Dr. Phil McGraw is an author, psychologist, and the host of the television show "Dr. Phil."
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There's some of those people. I was trying to find now, though, shift yeah. Let him worry, at all the years you've been doing your show and all the years you be giving advice. How do this catch me outside girl. How did this Oh god but all the secrets all different shows you made a monster I mean it's my moment of info your answers. So this girl comes on with her mother and her mother. Actually brings her own, of course, and she's a train wreck, and we work with her and we send her to this ranch for like four months right she goes for a long time. An makes a complete we turn around does Agrili a great job. They say: she's become a leader she's working with all these girls doing a great job, and then she
roger- and I remember this last shot. We do this this piece at the ranch she jumps up on. This fails: the smile and everything and wave it at all one night at home with their mother one night and her mother's find in people that are trashing her, the mother on on the social media platforms, her mother tracks some day. Backs into who they are gets. Their phone numbers called him up, yelling into the phone? Calling him names and stuff gets. The daughter involved one night crashes, so they come back for a follow up like I don't know month or two later and when they come, I say: ok, we're going to have him back. They walk out
I have the audience completely empty. I have nobody there to play too. I mean two hundred fifty chairs empty, nobody in the house, but me the mother and the daughter, that's a good move and they go well for us. Where is everybody? Is we don't need anybody we're just here to talk, and you know, keep things rolling right and they were dumbstruck. They there was nobody there to showboat for a poor play too and there's like a fifteen minute interview. They had nothing to say off they go then this phrase that got turned into a you know whatever name or whatever they call it yeah just went crazy and what she was not, good for a Grammy or something SIRI, I'm serious So I take no credit or blame. You know! I just did what I could and haven't seen her since I wish
everybody. Well, maybe she'll turn so maybe it'll grow up. She'll turn some positive out, but I hope so a very good attitude. Very healthy attitude for you, but it is when something goes viral. Like that something strange Whatever reason it catches and takes off its it doesn't make any sense it's a very weird thing: it makes no sense. She's on a billboard on sunset, a giant billboard really huge Norma's bill, but it's like one of the side of the building billboards with the the you know they put thick the graphic up. It covers the entire building. Is it makes no sense of seriously seriously? Others people curing cancer. You have fun with both hands. Nobody has any idea who won the last Nobel Prize. You're. Sorry I was, but you know more our tour. If she can turn in some
Steve this! You have talent. If you ever heard in your music now I have no idea. I've only seen her on your show has me outside the appreciate you bringing those are but it's so strange that one train wreck, could whatever reason catch on and then sudden, it's gigantic. They say that somebody signed her and paid him millions of dollars serious. Yes, she got like a close to a million dollars from a makeup company really yeah. Well, there you go is that happening right like? What would your advice be, then? Would you SB, hey, get your shit together and stop being crazy. Well, Make a lot of money off of being crazy in her opportunity. Before there were probably severely limited. Well, they had to be what I hope now that this, even though this certainly is a quirk What I hope now is that
she's surrounded by mature people with just a heads on their shoulders, an development people that will actually guide this in a way that it's not fifteen, minutes right yeah. The never know real. That's what I hope. Well, everybody. Not the Kardashians are going to be fifteen minutes. It's been fifteen years yeah, but there's been you know, people make fun of them and there's some good things Make fun of they do things to be made fun of, but there's also very smart business and branding that's gone into that as well, so how to percent- and you know when I was actually very impressed with her- that she actually went to the White House to talk about prison reform right for people that are unjustly accused or be and been in jail for too long for the things that they didn't do that's something she's, actually passionate about yeah, and I I know Kim and she's, actually a very nice Grover, Smart and all- and you know that, as I say, they've done, some very brilliant branding and certainly paid off just so
fascinating when something catches like that occur. What is your name? The catch me as I grow, Daniel Britton, goalie or something yeah for more sure. Yeah 'cause I didn't know. Where is the catch me outside great, but if he didn't say that one phrase yeah and she just said that I think to her grandmother or somebody in the audience. I know it didn't even register with us at the time wow, was it wasn't a standout phrase in the interview or anything it just passed by somebody just grabbed it, and then it became a meme yeah. What a weird world we live in here no kidding. What is it mean? It has to be? a lot of responsibility to try to give people advice and try to straight in their life out and show them the flaws in the errors of their making. It is you know, people ask me. Sometimes they say you know duxfield our problems
sing problems are as simple as you make him out to be, and the truth is, I don't think. Problems are simple at all. In fact, I think problems are really most of the time pretty complex, they're, pretty layered. They have a lot of different origins they're, often times Comorbid Alot lot of things exist together. So I don't think problems are simple at all but the solutions are often simple. Don't you think I mean it's kind of like the old joke. You go to the doctor and you say search Digital, then don't do that anymore? It's a lot of times! It's Very simple in it, somebody will have a complex thing. From childhood, or maybe it's a drug background, owner they've had trauma in her life, but the solution is change your behavior, I mean stop rewarding bad behavior choose a different path in life. Just behave your way to success,
sometimes. The solutions are very simple, even though the problems are very complex, because at some point you have to stop focusing on why and start focusing on what, instead of why it happened. What am I going to do to change it? So sometimes the solutions are pretty simple, but minting those solutions are often very it's often very difficult for people to change their lives change their patterns it is in patterns, is the key, You know nobody does anything in pattern if they don't get a payoff an and if you can identify that's, why right. That's why insights so important? That's why I think it's a number one outcome to whether somebody is going to respond to a talking therapy. For example, if somebody can identify what there payoff is where they really can figure out. I'm doing this repeatedly my payoff is I don't have to work or I don't get old, accountable for this or I'm a scaping
accountability over here or I get attention or sympathy or if they can figure out what their pay office and they can then control that, whether it's for themselves or their kids or whatever, if you control the currency, then you can control the behavior yeah it just seems that people have they have this comfort in their patterns and even if they had self destructive events, drug abuse or alcoholism, or did those those the comfort in those hundreds falling into those patterns, it seems very going to a lot of people, yeah and necessarily mean that it's a positive pay off right. I mean it pay off for taking heroin. Is you get high and so your high for? Well, that's not a positive pay off, but it's a pay off ramp and if you
if you get high, and so you don't get a job and you don't take care of your kids. That's a pay off that you're not doing things that you need to do that. You should be accountable for its a pathological pay off, but as a pay off none the less, and so that does reward you. Even though it's a pathologic will pay off it's a pathological thing. You call it a reward and it, but if you Identify that where they say look, I'm I'm not doing what I need to do and I need to stop rewarding myself in that way and hold myself, because I need to be there for my kid. A tell my kid: I'm going to be there every day and I don't show up 'cause I'm high on drugs. Then you know I need to stop doing. I don't need to not let myself get away with that and instead require myself to show up for the kid. When I say I do say, I will and then see what's in the kids eyes, you share the experience with him. Now that becomes your pay
so then you'll start showing up for your kid yeah. How many people take your advice. How many people just listen to try for a little bit and then bail. You know it's hard to say because. I think, are sometimes our most productive guest are the ones that don't get it because the mail we get they'll say: oh well, that guy didn't get her to that woman to get it, but I saw myself in them and I'll never say that again I saw them being such a right fighter, or I saw them being so hard, headed or so up positional, and I them say things. I've said and they'd left and didn't get it. I got it I'll. Never do that again. So some times, those that don't get it at all, while they're, there are the ones that are the best teaching tools for the millions of people that
home watching yeah. That's interesting! Isn't it when you watch people fail and you go? Oh okay. I see that in myself I just got to not do The guys do and then also do you see the stubborn pigheadedness that some people have when they won't listen to advice, an could clearly see how they're ruining their lives. By not being honest, Sometimes the story that we might have is maybe extreme where you say I don't do, all six things are doing, but I do two of them and they are in sharp relief to me. So I get that thing and do that anymore. So I mean that's where I think you get a pay off and it
people go and find these things on the internet I mean last year, you know we have a channel where we put a deal different clips from Devore shows are parenting, shows or whatever, and we had over two billion views your last year, people discord and finding that information looking at it. So I know people are seeking the information out looking at beyond the show itself, so you know they they must be seeking information and we just don't have a good distribution system for mental Health in America. So I think they look, I think they're hungry, for it they look for what how many people out there trying to do better they're trying to get lives in order, and you know, like Yours- and you know just advise- shows people that are giving out inspiration and knowledge, it's so it's such a an important thing for people, especially for people that didn't grow, with wise parents, or maybe a good support.
System around them. You know, I think, that's that's true yeah. I grew up with an alcoholic father. And it was a pretty violent home and he was a really bad alcoholic and I know having grown up in that you wind up with what I call a damage, personal truth and you feel second class, an the problem that kids make and 'cause. I know I did it, and and I see others do it, is you compare your personal truth? What you know about yourself how you really live and what's really going on, you compare your personal truth, to everybody else. Is social mask 'cause go to school and you know well, I know that last night the windows got kicked out of my house
I know that the utilities got turned off and I know there was a big fight in my kitchen last night and the kids next to me, he's got on a shirt, that's all ironed and his face is all bright and clean, and you know he looks like he's just got it all together and you compare yourself to that person that kid and you feel like your second class and the problem with that. Is we generate the results in life? We think we deserve. So, if you think your damage, do you think your second? Yes, you will generate results that you think a second class person deserves. So if you don't fix you, personal truth. Then you'll see the rest of your life saying. Well, you know those really good both those belong for? Somebody else is not for Maine, that's for some sales and you'll settle for second best, and you won't get what you otherwise generate for yourself. If you don't fix your personal truth,.
And so I think a lot of people are struggling, looking for a way to kind of get out of feeling, not good about themselves and damage. Self esteem damage self worth, and they really don't know where to go so and that's why I do show. I don't look, I'm not under the misapprehension that we're doing eight minute cures up there I mean come on. You are not doing it, but I think if you can point people in the right direction, if you can, raise their awareness. You can get him thinking about it, you can Aiden Arity, where they at least say. How do I feel about myself? I mean: is there stuff so I need to resolve. I mean what am I saying to myself: you can get them thinking about that, then you know maybe done something: yeah Tony Robbins once said once that it's incremental changes over the long haul. In the way you have to look at it as if these two boats are going in a parallel direction and one of them just shifts five degrees over the course of time. This boat is going to be in a far different place in the other, both it's going the same way. It was always going yeah. The imp
thing to realize is well is the next year. It's going to go by whether you're doing something about your life or not. I mean sitting here right now at the end of February, and the next ten months are going to go by whether somebody is working to make changes. They're not, and they may think- oh, my god, I'm so far away it I'll, never get it under control or, so behind in my bills, or I'm so just depressed or a everything is so out of control. Well, you know what you make those incremental changes, and then you know pretty soon. In December you go hey, I'm way better off and I was at the end of it query! So should we made little changes and they all add it up, and if you don't by the end of the year, you're just in deeper. So every little bit matters yeah I tell
people to write things down. I said one of the best ways to get things done is to write things down right now, what you're trying to get done right, what you need to get done on a long term basis and what you need to get done on a short term basis right off a checklist force yourself be accountable, yeah between a dream and a goal is a time and accountability. Yeah accountability is gigantic You have somebody, it would hurt yourself or a friend or somebody that's going to say look, did you do what said. You were going to do by this time and if you don't hold your feet to the fire, because I mean just Turn around dreaming someday someday I'm going to get a different job. Someday I'm going to change this will someday in a day of the week. You know Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday Friday Saturday Sunday look on your calendar some days not on there, so you gotta, say: ok, I'm going to take this small step by here this small step by there this most hit by there and then pretty soon. You know we don't leap tall buildings in a single bound.
And we take it a floor at a time that may over all the years you been doing, your show you've developed a real community right, I mean you You've made an impact if you stop and think about the people that you're shows touched and all the people that listen to your advice and all the people that have taken that advice and and those little incremental changes in their lives and set those goals and held themselves accountable, and it's a pretty significant thing. Well, I hope so I mean I think. I know that there's a stigma attached to mental illness, an that really three there should not be. I mean having russian or anxiety or whatever to Maine should have no more stigma than having
knee injury or kidney infection or yeah IBD's, but there is a stigma attached to it, and I've tried to talk about this in a way where it's okay, to talk about it and not be ashamed of it. It's it's! Okay! If you've got anxiety, you get PTSD what whatever it's? Okay, let's talk about it, let's get hell! Forget it behind! You move I mean it's, not it's not something that she should be ashamed of. What do you when you talking to someone that maybe has depression? Do you try to get them to exercise first? Do you try to get them to visit a psychiatrist immediately and get on medication like do you take it on a case by case basis? Well, I do, but you have to approach it. Everybody has a philosophy about it and I'm not saying it mines any better than anybody else's. But I do have a philosophy about it and I'm
very slow to medication. I mean, I think you, I think you use medication, four biochemical replacement, I mean if, for some reason your body is not making enough of something it needs, then maybe you support it short term biochemically but yeah. I I look at depression there's a lot of ways you can break it up, but I look at it like. Is it x in this depression or endogenous depression I mean. Is it coming from the inside out or the outside in. Is it because you're reacting to something? I see a lot of depressed people that in a sense it makes sense right I mean you look at your life and you say what, if you're not down about this, you should be. I mean you've lost your job. You've gotten a divorce, your
is in the shelter your I mean you should be down about this, its external things, so you don't need a pill. I mean put somebody in the chemical straight jacket because their life is falling apart. What the hell's that going to do! but that's just putting goggles on him where they can't see it. I would much rather get them to behave their way to success and say what are you reacting to that you're depressed about? Let's put that on a to do list, and Start, like you said, write it down and start crossing those things off, let's figure, what's an action plan to change this action plan to change the next thing actually and then, when we start doing that. Then you generally see their mood, lift a lot of people that are depressed or just realistically reacting to a crummy circumstance in their life is not necessarily a a mental illness. It's just a really realistic reaction to a bad spot in their yeah. That's such
a good way of putting it to the U warrant in a bad state. Looking at this, the might be something wrong with you. Yeah you're in denial is yeah, I mean if, if, if you got a divorce lost your job, your health, in bad shape. Your kids are alienated from you and you're, saying I'm fine, then you're not in touch with reality right. You should be bothered by that. An I think to give somebody a pill to mask your feelings about that. Just keeps you off task, I don't your pains. A good motivator uh I grew up in Like Texas and Oklahoma, and I don't know if you've ever done this, but we were I used to spend my summers in the throat having metropolis of Monday Texas. You ever heard of money. Now, it's m is in it's not an him, you in why it's got like two thousand people in it
but in the summers it would get hot. In Monday, Texas, hello, I say hard, I mean you look out in the backyard and your dog burst into flames is what I'm talking about, so we would be going to the swimming pool or something barefooted, and you get halfway across an asphalt road, Ann. You look down in your I mean like holyshit me, your you're just on fire. So what going to do I mean that is painful you're going to do one or two things: you're either going to make a? U turn and get your ass back over to the side of the road and getting the grass? or you're going to run to the other side and get off the road and get in the grass but you're not going to stand there in the middle of the road and melt yourself down to the knees. Is a motivator pain is not nearly always bad, if you're in pain it's going to motivate you to move, to change something and to match that with drugs to dull that pain with drugs is not necessary.
Really a good thing. That is wise. Wise advice and I'm wish more people thought that were potentially more doctors, so you know I have so many friends that have gone to a doctor cuz, I'm not feeling so good they're, almost immediately wanting to throw him on something yeah, that's more than all the years you've been doing. This have you noticed, like was depression. As prevalent like the term depression or it doesn't, I mean don't really remember it being a thing when I was a kid that was discussed discussed now now it's That's the way people discuss all sorts of other ailments. Is it just a an awareness thing or is it just people are thinking of found it now in different terms. Well, I think it's part of the narative now I think, with social media with the internet, not just social media with the internet. I think there's just lot more a more in the nomenclature.
And there's a lot more awareness about it, but I think it was just as prevalent in the 50s and 60s as it was now, but in the 50s and 60s there wasn't a psychologist on every corner right and there is now yeah and there wasn't sub doctoral licensing. Then I mean you, does that mean well back, then you had to have a phd or MD is a psychiatrist to see patients. Now they have marriage and family therapist election social workers. They have different levels of where you can do independent practice. So that's broaden the number of people that can provide services and some people think that's a good thing. Some people think it's not of. I generally think it's a good. It's a
good thing, because I think fifty eight percent of our rule markets today have no psychiatrist available and something like fifty your roughly. Have no mental health professional available at all, none! So there's just nobody available to help people in the outlying areas. So the more people you can get into the profession so long as there's a degree of competency is better, but you know I think it's always been prevalent, understand people to talk very much, it's just something I swallowed or they took to church or no. When you see you know these folks that are on medication? Today I mean how many of these people do. You think legitimately should be on medication, I mean, is it
then you can assess you know. I can't answer that in terms I mean, I'm sure, there's research of people how many people are on medication, but in my personal experience, Most of the people that I see on medications in My opinion, don't need most of the medications they're on now. That's just anecdotal, that's my opinion. You asked me to hang a research survey or study to support that. I can hand it to you or I can't point you to one. I just tell you after forty five years in this experience I see people that are on medication. They view Only seen someone for six or eight minutes.
And said you know I'm really feeling kind of down a real, quick yep, your some prozac, here's this here's that they give it to him and they don't ever really ask why and they just. Give it to him, because Madison has become a high volume business and that's not necessarily doctor's fault. I mean the way that it's now funded an Medicare and Medicaid you got a tournament Burnham yeah or you can't stay in business, and so it's a high volume business, and so they throw pills- 'cause? They don't have an hour to sit down or don't take an hour to sit down and talk about and say. Well, let's find out what's going is there a reason like I said this guys got five parts of his life that have on down or a woman who's got three or four areas of her life. That have we gone down in in quality, then they should be having poor mood. Show why mask that lists come up with an action plan and
change. So most of the people I see on medication, not all, but most of the people I see are on too many medications into Hyodo. Or either don't need it at all and I'm really bothered by polypharmacy? That's where I really get frustrated yeah. This is, I think, what you're saying is a very common sense approach, but it's not the norm today. It seems like more people are treating this. You know air quotes, depression issues. If it's a medical disorder like like diabetes or the something we need medication, yeah then look for a lot people it works? I mean you, give people a. Elevator and they say hey, I feel better and then Maybe they change their life. Maybe they move their life into a more positive direction. They can wean themselves off of it because one of the things about depression, for example, using that as an example is you get what's referred to as Psycho motor retard '
there's a there's a lessening in activity level and I think old sayings get to be old sayings because they're profound, like you're, not going to get hit if you're not swinging, well um, if you're depressed- and so you think, slower, lesak really. You behave less actively your chance of getting rewarded goes down right, you don't get out there and you don't mix it up socially as much. You don't apply for jobs as much you're, not as productive on your job as much so you're less likely to get strokes, you less likely to get rewarded, well, maybe you go take a pill and it lifts your mood up, so you get more active and so now you can start getting pads on the back. You start getting people to engage with you more, so
lift your mood, and that takes care of it. So you took the medication short term your lifted back up in your okay short term. It can be an alternative, but I've seen people on everything from opioids to mood elevators for years and that's where you lose me: yeah, don't get it yeah. I know people to have been on things since they were five years old, yeah they're in their 40s yeah and then we have wastebasket diagnosis like a dd and ADHD, where you know what used to be a spoiled brat is now add or ADHD, so they start prescribing uh these Ritalin
field. Cortical stimulants, like Ritalin, and if you give a kid that does not need a neocortical stimulant, a stimulant you're, really going to throw him off the charts. Now 'cause, you're, gotta, normally active brain but you're now making hyperactive so you're, creating a problem didn't exist before you get into medication because you didn't do the proper diagnosis yeah. I had my old neighbor had a situation like that they had a kid and the kid was just had a lot of. And we're not paying attention to him, and so they started medicating. Am it's insanely common yeah, and you cannot chemically babysit you and who knows where these kids going to be twenty thirty years from now I mean we're just looking at Is this rash of people being treated these ailments air quotes and then we're not seeing how this all turns out in the long run and how much damage were doing these people and in fairness on the other end of the continuum, I have seen
from people that are clearly psychotic, schizophrenics, delusional that without medication or absolutely imp, possible to manage. But if you put him on Anti psychotics an So you can lower delusional behavior, their hallucinatory behavior? So you can now have The meaningful conversation with them, so they can respond to talking therapies, it makes all the difference in the world and without those anti psychotics you would be lost yeah without so there are some medications for some disorders that are absolute miracles, that without them you would be able to do the work you need to do to get the person back where they need to be yeah. I'm question women is definitely a lot of great pharmaceutical drugs that help a lot of people. Do you could push back from
a lot of these positions from the established medical community, you know sometimes, but you know, mostly when you talk to people about it thoughtfully uhm. They agree. With with what I'm saying I mean most people will agree that you need to be thoughtful about prescribe the medications and that medications are too readily administered. I mean That's, certainly what we've seen in the opioid epidemic right now of. Boys are so readily prescribed right now that there are enough opioid prescriptions for every man and child in America to have their own bottle quote, and if you, We knew that prescription one time, one time, if you
taking those opioids at the seven day mark your chance of being addicted at one year is one in twelve and if you renew it at, if you're still taking him thirty days, your likelihood of being addicted is one in three and these things are getting written with way too high appeal count and it's and so the addictions we're seeing a whole different kind of addiction. Now coming to the suburbs and they looking for a while and they're very expensive and actually take him for awhile heroines cheaper, so they dumped the opioids and start taking and so you're saying soccer mom heroin, addicts that you weren't seeing ten years ago because they get started on prescription opioids and then they can afford them or finally, the doctor cuts them off, but they're addicted
and so they start taking heroin, 'cause it's cheaper now. This is obviously a very disturbing pattern. But where do you see this going like when you look at the future and mean it looks bleak in that regard, I mean I've known several people that have had real problems with pills. The problem that, but I think people have is they think, because the doctor gave me because it's on a prescription pad that this is safe, your body. Does over whether you got that in the back alley or you got it from a doctor. It still has the same addictive, and I think it is at an epidemic level in I've- testified before Congress about this, and I think there are several levels of accountability at the manufacturing level, an at the prescription level and at the educational level. So people understand, I think, every but he has to take part of it and I'm doing everything I can to raise the awareness about it as well, when you testify before Congress. The reaction there
Much aware of that, this has become a serious, serious problem because VIC the cost, as as you see the lost labor in the work force, is in the billions of dollars. You see the the demands on the healthcare system that this is creating of young mothers with with children and babies born addicted to these opioids I mean the numbers are just going through the roof, so I mean it's putting a strain financially on healthcare system that it just can't stay. So you you start costing money and it starts to get,
and politicians attention. So they start saying: ok, now we gotta start doing something, so they get it. They get that there's a problem. What could they do? The one symptoms like once that Genie is out of the bottle. Well, clearly, you've got to start educating people and the manufacturers have to be required. You start labeling this much more. Clearly, physicians have to much more server, Tevin Prescribing, I just had to shoulder surgery and I took like one: one opioid one pill. They gave me in the hospital and after that, but you can manage it with like tylenol or something 'cause,
surgeons, now or so good with the arthroscopic surgeries and stuff. It's so so much less of an insult to the body of that with ice and tile. Most of you can manage it if you just kind of focus on a little bit and- and I'm not saying if, if you've had surgery and and you're having organic pain for God, sakes You get ahead of the pain and stay ahead, but when you, as soon as you can get off of it, get off of it and understand, what's happening, yeah, there's no sense in being like macho. We don't need a leather strap between your teeth and go. Have some surgery I mean should have it hurts? Take the pill get past it but realised the man you can get away from that. You need to get away from it, but they don't need to give you a thirty day supply right. They need to give you three or four days
and then you gotta go see your doctor again. If it's still a problem discuss it, I mean that's what that's. What I think needs to happen is just be a lot more conservative about what you're giving isn't the problem. Is these pharmaceutical companies make so much money they don't want to. They don't want to back off that take out private jets and yachts and pay for you know they're starting to shut down some of these. They had some of these pill clinics in pain clinics in Florida, where you could go in without an x ray without an MRI and just say you had back pain and there was a doctor there. That would give you a ninety count prescription on the spot. No questions asked ninety and you're out the door, and you go down the street to the next one yeah 'cause. There was no database no database and that doctor might be a foreign doctor that flew in from offshore wrote all Prescriptions during the day flew off again at night and now they're shutting that stuff down so the hammers coming down. Well, one can only hope, um,
When you've been doing your show as long as you've been doing it and I'm sure you're we've made it all the of loot. What what makes you want to do a podcast? Why doing that? We'll my interest? it's been you're, saying there a lot of people getting information on the internet. By getting clips of the so and that sort of thing and it's clear to Maine, that is the population is changing you arm an old guy, but younger people are getting them information and ways you know they're going to the internet and the digital menu has got to be readily available.
You can reach a lot of people that way that you would reach the other way, there's a whole population? That's not gonna watch broadcast television during the day, yeah and there's a whole population. That's watching broadcast television in the day that maybe isn't on in the digital space, and If I can get a cross over between the two and you can get a bigger audience to spread your message, then you know that's what you're doing my goal is to spread the message and get what I thought, important to say out there. So I mean I'll, shout it from the rooftops. If that's what I can, if I think, that's effective, do anything, that's scalable, to get the message out there and and to me I'm doing I'm doing some different things. In the podcast and I'm doing on the show on the show. I've got a fact pattern in front of me. I've got a story. I got a family gun individuals,
get a specific fact parent. I'm dealing with that fact pattern in the podcast, I'm not so problem. I don't have somebody there that has a problem for me to solve. I'm just talking to people that I find interesting And I'm able to talk to them about whatever I want to talk to him about and discuss things like You are talking about right now. I think this is. I think what we've been talking about is an important discussion. Them I welcome the opportunity to have that discussion and I don't have time to do that. I'm talking about somebody who's sitting. There saying you know, I think my kid is on the precipice of overdosing or is really in trouble, and I gotta focus on that. I don't have time to pontificate about such things as the opioid epidemic or the philosophy of pills versus therapy, and things of that nature. 'cause. I have to give all my attention to the story in front of me in a podcast of Environm
like we're doing now? I can't talk about things that I think people need to hear. I think it's if they don't, they don't have to listen, but if they, if they're interested it's there. So I, like it being more free form and me being able to talk about things. I've been talking about what makes people a champion like. I talked to Tony Romo right after the super bowl about you came from Eastern Illinois University. It's like what nine students or something there's a little bit of university, and he turns out to be quarterback of America's team for four the near set all kinds of records and then goes to the booth and becomes a number one? Color analyst and television Mean Champion championship in the. Why you? What is it that? What do you attribute that to a I like asking those questions? Yeah, I hear people talk. What do you say to young people about that? What made you a champion, the you? Let your kids play football,
With all the c t, e and stuff, what what do you say? I'm out I like him in those kind of conversation with the same thing with Shaq and Charles Barkley in different people. What did he say about what makes you champion you know for him. He said that. He has this some. He says he didn't he the kind of swagger sort of person that you came in like he was going to own the field, and I won the game Bye the inside he said he had this absolute drive that if he didn't win, he couldn't live with it. It's like, if somebody thought, like you, played the game, somebody beat them
leave him that just the idea that that person went home thinking that they were better than him, that they could beat him that he just couldn't eat sleep think until he got back in owned it again and got back to the city to is this is drive to win, and so he would at me- and he said he would be out at one o'clock in the morning in the dome, throwing a pass that that route got intercepted. He got jumped on that route and he'll be trying to figure out why, on Thursday, in practice he saw what he needed to see. Why did he see it on Sunday and he would analyze and analyze and analyze until he could get there until he could do it until he could win it? He just had this drive to win. That super unhealthy obsession. They all share that Michael Jordan had that. I mean we've talked about that several times on the podcast, so many people that are stream winners. There's psycho!
Atika nurse obsession with winning it's all they want to do and if they lose they they they it's almost insufferable. They almost can't deal with it, and I I don't know if that's necessarily a bad thing, but the. Difference between winners and losers. His winners do things: losers, do not want to do yeah; they they will get up in the middle of the night. They will do this. They will do that. They feel it more. They just do things losers. Don't want to do that. Pay a price losers. Just don't want to yeah and lose so it's just not worth it, and every winter has been loser. Oh let's what made him a winter yeah? If all you ever, if you go through life, is in a success only Journey God, how boring would that be me? You think it would be great, but it's like eating ice cream every meal about the fourth meal, you're going to be thinking, hi, let's kill something and eat it. Well, it's like talking about about depression, about that bad
Drawings will motivate you to change if you're, in a bad feeling, if you're, if you're in a bad state in your life that pain, is an amazing motivator an even though it feels terrible at the time it can propel you to a new and better life. You don't ever want to experience that again and make you grow and be a better person and you gotta decide. What's your currency, I mean 'cause You say you know, you've done your show a long time and probably don't need the money, but there are different kinds of currency right. I mean you, don't always work for one kind of currency. I mean every year when we wrap our season, I kind of take a month and let everybody go on route. You know this kind of unwind,
in relaxing kick back and do whatever they want to do, and then we start meeting and focusing on okay. How can we reinvent ourselves for next season? How can we tell our stories better? How can we broaden our horizons? Do things different so that we raise our game because we're kind of competing with ourselves? There's you know we're Canada category by ourselves with when it does what we do and we've been number one for a long time, because I got a really hard working team but we're in this. Nobody else tries to do what we do right, we're kind of competing with ourselves, and so we were, we work real hard to figure out. How can we have a bigger impact? How can we tell this more of actively what techno
can we come up with that, make this even more powerful, more impactful than what it is and that's what you know? That's what really gets me moving. Well, it's very telling it's mean, that's why I would imagine you move towards doing a podcast where it's less restrictive and more open ended and you can kind of do whatever you want, but that's pretty. That all these years of doing that and giving out advice he's still. Find this this passion to to make it better and to do it ' I'm a different angle? Yeah, and you know I'm as excited about we're just about to wrap. You know or seventeen c, seventeen cities and the national law coming up. So, as you know, coming up on three thousand- and I did for for five years before and so she looks twenty two years and then watch then I just renewed for five.
Food out to twenty twenty three or whatever take before you sign that, like what am I doing? Well, let's go fishing, and I thought about it, but well what am I going to do? I mean I don't you know I don't want you enjoy. It obviously do yeah I enjoy it. You can tell, and I've always told my team, the thing that we don't want. I don't want to get bored right and if it gets formulate for me, it'll be formulated for viewer and I don't want that to happen, and we do a lot of news stories and stuff, and that keeps it fresh because you don't know, what's going to break in the news tomorrow right, and so we do most of the really big news stories and we don't break the news stories. We go behind the headline. Talk about here's. What really happened is Paul Harvey said: here's the rest of the story, yeah. Yes, what you read in the headline now: here's here's the rest of the story,
in. I really like doing a really like getting into the well it it and when you're doing this on your podcast one one of the the beautiful things about that is that you know you connect. Or these ideas without commercial breaks, you don't have to have any He telling you what to do. You could just what whatever is interesting to you. Is that how you pick the subjects and the people that you're talking to yeah like this? We got a, RON, PAM Myers, who wrote, lie is that a book on liars, liespotting, yeah and a lot of my career on deception detection because spend a lot time in litigation arena on interrogation techniques. That's how you met over right, yeah yeah.
When she was doing that, though the beef industry was sooner the mad cow case in Amarillo, yeah yeah you get sued for a couple billion dollars and represented her in that case, and that's that's how we met and trust me. I had PAM on and we both worked a lot in deception, detection, an interrogation technique, and stuff, and so just and it came right at a time when you know This is millet is in the new. News about this. You telling the truth is really not telling truth, and then here we have this conversation, but did you think immediately when you heard that story I was very suspicious. Yeah Jamie and we shot that once the cameras or offer like these off for God is real that nobody it was just too much like a movie yeah a bad movie yeah I mean it's nine below zero and to
people are lying in, wait just in hopes that he might come by two am yeah. I mean so strange. It was suspicious and you know he's entitled to due process, and going to get it yeah he's gonna. Get it now he's saying, is some untreated drug problem so he's trying to carve out some path to explain his bizarre behavior, but there are very. There are very specific. Why behaviors that people can't really control and like what kind of stuff? Well, for example, when when people are really desperately trying to convince you, they're telling the truth, they'll do a lot of times what are called convincing statements rather than just telling you what they did or didn't do.
We'll do. Convincing statements like you know me, like somebody, say who's, somebody, all the petty cash in the office. I think you know Maine. I give more money, donate more money than was stolen. You you guys know me. I mean I but was in poor use of wheat you know this convincing you that is nice guy and That's not what someone does of the wrongly accused. Would someone do with their wrongly accused the wrong? the accused, they'll, look right up in the eye and tell you I didn't do it and if you ask them, What do you think should happen to somebody that did and Some person will say, I think should be found. I think it should be held fully accountable. The extent of the law, somebody
guilty will say. Well, you know I don't know, I mean people make mistakes. You know you got to give a guy a second chance. Do you worry that in coaching that you're, essentially coaching liars by telling people kind of stuff and someone who does steal the money? You would be? the kind of like hey it's not for amateurs. Uh an when you, there are some things that you can tell people to watch for, but one of the things you do if there's somebody that you suspect is you increase their cognitive load during the interrogation and there's no way you can prepare for that. So how do you do that? well, you plan a mind virus, for example, a mind virus. I like it yeah. This is Perry, Mason type shit yeah like what do you do like
If How do you reason. Somebody would have told me that they saw you near that cash box about the time it went missing. Don't don't ok, now, people talk at one hundred and twenty five words a minute. They think at twelve to one thousand four hundred words a minute. Now, if it takes you far, Five seconds to tell me know you took the money because if you were nervous right now, 'cause, if you didn't take it, You know you didn't take it. You don't need to run scenario through your head to think who could have seen me what do It was, I didn't see anybody. Nobody could have seen me what but if you didn't do it, it doesn't take you one millisecond to say absolutely
do not have you ever been wrong before where you see someone on television ago, I think that guy is guilty and they were innocent. I servers sure because if, if You really want to know for sure If somebody is guilty or innocent, you need to just a lot of time. You need to get a baseline of what they normally look like talk like feel like and then by then Knowing that baseline, you didn't need to compare how they're being ng on tv, so just walking by the screen and seeing it you might see things that would ordinarily be lie. Behaviors that could just be part of their personality so you're going to really make a judgment of you. You got to put a lot of time in and figure it out and what you should do before you decide you're going to be a human lie. Detector is do your homework and you know try to figure it out objectively. Before you figured out behave early me out of do your investigation find
somebody took took the money and you'll find out where they were in look for fingerprints and do this and do that. I mean you really objectively figure it out before you rely on these things and so unless you get a baseline and get one on one with them and spend a lot of time, then you can't be. You can't be really certain that you know whether they're telling the truth or whether or not if it would be fun. If it was that easy. And that some people are pretty obvious yeah, I heard a cop once say that when people are guilty, they to plead and cry. And then, when they're not guilty, they tend to get angry when they're accused people that are wrongly accused are generally I right from the beginning till the end I mean every case is different.
But if you're wrongly accused that person is going to be pissed off from the minute you accuse until till the end, because it's like I'm their self, which is like I didn't do this and you're saying I did you yeah and they don't take a step back and when you you see people they do. This convincing statements and their pleading for you to believe, 'em and then anytime. Somebody says now In all honesty, you, believe the next thing other mousil I like I say Joe honestly Most everything else you been telling me: why are we break Getting this one out is all or if they invoke the deity. I swear to God. God
as my witness some you know, I don't know whether I have not done what I do you need to do with Jussie Smollett but I do know when he went to the set at fox. He said. You all know me, I where to God. I didn't do this and and mean they. Three or four of those kind of statements in like two or three sentences. There Well, my favorite ones is onstage columns of the Gate Tupac Park. That's enough for me, that's a little narcissistic. It's a strange thing, though, like there was another one today ugh I lit his house on fire and think in Chicago said said he's gay fella said as a hate crime and they caught him.
So a lot of that going on you know, but AFAIK crime very strange the then in terms of people accused people or something, and someone will say why would why would someone make something up? Why would someone turn themselves into a victim, but there's a lot of clout and being a victim, especially today there's a lot of you get a lot of attention. A lot of love, I think, there's a lot of false. His actions and false attacks, and Is a lot of real ones? but man when the false ones com put it just, does a giant disservice to everybody. Well, there's a fair amount of research as to why people do these hoax is an particularly hate crime, hoaxes and one of the primary motivation. Of course it's sympathy and attention, and all that, but one of the interesting reasons that I've read Interes urges that they really feel like it's emblematic of how the system treats I'm over all. This is just a dramatic example.
They feel like I'm treated this way anyhow, so they just screaming against us: suffer bias I'm put down. This is just a phone List example of that, so I'm really not lying. I'm just role playing how I'm overall treated oh wow, so they defined in their mind if they're just going to in all this treatment into one example to bring it into focus and so, while it's a phony deal. It really is true full representation of what their life is really like. The justified in that way how how weird? No that's yeah! That's a psychological out there yeah, let's stretch it. That's a weird one. We like when you write it out like put it in your mind that way. Yeah it's strange too, because it gives people this uhm,
this- is this giant public show to watch now yeah. I hate that feeling. What to the young man, the means using his of the I've seen I don't watch that show a lot, but the times I've seen him they're singing and assuming it is his voice and he's singing stream. Lee talented, young I find a lot of talented people are fucking crazy. Well, somebody somebody said that somebody said the the really talented singers and actors, the weird kids from high school that were in drama and all of that, I'm not sure. If yeah for sure yeah these levels of crazy, obviously not all deceptive, but you know some of them most brilliant actors, or just completely out of their mind, and that's one of the reasons why they are so good at acting because they can look. My What my friend Wayne Federman had a bit he did about on stage and he's like guess what it's not fuckin' normal to be able to just cry. Yeah goes,
just crying, pretend something's wrong and cry easily. That's crazy. These are crazy people and you really can't go to a certain place. If you don't have a little of that in you yeah my dad used to always say when he's working with patients, who would say some method. Oh boy. I can't stand about Maine as you say, you can't see it in them. If you don't have a little evidence, you yeah, I think, there's some truth in all. It is one hundred percent truth, and that is the thing that rising the craziest about weak people, I'm so terra. By the weakness and and and just just just just being pathetic I'm so terrified to seeing that in myself. I see it in other people, which is it smells. I smelled like a drug sniffing dog like oh there. It is yeah you smell desperation. Yes, we would make you do this. Why are you doing a podcast? I have always been a blabbermouth. I can never shut the up. I love
talk and and I've always been fascinated by human beings and their lives, and just talking to people and finding out like the guy before was this guy young, Grillo who's, a narcotics journalist, he's an Arco don't in Mexico I mean I couldn't wait to talk oh yeah. Let me just what a life he's been living in Mexico for eighteen years from England, I'm to go alive. So that's something right there yeah and he's telling me about friends that have been killed, and you know he's been in some sticky situations a few times, and you know I'm just fascinated by pit by people and what they like to do. You know I'm fascinated by athletes, I'm fascinated by assists. I just always been very, very curious and I've always recognized that everyone thinks about things differently and then I could take a little bit of something from everybody, whether it's from a book or from having a conversation with someone. I can gain a little bit of a little bit of it.
A little bit of knowledge little little bit of insight, you're, naturally very curious, because I I listen to you interviews and you're, naturally very curious. You don't struggle for the next question because you really want to something that makes it much easier does very lucky that I found this is stumbled into doing this kind of thing. Wasn't this way in the beginning in the big beginning, was just horse shooting with friends and it's but surely, as the the podcast became popular, I was like. I wonder if that guy would talk to me and then I will people on, and then it became more. All of these laws. Inform interesting conversations, yeah yeah if you're curious, about human functioning at all human nature at all, there's an endless menu things you can talk about, I don't care who it is. You could pull somebody out of a car on the street, you're curious. You can talk to him. 'cause everybody has a different take in life. Everybody has a different walk. Yeah
absolutely and what you're talking about you're interviewing all these athletes, I think people tend to write off athletic pursuits as being entirely physical and they're, not I mean. I think this is an easy way for people to look at it that don't engage or they never really thought about playing any in a very high level that it requires some intense thinking it might not require. Mathematics or large vocabulary, but understanding, what's required understanding when and how to execute understanding how to keep your shit together under pressure. Those are all intense really intellectual aspects of any. The high end athletic pursuit and there's a different, We took at that one the ball with the buzzer? Yes, there is, and it does not destroy Showboat, there's a different breed of cat that wants to yeah. I was that point yes and it's not always who you think, but that takes us
show kind of person that wants that pressure, yeah, knows they can handle it better than anybody else. You know it's a lot of times it's people that are entirely confident that they've done the work. You know, there's uh thing that happens with athletes where you not sure if you did enough and in fighters it's a very dangerous inclination, because it leads you to over train- and you have to be very careful about that because, with a fighter, You only can learn so much during your training camp like say it once you get into training camp. You got eight weeks depending on who you are some guys like to do a little longer, but the average Maybe eight hundred and twelve weeks is a long camp. You we have to know how to fight by the time you get to camp. So what you really doing is just kind of working on specific movements where you're dealing with and kind of fighter and then getting your body in shape. Getting your body, conditioned getting your mind, ready, preparing everything, cutting your body write down getting so you can win.
And have a good amount of Jesus another vitality can't train yourself to this complicated dance that goes on and that haunting. Did I do enough? Can cause this fighters to screw themselves over by overtraining. You have to have enough Conf and to know that you've done enough as well as enough. You have to you've done enough, but no you haven't done too much. This is really strange. Dance. You know in this this year this weekend is a giant UFC, Big UFC, two big title fights between four of the very best fighters in the world and uh I mean that is one of the most interesting aspects of the fight game to me is one watch these guys stare each other down the way in when they look at each other, and they know twenty four hours from now they're going to war, and just see like, is there a Justus mellowed out? Is there anything Is there anything in there? You know, and just knowing that,
this is probably one of the most difficult things in all of athletics and that these guys are going to there. Going to ply their trade in one of the most complicated things: it's a battle of physical, mental of mindset of will of conditioning and discipline and then it's also there's a lot. A random ship that happens? Do you think if I Can change at the and when people are looking at. Yes, yes, it I can change it. Can ship right then it can't change forever. By, like you could look, Jon Jones sideways upside down? You could stick your feet in a going to affect schitt. Some guys that are just Jones Bulletproof, there's certain guys that are just bulletproof look you in like they know what to do. The reason why is undefeated? You know he just he knows how to do. But then there's other guys that, like that, maybe like bugging me, it's a the
maybe an then the stare down. You look at the guy and you're looking like goddamnit, I'm fighting Yoel Romero. How to fuck did this happen and then you see drop down to seventy five, maybe seventy three percent confidence, seven thousand two hundred and seventy schitt. They look is traps got a neck that starts at the top of his head. You like off there's certain guys, they're just there in timit. Sing it way into I can change a little bit, but not for everybody there, certain guys it just it doesn't matter you can't get in there. There's certain champions like real champions like Mighty Mouse Johnson, is a bunch of guys like that. That are just champions, again it doesn't matter they and what they're doing they've done the work? The best in the business like you, You mean my gum and get aggressive. They might smile at you and make this a cute Try to make me nervous hilarious, see tomorrow, yeah, so is that because they know who they are
And it doesn't matter who this is or is it that they just don't they don't believe in this guy. They know who they are. I think, and they have reached a level of confidence when you get to a certain level of success. Like you know, Jon Jones has one loss in his record as by disqualification to fight thieves, destroying the guy and he was hitting the guy with. Really dumb rule, but when you throw elbows you're not allowed to throw a twelve to six elbow, meaning coming straight down. The only reason that exists is because, when makes largest? First being the first being sanctioned by athletic commissions. The people that were in the Athletic Commission had some nervous fears If they had seen like those late night, tv shows were karate guys are breaking bricks with their elbow driving straight down that they could kill somebody if they did that. So it's not have will limit that strike it's a dumb move and John Jones
get this guy with a couple, twelve six elbows and he was disqualified in a fight. He was just destroying the guy. So for a guy like that who, as this staggering resume of achievement is widely considered to be the greatest light heavyweight champ. Of all time, if not he's in the running of the greatest fighter. Ever of all time for like that he's. Not he's he's confident to the point of you know, he's he's he's not trying to just beat this guy. Although he's going to beat this guy he's trying to go down, history is one of the greatest of all time or the greatest of all time. So for a guy like that, it doesn't matter what you do he's a he's, a Michael Jordan type character. You know, there's a few of those guys out there. There's these Lebron James, is these Larry Bird. They exist in all sports. Have this mindset of a champion mindset
does he find angry or does he fight businesslike business like he's very businesslike, yeah he's very business like he just knows what he's doing the best guys. My business like this. Some guys have fight with emotion and they're, still really good, but, like fade or Emelianenko's is famous russian guy. He would. He would have a look on his face. He was cashing a check smashing you guys are orbit in mean he Just you know he was, the highest level of that, like that robotic, businesslike approach to fighting and then after he knocked unconscious, he help you get back up it was over once you shut it off, it was over. There's no no sign of heat on emotions were week. Showing emotions in a fight showing anger. All that was weak. I think there's a huge psychological component to it. I mean I agree completely giant cantik. I think you view, I think, if you go in with doubt man,
I think that's terrible terrible. Thank you. 'cause now, you're fighting yourself in them to remember the MIKE Tyson fights when he was in his problem. Remember looking those guys face. Oh yeah, there staring across the ring and I'm like, oh Jesus. What did I sign up for this thing? I don't know what the money was here, but it wasn't worth. It just seems like a good, the at the time was as life changing life defining moment when, when you were staring across the ring iron MIKE and it was like one thousand nine hundred and eighty nine map of the world and and you know he's going to come over there and hit you like you've, never been here before Yeah guns, blazing fear that yeah and he did yeah Meanwhile, you meet him now he's like the nicest guy in the planet. Earth yeah couldn't be sweeter. Guy yeah I'll talk to him today he's got a daughter, that's apparently a pretty good tennis player really and he's really behind her now and focused on that. That was him back then, because he came out of jail. He's fighting Peter mcneally.
You just let them know it's common baby. Terrifying and you know he was never- he was never his formidable after jail is. He was before he went in yeah. Well, there's a ton of factors His training was never the same. You know he didn't. He lost that connection with custom model. You custom it custom training when he was at his very best and then Kevin Rooney who work with. Because Mountain MIKE trained him after that, and then they eventually parted ways, and that was before the buster Douglas fight. Remember we had guys corner, didn't even have an ends. Well mean his. Swelling up and they didn't have ice to put on it. Yeah yeah. There was a lot of factors, but also When I talk to MIKE on the podcast the things was- and this was just him sort of coming with to grips
the fact that he never really had a child at his childhood was from the time was twelve years old custom model took him in was hypnotising him and teaching him how to fight tissue modified and hypnotising him to be a machine is going at night literally saying to him, you don't exist, the task exist. The job at hand exists. And you're going to go out there and you're going to get the job done and just telling this to a thirteen year old that never experienced love. He just was and band in homeless, and this is the only way he ever got any Positive reinforcement is life is by destroying people yeah, that's sad, but you know He seems to really be connected to his daughter. I mean you, you see a you see and hear a softness in his voice. He really is connected yeah. He learned. No, I mean it's easy to try to look at someone like who they were. You know twenty years ago, it's easy to do that. It's easy to say: oh he's, that guy, but people have
often they grow and he's a great example of that he's, a very different person. He doesn't even work out because he's worried about his ego, like he doesn't hit the bag or do anything like that. It's occasionally hum treadmill workout a little bit on a treadmill. Just get a little exercise in these worried about feeding. His ego was worried about like looking at himself in the mirror and bringing that old monster back again, really yeah, that's what he said: yeah I think you'd be afraid of not being able to get back to the level he was. I don't think he's afraid of that. I don't think he wants to be that guy yeah, he says he doesn't like that guy, but which is crazy, because that guys, who made him rich and famous, and everybody loves him, because he was that guy, who he is now is a completely different person, just a sweetheart, a real sweetheart yeah. He seems, like I mean you'd, never think to talk to him If you didn't know his history, you'd, never guess that was that guy yeah. Now you never would yeah. I think
the psychological aspect of fighting is one of the more intriguing parts of it to Maine, and you know for me: it's like probably one of the reasons why I got interested in psyche in the first place and the way people think about things, an and weakness like real weakness, so weak- Weakness can get exposed in a variety of different ways, but in petitions. When you really see it yeah, I'm one of the I have this theory in the east. We see it in sports or not. I saw it when I talk to him and he's been a friend of mine for a long time, and I was talking to him about his side. Ecology, as he goes into a football game, and he says he plays a movie in his mind of the entire game before he plays it 'cause. You know the football game you're going to have eleven or twelve possessions during the game just threw out football so you can get that ball eleven or twelve times and he would say, I want to carry that ball three or four times per possession, and he knows
the place is going to run. He would run him through his head. He would see if he would know who was going to be there to tackling moves. You know it read everything to his head and he's one of those guys. It wants the ball when the clock running yeah, but I have this theory that situations do not make heroes situations expose, he rose, and I saw that in Katrina the hurricane that so devastated that that one neighborhood what war Was it is the ninth ward I forget which one it was that got so wiped out when Katrina hit New Orleans and There was a guy down there that had been really quick nobody had ever heard anything out of him older guy lived in the house stayed to himself and that night, when the water was at rooftop level, I mean he swam rooftop to rooftop and save six
seventy eight people got him out of there and he didn't make it out, but he got seven or eight people out of there and you go back and you check his history. And he was a military hero, he just sat quietly in his home and when the situation came about it reveals who he was, and I think that's what happens. I think it you got a hero. They just sit. There sit there sit there until the Weisheng reveals who they are. I don't think it makes him a hero. I think it reveals that their heroes and I think that's what happens to people like they are, who they are until they get in the opportunity comes along and they're going to show you who that is they may show you there a coward where they I show you that they've got the focus to hang or they I show you that their hero, but life circumstances are going to.
Along we're going to show you who somebody is yeah. I completely agree and I think, what's so interesting is when someone does get revealed to be a coward, they can become a hero. It's very hard it's very hard to get past the memory of you being a coward well and I'll. Tell you why? I think that's true. If you want to know please let me maybe you don't I'm going everything going off on a tangent, come on I think I think we learn about ourselves and everybody talks about self human self worth, but nobody ever talks about what it really is or how we get it and I think I think about it in terms of self attribution, because you know how you form opinions of other people like if you look at this guy- and you may do you work with this guy, and so you watch him across a couple years and may
this guy shows up to work every day and he's there fifteen minutes early and he unlocks a place. Everything ready puts a coffee on. Has his desk ready he's all buttoned up and man when the Bell rings he's ready to go, and You just learn that this guys buttoned up ready to go dependable, never misses he's always there, so you attribute certain traits and characteristics to him. Based on your observations of him and your experience of him. Based on that. You assign certain traits and characteristics to him, but I say that's exactly the same way we form our own self image yeah. And our own level of self worth, we watch ourselves go through life and we watch how we handle certain circumstances and situations, an that's. Why I say over indulgence, is one of the most insidious forms of child abuse known to parenting. It's not the worst, it's just insidious because you,
you over in gold, your children and do everything for them, you've, never let them observe themselves master their environment, you never let them step back and say! Well, I did that I built. This I overcame that. I handled this. I did that and so that's the same way. We make our own self image and level of self. We watch ourselves overcome. The third grade watch ourselves stand up to a bully. We watch our self handle a test with uh information that intimidated us. We watch ourselves make it onto the little
big baseball team and actually get a hit when we needed to where we watch ourselves get onto the debate team and actually argue something successfully, whether it's academic or athletic or musical. We watch ourselves do it in so we go back and say hey. I did that. I attribute to myself the ability I can hang. I can do this. I can rise to the occasion or we watch ourselves fold like a pup tent in a windstorm and say I can't hang. I don't have it and we make attributions to ourselves, and so we shrink from the challenge for the rest of our lives until, like you said it's hard to overcome that and certain pushes you up until you finally observe yourself overcome something, and I think that's how we form our level self esteem, an our identity about who we are, and I don't think most people think about that look back
So, ok, how did I how to I get to as I sit in it You have a self image. You have a level of confidence and ego strength of the level of self worth. That's attributable to things you've watched yourself do or not do achieve not achieve overcome or whatever throughout your life an and I think to know yourself. You have to know what those things are. I think you're one hundred percent right and I and for children a participating in things that are going to test you so critical giving them this opportunity to realize that the the there's a line between success and failure and the you could push through that line you could. You could become successful at something and long by watching kids and that's why I think sports are so important for children. I think, and that's
one more insidious things about having these participation trophies for kids, where that nobody wins the game. Yeah everybody plays, but nobody wins. We don't keep score Hawaii, funk you plan yeah. I mean This goes down as an environmental non event. Yeah I mean that contributes nothing to your definition is just something to do it's also. Psychologically it's coddling. There is very damaging for your potential education that you would get from that situation, the bad feeling that you get when someone scores on you as motivation for you to be better at defense, yeah, not the yacht. I think we cheat kids when we do that. Of course, this your play, everybody I can. I get that not everybody is meant to be an athlete. So, okay, look good, go do something!
yeah be good at what you're good at and if you really want to do it well, you've got a long rd to agree still start running. Yeah is everything is not for everybody, so find what you're good at in watch yourself, a chief in that lane. You know that's like I could I can. I can't carry a tune in a bucket. I can't I can't even I can play no instrument, I can't saying I can play a radio, it's got a big on off knob, that's it, and so I don't try. I mean I'm just good at that. So I go in the lines that I can do stuff and observe myself in that, but I think you cheat kids. If you don't, let him observe themselves, face should in overcoming absolutely- and it's also an interesting lesson to learn that life isn't fair. I mean if you're a kid and you're playing, basketball! With a fifteen year old, Lebron, James and you're, my height, you go
Yeah this thing kind of workout at all, yeah you looking at it Oh boy here. This is not fucking happening and you have to be able to understand and appreciate that and then, conversely, if you're very physically frail You know maybe wrestling's not for you either. You know, maybe maybe you we need to do. Something about your body before you engage region sort of a combat sport. You know they did an experiment back in, I think, was the 60s. They did something called teach machines? Have you ever seen that now that the it was a shorter time, but they we took students in the class where they put the steps of learning the information so close together that there was never a failure experience it would say like the war of one thousand, eight hundred and twelve happened in one thousand eight hundred and twelve, then the next thing would say the war of one thousand, eight hundred and twelve happened in blank. You fill in one thousand, eight hundred and twelve I mean come on. Potted plant could get that right, so they put it together and they would teach
the information and they would teach it to criteria. Were you master the information you had it one hundred percent and they said wow. This is great everybody. So. Everybody made one hundred, everybody got the information, they truly did learn it there's no question about it. They learn the information, and so they did great and then they took him out of that program and put him back in the regular classroom and the first time they came to questions they didn't know the answer to the first time they didn't get. One hundred they came apart like a cheap suit. They panic, they didn't know how to handle adversity. They didn't know how to handle it when they didn't have the right answers. They didn't learn how to not be perfect, and so they scrapped the whole program shoes. He said you can't do this because that's not the way life is right, and if I mean it's, you
we're not teaching how the real world works. You might as well teach him to go on red and stop on green and in given the keys and put him out in life 'cause, that's not the way it works in those kids were absolutely screwed up when they got into a tree competitive environment, you can't be success only yeah. It doesn't make any sense. It's not see it's not good for you. If you don't learn from it. I mean that the whole idea about school is you're supposed to be setting kids up for the future. You supposed to be teaching them, not just information but teaching them how to learn and how to improve yeah, and that worries me. You know I read. Story not long ago when you students, I think it was at UCLA in law school complained and got a professor either disciplined or fired, because he required them to take a counter argument over something controversial like Ferguson,
He said what used you know, I don't know you that you're all on this point of view. Now I want you to prepare an argument for the other side and they all said of the the sub setting to a swift which can't do it. They went to the ministration complained while that's crazy because you may have to as a lawyer, you may have to represent someone who's and something you don't agree with. If that's, what you I do for a living right. Let me are you kidding me: they were like needed therapy uh. Like what the hell has happened here- oh my god That's so crazy yeah! That's not that's crazy! you know yeah there's a there's, a movement going on in this country right now, the the social justice movement and It leans in that direction that people don't
to look at things for how they are. They want to look at things for how they want them to be yeah that just I just don't understand, you cannot legislate that everything is going to be equal for everybody, because everybody's not equal, I'm sorry they're, not equal. They may be equal in terms of their value as a human being. Yes, but they're, not equal in math skills. They are not equal in how fast they run. They are not equal in creativity, they're, not everybody has their own value, but that doesn't mean Their marketable skills in an open society in an open market are going to be the same. Now it's ridiculous. I used to have. I had a joke and one of my special so two specials ago about there was a story about a woman who was guarding the White House. She was, the lone Guard at one of the doors, the White House and some crazy man broke in and uh
through the ground and just ran through the White House, and he was running around inside the White House for like three minutes before they. Finally some off duty. Secret service agent service. This guy, I saw like what the ones because guys run to the White House tackle this guy and that the joke was that people think that A woman can do everything a man could do I go and we could do everything a man could do. Is that true? and some woman who was in the crowd of stories stores like yes, I go that doesn't make any sense, here's. Why doesn't make any sense because and can't do everything a man could do. I go look it's, your kill, O'Neill and his dick is my face is and if the passes experience, seeing a Shaq attack on the raw. One person save the world run right over Maine I go, but if my wife and kids, regarding the White House, guess what I'm getting in
I love my family, but if it's between me and get like there's no way they're going to be able to stop me, I love them to death, but I'm a man and their women and if there's a woman guarding the White House, I don't care who she is I'll, fuck her up. It's not going to happen. This is crazy, but someone had this idea that they would the woman in charge of a very physical job. You should have a job, ant man with a violent temper, and he should be armed. Okay, This is the guy, that's keeping bad people from the Fuckit President yeah uh uh. Just I don't. I don't understand it just seems like you, gotta find your own lane I mean yeah. You don't want to put me in the NBA, yet physical things in particular and then there's also mental things. Look I suck at math cave. Everyone has a chance to work at CERN right. Everyone has chance to work at the large Hydron collider, including people that have no idea about physics. We're going to have
old time. Making these equations work. That's something about finding your own lane. Like you, I can add two and two and get five every time, I'm just not good at math, but I'm good with words. I can talk, I can read fast. I can and will, but I am not good with math. So I got myself into a lane where I talk for a living read. I talk, I it's yeah, almost eighty, if not quantitative, I can accept that I'm not suited for that. I mean what so that I don't feel bad about myself because of that once you do something and you're good at it, you can accept not being good at other things. It's much easier if you find the thing that you're good at whether it's gymnast dicks are singing or painting whatever the fuck? It is? If you could find a thing that you're good at it will make you it'll give you a feeling of self worth and you won't need to be good at everything. You can accept and you can enjoy other people being good at things as well yeah
I said earlier my dad was now calling. I would compare myself to that kid across 'cause. I had to damage personal truth, but I found currency because at that time, in my life I was a pretty decent athlete for this small school I was going to so that was my currency yeah. So now it didn't matter what was happening at home because I go strokes for being able to jump high and run fast at school, so that became my currency. So now, when I compared myself to him, ok, maybe my home life wasn't as good as his, but I could run faster and jump higher, so that became my currency. So now, ok that level the playing field for Maine yeah and so I would like you said fine, what you're good at at a given time. And do what you're good at yeah find something you love find something you're passionate about, and then you could also excel at and if you can work it out where it's your vocation in your application, you love doing it and you get paid for it then you're just double blessed and you got it right. 'cause, you
we're doing this and it works out. That's good yeah! You catch lucky breaks yeah! If you the end of that, but that's boy, that's lucky! Yes, it is then. If I just think if you're in your life and there's you don't have something that you're passionate about, I mean I don't mean that in a cliche shake. If there's not something where you wake up every day and there's nothing in your life that you're excited to do man, you need to go back to the drawing board, if all you're doing is just gross sending it out you get up every day, go to a job, you don't like do task, you don't care to do. And come home to a home. You know
want to come home too and wait to get up and do it again, the next day, your burning daylight, what the hell existence is that yeah? I just I don't. I don't understand that find something I don't care if it's gardening, or music or art, or after dicks or something fun. Something you're excited to do. Yeah expose yourself to different things with that very purpose of finding something that you love this reception out there there's something out there. I guarantee you something: yeah, there's something healthy not illegal. It's not going to be high risk, there's something you can do it's not going to kill you or put you in jail that you can be excited about. Yeah and I think it's one of the most imp fun things to do when you're a parent is to try to expose your kid to as many different things as possible to find those things for them. I got two boys, as you know, You know one of them really well, and I did that growing up, because my dad,
never took me hunting a single day in his life. He never took me fishing in a single day in his life. He never took me camping a single day in his life. He never took me to the lake in ever. Took me ski and building anything. So I I took them to all of those things I had no clue what I was doing, but I took a turkey huntin duck hunting deer hunting but see skiing, snow, skiing, camping? I did it all and to see what they liked. Let him pic yeah and boy when you don't know what you're doing as a dad that Sabich, yeah. Let me just little things like you go camping and you don't realize that setting your up on the side of a hill
even if it's like eight or ten degrees is a bad idea. You gotta get on flat ground. I mean it looks flat to me, but then I try not to roll down a damn hill. It didn't look like it was on a slant, but it was. You figure these things out as you go along with. I was glad I gave in those experiences so that to choose an they did and some of it like some of it. They didn't. Well, I don't know about it is, but I love J yeah yeah hey, loves you. He really enjoys spending time with you guys and traveling with you guys and yeah. We've got a a bunch of great trips, yeah he's an awesome. Guy really is so much fun He knows how to have a good time, and he says the same thing about you. You know how to have a good time. Yeah yeah Well, listen man tell people how to get ahold of your podcasts working to get it well, it's fill in the blanks and that's pm
I l in the blanks and yeah, I guess you could ever wear podcaster gotten right, yep, Itunes, all that jazz Itunes, apple stitcher, all the different places. There is right there, yeah, the handsome I asked a look at that. I mean how best that clean up nice do pretty good, though I see the good thing about being bald as you look the same all the time. Yes, that's true, then you save money on shampoo. You shave money on shampoo and I've been Bolton, so I was like twelve. So really my health not really early, wow, I've never play in college Well it my helmet off, look it I had an animal What the hell is going on here, my teammates to say what the hell is in your helmet is my hair shut up. I don't know why, but it just fell out. I guess it got knocked out. Well, the mustache works too well, some can't rock a mustache I'd. Look a little creepy was one yeah well
total porn, How do you do that? You got me a brace your weaknesses. I remember when I wrote my first book on Oprah. She said to you you'll, for you won't ever tell fun. It's got his big old, bald head right here on the front of it, for you know I'll make it a trade mark right for went hard on you, yeah she's. In the beginning, I got no complaints. Yeah I hear you she treated me pretty right. Yeah worked out great, hey thanks for having me on my plate. Are you going to come to mind absolutely right thanks man doctor Phil. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you. Everyone, tune into the show, and thank you to our sponsors. Thank you to butcher box one hundred percent grass FED and finished beef free range, organic chicken heritage breed pork all deliver to your door on dry ice with free shipping anywhere in the lower forty eight get twenty dollars off, plus free ground,
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Transcript generated on 2019-11-10.