« The Joe Rogan Experience

#1172 - Morgan Fallon

2018-09-12 | 🔗
Morgan Fallon is a DP, director, and producer on the CNN documentary series "Parts Unknown"with Anthony Bourdain.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Hey everybody it is today is September 29th I'm going to be in Toronto, Canada, it was originally supposed to be the Reco Colosseum. It has moved to the Scotia bank arena. If you had tickets for the Reco they transfer over and then all the additional tickets because there is the scope. Bank arena is a larger place. It is there sold out. That's it go to Joerogan dot com for all that groovy details well, podcast is brought to you by Rev Town Jeans, Ref, Townusa, dot, com, Slash Rogan, to be wear jeans all the time and I like the way jeans, look and feel until I start moving around in them will finding comfortable, but all so good. Looking jeans you to be nearly impossible, but now it's not
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work together on Anthony Bordain show as well and had passed. He reached out and asked me if we could just get together. So you know sort of two guys who really admired Anthony, could given all to him and and just talk about what a great guy was one what an honor it was to know him in my friend Morgan's case to work with them. So other. Do please give it up for my friend, Morgan Fallon, the Joe Rogan experience the man good to see. I'm glad and we decided to get together and do this you know and and talk- and you know this is a crazy subject. Right I mean you and I have known each other since two thousand and twelve
when I did mediator, you were there filming when I shot my first deer, which is very and part of my life and and then you went on to direct and produce parts unknown with our late friend, Anthony Bourdain and which surprised big, good thing to come in here and just talk talk about him, yeah man and and I'm really grateful for it. You know it's actually. You know a lot of people of insanity like it must be really hard to talk about that, and this really it's. I actually find it kind of the opposite leg. I want to talk about him. I wanna talk about who he was and what that X. This was you know, so thanks ma'am, my pleasure brother did you did you know him before you guys start working together? No, no! I'm that tony ten years ago and uh, it's called in Kiana show who, at the last minute cancelled, couldn't go to Egypt,
So I got a call like a week before you know like do you want to go to? Anthony Bourdain yeah, absolutely right. You know, and and so I met him in Cairo- man's leg- wound kinda like perfect holy. That's like Indiana Jones, exactly the episode when you guys in a camel. No now we didn't need a camel now, but. You know uh met him there, you know start filming or on the streets of Cairo and, like you know, like all of a sudden is thrown into these kitchens, are like in pigeon, you know it's like go in cover them cooking, pigeon and get, and I had seen the show like maybe once before, but I didn't, I knew who he was and I knew what that adventure was right. You know- and I was so amped for it, and then there was this seminal moment on that show. Where we go out and we go ripping across the desert with the Bedouin and go out and cook a ago,
in the ground, you know and so as we're driving out over the desert like well, we need to do. We need some shots from car to car right now, like all get on the roof, you know and uh and there's like this four for some reason: there's a four post bed tide to the refer this site, Land Rover, and so I get up there and we kinda. Let me get a latch my arm around in these guys take off at I swear eighty miles an hour across the desert. I mean and you're on a bed. Absolutely absolutely no regard for the fact that, like I'm on the roof, you know shooting and when we got there we got to camp. I survived it at this big black. Blue, where I was holding on to the four post bed night. I go over in a show, Tony That moment on, it was he's like I like this guy
right and I started going out with him. You know I started getting invited to do more shows. So how was it how many years, ten years, wow ten years, yeah that's crazy? I didn't realize that it's unknown was. Even though, will you doing no reservations first yeah, so that was a no reservation show, and then we went to parts unknown five years ago, wow so parts. I know it's been on for five years: yeah yeah and not a you know that transition knows no reservation was great and it really laid the foundation for what we do. What Tony did, I think, really built an audience of falling for him. That's what I found out about right exactly is a great show yeah, I know, but that, like that transition going on to see and I'm going into parts on, no, not really that really change things that really opened up a lot of locations and stuff that we didn't have access to before
opened up. You know kind of CNN's logistics, rolodex, and you know things that we didn't have at the other network. You know, and- and so that's you know, no reservations was awesome. We did some incredible shows parts unknowns. We got really yeah. There was on another level. I remember watching the chains up there. Ok, this is more more him. You know to from the opening music to the tone of it in the narration yeah for sure, and then in you know, you got to and it to CNN to is like we all of a sudden. We had these creative partners who were like willing to let him be him you know like willing to let him do a show like the Tokyo show. Where were like, you know, really climbing into japanese subcultures rope bondage Nicole, pouring yeah. You know all this stuff that most net
work executives, probably little bit. Leery of you know, CNN was kind of like go for man be yourself and let's figure out what this is. Together, that's amazing. The really is amazing, and with the one of the things that really made that show was Tony's narration is the narration gave you a sense of the way, his sort of passion and enthusiasm for the world and for various aspects of cooking and travel and food and culture like you got it through his own words. You know yeah. I think that I mean it may be in some ways the most important aspect of the show. You know I mean he is, after all, a writer right, yeah, you know, and in that is how he experienced the world but actually making the shows and the technical part of actually making the shows. You know we'd once you go through and kind of edit. The show none of that voice over was in at
rough cut phase. You send it out to him and get his writing back and record that video. They keep describing is like that kind of doctor. Frankenstein lightning bolt to the temples kind of moment were like the monster rises, would really just bring the show to life so. This kind of carcass that was laid out in rough cut form on the table, all of a sudden, just gasped and jumped up, and it was really beautiful like to see that and to have You know as a direct are as a producer as a creative. You know it any level you know to have that kind of power yeah to have his voice and his writing and his introspection thoughts, and you know about what a flick, powerful, a powerful force to work with well was a brilliant design. The way the show was put together that narration really did make it something special and different from all those are the kinds of shows, because it just to his,
articulate and insightful and poetic and artistic view of these things that he MIDAS in fair his passion for things, heat completely change. The way I thought about cooking I had always thought about cooking is well. This guy knows how to make delicious food. Oh, this place has good ribs and then, when I saw he show when I saw parts unknown, I went oh, it's an art form is just an art form that you eat. Absolutely disgusting, temporary art form yeah in even beyond that it's an art form, that's that's! Taking and incorporating all of these greater kind of MAC social elements of you know where you are the history of where you are. You know what people did for a living, what people's ancestors did for a living? You know it, it's rooted in so much more in what I think you know
we kind of joke around a lot and say like yeah, it's a food showed us not a food show you know, but the reason that worked, I think, is because of what you're saying and you know if food food is an art form that incorporates all of these other aspects, and so it be a jumping point off for exploration into anything. You want to talk about yeah. We talked about the history of a place, the politics of a place. You know the religion of a place. You know all of these things that inform who people are well, that's all written into the cuisine of uh play certain area in know yeah, and he was into stuff that wasn't necessarily even like high. You know high doll items he was into like street food, definite yeah. It wasn't just the finest french you know, bistros, where these liberated world famous shafts were cooking. These bizarre small plate so
of masterpieces. Now he would love St Tacos yeah. Absolutely I mean and again I think that was kind of like a toll new kind of fresh take on looking at food. You know It's easy to. You know to look at these kind of high end. French preparations use highly talented. You know highly trained french chefs and there's there's tremendous beauty and in all of those other things we talked about but too look at the woman on the corner. You know the you know the best lingua tacos, like that. Revolutionary and then the realization that all of that, all of that greatness, all of that new, Once all of that flavor, you know contain to write with in there. That was an access point to it as well. It's just an access point that everyone can afford.
Where everyone can go in, and you know I mean right place at the right time. I think that people like it seems like the culture at large was ready for that ready for that, like experience in food and ready to kind of change that 'cause now, I mean that's all anyone wants now. Well, I think it's because of him. I really do I really do it. I mean I'm sure that he changed the way. I look at things in terms of food and I think he that affect on many people. I mean you think about how many years does parts on known for five hundred and then no reservations for nine new reservations. Yet for ten, and then there was cooks to her before that, right, so original all told a decade and a half of his influence on people's food choices and just appreciation for food, I mean, I know personally, I've had some great meals in restaurants, but some of my favorite meals have been like stepping outside of a bar. You know it's:
one hundred and thirty got a little buzz on in some dudes got a taco truck in like oh baby. What do you got over there, my friend or in New York? You know it's late at night and there's a falafel cart and some guys got incredible. Kabobs like what about Street Food man, absolutely man and yeah? I kind of keep like like a loose running list of my favorite meals. You know, and and some of them are on the show- and some of them are not on the show and I'd say most of them are that you know most of them are accidentally stumbling into someplace, where someone is doing something completely awesome that isn't some massive twenty six course tasting menu. You know it's also about you know it's about place, you know it's about where you in the context of where it and what it smells like, what it sounds like what it looks like you know who you're with you know
and- and so you know, that's kind of, I think Another reason the show kind of worked as we had an opportunity to architect articulate all of those all of those elements. You know real to choose an increase, credibly, interesting guest to sit down with at a really interesting restaurant. With you know, people cooking over really interesting, back story in a beautiful place and and use the power of kind of the magic of tv to you know to polish it up and present. This version of, travel and food in the world that places in the S where people were cooking pigs in their backyard. I mean it was just gave people an understanding of the preparation of food in a view to chefs, and this view chefs as artists, I mean these chefs, look like tattoo artists. They look like you know, guys are painters or something or women who are
sculptors. I mean they're they're real similar in the way they they appear to what we consider artists. Absolutely, I think two I mean you know what I kind of love about, like you know at this point, spent a good amount of time in kitchens and good amount of time around kitchen graph, there's kind of two elements coming together: there's there's the the artistic element that you're talking about right, but there's also, this very you know very earnest working class kind of element to the way a kitchen works. You know this tough, hard, sweaty work, you know it's a rough environment, you know, and I and I think, that's kind of part of what makes it so appealing to see kind of pull back the curtain on on that. You know they say like these guys are. You know inaccessible icons of the
you know they are as much as bookies is awesome. You know they are these kind of rough and tumble. You know guys that are Tony also had this sort of punk rock sensibility to it. All to you know I mean that was part of the thing about him. That people found appealing is that they had seen cooking those before, but they never saw cooking shows where the host gets fucked up. You know dude. I was first time ipod, give him like this. Guy goes so hard. I was amazing to me It was amazing I was like. I can't believe you can do this all the time like, I think, one of the first times we ever got all together was in Montreal. We were there for UFC Fights and we went out afterwards and got we had some cakes, and it was just amazing walking into this restaurant and people freaking out, one guy actually had a copy of kitchen confidential in
and the actual kitchen itself and add Tony sign. It was pretty fucking bad ass. There you go, you do not remember Joe Beef, no and but he turned me on a job and I feed in there several times those guys are coming on the podcast too. I love the friends, Dave yeah now they're amazing at restaurants, one of my favorite restaurants, on the plan. No doubt yeah they'll hurt you yeah the keep the comments for sure yeah, give you an inch thick slab before garage, yes, well, there're show one of the ones that I really loved was the one where they did. I fishing there were on the water and they have this ice fishing shack. But inside the ice fishing shack they had find silver ware and find China and they bottles of really excellent wine and they were cooking on a wood stove. They had a wood stove and they were cooking fog. Wall Reich right there on the stove and and they were laying out what they think makes you a good dinner companion
and you know, Davis. Like I shut my phone off, I turned it off. I put it away. 'cause. I don't check it. I he goes. I don't put my elbows on the table I can I come prepared with stories and Tony's like you, preparing your stories. I have five stories to tell yeah. I come prepared like to him. It's like not really a per formance, but it's an agreement that you're going to go there and you're going to share this enthusiasm for this experience together and you're going to try to enhance it with your own anecdote. It's in personality and your own appreciation for the food and the wine and then after there's smoking cuban cigars. There's like the whole thing is it made. You want to go eat at a really good place: yeah Oregon You know in as in a shack on a you know: Rosen Lake, with with people who understand the visit, there's an l against all of these. Yes, you know the you can create an environment the that has not yet so that's you know, that's a that's like a whole,
hallmark of a lot of chefs that I've met through the show is like. You will see that no matter how big they got. No matter how successful there is an inherent kind of desire to please on multiple levels, you know you have like we were in Daniel Boulud ' House in France, his parents, house right and so here's Danny Blue, like the cash chef, you know, but like running around to all of the crew members like you have something to eat good. You want another glass of wine, you want to look, you know and it just in parent is nature is exactly what you're talking about this idea that you know they have this just ongoing desire to please their guest entertain to make sure that everyone's taken care, the curators of an experience, absolutely yeah yeah. You know an so to be able to run around
for ten years and explore that yeah. It was nice man, man, I can only imagine yeah. I can only my how many shows did you guys film together? I don't you know I'm. So I don't know if fifty seven or sixty something like that and somewhere in that area. So I mean listen. There are people. You know at ten years on the show I was on the show for a long time. There's people lot longer is people who did the whole seventeen year. People done well over one hundred dollars Were you with him And when it ended, no, no, I was with him better a week and a half before. No, good friends that were there I was in Chicago, and I woke up in a check. My phone and I got a text from my friend Maynard Maynard Keenan
from Tool and Maynard is a Jiu Jitsu Brown belt and Billy loves Jiu Jitsu. Any any text me said so much for the. Maynard versus Anthony Bordain. Celebrity jujitsu match and in out of sunk Sagat Pit in my stomach in I notice I just picked up my phone. I went into Google and I saw it I just like oh fuck. I couldn't believe it, I couldn't believe it. Start crying,
I texted him a call. My wife called a few friends and like. You know just couldn't believe you know when someone's just not there anymore. We get to see him a lot, but I was just appreciate: Look at that dude. You know I don't want to do any buddies tv show, but when I got a call him I was like fuck yeah. What do they're going to shoot, pheasants in hunt and camp were going to cook by the campfire fuck him n dude. I'm in. I just really appreciated him as a genuine, unique person. Like is a genuine rare person, and you know that's what I got at being being able to spend some time with him and being able to talk to him and pick his brain, and he did my ipod.
That's once we always planned on doing it again wish we never got around to it. Cuz we're both have ridiculous schedules, but this might, I would think about things differently because of him I got my. I would sometimes like hold things to his standards and each elect legitimately his appreciate asian for things in his enthusiasm for things change the way. I look at a lot of a lot of aspects of food and culture and even travel. You know yeah, I mean I'm sorry and I yeah, and I know he thought very highly of you and not was that experience Montana was fantastic so far on some, you know I. It's been, it's been a rough three months and it's still hard for me to really contextualize it and put it together. It feels like you, know, upside down world. Like there's,
and he was such a thing as a friend and collaborator- and I you know, but also just such an icon- to me you know- and it's almost Like you know, it's almost like the sun disappears. You know something, that's something that is so just inherently part of life there dependable and you know so yeah I mean it's been it's hard to describe how how profile been remember when he got just too I got side cuz, I don't like. We have more to talk about now I can. Actually, I could actually show shit. You know he was always asking about things you know, he's really good at things remember when we were in Montana, we were rolling around on the dirt, showing her stuff him and Josh. Look like when you're in here like here's. What you can do
You can get any's like oh yeah, it's like he was so wide eyed. You know, I think it was before even got his blue belt or maybe like around blue belt. So he was super super jack. About it and he was doing it every day. I remember when we were filming. We were outside of billings is that we were where were we yeah? Well we're the hunt ones yeah with the hunt we're in like a up in central Montana. You know so we kind of started in billings, but we had up towards some Montana. He was training so often in even on the road that he traveled to a club. There was just a Jujitsu club in Bozeman and he found some guy. Is wrong with these guys in Bozeman yeah. Definitely like damn. We do it every day, so that was a good day for a long time and that was a mandate and we find the local. You know the local clubs and make sure that he had a place or roll
texted me from some European Bloc countries that he was shitting bone bone chips. 'cause. He worked out with some old school Carlson Gracie guys they don't believe in rolling light. It's all top game and smashing you and I'm shitting bone chips, but I I admired that a guy could be fifty eight years old and decide I'm going to learn Jujitsu and I'm going to be access with it and then he became addicted to it, which you know. Jujitsu is a very beneficial thing to be a day. Two, but it is absolutely an addiction. I've. I've come back from injuries where I definitely shouldn't have been training yet and I just got my arm up and just fucking get in there. People get super super addicted to it and he got addicted to it. Just like he's been addicted to many things. He he jumped right into the jujitsu experience. Yeah man. But I'm glad he did it was internet is clearly like really good for him to us. I mean I know very little about your jet, so I know what I know from,
You know we got so slim yeah, he lost all that weight also need a six pack up smoking yeah. Those are those are big things man and it look right. You know you got Staten's, there's no longer on any sort of medication, lawsuit lost all that weight cut. All carbs out it was just eating like protein, crazy man, he looks so good. He did look good. They look good, and I also just I you know. The whole thing is kind of indicative of the way he was. I mean he he did things so passionately yeah. I don't know whether it was travel, the world and soaking up all these experiences or just or whatever He was into something if something caught his attention. He was just so aggressive about knowledge, learning what he could pulling everything out of it that he could
This is crazy to see someone do something. That's not physically demanding at fifty eight, with no background in athletics at all, like could see when he was like, even when he was doing things like when he went to Kerr Sanders Place and was rolling around like you, don't have a background, Abby just pushing himself to it, yeah, yeah and again, I think those truths everything yeah. Now I mean if he, if it was something that was interesting him, he just went down Hannah, he loved it. Man was crazy and I I said you know I remember texting, I'm going like how deep you getting into it goes real fucking deep and he goes, but he goes. He goes, I'm getting tapped out every day, but he goes and given guys half my age of real struggle and he goes. And I'm loving it yeah. He talked about that a lot I mean, I think he talked about like the the failure as much is anything else. He would love that going in and you know getting smashed yeah but again
to his credit, you know which show up in these places. You know, does my mind manner or you know I mean I think he rolled in Butte, Edward Butera, hit in town man. Listen, I love you too. I love you too much respect to anyone from Butte, but man that's a hard hitting town. You know, he'd roll into this real cowboys is yeah. You know and and get the shit kicked out of him and show up on set all you know, sore bruised and oh man, yeah and then just jump into that. It's just different for a guy who's. Fifty eight, I mean you got a guy. Does it twenty? I admire anybody who does does Jujitsu It's real humbling ego dissolving experience in a lot of ways. Makes you realize, like all your illusions of how well you can defend yourself to go out the window and some just chokes you easily and great, I'm just a bitch wanna. Run around this life. Thinking, I'm a man, but the fact that he did it at fifty. Eight just showed. What kind of Unusual duty was yeah, but what you just
talked about there. I mean we're talking about with, like the ego, diminishing aspect of it again. I think that that was something that he took great pleasure in, and I think that you know you look at the way he went through the world. One of the thing is the you know. I appreciated right off the bat and one of things that kept me around. As long as I stick around, you know the fact that it didn't you know for Tony. I I think that he was constantly trying to do mantle that persona, you know to say, like I mean I'm, not the focal point of this scene yeah, what I'm the what we're interested in here. What I'm interesting talk about is out there. That's yeah cameras pointed away from you know Brian. He was kind of clearing house for all that information and he was the route the show and it was his journey, but you know ultimately, you know what was thing is he wasn't like working with some celebrity or host? It was completely consume
by their own ego, you know Brandon and how they were presented to the world. That's so disgusting right now, yeah, it's everywhere point everywhere, yeah he was very self deprecating and he had reverence for real artists and real masters and the total reference yeah. I came across yeah cross. I texted him about some guy. There is a photo of a a restaurant and I'm sure it's to on my phone, some dude who's, like a a real famous guy who's, like some big time, chef character. When I was eating in this restaurant and so like for because this guy, I guess, seems like it's a big deal, and so I texted him the photo of this cat right here. Do you know that guys was that guys name? So I said user guide. Says Marco Pierre White made Ramsey cry like a bitch. All time original rock star chef, genius, madman, the original punk, but that kind of text like that's
Yes, a tony Bordain text. That's that's what that text shows that reference yeah for the master. You know I mean even the way he phrases it. You know made him cry like a bitch, all time original rock star chef, genius, madman, and and and that's the way it would be. What was what worked about that? Is? He had a like an instant ability to sniff through the bullshit. You know so you know there is listen, there's all kinds of famous people celebrities and you know well accomplished people he Matt that he didn't feel that way around. You know he would cut through that shit instantly. But if you were on his radar in that way, you know like total commitment what you do you're in or you're out, yeah the Anti Board Anglo Saxon. Do you want to be in I, and now we have a list of people as well
cool list via yeah. Well, I've just hanging out with them. You know like it one of those he was one of the ones that I met that I was like pretty starstruck like right away. I said some stupid, like my wife, says you're my boyfriend as I watched a show all the time she would just joke around. How are you watching boyfriend on tv like it's great skies, Great Lee Malone but like when we are in Montana That's when I always knew how hard he went, but when I was blue fast it out of my mind and he was like where's that bottle where's those joy. It's a nose like Jesus ma'am yeah like I can't even I'm hang on to the earth here. Yeah it was a late night yeah. I was that when the I mean yeah, Listen there like in all fairness, not every night was quite like that. You know that we had a lot of fun that night for sure it was really fun and a really interesting, thoughtful dialogue around the campfire with super Land, Tony from backwoods country, hunters and anglers, and all this other guy?
is there with us. You know these guys who it was good to get a different perspective on what going out and getting your own wild food is like you know not having him cook it there and it was delicious yeah. It was awesome and but not in the mood, also being able to put those ideas on like a major network comprised pretty rare me. You know, yeah kudos to CNN for having the Cajon is to put together that kind of a show and have it on. You know, big time and again I and when I say this is the best creative partners you can ask for in terms so that you know you really enjoyed it, that wrist yeah. That was the dream of you. Do what I do. You know you are interested in make documentary television, you know, that's it! Man Instead, how did it wind up at CNN where there are some other options? 'cause? I know he had a giant, prow on the travel channel, because I know he had told me that they, they fucked him over
did some Cadillac ad yeah yeah. I know he's really pissed about the Cadillac and what what? What? What? What are you know honestly? I don't really know a lot of the details of the whole. Sorry, I don't know what other deals around the table beside ST I'm, but it's safe to say that the I think the relationship with Travel channel's toxic before that you know I mean travel channels are religious own place at least was. Don't know, if still is, I think the original people that owned it, because my friend Bert Kreischer has a show over there had a show where there are couple shows birthday conquer and what was his other show hurt. Bert yeah, she's, crazy asshole, but you know Burt had issues with that too, like when he would be on the show, if we'd all be hanging out together. If you wanted to smoke, pot had to make sure that Jamie turn the camera away from because they couldn't see him yeah yeah for sure you know, but and listen I don't have any like inside information, so this is purely like my outside perspective. I don't do the deals and I don't deal in that stuff and make the shows but
You know I saw a network that was more interested in making, like you know, shows about sandcastles. You know and ghosts you know that doesn't have a budget go show a lot of gosh us yeah, you know shows, are popular really popular man, so stupid, yeah, dumbest, fucking, shows on television and there's like one hundred of am. But the thing is if you're watching everybody scared of ghosts. So you're watching and in some people and there in the basement, and they have night vision on an they pretend they see something like what are they seeing as there a fucking real ghost, cuts to commercial and then all sudden, you're hooked and you watch timer show it's a hook after hook after hook it is the craziest weirdest thing it's one of the weird things on television just imagine having to shoot those shows. Could you imagine trying to make him interesting, like you,
Saddam going around some old house slick with night vision. You know China is out of here. Now I mean look, you got you went from mediator, which is an amazing show and parts unknown and no reservations and so you have. These three amazing shows but you wanna go show now that was it that might be a nightmare that maybe something I dream about, sweat sheets. You know, no man, I'm you know. Listen. I still work for zero point zero. You know. Hi Morgan Morgan found it's MIKE from finding big foot. Listen, I'm not coming back for season! One thousand we're going to find in this year. Please,
Lord! We love what you did with twenty four day and we think you could do that with Bobo. You know what here's the thing they don't they don't want that they don't want. They don't want. Cinematography and are you know they want the Ellison and they want some kid producer director, Slash cinematographer that they can. You know they don't they don't want? What we do you want think Bigfoot noises yeah yeah and I'm still like. I said, I'm still with zero dot zero Tony's long term in a long time, production company, we do awesome work in a ton of awesome stuff. Lined up, will be same, but are you going to do more stuff with Steve at mediator, I'll go out with Steve anytime? He calls. I just need a little more chance warning these days. I think they called me last week to see if I want to account now you do that. Would you try to get in shape? First, like like heavy duty, yeah? Absolutely that's the last time I went out with him. I got my ass kicked, let's fuck it Ralph. If you kidding man dude he's got, I mean talk about a guy with, like
here's, no empathy. What so cover for for the people he's with who maybe I keep up with him and when it's like, if you can make that hike you just not making that hike you yeah now he weighs one hundred and ten pounds and he can walk for days. Yeah and he's been doing this since he was a baby yeah, exactly no man, I went the Last time I went out with him was uh, I guess. Two years ago I went up to Alaska, did the black tail hunt, but we actually had nice weather, which was kind of unbelievable 'cause. I know you been up there when it's like ten days, Rain coming design is yeah. We had a little early last time was there because the storms come and we had to make a decision. This is because I'm coming every time we got there, we were gonna be able to get out. There was a possibility right they settled yet he was like, even though we're rain soaked. I want to the last six hours, because if we stay the last day, never know that might be and that's so many times. That's that's when you
look up with an animal. Absolutely I mean in my experience up there is an animal sounds like the wrong thing really wrong, because animal in yeah, no ma'am. You know it lately with that's exactly the way it was. You go up there and you'd be in just six days of rain. All of a sudden. You know the fog, a clear and there's some. You know new octyl stay. And right there looking at you. You know that a lot of baron here too yeah tons of bear. No, but You know I got my ass with the last time I went up there. First, I went up there. I was still in shape. You know I was younger yeah. I did pretty well we're doing it all the time you have to do it all the time you have the hiking thing is I mean you're. Basically, building up this endurance in your legs, you only get from hiking absolute. Yeah hiking endurance is no joke. If it seems like it's a joke, 'cause, if you hike for like five feet, it seem like nothing. You climb a small hill, yet I could do this all day. You
I think you could do it all day. You do that for twenty minutes, you start he even you'd be drenched in sweat. You want to take your jacket off and then you realize, like oh, my god, I have to do this for eight more hours eight more days, yeah and then in the morning and then, if your immune system is at all tax, it's going crash hard. You might get sick, yeah man Like you said you can't train for it. You can't train for that kind of back country stuff. You can go out and run up and down. Stairmaster or whatever, but that doesn't mean it doesn't rain. All like those little muscles that you use to constantly stabilize yourself. You know, Sir Russell help a little. It was a stairmaster help, a little blue, really house, major muscle, gathright running hills. Helped me yeah help me a lot yeah just because it's so much harder than hiking he's run. You could do it easier, makes hiking easier liking with waited packs on to Jerry. Do that? Oh yeah yeah! That's what we do,
but I mean I just like for training just for training yeah. I would on the stairmaster action figure, I'm guessing the stairmaster with yeah yeah. No, I put weight somewhere pack and go in the stairmaster and boots No, we boots on the master. Did they let you do that? The gym where they look at you weird, reliable and looks at you weird, my god. If you, talk about hunting in LOS Angeles like I think, what the fuck that guy got camo on form, yeah she's Christ. Did you wear camo at the gym? right. I feel like I may have had some camo aspect of my pack, of course, but blood stains. No, I if you know it's interesting, though, to get. I think back on those times like you know like what we're talking to like all the shitty weather and all that stuff, and I just think back to that the first time I went out with Steve him saying like yeah, but you won't. You know never tell stories about the good days. You know
I gotta say to his credit. That's been absolutely true is like those those shitty days freezing cold. You know getting out of your getting out of your sleeping bag in the morning and putting on wet clothes, cold, wet clothes to go to go out and hunt all day. You know look back on that with like a great degree of fondness, and I also have to say it made me. A lot more of a person than I was before. You know, toughens you up it show me up at open me up to the idea of it. To accepting. You know possibilities for myself that I had never thought of before you know, like your capabilities, your capabilities, you know Did we like. We all have that somewhere back down in the brainstem. This idea This ability to just go out in the woods, and you know, hunts, can eat it.
Oh, and up until that point I had never done that done. Some hiking in some camping was always on, like trails and they're all nicely marked and stuff, like that, the idea of stepping out of Steves the back door seeds cabin and just into the woods at that time. For me, when I first did it that was completely new is like well, you can just walk into the woods like what you want. You mean when were you going where? Where do we go right now and then to do it and have it be successful in to bring that animal back into sit around and eat it and all this stuff? That was a real, huge ha ha moment for me personally and professionally, like we can do shit that we used to do ten thousand years ago. What was big for me too. I remember saying that, on the show like when Steve was asking me and Brian on the first hunt, which, just by sheer luck, we whole successful on the on the first Hunt and Steve is like: do you think going to do it again? I said fuck yeah. I'm doing this forever, like I knew
yeah, he was when did you know? I said the moment that deer dropped the moment. Dear drop him like ok, I'm doing this forever. This is how making getting my meat now I'm going to do this yeah man, it's it's I don't know there's so many just like really glib interpretations of like the motivation behind hunting. You know I'll sit, cruelty and blood loss it's like, because in its worst cases is that's true yeah and because I do think that hunting shows for years, that's a lot of what they put forward was like kind of machismo and guys shooting you know black bear is over. You know, donut barrels, you know for all the wrong reasons, at least we think of that is something that people, or at least I do think of that- is something that people eat for food when you think about cc like Cecil the lion like that kind of shit really sours people on the idea of hunting, because there's no joke suffocation for the average person for shooting a lion I mean you have to. You- have to do decades of edge
asian about conservation in the importance of the money that goes to the heart, and then they still don't get it because like. Why would you want to shoot a line? And that's a good question right. The question is why we once I let it you know- and I would say it's a good question for me to like. I definitely have limits. You know as much as I went around with Steve. I have limits on what I would personally choose to do, and I gotta say that Africa stuff for me ma'am, I just at its non interest. You know the only thing that's interesting to me in Africa would be to hunt something that I would eat. So they have a it'll open in Africa. I would love to hunt in analog this hunting, antelope and cook it and eat it. That to me makes sense. There is no way I want to shoot a hippo or a anything else. I mean even if people do eat hippos, and I understand they do- that. Ok, good luck, yeah, I don't. I don't wanna have nothing to do with any of that. Now many other, but but game animals that have been dead,
delicious Neil guy things like that yeah the people of Eden forever and that they they hunt just like the hunt, elk or deer here that to me makes sense, it would be just a adventure to go to Africa, Africa, so scary, it's so scary! I love, I mean see I'd. I love Africa and I became like I kind of took all the Africa shows. I could on parts unknown really that's would you like it. So much was mostly wonderful place. I well. First of all, I think, there's like a, I think. Is that there's a lot lot of misperception when it comes. I've never had a negative experience there. I've had maybe one experience. It was kind of quasi. Threatening you know we gotta yeah, I mean you know we had a crowd, turn on us and throw rocks at us as we were driving away. That's the one experience with, like hundreds well we're in Goma in the DRC. You know- and
it's just it's just a really really chaotic place. The place has been run over by civil wars for decades people are in C this desperation- but I think worse than any of that, there's a huge cock picture of non profit organizations and stuff there. So I think they're used to kind of white folks coming in with this very patron izing kind of you. And then we're down there with cameras, filming them and then all of a sudden they realize that we're not paying anyone for this. You know and- and I think you know, there's a tendency for people to feel like well you're here, taking something from a You know you're, clearly making more money than any of us will ever. You know be able to make and what the fuck did we get for it. You know, and I can understand that and how to turn into them, throwing rocks. Are you guys now again they realize we weren't going to be paying for any of this. You know our security team was like hey guys time to get car as soon as you get in the car and
leaving it's like. Oh these fucking assholes man he just came down here, got not all their footage and I'm going to pack up and go back to their nice hotel, but that's the one experience and a little like a lot of experience is there you know for the most part I found people there like incredibly great just you know, I find it to be one of the most hopeful places. Honestly, my day to day experiences in Africa, I saw people who were working their asses off on a grassroots level. The like some of the most you know some of the most Lake dynamic grass roots capitalism that I've ever seen in people who will literally find any any way to scrape out an existence and living no, this is not like. This is not a lazy culture. This is a culture that will fight through anything. You know, with legos in legos is one of them.
Dynamic cities. I've ever been in. This is constantly moving constantly people trying to make money constantly people trying to find a niche. You know in a city of twenty million people, So I find a lot of beauty in just like rock human endeavor there, and I think that you know if they can clear some of the like obvious stumbling blocks that they have in terms of corruption. In terms of you know, foreign pressure, in terms of you know, manipulation markets. There's there's tremendous promise. I mean like need just just in terms of the just the internet and technology sector that come in from the villages on the streets of legos. Who can take your your computer apart and rebuild it by hand, you know self taught, and all of that potential is there to be too
you know in they're, starting to you know, so I guess I just find it, full place. That's amazing that you only had one bad experience, only one only one, but I can say that about traveling, the world kind of in general and we've been in a number of you know relatively hot zones, and we never did active conflict because we don't, you know, make that kind of show, but being in places like places the DRC or I can count on one hand, and so in many many years of doing this, you know the number of time that I actually felt threatened by someone. You know I've found that most likely scenario is you're going to get like a cost to buy a sandwich in our someone trying to you know, introduce you to their kids. You know where take a selfie with you and that's that's the world I know I don't really understand the world that we see you on tv
here, man 'cause. That's not that's not my experience. You know you know a lot of good people in again getting back to Tony. I think that you know a dad's legacy right. I think that he really showed people that That is a problem with our view of the world. Is that if it doesn't look scary, they're not going to show it to you know if it's dangerous mean other than his show. What else are you seeing on CNN, where they're in Africa, where it's a good thing. What else are you seeing where people are in Egypt, where it's good thing? What else are you seeing where people are interacting with people on the street and there's not some sort of a murder story or rape story or something awful yeah? I mean, I think, you're starting you're, starting to see a little bit but mostly you're, seeing it in, like you know, like CNN's Africa, you know at work or you know there you're, starting to see them covering stories about entrepreneurs right. You know, positive aspects, you know building.
Economy, that's a real problem. In our view of the world for people that don't travel, listen, Africa just simply doesn't make news in the United States, I mean, and it takes a genocide yeah. You know well All I've been hearing about Africa lately is what's going on with white farmers in South Africa, which so it's very scary, stuff where people are encouraging people to attack white farmers. You know and there's a whole lot of socio political and economic shit that goes on. Without that, I'm not even going to pretend I understand, but that's what you hear about you don't hear about good things here, but how many farmers have been murdered at homes? well, that's a shame, because you know You go there and most of what I find going on. There is positive. You know, late, listen, there's a lot of pain, there's a lot of suffering, lot of bad. That happens or two obviously going to deny that you know. But I you know we don't
really good stuff did you have a good did you have like a place where you enjoyed traveling do the most. You know not, I don't think really because you know to me, this is another kind of like real lesson of the show. You know I think we got to place were finding something kind of everywhere. You know, there's some places that I enjoy as much. You know, but I I think most places we found something that was like a house, those lost. You know what was the one place where you like, not going back here again: okay A highly militarized state was deep problems now and deep divides and both sides,
and uh, a lot of beautiful people on both sides, but but I think you know I mean this was something we like would encounter a lot. As we kind of progress in the show is decide. You know I'm at my dad would say it to me all the time like well, where Where you guys gonna go now, you know he's been everywhere, it's just like yeah, but I think we started to learn. You could like really point the camera kinda anywhere. I think a big one for me was like doing this. West Virginia show last year was a place. It always been like really close to my heart lake. I grew up there when I was a kid. You know it's a it's a place that has been, I think, like deeply misrepresented again. Another place. It's been deeply about mister, presented in the media. You know, and but you know we got like. I got into town on scout there and it's like there's no restaurant. You know it's not just that. There's no restaurant, like in the town there's like two restaurants in the cow.
You know- and I remember having this moment, but can we do this with this work like will tone respond to this, and we make a show here and within two days, use like big, very deeply. Heartfelt statements about the place we loved it. You know- and it was kind of another automon were like oh yeah, of course, 'cause there's something everywhere. The human story is, right, dig into it wherever you go, the fundamentals of that? Don't change and I think that you know what he did was so cleanly and clearly and so free of bullshit cut to the core of those very fundamental kind of human stories in and anyways it worked well, we won an Emmy,
two nights ago for it so yeah posthumous Emmys are always odd right, yeah. That was a rough night when he would get the rough cut would be the length of the actual show. And then he would add narration to it did you have any say in the editing process huge I mean so I think that's something important too about who he was. You know I mean, like everyone, calls him a chef. He wasn't a chef. Like he was a producer. Is a television producer. He would pick the locations he picked, the subject matter for the most You know there were a couple like. How did you guys work it out? Let's say if you were going to go to Puerto Rico, or something like that did you make make the decisions, how to decide where to go and why? Okay well I'll, take you through the whole process, so is so Tony would come up with a list of places that he was interested in going, and maybe we would throw a couple in lake had mentioned. The West Virginia show you know be like
but this is my list right and then he'd write like a brief on each one, I'm interested in x. You know like I'm interested in Singapore, it's Disneyland with the death penalty right you like, so there's like there's kind of a basic operating thesis right kind of like go in and look at this place from this perspective and some of them some of them at the Lego's episode, for example, you just feel like we have, Benin, Nigeria, let's go to Nigeria. You know and so we would start doing research on what that was just big kind of thirty thousand foot macro you. What is this environment like? What are the interesting things? What are the stories that have been told about this place, and how can we look at it from a different angle? So, like the Nigeria one we kind of focused in on, like I said you, grass
capitalism D, I Y entrepreneurship. You know street level, you know see the street level kind of dynamics of the economy, you know and the that became like like we could see ways to kind of make a beautiful like human story. Out of those elements so end up by putting down to him, probably in like a two or three page thing like here are my ideas. You know who here is what I found based on what you were interested in here. Some other things I found this is the way would kinda like to go about it and he did we like yeah. I know you know from that point just get heavy into research right, a treatment. You know in breaks that story in the like six sacks right in and look for scenes to kind of, feel and articulate dot stories was
seems. Like you know, I have this great economist. I know we're going to need an economist at some point, but we got to put in your car so kind of boring by nature, so we got to put him somewhere. More dynamic losses, really interesting, computer market that has a lot of energy. So, let's put the economists there they can walk around. There's a great restaurant in the core are there so like here are some elements we can put together. That's a scene in act of the show you put all that stuff together and treatment form send it to Tony. Usually minimal, notes from him. You know and then and then we'd go out scout shoot. The show you know How is it shooting in a restaurant, with camera people standing over the table? I think we got really good at not taking over the environment? You know, so I don't I don't know, I don't know how to answer that. But how do you do it? How do we?
If you and I are having a conversation at dinner and we're being filmed, would they is close to Jaime's right there to care miss yeah closer than that run. On top you yeah it's pretty close, but you know understanding. Yeah, but we wouldn't use like if there rules to that right. 'cause. It like word doc, generally show we can't just go in and just like completely take over someplace or take over some village or scare the shit out of local people, or you know what I mean like we, to go in with some deafness. You know, so we would go in early and we would light so that the character where is Tony, aren't really seeing a screw around with lighting stuff, like that, that's all kind of in place. Put the cameras in there. No sound guy, no big booms sit the rest of the crude Down other wearing wireless mikes, yeah exactly and then and then and then fill in local people
in the rest of the restaurant. Make sure that there are people who actually go to that restaurant in the restaurant make sure that fuels like alive, not like full of x, is like miming dialogue be carrying large cameras like how big are the cameras are carrying their big cameras like regular, big old production cameras, heavy on the shoulders yeah. Like you, use a mediator. Yeah not get you know, but again, you know it's two guys standing there with cameras that have been traveling, at least from Tony's perspective when traveling with Tony for a long time. You know this is just like in two words get our friends at the mail right in terms of with the side kicks. You know. I think we learned early on that, like you got a like you gotta go up. You gotta, introduce yourself, you gotta smile, you gotta, laugh you're, going to be able to be self deprecating make them feel comfortable. You're there to ask them questions not to tell them who they are. You know, and I don't know man it. I can. I just say we
we traveled all over the place. A lot of people have never been on camera before but largely worked. You know, so I'm doing something with you. Every time you in a restaurant and people were pissed off that there's people standing there with cameras filming a table. Oh yeah, yeah yeah, but you know that's pretty easy. You know some it's pissed off and they wave you off. Okay, cool! Sorry, you know no worries, I never really escalated. You know: listen Maine, you had a view of the world by doing that, show and traveling. The way you did that is less than one percent of the population. Is there going to experience, probably less than one percent of one percent yeah, I would say for sure, yeah yeah I mean it's gotta be an in credibly, enriching journey for you yeah hugely, I mean usually there's I mean it's. I don't know it's very simple. There's before and there's after and it's
friend, really it is just all the data you to how to take in the view of the world changes it gets, bigger becomes a much bigger place, it does. That's, was you know, that's exactly right and that's what's really interesting. I tell people this two would be like. Oh well, you know you've been all these places get out the gap, but the world doesn't work like that. It doesn't sound like the more places you go, the small the world, feels more places you go, the bigger the world feels just feels bigger and bigger and bigger 'cause. You realize like there's. Every country there's this county in this country, this town in this county, there's a street there's all the other streets, there's all these other people. You know. Our shows were just a sliver of a place, a tiny little sliver. You know you can go into legos. Can we go back to legos and make ten more shows each one of them completely unique and individual? You know the world's big place, a lot of shit going on and yeah now,
They're going to keep airing these shows right. I mean: how long are they going to? How long are we going to do this, for they have? How many did they have all told how many they did. Five CS. How much is eighty nine? Can we guess we're getting near a hundred shows, you know I've never counted. I don't really know. It shows yeah they'll, keep. I have it on my dvr, so they'll, occasionally the run these sounds and yeah I'll go to my tv on this, like twenty new shows, yeah and now on on, I watched a few in the. The first time I watched it in a while. I posted a thing on Instagram to about it, because I I I was real, reluctant to watch it after he died, but then I went on a bender yeah. Well, I watch like a binge watch like three of one and I cannot dam on a good show. It was there as good man, you guys now, the now you really you should be really proud. Thanks and and I'm you know, I'm actually
still working on one right now, which is maybe the weirdest experience. You know you're asking about process before you know after we shoot it. That's when Tony really came in. Would you do if he's not there for narration? Well, that's the that's the thing who narrates it. You know when I'm not I'm not gonna replaced on it. So no narration, now yeah I mean we have our sidekicks talking to him. We have. His dialogue in the field, you know, but who's going to, step in and that voice and how offensive would it be if we did that it would have to be someone who is so close to him, that it didn't didn't freak everybody out and have to be some Who's on the show up, one thousand times was just there with them. Always that person doesn't really exist, doesn't there's no there's no voice is there when you would give him a rough cut, save like I said, show on Puerto Rico. What happened so he would take that he would watch it and then it would start writing exactly.
So yeah getting back to process you'd like I'd, send him an act right once it was in rough cut form, and then you get his notes back. That was always kind of a terrifying moment. 'cause, you the work thing, a lot. You sent it off to him. He can go one way or another man right. I got you know, I got got it a few times and well I got to go, couple that were like out fucking standing, you know and that's all the notes he had, but you would you send him basically scratch. Writing so would say like here's, what we're thinking you know this kind The idea goes here. This kind of idea goes here and then he would actually write it. You know, and you get that writing back and I'm going to take for him to do something like that. He wrote that shit out man yeah, is fast and that's the thing too. I never. You know there was never an email or a text that he didn't get back to you. He was no slouch man. He like he was sharp. He was on it. He'd get back to you. He do the work. You know it uhm
pride in that we would talk about a lot of doing doing the work yeah yeah yeah. He did, I mean there's another, that's another, the thing that was so delightful about it. You know something here having to drag some. You know carcass along and problem up in front of the camera, and you know he he was into it. Man and like he had total ownership, total control who is in you know in no show was like nah fuck it. You know we can just slide kind of slip by on this one. You know every show is important and when when they weren't working. He was pissed. You know and great you know. I think biggest thing that I miss in this process of cutting Texas show that I'm doing now is not having the pressure of him.
Looking at it and being like dude, you know no man, ain't working, that was a real benefit us when did start smoking again. I, So weirdest thing man I didn't know I didn't really know his smoking again. Then the pulley or show came out and I just some light up on camera. You know I was like, oh, I guess we're doing this again. And then a couple of my like a couple of my shows at the end he dced which is lighting up on Cameron that was always like That was always no go territory like in the past. When he was smoking, we would like stop shooting you know. All the sudden he was just lighting up right on camera and I don't shock the shit out of me. You know I got to look around the crew like what what do we do like.
I was shocked because he said that when his daughter was born as when he decided to stop smoking because he realized that you know he had something else to live for that. He you know he didn't want to be on some cancer bed graphic an iron long having his daughter visits him yeah, so quit yeah is barley, starting in minutes. Did he stop going to gym? To? I don't know it. It wasn't as frequent during the end Anna during the last few episodes. I'd need a we stop kind of having to find gyms and we offer you know- and I think the last couple of shows are probably like that for me, I was like you want to find local gym and be like nah, I'm. You know I'm good man, so was it within
last year or so or less less than a year says last year, so yeah? That's when the smoking started. I guess maybe a little earlier in that yeah- that's a bummer when you see someone quit and then go back on. That is one of the the weirder it is of our culture. Is he Not true I mean he got through really hard part in the end couple years under his belt, yeah, look great and who's gonna really he's doing really. Well now that we go from here my where do I go from yeah? Oh on you know some, but you know. Twenty? A I think gave us like tremendous tools to the you know for how we look at the world and like how we will continue to go on looking at the world and
I don't know exactly what show all do, but I know it will continue that kinda ethos, you Know- and I get you know I feel like. I have this very powerful kind of well, like I said, set of tools now the day he kinda handed us. You know that to go on, and Keep doing, I guess this work, you know using the problem with this work that you need someone like him. Like either Erinella who's, a very you person and in many ways, similar not self destructive at all, but really very good writer as well, and his narration, like one of the things that operates mediator from any other show. Is that Steve
is this eloquent narration exactly that goes through it, and it makes you realize, like our perception of what it means to be. A hunter is based on stereotypes, negative stereotypes that this is uh best example? This isn't really well read brilliant man who has a great passion for the outdoors and for public lands and for wildlife and. Consuming wildlife in this this this adventure of pursuing it and this cooking it and showing you the art of cooking it you wouldn't be able to make mediator with PIG man talk about big man. Porklips yeah I'm in command. Well, unfortunately, I enjoyed that uh with for all the wrong reasons.
Kizzy, this justification enjoying a porklips. First of all, because you got TED Nugent with a machine gun in a helicopter, okay and then two you have this It's real wild pig epidemic, it's a legitimate epidemic in Texas and they don't know how to eradicate him. Get all end up buying putting in the television on a hunting show it's not real. Really hunting in fascinating out of a helicopter in there laughing, and it's that part, it's the mentality behind it that you know listen, I'm not saying don't have fun on a hunt. I've had a lot of fun on hunts. You know they have a great time on a hunt. I don't know, there's something about you know yeah. You know what you're saying I know exactly firing off a thousand rounds cackling out outside of a helicopter yeah laughing. When you see pigs do somersaults because he had shot at him, yeah yeah helicopter. You know I did it think can and I think that's one of the things that I really loved about Steve. You know like love still.
I still love about Steve episode on that show. For me, it was when we went up to Alaska and we're hunting, bow black bear and decided not to take a shot. You know I mean here's, a guy, the love the animals as much as he loves hunting animals as much as he loves conservation of animals and much. She loves banal. Legend of science behind animals in the natural world. You know That to me was appealing like that's something I can sink my teeth into. Dedicate my efforts towards you know further is working yeah, it's a crazy show me I mean I talked to him about it in his sort of idea of why he didn't do. It was so interesting. He just kind of went with his feelings. Yeah, exactly yeah tell a hunting show you have a bear, which is what you're looking for they lined up in your scope and go. I don't do it, I'm not feeling it in
and I loved what he said to at the time she was like. I'm not saying I'm never going to shoot a bear again Should there here today and I'm not and not, and that I was big moment well, that's the words coming out of his mouth. How conflicted must his perception need to realize that ok, I'm filming a show where I'm actively hunting bears camera people there there's a budget behind it. Now I have to make a show about my decision to not hunt a bear and then next week I'm going to something else and want the neck? We gonna go onsen, something else yeah, but I mean it dot lake his ability to to like it met and kind of understand the human being is a complex animal, complex, emotion and the you know this. I do year of just kind of uniform direction of the human mind is like a toy little fallacy man we're all over the fucking place. You know and like I, no, I really bought in at that moment if I hadn't before, which I completely kind of had, but I
really bought in at that moment like this is this is a guy. I can always stand behind. You know one of my fave episode brave. It was brave because realize this is on the sportsman's network yeah, so this sportsman's channel and they have only hunting, shows Oman and then he's on a hunting show with you got all these people that watching that would kill to be on a hunt like that and to have a big call bear in their sights what they want in their thinking. We're going to see Steve shoot then we're going to see him cook up a bear roast and he's going to be stewed carrots and onions and potatoes, and there's going to be amazing and he's going to. I don't want to do it and everybody's like what and we were like, we were really nervous. I remember when the episode came out relate with this and we had done few things before like we had failed at a hunt like you know, we had
taking shots that missed in the hunt failed? We had gone on a mountain lion Hunt where we never even thought mountain land. Those were all kind of moments were like. Will this work? Can we put this out in the hunting community? Will they respond to it in every one of those it kind of like hit or worked, and I think people actually appreciate it 'cause of the realism of it. You know the that one was like. Can you you put out a show where there's a perfectly legitimate shot at yeah. I mean I'm a very high percentage shot at at exact. The animal we're going after in the choice to not take the shot. You know how are people going to respond? Overwhelmingly people were like hey man. I know exactly how you feel, it was incredible. You know it was like. It was like this moment and I and I don't mean a bag on anyone else. Man and I don't know that much about hunting shows before you know. I know that
a lot of what I saw found to be really really either either uninteresting or just fucking stupid. You know, but you know I think that it was like this moment were like. Oh, my god, like all these, you know this. This industry is like missed a big big part of who the people you know that are paying attention here. Are, you know, you don't have to just go like cell arrow heads, you know, and you know, and now cackle hanging out of a helicopter yeah well, that's worst case example, but for some hunting people that are like sort of d, fully indoctrinated into the world. They don't mind that show. Never mind any lesser men's, no power,
Did I I I'm not. I don't not trying to tell anyone how to be or what to like, or was just not a lot of guys. Like Steve, I mean Dino, Donnie, Vincent similar Gotcha, simmer guy, really really smart, guy yeah and just great reference for the outdoors and for wildlife, and you know he does every being self filmed and sells the Pasco films and he's smart. You know he knows he knows what he's doing cool but he you know Steve, he's sort of changed the perception of hunting for allow people that have become fans. They show the same way that Tony sort of change their perceptions absolute in of cooking, yeah yeah. Absolutely I mean I, I I mean I'm not like Terrence Malik or something but like I got a lot to offer and I got you know I got a career, I'm not going to I'm going to dedicate,
not creating these people unless I really really believe in what they're doing and like that's those are two cases of people I like because they were willing to look at an industry or look at something that they love and say like. Well, I have a completely different take on it. You know and I'm willing to put that out there, whatever cost and in both cases and workers are both super smart. You know really capable people Anna yeah. I don't think I've ever met, really anyone more capable and Steve and a lot of ways the guys on he is it's kind of Force of nature is a very unique person I and the amount of stuff that he's able to get done as well written a bunch of books, and constantly doing the shows- and I don't just the enthusiasm to me- he's not just going to these places and staying in hotels, he's sleeping on the ground outside. In these
you know really fucked up places and do you know bout Afognak would happen with the bear attack. I do yeah yeah, which is just if anybody doesn't know, there's a two part series on the meat eater podcast about Afognak, which is an island in ask where they have enormous brown bears and they got charged and attacked by a fucking. Eleven foot bear which is just so crazy to think of and the description of it and they made this podcast right after the fact. So it's fresh in everyone's mind. It is amazing, it's amazing, so amazing, It's also amazing isn't the first time he's been charged. Miranda, you know by a number of different animals. Is run over by a moose yeah, you know yeah, but I will say that I mean you get Steve also is like physically one of the toughest people I ever met. I mean I why
Him set beaver traps. One time in I mean breaking ice with his bare fists at beaver traps. For hours, you know put your hand in that water for put your hand in out water for two minutes you know just bad someone who does not have trouble. You know in during a lot of physical discomfort yeah That was what was kind of exciting about the show to twos. He was really like willing to integrate that stuff into the experience. You know it wasn't like. It wasn't like we need to go out. We need to perfect, kill shot. We need to set this up and you said that it was kind of like what we're just going to go out and we're going to see what happens, we're going to kind of grit our teeth and bear it no matter. What do you know that, where the journey takes us and we're just going to document that that was like super exciting television to make at that time
to let you know I've done five episodes of his show an we struck out on two of 'em. You know, that's it used to be there. Never air shows like that. No, don't know that they aired, probably I'm sure, a lot of people. Don't like don't know what you're talking about, but I'm sure that they aired a lot of failed hunts before we started doing it. I don't think they did. I don't think it was a popular thing that might have been done before, but not to the extent that We did one of my favorite episodes. He never never shot a deer, it was. Talking about his dad. He was all that's brought. Yeah great you have a so, and I think that was Alaska as well. Wasn't it I don't Was it wasn't a black tail hunt. Maybe it wasn't Alaska. Now I feel like it was a cuz deer hunt. I think you're right in Arizona And most of the show, was him
using a spotting scope and binoculars looking for deer and talking about his relationship with his father, and there was no music and whoever edited and put it together was brilliant is perfect 'cause. It was some heavy heavy duty. And sort of makes you realize like this is where you came from. You came from a hard man, yeah yeah, taskmaster yeah. You know that was a brilliant. Absurd is also like I think you know one of the things I like so much about that episode. Two. Is it fuel so much like the process of hunting? It's long hours with people really kind of getting deep into stuff- and you know did an episode with him to it hasn't aired yet, but it. A lot of that letter. Like just talking about life, you know yeah. I really enjoyed that part of being out with him too
rin spending those long hours, just sitting, glassing hills like talking about our families and plans for the future. That's nice man. I listen. I feel I can't tell you how lucky I feel in my career to like landed with these folks. You know yeah, it's uh Great twelve right. There are those two, those two guys but like we're saying it's it's real hard to find those kind of guys, there's not a lot of those kind of guys out. There I you know I think you know it feel, look there's more of what they call prima content. Now you know on tv, there's more people looking for things that just to it, but that is what do you think is happened? What's the shift? I I guess I don't really know. I think I'm not in development. So I'm not really in a you know,
Saiba! I get the feeling that outlets like Netflix have really shaken up the the paradigm. You know, I think, in General- is change. People's expectations and uncensored content is so prevalent. And so much more attractive. Yes, it's it's just changed change the way people absorb things that you're using to you now. I think that I think you can own a house and have flex there's been a lot of money. We've taken a lot of swings, not all the swings of hit, but they've been pretty brave in terms of like how much and how would a wide range of content they were willing to take on the end, and so a you know again. I would maybe that's you know part of what's drive
com. I know I'm I've been lucky enough to land at, like I said before, like zero point, zero is christen, lady, their and their ethos of you know. Making content of late has a purpose. He. How did the works towards battering? You know the world are showing people something about the world or you know connecting people and- and that's probably been you know, the greatest gift. That's what brought me to town as a promise, Steve and now he's a connection with them. So if there are people out there that want to use the medium to yeah there, there are idealistic suckers out there well known enough. That's with creates that satisfying art. I mean the stuff that we're talking about you, you're, not gonna, get that any other way you have to have those people with a d for reference for the subject that they're discussing the subject, that's being portrayed, yeah,
yeah and in now again, more and more, we have the outlets to put that on the air. Yeah, hey! Think back to the days of this three networks. You know Tony never getting on the air. Never I've never going to find out about. I mean we'll have to stick with being an author yeah exactly yeah it's in a lot of ways: it's a wild west now, but in a lot of ways it's a good thing. Oh it's a good thing. I mean it's great thing for Maine yeah. Nobody would ever give me a fucking show. It would have been that crazy, this kind of show where we go. So what do you want to do? I just want to talk to whoever I want to who's going to schedule. It me: what are you going to do on the show, whatever have a form out of discussion nope, but in a lot of ways, that's what kind of that's what mediator was in the hunting version. You know it was like. What's the con says the show? Well, I'm going to hunt the shit that I want to hunt when you go to places. I want to go and hang out with the people, don't want to hang out with well
are you going to shoot animals? I don't know, maybe maybe not it's something I can tell you. You know we're going to try and it was man again. This is great, be able to do that and like have that freedom. I think CNN in a lot of ways like you know in Tony that to have the freedom to be like. Well, here's a six year old. You know Ex heroin addict we're going to do whatever he wants to do going to wherever in the world. He wants to go and we're just going to kind of. Let him talk the Seattle one, Seattle, one get blasted. I mean he who is smoking weed on camera, smoking read through the show, going visiting growers and going to restaurants high as fuck you, the deli was high and he was talking about how you been smoking all day. Their daughter when talking about being baked with two people,
who are growers that brother and sister with her of larious there, and they were, they were a whole area and they were laughing with them and it's like the whole families involved is really. That was great. It also god damn so got me hungry. Seafood in Seattle and all the delicious insane man I want to get a Seattle again haven't been up there. Now That was a good episode in those those folks were off yeah. You know I went out to that place and I film that and it's like they were like lovely dream scenario. I mean that kid, like he put together the names. See if it'll look like it down just to give them a shout out. Seattle episode, growers it'll, come up african american family
they were awesome and, like you know, that was all that kid he had like put together. Pdf showed his family and they were like cool. Let's see, everything into and they did and I went out to their place and they were just sitting back laughing. You know like pounding stacks of money, you know and all call smoking big choice. You know like the grandmas there smoking a huge do be like and she was like. Quality control test are Larius all these kids working for them and stuff like rolling joints and making oil and Austin, and it was just like it was like good for you guys you know like way to go, isn't that the way of like kind of american entrepreneurship is supposed to work, you well. It is rare that something comes along that this controversial, but yet also lucrative as Mary want a sales and then all the sudden, it's legal in the state totaly, although ok. Well, so we could just do this yeah yeah I'll, tell you, which
any of the controversial part of that episode was not tony smoking, because that's legal. This perfectly. You know it's fine for in the smoke it was when he handed the joint to me over the camera that one was a little. I think that was a little tough for some folks to swallow his line, and it will because, because I'm working now but he's working to yeah well jeez, you know never thought with the I guess he was working. Yeah he's working till I guess is the idea that you're holding machinery, the Hollingsworth that's right, shout out to the Hollingsworth Hollingsworth far Hollings worth yeah. They are yeah. Why was it? I guess, because maybe they're thinking you're holding a machine? That's like real expensive gas man or the I think they you know they didn't want the perception that we were just like yeah parting, an out of control in the field we and we were made. You know we were like you know, we're professional,
so did CNN have a problem with it. I think Maybe there were elements at CNN. Someone might have had someone must have chimed in, but in the end again to their credit. In the end it left, you know they left us alone, as the only would make a good show as soon as those fucking cook start coming into the kitchen and points to and want to add ingredients yeah. But that's the whole industry right now that surprisingly believable again that's the way this was so refreshing like how rare is it not to get not that people just breathing down your neck, all the time, the same thing with mediator. You know 'cause. Well, it came from the wild within which was a show. That's where I met him. I met him from that show and I had him on my podcast, but that show was a fucking goat, he was telling me that they were trying to let animals loose out of cages, and then he would shoot them. Those were the early days when there were like. Then they were like they were line items in for, like animal rank, and like, but you know to everyone
credit and like very quickly at zero dot, zero and very quickly with Steve there like dude, we don't do that like we're, not doing that, but it's uh. Is that a producer actually came up with that idea. I know how to do this producer. Didn't you know it's not like a producer came up with that idea. That was just the playbook on how you make tv right now. All that is pulling from the playbook for sure you know, I'm really out of the air quotes tv yeah. Exactly you know, show I mean, listen, there's there's a lot of huge takes in that show on a lot of bullshit those I thought it was like. A pro revolutionary and light pretty interesting show in a lot of ways. There's a lot of truth in there too. You know we did end up going out and just like going on hunts. You know this is very high pressure situation. Yeah, but also like this is very typical of kind of like I think, the way that television which is like still as were out in the field, there's still at the net
there's a lot of kind of infighting and jostling about what the show actually was is this is this history is See you know reality is this. You know subsistence yeah. You know I I remember one point, someone saying something like well: it's not a hunting show you know and we're like, unlike in the field covered and moose blood, You know- and I'm like Do you know from where I'm standing you know like? I don't know what to say. What does that mean that they're saying it's not a hunting show yeah. I think there's So what did they want to do? That was, but I think that there are very leery of this idea of like a hunting. Show me well, meanwhile, was those sub. Distance shows that they have for all hunt in gathering mean that is like one of the more popular shows on all of these cable channels with these people that live in Alaska and they're trapping shoot yeah, it's crazy! Wasn't then. I know it's crazy,
not John, really exploded after that, and I think there's something very different. You know when you take like you know when you take like for some reason, when think Steve Steve like New York, city, intellectual and you put him in that environment. I think there was a different reaction, then, like these live in Alaska. It's like watching pygmies hunt. You know there is a desert. This is the natural environment of you know and that's what they do and so hunting is acceptable under those conditions you know it's like, why isn't it acceptable for someone who like lives it as like a base philosophy in their life guy? some chance to explain why you know, but he lives in Brooklyn, why would you ever hunt? You know you live in Brooklyn just go to the shopping centre, yeah yeah! Well, you must be. There must be something wrong with you. If you enjoy it right exactly- and I think that's like, I think, that's part of the mentality well Tony
rests on the show to remember one of the first times Tony shot a deer on the show, and then they cooked it at that same guys, restaurant yep exactly what are some of your way, yeah that his restaurant yeah and they shot a deer and Marco put the blood on so he's had yeah exactly supposed to do when you get the first kill yeah and then they went and cooked it, and it was. There was a lot of that there's. There was one time where he shot a pig at point. Blank range of the pistol. Yes and I was like wow. They put that on tv that a big big moment for him. He tell you talk about that a lot yeah yeah. So well I mean he, the that was Cajun country, right, yeah and I think, I think he I think the story goes that he like. They asked him to kill the pig and he goes shut up and light just very, very coldly double taps the pig in the head, and
I think that he says there's just this moment of silence of marks a crowd like like that was cold dude. What they expect- I don't know, but he yeah, but he was like he would talk about it as if like a gasp came up from the crowd, looks like cheese wow. You know the double tap like it's like a mob hit or something yeah. I think Enough for a pig- I don't know any blank range I see, and and shot in the head, though, that. Could he is another one really that's what I think is special. She is I've. Seen I've seen a couple. Pics go real ugly, so yeah double tap is totally acceptable to me because when a pig goes bad, it's really it's not pleasant for anyone. Man yeah! Well, it's also don't, want an animal ever to suffer. If you exactly see it still alive put another one in it's always
hunting rifle hunting. If it's still standing put another one in it, yeah yeah are suffering anyway. Yeah I mean, I think, that's you know. That's like kind of the responsibility you take on to yourself when you decide to hunt like and for me, when I made that decision, I will have been on two hunts now Steve a shot, two deer. That was a very clear kind of aspect of it. You know I was like well I'm taking responsibility now, not only for like this animal's life, but for this animals pain and so offering and the consequences of my actions. You know so I'm not gonna be lopping off any seven hundred fifty yard. You know rifle shots because I'm not qualified to do that and it's you're responsible to the animal and the potential suffering that you can, because you know or losing the animal or you know. So
You know- and I I don't know I guess it all comes from Steve really. You know we may send such strong ethics yeah exactly yeah. I mean it became it really clear with me just knowing I'm of the skies he's got a like a very, very powerful moral compass, yeah core set of beliefs that are just non negotiable. Again both of them Tony and yeah, and then Tony is moral, compasses rock solid as well. You know any mistakes that he may have made and his life. I can honestly say he made them with his heart. He made them with his moral compass in mind, making his best attempt to to follow that. You know and again that you know
that was something that was. It was really nice to be around a refreshing to be around in a bright, especially in this world of people, with gimmicks trying to become more popular and more well known, and he had put zero effort into that yeah I mean just the base philosophy of the show we're not going to take anything we're not going to do second takes we're not going to help the one where they were thrown frozen, octopus and water. So this is like a really famous story right. The Sicily episode he describes. That is, like maybe the darkest existential moment of his life you know and like who was throwing the fake octa, the frozen sidekicks, so they say
of the sidekick sure Lake side kick out of the guy who is running, though the fishing operations will. I I guess they were this site kicks in the scene that we're gonna work with Tony right. So I mean it the way. You'd set a scene that normally like that is you have like a psychic. Someone is going to talk to Tony, be like hey. Do what we can do, we're gonna go out in the side. Kick would be a local yeah, usually like a a local or an expert in something or you know a fisherman. Probably in this case I wasn't on that show. So I don't know exactly, but you know when you be like we're, gonna go Octopus using you know. Do you know someone who fishes octopus? Oh yeah? I know you know so and so we'll go out with them right so, but it turned out that they want to like this very crowded beach. You know, and I think, even in the same time as like we really catch Octopus, there's like people swimming everyone is like kids with like snorkel masks.
Yeah yeah, yeah, everything's, fine, everything's and finally got the water intereses starts. Hearing these plots and looks about men is: is dead, Octopus like floating, you know drifting down to the bottom of the ocean. There lol, come in off the boat and then picking them up. As I got an octopus, I got one you know, but I think again, like most tv, shows that do exactly that. You know like where is the Octopus Wrangler Tony like that was always like complete, get completely unacceptable away to make tv. So did you know he? He had no idea what's going to happen before the start happening now known. While I start happening, what did he say he he left and went to the beach and ordered Leahy KIT. Like seven Negroni is in a row, he was really bummed out about it. I saw in two weeks later in Tokyo, and he was still talking about it is like I just I just had the worst experience of my life worst thing that ever happened to me
your darkest moment of my life. You know how the darkest moments like this are throwing frozen. Octopus to the water, yeah Wheatley went against the the whole ethos of the show right now, but he made fun of it on the show. Listen honestly, it's a great scene. It's a great it's a great scene in the largely because Sally Freeman that produce of that is like absolutely brilliant and one of the directores's ever come through. That show it was funny too, but it was his own. Take on the realizing that they were throwing frozen octopus into the water exactly and like how more you're fired. He was by at all yeah Totale, but I mean, but again like that's that's the way it was you know like we didn't go in and like be like ok action and now cut ok and now we're going to move the cameras and say that again you know there's none Batman. You I mean part of the Hustle of the show is like being there with
Yeah you set up the scene and then you press play and you let it go and what happens happens and I'm sorry if you don't get exactly what you hoped out of it. But we're not going to interrupt the world, we're not going to manipulate and control things. That is the day constrain, really good reality. Tv in the word reality tv is so weird like what is even mean because a lot of these shows they have scripted. They have these, loose scenarios and then they go in they scriptum and they read two things that reshoot things: it's not reality. It's like shitty, acting with people that are not trained and their edited with people talk in front of the camera. Like I didn't know what mode was thinking I haven't thought it was crazy. They cut. You was, like I told Joe, what we're going to do new in advance. I didn't know shit and then it's like in places conflict like the Kardashians and they've got it down to a fucking science, a science
of more reineke television dangling a great. If you could just sit there, slack jawed locked in the keep you locked is out at the good at at it's the way, their tents and right boom. We cut to commercial on the writer. Now, that's reality, tv. What would you guys were doing is more documentary television, yeah. It is and is not saying that it's not saying that there's no affect of the convention of television there. Of course there course, but we used to say, like you know like Vietnam doesn't look like that, but Vietnam doesn't not look like that. You know there is a there is a refinement into manipulation and what we're doing, because we're choosing these locations were choosing to talk to this person were choosing to shoot it in a certain way. That's beautiful we're adding light. You know it's not
exactly the way reality is, but there's a threshold there's a line which you don't cross in that line is, is that it a morally and ethically established line by Tony in by the crew that says like there is there's a place at which it because comes unfair. The manipulation of reality becomes a man population that is now come unfair to the people who are viewing this. The people who are there, you know we we've become self serving. You know in that's the line that we chose never to cross. You know we can make it beautiful. We and refine it down. You know we can edit it. We can make a compelling show, but it as to it has to exist within under this within this certain threshold, or else you know what the fuck are we doing it must be a small percentage of people in the business that have that affect the small and it's incredibly powerful to have people backing you that believe in that
in super rare. I mean you know we talk about in like the film industry today, how rare! It is to have true autour final cut directors. You know left there's only a handful of them. You know largely the studios have taken over that control. Well, equally, in the television industry, it's that rare to have people that have the kind of power and control to have the luxury of saying you know: hey, listen. I have guidelines here and we're not going to cross some. You know, and have people be like great: go, go go you know, and we were able to do that. It seems like looks to be a really good place or something like that. It seems like Netflix to be a really good place for a lot of yeah. It seems like that's the that's the best place for it. Grill freedom yeah. Well, I don't know how much is real free when they're giving you money someone's, giving you money. There's always like you gotta get up with the real way to do. It would be like to produce it yourself,
but in the end is CNN was the best place to do that. You know, and they really did back us up and they really backed up Tony in that philosophy and the completely. Implicitly understood. What we were talking about was that we can't do that now was Jeff soccer. Was it his idea? Do you know again? I don't know how the deal came about. I assume so because I think it came. It came in after that transfer of power so did they did. You have other places where he's thinking about taking it side. Cnn again, I don't know now I don't know I mean it was really sick. This will show in its own right at that point, so I'm sure it would have gone somewhere, but that was I I assume it was just soccer who brought it in, and that was like just such a brilliant moves. Like perfect marriage, the ANA, perfect marriage, the perfect move for Santa like perfect so for us yeah. I thought it was interesting when they were taking a chance on these unscripted television shows these
Non news show yeah you seen United States of America. You have a w bomb fell on the lot of the times. It's great, he is the best is super super nice guy yeah. I did an episode with him in Kenya with Tony, which will be the premier of this upcoming season. Okay, you know so how many episodes have you guys done that have an air yet well, I think we'll have seven in this next season. That's the only one of those seven that was actually completed with Tony's narration aeration,
the rest of them are in complete, and in that respect- and you know we were again- we've been kind of fighting through editing those over the last few months and and trying to figure out ways to you know to do this without completely guiding. You know write them the method of making the show all right, and so, while in and there's a couple, specials and they're talking the the crew and stuff like that, Anna, so it's gonna be a pretty profound season.
So once you're done with that, you just start looking in new projects and different things to do, and I I have a couple like assignments already, some projects, I'm like pretty excited about. You know I just don't know that this officially announced yet so Anna, but there's good stuff out there and there's you know it. One nice thing in all of this incredibly difficult time is a lot of people have come to us and said: like listen, we wrote, we always believed in what you guys did and I would like you to continue doing and here's a project we have them. We thank. You know so hopefully we can continue to make things same kind of looks like we can well. It seems like the success of the show and then the infectious. Enthusiasm that Tony had in that you know so many people,
Fans of the show had for that style of television. It's just can lead to more more people, taking more chances and doing things like that. I hope so Anna. I think so. I think it's getting better. You know there will never be another. Tony will find that you know I think, that's something that get up. You will have to be away of going forward. You're, not gonna copy that right he's right, Tony and that's. If we saw Garden Ramsey, they announce some show with him traveling and people immediately just start shooting all over him. Yeah. I was usually from everything I understand is like just like a really good guy, and you know, But the problem is awaiting for trays himself on the show the kitchen nightmare. She comes in like an asshole and yells at people that are intimidated by him and let's just stick this tv stick
as far as I know, I I don't know, I'm not I'm just a nice yeah, some real nice area, I'm like I feared to he was nice. They have, let's get crazy. I don't know that I get, I don't know guys here. He would relentlessly out of it, but he sits on. Everybody did indeed show Martha Raye to, I don't know, yeah, maybe they think so maybe he would, pull that trigger all the time. Do you always make fun of his Lamborghini and I'm like kind of like the Lamborghini? And what are you talking about it's one of those things you're not supposed to have like you can have some cool cars, like I remember when he did the show with the queens of the stone age and charge home and one of the guys had a sixty nine Camaro yeah. I shot that that was a bad car, but that's an ok to have bad ass car because it's a classic 'cause. It's got style. Po
it's totally, but I would suggest to Tony that he might want to pick up the Lamborghini because the traction control okay, Tony, did a big problems in the on the Camaro yeah. No, I'm sure yeah, as most people would go to learn how to drive one of those as well. Somehow that was hot rod. Man yeah things, sick, yeah, bliss, my brother, uh glad we did this we reached out. Thank you. We decided to get together and talk, give a lot of people insight What it was like to work with one of my heroes. Yeah me too. Definitely my hero thanks brother. I appreciate it man. Thank you. Thank you, everybody, tune into the podcast and thank you to our sponsors. Thank you to teeter. Inversion tables. It's where it's at Savior back fuckers and they're, giving you an amazing offer just for listeners, this podcast for a limited time. You can get the teeter inversion table with bonus accessories and a free pair of gravity boots. So you can
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Transcript generated on 2019-10-05.