« The Joe Rogan Experience

#346 - Douglas Rushkoff

2013-04-02 | 🔗
Douglas Rushkoff is an American media theorist, writer, columnist, lecturer, graphic novelist and documentarian. He is best known for his  advocacy of open source solutions to social problems, and also has written many book and society, media, and technology.  Rushkoff also had the first syndicated column in the New York Times on cyberculture. Douglas Rushkoff, Brian Redban - Date: 04/02/2013
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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Ladies and gentlemen, just go there. The code is JRE, use it stamps com. It's fucking, awesome! Go check it out that stamps dot com at the top of the home page enter JRE, enjoy relax, repeat rinse Douglas Rushkoff is here, ladies and gentlemen, que the music tonight. I don't know it's kind of got too much tobacco in it The Joe Rogan experience too loud yeah, I'm sorry, the we have a an adjustment thing here which to we can actually lower your lawyer where you at. Are you this one right here that better the better for you yeah? Okay, sorry about that!
did mean to blow yours off thanks for joining, join us thanks for helping Maine Douglas Rushkoff. If you do not know of him had his, would you call yourself a media analyst? Would you call me theorist media author, mainly author Manly yeah, and your new book is called present shock when everything happens, all at once is that everything happens now and then, when everything happens now I saw quite a few of your videos online that really really really interesting conversations and one of 'em that really struck me was you able to several of them that struck
but one of them was your story of being mugged. An you told people on an online room like where you got mugged and people were upset that you in telling them that you got that in telling the world that you got mugged there. It was lowering their property values yeah it was. It was a bad one, uhm, that's so crazy yeah I mean it was one thing to get mugged which is kind of freaky self in whatever you no shame. Weirdness goes with that, but I guess But I was trying to do I mean deep down was probably elicit you know, love and affection, from people on my list. You know so I It up you know, and it was it does Social, some social responsibility to it. So I put up where I got my because everyone should know this is maybe a dangerous, stretch here, we got to maybe get a light, but so I sent sent it out and then the first
Two emails I got back from this like loving list of parents was how dare you say exactly where it happened. You know we live right across the street. You know you're going to little rock property values are you selling now is that is that now we're not selling, but it was a really weird time when people needed their property values to go up because they were trying to get big mortgages and pay down and do all that- and it was just like so panicky there about that that some you know someone was afraid of what. If a newspaper cover it it's bad and what? If it's so weird when ones and zeros trump humanity? You know in in that case that's exact that is, it's ones and zeros Trump humanity, yeah in two kinds of ones and zeros? You know the ones and zeros of money yeah you know, and the ones in zeros a sort of digital technology which I think can create a kind of a distance,
they couldn't get feeling the impact of saying that to someone's face yeah yeah, there's a weird communication that takes place online. That's either he doesn't have any consequence. You know you can you can do it anonymously in? This is what it's like these barbs can just send out and logically like in Way you would never. If you had to deal with someone one on one 'cause, you would feel it. You would look right. You feel response you would be like. Why are you saying this like like why are you being such an asshole, but because you anonymous. You right. Some people are just looking this unnatural communication thing right, but then the the the part that that worries me after that is, if you get used to doing it like that in anonymous way on line to set start to make the behavior a bit more normative when you're with your identity I guarantee it has to it has to there's. No free rides when it comes to that. I I really feel like your thoughts. Your connect like there was always of the thing
I remember I was in high school. This is what the someone in mind school newspaper wrote like a funny critique about the boy scouts and one of the things that he didn't like about. The boy scouts was that they want to. You keep your thoughts, pure things like you know. Well, my thoughts are my own thoughts. You know I'm just as long as I don't do anything. I don't think, there's anything wrong with my thoughts right. Not that was really smartly argued. I remember reading that going well, there's kids pretty clever, but then I thought about him like, but if you're thinking about creepy shed you probably kind of creepy. You know it it's it's not gonna get any better. Just you know you just gonna eventually, one day going to snap and then you can do to be thing yeah. If you really are like the I don't know, I mean everyone has their own definition of thoughts being pure. You know like a
more lenient person might allow a lot of healthy sexual things in the idea of thoughts being pure as long as it's not creeping, but there's other people that would just sit around and say. Well, let me just think about creepy shit all day and not do it and I'm fine, but not there's no free ride. There may be, though you think so maybe well I mean what you're describing driving is. You know the benefits of an absolute police state as long as it was always right, yeah, that's no problem That's the problem I mean, and then you can always get your my minority report. You know just me his name in there right now really subscribe, and then I'm just saying that you really could be nice. You can't have really shitty thoughts and get through, and I think that if you're really shitty online, you have those thoughts, even if it's only online. I really believe that none of this matters genuinely yeah genuinely shitty. I mean it's just. How do you decide? What's? What's what should and whatnot but yeah no it's people when they mean are you are online without your face them You can be on line with your face on the meaning you can get in real
yeah. You know until you just got. I mean people do investigate people's to it like. If someone says you something weird on Twitter, do you go to their twitter page and see just other kind? the that their right to everybody and go all in. I just crazy, I will admit: hi focus way more on the country and emails and things and on the ones that are the thing about get like ten emails. All your book was great. I loved it. You've changed my life, my children, you know the worst of it. You're older, he's a good delete, delete, delete, delete, lived at a time with your mask off. This guy This is the biggest piece of should ever read, bytes and yeah. That was in people loved it. In life, it's alright, but I'll spend the rest of my week trying to convince this one guy. Oh no! You, though I am not a bad guy. What the book is actually a you've got to learn the internet yeah I well now it's it's a well, it's inevitable! It's hard, it's hard, not to engage people, because it is there. They are it's like a person saying it to you, yeah, it's
very similar and to someone who's public. You know you're out there you have. Your name is out there in the videos are out there. Anyone can find out out you and see you they can reach you too onry you on Twitter. You know they can send you some shity thing just to get a ride. From you and then they just making you dance and your rants dancing to someone else's spell. So I got to learn how to a look at yourself sense. I do but yeah and to leave it, but you got to be able to do that to the point where, where it's healthy, not beyond some point: if everybody's going Wake up your bug, It should be this when it's, you know you've got you can do this, but you can't do that. I well in the end the sale of the market, but tell me I guess, I would tell you but you're, not a dumb guy. You would never do that. Even if they make a book like that it was so often out of line. You would look at yourself about to be condemned, as I can tell I'm talking to you for ten minutes you're, not that kind of guy.
The kind of guy? That would do that? It's like there's, sir, people that are functional crazy and they can figure, some things out and cheese, some things down, and then stuck in some sort of a weird right. You can't talk him out of it and you know you realize he was crazy all the time he just figured out how to get through, I've. You know those are the ones that will go off on crazy tangents and people go. What are you doing? 'cause the guy wasn't really not in the first place, you're, not nuts, you are ok, you don't have to worry about that. Get that lead up high. So you need to keep a posse of people around you. I keep telling you you're, not insane, then using the cattle I can. I can. I think this age good thing that comes from criticism now, because the this even really harsh criticism is because of their ridiculous, and if you look at what they're saying If this is ridiculous and meaning that is really reveals far more about them than it really does about you, but
look at what they're saying, is there any merit to it at all? Does it make any sense, or is it just nonsense? This is just the guy being an asshole or if you weren't you could you find merit in it like I've found criticism from the biggest assholes, but it was like there was like her of accuracy into it. It made me like consider certain things: yeah, I'm in the most valuable thing about it. For me, it entertaining it to some extent is just it makes me. It makes me more flexible. You know is that as a thinker you If you can rap your head around, you know. Where am I wrong right? It can make you indecisive 'cause. It's like well he's right and he's also right in this one right now, but sometimes things are complicated. Yeah. I know, but that's that's. You know for me the object of the game. That's why I keep writing. I'm writing about the now known present being present. If you're actually present, you have to be present with your cell
If the present who you're with right now and that's the thing that everybody looks to be avoiding one way or another, you know whether it, whether you're doing a coke second earned money or, if they're doing it, because they got a check a device. I mean, there's the constant s resting and it's just I see so few people. I walk into rooms now and I feel, like I don't feel like I'm in a room with these people, there's no sort of social cohesion they're not really present there, each in their own little segment. You know in a connected with the internet and friends, yeah and then not connected with with each other. You know I I am you know, I'm at net fan I've been since the late eighties have been. You know pro. You know point wingers cyber punk type person, but you know I keep feeling like
other than using these things to to reach out to other people and connect. You know we're using these things for business. They've, gotten super aggressive, behaviors gotten way worse, and I don't even think it's our fault. I honestly think it's in the in these cases. It's because we're living on this, this an operating system, but an economic operating system that just needs to feed off the when it's should be our space, not the economy, space yeah! It's I feel like we're in the stage of progression for this interconnected aggression, where we're starting off with now we're starting off with just regular telephones and that is moved to cellular phones, which everybody carries which is going to move into. Google glasses type thing which is going Eventually, I mean down the line. If you extrapolate a hundred years, whatever it's going to take Maybe some really crazy, inter connectivity that people share and I think this staged
going through right now. The anonymous stage of being able to like make a twitter account want some fake name and just start saying mean things to random people like that ability is going to go away, you're not going to have this anonymous portal like I, I just think. If you look at the way things go, I feel like the way I look at the future It's like this thing. That's going to be really scares is secrets. I think we're going to be able to connect with each other in some way that we probably can't even imagine right now, whether it's some neurochip or something that embedding your body whether it's nanotechnology, whatever it is, there's going to come a day where were like completely interconnected with each other, but the beauty of that, though, is It really worked. It would bring us back to the now that we've been avoiding all this time. Yeah they face to face, live interaction where you can't with each other, be 'cause you're here you know, there's this guy seems really look at this. I met
this guy. This show guy, you know a stage magician guy who could tell when people are lying. I don't know if you ever seen this guy he's like work for the FBI and stuff you can like he does all these tricks, he lines up ten people, and he says ok, one of you think of, and he can really tell period when people like- and I was thinking if he can tell that people are lying. 'cause he's got this talent. It means that on so level, we all know, we all have that ability right. So we all on some level, no, when the other one's lying to us. So it's it's kind of been if you're actually in the moment it's all exposed anyway, yeah, I think, there's a weird. Feeling that you get when someone's being deceptive there's a weird feeling you get where you're like there's presents a disturbance when you're communicating with them. But you can't put intangible there's nothing, you could say I always x amount of weight, so here right. No, this is a real thing. You know here put on a scale. It's but there's some weird thing that happens.
When you're with someone like you can tell. If someone is upset at you and not saying it, they can be saying all the right words, but you know like there's a certain there's uh, old or a lack of warmth or there's a little something I'd rather about those women in. What's it called the housewives of Orange County, they really? I got obsessed with them because they were just having all of these awful disagreements all the time and young communications guy trying to figure out what. Why is there, communication breaking down and right so is what I do so I know so. I concluded in the end. That is because they put so much botox in their faces that they can't actually execute facial expressions in an honest way anymore, in a way that the other person organically can react to my God. These women, in trying to kind of free, this time at age, twenty nine ended up making themselves in iaccessible to the now that they're in,
now you see. One will say: oh you know my. You know my daughter, I think she might have cancer and the other ones like oh, I'm so sorry, but she frozen in a smile right. So then they go to the first one she's. I can't believe I told her. My daughter has cancer and the other one. She said she sorry, but I can tell she's you know that's sort of. I mean it's, it's just a metaphor, but that that's true there let it's true stuffing cotton in the mouth and they can't you can understand what they're saying record they're, ruining the facial communication, expressions of of facial communication right and then the question is we live in the weather, shooting poison in their face to freeze that, but there to freeze it in time. ' I think they're trying to stop yeah time and that's like I understand the urge to stop time when you stop time, you lose the moment. That's kind of the whole point, I'm making second, the net stop time in a certain way, but you're going to lose certain moments that you know so I'm all for being on the net and having a net moment, but you
we've been here and I've heard you do those ads before for those sponsors and you could just cut and paste. You know She could cycle seven of them and maybe people wouldn't even know it's the same ones. You know you could cut and paste from another show and throw it in, but you I know I'm actually going to sit here and read these three ads with my friends. Well, if I didn't do it that be really bored You know I I never want to just read an ad, so I We always say you in Copley, but he may know more money you make from you know: that's the end of the model of the industrial age will courses to make print out more yeah and the only way we would do it with the only way we could even do any of the stuff. The way we're doing this, because we don't have anybody that we have to prove right with you know no one it does. I don't have to go to NBC and say hey. This is what we think I'm doing. I know you have these commercials, but we're just going to talk shit and occasionally we get to the point of the commercial but but Ironically, on the long run, it ends up making more money.
Yeah. We certainly more money for the people who are actually doing it. You know, maybe by the other system, you can make more total money, but it's going to go to you know. God knows what some institution anyway. So the fact that it is that it is live and it is a what Mp, three mainly it is mainly a podcast. You think on the first time, because I'm looking to do make a kind of radio choice myself and it's like well, I can do this for the man and make this amount of money kind of guaranteed, but I'm I have to stay between these sightlines and or I can get this other route and actually do the I do you know yeah there's not even a choice there, yeah not in this day and age. It's not necessarily it's that used to be a time where you would have to choose. You would have wow. This internet thing, who knows it's going to workout, but it's crazy, you. You have an option to immediately jump in and get a gigantic group of people that are going to start re reading and listening your stuff and you'll you'll develop following in no time and
that's happening. All you do is you know, selling ads for companies that you actually believe in right? You could that's the only way you should do it fun working for some company. That tells you not to swear or not to do this or not to discuss that or you know, that's not. The stands were taken on this particular complicated issue Do you know Fox says it's just that's the enemy of real thought, the enemy of real saw his committee. You know, I don't know what you're really thinking. If you everything you say has to go through committee before comes out your mouth. I want to know what the you're thinking and and especially in in, like the sense of a radio show. You know what kind of radio that like the whole thing, it used to be even DJS used to be this dj likes this music, so those k, wires, Aust or first broadcasting from the same city that your rent yeah ever when that did it and clear Channel took over, and it was like, oh my gosh, so we're getting a recording, that's done by computer, three thousand miles away. This is my local rock and roll station.
Having those Jack FM's, which is essentially like playing shuffle when your ipod. This could be anything of a number of things that they approve and they pretend were wacky. We just don't have any rules like we're checking for him, and it's like a standard model. There's like one hundred jacks across the country and probably more than that. It's weird, I think, radios completely on its way out. I think they're fuct, I think that's like it's a silly way. Do it and no one's gonna going to it with it after like why you're going to have internet access in your car within no time that's easy. They could do that right. Now. I already get that with podcasts on the Iphone 'cause. I have my Iphone blue. To my car so I'll just immediately say: oh I'd like to listen to a Duncan Trussell podcast Annina. I've done it at a red light.
It's so easy at a red light. It's one two don came to answer still. There is one aspect of radio that I feel like I would miss. Is that local terrestrial reality of it okay so mean yet we could still have like you can, and you know You can have a la channel and I can have a you know this part in channel, and you know we could do that technically with digital. You know where you'd pick your so called regional thing. It will be low but the medium, not biased towards that? The medium is, it's all a you know, and I wonder, would we drift further away from local and the kind of the things that matter to us in the here and now or um, you know, or will we choose that stuff? I think you know. Instead of like a local radio station you're going to have a million people in LA making their own music making there.
Putting their own shit out there that you can choose from. You know whether it's a music like a pandora list or something like that, someone puts together or whether it's part casting. I just think the id A local representative was always gross, it was who is grows. Wolfman Jack was always gross because for every Wolf Jack, there's a million other dudes that probably had interesting ideas as well, and they had no outlet so have one guy. Has this outlet from this particular time? That's crazy! that idea sucks the idea we're dealing with now is way better, it's like a billion outlet, six billion outlets, and there's no local anymore. There's people that in that town. It'll tell you about things, but everyone's more connected than ever before. Right and because they are, I mean the economy as we know it also has to go. To write: another twenty six billion people doing podcasts I've been in got two billion left doing farming, it's like
little businesses go, and you also lose those iconic figures like the Wolf man, Jack or like Howard, Stern, used the Well, I mean, I think you could still choose. You would just have major every once in a while. Something major would right, but it wasn't wearing PETE, wouldn't be that one guy who's, your town's guy. You know I grew up in Boston was Charles Lockwood era. Trials are good there, and the big mattress was like this. He would call this, but, like morning shows called the big mattress is a great guy. Lockwood are really nice guy. I met him two of actually, but he he his she. He was like the number one, radio dj and boss, and everybody knew it you would go to. What I was doing: construction I'm going to job sites. People would turn up returning the big mattress, listen Lockwood era and the That was a shows like that was the shell and the only way to
A show like that is to not have a lot of options. You know to to have a show that everybody agrees raw gonna. Listen to you know it's only three options, no disco! No, when I listen to disco, you know we end the there wasn't like the internet quality options that that that that changes, the whole game like there's, never going to be a CBS radio on the internet. No it does it does. It will, and it's gonna replace everything terrestrial I mean I never sent so if you're saying we're percent everything's going to be a Everything dresser is going to be a place. First is radio and its other stuff. All we have to make sure then is before we lose all those things which we're gonna inevitably lose to say to ourselves. What is what is it? We value about those things that we want to bring into these digital things before, where untethered in there now before. It's all the way yeah! Well, we want as our cake and we want to eat it too. Will
the digital era, and we still want mom and pop stores right trying to keep it all together and that's the question is: can you get both you know? So? Can you have this very tradition? you narrative 20th century industrial age. Culture live right aside, you know, sort of steady state economy and peer to peer currencies and local CSA's can we have an Iphone and organic charred and and those slavery in Africa to get either. Is that possible? open? So I mean we move towards it or not. You know it seems like that's what a great percentage of the world would like, but it's we've made shocking little progress and moving twords that potentially utopia right, but then, but you know, as long as we
I hope you know try to envision all yeah. No, I would say okay put, but this shift that we're undergoing now from an analog era to a digital one is a bigger shift than just then just that there's a whole different digital media environment that we've gone into so we've gone into this from this. This time is money expansionist economy live by the clock, universe, two one! That's potentially asynchronous! That's just off that off that they remember when the net first came up, it was like it was
you know people in Austin and slackers in cyber punks. The idea was that the net was going to give us more slack right and it ended up for most people kind of doing the opposite, 'cause they're, always on and working and being monitored, and all that and distracted. But I mean I think, if we, if we take command of the way, we're programming these things, then we can use them to sort of to create. You know the gorgeous culture slack to create. You know what a few of us are are kind of discovering we can do like you're doing with this right. You're just doing your thing yeah, I think we're trying to resist the inevitable and not inevitable, well, is a symbiotic computer relationship. There's going to be some sort of biomechanic, will connections. There's one man talking through through my computer to another man with headphones to one million people listening in their car wherever the fuck they are heat sink.
Right. It's I, I really don't feel like. We can stop that. It seems like the thing. We got so excited by, as as these higher functioning primates are these new things we've created that input us or give us input in a way that our bodies completely not designed to get like through your headphones, like like listening to a podcast like a computer itself that the ability to watch a video, the ability to The movie is it's all yeah? This is what the stimuli that's coming addresses just were not designed for support. It's it's reconfiguring itself to be as productive as possible. Yeah! Well it right, because it's not it's it's! What it's for right is to seduces into itself, so that the companies behind it can make money and because it we move constantly and two in a path of of progression and if you look at the technology, it's always going to move into a stronger great we're, never satisfied with any particular result in any particular more choices.
More choices? We want to be powerful more fast. We want. We want better graphics. We want bigger blooms, us all right. Let's stick enough, let's take it to the next level. It's it's the end. This desire to get these experiences were pushing the tech allergy look. Ultimately, this is getting, but then what's interesting to me about that is, while all that's pushing ahead, what we get in a digital media environment. Is we end up retrieving like medieval values, you get burning man and at sea and people doing peer to peer stuff trying to have their local currencies which they haven't had since media Sometimes you know you see the stuff that gets retrieved in paganism men and uh. You know mashing up routes to yourself a things make your culture. All these things are what we've lost over the last one thousand years, that's what the renaissance in the industrial age was about, stamping that out and putting
nobody on the on the assembly line at Ford, so it's fun that as we move forward, we get these great old recurrences, which to me is reassuring. It means that we are bringing something with us into into this next place. I think it's also the current system. So flawed, that people are willing to try anything and that there actually actively thinking about what and we do differently. Can we make a low local currency like right? You know, which is interesting is like the two places I've gotten emails from. The last many years of people doing social currencies are either from a place like it's a good New York where they're doing it, because just you know strange and trying to try something, weird and good or, Lansing Michigan, where there's no GM plant. There's no bank, that's going to give money to a factory to open up to hire people and they're desperate, they're like well. I've got the skills, I know how to fix frederator and they have needs so can't we just make an economy that way. You know those are the places where people actually asking. That
the the the way they're ready. I just don't like that reading is seems to involve being just so I'm not just fed up but uncomfortable. You know that you've got to do something yeah. The word was clearly going through change, we're with clearly going through a change in the culture that we weren't prepared for and we're sort of making our way as we go along and there's a there's, a of of a lot of mistakes along the way and the evidence that points to it, but one of the best pieces is your story about people getting upset at you, because you got mugged and called in the story in and said the low yes and that's one of the best examples of people like losing the script. Like you like along the way in this crazy thing that we're doing where we developed and see and and then this things call property values and as mortgages and equity and all this crazy along the way. You know we're gonna have to figure out how to how to stay human and when you
like instant failure like oh, my god, I got mugged you sucking. So what do you? Why do you say the place? It's interesting. I mean it's in every single one of my books, I've written like twelve. Now you know they're all finally about how We bring humanity into this thing. That seems to have lost it right now, so I did it for you know for, business, I did it for her for the economy with life. Think is the book you're talking about two different Judaism was on the call. Nothing sacred same Judaism should be this on going conversation, keep alive, keep human, don't let it locked down and now that this one it's weird, because it's like I'm kind of admitting that it's what I I guess some of realized it myself, but I'm kind of saying. Oh, my gosh, I'm a humanist. No I'm a humanist, and technology enthusiast hand. How do you be both because so many of the other folks who were sort of pro technology sort of my past they're all sort of talking about not human beings being in a by technology. But technology surpassing.
As you know, some singularity- or you know some some moment in the future. Get smarter than us and then we're not really needed anymore. It might not be that simple, I'm Think thinking about it. A lot lately and one of the things I think is: why do we have this idea of competition and why would the computer enjoy that idea with us right is based entirely on our biological makeup, are need to reproduce or need to prove ourselves to our mate or need to protect against strangers all his instincts that a computer, we're have at all so the idea of competition with you, things for resources or the even the idea that survival is imperative and that you know- you have an ego and you can't die they're not going to have any of that. So why would they be in competition with us? Why? it wouldn't like any new it wouldn't be because of them might be because of the way.
Reprogram reprogram them. You know if we dissent yent, though, that that's when they wouldn't do the bad thing, because when I keep us around, but I don't even it's not it's not a matter of them being able to do that, because I don't even think they will. I don't think they and it's more a matter of people in the here and now saying that human beings are really only important in so far as we can be the shepherds in organizers of information right now. Information is the thing that's involved torch greater states of complexity and once human beings are no longer the best at making complex information, but computers are the best at it. Then there's just no need for humans anymore. With the computers this or not, I don't know what they give us a good time who knows, but but just the whole idea that we should be developing technology. With this in mind, I
it it negates what I think is an essential for us anyway, centrality of humanity in the equation. Why? I think people don't recognize how much we need each other? We don't recognize how important positive interaction is with other people to your health and the way you feel about life. He will. There is clearly a relationship that people have, have to each other that we're in denial about lock ourselves up in our apartments or in our homes, and we shut our car doors and we roll down the window. One of the reasons why people are willing to give people the finger when they're in the car. He would never do that and really glad you like you're in some sort of a contained world, and even though you're not even anonymous, you still like Fa Q, how many people do you give the food in real life like nobody,
But once a year I'll give somebody the finger some of the some crazy in a beep it? May you you it's beautiful beautiful thing to do, but you know that eventually I think we have to accept the fact that we we we only happy when the people around us are happy when we're in harmony with the people around us were not happy when we're in conflict were not happy. When we're not happy when we fuck, over like I know, people that have done bad things in business and bad things ethically and bad. You know and they're not here no, but then in the current culture they can compensate for that with medicine. That get pressing that gets them through the night, but you have to hope I mean I always do, which is it vain hope? I hope that the people who do bad stuff, but then make up for it with drugs, still feel worse than I do. You know not not taking those drugs and trying to do good stuff. You don't want to believe that you know these kind of guys like I used to see
even say his name, one of those millionaires down at Knicks games- and I always think, I sure hope, he's not happy that's, which isn't very fair, well he's doing this plan, some really crazy game that was around before he was ever born. He just got into it and got really good at it. Yeah the game itself. It's been manis, just the stock market itself, just the idea that the wealth of of of a person can vary day by day. A because of confidence in our brain, often has a computer consumer confidence in a product and like shift and change with recall, and then you will watching these numbers go up and down like what the fuck are you even talking about most of the explanations you see, you know I watch these business sites in the market will go down and they say: oh market because of such and such and London, and then it's like by the time that peace comes out, that market actually back up and they're already can trucking their let's time market going back, another random feature, you know it's like the
explanations after the fact that so little to do with whatever algorithm decided it was gonna, suddenly ultrafast trade, something in and throw the stock up. You know it's like at this point: it's it truly is that's the best place to see humans, combating machines is on the market where it's like. There's human traders competing with these programmed algorithm send. The algorithms are certainly winning the war and if you look at their screens, while there while they're doing it is almost like code, like the average person who doesn't understand it does know what the the stock market saying the symbols in the essay oh and this, and that and the ones and zeros you look at all that you have no idea what that is. I mean: how is that really different than a computer code that you're reading mean that's essentially like a way that people are.
Our our yapping and well it is our yeah. I mean it was at one time the sort of the price of something had to do with some thing right. It's like there's a factory, it's factory went slower today in the rain. The market will go down on the table like real. You know, and gotten certainly further and further from Whatever is going on in that company or their earnings are the things you know it's. It's absolutely obstructed to the point now where people don't even invest in companies. Are you invest in something like one facebook? When public people bought it like nine. In the morning, like nine hundred and ten they're all this stuff, but it hasn't gone up wait a minute I was supposed to triple my well shuffle my wealth, it's like no, you don't. You don't make money on the trade to make money on when you've done it put now, we've got driven ebbs derivatives and derivatives of derivatives, and as a derivatives of derivatives on there, which is just a way of kind of shrinking the explain
people don't know what this song it's. So if you buy a stock I mean you know you by stocking hope it goes up, and then you sell it in the future. If you'd rather make up that time right now, I can sell it in the future right now right. I can basically sell that future sale because I think that sales going to be a good one, now right I can say what, if I did, that trade I'm going to have it now, but one of my trading, then I'm trading I'm trading on on an abstraction from what something's gonna to be worth. Someone will in the future, So it's like I'm trading on the stock overtime and then someone else Well, I'm going to trade on the abstraction of that I'm going to trade on whether or not people think the stock in the future is going to be worth more next minute than this minute. It's like! Well, what's that, so, basically, what you're doing is you're buying the stock overtime, overtime, overtime, overtime, your create,
these things these derivatives of whatever the original investment was, which is kind of just a derivative of the thing. I guess the pork belly, this dread of the pork belly driven driven as straight of the derivatives of the derivatives of the derivatives, all all ever other ways of saying what is pork belly going to be worth? You know on February. Third, why is that legal? Well, it's legal, because what it because the economy requires it right. We have a kind of money right that has a clock in it, it's lent into existence and has to be paid back more than got lent out. So our economy needs to expand by hook or by crook. Somehow it has to grow in order
to survive. That's just the way central currency works. They need to find more surface area for the money, more ways for people to buy stuff. So, instead of just having there's not enough of a company to buy so now, we can bet on how that company is going to do in some future. Now we can bet on that or we can bid on that right. But what we're really doing is trying to kind of compress all of this time right until like the head of a pin. So we can bet on that. So I don't have to sit and wait. You know three thousand years for Facebook to be worth something. I can trade on his future worth now, but the whole joke of that is people who are trading that way. There are these computers that are trading faster than them so And one of my super fast crazy. You know derivative trade, Goldman Sachs sees that order coming in on the computer there so close to the exchange they can execute. In order. For my order even goes through based on. Having seen that, I was going to do what I'm going to do so they can literally
trade in my future. I I am in their past now, that's digital time, that mean that that sounds like it's reading that like someone like running a quake server and their local, and then you have like one hundred and fifty ping exactly that's bullshit I think so. With the bulls, the irony of it is it's gotten so big right do it of trading is bigger than regular training. Yeah. So that the New York Stock Exchange actually just got bought the exchange itself got bought by its derivative exchange. So it's almost just like the proof is in the pudding. It's like. The derivative owns the market. But that's when you get one step removed, how how Did the government even ever deny how incompetent they are when they allowed that, like that alone till and she just likes have a bit of the broadcast on national television, a you know, one of those town hall sort of events. We sit down with the the main people that run the country and go how the you allowing
How have you not fix this? Why would you ever try to do anything else before you fix this when they made the decision, they genuinely thought it would be good for business, it's the short term. I will never understand where business people promised them figure out before not really bad? Oh, my god would figure it out before it got really bad. How much bigger is the derivative economy? I don't know exactly. I mean it seemed. I was looking trying to not with that with the sort of training was, it seemed from what I could tell ninety four percent of trades are now derivative because they're in because there because there's such bigger volumes on trade, God, that's insane no one's going to like you're not going to buy. You know ten thousand shares of Honeywell. Today, 'cause! That's! You know. You know over sixty thousand dollars or something, but you could buy like ten thousand futures on Honeywell 'cause, they're, really cheap God. That is so
easy sewing level. Four percent of the stuff of trades are, we can look it in. And how many more is. I think it's ultra fast too, is a whole other there's sort of two different, two different realms, but yeah, it's huge. They must all be crazy. Everyone involved in that must know that they're bringing on the matrix. They must know that they are the first steps before the machine takes over, they must know. They must know that. There's no humanity in that stock market ship that scale the thing is and again I don't want digital technology to get blamed for this right, because the real operating system they're promoting is not the digital operating system. It's economic operating system underneath it it's this 13th century, central currency interest bearing debt based economy and none of the guys I thought would get us out you, as Williams with Twitter, Mark Zuckerberg with Facebook, the kids from Google right there get
Each of them had a real shot, even bill gates at breaking the central economy and and flipping things away. How do not going to they're not going public, not be good, not doing it with venture capital, saying if I can, if, if Google can hack web search, if Facebook can hack Social, if Twitter can hack everybody, why can't they do you know if they're so busy, dissenter mediating? All these different things. Why doesn't anyone of them yet want to dis intermediate central banking and say no, Mr Chase, we don't actually need your we're. Gonna do our whole thing through Kickstarter, say like twenty there didn't want your things. Yeah, that's an interesting point of view. I think they probably would never want to take that stand because they would be killed. I would imagine there's a lot of money and in in them being successful. With that quest, you know,
right sure that their mission is there a point at which you know you're doing Paypal. Ok, we're going to let people do individual transactions that was there their original model and they were going to make money on the float? And then thanks came to them, said oh you're not allowed to do that. You're, not a bank paypal! Kids! You gotta, be you know, There is a bank or you're going to have to be connected to one of us and that's when you know Paypal kind of becomes. Ebay, rather than whatever these crazy guys. It done, and I I suppose there's this point. You know where you know innocently these companies that get bigger and bigger, bigger, hoping to do the right things, and then it's like we're going to going to. Let you do this if you don't, if you don't play by our rules, but I also feel like there's companies that if you If you're willing to go smaller, if you're willing to let it grow a little bit slower that you can scale up, you can become a big ethical corp.
Yeah yeah! I was always wondered why a big corporation can be ethical like I can have a big corporation with a good ideology behind it. You know, but I think it's really, because the shareholders right, yeah and shareholders are impatient shareholders. Are there they're, not really there right there the shareholders are? Are people who just want to see a number go up by the next quarter, and if you have to make a number go up by the next quarter, then you're going to have to be thinking about something other than doing good in the world. Yeah you if it is ones and zeros at all cost yeah yeah, if that's the game you're playing, but shareholders, then you're going to throw you in jail. If you don't do that, I mean that's your fiduciary responsibility in this fascinating thing that you a corporation can do something that an individual would be a total piece of shit to do if it was one person that was involved in this one guy, what he did was he
You know he gave the loans to the third World Company, the countries that they couldn't pay back. He went over there monopolize our natural resources himself, dug the oil line himself polluted the river himself. You, know, raft and killed the villagers himself. He'd be like Jesus. I slack that guy in jail he's making people work for five dollars a week. You know that guy with the area this area's holding down, you know but be it's a corporation like well they're, making money for their exactly and how many people who, on the one hand, I will read you know good magazine or something to listen to us and and NP are in and be all sad about that stuff still has a four. Oh one k plan was stock from the very company. Is there doing those things so? Who are they they're, the ones who actually own the company there, the shareholder? Who wants the thing to go up, so they could send their kids to college I mean. It's it's it's interesting circular again, so I mean for how unvirtuous that circle is, though I think unwinding it is just is just as easy.
So it's like. Okay, instead of doing the sort of long distance, long term disconnected investments and mining companies, I'm gonna invest my money and where I see it, people actually know in the place where I am we're trying to do something you know and bring it bring it if not, if not local, at least at least into your present, at least into your into your visible reality yeah and it it really is the the the pursuit of the end goal of simply only ones and zeros done through a a corporate way is really anti human, I mean that's the that's. The real anti human aspect of it is that it will engage human suffering as long as it's willing to extract ones and zeros from that like right now, relates how much human suffering are we willing to cost how much devastation to the environment or we wanna cry right much. You know, which is why, then the question becomes. I mean in the nightmare scenario. Then, is you investors that into Techno?
g, so that your robots, no they're, not in competition with us, but they are playing the corporate program. They have no design. There are other than to extract extract value in meaning from on those computers. Running algorithms recognize trends in the marketplace before a human could never see it coming and then browner countered an meanwhile as we're making ourselves dumber about technology right here in this code, Cademy T shirt right wanted people to learn to code as we become more stupid about. Are theaters. Are computers getting smarter about us right here doing big data repository's of every keystroke right everything you know it are there they know they know stuff about us. They knew some teenage girl was pregnant before family did, and you know, you know when kids are going to be gay before they know themselves? You know it's like there. There there there Scott, really smart. Now how about the weirdness sent that comes when you go to a google when you, Google, something or you look for things that certain things online, So you go to Youtube and there's ads
for things that you've recently looked at is scary, tantalizing ads. Oh, I see you're into jeeps WHI. We have a jeep for sale in it's a new jeep and here's a video you can. Click on and there a be testing that you know understand which he react yeah darling cheaper, not going. Ok. Thank him that next time TED's they'll show you everything that you're into you like you, son of a Sonovabitch. It's weird! It's just the beginning, we're accepting it slowly, accepting the needle into our vein that pumps in nano cells that eventually replace human tissue, there's going to be a commercial is going to be an artificial guy is going to be saying. Why would you want to be natural you're going to it's not fun. Life gets even better is when they go by your house and your by your little nanobots to from like the most reputable company. You know the one that you really like and a great user agreement, and then but then after it's in you, it's like they get
by Google and all of a sudden, your user agreement shifted. It's like you know. You know Do you want to have you know? Do you want to Amber your children's names. You know, then, this new user agreement right have people two phone numbers, your emergency, nine hundred and eleven emergency call phone like your phone, it's not registered and only let you call nine one one. That will be the same thing. Well, you should have paid your bill. Cough. I don't know why you want to pay your bill now. You are with no recourse yeah. When I look at the shiny guy from the future he's one thousand years old and he looked great, but it's going to be all artificial, but again it's not it's not with artificial news. It's not necessarily, although it maybe it's not necessarily the technology. That's the problem in this equation. It's the move the technology right
ultimately, what's getting done, the technologies getting pushed. That seems to be right. The case in every single situation that ultimately at the top of the execution food chain, we look alike. What is being done at the end level. That's really the game. Changer in the technology constantly increases and with every you know over take with every you know new. My gantic invention and bundles of money that go along with it and all the people that got fucked over at the end of the day. The technology keeps moving forward
It's getting stronger and stronger and stronger. It was, but it's not just stronger, though it's it's, it's fundamentally different. I mean that's the thing that Mcluhan was trying to bring up the emotional cooling, the mediators he was looking at that the different environments, the different media, different kinds of technology create. So you know fire had to change the had a media environment had a technological lead was fire now, because you know people could then go live further north in colder places in little apes. You know who were smart enough to have fire to get away from big done, Mapes, who you know couldn't travel to chase them. You know we got different raises all sorts of things: happened because it's something like fire or the invention of text right, the invention of text changed well. For me, it changed the way we look at time right 'cause. Now I can write something now that I'm going to be accountable for later, so we can have contracts with text. We got history, we got the judeo christian line of thought. We got law and ethics. You know we got
are. We got the calendar. You know, then you know that all went along and we developed. Then we get the printing press and we get the clock right now, the clock. All of a sudden. We go oh wow. Now we can actually breakdown the day into these little pieces. We put one up at the town Square and that's when time became money. That's when it's like! Ok now you can work for an hour for me.
Of making a thing that you're connected to and selling it to me now, you can work for the hour two hours three hours, we got a standard, and now we get the digital media environment. You know, which is just as different as the industrial age media environment than the clock was from the printing press from the from written text, from from from even fire, no and in the digital media environment. There's this it's not just more tech. It's it's more, it's more of a sense of of moving through time, in a choice to choice, to choice, to choice way in a where we just have more choices than we know what to do. If we spend more time processing choice itself, then we do getting the things that we've chosen. You notice like that. The call waiting is almost like the typical kind of digital choice to just enter our I'm talking to this level, and I've got a call waiting. What do I do? You're just to be put in that just to be put yourself in that in that interrupt of state is very digital, because you you want to have the choice
is that person wants to reach you, but how you know how that interrupts? What what used to be a more continuous way of of just a moving through life yeah, it's a it's, certainly gives us more options and we're naturally designed to handle and the more people have on their facebook page, the more likely they really. They have zero connection to those people. The the I mean like like we're we're designed for Dunbar's number. Eight hundred fifty people yeah and get the get five thousand people on Facebook page will, who the does that mean? Who are you talking about right? Well, you in your mind in your marketing. You know what a what kind of interaction I you really yeah. Well, it's not the same. It's not a human to human interaction. The other weird thing my facebook, for me again, is how it compresses time. So it's like they're these people from like second and third grade on Finally, you know forty five. What right away from that and then it's like you know two weeks
so high, I'm mercy from second grade. It's like, oh, my god, I'd. Finally, I'd left that behind me is on Mars, I don't know who she is, who I was or who she relates to it's just. It was in the past firm. Right now and now it's here, but then on the front end, I've got the computer on the other side, calculating everything about my keystrokes. So do you know my future right? They know they know who's going to be. President is going to be. This could be that so it's like ok, so it was like my pass. Is all in here and now my which all in here and everything's, just sort of crushed in on me there? I don't feel I feel the Thomas anymore. I don't feel like I have agency, I don't feel I'm in charge. I can't get away from anything and I can actually be moving towards anything with a sense of free will, but can you mean it you you're sort of in control and have of how much interact with it? How much each right you get! That's why I I dropped Facebook, you dropped it yeah. I just like that too much yeah. Are you still used to order yeah
What would it it stays there? Why is Facebook problematic? Facebook is a problem that will real problem with Facebook is I'm not in charge of what I do on Facebook. Why? Right? Because Mark Zuckerburg can use me or my likeness in an ad of something I don't even know what it is getting, so you can't do that anymore than I thought. Oh really, he undid that yeah. I think that was something that wasn't supposed to happen. Supposedly, were they backtracked about that they do they go two steps forward. One step back two steps forward, one step back: it's sort of an ever evolving user agreement and where the part that I had gotten concerned about was you know, I'm on there is an author write. I'm on there by my book. With me. You know and like my ideas uhm, I can't do that. I can't solicit the likes of other people of readers of people who I'm supposedly uh advising about this stuff, especially about sort of media, ethics and integrity. I can't invite.
Them. To like my page, when that very active liking is making them vulnerable to marketing. That's going to be passing through me beyond my control. Yes, and no because they're also providing you with this excellent connection with all these people that's available to Facebook was not as women No and I'm willing to pay for the privilege to reach those people, but I'm not willing to have them and their likeness is used to represent things. I don't think that they understand that what liking makes someone vulnerable to you know. I don't think so. I mean in some sense this is patronizing. I guess what I'm saying is. I think I know stuff about this technology that they don't if they all knew really how this worked. If they all knew the implications of what they were doing then
I would say: let's let's go for it, but I definitely the worst consequences is what marketing they're going to be marketed to going to be represented, so their image would then be put on something, oh so, but no, I'm pretty sure that I'm one hundred percent no, they didn't. They drop that thing of using their photos in advertising and you're not going to profit they're not allowed to just take your photos in just Just got a photos. They know they're, not gonna. Do with your photos that what you're talking about generous or you talk about the the the photo of the photo thing they bought I'm talking about using, but for you were saying like using it for at sponsored sponsored stories and how they use people in a sponsored story, at least the day that I quit at
point it would nothing. You can turn it off, but yeah that that that that there's things like that that are on, but there's ways to turn my I'm not there. I'm I'm confused. There are, but with the lead, Ponsford story, but union people don't know, I feel like most people don't know and just to be there. It just didn't seem like, and it also because I so don't trust who they are and what they're, what they're about? I don't trust them as a company the way I want to trust the kinds of companies I like get bigger and bigger and, print deeper into my lives and eventually put probes in my brain and do not trust him, because Justin Timberlake played in a movie Let's play the other one, no visit the other. We played Sean pretty good guy. Now he played this map the my space story and how much of it is about coke and horse ever write this down, because I went out with those guys they just take that money and partly crazy. If you're going to take Facebook, if you're going to say I don't trust Facebook, you can't trust twitter, you can't trust, Google, you can't trust any of them.
No, but I'm am aware right now, I'm aware of the ways that Twitter is broadcast, I feel in control of how I'm tweeting tweeted delays. Almost worse, though, because they're actually to the point where you you try to go back in time. In your time like you can't they're they're cut their gets a cut off point where you can't download your own tweets. Unless know, the exact link they end up dumped in the end up giving you your history, I still can't do it online and that's the same with like Twitpic There are all these photo ones like some of them now you're, seeing so, which is ok. You're, saying that you want your. If you're going to do tweets, you want, in addition for your free free tweeting, you want them to maintain an archive of you and everyone else for our. I am I I personally. I personally don't have a problem with that. But what I'm saying is that that's kind of more ridiculous to me than Facebook, not I can't even access stuff that I've that
No, you can't save it or whatever the thing I'm concerned about. I mean this is what in the book I call it. Did your friend yeah. You know, I feel like the problem with with Digital, for most people is not this idea of information overload, there's too much stuff coming at them, but they They can't maintain more than one online persona. Simon Einius Lee that there's too many sort of individual instances of us and if you're going to have different instances of yourself, you know even your email inbox is, is an instance of a sort. If you're going to have all these different different things out there filling up or interacting, you want to be damn well sure that you're in charge of each one of them- and I don't feel I felt like facebook- was now doing things on my behalf was like one step of control. Will you make a very good point in that having more than one version of yourself becomes very problematic, especially if you're involved in any like real, I'm sure you probably interact with quite a few people every day, and do that on. Twitter's is knowledgeable. Do it to do it when you can, but
Is that a tutor and then have to hop over to Facebook to it's like? You should have one portal, no one pedal at least one. That's the one that it was always said you know 'cause, I don't really I didn't go to Facebook much then I go there and they'd be like some relative, if you know his at all, I just heard of your mom's passing is six months have gone by before I found that message in hand you know want to consult whatever it's it's just such a it's. For me, it was such an awful interface anyway that I was just losing losing stuff there, but yeah. It's I don't think it's just has to do with old. I get more at correspondence from other people, so I've got a I've got a limited more than others. I think it really has to do with well, if anything, it's at least on the canary in the cage for what's coming for everybody else I mean you know people in these to get one or two emails, and now it's just streaming in from but yeah. If you send me something on Facebook, I don't read, it is just to let everybody know because they pile up. I don't have time to
So I'm with you in a certain way. I still use Facebook to put up links, but it's connected to my twitter in a pretty cognizant of yes, when I put a tweet up on when I put a link up on Facebook and make sure it's short enough to fit into a tweet yeah with with the lead, at least with with Twitter. I mean you, you understand what you're putting out you put on. Is that a hundred forty things it went to your people and those words are out there right. It's like with with tool like Facebook. You don't really have the same, sense of of ownership over what's going and you don't have you don't actually have it right, your picture is used Douglas, went into Starbucks just now, yeah. I could turn it off, so everyone should turn it off.
So right! So again you know it's like. I feel like it's, it's a useful, it's a useful tool, but it's it's! It's just part of the trustworthiness of a good portion of the net yeah. Well, I can see that with someone else being control of the the the interaction and someone else being control, ultimately of like when you signed a user agreement, you have all this information. They just sort of put up online your,
you're, trusting it to them and then turned their marketing and to you I mean that's, that's it's really yeah clean relationship as long as they don't you, but yeah yeah. I mean there's a point at which you know I'm all I'll, let Netflix and I to whoever's in behind my tv remote I mean now. They know all that stuff right right, I mean I'll. Let them craft commercials around. That's like all. Almost all, except in this, in this little arrangement we have with this, is Alex stepped anything incoming. You know she, but don't use me for your outgoing yeah. There is once you're taking the person's identity than saying you know, Alice down the street like this a sit com to you should watch that and then my what I'm watching is getting broadcast to them or what they think I'd be watching. That's where it starts to be like, oh now, I'm being disembodied now, I'm being taken. I think so yeah it's it's a
Facebook is one of the most popular websites online and it's also one of the best ways to waste time, like you can waste a day easily, just looking up people that used to have sex with, and I just find them annoying when it's pitch up two. Oh, my goodness, look how fat she got. You could do that all day you good dude. All day and then the you know entertain and you're not getting done. That's right! It's like a the the. I tried to use twitter one of the things that I do with it is when and where, whenever someone sends you something fascinating in a link I retweeted, and because of that, you you become like a portal for cool and people know that if they send me cool all retreat, and so you get all this cool should just starts coming to you when you sort of have that idea and then, if you send it, they sent it to you and it becomes this really exponentially expanding thing where you know eat you be either
I have this like a radio channel or or like an information dump. What percent of the tweets that you get? Do you think you will pass on? It's not that high image, because it's not always here so much older well I'll- have to look at it. You know I mean if it's really interesting to look at it, but sometimes I'll say something like do. That's nonsense like what it did you see where this came from, like you read the link yeah. No, they built that is not big foot in that guy's Frederator shut the up and stop them if it's, but what that makes you reliable, a reliable filter. G yeah, you can't just retweet things, but I do read occasionally. If someone says something really preposterous, I will re tweeted just to see how people react. You know there's
Or if someone, if people get mad at me or retweet it just to see how they react? It's just it's just we live in strange time, yeah! It's! The twitter interface is a very bizarre one. The idea that you only give one hundred and forty characters and people abuse a shoot out of that. Sometimes people send me, like thirty tweets in a row like explaining. And to me like to stop now. You know it's out there, the June things like Snapchat he played with that. Are you know? What is that? The one where you you take a picture and it's like you can send it, but it dissolves in like three seconds or five all right, so sick of kids. Apparently I mean this is the dark secret kids are leaving Facebook. You know that the demographic the younger, like you know they are the sixteen- is right falling totally. Often there do things like Snapchat 'cause, they don't want, they don't want to be putting everything they're doing on their permanent record. I mean they finally kind of hectic and show someone there pushing only last for three minutes, and then you survive seconds. If you screenshot it done, then you save it on re upload it.
He knows, but if you screenshot it at least tells them that they've I mean so it's been defeated, but if you screen save it the at least the person who sent you. The thing knows that you did that they've they've given given that control but yeah, but just this quest for truly you know, Julie, Present based non archivable silliness, but you know which was when we were silly. We got to do here in the parking lot of the seven hundred and eleven is like, and there is no camera in the back either. It was really just happens. Instead of the seven hundred and eleven stays at seven hundred and eleven now it's like it's every single silly thing they did if they didn't post about at their friend posted about it. So it's still up there and it's like MS will be patched, and you know it better. Action to the side of the Parthenon, not only that, but the ideas behind what you can and can't do or enforce by these archaic laws that were written when none of this digital technology was avail
so because of that you get a lot of weird shit happens like there's. A one girl who got charged with child pornography could shape. She was sending photos of her naked body to boys in her class, and so the cops arrested her and charge this young girl. She was fifteen years old with child pornography. Sending pictures yeah me talk about losing the scripts, that's really losing the script for life, I mean that is yeah. That is the ninety should ever you're you, you found a child porn using pen right there. Now is the time to be a child yeah. It's like you know, exact zero tolerance, shun it doesn't matter if she's a child but dad it's it's her doesn't matter. Son she's been mastery, is victimizing exacerbations, rape, exactly Ngor, she's, feeding the dog Congress on. We need to discourage this in a big way: solitary confinement, yeah but it's really just a temporal lag. Hopefully yeah, you know, so I think that are lost and catch up or we I mean,
and also I mean in some sense the lack of privacy could help that along to it's like, if you know, if Google cameras finding like tens of thousands of people who just smoking joints in the street of every american city, you know at some point. They have to go. Ok, let's just let people other people smoke pot, let gays get married will say yes, except to smoke pot thing, there's money in enforcing it. Biggest issue more money in enforcing it should never be in in selling it now, but it would be two different people and I buy it from the hands of the people that are baked making money by keeping it illegal, whether it's the the price prison industry, whether it's the prison guards unions, whether it's different, pharmaceutical companies that would stand to lose profits when there's going to be a bunch of people that are trying to stop anything. Any change, especially changes in legality, because there's a big business in locking people up for, should, I know they're going to have to
eighteen, a an illegal population, to stay alive, they're going to have to rest more and more. If they're going to have corporate growth, yeah, greater greater percentage of America has to be in prison every single year until it's an asymptotic curve and there's like one guy left. That becomes a really interesting scenario if marijuana does become legal and you could trade on the future of marijuana, what the FUCK commander wanted does have it. There are some stocks that are marijuana stocks, really yeah, that people trade. How is that possible, whether the companies that I guess that I've already laid out a marijuana strategy or or they're ready for it? Look at that percentage of the US prison population that are nonviolent drug offenders in the nineteen eighty then in two thousand and twelve percent, and then two thousand and twelve twenty five percent yeah the war on drugs, folks, they're winning more people are in jail
I guess is that gonna winning an unknown funds. We have a private prison system, it's good for the economy. The whole thing is bananas. It's just the the fact that in this day and age, you still can't make a logical argument as to why certain things are legal and illegal, certain things that are legal which are devastating to your house and then, when you find out that information's been withheld and that companies may have noone known about certain risks, no one seems to go to jail. If anything happens, people get find a little bit, but if that was an individual person that did that, oh, my God, there would be a horrible human being, a personal person. One person is responsible for all the deaths that came from aspirin alone. You would want read: what's why there's some there's some ways to get more conscious of it, though, because it's all of us right, it's all of us who are part of that system or owning that corporation and
shareholders or whatever, and these things they come. If you were seen as slavery, foot print dot org. Now it's a for the fun website. You got to do it when you're feeling good about yourself that what it does is you you put in everything that you own. If you have a car or not, we live in this and that and it calculates how many slaves in for Keith. Over right now, God in like with like never getting that yeah getting the molybdenum for your Iphone or whatever it is, you know losing their fingers and I'm gonna build thing: molybdenum, molybdenum, molybdenum, yeah, it's a metal. Is it rare, rare metal wow. I never hold that one. I've just recently heard of coltan, that's the stuff that they get in.
Go for so yeah, something that's really good for that matter. Is it connected yeah yeah, something to do with electronic? I am connected with in the use of our cell phones, it's so I've. I've found it to be so bizarre and one of the more bizarre things in life that the most complex stuff that we use like cell phones or computers, that the The base of it, the origins early. This mine, is a whole yeah around what is a minor but there's also human suffering. Yet just why I don't like the idea that my computer, which could really do everything I needed to do, is rendered obsolete by change an operating systems that really are unnecessary except to sell another computer. You know the the difference does not, but are they necessary because they're trying to continue to improve the product in the can
you need to add more functionality, and I stopped believing that at least the rate at which they do. I sometimes feel like there's a amid used to be sort of windows and intel that you know win, doesn't make a complex operating system so that you have to get the next Intel chip and then Intel would would create a tweak on that. That makes you need. The next You know the next windows operating system, that sort of would leapfrog each other, and it feels like that with yeah. You know your your yeah, your Iphone is better things now then three iphones ago, but what about all these iphones in the garb in all these people lost all this stuff. They do not a time compressed into one of these. One of these devices is really intense. You know that that at least one of our our goals when we're developing new technologies and new technology pathway should be well what's the one going to actually require the sales of the least of the fewest amount of computers. I don't know people at Apple are going. How could we so? How could we need to sell?
computer? So that way you know people don't have to throw out these old ones. Have you seen those photos of Cuba of the old cars yeah? Cuba doesn't get new cars, they have car, like the fifth yeah, the center also seasoning yeah, but a lot of them are gorgeous yeah, the beautiful, but they do drive like that's the problem. If you drive like a modern day B M w, and then you go back to all those stupid Chevys from the, eighteen fifties, those things are dog show, really they break terrible. They they handle like a horse on roller skates, the ridiculous cars there so stupid, seven, had to be thrown into rebel without a cause today, and you happen in that car, it would not be that it wouldn't be the experience we're thinking their dogs they're terrible? You could with a Prius, you could easily get away from some guy in a fifty five chevy there's no way he keep up this, like those things are terrible. They can't take corners the brain This is stupid. Drum brakes, I mean they might as well have a rock that you throw out that's attached to a rope to
your car's tell you take a you. Take a fifty seven t bird over and over to segue yeah, yes over, but just because it could rain okay, but I like the idea that you know they've managed to recycle these cars and keep them working in right, keep them running and it's it's really cool to see. He'd aesthetically, it's beautiful! It's gorgeous and you see a and a modern street in this day and age, and you see these beautiful like and you can tell they're proud people because he's a shiny cars. I mean they're they're painted nice and they're done well in their restored well or,
these maintained. Well, I mean I don't know how many miles some of these cars have on them, but not there, they do look. It does look amazing. I know in there is that you know I feel like there's a a hunger for stuff, not just fifties, but also sort of sixties madmen period that the nurse dowager for that is that's right before this digital age started. That's like the height of the tv agents. You know putting satellites in space. That was that in a sense you know you know it's funny, because people look at these kind of shows and all you know aren't they. You know it's about it's about their. You know Dickinson!
not their innocence. No, they believe in there. They got. You know. What's that you know when you look around la it's like everybody's got, he would weak field in their house and trying to get this old g e fridge raiders with the sort of ground it covers. No there's that longing for I thank the industrial age just feels so real. You know it's a solid when people made stuff, you know it wasn't just kind of printed right, yeah, there's that that also like, when you see those cars just like such a human element and that old stuff, like even like sixties muscle cars like those are sort of like human created works of art, as opposed to you know, you look at like a new Mazda or something like that. A real modern car- and they look, looks like something that just like came out of a machine. They screwed to there. It came out of the machine. You look like a sixty. Nine chevy doesn't like it note, Chevy Camaro Six and I come out. That's that's some somebody screwed together, there's some men working behind that there's some people put tires on on the wheel and bolted right place here,
some guys who work some ranches is no doubt about it. You look at that thing. That's a mechanical creation, it's not a computer creation and we're slowly moving towards the previous and I'm I'm fine with computer creation is static. If It means that we don't have to work right. You know, but it's like they didn't it's like, so they get rid of all these guys this screw it in the the screws and it's like so they just then let them stay. Their house is located. In fact, they end up. You know this guys up to pick up exactly They had exactly you know, that's the whole thing terror which, like so now, we have a big problem in America. Is unemployment and right with the house of my getting jobs, jobs, jobs for people who wants a job? I don't want a job, you don't judge people, don't want jobs, people. The stuff that you get when you have a job. They want the money that you get for having a job, but they don't want the jobs right. So meanwhile, though, we've got more than enough stuff,
burning food every week, so keep market prices high were tearing down. Bank of America is tearing down houses in California because they're in foreclosure. You can't just let someone live in it. It's going to bring prices down down. They tear him down. Why did the term down? Because there would have to sell at distressed prices that would then lower prices of other properties. They're trying to keep up well, it would cost them more if you own ten house in a town and one isn't going to sell you, tear it down, then right and if the Bank comes along and create some sort of a program to give houses to needy people. Then It's going to lower the real estate values of the of the mortgage is that they've invested in that are already teetering, so they can't do that, so charity itself becomes unprofitable. Well, it's
I've been quite profitable. That's like Westchester deductible. What? If we figured out that? Ok, we only need, rather than having everybody work. Forty hour weeks, which is based on a clock of the industrial age. How much can we have people working at weekend? What, if people, don't really have to work that much for us to have everything we want? But what? If ten percent of people could work two days a week and we get everything went so you go in you. Do your work, I'm going to do my work in April, two thousand and seven. You know when I'm go again in March. What? If it got that you really didn't, need everybody working all the time for everybody to have stuff. We couldn't deal with that, not because we don't of technologies to do that. We can't deal with it because we don't have an economy. We don't know how to divvy up the spoils. You're. The reason that you have a job is so that you can be entitled to a share of what's actually them in abundance, but because there's not enough job our people. We got to rip up stuff and Bruce stuff. That's in abundance right! You know this. Is we can't give it out? There's also the social issue of not having jobs when people don't feel like they've.
Made their own way or pulled their own weight. They feel on what they feel right. Well. That's why you got it so wellfare yeah, but you gotta, replace employment. You know with work and employment is a new invention, employee, again industrial age we used to work for each other and ourselves, we only got jobs and we got the clock. When we could work on the clock, then we're employed are you, but we don't have to be employed in order to work in order to have meaning. If you don't have to have your job, you don't stop. You just have to find a new niche into the system. If I have to find- a set! A new saying! Are you waiting in tribute to your to the world yeah? I completely agree with that that too many people find sort of a existing way to and around and they don't create their own way to interact, and in doing so you are, sometimes miss on one of the best things which is accomplishing things accomplishing starting your own restaurant and keeping it open in in or you having a car
shop that only fixes a certain type of automobile that you really love to work on. You know when you can figure out a way to something the you actually have a passion for. It's like that, the the old cliche it stops becoming work it just it becomes your easy. You don't really have a job. You have a thing that you love right in urine flow, how many people have that? Well as promenade, you can't have it in this economy. You can have it. When you have this kind of education system, you can have it. What about just a real, naturally dull people that need to be pushed. It is very poor. Well yeah, but you know so not everyone has to be the one that figures out how to do. The new method of bio, Dynamic, Rudolf, Steiner, farm, on their organic community supported agriculture plant? Someone can just go there and plant plant. Carrots. Also, the issue of how human beings are raised in the first place, which is so huge and not really addressed
the reason why some of these people fall into these mindless jobs is 'cause. Never along the line of they've been stimulated, never online by their family by the school systems, by their environment by their atmosphere by their you know, the fellow knuckleheads in their community they're, all just surrounded by people who are either like minded or less you know or support it. There you kinda fucked and then, when something comes along that eliminates that job for that guy, that robot job when he was forty five years old or fifty years old, he has to start again and sort of reignite, some sort of passion and curiosity or die off like a dinosaur and it's hard to 'cause. He was like in the thing you did you know if it's a toll, collector right, you know and you get better and better at it, and then you start. You know, then test to see how many people you can make eye contact with when you're getting the tolls and how many lives can you change with that? I mean gosh. You can be that you could leave the Bodhi Sattva life as a toll collector know they take that away from him and it's not just that. He can't be retrained
he doesn't have motivation. I mean it's not that it's not his fault, that they broke his heart. They should have a show where guys a toll, collector and just see how he interacts with people and then given projects like today, you're just going to casually mention your penis and let's see the people freak out back to your reality, roots yeah very funny, do do. Do you have to do a toll collector how to do it pretty fast yeah? Well, it's uncertain mdf, a weird way to experiment how people interact when they don't have to it's really quick. You know how many people treat you like how you doing. What's going on everything cool. Alright man take care, you're going to get a broad variety for the way people interact. I think that we kind of finding it wouldn't like hold up as a series right.
Maybe as as a one hour special special, the toll guy yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, I just have a guy- would send you have. We have to do like you break it. Up with Michael will sit down, yeah those chairs and then have a discussion about the last couple ones that we seen what it really means. People love that fast track thing. Now, though, they won't going to pay a toll, they want a political thing and they just go through like New York is one of the weirdest scenarios ever because somewhere along the line, they just decided to make people pay to get to the city. It used to be that they were paying to get the bridge built, but they that fucking thing off a long time ago? Every bridge got paid off along time ago, but the revenue so intoxicating. They just kept with it. We can first and then California 'cause. We don't really have a place. We could get anywhere, those bridges were built, but now they got it all be rebuilt. They rebuilt the understanding, Hudson Bridge they were building it building and building and by the time they finish, they had to stay
rebuilding it again. It was just that many years to reason Well, that's nonsense. The the big one is is the dumbest way to make traffic. You have spot where everyone has to stop on the way into the city that is so stupid when you are going. From Long Island to Manhattan. That is the most maddening shit to do at eight hundred and thirty. In the morning you want to fucking, kill because it's so stupid you're, maybe any stop your little box. You should make will pay either either you could justify the the of the bridge, the maintaining of the bridge, but they should pay for it through their taxes, and that There shouldn't be a spot. We have to stop because that's fucking dumb. The only reason why you would want to do. That is what I checked: cars for bombs or ninety people. Who are you just trying to discourage yeah? Well, I maybe try fire mentalist trying to discourage get people on to Lirr and do rapid transit the way God intended and discourage people from coming into the city, because the easier it is
in the more this traffic sucks. It sucks already, it's terrible make it and then charge for making it not suck Is this your name twenty dollars that you can't fix the suck. That way, because I think more luck, twenty dollars will give you the green light. Do you live in Manhattan? Now? Do you live? I live in New York LIVE in Westchester County. I lived in New Rochelle for a little bit. Yeah yeah he's dings on Hudson yeah. It's some! That's a that's a beautiful area! That's nice that hold the Westchester's get some night spots yeah it does it's a little snooty, some of it. So there's couple of towns in Westchester. That kind of retain some yeah. Listen to reality. It's not just Westchester is weird. It is, though, you'll be in a neighborhood where you're seeing these mansions with these giant lawns and then you'll go half a mile and you're in the project,
well, it's not project so much little more Jersey, Jersey, ask if you drive through the orange. Is that it really you get that sense. I mean most of West Chester's, pretty pretty affluent at this point you know, but you know It is not as affluent as Manhattan, it is the most affluent and well right. Well, yeah I mean you you for your insight, Bloomberg's, well, if you made it in there somehow you know when you, when an apartment was a million you've got ten million dollars of real estate or something. But You know anywhere else didn't quite as not quite that those places are madness. Those multimillion dollar apartments alike this. Way of living in a big city like that is so alien is only exists in Manhattan where you have so many people living in apartments and it creates it's a different community and in the sense it's more connected than than LOS Angelus is who it is. I mean most things about, it are,
more consonant with our era in our digital economy and all that it's a better carbon footprint to stack people up like that that they have everybody having long and fertilizer and whatever else they get in the suburbs. So I mean it's it's it's good on on most of those levels, it just New York itself is so crazy, expensive. You know through God knows what sort of realistic shenanigans are done. That's what sort of then for me colors, the the experience of of you know urban joy there Unisom, no one is an artist or are you know, writer, regular of regular means could live there, yeah! That's where you guys really crazy.
We see. A small apartment is like three thousand bucks a month, the like okay, that's just nuts. That means a guy makes fifty thousand dollars a year has to give up three quarters of his income to pay is rat nuts right, so it's safe. I mean I don't know if you need crime to it, to make it better, but you know you go back to that that the era of you know by ski odd. You know he couldn't live in in Manhattan. Now you know none of that. None of the folks from then or the room. Bones or well. They were queens actually but war Hall or any of his. You remember 42Nd, ST the real but that's the thing though it's like exhausted was Chris.
No, it was you know it was awful terrifying yeah. It was terrifying and yeah. There's certain some part that waxes nostalgic, but that's not a good old days that you really want to return to either it's just like. How can you have a New York that works, an is still artistic and alive and vibrant infertile and not have people? You know getting stabbed in the subways yeah? And how can you have so many rich people living together because you have to be rich to live there? I mean it's really difficult to pull off living in Manhattan. If you don't have
at least you know of of upper middle class income. So yeah, it's a strange, strange place, unlike any place in this country. You know, there's no place in the country, it's so over valued and get a decent apartment in San Francisco for half of what you'd spend an apartment in Manhattan. Think of the San Francisco knows gotten worse something yeah one of those lists. Well, the worst there's some places outside of San Francisco, the Regis and saying like we're near Stanford. They have, I think it's called answered in the highest real state in the country, and you you look at these people that I know have this house of their Is it set at an acre and a half is worth fifteen million dollars? Thank you look. It was I was like. What are you talking about, doesn't make any sense, but it's like everybody in that neighborhood is all they're all tech people they all they'll, make insane amounts of money in the various tech bubbles and booms over the years and all that Google monies up there.
All that apple monies up there and there's just a lot of fucking people that have incredible amounts of cash up there. So Realestate they need houses. This is where they live. So real estate is through the fucking roof right. You will look, you look at like I I enjoy doing that sometimes like could I live in Phoenix? Let's see what you know, what the neighborhoods are like in Phoenix and I'll go. Look at real estate in Phoenix for a goof. You look in Atherton an what's. Eleven million dollars like get the fuck outta here dollars. They be bike. Distance from Facebook or yeah. Is easing bubble of of money in this strange one of really strange one, because
and you go a mile over and we stopped at this Wendy's and was like a really sketchy. Wendy's agreement like this place, is kind of dirt bag, Ishe to be a mile away from a fifteen million dollar house like it's so strange. Well, there's no middle anymore yeah, that's sort of got the! I got spun out in the in the spin cycle at the end of the yeah this industrial age here. Well, I would be chance, it is none, but I mean the certain, certainly a diminished. Very
yeah very little, but you know like you're saying now, if, if the, if that lower ninety eight percent or ninety nine percent, whatever it is, gets fed up enough it'll network with itself rather than trying to get some down from the top Sonny was set up, it seems like we only act when for staff yeah, we we need a desperation, we need. You know we need to have no options, and then we move into this new stage of understanding what the the real problem- yeah. Yes, but that's and that's different and again that's that's. The whole point of of being in the present of present ism is that, instead of going on some long marks on some other twentieth century movement or this eyes on the prize and just the means justify the means battle to the future thing we go screw of that. We just want it now we're going to just do it, that's what was so encouraging about the Occupy movement,
Thank you for your demands. We want from us, we want from you, you know, say we're not going to state our demands. We're gonna actually do this thing. You know and that's where you get to what thing, though they were the real. It was right. I can try to occupy the world in which we live. I look I liked in the Occupy movement to white blood cells like they recognized as an issue, and they gather around it. And you know it's like it calls it into the issue and you know there, but they. They're gathering around A6 six spot. I mean that they know there's something wrong here and so everybody's like this is a spot
so going down right there right and then they try to educate. They do teach ends and learn about stuff. A lot of lot of people know more about these issues now than it did before, and they see it as a super long term project I mean this year. They did occupy debt and the debt jubilee. So what they're doing is buying pennies on the dollar, the debt of people like you've got health bills. They can't pay and all that 'cause it's just owned by credit companies, so they buy their debt and just believe it wow. So it's kind of cool if they take ten dollars and believe like one thousand bucks a debt and it's well worth it. That's interesting, that's a great idea and I think that's a great commute.
The idea that there's a lot of people out there that have a spare five dollars or spare ten dollars. We don't even think about it, but if you get enough of those people, you can enact some real change wheel in really help people. What do you think is like what what is the best way besides podcasting besides books and besides having actual conversations with people where you explore these ideas? What is what is the best way to get people to understand that true, happy Nis really does come from a sense of community. One of the interviews that I saw with you. You were talking about your youth and you were talking about living in a place where you all shared a large backyard and it became sort of a community thing where everybody would get together and have like a barbie yeah, and that was it so yeah, so full of thin queens, and we had. It was like one barbecue pit at the end of the block that was just on all weekend, so We were lower middle class. My dad got a better job. We leave queens, we go to
which month Scarsdale is you know these westchester towns yeah? And it's like you, don't barbecue with the Joneses anymore, you barbecue against the Joneses like every single family. Got its own like three hundred our Weber grill in the backyard and no would think you know You can invite someone over, I suppose, but it's not that barbecueing was this solo family activity, an I was thinking about as far as the grill companies concern that's better I'd, rather everyone have a grill and nobody grill together, because then they get to sell more grills. You know, but it's like I've looked in my uh, not the neighborhood, I'm in now, but never I almost went to it's like everybody on the block had a snow blower and I'm thinking that's really weird, just like ten houses with ten snow blowers. How many How much do you need for driveway? It's like that? Every two houses share one river how's. The share one
but if you want to just get up in the morning- and you don't want to talk to Mister Johnson's here and use the snow blower first 'cause- you gotta be at work at seven hundred and thirty Talk to Mister Johnson is the thing: is a dish bag, maybe yeah? Maybe you should be able to have your own snow blower. Maybe the reason he's a douche douche baggy, is working overtime to save up for that Guy Dan Snow blower, easily right, yeah? Well, there's not a lot of people that are happy out. There is the rose quote that most men lead lives of desperation yeah today, loud desperation and Marshall. Mcluhan's quote that humans are the sex organs of the machine world, and that has this desire to keep up with the Joneses
for those Weber grills, you know as the disconnect you know. I walk in a room now and I feel it feels different when I see people sitting on their devices are used to walk into a room with a bunch of guys. You walk in here and if you guys have devices, but you can feel the family, you can feel you guys are on a on an animal level in touch with each other's by right on whatever that subtle level is, and I going to rooms now and I don't feel the same group dynamic Group presents that I used even teaching a class. You know twenty years ago versus going into one today when everybody's you know, x, we'd what's going on in there. It's just a different. I'm not saying it's worse, although I think it's worse a qualitatively different experience. They have more choice over they do. They can divide their attention the way they want. They have more of any over all these things, but they're losing, and maybe it's out They are on the net somewhere, maybe by the time we're in the great great second life. We reconnect but they're missing a certain subtle animal contact that we don't yet fully understand,
Maybe it just needs to be mitigated like. Maybe we need to just understand an explore, like the ethics of when two Ann, not to use cell phones when two and not to connect and encourage more connection. Let people know that, like look, that is an impulse just like washing your hands to my gym, just like there's so there's a like a lack of satisfaction in the satisfying or the the completion of that impulse, the the check. Yet what are you check it? check it again. What are you getting out of that? Why why not pay attention to the person who's front of you you're doing it to like an at
SEN washes their hands and yeah I mean that's the whole point. That's the whole reason I write in my books are the book before this was good programmer be programmed, and the idea was just to give people sort of the ten biases of digital media like they're, really good for doing things far away, they're, not good for doing things with someone in the same room. You know because they're they're, you know it's really simple stuff like that. This time idea you know that's, which is that digital technologies asynchronous it doesn't live in time. So don't you try to keep up with it, because it's not in your temporal university in its own, you know, and you can make it conform to yours, but certainly don't run and chase it. It's that it's kind of it's it's at this point it's education. It's just having the conversation, letting people I I I'm that's the whole thing. If they become more aware than you know, then they stand.
I certainly think a lot of these things is sort of snuck up on us and we could all do with a lesson or at least an idea of how to manage them more write more humanely exactly and the trick is for people not to see- and this is my whole thing not to see the messenger of this as the one who sang all this stuff, so bad so the children are turning more violent. You know that whole kind of yes, Ishe hand, wringing thing that so many writers are out there. Like? Are you for technology against it? You forward or against it? You know, and if you're not just going yeah yeah yeah go business, they think you're against it, and it's like no, no I'm four technology, I'm just against the way we're happy be using it right now, so I don't think there's any. I don't think it's a coincidence that people are. I think, fundamentally, less happy. Now I think I have been in a long time if you look at the amount of people that are on medication, for happiness,
really what it is and, if you're on an antidepressant, essentially you're on a medication for happiness, whether or not that's because of a chemical imbalance that you suffer from or because the fact that your job sucks in your life sucks- and you just you- just filled with suck every day, and you responded that well for whatever it is. If you look at those numbers, one or two things is happening, probably both one we're getting fucked over by these pharmaceutical companies and get unethical doctors to prescribe that shit with impunity. There's that for sure, but then there's also like people are not connected to this world. They don't they don't feel whole it'll feel sad if you're in great pain, it's better to only be in moderate pain or mild pain. If you can take a pill, I mean, what's hard to do, is to get people to go. Oh well. Actually, that pain is is kind of a good sign, because it means we all need to kind of work here to change it change the way the world is an and action? The pain is,
trying to get you to change the pain is trying to get you to avoid the pain, an you should use your logic to say: what's causing this pain with there's a disconnect, I'm not I'm, not! I'm not. Emotionally satisfied, I'm not connecting with my fellow humans, I'm missing something right. Unless you're up against the wall and there's nothing, you can do to change your circumstances, in which case you're going to take. Hello. Well, you know it's it's it's! That's the that's the danger there, but I do think the more people can start to get in touch. No for me, it's these rhythms. You know the rhythms of life. You know the twenty eight day lunar cycle in the fact that each week of a lunar cycle, your neurotransmitters change right. So you have an acetyl choline week, followed by a serotonin week, filed by a dopamine we followed by norepinephrine week. Every month is one baboon, but But if you know that you like this is the dopamine week, that's why I feel like this or I'm getting strangely Allen when it's a dopamine, we know now when you go to it actually is a website so much space, dot org that he's got it. He,
got it laid out. There was originally was an olympic trainers, Irving Dardic, who figure this stuff out. He was a during a exercising people different times of the day in different parts of the month, and they you know they've been looking at by you know about logical clocks for many years ever since that you know major league baseball, pretty much discovered jet lag that people, you know, get more jet lag when they travel West to east to West. They realize all these clocks are not folklore, there's actually something going on here, so the circadian rhythms for the day and the night, but there's also all these other rhythms controlled by different. You know, you know whether or not tropical features in traveling, like that really does with those rhythms right, yeah yep, but as people get in touch with them, I think it could help us. You know get out of some of these. You know Druga drug relationships that we're having you know every taking drugs in order to compensate for the shifting Europe Neuro transmitter
because we're trying to be on all the time, you know I'm in sales, so I got to be in sales when I'm in dopamine week or in serotonin week. No, that's that's hard. What is also the the arrogance of the human mind to think that they can manipulate the hue in mind, yeah human mind. Don't like I like how things are running here, I am going to take over the running of me- and I'm going to invent some shit. That makes me run more to my liking. I'd rather just be ok with everything I want to be high all the time and ok with everything. Ok, can you get that and then one day they're going to get what you feel like when you're on ecstasy? And it's going to be keep it all day, just beyond see all day enjoying the world. Wow I've never seen this guy. This color blue are going to have to have those. Now they don't. Let you genuinely have those drugs, because when, if you're as high as you aren't ecstasy or as high as you are in pot- and then you start figuring and then you start unwinding that relationship and becoming less dependent on snap
you could yeah, I mean even just a shift in the levels of things and the approach to things gives you. Oh, this is a new consciousness space here, I'm here for whether it's a brief moment or a long drawn out crazy trip right anyway, that's different than the sort sort of palliative care of of you know of pharmaceuticals, sure yeah yeah that dad does the exact. Opposite is true, the ones that are available that you could buy in a regular basis for the ones that bring you closer to the hive, drone exactly like slow, your own drug yeah. Just to let you accept more and take more. Even you know caffeine and alcohol in our search. You know easier, then, to tolerate the one. It's interesting that sort of this plane both sides of that of the field there is, after all, I mean because they do use it to control little kids. You had a routes like Ritalin. It's one of these at t drugs that keeps us kids from you know, acting out of a different class, but also the chemical just taking it for a you know to right to radio or to get that kind of
thank you for it right, I've never with it, but the people that I know that have said it does add the kind of campers creativity right. I guess I guess it's more for a smoke a speedy, yet cramming for a test. Yeah, yeah you're, getting work done, organizing, like my friend Robert Schimmel, rest, his soul. He he accidentally took it once and he had heart issues. It was kind of crazy story. He he picked up the wrong Peligro someone else's prescription and in and took an adder all the calls doctors like what, in my in trouble, my ski I'm scared out of his heart condition. The guys like you're gonna, be fine yeah, we find you, skinny gonna, be you're, going to be doing a lot of things over the next few hours. Just accept that so he takes any said. He starts fucking, organizing his office and he sat down in front of his notes and he said I got more work done never gotten before, but well, yes to that's, why they call it speed right, but it is
it's a great, it's a price yeah, it's the ultimate industrial age, drug. I guess 'cause it. It makes you more productive, more efficient. I've got quite a few friends. We've had an issue with it. Several you know a good friend, very smart guy who just went it just got off of it, and you know he went crazy with it like several months and he was, starting up a business and working in the tech company and there's a lot of hours and it just It took a little adderall help along the way, and next thing you know he knew that roller yeah yeah. They do say this to sort of, I think speed. Long term speed uses the closest they can model schizophrenia with drugs, and you know if you've been on speed. Freak for a really long time who you get way closer than with any you know, psychedelic or something yeah I told bull and it just seems like it's ready allies. Your system, yeah, Lindsay Lohan's plea deal one string attached. I want my adderall is a TMZ yeah, it seems she's. You know, she's a lesbian that like prison,
or that rehab for the next. Whatever six thousand and ninety days is she's trying to get a plea deal, so she can get Adderall and wait a minute they're putting her in jail again yeah. But for this time uh. I think it was for hit and run back in twenty ten or something like that. I can't remember I've there's another weird aspect of our new society that children become famous. You know what that means mean back in a Shirley Temple days. The inventor yeah. There was a group of us yeah yeah who would have ever thought that you would get a person like a Lindsay. Lo Han, we raise them from the time, their child and they never know anonymity and just Is this long to escape everyday longing to get Fuckd up and just drift away in a drunken stupor and not have to think about it? Yeah and they can't leave it as the think they're also elected to it.
And if you do leave it, it's almost worse tube in a has been than to be a never was and never was used. First walked on the street. You never go all over that loser. He was never fans he just because there's a guy, so I tell you that there's it reminds you do. Is this moment that I still don't know exactly how I feel about it when they did the they did the Brady Bunch Reunion, like ten years after the show, whatever twenty years and Jan didn't show up, they had a different girl for Jan and I was like kill you go girl. In other words, she broke free. She when we moved on yeah there there's she probably Eve plans, probably got you know all this crap for not going in a lot of people, probably thought because she's, probably too screwed up or some problem whatever and I'm like. No, you know you. When you went into the future, you know and you're, not gonna, let that just you know, define you no matter what yeah or she wanted money and they wouldn't give it to him. Yeah. Who knows who knows?
I know, dad's media is good for projecting, there's something very sad about people that live completely in the past, like if you were on a show in the 1970s and you're still going to those autograph signing things and tired. I heard that who is it Barbara Eden on the radio? You know I dream of Jeannie yeah, and I was thinking man it's one of those one of those things or Barbara Eden also was in a time where you didn't make money like you didn't get that resist. The staff time more people are still selling. I dream of Jeannie let's bounce yeah, but no need it, she didn't get a single slice back in those Gilligan's island days. Those guys didn't make any money. They they got. Fucked over Gilligan's island days was the you know back
back in the day, they never knew about like syndication, they didn't have any idea. Things are going to be worth so much money and then in a digital form, forever yeah, it's pretty Fuct up dude. I was supposed to be at my next thing by now: whoops, it's like five hundred and thirteen. How long is or is this I guess a lot of the early we'll just go just go. We go down to the whole thing: yeah we never go for more than three hours. You have to leaves as are supposed to go. Are you going next? What is it? I mean I've already missed thirteen minutes of it. Now I can answer these apologized yeah Jason Calacanis. He does this conference called launch what is, and it's like Silicon Valley, on ship raineri. What's going to happen next in technology, so it's eleven interview or hard cast, then another podcast Noah Video Podcast. Well, this is too, but that's like only like. You click on the thing for a digital theorist here in a bit
what numbers went from now and thank you and then Richard Metzger he does it dangerous, dangerous minds website it's really difficult for you would like it if you would like it he's local, just a great he's disinfo. He invented ok that whole website. Oh, he did ok, well Matt Matt, Staggs yeah he's on distant from yeah. That's how I know him from all right, so you can get the out here. I do do this was done in an awesome conversation really fun yeah, it's great to meet you great to me too. Thank you very much for coming on and people. Please go pick up his book. It's called future. She present shock when everything happens now right, so yeah available now Is it available on audible, dot com? They just did the company that just emailed but they want to do the they wanted. Well, we went to the audio books better yeah, that's right! It's crazy! That's not! It needs to be done right, automatically, go, get it
get on it, but you could get it right now on Amazon dot com, your website, Douglas Rushkoff, DOT, com, Russ, Gough, DOT, com, yeah thanks very much bye. Thank you. A lot of fun to meet you. Thank as to the sponsors of the podcast thanks to audible com. If you go to autobowl dot com, Slash Joe, you can get one free audiobook, an thirty free days of auto. All service thanks also to stamps dot com, and if you click on the link on stamps dot, com and use the code J, you get a special offer. No risk trial, plus one hundred ten dollars bonus, offer including a digital scale that you should not use for illegal purposes. Thanks also to Hoverhover hover, dot com would slash what does it Rogan or something I have too many fucking? I know you can take it all this chain yeah. I should, but I don't have control that shit. However, dot com forward
which Rogan Code there get ten percent off your domain name registrations and they give you a free shift like who is domain name privacy and there are and thanks also to audit dot com go to Onnit. And if you use a code name Rogan, you save yourself, ten percent off any of our awesome supplements are folks, that's it! For the week I got shit to do. Yo busy. I got laughing Hampton Inn and uh next week is going to be a little sketch 'cause I'm on the road for most of the week, so we might bang out one only next week try to get through it. This is all temporary and we love the fuck out of dirty benches. Right. So we see you soon. Oh Indianapolis, this weekend, Saturday night April. Sixth, Indianapolis with Tony Hinchcliffe and if you've seen my live at the Tabernacle special available for five bucks on Joe Rogan DOT net right now this set. Is One hundred said no there's nothing from that on any of the shows.
Answer. All these people's questions, if you should, I go see you if I just bought the special it's all new shared. I got an hour and twenty minutes now of all new ship them actually happier with it than my last bus also picked up, because you have a thing that Kemper this week, we're gonna have some good podcast. So if you are a year like freaking out needing a podcast vega in July on Thursday excellence, Reggie Watts. Tonight, excellence, yeah, Penn, Jillette, awesome, that's great you're going to do it. He in town yeah, I think just he's in town one day Wow he's awesome, he's a great talk or two that I will go on and on and on, and I think we have cheats and Chong next week to help out Cheech and Chong together. Interesting all right, Douglas Rushkoff please, gentlemen. Thank you. Everybody will see you soon,
Transcript generated on 2019-11-20.