Ladies and gentlemen, how are you Toronto said this before, but I I keep saying it because it's a big deal we're moving the venue Toronto on September 29th. I was supposed to be at the Ricoh Coliseum, there's a strike there. There's union strike we're not going to cross the picket line instead we're moving the show too the Scotia bank arena used to be the AIR Canada Centre? It's also a venue it's the same union, but we're not breaking any union agreements or crossing any picket lines we just moving to a new venue. The good thing is more tickets will be available now, because this is a bigger place. It's bigger by. I think one thousand two hundred seats so, well, the old place is sold out, but the new place one thousand two hundred c it will be available, but they won't be available until everybody who had tickets

the original show. Make sure the or they have to make sure that you get your tickets for this place, going to sort everything out, everything is good. Still coming to Toronto, and that's September 29th The thing that I have available is September 14th or damn young jamie- that she it's close that's only two weeks and that is Schottenstein Schottenstein. Damn. How do I keep getting it wrong? time this change it Schottenstein arena um which is September 14th, very excited about that and there's not many tickets left for that. So that's September 14th in Columbus, Mutherfucking, Ohio, okay, okay, very excited about those shows that we're going to have a good time and then that's it once those are done the

it's basically just a little bit before my Netflix special comes out. I don't think they have announced that I don't know if I'm not even supposed to be saying it, but when that comes out, that's it I'm not! I'm not torn for awhile. I have to write new jokes write, new Witcher and duck all the people that are mad at me. This episode of the Mutherfucking podcast is brought to you by square space. Square space is the host of my website. If you go to websquarespace dot com, if you want to Rogan COM, that is the square space website square Squarespace is what it is is a company. It's a website that allows you to make websites and they've really got down to a very simple easy to use form that any norm, person like myself could build a badass website. Each one of them comes free online store, and you free domain name, if you sign up for a year- and it's

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Wells for the pygmies in the Congo, my goodness hump. May so amazing, amazing. We are also brought to you by Legalzoom. And gentleman most Americans do not have a will why why don't you have a will? Well, it's not like it used to be. We had find and pay a trustworthy attorney by the hour to draft your will fact that right you gotta, go there, make an appointment. Talk to his lawyer. Make sure they do job you don't do that anymore. Today, over one million people have used Legalzoom for their estate planning needs because Zoom makes it easy to create your own. This is the last week of national make a will month, but don't worry actually the first week of young Jamies awesome month. Isn't it z

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We have to worry about a lawyers expensive billable hours, adding up you make things easier, on your family, when you're gone, if you have a will or living trust, do it for check out. Legalzoom's last will and living trust estate plans right now during the final week. Of national make a will month at Legalzoom, dot, com and Steve special savings be sure to end, the promo code Rogan in the Referral box at Checkout Legalzoom, where life meets Legallegalzoom dot com, my friends My guest today is a mental list. Um he's, I don't think he calls himself a magician, but he definitely knows how to do that stuff to his name is banachek. I met him years ago, Duncan Trussell, and I met him on that

and show that I did for Sci Fi Joe Rogan questions everything and uh. The dude is a fucking wizard with forks that comes at the end and unfortunately you're going to watch. If you're going to listen to this and you don't watch it. You're not going to be able to see what he does but twisting up these force. It's uh In fact, these things are in front of me right now I mean spoiler alert for you 'cause. This is the beginning of the podcast Banacek really is he he's really interesting because he could he can fuck you up right, he could lie to you and tell you that he's got some amazing powers and you probably believe it, because he oh good at it, but instead he's pretty ad and about being very honest about what he's doing or how the fact that he's using tech, Meeks and that he doesn't have any magical, psychic abilities- and we got into his whole history and how he got started into the stuff and really

really really interesting, intense guy, so please give it up for Banachek the Joe Rogan experience, I am wonderful who had wonderful, chat off stage yeah, but I would love to have had that on him and I just can no no I've known. I would never want to do that to you no idea yeah, and I would want to do that too yeah yeah, so this man is great to see again, it's going to see you again been awhile yeah, we wanna know we ran into each other. Once in Mandalay Bay are men with a random eye candy. I think

it's called. I turn around and you turn around and we made eye contact and eye candy that was along time ago. Yeah. It had to be about probably five years ago for dinner. I know we talked about doing a podcast back then even yeah, I'm glad we finally got together and did it. Let me too it's going to be fun. You did that tv show that I did a long time ago, Joe Rogan questions everything, and you blew me away you and me and Duncan, and you showed us all the tricks that people you well, you didn't. You showed us that they were tricks, but you didn't show us how to do the trick one thing down for you, but that was about. It was a psychological thing 'cause. I use that thing right. It's better to know that you can be fooled rather than tell you how you can be fooled and will get into this about with scientists and how I fold them in a little bit. But people always tell me why don't you just teach Para psychologist the tricks and the problem is, is for every single trick that I have. I probably have about seven or eight methods. So

I teach you one method, Joe somebody else will come along and maybe a method of bendochy they'll. Do it completely different, convince the way and you'll be looking for that. One method- and you may say, because you don't have the experience you may say all this has to be real. I know how the tricks done, they're not doing that they are actually doing something completely different. This has to be real it's better to get an expert. Let me ask you this one, because my friend Eddie was at Venice Beach, and this guy was doing. Ads, like some save the rainforest thing, and he said, if I tell you your birthday will, will you listen to me and and donate some money or something like right, and he goes okay, and just goes may 15th right straight out like that yeah, I just figured it out there MIKE. How could someone do that? I, I can't tell you, because I was in there there there could have been other

circumstances. They could've been something over her and they could be something he seen he may have been in the store when the guy took his driver's license that they that this could be it there's a million things that could have happened that your friend and he was not aware of before that guy even walked up to him. So I can't. I really can't answer that because it's circumstantial and here's the other thing is Eddie, really remember everything exactly the way that it was. You know as he forgotten something and left something out in that story, because he's told it so many times usually is a thing right when people want to. To convince you or something they embellish and the more times. I tell that story that embellishment becomes their reality. They basically create. A whole new reality for themselves that they forget that, maybe they wrote it down, they forget that maybe they said something they forget. That that person might ask specific questions. You might have said yeah. I get the feeling that you, we're not born in the beginning of the year, maybe later in the year, maybe in the fall or something like that person says. No,

little bit, I am bought land even yet now you know it's the winter time. So now you get within a few months right there, so there's always within mentalism, which is what I am in mental list and will explain what that is in it. But there are ways to do those things and there's many ways to do those type of things. So without being there. I can't tell you exactly what your friend Eddie experienced to him. It was very, very real. You don't believe in any psychic power, I've, that's fair to say, ok, it's fair to say, but if you just say it that way, it sounds very cold. It kind of like Anasol, I'm a dick, I'm, not I'm a skeptic dick in a wait. Why can't? Because it means I'm not haven't been open minded I'm very open minded about these things and whenever I investigating new phenomena I opened I step back. I put thing that I I think that hey it's not real. I put that aside and go. This could be the one I'm going to give him chance, but I'm going to look at it. Going to be a little bit sceptical. I am

Do you know double blind test? I am going to step back and look at it from a scientific point of view. I'm not going to be open about this and I'm not going to let them get away with something, and I also know they may be self deceived and I've seen so much of this type of phenomena that I usually know what's going on. When I do see it so I can honestly say that I've seen so much phenomena and I've looked at so much of it and I seen the best people out there and I've tested some of the best people out there that I have not seen anything indicative that psychic phenomena is genuine. Have you ever heard of anyone? who is reasonably believable that is, seen anything that counts. I think you hear that all the time right when you see a John Edward on TV or you hear these these anecdotes and stuff like that, and it's just like you telling me about Eddie. So you tell That sounds like all. While that person could be really psychic right, but I know that there's probably more going on when that person. Well, I'm glad you answered the way you answered to that does make a lot of sense. That yeah, you do

We tell stories and people do forget how the story actually went. Human memory is very full absolutely that's why we can change a person's memory. You know there's been plenty of experiments that have done on that. If you take a certain group of Paul I can't. Member name is it's it's not coming to me. I'm. I have Dyslexia s as well, which is really weird when you see what I do on stage, because I work with numbers. I work with names. I use a lot of the monex for these things, so I really part time recalling names and books I read and stuff like that. I just it's really hard to come to me, but it takes a while for those things become sexier work like what does it does? I always thought that, like switch things up, a girl I dated in high school had It does switch things around it's one of those things like if I'm working with numbers. I can't I don't even I think what it is is I got so disappointed with numbers when I was young. I love them, but I love the fact that every in the world is numbers. I love the idea of numbers of what what they do, but I When I was young, I would get so frustrated. Even

high school. I a n n in a middle school. I would do math problems, but I would figure out a way that worked for me to do the math problem and then the teacher would come out this. Like show you work and I would put it down and they say no, that's wrong, but I got the right answer yeah, but that's not the way we do it. You need to do. This way and the normal way of doing things with extremely difficult for myself. So I give it is what it does, which is which is numbers around you know and if you try to which carried around and that it'll switch letters for me all use words that of the wrong which, like I could be talking to you during this podcast and then I'll listen to the podcasts, and I go oh, my god. Why did I use that word? oh. I had a thing where I'll give you an example of the type of things that happen to me: have a line. When I say in some of my shows where I say I read thoughts, not mines. What I mean by that husband and wife singing a park bench pretty girl goes jogging by husband, turns his head and looks wife slaps and in the face we know what the husband was thinking. We know what the wife was thinking right. We haven't read their mind,

but we do know what their thoughts are sort of that body language and I remember one time doing this for skeptics Group I was on stage and I was like husband and wife singing a park bench. Pretty girl walks my husband slaps, the wife in the face, so I said exactly the opposite of the way and they just thought it was a joke like I thought I was being stupid and just just a joke right, but I do that kind of stuff consistently and I have a really hot like if you say Sir already will do that yeah, the only really bad for me like I do. I do it consistently. You'll you'll you'll talk about things an I hear. You talk about things and you'll use words that I actually We know what the word means, but if I wanted to recall that word and use it cannot remember it, but what's the mechanism What is happening in your mind where it's, which is things right? I thank all it dyslexia. I don't know I I I I I don't know for me. It's

for me, it's just called the selective me. It's the effect, and it's really fuckedup were great. With the selected to use Dyslexia like when they come up with a better word for that right, I mean it's horrible, or this is really hard for dyslexics. Its weight is with all that stuff, but it's like I got a lisp, it there's an s in there. It's like Why? What so? So you is there anybody that, like I mean there's the James Randi challenge right, I famously where which I was in charge of the million dollars, and I tested many cycles for I I'm. I guess what I should do is put you in charge of it. How so yeah? Well, let's go back to my beginning. So you understand how I got here on this journey of it: okay so all right and I'll talk about a couple of personal things in the very beginning, so I was born in one thousand nine hundred and sixty so I'm fifty eight years old, So here and I was born in England, left there and came to the United States, my mom divorced, my dad in that year went back to the to England and I'm give

you this. You understand where I'm coming from and how I got on this journey ah she had two kids. We immigrated to South Africa in one thousand nine hundred and sixty nine. She abandoned me in South Africa that time with my two brothers here in three years old we had a stepfather was an alcoholic. We saw it and maybe on Sunday's. Maybe if I draw him from the car in the house, we would see him then changing diapers. I was taking care of my brothers and so forth, wow I was there until I was fifteen years old now. It was during that time that I heard a guy, but I'm early gallon, who was a famous psychic and he's the first one to claim that he could actually bend objects with his mind. Like silver Ware, I became really famous friend he was supposedly they did, to limit Standard Stanford research. It standard, Stanford, Stanford Research Institute and he was using that sort of as an endorsement to say that he was genuine and one of the things gala did was he said. If you bring metal objects to the radio, you can get them to bend as well. So

I mean think about my radio to to yeah, so it was already there on the radio. It was no use talking with those notes in there at the time they had Springbok tv, they didn't have the actual station, but they were putting it up and they have tv's in the store at the time, but they were playing Popeye Vhs movies back then you know on the way, however, they played it back. Then, but no tv station. So that was the thing everybody there listen to the radio and he's like. If you bring it to the radio, you can do it with the unleashed powers. He mind, you can get minimum, and so I went around the house. I found a little pin in my mom's old sewing said, is a cat and I held up and I looked at it- the staff at a concentrated on it and it bent well on a micro level. At least I thought it bent. So I convinced myself that it had minutely another years later, but in my mind I had got that to happen,

from there. I went to Australia to go be with my biological dad and from there to Colorado it was while I was in Colorado that I picked up a book by James, the amazing Randi, and that book said the truth about your ago. In fact, the book was change. The name was changes later to the truth, about your the truth of your a gala from the magic of your a gala and that book. Basically said that Irri was a magician posing as a psychic and no adult had ever told me that before all the adults that I did know they believed in early. So I believed in his one I'll edit valuable lesson just because people in a position or authority, because they're adults, older than you, doesn't make every They say correct, which I learned it. Let it that way

keep in mind. I was really socially inept because I was always taking care of my brothers. I had no free time, so I wasn't hanging out with other kids. I wasn't doing those things. I had a great life, don't get me wrong. I had a really great life in South Africa. I did stupid stuff like jumping off bridges into trains this week and get apples, so we would have apples to eat at home and stuff like that jump off the train. Take it home, so those who Things are great times actually believe, even though it sounds like it's really sad, it's not so I read this book and in the book Randy sort of mentions alludes to a method for bending a nail, and so I pick I got some nails. I study creating my own ways, I'm sort of a problem solver. I can you give me something you want to do and I can go ahead and figure out a way to do it's. Why work for people like Criss Angel in you know David Blaine, open a second tv special with one of my fax and on the this person be buried alive, six feet on the ground chained and hand cuffed in a coffin and dig my way to the surface which I've done twice and almost died twice doing that, but anyway, getting back on track

so we'll get back to that later yeah? So I wrote here about that. So I wrote just gloss over so I'll gloss over a whole bunch of things like that. I've done crazy, crazy stuff. Where I should be dead. I look back now and I go. I am really the light I mean, even when I was a kid I was crawling down just just just to do it. I look at the top story window and I go. I think, I'm falling down that drain pipe. I think I can do it upside down and I would actually climb upside down using my feet to keep myself up there on down the drain, pipe that to get outside a lot. Dumb, dumb, dumb stuff arm. So I was in high school and I study create methods for obtaining still for so much so that all the kids there went to plastics out in that school. I she went to plastics awakens all the kids in there were bringing all the silver ware to me. So we're getting low and silver ware They went to plastic self aware I got in trouble. You're bending the silver ware with your mind. Is that what you're saying well, I was making it using the fact I was using tricks to make it look like I was bending it with my money. I was crazy. I was basically doing what Gallo is doing. Only the difference was

I didn't realize it, but until I saw yellow I was, I've, seen yellow work just heard about him on the radio- and I heard you're supposed to see the metal band so in my mind the effects that I created to bend metal, you actually saw the forks in the spoons and bending and if you see any magician working today more than likely they're, using a couple of my techniques to make metal. Look like it's actually bending I even figure a way to make the school bell go off, so we can get out of school early. I got suspended for that. Why did you do that, because I could know how? How did you do that? there was. There was a wire and there was a short that goes through this one class. When I was in and I was able, figure out how to exactly how to get that short to work said. The bill would go off an we out of school, that it was just connecting the two and it's like that. You can connect you connect and it goes off, and so it was like. Ok, this is great and go with

walk up on the wall. If you look at the clock, I realize that, as the clock the hand goes around all the way around it looks like it's slowing down when it comes back up. It's not it's just an optical illusion from one side, so I would make kids thing that I was making the clock slow down and I figured away on an old time. Timex watch that I used to be aware that if I pull the stem out- and slowly turned it backwards and pushed it. In the second hand, would keep moving for about thirty five seconds and then it would just start like going click, click, click and then it would stop so I could put my watch in somebody's hand, so I come up with all these different methods for accomplishing all these different feats. I started learning how to do a thing called muscle reading, which we can talk about in a little bit muscle reading yeah, it's like if it's an old old technique that nobody uses- and I was really surprised that people would not use

but it was really really popular back in the late 1800s, where, if you, if I take your wrist and it's based on the idiom motor response, if I take your wrist- and I tell you, look at my other hand- and I want you to imagine it actually touching an object. Think of one of these objects- five objects on a table- I think, in my hand, actually touching it and I move my left hand like which you're not holding here. Actually I'm holding with you with my right hand, but I'm moving your hand in sync with it. With your thinking go to the left to the left to the left, I can actually feel the resistance when I go to the right. Your arm, so you give off this this. This thing that lets me know exact way to go and press send it with his check. You would hide the check and before that pull guard, did it with his check and I've done it with my check when I do shows in the past where they can hide your check anywhere in the theater. You take somebody's head Can you tell I'm thinking my other hand? They have to know where the objects hidden and think of that hand. Actually going

and touching it, and you can actually find the object so when a lot of muscle, reading back in those words on everybody. What about when you get some stone cold cycle path that now they they they have to really truly be thinking it and wanting it to happen, and that's why I re frame it in the aspect of a you see me. Do things with my mind. I want you to try to do something with your mind. Will this hand to actually touch that object, so they do and they don't realize that subtly they're pushing and pulling you in the right direction and you can even say don't pull me in the direction. Let me pull you, but you're still pulling and pushing with them, and you can find the actual object. So I wrote a book on it. It's called psycho physiological thought reading. Psycho physiological is illogical. Reading about reading the gym, which is my emitting, I didn't mean that what I did was it: we call it muscle, reading in the business and in the This yeah and I started looking at some of the older terms for it, and I found that term psycho physiological thought rating. I thought that's a great name for the book, because every book I've written

on mentalism can I write books that teach people an video. I have they all start with a p series yeah, so it's all I've talked to you know. I've talked to Penn about MAGIC, in about illusions and he's funny about it and he laughs and says it's all lies and bullshit, and he makes- it's fun, but the way you described it it became a little bit more compelling because you're seemingly obsessed with it, like obviously as good as you got at becoming mentalist, like you. You had to like even the way that you rattle off things. You there's very little pause to you. You stop and start and I talk too fast, I know everybody says you talk way too fast fast. You just talk fast yeah, I mean I can hear you it's very clear, but that's all so what I noticed when you were doing the reading, when we did it in front of the crowd of people and you were able to pick out

Things addresses of right didn't make the air because it didn't fit the format. We should have enough time, one of the thing. So what what you? What Joe's talking about is there's a part in the show where I ask people just to think of things and then I start getting initials, and then I get names and then I get yeah you're you're. Actually thinking about your grandmother and how you went on a bike ride with her or through certain forest and went to Lake Won, Pope back in the birth date is this and that and I get a birthday freaking out yeah there yeah yeah the freak, but with the This thing is like the they're, also overwhelmed by the fact that you never stop talking.

It's just ready go it just keeps coming on, because how do you know that? No, no don't don't worry about that, will get that the minute you know where that comes from Joe. That comes from back in my early days. I I ii form in the very beginning. Well, let's, let's get you with a story: okay, I'll get you I'll get I'll get to that to where I work the places, because that sort of comes from working in the comedy clubs and some really shitty shitty places and having to grab people's attention right so for there and I ended up writing Randy a letter just out of the blue, because I was getting a little cocky. I guess at young. You know that because I was getting away with all this stuff and wrote granny. Let us look if you ever need a kid to try to convince scientists that this stuff is real. I would be happy to someone was like come out and say it's a hoax. At the very end, I had a couple of Hypoth and one of them was at scientists lamented for years. There's no evidence of the esp on a proper scientific controls, and this is back in the eighties because a lack of funding.

It was my contention had nothing to do with funding it had to do with the scientists are going with the pro biased opinion and they would documenting their own beliefs rather than using proper science. First of all, to find out if it was even genuine, so we're not using the proper scientific method. They would basically just. I believe this is real, I'm going to get it on tape, or I'm going to get it to where I can document it. So the rest of the world going slow down where they biased towards believing that it was real or fake. No believing it was real because you don't get, usually you don't get into parapsychology unless you have an interest in it and you don't have an interest in it unless you think there's something there right do those ghost shows drive you fucking crazy yeah. They do because I know I've. Actually I've actually been called to work on a couple them behind the scenes that I always tell them. No, I can't do it and I have some friends that have worked on them behind the scenes to try to make some of the investigators freak and they're using magic tricks to get the investigators freak and the great thing about those kind of shows is you only need to do one little thing.

Something falling off the shelf, because that's all you need right, I mean it's like yeah, there's a ghost. It fell off the shelf and then they play that they play that tape over and over and over again they show a little shadow or something like that. There's nothing dumber on television, no an Itunes or smarter, and I know for a fact there are people that work behind behind the scenes at fooling those guys, when we work. I work with Chris Angel Lot, alright only days I worked with him on almost all of his episodes. I've shows over one hundred episodes of television with Chris And we every year we would do one episode. That was a silence episode that type of thing and we We brought a group of researchers in and the moment they got off. Bus. We had all this stuff set up and everything else to mess with them. The moment they got off the bus, I told my God, I said we're not using any of that. We're just going to use pure psychology with these people and that's what happened.

Because I could tell they were they were such believe soccer. Anything I suggest to them they're going to go for so let's say we have six rooms and I need this one. From to be the room that is haunted because it's a story it goes on behind it with something else. That's already been said and position or it's gonna match up much of celebrities who feel something in the room as well. All I gotta do is once going out to you feel anything so yeah. I feel a little haunting I feel this and that you know this room. I really want you to take time with that's all I have say it is like the psychics getting headaches and they just they go. They go crazy because I've already put it in their head at that point. So the stuff they come up. But it's going to be much more believable than any of the little it's that we had like hidden recordings and stuff like that, the stuff they come up with is going to be much more believable and much more of a hit. Are there any real like supernatural investigators that actually believe in ghost

or they all con people know. There's people investigators believe in it yeah absolutely it shows they must know their fucking. I think e n like now. What is it? Paranormal state was one of them. You know and- and I I think it's some of our little abusive to because they work with little kids. Sometimes they talk the kids into believing these things and and and it's just some of them a little later yeah. They look great big little creepy what they do to them, and you know they usually don't have a psychologist taking care of the people afterwards and walk them through it, and it's just it's or the psychologist. They do is also a paranormal investigator. The movies in these kind of things, and it's going to come out at a very slanted angle. So I've not in a single one of these shows that I don't look at it. Go Bullshitin just end up turning it off so yeah did they. I mean let me, but is there anybody who, like legitimately like anybody who's, a reasonable person who legitimately believes in ghosts and legit. He believes like in every

movie, every haunt horror movie Always like this one, real researcher, yeah that there are some people like Lloyd, Allebach, and you know who I know is he believes in this kind of stuff to Anne the tumor. No, it is Another tumor as far as I know he does not have it is a is a nice guy. He said I respect a lot of these guys. I get along with him and I think you have to write because you've got to be at a debate with these people. You want me to talk to them and if you show respect, they're gonna show you did you ever want to like reason with them and sort of explain why what they're doing is faulty or we we have coming up? We have conversations, you know about certain things, certain type of testing you know and and and how they met, how ridiculous some of these things are in and but you know they're going to be invents that there is something there. Even if it's a little little something like one little thing you can't quite knockout away. They could do that. I mean like when I worked with the past. So back then wash university in one thousand, nine hundred and seventy nine James S, Mcdonnell gave a half million dollars to Washington University. Alright, and that

shortly after I drop brandy that let him and now James Mcdonald, he was Mcdonald Aircraft you know the band she and all those different iba all named after spirits by the way? Yes, so if you take, if you do, your research and you'll find all these things, so he really truly believed in right in the in the afterlife and his thinking was look if they can find something. It's even psychic. That might be indicative that maybe there's an afterlife. You know at least it's indicative there's something supernatural paranormal. There are things we don't can't understand. So we gave him dollars washing university to form a a laboratory called that Mcdonald Mcdonald Laboratory for psychical research short. We called it MAC Lab Ap to fill there had an interesting parapsychology but really didn't want to get involved. But the university said: look, we want this money, we want this lab you even this kind of stuff. You know you're interested in Santa stuff and he was a physicist, so they put him in charge

uh. They had over three hundred and some applicants and out of all the I sent them a letter out of all the applicants they had. There was only two that were accepted. I mean they did some research with other people with their two that they really accept. It was myself and Another kid that I didn't know at the time by the name of Michael Edwards. And Michael turned out to be a magician as well and he also spoke to Randy. So I get a call. I said that they said, there's an associated press article that came out and that's when I wrote them and they said it would like to. I would like you to come visit. I get a call from Randy. He says you know. There's this guy at Washington University is been given half a million dollars to study psychic phenomenon like that. Can you just think of his initials? For me I said his Apiana PE said: how did you know but I've already been accepted. I was going to let you know, and he started tell me about MIKE that MIKE had already been there MIKE had been to key in their hands. They were completely convinced that this was real psych.

Phenomena, but at that point MIKE wasn't quite sure where to take it. Any new Randy was the expert at the bunker in the field, because Randy had the gallo, another psychic phenomena, so he wrote he he. He spoke with Randy on the phone and and a vote to Randy as well, and they had some conversations- and I said around us who can I trust MIKE? He says I don't know enough about him to trust them and- why can't the same concerns about me because Randy had mentioned me to him, is that you should mention you know my real name is Steven shot, so it that Stephen shot back them better check came years later, because people couldn't remember Stephen shot, all thinking remember Banacek, because the now I say here's the thing on tv, so I did a corporate gig one day, an which is good, that you say that so I did a gig one day it was a corporate gig and the guy got up he's like either, I was really in secure. You know, as we only talked about so I had my introduction, his my introduction, and he 'cause, I want to do my own introduction about you. I've seen you do different things in that, so he gets up there and he says

seen on the today show CNN live he's done. This he's done that I've seen him do in that? Please welcome Steven. What was the last name again great, so I get up. I do my gig. I can have a corporate gig that week I get upset the last guy forgot. My name, please, you know remember my name. Steven nice TV show yeah. I got it he's done this season. That is on that. Please welcome Steve it. What was the last name again holy crap? It happened to me a third time, and so I started think about. Why is this happening, and how can I fix this? Well, one way to fix it. Probably I think back now is say: hey read my thing: don't even memorize just read right, but Stephen is common name and Shaw. Is such a common name there's really no real hard syllables in the except, for maybe the t and at the VA little Bit, not really it's a soft syllable, so it kind of passes right through the brain, so they're thinking so much about every

thing else they want to say you know, CNN, live the today show this and that I've seen in their story that they want to tell everything. So by the time they get to my name, they haven't really thought about my name on memorizing So I wanted to name that had at least two hearts syllables, something that would stick in the brain, and I wanted a one word name, not a two word name, a one word name like a rapper. Yeah this is, but this is before I'm dating myself. This is real. Wrapping shores pypard that spanish, Exo Ccek right there, an I love that show he was an insurance detective and what year was that show on? I don't know. I think it was only one season right if I'm not mistaken Jamie. I don't know if you look that up or not, but I think it is asleep sitting right here season, one yeah, the complete That was a great show 'cause. He always had these great polish sayings. That meant absolutely nothing, but it was just yeah yeah, oh yeah, yeah yeah, very charismatic. In that show.

The the the way he solved. It was almost like a magic trick is like they put the statue on the truck the truck arrives and- and it goes all the way across the United States and no statute. Where did it go? It turns out that what they actually put on the truck they thought it was a statue because it was covered in it was in this crash. Right, but it was a block of ice. So by the time it got there had already been switched out by the time it got there. It had it's a sort of magic its own way as well. So it was sort of kindred spirits in a way to that. Love the name Banacek and I was like you know what, if I use banner check the way it's spelled there, they can say benisek. So I put b a n, a c h e k. I don't wanna put an extra see at the end, because then it becomes bounce, a check or something stupid like that, so yeah I get banana check. I get blown a check. You know I get all these things but at least he the a thing right, so the old timers back then the ceos of the company, the president of the company, if they remember the tv show they may make fun of me at first, but then

remember the name at the end, to show they now associate it with me. 'cause I've blown their minds. If they don't know it, they've got to come up to me How do you pronounce that so they're thinking about my name? Never had a problem since there's the old tv show Banachek with the way I spell it. Greyhound? There was a dog. There was a band called Banacek and there was a construction company. Now the construction company owned- Banacek or on the website, but they didn't do anything with it. So, and this is back before you could do automatic payments like just goes every year automatically for you, so I would sit there three years just waiting on that all every day you know and when I knew it was going to go up, and I finally got it like I get after three years of it just sitting there. I finally was able to get it yeah. So anyway, that's my name. That's how I got my name. Okay, so go back to this Michael Edwards

So MIKE it with some yeah, we yeah, we, I I I go often is really what I I do. I do this all the time I go off of so many different tangents, because I just it's so many different stories and some different directions and go sell with MIKE. And you'll find that out in my life there is so psychology applied to everyday life. For me, like the name, why did I choose my name? There was a reason for it. That said, it's not just pass it and stuff like that or it's not sometimes it's just a joke. Might you know I get really sarcastic sense human here I go off on a tangent, pointless, go back so here I am with Randy telling me about them, and I said yeah. I've already been accepted. MIKE and I are supposed to show up and by the way somebody recently bought my Barry Sonnenfeld had bought my right light life rights with because of this whole thing, which is called project out. For that. I'm telling you the story about now.

He had bought it and wanted back Allen. Sorkin to write it, but this is way back then now this is now like. Not so, okay, not a like a couple years ago. You follow me up your time. I know Erin was Erin was okay, Aren was busy, so we couldn't do it and then when he wasn't busy, Barry got busy in my life right, so what they had were basically, ran out so I've taken it now and I'm working with another production we do a series on what we're talking about right now so but anyway, so here I am I'm with MIKE Edwards. We show up at the airport in Saint Louis first I'm going to meet, we meet each other, we hit it off right away. I don't have my driver's license. I had some informal idea. I don't want to form an idea. I had some other form of id and MIKE he had his and he could drive. He just got his at the time, so one if I use my pass This whole thing: you do this. This fast talking things as part of the shuck and jive, though this is a little notice me because I understand, but it also is very effective. That's what

chuck and jive artist. Does they talk very fast and they never pause. You never get a chance to interject and there constantly going. So if they're reading Euro or saying something you have to keep up with them and part of the keeping up with them, you get a little bewildered yeah and bewildered. You forget what you've said they have said and you your trying to sort of keep pace with them and Canon next thing. You know that, oh my god, I can't believe you know that. How did you figure that out we'll get to that later and then you keep going- and you know this part the entertaining aspect of it yeah, it's not what I'm doing right now, because I'm Cesar Chavez when he was fighting, you would put a pace on you couldn't keep up with right right. Yeah. Always analyze it with fighting, which is great Well, it's kind of things vulnerabilities exploited, abilities in the human mind, and one of them is that you talk and think faster than most people. So most people when you're talking they don't have it like what you just

right there? You want to check that you get a chance enter just ahead on the left. You 'cause I'm going to keep talking and, as I keep talking talk quicker, you get bewildered. That's one of the things that you do to people, whether you realize it or not. You do it because you've done it that way, long times, probably right become a pattern. Yeah has become a pattern to make the other person feel secure as you don't they don't show up for it's a patent for me being able to think and not forget things on them like because, like as you saw effective, as you said that there is another thing, the pop I've got like all day long. I have songs in my head. It doesn't stop like I. I do this with my teeth: time playing the song to music in my head like constantly caught with fun, not thinking of anything else, I have songs in my head constantly and I've. Even I went to the dentist and I said, hey you know. I've got this thing with my teeth on tap my teeth somewhere them down. You know what's going on, and this is oh musicians. Do that all the time I go well, I always have music twenty four hours a day in my head. So but now I've gone off somewhere in there was open handwriting. So, if

look at my look, my handwriting. How bad my head handwriting, like it's really hard to freaking, read right: it's not that bad! This will be a little better today and uh read the letter some friend of sent me something. He wrote me a letter and I read his I was like well what the fuck is- that 'cause, it's just scribble, Well, that's me right so recently writing neat and some bad self load. Normally, when I write, I can't read it myself, I go back and I look well. That's the thing what you just said: you might you trying to keep up with your thoughts yeah. One of the things about bad hand. Writing they say that you're trying to keep up with what you're thinking and wondering, since you are always going a mile, a minute right thousand different ways and I think it's it might I'm solving is like when people give me ideas that they want okay. This is what I'd like to do with the magic effect. How do I do it I'm able to rattle off like ten fifteen different but way so, if directive like as a mentalist that way that that pattern of talk

king is so bewildering to people that they just sort of a a what what we have and you you've got him on the ropes always is that thing of even in my state show and you'll have to come to stage I would love to. I would love to come, but I saw the mini version of it. When you did, the television shows blown away. I mean the first. I do as I come out before I don't even answer. I myself, would you do it? So people can what they want to sign. I was just at planet, Hollywood filling for the inconvenience yeah. I've got a thing coming up right, Rochester, a fringe festival, Rochester New York. To me, I'm I'm a lot of different college. You go to my website and check dot com and look up the dates, but the Rochester There is going to be on the 13th seven PM 14th five hundred pm, then I'm on the at nine hundred pm the 22nd. Remember those three hundred pm I know. So, if you would like you to find it on the path you can't even help yourself, you can find it. You can find it on that you're going to find it on the website. So it is on the website. Yeah yeah, but you're in Vegas all the time right, I'm in Vegas

I better network Vegas that much of a really I'm busy now really until beginning in November, I'm gonna be like different places in touring on the road or in different places, some of its corporate some of its college. You know it's a mixture of a mismatch of different different things, so go back to this whole you James Randi, URI Geller. So here I am with MIKE Edwards at the airport and we're hitting it off and Everything Peter Phillips shows up he's the professor that I mentioned the minute ago, who's going to be doing the investigating his and he has this wristband on, and I'm always asking questions what's this. What's that and I'm always noticing things- and he said it was a wristband that he got from a witch doctor in Africa, that helps protect him. So I'm starting to think this might be a little easier than I thought it was going to be things going in. I was like I didn't know these guys sceptical. They could use one way mirrors. Are they going to be trying to trick us catches? I had no clue so.

Get into we. We we had beautiful if this car, because MIKE was too young to drive around Peter Phillips, has a rental is in front of us with following him, and this is this is how it all starts early hello, I'm sitting there and just kind of like me talking well the time, I'm looking around. I'm always doing something always noticing something. I look in the back seat and I notice a briefcase I reach in the back and I kind of pull it under the dash. It's locked into me like if somebody locked something it means. I don't want you inside there, of course right. But why does anyone is in there old briefcase easily can just open the lock. So I pick the locks open it up inside there's a whole bunch of silver ware. So either this guys a kleptomaniac, or this is a silver he's going to be using for the experiment. So I stop. Bending it all up lock, the briefcase put it in the back, sit there for about two more minutes open up the glove compartment, there's some extra key,

these things in the glove compartment. I start getting. Those up you bet is fuqing keys. I well I'm a psychic right this stuff. I think this should happens like what, if we need those keys again, his house yeah, but I, need to be convinced. I was Jenny genuinely right. So I end up looking over the car. These are hanging out the keys that are hanging out on the car key out of the ignition. I start to reach over to get them and might just looks at me and says I think you've done enough. Stop you know so, but there's this really interesting phenomen. Right. We knew that in the laboratory, everything we did at that point was going to be on a micro level is going to be very small because it had to be because we couldn't make it look like it's a trick. We had to look like minute and not just we didn't know if they were going to be watching as, like. I said through one way mirrors and things like that. So this is interesting phenomena at the time it was called spontaneous PK. That is stuff. That just happened. Okay, piece like you, can you speak a short of a sector conesus telekinesis site? You can use the whole thing, they're all the same thing

so there's these things just supposedly happen around these psychics that can bend metal, stuff move stuff break start that so those things with the things that would convince him. Keep him holding on, even if we did a big band out of the laboratory, but not on camera. That's the thing that would keep him going. I want to get that on film. I definitely want to get that on film, I'm going to document that someday, that's going to happen in the laboratory, When we ended up getting to the laboratory, all the students at the university with extremely skeptical, very, very skeptical, but they had heard about the spontaneous PK, so they hit the underneath the video recorders in it. There was a separate room and they hit all kinds of things everywhere around I know, There was stuff hidden. I mean. Why is the recorder hidden under that vcr? You know, or is there a fork hidden behind that car, but it doesn't belong there. So I started.

Getting up all those things on lunch time and that convinced all the students that we were genuine as well surprised. So this. I mean this this this whole thing went on and on it it's a simple as so, what have It was immediately Randy sent them a list of thirteen caveats of things that we that they shouldn't do, and it was common sense, stuff right. It was stuff like don't the subjects work at the same time, because it could distract you, don't let them work with more than one look at a time because they could confuse you with those objects as to which ones you're bending and there was this whole list of different things. Show the list to me and MIKE and had a good laugh about it and said this would make you guys so uncomfortable. We want you to become where in reality they should have followed that list, because one of the things we're Andy said was marked everything on a micro and macro level. So the the subjects can see the macro mark, but won't realize as a micro mark on there as well, which would have helped

because their idea of doing a macro mark was on every fork. They took the focal spot they measured it at both ends like the height from the table and they measured the middle of the four from the height from the table, they put a label on it on a little string with a number on it and that their idea of keeping track of if something had bent or not because I would measure it after we concentrated on it and. Would then re measure it again afterwards and they would say: oh ok. This is this is bent a millimeter or two millimeters, so we would do things like we would say this tags in my way. Can I take it off yeah you can take it off, would put it down, concentrate on it. Didn't do anything put it down on the table pick another fork or spoon. If I remove this tag, take it off put it down, concentrate on it, nothing happens. Which the tags around on the one that was on the first one to the second one, the second one of the first one and then put the two forks off to the side and then wait. Two three hours later pick up one of those forks. Obviously

not doing anything with their concentrating on it. Why don't you measure and they would measure it and the measurements had now changed, not realizing, because I never measured the other one again, because I re measured everything consistently later on and put new tires on every single time, not realizing that we just simply switch forks. As we reached across the table. We would lean on one of the forks and then hours again later. We would pretend like we actually meant that for so this win On I mean it went on for a hundred and eighty hours over four years I mean we messed with these people bad. We did probably some things at the time that we're probably illegal as well what. Like leaving the window on locked at the laboratory, going off to the club across the state line, coming back like about four five o'clock in the morning, breaking into the building and bending up every single piece of metal that was in the laboratory. Our they're gonna fucking scientists were running this well. This is back eighty so right now and they they had. They actually had this a query back in the eighties. Scientists were like eighty east

they really, but no it's true. Here's a sad thing right I will into this thinking. These people were going to be the enemy. It was me against them. Well, I had to do this turns out. These are just really really nice, nice people that are very naive when it comes to what psychic phenomenon is right, if you're a scientist most likely you're, not studying a whole lot of liars and mentalists and magicians and psychic phenom and you really are. Probably to find out whether or not it's real and maybe I believe a little bit too much yeah well enough? Yet when it came to this type of phenomenon, absolutely, but yellow was already doing that, although psychics will already doing it in other countries and they will be invalidated as genuine thing in other countries. Yeah. We know like these are on over in France, even north over in England. You know there was a lot of research going on in England at the time on this type of phenomena as well. It was a really big thing. And it was just people hose in people- it was little kids like here's. The that thing right

so over in England, there were a man think about the guys. Name is now there was a scientists over there. A Para psychologist who was working with little kids in his thinking is that kids, don't like little kids, don't lie. That's all they do is lie they get to that. Point where they learn how to live without anything in every skills. Don't lie that someone without kids in these kids only got caught the only reason they got caught with by accident, because they were the video cameras were left on as soon as the Parasite college slept through. My kids were taking forks and spoons, and actually bending them underneath their feet and then putting him back up on the table. And then it would come in as they literally scientists went in with the premise that children don't lie. That is one of the dumbest fucking things. I've ever heard in my life. Don't disagree with you, but this is how badly people wanted to believe in this phenomenon. Why do why do people want to believe in hidden powers? I think,

why people want to believe in most things right and we want to find. We want to believe there's something more than just us like that for most people we're just we're not enough, and I don't know if it's because we we get so bored with our lives. We get depressed with our lives. We get you nowhere in this everyday thing of going to work coming home, and it is this all there is is this it. You know. Is there something else that could that's a superpower that I could I could actually have. Is there something I can discover this bigger than me better than You know this is the unit where is much bigger than just this planet right here right. So If you ask me, I would think that if you, if you are foes, will coming here if they were coming here, let's say I don't believe they were, but if they were coming here, you don't believe they were annoyed item. Was that I think if they were, I just don't I I don't. I think we would really have real evidence on herbs and evidence of it by now, but here's the thing right wouldn't it make much sense even like for us. Ok, let's say we start going looking at other planets. Are we going to send other humans out there or

going to go ahead and send robots or something like that they can land use it much yet, but I can live and wrote to getting better and better and better. I said this in advance of elation civil. Is surely they would also have right this advance where they don't have to send them selves out. They can send something to represent them right. What the real hardcore believers believe, those greys are grey aliens, the big black eyes. They think there's some sort of android or something and it could be, but I don't believe I don't. We had him. I believed a lot more before I started doing that television show. Right. The television show cured me of Bigfoot cured me of psychics cured me of aliens cured me of like almost everything. This is a thing with me right when I was a young kid. I believe in that stuff. You know when I was a young kid. I spoke in tongues I thought they did really yeah yeah. I had the whole experience. I mean it was like all the chemicals running through my body and meet,

american music, but I to get you know doing the whole damn yeah. You know, I'm going that. I realized later what was going on there at the time I was looking for answers. I was looking. For instance, I had a very disturbed life and you're, probably looking for some sort of security, I got shot down every single time. I would ask questions. I was called a trouble maker. He so we're talking about darkness and evil. Well, how come the bye, covered in black. To shut up, don't ask questions I could be more well, you know the cover most of the Bible's back. Then they wouldn't have the white bibles. We all had the black bibles and it I would just ask innocent questions like okay. Well, how could, if you're talking about darkness ' You know an evil and you know it's all associated why's. This bible covered in black you know, and I just wanted answers, I'm looking for answers. I would ask these questions and I do that. I thirst knowledge. I love knowledge. You know, I read all the time. It says I'm always looking to try to understand things. I won't always retain all that.

Information, but it will be in the back of my head somewhere where it will pop out at some point when I do need it so, but it is fascinating. This desire to believe, especially to desired, things don't necessarily make sense whether it's ghosts or it's ufos or did you ever watch a show? Finding Bigfoot I have in the past. It's not it's, not something I sit down, and so I don't pinch it you know, but every so it is like a rock got thrown or something in the same as these go shows like that, every week nothing happens, but somehow they managed to keep you glued to your seat. I think you watch that people watch it because I think this is going to be the show. This is going to be the one because they tease it like that. But here's the thing If it was the one we would have already heard about it before it got to air. The key is night vision. Once you have night vision, you seem legit he's looking for things in the basement or you looking for things

the woods right, if you have night vision or thermal visions like something well technology they'll find it now looks like the ghost detecting meters. A little later, you can set them off just by hitting a walkie talkie, so you can yeah like way across the room or in another room. You hit a walkie talkie. Those things go friggin crazy. You know, is there in the the men paranormal research? Is there like a moment where you know like in? Do you know that in Seti the search for extraterrestrial religions there's there's this one phenomena that happened? I think they call it. The blip or something like that yeah. I I don't think that's a name. I don't know. I know exactly what I thought. I don't think it is either. I notice there's this one like the event to a sort of like an f or whatever it is this. One loud noise that came from space that they think is they don't know what it is right. They don't know what it is: they're, not sure what that was yeah. You know what I'm completing it was something that happened under water. That's what I'm doing.

There was something there is a an organic, no ways that was under water wasn't a signal. That's the called the bloop whatever, whatever this anything like that. There is anything like that too, but I'm could I. I confuse the two events that there was something what happened where they recorded an organic sound underwater from some sort of an animal. I don't know what it was, but they think it could be a whale or something who knows just you know something discovery channel, I it's a lot of stuff under there. We don't know about for sure the place yeah Well, we were talking about the desire for people. I mean this is what reasons why being a mentalist works or being one of these psychic hoaxers works as because can love, is overwhelming desire to believe something more out there, not not just the powers. You and I possess the normal senses of seeing and hearing and touching and smelling and the but there's more some people Have more some people know when the phone is going to ring? Some people know things they have an intuition, they could sense or us

people know hold my hold on him. Let me look in your eyes. I know things. I know things you don't know. It's like a creepy. Hey look at me right now to see where that that that's a weird thing right, but that's what the web design, because it gives us. Why would somebody looking at me like that? If there was no purpose- and it didn't believe in if there wasn't something right when I perform, I don't just read mines. I do things like I touch their hand. I can look at me see this right there and I do certain things because it's that thing of like I've got to show a process, even if I'm showing a process. Why would I be showing a process if it wasn't real right now. Here's the weird thing also overwhelming them, with things to think about yet to appoint Do you touching them and moving them or looking at them as all these variables? They have to take into account now that there on their map of things that they're processing. That's now some new territory yeah

it also. We talked about the cell and we gonna come. We have so many stories all over the place. We stop that and I'll try to come back to some of them. But it's back in my comedy club days. I worked the worst and the best clubs. I mean that there was at the comedy workshop in Houston, Texas, on, if you remember them on shore, Paul Mansell sharing Jerry and they had me come and do a Christmas jokes. I wanted a clean show for Christmas and I came in and then there like, alright you're, going to go out on the road and you're headlining like straight off, head lighting like no middling Nono's opening act, nothing. I went straight into headline in which a lot of comedians hated me for that, because they're working so hard again, it's like there's no place for magic in a comedy club. It's a comedy club, but I was going out. I was doing these comedy clubs, but I was doing like the best, and I was also doing the worst like I was doing comedy clubs, where literally it's a kick a bar in a a an oil town and this mash like in blue brothers, you know across the front it's because we will throw beer bottles at the band right everything else and I'm forming behind that with a little gate that they have to come in. For me to perform with these people.

With a big pole in the middle, because people kick her dance around that and the bar actually around the corner, I gotta try to get people in there, so I performed at the worst and the best places. I only in situations where people are just not there to see the performer there. You know what colleges where it's a day, show a day all day shows of the wars. The college is the worst. If I've done in the air, like you come and it's like yeah. They're sitting in the cafeteria barely paying performing the cafeteria they're trying to study for a test? They're not there for you, so I got to grab their attention so my first thing is to come out and say: if I was to ask you want to think of a playing card, you might think ACE of spades or queen of hearts. When I want to think of card, get one get one get one get one stand up and it's like. Bam bam. Bam. Bam, bam, Bam, Bam, bam. It was like holy crap. We need to pay attention to the sky, and so that that's where I came in from those harsh days are really just trying to grab their same thing with comedians. Do bar gigs yeah yeah you just gotta, you gotta, quite him down you gotta gotta grab, so

So I'm with the scientists we break in in the laboratory at night. Uh. They have an aquarium. There's another psychic there that supposedly gets ghosts to come in and the ghost will write things in these coffee grounds in this inverted aquarium with a padlock on it in this bar. Is it go over it? Edwards the other kids with me looks underneath and realizes that the even though it's locked on top the post that it's locked to there's nuts underneath it like bowl He just unbolt sit it up. We write stuff in the coffee grounds. We both it back up. You know so it's like all these things and we bend everything we go to bed about five hundred in the morning and Peter Phillips calls he calls at about seven hundred in the morning. He says how you doing. I said I didn't sleep well. Last night I had a dream that we were in the laboratory. You know trying to work and everything just bent and went crazy. He will go back to sleep I'll talk to you in a few hours. He called me back in

another hours as you did it, you did it, you did it and I go. What did we do? He goes. You know he says your psychic powers when you were sleeping bent everything in the laboratory, so it was just we play these games. We did these things still alive. He still alive. I've met him since then. He feels that he tricked them. If Well, what a loser he is at the for you here hi. I felt bad you, so we were talking around at one point because we did a conference and as a kid by the name of Masa, Walkie Kyoto, all right from Japan, Masa Walkie could speak English. She had a band that he was in as well, so we sang the songs and everything and I'm rooming with him and I said, a muscle walkie killed because he's planted up for real, like you know- and I say, is there any time when you can't do your psychic powers to use the tracking says can't speak English cannot speak English,

all of a sudden. He couldn't speak English so with this gal's. At this thing as well and the reason I mentioned Masa Walkies, because there was a tv producer from England that came over and he said to her, he said Randy. What would convince you that this stuff is genuine Remi gave him the same eleven caveats that he gave to the scientists the same eleven carrots and guy followed them. He sat with me, set with MIKE. He sat with muscle, walk Europe. The master walkie had away from twisting a spoon and basically had a thing in his shoe. He would go down and when nobody was looking put it in there, but because the sky followed the eleven caveats, nothing happened that day. Absolutely nothing happened until the cameras went off the moment. The cameras went off MOSS, walkie, twisted a spoon and started getting it to twist. The producer had a complete mental breakdown. Now, to this point, I'm just thinking this is tricks right,

not it's not that big of a deal he starts screaming yelling that rain he's evil should never of less than a Randy. What I got this on tape, if it wasn't for Randy and he looks down and he's got a wet spot on the front of his pants and he looks down, he says I just had a demonic ejaculation like literally and he having his mental breakdown, I go. And I have to spend the night, which was not a bad thing. She was quite pleasant to look at his his assistant. I had to spend the night with her in her room because Randy was calling her, I'm not ready. I mean Tony Edward calling the producer was calling her

consistently screaming and yelling about ready and the skin folded in half a cup. You can't just gloss over the fact that I just nutted in his pants. He was yelling you just going to. He had him it's a mental breakdown. I mean it's a composite measure by orgasm in your pants during mental. No, I didn't do it. He didn't. You should document that that's more impressive than building a spoon I should've said yep, that's my psychic ability working right here. I mean that doesn't make any sense, so he He tells you he hasn't ejaculation fancy in front of everybody. He says it's a demonic, ejaculation. He straight up says I am Monica Jack elation seem so good, together, guy with definitely got ahead initial was a producer, for I think I was not able to see. If I'm not mistaken, is doing a documentary for themselves. Yeah well, he's crazy home. Isn't really to finish a documentary cell, oh well, yeah yeah, definitely wasn't crazy that this long

first. You may well. He believe in psychic phenomena he willingly also is only that a demon may have come in his pants. That is true. Yes, as a show it to you as to whether you believe it was a demon on. I don't I don't know if the demon declared a demonic, a jacket on your pants, we like pull you sure down like get out of there. I think I would start dating that dean. I mean probably price, to pay that you wouldn't want that. Don't need a girlfriend, don't need a woman at that point, information on grants. We disagreement in yellow it's a good looking demon, so he we've seen that Randy was evil, because if it wasn't for Randy's rules would not. He would have got this on tape, but how dumb does guy have I mean that is so silly like this is a person that's supposed to be discovering, or at least investigating psych phenomena and he doesn't understand there might be some other true investigator right, he's a producer he's a producer who believes in this phenomenon. Hence he wants to do a documentary on psychic phenomena has an interest in it. He already believes in it. So he's not.

It's not as bad as the Para psychologist, who are supposed to be using proper science 'cause, I'm often asked. Is it right? Is it ethical that you fool scientists in the name of science right? So, let's be This whole big question like a. We will be unethical to do that and my answer that admire. Scientists say that their fools well to think right because using right they do it's like. If you uh, Good guy who's a thief to break in your house, and then he breaks house, in a method that, with a method that you didn't anticipate, is that unethical, it's no different than what. You're you're a mentalist you're you're, a person who is trying to trick them. They have these rules set up to make sure that you don't trick them, so they know for a fact that what you're doing is psychic energy but- you don't really have psychic powers and you absolutely don't of course, you're going to fucking trick them right. The idea that you would

correct them, and that would somehow another be unethical. No, you just played the game better than them. Well, this was this was a point right. It was this thing of like my thing was: should you be taking money to invest this phenomena under false pretense is because you're not using proper science if you're using proper science, I won't get away with any of this. Had you have followed Randy's rules, we would how to get away with any of this I mean we had very strict ethical rules. If you ask, but we magicians. We have to say. Yes, if you ask working for the amazing Randi with him, I have to say: yes, you know. So we have all these rules. Those old tv shows where, like if someone undercover cop, you say you a cop, they have to tell you that's what they don't really have to do, that they don't know, that's only a premise: they use really shows damn it. If you ask Are you a cop and they go no, and then you buy the heroin off him. He still go to jail. Well, yeah

at this point I'm going to double heroin or anything, but there may be something else. Similar gun was version. Yeah. There's very few people have told me a story where I go damn. I wish I was there for that story, but the in the pants and blame it on a demon. I really do wish. I was there. I really wish I was there for that guy. I would like to be in the room would be like hold up everything else. Just gotta get put on the backburner here. Nowadays it be like hold on. Let me get my smart phone out. I gotta take a picture of this film on Instagram demon. Why are you showing me your jizz soaked pants? Well, how much do you have to come in your pants where it shows on the outside Jesus Christ? You know I mean we were scared, though, like my kids like we were so probably forty nineteen, one thousand nine hundred and eighty one one thousand nine hundred and eighty. That means on two thousand one hundred and twenty two somewhere in that area. Probably still check, is ask

but keep in mind. I was also this kid who was very like socially. Like not I mean I'm the kid in the back of the classroom. Heavy coat on the middle of winter is not the first time we got ever came in his pants and then pointed to it in front of me. Yeah yeah for me. Yes, that's never happened by holding a fifty one years. Old can never say I've ever had that happen ever you know ever had to go to my grave without anybody ever not in their parents and then putting down will look at demon made me. Do this or you have excuse now. If it ever happens to you well now the problem is. Millions of people have heard this and so they'll just scan me, so I'm uh This is going to be great everywhere. You go guys are going to pull their shirt where he goes. He goes to work at a company company. Ten guys stand out with a puddle writing down with a bottle right there. It's going to be great, maybe not my parents. Did you bring nails man? I did. I brought nails, I got some stuff, maybe we might get some of that stuff. I have it. I have stuff here in case, so you felt bad that you tricked this dummy

MIKE, and I really like. We were scared because we realized that kind of thing is unhinged. Well, not that we is the kind of power we had over these people. At that point it was just getting them, but it's like there's another whole thing going this whole cycle it's a cool thing going on here, because they want to believe so battling really messing with people's heads right. I mean we really and what's going to happen, we come out and say this is all a fraud in face. We said during a recent look: we want to come out and you know we want to end. It now There is like you know what we got tv show, we're gonna be coming up in a couple of months: let's just wait and expose it. Then it's not going to make any difference, so we we hung out until that time. We know all the peripheral you know sign to then there was one guy with the name of birth order. Swartz I didn't want to do anything with him, because he kind of came into the scene at the end of working with the MAC Lab, but he kept pushing him. She and pushing and he lived in New Jersey. So, finally, I went out there and this guy kinda believed in everything um. It was

it was. He wrote a whole book called the attending the poltergeist entertaining the poltergeist aiming taming apologize. You can find it online as well and it was a booklet, Anet, it was for the psycho. So it's like a son and make simply because something of dancers, the medicine, but it was an actual medical journal and it was all about his stuff that he had done with me. But this guy believed in everything like he handed me a camera one time the a video camera and he said, look I've. I I do a lady that could take pictures of the sky and when I get that the film and you know I get it developed and I look at it and I play it- you can see ufos in the sky that you couldn't see with the naked eye. Can you do that now? I was one of these kids that I was just like. I would say I could do anything and everything even the laboratory, I would say I could do anything and three hands with the camera. I start taking pictures of the parking

in the sky and everything and I hand it back to him, so he gets it developed when he gets developed. This is vacation for h and then there's him handing me the camera. You see all of sudden this weird kind of Bob and in the blog you see a woman's torso and five. You see a woman giving birth to a baby. You see Jesus Christ, you see all these images and he he he she I pointed them out to me. I could see them as well when he actually point so like a roar shark tests, that kind of things sort of yes, because this guy's affording psychologist alright soon, what all I had simply done was I I didn't know what to do. I was just making stuff up as I went along, so I spat on the front of the camera and that blob as it chains and as it dried almost like. Looking at cloud, you could see all these different shapes and so believe that this was psychic phenomena. This was something that was happening now. I gotta give the MAC Lab Credit, because when Peter Phillips said so, he said yeah, it looks

like a blob of water. An but but Berthold said to him. He said yeah, but it's what in the blob, that's in Orton is what you see inside it. That's important. He called One day I lived in Pennsylvania, then he called me up one day and said you did it. You did it. I said what did I do? He said well there's this join. There was this one jar that he would have silver ware and things inside, and they were all sealed and he would have it sitting up on a shelf and at seven hundred o'clock every night I was supposed to concentrate, never did, but I was supposed to straight from Pennsylvania and get this try to get the stuff to Ben Long distance, and he called me- and he said you know jar. You concentrate every night yeah. I know that you are you said you did it, I'm thinking, damn I'm good! What the hell happened here. He says: well, you actually missed it, but you hit the radiator and it's leaking all over the right. So he believed in every city. That's how much this guy believed in all this stuff and gave me credit. But when you read it, here's the interesting thing

right now me stuck electrodes on my head. He did all kinds of psychological tests and the psychological test turned out that if I wasn't psychic, I would be crazy, so this test his psychological test from he showed that if I wasn't like psychic, I would be crazy, but I was asking answering the questions like a psychic like a psychic would so breathless was a another character at the very end when we came out and said this was all a fraud. It was all a fake berthold was the one that said amongst a couple other people, but he was a primary one outlook they say they were lying. Then how do we know they're not lying now? Oh god, which is an interesting question right, but my answer, because I can show you how I did those things right, even the MAC Lab.

The we had a a conference in the time Life building in New York. We can clean. We said it was all a hoax. We got up there and if you can ever find footage of this online, it's great because Rainey introduces us and it's Tyler's everybody's there I mean you know it discover magazine us at psychology today, you know with the New York to everybody, everybody from all over the world.

Brandies found two psychics that are genuine and we get up there and we demonstrate stuff and then Randy. You know somebody asks the question, you know, how do you do it and Randy looks at us. He says you want to answer MIKE so MIKE Edwards walks over, he says yep. He said so it's a hoax, it's a trick, and then I say yet. For the last four years we've been fooling the scientist and that's when we came out and you see their mouths open like. Oh my god, you know it's like it's just it's great great footage. When you can see it, because it's that moment, the scientists would not answer their phone until we spoke to them an I have the recording. So I have to have the recording with where I end up calling them back and I'm recording the conversation an eye. He says: we've heard this rumor that you guys are working with Randy and that you're not real, and I say what do you think and then he says to me that can't be true. It has to be real and I go well. Unfortunately, it is true,

an he starts asking well. How did you do this, and I tell him: how did you do that? And I tell him and he's constantly asking about this and that trying to find one thing? One thing that he could hold onto it and there was some little things because a lot of times when you have real information- and you know you're going to do something- you take chances and sometimes those chances hit as well. So you can explain that that's just the odds right right yeah, so he wanted desperately to believe and the thought was that maybe you had psychic powers, but you didn't want people to know. You had psychic powers so that you tricked them, and then you were lying afterwards to conceal your power He also mentioned that Randy may have paid us off to lie for him too so yeah. Well, he was probably devastated rights. As a scientist, I'm sure he was he caught a guy that I knew in Washington PA where I lived, and I think you guys still lives there

now, but have an image. Newsham and Joe was an escape artist and I knew Joe now can in mind when I was doing all this, I really didn't know any magicians. In fact, even when I started I didn't know there was an area of magic called mentalism, which is doing you know, taking a five known senses to create the illusion of a succession, not a psychic you're, using tricks using psychology, verbal nonverbal communication, but mostly magic to create these tricks. Alright, I knew I didn't know that I just knew there were people that call on people with tricks to make them think they would. Like it. That's all that I know at that time, but I met a few magicians in one of them was Joe Newsom, so birth or Schwarz caught up Joey said. Why would why would Steve do this? Why would ban check? Do this um Joe says I don't know, but I can open locks with my mind

Joe preceded, which I thought was really asshole thing to do Joe, preceded to work with him for years until birth or guide and Berthel believe that Joe has psychic powers, and I called you at one time. I said why you doing this. This guys been through enough. You know, we've already exposed as a fraud is a fake. You know why are you doing this to that guy, an rather than answer the question he pretended that Who is his brother that had answered the phone, but I know Joe and I knew Joe and I I know that his voice, his brother, doesn't sound anything like him. So yeah isn't it possible that some people, like look some people like playing tennis, some people like fucking with people right he likes fucking with people, that's poor probably yeah probably, but I think it's I think it's a hell of a mouse doesn't kill it yeah. So, let's it, crawl away a little bit and swats. It brings it back. Let's it survive, I mean that's probably what he was doing. Sometimes the mouse likes that right

no, I'm of the mouse. Several! No isn't that I I was talking to my friends now. Let's talk my friend tyus right, so there's this thing of this is enzyme that cats have I can't think about toxoplasmosis write an enzyme. It's right parasite parasite, That goes a into some mice where they think it's okay, to have fun to play with a catwalk comp kidnapped, actually turns their sexual reward system side. Ways where the cat is that when the cat urinates this smell of cat urine gets them excited and actually makes the house aroused ended it moves. All fear of of the cat yeah because The only way the toxoplasmosis gondii, which is the parasite, can reproduce, is inside the cats gut, so the cat has to eat the mouse or the rat. In order for this.

Recite to reproduce well and then the reproduction. The thing is, it doesn't affect the cats behavior, which is very strange, but it does affect people, it does affect people and does affect rats and mice yeah. Do you think that's why we have cat? Ladies? you think it effects close crazy bridges. You thinking that you said it doesn't affect said it doesn't affect me or do you think it might does affect, does affect and effect cats got you. The cats behavior seems to be the same exactly the same, but it definitely effects people it makes. Old, more impulsive, there's a bunch of weird relations are so recent study that showed that entrepreneurs and entrepreneurial behavior is often connected with Toxoplasmosis infection wow that people are more risk there. They're more inclined to take risks and take chances. It's also there's a disproportionate number of motorcycle victims of crashes that have toxoplasmosis infection really yeah. This came from Robert Sapolsky's work. He's a professor at Stanford. We had a chance to interview him.

Fastening God will out of his his work. He's done on Toxoplasma do you think those other a lot of other things like that. We don't realize it affect human behavior. There could very well I mean there's a bunch of different parasites that people get and you know there was another guy got- was his name Horton's out of University of Houston Peter Hortes, damn! It anyway he's a an infectious disease expert who, Special in same television show. Work with you, I met right and he said that people that live in jungle, climates literally one hundred percent percent of them. One hundred percent- are infected with parasites, while various parasites, some documented some undocumented yeah yeah yeah,

and many of them control behavior yeah, those fascinating there's, some of them that are really creepy like this one is an aquatic worms that talks a grasshopper drowning so that it can give birth so it it literally gets into the grasshoppers brain re. Why ours- its brain- tells the grasshopper to jump into the water, so they can come out of its body and exist in the what it's amazing. How, when you think about that right, how those things have developed to be able to do exactly pacifically what the certain things need them to do. So there's something else can benefit from it is that his name So I want to get a benefit, but trying to find it. I couldn't damn it. I think it's Peter Hortensias, Hortes, sorry to the University of Houston, I'm pretty sure pretty sure anyway. So yeah I mean your friend, probably just like fucking with people,

and you probably feel like this guys- are dummy. I'm just going to keep talking with these dummies. Have you ever since I didn't do it because I wanted to know. I know you're right, I mean I get it because I thought I was doing the right thing and I didn't realize that these people are going to become my friends I meeting with every day. They've got these lights, you know, and I care about losing people at some point. I know that I'm going to have to come out and it's going to be devastating for them. You know we did it for he's. Got tenure at the university is going to look like an idiot at the end of this, and that wasn't my purpose of doing it yeah but much bigger picture. Yes, I get it, but that is what he is. I agree and that's why I'm saying there's a much bigger picture. I would do the same thing again today. I would just check myself emotionally, I think more than I did then so you wouldn't become friends with that. I would not be close friends with. I wouldn't share a lot of my life with them. I wouldn't want to learn about their life. I'd want to keep it much more this document, so you dragged on for so long. You know maybe

just did it over a couple of days. In addition, I would have no way to do that. I mean we would have days where we would do nothing like him. We literally sat in a lab and nothing would happen for an entire commitment Manitou that sure over four years. Well, here's the thing right! It's in a bit misleading. This is a hundred eighty hours total right and what that means is what coming out on holidays were coming on on weekends will coming out all right, you're extending this project, yeah yeah over a long ride to time, and we were making money. You know there was per diem that paid for Al Food, but that's about it yeah you just doing We will just see I lost money because I had to take time off work yeah. It's I think it's. What is a good thing, yeah documented yeah 'cause. You show that even scientists can be tricked if they're, not following the scientific method and that, The way to do it, because there were even some pericot psychologist who said: look if you think you can infiltrate a laboratory, go ahead and

so we were doing things in accordance with what some of the parapsychological psychologists were actually saying. We should do yeah for sure the that's the whole game I mean the game, is you're supposed to be there supposed to try to find out if you're tricking them so they should be assuming you're tricking them yeah, so they not assuming you're, tricking them they're tricking themselves, and that is part of the problem with psychics. Like I had a friend of mine, went to psychic and they're like oh, my god. I knew all about my grandma ago. Don't you know about your grandma? I give this mother fucker. Really knows, psychic is really no slightly his psychic power. They didn't tell you some shake. You don't know right telling you things about your life, you already know. I don't need. But he did tell me about my life now. That's a good thing, each other right right, that's all they're, doing and there's ways for me to get that info from you without you realizing what I was saying this to my friend. He did not want to listen to yeah. He wanted to believe so strong and he definitely didn't want to believe they got tricked. This is part of the problem.

The scammers, have you ever seen some of those cameras, those nigerian scammers- that get these poor lonely mountain to think that women are waiting for them in Europe? There's a terrible television show. Terrible in that it was so sad, this one guy, flew to Europe twice to be with this woman and every time he Oh there she had something come up in the wild him, it was devastating, she couldn't meet him and he kept going back and his daughter was saying. I can't convince him that this is a scam. He really believes this woman's waiting for him he's never heard this woman's voice. She said she can't talk, on the phone, but she he sends pictures and he really believes strongly. No, it's It is really sad. I I that's why I find like in and it would like pen pen but give me one of the biggest compliments, partly that I've ever had actually at one point he had seen me work and his wife at Simi Work Emily. It's me work and Emily came in. She said yeah Penn said that if we

He didn't know you were not psychic from that demonstration from watching your show. You are the most convincing psych we've ever seen. Well, I said that to Dunkin said the same thing to doctor when you did that performance for us on television like that is the crazy shit. If you weren't so adamant What you were doing was a trick right and I was like dude whatever his father was mad, saying like freckles right yeah. What have you really is? Psychic? Oh my god. Dunkin tends to you know he has a thirst for the Fantast. Yeah. So for him, which is nice thing I think, is that you can play off that. That's a good thing to happen. Yeah yeah, I My auto show up for that exact reason, the show I'm doing in Rochester is called telepathy and the first half usually it's going to be. I don't actually have to pass, but normally I do know when it's a two hour show, but I've had to cut it down to an hour show and the first half was all

is me coming out talking about telepathy. What is telepathy wanted Einstein. He believed it was radio waves, Marie Currie believe that it was Einstein Billy's class. If he was a role he I even with the four to a book called telepathy, so yeah yeah. He believed it was a real thing. He believe you might get out right away is that other people actually picked up Sigmund Freud believed it was related to a dream state. You know, there's all these different. Third, there is, I mean the word was coined in. I think it was one thousand eight hundred and forty two by Frederic Myers and he believed certain things. Telepathy. So there was all these different things: uh, sorry for Conan Doyle, who wrote Sherlock Holmes. You know most rational character in literature. He believed that spirits. All around us could pluck a thought out of one person's mind and actually put it in another. So he believed all prognostication all these things having to do it had to do with spiritualism. So there's all these people, I mean the US government, you know about Stargate. They gave what twenty million dollars in the 70s going on into the 90s to study and find out if this stuff had any practical military applications on these type of things. So

viewing, tell it yeah. Well, that's where remote viewing came out. There was another thing stargate that cured me of that television show current remote training that you did that. I think you actually did that with the DJ. Ruthie on there as well? I think so yeah yeah yeah. I think he was part of that, but dj yeah me and dj both did better just taking it slow speed it up. That's great, we just made it should have been through some stick figures that that's how that could be the tower this hour is about. Actually was a man that looks like Intel or is there was the one guy that is famous for remote viewing and interviewed him as well? What is his name, yeah, you say, is their own though it yeah. I was on about all the time yeah on there for hours and hours and hours and yeah. I met him and I was like it's gonna with me and he was explaining how you work for the: U S, government, how they found Osama Bin Laden a fork and now in

bunker somewhere over him yeah, but that doesn't work it fungi yeah. It's telling me about his hot russian girlfriend, I'm saying alright more about that. Let's go that direction yet. Can I remove Buick and you put it in my head right now: could I see which oh she's in the bathtub great woosh even allowed to be more having another demon ejaculation, my pants so anyway, since that time, I've gone after many things Peter pop off the evangelist said he was getting the word of God. Brandy came to Houston in nineteen. Eighty six, I gotta have your piece in yeah. I found the earpiece. Oh you found. That was me yeah, so Randy was writing an article I think was hustler magazine. It was one of those magazines or on the bachelor Angelus, that place to hide something. It was one of the level readings it may not have been high. So I don't want you to quote me on that. Then

Is it a lot of those right on tables at once, a modern house? I don't think it would be a lot think it was hustle up, but I could be wrong. They've, always one of the ones that people actually read 'cause the girls never take their panties off, so you get bored with just looking at I do now, though, I didn't go back to well, they don't write, no, they were not. They went way. I I do a little after they did not know that all right, Johnson's there yeah show amazing willpower sure they went to like bikinis or underwear. They stopped taking their clothes off, but then sales inexplicably tanks Why so strange those articles are great, they did have good articles, they did Playboy had they had something interviews, they had a lot of groundbreaking autos, two or through the years buddy of mine had a book of all the different playboy interview over the years and also we have some good stuff yeah, so Randy hustler yeah writing for a slow and evangelist. He said hey. Do you want to come see this evangelist with me and, let me assure icon, so went there an is about ten thousand people's downtown big auditorium. He was a huge auditorium,

All these people sitting around an pop off comes out. Onstage starts saying he's getting the word of God. He's telling people their names. Information by their doctors are with their elements, are and he's he starts healing people have cancer. He starts healing people of blindness, people walking again, and it was really really mostly for me. I tears in my eyes, but I knew it was all bullshit, but I had new news. Boston is still running it. You get this whole fuckin', like, when you see a little kid crying and running down the aisle, you write it. You, you want to get an

I agree, but at the same time it's like it's just so emotional. It's just that you get caught up in this whole thing. It's just do so. He asked for people to collect money. He just asking random people come up grab a bucket go collect money. I got down there. I was like the 15th bucket. I got my bucket. I walk around. I get checks. I got probably about my. Don't know how much time granted here I don't know you know what I've got. I mean money for us will get money. Then you go, I'm think I'm done. He said no yeah, ok, once you guys to go back out and collect checks and now we're going out getting checks in the bucket. But then it's like go out, get sealed off rings and people were dropping envelopes in there with like watch is rings and stuff like that. As I come back I hand the bucket up to pop off and I look up and I notice that he's got a piece of plastic in his ear. I go back to Randy and I say Randy I said: look either this man of God. God doesn't like him enough to heal him and he's got a hearing aid or something else is going on. I don't know what, but something else is going on and I think that's how he's getting in,

commissioner, and he's like no he's using the Monix numonyx. Basically memory systems. Alright, I you. I have to use a lot in the monix to memorize things, because otherwise I have major issues. Anne, I know a lot about mnemonics. You either memorize a lot about things about a few things or you memorize a few things about a lot of things, but you don't memorize a lot of things about a lot of things and he was memorizing a lot of things about a lot of things. If that was the case, I don't think so so they went out to the next Peppa Popoff congregation- think she was in San Francisco. You got a friend also from Alec Jason. I think his name is from who is an electronics engineer, an knows everything about electronics and he brought this little scanner and dressed up as a security guard hanging out in the back, and he was scared to death. He was going to get caught. Nobody questioned him he's there in a security outfit and he scans all the frequencies ahead of time, and he blocks out everyone of those frequencies that are known for

the moment pop off hits the stage a brand new frequency pops up and turns out. I think it was thirty seven point. I can tell you in just a second here uh yeah wait was that the frequency that I was on was yeah. I thought it was right. Yeah, thirty, nine point, seven megahertz, that's what God broadcasts on an it sounds an awful lot like Peter Popoff's, wife, so what we did was we taped all this an went to the Johnny Carson show. This is how long ago that was now on this tonight show with Johnny Carson Randy takes it on. The tonight show an keep in mind that um pop off would take every single one of his shows and sort of edit it real time as well. Do you put him on television Yeah, I would put him on television is Harry. Might you know tons of I mean they were they had a a monthly budget? I think it was like five hundred fifty thousand dollars every single month. You know yeah that that that that that was a working budget that that's not the money they were actually may,

It's a god knows how much so that's how much they were spending so much. They were spending yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, so God what a dirty business, yeah so dirty, it's so dirty to just lie to people like that. I would make a great evangelist if I wasn't ethical yeah. There are times like, oh god, yeah, but I just couldn't do it. I couldn't do it this night show they play. They play the footage that they have from his tv show. They play all and then they play oh- and this was a one time that Johnny always want to know everything that was going to happen like she didn't want any surprises, but his staff said no. You want to be surprised by this trust, us so sure enough. They play that footage and then they play the footage with Papaw's wife and she saying things like PD. The first thing she says: Pd Nod your head. If you can hear me because if you don't we're going to have trouble tonight, he his head as he's talking and doing his soul of angelical thing and then

start saying? Oh there's a live one up in the back, she's got cancer in her breast, make it run up and down the aisle and shake those breasts. You know it's just always like really and there's a lot of nasty stuff. Some of that stuff we couldn't play on this night, but we showed enough- and so just to disdain a mocking of these people. Yeah. She is, she actually had breast cancer and she stone yeah. These people do that these. This is real elements that all these people well almost real limits. I'll get to that. In a second because we sent some stooges an ad so yeah, just nasty nasty stuff, but anyway the stuff we show on the tonight Show Johnny said Sarah and he never even didn't like to edit his shows either, but he had to edit this because the moment they came on Johnny's, like oh ship and you couldn't say it on tv back then we had to edit that out at that point- and he says like do, they know. About this and like note they do now and at first, off, try to say that we we we we hired actors to be his wife and then, when it was obvious that we didn't, he then came out, says

I thought everybody knew that I use that to enhance the word of God, and it took a long time for him to go on it. He's a crappy thing about this right, when I was there he's doing stuff like telling people to throw their medications up on stage. You don't need them God's going to take care. You know imagine somebody throws up some digitalis pills or something they really truly need and thank God is going to heal them. So people do die from these things and he was using a lot Other tricks, like I own part, of the way he was getting the information once this right, so people fill out prayer cards ahead of time and they put him in these boxes. In the back of the when nobody is really paying attention. The boxes get switched out. So all those prayer cards with all this information goes backstage to the wife and she's able to send that information to him. Another thing she would come out on step. She would come out. People come these things hours and hours ahead of time like literally and they leave the hospital.

Cards and everything else and she would walk out with a high and MRS pop off. I hope my husband gets to you tonight. You know where you from oh, that's nice, what's wrong with you know, I'm so well I'll pray for you and she gets all this information again. She'd go back. She had a big tape recorder in her purse and she would write that information down Another one was what I call like the Catherine Coleman Trick and Catherine Coleman was in a Van Je List Way way back, who had all these great great little like scam, trick things and what they do. Is they wait for somebody to come walking in with a k, and there they can walk, but not well and they're, using a cane they walk up to them and say you know what wouldn't you be much more comfortable in a wheelchair and we put you right up front will be right next to the reverent who's going to say no to that.

So. They get pushed up in the wheelchair and, as I push him along, they said where you from who's your doctor. You know what's wrong with getting all this information, go back out right, the information down and giving MRS pop off so the wheelchair sitting. There reverent comes out at some point. He can look at that person. He said so name and he says: we've never talked before. We've never met before. Have we because they haven't? It was the usher. Is pushing it down the God that info he says you know. God says you could be healed by God said no, I'm getting from God that you can't walk is that right and the guy sitting there he's thinking. This is a man of God right. So I'm not contradicting

and he must mean ever get a walk properly. Again, that's what he says saying that my doctor says I can never work properly again, so he doesn't contradict him. He says I say you can God says you can stand up. The man stands up, well that she first miracle because everybody else their perception is this guys in that wheelchair cannot walk. He said, take a few steps. God takes a few steps. You got that beat as well right so now, you've got the emotion going even more 'cause he's a man that couldn't even walk. He stood and now he walked pop off then goes an gets in the wheelchair and sits in it. He says: walk to the back of the wheelchair and the guy hobbles to the rack in the wheelchair. He says, push me and the guy pushes him real miracle right, but think about it. That will chair is now acting like a freaking Walker, yeah and then the great climax to the whole piece of

track is he takes a wheelchair puts it back where it is, and he says so now. That's your wheelchair meaning so like if you got up right now walked across the room. I said so that's your chair. You could say yes well, it actually is your chair. You want it, but I mean in normal circumstances. I said you were in my studio, would go yes, doesn't mean that your chair, it just means it's where you're sitting in that moment, so the person sits down and you've seen this whole miracle he's got all these tricks like that the old trick of one leg is longer than the other and you make him both the same size and also people get caught up in the moment they're on television. They want it to be real and they get. I think that's in a motion interest, that's a lot of things, but I don't think so. In this case. I think this is more of a religious thing that and truly believe- and when you have it's like when I was talking in tongues when I was yelling, you know I've got all this stuff mean. I got all this in travel and flowing through my boy boy. You get caught but it's like when I was watching it. You know I'm getting caught up on having all this reaction, my body, despite the fact I know it's all bullshit, I'm still having this this entire reaction. You know it's it's. You know meet

Ms, I in the to me the worst scum out there right now the medium said, and I'm like I say that because are taking advantage of person of on a woman in their life and they're, doing it for their own gain they're, also doing it for money, and a lot of people will say well they're making them feel good. You know what I can give crack to a junkie doesn't mean it's good for him right. The grieving process is a natural part of the state that you have to go through to stay with the living. We had a very good friend who son died of cancer. Ten years old died of cancer. She understand Lee has a huge, gaping hole right as huge gaping hole, which she says, feeling sad she's upset. She needs to fill it with something. Normally, you turn to your family for those things, but she met. She met a a medium who convinced that she could talk to her dead son. She stopped talking to a two hundred and eleven. Has she stopped talking to her husband? She started talk to the meeting and talking to her dead son, almost ended up with a divorce, almost lost her entire life as a result, and this

happens all the time, and it is so so sad and hurting people very dirty people that long island medium. You were also tasked with Theresa Caputo yeah and the worst part is the networks that edit the stuff to make it look even better the fun up there, just trying to make money just trying to make money that that that's all they don't care about this I mean they somehow another feel like they're, not a part of the scam. I mean did their little the committing fraud. They are that no, I agree there they're perpetrating the fraud. Well, the networks not involved with what is a production company, the production companies bringing it to the net but the network should know the process in the word of God knows: what's going on, they know it's bullshit, but it's like you know when I was going to get a secure ratings. It's going to do this, let's promote it, let's push it, you know they show up. Yet that's on Sci, FI and the network. They didn't want me just debunking everything and I had to tell them. I said the problem is everything is bullshit? It's not that I'm trying to debunk everything we're just really looking at it

Everything is bulshit weights way. In my show, I started to go on this little bit ago that showed telepathy. Where I talk about telepathy and what it is and everything else, but as I'm doing it, I'm performing and there's a part in that show where I feel really really dirty and I feel really really bad, but I feel like I have to do it and I actually talked to some people's dead relatives in that show, and it's like the most despicable horrible thing, and it makes me want to cry every time. I do it, but it's because in the second half of the show I go what is telepathy well, I think I know what it is. I think it's a subset of magic. I think it's a form of entertainment and a very cruel form of entertainment. I know I played with emotions that many of you here this evening, but how else can I convince you want it emotional level, and on a logical level that you can do is bullshit because here's the thing right, like your friend they've, had this one experience It's an emotional experience, meaning the psychic in the psychic telling them

tell them hey. Well, I got this friend Banacek. They could do that same thing, for you he's you to yeah. But this is, you know, or if I do it until say: Bennett Checks, a real cycling traders to meet yeah, and then I do it, and he goes well that guy's real and then now you say it's bullshit now, they'll think a it didn't go well, you know what I had that same emotional experience. I had that same feeling. Maybe maybe I'll look at my job Phillies, never to breakdown a person's belief systems. You know you can believe whatever you want. You know that's fine, so long as you're not hurting anybody else, I'm kind of sort of ok with it. But the big thing is the problem that I have is with the people that are taken advantage of those peoples. Beliefs, neurons, is always worse in sheeps clothing, there's all these people go down the side streets and there's these houses is a little high. Houses that are psychic houses where people live in them and some of them like you, look at those houses are like freaking like beautiful, and then they look like these people must be making money like huge money.

Somehow, unless they're laundering, money or something on the side as well, I mean there's enough people that believe and unfortunately they're good at it. They just hustle people and yes, it's a weird legal scam. I mean to in order to like formants constantly shutting down colts and all sorts of things that are not legit that they find to be? right, but they somehow another allow people like someone, we gotta recently for scamming someone out of hundreds of thousands of dollars- and it was the same sort of thing- she was a psychic and she was saying that she needed all this money for right for some How can we know about Ralph rains right now, so he was like he. I think he like he was like a multi like millions and millions of dollars, and there's a long scan that went on for a long time. I think it was was it I think I have it down there somewhere. I don't know where but anyway Ralph rains. He was he. He basically grew trees and replanted, trees and soul trees.

He made millions and millions of this. So there was this uh. I got scam for five point: five million dollars over the over the course of a long period time, but it all started out with he met this lady in a psychic bookstore uh. She gave him a bit of a reading and through the reading she found out that his dad wasn't well and she said that she had taken care of her dad through hospice and everything, but she had actually done it herself. She ended up moving in with him. She ended up getting him because she was doing readings, convinced him he was psychic. She ended up getting him by him. Like fifty thousand dollars home, which were all these investments. She ended up taking over all of his finances and she moved in with him romantically. No! No! This is the weird part right, so she didn't. She moved in as the caretaker for the father- but in the process of all this she's getting she's now taking over his finances, she's convinced him that they're going bankrupt. They got to pay the taxes that tax money.

Funnel through her gets deeper than this one day he's at the bus station. There's this blonde hair, beautiful girl, with an english accent that comes on over and He starts, giving him a reading. An he ends up, marrying or thinks he actually Marys us got. Some point turns out this girl is the daughter of the other woman. Her name is Paul sure and what do they call their kid? They called their kid Georgia money now now now here's the thing right: they had a kid together. He thought he had a kid with her turns out. The kid It was a cozens baby that she brought in the house and acted like she had the baby wait a minute she didn't know, You can look us all up online, so it's all online like being free head. Well, she used the baby bump thing you know, and then she acted like she had a second kid, but she lost that child and everything else and the only the way they got caught is because the boyfriend of I think the mother. I think it was where now

in the same day and bought these these cars for, like one but box, almost close to that you know they just went out and spent the money, so the This government started coming and say, wait what's going on here. How is this going down and it all came to light at night yeah yeah yeah Ralph rains, so you want to believe shit. You know they just want to be even it's a strange thing. I wonder what that is. Do you think that some sort of there's. Some sort of an evolutionary aspect to thought where, like to find things There are hidden or secrets. It is a part of Arthur for innovation or a thirst to invent things or to figure out problems more to do not be deceived. I think it's part of survival right yeah. Looking for that next evolution. What's going to work and if we could read minds that would really help us in our lives right, it would say it was a lot of pain. If I know that she's really cheating on me or she's, lying to me or he's lying to me or but it seems like it's, not just a psychic

not necessarily ghosts and all the other stuff to it all seems connected, but it is that almost evolution self deception? I think we always strive to better ourselves and to get that kind of knowledge and if there's a possum really there's an afterlife wow. What does that really mean for me as a human being run sort of the evolutionary scale? Now, I'm just thinking about things that I do in a very different manner right. It's also like this weird desire that people have to know things that are hidden nodes. It's one! That's what I'm that's a lie. That's the conspiracies, yeah right and yeah. It is possible I would like hey. I wonder what behind that cave right there. Oh, I wonder: what's over the top of that money, are there any animals over there that I can hunt in that field? You know what's over there, where is a better place to fish right now? Where is the better place to hunt and it's all about survival? I think I think, really on some level, it's a freely screwed thing: that's in our hair pattern that helps us sort of survive. You talk about people wanting, believe things. You know

a guy there's a russian psyche. Guy eat Frankel. I think his name was imagine this jail cell, your conduct on the train right and you're, going down some tracks with the training you see a guy in a white suit. Just looking at the site, looking down towards you coming down the tracks puts down a briefcase steps right in front of the train. Stairs at the train puts his hand up in sort of a stop motion, but you can't stop see I hit him. You knock em, you kill the guys in a million pieces or whatever happened to him, an actual real guy. They open up the briefcase inside there is a letter says I stopped a bicycle. I stopped the car, I stopped a streetcar and now I'm going to do the ultimate thing. I'm going to stop a train. This was a psychic who believed he had powers. Now. My thinking on this I'm going for a swim going yeah. You probably stepped in front of a bicycle and of course it stopped the person. Brakes on it, he stood in front of a car, and it also stopped, of course, and the streetcar he just got lucky with the train was a huge mistake because it can't stop in time.

But this guy really truly believe he had these abilities and then I get really really cynical, and I start thinking 'cause, I think about my ex wife and himself and crazy stuff and I go. I go yeah maybe had an Ex wife made Nynex, wife, but a wife. He said to him: hey you know. Frankly, I bet you can stop a bicycle. Hire some guy next door to take a bike. You know and stop like that. I bet you can stop her card same guy in the car, you know stop slams on the brakes. You know it happens, also to be the streetcar driver as well. You know, so he stops and everything else. She says you know what you really have these powers. You should step in front of a train and try to stop him too. So, but that's just me being cynical, so yeah. Well, it's a good way to think, especially when you've pulled off what you've pulled off. And seeing what you've seen yeah yeah. You should have a show where you bust these mediums We have a show right now, but it's not really here. It's like you, said right networks, don't want to debunking

yeah, because that kills all their other show. Yeah. We had a show years ago where we came out and said it was all an illusion, but they called it magical miracle and gallo is on that show and they had cape blowing, yellow out of the water, basically Gallo, saying stuff that he denied he said later on, but they had the type of it and they could have shown that, but they wanted to keep that thing of magic or miracle, and I was Geller a fraud griller trick people careful how you say this because he love to sue people. Ok, but he started to stop people right now that he's the world's greatest magician, but he's got to be careful with that because he sued people who said that he was a magician and everything else. It is my opinion from everything that I've seen and the times that I've watched in that he is cheating and he is using tricks. And I know for a fact I know for a fact he uses some of my methods now as well.

I also know when I was working on the show phenomenon um first time I told this story ever so So I went on a tv show for not phenomena. It was finding the next year Yellow Criss Angel was on that show as well, and they were the judges on the show. And Geller calls me out of the blue, which was really unexpected. I've always been on the other side of the fence of gala, with Randy in the sceptical movement in an he calls me up and he says: hey Banacek. You know how you doing, I said I'm doing good He says. Well, you know, you're known as the guy that creates this stuff. You know every medalist working today is using a couple of your effects that you've created, and he says you know I only have like four five powers that I've had through the years and if anybody could come with a new psychic ability. For me it would be you and I went wow. How ball Z is that right here? pulling sort of like one of his typing, your full she's, hoping no he's hoping. I can create a new trick for him that he can

Well, the world is psychic right, but he's also must be hoping that you're not going to expose them well, this is the great thing like even right now, when I'm saying this, this is When you hang up, you know I go. Why would he do that? I thought. Well, it was just a phone call between me and him. He knows I wasn't expecting us, I'm not recording him. It's my word again. You can say that I misunderstood that Maybe he wanted me to come up with an idea of something use a psychic powers, so there's many ways you could spin it when we work with Chris and Chris One is episodes had Geller on there and Chris put a spoon on the table and he said you know, can you can you bend up and he said no he's,

well, why not? He said: well, my billies aren't working right now. So if you bent it right now, it would be a trick right in early, so I can't bend it right now. He says: well, if you did bend, it would be a trick right and Gallo says well yeah. If I bent it right now, it would be a trick and Chris is like got him. I got him you know and when he walked by said you don't have him, he said what do you mean? He just said it was a trick. I said no, he never said it was a trick. He said if he to do it. In that moment, it would be a trick because his psychic abilities weren't working. He never says he knows how to do it. It's a trick. He just said it would have to be a trick. Sure enough. I together later on. He says you know, I didn't say that I use tricks right. I go yeah, I know you know he's clever. He select very, very clever and very very slick, so I I you know I think he's harm science and took it back and it was one of these things lightly. I think why we had to do what we had to do with the time, because science was going in this very weird pseudo science direction. I mean that was back in the days when you had pyramids. That would basically put a razor blade supposedly in it, which often is

get all the period meant power and yeah yeah. I kind of remember that all of that stuff was put things in the pyramid to sharpen them yet yeah I didn't in war with yeah. So it's all pseudoscience, but it was all this. You know people wearing tinfoil, hats and tin, foil. It says. Well, you know. The whole thing went on and on and on and on it was a list of just pull idiom. Whatever happened to pop off of this. Recovery disappeared. Oh he's back on every night. Now you can find him on every night. Now the difference is this right, so he was one of the first. Wants to send out and you've probably seen them. He would send out these letters that look like they were handwritten. It's uh, Now we look at we know, is on hand written in the printed, but back then you were aware that it looks like it's a hand, written personal to you, and I would get because I just signed up when I was it. Was there that day? I We get an outline of a foot where this in your shoe and a rap it up with twenty dollars, fifty dollars or one hundred dollars. Whatever you put in you get ten fold back here, you know you got,

this little piece of water and it came from Bethlehem and you know where that around your neck and then rapid. With money and send out send that back. So he was making most of his money, not at the events. He was making it on the mailing, so that's where they were making really making all their money took a few years for him to disappear like about three four years to him disappear and never listen. I try, after this night show yeah yeah and then he came back, but the difference is now he's not using any of those it's more of a thing that he's on the air and he's going somebody out. There has a headache right now and I'm going to help, kill you if your migraines and you don't have to if you just on television yeah, you don't have to do anything right. You just have to point. There's a heart attack right now in Jesus going to stop it just stop that heart attack, that's right in our guys. Yet so Jesus is having Harper and you know that, and it goes away is like. Oh my gosh. I just failed me to send money leader, Pepsi, absolutely yeah, so that's

he's doing now, which is uh. I don't know. I just say I don't think any of these things. We should be tax exempt or anything like that. So that's, what's terrifying! It's terrifying is that their tax exempt in obviously a fraud like how is the government so lax in that? I don't know. I don't it's. Even this whole thing of like not for profit organization, right. I mean you know they most of them just fraud. There fakes, as far as I think you should have, prove that a certain percentage is actually going to the cause. Yeah. This is me five percent one, and you can only have x amount of employees. A restaurant all in tears in the pre employees can get paid. A lot of money for non profit should show the certain amount of points. Maybe the present this in this. They can only make x amount of dollars in a non profit organization. They can't make more than that or you lose your nonprofit status because your self sufficient at that point yeah. No, I I agree with you totally. It's is very disturbing to me that I mean looks I Entology Sudan sued I mean they became non profit. And they are, or rather they became tax exempt because there

Well. They had so much money. They had a religion. Every members money was pulled to be able to sue anybody to the point to where you couldn't win right. Well, Well, they were suing so many people that the IRS just gave in right. Yeah I mean it's really fascinating. It's how they did that they actually fought the IRS and one right, but they got that money from the people that there the congregation so. Incredible story really and it's just it's yeah that it's so obvious I mean when you got a minute. There's there's religions right We don't know the origin of mean. We really don't know who was the original writer of this scroll less accurate, that finding Kumar on? We don't know who wrote is too long ago right, but with the RON Hubbard detained video, if you know the no got video, the guy saying hey. If you want to make a lot of money, yeah start a religious on religion, yeah and he did and and yeah? I would think that when you have the captain's outfit on with ribbons, he gave himself in metals like well in all its that's

yeah, which is the problem with this stuff, is so dangerous, is just so so dangerous in the wrong hands. You recognize that it's dangerous 'cause! You understand how easy people are to be manipulated right, 'cause, you been stud This your whole life, and you and you you know in a form but you do a show, what Really genuinely appreciate is the way you and the way Penn really go out of their way to say that this is a trick. This is bulshit where bull shiting, you I'm not showing you spooky, I got in a lot of trouble for that in my early days of performing mind reading, awesome the moment that I came out and I would say to because to me I think when you come out and you tell people, it's not real and you can still and they want to tell you that has to be real right. That means something right. That's that's impressive to me. I think that's really impressive. There are a lot of performers who are not good performance. They start out not as good performance. And they need the people to believe in them in order to get away with the trickery right

and they never lose that they always want people to believe it's a trick and was so when I saw it coming out and I started saying: hey it's magic, it's viable! It's nonverbal communications! All this stuff makes together create a show. I'm not a psychic. There is absolutely nothing psychic about what I do. There were quite a few mental In the mentalism field back then, there wasn't as many as there are now who were upset with me, don't I said if you are a psychic man, the best way to hide it to say you're, not a sidekick right, yeah. No, that would be true, that's not the case. So, what's up with the nails, I don't know 'cause we're. Hours in here tell me what's up with these nails taken now. Ok, alright, alright! So this is what I want you to do. I'm just going to have to describe what's happening. Ok, so This is one of the very first things I started doing Joe is this like the nail, which will look at the Nolia nail, and I want you to watch what happens. Ok, I'm watching what happens? Oh, my god, you're bending it! This is incredible.

And as you can see, the nail is actually slowly slowly. Bending outrageous, I like his shaking your hand too yeah, showing your powers and the thing about that. Take a look at. It is not a trick. Nothing like that. I mean everything I use from silver ware to forks to anything. They do is actually slowly do that now, that's yeah now, but I will write it out. Yeah I was at the. I was at the very end right there like that. I can't I can't do that so here, yeah another one. Maybe yeah, I'm assuming it will skip, got some forks yeah. I got some forks, so I want you. I want you to point to a fork. Anyone ever this one, you want it or you want me to have that one I'll take that will take it alright, so so you've heard of people? We talked about people actually, bending silver ware right can, I have been studying.

Now that one that you know you can't do this when I want I'll give you something, even if looking forward that I'm less, I know what you doing give me that fork yeah. You gotta fork that cycle ship four. Now you can have that fork! John! Let's take you a fork, much joke trying to get this phone to bend, not watching yeah. So let's go for incredible trying to get this wonderful crab and. What kind of techniques are you using? Sir? These are cherry. Tell me right, then I'll track forks well, we're going to eat with these. So those are. Those are actually one hundred percent genuine forks, but you can tell me how you're doing it it's slight of hand. That's as much as I can tell you. Ok, let me do it again, so I can watch some more time. Do you want to watch one more time? Ok,. House of like a bull, fake fork. Non d at these are legit. If I was sitting with me and I'll show you it's not

now it's easier, if I'm sitting with you, so let's do to tell yeah. So what's this one ready, hey, we got what's on Friday March, okay, so I'm gonna shake it like that right. You know what? Let's do it this way? Can you it's a way for? Can I move this yeah so hold both hands? like this, and I'm just going to hold it right there. I want you to hold that in and hold that information to make it. We want to hold this in as well. Ok, then, I'm going to hold it right in the center right. There, ok, you're, rubbing it watch. Are you heating it up? Wait, wait, don't don't don't don't don't force, it don't force it let's hold it okay, can you feel it yeah, because it's a different kind of metal? No, it's not! Yeah you're, you use in some sort of figure out what metal. Now it's hard again right because heating up right. Is that what it is now watch

get this one a break mmhm, but I'm a lot now right, because it's simple should us model. I promise you it's not I have Dv Ds out that teach magicians how to do this. Of course you gotta be magician, know where to get it and it uses any fork anywhere anytime, a promise you, but I got mine to bend now. That's good, let me bending it this way, if they were made out of special metal, I would never let you keep thinking they would be too expensive, but this one is going to twist all the way around and that one is not made a special channel it's regular metal hold on, I gotta concentrate show. Do you psychic for real? What kind of wizardry is that, sir? He spun this around and printer, not the thing is he's not going to tell you how he does it? That's the real problem. You tell me that it's bullshit won't tell me how you doing this bullshit variant.

Well, you know what that there's different techniques as the thing right I mean it, and- and I really hope you can come see- show some. I would rather I do things like IBM one person. Other person feels that I tell people in it like name a number you any number at all? Ok, go ahead. Thirteen, ok and would be a common number for a lot of people to choose sure you know there are specific If I said to you think of a number name, any word with seven letters or less go ahead. Ok, go ahead! Can't of course, most people would just most people that a common word. You know, that's not a common word. No, mostly what she's in love all have something like that. You know how long those lines a you know: a dog or cat a really right and ones, but but his his the interesting thing: okay, okay cell inside this wallet, Did you give up on the word because I'd I had chosen one not yet inside this wallet didn't see. I was driving when I was driving around on it right and someone caught

Often you know what doodling is doing. You kind of without even looking mmhm and as you notice inside the here, you open it up, tell me what's on there, so you know don't want to touch it was it say. To read yes, my handwriting and doodling. This is a thirteen cont yeah. It does ship well it's such bad handwriting that I gotta think that you wrote that underneath the table thirteen right and yeah yeah wrote under the table, while we're doing this would end up inside the wallet 'cause you shoved it in there now. This is try this. What's that one alright will try this. I can't promise I'm going to be able to do ok, you know what I got both of you in here. Let's do this: ok, yeah yeah! We do scan a bunch of cards on sale. Your cards right that is crazy, low, total revenue, thirteen account written on the piece of paper, I'm gonna watch your hands closer yeah, I'm a friend, of course, at Joe

Ok, I'm not picking traffic right. Now, I'm going to have you pick one I will I am it's sort of I'm going to find it, I'm not going to fanning 'cause, I'm not a magician right. Let me show you the cards limit. You know addition elemental lesson which I'm going to and the cards. I want you to think of any card, you see any card. I say you get one. Ok, you see it. Yes, you get a red card. Excuse me: did you get a red card? Yes good, since you got a red card, I'm doing with your across the table. I want you to think of me getting black card. Ok, you going! Alright, I'm going to ask one question: 'cause I have to question, sometimes try to figure out exactly what it is thinking. Ok did either one of you choose a high card. Yes, no, ok, hi cards are hard for me to get, but I will try. Alright look at me. Don't dumb dumb, you gotta write card, I'm going to say your card is pretty hearts.

You card over, their name is black; yes, probably spades nailed it to a spades. Yes, hearts, king hearts, yeah yeah! Well, let me see that deck of cards we only had three choices. Yeah I had a queen of spades in eight of spades in a two of spades and I switched from the queen of spades before you. That question higher low. I went let you went low, he went alone yeah. Why is that? Because I thought it was because I thought as a long time I thought I was going to be mine. You thought I was going to go high. There's a lot of these kind of thing. His verbal nonverbal, which MAGIC psychologist, a mixture of all kinds of different things to open up a spoon at sun touch it and yeah. I did that. I definitely want you to come with one of the MAGIC castle tonight. By the way, are you you're welcome to come. If you want to go to comedy store, oh yeah, you working out yeah, I'm working what time you working there rather come see you so I'm not working

not not gonna go hang out, see some friends and what kind my scrubs is actually different valentine. I don't know if you know Steve as an actor. No, I don't really graves in crossing Jordan. Stuff like that. He's got an interesting story about his life and it's something psychological thing as well, which I'm always fascinated with of where he was performing magic for years constantly performing magic and he wanted to be an actor in the magic was kind of a side thing for him, but it started getting away. He'd go on interviews and stuff, and they say you know. I want you that guy. That does kid shows. I want you to do a party for me and so forth, and he could never get so we started denying that he was a magician. I just totally left magic, completely people say yeah. I got your business card now, that's not me that wasn't me and that's when he started to be able to act. He started getting the acting jobs and everything it wasn't till years later that he could go back can be a performer wow and it's a really interesting story, but he does it with magic and teaching and things and yeah. You never worked comedy magic club in her Mosa. No, no never have no yeah

interesting because he mixes comedy and magic together. Yeah. We have like a magician on the auto with media yeah. That was a few of those back in the days that I worked where it was comedy magic club type thing. So, yeah, it's a good nights. Do you ever teach this stuff? I teach to other magicians. I have still have to be like videos and stuff I books, so I definitely do teach, but I don't teach one on one. I never teach. I just don't have time to teach one, I'm always so busy working and trying to teach like this stuff like how Do these things the metal bending? I have DVD's out on that that each magicians how to do that yeah, yeah yeah yeah! I promise you they are not trick forks. Those are not right. Now is not trick. Forks, they're, yeah! Well, just the fact that you could spin a regular fork right. This way have fun doing that man it sort of became the holy GRAIL for me when I can tell you how that came about. For me, there was muscle wacky code. I told you that he could actually put it under a chair and he would put it in something and twist it

who is doing an article for the national Enquirer. I don't even think I could do that with just my hands and that's what's confused, and the guy shows up you yeah. There was a way and the guy shows up, but after talking with shows up for me- and he said I want you to bend some software, so you know I I go you know and I you know I go to him. You know and I go Ok, alright, I'm going to bend something. So I take one and I go like this and next thing you know it's bending up like that, and then I do another band He says this is going to take awhile. Isn't it I go yeah, he said just put him up with your hands like oh well, that's cheating, which is exactly what I was doing so I said he said cheating. So he says now go ahead, so I just start bending off like crazy, crazy and next thing. You know I had a twist- and I remember exactly how I got that twist. So

call Randy on the phone because it was sort of the holy GRAIL thing. Looking for a way to actually do it and I went in there. I had one of those telephones had the long cord all the way in the bathroom, and I call brandy up and I'm whispering them and say hey. I just been a forward with my hands to put a twist in it and he goes yeah. So what I can? No, no and I explained exactly how to do it and now all the medalists used that technique yeah. So this was a regular fork. Yes, and you twisted that right in front of my face with one hand yeah, hum, oh, how the fuck you did it. You know supposed to know he's supposed to enjoy the mystery Joe, alright. Well, I'm trying know that you can be fooled, it's very confusing, so I could be fooled so easily 'cause. This is a real fork. I now know that there's a certain forks that they make out of shity metal and look heat it up and it becomes like super bend. Yeah, that's something that they don't want to get too much into methods and so forth, but that's definitely not something I use or would use and yeah that looks just a little weird, but it would have jerking off work.

I'm trying to get a demonic, ejaculation that may or may not do it the thing about as weird as that. How easy that fork bent when I bend it when you had it. It was very strange, the one bed that real easy. When I bend it and he said well, you do it on your own. It was so easy to bend right like. Why would it? Why is it so easy to bend? And I'm can't tell you why at that moment? But if you look now, that's that fork right there and take a look at it and see if it's easy to bed now you'll see that it's not even the heat in this far but it's because at that moment that's the one that I was going to break. I wanted to break that one. It's very confusing it's a job! Well, it's amazing! Really, because it you let people actually touch the things and someone like me who knows that you're doing a trick 'cause, you told me that you're doing a trick, and yet I still can't figure out

Will you see me work? You'll see I throw everything across the stage and a lot of stuff. I just leave from people afterwards 'cause. I want them to interact with those things. I want them to take them home yeah. No, I could imagine especially the forks yeah after awhile. You know- that's just He just sat, I mean you just sit and look at this fork afterwards, you like, okay, I don't think I could do that. Yeah I mean if I just gave you a regular fork Jamie. You think you could do that, spend that I don't think I could twist something like that. Remember we talked about the tv show, I'm talking, the tv show earlier there is. I have a pitch that's out right now for a series which looks like it may be going somewhere. So I don't say too much about it, but it's bringing back the million dollar challenge and it's going out to James Raymond, James Randi million dollar challenge. It needs to go out looking for psychics testing them under proper controls. If they're trying to trick us, maybe I'll, expose their methods demonstrate my abilities supposedly too

we do the exact same thing under certain conditions as well and it's sort of what makes me the expert to go out and try to find these things and see. What's really growing on it brain games meets meets the bunking meets psychic phenomena, but not every single one is going to be the bunk either it's going to be really the bunking. When somebody is purposefully going out and trying to bullshit somebody and trying to fool people or taking advantage of people, it's very baffling stuff that I mean the stuff about talking to be people and ask them questions and reading their cues. That kinda makes sense, but this doesn't make sense at all the fork stuff just does not make sense. Really weird, because a pk stuff is something as a mentalist. As a performer, you tend to pick your powers right. You tend to well you wouldn't because it on the Elmo, but what has performs ourselves? We perform this type of stuff. We go. Okay. Does that fit sort of? In the repertoire of my abilities to I have x, Ray Vision, you know I

DR because blindfolded you know, is it put dough in there? They put tape over that. We see me do something along those lines on your show, and- and it's this thing of like you, pick your abilities and this doesn't seem to fit with anything. Except that your yellow didn't do this and also said that he could duplicate pictures and read minds once in awhile as well. I didn't do too much of the minor eating, but did a little bit of it. Somebody would draw a picture, then he would draw a picture and they would match so, which is a standard mentalism magic trick. Anyway, but his methods were a little bit more boulder a little bit more direct yeah. I'm still baffled stop being baffled. How could I not be, new one Benson forks man, maybe maybe someday I'll teach you how to do all this and I'll tell everybody no one, and I won't tell you don't tell me- and I can't tell you can't tell if it's a tell everybody given the nobody's gonna be impressed when you do it well: okay, yeah! That's why everybody, though his

is there anything else that you can do that's fuckedup? I didn't really bring a whole lot. 'cause, I've kind of just wanted to talk more than anything else. I mean what you've done. I mean it's very, very impressive. Maybe I can do one thing for you. Ok, I don't know alright, so see these. You know what they are right, no the there the basically there's, no, basically, they basically five shapes that were Stanford Research Institute, I Duke University, actually not Stanford University, either created by CALL Xena, a simple shapes the square, the star we lines, a plus in the circle all right. These are that the standard shapes right there I'm to try to get you to choose a specific one. Now psychologically. If I ask you to choose one which would you say, like I mean I wish I didn't say, psychological, which wavy long wavy lines. That would be psychologically because it's right in the middle, and that would be the one right, so I'm going to go with the yeah, I'm going to go with a star

thanks, star, there's a circle. There's a square, the plus and the wavy lines are going to be some up, so you don't know which is which I'm going to look at them in just a second myself to make sure I know exactly where that is. Alright, we can do this as the gambling thing or not, but I don't like to do that. I could probably rip people off strong and put that in the right place. Ok, good! So this is what we're going to do. I'm going to take cars and I'm going to ask you: do you think the star is that card you All you have to do is not choose a star you're going to choose a star. You won't know why you choose star, but you will choose the star right now. Ok, so you won't have as well it's going to be something I do. Something I say or something it's going to be something, but I'm going to try it. I just want to make you pick the stuff may or may not work. Alright between tries sneaky bastard. Do you think this is? Do you think

I'm going to say. Yes, that's the star, you say yes, that's a start using. Ok, so you're supposed to say no, that's not the star at some point because you get your idea is not to pick the star. I want you to not pick this up to anyone, so if you think that's the star, alright, I will ok so you're just going to say, do you understand? yeah alright! So here we go. I know you're watching me close alright. So let's do it again whenever you flip them around, it makes up one more time. Does this sneaky hand movements are still can using watch. Okay, no sleep Hammons makes me sad. The spend so much time learning how to move your hands like that. So I so I'm I'm gonna, I'm gonna. Keep it simple, a really simple for you. It is my my opinion yeah. Why cut it already? So I want to do it again because our make make it perfect all right right. Your job is to not choose start bracket, not choose a star. Okay ready, all right, so

I guess I'll just ask you: do you want this card? No, alright, so that you don't want that. One don't want that one. Do you want that card where I don't choose a star. Yes! I want that one! You sure! That's the one! You want! Don't look! Ok! I look at look. I'll trust you. I didn't choose, you choose a circle when she was a plus, it didn't use the the wavy lines or the square he chose star. They look sounds a bit yeah yeah, but that's like hand right: huh huh. Well, what the hell is that what you're talking about which side of hand? I'm sorry, I can try it one more time hold on. Ok to do them in there. Alright, I hate doing this stuff like this, because, especially with the amount of people that are listening

this podcast slot. What happens? I don't know about Roger if I'm wrong, I look like an idiot. During the performance yeah somehow another. I think you're not going to be wrong. It could be so once again, I'm going to try and make you choose a star. Ok, ok, your job is to not use. It I'm not going to do it again after this is the last time I'm doing this right. Do you want that card? Yes, that's the one! You want! That's the one I want to keep in mind. You did that the first time yeah right, don't look! I don't look square circle plus wavy line. Stick, look. Dammit the star now? Do you realize that I'm impulsive and then I have no patience until I go for the star immediately did it the first time. So you thought that by doing it again that I would not think that you would do it a second time. Is that what you did so you sort of kind of not what I did

That's not going to tell us so now he's getting frustrated right now. No I'm very impressed. I'm very impressed. Well, listen man! This was a lot of fun. It was fun I enjoyed it and thanks again for doing the tv show. That was a lot of fun to an anytime thanks for being so well, you do but you've, cleverly navigated, the waters being so honest about it being tricks with not revealing the tricks and then I'm doing them in front of me, which is incredibly impressive. This fourth thing: I don't know what I don't know what to tell you other. Then this was fun. I enjoyed it very much. Thank you for everything my way and everything you do and your web is a bad check: dot com check, dot, com b, a n, a c h, e k and people to find out all your tour dates. All the fundamental dates, everything and yes, he this relative oaks got up. Thank you, sir. Yes ma'am! Thank you! Everybody! for tuning into the podcasts and thank you to our sponsors. Thank you go to Legalzoom, get your

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to Justin Brands, fight for the forgotten charity to build wells for the pygmies in the Congo. It's a fuckin' win win folks, and that's it that's it for today, tomorrow, my brother, the powerful Donald cowboy Cerrone very excited to talk to Donna and just hang out with him and have a good old time, and that will be tomorrow will see you soon