Robert Schoch is an associate professor of Natural Sciences at the College of General Studies, Boston University. He has been best known as a proponent of the Sphinx water erosion hypothesis. Check out links to more of his work at http://robertschoch.com
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Hello, ladies and gentlemen, how's life, this episode, the podcast is, did you buy the cash app? If you haven't heard the cash app is the number one ranked app in finance and it lets you do the most with your money. It's a sweet app. You can pay people back, you can buy and sell Bitcoin with it. You can deposit your paycheck right into the app custom cash card, and anywhere you like, and now the cash card is even more powerful than ever with the cash apps. Latest feature, which is cash boost and Where cash boost works. The program unless you get instant discounts every time you swipe your card right now you can get a dollar off every purchase. You make at coffee shops across the country when you pay with your cash card and it doesn't stop there can get discounts like fifteen percent off chipotle, fifteen percent, off Shake shack and more and they're rolling out new boots for the cash card constantly so follow cash app on
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save money. Wrapping up your last will or living trust before you go on a summer vacation Legalzoom is not a law firm, but don't worry if legal questions are holding you up. Their network of in one hundred attorneys can provide advice for your business. Your state plan and more accomplish the things that you know: to get done and save ten percent with Legalzoom's friends and family discount right now. Just use the reward code Rogan in the promo box at checkout for a limited time. That's promo code, Rogan, just Rogan to save ten percent. Now at Legalzoom dot com Legalzoom, where life meets legal. My guest today, I'm very, very excited about this man. Robert shock from Boston University probably have heard me talk about him many many times before he is the G colleges that stuck his neck out in the dating of the sphinx. This was a fat knitting podcast. For me, I was
glued and riveted an he talked about a lot of stuff that I was not aware of that. I think will blow your mind. Please give it up for the great and powerful Doctor Robert Shaw, the Joe Rogan experience, trying my day, Joe Rogan podcast by night all day, Mister shock. First of all, thank you very, very, very much for being here. I've been following your work for a long time now and I'm very appreciative of you and very appreciative of everything. You've done and I've been fascinated by the subject of ancient Egypt. So I really I'm really exact, very sad thank you it's a real pleasure to be here. I've heard a lot about your show. I've heard a lot you. My of course, would like John Anthony Wi West, I think was on with do a couple of times. Maybe he was very proud that I guess you did the only full sky the interview with him. Yeah, that's the only one I've ever done is with him yeah. He used to like to talk about that. So well. I just
how to talk to him, and you know he was in upstate New York at the time and it's just he really didn't, have any play I want to come down here and just was very fortunate to one day get him in studio that was yeah yeah ice. So it's been wonderful. Well, his war work that dvd Series he did magical. Egypt was amazing and I had seen your work before that in that mysteries, sphinx thing that was narrated by Charlton Heston, Heston NBC, one thousand nine hundred and ninety three. I think in many ways it was the mystery of the sphinx that really broke everything open everything to the public attention. I've had many people tell me I'm not trying to brag are anything just saying it's actually that this really uh wind up a new field if we could put it that way, a new way of looking at things in the popular among the popular public interest of popular media that but people
around the world versus the academic scholarly journals in the back and forth. That type of thing you have to remember, I'm a faculty member, I'm at Boston University. My academic in many of the academics, have poo poo, should we say over the years bringing things to the public, but I think it's been important to do now. What we're talking about the people that are uninformed is the idea that some of the structures in ancient Egypt are far older than convey. Wisdom or conventional modern day, archaeology, modern day egyptologist. They would like us to believe that all of this spawn from a very specific time period and peep, like John Anthony W in yourself and some other folks, like Graham Hancock, are proposing. It is entirely possible that there were many different errors of can reduction in Egypt and that there are some structures that are far far older than we think
exactly and this. What I was alluding to is this really opened up with our work on re dating the great spin yeah and I think you know the story, but maybe just a summarising the smallest of nutshells John Amv any w. Before I met him, he was became a follower. Should we say I shouldn't say follower, because that sounds wrong. That sounds like it's a religion dogma, but he became interested in the work of the lay Schwaller Dulu Bitch, who died passed away in one thousand nine hundred and sixty one, but he get mentioned in uh, one line that the sphinx had been weathered by rain. I would say: quotation as a geologist, not wind and sand. So this, if it were true in it, is true- would put the sphinx back too much earlier period, which we, tie in with Schwaller's work and John Anthony W West subsequent work, that there were indications that Dinast
Egypt, as we know it, going back to about three thousand BC, was really a legacy of. I called now earlier cycle of civilization, something that goes back much much earlier, which at this point I date back to the end of the last ice age, ice age end at nine thousand seven hundred BC, just to put in perspective for p, So when, when did you you first get on board with this John Anthony was come to you or John Anthony W, ok, so the story goes this way, John Anthony W Pub. Serpent in the sky, his probably most famous book First edition, one thousand nine hundred and seventy nine. He was then Lou, looking for someone that could really validate, or at least assess from a scientific point of view, this theory about The sphinx which he had just barely served touch the surface based on schwaller that maybe it could be older, but this was really a geological question. He mentions that
one thousand five hundred and seventy nine serpent in the sky, John Anthony W went on to become very involved with Egypt then he start traveling to Egypt. He let tourist to Egypt. He wrote the travelers Kita ancient Egypt in nineteen. Eighty five also mentions in appendix I think it was just the quote: older sphinx theory, but really looking for someone to at least assess it scientifically. He met a fellow at in in Egypt. Actually, at the time, Robert Eddie, who is Phd English literature, I believe something like that, but he was takes teaching in Cairo American University in Cairo. I believe, then he came to Boston University. This is late now, eighteen eighties, I was and still do, teach at Boston University full time. Robert Eddie and myself got to know each other
Robert Eddie mentioned me as a geologist to John Anthony W and that maybe this was someone who seems fairly knowledge. Bull fairly, open minded about things. That time did you have any little on each jump to my interest in Egypt goes way back. I was king about ancient Egypt when I was literally six hundred and seventy eight years old had a grandmother who had a wonderful library at the time, and I go through her library, shit books from the bridge. Museum on ancient Egypt going back to the turn of the century, so I was prepared. Since I was open to such things, but I didn't imagine getting involved in Egypt in any way professionally Did you have any thoughts about the dating of the sphinx or the pyramids or anything back then? Before you looked, there were two things. So there were two things going on in my head back then, which may be prepped me for this number
and I knew the conventional story. I knew that the sphinx goes back to two thousand five hundred BC. According to the standard Egyptologist one thousand nine hundred and eighty nine, which is when I first I believe it was one thousand nine hundred and eighty nine. I first actually met w in person. I right in my mind that the egyptologist must be correct because they've studied it. They must know what they're doing I was coming from academic point of view. I I'm, not I'm just giving you saying where I'm coming from right. I had gone to Yale University. You get my Phd in geology and geophysics. I was very well grounded in quote the status quo. Academic point of view. So I thought when I first went to Egypt, I would just prove w wrong. I would just prove that the egyptologist knew what they were talking about, but- and this is important
I was also trained in many ways, both as a graduate student and going back to my grandmother, who I had great respect for and was also very sadly throw an open minded but critical. You always have to follow the evidence where Everett goes, and that's always been my rule of thumb that not everything is always the way people say it is even if there a thing Ortiz and something I already knew when I went to Egypt for the first time, was that some of the very old Egyptologists in the late 19th early 20th century had actually suggested that just the way it looks the feel of the sphinx not based on hard evidence really that maybe it was older than the pyramids that maybe it goes back they're. So I felt that it wasn't all said and done, and you know pat and sound that the Egyptology necessarily knew what they were talking about in modern times, because some of the earlier Egypt
such as who they held in very high respect supposedly had set different things. Secondly- and I hate to bring this up, but I will because it's part of the background- I, my grandmother, who I mentioned a second ago, was a theosophist and if you know anything about Theosophy, it also suggests that you know maybe there's things that go back earlier. I don't. What is a theosophist? I see Oscar fish, it's it's to explain it. You have you heard of blood clots, Madame Blavatsky, no okay. I'm losing my headphones. Theosophy was fair and in the late nineteen century it questioned a lot of the materialistic values, a lot of the dogma of science of the time of religion of the time it look to the e in particular to other full
ASA fees, other world views. So basically it was a way. This is what it did for me at least, and I'm not a theosophist. I don't wanna say I'm at the office of but reading theosophical works on top of everything else allowed me. I think to expand my horizons into see that maybe the dogma of the day is just that. The dogma of the day that there are other possibilities- not that we accept something just because someone said it or it, because it's old or because it's this religion or that religion are that's supposed to be ancient culture. But no, you keep everything open. You look at the average and that's really where I was coming from, but my point is that even in the late 1980s early 1990s, when I first got involved with this, if I looked at it critically, the evidence was not that definitive for the age of the sphinx.
So I was going in with open mind at possibilities. But honestly, when I first went to Egypt with John Anthony W in nineteen ninety, I thought before I got off the plane that this would be simple, open and shut case. I would prove him wrong in the sense of his assertions that maybe the sphinx was older. I had no doubt that the time that my colleague in Egyptology must know what they're talking about and all of that changed, literally within thirty, without exaggerating three thousand two hundred, twenty seconds of first scene re, Spinks yeah. It really did what was your first impression, because my first impression of the sphinx was now and I saw it on the ground in person there, something wrong with the Egypt ological dating be.
Because when you look at the sphinx He rose Shin and weathering that I saw on the strings the body of the sphinx, which is very difficult to tell because it's been heavily repaired and re worked, but particularly on the walls of what are known as the sphinx enclosure. The sphynx enclosure is important because it preserves a lot of the details and if you happen, if the audience has not been to Egypt, they should realize that when they carp the sphinx, it's all solid bed rock. Only the head initially was above the ground surface. You carve the card down into the rock to free up the body. What I call the core body of the sphinx in a sack core body and
the walls of the enclosure, more less a quarry around it. If you want to use that term that show these ancient weathering precipitation, erosional features that are incompatible with the last five thousand years of climatic history, on the eastern edge of the Sahara, so immediately I knew there was something wrong: geologically had to figure that out either. This was a weird geological anomaly or something else was going on and the sphinx might go back to earlier period. Also. I want to point out that when you look at the sphinx and other geologists have looked at this as well, they did not just chip away at the rock to carve the body more less. You could have chipped away at the rock with pick axes and that type of thing, shoveled out chips of rock
In baskets that we've been the easy way what they did is they carved out huge blocks of stone, and then I say huge we're talking multi turn 10s of tons. Some of them may be over fifty tons or more of limestone. They move those due e of the Sphinx who built what is now known as the Sphinx Temple, which is still there in rudeness, condition and the Valley Temple. So you had these two huge temples and what is interesting, a lot of people don't realize this or they don't think about. I think those constructions which are contemporary with the oldest portion of the sphinx in some ways are more impressive. If you think about the technology and what went into constructing them, then the age of the sphinx itself. So it's not just the sphinx. It's also these limestone temples that are associated with it and we're built contempt any asleep. So Jamie pulled up two photos here. The first one that he pulled up was a computer image that showed the sphinx
and showed. Ok, I'm looking at it now, yes, and in this image, what you can see, that's a computer image, that's actually from mystery of the sphinx and and there's inset. That's a aerial photograph, the real thing, and that shows how, when they were carving the body, they cut out huge blocks and then put them in position to make what's known as the Strings Temple Due EAST of the string in the section image is the Sphinx Temple? Okay in here you look at this. It says a sphinx faces Due EAST, the rising sun and right in front of it is this ranks temple? So this is a humongous which Temple made out of these huge blocks of stone which were carved out when they carved the body of the sphinx. Here you see in this image another picture of the Sphinx Temple, and so He's a rose, and you can see how can they are? You can see how big are they are? They are enormous. Okay,
these erosion features on the blocks. Don't worry about them for the moment. Let's go back to this thanks enclosure itself, it's a sphinx enclosure where you see the rolling undulating, profiled erosional features here. You see it in that picture. The vertical fishers- and I know you're familiar with this personally, because I've heard you talk about it with John Anthony W that can only be caused by precipitation The rocks are like a layer cake, so it takes out the software layers, it the software layer, some of the harder layer stick out further, but the water also finds its way down crevices and cracks natural. Softer in it forms these vertical fishers. I want to make the point, because a lot of people get confused, they say couldn't it a rising Nile floods, no geologic,
actually. That would give a very different signature on the Rockets, not floods. Coming up from the bottom, it's actually precipitation an rainfall runoff coming come up up in rainfall for thousands of years. Well, there's two aspects: here: it could be thousands of years. It could be much stronger rainfall. You know huge flash floods, that type of thing and part of the story that I hope will get to is that initially, I'm jumping around here a little bit, but initially I was thinking five to seven. Thousand BC that was very conservative based on the geological data based on the seismic which we have to get to also, but now I believe we're talking prior to nine
the seven hundred BC for the original construction of the sphinx, and we can talk about why the dating an at nine thousand seven hundred BC. We have the end of the younger dryas, the end of the glacial epic, the end of the last ice age. I have now now put together the story based on evidence and whenever I say, if I say boo, beef, something or I think something is always based on evidence that I've been piecing together, that what we had ending, younger dryas, ending the last ice age was a huge eruption from the sun, huge solar outburst, huge climatic changes which put, among other things, a lot precipitation allow moisture into the air which came down as precipitation with huge floods, huge essentially thunderstorm, etc- and I think a lot of the initial erosion that
we still see on the walls of the sinks. Enclosure go back to that period, so you had The situation where you would get this incredible, an erosion and then it continued for thousands of years after that and was reinforced until you had the Sahara coming in. In relatively recent times, G magically Holocene to find out desert the desert you so before that it was some sort of a rainforest it. Savannah, to rainforest it actually varied overtime, and before that it was very firm, tile, Savannah lots of plants there, people have even in popular movies and whatnot how the Sahara at one point, had water and all kinds of animals. That's before the end of the last ice age before this is incredible changes that we have at nine thousand seven hundred BC.
So that's where the sphinx, I think the original sphinx goes back to that time period and that's what the Egyptians called Zep Tepi. This was a first time for them or I call Ann earlier cycle of civilization, the last site. Well, the one that we're still part of in my terminology is the last five thousand years so sick Azatian arising re emerging. I should say about three thousand to four thousand Bc Cup and to really what we have now is get a high technology center. But before that. There had been earlier cycles, civilization that was essentially snuffed out or brought to its knees, if you would, by the end of the last ice age and just to map this out of period from about nine thousand seven hundred BC. This is what I'm reconstructing now to about four thousand to three thousand b
see where we have civilization re emerging between that period, so thousands of years, nine thousand seven hundred BC to say three thousand seven hundred BC for round six thousand years. We have essentially a dark period and what I've been now calling solar induce dark age sort of ironic. The sun would induce a dark age because a brought civilization back to earlier stage, if you will I'm not sure. I follow that. What how did the this do? This solar outburst, actually cronel mass ejection, huge corruption bigger than any. I think we've ever seen. So that's what causes massive thunder showers and we exactly in modern history, not saying modern histories even close to this, but we do have isotope data, etc. That indicates this has happened in the past.
At the end of the last ice age and I'm sure it's happened many times over, and you have a lot of markers that indicate this. You have vitrification of rock. In fact, a lot of them are tonight I don't wanna be debating the issue necessarily, but a lot if the markers that people have used for Comet younger dry sore during the younger dry's, really most of them are at the beginning of the younger dry. So with claiming claiming by that a lot of the data, it is very, very iffy. I found it in sting. For instance, someone will use up as a marker for the younger dryas in that will give a date of twelve thousand plus or minus four thousand years so get the. This is just the way geology is, but I remember I can't members name. You had a guest on one of your shows. He was when Randall Carlson, not random. I know Randall very well.
He was on with Carlson and Schirmer, and yeah. He came on by a Skype, now come Malcolm and do not remember, but anyway he was one of the people that was quote comet proponent. An he started pointed out a lot of the evidence. Micro, Mikros, Pyriel's, glassy sphere, there's a nano diamonds. I don't, I think he mentioned by augmented, shocked, quartz, etc. An everyone has been assuming this has to be from a physical impact in this sense of something coming down like a comet or asteroid that type of thing. But the problem is you don't necessarily find craters? You don't necessarily find the pieces of the car damn it. You should find some physical remains, and he mentioned, and I found it very interesting he mentioned in passing, with
I'm working on now for a number of years that no and I was once on the comet band bike and I'll put it that way and I'm not trying knock good research. But when you look at the evidence, what is not being considered by a lot of people, and he mentioned this is impassive. I said: well, you know something else that could causes lightning We localize we think of. This is very localized, but if you have a major solar outburst, major colonel message, actions an astrophysicist, is now deceased, he was at Cornell Thomas Gold, who did a lot of really good infect prize winning work in Astrophys. First pointed out in the 1960s that if you
Have a major solar outburst, major colonel mass ejection. You would get Essentia Lee huge. What would be huge, lightning strikes over incredible areas of the earth simultaneously. This would cause vitrification. It would cause all these features an just, as within the last year, there's been more work done, showing that Fulga rights, where lightning strikes in modern times even small lightning strikes like that can cause, can create things like shocked. Quartz other quote impact features that people have always said. Well, it must be a comet or asteroid, but you're not finding the craters. You not find another thing. So what I'm finding are my own research is I'm coming to conclude that it wasn't a physical object
hit us. It was a solar outburst. That's a general term. I use user hospital. That was both calm. Actually there's it's quite possible that it could have been both yeah. The I've been fragments of both. I I can address that arm in there's a couple of aspects to both when you say both indications that comets diving into the sun actually because corona mass ejection is a correlate it with disturbing the sun. So in some basis, you'll have the call to comic group talking about how we go through these comments streams periodically. I agree. One hundred percent In fact. I talk about this in some way: early books, 'cause. I really was into comments at the time for each is of the pyramid. Builders, for instance. I talk about how comets might have begun and ended the younger dryas, but I wasn't thinking about solar activity at that time seriously ask no one else. Was but we now find that comments die,
I've been to the sun when we go through comment streams that can set off solar activity, so in fact I think it could be both, but it could be that the comments are affecting the sun, which is then affecting the earth rather than directly. If that makes sense, yes, and the other thing is that People have to understand. There's a couple of things going on the younger drias, ten thousand nine hundred BC when it first begins as a cooling period. It's not as dramatic a climate change, as you have at nine thousand seven hundred BC. When all of a sudden, we go from deep ice age, climatic regime, to modern or even a little bit warmer. Initially modern changes, and this is it all there yeah there we have some isotope data and we have at nine
seven hundred BC, and this is based on sediment cores in ice cores. We also have lunar data that supports us at nine thousand seven hundred BC. We have incredible climatic change, going from deep ice age, two mod for me- and this literally now, based on what they call Micro Stratigraphy from Greenland ICE cores, can be dated within get this weeks two days wow. So this happened the right way and we're talking virtually overnight when I was a graduate student. We thought things said happen. Suddenly we were talking thousands of years are decades, oh god don't take a decade, for something to happen, geologically that be crazy right now, we're talking literally weeks today. So that's incredible yeah. So I think this ties it's in art supports There was a massive solar event in nine thousand seven hundred BC. What we had just us
wait a minute ago, when I saw it out. The side of my eye was a graph of based on isotope data is what they call proxies of solar activity again based on primarily I score settlement course and the sun was incredibly active in ninety seven. BC and shortly after There- and it had huge- if you would think of anthropomorphically mood, swings would be very active, then would go very still than very active again very still, and this happened for some thousands of years and then evened out there done sir became quiet. Isn't it was during this Quiessence period that time back into human civilization, civilization was able re emerge, redevelop again and we've had incredibly good. In addition, should we say for the last five thousand years, quiet conditions
able conditions on earth for civilization to re emerge type back into that theme, but recently the sun is become very active again and we have to be very careful. I'm not a doomsayer or scare longer I'm not trying to sell people on being preppers, but the reality is. The son is starting to become active again, just as it was at the end of the last ice age. An I think this makes perfect sense, because the sun is a star, it goes, through cycles, like other stars, do an were a little planet, orbiting it and we're like all the other plants at, but it by the fascinating. Now that we have this incredible need to keep things look at the way they are to the point where we were in denial about any but will change even if you're studying things every is like. Oh it'll, be fine.
Were so inclined to wear so inclined to do that. It's very aristotelian, and in fact I forget who it was one of the astrophysicist some decades ago said about this done, it was sort of the last vestige of aristotelianism in modern science. Everyone assumed the sun is stable, Essentia Lee perfect. Yes, it goes through little sun cycles of Lebanon, twenty two years and maybe some bigger ones of of two centuries, but no one way to think of it as what it is just a plain old star that goes through periods of the equilibrium we've been in relative shoulder equilibrium for thousands of years now, but it goes through disequilibrium in has will call pickup. Since birds Shin has to re calibrate itself if you would and we feel the effects on earth and so at the end of the last ice age, we had this map passive, solar event, solar outburst, what they call solar Pro
Tana Van some. It would have messed up the ionosphere caused all kinds of geomagnetic storms, this Tyson with earthquake activity that we see be at the end of the last ice age, because we now have lots of evidence that solar activity upsets this fear and the magnet magnetic fields on the earth, the arm electrical currents in the earth. It's a cool trigger earthquakes, that are about to happen anyway. Not unlike I was talking to here in a good analogy is when you have a avalanche, is just about ready to go. You can clap your hands in some cases, and it sets off this huge avalanche yeah? So solar activity is tide in with earth activity, earthquake activity, for instance, volcanic activity? So we see volcanic.
Activity increased volcanic activity. There was a major super volcano that went off just at the end of the last ice age. Will why probably This is me speaking because of the solar activity that set it off. So when you start getting things like platinum, redeeming us. Ma'am spikes it's not necessarily extraterrestrial. That could be from terrestrial volcanic ash tippity. That was occuring at that period, so, yes, there's extraterrestrial causes, but I think that there's a very strong case to be made that this is solar, that this is the sun influencing us, which is really important to fast forward to today. Here we are we're on Skype, we're using all these electronic media. What could be more vulnerable to a solar outburst that cost yeah or GRID Power grid power grids will be right. There was a-
and I think, we're seeing the beginning of this. Are we so at the beginning of this? Because again I'm a geologist. So I think in broad terms, few hunt years is nothing one thousand eight hundred and fifty nine. Where is the Carrington event? There was a major solar outburst from a human perspective, major solar outburst from a astrophysical perspective. It was nothing but it was corona mass ejection actually, two in a row that hit us in one thousand, eight hundred and fifty nine, it's Nona the Carrington event after Richard Carey Jin, who first saw the solar flares, have really bright. Solar flare were associated with it. It was picked up on the primitive magnetometers of the time that they had, for instance, in London, etc, study by the physicists of the time and one thousand eight hundred and fifty nine there were electronics around. It was called the telegraph system. The telegraph system acted as huge.
Antenna that picked up the h, changing magnetic fields generated electricity along it burnt out the telegraph lines literally set telegraph arm. First of all, the places where the telegraph operators worked on fire telegraph stations on fire that type of thing, if we had a Carrington level event now, which is really quite minor from a astrophysical perspective, orders of magnitude, less than what happened at the end of the last ice age. It would fry our grid lines, it would knockout all the huge transformers it would be for it did that because it's coming it probably knockout all the sound lights, the GPS systems, community
patience, I mean it would really bring us to our knees. Is this an article logical chaimite from eighteen? Fifty nine yeah, the royal display in Boston is another display of a royal yeah. So bright, brilliant at one o'clock, ordinary print can be read by the light. Exactly because one thing you get is these bright auroras these bright people think of us in northern southern lights, but in one thousand eight hundred and fifty nine, they saw them around the world back at the the last ice age, because they were so powerful what they become more intense. They take on very discrete structures in the sky. Here's some known as NASH again northern lights world displays but see how it starts to take on a discrete structure on the right there and to describe it to the really see how it serves, looks like a person with their hands up in the air. They start to take on more more discrete structures. Some of them look like people with their hand,
up in the air and little legs, and so what exactly on phenomenon? This is basically hi charged particles, electrons and protons, and what not interacting with the atmosphere they form these figures, it's electrical for and they will ultimately come down if you have a tense enough one, as you did the end of the last ice age, it will look like if you were they are living. There are twelve thousand years ago, ten thousand eleven one thousand, seven hundred years ago, at the end of the last ice age- and you saw this- you would see these Thanks for the sky, oh they look like gods. They look like stick figure humans in the sky. You would huge lightning bolts, hitting parts of the surface of the earth fascinating, 'cause- that image that's in hieroglyphics and exactly
find us around the world and Anthony Perrott who's online were looking at before the people that cause a lot of people just looking what we're looking at him a discharge formation yeah. This is plasma discharge. Information plasma is essentially give is electrically charged particles, electrons, protons and type thing as it comes off the sun, and this case think the colonel mass ejection, a huge ball of charged gas gasses. One way to describe it hitting the Miss fear driving down into the atmosphere causing these like northern lights, on steroids, you want to put that my images were seeing, makes on very specific images that look like stick figures. So these are things would see in the sky, except in many cases there spinning electrically you wouldn't notice that they were spinning, go back early and they look sort of like because we tend to anthropomorphize. We tend to look at like keeping
how to rocks formations, and we make them look like what we think they look like. So they look serve like stick figure. Men is any this an actual photograph for these just graphic illustration graphic illustration, but what we do have no, because we haven't and AIDS is this for a family and since photography, but what we do have our petroglyphs dating back to the end of life ice age, where people we're seeing this in the sky and they were drawing it on the walls of caves on the walls of rocks and Anthony globally. Anthony Perrott who's, a LOS Alamos plasma physicist. He is the world's expert on this type of high energy plan. My physics, these are some of the illustration back, go back Jamie, this from all over the world. Looking at those exactly all over the World Arizona annually
same thing. It's all the same thing in noticed too, that's been see how they look like stick figures, but they have little weird dots on their side. Donuts real humans, don't have that's right, but they are seeing this around the world in the sky, an recording it also the motif of when these take on certain form they take on what look like birds has so the Bird headed man, a motif that you see around the world going back and I believe it all goes back to the end of the last ice age and what people were experiencing, what they were seeing, if you wanna call it God's in the God whatever, but they were seen this and it was having a real effect on their life and what is causing that very specific pattern that very specific shape to your seat. The way all the way, I would say, is the best way to say it is you've got this. This is simplistic, but you've got these huge Electra. Well, charges coming down, they serve focus like a tornado, focuses or, if
Do you think of running water out with spicket? If you play with it, you can sort of squeeze it and make it form different that, where my analogy to it it's the magnetic and electric fields, interacting with each other. Sometimes they serve spin around each other. Like rope, in in that it would illustration here, you see how do you as Imperator yeah Doctor Pratt's experiments where he ate a salary reduced that that shape or an over over again that's right, exactly while reproduce that and then I, it's even more fascinating, and this is something that ties in actually with Katie. My wife, Catherine Ulise and Perrott Team has confirmed it on Easter Island, you have the Rongo Rongo Script, which also duplicates this and seems to be a record, you know the modern Rongo Rongo are only a few one hundred years old, but just like any manuscript or anything it was copied over and over and seems to go back to it too. And if you look at
the Rongo Rongo I know a lot of your audience can't see this, but you look at some of them they're, even more definitive, showing what Perrott was able to reproduce, experimentally and there they have it recorded from ancient times. So when you're talking about this event that happen at the end of the younger drias, what like put it in perspective, like we talking about like Hurricane Times, a thousand like what would it be like because I, under a million yeah, I like like use, understand yeah? I mean literally possible to comprehend Hank possible to comprehend. From our point of view, my perspective yeah our perspective and there's more to it than that, you would have incredible rates radiation levels at the surface of the earth. Paul Laviolette physicists. I know and he's published on this has talked about how, during event like this,
we would have levels of radiation that were so high that large mammals, we arm our large mammals, large mammals. If they couldn't protect themselves, they you could die within three to six seven days a week or so how do you protect yourself? You go underground, you going cave she go into places because rock will protect you from the surface radiation under the circumstances. Now. You don't need to stay there forever. You can you know, because these so Other events probably came now. This is hypothetical because we've not experienced a huge one like this, but they probably care name and then it would back off a little bit, but then maybe another one would come again, I'm a geologist so think of a huge earthquake and then aftershocks aftershocks that caps last centuries or Millenia. In some cases you know smaller ones, so something that was happy
and you see this around the world to- is that where people survived hi, I believe in part because they had access to natural caves. Initially, then they built underground structures for when they came again and it also encouraged or developed this whole tradition. Should we say of happy in a place to go even if it's not occurring at the moment. They knew that these things do occur at least for some thousands of years and were aware of this, so we're being prepared- analogy I would use is during the cold war here. What did a lot of people build in their backyards? Bonder bunkers? so they were doing this also, so you get areas here. I see there's a slight of India up at the moment. Cappadocia region is very Well, they were going to get underground. How do they know to go? I think initially, I think initially I mean you've got literally fire,
coming down from the sky. Think of the lightning bolts fire right I mean if you've got a cave there, you go home until it's the only thing that gets going to protect yeah it protect here. Houses are useless right now. All that burns I mean you've got there early fire coming down. Think of this fire lightning. Yes, that is going set things on fire in your early incinerate, the just lightning everywhere, yeah almost like rain fall. Yes, yes, yes in certain areas, and that's why you have huge sheets of glass in some cases, while so that's cool, wow, yeah and so you're incinerating everything where it hits hi it's Flash
vaporizing it is hitting water, it's vape for the sexiness of flood such causing massive flooding. It's dumping, all the ice ultimately into the oceans which is causing rising sea levels, but, more importantly, is causing massive precipitation, massive flash floods and Willow population law. So we're talking about, I think incredible. I think incredible because, for instance, we can document linguistically, and this is other people's work, but I think it ties right in they haven't been explained it cogently, otherwise that there is Cin, Cin Turkey, Middle EAST is constriction of the population to the Anatolia region, Cappadocia, where you have these underground shelters. You have geology that was easy to go into an escape and it linguistically we can map back. Indoeuropean languages to a small pocket that survived there at the end of the last ice age wow
So you know, I think there was a massive around the world. You would have had population being constructed and then they spread out again and when they were constricted there's I see the site there for the linguistic data when you constricted down in one area. Of course, you lose a lot of the technology. You lose a lot of the high culture. If you will right, you know you go back to a much more primitive stage and that's what we find so we find, for instance, in Anatolia, of western Turkey nail near Asia, it was called in ancient times you find not only. Of course you got things like go back Lee CAFE, which goes back before this huge catastrophe with the monumental stone make a list excetera, but what you find there
in years later, in the same general area as you find friends since Childhood York, which is a bunch of mud, brick houses, all clustered together, aw it's gone down, it's gone into what I call on Akkadian. I call sit at this. Shoulder induced dark age were: they lost a lot of it. Not unlike an analogy, I think it's easy for people understand, analogies the end of the roman empire and everything that was lost there and then go into a much more primitive state arm with the dark ages, the european dark ages? In this case, are you look at the technology she it was much higher during the roman empire until maybe one thousand or one thousand two hundred ad again in many realms same thing here, although this was such a mighty throwback, it took thousands of years for People to re emerge in at least start to get up to this
Status now they had been before presented this in front of other. Scholars. Well, there's a lot. Of resistance. Look, I'm an academic. I don't want to sound the wrong way, I'm not looking for sympathy, but going add an limbs like this going and just write again. With the re dating of the sphinx, and that's what we didn't even finish with that yeah, but that's ok, we'll get back to that, got plenty time yeah. There's a lot of resistance to anything. That's new, any concepts, new ideas Books of ram is rich and then rich and people of ST still around and given out yeah yeah US dollars, they've staked their reputation on it, and I am stand that, and I try not to be that myself. You know the this is my pet theory, but I do try to look at the evidence. I think that slowly we're building up more
more and more interest, more and more at least people looking at it objectively and I do see changes occurring. A one thing I'll mention right now is as of relatively recently, not you're, still very, very small, but at Boston University I've been allowed to found what is called the I so see institute for the study of the origins of civilization, which is really just me at the moment. I want to build it up and I'd like to get I'm not shop around way but like to get people to donate to it eccentric center. All I'm also I've come up found it without some colleagues of buying, including some academic colleagues, were cool which stands for the organization for the research of ancient cultures, so we're bringing it into the mainstream, both as a private, not for profit Foundation as Institute through Boston. You
diversity to really be looking at these things. In a when I say professional way. What I mean by that is, you know, evidence based way arm, but also looking outside the standard dog, much the standard boxes, standard paradigms and the yes, standard vested interest, because so much science cell people say to me all the time they think science is supposed to be objective. Well, maybe it is supposed to be objective, but who are the scientists doing it? They have all their subjective bias. Season notions and vested interests, I'll try and knock anyone, but but it's a fact, it's just a human fact: yeah! It's we're all human and one of the things that happened in that documentary from nineteen. Ninety three that I was kind of stunned by was the reaction by the convey Egyptologists egyptologist, when you brought up this evidence where he was very dismissive, almost mockingly in this weird sort of a way where he was like what cult Where is this? Actually, totally in data growth,
it is. It is because that really should not have any place. It was mine, hand right who's, a mocking air and being call. I mean I've been called a pseudo scientist. Yeah! Look I again, I don't want to sound the wrong way, but I think I'm as well as Welker, in this anyone mean among my academic colleagues. You know that I appreciate that you have stuck your neck out for so long doing this research since that time have I been punished, yes, I'm sure. Yeah, I mean you know. Let's, let's be honest, you know I haven't gotten necessarily the I've had colleagues say to me and no uncertain terms very well meaning that I could have had a wonderful car, rear and had all the promotions advancements going up through the academic ladder. If you would with no problems. If I just
stuck to my some little specialty that no one really cared about you know, I'm you, got an impacted gigantic impacts on people like me that uh really fast? If I hit continue to work on, for instance, one of my specialties as a graduate student was palestinian seen mammal evolution I be talking to you about that now, maybe if it's a if it was interesting on the side but less likely right, less likely from senior skeletons and what not this call from I might be might be now, when you were doing that, you were talking like I'm one of the things he was saying in this dismissive where's, where's the evidence of this culture. Well now we have go Beckley to tell absolutely, but is the evidence, because that, American Association for Advancement of science debate on the sphinx, which turned out, I thought I was going in for real debate. I thought it was going to be great.
Debate we're really going to discuss the evidence back and forth. I brought all my data, the seismic data, which is very, very important, which we haven't even touched on yet other types of data we haven't touched on because I want to make the point is much more than a little bit of weathering on the sphinx and I've heard so many critics, even to my face they say: well, you don't read date, civilization based on a weather in profile. No I've got lots more than weathering profile. The weather in profile and erosion is the easiest thing to explain. And yes it's what I say. Or initially in that first thirty, two thousand one hundred and twenty seconds, because that's before I brought in equipment and work with Tom to Becky to do seismic work to do other types of more detailed analysis. I would not be talking to you today if it was just a rotational profile. I for my own self, I would put enough stock in that debt when it ties in with everything else. We have a coach in picture, but came back.
Someone being dismissive like that. That was now, One thousand nine hundred and ninety two go back. Lee Teppei had technically been discovered back in the nineteen sixty but they misstated it completely. They thought was maybe a thousand or two thousand years old, Byzantine, a roman Greco roman period not ended the last ice age, not yeah. Twelve thousand years old, and how did they make the distinction that it was twelve thousand years old is based on the that whales, and that was that was clash minute clash bit went back to it in about one thousand, nine hundred and ninety four. Ninety five. So, a couple of years after that dismissive comment from the egyptologist Mark Leyner, who I think is the specific person you're referring to at the American Association for the advancement of science debate, which I just went to make the comment. I went into thinking that was going to be a debate. I came out realizing that they were just try to set me up to put me down and shut me up forever, which they were not
successful in doing. Why do you think that they are so reluctant to just listen to the evidence and look at the information and consider the possibility that may be there had been an ancient civilization because it upsets this standard timeline, the standard standard story, and it also upsets a lot of people's concept of per Russian, and this is something John F. A question like to talk about the hope he called it the church of progress, reading that we've got them better and better and better, and I talked to so many people that thing that we are the end all and be all where the best that there ever has been with. Maybe we are in terms of certain types of technology, an
I'm not making a claim that people in the past could ever do what we're doing now doing a podcast with all the electronics. But, as I point out, that also makes us really vulnerable right, two things, but I would argue that there is not sure remote possibility that they knew things that we don't know that they may have understood things that we don't understand. They may have had a world view that would benefit us to at least have a feel for it. I mean I don't want to go, find spiritual tangents. I could, if I wanted too or philosophical tangent, but I also have a training as a anthropologies anthropologist. I have an undergraduate degree in anthropology on top of everything else, and I'm fascinated by human approaches to life and then
environment in their situation, and I'm convinced that we do have things to learn from the ancients, whether it's the really raw boat ancients or the more recent ancients from only five thousand years ago, even dynastic Egypt, and that it's not all simply a one way, progress that there are fits and starts that there have been high points and low points in high points again, and I'm not frankly convinced that we're at the highest point. When it comes to certain aspects, we might be a high point with certain types of technology, but I'm not convinced we're at a high point when it comes to I stone construction, the whole certainly not was still construction. So there are types of technology. We are not high point with much less get into this philosophical or spiritual or whatever you wanna call it and we don't think of it as technology, because we think of technology as being something
it's electronic. That's right! That's right! There are other technologies, and if you uh ask me, how did they build the pyramids? I will tell you, I don't know if you ask me how they constructed the Sphinx Temple, they carved out those huge blocks of stone that can wait, fifty or more tons and move them in such tight spaces with such tight tolerances. I don't know yeah, no one really! No one really knows, and sometimes people, will say you know you bring in thousands of slaves or whatnot. Well, there's no evidence for that and where we they have them stand when you're building the Sphinx Temple, you know there's not enough room to, there's. The scan around tones are so big, even thousands of slaves struggle to move them. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, just a couple buddies, are gonna move this couch, yeah yeah we're not talking about that. No, no, no and yeah. You can try to hypothesize lovers and that type of thing. But it's this is been said before
porn I've seen I'd Wesson there in person, but I've seen off the record document footage of it when they've tried to just construct a little pyramid with very small clocks. And then they end up using modern jeans and they still weren't very successful. I mean so they knew a lot yeah. They knew a lot. So there's real resistance. I find among allow my academic colleagues to want to even suggest that people could have known things in the past that we don't know now or if they knew something in the past that we don't know now. It was so trivial that it was worth forgetting not worrying about. Should there's this that concept, I find
amazing and I hate to be sterile to pick some broad brushing, but many egyptologist when I read their works or I listen to them at conferences, Excetera, and I get the impression that they might love Egyptology and studying the ancient Egyptians, but they also have this view that all these guys made one apple temples and had some fantastic art. But really you know, there's sort of primitive in ha. Ha ha. Isn't that silly and right. This very thing they say yeah the very thing they study they put down in a sense to build themselves up and to build up this idea of ultimate progress to yeah. Exactly exactly exactly, then. You also have in Egyptology, and I will give you another example of this- not just me bringing and scientific evidence and data and the Egyptologist rejecting it, but just re
recently in the last couple of years. Have you heard about the project on the great pyramid? The big void they've been using New Agra fee which a highly sophisticated technique using mu. Once I come from outer space or come from the atmosphere, they go through the pyramid. You can set up to detectors long term and pick these up their serve like x, think of x, rays technology, but you see MOO, ons of which are cervix attic particle that most people are not aware of because they just pass right through us without interacting, but we you've got massive stone. Massive stone will block some of them, so you can pick up essentially image over a long period of time. So this is really high tech physics, very expensive. A consortium of physicist did work on the great pyramid. I think it's still
I'm going, but they put up. You know tens of millions of not more worth of a sophisticated physical physics equipment gathered. All this data, I've seen the raw data, I have a degree in geophysics, geology and geophysics. I have some ability to evaluate this type of data, whereas I hate to say allowed the egyptologist I went home and I found that with my own data, when I shared my own data that not to be nasty, but they didn't know what they were looking right, which is somewhat understandable, since it's not their training right. So you have with the great pyramid, just recently in last couple of years, published in nature of very prestigious journal. They found what they believe is evidence for a huge void above the open gallery yeah there we have a picture of it: the Egyptologist
have been so resistant to this saying this is nonsense. There can't be we don't. Basically there can't be anything new that we don't know of out or if it is it's just trivial. It's just some space between the rocks is nothing important but what I wanted to say. What's really important. Some Egyptologists actually called for the whole project to be closed down because they don't like the results and they called it quote: propaganda close down, but you cut down the whole scientific project, they don't not only do they not want to look at the data it they'll want more data collected that might contradict their standard, one, if that's fascinating, that someone actually call for them, because this isn't even their study of their field of study. Right, so you're dealing with physical evidence.
But they are saying is nonsense, but this is not something they study in the first place. So this void that we're looking at here in these images to explain to people that are just listening. What we're seeing what you're seeing is? They called a hidden chamber there, but you can see how it's parallel. To the grand gallery the grand gallery is is huge gallery that goes up to the kings chamber in the great pyramid, and that's deep in the periods. Deep is the pyramid and chambers. Above this, above it, parallel, shit is maybe close to the same size of it. It's hard to tell with until it gets probed you'd have to throw into it and maybe put a camera in, but I've seen raw data. My point is: I've seen the raw data. I certainly think it's important there interpret correctly now the if it will be in the pudding as they say if they ever entered or at least put a probe into it. But my point right now is to just dismiss
the data is nonsense. Call for the whole project to be shut down is nonsense, was applying for the project to be shut down. Some of the chips, egyptian Egyptologists armed clash close to the ministry- and my point is they've done the same thing to me. So, for instance, when we decide to make work- and we found the chamber under the left part of the sphinx- that's never been explored since at least not to my knowledge, and they just dismiss and say we know, there's nothing there awesome, and that was despite the fact that we, also found the chamber at the rump of the sphinx, which I didn't know about the time, but they already knew about so it confirmed our data. Was good cousin and finding something they knew about, but when we find, I think they don't know about, and they don't want to be there, they dismiss it in
for sure they have explored one of those chambers. Correct said the explore the one that's in the rump, the one in the room, yes, the one, the rump, but it turns out, they already knew about it. It's probably not super significant. It probably is just maybe a Greco Roman R late period. You know. Berry or or some kind of excavation the one night leave important is under the left. Pawed of the sphinx, which I believe is archive, actually may go back to this very early period because we now have hieroglyphic evidence in Katie that what what is the evidence indicates an archive okay, so recently, and this gets back to the sphinx. Yes. So we started this portion of the discussion
the sphinx? In my initial observations of the sphinx, and one of my observations was that there's something going on with the weather in a row and erosion on the sphinx? The second observation: this is within the first two minutes at most. Let's at the head is too small for the body the head is not eroded. The way the core body is is not a wrote. The way the walls of the Sphinx enclosure are it's the original head. I I hate to say this way, but I knew immediately that was not the original head yep. Just from a geological point of view Right- and I believe, that's now since been fully confirm that this is not the original head. It was a re the carved head. So for a long time the question has been in,
my mind- and we talk about this- even a mystery of the sphinx. What was the original head of the sphinx? What was this ranks? Originally? We speculated and other people speculate might have been online, for Instance LEO because it faces on the equinox, the constellation LEO in the sky, not today, but ten thousand bees see or so more or less at the very end of the last ice age. Now I've had a lot of colleagues of mine, academic, Collie, say: that's nonsense. You know it doesn't mean anything because they weren't even recognizing the constellations back. Then we now have plenty of evidence, at least some of the constellations that we recognize today LEO. I would put in that category tour this in that category category Orionis in that court category, some of
don't have read as for but the ones I just mentioned, the arm hey. These are consolations echo back well into the end of the last ice age. We have documents of that. We have from mammoth bones where you have a Ryan carved on it. We have tour shown in cave walls. We have LEO shown source. It's to me. It's fascinating that some of these consolations that we recognize today we're recognize tenths of thousands of years. No shock to me: it's not nonsense that they carved a structure. Ten thousand BC, approximately that was facing its own image in the sky. So One suggestion was that maybe it's LEO, but recently Manu safe sedate
after my new saves the day and another colleague of mine, he recognized initially that there is a title, what's known as a dual title in dynastic, Egypt. That goes back to the fourth dynasty, an even back to the first dynasty, with the earliest writing an it when properly translated basically refers to the sphinx as the guardian, but an archive and not the sphinxes, we think of it as a lion with a human head, but as a lioness and it was a name for this. Linus met Het. She was the goddess met, hit, who guarded archive and we wrote a paper on that when I say we, my new Safsa day myself and rob above he may know up from a Ryan correlation and some of his work ties in with this, the archeoastronomy, but we've now
found that there is this sign which we named the J, a w sign in honor of us also INST under John F, a west of there. It is there's a JW sign and what you see here is, the lioness met hit, which was Sphynx originally based on our reconstruction interpretation and can't go into all the details down. You can actually people can read the paper if I could put a plugin if people go to my website, W W W Dot Robert shock and that's r, o b e r t, r, o b e r t s c, h, o c h. The main thing is my name's bill S c, H, o c h, so W W W Robert shock dot com they can go. I did a popular summary of the paper and they can also go and download the original paper and the peer reviewed Journal archaeological discovery where we argue that what we have here
is the lioness met hit. She has what looks like a bent rod coming out of her back people, look at the actual image and then above it is acts so yeah. Tax. When I say primitive, even for the ancient Egyptians in dynastic Egypt, it would have been sort of a symbolic acts if you would, which would a sign of someone who was in charge of things, the overseer that type of thing the bent rod. What is that? That's a primitive key. We would now call the primitive key, but it represents a key, and so it's basically saying that this is the guardian of the archives of that hit the locked chamber or vault of met it, and we also have images. I see it up on the board now, if you look at you've got the lioness with the key, and you also
have a line is not in that image by a different image that we had before. If you look at that, can, you see how there's of Linus serve a diagrammatic sh it shape for what looks like a facade okay. If you then go to the Stella that sits between the paws of the sphinx. You have the same image, much more artistically rendered of the sphinx sitting over a facade over what looks like a building. It's not really a building, it's the r type underneath, I believe so which week, which I know there's something underneath 'cause long long ago. The- early 1990s, Thomas to Becky, and I, when we did a seismic work around the sphinx, we found the chamber under the pause of the sphinx and it's I'm sure, an artificial chamber. It's very regular
and this I believe, could well be I'm hypothesising and in science we make hypothesis are testable. This is perfectly testable. All we have to do is enter that chamber, even if it's just to put fiber optic down and we can see, is it art, Fishel Chamber. That's in archive, hopefully, there's still things there, or maybe it was gutted and cleaned out and at some point, but here we have the seismic One of the seismic maps I'll call to tomographic data and what's label is normally a under the left paw. That is, that chamber we found under the left, pawed at the Egyptologists have went to deny ever since and they don't want it. Lord, and we haven't gotten permission. I don't see. Where is what we? What? How does this make any sense to me? Well, I know, but this is, if there's physical evidence, this is Paul, ticks in Egypt, not it's so squirrelly yeah yeah. So
this is one thousand nine hundred and ninety one or so early 1990s. As of last year, two thousand and seventeen we have textual evidence, ancient hieroglyphs, talking about this chamber talking about the sphinx talking about the sphinx being a Lyonesse guarding a chamber, and I want to point out that the earliest hieroglyphs that we have that refer to this are about thirty, three thousand three thousand one hundred BC, which is hundreds of years before the egyptologist claimed. The sphinx was even thought about. Being carved, which is somewhere around twenty five hundred BC, my five hundred BC. So it coincides with the construction, the great pyramid of Giza, okay. Well, that's another question. Also we'll come back to that, because I don't buy that it's more. Can we come back? Yes? Yes, yes, so the
Egyptologist claim that this rings was first car, twenty five hundred BC right, yet there's no mention of the car via the sphinx. Then they cite the immature, not the mature style. That's another stuff. They cite the top. Most is the fourth dream Stella, which is one thousand plus years later, which had at one point a partial car to fave cofre, partial cartouche of com. For which is since flaked away. It was there who did Lee in the 19th century, there were which we did in their plugin. Just if people are interesting game, more information, Robert Duvall and I wrote a book last year published last year- called origins of the sphinx where we discuss a lot of this but met hit, is a more recent discovery. So there was a partial cartouche of Khafre, which Egyptologist said ha ha. This proves that Cofre carved the sphinx,
because the sphinx it's due e of coffers pyramid copper, was the Pharaoh in two thousand five hundred BC. Therefore, the sphinx must be two thousand five hundred BC. I contend and Robert Devol an other people who are in our line of thinking content that this della that's over one thousand years. Thousands sorry over one thousand years later does now not say that it carved he carved the sphinx, but that he re stored the sphinx just like tutmoses, the fourth who was putting up the Stella was restoring the sphinx, and when you look at the sphinx, it has been re store, numerous times, including blocks of limes films that were put on to it, to re stores. Some of the very ancient weathering that when I yes, I have watch while my biggest critics. How old those blocks are. He said they were fourth dynasty,
Now, why would you restore it in the fourth dynasty when it had just been built? literally a century or two ago. You don't need to restore a meter worth of weathering, This is his answer, and I'm not trying make fun of him. Is that it's rotten rock that wasn't very high quality rocks how somehow it just crumbled away. You know, meter or so size in a couple one hundred years, Hancock yeah, but that's another issue. I don't want to get into that because. Let me just say it this way: there's there was not just science going on there. There was politics going on so yeah a lot going on. There's a lot going on exactly exactly I've seen it too, and I've known all these people for us very frustrating decades yeah, so I'm trying to Just to the science right now, but so. He himself admits that some of these repairs go back well over four. One thousand years, which may
there's no sense if it weighs four thousand five hundred years exactly exactly and they've always contended? There was no, Is there anything really referring to the sphinx until new Kingdom times? We point out in origins of the Sphinx Robert Duvall and I'd that no, you have to know what they were, calling the sphinx and now Matt hit. We have been screwed if they find that when that they find this lion S and went to the what does your I think this is very recently. My new saves the day. My co author just discovered that I don't know exactly when he found the inscription, but he first pointed to Robert Duvall myself about a year ago about a year ago, and we all worked on in confirmed it and put together the pieces. I mean he really gets the most credit for it. He he he knows his hieroglyphics
really where they find this hieroglyphic of this away now said it's shown in several different ancient. So, for instance, there is a statue of a busy day on from the fourth dynasty, who, may have actually overseen the construction of the great pyramid. I would say, the reconstruction of the great pyramid, because I might get back to that. I think they do a great pyramid, just like the sphinx was being reconstructed refurbished. If you would, during the old kingdom, not can acted de Novo, but he was overseeing that he must have had something to do with the sphinx arm. He was apparently the arm, given the title of being the overseer for of the strengths that type of thing, but it turns out this title- was something he had in Khufu's time, which is
the Pharaoh before supposedly when the sphinx is built to begin with, so that messes up the Egypt logical thinking right there, but this title was something that had been held by others before him back down to about thirty one are so hundred BC. You know five thousand years ago, again, five hundred or more years before the sphinx was supposedly, built. So now we have this hieroglyphic text that goes back refutes what the Egypt, which are saying, and not only that but when you look at the way they write it. This is the earliest writing. So it's not. We don't have anything earlier, maybe eventually will find earlier,
There are also in the context. It seems abundantly evident there referring to it as a very old structure itself, wow now how to Egyptologists receive this, it's just making its way into the Egypt, logical community, and we will see how they received so far. There's been no reaction. No, that way. No, not not that I know of the visually what you've seen it all before. So I've seen it all before, and you know it's a classic thing to that in some cases, so I hope I'll put it related to the Sphynx. And maybe hopefully somewhat analogous. I pointed out decades ago and John Anthony w- and I working on this, that this thinks the head is not the original head and I'm not sure, if I'm the very first one to ever say that I'm not quite right right cry, but was quite obvious, For me, when I, as I mentioned with
anyone saying that to me. I had not heard that someone else suggests that since then, egyptologist with, of course out ever citing me or John Jonathan West, have also been suggie doing that in some cases, and some have suggested that maybe it was Khufu's face on the sphinx rather than coffers face. After broad and Frank Domingo who demonstrate that's not copper's, face Frank Domingo. If you for mystery, the sphinx was a New York City, police officer, forensic expert, who literally, what reconstruct pay faces, compare faces that was his business and to present it in court. All he analyzed the face of the sphinx in the face of Kaufer, also known as chef for on the Pharaoh,
the Egyptologists before our time before we got involved. In this always said these were the same faces. The face of the sphinx, the face of copper of frank to mingle, came out very definitively that they're not the same face and they're, both competent artist or not, frankly, the same ethnicity of face an for mark leyner, to publish in national geographic. That I'll paraphrase some of the sphinx came alive when he reconstructed with the face of chevron or face of conference, just not science that that's you know of wish fulfillment or something right. They wanted to be the face of a certain Pharaoh. He does a computer reached construction with it having the face of the Pharaoh, he wants it to would be and then pass this ad off is somehow
so there's no in Egyptology is not necessarily science either, and I'm not saying that nasty way. But it's important point because Egyptology, lot of Egyptologist classically come more from art history background that type of thing. So tying. In with the question you asked before, I Literally, it's funny how things work I litter only when I was in graduate school. A seminar in sciences and other disciplines. You know this was because I was being trained as a scientist and one of the papers. We had to read at the time This is long before I ever thought about going to. Egypt was how Egypt ologists are resistant to scientific information and scientific data and how how to help try to overcome that if
working with the Chertoff she's. Basically, what sensor was it's very difficult and it's not to put them down, because I have lots of colleagues in other fields are not sciences right arm, but classically I would contend. Egyptology is not a science. It comes more from art history or from linguistic study. Shino translating hard lives on historical studies and those are all very important academic studies, but you do sometimes get people in a certain field in their resistant to outsiders from another field specially when they think it's a field that so far apart and so diverse what they understand, what they know their own mindset, yeah and their mindset is not geared towards scientific data yeah and I'm not again, I'm not trying to be nasty but still have to explain yourself, yeah you're not coming across now yeah. So when you initially saw these erosion features and you the first
Thirty to ninety seconds or whatever you said, it was one hundred and twenty seconds when you first looked at it in new did you have any idea that your life would take the turn. That it's taken me did you have any in mind, turn the situation storm all over the what all these years later, I merit to thousand eighteen you're still fighting the good fight. I know as John. If the West One said introducing me, he ruined he ruined my life. Twenty five years later, documentary you're still swinging. I know I don't I'm still gay attacked and I'm still the answer is no. I was naive. I was incredibly naive at the time I still was not that far out of graduate school you thought you could just present yeah, you just done it, so it just present the updates exactly great new discovery, exactly that was it, and I was so naive, and so we
first present the evidence at the geological society of America annual meeting and ninety nine when I guess it was yeah, one thousand nine hundred and ninety one and I want to say bluntly it's literally thought. This is amazing. This is great. It made start making. Some headlines around the world. Literally, there are one or two geology. Is there that turns out turns out we're working for egyptologist they didn't think there's just so great because they saw the implications for the Egypt, illogical colleagues and I started. You know a little rumbling there then the journey just coming back. Then you know internet like we have it now. Just phones in the journal start calling Egyptology. Is that we're not? There had not seen the data exciter and Meet Lee. They were telling the journalists that this has to all be nonsense. That hundreds of Egyptologists have studied this. For you know two or three
the centuries, which is total nonsense. It turns out a new, every egyptologist, 'cause, there's so few that have actually stayed this things personally sure I just two months later and I hope so yeah they were just trying to dismiss, and then the egyptologist come back and say we know this is nonsense. Essentially I'm paraphrasing. We know that the pyramids were not built by aliens, so they start bringing aliens and ufos. Just essentially just dismiss dismiss me, and I wasn't talking about total straw, man yeah. I wasn't talking about pyramids number one. We could talk about that. If you want to an I wasn't talking about aliens, they hadn't been there. They hadn't seen the data it was so bazaar in hindsight and I was so frustrated trying within their positions yeah, they were just they were really just attacking and then in age
at one point. They were pudding things in the arabic press, though, that they know I have enough friends that would read it to Maine and they were saying that I wasn't even a faculty member at Boston University which is outright lie since I just been tenured, so there was no doubt I was a faculty member there, but this was other academics saying this, but they never thought it would get back to me. I mean really really mean and nasty so game back to the uh finish, so they set up in this was, I think, unprecedented within months. They'd set up this debate at the AAA S American Association for the advancement of science, and I thought again I was so naive. I thought oh, this is one beautiful. Finally will get rid of all this nonsense in this name calling- and you know the stuff in the popular press that journalists- you can't blame them, they don't know what's going on necessarily and will really get the eh students out and will be able to discuss it.
Sanely and objectively turns out that wasn't the case at all. It was just from my perspective. They were just calling me more name said trying to say straw man and is this egyptologist? Who is in that documentary who dismissed everything that was Mark Lane till around oh yeah? and as he amended his position at all, not to my knowledge. I haven't spoken with him, for you years and years and years did you speak with them off. The record personally allow our friend yeah yeah. What is it yeah yeah? I I'll tell you this is, but he didn't say was off The record house, I guess, was off the record, I don't I would've said this years ago, but I'll say it now at that debate. At that debate AAA S debate. He just suddenly found him myself in the hall with him and there was no one else around, so he could totally deny this. But it's true all my purse have at least he to me, like you know you don't really
leave this. I know you don't really believe this. You just wanna be on television and you know or something like that. He said I said, no, I'm really to believe You know. I really go by the evidence and I do think the evidence says this and he was telling me that no you don't you know he was like. I don't idolizing me. It ties in you, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah and then his leave then and then and then what he does is. He starts asking me a question about some detail question. About the geology and well, if that's the case, how can such and such- and I think it in hindsight my been fed to him by some g or they all, just as they call someone who does archaeology but knows a little geology for our, and I thought, I realize in hindsight it was meant. To be one of those gotcha questions. I guess they say nowadays where I wouldn't be able to answer it, but no of course I thought about it. It was to me
a geologist very obvious. So I start giving him this detailed explanation as to why that's not the case and why you know my Evelyn stands up, blah blah blah and, just standing there face to face. I'm explained this to him and I see his face a return and it goes blank and I'm in mid sentence he just turns around and walks away he didn't want to realize. He couldn't couldn't refute what No, he couldn't refute what I was saying and he wasn't really answer my takeaway is that he wasn't interested in. Discussing it rationally orants. You know he just wanted to when the debate or whatever and when he knew that he wasn't going to with you, he just got out of there yeah yeah and again, you know with just a personal thing. There was no other witnesses to my knowledge of this, but if he had really want to discuss things. I was going to discuss it with them. There's someone here, so it's so disturbing that someone would put the
Krohne go so far above the information that needs to be distributed to scholars and people and students and all these folk, shelter that have questions about the history of the human race that someone would put their own reputation in an eagle above all of that and not have the the the mindset to realize well, we have new evidence and what we thought up before we're going to have to apply to new evidence and create a new timeline. It doesn't dismiss all the things. No, no! No, that's something. In fact, I'm glad you brought it up because I've long, contended that people about rewriting history, etc, yes, I understand that argument and I think we do need to rewrite good chunks of our very early history, but I've never denied dynastic Egypt in the basic chronology for dynastic agent. Now, what I say is that we've got a whole new chapter to add to it going back in time. Please
Russian. I want to mention the great pyramid here, plus things like the great pyramid, the standard dating for the great pyramids, let's say two thousand five hundred and fifty BC, or so the fair, Khufu also known as Chiappe just in case people hear those terms. I don't deny that he had something to do with the great pyramid, but when I I study it geologically and I don't wanna go into great detail here. When I study at geologically. I think there was a older structure there, I think there was something else there for instances, subterranean chamber, I suspect, goes back much earlier than the time of fourth dynasty Khufu so, for instance, to bring in Robert Paul. He is his Ryan correlation of the three pyramids to the belt stars of orion, which correlate
very well at about ten thousand five hundred BC. So he'll talk- and we talk about this in our joint book origins of the strings- how there was a master plan going back to that period. A lot of people have said: they'll, that's nonsense! Why would they be following a master plan? Thousands of years later, when they, finally, what it got around to building the structures. I don't think that's a case at all. I think there were earlier markers or structures at those spots. The pyramids, this case. Those three major pyramids were built over our hannstar re restored, older structures. It don't make sense so for instance, under the great pyramid, is what I call the sacred mound. It's actually literally a stone, outcropping, mound and John Paul Booval Robber, Duvall's older brothers. Actually architect, Robert Duvall himself was trained as a engineer. They both make the point
among other things, that, if you're building the great pyramid I mean this is a humongous structure with incredible wait, it's much easier to. Point and get nice level base. Rather than try to build over around amount. That's to this day incorporated within the great pyramid. This takes a lot more energean work, is a much more difficult engineering feat, but it makes sense if you're want to preserve that if it was sacred to them or whatever that older structure. We have images of the social structure. Are you can't see it at this point because it was a totally cover, but we have something very analogous- and I know you mentioned this when John, if the west was on the Red pyramid, is also built over an older structure, and you can see that to this day in one of the chambers, were you have this much older structure? Ms talking geologically now, based on the
vince. Then we have some images there. Where you have older weathered structure, which I believe goes back. I don't know how much older, but thousands of years older. Let's just leave it at that, and then they built the pyramid round it, I think marking it refurbishing, a much older structure. You could tell the weather in this stuff weather and the stone with their constructive. Exactly and you can see the sharp divide between the older structure and the newer structure here, which is nice finally cuts down and that newer structure goes back earlier than the great pyramid. Earlier by a generation So you have this where they are using in dynastic, Egypt, older structures, there re appropriating them. You have the case here. I believe you have that with a great pair might believe you have have that with the second pyramid. You have that with the sphinx most definitely and the Valley Temple,
the Sphinx Temple the first piece of evidence that really convinced me that something was going on with the sphinx. The first evidence that I saw that made me suspicious that the Egyptologist did not have it right was within that first thirty, the two hundred and twenty seconds that I described the weathering in the head too small, the first I have really solid evidence, was looking at the walls of the Sphinx and Valley Temple that were constructed from the stones that came out of the sphinx enclosure. We talked about that they are weathered, but then they were cut back a little bit that whether it was cut back and they were re, surfaced or re faced with granite in dynastic times, it's believed. So what you have is older structure in here's, a diagram for anyone. That's look
yeah, but what you have is older, limestone temples which are massive which were then faced with granite, but what they did they did it the hard way they preserved as much of the older limestone temple as possible before reef. We see it with granite, so they actually took the time in some cases to cut the backs of the granite blocks to fit the weather surface of the limestone web It would be much easier. You have plenty of rock they're, just skim down the limestone totally make a nice flat surface and then re plaster, so speak regretted it and what you are shipping away, the old rock they shipped with the new rash, because I think it was important for them it's like if we have a
national monument. Now that goes back to revolutionary WAR, Daisy was preserve as much of the original structure as possible, even if it makes it more difficult to do the restoration you put the effort into it just to clarify. So you feel that this time period of the Corona Lowell Mass ejection Mass ejections was somewhere around ten thousand BC. Well, nine thousand seven hundred bc- and I say that very specifically because based on Greenland, ice core data in particular, you can literally count back year by year, and the best estimate is about two thousand seven hundred BC give will take a decade or something so from that point to two thousand five hundred BC:
see which is where most conventional egyptologists date, the construction of the pyramid. You believe that the great pyramid was probably built on top of this great man, round which represented an older structure, but these are the people that their civilization was destroyed and thousands of years later we're able to somehow or another, rebuild these such alesis of years later, why don't? They were rebuilding and not pyramid as it was before or they were building building. I hear me on top of it. They obviously it retains some of the incredible was yeah exactly well think of it to this day. Ok, I think of Judeo Christianism
I mean we still have like the Temple mound. We have places where we know that there were older structures, Solomon's, Temple, etc, and maybe only a fragment of it is left, but we still held in high esteem veneration, modern structures are built around or over these relics. I think that's somewhat of analogy of what group looking in the Parthenon yeah yeah yeah, so you have veneration of older. If I could use, then I'm not used necessarily using religious terms. I mean could just be respect. Yes, so I think that for all three the major pyramids on the Giza plateau. We have evidence that there were something there whether they were pure may as we see them now, which is quite a possibility and they were just refurbished or something else all right. We have evidence that goes back to that much earlier
before the demise of high civilization. If I could put that way at the end of the last ice age- and then it was re appropriated, rebuilt re stored whatever term you wanna use in dynastic egyptian time pm. One give you another example. Have you been? Do you tripped No, I have not. I didn't think you had you need to come. I need to show this to you in person. I want to go with you. Your chicken chicken scared to go to Egypt hurts dangerous. When I may not with me take care. No, no, I buy have enough contacts. Have enough contact. Okay, I'll, go the immediately get well okay, we have to do like something happened. Yeah we'll definitely definitely want to point something out into just to to just give people a perspective of time that two two one thousand five hundred years ago, the conventional dating of the construction of the great pyramids,
is closer to the construction of the Iphone. Then she is to the construction of the great pyramids that is correct, long, a history you're dealing with when comes to agent, Egypt, so we're talking about thousands and thousands of years for sure, and this is, just for sure thing for sure like for sure. Absolutely no forget about all this. Speculation, just from Cleopatra to the two thousand five hundred BC, which is what all my All the Egyptologists accept except you're, dealing with it's a giant leap. That's right! Here's we could see it here, that's right right and so, and we are closer to the dynastic gyptians, even the old kingdom. Dynastic Egyptians. We are closer to them in time, then they were to the end of the last ice age and the demise of that earlier civilization. So this is a dynastic egyptian dynastic. Egypt arose rough terms six thousand years ago. That was about
three thousand BC. That was a a rose over six thousand years after close to seven thousand years after the end of the last ice age. So that's crazy, yeah, that's hard hard for we're talking real spans of time here and you're. Looking at were looking at a chart right here is there anywhere? Is there place there were other people can go and see this. Yes, they can go see. Chart like this is on my website in the should the article. If you go to my website, Robert shocked again W W W Dot Robert Shock S c h, o c h, dot com and go to the web site. You'll see charts like this, but what you should do is go to the main page of the website and then I believe it is a research highlights go to Whatsapp Hall Research highlights actually, I think, for those on the podcast
are seen here and then go to what's called the said, article s IDA in this yeah, but we're look when I was looking at it on the website. Yeah, which stands for solar induced dark age today, and I get in it's ironic- I think that the sun- which, of course is pride, couldn't didn't use a dark age, but when you have a major eruption like this, a major outburst from the sun hitting earth an all the rap vacations we were talking about, is going to bring any civilization down to it's knees, so thousands and thousands of years of rebuilding civilization, an rising back, look up to some still, unbelievably incredible technological level, so even if They did rebuild the pyramid, two thousand five hundred BC, it's still this incredible feat. Oh it's incredible! Even for two thousand five hundred bc before. If I could just finish a thought that I start to have I'm saying we have to go Egypt together, and I could show you something that we could do podcasts there Mabel snap I'd have to yeah. I could,
Why would take you, among other things, around the second pyramid? The second p, but you can see evidence. I would point out to you that I interpret as go back to earlier structure. Furthermore, second period pyramid. Few people seem to pay attention. This has a ring, a ring of granite around the base that's significant because they were using granite in many cases and conventional egyptologists have confirmed to this confirmed this verbally with me they would use granite when they were indicating they were restoring an older structure and there's no question that granite goes back to the fourth dynasty, just like there's, no on the Valley and Sphinx Temple goes back to at least the fourth dynasty, if not earlier, but they're using it restore. So we have all of this indication that dynastic Egypt acknowledged that they we're restoring older structures
so getting back to where we were just on the great pyramids. So, no matter how you look at it to try to do build a gr, pyramid today, whether you're talking twenty five? one hundred BC or earlier I told you that I am not going to try to get into how they did I and that's they did it it's there aw, you know it's. It's I have. I thought about it, a lot yes, where from there in Egypt on site, right or elsewhere, I mean it's incredible, but I don't have any answer for you. Is it possible that the people in that part of the world somehow another survived the corona Mass ejection in they came out better than the people in other parts. The world that were really knocked into the stone age? I think we see evidence for that because because we seem to have a huge gap around the world, But
still historical gap now what they were doing in Egypt is incomparable Look at our view, so it may well be that they face all the right materials, all the right environments, the Nile Valley in its height, which is not as its height now at the end of Seda. Let's say for re emergence I may have just been, I hate to say the Goldilocks words, but just right for everything to come together for this to, you know, come to. There. It's very fertile area, it's very easily that type of thing and also I do a tie in with what you were saying. It is, and I've certainly thought about this. It is possible that we are elect,
and the fluctuating electric fields and magnetic fields did to have some influence serve on brain development or yeah. That's real speculation, but I wouldn't say it's impossible either so these people is it possible that they retained some of the knowledge from thousands. I think they definitely retain show the knowledge. Just like We have monasteries in Europe during the dark ages, retaining knowledge and what's interesting, is in, some cases. You would retain chunks of knowledge that don't even make sense out of context it that they know they're important. There know they're valuable. What kind of examples you I think in Europe, where you would have pieces of technology that would be retained, but literary terms, it's probably easiest where you have parts of history of Alexander, where the whole thing did not survive. But you know six out of nine
in chapters or whatever survived, and even though they knew it was a incomplete manuscript. They would make Numa copies of that incomplete manuscript, knowing that it was important sort of like the Dick easements, oh yeah, there's another example. Although dead sea scrolls potentially were absolutely complete, or at least most timber complete when they were buried and put away for storage a lot of them in complete list there may be because they degraded because they were discovered by locals- have been tore him apart and soul pieces here. Are there I'm referring more to assess situation where you have ancient knowledge are ancient manuscripts and even though so monks and monster he knew that this was not a complete manuscript, they knew that even in incompleteness, it was important to maintain as much of it as poss
it's just stunning, that a civilization that was knocked down like every other civilization? Somehow another two thousand five hundred BC rose, to this incredible level of construction. That is just unparalleled anywhere else on yeah in in it did a very, very quickly very quickly, which I think does. Is it indicative potential read that they were reusing knowledge that had been passed down and somehow maybe things just click together. Maybe it took you one genius to start putting things together and that set off a renaissance, a few but I mean we've seen that historically in much more recent times and maybe perhaps the understanding of how it was built and designed as prevalent amongst the civilization amongst the community then maybe would be today yeah. So I mean there's a there's, still a lot of unanswered question since you're, obviously yeah. Obviously, it's increase
open, chrome, but I think we're starting to get more and answer. At least getting the broader outlines of what is going on. Wow, this? It's so fascinating to think that this could potentially happen to us, well that it's not only fascinating by hate to use the term. It's scary and I think, we're incredibly vulnerable. And people are not addressing this. It's not the type of thing to address for some reason because of major solar outburst am Cronel message, action and all the related phenomenon we mentioned this earlier, would sing down modern technology. As we know it would fry the grid system. You have high a radiation levels, you probably have all the flooding. I mean look what happen now, when you have little floods and ice hey. There is a geologist not too down David horrible disasters. We've had but other factors. For instance, we have nuclear power.
It's all around the world. We've seen that with a few isolated instances, bull three mile island, Fukushima. Recently what happens when you have problems with those? If you cut off power to a nuclear power plant, it's ironic lot of people, don't realize it. Yes, they generate power, but they need a power supply going into them. If you fry the grid system, your sensual going to have meltdowns in radiation you're going to have problems and on top of everything else we're going to bring on this artificial radiation around I mean and again I'm not saying this- I don't have anything to sell. You know. Sometimes I hear people talk about this 'cause. There was sell their prepping kid and now they're going to say for so much money, I'll sell. You know Jim Baker yeah yeah yeah, but no- and I ate even talk about it, except I think it's important and I think that one of the things this gets back
to that. It's not just serve academic to study Ancient civilization is not just fun and interesting, but I think there are things to learn from this, and one of the things to learn is that they survived incredible. Well, I don't know if they survive they were not to their knees, but we they went through natural catastrophes which are not unrealistic, that we could through them again and be potentially much more von more than they are. Then they were at that time because we're so relying on silver. Is there any other, any hieroglyphs that are convincing, or at least two some of the construction methods of the pyramid or of any of the other giant structure. You said convincing, I would say no now, Yes, I know,
the problem? To that? Why would you expect that we have surviving? Are Jenna play religious, somewhat, literary thing Entombs now I don't buy for a second that the great pyramid was a tumour initially too, and that's like saying huge cathedrals just to to him, because you find a couple bodies there and you've never actually found bodies in the great pyramid or any of the major pyramids, and as you know, I know you know this. The pyramid construction goes downhill as you go into later, dynastic, Egypt, so they seem to have either gotten sloppy or just lost some of the technological finesse they had. So you find in some of the tombs these. What seems silly pictures of them dragging huge statue choose an sledges where they're, supposedly pouring oil
or water in front of it to lubricate it, and you so the Egyptologist say a hard. This is how they built it. All will try doing that in real life. It doesn't really work, so I think some of that may just be sort of artistically. Since our metaphor, that type of thing you have any images that not that I brought with me, but my point is that you wouldn't even expect them to be leaving detail, construct your plans are that we would necessarily find them. Maybe we'll get lucky find someday, but put it this way if they find a bunch of iphones, twelve thousand years from now or five thousand years from now, whichever period we want to talk about, will. They know what they are and even if they know what they are, will we they find the plans of how to build one in the factory specifications of all the engineering that goes into it now,
So why would you expect it for the great pyramids right? But well you know it be a lucky. It be a lucky find if you did but the odds are against it and not to throw out too much academia type stuff, One of the things I study as a graduate school as I took a series of courses in Taphonomy, which is basically how did things get preserved, Focuse on fossils, but the principles applied to other things as well as you go back in time. What you expect to survive? Logarithmically drops off, you know, so you go back to these earlier periods. It's amazing. We have much of anything and what's going to survive big, massive known structures, not the plans on papyrus or sheep. Skin or whatever of the details of how to build it. That's what I found particularly offensive about that egyptologist, saying where's the evidence of this culture from ten thousand five hundred years ago
like what do you expect to find yeah exactly? This is we're talking about. You know what we find from that earlier period, if you think about our massive stone, monumental structures. We all be grounded, it was incinerated. It was ground into dust or three reused. In some cases. Sometimes people say well they: how could they do that without metal tools will may email large? She does go back further. Maybe it was low, question, then reinvented again. So again I don't deny the standard time frame, but there could be a lot of things going back before that and if you have metal and I'm now, trying to focus on metal now and I'm not making any big claims about metallurgy earlier time. But let's just say for in this is a thought experiment. If you add metallurgy much earlier than Tensional timeframe says, and you had a natural catastrophe e like that. Are they just going to leave
their metal tools all over the place right? No, they collect all the scraps of metal possible in Greece Michael and reuse and reuse. We do that. To this day I mean people got in mass juices, at least if you have a warehouse and you're, not paying attention to it all the time. It's a old warehouse. There been cases where people have found someone broke in not to steal the things in the warehouse, but to steal the copper piping yeah. That's very common. Now there's some of the more interesting pieces of evidence that came out of the great pyramid and a lot of a lot of the other structures of Egypt. I've been the pottery, that's a incredibly difficult to reproduce like those stoned, yeah yeah. Well, you just made a mistake: I'm not criticizing you! I said pottery, you said great, because it's important distinction, not Audrey Clay, is fired in a kiln in party
It's literally carved out really hard stone which will crack easily. If you don't, oh it just right, so it looks like pottery and that's you used the term colloquially. Put that way. It looks like pottery, because that's how people imagine you know it looks like a beautifully shaped pot, but some of these they go and they go back to the earliest dynastic, Egypt and probably much earlier, they are carved out really hard. Planets and shifts and nice. You know these really hard stones and two incredible tolerance is an incredibly thin incredibly beautifully carved. Importantly to very small open, very small opening this exactly. And how do you do this? I mean it's just incredible when you have to come to Egypt with Ok and when we do we'll look at some of these on site. There's a bunch of
curry museum there, some at museum at Saqqara, where they on that. No that's, not right a nice one yeah! That's that's! A base looks like a mace. Handers are tested jar, but that's not what we're talking at that's, not there's much much nicer arm. I am much nicer in the sense of the finesse of power bulls Guard Terrill they were, they were carved out of Jose. Marti F different mark the easier ones to do. They grab them out: Diorite Granite NICE, which is a metamorphic stone schist. These are really hard, challenge. How do you spell direct I believe, try that because that's what I'm, sure? I saw one of those carved out of that, and so the so, and so so
thing is that these are really hard to carve that use very narrow openings, like you said, sometimes they put handles on them, so they're not just spinning them on a lave, because how would you get the handles on it? 'cause, that's not put on separately, it's all car from looking look at that, there's a nice one, then how much done vessels- and these things most of these have been found going back to the earliest dynastic times, but what suggested the other, somehow they were carved Aquarius pride to this standard, egyptologist I'll, try to do that without cracking it without making a mistake. Except for all, looks plain what we're looking at we're. Looking at some sort of looks like a little amazed to see our nation were you at our denture ratchet out the inside now to I'm in? Maybe they didn't just took a long time. The speculation of the other now look at the one right above, a Jamie that Red One, the Red one right above you carry out that one's incredible yeah, they're they're, absolutely incredible, and we can see these hi this
right. So what what's this Speculation through this speculation is that they were do get the same way. They were doing a new kingdom times. So when you look at them new kingdom times as a general rule, you get thing similar to this new kingdoms. Let's say one thousand five hundred pc just for round numbers. You get similar types of basis and whatnot, but they're actually to my eye much crew, you're generally, there made a softer stone more year, Cal sites in limestones and marbles that type of thing they generally are just not they'll. Have the same artistic finesse to them, the same perfection to them and the looking them Egyptians did show diagrams, as we just saw of how they did it are supposedly did it in that they will be how they were doing it. But I question: is the GR just whether that would really work for these beautiful
harder stone? Much more perfect in my assessment, older ones, though you find going back to the earliest dynasties and find, in some cases thousands of them. So that's a car at the step pyramid generally considered the oldest pyramid, although I would question that, but it's definitely old pyramid even by Egypt, a logical standards. You found thous things up. These really well carved ones from the harder stone, the more artistic ones. If we could call it that serve a huge horde of them, I don't even think they were necessarily carved at that time. I think this may have been a horde that they had preserved from now sense of years earlier. So have a stockpile our museum, if you would, in fact what we're finding for many of these quote: tombs and temples, not temples, tombs in pyramids. That type of thing is that maybe the essentially they were stuck.
Tiles they were the equivalent of fallout shelters. If you stock away supplies that type of thing that may have been part of the original structure, Some of these are very long next to a very, very long angles as bottoms exacts Ainley difficult, the ones inside good, there's one so yeah, some of them very much family, difficult. Some they have all kinds of curve yeah and what you have to be careful, as I was saying, is that you have that really well financed very ancient once and then you have ancient ones that are from came to only three thousand three thousand five hundred years old, yeah yeah and then what you have- and I could show you one and if it's still on display in the Gyptian Museum, I say still on display, because the change this place and they're building a new grand egyptian museum S. I call so it's hard to sell yeah. I need any trip when we got the job, okay, Now, I'm trying to say I can show you one where I'm
convinced that it's very old bowl that was then he used in later time. So you see this cruder hieroglyphic inscription on it and you look at it and you say someone that could carve that the incredible bowl would not have done so accrued inscription on it see I mean so and then, when we go through each with a megalithic statues and what not you can find over and over where they would carb on them later, so re appropriate them in later dynastic times, which is still thous. Of years ago, so very ancient from our personal perspective, but they were reusing. Older structures, wow an older, older artifacts. This other out, the whole subject is so fascinating to me, but this whole thing is very weird because it's almost like one of the crazier pieces of evidence, but it's dismissed
oh yeah, it's like right under your nose, so it's absolutely dismissed and it's not unlike and I own, think of this 'cause. I know you saw it. If you remember, when 'cause I watched the recent need to refresh my memory, the podcast where you interviewed John Anthony West, and he showed a picture which happened to be my hand but in my hand was a little bead that was found. It could Beckley Tappei The thing is remember that little beat had this. It was a very hard, probably volcanic, stone and little teeny hole drilled all the way through it the long way. So you had a drilling, that's you know centimeter more long going through, it's not just a little hole punch through, but a little tunnel going through there. It is all- and do you know how do you do that with primitive technology? That, to me, is this amazing as direction of the pillars? While yes,
So you have to look at both small scale and large scale and, like you say, the bulls, maybe something you hold in your hand, but yeah there, justice, incredible technology just like if people were to judge us today Ten thousand years from now they say that Iphone is incredible technology, even those small scale. Just like I guess they would maybe say. If anything survives of them, some high rise was and this is go Beckley tempe- is that we just pulled up Jamie these images which is a blue sign of the nail there or something like that. Yeah are they they called here plugs or plant bugs some people claim. There's. No one really knows exactly what they are. Your plugs, yeah! Well, don't doubt that not your PA! plug your ears, like, I don't know exactly what that be, supposed to be yeah, they come buttons there. Sometimes, what is the speculation on the construction methods of those complicated polls? What do people believe they did, but the bowl
egyptian once we're talking about. Is there any? speculations or anything speculation- is that they may have been using some kind of lave, for it, at least in part, but the problem is, you can't turn and still have the hand just sticking out if you do standard workout- We are spending life and type of thing, so there's something else that has to be gone right it on there. I was going to say part of the problem. With any of this knowledge being passed down right up into at least the sixteen in hundreds early 1700s. You know there were guilt systems where you at retain knowledge of how you do certain technological things, and I think that may go back to very very ancient times, but you don't want just give out bright. You know the knowledge to anyone, but you know again: I've. I've heard no good, compelling and my mind explanation as to how these things were made. Now, one of the things that they
down the king's chamber was what they refer to. As a did. They called a sarcophagus like yeah. They call this a cop because I prefer the term coffer and it's made out of granite as one granite, the coffer meaning like almost a treasure chest yeah. I treasure Chester, Big, Chester Brock's, that type of thing it's missing. It's littered, the sarcophagus represents something you've been a body and yeah. You don't think that's correct, no correct! That's why I don't like calling extract biggest coffer this more generic, should we say an and doesn't the kings chamber has some of the more complicated stones right, larger. It's lined with granite, so the price memory, construction, material of yeah, I got nothing. The primary construction material for the great pyramid is limestone. Some of the limestone was queried pretty much one side and you can still see the quarries, their other haiku
call T limestone, noticed or limestone was brought from across the Nile, and you can still see the tour of limestone, quarries and then granite was used for parts of the construction particularly would line the kings chamber, and this granite was brought from southern Egypt brought up brought down the Nile. I should say from the S to the north of Nile flows from the S to the north and it's ass on granting you're talking about huge blocks of stone up to ninety tons, or so have been. The estimates for those particular stones in the things chambers. So when you go into the king's chamber, is totaly lined with this beautiful red ass, swan granite. You've got this big coffer there that you know they give you mission, you can lie in and it's a nice feeling alright to lie in a lot of people. Have you know all kinds of experiences, except for the church? Really incredible, but it is the
this line is so perfect and so well fit together. And you of this you know all the sides are roof. The ceiling by the road star ceiling of it, the walls of it the floor of it, the coffer there and then you have what they call star. Shafts are air shafts that go out to the north and south. That's what Robert Duvall worked on in park and then above the kings chamber you have the so called relief chambers are relieving chambers which you can't get into normally. I've been in there a few times, but you have to get special permission. They have to put a liter from the grand gallery and you go through this little snake hole so to speak, to get up there, but there's these chambers above it, which seemed to serve no function, that either called relief chambers are relieving chambers because there was early specula
and that somehow they help distribute the weight of the great pyramid. But in nearing for my engineering point of view, they don't seem to work our desk. Seem to make any difference between the rest of the pyramids solid. Another pyramids are solid, Why do they call Peyton Barber all the kings chamber? Basically, the Arabs called it that, because their concept was, if I remember correctly, that men, then we have a chamber with a flat shielding on it. The queen chamber, which is lower down in the pyramid, has inverted, v, shape change ceiling to it and they thought that was for the queen. That would be female. The kings chamber would be for the mail, it's also the more impressive chamber, but it's been just. Speculation is purely speculation. Yes, purely speculation. Now the coffer, this giant Stone Box, one things that I read was that the way it was built that they believe that it was paid.
Simple, that cores were drilled out, yeah yeah, probably the, and we have good evidence for that. Going back to earliest dynastic times have not earlier that they, I forget where you called in modern times, but you have a drill bit that is circular in shape and it drills out of core. So now they we're drilling granite you again, if it still on disk, I could show you in the the Egyptian Museum in Cairo sarcophagi. Probably car for guy. Are these big granite boxes, where they were signed, the granite, in fact not where they saw it, looks like they were using high speed saws, because in some cases they would make a little mistake and then have to back off and go at it again. You don't do that if you're in my opinion, if you're doing it by- and you know back and forth with right, so I think there's some sort of machinery involved, there's
the kind of machining they were using an and very ancient time search once open your eyes to it. You see it are you see it seems to be high speed. She Neri there's no regulation as to how others not using regulation. In some people say they had electric motors and electricity and all that type of thing. Okay say some people, though yeah some people- I don't go there because I want real evidence right, so I see real evidence that they were doing things that. Seem really unbelievable. Some standard status quo, conventional pov say that each of the logical point of view of how how primitive they were right. I'm not into speculating inordinately as to what what kind of technology they might have had. I just don't know at this point yeah their images of the the inside of the secure fickas like we could get a look at what
It looks like all right so they're in pressure, I'm sure he can are obsolete. I don't know if you can see the drill marks they have recently now arm, but you so there there. You can see other places so, for instance, way we go into the Valley Temple next to it. There's one of the doors is an huge hinges and I don't think you're going to find pictures of this on the internet 'cause very hard to photograph. But when you look at the in person, you can see how they drilled out the hinge several several inches in diameter and did a core drill, because you can still see. If I remember there, you can still see the sort of the stub where it broke off, yeah. You can see how they were using sophisticated techniques to do this, but no idea whatsoever, but I don't know what can well put it this way. If we, this is not speculating that they had such things, but you can
Intel and modern times that someone used to Power SAR Power Drill or this type of tool or that type of tool. One thousand if years from now, you might be able to still see that and yeah like bill interpret it, but you don't have a single example of the tool that was actually used for right right. You know, I mean these guys, sometimes almost find it silly when people say well here we go, we got how could yeah that's a nice example of it. Ok, there we go that's a good example yeah, that's actually, probably the one I was just talking about the a borehole, yeah formal, and you can see the, how is spinning, you can see how they were cutting down quite a bit and each turn. So, so so I almost find it. I doubt almost find I do find it silly. Sometimes when people say to me critics skeptic. So you know if they were doing all this stuff will where's examples of their tools. Guys just leave, you know they Walker
ok from site and they leave their box toolbox there. You know. Even our forget, I mean all the all the mechanics I've ever known, and people like that they're very careful to pick up every tool and put it back in make sure they've got all their equipment will go to them. But I signed a bill that you try to find a hammer, yeah yeah, exactly yeah. No, it's it's completely make sense, but man which I would just like to know like what were they doing and how they make the the whole? That's a massive massive mister right in front of everyone's face: yeah yeah, exactly what's the Stan here to egyptologist. It's really. They don't really have one they just their shows. All we see that all the time. Well great! You see it all the time, but it reminds me we have. This is may be silly, but I'm going to say it anyway. Now I don't well I'll, say it anyway, supposedly
analogy yeah. If you, if you're used to something, I put it this way, if you're used to seeing something on regular basis, you start stop question. It just become comet for you, but you don't really question it's like technology today. How many people could explain how even the which room entry sense how some of the technology we works that we have today the Egyptologist seem to do just get immune to it. They see all this fabulous stuff and they just forget that will this was made somehow we don't really know how it was made. Then they again go back to missions of oh, you know on some new kingdom are late period. We have this illustration. This must be how they did it and I'm not convinced that. That's always they did it. What is it can be almost just to look a little cartoon right? Do they have it remember where they they would have
have a drill and some stones around it as waits to it's been a no. I haven't seen that maybe a house yeah yeah, my dad yeah yeah, I mean they're, so you think that's just purely speculation, yeah or it could be serve the problem. Cartoons of you know simple explanation of how something works. An AL of that is really more to say. Ok, if you're a watchmaker, they say two hundred years ago, your watch maker- you might have some signs that indicate your watch maker, but don't try to take that sign, is a blue print of how you actually made watches right right. No, it does it does. I did the so the when they can attracted that that are they somehow or another board yeah they probably
Ford down, maybe board in the Quarters Board down broke out pieces. Is speculation now and broke it out and then once you've got it roughed out, then Paul, push the surface. Is that type of thing? If you leave any traces of how it was actually constructed? That's not as good as if there are no traces Moreless. You know it's not as good good job. You look at something like the statue of Khafre or chef RON. This is incredible statue and they the egyptian museum. Again, it's the one that was has the face of the Pharaoh that supposedly was the face of the sphinx, which they don't
match up at all, as the hawk initial has a hawker shoulders odds. That statue is absolutely incredible. You know it's so smoothly. Polished, x, setter. You have to look very hard to find a tool marks are evidence of how it was car, because you know a really good work and ship you remove all that ultimately, so that's part of the problem with some of this really high quality egyptian work is that they would remove the traces yeah there. It is did they would remove the traces of how it was made. The ten in that image. Good thing you on the side of it, you see that sort of plasma formation. Yes, absolutely because this ties in this is why I brought image of just because it ties in with that hoe full. And it has a certain area. Well, it has to say
also were exactly very observant and think about the bird batman. The hawk. You know right in this incredible statue. If you feel it face on you, don't see the bird from the side. You see the bird all this stuff is so fascinating. So I think it really all goes back to this view. Early formative period. If you what this really important for humanity and what was happening there, Sir Head on view, and there you don't see the bird at all. Of course, incredible and Tammy carve something like that today. I don't know what it would cost you could hey. I've heard yeah. This is anecdotal, back talk to stone cutters and that type of thing and yeah to try to duplicate some of what they see in Egypt. I mean it just with take them so long and so much work.
They would be showing are answered with modern power tools that they basically say. You know who could do it? Do you have a? I fear that this is going to this information is going to be lossed but yeah you're so far down this track of sort of explaining these things and these revolutionary theories about what happened, and I don't this is a mean. I've been studying this for a long time, and this is the first. I'm hearing it. So that's why We need to be on your show right, I'm so glad you're here to get the sound to the public, yeah you're so far down this road is there. Anyone else is doing the same kind of work, as anybody else is with you on this. Well, I think I'm the one that's doing this right now, but I think there are a lot of other pieces that cayenne so Perrott Doctor Perrott's work, but he sort of been had some Health issues and other things changed older arm the electric universe. There says, what's known as to you,
electric universe, community, which ties in with this- that trickle phenomena and plasma discharges are more important. There is a whole group now well that I think are starting to think about what if we had and uh. They're Carrington event in the new future. How would that affect our grid sis, what I'm saying is. I think there are a lot of little pieces that are starting to come together and you're starting to come together. Weaving this to go but what I'm trying to do right now? It's to paint the broad picture, the broad strokes- and I think it goes back, but at the end of the last ice age and what was happening then right up until now, in what the implications are and How is this being received? Are people picking up on that? I think people are picking up on it and sometimes you know people are picking upon it. When how did they say it? The sincerest was it.
Copying someone or is this is serious. Form of flattery things, so imitation that's an imitation and I do find and sometimes get a little annoyed. What yeah people are starting to talk about a lot of these things, specially the plasma and the sign and solar of bands and all of a sudden by chance or talking about it, not necessarily mentioning me, but I think, yeah. I know they tend to lecture or they may be read my book, but yeah these things take time and I'm not asking for a lot of you know everyone has to acknowledge Maine, but I think it's important to get the information out and I think, as we have things like your podcasts and people read the books and I'm able to talk at conferences. We slowly gets Well, you know it takes time. It all takes time. He put it this way. Her Nicosan, I'm not sure bring myself to Copernicus, but compare
Nicos and the heliocentric view. He publishes that on his deathbed, that was of do they actually went back to the river processors in ancient times, of course, but he publishes at his death bed and you know a couple of generation. Are there still? computing Galileo for supporting it. So these things yeah things go quicker now yeah, but it still takes some time. I see a big difference now Then I do in the 1990s, for even it is because of the internet. Internet helps. I have mixed feelings about the internet because the pro I think the internet is you can disseminate information. We get information out, but it doesn't mean it's good information, so you get
the naysayers, the critics, the skeptics. They have access to it to news news and genuine fake news versus real fake news seems that so many times there for that yeah yeah they're, very much, usually so it's very confusing. So one of the problems I see with all this information and misinformation, all these factoids out there. It is very confusing for many people, if they're not involved in something again, I'm I try and claim you have to go to experts and authorities 'cause. That's part of the problem too, when you have the pseudo authorities who just are pushing their own agendas and, frankly, don't know what they're talking about- and I see two men that say certain academics and skeptics that among but it's also confusing when you only take information and Heather, so I teach you know, I teach
universe, I teach college at Boston University and what I find with students and I'm not picking. Then I'm saying this with all due respect. They have so much access to fax, in fact, which will use that term, but they have to understand the bigger picture. They have to be able to understand critically and think critically about it to put things together, awesome and how does that all fit together and fat? That's so important and that's not something I think you get just from You know surfing the internet right, of course, quickly. No watching a couple of Youtube videos by someone- that's not necessarily reliable. That's a problem right. How much S. Information's been spread through you to more it more than good information from, hopefully I mean we could put on some fake lab coats right now and just make some nonsense. Video yeah, if you know exactly exactly and see I've had the problem too, it might business. Now
what I'm talking about you say you can't please everyone all the time but seems like in some cases in my career, we're in this field. I've been able to displays everyone because I'll come out with position. Sometimes sorry, I'm losing my headset I'll come out with position, sometimes where I'm not pleasing academic colleagues, but I'm not stream enough for the should we say other side rights. You know so it's odd like caught in the middle, because I'm going by the evidence I actually have it is not driving with social, the same foil hat brigade, yeah. So well. How is that received by the people that mean there are those ancient aliens type folks that really want everything they want, everything to be ancient, Alias and I've been accused of. How could I not accept this serve that you know because
get really mad at me and asked if you have a nasty similar. Even tell me what this supports, what everything you've been saying, I don't care if it supports everything up and say: if it's not real, it's not real. If the evidence isn't there, it's not. You know it is fastening. They do dig up these ancient structures in the march, a peach to different places where, like wow, these construction methods are really pretty impressive, incredible. What was going on back then, but they always want to tie it to aliens. They always wear a tie tailings, which I think is a I hate to use this term but serve a cop out yeah. I mean it business, it's a business. What that's where it gets! down to a lot of this is business. People want to sell their books, they want to sell their conferences, they w sell their dvd's, they won to sell their Youtube videos and some places they want to sell for money. In some cases they want to sell for promotion self promotion. They want to be famous. I told you I was accused of that back yeah
and the early 90s, so I just doing this place so won't be famous. No I'm not type of person people love those shows those UFO and ancient Alien, your house, and they love those conferences. They go to this conference yeah they all just yeah. They managed to be together very bizarre they're but they're all like yeah there's but you know, but I think it, but I think it does fill a void for some people, and one thing I'm trying to do is to fill that void something real something important something that has evidence to back it up, because there are a lot of questions. There are a lot of mysteries and I will admit, I've been on the ancient aliens show, but I've never proposed ancient aliens have never supported that. I've always been clear. People actually listen to me, but they asked me to be on in a number of other academics have to do the you know the context.
Well, yeah. The context is not necessary, yeah slippery, but the point is that there are real mysteries to this yes day thing is that we don't really understand that you and I have been discussing about and there's so many more we could discuss, but those real and so many people that I know that watch shows like that. When I talk to the man, I'm talking academics, who would never admit that they watch it, they watch it because they find entertaining number one. They don't quite say this way, but I think it fills a void and it did let's raise issues that, if their perceptive than they might become aware of and realize that these are real issues, no ancient aliens or some other easy answer is not the way to go, but they are real things that need to be looked into. So even when I speak at a conference,
like that. There are so many very intelligent people that are there besides the other, but you know they're different types of people sure, but I know Many people they'll have PH ds and stuff and they'll go to it. For serve between entertainment, but also to get exposed, things: they're not going to be exposed to buy the standard academic. You're not going to get exposed to a lot of this. These types of questions, if you just go, to the standard. Closed academic, Conf they're going to be washed over. So you know in part what I'm trying to do with Oracle bolt the organization for the research of ancient cultures, which is not just me. I want to be clear on that. In fact we are present. Tent is he's. Actually, I guess heavy metal guitar play he's, he's really Berkeley.
It rained he's excellent yeah. No, I mean seriously, but he he's a really bright guy and he's fascinated by these things. We have people like Jocelyn Godwin from Colgate University who's, a world renown, scholar on the Advisory board, but were try do with things like Oracle cool they encourage people to actually look at it. 'cause we've got website up. You can go through my website, www dot, robertsshock dot com to get there or go directly to? Was it www dot? Orcool? Oh there it is there we go or cool on nine o r, a c? U L online! You know all one word dot org and we're trying to do with this, and also through the institute for the study of the origins of civilization. Iso see, which I'm trying to do at Boston University is to have a forum,
or we can look at these real topic. These topics, these topics seriously using evidence, but not us, but also not be dismissive. Just because we have to uphold the standard dogma. So I don't wanna go with just a nonsense. You know flippin easy out to Well, someone's book that you know this crazy, Booker yeah, I'm not being nasty about anyone or just stick to the standard pair time, but thinking out of the box. But as they say, but thinking out of the box using real evidence and using real logic and using real rationality, to look at a number This issue is there more resistance towards redating Egypt in Egyptology, particularly ancient Egypt versus uh. Cultures like go back Lee Teppei and see
other ancient structures at the well, I would say: go back Klay Tepi, the beauty of compactly tap bay. Is that there's no data base in touch to it? That's right. The dating of compactly Teppei is the data that is based on hard, stratigraphy. Radiocarbon dates. German Archaea magical institute, correct me. If I'm wrong, it's because it was, it was purp. It was purposefully covered ten thousand plus years ago, and in that case this ties back to r bigger picture. You have evidence, we have evidence of catastrophe e at Qubec Click tap a we have evidence at the pillars were knocked down and haste urea wrecked it, and you to see that in the pillars they built these, we have a pig sure up there. If you can see the pillar on the far on the right side, that is not a archaeological reconstruction that pillar
it's knocked down. It was put back into position, but you can see how it was put back into position crudely using fragments of another pillar. Then they built these crew wood walls to serve hold the pillars up. They budget against it. To me, this is happening in the dating confirm, sit in the aftermath of the initial solar outburst at the end of last ice age. When you had all this tumultuous, you know things happening, earthquakes and this the precipitate Haitian, the rain, the fire coming down the thunder. So you have this people situation where we have captured at Gobekli Tepe Bay, the Catas, trophy that was going on and how they were trying to reconstruct in. I think I don't want to say that gave up for whatever reason that it's probably just so much. They end up covering the whole thing artificially maybe they intended to go back to it, maybe for pasta,
darity. I don't know what they're thinking was. We could speculate about that, but. Tying him with what you were just asking go: Beckley Tempeh is not tied to a some other later civilization, as is dynastic Egypt. So there's not a lot of dogma involved correct it's a dog when there is involved. How sophisticated is, is Qubec, Pepe, and you know those that was up all the standard story saying well yeah, it's pretty, but it's not that sophisticated user dismissive data there is this hunter gatherers yeah that not Hunter gathers and they say all hunter gatherers are there by primitive and therefore they you know they just try a wave, their arms and say it's sort of like saying it's normally, but now
much anomaly, so we don't need to really worry about they've. Only correct me if I'm wrong they've only uncovered is very small, very small, fragment of it yeah very, very small fry. This is an enormous stress. I normally structure in in that picture. That's ops will describe for those that don't see the picture all, but there's just like this in my book, forgotten civilization fact. I think that's right out of my book probably are very similar to what you can see a pillar in the back on the left. You see how that was knocked down. Anas propped up and it is been put back into position and they built these crude walls against it before they buried the whole thing. So this whole site underwent dramatic catastrophe was being put together quickly again and then prop Friday, animals as well. There still yeah there's one right: there is a beautiful the serve. I called a feed line, Sir
Feline going down and they had a car of the stone around. That's right drives right, carbon it to write so much more complicated, a bunch more complicated in when they were when they were carving these originally taking them out the quarry to get say. Fifteen ten pillars, we're looking. Oh, we are are so beautiful love that now, if you saw that in a museum of modern art. It could fit right in Walla. Two points are just want to make before I get them one when you're carving these pillars to get ten or fifteen ton pillar like that finalized, you have to carve a much bigger chunk of rock in issue way because of course, you have to leave the rock where you're going have the animal you have to leave the rock because they're not in sizing these end the carving them in relief. So that's a lot more complicated cut away, all the rock etc. So this is an incredible technological feat, also off the
and this one. If you look at that one, you see how it's got weather pig pig, fix and whatnot. But you also see the weathered surface. I'm going to chill will geology here. That is older, killer. That was being reused at the end of the last ice age. I believe so. Some of these structures actually go back earlier and before Klaus Pit passed away. Unexpectedly. He was talking about this too, that even there they were. Maybe you re using some structures that were a little bit earlier, or maybe several one thousand years earlier. So this goes back the origins of get back late, Epe MEG, go back thousands of years earlier, when all said and done once we get the evidence in well into the end of the last ice age, stuffed about nine thousand seven hundred BC. I was going to say, b I forget it lot going on here off the record course. They would never admit to this, but off
record spoken to archaeologists when they're in a giddy mood in our own yeah and asked him well. If you just found say that animal on the go. Beckley Tempe, a pillar in isolation or you just found one of these pillars are part of when in isolation. You were just looking at. How do you think it would be? And I've heard the answer, six hundred BC, one thousand BC based on the technology, the technological finesse, the beauty of the carving, not nine thousand years earlier, right, yeah, but but never say that on the record right right, right, yeah, because it's so complicate yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah and then, but I've had to say that will fight they just found say that little feline type thing on the side of the pillar just broken off in just in isolation. That probably say one told me, you know- maybe it's one thousand bc at most yeah most. But
nine thousand seven hundred BC or whatever that's crazy- alright. Have the identified the quarries were these stones yeah some of them happen and they're not super far away? Is the climate you're? Bit more, I mean it's there's limestone around there, and so it's not a situation as you have in Peru, for instance, where they're dragging this stuff. You know 10s of kilometers away, but I don't think that detracts for no, no! No! What they were doing it searched. Yes, still crazy, and you know- it's easy for me to say this, but once you've queried a block if you're moving a kilometer is not that much harder to move at ten kilometers. It just takes more effort, but the same technology. It's really sorry, it be able to move it to begin with and then be able to carve it into this beautiful structures, and something I want to point out To- is that a lot of times when I talk about Qubec Le Cafe I'll make the comment about Stonehenge.
Because people are familiar with Stonehenge but Stonehenge When you look at the box there there's so much cruder yeah, then what we have at the Beckley Taipei and about compactly Tappeh Stone pillars, the central once particularly they are so beautifully carp. But if you look at them they're also very, very thin and their smallest dimension there, you can see it how thin edition that, once Anthropromorphic with the belt and the hands and that sure looks like some people would say, metal buckle on it so that's very similar to like those eastern is very similar to Easter Island. I think there are definite connections there, but why shouldn't there be? We were just talking about rongo, rongo and hours two ago and how they were seeing similar things in the sky, but I wanted to
turn out that when you carve a pillar like that, that's so thin and narrow, that's much more difficult to keep it from snapping to keep it from breaking. Also, if you see and that pillar how it said into the bedrock it said and just literally, very, very the shallow. They set into the bedrock. Klaus Schmidt comment it to Maine that, and he published this too that they seem to be used in some kind of concrete or cement to help set them into the bedrock which is untold up at such a early period when he first was excavating them before he got down to the bottom. I think he said this to me per boy. He estimated that about one slash three at least one slash three of the pillar should be set into the bedrock just to hold it up. Prop it up, not just on the order of centimeters as
you find, is this a sturdy construction like? No, I touch it. No, no! You can't touch it now. They won't fall over touch it and it probably would fall over. They have to do all kinds of supports on it. Now mice suspicion is that initially, it was not roofed over there that they were free standing pillars and they were very, very carefully set and balanced, and everything was in perfect order. This is total speculation, but like many of the obelisks and whatnot, they may have even had a viper mission to them. They may purposefully vibrated or picked up some kind of frequency and see their hollow yeah how shallow it is, but they were finely tuned whatever you I call that and I'm not trying to claim it some kind of weird machine, as some people have called speculated, but I think there's something there an residence. An audio cue
audio. Frequencies are historically very important in both. Modern structures. Usually you thing of his religious. But you know your mental thinking abilities that type of thing, so something may have been going on there with that. This may also be why they broke so usually during the catastrophe take easily was a huge catastrophe e, but they were trying to aria rectum. What is the time line in terms of like the total uncovering of that site Owen Modern times me know what we're trying to do like how much time do you think that's going to take for them to completely uncover? So if they do it carefully century century, it could be. It's a huge seitan and Klaus Schmidt when Katie and I were there- I think he waved his arms and he talked about how there's all these other hills out there that probably have more under them.
I mean you're talking huge complex and we know that in some cases 'cause you see little fragments sticking up and that type of thing and also re member. When you're doing geology, I have training in archaeology. Despite what's on my creek swim, say when you're doing archeology it's inherently destructive because you can't put it back together. So if you don't do it carefully, you don't do it right, you're destroying evidence, you are inherently destroying evidence, so a lot of people nowadays, professionals they don't want to excavate and tire site at one time they want to leave parts on excavated so that other people have a go at it. As you develop new technology, you can apply that to a different part of the site. Plush practical things. This is in Turkey, it's close to the syrian border
and we know how the political situation there is with islamic state etc. They would love to destroy this site, I'm sure. Clearly, it's very close to Urfan, which is the city of Abraham, it's a very sacred holy site for June, He Christianity, but more than anything else, Islam than anything else just outside like half hour drive by taxi from Irfa in Urfu. You have the sacred cave of Abraham. You have the pools of Abraham. You have a big mosque there and You bring this all up, because this is very ancient city when they excavate activations, but say they build a new road. Are they do a build a new underground garage? They often hit twice thousand year old or thereabouts remains
there's this beautiful statue called for man, which is now in the museum and five which also house just lots of artifacts from Quebec, Lee Teppei, and it was found home right near the modern pools of Abraham when they were doing some construction project, but it represents an image of, The people supposedly are at least it's an image of a man. Are person that dates back to the Beckley Tempe Times it's about full size about the same size as me, unlike in legs. Very similar actually has a lot of comparisons to arm the multi on Easter Island. Get a picture this I think we do. I think we do well look on his caepio. People looking staring at you with the city and eyes and he he is from Qubec Lee Teppei time, but he was found in Urfu, an your dog
Do it we're not going to do it, but if you could just wipe out the modern city and excavate their? Who knows what you would find potentially urfan. This is me speaking, is one of the oldest and inhabit. Cities on earth, I'm going back to the Late ICE age. Well, this is something that goes on in Mexico City as well, right, yeah, sure, building apartment building when you hit all kinds of things and you hit all kinds of things in an aztec Temple and in Cairo in other parts of Egypt. There are families that lived for centuries because their little huts or the community was on the top of ancient ruins, would dig in their basement and pull out a gold statuette or whatever sell it and eat for the next six months, so is this urfan place? Is there any consideration to like picking isolated spa?
Watson starting to dig and well yeah. I think there's some consideration on the part of archaeologist in turkish government that type of thing, but you've also got a very strong religious allomancy religion place into all of this, of course, and also We don't necessarily want to destroy Ankh Islamic Temple, say islamic mosque, I should say a mass that goes back to I don't know, I'm just making this up. Eight hundred ad or something to excavate something that's of two thousand and two thousand years older or ten thousand years older or more. I mean you again. On the one hand which in my more interested it it might be one versus the other, but other people are interested in the other see I mean there's all these factors that play into it, so it gets very complicated, very messy and then, of course, you have. The situation in this ties in where you know. I know Christian,
is there more interested in the birth of Jesus and where the manger is, and we can see in Egypt of ones interested to suppose it place where the holy family stayed when Jesus went to Egypt. You know whatever and you can see things like that in Urfu for Abraham and whatnot, and how do you respect that with, But also excavate, underneath some people would say excavating underneath is sacrilege, is to yell their main interest is yes, it gets very, very complicated. I bet Ph Ds in Egypt, one in particular Tell you a quick actor, I'm seeing there having breakfast. This was in the 1990s and it was in a hotel where it's overlooked. In the pyramid and sphinx. So I'm looking out them nice having nice breakfast that guy comes down sits with me joins with me starts. Making conversation turns out. He said
Cairo University Economics. I think professor of economics or whatnot, and he starts telling me 'cause. It's obvious, some, not itchy. Should have Paracin, and why am I there? I'm staying the pyramids sphinx and he starts telling me his opinion of all this. That pyramids should be dismantled. Get rid of the sphinx. Don't need any of that. You use those raw materials on site to build a covered over air, conditioned shopping, mall bigger than the one in do by in that what really benefit Egypt, economically and otherwise, who said this? He was self professed order at Carl University. I mean, I don't know his name, but I have no was genuine and real and it didn't laugh or anything 'cause.
He was serious. It mean anything to him. Dynastic Egyptians lot. Egyptians do. It means something to them, but there's a lot of Egyptians in Egypt there, Muslim If it's pre Muslim, it's not a big deal. If it's pre Arab, it's not a big deal because they're Arabs, they, my I have been in Egypt for over one thousand years, but the Nate Egyptians is not there, culture culture, but it's not think about. America, how many native american mounds and raves and whatnot get bulldozed over with that may be the most preliminary archaeological salvage, happy moral or a new development. No, it's the same thing. It's the same thing. We think it
really crazy when someone like that would say that about the pyramids and sphinx, you know 'cause, everyone knows about them, but from his perspective, if I quit it, he could have turned around said well, look what you do in your country. Will someone human nature across the yeah when they're inconsiderate, to do something along those lines, so my point is not really to criticise him. He had very different perspective. I don't agree with that perspective right. But I could understand where he was coming from. He wasn't coming. Wasn't some crazy. He didn't strike me some crazy fundamentalists or anything like that. He was just thinking in different terms and for him and he's not the only one I've spoken to, who take that perspective? Now others will say we have to save all these, but not ness
early, because they could care less about pyramids and sphinx, sphinxes and tombs, but because they're good for the economy, It brings in tourism, but then there's the cow counter argument, which I've heard many times that Egypt has to separate itself from tourism. So you cut off the nipple, yes because I've add Egyptian say to me and no one search in terms and and dumb, or anything but point out that, depending on how you count it, you know twenty five percent to sixty percent or more of the egyptian economy could be based on tourism, because it's not just the direct tourism, but it's those that supply the people who deal with the tour. Etc, etc, and when you have a situation that you have something happen in the Middle EAST could be far from Egypt Okay, excited the Americans. All of a sudden tell me Cinkota Egypt, it's dangerous to go to chip because something happened in Syria. That's what I heard and it has nothing.
Did you know, but I think if our country and our economy was depended upon, tourism solely are right now, not solely by a major portion of was tourism and then so something happens in Brazil and all the because something happened in Brazil. No tourists are coming to America and it cripples our economy I can understand that perspective. I can completely understand the perspective. What is the perspective in Turkey when they're dealing with the Quebec, Lee, Tapi and date? Well, I say, gets mixed too. I mean, I think, they're in Turkey on recently. From my perspective, you've got more more rise of, should we say radical Islam and fundamentalism. That doesn't really wild worry about such things, but you also have people who seek a Beckley Tempeh as Patel, actually someday vine,
the sphinx in pyramids for tourist dollars and for a destination in turkish wonderful, my opinion. I I both Turkey and Egypt, Egypt just to visit them to travel through them that type of thing, the country. You have to know what you're doing but people travel with me. I know what I'm doing. I don't mean that nasty wave and I will not take risks I'll, take risk for myself and I I say been on the wrong end of a gun. I said, hurt yeah but happen all the worst was Pakistan, but that's the what we do in Pakistan. I was collecting fossils. This is where I was a graduate student at one point arm. I was accused of carrying plastic plastic explosives and all the sun had four uh AK. Forty sevens. On my point, I felt yeah they were side, and I know enough. Not small arms, these were loaded in cocked and I mean their finger,
we're on the triggers now in the trigger guards. Yeah yeah, it turns out. I didn't, have plastic explosive and you know I'm a mild mannered guy- and I said you whatever you wanted. I didn't do anything wrong and I explained- and I was care- back then bricks, little of oil based clay that I cast have the texture and feel of some. Next month, so stay with us. We would use these when we collected fossils and you find a bunch of fragments to proper up and put into position as you glue them together, dial explaining that yeah yeah. I had to explain all that and one came from the Pakistan Geological survey explained that United really was who I was. But you know it's a situation where people get excited and that was back in the back.
Not all days of you know, I don't know if it's any better in Pakistan now but yeah there tough situations, but if you know how to behave- and you know how deal with it, you know how to avoid it Ok an right now, I would say Egypt is very, very safe. It really is people have all kinds of misconceptions about Egypt Turkey. We were trying to talk about Turkey. Turkey may be going the other route a little bit, I'm being very honest, but I have problem going with Turkey and I have no problem taking people to Turkey, but at this there are certain areas I might avoid just to be on the safest of safest little more slippery yeah, but I would never danger anyone else. In fact, I always err on the side of safety when it comes to
do you want AUS arm, not that I want take great risks with myself either, but you know sometimes, as a geologist yeah I have. I feel I have to do I have to do. Do you have any plans on releasing this theory of coronal mass ejections and all the things that we talked about today into something like a documentary, something I already a little bit more and I would love to do a documentary, something that Anthony Western. I we're often talking bout documentary. We also would like to do a film, a full length feature film if we could get back in and whatnot, so How should I say, semi popular rise to you know semi fictionalized, but always based on real science, real data, real evidence, so yeah I've seen so many films where they're about geological catastrophes, whether it's huge, asteroids, hitting or yeah San Andreas fault in there so faked yeah but 'cause. It's not real. What what really
happens? Not really what happened and what I'm saying is what has happened. In the past and what really will happen in the future if we get hit again, which I hate to say this, but from a geological perspective there is no doubt these things are unavoidable, it would be like saying, will ever have. Another volcanic eruption are earthquake again course will, of course we will so it's better to be aware of it and prepare for it. So, yeah I'd love to do a good film this is not feel like a film would be something that would really catch on if you could help us well negative people. Maybe that would be excellent. I'm serious! I'm serious this is something that Katie and I Katie for those that just tuned in Katie's my wife, and do yeah. I think you heard when we were talking before she has some background and yeah. She was a dancer in entertainment, Broadway, but
film connections. We really need filled connection, put it out there for contact information. If someone is in that, if someone would like to hold of you absolutely The best way to get ahold of me would be through my website, www dot, robertshocksch so CH is how the last name spelt dot, com or fake email me directly, and this is on the website careful with this thing you given, I know what should I do got the email contacts. There we go that the my wife is it to my left here and she said the contact page now move she set, the contact page, they say too much. No, no you're good Ok, so if people go to www dot, Robert dot com and then go to the contact page they'll gay, my contact information there. I think we have a fairly direct way to contact me. I've also belief got my business address their Boston University address,
because I really am at Boston University, full time, tenured faculty member and I I'm interested if people want to contact me about film if they want to go to each with me, I do tours periodically I'll range, something if people have enough if they want a private if they have enough people that would want to come to make it viable or these things cost money. Actually, if I were independently wealthy, maybe I just take people for fun right at my expense, but I just don't have that well hi to you. You have stimulated a lot of people have magic, and I mention one more thing that chamber the chamber under the pod, the sphinx for order century. Now I want to continue the serious research on that I have text in Egypt. I've talked to the Ministry of Antiquities, the actually directory. I guess he is of
the grand egyptian Museum, the New museum. I think we could make inroads there to. Actually, lower that if someone has money or interest in that the problem listen, I must say this bluntly, a lot of people. So why don't you just raise money by crowdfunding? Doesn't work for Egypt. You have to have the money up front. They don't want crowdfunding type So that's another thing. So my point is that there's film project love to pursue, there's research love to pursue. That's why we've set up the Oracle of the not for profit to do this all right in legitimately. That's why I'm saying up the institute at b? U the ship for this study of the origins of civilization, so long, other possibilities, and I'm hoping we can make some of this happen. I'm hoping we can to a really appreciate you being here man. It was really awesome to talk to you and you blew my mind. This whole theories.
It scares the out of me, but it also it's very exciting. Well, thank you. Thank you and again, I I'm not trying to scare anyone, but I think we have to be real and we have to be realistic and there's no point in hiding in your closing your and it's just an awesome theory- I mean it's very cool. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Right says John. Thank you, everybody into the podcast and thank you to our sponsors, thank you to the cash app download the cash app for free and to the reward so Joe Rogan you receive five dollars in the cash app will send five doll to Justin Wren's fight for the forgotten charity. Thank you all go to Legalzoom Legalzoom, extending their friends and family discount right now. Just use the offer code Rogan in the promo box at checkout for a limited time, and you can save ten percent right now: Legalzoom dot com with the promo code, Rogan Legalzoom,
where life meets legal and that's it damn, because amazing, I'm a huge fan of that man in uh. What he's done too sort of a a lumen eight, the the holes in the gaps in the human history? In these ancient structures in- ancient building sites, amazing amazing stuff- and I I swear- I will go to Egypt with him one day, just not right now. Alright. Thank you. Everybody for tune, appreciate the fuck other guys and that's it back,
Transcript generated on 2019-10-05.