Bernie Sanders is a 2020 Presidential Candidate of the Democratic Party and is currently serving as the U.S. Senator of Vermont. https://berniesanders.com/
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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or you go to simply save dot com, Slash Rogan, so that they know that this show sent you. I m p l, I s a f e, simply safe dot com, Slash Rogan by guest today, don't want is running for president. He is super popular. He really needs no introduction. You know him, you love him or you don't, but either way I do he's a great guy. I really enjoyed talking to him, give it up for Bernice and the jail broken experience, trying my day, Joe Rogan podcast by night all day, hello Bernie. How are you wonderful, pleasant me to die for me, it's exciting to have you here, man and it's obviously an exciting time for you. You know presidential campaign is up in full swing. Do you? Do you get frustrated by the time constraints of the debate?
Absolutely it's! You shouldn't even call them a debate. What they are is a um. You know reality tv show in which you have to come up with a sound bite. No that stuff it is the meaning that's the meaning, to the candidates and it's the meaning to the american people. You can't explain the complexity, health care in America in forty five seconds. Nobody can, but why is it still done that way of you to try to do? Let's pull this thing, you know, I think the Dnc is in a difficult position. They have twenty plus candidates and they want to give everybody a fair shot, which is is the right thing to do on then, if you're gonna have ten candidates up
on the stage, what do you do, but there are other ways that we've got to do it because the issues facing this country are so enormous and in some cases so complicated. Nobody in the world can honestly explain them in forty five seconds and then that what encourages people to do is to come up with sound bites to do absurd things. If I yelled in scream on the show I took my clothes off, it would get a lot of publicity right. Yeah give a thoughtful answer to a complicated question. It's not so sexy for the video, but you don't even have a chance to give a thoughtful answer. Like Tulsi Gabbert went after Kamala, Harris and Kamala Harris at about twelve seconds. To reply to it was so ridiculous to to have something. That's such an important issue did your. Did you not put all those people in jail for marijuana? Did you laugh about it? Did this happen? Did that happen? All these different things with was evidence withheld that's out
they. These are a long conversations, but it takes us to another issue and that as a nation, we do a pretty bad job in analyzing and discussing the serious issues facing our country, and I I hold the media to some degree responsible for that. You know other countries what they do is the job you want to run for president, but whatever your party in the general election, we're going to give you a certain amount of time hours on television use those hours anyway, you want one of fifteen minutes discussed. Remember Ross Perot, yes, and people used to laugh at Ross. Perot deal with the chart and all this stuff and the me who made fun of 'em, but in fact he tried in his own way to explain his point of view to the american people and we need serious discussion on on serious issues. Well, he had the because he was so rich. He had the ability to buy airtime on network television, which is pretty unprecedented. He just bought
a chunk of their time and then pled his case, but you know what goes on in other countries. You don't have to buy that time. What the obligation is, if you are a network you're going to make that I'm free and available to Canton. Do you think that that's something that could be viable in America? We could. Could you convince CBS and NBC and ABC to go along with something like that? No, you couldn't convince them. You would have to pass legislation to make the, but everyone's online today the entire country is essentially getting email and Facebook and all that jazz like why bother doing it in this particular medium. That has an inherent time constraint, but you're right I mean the internet. Has revolutionized politics and in many ways good ways we use our oh Shal media. How email list, which is very large we every day, was sent them out stuff and other candidates are doing it the same way, but television still has a very important role to be played. I'm sure it does, but I mean the ability to discuss things in long form like you
can do online like you can do right here right now. You can't get that on television. What you could I mean if you had to do it, the state had to interrupt you. Every fifteen minutes know know know, know know what I'm saying about is is what goes on in other countries. If I'm not mistaken, I don't hold me this. I think in the UK you remember that a part of your candidate. He is thirty minutes of time, and you do with it as you want. You want to speak thirty minutes on health care whatever it. Maybe you could do really and they don't interrupt with commercial. No, no! That's the Lord that they have given. This. Is the candidates opportunity to speak at length through the people of the country? What the? What are the misconceptions of you, because Here'S- here's the if you go to the knee jerk conservative reaction, you talk to people who are not interested in anyone that wants to be a democratic socialist. They hear the name Bernie Sanders. The negative implication are that you are somehow or another going to take their money right. Did you
annoying to you? Yes, it is, of course it is also that I missed the Maduro. I'm a dictator would love to ships and all that stuff, and the truth is Joe that if you look at the issues that I paint on what I believe they are really not terribly radical. They exist in many countries all over the world, for example, just weaken start on health care. If you'd like is the idea that health care is a human right, not a privilege, a radical idea,
I don't think it is it's not, and the truth is we are the only major country on earth. Many people don't know this. We're the only major country on earth not to guarantee health care to all people as a human right, and yet we end up spending almost twice as much per capita on health care the function, and you can argument with me if you want, but the function of the current health care system is not to provide quality capable it is to make tens of billions of dollars in profit for the drug companies and the insurance companies. That's the function. If you go to Canada and I live fifty miles away from the canadian border, you have major heart surgery, you're in the hospital for a month. Do you know what the bill is when you get out zero? You got it. You got any doctor, you want, you don't have to take out your wallet,
yet they guarantee health care all of their people and they spend one slash two of what we spend that's kind of what I want to go, and I don't think that that's terribly radical. We have a program now, which everybody knows it's called Medicare was started by Lyndon Johnson back in one thousand nine hundred and sixty five. It is a popular program. All that I want to go over a four year period is to expand the today eligibility age is sixty five want to take it out of fifty five. Forty five, thirty five everybody over four year period. That's about it and I want to expand benefits to include a dental care.
It's a high classes as well. That's about it not too radical, but that doesn't some alcohol. Now when you say that the the tenor spends less. Obviously they have less people, you mean less per capita as path per capita and in the quality of care is as good or better do. They have problems yeah their problems. Everybody has problems, but overall the health care experts will tell you the quality of care. There is as good or better than it is in our country. So what's the hurdle? Okay, I'll, tell you exactly what her last hurdle is exactly the same thing is in every other aspect of our lives. It's the power of money, art! Listen to this over the last twenty years. The drug companies alone have spent four and a half billion dollars in twenty years.
On lobbying and campaign contributions, that's what we're up against the knowledge- and I mark my words within a short period of time. You will see tv ads, California, all over this country, demonizing Bernie Sanders. He wants to do this terrible thing to you. He wants to do that. They have believable amounts of money on politicians are frightened off that power. Give you one example back in two thousand and sixteen I got involved here in a little way with an effort on the part of the nurses to control of the course. The script
and drugs in California may recall that effort. It was a ballot item in one state here in California. Do you know how much the drug companies alone spent a defeat that they spent one hundred and thirty one dollars million on one ballot item in one state all right? Last year the top ten drug companies made sixty nine dollars billion. A week ago I went to Canada with a number of Americans who are dealing with diabetes. We bought insulin in Windsor Ontario for one slash, ten, the price ten percent of the same exact product being charged in America. So you got a drug company, is that are engaged in collusion and in price fixing who are incredibly greedy and the result is many elderly people. Many working people simply cannot afford the medicine they need. This is it's unbelievable, and the reason for all of that stuff is we're the only country in the world that does not negotiate with the drug companies. They can charge you any price they want, and that has to do with the fact that we don't have a national health care Program, Medicare
not to go shooting and such is this something that can really be implemented inside of four years yeah. So it's an enormous endeavour. Well, I want you to think back. Think back Joe in one thousand nine hundred and sixty five. You had Linda Johnson's president and play the way this idea of national. This has been talked about literally since Teddy Roosevelt is not a new concept. Healthcare is human with Teddy Roosevelt Teddy Roosevelt was talking about that's what FDR was talking about. Harry Truman was talking about, Kennedy was talking about Kennedy got killed, then Johnson picked up the mantle and their idea was. According to people in their administration will start with the elderly or most impacted by health care costs and sickness will start, and they did in one thousand nine hundred and sixty five without the technology we have today. They implemented Medicare nineteen million people, elderly people signed up in the first year. So if you could slot a brand new program,
nineteen million people signed up with the technology that is way way behind. Where we are today, why can't we over A4 year period simply expand that program? I don't think it's such a a difficult op. So when you talk about the drug companies and the lobbyists and the enormous amount of money that they spend is this exist anywhere else other than United States lobbyists. On that level and the re you know in Canada, what you have is you have a national healthcare program and so forth and they sit down eight. They negotiate with the drug companies, they have their own approach, but every other major country on earth says that the drug companies question can charge us any price you want. This is a reasonable price. Tell me what your profits are with your expenditures are. This is the price for us UK walking. You know if you have an illness, you could walk into the phone we'll see tomorrow and the price has been doubled and you say to the pharmacist: what happened is that they just raised their prices. They could do it any day. They want any price they want. No lobbyists are in
in general, when people talk about lobbyists and it's it's a an unattractive term. We we think a bit in terms of a negative. We don't we don't think of all thank others lobbyists. We think wow, there's someone with enormous amounts of money using that money to gain influence on politicians and it shapes regular people. It shapes our lives, mostly in a negative way. This is the way most people look at. I'm not saying it's correct. Why? Why do we have that system in place like? Why do we have lobbyist? Why is it legal for someone who exorbitant amount of money exorbitant amount money to affect our civil station to affect the way our culture? Where are you taking us into a whole new area? Yeah? Alright, let's look
yeah the tour and only d'oh d'oh. Today, in America you got three people owning more wealth in the bottom half of the american society. You don't see that on television too much of you, no, you don't three people. You got the top one percent owning more wealth than the bottom. Ninety two percent- listen to this. This is a statistic we recently saw came from the Federal Reserve over the last thirty years. The top one percent has seen a twenty one dollars trillion increase
in their wealth. The bottom half of America seen a nine hundred dollars billion decline in their wealth. So what you have in America today is a relatively small number of incredibly wealthy people, and I deal with these guys every day. People are always talking about rich. You don't know what riches, what multibillion dollar operations off incredible power over our society, and if you want a pharmaceutical industry, and last year ten companies made sixty nine dollars billion in profit. You're sitting around right now saying all right, that's great how'd! We do better next year. What strategy do we have a lot of ads on we're gonna work with other during the CNN debate that I participated in recently in the debate right in the middle of the debate. The drug companies in the insurance companies had an ad telling how bad so called how bad Medicare for role would be, so they smart notes and they use their power. Over politicians use their power over the media. They spend billions of dollars on advertising on media to make
sure that they make as much as I can profit, but it's not any different with Wall Street, it's not any different with the fossil fuel industry or the prison industrial complex. These guys have wealth, they have power and they could care less about the needs of working people in this country, and that's the dynamic of american politics. No and in our campaign, Look were taken them all along, and you know it makes a lot of people uncomfortable, but we are taking on all of these entities and all of their wealth and all of their power, and that's what a political revolution is about. So the real problem seems to be that they have this strategy of unlimited growth, not that they're not providing medication that people need to save their lives. I mean it's obviously important to have a pharmaceutical company course, of course, right so there's good that they provide, but the business aspect of it is where the problem lies right. Look they have great research is, but if you check how they eat
spend their money, you know they will tell you that all of them want to research and develop were charged with tackling cancer with tackling diabetes, Alzheimer's. The truth is, of course they are, but the bulk off their money is going off into what we call the meat too drugs. They make modest changes in the drug, which really doesn't improve people's well being in order to make profits. So the answer is yes, we need obviously vigorous research and development and by the way you a tax dollars. All of our tax dollars often goes to that research and we don't get the benefit of in terms of lower prices. So it's just it's a business model issue. It's agreed issue. You've got it and how would one
stop that, when you're dealing with this kind of influence that you talked about with sixty nine dollars billion in a year I mean the resource? Is they have? How would you stop that? Well, that is kind of what we call the sixty four thousand questions, yeah and I'll. Tell you what I think this is what I believe if you think back on american history and you think about the real changes that have taken place in society. You think about the labor movement and working class people standing up and saying to their employers, we're not gonna, be treated like animals anymore, you can't hire and virus. You can't work us, you know fifteen hours a day, we deserve dignity and you think about the growth of the labor movement of millions of people, beginning to slam together and fight you think about the civil rights movement. You know and
wasn't just Dr Martin Luther King Jr was again millions of African Americans and white allies say we're going to end segregation and racism in this country about about the women's movement. A hundred years ago, women in America didn't even have the right to vote. Think about the gay rights movement think about the environmental. The only way the change takes place is when ordinary people come together and stand up and fight and say that the status quo is not working and that's what I believe and that's what we're trying to do so with the message of now. What campaign is? It's us, not me 'cause. I can't do it alone. Let me be very honest with you by reelected president tomorrow. I can't do the things that I would like to do that I'm campaigning on
unless millions of people were working with me to tell the corporate elite that they cannot get it all. So how would that be implemented? Let's say you become president you're gonna become president. You think we're gonna shut it a shot. President Bernie. What do you do you get in there? What do you do? First of all, you make a very clear you make it clear to the american people what your agenda is, and I appreciate the opportunity to talk about an agenda and in more than twelve seconds I. What is what are we gonna fight for Medicare for all we're going to raise the minimum wage to a living wage? We are going to deal with education and a profound will be such a profound way, because I worry about what's going on in education today. Everybody knows that the ages of zero through four
or are the most important years for human, intellectual and emotional development right. Every psychologist will tell you that, and yet we have a totally dysfunctional early childhood system. You pay. We pay our child workers, starvation wages, yet working class families cannot find affordable quality childcare. You got our public school systems all around this country, in many of them really being challenged right now, teaches that run to pay teachers are working two or three jobs. You got kids who can't afford to go to college and here's something that is just unbelievable kids who have gone to college leaving school with one hundred and fifty thousand dollars in debt. Unbelievable.
These are issues that we have to deal with and I will deal with him and we are gonna substantially improve the quality of education. America, we're gonna, cancel student debt by imposing a tax on Wall Street speculation. All right, so you gotta deal with education. You've got to deal with climate change, you know the truth is that Donald Trump is that wrong. Climate change is not a hoax. It is a very, very dangerous reality for our country and the rest of the world signed. This tell us we have less than twelve years to transformer and system away from fossil fuel or there would be irreparable damage, so those are in health care, of course, for all, so those are some of the major issues: criminal justice, immigration reform. You lay on the table, you see. These are the issues that we are going to focus on rally the american people around those issues, and you tell people like Mitch. Mcconnell, who represents a very poor state in Kentucky,
if you all going to oppose raising the minimum wage to at least fifteen dollars an hour. I will be in Kentucky as president of the United States and we're going to have a rally because you're going to have to stop representing- and I hope, by the way that Mitch Mcconnell is not the leader. I hope that Democrats can gain control over the Senate, but if he is we'll put enormous pressure on him to do what the peep I want every idea, Joe here's, the bottom line on this link. Every idea that I've just talk to you about is supported by a majority of the american people. These are not radical ideas. Let's, let's take things one step at a time. 'cause. You mentioned a lot of important things there, let's go with the minimum wage thing now. The argument that I've heard about the minimum wage being raised to fifteen dollars an hour is that their entry level positions for high school kids for people that are just getting their feet wet market place the learning how to work to learn the they're, making some money after school that day, the that, if you charge or if businesses have to
pay fifteen dollars an hour to people like that to the entry level, people that they won't be able to stay open well, first of all, they will be competing against. You know if your business number business and both of us to raise our wages at the same level, we both have the same burden. So what's it Brett spread across. That is what my conservative colleagues will tell you. The truth is, I don't have the numbers right in front of me that, while they certainly is true that young people do work at Mcdonald's in the minimum wage jobs, a significant and majority of the workers, not kids, they are often and I'd met them at Mcdonald's. They all work who have children themselves. When we we work very hard to raise the minimum wage at Amazon and it Disney. We put pressure on both of those companies and they did the right thing and when you talk to the people at Amazon who got that raise, these are
kids. These are people in their 30s. These. These are ordinary adults who cannot make it on one thousand two hundred and thirteen dollars an hour. So I think the arg isn't all their old kids is not really quite accurate. Well, even that all they're they're all kids, but that if they are kids, what would you think of I'm making a minimum wage for someone who is under eighteen? That's different from a minimum wage of someone who's, a legal adult? I'm not I'm not for that. I think we do it and and look many of the these young people are have their own needs. I just talked to talked to a young woman who is working going to college working full time trying to take care of a family as well. So I think look the am wage has not been raised in ten years. It is now seven dollars and twenty five cents an hour which is clearly unacceptable. Cost of housing.
California, all over this country, is rising fairly rapidly. People can't afford health care can't afford college. I don't think it's asking our employers too much to pay at least fifteen miles an hour minimum itch now. I'm glad you brought up Amazon is one of the things that always freaks me out is when I find out that enormous corp questions that make billions of dollars of tax loopholes where they literally pay no money. How is possible, and how do you stop that? Well, it's the same thing as the drug companies. How was it possible that we pay ten times more for insulin in this country and for other drugs and doing it in Canada or core countries around the world, and the answer is its power. So what is what is the goal of major corporations in America to be deregulated as much as possible? So in some cases they can
loot our water, our air, our environment. It's also not the panty taxes come Trump campaign. As I recall he said, my tax plan is not going to benefit the wealthy. It's going to benefit working people turns out over ten years. Eighty three percent of the benefit at the end of ten years goes to the top one percent. That's what these guys do. I remember I'm. The co ranking member on the budget Committee in the Senate and some guy came would representing one of the big business organizations.
This is their agenda. Their agenda was to cut social Security, Medicare and Medicaid and to do away with all corporate Texas. So what you have right now, that's that's what greed is about. They want it all. So, as you indicated, you have a company like Amazon owned by Jeff Bezos, who happens to be the wealthiest guy in America worth about one hundred and fifty billion Amazon paid zero in federal income taxes, and it's not just them. Dozens of corporations paid nothing or very, very little of all about. You got these guys able to stash all over the world and trillions of dollars, trillions of dollars in the Cayman Islands in Bermuda in Luxembourg, another tax savings that is insane and that is going to end yeah. How is it legal to do that? Why is it legal joke? It is legal because they make the laws right all right. You know that is what
here you're touching now on the heart and soul of the tragedy of american politics, as it happened that uh an issue after issue the american people. The working class of this country want something nobody pays any attention to it, but billion has won something and it gets done and that has to do with a corrupt political system. So right now, if you are the Cole brothers or some multi billionaire, you say to the leadership of the republican body and in some cases the democratic body, hey guess what we're prepared to put hundreds of millions of dollars into it came one hundred millions of dollars coming from one or two people, and here is my agenda. I want tax breaks. I wanted to read system which will enable me to shut down in this country and go to China or Mexico and pay people their two bucks an hour. I want to be able to do more pollution 'cause. I don't like all of this. You know money. I have to spend preventing pollution of the arrow, the water, that's what I want you to do and by the
I'm worried about the deficit, so you make it cut social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. How many Americans actually believe that we should give tax breaks the billionaires and cut social Security, Medicare and Medicaid very few? That is pretty talk to Mitch Mcconnell get Mitch on the show. That is exactly what he believes, but that's ridiculous right, and it seems that if you just took away those tax breaks, the enormous amount of money that would come from those corporation having to pay their fair share would take care of out of the expenses of all these things that you're proposing exactly how like. Okay, let's talk about the education, because the idea of free education is a wonderful thing for people um, I mean the idea that you get out of college and you're in debt in in an insane amount that you might have ten twenty years where you have to pay it back, and I know many people that are in Georgia, people who are getting the
social security checks garnish right now, it's ten to twenty years. It's some places, it's literally a lifetime. Now, a lot of that is, it's got it in some way be preventable by what we're talking about here, how you would pay for it I mean how will tell you exactly how would pick okay and we pay for every idea that we have we pay for, and we pay for it by understand thing that today we have massive levels of income and wealth inequality and we have in many cases the wealthy and large corporations being nothing or very little in taxes. Here is the issue in terms of education. Forty, fifty years ago you were an average american working class person. You graduated high school, especially if there was a union around you can go out and get a job and making it into a middle class. You could own your
own home. You could send your kids to school. You lived a pretty good life made it in the middle class, forty or fifty years later. There's an explosion of technology, there's a growth in unfettered free trade, and it is clear now that most people to make it into the middle class are gonna need a higher education. That's college, or maybe it's technical training in water have become a skilled worker. It is insane to me to deny working class people in lower income people the opportunity to get that education, because the cost of college has sought. So all that I say is that, ah one hundred plus years ago, the american people said that we should have free public education. I went to a public school. My parents didn't pay, a nickel went to kindergarten. I went through the 12th grade, pretty good education in Brooklyn New York. All that I'm saying is
world has changed and high school degree is not good enough anymore, so expand that concept through college now guess what thirty years ago? Do you know him? It's the University of California very great university cost in terms of tuition, how much virtually free? What's it now lighter note, but it's pretty high. It is hard thousands results, so you had great universities, like the University of California City University of New York State, which is all over this country where tuition was virtually free and then what happened for a variety of political reasons. States and the federal government started cutting back on higher education and put more and more burden on the student with higher and higher tuition, which is where we are today so uh. What I'm saying is in the year two thousand and nineteen two one thousand and twenty. If our working class kids going to go out and get the jobs that are out there, they need a they need, a higher education which should be tuition free
in terms of the cancellation of debt, which is my view. You got forty five million people arm who I with that I'll. Never forget this is where are really hit me. I was in linked in Vermont, had a meeting on an issue and a young woman comes up and she says she's a doctor. She graduated medical, so she's, very happy. She's practicing in a community health center loves what she is doing said burn. I got to tell you, though I am three hundred thousand dollars in debt, probably going to medical school. I couldn't believe it. I was in Iowa a young woman, four hundred that the dolls and that this is not unusual for medical schools and and dental schools- and you know ordinary people. Fifty thousand a hundred thousand dollars for going to college will getting a master's degree. We promise these young people he said. Go to college, come on get education, you'll get decent, paying jobs. Well, the answer is they have not been able to do that. So what we have proposed in one piece of legislation or two actually is toe- make public colleges,
cities, tuition, free, cancel student debt in this country that will cost two dot. Two trillion dollars a lot of money over a ten year period. We do this through a tax on Wall Street speculation, which will bring in two dot four tr. He knows we bailed out Wall Street eleven years ago and by the way, these are crooks on Wall Street who engaged in illegal behavior taxpayers against my vote, bailed them out. If we can bail out Wall Street, you know what we can cancel student debt and provide public college single tuition free when you say a tax on Wall Street speculation. What exactly do you mean attacks on all of the sale of attacks, people buy and sell stocks and bonds? All we have a very modest tax on that and by the way it will have an impact on speculation by cutting back on the high frequency trading, which we don't see, so you would just there. Is there there's no current tax on direct, so you would put a small amount and that would do the
job that would that would raise more than enough money. It's a very small town. It exists a small how much it depends on the nature, the transaction, but it's less than one slash two of one percent really yeah and that we could ever yeah because the amount of stocks being saying So- and this is not again a new idea- it's it's being done in countries all over the world. What about the here's? One of the darkest things about student loans? Is that if you go bankrupt it doesn't matter, you still owe that and that that's kind of crazy. I mean if you have like a serious medical issue, if you're held up whatever. Whatever happens you that's awful, you go bank
upped. Most of those things are resolved, but not student loans, a man again. This looks through the and that has to do with bankruptcy law, which was passed against my vote on. While you were on bankruptcy- and I should have mentioned this before when you talk about the health care system- one slash, two: a million Americans every single year go bankrupt because off medical bill simply can't pay, but right. You know I talked to this guy in the battle. Never figured it guys Bernie. You know im open my it guys in his fifties. So you know I, I I've been paying off my student debt for years, I'm going no, where, because the interest rates are high and I feel very much, which is the case that they will start going fishing taking away my social security checks taking money away from me, so people are carrying this burden. The result is
they can't in many cases, get married and have kids. They certainly can't buy a home the camp by a call there really crushed by this debt, and what was the crime? What did they do? They try to get a higher education, a pretty crazy and a lot of them when they do this higher education there, eighteen years old, imagine make a decision when your brain isn't even fully formed. It's gonna affect you for the rest of your life. You've got it exactly right and you talk to these kids. How much that? Do you? Oh? What kind of interest rate shipping Gee? I really don't know. They just told me to sign up. Now, right now we are a week, I'm not even a week out just few days away from two mass shootings in a row and whenever these things happen, there's.
All these people that want action, but nobody knows exactly what to do. There's calls for gun control. This calls for mental health reform. Health calls there's calls what, if anything, can be done to stop these things from happening, and how have you sat down and tried to come up with some sort of a solution and is there a solution? Look, I would be lying to you. If I told you I had a magical answer: uh I don't, and this is
such a horrific situation. You know we were in a way had a town meeting we're in a batter actually in LAS Vegas when El Paso Happened- and we didn't tell me- and I said, let's take a moment of silence- to remember the victims and pray for the survivors literally the next day- another part of LAS Vegas. I have to do it again and I said I can't believe that just yesterday we did this and I have to do it again. This is, I don't know what the words my friend Baidoa rock would say that you don't know what words. What can you say? It happens again and again, who can imagine some lunatic walking into a school or a mall, we're just on a nightclub area taken out of the assault, weapon and shooting people, and that we almost become to accept this is a normal part of american life. Is
incredible, is just totally demoralizing all right. So here's what I think, there's no magical answer and but let me tell you what I think. First of all, this is the reality. The reality is that today, as we speak, there are approximately four hundred million guns in America. Today we have more guns than we have people we have between five to ten million assault weapons and an assault. Weapon, as you know, is a military style weapon designed to kill human beings kind of rapidly. So that's and then on top of that we have again nothing to be proud off, but you know we have a number off mentally unstable people, people whatever reason walking the streets, a suicidal, the homicidal, that's the mix that we have. I think the answer is, and I'm not the guy to invent
all these ideas, but here's some of what we have to do. First will, if you want to own a gun in America you have got to. We have got to know that you are a stable person, and that means that we need to expand of it it it it the background checks the currently exist. Okay, so we got to know. Did you beat up your wife? Have you committed crimes of it's a treat such? What is the state to be mental health up number two will make that universal number two right now that there is a background check. If you walk into a gun, show it does look into a gun shop, but you can buy guns in various states at a gun show, and you don't have to do any of that. You know I go to a country, you sell me a gun, I don't have to you know I don't have to do it. Third of all, I
can today legally walk into a gun, show up past the background check and buy a dozen guns, walk out and sell them to criminal elements who will use them for bad things. So I think those are issues that most Americans believe we have got to deal with him we can. Fourthly, I happen to believe- and I believe this for thirty years- that we should not be selling or distributing assault weapons in this country. They are weapons of mass destruction. In a sense, they kill people rapidly, as we sort and thank God, by the way when we talk about both Dayton and then I'll Paso. Thank God cops with that very very quickly and did an incredible job, because that guy had walked into the nightclub that could have been dozens and dozens more people killed in within a few minutes. I happen to believe that we should not be selling or distributing
assault weapons in this country. That's my deal period. S o, I believe, in a ban on a stolen that I think we have got to begin thinking about when we have five to ten million assault weapons, which is more than the U S military has we have to think about it, strong licensing procedure in terms of who owns these assault women. So that's some of what I think there are many other things, but those are some of the ideas that are out there. Now the legal gun owners who are are law abiding citizens who would never in a million years think about going around shooting people, but they love guns. We hear this kind of stuff about like banning assault rifles, banning assault weapons. They don't even like the term assault weapons right would like to refer to them as their individual names or whatever they are. These people feel like this is an inexorable part of being an american that you should be able to own a gun. It's written
into our bill of rights is written into our the the the the the way we the what where this country was founded. It's the second amendment. What do you say to those people that don't that don't want to give up their gun things with it, wouldn't do and they want to protect themselves. They feel, like guns, are viable options to protect themselves from criminals. I understand that and Joe you may know. I am a senator from the state of Vermont, and the state of Vermont is one of the most world states in America. Every form hope thousands and thousands of people are out in the woods hunting and it's something of tradition. I believe in it, I believe in the second amendment, but all that I ask of the governor's in your absence
right. Ninety nine point: nine percent of gun owners would never, in a million billion years, think of doing these horrible things. But in the moment that we are living in a, but I think that we're all going to have to make some concessions to the reality of what is going on, and that is that there is a small number of. Call him what you want to pray for people who are prepared to do that. You know in Australia, you'll. Remember that terrible New Zealand, I'm sorry the terrible shooting a tte, the mosque and they move pretty quickly in an aggressive way. So you know I wish I can say in in the best of all possible worlds: yeah, you know you could own any weapon, you want and so forth, and so we're not living in the best of all possible worlds were living in a world. Where was shocked every day,
I agree. We are living a terrible situation, I mean there's hundreds of mass shootings a year now, which is insane and if you look at the number in comparison to the rest of the world, it's crazy, like a big one in other countries like three mass shootings in a year we had more than two hundred and seventy it's it's crazy. But how would you implement something like this? Well, the idea of banning assault weapons has been done in one thousand nine hundred and ninety four, we banned assault weapons. I believe I believe it was for ten years of
that Ben was undone by republican majority uh and it didn't you know, I'm not suggesting by the way than anything here that if you banned assault weapons tomorrow, that will radically change everything, but we have got to do the best that we can do. And again I preface my remarks by telling I don't have a magical solution. You've got hundreds of millions of guns out that you have people who should not be owning these guns who gets set off by God knows what and do terrible things all we can do is the best that we could do. But to say we can't do anything. I think it's a real disservice to the American I'll. Tell you something else that bothers me. You know, in addition to the horror of seeing people lying on, the street dead is what this is doing to the children of this country, and I think we underestimate that I have seven grandchildren and in
for them and for kids all of this country, you're, going to see the falls coming. Kids, going back to school, you're going to see in schools all over America drills all right. This is what you do if somebody walks into the school all right you, the height on the here, you go over there. Kids are a couple months ago I was in Iowa this kinds about six foot, two big guy, probably a football player, and he says Senator Sanders. I got to tell you that the young people in my school are increasingly frightened terrified about what could happen in the school think about what this that, from the trauma. Of of what this gun violence is doing, so I think what we'll do is: is Americans Lane easy answers? He by double gonna have to come together and and figure this one out and and do the best we can now. What would that mean forcibly
removing these guns from people's homes? I don't think you're going to have the FBI knocking on somebody's doors and taking it. That's not what we do in America. You know if you have four hundred million guns already out there and they're building more every year. Right now, as we speak, gun manufacturers or May manufacturers are making more guns. This is happening right now, so if those guns already exists, it's more than enough, oh yeah, how would you stop. Well again, I think look you know, I do think that be a ban on assault weapons, so that means that manufacturers would not be able to produce or sell those weapons. Two american citizens not to to military, obviously, obviously, okay, so you know- and your point is well taken about four hundred million guns out there- you know approaches. No one has any magical solution, but I've, given you I'll tell you something else that I didn't mention, and that is the role of gun manufacturers is that
if you are a gun manufacturer and you are selling a hell of a lot of guns to a gun store in an area which normally would not think think these guys, these, you know what cities, by what towns, by comedy guns and suddenly there is a tremendous demand you gotta be thinking and be. Why is why is this gun store buying? So many guns doesn't reflect the population in the area you gotta deal with that issue with the gun owners have to take some response. Besides the guns, the gun manufacturers, I'm besides the and then manufacturers. The other gigantic issue is mental health. The own only way any of this ever happens is someone has to the insanely mentally depraved is the only way, and many of them are medicated. And many of them are on pharmaceutical drugs and they have been since they were children, including
amphetamines, like Adderall and Prozac, and all this different stuff that has varied effects on the human brain. What could be done? What would you done to analyze this to find out what the cause and effect are and to try to figure out what roll and how much these drugs are responsible with two things? Let me response respond purse by saying it goes without saying that we have a mental health crisis in America before we even talk and for whatever reason you know there are a lot of people in the nature of our healthcare system. Going back to health care is, I just talked to a woman delete. Last night we had a town meeting, and she said this is unbelievable. She said. Burning, I was in LAS Vegas when the terrible shooting took place.
And now I am- and I could understand this perfectly- I'm seeing Dayton and I'm seeing watching television, El Paso and I'm getting a p t p s PTSD reaction, all right, that's totally. If you were in a place where people were shot down and I'm trying to get counseling, I can't point it. I remember a guy called up a woman called up my office in Burlington Vermont, and she said I'm worried about my husband what he my Publicises brother, what he might do to himself with somebody else we're looking for mental health counseling. We can't find something that we can afford. So we need above and beyond gun violence. We need an answer why I believe in Medicare, for all mental health is health care. You break your arm. That's a health issue with a bed. That's a medical issue. Mental health is a medical issue and we have got to big mental health counseling available to all people, this country, when they need it not six months from now at a price they can
Ford and on Medicare Medicare would be free. So that's the phone number to your point about studying the impact of drugs are on people's behavior and possibly resulting in violence absolutely deserve it's to be studied. We should be studying the impact of drugs. In my view, this is a layman's view. You know not a psycho. I worry very much that we over medicating kids in schools. You know we have this deficit deficient issue. Kids are running around in their active. You know when I was a kid we use the run around. They were active in order. Wasn't they were drugged up? I worry about the whole business, but your point is well taken. I think we need to study this issue and make sure that these drugs, in fact, on a closing kinds of reactions that you will regret later now on the subject of drugs. Marijuana is obviously a big issue in this country and we've seen many states make it recreation,
including this one. What do you think could be done and what should be done to have this across the especially federal? You know, there's a guy that I have on the podcast coming up soon as names John Norris, and he wrote a book on the cartel is growing marijuana illegally, all over this country and selling it, especially particularly in California. Now because it's a misdemeanor, because it's legal, recreational and selling it with all sorts of horrible pesticides on it all sorts of, like very in fact, deadly chemicals. All of this, because it's not federally legal, because we can't have sanctioned license companies doing an ethical job of growing something than any response
possible law abiding person should be able to consume uhm. Let me say this when I ran for President's with the democratic nomination in two thousand and sixteen I talked about a broken criminal justice system which ends up having in the United States more people in jail than any other country. We have more people in jail in China does, which is a car meanest authoritarian country, and what I call for then- and I call for Now- is the legalization of marijuana in America. Right now you have the federal law school. The controlled substance act he has her win here is marijuana there at the same level. That is insane her. When is a killer drug? You can argue the pluses and minuses of marijuana, but marijuana eight, her one. So we have to end and that's what I will do as president of the United States. I believe we can do that through
executive order, water, and I will do that. Second of all, we have now is number states and I'm very proud. I talked about during two thousand and sixteen but seemed kind of radical. They need to legalize decriminalize marijuana very radical idea four years ago spreading all over the country and by the way it blows my mind. The drive through Nevada, I think here in California, you'll see signs cooperate by our Marana yeah. If, for years, people getting arrested, you're doing that right, their lives destroyed or particularly Nevada. There was life sentence is given out in the 70s, and you believe that, and now you have rations selling the damn product the people went to jail for so I think ultimately, in a we've got to legalize marijuana in what's good news in a sense is some communities? Subsidies are expunging the records, so if you were arrested, have a criminal record for selling marijuana that is being expansion. That is the right
thing to do. You know we can argue about the pluses and minuses, I'm not a great fan of drugs. Other people smoke marijuana a couple of times didn't do much for me. Other people, I guess, have different in just a couple times. That's true, they didn't do much for you yeah, maybe we're getting it, but more than one that's the problem. Maybe they will do something for you well made me cough a whole lot, but I got the other. People have had different experiences, crush or yeah. I certainly have other problem is, of course, with illegal drugs. Comes you get this horrible cycle? Typically in inner cities, where you have people that are incarcerated for illegal drugs, illegal drugs seemed to be the only way out the hard drugs we're talking about cocaine and all these other drugs. How? How does one stop that, and would you ever consider legalizing all drugs or decriminalising now all drugs? Not at this point? No, I wouldn't
you're touching on a real tragedy. Yes, and when we talk about criminal justice in America, we have over two million people in jail. They are disproportionately african american, latino and native American and here's what I think I think in the wealthiest country, in the history of the world, what we have got to do, instead of building more jails and locking up more people, we really do have to invest in our young people, especially young people, in distress, communities. What does that mean if we can- and we can do this with the proper amount of resource- is make sure the kids are not dropping out of school? If you drop out of school today, you know so you drop out in your second third year of high school. You don't have an education and you don't have any job skills. What you gonna do with your life and the answer is, you may well do drugs, you know or you'll, get in trouble self, destructive activity or destructive activity and end up in jail.
It makes so much more sense from a humane perspective. Protecting our people, as well as a financial situation, will spend an eighty dollars billion yet to invest in these kids. What does it mean? It means making sure they get the education that they need paying attention, having good schools, making sure that they get the jobs that are out there doing job training. There was a principle in a school in southern Vermont and up to pick up, but she said it was a working class school and she said burning. I love these kids. I am not going to let them drop out and she had a mentoring program just watching the will, mostly at risk, so that they would not end up of going through the cracks and getting into trouble. That's what we should be doing as a nation, and when we do that we invest in the kids, we got em jobs, we gonna medication. The likelihood is that got the likelihood of them falling into bad ways. Is that the
even the reduced, the all those things sound great the uncomfortable reality about drugs, though, is that when drugs are illegal, criminal, seldom and there's, obviously a need for drugs in terms of not necessarily need, but uh. A demand for drugs is a demand for drugs in this country. That's absolutely fueling MAC, skin cartels and illegal drug runners inside this country I mean there's, there's a lot of that. How do you? How do you curb that if drugs are illegal, what you're raising a deep question? Yes art? So the question is centrally that you're asking is what is the because of the opioid epidemic? Yes, that's one of our one hour went over, but but the opioid epidemic. It's is interesting because there's so much of it that's coming legally right. That's
not to know what your heart tells. That's the pharmaceutical industry right. What do the heroin is? Legal, yes, art now you're asking this is a very, very deep question, which we don't talk about terribly much. Why is it that so many of our people are turning to drugs to alcohol by the way- and I don't mean to drink tonight, but I mean serious alcohol problems and, tragically to suicide. We now have for the last three years, something that is a historical, never happened before in modern history, and that is, our life expectancy is actually going down and this is hitting all over the country, but especially hitting rural areas, and what the doctors are saying is that these are diseases of despair, the space. So you were in West Virginia here in rural Ohio or a place for mom. The necklace.
And the job you used to have earning a decent living now in China. Your kid can't afford to go to college. Maybe you can't afford health care. You got nothing to look forward to. Under that scenario, drugs become alcohol becomes a way out, worse case, that's suicide, so I think what we're talking about is. Why is this happening often in rural areas and Herman as well? And how can we? How can we reestablish hope and optimism in the american people and that gets back to a lot of other issues? It means if people have health care is a right that will certainly play a role in this thing that walk into the doctor when they need, but it also means that people need recent jobs that pay them a living wage. You have to rebuild rural America, we have to rebuild it the press, communities in urban.
It means that we have to have a great educational system and people great Bernie, that's utopian. It is not utopian. This is something in the wealthiest country in the history of the world we can afford, and we should we doing rather giving creating situation where Amazon pay zero in federal income taxes. So to answer your question is a deep question and again I'm not here to tell you, I have all the answers, but there are a lot of people out there who are basically given up hope and for those people. I guess drugs is the alternate. So what you're saying essentially is that if we can do something to mitigate despair, then we'll do something to at least stop
up some of the demand for these these illegal. I believe that is the case. Look if I am optimistic. If I'm excited about going to work tomorrow and I'm seeing my kid doing great in school- and you know, when I get sick, I can't go to the doctor's office and have a sense of community. My downtown is not all bordered up, because businesses have left, but we have. We have a community yeah, like the strong likelihood is there will be less diseases of this baron drugs than we currently see. Now, when we're talking about impoverished communities and chronically when talking about cities like Baltimore or parts of Chicago and Detroit, that have just been in a terrible state of despair for long periods of time- and it doesn't seem like there's a way out the people that are born there, the people that live there, they live in this state of of despair. What what he'd done to resolve all these terribly impoverished communities and bring them up to a standard where these kids that grow up there that they
like there is an out that they do have an opportunity, and why is this not addressed when we talk about making America great, wouldn't like fixing the worst parts of the country, be the primary concern? The less people that grow up in a a disadvantageous position from birth would not be an important thing, and what can you do to resolve that? Well, troll, I think you, you know when you said it better than I can. I think, you're right. You know when we talk about what it means to live in the great society, a great nation, a nation that we're proud of I'm afraid there are always some people who have incredible wealth and power was so you know. What's great is the worst thing: a growth in the number of billionaires in America. Isn't that terrific we got one guy who's worth one hundred and fifty five dollars billion, how great, oh, by the way, we're building more nuclear weapons and we're spending seven hundred and fifty the billion dollars a year on the military? Isn't that extraordinary and by the way, see the yacht that that has you know it's three
miles long! Isn't that great? Your point is that we have to. I think, as I understand what you're saying we have to read to find what being a great nation is about. We are not a great nation when we have forty million people living in poverty and in despair, we're not a great nation. We have massive levels of income and wealth inequality. When eighty seven million people can afford to go to a doctor today. So they answer your question. I think that, as a nation, we have got to focus a great deal of attention on those distressed communities. Often they are African American, often that latino often they are rural white communities, and that means making sure that the kids they get the quality education that they deserve, making sure that we're creating good paying jobs in those communities. I voted against NAFTA. Permanent normal trade relations with China and other trade agreements, because I knew that those agreements were written by corporate America
with the goal of shutting down plants in this country and moving abroad, and the result of that has been the loss of millions of good paying jobs and the the complete destruction of communal all across this country in the south and all across this country. So we have got to rebuild those communities. We have got to bring high tech jobs, not just to Silicon Valley but to Rural America. Again, I don't have magical answers, but the goal, as we will not understand this administration turn our backs distressed communities. We will rebuild those committees. We will build the millions of units of affordable housing that we need nothing about what it means to a community. Now where people are living in Terre, mobile, housing or housing, we cannot afford. When we put young people to work. Building their own communities will become an indication of hope and optimism. I think it will what talking about so many deeply important issues and all all of them that will be under
the control or at least of the direction of the one person who winds up becoming the President United States. Is it impossible? I mean it seems like being the president. You are managing so many different aspects of our economy, our culture, our safety, our environment, internet, national communication, and it's so it's so in depth. How does one person do a job like that? One person doesn't do it and you certainly don't do it by tweeting every other day, major policy issues. I think he tweets a lot more than every other day. What you do and this
any sane president operates is you need to be working with the smartest men and women from all walks of life who understand the search. Every issue we have touched on Joe is enormously complicated and I can send out a you know, twenty or tweet on it, but that doesn't solve it. So, unlike Trump in a, we will bring together of the best and most knowledgeable people in this country to address the housing crisis. To address the issue of of these diseases of the spare, we don't even touch on climate change. You know, and in the future of the planet, had a week lead the world in transforming our energy system and creating the kind of jobs that we need. How do we revitalize american democracy so that, instead of suppressing the vote, we're getting more young people involved in the political process? So answer question: it is not a one person job and anyone who thinks it is is that wrong? You need the help of a very strong administration. That knows the issue that comes from the ranks of the working class, and this is the promise I will make her admire. Men.
Duration, unlike trumps, is not gonna be filled with billion as who's. You know, basically very often greedy type people. It is going to be filled with the best people from from the working class itself from the trade Union movement people who are going to help us create policies that work for workers and not just that the billion a class now we're getting to the end of your our here. So climate change is obviously an enormous issue for our country and for the world. What what could be done and what do you think you can do as per
resident that can somehow another slow down this this process? First of all, we have to have a president who, unlike Trump beliefs and science, that I do and what the scientists are telling us that mention early is that we have fewer than twelve years the transformer energy system, or else there will be irreparable damage done not only child country but to the world. Now. Climate change is not just an american issue, so we could do tomorrow, all the right things, but of China and Russia and India and the rest of the Brazil and Africa does not do the right thing. You know we're not gonna make the progress we need. So
here is what we have to do. In my view, number one we have to tell the fossil fuel industry that their short term profits and they make a whole lot of money. They're short term profits are not more important than the future of this planet. I don't think that's a hard sell to make. You cannot keep producing a product which is destroying the planet in the United States and around the world. So by saying that you're saying you would have to move a, we would have to move consciously away from fossil fuels. No, if so, but some may be, and if we do that, how do you tell the fossil fuel companies to tell them? You can't sell awesome fuels anymore. There are a variety of ways to do that, but that is the bottom line and and by the way, in the midst of that we do. What we call is a a just. Try the guy out on the oil rig today simply wants to feed his family in the coal miners today want to feed their families and we're not going to leave them. I'm a pro worker,
probably the strongest bro work a record of any member of the Congress. So it is not my intention to throw these guys out on the and women out on the street and ignore the pain that they will go through. We are proposing billions of dollars to rebuild those communities and make sure that those guys and women get new jobs, so we're not just discarding people in the fossil fuel industry, but ultimately the product that they're producing, which is now carbon emissions, is destroying the planet. So we have to move away from fossil you'll in a very bold way into energy efficiency. Right now, in my own state of Vermont and all over this country, there are buildings which all incredibly wasteful, we don't have the windows. We don't know the insulation, we don't have the roofing the doors that we need to keep the building's warm in the winter and cool end of the summer, and we can create just an incredible number of jobs, just retrofitting of buildings. Second of all, we need to move very
aggressively to sustainable energies like wind and solar in California. Doing a good job with win die was doing doing good Job Texas, doing a good job. We got to do much more solar. There is incredible potential out their prices. Solar has dropped in recent years and we have got to not only transform the energy system in our own country. We got to lead the world in working with Russia and China in this issue. We are in it together and here's my and maybe this maybe a utopian dream. The all right now we're spending a trillion and half dollars on weapons of destruction designed to kill each other, and may we just maybe if we had a kind of leader- and I hope to be that leader says to the world instead of spending a trillion and a half dollars killing each other. Maybe we use those resources to transform the global energy system and save the planet for our kids and our grandchildren. That's the goal that I have
well these these ideas sound great, but in the competitive environment of global politics. How would you convince Russia or China or any of these countries to do something that would put them in some sort of competitive disadvantage? Well- and the answer is Joe: if we do not do that in fifty one hundred years, everybody is going to be terrible decision and look I'm not. You know, I'm saying that I'm not telling you that tomorrow it's going to happen, but you gotta make the case these people, you know Putin, is dictator. I dislike him intensely. She in China, Burial Authority and softens up, but then a crazy people, and presumably they have concern about their kids and their grandchildren. This is a planet under siege. You know, I don't want to become a science fiction. You've all seen the movies of the media racing toward earth were gonna blow up the earth. What do we do? Well? Gotta get together. This isn't a sense. What that is about. You know what I think about in one thousand nine hundred and forty one uh after Pearl Harbor, all right. We
we're faced with a war in the east with China, a war in the West in Europe with Hitler. Within two years, the United States had transformed its economy to address and win the war. Basically, in two or three years by re industrialized, we can do it, we can lead the world, that's what we have to do. So in your eyes, we have to look at the economy almost as if the same kind of threat or excuse me, the environment, is it's the same kind of threat as nazi German and act together. Look if you test the Defense Department, you ask the CIA, you asked the fence people all over the world. Tell us what the great national security threat is. You know what it is. It is climate change, there's a a lot of people that are skeptical. That's. How would you convince that mean? This is a big part of the problem might as well give us an arid of that. You hear from a lot of people that well you know, climate change is not a proven. Science and climate change is a hoax, and I mean this is something that it over and over again and I'm sure some of it has to do with lobbyists, and some of it has to do with the merchants of doubt that go out there
and see the world with dissent from to try to increase their prof it's and continue. The practice is that they're currently enjoying you know Joe and uh thinking back on, but I don't know if all you listeners- I can't remember this because I'm older than most- but I remember tobacco and cigarette ads on television moment. Yes, doctor guy dressed in a white truck smoking away. This is a great cigarette. It'll improve your health, they lied. The tobacco and issued knew exactly what was going on and the fossil fuel industry is lying right now, and the President of the United States is either too stupid to understand what the scientists are telling us or he is lying as well climate. You look, I am not the sun. This is not my idea. I listen to the scientist. The debate is long over clock. I'm a change is real. My god, look at what's sitting around the world to the worst July was, I think, warmest July or warmest month in modern history of the world. The arctic ice is melting
deals in Europe. Alright, just look out the window at what's going on, so this is not Bernie Sanders talking. This is the scientific community. Climate change is real. It will only get worse if we do not act boldly to cut carbon emissions. What we just did an hour, sir, so I'm gonna let you go because I know you got very important things to do. One last question: if you got into the office and you found out something about aliens, you found out something about Ufos. Would you let us know we'll tell you my wife would demand that I'd. Let you know is your wife. You have found that doctors letter you have now, which is burning. What is going on, you have any access the records, you don't have any access. I don't know. Okay, you let us know all right I'll be on the show will not sit on the show a lease. Thank you, Sir appreciate your time. So thank you very, very much. Thank you. Everyone for tune into the show. Thank you Bernie.
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Transcript generated on 2019-09-13.