Ladies and gentlemen, streaming right now on Netflix Joey Diaz is new, stand up, comedy special. It's. They did uh, he's a half hour. Specials called the degenerates with our good friend J Oakerson? He got one funny we got a New York, Yama Neke. She got one our good friend Christina poses. She got one too and throughout right. Now I just wanted to let you guys know, that my e Netflix Special is also out right. Now, it's my new one. It's called strange times. I think it's my best one. This episode, the podcast, is brought to you by twenty three and me three and me, is a personal genetic service that helps you understand what your dna can tell you about you and your family story, and some that I want to do for a long time. I thought about it forever and then finally win twenty we became a sponsor. I went ahead and did it twenty three

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going on, I really enjoy talking to him. Please give it up for the great and powerful Mister Darren Brown. The Joe Rogan experience. What's up man, how are you hello, well I'm pleased to get here. It's kind of a strange day in this part of hello is this is strange as it ever gets there at the big concern in LOS Angeles, is always been according to a firefighter that I talked to once that the right wind catches a fire and It takes it all the way through LOS Angelus down to the coast yeah. It's not quite that It didn't go through Hollywood, it didn't go, they think one day it's going to happen and with the right when they're not gonna, be able stop it, but she's yeah. This is pretty bad. This is a not as bad as I've ever seen. It happen all in one day.

It's extremely driving down the road to get here. Just these huge just huge pillow, I thought it was just you know mountains. I thought it was strange cloud formation, but it was just simply smoke yeah. It looks like a giant gray. Mountain in the distance It's it's insane how bad it's gotten I've had it. Happened three. This is the third time I've been evacuated since I've moved here twenty plus years ago. Well, yeah it gets rough. This. Is the roughest of ever seen Jamie and I were doing the podcast yesterday and it was over. I had like five text messages from friends that live in my neighborhood how bad it was. And then, when we got home, the wind was just crazy and it's just it's just it's humbling. You know, I mean it's soup unfortunate for all the the people that are losing their homes and and losing their. You know losing their property,

The reality is, this is uh, it's nature. You know. This is something that you just can't avoid. There's nothing you no but gets dry like this, and I don't know what started it It wasn't a cigarette, that's the big Kentucky so many morons the throne cigarettes has not done anything. It's not just the way. The thing that just happens it's it is literally things light cigarettes and now, unfortunately, a lot of the times I mean the the weather, certainly accentuates it because it's dry and windy- and this is fire season well please Hayesville Saturdays Veener Matt how these incredibly comfortable chairs the not bad right, amazing. Yes, I support your back as well. We have a forty seven year. Old man is, is a is a helpful sake. I'm keep bouncing away for the microphone was chosen good, but yeah they're incredible they keep you sitting straight. This will be to the accentuate your posture and they do there. You go so what's up man, what you doing in town, shortest back chest out, yeah that would be proud. They go

I'm here, I'm hitting on you for a week, I've been I've got a show on Netflix is come out, so I'm just and is generally head to, I told about it. I guess and seen a couple of friends- and it's been a really nice really nice week yeah. This is a good way to end it to the giant, far as to say the giant fire and get the out it quickly. These people are crazy, living here, no water, never rains! yeah. It's very different back home it'll be a little yeah. It's it's It's amazing. Just at this time of year, leaving England and coming to someone like I mean, I'm sure, I'm sure you don't take it for granted, but you know it's. It is amazing, just for a the way just for a bit. You would you like a laser like as a place the homeowner does it. I mean you've got amazing sort of set up here. Is it just? Is it just? dream place to you. It's uh, it's uh

a relationship. Certainly the real problem is the population is just so insane. Is more than twenty million people plus who knows people. You know how much they they really don't, have no idea how many people stuck in you know it's it's just too chaotic play. Aces and no public transport. It just hit me that I was like this one that would know trains their infrastructure of us. I was driving these huge yeah. Everyone has an escalator, a test or something yeah. It's it's just a strange place in this. The the highways are massive. You know I am five six lanes on each side in there jammed solid word, nothing's moving either way and if you can just see it for the really, we realize how answers. It is when you're flying into LA acts- and you see the four five highway in the distance, and it's all stopped as long as you could see miles one way miles the other way just complete parking lot. We just realized wow. What are we doing here to find spot with great weather, and you know and the entertaining

industry draws people in I don't maybe it's better to be in England, keep the rain a little bit of a little bit of dream, yeah yeah. She had like a little bit that I like. I do like a bit of the old, so I take a lot of pics So it's very nice like when the rain clears and everything sorted glistens and that's a nice yeah. Your instagram is interesting. You know it's surprise. Well yeah. I mainly put I painted I do a street of St Photography those either we've got Instagram recently and I just been putting putting that stuff on that, which I don't know. How It is generally too well a nice place to put that kind of stuff. I paint like these big portraits and they just end up sitting my house no wants to buy in order to buy a giant picture of my mother, so I'm gonna sell them, so they just sit around so actually yeah for the month. Please yeah, that's not my mother. Just for clarity is your stuff is really good. Thank you for these, as old caricatures is Tom, waits was excellent. It's a surprise.

Amazingly good. You know I mean you think someone is really good at something like magic, and you say well that's about as good as he's gotta get. It was not like he's going to be that good at something else. But you are you usually flicking through my instagram yeah, I mean you're. A really good artist. Thank you very much. Have you done this? Your whole life not yet yeah, pretty much like as a as a kid I used to draw and paint a lot and always faces like I'm. You know- and I know get anything else but faces always made my things. I should do right because he's going to be no cockroaches, and now I paint mall so straight pictures. I guess, but it's nice. If you do something, that's kind of public, it's nice to do something- that's private and yeah. It's that thing of something bigger than yourself to throw yourself into into lose yourself in its going better days. Weeks of you know, just being in my studios is just lovely

it's a great thing. Do you find that stuff like that, clears your mind for your other work? I think it's just the sheer contrast. One of my favorite part of the year is touring, and I get to do the shows this evening and then the days are free. I'm like I'm, not in London, I'm in some other cities. So no one, no one can like get me in for a meeting. Or anything. I just have the days free and I can right so I had a book on happiness that which I wrote while I was on tour- and it was just this amazing, routine of just finding a coffee, shop spending play writing and then, if it does get a bit, you know I bet boring or a bit, string of saddle something if it's built quite coming together, you've done. You then get to go out and be this amazingly charismatic. Well rehearsed version of yourself on stage, which is you know, full of adrenalin and lovely so that that's an amazing retain nothing. Is my favorite favorite things in the

painting and all that photographers, an interesting one 'cause you you find yourself on the one hand, kind of slightly 'cause, I do St Photography. So it's kind of you know out taking pictures of candid moments. I guess so out of it, which was a very open and engaged in I'm not physically primed state. That's certainly a very kind of porous lovely state to be an and having been used to keeping my head down out in public, as I realize I'm not known here at all, but the UK I'm a bit so if I, if I was out in public, are generally kind of natural, kind of hunger, tail, ok, hunker down, and now it's the opposite. It's totally changed that relationship. So that's simple, good yeah! It's not it's! Just photography just being out there taking pictures, yeah you're having to be mindful and open an alert and At the same time,.

Well. I found a really really great state and it's a lovely contrast to the the shows in the you know the right. Or you always shy, or did you become more shy because of becoming really famous. I was always otherwise. I thought I think I grew quite um, that's probably I in security, get. I was very charming and very quite bright and quite like sociales. You know that was that was all good, but I think I can side I was was very intimidated by the kind of forty kids. You would have terrified me as a as a as a child, and I fleda kids like yeah yeah just not use it. I really didn't fit in with any of that and so that when I first saw about like I started my career as a hypnotist side, I saw this guy performing at university, and I I just I'm gonna, I'm gonna do that. I just I like

realize at the time of these boxes, that it was taking a performing. That sort of you know need for affirmation and and and love in center of attention, and also the control aspect of it. You know the kind of here the control aspect and also the kind of people at the sort of guy that, would respond well to hypnosis and come up on stage, and you know what I respond well to it tended to be exactly the kind of, because that would really intimidated before so that was later at a non conscious level on a hope of grown out of that now, mainly that yeah it takes a lot of that takes a lot of folks is so the that that was that's how I started in the arms. Really driven by in security, because it is any sort of magic which sort of followed for me on from hypnosis you're. Basically, it is the quickest most fraudulent route to impress

Let's see you know the subject is any leader? Look at my own talk right, which is not that interesting after after was not try to you know. As I as I've gone off, I try to move into a different area and one that's a little more resonant just showing off that's fascinating that you started out doing it. Hypnosis shows that a comedy show it was sort of. I would mainly perform like colleges. College is do a demonstration and then have questions and often questions and answers afterwards, and I wasn't making people look It was an entertainment show, and I guess it was kind of funny, but it was. It was it's just a really interesting thing and then trouble with doing on stage because it gets mixed up with people just kind of playing along and stuff, so it it it's. But if you take that out of it. It's just a really interesting Aaron. I've done this stuff. For you know, twenty years back home now,

I don't think of myself as a hypnotist. That was just kind of where I, where I started, that the that the suggestion based techniques, so that is something on continued. Within brought into different areas, and I still don't fully understand it. You know now, there's you can have a quite climbing since inside someone's head. I know they're experiencing, like I used to do in the well Do these like stage hypnosis shows. The last thing I did was to. I tell these people on stage that I was invisible right and I'd. I'd float something through the yeah right, like this bottle of going in and it'll be something big like a chair and they'd be freaking out, and you know running off stage and so on, but afterwards we had this kind of QA. I don't I don't them. What was what was your actual experience like the shows of it I'll, be honest. What we want you experiencing and you get some people that well yeah. You were just floating that you were just holding it, but I kind of felt like I had to a long, and then you get this interesting air in the middle of a flight. Well, I kind of right now when I think that, yes, of course it was you, but I

It was, I sort of knew it was you, but I at emotionally just completely. I could only experience it as a terrifying floating bottle or whatever it was. So that's a bit like an actor like getting caught up in a roll. I guess like they know they know they're on stage and it's a character, but nonetheless emotionally committed and at the other extreme people. That would not accept that it was floating it just say that must have been a wire or something there's. No there's no way that I could drop you back at the picture in my memory of that thing, So how do you? How do you? How do you judge what that experience is once and now those people that are saying no, you were really invisible they just saying that 'cause they want to be like the best subjects and then group. I mean right now, duties it that is, is that must be a real issue right, the people that just want to please you and are playing along. Can you tell if you were I can be I can tell, but the way I use it now is kind of. I use it

sort of subtly in the show I don't like overtly hypnotize people, so that means becoming one of two things either it. Just I'm not injured people playing along because I'm not just trying to create the effect of someone hypnotize they need genuinely be responding to this thing in order for the next bit to work in which case I have to filter out anybody playing along, but occasionally occasionally not unlike a lot of the time. I can get people up on stage and I'll shake the hand in there that this, a rapid handshake induction that the guided me up just falls to the floor, and there are times that that matters and they have to be that has to be a be honest response other times I can tell there's sort of half into it and they just a bit intimidated, but for the two thousand people looking that might look, They kind of model at the same thing and that it was not exactly as our exact was at work, the handshake induction. What it's it's a! I take. No responsibility for explaining this deal, tens of millions of listeners and viewers

it's, it's your interrupting a an automatic pro That's right. This is the this is the key to it, popular, by made popular by. I guess Richard Bandler who's, the guy behind NLP and so on. I don't he kind of created this thing so perhaps Erickson before him. I don't know anyway, you you, you take an automatic process you interrupted in the middle so that when you're shaking hands with somebody, that's such a familiar process that when you start You're, not thinking? Ok, I'm going to group this person's hand. Now I'm going to move my hand up and down with them a few times then I'll take my hand away you just kind of do it automatically and there's something about interrupting that that leaves people really flummoxed and bewildered 'cause they're real it really caught off guard. Like you mentioned, somebody comes up in the street and says it's not half past seven. You know your reason to go yeah. I know it's. Twenty plus nine. Your reaction is a sort of you.

You've missed something what you're trying to make sense of it? It's a strange kind of put you on the back foot and at that point, if you to, if you've, got somebody who's very suggestible and people coming up on stage is such an old moment for them anyway than actually very suggestible. The clear instruction to sleep or whatever you want to give them, tends to be taken very deeply and very often then you'll see on shake hands and I'll I'll break the patent. The handshakes all and take their hand and lifted up to the face and save sleep and show them that had like that and they just sleep and what not sleep, but it's a kind of it looks like I mean they do anything from eyes. Closed head drops down to just drop like a like a dead weight, floor. You know I found most interesting. Actually was I like applying this in slightly more useful, everyday situations where as a sort of like a self defense.

This technique I was walking between so it's like must have been like twenty or something, and I was at a magic convention and I was walking from one hotel to another. I'm dressed like a three piece velvet suit, as this skinny british lab might as well. Have punch me in the throat tattooed across my face and this guy comes up and it's like it's drunk it's about three hundred in the morning. Drunk aggressive is, with his girlfriend clearly looking for a fight, and he sort of he comes up to me and he says what he already fucking. Looking at me looking at and because I'd spoken about this, how to so with this sort of thing, but it never found myself in this situation, I kind of had it all mentally rehearsed. So I said to him: I said the Wall inside my house. Isn't four foot high and I guess there's an equivalent to this with sort of adrenaline dump. I think it's called in martial arts, but there's a it. It just like he's, got all this adrenaline and then a thing like that for me,

which is just out of context like it makes sense, I'm not like talking gibberish, it makes sense, but it's just out of context now suddenly he's thinking well, I've what I've missed something sent out. He he was at the front wall and I said the the is go from walked off. I said the the one outside my house isn't full full. Why I spent some time in Spain, the walls that were very high, but if you look at the ones here that the tiny that nothing sort of break down easily what war ha ha and start crying what you eat. No it wasn't but crying, but it was just. It was like all the adrenaline everything just just flooded out of him and he sat down and I are sitting next to him on the line on the road side offering him you know. So what I was the plan was, I was going to try and stick. Is feet to the floor and that his whole family just kind of collapsed and sat down. So it's like his feet forward, hypnosis yeah. That was because I knew it would like this highly suggest, Obel State and either way the moment of aggression past, but I ended up ended up really sitting with him asking him

happened that evening and his girlfriend. I think she bottled somebody listening or will it have she's, so we got out of those aggression, but it's a it's a good one if you just have like it could be just a song, lyric or just some some weird kind of thing that you can just go into it in the the situations that I mean if someone is running it with a knife, it's a bit difficult, but you just kind of strangely taking control, The situation- I was what you gonna do, if they say will be looking at the economy, is not what you cannot do that without being on the back foot, which is kind of nicely kind of inverts the situation and puts them on the back foot, which anyway worked. It was a. It was kind of fun the that is something like a process required to hypnotize someone. You could just do it that way and say it just talk them through some sort of a program that makes him think their foot is stuck to the floor. I.

It it depends on the moment I had I used to hypnotize people in my in my room when I was a student right, so I was the guy that did not have people coming in regularly coming to try it out and I just this one time I used to leave people with like if they were responsive to it, and this is I was really early days. Just like you know, twenty minutes, half an hour of relaxing somebody, maybe suggesting that the hands were getting line floating all heavy and they couldn't lift and so kind of you know kind of basic stuff. But I would leave with a very suggestible with the instruction that when you come back, if I click my fingers, you'll get back into the sleep state and they you know they kind of get condition to that. You know it'll often work even like a week later and this guy came- and I thought I'd seen before I thought the pin on the previous week. So I sat down and I can't look at me and sleep click my fingers and he went out whatever that means right, and then we did whatever it was. Maybe you know if you wanted to stop small

king of his hands floating in the air, whatever it was at the end of it. I realized in talking to that. I hadn't met him before so then I'm like well, how do how did why? Did you respond to me clicking my fingers and 'cause? I do magic. Fingers is nothing like anything going on here than I realized. It was just that it was just that moment of my kind of confidence with the and the fact full that he was also very suggestible and put those two things together. That's what made it work. It was just that dot psychological moment for him. That was more important than the nature of the twenty minute scripted. I've been learning and using up to that point. So I was kind of a sub was a seminal sort of your your confidence in that he had already been under yeah. I didn't question it because I write, I believed he had done it to just kind of it just sort of happened, and then he just if you hadn't, been a suggestible type and it probably wouldn't of works yeah. But luckily he wasn't that kind of really really change the way that I that I yeah, I thought about it and also started this in

this realization that, ultimately, might my kind of tool kit with what I do is is the stories that people are telling themselves. That's that's kind of that's You know all there is even a magician showing you a card trick is just getting you to tell yourself a story edit edit this event in such a way that you so you know I picked a card and then it disappeared and it was it was in. My pocket, he never went near me and you read it out all the bits that don't seem important like when he complemented your new jacket earlier The day may have soccer caught in that role the bit when he took the call back from or whatever, because you don't. You know you you'll you'll, being sold a story with particular sort of edit points, and you know is to me that's interesting, because, as well as what life is, you know we have this infinite data source coming at us, and we can that we just. We have to kind of reduce it to stores to

like to make sense, I think stripping aside all the kind of Orville and Tackett associations of hypnotists and magicians, and so I think that's something that's something interesting at the heart of it. I think that our story, telling capacity, is endlessly fascinating to me. Well, it's fascinating in that regard, but it's also fascinating that that seems to be like some cheat code to the human mind like there's a is a way you can like a lock intellect an admin panel, and also it and you're you're doing things like telling people they don't really don't want to be smoking or putting them into this hypnotic mindset by just snapping your fingers and saying sleep like it's odd, I don't think, there's something it is that I think it looks like that and that's the problem because it looked it. It's so often see it when Performers are doing it and they're often going for kind of theatrical effect. If you go and look at it like a clinical,

environment, where hypnosis being investigated. Is it isn't like that at home, it's much more, a boring in a wise isn't doesn't have any theater attached to it runs much more on in a kind of intuitively. Understandable Hello can been yourself, I'm terrible in the really bad really bad subject. I had one experience where I only When I was in like a workshop thing that I was there is, like a you know, paying person, I wasn't giving the workshop and I was sent with the the the the exercise was it rate really work for me and my work from this. So you spent a pass and the idea is, you start to describe a scene, so you set up set with this woman who closure eyes. You start to describe a scene and you get back and forth adding details right. So she says I have a cam laying on a beach and I'm. So I just imagine that, like ok, I'm going to be should I can. I can feel the warmth of the sun on my face

kind of like imagining it and joining in with the story, and then I just remember so, Ok, guys time up time for lunch, and I had been on a beehive beat on the beach and I had completely just I'd. Been there like a dream, it was completely real at some point it tipped into that. That's the only experience I've had of it other than that. I don't respond to I'm just not. I think it's just just suggestibility it's something about, and we get it when you know where you could get a dog to give this up to see, but only respond to that because this was already figure is giving us that all the way we've sold Opinions of people that we admire and experts that we admire how we just more easily take those on board on questioning Lee. This is all the same thing. It's just suggestion the trouble is it. Is it most the time it's done through the the world of the performing hypnotist, which isn't isn't giving really very clear, unfair view of, what's of what's going on, because it's so theatrical, and so

here is you often you know your relishing in things like I click. My fingers in the sky went to sleep, but that's not really. You know the they're doing their car. They just, I think it's kind of, and could you please ask them too, and they know that when you click the fingers were supposed to go to sleep is there's a real range of possible experiences that you might look like a power, but it doesn't mean it is, they might just be just complying I was going to do some of the stuff on stage without using the hypnosis to show that this, I think, there's anything that happens under hypnosis that can't be done without it I was having this discussion with my friend Andy, who directs and CO writes. Mistake shows with me- and I was saying like that thing of you know when you well

hypnotist get somewhere to eat an onion and says you know this is a classic hypnotic stand dinner or onion and says it's a delicious juicy apple now eat it and enjoy it. You get somebody munching into an onion and like having no problem meeting it and I was like I'm sure, uh huh it's like, if you're just going to pull it off without hypnosis. With that just happened anyway and Andy said I bet I bet you can just do it anyway, and he went to my fridge, took out an onion took a big bite of it and it was fine 'cause he's right, so he's proving a point there so in a different mental state than going on a day to take a bite of onion when suddenly a like your emptying the you know the discussed and all the reasons not to do it, but the fact that he was just going. I bet you can do it and trying to prove a point and he did it and it was fine. So that was a different mental state and it worked because I wasn't hypnosis, but the end result still, if you do that on stage, it to hypnotize somebody first, it would look like you. Something amazing. So I don't know it's to me: it's just

just that story, that someone is telling them selves, we didn't it. Did it taste like yeah so now it's just it's just. It would have no no no but it tasted like an onion. I love is no suggestion about the people that are hypnotized. Does it taste like an apple to them Well, I don't know it's like in my mind, visible one of the. What are they saying? I thinks for some of them. It will. You know, taste in pain, and things of that discomfort is all very subjective, but the end result of doing this thing that looks like it couldn't happen with some magical process, that's the key and none these things? We demand that Matt, even even when you look at people being getting surgery through hypnosis and being wide awake and being cut open. So you think well, that must be evidenced. The hypnosis is some special things that could happen. Otherwise, but it cause it. Can you know the layer of skin that feels pain is actually sort of quiet thin. So once you get through that, when you being organs around. That's not that's, not a painful process. Anyway, plus sorry for the intended use a bit a little bit of like a local Anna,

stick anyway, just to numb the very top. They have skin so again, what looks amazing very often? Isn't it? it's an endlessly rich and bizarre area. And I kind of an as I said I don't really think of myself as images, but the the that process that kind of ability for people to get into this space where they can have that kind of experience is, is something I you know. Hello is find interest a little one of the recent stage, as I did school miracle, and if you but I'm faith healing in the second half so using exactly the same idea alive. I don't know what is that a light? May you know that I believe, and I'm saying what I'm you know, I'm an atheist. I believe in this are the, but would you just kind of go? with me at least at the start, because the results are already, and I I just started doing this? There's something fighting not really knowing if it was going to work. I thought I can

this adrenaline going and I know- could see the techniques the the charlatan face- because we're using- and I thought I just I'll. Do that, but I thought well, the adrenaline kills pains if I get some adrenaline going. This bow to be people? That said, I had a pain in my back and now it's gone, the actual results, admittedly with like small percent is the audience right, not everybody, but the people that were coming up and saying. I have this problem and now it's gone and there were. There was a a woman that had shipping paralyzed on one side of her body. Since a kid and she's like in her 40s now she's in floods of tears, go thing, I could move my arm, and this was. This is a skeptic. Audience like me, that no that that's kind of playing along with something and nonetheless, again small percentage, not not not everybody but having having these kind of experiences. It is, So that's the psychological component of suffering, which is which is which was really eye, opening doing that show night after night after night, well, faith healing is going to be a form of hypnosis

yeah it's all. This is exactly it's. The same world is playing. They both well they're, both joy This is the idea of suggest ability, and it doesn't it and sometimes those healings, are sort of. I mean if you take an x ray before and it was nothing is changing, but in as much as a lot can and on the psychological component. It can can really make a difference. It gets there these are getting smaller, so three thousand people in the audience three hundred people come up, ten people stage involving them in the show, but getting even smaller. There are people that, like a year later, getting in touch and say just so. You know that thing did actually click like it hasn't come back 'cause. I thought it would only last for when is father on stage and then, which is why you don't tell people to throw them other way and so on right. But a rim, probably like that Alpha percent now she's always going to be kind of pretty extraordinary but uh. It was like a real, a real thing, so I would still, if you had two hundred people and one of them actually cured from that. That is

immensely bizarre. It's immensely bizarre, but it's bizarre and and on like. I had this some bad shoulder for a long time and I got really When I put a jacket on kind of putting this in. Left on, putting it in like letting my left arm go dead and then using my right arm to pull that thing up right, Now I don't know how much I really need to do that anymore or whether I'm just doing it out of habit. But if somebody got me, on stage and said your left. Shoulder is healed. It's happened now and kind of made me feel a bit better. Now gone Try it try, move your move, your arm, I think in the surprise of it the sheer kind of just snapping out of that It is of being like this is my I probably would be very surprised that I could actually move it as much as I can. You know it's just it's like when you break down, it's like not that amazing. But when you, when you, when you see the the more What kind of extreme exciting ends into that? It's!

define blowing, and then you realize how these performers, how you start to go mad yourself and think. Well, I've got this special gift and I could pack out stadia doing like. I did think of one point: why don't I do like secular healing show I can say this is it doesn't work and everybody, and it may only work for ten minutes, but it only works in some meaning of the word anyway, I didn't do that, but you know you can start to go mad processes of the mind. I mean that the idea of the placebo effect is fascinating. See that your mind has some ability that you can't tap into consciously, but you ten in some sort of a subconscious sense some gives you something and if you're convinced that it's doing something positive, it actually will have some benefit. A of real, tangible, measurable benefit, and it doesn't seem to make since there's no mechanism that we can trace there's no mechanism. What I

looks pretty well as I've done. A few shows on to see, though, is for me I found the key is the person gets to absolve any responsibility for the change themselves. So they are not a couple things with this new show have on the Netflix. Now could sacrifice a guy things got a microchip implanted in them, which is doing a work. Another showdown is was to see them injections. They were getting so the field in the drug is doing the work, but the key is they don't have to that that they're the I think, they're doing any work until this thing is taking care of that for me and that's really powerful because suddenly its it's the thing of I I don't have to do, I don't the post thing. I don't have to make this happen myself. There is no owners on the. I don't have to do any anything. This magic formula is somehow doing. It is hugely powerful,

so that yeah, that's that's a that's a, I think, that's a big, a big part of it, which is why a lot of the when we, when we, when we did the procedure program, we cry to this whole like come fake, pharmacological building. We had a building, we just you know, kick fitted out with actors and equipment and stuff to just create this environment that was going to be convincing, for the injections were even given the wrong people that had various like fee is old problems. All things that would be just gonna just investigate and see how well the receiver worked and yeah they. It did, but that that that's a helpful thing feeling this just something in you making it making it happen, almost like a subconscious optimism or something like that, yeah I've wondered if that. Sort of mindset that allow oz, you to experience a beneficial result of of. If that it in some way transfers over to everyday life. Events, if

having this may be unfair. Sense of optimism or this bizarrely positive outlook. This almost, new confidence actually can have some sort of a beneficial, tangible result in the real world. In terms of actual events that take place, whether it's because of the way you interact with other human being, that they are being influenced by your positive attitude, attitude and energy and confidence and enthusiasm, and then therefore, things go smooth or whether it's really some sort of a factor of the way you interchange with reality itself and that your attitude actually has an effect on events. I I think it gets vastly overrated. I'm a big advocate of strategic pessimism. I think the problem with that kind of problem with unwavering self belief. Yeah is that it just doesn't doesn't quite

happens and how life works right. I think what I think the Greeks have this down. So if you imagine a kind of a Groff, so you've got your your was at the Y axis going up here of your aims and things you want to achieve, and the x axis is just what these tickle fortune stuff, that life throws back at you, that you have no control over no control at so we are told, a lot nowadays that you just you know set your. Please believe in yourself, visualize this and as if we can crank up the sort of the line that we're living. Yes up in line with our goals and all the you know, Ames and so on. The reality is there was life like pushing back yeah, so what you, what we lead is at x, equals. Why line that that's a kind of more realistic. I think a price of what a life is so actually kind of sort of, I think, make

in peace with that which allows for all the optimism you want, but also makes peace with the fact that at some point that might let you down. You know you can spend your life The then realize you had it against the wrong wall. To quote Joseph Joseph Campbell, you can set goals that they may just be the wrong goals and may achieve them and then, like you know now on, I've got a friend who, a long time building up a company and and it's been driven to do this on his life because he like needed to sort of a chief to feel like you know that he was kind of really worth something that was. It was all about achievement, and then he beat the company and he's that dream- and then I don't know to do with this life that search was still that now I had nowhere to go and actually ended up in therapy because of it. It was such a strong, actually counterintuitive thing, so I you know I'm all about

changing the world for the better, but I think we have to make mental space for the fact that I and I went when the Floyd crazy. So I could have said you wasn't trying to make people happy he go to He called it restoring restoring natural unhappiness. Like you know, life is basically be unhappy sometimes, and he was trying to get I'm not as he saw like I sort of neurotic unhappiness and restore a kind of an easy relationship to life and fortune to that's that's the case, I'm always a bit was a bit skeptical of the kind of just on wavering, positivity yeah. No, I agree with you. I mean I think that unwavering positivity is usually to lose yeah but a certain amount of positivity schools Well, yeah, of course, a certain amount of certain amount of the dangers here. It's like it's like the faith, healers right, so the faith healing thing of you go away. Don't take your pills and if this,

vision, returns which it's going to it's your own fault, because you didn't have enough faith right now. That's quite a toxic cycle of self blame. It's exactly! the same cycle that you get when you read like the secret, for example. Yes, it's quite explicitly if these great, don't come, your way because yourself believe wave it for second, you any have accepted, but she's very explicit about that and that that's the problem. It's it it's great. If you can put at a certain context. If not, it sadly can be a recipe. I think for anxiety in a just a feeling of failure that you don't understand where it's come from well, but I was trying to get out. Was I wonder if it's a component in a much larger picture, not that it's the one thing like the key like the real problem, the secret is the idea that you're taking all these people that are already successful, they've achieved a certain result and then you're asking them. How did you achieve that result? Well, I thought positive and I just really put my mind to it and I dreamt on it. They all

Have this in common? Yes, well, you know also the positive bunch lose yeah yeah. They tried, and you know they got hit in the head by asteroids or car accidents, or the world turned bad on them. That actually can happen too. So it's just using you have a biased focus group he's a yes exactly exactly, and the idea of setting a goal thing citing on and ignoring all the haters and ignoring all the people that will bring you down is a perfect recipe for failure as much as as it's a common anecdotal stories success. Well, the problem with that is, if you just focus on the one thing that the thing about human beings, I think, is that we really do need other people's input and interaction the. I do that you're going to work in a vacuum and create this great masterpiece without any interaction with other human beings that doesn't really. It doesn't really work like that. It doesn't because life is active and messy an ambiguous and ambivalent. I think the trouble

we get hung up on nouns like happiness, meaning or even the self right 'cause. I think I, these things are verbs there. Maybe we selves as a verb- you know- maybe it's something that happens dynamic in the relationships that were it. Maybe a self is something that kind of extends out. The world in a kind of fluid in that way and happiness. Is. Maybe that's an activity, meaning is maybe an activity, but we we reduce these things to nouns like they're, really neat easy, isolated things. And they're really not so I can in the a lot of that, the tv shows that I do. I'm putting people through like a transformative process. I, they they're reacting to kind of really extreme situations, and I always had people saying I wouldn't do that either, but think it's all fake, as I would never do that, but their viewing themselves as this isolated, it's just a sort of individual kind of separated for everything else, watching that and thinking how they behave well, they're not doing,

king and, if I were in that situation, the same pressures. Yes, what and then that's. That's amazing that that those changes that were not there is enough for three hundred years we've had this idea that we are the I'm kind of a ill goes back to like not being influenced by kings and priests like it was. This is John Locke is not the The beginnings of that idea that no no, we should not. We should have this kind of personal authority and it's drifted into uh through can't. I think it's, fit into a really unrealistic and unfair sense of how isolated we are we're, not we clearly social creatures, I don't know, there's a show on Netflix called the push which I did, which was to see whether, if you create this environment, social compliance. So it's a big party right, there's one guy and it doesn't know that this is being filmed. That is part of a tv show. Everybody else is an actor.

Plot, was to see. Could you get him to murder? Somebody stroll to push someone off the roof to the death. As far as he's concerned, I it doesn't no one really dies right and it just stop so if you got it gets roped into helping out at this event, and it's a big high stakes, and everyone's in a tuxedo but he didn't get the memo for the dress codes. We already comes in feeling a bit like, and then he gets he gets roped into helping out and like the first thing is asked to do is to label them. Meat filled sausage, roll snacks as vegetarian right, because they, the vision Months have been delivered so just like a little cut, a foot in the door thing and it just builds, and it builds and a guess at this point when he's on a roof. Having been through this really I dog, extraordinary, I'm sort of hilarious and massively exhausted. You suggest is a lot of emotions you go through and you watch it and then faced with this massive pressure to to to kill this kind

I don't know I don't want to spoil the ending as it's a stinker butt. This is like it's that's what It's all about. You know how your, how your sense of this, like the story you tell yourself about who you are it just isn't, isn't isn't real country about the new shipment about net. At the sacrifice. You talk about anything you want, but can I ask you one question about this? What I mean do you feel a certain sense of more old confusion when trying to talk someone into potentially in you realize that if this wasn't a show, a similar or maybe even more powerful pressures were in play, and this I was suggestible, and he found himself in very unusual circumstances where it seemed like a good idea to kill this person like you're introducing this thought and this scenario into a person's mind that perhaps could go cradle to the grave and never have that

it's it's kind of the opposite, what it actually, but this is not about the money giving away the ending, but the what it does is mean actually mentally rehearse somebody what what this guy took away from it is the no age, the if he was ever in a situation again where there was anything like that nature of compliance that he now has the tools to just like stand up to You need that kind of rational, rising and likewise for viewers, hopefully watching it too kind of the idea. You were all Ginny rehearsing it with him unless you've been trained in Often you know it like that. You need ' an emotional experience of it to know when that thing happens, to just have the resource is to understand that you can be so. These are very, although it does. I rely It doesn't sound like it and that show the purchase. I mean it's kind of like the darkest of all the shows, but they are. They are there for a good reason, as like uh

reason for doing it. Everybody that comes away is always like. You know that that is. That was a great thing to do best thing. I've ever done. You know these kind of, even though the journeys themselves look you look very dark, but he sounds like the guy who had a positive outlook on it sounds like a person who it can learn from their mistakes yeah, but there's some people don't. When confronted with some new situation like wow, I really was going to push that guy off the roof. This is me, like. I didn't think that was me now I know now. I know that I'm capable of doing that if I get manipulated to the point like wow and then they have a lot of like real confusion and an and perhaps a lack of faith in themselves and their ability to decision. That's kind of that's kind of my job to make sure that the the framing in there yeah, that's kind of I mean I get. These are ethical questions that are worth asking. Ultimately, my concern with these uh.

A lot of the shows, what people are put through these dog journeys to reach a valuable point, more more valuable than perhaps the end of the push which it's quite dog, but on the night, my only real concern is there experience of the guy that has just done this new show, for example, I said to before I came out and started talking about the show. I said: what do you want me to say about your experience, and he said it aside from having my kids. That is the best thing I've ever done but I know other people watching this show will say. How can you? How can you justify that you're manipulating somebody, and why did you not just want to kill you at the end of it and but the is it's just this one guys experience that I care about and that's something that I can manage and create and make sure that he's left the right way and also these people I just right- will remain friends with the rest of my life. So it's not like great on the tv show. Thank you goodbye. This is right and there's a a genuine non intimate bond What we, what we will end up falling in love. It would like me in the production team falling in love with these people should get put in through this

ten month projects different with them sacrifice, because he he needs that he was taking part in one show, which is a documentary when actually there's this whole other thing going on, but a lot of the time they have no idea. How long was push for look good? She was well that was only like it. That was a they're not one evening about to fill me wow that day, because it was one like real time event, but the preparation for it, you know, does back of it. I did it the biggest one was, I did a show called Apocalypse which isn't on Netflix I mean if you go down the rabbit hole to be somewhere on Youtube, where we ended, sold somebody so we we took control of his news feed his tv we've filmed like special. Tv shows on you shows that watch fed them into his tv, no drip by drip created the idea the world was going to end. It was going to be this meteor strike, even I could be at the cafe and the radio in the calf, because we've never been that cafe. That's a radio playing with D Js that he knows that we're talking about this thing

that is supposed to happen home on the stage it we stage this pyrotechnic end of the world thing in this kind of sort of controlled enough environment. We could get him into what we could states that convincingly and he wakes up in the second set of episodes. A two episode thing in this post, apocalyptic seemingly light weeks later in a hospital like everyone's gone, the places of and and some infection is plot through the the wizard of OZ, to find his way back home and the point of it was the stomach idea of valuing, but you have 'cause. This was somebody who, by all report, This was in a lazy, selfish, took advantage of his parents, who was living with never had a Pajama was just kind of like needed to value what he had said. The stoics would say you know just rehearsed taking everything away. So when you return to the stuff, you have you value that, rather than just always desiring more, so that was that idea, kind of writ large take everything away and the world

again like it was transformed by it really changed you still in touch with this yeah yeah, absolutely yeah. So this is a permanent shift. Permanent, if she ended up being a teacher in a special needs school that is kind of worked his way up through his now, like you know, he's getting married and it is lovely, that's crazy! Not that I take credit for all of that, but it was definitely a big part of that. One near death experiences are often incredibly beneficial to people they make big, change shifts in their attitude and their perception of the world and they realize that time really is finite and it could have been taken away from them and they feel like they. New lease on life? I mean you really can become a totally different person after something like that. Well, that's that sills what's happened with this guy fills in the in this. New show, which is also the first like brand new thing. I've done for for Netflix as a couple of other shows, what is it called? It's called sacrificed sacrificed. So the plot is, I take this guy Phil

who is an american guy, his father's father's British got through to british links, but he's in american guy living in Florida, cocoa, Beach, FL, big right wing, guy, strong views against immigration, and I using these covert psychological techniques. Try and get him to the point where he will willingly lay down his life and take a bullet for an illegal mexican immigrant. Only somebody believes is you know it's an actor 'cause, it's at the whole thing with your whole thing with actors, so so he went through this journey, which is not is not a political story at all. I mean, obviously it kind of thing it resonates, but was ultimately story about compassion and and uh and humanity in this ultimately very human moment that he that he found himself in- and you know the guys like made a huge,

difference to him, you know it's it's. This is I've, got I've kind of giveaway, exactly how it turns out the process takes about ten months for him for him it was like, maybe three four months. It was like the beginning block of this year, but there's two levels to making these shows you've got a right. The idea that this is the the show and find and make that happen for him, but you've also got to create. This whole thing has like this kind of show it all you creating a fiction for somebody that has to be complete Vincent, that's a whole other level of of kind of work. Plus. You know you gotta make sure these guys robust enough to go through something like that as a whole vetting procedure that has to happen without him, realizing what it's all about. That's a great way of putting it real bus, the bus, psychologically right, yeah yeah, that is a crazy amount of preparation and production work, is yeah. It's it's! It's huge in the apocalypse show. That was not one moment. Let me have to just make this guy's, because there was the idea: there's electrical interference with the media's just out to make his tv pop off in his room like just a beat up.

Cut out and to do that there were two guys out in his garden shed weight It had to be there all day. 'cause I couldn't come in at the garden 'cause. We might soon pulling a cable at this moment to make that Liga, but then they couldn't leave because it might seem so they have to spend the night in this garden She said she misses out after three months of not having a day off as well. So that's like a nothing moment. The normal ever remember from the show, but yeah she amount of huge amount of work, I wish that people say: oh, it's all fake, you haven't really done it and I think it's just it's. They won't believe should actually go to all that trouble for the paranoid like if you did, that to a naturally paranoid person or person with a touch of schizophrenia. Which is why they have to be vetted very carefully for very careful on at any point during the process. Of course, we can like stop it. I guess I can, but that would suck when it would start with some reason we see a guy start. Question reality and look at clouds, odd way of saying, oh boy. I think I think he's slipping away, yeah

so yeah that's never happened. It's always been. It's always been hugely talented. Amazing process, though I mean It's amazing how much prep work is involved in something like that. Just set up, radio with a walk in yeah yeah yeah news broadcast this I mean that is that's fun. The ten most terrifying that was the was the for him is the kind of an end of the world moment, because we have this fate fate. Radio broadcasts from from the BBC, she's, so convincing, was July House Major, but go cold war of words type stuff. But in this like in this thing and in sacrifice, there was a like a amazing, pivotal moment in it when he we do this staring tests, which is Well it by New York. Psychology, professor in the ideas you might have come across it just stare silently into someone's eyes for four minutes, and I it's most amazing things always hit

things. You listen more quickness in this kind of you know, giggling and, and then that tends to stop, and then you just facing a human being and what you've you've sort of somehow broken through all the kind of crap and then you check see like a person, that's like living and calling like you are in some with a private life that, like that's a big thing for me, like you know, we we we go through life seeing people generally generally the best light you know. Generally people will present the best version of themselves to you. Have a couple of the data you'll tend to see that couple of the best, so you have the skewed idea of how to get the other people. How impressive other people are, how great other couples are compared to how you are with your partner and you we miss that like good with that, because we know for us we have this big, clumsy, embarrassing, lumbering giant of a of a private life. This is following is round, and it's critically now. You know with Instagram let people

branding themselves yeah. I mean it's like it's so unfair in terms of the the difference between how you perceive yourself, and I perceive everybody else so again, you have this to the the stories that would kind of living out so that you that you know it takes like four minutes of this bizarre staring thing to kind of reach. Him of just suddenly. I think heating, point of just seeing another human being and everything that comes with that there's a big moment for this guy Phil going through it was a really which, a couple things than that you see in the show, don't don't work out quite well and then and then this really among implosion all my money. He just has this been a big change. The it was also just being able to a tv show that really like changes, somebody quite aside from how

open the show is or how well it works as a show or who watched it whatever just to actually feel like. You know at some point in my life, I've just like done a positive thing, but just for one person with tv which is like you know, generally kind of a pretty moronic kind of medium. So to be able to just do something meaningful as Xena. Is this good bliss and it sounds amazing, It doesn't just sound good. It sounds like quite a work of art. They even managed to figure out a way to coordinate all these moving parts, an trick, someone into accepting a bunch of different versions of out of the. U presenting yeah, get these results, it's it! Well, it's a good, a big production crew. The working as normal may have to write the thing and you know on and so on that the the we kind of worked on

over the years, we had small little things that involved uh involve those kind of plots that there was the first show I did like that was uhm uh, taking a guy who it down. As with and sacrifice that she's bringing out someones hero right? That's really what it's about that's kind of the story: you're, seeing somebody go through a big change, but bring out the hero and the The first thing we did like that involve this guy who, at the end of this his own like Journey had been through, finds himself on. Airplane is terrified of flying, but we created the situation. We had to be on a flight and he didn't have anything to do with us. Everyone's an act, bring the plane. We've got hidden cameras throughout the plane, there's this there's a medical emergency and will somebody land the plane. Someone needs to learn to find out what he step up and do it yeah. It's called hero

two thousand eight uses. I just just to talk to the ending is or is not at all is a spoiler, but it does about he he he does it right, he's rises up. Has this moment he goes to the cockpit. Now he is highly suggestible right. I've used him because his suggestible, so I know that I can put him to sleep in a vertical- was by clicking my fingers on his condition to that yeah. So I step out before into the carpet click. My fingers heaps absorb sound, is very condition to this. Throughout the process statement will show we land the plane, he wakes up in a about to walk into one of those convincing simulators it either they use for for pilot training and it's kind of a night flight to that was to be found out. I was the most convincing thing was to have it when it's dark so he now goes in believing is in the real culprit of a real plane. Thirty feet at thirty thousand feet up in the air. He's got the guy and ground control who is you know in on it overseas? Everybody is talking him down getting into the on the plane on the chest. It's just amazing. This guy is

guy, as in his mind, you know, is the landings plane, saving the lives of three hundred people and then he steps out and then the thing is revealed to him and it's so emotional and then there's a you know the game. Isn't the Michael Douglas Filomeno this. So this is always been a point of reference is made, so he comes out like a big party of everyone- has been on his journey all these people. These actors that have been you know taking in this direction, so some agents I've over the years kind of work. With these kind of these plots, these kind of immersive Truman show style plots one I'm done doing stage shows to in order to live, show every year as well, which is kind of a bit more like an old fashioned sort of magic, mind, reading kind of kind of show, but a yeah they all they all these. You know these extremely jealous by

Do not maybe one a year because they take you know they just takes, seems not only to take too much time, but it also route. You rely so heavily on the improvisational abilities of all these other people really do it just an act, normal yeah and and to be convincing and to follow the plot not deviate at all and the l, a actors we used for sacrifices were so good, let's just like it's just like in your blood over here, you're ever so so good, and they were like big at the end that, like big sort of aggressive racist, biker characters that we use terrifying yeah, which is they're hilarious thing of like they are because they will bike. Well, so they are big like hairy, intimidating people. At the same time, they want to know about the motivation and whether they did a write in this kind of artists find audio on combination wow. What a fantastic idea- show, and so uniquely original I mean it's It just seems like there's so much work involved in something like this

must obsess over that. The process. Is I come up with ideas are like, let's, which is normally we sit. I sit with a couple of guys that are right. That shows with we know only drive ourselves, mad think it is and then one of us normally goes. I can't we just let's just end is: let's we can get push zombies, willing over this one, because I don the push I wanted to kind of do the opposite of a summit- be saving a life, much more redemptive story than than the push. So the idea was the first thing about trying combine a really strong, dramatic cook, with a really got a good reason for doing it. Otherwise, you just making like a controversial, shocking thing for the same right, which is of no interest so well. That's a beautiful perspective to the do. You actually want to benefit someone through this crazy, prank you're playing on the yeah yeah.

What exactly would just be a crazy horrible yeah and those that was like part of the enjoyment of the show. I guess is a little bit of that. It's kind of fall short and a little bit, but that's that's the the you know the the shows. I think they have a lot of heart and a lot of them. Thought. You're intending to be beneficial to these people is what transforms it. You have empathy for these folks yeah and you you. You truly care that that alone makes everything else better. It makes the whole like if the whole thing it's just like, I'm smarter than these dummies, and I'm just going to trick them and we've had that show before many many times and make people feel tear on cringe inducing when you watch it, you can't look away but that your do doing this and the end result is actually a benefit, their perspective and actually might change their life the better that's extraordinary, that's amazing! Thank you. Well, that's the hope, the way

I do the way that I change image through conditioning. So I this is a technique of used a lot over the years of you kind of take the emotional state. You want the person to have at the end, break it down into components and then attach each one of those to a to a trick us. So this guy Phil in sacrifice is using. I can act which he thinks is sort of talking to this at the micro chip he has in him because he thinks it's a things with him. I we really do not cut him open and yeah, we just don't it's perceived that we don't really put it in, but he now thinks you should cut him yeah. We cut him and get it back up again stitch it back up, yeah he needs that doesn't need stitches for it's a kind of kind of a small car, but it's a scalpel going in horrible, so he thinks he's using this app, which is kind of help. Motivated, but what it's doing it's at it's giving in this sound like this little jingle that gets attached to all those feelings of motivation. So that means that when he

himself in this kind of final scene where he has this choice to step in, and save a life that we can have the same jingle on the radio that plays- and it's not the thing You hear a song when you're breaking up with someone and it's a horrible period of your life and then five years later you hear the same song and it just brings it all back here. Is that process? Obviously, like you know, advertising is the big example of that is not the premise behind something like the manchurian candidate that there's some way they can snap Then you go back to this one. Well, that yeah that's more kind of I guess over the is it not a suggestion. This isn't. This is more gentle because he needed to make the decision and Self Route. It was not the be some kind of hypnotize wrobel if that would even work anyway. You know this is this. Is this is about a creating a trigger for this feeling? of empathy or important low, the shows about everything and all the shows about the design to act and then he's he finds himself in this so

mission, which is extremely has no idea at this point. It's anything to do with like the films finish. That will happen in England as far as your concern is gone back home had time to forget about it and then ends up stranded in this situation, where it all happens, and then I trigger these things off so I'm giving in this kind of psychological nudge and then it's you know what will happen Willy Willy Willy rise up and take it like the guy landing the plane, it's kind of like what. Ultimately you know it's that guy's decision, and it's also, I think it's uh, story about stepping out of the kind of the the the the the the theory. I guess the show resonates politically, but it's not a political show that the there's like they're a political narratives, beget constrain bind. We forget that Actually, it's the Donald between the sides that do you know where humanity emerges and what we find truth. So this is also a story about a guy coming out of his particular socio political narrative and just finding something that old.

Lee is just at human, human quality, kindness, compassion- and these are not political qualities. Although they end up getting politicized but they're, not they're, not. I think there are a lot of we're going to watch this and want that to happen to them like. I need some sort of a transformative, prank played on need to return it because I think people do and we we do get caught and ruts right, we do get stuck on momentum, we get. We get stuck following the same patterns over and over again, it's very difficult to change your life this is it this? Is it well, but the thing that makes us so great at evolving. Our ability to adapt is the same thing that just it ties us down to, like your life so from an early age like we emerge in this world and we're very quickly given messages about what our relations with that ship to that world is. This is what people are like. This is what they want from you. You are not powerful. The world is powerful, Is it going to be skewed? Young said that you know the I love this at the greatest burden of child has to bear. Is the une lived life of its parent?

It's such a great thing: you're starting point is this skewed story, and then you just go through life, looking for things that just fit and recreate those those patterns 'cause, they feel so comfortable. You know your what you learn about love from your parents. You start to bring to your adult relationships and project all that stuff on on your partner. If you think about you, know the if you've had a nice loving, upbringing. You are getting a ridiculously skewed version of what love means that we know as adults how difficult it is raising kids. We have a soul that, as kids we never parents going off. Screaming at each other, the next three months to go to bed. We just have this sort of, and possibly a hopefully you know if we had a had a happy one, we get this impossible template of what love is, it should be, and then we just dump that on the poor, adult partners which nobody can live up to, so our ability to adapt to internalize.

Stories about who we are and then like mistake. That, for reality, is just is just what makes living just difficult, and complex and also the narratives that come through fiction. Narratives from films and book and yes, songs, the the the versions of romance and yes to route driver yeah it with that yeah. I I love the idea that, and if you never learned about tone, is a the british philosopher in Russia and he's he said. You know if you, if you go to bed twice a week with your partner thinking uh, the Falcom I doing with this person. That's normal right, that's a normal thing. I like to me that's more useful information than you know how to make your relationship perfect, like these things, aren't perfect and again living living with the understanding that you know, life is difficult

but three times a week three times a week? I think that's probably pretty normal as well. Is there anything interesting generous? What's the number where you should start to reconsider? Now, five two goodnight so we have two good lights, though five nights a hell with two of 'em chow she's, the best yeah. What do you do? What do you do? Yeah? I think the narratives that we get from fiction or they're very confusing to people, particularly people that are very romantic. They have these ideas that their life is going to be like one of their favorite films and that that's what they're looking for their holding out they're holding out for when the music plays in the close up? Is there and and those stories stop going back to this guy lander, but only read a lovely book on this- those fit the trouble with those films at those stores they stop when the people fall in love and get together. That's that's when it No that's when the tough stuff starts that we could do with some good, strong fictional frame

Yes, it is in a absorb that that's when the top stop is like it tastes like death is the same thing is that we have no we've kind of lost touch with the cultural. No, narratives around death that gave it some meaning. So now, when it happens, it's just this absurd scary thing that we don't know what who is the only narrative we have that we have absorbed. I guess is that of the the brave battle someone's fighting, which is C. I want helpful, for the person is in that situation makes it one else, maybe feel better, but just adds like eventual fate earlier and letting everyone else down to this person's burns was what they should what we should feel and that at that time is you know that this is this is when we can bring our if we have the option to to bring a storage to some kind of ending in f you. What should you watch a film or read a book that final, so make sense of everything. That's happened. Full this doesn't happen in life, it is kind of, and so we we should be like author of our stories more than at any point before DES

even if we have the opportunity, what happens is the opposite? We become like cameos in this. Or you know, the main characters are loved ones or the doctors or people making all these decisions, and we kind of get sidelined so yeah these. Fictional or or mythical storage these things that just This is a sense of where our experience fits into a one, a sense of meaning we've. You know, we've we've kind of lost touch the last couple of hundred years and as a lot of good stuff. That's come with that big, we've embraced. You know science and knowledge at the expense of superstition, of course, spot on. I you know: we've kind of lost touch of something, so we've lost a little bit of touch with nature and the the natural laws of things living and dying and I think we as human beings today are. Probably more alienated from particularly the

the farm animals and things along those lines like where, where food comes from yeah, actually seeing death. Even if your dog is sick, you bring him to the vet, the vet puts them down. You know all these things that people probably experience first hand for hundreds and hundreds years particular like raising animals, and that is just is just completely removed from the equation and for most folks yeah that sort of imported dialogue with that that Donald with with ecology with nature's ingested. As on the, I called view of like what what the kind of indigenous peoples and and looks like the do. The shame and all view of what the shame and is is so skewed by our kind of western mode yeah. What the the tapping into his not like it isn't the supernatural it's not sort of the end. It's not really the mode what you have, and you still have it in these indigenous peoples. That sort of say live like

rural Asia on that by these these, these ways of living is still going on is what's what's clear? Is it's not the supernatural? It isn't the spirit it's all about a really easy relate ship with the natural world. So an example of this is a great book called the spell of the sensuous by David Abrams, who actually was a magician originally went out and lived amongst his people, and he he talks about this, and he said there was, He was staying in this compound this shaman's compound and the The shaman's wife would bring him some fruit every morning, but you also have this little like banana leaves with rice she would. She was going off and doing something else with those in the office where they were going and should all those of the spirits of the house right. So at one eight, and if you come back in without them, he was just wondering kind of what that meant and what he was doing so one day he just kind of followed and watched interest. Placings will pockets of these little things of rice out around the perimeter of this compound. I

is watching it and from a distance, and you saw the rise start to move and in a moment of like who is, this disparity is, is on the rise, moved along the ground and it it's aunts, his aunts. So what you have to do is putting out rice for the answer. So then you have the thought of a wood, isn't spirits, it's just aunts, and then you realize now, of course, the ants kind of all the spirits right. So this is a house where food is prepared where they have a lot of thought of big events on an ant infestation would be just disastrous for them. So the spirit that the offering to the to the house is a kind of a dialogue with the answers can, if we're going to put this rice out, can you just if you just surprise. If we do this every day, would you leave us alone and and then that's it like it's it's kind of that, it's quite simple dialogue, and I sort of this lovely kind of embodied relationship with with nature that, of course, we was so far from

yeah so interesting. We do tend to pack a lot of ideas into the supernatural, even like the unconscious and depth psychology, and so much I'm a big fan but we can take this the unknown stuff and shove it into these kind of bottomless pits Actually, interestingly, if you trace it back, it seems like it. Just wasn't like that. It was this very which doesn't depend on what they're doing is for a particular shamans of infants of a shaman is concentrating on psychedelic drugs there and I Oscar Church and they're, giving people dimethyl tryptamine like this is the the the they are dealing with the supernatural. That's a very bizarre, are an intense transformative experience, they're putting people through and there's different different that term. Shaman it really a kind of was it's very rare, rare rare to be discussed up until about maybe twenty plus years ago and it seems like there's, been some sort of a psychedelic revolution over the

last couple of decades, and it's almost become a little bit too popular here where a bunch of people are profiting from it or they're opportunists, and there labeling themselves as shaman. I think that that they use in Peru the calm plastic, shaman and they're. So bring up shop and putting together this Iowa brew and having all these Americans come in flying and Europeans are looking for of the internal AIR quote spiritual experience, and these are not necessarily. Sure shaman in the greatest sense of the word. It's a different. This is what we think, we think of shaman. Today we think someone who conducts a psychedelic ritual, exactly which I know very little of the ninety. I have only had any experience, so I'm excited if I put in a real calf, real coffee, but the decaf on how come Miley tried something nothing psilocybe nothing. No, I never even like smoked a cigarette or anything on it, real magicians thing it's kind of like. Penn. It's like that too yeah, it's very common of a. I think. So can you neurotic control?

nothing! Yet you ring that kind of period where, if you you're going to be doing it then and then, and then that kind of time passes and it just ends up being something that gets missed. Like a lot of blood magicians, don't drink, don't smoke is going to Penn had the strangest response. When I asked him about that, He said I I think we figured out everything we can from those things already was like, but you have it yeah you haven't. Usually you we've learned, I think we can learn from the psychedelic trips was with his perception. Want me. I don't know if he's amended that since then this is over a decade ago. We had this conversation, but that thought processes fastening. To me as a human you talking about like this transformative experience that you've put through people through with these shows set in setting them up these. They think the world is different and changed, and then they change Because of that, I think what we're missing is our is our is that it sticks it's transcendence, that's important. You know

religions originally gave people that there was a time in history where where religion was being born and it was giving people a phenomenological imported experience of the transcendent. Whatever that living right and in time zone and then that kind of moves out of living memory, and should you kind of have to each recreated recreate as feelings through practices, in other those practices, dot to becoming a rituals and and dog learned by this point you creating a sort of re, creating a belief but the the sort of the that imported. Experiences sort of kind of faded into the background, and then, if you know of hello, I I'm I'm a I'm an atheist, but that I knew I could see that what you've left for thousands of years later is is quite easy to knock down um kind of poke fun off, but actually it's at some level. I think it is not doing a very good job of, but pointing back

two. The original experience, the importance of transcendence. Now you can d spiritualize that doesn't have to be about anything overtly spiritual but like finding something bigger than yourself in life and throwing yourself into that thing is how we find meaning write, a meaning, Trump's happiness or anything else that might be through your kids. I guess this is five people generally sort of, we have kids at a certain point. You know on our ego guesses to step down so that you know that. That's I love you, but we, but we do instead, I guess, is rude: hands the you know the interest in these dodgy Simon's we just put in all the wrong places, money, fame, and so on that you don't supply. They do not supply those feelings trends and, as we think they will be thinking. Rich and glamorous life will lift us often out of a boring everyday lives. But of course you know they don't work, there's something something that that relationship to the mysterious that even even me as an atheist in the rest of it, I kind of a it's important. We have to have stopped somewhere

someone allies that needs to be some kind of space for that it doesn't need to be anything spiritual. It just is a kind of a respectful and an understanding that serving some bigger than yourself, whatever, whatever that is and who, in the house, that is, is a important part of being human. I like that they keep coming back to this. Recognition of your work is being something that's bigger than yourself. You pour yourself into this and, through that x, Vince. You somehow transcend that something comes out of it. You you you, you grow with the creation of this thing in some way and while it's happening you're about as alive as you can write me while I'm happy, if you know my breath, is decent at four in the after I I thought very, very little love I'm visions with his stuff, but it, but it's for that, some of the guys going through the people going through it. I I hope it gives them. You know a profound and transformative

Experience I I for me, I I I get very- I get kind of a bit low if I'm not actively engaged in something creative, so not that that is simple to make you know the painting or whatever these rules. Things like you were referring to the painting in the exact same way something bigger than yourself: yeah yeah, that's projects, something Empire your mind in your spirit and your creative juices yeah, it's that's, I think, that's a really. It's a it's a vital part of your life, making sense of something other people, sadly, that throw themselves off buildings. It's not their unhappy. Is that they've, normally there's no meaning is gone, that that's that's the real the real killer is lack of meaning and we find meaning through, throwing ourselves into something bigger and recognizing that, and you know- Maybe the reason why this sort of work on you know a myth, and so on is is sort of feeling like it's coming back into the back end of the dialogue. Now is because,

because it's something that's something kind of real brackets fictional yeah. You know to hang onto these resume. Importantly, I think they're articulate something that's needs to be recognized and somehow honored within with life. Do you know Tyson furious Nada he's a british. Freeway, boxer who's, the lineal heavyweight champion and he went through severe depression. He won the title from Vladimir Klitschko who had held for many many years and beat him and then felt like he had accomplished his goals and just went into a real bad funk. And a ton of weight, sir drinking every night, carrying on and got suicidal and was thinking about dry. Having his Ferrari into a bridge and and decided that he was going to make another run at the heavyweight championship, and so through all this, russian and suicidal thoughts, and all these different things

turn him around was goal setting the idea that he had something to work towards and something to live. Or and then getting in shape and then forcing himself to be on this path. Try to achieve that goal. And then what happened? It is forty six plays tennis, Ember first, it hasn't happened. You know every match hasn't happened yet, but he's lost more than a hundred and sixty pounds he's slim and he looks fantastic and healthy and he was really fat and really large and very, very depressed, and now he's really happy and no medication. The crazy thing about it is we're always searching for some pill. That's going to fix whatever weird funky past the mind is on, but for him what he found was that goal setting like having something that you're striving towards working towards and this day

who is the what happens after this is exactly the danger, because that's what he said I was. I asked him. I said well what, if you win yeah what, if you win the title, what if you fight Deontay wilder in December first- and you beat him and become the champion- is may will bloom back up to four hundred pounds again get depressed, and I don't say that as I'm worried that he's being honest, because he has been down that road before, but it's fascinating that he achieved real happiness from attempting to work towards these goals and Building towards these goals and having this vision in his mind, I think it's a real thing happened with Christian. That is the kind of exploded, relatively new idea onto the scene couple of one thousand years ago which to bear in mind so prior to Christianity, you kind of had the stoics like for five hundred years. There would be no the hugely popular philosophical school.

And there all about a bear in mind. There also the first directive from the e, so there's a kind of ideas around like non attachment and mindfulness that was sort of different expressed in a much more western rational way, but they kind of reflect some of those ideas were going on in Buddhism at the time so The idea of happiness was very much about your relationship to the current moment. Current your emotional state in the in the moment, I then also stepping back from whole life, and you know you said you could re judge. Anyone is happy until they're on the deathbed and then what is? What is the story? That's that's emerged on what happens with Christianity. Is for the first time there was this. This new message that no, no, shuffle now and your reward will happen in the future.

And it's it's like it's an amazing idea, particularly if you're suffering- and that was you know a time when there was hellenic walls in the note- was a time of great suffering, so an amazingly powerful message, but I like that idea of you can take that sort of spiritual ladder that idea sort of climbing towards yourself. This shimmering golden haze of a reward, heaven whatever it is off in the distance. That's not the corporate ladder, right that idea that that mode his has stayed with us. We now in England. I'm not familiar enough with the school structure here, but in England so you're. Sixteen you're choosing your a levels right, which is what you finish school with today. And decide what you're going to like major in at university. In order to then what job you're going to get at the end of that, what promotion you could get an you're, going to work your way up to unblock what is that moment? What is that point that it's that that you know was so we also fix face it almost.

NG? I know this is in a way it's sort of like well. This is familiar in terms of you know. The importance of mindfulness and so on, but it also ties in with like a fear of death in a death death is, is, is interesting. I'm packing what it's frightening, because you know we're not gonna. Be that what happens in all those things, but it seems to be that is frightening, because all projects will will end the weather it should kids or grandkids that you won't see, grow up or where there's always something that's going to come to an end and the the antidote to that seems to be just reappraising that constant fixation on the entire time on the on the future. So that's why I'm here I'm good. How I mean how amazing he's found that now, but I can't help but think and, as you said from DEN born and then what you know, I can't

I agree more about this idea of working towards something when you're in school that you're you're almost trying to reach an end that never comes mean you're building for something and also the pressure that they put on children to start that off at age, one thousand four hundred and fifteen sixteen, and to pick what you're going to be doing for the rest of your life, and this idea that one day you're going to air quotes make it yeah and they're going to make it? But if you did you'd be like you guys in fear in that situation now, yeah, like this friend of mine, is sort of built up the company and then sold it was depressed and had to go into depression it that that need a thing. Has been driving it that's still there and I get someone to go and it's like you're much better off having something on build at least is taking care of that. So you need. You need something. That's going to be perpetually rewarding per patch, stimulating, stimulating the human mind, needs to engage in puzzles and projects and creative endeavors and all sorts of different

these requirements at the mind has, I believe, that mirror requirements of the body has we think of the body having requirements like you need some daily exercise. You need good food, I think you need some mental exercise, and I think you need knowledge. You need information. You need wisdom, you need that you need inspiration, inspiration like, we're talking about all the different things that you can do to. One as hypnotist or that you can do to someone when you're putting together these shows and changing their perspective on things. Through these transformative events, that's in in a lot of ways it's a type of fuel for the mind and inspiration is a type of fuel for the money. Great book is fuel for the mind. You know even sometimes people this fast food culture that we live and we like it in a little tiny, meme, a little ins,

racional meme on Someones instagram page. So I like that. I like that it makes me feel good. It's a gives you, little bit of a some nutrition. For your mind, but at the same time is it's squaring that with how that life is, it's actually really ambiguous and complex, and that's that to me is the that's the big thing to become, I think more conscious of which is probably the best. We can really aim for us to pick. More conscious of the of the things that beset us, because the stuff wrong, conscious of is the stuff that owns this yeah right, so yeah in the stuff. You were unwilling to acknowledge yeah, that's the stuff that comes back and bites his shoes. Are you yeah in the background constantly? Yes, absolutely that evening, Younes model of Psycho Psycho analysis. I love it as he talks about the gold, so he was very engine. Talk about like that that the

the greek model of the gods. They didn't necessarily like worship the gods and believe that they were like real divinity's in the way that we might talk about God now, but what they were doing was honoring these different sort of light clusters of energy, like like you, the God of like a Ross like so that Steve, you only EROS, because it's important to honor the sort of the erotic edge and if you don't, if you don't own a That is going to come back and get you so the homophobic televangelist that gets you know caught in bed with some guy and it's a massive scale. It will come back and buy. If you just want to bury something in it, it will come back and bite you in a like that, but it it it it. It just means that you know life is ambivalent and complex in them. I think the best we can do is is try and be conscious of that, not because the to reducing things too easy packages, but at the same time, how else do you navigate forward without, without reducing things, to an easy story?

the only way you can make sense and move forward is to is to have an easy story. So it's that's like a whole lifetimes, preoccupation designing that's out right yeah. It is all messy yeah. We do love to several things down to a nice tasty little easily digestible package, but the reality is when you open a package served if every package is intensely complex, like every single situation. Has all these different interacting factors that led to that situation taking place? If you take them all into consideration and really dwell on it like just get paralysis by analysis exactly, but you can take it to the board that you can't move yeah exactly exactly, but consciousness. Is awareness is probably the most vegan

again for lease in our own lives card, you can only you can only sort your own lifeout. Currently they probably also plays into hypnotic suggestibility and my own work in terms of suggest ability, because we are we're looking for direction, which is essentially that the simple message that easy message was so if we just kind of kind of wired to grab hold of that and absorb it yeah that's kind of what it's like a director of somebody giving you something. You know you can hang onto and you're just kind of confused, that's sort of. Essentially I guess what what suggest ability is your essentially confused and looking for an answer, and at that moment someone is giving you the answer. In the right way, but correct me if I'm wrong, there's no clear scientific understanding of what hypnosis is it's not like, there's like

clearly show like this is what's happening and that's how it works, and this is why it works. There is my eyes, I do think, there's an easy answer to that. But there is, like a said, forget the hypnotist and the performers. There is a hole, a big body of flight of clinical work investigating it, because it's clearly a thing yet suggestibility is part of the human experience, but as to what it is. Well, that's kind of the days yeah one of the question, because you called ever quite climb inside a person's head in the I am one of the show's I did. I did in a sense, a hand who yes as needed, but we can do so. He said he was in a hypnotized by the CIA. So It was like that's his story right there holy sets out how that happened. So we took that so, let's, let's do it. Let's set up a an assassination, see whether or not Closable! I mean you, take someones highly suggest possible. Do you believe? So we did it, we did it. We got a guy

at the show starts with a big audience of people that are up for taking part. I find the most successful person in the audience and by the end of it he finds himself in a a packed theater. No it doesn't. I was being filmed he's got what he thinks is a real gun, which he thinks is a thing that is going to carry with. And for bit of filming is going to do later, but has a real gun on him, and we set off this little triggers in the same way. So has a hand said happened to him right. So there's a girl with the polka dot dress, there's a sound that here's which we had as someone's ringtone next to him that little triggers that they had apparently implanted I would you do it with that guy? He has no idea, this is being filmed, doesn't know, it's part of the show is in a packed theater. We've got Stephen fry on stage right, he's he's the guy. That's gonna, get assassinated, so he's on is wearing squibs everything. He knows that he may get assassinated at some point. During the show, will the guy do it? He does

right. He stands up and does he finds what he's a real gun? Where was it we think of expecting pandemonium from the audience and there's that we had normalcy bias, the kicks a refund just sat? thinking is this part of the show we had all these crowd control people like nothing happened, but he did it like you know he He shoots him, but I was I mentioned that, because at the beginning of it we're doing this, this, the guy and you know the people in the room and sort of looking at what is What is going on with it Moses? So we have this a nice path and I hypnotize him and told him under hypnosis he'd be at a comfortably get in the ice bath and he wouldn't feel the temperature and I had no idea if he would 'cause that's a real test like if he's just sort of playing along at some level, you're not going to you're not going to get in an ice bath like that, even if it it is this some kind of physiological state. You can tap into to make that possible that some people with training can do as a first

time just step in and do it is going to be, is not going to be able to do that, and I have these two clinical hitters with me. They actually might made a bet on whether or not you do it. They thought he wouldn't do it. I had no idea and he did do it and it really kind of so the three main he was come to be lying in the size. Bossing see the temperature around him kind of linked up to a thumb across. I think we have to put him out if he was at a certain temperature of of the vehicle to whatever it was fifty whatever. That means we have to take him out, I'm yeah that was that was extrasolar. Why, I think of it in very behavioral terms, I don't think of it any kind of special we had stayed there isn't within. You know what was what was going on with that guy. Will it's just it's a physiological possibility that we can do that, because somebody can do it through lots of training somebody just kind of with this guy cut to the chase, and he was able to just do it. The I don't know what the next

that was put in. I don't know what about the the ethical complications that are involved in having a guide literally perform murder, and he doesn't, well he's not answering their calls? 'cause it's an actor. He doesn't. He doesn't know that he's not performing murder, he thinks he's a murderer and then you put it on television yeah. If you have a murderer, yeah he's murder, I mean there's a good case to show where he is being like. Computer magician is being condition, but that's terrifying, that a this is possible and that be to this person that is never experienced. Anything like that before finds out that it's possible for him and that He actually the squeezes the trigger and watched Stephen fry fall to the ground. Squibs go off and he thinks he's a murder and look if you follow the logic that the F b- I is you, 'cause. The FBI is used similar logic to talk some pretty

mentally challenged people into detonating, fake bombs that were purchased from the FBI and those people are in jail for life, and this is a thing that happened in Dallas. There was a young man who was very suggestible and he had some serious psychological problems probably, and he was a radical and he wanted to become some sort of a terrorist weather was Al Qaeda or ISIS or whatever an the FBI infiltrated. This guy is life and set him up and got him or whatever organization was with the CIA or FBI date or date organize some sort of an artificial bomb. They got this bomb him had him, set up the bomb and then gave him this. You know ability to detonate it. He goes to detonate it, and then they arrest him. So there was no bomb. The bomb didn't exist

they talked him into doing it and they genuinely interested in many genuinely genuine jail for life. They talked him into doing it. They provided him with the bomb bomb didn't exist. It wasn't a real bomb. It was going to kill anybody and they took this person and essentially did a version of what you did, but it wasn't funny it was. It wasn't for a television show, but through the same intent through this guys, different intent, hopefully welcome my for him. The intent was to kill and the intel to kill Stephen fry or the intent to kill whatever innocent people was going going to get with this bomb. Essentially they were both Oct into doing this, no real evidence, this guy would ever done it without the FBI or Ci A or whoever. The else was that did that yeah, but if, if, if that it in- with them, stepping in and going okay we're going.

I'll, be here. This is an experiment. Yes, you've been conditioned to do this. We wanted to see, if you would, you have done it and now he's a very careful and delicate d, anything to make sure you're. Okay, that would be a different story and somehow the ends with that it would be like a maybe fascinating invaluable thing to do. If, if the guy fine at the end of it and happy with it, and it wasn't in jail, Jesus yeah, so that's kind of more than words that were in here, and you know this is no I'm not making a judgment on what you're doing. I think what you're doing is awesome, but I mean I think it's I think what they did is kinda fuckedup and not just fuckedup, but crazy that this is uh this waste of resources I mean, maybe I'm incorrect. Maybe this person was on that path anyway, and they recognized it and they stepped in and said. Listen. This guy is going to do something and we're going to help him and because we need to get this guy off the it's. So, let's show that he's capable of detonating a bomb and killing a bunch of civilians and will provide him with that. Whatever he needs them again, maybe they did it that way. I don't know I don't really. You know. Obviously it wasn't there when all this was going

but it seems eerily parallel, yeah, well, yeah my my concern is, I guess what makes hopefully, what makes the shows compelling these sorts of questions sort of yeah beyond a controlled thing, with one guy who's fallen, fine, Also it opens the door to the possibility that this has been done in the past manchurian candidate possibility, yeah. Well yeah. I do not so familiar perspective. You must think it's possible right. Well, I uh making the show I sort of fell. Will that work it? It doesn't mean that, and his story is true. Of course it doesn't. It doesn't rhyme reading a sort of have to relate to that a told, but but you did, it was yeah kinda made sort of kind of works. Yeah it worked yeah. Why did you write a book about happiness?

I wrote a book about happiness because the stoics had really resonated with me. I was I like I, I studied law right, I'm supposed to be a lawyer and I graduated and I kind of was living in Bristol this lovely city in England and making my living as a magician 'cause. I was at the hobby that I'd started and I was just kind of thinking what I need to

Some point with this is growing to a job. I don't know, but I I know the my approach. Is it just kind of I want my life my days to feel like this is good everything's in the right place in this is kind of an enjoyable and worthwhile last time in the worthwhile existence, and I never really thought beyond that have never had any kind of ambition. January of of any any sold his wine on hi everybody, I'm not on the whole goal, setting thing vertically so, but the trouble with thinking about that as you grow up and become successful with what you do. Is you sort of like a kid like everyone else is a grown up in your the kitten and if slightly embarrassed, that you don't seem to care enough about the things that I've

else cares about the business. The things in the viewing figures in this on my interest was genuinely. Am I enjoying what I'm doing is it worth while and then I read the stoics, although that's not like the central message, it's a big part of that. What they write about you not not trying to control things around if you control not attaching itself to things that leave you kind of and emotionally kind of vulnerable and just do your relationship with the present moment and so on? And it really resonated so I I read I read a lot and it took me off into other directions and I started writing and I wrote this book on happen. As often it took me three years to write it. While I was on tour for three years, but blocks of blocks of rising not like three solid years. It was a man by the end of I kind of, had grown and changed and felt differently, and I think for

on those about stoicism in it, so immensely valuable resource in terms of if what you want is a sense of feeling centered in the kind of emotional robustness in your life, and you know if you suffer from anxiety, and so it's it's phenomenal. I think they wear it, but it's slightly doesn't deliver. Is the importance of anxiety, it's all about avoiding anxiety, that their image of happiness was a sort of tranquility, avoiding disturbance that actually cause disturbance is really important. Anxieties, born in life, because how do you change? How do you grow other than you know and less some anxiety triggers that you know let you know that something's wrong? Yes, if we just look for security, at the time, and I say this 'cause. I know I'm like this like this. Is my my problem? Is that I'm too, I'm very good at avoiding stress, very good at avoiding anxiety? the danger is only going to grow, I'm just going to just be too comfortable. That's not you know, that's not necessarily a good thing.

Sir, were set by the end of the book. I was, I kind of could feel the edges of stoicism in terms of the importance of anxiety in in a a not just living to come to be, but is it is a and that's not yet they were movers and shakers like their people to change the world. Marcus array listen and greatest philosopher, King relatives of the emperor most powerful man of Devon was probably really

Nothing was at the was the one, the great stone x so they're, not like it's not a recipe for complacency, which can often sound like when you talk about this kind of tranquility and non attachment bought. It is it's it's a it's just, it's a very robust kind of language to talk about being like a rock when the waves are lashing against you and I I prefer the image of the sort of don't even a Martha Nussbaum has a american philosopher writes a lot about these things, but she she talked about being more porous like a rock for the the waves the water can move through, and I think that's a more helpful image. I think that's a that's a good way. I think, of stepping out into life is, if you and have a a sort of a robustness, but at the same time, that kind of an easy porous relationship with what's going on that gives you that easier relationship to fate and fortune. Although things that they used to honor and I was so much more than we do now, because we don't read tragedy. So we don't think in terms of those things. Oldest men have pride

who Briss now that they had lessons about back. Then you know, but I think I think, that's a that's a good. That's a good starting point for life. So I wrote I wrote this book happy. It is. It's actually just become available in the in the US on Amazon, I don't think you find any book shops but because of the like, I do hope, you're doing a Broadway show next year an these Netflix specials and things that you know. So it is now available and ironically the moment I finished writing it. I was out giving talks on happiness feeling really sad and I couldn't work out why it was because this maze three, your protected and did not realize yeah, I know the importance importance of some kind of fast food or something that brings you out of yourself is so important, that's fascinating, and that in the embracing of the anxiety of the difficulty of the task and finding upon its completion that you feel had so oddly oddly say. Well, it's kind of proof of concept there right I mean

What you're saying is true again. This would seem that you keep saying over and over again that putting yourself into something bigger than you something something that you're you're you're attempting to work through and that through this difficult in all the straw, Golden trying to put the something you gain. Some sort of intangible benefit from this. You seem like a some of the six out, those things you say: ma'am, you've, you've always liked the most yourself fully and things that would that. Would yes, I'm a firm believer in the importance of difficult tasks. I think I think, seeking comfort is one of the worst things a person can do in terms of achieving overall happiness. I think, overall, over happiness. A lot of it comes through this amazing sense of under an the unknown, an possibility. These and working twords things with this embracing of having no idea how the what the result is going to be no idea where this

and being genuinely nervous about it. Every step of the way there's normally being having the language for something means that it doesn't come naturally, because if it, if that came in Tallinn, naturally or the things I'm saying if they completely just I'd always been like that you would another language could be entirely unconscious, so you found this is stuff that you yeah, I found and then learn to articulate, but because it does not an easy thing is not a non thing. The maybe life is, is essentially difficult, and, on these lovely happy once we have our wonderful but they're, not the kind of don't the central force of life. Which is that it is, it is difficult and if you want to philosophy like it has to work in those have to Look at this difficult moment doesn't otherwise it's not really. It's not really going to support you. I think it's also. The Too much embrace those difficult moments and how you approach them. You know if you, if you relish them and I understand that there's going to be some genuine benefit from getting through these and whether it's a physical,

sing or a mental thing. With its creative thing, whatever it is, is difficult like just embrace this massive struggle, and and and enjoy this that just the puzzle of it all the the the the the majesty of the unknown and then, when you get do it. On the other end, you get a different level of happiness. You get this powerful earned happy because you grow yeah yeah. Ronan you've moved forward and you don't you, don't you don't you don't cross road on your own, without having to let go of the mother's hand at some point yeah something this is this: is the death and resurrection that's why these myths do have some resonance yeah. Something has to die before something new before something you can grow. You have to something has to be let go of in order to step forward. So if you're going to grow you have to, there has to be anxiety and disturbance, and some kind of some sort of death in the metaphorical, sense and stuff. It doesn't come easily. No, it doesn't come in

but that's also. What's beautiful about it, if it just came easily, I don't think it would be appreciated exactly anyway, we wouldn't be doing it and there's all this resistance to even engage in it. In the first place, it's hard to write the first word of a book right. The first word, sometimes just sitting there or anything you're trying to do but the first step of a ten mile run things are the most difficult thing once you once you're going it's not nearly as hard it's getting going. There's something about overcome. Getting all this anticipation and all the weirdness of it all you know, and then once do it and you realize you can do it it in which is you in all your future attempts. So you know something like you deciding to run a marathon but help you decide to write a book like all these different things are into connected, the poet Rilke, Rainer Maria Rilke talks about him was love. This image of, like some people, live in a big room and some people live in a small room and some people just like just pace up and down by the window, and I kind of wrote that thought

although I do a lot with my life, but I think instinctively, I'm the guy, that's just sort of pacing up and down by the window instinctively. How so but I'm I'm I'm little shy and I kind of I'm very good at avoiding- I just think you're smart avoid. No, but this is shy, is like a lot of it is like look. The interaction between human beings is so who knows what the fox going? yeah. I mean you, don't know how people are going to perceive you there's potential bad feelings that could come with. That is there's. Also so weird social anxiety and social cues that you have to read and the complications of those make sure you get it right, don't want to get it right. I don't want to be too rude, don't be too forward, don't want to be too much british. I order that is source ramped up it's, I think it's the case with everybody. I mean the the reason for shyness is there's a terrible feeling when you're rejected you know the. Meeting someone who doesn't enjoy the way you presented yourself? Isn't isn't

also feeling that will haunt you for hours, if not days, till three hundred in the morning I mean I've had interactions with people and then I'll two weeks later I'll be putting gas in my car just go yeah? What did I say? Why did I say it like that? Who knows like that's All of that is there's a reason why people have some sort of a weird anxiety about interactions and is also the stuff that, which is why that the the difficulty is so worth embracing, because if you can, if you can, if you can embrace it, that's where there is a kind of only sublime space, because, that's you know, that's the real stuff of life and then yeah, that's the stuff that actually binds everyone together and that the the the happy moments well, the the budget behalf because you you know which is great and the wonderful but He might just need just haven't, got all goalie information at that point right. That's kind of what's going on some of those when we, when we

embroiled in the difficult, I think, that's when the most human and it doesn't necessarily make it any easier by its nature, but they there's a real value to that there is a level of growth in a kind of sort of just to, of via voice somewhere. In the background that that these or is just a a note of this is this- is this is what binds everyone together and I think, the as you said, yeah, it's it's a better type of but it doesn't. It doesn't come easy, but I think life is about growing up is about writing. Ambiguity is not more than more than anything when were infants. Scream and someone comes and gives us the thing that makes us vs good and yeah. It was a british child, psychologist called Donald Winnicott, who sort of kind of appeared after Freud and there's a lot of there's a lot of,

people felt said, kills in terrible loss to Floyd middle of damaging the kids, and he had this great message of like you've. Actually, what the mother, all the the principle caregiver needs to be is good enough, what yet you need to do is to gently let down her infant right, because if you I, if you, if you just grow up thinking that every time you scream someone's going to give you what you want, if you're making a fuss you just get what you want, that's not a very healthy way of growing up into adult life, all becoming a leader, so instead, what the what your, what your mother can give a needs to do is to is to let you down is that you need to disillusion. You need to learn size of screaming. I won't get those things and that that's okay, and that into so likewise, Xena in, like living with disillusionment, is like. That's that's! That's fine! That's how it is. If we don't have that, if we live out this sort of fantasy that

We are UT, they were owed. Something should one a low thought that the secret that I did it in the US is arranging itself around. All banal. Looking wishes old and it's always like exercises and all yeah yeah yeah, and they go to the fact that she said as so. This goes back to Plato, I mean they couldn't have been any any further from the idea of you know wanting all these. Material gains it's fascinating how this subject repeats itself in some sort of a strange intermittent cycle where people start talking about manifesting thing, yeah yeah. I've heard a lot in Lai, don't know if that's a thing well recently, it seems to be working its way back around again, where it was. It was outside

conversation for quite a long time, but now it seems to be coming back again what people are always looking for reasons why certain people are successful in and that's a big one. The big one is this, so this idea that people can manifest things their mind yeah and did you know when it comes from again discussing this with people who've become successful and they're? Looking for a reason as to why they're successful it is very hard to a credit lock, Showmance Whitney is in their success. Well, it's an element of Ellis Alliance story that you double secret thing, yeah and element. The power of positive thinking is an element all these things are elements but they're, all combined with circumstance, lock, genetics cultural interactions, the way human beings just the time of the year. You were born

you know I mean there's so many different factors, there's so many things that can lead to you I mean, and also where you're born mean you don't Where are you? Where are you living? I mean all these things. I have a huge factor in your success: try being a entrepreneur in Ethiopia, I mean it's a different experience than being. You know a a tech startup guy in San Francisco. Clearly one of 'em has an advantage, and there's a lot of those things that play into each other and to say. Well, you know the guy in Ethiopia. He just wasn't thinking about it. The right way. Didn't he didn't. Didn't make a wish board and put his picture, is house was Ferrari, front of it or whatever the is trying to it's it's an end. It is it it's the infants urge it's now screw aiming into. The universe will provide there's something other, that the universe doesn't give a that should be a starting point of like living, but the universal cat. What's active enhancer I mean, though the universe in and of itself is a perspective enhancements, yeah

if you can go somewhere in the country where there's no light pollution and see the milky way. You just you get this ok, ok. This is a lot bigger than I'm thinking. So I think it's one of the real problems We have with our society with with electrical lights. That sort of lined out the stars. Stop saying we don't get humbled. Is that the book spell of the sensuous. This guy David Abrams, without living in Rural EAST Asia, he describe the very beginning. This amazing image was living in this hot and it was his he wakes up in the middle of the night is any just kind of I guess been there for an hour to two eyes in his paddy field, which is become drenched with water with rain. He steps out, and you have this incredible- strong filled, clear sky, which is reflected, but was pitch black apart from that right, so star filled sky, it's reflected perfect, like a

like a mirror in this drenched. Enormous padded field, that is in there's fireflies everywhere in between flying around right, there's little little specks of light had no sense of like what was up what was down, which had totally disoriented this feeling of just falling through space. It's a great open, The book yeah, we don't get a lot of that. No, we we missed that part, the galactic part. We really do it. So unfortunate whenever I'm out in the country- and I look up- I see it- I go. Oh, I was in Utah a couple of months ago, and it was we're way in the mountains, it was. There was no light. Just nothing and you look up which is filled stars in every inch of the sky and stars on it. It's just it's it's so hobbling and I think it's such a powerful image for human beings and it's

inspired so much so much pondering throughout human history and so so much philosophy and so much so much of the way people interpret, our position in the universe is based on this image. This undeniable image of the cosmos that it's so magnificent and yet in our. Amazing technological society, id that we've created. We have a side effect. That side effect is light pollution that light pollution shut off, one of the most magnificent inspirations that's available in the natural world it's available to us every night. Instead, we block it out with fuckin', seven hundred and eleven lights and the more we lose touch with that not just not just that, but the widest sense of that. The mystery

This is written the represented by only I don't know everything I don't know where they got. You know, then. Sadly, what we have. We have people like me who have magicians, doing tricks and psychic mediums returning to connect with the debt. That's like old, alt Audrey answer to say that providing a sense of mystery, digits hustlers, As I sat in a studio audience once and watching a psychic, it was one of those tv filmed ones where there's where there's an audience. I was just like so before filming starts, he came out and he said his anybody here. That's hoping you know hoping that someone's going to come through and all these hands go up and he just asked people. So would you who you hoping will come through? Ok, what do they look like? Is there anything? I'll, let you know if they come through. Is there anything I can ask any bit of information. They could give me that nobody could possibly know that will prove to its them. Yes, yes, he he drowned and he was wearing a red sweater. Ok, but when I let you know if he comes through and then they start filming- and he just says

those things to them, and I think the reason why that stuff is is like people do believe it is that the lies so ugly that it's so much easier to believe. Something amazing must be on that than the rest is he? Is it just that ugly empathetic ally as such a such and such a horrible experience? So many of them I mean they have a television show. Well, there was a medium television show or this woman was connecting people with their dead lives and it was so fake. This is the things were shity, it was so poorly thought out. It wasn't just a lie: was a a design actually more on it. Yeah, that's a shame its the there was I and in one of my shows I had I got like fifty people up on stage had like a like an audience things set up on stage and I'm with doing mediumship with them. I'm providing like like very accurate information at the same time saying I am you know, I'm

line, drive telling the she's not telling me anything, I'm making this up, you understand and then, after the So it's going to it's it's an interesting kind of lying right, place right and then off to his. If I think was the first night doing shows, I went out the stage door and I was talking to people that and there was a girl- that's in the show- and she said well, you uh. I wonder if you could put me in touch with my dead grandmother- and I said, oh god, well, I hope you understand from what I've just done, that I don't I'm not really doing it. That's kind of the point should And I understand, I know you can't redo it, but would you put me into Jesus has an amazing capacity for just this kind of dissonance. Well, that's how cults work right! Yeah, I mean that's the only way they can work once you get a hold of the manuscript and your you re whatever. It was, whether it's Mormonism and Joseph Campbell, the fourteen year old boy who found golden tablets that contain the loss work of Jesus yeah only he could read with this MAGIC Sears stone. If you, if you're you know, if you

have any critical thinking left in you at all. At that point, you just you put the book down YO what the fuck them I doing with my life, but people don't want that they want want the universe is so open, ended and the possibility of your, existence expiring at any moment, and you just vanish. Into nothingness in this consciousness, which is literally stopping the lights go black and that's it, it's so terrifying to us that we would prefer. Some nonsensical unrealistic version of something but rigid, so we know how to follow it and a bunch of other people follow it as well, and we have this community

the follow it, we gain comfort in that and some very, very strange way. This am let's sort of an opinion on unexpected comfort that comes with the sort of the meaninglessness of it, much of any kind of recently kind of found that the rule of the people in your life, the people that my people that you work with and see a lot of the that I can no you end up being like a this constant source of you know, niggling irritation. I we've I'm, you know we have people like that. All people that we kind of admire, maybe a bit intimidated by all around it's like they're, just going to be the peak they were gonna, they're gonna, be the people that just kind of populated your life one and it will amount to no more than that, but they'll be they'll, be the people that, with their and and it's it's hard to articulate, but it's I find that, like a It's a lot easier to kind of love. It's a lot easier to love when you realize it isn't the end of the day. It's all yeah,

none of that. That's going to know, that's gonna matter, the the that's annoying you everyday is that's going to be. That was that guy. That was with you all your life kind of annoying but that was like one of those one of these people in the population. I find it a very, very powerful kind of just just reset in terms of sort of attitudes towards people that the engender any kind of nervousness irritation in timid any of those things. It's like a yeah. These are just these are my sounds. You know, but these are these, are these are my fellow people? These will be the people that these are the characters that people that populated my life and then that's It's kind of a nice thing, so that makes sense yeah yeah it does so embracing that there is no great grandma meaning to it all this sort.

Let's intimidation. Doesn't it doesn't matter? It doesn't matter that rush that which is going through their own as well. I'm I'm just a character in their lives, but that's kind of nice that, like all this guy was this post was with me every day or even that famous person that. Maybe I never even met but like how weird that that was just like a force within my life at that person represented something These are these are so it's just a lot easier to sort of go out in the world with love which is what we need to try and do with that thought I think, don't listen! That's a great attitude, because anytime any You can have less annoyance. You know by person who's just whether they're ignorant or

a confused or agitated or what whatever's causing them to behave in a way, that's uncomfortable for you any time you can just sort of just by Keto that just sort of like relax and let it roll off you and just keep moving and go out. What do you do, and I mean that's one less thing you have to wrestle with in your psyche and that's just that's just a recipe for a motional success period. Yeah! Well, this this story cut. If you could only control your thoughts and your actions, and helpful. Isn't it everything else, what other people do, what they think everything else out comes a note under your not on the control, so you can decide that this thing's a fine and that such a what we're really let that idea drop into the soul that but what? If it's fine? If mom my partner handles stress, badly and drive, and what is that stay with us? That's fine! Then I was that I was in and to be a better partner,

maybe be more helpful if I'm not internalizing it making it all about me and you know making it making it worse and again, it sounds like a recipe for complacency by like the tennis analogy like like so success all with matters of social injustice, where you think well, I and I need to. I need to go out and change that and the world is then it's like a game of tennis. If you go into a game of tennis thinking, I must win, then what I'm? What is when you start to lose? You become anxious you done my is when you try to control something you call on reserve, you go into that same game thinking I will place the very best of my ability is

That's that's on the line of your thoughts and your actions that something under your control and you'll play better you'll, get better results. That's that's a that's a become a big thing for me and I've. When I get stressed about things, I find that something is really niggling. Why I'm bothering me that full to flight an honest folks, it's always fun. It's always something outside of the thoughts and actions only something else, and it's fine. It's no me to someone else is saying that it's just the way, the manifesting. That is annoying me about that. So it's fine. It is fine. It feels like it when I was a kid

nice to be a wake up on a Saturday morning and think out to go to school and then realize I didn't I kind of relief, yeah Phil as an adult. So much with that kind of it's it's fun. Well, I don't think it's a complacency thing you mean the the idea. Is that your your you fear that this attitude would lead to complacency. I think it just leads to you picking your battles taking a battles exactly yeah, which is important. Your your ural, wisely. Allocating resources right in not in concentrating on some should the you're not gonna, control anyway, yeah, you know grabbing some guy, you don't even know, listen man, you got it straight. You lied about your annoying and this is why, and I think, that's not going to list new it's it's it's an effective way need to interact with people you're way better. Good news, for you know: yeah, just keep it open, so myself out, yeah, sort myself out is your reaction to him is the only thing you could really control. Yes, certainly can't control him yeah

You can control your reaction, him and there's some there's a certain amount of pride and just being able to like huh whatever and just to person or thing or person's behavior that you might have been serious about just a few years ago, you or or deeply irrate aided by where it would cling with for days you be in your car thinking about it like the but the ability to just let that go Forty even enjoy it even even enjoy it. It's good stuff. I could voice which is come back now. It's such a! I think you see BT's seem to be the way that stirs as he, Btcbt, not cock, and bull the the other one cognitive, behavioral therapy they made for all. I know my place and both disciplines yeah the column. Behavior therapy is the kind of short form therapy.

That is essentially getting into the process of how a I can not anxiety. Patton might happen and kind of throw a spanner in the works and make people by being more more aware of all the possibilities of behavior kind of on doing it like that, as opposed to the longer form of therapy, if getting into the deeper Donald with the cell phone- and you know, tracing those things back to where they come from and sold. It is the the founder of one of the founders of cbt, This was was explicitly taking it from the stoics is a very interesting how that how that is coming back on a one, a one to what it is, what it is in our culture this now made his extension seems very very popular now on those that that that sort of awareness version is a reaction against I gained psychoanalysis. I suppose it's a yearning for shorter, quicker on Suse. Which maybe taps into this difficulty in tolerating ambivalence and complexity baby.

Uh. I think it's actually surprisingly effective therapy for many things, but it's just interesting how it's coming this stoic ideas? Cultural cycles of sort of rediscovering things yeah, and I think I think that happens with, I think it happens with yoga. I think it happens with meditation they become in vogue and then they sort of die out for awhile when a new creation, sort of forgets it or doesn't learn, and then someone catches onto it, one thousand and fifteen years later, and then it became very popular and then it's in articles in magazines, and then people start talking about it. Then yeah it's weird things with knowledge yeah. You know I mean this is our version of oral history, which is past things on and and this sort of a weird way were you know we we forget that these are tools, and then people start discussing their benefits and discussing the the the positive results have had with the then it's

builds up. It's a bit like the atheist argument thing I was saying I as as an atheist, but we we hung up on the knocking down. The things that I actually just sign, post back to something that is important is vital, but it's very difficult to articulate yeah. We need you said the gold is dead. He meant, the the thieves sort of the on the on the on noble goal is now dead, because we would now we've established this thing that we call God, which is just like the big guy and that we know we've we've put like a box around and gone. Is that and in doing so, we've come I have lost that touch with that numinous unknowable thing which, irrespective of what you believe at like a religious belief which it did it represents something that knowable four

is that let even as a you know, a hardheaded rationalist is sort of like there's uh yeah you wanna make you want to honor that thing, because we If we need we need to know It is a step outside of ourselves, yeah honor. That thing is a great way to put it. We have a really strong desire for some sort of a practice of humility and and and and true all, and I would love to be. I would I will if you could go back in time and interact with people where Everyone believed in Thorne, Zeus and Odin, who probably be absolutely fascinating, to watch how these people, live their lives with his undying faith in these deities that were in control

full of all the matters of the unit with no scientific knowledge must be amazing, and when you think about the fact that that was, I mean what how many thousands of years of human history people engaged with the Converse like that there's other thing is only two three hundred years ago was only with the enlightenment that we dispensed with the humor rule's theory of of of of medicine. You know we believed it was you know of the fire and flame and all those that those those kind of ethereal substances in the body. That's like that's then it was only at that point that medicine became something that was could actually start to fight against death ward off death, to which means testing of became the enemy and not swear. We start to lose that kind of respectful only knows death is some sort of companion, rather than just some sort of strange. But let's that some

if it's only a couple of hundred years ago, so it laying on the beach. You know found of the indictment of course and as a magician of course, you're very quickly develop a you know. A lot of well certainly do that that skeptical attitude that yeah magicians have had forever and kind of debunking and and so on, that was that goes hand in hand. The banking, the you know, the charlatans and all world of sort of spiritual nonsense spot, but that's that's sort of a ship. The thing. That's a different, that's a different thing and again I only again any articulated a tool because it doesn't doesn't come. Naturally, you know and on a it's, we we find things that with a sort of compelling because they don't come naturally do they saw you know I I I'm. I don't quite know what that means may but the I think if I, if I knew too easily what it meant to me, it might have lost something in the in the mix. You know, I think that I think the relationship to.

Allowing your life to to to grow and to transform into whatever that means has to be surely drive at some level, otherwise, with just pacing up and down by that window yeah. Otherwise, what are we doing? What are we doing I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I need lunch. Well, I have to go see if my house had burned to the ground. Yes, I do hope it hasn't learned a great help. So two things marshalls here, yeah Marshalls here we're all good my family, is in a hotel, but thank you thank you, so define discussion, I think we really enjoyed it. Thank you. So so much for animal sacrifice is available right now as well. I don't know if it's as so there's three things on it. There's a sacrifice which is this brand new one is the push which is the one we were talking about with the the compliance experiment and there's also the

stage show miracle, which was the faith healing thing I was talking about as well and then there's a whole twenty years of stuff on Youtube. I don't know if you can even access it in this country, but I bet we can. I bet you can. Thank you very brownlees, gentlemen. Thank you for tuning into the podcast and thank you to our sponsors. Thank you to simply safe. Go get yourself a fan. Tastic Simplisafe service for twenty four seven professional monitoring from simply safe. It only cost you fourteen thousand and ninety nine a month, it's fucking beautiful and it's an outstanding service pc, Mag, Cnet Wirecutter, all named at their top choice for home security, and you could check it out at Simplisafe, dot com, Slash Rogan, go to that specific website. It'll tell them that we sent you and you will get a great system that simplysafe dot com, Slash Rogan, to get simply saved today, sim

e l, I s a f e dot com, slash road and last, but not lease. We are brought to you by twenty three and may find out what the fuck happened in your ancestry twenty three and me is the way to go. It's beautiful. It's comprehensive and now through Thanksgiving twenty see. Now what can I say that now through Thanksgiving? 23andme ancestry, service kits are only forty, nine dollars per kit when you buy two or more kits that he's a fifty percent savings off the regular kit price of ninety nine ours- is a holiday so order your twenty three in me, ancestry service, kid at twenty three and me dot: com, Slash, Rogan, that's the number twenty three end of me: dot com, slash, rogue! Okay! who made it through damn we got a lot of podcast this week right. Well, Darren Brown was

kind of a last minute addition- and I really wanted to get him in and boy, but I could say that about Shane IRAN was a last minute one two, we want to get him into so a lot of and Dale Earnhardt Junior was awesome. What a cool sincere guy just really enjoyed talking to him, really enjoy talking to Michael Mouse to us, the fun week, Christina Pacific. He was aware s tells probably one of my favorite once a week that was Tuesday listen loved, it had a great week and it's not over we're going to do. If I can pay me tomorrow, that is, if the fires don't get worse, it's apparently it is entirely possible that they could get worse. It's so fuck crazy here, people that are from out of town if you're, not to the LA fire thing.

Every now and again in California particular Watch. Us Colorado gets these in Montana's Adam, but we get him. You know in a in urban area it's very strange that it happens in such an urban place boat once a year, so we get these giant fire storms and the one that's hit us right now is probably the worst one. I've ever seen I mean it's enormous: they've evacuated the entire city of Malibu, David evacuated, just thousand oaks West, lake. All these areas, which are off the one hundred and one freeway which are out near us with a studio, is an it's fuckin' bananas. The sky is just thick with smoke and these enormous clouds in the distance it just it looks it looks fake

really does uh. We hope everybody is ok. You know, I mean it's, it's awful that people lose their houses, but at the end of the day you realize that what really counts is your health and your family and your friends and your loved ones and dumb. I just hope, everybody's ok, that's my message gets Dave, don't don't try to be risky and try to wait it out. I mean I saw people using hoses to try to host their house down. Just man just get the fuck out of there and hope your insurance holds up and save your life. Alright, much love to you all and hopefully will see you tomorrow. If not, we will definitely see you on Monday, an less fuckin' into the,

What happens when should get crazier? My boy Tom Segura will be here with Sean Anders on Monday, and that should be fun also with Monday's doubleheader Ross egely. I want to say his name wrong. That's the guy that swam, the entire disk of the Uk Right when Tom and Bert and ARI, and I were starting to feel good about ourselves. We found out this fucking guy this guy swam twelve. Hours a day for six months. What not a psycho? He must be he'll, be here on Monday. That's it! Alright will talk to you soon, much love to you all bye bye.