« The Joe Rogan Experience

#1442 - Shannon O'Loughlin

2020-03-17 | 🔗
Shannon O'Loughlin is the Executive Director and attorney for the Association on American Indian Affairs, and she is also a citizen of the Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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It's it's weird out. There we are in the middle of the corona virus pandemic CALM shut down, Improv shut down, most most people's tours shut down. Today, restaurants, shut down, Jim's a shot down, bars or shut down. The part gas rolls on if you ve noticed I have had a obsession lately with native american history and native Americans in this country, and I brought in some one to help me with this, and her name is Shannon aloft. Lynn, and Shannon O'Loughlin. She works with the association on merit. In indian affairs and She's, executive, director, and she came in here today to educators and to give us some insight as to what it's like to be united
mark country in the history and the problems in the trials that they face It was very illuminating and eye opening and are really really appreciate her time. So please welcome channel Nothin the job will gain experience, pollution problem, I'm doing How you in here presume this is incredible! Opportunity, I'm glad you you're interested in the subjective. American indian history and am glad to be here to talk about it. I'm glad you won't come here. Yeah became fascinated when I well. I've always been sort of peripherally interested, but never- really delved into it. Until I read empire the Summer Moon and then you now have you read that asked she Glens book about Comanches and no doubt the Texas Rangers and it's such a crazy story
I just became obsessed, and then I read some of the morning star and then I read black Elk. The black outcome was particularly fascinating to me because it details life before like before they killed Custer to living our reservations to the desperation I watch it boy get start tell people what you are, who you are and what you do. So. My name is Shannon Laughlin I'm citizen of the Chalk Donation of Oklahoma. I've been practicing attorney sense about two thousand one, and I am currently the negative director and attorney for the association on American Indian Affairs, where the oldest non profit serving indian country. We ve been around since nineteen twenty two arrived and dug. We should tell people if you listen this in the few sure this is all going on right now what The United States is going through one of the key
virus times ever in terms of dealing with a virus. Jim's are sort of on locked down. All Jim's are closed comedy, shows, are closed or concerts, are closed, clubs bars, everything's closed and someplace, restricting travel and it it it's. It's interesting to me that Zog going on. We ve never had the experiences before, but it makes me think of what happens when happen when the Europeans first came to North America and encountered the native Americans and they didn't have any immunity to all these diseases that the Europeans are bringing over and in cases wiped out as much as ninety percent of the people that we're living here that we're still here, you have we would have only shut the borders about five hundred fifty years ago. We would you have yellow Trump,
tromp. Indian back to what we want to build walls around everywhere, it's not get their yellow, But it is only really. It still remains one of the biggest times in human history. Where, if you talk about the Europeans coming to North America, and what would happen to the native Americans just from diseases minutes it's one of the biggest genocides in history not now when you talk about ninety percent of our population wiped out by design minutes almost honest hospital genocide. I didn't happen because of the disease the disease did The disease is dead, but the Essendean policy that continues today the gin It happened through. U S, indian policy that continues today, the genocide. It is ongoing. So this is not something from the past. This is something that continues today that we still our work.
The fight against that's, why be my organization? Is here right? That's that's absolutely true! I just, was getting into the over how crazy is now it's fine. I want you to talk about everything you wanna talk about, but so let's go. Let's go to that that, since this is what The United States is very strange situation with native Americans. Were native Americans have reservations and on those reservations they have sovereignty. They can they have different rules that can do what it wants. First strange as actors nations inside of our nation, like how do you feel about that? So it's a system, that's been imposed by I may be. The best way to start is kind of start with the beginning, like how did pouted. How did we get to where we are today there? food and there is a lot of information, and so you gotta
not me. If I start getting too carried away, all right, no work. We have plenty of time and a lot of interests. I worry about that so, there are three Supreme Court cases that happened in the eighteen, hundreds, and there was a justice named John Marshall, who was actually buying India land from from. U s the? U S, government, through? U S grants and So he was interest. He was an interested party, but here making decisions that that set forward the kind of watershed principles that continued a fact. Who native Americans and indignation governments are today and so those three cases. The first one was called Johnson, be Mcintosh and it was an eighteen. Twenty three it didn't involve. Any Indians was now on Indians coming to court to try to determine who owned a piece of land in Indiana,
and there was one guy Johnson who was a plaintive who had purchased the land directly from the pink Shaw. Indians were related to the Miami tribe today and then the defendant was Mcintosh and he purchased land from the. U S government, and so the case of course was who had the proper rights and, through that case, through the narrative, the John DOE Justice marshalled created. He brought forward a piece of international law that affects us today and that's the doctrine of discovery. Have you ever heard of the doctrine and nurse governing so at that's, that's any
christian, civilised european nation, has the right to conquer indigenous heathen peoples. So this was the principle that this case was based on in its set forward this. Weird relationship, the tribes in the U S government have today so if the? U S if the christian European Peoples had the rights too take land away from tribes because they were an inferior race, which is this. This is language from the case. There are inferior race. There are savages, there are unable to govern themselves and they only have a right of occupancy. So that was the first of three case. Is that Justice Marshall decided and of course he was an interested party in the whole thing because he had purchased land from the United States and he wondered makes or his land was secure. The second case,
was Cherokee Nation, be Georgia and this, The time during the indian removal acted Andrew Jackson had gotten through Congress to remove the Eastern Indians, west of the Mississippi River into indian territory, which is of course now Oklahoma, Kansas Texas Area and and again. This is a case that actually the Cherokee nation tried to bring before the Supreme Court and before that Supreme Court could even make a decision on this. And I just realized. I dont even tell you the facts of the case, so the Hutus, I'm I'm getting ahead of myself. I apologize. Nor is this. Is this incredible experience to be here on the little bit nervous, so in Cherokee Nation, verses, Georgia, Georgia is trying to assert its laws.
Over the Cherokee nation and so the Turkey nation brought this case before the Supreme Court to say you know that the this the state does not have any right to assert any of its laws against us, and what Justice Marshall did. As is said. Well, you know a foreign nations, so you can't bring a case before the Supreme Court and determine that tribes were a pseudo sovereign nation. Did they were still under tutelage and they needed to be civilised again, the same kind of inferior, savage language in this case and held that the federal government had plenary power over tribal affairs, and that the Cherokee nation couldn't bring this case to court. So what it happened in some missionaries who were serving the chair
Turkey, nation, actually developed a case. And violated Georgia laws, so they could bring a case before the Supreme Court in that case was called Gustave Georgia, and I think that was about eighteen thirty, two eighteen, thirty one, and in that case it was ruled that the United States, had a guardian and ward type relationship with tribes. And so we were the words they where our guardian and that set up this weird dynamic that still exist today. The Supreme Courts and other case other courts, site In indecisions today to basically
take away more and more rights. So so that was that's the watershed basis for this weird relationship that we have in its based on racism. It's based on tribes being an inferior peoples. They not be civilised and an so here we are so help help direct me into another question here: will run so fascinating thing: the idea that the it's it's government is that they, like the big, daddy, yeah, look over tribes and the only way the tribes can exist is if they exist the european way right. The great light father yeah So all this was happening while they were trying to conquer the west saw. This was happening around the gold rush time, and this was happening before and so this was happening in the western world heritage. The goal dress was eighteen fifty's, ok, so forty nine aims and a little bit more trying to do their bit? Basically try
to take overland right, o absolutely Addison LISA Georgia wanted that land for themselves. They wanted to remove the charity and, of course, the other. I'm quoting quote civilized tribes that were in the South EAST at that time. In that would so interesting is because you see throughout time. And so this is a little bit. Why have a problem with some of the books that you ve read is because they ve taken a small pictures of what was going on in kind of removed the context of what was really happening. There are so many tribes across even knighted states that tried everything to resist or comply or a similar
and continue to prosper as they had been, but the United States was obviously for a formidable opponent and regardless of of of, for example, the five civilized tribes in their there. There tactic was to assimilate, was to go to school and educate themselves and learn English, and even though they did school and educate themselves and learn English, and even though they did bad and they did everything that the United its wanted them to do. They were forced off their land and to the west in the indian territory. The Comanche who who you ve, learned about through the book they, that those events happened during a point in time, and that was their effort at resistance. They saw ah how disease wiped out their brother,
and from other nations. They knew that folks were coming to get them, and so that was their way of resisting being assimilated and having everything taken away from them. In the defence of the authors of those books, they did cover a lot They did. These books are in no way taking this side of the United States government. You know most of us, but the most amazing thing about empire the summer. Moon was just how special, the relationship the Comanches had to the land, and about how, when the judge just go
Parker's that wouldn't of Cynthia Cynthia Ann Parker, who is she's the photo out there. A woman is breastfeeding your child. She was kidnapped when she was nine and assimilated with the comanches and then was re kidnapped by the United States government when she was in her thirties and didn't want to go back. She missed the Comanche life and through her and threw her depictions in her descriptions of the way they lived and understanding of it. There better sense of like what she missed about that life and that they had an incredible relation. Ship, the land, they lived basically Justin TV they were very nomadic- did just followed around the Buffalo and they had you know in her way of looking at it on a magical existence in comparison to this really boring life that these settlers had and when you don't she looked at it, it was interesting because she was a girl
was born. You know us that we have just described a white saddler then from the age of nine on lived as a comanche, so she had like sort of a view of both worlds- and you know she very- I took the side of the comanches and she wanted to go back like she had spoken Comanche in in the book. There's an encounter where they bring in someone who was a comanche to speak to her and she grab some shit I take me back we're gonna leave. Let's get out of here now, like her thought was like we. How to get out of here like this way of life is bullshit like I want to go back to the comanches, but she just didn't understand that That way of life was slowly going away in her son Quantum Parker. Who is that photograph over there that's bullets at somebody may for me, I don't even know where they came from some he summoned up, but that that he was the last Comanche chief
and they buy the during her lifetime in her sons, lifetime was the last of it, and it's very sad story, and you know the Comanche ordeal live today. Zeit shore, Oklahoma. Lances is quite a few of them. They have actually been contact. Some of those guys are. That's us, yes, is very cool, but they do, but they don't like the way they did right, Their way of life was removed, mean they were wiped out in that one. In that sense, the cultures aren't static right and we're not static. And I think one of the major issues that American Indians have is that we are often stereo typed into this this picture and if we don't fit bad, then were not legitimately indian. When you, when you first met me, what did you think you think will is brown skin, where's where's, the feathers. I mean this is now known. I dont think you did
now, I know little of rhetorical question: oh hell! Yes, so are you one hundred percent native American? No, absolutely not deserted Jordan? And that's that's library talk about that. Let's talk about that. What other so blood quantum is! imposition from the federal government. That is, that has been used to weed out native American, so the whole the whole idea of? U S. Federal policy has been to assimilate Indians to rid themselves of the indian, problem so that land and resources could be obtained right and so blood quantum was one way that the? U S? Government could do that. So, if you, if you didn't meet what they thought with some kind of purity test, then they could write you off but that is not how
Many indian nations view tribal citizen. Ship or membership its through other types of cultural continuity. Family relationships and it's not about race- that's been an imposition on, So I'm polish and chapter two haven't have something like TAT: Cynthia Parkers, probably good examples, right, because she was zero percent native American, but was purely to match right right were absolutely absolute. Italian Italians very similar, I'm italian, but I have a last name: it's irish, because I'm one quarter Irish so grown up around Italians who was always away. They made fun of me like it was always a funny thing. I ve your italian like this, this it's you know it's a purity test,
like Italians, like a nice last name with a lot of vowels, no, that's that's what they like in it really interesting. So, as executive director of the associate non american indian affairs, we get tons of inquiries, probably the top inquiry. We get our people wanting to do dna tests to determine what tribe they built so everyone seems to want to be indian and even PETE. Some people are emboldened to say you know, hey. I did my dna test. It says I'm native amiss where's. My indian check really. There are so many misconceptions about what it means to be native American, that's a real issue. Yes, that doesn't exist, but there's some kind of of and to see or myth that, many people in the? U S, kind of belief, about Indians, because we don't know it's not like
taught well in school. It's it's not like. This is part of a norm dialogue and click Europe correct me if I'm wrong, but I dont believe that it can really clearly Dan defy what nation you're from no dna tests can identify whether you have certain genetic traits that might be from North America, Canada or might be from South America as well right right yeah. So if you really want to learn about your history and heritage. You have to do that genealogical research and if you weren't aware there's five hundred and seventy four federally recognise tribes in about three hundred other tribal groups in the United States in a ladder to other on top of the fat and get that aren't recognised by the United States. For many reasons, and so each one those tribes have their own laws. They have their own systems of governance, thrown whether it's a more traditional
form of government or a written constitutional government, and each one of them have their own eligibility requirements for citizenship. So You have to do your own genealogy and then, if you do find, who you may be officially, it'd within you go to that nation and you talk to them about what their eligibility requirements are. Some of em a residency Some of them are familiar. Your relations and in some a more blood quantum, the term indian. Is that? Ok to use that soulier. Illegal term of art, so indian is defined legal term in federal law of art, its illegal too. Of art, that what is was sorry, I'm a lawyer that different havens, that this means It's it's a defined federal term, and that has a specific definition in an U S code we tend
alike to be called the nation that we belong to ride? Who are people so for you? We talk, talk, talk right and for others, whatever church a lot of people use native American and that's that's more, that's a broad term, because that really can define folks from south of the invisible border north of the invisible border and in the western hemisphere. So it's a much broader term. Indigenous peoples is a great great term. A lot of you.
When Canada, these first nation first nation yeah, they have led to a very interesting relationship with first nation people there it similar but different in that they have very different rules in terms of like hunting and fishing, and they basically could do it ever they want, whereas the people that will my friends eleven Alberta and first nation people can now they don't have hunting season, they just do whatever they want. They basically say: look, let's just pretend like we never invaded and you just live how you would norm but with modern equipment sorts it's a little odd, but there's no way getting around it being odd. I mean, I think, gum one of the sea, things that I got out of this recent obsession with american indian Culture and the stories was realizing how little I knew about the history of this country. You know you, you might know you might have a
of a basic understanding of what happened that you learned in school. That's real peripheral! In its very soon purpose and then, upon reading these books, It may be realised like what happened here like this, What happened here over the course of a couple hundred years is almost unprecedented in history, like that this nation was key. Anchored by all these invaders that just kept common in changing the rules kept breakin trees, making trees, break entreaties, wiping people out calling things battles when they were really just massacres of women and children, monygham horrendous. Horrendous stories of the justification of these massacres. That word, no no doubt print than any other horrific are burying slaughter that you might have heard about in history that looked down upon, but for you
Sears in this country they were taught as if they were actual battles mean that did the history. This country, with in regards to the tribes and american settlers and the soldiers is terrifying it's terrifying. It does just happen a couple a hundred years ago and that people are capable of these things in the ancestors of these people. Roman around today and that's what this country was found on. This country was founded on massacre right in in in that policy, has been studied by folks like Adolf Hitler and was even included. He talked about studying, the: U S, treated American Indians in his book, mine, cop, real, yes, So am I but it wasn't just the battles, there have been many different types of battles that we consider warfare there.
It hasn't been done with you, no guns, illegal right, legal battles exactly, I mean, since the sixteen hundreds Europeans have been trying to educate us in assimilate us and in civilised us, and have passed laws once the United States became in a new country and a teen hundreds hundred pass laws to take our children and move them far away and and punish them if they spoke their language cut their hair. Put them in these schools that were military based Andy studied academics in the morning and then they did. Trade
in the afternoon and in those trades word to help pay for the schools. So they were basically indentured servants slave labour, making sure that the school could have enough funds to pay for their own education and the boarding school history in the United States and Canada has horrendous horrendous stories. And do these schools were funded by the? U S, federal government, and the association and other groups are trying to get the United States to release records.
Of of who were the children in these schools? We think there's if there were about five hundred boarding schools across the United States about at least twenty thousand children, that we can figure out. Work were killed were duck, died in these schools, yeah, so there's the Carlyle some of this It has been done at the Carlyle Indian School and in Pennsylvania, which is now owned by the army. Core army core of in nears, and there are some tribes that are trying to repatriate their children that are in graves therein and bring them back home. So this has been our process. All over the country trying to figure out you know who these children were where they belong in.
To bring them home. It's it's been a really difficult process for all in the same meeting of them, die disease not being fed working too much Paul those things that could kill a child and all the, think there's records of all these different children and the places there's no. Knowing what we haven't been able to folks at are doing. This work have not been able to find all the records and, like I said, the federal government probably have. The records probably has mismanaged a lot of the records regarding these boarding. Schools and, in their word different times, have been different areas of indian policy, where the federal government like await this, isn't working. Let's, let's get out of this business of teaching Indians, let's give it to the churches, let them do it for a while and then it would come back into the federal government and the Turkish would have it and of course, we ve heard all
the horrible things that that different churches have done to children, and there are still many boarding school survivors today can tell those stories of abuse, sexual and physical and Who still live with that today? There is organization called the native American Boarding School Healing coalition that is really working on these kind of issues and have pulling together the stories and are also working with survivors to try to heal from that that trauma. That's not just theirs, but it's it's. This ensured intergenerational historic trauma that has been with our communities for a couple hundred.
There is now so there. There are a lot of stories like that and in this again this is: U S federal policy. You know they would while they were, while the, U S, was building the reservation system and in an pudding tribes kind of in these blockades, you did not send your child to school. You weren't, given rations you weren't, given your food. If you practiced your culture, you you could be killed for practice, senior culture using your language, because and as this was the assimilation policy of the day, and this happened. I would say in fifty eighteen seventies, through the nineteen twenty there was this horrific period of federal, indian policy of of doing
trying to do away with language communal type, living cultural practices in religion. So this isn't just you know, gun warfare. This has been continuing policy that even affects us today, so it was gone warfare until they got the Indians to moving. The reservation, and then it was basically and annihilation of the culture right. It meets all the definitions of genocide from them. From
international law that one of the things that they talked about in black hawk was the practice of the ghost dance. This idea that they're going to somehow or another bring back the old ways and it's a sad, sad story when men you hear them talk about, especially because it's coming from the words of black alcoves, a guy that was there with the battle of little bighorn and then from then now is an older man talking about what what his experiences have been. Like haven't had seen as people moved to reservation. I seen it. Basically, every single treaty broken, I mean. Was there a single treaty that United States had with the Indians of the didn't break that what that's insane mean Ray Single one and most treaties had some similar language. A lot of them talked about. They had bad man provisions, so bad man provisions were basically, if our
in the? U S, if our men come in and to your jurisdiction and do something bad will take care of it for you, you know just some simple provisions like that, but that never was enforced. The? U S, let let their people come in and take over what we're supposed to be protected areas of land. An ape, and that was his constant that happen that happened everywhere. So there were bad man provisions. There were lots of provisions lot a beautiful provisions that that the tribes still talk about today. You knows as long as the the grass grow and you know, will have our lands and in none of these provisions were ever upheld and a lot of the EAST coast, tribes, they're they're bound,
These were changed, a new treaties were made and accepted in and room, removal happened in there were new treaties and nothing was ever maintained. Where did you grow up? Did you grow in Oklahoma, Grubber resort? so Oklahoma is an interesting case. So Oklahoma did have set aside land so talked. I had their area Chickasaw in the other tribes that were removed to Oklahoma and by the way, because of that remove well. They're tribes were already there were removed, so there were already tribes there. The cat
Comanche another other tribes at this was our he their land. So new tribes moved in and land, I'm forgetting my dates now, but there was a Dawes Commission around one thousand, nine hundred and six or so, where There was a census and individual Indians were allotted about a hundred sixty acres apiece, and this was an effort to decrease the amount of land based that tribes held in common right, and this happened all across the country not just in Oklahoma, were there were allotment policies, and I believe there there were about
heck, I'm not good with numbers. I think there were like nineteen million acres that that were removed this way of of land. But what happened today? There is a criminal case before the Supreme Court that is, actually addressing these issues, because even though our lands were allotted the exterior boundaries of our reservations, the area that we had agreed to live in, they ve never been extinguished. They ve never been diminished, and so this Supreme Courses ACT. Supreme Court is actually looking at this issue now as to whether we still have jurists Action within the next boundaries of our reservations in Oklahoma, without extend to cities There are other citizen or go home and that are in those areas, no yeah. So if you think of my torso gas, so that's creek, nation Sorrento,
so would be owned. Well, so so. Not necessarily so so. It's raised a lot of fear with with non Indians about why the Indians are taken back the land- oh my god, but What actually happened? There's a lot of places, an Indian country where there is a lot meant enders theirs, non indian individuals who who have fee land with an exterior, Andrews are reservations and an individual indian so only in Finland, within the exterior boundaries set as already land feeling and so just how you already know, So how you own land, it's called, it's not restricted! It's it's in fee! You own! The titles that land right, a lot of land held by tribes is entrust or in restricted fee. So A common area land legs like let's look at em,
the Onondaga Nation Organisation in New York state. They have, the exterior boundaries of the reservation they own, restricted fee land, so they own it, but they can't sell it. Without you S permission crime. Trust land is similar in its treated the same as restricted fee, but its held in trust. So the? U S, has more control of of of what happens on that. Land has been seen to have a little more control than it would in industry. Did fee, but within the exterior boundaries of the reservation you can have this checker boarded ownership, land of non Indians and Indians in and but that It necessarily mean that the tribe has jurisdiction over the non Indian Feel aunt and that the civil and criminal jurisdiction,
Shoes on an area of land like down is extremely complex and continues to be argued in the courts and most of the time, our jurisdiction most of the time we lose them. Cases, especially since. The Eightys and Ninetys, and up until today we ve there was really a change in kind of how the Supreme Court decided indian law cases so If we go back into the history of of federal indian policy, you see this kind of weird schizophrenia. Kick you know, though, those those those Marshall cases that I talked about? They really set forward kind of schizophrenia principle.
Did the Indians are sovereign, they're they're just award in their uncivilized, so we have to take care of them, but their sovereign, and so you have a different areas: areas, time, policymakers, hoo hoo. Support, tribal sovereignty and will use those cases to help support that sovereignty in there other administrations that come around not talking about any current administration, but that that use those cases against us and in degrade policy and degrade any kind of rights that we may have gained in in,
other areas. So it's it's really been you no Indians today live in this live in such an in secure world. You know our statistics are horrible, known. The suicide rate for our youth are high school graduates. Every thing, you could possibly think of there's a statistic on were usually the lowest where the worst and its because we live in a society that is constantly changing. We can never depend on whether or not our rights are secured, whether or not we're gonna have land jobs be able to practise.
Culture, we're still trying to you know there were period of periods of time and in our history, where people would steal, are religious objects and are sacred items they still do and loot our graves there there's an law called the native American Graves Protection and repair Creation ACT that was meant to repatriate those stolen items in those stolen ancestors back two tribes, so that we could help with our culture revitalization, as well as put our ancestors back to rest, there are still at least hundred thousand ants sisters in boxes and museums. Truth, that's just in the: U S, two hundred thousand museums and the yours just in the? U S so are, sisters and our cultural items in religious sobs objects of also
taken all around the world. Imagine if it was french people whose two hundred thousand french people in boxes, in museums, in the? U S and Frances. One of the worst. So there was just a case, Recently, french love to oxen are sacred objects. For some reason, there was a sacred shield of the Pueblo of Acoma in about two thousand and sixteen that was being sold at auction in in France and the the tribe, the pueblos, lot and even went to court in France to try to stop at auction and get that item back, because there was evidence that it had been stolen in contemporary times, and France said you dont have standing
our courts, so even though there are considered- sovereign or a pseudo sovereign nation. Here in the United States, we didn't have standing in in the french court and can protect that item this way. So We had to use other means of negotiation and arm twisting that It has finally been repatriated, but it took it took about four years too for that to happen, so its farm had been broken yards, but that's that's just one case. This happens, whereas it now it's back its back home at the Acta Pueblo did the evident despoilers. No. This is a sacred object. The Kazi arms were right. The these are items that are used for religious purposes. Are there to protect
sacred items and the association we were fighting with the Metropolitan Museum of ART last year and the year before, because they were displaying items from a private collection that were sacred. One item was even a funeral. Airy object was an item that is new. We're supposed to be seen because its buried with the ancestor and it was on display in bout, any kind of consultation with the tribes affected, its hers is the way we still look at indian people and and our cultures and our practices Today I were still being called heathens. There was an article I think. Just last week there was a a religious man, saying
that were hevens, because we we affirm the sage that I gave you because we burn sage. As one of our medicinal and and spiritual proud, was the reason why they were colony even care, and this was just in an article last week from what, from a christian groups oh well. Well, to where all and yes, the it seems like the issue of what you re talking about, but you suicide, Highschool, graduation drug addiction. All all those problems is that those with the most massive ones and what could be done
to try to mitigate these problems. I give you had a magic wand and it mean it's been if you, if you talk about native american reservations in this country, you people talk about poverty, they talk about drug addiction and alcoholism. They talk about despair when this is something that was also brought up in the book black out. So this seems to be something that started when they were forced into reservations. In the first place and then were ashamed of their heritage because the fact they were subjugated by these these
me whatever you want to call them, that the soldiers to the military, what could be done? What if you had a magic wand- and he said- and I said, Jane and work and what can be done to give you you? You have all the money at your disposal. What would you do? Well, these there's, no quick fix to crises like out, and people have been trying to work with tribes, your guarding poverty in tandem addiction and severe there's no quickly, as there is no quick boy, think ahead of what there is an end and what were working to do seats my organizations almost two hundred years old and we're looking forward to the next hundred years. What are we gonna do and there is really important work done being done regarding hailing from historic trauma and its community work its work that engages the entire community. So it's not just directed at at young people. It's not just directed at a SEC minutes. It real
involves a whole community coming together and healing. But what also really needs to happen is we need to bring people like you along with us, so we need, if it We can't clear away the myths that Euro, America or White America whatever you want to call it. If we can't clear away those myths that we continually face every day. Every time I go into Washington DC them every time I go into the wagons. There's a big girl Washington. Ball team toasty, potato chips with the Washington Football team name on there in an dome the Redskins and I was out of offensive word- that's an offensive for me even saying like right- there's our offensive. Yes, yes, not to everybody, but
the majority of of native american groups tribes. They ve all lead The team know that that that that name is offensive and they still won't change it. They don't they say it's honouring its honouring native Americans. That term is you and you see it in historic records to count indian skins or scalps that have been taken from indian people on its end sensitive, it's not just derogatory or demeaning budgets and which we really clear. You're, saying we say, skins and stout mean dead people, yeah, yeah, yeah and sorry our north
Doesn't this is the number one reason why I wanted to have you here? I want it. I want it from your perspective because for us we get oh yeah, that's an offensive word her! That's offensive. I heard that defensive. The majority people are not talking to someone who's deeply ingrained in the native american issues and culture like you are, so you can explain to us that the amount may make sense if we lose it was that you now stink about some derogatory term for someone somewhere even if one looks kind if derogatory like. If there were called the washed in crowds and was all based on Germans, a lot of german people, probably really pissed off at that. I came out that's kind of shitty. Why Conniston? But it's the Chiefs Kansas City cheese. I liked what other native american names has been at a ton of right, yeah Braves a lot of Koreans are the brave still around yes, mister! So,
Is anybody give given in and change your name? I'm I yes there, how and there's been really of movement with high school colleges, and I dont know the status of any. You know as far as in a feller or national team, Syracuse, Syracuse University had a derogatory mascots that they changed some years back because of the tribes there. There are now in the state of New York fought for that. What was the Moscow I can't remember, but now the third there's, some kind of like Orange and Orange Super Orange yeah, well, it's her neighbours reacts Orange exactly about, but but if, if wherever gonna-
these issues. I think we really need to start with our public education system. We need to teach people The Indians are still here were still alive. It's amazing how many people don't even realise that the indian people exist outside of casinos? It is kind of crews, if you think about there's, not another culture that gets name gets teams named after where we have Indians all around us all. The time just go to the grocery store by butter some baking soda? Look it look at different, we work in yeah pop culture tomahawk missile, indian motorcycle and end the Pontiac, Canada. I think an indian head on it saw car palm back in the day, I think, out of old, all point to acquire yeah had
it's, it's all over our our culture, its all around us, and they give we don't even realise that did what that means. And so I really am too many of us, you would think would open up a dialogue about about indian people and and whether we're going to choose to do something different with this history, because it is our history, it it's our collective history and we have throughout. Time change the narrative and stories of our history. You know when we We all realise that Columbus wasn't such a great guy, long time yeah. Well. What do you think about that? You're? A stallion crazy? It's crazy!
took so long to figure out that he was a sociopath and a murderer. I mean what will you read the accounts of the different religious people that were traveled Columbus? That did wrote, I forget what it what they were, what what their designation was, but there was one journal that detailed what they did to native american babies out of their heads on rocks and cut people's arms off of they didn't bring their weight and gold them. In horrific horrific tales of torture and murder, and it's like how is this, the guy that we have a day off for houses. Colombia and you realize what Columbus was a conqueror, I mean he was just symbol of the Times music. Fourteen ninety two, brutal time in human history and when they arrived in what they mean that really didn't even arrive here, but when they arrived wherever they did arrive, it was
the worst thing that could ever possibly happen to the people that were already living there and that this guy is somehow or another. You know I'll part of our folklore. You know one thousand four hundred and ninety two Columbus sail the ocean. Now that nonsense, and meanwhile he's a fucking murderer. It's it's kind of crazy that it did They knew this, but it took Until now I mean didn't change to indigenous peoples do well. There are still cities, county states that are still in the process of changing that? I'm not sir. I think there are some cities and income before near that have already done that in and celebrate indigenous peoples. Dental imbecile had I not named after Columbus, is named after another. Do no was named after Columbus. Is Dr Statue Veracity hall,
such it talk, you be a little late and I'm gonna Columbus out on perfectly with the Indians, which makes me that its now you piece of shit, I'm sorry I was trying to ignore that acts are fella thanks a lot. I feel really welcome rise. That's right! The Cleveland, Indians, another one forgot about the Atlanta Braves washed in Redskins. It is nuts when you stop and think about, how many american teams are named after Indians, animals and Indians, Columbus man fuck you Columbus there are no federally to tribes in Ohio. Acre somebody named after a cool native american Debbie. Yet I will be all right who I wouldn't I would. I would consult with native Americans before right. They would have to be someone from Ohio like what what nation is in Ohio. Well, there is not any now
there are indigenous peoples there, but there are no federally recognise tribes in Ohio, wow, so who are the indigenous people that are not federally recognized? I'm not sure, but I Oh the terrors, Indiana Ohio. That was my tripe other in Oklahoma. But there are obviously Miami you mean Miami. The city know their tribe people eczema, you're saying that earlier and I was gonna correct to correct gonna. Ask you rather have you meant the city Oh no I mean my name is: did Miami named after a native americans- I don't know- I don't know, but I wouldn't, I would think so there's a lot of place. Names, that are named after indigent rivals so Miami is a type of its attracted. Yes, yes, and in Oklahoma, how confusing therein and Northern Oklahoma they probably my reviewing, keep it
crazy, asshole, but what's interesting in these states like Indiana and Ohio, where indigenous peoples have just been removed, all heartedly is dead, tons of archaeologists and other people that like to loot, they ve taken so many things out of the ground. There was a case that FBI, actually got a hold of in Indiana gentlemen, by the name of DAWN Miller, who had huge ranch house in farm It was just fall of native american artifacts, including human remains, and there were even items from other countries that he had had eluded. Taken, and the FBI actually investigated that in and because the man.
Like ninety years old, they didn't prosecute him, but they were able to take back those items and through that native american Graves Protection and Repatriation ACT, they ve been consulting with tribes. Repatriate those items back without looting and collecting and in areas like Indiana Ohio agenda. We actually has it up on the screen. Oh yeah, he realized funds, two thousand human bones among antiquities these four man's home. So where gentlemen, get all this stuff is cold, she was native American, including the bone TIM Carpenter of the FBI, told media outlets, Nanda, habit, report, Miller, Orderly admitted he conducted illegal digging, expeditions we never first criminal charges before his death in two thousand fifteen, so this guy was is digging stuff, and just showing arouse house, and there were rules against this. Oh absolutely, absolutely! And ours
if it's on land that safe here legs, what if he owns a ranch? How does it work like a euro? It's it's dependent in a lot of that. Things it did. He had it wasn't clear where he had got it from he didn't even know, or member keep any records of where he he got away, the items oh our laws are really scurry with this too so federal. Tribal lands are protected, so public lands parks and tribal lands are protected lands. You can't go in digging in federal or tribal lands without a permit, among other things, but distant state, private private lands? It's really dependent on what the state laws are in and it's it's really inconsistent, whether those
whether looting as protected or not, and so that's where it's interesting, because it there's a lot of gigantic ranches in Texas, privately owned that were originally native american hunting grounds they ve, there's ones at a friend of mine, is hunted on that they have these pictographs. You go inside these caves and this is on private land. Someone owns this you go but his cage and this ancient artwork over the walls of the cave, signs of fire like in a search on the ceiling of the cave where they lit campfires like this should probably be some sort of a historical site bright in its at usually not protected and and
people get real angry when Indians try to get involved in and where there may be developments, that hat will have an effect on burial side, a sacred side or other other type. A site people really get angry and it. So it's really hard for tribes to work to protect these areas, worked learn about what the areas or even about there has been so much amateur archaeology. I in this whole country was founded on amateur archaeology. Let's take a look What we found in this grave! You know everyone was looking for four gold and other special things and oftentimes they just took whatever was in the grave and and and created the antiquities art mark It would still is, is all over the world day. So these
association is constantly looking at auctions and trying to return items that that private collectors have obtained improperly? We just got of a human vertebrata removed from a? U s: auction just a couple of weeks ago time they were selling it because they said it had an arrow point still in you know, so that that value in him in some markets. This done dna almost to prove that no it was there. Selling and as a native american Vertebrata. It was from a collector and in in Massachusetts, while they prove that it wasn't just settle of those killed by right
I dont know in advance that thing about that's the thing about trying to work with auctions and private collectors, as they often don't want to work with us, because they're trying to make money so off, in times items whether their religious objects or human remains. They have a story or what's called provenance associated with them? That is often made up to drive the price of the item so whether that was a legitimate. Vertical, given their native American, we don't know cause. We can't get that collector to talk to us. So the collectors under no obligation by law, to talk to you No, that's how I will try to send the FBI and our friend whom carpenter to them, so how would they determine the mean what they have to do? A dna analysis of the bones and try to figure out where
The person was well, the dna analysis isn't necessarily gonna tell you where it came from. It could tell you that it was native American with even building without other bones. I don't know I am not a scientist, but you know there was. There was a case rule not that long ago called the Kinnock. Man case- I don't know- maybe you heard of it, but it was an ancestor, was uncovered in in the state of Washington, linings, old, old, old old and the universities involved in the army core who, who had possession of it we're gonna repatriated to appropriate tribes, and what ended up happening is. Is that you know,
Gimme A stepped up and said. I wait. This isn't native american. We think he's something else, and for years native Americans fought to get that ancestor ancient one back and finally, after a court case dead deemed the item wasn't that the ancestor was a native. Eric and DNA test was done in it. It was indeed native American and and the ancestral was finally repatriated precisely how that works so listen There's you said: there's five under recognise tribes, many more that are unrecognised. Who, with that go to write. So I say if you one and its brought back and given to native Americans, to who and two where right. So so so, let's look at the best case scenario. In him,
A lot of museums have maintain records may have human remains in associated Funeral area objects in Heaven. Information to know where that came from what side it was located out what county state and we know from tribal histories as well as as federal. U S, documentation in that that that area was likely affiliated with with you know this tribe or that tribe or maybe several tribes, and so consultation occurs under about law about those? industrial remains in funeral, airy objects in its determined where those items should go back, In the worst case scenario, withers, not any information, oftentimes evidence of of well who were the collectors that were giving too that instead,
ocean, what has been the history of the institution and where has it obtained different collections and through that You know it's deduced whom A b affiliated with with those those items are about the ancestor, so it can be a pretty long drawn out process. But what's interesting about it is, is as museums and other institutions fought this law for a long time and they said. Well, you know, all of our collections will know. We won't be able to fulfil our purposes a museum or an academic institution, to study things like will hell, you haven't, studied it in a hundred years, have yeah no most most of these when, when people work too insult with museums. Most of these items are in boxes and often
poorly managed and maintained, so they just sitting somewhere in storage right. RO. The museum owns, they're kind of hoarding it interesting So this can man, you pull up some information, but there is no more. Yeah great, because I would forego my dates when I'm very curious, but the dates would be now when we're talking about native Americans Do you agree with the idea of guilty here to hear man finally free? They did so much study ever found North America is a handsome fellow Mozilla picture, looks normal. Where's into shreds of their guide. Several everyone was a row cigarettes. A modern American, a modern,
You know, that's the bones. Ferris bones allows rebounds. So what is it? What does it give give us a date on his what they have car go to that picture, that teething in that's crazy. So so just let me tell you that look human remains for many am tribal peoples is, is difficult. It's like look. Adam, a naked body. I mean it's, it's the essence of someone that you know We shouldn't be seen also that it was even these images that that should have been in the ground that suddenly gone and disappeared at how to join. Got interrupted and, and you know it, some tribes and cultures believed that harmful to interact or or look at
or just a little bit humiliating its exposed right, so so saying them on display in museums particular got yeah and in an end, least in the United States. You won't find that in any kind of public museum. Now you might in some kind of private institution or private collection. When I do with mummies, rightly you you'd, but with native american people, they decided that that's offensive to the culture, so they ve removed, as that was well also happening. Your finding another in other countries who, in Egypt, for example, and in other cultures dad home there trying to get those back to the matter with us and we can go and look at Ronald Reagan head right. Some people would probably enjoy that for sure go, but
it's one of those things where it's like all. Can I kind of got it right? So if you have the bones of sitting bull on display in some sort of a you know, Plexiglass case Museum and people, that's cool, okay. What would that be cool if that was wrong? You know what that be cool. That was someone from our you know our lifetime that died with had Janis Joplin TED. You know in a box somewhere and austerity. When that weird, you out Amy Wine House how someone died. Yeah seems there, someone who died really recently built pot, you doing well and now we need to look at it that way yet willing. That's the thing is that we don't seem to look at native people in that way. We don't seem to two to go. Oh, that's! Not! Ok, ok, to outlaw their religion were. How would I feel of someone did that to me right right, this? It's it's! Double standard or modern what you call it, but it's just
as someone yeah way where yeah racism is the right word to you, go to the kind of man again and find out what the date is. I'm just curious as to what the date is of. His eyes like when what they did his skeleton back to, because this something NED? Someone actually not up to me that There are many native american cultures that don't believe the story of people coming across the bearing land Bridge from Asia. Is that something that just one story, so that's just one theory about how the western hemisphere was populated. There are many of those stories and what's interesting as its limits. A lot of indigenous peoples have have stories that go back, hundreds and hundreds of years and there's a guy, book. So if you really want some good books, we gotta get you into some indigenous authors, one of war,
his vine luria, whose is passed on, but he he was attorney in a scholar and wrote a book in the late sixties, early seventies called custard died for your sins and it was no it's known, the Indian Manifesto Ride, but he also rose returned Custer, I, what is your sands vine? Dolores? He also wrote a book called Red Earth white lies and he talks about western science in and its arrogance of of Creating these theories like the bearing Straight Land Bridge and never really considering, never going Jen stories. For example, the talk donation has who lived on the land and whose place was the land, how they got there because they do have those stories of how they got there an end.
And what is the story, the most native Americans, except? Is it the idea that they came from bunch different. It's it's their own origins stories. For example, the talk donation nation has a few origin stories, one of it, which includes coming out of the ground at a certain certain area in the South EAST, were coming out of the ground so being burst out of the ground. In a certain area and then there's another migration story. So a lot of I have one elder said hey you wanna, hear in origin story. Do you want the five thousand version, twenty thousand your version, the forty thousand your version and he wouldn't go The story about how many people in the south, west and South Eastern up into the northeast actually came from the south and were slaves of of Aztecan and other
Civilizations down south that had been released and began migrating up. Through the north hand, there are other stories that that have us come from other places by boat I mean that there were also great canoe and and and water fares, and so I think, there's a lot a lot to unpack there that science really has ignored and find a lorry is, is great, though, when he talks about these things and read white lies because he has a sense of humor about a new talks about yeah here we are in in in Asia. While there is a big she too, sub there. That looks like a good place to go. Let's go and talks about how their theories of of of trees and horses at it,
at a certain period of time that that migrated back and forth among the land bridge and how that could have occurred and how how sometimes it doesn't seem quite logical on what science is put together there. So you know the full story about the land bridge, though, by the scientific, the version story. Yeah I mean it really was a country I mean it was. It was not just like a thief bridge we try to low. It was the big seed ice that may have had one little areas of of where you could survive, but from what I understand about it? yeah- maybe I probably don't know well well enough, but there's an angel is it's the way their changing the way they look at it?
the way that they are right but the way the theory begin when it was just a very small group of of scientists to who may The determination that this was the way that the western hemisphere was populated and and would allow- indigenous scholars contemplated was. That was an easy way to basically Devalue our place in the Western Hemisphere We came from somewhere else yet as the resistance of the disease It's designed it was the oceans were lower. The oceans were lower. During the I say, and they believe that that area between Asia and North America was
just like a land bridge, but was a land mass that was populated with animals and that this it would have been a natural progression for human beings to make their way across? That, in fact, is a funny story. There was a guy who was a Mormon who was trying to prove that native me chickens worthy lost tribe of Israel and do you know the story behind a oh? Yes, so he did. Dna tests are native Americans and find out that they actually came from Siberia, it's one of the scientific substantiation, so the landmass but there are other. There are other migration scenarios till one, I'm a hundred percent students that people have been traveling the world thick lips and thick faces, amend its really interesting? And then they don't know where they came from it or did not know much about their culture at all
there's, so many confusing artifacts and things in North America and South America, particularly the all max that the believer somewhere in the neighbourhood of six thousand years old and have very african looking faces and their carvings, or at least you know, like the very thick lips and thick face Simon, it's really interesting, and then they don't know where they came from it all. They don't know much about their culture at all and theres many myths of people arriving places and in boats and and travelling around boats. So this more likely to me is that young people have had wanderlust since the beginning of time. We travel all over the world and some people came to North America. Lucretia spots awesome right now, but but we have a tendency to take a few facts. So we understand from science or a few few sites that that were able to find this happens a lot in North America and in base a theory on it without really critical investor.
Nation in and not getting all the facts, and so that's a indigenous peoples have been left out of those stories have been left out of having been at the table to have those discussions about what they understand to be true about his nearest the what a warmer questions come in, Is it a fence of because the insinuation is that native american people are really american any you. They came from somewhere else as well that everybody came from somewhere else. They just we're here, of an earlier. So it's not theirs the idea that that that's that's one idea but near, but if you know We we ve always been considered and inferior race right and the fact that we are still left out of this. Susan making about our own lands and our own rights and our own sacred spaces were still left out a decision making or earth her Our ideas are not even considered in science. There not cons,
Third, in journalism they're not considered in medicine, are there not considered way where women are considered in science there, those traditional environs mental knowledge that a lot of Us people who who deal in it. Environmental protection have utilised to help protect large areas and has to do with how different environments, how different flora and fauna work together as a collective verses oftentimes in our our western way of thinking. We kind of you know we kill all the wolves or we kill all the predators. We we get rid of all these.
Plants and animals that used to all work together. Symbiotic lie in order to create a healthy environment and and and there's really employ, traditional environmental knowledge by many wisdom keepers across native America, that our trying to reach implement the things that have gone wrong in their environments and trying to replace what has been screwed up. When you hear and origin story, like the one we were talking about people coming out of the earth, what how do you decide for that.
Well, I've actually been too that origin site and it looks like a female com. It's a place where we were birthed looks like a theme. Wouldn't when looks like a place where we were. We were burst out of mother earth, It is it's a beautiful amazing in almost shocking place, whereas this place, this is MRS City, so you think that that might be true. That's that's our words and story or that's one of our words and stories rubber. You understand how scientifically they'll be a real problem for our people, Now the ground like like poppies- maybe maybe not- maybe not. I think there are There are stories and narratives that were no longer connected with, and it are low
If today are so out of context with the natural world that we don't know, it's possible anymore, we ve been so separated from that even so imagine Europe. We have a clear line from ancient hominids to modern human beings. That science has been able to pieces. Other that's ones. Everyone's story: right, it's a store. Another stories. We came out of the ground like roses. You think that's possible, though that seems highly likely leg. If I gave you, if you had money too bad, I give you a thousand bucks and you could put on this or that can put it on well, we probably people got here by all sorts of means. The way people got everywhere by all sorts of means, or they came out of the ground, flowers or Adam and Eve, and all that, well that all that is what we call the nuts III stories, whether there are worth
in stories that they create our identity, they create who we are at the centre of our being, and they have lessened, to teach us, and they also remind us what we are responsible for. And that's what I'm saying that we ve been so separated from that part of us and our connection the natural world into the earth rights where a part of the part a the problem from the from the earth here. Whether we actually born on the ground is There are really relevant responsible for right. We were put in certain places to be responsible and care take for that area. So a lot of these stories, what there
There are essentially trying to connect people with the idea that they are part of this great earth. There are part of this beautiful ecosystem, and maybe this origin story is devised to sort of explained to them in a way that makes a clear connection that make sense now absolutely absolute He bent, but but its, but it's part of who many tribal nations are. This is our place. This is our homeland. This right were responsible for and we haven't been able to do what we were put here to do. Our purpose has been numb ripped away from us, so so a lot of the work we do is is to try to you, know, work towards environmental healing and
right. It bring lands back into our land holding so that we can cure take for that land. That's not an that's, not all over India. And traders. There are some places in indian country that debt extract oil in and dumb do things that that could be harmful for the environment. You know, and we do what we can, as you know, with what we got and nations are sovereign. The tribes are sovereign, so they get to decide what's best for them and whether they're gonna be sustainable or not. What use it would be best case scenario for native Americans, United States. I got a sort of give you the magic wand again like what would be the best case scenario, because the string one thing that we have in front of us here is that their
is one country, the United States, but there's not just United States, north american citizens here there's also native Americans of vat, is different tribes rain that have their own reservations and, as you said, their sovereign, and they can kind of make their own decisions. What would be? What's the magic word how'd, you clear up all these problems associated with the mean that the horrific treatment, the everything from alcoholism to the problems of schools to self esteem issues. All these problem arms in North America, while also not the native Americans in way, I'm looking at. They want to stay a man
of their tribe and they don't necessarily want to be just Americans. They want to keep their heritage right universally. How does that? How those two things work together? How do you, how do we all live together in America and yet have these tribes and do it in a way that works best for everybody, right I'll head. Sir, that's a very complicated asked questions. Peaches free can have even with a man Dick wand are not quite but I agree that it should process in part of it is. Is these myths that we have to correct and that we have to? We have to find a new way to be able to tell our stories and not rely on non indian authors to tell our stories. But you need here our stories from us. We need to be able,
to tell our stories and to re teach the general public about who native Americans are where we ve been in, where we want to go. We're done want to grow. We we, we ve, had this kind of pretend fanny the world about about Indians. Are you know Coca harness. Columbus Stories Custer, they ve all been stories that have fed into the American Politic in a certain way at certain periods of time, and what I want is This is the time now were. Tribal nations have a lot to lose and were
the current administration that is trying to terminate us once again? What are they doing differently than others? Most Russians well Bay? They just they are taking land out of trust status. They would there are groups that are too king, the basis of federal, indian law and the rights that we do have some others? There is an act called the Indian Child Welfare ACT was passed in nineteen, seventy eight and it's an act that the association was heavily involved in to get past, and it started with some work with this. Like sue, tribe and a woman came to the people back then, and said they took my kids. They stole my children and after investigation
it was found that it wasn't just happening in Spirit Lake, but it was happening all over India Country where state welfare workers were taking. Indian children, in a disproportionate rate, quarter of all indian children during that period of time were taken away from them, on families and adopted out twice white families, and so the indian Child Welfare ACT required state courts to do things before a child was taken away from its tribal nation. There are groups now are working to dismantle that act and for working. That's been simple because they they think it's racist, so they so it's it's like they ve taken it in and in her, are looking for
the back towards a mere yes. So, instead of it being an act that was passed to protect our children and to make sure that the children had to eyes to their culture and their families, their saying that that's not in the best, and rest of children, so there's still looking at indian tribes as we can't take care of our own kids that our way of life is is not acceptable and other adopted families would be better and what's interesting, is
The indian Child Welfare ACT doesn't prevent non indian families from adopting children. It just requires a certain process to make sure that the affiliated trouble nation is involved in that placement and adoption process, and so that the child can maintain those those connections or that they tried to find a family, that's more culturally appropriate for the child. So there's just been actually came out of the Goldwater Institute, which is Goldwater when he was what was he a senator? He actually voted for the Indian Child Welfare ACT, but today the Goldwater Institute is is actually funding. Cases around the nation to attack the indian Child Welfare ACT. What is the? What is the reason behind in the? What are they trying to?
two. They say it's not in the best interests of indian children and even though there are child welfare organisations around the country that say the indian Child Welfare ACT is actually the gold standard in child welfare and that that we, should be utilizing those principles that are used in the indian Child Welfare ACT to protect all all children to maintain familial connections. When I'm asking this in terms of work. If you had a magic wand the reason why I am asking you this is because I've thought about it. I sat down and and try to go over it myself and I don't see a solution That's it's what's so strange to me is that we have nations inside of our nation, and I don't I don't want it ended in adult.
Citizen like I'm. U s it! It's not where I can start my own casino, and I can't just do whatever I want to do you understand what why that is. I mean no yeah guess I guess we know. I do not want into Europe's the reason I'm saying it. This way is because I'm just citizen. That seems crazy. What everyone is a? U S citizens, so citizen ship was forced on us and nineteen twenty four. I believe that another citizen like I'm a? U s it, it's not where I can start my own casino, and I can't just do whatever Why do you understand what why that is I mean no yeah, guess I guess we know. I do not envy you announce the reason I'm saying it. This way is because I'm just I'm just trying to look at it like from overhead view like if I was an alien, and I will try to sort this out bad had no no ties to eat or culture. I believe what do you do that? What do you do that, like I stands. These people been massively fucked over that genocide was
traded under their their race, that there were wiped out both with disease and by military actions and soldiers and treaties were broken. I get it, but this date therein, right now, when you look at what we're too, come out with these reservations, the horrific conditions and the problems drug abuse now column and suicide and and despair and selfish in all these issues like what is the solution? Well would be mean if there was an unlimited budget like what? What would you do if you were like? If is present chat, and if you get elected you can win right. You can be President animal. She was president tactics right. Seventy one and he became the president and you you ran on the part of what your play form Watson was fixing this job. Granting sore that we have in this country our relationship with the tribes. What would you do.
Unlimited resources, you do whatever you want it. I dont know if it has anything to do with the tribes. I think has more to do with that. Rural public, ok, women's about changing perspective. I think I think if we were properly educated about about history, I think if we really understand who native people are and and are important, Here and their importance to continue as sovereign tribal nations, and it has to start it has to start with with public education. We have to recreate what's important to us here, and- and I think some indian nations have have been here- I think they're- a symbol of of amazing
prosperity that the country could have and we ve just never captain do it and I'm I'm talking about just principles and values that that we don't seem to to hold any more in this country, appreciation of nature or symbiotic relationship with it. I feel, like you're kind of being sarcastic. No, no, no, no, no! No! No! No! No! No! Not at all. I think that one of the major we have in this country. As we don't ever appreciation of nature. We really don't you know it's not just an appreciation of it. I think it s a connection to that. We cannot survive without it in hand, were so inter related to everything that that happens on this earth and end we,
We don't look seven generations ahead of us to see what our decisions today are. Gonna do to us in the future were constantly looking for the dollar today, in how that's gonna reward efforts to day and were not looking. How do you know what the lives of our children are? Gonna, look like with the lives of our great great grandchildren are gonna. Look like and then I think those are the kind of values that that we need in our country now, and I think that's what's being debated, in the democratic campaign. Right now, you know: where are our values are weakened? It you know continued to support corporate society and a corporate sponsored everything. Are we gonna start looking at what we want? You know a hundred years from now, without certainly what's Goin on Renault, the dumb yeah yeah yeah, and it seems like corporates, women,
even though there are spokesperson, could barely talk, which is hilarious. A major shows you how strong money and media and the influence of the dance is why with all this education. Do, though, and explain to people to the american citizens that are outside the tribes. How is it going to help the tribes themselves? What what could be done to help these problems that we ve already detail the problem of alcoholism, the promises beside despair and self esteem? All these horrific conditions that exist on many many tribes will part of that is, is Is not anyone anyone's pro one, but ours that we have to deal with is is sovereign nations within our our own communities in how we, how we choose to fix those issues, but I think, look
outside how how we can really affect change is there's something called prior informed consent. In its contained within the EU in declaration of indigenous peoples and it requires a state or a government to include tribal nations, in the decision making processes that affect them. So this general, this administration has been here, rebel added, absolutely horrible out at the Obama administration was much better, but we need to be part We need to be the decision makers in the things that affect us. So if, if you are point to bulldoze and blow up our sacred sites to build your border wall. It seems like the proper thing to do. First would be to have a conversation with us and in four
to make a decision about how we make you that a little bit better to protect those sacred sites in and natural springs and other things along along the border, instead of just blow up everything. Where was the situation that was happening during your bomb, the Obama administration, where they were trying to put up applying through and they were hosing people down and it was on private land and they were going to private Lana people protesting, but they were there forcing through anywhere. Where was that notwithstanding our written in North Dakota, and that's it going on today. In fact, I think this week there is a glaring that well at the Fort Laramie Treaty, I think, is- is affected by that, so there are some land right issues there, but we're we're talking about. Bear cereals and sacred areas, not to mention a water quality and the tribes
bombers stopped it, but as soon as Trump got into office, hee hee, hee, hee pushed it forward in and did not consult with tribes. And it's been a fight ever since same thing happened, would Obama was going through it initially and then They give us they put a stop to it right before he left office right right right. What's this I'm so cynical, I wonder how much of that his horse shit? How much will put a stop to this? I was going through a door boys. Well, you know, the bomb administration was probably one of the more favourable administrations to indian country. There were many present in still had never even gone to a reservation like the majority of presidents and he did Flee was adopted into the coronation, I think so. He user and adopted tribal member was pretty cool using his visited since then, I don't know how to bed nets
but but that that administration really did a lot of work in indian country that had never been done before and they actually, we're. Looking two tribes and building a government to government relationship dead, no one had ever really done as well. Every here they would help hold a big tribal consultation in DC or tribal leaders would come from everywhere. And consult with Obama and his administration. It was really unprecedented and It was. It was a really happy time and as soon as from got into office, the doors closed doors club, So, even though he appointed assistant secretary for Indian Affair,
there's a terrorist Sweeney whose Alaska native that administration, in the Department of Interior and under the president has just been so close. It's been hard to get anything done or to get heard, or even actually have that government to government relationship anymore. We ve been left out of a lot at the decision making process it's going on Oliver indian country. Well, that's so it's a very good thing to hear about Obama. They do balance said here. The the trumpet administration is abandoned, but it's nice to hear that someone was making an attempt to do that. So what I'm getting at the d really is no, no long term solution, there's no solution, you're, saying that the transparency and a lot of you lose it. I think there's a lot of solutions in a lot of moving parts, and I think I think you know
indian nations needed determine for themselves how best to handle the problems within their communities, but outward facing to have a strong government to government relationship that takes into account not just takes into account but actually requires the prior and and form consent of those tribal nations before affecting their rights or or least some diplomacy or negotiation with varying interest before decisions are made. I think that's that's the heart of of of what needs to happen, outward facing and also we need to take a new look at at our curriculum in schools. We really need to most of our correct. All of our curriculum and in public schools is about looking at native American Pre Pre, one thousand nine hundred so
and not caring back into today and who contemporary native american tribes, are and what they're doing to help their people and in what's. Wonderful about some indian country today is that, though there have, there are some places that are still there are some anti indian hate groups out there that fights with a nail against anything a tribe and in their area, tries to do to develop economically. There are other communities where tribes have been able to bring in economic development whether that's through gaming or otherwise, by the way indian gaming is like. No, other type of corporate gaming, and I think a lot of people and understand the so, if you're a gambler go to The casinos cause them money goes towards
indian nation governance, it's not like a private business. It is legislated, get that money. From those casinos go back in to India, fishing governance and are used for jobs and employment, and social services in all. Relieves the state and other government agencies from from having that that responsibility towards those success, lorries of modern aren't success stories I mean, if you look it so the sage Oklahomans fighting Indian nations in Oklahoma about gaming, trying to get more money out a gaming, but the that ok, tribes brought in tons of money a hundred thousand jobs have been created and in
casino, another economic development, whose why and why the governor is finite and govern it? Governors did, I think, is his name and he's trying to read Gauche renegotiate gaming compact ordered to bring more money into the state so essentially trying to attacks that for state purposes, even those on native land right right, interesting. So it's almost and in a way another attempt at violating a treaty absolute so denying the sovereign nation right well in the indian Gaming regulatory act which was passed in there, so much federal legislation, it's insane of federal indian law. I mean it has its own twenty five, you see this huge code of of of stuff man.
The indian Gaming regulatory act was passed because Indians were finding success. Doing gaming and states were getting pissed off because they were doing it without any interference, which is their inherent sovereignty to do so, but also this so this this act came which was kind of. A compromise were word tribes can do what's called class to gaming, which is based on being In the end, there is electronic bingo games that are kind of like slot machines, so tribes do class to gaming without any interference with state, but if they do class three gaming, that's card games and other types of then the state they have to work with the state in order to develop some kind of compact and in revenue sharing
for class three gaming, so the state, the federal government again allowed state to interfere with that inherent tribal sovereignty to violate their own economic development that's an issue with all of these native american casinos. Isn't it they don't get the full Vegas treatment they can have all the games that vague welcome. Have they can that's the class three gaming, but they have to do it through the stay right, sir? Has through their sovereign government itself strange right? It's like for in war, on the one hand they get no help at all and then, when something comes along that allows them to economically thrive, then the governs I hold on where's our these. So why do you think this is so suddenly become I'm in so much legislation looks at tribes as if their inferiors, back again to those water said cases of of Justice, Marshall, their inferior, even
being able to assert jurisdiction over Non Indians who come into our territory and do something wrong we can't write someone breaks the law, in a native american reservation Lear under those federal government's guidelines or the state governments laws. The tribe does not have criminal tourists Dixon over Non Indians. Sylvie someone comes in and robs a casino, then the state ass to take care of right state or the federal government, depending on what type cried? Ideally, would it be that the native Americans who take care of it now? Why not be funding if they brought back like hanging capital punishment, Shilaley lives on the streets. You see how that works, look, no more robberies you think that's what we did back in that no, no I'm just saying command of they just caring for their own rules, right like arbitrarily like out completely side of the states, laws and the federal government's was, I don't think that's what I'm saying I missed
Would it be crazy if they just you know, went like let's pretending My own country will do whatever we want. We're. Gonna, hang people, you know good idea. Yes, and you would be pretty Brianna, I don't think it is strange. There's this disease, pushing Paul here right, there's their sovereign. They can do they want they have these casinos by hold on hold on hold on what this do? You want now you're under the guidelines of the federal government state government? No, we want peace who want a little bit of this regulations in this and that it is it essentially not accepting the fact that their sovereign right, it's a fake, excel it's like you're, you're you're on your own, until start doing really well, hold on their now you're, not on your own yeah. It's really weird triangle of power, state, federal and tribal jurisdiction, and it's completely confusing
when I was a student. I was in a fellow with a program called you doll fellowship there was named after Stewart. All who said he was very strong environmentalist who did a lot of work to protect indian lands the environment, and so his name there there's a fellowship created and its funded through congressional appropriations every year, and so now you're making me forget my story here: arms are so when I was a and in turn back in the day- and I was in the Clinton White House- that's a whole another story, I'm completely lost. I completely lost my sight
I am sorry no worries. I need more tumor coffee. We could build it back. So what we are talking about. Was the federal government not allowing the native Americans to have real soon. Seventy over their land and then we went from there to you, have any store that I interrupted by trying to ask what that guy's name was damn or what he did. What was the last time you Stuart you'd are, and what did he do again? He he was Congress and Andy. He did a lot of good things, fur Indians, but that's it. River sky. It's gone its forever gone. No word sector in my brain somewhere. So what when you, when you look at that situation, the casino situation where now all the sun. Economically these tribe,
can thrive in the the reservation that owns that casino can thrive in as your saying the money, He goes straight back do the reservation and to the people that run it in and legitimately helps the people that live on that reservation, cracked. Absolutely what other things like that can be done to also take advantage of the fact that there are sovereign nation and allowed them to economically thrive without things like fracturing and shit. That's bad for the environment, other other things that are being implemented. That could also help oh yeah apps, Lastly, there are all different types of economic development going on in indian country. They can be very
successful for external businesses too, because there are certain benefits in and outside business would get if they did, for example, manufacturing within indian country. They could benefit from certain tax exemptions and and and and rebates that they wouldn't get in, and date. So if, if true, if corporations would would go into indian country, instead of you know going across the border or going somewhere else, there would be great opportunities, but in some tribes are taking advantage of those business opportunities. Not just gaming, but out of gaming, has grown a lot of a lot of investment, a lot of
Entrepreneurship in tribes in a lot of the money has gone back to help, educate and teach language and bring items back that are religious items in an ancestor in hand. The thing that are important for that tribal nation. So theres many different ways of investment that the tribal nations look out and not necessarily economic. But it's about healing their people and in helping us survive and and live better than we have in the past. So investment takes many forms, an indian country. Are there any good documentaries that can educate people on the the reality of what happened to the native american tribes,
because it seems like it's one of the best ways for people to absorb information and get people excited about things. It cuz it kind of entertains them as well as educates them it is there any you can recommend so much has been produced. I think you know PBS has put on some really good. I mean if you look at at PBS even now, there are some great stories that are being told. Now know it seems like something someone to do right, but it's gotta be done in indian country. It's gotta be done you with indian country because
So much has been done without us and arm without are even input were so much research and kind of one sided story telling that the just doesn't make sense. It doesn't have the cultural competency, it doesn't. Have the real life lived experience in the flavor. I guess for lack of a better word to tell these stories properly. Ideally, when you look at the future of native american tribes in the United States and again, as you said, you know, native American and that are in these reservations are United States citizens, but it's it's so unusual situation that really really have a comparison to Canada with their first nations, what what do you think happens in the future? What, when you, when you go from one thousand nine hundred you were talking about the the the pass of one thousand nine hundred and two
it's a abysmal hundred twenty years other than the economic success of the casinos. What are you? What are you interest, been happening in the next hundred years, it's it's hot. Do tell. I know a lot of tribes have been diversifying their economic development. Without our cultures were won't survive, in fact many elders and you may have read it and in black elk- speaks that on that We are no longer who we are without our culture, without our languages in likely will no longer be recognised by the federal government. Unless we are indian enough, you know so those things are really important to who we are and the next hundred years, and I think it's it's those things that we will be rebuilding over the net.
Hundred years, healing from the last and and moving forward with a new found understanding of who we are and in a stronger identity and and and self what that actually looks like an and what's important. I think that We are so still so dependent on the great White Father and what happens with the? U S, politics and whether we have a voice there or not. We ve got great organizations that help advocate for indian country in general. There is a national Congress of American Indians, which has been around for about seventy five years, and it helps lobby and educate Congress and keeps tribes informed about what's going on in politics and advocate for many of those interests
Other groups like ours that are advocating for more cultural, revitalization and strengthening identity and protecting our youth. So I think part of what were were we ve been building is, is really a coalition of of organizations and and tribes to strengthen who we are and kind of correct the misfortunes of our history. I know we, we still have tribal shines out. There that are are living with a grievous poverty in hand and issues that still seem so far away from being corrected but you know, like my grim, always said where there's hope where there's life there's hope. So I think we just continued. I mean weaves
Freakin survived for this long. In this corona viruses and gonna take us out either I mean we're gonna continued to to push forward and and and try to have a better future for our kids dislike anybody else. Just like anybody else, and I think that's what's important as that? We're not we're not on the stage with everyone else were not at the table where decisions are being were not in the room where it happens. The native Americans are not being treated with the same respect as other people from other countries, so that the culture of Mexico or the culture Guatemala or know how they're not in their not being treated well, but we respect them as a culture like they're there thought of as mean when aiding Mexico. I'm saying bother with it. You're, not you're, really waiting order, walls and we're not look. At them as something in feed. Looking at them is another country. We don't look at
of Americans. The same way we look at any big, maybe it's because You are also unites its citizens, the but dont. Look them the same way? We have the same like the respect for the people who live in a sovereign nation, another sovereign nation. Even though this is a sovereign nation. Inside of our nation, it doesn't, I think you would agree, doesn't get the same- respect that other sovereign nation. Five hundred absolutely. Is there a great record like written record of all of the origin stories like you were talking to me about and all of the various languages I mean is all this documented to make further. We don't lose this some better than others, and a lot of that is done. There is no big text that I can.
I can give you and share with you the here's all all what you ever needed to know about Indians that doesn't exist. I think probably, should I know That's up to the the tribal nation decide whether they want to share that in an end and how to best educate people about who they are
And that's what you know so many other people have told our stories and have taken down those histories and all those people are telling the stories from a western perspective and non from not having the cultural competent carpet competency in having lived and implemented. That way of life, so it's really dependent on on the tribes to determine for themselves how they wanted to put that forward. There are many tribes, it actually have research protocols, if you want to do you, want to study, when a research you have to get authority from the tribal nation to that end and they have to have a say in and whether it was done appropriately. So again, it's back to
us telling our own stories us being part of our own narratives and in us being part of the decision making that affects us our respect and pursue them on a percent, when not what I meant was inside the tribe. Is there a documented version of all these stories and of the language, so they can be passed down. I ate the real rights CERN seems to be when you talk, about these incredibly impoverished communities. There, the real concern that some of these stories may be lost, or some of these some of the language may be lost their high. I think it varies like a said. There's five hundred and seventy four federally recognise tribes in three hundred other tribal groups, Let me tell you the story about the two Marcia who are in Louisiana like surrounded by.
Marshes right there in the Gulf of Mexico, their last language speaker died in the nineteen fortys and even though they had. You know language speakers around them. None those languages were related to theirs. Their language was more closely connected with peoples in in Mezzo America, So obviously there was a trade that was a relationship between who the cinema are in were with people from Mezzo in South America yeah I mean there. There is amazing histories and stories out there, but but what happened with their languages is in Eightys and Ninetys. The Smithsonian had all these wax cylinders of of
I'd tribal languages and songs and dances, and they started repatriating those back to different tribal nation. So when the chips macho got, these whack cylinders there, like all, we have a responsibility here. We have to do something with this, and so they pulled their community together in every one. Every one you know got the grandma's and our aunties in every one to pull together words that they nude stories that they knew different cultural practices and in building and and and crafting. All of those things pulled all that, together with the wax cylinders, they got some money from Rosetta Stone and Crete, re created their language that had been lost, and today in their schools in their tribal run schools, they speak their language. Those children are speaking their language from kindergarten up so
credible success story. Now they were able to do that because they had gaming revenue to help support that an and when you go to the school and when you hear the story about how that happened, it's it's. It's incredible So there are stories like that among all tribes of how they ve been able to recover from what was lost, and so it's it's a long process to correct what has happened, but there are warriors all over India Country in that that's what they're doing every day is, is trying to recover what was lost. Well, that's a great success story and it's beautiful here. I just hope that can contain you, with all the different stories it just when you read books about native american culture in just skits.
Sort of like the most surface taste of what it must have been like. It seems like there's this incredibly rich history that could could be lost in time and I'll be a horrible horrible. Shame it's right here in front of us in its it's here right now. And the fact that someone like you worked so hard to get this message out here and to let people know what what is actually happening and that the plight of these American Indians and the tribes and what they're still going through today- and this is not a battle that happened in the eighties hundreds is about what is happening today right every day, every day What what is currently a major focus for you? Well, the repatriation and sacred sites issue, so red turning cultural items in ancestors back to their affiliated tribes
a lot of going out there so, like I said there is that law, the native american Grace Protection and Repatriation ACT. Dat requires any institution that received federal funding or federal agencies to work towards repatriation of items Dave received over time back to their tribes, but There are also tons of ancestors and items and in international museum, so we're working on developing strategies to go after those, because a lot of those countries that there has been kind of. A re thinking about the purpose of museums and and public education regarding indigenous peoples, and How do we d colonise these institutions and so were trying to work?
in some countries are easier than others, because if you have a sacred religious items from american indigenous societies, in some museums across the waters, their country considers it there are cultural property, so you need an act of their country's gum. Met in order to deal session, those items and in return them home. So there are some countries that are much more difficult to work with than others, but we are in the process of developing strategy to help internet with international repayment. Asian were also trying to watch private collectors and educate people about the importance of of returning cultural power. Romania and other sacred items that they have received over time whether or not there is a legal obligation to do there. There is definitely an ethical
and moral obligation to return these items so that that culture is can be revitalized and that those items can be put back to use So that's one one area. We have a repatriation conference every year that we worked together with tribes and institutions and in foreign governments too, to work on these issues sacred sites I just as was before The indigenous Peoples Sub Committee in the house a few weeks ago. Talking about what going on at the border and that to hunt chairman was there as well to talk about those issues and ass. He spoke. He was. He was telling the Congress representative that he just found out that there were blowing up another section. You know so it's it's in that is, happening because there was a law in two thousand. Five did allowed department of Homeland Security.
Away all these environmental laws, and if there was an emergency to do so and so The administration is is saying that the order wall is, is an emergency that allows them to waive all these environmental laws, and so it's not just about protecting sacred sites all the other environmental concerns all the the animal migrations birds plants as and water quality that are being affected by this border wall, because people strongly think we need a thirty foot. You know tall border, so sober working. We continue to work protect sacred sites so along the border, while where, where they're doing this and putting in the wall, many these areas have been designated as sacred science, and so is that what's
What you're saying yes are known sacred sites and then artifacts there and all sorts of different things it could be destroyed by the construction phase. They blew up an area in found human remained Jews, nor do they stop when they do that they repatriated those bones and they kept going so this this out. That's it that's it. That's it they're just moving forward. They did. I identify the bones due note for the rest of the culture that might have existed now. They're moving forward in, and you know what they're saying and so on and in the room.
Rick around. This is so detrimental because during during that hearing, it was clearly about how do we protect sacred sites in and how do we make sure that the tribal consultation and other options can be presented so that the environment and other areas are protected and the republican congressmen that was there? It was really quite seems, like not a nice guy basically said there is more damage caused by migrant traffic trash indefinitely.
Then there is by blowing up the ground, and so that is the Department of Interior Homeland Security and and Republicans in Congress or saying about that border, won't, stop and think about others on challenge. How ridiculous a thing that is to say you could pick up trash rig up shit. We can't pick up once you blow up sacred sergeant bone is for ever and its irreplaceable. These are irreplaceable resource, but the fact that nobody challenged among without such a ridiculous thing, We we challenge them in and Deb HOLLAND who is native american congresswoman, definitely towns him about that. But you know it's I think the laws on their side is it safe. Say that there's many areas that you're talking about along the border that are probably undiscovered cause, you're you're dealing with things that are potentially thousands of years old, so
Remember, undiscovered has different meanings. So tribes may have understandings about certain areas that other people do not that they try to protect in. So that's why consultations? so important in working with tribe. So you can understand what's going on on the ground, but usually they do some kind of of minor investigation and end. Supposedly that was done. That is being done, but nothing is being done to protect it. So it's known but So even if they consult with the tribes and the tribe say this is this area is essentially a burial ground from a thousand years ago, and our ancestors use this. They got that whole story. We're gonna, put a wall here, but that happens
not just happening at the border. That's happening all over the United States now so in an that's nothing new what's new here. Is that all of those environmental laws and those opportunities for public comments? So it's not just tribal consultation, but even public comment have been completely waved. Those stories always weird me out when someone's building an apartment building and they stop construction, because they found some sort of burial centre, If you like right, like how many of those are out there, I mean how many how many areas where people are digging into the ground they are going to find some incorrect Or archaeological discovery and it's it's getting smashed by a bulldozer, yeah it
since all the time, and so a lot of our allotted contacts for what was happening here before Europeans came is gone because we ve just destroyed all the evidence of it. You know. So that's why often the way archaeological investigations have have moved forward, as is they look it discreet sites without connecting the dots in a more holistic way about. Oh, what's happened in a certain area, so all most of our archaeological context and all that evidence is gone and it continues to be deluded by amateur archeologists and, of course,
you know I've. I've worked on many different development across the country. Where you know the bulldozers come. Oh, they see. There's human remains therein, interest dump it into the Phil Real yeah, because because I don't want to report not money to stop across the show on a mere it's amazing. Me that there's some sites you could just visit like Buffalo jumps where they ran buffaloes off. The cliff like a friend of I was telling me about this is site the he go to and, like you just go. There. He's ok, find indian points there like. Really? U fine, arrowpoints, see and laying around what should be is priceless. Archaeological record of native Americans and each spectrum up yet
go to any little little town across the country and you'll see a little antique shop somewhere in and you go look on their walls and there's gonna be archaeological evidence there without any context, without any understanding of where it came from whether its pieces, a funeral object, arrow heads are or what have you. The arrow had one unbelievably come. Oh yeah, I found one I found one in Nevada. I was on a hunt and we're in the mountains, and I found the sole tiny cheerfully we're non federal land or I don't know what we're on It's it's public land. We was a public land hunt. It would be how to draw a tag for it, but we found this little and it was crazy to look at you know I'm looking at this little tiny piece. It was like a white, I don't know what type of rocket was made out of, but it just it was stunning. Like to hold them to think like this. This was someone's weapon. The dairy in the hunt with who knows how long ago?
who knows how many hundreds of years ago I just stumbled upon it, and I think that's why we're so fascinated Americans are so fascinated with Indians is cause they're all around us. I mean you know we're standing and that's one thing I forgot to do when we started this interview is to recognise the land where we're standing now which is regional, landed, the to Mass and Tom, VA people where they are still here did at yes right here of Alan yes, yes, these are indigenous lands everywhere were restored and our indigenous lands and what's interesting, is the. We don't recognize that here there are other countries like, for example, in Australia have any kind of public event or governmental gathering or whatever, and they recognize who were there before them
You know there is an acknowledgement, there's a recognition. We ve gotten all that history. We ve forgotten what was here before, even though the people are or are down the street. The two masses is is north: they heard the tongue of our south. Those people still exists this and do they have reservation on her so Tom via not federally recognised. The true man wanted three hundred. There are not right right in an in California. I think. There's a hundred and four federally recognise tribes in California. California, history and arm You are aware the mission system right and in California and system mean religious mentions, yeah and the spanish missions. They were built up the coast in California in and the effect that those missions had on the did indigenous peoples that work
here. I know about the effort to convert them because hawk catharsis, the huge issue at the turn of the twentyth century, right, an aunt em. There are no mass grave sites at every one of those missions of of indigenous peoples. You note thousands of indigenous peoples die I'd building those missions in and from disease in an otherwise I mean, I mean think about it. If, if there are some teachers and professors at that, do different kind of work with their students and and there's this one kind of exercise of giving everyone in the class a role that you have in your son.
I d. You know so whether you're you know tending agriculture or you're, making closer you're, protecting the children or you're getting food or or whatever it is, and then ninety six percent of you are gone. What do you do? Can you am, I can't imagine what so many of our our ancestors must have lived through and, and I know, for myself personally what's driven me in my life, is my grandmother telling me those stories of what she and her family had to go through to be here in and saying we did that We went through all that, so you could be here and you could do something better for us. I mean that's what drives us all is is the pain that our ancestors went through in trying to make
life for ourselves that are better hey. We want. We want a piece of that manifest destiny. He too, and we want it back right. You know so these issues. Are we take you to indian country so terms. I would love to worsen ago, o heck. Do you wanna go forward with only two girls, so I think it would be important if you or anyone else would be interested in a most. Rival nations have websites where you learn about who they are with their history is and different policies and things that are important to them. Think it would be important to go to a more affluent tribe and also good I tried it- maybe doesn't have that same level of economic development, and you can find out anywhere you
find out here in California, in Nevada, in Washington, state and in New York. There many places we could go. You tell me and I'll tell you where you can go was work some dunno. I would really like to do that. I have my friend: campaigns went to an Apache reservation in Arizona. I believe last year when he said that there is actually a cave that day windup in bars on two key people from stealing the artifacts, but there's arrows in there and human remains, and they have left them in their mean to something like that. Is unbelievably fascinating, that this exists and it just exists on this reservation- is sitting there and that, but most He bore are not even aware, MRS, like an unbelievably sacred part of history. That's right there right right and in those places are constantly
being looted. There was a time in american history, fifty sixty seventies, where you could get these beautiful across country maps right and many of those maps would have placed is where there were indian artifacts in places that you could go in and dumb loafers, often in and get stuff. So so a lot of things like I have been published throughout time and so folks that our interests did in doing that and make their living doing Matt. You know they rely on those those old documents and and dumb. Where is worth things are in and dumb, are still looting and selling those items today. I think we in the West have this idea that if something is historic, we should be able to look at it you're right. I wish we could go to a place the Smithsonian or this or that are in and go see it. I think
what you're saying is we have to kind of re look at that and that it's not ours to look at and that this is a part of the tribes in the part of your culture, and this is not something you can just gawk at. Even I mean time, I never even thought about looking up bones that looking at bones to be disrespectful until I thought about anyone. Houses head, sit narrative, museum, recurrent factor, yeah yeah. That's it is its requires. A shift in perspective right and I think that's all tribal nations are asking people to do- is to think differently about
these issues and and recreate a new and more appropriate myth about our collective history, and let us decide for ourselves what we want to share what we don't want to share and I think what you'll find is is, as that indian nations of shared a lot. So this this work on native american Graves Protection or Repatriation act where those museums thought they were can lose all their collections and their selves would be cleaned out, no exhibits anymore. What they found instead was that they actually feel out what the hell they ve been holding onto this whole time, because now there actually talking to the people who who have experience, expertise and cultural knowledge about these items that are in their color. Actions, so all of a sudden information that they never have
before, and so the relationships that have been built between zooms in those institutions, and tribal nations has as a built something completely different than nobody had contemplated before, just from talking to native people in an understanding what those things are and where they come from and what should be shared and in what should be there still louder museums holding out, though, and usually those are the big well funded institutions, and what is there was the argument they don't have. An argument. What's interesting is: is I summer once dead, you know we're just waiting for a lot old white people to die. I mean that's dead. Yeah, that's right really the case that there is just this old perspective, this old philosophy, this hoarding philosophy, not wanting to get things back,
in their defence. Could it be that there really concerned that that stuff would be lost and that that is yeah and working historical right and so the The mission of many museums is to educate the public and arm. There is this kind of arrogant what I would consider an arrogant way of thinking about about the world, like everyone should have access two on knowledge and and and tribes. Don't necessarily filled that same way. So there is that kind of that philosophy, and so those institutions will often use the law to work against their repatriation in situ Shannon and delay mostly delay, most tribes that want to fight against institutions like that, because
For one thing, they dont have the capacity to fight dad, because there are so many things on a table already and and another reason to bring that kind of discord around these sacred items or around ancestral remains is, is difficult ah. So you don't want to bring you no bad energy around something that you need to care foreign respects and in an put back in the ground. So You know that there is a lot of reasons why these bigger and Petitions are getting away with not following the law, and they take advantage of it
So that's why my my organization is important, because we try to help bridge that it seems like some sort of cooperative effort could be reached where the things that the tribes would like people to see in would like to educate. People on could be displayed in maybe some sort of a National Museum of native american really. That is an awesome idea. So there is our animals. Called the National Museum of the american Indian Workers in Washington DC. It's also yes, it's also in and it's it's gotta on the British to come up with ideas. It's got a pretty screwed up story, though, of how the National Museum in American Indian got started, but I also want to mention before I forget those wonderful tribal museums, so there are tribes out there that have their
Museum in our guys, we're producer to Leyla in Washington and stay Washington state, whereas other Dat, Leyla pits outside of Seattle, Hooker culture Center Saguenay Chippewa tribe in Michigan hope I always get. My M states wrong, in in Michigan, they have the z, booing centre of honest snobby life ways and cultures Amazing museum. I think they're they're there, one of my favorite chalked on nation, my my nation in Oklahoma, building a new cultural centre and museum, so the north- or maybe that's an outsider- do rant! Is there a timeline on that when they believe that very soon, very I'm in Oklahoma couple modest supposedly well yeah rather than now
to exactly what was bitter, I'm doing gigs in Oklahoma supposed to be there. I think some time in July you nowhere in Oklahoma up to one. I know you know him, September. Siano know what matters to me: twelve, ok, toss right, yeah, sometimes yeah September, eleventh them in Lincoln, Nebraska in September. Twelvemonth took toss. Oklahoma here said, Tell says, North. I know talk talk that South Eastern Oklahoma, so it's a bit away. Those new post box centres, odors and also well. They'll be Dumbarton. Oh yeah, if not the Chickasaw nation, has an amazing cultural centre, so Datsun Sulphur Oklahoma, I believe they ve got a great
museum there and, and really that's that's a great nation to talk to I often considered affecting to be Chickasaw really do have to be adopted, and I think that the tickets are kind of like our our little brothers, but they have. See our nations were heavily affected by Christianity, and so the talk donation nation of Oklahoma is very proud of the fact that its been able to maintain its languages through on christian hymnals and singing christian music so so my nation really is, is christian. But there are many other nations in Oklahoma that I've spent
more time within my own and that's took saw in an creaking and seminal nations that are also in Oklahoma that still maintain their stop dances and other traditional pagan rituals. So I tend to favour those yes here it some. It really is an amazing story and sad story, but a fantastic story as well the story of the native american culture and life in this country and then what it's become, and I don't think it's told enough. I think I don't think more amazing, I'm you know a barely scratch the surface You did I mean I could keep me here all day. I'm sure- and it's been it's been a very interesting dialogue, because part of this is trying to figure out what is it you want to know when you think that you're listeners want to know about this castle. Sing I want to do is. Is
to offend your listeners, because I really want every one to come away with. Bringing about native american history and what's going on in indian country, not offended and not with any kind of distaste, because I think this is our history that we share together and I think the only way we are going to change things as if we change you know the general public and how the general public sees she's indian, can you have to worry about if an overdue offended, anyone and I've been be an Listen my answering my back and I'll be offence. I would love me to my answers of my ancestors, Sir I'm third generation, so my ancestors have nothing to do with this. We came over for Europe, we don't know anything
what the fuck is going on here before we know my ancestors, all italian and irish rivals riot and they had to give up oh up a lot of their culture when they came into the most yeah yeah yeah. I remember talking it's it's interesting to me, so much has changed a member when I was a boy talking to my grandfather. My grandfather would talk to me about what it was like to emigrate here from ITALY and how marble they were treated and racism against Italian was just so prevalent in common and horrific the things it he would tell it were terrible and I've never experience racism against Italians. It doesn't exist anymore and in just the three generations train my grandparents, my parents. In me, it's gone essentially this being an Italian, his countrymen, there's some people that have prejudices about all sorts of different cultures. But that's just rare. It's weird. You know, whereas mexican
This is super. Come right prejudice against Mexicans dealing with this all this wall, bullshit and what's going on between in other indigenous people, sure yeah well, not only that they own Fucking California, eighteen. Hundreds right, I mean that's part of the sun in the morning star, sudden part, that book is talking about Mexicans and the? U S, troops fighting over California, it's a big part of it and ignore need. American out. I mean it's kind of does, but I mean it's look in some ways, Mexicans or native Americans right Maxie, and they are absolutely they absolutely yeah so now that I'm sure they share a lot of dna? I mean there's a lot of Mexicans and our friends with a look like they could be. We now complete native american there. Where do you. Yes, we do without
that's why they speak spanish right. Spaniards came and met with executions, the original Mexicans and introduce their land. They weren't Mexicans and indigenous people write an end dislike. You know well trained to everyone you know they they sent there. They actually trained dogs to rip people apart. They I mean that maybe I'm I'm I'm getting off the subject now. But you know Catholicism came over here, and they have this thing called a Paypal ball and it was basically the catholic law, and so these Spaniards would hammer the paper. Ball into a tree and speaking spanish to the indigenous indignant,
swirled saying. If you dont convert, we will slaughter you right, that's what you're a he, then you must converge, or you know We're gonna, kill you and, of course nobody knew what the hell they were saying because they didn't speak Spanish and they would sick these dogs on them. I mean there's theirs, horrendous stories that are told by the missionaries that were there with the Spanish, you know to bring their their salvation in its just horrendous. Some of the accounts of this in an that's just and reach and that's what I was looking. Fifteen hunt it's not that long know it. It seems like it is: it's five lifetimes five human beings living to a hundred five five lives ago. People were doing that, but we still carry this with us. I mean These stories are still part of of the narrative that we told in and I guess we're still telling them telling it, because people haven't
send or they're still on. These stories haven't been tied, its they'd they have met, taught is almost too much to teach and it's very convenient since you know we air quotes are the victors, so we kind of can rewrite history or at least least make that part of history, not important in. I had a bit that I did my my act about President's about electing presidents, and I was like you just gotta realise United States was found in said one thousand nine hundred and seventy six in that people live to be a hundred and that's three people ago, like we literally just got here, we just got here and now in the course of a three people's lives, we have skyscrapers and planes and pull gin and we're second artificially the ocean and we ve wiped out most of the history of the indigenous people and its it's great easy mean it really is a very strange fact that
is so often overlooked if, on a day to day basis, how often do we discuss native american history? How often do we discuss the the battles took place? The lives were lost. The people have died of from disease, the trail of tears. How often is discussed in this country. I think there's five or six million of this that talk about it every day that that's that's, that's in Indigenous people Argyll Jaso, so were keeping alive and and like I said that there is a lot of yours- not many of us comparatively, but we're out there and were all doing double time to work to push this out into the public narrative and it's been
really really hard? Well, I really appreciate your efforts and I really appreciate your humor me in coming here in and teaching us and educating me about. What's you know how you feel about things and in this the stories that you came here to talk and down, I think what you do is very very important. I am very happy that you out there. I'm happy that you took the time in this calamity in chaos and pandemic to to risk your health and come and make this trip. Now I'm gonna be isolated. When I get home, my family's put me in the basement to Jamie doesn't have the goodies all these fine, I'm clean as a whistle so you're good. I idiotic is there else we could talk about foiling. We can talk about tons of stuff, but I think,
What I need to tell you is that the Association on American Indian Affairs has been around for a long time and we are rebuilding our capacity to look into the next hundred years. How we want to move forward. I would love to have input from your listeners about what they think they need and what their questions are about. Indian countries will need to work out an email, no I'm not it'll. Before we have it. We have our, but we have a website. Oh God, only good enlightened people can work it out, but does that's a wonderful, ordinary there's so much we can do together and people who are interested in in getting to know more about what's going on in indian country or aren't getting involved in helping out What's humbly? Beware: the NGO Indian DAS Affairs, DOT org, indian dash of Aristotle; ok we'll send people to their
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Transcript generated on 2020-03-18.