgeries you don't i think there's a combination of factors a combination of income problems were were not some people were doing intentionally but there was there was definitely possibly i some of that going on but anyway so they get this report and the guy there's two people bring office say you know we're going show
you can't go to your clinic you can't talk to anybody who work with and now you access to all clinic charts are going to if your email you can't look at anything right like i'm i just committed murder like i'm some pariah and then they say then the guy and i'm like you know i'm like i mean select my kid just died this is something i spent my whole life training for you know i'm doing this stuff and it's like you know i mean it's like you're like days fusion numb i mean i'm like no i'm like i don't know i'm like i'm like i'm going to drive my freaking car off a cliff you know you're like suicidal almost you know so comes a meaningless hey man we got this really bad it's tough when he was going to really bad we're going to take it to a committee in a couple of days and i think the thing you can do is just say you're sorry write a letter i'll even help you write this letter he on the second the wrong thing so i'm like okay i'll do this until letter saying yeah you know probably under stuff different i don't know what the cases were but probably
so you're saying this without even have reviewed the case is that they're condemning you on absolutely 'cause i was trying to talk did you not get a lawyer i did afterwards but i don't change that 'cause i know you have been a straight laced ethical guy my whole life so when you did afterwards that the lawyer go back and look at that confession or whatever you would call it she said well this is preposterous because you're not even talking about a specific case well she said it was probably something he shouldn't have done obviously but this guy was on the committee that condemn right so this is a guy that's only set you up so some way so this is what i want to say that because you still want to be a doctor well so this is uhm so basically take this committee right in the hand report this is all last match and my confession right and this is all this is basically see what they have to go on no one knows anything about the cases and this is all these people that are doctors but they're not surgeons right all they are is it would be if you were reviewing mma guys so let's say you want to kick somebody out of the ufc 'cause you said his performance isn't up to snuff
too much a tennis players and golfers and said hey man we don't think he has in temperatures sucks zero sets of these people have no freaking clue right right no clue about what and they don't have specific cases they'll go on a civil case and i'm not allowed to talk about right i don't know the specific cases so then i railroad job so so then i you know i kind of would come out of his hayes and i look at there said we'll give you a fair here is what they call it federal law requires us to give you a fair hearing right so i get a lawyer and this is expensive as shit you know i'm not not even come anymore so i'm spending all this money on lawyers fees and his tail hospital drags out they won't release records for like six months or six months goes by i mean here for small kids i'm like fucking going to feed my my kids are in school like one autistic son and needs therapy and you know this is this is tough so i'm going through this stuff so let's go to the then i finally get the cases right cases right look into the cases and what the guy wrote
not only are errors there or agree geass errors and there's multiple and they're just horrible i mean they're just so wrong i mean i just wanted to get senile or drug couple examples and anyway the service is listening to us know immediately what i'm talking about but i'll try to make it make sense for other people so of these twelve aces two of them were something called a reverse shoulder replacement so what happens is have shorter words out you can replace your shoulder right replacing some people what do you put in there some sort of artificial joint yeah so this is what this is what i'm talking about so normally it's a ball and socket joint right so there's something called a reverse shell replacement which you basic switch it around you put the ball where the socket was and where the ball was which sounds totally crazy right right this is in france in and then the fda approved this in two thousand and four so two thousand approved in the us originally was approved for one reason right if your shoulder is totally arthritic
real bad also and you don't have a rotator cuff anymore it's completely gone right so that's what it was first approved for but over the years over the next five hundred and ten years people started using it for all these other things and getting really really good results with it you come in there with a blasted apart shoulder this crash and broken you're an older person people do that all the time so that's what i did i basically put a nor universe shoulder in a person who broke their arm at this twice and now not only did the patient do well i mean the patient was happy as can be they're great they're like no one knew the outcomes of these patients patients happy as can be but the guy right because he's old i think it doesn't know the new record hasn't read literature until right she put in backwards no he puts its not indicate this the only reason to do it is for an arthritic i with missing but he doesn't know that over the last ten years all kinds of different reasons to use it so he basically tells this committee he's doing operation anybody named knows that's not the case right so there's another case
yeah it's ok we don't have to keep just going over case after case is going to get a little drag down but what does it stand right now so basically what happens is so they drag this out a year and a half right and they finally you know at the end you know until it 'cause it 'cause i gotta tell you part so i go through this is important i go through and compile all these cases right you can get a holiday to refute this and pull all these references in text books and all this stuff and i'm like this is a walk in the park right i'm going to anybody who sees us in their right mind is going to see that they screwed up and there's all these errors it's wrong so i see in discovery process you send all this information and then then they fade then they realize it wait a minute there's a lot of errors in here so now they have to pick a hearing officer right like the judge his word goes they pick another they get another search that give me a list of surgeons to choose from so you can have any of these guys you want and let's listen there's one guy remember that group but competing with him he's in that group
and i'm like i don't want him 'cause he's on the other group and they said no he just retired and we went and we're going to make you use him right so they pick the judge and then on top of that they pay him ok so they're paying this guy right so they review all this stuff and i've got this stuff and i'm going through case after case where i'm like the patient didn't get impatient doing great they didn't get hurt there's nothing wrong with him and the lawyers from the other side are like well you can't do this no harm no foul stuff like what are you talking about you know no one everybody's doing great but he's like well i you could have done something different or something like that if you look at a malpractice case the first thing you have to do is prove harm right if no one gets hurt there's nothing there knowing no one did but it's just like so the guy at the end of it goes to reese's yeah there are a lot of errors right they're paying this guy and a chick chosen but i think patients too much choice in their care which is i'm like what are you talking about
so if i if i said the criticism was that that's all they have said there's no he said it was the barriers are and they said you give patients too much choice and you didn't documents stuff as well as you should have right and i still think they should have just suspended you so this is this the decision to make based on that and i will if anybody was on that committee that new because people know me on the committee new uh could never had problems with me so that's why they were shocked when this came out but they do that information i'm she commits that would be a different so where is it stand so then you know i get done with that and then the state gets involved 'cause they have to respond any complaints state state gets this complaint save new mexico it is kind where is my next door neighbors on the state board and i'm just like totally avoiding taxes i don't want to influence anything right i'd be giving him no but i just didn't want to do that and i even told him i said hey my next door neighbors on your born right so i don't want to be totally ethical about this this is the story so i you know they say dude i like flowers or maybe maybe give me that look steak or something like that so then you know
or gets us and i said hey man this is a bad recommendation and we're going to give you two options you can suspend your license you can voluntarily suspend your surrender your license or you can go to trial you know we can do another hearing which probably year it's going to cost you tons of money you know what i don't i'm tired of this i'm lawyers spend lost money and i'm not i'm still trying to feed my kids so there and you know the states is or what you can do is will send you to a place that evaluate you independently everything goes well give you license back so that i said ok that's what i'm going to do something i don't want spent spend four thousand dollars in one year when i can do this spend twelve thousand dollars and get it they wouldn't go from there so that's where will this week in fact i was in denver being with these other service and they're just like going through all this case case case would you do would you do would you do and i am clearly you even though i have done this stuff in two years i'm clearly convinced that they're going to say hey man you're fine and they're going to say
go operate with somebody they allowed to look at those cases where you were judged upon poorly they're not they're not they're not really wanted to be totally in function in saying so how do you make a living now turn off my savings usa look up some money so i lived off that and that's mostly yet you know so i'm just kind of slowly watching my he's doing the land jesus christ as head of a stressful it's kind of stressful i mean you know i've got a good for makes a good living but i you i don't want to be in a but i've got kids we've got kids i've got to keep her and i've got three kids my ex life in the role young kids and so i'm back in switching i'm traveling back in town man back and forth trying to support these kids and i had to pull my kids out of school i want to different school 'cause wasn't there anymore yeah it's so it's kind of a pain it's kind of sucks so where's the stand as far as like getting your license reinstated so probably so we are just in denver this it'll take about eight weeks so they'll give me a give me a plan will say okay we think that you know i am almost one hundred events are going to say you know we need
you to go work with some dude almost 'cause you're out practice i think brian of doing that then the board state or it will review what they say and all they say hey man you're you know what you doing they'll give it back to me so insane yeah so anyway it's you know it's again i don't blame the state board i don't blame the on the committee 'cause they were clueless i didn't know what i blame some incompetence by the administrators you know and just whoever reviewed me you know if it worked end times jim thank you club and like what the right you know i understand and that's that's very disheartening but it's i have a friend who's going through a very similar type situation who was also a surgeon there's yeah i think people need to understand that the medical business is in fact a business now and we think of hospitals as being these completely
you know egalitarian places that just stayed they exist to heal people and to do the best job they sort of do but they also need to make a lot of money well i gotta pick awesome yes i understand that but there's a point where you know it's kind of like you've got to make a decision tween patient care you yeah and the ceo making making elect now they do that with animals too i mean you gotta be really careful had a friend who had a recent situation happened with his dog where they were telling his dog him his dog needed to get some crazy surgery and he did have the money for it and he's like are you sure you sure they need and he said i had to ask them over and over and over again he said finally the veterinarian said well we could try a steroid the dog and see if that works fix it andred and the standard cost like one hundred and fifty dollars versus some thirty thousand dollars surgery but they kept pushing the surgery which would defuse the dogs discs there
this needs to happen need to do this and it's like it's is used is no other options with exhausted all possible options and then fine after asking over and over and over again she suggested meekly this which instantly fixed it it's kind of sad within like two months the dog one hundred percent it's going alright 'cause i know we had chris kresser on here awhile going to listen to a little bit of stuff and then his premise at the beginning which i haven't book yet but i think it's great i mean here's a problem western medicine you know we're facing this i mean it's like a war against chronic diseases like we're being invaded by november a stay with that yes in doctors we got bb guns the stuff we're shooting at them doesn't work for chronic disease now cute stuff it's different you know there's some stuff that we have this wonderful technology but right in the middle diabetes and obesity doctors agree for fixing broken up joyce broke as long as there's no doubt about that yeah even even like arthritis i saw everyday you know if we were trained properly in the two
version and exercise that's what i've done my whole life you know and i know what i'm doing exercise wise but you know if we were done how to do that instead of training all these you know the radiology technicians blood draw technicians and nursing assistance if you had an army of preventive right in medicine people you know then we trade all these people going to people's homes yeah i think chris was talking with that and just get the crap out of their diet and show them how to be healthier you know i mean you would save you know it's fun watching the politicians debate about healthcare how to find it you know it's like you guys are arguing about the tie kit tannic is coming up in the iceberg and you don't your organ about the color of the deck chairs i mean we're going over a cliff and and we're not fixing it by keeping putting in a bandage and i'm going to write the technology is not going to fix diabetes nutritionist yeah your dear essentially dealing with the problem when it's already gotten to a point where you're in the hospital yeah i mean there's like
there's a guy peter attia if you know he is but he he talks about when he was a certain he said he was at the bottom of a building and somebody throwing eggs off and his job is to catch the eggs are gone right and he's like why would have a guy stop fucking throwing out that's what medison is you're distracting the eggs and so instead of that we should be invest you know we talk about prevention but it's bullshit we don't do anything for prevention it's so little and then the problem is a lot of it is it doesn't work the way we designed you know yeah there's a there's a lot of money in fixing you and there's not a whole lot of money and telling you to eat well there's not there's not enough but it is a changing climate though with because of people at chris kresser and rob wolf and doctor rhonda pack trick in a lot of others we're giving out really good nutrition advice and people are changing the way they eat and think about food an it's having a massive effect on the information that they carry their body i know so many people that used to have joint pain
a great example is the primal kit access mark systems book which is fantastic and his story mark story about having his own inflammatory issues with his hands he had pretty severe arthritis he thought was just going to be with him forever he changed his diet reduces all the refined carbohydrates beach goes on this protein high fat diet it all goes away yeah there's so many examples of that and i just watch this documentary called what's with wheat and it's all about glyphosate in the wheat browned up and how when they it's safe for people to consume they say well only effects plants and bacteria like what about your microbiome your microbiome it was filled with bacteria and you're killing that stuff like we don't think of that as being an issue you know we don't think of
sedentary lifestyle as being an issue when it comes to the ultimate cause for you to wind in the hospital needing surgery but absolutely what is i can tell you one of the things i like to see because you know when you're when you're urgent need like sometimes with bad arthritis in your place hernia they feel better for a while you're great man i really help this person then they come in next year in their other needs all jacked up another place that well you should have just done some so they didn't need our threat didn't get didn't surgery on another time yeah i've had conversations with people that their dad that needs an artificial knee and i'm like are you sure are you sure like yeah he's limping bad i mean really can't take it anymore like have you exhausted all possible options like what have you done about the diet now he won't he's not into that he's always not into that okay here's because no one's demonstrated that works but i will tell you this is a this is a man you know well no one's demonstrated it in terms of like scientific right but i will tell you that you know just to you because i i well i told you not because i'm a
free 'cause i'm just hitting me and i'm doing this athletic stuff and nobody says you're an outlier your genetic freak whatever right here at n equals one so we made this website called n equals many minutes other air force guy that he's also a carnival got this thing we said what if people saw the gathering this information together and we could start documenting that's what we did so we i put out a survey on twitter i said hey how many guys would be willing go ninety days just be too much of steaks and i had like four hundred many followed by like four hundred people yeah will do it that's amazing we we put the we you know we develop this website and it's called any because many dot com for people to see to develop website and we start getting these first equal sign eq eq spell don't put in equals on a website now any many dot qualls so we do this and we get all these let's sign up having about close to one hundred people just do ninety days it just hang me and then we and again there's a lot of scientific root things you can criticize about
you know it's just guys hate me anecdotal stuff that goes down but you know when we got done and i've got the results are we we're still analyzing the data could all do this for free and we were trying to get people to help us analyze the data and you know but of these one hundred people you know there's about eighty five actually of these p so we asked him what happened to your general health what happened your sexual health would happen to your exercise capacity what happened your gi healthier skin right every we have to all these questions and all there was maybe one one percent or they said it got worse ninety nine percent got better much better or say say no it was just like unanimously everybody got pretty much the same is it is a possible this some bias in that group because they're following you absolutely i mean i i'm for that right and that's that's you know that's but it's interesting but then we're getting small habit to know you like about lab data so i get people and i don't have access to all the data and i didn't want it i didn't want to have access to date i don't want to bias myself against it so i'm getting fed today
right and i'm seeing that people's blood pressure is normal eyes peoples hemoglobin a1c which is measured measured lucas is normalizing people's inflammation markers are normalizing all these markers of disease are going in the right direction you know we're just saying good stuff you know because a lot of people say meat causes diabetes because causes hypertension he had the only time i've ever seen me causes diabetes is not wacky what the health documented which has been widely disproven you know we had it rewrote a whole piece about that debunking that like how much stuff in that is like fake science what they're saying about meat causing diabetes there's no evidence of that yeah i mean they look some asian association and stuff and that's all they ever do i mean it's like some associations but they're putting it out as if it's one hundred percent factual and like the sounding the alarms like this is what's causing diabetes it's meet me while they were complete ignoring the consumption of all these find carbohydrates these people are eating with the meat yeah i mean how to i mean that's totally true
i mean the you know and so what i think is so nice about studying these people they're just eating meat i mean you isolate the surprise early isolate so we we know what happens when you just you know are they allowed to take supplements during the time that we had we had so many we with the the what we seven document yeah we had document stuff and some do some you know it's kind of like one of those things where we could we never done this before like when we made him document all kinds of stuff and a lot of people some of the people in this league doctor document too much stuff like it's too much of a hassle quarter stuff so we had certain set the dropped out because it doesn't want to document stuff we had a certain percentage dropped out because they didn't feel they felt like they a low energy it's a lot of people when they do this they just can't eat very much i mean they did full and they're not eating enough and so that's one of the biggest things i tell people when they switch over this eat meat like it's your job that's why tom you gotta eat eat eat eat initially it shouldn't ages eat till they're not hungry anymore well the problem is you the problem is a lot of people lose weight on this you know a lot of people getting lean on this stuff is
you know your hunger goes down pretty low because you're you know you're reading a lot of fattening lower protein you know especially if you're eating green ribbon sticks you know it's probably about seventy percent fat thirty percent protein something like that so i mean it's really really satisfying and so you know the the the the tent up to ten under because no one's used to like if i sold you joke we four pounds me today they're gonna be like well i mean i know you like me but i mean that's probably a big that's a lot so what you know and so to to to get used to that it takes awhile yeah it depends on your activity level 'cause i work out pretty damn hard i do it pretty often um so i'm going do some crazy shit man i saw you box jumps yeah yeah i mean i you know this is like i said this is a a you know back to that that glycolytic stuff do i mean i'm you know i'm my to exercise great one things to that felt no difference and start in order to be feel no difference between going from key to diet to eating meat or did it feel like you had more energy
more energy i had better libido you you wake up everyday you know you're ready to go you know it's like you i've had a couple p all that and i haven't tested but i had a couple of people have done this and again we need to get more data about a couple minutes at their testosterone level went up you know they went on all meet their testosterone went up about twenty percent and so i don't like well that's interesting i don't put a lot of faith in just a couple anecdotes that happens a lot of people to go on the ketogenic diet because the cholesterol is actually the precursor testosterone sure absolutely actually if you look at you know section in the us about nineteen seventy seven to red meat is gone in about thirty to forty percent really yeah we used to be way more in the 70s we had about three thousand and forty percent more red meat than we do now not kidding yep so our testosterone levels have dropped significantly in population testosterone levels have dropped about that same amount steve related a lot of red mean i would have never imagined main less now we listen we used to wow yeah so there's another interesting fact hong kong
right hong kong right now if you look up you google hong kong life expectancy they live the longest out of anybody on the world right they eat about forty percent more red meat than we do in the us for them and they have the longest list people in the world which is interesting yeah i'd read something that said that one hundred percent of all people that live over one hundred no some high number of all people that live over a hundred consume red meat you know because you know that know the the another really like to point out now it's a blue zone in the schools they looked at the people that lived over a hundred in okinawa none of them were vegetarians all of 'em ate meat yeah yeah so it does not not not a lot of good solid evidence that being a vegan is a solution to a long life well i mean you know that you know obviously there's there's different propaganda out there i think you know here's a you know if you want to do veganism and it makes you healthy fine most people can't we know that about right
the thing is we're not just talking about if you want to do it we're talking about people that are proselytizing like they have this idea and they push us did everybody's throats but if we're just looking at the actual data the health data like what's good for once bad for you it's there's no like overwhelming evidence that the vegan ways away to go no there's not i mean they're they're they're studies elect push but there's also studies show the you know the opposite effect you know if you look at the epic oxford study which had about sixty thousand people in it you know the show but vegetarians beings living no longer than mediators there's no difference right even though the mediators are probably the guys that don't care about their health through so they may not only is it not protective it may negative you can look at a study in austria look at two hundred and forty thousand people called the forty five and up study same thing we confess there is no load no leverage no longer life no better health and so it's kind of like so who do you believe in these guys have their studies that they're going to quote and you can share and i can cherry pick all day and other people can cherry pick all day it's just bs so
my best advantage vices this is i think best advice you can give anybody until we start seeing dudes around that are in shape and jacked it one hundred and twenty years old you're not going to know what's the right thing to do isn't so the device you can have is to get strong get healthy you know well do everything you can to make your health good and that's the best you can do because if you're healthy today odds are you going to be healthy tomorrow so you know fact so you still got a lot of muscle on you at fifty means you're more likely to have someone you're sixty i mean there's just no that's the biggest correlated best one of the best predictors of long life is your exercise capacity i think we should bring this up while we're talking about vegan diners other diets if you have a standard american diet of even eating a bunch of shitty food and fried chicken and bullshit bullshitin cheeseburgers and so and you go vegan you they'll be healthier sure because you're going to remove all that shity processed food out of your diet all the nitrites all the stuff that's unnecessary all the preservatives
you do that you will be healthier but doesn't necessarily mean the vegan diet so way to go i mean it just it means that the american diet that everybody like rightly size is the wrong way to go vegan it's certainly better than that yeah i mean you can double but anytime it's better than that yeah that's like in a lot of things you listen another point i bring out you know because one of the one of the differences between i sort of think is nothing i don't know i'll come out and say i don't know for sure i'm still learning this stuff but i'm willing to investigate it you know willing to put my body to test and have other people give me data but what i what we see when there's a big group out there says you should need a lot of protein you should really restrictor protein there are some data that it talks about something called amtor that you know maybe you know it causes cancer maybe it inhibits longevity and these lesser animals like mice a little tadpole devitto things in the and then there's another group of
write this out there is going to be stuart phillips out of canada it's looking at that it shows that you know the more protein you have space when you get older the going to preserve muscle the better quality life isn't likely long you're going to live you know and so what you know it happens a few autopsy an old person you know you get some you can you go to an old folks home their brain shrunk it's a shrunken way the protein in their bones have shrunken away their kidneys have shrunk their heart is their skin okay everything shrunk who's lost all this protein what happens is as you get older and older you lose some of the capacity to digest meat and so what happens is where does your body get that protein from it just starts taking it from you so if you start autocad cannibalizing yourself to sustain function unit sustain cellular function so if you're not getting that replaced you know through diet and meet his outstanding source
that you're going to be further and further we have an obesity epidemic but we also have a frailty epidemic there are people that are just i mean by the time they're forty mean we'll be split the week as can be yeah the so many people there just sedentary lifestyle is one of the biggest killers of your body for sure and there's so many people that you look at him like i was talking to you the other day and it looks like you could just grab his arm and pull it off his body like his his others were sunk in there was like no muscle tone at all and he had no exercise is that was none his life ever like maybe they made him do gym in high school and that was and you just younger than me yeah i can unite fifty or like the bar for a healthy fifty or normal fifty year old you know way down low and you know we're like total outliers you know this effect that we exercise and have a little muscle i mean that put you in the ninety nine percent all right interesting if you just continue it
about it is like i if i take a week off man boy do i feel it more at fifty than i did it third it's crazy that's true but i could still back in shape and once you get back in shape you just got to keep it going and if you just keep it going it will work for your body what we compare it's really interesting because what compare in terms of normal body function like the normal capacity that your body has we're generally looking at people that just the rich person will the average person doesn't really exercise very hard they don't so we don't have a lot of data on people that are in their fifties is still you know what i'm not let's go i'm going to keep this talking body strong i'm going to make sure i lift heavy weights i'm going to do hard cardio going to sprinting and kickboxing and a bunch of ship that requires los of energy and uh do that your body can stay by brett but you have to be diligent it's a important for people to understand this is not if you're just casual person who just kind
like half asses oh maybe we'll take a spin class good luck pitch your body going to die it's going to rot often fall apart but if you just decide to be militant about this you can keep a fun nobody far longer and it's not just about ego it's also just about the use of your meat vehicle like my body we could do a lot of ship that most people's bodies can't like if i want to pick something up i don't know to call somebody i just pick it up you know that which is that alone you know to know that you can carry yourself to know that you can do fifty chin apps to know that you can move your body around in a way that most people find to be almost impossible like i my body to work better you know it's like a race car and you can choose what horsepower engine it is based on how much work you put on it i mean it's actually what your body is you can choose how much tried having your tires you can choose how good the suspension is house well it is and how well it can maneuver based on how much plyo jen exercises you do or how many different explode
the maneuvers overs you know clean impresses and things along those lines you can get that body to work right yeah i think that you know if you look at the animals in the wild right now you know if you're looking at a pack of male getting hunted which was gonna get killed in which when i go to pick out the land of the frail slow week one right the old one so if human we don't get hunt by alliance but if you're a human if you say you might win was my peak athletics is you know maybe twenty five maybe thirty you know somewhere in our thirty third thirty five somewhere in there that's like your that's your top performers for most people yeah the close so you can maintain to that ability as long as you possibly can to do whatever it takes to get there the farther you life and death this is simple nature you know this slow the week they get eat they die they get disease it become disabled i don't want to be fifty a i don't to be a sixty year old guys walking around limping around you know needing assistance somebody that lift my groceries for me and this is what we have or even a woman mean women should be out there strength training getting stronger swinging heavy kettle bells jumping this other thing you brought explosiveness because i think
we're finally starting you know we finally went away from jogging right we went from the 1960s to the you two thousand already jogging that's what you do for health then people started sharing strength training so now we get people there in their lifting a little bit by think what you also i have to do and this is something 'cause i've got this little training system that you know helping people with but i think you have to do the two yeah i do i you know i i get in or the medicine balls i think a lot of people are you i take medicine balls and i try to break the thanks i hard as i can you know i'm jumping i said i'm jumping with a vest on other stuff you have to build up to and i have to be done in a safe manner you don't spring about airline by have you been on air died yeah yeah love those can just those of us who said you gotta get for here yeah we can once again as he sought to if you borrow yeah once no no he's i would tell you to do this company called fitness it makes an airdyne x we better than that air assault really pull that up
octane fitness scare dynex dynex x better x it it's just solid i mean it's solids can be i mean it's just it's just you you know in my view you know 'cause i've done everything train i mean i've broken world records on the concept two so i know how to do the intent stuff that air dyne those type things the best thing you could do for the short sprints i mean there's still out there there's so metabolically demanding i mean no they charge i mean i think the only thing that i've always had reservations about it's like the sitting down part as far as what 12v like you would get more exercise if you're supporting your body weight well i mean you know i don't you know there's a skier you can do stuff like that right but i mean if you if you get on that thing and you go as hard as you fucking can for thirty seconds or a minute then it's even more so every time set for minute feel like i'm literally going to drowned were going to die you know it's just like 'cause you know here's what i do i like all these things chainsaw intervals so i tell people pretend there
i'm fucking maniac with a chainsaw at you you know you gotta go as hard as you can hear it yeah there's i've got i've got i don't have that at home i have to order the regular air downwards i keep ranking the damn thing 'cause i go too hard you know just not strong enough but when i go commercial gyms you got it they just made that they showed they told they had me doing it there's another mma guy that i can't remember his name but he was like a pride champion guy like pride six or seven that wanted and he's at the gym sometimes when the california but but i mean that thing is huge do you have those damn sure those guys would come up here and let you demo it you know just get on there and go you know this is the thing i talk about when i talk about high intensity interval training you know a lot of people they don't get behind nasty park you know they'll do tabata is where they'll ninety percent hundred and the first one in the by the time the third one they're down like sixty percent right because the rest intervals are too short so i'm like man go like i'm kill you for twenty seconds and then rest three or four minutes
can go again 'cause then you keep hitting that high and that's what i do with exercise when it comes to weight lifting i take big breaks now used so for weightlifting i used to do like i started burn myself out go to failure look short is like i get thirty seconds break i come on next set next set i mean i do that anymore the problem with that is you just tired not your training at the time now there's a time to do the training you know like i said when i break it up when i tell people how to train i'm like look you train it for explosive and that's the only thing you care about you don't get tired 'cause you're going to going to waste you're not going to be intense enough the same thing with this printing the same thing will and give yourself enough of a break so that you can focus and do what you need to do then this conditioning time then you can go get tired night shift and do it with light weights this real problems with like you know i think crossfit a lot of good element still there i mean there's a lot of people who do well with it but some of the exercises they pick you know like when you get tired too and snatches the odds are you getting fuckedup our high very high so i always i tell people do something that's you know it's hard
and it's tiring when you get tired in your form breaks down you're not going to get hurt you know they may do medicine ball slams right if you're jumping up and down on a box and then you suck up right which bloody it's appointed that's alright i just have a yeah battle ropes were great one for that too there's no consequences to be too exhausted exactly i think that's the way to do that now i've been i've been training out forty years yet i haven't taken a week off taking a week off is all you know take a week off and say you know if you take too much time i don't feel good that's the other thing about this diet my recovery passage capacity is huge i mean i can train super intense every single day without a break and which is kind of nice i mean this is the other thing that i got people telling me all the time is you know there i mean npr's on deadlifts are doing all this personal record for non athletes yeah i'm sorry so i'm not used to it you know yeah you know i know about but i mean it's like you know i get these people all the time they're like man on hidden push of record chin up records but deadlift one up one hundred pounds in three months from from just eating meat and stuff like that so i think there's something to
we have people there are me my dad i put my right seventy four years old once in the diet he goes hey man this is the biggest my bison ever been in my life just so he's like he just putting on muscle just 'cause he's taken in so much animal tissue so listen man keep us posted on this keep me posted on like how your you know your own personal journeys gone and whatever evidence you collect with other people and i'm very curious i'm curious about this i might give it i for one month yeah here's ought to just a january and do it in january world carnivore month right jesus so we're trying to get as many people we get thousands of people on there just give us your date at any because many dot coms do month and she will carver month there's instructions on how to do that in this make your day going to be allowed to eat anything else yeah so i tell people you can eat meat eggs dairy cheese you know you can drink coffee stuff like that we didn't we just know vegetables for a month no fruits and vegetables from onenote plants for a month you can see if you put the seasoning on his chance i'll give it a chance i'll try i'll try
one month i don't know if i could do january find a month tell me if you need help thanks for the it was great thank you right you're ready for tune into the podcast and thank you to our sponsors thank you to put your box put ladies and gentlemen your neighborhood butcher for modern america free shipping anywhere in the lower forty eight order now and you can get ten dollars off plus free bacon by you the promo code rogan at butcherbox dot com you can cancel anytime without penalty so give it a try the prices twenty nine dollars a month which works out to less than six dollars a meal and shipping is free nationwide besides alaska and hawaii so order now and get sucks off plus free bacon by use the code rogan at butcherbox dot com check it out we're also brought to you by zip recruiter fine quality candidates quickly post to over one hundred of the web's lee
using job boards with just one click and try it out for free by going to zip router dot com slash rogan that's ziprecruiter dot com forward slash rogan to try it for free ok that's it for today but we got a lot of cool podcast scheduled folks we're going to return with the shrimp parade on monday yes duncan trussell and the great doctor chris ryan phd he will be here on monday i'm super pumped talk to him mic best will return from metabunk com the debunking site we're going to talk about myths and legends conspiracies and all sorts of cool stuff um neil
brandon will be here next week we got a lot of podcasts we gotta lotta should happen ok ok alright will talk to you folks soon we're talking at i guess we won't we will talk to you you don't talk back ok enough thank you appreciate everybody see you soon bye
Transcript generated on 2019-11-16.