« The Joe Rogan Experience

#1557 - Gad Saad

2020-10-29 | 🔗
Gad Saad is Professor of Marketing at Concordia University, and an expert in the application of evolutionary psychology in marketing and consumer behavior. He's the author of multiple scientific papers and several books, the most recent of which is The Parasitic Mind: How Infectious Ideas are Killing Common Sense.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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My guess today is an amazing person, a frequent guests on this podcast. He is a professor in Evelyn, canary psychology and an author of a new book that just came out. It is called the parasitic mine how infectious ideas are killing common sense. He is brilliant. I love and the death. Please give it for the great and powerful GAD side will gain experience. What A man who I didn't see the godfather it's either man, I miss you man, it's been a long time. I wish we could do it in studio, but I don't think you're allowed to travel from Canada run around I'm not, but I'm so worried about your covered results that just like me, hero, Joe Biden, told me. I need to wear a mask
what do you think of that of marketing? I, like it, the parasitic mine mask excellent Did you go you selling? Those I will we will be eventually, but my publishers, though workin out all the final details, yeah beautiful beauty, I wanna know how are you doing with the governor? How is the truth seeker Jamie doing Jamie's all good to go. He was only really sick for a day cause he's young and virulent. He takes his vitamin d in and vitamin c and all that stuff he caught We don't know where equality believes mighty caught at a bar in on a patio but really recently sick for a day, but You know we had to do the right thing, and so we are locked out. He was locked out for ten days and for positive covert results in a row now five did you get wanted a negative, their negotiating. A good way negative, negative, in terms of him having the disease but positive, and it could work
so have. You have always been negatively. I've always been negative. Good was fortunately yeah, but we're gonna go now so no issues, no one else. Got it. It's amazing. The Jamie is the first person in studio that actually tested positive. We ve tested everyone. Today was my forty eight test. I've been tested, forty eight different time Is that the invasive one where they really go up and take your brain or is it a less? Finally led only have to do them more found? The just mean it doesn't feel good, but they just they don't go all the way up. They go kind of mid way and they just do it for ten seconds in each nostril and then they stick it in the machine and you get a result in fifteen minutes hours how much has this whole thing effect that your life and we haven't been having to do things remotely and on its affected everyone's life right doing things remotely we we have actually shockingly done, not that many remotely a lot of the people we brought in and just
ass. It everybody is so much better. I mean you know we're phrase to face mean you and I've been friends for a long time now Two years, have we been doing these things get all I don't know, maybe eight years, it's nice to see you in a hug you into Talkin to you, know, they'll, look like each other in the eye, but this is a great second best. the matrix changed in terms of your life. There is as a function of whether you do it in person now room. Now that hasn't changed they nodded. The numbers is keep going up because people were at home in their trap than they looked for content, and they also look for honest content and is not a lot of that shit out. Their headed up to the election heroin is so twisted and biased and assistance
such a weird. Weird time I mean I I just wanted to be over in hopes that it not just the election but also covered, so that people can get back to work, which I think will calm people down when the financial such situation starts to improve. I think people be less on edge. It just too divided time sold so unfortunate. But I think what else I think we ought to learn a lot from this now really do yeah. I hope so too I mean it's been. There has been talk over here because I'm on sabbatical this semester and the time. When my book came out, I was planning on doing all kinds of a world book tours and also has also stop and every it has been shut down. There has been a bummer, but at least I get to spend more time with the family. I guess without yeah there's some as long as people take advantage of this time. The you can do some self improvement. You can. You know people can meditate an exercise in writing
I think you can get done. These are minor concerns, I believe in comparison to the people whose businesses are shut down and the people who have lost family members- and you know I have struggled personally health wise with the disease, that the number of people that are losing their businesses is just insane. I mean this is unprecedented. Its does nothing like it in one of the reasons why we left California is because of their draconian measures that they're using to shut things down. You know that the initial comments, they should they were going to shut down until they flattened out the curve and the hospitals were at cop. You know where we are able to accept people. They weren't overburdened, whether not overburden now, and they still have everything shut down. It doesn't make any sense. saying now that will, after the election after the elections with it, keeps saying so they're not even trying to hide that its political
and you know Jamie and I and the rest, the crew. We were all pretty sick of it and it just our freedoms, are being infringed upon. Just didn't it didn't infringed upon. Rather it didn't seem like the what we signed up for You know we never signed up for an autocrat whenever sign up for the government to be able to tell us that we can't work. This is insane. This has never happened before and you know it makes all the wacky tinfoil hat conspiracy theories actually scene make more sense than they ve ever made before, which is even more terrifying, because Bill already been q, unarmed out the ass online, everyone so crazy already online, and this gives them more. It adds more fuel the fire that this is real and see Two billion a waterways mean that they are there doing this for political purposes, which is terrifying. yeah you know I and I'll advise it to you know if you want to raise children well, you need to have you no consiste, parenting so that the child knows what he or she
needs to do to get the strokes, and what he or she needs to do. If they're going to get punished when you heavy haphazard, parental style. it's a form of mind fog, if I might say for the child because they don't know when to x your love or your scorn and innocent I view the current cover, regulations again too. A inconsistent parent right, I don't know the I am allowed to invite people over for a small barbecue, my house, or not it all- seems very sort of flying by the seat of your path, and I think that's what stresses me the most that I can really have any sense of Larry or any predictability in my life, I think that's really that's why what other regulations in Montreal in Montreal in terms allowed to do not allowed to do and are there's your coney as an as they are here in the United States, will particular California in taxes taxes. They give you all a lot more freedom, it's really nice,
so right now we're on our second month of pretty complete art thou, not locked down on this message again go out on the street, but you can vote read the restaurants are clothes you could only take out. The cafes are closed. The gems are closed. So but certainly walk around the city freely, but most the things that you and I might do if you're gonna leave our house, we can't do. I can go to the jail. I can go to a cafe. I can go to a restaurant, so in that sense it's quite ass. I end up spending in a most of my time, either at home or I go for long. Walks is essential, national thing or is it a regional thing? think it varies across each province because of all the provinces, for you know, for much of the economic crisis, get back and Montreal in particular, where some of the hot spots, as a matter of fact, where I live, was one of the hot spots within the hot spots of Montreal, and so we were right. quite concerned, and so we ve tried
the limit to the best of our abilities you're going out, but you know, especially in Montreal, where, as you know, you lived in Boston Winter is coming, so it was easy to gonna go through covered when its April in May and June and July at school to be a lot more challenging to do the lock down when it's you know, minus twenty and I haven't been outside for three weeks. What they try to do in Elias, really bizarre that they try to tell people you can't have people over for a party. you can't have families or for your house, and they were actually asking people to turn their neighbours in which is generally were offering rewards for people- turning their neighbours and you know in the beginning, it made sense because we were worried that two million people are gonna die in. This was a disease that was gonna ravage the entire country. But then, when you look at the survival rate, It doesn't pan out if we knew coming in to give covered. We had all the information that we have now at the beginning that we had all that
formation now and they propose the same lockdown. I think people would have resisted. They have been various the problem. Is there initially agreed to it. Thinking then we're gonna be way worse than it was, and then, when it turned out to not be nearly as deadly as we feared. There was no adjustments made I hear you and you know I've had a few, virologist on my short. I think you have as well several of them have told me that they do early in the lock down that they thought that there was in a very good cost benefit analysis in terms of the repercussions. Of such lockdown, that many of the car of the lockdown, we're not being taken into account within the bodily, and I think their position has turned out to be true right. Very few people talk about the mists cancer. screenings on the heart disease and the anxiety and depression and the spouse of abuse and child abuse, and so
I dont know when that other corrective mechanisms going toward, but I suspect that people are not going to tolerate this for much longer. I think. Well, I don't know what they can do outside of like a revolt and that's what's terrifying. You know I agree with you, though, I think the World Health Organization is with the that was what we were supposed to be paying attention to, and Youtube literally said that they were going to censor anything that didn't agree with the World Health Organization and But now the World Health Organisation has come out and said that the lock downs should end yeah, they were saying that the economic despair suicides, drug addiction, everything is skyrocketed right. and the World Health Organisation in saying that the effect of the lock down it's been so detrimental that they dont support this economic lockdown. But yet the lockdown continues. So now they don't support the world health Organization anymore, which is like ok well, who is,
Authority now who's the authority, because it can't be the mayor of LOS Angeles or the governor of California, because the they're, both so rapidly Democrat say it so there so rapidly liberal that it seems like they would be happy to watch the economy tank big blame it on Donald Trump, and this is where we find ourselves. I area by the way is, is, is California the most democratic at the various levels of any state. As that would not be true said, I wonder New York's, pretty democratic swell, it's the coastal cities. You know it's something it's interesting as out. Maybe I could ask you this. Why are you think cities become so liberal because it seems like it? no real conservative cities, cities almost always go blue, suspect. That's because that's where sort of the intelligentsia end up going and as as you know, most of the folks with that.
within the intelligentsia. Typically, exactly the people that I discuss, the parasitic minded people were veracity. by all these idea: pathogens, and so I suspect that you know if you are an up and coming person who lives in bring him New York, no disrespect to New York give them, and then you wanna make at you, you moved to New York and then you get some degree in the liberal arts college. You get peroxidised by these idiotic ideas and then slowly all of these urban areas become ultra progressive. I can think what would be another explanation does so see you in actual rules and academics. That of avoid this how will managed to be so steadfast you have avoided this from the beginning, and I know you ve been criticized, but you come out of it smiling, always your attitude. it is very admirable. It always has bauble because he, but you always smiling through all the naughtiness. You seem to have a great disposition about this.
you know, I'm well, it's a lovely thank you, I think, I'm endowed with a happy disposition. So When I wake up in the morning, notwithstanding all of the possible challenges I might face in a day, I'm like a kid in a candy store. I wake up and I'm excited. Oh, my god. I'm gonna speak to your Rogan today, I'm happy. If I were speaking to general than I would be working on the next paper than I saw. This position really I'm someone who's happy, which I think predict me against the lunacy, because even though, of course I get stress the force, I get beaten down. My my innate display Mission is to be smiling and so in a sense, I'm lucky enough to have got to have won the genetic lottery being someone who views the world through an optimistic lands, and I that's what allows me to to fight the fires that I do because otherwise, I think I would be and down a long time ago. I mean the only way that, as you know, could survive in the cesspool of academia egg say
the things that I say is first of all to be as you said, happy and optimistic, but also to be I talk about in chapter eight, the book I talk about. You know activating your inner honey, badger, the honey badger is an incredibly ferocious animal. As you know yourself, he could stand the approach of eight adult lies: the honey badgers the size of our small dog, How could it be that lions are endemic by the honey badger while because he's ferocious and soap while I may have a happy disposition, as you know, if you see me in some of my battles and social media, I'm also an intellectual, honey badger. If you come after me, you better come correct. Gus come after you, I'm gonna come after your ancestors, I'm gonna come after you dead ancestors, and I think you know that the NASA decoupled but the optimistic outlook is kind of the right cocktail of traits, too have to be able to fight the lunacy.
You are also a person who embraced early on alternative media in terms of either your ability to spread your word. You two podcast all these different things. You! You recognise that there is a real benefit and is particularly long form conversations well you're able to. Express yourself, unchecked, uncensored in really get your full idea out there. So people can understand like you, not some, Bizarre reactionary has not making any sense. You you're a man who is study this your whole life- and you ve, thought through this very deeply and written about it in a very accurately, exactly- and I think I might have mentioned the story before to you on the show. But it's it's worth repeating. It's actually a story that I discussed in the book that relates to you. So you know when I went to stand for business for several years ago to give a talk such as you might imagine a very highfalutin leads us environment. The
the host who took me out that evening, a prior to my taught the night before my thought said all you do. I hear you're going on Joe Rogan. I said yeah yeah, you know we're frenzy and love to go enjoyed such a great forum to spread ideas, and he was very hearty radio. Well, you know at Stanford we don't supports you're, doing research so that you can appear on Joe Rogan. As I have already made you, you don't think that's a good idea to appear on a platform that allows you to spend your ideas, the ten million, people. Instead of writing a paper that will be read by you, your mom to reviewers and an editor. I guess you didn't like that response, but the reality is that that's the kind of leaders in that you see in academia. Where am I, happy to see that a growing number of academics are coming on a platform like yours, because it is insane to not take advantage of such platforms of Ireland the currency of creating knowledge and then spreading knowledge. Well, I appear on Joe Rogue its part gas for five minutes and have greater impact than if I published ten.
Papers in the most elite scientific journal. So so yes, I embrace those forums because pragmatically it's a wonderful I too have fantastic conversations right. It is in its beautiful that brave academics are being rewarded, the p but that are willing to go on my ipod, gas and other podcast. You know that you know make it look down upon by these scholars in the day, they d, get rewarded by enormous audiences and also curious people that no, maybe have full time jobs, maybe didn't go to college, but our curious folks that want to explore these ideas and explore them being describe our present, such as yourself, who has deeply studied. Joe. You know how many and I know you know this already. I will have to tell you how incredibly Europe for me, I be walking on a beach in Bahamas and that that literally happened my way where a law cool Bahamian will come up to me and say my god, I just didn't you
Angelo Rogan saw me, and I don't see the student talk about fame, but due to demonstrate the kind of platform you ve created, where I could in a path room and some little town and someone's going to recognize me because I appeared on the shore- and I say this not because of the recognition factor, the faint but again, if I am the business of discussing ideas. I should use every day simple tool, whether be your part gas or if I create my own path, does any way that I can spread ideas, I'm gonna jump on it, Think a lot of academics dont! Do it because of an eagle defences. Reason which, as they know, They may not be able to pull off appearing on Joe and therefore they denigrate those who can right, because they ve mastered one form of communication which, as you know, the the rigid academic paper that they can. do well and that's great. I mean we are professors we should be publishing academic papers, but why
try to keep your toes, and you also that public and get excited about your ideas right? Why I've had a lot of academics on the show, and I applaud them from unhappy that are willing to do that. But I do understand that the environment of academia, it's kind of a thought bubble right, like they're all they're, all echoing sort, the same ideas and reinforce in those ideas within each other and you know, but in their defense. This is how it's been forever mean social media, and it is alternative media like podcast and Youtube we're talking a decade or two. It's not that much time at this podcast is eleven years old. That's nothing but doesn't that suck that I always analogies academic stood Navy seals right when we choose Navy seals were picking people. we will hopefully have led us, have great courage, bravery, so shouldn't
We be picking similar trades and our intellectuals, but we're not right. So we don't create The lecturer seals, who are willing, go and uncharted intellectual terror at territories rather create you know, tepid. She, fish academics who stay in their lanes, who never rock the boat, and you, and I know the world is shaped by people who are unorthodox, why, whether it be sick. Freud telling us about the unconscious mine or child. Darwin developing his theory of select natural selection or Galileo or Socrates. world is shaped by those who want fed fence, sitters right you became who you are, would your podcast, because you decided to step out of the bubble and create something that no one else it really before our intimate conversation with incredible guess. So I always tell people
Yes, you can play it safe, but no one will remember you. If you take risks, the great wars will befall you once we the risks there, not a great that's crazy. Firstly, this progress rewarding means hilarious, because I never intended to do this in the first place, This is all just an accident. I started this podcast smoking pot and talking to my friends on a laptop and it became but like slowly but surely a place where I can get gas. explore things and I'm interested in, and Do you remember how you and I first got in contact with each other? I know we have in common your nephew Ariel how who is an enemy journalist for ESPN and I've known aerial for years, but other than that. How did we even getting contact manager? I think it was through twitter? Maybe I was communicated with our yell or vice versa. We got onto a thread together and that's how we
We cannot, then, you said: hey come on my shown, so of course I was very excited the guy. That's, I think what started it was through some. You don't action through our yadda remember the details, but look where we are now man, where we have twenty one. Twenty five hours of contacts between the two of us there and when was the last time you were on how long was, I think it was December, two thousand eighteenth, almost two years with the part TAT S probably five times six times bigger. getting me are you are you? Are you able to share any metrics just that you can make me super envious, hundreds of millions of downloads month. That is insane guards insane the weird thing is that when we went over Spotify it actually got bigger, like The numbers on Youtube in Itunes didn't shrink they just we just picked up new listeners. It's very bizarre. I expected that the numbers would drop on Itunes because we have this new platform, but since we're on both platforms. Now what happened? Is we just?
new people on Spotify that really maybe we're Spotify Loyalists that you know just had always been accustomed to a nation, we check it out and then the numbers on spot of I just keep growing and growing. So it's real weird how do you do when you wake up in the morning? Can you can you believe that you ve become this cultural I com that sort of Martha rates. All these unbelievable conversational, all sorts of incredible people- I mean, isn't an incredible it's incredible in that it's not credible. It doesn't make it a very modest beyond what I m always modest right, but but I M also honest. This is really, because qualified. That's, probably why I'm qualified, because it works, because I don't have the the Barry
what you like, I don't, have the I don't have the sense to say well, this is probably not a good person to have on for my career or like this is not a wise topic of discussion is going to I'm going to get a lot of criticism for this, because I don't think that way. That's probably why it's worked, but are you two things if I may number one? I think it's your intellectual curiosity and that's one thing that I always tell my graduate students. What they're looking to do their doctoral dissertation salon could be the hardest working person and the brightest person. If you don't have that intellect we'll curiosity right sort of waking up really excited about fix it you're going to learn that big, then you're not gonna, be the scholar, let alone a great housed on on a park. Ass, like yours, and I also it's exactly. What you said is is your your honesty right. There's that comes through on the camera that there is no b s coming from you, and I love the fight by the way that you said that you modulate, who you bring on. Let me let me share my own personal experience. I was
contact that a few days ago and if she's listing now, I'm sorry for having responded. Yet I will Skype, guided by a very famous former, porn star? I won't mention her name. I actually no her work. But have since gone and done my research on her If my wife is listening, it was completely for research purposes. and so anyway. So so I should be tell me said: hey, would you come on my show it I'm a fan knife. I word the typical academic. I would be doing all sorts of machinations in my head and calculations. Well, is it good for my brand to be speaking to US porn star. Doesn't it make me look professorial an act, the aim. It never even entered my mind. I saw that you had a sufficiently large platform that she was certainly an intelligent person very likely to reply at her and say: hey? Let's, let's do itself, and I think that comes up
ass with you, there is no pretense, let's just sit down and have conversations with interesting people. Of course, in my case, my show is infinitely smaller than yours, but it's been six swell within my sphere for think similar reasons, dewie yours has been so successful that the points I think is very interesting, because people avoid even the topic of porn but yet clearly a lot of you, or watching it and a good example- and I don't mean to throw this guy in the bus- is the the and was from the new Yorker who, on fortunately, was on a zoom call recently and thought he had muted his. the AU and did not- and why was I was at work on the zoom call decided start masturbating in I didn't know that everything Jeffrey do, but I wasn't gonna say his name once you said his name and not me, I guess I feel terrible for the man because, first of all, because I masturbate I know that's gonna sound crazy, but I do
and I know there are many men who masturbate Walter you're married, of course you master- I even before I was married, I masturbated, I'm gonna, be honest with you My lifelong masturbate are, I think I discovered it in my in eight years and I've been an avid pursuer of it ever since I think it it's a clarity device but it's also, I mean in terms of like when you get horny, get very confused men who are warning. Have one thing on her mind and it's it's a good tool to live. That one thing from your mind: you could look you don't wanna be fixated by something if your hungry should eat you dont want to be just like starving all day just eat, as I thought. But my point is what we all sort of want to pretend that we're not doing that. it's a very strictly, intellectually. We all know that we do it. We everyone knows we do it, everyone does it pretty much Everyone does it, but when you discuss it, people like
they roll their eyes. They put their hats. It's a shame. It's a very strange things. We have biological needs and if you don't attend to these, biological needs. You, I believe that you can have very confusing motives and people that are excessively horny, they their distracted housing. two Seinfeld references that speak exactly to that point already, so that the first, one is actually one that I discussed in my first, but my two thousand seven, but devilish airbases consumption warehouse. talking about how you been allies, cultural products putting it set common themes. The an evolutionary lands inside take the example of the classic apples. from Seinfeld Master of my domain right, where remember that just assume, I believe, of course, is a euphemism for withstand their master. Oratory urges the longest, and I say well: let's analyzed that plot line of that particular shop,
from an evolutionary perspective, and so the first thing you might remember, is that the other three male characters and one female one. They all I that she has to put more money into the until the pop, the bad part, because it isn't as the call for women to resist their master, but master oratory urges so that was there This point, then, as Each one was losing the bad meaning they were succumbing to their master. Pretoria. Urges it's interesting to look at what was the trigger that caused them. To lose the bad. So in the case of Kramer, because he is seeing a gorgeous young woman Anthony clad doing all sorts sexy positions as she's exercising saw what triggered him too, Masturbate was the visual imagery, whereas when it into a lane losing the bad it's because she fantasized about becoming the long, term partner, the wife of John F,
the junior rights and she was sick. He wasn't, she wasn't the masturbating over the cabana boy, who was eighteen years old with a nice ass, and so that spoke to the differences. In terms of the content of the fantasies of men and women, and then this At this point I want to make that is also from I found this there's an episode where job who decides to forego sex by freeing his mind from having to fight guess on sex, he starts learning a whole picture new languages and he solving chemistry, equation problems, because ninety Nine percent of his brain is no longer focused on you, don't sex, and so there you go yeah, that's
it's a real issue with people, but again discussing porn, or especially having conversation with someone who participates in the actual production and acting in pile say acting with air quotes. It saw its forbidden its taboo, it's it's it's you, you get look down upon for some very bizarre reason, probably has to do with our puritanical. Shame the I'm not sure if we discuss this before, but even if we have, I think it's worth forbidding is probably many years ago that we discussed it so and in one of my other books. I talk about the evolutionary escalation of pornography and I specifically, talk about porn that is directed at heterosexual, males, soap! Typically, you might think because men are interested in sleeping with many women that for now refuse gonna have one man sleeping with money the bull women in a particular seeing right and that's called polygyny-
one man, many women, whereas the study has been done, scientific study, it turns out that there is a lot more. What's called Polly Andrews, depictions and porn. Polly Andrey is one woman with multiple men. Why is it that porn? The right the two heterosexual man has a lot more scenes. with one woman having sex with multiple men and their return. Now that the explanation comes from somebody called sperm comment, this hypothesis. The idea being that men, and actually males and many species get a rise literally and see. Other men having sex example when you are trying to get a stud. Let's say horse or dog to meet with a female you. often will make him watch another male having sex and that will get the rise out of him. And so there are some really interesting scientific ways by which you its study. A product like porn
Murphy, which of course, is one of the most. You know the problem, that we spend the most money home. That's so bizarre that the so the sperm hypothesis theory there was a book, but wasn't there is a book or a paper sperm wars that was later discredit S. Yes, that's I've I tried to, Get that guy on my show. His name is Robin Baker, its exact right. That's about that came out in the nineties, called sperm wars and at the time he had retired, and so he replied to me very gracious things that look I'd love to come on you're sure. But you are a model, whole thing: cells, banks, but no fast now let me just mention what his theory was and then what people have said since so he argued in his book in several studies that he had published that when men a Jacqueline. They actually have three types of sperm within their a jacket. There is the traditional sperm that you could think of sort of fertilizer. Rightly that tradition, the head with the tale. That's looking for the egg
to fertilize then he argued that there are also blockers. So these are kind of malformed spermatozoa that actually don't look for the four an egg, but rather these themselves at the entrance of the reproductive trial, of a woman, so that it could start Eddie incoming new sperm from other men, and then there Killer sperms, that don't look for the active fertilizer look for other men sperm to kill now, if that theory is correct, and you're exactly right. That there's been contentious, points about whether it is as accurate as you said, or not. The jury is still a bit out. If the fear is correct. This basically argues that women, evolutionary speaking would have been extraordinarily promiscuous because sperm within a woman's track, is only viable for about seventy two hours so that, if men evolved, the chemical weaponry to block other men, sperm and kill other men sperm. That means
evolutionary speaking. Women would have been very likely to have made. It would at least two guys within the seventy two Europe Semi two hour period. now when I mention this theory in front of a crowd, the this will come up to me and say thank you Doktor sad. What a great ill lecture, because that theory supports the idea, that women could be just as salacious and their sexuality as men, and that supports the feminist argument. If I propose and in equally, if not even more sound evolutionary theory that doesn't support the family narrative boots after sad you're a Nazi Bubu. So it shows up, so it shows you what happens when you use ideology to judge them whereas the other few be if it occurs with my narrative you're, a great scientist. If it doesn't a core you're, a Nazi, And anyone who knows your past of you describe your past and your history on my part cast the idea
of calling you a Nazi becomes incredibly offensive it isn't it fantastic and then it has many many times button, but most famously was the time when- and I know you have become very good friends with the Georgian Petersen, Jordan and I had been invited in two thousand seventeen to speak at all. Harrison University, which is a university in Toronto and that the title of the that the talk was at the stifled of free speech on university campuses and guess what happened that speech in got cancer because you're a note of that because you know where these controversial gas and the people who are the agitators will cancel thus put out Facebook flyers where they said You know, NEO, Nazis and white supremacist are not welcome in Tehran and so what I rolled and said well,
But I'm lebanese jus that didn't alter. I was still a NEO Nazi and so It shows you what happens when people are completely press advised by political tribalism. It's insane not just a Lebanese. Do a lebanese Jew who feared for his life and fled Lebanon. Has your Jew, is an amazing. It's disgusting It's just such a stupid way to describe ideas instead of instead of having conversation. This is one of the weirdest things about our our current climate. Is that, instead of engaging with people on these ideas and discussing them, they look to discredit and it looked at his credit with these disingenuous labels and it's very fortunate and it's it's an anti intellectual approach, all its assets of illegal, because you know why, because it's so there is, Something in psychology called a fast and frugal. Europe sticks are vital, there of us we're making a decision.
necessarily said at way. The all the pros and cons of a multi attribute choice that we're making. Rather we want to use some simplifying decision rule to arrive at a choice wealth to labels. Your debate and one of these names in a sense, a ugly manifestation of a fast and frugal Europe, the great because it takes very little cognitive effort for me to deploy it right. I don't to really engage the merits of your point. you're a Nazi shut up, we're done and, as you said, I mean it is the height of anti intellectualism and by the way, it's not just the typical social media, blue hair personal. Does it even? the demagogues. Indeed, in this form of anti intellectualism? That's what upsets me the most that data no better, and yet they succumb to the same kind of facet, fascist strategies. Well, there's a spectrum of intellectuals as well, In sum of emerge, simple minded in many ways mean all
other intelligent another. The well read and their scholars. They they still big. I hate you used the word, but their lazy. They they They don't want to engage in this intellectual, gladiatorial combat about their ideas and that's what it ass solvents certainly that, and I would also say that academia. Has regrettably created if you like, the reward mechanisms for hyper. Specialization right. So when, when you're thinking about becoming a and academic a scientist, you really can We follow one of two strategies. You could become a unbelievable expert in a very a very narrow area, because that creates economies of scale right. I don't have to continuously go back and check the literature, because I really know everything there is to know about this very, very small area of expertise or you could be appalling. Math you to be a broad thinker, and, regrettably, much of academia promotes the former rat
than the latter. Now, if you look at my own scientific career, I haven't done the things that I should be doing according to the rules of the academic game, because if I were trying to maximize owing to the rules. I should only be publishing in journals that are within my neck. Area of expertise, evolutionary psychology, consumer psychology, psychology of decision making, but if go and look at my cv. I've published in medicine and economics in sight and psychiatric issues and incomplete we're behaviour and evolutionary theory and Biblioll metrics idle. Care where I published. If you have a problem, that I think I could contribute to sign. me up and that kind of speaks to what we talked about earlier. What we're talking about willingness to speak to all sorts of people? It's an openness of some.
Of mine, I'm willing to go to any intellectual landscape as long as it triggers my interest. I don't play by the rules I like to be free, but it's part of being a curious human being, isn't it and it is that we should not be encouraged. I mean it seems like when a person is intelligence. Is yours, of chooses to take your Europe your mind and apply it to other different disciplines, indifferent ideas that should be rewarded. I've been told the exact opposite I've been told by colleagues, that they were looking at hiring me at some other university. But then, when they looked at my cv and saw that I had published in all these different areas that it looked like. I wasn't folk, I was scattered. I didn't do it so you're a wonderful example of the the strategy of non not be scattered shock. When I was the actual students Cornell one of them
famous psychologist. You know within my department was a lady who has since passed away. Prevent Alice eyes in, and she was a great now psychologists, but her entire, Your career was about aspect. Not the fact affect right, your feelings, so she studied how does asset. variety seeking how does affect affect work? please, you saw it was basically affect and filling the blank sulphur forty fifty years. That's all she did so if you talked about, if you talk to her asset. She certainly was the queen of the hill. But if you talk to her about anything outside of after she was probably babbling imbecile, and I apologize for saying that measure recipes she wouldn't be able to get on the general good show unless you talk to her the three hours about Africa to me she may be. great professor, but she's, not an intellectual and intellectual as one who can go to different intellectual landscapes.
Gauge of great conversations, and regrettably, there are very few public I chose today who have that, give us they but somewhere, like Christopher Kitchens, whom I think you know Have you ever met Christopher urgent? Now, unfortunately, he died before Medium ITALY, which phantoms work. This is that a guy that you wanna be hanging out with a party and by the way it wasn't a professor. He wasn't a profession for a profession intellectual, but he was a true the lecturer in the old style of european intellectuals. You can sit down with him and talk about art or literature or science. He was well read about everything and, in a sense again not to blow the proverbial small up here behind? I think, that's what you do Yes, you may not have the fancy degrees, but you come with that the actual curiosity, so that you could speak to soar Roger Penrose one day and to a comedian, whose every second word is, if this enough that and you could pull it off with both that's the secret of your second,
well, I had a conversation with Eric Wallenstein about that once and he was like imagine what it would be like for someone. I didn't know what you're podcast was about and tuned in and saw Roger Penrose on one day and enjoy ideas on the next day they like what the fuck is this show now, but but this show, if it anything it represents what I'm interested in and I'm interested in a lot of things that I think the term intellectual as such a grandiose and ridiculous term for someone who's cage, fighting commentator understand comedian, but I am curious and I'm very fortunate that I do have friendships with people like yourself, and in our eggs, SAM Harrison Jordan Petersen, and in that I could get a guy like Roger Penrose, stood to sit down and talk to me and in many other brilliant people that I've had the pleasure of talking to. Are you aware that he won the Nobel Prize? What's in what oh, no, my rather Penrose Roger. Yet I thought you meant Jordan Petersen, those like Buon Giorno visited.
because you can't really think that Jordan Petersen does. I am aware that Roger Penrose wanted is missing I mean, isn't that we? That is, I think, the last time that I appeared on your show someone maybe Jamie conjectured either he was the guest before me or after so bad on Friday, The models I should be built being a flight, the Stockholm to receive my eyes. I don't know that way, but maybe it should yet was one of those guys we're sitting down and ass. I was talking to him, I'm like the fuck am I doing here. How has this who talk guy in doing this, and I have to do my best to not mess up does that is. Does it straight? Let what went when you- and I are speaking, of course we can get very academic gets on, but we can also job because we're friends- and you know we're both you're funny and so on that does it intimidate you when you speak to someone like Sir Roger, because you don't have sort of that camera
Audrey Outlet that otherwise, you might have with other intellectuals with whom you are personal friends with additional to intimidates me as much as it can find me I was so curious to hear his thoughts on things that was fortune But I had a lot of questions for him and I really did wanted dive into his intellect and try to find out. If you know what how he thinks about these things and what he's what he studying in what Thoughts were Rousseau's. It was very fortunate that I had a deep cures: city about the subjects so's it was, but it was certainly intimidating. You know it's you. Are they are there any guests that you ve got to have that would be sort of here the top three? I do. I know you recently had time you West, What are some people that you think sort of r r? You must have them before this whole ride ends none zero. I don't have that thought
I mean really even yet even Conway I mean I, I guess it's roses I kind of avoided talking to him for a long time. Cuz I was worried. It was going to be not good for him cuz, I'm such a fan of his as an artist, I think, he's a brilliant musician, but I also think that, because of his It's been diagnosis being bipolar. Whatever you want to say, whatever mental issues the he's had, I think they contribute in some way to his art, does he so prolific his mind is going? in a million different directions. I once in summer who is like that, but very different, of course, is Elon Musk hidden and is going in a million different directions at the same time as well in his his ability to focus on so many different subjects, simultaneously stunning colonies the same way, but in a different realm write his focused.
on design and on rap and on how religion means become very religious and and even politics but he's very misunderstood. Colonies are very misunderstood person and I think that He doesn't do himself any service by car. Of a genius and in order that our but other that other chugs, similar to tramp right, he's kind of you know Iep Pats himself on the back and palms himself up and talks about his account. judgments in its financial success and others live in it, for whatever reason those put some people are, they don't put me off, but they did. They do put some people off, but I understand why he does it understand that he's he's kind of looking to affirm that is on the right path like ie, like these are markers of success that it could point to, like you can say, he's an idiot. You could say all these different things, but hey look at always accomplished. look at what is done and if you listen to his music, I mean he's brilliant there's. No doubt
doubt about his brilliant he's, insanely prolific and his stuff is great, he's never put out a bad album, they're, all great. And he's married to an army were woman, as is your good friend got sides? That's a common argue that we, both shared with I am a big fan of Armenians in general- are really needed. why's that well there's been a lot of great fighters that were armenian, all greatest kicked of all time. One of the greatest kid parts of our time is Georgia. Trojan who is an armenian it lives in ITALY is a giant fan of his and in others has been many many fighters and the? U have see that had been armenian and I just I'm a fan of they. They embraced masculinity in, even though its the term toxic masculinity, so bandied about today and armenian culture. Masculinity is is praised in the they just openly masculine and I, like it, you know. I receive
Many many, I maybe words of emails from women, who will sort of lament the fact that no longer can meet a man who exhibits that kind of masculinity right, because what happened now, as of obviously you now is, are so confused right. Am I supposed to pursue a woman, or will I be accused of approach rape? If I give her a compliment, will that be considered complimentary bright? Because all these words are now is served by his address compliment rape as a reward? Don't I just made up cheese Please let me I thought we ve got so far up like that, but By the way you know I had to do a what those mandatory sex education tests? the start of last year. university are all professors, all students, everybody has to take it and wanted the question, I remember, the exact words was, you know
if you see a guy in a cat, following a woman on campus. Is that it form of sexual violence or something like that and you know I knew what was the answer going to retire. I answered no and that it can problems you and I know it is a form of sexual violence, and then they kind of explain it to me as if I were, three year old child, who has it yet mass the dynamics of being social amongst you, beings and soul. so while I might have been satirical about the compliment, rape, we have gotten the stage now, where it is mandatory for university participants, whether they be faculty members or staff or students today, these mandatory sexual. You know training,
Oh that's insane, I kind of understand why they want people to think differently about harassment. I get that and then I would hate to be like I've been hit on by gay men and ill its odd its complementary, but wasn't get it, but I've been hit on only a couple times my life, but a few times where was aggressive- and I was like what's different- is First of all, the man who is doing one particular guy was doing it. There was the most aggressive that I remember was not physically dangerous to me like I could have killed them. If I wanted to so I was like. Was a man stop, but it wasn't it wasn't. I wasn't it whether the rules were reversed like if it was MIKE Tyson. Who is doing that to me. I would feel terrified because if he wanted to beat me up and and have his way with me, that a lot I could do you know this-
I will try to be brief in and its also called prison yeah. So I dont have The understanding that a woman would have on a woman is being approached by a man is a very real concern that she could be raped this. I don't have that same concern unless someone's drugged mayor done something if the man is weaker physically than me, I don't have that concern, but I tried look at it from a woman's perspective, and I get how cat callings, if you're a woman that protective is a large group of men and they say things to you, that's terrifying. It could be terrified. I could understand that it's not violence. The problem with the Word violences. You start using that word with others like silences violence. No, its not violence, is violence. Silence. Silence is not violence. You can't bastardize these words. You can't distort the meaning of these words, because, as soon as you do, you're you're you're forcing people to comply with your your resetting language, your choice,
aging definitions. You can't do that. You can say it's very disrespectful, its rude and its intimidating to cat call a woman. I would agree to that and I would say I've never done it, I'm not a type of person who grow walks by my hey baby. That's not you know I've never raised like way I've. Never I don't. I don't do it. I've never done, I don't appreciate it, but it's not. Violence is just gross, it's it's, it's intimidating its harassment and if I was a woman I would fucking hate it, but we need clear definitions. We need a mean. Words are noises that we make that convey intent when you say that its sexual violence to cat call your fucking with language and you're you're fucking with it in order to reinforce, because when those violence is bad right. Every know everyone knows, violence is evil
those violence should not be tolerated in a polite society. So when you in that you attach extreme definition, extreme word that doesn't apply, but you force it in to a situation where you're, you're fucking with the, though our definition of the way people behave and think and you're doing it to sort of force compliance into your ideology and what you, what you feel the way people should share act and behave as I've. I've got a psychological mechanism that I explained in the person of mine about how you redefine realities so that you can get them. homology narrative that you want- and I call it the only one spaces of victim ology, and so let me explain what homeostasis is so if you think about your thermostat in your room, it is a homeless started machine, because what it basically says is: okay, I'm going set the temperature at seventy and it's gonna sample the air
if it's too hot, it will release the air conditioning efforts to war and vice versa right so our bodies are made of many komio state static systems right if I'm hungry in my blood sugar goes below that boy. I have approach behaviour to food right, so many of our physiological systems are homeostatic. Many of our psychological systems are homeostatic, and so I argue that this ever never ending redefinition of words and an context to make it seem as though they are rape or violence or massage any is. I called the homeostasis of democracy, which is what? Basically, there is a second point. that we need so that we can always argue that our society is evil and sexist and- and and racist and so on. If the reality is that you can identify that sexism and racism is simply wrong.
The fine words redefine concept so that you it gets? Your said, the point you ve already- maybe I saw the end and there's a similar concept. That's called concept creep from an australian psychologist that argues along the same lines right exactly the reason, by the way why someone like justly small, led, will engage in uniform victim ology, because he is basically saying. Look. I need to reach a certain level of victim ology, so I can have the right currency to ascend the bags of victim ology, and if, if I don't have that narrative, then I will manufacturing and hence the homeostasis. Omit homology by his case is extreme right because he literally its fraudulent, mean literally created a fake attack and but this. As you know, we know that event, I hate the narrative like no one would ever fake an attack
or no one would ever lie about being, harassed or attacked or even raped. Of course they were. People lie about everything like the idea. The human beings would never lie about something you that is such a gross generalization. Theirs there's a reason why there's a word called lie: there's a reason why that concept been peace, people engage in it and because We can't read mines and since we can't read minds, people can get to deceive and whenever you were do allowing people to willingly distort language where in some ways, it least encouraging a form of deception, exam there. I am it incredible how the owners unbelieving changes as a function of the political affiliation of the supposed victim right. So when the wench alike, I remember her name. Blasi Ford came up in all the night, for his communist confirmation. Whatever you say it,
Thirty six years ago, it may have happened somewhere and I'm not sure where I dont know. If it happened, I don't have any details. Well believe all women when a woman Came up for against Joe Biden with apparently more evidence now I dont know the veracity of each of the accusations, but it was certain, the case that the the accuser Joe Biden had as convent sick evidence, if not more than the former case, but now it no longer hashtag. Believe all and right, and so demonstrates to you how ugly these hashtag faster fruit the strategies are rather than sticking to first principles, which is people are presume, the be innocent unless There is overwhelming amount of evidence we either I someone or not as a function of political expediency, its grotesque. It is grotesque and glad. There's someone like you out there that describes these things in a very clear way and explains the mechanisms behind em, but does it frustrate you?
Now that we are moving seems like even further. in this direction as a society and do see a way out of this I think the way out of it is at that. I am not sure that what I am about to say is easy to implement because we are tribal animals, so I'm putting my glasses because I I'd start getting rosy. I'm going I'm getting older look. I always tell people belong to the tribe of truth rather than to specific political tribes. Now what do I mean by that? If you to me and ask me you know it's hard to. Pin you God are you? Are you conservative? Are you libertarian? Are you liberal, and I will usually answer well it's hard to find myself, because I am issues guy. So if it comes to the death penalty, I'd, give you a position that you might think I'm conservative or when it comes to immigration. You might think I'm conservative what I've got The social issues, gay rights
strategy on the I'm about a socially liberal as they come. So I belong to a group are not conservative and liberal. I am a one idea at a time guy. Why? Because use first principles and my ability to engage in critical thinking to a spot. A position on any topic that you wish to discuss with me. But I dont think that that's the name natural state of most people? Most people are, I am republican, I am a you know whatever, opera and therefore I must told the line on issues. One through thirty seven, and so what I implore. But to do as the dont be that like that, even though its unnatural reflex to want to belong to team, blue or team red belong, the team truth. If you can achieve that possibility and the United States at least I'm not really that familiar with your political system and Canada Buddy the United States at three forest, because we really only have two parties and so much
so that Brett Weinstein's created this thing Rudy, twenty twenty, where he's trying to bring together, conservatives and and liberals together and and find some common ground, and he was promoting this as an alternative to the two party system. were banned from Twitter ban. I know from better twitter banning they banned his personal facebook page and then right to say that it was an error, but it was not was a conscious decision. What you know there are people that work for these social media companies that have since laughed and now talk about it openly that they did have the freedom to edit things. They did have the freedom to delete things they did have and that they sort of took pleasure in doing. and that you were sort of given this leeway. If you felt like something was idle, logically opposed to the terms and services of of whatever,
the social media organization you Workin, for you are allowed to to make that distinction. It's very subjective, you out disable. This is. This is negative. This is negative towards our election. This is this is promoting something that's going to damage the Democratic Party, so we're just going to ban the twitter account for violating terms. Services has never been clears. What still ban the twitter account still and they just do this based on their own personal political beliefs. It's not it's not about truth! It's not about freedom of expression, but does it and you should be free to express the idea that the two party system, as major flaws and one of the flaws is human beings, natural inclination towards Turkey, elysium. We're very aware that, and if you find support within your tribe- and you have steadfastly steadfastly lead here to these. These these ideals that the left has
the right has you'll be rewarded like you're part of us yea, good job, GAD or good job Joe. You are you have adopted our conglomeration of opinions and you have stuck to them and their so predictable on both sides right and the left you're supposed to be pro choice and the right he's supposed to be pro second amendment, and they do. You know we have a series of these different thing you have to adhere to if you're on either side of that line and people take comfort in knowing that there's other people on their tribe. That also think that way, and they they find some some commonality in that and they they find this. This camaraderie and their knowledge that this person that they're talking too has also agreed to stay within along these lines, Look, I am quick story that recently happened to me regarding all these sulphur media platforms, I posted on on all my social media, perform, including on linked in April
swear. I basically said hey, you know a job I than might have been a parasitic, nothing for the past forty seven years, but just wait. Next year when, in the forty eight here he's really gonna in all solved, I and cure cancer? There was a sitter. Cool thing where I was kind of arguing that you know he hasn't done much throughout his public life. Linked in removed it because violated their community standards of harassment and bullying. who write harassing and bullying right eye. Harassing and bullying, a public figure who's running to become the president, the United States, but that was bullying to him. That's the world we live in, so I think guys, like if you know these guys- and you might want to consider if, if their willing to come on your show, to have them on guys Ec Senator Josh, Holly, Senator Tom COM, then entered crews. I've been trying to you all reform
The legal base they suffer media. From being you know anybody up, so you don't get the protection anymore than their actual publishers right eye, so that data the protection of hey. You can't sue us if we do stuff, but of course, most other Republicans and Democrats never want to laughter sulphur media platforms because the ability the of all of these top players to fund the politicians whether they are on the right or left side of the ILO is so Oh great, that must be will turn a blind eye, but I really can't see this being something that can be tenable in the future, because just like that Why did he was kicked out? Look at the New York posts. Account was reboot, right. It isn't it shut down because they were running the Joe Biden story. What was locked out and Jack Dorsey has since stated that they have amended their policy and it is in your posts, wants to post again they can and then they can pose the exact same story. What they have to do, however, as I have to go back to their original poe,
first remove it that will reinstate them, and then they can repose the exact same story and then they'll have no she's with that whatsoever, and he said that in the conversation that he had with TED crews, it's very confusing. I think that might just have to do wade their social media platform restructured Jack Dorsey, though I can speak from knowing him on a personal level. I he is a man who believes in free speech and I think that ensue the company he's fighting a battle, but he is purse. Only a person that believes that twitter should be open and then it should be. It should and open platform in he believes in free speech. I dont think that idea is, I don't think it's embraced by The vast majority of the people that make decisions over twitter- and I think I had his ideas- probably an unpopular, but he agrees with this
two men, the original sentiment of the internet. These does the ability to distribute information, but for all people he thinks that all these people that have been de platform should have a place and that the internet should be treated like a utility and that it should be available to everyone. He believes that I know he does, but I think it's did very difficult in your ceo, something that is a publicly traded company and an enormous company. That's arguably one of the three or four biggest platforms for disseminating information. The planet earth and was never intended to deep to be that they didn't see coming. obviously sounded a twitter apologist, but I really like Jack Dorsey as a person, and I think he's he's a very honest and he a very interesting human being. I think you guess unfairly maligned, but in my conversations with him I think he really does believe he's actually promote proposed
we to twitters a twitter. That is that there is some duration and a twitter, that's a wild west. Oh, I actually had upon on my show also and the just like you I mean I got the feel that he's a real, genuine energy. Genuine person really cares about the world. I think you're exactly right, that there are so many different constituencies that are pulling Heaven different directions that, even though you know he may be fully supportive of the freedom of speech that you and I would be would be behind- is gonna beholden to certain different camps, and I really do think that there be eventually regulatory mechanism that kind of sets already suffer platforms. It or do you think, forevermore we're going to be beholden to their bs? I think it's the only way out of this
Someone has to step in and they have to impose first amendment some protections on speech on the internet right now, the internet, the social media platforms- are there thought of his private companies. They can make their own decision. You know like. Maybe if you had a party over at your house and someone came over your house and they started saying a bunch of really offencive things. You can kick them out of your house, but that's your own house to private house. But when your house is the world and you you get to decide, what's offensive and what's not and other people disagree, The problem is but you're you're stifling free speech and your stifling the ability for people to make up their own minds as to what is what is an offensive? What's correct and what's incorrect- and you know it has been said-
a million times. I've said it a million times, but the answer to bad speech is not censorship. It's better speech! It's more accurate to be it's like. You have to win the battle of ideas and much like a lot of these intellectuals that you're talkin about that, want to silence
turn perspectives on campus. You see the same thing on social media people that have these ideological perspectives where they live steadfast adhered to this leftwing agenda. They don't want to engage with any one that has a disparaging opinion or a differing opinions they dont want to. They just want to kick those people of deep platform them deep platform them and they yelled out, because it's been effective with people in the past have got rid of people like Milo. They ve got rid of Gavin Mcguinness. Now it's Jones and allow these people that drive the cancer their voice, but but I think by doing so, they ve done themselves a disservice, whether their recognize it or not. They ve done discourse deserve a disservice. They ve done free speech a disservice and they ve created this tyranny of information where they have decided that they are the ones who get to decide what gets disseminated in what doesn't is very dangerous, yet you dollar ten years ago. I think it was in
two thousand, and ten so I started. I have a call about psychology today where I published these short psychology articles on all sorts of interesting topics. I haven't been for them as often these days. But when I started Two thousand eight. I was a very heavy contributor and at the time would be the most popular blogger at psychology today was a evolutionary psychologist by name of subtle she can, as I work always professor at the London School of Economics and in England, and he was a very sort of bombastic guy, very politically irreverent used language. That was perhaps at times and advisable- and he had published an- article, where he was talking about research. Not his research was describing someone else's research where they had done are you looking at differences in how you know, women across different races were perceived in terms of their beauty and
The results have not come out in a way that was politically correct. If you follow what I mean. now the way that he has handled that particular topic. So maybe a bit bombastic. Maybe it wasn't the right words, but right away, there was a huge hall to get rid of him. Funds cause you today which happen, but they I also wanted to get him fired his tenure position and I had written article, and I think I was the only one who had written a public article where you could still you'll, find that, on my column, why said you know perch a blogger sets a dangerous precedent if suppose you gonna, as was words, are wrong. What better punish is there then took keep his words up there, because the light of of the sun for ever more condemn him right. What's the point of getting rid of him, but, of course, people that it listen. To my warnings, and now it's become common ground to get
of anybody with whom we disagree. Yeah I go back to if you first in the third, the documentary where what is his name, the cancer, William S, Buckley, yes, and was the other gentlemen. He was Thank you. My mom says today Corbett, owl, unwillingly Buckley did a series of national debates on prime time television in the nineteen sixties. They were fascinate fascinating to watch. These two guys go back and forth and debate ideas and two guys are really didn't like each other and hate each other, but for the United States to be able to tune in to television, radio television and wash these open debates of liberal and conservative ideas, I think, was very rewarding for people. I think you and weed
do that now we don't have that anymore. We don't have these open discussions were in intellectual and laughed like Gore Vidal, and an intellectual and write like William S. Buckley can engage in this of intellectual combat and we could see who rises and whose, whose ideas resonate with with more p and I think it was around the time where Thomas Soul was smart. down. What we today with call social justice warriors ass, wait when we we're all in divers right I mean, I think, if you go back to this, sixtys and Seventys some of the interventions that farmers soul had on many of the issues that were still debating in discussing today. He was doing that in the Sixtys and Seventys. When we were in deeper is right. I mean there this is it not by the latter, not if you ever reached out to try to get him on your show. This is something that I think,
you wanna have loved to have a mind yeah. I would love to have minded person, but unfortunately, there are really possible right now, but domiciles, a guy was quoted regularly on twitter and often times by people that you know you would think of mean it's what, what he's done essentially is how this entire career of doing this, like well ahead of the curve accused him in stock. That is life as a liberal and sort of along the way, reformers, opinions and changed them and became more pragmatic and I'd like to see honest discussions with a guy like Thomas all, and someone who disagrees with them- and I guess to do it on prime time now would actually be a waste in our daily. Want to do it on a form like this. We want to do it on the internet. Where do you think? they would ever be a context where some of the powers that be well Cannibal,
wake up to the power of your platform and try to replicated and mainstream media. Or do you think it's simply who corrosive. Actually allowed to people who have different positions to share are the same pot. You know the same stage. I think the only way to do something like this is to have a very small amount of people involved and when you do something on mainstream media, just by definition, you're going to have an enormous group of people you're going to have investors you going to have network network network executives, you going to have producers you're going to have writers you're going to have all sorts People that the and many of them a vast majority, have a very liberal and left wing ideology and to have the ability to have on whoever you wanted. You really need a singular person
A singular voice like a singular mind who is curious about a bunch of different issues: who's not easily influenced by people on the outside and their criticisms and their that that their intimidation, like people are intimidated by attacks and criticism and insults and sold they'll change the way they participate. The way the communication in the what they put out based on that intimidation? The oh happened, the answer? Yes, is by the way when they are presidential debate, where the moderators are typically less than ideal in terms of their ex. rest buys, and that's why I was very excited night they got even shared went When the rumour was coming out that you know you'd be willing to moderate a debate between Biden, entrap I've? I thought down, that's a great the about whatever happened with other than either of their camps out to you or did you connect within what would happen without also tromp was all in.
He was all he wanted to do yet he tweeted mean he, you wanna, do it. He contacted people that contacted me to do it. I never reached out to the barred and people are fellow. If they wanted to do it, they would reach out to me and if they did, I would have done it, but I just don't think that's a good form for him Minos as we ve seen the debates themselves, specifically the law, the debate was not good for him, but would have what I would have done is like when he was saying that I've never said. I was gonna ban fracturing Jamie. What had just put The video of him saying I'm gonna banned from king and that would have been horrible for him. It would be much better in terms of getting some clarity on what is actually said and what is actually done, you know and then the other things about saying that his son never received any money from Russia that that's that's off. That's a lie. It's been disproven has been disproven. He knows it hasn't disproven, but he knows it say that on the air and no one's gonna com on ours,
Stop the moderation out to stop the thing. We're Ergo, sir! We're gonna pull up these articles and I want you to tell me what about these articles is in factual, like what is what's a lie, and are you sure that's I've? Would you be willing to say this in court, which would would you be willing to risk perjury? Would you say this in front of a judge if you, because you being real trouble. If you did that, but you just lie in a debate and the moderate is don't check, you know one says: about it? No one Google's it, but can't they just pull up a story. Pull up a video, this, the fracturing fish to precisely the reactionary yeah. Well, there's only one Jamie he's right here when I give them up, but someone could have done that in it would have been much better for the America. Public to just stop everybody in their tracks and also it. Why do they have two minutes to answer that? That's oh antiquated. This is so ridiculous. The idea that you're talking
something that literally can affect the free world, the decision of who gets control of the United States of America who what party is in control and that you're gonna put some arbitrary two minute time limit on these discussions is crazy. It's it's so ridiculous and also format- is confined by these time, blocks that they have this. Ninety minutes time Didn't you should have a ninety minutes time block you should started it like agreed upon time, sixty men six p m or whatever, whenever you want to do and then work it out like Abraham Lincoln some of the speeches that he gave when he was running for president. There were three hours hours long anyway, without a microphone in ITALY, a town square discussing these ideas that he had and they would last forever and that's how you find out what a person thinks and believes you have to, but now with the tools that we have available, the fact that they don't use those tools during the presidential debate factor Trump when he lies about some
they pull it up. Shout show that he's not telling the truth show what he. Actually. Said Jody actually did as opposed to these studies do call him out on it carbide. Now, let's get to the bottom of this, but you know, even though those tools are available. Mainstream media would have to give away control. They will give away control of their ability to navigate and steer. This narrative right now they're trying to steer. But you know the biased they're trying to exert on on our election process is really offensive. It should be offensive to people be offensive that they have the ability to google. Whether now Joe Biden really did say he would never ban tracking and they didn't. Why would you not pull up a bit? that's readily available online and say Sir, in a pause for a moment. We're gonna play this video and tell me what meant when you said you were gonna ban. Franking. Tell me what you meant, when you see
you're gonna embrace the green new deal, tell me what you said when you, when you said that you were going to do whatever the whatever the fuck. You lied about and pull up I think for me. What amazes me about when he says things? I've got an end, as I suspect. Maybe we can say something about Trump, although I can't remember quite the same types of law Tromp usually lies about. You know my penis is the biggest their women have told me. I'm the greatest lover ever look at the number a guy he's it's it's! It's bombastic boasting Romania, where the other guy right now, the other I basically saying things that are demonstrably force and the only thing I can think of that get explains but of the hot spot of engaging these types of lies. It's as if jaw by thence brain still exists in the night. Team forties where he does. I know that there is this thing called Google and computers where we can quickly have Jamie FAT, Jackie right, because what
the on the same way that he does the corn pop story, which, which is this go to do to know if he's telling the truth or not, because again he happen in the sixties or seventy so whenever he could say something thinking that it can't be falsified, because how else. Could you logically explain that he would, engage in such lies right. We're not only that, like was the Democratic Party not saying hey? This is a mistake like life and an the whole idea that there's a deadline to this process and has to be done a certain amount of time, and this is how we have to do it boy, it's so weird, it's so where such an important decision, I'm sorry, I'm just stretching my leg from around settings by another You are you willing today, to make a prediction: I'm not asking you to tell me who you are voting for, but are you willing to me a prediction in terms of who you think is going to win. I do not know who is going to win and my concern. My concern is not going to matter in terms of a sense of peace in the night.
dates. My concern is that of Trump winds. People gonna be furious and of Joe Biden. Winds, people gonna be furious and, say what I think his asymmetry? I fear that if Trump wins de the lunacy will be much greater than if, if by the winds, they give by the winds. Of course, people are gonna, be disappointed and upset, but the man, thereby which that this appointment will manifest itself, in my view, won't be as drastic as if when ever give trump when I'm gonna be hiding under my desk forevermore, I don't know. Maybe you are correct, I hope you're, not you know I I I. I really wish that people in one of the things that trumps her there was really gonna interesting during the debates, or was it knows it during the sixty minutes interview which is I don't. We saw that but would rise up what that was, that ran on sixty minutes, not one that he believes that you see both. Yes, you should see the one that he released because the one
he released is like this When was so antagonistic and the way she interviewed him, it's not the way to interview anyone. It's definitely not the way to interview. Someone is going to be the President knighted states. I understand that he he overpowers conversations. I understand that he does that, but I also think that this is also a function of the fact. I only have thirty five minutes to talk to this guy, and so he can. He can just filibuster. He can just keep going. He can just talk over. You can ramble. You can say things that aren't true. Oh, he can speak it rant and rave, and and do the things that he does when it doesn't campaign rallies. That's not the ideal way to get to him too, to really find out what is really all about. The ideal way would be like this sit down.
gas and have him here for four hours and have him sit down and talk and then stop him when he says things and stop him and go but hold ok. Understand, Sir Sir, what let's? Let's check that commission and tell me tell me why you said that when you know like when you said that the biggest attendants ever for is an operation, and then you go see as big open field, and then you compare to a bomb is an arbitration whatever its pact, so many more people clearly there's more people in this photo. Why is that is as propaganda did someone photoshop it or you exaggerating cause you kind of exaggerate? It oh and I know it's part of his personality linked to make fun and exaggerate he's in entertainer. First right he's a businessman first, but became an entertainment and v knows really well. How does
say outrageous in and then oftentimes Rep Ray principle and and and and make them clips out of these things they become sensational, and that's also. How would you gotta let in the first place them history media thought that what they were doing was exposing what an asshole he was. What they didn't realize are giving a free press how does he was talking about a medium is really a brilliant strategy. He would say outrageous things they would take those outrageous things. Put em on tv people at last half an go, I like him and then sure meters. I know what have you done? This strategy didn't work backfired. Did you feel as though a lie? out of the media, it's as if the that they humor module in their brain is completely lacking, because I watch when Trump does his trolling and again people always wrongly presume that whenever I takes opposition, a manifestation of the fact that you don't I
must have pulses of trump in my bedroom, which my wife and I use as foreplay aid, which of course, is not the case at all, I'm just coming as a impartial guy from Canada. I don't have a dog in the fight and I'm always people wait a second, aren't you being a bit too tribal, and so, let's really the extent of when I engage the topic, and so I will objectively listen to something that Trump said, and I will crack up laughing because I actually think it's funny and yet sought. For example, he says You know, I guess when I finish my fourth term, running of course, because truly right, because it is so they crazy he's a dictator he's gonna? So how do you? explain the fact that a adult with a functioning who called the journalist is unable, recognise that when he says in my fourth term is just joking
explains that disconnect in your view, while I dont think that they can ignore, because I think that they have been programme to catch people saying outrageous thanks and expose those things. So when he says outrageous things on purpose they'd, they can't help them, else, and they have on four and then people go. But you know it's just joking and they don't they. Don't they see that juicy carrot and they just run towards it, and they don't realize it's on a stick and they're like where's. The give me that fucking carrot and they can't get the carrot. It's it's very strange, but it's also he's playing on their strategy, which has always been to catch people saying things that are unfortunate, but he says unfortunate things on purpose and so that It's so confusing to them. He's hacked there their little system. my feeling is that if you sat down with Trump, you could have a fun time with him, but it will always on his terms. He needs to be the funny
sky in the room, the coolest sky, the guy with the biggest dig And so, as long as you grant him that space, he can act really be a fun guy due to have dinner with, whereas again from from by some distance When I look at someone like Barack Obama, I dont get the feeling that I would like this guy. He strikes me as hearty arrogant. Again, I'm basing it simply on the fact that I see how they act from a distance. What what's your viewed? You get a similar sort of personal feeling these guys know I have a completely different opinion on Barack Obama. I don't get it be a great guy to talk to. I am a big fan of his as a human being. I liked the way communicates, I think, in terms of a representative of the United States. You can never find a better person Yes, well, educated, extremely eloquent he's he's com, no matter what he's always reserved the way communicates smooth, and I felt, like yesterday
Yes, exactly drop is not yet a statesman, a perfect statesmen, probably the best when we ve ever had, and I think that he does one benefit of a guy like that. Is it We look at someone who's the president, as a representative of the best aspect to the United States. When you look at it, I who came from a single mother, came from poverty and rose to be a lawyer senator and then ultimately, the president I'd states, and you see him and you go while that is that's. That's an admirable person, like to be that that was. My son had been immensely proud of the way Sykes the Wake areas himself. Now, if you want in the policies you wanna get into some of the things that they have to. It's not is impressive if you as you would have hoped when he was running for president, particularly in the defence of whistle blowers like that, their take on whistle blowers in the press of some of the worst, that any amendment creations ever had so, but you are
so could say. I dont know how much the president actually has control of that how much power they really have. I tend to believe that our view of the president is grossly distorted in terms of their their real, their real amount of influence over policy and decision making, particularly terms of national security measures, whistleblowers things on those lines. I think the intelligence community has far more power than we believe and I think once a person gets an up and not just the intelligence. Community special interest groups lobbyists You know that the money in the power they got them into that position leaves them so ultimately compromised that they get into office and there realize the task at hand and also, I think then, they're probably briefed on the real problems internationally. The real problems, security was in the world. The real problems
did that we have with our national security issues, he's probably terrifying, and I think they probably have to amend all the ideas that they had. These idealistic notions that they had when they were running for off and then they have to shut sort of re and and and just have a new approach Burma's positions on a lot of things that he had when it was running for present, like first of all, how did he never legalised marijuana? How are you never federally legalise marijuana, guys smoked it again, this photos of him smoking it like. Why would you want to keep people locked away when you know that the United States is incarcerated, so many people of color for decades in decades for plants, some happy like how? How is it possible that you got out of office in didn't? Do that your entire time? I don't, I understand: how is it possible that you didn't exonerate alot of the people that were in jail for
violent drug offences. How did you not reform our definitions of like what is what what's legal and what not legal. You know what a schedule one, what is scheduled to what a schedule? Three how'd you not change. The laws in terms of what people can be locked in a cage for and when you saying custom they Colorado? Then? Ultimately, California, and all these other states becoming states that was legal in the state. Why is it not legal really. We all understand that it's it's safer than any people that they will why you worried about marijuana, because it's a personal freedom issue, and this is- and it's not it's not real, like the other than the dangers. The the reasoning for keeping it illegal they're, not real, they don't work, we know it's. Probably
and we know it's bullshit and we know it, especially when you look at the revenant has been generated by these states like Colorado and California in Washington and Oregon only states that have made it legal. You realize it would be a great benefit to be Ices, and now that there was an article recently about Texas doing it, it would be of great benefit financially amazed that people are still buying it did just now. The United States is not getting. The taxes from it and its foolish. You could all money. You can only say that the theirs gotta be some other motivation, and that motivation is probably the people that run pharmaceutical come please and all these other special interests that don't want it to be legal because it would fuck with their bottom line and it would interfere with their the money that they have coming in, and so that that's very disappointed to me very does one problem I didn't do that. He and I hear you and I guess from that perspective, you would like the fact that your journal adjusted
who, though, that legalise yeah I'd like a tunnel, although I did notice that Your views on your boyfriend, just intruder, has changed greatly from the floor This time, when I told you that he is a schmuck You now believe he's a tribe. I used to think he was a pretty boy. Let alone the guy Peter I man is beautiful. Yes, but I want to come back for a second to serve as a psychologist study. Psychology decision making up of course happen listen, how people make decisions and, in this case, consequential decisions in terms of who's, going to president back into them and three. I had published a paper looking at, decision rules that people use when choosing President's and Brown As to your dismay, or perhaps you already in all your your They have the intuition that isn't happening. People don't use heavily cognitive. Just vacations and choosing their president's. They use
he's very emotional, driven, faster frugal Europe sticks and making decisions, or, for example, when you- and I were both speaking about truth about Obama that you know he's majestic and he has a Molest Louis Voice and he speaks, the cadence other southern back this minister and his presidential, although things might be true, but it's exactly what I think I mention was on your show. I'm gonna take this to be again too the court of wine bottle there's an expression in Arabic that says getting drunk by simply smelling the court of the wine by the right you. actually need to drink the whole wine before you had drunk, all you need to do is smelled and you already drunk- and I think this is exactly what happens to people they look at Trump they get drunk by the court. model which basically says what he's vulgar he's brazen he's aggressive, he's grotesque, they don't listen, its policies and similarly say, would with Obama, and I wish
people would spend more time. Actually, as you correctly pointed engaging the pot, He saw give you an example. I could have A colleague who hails against critical, Theory at how dreadful it is and then, when Trump bands critical raced theory as a you know, something to be taught employees. He simply can give the kudos, because you bright. He saw disgusting, that's what I'm angry about better people lose their ability to objective Lee. Look at at at people's policies: rather than at the superficial clues of he looks. majestic or he looks the vulgar ogre you showed, I mean I do I do, and in that sense it does himself a disservice and a lot of ways what a lot of people had hoped at once you got an office who become presidential
like you would shift you know that was that was. I hope that it absolutely didn't happen, and you know one people catch him saying things at aren't true when he argues with them about it. It's a site then your feeding, the fire, but also to realize he's he's made enemies with so many groups, particularly groups of power that have been in place in the United. These forever, like the intelligence communities, he's the enemy of a lot of the intelligence communities, particularly f b. I mean they have shown that They were actively trying to get rid of them and then there was a lot of the people, the intelligence community. That decided that he was going to be some on the day attacked. That's just crazy mood.
talked about it yesterday with going green Wild, where he discussed how Chuck humor had openly said that it's so foolish for tromp to attack the intelligence communities and become an enemy, the intelligence, community and there's gonna proved to be foolish and as a threat like did that the intelligence communities were going to go after him and they obviously have that. Did. That seems to me to its its fascinating, to see it. It's fastened to see these mechanisms being put into place in these stories, like the universe, Steel yea were he's, got russian hookers piano and all that jazz like the fact that was printed in that they talked about that on CNN and was printed in major newspapers as a possible. So true, story like all that is so bizarre to say it's so bizarre to see his personnel
be flaws, amplified and weapon. Ized ended not concentrate on just the policies, but in many ways he's done that to himself you know you don't: Victor Davis has no doubt he say They classicist, who was a fellow at the Hoover institution at Stanford who has written a book and promoting his book now rather than my own, but that was written a book about your wife. You should have voted for Trump and so on and he because he is a classicist who has studied the greek mythology a analogies trump to the classic? example of Sophocles of the tragic here all right. It didn't you the feeling that Trump simply want someone being made. Because he is narcissistic. He wants someone to say good choppy areas where it was an and the fact that he could never get the mainstream media even remotely beef minimally fair. If you buy,
and critical race theory, or if you support, you know, you know absolute free speech, you should be congratulated for that, irrespective of their political stripe, but yet because simply could never give him any kudos for anything, then his bombastic sort of Brad bragging gets the five, because he is the tragic hero saying what do I need to do to get you to just tap me on the back? Wasn't I think that Victor Davidson's Hansen's, an analog analogy rising with the crack classic tragic greek hero is exactly spot on four trump. but it is unfortunate that he has its desire to get them to pat him on the back, because it is never going to get. It it's never forget as Europe by the way you you mentioned, like the Glen Greenwell, you know the past I sort of always thought of him as gonna lefty progressive, you dont obey their sugar, but I've seen him several times appear on Tucker Carson. Would you
also show that you should appear on because its Fox news is on, and I've always found it to be in credibly, fair sold. My esteem of I have to apologise to him here and on the record that I thought of him in the past a sort of this really annoying kind of progress. Guy, but I actually find them to be in credit the fair minded in the way that a hand as these types of issues, I mean you agree without. I couldn't agree more and I think that's. One of the reasons why I decided to go on talking across in the first place is expose his way of thinking to a lot of people that may have had these predetermine ideas of him and his prejudice. Ideas of him in and out it's funny because he actually had the same opinion to me. You know like what, when we did it, gas yesterday, was like eyes. I saw you before. I thought he was some guy who platform to many, these all right. Assholes and he hates trans People- and it was a minister- this near show is always not is not at all, and you know it's
easy to do it. It's easy to have this sort of reductionist perspective of someone and decide that guy he's a lackey leftist progressive, just ridiculous ideas, but Glenn Green Walled is an honest man and he's a man of principles and in his courageous and that's why he released the Snowden papers. That's why he's done a lot of very important work in Brazil and these AIDS hated forward by some groups in love by there's an that's. You know he's taken a lot of chances and I find it to be incredibly, intellectually, honest and an he's also willing to discuss some real, landmine issues really real hot button topics in own. Without it, got into some of them yesterday, and I respect him very much It is to me, as the journalists that we had twenty thirty years ago, the real truth seeker who yeah, of course, we all come with our political preferences.
But once you put on the head of the journalist you're supposed to keep those at the door- and he really strikes me as a journalist of a bygone era and so good ass to him- hats off yeah, I I I respect him a lot. I think. There's there are journalists like him, Mattei YE be theirs is quite few of them out there that are sticking your neck out and you know they and they take a look of attacks because of that, but we need more of them. We need. We need more people that are gone this world, is going mad and we have to. We have to look at things accurately, we'll have to look at things for what they really are, rather than what you want them to be, or where, rather than the description that you say, we know you're gonna get love for your true from your tribe, because you, if you know drawn the correct line in the sand. I gotta Then I switch objects is really for some hours. Ask me something. I hope it's not a problem for me too. bring it up. So you recently obtained a you know huge deal with Spotify. Of course, putting you in a whole new category in terms of wealth has done
reality altered your felt level of happiness, and let me explain why. I say this because I received countless emails from people who says other things you up a similar things to what the talks at the start of our show today, where he said. You know you always seem so happy and positive and all discussed up, and I always try to give them an answer in terms of what are some pathways to happiness and maybe I'll I'll write. My neck spoke on this topic and I always tell people that you know don't rely really. On Monday, I mean money innocence, it's an inverted you up to a certain point. Having more money makes you happier, but beyond that point its diminishing returns, there's an affliction point where it doesn't really alter your love. of happiness in anyway. What would that be? erect of you and that the fact that you ve got this huge deal doesn't really alter, your? U dont, global holistic level of happiness now does make any happier now I'm happy when I could do
stand up, and I can't really do stand up right now, I'm happy when I can do podcast very fortunate to do that. I'm happy my family's healthy, I'm happy. I have a good friends. Those things are still there. Those are the things that make me happy. I'm happy to be able to talk to someone like you, I'm happy to be able to express myself. you know, I'm not a guy who needs a lot of money for stuff. I don't. I don't live the most extravagant life in a dress like a bum. I just have a really changed much about that kind of stuff. I think that, if anything, it brings more pressure, because Once people realize you're making a lot of money and they put you in a different category net, then they sir criticising you more, whether as because of jealousy or because they realize you know you're more viable target. You know resonate people more, especially during this climate, where so many people are losing their jobs, so many people are losing their businesses to see someone make a lot of money is like fuck that guy.
And then you find more reasons to say, fuck that guy and even distort that per opinions and perspectives, because if it fits your narrative and it helps, you criticise them easier now it He hasn't, but also, I didn't trust. I think it's good to be in it with a company that
Has an interest in your your show being successful, instead of just being on a platform where they benefit from you, but they don't really have a vested interest in you. The communication that I had with the head Spotify and the people that we made this deal. They want the show to be successful, they have an interest in it being successful financial interests and are being successful and also that had a spot. If I was a fan heat he likes listening to it, it doesn't want didn't, want it to change and we ve gotten insurance that it wasn't going to change in a lot of people really concerned. By now you gonna have a different kind of a show, and now I'm just gonna, do the exact same show: there's been zero input in terms of like someone telling me hey, don't talk like that. Don't say that don't bring. These subjects has been. None of that is much the people speculator. Has this been none of it, but it doesn't doesn't make you happier. You know you're you're, happy when you don't have to worry. When you have to worry about your bills. That's when money makes you the happiest. That's that's the
big leap, because I remember when I was when I first got my first development deal and I went from being really poor in not having any idea. How is gonna pay my rent to having a lot of money in the bank, public six figures in the bank and then there's the huge wait, lift off my shoulders. Remember that feeling a member the feeling like once I looked at my bag, Keller, who, like you, have to worry about my bills like village, stay out of my life there, are you on the increasing part of the girl right, you're and other. more money lead to greater happiness ass. I did we get to a point where there is diminishing return, whether you have ten million or thirty million are a hundred million does absolutely not doesn't had one millimetre of happiness. Dear global I'd know it doesn't it, but one quarter. Can do add more pressure, and that can only make you less how and then you also like, I said to you the target, more criticism that can make you less happy if you pay attention to it, but what I've done is ramp up my physical exercise
eyes. My meditation and my as in California at least my yoga have really been soon that out here, but I've been doing a lot of exercise and as long as I have physical struggle like like a tremendous amount of physical struggle, I I'm really good at letting the rest of it just wash off my back as I give myself so much physical struggle like my mother, doubts or so intense that whatever the pain or the frustration of the difficulty of key, this is a moral hazard pails in comparison to what I do to myself. So it sounds like a crazy persons approach to things, but I really got a method to my madness. It turns the way my mind works. You know I work out, like I'm training, for something like of some insanely difficult physical task ahead of me that I have to prepare my body for, but I really do that. That task is made
any Saturday that that I have a lottery. My body has a lotta requirements and because I am in this high pressure, sort of stressful situation, with this weird this place that I find myself in, where This is skeleton crew of people me Jamie mostly that reach millions of people all of the world account of this ever happen annoyed if I sat around thought about all those people listening and all the people that are mad at me. other people that love me and expectations and criticisms. lose my fucking mind, I really I would, if I got into it and start engaging with people and argued with those people all day. I would have no time for my family I have no time for anything, so I consult with myself. I think about it myself I spend time meditating. I do deep breathing exercise in the sauna, and I work out like a fuckin terrorist and then
the other day. I'm ok and I can keep doing that. do you ever have you know that sort of the noisy brain where you're trying to sleep but you're thinking about thirty three phase, because I'm thinking of someone like you who you know, has multiple careers so that that the stressors could become a yes as though you are only a broadcast house are only laughed and Emma may God, so it is their particular area where it's dead the call to shut off your brain, because you are uniquely worried about those particular stressors them. The biggest Strasser are my own failings, the biggest strasser of my arm, my own errors and the things it I've done wrong the things. A bother me when I've had a show where I wasn't at my best, or I said something that was an accurate I said it in a way where I could have done a better job of expressing myself those those things Bother me. I am, I sold my biggest self critic,
so funny. You say this because I'm going gonna relate what you just said to something that is drives my behavior, so one people tell me what do you take on all these fights? You notice to fight against these bad idea is at its at so much trust your life. I always tell them that I have, and it's gonna speak exactly to. What said about yourself. I have a very exacting code of personal conduct so that I am truly might you know my most severe critic, because I set the bar very high set at it. End of the night when I put my head on the pillow in order me too not suffer from insomnia and do not feel like a fraud I to know that I've done whatever I could took it Have you to the battle of ideas, not, however bigger? However small? I don't have your work is in full as but I certainly have some influence and so for me to be able to go to bed with my whole person had intact. I need to feel as though I've done all
I can and that's what compels me to. engage in the way that I do, and so I really do appreciate what you said about sort of having this entry, section where you now it could be exhausting right because you, come, your worst critic did I say the perfect thing that I say the right thing was I had my best but in his and maybe its best for you to be your own credit rather than others to be your critics right yeah, I was told people, I'm not a fan of my work like. If anybody has criticisms. Believe me, I've, worse criticisms, but I think that's a great regulatory mechanism, and some people say I should take time to smell the roses I do outside of my work. I do. I love friendships and I love life I love my family and I love. I love a lot of things. I love a lot of things but
when it comes to my work, I'm pretty ruthless on myself, but that's a great regulatory mechanism for keeping sanity with something its public cause. You're doing it publicly. So you are exposed to all these peoples spectacles and views and criticisms and praise and and both of em are equally toxic right. Did the criticisms can change the way you feel about yourself to the point where you could in a lose all self respect and hate yourself in? You know- and I just want to argue with everyone who doesn't like you, but also the praise you can get delusional when you could start to think you know you are someone special. You are different in the rescue, you won't, you don't have to try our and everything you do is amazing and, that's probably worse, I think it's it's probably better to bees like ruthlessly self critical than ruthlessly self congratulatory. I think that's, that's! Actually, probably more tat are not actually definitely think it's more toxic and the people that I know that lean in that direction. They all turned a shit load. Their work suffers
they they lose their ability to another damn whether or not there doing something good or bad, and one of the things that people always say when someone becomes exe, what as like, how remain reliable, like How do you are you maintain clarity, but that's that's the introspective part. That's the ruthlessly introspective part like. I don't think, I'm any different anybody else enough, costly telling people all I've ever done is just keep working and grinding and so like, if you're on a path and you're you're, you're running and you're running for five minutes, while you're gonna, you know, you're gonna get x amount of feet thousands of feet ahead, a mile ahead of what are we gonna get, but if you're running for five days, you're gonna get further, it's just natural. You run for five years. You gonna be further. You gonna run for ten years. Fifty it it's just a girl.
You just keep going and if you find yourself ten years into the run into go, look how far I've gone. I'm amazing I'm the best. I am known and unknown, and you just kept going. That's all you ve done. Anybody could keep going and get better. If you pay attention tension what you're doing and you are ruthlessly critical and you do have days where you do something that you don't like. Will then you don't do it that way anymore, and then you think about what you did wrong. You think we could do better and you apply that information and you apply some hard work and some discipline and you keep fucking going and as long as you do that you're gonna get better even I think that doesn't seem like you get better at it like with conversations, but you do you do get better at you. There's an art form to conversations Well, you can make it in a way or the people that are listening it it. It resonates, think they it's it's nice to hear they like you yeah, I think, more than anything it there
an intimacy. In these conversations right I mean right now. I got completely doom that there's nobody listening to us and is two guys talking to each other in a very in old, familiar intimate way, and I think people take that and even on my own show, I think that's it your happens? I often noticed when people come on the shore before before. I turn on the camera they're nervous, but then I unicef them at ease ass. He looked forget about the fact that there's gonna be some people watching just haven't normal conversation with me and then within five minutes. You see the the morphology of their face change because they really just get into it, and I think it really speaks to ie. in others is old kind of adage that you know people have short attention span. They want you know clips to be three minutes long, and my good This has your show proven that the be all about his income as you can get, because again, people are your speech king in people's brains right by the way people were
so upset when my latest book, I did do the narration because they had so Gotten used to my voice that Irish, I mean I want to say hate mail because they were very polite. They were fast, but this we are so disappointed that you there narrate your own book, because people. I didn't you was all eyes the other. Thank you for asking. I asked by the publisher, so my public, the publisher cells, the rights of the book to an audio publisher. And I proposed to the all your publisher look, I can narrated myself and they said no You know we have in house narrators and that we're just gonna go it. That's why I don't know if too, because they don't want to set up a system for me to do or maybe they thought it was an altar. The bottom line sales but day I propose that. They said no and I said, find science, a huge error on their part now wish of yeahs, and I wish I had talked before and I would have had you insist that you married it?
yeah. I agree with fans fuck that next book redo this one man really what I always say, People when you have as deep and silky voice his mind. If I were to now, my own voice at my own book. It would be distracting, so maybe I'm doing them a service by had easel guy read the book now now. Is there a way to fix this? Can you kind family doing around your baby round to manage to do it right now to doing yes, a hundred percent? You should be narrating your own book for sure. First of other, your thoughts in your words and your writing, who better to to read your writing. The you, which would only be you they should never been a consideration than anybody else, would do it. I mean my They concern to be honest with you was, I guess, you're right that the whole book should be. By me, but because I use a lot of sarcasm and humor and satire, and the book has a lot of personal, an adult, I was worried that
narrator, might not be able to big. Does not me on one may Go Shermer, listen to the audio books early before it was released, and he said that the I did a reasonably good jobs, I'm going on his opinion, but maybe you maybe I should have done in other shermer is being very charitable, is good at it. is good job. That guy could be it's like. Listen If you wanted to have someone read George Carlton's act when that be offensive, you wanna hear those words from George Carlton's voice. You would do You have the same way with your work man. He d should have been no consideration whatsoever to anyone else doing it. I got a date that small that we just had an online ascended and shove it up the behind of my publish their foolish. They do that all the time they did it with my friends, deeper analysis and then, as the rights ran out, he eventually got the right ray. He has a book on the American Buffalo, it's a fantastic book and it's a real
a brilliant book about his own journey to understand and native American Buffalo and knowledge, is it's a great book but its greater with his voice, narrating it he was upset because the publisher did not want him to narrated initially, just like they did with you. They had someone else, do it. They had no attachment to the words they didn't resonate with, they didn't mean anything to the to the guy. He was just an actor reading and I'm sure the guy reading your shit, it's just an actor to that's crazy. Have you have you thought about. Maybe dipping Europe, Bali, math toes into Writing a book. Yeah have absolute right, a lot and I've been writing a lot lately, especially during the pandemic spent quite a few hours sitting down and and thinking about that very thing. I had a book deal in the past, but the two The interaction that I have with the publishers and with an editor was so frustrating that I gave them their money back
but this was what will as well as the problem they wanted to be like stand up. They wanted me to write, stand up essentially and even offered to pay me to just take my act and just transcribe at NASA. That's ridiculous! That wouldn't work like don't don't do thou, that's crazy! So what's the audio book gonna be me doing stand up and no audience at so dumb, like that's ridiculous, I'm not doing that and I and then I wrote some things and they wrote some weird things like my thoughts about. Sometimes I act as if life as a simulation. I act with the knowledge that life is a simulation. I, like a literally go and I approach every every interaction of my day. Occasionally with the idea that life is simulation. I did it in a humorous way, but in a way that you know that the concept is, of course you know
if there is a simulation that so good. You cannot discern whether or not it simulation. How do we know whether not wherein it right now and when you talk to really intelligent people that have studied this over and over again they say it is highly likely that that is the case. We will one day reach the point where simulations won't be discernible without knowing how do we know if we're in one right now- and I was- I was saying that I I spend some of my time- behaving as if I'm in a simulation and that this is these days, the benefits for the like this is too weird. Now my guy think weird like sometimes I think weird like this is here and there we wanted to do like, like punchlines in each each sentence, MIKE I'm going to give you a little back yeah. I got to tell you I mean so this is for aspiring authors who are listening to this. Show I eat you The touch on a very important point: the relationship between the author
the publishing house in general, but the editor whose handling your book is really akin to a marriage, because you are out mentally sharing with that person. The first draft of your intimate thoughts, like your book, is your baby and so, in my case, My editor with for this for the pursuit of mine was just the perfect because you know when you send off the first draft. I mean you're scared right because if you think It's a great book. You think you ve done a great job, but you don't know nobody's looked at it yet this is gonna, be there The sky was gonna, actually look at it. Is he gonna say what the hell are you talking about, or is he gonna be and saw the feedback I got from him was really just one main thing. There was very little, he said. Look your book is too long. We need to make sure that when people are reading this book they can't put it down. You could you're right. I think it was my first draft. I gave you was ninety three thousand words. He said we
he to scale back to about seventy thousand words, but he was very polite. In sharing that feed back, because he knew that it's tough tell an author whose was spent I'm agonising over every syllable. A cut off point, three thousand words from your baby, but but I think it have to come with the humility and eat. You can't be. The type of guy says I am not a change a goddamn syllable in my book, as I actually took his feedback to heart, I didn't make the cuts and I think, the book as much stronger for its. I really think, there's gotta, be this unbelievable trust and intimacy between The editor was handling your book and yourself. If that relationship doesn't work well, I think the book will suffer. I don't blame
publisher or even the editor does it before I got the book deal before I had a podcast so or a day. I don't think they understood that I just like to talk about shit. Sometimes they wanted media approach like a stand up. Comic writing a book like a book with will allow comedy in it, and you know like if anybody goes back and reads my old blog entries. They weren't like that, like some of them were humorous, and some of them were just weird sum of more just as strange thoughts that I have about life and and oftentimes. That's how right stand up in in general. I would write essays long essays and add those essays out extract a few sentences. Those sentences would become bits and that's how come up a comedy? I would do it like. I was a mining like when you mining you
not getting all gold you getting a lot of dirt and you got to like shift through that dirt and then I'd find the nuggets and I'd set those nuggets side, and then that was my process, but in the process of doing that, I would write a lot of things where I was expressing myself on unusual and bizarre topics and they weren't into it does the first time that you shit that you introduce, new material to some yards to someone is it, for example, will you do that bit in front of your wife before it goes out on the road or of the first time is in front of an audience always yeah. I was always first time in front of an audience always usually I'll say something on a par gas and it's funny and then that it becomes a bit but most the time I have an idea and the first time I said what I'll do I'll make a shit sandwich, meaning I'll do a bit that's. I know
works and then, in between that bit out I'll sandwich in this new stuff and then, if it sucks, then I'll go on with a proven bit afterwards. So as beautiful, of your have material already cause. You have like little scaffolding, and so one of the things that I do every time I release and Netflix Special you have a special and then you have all this time off after the special We have to write a new special, so I have usually about three to six months between them, only of especial too when it airs so during the time. I make a lot of shit sandwiches, so I have those bits that I know and then I sandwich in this new stuff and then some of the new stuff is great right off the bat, rare. But occasionally you have a finished product like from the paper to the audience, and it works right away and you you, you ve nailed. It resonates right a lot of times. It's not like some some bits they take forever to figure out.
And you gotta figure out, you gotta attack it from all these different angles and it could drive me crazy, and I saw a recent, the show that you are on or whatever come ass, a document you, I think it's father the comedy. store, I'm really enjoying it. Actually, my wife got into a too the last one that aired last week. I was in feed could you heavily where you are talking about the other, many store lie. What is the name of the woman that ran? It commits Betsy Charette, I remember ice. We demanded a link what I'm about to say to what we talked about earlier in terms of trunk, getting the approval You know that he wants an eye, Was I was moved by how you were moved when you first had Let's see say to you, hey, you're funny. I mean that, The sense demonstrates that we are all looking for that eagle straw from the past in that. We care about in this particular case, for you, the,
holy GRAIL, was permits me to give you her and premature, and once you got it, it was like he had won the Nobel Prize right yeah. It was one of the happiest moments. My life consumes like that MECCA, calmly store or when I started out doing Stana been nineteen. Eighty eight in Boston I had heard about the common store from everyone everyone talked about. That is where SAM Kennison started. That is where Richard prior used to perform an you. You would hear about all the great Robin Williams. All these different people who were out at the comedy, store and allay, and you would see video of it on television, and you would see these these comedians that you knew where the greatest of all time- and they all came out of this one place, and there was this one woman who was her vision and she's without a doubt, the most port in person in the history of comedy outside of comedians, its Missy sure she's, the number while sheep.
She allowed, the lunatics the run the asylum, and it's it's bizarre family there, where the only currency was. Are you funny it didn't matter? you're a woman or a man or gay or strader black or white or asian Herb, EAST India or whatever the fuck. You were, are you funny and if you're not fuck. You you have placed was ruthless, it was, but if you are funny and you made it came a paid, regular, you're you're. In this view, very small group of human beings. There's probably say a thousand legitimate professional comedians on the planet. Earth out of those,
one thousand years may be five hundred that are really good- that can headline in like in a theater or an arena or a sell out a common club, they have a following people come to see, him might be less than that, it might be being charitable. It's a small group of people, because it's so, tat brutal business on your self esteem. It such a brutal business on your emotions and it's so hard to get good. You know you could start off kind of good, but to be consistently good over and over and over again, to put our consistent specials to consistently improve its so much worse, and most comedians. This is a terrible thing to say, but it's true they become good, and then they start suck. They get to a point where they get that adulation that grew talking about and they embrace it and that's all they want. They don't want to grind anymore. The come or force you to grind because you weren't just performing for your audience. If I was going up
any given night. I'm not just performing for my audience. There's people there that are there to see Whitney Cummings, that AIR Sea Eliza less ensure to see Joey DS due to see Anthony gentlemen? I'm just one of many many many people that are on the line up and there are killers. All these committee is just Busy no alleyway They just be smashing, smashing smashing and you go after them, you gotta, bring the heat, and you are also trying to work out, material and it's a jam? And it's like it's also there's like a fan Molly aspect to everybody's, like especially over the last decade in particular, because comedy over the last decade. We realise that it's not you dont have to have a famine mentality anymore, because everybody in the pan, ass was are competing for alive amount of slots on television to everybody was completed. Parts in a movie or parts on television shows or the hosted the tonight show, and it was like a prairie dog eat dog. sort of environment, then, with pod, casts the atmosphere changed, and then it became known
each other you get on my ipod CAS. We have fun. I tell people to watch your show. I tell people you're gonna, be it the Chicago Improv in an and then everybody really Honor we're in this together and then it became like a brotherhood and sisterhood became a family thing, and now it's much much much more supportive than its ever been in the asked so then the common store became instead of this, like antagonistic sort, a battleground. Then it became this place where people go to like refresh and see their peers, so everybody would go on the road one of the best knights of the commission. Tuesday night, because no one was on the road on Tuesday night, because the Tuesday night, but it would come into town, and so the people Sebastian Manasseh go or all these people that would do Madison Square Martin on the weekend. They would come to the communist on a Tuesday night work out new material we'd all see each other, So you'd go there on a Tuesday. Ninety be three sold out shows on a Tuesday night. It was madness and the lineups we're just insane you'd look at the line up, so you go look at this line up crazy, like anywhere in the world, you have to pay so
much money to see this line. Dave Chapelle would stop being Chris Rob- was there any view? Would pay twenty bucks twenty bucks and get to see like degree it is commonly you ve ever seen your life and in the word got out and it became this place where consistently was sold out seven nights a week and that all happen within the last ten years and specifically from two thousand fourteen on when I returned, because we have been talking about That was what that episode. The commissioner was all about. We talked about it so much on the pod cast we're talking about me and I would advise tie so often about what a great place it is, and I guys like Tom, Secure and Bert Crusher and Irish of fear. My show and we talk about the fun times we have and people are travelling from all over the world to come to this place, and we were there because of the vision of myths. Shore were there because of war, woman because she in a nineteen seventy said the only way he's gonna work. Is you let these fuckin crazy people do whatever they want find themselves on that stage.
All in all that matters, is it your good? That's all that matters are you funny is the audience laughing, Well, then, you doing your job everything else. I don't give a fuck about. I don't care about the industry on care about agents. She wouldn't give free passes to anybody and all the other clubs like that, the industry and the agents they would all hob companies, clubs because they with it was their social players, they would get free tickets and free drinks, and they would sooner Usually they have become a problem. We talk too much in and get loud and they weren't listening the comedy and they were drinking too much, but not Tommy store store. Fuck, you pay the money. Twenty bucks, like you, know all this someone from Icy am fact cam, she would say I don't care about agents, care about anything. But comedy. Are you funny and so on, does it say I think that you mentioned earlier that the United very tough business to be and because of the rejection and so on. I think
Jackson is such a fundamental part of of life itself example. When I send the paper to do a journal that food to be period dude, I mean the rate of rejections and top journals is in the order of ninety. Ninety five percent are means of Cyprus. I don't think what that means. You ve just spend tooth for years working on a scientific project, you another six months, eight months to write it up, you said to a journal, and you have a ninety ninety five percent chance of being rejected, and so I always tell my students that you know Junction is really part of being anti fragile right off. The moon has not set up. it's very good rights is a very good, but also a fellow lebanese right. So fragility is something that as long as something does kill. You right in the old outages squeaky doors, don't break, which is basically rewarding the cause of a magic fragility in all you and I grow because of their rejections right and I think
of my graduate students, oftentimes disheartened by the odds of a paper being partly because it, my god, I'm gonna, spend the next thirty forty fifty years operating within the domain of of interest, where the likely of my work being rejected, consistently, isn't the autumn. Eighty. Ninety ninety five percent, it's a tough built, a swallow, but ultimately it The process ensures that that which does get published his top quality, and I guess innocent similar sense is the same for you guys that the person who ends up making it is hopefully funny there is. I think you told me on the first show that I ever came on your on your part, cast you had he had compared what I do to yours and probably of all the things you said to me. That's the one that I remember the most you said the others the very similar in what you do and when I do in that, it's impossible well to hide the audience, We'll find you outright. If you, if you get into a ring as an enemy fighter, you can't fake it. If you get
two in front of a stage and you're not funny you can fake. If I get up in front of people- and I start espousing stuff- that's garbage- I'm gonna get secured, and so I really appreciate that because it shows that yes, what we do is, is risky it's honest if you're good, the crowd will tell you that you're doing a good job and the way to get better is through struggle and the best moments of my career of calm after the biggest bombings. like there's something about bombing that like wakes, you, the fuck up at such an awful feeling, it's like you, gotta get better. So if you, if I look back on the beginning of my career like there was moments where I had horrible's horrible shows why just eight shit on stage. But after that I had a big growth spurt began. I realise what went wrong. I never wanted to happen again and are restructured and I got better and I worked harder and that's that's why is it that was wrong. Usually is it that literally
the joke, or the anecdote that you're telling? Is you ve overestimated How funny it is, or is it that the delivery, the timing, but what is it? That's? Not! working that you say this bed is going into the dustbin. It could be any factor does and a number of factors. It could be your attitude, you you, you carry with you on stage. You could be to cocky or too confident and not engaging enough, not not not not on all. I see it not even if our humble but connected to the idea of expressing the bit rather than you killing on state of some people just want to go up there and be great, you know, but what you really have to do is don't don't think. I want to be great. What you think is what is the best way to get this into people's minds and what are the best ways to be completely tuned in to what you're thinking and what you're saying to be locked
focused and also you it's gonna, resonate with you. You have to really think this is funny you me and it takes a while to figure out what about it is funny to cause you're. So close to it, you wrote it you're sitting there with it. you you don't left if written it and re written it three or four or five times, maybe assignment humorist, you and We have to figure out how to make it humorist in the way gotta do. That is a lot it's one of the rare art forms. Will you need an audience to really put it together to create it and you might get a bad crowd? You might get a crowded drunk, you might get a crowded just had a heckler thrown out five seconds ago, people said you might get a crowd where the person before you had a terrible sat in the audience like why we even hear this show sucks, and then you got a kind of re, energised them and reengage engage. They might have a preconceived ocean of who you are when they look at you. Women have a problem with that. women the glanced agent men are like girl, she's, not funny
the women have like a bigger heard. I think I think commie for women, probably at least fifty percent harder than it is for men. I really believe that I did like the perceptions and a lot of men have or very prejudiced towards whether women are not with women, are funny or not theirs, So many Everett factors there. I think I might discuss it on a previous show by one of my former post docs, his daughter this rotation was on an evolutionary study of humor and the argument why's that human. as a sexually select the trade meaning that you more serves as a proxy for intelligence right. As for the and that there are sex differences in the frequency of your top comedians Evelyn hey perspective. We would argue that they are stronger selection pressures, evolutionary pressures ferment be funny as part of their elaborate courtship rituals than there are four women to be funny socks off, for example it on
never have the following words been uttered, sure, Linda, you have a gorgeous asked, but you're not funny enough. We're not gonna have sex right, but the other way. It certainly has happened where a woman sees a gorgeous guy, but he's a dud he's, not funny he's not engaging, and she decides that he's not the right. You know partner for her right. That's why women consistently say I want a funny guy because their effectively say I want a smart guy, I'm it's hard to be funny and witty and be damn guy correct and saw you you're right that is much harder for women to be comedians but invite evolution explains why there are sex differences in terms of frequency of comedians Zammit says yeah does the going back to Chris Riches. He wrote a bit of it, It is in the very fair right example about women are being fought, and people will idle, no matter. How do you explain that using an evolution of respect that, I don't think so right, I don't room his perspective was that women who are funny take on male
The risks are they usually very butch, and in oh and very you don't use like road, I think he's Roseanne BAR as an example and some other women who you know have like a brash, almost masculine perspective, on common aim and its its. But to get back to the point. There is a lot of factors when you bomb, and I do believe that, though the bars higher for women, I think it's more difficult because it perceptions, but I I just think for everybody its it's about how much fun your having up there it's about how much focus in time he put into the material how much, how much time you ve spent doing it to this like a comedy, is in this sense it's a form of hypnosis you. You learn get the audience to think the way you're thinking and when someone's on stage is doing really well. For me as an audience member, I let them think for me
like when they're they're going, I guess I'd, I abandon all my robe preconceived notions. Allow them to take me on a journey with their words and there there there acting it out and it's it's fun. I love it. I die in this one of the things that really is help me throughout my careers and I'm still a fan of stand. Comedy, and some comedians lose that in other loot they lose the love of watching. as an art form unfortunate, have you ever met, comedian. When you saw their acts, you thought they were funny, but when you got to know them personally, they were dad's. Their interactions. We, because you are you a thing that support was you have ok, we haven't a lot of, and how do you explain that this there? Why would you be funny in your personal life, but funny onstage. shouldn't. They translate from one to the other known on it.
necessarily cause it. It's like a musician when they, when you know you meet someone, there are great singer. Should you be work enthralled by their speaking voice? Yoga when there's a lot of comments that are very introspective and very often they're all shut ends and they We come alive on stage. Some of em are miserable and like the they only only become really funny when there in front of a crowd and they get to to do their thing it's! Your Jenny was apparently, I didn't know him too well when he was alive and met him a couple of times and is the one. Committed suicide yeah. He was one of my favorites. He was brilliant, but notoriously a miserable purse. like. I would always ask when, in the old days when I would do clubs back when radio is a thing They take it a morning, radio in a town and is usually a guy work for the claw. Maybe
in a local host. Who would pick you up at the hotel and then they take you, and I would always ask like hey whose, like the worse person you how to travel with whose a worse person you, how to bring to radio and a lot of them, would save Richard Janni that she just didn't want to be there. He wanted to be a tv star movie STAR and never really worked out, but what he wants, as was one of the most brilliant comedians ever. But even though I love to go see him do stand up, that's not what he wanted. You know it's like that, Billy Joel Song, the piano and in our sure I could be a movie star. If I can get out of this place like that. That was him. He wanted to be something that he wasn't. But what do you like? He didn't want to be on the road all the time
it's working in the clubs, but what he was for us for other comedians was one of the best examples of what a stand up comic could be. He was so fucking good and it's so hard to see his specials and to really appreciate how good he was alive when you get a lot off of his does he was obviously really funny and brilliant is. Writing was great, but you would see him alive and he would go down. He would you'd have come like leaving a show shaken their head like. I will never be that good he's so good. miserable in real life, just not not happy and not necessarily a funny guy off stage, but onstage use one of the great. But you know it's funny, because you, when you said that he was miserable in in in the fact that he was a comedian rather than a movie star, now it better if we circle back to one of the first that we talked about when we started this conversation, where you said you know you're happy guys and on its speaks,
to the importance of really pursuing something that on a date, The basis makes your happy. I me I got tons of emails from people who say professor, I finish my bashers, and this is what should I study for my masters? What is the markings? What is the market suggesting? I should always seldom? No, please don't look at it that way, because you're going to have to wake up, every damn it to the place where you spend most of your waiting time is at your bright and the fact that I am happy sure I'm disposition the happiest just might innate personality, but I am also happy because I have a job that I love to do other. I'm writing a book or speaking the jargon are giving a lecture. You know I'm always excited by what I'm doing. Therefore, it for me not to be happy for someone like this committee in this regrettable thing, where he committed suicide at that that mismatch between where he wants to be and where he is every day, is a terrible for most people do not commit suicide, but they do wake up.
Fifty seven say you know what I never wanted to be an account, and I became an accounting because my told me it's a safe job or a dentist, or a doktor or whatever, and I always tell people- and I know it sounds cliches you you have to find what makes you passionate and if you can do that, I think it's one way by which you can guarantee happiness. It's one of the only ways that I always speak of this quote, because, where my fair quotes ever by thorough most men live lives of quiet desperation, replied? Yes, that is not where you want to be in everyone's different. You know some people love to do stand up comedy some people low, that some people want to be a musician and there in, unfortunately, they make furniture in others. Lot of that out there and not everybody can be a rock star right. Not everybody be a famous painter, and I dont know
other than what I do and what I've done my path, I dont know what it would take for someone to be successful in their chosen feel it's not mine, I dont know, but four January hee hee is of an era where, if you really want to make it, you have to be a movie star. That was that was he looked at guys like Jim carry, and you know it in all these people, like Jerry Seinfeld, became a television star. Tat was what everybody wanted. They wanted a thing. They want to stand up to be the thing that got you the ultimate goal now comedy is the ultimate goal for the than this generation of comics it also it's it's become a different thing. Fortunately, Is there something? I hope it's two percent Bush, but that's what your partners law. So there is theirs. the theory and psychology that looks at the psychology of regret. So why do you ask people what do regret boss?
and there are two possible sources of a red regret of action or regret of actions. All regret of action would be. I really regret that I did this in my life. Regret of inaction. Is I really regret that I never pursued that in my life and it turns out oh, that for most people, greatest source of regret for them or stem from inactions, like I regret that I didn't do this so if I were to put it on the spot and say right now today. What is the thing you regret most, unlike what would it be? I dont have a lot of regrets because I'm I'm of the belief that everything that I dont even the mistakes that have made they have given me the information and the knowledge that has allowed me to be who I am today and who I am today, I'm trying my best always to be the best version myself, I'm not always successful, but I try my best to be the best version myself and failure is a part of that mistakes.
To that end. It when it comes to the regret of inaction, I don't have any of zero regret of inaction. Not you know, nigh on water, inquired dream of clinical psychology we psychologists would be out of business is everybody was, was made up of Georgians Bob and its insanely fortunate. I have read dream jobs I'm out color commentator for the ultimate fighting championship. I'm a lifelong Marshall artists, that's a dream job, I'm a professional stand of a comedian. I work the biggest venues. I have the most fun I've, great friends, dream job podcasting, which I never even thought, was a job because become this amazing job and its I love doing it again there are no one, but I was leaving the house today. No one, I was gonna, get it Aren't you online nothing but happiness just that I was looking forward to it nothing now thing regretful about it at all. I'd have zero regrets in terms of inaction or any I regret that I have of action the thing,
I've done wrong were in our people. I've read those things. I said that I should have said has made me a wiser. So I don't even have regretted that I mean the trouble I would. I would also say that having a family that's true soulless it is really an important parts, are for me when people ask people ask how do you, How do you handle the stressors of your life? I know that when I come home I have my children, whom you ve met. I have my wife and they really are my soldiers it. In other words, there is I think I'd rather do when I have some free time than to be with my family than to be with my wife. She He is my best friend and of course, there is no prescription for how you can guarantee that you can pick the right life Reiner, but really try to make that decision as carefully as you can, because that itself
be either a source of great happiness are terrible misery how terrible misery. I know so many people whose lives have never really worked out because they ve chosen the wrong people and they ve had these insane relationships is terrible. you know combative relationships with the significant other it's in, but you have to be the person that attracts a person that is equality. Human, It is true that if you don't have anything to bring to the table, you're you're in all of Europe filled with Sir of hate and loathing and anger and all the jelly. see and pettiness and that they are not going to get a person. Who is a good person it's not it's not gonna happen. You gonna fix yourself like so many people think you're gonna to find a person that person going make them happy. Now. I think people enhance your hat in us! It certainly makes you happy here, but you have to figure out who the fuck you are.
you have to work out your own bullshit. If you want to have a good person in your life because it good persons that could be attracted to someone is all fucked up then going to want to be around you? You're gonna be a problem for them, and you should in a non selfish, where you shouldn't want to have a good personalize. Your mass is you're gonna fuck up their life, you're gonna get to death, but I agree with you having a family and having people that you love, love ones. If, without that, you don't feel complete people need love, and such you know it's. It's such a clean, a thing to say in all you need is love. It's not all you need, you need food and shelter, and but if you have every but you don't have love, you will be fuckin miserable through so many people that are successful, but they dont have love and those people that some they ve it's an imbalance. Right mean this. The this standard, cliche of the the billionaire ceo, who works
sixteen hours a day and is in a way that it has as honest fourth marriage and has a bunch of kids at our door galaxies. He was never there and you know on paper he successful, but Real life is a shambles because he spent all his time, concentrating on accumulating wealth and accumulating power, and none of his time on himself in and how we interact with other p bullying and being a good father and being a good husband and being a good friend and and and being a just, a decent human being, and sometimes those are the hardest things to do. It's easy to concentrate on the task at hand. You know if you just distract yourself from your own. Barbaric humanity and just think only about accumulating numbers in a bank account I mean that's, that's Michael D. listen the Movie Wall Street right just greedy, racked with
giving any names. I have family members who have been of that type. really have never fostered long term ships as family members. I don't mean my own family, my mouth, I made my my family earth where become. They became very wealthy where they collected Ferrar, ease and asked the margins, and I've told worn these founding members that you know life is long and if one day you're to lose your money, and I hope that you got that right. but there is not a good one and I hate to say that its turned out that way, because you know I love- is a protective belt May we get older right, so when you did, I mean it always be accompanied by great quality people around you, but you should certainly have those great quality people as you, and the golden years of your life I think, regrettably, for some of these high flying gotta players. They they think that the
he's, gonna go on forever and it isn't and so yeah you not choose carefully who you're going to go to bed at night because that's what other sources of happiness and also, if you get if you can concentrating only on success terms of financial success and that's what a lot of people do that are in business right, your real. Your life is fixated on numbers. Your life is fixated on accumulating numbers and it's just it's an empty pursuit, but it's also a pursuit that becomes insanely addictive cuz. You compare yourself to the people around you. You know. Mike's MIKE's house is four thousand square feet of my house five thousand square feet and then you happy with it until you realize it. Steve's houses, seven thousand square feet you like fuck, and he lives in the either that the really, though, that the best neighbour, But- and I live in and not so desirable- neighbourhood- it's not as desirable as is, and I have a poor. But he has a ferrari like, oh, my god, you're losing your fuckin mine is Ebay up with the job.
as ravage the physician or the positional economy is a real term that catches exactly what you just said, which is by the way it not so much in for many things, what may such happy is not so much some absolute level of whatever the currency is but that we have more of it than someone else so so it got, might have even mentioned this. Our previous show on your back ass. So, for example, if you ask people, you know that you are you happy with your sex life, the amount sex. You have is less important than the fact of you having more sex, that you're, close friends right which shows you again how much of a hierarchical species we are. We use social comparison to the site whether were happy are not right, Jack. It's weird like it. What what is I think that for a lot of people goals, make them happy achieving goals in all like having something that
working towards and I dont know surges mean financial girls. I think that's where people get tripped up just thinking about financial girls but accumulating skills, getting better things to me that that that it makes me happy, or at least keeps me, engage and satisfy the something about learning new things. It's very rewarding getting better at things very rewarding. But not if all you are concerned about is numbers, not a fear, you just doing it to try to achieve bigger and greater. Like you're talking about the point of diminishing returns, it comes to financial wealth. I think come from. I think challenges are important like having things you're working towards because they give you this sense that indeed doing these things and getting better where the money is getting better playing chess or getting better tennis or would pick a thing there's something about the develops, your overall human potential. When you get or something you, U Flex. The muscles, and
exercise the muscles of getting better of of feeding our problems of being engaged when you're stagnant and just do the same thing over and over and over again with no change your mind atrophies and you speak what you said earlier when you said using the covert lockdown for self improvements For example, one of the things that I did during the collar locked out- as I said, because I I am now addicted to this step, counting thing yet all bets. On my iphone, I said you know, I wanted to always maintain at least fourteen thousand steps per day, so as a very concrete goal, but I knew that I had to reach that benchmark and the matter, if at all, tenable at night, I have to go walking around the block eight times get ahead. That mark. I was gotta do it, and so, by doing that, it gave me great satisfaction, because I could look now at the last seven.
nine months and see that my people, Butter is showing that I've maintained this very specific objective and saw that feels good. It's funny users, a book now read recently by Adam, alter its called irresistible and it's about addiction to technology. and one of the things that he talks about. That's one, the most addictive things were people is these fitness trackers? Yes, people get addicted to step counts and you know how much exercise and exertion they put four in a day and either, even though it can masquerade as a positive for some people predicted people with addictive personalities, it can become a real problem. In my case has been good by the way. I was recently on how to know what you think of her, but I was under the ship with a pocket of Julian Michael STAR Superfine, it was re weight which, by the way, that shows you all of these in credit what connection is that today we have an what world wide I you know, I, professor,
evolutionary psychology and so on, have connected with Gillian Michael's, but fairly. She was a fan of my show and invited me I'm so again the social network stuff allows you to meet. He's of worlds that you would have never, a possible ten fifteen years ago. Yeah really does I don't know much about her. I know she's, like a weight loss, lady. She makes people lose weight right. She gets flat, that's, General grant defence. She was on the the loser shown she does after I don't know, but I job to their at the start of the show. I told her that you know what I invite people my show. I have all sorts of illustrious people, most of whom my wife, never better denied by what she found out that I was appearing on Julian Michael's, jet I'll tell her I'm a fantail around the fan. So apparently I finally got street read by appearing on Julian. Yes, she's supposedly like a hard ass right like she is lady has it that makes you get after. It people are not way. I feel
The others have been remiss and pointing to the fact that I'm about twenty later than the latter time that you saw me when I was on your shop. I think a little shut out from your organ say well done. Side would have been the appropriate thing for you to do, but offer How could I know I sees your shoulder head? It I'll see a bit the faces, nothing you look good I'll. Tell you that I don't know it at last. Twenty pounds- oh that's great- with of I still have a lot more to lose, but certainly from my maximum point about actually but more, maybe about twenty five pounds down. That's great. What did you do to do that? you know for me, it really has to be about almost turning into a gestapo concentration camp. My wife keeps track of my calories. She turns into their manga lay. She make sure that you know I'm getting this once I Aviate from that sort of narrow path,
become assume or ressler vertical yeah it. For me, it's pasta, are you gonna goes right. Am I got this something about pasta and bread? I can just swell up on past and bread when I cut all that stuff out a majesty vegetables and meat, I just slim right down its my my weakness, for I guess it's the Italian and me my we s is pasta and I don't need a small amount of it either preposterous amounts of food. I have always ate on the always eaten ridiculous amount of food, but but redeem when I meet pretty easily satisfied but there's something about carbohydrates, like especially pasta that I could just keep funnel and that stuff in my face, even after I'm I'm already full. I know I'm full. I shouldn't be eating more might one more and then, after that sugar eaten Kagan Pie and
I and whipped cream on it. I just you know I get gluttonous, I'm a gluttonous person, you know is there's an ongoing joke that I am sure you probably don't check it, because you know you probably get tied a million times on twitter, but often times I will post something decadent. I'm eating, and then I will write please. Give me Joe Rogan afterward. Somehow you ve managed to incorporate yourself in my color Mary conscience, so that every time I did something bad Joe role, It is on my right shoulder. You know. Insulting me MA am sorry about that. or maybe I'm not sorry, maybe is helping you. I mean something like like that's the thing people love that term fat shaming to use it as a priority, but there's something about fat shaming that can motivate you? Someone says it's like we're talking about earlier things that feel bad, like oftentimes they'll force you into action, you know
and I don't want to hurt anybody feelings, but sometimes, therefore, things need to be heard a little and ordered a proud them into action, and you can do that with people is just like who do you do it too? Who needs it? Who would be thankful who gets really badly hurt by it. Actually I've written. I had written an article on my psychology today, column the fence Gillian Michael's, when we just got the second, because she I've gone after, but in a very polite way. She had gone after little saying. Well, sorry, but I'm not gonna celebrate her body, because it's not defer to be this overweight and suddenly she was this monster Nazi, because how dare you not celebrate lizards body is one and and I said women are you insane have why should she be celebrations of fitness expert help expert? Why should she be celebrating someone being three hundred pounds, overweight or whatever she was and so had actually defended her. So your exactly right, the truth
sometimes herds, but we need to say it while someone- specially, like Chilean Michael's, mean that's her expertise, she's a fit ass trainer enough for her. The idea of getting that big is preposterous in the idea of celebrating, say everybody's beautiful little. That's that's ridiculous! That's not the case. You know beauty is rare. That's why it's so cell braided, because where someone does achieve an amazing body, we know how hard it is to do, especially how hard it is to maintain you mean Gillian, Michael's has had a beautiful body for a long time. I mean that means she's, incredibly, disciplined. Of course a person like that is going to look at someone who's, not disappointed all being celebrated for her body and go that's ridiculous and she's right, because this health consequences, too, to being that big and to an inn, ignore those health consequences. Just to make yourself feel good that you're making someone else feel good about being morbidly obese. It's not right, it's not smart. It's not good for anybody minutes not nice.
Just make fun of her and shit honour and say terrible things about her. That's nice either, but it's not, is to say you look great matter. What does that's not really the case? It's not true, and of course, by the way they are marketing campaigns that have become famous in selling that bs right so does does it. Sadly, that it doesn't matter how overweight you are were all equally beautiful, so it is what's on ice. it should say marketing. In my my the school, I say yes, it's a very effective advertising campaign, because It empowers women, but if you are a truth. Purest you're really, but bs, because we're not equally beautiful beyond say, is not as desired as little you beyond, more desired solely as desired anymore, designed more unilateralism. Clearly she is a perfect bought it yeah. What did the weird thing is that that doesn't apply to men like now,
buddy looks at a man with a fat gotten goes your beautiful, no matter what nobody says that like man my place well, because, of course, women do look at men's physical markers, but not the same issue. because in the sands, men can compensate for some of their physical shortcomings by doing well and other metrics rights, or you could have a guy was very funny whose maybe not tallest, but he has great personality or a dominant precisely about when it comes to is a quality, it's difficult to compensate for that. You There are officially symmetric or you're, not right. So some trades. We can compensate for them. On other Is there a sort of deal breakers right, guy gas, but it's in a way, It's really sexist to women's rights, because we were saying your only valuable. If your body looks good and a lie to you and say you'll be about. It looks good, no matter what girl you look beautiful, you treating them like the children, whereas with men
You know? You see a guy who's fat illegally that slob you know you're allowed to no one will say: you're fat, shaming, known, says: you're fat, shaming men, it so fat, shaming, is always in response to someone saying something about a woman's body. I'm right you, never men were fatter funny. It's like its humorous to see. Like my friend, pressure when he goes on stage. He takes his shirt off. So you can see is good and he does and up amusing Chicago recently didn't outdoor shows thirty degrees outside, as he did it with no shirt on my dad is a letter so committed to showing everyone is, got that debt, if he just, but he raced Farley. Chris. Finally, perfect example: John Candy was another good example like, but but for a guy like that, Does no fat shaming? It's not like you know. You say to Chris Farley, your beautiful, no matter. What is this? Not true, you know it's not true, but it's ok. Do you say to a man that is not true.
It's. Ok, you tell him he's fat, but That's just because the person head of a man is not as clearly tied to his physicality that I don't think that sexism, its Bob, it's called Evelyn, right. For example, the trajectory of the bathing value of men and women changes throughout their life, history right a woman, is more desired. All things considered when she's twenty than when she's eighty, that's not because life is ages. That's because It's called biology, whereas a man's making value increases right you and I were more likely to be rejected when we were twenty, then we are today because we have more status in this. I don't think that life is sexist or ages. There are certain income
irreversible truths about our reality, and we just have to deal with them. Isn't funny to the people want to deny those incontrovertible truths about reality. If they don't make them feel good, exactly that's as yeah really unfortunate, but it's really funny that some of the people that also say that you should Body, shame they're the same tat people to make fun of Donald Trump ramming small hands. How is it tat is like whenever it's convenient you all, you will forego those rules. well, that's that's hypocrisy. One of the curse of the human condition, yeah there's so many curses of the human condition. Aren't there it's funny? It's even if we are aware that we still can help fault. Pitfalls. That's why there is something called the seven deadly sins writers, because moral philosophers, theologians were well aware of many of their quicksand traps that we could fall into a they put them into a easily
I just have a list for us right. Well, that's why it's important have psychologist, like yourself, explain exactly what's going on in the mind: that's force EU and these where little traps and halls. Thank you, sir. Do you so your book that you put out the parasitic mine. We are. We barely talked about it this the book, it out right now it came out, over six so far is doing really well varies. by basically is the story of many of the things that we ve been talking about. All the years that are becoming on your show, which, as they are a bunch of these terrible ideas, these idea, pathogens that were spawned on university campuses, because it takes intellectuals to come up with really dumb ideas and outside I trace what these ideas are how they originated, and then I offer solutions for how we can provide ourselves against these, but ideas how wicked vaccinate ourselves against disordered figure
now I'm sure these ideas, the way you're describing a makes some people uncomfortable like they? They they upset people? Have you ever had a lot of criticism about this book so far, not too much criticism, because I'd like to think that I've done a pretty good and temper job in presenting the evidence, so one of them things that I tried to explain in the book is that each of these bad ideas start off with a colonel of truth, but then in the end and some noble cause but then in the pursuit of that noble cause, the idea gets the story. And it becomes parasitic. So, for example, one of them the feminism equity. Feminism is a great idea because it basically says that men and women should be equal under the law. There should be no institutional sexism. We can all agree to that, but the pursuit of that original, noble goal. We shouldn't then say, as do many some say that there are
in eight biological differences everything's do those awful construction. We need to make men and women indistinguishable and the pursuit of the original goal when it still transgender activism. It's the same story, you and I both be fully in favour of transgender rights, as I think we both are, but that it means that we reject biology what I call bio phobia in arguing that eight two hundred and seventy five pound guy was set. Six point: seven all this to call himself Linda tomorrow the enemy against women one third his size and if you say otherwise, you are transport and so on basically argue in the book is that each of these terrible ideas, started off from a good place, But then it metamorphosis into a complete the boy you're from reason, and then I offer ways by which we can sort of red tape
reason and logic and science from these parasitic ideas. Now, when you construct a book like this, do you look at it in terms of how people could potentially criticise these ideas and what arguments they would have against what you proclaimed, while each when I try to do is to offer a way by which it becomes difficult to argue against, be because the evidence is too great, and my favor We stop people that, when I walk into a room, if I walk with the requisite swagger, it's because I know what I know but I also have epistemic humility, meaning that if Europe They asked me, Joe Jimmy
position God on the legalization of marijuana. I would tell you know what I simply don't know enough about the story. I haven't done my homework. I haven't build to use the term from my book. I haven't build the normal logical network of humor them evidence that would allow me to pronounce a definitive position, and so I think, if I a good job in the book. I have communicated to people away by which, when they are constructing, arguments they can do it. boy of hysteria. If I want approved your job that toys References are not socially constructed. I can prove it to you by bringing data from across cultures from across time periods from across disciplines showing showing to you that toy preference does have a biological signature. I don't need to get hysterical, I don't need to get emotional and so offering people and epistemological truth in
stabbing went at all that something is true for all the damage as yeah how of you'd ever debated someone who disagrees with your positions on these things, someone who has made me a social justice warriors perspective these ideas, Yad Skull, Tuesday, ninety nine percent of my waking life doing nothing. But that are you good. My blood pressure is I've because of that right. So yes, but but but in all seriousness I face both in my public engagement meaning the sound so familiar whatever, but Also in my scientific careers, I think you'd die might have spoken in the past. I have all his face that consistent debate, because Many of my colleagues in the Social Sciences, even till today are very, very resistant to accepting the idea biology matters when it comes to human affairs. Right as as I think we discussed in the past and saw so, it's really in a sense this book.
in writing it for twenty five years, because I have seen didn't. I tell him to one of the book. I basically say that I faced too it wasn't my life, the first war, was the lebanese civil war. When I was a child and the second war has been the war Unreason logic and science that I have experienced as a professor of twenty six years, some of this stuff, is being taught them promulgated at the universities is absolutely insane. I mean it's people think that I'm making get up and I'm being satirical Erika wisely these things, but you now see the downstream affect them all. Those bad ideas right, you you're, seeing it in age, are parliament's you're, seeing it in the training in the military you're, seeing it in political parties. So these de as start off in the universities as some esoteric nonsense, but but with enough force They become mainstream stuff. What these people graduate from those universities and gone to enter the workforce with these notions,
have and these notions are reinforced by the other people, that of their age that graduated along with them, and they will a recent society in this, the these ideals equal and then one day they get older, and then they get a mortgage and then they get a job in the family and they go what the fuck was. I doing, but exhaustive, already started this process it's interesting? These say this denial of biology and its in its effect on human affairs is such a strange thing because its clearly a factor its clearly. It's it's a significant thing. It's it's. We know it's it's Real, it's a real thing, but it's the denying of this particular factor is very strange because it I get. It comes from a hopeful place right because you, if we can argue that you, our job and mine has equal probability.
To become the next Lena Messy or MIKE. Jordan. Ashley now monsieur Michael Jordan, we're all born with equal, equal potentiality, we're all born of equal footing we're all born that will arise up so again, that's thanks to my point earlier right, these ideas ass agents. Free from reality, but they do so in the service of kind of. I feel good normal. Cause, but it is perfect, detached from reality. Men and women are not biologically the same, we're not all likely to become Michael Jordan. John, gender people have every right to live free of bigotry, but they should compete with biologic the females of their trans, women and so again. I think the difficulty is that for most people our social justice warriors. They think that we can. to come and walk at the same time, I could be for all of these noble causes without
ever murdering a millimeter of truth yeah, and the physical issue is very strange to because physical variables there there. So real and to deny that, as a factor as a real factor, who you are and what your potential is. That's one of the reasons why sports are so interesting right, like a prison like me really doesn't have a chance to compete against Lebron James. I just does not gonna happen Does this it's not on a table, and to deny that is, it seems foolish to deny physical difference. Isn't one of the reasons why sports are so interesting as you get to see these freaks get to see these rare people that can do things that you know for a fact. If you had a million years to practice, you could never cheat. the things that they're doing an but by the wage, John Watson, like that one of the founders of me. A european army,
you'd. Basically, I have the exact quote in the book that you don't give me any twelve infants I could turn any one of them into the next beggar. The next surgeon the next aptly. So he was sickly arguing for exactly the position that you are so rejecting hey. I could turn you into the next. Lebron James, if you give me the right opportunity to properly condition you and socialize you it's insane by the way, even for example, in psychiatry very recently at something as clear. The organic as schizophrenia was, blamed on the environment. Right you had a schedule rejecting mother right who you too much or didn't you enough of course today, with which we agree, look better than to see who who believe this nonsense well Freudians dead right. So so again, It's not as though these ideas are not espoused by otherwise very smart people, John money of jobs
is university. Who was one of the original sort of gender as a social construction used to eyes surges? Well, don't worry about it. Do the surgery on this the boy and put I'm an address, call him Linda and he will be a girl because it was thought that gender is completely due to suffer construction. It has nothing to do with biology, so these ideas have real consequences there, not just some esoteric thing that talk about the humanities department? Well, at one point time you were one of the first people. There was arguing the dangers of this stuff leaking out of the universities and peoples. I was foolish, like your concentrate something that's a small factions ample therein the universities and has no bearing on the real life. But then we see in particular, the protests in Portland, where they went on for, like a man, think they're still going on over a hundred days of I'm trying to light federal buildings on fire and in writing in the streets. It still happening like that. That is literally
Those chickens coming home to roost they'll, get it exactly right. Look I'd always the largest intruder previously on your show, just the intruder as a war fucking manifestation of almost every single one of the bad ideas that either Sk Us and the parasitic. My he's in trouble was modernism he's into diversity, inclusion and equity he's into cultural relativism, your every single one of the dreadful things that I talk about in the book he exam, Likewise it why? Because he is a product of that education, a process, that's what you're supposed to think as a progressive, now that he is prime Minister. He institutes each of these ideas. They have real Consequently, not I'll. Tell you a good story that just and took to me recently. My daughter came to me and told me that our science teacher an avatar of Berlin in there
dialogue and their whatever zoom or whatever it was called, and I thought that was very objectionable. And so I wrote a very polite but firm letter to dvd Isabel, saying that I didn't think that it was appropriate and depressed of her by the logic responsibilities that a teacher with us signal beyond belief, filiation, two young children and secondly, I then said, but never that, if you look at but the positions that are espoused by be alone. Their truly grotesque, whether it be the marches stuff, whether it be the boy the premise and whether they be the clear anti white propaganda as off Is this something that's appropriate for teacher to be doing well within a few hours? taken away. It was taken off right, so that was innocence me activating my inner honey badger right. It's not that I just got on it Joe rugged shoulder talk about these ideas. In my personal life, I got engaged, and I that's what everybody needs to do. You need to be engaged
in the battle of ideas, because they have truly severe consequences on our children and their children, but there's a lot of people that are afraid, they're afraid to engage in the battle of ideas cause. I don't wanna, be labelled a big it and they don't want to cause people to attack them and they had rather just keep your mouth shut and complain quietly to there. friends, but I earlier we were talking about all of the different frailties that the human condition as from today cowardice is something that I am always said should be added to the law. Standing list of seven deadly stands. We should have an eighth syn, old cowardice because I want to sound hyperbolic, but the the young folks who landed on Normandy, given a guarantee of safe passage? They knew that most of them were going to be more down like little skeeters by the machine guns of the Nazis, and yet they said, hey I'll, go I'll, do it and they did
they made that sacrifice for the general good and got side can today sit in a free society. This conversation, so I stand that people are afraid of real repercussions and I'm not suggesting that people should be reckless martyrs, but what I am saying is that you can simply say too afraid and I've got too much to lose. Let got sad, led Jordan Petersen, let Jewel Rogan put their neck, underline they ve got as they can. No, we each have. Small part to play if we all grow a pair and speak out in unison, will get rid of these ideas by next Wednesday. If we don't will be a long ride. The hell here here. I think, that's a great way to end this. We just got them three hours, believe it or not, that nuts Maybe it's sit with you. I thought that was three minutes you're, just the best manner. Audibly! Listen! I feel the same way about you appreciate very much you book. The parasitic mind needs to be add by you in the audio but please
whoever is listening, audio people, the people that risk with the publishers. Please let GAD read it. Please, Do you think it was an honour is, as always take care my friend but by thank you friends for tuna to show and thank you to simply say visit, simply saved calm, Slash, Rogan right now get a free security, camera plus a sixty day risk free trial with any new system order. There's nothing to lose. Go today to simply safe dot com, Slash Rogan S, eye, p, I as a simply safe dot com, Slash Rogan, were also brought to you by Butcher Box Butcher Box. Make easy for you to get high quality humanely raised meeting, you can trust and for a limb
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Transcript generated on 2020-10-29.