Boyan Slat is an inventor, entrepreneur and former aerospace engineering student. He is the founder of The Ocean Cleanup organization: https://www.theoceancleanup.com/
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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That is floating around in the ocean, the Pacific garbage Patch, which is twice the size of Texas, came over the invention at first, when he was sixteen years old and he's been. Working on it ever since, just a bridge and brilliant guy, and I really really enjoy talking to him and they ve made some great strides and he's gonna talk about that. They have actually method, a new one, that's cleaning up rivers and polluted areas. I love this guy. Please give for the ceo of the ocean, clean up boy and slots will gain. Experience could see gonna liquid I've been reading that you are having some great success with your machine. Finally, its everything's up and running last time we talked you had yet implemented actually out in the wild and now you explain to us,
handsome bumps and unbeginning rent, yes, yeah, so speak quite a few years. Finally, something's happening So we we launched or first ocean system from San Francisco in September, last year and we took it out and rob Two months later we fit. We figured that first of all, it wasn't catching plastic. So what we saw was that the system was moving at roughly the same speed as the plastic. So maybe you just take one step back the idea and how it works, or so Of course, where does this great Pacific garbage patch between here in Hawaii, twice says of Texas hundred million kilos of plastic don't go away by itself and daddy was due to have this art Fischer Coastline, that is driven by the forces of the ocean. We put it in there and the plastic
naturally accumulates against sitting kind of stays in theirs that we condemn periodically, get it out, because the that the big challenges that although there is a lot of plus it gets. It spread out over this this vast area, so we first have to concentrated before we can take it out, because if you are too simply trawl the ocean for pleasure boats and that's it we're just take no for forever really so so did it was soon to to have those artificial coastline. We deplore the first one and then what we saw was that somehow system was moving at the same speed as the plastic, so you can imagine if fifty out this is like a Yo Yo like men- and this is your you're you're you're catch and is moving at the same speed- it's not going in and sometimes it did but it went out again we got a video of it when it was another great. So so this is basic idea, but it wasn't doing that so so and then without that go that's that's right. Rights will learn
we will try to justice systems and then literally, exactly A year ago the system broke into two, and so at the structural failure forcing us to tell the whole thing back to land and go back to the drawing board. So so we didn't have the best start of this year, how much time has been lost or how much time has been spent. I should say in the beginning phase the initial yeah version that you launched as well now, so we ve been going on at this for us. When he thirteen allow softwares, yes, a busy after five years, where's launching it and see it break into those wasn't. The the best start of the Erika could have imagined then went to the drawing board and yet the tea really took a well they and we took does less. Into account, adjusted the design and relaunch really just a few months later on June and
this time, we made the system of Europe a bit more modular, so we could try, I'm different things to try and adjust the speed, make it go faster, make it go slower, and then we figured was whether system isn't going fast enough. What have we actually turned? The problem is a solution. What if we turn it around and actually slow it down, so that it go slower than the plastic and Then what we figured that that actually works hand in October, we announced that were actually catching plastic and really just last week, the first to shipping containers pollute fully plastic were We're landed important while so, it's really recently up and running yelling expected that how long does it take to accumulate to shipping containers for tat? I was roughly month month, and how big these shipping a twenty foot so very two of these So the only thing that's really stopping from getting more is like the actual size of the net itself. Yes, so so that the next steps another we can learn from them
to one we have the basic principle of catching plastic confirmed. I will have to make a bigger before we can build a whole fleet of them because they are, we recommend, need maybe fifty four hundred of them to really cleanup path. Dispatch of five years: that's that's the objective, half the whole patch and five years. That's the real objective! That's how is it really possible to have enough systems? That's in credit now where you are in terms of like trying to get these systems made and implemented so that so d now we just finish this. This first step with the system number one is how we called it, and the next step is to develop our ecosystem, to which is it's going to be a bigger version, and the adheres to me
amidst the amount of vessel use that you need for it, so that comes because boats are really fuck and expensive. The debate that we have cost roughly fifteen thousand euros per day to keep running words, does one boat bout. You dont want boats to. Would you anticipate that it ever gets to a point where the amount of money that you can generate from the actual resource of physical plastic can actually pay for the experts, the whole experiment hope, so that so we want to travel next year with by making products from the catch. The way that we make in the mature itself. Hardly as any value. It is ready to the story. HU. It makes draws a painting, I don't feel guilty the answer recycled, straw, yeah threatened in the ocean. Without yeah. That's a terrible idea.
What are you gonna be very sustainable business model, just yeah just keep guy, and yet what is the Yom? What are the products that you're thinking about oil drilling with ideas, we said, still come under development, so I think timber. We should be ready to launch the first one, but I think it's gotta be thinks that that our durable that don't end up in ways that you actually that will retain their value. So can last for a very very long time and that chick she wanton ideally carry around. So you can talk about with other people and actually now said just now quickly with that first plastic, I'm sure we said okay now we welcome, are supporters to actually make a machine the reservation but kind of film maker make a down payment so that it can be first in line. So if people go to a website that can actually put in the fifty bucks and get the right for the first ever products made
the groups have a garbage met. So you just trying to figure out what products will have the most sustainability went by products. People keep for the longest yeah and think that people want you don't want some kind of gimmick. That's just going to be this paper. Wait the flip in like an easy one right, don't I mean people loved by foot flops they bought flit fobs specially people that are like a sort of like Outdoors ii type folks should precede the beach and maybe have to write these things down. But if ops praise one and you know it is what else Jamie would also be a good one belts. People like belts, shoes, any for parliament or yeah shoes like definitely some eases some dope. We saw get some recycled sneakers like what foam like the found that they make running shoes out? That's a very specific type of yes, not actual placid,
right, so I made us up mouths to type of plastic. We may be able to to fund this mature, as I think we can test with that really turn into foam. Yes, there's some sort of a process in b make athletic shoes stubby easy when people, but they will you'd have to have a way to make until like incentivize people to recycle them movies. So ironic, those fucking things one back in the ocean. No there's gotta be a way to do that. Just tell I have like if you have, own company, like drop off points in cities, where, when they done with their stuff, if it's broken down or its old of use. Italy, you throw it into this, been and you will ensure that it gets converted back and raw materials and utilised again right circular economy that be a great move if he in people, do that if you, if you made it easy for you not sort of ex recycling bins, they make it. Before them delete, built or other bottle in their turn out Oh you have these two
cargo ships. Are these two cargo containers filled with this plastic stuff. What do you do it now? Yet? So that's going to you for forty, there isn't really any useful recycling four structure in the? U S, so we set up this this infrastructure in Europe to be able to four sorted and then spread it and then recycled and then make those first products out of them, so hopefully, and hopefully with that then generate the the cash needed to to continue running the cleanup. But of course, now it's so small scale. Eventually, we should have those number shipping Dana's every everyday fairly soon. A group of people who trying to come up with ideas what to make of the plastic? Yes, a team in inside there to clear working on that, and so they think they set up by September. They should be ready to launch the first products
that's great man, that's the whole idea of HANS Beautiful, you have a river system to as well right. Yes, so so that's the thing right. So on one hand me too. We need to clean up. What's what's running, the ocean doesn't go. Way by itself and physically evaluated to do with that is to just go: go out there and clean it up. But of course, then there is this, the other side of the equation, which is there still you'd huge amounts of plastic into the ocean everyday, mostly from trees in Central America, South South EAST Asia, where people are carried this Stage of development or countries are at a stage of development where, where the people are wealthy enough to soon, a lot of things that are wrapped in plastic. Yet there isn't any waste infrastructure we had to take care of it. So
literacy, people on on scooters, just drive on to bridge to dump their municipal waste into the river, because that simply the easy way to get rid of it to your point: What is this people and does so it's not really that people dont care there or that they are civilized something, but is really a combination. There's a lot of people and there is no infrastructure that that they can make use of. So so then beckoned, twenty fifteen. We were like a maybe some when in time this is ocean thing will work out. Who knows, but then worse stuck, but this problem that there still so much plastic flowing in that we will just have to keep going forever, and that would just be
not very motivating, and we want to be this project with a beginning at an end. So when I okay so where's the placid coming from them, we figured pretty rivers. Rivers are like these, these arteries that carry detract from from lent to see, because when it rains, plastic washes from streets to Creek to river to ocean, and but then we find out that there is a hundred thousand rivers in the world. So that's kind of a big amount. If you want to do something about it, so so we started doing measurements and rivers and what we found was tat. Just one percent of rivers are responsible for eighty percent of the of the pollution. So really just very tiny amount of rivers. If you were to tackle those, could really address the majority of of the plus the going into the ocean and it's it's me Lee like these relatively small rivers in in capital.
Like Manila, Jakarta Kuala Lumpur, if very high density of people near the coast, that's where most of the leakage was the emissions occurs, so sincerity fifteen where we ve been kind of as a secret side project in working on. Seeing what can we actually develop? Something too to intercept the plastic? in those rivers- and we just launched a month ago, colored the interceptor and it's. This sub advocate is scalable system that that's almost plugin play. So you bring it to a river and you install it and it been just works fully autonomous solar power. This is all real. The real plastic that's being pulled out this river ass it from your machine. Yes, it is a credible. This is the prototype. That's amazing! This was enough, Jakarta from Let us just listening we're looking at this thing, pole enormous amounts of classic out of this river, and it's all
doing so in in their stacking and into these bags? Is it's a large the quantity of stuff I air and then maybe you can pull up the video of interest for two and innovation we already have two of them in in real life, as we speak avoid doing anything with fish. How do you aid tapped acts accidentally, oh my god, it's out real yeah! This is this, is the Clang River in Kuala Lumpur and its according to your models like the fifth most polluting river in the world. So one per cent of all plastic going into the world's oceans is coming from one river, and this has on believable how polluted this is. This is crazy, ten million killers per year, roughly so just just looking at it looks like a wasteland at so sad so so that we so so we now for interceptors to them have already been deployed.
Here's the one now going to turn to the clang river and can have wanted to make it look like like a spaceship. Some people would like it, and so it s this barrier that that concentrates the plastic to the mouth of the interceptor, where you have a conveyor belt. But then scoops it out of the water again fully solar and battery powered and then deposited on this moving shadow conveyor, which then distributed across these big dumpsters, can hold roughly fifty cubic metres trash, and it just works by itself. So it's that's what it How much does a dozen saying about garbage that you're pulling out of their what you will eat when you look at it visit visually folks and watch the video? What is the name of this video Jamie should be when he's fine rivers interceptor oh to cleaning in Malaysia is the title of the Youtube video Crazy now in
you're, not catching revisionist, oh yeah, so so because this is barriers non permeable. The current just flows underneath it basically that the sea life can just passing a one point. We had this giant lizard, which is poorly two meters shipwreck. Post photos, chick I've, climbing onto the barrier and then just swam around it. So two meters really wanna have they who was What can losers but don't forget another name but It was some kind of monetarism to monitor that dear you're, it dear where's, that is, if an image that no nineteen percent- You have imposed. Ok, here's looking for a site, you say it was out there so it's safer fish What about all the stuff that doesn't flowed on the very service right so
This isn't goes down. One meter: will we measured? Is that really almost all the plastic isn't that top layer, and so short, don't be a hundred percent efficient, but I think it is really about having this pragmatic thing that catches most of it and and, most importantly, Liese wildlife alone is everything else can swim underneath that exactly that's! That's great! and so this plan that you had when new spin. So tears, running much of your daily time is devoted to this? I don't think there's much much free time at all, so I ask for your past year have now a single free day? So not a single here at nine, a m to usually nine p m in the office just adds being now busy, but I think it was some.
It was worth it now, looking where we were beginning of the year to arena will now they eventually pulled. These cargo containers filled with pride together the ocean. That must give you an extreme feeling of satisfaction. Right Eve is actually made work like you says it's moving now, so I was kind of hoping for that feeling. But then, when you get to the point your but there's still, you can really only see the amount of work that still have so said, actually really hard to dance, enjoy successes and in a way I should probably get better. Its heart. Well, particularly you're doing you have a monumental task in front of you and what you are doing is rightly being plotted by so many people- but I don't know how many people are actually helping you- you have a crazy, saying that you're doing you trying to pull the plastic the ocean when people find out of, the Great Pacific garbage patch, they did, they get panic.
Like what? How long has this been going on? How aware? How do I not know about threats caused so few people? I mean, I would think like me, forty, China population understands there's a gigantic patch garbage in the middle of the ocean, and it was discovered twenty years ago now exactly twenty years ago, and I always still there has been growing ninety ninety eight know how to goddamn clue now and then went way what here is all this garbage any keeps getting bigger and bigger picture, pretty good story. This is some the sailor called Charles more. It was some participating in a sale raised between Hawaiian, California and the while others would go further north. He thought well, let's try and cut off this this peace, and then he was looking at the water and they just just saw that all the trash, and then he went back he was shocked about it and then he decided to to put that takes a measurements published the results of that kind of popularized that whole concept of the grapes of enlargement.
It's a weird thing to see when you see drones flying overhead- and you see the footage of ITALY and its also it's it's a lot lot of it. His lot smaller than people. Think of it connects it's broken down by the ocean right, yes, that's that's! What happens over time is that this is larger objects. How does he enters the the ocean due to that the working of the ways of the sun breaks down, these smaller and smaller pieces, which actually not really a good thing, because a smaller pieces are then easier to ingest for fish and other wildlife, so so the smaller gets and in a way that the more harmful it gets as well and fourchan, where we see that still and ninety two percent of the plastic is still not micro, plastic, some big step, but, of course, if we don't clean it up over the next few decades, all other big self will also become microbe lesson,
and then in a much worse state? Is the clean up of Microsoft, those micro plastics possible, or is it just something than these big sort of rethought out? Well, though, Thou is actually one of the positive surprises that we that we had this year's, that the cleanup system and in the patch wasn't just catching plastic and not just the big stuff. It was also catching most of the micro plus. Down to one millimetre clogged up with all the other stuff as owners or not exactly sure how it was able to do that. We just saw huge amounts of those those microbe lesson in the system. Its polyester do something with the radiation of the way. So you have those that big pipe that keeps the system together and because ways arm and crashing against it. It reflects ways as well almost like a lens. It was concentrating those micro plastic into one patch in the mill of the system. So we can have this holding on into into into this as those
Let's that was really we weren't expecting to collect micro places, but there we were that's pretty cool, so now. Where are you in terms of trying to expand it to a point where you could really give this goal of half of the plastic or the ocean and five years yeah so so it would probably easier if we had one goal, but we now have two girls for ourselves. What is the fifty percent a five year for the for the patch, but the other One is that we want to have interceptors into one thousand most polluting rivers- to want to do the eighty percent in now in the next five years, so we'll be, will be pretty is he really really busy? Yes, enough is enough. Yeah,
how many people working for Europe in your organization now about a hundred and a great team has been, is now better that has ever been so? Fortunately, there is, there is definitely help but term, but we're so recruiting crime. I think that our twenty thirty people coming up here, Sir, So definitely there is a lot of work to do and what is his ride been like four for you from being this, like really young guy, when figure this out, how old were you when you came up with the idea first ideas when it was sixteen but really founded the organization when it was eighteen yeah. So that's really young. Eighteen to where you are now just being constantly involved in this process. What I've been like for you Educational? So really when I started and when I look back at minus, are really didn't have a bloody clear. What I was doing and I suppose there was a good
thing, because if I would have known how complicated and how big it would have to become in order to actually take some passing out of the ocean, I probably wouldn't have started it wishes to beg and remember we're doing the M, giving my first presentation back in twenty twelve, and somebody approached me and he said: okay, greater dear it's going to cost tens of millions of dollars, so you're going to need a team of maybe a hundred people too, to to get this to a point that it could actually work, and I thought this guy was crazy. No way you can see. Twice. It has started a two million dollar crowd funding campaign to to get it started and yeah. He was some closer to the truth than I have ever imagined. When you, when you think about the amount of time that you're investing in this deed, how do you see yourself ever getting off this ride? Is this what you want to do for the rest of your life?
No, so I do. I simply want to solve problems, and I think this is kind of a good start or problem. It's I think it's fair feasible to actually solve it. It's by the way, hilarious, you're talking about the great Pacific garbage as a start. Probably look ambition to you, that's one of the most perplexing problems with garbage and waste today, yeah, but I do think it itself about on its
I think it is too according to you and your saying, but the cholera starter problems Larry's yeah and at- and I think this was the exciting thing for me- is that it can pick this progress as the first one, because I believed it would not just be celebrated solvable by a relatively small group of passionate people. Hand. Yes, of course, what I hope is that, but, theoretically we can kind of create this blueprint of how you solve a problem and how you are you make civilization a bit more sister, animals that hopefully with the blueprint, we can not only solve more other problems in the future, but also inspire others to to do safely that that's a beautiful sentiment and do you have any other things that you want to try to solve once youve sort of step away from this, so I really
This is definitely not going to be a shortage of ideas. So I give this little book letters overflying, but what but I realized is too to be successful with the clean up. I really needs razor sharp yes, and I can only do one thing at the right time and like ideas are like viruses and when they enter your mind. It kind of expansion, evolves and really quite dangerous actually to have new ideas. Those forget who said that somebody receive saying that the best thing you can do is having one great idea than never having any other ideas and the rest of your life, just because you are to be your resources right dear to achieve something in it. Full focus things too.
Brand to get things it's accurate. What would you think, though, about what I was gonna get out was? Do you ever conceive of possibility of coming up with something that removes Carbon from the atmosphere an issue with us right, red carbon emissions. So definitely believe negative emissions. Would you refer to them will be required to make the girls to kind of keep the warming in in check Its, however, it's a much more difficult problem, because if you- think of the ocean. It's it's very two dimensional problem. It's a plastic on the surface and should lay it's not even the whole ocean. It's kind of content
waiting in these accumulation zone. So the garbage patch allows twice the size of Texas. It still one point: six million square kilometres while the ocean is like three hundred million square kilometres to mad said very just maybe less than two percent of the ocean, which needs to be cleaned and its again as a two dimensional problem, while the atmosphere. Is, is three dimensional, so it's just this. Does one dimensional increases just system? You judge genocide. I do think it needs to be tackled. Stuffily, exciting parliament, you think about. I do think that Stuffily, that's a good start. A problem to two workers know: wasn't there sometime Jamie that we talked about where they had figured out a way to make these building sized centrally vacuum cleaners there we're gonna put in the centre of certain cities I believe it was in Asia. Maybe
China. They come up with this and in the autumn of the implementing yet. But the idea was to have these enormous things in place that look like a skyscraper and really he was just a huge vacuum cleaner for car measure. Another a few companies that work they ve carbon engineering is one. There is also this also one out of Switzerland's forgot, the name but ass. A deadly get smart people are our work that problem, I'm not sure where they are in terms of economics, schizophrenia, dimensions, cartridges, engineering is this one, so that it looks like benefit giant fans huge building, fill with facts, They believe humanity can solve climate change e hikes. Imagine like we have filters for air the same. We have filters for water, direct air captured technology, carbon engineering
more than ten years the making that can capture carbon dioxide directly from the atmosphere and Libya that machine targeted close upon what that thing looks like it looks like a giant fuckin. Washing machine rightly is washing the air doesnt George Washington. While that mean it seems like its feasible, doesn't seem like it, something that's impossible, yeah, that's it. I think death the scalability that that's the main revenge will its also free. Like if you drive over a fly over Manhattan rather and see the density of the structures and how many buildings are in there. You know the people it's a pretty insane shit back, why good they make some giant insane vacuum cleaner for the air, that's as big as a city block. Of course I love it comes down economics. He our system is not very good at valuing things that our long term rare directly benefit ourselves. So so definitely people tax it
we will find a way to make a profitable there's another one rendering of what one would look like to capture one million tonnes of co2 per year. Both something looks like a benign yeah, yeah, Polly, annoying as fuck. Look at us fans the. So weird, though, like the whole array of fans like that seems like a way to do. It looks like somebody build a giant computer and to clarify and then know how all this carbon, what the fuck they do, it that burn it, what they do. You make shit out of it when you do make diamonds madness, girls best friend, make it out the carbon that you pull out of the air ticket this alone. That would be a great business model. Does it be like a green diamond? I had a diamond actually made, and it's all pressure by solar power, these solar power to fuckin smash it carefully. Freedom of same carbon fiber on those of the simple, yeah, why not rather Cosby its carbon, so carbon
is how they may die in its call right, which is essentially carbon. Do they make diamonds from car? They make damages from call. What is call calls like Bert shit right, there's many many forms in which carbon exists. Now, I know they are still structure. They are doing that now when they are making commercially. Made diamonds, diamonds made of carbon. So form as carbon atoms under a high temperature inspiring pressure. They bond together to start growing crystals. That's why a diamond such a hard material! because you have each carbon Adam participating four of these very strong coverlet bonds, that warm between carbon atoms under reward that read that word out loud equivalent of Europe. That we're not cause island is ice. It never seen that word So these bonds that formed between carbon atoms. So they know
are doing they there they're making diamonds with certain machines. I pressure yeah. If they do thou, be thou, be hilarious. That would be good thing too, because they would put a debt and the actual diamond market, which is weird lockdown, fuckin strange market, his diamonds are nearly as valuable as their set out to be debated, takes these diamonds and they stockpiles I'm, an only release, a certain amount of em. They keep the price very high, but it's all engineered the prom like diamonds used to be far more rare than they are now, but with the innovation in mining technology and their ability to get to diamonds yet before their loved ones, because it's not as valuable as it appears when you go to buy one another, so we can make carbon diamonds brow and action plans. Again so determined chain saws, Uruguay, twenty four, a diamonds out of ocean powers that be the ultimate green diamond, managed,
like, if you like, a really ecologically minded, wrapper? You were all your eyes could come from the ocean, but have know from trash treasure. Yes, dig dude. That's fuckin. That's that's the signature. The company in quotes from trashed treasure. Rightly things down boy and diamond some of that alike. It do you could be the first. I gotta do this here we go a plastic. This is an ocean diamond. Whoa earth is crushing the ocean into salty diamonds. That's a dope looking I went to whatever the soul. I guess recreated salty diamond deposits in a high pressure, high temperature experiments suggesting that many of earth die men's form when them mantle crashes, ancient sea bed, minerals isn't science in the earth cool
and if you do get to do that, here's another problem. Ok, his is a big one for the ocean. We are depleting it of seafood authorized. For me. We have heard you say his name again. Somehow yes right, Louis employers who are directed the cove on, then we were talking about the depleted. The planning and wildlife in the in the ocean and when you start looking at it on a grand scale like how much fish they're pulling out of the ocean to three sobering. You know, maybe you can come up with a way to replenish fish in the ocean, so we can continue. Eating sushi fell so maybe get it. Just zoom out of bed and rid us of what is so because, of course, plastic pollution, climate change over fishing- I think it's all part of one big problem to make civilization sustainable and that's the way I look at it is that, of course, over the past two hundred years, humanity is made
tremendous progress. So of course, since agriculture real revolution ten thousand years ago, twenty, has been kind of stagnant, no progress, just very, very slow progress, number of people lifespan, it was all kind of flat. Nothing really happened and then, since the dawn of the industrial revolution, when we learnt how to utilise science and, in our knowledge, collective knowledge to to turn that into progress. That every possible metric for humanity has improved tremendously and if you think of wealth, health, violence, education right, all these things are and know that Steven pinker on these is much more knowledgeable on that topic, that than I am yet sorts of true at this point in time. It is
never been a better time to be alive for humans than than today, not saying that it can get better, but we have made tremendous progress by one: in imagining things that don't exerts, inventing technologies and also inventing institutions and, on the other hand, are human ability to to collaborate effectively in large numbers, which includes the corporation, which is a very effective way for for people to to work together. Now All that progress has always has also had its negative side effects which are most pronounced of goods in the area of the environment, where we put things environment that that shouldn't belong there and we take too much out of it than nature can replenish, which includes the fish, and, on the other hand, we have the pleasure, going into the environment, etc, so So the question is: how do we solve that and of course, one hand is too
Say: okay, it s kind of the. Maybe the Lou died as may be a very negative way to two phrases, but the So the reactionary approach of say: okay, we should consume. Less corporations are back knowledge is bad. We should all get rid of all those things and I think we have a firm and them money. The environmental movement which is weak. This romantic movement has this image of back. In the day, everything was grey who lived in harmony with nature. So let's get rid of all this modernity and try and return to that pure original state When I, however, believe that, first of all that I don't think it's a very realistic thing, people want to keep their iphones in their cars and people want to move forward and, at the same time, I don't think it's really the most effective way to solve this problem. Because it would be like fighting a leper tank with, but bow and arrow here too
Energy is nothing more than an enabler human capabilities. It enhances our power. So why not use that power to also try and solve these these these these problems as well, so, rather than trying to reject business rejecting Angie. I truly believe that we should embrace those those forces that make a human and then has created this amazing. What to also try and solve these. These negative side effects low, and that's why I believe now the overcoat jump over consumption of fish is not going to end my people all becoming Fagin, but rather through fake, meets. I think that the
transport emissions are not going to be solved by people not flying anymore, not going anywhere anymore. Realistically, people are going to fly more, so you better event, technologies that allow people to do that without harming the environment and the same thing, I think, would be the case for four four four plus they can really other energy use. This is why not think that the very wise way of looking at it and it's it's a hopeful wave, look it's funny that today, kind of even though you're you're you're dealing with statistics and factual information like the fact that is safer to live today. It is less violent crime, it's easier to get by Ozma Technology, more innovation, medical technologies improve radically all these things are true. Peace, I have to say it, not what we wanted to be right. I'm not saying of the world, but we have to say that even new like, even though your women like it's it's, the way
worry about people barking at you so worried He was still terrible in parts of the world. It's terrible from people have color. It still terrible for transit till I get it, you're gonna get it no in saying that there is no room for improvement, but you have to say that again even though you felt compelled you like it still not perfect and I wonder why so so controversial. I think it's important to learn from the things that we do well and then apply that I don't think it is. There are controversial. It's a trick, I think, there's just a lot of people looking for every single opportunity that complain even the someone like you harassing objectively done nothing but good. You say why and like what mean Steven Pinker, took a ton of he by or saying that an even though he is talking about actual scientific statistics is just sang the world's perfect and everyone should shut up. What he is saying is we should look at this. You know from now
its I've. You look down and understand that, although there is much work to be done, we are in a great place In comparison, the rest of human history and its its helpful to realise that progress is possible. Just imagine that every there's something that feels intuitively right as if every step forward would also have to equal step backwards elsewhere, yeah- and I don't think that was the case- there's plenty of things that you can invent that that our are not that, and we see it
for example, with with carbon right now that there are countries where, like Sweden, GDP has grown a lot passed twenty years, carbon emissions has gone down, so they call it the decoupling, and I think once really that the main challenge in in this century is to decouple human progress from from those negative side effects on the way to do. That is not reactionary. It's really again through innovation and through to collaboration. I agree with you and I think the allows us he will just assume that this is these are the consequences of innovation, there's a protocol and everything because there has been so many things to happen. So many things in our inventions where there are prone to contract, but that does not necessarily mean that has to be that way, no one, even if things have
O Connor doesn't mean the pros as big as the Con Russell and if that would be the case, All the technology, everything out would be neutral and I wouldn't man would mean to watch you events, but it would mean that An atomic bomb is morally as neutral as an ocean cleanup system, which I just don't find plausible side where I believe that inventors entrepreneurs they put certain morality into their creation into their technology. There is, there is a certain use that you prescribed with their invention, you dont use nuclear bombs to wash your car right away. You use it not for benign uses, unless maybe you want to terrify Mars, which some people proposal with atomic bombs. I dunno this good at it.
But I dont think technology is neutral that it has emerged morality. So what that means is that, as long as we consequent consistently develop net positive technologies. Financially the world does get better and better. If I say it in on it is sixty percent goods. Maybe has forty percent downside an ok, but then we can invent a solution for that. Forty percent- and maybe that's again that positive- and you can't get this this cascade of of ever improving what knight, I think, what you say and sounds beautiful and if more people thought the way you're thinking. I think world, be a better place on like the the positivity. I liked the optimism in what you think and in terms of particular in terms of what's what's possible with innovation yeah, but I just don't think that being
Then something is very productive. It doesn't really move us forward so rather than your protest against two things that I don't agree with and personally things that I don't agree with. But again I don't think it's very helpful, then doing that might rather built towards a future that I do agree with. You listen man. I think what you say is very, very logical, on which more people thought like you, a great role model for a lot of kids stood views your energy in a positive direction can make and be done yeah sure mean I think we agree with her yeah. Do you think that I mean when, when you're looking at this this possible? are you getting, fifty percent of the oceans garbage out in five years time
that's realistic in terms of like the resources that you have, the funding that you have all the stuff and if not, how can people have sir. I do have a website where people can now yeah so that definitely we don't get have both a week without that technology ready yet too to really cleared the patch. The reverse is different story. We were really ready to scale, but on the ocean we still need some need some iteration and, of course, the funding isn't there yet so, of course website the ocean clean up that come people can donate pure. Can also can call their ghosts. Port the clean up there, and so you have. Is it like pay power? What is there anything you want and you can make you can join the queue for for the products that that's excellent, beautiful and so
How, then, are you getting a lot of success with that people are contributing so deftly so far has been enough to keep the keep their development going, so hasn't really being the limiting factor. But, of course, if we want to scale we're going to need a lot more resource that, sir, definitely love help will be, will be required they're years. It's amazing that this is taking you so long and even work, not so hard that you, you have all this energy to be. The pursuit of light. This mean it was. For a why you're doing this really Jesus Christ, unknown plan can be it will do this as is sustainable with this every day, no days off, constant yeah, so produce should take,
is that how you earlier this year has been tat. You feel guilty if you take time off yeah I'll bet here, so you should feel that, with a lot of my its brief the case where We want that lot of my strength or, at the same time also my weakness it so, I think, a very creative goods, but at the same time it means that really have to force myself to not be distracted by new ideas. I think I have a good work ethic that that now that the downside is that it's also very hard to slow down- and I do realise that taking taking breaks it is eventually it is better. It does the best ideas that I've had were during during times of really even the ocean clear by dear, was sixteen.
Was scuba. Diving in Greece are more passive. Officially are those during during a break. Sir said I actually take a few days. Yeah man school now go where we can just take a few naps. Lacks recharge teachers. System back online. Perfectly though I one sign to make, is that no, everything that I've ever done in my life has been very upset about it and when it is something that you cannot really stop thinking about it, it's it does it never really feels like work either. So it SAM.
Add a calling work which is wouldn't be able to imagine is having a normal job, doing something you're, not passionate about some. So so I'd never worry about how how miserable would it be too just be in an office and have to stare at the clock waiting for six p m to you can go home it must be like my biggest nightmare for a lot of people is alive. I don't mean to offend Fedex
Why here? But you be a nice again guaranteed by now. I agree with you. I understand Agri sang and then people don't realize that the biggest asset they have in their life, as is their time in two to spend that wisely. They have this this eighty thousand hours of which I believe is forty. Forty years forty hours, a week's turns out that's eighty thousand hours that you can use for anything, and I do believe that people often have a lot more potential them than what they turn to be doing if they, if they were to realise how viable, but time is
so the classic model, also for more more wealthy people, is too to work very hard and then to kind of donate here and there. But probably you could be a lot more effective if you were to just use your brain use your time directly on working, something that that watching what you just said is like legitimate inspiration, and talk. You know, there's a lot of people that shall write a book you should. What do you mean just a video or think is good enough. Just to video you explaining your philosophy. You have accomplished so much in your idea. You're the wood you're doing so, noble and actually effective, there's some. Thing that people need to hear some times about different peoples philosophies and how to spend their time in their energy and your your perception of instead of wasting it on other things, is concentrate on something that you think is going to make an impact, something that you are drawn to something then
and yet when you do that, then you have a cause, and you have a thing that you working towards this, not just simply showing. Been doing something in someone's paying you to do that you don't necessarily want to do, which is a lot of a trap, a people themselves in their trap in it. They need to hear people like you talk. Sometimes that's that it's as inspirational as anyone whose professional in spring national or motivational speaker for a lot of folks, maybe more so casually doing something yeah pretty my my words carry more credibility once the oceans are actually clean. Yeah it'll help But just the fact to get us to cargo holds filled with two cargo containers mean who the fuck is that no one, you know, come a little, have some bags here and on the rivers. We pray that amount every Dana, Whaley every day in the rivers, while did the river, when you see that horrible pollution drifting down river, When you see that stop cuz, I feel almost like impossible.
Capture of it or for pointless cost, but the throne? And then there are the four? That's it that's the thing. So we don't position this these interceptors as being the solution, the ultimate solution for no less than that, of course, eventually have to make sure, plus it doesn't end up in the ocean or in the rivers in the first place rights. But I was standing a few weeks ago was in in Indonesia, Malaysia to see their machines and talk with your government people there and I was standing on the interceptor, and you see this constant literary torrent of plastic. Going into the interceptor and from an I was king upstream screaming every ice, there's this more than five million people living in the catchment area of this river and they have limited infrastructure they costume. So much and.
Just trying to imagine all that plastic not ending up in the river with, but such a diffuse source, five million people was just so hard to imagine and of course that's where we have to go to, but realistically speaking it is going to take. This is going to take a walk so to take maybe two decades three decades somewhere that so I think, rather than kind of staring at the perfect solution and really just working on that, which Chris is very important? I think we also need to be more pragmatic and also realise what may be made to take ten thirty years, let's at least make sure that during those twenty three years we don't have ten million killers of classic flowing out of this river in the ocean. So you'd have to have some sort of cooperation with people are doing
shocking that plastic in the river. So so suddenly, Donna figure out a way to get to them site. I do hope that the interceptors can have positive influence dream as well for people say the word about they're thing now, yeah the best places throw your plastic as they gotta things. Guilt, free dumping now that that hazardous copy, that risk is called a moral hazard to phrase from economics wherein now an inch earns. Industry is kind of a thing where people make more damage once there and she, because in rise worried, I don't buy it that much is an argument for four for the plastic problem, because it's not like it's its content
cost benefit analysis. Where are you going to throw something on the street or not? Is moreover unconscious thing? You just do it right, or at least I hope you don't, but some people do and and then with that same logic, why maybe penalties should also stop sweeping the streets. And maybe we shouldn't even collect garbage at people's houses because incentivizes, the creation of garbage. So I dont think that you don't know and then there's disorder effect caught the broken winded effect, which were, I think it was back in the sixties in New York. What they found that in streets neighborhood, where you have buildings that show obvious sign up.
Kay like come broken with broken. That's where the name comes from broken windows or later, but actually would incentivize other unlawful activity, so the similar effect has been observed with a car for park. Doesn't have any litter people litter less than when there is little on the ground. So so right, I think, is the opposite. If you hit We believe that the ocean is going to be polluted forever and. It doesn't really matter thirty dirty That's not ready a strong motivation to two not later, but if you say, okay well, ocean is clean. Now d, love effort for that, and it wants ones as clean. I think that would actually be a motivation two hundred and twenty two, not better. I think you're one hundred percent right, I think some of those videos we see shorelines that are so thick. I don't know what part of the world it is
that are so thick with plastic. You can't even get into the water like we can't wait out there and swam. Yes, it's so disheartening. In you, you wonder where the world will be, if not for people like you, that is from tranquil to come solution where the word we'll be in fifty years fifty years ago? This wasn't the case now. It is if you could see like a time lapse. Video of these oceans from like go back to nineteen under the two thousand nineteen and then go back, we're. Nineteen hundred does is relatively unchanged for thousands of years right and also this massive change very quickly with the does your yeah. But again, I believe this is a transition phase. It's like are Modern civilization, being in its surf teenage years, and ass. We have to grow out of sure, agree more. I hope I hope this worry that we all have
translate into improvement in progress and I would say the same thing that were in some sort of adolescence stage of of society in evolution that we're in this weird sort of state were aware of how much we can change our environment, but also still contributing to the detriment of our environment in a non sustainable way, and then eventually, gonna have to come to a head. You know when you see people screaming about climate change, and all these different things mean this is people realizing. This is this a lot going on that not maybe not everyone is completely and totally aware of, and but I'm with you, I think it's it's good, the optimistic, its healthier to be positive, and I think it is its logical, their people, find a way out of this. I really do yeah. Well, I am not sure whether we'll be right.
Not sure either? I I hope we are, that I think and asked me. I think eventually is going to be fine. It's just a question: how long is it going to take? How much damage will have been done in that period, but realistically it is the only way there is a chance that we feared is outright your face, and the opposition to this anybody thinks is a fruitless idea than another people there were. Actually. I was very short a red people. There were actually happy that your project didn't we the first one, what the fuck man is people that I think it's a young thing, I consider this verily hopeful, young, intelligent guy comes up with a solution.
Browser these over its mark. A vibrant am, I hope it fails, and when it failed, people actually enjoyed it yeah they have such delicate. No. So for me, so yes, of course, since the very since the beginning, twenty thirteen there have been people relatively small, of people that they have been people that have been posing it, and most of them are only enough. Our people that care about the ocean, because they don't fields too bright way to two to tackle the issue and by the way I do with it. Is you and I, it's what I said at the beginning now there for you. There aren't many new arguments anymore, but does better you write them. Every single argument rationally analyze them. No emotions emotions only model, you're you're thinking than that way and make a distinction. Ok, is this something where this person has a points, if so great,
because rather have somebody else pointed out to me than us having to learn it in the field and having having unnecessary failure and if the person doesn't have appointed, if it's just assumption are unfounded or whatever? It is very easy for me to just ignore it, and so and then the Christians. Well, what motivates people to be negative? I think this pretty for reasons. First thoughts. It's no genuine scepticism, whether it can be done, and I think that's that's healthy and think we ve most of those arguments wrong now, but of course there is still the whole scale up thing which we have to do so so bit of that, but it's kind of morphine now too few other things. One thing is human risk perception, which sometimes figures
cause of firm some opposition, where it is very easy for people to ignore the baseline when they look at risk. So you can, for example, say: ok, nuclear power super risky. We shouldn't do that, but then, if you compare it to the baseline of other sources of energy is actually prove that the least risky source of energy there is even solar. Energy is causes more deaths per megawatt, our and then than nuclear power, because people follow roofs. So so it's really so if you ignore the baseline and if you say okay doing this clean up, we shouldn't do it because, there's all these potential risks writer potentially there's some see live that may be card. Potentially there are
these moral hazards. There's all these risks, and basically best thing to do- is not to it. What people, then our ignoring, is served that certain hazard off this hundreds of millions of kilos of plastic- that's already in the ocean and if you were to pose the opposite question to say: ok, So if I were to go to the ocean right now and just dump the equivalent amount of plastic that we were to take out would dump it into the ocean which you, what you think that's a good plan and then probably answers is, is no so so think. There's there's a bit of
this, of course, because what we're doing its new there are risks involved, but as long as we map them well, we take things step by step. I think they're manageable and their deafening, not risks of reasons to do not do it because, of course, the baseline is that there is already doing a lot of harm being done by the states club. So I think that's one argument behind people's opposition There is also better firm, Sera, vertical zero sum game bias where people are saying what we should do this, because the resources would be better spent else, sigh, an opening. Now wires. A few weeks ago when people are saying well or just one person was- was riding where this person said you shouldn't
worry about the plastic pollution initiation do anything about it, because climate change is the biggest issue and our attention should go there principally she's just a distraction and that's foosh. Well yeah. I think there's seven up in peoples in the world, and we can do more than one thing at the same time gather me What should you not wash your dishes, because your carpet is dirty it doesn't make any sense both of a moral problem clean both of em. This does idea that you should only think about climate change, so I dont think about the giant Pacific. Which better choices, biggest taxes. They fuckin serious, DOM argument both of em are important to think about Bolton Report, but A part of writing an article today is writing something that people will get upset about its part of it. Thy generating our reacted. Click bait stuff, having controversial opinions being contrary to all those things are profitable, Today we have a giant part of why people right arm. Do not write articles. It didn't write articles to state in objective wealth
our perspective, always sometimes people. But a lot of times people were makes and click baby bullshit, and they can't twist a story and quit twist Idea of you are twisted to sort of make their narrative make more compelling, be more compelling and bread sell more org click more, yet more add sales. I wonder whether that's impart behind the growing tribalism and polarization say everywhere: social media I mean with it. That is a fact that facebooks algorithms in in a sense support, outrage right leg. These things are designed to support. My friend are issued your tested. This is really interesting because he tested to find out what is it? What is it actually support? What it actually support what you're interested in Europe to me outrage will show you the things it outrage you, so he decided to just only you puppies and that's all You took a charm there's poppies is no, you assholes this way, you're into if you're, into
fucking getting bad about the border and getting mad about the climate and really mad about abortion and getting mad about whatever the fuck is that What it will show you, because that's what you're interested in you know my Youtube's feed is mostly must. No cars and fights wags. That's what I'm interested in homage! That's and occasionally, science things, but that's just because that's what you search for that's it'll, show you what you search for their share, your somewhat happy that it shows you, those things does sure. I don't I don't think it's a sinister as people I want to say it is, I think The issue is human nature, where we are compelled to get upset about things, and I think a lot of it is people that feel disempowered in their own existence. The people that you are talking about that are stuck in cubicles and that are staring at the clock. Waiting the budget arranged. They can go home, similar, align their tweeting the taken, a shit and turning fuck. This guy's cared kid thinks gonna fix this fuckin infection trip this alive,
What's going on is a lot of people that are upset because they just its and to be upset when your life sucks. It's funny shit on somebody. It's funny get mad about the the border when young Levant fuck it sounds a protein or near the border? What're you worried about you what you worry about you just the angry privileges, angry yeah. It's like these aren't logical discussions of people are having their shout offs and hence its export of human nature to get upset about stuff and you know in even someone is doing something as beautiful as your perspective, and are you your your idea instead of just saying? Oh, this is guy doing something amazing when someone like this, whose job asked is innovative and justice aspire to try to tackle this climate issue more people I can. This is amazing instead of that. Just Benny resources incorrectly yeah yeah yeah, Are you talking about
And, yes, I suppose it's from the perspective of the personal rights that sitting she's got a point here and now and then- and indeed, if you just saying what everyone else as nobody would see our opinion exile. That's a big part of their mothers that journalists are fucked right now and it's not their fault. The system, Reprint journalism is almost on the way out in terms of like buying things by newspapers and buying magazines. Their numbers are radically down her, so they resort you are mine things. While they are in the online world, you have so much competition. You have competence. From a million different things that people can choose to look at or reed and to get them to you're a fucking article, you gotta get to have some good and there, so you have to distort you did inflamed? We have to get people polarize, gotta get out of sat a paint, a picture that
eggs. You want to click on their like. What is he doing that fuckin idiots wasted charm trying to pull truck, doesn't know what glapthorne burgers? By saying, how dare you there That's what's going on you now, but it's it's just a fund weird time for humans, in others a lot of negative things, but there's also a lot of positive things itself. Fun. Weird time is a lot going on and it's happening very very very quickly and the prognostic it is, the people are trying to prove have some sort of an idea worth going. No one really knows and change just happening. It's such a rapid pace. Scares everybody looking to find things and then looking for control and looking to be the person whose guide figured out because nobody's gonna figured out its madness to earth is heeding the Fuckin ice caps are melting. The fish disappearing. People are and dolphins its madness, its mandate,
the second garbage patches grow and grow a groan, and if it wasn't for someone like you, whose actually acting in doing something about it, just get worse, you have a workable solution, should be applauded. Yeah fuck, a guy you heard me by Jimmy the study that guy are, furthermore rare, Jimmy Glass consent. As for yes, consensus is fuck that guy, but but doesn't great click so may we lacked eyes on trying to maritime and living or she or there are they the charming living. In our mean, I don't understand it's like in this day and age that you have. Two things have been right about so right about things, and it may not necessarily be honest. So how do you incentivize the truth? Let's crash
I guess again, I think we're in this transitional phase, and I also think technology is going to make a lot of what were concentrating on obsolete, I think what we are really really close to some crazy breakthroughs in terms of distribution of information. That's gonna make it obsolete and people Can I care much about click baby things, because you know you gonna be able to feel things from digitally created media when they were very, very close to augmented reality becoming and an essential part of people's lives. In the same way, your phone has become an essential part of your life. Twenty years ago, known, carried a phone around those very rare, and even then you know tonight nine mean a small percentage. People have phones on them. Now. It's a hundred percent right all this
death is happening at this exponentially increasing rate when they implement augmented reality. Who is telling us that apples like somewhere around twenty twenty one man, I've been I've been looking at up and at once or twice deftly did Movin you but some other folks brought up to that apples really close. And they are there in the process right now developing some sort of August did reality. Goggles and they'll be like glasses, like you know, you put on pair of just like this. But you'll be seeing these things in front of you. You ll be able to move them around. You re able to see navigation. Turn it on and off a prior work on Syria. We will talk to it and you're gonna be able to get video and information. Written was podcast all these things, music. It's gonna come through this and
Probably this is one step in this ever increasing trend of us getting further and further immersed in technology, and mounted. Reality will lead to some sort of impossible The determined virtual reality worth indistinguishable from regular reality. More we're like like fifty years away from literally being in the matrix. Yes up, so I think it's under appreciated how much our behaviour is also guided by technology. I mean, of course, River Jane surgeon. Type which lies at the most fundamental level of how our behaviors are formed. That's why there is such a thing is, is human nature, but then there is this whole turf cultural layer, but that, but we humans created around us, which
I gotta tell us where maybe other people have different names for it, but it's indeed everything ready. We, we interact with some thirty thousand invention, Sir thirty thousand technologies through our entire lives. That's a huge amount, and I think that environment that shapes your behavior. It decides what kind of bit genes are are expressed, and the interesting thing is that it's not just the natural environment but isn't environment we create so so probably
Now, when you think about people being born thousands of years ago, their genes were very very similar to the people today, yet how they behave is completely different to look again at violets, and why is that the case? It's thanks to these inventions, not just physical adventures, but also cultural inventions and institutions that we created that shapes our behaviour, and probably no human nature is the human behavior is very hard to change. Unless
So there are clearly benefits. What will we do? Look at your smartphones, how fast that happened versus how long it takes for smoking two to go away. One is one: is kind of incentive rising the continued use of it through addictive products while with with smartphones again, it's it's something that you you want to you so so I just wonder whether, here that interaction between humans and the technology that we create, can invent incentivize inventors to become morally better
better because they d lose me already or no do not yet know. So. The question is who people incentivize primarily by profit right, but the behaviour of the people express is scan if shaped by, but what the eleven and who knows, be a person today is, is more isn't device to to do good things because of the environment that has been created rather than a thousand years ago. Now. I think, that's absolutely the case, and I hope that people's a building express themselves through social media. Are those often negative in bitchy times also, can give you a sense of the moral landscape of the culture I could not just people on the far fringes that are the most angry and vehement about things, but people that have objective real right
National thoughts like the the The fact that you were able to read that article an object doubly assess whether not someone has any good point or not, and we get I'll. Do that about everything you know. If people have that sort of personnel instead of being so reactionary, instead of being so angry about things, just look It criticisms legal possibilities. Look at all these different. And then shape technology to fit within our ethical and moral boundaries. So there's partners and also there is very profitable right because of his things don't feel if you never get guilty feeling about buying some like never Tom, I get a plastic stronger, feel guilty right. If there is something that you there but where they innovate to the point where you don't feel guilty supporting products, and you found this company has the same sort of ethics and ideas that you have that's all good and I think we're moving more towards that, but again
We're dealing with a very short window of time were. Human beings have had to adapt this and credible change takes place during a small bearded time. Yeah, it's kind of them. There were one, To look at problems. Is that it's kind of this chasm between human true human behaviour and how we want the world to be, and indeed social media is that the case
Similarly for environmental problems, we humans are driven by certain things in the self interest: stiffly big part of it, and yet that's not creating the world right now that that we want to live and because the detectives here, the technology that is the interface between the world's Serbs, are of nature and in human nature. That interface is not compatible with both. So you either have something that's compatible with human nature. So it's like a big car with a visa engine, but that's not compatible with with nature or Yes, something that's compatible with nature, which is free working, but it's not really compatible with human nature, because, where lazy ingredient cold outside in the Iliad sailor and a snowstorm vaguely, so ideally
we do is rather than trying to change. Human switch, don't think is very few to activity, because there is such a thing as your nature. We have genes of this evolutionary history rather than trying to change that. I think is much more effective to change the the technology around us that enables are our inner desires and behaviors too. Be positive rather than the negative. I agree with you. I think it can be difficult, though, to get that same sort of positive result When it comes to our addiction to technology our addiction to smart phones and particular me for it time oversight, televisions right, like people talked about how much care watch to re kids watch tv eight hours a day, it so much so bad you're, really heard anymore about phone. And this is a sort of an and disgust rapid shift
in what we waste our time doing and most of it is what you hear people talking about and most of the use of these phones. I wouldn't I'd, be willing to bet, I am shocked that Social media- yes right, yeah, I suppose that's again, this serve infantile state, of that technology has now infant how's, adolescent, Bolivia, and so I think, you're right. It's it's again Probably we can engineer so for media and are emission technology to incentivize people to do good things. But indeed now it's it's pretty into devising the use of scrawling through timelines, because you watch more at. I also, I think, it's our bodies and our minds and the way we view the world its work not designed to live in did around. This is a com,
lately new thing for the species, and I think we don't really know how to handle the dopamine rush that we get from clicking on instead ground scrolling through your feeds and checking your d AMS and reading your emails and constantly interacting with people and checking detection back already say: oh well, that's interesting what it is in that this now you just all day all day, interacting with some digital device. We're not made for this we're supposed to go outside and then you have bright engineers, somewhere big shiny building a b testing all day to see whether no aurettes dots on a certain icon in the social media up makes people click more or less than that's who instruments common dabbling with this idea of taking with alikes I could have. We just didn't. Show pneumonia likes, you don't normally likes you get he put up a picture system. Can picture move on now you put up a bit.
He got seventy thousand likes for that picture. What the fuck the czech checking hourly. Seventy four thousand scorn viral death. That's where that likes thing is one of the weirdest drugs Nobody saw a common and People get addicted to outside things that get likes right. Pudding thing! other socially conscious to let every we're. No, let everybody now how virtuous, you are an exact likes. Catholics and it's making use of. I suppose the flaws over even if what I'm worried, it is a wonder, those likes will actually be a physical feeling. I, u like oh George, George, ah, engineer the system to get you to seek those constant love jolts. If one I mean a thick,
If they're gonna give you are granted reality, we are how many generations I don't know away from something something being imbedded in your body right people we decided to do that is some guy, girl invented a fuckin test. Tesla model three key arm so that they didn't. Ever have to have their key in their pocket that you to walk up so Tesla and the fucking door unlocks way. Does it climb. Sulphur updates She doesn't work anymore about using cut you open. Like a fish, I mean what the fuck are, people doing, other people at the fringes. They are the first just but there's more than any thinking if they make it more, they make it simple. We'll get a network of what a flu shot bear. It is and I wonder whether in any sort of innate. Fair or aversion towards crossing that's interior, exterior,
boundary with technology. There's a good way. Looking right, like with his fair, is it fair you agree to do it like look is a fair. If you decide to get a face tattoo too, if you'd, if it's up to you man, If it's fair, if so, I gave my credit card but he told me that Gimme, ten percent off by stick this. You know this. Credit card chip under skin somewhere. Yes, I suppose, if you again, incentivize it with firm with selfish interests yeah. It will take up there's that, and there is also the big concerns. What, if the gentlemen. We're talking about income inequality in this world, a big one, would be what, if there's a jump that you can make in enlightened men in intelligence, access to information, number crunching, the ability to assess risk verses reward? This is all done
pewter wise and its lights done through some sort of additional piece of hardware. Give you are and put your body, but right costs a lot of money, so the people they can or initially are the people that are valued. They have much money in the first place to the wealthy people already does is very valuable, Then the people that really need it they can afford it So by the time it some to every other monies gone, everybody. Chewed it all up. Everybody's figured out how to hack the system is become a writer for black mare seem essential. Partner. Absurd seems a good work right yeah Well, that's what people worried about when it comes to longevity to write their worried about technological, innovations and are allowed people to National Barton, all sorts different, weird, can a repair cells and allowed to live for extended periods of time. But then, who are these people going to be You gonna be the king class in oh other gonna, be this super duper wealthy people
of the future that are going to hold this over the poor. Folks. Can afford the technology yeah So a truly things like the the technique is that we're developing aren't that looked at least are not too far away. Are our institutions aren't ready yet too to recover? Does because definitely that would be probably increase quality toilet. Yes, that that is one of the major concerns when it comes to this sort of rapid change were facing ruin you know. Another one, of course, is artificial intelligence is there's people that I respect very, very much that have very negative view of what the future of artificial technology is going to mean to the human race, unembarrassed Ilan ALARM Bottom scared, the shit out of me every time I talk about it, yet
I'm SAM salmon, I didn't episode and I were he talked about artificial intelligence and the rise of the fact that once its uncorked thrilling not gonna, be able to be put back in the bottle and We talk about like an hour and a half and after it was over, rested, dams, bummed out circles like this is another. Yes, so the present have a very suppose, very optimistic and pessimistic view of technology. At the same time, I think a one and it allows us to improve the one. That's what we see minutes its gradual continues, probably because people want to solve their own problems and with that inadvertently solve other people's problems that progress. Happens, I believe, but then, at the same time, while the world is getting better, it's also getting risk. Here I mean
two thousand years ago, or maybe even two hundred years ago, there was no way to wipeout humanity to simply wasn't few. Even if you wanted to happen fruit very badly, you could scream wouldn't happen although there are actually people, have the power to do that and rapidly, but get the whole of humanity can be wiped out in a day yeah, and now it's for just a few People would imagine if that goes for a few people to quite a few corporations to maybe right, raven everyone. I think, there's a there's a sum. Is this. Your brain teaser are meant to experiment that make Ostrom came up with that says. Well, what if you could have Canada's atomic bomb that you could just make yourself in your microwave Well, maybe someone it I'm just not be economically feasible, anymore, to rebuild cities, busiest
some new, modern analogy. Rinaldo gone so I did, I said so in one hand and said I think that's kind of the this, this the scary risky aspect of it, but at the same time, when you think of it, I would much rather trusts are entrusting an average person today with the button for nuclear. Definition, detonation device. Then somebody a thousand years ago ashore on one, the Mongols or someone. Some savage jurassic- let's do it. Nigger Rostrum threeg me outline what we a conversation about probability of life. Being simulation has very high, probability is more problem. We're in a simulation now than when not mine- puny monkey burning to some logic. Yes, that's that's! Where gets weird, we deal with the
the number of potential civilizations out there, the number of human beings, the amount of time that life has had a chance to evolve. Not here, but everywhere in the entire universe, where the possibilities simulation, has occurred, already re high, with the civilities. It we're in a simulation right now also pretty high, simply because there is only one day: layered ass, inhalation, so yeah. Also life seems fake right. It seems weird see there's so much of it. That seems like boy. This is a few weeks ago. I saw a duck in upon just make an infinite circles. That's definitely lit the someone needs to fix the code evacuation, yeah side. Of course, the rights lots of fun give other things, but in reality the twenty first, but the depressing.
That will likely never know. Maybe maybe one time somebody will fit fair the solution in this just Toby in view of the futures. It's me again. I get that perspective. I get the disturbing perspective. But right now, as we said, like you know, according to pinker, current statistics. Things are really better than they ve been before. Then My concern is that my kids, and is one of the things that you answer. The worthy biological bootloader artificial life mean look when a canopy. Makes a cocoon it does no the fuck it's doing it just does it, makes a cocoon because a butterfly we know whereby buying the Iphone thirty six and the cyber trucks and in trying to get a solar powered plain, went off the ground. We will probably giving in to this thing with this,
What we have right now is more than sufficient for survival. If we just decided, if we got all the people in the world say: hey, watches we make washes its key, perfect time, computers, they get online gray, you can download Youtube videos, cameras their view, clear they take very clear picture, set, Highgate TVS, look great, everything looks great in speeds pretty I can good man special five g. Let's stop everybody stop stop stop Megan stuff stop budget. Everything we have right now, just keep making it no, no new innovation was just enjoy life together. That's like it's. That sounds so logical but yet also so ridiculous, like no one's gonna, greeted that no Very I formed thirty seconds already in production. Rich is gonna better and faster. It's gonna wraparound you dick and keep you comfort at night. They gonna fix
you're out better stuff, no matter what forever it's part of what makes people people. Now we have this unquenchable thirst for innovation and that's why the weird things it freaks out about this move towards technology? Is that materialism, which seems to be this like really standard behaviour with a giant percentage of the population like people of really into things and desire to have the new is greatest. Things is what propels innovation, because a financial incentive because people are making money of selling you these better watch is that you don't really need or these better cars and is better computers, always Theseus keep getting better and better and better and better, and a lot of it is fuelled by this week. Your desire. The people have for stuff which does make any sense like where that come from, or that might be the stuff that makes
the caterpillar make the cocoon is prodigious making use of the same biological mechanisms as social media credits. You feel like you need it Rex little tricks annexing you. Now they go listen. We have two options: either we let artificial life? Take over and be the superior life form or we merge. Let's just managed to make friends make friends with artificial intelligence takers. Shit boil were so pretty if it's possible in it likely is. I pray pretty inevitable that it's going to happen if it was Edison that said, that term never invented anything. I just took elements of was their product decoders look better than I am paraphrasing now, but it's kind of
If it's possible it's kind of gas, their rights as the airy invented ever? Yes, you just have to discover it Marcia, so surprised. It's going to happen, though. What does give me hope is that to my point, if the nuclear detonator does, years ago. For this now it seems like we are getting more responsible and our ability to foresee the future allows us to invent things, but it also allows us to try to think about the risks and to try and mitigate the wrist before they they happen, and I don't think there's nearly enough enough attention given to these existential risks. But the fact that some people are thinking about it
it's some kind of hopeful nor I agree, I really do and imposing these things about this disturbing potential future discuss It is probable that we should think about, but I am hopeful that as acknowledging improves our understanding of humans improves along with it, and that an, and also that perhaps some technology. Like I'm, not exactly sure what neural length. Thing is with IRAN that these coming up with what I think something some of it has to do with a much more rapid access to information, that has to do with increasing bandwidth, yeah increase bandwidth. Hopefully that will become. I mean I want to say hopefully some fuckin wires sticking. Your brain will become standard because it seems it seems like we are most. Let me, then, is merging right. That's that's! That's the merge with technology, from a clue. In said the grazing weather said here
beings, sex organs of the machine world. What a great quote Riah As calls you just go blow thought It is exactly what it is. The machine world can make itself needs us like if we you make artificial life and Mcluhan. I think roads to add an US sixties. I think that's from what was the book is he's got a book media something, but what is about Marshall, Mcluhan so said, Sir, it's a broader point that our understanding and media Irma understanding media. That's it for yeah. Nineteen. Sixty four magic that guy called it and sixty four. So so definitely it's it's a broader point, love people make and that we are in a way enslaved by our technology in it
in the book sapiens by Harare. Yeah report makes the point about green enslaving. Us because ass be agriculture revolution ten thousand years ago today, the we didn't really become better. According to him, it was less nutritious. It was. I was just so bourse way of living them, the hunter gatherer, as did but it was very good for the population of grain, and there is no way back for us. So I suppose that's the thing with all our invention today that there are these these lock, in effect, that can kind of,
Look as into an inferior position, yeah, yeah soaps and, of course, the risk with artificial intelligence is that a similar thing happens and that's not very benign and within it, foresee those conflict consequences that we. Be locked in in the year twenty sixty five, it's one of the more fastening things about people, though, that we have the ability to contemplate the possibilities that we have the ability to look at this, and what are we doing here hold on. Our making a mistake here, look look. What we got us doing like rice has got us doing: God dammit, looking much people there are in the city of so many people in the city. What we're gonna vetoes people shit, We didn't think it s, equity, kept breeding, and you know that's the big concern when people start developing into into new
various peoples are expanding the technological or that the rather societal sprawl. When you see these urban sprawl just slowly encroaching on new land rent and pushing out into areas where there is no houses before, as always, For me, when I drive by a place, I come bolder. Colorado is a really good job of limiting the amount of construction that gets done there relative pretty fierce about it. Even they have been sort of lightning up a little things have been getting built in every now and then I'll drive by like of em in Colorado. My oh, that was therefore now is there things, it's harmless, no big deal new building used to be an open field, who's that helping On helping anyone in another building outside of that another, and then you know you could the ability to look in time? Fifty years nights you see this.
Spread where this weird ward of humanity s starts moving across the globe. This Kofi churn, Google MAPS where you can have five or Google Earth where you can have time lapses from sunlight photos past six years forever. You look do by thirty years ago. Nothing in this revised a crazy example. That's crazy example: that places so strange, thick, less vague, earthen sterile. It's the last four years on steroids, with its own islands man made islands, the shape of the world like all the different continents, world the scene and is not doing legacy, some of that. Apparently they have to like keep adjusting the tide rises and in a pretty them actually Is this the Google MAPS they out another one, but is another one? by saying this in its happening so vast how many years as a spanning twenty, oh, my god, it's amazing
so the am anxious, as some of our engineers used to work for the treasure, and they should help build the the poem violence and pretty problem is that the water doesn't really move in the arms of the palm. So can I get stinky in our view, this prime real estate- that's just stinks, oh no, really make sense of the water between it would did stale. Of course, that makes sense for this Bonkers videos bunker if their actual There is the there. That's the thing so all that water inside yeah doesn't get recycled, doesn't move around the fact that they have to do that to me The like an ocean break right about that water from smashing into it likely outside room, you can just pump everything. So now, what do they do with others thank you, water. He just accept it could question the fuckin worlds
This building is Bah Nan us right, nothing! You I've seen pictures the people taken from the top floor. It doesn't similar real. I call you letters. You need to go to Dubai data there. Illiteracy the curve, and when you stand its foot they because of its shape, it looks they even Can you see the curve from other sea of thumb? No two things nothing so on an airplane. You can't either you can kinds, that's true. A high and this year yeah the Abbe weigh up pray. Would you no one else. Virgins trips they do virgin spaceship fly. Of the earth in Luanda. There is some good safety statistics right. You fucked early, adopting yeah spray, not good to be early adapter, the space area worker cycles and want to be on that first flight was Richard, would have to go and one of the first one
himself right off. I was him. I would clone a fake me on that sea of their bit blows. I wouldn't trust and double. What is this Jamie is this for, I could say again, Vertigo just looking down. I'm freaking out I get likely get. This is go pro. So this is what would flatterers used to show that the earth is actually flat. It's the perspective shift, but just the height of that goddamn thing makes my palm sweat was there last year and it was somebody sticking her phone out of the nuts level. Yes, now young people are crazy. Yes, how did she dropped it and it fell and just went right through someone's falling ahead, like literally like a missile bring in your head, but just explode humanitarian, hidden ahead with a cell phone from a mile up mother fucker, that's mother, Fucker paper, so crazy.
Gabriel Journey down. It would take so long. To put the word burst mode whom he has a new perspective the tradition have Oda alarm. That goes often, someone drop something. So I can clearly hit alarm and by the time it hits the bottom of the bottom. Finally, a bad bad. They get our back away from the building. Is Gazprom the tip top notion the fuck up. Oh my god or hanging on to look at me like these guys this kid's with this Alex. I was down crazy to write you both fucking nuts. Did my hands are sweating right now I can't handle these. That do that we have had on James Courage with a k e do Kinmen King James, the guy does those so thing right,
The key does these videos from these working places. Kingston. Thank you sergeant. If America, I wonder why we know he's he lives in England, He takes these videos. Words like hanging on by one hand with a fuckin selfie step. Yes, looking down on this giant skyscrapers and an sweats our hard just watching knows. I can't imagine us actually doing that. What a terrible, an instinct or a terrible thing that have to be. When you see people hang onto something your hand, sweat oh dear hands, sweat when you re not helping you that's the worst thing that could happen. Is your hands get also every fuck man channeling secure recently had an accident video post September, eleven says the day nearly died and he's got a big old like Stitches gas: while we talk to him about that when it was on the part of those who think about that,
but he's come locked into that now. You sort of married to this idea that you know you're. The goes up there and does that you can't say: well, I've done it. No more like the green you select, grain he's married to thrill well Alex handled is the best example that right he's this free solo, guy, free, solar climate Gozo, El Capitan, with no ropes its did you watch yeah? I guess if the house, an item on the past couple times, he freaks me out donors and how we can do it. I get idea, I get it. I get. That's this time passionate about it again swear. Her hands or social Eddie. It's a weird the people do when they try to activate their adrenaline glance in only try to activate their thrill gland rat yeah. I spectrum is its passionately. He follows assassination. Some people. Claim the ocean
so they climb forty five degree angle backwards. What s eyes were mountain wouldn't want to assembly, but no right tat? It looks like he might have stop doing that. I mean the instant he might be getting paid a soldier like a stunt person for movies, because you did one for a movie recently, but he has a video from their seriousness as a Youtube demonetized. Videos need just as bit boasting car stuff, you too, as demonetized videos, water, they don't want. Incentivize. Why that's interesting is that a video explaining agar probably talk about basic end of climbing you two demonetized me August. My second that's interesting, interesting. Her be more realistic.
Yeah, but here's the thing they demonetized, but yet they still have it up and they still have an algorithm little cook you after his video and suggest a bunch of other shit, they're gonna monetize, but it might not have ads on it write. His video absurd doesn't have ads on a, but that doesn't mean it's not that effectively a part of their system like that. That sort of that's its revenue, because you know they're going to recommend a bunch of videos that do have an you gonna keep clicking. I think there are as far as Youtube stances dislike if an advertiser solve their out on this video, be a part of that. While I think also from Youtube's perspective, almost always illegal. The point that I think that's a big one like
think you could do illegal shit on Youtube and get money off than them. They would be responsible and some sort of aware right. I can accept boy- am we're over your fixing. The world did done anything else, tweet covered all. Basically, things are so course character of come. We want our ocean clean up the ocean, Indian Ocean, the ocean clean up dot com people. Please Yes go there and help where it will help to we'd love to Contribute love to be a part of this, for sure is anything else we can do, there's anything you need promoted or in one of their people. Now we ve happened help. Thank you thanks for being you man, thanks for inventing this and thanks for pursuing this so doggedly and have being so obsessed with what is incredibly worthy cause, privilege, man think so much my pleasure, I buy it so thank you, everybody
tuning in to the mother. I can show and thank you too, policy genius policy genius. Folks, the holidays are here, get that life insurance under wraps be a grown up good apart see genius dot com today, and You can get started minutes policy genius when it comes so life insurance, it's nice to get it right! Policy genius dotcom! Go there. Be damned grown up boys who were also to you by brave the web browser We imagine get out of damn surveillance economy you don't need to be used in that you don't need to be given for October. That start using brave listeners, cast switch to brave today, go to brave Calm, Slash, Rogan and switch. Now. That's brave dot com ash, Rogan and switch to brave. Today, brave yesterday was about big tech about
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Transcript generated on 2019-12-21.