Paul Stamets is a mycologist, author and advocate of bioremediation and medicinal fungi. Check out
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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incredibly fascinating. Please give it up for Paul standards. The Joe Rogan experience hello, Paul all right, sir. Very well, then you have new fangled mushroom hat these are, surprisingly durable. The thing about mushroom hats there that you would think? Oh, it's going to fall apart in your fingers, but no it's got like it's quite pliable, very pliable and it's known as German felt and this uh well, the Iceman Otzi to be able to travel into the Alps. It was a fire starter. Mushroom really and this Rackley revolutionize warfare, because it helped finance, spark guns, ignite the gunpowder Ellen, so on do and it comes from a birch polypore mushroom, which is a subject of much of our research. These days now, when This grows in the wild of what is it look like 'cause? This is you've fashioned it in
his hat was. I had so it looks like yeah some. Ladies in Transylvania, yeah it's called phonemes for materials it allowed for the portability of fire. No doubt we all came from Africa went north and we discovered winter this loud for fire to be cared for days, and so your clan was absolutely dependent on fire. Starting to survive the winter and this mushroom allowed and enable people to survive wow. It's very light. This is edible excellent question. Hippocrates first described in in four hundred BCE um as a treat as an anti inflammatory. So aunties, yes, but you know that's very, very tough, put it in action, water, I d into Mycelium and so some ladies in Transylvania, still make these and as a fabric that you or not mushroom. There will become one hat or maybe more
it just keeps on the and it's made of my psyllium so explain the price. How would you take this slab of mushroom that I have? It looks like a sort of like an enormous Hershey's kiss, and then you would put that in water with ash from a fire from a fire. That when I ask what is his highly alkaline and then Oops of separated begins to delaminate and literally current pulling us and it's a fabric that you keep on felting and so it's called German Felton is been used for literally thousands of years and be keep. Actually uses for smoking hives if we could, but it it be kind of of, would be kind of bizarre. We could that flick, a Abic and you burn up. One of these things is here is just amazing how much this is a few. And one spark on this, you know: can ignite the center. Nothing over one thousand five hundred and twenty minutes really yeah
so beekeepers use it for a smoke. I live this right now with this line are not that the the the the powder was so you this the ash, the outer dash and then in the water and then how does flatten out and become with that because it soaks up and my selling a makes mushrooms motions make my silly, and so when you see look this and then it gets soggy and then tenderize tenderizes, and then you start breaking it, I'm pulling it apart, well actually probably first discovered, because our ancestors notice, when insects were born, this mushroom is that the unprocessed version of it? This is so. This is what it's like on one side. Well, we just made it into a little table table thing, but it's the same thing. Basically, so stitch together how to make it like this. Actually is this using what I wood glue: but it's all the natural colours. Nothing has been added to it and uh so they just pull apart, pull it apart.
Yeah. I really want to make a coat. That's my goal is to have somebody make a code but Terry Zoli, amazingly strong, tencel fabric as it absorbs water, but you have to be careful, someone smoking a joint or narrow fire smoking a cigarette happened to me, I got a big hole in one of mine and I was smelling the smoke in my head. My head was on fire more than once how many folks are out there wearing mushroom hats these days, and I just a few one hundred and we've been trying to actually keep the industry alive by Justin and dating the there was a twenty five or thirty of these hat makers. In Transylvania and ten fifteen years ago, then it shrunk down to four or five and a friend of mine David someone visited and said Paul this, this hat making techno? she's on the verge of extinction, and so we just sort of and then with orders in order to build the industry or keep it alive. So how could someone
Contribute to that if they wanted to have people that are listening to this, how could they buy one of these hats? Well, if you go to my Facebook com, Paul Stamets uhm. I think his name is Mako. Actually you know squatted on my page to sell the and more power to him so cool interesting, this had this mushroom has figuring they'd, be very prominently important saving bees and that's our research has been astonishingly interesting lately, and where is that thing that you have brought in that this is this. Is I Aisha, so to get some text. You know, I think some of the quickly mushrooms plants. Animals become important because of a plurality of multiplicity of benefits. This is one example: not only revolutionized warfare not only allowed for the portability
fire for us to save ourselves from the coldness and we migrated into Europe from Africa not only to be gives users for smoking. But fly fishermen use it also were drawing flies, but we have on that this martian was, is extremely powerful for reducing viruses that harm bees we are ride today and CNN. A insect apocalypse. Forty percent of b of insects are under threat. This just came out and this is ultimately all hands on deck moment, but I'm optimistic 'cause. I think find solutions in nature. So with my colleagues and then I was here before I talk to my work with a bow shield about defense program, and these would conchs are very strong and anti viral properties against flu viruses and Herpes, etc. Use these ideas and actually had a waking dream, and I realize that the
These were being infected by mites with viruses, and the deformed wing virus in particular, is the worst virus and so contacted washing state University. We started doing some research and I'm really really happy because I love skeptics, who become my supporters. We published in nature only seven percent of the articles submitted the nature and get published in nature publication ecosystem to this day, our articles in the top one percent of all articles ever published in nature, publication icos now this phenomenal, because it's the most credible scientific journal in the world. That is right that extracts the polypore much. Through my Celia reduced viruses and honey bees and the this mushroom, the amadeu reduces the deformed wing virus eight hundred times the one with one treatment inch and then the Gracie mushroom mycelium reduce is the
thanks. I know virus more than forty five thousand to one now. These are woodcocks are growing trees and we all grew up with Winnie the Pooh. But no one made the connection before me, apparently that bees are attracted to rotted wood because of the main lodge benefit. So on do and racially mushrooms, we found that we published in this article that high significance- and I think that this, article is not top. One percent of all nature articles is that I've been able to present the SIRI. It was proof now that a natural product can have a broader bioshield. A benefits benefits a appear form, look up to this time, there's been no agents to reduce viruses and bees. Now the deformed wing virus is being vectored by Verola Mite came in nineteen eighty four and injects viruses and the bees, and so it's like a dirty syringe and these viruses debilitate the bees and shorten their with their ability to fly and look at that poor bumblebee. Oh wow, that's crazy!
I mean that I, if that is so sad because a mobile be can't fly now, bees can up to a thousand flowers a day and the average flight time. Like honey, bees was used to be nine days, a thousand flowers a day. Every almond you eat was visited by a bee, so one beacon pollinated, a thousand flowers a day, nine days was our pollination flight time. Now it's been re shortened to four days, so we lost by fifty percent in as CNN article that I do we just showed in China now their hand, pollinating flowers, paintbrushes paint of apples to apples. Series, Allman Strawberry, cousin, Malacca bees, in the absence of be so it's really. It's it's all hands on deck. This is, you know, I'm really optimistic, future because we have solutions in nature that we can now amplify and be able to deploy so one of my inventions and I'm giving these away the
thousand of these for free I've come up with a, citizen scientists, Beefeater, that puts these rocks. Into sugar water, and we have a sign up sheet this is for freezes, dot, com, Bees M when a giveaway, first. Ten thousand of these- and this basically allows citizen scientists to help wild bees, because I'll, be working. Eighty percent of the benefits, if you scroll down, there's a really. We just got the cgi done. If you go way down and then click on the click on that video and we just um so here's the feeder. This is available on Youtube. Folks, it says, be mushroomed feeder, be mushroomed, all one word and then feed her yeah
watch. That's the bees visiting and they're taking the this wasn't sure water. How much they're sucking out of a little greedy- and that was like crazy, goes away so quickly, and this is a maze and bees are better at navigating mazes, and so you can see the b is going in and out. My grandson was afraid of. Bees was really fascinated by the side. I got a to do this, and so these, Our is something we're going to make these available all over, and I know I'm trade for gardens an apartment buildings. It could be twenty five thousand two hundred feet, you ladders, an ecological ladders and then This is why the citizen scientists all of the world can take action to be able to help bees from collapsing, and then ustation these in neighborhoods for bumble bees for other. The, and then we have it with a wifi enabled device was our panels and then we upload into the cloud all this data about bee pollination.
So we can create a metric on the baseline, be pollination services. So if you see a bees, declining in suddenly below a baseline and Oklahoma. Two years ago, eighty four percent of the bee hives died. I think, if you're a cattle, rancher and lost eighty four percent of cattle, so the idea is to help bees immune system and the great baseline lines with beefeaters upload the data, and this becomes a new form of internet because they have WI fi ability. So it says tributed network as well. But where is the WI fi on that? Well, we don't have. This is in development right now, we're working with a very, very large computer company, whose at making all the instrumentation and they're in the big data So we have a solar panel going in here. We have blue, the lights good. Bees are attracted to blue light, count. The number of views going in and out instead of these are only flying out of date We don't need a battery
and so the solar power will then upload the data into the cloud. No great mega data sets and then we can look in Africa, Indonesia, how's it going to upload into the cloud. Was it using? Is it used to Lt Lte? Also using like a cellular cellular system or low the long range communication systems whimsically help we can there's a way that this podcast can help a lot. I want to enable people with solutions that they can teach their children the importance of natural systems and they can take action. This seems like a great one. I mean I love this idea. I think it's awesome I could afford to give away. Ten thousand I talked to this compute company that everybody knows about it, maybe not the username, and there are some do we need, I said about ten billion billion billion because this, but I will do up to my capacity and then I'm hoping that you know we're going
give these away for free and then eventually will create networks of hubs where I have now. The patents on this uhm and helping bees survive from these extracts, but not in Indonesia, not India, not in Africa, not in China, not in Japan I have open source that for most of the world, I'm basically commercial, to commercialize it, so the house can help the have nots in and out. I think a lot of people want to help in view and we're thinking about different ways of doing this, I'm open to ideas, but the idea is to get maybe one person to sponsor ten other people. They have a distributed network, their own social media community. Where they end up we getting school. We won't open source. The code for 3d printers are so that's really important for schools. The codes on the open source, but then, if somebody want to make millions of these and sell them? Of course, you know I wouldn't be happy with that. They have to work with me, but individually empower individuals with,
schools to have the open source 3d printing codes, We just have to make it trendy to have one is in your house like look, I'm helping, I'm helping the bees is that it would really make a big difference. I know it's a a gross way to look at it, but but my ground work my grandson, CHI is a perfect example. He was shuddering and fear. Bing coming near to this, and I'm just my friend Doctor Steve Shepherd entomologist taught me something about these. I didn't know these are moving so fast an we look like we're, moving, slow but if we you move, really slow, the bees think you're a statue. The idea of and of my grandson and a kite said, look at this and you could see underneath you, you can see the bees going in and out, I said to move really slow, and then I got fascinated watching the bees say overcame is fear bees. He was excited that he's helping me survive now. We've created some intergenerationally and saving the.
This is a number wouldn't one bridge concept between conservatives and liberals. Everyone wants of the v. So that's number one to number one bridge issue I mean of mending the fence so to speak, cross of the political and social divide. Everybody must So this is something that's an actual solution and the you know the scientist get out, there is pretty disturbing. You know seventy five percent of flying insects in the past Twenty seven years and report from Germany that just came out have disappeared now many in your listeners or out in the country. You know I grew up in the country and member of the bug splatter used to have against your windshield, and you don't see that anymore, because the insects are dying because exposure to pesticides mono, culture. We have mono culture. You have what's called pollination deserts when have lots of biodiversity
plants and and diversity the plants are pointing at different times of the season. When you do to a monoculture, all the plants like almonds, yeah all produce flowers all at once, and then there's no pollen available. So the immune system of the bees due to the fact free farming loss of habitat deforestation. By face you know heavy metals pollution. All those things are co factors, but the nail in the coffin is by far these viruses and so even logically, empowering and supporting the immune system of bees then gives the bees the opportunity of the ability to be able to survive longer do more pollination. Is there a specific, viruses that they can isolate- or at least a new thing actually there's a there's, a slide that the shows the pandemic spread of These viruses throughout the world that came from Asia, and is now a global pandemic, all
in the world around factor with these viruses, because when they infected honey Bee, for instance, visit the flower, it leaves viral particles and the flower, and then a wild bumblebee comes and visit. It becomes in fact So there is a an unfortunate I'm lease or perfect marmoset terrible storm of co factors and because I know eighty percent of the benefit the farmers receive is from wild bees right. We can't count them. You know I have. Beehives and and what happened to call the club she got on Monday. The bees are happy. You got on Thursday, they're all gone amiss israeli task work that quick. It is not my There's hundreds of dead bees around your beehive they're just gone. They could be hundreds of pounds of honey and the bees they were gone so they go off somewhere to die. What happened because the newly hatched bees are called nurse bees and the nurse bees take care of the baby
but when the call me senses of none of pollen and food to support the brood and the colony, the nurse bees are prematurely recruited to go out and find pollen, so the abandoned the babies and then the role mites are on their disco on on controlled and they start injecting viruses. And so there are there co factors just like. When you get an infection from a viral infection, you get bacterial infections, and so there's a there's, a cascade of opportunistic infections, as they mean a lot in immunology is decreased because these Wasn't there a contributing factor that had to do with cell phones as well? I actually I'm really glad you brought that up? This is a contributing factor. I have not seen convincing evidence as a hypothesis. That's not fully flushed out. There are some people quite adamant and their belief in this
but I'm I'm driven by science and data, I can. The the rhythms of the frequency of the high of cell phones is and argue this made us. It is not in the same cosine wave of the wavelengths that we experience in nature, and so this is just I understand that I'm still on the fence, I'd like to see really strong data and scientific evidence of that. But it's a high pop, the system needs to be tested That's what we're looking also at a at a low frequency, long range communication systems. I you know, I think I told you this story. If I didn't I apologize for the when we were on fear factor, we had a beast on. We had a car these people in bees and a local bee colonies flew in to check now what was going on and those bees and the bees that were brought there in the sky and worked it out and the beekeeper told us, okay
to shut down and everybody's gotta back out of here. So we had a down everything in back out for like about an hour at least one slash two hour, while these bees communicated with each other so they fly. And a giant swarm of 'em flying in the eye in the in the air trying to you're out why he would you guys here, for what are you doing? Why you in our neighborhood, like oh we're, not moving in or just filling a tv show like they had to work it out? That is so It was really weird as an extraordinary yeah, so when I queen split from hive in on the the colony. They then take a big group of them with them. So it's all about protecting I just don't understand how they worked it out. There was no fight to the death nothing they just sort of worked it out? The other bees took off and the bees that were there came back to their hide their little colony? Yes, six there's a lot of them. This is also well that's my guide. You mention that because there's also speaks to what's called beach, rough
and so, when we publish article in nature scientific reports, actually I think the data is understated, because ten to up to twenty percent of bees will drift from one calling you to another. So we had treatment colonies and we are treated colonies well because Twenty percent of the bees in the treated colonies went to the control colonies. We actually diluted the differential because we across you know movement control, bees in and hive versus treated bees, and so when we actually, I think, another, some of my other co since we actually have understated the data. But when you look but the p values of significance- and you know the extraordinary p- is less nine nine that, for scientists, is an extraordinarily significant data set that is clearly showing the evidence that these extracts help the immunity of bees and help them be able to
I live in and do a better job. That's awesome, that's crazy, that it's just natural musher, but it may make sense what you're saying that they built their bee hives in these rotting trees, knowing that these fun guy with their I somehow another being attracted to it. You know the I'd like the first five seconds. So I got the first pot nor ward. My ego did swell and then ten seconds later I said, are you freaking kidding we're neanderthals of nuclear weapons? How could be the first one to have discovered that babies benefit from my selenium immunologically, but there is no what's called prior art. There's no evidence and I mean think of that. We have the intelligence of nature underneath our feet, and this is something we need to tap into and the fact that we can show not for product you know if you had HPV Hiv and you went to a doctor twelve days after having one treatment of these extracts and your viruses dropped forty five thousand to one any physician would say wow you're doing really well
and this would be able to see the now we've been trying to find what's called a mode of action. How are these viruses actually being reduced? Putatively are strong as strongest hypothesis. Now is as providing essential nutrients that are important for the immune system to activate gene sequences than our that attack the viruses and give a more host events of immunity of protection of a further infection. Now does this work with humans as well like Chogha? supposed to be good for you immune system right well, it says this is a great convergence, so traditional chinese medicine and european Medison Medison from indigenous peoples all over the world have been using these mushrooms is that now we're running scientific evidence that folkloric Lee the reputation of chaga of ratio Are these mushrooms helping the immunity of humans? This is translation. Medicine so by bees. Is animal clinical study These have been stated as being besides size, the for
most will study animal in the world, this is a animal clinical study. Past digestion pass was called the cytochrome p four for the pathway, which is your detoxification pathway, mostly in our liver. All animals use this article before he pathway to break down toxins and is not the microbiome into the blood. So this is actually this is a animal clinical study and I think it's a great way for us to take the this as credible evidence that natural products could be more useful and offer a broader Bioshield benefits That's the impure pharmaceuticals that go out for one molecule with one target. One sort of receptors in the are in logical fields of developing the complexity of nature. This is what our foods are. This is we are in constant by electric unification of the ecosystem. We ate we've involve this complex,
a molecular environment, and so our immune systems are up regulated through multiple stimuli and that's why I think these extracts mix of their complexity. They build upon the complexity of natural systems that help our immune system. So you have hope that this is something that we could eventually see it being like a a peer reviewed, proven thing for human beings as well. Absolutely I do I believe that's on the near event horizon there's a lot of search is now closer right. I believe it's on the near event. Horizon is something that we're going to see more more there's lots of clinical studies for physician, This is not know, branding no sound like everything I populate website called mushroom references dot com. I populate specifically for position. Positions are just spoken, Singularity University, Stanford, medical school in front of one thousand physicians. I try to make the bridge of the ability of the science for physician you are just not educated yet cuz, they don't have the resources or the time. So
references dot com. You can go that website. Its got. Hundreds references that then you can put in any. You know symptom or species, etc and you'll be able to find the peer reviewed references. There's about thirty is for on Psilocybin right now. We, This is an area of research that I'm particularly focused on now there was for a long time, a stigma associated with anything that had anything to do with mushrooms, particularly because of psychedelic mushrooms. Is that is that alleviated. I know the John Hopkins Study on Psilocybin, as shown some pretty incredible benefit and there's a lot of people now they're starting to look to it for treatment for people with PTSD, be or addiction. Issues has that become more mainstream in. In your experience, it's there's a vast title. Change in medical science there's a slide. These are just a few
the university right now that I've been approved by the FDA. And other agencies for human clinical studies on Psilocybin wow. So we look at Harvard Stanford, Purdue pen, Toronto university of Toronto- that's amazing! So only a few of them. I actually could put apartment veterans affairs. That's very interesting as well right. If I could twenty more, but you couldn't read them because I had to be able to just the bill. So this is. This is a huge shift in the the clinical stories are coming out for, as you know, PTSD in particular has been extremely useful. One of 'em that came out Johns Hopkins for breaking tobacco addiction. Fifteen page, and small clinical studies statistically significant, ten out of fifteen people after one or two who wrote: this is a soul. Simon twelve months later had not smoked a cigarette mile. It is so I mean to be Tobacco addiction was remiss addictive. Substances on this planet is phenomenal. That's a grand,
in the other research for PTSD depression, armed really excited about cognition creativity. I think we can there's a lot of smart people out there a lot of smart people. Listening to your podcast, I think the Did you have Micro dosing, an and being able to increase our ability of cognition and creativity to come up the solutions that I can get it out? Get US modest mouse. Just think of that we had hundreds of millions of people thinking about solutions like I've come up with the of some of the environmental challenges we have today for food, Bio Security So this is a threat to our national security, just think about through our economy, so this micro dosing I think, has enormous potential as well and when you think about uhm the one of the issues I see right now with a clinical studies is like almost is too good to be true or the
significant great universities, great science, published in peer reviewed journals at the top of their game, but they Actions have so many benefits for fighting dementia, potentially Alzheimer's. Johns Hopkins has an Alzheimer clinical study ongoing currently for, a does this also I've been to see if it helps free Alzheimer's patients and not go into full blown Alzheimer's there's so many different benefits. Potentially it's almost like a chaos of data. How some too good to be true! So my my my and and PAM M D from British Columbia with a working with people and we have launch today at an app that said, Michael does dot me want Andre Entendre start meeting is available on the apple store it's available on Droid, and this is a quick little movement, dosing study apple
this on the app store. Yep, that's a big shift Anesa. Is this a schedule one drug that they're talking about taking on? microdose levels I mean I'm yeah, I'm just saying what it is right mean: obviously see know what camp bomb and I want everybody to do it, but this is really significant. Is the measures uh your ability to hear vision that app test you know and how quickly you can tap your fingers. It weather stacking it with, but is also good for non. A psychoactive substance use what is your baseline, so you're getting older, I'm getting older I'm getting younger, do have a new thing. I looked for you. I figured it out, but ideas create baselines in and then you create a baseline over times, and I know how far you deteriorated or what your trend line us versus general population so
is the idea with with Microsoft, DOT Maine is that will create a massive data set This is amount of data and then will offer the conditions for them to see signal from the noise. I suspect, hypothetically, I don't have the evidence, but more doctors have collected case. Studies of Tinitus or Tinnitus, though with pronunciations are correct of the buzzing in your ears and being able and people resolve, resolved, that from doing micro, dosing Thirty percent of Americans have hearing loss or more this progressive overtime. How much hearing loss leads to depression, because you can't hear your loved one say things you get arguments, and I didn't hear you and you didn't say that I mean it's just amplifies out, so the ability able to have better cognition There are logical development and helping hearing vision depressione. If
the interesting thing about the market does in that we've been collecting? Is a people tend to be happier and they're happier more creative and with a more creative for help? Here he learning and New Cada. You are excited the next Yeah, you nailed it you're up and going to do it again. You writing a new book you're doing an artist work, so creativity happiness, happiness, breeds creativity and then the opposite is true. Malaysian depression you're not as creative. You're you're, not enjoying life, not looking forward to the next day. So I think it's is a binary choice and the idea of using Michael does and the this is a is as sort of a variable interpretations, so the views. The Salah Sabi Cubensis scale, which is the most common source mushroom in the world. One gram is left off.
Five grams is what parents would say was the hero's journey. Then, when I, and last I did with you. I did twenty grams. You know that was a little bit much you might say, but We one tenth of a one gram. You don't feel it 120th for sure you don't feel it so the idea is you do MIKE window below the intoxication, but then it benefits neurogenesis now, there's an extraordinarily interesting study that came out with the mice but I think it's translational medison and they were doing micro, dosing versus MAC, reducing so at the some numbers, but basically one gram is almost equivalent to one milligram per kilogram of body weight kilos is one hundred and fifty two pounds
and so at one milligram per kilogram. Of with these mice. That's like one gram, Cubensis, that's that's dose. Super high dose was done. So what they did with his mice as they had them, an arena with a metal floor and they give a tone poem than forty seconds later? They were shocked so when they had the tone again, a few minutes later, forty seconds later, they got shocked after ten rotations. That mice realized, like Pavlov's dog, when there's a tone. There could be a negative consequences. Shock happening said mice would cower in fear. So then they no system, with a microdose one milligrams per kilogram versus one milligram per kilogram, 110th of a dose versus a full dose.
Interestingly, the full dose it took ten rotations of no shock the tone, no shock before the they forgot or became re acclimated not to have the fear conditioned response with the Micra. Does one tenth of that and I took to Rotations two rotations with a marker does, and they dissociated potentially ptsd. Why do you think it's a loss? What well? I really good question in the evidence we have so far and again this is very early evidence. Lots of research is going on this. It looks like orogenic benefits of micro dosing are greater than orogenic benefits of microdosing. You leave love the receptors are having this incredible trip is fantastic as colorful. It's life, changing. Yes, that is all beneficial for changing your life, but. Going Michael does over the long term, because the nerves don't regrow and six hours, but over we
pics of regeneration of nerves with Micro, dosing It seems to me that the market sings and set Being an overwhelming all the receptors are feeding these receptors that allowing for neurogenesis now this is again a hypothesis there's so many great people studying this right now, but I'm advocating to all of the Clint clinicians at Johns Hopkins at Stanford UCLA at Harvard. Please do Sting of the patience for hearing and vision and other behavioral test. That are not just about emotion and mood and PTSD, but let's actually get some physical measurements So then you can track prior. Do during his two to complicate assist to into much intervention your trip, your brains out. You don't have time to to be tested. You know for vision audited, but then post wise and then looking out at the at the residual for
now Doctor James Fadiman, he has the Fadiman Protocol. I am my protocol. The stems photo protocol James Saddam, protocol was micro, dosing one day on or two days off one days on my recall that I'm suggesting is four days on three days off and and in our good friends we talk about this. We laugh, but we're were just basically. These are hypothetical potential treatments, the Unpairing data between the two of you. This is what a microdose uh, not Maine, will do We wanted say: are you following that stems protocol the vitamin Procol own protocol or using with niacin what you doing it with lions mane. What are you using within lions, mane? It's phenomenally powerful neurogenic Lee and with those two clinical studies out of Japan with mild cognitive decline and dementia, showing very positive results, taken four
two to four grams lines main per day, the mycelium as interesting, not the bite. My psyllium is much more powerful than we just have been contacting with the new, logical testing laboratory in France there we got some amazing results back showing that and we had lions Mane extra. So the mycelium exposed to neurons and they the composite control, was a brain derived nerve growth factor. Nor factor- and it was s, uses a baseline for measuring neurogenic compounds comparatively. And then narrow, benefits from as well for potent cells, stem cells that then differentiate and the neurons and the Bd clear he shows, are the standard protocol with uh its main. It also increase the number of neurons, then I started looking at analogs of psilocybin,
the analog when we added the client's main mycelium with this also have an analog trigger perfectly legal, the not schedule once up Psilocybin analogues and not what what is it exactly Psilocybin analog A number of them that have been reported in the literature, there's baeocystin an norbu, Justin are two of the more prominent ones. Now I I'm a psychonaut and one thousand nine hundred and sixty bear system, but. A report of a child died out. Kelso Washington from eating. As yard the family and just add the mushrooms. They went to the hospital, the child Alta fever, eventually had renal failure and died. I like chemist by the name of long and then Benedict in Tyler up this. They analyze the mushrooms. Looking for a new toxin, the motion
These are identified as being solossa. Bebeo Cistus there's a mushroom that grows in Washington, state and Oregon, sometimes in British Columbia, but not more than California is very rare species, but grows in yards when they analyzed the mushroom looking for a new potential toxins they found. This alkaloid is the dimethyltryptamine based compound and they named it biosystem after slow. To be so. Biosystem had the reputation of potentially being a deadly poisonous toxin is in Cubensis is present and many saw mushrooms in my books, How much of the world has charts that show how much data systems in these things, but one it consumed by a system, because this reputation best systems legal we obtain some pure bio system from a laboratory. Legally, I have no soul. Saban, you know, nature provides, I don't people make this very clear but I can have. I can because he's also cells have analogs and so
since there is no reports in the scientific literature or whether this was truly toxic RON. I, with my whether doctor friend of mine, MD, the measure my vitals and hook me up. You know the blood pressure yeah ecg, that all the bio metrics that are needed, and so we did end of one study. I decided that, even though it had a history of potentially of killing this child, I think that's a false positive. I think it was bad science. I couldn't, no one who ever ingested this, so I decided I would and just now my friend PAM no she's AMD. That goes into the. Article she's, the only doctor on a research vessel, and so she goes down there and she gets to bring a roommate. That was mean so PAM and I were working really hard. We had all of our plane tickets were ready to go to an Artica. We've been planning this for months
and then then that would just I would just before we go Paul this to the the Bell system test. You know we talk about this for months. We finally got the the time to do this. But the next day we're going to an article so pan look. Cell phone this, this russian research vessel, crashed into a reef, tore a hole in it, and it's like this now the trip is canceled out. I mean I have American, Express, plane, tickets, hotels. I got twenty four hours to try to recapture all this money because I can't we can't go. The trips are in cancelled side super high anxiety. I told him about my doctor friend I I I two listings idea. I can't go. This is too crazy and then she can look to make on this and we've been planning this for months him please and- and I listen to our at and so I did ten milligrams of their system. She measured my heartbeat blood pressure. Although this is all the
metrics my eyes did dialate. She said that was good since I was a drug like effect, and then she checked in with me every one thousand and fifteen twenty minutes, you have left off one hour or full blown into it and she talked with Maine. She talked with Maine, but yes, an I wouldn't get high. Now, I'm not alone, she goes. How do you feel- and I said I feel great- I have no anxiety everything. This trip is going to be fine, so here we found an analog of Psilocybin. That does not get you high, that's legal. That reduced anxiety, I think, is the tip of the proverbial iceberg, because all the clinical studies approved right now for sure Psilocybin. What about the analogs? They activate the receptor sites in in your field and and and and you know, Martin logical field, and that's why I think this is why I'm looking at
the natural form of these mushrooms standardized to a soul, Simon, a certain concentration versus the pure molecule. I think that is the way of the future, because pure sells Ivan is up to six seven thousand dollars a gram uh, and you can translate that. And the growing cells have mushrooms for two dollars a gram. Now there are people, a listening, saying. Well, the prices coming down. Indeed, this is may down maybe to a thousand five hundred dollars a gram, but how many people in the urban low, lower income? You know impoverished population suffering from PTSD who don't can't afford to go to Johns Hopkins to spend thousands of dollars to have a clinical treatment. I think this democratizes, the use of Psilocybin and micro dosing that could be a benefit across our society and then why proposing? Is you stack it with niacin and the reason why you start with niacin? Is you take 110th
Gram of seismic events, this microdose, you had a hundred to two. Milligrams of niacin now if someone tries to get high by taking ten times much to have like two grams of niacin. Flushing niacin, vitamin B3 not flushing. Niacin will give you such an irritable reaction of skin itching and people have taken vitamin b3. They know this, so it becomes the antabuse for micro dosing, but moreover, it excites the nerves at the end of the peripheral nervous system and neuropathy is often sent themselves a deadening, ending of the nerves of the fingertips and toes, and it's also dilator to this three attributes of stocking niacin, whistles, I mushrooms, that prevents abuse becomes an abuse. It dilates the blood vessels to deliver the neurogenic benefits of Psilocybin to the end points of the other peripheral nervous system and the central nervous system and
it then and also excites the nerve ending. So I think those three reasons this could, I hope, to see the silicide side motion coming over the counter vitamins approved by the FDA, with niacin that allows for the universality of use for the benefit of our culture. What we were talking last time, How can I possibly everything? Is there any other evidence of people taking these analogs and having this anti anxiety effect other than you? I mean this seems very small sample size or is just one person. Yes, there are as the anti depressant as far as anxiety and and and depression are inter related. There are our reports, James Vitamin and his studies- he is population study was, admittedly small, did not see an anti exit, anxiety component, but other clinical studies at Johns Hopkins, also the anxiety of dying the cancer, but that was actually so side. That was actually so sad. But what I'm saying with you is,
also, you had a very profoundly stressful situation happening, something the prepared for a long time. Then all sudden was gone and all this money's gone to gotta try to figure out how to get it back like its immediate right. Maybe with other people. They didn't have such an immediate anxiety moment, and maybe there Anxiety will was harder to measure whether it's coming or going. Well, I is anyone study this needs. This is just how this me now. The other one with the other people that have experienced it but did experience. Any anti anxiety, there's no one else that we know in the scientific literature your hand guards mentions he. I publish philosophy as Russians with them the most potent cels. I much of the world your guards says, and one thing that asked, and he said that the Bell system was I don't have confidence statement. I can
the best system, I was ready for liftoff, I was hoping for left off. I know but liftoff feels like mine and I didn't get it so so this is. This is What happens in science, so much is, scientist. When you can't do a clinical study, we bioassay this is very common. This is, however, hope mind. You know discovered in a LST he by asset at so you need to accidentally, though, and it accidentally got in the one for this famous bike ride. But then he did it purposely after that, but this is what our scientific cycle must do sometimes Yes, I just opened a famous for it. The most famous of all and the the most revered and he bioassay based on his knowledge of chemistry. He wasn't going to try to commit suicide So this is really an area that I think has enormous value and a several meta studies have come out. Uh
that I'd mentioned before is a population of several hundred hundred thousand prisoners, and there was a eighteen percent rid in violent crime and uh two percent, or so reduction and larceny and theft in a population. And where they reported, they had one psilocybin mushroom experience, um statistically significant now association may not be causation, but can be, but a more recent study from the British Columbia. What I find to be with so fascinating is that they did a large population sat in a partner to partner violence. If your male partner. And then one psilocybin trip justice to statistically significant reduction of the probability of that partner being violent towards their other partner. Statistically
so I was not at there's a dating out. Maybe should have the dating up. Have you trip until seven? Yes, welcome that may be of a better. You know candidates for for dating So I think Psilocybin makes nicer people and I think we did a lot more nicer people that are more creative. There are dedicated to helping the community, and I think this is a a potential paradigm shifting a drug unquestionably and here's the other thing. This could be profit me companies that are seeking to profit off of pharmaceutical drugs. You can profit off this stuff, with particular but the protocol that you just described with adding nice into it to ensure that or doing only microdosing look man. This could be a very. Little enterprise for some company and the benefits, if, if people can here are the benefits that you had of this alleviation of anxiety, my God, that's like most of what people
struggle with so many people out there. Listening to this right now, like fuck, I wish there was something that didn't get me high, but just alleviated this fucking angst that so many people are struggling with every day, I'd, say: massive Disease complexes swept our society, yeah and and and face Getting all these problems. How could you not become depressed? Well, you cannot become depressed by becoming creative I think, that's also Ivan and Micro Dosing enables the creative pathway for ingenuity for us to feel the we're We can make a meaningful difference. S really important you know, we've entered into 6x the sixth greatest extinction event known in the history of life on this planet we've had two other action. Events from asteroid impacts two hundred and fifty million years ago, sixty five million years ago, but we're in now involved in a massive extinction event The research that came out today and the
the resources, come out with seventy five percent of the insect population, forty percent in immediate jeopardy. The research article came out in Europe and North America They have good data collection, Amazon, they don't so we we, You measure the insect loss in the Amazon, but if you're a trout, if your bird, if you like drinking coffee, and like chocolate thing like almonds, I mean these are all depend upon pollinators, so we lose these flying insects with these the politicians, services and it threatens worldwide food, Bio security. This is one of the biggest threat store ecosystem. Now I think we can invent our ways out of this. If we create expand our ability to come up with novel solutions, and I think the solutions are literally underfoot
and all around us today we just have to wake up like I woke up to helping the bees yeah there's so many smart people out there if they just started realizing that nature is a deep well of evolutionary knowledge and that we have evolved within this complexity. Then to delve into that library of knowledge and pulling out a political solutions that by science, controlled studies, but not looking at these. Masuda pure molecules as the way of the future, but looking at the upon the complexity of the microbiome the complex lation ships and selecting out biomes that then quit Gil of solutions that are applicable to the problems that we face today. Alright right, I like that idea, all of it. It's just say it's! It's beautiful that there are these natural solutions that Maybe if we could just shift people's idea,
about how we view Psilocybin, how we view the analogs, how we view the interaction with people in nature that you can you know we can make it real change make a change. That's ten people inside of our lifetime and again selling this stuff like if but you were seeing what's happening right now with medical marijuana and then shifting to commercial marijuana and now hemp. It's giant I mean that's a huge industry through its change. Colorado, Colorado, Denver's Realestate's gone through the roof, people are moving there so much that they've got traffic problems. Now they never conceived of in the past it's chain. Their economy and its chain work on. We do too just a really obvious shift: here's the ship Marijuana is not bad for you. It's not I thought it was it's not we're sorry, you could have it now now you can sell it and now it's legal, but federally we're still dealing with schedule one. So it's it's there ship. Apps are happening these companies
investing money. There's a lot of profit to be made in a lot of people are profiting, but it's still and as weird transitionary stage it is. But this is a peoples revolution. You have decriminalized and nature, coming out of Oakland, which I'm fully in favor of how dare a species illegal at that makes no sense to me what what is Oakland specifically, they they've made I Wasco Psilocybin. What else all natural March was psychoactive properties to the best of my understanding, the both Denver and Oakland. They remove the funding of the for a for prosecutors and judges in the court. So you can't use public funds in order to prosecute people, for possession, so this is a very arrest them for it though. Well you, the law enforcement officers not getting paid he's not doing his job is violating his code of conduct issued arrest him and you take him to a prosecutor project goes. I have no funding for this your waist You're just I'm coming here is wasting my time. I have a that's assault with a someone selling. It
decriminalization does not. It's doesn't prevent you from being prosecuted for selling schedule. One! That's right! That's a really really good question and I have thoughts on it. That's controversial, be does this speaks to the ability of some people, having access and not. If you want I only trouble cels I once or twice a year. That's all I need is Terence Mckenna, I think I don't want to say when and when you when you get the message from the phone. Hang it up. So If you just have the souls I mushrooms growing in your backyard, or you know I collect them. Then you only need one or two doses a year and even producing. You know you could get a lot more extension of that. But my my view and I've. I've never had any longs for for in Washington, Oregon and British Columbia. Canada particular law enforcement has a very
pretty mature attitude towards us have a small amount and you're, not trafficking, and your for individual use It just doesn't raise the level of the need for No, I understand that, but I just wish there was no incentive at all. There was nothing there like this. The idea we have to rely on the good grace of a copper understands that there's no incentive to arrest you that seems a corset to Maine we're grown adults in twenty nineteen? With a mountain of evidence, this is we're not living in the dark ages anymore and the fact that it's still a possibility that you get arrested, are you face some sort of criminal charges for having something it's only been demonstrated to be good why is this citizens movement? The federal government? I mean the Republicans and conservatives and libertarians are all about state rights. This is a peoples movement. They should get behind this
because individual community rights against the the the big man against than the federal government yeah the federal government. It was the need to be at a title change and how do we do? That is because we have we have decriminalized nature. In Oregon, we have the Denver initiative. Other cities around the country is now spread. Throughout the entire country. There's probably twenty cities in the next sixteen months, they're going to have decriminalization the City Council I also think it's significant solution to this problem that we face with pills and a lot of destructive drugs. There's a lot of self destructive drugs that people taking, because because people people hurting what what cell Simon gives you that these drugs, don't it gives you a potential to heal it, gives you a moment to reflect that gives you a change in the way. Anything. Can you interface with the world and that just doesn't and knows other those drugs are escape drugs and the need to escape? we've got to eliminate and I think that's
one of the things that Psilocybin can help it can help alleviate the need to escape and uh. Shout out to Rick, Dublin and Atlanta, a good lately of maps, maps, dot, Org, the Multi disciplinary association for Psychedelic studies, maps dot, or open maps, dot ca in Canada have been instrumental and bringing forward. Secondly, drugs for PTSD in clinical studies maps is on phase three within the with MDMA on a couple times yeah. I love that guy. So yeah he's I mean he's a real pioneer in this, and so what's in interesting in getting now I from three different groups, I've heard who sat down with FD the scientists there's been a new turnover within the FDA, and these scientists are looking at just pure science. Without politics, they don't care about politics, they want to help people,
and several of them have said, they've never seen it with soul, sobbing, in particular a safer drug with such a dramatic impact with. So it's in frequency of use, one two times, and so there is a the that just came out called fantastic fungi and and Collins in there I'm in there Louie Schwartzberg, as put it out, he spent twelve years or working on this movie, this fantastic hundred dot com, it's a grassroots movement Theaters are selling out all over the country. They they'd at New York, city for one night. They have to keep it in for a week, because they're standing lines a standing room. You know long and to get into the theater, and it's all about the use of mushrooms and the Johns Hopkins studies with end of life patients. It's very very. Well done, but it speaks to
is that this is literally a chronicle underground movement, the swelling up and the the attraction that people have for this as a reflection of the title change that is happening now. This is a worldwide movement that is sweeping through the mycelial underground through connection, so something Encourage you to see phantom? fungi, isn't on Netflix. It's not a Netflix Louis was offered a lot of money for Netflix, but once it gets enough, looks as a library book in the library and he wanted to build community, and so he's been out and people can spot theater openings. It's got one hundred percent on rotten tomatoes. How many movies get a hundred percent on rotten tomatoes, so it is really a this movie and a spreading you know. Where can you get it? We got a fantastic hundred dot com and you can sign up for the there's a so it has to be in a theater yeah right now it will.
We eventually after this year it is going to be available on the web right now, Lewis spent a lot of money for five million dollars. I think Norman and Lynn Lear Norman Lear all in the family, in on Archie Bunker. There also the co producers of this real in now and so so Norman Lear's out there tripping allegedly hi. Connect to internet explorer the magic that lives beneath our feet. Wow, I thought Archie Bunker was one of the most lovable racist conservative, assholes, I've ever ever seen on tv, but I'm normal they do a lot more than that right. This is some really interesting, though, that they've decided to release it in film theaters and verses on the web, 'cause. If you really want to reach a lot of people, Is it selling? This way is this I mean it seems like if you spend a lot of money, the way to get that much
back would be to sell it to Netflix like that, so I would agree with you except next Amazon Netflix offered him one slash four to one slash two of the cost. And so oh ok was not. They didn't value it and they didn't see it. I mean S by Southwest, turned him down and it's got uh percent on rotten tomatoes, while people just don't see this until eight s by southwest turned them down, because it's not part, I think, of the Hollywood history Bushman south by southwest. So I can't explain myself S by southwest turn it down, or you know, or the the other festivals the will. It cetera. That's not my level of expertise, but what is happened is that these theaters are selling out days upon days use response. People have an appetite for this because it gives them hope and meaning
in a time of desperation. They see actionable solutions that cross political and cultural boundaries. They can help the commons, and I think that we are suffering in our societies from the media from the politics on the science showing the loss of habitat health. That under lots of stressors, just like the bees are. We have a multiplicity of stressors and these stressors lead the Malays, depression, disease, crime and poverty, and this is something that I think can help. Do a title change for the better. Viral is done responsibly. Now, you've mentioned companies. There's twenty at least new salsa Ivan companies have been formed in the past year, a lot of from the canadian cannabis industry. They may not ton of money, so there are several several them called me up. I've talked to two groups and both groups. When I ask them, have you done a heroic dose on Psilocybin
None of them would admit that they did the scared they had to interrupt. I asked: have you done a small dose? They said I never my silent an one group. I said folks just seemed like economic opportunists, and one of them said that's exactly what we are trying to make money so and I'll make a deal with them. Listen I need one afternoon of your time. I think, it's important to come to Jesus yeah. That's a that's a different subs. I mean, would be amazing right. Do that and say look I'll! Do this deal with you, but just give me five hours. Do you take five hours have more trip together and now go let's reevaluate this I'm with you, I'm with your brother and that's what's needed, because those of us who understand the importance of this realize that this is something that we have to carefully. Um shepherd yes for maximum benefit. An these
commercialization of these companies. I call it spore wars very soon. This can be spore wars, between all these contacts get moving. That's that's a sequel, Spor wars because in many what's exciting to me, is it dirty anymore, okay. When The first time I did mushrooms, I think, was. Very, very early 2000s, an guide, people about it. They were like what's wrong with you, you're a grown adult pay taxes. You know all my life, It's like you, you what? What kind of a fuc up? Are you your age, you're doing mushrooms, my God, grow up that's what it was like and he tell him. No, I don't think that's what it is. I think it expands your consciousness. I think connects you to higher levels of thinking- and it just makes you more in tuned with the great beyond or something mmhm something more there and you like you. Listen yourself go to work, go God. Damn get.
The morning, have a cup of coffee and go to work. But now it's more slowly, but surely dirtiness of even in the term micro dosing is wonderful because people know you could take a little bit. You know I believe MIKE, based on this podcast for ARI nights to a couple stems recently and it like This is probably a little more than microdose. It was a pretty. We were deaf. Noticeably high below like an hour in and like ' hour and a half Inigo. I forgot we took mushrooms and like. Why am I so happy with feeling like. I want people to experience that feeling, because it's a it's really. Really clean feeling, and I, after mushrooms, I feel younger yeah. I go to this TED conferences every year or so later I feel like. I was treated like a leper. You know and I went to TED. You know and the or whatever so afraid that I'm talking about psychedelic mushrooms how many years ago was this. The two thousand and eight when I first went, would select. Now, though, there's right this last time I may I was
like a super celebrity by these hugely hugely powerful people. With some of the names you probably know who came up to Maine and which my shoulders going now. That down boy? They did they walk into something their mates, their friends. Their business associate's. You know there seemed at the common theme is wow. He was such a jerk before and he's so nice now yeah the seeking cooperation and they still are productive there. Still, their creative. There are banging it out. The coders and looking valley know that Microdosing coding ability. So it's a competitive advantage to those other computer companies that do not. You know, I think any any new business populated.
About young people who are not doing marker does in are going to be a competitive disadvantage mmhm because the creativity flow, the camaraderie. The community seeking to benefit the commons and also reward yourself. I'm not saying this is all you know just just helping helping the commons but the idea of being able to reward yourself and people rejoice and success and they benefit from it as well. It really integrates people together, yeah. It's also People need to understand that there's a lot of this squirreling away resources and money and things and trying climb that corporate ladder? This is a finite life. It Doesn't last that long, it's a trick. You get sucked into this trick in this track is what every ceo and every head of every corporation, every chief financial officer, all these people that are just trying to like improve the bottom line. Rake in more money. Keep this car
any growing and keep kicking ass? It's a trick. You sucked up in a trick. There's a natural human tendency to accumulate numbers for whatever reason go back to our early days when resources were scarce and if you get locked in that trick, one day you're going to wake up and that that's going to be usually be too late. Usually it's on your deathbed. Usually it's close to it like. What did I do this? Is it my health is failing my life's falling a and what has my life been? It's been ten fourteen hours a day in these stuffed offices under fluorescent lights, crunching numbers and trying to acquire things in and for what, like, what the impact of I made on humans. What what? What do is the negative impact of my ambition on the people that are around Maine, all. This is like the Something that Psilocybin, in particular, just psychedelics in general, can provide is a break from patterns, a stopping uh
cease fire of all, all the momentum of our culture, civilization, finances, taxes, credit card debt, all that shit just stops and you get a chance to step back and look the machine watch, it all world and spin in front of you and you get to I got sucked into the track, I'm sucked into a truck a lot of people. I've talked to right exactly what your time you're you're mentioning had they did to her turning yeah and they they look back and long. Why was I prioritizing that yeah I want to be out My children, yes, you know and looking at birds are walking eighteen in nature. Yeah nature, like I have my one of my books sell side much of the World has a great chapter in and I think called it, a good tips for great trips and one of the things I understand clinically controlled, controlled settings for clinical studies etc.
Just don't need that, but I really enjoy being on the ocean bluff or high point. And by being the mushrooms about half an hour before sunset being with a loved one, also good to have an experienced person who's, not tripping. Who is at the watcher a sitter, sitters sitter thinking, meditation practice in place. Folks give these people some space who just watching and People who are imbibing understand they have a watcher. They have somebody who's anchored. Who could help and then to have this the sun go down and and stars come out and the colors and this oceanic expanse of experience is just as nothing short of spiritual. Yeah. I agree, I think this one thing we should talk about, though there are people that have a tendency: Tord Schizophrenia, an these people,
have sometimes they have psychedelic breaks like they'll have cycle. Variances? And then they don't do well. They often these are you brought that up, and that is a deselection of from the from the clinical studies of candidates who want to engage. But my good friend Mark Hayden, who runs maps. Canada had a very interesting story with a schizophrenic and he also cautioned- and every physician I Know- is on the same. Pages, including not medical, marijuana, edible, edible marijuana. It seems to have a significant effect on people with, with Mark noted, with this one a person who is a severe schizophrenic was that he still heard voices in his head, but the voice is now we're friendly. They were they weren't, like you, know, go, kill somebody. It was like You are a good person, and so he still had voice in their head, but the tenor-
in tone and attitude of the voices were supportive, but I'm talking about is it bringing on the schizophrenic experiences that there has been evidence, particularly about marijuana, that high doses of marijuana for people that have tendencies, and we don't know right what causes someone to have schizophrenic breaks, there is a difference between pre and post right. People have, deteriorating mental health. That's correlates with schizophrenia like what what it, what to be less schizophrenic or not exhibiting any of the the the problems and then all of sudden, sudden severe problems, post, psychedelic trip or post large dough edible, marijuana and or even large dose smoking it or some people they dab and they smoke wax, and then it happens to, all that smoke too much pot? There's certain but have that tendency, I would defer to clinician
two are extremely skilled in this area and have seen many many patients, I'm not a doctor, but I concur with you. I think that is a real concern. The difference between a toxin in a drug can often times be dose and non at lower doses. You can see things at the hardest as you you don't rhyme so it's an entire spectrum. Ann is so complex and The visual Audi's of of of people are so you and uniquely different yeah. I have a friend who's, a doctor. If he smokes a joint, he can go to sleep. I smoke a joint and I'm until a cuddle, puddle man, I'm ready for that hello. You know at night, I just I use it for going to sleep yeah, I'm the opposite, yeah! I use. I start writing I want to read. I want to watch documentaries, but it's a city. Even thing too, as well: right, isn't it. Do you? Do you have a significant difference in the way your body response to Tivo's verses, indicus? I I would like to
be educated on the subject. I've used both for a very long time. I love accounting in the car hi, you have a beard, I have a beard, I love the smell. Cannabis on my letters smelling, it is my perfume right. I get it so isn't a lot of you know we're in a new realm of of pharmacology Mmhm and from Cognos sing, and this is, I think we have to navigate this carefully. The I'm with natural products and how do you standardize them to the active constituent? When you have more than one active constituent. You know how do you standardize standardized the mall entourage for symphony effect. This makes the complexity of nature but I have a phrase and I like it, don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Just because you can't understand That doesn't mean it necessarily does not have a valid outcome or can't be used, and I think that what we need to do is correct large data sets? That's
I'm hoping Micro dose not Maine, is going to give us an enormous amount of data that clinicians can harvest from and going. We didn't anticipate this and like these meta studies about partner partner violence, when your partner men had tripped on mushrooms. They were less prone to violent. That was signal from the noise how many other signals from the noise of these big big metal files that we can, we can pull out Then we can get serious scientists to do really carefully controlled clinical studies to be able to see this and then and then How do you combine them, and I mean this is a whole new landscape that gets away from sing. Molecules into the complexity of nature that we can build upon, navigating to that
is going to be a challenge. There's no doubt about it, but I think we're smart enough. Now we have enough computer technologies and diagnostic tools that we should begin on that voyage today. What do you think is responsible for that shift from TED of two thousand eight to ten of two thousand nineteen Michael Pollan's book run away, yeah Michael Poems, but was was the big bridge, and now he has forty pages on Ming and up Michael. If you're listening, buddy dude, I told him not to reveal my secret mushroom touch now Trisha journalist and Michael Pollan bless his heart. I love is a a great guy, but he said in his books, so so to speak. He says Paul told me not to tell you where my his secret mushroom patch is I can tell you that we slept in a yurt. There are three state parks along the Columbia River.
And two of them have Europe's. It is basically gave up your spot. You got my spot and it's like Okay, Michael well, do that I think the urge of a writer trying to give something to their readership. You know so into that spot get trampled. It's is run over with people. Collecting souls have mushrooms, they have big sign, everywhere they rushed people. It's a huge income source now hookups for the cops because they bust people, but it, but the Good NEWS about that, as I have gone through state parks and because there's big signs of no mushroom picking a lot for Sment's there there's lots of mushrooms there everywhere, and so I can photograph them. Well, you're not allowed to touch them, so they were. They check you on your way out. Oh there are, like bees are Hyundai service become on, they are so finding in the bushes. There are alpha male humans in the third they've got drugs grown out of the ground and the
they also charge they swarmed touch your this is. I have a lot of fun with my friend, because I got a stick and I go okay. I tell it's the mushrooms lipstick now am I actually touch the mushrooms or not because they check your pockets. They will search you yeah search. You've just randomly know if they have reason. Reason to believe they can through stuff man, you're underwear, Bro just take a big fat baggy Or swallow them quickly, but you know this is it is proposed? if they find you lying down. What was your eyes dilated. You would have to talk to them. You know I don't know if they would do a fecal sample later on or what but it approach is the absurd yeah. This is one of the law enforcement because of absurd, even the law enforcement officers. I know who have been the martial arts a lot on your life myself. As well as several schools for about thirty years
I had several law enforcement officers with students IBM, have nine ensemble. Now they did. Did you get roped into it by the system yeah they'd like like this is not something they want to do. I know a ton of cops they're, not none of them give a about so yeah, it's yeah, that's hugely, usually hugely unfortunate consequence of really ridiculous laws and the you have grown adults telling other grown adults that they can't do something that is credibly beneficial that they themselves have never experienced. They have no knowledge of it at all other than the ancient stereotypes, mushrooms being add mushrooms being for burn, some losers and hippies and all you can handle life or there are rumors- are walking hypocrites there. You know the values of the world now and I use that lawyers tormented, but they have to do this. So I found the most law. Enforcement officers are extremely reasonable as long as you show intent
you know. You have respect and respect yeah under percent, so it's never been, but you know I don't. Subscribe to the defense that someone's going for little purposes and they have hundreds of pounds of zip, lock bags with scales in the basement and doing a commercial operation you're, avoiding taxes right reducing this as a factory. You know take it on the chin. You got busted and it comes with the territory yeah eyes wide open, don't cloak it in like than the veil of spiritual out, you're trying to create a spiritual evolution unless you're a true saint, given that away yeah. Well, that would be different, but yeah I have nature provides I don't because, I don't wanna be responsible for another person's experience, so for sure, one of them a melt down and they blame Joe Rogan. Yes, a pasta. Yes, I don't. I can't control that sir
I'm stance, I don't want the responsibility, that's one of the reasons why I've hesitated on getting involved in medical marijuana or so are you. Commercial marijuana have been offered and I'm always like. I missed on things as a right, because you do you can't, especially without a she can't control people, you don't know what they're gonna do I don't. I do intervals because I am home hung areas. Well, I I was intending to Holly is attending college in nineteen. Seventy three, my dad was coming with the visit and one of my one of my the people on the floor at this dormitory. And they made some marijuana brownies, oh boy, and I had never taken he starts that way. I need to buy as I got my dad's coming and two or three hours, so what the heck- and I was so friggin stoned, I could not believe it and I can barely keep my eyes were the really I I'm trying to trying to maintain it. You know how it is you're trying to look like you're, not stoned, but here's blissed out of your gourd, and so my dad was like looking at me really. Curiously, this nineteen,
it really 1970s, and so the next day I said that I got to tell you something: I eat some marijuana brownies, because I do so I knew that I could. I can tell you, I don't know, Shut Sherlock Holmes on the floor, but it was but marijuana for that. You know he actually amused and delighted that I explained to him why I look so No, no! Well, that's great. Do you have that kind of communication? Yeah? Just before before, he but he wanted the trip on mushrooms and- and I I turned him down because he was close to the end of his life and he was very relieved.
Listen. I was concerned that would shake his reality trees so severely that he would question his entire life because he was like a death of the salesman. Figure is a tragic life that he lead in. The mushrooms could have helped him enormously, but I was a concern that he would look back and goes. I wasted my life, so that was too much of too heavy for Maine, and maybe my maybe I'm being selfish, because I was trying to protect my own feelings, but he wanted to do it. He asked me actually. He said I want to sell side mushrooms with you and he wouldn't smoke pot. Do you have regrets about that, but not doing it with him? I do I have. I have a lot of regrets about that um. So so I have met several people in the past several weeks at Stanford Medical School. At these other conferences that I go to, which there's a brain mind conference, a standard medical school in the first two sentences, they mentioned soul, seven hundred and twenty
scientists. You know, and one hundred and fifty billion dollars in a room and sell side and was immediately mentioned, and when I met some people there that are intergenerational grandparent. Parents and one thousand eight hundred and nineteen year old child all journeyed with mushrooms together an their interpersonal relationships. They told Maine, you know, there's no reason for us ever to get mad at each other. I just thought that was really powerful, wow yeah that is powerful. That sounds inconceivable to someone who's, never experienced psychedelics, but someone has to go yeah. I see how you get there. They'll make mountains out of mole hills yeah. You know you can disagree without being angry and you can be civil about it. Yes, home! Well, that's a lesson the world could use right now. I think
This is in many ways the antidote for some of the problems that we're seeing with social media. One of the problems we see with social media is this: disconnect from the human experience disconnect from communication with person to person, communication and this anger and vitriol all and look heat in this and rain hiding behind screen the absent generals. Us you know you're Joe Rogan, I'm Paul Simon yeah, who are these people on screen. Name yeah. They just- and I I two great TED talk, which I did not understand and the tough talk was fantastic talking about why trolls do the things that they do they do it because they excitement sure the idea is just to disturb the fabric and the more disturbance they got. That is a measure of their success, yes and provoke, a response, even though they're not wedded to it. To be able to cause a ripple in the pond yeah, but they don't feel significant, so they want to do something that they can get some sort of reaction. They Rock they see a window, they want to throw it it's natural inclination, but it's stupid.
But it's a waste of fucking time. You know, and some people celebrate it, I'm like ok, celebrate it not doing shyt doing shed, for you self you're not doing shift for other people, you're, not improving. Whatever your art is whatever for whatever, whatever it is that you you try to do in this life to leave your mark or to contributor to be. If you're not doing that, if you're trolling Danault roller should eat mushrooms? Yes. Well, I'm all angry people should be mushrooms and that's true. I re agree agree with that. So well, you know there is. Evidence that Lions Mane also compensates in many of these of neurogenic benefits. Since the time is an alliance member, looks for the port timing, fishes and a any good well it comes from China and is that bad every chinese expert I've met. They said I wouldn't dare by a mushroom from China, cheese and unrest. So
This is we have a spoonable of mane and I would put that in smoothies all the time and that's my go to and that's what exactly the research I put in coffee, yeah I put in coffee and Jamie. You pull up that. How much should I put it There are genesis benefits of lions mane. How much should I put in the woods? Open? It's not open yet right now, it's in there I'll, put about a teaspoon, teaspoon and stir it in with that, but the neural nets good and then Janice, not the this company in France. That we did the neurogenic test with found. The mycelium is far more active than the mushroom fruitbodies bodies, and so the Mens main stimulates neurite outgrowth and basically extends the nerves from from growing compared to base So in seven to twelve days of substantial up the twenty two percent increase in all outgrowth, what we
I was actually there's one of uh at eight percent. One was at twelve percent and then separately stocked it with an analog of Psilocybin and rather than that, think being the earth metal Earth metal additive of cumulative. We found the synergy. So we think that Lance Mane. The research has shown an is meyerland regeneration on the sheet of the nerves and this whole side and perforates nerve tip. So it should conceivably help you learn. This is so this is. Example. This is unexpected. Result is lines. My psyllium that showing a fourteen, basically fourteen point, eight percent over baseline then we have a source. I an analog that didn't do all that which analog this again. This is I'm going to describe the analog for now for obvious but it's a legal analog. It creates a seven percent outgrowth of new rides, but then we
active with lines main it and and these assault and analog, there's a fear, medical added of a fact, one fourteen plus one of seven one twenty two, but we got one thirty six sisters that specifically significant the outlaw are actually is even higher So the ignorant not merit and the neuroscientists in France and that the study was extremely excited and we found that and the more we titrated it to greater dilution, the more active it becomes. What's that mean well what country was that mean? What may be the it is our human cells, poor potent stem cells and what we found was originally. We were told us that is called three micrograms per milligram or three micrograms, a millionth of a gram, but when we went back to to up point zero three one
a hundred times less. The neurogenic benefits became greater now, there's something called the PK conversions, the the the pharmacokinetic swing you and just something only of us, a small portion of it may make it in your blood stream. So, but the Good NEWS is, is that these things are so non toxic and they're, so potent now looking at the dosing regimen, it appears so far. We've done this clinically. This is human cells in vitro, but this laboratory is predict if of neurogenic compounds, that these punk The neurogenic benefits are so substantial that the pk conversion of ingesting them can be seen in the bloodstream as a fairly good conversion right. So you you if, for instance, if you take vanilla casted when Alan two percent will make in your blood stream. So if you think of one whole gram of vanilla, only two percent actually get the
it's in your blood screen, so that that's the pk conversion. So what we're seeing is right now is the pope if this is so strong at lower or we're getting more and more potency. So I'm this is yeah it's uh. It's uh, I like to say: dilution is the solution to profitability, the more that we dilute the more potent it becomes so this. Why the neuroscientists in France are doing the study going. This stuff is so potent please diluted, diluted, diluted so and so we're We see this as a tremendous horizon. That lines means legal it's an edible choice, mushroom thousand year history of use. That we found. The mycelium is as far more potent in the mushrooms for really good reasons. The com. Some of the compounds are called Aranea scenes and these are actually discover one thousand nine hundred and ninety four looking for an anti bacterial agent,
and so when they, when he was looking at the mycelium fighting bacteria, he found that the mycelium express this anti bacterial. This thing in derivative- and he gave name Erin a scene after her Iseum Aaron Asia's, just like penicillin, the named after penicillium and so He stumbled on the fact that has neurogenic properties and antibacterial so the my silly, navigating through the ground to a hostile environment. So no one Cell wall thick, it mycelium, as an immune system, operational operational between forty degrees, Fahrenheit, ninety five degrees, Fahrenheit, thirty, five degrees celsius that's that's, the window is growing and so so immune systems operative in that window. When you do so, hot water extracts you're in the extreme zone. That's not part of the email, logical lifespan, of the mushroom, your dick cock Ting. It ingredients, but you're not harnessing
within the mythological logical window of temperatures that the mycelium has evolved to fight off pathogens so what we have found is the mycelium is far more active than the fruit bodies. This is will do science, but they had mushroom references. Com is populated with dozens upon. Does Use of peer reviewed articles showing the mycelium as far more active than the fruit bodies, an a hole hum sequencing of ratio, for instance, pounds twenty five more twenty five percent, more jeans coding for proteins are special. The mycelial state that the mushrooms to it makes sense because the mushrooms, at the end of millions of visions are months years, even decades, we a mushroom that rocks in five days the mushroom doesn't need a good immune system is attracting Michael Vores Animals dear. John just showed me some photographs of
It's going to show you of he was in a campground found dear in the morning digging up mushrooms on the ground. Well, animals engage Ross rooms. Your your! What your colleagues here or maybe it's Jeff, I'm sorry, Jeff when we go to work, okay, so the idea, but but many tions attract insects, people animals because they're fragrant and their protein there are nutritionally dense and they want to engage humans. The mycelium is navigating through a microbial hostile environment. An report came out the literature of hunger One thousand species of bacteria in a single gram is more than eight most of my psyllium innocent will cubic inch, so the mycelium is navigating through hostile microbial environment is setting up guild. Michael Biomes and collections of cooperating Back Terry, that can help them defend against pathogens. Look at that estimate up to eight miles of mycelium in a single inch of soil, and it's only one cell wall thank that's
such a weird looking image, so it's so hard to see what that is as a mushroom. That's melted back into the ground, Why am I so lonely and that's just not the mushrooms generate mycelium and it goes underneath the ground so every time you're walking on the ground, you're walking up on miles upon miles of mycelium, and it knows that you're there. These are sensitive? These are not only externalized stomachs. There are digest, nutrients, an externalized lungs exhaling carbon dioxide inhaling oxygen, but I believe these are extent neurological networks of nature. When you see that pervasiveness of those wells and the climate change scientists are coming around to the seventy percent of the carbon biologic stored in my silly in the ground, the way to fight climate change, not only re planting trees, which is great. I love it. But it's the mycelial networks are building in the humus that creates the soil, increase the biodiversity that then, learn to use the health of the ecosystem
so is the mycelial networks like govern cozar soap, so So they set up because her aunt bacterial properties are pro bacterial properties. Another example of this is in the microbiome of soils and save humans stomachs. Turkey tail mushrooms and a placebo, controlled random, a random. As is clinical study with humans from Scientists sociable Harvard found that turkey tail mycelium is a prebiotic for the microbiome that feeds bifidobacterium. Looked like a bacillus I am surprised, is clostridium, which is an inflammatory bacterium It's really really interesting that the mycelium is feeding nutrients to the beneficial bacteria within the microbiome. That then gives us health and so These are precursor nutrients, that elevate the population of beneficial vector. So the two go hand in hand. Now what
edible, mushrooms things like taki and those type of mushrooms and is there any nutritional benefit to those things are enormous nutritional benefit and there's been two also metal studies not this year showing that the ingestion of of of mushrooms with? elderly people over the age of sixty there's, a fifty percent decrease odds, of Alzheimer's like symptoms without population of people that consuming The mushroom meals per week. Now they didn't specify the mushrooms is not a single poor, but the mushrooms commonly eating, are oyster mushrooms. She talking and she made she I made some some other mushrooms. But that's that's once sorry the came out. There was a study out of Japan from Doctor a compliment, the national, cancer center. They found statistically significant reduction in cancers across the board. I think one hundred and sixty two thousand people in this data set
and he was sent over the Nagano prefecture to look for this and edible and delicious mushrooms. Also empower the immune system. This, no from the noise, statistically significant reduction in overall cancer rates associated with a food the division. Now, between you know, foods and medicines is blurred. And yet it speaks to Hippocrates stating that be like medicine, medicine be like food. So it's in because physicians have been taught. You know this molecular approached her medicine and now For realizing that these foods are extension, nutrients for the immune system, that that down regulation and so interesting that we're learning all this during our lifetime too, so you would think that would all be established by now well I'm glad you asked that we have a paper coming out the next two or three days, maybe the next week and on a turkey tail mycelium the grown on rice and we were able to find out
something that no one had been reported in the literature that traditional and medicine approaches? These are you know modulators, they help the immune system, but they also not inflammatory when you have an immune, in response, oftentimes associated with inflammatory response, blood rushes to the wound, even flame, you have all these sounds that are being produced the by the blood to to suppress infection, but you can over am the immune system and having a plant a pro forma tory response that can cause a lot of oxidative stress damage, data, collaterally, and so the article that just coming up with Bmc Biome central alternative medicine peer reviewed We have found that the mycelium when it grows on rice, Bio, ferments, the rice to that and produce a unique immunological response. That upregulates was
interleukin, one RA, an interleukin ten. These are anti inflammatory, cytokines, and so Hi Salim doesn't do that. The motion to into that, but the mycelium is by fermented and the rice that, like ten pages, has transformed or like yogurt, comes from milk because of a of a lack of a so plus or acid opolis, and that transformation then makes a novel product. We found the same thing that the the nice compared to the rice. Control has no anti inflammatory properties, the mycelium, because the extracellular metabolites change just the rice into a unique immunological product that excites the express' of anti inflammatory compounds, while also exciting the pro immune response. So as a buffer, response. It's interesting too, that you bring this up, but it's growing on something else that that seems to be
nature right. This sort of symbiotic relationship that some of these mushrooms have with the plants in the the the environment around them. That's a really really good point, because. The mycelium. Only we found with the bees when we the mice only I'm on rice compared to on birch wood there, the book, the my cell brown rice reduce the virus is ten plus the one thousand two hundred and fifty the mycelium grows on birch reduced. The virus is up to one thousand and one so that's a natural environment that that that speaks the fact that there appears to be something This coding, within the ecosystem, that that excites the mycelium to produce something that is more strongly result in an antiviral activity. He's with Curtis as well right quarter, mushrooms, grow on other things yeah, but the quarter system bring the girl on the worms. This is something that was a big subject of debate, because, because
cordyceps sinensis is it's it's it's a. Question. The grows on a worm, basically capital on a counter, lock, larvae and and that and in the Himalayas elsewhere in China in the Far EAST and people were finding these quarter subs mushrooms and they were cloning them, and then they got the, picture going and they analyze the culture and they got what's called an animorph. It's not that complicated two faces of the same coin: there's a mushroom fruit body and then there's this in perfect form. That is a looking organism, but they're actually the same. They have two different expressions when they all the scientifically sure kept on coming up with different Animorphs as a and all this competition, the scientific literature. What is a true anymore, of course, of sentences when I was caught off, feel quarter substances. They read the find it's called sensor. Strict though
analyze the the mushrooms. Not until recently discovered that another fun a group of fungi are chasing. The course of as the fruit body develops. Other fungi are chasing right behind the other fungus So we have multiple fungi that are actually present in the quarter. Steps warm is not just one species, S, multiple species that are are co occurring facing each other in the inside the the subs mushroom as fruits so again just speaks to the complexity of nature. So so what Should you get your quarters of source for health benefits? You know. That's a really good question, thirty? Six military us does not have these issues. The core substance is: does the problem this course abstinence as thousands of articles and published, really which, when they're talking about, is like a all mixed up now? What is What a true anymore for these scientists using
there once called pacilio. My sees you know, there's uh other ones that her her or her to tell us an ounce. This is not thought to be the true anymore for core substances. Well, all the lingo means, is basically there's a mushroom with a whole bunch of other fungi, their associated with it and when the culture other fungi. They did clinical studies or research studies and they came up with results. The problem is They mix it up into four or five different species, and you can't sort of d disambiguate the data now, because it's too complicated it's a really good question the course steps. Militaries does not have these issues, and so I was steer the course of small terrace right now, because of course, substances that let off course substances issues are still complicated and now verse thousands of research articles are in all now suspect, because no one has the foggiest idea what in a more if they were using a while. So big, I guess, makes the complexity of this
some some and how many people are actually working on this data to thousands of researchers and and I'm thankful that the chinese mycologist sort of ever the ones who finally sorted this out there's a lot of conflict academically, there's a lot of big egos and academia. People get wedded to their own research. You know we're all like that and- and the church just went back and forth, and fortunately chinese scientists. Finally, were able to narrow down the argument to understand that everyone was actually doing good culture work. They were actually expert mycologist, taking the right tissue taking it from the right quarter. Steps mushroom! It's just that at that time, that a different fungus that was naturally part of the inside of the mushroom. That was a mixture of fungi that were racing at different paces up the mushroom
The Chinese were the first to use it for a performance benefit right, or they were the first to at least be publicized to use it in the Olympics. They using quarter steps mushrooms that that was one of the this is why it on it, we developed room tech sport, which is one slash. Four steps mushroom based supplement, which I'd love, quarter; steps for workouts Pre workout is like it gives you an extra gear, it's really kind of crazy how effective it is, especially in combination with b12 and other adaptogens. It just has set a great pre workout supplement because it doesn't get you jittery at all. It's not stimulant, but you have like a little more juice when you exercise and that's things that those high altitude hurting populations have found right, that's exactly right is likely vasodilator and has to rule like benefits as well, so the other the corner suffered for athletes in it's been tried and true and men. If these or Animorphs that I mentioned have those properties.
For athletes like what dose would you recommend like if you're going I am not a medical doctor, so when people ask me recommendations, I know that the common usage of these on the order of two grounds you know they're, usually five hundred millimeters milligram capsules, there's lots of good companies. They are producing this. You know make sure is my mycelial base as not fruit body based clear evidence assigned the problem find out whether something is my psyllium Bayshore, sister Clara and we say mushroom mycelium on all of our labels, so and if you were going to take that like if you want to take shroom tech support, if you wanted to make your own concoction, you would recommend two grams and then and make sure You have no the chain of custody of where it came from because a lot of these companies by the spot, what company is a c g? U K, I mean I was defenseless defense. Is this yours? Yes, your company, okay, I will support you hosted
Benson, there's our website, where someone can grab the self funded dot com or host as defense, dot com, and do you sell, of course such as well? Yes, we do you go. And do you take this down before you exercise? Do you take absolutely steps? Yeah, I take a quarter. Saps take lion's mane and seven species blend in particular, Species ones: what's in that stuff, is stemming seven. It's got. It's got Chaga Scott ratio as a guerra. Con is kind of Birch polypore called the divorce, but your oneness so and has my talking in it. And these are. This is a seven species blend, but the the evidence for physician and people who want to look at peer, reviewed articles, the all species have the most elaborated and convincing evidence when you start compounding these. So what we're doing
We have five or six full time researcher several Ph Ds in our staff. We are again trying to disambiguate the complexity of all. These benefits by looking at one species out of time. So we're doing this methodically. Hundreds of thousands of dollars. Literally a year. Now I have a hundred and ten employees and I created my company in order to do research. I've no partners, so I can now data but the resources to be able to do novel research, and we love going up against conventional wisdom because you have to. Challenge conventional wisdom to see if it's indeed meets the master, for instance beta glucans. How big is a bagel? Can ten thousand dollars it's? A million have no idea what any of those words that were better look at our big polymers of sugars, okay, and so the big myth out there is a bit of glue. Cans are of the the golden compound.
Used to standardize products to, but there is not a certified method. We have wheelbarrow cool coming out? Also on a seven nice pieces plan using the same, it's called the megas, I'm Tessa sandbags on test with one was going same: exact, to do the same samples. One sample got less than one percent of the US. Got more than thirty percent. That is a disparate ray change of data that does not give you any confidence, and so the better can method. How big is the better will cancel the Medical as another giant scaffolding, is like the structure of this building and inside that scaffolding, as all these other compounds that are adornments, that are that are embedded this giant scaffolding, and so we did a clinical
play with Turkey, tail mushrooms and breast cancer. That was published in a peer reviewed journal and the scientists that I worked with can quail at AL nineteen, two thousand and sixteen. I think, published an article where they use lipases, which is an ends hum dissolves lipids, because I was arguing that medical cans are scaffolding, this other components inside a bit ago. Hands that are immunologically active, you know and they had reading literatures, all predominantly better boot camp. So I said well, let's do an experiment and they did. They took the ball and ran with it, and then they put this fat dissolving enzyme. Lipase is an they stripped, the lipids the fats from the beta glucan scaffolding. It then they took that product without the lipids and it reduced.
Response by eighty three percent, thus proving that the lipids that were inside the bit of the cans were pharmacological. Now the. Why that's important is we do hot water track you don't get fat. You know my is not miscible in water, and so that's why? separate so having these fat, some were made of fat call. Sounds good for you, fats are good for you wait. What are at that and whether you're a pay LEO guy right. So you know this from the fats are yeah, I don't like that? Word paleo, I think it's a little inaccurate what people ate during the paleolithic I like calling it prime yeah, that's a good one primal! You know some people call it the primal primal diet yeah, but this speaks to the fact that the the every mushroom species like a miniature pharmaceutical factory.
What makes a species is the accumulation of those compounds that are different mixtures. There's around one. The five million species of fungi. A hundred and fifty thousand species are mushroom. Forming fungi we've identified round fifteenth, species of those fifteen thousand species we have about twenty to forty species that we know are beneficial for human health. Well, that's pretty good selection criteria, going from fourteen thousand benefis species or potentially one hundred fifty thousand out there? We haven't identified most of them but our ancestors through trial and error have narrowed the field of candidates down about twenty or species that we know because of their molecular arrangements and complexity, benefit human health. Now it's when people pick mushrooms and they go out and pick mushrooms the issue seems to be that there's some mushrooms that are edible, that look very close to mushrooms, very similar to mushrooms that are very poisonous true
to the uninitiated and the people who have not learned, but when you under Shantrel. You will not mistaken. Nothing looks like a lion's mane mushroom, did you learn lines? Mane mushroom is hard to mistake it so are some and Alikes an Emma needed Floyds. They destroy angel and with uh. The strong mushroom, which is commonly cultivated collected in Asia. Collector any of the mushroom deaths in North America of come from not displaced but peoples. But people have come from Asia and because of secretive in the language barrier and the culture of being wild collectors. They then missed the destroying angel for a patty straw, mushroom, that's a real common mistake. There, other people who said they well just looked at table
really dangerous thing to say: you have to know species individually, there's there's edible species of aminata and there's poisonous ones and there's deadly poisonous ones. How many it seems to have a lot of controversy as far as its efficacy as far as like it's psychedelic efficacy, that I don't know anybody, that's ever really tripped off of it Musk area or mx yeah. Oh man do I have a story please, oh my god, because everybody that I know like in that was something that Mckenna talked about as well. Terence talked about while he was alive. He said that it seems it's genetically variable, seasonally variable, perhaps even environmentally variable. All those things are partially true. I've eaten miscarry A4 or five times man. Risk areas that red mushroom with white dots on their mushroom perfectly legal center plus mushroom, It contains moose imo, Muskurane, ibotenic, botanic acid, actually very little small amounts of Muskurane but the
muscarinic symptoms, because salivation and sweating- and I didn't trip of my send on on. Indeed, carry on and- and I looked at him- and he was foaming at the mouth, and I had all bubbles coming out of his mouth. I got man dude, you look like they have rabies. He goes. You should see what you look like so but then You must I've. I've eaten at a few times, and people do Boylan Water, throw with water twice in they can make it into edible mushroom. But it's not that great of inedible, but there's the motion called me. A Panther arena is a mushroom it has five times or more the amounts of Mousa mall. If it's almost no muscarine so the salvation affect on me, musk area. So I have had a very good friend. We are not friends anymore, unfortunately,
But I was in charge of the herbarium at the Evergreen State College and I freeze dried and that a they're called Panther cops there brown in color, and they have dots very good the Panther cop, perfectly legal mushroom, an extraordinarily powerful, so I was living up in Darrington Washington at his cabin. I was a lager hippie for a few years, and so my friend Dave came up an I these freeze, dried mushrooms from the herbarium, and I said: let's go ahead and eat these, and I had read in the almost no one had eaten them so made an, and I we cooked it up he was much lighter than me. So I thought well. I should have two slash three of the omelet right. 'cause he's lighter than Maine, so we ate the mushrooms run one thousand o'clock. And we're living in this cabin, but across the creek was a scar, Squire Creek Campground, and it was the week all the Winnebago people,
right back then in the 70s I hitchhiked across country thirteen times never Winnebago never picked so they're always in the enemy and we were long haired hippies in with the eighties mushrooms and we thought for entertainment. Let's go look at the Winnebago people, so we met that that it was so close. I don't know why we drove our car, but we drove the car out of my cabin We went down like a half a mile. We turned left into the squire, Creek Campground and a static we parked the car. And we wanted to go up to a beautiful view spot, and so we walked through the window, poor people and their families and everything else, and we get up onto a ridge animal. This is a great view spot, but we're waiting like an hour, no effect. You know, and I'm going to daves oh wow- maybe these aren't that potent and then right after we said that I looked at Dave and I said to tell you that
You see that, because yeah, we wait a few more seconds in this big distortion field. I'm going to beautiful view of the volcanoes in the valleys are big view. Scape, we could see the air with had become the service liquid and then it started coming on stronger and stronger and stronger, and we got all my god. This is getting intense. We better get the heck outta here and go home where it's safe. Because this coming on so strong, so we come down off this little this little plateau and we had to come down to the Winnebago people and then all my god and here were walking a thing about the end Amanita muscaria Pantherina. With all yellows and browns, but you feel like this giant and you're moving in slow motion every step. You're taking you know, you feel like this giant they moving really.
Low and and then I came to Winnebagos have no end. There were hundreds of feet long, I'm trying to walk past this probe a goes like when is this window bago when I and I keep on walking further and further and then oh, my god, and so then we're really just really really high. It was ridiculous and I had a really flex camera and we came up the car and so for some freaking reason. I locked the car, and so I had my key. I looked at my key and I look at the lock. I want PAM missed, shut, ok, pull the key back. Missed. Madame goes you! Ok! I go I'm fine because you want me to drive and I go no way dude. If I miss I there's no way. I want you to drive right and then over
over again then magically just for repetition. It just made it into the lock, so I unlock the door and I get into the car and I dropped my camera and I'm in the car and I'm trying to get my key in. Thank God, I didn't get my key and I was not safe to drive. And then Dave is going like, oh my god pool or so freaking high right now I go and say: well, let's go home, I said: did I drop my camera and I went over and looked like round? There is my camera. I picked it up and going while Dave, I got my camera drop, my camera again, oh, why do you start off my camera picture? My camera go I dropped my this over and over and over again repetitive motion syndrome kicked in as very common symptom of amateur Pantherina. I dropped my karma dozens and dozens of times
How did look at the end? Well, it was shattered, but Dave goes up. Paul used to look up and a whole bunch of people from the Winnebago family community had lined holding their children in close proximity, watching this repetitive motion syndrome, where I'm just constantly my camera, so they're watching you for entertainment, where you want to watch them ever entertainment and now the freaking out, because I have this repetitive motion syndrome and I take one step- a truck. My camera hi Dave are from my camera and I pick up my camera again. I don't think I just from my camera won't drop my again again speaks to speaks to the bazaar and is the word preserve came to the buzzer. And that in Scandinavia, where the legend has it that they were these. These the Scandinavians, the Vikings were surrounded and outnumbered and, and they were going to be killed the next day and they ate a whole bunch of then miscarry on and a big big soup
and a legend has it and it's not been confirmed, but this is the legend. This very commonly reiterated is that they, make a whole bunch ended in a miscarriage soup, and then they went and the next day, even though they're massively out numbered, they took off all their clothes in the attack, the enemy naked with swords, and that's where the word prasert came from there's workers. So I'm having this beserker experience of repetitive motion syndrome and I dropped my camera over and over and over again- and I looked up and the parents were holding their totally freaking out, you know, I said we gotta go here. So we left the doors open in the car and I'm taking one or two steps dropping camera picking it up and drop my camera, we finally made it back the he disappeared. I didn't know if the Dave you're on your own on dude, I have another. I have enough to worry about now. I made it back to my cabin and I get from my cabin and there's a combination lock. All no. I don't need a comma
right now, I can barely thought I'm spending lock back and forth, spinning, Michael and then eventually the lock to spontaneously opened in and I fell on the ground. I started convulsing and the cool about convulsing was it felt good? Every time I convulsed, I actually went, I feel so good, and so it involves some more and I was just convulsing constantly like epileptic control, convulsions, very, very intense, but they felt good. This is the weird thing I needed to convulse, because every time I can Also, I kinda gotta reset my neurology baseline and then it would spin out of control then I had this cascade of iced in ice tinny and thought I got all my god. I can save the world, I know how to do this and they don't have a prepositional or in verbal phrase, and just before I came to the object of my thought That was Einstein E end insight, outta have attention and then I'll come to the course at the end of that sentence, and then I have another tangent, I saw death as as a
perpetual series of alternatives that never gave me the satisfaction of a conclusive fought and sub. Or is it just lasted for about twelve hours? You know I fainted. I went into a coma like So you recommend that I do not recommend and there The biggest concern beside the repetitive motion syndrome is hypothermia, because, if you're out in the woods, or something and you're exposed you're not getting up so you're, going is called Soma for a reason is the Soma mushroom,
there's some difference. That causes is that what song is this? Is there some debate as to what some actually is? That's, what are Gordon Watson proposed? Sama, mathematic literature, there's a big debate about that, but the other story, I'd like to tell is my friend Doctor Andrew Weil, was at the cougar hot springs and an Oregon, an Andes medical doctor from Harvard, and he was walking the trail and people came running down to. Oh, my god. This guy is trying to kill himself gotta come up and Andy went up in this guy had to eat in a whole bunch of ambient miscarry on big biker dude, and it covered with blood, and he was up on a bridge and he was swinging. His legs back and forth in his above, the rock say, threw himself off the bridge. Now is only about six or eight feet, but it's enough onto the boulders down below smashed himself on the rocks, and then he climbed back up on the bridge and they swung his feet.
Threw himself off the bridge. So this causes repetitive motion syndrome to both of my camera, etc. Isn't much on this perfectly legal, as probably one of the most dangerous mushrooms that anyone could be like definitely advised not doing this, because I always thought if I was ever called as expert witness. Having these experiences and someone was watching tales from the crypt on tv and then they saw a knife. It's causes temporary insanity I mean this whole side. Mushrooms are wonderful, their peaceful there, loving and empathic, oh right, but amanita mushrooms cause this strange, strange sort of behavior that is really potentially dangerous and that is the mushroom that was documented in the sacred mushroom and the cross, where John Marco Allegro alleged that he alleged that the entire christian religion was essentially
understanding. It was really all about the consumption of these psychedelic, mushrooms and fertility rituals, and that these were all sort of or captured and stories and tales and parables yeah an epic suicide for him. Now, with that statement and still very controversial, you read the with his work. Yes, I have. What do you think well, linguistically the guys way over my head- and I read- is that this: book is all about linguistics and when the translators of the dead sea scrolls maybe on my kind of knowledge. It's so far beyond my kind of knowledge, I can't make rhyme or reason out of it. That seems to be the with that most people can't yeah. So, but I nurse threads of truth in all of this, but I don't buy it. You know on its face on the the grand you always conclusion that he made but clearly mushrooms have inspire religion, yes, an ITC's workshops on gourmet medicinal mushrooms and one of these workshops,
spiritual guy, he's very quiet, but very definitely kill walked. Just looked like the real deal, he waited until everyone was gone. Nice apart been sent here, I said really and so on. I am a devout Christian, I'm in Billy, Graham's inner circle and a bunch of us takes all five motions of sacraments and as What a surprise! This brought us closer to Jesus closer to our religion. Now I don't care if you're, muslim or christian or Hindu, the idea these mushrooms, making you feel the the spiritual universe, more spiritually connected your cultural heritage in your reference points, but he said extremely important. Now my mother was a charismatic christian. I met some people in her group who came to their religious beliefs through psychedelics Donde Psycho Ex now,
but that's was our portal. They had their big revelation through psychedelic, so the the connection between so so I've been in magic, mushrooms in religion. I think has a lot of credibility and there's lots of great examples of that. The specificity of some of the arguments people make. I have great great doubts about that's interesting, about in the ancient Hindu religions, the the ancient Hinduism and some of the ancient books speak of various sacraments that have sort of never been defined right, yeah, the Brahman cows are sacred. Thank you know when this last week of answers grows out of a cow poop in India and yet they won't eat cows and Buddha supposedly died from a mushroom. It was a and he was given a mushroom by a peasant and and just the mushroom and died uhm. You know that so
there is that connection. I've always thought it curious that this last week events is such a religious, provoking mushroom and yet Owls are highly revered as being sacred. I would think you would keep the mother of the mushroom sacred you want to protect the resource, but again these are at times when, when bulls in parables and and religious rights were controlled by the Cognos Sunday and they were the gatekeepers of knowledge that was too powerful for the general population to understand or appreciate, and so they protected that knowledge when it that's that's the rule of most religions. Is that the inner circle you know holds the keys to the kingdom and what's happened with Orthodox religion says they create institutions where Hey tidings, in order to have a gate keeper just to have a contact with god- and not, I think, is- is the monotheism versus Polytheism Jack herer.
For he died, was working on a book about psychedelic drugs, specifically mushrooms and- and just experiences and they had some really crazy old paintings that he had found that showed people. That were naked, seemingly dancing in ecstasy, the translucent mushroom around them and the idea being that is supposed to this. This image was supposed to represent someone who's tripping, there's a lot of it really interesting books that have been published that show art. You know going back hundreds of years, even you know, into the Clinton, the late thirteen hundreds showing in a christian art were mushrooms, are, are pretty easily seen. So there's there's a long history of that, but but it becomes a on five
mobile I mean, maybe you can imagine it to be true, but how can you prove it to be right? How can you so a lot of that is, like is great historical information. Probably a lot of it's true hard to say, which is which is true, which is not with somebody but isn't all right yeah, but in modern times now Johns Hopkins. The use clinical studies are on. Mrs, and spirituality are showing that these are some of the most spiritually significant experiences of people's lives. The interesting thing about the Johns Hopkins Studies is that Seventy percent of the people have positive experiences and, fourteen months later, so described his experiences being significantly positive, their friends or colleagues fellow work there's also say that materially change these people's personality, but the thirty different people had experiences. The negativity of experience did not extend more than experience itself. So this is, To remembering and what's been determined term when you have these
very profound spiritual experiences. It's it's with you and when you re remember it you rekindle that thought And this may be a way of overlaying PTSD, rather than have the France Standard, this associated with PTSD supplanted with a positive experience, but the people negative. Experiences during tripping did not, have a negative that negative consequences. The next and more than experience itself. So this was this is profound insight and so John Hopkins Griffis just emailed me play them. Other clinical studies that are ongoing, looking and we just got published on meditators, given placebos versus getting high doses of psilocybin and then measuring the consequences of those experiences months or a year or two later again. The same thing is reinforced. These so I experiences create a positive reference point
you, you can capitalize on by remembering them subsequent from this experience by not even having to take the mushrooms again, that is When you have a happy memory that you can anchor your personality on it's a game changer now I just I wonder if we're ever going to see in our lifetime centers where you can go and a in professional can guide you through. Something like this happening now. Is it yes, California, Institute of Integrative studies and run the bases of Cisco. I was training therapists and, there, therapists in Europe. There are therapists, training programs now psychedelic therapy, this is something that is that has a tremendous momentum. An indigenous peoples have a real nice structure. Many of them do not all, but many
a good structure for the responsible use of these substances. Us they are displaced people, so I will call us european the base people, many other people, a displaced, We don't have the same constructs historically that we can operate within and so the cycle, Therapist movement is huge right now, and leading the way the canadian government is very, very positive towards second therapy, because the opioid crisis and significant result in the movie. This is: I'll call dosed Dost, tracks are addict young, lady and Vancouver it is a heroic movie. It is now one of these you kind of feel put it on the movie, but it is it is it. It is intense and she's doing a bogo. I see also high doses of mushrooms, but the opioid, This is so pervasive there. So poor treatments available
through the second like therapies and several days, they're a tremendous success and people breaking you know decades long opioid addiction within a week, and so the cycle therapist or integral success, and so there are clinics now arising all over the world for this and portion. All in Mexico and Spain in Jamaica. Through the clinics are rising specifically to meet the needs of people who are trying to get these legally, so they don't get in trouble with so in Portugal and Spain in Jamaica, the for instance. These are legal of many of these something, Sorry, who will give me a lot of hope, is that everything seems to be trending in a positive direction. Like all these things, you're saying your own personal experiences from from two thousand and eight versus two thousand and nineteen all these different treatment patterns. Pathways that are available now the people that were never before and that were
starting to see an acceptance overall, just the general population, People stand with. This is that this might literally be the cure to what ails us I in a for for people out there who haven't not gonna deep soul. Simon experience, this is very important for me to emphasize in, after you do a heroic journey of the soul. The next day, when you look at those mushrooms you say no way, dude, I'm not touching those yeah long time give me six months. I'll come back to him. There are anti addicted by their nature. 'cause! It's so powerful, so powerful and profound and you've gone through the gauntlet in but you're not ready to do it again, and so how many drugs that can have such a dramatic impact that are non addictive that can break addictive cycles with other drugs right. I think this is a gateway. A quick, okay gateway will opportune
today for solving many of the ills of our society. I couldn't agree more anything else for get outta here. No, I just want to thank you and your audience for having the courage to bring these subjects to the table in a coherent. We don't have all the answers. We will make mistakes. I think it's really important that we take we're the adults in the room. We see somebody spending off the rails rather than being judgmental golden put your arm around them. Saying: hey, there's better benefits Just from this fully understand why people want to party with them, especially when they're younger and they go in the coming of age, as you mature. These are really important for your own sanity and for the health of your community and your family psilocybin. Mushrooms, make nicer people I think that's a great way to say it and I agree, and I think it should be on a t shirt, maybe a bumper sticker
and I want to thank you, man, without your knowledge and information, and the way you're able to so eloquently express all these ideas. Allow people would know a whole lot less. So it's a team effort, it's just not me as a whole as a whole, isn't up measuring so mycelial underground. That's reaching up and telling people and sharing with her friends. So check out the movie. Fantastic. Fungi is really good and ost, two good movies that to this end, your website once again, fungi dot com funds are dot. Com Paul stands lives. Jim. Thank you Paul. Thank you. Thank you by. Thank you, everyone for tuning into the show and thank you too sponsors. Thank you, too. Honey save yourself. Some money and you can hard for free. How about that installs and just two clicks: you get it for free, Joinhoney dot COM, Rogan and save yourself. A ton of loot honey can
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Transcript generated on 2019-11-17.