Hey everybody: have the fuck are yeah. If you want to messing around going, how do I get a Fanny pack higher primate dot com, fanny packs? Jre Yeti mugs, their out of stock right now, those J, r r e powerful. What is it right say run Jerry. I know it has a logo that has the podcast logo on them. That's my store! I I've rarely talk about it because it seems weird to do all these ads for other things, even on it, which I'm a part of, but higher primate dot com. Is my company t shirts mugs all kinds of go there check it out or not to have the you want This episode, the podcast brought you by audible. Please go to audible, dot com forward, Slash Rogan or text Rogan to five hundred five hundred to get started double is offering listeners of our podcast free audio book with a thirty day. A trial membership. You can just go to audible,

dot com forward, Slash, Rogan and browse the unmatched selection of audio programs, download a title for free and start listing. It is that easy offer that free book I recommend sex at dawn from my good friend, Christopher Ryan, is an excellent book. Unless you talk to Brett, Weinstein jokes, but it's great book, I loved, I love sex the corporation by Tj English? He was one of the guests. It was on recently with Joey Diaz, another excellent book, the strange death of Europe by Douglas Murray. Another great book from a recent gassed and again audible offers an unmatched selection of audio books, audio recordings radio programs in virtually every single category imaginable. Plus your books are yours to keep with audible, you can go back and re listen anytime. Even if you cancel your membership, please go to our

dot com forward, Slash Rogan or text Rogan to five hundred five hundred to get started today and get a free audio book with your thirty day, trial membership Ta Da Da. We are also brought to you by Legalzoom Legalzoom. Ladies and gentlemen, attorneys are fucking, expensive, just talked to Donald Trump Right and Sean Hannity because they got this same guy, but that's neither here nor there attorneys are fucking expensive, likely to pay around three hundred dollars an hour. I bet that Michael Cohen Mother way more expensive than that, but the attorney for a regular folk like you or I it's like three hundred bucks an hour and just one reason why smart business owners turn to Legalzoom, for two million Americans have use Legalzoom to start their businesses with well season Corporation and more, including on it. My company, but even at after your business is set up. Legalzoom

can still help you out things like lease agreements. Changing tax laws and contract reviews are all apart running your own business, but these are precise, see the kinds of legal hurdles that take time and effort away from growing your business. That's why Legalzoom created their business legal plan with it. You get legal advice for your business from vetted independent attorneys and tax professionals available in every state. You also receive access to Nda's LISA Ets in more and the best part is you won't get charged by the hour. Legalzoom is in a law firm. Instead, you just pay one low upfront price check out legal business legal plan at Legalzoom dot com. Now, when you do that, you special savings when you enter Rogan at checkout Legalzoom, where life meets legal, Legalzoom dot com, and we're also brought to you last, but not certainly, not least, by the cash app. I fucking love the cash.

Because the cash app is the easiest way If you to send a receive money with friends- and and now you can even buy and sell Bitcoin instantly with the cash app if you've ever been curious about bit I know a lot of you most certainly have been it's like. What do I do with this? How do I start any, You can sign up and buy instantly within minutes with the cash app and you don't have to buy an entire bitcoin. You can buy as little as a dollar plus most bison cells happened seconds. You keep your funds right in the app or cash out directly to your bank. Account at any time could not be simpler and, of course, when you download the cash app, you use the promo code, Joe Rogan, one word: five dollars will go to you and five dollars go to our friend Justin Brands, fight for the forgotten charity, he's building wells for the pygmies in the Congo. If you're interested in that, please check out Justin's podcast that I've done with him. I've done several with him check out his charity. It is amazing- and I am super happy to announce that through the cash app we have already raised, one thousand

dollars to help build wells in the condo and several wells have already been dug, download the cash app for free. The app store or Google play. My guest today is a fellow that I reached out to. He is uh one of the owners and chefs at a restaurant called antler in Toronto and recently, his business was getting protested by animal rights activists and vegans or scream, at your murder and stuff like that, so he decided to carve up a deer leg in the front window of the restaurant. While these people are protesting and when he did that they went crazy and the video went viral and it's became massive news. The guy could not be core very, very nice guy and it's a it's a complex situation. The arg between vegans and animal rights activists in and hunters are mediators. Is such a volatile ideological battle

round and many people might think all this fucking subjects been beat to death by Joe Rogan. You might be right, but I really wanted to talk to this guy and I really enjoyed our conversation sweetheart of a guy he's fucking, canadian they're, all nice, and he also brought I those vegans aren't so nice him though, but he also brought me some maple syrup. So I love him he's my new friend and I enjoyed our conversation. So please welcome Michael Hunter The Joe Rogan experience trying my day, Joe Rogan podcast by night all day. Hello Michael welcome thanks man thanks, doing this. Thanks for coming in one hundred percent man, people don't know the story will give him the brief synopsis. I found out about your story online because there was this viral thing. Was going on about a chef who getting protested by a bunch of animal rights activists and vegans decided.

To camp out in front of your business and try to the restaurant called antler learn Toronto. Try to I don't know what the they were. Trying but you decided to butcher a leg of deer in front of them and it became this horrific thing like. How could you do that in a place that serves meat? How could you prove pair the meat right in front of them? How did this all started? How did it become such a crazy viral story and why really mad at you when there's a million other restaurants around you right, so it started in about December about clue number one, possibly canadian, crazy, Canadian. Besides being nice. That's why I went viral 'cause, I wasn't being nice. I wasn't the stereotypical Canadian,

Well, you weren't even being mean you're just doing your job and do, and I think so they started in December and they try to eat this right in front of our eyes. They they really got stuff with our. We have a little chalkboard sign out front I'll, give you a call. We have a forty five seat restaurants, over a small, have one business partner. Who is my best friend and family friend, and we had a little talk boy. Sign out front that said, venison is the new kale and get cute with our sign wheaties other restaurants around us, like we have fun with the sign and it's fun and the cyclist Vegan Road by and took huge offense too. Sign an all of a sudden one day. These protesters just showed up so originally I was just kind of frustrated because they're totally misguided because we take a lot of pride and where our food comes from, we have vegan, and to Terry and dishes on the menu, and I really respect that type of diet. So,

We were just totally floored with why this was happening and this going they started to come every week and they went from like two or three people being kind of peaceful to being like one thousand and fifteen people, not so peaceful, so it's when it turned so peaceful. They were shouting at our at our guests and shouting our door and really trying to harm our business? That I just kind of got fed up last resort went down, we get a whole deer a couple times a month and we butchered ourselves and I just said screw screw it I'm going to get these people to get out of here. So I thought that that would make them go away. How did you think that was going to make them go away, not escalate it I don't know I was. It was just totally like last resort totally fed up. I wanted to defend myself, defend our customers. You could see people walking in visibly upset.

You know they're being shouted at being screamed at called a murderer as there walking in for dinner, like you're going on a date. You want his time and people are screaming at you. You know just for eating, so I was just fed up and I just kind of thought, like you know, buzz off an. Why So just one sign with When is the new Kale one sign set this whole thing off, yeah and you're, so founded by restaurants. I mean, I know where you are so so we're surrounded by restaurants until there's an actual butcher shop across the street, and if you go in, there is like whole cattle hanging. That's ok, and their butcher shop you're a problem with your comparison to cal. You attack their sacred tale, God we are promoting meet. I don't know, that's really bizarre. Because you're promoting it, we were promoting. It are on the sign yeah. So I just didn't promote anything yeah and they were the cycle by and dream of broccoli without interference.

Yeah man. I have no idea if fully deserve. I'm sorry how many times did they protest? You, I think it's about eight now they're coming weekly. They still do. They still do. There's one this Friday, he's a very organized and they are they organize them. There's like Facebook groups, there is the the basic giving yes and ultimatum. We have to put there Logan in our window and they'll go away. Watt their slogan? There's like I can't remember it. You know word for word, but it's you know like killing animal is wrong. They have feelings. Do you To put that in your window. We don't we're not going to there's nowhere, but that's what they want. That's what they want. Eco terrorism. Extortion, whatever you wanna call it wow. Well, the part The part of this that drives me the most crazy, is the fact that e you are surrounded by restaurant, we're surrounded by restaurants, you're surrounded by, like you said, you're across street, from a butcher shop,

ninety. Seven percent of the people in the world eat meat that something something crazy. Like that mean I'm sure everyone hasn't really been pulled. I'm sure it's not that accurate. But it's somewhere between ninety five and ninety seven. It's big, it's big and I think we know we're an easy target. You know or not Who is antler? We were, I think, they're mad, because you know their thing. Is that we're promoting ethical farming? And there belief is there is no such thing as ethical farming that all meat is murder and if you look at murder in the dictionary that has to do with humans nothing to do with animals, and there is such a thing ethical farming and sustainable farming. An we work really hard to make sure that where we get our meat from is from the best possible place, we can and it's local. So it's so, according our local farmers that are, you know, within hours of our restaurant. Now, when you say, they started out nice like how many people were there in the beginning. Two hundred and thirty four

then they weren't they had signs and there were just kind of promoting message, but they weren't really yelling and screaming in what escalated, so we would the police, we we kind of got wind of it on their facebook groups, so we would call the police and have the police there to make sure everyone safe, because one thing like custom, they're scared. Our staff are scared, like no ones dealt with this before I've. Never yeah with this before so we, We have the police, you know they were. The police were amazing You know one time we can't. Ok, let's not call the police. Let's see what happens like. Maybe they'll just they'll go away, and so then, like a megaphone came out. Are the neighbors were coming down and getting in fights with them, and it was ugly. So we called the police to common Jesus Christ, the peace yeah, a megaphone part of the problem. With these kind of things it becomes a contest becomes a battle. You know trying to

see who's going to win and they are absolutely on a team. I mean that's one of the things that happens with veganism and I think it happens with hunters to excuse me people, I'm very tribal, you know it's us versus them and they want to win and then comes this thing where you know look The reality is, a lot of people are idiots and they I don't have a lot going on in their life, and so when something comes up where it becomes a primary focus of their life one restaurant is a logical that might be that becomes a battleground, and it's an ideological battleground for don't eat me ever versus sustainable farming. You know this I'm sure I know you're a hunter, I'm sure you feel a certain amount of remorse when an animal dies. One hundred percent and that's a big part of

put my beliefs in my philosophy and why I'm working on this cookbook right now is because I think that you know if you do eat meat, you should be able to kill an animal, an experience that- and I think that if people were to actually kill an animal, they would see you know goes into that and I don't think people would consume as much mean, and I don't think people would definitely I certainly wouldn't waste as much meat as they do. And it's- really upsetting, and I think it's totally misguided. You know why we were targeted. Well, I mean, like I said: I think it just becomes a game. Yeah it becomes the big tribal game. There's There's a real argument, a real argument that I support against factory farming, an factory farming, is the way most people are getting their meat in terms of like terms of like cheeseburgers and fast food and stuff. Along those lines I mean you're, not gay. Sing it from the most ethical sources. It's just. It's not finance

police to stay in a ball to do it. That way, everything would cost more money and that's a real problem that we as a society. It's not obviously not who are either set up the system, but that this system is a system that we find ourselves. Apart of it's a real problem, I've removed myself from for the most part, but occasionally I'm on the road and I'm hungry, and you know I'll eat some meat, that's just whatever totaly it's a necessary evil Reno, but in sort of sort of, but really necessary, not really necessary at all. To me about the wrong way to describe it. But it's how this is. Some been set up, and it's actually why I started hunting and doing what I do, because I watch these documentaries like Food INC and these things that kind of Sean a light on you know the system and how this stuff is actually being produced. Then it's horrible. It's it's terribly is yeah and I think that's the real number one problem and this v message to go after you know these types of farming. We support,

as well. We agree with so the fact that we were targeted for this was really really frustrating yeah. I think vegans. I understand where they're coming from, but I don't think that they have seen the big picture and the the picture is there. Some animals that need to be harvested they're, not sustainable, wild pigs is the best exam, simple. There is no way you are going to stop wild pigs without killing them. There's no way you're not going to give them birth control. Not going to unless you're going to let loose fucking packs of wolves- and I mean packs deal with like what's going on in Texas, I mean they're forced to shoot 'em out of helicopters, they hire Z, they hire people to come in. Helicopters and shooting from the sky. It's that bad, and this is farmers. There's companies called hella hunting.

Where does the raise it? They have it on the side like if they have a wild boar in a helicopter blade on their local rate. They have to do it yeah, I know, and I I don't. I don't have a lot of experience with that because we're I am, we don't have that wild boar problem, but I I hunt with these guys from from Mossy Oak and I've gone down there and done one of these pig hunts, They've shown me their fields an like one, slash three of their corn field is just destroy destroyed and they have to hunt him at night or they hung him with dogs and it's a huge problem for farmers trying to make a living. It is a huge problem and vegans themselves need to understand. That's your food supply not growing your own food, mostly most people listening to this that are vegan or not growing their own food you're, getting your own food from a farm. That farm is being attacked by pigs. That's only one animal another is deer, mean there's a shit load of deer in North America. What's interesting is California has a very weird way of handling it, an I kind of get it in some ways. The weird way that we

handle it in California. Is we don't hunt mountain lions? Ok, there's no mountain lion hunting! This is very few dear yeah I mean I see deer in my neighborhood. You know uh even a fairly rural area. Yeah, I see dear, you know couple times a week, but it's nothing like. If you go to the EAST coast, have you ever been in the EAST coast of California or uh? The United States like New York date? That's kinda. I've been in New York City, I have been in the in the the EAST Coast now, the state, if you go up state like New York, state there's so many fucking deer up there. It's one of the reasons why Lyme Disease is so horrible up there. It's comes from the ticks that were on the deer and people get these terrible terrible cases of Lyme Disease and it's fucking everywhere up there. Man, I have several friends that have really bad lined. Disease, would have to take go to Jim Miller's, Instagram, Jim Miller is a fighter in the UFC high level fighter, who's been competing at the highest level for a long time

time, and he has serious Lyme disease to the point where it's like debilitated, it's Kerry. Yes, it take a fat bag of pills and he held up his pills, the other day what he takes. Why is it look at that? This is what he text Wally's in training camp. That's insane! nineteen days of medications supplements he said he said Buckley me thirty one capsules a day. Do the math. Remember we carried A7, and it just says: Lyme Disease is one of the hashtags yeah he's got it really bad I mean: what's crazy, is the guy could not be healthier? Were without constantly eats right is not booze in his body is falling apart because of Fucking Lyme Disease and it's being carried by these these dear over population of wild animals is handled in one of two ways: either you introduce pray or you manage them with hunting. There's deers place in Mount in Maui, where

they are at Maui, has no predators, and but they also have a bunch of wild game that was brought in 4k Comea Maya. I think it was in the 1800s. They brought it in I'm not sure when, but there's tons of axis deer on Maui and on I an and on Molokai a couple different islands and one of things they've started doing is they were trying to figure out how to eradicate them from this area. So a bunch of hunters got together and their hunting these axis deer and then giving the meat to poor people like making it free for them. And it's a it's a really cool program, but that's another sort of situation where you kind of have to hunt yeah, there's no other unless you're just going to poison them or you're going to somehow are another capture. The mall in neuter and spay a certain amount of 'em every month. There's really no other way to handle it yeah. I think that's a big misconception like people

don't educate themselves about hunting there decide hunting is bad killing. Animals is bad and they get on this bandwagon, but they don't have enough information about it, and I think people confuse trophy hunting. You know with They see Cecil the lion and everyone goes after. Okay, it's hunting is the is the problem, but you know trophy hunt is the problem, but the hunters that that hunt for food and that hunt too you help the the sort of environmental impacts that they're having like people like snow. I don't know if you know much about it, but, like I read that article that you re tweet, it actually yeah, like a Nat GEO article that I posted these birds fly in flocks of like twenty three thousand birds and they land in a farmers field and they eat everything, everything they do, write an you know like ten, fifteen years ago these populations of birds they weren't like they are now now so well large scale AG which is also responsible for the boom in the population of deer right. You know, dear in America, particularly like in the Midwest, where uh

the farms are it's. What is it a coincidence that there's all the deer were all the farms are? No, it's not my good friend Doug during he has a big gas farm in Wisconsin beautiful place in the driftless area. Do you know that is not for the the glaciers didn't pass through so much it's not flat. There's all these hills and it's very beautiful lakes and phenomenal place, but Essentia Lee he's got the deer that he hunts in that that He and his friends hunt on his property, their farm animals. There you go, more urgent meeting greetings mean he grows. Corn, he's a farmer, so girls all this corn, the deer, eating all this corn and their fucking delay. This man, there are huge, so there's so good, but There's a reality to population control. Now in was Johnson. They get it

because they are around them every day, they're hitting him with their cars. They see them everywhere. They look. This is not like the id holistic view of someone who lives in a city street in Toronto and is driving around in their bike. Looking for signs that are criticizing Kale or whatever the fuck they're doing they're, not in the real nacha a world that these animals and they don't get it- they don't understand, you know they live in their bubble and- nothing they understand it hunters. Actually, we have to buy tags, we have to buy our licenses, there were rules and laws that we have to follow and those fees actually hey for the wildlife concert, and I am sure it's the same in the states as well from least talking to my friends- and it is, you know, a Pickman Roberts and that and they don't usually have an percent of all the the proceeds from hunting gear, go to wildlife conservation and that turns out to be billions and billions of dollars. It's worth far more than any other conservation group fall

far more than any wildlife conservation group or animal activist group. No one contributes more to conserve. Asian hunting. No one is we wanted. We wanted to be there for our kids and their kids, and it's it's nature. That's how the world is supposed to be. It's also, this contradictory thing. That seems it seems like it doesn't make sense, but we love the wildlife of the animals just because you eat them doesn't mean you don't love them, but you recognize them, as is a weird way to look at it, but is a renewable resource right and it is also a magical, beautiful thing. Just because of that doesn't mean you shouldn't eat it. I mean it's this. This disconnect that people have with the wild, I think, is a real part of it. A real part of the problem. Good luck, finding a vegan in Alaska no there's, not a whole lot of them that live out in the bush that are vegans salmon and they're eating, and you can bring in vegetables right, I'm sure there are some I'm just talking shit, but the real

because, if you're, if you're embedded in that world, you understand it and you appreciate it- it's very humbling been killing an animal is very humbling and it sounds like just someone what an animal lover that sounds: crazy, fucking hard. It's also really hard like. When I see a deer come out. I hunt with a with a bow crossbow, and I see a deer come out its I'm trend. Feeling I had the hair on my back is standing up there, these beautiful, majestic features and I'm going to kill it, and it's it's really really difficult, and I don't think that people understand that that hunting and haven't killed an animal. They don't understand the respect and the amount of effort that goes into that. No, they definitely don't, but they don't care I mean what they have an idea and the idea is animal should not die, but they're going to die. It's they're going to I have old age is going to die of starvation. They're, going to freeze to death there going to be eaten alive, going to be eaten alive and people think that animals they die peacefully in the wild. It's absolutely incorrect. If you google anything,

about how animals dying well and they're being eaten alive, like deer being taken down and eaten alive by wolves or coyotes or whatever it is. There's bears and it's a horrific Ann. To be shot with an arrow to be shot with a bullet. It's way more humane way to go. In my, in my opinion, it's unclear assembly a more humane way to go. I mean it's one of the reasons why you know I hunt and I practice so much. I practice everyday of one of the reasons why we got this building, so I could put a forty five yard indoor archery coach. I wanted you have to practice. Well, we could shoot afterwards, but you have to fuck in practice. You have to be to be able to make an ethical shot, but now, when I sit down and I cook something for my family. I know where that came from. If we vegetables, that we grew in our garden, there's a great satisfaction for serving up cucumbers or some some kale. Or whatever it is that we grew in our garden. It taste better when you go out there and you cut that cucumber off the plan and you cut that cal down. It is like half an hour old

You know what it is like. Nothing compares to that freshness that you go to the grocery store that maybe a couple days a week a month old. You have no idea no, For me, as a chef, that's why I love hunting and foraging and having a garden in my backyard, because when you go and pick something nothing tastes as good as that, right yeah I mean I, I appreciate where vegans and animal rights activists are coming from 'cause it's coming from. I think there's, a lot of distortion with really angry ones, but this is my take on a lot of this. Is you get a group of one hundred people? One of 'em for sure is a fucking idiot just out of sheer odds right like what are the odds, one of them, is it it's pretty strong right? Well, if you're going to A group of one hundred vegans you're, going to get at least one of 'em, that's fucking Idiot, and they are going to be some of the more violent. Some of them are so

progressive about, I mean there's a ton of 'em online that can go. Their identity is completely wrapped around veganism these vegan in their name. It's always I'm the vegan. This or the vegan that that is one hundred percent of their name, so uh huh some of their identity, so they can't they can't separate from it ever like. That is who they are forever and there's been some series problems. What was the name of that cafe gratitude? some people that were running a vegan restaurant because I think there were a couple of them right. You know what and Tom they're having health issues and is some people, the vegan diet, just doesn't agree with them, and maybe they were doing it wrong. Maybe they you have unique dietary needs, but they started raising cattle and they started eating those cattle and the fucking Vegans freaked how death threats all this crazy shit coming after them protesting an- and you know these people are terrified- they're, older folks, their you. You know elder elderly there. It is vegan restaurant

there's received death threats over animal slaughter scandal. Yeah I mean this is the bad ones right and it's not most of 'em most. Vegans, I think, are vegans for all the right reasons. You if you're misinformed, if you choose to not to not eat meat and and choose that kind of lifestyle like power. To do that, it's amazing and I think that it it. You know if, if, if it works for you in your body, that's great and for me It doesn't work for me like I've, done you can cleanse as I've done the juice cleanses I've I've done. You know I've gone out for as a chef to vegan restaurants and I'm not full. You know, I also eat three or four courses. I'll spend tons of money in half an hour later, I'm starving starving and and I just I need to eat something with protein and lots of protein and it's it's meat or fish, or you know, I'm not I've made to food from scratch from soybeans, and it's just it. Doesn't it's not the same yeah well, right now, people are screaming

you're doing it wrong. My vegan food is amazing. I love the most delicious, but I'm some of it is yeah. Some of it's good. I mean I, I eat vegan, all the time they deserve the restaurant near me. I go to all the time. Sometimes I get dirty looks oh this mother fuckers here. Why are you here? Why you here not allowed to eat or not? One of us are not allowed to eat our food. It's just it's very unfortunate that I think these ideological groups get tainted by the extreme members and I think that's true in the hunting side too, and you got guys like fucking TED Nuget. You know and all the people that I think that they distort the real sort of fascinating in mystical, qualities of wildlife and harvesting Wah life and being out there and experiencing nature. It said it's an almost psychedelic experience too

to hunt and being the while that sounds so counter intuitive to someone who's never experienced it, but the world of these animals, when you're away from your cell phone when you're away from you know, television and all the bullshit and the computer, when you're out out there in the wild. You were almost in another dimension if you're in complete silence in the forest, in you your mind goes into a completely different sort of mode that is familiar, but yet alien, it's familiar in a way that your body is like. Oh, this is hunting. This is what humans have done for HUN birds of thousands of years. This is why we became human is literally one of the reasons that scientists believe that our brains grew is because we started and we started cooking meat. The nutrition became more accessible and also we started thinking about how to hunt developing tools to hunt with

I mean. All of this is the reason why humans are humans today and I'm sure the vegan even against that would be well. That's then, and we're past that now we're not no we're not we're not because of controlling the population of animals were certainly not because of in the population of predators and that's another thing. People need to accept and understand, there's a reason why they eradicated all the wolves in North America before they re introduced him to Yellowstone and now they're thriving in many parts of the NW, so because they were fucking, killing everything and have any predators and the only predators that they have are humans, and if we don't keep, the population can check of them and of Grizzly bears of black bears and all the other predators they. Start eating each other, they start tearing each other apart. They start coming after us start encroaching on people were in their territory. We shouldn't be in their place. We humans in I'm on team people. I don't know what the fuck you're saying here. You know if you're saying that we should move out of San Francisco and give it to the wolves. You can go fuck yourself right, and this is literally what it boils down to, because you

I have to draw some line in the sand somewhere because, if so someone doesn't control the population of animals, then what's going to happen well, you can leave them to their own devices and they and sort of sorted out, but you know how they sorted out through disease and stuff. Vacation, I mean what happens, is There's too many animals and not food, so they get horrific diseases. That's where mange comes from. That's where a lot of like SIRI these diseases that infect wildlife come from. They come from the la, the food or overpopulation. That's how nature sorts it out. You know that Nature, sorted out with people to which is sneaky, we've use, vaccines and and where the televoting no way are, we will work hard to get there. We are- and I think we it comes with a certain responsibility and that responsibility is really we. We really doing a disservice to that responsibility with factory farming and that's the one of the main arguments for veganism, one of them main arguments, is the horrific treatment of those animals, whether it

veganism or or or whether it's rather factory forming or whether it's large scale dairy farms where they mistreat their cows or the chicken farms or all these different factory farms where they treat these animals not as a living being but as a commodity. Then it becomes a giant problem. But if you look at guys right. Do you know Jose? Alton is no Jill Saltans of very fascinating guy. He runs a farm, called polyface farms and what he is essentially done- is made lol large scale, animal agriculture possible in a humane and very na the way he has enormous electric fences that he uses for his pigs and he just moves them around moves the fences around the pigs wanderer. He is a huge rolling chicken coop. I mean it's fucking huge and he pushes that thing around. He moves into a new space. The chickens go

out, they wander around the block, they do that chicken thing and they go right back into the chicken house, and this is where it gets the eggs from this is how they raised Second, this is how they raise cattle that they do it with all these different animals and his perspective on all this is that if you, if you do it right, it's not her. If it's not an evil thing and these animals are living the way they're meant to live right now, that's. One of the things that we do at antler is to is to find those farmers and guys like that, one of the farms we get our they from their thousand acres. The deer roam as they please. They are eating nuts and apples and acorns grass and everything they're supposed to eat and then, when it's time they are collected and harvested and that that is where we get our meat from and we try really hard not to buy from the fact we don't serve chicken, beef or pork. We have bison pheasant duck because you know

these game farms. They don't have these massive large scale operations and I buy direct from the farmer and they can tell me what their diet is. You know they're good, they're bad, my sweet. We know all about these animals that were bring to the restaurant and we we're really proud of that. I have an issue with people that keep saying wild boar, why This is a wild boar when it's wild pig, so it was a male. It actually is a different breed, so the pigs that are in these fat, farms or even regular, regular, regular, there's, there's, there's there's many different breeds and a lot of them are hybrid, hybrid breeds. The the wild boar read has long black, hair and tusks that actually come out. So I can buy a whole pigs and they don't have those tasks and when I buy the wild boar breed, the meat is dark. Sure the hair is black, but we're getting. You know, there's no hair by the time we get them and they've got the tusks in the jar right. But my point is it: a bore is a male right. You definitely eating females to that's true,

yeah, so why they call it a wild boar is just a brief yeah. It's just a breed, but do you know but they're all the same breed did not know that they're all susk Rafa is the. I guess that genius is that what you say they're all sort of interchangeable right breed with each other? I do know. There's there's tons of different varieties like there's that Burke sire this Tamworth there's all these different kinds of chores breeding hogs is variations yeah, but they're all the same animal. What's crazy about wild pigs is if you took a domestic pick on you know like babe yeah. Let release babe out into the forest they more right with a very short amount of time. Just as now extends their hair becomes darker and thicker their tusks Lang fan interest in his very weird there. A weird animal pigs are a weird animal because, where it weird animal, when their domestic, their sweethearts, unless you fall in their cage when they're hungry and the fucking eat you, which is really crazy, it's one of the in ways that farmers die following the cages, but get eaten

happens all the time it does. Piquerism dial fuck up and fall into a pig pen in the pigs, just fuck him up, that's crazy especially if you're dealing with those really enormous pigs. I mean those pigs need a lot of food and their fucking big. Once they start chewing you that's your ass. This is just a side, Have you been pig hunting, yeah, yeah, yeah, big hunting? I shot a couple pigs. The meat is definitely different. It's a lot darker darker yeah! It's delicious, though, and where I do it, it's really interesting, is in California. A lot of the pigs were introduced by William Randolph Hearst that crazy household that ran. You know from the movie citizen Kane across from wells depiction of him here this crazy guy that ran Hearst publications in the nineteen thirties. He's really really one of the reasons why marijuana is illegal. William ran uh. First decided that when there was a cover

of believe is popular science magazine. That said, hemp is the new billion dollar crop an they were. They had to the machine called the D court. Cater more to DE corps to cater does is effectively processes, hemp, fiber, much more efficiently and for the longest time they use slaves to process hemp fiber. But then Eli Whitney came around with the cotton gin and they switched from hemp clothing to cotton. Cotton is easier to use with cotton gin, but is just an inferior cloth. Hemp makes better paper, hemp makes Both you can make houses with it. Henry Ford made the first fenders for the first model. T out of hemp mean helps a crazy thing, William Randolph Hearst. Read this article saw what was coming and realized that he was going to have to transition all of his paper. Mills and he owned forests that they would cut down the trees and make paper with They were after transition, those to help people were demanding Hamp, so instead he undercut the entire industry by saying that

There's a new drug that blacks in mexican for smoking and they were raping white women and he called this drug marijuana, which was real just the name of 'em. It was a mexican slang for wild tobacco, so we started any stories Congress. May it illegal didn't even a lot of people that were vote No, I didn't even know that they were making cannabis or like hemp, the text, dial in the commodity him they didn't know they were made. It illegal. They thought they were stopping a drug scourge that was forcing blacks and Mexicans to rape. White women is all William Rand. Hers is one crazy asshole with Hairy in slinger in the fuckin 1930s. That's why it became illegal. Well, this is game, crazy, asshole! Let a bunch of wild pigs loose on his property, so he can hunt them 'cause. He was a gentleman hunter

so, the exit I hot in California, when I go pick, hunting yeah, probably are direct descendants from the pigs that were let loose by this, and I think a lot of people don't understand is how fast the breed. You know my my for is in Mississippi, were telling me you know a pig can lay a litter three times a year four times a year up to one thousand and twelve piglets per litter and have no natural predators. So what are these farmers going to do and they start decimate? crops, yeah they're, not a native north american species, yeah, it's it's one of the most destructive invasive species and, if if you've never seen them before. You see them on tv. They look, you know it's. A pig pigs are cute. I've seen my friend is a pot belly pig, I pet it. That's that's great. What they are as adults when they're wild wars covered in mud and disease, their fucking, a mammal plague, their vicious, and they

they go through everything they will spread across the country. They'll destroy your garden, that's delete your dog I mean no bullshit, their fucking dangerous, yeah, crazy. Anna, a lot of farmers actually asked me if I'll come hunt on their property. The vineyards will ask me to come in and they have a problem with the turkeys that turkeys are eating all their grapes, no stuff, yeah that you know a lot of these a lot of regular kind of city people live in the city. They don't understand. Yeah turkey populations, some places are exploding too 'cause they realized. I would just go to the suburbs. Now even hunt us there's one running down the street in Toronto. Last week a turkey people were filming, it sending me that they are delicious too. That's actually the first bird. I haunted I didn't actually start hunting until I was in my 20s and I had grown up cooking. I was interested in becoming a chef and a family friend told me he was going Turkey hunting and I said well, what do you mean you're going Turkey hunting like I thought these. Where I didn't know there was such thing as well, Turkey. I thought there a domesticated bird like a chicken

so he takes me. Turkey hunting and I actually couldn't believe we. You know we shot a couple birds. You know we plucked now and then the skin was yellow and the meat is dark like like the chicken leg. Meat is like the breast like, dark and I just don't like. Wow like this is incredible and then, when I taste but I just couldn't believe that this is what Turkey was supposed to taste like yeah the blast flavor and you grow up. You know these. I grew up, but you know Christmas Thanksgiving these. These important holidays eating Turkey and you see it misses big white blob in its humongous yeah and you know, while birds leaner, it's not like super round. It's it's. It's lean, it's anti, how it's a supposed to be in then. For me, that was like the light bulb moment that this is what we're supposed to be eating. We're not supposed to be not shit, yeah that shit that that really white meat, Turkey look there's him. There is a Turkey torrado Toronto. ST I'm so thankful to be here because it's still snowing is r, L, instill, sorry, and I I love winter and snowboarding and going out

been enjoying the snow, but I'm done California baby come on down yeah man. I was talking to a buddy of mine from Montana on the phone. Yesterday it was fucking freezing cold up there six no everywhere and you know they're about to open up their bear season and he's like Jesus Christ. Snows everywhere and might do to my underwear right now outside I love it here, man, I have a soft spot for for California. I've been coming here since I was a little kid diverse, my dad in the summers- and I come here to three times a year, and I love it. I love it too. You know the Mount one thing is a weird thing of California, because I I see their point, what they, what they think is essentially done is in. This is one of the weird Things about California is like California is one of the This is that doesn't have of fish and Game Department really yeah. That's they don't call it that wildlife, okay, they don't call

don't think of it- is like you have to hunt them to call the game and fish. Okay, because there's more game in Arizona right in there are fish desert yeah, it's kind of interesting the way they've switched around, but I think the way California causes fish and wildlife see we we call the ministry of not resources damn that's a good way to look at it, but I can't argue with the effectiveness of their approach because do you do not find a lot of deer in California and deer hunters are extremely frustrated by that and I get it if you're like a low local guy, and you want to be able to hunt your own dear. It's hard going man, it's crazy. I actually didn't know there was hunting here. I had no idea an through if you're hanging out with that. With my friends and my c oak, I met this guy that lives actually in Orange County, same termite dowdy from field to play. If you don't, you know this guy he's a local, you know LA guy and he once all over California. I had no idea that there was so much hunting,

he's a really good friend of mine and I'm saying what what's a as I will theirs. Turkey there's well paying. There is the the the prong horn there's all kinds of stuff that this l can hunt yeah to date is Rocky Mountain Elk near the tone ranch, there's tule elk that are natural and the coasters there's a lot of different animals here, but others also Mama the mountain Lions, boo and they still kill him, but the way they kill him now is through government trackers. That mean it's really kind of crazy. What they do is mountain lion, starting people's dogs and cats, and you know they get. They get scared, and then people call one of the you know. I don't know who you would call that would take care of it, and hire people most of the time these dogs, these dogs, tree the amount and they shoot him and when they empty the contents, their stomachs when they do an autopsy on them, they find it filled with dogs and cats, which is really kind of crazy is not. There was one near might where my dad lives, a lady was attacked and they're running

girls running in the canyon and a mountain lion actually attacked one of them and she was like having a tug of war with. The mountain lion like with her friends. Some usually sore and about five or six years ago, when I was North County, someone was attacked, running purple, cycling or something like yeah and I had be had to. They went and found it and shot it, but it's when they get hungry wearing we're encroaching ring coaching on their land. No, it's just the land, it's not there as you fuck this. What's crazy about people were encroaching on their territory and no they're dead, and then Whatever was there that claimed that territory is dead and then there's a new one that comes along and they take. It is a fucking, constant battle. This idea that, like in their community, like they have against established gated community that we've entered, we start of houses and pissing off their neighbors. No, that's not what it is is just land and if you hate people- and you don't like cities well then go fucking live in the forest until then

off and stop saying like we're in crouching on there like. Do you go to the supermarket? Yes, do you buy your vegan food, a vegan delic? Well, that's a place where a deer could have lived. Okay. Do you go to the movie theater? You do while you piece of shit that used to be squirrels house, though the field at one point yeah, I mean large scale, agriculture. This is the other thing that kinda drives me crazy by vegans. It's not. I'm not saying you shouldn't eat grain, not saying you should I eat vegetables, but large scale. Agriculture in terms of just raising vegetables is responsible for a tremendous amount of death. First of all, there's the pesticides that they use to kill bugs now, if you only like mammals, and you don't mind the people kill bugs. That seems a little hypocritical to me. It's a little weird but does get weird and then there's the fact that when you're making these when you're using combine running through the gather, all the rabbits, all the bunnies. Every round hours are being decimate, decimated my good, he lives in Iowa, and you know he

pictures he's like look, we just chopped down, we just cut the field, look at all the vultures and the vault. It's just circling overhead and landing in the field right at they know when combine Kambin rules through they come in dinner time literally. No, it's like this place is in Alaska, especially on Kodiak Island, where rifle shots equal I've heard of this dinner bell. Bears, come running I've heard of this. This is crazy. Craig hunters are are are: are caring like big Magnum Forty five? Yes, like pistols to defend themselves against these grizzlies house, Send you a fantastic podcast that do you know Steve Ellis now, even Ella is really really interesting. Guy and he's a host of a tv show called mediator, he's just yes. Yes, so he's an author, he has a podcast that He recorded when they're in a fog neck island, which is like one of those chains of islands near Kodiak, so it has those

enormous coastal brown bears just like Kodiak and they got attacked. They got attacked when the they shot an elk and they were packing the Elk out and they got rushed by a tanker. The bear in it is a crazy podcast because they recorded it right after the fact. Whenever is everyone's freaking out still, and you know one guy had a pistol on it, but he set it down next to his pack and they had all these ideas of like what it would be like if an animal came in like if they got attacked, they had all these preconceived notions of what it would be like what it would feel like. It was like throw all the out the window. It was, you were in your brain save on a reptilian level. Brain is so terrified in this thing was so big friend: Jana said that he saw its teeth. Gnashing literally feet his head as it ran through the camera at the is just like. I got rushed by

get dear one time and I was losing it. I didn't know what to do it was. It was before sunrise. It was like you know. Five in the morning I'm walking into my dear set up and I had to cross this little river and it was like full of stones and stuff and I'm kind of walking up this river- and all I hear is I put it on put in Britain and I'm like whole like what the hell is that noise and then it's stopped and was pawing at the ground and snorting, and I was like holy shit. This is a buck and like I've, my I got goosebumps right now. About this- and this is my Bose in my bag and I'm just like I'm going to get taken down by this dear and then I think he thought it was another buck because it's you know it's in the right, it's running season for these dear and it then it's not that I was a human and it did that. I got blown it whistled sold that whistling blowing kind of sound and took off, but I thought I was fucked. I was like this then you Gore and I'm get gored by these antlers and that's it

he was not a better so yeah that was a camera. So I have those are big animals, they're big. We have big white tail and three hundred pounds, sometimes they're big and even our dozer huge, like we get a lot of DOTA eggs where I grew up in in Caledon, which is about an hour north of the city on a horse farm. We don't have a gun season, so that's how I got into archery and and hunting with a bow. That's interesting. Why is that? What I don't know? I think it's because it's it's, the farms are kind of close together sort of like you know it's not huge agriculture, they're, more kind of hobby farm, so I think they're a little closer together. They don't want let loose bullets let loose balls. I think that the main thing is rifles so deer season in Turkey season. You can use a shock on it's really stupid because you can, you can shoot coyotes to with with a rifle or shotgun, but there's no shotgun a rifle for deer, which is weird. That is weird, but that's why I got into archery.

And yeah I'm lucky because it's so close to the city, I can I can kind of go and hunt and then come back to work in the morning. Yeah the coyote things into sting, because it's very counter intuitive the more coyotes you kill, the more coyotes breed, the more Kyle populations increase. Coyotes are off hi there anything out there, but problem, at least in Calvin, where I'm from you know you were talking talking with mountain lions, that's kind of our version. I don't think there's any mountain lines where I live, but the author problem, they're, not in people's dogs and cats, yeah off the trip people we walking on their lease and are coming out no yeah. Now in their late happens out here I had one kill checking of mine two weeks ago: crazy yeah got a video of the dead fucking chicken in my chicken coop and then the here's. It's really dark. I dug a hole and bury the chicken. We don't need our chickens. We just use the eggs, eggs and they're like pets. I mean there's a video me from my instagram walking in my yard, holding my daughter's bunny and the chickens they're like

follow me around it. I wrote on the mother fucking Chicken whisperer, because it's a crazy video, because these chickens just follow me I mean they literally they're like pets. So when this chicken died, I was bummed out. It was a sweetheart of a check into, and this is a check that we used to. We would turn over rocks and she would come and get the worms, and so she would follow you around like come on sweetie. Here we go and it's really like a pet, but here it is here's a video of me walking like look at that's so cool. They just follow me around man. I know and a lot of farmers and and people little hobby farm to use chickens as insect control, yeah, they're vegetable garden, all they're great for that they're great for their. They will for fuck up some mice to men. You've never seen nothing like it. No you never seen. I did not know that this is how I found out about it. Well, one way I found not about it. A mouse got in the chicken coop and they fart that thing up, and I was like wow, that's crazy, but then another thing happened was my daughters found a hawk, my wife decided in

over in with women or was trying to like spruce things up, decided she's was going to change some these fences to a glass fence and the hawks didn't get the memo. And they suck as yet they Swan dive into this. This glass wall in when we first put up the fence, there was like three hawks that got fucked up and one of them died, and we found one of 'em. That was just KO din that blood coming out of its nose, like literally it was like a UFC fight. It was down and fucked up, so My daughters took this in and they put it in a large cardboard box and they had to figure out how to feed it because it was, I think it was on Saturday, and the wildlife rescue place was not open on the weekend, and so we had to bring it into a place on Monday. So over weekend we went to this pet store that we go to and they sell something called pinkies, it's a very cute term

for a nice day can't really see yet and they're separated from the mother in the feet and snakes, mostly reptiles it for him too. But these hawks would these panties up and so to try to give this a hawks, some food, while it was there over the weekend, so it didn't starve. My daughters brought on the pinkies, and there was one pinky left that the hawk didn't eat when we brought the hawk to the wildlife rescue place, so they fix up the hawk and they told us the hard ones they took care of it swing and it eventually they released it back in the wild. So it was a nice story, but there's this one pinky leftover and the thing was going to die. It wasn't with its mother. It was too small to drink milk and they were like. We want to keep it. We want to keep it as a pet, I'm like that doesn't make any sense. You just feeding its brothers and sisters. This fucking hawk and now you guys want to keep it. So I said: listen I think we should feed it. The skins and they're like no. I was like well what do you guys crazy, can't keep it's going to you understand that they said okay,

ok? Ok, I go well listen enough to watch I'll just go out and do it do not put that fucking thing down and I have never seen those chicken so voracious, attacked that mouse and then all chasing the one chicken that had the mouse try to steal from watch this. I will miss his to check in with the mouse right here that they get a mouse and they're they're that mouse Sup man. They try to steal it from each other. Then I can't make it tonight the one where a cat is playing with the mouse can't you see the one with the cat and the chicken Jamie. That's the best one, because the cat, everybody thinks of cats is being vicious. Cats are pretty vicious chickens, are fucking dinosaurs, man the way the chicken attacks the mouse like here is a look at that eight, a shell that mouse to get it she's gonna keep her eyes open. Six of those on a constant, come steal. Her mousy leader, later experts in bobbin even turn their heads, but so the

that is stalking the mouse and the things like bitch. You don't know what you're doing the chicken just runs in and snatches it right in front of the cat. The cats like fuck seriously, like my mouse, their way more ruthless mean birds are ruthless creatures and chickens in particular are just, I think, it's just a part of their natural diet like when a mouse would get look at this see the cat. The cats like wow, check out this mouse. I can't believe how lucky I am so he's like cats for cat half of it's a game to play with this chick hanging back, but as soon as the chicken finds it. Meanwhile, that mouse does not seem scared. That chat he's not scared. I bet that mouse has talk. So look at the chickens like fuck. You give me that that is crazy, crazy. I did not know that a chicken do Delphi,

but it's just create a do. It too is a fast too and they think of it as purely as food they're, nothing like the cat. It's it's sport for the cat, it's kind of fun, yeah, Katz, probably fully FED and the House cat. It's a house. This guy was just looking to kill. So that's neat nature, yeah people. I understand that they want. They want to remove themselves from it and that's great, but I don't want to understand it. They don't understand it. They want some thing that aligns with their ideology and their ideology is love and compassion, except for people that eat meat and then death death. Yep. I mean that's really what it is. It's it's an ideological battle in. In that sense, veganism becomes very much like a religion because you, like you, support all the people that are on your side and the people that are opposed. You are like apostates there like they like the negative people,

trying to bring you to the dark side to Hell. It gets. It gets really crazy and there's a lot of evidence on their side in terms of like factory farming, in the horrors factory, farming and even the really poor, modern american diet that they see the light people when they go vegan. What they're doing one of the best they're doing is they're, eliminating all the bullshit they're, eliminate ing, all the Trans fats and all the fucking terrible shit that a lot of people eat that isn't vegan, but the the thing is most most of them are eating diets that are far to carbohydrate, rich and, if they're not getting their blood check, they don't even know how unhealthy they are. They convince them. So those doing much better in a feeling. Much better, but a lack of cholesterol can with hormone functions. A lot of vegans have low Warman's. Because of that we are one of our regulars, and there was talk to me about about his experience. He used to have a organic vegetable farm,

he's a six foot. Seven big huge tall, dutch white Guy and he goes to me he says you know I was vegan for a long time. I had this organic vegetable farm and I thought that I was doing my body a service. He said I thought I was doing something great for my body and he got really sick and went to the doctor and the doctor said: listen man. You have to take supplements to supplement the the things you're not getting from from eating meat, or you have to go back to eating meat, because just people's bodies do better than others. He said. Asian cultures are more susceptible to to vegetable diets, but he's like in reality he's like you know: you're you're, your northern european. You know descent and you need to eat. You know this stuff to be healthy and that when he he went back to eating meat and it doesn't matter- you know what what trying to he was living on an organic vegetable farming. What what more healthy you know? Vegetables? Could he be eating so yeah b, twelve is a big one and b12 essentially only comes from things other than vegetables. You can get some of it from

well, you can get. I mean you definitely can get it from me. It's and the other thing is iron iron people say well, there's iron vegetables. There is, but it's not very bioavailable right, a lot of the very vitamins and even protein in vegetables, not very bio, available in most source and is how your body absorbs those nutrients as well like it might might be rich in that that that substance, but your body can't really absorb it. Well, it's just every these bodies. Different, I mean this. Just that is an absolute fact that there's some people that can eat certain diets and be very healthy and then other people, e them and they have a really hard time with them. But the other thing is but most of these people that are talking about our healthy and how great they feel there's a lot of it is sort of a placebo effect and they're. Not getting blood work done everyone, regardless of what your diet is. You should get blood work done just to find out if you have any poo tension, problems that are on the horizon, because there's a lot of times you'll feel okay and then you get

blood work done that the doctor tell him and you're really low in vitamin b and d and a- and you know you need this, and that- and you know this- is this- the health consequences of not having the stuff in your diet and if you are committed to a vegan diet, there's ways that you can supplement- and this is my advice to people if you want to supplement first of all, algae is a great one. You know like shit, but it's very good for your body and you just added to smoothies. You know just add with get milk or a bunch of other things, you can do it I mean we can eat a vegan diet and be healthy, but you got to be on the ball. You know and the the b twelve one is a big one. It said massive amounts. I was reading crazy article. The other day said something like ninety percent of all vegans are b12 deficient. I've heard this, I'm not an expert, but I've been renewable. It's terriblr, there's a guy named Chris Kresser that I've added my podcast but or who's a brilliant guy, who is his

expert in diet, nutrition, who started out as a macrobiotic vegan and had massive health problems and then switch to eating meet eventually and then really became a connoisseur of organ meat, which is like probably the most nutrient dense food in the world. I love I love. That's my favorite thing about hunting is the organ meat me two? I love liver, liver and the heart I I went hunting and I came back and I brought the hard into the restaurant for the guys that I want to. You know at them. Like the XP, eating like fresh killed, like the heart, was still warm when I brought it to work and uh, I like to do the charts are like this mix it up raw or cooked. Like a steak, so I cut it you know horizontally in into like a looks like a tenderloin steak. And we all got like this, like buzz like we just like I shot a double espresso, or something it was a sight whoa. And it's like it's so nutrient, rich, the organ meat

I had Alexander Gustafsson. The podcast yesterday is the UFC number. One lightweight can light heavyweight contender, big Viking Motherfuker, but he gets all of his meat from hunting for his training camps and everything like that. He hunts red deer in in Sweden's, where he lives, and we were both talk about how, when you eat really nutrient dense wild game, it gives you a stimulated effect, like your body is like you yeah. More of this, give me my for this. It's there's something in it yeah I don't know what any just tastes it tastes like it's supposed to taste, as you can't explain it. The flavor totally different, even when you know we're buying from these really cool game farms, it's different than the that I go and shoot and shoot, because you know that dear I I just shot could be like six, seven years old, verses of the farm. It's maybe one or two right, but again it's it's eating such a diverse diet. And it's you know my belief. Is that that's how we're supposed to be eating? Well, it's definitely

how we were eating for the longest time yeah, and it is entirely possible that if humans like say, if you got an isolated group of humans, that stuck to a very, very rigid, vegan diet for many many many generations, it's entirely possible that our genes would adapt to that diet and lifestyle. It's totally possible the reality of your current physical form is it's most likely not designed for that, and this is just based on jeans and on genetics and epigenetics, and all the various things that they've methods that they've devised try to study. What makes you a person and where where your ancestors came from, and how did? How did your ancestors developed did they eat mostly fish like there's, people that live like in

in the north West, like the extreme, like in Alaska and in you, it's in people, they're, they're, Bre, entire history, they've, evolved from eating fish and where all and whale blubber and seal and seal fat and there's real changes to who they are, as people like, first of all, one of the big ones is people that live up there, their hands don't get cold like ours, do their hands I've heard that when they ended in communities there was some programmer they're, trying to get them to stop hunting whales and stop killing seals and the government supplementing with them with with with beef and cattle and argument was. This is not what we're supposed to eat. This is not what we're designed to eat. You know we need the fat in the whale blubber to stay. Warm yeah. It's kind of weird, it's weird like why we be forcing these people to eat, something that you know is foreign to them, and it's it's it's not that the fact content and in beef is way different than Wayland ceiling.

It's like apples and oranges. Well, it's also you're looking at what we're talking about before, like white meat from Turkey, domestic turkey versus the the Turkey, that's a while turkey when you see cows, but you get these corn FED cows, give this pale meat. That meat is pale because it's not as good for you. It's it's more filled with fat which tastes good. But it's It's not as nutrient dense when you have a moose steak, you seen moose steak before a it's bleeding yeah, but it's almost like purple the dark dark. It's fucking dark man. That's that's way different! It's a way different thing: that cow is just some. It's like the fattest lay easiest person. You know like if you thought about like take an athlete like Lebron James who's. Just like this super athlete and compare like the composition of his body to some fucking slob, who

drink soda all day and his tired is anti depressants and anti biotics 'cause bodies, fucking deteriorating rapidly he's got arthritis in all of his joints. He's too fat at that. Literally is a cow. That's little play one of these fucking farm raised Overstuff corn FED cows, and they grind that fat, fuck into a hamburger. It's just not the same. I'm not you know, I'm not a C eating Lebron James. But I'm saying there's a difference in what the composition of their body. Is it's a different thing? It's a very different thing. Totally yeah I mean, I think, wild old things whether it's wild salmon or you know even wild vegetables, I think, would be probably better for you to that's. A big part of what I do is is, and that's why one of the reasons why I love nature so much as is forging- and I take my kids out to the woods and we go pick mushrooms and since they were like you know, babies my son's been dragged on the web, since he was one okay,

mushrooms out, so my favorite one to harvest where I live is more else yeah. The really funky looking to kind of like a brain or something something weird. I in my mind, I've never seen him. While there is nothing that tastes quite like them, that you can, you can buy it looks like a meet their very mean they're very median. This couple, different kinds is like black ones and kind of white or yellowish ones and they're just like itself. So passing to go into the wild and and pick your own food, and when you come home and cook it like nothing else. Tastes like that and like mushrooms from the store, the totally different and it's it's something really special that you can go and experience in the wild, yeah morels are a real weird one and I've been reading up on them. But one of these things is when there's fire forest fires yeah. How about like a necktie next season, they're like cleansing there, their cleansing earth? I don't I'm not in my call just so I don't know you know I just enjoy finding them and eating them, but I do know: there's a cleansing property to decaying to decaying

no matter so when trees fall down like the best play to find morales- is I look for trees with no bark on them, so they're they're, really super old. That's called a dead elm tree and they like the rotting roots, of these dead, ELM trees- and you know you're the Bush or in the field, and you kind of see this one tree that has no bark on it and it's about to fall over they'll, be like twenty morels at the base, they're they're kind of they're, feeding off the root system. That's underground yeah! I'm absolutely fascinated by must as I had Paul Stam it's on the podcast. He saw a sign that one, how great is Alka Supercool one of one? It's also I got to give me too much of this is my my gonna. Do it to case one breaks yeah? extra mushroom hat, but there's a really cool documentary. Actually called know your mushrooms, I think, by right, no by RON Man and he he travels along with these mushroom hunters. I think

a lot of it's in Oregon and up the coast of California down to Mexico, but their their professional forgers that then go and sell these mushrooms, but they tracked these foragers such a cool movie that's interesting, the says you, you better know mushrooms because of kill you. If you don't that, that's the thing man, it's like you know what my first experiencing foraging for mushrooms. I was like an apprentice chef at this restaurant and the chef comes in and was like, hey check these out and I was like whoa like what the hell are. These news, like other morels like I found them mountain biking and there's this take. You know like as a kid like your parents like don't don't eat those, don't touch. Those are poisonous to kill you and it's like okay. Well, then, you just you to have this idea with mushrooms come from the grocery store will take no, they grow up, they come in the wild and you know that's like my thing with me is I I teach my kids like meat doesn't come from the grocery store? It's not it's, not a styrofoam package. That's not! Where comes from it's an animal, and yeah, and it's just like you know much Who is the girl in the wild and they're just they're crazy? This like MIKE

so micro, Michael Risal, yeah, Michael Reiser relationship with the animals with the trees rather do you know the story of the Aminata Muscaria. You know what they are. I don't know the story. The Aminata Masskara is the most fascinating one to me, 'cause, that's the one that looks like looks like Santa Claus, the market, bread with washer yeah. That is the subject of a book, a guy named John Marco Allegro, who is one of the head scholars for deciphering the dead sea scrolls. He deciphered the dead sea scrolls for four teen years he was an ordained minister, but he was also in his study of theology became magna stick in the sorted when he started, realizing that there was all these different religion. Had similar stories and he was found All these different connections is trying trying to like figure out what the origins of all these stories were well after studying the dead sea, scrolls four think it was fourteen years before he wrote this book. He we decided that all

all of Christianity was a massive misunderstanding and what it was originally about, was the stories collection of stories that were about for holiday rituals and psycho. I like mushroom use, and he traced Word Jesus back to an ancient sumerian word that was mushroom covered in God, semen, and that when God would come on the earth, that's what rain was rain, was God coming on the earth and that the these mushrooms would rise up out of the ground. They would eat them and trip there fucking balls off right at the crazy story. So maybe you gotta think people that were foraging for food, especially back when there was no agriculture right I mean it was touch and go. You could easily starve to death, you mean you a bad winter. You know a drought, people starve to death. It was very, very common, so they would take foraging extremely serious and they knew what they could eat. They knew what they couldn't eat.

They knew that there was a relationship between carnivorous trees and coniferous. Trees would grow these weird. Looking shiny red and white mushrooms under him. That's what coniferous trees is pine trees, that's what we use for Christmas trees, those red and white, packages. They they are like the shiny packages underneath the Christmas tree. They are the color of Santa Claus. There are common in Siberia. There eaten constantly by karabo Cariboo are reindeer, reindeer are addicted to these to the point when people are having psychedelic mushroom rituals and they go outside to take a leak, the cow Carol will knock them over to get to the am Anita Musk area piss in the sand. 'cause they smell the amanita muscaria in the piss and one of the ways these guys trip their balls off as they eat the mushroom, and then they drink their own urine. They have a second, process of this. Here, it's even crazier,

the Times in Siberia, where it become extremely snowy. When this the shaman would visit the way they would get into the house is through the fucking chimney beak is the door would be snowed in so they would climb in through the chimney. I mean there's so many parallels to Santa Claus and to Christianity to this one mushroom that they think does a massive part of shamanistic rituals there. It is right there- and this is this rudolph- the Red Nose reindeer. Through the crazy websites, such a cool story I'll do that fucking crazy. So he wrote this book called the sacred mushroom and the cross that was bought out by the catholic church. This I have to verify but I do know that they stop production of it. I don't know if it was bought out by the catholic church. That's always been what's been told to me, but I do know that they production of it forever. He came out with another book called the dead sea scrolls in the christian myth, which is still available then,

more recently like really recently within the last decade, a guy name, Jan Irvin republished, the John Marco Allegro Books with permission from his family. I think it no actually been one of those things where Wanna book is over twenty five years old. It becomes like public domain or something like that too. But this book and this story behind it is incredibly fascinating and what he basically saying is that it makes sense if you were living thousands of years ago- and you stumbled upon these psychedelic mushrooms and you took them, you would experience God. You literally would think that psychedelic state was you communicating with God. They would want to hide those from the Romans, so they hid them in parables and stories and he means what the original meaning of all these parables and stories are because, of course, you're going from ancient, which is extremely complicated language. That also involves numbers. The letters are also numbers and then

it's translated to Latin and greek and then eventually to English. So a lot is lossed in that translation, so it really takes a linguist, a in a biblical scholar, to kind of understand whether or not this guy is saying, is correct. I'm obviously not one of those, so I'm just talking shit, but it's there's so any parallels. It's almost like how could it be just coincidental that Santa Claus is red and white at Santa Claus Legs reindeers, that the Chris history is something that we use in the presents are under the Christmas tree that Santa Claus lives in the fucking. Now pull which is Siberia, which is where Karabo live in, which is where these mushrooms are very common. I mean there's so many parallels. It's really kind of fucking crazy, that's cool yeah! It's a great book! I I really highly recommend it because it's one of those books We just got to read a few chapters you, so I think I may have to go back over that again go over yet so it's so freaky very cool, but I have some upon those in the wild. How many days I've never found those like you have to cook them. First,

The more I have to boil them. Yeah we made tea out of it, will make you sick. Apparently you do it right, but yeah. I I forged more for morels are my favorite. Natural is obviously like awesome, culinary mushroom, not yellow one that grows on trees. It's like a thick chicken of the woods. Yes, that one and it tastes like chicken. It is unbelievable that was amazing. It's really funky. We found I was walking with the kids in a park downtown Toronto, and I look over and there's this massive. It's on my instagram massive yellow kind of looks like goo growing on this tree, and it was a premature chicken of the woods and it just looked like this blob and then, if I were to leave, it would start to kind of Bellfountain like shelf kind mushrooms, and so I left it for like a week and went back and harvested, and it's like it's like tender juicy,

chicken flavor. It is bizarre, oh that's kind of cool, so you were just like hoping. Nobody else saw it yeah, and this thing is like a really public park and I was like man like I better get this before someone else finds it. How many people would know in a public park in Toronto. There's view. There's there's no fee for I've. I've kind of walked up to. Ladies, like picking herbs and stuff- and I was like hey like what do you do and they discuss. I looked at me and kind of went away that we want to share their knowledge with me here. It is not there. So that's this bizarre Mansfield zookeepers and I was like I was so popped I was so excited the face you make it here's another! You look like Crystalia there, but that would be like a little like delete. That's hilarious! Oh that's! So cool he's like a little tiny one below it grow on trees, I think that that you can see the bark is like like deteriorating. So again, it's it's. It's feeding off the decaying

while also look how bad assets. So, if that, if you actually go- and I found ones like that too, if you go in and and harvest those there really would be by that time- they're they're kind of a little too tough to tell really so you wanna, you want to get him when they're kind of younger, like that. So is there a color change? I I guess when they're older, they get a bit more orange from that kind of yellow premature. So you see that one where there's like, yellow yeah those are like perfect right. There perfect wow that looks almost like cauliflower totally yeah. It's really really neat wow, it's fascinating! You know. The mushroom world is super cool you know they breathe air. I did not know that they br there there breathe out carbon dioxide there closer to animals and there are of vegetables. That's really cool yeah they're, weird fungus is a weird thing, then yeah well a lot of it's like misunderstood. Well, I guess I was watching the podcast, with the mushroom guy, because I am a yeah shout out to go to Paul. But

like a lot of it is, is, is still being learned today of of of the impact on on the earth and when what they do did you hear story about? How would he take ten grams of Psilocybin must and climbed a tree in a Bing storm and like connected the universe? First time ever doing or yeah the first time ever doing yeah he did that. I think he was in high school right or something somewhere from very young yeah crazy, he's awesome such a trip, the and I was reading that, like the other, the Phil side been how is linked to cure, curing depression and things like that which- which I don't know a lot about, but it's fascinating. The effect they have on on on people. John Hopkins is in some studies, island, the most fascinating of all. The mushroom theories is by the late Great Terence Mckenna and his brother day text, Mckenna who's still alive in a scientist, it explained it on my first podcast with him. So if anybody is interested find that and download it, it's Dennis.

Brilliant guy, and this the theory It's called the stoned ape theory and this code insides were talking about about with hunting and consumption of meat looking to us becoming humans. There is a doubling of human brain size over a period of two million years. It's like apparently one of the biggest mysteries in the fossil record. They do not understand why something so important, like the thing that actually created the theory uh. I mean that of evolution, explained evolution like this very organ doubled over a period of two million years, and I don't know why Terrence believes that the reason coincided with climate change and but as the climate changed, these range forest receded into grasslands, and these lower hominids, like our ancestors, came down from the trees and started experimenting with new food sources and one of the things they experimented with

psychedelic mushrooms and that through Psilocybin, which they found by flipping over cow patties. A couple things happened: one it increased visual, acute mushrooms, especially in low doses, increase visual acuity, which would make them better hunters. They could see better made them more intuitive, made them more creative and also the way Dennis explains the effect of Psilocybin on the brain. He was saying that it could have possibly lead to the development of language and that all of this could have come out of the consumption of psychedelic mushrooms. It's fucking, intense of parents called it. The stoned ape theory, that's what that's how he thinks we became human. That's amazing yeah, it sounds open, sound stupid until you do mushrooms and then you go that makes sense, then you go ok, maybe yeah, maybe

yeah. Why is this illegal? Then you start going wet. Everybody should do this. Oh my god. Everybody should do this now when you first started cooking. How old are you when you became a chef? Well, it's kind of a fluke funny story. I was thirteen year old kid and I I wanted a part time job. You know like a newspaper route or something like that and I went to I lived in a little town on this horse farm country and I rode my bike down to this gas station and I applied to pump gas ass, and this guy at a diner on the corner and was like hey man like, I don't need anyone pump gas, but can you cook an? I grew up cook go home with my mom 'cause? She would work late and she would call me on her way home and tell me how to start dinner turn on the oven. Get the chicken out of Fred could the shake and bake- and you know she would walk me through it and I'd start dinner and she get home and and finish it. So I told hey: I: can you I'll or whatever, and he had me in there. You know like dropping the fry baskets and flipping eggs, and you know doing the brunch shift on the weekend.

And it just stuck it's one of those things that you just kind of grow up doing. I know I wanted money to buy skateboards and pot and stupid shit and yeah it just kind of stuck and then uh all through high school. I had a job cooking and I really started to struggle with it because you know I was taking all these world issues. Courses and learning about the Envir Renton watching these documentaries about food- and I didn't know how being a chef could help change the world and how am I going to make a difference as a chef? and then and then I had my daughter when I was nineteen- and I had all this experience cooking and I thought well. You know I was going, go to chef school and make it go with this, like I've got all this experience, I'm already this far ahead. And it was. It was having kids at such a young age. That really made me focus and was like. Okay, like I have a job to do, and I fell in love with food I you know a seventeen year old kid with a vegetable garden like who does that you know and then

I've got a hunting and foraging and learning about food. I just I totally just fell in love with it, and so how did antler come about? He brought it by about a bunch of these, so this photo. I actually took this photo. It's blown up in the restaurant. All the green on the ground is wild leeks. So in spring and I actually took this turkey hunting. I looked over. I was like well cool. That's amazing, and this is like a postcard. Yes postcard. This is actual a sketch my friend did of a of a deer skull that I shot. Antler came about because I work for a celebrity chef he gave me his cookbook and I was hunting and foraging doing all the stuff and I thought well, you know one of the ways I can make an impact on the world that I can teach people about what I'm doing and when I got a I got a camera and I would take it with me and shoot photos like this, and I wanted to teach people about hunting and foraging, because what I was doing. It's not new. It's really really old, but you know people seem to have forgotten about it.

Least people in the cities. Anyway, people don't really know much about it, so I thought you know I'm going to help educate. You know modern civilization about hunting and foraging, and I think this will be like my make a difference in the world and- I ended up hanging out with a really good friend of mine, one of my best friends today and he's a family friend documentary film maker by the name of Jody Shapiro and we had this deal, and you said you know I'll help you with the photos, if you teach me how to cook- and he was he was taking some culinary courses at the local college just as a hobby, and you know we start hanging out and shooting this cookbook and we started to kind of get some press about it. You know Eater magazine did this article on us and we started doing these game dinners out of his house and out of this really nice condo, and So I put on this game dinner right. We sold tickets and I knew there were laws about serving game.

Restaurants. So in canada- and I I pretty sure the US is pretty similar- you can't serve while game in a restaurant, so that is public health. Excuse me, I'm all meat has to be inspected to a slaughterhouse. Europe is different. You can kind of do whatever in Europe, but so I thought, okay, cool will have this game dinner out of his house and we're in the clear, but with the Mister natural sources. You can't sell game meat so for any kind of profit, but we weren't profiting off at we're just going to have fun anyway. Do This game dinner a local paper national paper actually wanted to buy a ticket. They came. We thought they're going to write this little blurb about it. They did a two page spread in the national newspaper about this game dinner. So we start to get all this press about it and uh we just said: hey: let's, let's open restaurant, let's, let's have a home where we can. We can work on this book, possibly shoot some documentary and really just have fun and explore canadian cuisine, something that I'm really passionate about something. That's it's really. You know how

hasn't, really been defined. There's a bunch of people trying to define it. You know and, and it was just sort of our home now when you say, can in cuisine. Are these traditional recipes or are they improvise? Well, I you know a lot of it is, is improvised thought of. As my take on it you know I I. I definitely want to some more kind of studying about native indigenous cooking. You know traveling across country is something I want to do and learning from the indigenous communities but sort of my take on it is you know if there were? If there wasn't these farms animals? What would be what we eat and and for me it's it's Morales. It's it's maple syrup, it's the wild leaks in this photo. It's deer and turkey rabbit and these things we, but we serve at antler because that's what's growing London, Canada, wild fish and thanks again, and for the maple syrup, I'm going to have to break my diet to enjoy some of this, but that is liquid. Ias looking rich look liquid gold aluminum

so I'll. Tell you earlier that takes a eighteen leaders of sap boil down to make one leader while of syrup and the cool part. Is you can drink the sap it's natural, it's full of a lot natural like to like to minerals, so it's kind of like coconut water type of beverage. What's crazy to me how someone figured out to do that like and they've been doing it for one hundred years right, yeah super cool and it happens only you can only make it in the spring when it's freezing at night and it thaws during the day and what happens is the tree roots are suck? me up as much water as it can to feed the buds that it's trying to make to make leaves again how the fuck did. How do you figure that out? No idea how to figure out how to take the take this sap from the trees like that. So simple, it's really really cool. When you, you know you drill a hole in the tree, you put in this little tap and hang a bucket and it just drips out and wow. And how long does it take to drip when it's when it's like kind of perfect conditions, I put up the sixteen

your buckets and within like three or four days there, full oh wow, so it's cool, it's fun and it gets me out in the woods. I called spring training, some lugging around these buckets. You know: okay, yeah right, so that's all in the winter fat off some. When you talk about indigenous people how they would cook their food? Have you learned any of those dishes yet I have like, I said, I'm not an expert, but it's something. I'm we're going to be kind studying movie for forward. You know the growth of antler, you know where do we go from here? and you know, as I mentioned, my business partner is a documentary guy, so we want to travel and travel across country and learn really what that is there's so many different indigenous communities in Canada, like Canada's on three coasts. You know much like the states with Alaska. You normally think of the Arctic up there, You know, there's three hours, you have an ocean up top So is not ocean to walk across it. It's frozen, but Jesus.

Yeah. It's something that I definitely want to learn more about like how would they cook moose? Do you know I'm a a a a lot of it will be opened fire in a lot of its rock. You know, like the the seal mean well blubber. You know they don't like in the Arctic. They don't have a lot of wood to burn you know and they would have like oil lamps from the oil from the blubber. But you know, a lot of the cooking is raw. Yeah, Steve Rinella went to Nunivak so, like I said, even if food is out of this, I think there there there there there is the NW territories and his new boot and they eating a lot of fish frozen fish that was dipped in seal oil, crazy, dip- the fish and seal oil and eat it. They have tremendous amount of oil and fat in their diet. Yeah. You know, which kind of makes sense, right. Yeah, it was super Kita. I mean there there up there in the coldest of cold climates one of the things we do, this kind of cool is

I know the native indigenous, what would make see and it's it's full of but see and minerals and nutrients. But we we do a cedar sorbet, so we oil cedar leaves, and then I just added sugar and make it into like an ice. So the frozen kind of survey wow, which is really cool, and it's it's like when you eat it. It's like the force in your mouth, throw and then, when you get to cedar from we did we just go into the woods and cut down no she's straight out into a restaurant, there's all kinds of cool stuff that we do that we you know because I we go up. I try to be in nature a couple times a week and then I'll go and forwards for all this stuff, antler another way we use the cedar is in a cocktail. We do a cedar gin sour, so refuse refuse the gin with with cedar, leaves for like a week and then we shake that with some simple syrup and you can make me hungry when you it's interesting that when you go to the woods to forage for plant life, it's totally

legal, you could sell it, but if you forge for animal life, you can't do that. I think that is because of market hunting that really decimated most of the population of north american game animals in the 1800s and early into 1900s like most people associate that with the death of the Buffalo, the makes sense, and I think I think if there there are ways to do it where it could be controlled. I don't think I could hunt enough meat for the for the restaurant, but twenty five it's forty five seats, but you know what I do think. I do think that you know I think it's people's right, to be able to eat wild meat. I think that, as a human being, you have the right to try that and if you're not a hunter, if you don't know how to go, do it, you have the right to at least try it, and I do know in actually newfound land. There they're allowed to serve well game and the hunter has to go and get a permit to sell and then

He has to bring it to a butcher that has a permit to process it and expect it, and then that butcher can then sell it to a restaurant. Oh well, that makes sense. Yeah and it's controlled, and I don't want to decimate the population. I don't want to hurt any Newfoundland. Newfoundland think it's definitely think my call new found in this like a call in Chicago she K go to get pissed at you or something like that. Looking fake, Canadian Ivan and from there yeah, I don't want market hunting of wild game and it's because I love wild animals and how present again, how do you love an animal? You love it yeah. Well, I just think it's very complex, that's what I think I think just staying alive being a human is very complex and I think we have very simplistic ways of looking at it. I also think that it's entirely possible that plants are communicating with each other, and they have a level of intelligence that we don't totally understand and that's supported by data that support

to buy more and more research every day, they're finding out that plants have some interconnected network of communication with each other and that they recognize when they're being eaten and they changed their your profile to make themselves taste terrible to animals that are eating 'em, there's some communication between them and there is some sort of a primitive life form that many are. You are far more complex than things that vegans won't eat, like molluscs like mollusks, all the other week of them as animals. There this simplest, dumbass fucking things on earth voiced in article that questioning whether mollusks were vegan. I thought was good funny. They should be, I think, for health purposes, people that are vegans amen. If they're they're sustainable, I mean you can farm them, you could they have a seven property to I've. I've yeah, something that they were using muscles to clean up ocean beaches, gas filter, the adder and fast and must

there's two apparently are very cleansing: they're trying to find ways to use mushrooms to clean kind of oil spills and really screwed up environmental things. People should eat Mollis, there really should and they should also eat eggs, eat eggs, folks to see him from ethical animals, and I'm just saying this: just as a person of values, health and a person who's, I mean I put my body through a lot. My body has to have perform and it has my whole life. So I'm very very concerned with nutrition and I'm very aware of the impact nutrition has on physical performance and I think eggs are gigantic. There's, so god damn good for your health and this idea that somehow another you're doing something cruel. My chickens are my friends, you

see it from that. Video that improvement in the pudding, not scared me at all that running around with their running around with me and I eat their eggs and those eggs are good for it. I know everybody can't do that, but you can get these colored eggs and you vote with your dollars that you're spending. You know if you go to the store and you buy organic eggs and you buy the healthier version. Yes, you're paying extra bucks or two dollars or whatever it is, but crack open egg from like the mass produce place and you crack open an egg from the organic place. One is like the organic ones are like my orange and like super dark and even the yolk is like really thick. And then the other one. It's like pale and running like, yellow and you crack open the yolks break, sometimes and they're, just like it's garbage and who knows what's in them and what conditions those chickens are living in a lot of times, terrible conditions I think Whoever started off. I mean, I guess it's just economics right. You give people the option to make the most amount of money and not have to account for ethics or cruelty,

hundreds or whatever. You know, whatever issues, in place that allowed factory farms to materialize. That's one of the worst worst pieces of evidence about the cruelty of human beings. So one of the worst, it's horrific I mean, and it's it's something that I think we should really collectively do something about, and I think it's one of the things that really ramps up the anger on the side of the animal rights activist in the side of the vegans. I get it, I get it but to go after someone like you is, in my opinion, so incredibly misguided, and that's why I asked you to come on, so I thought it was so frustrating and watching you carve that Venice up in front of those people. What were they screaming at you murderer

murder! That's not true! That's like saying, let's just like saying, you're a thief because you cut grass like it's. No, it's not it's not murder. It's killing animals, even even the video someone's walking by and they're, like they're saying their murderers and she's like there murdering people now I know there murdering animals the kind of laugh. A lot of those people are sad, like a lot of like what you're dealing with with these animal rights activists that they are so engrossed in this struggle and it's the part of their daily existence in there angry and sad there's one crazy video where this lady goes into this restaurant and she starts yelling in front of everybody about her friend and this beautiful creature that just wants to live, and it's a chicken she's talking about chicken and, like my friend, chicken was killed. It's like what and everybody in the restaurant, like what the fuck I've seen these videos and they'll say:

storm arrested so be like fifty people. They gonna occupies stay Co. There's this crazy, Lady God mega. She was very abuse, her entire life. She was wherever she goes because this is, she was locked away. She was nobody there for her. She was crying. She was scared every single moment, looking the Maitre D' Micron, the background yeah, my girlfriend the background so I was going to murder her. I can see you laughing but to her this I can see you smiling at least at least I'm not busy yeah, that's true,

there is a restaurant way of taking keep it going. Just like her sisters. Where is the chicken part? It comes soon girls, but everyone who he left behind this wanted to live to. Where is this crazy in town and right now their eggs and disrupt speciesism? Oh something mice her name is snow. Somebody else is eggs or somebody. Oh eggs, name name in snow. She look beautiful, she's, a mouse murder. It's not food sing, it together

I'll get together with science. God look at this boo. Stockx short, you see the way, your cunt little birds, no fucks up a worm. You crazy, bitch fuck, but mice, throat mouse in the cage, no snow, only grain. So it's like fuck you that guys funny this guys, amazing. So yeah, there's like get that there's there's protesting and like it's our fundamental right to protest and have speech and have these things. But that's not trusting, says this. Writing a business yeah there's! No, it's not the place for it. That's harassment! Look if you the best place for something like that is really what we just saw. A video make make a video about your thoughts. Yeah. You know I'm! If you mean if you, they honestly think that what you're doing is wrong like this is what something like Youtube is for.

Take a video where you state your case or come and talk to me and all that even come talk to me when I started my restaurant with science, but at least with the video you the comments, open and then people debate, they decide whether or not they agree or disagree or you fucking crazy asshole. Let that's no loose watch what she does watch what she does to every fucking bug she finds she's a murderer: she's, not vegetarian! You fucking chicken, not a vegetarian! Oh it's! Just not! You know people like Vegetarian FED. Well, then you got a sick chicken 'cause, that's not what they're supposed to eat them. Like cats, cats need meat. You can feed a cat, a vegan diet. You can see one of my big. I have a bit about it really hilarious, because of something that I found online when someone is angry at me and someone great. I went to her page one of the things that hashtag vegan cat I want to Jesus, and I went down over that was illegal

I should animal rights begin. What common should danger cat we'll talk about that later? I want to do my bit and two in a comedy special soon, but the the the problem with this is that, as we said before, it becomes like a contest and it becomes like a like a battleground yeah. That's my concerns like how does this end here how to bridge the gap? How do we people like how they stop with you? I have no idea that well they're they're saying is they want us to put a sign in or yeah that's just plain that you know we're mistreating animals and animal lives or their right, and they say if you know this extortion, for put this sign in our window, they're going to go away. Well, we're not Anything wrong. You know nothing. We're doing is illegal were not infringe on anyone's rights. Have you talked to not at all, have you gone outside, so no, we had one of our managers go outside and there they just screamed at. Are they with the screens at the time? I think this murderer. What about

no yeah? What about a little girl? So you know we. We did send an email trying to invite in the forging with us and we talked about our different ideologues ideologies and how you know they're they're really far apart, but maybe we can come to some kind of understanding and- and you know at the at the time the didn't respond, respond for awhile and you know now I don't. I don't think you know. I don't think that anything good would come of that meeting at this. So so what are you do? How's business? By the way and good for us? We were very lucky. It sounds like you have a great restaurant. I mean I'm sure. Thank you part of it. Thank you, but we've had some international recognition. We've I've done it, I'm a traveling last year in five continents in the last year, two of them cooking. I went to Abu Dhabi with there's a company called img. If you know them, they only have see now they run, they have a culinary department and they they run these festivals called taste

in our first year. Opening we were part of this taste festival and I didn't even know there was a cop. In addition, going on these people came by and they're like oh we're, judging this competition and we want to buy your food- and I was like I think these p, we're trying to some free food. Out of me, there were like you can win a trip to Abu Dhabi, and I was like ok, whatever and we actually won an they sent me to Abu Dhabi to to compete against eleven other chefs from around the world. It was amazing, was incredible and then from there I, I think, sixty six or eight months later, there's a festival in Australia. So they brought me to Australia to cook in western Where this event called the gourmet escape, really really cool. Event and it was down the road from a deer farm and we were putting on a lunch and dinner for two hundred people, so we actually roasted to hold dear asado style over open fire, and where did you do that right in the woods?

It is incredible how those photos on our minds- grammar in the antler kitchen Bardot at antler Kitchen bar on Instagram, there's photos of this. This US auto well super super. So what does that mean? Saddam Asado is, I think it's the argentinian cooking style and it's it's a whole, our animal. That's us kind of split down the middle and the kind of like flavor across yeah there wow, it's really cool, so pig is probably the best one to do it with 'cause of the fat con dear and lamb and stuff, like that, you kind of have to baste it to keep it moist. How do you regulate temperature when it comes to something like this? Just this styling up the wood stacking up, the wooden kind of how far leaning on how do you know how to do it and just practice just playing around having fun it. Just low and slow have you done this before many times, so we do it at the restaurant. I do it in my backyard, a lot I actually did for my wedding. We did two pigs from my wedding doing like poking the fire in my suit. That's so graphic,

it's great yeah that got a lot of hate, their wonder hate on that. But it's but you know what I like: people want to disconnect themselves from where it's coming from, but he went back to your question. You know business is always been and business is business, those good days and bad days. You know right now, there's a lot of attention on a lot of media attention on antler, so You know we're a little bit busier than normal right now get ready this podcast, it's gonna get crazy, it's going to be, that's down there. There's gonna be a bunch of people on your side too yeah and helpful. Hopefully, nothing bad happens like people don't get anything physical or starts shouting at each other yeah, but that that the shouting stuff was happening but but yeah. Hopefully you know this. This will kind of smooth out and people can learn to to get it to get along. We live together, yeah. Well, it doesn't seem like that's what they want, though it seems that what they want is for you to bend to their demands mean that's like what a lot of this is when it comes to change. You know when it comes to people wanting change, they want you to change and they want their right.

And they want you to admit your wrong, and this is a real problem problem with something that's complex, yeah and the funny thing was like: we've had vegan and vegetarian items on our menu since two thousand and fifteen when we opened- and so I think it is like the second or third week they came, and we thought ok we're going to feature one of our vegan dishes on the sign and hopefully like that, make them happy and so we feature one of you can. This is on the sign, and then we saw from their online posts that that they thought that what we made that their posts, where we made them change a meat dish to a vegan dish. We have to keep pushing them and was so frustrating like. No, you guys don't know who we are well, that's exactly what I'm talking about. It becomes a contest battleground and ideological, battleground that this thought that they're making you change. They want you to change each. You know I mean I I've seen. I saw a video once our people are mad at me too, and they were like he's listening, so he's open to change, and it's like looking.

No I'm listening, because I want to hear your perspective like you're, not right like and I'm not right. It's like. We have our own perspectives and I'm not going to change If I change it's because of the evidence, and because of thinking and careful consideration and I've done, that I've done a lot of thinking. I've done a lot of careful, careful consideration and that's what led need to becoming a hunter in the first place. What how did you start? Hunting Steven Lai? I've been thinking about it for a long time and the main reason I've been thinking about. It was because of those Peter videos, those fucking, horrific factory farming, videos, I don't want to eat that. I don't want to be a part of this. I want to figure out how to not so I started buying grass fed me need, and I tried to figure out a way to get around it, and I really started and very very interested in hunting, but I didn't know how to start. I didn't know where to start and we were filming a fear factor episode at to hone ranch, says two hundred and seventy thousand acre ranch

in the middle of the country middle the state rather, and they were saying that they have wild pigs there and they would teach a half moon, and so it was something that I'd considered yeah for I met Revela, yeah and when I'm at Renault, he took me on a hunt for his tv show and I shot a mule deer and we ate it that night over the fire- and I said: that's it- it's only a hunter yeah MIKE. That's it Michael. The Cooper grunting is nothing goes to waste, so I take. I take the hides to a guy to have a tan. So. I actually made a knife roll out of one of the highlights of an apron out of one of the highlights. My wedding ring has antler in it yeah it's pretty cool, I'm proud of that one. That's crazy and yeah, and I use all the bones to make a stock and then, when I, you know a lot of the cuts and one of the reasons- and I want to write this book- is to teach hunters how to use those tough cuts. One of my favorite parts of of the deer and different animals is the neck and the neck have this really super flavorful kind of gelatinous meat kind of in between the cartilage and stuff like that, and you make a stew

stuff and it is unbelievably tasty, and so I think in a lot of guys when they go hunting, they kind of breast out the birds and they leave the little legs, and they don't really know that. You know how to cook the legs of a turkey or a duck, that's one of the reasons why I want to write this book and really educate people how to use those tougher cuts that you know can be kind of tricky to cook, but Nella has a couple of good books on that, and one of things that he's really into making shanks and we'll go out some guys, yeah and he's also a big advocate of not wasting anything, that's wise into organ meat, lovers, liver and we had a fire that night so good. I had a turkey feathers in my little near my wedding day from you yeah I was neither is really cool. Well it it's one of the reasons why it's so kind of crazy that you're, the guy that they picked on and not the butcher shop across the street or not. You know some burger joint down the street. That's

Ng Factory farmed meat is young. You do have a respect and appreciation for the wildlife, but that this ideological, Graham Battleground on their side. It doesn't leave any room for giving in is no room for reasons you're, either an animal murderer or a year or the the most amazing person ever because you're vegan go vegan. You know it's it's it's a really! It's a new thing in terms of first world problems at First world countries, me people be needing vegetarian, his forever. But in terms of like being ideologically rabid about your, you know your position, this is very new. It's within the last couple of decades yeah it's unfortunate because we're getting you know: we've had a lot of support from our community in Canada, the international community and actually getting support other vegans and vegetarians people writing to us and saying yeah the same like hey. These aren't our beliefs. We really sorry what you're going through you. You have our support and it's some of our custom,

actually vegan actually vegan, and they come for, like vegetarian risotto and like mushroom risotto that they know or like really cool wild mushrooms that you can't buy in the store. So it's you know it. Unfortunately, it is kind of it's kind of sad, but you know we're just going to continue, you know being who we are, and hopefully that you know like none of them have actually come in for dinner. You know course they're not going to carbon up in the front window. Man I can so there's your right in the middle of this right now, which is kind of interesting to talk to us about this, is not like. After the fact, it's all going down right now going on their you know their comeback weekly. But at this point it's like dinner and a show like people want to see it. Requesting the window window table on. Well guess what fans this cast! They're gonna want a front row seat. It's going to be. These are a lot of freaks out there listening to us that we can and want to be there for the freak show what's wrong.

It's a it's only about an hour and a half drive from from Buffalo at the border. So it's make it across the fox yeah. Take a flight come if you're, a dick, the cold. Is there anything else, you'd like to tell people what what is your website? How can people go and check it out? Yeah, so in the kitchen bar dot com is, is, is the website there? It is not that scroll down Jimmy. You see a look at some of that yummy murder, so that dear, You put a skull on the table with all that sort of that that platter, that she could reporters all the meat from that. Dear. Why and and the terrine on the side, a little square piece was actually meet from that skull, so I raise that skull turn the meat into returning from the tongue in the cheek and then served that was access, game dinner that the newspaper did. When are you heading back to Toronto Friday? Some here was dealing with family and then I'm Jeff, do you have access to a freezer? Yes, I have uh two commercial freezers in the going to give you some Elko do. That is amazing. Thank you from that AL. Thank you. So much

it's an honor man cooking with my dad this week. Please do take. Thank you. Pictures and I'll put it up on this ground how to present also to full. I love it, love it alright, so yeah! The kitchen and the kitchen bar dot com at the hunter stuff at in kitchen bar all that counts and what is your instagram mice, Graham, is at the hunter chef at the on the shelf. Okay, thanks man as well. Fine! I really hope this all works out all that yeah angry vegans, please just I know where you're coming from, but you really. This is the wrong fight. It's really is there's the battle. Is factory farming? That's the real battleground in this is the wrong. This is like the most ethical version of what your opposing and, I think, there's a there's, a healthy, comfortable middle ground for the ninety nine percent that aren't fucking idiots. I really do and I hope we can find it. Thank you. Alright, fuckers be nice to each other by.

Thank you, you, mother and father fuckers, and whatever you doing, I don't know what you're doing. Thanks to our sponsor thanks to higher primate go to higher primate com. That's my t. Shirt company check that shit out Fanny packs mugs, Jerry Mugs. We got lot of there there you also to the cash app you could download the cash app free on the app store or Google play use a promo Joe Rogan. One word you will get five dollars and five dollars would go to Justin rents, fight for the forgotten charity, to build wells pygmies in the Congo. It is a legit amazing charity. Thank you also, to leave, go to Legalzoom dot com, get that Legalzoom legal business, legal plan, Legalzoom Business legal plan, he's. What can I say that legal business legal plan, Legalzoom Business, legal that leaves little legal zooms business. We'll plan, Legalzoom, dot com now and get special,

things when you enter Rogan at checkout. This life meets legal, Legalzoom, dot com. It's seriously an awesome resources how we started on it started on it with Legalzoom and thank you also to audible, go to audible, dot com forward, Rogan, get your free, audiobook and a thirty day. Trial membership so go to auto dot com forward, Slash Rogan or you can text my last name: a g, a n two, five hundred five hundred to get started today get a free audio book with a thirty day, trial membership, audible, dot com forward, Slash Rogan Tada, that's it for today. Thank you all for tuning and appreciate you and I hope you enjoy the show, take care bye.