Tim Pool is an independent journalist. His work can currently be found at http://timcast.com and on his YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCG749Dj4V2fKa143f8sE60Q
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the show that seems to be the way I'm doing it from now on. I don't know why it sounds like I'm doing. A Disney thing. Welcome come to the show this episode, the podcast is brought by skill share skills, there's a very exciting online learning community for creators, with more than twenty five thousand classes in design business and more, you can discover countless ways to fuel your curiosity created, vitti and career. You can take classes in a whole bunch of different shit. Folks, look. I can pull these up here. Animation, film production, fine, art, graphic design, illustration, music, production, photography, writing, accounting, business analytics, learn, learn, learn lease and gentlemen. That's what I'm getting out of this. It's just. I think it's very important to continue to to challenge your mind and I think learning new things is it's critical for me personally, I am kind
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finally drank too much coffee before we get here. So if you appear like cracked out, I swear to God, I'm not in pills but going to hear it, but so we had a nice conversation on the phone about d, platforming and social media, and what what it was very obvious to me in talking to you was it your way more schools on this than I am so that's why I want to have this conversation with you around is part of what was like. I've re listened to my podcast with Jack, and you had a good criticism. I agree with a lot of what he said. First of all, I agree that was kind of boring yeah, and it was, I think in many, for many reasons was my fault, our. I don't think I prepared enough for it and I also don't think I understood the magnitude of how other people felt a d platforming, on twitter and in all social media Youtube and all these different things, and why the ramifications are and how how much this means to people to have
very clear and obvious obvious free speech outside of very agree just examples of like threats and doc, sing and pray like that, which I think we can all agree right. I think this problem might be one of the like one of the worst problems we're facing right now. Politically, yes, you know, the twitter is public. Discourse is happening, it's where journalists are, and this is a problem, sourcing, a lot of their stories. Yes, if you have somebody who is completely removed from public discourse that that's exile, you know I can imagine why some people kind of lose their minds, and that happens- and I think going into the conversation with him. Well, that's what I wanted it to be. That's why I don't really interview people any kind of conversation with them. Occasionally we have disagreements and we you know, we talk about things and you know, but it's not. I don't have like a mandate, my own the only thing I wanted to get out of the conversations I wanted to find out what it was like to start that
organization and have no idea when you doing it that it was going to be essentially like one of the most important distribution written avenues for information attack, an act body of an act. Give us a buddy of mine asked me if I knew why people smash windows smashed Starbucks, it's not because they think they're going to cause damage it's because they want to strike a symbol down of something they view oppresses them. Jack Dorsey. Is that symbol to a lot of people, and you know to see you know what I was saying earlier is, I think, a lot of people. Look at you like you're, like a real dude. You know, you're, you you're conversations are really you're, not one of these fake news, journalists that people are very critical of that field there by a certain agenda. So when you sit down Jack Dorsey and doesn't go anywhere, people then feel like the last person who is not supposed to let us down. Let us down, you know I mean yeah. No, I look. I felt you twice as much. I felt it and I noticed that I got you know more hate for that, one than probably anything that I've ever done, and
you know I'm not a guy shies away from criticism. I try to figure out what I did wrong and try to regroup and figure out how to approach it again and in Jax defense. You know, I think, he's very open and talking about anything and also he's also very open for self criticism when he was openly discussing what they're doing wrong where they need to be clear where the navy to get better. I don't believe any of it. You know, I don't trust that guy not at all. Um, you know why? Don't you trust him? I mean first of all, there's the obvious thing is running these a bunch of companies. I could be wrong, but I believe he actually left twitter. He wasn't the ceo for a while. They brought him back in or something but it either sounds like. I would check on that. Yeah I you know I try. I try to avoid a certain things that I'm not one to percent sure on, but me too, but I do it all the time anyway right right it J. It says things like he said to you. He said to Congress. I believe he said to Congress uh. We don't ban people based on the content. We ban people based on their conduct,
yeah, okay, you! Yet you literally have a terms of service that band specific content like what do you mean you don't make? It was a content. There's a you know, I'll get into naming some people right. Megan Murphy, for example, is if Megan Murphy. She okay, that woman. That without the whole issue with men, are men right right. So so here is what this is what's important. She was were adding to some. Please explain that so this could be stand alone because we talked about yesterday with SAM Harris, but so I don't know too much about Meghan Murphy, but she's, a feminist she's a what they call a trans, a radical feminist, but I think that that might be offensive says. Let's remember why Jack Dorsey was fired as Twitter CEO, he was fired. Well, let's see what it says. This is an fortune two thousand and eight that was there wasn't even it was her twitter, yeah, yeah, two thousand and eight is Christ. Dorsey's management was so problematic, Twitter's board five. This is an opinion piece fired him in two thousand and eight
bring him a passive chairman role and Silent board seat, two thousand and ten, whose founding swear square. He went rogue okay, so something happened. You know it's funny. Is you called an opinion piece, but do they? I don't know: that's that's where we're at in journalist today. Well when someone said well, it has to be an opinion piece when someone says was so problematic right I mean that's appeal, make sure the real facts are he was fired. You know you could state the specific reason that was stated by the company, and that would be an an opinion piece, but as soon as you flavor it, it's all opinion right. It is yeah that is a cat is an issue right with information, the distribution of information that is flavored by opinion in ideology, all of it all of it. Well, we can talk about that yeah. I want to derail not an online reading, yeah, okay, so making Murphy. Please explain it. She was of a feminist. She said she so she's called a trans. Exclusionary, look stand! This is offensive. You know, I guess calling someone a trans
solution, a radical feminist, I'm assuming wasn't, wasn't offensive. It's just used in a in an offensive way, I suppose, to her offensive again against people like her yeah. So there is interest more feminists. They tend to be Trans, inclusive, meaning that they believe that someone who's born biologically biologically male can compete with those biologically female if they transition, if they take hormones and things like that can compete right like what our left down race, bikes, biking and stuff. That's where I step in yeah, yeah, I've, I've seen some stuff. You talked about the trans, exclusionary group think they shouldn't and they've said things that are considered to be part. I say consider to be offensive. I'm not trying to assert was a fine. By buy it, but there's one recent story where a trans, exclusionary, radical feminist said that the Trans Rights Move, It is a men's rights movement right in the case of Megan Murphy. She responded to someone. She said men aren't women, though that's not harassment.
That was a conversation with somebody else. Well, it's also a fact she was permanently banned. Well, that's crazy! Right! Just saying men aren't women. Okay out of context, just say it right. There men are women who the fucks going you at that. Well, you say: trans people, okay, now you're into gray area. Actually, but the statement men aren't women, I mean well, you have to take it in context right right right, but this is where we start getting into the nitty gritty of, I guess: left wing ideologies, the culture war. If you go on Wikipedia and you up man, it will tell you a man is an adult human male. But if you look up Trans man, it will say a Trans man is amen, and so the Trans Section of Wikipedia is at odds factually with the man section. So that's a there wasn't bring. This up is that when it comes to twitter, then we can clearly see the bias Twitter says you can't miss gender someone and that, presumably that's why Megan Murphy was banned. Okay, that's a left wing idea
right, but that's what she's talking about a specific human? I think she was. I think they were having conversation about somebody. I don't know the full details details, but I gotta say: look right now: people are being banned or suspended for saying, learn to okay, that's they are. What is that about? You explain that to me too, and I saw a few people getting but which we start one at a time. Yeah, yes, would stick with Megan. Well I mean I, I think, we've we've. We've we've reached that the point of Meghan right. She was banned. Having a conversation and saying men aren't women, though that was the quote: men aren't women, though so and they're saying that they would never banned someone for content. They banned them for behavior right. So what? If? What is that behavior that I've no idea right, like listen? If you are using twitter? The way twitter was designed to engage responded to people is that bad conduct it can't be conducted literally can't conduct will not only that aren't you allowed to have opinions that are in fact based in biology. Yes,
he should be, and that I should we go any further before you get called all right, you're, very you're, very left right. I you know I took release a center left center. Look like, oh god, people were saying how many times someone commented. How many times will TIM mention he's a social liberal, laying I'm center left uh? I was a big fan of Bernie. You know Bernie Sanders. He still one of my favorite politicians. People call me a socialist conservatives. Call me left left calls me right. Whatever thes labels are so fucking toxic, it's so confuse zing to people in it and it causes so much so much division between two sides. It might not even differ that much yeah the funny thing about it is. I got my start during Occupy Wall Street and conservatives called me far left because I was reporting on the protests what they were doing. Police brutality right, the arrests. They said this is a far left activist now that I'm I've all
always been critical of the more extreme factions like I've got interviews from seven hundred and sixty seven years ago, where I'm critical of these people. Now all of a sudden they're accusing me of being all right for being critical of extra missing masks. You know starting fires and things like or all right adjacent, that's winning favor yeah boot liquor outrages and will boot liquor bootlegger? That's that's. You know, that's a lot of phrases that people use that mean literally nothing booklet and one of one of my favorites is to keep in the context of Twitter. They say freedom of speech. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences. That literally doesn't anything. It literally means nothing yeah. Well, that's just trying to skirt around freedom of speech. That's what it is. So what ends up happening, but you agree with that, like you should be able to speak your mind, but there's certain consequences of certain things that you say if I throw this bottle at the wall. As a consequence of that, if I recall moved motion, if I drink this water is a consequence of a bath right, so to set it to point out that actions have consequences, not actually addressing any of the
issues. It's just literally saying nothing, but it's it's it's almost it's just like you can predict when someone will say it and it's usually when a specific person is banned, they'll, say freedom of speech for him, a constant all that stuff, they don't say it went to their people. They say you know yeah, but this is true too. In talking about twitter censorship. There are people on the left have been banned unjustly, and this is where it gets truly scarier, in my opinion, you'll have, I could name so many people just see Kelly was banned for no reason. Cj Pearson was bad. I think when you say no reason what now they have no record. That was an accident. They said it was an accident, then for life for band. He was, he was short amount of time, so I could be wrong. I my under thing is Jesse Kelly is a conservative, his account just band and there was a huge stink in the media like what? What what is good and do anything who is judge us. He tells a conservative guy. You know he he he post Starkey tweets. He doesn't harass people anything's a verified, twitter user. So much of stories came up saying what what is this twitter
Satan said it was it was. It was a mistake now. Is it possible they're just dealing with blunt tools and that there was a mistake or, if well, yeah? Absolutely absolutely, but then I'd have to there were the reason why I don't think it was a mistake. Very simply is for one we can see the ideological and to their rules. But then you look at someone like Milo Yiannopoulos, like I'm, not a fan of Milo. I have to make sure that everybody knows that, but just because I'm critical of the actions taken against him, that doesn't mean I support him, but why was he banned because he tweeted it Leslie Jones right in the idea, was that his tweet caused his fans to attacker, which I think is that's a stretch. That's that's. That's just that's just ridiculous didn't say: go getter, he didn't say attack. He was just waiting at her yeah and you know what did he call her ugly? Did you say something like that? He was insulting. I think you called her ugly. He was he was mocking this feminist version of Ghostbusters right, that's what he was doing. He was talking. It was like a critique of the
movie, the guy I had my low on the podcast way. Back in the day I had a month twice. I enjoyed talking to a missile areas, he's very smart he's very witty he's a character is very much a pro for it, but he's also, you know, he's pushing buttons on purpose. Like he's trying to get reactions from people yeah I mean I almost think like he married a black. I just let people know he's not gay, that people know brother is not racists, yes, and I what I I I wouldn't. I would never say some like that when I sit down there, but I almost think it you don't even understand why my low would do that. He's calculated right right yeah, but what lessons did that? I don't think you did. That should be clear, but I mean that's how much of an act a lot of what's going, but if you talk to him off camera he's a very now guy, very reasonable, very polite. I don't I don't trust them, I'm not a I'm, not a big fan. You know he he felt shame to do at the gym,
but it literally is making fun of got out of a guide to General Jim yeah and I actually talked with them about at one point I was like you want to do like you won your skin he's fat, but no, you can you literally shamed him to the point where decide to go to the gym to better himself, you're still making fun of them. So I mean he shame them before they go into the gym, not well. I'm I mean I don't mean literally. I mean like my lows rhetoric of show in people and give them you know saying they're, they're, nasty and stuff, and then it right, but I don't think I listen to him and that's why I went to the gym. No, no, I don't mean literally, you know I just mean like if Milo plays it up like I'm, going to shame people until they don't work out. Why would you but I'll say this? Look, that's fine, Milo can say the nasty things and be the kind of person he is right. He should have been banned from Twitter. That's ridiculous, wow as Verification Badger moved. That was another. It's it's it's plain as day for the verification. One was weird: it's like we're to keep you here, but we're going take away the verification lets people know you're you right. So it opens the door to fraud right
and it opens the door to fake my lowe's and you don't know who's who, because there's no blue check mark that doesn't necessarily make any sense and we get to Julian Assange Jj, who couldn't get verified. What yeah they wouldn't have s o a bunch of fake account, started popping up, wait a minute. That's not verified Wiki. I believe Wikileaks is but, and then I think that's on his account was changed into the defender Sandra Count, but it's not verified. I was I'm, I'm pretty sure why who? What was the reasoning behind not verifying Julian the son? I don't think there was one okay. We do, let's take a little sidebar here yeah. He tell me what's wrong with Julian Assange like what? What is the idea that this guy is some some supervillain, some bad person that did something terrible because he exposed some information like what it? What am I missing bags? I guess it depends on how conspiratorial you want to get to join the signage they they they have labeled him like intelligence agencies. I'm I came. I think that may have been James Clapper said that he is acting as a private and
Telegian's adversary of the US or something to that effect. So, Russia, you mean the joint assigned just acting independently against the? U S so against it right right right and so that the the leaks assigned put out very damaging to the? U S right, I think it's fair to say sure they don't like him. So you know then he ends up getting accused of, I believe, molestation. You know, I think it was secrets. It's pretty complicated. He was having consensual sex with a woman and then no no. No, I don't think so. I think, while they're in the in bed, then the accusation was that he without a condom on he had sex there. Again, I don't think, that's it I'll be honest, been years, but I don't think that's the case. I thought that there is. There is I'll, say this: there are for it, it's been there's you know, but there was reference to a condom breaking and I think what happened was he said it fine or something. But but you know outside of that, you know the guy has been locked up for how long you know.
I think I think it was the. U N said something like it's: a violation of human rights or whatever, and you know we went over. It was like what is it six years if he's been locked up for more than six years, yeah it's crazy and it's because there's an uh um. This is again a little bit out of my wheel house, but I think the US has preparing and a grand jury indictment against them. So but again you know and Chelsea Manning who gave him the information is now free and out of jail. I don't, I think it's presumed that Chelsea did. I thought it was. Maybe it maybe it is so I can show you know it's been years since I've, you know, track a lot of the stuff in crime, but back to the main point back to massage wasn't verified with you. This was I'm pretty sure. Okay, so verification is not just hey. This is TIM Pool. There's is Jamie Vernon, that's that's! The real Jamie, give a blue check mark. It's! We don't like you, so we're going to take away your check mark, even though we know you're the real you. It's like it's a class. Yes yeah! It's an elite class of people, a removal of approval, yeah, there's some people
who, I think, have removed their own verification, badges change, your name in it. It erases, I think, cutie pie did it once and then immediately immediately got it back and I I could buy yeah, but you know white. Why remove someone's verification right? What is it? What is it? Do? Nama? A hundred percent, agree Mint, so ESO another another interesting thing we can start a segway into is why was a lower loomer band? You don't have to be a fan of Laura Loomer. You can you can question our politics. Was she banned before after she jumped she's fence before but she's? You know all say this man like I I I tweeted about it. If about talking about twitter, if you, even if it like her, you gotta admit she knows how to get press yeah. She knows how to generate that Bosnia and she's that really good at it. So but here's the thing she got banned permanently because
she tweeted to. I believe it was you on Omar criticism about Sharia law. She accused, I I I could you know you could put a tree back. I she accused Ellen of promoting Sharia which results in like all these horrific things and the vendor for it. Okay, disagree agree with all you want, but that was her criticizing a politician. You can't have a lawsuit against Donald Trump, claiming you can't. You know Trump can't block somebody, because it's a public forum, but then, when it comes to a Congress person just permanently banned, someone for saying something critical of their ideology- and I think what's really critical here- is that there has to be some sort of clarification for what policies were violated and how they were violated, that that seems to be especially for public figures, because
it's one thing if we don't know a person in the background. But when you know a person when this a Laura Loomer a mile, you not bliss and it's a public case and then the you you get this feeling that the say. No, because we decide- and this is what well Joe don't worry, because, no matter what twitter does they're going to be defended by the new work, digital journalist elites, who will misrepresent what's going on in an effort to to obvious or sometimes sometimes outright lie about. What's going on, and this brings me to learn to code. Okay, yeah learn to code. So I asked you about this. The other day people getting banned for learn to code, I'm like what the fuck is that like what is that, so, when coal miners were getting laid off, a bunch of articles emerged, saying teaching minors to code, can we teach mine how to code and they're showing videos about it? I don't believe it wasn't. It wasn't intended to be derogatory or insulting, but to a lot of people that came off as this bourgeois, let them
cake. Oh, your career has been destroyed. Your fifty year old man with a family go to looking valley. Do something you've, never even thought about right. Let's, so it came off as a lot of people as just elitist right. So when these journalists are getting laid off, this means reds. I don't know exactly where it started where they say learned to code to the journalists. Well, this is interesting. Thing happens, John Levin. I think his name from the rap tweets. Someone from Twitter told me you will you can you can be banned for tweeting, learn to code at a late afternoon? Last conservative start treating it far and wide like here we go. This is a real porter from the rap was confirmed this all of a sudden, other journalists can't come out and say this is a lie. This is not sure. This is fake news, conservative writing, fake news again, and they say we have a new up, a new statement from Twitter. That said, we're only in banning were only banning people who are engaging in a harassment campaign. When I got a few problems is tweeting a Amy Matt somebody critical of them a harassment campaign. Is that a meme it yeah right. It's
like it condenses an idea. So here's the thing I got sent a bunch of screenshots screenshots from people now people can fix screenshots. I understand that, but I checked some people twitter accounts. I saw that they were tweeting this and I believe for the most part, this is what happened: someone tweeted some into a Buzzfeed journalist. You know, oh, you guys believed X, Y and Z, yeah, whatever hashtag learn to code, criticizing them suspension. So then these journalists come out and say this is not true. It's just apple engaging in harassment campaign. So I said, look at this guys. Account he's got one tweet that says: learn to code. Is him harassing somebody and they said oh you're, taking out of context, then John Levine from the rap says, update spokesperson, who was my source is now saying clarifying. It is about the harassment campaign and another journalist comes out and says he. His quotes, fake twitter and now you're saying it. But here's the thing: the editor in chief of the daily caller, just a couple that I think couple days ago, took a tweet from the daily show
and any it was a. It was a for the state of the union. I need to did learn to code and Quot tweeted a video suspended, so it's very clearly not about a harassment campaign, but why then we're all these journalists so ready to jump up and defend twitter when Twitter? You know what I said: okay Twitter is claiming their banning people who are engaging in harassment campaign. You mean they've, confirmed their banning people for tweeting learn to code. They just consider it harassment. How is it that learn to code is harassment but Kathy Griff in saying to all over millions of fans? I want these kids names several times or another verified account. I'm not going to name is not as famous literally calling for the death of these kids and instructing people to kill them is not a bannable offence. It's not harassment campaign. True, I don't want. I want to mention that doesn't mention the name, but yes, absolutely. He said something the effect of put them in a school lock
burn it down and when you see them fire on them, this guy still active on twitter that you know you know right now. There are aunt. So now we can there's there's so much here did yeah we've got the Prob ways, all of them perch from Twitter, okay, say whatever you want about the Prob ways. If they deserve to be banned, fine, why wasn't anti bend a lot of people respond to me and say, but TIM Anti foes, random people who wear mask you don't know? That's not true. There are branded bells of Antifa that have their own merchandise still active. Some of these groups have published the private information of law enforcement officers, still active, no action taken against them, so. You know I don't this this and indicates a heavy left wing bias. I not necessarily say left wing, I would say sectional identitarian ideological bias right, it's it's it's it's hard to pinpoint what the tribes are in the culture war.
Twitter is clearly acting in defense of intersectional activism. Now do you think that this is a mandate? Do you think this is written somewhere? Do you? There is people who are in the company that have power that are acting independently? It's it's grains of sand to make a heap right here in Silicon Valley, you're in a very blue area, the people who get hired to hold certain views and because they I live in their own bubble. They believe there, the majority and thus they think they're acting justly too bad and those who are at odds with them and the social engineering and- and this brings back into journalism the big problem. It's you know for decades how long journalism has been dominated by self identified? Liberals there's a ton of polls, I think is two thousand and fifteen full showing republicans are like seven percent of journalists or some ridiculously small number, and it really simple reason for it: news organizations are headquartered in big cities, the big ones. You know Fox NEWS is in New York. So there's a lot of people who work
Fox NEWS. Actually, liberal people don't seem to know that you live in New York, your problem, not a staunch conservative. So what happens then news breaks. You've got all these journalists cause. I've worked with them. You know I worked for place, I work for fusion and they sit around tables. They meet up after work from different offices and they talk about things and they tell each other the exact same, and so this is why you see Covington happen. These people follow each other on Twitter. So someone tweets this a kid got in the face of Nathan Phillips. I only see each other's tweets and they just write it. They don't do any journalism and it goes in a minute I for days, and that was even in the New York Times Correct yeah. You yeah the New York things. Harris talked about that and it's mind blowing to me because second, video that came out from Covington, you literally watch Nathan, Phillips walking up to the kitten getting space Bill Maher. You know what four five days later. It says the kid got his face and I'm like. How are you
shame on Bill Maher for for for saying that? It's not true, but the same time we have a serious journalism problem and this links back to twitter and and that that story in particular really he's almost like condensed all the problems, yeah and what's what's what's fascinating, is following the story on Ipad believe it was in New York. Time, said: stop tweeting or had never tweet Brian Stelter from CNN then got a statement that I always say. I believe, because I don't have the source is pulled up, but someone from Twitter said journalists are the lifeblood of our platform, and so that's why I think you've got these dominantly New York based progressive writers, they're fresh out of college. They get higher for know, moderate salaries to work in a newsroom each other all day. Sharing the same ideas not exploring anything outside their bubble and twitter supports them because they're the ones who drive traffic to Twitter, they keep the conversation going and I think that's where twitters bias partly comes from
the other. Is that clearly you're in San Francisco you're gonna? Have you know your your staff? The people who are, who are you know, running content, curation and banning people? They lean left. So why? Why Kathy Griffin wasn't band, probably because she's very famous, but then I have to wonder why Alex Jones was so the only the only real differentiator there. I guess, is either stream notoriety or ideological tribe. Well, Jamie you pulled up why Alex was banned too, which is you know? It's not very clear like when, when you think about the fact that they were saying that he had never done anything on their platform, that was banned a ball and then what was the one final thing like in it Jack didn't know what it was. He got. He confronted Oliver Darcy of CNN in DC and several minutes was yelling at him while they filmed and apparently that's. My understanding was the justification for banning him
are asking a journalist or something that affect which is, in my opinion, absurd, and it was doing it on Twitter. I guess they set to turn her live on periscope with their yellow yeller phone platform. So if you do something on periscope, they can get you banned from Twitter. Well, that's the same thing right, yeah the same because they're connected yep! I don't know at what point last. I think it was. Last year there was like a an announcement. I saw it on twitch, but I think it also put on you tube. They, like collectively said, if you do something on our platform. I'm sorry if you do something on platform and we see that you could lose your status on our platform to or if I need a letter. That means public also, and we see that with with patron, but I don't deviate to page around yeah. We can we can get to that later, but so so I in my opinion, so what we it's make. It makes a good point. How does Alex Jones get banned for giving that guy hard time? But Kathy Griffin doesn't band for literally calling for these children eating a harassment campaign again
not names of someone with millions of followers led a harassment campaign, I'm going to use their language if you're, calling on your followers to do something. You you're engaging in a campaign but Alex Jones confronting the journalists who advocated for his banning is a bannable offense and here's the important about Jones. Oliver Darcy said on CNN. It wasn't that Jones broke the rules that got him banned because you know what what Darcy said is he's been breaking the rules in the pack they never cared. It was only because of media pressure. They took action against him, okay. Well, we know many other people break. The rules we know far left accounts have Doc's law enforcement. We know Kathy Griffin, let a harassment campaign. There's no media pressure, that's one of the big problems. Twit knows conservatives aren't going to be able to level any kind of campaign against their platform. There's not scared of it, but you know. I often wonder why is it that, as as as prominent and power shuffle is conservative groups can be why they often lose these cultural battles?
And I'm not gonna say this is the primary reason, but I will point out: do you does does twitter believe that you know I often use Sargon of Akkad as an example, the liberal list and ICW character? Do they believe he lead a group of liberal liberal lists and San individualists to twitter headquarters with crowbars and molotov cocktails, of course not so that what did he get banned? For my because I know what happened with on but what happen his original twitter thing was that he posted an image of interracial gay porn at white nationalists. So, but I don't I I don't. I think that the first time and then he got banned for that he will he. Then he came back to the platform and then got. I don't know what happened the second time. I think it was bad, but what are the porn rules because sometimes I'll be scrolling through my feet and you'll just see porn, I understand it is not allowed. I corns is not allowed, I mean what about porn star. It is I've heard I've heard it is a lot and I've heard it isn't it's. Definitely there
yeah yeah, it's like porn stars have porn. If you go to a porn stars, page you'll see porn on it, a lot of it yeah like real penetration porn, they don't care or may there's there's the truce between India marked by someone is saying this is an appropriate and if enough people that follow Porn STAR, don't think it's an appropriate. It does and then get flag and assist. Well, that's good news. I think we may have found the Switzerland of the Culture war porn. Yeah. No one wants to ban porn the left and the right there like whoa hold on hold on now. That's ok, it's ok! We can ban them for their ideas. You know just leave the porn alone, but but the point I was making is you see Antifa at Berkeley, one hundred thousand dollars damaged by molotov cocktails, threatening people in and you had a Bernie voter carrying and american flag. These are anti fascist. The Antifa tried stealing the flag from club him over the head game, a concussion
in a hospital. So when I see the the ramifications of higher from the left or the right, what is what conservatives do? I mean the GOP couldn't even find a yearbook in the Virginia governor's race. I don't think they're considered to be that big of a cultural threat. They react to things. They get upset about things that are unfair against them, but they don't go to the streets with clubs and bricks and smashed windows like antiphon other. You know far left us to do so. If they do they're considered racist, it's always like some sort of a racist mom that was the that's like the label to get put on them. Yeah and then you know like that was the label that was put on the proud boys almost immediately right there white supremacy, even though there was people of call or that were amongst the ranks and well they changed the definition of racists. Do you know what the whole origin of the proud voices ideo? Is this kind of fucking hilarious? Yet up get up? I'm not good Anthony Cumia told the whole story on this show because it happened with him and Gavin Mcginnis that Gavin
Mcginnis came up with it because of a guy that work there and they were doing it as a goof, and then it became a move and then became like anybody can join in the people that join date. They took it into a radical way and then it became looking to beat up anti fine. It's just like Fark will Gavin's cross the line? Yes, that's you know there is and I'll point out for your. You mentioned media matters in a in a recent. You know that you're talking about Alex Jones, I wouldn't use them as a source for anything. Well, it's a good point yeah, but it was just clips of Alex talking that doesn't matter I they there's a there's: a click on run of Gavin Mcginnis, where you can hear and saying these crazy things and you're like well. He said it right, but it turns out some of the clips. You talk about dogs, they they can. You know you really can't take the context out of things and these clips, I understand so what happens if I'm even afraid in my videos, I don't quote people anymore, because people have taken me reading a quote from newspaper and attributed to me
for reading someone else's quote and they say oh, but he said it right right I mean you, look it up the relief. The really funny instance of count. Thank you love that without the puppet is a hilarious story and they told him context didn't matter so when he leaves the courtroom the reporter says. You said this phrase which I'm not going to say, and he says so, do you? If contact doesn't matter, you should be arrested too. Yes, but that's you know. No, so when is it happening? Is these activist groups they take? These quotes out of contact, but, admittedly I think it's fair to point out. A lot of people recognize Gavin. If you can assume they were or not doesn't matter, he said things that were over the over. The line will grabs the main problem. The indefensible problem was the call to violence right in the calling calling for violence, and I don't think Gavin's like he's another one is like a prank stories that got punk rock style prankster and he likes to burn it to the ground yep and look I'm a fan of Gavin's interviews on Youtube where he'll he hoodwinks people in it
sitting down and talking to him, or I don't even know if they're still up anymore, but my understanding, he ruin some chicks life. Also, I mean this like somewhat figuratively. She was a left wing individual. He didn't know who he was. He asked her to come on and her friends, basically just disavowed immediately 'cause. She was talking to him because she sounded an unintelligent. Oh yeah, I gotta tell you man, he cornered, or I don't know if have this issue, but for the longest time it's it's. It's substantial the harder to interview someone on the ideological left than anyone else right. So I recently reached out to you know I regularly reach out to people, but I'm not going to name drop 'cause. I don't want to drag people, but man. It takes weeks organize a meeting with some of these personalities who are progressives and on the left own, even even people who, like I've, got messages from people saying yeah man. I watch yourself all the time but hold on. Let me let me think about it and talk to some people first and I'm not saying they're doing it, because there
skittish or it's just harder, it's a lot harder. Well, they're, probably more cautious, especially if you know you where, where your ideology stand, is ambiguous, they're, trying to figure it out? Oh yeah! If here, if you're you know man, even even David David Pakman, Jimmy Dore, get get dragged through the sometimes I see people on twitter calling them all to write. Another word for intellectual dark web Jimmy Dore is an interesting character. I really like dark yeah. I think such an interesting guy he's very smart, but he's he's like he an angry lefty but, like he defends jazz fest is going to say one hundred percent. Here's. My thing, then I was in Berkeley. It was this big protest against bench: zero and there's a guy wearing a mask with the you know, communist flag, full like red gear. So I got to interview him and I'm like you mind if I interview was like yeah yeah. Of course I was like really all that surprising and that
we start talking, and I said how do you feel about these people who dress in all black and you know, are fighting people and causing problems? Oh that's terrible! I was like it you think. So, really it's actually I'm surprised because often when I see people you know fully masked up with communist stuff there, typically in favor of the by any means not by any means necessary strategies, and he was like no way man that's wrong, and so I'm, like you know it man, I don't care if you're communist don't care if you're whatever. As long as authoritarian who thinks you have the right to beat other people to instill your ideology on them or use manipulative for sore coercion or extortion like so let me let me let me talk about why I think what we're seeing with there might be one of the biggest problems ever Twitter Youtube, Facebook, these platforms or where we exist socially. Politically, it's where ideas are exchanged. It's where we learn about who were going to vote for why we won't vote for somebody when you ban somebody,
you exile them they're, no longer part of that conversation, so they're very much so told you're outside the city. Walls right you can't come in. You can talk to and there's nothing you can do about it. But then, when you realize the rules are actually bent, you know slanted in a certain direction. You can then predict where things are going. Did you see the green, the Green New deal Alexander Kaiser Cortez? No there's so she publishes a non binding resolution which means that even if it passes they can't enforce anything. But my god. I thank the FEI fact sheet. They released alongside it. Literally said they want to provide economic security for people who are unwilling to work. Ok, I swear. I got yeah CNBC reported this cover this. Apparently this got from the site. This is there's a chart from the economist.
Frequently show this in the content I make where you can see, the conservatives are coalescing around common ideologies for a while. There was some upset in the party because people didn't like Trump, but now they've pretty much. You know they say it's. The party of Trump people agree with them. Ted Cruz even stands and give him a standing ovation at the state of the union, but the left been spreading out and again. This is from a chart put together by the economist. The Democrats are very clearly being spread from far left of center and it's kind of making it very difficult for the Democrats to you know, put forth on that makes sense. If I was on your quote, because a Cortez you know she puts out the green new deal, but in the bill it talks about equity, racial justice, the gender pay gap, things that have nothing to do with the environment and then Nancy Pelosi says green dreams. You know, and she and she derives this. You can see that there's a new faction of the Democrats that have you know holy ideological drive, and I think one of the reasons for this is what we see on social media right. The ideological bent of the platform then lead to the mass followings of specific individuals
who then use specific tactics to get elected, and it's you know when these platforms only allow certain ideas to form those ideas will naturally rise to the top of our political space, and then you get crazy stuff like if you're unwilling to it will provide you economic security, which you know. I don't know what that means other than some people who choose not to work will get paid. I guess from taxpayer money, but will don't seem to the insane and not only that where's that money coming from right for you this actually at what what's up another anything that no I mean I mean, I know what you mean literally yeah Andrew Andrew Cuomo, said God forbid. If the rich leave New York, because uh believe one percent of New York, the top one percent pay forty six percent of their of their taxes of the revenue they use, and so they just had a big budget sort shortfall. I believe it was something Trump did that, because a shortfall in there and they were asked if they would tax rich and he was like- no god forbid, you know they'll leave and they're already leaving. So you incoming
incoming a million people, sing, I'm conservative for bring that out. But you know facts are facts. I suppose Beau facts are facts and that's what's really important about this and that when you suppress any any ideology, if you are the left, he suppressed the right. It is just going to shore up their defense is and they're just going to harden their line. That's just how it goes. That's how human nature's you can't tell people what to d'oh. You know I can't you were right and you know a lot of people might say. I I'm I'm a little alarmist when I mentioned the potential civil war. But let me clarify, like I don't I'm not saying I brought this up before I'm not saying it's going to be like 1800s, too eighteen hundreds to big battlefields, but at the same time, what people don't seem to realize when it comes to history. Is that when you read about word, two we've condensed all the highlights into a very short paragraph or series of paragraphs, and you don't realize the war was several years. There were periods where nothing happened. I was in Egypt during the second revolution. You could look down and you could see Tahrir square people screaming laser pointers, helicopters, Apaches and then
in the news. We've just we've depose the President two blocks away a dudes eating a cheeseburger, Mcdonald's, Mcdonald's, watching football football match as if nothing's happening. So when you look at the street battles, the political violence, when you look at the biased bannings you look at the dude, there was a guy who hired a couple of rounds at a police officer in Eugene or some bombs got planted at the police department or somebody planted bombs at a statue in Houston. It start I feel, like there's some kind of political violence that is bubbling up. That can't be mended at this point. When did the a lot of this comes from the suppression that we're talking about people don't feel like they have a voice or that voice is being suppressed by an opposing ideology. You know yes, but it is really complicate it's it's. I can't claim to know how everything happens, but what I will say is, I believe,
of social media is responsible for the political violence. I believe it's it's not just about suppression. It's you look at Tom, the systems that were built, Facebook right. What content can make it to the front page of your facebook, part of of your facial profile when you're? Looking your news feed will twitter Facebook has to build an algorithm to determine what matters. Most companies then figure out how to manipulate that algorithm. To get that content in front of you, because you know at most, you can see what three posts on Facebook, so what happens is early on companies quickly found out that anger draw? Who is the most shares of any emotion? All of a sudden, we see a wave of police brutality videos. There was one website that posted almost exclusively police brutality content and it was like Alexa four hundred in the world. Some ridiculous number blew my mind. I knew someone claims to that. There may six figures. Writing police brutality articles because it was pure rage, bait right that just shares really easily, but that content constantly being put in front of somebody breeds and ideology.
You then tell someone: did you know that you know white, surprise CS on the rise and there are eleven million white supremacists in the US and they go. I can believe it, but that's nonsense. It's just not just not the case. The Anti defamation league in the Splc say that at rough estimates, or maybe like ten or twelve thousand, but people really believe that there is like that. The president is secretly a nazi and that he's being propped by the secret Kobol or there's an alternative influence network on you to where you and me are somehow trying to convince people to you know this is ridiculous. Well, that's the the the in thing yeah. What was are called data side right right, yeah and that's that's that was that nonsense yeah we would it would we get connected to a we all right adjacent? Are we put liquor any that were part of the it's a network that feeds into extremist ideologies another they connected me to people? Well, that's! That's the sucks, so schizophrenic. The way it's drawn out the little map where one person's
connected to another person and what I said to her. I said Barbara Walters interviewed Fidel Castro that make our communist. So I tweet it I'm like you're crazy. This is a crazy way to look at things, but what happened with that story just out to a bunch of journalists? I know I don't own a journalist, I'm I'm a member of the Online NEWS Association like I've. I've been I've been a speaker at their offense and I'm reaching out these journalist like hey. Why did you guys write that? That's just completely fake? It got my name like my name in the middle right. You know me right. You can call me to quote you say: don't do it right. They just uncritically report it and there's a couple reasons for it: the media, Facebook. Recently we change their algorithm. I don't know this was a while ago. They may have changed it again, but it it was a huge hit to the incomes of a lot of these companies when all of a sudden news articles stopped appearing as much because Facebook wanted friends and family to be more connected and less so news organizations. So these news organizations who write this viral click bait and rage content weren't getting as much traffic so where they you know they have to go crazy. They have to
you know, and so it's it's it's a downward spiral of where these journalists all follow each other. They start producing. I I don't, I don't think it's a conspiracy, they produce the stuff, I think they're hired specifically because the content they produce is viral and if I, for a reason right and so the more they produce it, the more they eat their own. You know excrement essentially and then it's a game of telephone phone, where they're sitting in a circle constantly telling each other the craziest things and it gets crazier and crazier. But another aspect of it is, I read an article saying you know: Trump is racist. It goes viral the next day they the same article. So the right trump is the most racist the next day day after that, to keep one upping it and- and it gets we talked about this with Forbes articles, the term nasty surprise the
use it would tack like they'll, say the new Galaxy S. Ten has a nasty surprise, the new Iphone ten. As a nasty surprise, you keep saying hasn't it's it's a layer. Is it's almost like there's a form letter and they just take whatever Xbox. Stick it in there nasty surprise and it's it's a high percent click bait and its forms, and you telling me the Forbes that with that's essentially is it's like user contributions, yeah yeah, yeah yeah. I I could probably submit an article that, like a network of people, don't know how you can get approved, but there's a lot of articles that just get read about like the new video game today. So it's a click, big title, yeah just get some ads has a nasty surprise, but it's almost like they have like a pattern that they've just accepted what is going to work, but it's not a conspiracy. It's just like minded people who are only ever around each other, sharing the same things among each other, believing all the same things,
so you'll notice that certain words emerge specifically among certain groups. You know like the left. Will you certain words and then, if, like learn to code, doesn't appear that much and left wing rhetoric, but it burned the the can serve it. If and the anti identitarian types understand what it is, and so the justification for banning someone for saying learn to code, regardless of the context, seems insane yeah. That seems it is a. It seems like you got, one in particular is almost in defense. I mean not almost that's indefensible. Absolutely like there been people who are, but let let me let me, let me be fair. There are people on the left have been banned, Apps Lee Hudson. There was a lot of venezuelan accounts that were banned and a lot of people are very critical. I saw Abby Martin was was criticizing this yeah because they accuse them of being government actors because they were pro venezuelan government, but the most the one thing there's some occupy Wall Street activists who absolutely detest me. They lie about me. I do not like them for doing this. They were banned abroad. Plea for literally no reason- and this is what's more worrisome to me- is that no one defended them. No one defended them, because
conservative certainly won't, but neither well the mainstream. You know ideological left. These are activists for class issue is for international issues there on the left squarely and they were accused, I guess of being bots or something just. It was just an abrupt purge of like fifty accounts and some of the more like independent citizen journalists just wiped out and with no recourse, no recourse, none whatsoever. So yeah I mean at some point you have to realize how important twitter is when the president is on it. Could you imagine if there was a physical space worked where everyone was talking and the president shows up, and everyone keeps yelling at and they're all talking, because you had that law where they said it was a public forum. Imagine that happens, and then a private private, individual bars you from hearing what the president has to say right. It's a complicated issue, I'm sorry, your you get a lot of people on the left saying. Private businesses can do whatever they want. That blew my mind because the left was usually about not letting massive
LT national billion dollar corporations get away with suppressing speech, but well that was another thing that people get pissed at me about Jack Dorsey and rightly so- that he said that it's a human right to be able to communicate online is human, but the fact that he said it, but yet all these people are banned. So how like to take away someone's human right it there should be an egregious example. I mean it should be something like I mean what Doc sing someone like calling for violence like trying and anybody, but even then, but clearly that's not the case if Kathy Griffin still online but hold on, you can kill if you in being and get twenty five years right good point, so you can literally strip someone of their of their yes everything and still not be purged prominently. This was one of the things that Jack and I discussed post podcast. I said you know when we were going back and forth about doing this again. You know I told him. I would really
to see if there's some sort of a path to redemption, like you know, for example, for Milo, I mean who's just like we talked about yesterday about Christian Pick, a Lini who was a white supremacist who realize the error of his ways and then became this activist against racism, and and now we give these TED speeches and yes well, you know what accepted by everyone as being this guy who's achieved redemption and really under, and the error of his ways with Milos banned for life Milos only like thirty, four years old right homes, Milo around there- I don't know I I hope I hope then make him older than he is probably mad, but whatever it is like who's to say that Milo, you know in three years from now. I won't have a change of heart. You know I have a can acid trip or something that makes a different person, but if you're banned for life, are we throwing people away like you ever see that tweet from I'm going to say? I think it was Tyler that
greater where he said. How is cyber bullying real? Just you know, like closure outside, go outside close your eyes. I'm sorry man! U, if you want to ban hate speech, I can understand I'm no fan of a speech. I think it's wrong. I think you shouldn't, you know, target people for the first, the characteristics we should respect one another. At the same time, also a human adult who understands sometimes people are mean you ever walked out goto. You know Subway in LOS Angeles, and some guy starts calling you all the names in the book. Are you gonna do about it? Nothing, that's just life people are mean sometimes have they punch you that crossed the line right, but on twitter you know my low once say mean things block mute. You know I do I press. Yes, yeah you don't even black people about some people yeah the my little one was very very weird: they were looking for a read and here's the other part of it. You know what he ultimately got in trouble air quotes for was him talking about the positive experiences that he had as a young man being molested? I think that was after he was already banned, though
I don't think so. Well, you might have been banned from twitter already, but then he got kicked off of Youtube and he left, I don't think you set up Youtube, is nothing you still on Youtube 'cause it was it bright bar that he left fired. He bright Bart quit Bart is another thing too, though you know we all these journalists writing. All these articles, saying like Milo, is gone. Milo is whining and he's no more. I'm like dude. It's got like six million followers across his instagram is Youtube and his facebook, he posts all the time. Yeah the job he's on the public conversation as much as he was before, because Dave censored up when you're not on twitter right the journalists who make up the huge core of their verified users, who apparently quite a scene out across the life leather platform on top or talk about you, but here's my my point he's not saying that men should go, have sex with younger boys. Who is basically saying that it could be a positive experience because it was for him. Well, I don't, I don't know anything about what happened in that capacity. In might might point was, if I said
when I was thirteen a twenty one year old girl fondled me. Do you think I get in trouble if I said it was awesome now about I, wouldn't you want yeah yeah, that's not what rod my brother was pointing out 'cause law and order. Svu is basically on twenty four slash, seven like ninety eight. The episodes are only ever about women, never about and being victims. Sometimes they are, but he was like now. I just realized that now is like, let's society. Well, that's a special victims unit. That's that show me the that, like they have so many versions of law and order, but that one in particular I don't know, but I mean it deals with sex crimes. Yes and almost every episode where it really ever talk about male victims, rights which exists right. You know I mean, and so I I don't. I don't want to get like into a men's rights thing, but now I think it's yes, you know fairly obvious. A lot of people like you mentioned yeah. If you set it, nobody would care, but my let's get you right, and so it becomes, you know, becomes a thing for him. Yes, yeah yeah! I do it's some. If what
there's we need some kind of clear guidelines right or you can operate inside these guidelines and all's fair, it's just I mean to an extreme extent. It is time comedians will be allowed to operate dancing on the line. You know I mean like you. Obviously I think so right right I'll tell you so I can tell you this shit. Tell me something after this is over. That's going to get to Larison will find out about it in the future, on everyone's going to secret notes on a secret. It's a comedy secret. It's about something, but you know it should say. But but I'll take this to you to remind me, but I'll take this appart. You need to segway into another point when it comes to the bias right uh. How is it that you can have Jimmy Kimmel Jimmy Fallon dress in black face on there, when ah CNN made a big list? I don't know exactly when it happened. I think Kimball was on the man show he dressed like a basketball player and Jimmy Fallon, just like Chris Rock,
oh Jesus, Sarah Silverman did it yeah. I think she addressed it though. Yes, everybody, nobody loses their minds. Nobody loses their minds over that because they're on the left, you think. No, I don't know it's it's I I honestly, I would say, to an extent, there's probably some kind of tribal bias. Well, I think when you're going back to high school yearbooks looking for outrage from fifty five year old people, you've lost the plot. You've lost in that crazy is fucking insane. What's what's crazy, is when Kathy Griffin tweets out that the three pointer hand sign at a Covington basket. Game was a nazi hand. Gesture like the three dot three point of this thing: to do it because the photos of a fly. Ok, I put a series of them on my instagram when I found out about that. I put Bill Cosby doing it, don't found one of me from Newsradio S as in aren't they using it, though, for that symbol, I know that it's a universal symbol. It means a lot of thing. Yes, I think you are using it as a symbol. Yeah they're they're, not you sing it to me my power, another, not
the one. It's not okay! Well, we don't know with those cops using it for that's the that's the that's the the. What was it called. It's called the okay game of don't look game where you put the the symbol on your waist and if someone looks at you to punch him, what is this a game? Kids play? No, no! No! No, not the sweetest, not cops that had it on their on their legs. No, there were all doing it. There was like four I'm doing it in a photograph and the other will be holding it up or they holding on their legs. Hello. I don't know yeah, I know, but I'm so, let's all of us, let's break this down. I can explain this to you. Okay, please do Donald Trump when he talks. He makes the ok hand sign well these these pointing he's making. I mean, ok, if he does it this way. Is that ok, if he does this, I don't care what Trump does the devils? I mean if you flip people off, it's probably a bad thing, but so what happens as he starts? Doing the okay sent there? Okay, okay, sign so bunch of Trump supporter start doing it too, to be like hey, I'm like Trump right right off
four Chan campaign get started, saying, convinced everyone. This actually means white power right. It was fake. The Anti defamation League said it was fake. Yes, a bunch of journalists said it was real. That's what I put on my Insta yeah put all this on my instagram, including the article where it showed. The original thing came from four Chan: four Chan's fucking hilarious, powerful. It's hilarious! How much shit they start. They started the flat earth movement. There's the guy. I never heard that oh yeah yeah yeah. They start with his photo and see what I can give you. It's got a little opt up to conspiracy. How do we get back to that? What's going on the connection to the tv shows and I'll? No, the Hollywood conspiracy, the button I have is making it go there and it's not going there. So I don't know Jesus Jamie this gremlins in this fucking room I would play it will figure it out. It's hard, allegedly. I would say this. We need to see that, though ninety show me in laptop. I would. I would be willing to okay there's the image. Take a good look at him, so, okay,
guys this out on their leg. Yes, that's specifically game where, when you look at it, they get to punch you what they're not holding the hand sign up, they're, not flashing it like you see the conservatives do right, I'm not the nine! That is a game, but to say that that's what those guys are doing is a such a bit of a stretch. I believe well, when you think they're doing what is it as to say that if, if fortune did that to to make to to make it up at some point, people would think that that is true. That right now, that's like it when no way has happened, look all say this is it? Is it bleeding? Friebele thing came right fortune right. If you don't know, please explain that people call you okay, free bleeding was four Chan thought it would be hilarious by the way shyla booze at the fucking comedy store last night. I wonder uh because you're always ragging on him. Um free bleeding came from four Chan where they said that they were. They were promoting this idea that for women's rights that they would, you know, get away there
get away from this whole idea of you have to control your menstrual cycle, empowering to just bleed all over your crotch, and so women actually started doing it because it actually, if you can fucking, you can get those ideas out there are certain number of knuckleheads are going to take everyone with it and think it's really. Of course you don't think that's possible with the white power, though I think it's extremely unlikely. I think it's so here's the thing is absolute right. Are there some some white supremacist or doing it for sure? But you don't? You think you looking at bad asses with fucking guns, they're playing this little silly game. Yeah. Really, I think they're a bunch of bros who are you know, do you ever you ever hang off like some frat dudes at a college, they punch each other. That's that there's a game. So how does it go again? You make okay hand, sign okay and you hold it under a table or on your legs. They're adults use their guys there we're not in college they're, definitely not a below twenty five years old. What does that mean? I know I know four,
your old guys who played you know pokemon, I know go on. One of my goals is a game six, this thing. Well, I don't listen, listen, okay, but what they do it. What is their job? What with the the Swat team guys as a band? They were arresting a drug dealer and what do you? What do you think during the trying to make sure everybody knows that there are flashing and overt white power hand gesture? Because everyone knows that's what it means that they didn't think everyone knew will not it's not. It's just not case the thing that the point is holding the okay sign up. Next to you is what know people say it's the w in the p bing on your leg has always been the the punch game or whatever like I don't. You know that punching yeah. You know that punch 'em game, one hundred percent because it go you put it out and put the ok symbol on your leg or under a table, and you say: hey look and if they look down and see it go and then you punch me in the arm. I know it so. Well, that's why I don't think that's what they're doing like me and my friends, one of the way it so then it's a major look. It's made to look major look right so, but what are they doing? Right? Look. Look, listen man, if you want to.
If you want to make assumptions about what you think their intentions were. That's all you. I don't have any facts to support that, and the only thing I know of is there a game where you put the ok sign in your leg and then you point somebody- and here are some guys- pudding, ok, sign in their leg. What evidence do we have anything other than that? Nothing, so that I'm not going to go any further than that say. Was it poor judgment? Oh hell, yeah? Maybe but listen. We know about what happened in Philly with these Marines who got beat up by Antifa. No, I do not so there's some. There was a rally put on by some constitutional libertarians. I don't know exactly what it was all about. Antifa shows up in protests. Some Marines apparently are just walking by because there was a marine event. Antifa sees them and yells. Are you proud? They said he says, I'm Marina said. Are you a proud boy, and he said you know, I don't know they beat him up these. They arrested. Several people charged with multiple felonies Marines got beat up. No, it proud boy was so to assume that these guys know anything about. What's going on in cultural politics, it's
you know when you're in the know and you're on Twitter, when you're reading the news all day, you look at the say they knew what they were doing. What these are small, like what city of these guys from even do they watch the news all day. Do they go on four Chan? Do they go on fox dot com and read and know what this is about? Okay, I appreciate your looking at this with a broad perspective. It is entirely possible that they did. It's also entirely possible that within their friend group, it means you're buying lunch. It could mean a million things it could mean, but in the cultural context of two thousand and eighteen, when this happened, that the ok symbol doesn't even mean white power is it is. It is a tribal sign among Anti, don't anti Intersectional's and Trump supporters, but don't remember when was there was a woman that got in trouble for she was in court and she had it on her arm she's just and in their lives on saying so insane, because she was basically
she had her finger in and I'm like that yeah you can make that and they and they were smiles with it yeah she's making. So I powers you have to understand when I see that- and I see that you carry out but there's a difference between someone just moving their hands around and doing this, and you know making away good thing, she did fall on. Do it the next day, though, probably on purpose. Thank you. Maybe you put on a, but I thought she would yeah it's just you, okay sign. You have to assume watching the news then yeah. Well, I would she's sitting in the cabin I hearing, but it's entirely possible that, albeit unlikely that she was just telling buddy, okay like or that she was she's used to doing that with her arm, and I didn't think about it. There's you're allowed to make assumptions yeah and operated assumptions, but eventually you start getting off so crazy and you know how the assumptions are going to leave until your believe in the moon. Landing was fake. Let me ask you this, though. Don't you think that some people do that and they do it because they are making the symbol for white power. Some as in what one thousand and fifteen twenty I don't know, I think I don't know about another.
Listen nothing's, absolute I'd, be I'm pretty sure, they're, probably some white supremacists who do that yeah. But here's the thing most of these people who are unfortunate, who would even use the emoji? Who would do it in public not doing it to signal white power they're doing it a signal opposition to the tribal left when they take photos? And you see someone like Cassandra Fairbanks, who is a Trump supporter writer. She she she's she's noted because she stood at the podium made the ok hand sign, and then this right hear from splinter news which used to be called fusion. I worked there. Full disclosure claimed it was a white power hand gesture and she got because I just sued over it just she alternately, loot lost because it's like you know, free speech, slanders hard to sue for, but she did it because of the Trump sign, not because white power, so the p or even white supremacists aren't signifying white power, their signal into other Trump supporters to write. It doesn't mean white power.
So, just because someone on the left says it means white power. That does not mean it means why power within their group is that what you're saying yeah it like? We all just decide that this means something else. Like my friends, peace among peace among nations, I put my peace among worlds. My friend, Steve Rinella, would talked about this in the pockets he got beat up once by his friend, where he grew up in Michigan and in Michigan, as almost like for fun like like, if I said, hey fucker like if I called you a fucker as friends, you would laugh and like what's up dude, it would be cool, so he would give the bird and they would call it the Michigan, hello, and so the chicken wave, or something like that, so as I was driving by saw, is for anyone like that like. If I saw you do dad, I was like what's up to him, there was ah, but you don't know about his friend, didn't know this so his friend. He grabbed him through the to the ground. He was more fight. Mother, like what are you talking about like what's going on, is that you gave me the birds are Jesus, I'm from Michigan yeah like that's, we're, havin, fun right, that's just
I'm your friend and he was over the guy's house, helping them build a greenhouse or something like you doing, some work with the guy and I still come to the ground 'cause. He thought that this was a you got it fixed now, there's really there's gonna be a ton of people, the you know, saying, tombs, boot, liquor and all that stuff right promises. That is like a man like I'm, not I I I do not I'm a big fan of conspiracy theories on a big fan of making assumptions about the intentions of other people. If you can prove it, I'm willing to hear it, but people this country are innocent till proven guilty. What do we have? We have doing some cops doing. Something dumb think do I think it was. Why is it was wrong and of course, absolutely should have done it do. I think it means, as promised us now their tops. Yes, I'm not that look I've I ate. I am no fan of police. I you know I I I grew up as like a left. Far left anarchists gate, border top. Screwed me all the time I thought cops, kick my door. It guns drawn.
I was in Chicago and cops pulled me over me and my buddies. This is all on video at gunpoint screaming at us. It was the craziest experience I ever had. I am no fan, but if you don't have evidence, I'm not just going to this is a thing about how these biases function. You get people who will see all these videos like these experiences and immediately assume the worst about these guys. Don't know anything about these guys. They did something dumb, but I don't know why. So I can't really go beyond that other than leave their official statement was there playing the game, but I could be wrong to make assumptions about their character or what they believe simply because they made an okay sign on their leg. It's like you, can't convict somebody in a court. You know what I mean and I'm I'm a big fan of the presumption of innocence and black this formulation and how we side on the we we are on the side of protecting the innocent. I think you got a good point in also in the fact that this is a extremely recent hand, gesture, that's being associated with white supremacy and clearly came from prankster,
and you have to assume these guys are on four Chan or read these websites like come on man, these dudes they probably go to work all day. They talk about food, all they go home, they said their lounge chair and, have you know the beer and a slice of pizza or whatever it is they they do? I don't think these guys, people, man, you know people, don't know how to say operate their own personal bubble from reality. They assume. If I know you must know it actually something Shane Smith told me he said, doesn't understand. Why is it that if he can do it, you can't right and that's in point that people don't seem to realize you mean by that, like he said to me, I can speak French. Why can't you like people live in this mindset? They assume, if I know what everyone knows it right so they're gonna be like no every. I saw an article about that. Everyone must know what it is like. No, no dude there's some people who don't watch tv there's. Some people play video games all day, there's people who don't do any of that for all. No these guys they every day after work there
to a children's shelter, an provide soup and they don't watch the news at all like I'm, not. I don't believe that they actually do. I'm just saying I have no idea what's going on their lives, you're making assumptions about what they know who they are, and I think you know I I'm a firm believer that we have problems of racism in this country. I believe institution on systemic racism. Really real problem need to be solved all that stuff. That still doesn't mean you get to just lay someone and make assumptions about what they believe who they are because of one thing you know if, if, if you, if you made a joke, what, if what if they did it because they were ironically doing it right, if you made a joke ten years ago, my can assume you actually believe it. Maybe that's something silly. You know we this newscaster in New York who who accidentally said mark the third moon yeah. You know it and- and it happened happen again, you know I don't have another one recently, you also and- and another thing happened that no one cared about was I die and see and then sad, a racial slur for jewish people in the same way, no one cared about that one. You know.
So there was a CNN anchor. What did he say? I don't want to say it, but he he, the k, word right. I think still say it as long as in a company, and it was the same thing. He quickly fit corrected himself right and that didn't come up as an issue. But the point is this: do you know why it? Why is he being fired right? Even people came to his defense are going to assume nasty things about him like? Are we really getting to the point where we're going to look at a photo? We don't know the con. Next, we don't know these people are in their names and we're going to be like running with steak. Well, there's another issue too, and this is this is how we are doing it. That's so crazy. I didn't even I meant to do this, but there is another issue that people do accidentally like because they're worried about saying something. They will say something right. I had a friend and he was warm up guy for Tell
Shin show. Do you know how warm up works like there's? Let's have a sit coms being filmed, there's a guy who I keep the crowd laughing yeah yeah walks around to the front, and he had he had an anxiety attack. She had a panic attack in the panic attack was this. He was doing the Cosby Show and he was for whatever reason it got into his head. Don't say the word, don't say it don't say any started sweating and he city he started stammering and he literally couldn't talk. He had some anxiety issues and he locked up and literally couldn't could barely did say it is no. He didn't say it was terrified that he was going to say that's weird, but that could be what's going on with someone saying, Martin Luther Coon, like especially the second guy.
Obviously the second guy heard the first guy I do and it was a freudian slip, its and its final and don't say it would have you do don't say that I'll, let you in on a funny funny little secret, though I I did it in what my videos. You said that and then I started laughing it was about. It was a it. It was a guy, it was about the story, and so you had at it and I said it laughed and I just I I did it. I got my videos, you know I don't do. I don't do live shots. You know I do. I do like sometimes, but I was just like I started laughing. I just literally just laughing and I'm like, I can't believe it do because the store he was about him saying it. I purposefully don't say these on Youtube, because I don't want to ban hammer sure. So I'm like this guy accidentally said Martin Luther and then he you is a slur and then later when I was reading it, I said it and I started laughing I'm just like, but I I understand what you know. It's it's not even about saying the slur it's about when you have two words, your head and you actually put together. Yes, you know, that's happened to CNN guy.
Sometimes I call someone the wrong name. It don't realize I've done it right. Like Jamie said you said Jack, oh I thought I said. John we've had that conversation before I I literally in my head. Think I'm the right thing, but I'm not you know. I I made a huge huge mistake. I want my videos. I deleted the video because of it because, instead of saying Harvey Weinstein, I said Brett. Oh no and Brett's awesome Brett such a cool dude, I'm a big fan and I publish the video and someone messaged me and they were like just wanna. Let you know you made this big mistake and I said some pretty awful things and I felt so bad. I think I've and similar I was like I've done the same food. I was like that. Guy is so cool. Like I'm a big fan of his work. I just was like. I tried editing it and I'm like I'm deleting it hands down. I would rather just move the video out right then to say disparaging word against that man yeah and I was an accident I, but I didn't even know I said it. I think I did the exact same thing. I did the exact same thing I believe on stage once 'cause I had a bit about Harvey
Weinstein and you said I think I said Brett huh yeah. I think I said it on the stand. Fortunate yeah 'cause there polar opposites, Bretts fantastic, but it's actually Weinstein right, so that will help yeah, say Stein instead of steam and four four. Yes, no for Brett for an Eric yeah one Stein, Weinstein gap Harvey Winds, Dean, Brett Weinstein I can, and even though I did it spelled the side. I I I I did that, but you know I had. I did a light at it. I published it and I start getting messages from people and I was like watch my god. It's a problem. You know like when you're thinking and talking at the same time there's a bunch of words bouncing around in your head and you're just trying to, and you think you're saying the right thing when you know that's why intent is so critical, George, Carlin, yeah and magic words are so fucking dangerous. You know, and that is why
I'm going to tell you about later. Alright yeah, you know about a specific comedian that we know and love. While George Carlin was absolutely amazing. He what he not only was he absolutely amazing, but people don't have to you. You almost have to have lived during the time where he was getting arrested, like not like Lenny Bruce for him, but to understand how significant he was when he was and that seven dirty words you can't say on television like back, then people like what the fuck is this guy doing was. It was groundbreaking when he did, I think, was in what not ninety two. He did that bit. What if I a lot, he basically ran off fifty racial slurs and then actually all the Eddie Murphy and Richard Pryor. The n word, you are that's! Well, yes, and everyone laughed yeah. Everyone left because they understood as an tent. They understood that he didn't actually disrespect them. They understood that he didn't mean anything bad about it. He was making a point about the
Cyst asshole, behind the words and it's funny to me. This is the thing then I when I was younger, I was, I was far left men skin, tight black sure this is the virus. You know virus punk, rock bands, anti things like that. I was trying to think of it's been so long I'll. Try to think of the band shirts we have and and were we were angry and pissed off all the time. I grew up like that and over time I learned I went to a ton of really important life lessons one of the first and most important was out the young skateboarder in Chicago really looked up. Some of these, the older guys were really good. I went to catholic school when I was younger and up becoming this punk rocker guitar playing far left skin tight. You know, skateboarding angry and no no flags. You know for the government, and then I go to this dude's house is really great. Capers got picture of Jesus on the wall and I merely scoff like I'm, I'm you know hi my the I was like. I think we would you like a christian or something- and
you know- and I was like, then why have a picture of Jesus and he goes. I just thought like a story about a do. Travel around helping people was kind of cool, and I went that's a good point. Wow I was I was like I was like. Well, maybe I don't really understand, maybe maybe this means something different other well that that's to me. Well, if Jesus was an indian man that you know had wooden beads and you know and was a hindu God, we would love him, it would be like Shiva or Vishnu. We would, we would think, he's the most amazing thing ever. It's the fact that if you look at what Jesus preached and what he was all about me seems pretty, our athletes about is the spiritual and and loving, and it's it's about. I mean it his his whole ideology that the Jesus of the Bible yeah and he was essentially about loving your brother and and treating people as if there you and but this this for me, like I bring this up because it was kind of formative
meant where all of a sudden I realized was my ideology predicated on assumptions was. I was I holding these views because other people told me to hold them. Did I actually understand that there were some positive things on the other side, and then I saw moved over to more of a center left position. Yeah- and you know now what were the reason I bring this up. As I looked, I watch that video. I tweeted this, the video George calling because Man George calling was it I did I used to watch videos might might my mom would put him on my mom's been a hippie liberal, far left all that stuff and you probably consider a conservative by today's. You know measures the way things have been going now. They look at you know, Kevin Hart. Is that a bad joke ten years ago get him out like? Could you imagine I I god for bid what would happen with George crowns routines today? They wouldn't they would they would be running all of his old routine, saying no, you got to ban them from the shelves. He literally call these people, the n word. Why was it that George calling go on stage and talk about how Republicans were DOM and how really
is crazy? He was clearly on the left, his whole life, and he said these things that by today's standards would be considered, conservative right and so for me, it's a weird thing to go from being on the far left as a as a young person is around like nineteen or twenty, I started to become more moderate and then to see them today being extremely offended, like people used to be in the fifties and sixties like that's regressive, yeah, that's trying to bring things back to the way they used to be with offensive. Note, nothing at puritanism and all these things- and I feel like yes, the the cliche is the modern, the modern left, whatever people call it like that, you know, capital, L, tribal left seems to be being a doctor, did not buy left
policy ideas, it's not about necessarily socialism. It's about identity. Arian is um. It's about policy based on your immutable characteristics and how you know like going back to the green new deal like in the bill. It talks about racial equity. What is that to do the environment, but what does that mean? Um? Well, equality would be like you, equal opportunity to people are allowed to try I, and if one succeeds, congratulations equity would be well, let's determine whether or not you are advantaged or privileged and then hold you back or push you forward. Based on these, these certain metrics, I suppose it's it's probably have with it- is that it not quantifiable. So this was actually something that really shocking to me. I was sitting with my niece, my my sister, my niece and my mom, and I show this image that people like to share. It's three people standing up by baseball offense and you there's a base with a baseball game as
really short person who can't see there is a medium sized person who can see a little bit on a very tall person who just stands right up above the fence. It says this is equality. Each of them gets one crate. Well, one crate isn't enough for the short guy and the two guys can already see that says this is equity and it shows the short guy getting you know three crates, so they can all see now, and so the problem is when it comes to someone's height sure we can understand, let's, let's, let's give the crates to the short guy, so he can see along with us. But how do you determine equity based on the color of someone's skin or there? You know like cut characteristics that can't necessarily be quantified right. So when a less under because you're Cortez pushes a bill Ford, that's purporting to be about the environment but includes racial equity clauses. Are we to assume that her ideology states that if you are not white, you are poor by death like it's a guarantee or do we have to assume that each individual has different advantages to cards to play and some are born wealthy? Some aren't and yes, there's system racism, but we can't make those assumptions right right. So this is this
to me one of the biggest problems I've been having as like a lifelong left, leaning visuals, who do I vote for big fan of Bernie Sanders for awhile, but then Bernie Sanders gets up on stage the debates and says white people, don't know what it's like to be poor well below. That's. Where is that? Where did go to West Virginia and visit the coal miners right? And you know, what's really weird, I saw one of Bernie's tweets that I looked at. I said I'll come on man. You know this is fucked up. He was talking about how much more money white men make then blah black women latino men. Then all these different things and what he didn't include was asian men. Well, because asian men make more money, but here's what I think a lot of people on the right Miss he said: pay equity, not pay equality. Okay, I think. Perhaps we should stop assuming they don't know what they're saying, because a lot of people in what they're saying is you know the the gender Cape, the gender earnings gap is Israel, but the gender pay gap. It can you know it's it's not
that if a man and a woman are both offered the exact same job exact, same experience in education, women tend to get a thing. It's like three to five percent, less and many people believe that's because they are less likely to negotiate just why you have like lean and tell him to be more. You know, tryingto be more sort of um, but it's not this. Seventy seven percent number that's, but there is an earnings gap. The median salaries of men and women are different. So when Bernie says white men make x more than these other demographics, he said in his tweet pay equity, not equality. He doesn't want fair pay for based on job he's, actually saying it doesn't matter what job you have. Everyone should be paid the same yeah, that's nonsense, but then you see Cortez releases on our website. If you're unwilling to work they'll provide economic security actually mine, I I believe they took it off the site right, but I think when they included in the bill that they want equity, not a quality
when they include on their website. If you're, unwilling, they'll pay you and when Bernie says equity as well, I think they're not talking about equality like I don't think you know the average American understands what they're actually saying is. You should be paid a flat rate period and when you're talking about the pay gap being different from men and women, we should clarify what you're saying essentially is that men choose different jobs and they work more hours and that's the reason why they make that much more money where it's zero dollars and seventy seven cents on the yeah there was a another study came out recently that said, that hours worked was almost the one hundred percent of the reason why men and women earn different at a median median salary. In some areas, women actually earn more than there's theirs, seven cities. I think this is an you again. You fact check me if you get, everybody thinks I'm wrong or whatever, but I believe it was seven cities where women out earned men by like seriously high numbers like up to twenty percent. So there's a lot of
issues when it comes to the pay gap and equality, but without going on in that area, I think what ends up happening is. You know I saw Bernie's and I responded to it by saying Good NEWS: Bernie is enshrined in law and I said it. I cited three examples of it's illegal to discriminate based on gender and then someone points out to meet him. He didn't say quality said equity that would imply doesn't matter what job you have. A petroleum engineer should earn the same as a store clerk at H and m. That's equity that just because you have an advantage because education doesn't mean should earn more than somebody else. You see I'm saying so. The fact is people that actually believe that that don't believe that were about that. But, first of all that's going to absolutely discourage people from trying to succeed. Why would you if you could get the same amount as c e o of Exxon, as you can working at twenty one forever, forever, twenty one or whatever, Abercrombie and Fitch? Why would you why would you try hard? Why would you exceed? What
would you succeed? Why would you excel? I think it's fair to point out some people. Would you know I don't I'm a little of it? What if there's? No, if there's no real, I mean other than social status. If there's no real positive consequences, I think social status might be one of the prime driving factors of most home. No man, not enough not enough to really encourage innovation, look, look and progress. I I I I can agree with that for sure, but I also think there's a, but there is a saying that I was told a lot that people don't get rich because they want money. They get rich because they're passionate something in the money comes after you know. They always say that the money comes after something like that and I point out every every day I take no days off. It's been a couple of here's with me not taking any days off. I work literally every day, full time right now in producing six year, videos everyday. Only one of them is a real seven days, a week, seven days a week, nonstop for two years straight fuck you doing yourself, I like it's fun and that's a thing. I'm not doing your drawing is a light in a tunnel. I do it because you know I see things
so for the most part on my main Youtube channel. I do one video every day at four hundred pm, which tends to be just like a news analysis piece, but I'm not perfect. Sometimes I get all hyperbolic and stuff. My second channel is me just ranting and you know not really swearing, but still just like heavy opinion stuff. I did because you know I see something I want explore it. I used to travel all the time when I worked advice. I was in all these different countries and all these dangerous places, not because I wanted to have a name for myself, not because I want to make money. I wanted to revolution. I want to know why it was happening. I want to talk to the people who are experiencing it, so I can. I can relate to people who say money isn't a motivator for sure, but I've also talked to pee in Scandinavia, who have told me they sort of give up at a certain point because I can in which country it was. It may have been Sweden or Norway, but these two women told me that, after, like seventy seven thousand dollars per year that acts like eighty percent of your income, so people just stop. They literally just
that's another proposition right. This is something else that's been discussed in terms of anyone who makes more than acts amount per year, taxing them over seventy percent. I agree with the progressive tax wholeheartedly. I disagree with a number of that high. What do you think it should be? I don't I don't know, but I will say we need more progressive brackets. We need to keep going, and you know I got to say maybe maybe at ten dollars million dot. Seventy percent does make sense, but I kind of leaned towards not really because it seems like man. That's a lot of money. That's a lot more! That's that's ridiculous amount. You know, I I think Steve Bannon said something like A5 in front of it or something. But I don't know I'm not an economist, but I do believe a progressive tax makes the most sense, and I can explain it to you if you want to hear it sure. So there was a study I believe was from Harvard you need. Seven
seven thousand dollars per year is may have been ten years ago in order to be middle class median in United States. That means, if you make seventy seven thousand you'll have vacation. You'll have insurance feel the car. You can raise a family. You can send him to school all that stuff, but you have nothing left over for savings. You have nothing left over for investments. If you make one hundred thousand dollars a year, you have twenty three thousand dollars left over for investing eventually at a certain point. If you only need seventy seven thousand dollars, if you're making ten million you've got nine, you know million nine hundred and ninety thousand, that you can invest and just be independently, wealthy and be rich forever. Now I have no problem with being wealthy. I have no. I have no problem with other people being wealthy and and living off of their investments and all that. But there is a point where you have to realize that the the the coalescing power, the monopolizing of power, is a really dangerous thing for any society, too few individuals holding too much power can destabilize. An economy can destabilize the country, the problem with communism, you snap your fingers and you put a centralized authority in place at least that's how it's been everything
time and then they hold all the cards and they can oppressor. They want the problem with lots. A fair capitalism is over time, which is why it's better in in a lot of ways over time, it eventually becomes a centralized oligopoly of a few corporations controlling everything which were kind of scene now. So all the press attacks can really do is slow. That process down which I need a good thing, but all really, I think, just looking at the system. Eventually, you end up kind of where we are we're. Six media companies control everything, and then you know some come. These are the biggest funders of certain politicians and corporations. Have too much power mean there? There is a the I I I I remember, reading a report or a story about how wealthy people have like three or four times more ability to enforce a politician than like the majority of the people in the country simply because paying for expensive dinners and lobbying earns you favors. You know, as Super Pacs, paying you know, guaranteeing funding for a for a politician and your favors, so it
you know, look if a million people tell me they want. You know x, but the people who are paying me like funding my campaign are paying him or well, who am I gonna, provide favors to and then once I'm done with my campaign run, I could go to job at their company yeah. These are problems so without going on to bigger right int, I think ultimately, a progressive tax could help slow the process down of special interests. Acquiring too much power eventually happens anyway, but the flat tax you're, basically saying at a certain point. I think you can just keep dumping more and more money into different investments, making more and more money and increasing your power exponentially and other people can't catch up to you and then power becomes too quick. I think in this country we try to look at success. Achievement is something that ever everyone striving for, and we don't want to put any restrictions on that we look at capitalism is the reason why everything is going so great over here. This is America, land of the free home of the brave go out there and kick
ass. We're not gonna saddle you down with debt, but it makes sense that, after a while as we're seeing today, but I don't mean what is what's the best way to do it in socialism is not gonna work. What what what does work? I think a mixed economy mix Khan at where we are right. Now right, a portion of income is paid in taxes for government programs for the right of that yeah for defense, and things like that. I just think we have a big problem with corruption. I think we've got bloat. I think we've got government agencies that, instead of reforming and kingdom down, we just slept more band aids. On top yeah, we got a festering wound, we're putting bandages over bandages. You know it's like a certain point. You gotta redo it. We also have systems that are in place that I mean in terms of like the way communities have always existed in certain communities, there's just poverty and crime, and no one does anything to fix it right and it seems to be that were more than willing to go to other countries in nation. Build were wounded more than willing
pump money into different countries, especially if they have natural resource is, but in our own country we're not mean the greatest resource is, of course, human beings and the best way to make America great or stronger would be to have less losers. Well, what's the best way to have less losers, to have more people succeed? What's the best way to have more people, succeed, give them more opportunity and chance to not be so stuck in a quagmire, not be trapped in a ghetto. This is yeah, so I believe we should allocate access from other areas to improve the way yeah certain areas. In that sense, I believe in socialism to a certain extent, like that's, I believe in it with with fire departments, I believe it with police department. I believe we should spend money that comes out of you know the public pool to fix things right. I look at New York. There are some neighborhoods that are really bad, some neighborhoods that are really good. Well, if we take access from the really great neighborhoods and use that to fix roads, pay for schools in porn
words, crime is one of the biggest correlation for crime is poverty. So if we can get better schools, we need to reform the school system straight up if we can get better hospitals, if you fix the roads, roads, we're doing a lot to reduce crime and and poverty and and a rising tide lifts all ships. Yes, so that's why hi? You know I do that's why I like Bernie Sanders, although I will. I said I make sure I tell people like he is a little too left for me. Yes, but when we, when we were looking, if we had in two thousand and sixteen I was like yeah bright as my guy, you know I like some parts of them, I'd like to be culturally. I like the right for the same reason in some ways that I liked Obama. Culturally, I mean I don't like the drone attacks. I don't like the attack on whistleblowers is a lot of aspects of it that I found very disturbing and distasteful and against the narrative of what we think of who he is. We think of him. Is this extremely articulate very well read, educated guy and you know good a good figure head in terms of like who the president is right right
and he was drawn bombing yeah four countries. His administration was claiming that military aged men who or what were enemy combatants, you know so one of one of the biggest area age men period right right. So it's I do carrying water, pails gets known up and they're, like is a combatant. You know rising, and so you know when it comes to Trump. What we doing missile strike in Syria, weapons Deal, Arabia, commando raids in Yemen, a little girl got killed and I've been, for the most part, very, very critical of him in any other administration who engages in regime change, foreign wars- and I got to say you know when it comes to domestic issues. I'm not that's, not my wheelhouse. When it comes two foreign policy stuff. Only a little bit like I've been to some countries that experienced a soft. But really you know on the ground cultural between you know. People is more my thing by know more about foreign policy than domestic and when I see Trump's foreign policy, I was very critical of it, but I will point out withdrawing from Syria. I'm a fan um. I understand a lot more.
Probably the average person does some of the issues surrounding Syria, Russia, the Qatar, Turkey pipeline and things. But typically I think it's you really a bad idea when the? U S involves itself foreign foreign interests and tries gauging in these regime paint change strategies to build allies, but one of the things that really blew my mind is: I saw survey, it was going around the inner on social media. So who knows if it's true that claimed the Democrats have a favorable opinion of George W Bush? You know something something of that effect and there in retrospect, like yeah like today, they pulled them they're like oh, he was good and there's a video of him like giving a piece of candy to Michelle Obama, and everyone was like was going viral on people were laughing about, I'm like not stay hold hands, that's crazy! That guy's awful like that guy. But what what happened and and then, when Trump announces he's going to pull troops out of Syria, everybody oppose it like the media, saying it's wrong and you've got a lot of like mainstream people left and it's wrong, and I'm like it is. We mean, like that's crazy to me. Like you know,
all of my activist friends, we've never been in favor of that stuff. We've always opposed. That's always been the left position, and now I'm seeing people who claim to be on the left support multi national businesses as private businesses, doing whatever they want, meaning like social media like like dude, you know Saudi Arabia. I think it's a a saudi prince is one of the biggest investors and twitter yeah yeah, and so it's like there there've been a these of people who have gotten letters that they violated pakistani law. I mean they send screenshots great screenshots can be faked, but they've been been a couple. People have been like for some reason: Twitter decided to inform me of this and then. It's it's it's a multinational! What, let's? Let's talk about the the Aber algorithmic apocalypse? What's what's a winning that you've got a platform where our public discourse happening, where the left has repeatedly said that Russians used it to manipulate our elections, where one of its these investors is saudi, Saudi, prince or something that effect and they're banning people of certain
who oppose a certain ideological bent. That sounds like a democratic crisis right, if, if this is where the Publix, if you you know, you said, is no longer in the conversation you know he's banned from Twitter even got millions of followers. Don't talk about him anymore is off. Twitter. Twitter really is important. The president is there. So if you start removing people, you've got foreign interests who have a stake in Twitter is doing the yeah. They can seriously influence our elections, yeah and and and they they are, but also but but I'll move into what most really crazy New York Times reported. There's a group that false flagged, the Republicans in Alabama with fake twitter they made to convince the media. Russians were propping up the campaign of Roy Moore, so basically, this out towards their times is all fact this is they see the documents they reported it that democratic operatives smeared the engage in a false flag camp
Jane to make it appear, like the Russians, were propping up Republicans and the national media in the. U S ran with it. How that's not a crime is beyond me. That's interfering in Elections- and we know it on this group- is still being cited. Their smearing tulsi gabbard right on NBC News. Article came out saying that Russians are you have taken notice of her campaign, are promoting it same group still running the story. Do you know how that's not ah crime? His mind belong to me, but the New York Times reported it. So at this point, like I mean that I think we have to be aware that there's so much manipulation going on right now from almost every angle, oh yeah, some I mean and what's hilarious, is that people look at what's going on with russian troll factories, and you know the way they're trying to influence our elections that it's particularly egregious
where we do that shit totally plus and I'm pretty sure we we learned about the US doing it well before we learned Russia was doing it and I'd be willing to bet the. U S started it. It's just the whole thing is so you can't pay attention to all of it. That's part of the problem I mean. Maybe you can if they is what you're doing seven days a week and even you are, will probably struggle to keep up. But, like me, I can't one of the reasons why I brought you in here when you you- and I that conversation when the first thing I realized right away, is okay. I could have you coach me like we talked about that, but I'm not going toe. I'm like I'm not going to get it all. I'm gonna have to like study it for a long time, and I don't have the resources to do that is part of the problem that I had with that one podcast with Jack. I just don't have the resources and they built yes, so I think it be fair to point out. You know, like you, tube criticism too, because in talking about censorship, I think a lot of people
immediately assumed I'd, come on here and start waving. My arms in there screaming their bias against conservatives, which I think twenty did, but you too is a bit different youtube. Does it has demonetized LGBT content and Youtube has said that topics are not suitable for all advertisers because it deals with sexuality. They have target many left wing channels. There are a lot of non mainstream left wing outlets. What you mean is demonetized de monetized or sometimes outright ban, and I think for demons, not Ising. I think they've made a state was the the policy there. It's essential things that are political correct. If they made that statement, I had one of those houses. I was gonna didn't interject that they've also banned are not banned, but demonetized people are ex that extensive, the people that smoke weed on their channels or totally I actually researched video game channels that have an unknown reasons, just stop having monetization on their channel two,
and that is the problem of ultimately them having this incredible power where they really there's. No there's not real open competition in terms of like another, about like a parallel competitor, I don't think there will be really, but but here's the thing I I think you took down a bunch of really bad things. I'm gonna give ah very important shadow to Monkey Jones, who was wrongly terminated from Youtube for highly dubious reasons. He is a dark dark, dark comic. He had hundreds of thousands of followers. He made jokes about things like school shootings, very dark stuff, but it was clearly mocking some of these people was mocking, Elliot Rodger, he's making jokes about it and, in fact some of those videos were approved manually for monetization, but for some reason to just wipe them out one day gone. So I set up a new channel and said: okay, you know we're not gonna do that anyway, that matter they got rid of them. He's a fact of lead off of Youtube and he was like
he's a well known funny guy. He wasn't breaking the rules, he wasn't, but they still believe deleted his channel. So I I bring him up because I think it's worrisome that, yes without an alternative, your career is wiped out in a second with no recourse and no reason. Why and the response they give. You is it's our platform, yeah and you'll, hear people say: oh, but a private business. They can do what they want sure, but their monopoly. We've got have restrictions on that yeah yeah. But I have a question. Ask your because I've had this conversation with some friends of mine, and this came up and like this is, I guess the devil's advocate to this question, because this happened with Myspace Myspace still exists yeah, and there are people that had millions of followers on that platform. Are they owed something by my space because my space failed and their their accounts no longer have the clout that they once had? No, no less of a Francis. I give you two failed tomorrow. This could put the pie sue them because they made bad business decisions and not different issue. That's it in a subtly different. I know my sense that I had it. I see
I see what you're saying a twitter account like they're, not banning someone's. I p address from using twitter dot com and going to see slaps real Donald Trump and see what he's saying right, but listen. Your myspace failed because of alternatives. Facebook became more prominent. There was an option and the other issue is Monkey Jones followed the rules he was. He was told by you to this. You can you can do it said you got it and then one day they just wiped him out, and so then they'd never gave any explanation. Uh. I don't believe so, and it was really weird because and uh it's been a little while, since I went over the story, but there was a video he posted. That was like a music video making fun of Elliot. Rodger he's that's cool. That means your guy. It existed on different channels on other other, prominent channel existed and they banned him, and then he brought up like. Why was it bad on mine? But this one was approved and then I could do later. They banned the other one. They copyright struck it. The issue here is: if there was an alternative to Youtube,
you are, you can operate, I'd be on it right. So one of things I'll give a shout out. I've been using mines. Am I India yeah, I'm actually having build the good to go. Yeah yeah owns it hi sailor, SAM Altman, Altman Altman bill up is coming on soon. Well, I I made a concerted effort after that podcast to reach out to a bunch of different people and try to expand this conversation. I won't have the guy from gap to the guy. That's got a gap gaps in in Turkey. You know a gab has been murky in terms of content, but really- and I don't think I don't- I don't think so so I did it- I I research is a little bit. If you look at their Wikipedia page, it's simple sourcing: they are, there was a study done yep that found. I think they only have like five percent of the posts are considered to be hate speech, whereas twitter is like two dot three or something so gab is predominantly not hate speech, not much more than twitter, and when you consider that we're looking percentages, you can actually see that Twitter's hate speech is in millions and gaps in the tens of thousands. But gab is running. You know
the media nonstop. Yes, man. I think when it comes to Youtube. I actually I actually trust them. I I do. I really do. I think the reason they took a monkey is because the the potential for a pr backlash over his kind of content was so great. They said we don't care and it's unfair. It's wrong think they're wrong to do it, but but you understand the motivation, I understand the motivation and I actually think you too does more to protect free speech on the internet and a lot of these other companies do when you and I'll give you feel ugh ugh. One good example is, first of all, when you demonetized, you still aren't you to read revenue without you, so Youtube still will like they're trying to pay you. They want the money, but the odds with star on a cot, getting banned from Patrie on Patrie on banned him because they said you used a naughty word on you to eight months ago. Youtube doesn't Kerry said. The word right is that the parkway called the all the yes all right that
right and weird you didn't care. You did said it's it's fine on a platform that that's fine, that's fine, Tracy the context right the context which was use it to it. Just takes thirty. So listening to ago, all I see what he's doing, even if it's kind of a clunky right use of the word. I he's not using it in a race ifs, racist way. He was trying to you know. Actually this is our he's trying to show how stupid they are. But can we talk about the bias on Twitter with Sarah Jeong three years was posting Anti white racist like mean spirited awful things, and the excuse was. She was using the language of her oppressors yeah. Well, we think Sargon was doing yeah. He was using their language against them exactly they hire at the times. Yes, that's that's terrifying and there was a huge backlash and I want to take this offer to point out media matters there was and that ain't nothing went around the alternative influence network lying like there was a media matters wrote about it. I politely reached out to the person who did and they were
once was, I hope, a bird poops on your head and it gets in your eyebrow and you smell like farts. That was a warrant. That's that's the response. They gave me what yeah. I said. I just wanna give you a heads up. There's a lot, that's wrong in this report. It's not true. I don't hold these beliefs, I've never met this individual, and that was that was the response to the literal response was, I hope, a bird poops on your bird poops on you and it falls in your eyebrow and you smell like like dirty farts or something. Then, when I like, I so yeah I I mean I got ahold of their fucking typewriter or keyboard, and, and you know, I'm not the guy who started it was at political on and he any set up on stage. Fake news is predominantly it's. He said it's only. It's only a phenomenon of the right to the left doesn't engage in conspiracies and fake news, which is nonsense. Of course they do, and I afterwards I said, let me ask you then 'cause one of your writers respond
me in this way and he's like I don't I don't know it. I don't think about it and yeah. I can't respond and it's like you know, walked off and I was like you know. I want to circle back the gap because yeah I get what you're saying that the volume is lower and that there's less heat. Well, it's I read right, but what do you? What is your opinion of it, though you were you caught we kind of got side tracked all right, it's I don't! I don't know I I can agree with the the general notion, yeah yeah yeah g of, if it's legal to loud right, then I would. I would argue that you know what Jack is trying to do with Twitter. I don't see him personally, but what twitter is trying to do is what create, like a comfy patted me on room for the kids to hang out it now. The real world is harsh yeah. I think what they're trying to do- and I don't want to speak for him, but I think they're trying to engineer the conversation to be more polite and civil says who exactly you know whose, whose definition that's a good point- and that's and that's That'S- I see see so many of these people who, just they power power and unaccountable. Well, also, you don't recognize the consequences of telling people what they can and can't do and that it's this is a very
slippery slope. You're running up a grease, tell yeah, and, and if people don't like it, they don't like it and well the the thing is like when you see something like if, if everything was just open, what with the conversation be like, if there was no banning- and there was nothing- it was just everything with real free speech- you would have I mean if there was, it was impossible. Let's put it this way, it was impossible to ban someone from any social media platform, whether it's you to or twitter or Instagram. What would the conversations look like? How much different would they be and would we maybe have a healthier way of adjusting? I think it would be worse worse because I could, I could be a temporary or in the long run, may be temporary, but there believe it's called the online inhibition effect, basically
to to be anonymous online sure and the and the in the distance makes people that no problem being their worst self yeah, and so I can understand what twitter wants to do. They say: hey. We need to figure out how we stop people from being mean all the time right, because twitter is is a hellscape of just mean people saying nothing mean things, but it's also so again, because they're anonymous and because it's possible, but then look Alex Jones can say a bunch of really awful things. It is right to do so should be bent he shouldn't. If so it does, it does Alex Jones. I'm not a kid, don't exactly keep him because I don't watch his show, but if, if he goes on to attorney, says something that's deems to be false should be banned for that. No, if he, if he challenges a journalist, should be banned for that. No, because let me tell you because he says things about me that aren't true. I don't think you should be right. I think in any saying the things about me, and I don't think you should be better, I think Alex. I think we should talk. Have a conversation. He's upset he's upset
that and I get it in certain ways I get it and he thinks I took a shot at him and I get it and I probably did- and I shouldn't have so here's here's the thing that my point is. I don't think you should be banned and it's he's doing it at me. Yeah, like I mentioned those people occupy who lie about me all the time time posted the most ridiculous lies about me. I still still think it should be banned. The thing is, if you band, and then someone opposes them, but then someone opposes the people who oppose them and they want them banned, and then you have this fucking war back and forth and instead sort of fighting bad ideas or incorrect ideas with correct or good ideas. Now you just have people pressing ban hammers left you're, just trying to figure out who the majority is, so you can side with the biggest group, but when you're trying to ver the signal and you're trying to get something that supports your ideology, whether it's right or left. So here's the thing with Jones, though, if the people on the left argue that he is making the platform worse and horrible. I understand that and I recognize well that's unfortunate.
This is the real world and sometimes people say things you don't like, but more importantly, a lot of people argued that when he when said that he said something about sandy hook, which again I haven't seen the videos but they've they've they've he's been sued. They said that he said and it never happened. So so what is fake news to be banned? While many people were saying yes book needs to ban a fake news, but think about what that means. It means you're not out to be wrong. Okay, because fake news doesn't mean you did it on purpose. More importantly, you're not to be stupid. Well, here's another thing again in defense of Alex. One thing that Alex did do is is in the future. After after he was done, saying the things that he said about sandy hook. He then said it definitely happened so so he corrected his course and there's no. Is there a path for redemption when you correct your course and if there's not, what are we doing? 'cause we're not treating people like you beings, then, whether it's Milo or whether it's anybody, I
start a cut you off and like path to redemption, is so fucking critical. Yes, so let me tell you, I went to Sweden, people claim things were happening in Sweden a couple years ago. I decided to go check it out for some reason, a bunch of people believe that I push them far. I can write far right wing conspiracy when actually exactly person was it. You push the conspiracy theory or person, so so so so, basically, you had Donald Trump's a less night Sweden. As soon as he says this, the media goes wild. My friend hi my friend Emily, who, who worked with me on an off set we're like do. We should just go to Sweden and just like walk on film stuff and make a video about what we experience we had to go almost immediately. It's reported. We found nothing. We found the neighborhoods were actually very nice substantially nicer than Chicago, but we did find there was an increase in crime is very tepid, for some reason
well are claiming that, like I'm pushing conspiracies or something right, I was gonna go somewhere that, but I kind of lost my train of thought. Oh I okay here we go when I was there. Joey salads is a big youtuber reached out to me on Twitter. Saying, hey, I'm here too. Let's meet up, got really angry because Joey salads made a video, I think a couple years ago, where he staged a bunch of black guys Dick bring a car to make. It seem like these. These neighborhoods were you know. Black people were going to destroy Trump car and it was like it was this very racist. It's awful horrible yeah he's big youtuber, and so he reached out to me and I got really pissed like dude you're, fake news, you're a racist and I was like- and I I starts Kasson Adam I was like this is like. I know, that's not normal for you, but I, but afterwards gonna realize something. Joey made a mistake he reached out to me it was polite. He was honest. I think you did something really really bad. If I tell him if I cuss him out, if I just be mean to him, what's he going to do the only people who will accept him if the only people are going to be nice to him or the actual racists will then he's going to go
with racists. He needs a path to redemption, so I apologized, and I said that was wrong. I should have done that. I should I should be going to hear you out and I should give you an opportunity to better yourself. Otherwise you won't to meet up with him and talk to him and I- and I think he made a huge mistake. I think we do is wrong. I think it was self motivated. I think it was money motivated, but I think none of that matters all that matters. Is you tell him you do this one more time you're out you're out with the wolves, but if you you agree to do the right thing and your will and your sincere then okay, good for you. Thank you. I think that's got to be a part of the conversation yeah I mean we. I think this idea of just banning people for life, but letting people out of jail after they commit murder and right they can reenter society. It's it's kind of mean it's still it's hard for them for a long time. Yeah it's on show it's not easy, but we're saying that there's a path to redemption, but what ends up happening is they create parallel economies? They create parallel networks and causes more division. More anxiety, like you see you see, these uh
native social networks emerge because people get banned, so they all move to one place which is back to gab yeah. So, but I think gab is mostly I gotta be honest. I don't surf gab. I've read what these people upset about it, but at this point I don't trust a lot of the media. I don't and that's not unique for me most KEN's have I'm single cab, or you mean everything what they've said about gap in the mail every set of everything right I mean what what your opinion of gas. I mean, you see that you don't have a clear opinion of it. My my opinion of gap is that they do allow. There's, there's a lot more people with extreme views, simply because it's legal right, so they go there naturally right, but based on what I've read about it from like actual reports, it's not substantially worse than twitter, but it does allow them as a big difference right, you can go on twitter. You could get away with it for a while a gap, you just going gap and say a bunch of crazy stuff, and unless you break the law there have been accusations. Leveled against gap they've actually dragged their feet on getting rid of illegal things. Like calls for violence, you know, but
but there are some things that you can get kicked off for like doxing, interesting race lines yeah. So it's not the wild west, but it's wilder. But you know what the me that these people and I went to the media. I specifically mean these digital New York based outlets for the most part. They they like to say things like you know that guy who shot at synagogue, yeah horrible, just disgusting, but they say Gabby user, so one so a Gabby was uh. He was twitter. User right was on twitter, drank water. You drink water yeah. You know well drink water, Hitler, Hitler Boom there. It is! But it's it's! It's it's crazy! It's like come on. Man yeah, you know, but I, but I will recognize right now that you at this point gap is it's yeah. If, if gonna go on there, the media is going to accuse you of every single name in the book. I'm sure you got it. You know so. I've had conversations with people in here with a just a immediately start, throwing out these these descriptions of what cabins and what gap stands for and like okay, I mean
with Barry. Weiss is like right, I was gonna, say and some politicians yeah that was off. That's all. It is a Wolf Wolf which part of the the tulsi Gabbert Toady. I you know, I see the did you see what yeah Jimmy about it. I was laughing the whole time, Jimmy Door, Dar Door. I like to he's fucking great right and the way he did it in front of a live crowd, yeah, yeah and and but but here's the thing I got to say like I'm sorry to bury. It really did sound like even what the word meant, because if you say what we're I mean I'll tell you what I think it means. I won't ask someone to check the feed first. You know so it's like she also she's also been dragged because she did a story where she used a satire tweet from Anti far or something I don't. I don't necessarily so she's had her share, but you know
I've been busted. Doing that too she's are you. I got caught with the anti for a fake anti for a post on a wall that was like our lives, a troll, so many so many troll that. But you know that that's that's. What's so crazy is that things are so blurry it's hard to see, troll, sometimes yeah, and so that there lies the big problem. I mean my brother might be one of the most tory yes, not in the towards the wrong word, because he he like kinda, hides in the shadows, but he's done some my brother cloned, a well I can which website he keep cloned a website right, the actually the yes men recently to smoking pot just copied perfectly, and he wrote an article about how a new strain of marijuana was discovered cannabis Australia's. He said that he was the d
at the University of Sydney or something like that who is dating POP star Meghan Trainor, just the most ridiculous thing and that he said we need to find a female plant. So far as we have its groundbreaking, it's come it's so was so he did this for a couple of very clever thing. He bought a main name. That was something like com dash gas dot info. That's the! U R, L! He then created a subdomain. So so it's like you know, just hypothetically CNN dot com dash guessed. The average person just sees CNN dot com. They assume it's real. I know how he shared it, but he makes this whole. It's so ridiculous man I got to say if you thought it was really got a bridge to sell you high times picked it up in fifty thousand shares breakthrough. New strain of marijuana is covered, my just laughing the whole time, and I was like what you do my do. Like my opposite, you know I I try to be honest to the best of my ability. I you can you know. I think you know people accuse me of being a liar. That's not fair! I could be wrong for sure, but I I try my best to be
rational. My brother, on the other hand, is like I was making a ridiculous as possible. He made another video where and it's crazy because he price to make sure people it's over the top. He made a video where it's a van getting pulled over. It looks like a police dashcam and then the cop walks up to the car checks. The guys license walks back and the driver releases pot on a balloon. An air points with tanks stash like he's, disposing his drugs of helium balloons, so they fly away and then the cop runs off firing guns edit. This thing got hundreds of millions of views. It was on Facebook every other day like he made it four years ago or something- and I saw on Instagram like to to go and I was like dude. I showed him people think it's real like it's. It's the craziest wait, eight eight yep, you know yeah, I don't know so, there's so much up stuff. That is real. It's so hard differentiate. What I mean hold on like, let's, let's throw some shade at high times like when they did this you they said they. They when corrected the article and saying there's a hoax. They said we wanted to call
for verification, but we thought the story was too hot to pass up. That's a really good example, but that's a really good example of Covington. It's a really good example of what these news organizations do this high times they were probably barbecue out of their fucking mind when they wrote that- and I say, like they're, not they're, not the back actions of great journalism. We don't hold high times on a pedestal. Next, the New York Times not to be disrespectful, and I respect the publication, but the New York Times is the paper of record at the same time, if it's your job and you're writing stories in a specialty like come on man, but look this is this is there's there's two big things that affect media. That think are. Are worrisome Covington exemplifies, really well that people just wrote? They don't do any research at all right and it was. It was all wrong and even watch the videos, because you can see in the first video not only that, but what's even more egregious as they did this several days right afterwards and they were still like the bill. Maher thing yeah
very unfortunate, but it's it's all avoidable. If you're going to discuss something and you gonna, do it in a public forum like that, and you know about it in advance, this is not like you're on a podcast ad libbing, you, you say something in you misspeak. This is in this plant. The other thing that worries me greatly is what we see with with a learn to code right yeah. So this an NBC reporter is it wasn't as big twitter thread about how Twitter needs to take action against these harassment campaigns and they refused to do it. The next day he writes an article citing an activist about how far right campaign is sending death threats to journalists and twitter isn't doing anything about it, and after that he starts posting about how he's getting death threats a day after that Twitter announces they'll take action. So what do we see here, this guy called fraction couldn't get? It done, wrote an article slanting it as a far right campaign against journalists. Twitter decides take action now. People are getting banned for tweeting, learn to code there's, so many people do, you think, are making these critical decisions.
It's a handful. I mean I can't imagine Twitter's got a massive staff but like what you think they have a huge staff. What couple one hundred well, there's one hundred offices and roughly three thousand five hundred employees at the okay is way more than I thought I was yeah. That's what I was thirty five offices, but how many of those people are operating in the bubble during the ideological bottle, but it's not just that. You know you ban Kathy Griffin, he's a celebrity with millions of followers. They don't care about, Alex Jones Alex Jones. Also, that's right! It's complicated! I mean I can't really understand why he's well he's more polarizing, but he's alright, very faint I'll come on Kathy Griffin showed a photo of Donald Trump. With this you know, with his head cut off, which is even ignoring you know, something really crazy. The guy who wrote all the articles dem, adding, I don't see demand it's may be unfair. Oliver Darcy
goes on CNN and says it was media pressure that got Jones Band, he's the guy who repeatedly wrote about it. He was the guy Jones confronted about it. Yes, Oliver Darcy interviewed me in two thousand and sixteen about a video I made where I it's worrisome that Twitter is banning people for their political ideologies. Oliver Darcy enter he. I I I don't interview anybody read an article about my video. This is a this is this is what you're my journalism, business insider? Who says it's really interesting thing. Can we write about your take on what's happening and then two years later is talking how his media pressure got Jones Band? It's like a weird one hundred and eighty, you know wow yeah, so I'm not trying to be disrespectful to his eye. I know him somewhat in passing, but I will say there's a certain point where I think it's unfair to accuse a journal list of advocating for something simply for covering it. But then he went on CNN and said it was media pressure that got him banned and I'm kind of like okay, you have to realize at that point you were the one who led that charge. You know right and you know yeah, I don't. I don't care if you like him or not, banning him forward for do
obvious reasons. Just creates huge problems. It shows your bias, but just saying it that way to dislike. When Hunter S, Thompson spread the rumor about Ed Muskie being on AI, but and then he went on the Dick Cavett show it's hilarious clip and he goes actually. There was a rumor, it was a rumor about him being are big began and I know because I started the rumor. You know I mean that's exactly that's kind of the same thing: yeah, it's like yeah, you, you caused it yeah yeah. You spread that rumor. But you know there's another thing too is Patria, unbanned, Lauren Southern think like a year and half two years ago and when she got banned, I don't know if you know what happened, but she she went in the boat in the Mediterranean and what was that she did something with the migrants she did. She did a protest action with. I believe it was generation, identity which are, I don't know how to describe them. 'cause people like to throw labels around, but they are
european nationalists and I you people have called them nationalists. But again I don't know enough about their group, so I think it's fair to say that that might be the case. Forgive me for being ignorant for the most round, but their ideology. I know people are gonna. Tear me apart. She gets on a boat, they go up to one of these one of these migrant vessels. That does they say to search rescue vehicle. But that's been a point of debate and she like is a flare in the air and then she she says on the stream like get in front of them get in front of him, but I believe she never did Jack Conti Banter and they were like what you're doing may have caused loss of life. Your band, a lot of people then start to point out that there's a website called it's going down, and this is a you know, consider the far left extremists site. One of the articles was teaching people or advocating for pouring concrete on train tracks to disrupt the rail. The strains of composite loss of life
so Jack, so uh, I saw this and I thought this is really fascinating. I'd like to know why Patri on band southern and why they don't take action. In this regard, I reached out to Jack Conti. I tweeted that he said he would call me on the phone, and I said you know like to understand your decision making how this came to be, what brought you to the attention of Lauren. What about this? He ended up banning it's going down and then they wrote an article titled TIM Pool and the alt right get. You know it's going down, banned from Patreon something and that's been cited like Jimmy Dore. Had it on his show and a bunch of like just want you, of course, not right, and I said, listen man I didn't advocate for them to be banned. I don't want anyone band right. I just want to know what their decision making process was, and this was the thing that is going viral among people on Twitter. Who are you know asking about this, and so now I get accused of campaigning to get them back. Just like you know, Oliver Darcy was with with with with Jones, but well and then immediately they slap that distinction on you as soon as
just calling someone alright to it's so strange how you know uh, if you know, but all in the world stand up comedy used to be progressive. Yeah Broll like this, like weird coffee shop, type rooms, it was all comedy. They don't even use that term anymore right because it's so it's coccyx and I try to avoid saying altered. We sell turned of media. All the time in this is happened over the course of just a couple years and the the the thing is shifted and its move in an evolving and morphing so quickly. You want to know, what's really crazy. For years on my Wikipedia page, it claimed that I invented a Zeppelin Zeppelin like a blimp, yes, yeah, it's fun right well. Wikipedia said I was Bryan Callen's brother for a decade. Here's the thing when I went to Sweden, I specifically stated. Let me let me let me back up Paul Joseph Watson of in force put out a call, and I challenge any journalists to spend a weekend in Malmo and I'll cover your costs, everybody's bombarding him say:
oh pay me pay me and he's kind of just ignoring it. People are threatening to sue him. You better pay. You promised. I had already set up a go fund me for the project before I believe it was before. Yes, I made a video about it, saying Donald Trump said: Xy and Z. We are going to do the story when I saw he made. This call, I think, was actually Emily. Who noticed it? I said: hey I'll, do it and he was like to be. I think that something like I was just taking the piss but yeah sure I'll, send you a donation, and I laughed- and I was like hey man I'll take you know if he wants to throw money at my golf on me. Here's what ends up happening is people then claim I was. I went there because politics watching challenge challenge me not true. He donated about nine percent of our total fund that we raised and I was already planning on going there Wikipedia. There was a challenge on my Wikipedia page where someone said you wrote: Temple went there because of Paul challenged. That's not true. What's your proof, this Youtube video from Temple where he says we
already arranged this we're not going here because of politics of Watson, the response, that's not reliable source. Someone came back with the role. Of course you know it was a Huffington Post article that quoted my Youtube Video house, but I don't understand why? Couldn't you just take my word for it? Why did you have to get Huffington Post to just quote me that was currently areas, so I you're not that's fine, I'm not, I guess so far. So the reason I bring this up is is what happens then, if you're, conservative and a bunch of friends who work for various news organizations all at the same time right ten articles saying Joe Rogan is all right now on Wikipedia ten article pop up immediately saying this is a fact: ten different organizations have written it and there is in your in your page and the crazy thing is the: U K does all the time. You know they call various personalities all right, they call Sargon the cult. Thank you. Let him just go to a computer and look up. The phrase means White
Nationalist, NEO confederate it's like literally about a white Ethno state. These people have denounced this and you know it's like with sort of a. It was a really fascinating phenomenon, patrion, where all of a sudden these left wing outlets said Sargon was banned for going going after the right right and I'm like hold on you've written in the past that he was all right. Well, you, when you say you like the media is not the one desires, organizations same organizations, but did authors. Well, I don't want to- I don't want to, but not the journalists I I will leave towards. I believe yes, because it's it's it's, but but it's so so whenever it's convenient to just throw throw that there are some people who write. The problem is, if I may, if I name these people, they're gonna they're gonna point their pens in my direction and then all these things are going to swing at me and the other thing too is I don't want to. I don't want to get them. It's not important anyway. What's really important is the actual reality of how it was done there are. I really wanted this organ
station, it's one of the prominent well known, but they repeatedly write stories that are just so over the top. I roll my eyes and I'm like, and I will I will say the Huffington Post you know is other organization that wrote like how God what was it some, this guy wrote about Nazis on steam as a nazi problem and very clearly like anybody was like the video game right right, just because you use because apparently he was referencing, a very small like here's. What happens? Okay, I don't know too much about this. I know there was criticism in the journalism space around what he did, but it's like you find three guys on Twitter for saying something: they quote: tweet him and say boom. In fact, like you find one guy who says you know, I just plain: don't like this group and they'll be like up nazis. Don't like this group and I'll write a big story about it. 'cause I found one tweet. You know I mean so. Apparently this guy in the Huffington Post wrote a story about how people on gab we're presenting really disgusting recipes for food, and I'm
I'm wondering what's newsworthy about random gap, users Mosta Cholly recipe. Oh, I saw that it was hilarious, but but but then again their comedy article yeah an opinion piece, but it just calling people assholes, but the guy who wrote that especially their senior editor senior writer who travels and covers news on the ground. Why but put hold on? Isn't that funny or isn't it interesting? I mean it's if it's just some shady recipes, like the only thing that's odd about it, is that it's a gab shady recipe 'cause. It was just as shitty recipe online, but that's my question was on medium, which, by the way we can't leave without talking about Jeff all well, we can get into that. Let's talk about it, but if it was on medium, if someone said like look at these dummies with their terrible fucking recipes, it would still be most is interesting, but it's flavored more by you're allowed to mock them because it sure ab, but but it's it's almost like they're, uneducated,
no VOX's ran an article claiming that people who hold all trite views are like eleven million or some huge number, and that's just like it's a cert. That's not eleven million Americain about you defined all right as being some sort of white supremacists. I will quote the associate. Okay, as I say, to press the AP guidelines are that all right means we white nationalist. Can I ask you this? We find that. How does it why Richard Spencer is the man who popularized the term so he's not going to coined it, but he popularized it and he is a white nationalist. So I mean you know if you want to be a part of his movement, there are certain things that are attached to it and other other alt right. People have written huge things about what it is. So the AP said these are guidelines and I'll defer to the AP. I have a lot of respect for them there you go, you know. So if these news organizations there a
Willamette weekly this is this, is it's it's a kind of man? I just really I I I work for vice. I was actually the odd one, I'm one of the the key reasons. Vice news exists and I look back on it now. It might be kind of sad how they've written some these, mostly such ridiculous articles, I'm really proud of a lot of stuff they've done, but I I quit I quit when I got an offer from fusion and fusion is, it was ABC Univision, joint venture when I, when I started there, they said we won't be partisan for some reason, good to go far left and are pushing in a lot of things that I thought were wrong. They told me to in effect, lied right so that that the thing I bring up is I I just have such disdain for these these news organizations and how they the EU's definitions that suit their needs to get the clicks. They want your altar right today, you're, not all right, tomorrow's yeah right. The click thing is an
an issue right. How much of an issue is that journalists are essentially fighting for their lives, because newspaper is almost dead. It's online publications or trying they're trying to get subscriptions like I subscribe to several different right news online public that used to be newspapers, but the last time I picked up an actual newspaper. It's so much so that I felt like I had a joke about reading something in the paper and like turning the pages, I almost felt like I'm a liar for doing the joke about turning the page of a paper. I remember the last time I did that everything I've read is either on a tablet or on a laptop or on do you know the Gellman amnesia effect is no you're an expert in MMA you're, like one of the foremost experts. Have you ever read a news article about anime that was so wrong? Okay, so that same paper you're reading it you see that story
now how wrong it could be. You turn the page and there's a story about Syria, and you know I didn't know that right. Why would you forget how wrong they were? The reason I bring this up. Is that analogy you turn the page. Nobody does you click the link right right, but let's talk about clicks. One of the things we talked about the other day is traffic assignment. So I know you asked me that they're fighting for their lives. It's a serious issue, but I just like to point out their lives never existed in the media space. Please explain because that was one of the more most illuminating aspects of our conversation on the phone yeah it's publicly known, but not talk about it lot that these media organizations, mostly these digital new start ups, don't actually get a lot of use. So what they do is it's called traffic assignment. There's a company called com score that tracks the the viewership the unique views these sites have. If you're trying to attract investment and say we get twenty million views per month, they're going to say that's cool, but this site gets sixty. What do they do? Well there
some sites. This is, according to variety, modern farmer, dot com. What is that? I have no idea. I've never heard of it. There are many sites which you've probably seen where it's like the top twenty five celebrities, who you know, mess up their makeup. Yes, you click the page and I'll. Show you a photo in order to the next photo. You gotta click the next page. That's that way they turn you. One person in twenty five unique views are twenty five. You don't want a unique, then a company, like vice, for instance, will buy the assignment of your traffic and a tribute to themselves. So in the Comscore numbers come out, it will say all of those use from those bait sites are actually vice. That's fucking, crazy. There was ah controversy a bit again, I'm quoting variety here I don't sued, but variety said that their traffic went down seventeen percent because someone they were buying traffic assignment from was like going through term oil and and being check shaken up and another
one of their traffic Simon partners switched to. I think, like you know, got sold at NBC or something so so what ends up happening? Well, I can say a little bit: there was a company that was dominant digital news outlet. I knew someone there who was decently high up, who told me our ebony is contemplating whether or not we should engage in traffic assignments to inflate our numbers, and I said: don't do it like that's wrong and they said, but we need investment. So I wonder if it's a fraud, yes, but if Comscore is, is just open. The numbers together and I go to you and say according to Comscore, our network brings in sixty million. I didn't lie, that's all true! Yes, that's true! So here's what happens. These companies get massive investment. They don't actually generate enough clicks or enough money that and once the investment runs out, those jobs never existed. Those were those
were padded by investors, so God that everything collapses it seems, like god I mean it does to me yeah. That seems like if that was, if you were doing that with uh some tech stock, yep yeah right, we up your nose or something like that. You know I was old by another individual who was at one of the digital companies that he felt like what we were seeing was akin to breeze problem that extends the morgue back securities. Yes, from dozen eight, that's a better analogy right when he said he said think about this. You had all of these big companies is big best, hundreds of millions of dollars, two hundred million dollars invested into the digital media outlets because there these numbers, but underneath there nothing there, and that is crazy. So, if you're investing money, so if you've got some some cash you've worked your your off and you've generated a lot of money and you like look we're gonna get into the digital space. We
we have a website that has ninety million clicks and we're going to take that and then you find out, you just got fucking hosed. How is that not fraud? Because buyer? Beware: well, ' 'cause, there's laws that legalize fraud. You know here's the thing right! Is it a lot, but it looks like when it's an interesting loophole: it's not fraud because they don't like you. They don't deceive you. You had every opportunity to look at those numbers and see where they came from to understand what their network was. Ok! Well, that may be the case, but the act of doing it in the act of the fact that you can do it and really you're getting she. It's fucking crazy, easy! Shady I'll tell you what are something else too, and I say this with the utmost respect for Shane Smith, who you know I worked advice we've been out for drinks, they flew me, I love Shane, he's cool dude, but he's brilliant. Absolutely brilliant is a master of odd. I don't know if you just call what would you call it, but it's a form you know so I I grew
with a bunch of hacker buddies in it in a small little hacker community and social engineering is something that I've been. You know relatively well versed in and shake whether he knows it or not. He really understands how people think and how to get them to do things so I'll give you a fascinating example. I left device in two thousand and fourteen and after I left some of the people I had had brought on the recommendation were still there. This of mine says Dude Good NEWS. I'm going to be running, I'm gonna be out helping produce the news program for the cable channel. I was like walking reg. Does that mean you're moving to Toronto? He goes. Why would I move to Toronto and I was like to work on the cable channel. This is back in two thousand and fourteen. He goes we talking about we're getting a cable channel, I'm going to work on the new show nice like dude. It was a Rogers deal the cable channels in Canada. It wasn't a couple years later they got the US based channel, but what happened was a bunch of my friends who worked advice didn't know the cable channel they got was based in Canada, but they believed they were going to be working on a cable channel in the Ui
S. That's important because you need people to really want to work. There be passionate and Shane was a master of giving you just enough information so that you believed in what you were doing with not realizing it's actually, not that great, I'm not trying to be a dick. I think change fantastic. I don't blame him for this, but it's clever you get a bunch of employ is who believe they're going to be on this big new american cable channel? Will she never set American? He just had cable channel. It's your fault for assuming it was going to be in America, but that meant a lot to those ploys, so you're able to boost morale, get everybody really excited until they find out was in Canada, and then they were like wait. What what about they did it they get their? U S channel, but that's you know Shane's to his brain. He really is a he's, a pure play, civilization, the video game. No, it's fantastic! I love this game, I'm planks of six right now, Dan and you can get there called great people they're all great people, dot that if you aren't enough points, you'll you'll get like Galileo, he'll appear in your civilization use. Am I firmly believe that in one hundred years
next you know selection, fifty you'll be able to earn a great march into chains math, because of how I'm like I I ii in out, he was able to build this empire. He did it through very clever ways of getting in fast, and I admittedly I I really like the stuff they used to do back in the day. I think the guys wow he he knows how to do it and the reason I bring up is because the the big story about traffic assignment was vice losing like seventeen percent. Because of that practice they were doing so. He really knew how to do the smoke and mirrors. You know what look at the other when you look at how it pays at a plant pans out to all the other news outlets that never gets laid off. You have to want you you, you don't have to wonder why a thousand jobs just got lost in the past week. It's just investment money and once they reach the threshold at all, you know came crashing down. The the the modern farmer example like the modern farmer was, I think, with just the clicks. Just do the the the the fact that that you can actually buy those clicks and attribute them to something to,
and then you can tell people in the oil company views I got yeah can do that and him over Logan DOT, com, yeah and there's other really clever things to like I don't this one is on par par, but make you have one Youtube Channel one thousand subs ten more ask subscribe. Now all got ten thousand subs, get it same thousand people yeah ten times and you've got you go around telling people. I've got ten thousand subscribers when in reality it's just one thousand people on ten channels. Those really clever ways to inflate your numbers, and this attracts investment. It also, but more importantly, it allows leverage in dealing with ad with ad buyers and ad networks. What are people doing when they're boosting up their instagram numbers uh? I don't know a lot about Instagram pull it up. I can't show you and I just went to a website by you- two views dot com for two thousand eight hundred dollars. You can have a million views, that's but there's there's! There's! There's there's there's
reasons to do it, not if you want to be a youtuber. If you want to be successful on you to buying views, ensures you'll, never make it, but look at this way. No one do this. No one, I'm not advocating for to explain film ten videos of full season of the Joe Rogan Travel adventure by a million views on each to be patted out over a month. Go to any look at this show we launch one million views per episode. You want to buy it. One million people watched episodes. Fantastic, you see now you see what I mean. Yes, well, if you're full of yeah, but hey man, there, people who it's it's snake oil as people who do this yeah, but here's the thing you get access to network with real views, he'll be traffic right. You know it. You can trick your way into getting on tv, fake it till you make it it's dirty. It's a it's a legal right to legal this fraud. Well, actually I don't know if they don't.
It is fraud. If lying, the clicks like that, I think I think New York there was someone sent me article that attorney general of one step may have been New York said. Miss represent, saying yourself online through fake views, clicks and likes is illegal. I think what they're saying is that you, other people's images to create fake accounts is like invasion of privacy or something but we're getting to that point. But you know there's people who play that game. I guess you you can really. You can really pull it off. I've met a lot of people who there's a bunch of tricks. Man you ever you ever you know. Team follow back, is from Twitter, you've seen it I've seen the hashtag. What does that mean? It may have changed, but essentially I follow you follow me that way. You'll see some people will be following one hundred thousand people and will be followed by ninety thousand people, and then they walk around Bragg. Ninety thousand followers- and it's like well hold on, like you just on
agreement with them, you're, not influential. It was a trick that people would do to inflate their numbers right, but those numbers are legitimate. If you do post something on Twitter, it will reach ninety thousand. Absolutely so, there's definite yeah yeah it did it. I I've seen it work. I have to translate, but it's just a it's a it's a trick, get a drink of gaming system, yeah, there's there's a lot of sneaking is going on, but while I have fake twitter followers, I didn't pay for him, but I found him went through one of those how many of your twitter followers are fake, those those aren't so good. What what does that mean? Is it like? So many of the people don't engage? I think that's what it's based on right and that doesn't make sense what doesn't make sense and also because what if they just are logged in the just read exactly and that's most twitter users right, which is still engaging you're, just not going to waste. So that's one of the big problems with tracking fake accounts is that it's just someone's opinion there. Most hot that says. There's
two things most high profile accounts will read is having a ton of fake followers, because people will sign up just to follow. You and Reed would have to say, because they want your feet that they want. Do they want Joe? They want. You know Bill Clinton or whoever, and they won't have that feat of people they don't they don't interact, and so then they're labeled fake. The other thing is when people make fake bought farms, they purposefully will follow people like you, so they look real right. So you do get fake ones. Sure, and it's hard to know, people point to politicians and always like to claim the fake followers. But I'll tell you what you could you easily go online and buy followers for someone else? It happened. I believe, step to the daily, I say believe, believe elected, don't get sued just so you know the daily dot one day jumped like thirty one thousand twitter followers and had to put out a message saying someone bought followers for us. We didn't do this. We are actively trying to remove them right now. It's difficult because you don't know who is real and who is fake effort happens right. Man there's tears, you possibly remove them that you have to find out what the timeline was and how quickly they came in and go to each individual account. Well, there's
there's a thing that I think there's an app that allows you to purge what they view is fake. You can block and unblock when they're, not following you anymore, but it's tough man there they're, terrifying ways to and buying views will destroy our you tube channel it because you did not. Was there fake, right, yeah so think about what you can do to other people? If you have three brand, you want to try to ram it. Yep yeah hi there you too, bye bye views for them attributed to them and get them in trouble, but I will say: for people like you and to an extent, people like makes eye contact at Google that would work on us right. I just make a phone call and say I just want you know, and they got no problem, but let's say you're somebody with one hundred thousand subscribers. You know you, you make a living, you got a career on Youtube, but you don't have a manager with you to be. Don't have contact with Google. If someone attacks your account you're out yeah, you know they. They can just do that. Scary, yeah, yeah man,.
Jeff Bezos, oh yeah, Jeff, Basos crazy, is the national Enquirer. Allegedly we should say allegedly, I believe, allegedly I don't want to get sued, tried to extort him and it's about the Jamal Khashoggi Investigation from the Washington Post. It's all connected to that a bit about it. I started reading more when Ronan Farrow came out and claim that they went to him too. So I'm not as versed like I haven't read I today they meaning the Enquirer inquire, yet Ronan Farrow um. It was a story I think was from the week where Ronan Farrow says that they approached him and you know put pressure on him as well. But you know the interesting thing is when I read that story, I kind of laughed because I was like member Cocker member when they public when they outed Peter Thiel, and then yes, you know uh Hulk Hogan, like you know these people
really brave to go up against billionaires like this and try and drag him also point out: it's kind of scary. You live in a world where billionaire can destroy, destroy your company because they're angry at you, but mine is also kind of scary that they can use this to extort him so that he doesn't. He takes the Washington Post or attempting to get him to take the Washington Post, remove a legitimate news story about an actual murder. I don't trust the Washington Post, but you know that's an aside and that is inside yeah yeah like if you get it, you know when I look at the national Enquirer. Did it just reminds me what the media does Mmhm they, they know what they can do and they know how to do it. The media is influence its power. You know what brands they're scared they're scared. So you look at what happens with some of these twitter accounts that will lead campaigns where they encourage all their followers to send e mails. It's it's. It's not the same as blackmail by no means,
but when you know there's an attack vector like you know. What is that wild sardines company? They don't want to deal with the brigade from activists, you tweeted them fans with them and they merely by canceling your show in the disavow you, unless you do something, unless you say something less, he does about something you know so granted it's it's leaps and bounds worse when it when, when a national Enquirer, allegedly, you know tried to extort Jeff Bays AUS. The crazy thing about it is allegedly again, allegedly that the investigating name is Becker was entertaining the possibility that a government entity intercepted the texts- nude selfies for us, but I did see the journalists tweet that they're not entertaining that the not pursuing it just a thought. So maybe it's not real. What part of the the other thought was that his girlfriend's brother who's, a trump supporter, might have somehow or another got screen grabs of her for
on. It was really interesting. One basil said because he owns the post people person, people presume he's their enemy yeah, that's a that's another point out bring up to when it comes to like banning Alex Jones. Just because someone's reporting, something doesn't mean they're advocating for it, but sometimes they are it's like if you and the new ones in that yeah but yeah I mean basis, is probably not the person you target. I could you imagine what would happen if basil shut up with the Washington Post and said guys kill the story. Every everyday which we did. Yeah basil showed up. It just killed our story, yeah it it's almost impossible to so unrealistic, but maybe there's more to it. I mean yeah, the the the real the- and this is the big conspiracy theory was that you know Trump always calls him Jeff Bozo right right. Someone from that side is involved in this yeah, and you know Trump's always had this relationship with the Enquirer that big kids get right. Yes, so
I don't know, I guess I you know is relatively new story, and I've been you know here, so I don't know as much about it, as I probably should, which just shows you how crazy digital media is a bit digital thing. Things like sending things through the air and it's just that people can get intercepted. That's why you know when I, when I mentioned earlier, the potential for civil war, like we don't know what it would look like this could be. It could be special interests using information. It's the information war, things that people have talked about. I was thinking of this awhile ago. It's like man, why? Why did people shoot each other one hundred years ago? Let me still do but, like you know, world war, two, why are they running it because they wanted to gain control? They wanted, they want to centralize power or they wanted Thio. You know push it annoy ideology or a government or expand their power. You don't need to shoot somebody to do that. You just need to convince them you're right or you need to get them to fight each other. So I think it's fair to say: yeah. The Russians are absolutely screwing with us, but we've learned through if you trust the reporting it's hard to know, what's real or not, that the
campaigns were not only promoting trump supporters, but they were promoting black lives matter. Why get in a fight? Well, they weren't just doing that. There's a fantastic podcast that SAM Harris released recently with a uh woman. Let me let me get her name, so I can is ah see if you can find it Jamie. It's called the information war, that's the name of the pot, but they were, they were doing all sorts of different things like not just trying to ranade Diresta diresta and I'm working on getting her down here soon. They were, they also had like Texas culture. They had Trans rights that they even organized Facebook campaigns where they had a pro Texas group in a pro muslim group meet across the street from each other I mean there, there sowing seeds of dissent like organizing it, and I think I would be willing to
and the possibility that what we call the culture war today was seated specifically by special interests. Potentially Russia, nothing you do about it. It's done. You know when, when, when people adopt an ideology, you can't easily break that and some people refuse to cross that divide. You know yeah, but it's just so funny how many different ways they were attacking this. They had a blue lives matter, groups and black lives matter groups, and they put people at odds with each other and one of the big ones that they did was they targeted African Americans and we're trying to get them to vote for anyone other than Hillary, and this is like an engineered campaign that Jill Steinz Stein's our vote and like we can't vote for Hillary like Hillary, does not support us. We can't for Hillary and so made it very tribal. The first thing we have we have to assume is that it was effective and at what we view in the culture war was exacerbated by these campaigns. We don't know, we don't know to what extent they had an influence over
for the US, but I will say I think it's fair to point out. They play a role and then we can see what happens Charlottesville, where we can see the dramatic escalation where you end up with some crazy guy associated with white nationalism, ramming a car into a bunch of protesters. Yeah, it's you know, people get riled up to a point is a really great video called this. Video will make you angry by Cg Tigre, where he talks about how these groups they argue amongst each other, not against each other. They may each other angry by posting images of the other. You know there's sub right, that's why I don't want to you know, start a brigade, but they'll post Means non: stop attacking a particular politician, they're, not arguing with the left or the right they're arguing to themselves about what with the other, and so these groups grow and get angrier and angrier and then, when they finally meet in the real world, you get extreme violence. So it's very it's very possible to see those communities and rile people up push these
things yeah and well. It's also, it seems pretty straightforward how to manipulate them and how to appeal to their tribal nature, and it's terrifying. How easy it is yeah. You know the story of terrifying: how few people are aware that they mean a lot of these really toxic pages, that you'll find that uh commenting on things that are whether it's Instagram or twitter, or whatever they're, not they're, not real, be who you think they are and what ends up happening. The average person say on twitter well, look at their mention and ANSI ten tweets where they say you shouldn't talk about this more. How dare you everyone when in reality, could be one person, but it works well. This is what it's cos to run away from sponsoring you know, shows and stuff. They think everyone's attacking them could be one person. Where do you think this goes if you're, if you're looking at this like this, is fairly new right? All of this stuff is fairly new and really kind of. Ah, this is uncharted territory in terms of how to navigate this stuff, there
they're sort of figuring out what the influences are as we go along and again ten years ago, this didn't even exist, so this is all all. Yet what do you think? It's going? U S! City state location at a dangerous, dangerous level, so it's the it's the independent economy, if you're a you tuber, if you're a podcaster, if you're an artist, if your cos play or whatever well they decide to ban some people for reasons I'll make sense like Sargon didn't violate the t o S, but the ban him anyway. So Sargon goes to subscribe. Star activists then decide Sargon shouldn't be allowed to make money period. So they start. You know campaigning and subscribe. Star Subscribe. Star loses access to Paypal and stripe, so it can no longer process payments who made that decision to remove it? Yes, most likely Paypal. I believe I believe that's on the website pay pal. You know, because what happens is paid also get scared away. We don't want to be involved in this. Well, something else happened subscribe to our reactivated. There they've got new payment processor, which means
we've seen that the budding off of a of a of a mirror economy, which is dangerous. The fact that America in general, can't share the same platform and had to create an alternate, an alternate that had to be supported by separate means. If this continues in that direction, we're gonna end up with tons of systems that operate for only certain political factions, uh Jack Conti, the page of the CEO of Patron said two, I believe, CNBC, you can't say anything you want in the world. What does what I say in the world had to do with what you? What service you provide by all means? If you want to ban them, you can, but you can then see the adopting of ideology. Someone posted a funny comment, a company that
fuses to sell water to a hundred men in the desert because they think the wrong thing. But then what happens? Different companies emerge and you get tribes that are divided not only by their ideology but literally there on able to communicate with each other. That can only lead to one thing: the tribes getting physical, Charlottesville, Portland, Baltimore, Boston, Berkeley, San Bernardino, these various instant is where the they've clashed in bash. Each other people have been killed, some people shop with guns. I think that's I don't I I gotta be honest. I don't think there's a way to fix it. I don't really. There is a hilarious comment. I'm sorry comic programmer humor on Reddit and they said when you talk to an airplane engineer or or mechanic, they say. Oh yeah, these things are engineered safety, you're more likely to get car accident in airplane. You know when you talk
electrical engineer. Oh god, we've got someone who redundancies that the system will fail. If you know, when you talk to a programmer, everything's everything's bad voting machines are corrupt. The system is failing. We can't secure it like. There was a kid at Def con hacker convention. In fact, a voting machine like that, like the whole system, is, I got to say you know that story. I told you about high times. Yes, imagine if someone did that, but it was a political story. How easy would it be to rile people up and getting violent? It's it's! It's! It's! It's a dangerously easy! It's terrifying yeah! It's very easy to get people riled up with fig stories, and you know, and once they go viral, there's no stopping it, and I think we were seeing a really even more terrifying phenomenon in that, even when we have evidence in front of our eyes. Covington people refuse as one for instance yeah. He won't back down yeah. It's like the for the the the this. It was the first video that just shows the one kid standing next to Phillips. That goes viral understand why people saw that more like whoa, but the second video that
viral almost the exact same time, showed Phillips, walk up to the kid immediately disproving proving the original narrative. The kid approached him, but even Bill Maher still got it wrong. You know. So, even when people can see exactly what happened, it doesn't fit their narrative, don't believe it, and- and there was an article that I think it may have been in Gizmodo or Dad's been or something that said: dot don't listen to them. We all know what we saw and it's like dude, that's where, if we're getting to the point where kids at a blackout, basketball, game web, aren't black body paint and throwing up three pointer signs is how do how do you bring those people back from the from the brink and I'll say this too, like I obviously have been you know, I've very uh didn't mention altar right violence. All that often, but then you have to realize the altar right is tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, they're, they're rare, admitted defeats. You know Richard Spencer sat, I I think he said this at anti for one or something no one showed up hit an event in Florida. Eleven people shut up. I'm not worried about that. Guy. I'm worried about these free ideologies that are racist, intolerant and violent oly seeping into our culture. Like
you see politician openly, embrace like race based government policy, it were. It really does worry me. You know my I I I think I have this perspective growing up in a mixed race family, where I've been insulted, the left for being white and I've been insulted by far right, racists. For being you know a much, and so I don't like either of it. I really don't, but the white supremacist types are falling apart and they don't threaten me anymore. They days days, don't but the left wing, racism and the and these ideas of racial equity in and determining what you're worth based on the color of your skin are becoming more and more pervasive. The lawsuit with Harvard that that a Asians have a harder standard. A tougher standard for getting in even agents are smaller minority than white people. Why does that make sense? Why should I have to approach someone and justify erase to them that terrifies me really does, and we see Kirsten Gillibrand tweet. The future is intersectional well in
sexuality. Is that ideology of race based policy? Because God has put forth with a green new deal? It says racial equity I'd. I I'd prefer to judge someone on account of the character, not the color of their skin. What's also that the kind of talk to gets Trump Reelected, how God and that's that's what that's what my biggest pet peeves, because now you know I've talked about progressive tax. I think we can do a lot for a public option for expanding Medicaid. The idea of green new deal at its core to me is fascinating. Can the government you know, can we allocate tax money to in Justin New Technologies, fusion nuclear, reduce carbon emissions and do great things? Can we make high speed rails, but then, when you come, they pay the unwilling and these other equity things and intersectionality. I'm like that's, not that's! Not what I'm talking about. I can't support that. The unwilling is the most preposterous one, the idea that someone's unwilling to work and we need to provide them with a living. That's insanity, I mean that's the ultimate progressive bend, but that's where it
keeps going, but they're trying to out progressive the next concept but but hold on in a social communist society stuff to work yeah. I don't know what id exists where you expect people to undertake the greatest construction project in the history of humanity, a massive train network that makes all planes obsolete, but the same time tell people they don't have to work if they want money. Well, this is what we're saying is like as these ideology, please getting more and more ridiculous. They try to out progressive the next step, like it's a fundamental right for you to earn a living and and pure search. Recent upper pulled last week, couple weeks ago, Democrat the Democratic Party. Fifty four percent want more moderate policies, so I'm I found that bracket, but still still have on forty three or so that one more left, leaning policies. That means the party split, and so here here's the problem. I see if you're gonna put me up. If you're a ten, you got a vote, you have to vote, you have to make a choice.
You've got a moderate conservative who believes things, I'd really don't agree with, but he doesn't want to give money to people don't work and he doesn't believe in it at the Terry in politics and race, equity or whatever, and then you got the Democrats who are so far left to me. I can't even see them anymore. Who do you think you know social liberals and liberals and and liberals are gonna vote for the closest person to them politically will be a conservative. That's what scares me. You know we had this great future with the potential for a public option for expanding Medicaid. For I mean look, I really do believe social programs are important. We can do more. I like a lot of what he has to say. I think we need to reform education, but I think education could be expanded again, I'm interested in the ideas I want to advocate for them, but we need to figure out how to do it, but my like, where I fit really I'm politically homeless. I know and agree with someone judging me based on my race. I've been through that hell. No, never again. People Van causing my home because they don't like that a brown mom in a white dad. I don't want to live in that world.
When you look me in the eyes and say I tell people look at this way when it comes to Harvard look into the eyes of that little asian boy and say honey, you can't go to Harvard you're asian. You look too much like those people. How does it make sense? Why is it that? Just because this kid looks similar to this kid, you're gonna tell him he has a harder standard for pat for the S a t s to get into the school? I just I refuse I absolutely it's disgusting and the fact that it's coming from Harvard is so confusing that the Hyatt mean that is the school right when you think about higher learning like where you grab all my dad graduated from Harvard well Harvard that's Harvard that's the school and the fact that they're practice this way. They say it's because if they didn't do that, the student would be overwhelmingly asian disproportionate to their touch that white people. I don't care I shop right right, I either. I don't think you to look at someone and say you look too much like they do. No, it's crazy! It's yeah! It's it's, not a meritocracy. If you do that, I once talked about universal basic income. What do you have?
What do you think about artificial intelligence and artificial intelligence and automation, and the removal of all these jobs is a real concern that a lot of people have and then the the way to mitigate it, that's being bandied about is universal basic and they would give you a certain amount of money and I think the idea is that everyone would get it even wealthy. People would get it and that would the only way to make it fair, but where the is that money coming from and then what do you think about it? I I don't think it. I I'm I'm an economist man right now, but I don't, I don't, think it's feasible at least right now. I do believe that, on technological level, we will eventually reach like a star trek. You know kind of future where it's not about communism is just literally like we have. No scarcity is gone right like they have replicators, but when it comes you basic income. People need to understand some basic economic principles. If everybody gets one thousand dollars. Okay, that's three hundred million one thousand dollars right right, but it's not everybody! It's everybody of working age! Right! Yes!
So, let's, let's, let's do this! I wondered I own, I own a burger shop. I need to hire someone to burgers, so I say we pay ten bucks an hour. It's it's a lot, but were small business. We can't really afford to pay more so acceptable. They say I get one thousand bucks a month. Why would I? Why would I spend you know if if you know that not really well, the idea is that the thousand bucks a month you get you to keep and then the fight, I'm burger one. Ten bucks an hour. I don't care. When I was when I when I was seventeen eighteen, I worked for Amare in Eagle Airlines. I was lifting like fifty thousand per day now getting ten bucks an hour and may been jacked. No, I well, I was I I've been scared for my whole life, so I would certainly you know in shape, but if you get, if you told me hey, you know how you're making less than one thousand bucks a month working full time after taxes. How about we just give you one thousand bucks. I bet I'll, be the skate park yeah. You know so there's some positives that people will pursue their passions but hold on how many people do you know want to be comedians and quite not funny.
Imagine if you said we're going to subsidize your endeavor into a thing: you're, not good, at how many people are really good at carping carpenters, but they wish to be pro football players, how many people you're really good at being teachers, but want to be a famous actor. So what do you think would be some sort of an appropriate response to automation and artificial intelligence? I mean you can't just of millions and millions of people just have. No. Where are you now and that's? That's it that a techno I said this is this is why I you know I I've I've never been a pot smoker. I think it's more like once in my life when trying now now it's just not my thing, but everyone would think I was stoned, because I would talk about this kind of stuff with my friends while they were stoned the philosophical consequences of technological innovation yeah. It is not the postmaster's fault that he spent thirty years becoming the best of the best in working at the post office. That technology emerged, that is, want to place him and make him and put it in the Pour house. When I was about nineteen years old, I was skateboarding in downtown Chicago and I saw an old black homeless man and
I had some leftover food now is like hey. What's up dude you you want some food is like ours. You know thanks man and I was like I got to know. Can I ask you a question: how did you become homeless? And he said I, you know what man he's. I think it was like sixty something he said. I have a job I work all day: everyday had a family. Eventually, you know my my have kids friends started, get old and move on. I lost a lot of them died and one day I got told that my job wasn't needed anymore, and so I could do anything when I unplug it for a little bit. But my eight, you know the job I was good at didn't exist right. I can protect the way that is fourteen years ago, but he was like so everybody when I said yeah I'll, do anything I'll do anything, but even the small jobs that paid a little bit to flip burgers weren't enough to cover my rent after a few months. I could I got evicted then, because I don't have a place to live. I couldn't go to the job. I did have start sleeping outside and I've been here ever since. I'm like that said, you know and that's that's that's a sad reality.
Do you do. I don't know a o c, but she looks you up, but that's the thing that she goes too far, but this is why I believe, and and some kind of social policy and saying that Social security, something to help these people. Well, for sure you know, if we have a real community, you would help out the people we're in your community wig. Yes, that's you know some works really really well. When you have like five people, Brian yeah, I I try explaining to people they. They always make this political. You know the political compass, authoritarian, libertarian, left right, and they they people like to claim that anarchists, like the violent smashy ones and Antifa, are libertarian left and I'm not know, know like the libertarian left. Quadrant are pot, smoking, hippies, live on farms and Arco com. This makes a ton of sense when it's you and your buddies, working together on a farm sharing responsibilities and doesn't make sense
for a community of you know three hundred million people and you have to trade extremely specific resources to make a computer happen right. At that point, you need to build to quantify the value of specific objects and that's why communism doesn't work for massive on massive scale, but I will say when artificial intelligence, a different conversation, you know technology advances advancement is going to result in like luddite riots. You know people, you know the opioid crisis yeah. I I I could be wrong. I I read that there was a connection between unemployment from these factories getting shut down and depressed dudes popping pills. There was a man of masculinity report was published by herries the shaving company and they said the over. The overwhelming majority of what contributes to a man's happiness is gainful employment like like eighty percent. So what happens when a factory shuts down? You got a bunch of young dudes who want to do something they want to matter, but they can't there's no there's nowhere to go anymore, especially in the
small town, but I'll tell you what man Percocets feel real good. You know those drugs, they feel fantastic, but they'll kill you that's. You know. I think this contributes to the popularity of Bernie Sanders and Trump. They talked about the working class to talked about this free trade agree hurting people, they talked about getting the factories back together, and that means a lot to people who have been popping pills who are Esto are sad and scared. That's a lot of people in this country so to wrap this up um. The only the only other thing that I think I I would liketo at least make an attempt at is what would be the path for a person who's been banned from the social media sites? What what do you think would be a reasonable way to bring people back into the conversation um, whether it's Youtube or whatever? What would be a reasonable way? I mean, don't you think, jumping back on just reinstated, I mean just anybody,
nobody, no matter what they've done. Well, if you commit a crime, you've got, you know you get caught, you go to jail right. Then, when you get out you're free to engage in normal, you know so, like a behavior. Do you think that the concept of a permanent ban is in some way, almost a nun? American concept? Oh man, I don't know to get that specific, like we're into freedom of speech. What is it? I believe that as long as these companies are monopolies- and they are the public sphere- it is raw going to permanently exile. Someone for saying a bad word for holding the wrong opinion. A lot of these like learn to code of their fucking preposterous. I mean and someone permanently for something that what we're saying a man is never a woman right. That was a permanent ban. Yeah it men aren't women though. Yes, that's, that's absurd and terrifying yeah, but even like Milo being banned right. Why? Because
he was tweeting at a celebrity you're supposed to treat it. Celebrities will not only that it was. I mean the criticism of that movie was no different, the criticism of any movie that they thought sucked, but it happened to be about a feminist idea or a woman's handy. What was it was interesting is that I mean it's been so long. So forgive me if I get this wrong, but I believe Leslie Jones was tweeting her followers to go to my low as well or some w. So I will let you know: she's she's, but she's done some some questionable tweets herself. Hey look people block me for no reason. I I have no idea why some people of locked me yeah I've I've gone to people's pages and found that I'm block, because that blacklists yeah well there's a solution. If you don't, if you don't yet so what they see, what they say is is actually really interesting precedent. The day stormer I encouraged up. This is I'm going off of some news reports that could be wrong. Encouraged people to send you, racist images and stuff
sending mean things to this woman, who, I think, I believe, was asian or black, and a court ruled that the first amendment will not protect you. If you encourage others to engage in her basement. It's really interesting, then, when we consider what's gonna happen with lawsuits towards all of the people who smeared and defamed and called for action against Covington kids that precedent that was used again daily Stormer is not gonna, be used against these high profile celebrities and personalities and are their lawsuits that are being formed right now that the Big NEWS, the five lawyers, I think, one of the guy's name huge list of usual IST um, a lot of like you know a lot of people didn't like the tweets, but a lot of people didn't retract bill Maher four days later, it's like after people were already offering to represent these families and threatened lawsuits. Bill Maher then comes out with bad information, but anyway, ultimately to the point of redemption. We shouldn't permanently exile people for saying things that we think are wrong. What really scare me about the Alex Jones, then I am not
I'm about to say, is not to claim the Alex Jones is mentally deficient. Anything like that. That's not my that's! If you can, whatever can you what? The point is, if your justification for banning him is that he said, send it wasn't real? Does that mean people who are who don't have a grasp in reality, aren't allowed to use social media? Is that? Does that mean that people who are stupid aren't allowed to social media people who are mentally ill have to have an intelligence test to use social media? That's insane, you know, people are allowed to say they want to say, and I think so long as twitter is a monopoly. They should probably we should probably have some protections on the in the ability to engage public discourse. I'll give you a really important point occupy Wall Street took place in Cardi Park in New York on, what's called a privately owned public space pops. This space is owned by a private entity. However, they had no legal grounds for evicting the protesters from the park because it was encouraged. The public was encouraged
come so I would argue if twitter is actively encouraging public participation, they lose the protections to ban whoever they want. I think it's rather terrifying that you would cede political power in this capacity, two foreign interest, stockholders and private individuals in a massive corporation. I'm I'm, I believe, that's not even beholden to the US to to a certain degree. You know what I. Forgive me for being a little bit of a liberal who wants regulation on massive corporations, but I'm just I'm surprised, I don't see it. You know from other people on the left, it's a very compelling argument and I think the more it's fleshed out, the more it seems to. We definitely have an issue, it it's a giant issue and it doesn't go away when you just ban people. Oh no, you create Para Well economies, worlds and you end up with backlash. Well, listen! Man! Um, I'm really happy came I'm really happy. We did this, and ah just thank you. Thank you for ah educating me on this and giving you a perspective and it's a very, very
articulate and very intelligent perspective, and I really appreciate it and I think for everyone. This helps us to sort of get understanding of. You know this just the whole spectrum of what's going on with all the stuff yeah and I Alice add by saying I don't think, I'm the smartest person the world, I probably got it. I probably get a lot wrong. I do my best to try- and you know, have my facts straight. If I don't forgive me fact, check me all the time you know, do you to jail due diligence, but now does not appreciate your purse active. Thank you, brother. That's rabbit! Thank you will do this again. Temple Jason gentleman by thank you, everyone, one for joining us on the show and thank you to our sponsors. Thank you. Two skillshare! You can join the millions of students already learning on Skillshare today with a special offer. Just for the listeners. This podcast get two months. Skill share for free, that's right! Skills is offering listeners this podcast, two months of unlimited access to over twenty five thousand classes, for free to sign up, go to
skillshare dot com, Slash Rogan, again, go skill, share, dot com, Slash Rogan, to start two months now: that's skillshare dot com, Slash Rogan, and we are also to you by on it o n n. I t use the code word Rogan and you will save ten percent off any and all supplements. My friends. Thank you to Lynne in appreciate. You appreciate all of your all your thoughts and your time, and I hope you enjoyed this podcast as much as I did much like bye, bye.
Transcript generated on 2019-09-13.