Naval Ravikant is an entrepreneur and angel investor, a co-author of Venture Hacks, and a co-maintainer of AngelList.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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a brilliant man. I first heard about him on the TIM Ferriss Show and then from a bunch of people recommending him to me on Twitter. He is he's, he's an investor but more portly he's a thinker he's just a brilliant guy, and one of my favorite conversations I think ever. Please give it up for Noval Ravikant the Joe Rogan experience trying my day, Joe Rogan podcast by night all day much for doing this, and I really appreciate I've been or bring your information and listening to you talk for quite awhile now, so it's great to actually meet you thanks for having me. My are my pleasure. You are one of the rare guys that is you're a big investor. You are you're deep in the tech world, but
you seem to have a very balanced perspective in terms of how to live life, as opposed to just be entirely focused on success and financial success and tech investing, but rather how to live your life in a happy way. That's it's just not balance. You know. I think the reason why people like hearing me is because, like if it's like, if you go to a a circus- and you see a bear right- that's kind of interesting, but not that much. If you see a unicycle, that's interesting! You see a bear on a une cycle. That's really interesting right! So when you combine things, you're not supposed to combine right, get interested is a Bruce Lee right, striking thoughts, philosophy plus martial arts on, and I think it's because of some level all humans are broad were all multi vary it, but we get summarized in pity ways in our lives and at some deep level. We know that's, not true right. Every human basically is capable of
experience in every thought. Your UFC comedian commentator podcaster, but you're. Also more than that, you also Father lover. You know thinker at Cetera, so I like the model of life, that the ancients had the Greeks, the Romans right where you would start out and when you're young and you're just like going to school, then you're going to war, then you're running a business. Then you are supposed to serve in the Senate or the government. Then you become a philosopher this sort of this arc to life, where you try your hand at everything and, as one of my friends is specialization, is for insects, and so everyone should just be able to do everything, and so I don't believe in this model anymore of trying to focus your life down on one thing: you've got one life, just do everything you're going to do. I couldn't agree more and I I I think that sometimes people find certain success in whatever the endeavor is and then they think that that is their niche and they stick with it and
they never change and they do almost out of fear it's hard, because there's a the analogy around mountain climbing like if you find a mountain and you start climbing, you and your whole life, climbing it and you get say two slash three of the way and then you see the peak is like way up there. But your two slash three of the way there is still really high up, but not to go there. Just the way you're going to have to go back down to the bottom and look for another path. Nobody to do that people don't want to start over and it's the nature of later in life that you just don't have the time. So it's very painful to go back down and look for a new path. But that may be the best thing to do and that's why, when you look at the greatest artists and creators, they have this ability to start over that. Nobody else does like Elon will, you know, be called an idiot and start over doing something brand new that he supposedly is not qualified for or when Madonna or Paul Simon. Are you to come out the new album their existing fans usually hate it, because they've adopted a completely new
file that they've learned somewhere else and a lot of times will just miss completely. So you have to be willing to be a fool and kind of have that beginners mind and go back to the beginning to start over, if not doing that, you're just getting older yeah I mean, I don't even know if it's willing to be a fool, it's just to me that the most exciting things to try to get better at something to learn at thanks, really exciting when you just have incremental progress and something that you're completely new to. I live for the a ha moment that moment when you connect two things together that I hadn't connected to go before and it fits nicely in solidly and it kind of helps form a steel framework of under standing in your mind that you can then hang other ideas off of that's what I live for. Curiosity fulfilled what little children do to my little son is always asking why why why why why why and I was trying to answer him and half the times I realized. Actually, I don't really understand why I just have a memorized answer for you, but that's not really
standing yeah. Those are weird conversations right when you're you're talking your kids and say: look the reality is I don't know a lot of things. I just memorize a lot and there's certain things that you just can't know. Yeah you realize that you know you have you have answers for a few things that you've thought through then you sort of have cover ups land like trapped words like don't go here. This is just a cover up. I don't really know the answer to what's the meaning of life is or how we got here, yeah and then you've got a whole bunch of memorized stuff, because a lot of your lot of intelligence these days, just the external brain pack of civilization. I know it's out there under the answers, are out there and know how to come up and have memorized some of them and a kind of then how money works in the Federal Reserve prints it, and what this government thing is, but not really right, so not good enough to teach it in university yeah when people do that, with almost
everything in life these days, in terms of like have like a one page, a one cheat like a brief summary of what the the explanation for what this very complex subject might be: T l, D r right, don't give me the lecture. Give me the book. Don't give me the book. Give me the block past I'm giving the block post game with a tweet. Don't give you the tweet. I just I already know yeah. I got really fascinated by the way you read, because I thought there was something wrong with me by doing that, but you you don't really just read a book to completion. You read read, then you pick something else up and you just kind of go based on your whims, whatever you're interested in was raised by my I was raised by a single mom in New York and she used the local library as a daycare center 'cause. It was a very tough neighborhood, and so she would basically say when you get back from school, go straight to the library and don't come out until I pick you up late at night,
so I used to basically live in the library, and I read everything I read every magazine. I read every pictograph about every book or every map I just made our stuff to read. I just read everything, so I got over this idea of that reading, a large number of books or reading a book to completion as a vanity metric 'cause it really when people are putting a photos on twitter. In gram of look at my pile of books that I'm reading it's a show off and it's a signal yeah sure and the reality is. I would rather read the best one hundred books over and over again until I absorbed them, arrive and read all the books right, because your your brain has find out information in a defiant space. You get enough advice that all cancels to zero um there's a lot of nonsense and books out there too. So I don't read
the more to complete books. I read to satisfy my genuine intellectual curiosity and it can be anything it could be nonsense that could be history could be fiction, it could be. Science can be Scifi. These days is mostly Sci FI philosophy, science, because that's just what I'm interested in, but I will read for understanding so a really good book I will flip through. I won't actually be the consecutive in order, and I won't even if even finish it, I'm looking for ideas, things that I don't understand and when I find something really interesting I'll reflect on it all research it and then, when I'm bored of it all drop it or I'll flip to another book. Thanks to electronic book, I've got five thousand and seventy books open at anytime. In my Kindle or Ibooks, and I'm just bouncing around between them, it's also a little bit of a defense mechanism to how, in society we get too much information too quickly and so of attention. Spans are very low. So you get Twitter, you get Instagram, you get Facebook! You just used to be bombarded with information, so you can
take that to you can view there is a negative and be like. I have no attention span or you could view that as a positive, I'm multi task really well and I can dig really fast. I can, if I find a thread, that's interesting. I can follow through five social networks through the web through the libraries through the books, and I can really get to the bottom of this thing very quickly. It's like the library of Alexandria that can research at my disposal, so I no longer track books, read or even care about books. Read it's about understanding, Const yeah! You brought up two awesome points. First of all, the social media aspect of books and, basically anything it's like it's a weird way to display your life, because you know you displaying the the best aspects of your life and some sort of a glass case. You know what to it's an unrealistic version of your life that you cultivate and you curate and I'm I'm as guilty of.
Does anybody everybody's guilty of it I'm guilty of it too? You know I mean I pose with my dog every time I run what always signaling yeah it's like, rather than really looking at yourself you're. Looking at how other people look at you, this one remove mental image and it's kind of a disease does social media is making celebrities of all of us, and Liberty is the most miserable people in the world right because there's this strong self image that gets built up it gets built up by compliments every time. Somebody pays you or me a compliment and we're like. Oh well. Thank you right, then. That builds up in image of who we are, and then one idiot comes along one out of ten one out of one hundred and they can easily tear it down, because it doesn't take many incels to cancel out a lot of compliments and now you're carrying around this big, weighty self image, and it's just very easy to be attacked and because you're, famous or you're well known people want to attack you so
being a celebrity is no good. It's actually a problem like one of my tweets is these are all reminders to myself. Is you want to be rich and anonymous? Not poor and famous. There's benefits to it, of course, but we wouldn't do it. It has unusual problems that you don't get trained for, and you really will not understand less. You experience it. You know it goes this conversation with my wife, we're talking about people that just come up to you and then care what you're doing they don't care from where my daughter, if I'm holding her from feeding her for you, know where, in the middle of an intense conversation, she's crying, she could be crying and some bro will come over and just immediately have to take a picture, doesn't care his needs. Supersede the daughter and my wife saying that before she knew me, she used to think that that's just part of the price of being famous that people
for people, like you, that's just part of the price be famous and now when it inter uh her life and you know, interrupts the children and interrupts friends, and you know she now she's like this is annoying like this is not. This is not healthy. This is not a smart way to interact with people and that people have this weird channel. This weird thing that if you're come famous, there's this weird challenge where people just want to come to you, especially today, 'cause. If they get a photo all of you, then that is there social media profile Katy, I'm sitting here with the volume as well, and it is a privilege. On the other hand, the self inflicted I mean, we've got on ourselves yeah. We don't think we knew what it was, though we we did, but we carry on. So it tells us you know getting something out of it. So you know there are times when someone approached me in PA
in a little resentful and other times, and just like. Actually I'm really grateful that you know I work for this. I got this right. This is the pay off just a brace that smile grin and bear. It means you have a different sort of celebrity too right: you're you're, a hero amongst investors and amongst the and you've just been hero among young male geeks, which is just some of my favorite people right. But that's not the kind of celebrity. I think most people set out to get especially most guys right. You want the cute females yeah. I look at my brief little Youtube clips. I have a tiny little podcast going now and it's like now. Twenty five percent sure yeah. This is very highly eighteen to thirty five. What is the numbers? It's in the nineties? You do that one! You do that one very small podcast we just have small with three or four minute clips
yeah. So what it was. I did a tweetstorm called how to get rich without getting lucky and it got got pretty popular twitter, twitter and it's really about wealth creation. I just use the click baby title and it's trying to basically layout timeless principles of wealth creation that, if you absorb them, you become the kind of person who can create wealth, business make money, and my theory behind that is like. There are three things: everybody wants, this action more than three bullets at the start, with three the three base: everybody wants to be wealthy, everybody wants to be happy and everybody wants to be fit, and I know there's a lot of which is signal, one that goes on like we don't want to money, and you know I don't care about being happy and happiness is for stupid people, but, let's face in like you, want to be rich and happy and healthy. I think that's the trifecta. Now, of course, you also
one internally calm state of mind. You want to love a household, so there are other things that come into it, but those three I think they can actually be taught right and a fitness. I'm not gonna teach there a lot of people who you've had on here, including yourself, who know a heck of a lot more about fitness and health, and I do but I was born poor and miserable, and I'm now pretty well often I'm very happy- and I don't I worked at those and so I've learned a few things there some principles, and so I try to lay them out, but in a timeless manner, where you can kind of you're it out yourself, because at the end of the day I can't teach anything. I can only inspire you and maybe give you a few hooks, so you can remember things when they happen or put it put a name to them, so this podcast actually ended up explaining this tweet storm. So there's a tweetstorm like thirty six thirty eight tweets got very famous, got translated dozens of languages um, and these were principles that I came up with for myself
was when I was really young three hundred and fourteen and I've been carrying them in my head for thirty years and being sort living them and overtime. I just realized, like sadly or fortunately, the thing that I got really good at was looking at businesses and figuring out the point of maximum leverage to actually create wealth capture, some of that and do in a very long term kind of way. Not not you know. Banker crashed the economy riled out kind of way, but you know build businesses and help people and provide value kind of way, especially when applied to modern technology and leverage in this age of infinite leverage that we live in s o the podcast is explaining each tweet, so these are little three hundred and forty five minutes snippets. I don't like to say the same thing twice. I don't like toe explain in detail.
I just I feel like. If you have something original and interesting to say you should say it. Otherwise, it's probably been said better so that podcast tries to be information dense, it tries to be very concise, it tries to be high impact, it tries to be timeless and it has all the information. I think you need the principles that, if you absorb these and you work hard over ten years, you get what you want. So I've got the one on wealth creation. I'm going to attempt to do. One on happiness is a big word, but you know happiness and inner peace and calm, and all that, because what you want is you don't want to be the guy who seeds in life while being high, strung high stress and unhappy and leaving a trail of emotional wreckage with you and your loved ones, which is more common than not because you got a folk, this very hard to be graded. Everything you want the guy or the gal who gets there calmly, quietly without struggle? You want to be the person who's, the when there's a crisis
going on. You want be the calmest coolest cucumber in the room, who still also figures out the correct answer. If you can be, you are one of the things that you were saying is that you feel like happiness, is something that you can learn and then you could teach yourself to be happy, even just by a opting the mindset that you are happy person and proclaiming that to your friends, and so you sort of developed a social contract, I'm a happy person, and now I have to live up to that yeah. I've got hundreds of techniques, but how did you develop that one well there's just like their social consistency? Humans have a need to be highly consistent with their past pronouncements. The way I started, my first tech company was, I was working inside of larger organization and I told everybody that I'm going to start a company. It's like I hate this place and we would do my own thing. I'm going to be successful entrepreneur six months past nine months pass. Then people started you still here. I thought you wouldn't go start a company,
but we're lying right. That was the implication. So we kind of so this social contracts are very powerful like if you want to give up drinking right and you're, not serious about it. Let's say I'm going to cut back, I'm going to have only one drink, a night I'm going to only drink on. We kens, you tell yourself, but if you're serious you announce it on Facebook, you will tell you, France, you'll, tell your wife, you'll, say I'm done drinking, I'm throwing everything. The house you'll never see me drink again when you say that you know you're serious. So I think a lot of these are choices that we make and happiness is just one of those choices, and this is unpopular to say, because there are people who are actually depressed. You know chemically or what have you and there are people who don't believe that it's possible, because then it creates a risk once on them. It says, oh now, if I'm you're saying, if I'm not happy, that's my fault not saying, but I'm saying that just like fitness can be a choice. Health can be a choice. Nutrition can be a choice. Working part in making money can be a choice. Happiness is also a choice
if you're so smart. How come you aren't happy? How can you haven't figured that out? That's my challenge to all the people who think they are so smart and so capable, if you're so, smart and capable. Why can't you change this? There are a bunch of people, though, that actually take pleasure and being miserable there's something about the pursuit of excellence and of success that supersedes all other pursuits in their eyes. It is, it is the peak the pen, I called the most important thing: it's not a trade off. I would argue that now, when I say happy, happy is one of those words. That means a zillion different things right. It's like love right. What does that mean? Well, I love cheese yeah. I find it a little bit more tightly right. So let's go back to desire right. This is old old, but has wisdom, I'm not saying anything original but desire to me the contract that you make with yourself to be unhappy until
get what you want, and I keep that in front of mine. So when I'm unhappy about something I look for what is the underlying desire that I have that's not being fulfilled? It's ok to have desires your biological creature. Can you put on this earth? You have to do something you have to have desires. You have a mission, but don't have too many. Don't pick them up. Unconsciously, don't pick them up randomly, don't have thousands of them. My coffee is too cool. It doesn't taste quite right, I'm not sitting perfectly. Oh! I wish it would warm. Are you know my dog no pooped in the lawn? I didn't like that. Whatever it is pick your one overwhelming desire, it's okay to suffer over that one, but on all the others you want to. Let them go so you can be calm and peaceful and relaxed, and then you'll perform a better job, most people when you're unhappy like a depressed person. It's not that they have very clear, calm, mind they're too busy in their mind the sense of self
too strong there sitting indoors all the time their minds working, working, working there thinking too much. Well, if you want to be a high performance athlete how good of a task that are going to be, if you're always having epileptic see features if you're always like twitching and running around and like jumping your your limbs are flailing out of control the same way. If you want to be effective in business, you need a clear calm, cool collected mine. Warren Buffett is bridge all day long and goes for walks in the site. He doesn't sit around like constantly loading, his brain with nonstop information and getting worked up about every little thing. We live in an age of infinite leverage. What I mean by that is that your actions can be multiplied one thousand fold either by broadcasting at a podcast or by investing capital or by having people work for you or by writing code. So because of that, the impacts of good vision making are much higher than they used to be, because now you can influence thousands or millions of people through your decisions or your code. So
a clear mind leads to better judgment, leads to better outcome, so a happy calm, peaceful person will make better decisions and have better outcomes. So if you want to operate at peak performance, you have to learn how to tame your mind. Just like you have to learn how to tame your body. I love what you're saying Warren Buffett might not be the best example because he drinks like I think, six Coca COLA's a day and he eats mostly Mcdonald's and he still alive somehow. So that shows you that low stress is more important like shit. How old is he he's a fairly old man? Charlie Munger is, I think, in his nineties, right yeah. I mean it really far. I wonder what warrants doing you know. I mean just he's: got it no, that's by at four hundred am, but it's terra doesn't care. He doesn't care, I think he's just low stress stress is a big right, so he just enjoys that Coca COLA and that's probably maybe they is a tradeoff right, like maybe him, enjoying that junk food in that coke. Just ah that, please, king of the mind, is maybe better
and him just eating grass shots and then because our cells and and just being yeah just super. I worked up about everything. It's a if you need to glass of red wine and distress and calm down, that's probably better than you flying off the rails right right, and I think that that's applicable not just in business but in probably any pursuit, and I like what you're saying about allow that one thing to be your obsession, but everything else just learn: howto learn how to let things go pick your battles and we like to think that we we like to view the world is linear, which is I'm gonna put in eight hours of work, I'm gonna get back. Eight hours of output right doesn't work that way. Guy running the corner, grocery store is working just as hard or harder than you and me how much output is he getting? What you do? Who you do it with? How you do it way more important than how hard you work right? Outputs are nonlinear based on the quality of
work that you put in the right way to work is like a lion. You don't you and I are not like cows and to graze all day. We're meant to hunt like lions were closer to. Carnivores are omnivorous development development we are are to herbivore's. We don't tell vegans that sorry. Look. I wish all that stuff worked. I don't want to future generation will look back at us as worse than neighbors. You know because the Holocaust were committed with the animals, but they'll have artificial meats. That taste in our healthier is better than the real thing, so allegedly, allegedly, but so modern knowledge worker athlete. As an intellectual athlete, you want to function like an app which means you train hard. Then you sprint, then you read just then you re assessed. You get your feedback loop. Then you train some more than you sprint again. Then you rest, then you reassess this idea that you're going to have linear output just cranking everyday at the same amount of time. That's that's machines.
You know machines should be working. Nine hundred to five hundred humans are not meant. Work. Nine, not meant to work nine hundred to five hundred. No, I agree wholeheartedly, but that's it did for people that are working for someone, there's not really that option. So that's a four only the rub right that that's kind of where my tweet storm starts, which is first of all. The first thing: if you're going to make money, is that you're not going to get rich renting out your time even loi? The doctors were charging three four five dollars an hour: they're not getting rich 'cause their lifestyles, slowly, ramping up along with their income and not saving enough. They just don't have that ability retire. So the first thing you have to do is you have to own a piece of a business you need to have equity either? Is an owner and investor share huh or a brand that you're building that accrues to you to gain your financial freedom yeah, and I was really fascinated by another thing that you were bringing up about work and for yourself that you feel future, whether it's fifty or one hundred years from now, virtually
everyone is going to be working for themselves and I believe the way you put it is that information age is going to reverse the industrial age yeah. If you go back to Hunter Gatherer times how we evolved, we basically work for ourselves. We communicated and cooperated within tribes, but each each gatherer stood on their own and then combine the resources for the family unit. But there was no boy us hierarchy. How hard you know: you're like the third middle manager down in the farming age, we became hello, a bit more hierarchical as we had to run farms, but even those were still mostly family farms. It's industrial work with factories that sort of created this model of thousands of people working together on one thing and having bought is it schedules and times to show up the reality? If you have to go, I don't care how rich you are. I don't care whether you're like a top Wall Street banker. If you have to go, if somebody has to tell you if somebody can tell you when to be at work and what to wear and how to behave, you're, not a free person,
you're not actually rich, so we're in this model. Now, where we think it's all about employment and jobs and intrinsic in that is that I have to work for somebody else. But information age is breaking that down, so Ronald Coase, isn't it wanna miss? Who has this coast theorem, very famous theorem, but it basically just talks about. Why is a company the size that it is? Why is it company one person instead of ten people instead of one hundred instead of one thousand, and it has to do the internal transaction costs versus the external transaction costs? Let's say I want to do something: let's say: building a house. I need someone to come in and provide the lumber when developer right. Do I want that to be part of my company or do I want that to be an external provider? A lot of it just depends on how hard it is to do that transaction with someone externally, which is internally, if it's too hard to keep doing the contract every time externally I'll bring that in house. If it's easy to do externally and it's a one off kind of thing, I'd rather keep it out of the house: well, information, tech,
allergies, making it easier and easier to do these transactions. Externally, it's becoming much easier to communicate with people giggle Mommy. I can send you small amounts of money. I can hire you through an app. I can rate you afterwards, so we are atomization of the firm we're seeing the optimal size of the firm shrinking its most obvious and Silicon Valley, tons and tons of startups con. We coming up and shaving off little pieces of businesses from large companies and turning them is a huge markets. So it would look like the small little vacation rental market on Craigslist is now suddenly blowing up into air BB one example. That's what example, but what I think we're going to see is whether it's ten twenty fifty hundred years from now high quality work will be available. When I talk when I'm driving an uber we're talking about super high quality, work will be available in a gig fashion. Where you
wake up in the morning, your phone will buzz and you will have five different jobs from people who have worked with in the past or big referred to is kind of how Hollywood already works a little bit with how they organize for a project you decide to take the project or not. The contract is right there on the spot. You get paid a certain amount and you get rated every day or every week you get the money and then, when you're done working, you turn it off and you go to Tahiti or wherever you want to spend the next three months, and I think the smart people have already started figuring out that the internet enables this and they're starting to work more and more remotely on their own schedule on their own time and their own place with friends in their own way, and that's actually how we are the most productive. So the info nation revolution, by making it easier to communicate, connect and cooperate, is allowing us to go back to working for ourselves, and that is my ultimate dream. Even when I run a company and I have employees, I always tell people hey I'm to help. You start your company when you're ready, because I think that's the highest calling.
Maybe not everybody will get there, but it would be fine if we were even working. A ten person company or twenty person company is way better than working in one thousand person. Coming in ten thousand person company, so this idea that we're all factory like cogs in a machine who are specialized and have to do things by rote memorization instr action is going to go away and we're going to go back to being small groups of creative bands, individual setting out to do missions, and when those missions are done, we collect our money, we get rated and then we rest and reassess until we're ready for the next sprint. Is there ever been a study done on happiness and as it regards the size of companies? Not that I'm aware, but to me it's obvious. It's just obvious that smaller the company that happy you're going to be the more human. Your relations are, the legacy of rules to operate under the more flexible, the more creative, the one you'd be treat like a Hugh just 'cause you're able to do multiple things. You know it brings me to what is a subject that keeps getting brought up now.
What days is universal basic income with the oncoming apocal oops of automation? This is how it's being portrayed by Andrew Yang who's running for president. I sat down and talked to them about, is very compelling and he's a very smart guy and he's an entrepreneur himself and when he starts talking about automation and how it's going to just eliminate massive amounts of jobs and leave people stranded, what it do you when I know you're gonna, thinks about the future and I'm gonna fight. Now, as popular point of view, I guess I don't. I think it's a non solution to a non problem in, and I mean the in the sense that automation has been happening since the dawn of Time Elect. So we came along that put a lot of people out of work. Did it right lot of people carrying buckets of water and you know lighting lamps and all those kinds of things, and this was the concern with factories as well? Perhaps everything literally every single thing that comes even the printing press? Absolutely what it does is it frees people up for new creative works. The question is: not is automation going to eliminate jobs? There is no finite number of job.
We're not like sitting around dividing up the same jobs that were around since the stone age, so obviously new jobs are being created and they usually better jobs, more creative jobs. So the question is: how quickly is this transition going to happen and what kinds of jobs will be eliminated in what kinds of jobs will be created? It's impossible, looking forward to predict what kinds of jobs will be created. If I told you ten years ago that podcast it was going to be a job or that you know playing video games is going to be a job or commentating. On video people going to get job, you would have ask me out of the room. Those are nonsense jobs, but yet here we are so. Society will always create new jobs, civilization creates new jobs, but it's impossible to predict what those jobs are. So the question is: how quickly is that transition happening? All the reality is, even though everybody keeps talking about this automation apocalypse. We have record low unemployment. Explain that
transition Donald Trump! That's how it on saying is it's it's it's! I don't see it in the numbers. I don't see it actually happening. Russian is how quickly can you re train people? So it's an education problem, the problem in the? U B, I there's a couple of problems that you be. I won is you're creating a straight. You could yeah slippery slide transfer straight into socialism right the moment. People can start voting themselves. Money combined with receive rice is a matter of time before the bottom. Fifty one votes and sells everything the top forty, nine yeah and you did it just it it in and buy a slippery slope fallacies, notify us and not on a people like saying that, but they haven't thought it through. But the moment you start having a direct transfer mechanism like that in a democracy you're, basically doing it with capitalism, which is the engine of economic growth. You also forcing the entrepreneurs out or telling them not to come here. The estimate I saw for fifteen K year, basic income for everybody, would be three orders of current gdp and, of course, GDP was shrinking
responses. All the entrepreneurs fled, so you would essentially bankrupt the country. Another issue due by is that people who are down on their luck they're not looking for handouts. It's not just about money, it's also about status. It's about meaning and the moment. I start giving money to you and put you on the dole. I've lowered your status. I've made you a second class citizen, so I to give you meaning and meaning comes through education and capability. I have you, have to teach a man to fish, not to basic. They throw your writing leftover, carcasses that him and say here eat the scraps, so it doesn't solve the meeting problem and, lastly, Constance to hand fifteen k out to everybody. You want to me these test people there's no reason to give it to you and me, so you end up back towards the welfare system where you do have to figure out who needs it and who does so? I think the better route is that we actually establish a set of basic substance services that you have to have an. We provide those
abundance to technology technology, automation, so get basic. Housing get basic food, get get basic transportation, get high speed. Internet access get phone in your pocket; those are the kinds of things you want to give people and finally, in terms of the rate of automation, I think we can educate people very quickly. One of the myths that we have today is that adults can't be re educated, review. Education. Is this thing where you go to school? You come out when you're out of college and you're done no more education. Well, that's wrong! You have all these great online boot camps in code is coming up there, one that will even pay you to go there. Now you can educate people and mass and you can educate them into creative professions. People who are talking about AI automating programming have never really written serious code. Coding is thinking. It's automated structure, thinking an a I that can program as well or better than humans is an ai that just took over the world. That's end game, that's the
of the human species on, and I can give you arguments why I don't think that's coming either um people who are thinking- and I know I take the opposite side from Seville. The famous people in this debate, but we're nowhere near close to generally I not in our lifetimes, you don't have to worry about it. Even in our lifetimes. Really, it's overblown it's another initial Cassandra Complex. You know it's fun to talk about the end of the world, combined with a God complex, like people who los religion so they're looking for meaning in some kind of end of history right. The reason I don't think AI is coming anytime soon is because a lot of the advances and so called ai today or what we call narrow ai. They really in pattern recognition machine learning to figure out like what is that object on the screen, or how do you find this signal and all that noise? There is nothing approaching what we call creative thinking to actually model general intelligence. You run into all kinds of problems. First, we don't know how the brain works at all
number: two we've, never even modeled a paramecium or an amoeba, let alone a human brain number. Three. Is this assumption that all of the computation is going at the cellular level at the neuron level, where nature is very parsimonious? It uses everything disposal, there's a lot out of machinery inside the cell, that is doing calculations that is intelligent that is accounted for and the best estimates I would take fifty years or more law before we can simulate. What's going on inside a cell near perfectly, and probably one hundred years before, we can build rain that can simulate inside the cells so putting it at saying, but I'm just going to model neuron is on or off and then use that to build a human brain is overly simplistic. Furthermore, I would pause it there's no such thing as general intelligence. Every intelligence is contextual within the context of the environment that, since you have all environment around it, so I think a lot of people who are peddling generally ai, the burden of proof, is on them. I haven't seen anything that would lead me to indicate we're approaching generally ai instead solving deterministic close set finite problem
using large amounts of data, but it's not sexy to talk about that. If you're talking about mirroring the actual abilities of cells or you talking about recreating the actual mechanism like what what what is going on inside cells and and biological organism yeah, we just don't know how intelligence works right. We don't know we'll be on no idea. So most of the a I approaches basically say: we're gonna, try and model how the brain works model at the neuron level, which is saying this neurons on that neurons, often combining their signal. But I'm saying that one is a cell inside the cell. There's all this machinery going on that's operating the neuron. That is also part of the intelligence apparatus. You can't just ignore that an abstract that out you have to model it down to the inside the cell level. It's also part of the biological organism itself, and it has all these needs that you know the bye logical organism has to have food
getting rest and balance going on. But when you eliminate all that, when there is none of that and it's just calculations- and we get to a point where it's just this thing- that we've created- whether you call computer with it, doesn't have to be moving thing even but uh thing that you created that stores virtually all the information is available in the world stores, all the patterns of all the thinking of all great people that have ever lived all the writers, all the people that have published anything all the people that have ever spoken. Any words store is all of their points of the counterpoint, all their contradictions, plies logic and reason, and. Some sort of sense of the future and starts in proving upon patterns and then starts acting on its own based on information, that's been provided with well. First, you would have to actually
simulate a structure of the human brain that can hold all that information, some with tens of thousands of brains worth of information right. We can't even well one brain the next decade or two or three well in terms of an actual physical brain. Yes, but what about something that recreates? The abilities of a brain I didn't like said, is parsimonious, so we've got this three dot: zero wetware object that can hold all this data. Nature has been very efficient in evolving kind of how we get there. Just don't think computers are anywhere close to that, like that it can hold that amount of data with that complexity would like the holographic struck to the brain. Where can recall in many many different ways, and then I don't think you can evolve a creature to be intelligent outside of the boundaries of feedback in a real medium like if you evolve. If you raised a human being a concrete cell with no input from the outside,
they wouldn't have any feedback from the real world they run evolve properly. So I think just dumping information into a thing isn't enough: it has to have an environment to operate in, to get feedback from it needs to have context, but isn't that biological I mean what if you, if you have just the all the information that people have accumulated and the lesson people have learned and you program that into the computer like if, if we can take a computer that can beat someone in chess, the real question was: what can we make some sort of an artificial intelligence could beat someone ago, which is four more complex, a chest? They figured out to do that too, and that was a giant shock right. These are still man made very closed. Bounded games there now they're, not on the road to the unbounded game of life. They are completely artificial, but this didn't
so didn't that. Give you like a little bit of a pause. A little bit go is not go or league of legends of fortnight they're. Not completely deterministic right, but they are still very artificial. Very bounded games being good at go, doesn't thing that you can then suddenly figure out how to write great poetry right, create tivity for sure is something. That's creativity is the last frontier. So I do believe that automation over a long enough period of time will replace every non creative job or every not creative work, but that's great news. That means at all our basic needs are taken care of, and what remains for us is to be creative, which is really what every human wants yeah. When what do you do right now? This is a creative job sure that brings us back to the the idea of meaning and universal basic income. I think the I giving someone fifty thousand dollars a year doesn't necessarily
cause whatever what everyone would worry about is people being on the dole. You would have bunch of listless people out there with no meaning in life, but the idea is that fifteen thousand dollars a year- and I'm not necessarily sure I agree with this- I'm not uh, not even endorsing this, but that fifteen thousand dollars a year. We just provide you with the necessities to get by in life. It would give you food, it would give you shelter, that's not going to stop at fifteen, because the moment so, like I mean fifteen, like their people, demand more Bernie Sanders will be on to one thousand six hundred and seventy five thousand dollars a year. These companies are too big, it doesn't stop it. Just it just goes all the way to bankruptcy. The concern is the slide to socialism. It's odd
obvious. I mean heck. If I was on, if I was not working and I was getting my fifteen year, I would happily work for the guy. Who would give me twenty or twenty five is just common sense. What do you say to the people that don't believe that there is such a thing of ethical as ethical or compassionate capitalism, and then there's many people today that are espousing marxism and their spouse sing some sort of a socialist society where they believed capitalism is screw people over and eliminated the middle class and their absolute problems that capitalism? I think monopolies are a problem. I think that crony capitalism is a problem with the government. You know kind of gets in bed with them and sort of forces things I think the bank they have really. You know, raped society and the rest of us are suffering for it yeah. They have essentially taken huge risks where they privatize the gains in the socializing losses. So when it fails, they basically get billed out in bankrupt. Everybody else.
So capitalism got in a really bad name. Let's talk about is free exchange, free markets, free markets and free exchange intrinsic to humans, from when the first person started a fire, and somebody came along with a deer and said: hey if I cooked my dear and your fire I'll share some of it with you right so specialization of labor. We trade, that's built into the human species. Basic math comes from accounting, keeping track of debts and edit and so on. We need to be able to engage in free trade. The correct criticism of capitalism is when it does not provide equal opportunity, and so we should always strive to provide equal opportunity, but people confuse that with equal outcome. When you have equal outcome that can only be enforced through violence, because different people, free people make different choices and when they make different choices, they have different outcomes. If you don't, let them suffer the consequences of bad choices or reap
rewards from good choices. Then you are forcibly redistributing through violence. It's interesting that there is. There are no socialist working socialist examples that this without violence. You basically need someone to show up with a gun and say: okay, you're not allowed to do that. You hand this over to that person. So one of the reasons why did this podcast is because I believe everybody can be wealthy everybody, it's not a zero sum game. It is a positive sum game you create so brand new. You exchange it with me for something brand new I've created, there's higher utility for both of us. The some of the value created is positive. It's not like status where it's like are higher up. I'm lower down your presidents. I must be Vice President Europe. It's one, I'm a minus one and has to cancel to zero. We should be all for playing positive, some ethical games. The problem is because of these looters who have ruined capitalism name. Then you get socialists coming in and saying burning the whole system down right. You burn the whole system down we end up like Venezuela or the former Soviet Union. You know you don't want to be
failed. Socialist states with emaciated teens hunting cats in the streets to eat right. That's literally what happens in some of these places, so I think it's very import not to destroy the engine of progress that brought us here did that socialism just hasn't worked yet that it means to didn't. We just need to do it right. If we do it right, we can you, if you ever hundred hundred million dead, divided yeah. Well, let's keep trying all over the world and every single time it's been implemented D. If you ever had a conversation with someone who's, a socialist to where we are many times so my better better friends or social, really, we we really get into it yeah, and what does that mean? Does anyone have a compelling perspective at all? I, I think really. Socialism comes from the heart right. We all wanna, be socialist capitalism comes from the head because there always cheaters these cheaters system systems and there's incentives in any system. So
when you're young, if you're, if you're, not a socialist, you have no heart when you're older, if you're, not a capitalist, you have no head right, you haven't thought it through. So I understand where it comes from. I always like miss him, tell us for him to come this way. He said with my family. I am a communist with my close friends. I'm a socialist! You know at my state level, politics, I'm a democrat at you know higher levels, I'm a I'm a republican and at the federal level in a libertarian right. So basically the larger the group of people you have mass together who have different interests. The last plus there is the more cheating there is, the better. The incentives have to be aligned, the better the system has to work. The more you go towards capitalism, the Sma all of the group you're in you're, in a kibitzer in your commie in your in your house, your in your tribe. By all me, this be a socialist with my aunts with my brother with my cousins and my uncles mom, but family, I'm a socialist! That's the right weight live a loving, happy integrated life, yes, but
you're dealing with strangers. I mean you want to be a real socialist grade, open all your doors and windows tomorrow. Please everybody come take. What she wants, yeah that works out yeah. This idea of income inequality- that always text me, is a very it's a deceptive term income inequality. While it's flip it around. It comes from outcome, inequality, yeah and the outcome. Inequality is there because you made different choices now again going back. It was because they don't have the same opportunities. That's a problem! Yes, so society should always try to give people equal opportunities, so, for example, instead of basic income whoa. If we had a retraining program built into our basic social fabric, which said that every four there every six years or whatever it is, maybe it's every ten you can one year out and will pay for you to go retrain completely and can go into any profession. You like that, has some earning power in output, hopefully a creative, long
term profession, and you can re educate yourself. That would be much better for society on all levels. Then, basically, just saying that you're going to be there for the rest of your life yeah, I just have to leave a horse to water and then make him drink. It requires people put in some effort yeah. You know we can all just sit around. It's just not well, that's my my perspective on income inequality, there's always effort in quality in the end and thought any quality. There's some people that are obsessed and if those people become successful, it doesn't mean they stole from you. It just means they put in the amount of energy and effort that that's required to reach where they're at and there's a lot of, which is signaling that goes on now. People say was because you're privileged yeah. Well, you know they're, not the greatest privileges, your life. Eighty five percent of humanity is dead yeah, so how Priligy then you're living in the first world and you're? You know you have four limbs etcetera, so you can take that argument all the way. It's kind of nonsense, discussion, what's a very weird progressive argument and it as it pertains to ah race, is always a weird one right because white privilege to.
Although you could look at what they're saying on paper like yes, yeah, I'm sure there is more black people that are harassed by the police. I'm sure there is more blue people who are treated suspiciously by shop owners in the light, but the prob isn't the people who aren't treated poorly. The problem is the people who treat the people poorly problem is racism. The problem is not people that didn't has to be born white or whatever they are, and they don't get harassed. So idea of white privilege, your male privilege or whatever it is. That's not the problem. You're you're, just looking at someone who's, not a victim of this particular problem that you're highlighting but you're, not looking perpetrators of the problem. Your make teen people perpetrators by simply existing and
having less melanin in their skin or having their ancestors come on it she's wrestling by another, hey, races, yeah, and then they say you can't be racist. You, it's not racist, because you're white right, that is, that is hilarious. If you can't be racist against white people that one well, this is a variation of the whole. Still when I hit you argument, you know it's not struggling while I'm hitting you, but it's just so silly. You've just completely change what racism main, but what's hilarious, is it mostly the people who are yelling racist and not the minorities? When I look at my twitter, my social media, or on my news, it's white on white, violent virtue signal yeah, it's white on white violence, mostly going on, is elitist. Whites, blue state whites, college, educated, whites, beating up on high school, educated, whites, blue collar. It's a white collar is a blue collar war. That's going on and the rest of us are just kind of watching like us kind of
interesting. Well, it's also a side effect of the ability to broadcast right, like everyone with a twitter handle, has the ability to broadcast everyone with a facebook page has the ability to Pontific eight and have these long rambling. These huge statements that people put out when you read them, it's like how much time did you put in this with what do you not much time your kids, your kids, but your life with your future planning for you, you know how much do you work out? I mean these just read some people's Facebook Post. I'm like this is a preposterous amount of effort put into saying virtually nothing. Let's see humans being creative, a I do that. Well, that's true. It is create it's creative in a very odd way, right, 'cause, it's creative and that they're trying
NG to elicit a response from people know trying to raise their. There is social value or raise their their position on the social totem Pole, it's signaling and it's easy signaling, because the kind of thing that everybody has to agree with you on, because the way I want to be seen as a horrible person yeah, it's a very hard to make the nuanced arguments against that, and this is go along right. Well, it's uh! So it's some of it is so cliche that it seems like I one guy who poses a woman on Twitter, but he does it just yeah. What is the name? Tatiana Mcgrath? Yes, yeah you have, you got frail, Wick yeah! Oh! Is that the same guy that solarius I didn't they killed? His account feels account for one hundred percent for pretending to be transracial. That's right. They didn't live there. He basically says all the crazy stuff
people on the left say, but he says the craziest version and kind of just shows how it's ok. So I think I saw a tweet from recently just said or her that it's not ok to be white and then some people agree, but it's it's so close to what they say. It's so close that it's like the most art form of subtle parody, because it well, if you, if you replace in half of these things, if you place the word white with black or asian one moment, while Lynch MOB decide yeah yeah, it's it's a strange time in that respect that the vizier EVA so much as to, if you want to see who rules of it over you see who you're not allowed to Chris Excellent yeah. That is that's so true, right, yeah! That's so true! I wonder where this is going. I really do I'm what I wonder, because this is. It seems like this new found ability to broadcast that we have with. Would you have you to page where you have twitter, whatever you're doing this
new found ability to bread, whatever you're trying to say to so many people, with very little understanding on the most part from it's actually a great thing overall yeah, I do not mean that any human can broadcast any other human on the planet at any time. So, for example, if you know a tough tarian dictator were to come to power and some was beating up, you know had fascist, speeding up an old women like that, would get broadcast out instantly. There would be an instant outrage, hue and cry rallying, so in that sense it helps bring attention to the plight of anybody. But right now going to the phase where we had this newfound power to assemble mobs and people, don't know how to deal with that. So it becomes very easy to set up a mob and have it attack. Somebody take all the context out. Like even conversation, I'm sure people will take out snippets, put him on social media and try and get somebody outraged, of course, and you have to learn how first of all sizes to get over this idea of
ridge like to me like out rich people, people get easily outrage of the stupidest people on social media, those the people that block in it's just kind of very low level. Thinking right these so that foot the foot soldiers in the mob, eventually society just has to get over it. They have to understand that these are all snippets being taken out of context. These are doctored video clips. These are just someone who's trying to get outraged over something. Eventually, they will also be anti mob tactics like, for example, if, if I go to someone's twitter feed and all it is, is full of political political ranting raving conspiracy theories. Do I want to work with this person? Do you want to associate with this person? Do you want to be friends with this person? Their mind is just cluttered with junk. I don't necessarily blame them. I think that the human brain not designed to absorb all of the world's breaking news, twenty four slash: seven emergencies injected straight into your skull with Clickbait Headline news. If you pay attention to that stuff,
even if your well meaning, even if your so mind and body, it will eventually drive you insane. This is goes back to clockwork Orange. Where he's had his eyes, conductance forced to watch the news, but I think that's what's happening right now, because these are addictive right, twitter, Facebook, Instagram. These are weaponized, you have social statisticians and scientists and researchers on people in lab coats, literally best mine, our generation of figuring out how to addict you to the news and if you fall for it, if you get addicted, your brain will get destroyed and think this is the modern struggle, the modern Ruggles. So the ancient struggle used to be the tribal struggle. You had your tribe of things and family. You had your religion, you had your country, you had your loyalty, your nationality. At least you had meaning and support, but now you would struggle against other tribes. Modern life were so free everything's become atomised, we stand alone, you live in your apartment alone. You live in your house alone, and your parents don't live nearby. Your friends don't live nearby, you don't have any tribal,
you don't believe in religion anymore. You don't believe in country anymore. It's fine. You got a lot of freedoms fantastic, but now when they come to attack you you're alone, and you can resist so how do they attack you? It's all well, meaning I don't fault capitalism of capitalism, but look at how it happens. Social media they've, massage all the mechanisms to addicts you like a skinner, pigeon or a who is just going to click, click, click, click, click can't put the phone down food they've taken sugar in their weaponized; it they put it into all these different forms and varieties that you can't resist eating drugs right, they've taken pharmaceuticals and plants and they've synthesize them they've grown them in such a way that you you get addicted. You can't put him down porn if you're, a young male that you want around the internet. It will like sap away your libido and you're not going out in real life society anymore, because you've got this incredible
stuff coming stuff coming at you, video games, Dick people, so you have this. You have entire large entire. These are people that are working to addicted to these things and you stand alone. So the modern struggle as an individual is learning how to resist these things in the first place, drawing your own boundaries and there's no one there to help you that's terrifying. I mean it is, I said, new road that needs to be navigated by young people that are there's no map. There's no guidebook on how to handle this. Our generation is the transition generation. I think, will know how to handle it better, 'cause they grow, but I hope I hope I hope to use your saying some ridiculous behavior from people today. That's so common I mean I don't know if you've been paying attention to this, but there was a guy who
of a video and turns out it wasn't even him that made the video at least that's all. He said, but it was a video where he sort of doctored Nancy Pelosi talking and made it look like she was drunk. I did a bunch of people retweeted it and, like, oh, my god, look, she's, drunk and, and so one of the online publications. Some website tracked him down just him and turned out he's just a day laborer who was an african american Trump fan and thought it would be funny to do that and it turns out that he didn't even quoting him. He actually put it up on his facebook page. What's even more disturbing, is Facebook gave up information to this website for what. Because he made something funny that made people seem drunk, there's a million of those about me. I mean you, you could find them. I mean, I think Facebook and twitter and
a bunch of these other social media platforms are committing slow motion suicide through these kinds of activities. That was a stunning one, though, that they would give up this guy. Who is a laborer because he made a parody video or he made someone look foolish with editing. Well, you not have basically the media views it as their job to go after Individ. They don't like. You know that I use the media with air quotes. In that regard, is I don't think this is something that the New York Times would have done anything responsible, but the media is getting more and more desperate, right 'cause. What happened was before the internet and you could have two local newspapers in every town and you could have two local news stations, tv stations in every town and then CNN came along and started commoditizing the news twenty four slash: seven broadcast. Then the internet came along. That was the final nail in the coffin, because what the internet did was it said. Actually, if there is a fact that snooze you can distribute that immediately, they can go on twitter. It can go on Facebook. It gets a reprint Google NEWS, one thousand times. You know you going Google NEWS you're like okay. What's the piece of news which source
three thousand other articles, Newman many so knew has become commoditized, so the entire news media has shifted into peddling opinions and entertainment, and so now they've become a variation like cheerleaders shock troops. Enforcers know talking heads so these now tribal. These are not propaganda. Signaling for their tribes. It's a right wing ones, left wing, one right, there's the alt right! There's a control left and the two of them were fighting it out using their various media organs and means. So, basically, when you see one of these news organizations doxing individual, that's like at pink running over a soldier, that's what's going on it's just war, and so there's no there's no such thing anymore. As a neutral media commentator, the illusion of objectivity that journalism had is lost is no longer one guy little Walter Cronkite that everyone's going to listen to its now. This shock troops fighting wars with each other. How this play out? Have you thought about it,
yeah a little bit so what the internet does? A lot of this is internet driven. What the internet does is the internet creates one giant aggregator or two for everything: one taxi dispatcher, one e commerce door, one search engine, one one social media site for friends and family, one for business, etc. So the internet is this giant aggregator, where it creates one big hedgeman for everything, and it creates an atomised long tail, millions and millions of individuals what it gets rid of is the the medium sized ones in the middle, so for people you might have had like seven huh with studios. Let's all give me Netflix, you had you know like ten law, e commerce, players, commerce, players from Walmart passcode, you know came right whatever not just gonna be Amazon and a ton of small individual brands. So that's the world that we're headed towards
and millions of individuals, so where it ends up long term, is media will be a few. Gigantic outlets could be the New York Times. It could be Facebook if you that and there's going to be just a really long tail of millions of independent people. So this idea of is a journey. Listen who is not you know, is Assange. Journalists or not everyone through journalists. That's the world that we're headed towards. I do think the extreme power, the most powerful people in the world today- and this is not well known, but the most powerful people in the war today or the people who are running the algorithms for twitter and Facebook and Instagram, because they're controlling the spread of information there little the rewriting people's brains, their programming, the culture and they're doing it very subtly, like Google. I believe that you know one of the execs got up in front of Congress and the congressman asked him do. Do you manipulate search results and he said no. We do not manipulate search results. Really, that's your job! That is literal
all google does. Google has one job which is to manipulate search results, the pull the noise and rank them properly and the out the precise algorithms of how they do that is very hidden, very complex, but influences the hearts and minds of everybody, including all the voters. Now, if Google, Facebook and Twitter had been smart about this, they would not have picked sides. They would have said where publishers, whatever goes through our pipes, go through pipes. If it's illegal will take it down, give us a court order. Otherwise we don't touch it. It's like the phone company. If I call you up- and I say something horrible to you on the phone, the phone company doesn't get in trouble, but the moment this started taking stuff down that wasn't illegal, because somebody screamed they basically cluster right to be viewed as a carrier and now all of a sudden there they've taken on liability, so they're are sliding down the slippery slope into ruin. Sloping to ruin where the left wants. Him take down the right, the right wanting to take down the le, and now they have no more friends. They have no allies. Traditionally, the
material, leaning, Republicans and Democrats would have stood up in principle for the common carriers, but now they want so my guess is as who does Congress. This is the day is coming, if not already here, it might even been here today. Actually cuz. I saw something related in the news. The day is coming when the pilot to realize that these social media platforms are picking the next president, the next congressman, they're literally picking, and they have the power to pick so they will be controlled by the government. In what way I think, they're going to be controlled, you think they're going to have to adhere to strict principles of freedom of speed. No, no first, fortunately, unfortunately headed the opposite direction. Right after I wish it was freedom of speech, much more likely, they're going to be in the short to medium term, going to be holding for hearings, they're going to be pressured massive. Do this don't do that? My for my concern about that is that the hearings are so would soccer Berg. This people are completely incompetent. They don't seem to understand they don't but they're, just applying pressure. The
trying to scare him so he'll do what they want and what do they want him to do they wanted to. Basically, we suppress the other side, so right wing. You want to suppress the left wing for left. Do you to suppress the right wing and if you just see where these companies are headquartered in Silicon Valley, all the sensors and that's, but they are there. Sensors working inside these companies that are just called the call by different names obviously writes doublespeak. You call it the department, Defense Department of WAR, so in this case the Department of Safety and trust. When really it's a department of censorship, the sensors are inside Silicon Valley. So it's going to reflect silicon values, politics which is extreme only progressive left ring and if you're, not that you really have no place, there's try being a conservative and open conservative at Google. Good luck! Now you get lunch. Yes, it's crazy! I mean. I don't think that there was ever a thing like that that was so influential and so politically ideologically one sided.
There's a there's, a little saying on the internet. Things call conquest law that any organization, that's not explicitly left the right wing eventually becomes left wing, and I don't know why that's true, but it it does seem to me to be true. What's a it's, a fascinating battle, that's going on right now I mean it really is, and conservatives and as far as social media is concerned, they're just getting chopped off at the hams left and right. What will eventually happen is that whenever you suppress speech the organism metastasizes, then it has to start turning towards other means. If you're unlucky goes towards violence, if you're lucky, they find other outlets, I think what will happen is we will start creating decentralized media, that's not owned by any single entity that can't be suppressor shut
down. That will then start spreading these various things and that will take the place of twitter or Facebook or what happened, but it's going to take ten years. Twenty years is not overnight. Well, you know Twitter took ten years to get to the point where it's at this mess right now, but it was so interesting to have Jack Dorsey and to talk to him about where it's going, where you think so going then his own principles, which he believes that it's a fundamental right and he believes that freedom of speech is something that we all should have and that these platforms should essentially be like. Like utilities like the electric company check, is correct and he has the right vision, just he's in an organization where the other individuals in the organization feel differently very differently through the organization itself can get hijacked and his timeline for changing things. It's like it's decades. I mean I I don't I shouldn't say decades, but I mean I was like. When do you think that something? But there was a there- was one idea
of having an uncensored twitter like one twitter, it's the wild West, like you can have regular twitter or you could try wild West Twitter. Well. That that already exists is a network called gab, yeah cabins and even wild West Twitter. When when people docks people well they remove things like that yeah I mean, I think, there's certainly lines around violence in reality that you don't want to cross. But gab is closer to free speech platform, but it's will not decentralized, they can still get shut down. Could you get taken out? It's also Sopr just heavily yes, so that so there and the people on there are right now, extremely right wing. So it's not a pleasant place for someone like me to hang out we'll solve the people that have been kicked off of something. So that's right. Try going over there and being moderate. Try going over that he's, so there's no room for you yeah, unfortunately, because I don't identify as any party here he had read. You know it. It doesn't work for me
not a problem in Silicon Valley. When you don't identify as anything did you get pressure totally, it used to be ok, it's not ok, anymore, and when was it ok for ten years ago, I would see it ok and then he started seeing a shift, and now you have to pick sides. Otherwise, you automatically the enemy. Really struggle sessions and all that struggle session, I'm exaggerating for, but it definitely has that oppressive feeling to it right and you also have to be politically outspoken. It can't be something that you just stay neutral about right. It's like when TIM Ferriss. I think at some point put out a tweet about how you can't just say anything anymore, and you know people are being suppressed and a whole bunch of people, a lot of them from Silicon Valley. Paladin said: what is it that you can't say? What are you afraid to say you can say whatever you want him go ahead. What are you afraid of like dating
I trying to say well, we have to put in that box. One is someone who is thinking about saying something we should of sat exactly now. We know one great with a cell, as you know, the the left one, the culture wars, another just driving around shooting survivors, wow, that's a leri, us yeah. I wonder I wonder who, as has won the culture war, there's. Certainly a battle. That's been one in terms of like control of social media control. Social media is absolutely left. This is unfortunate for conservatives, but technology is a force that also pushes left. So, if you look all throughout human history like the left, essentially grows and grows and grows right. Why is that? Why is it in extra believe that, as some commentators have said, Leviathan slouches left from my myosin is the government? Why does it slash left- and I think a lot of that has been because of technology technology has made
so that it makes more said, like industrial revolution technology, we all band together where wards of the state right contraception, is a technology that kind of helps lean left where it takes away from the family unit. Abortion is a technology right, it wasn't possible thousands of years ago, so technology actually empowers the individual. The individual means that you have the breakdown of family structure in religion and all that, and I'm not Miss Leah posted that, but it does mean that there's a leftward shift to it now we're getting a small set of technologies that actually can take you more right. Word. Encryption is an example, because encryption makes it easier to have privacy. It makes it easier to have money that is outside of the state guns, 3d, printing of guns, an example of a technology that is more of a rightward shift, but generally technology leads the word left yeah. It's also usually highly educated people that are involved in technology in the first place, and I think when you look
universities in particular, they tend to lean left in this country as well. Well, what happened? Mercedes diversity is very interesting universities. First, when you became the arbiters of data and intellectualism, and what's right and wrong so there time period when it was like, should we be doing that or not? Well, let's look at the university. What do they have to say? What are the smartest people, the professors, the think tanks have to say and the university's got this credibility from the hard sciences? So they got this from. You know, physics and math, and computer science and chemistry, because these deliver real things, Manhattan Project, the microprocessor, the space vehicles and so on the electric car. So they gain this mantle of authority and legitimacy from the hard sciences. Then come the Social Sciences kind of sneaking, then you get economy, economics and Micro mix is a real disciplined, real science, real math behind it logic reason, and then you
macroeconomics, which can be politicized little bit more food, you get, then you get social studies and then you get gender studies and then you get blah blah blah and so happened. Is that? Because we took scientists to be the high priests of our real world, science itself has gotten corrupt and the Social Sciences, and you can tell they're fake sciences because of the weird science tacked on at the end have come in and hijacked the universities and become the new think tanks, and that so is see. What you see going on today in the universities is a war between the Social Sciences in the Physical Sciences, and the crossover point is biology right, where you can do you like the whole gender is a social construct. Movement is attacking biology and evolutionary biology, just like in the social sphere that coming after the comedians right. But you can see the struggle going on the universities and, I would say the physical sciences are essentially losing that war. What can be done.
Or is it just something that has to play out? Is it do we have to realize the consequences of the foolishness? The good news is. The physical sciences have a reality on their side yeah, but it's not even in many. This is not respected yeah, but you you at the end of the day your aircraft still has to fly. You know your microprocessor still has to compute, so there's only so far they can. They can take it, but I do see, for example, in biology. Allana biologists are facing this difficult thing where they have to say things that they know are not true to keep their jobs like what you had bread Weinstein on here right yeah. That's it that's a clear example. You know it there's just that the crossover line of what is accepted on what's not is entering into biology and biology will probably suffer the most synthetic you, for example. Will you know a lot of this will end up in China because it won't be. You won't be with a map, facts and reality and actions together. You won't be able to get grants. He won't be able to get the adulation of your peer.
I don't I don't know enough here Sonam and shaky territory, but it's just sense that that crossover battleground right now is an evolutionary biology. Economics lost well it certainly in terms of gender, and that sort of that seems to be one of the major battlegrounds yeah. It's also going to happen example of blank slate theory. You know we nature, or we never sure it's kind of socially unacceptable to say that you know a lot of it is nature it and, and not mature. Vice versa, depending on which side you're on right those kinds of discussions get corrupted, they do get corrupted. It is really unfortunate because that's a probably important thing to understand, like what may is a person, a sociopath. What makes a purse in a super successful person of a winner? What what makes a person a drug addict? What what are? What are these factors? You can have a
have a conversation about climate science anymore right, not a science not have a size too, can't even bring it up. S got their mind made up already. Well, it's what's on because audible to me is people have their minds made up and they don't even have the data on most of these topics. People are talking past each other anyway, talking about different things like when you get into you know when you, when you get into a gun control for sample right, one side is talking about the right to bear arms in case a tyrannical ruler or king, to go over the country the other time. The other side is talking about school shootings and you know protecting people in their homes right from crime. So they're just talking about two different things and it's just not politically acceptable to even talk about the same thing or when it gets to immigration. The right is talking about you know. The other left is like bundling together illegal immigration and legal immigration into one thing: yes right where in the right,
sometimes you got racist hiding in there, so it doesn't help their cause right now talking about two different things. If they were talking about the same thing, which is how many should we let into the country? And you know what are the criteria for that? That would a very different conversation. Then no immigrants or everybody comes in and then also on the left. You know you have this benefit that everybody who's Kerr be coming in illegally is going to vote for the left because of where they're coming from and their socio economic circumstances to me, the test of any good system. Is you build a system handed over to your enemies to run for the next decade? So, for example, if you want to censorship on twitter or Facebook, you should build that system and then head over to the other side to run so if you're left, winger who's, promoting censorship, let somebody else run same with immigration. If you want immigration system, build the system and then handed over to the other side to running. That's how you know it's a good sis, there's no room for nuans when you're dealing with these political battlegrounds when you're dealing right versus left and once I
it has a clearly established stance that you're supposed to take like Duncan great example that right there's no room for what about mental health. What about the fact that so many of these people are on psych medication? Why that not being discreetly running one of the greatest mental experiments in history when we build a great body up in our eyes, yeah- and you know- maybe if you give thirty million p, call Sri's, maybe like twenty nine dot, nine million or a lot happier, and then you have a fraction that commit suicide or detonate yeah. Basically, trading the mean for the variance you have blow blowup risk yeah, there's for new ones, which is why I stay out of politics. Largely
drag you in those sometime. I always try and this conversation is covered for so you get to get dragged insurer, but I'm sure there's gonna be some people that here's the thing about politics, because there is we, we have a first past the post system. What that means is equivalent to fifty one percent of the vote in this country gets a lot of the power right. It's not like proportional representation with the greens have ten percent libertarians of three percent or whatever it's just like you're all Democrat in power. Now, all republican because of to win you have to pick one of these two sides right. You have you have to choose you can't just you can't just you can't just basically say I'm going to be. You know who wants to about it. You can't vote for one slash three party they're, throwing away your vote right, I'm a friend of trying to fix that he started this thing called a good party were like you kick start your vote, so you combine all your votes, you hold them in reserve and then we you have enough to win. Then you vote that person in power right. You know you don't throw away your boat, but outside of those hacks were never going to Third Party elected so because of that
of your beliefs have to neatly fit into the Democrat bundle, all the republican bundle, and so, when you get into that tribe, if you see outside of that out of that bundle, you get attacked. So it's literally it's making you into an unclear thinker, it's making you into a model thinker if all your beliefs line up into one political party, you're, not a clear thinker, if all your beliefs of the same as your neighbors in your friends, you're, not a clear thinker, you're literally just you believe their socialized they're taken from other people. So if you want to be a clear thinker, you cannot pay attention to politics. It will destroy your ability to think. But what dread most of modern life all our diseases are diseases of abundance, not diseases of scarcity right old times that may have starved. You know,
you've got sugar. That was a wonderful thing. I should have eaten all the sugar to get my hands on. If I got in a piece of news or gossip that was interesting data that would have helped my life and move me forward if I'd gotten some brief amount of entertainment, weather through video games or magazines or whatever that would have been good. Now. I all disease of abundance. We over exposed to everything. So the way to survive in modern society is to be an ascetic. It is to retreat from society. There's too much society everywhere. You, your society in your phone society, in your pocket society in your ears, you're, being social, is right now, but listen to this podcast were socializing. You were programming, you everyone's trying to probe everybody. The only solution, turn it off. The only solution is to turn it off and concentrate on your breathing meadow
patient yeah. Yes, I mean that's, it works. It's! It's been a lifesaver for me. Oh, I do it and I do it whenever I get like spare time. I was at the doctor's office this morning and I knew it was gonna be twenty minutes. So I just sat there with my eyes closed for twenty minutes and I meditated you know when I was growing up. There was a statement. I think it was Pascal. He said all of man's problems arise because you cannot sit by himself in a room for thirty minutes. It's very true. I always needed to be stimulated and when the Iphone came along border was dead. I would never be bored again everything if I'm standing in line. I'm on my iphone- and I thought it was great and when I was uh did I used to try and overclock my brain be like how many thoughts can I think at once. The answer is only one, but I would try to. I think multiple thoughts at once- and I was proud of that- was proud that my brain was always running. This engine was always moving and it's a disease, it's actually the road to misery, and now that I'm older, I realize that you actually want to again rest your mind.
You want to learn how to settle into your mind. Now. I look forward to solitary confinement. You leave me alone for a day. It will be like the happiest day I've had in awhile, and that is a superpower that I think everybody can attain the power of learning to be alone and enjoying it yeah yeah. Well, I it's critical and I- and I do think that this these time, where you just think about things just be alone and think about things- are so rare these days and I think during those rare times is when you really get to understand what you actually believe or don't believe yeah, it's it's funny. When I first started updating it was really hard right, 'cause everybody. I think a lot of people who listen this broadcast ever heard of meditation. That has a good rep, so everybody tries it. This struggle, that kind of give it up it's one of
things that everybody says they do, but nobody actually does right. It's like not even sugar. Everyone talks about how yeah I don't need sugar with that yeah. Then right, then the dessert tray rolls around everyone's going for the cookies yep right yep. So it's become one of the and in fact it's not even become a signalling thing where it's like. Oh, how much did you meditate? I meditated this much or you know there, people now where he had been saying with Tweety Bird, the Chopard. Now when they're deep meditation, I don't know how they make it work, but, like I got a lot of trips today, how we choose to do you get like, though your meditation technique is wrong. Line is right, but a real all it is, is the art of doing nothing. Okay and it's important, because I think when we, when we grow up right, it's all the stuff happening to you in your life and some of it you're processing, some of your absorbing and some of it. You should probably think a little bit more about and work through, but you don't you don't have time so it gets buried in you. It's all. These preference isn't judgments and unresolved situations and issues, and it's like your email inbox,
just piling up email after email after email, that's not answered going back, ten, twenty three thousand and forty years and then when you say how to meditate those emails start coming back at you hey what about this issue? What about that issue? Have you solved this? Do you think about that? You regret there. You issues there and that gets scary. People don't want to do that like it's not working. I can't clear my mind. I better get up and not do this, but really what's happening. Is it's self therapy? It's just that, instead of paying a therapist to sit there and listen to you, you're listening to your cell and you just have to sit there as those emails go through one by one. You work through each of them until you get to the magical inbox zero and there comes a day when you sit down, you realize the only things you're thinking about the things that happened yesterday, because you processed everything else not ness been resolved it, but at least listen to yourself and that's when meditation starts, and I think it's a it's a very powerful thing that everybody should experience and that's when you arrive upon the art of doing nothing, it's even a problem that most people are getting their meditation from an app. I will not use
it's Nikki I mean SAM Harris is a very good meditation app. I should say that, but you should be able to just do and in many many people can. It is literally the art of doing nothing yeah. All the news do for meditation is to sit down close your eyes, comfortable position. Whatever happens happens, if you think you think, if you don't think you don't think, don't put effort into it, don't put effort against it all you need. Do you concentrate on your breath or do you have a specific technique? Nothing now this it. You just said think about my breath. That's all I do. We try to only concentrate on breathing. I used to do that, but it's some level all the concentration, every meditation technique is leading into the same thing, which is just witnessing, and concentration
is a technique to still your mind enough that you can then drop the object of concentration, so you could also just try going straight to the end game. The problem with what I'm talking about, which is not focusing on your breath, is you will have to listen to your mind for a long time. It's not going to work unless you do at least an hour a day, and preferably at least sixty days before you kind of work through a lot of issues, so it will be held for awhile, but come out the other side. It's great you get rid of the chatter or when the chatter comes it's in the background, it's dead. It's smaller. You heard it before you see the patterns, it's more recent, it's something you need to resolve any way and you will get moments of actual silence. What is your? What's your all submit state when you meditate like? Is there a state where you've achieved? Rarely if ever, where you just you, you were you're in bless or you are in harmony or you're in and light meant like what is here is kind of indescribable,
because when you're really meditating you're not there, when there's no thoughts, there's no experience or there's nothing, there's just nothing. So it's it's hard to describe, but I would say that it's like you could definitely every psychedelic state that people encounter using so called plant medicines can be arrived. It just through pure meditate, and I've definitely hit some of those states. You've had some transcendent psychedelic states where you're meeting the whole deal had trippy visuals I've had the kind of the lights and colors of the so called downloads. I've had the realizations. I've had the bliss I've had the light at the colors, but not every time. No, it's really, and in fact I would say that that's also. I can experience that you can start craving, which will then actually take you out of meditation where you really and I'm not enlightened or anything close to it. So not even the ballpark, but my own experience- and this is just personal experience- is
the place where I end up the most. That is really the one that I I I want to be at is peace. It's just peace, peace, happy, yeah, peace, it took to me, peace is happiness at rest and happiness is kind of peace in motion. You can convert piece to happiness anytime, you want, but peace is what you want. Most of the time. That's interesting! You can convert piece to happiness anytime. You want, if you're a peaceful person. Anything you do will be a happy activity and by the way being on social media. Engaging politics will not bring you peace. There is nothing less peaceful right and today's damage the way. We think you get pieces by resolving all your external problems, but there's unlimited external problems, so the only way to actually get peace on the inside. By giving up this idea of problems who thinks you can go
piece by resolving external problems other than politicians, everybody that everybody is struggling to know right. Why you trying to make money to solve all your money problems? Why you trying to win a politics because then you'll be at peace, because your people will have one. It's a daunting task to get your shit together, it's easier to change yourself and to change the world. That's true best way to change the world is to change yourself exactly it's! It's all these people who are shouting on social media. The best way is just to actually live the life that you want. Other people to live like I went out in New Zealand and there's this guy that I met with in
everyone's on social media, shouting about environmentalism and conserve and sustained, and I go to this guy's house and he was doing a very quietly very gently. He was doing a two week, long zero waste experiment where he was throwing out nothing so every package that he opened he would keep and he would like clean it up. So you keep. Is Amazon boxes boxes, keep a look at containing human tea bag. If you opened a tea bag, he has to figure out how to compost the tea inside, how to make the t itself useful how to make the tea bag like a little storage items. So there was no trash, he was little. He living with zero trash waste and he was doing it and it was really inspirational. Meeting people like him made me fall more environmentally conscious than any amount of people yelling at me on social media. Every will. How long did you do that, for I think it was two weeks it was hard. What the fuck are you going to do with
the bags? He had quite the collection, exactly filling them with little things. He sounds like a crazy. This hoarder, like a hoarder person with stacks of tea bags in his house, very impressive guy yeah. That's a strange way to go bad things. I appreciate, and I mean it is entirely possible to somehow or another engineer, all of our cups and all of our things and all are about to be biodegradable. If the you know, the the struggle with the modern, the environmental movement is that they identify the correct problem, which is finite. Earth spaceship at the Sloan got, don't ruin it, but they don't have the solution. So what they say is no growth, no growth, no growth on the problem is you got three billion indian and Chinese who aren't going to stay in poverty they going to grow, whether you like it or not, so you yell at them. You can scream at them. You can yell at us and scream at us, but that's not gonna happen. So the
the way out, unfortunately, is again through technology, which is you have to build green technology, and I give musk a lot of credit. You know for being one of the few people who's out there trying to do that. So you build things that are biodegradable and good for you and healthier, and everybody wants to be healthier. Chinese want to be healthier. Indians want to be healthier, they want to be cleaner. If you say I can clean up your rivers, I can clean up your forests. I can have your children not get sick with cholera and diphtheria and typhoid. I can cure diseases. I can help make your immune system stronger. I can give you clean drinking water like that, is what causes people to become invite mentalists, not shouting and screaming at them that they shouldn't grow and they should stop pumping things into the sky, and you know they have no concept of that they're trying to get out of poverty. So I think the modern environmental movement identifies the correct problem, but then doesn't come up with the right set of solutions that are appealing to people. People are not going to give up economic growth they're going to have to get rich first.
That's now that's a very good point, but how do you do? How do how do you do both you lower the price of create clean technologies massively, so you basically make clean tech analogy. Is cost competitive to subsidies, cities, innovation? Ideally, you can subsidize in the short to medium term. Until the innovation curve is crossed, I mean like Tesla, doesn't have any patents right or they freely give away their patents. That's the example of how you can do it, so you know someone if you want to get rid of plastic such straws yeah, you can do it here. There you can get San Francisco to ban plastic straws, but China is not going to blend ban plastic straws, not until you build a paper straw that
you know same cost, good durability and then you in for and then you and educate the Chinese like hey. This is petroleum. You know this plastic that you're doing is patrolling the bad for you. Here's the chemical composition, here's the things are going in your blood stream and they want healthy, happy kids also, so they can have their kids use paper straws. Maybe straws are the best example, but you can you know this is true: the fossil fuels, for example. That's that's probably best one or replacing a lot of plastics with glass and paper, and so on. Yeah there's a new technology that was just Rhonda Internet under twitter today about they're able to convert plastic waste into fuel and there's companies that are actively trying to do that now. So then, in that way, plastic waste will become valuable right and it will become a commodity. It'll become something that people are resource now, there's certain problems this doesn't solve. This doesn't solve carbon. This doesn't solve deforestation, so there you kind of have to step in with other means. So, for example, they look at the Amazon right. Everyone
complaining about the Amazon being deforested. Well, you're, not the poor, brazilian farmer, so you're sitting here in your comfortable chair, like social media hammering away at you, know the evil Brazilians forced in the Amazon, but the Amazon has incredible resource is. If we really care about it, we should turn it into an incredible tourist park and put your money where your mouth is start doing. Eco tourism in the Amazon start paying for it and then maybe take the future rights for all the pharmaceuticals that are going to come out of all the incredible plants there and start selling those off so that people, so that maybe give the farm little companies an incentive to preserve the the Amazon say: hey. If you buy this patch of the Amazon, you conservative and you can serve it well. The plant medicines that come out of there that you could then license you get the patent for twenty years or thirty years or whatever. So I think there are solutions where we as the first worlders, who have money, can put our money where, where our mouth
and go and rescue these kinds of properties, that's a very interesting solution, but I could see immediately pushback from people that don't think the pharmaceutical company should have the rights to this natural plant. Yours or that or the government does it, and then the government gets the problems and the government will auction off the patents later or they're worse or their life, some or whatever. It is right. Well, I've had to the often like just this often the problem is. There is no really good solution. There's a bunch of solutions that also have drawbacks. That's life yeah right, that's a tradeoff! So it's being humans, very messy, yeah, the constrained environment. So obviously I skew more towards a private property, capitalist type solutions, because even though they're not perfect, they have been proven to actually work. When something is your property, you take care of it. Yeah you're not going to you're not going to crap all over your own house, but it it should probably be temporary property, not permanent property. You see countries around the world not doing this. No foreign ownership of land thing, for example, or
Cisco, has no private ownership of beaches right. So you can draw the line at certain points. Yeah, do you enjoy doing this kind of thing? We break things down and give your perspective on things and try to illuminate certain complex objects. I'm not trying to illuminate so much. As you know talking to you, I learn as much as I say, and I learned from myself, 'cause I'm being forced to articulate it. I can sit around and think my thoughts all day long, but it's uh. It's going to be nonsense. It's not going to cut their gaps in thinking where you make leaps, because you're kind to yourself that you don't realize you're making, but when you're forced to write it down, and this is why I tweet or when you have to talk to somebody you have to complete those gaps and make it a properly logical chain, and the mistake that I made when I was young was you know I always wanted to seem like the smartest kid in the room you know like just like. You probably want to seem like the funniest kid in the room where the tough
kid in the room right we're all losers, starting out. We want to be winter, so we picked the thing we're good at and we double down on it. I always want to smartest kid in the room. So what did I do? I read a lot of books. I memorized a lot of things and then whatever I had memorized is pre Google. I made it up, so it's Anica Pre, Google, after Google backchecking started, and I had to get better right. So Google improve me that way, lot of people exactly so. Now, what I realize is that the biggest mistake with memorization right, because when you're, actually she tried to live your life in Congress, so reality you, you want to have deep understanding what you do and why you do it, and so it's much more important to know the basics really well, then, is to know the advanced. Knowing calculus wouldn't help you today it doesn't help you in business doesn't help you in most things, but arithmetic really will help you really whether it's at the corner
grocery store, counting change to figuring out the value of your podcast business, to figuring out how to do the probability math on you know. Some action that you want to take so understanding basic mathematics hold is way more important than memorizing calculus concepts, and the problem is. This is true. I think, all reasoning, it's much better to know the basics from the ground up solid foundation of understanding, a steel frame of understanding, and it is just have a scaffolding we just memorizing advanced concepts. This is why there are a lot of people. I'm sure that you listen to who are really smart. They use a lot of jargon and you can't quite follow the reasoning. You don't know how that putting things together into this deep down suspicion. They don't even really understand, and so, if you look at the the the most powerful thinkers, especially the ones where money our life is on the line, they have understand the basics really really well. Richard Feynman, the famous physicist, was able to he had this piece in one of his lectures where he takes you
from counting numbers on your hand, all the way to calculus in four pages of text orally but written down to four pages of text, and it's complete, unbroken logical chain that takes you through geometry, trigonometry, Precalculus, analytic, geometry, graphs, everything all the way to calculus. He understood numbers at a core level. He didn't have to memorize anything when you're memorizing. It's an indication that you don't understand, you should be able to re, derive anything on the spot and if you can't, you don't know it so apply that to things other than math. I actually have plotted to everything everything you don't even make a ten to memorize things just make an attempt to understand them. You can't help but memorize things, but if you can't- and this is where Twitter is great for me as I try to understand something- and then I try to write it down in such a way that I could remember it just the basic hook that will point towards the deeper understanding and I'm forced to explain it to people and that's how I know I understand some.
So this is what I meant originally talked about. Reading a good book, I'll read one page in the night and then I spend the rest of my thinking about it. I'm chasing down references on Wikipedia or Weird block post trying to understand it um you know so, for example, there was ah, ah I was dealing with this is a few months back. I was doing with a question of stupid topic, but the meat, the life right. Let's see, how could that be stupid, though? Well, it says it's right. It's right, you're, not supposed to think about it. It's something you ask your parents and your yeah, they tell you don't worry about it. Are they still get a job yeah, exactly good job, you fricking hippie are here's God, God is the meaning of life right, and I was just trying to resolve for myself like what could the answer be right, not what is the answer, but what could the answer be, and so, at a core level, I was forced to kind of hunting down all these weird little things and really understand for myself, but it's gotta be personal, but as destablished from myself what it could and could not be, and that gave me some level of peace. So now I don't have to keep asking
question: what is the meaning of life? I think the question is more interesting than the answer. Everyone should explore this on their own, but let me just explore a few parts with you right. So first is. If I gave you an answer, if I said the meaning of life is to please God well, which God, okay, judeo, Christian God. Well, ok, why that one? Why this thing? The problem is a. Why question you can keep asking? Why forever and your answer, I give you you'll just ask: why again, why again little kid, that's right and you end up in a place called a grip- is trill Emma okay. This is a philosophical exercise, but I I I kind of thought it through the Google around it. There's a thing all Agrippa's trilemma and a group astronomers says that any questioning like of s. Why will always end in one of three places? Okay, first is infinite regress right? Why? Because of this? Why
that what you just keep playing for? The second is circular reasoning: well, aye 'cause it be or why be because of a trapped in that or the third is an axiom and the most popular Axiom is God, but it could be anything 'cause of math, the Sciences, science, big, the big of simulation right simulation are all axioms. All are all just stopping points. Saying simulation with a simulation or saying is the big bang is just another way of saying God gods of dirt word, so we don't use it as much anymore, but same thing. So you up in one of these three dead ends, essentially right. So there is no answer. The real answer is because right, what is the meaning of life? Yeah you get to make up your own answers the beauty. If there was a single answer, we would not be free, we would be trapped because then we would all have to live. Did that answer, then we be bored like robots, each one competing with each other to fulfill that single meaning more than the other back to signal
like I'm better that than you are, but luckily there is no answer, so you just do whatever you want. The meaning of life, it's funny that well that's the basis of all existential angst that you don't you don't know why you're here and you have this feeling that it could be meaning less it is I mean if you start pondering the the pondering, the reverse, the galaxies, the solar system, the planet, the organism, the cells inside the organism, the bacteria, the parasites, the symbiotic relationship, we have to our environment and you start going Jesus Christ. Just a little piece of this thing is like well, the answer. Still all the great questions or paradoxes yeah. So, for example, you're asking like do I matter. That's like really the quest you asked right. Well, how do I matter in this infinite universe? Well,
on the one hand, you're separate. No two points are the same. Every point is every two points are infinitely different. You are completely separated. No one will have your thoughts, your emotions, your feelings, your experience, so your life is a single player game, you're trapped inside your head and you just aware of a bunch of things going on and that's it on other hand. I cannot say the word Joe Rogan, without invoking the entire universe, Joe Rogue comes along says. What's that Joe Rogan was Joe, Rogan is a human. What's a human by pedal, eight! What's an ape on the earth? What's the earth planet? What's the planet soul system? Where was the carbon made inside stars right? I have to create the entire universe. Just say the words do Rogan, so in that sense, you're connected to everything it's inseparable. So the answer to that mission of do- I matter is: I am nothing, and I am everything and you'll find this with all the great questions. The answers are all paradox, which is why it's some level it's sort of pointless to pursue them to find a
right answer like I'm giving, but the act of pursuing them is actually really useful, because then it gives you certain intrinsic understanding in your life. That brings a level of peace. I feel like there's many people. This stress of this question is also accentuated by unhappy lives punctuated by unhappy choices by being trapped, there's a big difference between not knowing what the meaning of life is, and God I got to get the fuck out of this job I have to. I can't live my life this way, what's the meaning of life, if this is my life, which is I I always start with, let's get you rich. First, that's very practical about it because you know Buddha was a prince okay, he started out really rich and then he got to go off in the woods and in the old days what happened was. If you wanted to be peaceful inside, you would become a monk. You would renounce everything would become an ascetic. You would give everything up. You renounce women, men, you'd, renounce
children, you renounce money, you renounce politics, science, technology, everything and you would go out in the woods by yourself it to give everything up to be free inside well, today, live this wonderful invention called money or you can just store stuff up into bank account, and you can basically save you. Can work really hard? You can do great things for society, and society will give you money for giving it things that it wants and it doesn't know how to get, and you can save that up and you can live well below with your means, and you can find a certain freedom in that, and that will give you that I'm in the energy to pursue your own internal peace and happiness, so I believe, solution to making everybody happy is to give them what they want. Let's get them all rich, let's get them all fit and healthy, and then let's get them all happy
is. Are those things even possible can ever everyone can be rich? Everyone can be everyone, here's my thought exercise for now. It seems like we're in an infomercial. Everyone can be right. So again, my home. This is my rolls Royce. Yeah, it's not! So that's a that's a good point. Every thing that I've ever created on this topic of how to make money. I will never charge a dollar for because that would ruin it that show that I'm just another huckster who's trying to get rich off of you. There are no get rich, quick, that's just somebody else trying to get rich off of you right. So it's so it's more of a philosophical contribution. Where for it to have meeting and to be legit, I can't charge you anything for it, but, yes, everybody can be rich and let me give you a thought: exercise. Okay, asian, if tomorrow we could wave a wand and buddy was trained as a sign or an engineer, everybody even you're, very good. You had enough understanding computer.
You could write some code, you could build some hardware and don't tell me people can't do it because they can that's just attorney of expectations. That's just you looking down on somebody else. They can do it. They just have to be educated. Now, if they're educated, all this hardware, software engineer, scientist, biologist technicians, hard science- is not the Social Sciences, we would all be done within five years. Robots would be doing everything from cleaning toilets to cooking food, to flying airplanes, driving ubers. And what will we be doing? We would be doing all creative jobs to entertain each other and research in science and technology. We would have wonderful lives, so it is really the question of education. Nothing else is. This is a scale issue, though I mean you're talking about it as if this would work with three hundred million people. It will work with ten billion people. It will work this space faring race with one hundred trillion people. Just we the resources we have
ability, the universe is infinite resource. Is you build it? You know, have you heard of a Dyson sphere? You know you pull the Dyson Sphere on a star and you gather all its energy like that. There's so much energy out there. One asteroids got all the minerals that we need. One sign one solar system has got all the power we will need for a long long time. You know we can extract it of nuclear Asian. You know we're we're not that far from those kinds of technologies working, it's just a question of guts and you know and interest like we should be building nuclear vision test plants on the moon. The moon should be littered with F, slow down side right yeah. If you could well, it is send a bunch of people up there to work on the problem. Robots problem with fission nuclear fission is that nature creates energy through nuclear energy right. The sun creates energy, nuclear energy now for transmission reviews photons, because photons don't interact, and so photons are great for information transmission, but they're, actually not great for energy transmission for any
creation. You want nuclear to work and the problem is because nuclear energy- you know we built it with a bomb. We have dirty nukes all those kinds of problems with Fukushima: three mile island Chernobyl. We don't innovate anymore, nukes. Imagine when the first steam engine blew up, we said no more steam engines for awhile or carefully regulated billion dollars of regulation. You can't innovate that way when the first airplane crashed. We said no innovation in airplanes right, so we need a way to iterate on nuclear fission and eventually fusion and get them working safely, cleanly passive failure, etc. If we're gonna find our way out of the energy trapped and the best place to do that is place like on the moon or Mars. Do you think it's actually a possibility that they could get new nuclear power to the point where it's not a detriment detriment, because what everyone's worried about is a meltdown right and we do
have these old plants that air running that air running on this? This is fifty year old technology. It's crazy because there's no ability to shut them off very old technology. They do not have Jen for nuclear reactors that are passive, fail, safe, so in other words, when they fail the failing to us, when you pull the plug on them, they fell into a state where there's no leakage. There's no problem there default is a positive outcome, as opposed to the current ones, the old ones where, if you unplug them- and these even these gen four- are just GEN four they're, not gen. Five hundred and eighty GEN, one hundred where we are microprocessors right and that should be something people are working towards. I hope so I mean I'm an ideal world. We would that the problem is, if you have nuclear energy on the moon, how do you get it home right? So what you actually got? It do, is you got a rabbit on the moon using it, there maybe be the launch more satellites, more rockets, further out into the solar system and that's the initial use case, but then, eventually the technology gets so good. You can bring it home
yeah. I want to go back to this idea of getting people rich that somehow or another that's going to make people happy how how do you stop the the natural progression that people have of you know. So you know I have got a nice chevrolet, but I really want to Bmw. I've got a nice Bmw, but now I want a Mercedes. I have mercy, I want to Ferrari. How do you stop material possession trap? Is you can't at some level, but I think most smart people overtime realize that possessions don't make them happy? It's just you have to go through the you have to buy your stupid car to realize that it doesn't attract attractive. Girls actually just attracts other dudes who are like. I like that car man right like like you, have some sense of cars out there. Some fancy cards tell me how you know how much that attracts women versus men. Well, I'm married those are for me. I just enjoy machines yeah.
Let me their toys, that's a particular thing where you enjoy machines, but I think very, as you get older you, this realize that there's no happiness in material possessions now lack of material possessions can make you very unhappy so being poor can make you unhappy, but being rich is not going to make you happy and what happens in fortunes a lot of people struggle through their whole life to make money they make some they're exhausted and then like well now, why? Why am I not happy? I guess I'm just not a happy person and smart people are unhappy. That's like a great little weight. People feel better about it. This way, if you're, smart, you're, not happy right, I the other way. If you're smart, you should be able to figure out how to be happy, otherwise, not that smart yeah. That is an offensive statement that, if you're smart, you're not happy. I've heard that before- and I did I just do not understand the logic of that other than stitch self. Just fine, I understand where it comes from. Yeah comes from if you're smart, it's usually because you thought things through and you're very busy mind
and so busy mind can often rob you of peace of mind right as well. The peace that we seek is not peace of mind. It's piece from mind right. So, if you look at all the crazy activities, you do to be happy right, whether it's like trying to get laid and having orgasm or you know extreme sports or looking at something beautiful or taking a psychedelic you're trying to get out of your own mind, you're, trying to get your monkey mind to stop chattering at you for a moment, you're trying to get peace from the mind, and there are other better ways to do that. Most of the ways we try to get peace from mind are in direct. Where, if you understand things, if you see things properly, you will naturally slowly develop piece from mind mmm. So if I went on a tension there, no it's a good tangent. It's a good tangent because I think oftentimes, the pursuit is what's through
going to people and the possibility that one day they'll be able to rest and that they'll reach this goal. That's the fundamental delusion that there is some thing out there that will make me happy. Yeah, well, forever, yeah good old in years that there is called death well take care of everything that the great leveler, but when people look at particular social media, with bring back to that, when you see someone who you know you see them posed in front of their mansion, with their beautiful car and they're leaning against it, with their design close on their expensive watch. I want that. That's what I want. What you really want is freedom. You want freedom from your money problems right and I think that's ok, so people once someone can solve their money problems, thereby lowering their lifestyle or by making enough money and essentially what you want to get everybody to the retirement, but now
retirement in the sixty five years old sitting in a nursing home collecting a check, retirement, different definition, retirement is when you stop sacrificing day for some imaginary tomorrow me: yes, when today is complete in and of itself you're retired, and so how do you get there? Well, one is you can have much money saved up that just a passive income off of that without your having to lift a finger covered, your burn rate, keep your burn rate low right a second. You just drive your burn rate down to zero. You become a monk one. Slash three is doing something you love you enjoy it. So much is not about the money. So there are multiple ways to that path, but the most common is people just say: I need to make more money. The kind of wealth creation that I talk about is about creating timeless principles and adopting yourself that making money won't be an issue, and you can do it by doing what you love right like we get into this model of, I must work for other
people work my way up the ladder. I must like do what that person is doing to make money, but really today's society, you get rewarded for creative work for creating something brand that society I didn't even know yet that it wanted that doesn't know how to get other than through you. So the most powerful money makers are actually individual brands, people like yourself or e, lawn or Kanye or Oprah or Trump right. These are individual braids, eponymous, name brands. Who themselves are leverage like your leveraged. You have broadcast media going out to everybody, that's leverage, the podcast work for you and you sleep. They have knowledge that nobody else has, which is your knowledge, is the knowledge of being Joe Rogan. I mean who this is a UFC fighter and a commentator and podcaster at a comedian, and you know in in all these things in those all these people can't replace you. So we have to pay you what you're worth and was I never fought me? Oh, so you didn't sorry or you know you,
whatever you're involved in that whole scene. You just have a unique set of skill sets so because this unique what I call specific knowledge because of the accountable see that you have with your name because leverage that you have three, your media, your money, making machine you're. I'm sure at this point could make you start over tomorrow. Wipe out your bank out you'd be rich again, no time because you have have all the skill sets. So once people have those skill sets and the beauty is the way you've done it is you don't have any competition, there's no substitution. If Joe Rogan would disappear off the air tomorrow, it's not like random podcaster number. Twelve would step in and fill that thing. No, it's it's just gone. So the way to get out of that competition trap is actually to be authentic. The winner higher is actually to find the thing that you know how to do. Did anybody and you know how to do that better, because you love to do it? No one can compete with you. If you love to do it, be authentic and then figure out how to map that to what society actually want
apply. Some leverage put your name on it, so you take the risks, but you gain the rewards, have ownership and equity in what you do and then just crank it out. I think people have to be very care awful to not get trapped along the way with things that you can afford with your current lifestyle, I like the way you're living in the way you're earning but they're, also imprisoning you in the fact that you are now going to have to work this forty hour a week job in order to get this thing can't afford, but now you're saddled down to this job, you not saving your not putting things in a in a good place and you're working for these things. Working for thing as rewards is a real trap that a lot of people fall into it's the biggest one intel level says that under two great addictions, heroin and a monthly salary,
that's why you can't get rich redneck out your time, because even when you start charging more and more for your time, it's a slow upgrade loop, and then you upgrade your house. At the same time, you bring the car. At the same time, you move in the neighborhood. You really also have to get just ignoring your peers or upgrading or changing the definition of your peers. A lot of people here who are poor here, but they would be rich if they will in Thailand in Bali and if they have the luxury of a remotely doable job, they may want to be living there and saving up money. The ignoring the peers is an issue because the keeping up with the Joneses is a real phenomenon. Yeah envy the world go round. This is this is the other thing that people have to avoid even allowing their mind to sink when the hearing? What you're saying and it's all, this logical, fantastic advice there, the six dirty words, that's easy for you to say that is a terrible trap in grew up as a
first generation immigrant in Jamaica, queens with zero money, single mom, two kids working day and night go to school, I wash dishes. I was key elder Dragon catering jobs. I was mowing lawns. I was working since the age of eleven on and off here and there then have two cents to rub together. You know I had to borrow forty dollars to go to college like a little short four hundred dollars. Four hundred I had to find four hundred dollars. Have it um, you know, got rejected from a job at Dunkin donuts. So like? Ok, that's not to say that easy! It's not easy! It's actually really freaking hard. It is the hardest thing you will do, but it also the rewarding thing. You know. Look at the kids were run rich, no meaning to their lives. You're durable place, yeah you're, real real resume is just a catalog of all your suffering. If I were to ask you to describe your real life to yourself, when you look back on your deathbed you're going to go
back and say what are the interesting things, I've done all going to be around the sacrifices that you made the hard things that you did anything you're given doesn't matter. You have your four labs. You you have your brain, you have your head, you have your skin gets that's all for granted, so you have to do hard things anyway, to create your own meaning in life. Making money is a fine one, yeah struggle. It is hard, I'm not going to say it's easy, it's a really hard, but the tools all available. It's all there, there's also these these traps that people saw of establishing their own mind of giving themselves excuses or giving themselves in unsurmountable obstacles insurmountable path, metric the mentality, somebody elses fault, this, my skin color's fault. It's the systems, fault yeah. Those people are sinking, I feel bad for them. I want to shake them out of it and say: actually you can get out of it. You just have to stop thinking. It's everybody else, all to the perspective, yeah, it's so difficult for people.
Do it's. One of the most difficult things for people to do is to change the way they have Pro's approach reality itself. At the end of the day, I do think, even despite what I said earlier, life is really a single player game. It's all going on in your head. You know, whatever you think you believe, will very much shape your reality, both from what risks you take in what actions you perform, but also just everyday experience of reality. If you're walking down the street and you're. Judging everyone you're like I don't like that person 'cause their skin color. I don't like that. She's she's not attractive that guys that this Bush is a loser. Oh who put this in my way, you know how do you judge the more going to separate yourself and you will feel good for an instant, because you feel good about yourself, I'm better than that, but then you're gonna feel lonely, and then you just going to see negativity everywhere. The world just reflects your own feelings back at you, reality is neutral. Reality has no judgments to a tree, there's no concept of right or wrong or good or bad right. You're born
you have a whole set of sensory experiences and stimulations and lights and colors and sounds, and then you die and how you choose to interpret. That is up to you. You do have that choice, so this is, I meant their happiness is a choice. If you believe it's the choice, then you can start working on it and I can't tell you how to find it, because your own addition is that are making you unhappy. So you have to unconditioned yourself. It's just like, I can't fix your eating habits, for you can use some guidelines which you gotta go through the hard habit forming of how to eat right, but you have to believe it's possible and it is absolutely possible. I was miserable, I'm happy as a clam and it's not just the money. I got there before the money you got happy before. Mostly, how did you get happy before the money I started getting older? You know this realized, like life, is short going to die again. Try right right right in many ways. Well, Confucius had a great saying that you know every man has two lives and the second star it's when he realizes he is just one wow and I read the
it was one of those book dropping lines. You know it's like MIKE drop confusions that a lot of my crops fuchsias, was a bad before he was that's a crazy one. That was a great one or another. One is next time you get sick, you know, because there sick every now and then it's like a happy person wants ten thousand things. A sick person just wants one thing right: it's your it's! Your unlimited desires are clouding your peace. Your happiness have desires. Your biological creature stands up and says I can do something. I I move I resist. I live, but just be very careful. Every desires it is the oldest most trite, with desire is suffering that money means right. Every desire you have is an access where you will suffer so just don't focus on more than one desire to time. The universe is rigged in such a way that if you just want one thing and you focus on that, you'll get it, but everything else you gotta, let go. Did you
a gradual shift to happiness or was it a radical change? Its ongoing it's gradual every day, so you're happier today than you were a month ago, yeah allegedly yeah, yeah. I'm I'm very happy these days deliriously. So if I she hard for me to hang out in the world really so you you've made a significant shift over the period of like how many years live at eight years, eight years now mile, and is this something that you've pursued through certain books or is it just like you've, you've made understanding or gained understanding in your own mind and then pursuing it based on understanding yeah, it's very, very personal. It's basically, you have to decide it's a priority and the I tried every hack I possibly could I used to you know I tried all the I tried meditation
hide witnessing. You know even tried necessary it just to see what it feel like how did feel it was. It turned me from a pessimist, an optimist, but I didn't like the physical side effects. Nor did I want to be a drug for sustained basis, so I dropped it and I thought I did turn you into an optimist. Yes, at the time I used to be a pessimist yeah, I started doing things like. I would start looking at the bird you know in every moment and everything that happens. You can look on the bright side of something right, and so I used to do that forcibly and then I trained it until it became second nature. So, for example, like a friend of my wife's was over and she's and when we were dating and she took all these photos depict hundreds of photos and then she sent them all to us. In my mid reactions like, why are you dumping hundreds of photos on my phone? I don't need hundreds of photos at some judgment, doesn't immediate reaction, and then I could say actually how nice of her she sent me hundreds of photos. I could pick the one that I like right. There are two ways of seeing almost everything. There are few things that are like high suffering. Can't do that other than just saying. Well, this is a teacher right,
but I slowly work through every negative judgment that I had until I saw the positive and not second nature to me. I also realize that, like what you want, is you how to clear mines? You want to let go of thoughts. Happy thoughts disappear out ahead, automatically very easy to. Let go of them negative thoughts, linger so interpret the positive in everything very quickly. You let it go right, you let it go much faster, simple, hacks get more, so light right, learn to smile, more learned, a hug more. These things actually release serotonin reverse. They aren't just out signals of being happy there actually feedback loops to being happy more time in nature. You know these are obvious. Why touch your mind? Watch your mouth in all day, long watch what it does not judge it, and I try to control it, but you can meditate twenty four slash. Seven meditation is not a sit down close your eyes. Activity. Meditation is just basically watching your own thoughts like you would watch anything else in the outside world and say why am I having that thought? Does that serve me anymore? Is that conditioning for
I was ten years old like, for example, I'm getting ready for this podcast you got ready. I didn't alright good, I did, but I did, but I did, but you couldn't help it and what happened was the few days leading to this. My mind was just running and normally my mind is pretty common. It was just running and running and running, and every thought I would have have. I would imagine me saying it to you. My brain couldn't help but rehearse what what is doing is just rehearsing all the time to talk to you and then I was even rehearsing rehearsed telling about the rehearsal right. So it's all plain old is meta games and I was like shut up, stop it. What is going on and it took me awhile to figure out. Oh yeah, you know what it is when I was a kid in queens and I had no money and I had nothing and I need to save myself the way I got out. It was by sounding smart, not being smart, sounding smart. That was the skill I perfected. So I am
hardwired, always rehearse thing, so I will sound smart, it's a disease that keeps me from being happy, but when you see that when you realize that when you stand something, then it naturally calms you down. So after that I stop rehearsing as much, but still it rain habit. That is a really interesting point that you want to sound smart, that many people do that, especially young people. You see someone who is smart or someone who appears smart. They say smart things. I want to sound smart. I want people to think about me the same way. I think about that person that that is my disease. That is my feeling is what letters my mind I I I the thing I have to ask myself now is. If I can, would I still be interested in learning this thing? If I couldn't ever tell anybody about it, that's how I know it's real, that's how I know it's something I actually want that
common thing, though I know I know I suffered from that when I was young, the desire to sound smart, that's it's very! It's very common to all of us start out either it all every everything you're a winner. Now in your life, you were to lose you it's because you will lose at some point right. If, if you had gotten all the girls, if you had all the money, if you had everything you want your good looking and in junior high or high school, you would have done anything with your life and you would have Peter it's like the Bruce Springsteen Glory days. Song right you to marry your high school sweetheart would be living in your hometown, maybe a manager at the local Mcdonald's. Whatever that first dream job you had, thank God we didn't all get what we want when we were young right or we would be trapped in that. So you have to be able to break out of where you came from. I don't know. What's that is interesting to about people who peaked too early, or maybe those people who
me too early can do the inline Mustang and just abandoned it and start something new and then learn the joys of sucking at something yeah and actually in our profession, especially when you're high visibility. The problem with Peking is that you then get grounded in death of one thousand cuts. People have expectations of Joe. Can you come to my event? Hey Joe, can you look at my business plan? Hey Joe, can give me advice on this. Can you talk to my friend? Can you come in this podcast you're, just being assaulted all the time with inbound opportunities, so you have no time to start over with anything. So you have to ruthlessly ruthlessly disappoint everybody eliminating clear your schedule drop all the meetings not even respond to the emails. The only way you're going to start over with anything yeah- and I we talked about this- that I'd love your approach to meetings. If they're not mean life or death, I'm the same way. I avoided a good one recently, and this was someone that was just tr
tracking me down is a high profile person at a big organization and I'm like. Can we just talk on the phone and then we talked on the phone and there was nothing to say it was just they wanted to get me in the office and yeah and me hardly phone calls phone call should be emails and yeah I'll just be tax, many of them right with meetings. I I mean I I do spice meetings I used to own the domain. I don't do coffee dot com. I eventually so like I used to respond from the wallet. I don't do coffee. Oh that's hilarious. It was a little bit of a jerk move, but really what it comes from is when I was young one of my principles was. I knew I had to make money. It was my overwhelming desire, and one of the things I did with I said I'm never going to be worth more than what I think I'm worth. No, no going to pay me more than what I think I'm worth. So what am I wanted? So I I picked an hourly rate for myself that I it's worth and I said I'm never going to squander my time for less than this. So original is fire box an hour. Then I upgrade to five thousand bucks an hour and it's ludicrous, but picking
operational hourly rate aspirational has to be a little ludicrous and then what I would do is if I have to return some, I'm standing in line to return something else, but my hourly rate I'll, throw it away. If I have to. If I give it away. If I to do some task and I can hire somebody to do it for less than my hourly rate, I would hire them, and so I just became extremely jealous of my time, which doesn't mean you can't have fun rest leisure spending time with your friends and family. That's all great, don't count that, but if you're doing anything you don't want to do, which is the definition of work, it's a set of things that you have to do that. You don't want to Dio if you're working it better be for your hourly rate. Otherwise don't do the work, and so once it came out of that, then it just with the cost of meetings. A cost of me things is so high, especially given all the people who are in their right. One person is talking. Seven people listening, you're, literally just dying it out at a time, so you have to drop non urgent meetings or figure how to be more efficient with them if you're going to
thing great. The extreme example is business travel getting on a plane to fly halfway around the world, one meeting which never amounts to anything and then wasting your whole little life there and then flying back so about five years ago. I resolve, I am never going to travel for business and I haven't for business since I only travel if the travel experience will he's so entertaining enjoy us, because I have friends or the place I want to see or whatever that it will be complete in and of itself, because I know that whatever the business meeting that came from it is never worth it, and actually that principle applies larger than just travel. It applies to life in general. This one of the secrets to happiness is to really embrace what you're doing in the moment, that's trite, but where that, where that comes from is saying, I only want actions that are complete in and of themselves right. If I'm looking for some ulterior motive down the line
materialize and if you think it is maybe even if it does it'll be very short, lived and anything you want in your life, whether the car or there was a girl over those money. When you got it a year later, you're back to zero, your brain had Hedonic Lee adapted to it, and you were looking for the next thing. That's a great statement. Hedonic Lee adapted, that is what happens to people and you get a car some to whatever it is. I realized that when I first got a new apartment, it was a nice apartment after awhile get used to it. I was like oh ok. This is just an apartment. Just well, I'm used it's nice, but I'm used to it. We all go this learning. It's it's. You know it's riding the Ferris wheel of life. It's like you get at the bottom like get the top. That's so exciting! You write it up. You get a little help me in russian Gail serotonin. Then you write it back town is that wears off? Then you need another high. Then you write it back up and write it back down. In fact, the more high as you get the ha work has to go around the wheel, more bored, you get
the harder. It goes to go back up. So what your fire now like? What? What gets you motivated to do things and to act? Art art? This is art. Okay, art! Is this creativity? It's just anything. That's done for its own sake. So what are the things that are done for their own sake? There's nothing behind loving somebody creating something plain art to me put creating businesses play. I create businesses early stage, because it's fun, because I I I I mean to the product. Even when I invest it's because I like the people I like hanging out with them, I learned for them at in the product is really cool. So these days I will pass on all kinds of great investments, because I'm like I'd just the products not interesting. It's boring, I'm not a learn, anything, that's a beautiful luxury. It is a luxury art and learning yeah. It is a luxury. These are not one hundred percent or zero things right. You can, in your life, start moving more and more towards that right. But it's a goal is a goal.
When I was younger, I used to be so desperate to make money that I wouldn't done anything right. If you showed up and said hey, I got a sewage, trucking business and I go into that was a great. Let's do I want to make money? Thank God. No one gave me that opportunity, I'm glad that it went down the road of technology and science which I generally enjoy, and so I got to combine my vocation and my advocate. I mean what are you doing, you're playing you're having fun you're, doing art you're, not you're, not working? No, that's what I would say when people say a worker item like sorta, not really I'm always working, but it looks like work to them, but it feels like play Tammy and that's how I know no one can compete with me on it because I'm just playing sixteen hours a day and if they want to compete with me and they going to work, they going to lose cuz they're not going to do it. Sixteen hours a day week, listen man! There are some gems of wisdom in this conversation and I hope people pull things out of this and apply them to their own life, and I'm certainly
going to listen to you again and and and try to apply some this to my own life stuff that I'm not already applying. But we appreciate your time, and I really appreciate you coming in here. Thanks for having and um, please tell people you know small little podcast is just then of all podcast right. Yeah best way to find me is on twitter, actually just at Nerv all that I have a website at n, a v dot, a l have a Youtube channel the ball and I have a podcast. Well, that's it! Thank you very much. Thank you. I really appreciate it. Thank you, bye. Everybody. Thank you for tuning into the show and thank you to our sponsors. Thank you to blue apron, get yourself some delicious food and cook it up with, without all the hassle of going buying everything out of a fucking recipe book. We have to things down and pick up all the ingredients. Blue apron, take care all that shit and you can delicious brag worthy meals at home without the hassle, try blue apron
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Transcript generated on 2019-09-13.