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I just finished it on audio tables. Fantastic, it's called Savage Sunday is the latest in his series of books. I was actually supposed to start with terminal list and then go to. True believer and then Savage son, but I fucked up- and I did it this way. But the way, I'm very happy as a great book riveting thriller and they're going to her into a series starring Chris Pratt, which is very exciting. He just great cancelling of good things about them. It was a pleasure. Haven't I'm on the show and a very interesting conversation. Please welcome the great and powerful jack com The will gain experience and will I think it's up. Thanks have me on my swathes of my pleasure: did

you get a gazelle you you know when we first met. I knew you were an author and I knew the Chris Pratt was involved in doing that thing with you and that you guys we're working towards making the sea which is happening now is very exciting, crazy, but I never read any work until now, so getting ready for this actually listened to the audio book, which is really well done. The guy who reads it. What is his name rapporteur, he's fucking great yeah he's a little disturbingly. Does a girl's voice he'll get around the guy's gonna grow voice, especially put an accent to let no getting around the collegial art of low weird. But you you take became so good at like russian accents and then south african accents and it's a really good book. Man fuckin riveting. I could cite is hard to put down it's. It's really good and most, when I listen to either on work out walking hikes with the dog or in the sauna, a perfect place unless it doing I burn through it in a few days

It's really good man, the add you know like half the characters, the what people that were inspired by actual. I know that was it's crazy, like so many people. Whether was you know what on Dudley or bark love or you know, have face blades like black right we'll call for both, for there are so many different things said so, everything's Lester hedge, not to two very, not to talk about gear, just two thousand gear guy before I went the navy and then, of course, in this year, teams you're like yes, your time to shine until I go down these rapid holes and try to make the gear at or anything that's gonna make you more effective and efficient on the battlefields. They really gets it go all in and then just after the military same thing, it was a gear eyes or be strange just to say he pulled out a rifle I thought I couldn't do it actually, but you wouldn't sit right when you were in the seal team. Did you think you were ever going to become an author? Is something that you always had the back your head? You would like to dabble in some day. Like you, I wasn't even a thing I was gonna dabble in it was. I was going to do it and since our little kid my mama's librarians, I grew up

surrounded by books and the love of reading from a very early age and back than myself the gaieties are hardly anything written about seals about what there is genuine is a lot of homes from fiction. So monogamous, indifferent stories by guys, like Tom Clancy, David Morale, Nelson De Mille wage equality, all these guys in the eighties who had protagonist with backgrounds, I wanted to have a real life one day and I enjoyed reading them. So much I knew that after the military, then I would write so I just said. The path, so you had kind of map it out, join them. I turn first joined the seals and then after you retire and how many years were you in for a twenty year end for two? and during that time you would always I out that going to be an author when you're done when he thought it like. While I was gonna, wasn't writing I was in practising, but I was reading some first, I'm a fan I'm always a reader of fiction Anon. So

guys I read in the eighties those like my professors in the art of storytelling and then a couple that, with the academic study of warfare, terrorism, insurgencies, counter insurgency and then the practical application from Afghanistan from Iraq, and then it all kind of came together at the time and place us at all getting out over the last like year year and a half, then I started writing cuz. I wasn't taking guys down range anymore. My job was essentially to get out of the military and cuz. It's you feel like you're, the first person to do it, even though people do it. Day, but you walk in immediate somethin signed. There were meeting targets read out of a secret programme or medical or done also your job becomes to get out of this gigantic bureaucracy so Durham. I think I get you I mean thereby doing really my jacket into any of it. He's. Just like you laugh at you, but of those who died on the big lie. You I didn't. Do these transition classes you're supposed to doing you sit there in his rooms and people drone on and on about transition from options for you in it awful horrible, but

I did it. I thought you had to get some inside and off you go. We don't have to do it. Why did you do just joggled? Didn't you think? That's what you told me like nodded and lose no time to do it right now is that you have to do this. It really good luck. So so you are planning all along to write, and so during that time, while you, we're being deployed and while you're you know, you're being a seal in the back of your head, though always a part of the plan, the those when I'm done with this, then I'll do that. So I wasn't think like how to set it up, and you know anyone in publishing didn't know anything, but I knew that one day. That's it I would do and it wasn't even a question clearly had equal enthusiasm for being seals. Well, yes, you have had to be separate, sad to be one hundred percent, all in on being a sea, because you have two hundred zero, the guy's under command. When you going downrange s what you owe their families, the country, the mission

when I got home from the last directive, women and took a breath and looked around and saw my family needs me have been gone for quite some time, even when your training and in your training you're out for three weeks here, two weeks there month there getting ready to deploy. So it's not just the six to seven want the points. It's all that time spent training up to go down range with your team, so I knew that my family need me. It's time to get out so is very clear. Wasn't hard disk, Many of us I'd I'd gotten to the end of my time, wearily tactically guys on the battlefield. That's a troop commanders! That's where Java was when he did his last appointment as a troop commanders and o four, which is a major and the other services lieutenant commander in the Navy, and after that, you understood here by a leading from behind, essentially her than tactical operation, centering morbid manager type later you're, not out there kick indoors with the guys, which is what we all come entity or most of us come into do anyway. So I knew that that part of my life was over. There was time to transition to hear the family so

Tom start writing, did you take journalism, classes or writing classes or nobody's all the reading? All that really I did grown up. My mom introduce me to a guy named Joseph Campbell, beckoned ain't. I am sure that you did a series of interviews with film lawyers on PBS all down the power of myth and he wrote a book called here with a thousand faces so back in eighteen, eighty, eight and so on are no eleven years older. Whenever tutorial I get introduced to him, and I read that book and I watched elbows interviews and I read the book, it came out all the power of myth based on those interviews, and I think I applied. Paradigm that model of the Heroes Journey, the monolith to really every every movie. I watched every series I watched every book I read from then on and that really helped as I made the transition because I had this foundation, it wasn't just like. I woke up one

and said, no one can make money in writing. That sounds like a good thing to do. All uncle back and read and I'll go back and see. You cannot figure out the history of this hombre, no hurry. I figured out because I did in my whole life and it was that foundations that was already there and what was in the military. I kept breeding for fun, read those fiction book still, and I discovered Stephen Hunter and Brad Thor Events, Flynn and Daniel Silva and and now more grainy. Today's are those that Canada, though the coda bigger names in the jar and but then I was also studying, studying all on fixed, Stop trying to stay up on my game to make might make the best decisions I possibly could under fire for the guy's when it mattered. So just always studying always reading when I was downrange, never really watched a movie or play video games. Who is always if I wasn't out operating reward to bring together a target package was reading. That's interesting, because I would think that most people that would venture and become a professional novelist. They would have some sort of background in writing because, as some sort of education, some class

education, english literature, something tat all reading. It was all I liked known. Why didn't like and the first novel is really all about revenge, because that beam resonated with me obviously resonated with people from getting of time from toil stories around camp fires usually told in way to pass on some sort of a lesson about something to the next generation, so they don't have to learn the same lessons in blood, but there told as a story and passed down that way, and I think that's why there's only death wish movies. Nor just because you can't someone catch, you haven't traffic. You can't go on do something to someone work. Their simple Did you get the promotion over every get mad? He can't do anything about it, but you can in the pages of a novel you can escape there. We can escape in a movie theater and you can see somebody that goes out and guesses revenge and it makes you feel good cause. You know you can't drugs in real life. If you do it, you gonna go to jail ahead of the death penalty, it's not possible, but you can do it and if you can explore all that in the pages of fictional thriller, so I think it's. Why resonates with

with people and then in this particular case I got to take the emotions and feelings behind things. I was involved in downrange and then just apply them to a fictional narrative. So I don't have to talk to somebody is ahead and how to feel to be a sniper in Romania in two thousand five thousand six and then filter that, through whatever biases I had, or what our minds and past experience or whatever and then put it into a fictional narrative. No, I just took my experience and then just morphed it and put it into the narrative, so it would have been very therapeutic So did you approach an agent first like? How did you get started? Thank goodness I didn't know you're supposed to do that, because I probably still be looking for one today so very little research on that front, because I think that a lot of people study. How do you do something too much? for too long and it could be different everybody, but some people can study How did you something their whole life and never actually do it? You may have a certain amount of bandwidth, and for me I read so Stephen Press field has become a great friend now who's on the show.

A while back you I love you so greatly arrogate to fire alleging that bag advanced afghan campaign and it has a series of books creativity, the war of ourselves as to say that other people, right from a stack of another, is to keep the studio Yasser Visa he's amazed Actually I was, to him on the show before I started. Writing gave me the idea of writing a one word theme down to keep me on on point. So I revenge for that first, novel on a yellow, sticky. Pleadingly say this on your show, he's talking about somebody else who a playwright who would write a sentence to keep him on theme, but somehow through my filters. I heard him say one word theme on it, sticky on my computer, and I did that same thing, so what it is really what he said on the shell, but I took it as what he said and I wrote down and that really for the first book revenge, second book redemption and then fourth book. I marked Arthur Book and mortar little bit dark side, a man by tat. So those are the themes at will.

Kept me on track, but then you're on the fourth one right now you're on the world's wanting up. How long does it take you to do one the first one can take as long as you want, because you have to have four fiction. You have to have the finished product so convict you can sell it, can idea a chapter and outline something like Dolly recover from sports or politics can sell that idea. They know they're gonna get some sales. For this you have to have the whole manuscript done so the first one took about strive two years, and yet it is getting possibly get it now. We just Did you go to an agent, but I didn't know that. Thank goodness, because I didn't do it. I did that research. I talked about what Stephen Press fields books on creativity, war of art, authentic swing, turning pro do the work those rights even kings on writing. Davits girls who ask guaranteeing spoke so vast. It's all right! It's not biography! Really I am just about right here. Is his entire life David morality, society, successful novelist?

I think those were that those are the main ones that I read it and I was like: ok got it and I put those within sight of me and my computer, but I didn't touch him again and I'd, but there are their swords look to them for inspiration. As far as Stephen on our says, you're prefer Stephen Oppress field, says you're, a professional you're, a writer. You sit down right, writers block doesn't exist because it doesn't exist for dentists or truckers. Are doctors? Could doctors block, so you don't get riders block your professional and you write so just having than that close, really helped. That transition, and I made the decision to now once I was a seal and now I write something that really help, but I didn't know you needed, he needed an agent and thank goodness I didn't because otherwise, like I said, it's Toby looking for one, is also the gatekeeper

essentially in existence or even gatekeepers today. So it's it's tough, I think but lucky for me. A friend of mine sat next to guide him Brad Thor, who writes in the shadow of the character called Scott higher VAT, is a former seal and he's a great guy. My friends, I next to him at a one of these events, for to raise money for sale foundation. That thing and is I'm writing about four months in everybody says: hey you You know it's getting Brad Door and I said well yeah yeah. I know, but I read all the stuff and he said you wanna talk to you a minute you're in a book. I said: yeah love to talk to people to talk to me as a yet Posada, helped him with a couple things and in his books, so sure enough. He sets it open ash em up a Europe of and allay at the time I was trying to find a quiet placed her to have this call with Brad Door. So good a parking lot the attorney resort parking lot up: their sons beating down a mild in my language or to everything if, though, the engines, Aachen so loud and- and I thought I'd parent paper there, Sir

but now we have this great call in- and I was like I beg of you. You wanted to know like hey. Why do you want to write it almost aim stuff I'd tell you were tell everybody that I grew up loving reading and knew how to do that one day and by lobbying librarian and in no history, the genre and all that speaks I had about it- sends the passion and he's like I'd. So if you write a book what I can do for you Franco me some things you didn't seal teams and as a thank you for that I'll, let my publisher! No it's coming! I can't guaranteed open the baggage can guarantee the red. One word definitely cannot guarantee that the like it, but as a thank you, I can let them go coming? And I said that's all I need, and he said how long till you're down I said one year from today. So why he's he's like? I don't call me: how did just now gestures your first, but how did you know it one year from today you be done because our cause other guys that have serious characters have one book a year, and so I figured You're doing this definitely has about four months into. It sounds like I give or take a couple months so sure,

I am. I call them back one year from the day and he's a, but he said I dont go. Call me don't send me, actors- and I can give you any advice, digging Some advice on that call, but United bugging them throughout the year. Which I totally understand now and call them back here, no more from thence. It has done and to his credit it was so awesome, he said. Is it done or is it the best? You can possibly make it and I don't like it probably editing. Little bare, but it's finished a guy. Can we back again as they can advise that we use? I took another four months of reading it editing is ending. It took up her eyes and then call him back four months later and said this is the best I can possibly get it. All right? Let him know it's coming so how many hours a day do you think you were put in so it's not like ours. I mean I would love to get. I discipline type schedule like a dog or to have scheduled someday, but I'm not quite there yet, especially at this stage, where I'm still feel I shall feel like. This is start up, and I can't say no to a lot of things are needed.

The advantage of emerging opportunity is just like a word on the battlefield. Looking at the enemy, their learning from us we're learning from them. It's really who adapts quicker, you're lookin for those emerging opportunities, taking advantage of momentum looking for gaps that has the same things that you do for a start up or starting like a coffee shop somewhere. You have to do for writing and I didn't really get that at the outset. How so so, are you you're not just riding in sending it to New York, which is what I thought up until about the time I published the first one. I just went back and forth and editor a little bit, and then you start the next book. Well, really you have to do advertising branding co, branding your marketing. Stop your budgets, your social media, like anything you'd, have to with any other business that you're starting up. You have to do as an author NOME eyes like I treated it as a start up and started it like this in restoring somebody garage, your hungrier, passionate

and I ve seen an opportunity here there you and you just want to build this readership and let people know the of this character and see work. Oh so so it's been at a sprint, so point being at some point, I think you get to a stage where you can, they know and you have to sprint off in all these different directions. Almost at the same time- and you can say ok, nor am I do when I wake up at my right for four hours- and it doesn't matter someone calls for an interview or, if CNN, once you honor Fox NEWS, wants you on this matter, I'm going to my four hours and then after that then I'll check my tax, then I'll check my emails and if something comes up here, we can scheduled out labour later in the week, but right now it's just like really fast and Mount Bam about Martin and their knowledge that now not writing for re use, Actually it's the first novel and these standards than all the others were really between ten at night and about four in the morning, because that's the time was quiet and our house with three kids

wife and yeah. That's how you stand up writing to the same thing. When I went to sleep it's doing this work is there's. No one interrupting doesn't have a friendly feel like they can't workload. And they only work good if they get up in the morning and then right immediately there right even before breakfast so get nothing workin out like that to happen, the publication of the first book and then You got a little crazy and publicity stuff and listen staff and then arriving late at night. Also work on the next Want island that in and then you're editing one why you're writing another cigar in time we spoke a year, I programme, that's what you're, that's what you're doing and maybe I'll get pass at some point or harvests and date, and then I'll start the next one by right now not not quite like that. Yet so my mornings were taken up with get up early and not anymore. I need to get back after it, but in city where we live there, some crazy in shape people out there haven't. I know a couple of them so soon ass. We moved out thereafter the Navy there like a come. Come we gotta, go work out, but it's five thirty in the morning and whenever job has been opportune

where's. But for me, as pretty gradual, waken up at five get down there and do in these crazy trail runs cross midst of jumping in the pool do all sorts of greatest other. These guys put together. It's like live or six crossroad work out smashed into line with trail running with the indirect side yeah, like what group are you in with its doing? This is at a local jammer. Yet we go. We meet at the local Jim by TAT. Hoagie darling was see your skull. Candy he's like a human performance at all levels: emotional, physical, mental, spiritual like being the best like human. He can possibly be like in those guys are all out there they're out there gap and Eric Snyder another another guy, bigger his defender. One tat is used in some. My videos he's a big defender guy, but those guys are animals and animals and get up with them work out. Get home get the kids to school. If I hadn't schedule like that for a little bit, but then it all became pay for your work till four in the morning and getting up an hour and a half later, that's a little much

Yeah yeah! That's that's, always been a problem with comedy because you have to go late, you're, you're, testing, stuff out and in your home, and maybe you get home in you're right, it's home, then after you after you tested out something at the comedy club, you come home and make those notes yeah well, Finally, now the way now it can do shit when this crisis, the covered thing, was going on what I would do its own record. My sets on my phone and then on way home. I would listen to this sad and then, when I got home either I listened to a more our right. Sometimes I must do more than take notes and then right and try to adjust or just right on completely different subjects, but I just got to a schedule where the best writing I was doing was one known was home. Has I've been riding in the night here dad I gotta class dad on my wife would want to know something or someone else would need something. Our phones ring it took me to the more no one's colony examples. Its free area are free and then just and also its creepy.

Something about the darkness is key of your thoughts or weirder behind It- was a real hard time to get up and do like. I would do like at ten a dot m to get to class pride and when you're up at four. Crash in and try to get up six hours later or not in five hours later they get to the gym a little bit of food. Your stomach, it was too hard in Asia, listened ears, you video you just listen, but video is better. I really need Damon wagons. Hilarious communion has a a collection every set that he's ever done since the nineties. Real films, everything he brings a tripod in a fuckin camera and he sets it up in the back there films, every city does, and then he it's at himself and his computer, like that's nice level, that is next. I want you to overlook it down is so I got it for people on Amazon. You can leave reviews of books. Are there I for comedy clobber there? views of complex that go in there now mean that you don't know, then I'll wait a minute. You can't again

It's all at scale right when you get to a certain number of the number of people that are contacting. Look I'm at a place where I just Now some nine million Somethin Instagram followers or whatever the fuck it is like you can't you Senor that yesterday in is not good for you. For you positive or negative, like this, you should know what you do. Get out of here before me. I feel like I needed thank everybody in this morning's fortunate, that the books are resonating The people who really this whole things than a grass roots, second made this term of made the New York Times list, and it made it without like National news appearance with any these other bigger things. All right was hunters. It was tactical shooting people It was readers risk on a new author and then told a friend, and then that person took a risk and told another friend, Also, it's crazy. Then these company, like black rifle coffee, like those guys like they'll, better known businesses, area like Dudley, those guys at posted any stomp, like all those guys at all

held, it happens at island, but it still grass roots just like instead around the water cooler at work, its modern, social, I feel like, I need to get on say, thank you so much I've really pretty. As I do. I feel so fortunate and I really want to thank everyone, but I think I'm about at that stage. I can't do it anymore. I gave you a blanket. Thank you yeah. I dont our people dont think that I'm not thankful that's not the cases just for my own sanity and I've seen people they do get really to under the comments and they lose their fuckin mine. It's not healthy. Oh yeah, you can't do respond enemy native. If he's like a little weird, I do to block a vague and treat it like. If I owned a general store, small town, USA and behind the counter I own the place. Somebody walks into ass for directions.

Comes in screaming the inward. Do you treat those people Deborah Ann Kaye, wants directions in doesn't want to buy anything. I mean you like. You treat the Hated here's a hearing about the interstate shorter much in our right right. He has a good impression that there's someone comes and wants to buy a candy bars, six back or whenever you know he's pointing in the right direction conversation. So I treated gonna like that, like a treat people and so media the same way. I would if I was interacting with them the way we are right here, but just across the table at my my business, local, Jim restore yeah. I try to treat it like that, but I'm about at that point were there many people come into the store. I guess they I'd everybody by thy still so sincerely that IFOR for everyone they took a risk on me- is starting this year, Black and I can relate. I understand where you come from and I are used interact with people all the time online to, but then they got to the point. Where else like I see too many My friends like getting mad about things are or

engaging back and forth and haven't twitter wars of people than I realize I do worse way to communicate ever you can't you now assistance a good. It's also not just not a good effective way to express yourself with another human being. If there's any sort of a dispute or disagreement about things like the best. Express yourself as in person. I know you can't that with everybody, but it is not used you have so much time in the deadlines that it's not sent us our way to value your time earlier. That is their bandwidth. So I never worried about how hard it was to get allocating worry about how hard it was to get into the seal teams are due to get a buds. Knew that it was very hard and that for me, that was enough, so it can be done. That's p, I ve done it before and so even drawn up even on mid eighties. I'm still do unlike what today, people would call prospect who school at run the hill by the house. I go into the basketball hoop and then for myself.

Through you know, he's got pull up things in a way that jungle, given the backyards. I do some regular pull up their change, my grip punished, but a rope up in the back. Our job is doing that. Had my bo out said she the heart heart rate in everything so as to all those things that I was reading like sent in the art of archery, and I was reading both Minon fiction stuff on warfare, and I was reading the use those authors I talked about earlier than that moves John ROM writing in today. I was doing all that stuff and I wasn't brokers on how hard it was more. Oh, maybe I'm not gonna make it. Am I a good enough. My Paul, I may get myself as good as I possibly can by doing all the things that I think I need to do, and now you can type unlike navies, your work programme- and there are so many countries are to pick which won back there's nothing. It also my card, I see, I see I'm running in the sand. I see a couple pictures like that issues, guys in Vietnam, with these guns and like ok, I've seen a couple movie is it ok. What I'm gonna do. Ok, you climb is treated, is rope starve to these hills brands, so I just did that and

You have like a programme that you rode out or just nope wing. It helped us, as many can work out to hired, which is very similar. Actually, when I got to the seal teams were whose progress the days and all that, so you ran as far as you could as fast as you couldn't sand, and then you came back and lifted his heavy weight as you possibly good like that, like elsewhere, mayor Young eighty encyclopedia body building. That was the work out up and tell her We really do thousands so early two thousands. What changed but came on the scene with huge we adapted or adopted it fairly quickly consensus. Great until things go wrong, so I until your joint start gone or your back starts going the air by cross, but I just kind of mean functional failures. In general I mean the actual actual programme by but first yet programmes came out and people would get on and say, look like if this thing this is new, give it a shot with me. I took a look a little bit of time at some guys jumped right on land and but really

but it showed us and then right about that time also works, often, and all that we realise ok here it ten thousand feet in these mountains. You have a rock on your radio guy of automatic weapon guy, the tunnel ammo, then you're going to miss Compound and you're putting these ladders up and you're going through these winds, and sometimes her these spaces. You have to get into the clear where people are hiding or their hiding weapons so that encyclopedia body building running as far as you could as fast as you couldn't stand being or you did their pride better way, so we're gonna forcing Two. It essentially today do any work, were their monitoring, heart rate and checking recovery, and you know and trying to keep you at a certain heart rate. While you working they might now some a little David's like it out and summer of twenty. Sixteen and another trying to modernize a lot of things, as I was leaving those last couple years by two, so they there is possible. They do now one things that they did to that Incredible technology was in Hawaii

when I went through with with Andy they just pull you out of this earth. And they walked on shine, a flashlight, a flashlight in your eyes, and it's ok guys on the verge of hypothermia, he's about to die, pull him out, but then they have someone. Totally vine, and then that person this collapse as soon as the doktor walked by so they had people do start to take. These little are, if I d chips and swallowed them, and so they walk down that line and they hit you like this apple from Walmart and they get your core body temperature, so Lassa virus out, like two days until you passed it, but for the first couple days that's they did it because you are, if I d chip in your own and then you shit out after two days as that, They could tell your temperature yet another when they started doing that. They did certainly didn't do it in ninety seven one. When I went down so they're gonna, do this fuckin covered virus shabby we're gonna make swallow and our if I D chaired a year put it into your stamina, really worried about this tracking thing that they're trying to implement that are talking about South Korea's doing that to giving up a little bit of personal liberty and freedom like you can

kiss my ass to giving up a little bit of privacy. Now I'd rather wash my hands and stay home. I could give it back to gonna. Tell you something. Thank you. Don't know how many times have actually given for non zero, yeah there's! No away once they have that comes surveillance where they can monitor you, the tracking you, ok, so we can track everywhere. You go and measure you versus, all the other people that they know or infected. Did you come in contact with them? This guy's gonna and tat you don't need to get a reason. Tat now, you're registered okay. Now we're tracking you in every. Where you going to be tracked, you tell him They come up with a vaccine to just drop their tracking. Hey, go back to being completely free. No back! No chance! once they take those freedoms like you have laws, are never russian state ever rarely taken off the books right, everyone tat people on top, about bills that their sponsoring well. Are they getting rid of another one? Add that one or use at there's book called three felonies a day talks,

our guy wakes up and normal guy gets up in the morning goes to work comes home as dinner puts the kids and unbeknownst to him. During that day, he is committed three felonies, because there are so many laws on the books. You can't even keep track. American bar association can even tell you how many laws, or on the books, state local federal, international ones, that plan all sorts of different ordinances laws and your breakin at least three of them a day to commit a felony, its fascinating. Book and that there can give those back- and I think those freedoms back to have read a really disturbing thing today and I'm not even sure of his trousseau loose. We should find a right now. Creating clarity, click did this, CDC, stop tracking, flew deaths for this year, because what I read and might have been some wacko right wing website to those on you never know, but I was like this can't be true, because The real concern is that the CDC tracks flew and they find out the flu

is lower or the same as Cove id and while making a big deal at a covert, and then you know people right in the streets. I people can't hearted health who to trust it. But politicians- and you see why you don't trust either side and you see every trying to make a power grab and use this as a way to make power or hurt an opponent enamored exactly and even with the yes, the cdc you don't know their world health organization obviously can't tell their you can't trust information coming out of other countries, so people at home or dislike went away when I do first thing to do is just a stay where I am, but you don't know, we trust that it's very hard, it's very hard to figure who trusts and doctors are giving despair. What do we on their website? I'm seeing information up did as last week April. Eighteen for flew deaths fairly, it's on the CDC weekly flew surveillance Miss Oliver flew information. I could so how many people have died this year from the flew to take three go to find that information.

Because the covert death or what is it that now fifty five thousand? I think that my answer this country of these more right may be sixty thousand now closing in on it Which is not a small number, it's a lot of people, but then you find out that that that's a bad here for the flu, that's normal, but obviously this year we ve locked everybody down worldwide. Even in others does there has to be slower spread because of this kind containing and because the social distancing so you're. I would Imagine you getting far lower numbers and they would have gotten if everybody had just gone out into the streets. I have no doubt about that by no doubt for for a flu eyes, minor China, because that fourth novel, that I'm writing right now is deep into the study of infectious diseases project. Perfect timing, crazy. And then how you weapon eyes those infectious diseases, what the Japanese did prior to

were too in that space, how they use them in world war, two against the Chinese. What happened that data afterward after the war? Toby Programme from the end of world war, two after the collapse. What happened to that information and then our programmes today from the end of world war, two up to then continuing through today. So I was I was keen to all that at a time and so made me little can have dinners. We're talking to doctors, people it had worked in that's base, do in my research, but from obviously not a doctor, but from what I studied. The difference here is that the incubation period so for us they saw in the military go receives in our fighting insurgents and what they look like, what they look like the people that aren't insurgents where's. That car look like that's porn up to this. This check point. It looks like the one that didn't have a baby idee in it, or is that one looking a little low on the suspension so they're not in a uniform they're, not driving a military type vehicle so same with this, it's that second insurgent. This adapted NAM did to those other diseases and how we fought them in its adapted by

innovation period by that nine days. So awfully you get the flu here down. You know you didn't go into work. If his job work somewhere like row go home, you look like you. Court will get out here. In fact, everybody you don't know that with growing nineteen, so you got there for this nine days, whatever it is Andrew infecting people during a timeframe. So it's like that insurgent that hides a month amongst the pious is the same type of thing like gave adapted Sars was different. Flu is different. All these other ones have indifferent and that's the adaptation of this one is that you go out and you in fact other people without knowing it so that the difference between it and the flu. So what? If that's a hardening wrap your head around? We just look at numbers, but it, but there is a difference in that: flew sustainable, you're, sick, You know it's! It's really in a lot of ways. It's a perfect way to spread a virus because there's, a video game that my wife place she used to play. Doesn't play anymore now. This has gone down, but it was a virus

virus to really you send a virus throughout the world and doesnt the way. If you make your virus too strong a video game, you play your ipod or your phone. If you make the virus, two strong. It kills people too quickly and then it doesn't spread. So the way you get a virus everywhere is you have one that sits in your system for little burdens and so in the beginning, and slowly spreads its way across the world and that's essential with this isn't a, but this is this went so weird man, I mean the news It actually had a story, s really saying that they think it came from a lab. So now that that fear, free of whether or not it came from a laboratory. I think I tweeted it. I think I tweeted sea could find it. My twitter page rose reading Esther motorcade Newsweek not really sensationalist EC publication Red when their public. Something like that. You got a problem, To this end, there's a lot of speculation means not so high.

Hard to imagine that you are talking about something that literally was a few blocks from the epicenter. We'll on where they had that level for lab right so the deal is with Thou videogame. Your wife was play, and that day the goal I gave it sounds like what you in fact the world to tell the world. But if that's not a day, if you have, if you have a go, and you want your country to survive, then you don't want it to become a global pandemic to hit the city, the country, whatever geographic area you wanna hit with a weapon, Ized Infectious disease, you wanted to burn out. In that city, so instead of going over and dropping bombs on it like a like world war, two firebombing, dress, dinner or whatever else or Tokyo and is destroying those cities. Well, you know what, after the war, you can go in with an infectious disease and now it's burnt out and no damage now, but you don't want to spread throughout the whole world and come back to your own country. So when I look back looked at it, and I heard about will on. I heard that there was a mile save money, weapons lab, maybe, but maybe it's a weapons lab, but

a lab doing research in infectious diseases a couple miles from these wet markets, where they're saying that this thing well broke out. There are cases in the former Soviet Union of them doing these, this research into infectious diseases and weapon using it and then having it get out because a protocols were followed or wherever Ellison kills a few, people and they hush hush it, because it's in eighteen sixty something nineteen, seventy something. So there is precedent and it wouldn't be beyond the beyond the pale, the thing that someone was doing some sort of research and doesn't have to be well innovation. It can just be they're just studying this fatuous disease, not even weapon, rising it and someone tracks it somehow in that lab and then brings it outside, That's the controversial theory. So here's the thing the controversial experiments and will harm lab suspected of starting the Krona virus pandemic and says the case against a war on lab, and so says why do harm lab remains a suspect in the Krona virus investigation. I mean

really likely that we never really will now but Most certainly were working on viruses similar to this one right there. The end of this article says there's another one cobb at our eighteen, thirteen, which is very very similar to the Sars cover to one that we are experiencing now. Oh terrific this year. Ninety six percent of the same genetic material, the out while Saddam most similar, Sars Kova, two of any known virus the two year. Ninety six percent of genetic material that four percent gap, but still be a formidable gap for animal passage. Research, says Ralph Barrack via I'll just universe, North Carolina, probably in bed with the Russians who collaborated with like when you found it, Harvard Guy get arrested for because he was take money from Russia or excuse me taking money from China because he was doing something with them. I mean it's real spooky,

truly spoke, as the World Health Organisation is essentially in bed with with China and they're, not giving us a hundred percent clear, detailed information, everything its filtered down through the chinese propaganda system, osier very dangerous, and they also at were exceedingly We have been on the number train, we contrast China, but it seems like they were a little more prepared for this than we were with a virus testing, yes goes and all that, if we do recent, there's a lab where you doing research similar to this close by there are there's a history of other countries. Maybe even China, to of doing research into infection sees is not following protocols that we would here in the United States are not always as safe as they are shocker here in the night, Here's what we're doing the same type of research, then it gets and then they just happen to have a lot of these. Get ready to go for testing the will two thousand eighteen, they are actually cited for violating safety protocols at that same lab in two thousand and ten. So they were there there,

Concerns about that area long before, but what's really fucked up is World Health Organization posted in January that, according to China, there is no evidence of person to person transmission of this disease. This is days after a new for sure it was being trance but it from person to person. So China has been deceptive about this one. Very beginning, and they think that if there were honest about it and then they stopped everybody from leaving it could have covered, they could have covered this.

The point where it would have been. Ninety five percent less saw the ninety five percent less people. We ve got to figure out just lock down on to deal with it there as much as you can see why there s the world. Now we look back at seems like but you're dealing with China, the only Russia you're dealing with some of the air and citizens, the worst it seems like the worst. It does seem that way: it's what serving storm it seems like, but the way they handle their own citizens when their citizens are tested positive. This is horrible video, this family being dragged out, but these people and has met, suits and trying to resist these people are dragging them away, has tested positive area and once again that govern taking a little more control control and we're has given it up and we give up so much and even before this, obviously we gave up so much information about ourselves voluntarily age. We would say that fifty six seventy days we never would have given up in our like up click, accept the royal make I to picture. However,

as you know, this is fine and communicative. My friends were very accustomed us clicking on those user agreements and no one can figure them out to those dozed. Those concerned me, and obviously we ve given up a lot of our information terms of data where we go the map information that gonna shit, but this tracking thing really freaks me too fuck out. It really does because they're gonna find another reason why they should be able to track you once once they do it because of the virus, and then it'll just be next year will be the flu defined reasons. Keep fuckin tracking you wicked safe, do you like it? If you could do anything wrong. Would you worried about with listen? consumers. Someone says that yeah yeah you're, a fool, tat, antennas, gotta go up and he I don't understand you don't understand what this could mean looked. Mayor of LOS Angeles, is paying people to rat people out for not finding social, just not following so soon social distancing rules, there was an article in the second. These needs

everything normally snickers gets out get real war. I sought a video, it's horrible July, my known to have his Tarrytown phrase is just like. So this through novel? I went to Russia to do some research and had always where to go there and that for this third, once the first one you go before after August zone of written about Russia, your books in the process of writing it s getting closer to the end. But I finished up at its caution was a Jew. This January. I've only read Savage Son is that at any rate I listen to people get mad. You say you, The other area boasted that I know I do now inside day. I guess it's hard to read but so savage sunshine, one of listen to it. Did you try about Russia in the other books in the second one eye data plays in the geopolitics eyes. The first one is really very our need to be very basic, very vis. Oh, very primal, right of a game. I knew that in New York salmon is used her all these they'd publishing houses. They see thousands of these things a year so at something

to make this stand out. A lot of that was the personal experience moroccan Afghanistan morphed into the novel to make it feel real, personal and then visceral. What about swing and with that novel of revenge without constraint, so I'd I'd done that search essentially just as part of my life by when your rack going to all those sorts of things for second one. I knew it had to be different, so I put in a lot more geopolitics, of what's going on with Russia Power struggles of the south to make it a little different sign when people say no he's just a one track pony just picked up this revenge they now drops in Africa drops in China drops in Europe, What had to be different to continue that heroes journey in this story of violent redemption, but I went to Mozambique as bar. To do that, research can I knew this before I even added publishing deal I knew that eight John Gresham, he wrote a time to kill first and he couldn't give that book away, and then he wrote that

and that's it want to takes off at the moon, the Tom cruise than later than they go back and they publish a time to kill Matthew Mokanna makes the movie, but if he'd stopped at a time to kill, he probably will be pressing law somewhere in Memphis So I knew I was always right to show off. I went in and big to do that. Research get that boots on the ground. Experience like I had an Iraq hadn't Afghanistan already for the first novel by living in the sand ago, knowing allay knowing New York and really being able to incorporate what I done already but had been Mozambique had to go there so put boots on the ground and everybody over there. You tell me the story of their country want to talk about the politics, one to talk about Chinese influence in the region with mining operations, both legal and illegal, and meet voting because long to feed all the people in those minds how those affecting the environment, so they did that couldn't stop them from dying. It was great. And then for this third one. I thought it would be the same in Russia, so I wanted to they can jacket peninsula and I do a hunt. Little fish, over there the same time, it is all part of the research

and I even for one month a year you can get to him Shaka Peninsula from Alaska. So you don't have to go from here. To Germany or London, Linda some for all of August. So you one flight today Russia once a week, only an artist only in August why you have to go all the way around the world. There is a anchorage then up on a couple hour, flight and next thing. You know your Russia, its awesome, but I thought I was gonna be the same without your lan I'll get to this remote back country plays. We have these guides and all that and I'll be able to really in it the military installation, because the people guiding us I used to have some connection of the government so as this hunting concession out there in the basque country- and I thought they don't want to talk to me- and they I realize very quickly that for most of russian history, if someone is asking you pointed questions that kind of you to ask. If the writing a political thriller, you were not long for this world. It was after five, squad gulags off to Siberia whatever, so they were very Is it an argument, and I left

My computer is behind that suits. I customs I knew there was gonna, get everything sucked out of my following a pure. I know who who sent things me an email or tax over the last twenty plus years that I sergeant left all behind brought a penny to paper because asking these questions, and I know that they can use here's my book. You know there are enormous, Arthur I'm just asking that, but now they were very stand office and very suspicious of why I was asking him in these kind of questions, but it all worked out some great stuff and get to weave that into the third one week. Like show up in the kind of ugly Americain. Shall I better than you you don't wear in all your need this, but I would I tell you that I dont know, because usually I've follow not you well, they are usually follow. The customs above the local people, gonna wanna, like show openly counter ugly Americain, show I better than you you don't you know this, but I well what we so I kind of adopt what the uncles do and they don't need their interest. I wonder why there are no. This is one of the things that they

don't worry monetize people made it bears a made either the best bear this year. Black there s Brian call gave me some incredible. It was I bears Thus it was so good b. I tell them people now shut the fuck up like MIKE or got ass. What's your favorite food, Chios bear you have friends like what amazing, like it's, probably not really her favorite, probably trying to shock or friends. I know that back the die. Thereby gave me is made, is canned so was sitting ever while he, I really can't thing. So. How did he make it? You know so do you boil it and it's Haven't you wait in the car from the bowl rack up in Springfield. Organ gave me some can dear me, and it was really good yeah, but it's really bottled. It's like bottled dear interesting, had I've got a definite bottle dear before both bottled black bear in it Maybe it was eating blueberries or whatever, but it was. Reddit sat our counter for six months. Does my wife was like

the fourth area, so that we are disguised, came over it. I guess from too large a challenge, and yet we can build a house with a wild game, dinner overtones and came over, so we we opened up and he was everyone's favorite Irene we had more than what would the ingredients behind besides just put a couple, some spices in their of some But I don't know they didn't look like it. It is open it up and look we orbiting you opened up and how was it can like glass like moderate bottle like you were the jam? Yes same as the dear that are vital in those vacuum. Sealed bottles was awesome hundred on their gets a moral if he has any more. If he's listening to come down and get some of that if I was led yet yet my wife, like that she's like one, this assumes you open it up and it hit the air it changed. I get changed. It didn't look like this murky thing that was in the dark. Look beautiful, raising we love. It was great ovaries. Favorite is awesome, yeah, that's a weird thing like bear actually taste good people are so wrapped up in bears because of Teddy Bears. They they have.

Distorted perception. What a bear is and people that have problem eating cows have get mad, you, if you eat a bare, do you know how much nicer cow is than a fucking their cows or eat their young? I don't think they naturally eat their children, though they kill other people's children and then the mud while other bears children rather and then the month about when I was in Alberta, friend, John and Jan, the people run the camp out there. The rivets, their son, saw a male bear, kill a cub and then the female I'll bear chased the male bear away and then finished eating her cub estimated he was eating her cubs, o sheaf. She ate her own cub right after she was defending it he's, becomes meet once they're dead, they're, all cannibals he's a lot of that stuff is interesting. How people have also bears with well

humans me they do up when you scan on. They do look a little like humans sword that someone looks like a fuckin bear on their dead lucky. You ve done something off with your body at a big boy, get yourself, that's Steve or now calls it bears. He says there charismatic megaphone than that is something animals that we have in our hair that you're not supposed to eat, and we also think we connect. Bears to what you would call trophy hunting, meaning like someone who hans lions, something isn't real hunts things you don't eat, although mountain line apparently- is very good. Its relations. I've heard this and I've got friends and like their favorite food out, don't events. It was Anna, hurt him here. It's time I was the best thing he's ever every night and act like I did my first one this year and amazing you have outlined by didn't eat it. Has the guide didn't Roy polite was like a no go same thing. The guide? Wouldn't let you eat? It is very clear to me that that was not something that was done

there I should. Where was, I should have pushed it in you tat I should have wasted. I could have wished to suppose tat. I feel bad about it. Now is how to get a tag for them too. So it's not like it's easy to get. It was married lions day who is while I was amazing, but the back back to that that killed the barracks. It was incredible, especially with someone who doesn't speak English writer over there with this guy who's, that's brilliant part of the military and then work for the government and then, as now, in Slovenia people just listening? You do an air carrier, Graziano sell it. Really interesting but yeah. I guess I got my bare and then by the craziest part with my friend who got his and I he wounded at first by accident course, and it happens like we know, and it goes off into this thick thick brush in the state,

I went and did another hunt in Alaska this year. They won't let you go and after aborted bear into the thick stuff, like maybe some well, but my from what I've have gleaned they're gonna go in and do a kind of like going after a wounded, lubber or something, and in Africa like the guides, that's where the guy's gonna go, earn it go and do that so this thing's wounded, and they hand me this rusty side by side shot gun, that's at the bottom of his boat that were in his little tiny little boat that were in on this and out of hands to me and out hand me, too shells and look at it. This way. Sang and I'm having two shells in my hand like an ok I'm like now, because yet he had so a couple more. My cannot get me some more, I trained up for Africa. Do at the double rifling went after doubly ranch in Texas to really get the double rifle plundered do occur buffalo haunt the same way. Someone would have done it a hundred years ago, so no optic side by side double rifle. So it's rifle, but it looks like a shocking

big big. So there's two rounds and interesting answer to shots, but you have to other ones re to go into practice it after w practice may have charging animals that are common in after you and you're. Just like you, wouldn't literary, changing mags. But this time yours, two more in there and getting it back up. So why trade hard for that? And so when the enemy, this old rusty shock on- and I think someone Said- oh- that was made in a factory not like I'll- get feel better about this cause. I've I've seen a lot of acres and I've seen a lot of them rusty and working. Some ok up trust, my about trust, my life to this thing and its rusty from a bottom of the boat, and this guy doesn't speak English, so bam, puerile Mamma, to judge for Sir, I'm just amateurishness buckshot or something I can see you as low. As I see it, it's a slug it feels like, the double rifle I trained up so hard with the GOAT Africa, which was Maisie experienced in a written now and better, but an off. We go

in to the brush. So it's like, they wouldn't let you do this in member states like you're goin end to this thing and they were wounded, huge bear brown bear and off. He gonna shoot me the guy to my friend and I this thing It all quiet- I haven't, felt this dial the incense Amadeo Sex like ours on and then ban. This thing rears up like fifteen large away. Just like you and I just span and boom shouted like. I want a person to how how busy and have been over ten feet. Austria picture after this ten foot tall bear cheese is more than half the size of the head, and I forget how, when measured of effort is huge, it was United picture out of this play. I shall I go in human that it goes. It goes runnin off like twenty yards or something like that and is more thick stuff, and we hear it death Bello, but before we hear the deathbed the guide in broken English was like ominous: go around the other side, scare him towards you and I'm like. Ok,

so I do I go around the other side. I get down a cycle of charges out, it's probably gonna beyond all legs and making charging like this. I knelt down and they discover data to put one it if it's coming charging at me traffic ok face mouth right here. You know my nurse bear Hunt. So anyway it we heard the debt bello after that was used huge. It was created that is such a different kind of hunting when you're hunting, something that absolutely could tear you apart. Oh yeah, like your made out a tissue paper area. Yet no doubt Algeria, but yeah, it's crazy, but what it website prize me was How will it wasn't like wild West over there? He said? Oh, can I can we do not get another ere it when it was very like now. You had your tag. Just let you wouldn't states, it was all the science based waited this many out for the population like it just like the states which legitimize my big business and people coming over there. I didn't want to root deplete the resource rally,

yeah, they're, smart, but for some reason it surprised me. I thought oh, it's Russia. Could I've been to Russia before Benda Moscow, Benda Ukraine dive into the catacombs for earlier in life, and I won't those into into the second novel, but I just figured it would be a wild west. He can. I remembered it overnight in Ukraine in Moscow back in the early nineties and it, but it wasn't. It was all very much you have. Your diagnosis is yours and and when deviate from that this kind of interesting they wouldn't even retain eating it. Yeah behind there's a language barrier there too, and so it's hot especially when your word veil of people that are tough when their living he's huts built into the ground essential of rivalry just south. Just South Siberia is just South Siberia, but This aim seem to have a thing and to their built these into these small hills for insulation, some in their out there. Why and it's it's it's a rough existed

so when they say we're not doing something. They say it in a way with this russian accent, and it really is not really a let's talk about it right now. Think that those people would want meet more than anybody, I mean your things. Meat would be very valuable and a ten foot bear you could feed so many goddamn people, maybe that's why they tools, we couldn't get our keeping it. That's all that's possible that asshole our definite as I was at least that's possible ten, a fish out their moose huge moose out their northern pike, great debt that well they have they might, but we were at after dive, Arden and Rainbow Trout, I'll drop out loud and big ones out there. So is it was pretty great using it, and I got a we ve got all that stuff in so I got so. We ve been in some of the people that I met over there no more girls they have over there have once get in the front instead of the two so that their goal

through this tiger is tundra, so tightly ass. It raised their only watching one gettin, my route or something like that instead of the two. So I can a lotta good stuff by going over there- and I wouldn't have known what to ask, I want to see the vehicles that they used over there. I was very happy to see land cruisers, so that was pretty. But they are all much other studies and russian some crazy russian staff and I get incorporate to incorporate those vehicles into the novel as well. So you really never know you're gonna get until you get on the ground. Talk to people build those relationships and then things ended up, went awakened, making their way into nor is have you ever seen that Werner Herzog documentary happy people life on the tiger, no that you need to see its wish. I've seen it before book is crazy. It's really good! It's in its this amazing documentary about these people that live in the I got in Russia and its those them from being the summer time, all the way through into being in the winter time and it just just hunters and gathers and they're so happy. It's really. We

it's really we're like. There's, no mental illness, there's no suicide, Everyone's just struggling, I mean they're just that there's they're, making their own skis they're, making their own home they're making their I mean they have these cabins set up for trapping and they use snowmobiles than they have. Dogs have a very tight relationship with their dogs and they get fish and they get meat and then that is, that was what the they bring bread with them and the breadth all frozen. Obviously, so they have these loaves of bread, they bring the store their cabins. They have to bear proof everything, but it ceased their life. Is so compatible with being a human being is like there's something about are human reward systems that have evolved over thousands and thousands of years that being a hunter. Other or just completely locks and with all the things they keep. You content unhappy, there's the document in a very interesting. The relationships that are dogs, dogs over there were amazed every,

their dogs are everything they have a huge, very, very tight relationship with their dogs. That's incredibly of the values that we have in the camp. The protected the camp from the banks like that was the bare protection was these dogs are specifically trained up. The chase bears off public heat to go back and look by absolute radical dogs. They were amazing. It's a really amazing documentary, absolutely one. However, there is another really interesting documentaries that was not a documentary. It's a vice guy to travel where its biggest called Haim. I think his name's high mo hi Mose Artic adventure and it's a guy who got a job in Alaska. Unlike the night, in seven days, and he owns the has at least have a cabin out there in this very remote part of the Arctic. In once he's dead like this like. No one else can actually government yeah. I don't think anybody else. It's gonna be allowed, but it's it's another amazing doc, mentoring he's a guys are really is,

Can guy who's really articular very interesting guy, very intelligent guy who loves living like this and raises family out there and is his. Why fears American Eskimo, and is this fuck an amazing way of life. I don't want to live, live like tat of a like cities like all that stuff, but there's something incorrect they compelling about being completely reliant on nature and your own, ingenuity and hard work and he was talking about it in this documentary, where the device people this back when vices you know just start now to this vice guide to travellers are one other earlier senior series that they were doing on on you too. It's it's really cool when you're seeing this guy as is Rapporteur reporter, who has no experience like this at all and interacting with this guy and him explaining his life and why he lives like this why so important, and that you have made us why people find their way

back to nature in some way shape or form Guiana, cabin somewhere. If you go into the mountains like going to the sky like going, our city ass, the dream or Paypal, but it still needs to be. Let me drive and demographic nice to go to a restaurant. Now it is not the one they air, Jack, you're, lookin, smart now, exactly Hanukkah might not even know what's going on, but you, don't even eat, you write the effort that people are. They also. It was not a bit of a wake up call for people as far as how soft we ve gone generally as a people and also from the end of world war. Two for those guys they came back and get back to work, to complain and built this country into what it is today by Since then, we ve got a little soft. Like oh wait, a second it. Maybe it would have been better. Had I had a week of food- or maybe I would have had you know it- Maybe twenty two got to have a gun in the house, and we do it in that safe and haven't shouted in years or was gave to my dad gave it to me. Maybe I should learn had it maybe use it in case the police aren't they are for me when I began to, or do we have,

extinguishers in the house. Do we know how to use them? Are those things expired, kids know how to use them. All those little knives, questions once again gets back to bandwidth. So if you're worried about that stuff, you know you're not worried about how do you adapt your business? Had you adapt having your family at home and moving forward here? When, maybe you don't have a job anymore? You need to get creative, so you're worried instead about oh, how many beans or in the cap, but instead, if you had it through innovative experiences different, what their comparable with as far as their level of preparedness in ITALY, but being paranoid issues allowing you to focus elsewhere if there is a natural after hearing California like earthquake, NEO other places, you know we're sooner wherever it, whatever it is hurricanes whatever it allows. You then, to focus where you need to be focused.

People be like three days of food and maybe a little water, and you need something to filter waterway in case I turn on the tap and there's nothing comes out brown, so everybody's levels can we get from, but I think this is a wake up call and not super confident that people going forward wool Take those lessons and act on them, because that's what's important most will slide into complacency. Unfortunately, I think that here there you're right, there's money in my life was like now see why we have all this stuff and no said Craig these staff, but it's just that I like being prepared a boy is now not just from being a seal. It's from before that has always been drawn to the outdoors in wanting to be preparing the ladder to live out, their survive, or whatever else I've just been, has always been a part of me. So as for natural for us to

have a couple guns? Have some ammo have some water has some food because of this it in what I did book was comin out, and I had to figure out how to adapt very quickly to the changing environment and launch it in to me was very important to do it in an appropriate way to have as much good as I could, at the same time helping independent bookstores who have no for traffic that sort of thing, but very quickly. I d take a breath, look around and adapt and I did not worry about food or water. Filtration systems are an hour, but, as you are aware, the area that I guess, but all my effort into figuring out how to adapt to the changing additions. Get a lot of questions from people it. How do I get a gun? Yes, lotta? California, we have,

the lines around the block in front a gun stores were hilarious, they didn't realize you can get a walking, and I ve heard about this loophole. Where how can I witnessed that loophole that they can you talk about how to get one of these? No, I can't even lonely one, because if I alone, you will hear you work walk more than but twenty yards away. I would ever now it's an illegal transfer, a firearm. Piazza! Sorry am, I have three hundred of them, but guess he's not getting any view because you didn't prepare and worthy of Phelan, while others also so many people that were anti gun. That now want a gun. I mean it is hilarious, its it's really interesting to see like this is where what people are present. Did and when societies want Rhine grade in we up until this pandemic, at least we have a wonderful society minutes. I too have a mean there are, problems with every society. This is certainly not perfect and certainly not a crime and certainly certainly there's things wrong. But, however, it is absolutely the best time in history to be a human being to be alive, especially in this country, its many people

Why would you need again? No one needs gun the first moments bullshit take all the guns now that pandemic. Kids. Those same people are like. Oh now I get it. There's not enough com, in the world to deal with riots. If, if, if there's mass riots in the street and people breakin into people's houses and the world becomes lawless because the economy is absolutely collapsed and people that were maybe like a little bit sketchy just going to become a full on criminal, that is absolutely inside the realm of possibility in the way we need to recognise that and the people that were anti gun there is, I mean a great percentage of em now or saying to me like I either I want on or I get it or how do I get a gun or how do I train like I see those videos, you training? How do you train with a gun? Where do you go? How do you know how to just start and all these

actions? What, where do you hunt like that they would? The Google searches on hunting must be through the roof? I think so. I would think so because if you're worried about food, like my friend, went to the grocery store right after the big thing here and everything was shut down is at. All. I could find was one package of ground beef First of all, let me not worried about you, you're, not gonna. We hear Malaga three Martians reading. How hook you up I'll give you I've been given a lot of my friends me. I love you and it is, alas, semi a picture food. Alas policy, once you, it looks like you cook it I mean this is the first time is the first time that Ben somewhere else, and you ve been able to its not arrived and you see in the korean shopkeepers, defending their stores here. Katrina, where you're here in a few things about the police, not maybe office, getting firearms there, but not by not being able to protect your honor, but enough. Live in Montana, your maybe you're in upstate, New York or whatever you're. Seeing that the news and then you go back to making your dinner and haven't whatever it's not real. Now this when, I think, was real for more power for everybody

there's a whole countries locked on even Montana, which has Various low number of deaths in a very low number of infections still has state wide social distancing rules, the mediator crew, Those guys are all doing their podcast from their homes, remotely yes different dealers who has driven home for me, I think I did it drove home. The owner ability- and I think this is a good dr run- because this is an don't wanna disrespect, anybody who died or anybody got sick, but this is not the worst pandemic, the the world's ever experienced it's, not it's! It's it's! nearly as bad as like the nineteen eighteen spanish flu, which killed fifty milk, in people worldwide? So this is us, a smaller number still back smaller number, but there's a wake up, call that this kind of thing is a real possibility and then take this and then couple it with ok, a terrorist attack or take this and couple it with a natural disaster.

Of two things going on. I have a pandemic and they have a huge risk here in California, Vienna fires, you have assumed army whatever it is, so you have. Things or civil unrest somewhere. So let me three things now choose one of the issues. Any those or maybe someone's watch and this is a time because, where week you get it with a cyber attack from We are now the sun here at home and your credit card don't work This data has been gather over the last ten fifteen years on people credit card information in their building in China. All these huge fields of that collect data, huge horn rises. Actually lacked data tonight, you're at home, and you were from air of novel foods, delivers or whatever not working programme. Dr Next one. This was not working. Now. Are you so there's so it? and get worse and it allows hand but being prepared it a little bit, don't get crazy, but it be nice to prepare to defend

families. For me, as a husband father, I feel it's my responsibility, the citizen, that's my responsibility that that's one of my jobs is to be able to prepare my family for their ran and defend my family. If need be so my my family might be, maybe a little bit differ. By die if I spend a thunder ranch up in Oregon and training on tablet pistols in a hours up there, our daughters been honeys, and she sat anyhow she's very comfortable firearms but it is natural and advocacy now for us as people to want to protect that the greatest gift of life not just hours but those that we love well so, as I think it seemed like, it was not enough the real world of problems that most people can have to deal with before this, and now that I've seen like all the the actual Rupture of our civilization is very thin. The veil, keeps you from bad things happening is very small, and it's just we lived in a nice little. All the locks zone where nothing was happening where

There wasn't any pandemics. There wasn't any state like beside it's not eleven? There's no attacks on american soil or than than that one day, so you look at the it states over this long period of time you like, while this is like the most in need using time ever to be alive and everything's going so great. This is just how it's going to be now forever and then something like this and people rise like oh, and especially, I feel terrible for the people that work hard, every day and then their jobs taken away from them. That's no fault. Around they're, not lazy, did they not drug addicts, dynamic they didn't gamble it all away. One day they work up in the world changed, and now they dont have food money. It's tough, talk in hard and its. Also one of the wealth of its other personally Donwell being prepared. It's the one that often gets over let's when you're talking about preparedness. Is that financial, so yeah so nobody is going to be going to be different, owes it to one month.

Where the bills is it too, is it three out of the experts say, are whenever everyone's gonna be different by its important, I think going forward for people realize if they weren't prepared financially for this they go and for the need to start putting but awaiting you talk to somebody about how they basque and yet because things aren't always gonna, be rose in the face of mercy and life just like professing as a country now like yeah you're and face it in life as well. It doesn't have to be a pandemic. You could just lose your job yeah or something could happen to a family member. Whatever it may be, doesn't the pandemic or a terrorist attack, or anything these global calamities? It can just be using your job, sick or whatever it may be so having that foundation of financial security? Hopefully that's why those notes people are taking from this going forward, so they can be better prepared. Not just find these calamities. We're talking about budgets for normal everyday life could yet gonna hit. You think it knocked down and you can have to get up and keep moving forward and those can help you with. That is not wasting bandwidth on figuring out where that no hugger peanut next bill bill

who prepared at a time near a little bit. I hope what people also recognise that if you're in a dead end job and you been just playing it safe and then it got take away from you, because this pandemic, and even though you play it safe and you did as this terrible job that sucks, like you, realize National Chase. My dream now had me It is a chance. I mean like a guy like you who takes will, but I wanted to back this because we never really whenever we finished how the book up, not act about how you wrote it, I'm its yeah we dig intended, but that the Your story is one of the great american success stories, and that is the story. The story is the guy has a dream of the woman has a dream, whoever works hard and then one day figure out a way to make it happen at it and that's what she did. That's it again and I didn't have the whole thing about just not worried about it, not happening that meet can always not happened. It's good to have contingency plans for sure my head. I didn't have any specific contingency plans, but out of I knew I was gonna, be ok,

are you going? I sent it off? I wanted you to I won't get a lot of things, I want to ask you: hey, created Reese, created these characters, but when you sent it off like what does it feel like when you use then a year and what eight months or somethin a year for months, first and then another four months to edit and annual A guy and he sent it off. What is it what's that feeling like is awesome is automatic. Corneto California went the Abuja store on on the main street, there called Orange Avenue and when we get next day air racking everyday insurance, whatever you could possibly do, and other copies yet so so it's all perfect and when I found out from taking those notes in the car or not, How does a matter so much better back, then? I want to make it as his editor, who has been spoons editor, who did Mitt RAP Series and sadly passed away a few years ago, but Heroical term limits in the late nineteenth data really define the modern political thriller saw you, the font, that she liked. I knew the spacing

she light, and also I met a space and reduce Europe is an aerial two and a half later. My old is in my old notes. Now it is a matter so much better again, I want to make it as per I wanted to do everything I possibly could increase my chances of success or making her not just look at it in have anything of it. Who is a psychological like it in the wrong? Finally, do specifically were juice up the beginning chapter, the first chapter just to make it very riveting. Yes, rather the upper absolutely yet you can. I can I knew when I lived and when I like reading- and I knew I like sniper staff- and I had that background- and I can we ve all that in there- and you know I didn't you say- is war in his shoes. You now they're Solomon boots. Why? But that's what I use down? Ranger, rising sick, a gear because, while flame- but John hard started, zika and also it would make him blend in two that environment, so it's not dressed in military staff in the big. So I need to do all these sources sort of things are very natural to do, and I and get him to a place where the reader wants to turn the page

How do I make the reader want to turn to the next chapter and want to keep him up at night? How do I make them? One I'd go through the entire night to finish this thing. Did you spend the most time on the first chapter, because nobody goes already very pretty much the same on every chapter I would say, when you go back to add its is really where you spend time dialing it in, and cash astronomer there were many edits on the first one from New York. I thought there was gonna, be a ton, but because maybe it was because I had that yellow, from listening to. Your figures. Show is due in Brussels that That said, revenge I tied every single paragraph chap whenever had to directly or more importantly, indirectly tie back to that theme to keep the reader going aiming at the second had to directly or indirectly tie back to redemption, somehow even if we very subtle wasn't came our savage son, the dark side, a man, so it's

explores the hunter versus hunted dynamic through the dark side of man. So really flying out a is James Reese. The protagonists is here, the killer is here: is your soldier a what? What what is easier Hunter or the all three of these things? So exploring that, because a lot of us are drawn to these, that these jobs were defending our country, defending the guy to right and left homer down, range. So why are we doing that? Is it because of his country? What we ve been doing this for the beginning of time have been defending the tribe they been taken of the same type of weapons to provide meals. For that I tried it in passing down lessons on how to hunt and how to defeat other tribes in battle to ensure the sick, the success and the continuation of their bloodline, so why we still doing that, today's it all forgotten country or there's something more and less allows rule exploring with with the other one, but but other one by die. Important thing is to get to the end of that chapter and have the person want to turn the page?

look forward and also to establish a relationship with the character like I knew creating James Bruce. I wouldn't be a likeable guy. I D when people people who want to spend time with someone like that's that's. Why would you do that? So I wanted people to invest in this character to lie came to want to sit down, have a beer with them, but also he need to have a background. The training, the experience to build a flip that switch when everything is taken away and essentially become the terrorist, become the insurgent that have been fighting for the last at that point. Sixteen years at war use those tactic, techniques and procedures that works so well against us from the enemy side in Iraq and Afghanistan and use those here on the home front. So it's a little more than just a story of revenge that first one. It's really also, someone who comes home and brings the wars moroccan Afghanistan, home to people who have been sending young men and women to their deaths for close to twenty years now, so it says you can read it at a couple. Different levels depend on how much you want,

But how did you want to go into it now when you sent it to her? How long the tape for their respond almost immediately real circle so I sent it off. I'm super excited. I totally remember because after I put it after I mailed it, I'm industry walking back to the land cruiser and this crazy lady walks out into the street from around the corner and this nightgown and am I what's going on and she said, there's a there's a dead right in my house. Can you help me? Am I what and who is right there like fifty feet away, and I couldn't say no So I remember vividly that I sent this off. Senator had my old my lifetime dream, I get it in the mail, Emily Bachelors Ivan issues turn off. It goes I've taken that breath and take a couple step towards the car and this law. He runs around the corner like enough in this respect Dick look in her eye, and I, like you I'll help you, and so it went into this house, and it was like this order how's that everyone is, I had to go to the top level, this old, like victorian House and take this dead rat and take it.

Did you think you're gonna die in their imagine. If you send out it was almost eight I've been sucked, it was how it ends in its work in this area, but who edges remember that distinctly because it was so odd bite so set it off, and you know what you know. I think I'll call you back. Are they not working? I read one word of industry or that I've been opening at all who knows, but about two. We assume that two weeks on immediately, I mean like two weeks, require clear. Pretty quick. I got a call for a mile from at the door and taxes on earth. I just finches heartening Lord, as are the road, and I say you been struck by lightning and also what and he said he up she. She went here with us. This is why I mailed it in June.

In November of twenty sixteen, so I got into the military in July on June, twenty sixteen mailed it November, and then I heard back at early December. Why ass crazy and I ashy he said she loves it and she must abolish it later. I found out that she called him because he's their political thriller, guy and she's like hey, I got checkers manuscript and I love it, but coming here are your guy. Would you want me to he's like I want you to publish Jack and that was so cool circle, so he could above the Gabon and if you maybe they re out o now he saw his cell awesome and what did you tell them? We first talk like I said he didn't. He said. Don't call me throughout this next year when you're right, but we did say, is that the only difference between a published author and an unpublished author is that the published author, never and so for me buds and having that bell right, there within sight of you during Hell week. We put it in the in the trailer each of these

was it value ever, whereas you don't have to run anywhere. You just like, take a few steps and ring this thing, you're dead so I really resonate with me because of that and I emphasise loved ass, like our attack- and I can do this and I wish I could anyway. I had that background and had not found nation. I knew our s gonna do and there is doubt socks so anyway told me that that next couple weeks later, I urge mid december- I fled in New York and waste down an issue or to make sure that I wasn't a crazy person. So we get in what I personally have you read your books without flock is coming up with this shit. Your point in that first wine, while data there's a first when there's like in this third one, if you ve, got to the torture seen yet will there's something similar, read the whole book an angle or went through the homeless over the authorities through the torture say so there's that one in that it is second one there's another torture scene and then, in this other, the first one there's one that I often the shining path to relieve movement in South America and what they used to do is an

data from somewhere to buy bade absentia eviscerate he while you're alive and make you walk around a tree. So your intestines are now wrapped around this tree and then the jungle each you alive, yeah, it's great stars worried that might be a little off putting to somebody in New York and publishing but later I've, I found out that that's everyone's favorites after especially people, you wouldn't expect like librarian like it lead people actually love it, but I get to New York. And a little economic. Ok, I run American in summary suit, and I have never had do before I heard of people, you hang in the bathroom you let the steam get to it to get the wrinkles out of the suit. So I do that and I'm getting ready, and then I got up at the suit on its soaking wet December, its New York, it's freezing. I don't have like a coat like other people in New York have or scarves or wherever they were, and I With this thing I walk like soaking wet and have to walk to this copy place and by atomic there like a sheet of ice.

And I get their mixture of their and our early, and I gave the guy guy forty bucks or something to try to wait for a table to be ready. There was a little more private than the other day in the coffee shop and so on and we go. I sit down waiting, afterward favour. Coffee is at a time bomb out. She shows up sit down with great conversation for about forty five minutes to an hour, and she said I want this thing but you know you need an agent and as I what I hate it when we negotiate Praecipe old thing, didn't say that and there and what I was learning rather the war of art and resistance and all that stuff document agents in there, and How do I get one of those issues like our new guy I'll, introduce you to four and then Diptych one and as a whole, I SL interview for and how do you know who the pic so was crazy, so there was to shew males and females. All fantastic, all great reputations, all amazing The guys I was like it was very army.

It wasn t there have been great you're, not gonna, pick Mccormick IRAN choice years. Always in that sense, I was very lucky about said, look at it, they're, probably at the right ones, but between the two female are both so amazing, but there are one eighty out from each other. They ve been around since Tom Clancy Days, small, but you gauge and see represents John Gresham. You go in there. You have all these John Gresham posters all over the place. The whole team comes out, sit down and talk to you. We amazing she was so awesome. And I and the other one, the younger, hadn't really and down Tom Fancier Gresham type person, yet bigger agency that all I see em out here in Hollywood as well and it was such a tough decisions like a final row ceremony, ram broken up with someone in twenty years, but I felt like I was breaking up with someone. Mercosur. Vested in both of these agents. I just lay there were Boso fantastic, but I felt

I note in one eye at the time when I made the decision and has like, and it felt like the final rose ceremony and then pick the one with icy am because I thought you over this table a novel and for work. To go with a movie or series, or something like that to be that part of the mosaic than to continue building this foundation of readers. I think that's probably the right choice and It was so you have this plan to turn this into some sort of a series. From the time you release the very first book the out from before that, and so was crazy. Is that as I am, writing this? No, they tell you not to think of someone playing your characters, your writing, but as a child he's, that's almost impossible not to do so. As I'm writing, the crazy part is like it. Usually, you think a black mark Wahlberg. You think somebody that had done these sorts of things can it before, but I thought it Chris Pratt He had just done. You are done as parks and wreck and He died. I had a small role in zero dark. Thirty replace a seal has a couple lines in there and for some reason, like that's the guy.

Real, and I know connection to him and know what it would have been the obvious choice back then this is twenty, so I start riding in December of twenty fourteen. I think her early, two thousand and fifteen somewhere there so It wasn't a giant movie, star work that other hinder any that that's enough yet, and I thought you know what this is. A likeable guy Eddie seems like an awesome dude, I'm getting a good feeling from him, and I thought you, got an eight hour Magnum It offers a naval intelligence officer, and then they found out about seals, the writers they turn them into a seal, a couple seasons into it and, like everybody, loved Magnum in the eighties, when

my dear the guys like me, nothing like about Magnum, and he also does the first, essentially what you would call a murderer on national television with the other person not having a firearm or a weapon at the end of writing a season season three. But the guy that item as pure w in Vietnam comes to Hawaii as little conspiracy thing involved and at the end he thinks he's walking away again. Magnum asked him if he seen the sun rise that morning does that morning, when his friend his friend s killers. Sunrise and the guy turns around- is like yes, why Megan friends around and boom in they stop right there with this, like fireball coming out of the end of his nineteen eleven and they freezer right? There was the first time on television in that prime time, our where someone had killed somebody else. The hero had killed. Someone he wasn't armed. I forgot about the varying remembering it now there was very controversial there in its amidst. I thought. That's why I need. I need somebody's a likeable guy.

Who's going to invest in this, and I heard he was like military and that sort of thing and- and I could sprats the guy and that's all- it's all about. I gave to reconnect about it so awesome and I get a who knew he was gonna turn into drastic park and hidden passengers engineering serious yet, but I also thought about seven stuff. Listen up my whole life and I thought about in the eighties look at Tom: Hanks didn't It is always imposing bodies he's in dragnet he's in the burbage oversees the volcano, and then he does something called Philadelphia in the early nineties and he takes at risk and since then is being able to write. His own ticket is one of the greatest actors of his generation and I thought who's that guy in this generation that needs to stretch a little bit. That needs to do something different. Like that's, that's Chris Patten. He can do this, and so I thought of and then even crazier before the first book.

Out. I met thunder ranch, training them shoot and step up their an organ, and I get this call from Gaza. Renewing the ceilings and he's a Hebrew. Remember me, and you know you know, jeered and I hear he's out there in Utah with us and he said ebro- remember me Macao course, I'm gonna document five years or something and we catch up a little bit and his eye chaos, and I thank you for a couple of leaving us you'll teams of your member by you. Ve had your office, you Sammy down, he talked about transition, you introduce me some people, the private sector and I've never forgotten it has allowed a quarter to do that, for you is, I mean, he's awesome, dude solo, stud great operator and want to get a team so much open as best I can, but he really from them and he said he heard your book. I cigars coming out in a couple months here. These Gallagher

The things which are early copies of a novel I can send won. T love descended, said yeah, that's great, but I liked given to a friend of mine and I see no problem whose that he said Chris Pratt like no way why so he gives its crest Chris reads it and the next thing you know, he's option that before it even comes out, are you a guy who believes in fate diesel even does so when I was in Almaty and two thousand five, two thousand six, that's where I got to think about this little because every time you left the wire anything Tibet and eighty and you could it either. Bent that time on the way to target and coming back from target worried about is that that dead, donkey on this as at second a blow up, and you end to kill me your kill that hit that humbly in front of me he's a trash right, there's a covering something else is that it is our wire there. You can spend every

single mission, especially onto an from target, even on target, worried about that or could focus on the mission books on the job get there do the job get back, and at that time I was like in ill. I think have to resign myself to fate here in a lot of these things are the wise my mind is gonna be focused. Not where needs to be, but on is that ninety is that ninety? right back a blown up today, fascist ashes. How was your everywhere do everything we possibly can to mitigate that? But you know it could happen and I'm not gonna, spend an inordinate amount of bandwidth. Worried about other than trying to mitigate as best we possibly can. But that's not gonna, be the focus of my of everything that I'm thinking about. It can't be that need to be focused on this mission, Anita folks, contingencies, others

Finally, to figure out what assets are available to come in here for cure offer whatever. But here we have all read: how do we had we maneuver here all those things like that's what I need working with two hour later, quick reaction force together, set up a different places in case you get hit, so they can come on annually and like Brad, Laser Abrams, sometimes different vehicles- Avalon. Fire power than you do. Is you sneak through the streets so arrogant, resign myself to fate and there's a book called the bridge at salary array and ears like Africa, many people as they five or six people that are on this bridge and it collapses, and the story is how each one of them got to beyond that bread. Why were those six people? The ones that were on that bridge at that time and fate, so so I guess, it happened without a bit too much sense. Then next Anson in Iraq and is having to our feeling like I had resigned myself to it dies Pratt Things ear is crazy. It's

here is a mean wonderfully ear, no eerie. Maybe the worse word has pretty amazing. I feel very fortunate yeah and yet it's one of those things The car maybe made that happen, like maybe a kind of put out. There will, as your writing, thinking about him. Maybe I don't know. I say that I say it was shut up. Hippy proclivities like we're getting crystal up your ass too, but that everyone I hadn't. If I hadn't, if I was like me, I was whatever an average clo whenever, but if I hadn't taken the time to sit down with Sheridan like maybe Chris, doesn't even This exist right and other crazy part of this. I thought of Aunt Unfrequent, directing it real directing it Why? Why? Why him? Because I love should really these training day you to training day at the Oscar for for training day loved, magnificent seven. I need work with press on on magnificent. Seven actually did know someone who knew him by dies.

I did have that connection through someone, someone else, but I love Shooter, which is based on the book. In fact, by Stephen Honor, with Marbre love that movie, because I could I love the book so much. They made it more modern for two days time at its Vietnam. Sniper is Bobby Swagger, who originally as by tie. I just thought you, the guy, he's the gas directive. Thing and other both doing it was crazy. That is crazy. That's so weird man that you had those too people in your head. Like that's, what makes me think, I don't I'm not I believe that its possible the manifest something, but I think, most people to talk about that stuff. Full of shit yeah! That's where it's a problem like most people to talk that's tough trying to sell you something that will you know you can make your life have any, is needed, dream board and read other things down, there's a lot of save his worship, because you gotta do the work right. That's it, but part of me thinks that if you do do the work and you do have that focus net intensity. I feel like them

be some sort of frequency that you can tap in war. You make things more likely to happen or possibly you can make things happen, but the thing is again you we hear those stories from the people that are successful account. People curse brought my head of bringing said Chris. I get the fuck away from me. You now It's totally crazy. How about how that stuff? Can I come? Sir, comes together, you couldn't picked a brutal yearning, for he is such a good guy he's such a great guy is almost weird weirdly, nice yeah now so nice just different for around here- maybe I don't know but he's very different in terms of like Hollywood actors, there's a few like him. Like you know, it's like people have to say that actors of full share their grows in their self centered Narcissus in its true alive. It really, but it's not you all. The time on Chris is a great example of a guy who's like these are very religious guy, very pro military, very he's a real

positive guy, very, very, very friendly guy he's, not your typical actor. There is great and also a huge movie star. So it's weird it's like he's. Not that you know, guy does coke and goes to parties and he's different, different animal there. They do exist. Male and female. There there actresses that are great people they just they just really genuinely enjoy acting, but for the most part the but to get into it, our people that needed just portion amount of attention and for the most part the people need disproportionate amount. Attention are disproportionately annoy, you know at usually they like to get rid of the author right away. When you often something is going to give it to that. Guy is he's gonna, be on, sat needing to be like that Now I vision you're ruining my book or whether they like it already, of course, want to be involved. So I got to help on the air and the pilot script that this thing, that's all it is so good now is this a net ex things that we're doing it's still classified have had their doing some some announcement at some point, but

streaming service. That's right! Ok! I know it is Africa S against it Ten farts years, maybe some like up eight to ten part single pervades, adds her. If they try to jam you don't work movie, while you have to any more that's great evil. Like looks genius, exceptionally, half move. Another crazy fate thing is because, when You are doing that like when you writing than two thousand sixteen that destroy we think wasn't what it is today right and even when we did the deal it was like. A movie was kind like that. That was only twenty twenty eighteen hour. We did the deal and its I well jewel series or movies or both it could be lost in the contract and now and then they decided to do the series earlier on before covered given was on the radar banal looks like tat

this move will now like Series, have a giant advantage over movies. Gonna movies are getting released on yeah, he's really interesting thing today, one of the sea, their was saying that they're not gonna have universal films anymore, because universal released trolls on direct to demand with people with Ebay and Amazon stuff like that. So these cinemas are now going to war like publicly going to war with the studios. Because a saying hey, you need to release your fuckin movies in our theatres. We had a business together and the theatres though the movie producer production companies, like you, might not have a business and six months tough, because who the fuck is gonna, go to the movies. Now, when they're like ok, it's all good were open up May, first or whatever it is urging gap who's gonna rush right back with her kids, it's not gonna, be what it used to being. It's gonna take ailerons going on, and yet again they were because why been sand forever? I would love if you know

I've big TV, Rome, I would love. If I could just watch movies on tv, I don't want to go to the movies. Some guys talk and was girlfriend the middle, the moving ruin and everything how people check and their phones. I see the light from their family astern we're getting oxygen I'll. Send you like a like right. You am. I looking at that age lack lays a backpack railways that media center, the old town with my kids just on edge. The entire times I write about this lower the exits. You know that sort of thing important doing movie theater exits like there's no go at every night. You can go to the wall and on the wall, the jobs it like, I sort of stuff, but yet it's gonna stay stay home enjoyed it on a like a backward on so if we can make a good move now by going back that turn back the fate thing, so it also like what, if I had not manner the operator, wherever that I, what were the guy had a different impression of me that sat next to Brad the war at the fundraiser here he's not gonna recommend meta to Brad, or if I was, I had a bad impression of mere did that allows about operator at a bad reputation or whatever else IP economic mentioned money.

To read, or so all those little things that's gonna came together or what, if I didn't redrawing up when I didn't read all these guys, like David Morale, procreate, Rambo in eighteen, seventy two and are brotherhood of the rose early on which also solidified me to go into this the themes already on the path. But One sentence in that book, brother of the rose they talked about seals and I've had such a good time said a good experience. Reading that novel that one day had right in the same manner as he does in Asia is a dear friend now, he's apps is incredible. Guy, all those little things just kind of half a mean they happened, but I did them because I was passionate about. There was passionate about reading passionate about writing about serving my country, passionate about being the best operator. I could possibly be sought, always focused on those things, and then these other things kind of helped. It help propel this think forward. Seventh, it seems like the formula for success and everything really really does like being passion about something, focusing all your attention in all your energy and really true.

To do your best something at sea. Like the formula to the work at my school book is called. Do the work you have to do that before anything else can happen his wish that something was gonna happen at it. You know you have to sit down and do the work. Rather it's right comedy whether it's right not yet started Jim, whatever you're gonna. Do you have to sit down and do the work and people don't they for whatever reason quantify in their head. All those little things you don't feel like doing when you just make yourself. Do they all add up the aft and it really makes something happened that doesn't happen before it's not gonna happen. Otherwise, no one can do for you now know the kind here others talking all the time about with their publisher doesn't do for them so I hear that about comics to my agent doesnt, doing it and beyond viable. They can't do shit them for me am I will have no background, I'm not coming from politics, I'm not coming from sports and not coming from anything. We're have any sort of a following. That's going to push me forward in this type of around. What are they are only anything I owe them something.

I need a broom myself to them. Improve A good investment is most books, don't make back their initial investment. So if you have the most, books the utmost real there's? A few colleague movies. I call the movie the avenger is and all ass. Our stuff makes the money back for the studios while they are the ones that no one sees that mean when Oscars but aren't making back their money. So same thing, embellishing there's a few at the top like the Stephen Kings and Brad Thor's invents plans and all that they make it back. For all the books, it don't make back, their investment sounds like any improve myself. Disarmament used her. How am I going to do that? While I owe them they gave me this shot, and so I'm not gonna leave any rock on turn. I went to look at things from other industries like black rifle coffee. How did they build a coffee company, Ike edge? Guy ties, you know the military and the agency. How do these guys get together, make some Youtube videos and we are now to have. Is amazing comic while you re a lotta huge gambling is amazing product at its base, but ass they did, they did

advertising that it's a marketing they did their own marketing and advertising on social media platforms and they connected with other people that had similar interests or that they thought might be able to then grow the brand and also help those other brands along the way, but also this its authentic look, Evan, really only Evan Havre. The ceo black rifle colleague, has always been a coffee, yeah. I guess all ive used to fucking rose coffee, the back of his home. They would get points amazing, his grey we take you through a sense that passions talks about coffee. It's like me talking about writing Italians, hence that passion and it's incredible learn so much about avi from him now during anymore, because he's not like before. I wasn't, but now that I know him and know those guys and have seen the process and now we're photocopies.

Does he give you a hard time because Reese Legs, honey and in a little bit cream and his coffee, not as much as I thought he would go in really makes coffee? It's really good without anything. In it when he does, it is doing, and they do that thing with a glass deal in the hold its measures it out yeah they way, nor think its awesome. For me, I'm gettin up in the morning. It's chaos, the kids, you ask and sanity and, as we just hit the coffee major lack rival copies in there, and I talked in some honey it off its islands and cream soda you you're honey. I didn't know how to make my period anybody to give you shit about putting honey in your coffee. Yes, so so much just like protagonists of these stories. They they like a coffee black well in real life, lot of seals and federal borders, guys like their coffee, black, also highlighted offer at, but I always liked you know that lot, aching that come Mikey automatic. So I was, I always do that and then I found about honey in coffee and honey anti later, but it was very natural for me to write out into the character because he has a background. Sam

to me as a former navies he'll sniper the becomes an officer unease at this point in his time uniform we're gonna, get out and take care of his family, which is where I was when I started writing, so our we were laid applauding want to be a superhero could be someone that wasn't was good at something's like chicken indoors, like that. Take a snapshot. Some things I'm ok at, but then also ray what side of the house some of the things that we want. Typically due in the ceiling, there is not good at those sorts of things, and maybe he drives a sixty language circus, I loved anchors, and there is also another whole subculture of people that level anchor users and bring into the fold also. So it's very natural for me to talk about those vehicles and then to develop characters by talking about a defender, one ten land cruiser gagging each other's hard time, whatever else or nine Wilmore verse, forty five or whatever it is used. Those things of character. Development also is very natural for Meda, had honey and creamed protagonist coffee, because that's what I drink at home,

Really that's gonna, be the interesting one of one of the many many interesting things about writing a character. Is you can incorporate your own little corks and rescue It is, as you know, that areas of rescue other different stuff You'Re- you mean in the gear thing too. Like your very meticulous in very specific about the type of gear and and how he prepares every you have a very very odd for me not to do that in some people, don't like it in their plenty of books, where someone takes the safety off on their glock before there's you someone or something like that or they click it off on revolver, whatever lectures, pointy books out there, that do that, and I now I will make an estate got agreed. I'm sure I'll make a mistake at some point for the people that really gonna. When you see a mistake like that, doesn't take you out a little bit. It's like things like watching a movie where they really kind of Jackson up and unlike because we're thing to do? Is watch of seal movie with a seal or the horse video policeman

the copper, whenever that I'll go, tell you about all the mistakes, so you can enjoy the film, so I tried it just enjoy them for what they are, but it does take you out he's like what else did they get? Cannot write at the guys like rain and say the off on this law, so so for me, it's very natural to incorporate that year and its also brain Ashraf me to talk about it, because we so into it for so long that I know a lot of people in these industries like us, areas. Watch your doubts at the CIA is friends with ever neighbour. As I do Jack I suspect, do legit he's like oh yeah, he's legit, so so, like I stopped, gets woven in theirs. Won't you so natural for me to do, and also see somebody I can tell a lot about them by what they're carrying how they're carrying it mean, what kind of shelter there using what issues there wearing what can a knife in their pocket like I can tell, What about who tells a story, a meeting on reading the without them saying one word, and so my characters do that as well, and I use those tools to describe other characters that out of the army.

That aren't seal, that our somebody else y know how, as F, guys, travel or thou they'd tab Aden good how their packs, whenever and wherever it is, or I know someone it doesn't. We know what they're doing this character isn't really know what they're doing so. Yea can be arranged eleven. This brand new that he's not carrying, got a lot, don't have. On the chamber whenever it is like. I can tell a lot about someone just by looking at their set up with a quick glance. So it's very nice. Drove me, do that in stories as well and gives me a lot of work with How many does anyone? How many seals or novelists is a common not Tom, and there are seals, obviously, who go out and writer Nonfiction richer Marcinko who created Marcinko. I read those our get as the first books have ever read on military in and out ice early nineties. When I came out, I was so excited because I've read everything you pop, We could conceals up until that point because I wanted to be, yes, and I was seven years old and you are Can it be in the military even before they invokes come out. Those came out. The ninety saw, as did they really the up early nineties,

virtual Hanover Vulgar read him. Yeah red world were a fellow your written before them, but I guess I make sense. Nine hundred along and I'm gonna went time blends together. So when I found out hey, there's an auto biography coming out about the guide, it started, this command damn neck on the EAST coast is characterised unit. I was so excited redoubt book. Wasn't there an issue to which people will kind of upset that he was Tony stores? I think so, but as a kid reading that Leonardo anytime, you rightly that backstory dislike all this is amazing. Here have had an incredible life to be able to write a book and the first meeting after Delta. For short, a book called the delta force and I think, needs needy six, which really goes into the iranian hostage crisis and does what happened to desert one nineteen eighty- and that was a very format of time for me, because I knew I was going to military. And at the time Walter Cronkite on TV were watching it during dinner, his counting down the days that U S, personnel have been. Taken hostage in IRAN and I'm seeing those click down everything our quick up every single night and-

during I see the pictures, black and white photos of U S military and built in state Department, I do know that at the time I see Ghana suit guy and a military uniform blindfolded in black and white photos. On the cover of the newspaper, I'm wondering why are the? Why is United States standing by letting this happen even on six years old at the time? Why is this happening while we go in there and get those guys and then desert? One happens in course. That's that's on the mind, is still shade. Everything we do as a special oriented this in special operations as a big black eye for the country's special operations in general, aim to people with happens by so many people, so bout six months after the hostages were taken ran, so they were taken. I think, in November nineteen seventy nine and

six months there eventually held for four hundred and forty four days, but about five six months into that we made an attempt to rescue them, so the ring held at the embassy still an adjacent building. I think and weave the first use that most people know of of what's called delta force, so our premier coward, terrorist unit at his modeled after the british essay S and the bridge s ass- has been in service for a long time. So we had guys that went through their programme in the sixties even and they took those lessons created hours because late sixties mid seventies, lot hijackings, we have the Munich Olympic. We have all these caddies these terrorist events and we don't have a good way to counter them, and so Delta forces created and their first test was operation Eagle Clock to rescue the hostages in IRAN. So agenda did just an anniversary of it. Just happened the other day so April, nineteen eighty, we give it a shot and it didn't work out. So what

and was we have Brean pilots flying these seas, dying, helicopters off and Ngos, the USS Nimitz Ethic, so their flying off an aircraft carrier? their meeting assaulters from Delta Force, who are flying in on sea. One thirty's from an island called Madeira in the leg of a woman where a place where we would then launch into Afghanistan years later. If still enough, I spend a little time time there and they are going to meet up in the desert and outside its IRAN. Iran feeling miles outside the city. So they see whether his land easy when there is land that have fuel helicopters, land from the arab error, There are no refuel those yellows and the planes are gone back to Madeira and the helicopters to get closer to Tehran. So any closer there can land they're gonna get camouflage

during the day, and then some guys who have been on the ground and Turann is the best part of the store that no one really talks about. Without guys on the ground. In IRAN we in Essex Airforce guided spoke Farsi. We have a special operations. Legend Dick Meadows is also on the Sandy arrayed in Vietnam, and we have two special forces guys at a Germany and then to see a assets once called Bob and one one's name Mohammed, and we had to get vehicles out there to thy sight or the delta forced guys are and then they're gonna with salt, go in there can predict the embassy there and get the hostages and an helicopters to take back off land in a soccer stadium. Next door and they're gonna extract from their expelled from their. So What happened was the planes, land helicopters, I have something that mechanical problems go get lost in the sandstorm they needed six hundred and thirty the mission they launched with eight less than six make it to that link a point in the deserts. They have to scratch

no go criteria, so it takes a decision essentially away from the ground force commander, because I had a time. He knows that if we don't have it, we are for helicopters. We can't do this mission so, instead of being underground, say. Ok, we have for how many guys you have. Can we do it with this? Those decisions made had a time in the planning process, so they helicopters land not enough to scrap the mission there abort of happened is they would have gone back and it would have reconstitute and gone after the hostages a few days later, but one of the helicopters in refueling collides one of you see one thirties huge explosion, eight years. Rich men die, and so they don't go take they don't go back to the hostages. Again, a few days later ran who's, the hostages, different locations all over? I ran to make it a lot more difficult if we had gone after them again, but the next day, president, our makes an announcement that we try to Qatar sieges. Didn't work had this disaster in the desert and it was a big one.

I for his his presidency and for a special operations in general, but the important part we took those lessons and weak. We applied them going forward so and how we train altogether- instead of having all these pilots and assaulters and all these people that have never really train together up until that point will now we do now have a special operations command. We all train gather, so pilots are trained you're doing all this stuff together. So a nine eleven hit all those years later were much more prepared because of what happened desert one. So that's how we honour those guys that died that so we honour that mission is by taking those lessons and apply them going forward. It's what you, interestingly enough, to do in life, also when you have to learn lessons and apply them boy for its all about how you apply them going forward with that's a huge advantage for you, as an author to have all that information to have that legitimate background like to be writing about these things like we're talking about, eyes were writing about taking safety's off clocks people. That really don't know what writing about when they do it's like mean you can be

creative and pretend you're a ballerina without of ever ballet danced what I don't think it's good be the same in theirs. There's an authenticity to the way you write and too the one book DR readily savage sunward, you did that they just it does frequency that you tap into that is a frequency of a person has experienced the stuff in real, have you not imagining in others a lot of there's a lot of stuff works, the right about things where their imagining in others what movie called warrior? It's an Mme moving, oh yeah. They fight two days in a row and when they They fought today's around my get much like when you talk your fight two days in a row. Have you ever seen some won the day after a fight they fuckin elephant mantra bodies amass everything, swollen

This is nonsense, but someone who doesn't know is like this in the story: they're gonna lose the first night, but the next night he's gonna go eggs in exactly they do things that take you out like you. If it's it's world they don't really know about and the writing about this world. Where is your writing about a world that you were so deeply bet it in for all those years there. When writing about it. It just it's really compelling it's very interesting. Thank you. At eight and incorporate some real world stuffing. There, too, I got a shot that I didn't taken: a Java Iraq and I fictional eyes at by fat a memory from Felicia, and I join them more for around a lot bit by the passion. Is there the feelings and emotions behind? It? Are their hats, woven into the first story and then some and so is very therapeutic. I get to take and I was very lucky downright so you can do all the right things in combat like if you were there whiteboard something out here and we talk about tactics and all the rest of it. You can make those exact same right, decisions, downrange and things can still go south and people can die

the other as opposite. Surely you can make all the wrong decisions of corner wrong decisions and thinks and work out just fine let us, then I life like life, so you could so rather you made mistakes or not point the finger and how hard time dealing with them later, for whatever reason why that was locker, whatever else, obviously very well at night, because of the things that those involved in downrange, but I still got to tap into them and put them into the story now there's going back to what you said about seals, writing books, interesting enough. In the first book, there's an interrogation seen interrogation and interview being nada, not a torture seen by sitting down with Elsie, I ass, though the Naval Criminal Investigation Service, and so some bad things. My crew? Wasn't all our wonderful, like the downrange, tough, very lucky, very fortunate to be in a couple right places at the right time to these measures thanks, but when we get back a good buddy mine Margo and he writes about called no easy day and ass, the one about the moderate and that one who was like a tipping point,

because in our community, at the time there been active valor that movie with I active duty, seals, playing, characters, an actual movie. There are other books out there So it was our discussion happening like here. We too much in the limelight here we're supposed to be based, Professionals had gone back in time. I read all these Vietnam books growth open and every autobiography. I could about people and the military grant his memoirs whatever. So there's a precedent, not just in this county but worldwide of people getting out talking about their experiences and that's part of the first person account. The historians will use later to visit frowned upon at all. So it it got all. It was starting to get even more more frowned upon writer that point. That was a tipping point. So in that book came out that's whenever one said are. Not have one senior level leaders were like. Ok start all stop and they really well because of that work they went Now the investigations that happened they went in and essentially

when they had a connection with him. They pulled in and investigated as a way to put pressure on him to get what they wanted. Oh, so I was one of those garden one in four. Since ninety nine- or something like that, so I ve been dear friends since that time, and so we have. Emails going back all these years, so I got pulled in to this interrogation and they pulled out single personal email single sentences totally out of context to try to get me for something that would put pressure on him and They did that not just with me, but with almost any one that had some sort of a connection with him. They investigated disease already out of the military, so This also that you said totally out of context joking around about something or is just statements above Yang just statements like what did you mean by what you mean by this, and I use that The first now looks I'm sitting there in his interrogation. We get these guys across him, you and essentially and see I ass air from my perspective, are people that

it can make in the FBI the CIA and they weren't tough enough to be history cops. So now there Bustin p on piss tests in the military and that experience with them was after September eleven and think we're on the same team and we're doing they ship orders in the northern Raby engulfed enforce the? U n embargo for oil tankers that are leaving a rack and then going to IRAN, and so our job is to take those ships down before they got to arrange waters and then did you and would take over after that. Is really interesting Tom desire coupling over someone in you walk up. You don't really know what's going on, and so they would come out of out of Iraq. They all these metal. For all the windows it cut off all the latter's on the ship, so you'd have to use a caving ladder to hook and climb up, and then you have to breathe. Can get inside these things and get him back into the gulf before they can. Remaining waters. Otherwise you off so as to cover a crazy deal during what we're doing couple on couple nights off that sort of thing with another platoon and they in Syria shows up, and

plus all these different rooms and they sent so in, sixty some sort of a machine gun timing was has gone missing on one of these ships that you guys were on and, as I got us terrible will, how can I help you, and so we start I can make out. How would you get one office ship if you wanted to steal a machine gun permission How did you get it off and me I'm gonna created like we're on the same theme here? Am I call this? What I do I take it up here by beaten wherever I said yes, I gave her my and then was nearing the end of seeing it in their face and seeing the notes are taken on the greatest second day like trying to get me to I couldn't take it sixty off a ship piece by piece, we're only on. Therefore, like a problem is you're an author and I'm trying to figure out how, through like here, you're being creative Yasser him back. Then I had a bad experience with a better

So what are they sang to you anyway, this they start using you in in with Margo and ordinary NOS eight and accuse me, but I can tell a thing shifted and I'm getting so creative and tell him how I do not mix it with theirs and we'd, get it off. I guess that while Norhala have is like, I am now that these guys are just like anyway, so kind. I figured it out new, the autonomic, oh wow. This is not the time to feel quite right here. I can guess years after a win. That's it there's dry, guess somebody that your job and they can get a seal even better. So after so after Margo and wrote book no easy day same thing- and I use saw these guys across the table and he is his years later, so wasn't like immediately after some guys immediately whenever they put all this together over. Time and followers their ultimate goals, and what do they want? I think they were him to it. They wanted to build against him the criminal case against him, for what for not submitting his book to the Department of Defense for review and is

So they can reject certain things that, alas, of heart, which is why was hypersensitive to even the minor fiction I submitted them when there is idle protocol. So when all those things in your book words has rejected, is that why it's rejected really? So it's because of them he helped so they may be sensitive to it. So no other author affection, ass, the classic these Mary Clarence is that I had no one else submits fiction, but I was so I I did this because my experience with Marco and book in when they try to do us like I just want to make sure- and I said what they taken out- absolutely ridiculous. So the first book I didn't appeal it because sadly took forty five days. Do upshot was pretty good because they say it take thirty and if that's pretty good the got up nine lines or something like that which is fine, but the second one day a month goes by and to then three than for than five than six, and they get almost to the seven month mark when they finally get back,

So at this point we have to push the publication day out of here I'll do the summer, it's like a movie trying to figure out when you do want to offenders movies coming out at the same time, from the same studio. So it s. So these are thought well had a time, so it was not convenient to have to put it all the way to the end of July. So is a pain and every single thing in there that was locked out my attorneys found in publicly available government documents so not just like on Wikipedia Morphine, somebody else. It wrote a book or have no publicly available government websites government arguments that anywhere on earth, so they now done their due diligence to check if that's tough had actually been released already publicly. My lawyers did, you have maybe that they have not yet the report submitted to the average advanced stages have his black panthers have taken things out and they see RCA will send it after the CIA. We can now work for this year, but they sent it.

And enact, starts and C. I a clock looking at. It is ridiculous- and this is not something you how to do it by precedent, no because its fiction- because this fiction by precedent, now like we talk about those laws earlier three felonies a day, laws are written. If you look at them very broadly, so the government can interpret them the way there want to, and I didn't always used to be the case. You back. Fifty years diet idea was you had to write a law that the average guy could understand in one when you looked at one time, read it its evident without law means bound him the language involved, how long they are, how tough they are today cipher even for attorneys to decipher, so it's it's written in a way that they can come after a while. They want for anything which is by design and they used it to go after Margo and used it. You know: that's nonfiction mention that he went to an attorney had experienced in this space, which you would do who's the best

honey for this. Oh they gave it did a book called Kill Bin Laden with someone from Delta force. That guy has experience I'll go to him, so he went to that where he said now. You'll need to submit this so there's lawsuits in all sorts of stuff that are associated with that, but me what they did is years later, his second book, he says it's amazing get ready to get out the military sent me a second book, and say what you think of this, and so I read it and given scale quick and- and I sent him like one, nor does it at awesome Maybe in the first part and the preface we ve talked about your experience over the last couple years with the first book and what the government did you and how you reacted. Just people appropriation that so I wrote that so I'm interrogation room decency? I ask guys and that's one of the things that they pull out and said. So why are you editing classified material that hasn't been approved but, like I don't know,

I gotta get France as it is simply the thing I look at it, so what they wanted was just put pressure on him go after your body. If you don't do this for us, which was to ride to say so what did they want from him? I think they are. And then he was guilty and elsewhere to state of not submit of not submitting it to the November Defence Office of Pre publication and security are of you're not going through their own making. Sample of him so that everybody else getting out would know that they have to do that and I don't think work is there's plenty box out there that nonfiction that have not been through that process, but so they went from him. They were all the money from it, which was the money and, interestingly enough, all the money, all the money and he was all Can it give it all essential part of this is so interesting is because first along he was always gotta, give it all away, and he had no reason to tell me that you're a year before the whenever, however long it was, but or like even setting this up as some criminal mastermind, but he's always

given away with seal foundation and when the book came out in our little bank account, but just what came out of account lawyer, he's after that, so he still had all the money except for the levies and then they who have you for taxes? That with aim is the government so so they wanted that money. Anything money, before I give they made a movie from it all those proceeds. They just wanted to crush him and make an example of him, so other people would submit or make people think about knots I didn't writing anything anyway. How did it all end up so its law suit with attorney that gave about advice, not sure exactly where that is, and then all the money went by to the government? That was in the account and he's paying off the rest of it that went through attorney fees. So you may make anyone know why one penny, all the money went to the government my men plus taxes, so double money, so so all the money goes to the government because he lost the idea because pretty finally enough pressure,

on, where the lawyers do their thing and they figure out a settlement of some sort, and that was the ceremony all the money. While is I can but the same deal know that only through the process through the but after I read So I started to me before is at an end, but yeah, there's nothing but read it and ass They did so that one of the things they used to try to get him to do what they wanted. So now is not the only one. There's up everybody knew him. God had pulled into this thing in, but point being is that had that not happened, then that an interrogation seen in my novel were James Reese sits down after what happens to his team, sits down with those guys across the table. It pertains drifting. Standards it from San, Diego Afghanistan, but that's how I felt about the guy sitting across the table from a zone, feels real pick it up. Just like hey, if you really do interrogation rumour, I'm rest anything cops shows where they have somebody. An interrogation and modest car right without looks like or feels like. No that's what it feels like to be in their having these eyes on. You have them tell you that

no cameras I'll when you know that there are and all all that sort of thing I'm gonna put all that together make the book what it is so without that happening without them trying to go after me to put pressure on him and everyone associated with that. Ah, the first book would not be nearly ass good like that combat stuff yards different. The other stuff, the conspiracy side of the House and Anthea s eyes, and that interrogation in particular in some of the bad guys. That's at once again, you can't kill people in real life, but you know what you can't cannon fiction, and so it made it so better than it would have been otherwise. So now looking back- and I thank him to this day like that first book- that resonate with amateurs, user for some reason and a lot of its- what happened downrange in those feelings and emotions, but a lot of it is because of what happened with with you. As I was getting that's interesting. So now when you create these characters. Do you write a back story do spend time like writing, out, disguise life and then sort of you

pieces of that in the story. Or do you write it a long while you're writing the story, because he was had a background so similar mine? I didn't need to do that, and so I didn't need to create peace or now I am for this fourth one, because now there so many characters and it's hard to keep spelling straight and background straight and all that sort of thing. So now I have these family trees in these characters written out on scrivener, which is I write it. We are you screwed up to allow for stand me so good to organise things than levy hard locally that button it. It's all turns into a poster bore type, we left over, but I didn't use our EL, the third one. Up until that point I was using word and copying and pasting and thence growling and putting it in what I wanted and then you know maybe cut but he was worried. It wasn't. It deletes and I go back now delete it. So it's so nice to use scrivener like that, makes it so much easier to do that. So so now I do. But at the beginning I didn't with One novel I kind of creating you, have a story cited that I wrote six or seven different ideas down like one page executive summaries, as

get ready the one I wanted to start with, with savage sign. That was the one by one. To start with really, but under the characters worked quite at that place where I could explore the dark side of me, I need you to get readers invested in them. Take him on a journey. Much like I learned about Joseph gamble on the heroes journey in here with a thousand faces beckoned nineteen. Eighty eight. I did take em on that sort of a journey and get him to that point where I could explore the dark side. A man thought through these character, so so sad, a start with that first one and was very evident. It's gonna be the terminal list as the ones I took that one page executive, summary carded new outlined. But if I came to a point that outlined where I got stuck in this is the port in part. I didn't say man are going figure this out. I'm not gonna come along on me with this journey ass, not believable eyes when around it, because I'm not on the battlefield,

Solving problems on the page like I am of adapting like, I am on the battlefield, but you know what I can sleep on it and I don't have to solve this problem right now. I can get five months down the line just continue going and eventually amateur figure, this problem out and it's gonna work out so didn't let anything any obstacle. Stop me, as I was writing that outline that outlined and started writing and I figured out those problems. Then I would change the outline and I would adopt it, so I can have a visual representation of what was going on and and eventually about the seventy five percent point than I just discarded. The airline completely ended kept writings scrivener made that a ton easier for the third book because doing it and word was a pain. Dear, is apparently away the you could set up word to behave like scrivener early, yeah I read article on it and I tried to do it knows. I therefore can give up just gonna impudent scrivener. Of how word when I write bits in work

because I can get it on my phone. I can get it on a computer just log into Microsoft. Word, and it just shows me all the files any lapse. Any computer. I use any phone I used. It goes right to it whereas, like what's granary after, like uploaded to drop by and then to get it from drachmas little. If any of you aren't you learn that when I send it to the editor, I did that they were changes its word and that word the rest of the time that a new man describe after I did. That was the finished product gap as finishes at could be anywhere else has changed from the time you wrote your first book to now in terms of voice process and and and how you do it, and what do you think you're going, now than new world. Started so the timeline, obviously compressed now. So I started writing the second one before I even submitted the first one to salmon Schuster cause. I'm gonna write those two, because that John Gresham story him not being able to give a time to kill away saga, always gonna write to you so is already in Mozambique as already doing that that research over there already writing that second one, and if both of em didn't work out

could we evaluate my life choices when always gonna go all in on two, so now the point being for the second one? I wasn't yet on that year timeline because there was no deal haven't even got a salmon Schuster and then once the first one did get a feminist Schuster than they plotted it out, and I still had another over a year before it came out while I'm workin on the other one. So this third one is the first one that I've had better be on that year, long time line for, but I did in my head for so long. So this fourth one now is one where things are really compressed because, especially as a covert nineteen having to adapt at the last second for this book tour and even to think of things that I wouldn't necessarily have thought had to think of otherwise like helping these independent bookstores. I callaway dry business towards them there her so bad right now. How can I help they were before this right? Well, people going

what we have to hurry for awhile and before going back people like that page in their hand, they liked that experience with some wine that they know in their home town. So me also, those kind of bookstores were actually on on the upswing. It was like the bigger ones. There was importers that shut down years ago, Barnes ennoble adapting issue there I heard and so that a little ones like Painter Parliament, in which the main street parks? Eighty there's a bookstore there? dollars their mother was at great love at the chocolate place attached to get some coffee you, whatever its great suffering, how we help them. At the same time, and what I did was equally signed but plates, we can only get through those independent bookstores. So anyway, what's assign book, that's where they have to go so did I have some merchandise on my site, all of that already going one hundred percent two's veteran focus foundations that I had some sort of a touch point with. Does it help friend of mine or whatever else, but out all going centre for disaster philanthropy covered ninety responds fund so that things to talk about on interviews, rather than only seven,

look out. I can talk about how you trying to help as your launching or talk about preparedness talk about what the enemies learning by watching response took over nineteen and how their incorporating that in the future about plans those sorts of things. So I do adapts to virtual book signings. That sort of thing in June is using the technology that wasn't available ten or twenty years ago, certainly thirty, certainly forty years ago, to do today. So I had to spend all that time doing doing that so point being this. Fourth one when I get back from here, it's all in back on book, or which is which regrets. I love writing. That's what I love to do and the other side of the business side of it we ve been talking about. That is interesting to me because I'm learning something new and I love learning new things and I wouldn't be learning about branding of marketing and all the sort of thing if I didn't have a productivity, never a book and it

and I can help other people as they're getting over the military starting other businesses that aren't even writing related at all. They can help them and talk to them about my experience of what I've learned, how I've adapted, because I had to no one can hand this stuff to you. You have to go out there prove yourself get after it. Do the work and be smart about it if a study that landscape, so I studied so media for a year before I even did my first post and I saw people easier. We really want the eyes I studied I studied. I saw what do I liked? What do I not like with appropriate? What's not did you write must have doubted just keep it on they had no kept out of my head. Pretty puts appropriate, but not and walked into that general store, very, very, very clear: what's should treat someone whether they come and yelling and screaming, or they come in asking for directions? Rise, that's some basic stuff that a lot of people don't don't quite get help fortuitous. Is it the your writing about, in fact, these diseases and then this shit goes down mean if, if there's ever a person who got a gift by a tragedy,

it's crazy, because I done all that research in the fall and into the really part of the year, did you gonNa Galveston, the CDC? You know. I talk to doctors that have involved in infectious diseases and with the weapon assailant of infectious diseases, and I read through some books out there, thou dost of online guidelines that we have to be able really careful about and check with other people are really no, rather what they're doing, even though its fiction. So I done all that part of it. It had it. So what really change for me as far as what I'm doing now and what I'm incorporating from this is why what our response has been took over nineteen, because its put obviously our economy into a tailspin. So what's the enemy doing, the army is looking at that and realize look at this in the bull virus has done to the United States with the Soviet Union couldn't do in forty plus years of trying. So how do we incorporate that in future battle plants

Can we have a strategy, even a failure, or are they just a threat of a biotech? What, if there's a failed biotech somewhere? It still gonna effect that economy, especially right now without being so gunshot about all these words so what are they taking from that and what are they learning to apply going forward? So for my fourth novel, I'm taking those lessons about the enemy is low from this, and how they're going over, how I think, they're and apply it going forward and incorporating that into a fictional narrative. So and in that sense I am trying to learn. Always learning. So it is important to learn and apply it going forward and you you're you're, also you're in the middle of writing the story but you're also living a life of a person than actually has to deal with this corona virus pandemic, where the whole world can shut down, like as a judge. As a human being when you deal with as what's frustrating for you about how everything's going down you know, I think it's what we just talked about as far as

well not taking these lessons seriously going forward and making this a stronger country. Because of this, so you get knocked down, you get back ever stronger for it. You ve learned something to talk about an jujitsu qualitative, your window, you learn, and, and so you, what are we gonna learn from the arena, Why that going forward so like the whole thing with the I ran crisis, were hence the hostages action we learn from that would apply those lessons and we are more prepared for nine. Eleven is a special operations force because of it. So for this I worry just like you said when I go back to the old ways after this? They can't wait to secure the slide back into their own was so, we can have stronger citizenry. Maybe it maybe a certain percentage. Take these lessons. I don't know only by so, I think that's probably that its. Its knowing that people expect the government to take care of them, and that's the expectation you not you. It's not

they got. You have to take our yourself or your family, the governments. Can I get a look for adapting the out. How do I get that for twelve on a border that whoever money they handed out? Oh great? Well, you know, what's even better you, being strong self reliant self sufficient and having your kids look. Up and see how your handling this and say well, a moment after either in the kitchen talking about how much they are worried about paying that rancher, that mortgage or therein that kitchen, maybe talking bout it even if they are worried and away like hey. How do we do this better next time? How do we prepare as on the other side of this, and one of the things we can do now is to get better prepared if this happens two months from now a year from now five years from now, and the kids can see that too or they see my down the kitchen talking about him. We are so lucky that we prepare for this were prepared. Financially, we had a little food here, whatever it is, and so the kids will take those those lessons on take. Those two heart has a very impressionable right: how special item fourteen twelve and

fine and there definitely processing this in their catch in things on the news in there talking to friends on their don social media, there texting back and forth wall that sort of thing, so this can either make them hunger citizens going forward or they can see I'm in a moment I relied on government. We came out the other side of this. We have to check and nothing really changed, some, oh what lesson a thing to take going forward right. So it's a very important I'm not just how you deal with this book and how you get through it. Now you move for better for it, but because the lessons that were teaching our kids what do we mean to or not near, doesn't have to be a conscious thing like they're, going to take lessons and his parents, it's up to us to figure out what those lessons are gonna be and we can more fit and make them stronger, more self reliant going forward. I got out our seas are, for it are freezers, full of Elk and moose, and she we pull that outrage

frosted and she's she's, a part of it, because you know she got this Elk in Colorado. Last year, now she's feeding our how old you don T fourteen while she shot a first talk of forty percent of ten years ago. Killing to attack in New Mexico attend yes or somebody. I was a retirement gift, a great guy- and I said you know skim it. You want from me, and my wife or move me what my daughter and I, like you, wanna, go no last year in New Mexico. Public land was crazy Frazier, but as I like to transfer that too, to my wife and my wife and daughter, go do this together, I'm with them also and act in a family experience and use like yeah, absolutely at. Let's do it, and so she was TAT yeah standing or sticks three one shot and the guide was he said, Miss and in writing before the crisis. You seven and she is good and, as my colleague has a tough shot, I it's ok. How do you feel about that shocked?

I feel good, like almost a ten year old, saying that if they don't work, I'll lose face in front of a guide and moms there, and as there and Michael it's ok no, it's ok to miss everybody. Mrs Kessler, learn from it move forward like minded mess as they go up there. There's no blood did know anything we ve we think we're tracking. Yet we walk up issues, Yoshi Mast and we walked back down and adjust, tiny just read it in the ground: there. It was twenty yards away. Why? How amazing show a picture after died feel stupid but he's like this, but it really does when all the way through an extra he's on impact behind well, but it s a problem right. They see the dust kick up behind. The animal may think that its amiss now so the abbot you. So we have that meat

this last year in Colorado. That's amazing about it with the family and she's. Like knows that she provided that for all of us and we were citing wording for her and there are little guy he's. He got his first animal in Africa this last year whoa. I would bats crazy plenty to get your first so crazy, so had been over there doing. Some more research went to South Africa to help our train up an anti poaching unit avenues, locks and used and force of little but experience with both those weapons systems and our do some research in the art and science of man tracking so went to South Africa. Health train of this anti poaching unit was amazing experience and they asked me to come back as a thank you to with my family over the over the summer. So came back with me my family in our little guy guys, first animal they are there for the blood on his cheeks picture him in the back and languages are on. The way back is he's, never had a haircut Nice- is blonde hair blowing the wound, its awesome and then we use every piece of ass was great about over there is they see you use much more than we use over here my stomach linings. Everything gets used in Africa,

just over them to seek it. I think we're using at all here. They see us taking that remain a neck meat and all the rest, but over there they see everything get used, which is a pretty cool thing for them to experience at that at that young, if so the others. That is very amazing thing for them helps to be self reliant to its, and they see the people out there workin on the latter's. They see all everything you have to do in Africa, The union is call someone to fix the plumbing and call someone does electricity's out or wherever you fix it yourself, because you have to I urge you to be a land cruiser frenetic. How that happened. Cash. You know I found out about icon two thousand and six or so. I think it was spent five as we see in overseas, so I saw the high lux his first in Afghanistan, two thousand and three was ever younger, seen these things over there and then you're, seeing what we're doing to whom we have some mechanics over there that are sitting on armor and they're doing things that the Andean and their put in these

your council staff for secure communications and an apple. How this is pretty cool in, and I saw the evolution of the high lux over the next fifteen years and got to see these things purpose built from. Of male factory to an after marketplace. That then, does all that stuff that we were doing in Afghanistan with with screwdrivers and the rest of it. I got to see with those look like and that was very sweet engine see how much abuse they can take and what they're going up and over, and so I think it was. Seeing the high locks and then looking into They will go to come when I get back, as I saw these things over there and they think last forever. It was amazing, it's crazy experiences in them and- and I was like land cruisers- this is very sweet. And I just never was a natural thing for me to like other stuff and more classic stuff and then to also like classic stuff,

looks old, but is really knew and can really get really gas it out. Well tankers will sixty two's just like that Porsche that I've out there were the meadows thicker heavier gaze at you shut those doors like this. It's not it's different states. May there made differently up so I started my research and I think the first thing that pops up when you put in lagging a restoration Ver ankara's arises, is icon. There's a bunch of people doing it now, but giant. It's really mad jump me. He is mad at people do the jobs of restoring Broncos, or should he jobs, restoring Lang. Cruisers have, and I guess he's got every I do mean he's so meticulous and are so what they do is just credible. It's amazing like it's one of those build it and they will come businesses earlier, you know who was gonna buy, three thousand men, our recent ninety

Five lank results, and I know that many cutting edge market is. He owns a fuckin niche yellow and on so many other cars too. I'm so fortunate that here you know down the road and hang out with him and talk to him, when I listen to monitor by gas at listen to him there so and then I drove from allaying gave him had them start working on my after sixty when we were in San Diego just do it age, one car making sure the belts and stuff were good, and you know what I was gonna they can share was to fall apart, but how When did you that stage three, that icon type restoration, has always had my eye on that and then my land cruiser broke down. My I was driving it and oil came out engine crack and your blog that it's her fault, but anyway, sat nor driveway for a couple years, I'm getting out of the military and thus Canada Bomber, seeing that their but get that deal and ass. Well, are things I'd ever sent out the Jonathan get line. I D get le Monde, was behind you, he's like you're just by Josiah, wait for your eighty to get down and give a fuel market at the same time, but they do

picture with with yours and mine ears was just gettin diner their frame offer whatever and then mine was they're, gonna, look and dilapidated in the back just waiting. It Alex eighteen months yet away to LA hey, it's crazy, so thou school such a showed up the other day and of course, I'm not really, but I want to show people were ever, but at Saint, people, are hurting right now. I ve no idea for a long time is not appropriate to go, show it Yet this is not a time to be lost and now its veto. That thing is legit kind of its national free to put him in the books and that's an unusual. I got no one say thank you to Jonathan for doing that, so it is like a bit sick in the books. For my friend John Hardy started sick. I get on the first or second page my first novel is sick a year or so that's woven in there, and I just love to do that sort of thing down. Gimme, a bunch of smiles, the all all the different things, the black rifle coffee say: Dudley, bark outlets tabs very cool. Now, when

when you are in the middle of this book now what it, what does your timeline like? How far you been? How, How long have you been riding on this fourth book, so I outlined had the idea for a while, but I was still finishing up the third one so on the way to Russia. I outlined it because I do not like line it. How do you do that? So this time I used ice, the third one I alighted word, and then I got scrivener set up and I transferred it over and did the writing in words of this one. I did the outline in Scrivener Anna writing. It inscribe, meanwhile, also add a little the post, things, wherever they call on its Gunnar with little description of the chapters on outlined it that way, but I started ruined long hangs out. You know my computer with Manawyddan Russia in Wanna. Take it did wrong information sucked out when I walk through customs, so just legal pad and roll it out, and I just arrows and things, and aspects is and all that just a mass. So I did that back then got home finished up book three and then started writing book,

but I am also doing research, so you have to I'm diving into books, I'm talking to those doctors as I'm talking about other ideas about how to move the plot forward. Different things that can too the protagonist. So this theme of this, Next, one is really the ethics, morality and legality bind targeted assassinations and by a weapons. Peace is really forms a foundation of that, but really what the protagonist struggling with is targeted assassinations and who is he? there is now an assassin he's been a hunter he's been a soldier. He went after these people that he and his family and his troop- and I put them all in the ground and that first book- and now he has appears both its a mixture of a personal and professional, back. That is now that I take on board the stars, the little unfinished business to take care of and needs to use the United States government to track these guys down. Three still needs to be used to get so in

as I am doing, that and interviewing all these people on thinking about how that works and reading a book it some almost with its called rise first and kill by road in Bergmann, and it's really about the state of Israel and has really we think of targeted assassinations, and we don't we associate with our government me. We do. We ve done it before we just did in January, but Israel it's much more closely associated with Israel from its inception up until today and is a fascinating buxom, getting lots of ideas from their I'm ready, David Cocoa? And is called the snakes, makes an dragons dragon and snakes and he's a fascinating guise of counter terrorism buys or for betray us during. The third has become a good friend and some reading doing all that research which helps me move the plot Fgm. Writing it those outlines and working that research into the plot. So at this stage, and brought about half of it it's hard to say, because you never know we're yet another idea was- and it's gonna take too long- and I say it's a little more than half of all,

outlined in our ongoing no right to do, and that first draft is due in MID June. When you, when you right out and outline, but then the middle of your writing? Do you ever have Ladys like Stephen King family doesn't right, outlines he's a big alma pan. Yeah right, Bessie your pants, yeah What are your thoughts on that? I mean like when you read that he doesn't know. He's I mean a giant Steventon phantom he's probably written some of the most amazing har novels ever doubted problem I mean not probably has, and what an amazing story also value the work be invested in research in Croatia hit by a bus. I now have any fuckin idiot, not paying attention every bone. Is bodies broken his historian and on writing about him, starting back up again in his wife setting them up and but you think about someone who writes like that. I mean with this incredible results in his whole, also clarify the way a lotta, cocaine, cigarettes and our colleague is earlier shit like the shining and apparently too

Remember, writing cougar. While they talked about that he was so fucked up. Didn't even remember. Writing it it makes me want to do more. Drugs have yes. I do think about that. When my lateness, three thirty the morning I'm exhausted, I know you're gonna be up. There are six thirty, seven or whatever. Like man, I mean look bright young workers even king, yet while he wrote just the crane you shit, but You're stuffs pretty fuckin crazy too, but you have is crazy in a sense that I think these things really happen. You know, like you. Even like the tortures- and I want to talk to you about that too early to torture, seen like theirs, I've have seen somebody pencil next talk about our beam brew, bout. I shouldn't even said that, but people who talk, torture, saying that torture doesn't work on my how keys

torture. Doesn't work like by what statistic and I've seen people say these two. We shouldn't talk because torture doesn't work and like how are you first of all, how do you know you have you to someone like how do you know Where are you? What are you? A basin is often why you saying it with such authority unresolved yeah authority in resolving conviction that you know based on statistics of something he rather torture doesn't work at sea. To me like: if information and they don't want to give up that information. Yeah want to think of ourselves as being is barbaric type of civilization. That would torture someone to get information on them, but all So if you want to look at it pragmatically, that is how you would get people to talk so to say that torture doesn't work and, in fact people who torch what say anything, and that will that's says who you I hate. Kind of conversation because you're, because it isn't it the NATO military conversation waterways, because it's the same? It's the same kind

mentality, that sort of Mrs all sorts of tactics that are used to protect people that don't They have the luxury of not knowing what needs to be done, or how it is done, the up. So it's very it's very complex and it it's very simple and I Wesley, use this in my writing- and I did and that first book, because the protagonist had to become that terrorist, become that insurgent near so he had to adopt his tactics and he had essentially to a had abandoned everything they have been fighting for for the past sixteen years to go after these people that wrong his family and his troop so farmers that the torture stuff goes. I got to exploring a fictional says so in real life. It's important to talk about these things. If your troops, the tactical leadership level, where were you was my entire career, whether I was just about

and new guy unless a guy, our true commander at the end, it was important, especially once the nine eleven happened, to talk about these things. For we are in a situation where it we called it for it. We call it bit first recalled battlefield interrogation, and then it became a t- q, tactical questioning, more pc to call a tactical questioning rather than battlefield, interrogation but you have to talk about it. I had a time so that your guys would know what was appropriate habit. I'm so they're, not in a situation where an eye.

He has just gone off one of our guises killed and now we have somewhere, we think is responsible for that and there's one or two of us three of us in this room with him or to those guys. Gonna do well their emotional, and maybe we haven't talked about and how time. So? What are they gonna do there in a well who knows but point being before we get there during training. It can't be a brief by like up a pencil neck lawyer that comes in and said all right. This is not right. This is yes operate exactly. It can't be that it has to be incorporated into the training ass to be discussed by people that are trusted, and so that, when something that situation, he knows what one is up. Be it because of the second, the Ruhr effects it may come from it. The moment put up

nice guy, you might want to torture and whatever, but second third or effects of doing that, could be more devastating to this unit. To them, Thea are our strategy, the whole that we're trying to accomplish over there. So we need to talk about it at a time. So, for me, it was important that for the eyes to know that we have to maintain the moral high ground, because there's very few things that separate us from our enemy when you get down to it, you're both killing of killing each other, and there has to be something that makes it different for us and that maintaining the moral high ground we do not deliberately target civilians. That's a big differentiation based as they target civilians on purpose to get the political and that they want. So that is a huge difference shades.

Right there? The torture thing is so interesting because of definitions, so is making someone uncomfortable torture right is Water boarding rapporteur, is Edward Wealth. They didn't my sear classier survival evasion, resistance escape and we all go through this training. Back then, when I went through it, it was based on Vietnam era type experiences that people had had in Vietnam and guides morphed a little bit overtime by its aid, one what people and a lot people in my class, if you did something that thought instructors thought we'd, get you killed in real life or get somebody else killed in real life, so a model prisoner. It did not happen to me, but, to my mind, he got waterborne, as you did, something that structures that would get you can't it's crazy, they put you in this prison camp or their speaking. You different language, a made up language their sites. You look like you're in a prison camp as its built like that. Their smells

cooking weird things, so the smells feel like you're in a different country, so all these print. Sensory inputs are telling you that you're not in the United States anymore and get slapped around. I caught camps, Lapierre cleared and slapped around. So it is no different, but you get waterborne. If you do something wrong, So is that torture? Torturing? U S? Service members is making an uncomfortable for awhile. Tell these definitions are very important waste. Our time we put someone in sitting in a corner and years than their there in that seat, position and they're, not sleeping or keeping up at night. It is that torture We kept bud students up in jail training for almost a week, so is that torture its self imposed on we're all volunteering to do it. This guy's not voluntary, to sit there in the corner, we also snatched him off the battlefield and we think you might have some information and is putting him in an unaccountable. The position? Is that torture? Some would say? Yes, so its crew, easy in that, when it becomes politicized,

and the enemy gets to use it, and I say, and if an enemy, I also talk mean alder social media type networks, all journalists, that are sympathetic to the cause or whatever, as soon as that, can be morphed and called torture and become a distraction and become something that undermines the mission as a whole. Then you have to look at and say: ok what are we getting by what we're doing Guantanamo, what what? What? How verses? What is that hurting and helping the enemies recruiting efforts? And I don't know where that is- I don't with those numbers look like or where that shipping point is, but as a soon as the enemy can get something and use it for their own benefit like having black sites. If we do not, a black sites existed now be wonderful, but everyone knows that black sites, existence economic block sites is to stay a base. Better is typically, by another government agency, with the knowledge of different government,

as was not of United States, is not on. U S oral to let the other government do the things that they can do, that we can't essentially so as to offer the books type site, but of Renault is what it is. It's been on cover than on page your times and everywhere else, as soon as become something that the enemy can then leverage at. What point do? Does does it hurt us more than help us dad those and at what point is at her more than help us take, went to court torture, someone or continue water boarding or to put somebody in these seated positions and to have that be the distraction and early answer, but it's something that needs to be thought of and talked about, and at a technical level the guys have to know that we need to maintain that moral high ground, that's the only thing in a lotta cases that differentiates us from the enemy. We have to hold that ground, that's imperative. So, as leader YA, to talk about it,

and the guys have to know that, once you have somebody much like a police officer who states once they have you coughed and you're on the ground, I get so like your job now becomes to protect that person. That's how it has to be that's what makes us different message. You didn't like criminal. That makes us different from the enemy. If they have us nap addition that can have a head us in their hold our heads up on tv and use it for us, our job is not to protect that person with our life. That's the difference between us and the enemy at the base level. So it's important to talk about that important for the guys to understand it, so that when there in that position and its a guy's first deployment and his friend his wounded or dead, and he thinks this guy's behind it that he doesn't executed when he has his hands caught by. So it's important to talk about important enough to think about, and in its it's tough, it's it's nothing to grapple and those those are the variables right public perception, whether or not that perception or that than the knowledge of things have been done, can be used against our troops?

Sir used against our our country as a whole and in social media and perception, but they the idea that this would. What is good me crazy about it. Is that those hard fast statements The torture doesn't work and I'm like. What's I don't know what you're saying we have rightly works in some situations, maybe not now that meet. Who know what people say that I'm like. I bet I can get you to say tat. I can get you to tell me where you fucking car keys, know exactly what he saying: what right of course, that it works like the idea that a delicate still in No saddens, always really left wing people that all states, physical torture, doesn't work. What they say he's been keeping these doubts as they are getting at bitch. Have you ever seen a labour torture? But what are you talking about? I kept you up. You'd. Tell me everything out of Zeus: keep you up, no, I mean there's a reason. People have been doing it for being a time, some places it didn't work or whatever, but at at that outside that tax level. We're talking about that next stage, where the

old knows about it? Where media knows about it, whether driving at story and their help the enemy? By shining light on these things, it may or may not work doesn't matter worse or not. It's all its detrimental. At this point and wherever that point is then it's time to a ban, Do you find that now that you're a prominent voice in the world of fiction authors and the fact that your your novel have a lot to do with like real places and real things, real issues, you get asked, questions do do get ass to give statements or get have your opinion on things where you have to a measure it and go deserve a benefit to this is our or risk too. I got to be talking about my alienating people or, as is something where you can use your or your knowledge in your position as a platform, to kind of like give your perspective on things from an educated point of view? Yes, it's

it's not for me. It is very at it's hard for me not to tell them like I'm the worst liar on earth and my wife will that it will tell you so it it is. Natural for me to answer honestly but then also to be thoughtful. That's why they're, not a novels. I think also reason. Their resonate with ominous usurers cause it's thoughtful violence. That's how I think of it is not just she's the vanity or whatever it is. Artful violence, which is why those tear whose torture scenes are so intricate and involve too that one with russian monsters d the others have good was silent climate, that to be a lack of a hallmark of the series. Is that their things that people haven't seen before in its not just extra violence, its thoughtful violence so I dont worry about alienating it's it's more. Me being honest, because people can tell like, if you ask me today, like maybe twenty years ago you could have hidden, but you by managers and reputation Matt whatever you call it today,

generally high if you're on social media, like I think eventually, if you have a thousand some post people are gonna gleam. And you're doing it, and it's not obvious that it's just a manager, that's doing it miss a picture of you know you're, not really it's not you. It's obvious. It's not you I'm talking about when it's obvious it you it's hard, I think, to not be authentic, intellect something slip through yeah. I think, eventually, US oyster yeah aiming, and you can see things that are inappropriate, like oh, my god. Why would this person said? Oh, you know why cause them like. That's that's why then, maybe maybe illuminated nicer like people, don't understand the ramifications of posting things that in like yours, hang you got brought in by anti I ass it. One thing could be taken out of contact. We in used against you in a really weird way, alien. I used to think on a wrong same side and it always it's all down the men. Now people are after a win as everywhere she really disturbing relation how it was

that's why that book is so powerful and then and wire. Why? How those guys go down is still violent because it There are few did for me, but enough to gradually gotten do myself. On the pages of a thriller, but for meeting thanks. I do get asked. I am. I do go on different shows now, as military analysed. They ask me things and I answer honestly. I tried to it, isn't a thoughtful way so easy. For being the this wasn't see o of the Roosevelt that I was relieved at last couple weeks because he wrote the letter and framed by senior level officials as he sent out essential like an open letter sounded like they made its Alec. You send it out, there's entire address book and he went about chain of command and so he was fired, didn't go through the ripe, proper channels, smelled we're to me from beginning, because you to be in command of a nuclear powered aircraft carrier by being like just some guy Reich,

You know the military, your invite twenty five years at this point here captain and I would be shocked if he had not got exhausted every other avenue to try to get out what he needed to have done. And he's responsible for fighting that aircraft carrier is also responsible for the men under his command, and he and now we have a good night. Hundred cases on that ship Sakharov to explain to people in the depth of the ship was in fact that the EP They had a couple cases like the three to start with an aircraft operated, art in Thailand or something like that. You know, maybe in January or February, something like that before really things got out of control, so you're an aircraft carrier and the only thing worse than a ship in? Complaints like this with an infectious disease is probably a submarine, but he saw what was happening Annie I'm starting to spread. He saw it as sought it. There was ample the ball, to abide by social justice, distancing guidelines and

you do when you actually having not just social distancing, but once you have it are you isolate somebody impossible to do on a ship So he saw that and then the story is that he wrote a lot wrote a letter and it got picked up by the chronicle in northern California and that it was went out to this huge number peoples, when twenty people it was I've read the letter. It's four pages. It's very very well done, very thoughtful, it gives two courses of action, one if we're at war and how we can, keep fighting the ship and two if we're not warranted Kara these guys and be ready for when workshops. So very clearly delineated in these four pages, very professional on Navy letterhead, and it went out to twenty people and for me I thought you know it This is very strange that that he's attacked like this for senior level leaders making it seem like he sent out was entirely Gmail address book. Now it still: U S: Navy DOT, Miller, whatever is not a secret, its secret communication, but

there's official, maybe emails that aren't secret as well and yeah. Bypass the chain of command. I guess, but that at some point I think, as his responsibility he's a keep that ship fighting, and who knows what the personal relationship was between him and the guy above Emerald, whatever I think there this investigation will show it and now that and then that the Secretary of the Navy Flies from Washington DC to want to give a speech these people on the aircraft carrier, and he says that the the captain there's just been relieved of duty was either Jupiter and competent if he thought that what he wrote that email wasn't gonna get out to the press. Meanwhile, the ironic part is that whole thing is I'll, take that whole speeches taped and there's audio that makes it out to the media. That's a very for me, but then also so then he's fired a couple days later jeez and then the the secular, the armor that security defence now write a letter, an open letter,

That says, essentially the same thing as the captain the aircraft carrier road through days earlier. They got him fired, so it's really industry and I went on some of these. Some these shows gets us down with a couple different people, military backgrounds and because was the only once and that something don't smell right here, and this guy the responsibility to fight that ship to support is his orders are sailors and ass. I was just not write about this now we'll see what happens But but point me in the eye- do get asked about these things and I answer honestly because the it the guys were saying on the show- is that not China commanded involve tunic man, and he should above all, that Chinik Mangrove garlic, the cynical Navy dive Laura, but for such operations in Vienna. Freethinker us we're supposed to do. It must be created for specific. I think read something from the enemy side, think about it from that side of the house and do what we deal, which is what we can trouble a lot of time in special operations because were kind of not military and and we were military by we like to not break the rules. We act

them to a certain extent. Together, we need done- and this is very natural for us by we are seeing now. People aren't like that. Don't think that way, it's kind of interesting but point being I do asked about these things and I dont really measured against their farming and alienate people or not is just Tammy beyond from the open I'll be authentic, and that's what people can trust about me and you can trust about. My writing is that when they read that they know that I just didn't get it from somebody else like it's a part of me somehow, and it's very personal, even though its and that's what you can trust and if my protagonists is using a certain weaponry, certain knife, sir, it's not just that I googled, nay seal knife and so on are someone saying. Then he pulled out his Navy seal dagger into Ike. Now has now it goes, you're know exactly who made it with a relationship of that sort things so that people can trust. Is that they're gonna get my honest assessment RO, the guys in the teams. I owed them. My honest This meant that the people above me in the chain of command, no matter what it did. I owed them by honest assessment, because that's what they could trust they didn't have to work.

About whether I'm just telling them something just because I think that's what they want to hear or I'm looking to get ahead. I never wanted this to be a career in the military, adjusting their to fight and I delete the. But that's where they can trust is my honest That's me so that I I deal with the damage can answer honestly, but it will. We thought, for it's not gonna, be like an end off the cuff craziness that I have to go back and retract or hope it's not gonna be autonomy. Thoughtful because that's what I that's what I owe the guy's also was that thoughtful assessment both up and down the chain. So that's just natural for me to do you're gonna, get to know about this mindset in this. Did the discipline and the authenticity of comes down? Your writing man. I know started with the last one. I start your little bump now that I was like starting with the lowest you'll get invested in the character Electrical asked me. I can start with this. Third one in the publisher wants me to say yes to the third one must now. Let me tell you, could absolutely start with the third, maybe I'll be more invested. If I start with the first, I don't know man, but the third one was fuckin. Graham, I loved it and I'm gonna get into

first do now. Listen you knocked at the park, man. It was an amazing amazing book. I'm excited to read the first tuna people can follow. You is it Jack, car, USA or USA on the Socialist most active islands to ram and twitter is a facebook, but three was too much. So I can. I just say where USA than official Jack are dot. Com is the is the website, and people can go deep dive into weapons or knives or gear on that sort of things. Our imam thanks brother appreciate you think so much wrangling and thank you for what you do for for hunting and for those of us that our self reliant pan forgiven this really open people's eyes to do what they can do to be better citizens in better prepare going forward. So thank you for all. You do my pleasure, my pleasure. Thank you by everybody. Thank you, friends, thanks for tune in to the mother. Fucking show and thank you too, sponsors. Thank you to equip gotta get quip dot com

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