Hi everybody, this is how we begin ready set go. The first part of the podcast is not required listening, it's essentially commercials, but occasionally it becomes entertaining in fact sometimes more entertaining than the actual podcast itself. This is disturbing and as we're winging this entire thing and have no real program for how it's supposed to run We don't know what to say when that happens. Sorry oops. I took what one too many hats to to to to do. Many hats well back to one of those shows, ladies and gentlemen, expect, possibly a few oh Brian moments. This podcast brought him by kerosene games. Uhm kerosene were brought to you by a bunch of things, but everything were brought to you by. We believe in that is one hundred percent pledge we're never going to see dog shit. We're never going to sell you something. That's not good,

we've been offered a lot of different things that we didn't agree with, that neither Brian or I thought were interesting or just you know stuff that it just it just didn't seem like it was something that we should be endorsing. So that's what we're trying to do we're trying to only endorse shit. We would use we believe and, and this kerosene games is a brand new start up and they have games that they're developing specifically for ipads and for iphones and high end Android devices starting in February, and what What it is is a lot of the games like especially like really high end big beautiful

seems a lot of them start out making him for consoles or they start out making them for a pc and then they ported over to an Ipad? That's not what these guys do with these guys do. Is they make badass games right out of the box for ipads and touch screen devices? The various intuitive controls that they've put into these games they've put in and design for use with an Ipad, so it doesn't feel clunky at all. The graphics are fucking awesome, it's a really cool game and I've gotten nothing but Paz, feedback from people that went out and bought it's only three dollars. It's really cheap. Two hundred and ninety nine, I don't know why they say two hundred and ninety nine, not three dollars stop playing with me. Why do they do that? I want to save a penny. Fuck say three doll They should do three hundred and one says it's supposedly, some psycho logical thing, and then you pass that people working here we're just a nation of pussies. That's what it is like one penny of one penny keeps you from fucking buying some

well, can I get it for two hundred and ninety nine and then I'll be happy with my purchase with three dollars. I don't know if it were three dollars and just a nation of people poisoned by car smoke or something, but not this mother, fucker this blade, slinger character, he's like a bionic cowboy. I don't know why they call him a cowboy 'cause, there's, no fucking cows. I guess I need to do- is wear that hat in your cowboy this mother, Fucker we've seen account is life. I mean how you got this guys, the last thing from a cowboy you know what cowboys cowboys a guy who has to take these cow. And moving in a certain direction. The most boring. That's fucking life ever he just run it around pushing cows. That sort of real cowboy does occasionally have to lasso one and it's a big day

So when you are playing cowboys and Indians as a kid, he does lots of cows and stuff. No, I did you underside always got killed. No, I never understood it in their stand. Would cowboys really worth that the cowboys were like always fighting Indians in some sort of a, and you know Hatfield versus the Mccoy sort of a way. I didn't really understand what a cowboy was was young. When I did this my friend anyway, it's kerosene games, the game is played slinger insulin, three x. Yeah locked in I've had a dance is one of the coolest things on the road and playing the this game on it. It's so it's so much better than a gameboy. Nowadays, like it's a game boy, that's also computer. I mean it's great. The graphics on this are amazing, yeah, the I thought I thought the tablets were stupid as when they first came out. I was like this is the song but they're so convenient it's so cool, and it's amazing how much you can store on them. I mean that that hey yeah fuck, what are you doing there, fellow that was very real? Those doesn't matter if it's real that it's even if it's cartoon tits we can get in trouble, is a painting,

yeah. I still think we need a drummer are we? We are also brought to you by death squad DOT Tv does what dot tv is the place where you can get the only place. As far as I know, we can get those funky tee shirts that the brine makes the desk. What t shirts it's a. I don't know how to describe it other than psychedelic cat with a suicide vest on for some. You know it's really hard is trying to answer all the women trying to trying to draw the next one, I'm in the middle of trying to draw the next one, and it's it's hard to try to top yeah now. I feel like either spike. I'm stressed about well these these. If you're, you dig the shirts to these are completely designed and produced by Brian. So, like you not like getting, you know he's not like hiring artists. To do it so you're actually getting his artwork so yeah. I need to I need to shroom or something maybe you need a not shroom, take some coffee and join the Marines anyway. Death squad,

TV go there and find when the upcoming shows are because there's always there's always something going on this wacky world and is also desk. What podcast network on Itunes, where you can listen to the fabulous Kevin Pereira's pointless, which is act more awesome, one of my favorite podcast, and you can only get that off the desk one on I tunes we're also brought to you by on it dot com, that's and- and I t makers of alpha, brain and shroom tack and hemp force. All the we talk about on this podcast goddammit ad nauseam. We also have this new dude who was on for Doctor Robert Lazar. Apparently he some super smart neurosurgeon and he's a big fan of alpha brain. If you are not, you know, there's a lot of people cry and snake oil when it comes to anything that has to do with cognitive function. There like wait, it manage lot. Is this? What kind of nonsense is this because there's a lot of stink well going around? Ladies and gentlemen, remember when people were selling those huh

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part of. What's up about you all right, JANET together, so ins? In that vein, I would be very sensitive to anything that I thought was a placebo. The science behind alpha brain is all rock solid. You can look it up. You can look up all the different ingredients and that history of of human use, these ingredients, including things like memory tests and there's, there's a lot of that. People have learned about the efficacy of neutral picks and it is the the weight of evidence clearly sides on the idea that vitamins and nutrients we know affect human

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Try to follow what you puke, it's the extreme kettlebell cardio workout, it's brutal, it's a brutal dvd. I can't get through the thirty five pounder I know due to play. Do is it's for it's a crazy work out man and we sell that. We saw everything to make you man the up and get your together, and if you use a code name, Rogan you'll save ten percent off any and all supplements, as for MIKE my tee shirt, higher primate dot com. Well, no, I don't does t shirts there they they're selling out faster than I can make him. I'm sorry! I I appreciate that everybody's trying to buy and there's nothing I can do we we put in an order and I've made up much bigger order this time. So thank you for all the people to buy and now it's higher dash, primate dot com and I think most things are out of stock right now, Sonny Fox owned. Look, we got Steve Vogue here. He is an author

about all things freaky and we're going to get down to business, going to start this party soon, as Brian knows how to press that button. Is it there's a issue? The Joe Rogan experience join my day, Joe Rogan Podcast, my name all day, my man. Thank you, sir. Thank you very much man thanks for coming down here Fringe Geology is your book and dude. When mats tags are a publicist requested you or suggested you. I was so all over this 'cause. This is so right in my wheelhouse of shit that I enjoy bullshit and stuff? That might not be bullshit. You know, there's a lot of both going around right. There's a lot of bullshit folks do

don't get me wrong, but it's not all bullshit, there's some weird shit out there in the world, and does that mean how dare I I made a beep off my phone but there's a lot of people that almost immediately discount anything fringe, whether it's psychics or whether it's You know I've done angry people over the last couple of weeks like angry emails and angry tweets, because I suggest, did that something might be going on when you think about someone and the phone calls the phone rings and it's them and the people like, oh you're, attaching that to it. This is a person you think about all day, like SAM Harris said some very logical points, and I agree with him absolutely for the most part, but there are civic, isolated instances where you feel something and then something

prints were you know someone's looking at you, member children did a a controlled study in which he had people list for people who were, you has to present their lives. Somebody who right in fact, call them and then, for I forget how long a period it was a week or two weeks, something like that. They were supposed to any time the phone rang before they answered it. Think of which of these four people it was, and they thought of the correct person more it it a rate higher than chance significantly higher than chance, and I don't have all those the the the numbers in my head right now, but it ended up being a statistically significant fact right. So, instead of being right when it was one of those four people, one out of four times. They were right. Far more often wow, that's interesting and well, there's that, because they knew that this one mother fucker just calls me all the time and he's money in the bank, I'm going to prove some psychics

is one one guy. Just one calls you all day, like I know it's Marty, you pick it up. It's Marty Marty calls you all day. I suppose it could be could be they had they had so many people involved in this study that it would seem to be what it was. A status Klay significant effect in writing. A book, though, do you start looking for factory in studies like that in because you know, of course, you're you're up your purpose initially was kind of did to disprove a lot of the stuff yeah. I have to tell you the chapter on telepathy, in particular scared the hell out of me, because I had gotten so used to hearing the skeptical line. There's no evidence, there's no evidence, there's no evidence that I really expected to find no evidence right now, and When I realized I was going to have to hang my ass out on the line and saying it know, there's actually some evidence uh. It was scary. That was scary. Was it scary because you like, intellectually, would be criticized and you'd be marginally. Sure I thought it be ostracized within the profession of journalism. You know for saying this, but the fact is: there's a really high level debate

going on between really smart people about the proper way to slice and dice these studies in terms of analyzing, the statistics that are generated- and we can't at this point really be sure whether or not side as they put it, is that the whole feel of telepathy. We not side exists, but there's there's a lot of really strong evidence that would suggest it does- and I mentioned this in my book couple of the leading skeptics Chris French Richard Wiseman- have both allowed that by the standards of any ordinary science. Telepathy is proven right. Is this if, if they were just judging kind of a pharmaceutical and looking at the same sorts of numbers that these guys are are generating, they would say: okay, something's happening here right. There's that there's an effect be cause, it's a quote extraordinary claim. We don't understand the physics of this with the mecca it would be that allow for telepathy. We need greater ever and when you say that it's been proven, how so well there again. This is why

French, I'm quoting, but they would say that likes to say something like the ganzfeld test if you're familiar with that know, what is that? Okay against full test and they'll, have there's many different ways to set it up right, but one way is to set up. Is you've got a person who is the it is one of the subtests objects has have ping pong balls put over their eyes right and they have white noise being pumped into their ears, and they were put into a very comfortable chair where they're just sort of kind of suspended, so there's very, very little input into the system at that point, and they're are the receiver and there in a soundproof room, so they're getting no normal input whatsoever, but they're supposed to just kind of go within right, listen to themselves what thoughts occur to them and start reporting back on what it is that they're seeing in their minds I hearing

in their mind, that kind of thing and in another room the sender is actually eaten there in a soundproof room to locked away from from the receiver. They are looking at some sort of stimulus, they're, looking at an image on a computer, perhaps or you know, photos, and on them and they are trying to send that image to the person in the other room who they may or may not know, depending on the study in then there are there four target images and presented, usually in the best studies that an impartial judge will look transcript of what the receiver said right and then they'll have four images in front of them, one of which was the target that the sender was actually trying to mentally send to the receiver, and you would expect

that, if the person with you know the ping pong balls over their eyes got absolutely nothing, then the judge would select the correct image one out of four times, but in did you do enough trials and the men analysis on these when they crunch all the numbers from all the studies together shows more like a thirty two percent effect, instead of being right, one out of four times there right thirty, two percent of the time and this. Why is been in French would allow that these studies are general well controlled enough that if this was an ordinary claim that was being presented, this is this is fine and we would accept. This is evidence that something's up here some kind of information transfer. The problem is because we don't understand the physics of how this would work. They say we need greater evidence this and they keep asking for greater and greater levels of scientific controls to be put on the studies and they keep of finding ways to kind of reject the result I have

never been sceptical of the potential for psychic phenomenon, but I've been very skeptic for about almost every story that I've ever heard. Unfortunately, I've met a lot of fakers have been a lot of faith, psychics, I met a lot of Cray the girls. I want to tell you there like clear voice. You know people who are channelers and just there's so many looney tunes that are connected to it, but a thirty two percent increase. Sounds to me- like probably what's real- it's that I think that human So what do you think that would be about average if you were to do the same study with without having somebody trying to you know just the place yeah, but it's a twenty five percent without it twenty five percent to thirty two percent. Does the ideas as small leap? Seven? Yes, whatever it the percent chance seven percent chance, but interested in that seven percent, I mean if it's really statistically real if the study hasn't been fucked with

the idea is that it's just a little bit is just a little bit. The idea is that there's this week signal that were not normally picking up on especially look at the way we live now, where we're constantly constantly being bombarded by information. Input and just stimulus, but when you shut all that out- and close your eyes and you don't have any sound that distracts you what's there are you receiving any kind of accurate information and I'm I found the research really Chan rising- and I also like I said I found it scary, because I thought well Here- I am now I'm gonna write that you know what, when they tell you, there's no evidence, that's kind of bullshit right, there's, there's in fact there there is some evidence and the question is whether or not it's risen to the level yet where we have to accept it right, yeah it it's a fascinating possibility that I think, is inevitable. I think it's in ever will either technologically or it's inevitable, do too Do our own bodies advance and and changing and mutation, because I feel like if you look at

lower primates, and you know they have a very rudimentary language. They think that chimps repeat certain sounds and they meet might mean certain things it's nowhere near what we can do and I've got assume that this isn't the end, this Isn't the last version of the ape you know if apes are going to continue to be success, This model is not going to stick around forever and you could look at this one of two ways: one way maybe evolving, the ability yeah right, way. Maybe we're losing it right. So, back in the day when we were you before this, being stared at in some really good research on this again when the skeptics. I mention Richard Weisman did A did a study with a woman in Maryland slits where they collaborated, and they did three separate studies trying to figure out whether or not somebody could sense that someone is staring at the back of her head yeah and that relies controls on it. Weissman was part of a you know the experiment two out of the three times they did it. They they got it again, statistically significant fact where people were right of you know far more often than chance with

suggested and if you think of it in evolutionary sense, which I do in the book right, is that back in the day, we were being hunted all the time right. When we didn't have the kinds of fortifications we have now against the angry pack of walls that are out there and- and we would have needed to have this ability to know that we're being stared at you know we would, it would have helped us survive as a species. Yeah yeah makes sense, especially when you consider the got to be like some pretty intense focus when a predator locks on you, you know, and that, if there is some sort of a psychic bond out, between entities like the feeling this mother voters about that's what it's like for, can kick in right, yeah, one! Never does you know what if they can feel it. You know, I think, that there's. Probably a lot of sense is that we lossed in uh

separation from the the natural world to hear intuitive senses, the army has done some research on and and intuition really and and their most into it. Intuitive people are and it's the cut. These people are the ones that they'll sort of look at two am notice when there is hidden explosive device on run aground Iraq and they found that to two groups in particular. I think there's a third but there's two. What I always remember that and that are really good at this hunters and people from the inner city And so so barbie and milk people are fucking useless. Apparently, so do it. I knew that was the problem. They think, if you got it from the point of view of the person in the inner city, they've got to be aware. Your turn. The environment and the potential for danger and they've got to get used to

honoring that impulse that something is a little off here. I need to respect that in order to stay alive, yeah, and so the people who are best at finding these hidden explosive devices just can tell it something just feels off in this area and then they start focusing in on what really Well, I didn't know, first of all that the army actually used intuitive people to try to find bombs, keep keeping my This is not about psychic ability right at least they're, not talking in that context, what the army has the remote viewing research all that stuff in the past, yeah, you know this is this is a very straightforward intuition, you somebody who can just very, very aware of their surroundings very aware, of what's around them and alert to something that just seems wrong in the environment. That's not necessarily psychic at all hi, but it's real any in it.

But it harkens back to that a little bit that idea. Companies psychic, though I mean there, are exactly the you can just size, have some spidey sense to hello. Well, I think that they're, I think, they're telling a lie. You know I think they're telling the line there right up on that line where spidey sense and talk of spidey senses is right where we should be, but the language they're using is is clearly very free hardcore have police. This is something that I've always wanted to ask. Someone like you have poor. He's really use psychics to find victims or any of that stuff is in the midst of ever really panned out. I've actually done a lot of police reporting in my past as well. As you know this book I mean it's kind of generally about read about cops crime, courts, politics. That kind of thing has been a lot of time with cops and there's one homicide detective. I know who absolutely it just. It is actually religious guy which is really interesting. He

hates psychics they have. They have led him on so many or try to lead him on so many wild goose chases they screw with him. When he's in the middle of a tough homicide, investigation is getting phone calls times when it is higher up will be. Maybe you gotta listen? Maybe you gotta hear this out. You know he cannot stand them, but I recent men- and I really I've- got to follow up with this guy. I haven't yet, but I met a retired homicide. Detective who told me he wanted to talk to me because he's worked with a psychic who gave him good actionable information on multiple occasions really and I haven't had a chance to sit down with him. Betty was bone in there. I is boner trying to promote her business. I know how that works. Who is Dylan Man, old guy, I'm not sure, he's broken and we've got to do what he's gotta. Do you know chicks, gotta, psychic business? keep the lights on this day in age. I've always wanted to know

A lot of people talk about it, but everybody that I've heard talk about it hasn't researched it. You know it hasn't. It's not everybody to say you know they viewed psychics to find bodies. Have they have there? Really? I don't know if they have. You know what, though, there's a couple of cases that are still sort of tantalizing out there. That would maybe something happened. Maybe they didn't get actual information, but for the most part, if you can watch the psychic investigators what's really sort of funny about it. Is that even when they're saying you know that that this information was so valuable, usually if you're really paying attention, it's not actually information that broke the case. It's it's information that after the fact, seem to fit, and so I'm still you know still I'm still skeptical of and everything, but I'm not I'm skeptical of this like x, helping detectives but yeah, I'm really open to it because again, if this, if there is a sort of we signal out there. You know that occasionally pick up on well, then, maybe sometimes it provides actionable information Do you, member the psychic friends network? it was a D Dionne Warwick.

Then Dionne Warwick are caught would weed at the airport as what made her psychic yeah, that's what was making looks like it wasn't his asshole. She was working with when I think we need some part you get a little more psychic make that a quote go ahead. I reset to discredit Maine. Take it in context, though I think you you become super sensitive and in that that, like you become very aware of people are creepy where people are angry very well of weird tension. You know makes like really sensitive makes you really aware of bad acting too it's I have to get high and watch some bad, acting like well you're fucking faking it and that it's sort of like what. What acting really is is the the best actors lock into a role so deeply that they almost must believe in themselves because they're convincing you, even though you know it's Daniel Day Lewis, you know you, you know and he's not really an irish boxer when you believe it because he is tricked you he's he's bypass list all of your psychic energy, but

high and you want someone faking the funk just going through the you like. What do you do it up there? Thank you see them acting it's this rule, it's disgusting and be interesting to watch early and later Deniro and that contact yeah you're, so right is there ever a guy was fallen so far from grains. It's so sad meet the fall, there's really two fuck U2. Whatever the number two was little fuck, we fucked you again. Those little fuckers are back. I mean I'm not even saying that's a bad movie, but it's just like. That's Robert Motherfucking Dinero and he's doing some new movie now with Helen, although they get in a fight with each other. Alan Arkin. Rather, just like he was in that that movie we play like a wizard and shit yeah. This was oh, my god, what was the movie with Robert Deniro played like a wizard? It was like really bad, like the Hobbit Type movie, looks so stupid. I was like Robert,

What is going on, I guess after awhile you like fuck it. I did my time I provided Goodfellas. I did my raging bulls, I'm just from here on. I shouldn't have some fun yeah think about what he did for Cape Papa John's. He was fucking incredible Don wait for raging bull, I mean you know too much sacrifice. Taxi driver he's just a fucking tremendous actor. Just in his prime in his youth, he was is unstoppable. The deer hunter mean my god that was a fucking movie. He did some incredible incredible shit, but. The stuff is doing now: poor Robert Poor, poor, Robert Hip or sonofabitch sad sad to see men, it's and Series yeah feeling really sad right now, forgetting about is a low job. That is not is not nearly as happy as he was doing. The raging bull day's news just creating something magnificent. You know, I think, if you got into a daisy,

Robert De Niro got tip with Jay Z, Jesus Christ. How is that possible? He was apparently trying to phone Jay Z to talk about some sort of entertainment event that was going on in Jay, Z, didn't call him back and Soda Niro in public kind of dressed him down for it yeah. I thought that's a little you know. I wonder if that was a j he's kind of busy too yeah Bobby Deniro calls you you call him back well. How about? Maybe didn't really knows you. You know if, if it's Bob Bobbi dinner or what have you got the whole phone number or something yeah I checked all live jz went to see the wizard moving was like Bobby Dinero, which two two inside he he only twenty bucks I would have just hanging out with Robert De Niro was just uncomfortable forests. Yes, an ochre like if you like, you just wanted to hang out all the time I kind of got robbed and I was coming up yeah we used to again and what, if he's like, studying you yeah, you know like to You want to drink wine with you and character actor studying you thinking. You

play you in a movie rubbing your and Bobby Nero as Brian Red Red, then in the future that would be in. Robert Dinero as red band in the future. It's you in like fifty years and you still you would probably do that role. Yeah yeah use still partying it up still talking like you're twelve, but now it's creepy 'cause you're, like almost sixty and everybody, said what the fuck is going to grow up. Nope, stop growing if it's possible to do ES will Brianne in his sixties is a good idea for a movie. It is no it's not somebody don't make that. So what what subject did you get started with? What

lead you to just pursue this a story line in this book or the ideal one in this book just chasing down all things fringe. There were a couple of things that that motivated me, one of them was a family goes story. I grew up with as a kid where, supposedly our house, these are my red bag, by the way notice you noticing this, I'm an avid, listen to show, and I know he might say totally random shit. That will totally distract me. And if you guys want to be able to take a note on where I was a good move, guitar center paper. We should have here for you, you fucking. We should have that against captain flow wrecker. So

I grew up with a ghost story, a ghost that was busy in my house. The stuff happened when I was five or six years old, so I very fragmented memories of it, but it was a eight. It's really sort of starts with the cliche. That was the thing that went bump in the night, only a pump that funded boomed. It happened only at night. I would go on for tens of minutes at a time it sounded like it was coming from somewhere upstairs to my parents in the First floor thought it was on the roof of the house. My brother and I on one side of the house, thought it was on the roof of our heads. My sisters in their room, who did not share in adjoining law with us thought it was on the roof and or in their high and the walls. An first that's what it was. It was this noise, but it was so loud. It would wake everybody up and it would go on for awhile and my parents wanted for prosaic explanations didn't fit with like a water hammer or anything with the plumbing didn't fit with the house set,

Think of how long it went on and you have a attic or was it just a roof? No attic an my sister started, reporting. Stranger things: it's really movie shit right. They started reporting that their bed frames would shake in the middle of the night and wake them up a claim that they saw a woman walk right through the room. Literally a ghost, my parents- and I find this really important. My parents set that aside and discounted it for a couple of reasons. It was coming from kids and who would want to believe that that's true I mean, I think, one of the things the skeptics always do is say. You know it's sort of wishful thinking in superstition that people here in noise and they leapt to ghost, but my family didn't, and so they spent nine months or a year trying to recreate the noise in various ways trying to figure out what it was and when my sisters would tell these crazy stories, they're, just kind of like number one. They didn't want to believe it. Who wants to believe your stutter sorting, terrorized at night,

right right thing, going on in the room, but finally- and I was raised Catholic and we had a falling out of the church, yet that was still coming, but my dad went to the the priest, any told what was going on, because he'd run out of other answers. The priest said, you know, usually in cases like this, which I always find that language interesting as well, because it implies he does this on a fairly regular basis Usually in cases like this, I come over. I bless the house, so he came over and I I remember this vividly because to have Father Crowley come into the come in the the the house with the vestments on and swinging like the incense around and praying in Latin, was intense right as a kid and as I was like six, he was. He was God himself. You know standing up on at Pope it and he comes in our house- he's swinging incense around and he

gives any system my dad so long, Jerry, I'm sure everything will be fine, but that night, actually things got worse booming went on longer and louder than ever before and for the first time it seemed to locate in a specific spot. So, instead of coming from this sort of amorphous areas somewhere up on the roof, it hits at the top of the stairs the landing and then it came downstairs like one step at a time my father said it sounded like a kid throwing a tantrum an when it hit the bottom floor. They could feel the floor shake under their feet. My parents and we never heard again, and so I grow up with this story and I think of it, as you know, for a long time all the way through adolescence, it was just sort of Ingham. I don't know man, article IV can faith like I didn't even question it. It just was, but you get into college, then you start meeting other people and you start getting familiar with critical thinking. You're like that was the

but you know what the hell was that that's not how old are you in? This is going about six hundred, so whatever memories I have it or very fragmentary, but I gotta tell you what I asked my parents about it the book and I actually interviewed them. I knew someday. I was going to write about this right. One of the many years before I really set on this is the book I'm going to write and I actually sat him down and I recorded it, and I will never forget when they were describing that last night, when it came down the stairs they turned white, they held hands across the table. They were still frightened just by the memory of it. So for them, whatever it was, was tremendously real, and I wanted to explore that and see what could there have been anything strange there? Could they have possibly somehow and in my brothers and sisters who can be all of us? Somehow I imagined all this, and so that was part of my inspiration for the book. What is your conclusion on that? Do you look?

back, I mean I don't remember anything that happened when I was six that I can tell you reliably what really happened. I have to view messages, sure sure that's true of generally of people I mean It's very hard to trust childhood memories. I'm not sure I should trust my own memories of an event. That's another thing that sort of kind of disassociate Smee from it. Yeah. How old are you now forty three yeah? When you look back at six, I mean: how much do you really? How much do you remember? If six, I actually have a creepy amount of memories from my child yeah, but I have legit. Well, that's the question is too, but I don't know how legit Lee jaded great psychologist, child psychologist, did a lot of studies on this and one of the things he put in his own life. He he had this very vivid memory of being kidnapped because he was told he was kidnapped and then years later, the person who is supposedly the Whitney

the kidnapping admitted that they made the story up, and so he had this really shocking vivid memory through his whole life. I forget what point it was revealed to him and it wasn't true. So that's how much we can be deceived by these things and You ask the conclusion: I came to you and I think it's very healthy conclusion. The conclusion I came to I don't know what the fuck happened right and there is still mystery there. None of the normal prosaic explanations work for me right, it was not a water hammer It was not. No, it's not a rat making a noise that big it's not a a plumbing problem. You know it was not the house settling. Yeah, it was, do you were Rippeon really loud really loud, like really loud, and slamming a door or something yeah. It's loud as like a sledgehammer get and get and its loudest

and so you go outside and there's no one on the roof. Funny story there, my parents 'cause, I was so I was so young- and I remember this this one. I know this working memory is true. I remember them taking the outside. At night 'cause we were scared to show me show me that there were raccoons jumping on the roof 'cause. It was night time, and this is the story that gave their little kid. Oh honey. It's just raccoons, jumping come down on the roof, and I was young enough that I was like. Ok, raccoon sometimes jump up, on the roof? Do, though I mean if they spend their fucking, girls will fight back thanks to going on gangster raccoons yeah yeah on your roof, not enough of them. It was that so many nights yeah and too many nights man I mean 10s of minutes at a time. Raccoons are just bouncing up and down. Imagine if your roof was like the octagon for the ultimate fighting championship, while your sleep that would be annoying Duke it out in the middle, then you open the door and they just get ghost. There's climb up trees and hide the crafty those.

I would have set up cameras everywhere. I added that. Should I stay too long time ago, though, yeah, you everything's in nineteen. Seventy five for me in nineteen. Eighty five we were walking around with these hd cameras with night vision. I get courtroom sketch artist and just put him on every corner of the house. Courtroom sketch. The dumbest thing ever that they still have to use someone to sketch what's happening. You can't take a picture, it's the beauty of it. What does that mean? It's like we're not supposed to be able to see inside the sacred courtroom where the decisions are being rendered, so instead here's an artist depiction of the the Can you show me drawings, for you know you can show it to me, or you is: is that the real guy at a table? That's what he looks like that's the drawing represents what he looks like show me a fucking picture stupid. What kind of game are we playing? The flash would be distracting. Is that what it is? How about no flashes? It is pretty easy to just do know flashes. You know, let's chat

like is even weirder someones fucking staring at you and drawing you. That's even weirder man imagine you know you're talking about your your experience in trying to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but and some fucking, weirdos, eyeballing, you and drawing your face. That's going to be a little mind. Fuck. It would be probably effects your decision making skills when you're in court. Actually, it's fucking true. If the cameras are easier to handle that if somebody was sitting here, some asshole will use an outdated technology, could begin here in the horse could be taking license. With my image to you got there on a horse. All his books are written in script. We have courtroom sketch room artist, for that showed I do they have they draw during the whole life broadcast. The secret show thing. That's hilarious like here is ARI. I think That's a good idea, sell it in the artist gets all the money not

we better do news in court, see we found a new use for those people yeah not to do that anymore. No. This too, though, so as the years went on- and I would share that story at by stop sharing it right, because I was trying to run into more more people who were totally adamantly opposed, not not only opposed the idea of ghosts, I'm suspicious about the idea of coast right. They were adamantly opposed the idea that there was even a mystery there, and so that's kind of what I hold out for in the book that sometimes we just need to be able to admit. I just say that I don't know what happened. People want to rush to some kind of conclusion whether they have enough evidence or day or not, and I mean the people over the years. He would insist it had to be a water hammer, even though it doesn't fit the you know the

this story at all. What is the water hammer? That's when the waters are well done done done done done done the guys that crazy noise and angst that when I used to live in an apartment building, we heard that a lot yeah, seven flow of water stops and you get that sound because the energy the water build up is converted to boosting energy. It's got to go somewhere, that's what it is! Yeah, okay and it doesn't. It doesn't last that long it doesn't make that kind of noise and it sounds like it doesn't sound like it's coming from you or your roof for last tens of minutes, and it's certainly never locates on the steps. But this is all when you were six yeah, so so in the end you kind of have to trust or not the question you're left with do. I trust my mother and Father's account my sisters account my brothers account and you know on someone on someone like do, but can I really by any idea that there goes, I mean so one of the things I explore tonight? I found this really interesting. I mean there are people out there working with sort of other technologies to determine? If maybe there isn't

in electromagnetic energy, in the air, in certain areas than it fucks with you April lower. When you have drilling, where was that it was in Pittsburgh. Maybe an not a lot of fault lines I think there is a case that one Ohio that they just found out that we're making the earthquake happens some what happens if an a guy working with infra sound again VIC Tandy did research and infrasound it's a level of sound beneath even the range of human hearing, but it actually has an effect. It can create a sense of pressure and uneasiness in your chest. It actually can even impact sort of the eyeball, the actual vibration in the air, and cause you to see cloudy shapes when there aren't any. I don't think any of those necessarily explain. What whatever happened in my house either, but what I like about it is it. At least hear somebody's thinking creatively and not thinking so poorly of their fellow human that they just yeah. You heard a creaking flu

Where did you jump to a goes because you're that stupid and that's a superstitious in these sorts of explanations, I think grant people the proper? Did you need to be that that that that the reporting things at least someone accurately right something we The unusual was happening. It's sometime, it's a very unfair, fortunate reality that we live in that. I can't trust anybody to tell like what really happened. So when you a legitimate event the legitimate event occurs. It's immediately dismissed if you really looked at how many strange things exist both in the natural world and in the just just the world of space, just the world of

matter in Super novas and all those things are way, crazier than ghosts. Okay, a ghosting should compared to the sun, the in a man the idea that we're living in a multi verse that yeah infinite number of us having this conversation right now and do that life exists at all the you can see with eyeballs. You know that is just as freaky as something that you used to live, but its essence in some form stays for some reason. I think the id that this dimension that we live in is Cilic Super Concrete and you know just because you can hit the fucking phone. Push it into a street and watch a car slam into it that when you're dealing with a real solid objects- and that's all there is here- I don't necessarily buy that. I I don't- I don't believe in most of what I hear in terms of psychic Mixon psyche. Greetings in ghost stores, I think most of it's bullshit, but I think it's very possible that something remains

view you and that you're not just skin tissue and bone tissue and blood and more than me yeah. There might be something going on and that's something might leave your body and exist in some other state in almost an inaccessible environment. That's that's parallels and that's not outside the realm of possibility. It sounds so woo woo, but it's not it's not is life itself, the whole idea that your your body is just this big chemical reaction in electromagnetic impulses and all that, crazy neuroscientists can't answer the basic question of how consciousness is produced. Right, so how we get from the physical stuff of the brain to non physical subjective experience is a complete and total mystery and it is the thing that really defines our lives, our internal experience in the world, and there is no explanation for it like how Scientists like get to what's what part of the brain does

like this guy got an injury here, so that remove this part of the brain that removes his ability to do this he's gotten in we hear so well now we know that this inhibits walking- and this is where you know your eyesight is dealt with, but what they can't figure out is where's the thinking person with morals and ethics and love? Where is he in there is? He a crackling. Is he just the energy that makes all those cells fire where she? Where is the girl? Can you know You can enjoy the things that she enjoys and enjoy the food that she enjoys where, where is all that and then something else to consider to Joe is that ok, so we get these damage to our brain and will lose certain faculties. Sometimes we only lose them for a certain time because of neuroplasticity these things back online and where an or other parts of the brain simply pick up those functions, and this is easier to do when you're younger than when you're older. But the thing that fasten

to me, are people who will lose their memory for a certain time and in those memories, begin to come back and this again a relatively common thing, how that happened. Where were the memories stored? Where do they go when they were gone? It's a very good question yeah and it's one that happens when people get concussions. There's concussions cause a great deal short term memory loss. How the actually looked at this a little bit in the book I mean doctors will assess how severe person's entry was by coming for the degree of memory loss like asking them. What's the last thing you remember before the injury, with the first thing you remember, after the injury and the longer the blank period, the more hurt you are an alleged near death experiences in the book, and that's so that's one of things that you me in there, because what what's weird about these guys is that in girls is they oftentimes come back with a full of totally flowing memory of event that should have knocked there,

Marie producing capabilities off line for a certain amount of time and and yet somehow didn't seem to, and I'm I'm okay with sing lately with a near death experience, I kept a lot of flack really from both sides, because believers will contact even say they're upset that I won't come out and say that you know the near death experience. Smoking gun evidence that there's an afterlife. You know, I don't think it is smoking gun evidence. Is that there's an afterlife, but I also think it's yet been explained. And and again we wind up back in this place where everybody wants to act like they know everything every wants to push everything to a conclusion and the most rational thing to say is we we don't fully understand that experience. Yet you know the near death experience. It has to be related to what you're your own brain can produce. As far psychedelic chemicals. It has to be your own brain produces the most potent psychedelic drug known to man, and why I wouldn't it produce that shit if you were going to die if you're in high I stress periods, if you're freaking. If this is the end, your body thinks this is it. Going to die, and then it comes back

You know you you very likely could have come back from a psychedelic trip as well. Let me tell you, I'm just gonna cut straight to the chase. The best evidence that that the Indy has to provide this is the best Janice Minor, Holding researcher did a study where she went through all medical literature and all the research that's been done in India. So far, She tabulated veridical perceptions, so accurate and true perceptions that people got well quote out of body and what she came up with is that out of thirty eight cases in the middle literature where people were able to recount what was going on in the room when they were flat line exceed the more above the table that stuff when they were in this sort of severe physical distress. Thirty five in the more accurate in every detail, they reported two of them had minor errors, the sort of errors I'd have you know if I was trying to scramble what I had for breakfast today, you I mean I might miss something and then one person was just totally off the freaking reservation right, one person with

just totally wrong about everything, but thirty. This was funny about his or her, but you know what I mean. I haven't read all the details, what they said, but it was, I mean they were just off on everything and no idea what machines were used at all the only people in the room or something like that and we're incredibly accurate. Thirty, five of them were Acura, out of how many thirty eight in their entirety. Now the skeptical wrist wants to this is that the Reese teachers themselves would have suppressed. Information that wasn't accurate because they were so blown away by what they were hearing. That they went ahead and only recorded sort of positive responses, because the negative ones weren't, making any impact with them, weren't landing with them The other thing that proposes that, well, maybe that's a pretty serious accusation. What why would they say that they have the questions and is all everything's been recorded, of course

we have to go back to every last study to figure out what you know: one research, materials and every case the Mets just want one objection. They lani other objection lodges that well maybe they had some sort of anesthesia awareness right, the per if the press was Anastasia. Sometimes you still aware of what's going on in the real. So the lab that one in there too or they will say that they call it a profusion of blood to the brain. Maybe they were getting cardiac massage it does supply a certain amount of blood in your brain. So maybe some or the brain, was still operating in able to retain a certain amount of information, but it just it's. These are possibilities. These are ideas that maybe explain it, but thirty, five out of thirty eight, it's remarkable and it's enough to push it in an area where you have to say you know. Maybe

something is going on here I mean: do you ever feel in a psychedelic experience that you get accurate information, not just stuff your mind is coming up with, but some sort of signal are contact with something that's quote Do you believe that whether or not it's happening is the big debate right? You know, there's people that absolutely believe it there in contact with entities and this other people that leave that you're just accessing the imagination and the mind is interfacing with distortion it's visual abilities in massive foreman. Your pudding context to that and trying to make make like rational understanding of it. One of my favourites using the book. I when I was researching death experience. I look pretty deeply in the story. Elizabeth Kuebler Ross, who wrote the book on death and dying, which kind of galvanized the whole hospice movement and made end of life care in this country, and

around the world a lot more humane and she is one of the first people ever to encounter the near death experience and she did it before. That phrase was even coined. I mean it was Raymond Mooney wrote book in one thousand nine hundred and seventy five she in the 60s was running across page in the hospital ward. She was a psychologist who are telling the same. Stories, I find really is a couple layers to this when I get to you, but it's really fascinating. Is she wanted to reject the stuff at first completely, research partner, that reference Walamo Amara? Who is really terrific, dude? I loved interviewing this guy he's still around he was a reverend and he had been appointed to sort of go along in the hospital wards with her. What doing is very controversial. Nobody talked to the terminally ill. At that point they were sort of shunted off to the side, and so the fact that she was doing this with

was really angering a lot of hospital staffs. The administration put this Revan with her as a way of saying it would kind of giving her their blessing as a way of saying you she's it she's, not her alone, right, there's There's somebody with her- and I would imagine tomorrow, is pretty formidable. So nobody we would for from tomorrow because I I met the guy, he's awesome, but anyway one of the early stories they encountered before they started even researching this experience, because they'd hear these stories kind of blow them off 'cause. They don't know what to do with them. Finally, he's out near the elevators one day a woman goes in. Cardiac arrest. He She was resuscitated right right there in the hall. They went to work on or they resuscitated her, he goes to see her later and she starts describing a scene of what happened exactly, and she even describes that she was able in this stuff sounds ridiculous right, but she was able to float at one point behind a resident who

is taking notes because one of the things they did with you know if you got any experience doctor on the scene like that and as an emergency thing going on, is they generally some to just take notes on what's going on, it's a way of giving them something to do and keeping them out of the way the people who really know what needs done right now. And she was able to describe what he had previously doodled on. The note had that he was now taking notes on her resuscitation on now. Revenue Mara completely rejects this right. Here is this new. Things I'm going to prove you wrong, because this doesn't fit his dog? Well, this is what's supposed to happen when somebody dies right. So he goes. He signs the med student and he looks at the page, tools, you know the page of notes and it has some noodles on it and the little's match with what she described. He asked the if you never interface with this patient, we hadn't asked the patient if they run in France with student, she hadn't we, you know what we're left with

now is. We can say that Reverend Wallow Amara is lying and I will never fucking say that because he wasn't right or we have a genuine mystery here and that's where I land there's a genuine mystery here. So where it can, and one read about this is there are obviously in my book. This is completely in your book. It was reported anywhere else. I'm you know, intriguingly Kuebler Ross herself. Wrote about it. Not I don't think it is retail. Is I ended up doing it through Amara? You know because she had so what things. Is they have this that happened there really shaken by it and but they also are noticing that the patients who reporting these experiences are changing,

They are no longer afraid to die. I mean you've got to imagine the anxiety that you would confront a terminal diagnosis with these people start losing that anxiety and start wanting to talk to her about. You know what I want to clean up my relationships before I go. They start talking out living hard in the time they have left, rather than trembling at the fact that they're going to pass on it's a huge, dramatic effect and that's when they decided to start taking notes like this whole idea that the near death experiences merely wishful thinking is bullshit. You know, and it's at least bullshit in in her experience in a Mars experience of it. They rejected it till they really couldn't rejected anymore, because Here they are researching what happens when you're terminally ill and one of the things that was coming up in dozens of cases. People who were losing their fear. Because of this event, and that's how I ended up just to find doing any research on it at all. So when she wrote her book, she had a lot of different stories to tell. I don't think she hit that story as hard as she should have well

the near death experience, be created, or being facilitated. Maybe is a better word by by a psychedelic experience by the brain. Producing chemicals. Is it's it doesn't mean that there isn't something still going on. It might mean that that's a chemical gateway to whatever is going on, and that's how the brain can rely This is this stuff and it interfaces with whatever the fuck it does. When you have these trips, there's a search. Are you familiar with some? I remember their last with a Carhartt Harris? No, he did studying on mushrooms the active ingredient in mushrooms with psilocybe, and he he found that it seemed to suppress brain activity. The brain actually seemed less active, particularly parts of the brain responsible for making connect, relaying information from one spot to another. What he thought was really

sing about that, and I would tend to agree with him, is you would think at moments of heightened experience and heightened perception that we would see in excitement in the brain right. Greater activity was seen diminished activity less activity. It calls hold me back anyway to the idea that a lot of what the brain does is filter our experience. A lot of our processing is unconscious in information. We are picking up from the environment all the time that doesn't rise into our awareness or brains, making the decision for us as to whether or not we need to be worried about that. Little noise behind us for the king chairs, making or whatever you know. We don't even register it necessarily consciously, and so the question becomes when you take this Michael, which I may or may not be interested in taking myself. If you might be interested, I mean I think I I think I might be moving you take this chemical. Are you actually stopping the brain from Phil,

so much information? Are you actually accessing more of the raw data? That's out there yeah! That's a that's an interesting question. The the the thing about. The mushroom experience is that, the mushroom experience actually mirrors Norman, Hugh Normal Human near New York Street part of what makes up a mushroom is and and dimethyl tryptamine among the same stuff, the bring produces or your lungs in your liver. They know that he body produces, and it's been thought that the pie, Neil Gland lot of people get very angry. If you're not very specific about this, because the this is just anecdotal evidence that the pie, Neil Gland, which is the third eye of eastern, miss this an produces this whatever produces it. Whatever they find one day, ultimately, they believe it's the pineal gland, but you gotta to cut people's brains open within. Like a certain

the time whether dead and then extract it to see if it's yeah I would have. I not know this as intense. I think the fight they're trying to find better ways to to measure, but the the most important thing is it's on questionably produced in the body, so the body is unquestionably producing this. Incredibly potent human neurotransmitter, which is part of the ingredients of mushrooms, like Psilocybin mushrooms, something like four fox or Fox, a n n dimethyltryptamine, and I know I fucked up the first part with the way say it, but it's nn dimethyltryptamine with something tagged on, and my point is that people that take mushrooms have the exact same sort of fee feeling when it comes to without the near death sort of tation to it that they will die, but they have the feeling like they have to clean up relationships. They have the feel

if you want to live like right now with joy and happiness. It's a very religious experience for a lot of people and a lot of scholars actually believe it's the origin of religious experience, and you know, but the death anxiety research going on there right now, too right, yeah yeah, I do yeah fantastic. I mean this stuff. If I do a fringe ology to which I intend to I, I intend look pretty deeply into deeply like is and you're going to take him yeah you're going to have to yeah, I don't look. I do immersion journalism, I mean I debated like am going to be quiet or not, but like I do immersion journalism, that's what I do I can get into what I'm reporting on as much as I can. I think so I can go. Experiences are very very helpful. They can certainly send you off a path into the nutty land, but I think they're very helpful and they're, probably part of what made us humans in the first place mean every single religion has some sort of substance that they you know they talk about.

It's monah, whether it's you know so there's like so many of them throughout which are clear. Some sort of psychedelic entheogen fields. They would take in ritual foreman and help them. Maybe that might have aided evolution in somewhere. That's yeah that is Mckenna's. Stoned ape theory is a fascinating, fascinating idea, and it's now it's really one of those who the fuck knows things stuff to go back and try to figure out why The hell happened that turned us from you know some sort of monkey type creature in a pool of a lower a two. However, it became a human being. I just think I think in general. We need to be willing to say who the knows more well, if you do mushrooms should say who the fuck knows all day 'cause, if you do it, you just going to go, I did how could I have known at that there? How did you know and that DMT is Mushrooms times a million plus aliens. So it's impossible to even wrap a word around it and all

Those things can change you just like a religious experience can change you. They can also freaking the fuck out and make you think you're haunted hi like afterward, you could blow you could lose. You could blow a fuse, it's possible for a lot of people just do too much. It's all about the situation. To put yourself in will do find. Do you find it I mean I would take it with so much excitement at this point like just so much like you but let's do it but you're, not crazy or successful author? You seem like a nice guy. If you're a naughty person ingest that shit, you're barely hanging on to sanity. I wouldn't I wouldn't recommend it What was the what what was the most shocking find for you in the writing this book in this? What what's the the thing that set you back and really made you go wow I might have started with the telepathy, but the other thing was meeting Ricky Sorrels in Steubenville Texas. He was a one

when witnesses is to what became known in UFO circles, is Stephenville lights January. Eighth, I think two thousand eight citing in a swirls. So on January, eighth, dozens of people- I like to say they had the misfortune of looking up because they face a lot of heat after the report what they saw, but it was some kind of and is a series of lights in the sky that moved in such with such unity that seem to be one craft. We've been very, very big at what point it was actually trailed by a sixteens that couldn't catch up to it, and these are the sorts of reports you're getting out as Steven build Time and Ricky came forward to the newspaper and said that he had seen something many weeks before. I think it was shortly after Thanksgiving and it was a solo daytime citing and

it was the wildest story of all the stories. Anyone ever told me right in English. The book this is probably the wildest and part had to do with the with Rick himself. He didn't want to tell me the store I had to go through an intermediary who talked him into ultimately speaking to me. As far as I'm aware, he is not done another interview since and we're now looking at three one slash two years since I spoke to him, he eve? May not a dime on this? You know if anything, he just faced a lot of ridicule locally and Stephen felt first, except of course, for the people had seen it or had a loved one see in an so he has the sighting he's out hunting, and this is one of the things that rate you know. People used to sort of subtly undermine him, I in the same way that Monica Lewinsky was sort of framed for all of America by the fact that the dress that ended with the semen stain came from the gap. Now we know where she shops, like she's, like low rent, low girl, all right, that's how people did her in

with Ricky one of things. People like to report to mean him is that we call him a deer hunter right, he's a fa. Batteries. Machinist he's had his job for fifteen twenty years. He's means a lot more than the deer hunter, but he was out hunting deer when this happened. Why is it? Why did they think that that somehow another? I think it located him as a hick. You know I mean he's in Stephenville TX, which is literally a cow town. You were talking before about the cowboy with kerosene games, these are cow it is. These are people who are raising cattle right and the cliche of of UFO sightings. Is that it's it's quoted six. You see them right now, one of cliches, but anyway, I'm Ricky's out deer hunting.

And he tripped over a branch and doesn't fall down, but he has closer to steady himself and he glances up and he notices overhead now something he ended up saying it was three hundred feet over his head. He gauge this by the fact that there's a water tower in the community that is three hundred feet high and it seemed about the same height. He cannot see an edge to whatever it is that's floating above him and it's not making any sound, but it is hanging over the trees and in it there, this series of sort of inverted cones, which he intuitively suspected, must be part of, like the propulsion propulsion system. So the narrow part is up further into the craft in that it widens. Is it telescopes down right, and so these these series, converted cones and his first instinct and- and I think people use this to sort of the position to his first instinct- was to put his got on it,

pretty sight on it right just instinct with part of that I'll get you know, he's points the gun at it and then quickly within a second or two realizes. You know the I'm not gonna shoot at this thing, whatever it is, I'm not gonna shoot at it, and so he lowered his gun and in in arm telling me about this that he just told himself calm down. Remember as much of this is, you can just look at it. Take it in and then boom, and I forget exactly how long he was looking at it for a little while it just shot off. It went so fast, he said. There's no word for this kind of speed. There's no word that can describe this kind of speed. It went from being black my entire field of vision, because it was so big to just shooting up into the air like like a lightning flash and what was so convincing to you about his story? Well, here's what was give he was the king of in part, I'm used to sitting across from people and people in having me

tell me all kinds of information and I have to to look at various tales and just sort of see how I feel about them right and then the truth Ricky just seemed utterly completely truthful. History, nothing from this that the point you know, obviously the skeptics point of view. The cynics can come and go what if he was crazy. What, if he's a good liar, he basing your belief off. This is the most shocking thing, an anecdotal story from a good liar. Well, I, like I said I was started to slip if he actually, because I can look at that resigned myself and judge it. But, but you know he Freaked you out enough. He freaked me out in this sense, because here's the thing Joe to me he's demonstrably not crazy he's fully functional. He still got the same. Job he's still got same friends. Have you drunk still does drinking with them? I actually met in for lunch. We do have a beer, too yeah you don't know that dude Unless you seen him Hamburg, you don't know how middle now, I think, kids and he's got a whole life is running. This is named the fucking TED Haggard, the Guy Church guy smokes Meth

look for hookers so interesting to me about a story like that. What we're left with is the idea that what we have to say is well. He must he must be crazy. Something must be off with him. What was that people saw several weeks later? I mean one of the things that interest me about that story, as they were very near military base and again this is all in the book, but one of the things that happened to him after he reported sighting. As he started getting calls from somebody who was identifying themselves as a member of the military who is advising him not to talk this anymore in saying they wanted to meet with him. That was may I was calling. I was just trying to get him to come on. The podcast it was Robert Deniro is Danira Neuro. I was rehearsing my roar neural yeah I wish he just pulled out. His phone took a picture that we've been have one mother fuck, we're out there in your hunting without a phone actually funny part about this one, when this is Constable Constable, that's what they call their share of Leroy Gaeton

had a camera nearby when he had his sighting. It was in his car and he was ten feet from his car and he had to make a choice. Do I take my eyes off this unbelievable sight and miss it? Where do I go grab the camera in his choice was to stay rooted to the spot and it- and I think that that's another thing where I just sort of caution the skeptics I mean at the end of the day. You know what they saw. Stephen. An unidentified flying object in you, you we we end up with believers, who hear that and say we don't know what it was there for aliens and that's right ridiculous right, but we also have with skeptics who want to explain away as flares, and you know what that's equally. Freaking ridiculous was. I was with you until you said fricking and then I'm like listen man, we're grown adults here bucket, Thank you, Ryan. I'm going to wait, you you hurt Brian, you know what man this is the first. Podcast I've been on where, like squaring, is just like cool

really every other one. It's always nice, where maybe Matt doesn't this info and I didn't realize it, but the other ones that are clean. You know, if you listen to them there, We swear our off yeah. You know I mean, like I swear all the time well, but I'm used to in the setting of ufos were big foot's instead of ships there to flying. I just I used. I have a a joke that if there was going to be ufos, why would they come in the form of a disk? If they can get here from another planet? They could make themselves a great cloud like that's something. We've already figured out how to do with, like those japanese jackets that show an image of? What's behind you on you, if you're, seeing that there pizza, technology. There are people actually do claim they come here as clouds, I'm sure that's fine, yeah! Well, I have a problem. I have a friend who's got a problem rather uh. I didn't know he was nutty and we were in the Improv one night and he's like check these out and he starts show me pictures of clouds.

Hi go us beautiful. I got a is on his Iphone transaction declined his you know, they're out there all the time, they're always the following the I go, I go. What exactly are you saying he goes? These are flying saucers because these are from another planet because they're out there they're following all the time- and I re noise. Oh, I thought this dude was just nutty. I thought he was like a nutty comic. No, no he's got some some things, some A is connected a b and b is hanging down here, loosened spark in and when I smoking aliens Joe I've only met people who are so interested in this idea that they're being they've been abducted or yeah it there a visit by aliens. I met a guy who claim to have an implant in his leg and he didn't want it removed because the times that he's thought about it, he began to feel nauseous, and this made him think that the You know the aliens don't want him to have it removed and just this whole trip into

to crazy land, because there's a lump under his skin and right and that could be glass- that's been working its way up. You know I mean for grades or who does what the it is. Rightly so, gonna growth and side actually met people like that. I mean, I think, that's what it was. It was me so much about Ricky Right is he didn't want to give the interview? isn't a notary since there's no profit. In for me. If anything, he just faced embarrassment over this well, I wish a story was enough for me, but I still have an open mind. I still have an open mind because, even though I know that most people are full of shit, I still know that we can send a rover to Mars if we can send a rover to Mars There was a some sort of a civilization out there that wasn't just one thousand years advanced but millions of years dance, and perhaps they live move in a solar system that doesn't get pelted by asteroids every couple hundred million years and wipes out everything on the planet and who knows

what level of achievement they've had. Technologically, it's it's out absolutely possible. One of the guys are right about the book, a doctor in a commercial NASA astronaut his family in a hundred years. If you just sort of trace blood bloodline, they moved west in, of course, drawn wagons, and then he was on the moon one hundred years later, that that's technology, advancing from a horse drawn wagons to the moon and but he's a big UFO believer he's actually said that he saw some things when he was uh in space now heat. Well, no, not in relation to ufos at all. He maintains that he saw nothing in terms

Well, I have your Mitchell. Why do I think he does believe in ufos? He says: he's talked a member of the military since he was short and that there that ufos should be identified as alien craft in some cases right that we are being visited. But what happened in space was completely different. It was, it was a religious, spiritual, say, spiritual experience. You had an epiphany where he had the same sort of experience that people report in meditation when they hit this kind of bliss or sometimes on psychedelics, where it was like everything dropped away and he felt himself being at one with the entire universe that everything was connected. Everything was one thing and it was a feeling that he had all the way back. You know over a period of a a day or two. He would have this experience every every you know who

a regularly feel this sense of wonder and the sense that he was you know he rejected his parents. Religion, he'd gone completely down the science half and it completely altered his perspective and made him think that there's some way of uniting spirituality and science, he he landed and started the institute, a nomadic sciences to try and find some sort of connection between spiritual experiences. And givens and in some scientific basis for them yeah he what EDGAR Mitchell's deal is with site with aliens rather is that he has talked to quite a few p and that were high, knowing people in joint chiefs of staff, intelligence committees type characters and they told him. There was a UFO crash that there was an alien spacecraft at Roswell, and that is pretty fast

Bing stuff listening to him. Uh I'm reading. Rather this thing and he had something to do with the disclosure project. With Doctor Steven Greer, who one day we would like to get him on this podcast as well. 'cause he's another very highly credible person and his disclosure project included a lot of very high level, former military people who talked about their experiences and they think It's high time that we start being honest about what these people in high levels, the military have already experienced, know about it and the fact that there's there's Billy a high level of probability that we we're consistently visited by some freaky dudes from the part of the world or another dimension or but they just can

Lebanon out like that, and we don't really know what the is going on, one that holds the you know when it will end when the argument you get from the skeptics is that our planet, and is you know one among so many? How would they find us? What kind of propulsion system could possibly carry them? and they're basing this all off on what we know right now with our technology and our understanding at the moment. But, as you said like, if you've got a civilization has been around for thousands were potentially even a million or more years, who knows what they could have that's a it's it's it's! It's just really sort of argument to me because it's based so much on this idea that this is advanced is where ever going to get well. I was tough point out of for two hundred years ago, when you wanted a picture, something you have to draw it If you wanted to get around to write a fucking animal and it was the dumbest time ever, you have to draw two hundred years ago, you draw things to let anybody anybody else know what they look like. We're still doing that in the courtroom, with the fuck what the fuck, but it's

be incredible. If you stop and look at that, that we've got and from that in two hundred years to making high. His videos with your cell phones watching streaming. Videos playing ville what games are tablet I mean just that Leah, no one saw coming before photographs, no one would have imagined that this tiny blip in human time of two hundred years could have that much innovation and the only time I really get sad about dying nail is what I think about this shit. I'm going to miss. You know the advances that are coming up like I, I'd like to experience? That's like privacy, you're going to miss privacy that shits out the window? Son yeah! That's that's the first thing that's going to go. I think I think there really would be no privacy in about two years in the one hundred years, I think everyone is going to know it probably won't. Even that on triple seems strangely disinterested in privacy. Now too, I mean I can't get over how raw people are in terms of the information they share about themselves on Facebook and

the phone you lose your diary, you know like you, could get all your family photos or people's phone numbers. Your past text, your emails, I mean that person is, that's gained a huge part of your privacy by just losing a phone. If you don't have a fucking password on this stupid, most people down. That's true. If you like person once peer into someone's text messages, but I think that that access ultimately will one day just be universal. Might be find out anything that anybody doing people are walking with apps. Now that will automatically tweet where they are yeah. That's crazy! Yeah geotagging, like that's great, if you want Welcome, now to really stock. It's online, the GEO tagging all the place. You can let narrow it down pretty good. Yeah people are weird man. It's the the the whole connection hasn't been figured out. Yet this whole connection between every human

and being on the planet through the internet really hasn't really figured out. I thought you were going mystical with that for a second. This whole connection is that as well, I'm trying to figure that out too right. I think that, as we said, I don't think that the human body in this form is done. You know, I think it continuing to change and continuing to a lot of people don't like to use. The word evolve. 'cause, you know. Real evolution involves mutation and adaptation to the U natural surroundings, and it might not be that there might be. There might be a lot of things going on a constant move towards improvement. By using sensors, are you from it could be that

The overview overview effect you familiar with that. No what's that! So that's what EDGAR Mitchell experienced right and he he's very adamant about this. It seems to be true and NASA allows that this happens now that that the people they send up into space are changed by the experience of seeing the earth from space and has a profound impact on them. They feel it in for Mitchell. It becomes a spiritual experience for other people. If he got the more involved in politics, they they recognize the how arbitrary the lines between countries are in the lines we draw culturally, but they they see just how fragile our little planet is hanging out there in space and it changes them, and I think most of us would agree it's changing them for the better. They end up coming home and doing sort of moral, altruistic things with their lives and that now we're gonna have severe

means being set up in the space, mostly wealthy civilians, initially, because how much that rides, gonna cost right from the low airspace or virgin every time at a hundred thousand dollars a hundred fifty thousand dollars. I came over the price at this point, but I had researched it and we're going to have general civilians getting shop. It shot up into space and having an experience of seeing the earth from there and it's going to begin to slowly change the culture. I would think because, if you look at how dramatically it change the lives of all the people who have gone into space, it's going to change these people to to some degree your Mitchell's take on. It is very true. The man skip very trippy when they, when he was in the the spacecraft coming home. This is his words. Suddenly I realized that the molecules in my body were created in an ancient generation of stars and suddenly that became purse no and visceral, not intellectual and I never had this experience. It was a cup

by bliss and ecstasy I have never experienced so he's calling its its calling at somebody. I quote that in me ask actually because it's a it's a heavy quote and yeah. He felt literally. It was like his flash dropped away. His bones. Have you ever been to the Keck observatory? The check up Tory in Hawaii, is on the big island, and there is one island in the whole wide that sold big. You get so high in the big island that you go through the clouds, hi Hilo, yeah, yeah yeah. Well, he loads just city. The Keck observatory is it's. I think it's on them on the man LOA. Channel which what one it is, the biggest one and it's at there's There's like a visitor station, that's down at like nine thousand plus feet, and then you go even higher. They have the the telescopes, but you get out of the car and you're through the clouds

and the way the big island is set up. They have these diffused lights so that they don't create light pollution because of the observatory, so the fucking milk The way was so stunning. It was so that, to this day all I think about when we talk about going on vacations and we got to get back to the tech. I got to see that again. I just got a look up and see that again because he really did feel like you were flying through in and possibly filled galaxy, whereas like usually see like a few stars like here and there, you know up there with that. Hi high altitude and the the really zero light pollution and clear skies is means. I studied lucid dreaming in here on the big island. One of the things I would do is at night before I go to bed, I would lay out in the grass and just stare straight out, because I'm in Philly right yeah, just don't get stars like that in Philadelphia. Is there? Is there really no lights? We wrestle retreat type center and and

it didn't just it set the scene real well to go upstairs and try and have a lucid dream yeah. I would imagine it would set the scene for freaking yourself out it. So I've never gotten over that image. I mean there was only a couple hours of just staring at the sky. Well, I couldn't believe how beautiful it looked. I gotta match it's probably a hundred times more beautiful when you're in space orbiting the earth. You know if you seen, photos that they take when they were up there. It's like, oh, my god, like you're, orbiting the fucking planet, you're above it looking down at the circular nature of it all and like so many consider there too. That's really interesting. It is fastening about the overview effect. You can show people these pictures and they don't have the reaction that you have from from being there, of course, you yeah images of never capture the real emotion of the moment. You know the connect, of the moment when you're, actually in space is going to be a real mind. It's like the the connection of camping,

as opposed to actual camping. You know most people will fuck. Are you camping, Leah Sleep in the woods stupid in the touch a house, but once you do Let me I get it. This is crazy. You're out in nature, I use a totally I'm feeling my my wife is going to be really glad that you're saying this, because she wants me desperately to go tent camping with her, and I am not my feeling. Always you know. Let's get a cabin honey will walk out in the woods at night. Tell her you want to go deer hunting, then you can camp out make make a make some sort of a agreement, one, shot, yeah, I'm engineer is ridiculous. You gotta shoot him twice. Sometimes they go down, you gotta, execute on trust me yeah, count. The thing that's weird about camping is that, when you're away from like Elect the city and how so now that shit for a long enough, you kind of like

is like real, humble feeling, like I'm okay, I get this like where just like another animal. You just feel out some way to separate herself, so we do our work, separate ourselves in our houses. In there we treat these computers. And electricity things together and a long as we separate ourselves from the nature because they were on their nature, you might get eaten. Then you gotta go fly. This island yeah sure can go wrong to put yep, you're on your hands bitch and go back to work. So you get in your house and you you hide from the connection with the outside world. But when you camping, it's inescapable, it's a weird feeling when you're out there, for I did it recently five days with no cell phones in no electricity? No, no heat. No! Nothing and we have started fire for stay warm and it was in Montana. I was freezing cold, but doing that You really have a different sort of feeling and appreciate

asian for for what nature actually is nature's. It's like we're disconnected from one of the fucking coolest things ever for a human to experience. We're complete disconnected from and there's a lot of people who live their whole lives in cities and suburbs. They drive back and forth from work and they never get out there in the woods. I never forget a guy and not college. If you went on this big long tirade- and I thought he might be mentally unbalanced because in this video tirade that helped us so Susan Philosophy Class, actually too, I'm so sick of people talking about the outdoors and the other is a great outdoor suck you get bit by bugs you don't know what the fucks going on you know. What's gonna happen next to get rained on your wet, but the fact that that was take on the entire outdoors with us in his own entire life like in in in a mall? I guess that's the cynics approach. Isn't it isn't the classic cynics approach? You like the hipster.

Fucking everything sucks man by the fact. That's that is our sport societies creation, I have to tell hipster that's one of the biggest pushbacks I've gotten on the sort of crowd. In the book then like the whole idea that I was going to go, study, lucid, dreaming and learn to meditate and do all these You know like why Riley you put that kind of effort it was sort of like I I don't know. I guess they feel so great in there means that the idea of doing something to improve themselves further- or you don't mean just seems like an admission of defeat- must be so cool right, yeah. Well, that is. That is the thing like. Why bother? What are you doing out there with your stupid? So cake bullshit. It's not real, it doesn't matter. Look at my jeans but if they have skinny jeans in their sagging, have you seen that that makes you fucking violent? Doesn't it makes me wanna throttle those little fun? Well, if you're so skinny that you're skinny jeans are sagging, there's a problem when they put the city

they put him down low on purpose like that's a move to have your skinny jeans kind of saggy male cleave. Although yeah little bit, it's like you just let him know silly fucks, yeah that detachment things really disturbing it's such a week, fake sort of complacency- it's just just terrified, so they just tending to don't give a about anything in Qabbani thing stir! Well, there's a lot. I think, there's a lot of that. Terrified, I think, is the operative word. I think getting in I, and it was it's funny. I I'm not real, quick, exactly his parking sheen who, who in that guy went through the shit right. The whole apocalypse now filming in that whole story that all arc he went through. The basic fact we need to understand about life is that it's yeah, you know we are, we are called.

The things I eighty. We have a part of our brain. The amygdala that whatever were confronted by ambiguous information, is immediately going to be like check for danger, yeah and it it sort of prohibits a from you know, learning growing, trying to find out new things. If we give into that yeah I mean we are we're animals and we have instincts to stay alive and those instincts are going to get fired up, left and right all around express if you're in a city and is constantly surrounded by people and packed into a place, and I think your senses the adapt your feelings and intuition sort of adapt that environment. That's why I really made sense. Talking about people or hunters and people who were inner city people, because when you and involved in a really you have to in an inner city situation. That's very primal and you learn to slow it down. You have to.

Because there's so much happening around you in a way you kinda have to learn to slow it down to to see what what's important here. What do I really need to have my own, because there's so many different things that could distract you? Potentially you up yeah. What are what other information or what other pieces of evidence about aliens of ever lead you to believe conclusively one way or another that that there is something out there? I don't you know I that's another one where I can We believe that ufos unidentified flying objects right and there are times when we just need the kind of people who want to honor sort of like materialist science, and there are people who want to honor some sort of dogmatic religion. I want to honor that, like gap in our knowledge to some degree and just Adknowledge, that it's there and that's what we're working through you know we need more information, more data, not less, and so so the UFO question I mean have we been visited

not entirely sure I mean even at Stephenville, signing and get a chance to get into this, but that Stephenville signing there's a military base, nearby, this guy claim that he was harassed for weeks afterward by a member of the military. There's a story in the book about somebody showing up on his property and in the middle of the night, making his dogs, bark and just staring into his door, and clearly wearing camo gear. And This was during the same period when he was getting these threatening phone calls from from a guy was identifying himself as a member of the military. So is it possible that you know people are encountering at times some sort of advanced military technology. Me no coincidence that people started reporting triangle shaped Ufos shortly before the stealth bomber was ultimately revealed. So sometimes that's the explanation, but

For me, it is simply the fastness of the universe. It's age, the idea that we we we the chances that were the only only planet. That's involved life like this seem so small that surely somebody out there has to develop. The kind of technology would take to find us and get here I mean that's, that's the kind of thinking that really opens me up to the possibility. The numbers are just too crazy. Huh. One hundred billion stars with who knows shows how many planets more than you know, more than one percent Are you know some of a binary systems? We we don't know this. Is this galaxy? I mean it's a joke yeah, and there are enough of these cases where you know like Greer's people, the military people come forward and say that something happened yeah and another these people are. Are

kredible and it's left and then an identified category that you start to think. Well, maybe at some point some of these, how many people are full of shit, and so many people have told lies that if you have any thought What's in your head, that you're going to be able to tell people that you believe in ufos and not have them retical you good! Fucking! Luck! Good luck! being a serious person and being taken seriously if we had Obama if Obama was on tv and you start talking about your files and his ex grants and what he believes they are, and then he believes that were being visited by intelligent beings from some other dimension or planet immediately is going to get people. Will him off to crazy? Take him away, look what happened to Dennis Kucinich when he, old story, or you know, sort of was dragged through that story during a debate. What was the story? What year did he run when he ran into recently for tv yeah yeah? He he?

written or is I'm sorry, Shirley Maclaine, who, I guess is like a great aunt or something to him. God, mother came relationship. She the Red flag, well shield in the family. She, a book in which he claimed that he had seen a UFO and TIM Russert asked him about it during a debate and p immediately and it This is again. The language was UFO, not alien crash, but a UFO people immediately burst into laughter, and you can hear it. You know on the video I write about this in the book too people immediately start laughing and he sourcing will look. You know ufos, unidentified and people. Still sort of now you. People kind of gasping, because, instead of rejecting it out of hand, he's sort of trying to stick up for this? Those are the press, people that you root for to get killed by. The aliens that were in that Mars attacks movie. They come down with the Rayguns ACT, ACT Act, act just start, blasting them and killing Allen, dignified to be killed by cartoonish aliens.

Again so where to go perfect in that movie was fucking awesome. That was it that's one of my favorite all time. Alien movies, Mars attacks, it's much more likely how it's going to go down to these people that these knuckleheads to think that aliens going to come. Save us we're not saving. Champs. You know the going given them laptops. You know then they're not going to save us please leave us out of here and your Mitchell. He knows he knows something he doesn't want, tell us This guy yum, your your guy, did he have drawings to the did he ever sorrels yeah to the like, try to I will you want he. He tried to take pictures later of other. In other, citing he said he had using a cell phone camera. And he had another siding yeah, and this is Joan same town, but at night- and this is two thousand and eight and it's a shitty fucking picture

look like an actual little bit more video. Actually too, I he captured. Video he stopped showing it because He realized his embarrassingly, probably Youtube comments. They got rude. Well, here's here's the issue like how good a picture is: a cell phone camera going to take of a light in the sky, not very fucking yeah. I mean think about how good of a pictures taken of the moon looks like a tiny little dot, it's impossible to see an Iphone. So that's another one of the sort of like misleading. You know the Red Herring thrown out there by the skeptics, but we're all walking around with camera phones. Now, yes, in this camera phones suck for the most part, they have a very hard time taking a picture of a light in a dark field, Did you look up bigfoot I didn't do not no big foot research. I decided I was not going there. Maybe in book two after you take musher, then you commune with big foot. Yeah big big for to me was done in America. For the thing I was draw on want to know the idea, the whole

elephant ology came from. Is these are subjects we pushed to the fringe? But if you look at like near death, experiences ghosts ufos. They speak to the big existential question right that that really played us the ones we don't have answers to? What happens when we die? Are we alone in the universe you know: what's it mean to be human, these sorts of questions bigfoot doesn't really doesn't really get into that into that field. He's not he's not something. That's going to make me question yeah either the idea that there might be some undiscovered eight is it does not affect happens when I die, or whether not we're alone in the universe. He got here on a fucking spaceship, so you say this, but my friend called me up the other day I swear to God. Someone actually had a conversation with me about this day today on the phone he goes. Do you think that big food be like an interdimensional being it comes out. People do throw that out there, but I didn't. I decided

anyway, and I said no, I don't. I don't think that I don't think that at all, even after you said it, I refuse to think it you fuck. Who was that I'm not telling you it wasn't me. Was it yeah? It was Brian Redban, for it Brian Bank could give a fuck about Bigfoot or Ufos. He is a silly boy, but he's not a silly boy when it comes to like ghosts and like that, my mom and my sister and my step dad all say that their house is haunted. Really I've stayed at that house. I've screamed, like goes third jerks, and I- and that was the edited version, but I like I tried everything they like we are here. This goes that they all swear behind yeah, maybe they're. There haunted their minds and their dreams are hard. Hats for their life is haunted, maybe that maybe their life sucks a fat one, so they manufactured goes to scare the shit out of the in the middle yeah the night all the time too? I went out with a goes Hunter four for about

dated a hollow along with them about nine months or a year. Why did on? That seems like a long time by the research for the book nine months for a year. How often do you do it once once a month probably we went out and then when he had like a quote hot case, I would go there, in case I went out on Lake three four nights in a couple week. Time span look. There were times when the people didn't want to think anything was going on in their house and brought him in, hopefully to debunk it, but there were a lot of times that people brought him in hoping They had a ghost excited about it, showing pictures of smokes in the air and saying look at these orbs. What are the orders kind of thing? Please explain to me what the orbs are. Usually the smokes, it's just dust and stuff floating Indiana in the air near. The camera lens, and so the light flashes off of that Dustin creates this round image. That's me, Transp

current and you need to talk to Eddie? Bravo is Eddie. Bravo, believes you manifest them with positive thinking. You know it's fun. Hold your hands out like he's like got. Him gather his hands. Here's what's going on there, here's a test ready! Bravo, get two room as still as possible. Take some snaps right. And tested. In would be really really still in that room, see if the amount of orbs seems to decrease long He stays there and I think we'll find because I mean I I know some people would be to test is that they go the away because you stop stirring up the error. You've now been really still for awhile and you're you're taking pictures because generally speak ok, okay, what about when you get him an outdoor shots? You know bugs dutch bedbugs catch you bitch outdoor or for those aliens. What just happened to be the bugs That's that was a video artifact from filming those those call

bones, you know those rods, the Roswell rods. You know that whole thing that's hilarious. I bought documentary was like one are those things. This is crazy. I like, maybe somewhere in part. Part of the world was a bug that just flies really fast looks really weird. I mean the thing was that crazy, but then they they're thinking there and you know travelers from another That's that's why they're always there, but it turns out that it's just a monsterquest broke. This it took, took monster quest, thank I show never gets never. They never haven't debunked shit except the rod, but the rod that got you bitch, it's just a video artifact of certain cameras it when they put like a super high speed camera on it didn't happen. They have the exact same area of photographed, they lit a fire and bugs with like fly around the fire and when the bugs have around the fire on one camera. They would come out like these rods 'cause the camera couldn't compete with it or couldn't rather a pick up, the image when I was moving too fast to close to it, it didn't know it was focusing on the

in the digital imagery is kind of funky, but uh, speed camera. They got it loud and clear, and it's like a third year. It is stupid. This fucking asshole dedicated decades of his life to selling Dv Ds and telling everybody this fucking rods flying around the air, yeah I was trying to look for things would help me answer the big questions. If only for myself, I got tired of like You know I don't want to listen to some right wing. Dogmatic religious person. Tell me how it is. I got tired of listening to Richard Dawkins telling me that I'm just meet, and I just thought you know if, if, if it's knowable, if it's observable that there's more to me than that, I should be able to find a way to experience this directly for myself and learn about it directly for myself. So I started looking, meditation and lucid dreaming and trying to find some way of experiencing myself innocence disconnected from the right my problem with Dawkins isn't seem happy. I

one of the great and for it's a terrible advertise he seems like a bitter old yeah. Love the idea that he's standing up for science and he's standing up against the religion, ideology and brain washing and he's, but he's doing it in such an area. Sort of aggressive way that it. Weeks ago, like you're kind of a bad spokesperson for the butt, you are from the scientific community, like the encouragement is like so strong and profound, and almost hero like that. It's sort of encourages him to be this aggressive force of reason. I'm sure there's enough people like that that he gets the encouragement in Spain and a Peter Higgs, the guy who who first started us off looking for the Higgs Bosan he recently. Even just can I have said the doc is as fundamental as we sit here and Harrison yes said and his behavior against behavior or about religion is embarrassing. Yeah, he called a fundamentalist is an atheist

mental and that's sort of the worst insult that you can level out an atheist because they so you know they were reacting to fundamentalism in their in their view. But you know if you adopt a point of view to that degree with that passion walks like a fundamentalist and talks like a funnel Issaquah like a fundamental and that's what it is, I guarantee you that if you could get Richard Dawkins to take place and at least one mushroom trip, if not several, I think one to find out what the fuck it is and then reset and revisit go back in and sort of analyze what the fuck is happening. I bet he will have a completely different opinion, yeah interesting, so the possibilities you ever follow the God helmet that thing they put on you and a certain parts of your brain simulates. The temporal lobe with Elektra makes religious experiences yeah.

And on a lot of other kinds of experiences too. I mean, but the thing is the atheist community that sort of fundamentalist materialist community came out and said. This is an explanation for God and religious experience, but people have all sorts of strange experiences when they put that helmet on, but guess who didn't Richard Fucking Dawkins and when they screened him before put it on because he he wanted to. You know take part in this when the screen him and and put him through through the questionnaire they put him through a and and I'm not seen it, and so I'm not real. It's got this great to tell a person here to you know, get related this much of it to me when the screen him he his temporal lobe was really really an active right. It's it's it's not even it's not of normal a normally active sort of temporal lobe, which is what they were trying to stimulate. So when he did have an experienced person and just sort of dismissed, it is saying. Well, you know this guy isn't

don't like the rest of us and it's a it's. An intriguing thing to think that is. Is that part of of what created his worldview right, his atheistic worldview and is that the case or is it just? He rejects religion so strong that the area of his brain responsible for religion just get shut down totally. That's a great point, because that's the that's the other possibility right. It could be. If that's the case, the the the source of all like unrealistic hope, well in that area would not even unrealistic hope right, maybe reality that the the degree to which you know we feel it you know, If you pray a few meditating, you feel like you're contacting something sort of outside yourself. This is the part of the brain that processes that information. Well, if you never using that part of the brain, if you never stimulating it right and it will become less active, that's neural plasticity in action. It's just how it works said, told it makes sense if you completely reject any idea of WU whatsoever. The end will part of your brain

there's a big issue that I have with people. That will say say that experience whether it's an experience like EDGAR Mitchell had or whether it's a psychedelic experience. They'll say, especially in terms of psychedelic experience say that it's not real like if you had a- loose nation, but the same effect it has the same effect rather on you as a real experience like even if it's a hallucination, let's What's what's defined, hallucination as you're, seeing something that's not there. Even if it's it's that, from that. You benefit greatly and you have a real thing is going on in your imagination or wherever it is. You really are receiving information. You really are looking at yourself in the world in a totally different way. It's actually happening. So this event, this ex whatever it is. I mean we want to

compartmentalize it because you're you're, taking in some sort of a substance, alien to the body that tricks the body into having this state and achieve I stayed in having this experience, but it's still an Experian that you actually really have killed, can we segue into lucid dreaming, because I I heard you mention yes, that you were interested in it and I really maybe the most. Gratifying thing. That's happened to me in writing. The book is whenever I do, a public appearance or a podcast with big enough on Ian's end up getting notes from people afterward that they had a lucid dream either after the interview or after they went and read the book or whatever it is I love turning people on to it, because you are big. Do you do you do this on a regular basis? I do it on a regular basis before we had our. My wife has had fraternal twin boys and there almost six months old. So sleep is hard to come by at home, but it's I'm so proud of this right before before they came

long. I was having a lucid dream every two or three weeks without even trying I mean just spontaneously, because I'd trained at it long enough hard enough that I was having them every two or three weeks since they were born. I actually recently 'cause they're, starting to sleep a little bit now. I actually had a couple just in the last couple of weeks, so there were three weeks I had two and it's like. Oh great, it's coming back online. This function of Steve Volk is returning now that he's getting proper rest, you know and, and it's it's pretty, terrific and and one of the great things about it is that it changes your waking life as well. As you were dreaming life mate. It honestly wouldn't be worth the effort if you were only doing it to experience a change in your conscious, this when you're dreaming so lucid dreaming for those that don't know is the act of being a wearing your dreaming, while you're dreaming in choosing. Accordingly, so think of it way. One great way of introducing people to the idea is that we're going to talk about the oil change it for well,

one of the ways of introducing people to LISA dreaming to understand what it really is, and, and usually I'm asking this of like a crowd of a book book reading or something, but I asked you get have any of you ever woken yourself up from a nightmare. Yes, yeah you with this close to having a lucid dreaming. Having a lucid dream, we were aware you were dreaming. While you were dreaming you're like shit. This is a nightmare right, I'm going to wake myself up and you chose to wake yourself up, but the fact is since whatever was chasing you or whatever was happening that made it qualify as a nightmare had no Extr. Reality you could've just walked away from it in your dream. You could have because the laws of physics don't apply flown away from it. You could have gone up to it and said YO Why are you chasing me completely control your dream? Well, no, you control you with in your dream and for some p only find that they can begin to control other aspects of it and make things happen. I had one that was totally like. I could stop time and rewind the tape and started again. I had a dream that I was in a car accident and I got lucid,

and I'm actually already really outing. Self here I always had a phobia about driving. I do it. I've never enjoyed it right, but lucid dreaming really help me push past that and one of the ways was it as having this recurring nightmare. This is not once in the book. This is about his baby different nightmare. I dealt with in the book. Had this recurring dream that I would find myself outside the car, but the car. But I was driving the car there like me watching and then driving- and I would rack because I felt myself not in control of the car, and so I finally had a lucid dream. I got got and realize I mean in this freaking recurring dream and I kept washing the car from this distance I we just rewind it and and and to get better control of it, but I kept trying to better control it from a distance, and so finally, I just kind of zap myself into do the body that was driving the car, the me that was actually driving the car, it's like well shit. I just need to drive the car.

I need to actually be behind the wheel, not in this disconnected way, but in this present way I realized what the dream had been now. How now do you do? You purposely got involved in the idea of lucid dreaming for the book yeah. So how did you go about manifesting? A lucid dream? Okay, so I started, researching the main guy who has studied lucid dreaming proved. It was real and holds for things Doctor Steven, Libbers sort of reading book and plan to go to Hawaii for his ten day workshop, and I saw him Veniam is attending a workshop at home. Why it it's it's pretty, It's a I! I read highly recommend vacation, it's an incredible vacation and and and it's vacation the tapping into a like a whole new wing of my life. And so on. It's got, you're dreaming while you're dreaming and choosing accordingly and the I realized once I read that that I had woken myself up from nightmares for years, and so it's like ok, I have an opportunity to do something different.

So there's different ways you can train for it. One of them is you take the time to remember, for instance, a recurring dream or the dream you last night. I really recommend doing it with recurring dream you remember it particularly nightmare 'cause. Those are so vivid, you remember it. It's like a meditation, you meditate on it and you choose the point in the dream where you wish you had become lucid, where wish you had gained control, and so the dream in the book that I had worked with was a dream where this creepy fucking dude shows up outside my house and he's in through the window and eventually end up getting angry that he trying to terrorize me. I opened the door and we would we would fight clash and I would wake up literally at times punching the air. Just I am going after this guy, so I decided to meditate on that dream and look for the spot within that dream, where I could get lucid

and gosh, I'm not sure how long I at this point in the book, but it was probably a couple of weeks of work where maybe ten minutes one day, five minutes the next. Maybe fifteen minutes before I fell asleep one night and finally, the green happened and when the guy showed up in in my window, I realized shit. This is, and this is the dream, I'm dreaming and into feel yourself like to feel this- you don't realize if you had a lucid dream, but this it will use, there's a sense of disconnect between you and the per in the. U in the dream, right, until you lucid dream and suddenly find yourself in the stream body. You're no longer watching it like a movie, you are in it and it's like the matrix it just You get to be NEO, suddenly as I said before, the laws of physics play no part in most people find when they really begin when they first have a lucid dream.

Is this exit, exhilarating sort of feeling flying and dream sex like those of the things that people usually do so everybody wants to a flying. Fuck yeah. They or they take off that. Just let you know that what is what is best in life. Conan was right. He was right. Everybody running around as well support of friends to fuck outta. Here, what do you do in your dreams? You make some friends now you fucking you fly, I found it. When I was doomed when I don't, I don't have a plan, a lucid dream, I spontaneously the first thing I think the deal, because you can plan active you can say I want to have a conversation with someone, so I've had a fair amount of deaths in my family and my mom's dead. My oldest brother, is dead of brother in law, who is very much like a brother to me was in the family, since I was twelve, which shared room together he's dead. I had two friends died of cancer right In the time of the book, I was working on the book an I wanted to see my mother again,

so I had a lucid dream in which you know remember that that's what I wanted and I called out into the dream, show me my mother show me, you know, show me. My brothers show me my brother in law and suddenly I was in him. I was in a kind of like a mom with the dream started. It was in kind of like a mall, and I got use it because you did Caprio showed up and shoved me and I realized that's fucking, weird leader captured. Oh I'm in a dream right, that's how that's how it gained lucidity, Anne. I remembered what it was that I wanted to be there for and so on. I called out show me my mother. It was like the mall DISA aired and their eyes just in this black space, and then my mom was there, and this is years after she died. I got to hug her and it felt every bit as real as really doing, and I could feel her warm soft skin. I could feel the bones in the. Can I could smell her shampoo that she used on her hair. That should I had not even thought of you know I mean like, as it were, memories of hugging, my mother, and this is a beautiful, beautiful experience and I

I called my brother, my brother. While they were there, we ended doing that kind. Group hug it was really. What do you think is going on when you're having a lucid dream, I think you're dreaming, What is that? What's what allowing you to piece together this artificial reality, you know entirely well with allowing you to dream. Here's the thing people think of being asleep as as losing consciousness. The fact is what you lose is awareness, your conscious, because you're able to report what happened afterward or at least most of us, you know- have some memory of of our dreams. We ascension entering into another dimension, so the dreaming is what happens in the absence of external input right we're not getting any external input anymore. This is just our mind right. Can we call that another dimension when you the dimension of imagination, whatever the fuck? It is, however, it exists in whatever whatever whatever you know,

theater. It plays out in its going on somewhere. I mean whether it's just a bunch of shit firing inside your head. It's not really real, at least in side your head there's a whole. World like what is that that, that's the mystery of consciousness. Right, that's the mystery of conscious this. Where did where does this experience really come from? How the the is three pounds: lattice mass, creating admitting chemicals and electrical firings create this and in the truth of this, is that don't fucking know, and and yet we're inundated with people telling us what What we should consider important, an in telling us at this point to just drilling us with this kind of material, is paradigm that that we are meat Peter is that we have no free, will all the sort of it to me. You know just sort of I don't buy, that the no free will thing- and I think, if If they don't know how to explain it, how we have no free? How we

free will it's because we don't know yet about the brain and consciousness. But in I love same here same here, Harris really turned me on to meditation through reading his book. I consider him like sort of among the new atheists. He is a breed apart. I love the interview you did with him because he admits that the parent almost been unfairly stigmatized and and all this- but he's one of the guys out there trumpeting that we have no free will, and I I'm really happy for the opportunity to talk about this because and he says rightly that dog- Religion has an unhealthy effect on on the psyche, and it's certainly, as for a lot of people I as a healthy, in fact, on people and and society because they're, you know they're fearful in a they their judgment of other people and all this other stuff but when you tell people they have no free will They are more likely to cheat and this has been researched right when you expose,

the idea that they have no free will and then you give them an opportunity to chi something they'll do it, and if you tell people what You know they did. Is this games anything or you try? It was a test. It was an academic test and they, It would cheat on an academic test because they were told they have no free will, so they were suppose the idea that they most likely had no free will and the can group was not with x, not expose that information didn't cheat as much as the people who anywhere near as much as the people who had been exposed. Yet that we have no free will and when you say that SAM Harris believes that we have no free. Will we should kind of it's very comprehensive sort of a take on things that has to do with not just na. Selection, but the human organism itself and all the reward systems that are put in place to motivate behavior. It's it's not like. He believes that there is an architect

it's guiding your life? No! No! No! I just want let everybody else sure when you say you have no free will a lot of people who came up with the religious idea exactly a fundamental idea, he's a he's more he's. Looking at a completely the opposite. The scientific perspective, the ideas that you're motivated constantly by a series of factors that are beyond your control. Theoretically, if this is a completely just sort of a naturalistic material, universe. If we could measure all the variables from the big bang till now, we could predict everything you're going to do your entire life, every At least you get to make, because it's all the result of the conditions that led up to it. Yeah, so crazy idea once of taking computer, that's so powerful that you input in all of the data of everything in the state that exists right now in the world, everything that exists in the world in the state that exists right now and from that you could extra

Apple eight and go back through time and get a full detailed depiction of every single event that took place. It sounds compl. We ridiculous right now, but I don't think that's worth listen in the future. I think we're going to be able to get data from a like whoever thought like a million years ago. We would be able to get ice samples and that there was going to tell you a climate change. You know from thousands and thousands of years and that's how we know what the fuck was going on so one thousand years ago, it drew the gigantic chanka I single well shit was different here and look at it. A foot higher it's different here today. If I can take the time to listen yeah, please so another way of- and this is the part that really gets beneficial for your daily life, the part that was most powerful for me. In that sense, the other way you can train yourself to have a lucid dream. First of all, you have to ask yourself the question: how do you know when you're awake or when you're dreaming right?

How do you know what's different and what libbers found in what everybody else subsequently is found? Is that there's this kind of state test you can do to see which date you're in an the idea is to start doing it when you're awake? Do it all the time it should probably come from some q and the environment? Is something odd happens where you just think? Oh, that's strange lock into that, and here's how you would do a state test print changes in a dream. If you look at it something printed and then look away and then look back sometimes have to do with couple times it will change and the reason is because the print doesn't have any external reality. It's something that your mind is producing out for you. So I had print at one point that I usually I've just able to figure out I just kind of lock into it and get okay. This is a dream, but we are push what if he didn't push you

it was out in real life and also you thought your dreams. She started fucking random people in there like sex. If you broke what the fuck man, I thought it was lucid dreaming well. This is why this is why you might want to do a state test as well right, and so you check print and you see if the print changed and I had print change into just like symbols. At one point book just changed into a series of incomprehensible symbols. Digital clocks, oh really now function. An machinery in general will malfunction because you flick that light switch over there and it's actually can into the light bulbs, but in the dream, it's not for right right right what flights, which and maybe it goes on the first time, then, when you turn it off, it doesn't go off because it's not actually connected yeah. I've had that happen. In dreams, for I realize it was loose because I couldn't turn the light switches on and off, I've had that in. So I realize oh, this is a lucid dream like this is a dream: did you do

sing with that. You know when I started taking Nutro pics, I had much more success with lucid dreaming. I found that my lucid names before where were so fragile there, they were like a bubble like a child's bubble. You know when they blow with those things, but then, and once I started taking nootropics, there were like a fucking volleyball and I was like are you can kick it around like it was. It was different. You couldn't pop it. I can't wait to take my on it yeah. Do any new tropics, you know I obviously we sell on it products, because they're they're, the best that we can put We sell, we sell the best that we can sell, but if you're not into it, for whatever reason, if you're skeptical there's a lot of ingredients, the with the gree ingredients are available online, take any of those and whether in conjunction or individually, there's a lot of different companies and have them. I was talked about neural one, which is bill, roman Askey stuff now there's it's all fascinating stuff and you will

have an increase in brain function, so when you're doing a state test when you're awake right, one of the other things you do is you look for the behavior strange behavior in the people that are, around you in my whole life, though well you're commuting a dream and you'll find. You'll find that initially, when you first start trying to do state tests when you're awake, maybe the first day, it feels really awkward. Because now you're having a conversation with you, but I'm also looking at the print on your shirt and looking down and up and down and up to see that it stays the same. But after you get used to doing that and for me it only took a day day and a half. You know something like that of doing a state test. Twenty eight or ten times a day. I found that my status were actually making me more aware and more mindful of everything that was going on around me all the time. And it seemed to have that effect of slowing my life down, making be more considerate of of what's happening, making more present to them

synonym with and suddenly I and I realized right, look when Samus me says we have no free. Will you know a lot of times. We are just on auto pilot, we're just reacting How often do you eat a meal and don't really taste it 'cause? You were busy and you were thinking about something else. When I started practicing to dreaming. It was really it's a mindfulness practice mean it Harkins back to the buddhist practice of mindfulness. You are just more aware of what's going on time. Ibm was some movie. They gave me a great technique forget what it was, I think was through the rabbit hole or one of those what the Bleep movies, which are just over run with factory after his lot of fucker in those movies, however, even amongst fuckery you can sometimes get some get something you can use, and one of 'em is in one of the videos that guy said when you come to a doorway, knock on the door and say: knock on the side of the door and say am I dreaming and do that do Waking hours do that

so am I dreaming and I did it. I walked up to a door, and I said, am I dreaming and there was nothing there. I went oh shit, I'm fucking dreaming and then I went into the lucid dream, but it was amazing how quickly it shifted over from just random sleep and dream state to just that one action of am I dreaming holy fuck. I am dreaming and this the conscious mind complete a rose inside the dream didn't maintain it for very long. I've still never been able to maintain it for very long. I don't and I don't get laid at all my dream, it helps to have a get no pussy in my dreams. It helps to have a plan. So so, when you're thinking about you will you'll get there. I you get there, I'm never help. I haven't amount of faith, you will get If anybody will that you made a jerk off too much. But but if you have a plan before you go to sleep if you've mentally rehearsed just take thirty seconds to do it two or three times a day

if I have a lucid dream, this is what I want to do. You were in, like I did with my mom. I remembered because at first I was like oh shit. I'm in the small and you know it what yeah that's right. I can You know tonight I had a mission. I want to see my mother So if you do, if you train for that you'll, you will be able to what ifs of intentions go for it. There's really no lot well go for it, but maybe not 'cause. Here's what's interesting right! There's no! old laws. Societal laws in a dream, but you still have to deal with yourself in the morning and I know that song fucking funny, but like I the chance, in one of my very, very early, lucid dreams to instream hottie, it was great. This is the first. Listing my had a tiny that you feel guilty when you woke up in the morning. I didn't even do it because here's here's what happened? I ended up, so I climb up into this building and I gained lucidity and

Is this woman in the room- and I said to her this: this happens a lot of between characters. I said, I'm having a lucid dream. I'm dreaming she's, no you're, not They won't dream. Characters will invariably tell you if you say to them. This is to dream that one invariably say to you know it's not, and this is what weirdest coolest parts of lucid dreaming, 'cause, even the Burj Right S, and it's sort of scientist just kind trucks, his shoulders like somehow the dream world wants to maintain its staff, That is as real for you right, so the dream, characters will say this is yeah, and so, message to her know, approve it to you: it's a dream, and so I turned- and it was like you were talking before about when you have a subjective experience. You still had the experience. So I know totally what it's like to be fucking x man, because I said I'm going to prove it. When I turn in there in these big double doors, like thirty feet away or something- and I just want like this- with a wave of my hand and the doors I said to close these doors from Here-

right well like this with my hand in the door slammed shut and over the holy shit work 'cause. It's like my first lucid dreams. Awesome, and then I turned her and I was like so now. I'm gonna have you right, and so I grabbed her and I want to kiss her and then I remember, because the plane was engaged to my wife right all, but you know I'm engaged It felt so real again her skin or the smell of her. Just I was restored just got really good. You gotta fuck that Giles pussy well yeah man again. That goes sorry about butt holes. I am who I am you getting dream pussy. I am glad you know what maybe now, even in your dreams, I want you to be faithful. She needs you wait. Let me tell you about my wife going to get my wife back on this 'cause. When I told her about it later, she's like you could have done it immediately. Just fucking. Take some choline go right back in well I'll just say this. I've been doing other, lucid, dreaming, sense cell,

oh ok, good good, good cover, but then experience experimenting with dark clouds. Wait there's something about here, because one of the guys in the in the workshop would attend the workshop before brought brought this up in a why he said you know he went to have sex with a dream character and the dream character refused him, and his first thought in this is just awful right was to commit dream. Rape right, and so he was going to force himself on this dream character, and is he started to do? He realized this is not something he wanted because again jail. Remember. It feels feel right word. It feels as real as anything you've ever done. I mean you sound, like you're having very fragile dreams to begin with. That happens mean sometimes it takes awhile to get it built up, so that so that your lucid dreams feel at least Israel. Right is this reality. Do you want to carry around the memory of raping somebody? No did I want to carry around the memory of cheating on my wife now.

Well, he's got shitty dreams cousin my dream, a pimp. I just get pussy left and right turn it off with a stick. My problems I wake up right before I put it in I get along oh yeah. Let's do this, what I'm awake fuck? Damn it That's been, I mean I have shot loads in my sleep, so I'm sure it's happened. I just haven't been lucid. I've never get lucid sex, but the girls always nice to me. No ones every angry at me. You know, and I never have like a lucid dream and these bitches, like you, never had this. Is my dream why you so mean to me in my dream: that's never happened, but yeah I mean I've never wanted to do anything creepy in my dreams. Either. I've never wanted to do anything evil, but I have fought. Crime really have fought, drag my dream in a lucid dream: yeah I listed dreams. Are boring like getting shit done like errands and like I really like it's pretty cool like knowing I've done a few lucid dreams,

words usually when I and I always feel like the level of your sleep, I happen we should your. Right. It's definitely the level you sleep. If your fucking exhausted you're not going to really put out a good but we should do an experiment with the show Well, we should all of us try. We should try to have like you know, have like someone is going to come on again like ARI someone all of us, try to have a lucid dream, just force it and then see see what kind progress we can make. Is your having him but you're not like trying to use the drain number one. I'm flattered that you already know. I won't be back what I said number one have already flattered that you know I won't be bad, although that's not what I meant. I mean someone is here all the time. Are you live in Philadelphia, Sir? I'm getting better at the time you can come back in here this. That's not the spirit

I and I real quick honestly. So when you've been in a lucid dream and you have chosen to just carry out errands, he has his way. Yeah every week goes outside C gets tackled and raped by big giant women that look like they're in our crime. Comic books, you've, never big giant sized giant. They just hold them down, they just for women like Does Jim Boston in the fighter show his face into their big meaty big fucking roast beef, big gigantic rump roast big bullet snatch and they just shove it in his face and then so he doesn't leave the house much in his dreams. Right. Is that what you told me yeah sure I I have sex with a lot of ex girlfriends in my dreams. I noticed like I'll, be like okay. Next come on in the room, it would be yeah, yeah, they'll be beautiful if you could just call it up like if you had like a girl that likes you just did not compatible with, but God damn you guys had some awesome sex like. Could you just like, like honestly, you can know nothing about for training. If you train it this long enough, I mean I was able

quote manifest my mom right, I mean right, could manifest Britney spears or whoever it might? Britney spears and not now, and she don't you know, I think I think that I idea of being able to do that is fascinating and it's even more fascinating how few people pursue it. Well, you know yeah, this is one of the sad part is delivers. A story is that he discovered this thing that you can really use to defeat. Nightmare is, if you want to people has night terrors, where you wake up with, like sleeping, suffer from sleep paralysis or have recurring nightmare anxiety, around an event right. You know you're going to be doing public speaking or something, and maybe that's not your bag. You can rehearse right in the dream, so he's discovered and look it's in my daily life I mean today I was doing. I was just trying to train it again. 'cause now, I'm finally getting some sleep with boys. He sleeps and some certainty state test again and stuff, and I just look man just locks, it locked me in

environment in in such a cool way. I could suddenly really pick out the sound of the leaves blowing in the wind. You know is a really interesting it was. It was fantastic in detail how to do that in this I do know someone can do what they want to follow. It yep yep, nine news, then I change the rehearsing, a dream scenario and I use the state tests. I give both those methods and don't forget the door, knock folks 'cause. That should work for Maine to say. Am I in a dream Well, that's the way during the daytime are the the the the the daytime also that don't yeah just do that during that would be so hilarious to see you walking around fucking, knocking on doors and every time you do it. You go my dreaming, ok then I'll? Do it I'll do it? I just go. If I have a dreidel, then I'm dreaming no reason I felt so good, that's a good one as well, and also in dreidels pop up or chinese people right, then you say: Asians appear in your dreams, there's actually the good research that what we dream tends to be stuff. We've been thinking about a lot in the last twenty four to forty eight hours, so the whole

principle of state testing and asking a question. Is this a dream right or you know Am I always present my my dreaming. The whole point of that that when you do that regularly you're more likely to have that fought that arise. While you are fucking yeah and you're really yeah an it works. Yeah? That was the idea of the habit of knocking on the door that you'll transfer that habit to your dreams? Yeah the uh, the the idea of dreams are so fucking fast and is so little. We know about what the fuck is really happening and what kind of weird imaginary world you're creating inside your mind, and I love when people how to say. Well, This means that you know the dragon represents you don't know what the is talk. I am in the Lord of the rings and I'm fighting a dragon. It doesn't represent shit. It represents I like watching wacky movies. We got high and watch game of thrones took 5a brains went to sleep, kind of Dragon WAR is sometimes the cigar really is just sky

There are definitely times when you consider yourself. Ok, why this content, why these images? Why these sounds? Is there some message from here some something something my subconscious is knowing on that should be aware of in and work with in some way. One should, is a lot of things that her in a dream, are things that you're fixated on things that are constantly in your mind and that your imagination will turn them into a dragon or it may which you're a demon or- or you know, a vampire right, you know or a disease. You know, there's all sorts of things that you're terrified of in real life that you fixate on and much like the knocking on the door. They just follow

in your dreams, and this gives you a chance to deal with them. I mean if you approach something that's in a nightmare more like a friend and that's weird, to say, but libbers did this with this really ugly ogre that showed up in one of his dreams that he would always recoil from. He decided to confront it's the wrong word 'cause, it sounds adversarial, but he decided to approach it in a spirit of curiosity and compassionately figure out. What's going on with it, and I can't rule what exactly he said to it, but he ended up being SEP. Did it right? He d D didn't recoil from it and it actually for member correctly picking a part of him right. He was the ogre became that just kind of blended into many any any took as a sign of a in take this on for size, right dreams, immigration we deny about ourselves and about our experience and they come up in your dream.

This is something you need to deal with the need to look at, and so, if you do x, and in that way you but feeling more empowered, because instead of rejecting this thing, you or you're dealing with it in the dream was thought it was fascinating. When people give the very good advice of sleep on it yeah well, if you something by you sleep on it yeah he has that that that there is something that happens to you during the dream state. Where you have a better perspective in the morning. I don't know what it is, but I I am a day. Opponent in sleeping on it, I'm also a big permanent and jerking off before you make any decisions, That's also very important. I have to tell you man, I had an experience writing the book with lucid dream, where you can imagine the anxiety I had before writing. It was my first book I've been writing for years and years and years, but, like you know, five thousand words stories. Maybe a seven thousand word story now going to have to write Falcon legit book in hardcover form, I'm going to have to write ninety thousand words in ten weeks, and it was right before I was

close to go, get married, and so there was no fucking with that deadline. I was going to have to write this thing and have a full good working draft of it done in a ten week period. I was having all sorts of anxiety over it, and I ended up approaching a dream character in The store an I said to them I need help and she's like we need help with that. I said. Well, I'm writing a book and she said to me with like the utmost sort of compassion and sincerity. She said the book is on, written- and I had from that- the feeling of You know. This is not what you were comprised critics of the time. There's nothing like having finished in knowing it's right and it's good, and I had that feeling just sort of flood in me when she said this so real and so vividly that when I woke up, I started thinking about all the vagaries of how time works all the sort of stuff in it

In a sense, the book is already written, I'm just going to live through the period of writing it and it just totally refrain the experience of writing that book. For me, and it is strange sort of way, I mean to say that I wrote the book in an altered states. It is a big, powerful statement in a way I did I never had less anxiety about writing anything in my life. I would wake up Seven seven hundred and thirty in the morning was completely on leave from work. I would get a cup of coffee I'd, be writing within fifteen minutes of waking up and dead of producing what my goal was, which is around one thousand five hundred words a day. I was regularly writing three thousand and five thousand eight thousand. There are days I wrote over ten thousand words in one day I would have finished at two hundred and thirty or 3i, Klipsch my fucking goal by miles. I would finish at two hundred and thirty or three. I would go out and buy fresh groceries. A bottle of wine and when my wife would get home I'd, be this joyful CNN there making her this, like, like a delicious dinner and totally enjoying my life like rocking balls right, it was awesome

and it was lucid dreaming that did that and it was that experience having an anxiety taken away from me in this really vivid real way having that is really fascinating. It was awesome. I wonder if we could get people in on this of wonderfully get people to just start trying to lucid dream there is. Is the resources online? Besides your book, would we recommend people checking out? You can go to sleep? bridges website. He said his name, the birch l, a b e r g e, and he has a website. Even liberal, yeah, just search. I can't remember what the addresses for it. His book is is really phenomenal and it's it's very scientific, but it's for the you know anybody can read it and pick it up. So I mean there is a it's: become the Bible for what the the council's on iron ons for people who lucid dream regularly I'm I I want to see some of my book by the way.

It is right? Now they it's back listed, which means they're no longer not completely ignoring it, but it's been out for a couple of years, so they're not pushing it, and once one of the things they do with blacklisted book is they'll price it down to one dollar and ninety nine cents. Kindle for a couple of weeks and jack up the sales figures, and so I asked them in advance of this show. Could you please leave it 'cause? They just did it recently. I was like please leave it at one dollar and ninety nine cents, for the show, and they said no, but I woke up this morning and brian- I guess it's right now, it's still one dollar and ninety nine cents. Please I don't really fucked up What's it supposed today, fucked up good, because my it's nine hundred and ninety nine normally, but my feeling is: let's just get it into people's hands and so right now, let's all engage in an act of piracy. Harpercollins fucked up get out there and get the book for a buck. Ninety nine, love it and I hope they look. I hope they change their minds. It's possible that the person I talked to ended up running up the flagpole like I said you know what we should leave it at this price I don't really know, but I know what they told me was in equivocal now, but here it is

still a dollar, ninety nine, but he's around all Jennifer Levin Box that hard the hard cover, yeah, okay That's great man, Don nine nine is very reasonable, and I I I get all my books through. I have one of those I have a Kindle and I have an I love it: the Nook, alarms and noble version of it any book. Any magazine, I I, I certainly feel the impulse to to read it's their own. My talents instantly yeah. We live in strange times, man the ability to get those you get a book like that of a WI fi and some of them even have 3g connections like wacky fuck at times for publishing. So I think a lot of people are getting their books that when that right, what is your? Do? You know what the percentage of ebook to regular book, and I I you're selling. I know this book is out selling from the time it was released, its way more electronic, an more than the general industry. So when

out community year and a half two years ago or whatever it is. It was, I think they told me the figure was like fifty flow, fifty percent higher for electronic books. This book is over sixty percent electronic books that says that well, it's the the friends subjects are really supported by the internet, internet websites and yeah all the all the nothingness. What does a bent spoon on the cover? Can people bend spoons with a branch? You know I want to get to the bottom of that and is it immersion journalist. I actually was waking up in the morning and trying to bend fucking with my head, and I did it. In three days. In a row where I think the first thing I wanted to go fifteen minutes and I just started feeling so silly after seven or eight, that I stopped and then day two. I think I did three or four minutes on day three of like staring at the spoon for forty five seconds, and I was like I can't do this. I cannot do this

Maybe if you like one of those monks on a mountain dew to stare at that spoon for days and days and days feels like this. Just imperceptibly I've had some people that respect tell me they think it's real and I couldn't do it 'cause. I could Do it 'cause, I wasn't taking it people, you really believe in it. How why do you respect them? 'cause? They can kick your ass that's one reason to respect somebody. That's probably have a lot of money like you were some parapsychologists amount along the way who haven't stuck their neck out on this publicly, because it's really from the guy who popularized it or yellow. Is you know in my first amendment protected opinion because he's very litigious so, and so it's a very controversial subject. This is one of the places that James Randi kind of made his bones a skeptic and anchor was going after regaler and so a lot of people just don't want to be publicly linked to this subject, even if they believe

right, and so I met some people like that who have never publicly spoken about it, but they or you know, they're doing incredible stuff, call Dan may they claim that they were able to do it or they were at a quote spoon bending party. There some people have three fuck outta. Here, I'm gonna hand my spoon right up your ass ain't, no spoon bending party- you know that's a really all those are. I got to say all those guys would pass on the million Prize that he's offering you know. The million dollar prize is Randy's million dollar prize bullshit I'm not into it. I mean I. I think that they do not in the sense idea well eyes the electrons, the people who were doing incredible, parapsychology don't fit in to the way the prize works, so like people, a dean, Raden and Sheldrake Sheldrake when SAM was on here. He talked about Rupert and said: there's something very fishy about not going after the mill

there's really not because in in and I love SAM, but I just think that maybe he again we all come at this with the world. When he's playing more predisposed to be on be on a of things right things, and but but Sheldrake or or Dean Raideen, or any of these guys, Daryl Bem they're, going to construct a study that requires dozens, if not one hundred subjects that will take an hour and a half for their each individual session, conducted over weeks months or a year to get like this ganzfeld effect at thirty two percent versus twenty five percent we started. This whole thing went right in James Randi is going into that needs an event that will take place with a very small sample size for you get like ten bites at the apple. Basically, ten chances to get something or twelve in an afternoon or evening, eight. It is apples to oranges. It is completely inapplicable to what credible, parapsychology

After doing so, the idea that Rupert Sheldrake hasn't taken it up is not only not very fishy. It tells you that he has some fucking sense. So in order to get Randy's money, you have to do something like make the empire state building disappear. You have to do something yeah and you have to do it in a small. The big thing is you have to do it in a small sample size mean statistical. Significance is generated by sheer repetition, right, and so, when your in a randy requires a small sample size to prove he doesn't typically require a small sample size, but whenever you look at any of the studies, they're doing they're doing they're doing stuff that takes again in afternoon or and even and it's a kind of a public event, again I mean there are some parapsychologists things, Dick Bierman who said he approached him, couldn't work anything out. Super turtle approach,

could work. Anything out. Gerald them apparently thought about it and and realize that with you within these parameters, the kind of research he's doing the kind of effect size he's trying to take to get the time. It would take him to generate that. Just doesn't really fit To what they're doing over there, what seems to me that that statistical thirty two percent is that's a real number, the seven percent difference is legit client, meaning. It seems like that's that's something that has to be looked at now. It should be. I would be with you, it should be, but I think that this sort of the professionals and look their professional skeptics like French, and why is it in the as I mentioned Before- who will engage in a and a and a reasonable conversation about this. But then there are skeptics it to me like the J Rough James, any educational foundation, those guys who are or or just kind of rejecting and hand, but there's really something. There is something to look to look at here, there's something to wonder about, and I find that you know it. Never one more actor way of looking at it

and which is great hi, and it's also a far more interesting world. Yes, that move this, that that stud tiny percentage bump is really fascinating because it really you know, makes you go. Maybe it is an emerging skill, or maybe it is an emerging sense or, as you said before, declining one, because we don't, we don't use it in the the natural world and don't cultivated at all. And in look you know it's it's a figure when you look at that, like the cancel affect thirty two, versus twenty five or whatever an individual study might show one of the things that's powerful about that figure, and it speaks to one of the things that skeptics well right? Is they warn you away from those people who really are con artists? The idea of the Super psychic John Edward Sylvia Browne there is threadbare evidence for that. It's not something but I would put my name on an reputation on is saying: there's something we really need to look at this right, but the ganzfeld effect

there's so many studies, dozens and dozens of studies that go into these uh, what they call these men analysis when they crunched the numbers. Together that I will put my name on and say you know we should fucking. At that right and- and so it's not that the skeptics are- are all wrong- all wet right, but the paint with far too broad a brush- and I think at the end of the day it might my own gas their motivation is the fact that that mechanism would be on explain. The fact that mechanism would suggest there is more to us than meat is not something they wanna knowledge, because when you really look at these people, when you look at- and he's also dogmatic atheist. The idea that were more than meets starts introduced the idea of a soul write something that will transcend this bodily death and the idea that we have to you to worry about that to some degree and govern our behavior, based on what we're going to become leader. What we're gonna have to deal with later, potentially, and so I think that they're kind of keep in the barn door shut right, they've taken on this tack in life that they are going to hold this shit down?

fringe ideas, the unexplained anything occult. What have you all? Those things are not to be not to be given any power, but it's kind of unscientific to block out anything. Isn't it I mean in the idea of science, is to observe everything even very infrequent, but possibly real events. Yes, yeah. Yeah and you're, a fucking scientist evoked you're, a scientist goddamnit and the book is, fringe ology and it sounds fucking awesome man, I'm I'm going to get into this dude. Thank you very much for coming on the podcast thanks for getting the book and then we're telling them to keep it at one dollar and ninety nine cents, which you can get it right now on Amazon dot. I just want to say one more thing. I could see this all the interviews, I've done now and I've done a ton of am this was the biggest honor and the reason is 'cause. I've been listening. This podcast for the last couple of years now, like year and a half or more, and I find it. So it's funny, I'm not to guess you had on this position where this show

this become part of. Why I reinforced my own good habits like I find that it it just keeps me. Motivated to keep me focused on. I think this park ultimately secretly. It's kind of a cloak and dagger enterprise to get people to live their best possible life. That's the function, and it performs for me and so be on, your show totally fucking jack to be so thank you brother. I really appreciate that man. It means the world to me and I really appreciate you coming on here to share your thought have a cool conversation with us and enhance the podcast become a part of podcast history. You dirty fox. All right. Ladies and gentlemen, we got a lot going on this week. We got tomorrow would bring an Adam Hunter. We got Duncan Trussell this week. We got arisha fear and this Friday. I am at the ice house on the in the big room on at eight hundred and thirty, and one thousand and thirty two shows this Friday at the ice house and there's also a show going on in the little room at the same time right

you don't have a show going on over there. Well, Brian will be on my show too. Unless you got something to do, we doing something. Next week, Stephen Ellis, coming back on the podcast as well as Jimmy Smith. We move Jimmy to next week, Jimmy who is he does what I do for Bellator, very cool guy. Can I have some. So all you people going more into talk more Mm Arista up all this quit Gaucher. Those people will be fulfilled next Tuesday. So so tomorrow is Adam Hunter and you, if you want to follow Steve Volk on Twitter V, Steve Volk, and the book is fringe allergy and it is available, as we said right now, on Amazon dot com. You fuck heads and I say that with all love thank you too thank you to kerosene games for sponsoring the podcasts go pick up Blade, slinger. It is available right now for two dollars and ninety nine cents. How do

you go wrong there? You? Don't you fucks, ok, you don't go to onnit dot. N n. I t use the name Rogan and save ten percent off any and all supplements or anything play the nice kids for we get out of here. Brian we're going to be I'm going to be at Avn with SAM Tripoli and it's about to be announced later you're not supposed to tell anybody. You suppose, can fucking. You just blew your own plus press release. How dare that's how much he loves you folks? He violated all of his confidentiality agreements. Just went nuts we've been talking about doing a show in Vegas for last week, but you were supposed to tell people about this. Why didn't tell you what it is? Yeah you just fucking threw a God. Damn month same triple is about the announcement on tonight's naughty show. I think the legal you you've, you beautiful humans, we'll see you guys tomorrow. Maybe I don't know what you're doing I mean you don't have to listen every time, not needing nothing, all right so yeah.

Love! You love the fuck out all yet.