« The Joe Rogan Experience

#417 - Graham Hancock

2013-11-13 | 🔗
Graham Hancock is an English author and journalist, well known for books such as "Fingerprints Of The Gods" & "Entangled" and also a new fiction book called "War God"
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
hello freaks were life took awhile but we're here this episode of the drone experience is brought to you by carbonite earlier that i'm consistent carbonite is a way to backup your files online automatically without you even have to thinking about have to thinking about having to think about it more people working from laptops today giving them mobility and flexibility and in fact sixty percent of workers use laptops as their primary work computer but future disasters can happen anytime and anywhere affecting not only your business files but possibly even every computer operates in your business that's why you need carbonite online backup on laptops can be especially especially that's george bush says it especially vulnerable
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tom and the offer code is jre will also brought to you by audible dot com audible dot com is the leading audio provider on the internet with over one hundred and fifty thousand titles it is a beautiful service i love it i'm a huge fan they have audio books they have pod as they have comedy downloads they have the opie and anthony show as many graham hancock books on audible dot com yes yeah entangled my first novel first novel and the second one is war god is oh god or god and war god is that an audible yeah it's not an audible yes but we're working on it get right audible jesus luiza's get crackin an entangled is uh one of the fictional works of mister hancock and we're going to talk about that we're going to talk about all kinds of shit in a minute if you go to auto dot com forward slash joe you will get a free audiobook
thirty free days of audible service a service i personally use i'm a huge fan of audible and labeled podcasts and stand up comedy for a long time some i'm a fan of them just for for what do and also for the product itself is outstanding it's just an amazing selection and i'm just a huge fan of using audible books and their service for anytime i'm commuting anytime i'm on a plane it's just it's a great thing to call you mine and actually entertain you when you would ordinarily be bored it's a fantastic service so it's audible dot com forward slash joe get your free audio book and get hooked on audible i know you will love it we're also brought to you by on it dot com that's and and i t if you haven't been to on it for a while we have a lot new products including the zombie kettle bells the primal bells which are all apes
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workout with him just like a regular kettlebell they just look more awesome we sell all sorts of other things that on including supplements hemp protein we blenders blendtec blenders for making protein shakes and kale shakes we sell fitness equipment dv these we sell books on nutrition himalayan sea salt you name it if it's good for your body we sell it on it what we call on it is a total human optimization website that's what the company strives to provide you with all the things that you need to optimize your mind your body your immune system your cognitive function so on and so forth and if you on a dot com and use the code name rogan that's and and i t dot com code name rogan will save you ten percent off any and all supplements all right without any further ado the great graham hancock is here and i'm
sorry talk to serve the gel filled in experience ladies and gentlemen graham hancock world wind tore across nations for many months and you're finally here in november two thousand and thirteen today's date is the 13th we've done even rocketed hearts and september i have been on the road since the second day of september between and betwixt i've had maybe like five days at home but the rest of i've been traveling i've been let's see i've been in turkey i've been all over turkey amazing country my first ever visit to turkey did you go to to go back later i went to go babies happy i spent more than a week and go back to tempe i met a clash smit
is the actually rather decent german archaeologist whose excavating go beckley tempe are very rarely get on with archaeologists but i got on with class smith i don't think he knew who i was but but somehow he was charming and he gave us a lot of access to the site he let santa get right in amongst the pillars and photograph them and i'm so over there and then took the opportunity of being in turkey to travel over a lot of the rest of the country there's some cool stuff there there's like what they call underground cities which go down eight hundred and ten stories under the under the earth the idea was that people built them to hide from their enemies but in my opinion the last thing you'd want to do if you were hiding from your enemies is what yours in some underground place where all they have to do is just put a stone across the door and you're done for i think they had some other function than that and so yeah we drove all over turkey so a lot of amazing stuff came back to england briefly then went straight to peru and bolivia up in up in the high andes reached a place
in a hired car fifteen thousand feet above sea level just over fifteen thousand that seriously i short of breath yeah and that was that was on the way to a site called chevy and who won where the venerated psychedelics in ancient times it's also visited tiahuanaco in the andes where in bolivia where i've been a number of times before fantastic play i came back from there to south africa spent five days in south africa playing immediately after returning from south africa and came to the united states and i've been in the usa for the last two two one slash two weeks wow to get you some vitamins sir i need vitamins we really need to get you do you do you follow a healthy diet well at least in that way i don't i don't meet maybe that's not healthy i don't i don't eat red meat i did the chicken i eat but i pick on shrimps and scallops and things like that otherwise i'm a vegetarian so
go fish and vegetables i don't eat fish that has a backbone i don't eat things which are staying i don't eat things with backbones wow would brought this about it was in ayawaska trip no no about this way back in one thousand nine hundred and eighty six when i was thirty six years old i realized that i do and enjoy meet very much so i thought why don't i become a vegetarian i became a vegetarian when are for years and years and years then i got bored i got seriously bored with vegetarian diet and i'd always like shrimps and scallops and shellfish of all kinds lobster stuff like that so i went back and started i lapsed and i started eating shellfish and that's kind of where i drew the line i would i would eat as far away from myself as possible but i would definitely have flesh and so i i pick on these these creatures no particular moral reason for it is just just what i like to it it's been more although if you're trying to eat things that are as far away from suppose so i suppose so but wouldn't it be ironic if i were to discover when i pass through the veil
next well that the one thing that you're not allowed to eat ever shrimps imagine that i hi the dow their dietary requirements i highly doubt it i had it is everything is temporary mean we don't know part of i think what's what's great about being a vegetarian or being a vegan is that you don't want to take a life yeah i appreciate that that's kind of what it comes down to for maine she's not very much however long you're taking the matter what all the time and you take life when you eat vegetables you just take a different type type of life a life i'm wearing a leather belt right now i'm wearing leather shoes i took life my feets life it's not just animal life but plant life and fungal life and all these i mean i i i see the point i just think it's a little short sighted and utopian the v the view is a just a little delusional but
appreciate the the thought the sentiment behind me honest if i if i if i really enjoyed meets even chicken or red meat if i really enjoyed it i would eat it but i don't i never got i never got much out of it on them i was a bit squeamish about the blood and i never i never really wanted to eat it side i kind of felt this waste i don't i get no pleasure from stuff somewhere so why should i eat it anyway that that's why i say it's not entirely a moral thing right it's partly just a matter of of of a preference as as well but i agree miss you i mean everything in the web of life on this planet lives off lives off everything else i think i think maybe in arc soc in western technological soc you know we've got so divorced from the act of actually killing an animal that we forget what we're doing we should get what's involved it's all packaged in sanitized and it's easy it's easy to forget what's involved in it the some some creature is is is dying and in our culture of pretty unpleasant miserable day
i agree and i think that that separation is very immoral that separation between us and our food and to to to try to reconcile that i've recently taken up until i went hunting last year for the first time and got a deer and killed it and got it and quartered it and all that jazz and eat it was incredibly satisfying and also knowing that where i went these animal they're not gonna make it no animal makes it but what the idea is to just breed as quickly as you can your children live for a couple years and then they get taken out by my alliance ohio he's in the winter they they're freeze to death or what have you but it's a constant cycle yeah and what i did is is dip into that cycle yeah and i think this i i i i have no problem with that and and you know that it's it's much better actually go huntin animal rather than the the horrible cold industrial slaughter houses that we have that we have now and yeah the fear and humiliation the animals are put through in that in that context
least at least in hunting is where it's kind of it's kind of one to one and and you are you are out there you're actually killing what you eat and the animal lives in entirely wild natural life and so the moment you pull that trigger yeah there's no there's there's no artificial environment it lives in there's no hormones are introduced into its body no antibiotics there's nothing unnatural about it at all just the bullet hits it and that's gone and it's over it's over and it's virtually painless because when the bullet hits an animal like that i mean they it's so fast and so quick they don't even know what happened they try to run and then they're done and i think i will what i'm trying to do and i'm trying to do it this year by the end of this year i want to make my diet when i'm home when i can control it completely wild game that's my goal while game which you will hunt yes which i will hunt right yeah and for me and for my whole family and i have this mapped out i'm this year i want to get dear i want to get a bison i want to get an elk
you get all these various animals and just do it entirely to pick your meat and bring it back home and deep freeze it and to make sure i always have wild natural meat available if i want to eat it well before i went hunting i decided that i'm either going to be a vegetarian after this trip i'm either going to decide that this is like really not me i don't really like it or i'm gonna become a hunter yes i became a hunter right i i enjoy it i've always like me but i think it's also because i i participate so much and like really strenuous exercise two jitsu martial arts and yeah we she cries requires you to have some protein anybody's is not out of it makes me crave it i don't know if i needed i'm i know there's many people that work out very hard to go on a completely plant based diet but for me i don't know whatever i think i need there is from person to person but the hunting that you do or or that you that you did it to get this out of all do you i mean are you out there in nature is it wasn't seen how does it work i went to while going this week actually
for the first time i went i went to montana the badlands of montana montana actually were lewis and clark went down the missouri river it was fascinating because it's in nibley wild i mean we saw we were there is a wide lap there's a lot of wild yeah specially montana because you can't grow out so homesteaders tried to make these homes out there and live and we took these photos of him i should've brought some photos back button we took photos these old homestead strides run from the seven from the eighteen hundreds and you know they're just rotted out nobody could grow anything on there and then the indians the the natives wind up killing a lot of people there is a lot of like between the net as personal as people that live there and the the time we were there we were there for about five days and
maybe we saw a five or six other people the entire time and they were just people going down the river and canoes doing the same thing hunting so you're having a wilderness experience yeah there's a photo of it up there that's what it looked like it was completely wild no cell phone service no internet no nothing sleeping in a tent for five days very very intense very refreshing to like that was one of the things that i found fascinating about it going to bed when it got dark getting up in the morning when it got light no cell phone service no no internet no dealing with social media and other nonsense that we're constantly inundated with on a daily basis i enjoyed it very much but but you're not hunting an animal that can hunt you back that's true
but the animals that can hunt you back or not really not really edible i mean you can eat some of them i guess you can eat grizzly bear like some people in montana or in alaska eat grizzly yeah i think they make grizzly jerky out of it and some parts you can eat mountain line you can eat the loin of a mountain lion apparently not delicious it's not the best game animals are essentially animals that are all running from predators and you just take part in that you just get you just get into the scramble you know in south africa in the kalahari desert the namibia the bushman there they will run animals down persistent i'm writing them down there run them down they will run for like twelve hours yeah just running running running until finally the animal just says i'm done yeah i've watched that i've watched that on videos online it's fascinating native americans used to do that as well thank you
beings are a rare animal and that we can out run animals we can't like out speed them but we can keep going yeah we can go on for a long time and some animals just over heat yeah they can't sweat yeah you know and so they're designed for like these quick sprints to get away from trouble but if we're just tristan we keep after them there's a yes i've been listening to those it was recommended by one of the nurses at the regional keen read kind however laboratory where we're going to get this blood work done called radio lab and it dealt with this one tour our tribe in kenya that has so many successful runners from this one particular area and they were we figure out they did all these studies to try to figure out what made them so successful and there were several factors one of 'em was their body shape one of 'em was the
they ran to and from school on a regular basis their constant running but the other one was is unbelievably brutal tribal ritual this coming of age ritual right that the men and the women went through that involve genital mutilation with the men involved circumcision with this sharp stick and they would cover their face with mud while they did this and if they cracked the mud if the like squint deter them will rate winced in pain then they would be able to coward and they would not have access to women they would like there they would be cut out of the economic situation in the tribe until if you it's the most recent radio lab folks so if you i was recommended to
this this happens to these days is a young man in just entering puberty who's at thirteen year did two hundred and thirteen and i think seventeen they said they circumcise them with a stick not only that they keep this for skin on and they tie it in a bow and they push the head of the penis through this bow and this whole ritual takes several weeks in which time their secluded an when they leave the hut there likes including this hut when they leave the hot to do anything they're not allowed to walk they must run at full pace it also involves crawling through stinging nettles naked they have to crawl through these stinging nettle bush is the idea is just to completely control your ability to withstand pain tough bastards oh yeah so it's fascinating it's like this perfect storm of the
have an innate natural athletic ability based on their frames and then it's also the running on a regular basis and also the intense ability to withstand pain absolutely fascinating fasting stuff again i mean this is all stuff in our culture that we've kind of completely got away from set behind us we don't we don't even into relate without a toll and and anymore and and it may wonder i mean the the hits the fan on in our culture goes down who can survive actually i think we're just going to go back to if the ship does hit the fan and i know that's a huge topic of your work and what what brought me to you in the first place was your your work on the clear evidence that at certain points in history the ship clearly did hit the fan and people did have to rebuild watch a lot of shows on subsistence living in a mostly in alaska there's a lot of these shows life
below zero is my new favorite one and it's all based on these people living in this one of them is this man who lives with this in you it woman and they they just fish and hunt and run their family lives off of this and it's absolutely fascinating the the every day is spent acquiring food and they're not they're hardly growing anything because it's so cold so everything is just about catching fish hunting animals preserving these animals in whatever way whether drying there you know and it's it's an amazingly brutal life but they seem to be very happy and this is one of the really confusing aspects of this real traditional sort of subsistence living that people seemed to feel satisfied by it is kind of something we were meant to do maybe
away i don't know if it's meant to but it seems like we've evolved to do what you have to consider that for you know anatomically modern humans as far as we know have been around for slightly less than two hundred thousand years and for almost all of that period that's what we did yeah that's what we did we would just really as you know at least if we go with mainstream history and certainly it's true for the majority of the human race whether we go with mainstream history or not it's really only in the last ten twelve thousand years that we've been that we've been anything else apart from hunting and gathering yeah it's a it's a long time and we've tried to upset that over the last two hundred years with machines and electricity and all these different things but we long for that created a fundamentally artificial artificial way of life and so quickly it seems like our genetics have not been able to catch up with the actual environment but it was supposed the irony of it is that this the the oldest
development all this amazing technology all these machines all this gear all this equipment but somehow how much was it would make us happier didn't didn't make us happier me made us it made us much less happy yeah i don't know if that ever was the promise i mean you know i remember i remember with computers back in the back in the 80s before computers really early 80s late 70s idea was that you know if the computer came in that we would just have oldest endless leisure we would have a life of complete relaxation that would be the problem would be actually filling our leisure but that does that is not ten to be the case everybody's lives i i've taken up with the the the computer the the i phone the the the the email you know all the all the time you can never get away from it is is it's constantly dividing a time emails hundreds hundreds hundreds hundreds of emails a day sometimes i i i i have this huge of burden of guilt by email so i don't i don't say we
sit there in my in my email is i cannot answer the mall it's impossible i gave up a few years ago trying to answer them i try to respond to a few tweets a day if possible but while doing especially providing as much content as i do with podcasts and creating comedy although there's no time that is going to become a full time letter writer yeah it would that we literally would be what you would do yeah i'd be anyway you wouldn't be dust till dawn yelling that and then sleeping and starting all over again you still would never catch i would never catch especially if you gave it a real honest reply elected was a complex discussion that some you want to have with you yeah you're not going to get there yeah yeah i face the same problem from in a smaller to smaller level than you but you know like facebook and twitter face facebook i find is very is very useful things very very positive thing i do like interacting with my facebook community boss i caught interact
i can't interact that much i try to i try to put up posts i tried to put up new material people make interesting comments sometimes those comments are really valuable to me i get a link to something i didn't know about and i go look at that but to respond to every comment when you have when you have three hundred and five hundred thousand one thousand five hundred comments on a post it's impossible it's just it's just impossible yeah do that that is a weird thing about our time i think that's a stage that we're going through that will be i think whatever comes next will probably be even crazier and even more impossible to deal with halfway to telepathy right yes that's what i think i think there will be some sort of a technologically created symbiotic relationship allows us to communicate some symbiotic thing where i think we're already kind of symbiotic with certain aspects of technology glasses
glasses are essentially a technology that's a part of your life median wearing your hat all day right i i do cell phone it might mean i might as well be attached to me is i i'm scared if i leave it anywhere yeah you know if i leave it in my car and i go to the mall my god it's in the car tonight cell phone is alone yeah with this weird times weird time when it comes to this stage that we're in we're obviously progressing towards an even greater connectivity with our technology which in some ways is in some ways is a very good thing what i find again with with the facebook with the with the internet is suddenly the whole world is talking what we're yeah it doesn't actually matter what national boundaries you have or where you where you grew up what your religion is your in your in communication with people from from all over the world and community
ideas tend to kind of gravitate together and people share share thoughts and ideas this is as far as we know is a new development for the human race to do this on a global scale and yes push it comes out of it but also also i think a lot of good stuff is coming out of it and it is challenging is challenging the status quo in the world today it is very very threatening to the powers that be that people can communicate directly on another i remember times an author when i depended heavily on the big media to to to be heard about we known at all if i'd written a new book how could anybody know written it unless one of the big newspapers are a big tv station or somebody covered it i don't give a shit about that now i don't i don't need those people anymore you know i i can communicate directly with people who are interested in my
the big media companies or whoever influence them could remove a book from the market and then that that subject is gone john markel legros book it was a perfect example the sacred mushroom on the cross for testing yeah and for if you've never read it john marco allegro was a biblical scholar and a linguist who also happen to be an ordained minister he was one of the guys who was the he was assigned to decipher the dead sea scrolls did it for fourteen years and wrote this amazing book which basically said that the entire religion of christianity originally was about consuming psychedelic mushrooms an fertility rituals it's fascinating stuff yeah and it so they removed it i mean that book was gone they didn't like the message at all yeah jan irvin is has worked to republish and it's available again now but
for the longest time that book was gone you had to find my own two copies of it that i bought used and they were very expensive you had to buy them from you know some strange book company that fat so this is something the big big media con do it can't do it any interest they said if they cannot do it anymore you could find something tweeted said take a picture of it to say if you were in turkey and you found something unique you can take a picture of that tweet it and and and and and make a link an article to your website boom put whatever you found on your website and then within moments thousands of people would be downloading and training it and he would just in a frenzy spread across the world i've been doing that i've been making a point on my travels of putting up picture and putting up my immediate reaction to something that i've something that i've seen and and it produces a lot of a lot of reaction and and again it's a you know it goes it goes two ways because when people communicate with me i learned from them it's not just that i'm giving i'm giving people
i'm getting stuff back yeah i'm not christian my i think my resume i i have these conversations with people that i meet it shows all the time with us say all this pot the podcast changed my life and thank you so much it changed my life to and my interaction with these people as changed my life as much as it's changed their life the the the the information i get on a daily basis from people on twitter in informs me in a way that i've never been informed before constant all all day long i mean every day i'm getting all these new stories that we did to me i re tweet the fascinating ones as much as i can but it's a never ending stream and it's amazing i love it i'm so so in
i'm so happy i feel so obligated the whole the whole connection is a very rewarding connection for you as well as a matter of fact you are doing something quite special i mean i i've been on the road and and it's amazing the people that i meet whether it's in south africa whether it's in some midland city in britain whether it's in upstate new york you know who'd listen to joe rogan you're reaching a lot of a lot of people that way and and this is special that is i'll well it's an amazing connection that we have today it's amazing to be able to do what we're doing and it's a new thing i mean it's it's just it never happened before it wasn't around this way it's possible to change everybody says no the world is too big the power structures to great nothing can be nothing can be changed nothing but be able to but i don't think so i'm really optimistic i think i think good things are good things are coming there's an awakening going on i am as well i'm very optimistic just based on the people that i've met have told me they've changed their life i'd met no bullshit at least
thirty or forty people that told me they lost one hundred after they listen to this podcast that's incredible just people that just change their diet started exercising and started getting their blood pumping and feeling better and started thinking positively surrounding themselves with positive people and that that could be done on that scale a kid that can spread via really that is a totally can and that's a real measurable change in somebody's life that's both setting aside ill health and discomfited moving on to something better and more and i've talked to maybe fifty or so people that have started their own podcast because of this podcast and i hugely encouraging of that because i think there's no difference i mean if you were curious person you speak a language that other people understand and you find information online you want to discuss it started talking podcast why not i mean if it catches on it catches on it if it doesn't catch on keep going until it does catch on the way i see it though it's really it's really interesting looking at your story ok i mean so you've got this fight this fighter back
mma i i don't know a lot about his sense of mixed martial arts yes ufc yes what is the ultimate fighting champion ultimate fighting championship and that goes back into you use yes along way i suppose i saw a little clip of you just kicking some and i don't know so fast you didn't you look to you it was it was incredible to see that she got all of that and and i meet a lot of people who are who are interested in that my son in law for example is a is a mixed martial arts fighter and it really hugely important part of his life but the same time you're combining it with this extraordinary interest in psychedelics and social change and and all of these radical ideas and intuitively one would not immediately think that somebody who's into mixed mixed martial arts fighting would be also into radical philosophical ideas but it's like precisely the combination of those two things that is that is really attractive i think well i think that the eight intuition or intuitively that it wouldn't be is just because people don't understand what martial arts really are right and marshall
with a martial really is is the path that you go through an becoming axel and a martial artist is just developing your human potential that's all it is and in seeking the truth about yourself and your own character like as we were talking about those kenyan men who won extreme pain and they they become stronger because of that they become something special because of that that king truth through martial arts is along the same lines it's doing some incredibly difficult and in doing that you grow as a person and then in seeking the truth about your character seeking the truth about your determination your will power your focus your discipline you also start to seek truth in everything else around you and your government in your relationships in your he is all all various aspects of your life your diet you see the relationship between your died in your health and all these different things they do for
all into each other they do psychedelics all of them psychedelics absolutely because it because in in many ways there is no more challenging adventure or experience the one can have a mean yeah there's all kind of wilderness expanses we're gonna but at a deep jenny with a powerful psychedelic is going to challenge you in every poll level as a human being and requires incredible will and strength to to deal with that as well a lot of people who don't work with psychedelics or just wash brainwashed by the whole war on drugs thing don't understand this is the this is a deep personal journey which requires strength of character to fulfill without a doubt
i've done some terrifying things in my life but the moment before you you light the lighter dead fires up the d m t as one of the most terrifying moments of all time i totally agree specially if you've been there and you know what's coming well we go fifteen minutes in a rocket to the center of the universe exact swarming with callers and geometric patterns and truth and fear and entities now yeah i i i i i show that i mean the last time i ate the last time i smoked in tea was enough to the beginning of the end of september two thousand and eleven i haven't smoked since because and i will but i had i had such a such a did well at the word terrifying it doesn't do it justice to what happened to me it was it was just the single huge ordeal that i have ever confronted in my life and after you've been through an ordeal like that you kind of kind
twice about just leaping leaping back into it again but i learned a lot from it it was it was a hugely hugely beneficial and to survive that and to come back from it you know you you gather your strength from experiences like that and that's why that's why i think our society's foolish to try to just sanitize everything and not allow people to to to undergo these these profound and important experiences would run we should be creating structures where it is possible for people to have those experiences and where they don't need to feel afraid of the law about it and where they where they can challenge themselves in that way with good advice and with and with wise and loving care surrounding that situation absolutely and i think that's one of the things that's beautiful about today's internet and these exchanges like we're having right now is it let's people know what these experience really are about and what what the potential these experiences actually do hold because with uh
game of massive propaganda that has been going on for decades and decades and it's really confusing of years it's confused some really intelligent people i've had some really disappointing conversations with guys like michio kokko talking bout mushrooms give you brain damage and like such it it's just so silly is complete in such a brilliant man otherwise it's like brainwashing goes very deep yeah and and it's as though it it presses a button in certain certain people that they actually just rational faculty shut down and they cannot they cannot react to the subject in an intelligent way anymore i do i do find this again and again it is a it is a it is a huge it's a self preservation issue as well for people that are professionals because if you're a professional in any sort of
anything where you're being judged or you're being looked at as you know possibly well you know we're looking at you for possible promotion but we heard you do what do you do and mushrooms in the desert yeah what the bob yeah you're ruining the whole career pal you know you're on the fast track yeah exactly people people are in are are in danger of destroying their careers if that if that comes out i mean that's where but i guess you and i have some some advantage because we we have careers that cannot get really yeah i can only help yeah if i get caught with a bag of mushrooms at the airport i get a bump it everything's great right get excited my twitter explodes yeah yeah i mean obviously i'm not flying with mushrooms but not my point being that yeah and if you're honest about it look if you're sing something you shouldn't be doing 'cause it's harming someone an
people find out about it the repercussions are real and they should be but if you're doing something like psychedelics that harm no one in there actually and then you can have a rational discussion about the benefits that you've had from them that helps people it really does totally helps people and i find this i find this again again and that's the crucial distinction is are you doing something which is harmful to others which impinges upon the sovereignty of others which makes the life of another person last so the more and the answer is we're taking psychedelics no you're not you're not doing that that's an inner experience like that's your that's your own experience and as i've said many times i mean we have plenty of laws that deal with doing negative stuff to other people we do not need laws that seek to govern control manage limit our consciousness
this is the this is the heart of the matter we're starting to see in our lifetime these centers in mexico my friend ed clay it runs one in mexico and i know there's some in canada as well where they have i ibogaine centers where people are going and completely curing themselves from opiates yeah predictions for folks who don't know are a huge problem in this country i have lossed a couple of friendships one went home probably wrong because the guy was on a bunch of different pills or a bunch of different doctors and i just couldn't deal with him anymore i had to get him out of my life blaming other people for all of its failures constantly woe is me and just on pills all the time and these are prescribed pills users these are legal pills he had a back injury and he went to one doctor in one state and then moved to california and started going to another doctor and then having both guys sent in prescriptions and taking both two times the amount of pill and if you would take you take
prescribed dose of opiate pills you're very likely to get addictive yeah even with the prescribed dose is a really difficult time to get off of their special you're facing some significant pain yeah yeah you just had a hip replacement did this prescribe you any yeah they did i was given but nothing i mean nothing extremely strong but but codeine you know which is which is an opiate michael that's what michael used to having it right does it does it i used to i believe so i believe nico had codeine and codeine is actually a highly addictive drug it says there's no there's no doubt it is it is addictive certainly there often mix it with paracetamol which is which is a less strong painkiller and uh if you take those two pills in combination you could get addicted to it within a week or ten days and it's the coding that you're getting addicted to but it's the para settable that's really going to totally screw up
liver you know in the in in the in the long run and and it's just it's stunning actually the the the big pharmaceutical companies are allowed to do this they're allowed to get to deliberately addicts people to hook people on very powerful drugs that i really have very little but very little bit if it i mean if i to be honest if i if i had some terrible cancer some terrible pain some terrible suffering i would be very is it in exploring opium or even heroin as a matter of fact i think that nature nature has been kind to us is provided us with certain plants that can help us with pain and the reach is a stage and may reach a stage in life where way of of where you're at where your terminal with why suffer that why suffer that terrible agony it would be
it would be interesting perhaps to to to sort of bliss out a bit on that but to take it regularly daily for small in mind of pain this a huge mistake so what is for there's a new us snail toxin that they've discovered that is a hundred times more effective than opiates and is non addictive and they're trying to figure out a way there's it this new drugs from the cone snail venom and it's one hundred times more potent than any existing pain medication and non addictive and they're coming with the snail venom in a pill form that would just completely eliminate pain i can see the big drug companies not wanting to do that they'll probably run out with a hammer and smash every snail that exist slash every didn't cahoots with something
company to spray some shit all over the areas where these snails live in just wakeham out all in one big they want to keep us they want to keep us addicted or the amount of money i mean people would say that that's a ridiculous thing or not that's not what people do but the amount of money you're talking about is absolutely staggering enormous billions upon billions every month and you talking about about opiate addictions of which the the vast majority our are addictions to prescribed pills and yeah then there's also there's also heron heroin addiction and again if a and in fact ayawaska astonishingly successful in getting people off these of these addictions in a very weird way way i'm i'm not sure the exact mechanism i will gain but i've the people that have taken it they've told me that it's both lou l
physically removed the addiction and more importantly psychologically alerts you to all the factors that have contributed to your shitty decision making in the first place that's it that's it because i all the errors in your thinking all the errors in your personality that have led you to this path you're just trying to numb life with these pills yes yeah it's like it it's like teaching now that you get a that's the mystery of these plants actually the the to the teacher plants particular the two plants that go into the i wasco brew and then the boca that they're probably the most powerful in this in this respect is that there is that there's a sense of an encounter with an intelligence which which communicates with you which gets right to the root of your personal and and shows it to you and says well i i mean i've had some experience with this myself and shows it to you and says this is actually how you are you know and if
fuck i never realized that really i i hid that from myself for so long the ego the ego and that revelation is it helpful in in handling an addiction is protecting you by making it i will gain illegal no one's protecting you from anything other than you getting cured from these illnesses and and realizing the issues that you have in your life and your personality and in case yet another example of the fact that we live in a society that is completely insane our society at is actually crazy it's crazy is run by crazy people in pursuit of crazy motives and is designed to diminish human potential icon how i don't think it's accident i think it's actually deliberately designed to minimize by who well i mean this is where i have to get into something like gnosticism which has been a long term long term interest of mine and the idea that there is a
i don't want to use the word divine in terms of god 'cause i don't go with god particularly i do go with mystery but that there's uh divine spark in human beings and and that there has been a project for thousands of years to deny us the opportunity to realize that part of ourselves the spiritual essence of ourselves and to keep change in matter and locked in locked in the material realm and what we see in modern society is two things going on side by side one is so cool materialist science which tells that there is nothing else to reality except the stuff that you can weigh and measure account i any thought that that might be spirits that country this for example might not be generated by the brain might not be local to the brain any such thought is supposed to be material science complete nonsense and then there's the actual materialism which which persuade us through all manner of me
yeah and the way our society is run the our sole purpose is creatures is to produce and consume and that we have no other function here on this on that we ought to define ourselves and measure ourselves in terms of our production and is that really what we're being taught or is that just something that people find easy that that sing in consuming is just easy it's exciting get new car it's exciting get a new tv that's exciting uhm can you you know you can wear clothes that this guy can't wear wu exciting i think there's something to that that is just a natural aspect of being a human being and constantly having this desire for improvement and and progress and we measure that improvement in progress a roni asli with objects i mean there was a there was a culture of of native american indians i forget the i forget the name of the tribe who had the sermon called potlatch where the for which i
like once a year and their project what they had to do was the the more things you could burn that showed i showed that you were a really big guy you know just just complete the ultimate conspicuous consumption as you take all these possessions and burn them not because your despising them but because you're rich enough to just barely wow that's so stupid i thought it was to free yourself from this level and fortunately not unfortunately not yeah the consciousness not being project ed from the human mind is a very confusing one to me because i see their point and i see your point i see i see what i see is i don't i think that we know enough about consciousness is itself to define what's going on we can't be sure i think is it possible that the mind could be some form of antenna i don't know that i think it's pretty cool
that if you injure certain parts of the mind it affects certain aspects of cognitive function i think that's pretty clear is pretty clear yeah i learned that what that's true an antenna to the generation if you damage an antenna the picture on the tv screen is affected actually if a couple radio insides of a radio it doesn't mean that the signals not still out there it's just not getting in right yeah there's that
this also there was a fascinating debate recently between richard dawkins and depak chopra which it was quite hilarious 'cause richard dawkins is a very brilliant guy but he's also kind of country gets a little country rightly so mean he's had to deal with so much quackery and fuckery his whole life and he's been you know of rabid atheist atheist for the longest made a career out of that he has made a big career out of there but one of the things at the park i said that was really fascinating 'cause they were talking about consciousness and consciousness being an atoms and consciousness being and dawkins was insisting that these things did not have consciousness which to me is oh i go out how can you insist it seems to maine yeah it seems to me that whether you clearly
brilliant man with a massive amount of scientific data at his disposal for things that he can prove for sure but to say that you know that adams don't have consciousness is kind of silly because we don't an the other thing that deep said that i thought was really fascinating was that he believes that what what you're seeing in human beings with human beings being recycled stardust mean we literally are made of stardust star had to explode to create the very molecules that are inside of our body what you're seeing that a human being is the universe actually becoming aware of itself in a way that they can communicate it's a beautiful idea it's beautiful idea yeah and i think both guys are so rigid on what their side is in especially in a debate form and dawkins absolutely sure he's corrected epoch
confusing the fuck outta everybody with word salad of quantum mendis and he just throws quantum out there like you throw salt on french fries i don't even know if it's the right way to use it but he just throws it out there and confuses the shit out of you sometimes like poor method of communication he incorporates because it's clear what he's saying even though i know what quantum means i know i know what he's talking about we talk about consciousness being non local i understand all those things but he says it in such a word salad way there's like one i don't know what you're getting that message seems to me like you're trying to confuse the out of people with a real elaborate sentence whom could be yeah and then when this debate or you may make a point to win a debate with richard okay yes richard richard dawkins is a very clever guy i i've i've met him and he's he's a formidable argue or yeah
easy not easy a toll pot he is a religious fanatic it in his own way his his his but non belief in meaning or purpose in the universe is a religious idea of a kind it's not based on facts is not based on evidence it's based on his bed his opinion as a matter of fact nothing more it's also based on a lack of information and when i say that lack of information i mean one thing and one thing only psychedelic experiences he has not then he needs to have them without a doubt he needs to have the money and i would like to i would like dawkins to smoke dmt yes that's the one that's the one psychedelic with which there is just no negotiation you don't just don't get to discuss the anti it just does for you and and did other ones like even the d m t and i was good dawkins could resist that but yeah most d m t once you hit the right does once you pass that fourth fourth big draw on the pipe there
then there there's no negotiation it is going to take you there and it's going to deal with you and i would like to see dawkins argue with dmt you can and he would probably argue with what the effects are yeah he are in that that some sort of a in the salt on the serb visual cortex by various chemicals that distort perception reality that's what he do yeah i mean it what it is though is data and what it is is an experience and it's ball things he's lacking and is lacking in that data and that experience data that he needs to have as a scientist is he's one of the one of the people would really like to see having that having that data i agree with you that he would probably find a way to rationalize it and put it and set it aside but still it would be i would be useful for him to have that experience because he's been so influential in waiting so many people that there is nothing beyond this material realm and and is a place beyond this material realm i prepared to admit it could be something that
projecting out of our own minds there may not be any relative but it feels like a real place i appreciate you you admitting that and i i say that often as well i think that it feels like a different dimension that's inhabited with intelligent something it is urgent something i got i the way i described is geometric patterns are made out of love and understanding yeah that's that's what it feels like to me i have never had a bad dmt trip in a sense it where it be turned evil but i've heard people discuss like really horrific evil entities and they run into and i often wonder by virtue of that whether or not what they're talking about is something that's in their psyche something that's in their sub conscious something that bring it to the party yes my my my last dmt trip which i mentioned a little while ago which was which was extremely powerful and scary this
the time this happened just in the two weeks before i gave up my twenty four year cannabis habit and i think i had some shit to go through and i think the dmt was partly by part of i then followed that with five ayawaska sessions but i think the dmc was really helpful i may this to the last time we talked but what but what happened as i went under i had that fourth day inhalation of the pipe and laid and laid back and and the i don't normally hear voices in the empty but voice spoke to me and the voice said to me your hours now your hours now and my
ask conscious thought was schitt yes but only only for twelve minutes you know and then and then i felt myself being ripped apart there were these things these small things i was on some kind of table and they were running around me and they were tearing me apart my body was torn to pieces bits where car stuff is like a cocoon was being ripped away and then the voice comes again there's like a trumpet call and the voice comes again and now the great transformation shall begin and it was it was the weirdest and strangest experience i was in this flickering huge space in these little beings were running around me and they were doing and i was completely helpless and and at their mercy and that that was scary that's amazing but it was not demonic it was like it was like it was like this is stuff you need to go through you need to you need
do this it's going to be very very frightening but it's it's something you need to do and and i did need to do it and it was helpful to me was that the first time you heard voices yeah i never and i did not hear voices speaking to me anti anti ever before wow i my my experiences have been filled with voice saying what well one big ones is it's a really like childish thing that they would say in this when i was about to leave when i was starting to sober up there with it was say i love you six seven million five it a thousand times like a child would say i would hear that yeah i would hear that more than i want to hear your hours and well i think i came into it in a good place yeah i was in a happy place in my life and i wasn't scared i wasn't fighting it out but that i love if you thing was really weird the other thing that it said was the words of mckenna and i think when i'm trying to analyze this i
look at what it was was that i had listened to so much mckenna before i got into it that i had sort of stained my brain with this idea and either my of consciousness was saying this or they were what they are whether there are you know a part of my my thought process we're projecting this thing this reminder do not give in astonishment yeah and that that was because it was so mind blowing i was flying down this bumblebee we covered like passed away this spinning but i see bumble bee cotton not covered rather by colored it was the very it was very clear black and yellow stripes of all this thing with very bright intense blackwell and very bright intense yellow and it was moving and like like like and i was shooting down this thing and then it was it was saying do not give into astonishment it was the
the words mckenna but not in the you know i got it wasn't i don't think it was his voice i think it was like no voice i think it was just the word at that thought well that's the weird thing about the the the the telepathic thing that you you get from the dmt experience to see you on stand the words speaking to you in english but it's not really speaking to you it's just those things are getting into your brain very clearly but i'm not really sure you hear them yeah yeah i mean here is a here is an experience which what a pity to go through life and not have that experience ever yeah i've said to many people a cure for you yourself man on your wrist it's scary as shit but boy do you get a lot out of it and i mean in my in my case the previous most of the previous dmt these i'd had had not been terrifying they had been gentle and healing and
i think that i was at a juncture in my life where i needed to make a change and and and i think that that particular day and to express followed by the five i was could ginny's help me to make that change and i'm i'm eternally grateful for that it was it was read is a different beneficial thing yeah it was very positive and beneficial for me as well i was i think i've always wanted a change why want to change now i mean i always want more more enlightenment maurepas more more serenity whatever it is an at that time i think i was just trying to figure out what are the possibilities and what else is out there and it was just one big rush of impossible possibilities like and that redefined my view of reality itself who's really scary though the last one was really slippery because after it was over it was so intense and powerful that regular reality
seem real to me and i was i was i went through period where i feel like my ego was trying to trick me by being scared of everything was scared of car accidents and trees falling in front of my car and right buildings lapsing earthquakes is all these thoughts that came in my mind that i was this went on for four days after the jazz yeah i'm not it's not intensely strong wasn't like paranoia or skews me or anxiety it was like flattering thing that i got no stop it stop it right but like i'd be on the highway in a book with this guy's flip the road comes right towards you and smashes it on your car you will get all these all this nonsense that was just entering in my mind it's not not just being aware of traffic and you know being smart but abilities with wouldn't wanna be doing that before never no never i think what it was was my ego trying to regain some sort of control is that
my ego by protecting me or by keeping me paranoid and keeping the very base and prime all and and and and animalistic worried about safety and shelter and and and disasters and things like that it was trying to regain some strength hello sir humbled by the experience a humbling experience yeah really it really is it's one of the most i mean perhaps the most humbling experience that is that it's possible to have an again that's why that's why it's valuable and and who says we shouldn't have experiences because they're scary you know yeah the the the these these are amongst the most important experiences it's possible to have
i hear you use flotation tanks yeah i have one in my basement you have a do you use it regularly yeah yeah i've been using them for i i bought my house in two thousand and three sos for for more than ten years of had this in my basement please describe the egg thing to me you get a you get into this we've never done it i've never done all my god wants to do it where you're staying while you're out here friends always perfect i'll get you in if you want to go tomorrow okay as a place in venice called the float lab the best place in the country and and he's always there and float it's amazing how long you don't need anything i like to do two hours okay if i have two hours but if i only have an hour i'll set a timer
timer outside of the the the box so i can hear it when it goes off okay but that's my old one to see it up there that's my that's a a some mahdi tank that i had right the one that i have now those built by the float lab which is far more complicated it's really a man's huge seven feet tall nine feet wide or nine foot long six foot wide it shoot it's like a it looks like a walk in freezer okay and has oxygen pumped into it when you in it you're in water right yeah and that is sold water the cancellation you have done i have we're gonna change life tomorrow it's amazing it's it's like a psychedelic experience sep completely natural completely safe and you can end it anytime you want right bike that's my new tank but when you when you climb into that thing the with the water is set to the same temperature as the surface of your skin and there's a thousand pounds of salt in that water you see eight hundred my smaller tank this one's a thousand and so you can't sync exactly about eleven inches deep so even if you did sangkum campground your mind yeah and you're floating like half of your body is above the water and as you live there your
in total silence total darkness your ears are actually underwater you close the lid on this thing and you don't hear a thing you don't see a thing you have no input and you don't feel the water because the water is the same temperature as your skin so you're floating completely weightless it's really great for your body it feels great 'cause you would alleviate all the pressures of gravity and stress you feel your muscles relaxing and unwinding and for me the way i describe it is the first twenty minutes or so it seems like a seminar on my life is to gets me to start examining various aspects of you go through like a life review yeah in the absence of sensory input you know with the scent would even while we're having this conversation it's very quiet here but we're we're having to deal with the fact that this computers just screens yet ceiling there's your body is a share yeah yeah all those things are gone in the tank in the tank it's just your mind it's the only
place ever the only environment on earth where your mind is untethered from your body it's an amazing amazing experience and lately save completely natural completely beneficial completely refreshing it's amazing even if you're not into the psychedelic aspect of you just want to relax it's incredible i love it it would be something that everyone has in their home it would benefit so many people in so many ways do you get into visionary space yes you do absolutely specially morning little smoker smoking but that's what i say so you could announce the experience for you said mushrooms mushrooms enhance it but although mushrooms are scary in there i cannabis cannabis eating cannabis is my favorite i like to eat cannabis that i feel like i up in a too much and then get in there right that's about those and those are intensely psychedelic and very visionary but what think about it you can end it pretty much at any moment when you open the door you
the cannabis will still affect you you still have the weirdness of that but all nutty hallucinations and visuals wall go away he just stepped yeah you just step out and you can get to that place without the cannabis as well i know a lot of people that have really intense psychedelic visions while they're in the isolation tank click interesting well this is an experience i have to have you going to have it going to have it tomorrow do you have a day off are you free don't have a total day off but i can get two hours ok it'll work it in will make it will make it happen right crash who's the guy who runs the float lab in venice is a great friend and a great guy and genius he's he's the wizard behind the curtain that creates the greatest tanks on earth he's just nutty nutty dude that just just incredibly hard to figure out a way to make there's like there's there's tanks there's like the semantic tank which is a very good tank very functional you can use it there's a bunch of different companies that have tanks and then there's his tank and the difference is like
a modern b m w compared to a model t ford okay like literally it's like good odds amazing he's a he's just a genius he's figured with a pump oxygen into them he also figured out a way to flush all the water through ozone it kills all the bacteria he has like incredibly intense filtration systems four and five step process of filtering the water like all this equipment that he has attached all the stuff no bodies rocket like that i mean he takes it too literally then he the next levels not even a mile from him he's he's gone he's not he's in a bar place all by his own with what he's creating at the failure in total silence total sign until dot total darkness and you don't feel a thing you feel like you're flying through space because you're by
it is completely weightless it's the weirdest feeling ever but it's amazing convince me to you i can't believe you haven't done it but you're such a psychedelic adventure i would have thought that have been a part of your daily life it hasn't made it but we gotta set you up with one in england man we gotta send one over there and ok send crash over have set you up in your basement or something but i wouldn't live in a house if i didn't have space for one right literally is that important to you to me it's massive anytime got something i'm thinking about trying to work on or you know new material and ideas i go i go through jujitsu moves in there i gotta go through scenarios all all visually spar okay yeah it's amazing yeah it's it's you don't get an opportunity to have the mind at its full resource capacity other than in that tank in this world really bombard yeah sensation of all kinds judy
and apart and can't wait to talk to you after you get out have you seen this new skull that they found the one point eight million year old human skull yeah this is a amazing discovery that they found this first sweetly preserved and we say they all commented from the early pleistocene yeah yeah yeah if you can pull that up jamie one point eight million year old skull but it's it's a really amazing find and they found it in georgia in eastern europe and the fifth such skull from this region but it's one point eight million years at all that's that's revealed that is that is yeah there it is right here is what we've seen fear of any still images of it from but uh these uh they're completely it's thrown a gigantic monkey wrench into
our timeline of human evolution they found stone tools and cut marks on animal bones which indicates the hominids were actively involved in meat processing this is amazing but it is it a recognizable species of early man has quite prominent yes it's awesome it's some sort of early man what they're calling it let's see what they are calling it they haven't it hasn't received a name yet have they did lucy and any idea about the size of the brain um that's a good question they're calling it skull five it says your skull five is different different even in the four of the skulls found in dimassi's the name the area
in two thousand and five and completely and ultimately match to jaw found in two thousand to make it complete skull after eight years of study scientists on thursday published a paper in the journal of science revealing that skull five is simply not that different from others the five demand amanda see individuals are no more different from each other than any five modern humans or chimpanzees said neurobiologists blah blah blah so the brain case itself is very small around the third of the size of modern humans ok and at the same time or full face is quite large yeah i mean i'm not sure i'm not sure i need to read it i'm not sure how much that changes history i mean we now that they were humans is around one one point eight one point nine the frances is we're making tools two one slash two million years ago so this is this is within that well within that time frame i think what
what it's showing us is that they've been many lines of human down down through the ages and like like this one that they called how big do you know florian is trying little creature which lived until eighteen of sixty thousand years ago in flores in in indonesia that was completely unpredicted as well there may maybe there been many human types and we don't know where we actually come from in this hole in this whole picture yeah these last hominids that they keep discovering like home oh florien sis and like that russian one they found that was basically forty thousand years old a completely different species so humid a soviet yes yes fascinating fascinating stuff forty thousand years ago a blink of an eye nothing else is complete different type of human yeah yeah so again i would it adds up to his realization that we know nothing actually we we know very little we we come out mystery we live in mystery and we ended mystery have you
part of the orang pendek ever heard of ashes cryptozoology but yeah that's my lazier yes but my wife comes from malaysia and and it's a kind of yeti malaysian yeti or malaysian bigfoot once tiny but but but it's a it's a wild creature man like creature that lives in the lives in the woods well very similar to home oh florian safari so the suggestion is orange pen deck is houma floresiensis or whatever it's called still alive so that's the idea hanging out in the world it would sound ridiculous but this home of what it was called hobbit man this hobbit man was only thirty in fourteen thousand years ago results within the within the sp and almost of human history i mean go beckley tempe and turkey where i've just been is twelve thousand plus years old yeah making these massive great megalithic pillars there so this
each creature in flores is just that period just the same same ages that so the world was was filled with with all kinds of different creatures by the way on talking about into these i'm going to into the sea on the third of december because there's been a new sites are rather an old site which has been radically re dated in indonesia really which is called good i'm cut out not that far from florists as a matter of fact it's megalithic sites with with gigantic basalt columns and this place has been known since the early twenty century thought to be about three or four thousand years old but there's an australian geologist called danny hellman who's been working for the indonesian government on a site survey for the last five years and he's just in the last month or two come out with this explosive finding that he thinks this it is possibly as much as twenty thousand years old which a megalithic site twenty thousand years old that completely rewrites history go beckley tempe
he pretty much rewrite history but this place in indonesia totally does it and when you take the two together so i'm gonna go out and take a look at that site to meet on him what is the name of it again the spelling and cuddling will good i'm putting i may be able to show you a picture of it there james put it up it's going to happen yeah that is totally good and padding i use pictures so all these stones and that made them date this to twenty thousand years what was the change so the previous dating is just been based on the surface layers and danny hellman and his team have been down deep into this man made hill on top of which the surface layers stand and they've they've gone all the way down and they're finding big megalith right down at the bottom and finding associated carbon that allows them to date it to up to twenty thousand years old so this is i mean this is a real huge game that's taking place there they dated when they carbon dated down to twenty thousand years old is it based on organic material has to be yeah click on that you cut date stone but what i do is you get into undisturbed layers deep down in the
man made hell that we're looking at on the screen right now you get into undisturbed layers where you're finding megaliths at the bottom covered covered by earth being covered by earth for twenty thousand years an amongst that earth is organic material fragments of bone fragments of charcoal that you can date accommodating so you can then say that those megaliths are at least that old it at least most likely much older they match older than that but there at least that old and the weird thing with this that this place has in common with go beckley tempe is that both of are man made hills which appear to have had some kind of deliberate burial the alien less like a like a like a time capsule so i get this feeling that you know stuff is some stuff is coming out stuff is stuff is coming out into the open is being being for a long time or or ignored or just not not reckoned with for a very very long time well go back
happy was a real game changer because that was the first time that they had found anything that you had to date back to at least twelve thousand a year yeah go back to type it correctly type is really is really important and that's why i was i was glad to be able to go there in september and spend a lot of time just gently getting to getting to know this site the reason the reason it's important is be cause it was deliberately buried and watch it raises is i just want to show you this cover from new scientist magazine can we can we show yeah sure there it is the true dawn we get that will pull it up
all have jamie pull it up civilization is older and more mysterious than we thought wow new scientist magazine new scientist magazine in the beginning of october two thousand and thirteen new scientist was one of the magazines that attacked me massively back in nineteen ninety five when i publish fingerprints of the gods and what did i say is in fingerprints of the gods civilization is much older and much more mysterious than we thought and now they come out with this cover you know it's like i gotta feel a certain certain feeling of i don't know almost smugness oh yeah sure you can hear your voice you just get all giddy it's fun i mean space flat and to see them doing that and the reason they're saying that is it got a lot to do with rebecca tapping because because gobekli tepe e is it's something completely and predicted that that what are supposed to be hunting another is at the end of the upper paleolithic would not suppose to have the kind of
and i say tional skills the architectural skills to put together a gigantic megalithic circles there's one of the one of the pillows that i went and took a look at which they did not they never removed quarry because they found a fault in it it wasn't that they couldn't remove it they found a fault in it and that one weighs more than fifty cons you know such gigantic piece of stone and the other intriguing thing about correctly teifi is which i learned from clash met when i was talking to him is they've done ground pennant getting radar so right now when you go to the site you see four sub star stone circles on the scale of stonehenge above ground could you put the microphone closer for yes are some seasonal want anybody yeah yet when you go to when you go to go back to tapping now you see you see a group of stone circles for them above there it is there and and what they've done is they've done ground penetrating radar
over the site and they found that at least twenty times as many stone circles are still underground and possibly as many as fifty times as many so it's just uh ganttic site and and why it's important is that whoever made it twelve thousand years ago deliberately buried it thousand years later ten thousand years ago so that meant that the carbon date record has not been contaminated by later cultures it's a perfect pristine time capsule and lo and behold the day that it prints out is twelve thousand years old now that then raises questions over lots of other megalithic sites all over the world which have been contaminated by late two cultures the the make this excites of malta for example look very like go beckley tempe they look very like beckley happy they're only supposed to be five thousand years old i would not say we need to we to do that evidence because those sites were contaminated by later
maybe the carbon on which they would dated was introduced by a later culture maybe it doesn't belong to the the period of the construction of the megalith this alone this one discovery alone really it is a huge game changer now we know the people were capable of doing something like that twelve thousand years ago and and and not and not to tell us to be underestimated because you're you're in an area where there isn't a lot of water available so you you you you bring in hundreds of people you're organizing them into teams to construct these gigantic megalithic circles you're feeding them your watering them you have you have site planning an arrangement all of this is the kind of stuff that you expect much later in human history you don't expect it twelve thousand years ago and it raises that big question you know could there could there be a loss of lies ation would be looking at the work perhaps of the survivor so the loss of how do we know that they covered it intentionally there's uh
the bridge in filled the nature of the of the earth that's been put into it you can pretty much say here will people with spades pouring this earth in all in one girl filling it and amongst the earth arab it's there are fragments of bone there are frameworks of carbon and that's how they that's how they updated it it's not it's not a it's not a natural sedimentation that built up over a long period of time it's it's something that was done all at once in a planned and organized way so for some reason and the german archaeologist who's running the site is not clear what this reason was for some reason whoever created this place decommissioned it at a certain point about ten thousand years ago they closed it down and then then this is the area for the next ten thousand years it remained untouched and nobody went there and nobody we saw it back in the 50s some american archaeologists were attracted to the site they saw we have cut stone lying on the surface and the cut stone was so good that they conclude
did it was recent they thought it must be from the ottoman period you know fifteen one thousand six hundred something like that and they ignored it and it was really a lucky ten of the spade by close met this this german archeologist that revealed that that's not the case of tool and that these are twelve thousand year old megalithic pillars and not only that so we this incredible innovation in architecture taking place stone circles on the scale of stonehenge but seven thousand years earlier than stonehenge being created happy but at the same time mysteriously agriculture starts to appear in that area that hasn't been agriculture there before or anyway so far as we know and suddenly as to appear that domesticating cattle there domesticating wheat and beginning this is the beginning of the agricultural revolution so it's like a center of innovation that we do it that we're doing something unique as far we know in human history in terms of architecture with doing something unique in terms of i can
it's producing the first the first agriculture and i i can't help feeling that that that this thing happened so sudden and in such an extraordinary way that maybe maybe is the the missing link we're looking at we're looking at the fingerprints of a lost civilization the survivors of a lost civilization who settled there with all these skills already in place and interest just them into the local culture because this period twelve thousand years ago plus is the period when the earth went through gigantic cataclysmic events because it was struck by a comet yeah that's the that's the other piece of the puzzle the nuclear glass that they found out how do you say this stuff trying try night tight trinity trinity trinity tight and that they we have found this stuff all over europe and all over asia all over the world at that precise moment precise twelve thousand years ago and a layer of platinum indiana greenland
because all of this says earth was hit by a comet at that time send the holocene well that's the beginning of this the end of this is this the beginning of the hollister holocene is our period is the period we we still live in now but it's the in in archaeological terms it's the juncture between the upper paleolithic in the neolithic that's that's what we're that's what we're talking about here uh and you have this episode that geologists called the younger dryers which is episode of of sudden deep freeze strikes the earth the earth has been emerging from the ice age until twelve thousand nine hundred and eighty years ago and amazingly you can date it that precisely give or take five is this happened twelve thousand nine hundred and eighty years ago and then
only the s slips into this thousand year deep freeze but nobody's ever been a two x able to explain before that they called the younger dryas and now we can say for sure that the younger dryas was caused by huge amounts of dust being projected into the upper atmosphere of the earth by this comet impact and that that dust in shroud but the whole earth and set in motion a kind of what we would call a nuclear winter today where where that sun's rays could no longer reach the earth and the earth went back into a deep freezer to me this is the smoking gun that
just as a whole civilization and i was just yesterday i was i i was i've come here from north carolina and i sat down with them randall carlson who has been met him you met round yeah very very fascinating man and he's been working away quietly on the subject for years and years and years long before the evidence was in for a comment he was predicting that this is what caused it that there was a comet impact and he's got this very very fascinating theory and he's going to take me next year on a on a field trip into the pacific northwest and into canada to look at to look at areas where there were these massive outflows of floods from the ice cap and what randall is suggesting is that at least some large fragments of the comet that hit the earth twelve thousand nine hundred and eighty years ago actually hit the ice cap they landed on the ice cap which will still then a mile deep and they pulver they turned it into water immediately and that's why you have these gigantic outburst floods which carried down huge bold
construe them all over the all over the landscape is very very exciting theory and it's and it's great to see randle's work being being vindicated because he's been ignored for far too long and i'm looking for we're doing a fascinating field trip with him next next year yeah i met him in georgia many years ago at the punchline comedy club had along and really interesting comments conversation about him with him rather about the holocene comment yes and that's exactly what he's talking about yeah he's he's one of these guys who is just so far ahead of his time that nobody saw it no nobody realized what he was on to now everybody understands that the f was hit by a comet and this being a big scientific argument about this over the last five or six years but is really settled now the evidence that the all over the world
it's clear that this happened but randall was on to this year's before anybody else and what he's done what he's also doing is just taking it taking it that bit further because we have these mysterious floods that occurred in precisely that period which have traditionally been cold outburst floods the idea was that the the ice apps gradually melting down filled up these huge clay c lakes and that eventually the ice dam and closing the grace place the lake would break but now it looks like we're looking at ice dams a thousand feet high in order to account for the massive flow of water and what randall suggesting is that that theory is actually wrong it wasn't the outburst flood grace il lakes it was a comet hitting the ice cap that turned on the ice to water and produce the judge can take gigantic outflows carrying down boulders you know the size of houses and dumping them over the landscapes ana and
and then you have to consider anything that lay in the way of those floods and the that lay in the path of floods on that scale is gone gone completely wiped out from human memory and you also have to consider the fact we absolutely know that these events have taken place in a much greater scale over the course of the earth yeah he's been mass extinction of and so this this is not preposterous this not proposed logical it's completely logical and it's time that historians and archaeologists abandoned the model that everything just proceed smoothly and gently in the way that we've seen doing for the last few hundred years which is called uniformity arianism and and a brace the thought that that cataclysmic events are a key part of the history of the earth and and we no this already this massive amount of evidence for it it doesn't it's not something we even need to argue about my history proceeds on the basis that there is no such thing as a cataclysm yeah in fact it cataclysms that have written the story of human history well
only that when you stop and look at all the ancient stories the epic of gilgamesh the bible the flood of the art exactly there's so many stories and evolved cataclysmic events all about floods and cataclysm the idea that those are just fiction is kind of silly totally totally crazy and they all say that this is there was a golden age that there was a former that there was a former civilization that that mankind had had had a change to a very high level then we angered the gods it's often put that way we angered but we fell out of harmony with the universe there was something went wrong there was some kind of moral yes please i would love some of this is filled some kind of moral decline now like now right now this is what i what i often say that if i were to look at our civilization in myth mythical terms there's
it would be the civilization that look more like the next lost civilization than ours i don't want to spread gloom and doom i don't believe in spreading gloom and doom i think we should think positive and i've said earlier and i and i maintain this i'm very optimistic about the future of the human race but let's not pretend that it's all roses in the garden this is the terrible things are happening in the world today we have an unbelievable arrogance unbelievable fried cruelty the an economic model that that makes million stemming countless millions incredibly poor and allows tiny tiny numbers to be incredibly obscenely rich and and and the whole system is skewed in the interest of that tiny tiny fraction of one percent of the wealthy and unfortunately it's really is as bad as it's possible to get in america the it's been this bad in many other countries to it is really bad in america the skewing of the skewing of wealth and and and the brain washing of the population to keep people quiet to stop people think of the mind control operates in our society it's like a pressure cooker something's something's got to give an
and and ours is a culture which is literally destroying the earth i the amazon jungle this amazing sacred realm credible home of biodiversity this this beautiful beautiful play is the destruction that's taking place now only a soc that truly insane could allow that to happen and that's unfortunately society today so we need to wake up and you want to talk about the writing on the wall as far as the by a powerful advanced civilization being completely wiped off the earth how about our writing is all going to the cloud we have this we
this crazy trend where everything is going into these databases and hard drives and when those are destroyed there will be nothing to hold on to nothing to read all of our knowledge of the memory i mean it's almost insuring that there will be nothing remaining total wipeout yeah so this side this idea that i've that i've talked about many times over the years that we are a species with them easier yes we are going to be a species with families it began battles again and and our culture has not has not at all looked at the at oral traditions we've destroyed the oral tradition you know we put getting into the written form now beamed it up to the cloud and data one one disaster it's all gone and at lee in a written form you have books we don't even have books anymore we have electron to updates yeah it's so
easy to think that all it takes is one asteroid to impact that wipes out the grid and all that stuff's gonna list of ski can access it anymore you have to rebuild the entire power grid nature and the future i mean if we lose one or two generations if we had a holocene type incident again or a big comet hit and wiped out fifty percent of the population and we had to sort of re figure out databases and refigure out hard drives were not we're going to gather food and we're going to figure out agriculture we're going to figure out some real primitive ways to live live but most that stuff with thirty four generations later is gone it's gone completely completely gone and and and yeah i i mean we have these gigantic populations now based in cities where where actually the food supplies incredibly fragile it's it's like two or three days of food is available in any city at any time consider the implications of that if that supply chain by
it's down and we it was very clear on record now look what's just happened in the philippines look at her hurricane katrina we cannot deal with natural disasters yeah going to man that was a really really scary one does the philippines superstorm storm the size of germany you know believable thank who sings ten thousand more people killed an very slow reactions to do to do anything about it we have very bad the human race we got all this tech we got all this wealth we got all this complacency but actually when when the universe strikes us we are unable to do anything about and and that's was true in the most wealthy country in the world in america as we saw with her can country and this is three times bigger than three guys because they they showed some a city that was two hundred thousand people and there's not a single structure left standing yeah unbelievable just and that by the way
there have been bigger ones they've been bigger storms throughout history than that there's been bigger impacts than the holocene one and the other about the universe is that our orbit like where we are is stable and we have the moon which helps our orbit but be still but there's hundreds of thousands of near earth objects that are just floating around out there that could easily come down collide into each other slamming the earth and that's a wrap absolutely this is this again is something is something that needs to be taken very very seriously again i want to say let's emphasize the positive and let's emphasize i thing but let's also be rational and reasonable and when you look at the orbits of astros cold apollo objects it's like looking at a cat's cradle of harm that is surrounding this precious jewel of a of a of a of a planet and we do even know them all we we know a tiny fraction of the west becomes clear is we only know a little bit of
i think some of them ten miles wide which a wing in through you know i had a space and and can hit us at any time and then comments then come at some some some comments can have thousand year orbits the suggestion that we're seeing a lot of increased meteor activity as well right now a lot of a lot of action going on and the suggestion again rather carson's work has been really important in this area is the torrid the torrid the natori showers that remains of a disintegrated comet comment in shower maybe huge things the size of cities which are which are flowing through and crossing the orbit of the earth regularly it's just pretty pretty lights in the sky at one day one day we going to run into something something the size of new york you know which is going to going to hit us so this is a matter for for keren concern and and again look what we do you know we spent we've we spend
i mean billions trillions limitless endless amounts of money and inventing new ways to destroy each other and very little on actually looking at on how to how to protect the earth could they protect the earth from something like that well if we don't look into it we certainly won't have an answer to that question but some of them don't they come from behind the sun and we can't see them because they gravity you can't see them come he can't see them come but but if the kind of the kind of focused scientific effort that we're presently that is presently put into creating weapons of mass destruction so that we can all fight each other if that kind of effort were put into making sure that we uh stand the orbit of every single asteroid that's out there we identify them and find them but we'd be a lot then we are today is no profit in that graham hancock and i know what i want our corporate service the cardholders to do it's ridiculous or yeah yeah it's on this mimics the cyclical nature of life itself it seems
like civilization builds up to this incredible point where it's like completely out of control and it was just reckless and wild and then gets knocked down and then build back up again and pulls it and it's almost i'm not so testing that these things floating around in space are there for a reason but if they were mean they would be like little reset buttons a little reset buttons yeah i mean and maybe that's what happened to dinosaurs got it that's why the that's why the ancient mythology which consistently says right or wrong consistently says that mankind is implicated in these cataclysms our behavior our wickedness is implicated in this in some way i think it's worth listening to a little bit and and maybe maybe this this this time we don't have to go through the reset maybe maybe it's possible for mankind to actually wake up now that we are globally connected now that we do have this possibility of all talking to one of
the before it's too late we can reset ourselves in a positive direction feel the only way we would is if we knew something was coming yeah i think that's almost the only way and we would have to be informed and then we would have to believe it and then they would be disputes and i'm sure the republicans would start blast nonsense we're actually right here the same scientists have brought you climate change are telling you right now is a mystery henninger rang suddenly they would they would they would say that jesus is going to protect us what we need to do is cut taxes for corporations and perfect insure that we can move to mexico in our factories yeah i i wonder i wonder if we would really pay attention if we knew that we had a year left if we had a year to go and there's just that think of that what a difference what it what it what a situation that would be think of that we barely pay attention to what we're doing that's really obvious like the polluting of the ocean or the the destroying of the the the the point
this is the fish out of the ocean in the alarming more a rate that doesn't allow them to recover in say all of it about the pursuit of short term profits yeah all of it about immediate payoffs nobody nobody thinking long term again i come back to this we are a deranged society and and the little node of salati are beginning to wake up all around the world but maybe it's not not enough time that doesn't also go back to what you were saying about psychedelics and how beneficial psychedelics can be because one of the main themes of iowa osca is save the planet is save the planet it's a universal theme of ayawaska sooner or later
anybody who works with i enough is going to stop picking up that message that this beautiful earth that we have this gift that the universe has given us is precious beyond measure precious beyond imagination and that we are part of it and that we must we must treated with love and respect and reverence rather than in the in the horrific way that we do and the part of treating the planet with love respect and reverence is treating fellow human beings with love and respect to reference at every at every level this is a very strong message of i was skit is a message it is fundamentally a message of not in a wishy washy way but in a really firm and clear away that is the salvation of the human there's a big city you know the law love is the opposite of fear fear fear is what is what prices are buttons today is what's used deliberately to press up buttons and and what's the opposite of that is is love that's what we yeah and bill hicks had a lot of mushrooms folks
bill hicks is a lot of mushrooms and what a brilliant brilliant man he was oh yeah he's one of my comedy heroes yeah for sure there's a nineteen year old inventor who found a way to clean up the world's ocean in under five years time he this great pacific garbage patch this young kid has figured out this machine that would absorb all the plastic material in the ocean really fascinating stuff theirs is an article about it on like this is v r dash zone dot com but i'm sure if you do a google search on that you can find some well different sites that have covered that but it's this is machine that would essentially sit in the center of the ocean and start sucking all the plastic up with i have a huge huge huge problem with this this plastic in the ocean is something that no one even considered until roughly a decade or so ago when they say
being aware that all this not that were littering on you know whether it's throwing off of boats or just finds its way the ocean through drainage pipes or what have you we're dealing with a massive massive amount of material an material that's not biodegradable that's being turned into like this sludgy sort of shity stuff that's floating around there's a kind of symbol of everything is wrong with our culture actually yeah it really is and but there is this guy's idea going to be taken off his arm well hopefully i mean it's pretty amazing that this nineteen year old kid what might the poll being that what i've so fascinating is that when our back is up against the wall like when someone realized oh my god we have this country sized patch of plastic it's floating around in the ocean when you're back is up against a wall people start thinking when people start thinking they start innovating when they start innovating solutions come about and maybe even a solution when they say hey you know what that plastic
is actually you could turn that in the stuff that actually could be used as fuel that actually could be used to create things that actually can be used in a beneficial way but then the problem is going to be how do you keep people from continuing the same process and re polluting it again want to clean it up yeah yeah psychedelic yeah that might be the only way the realization that the huge kick up the ass that comes with a with with a major responsibly taken so i can and then there's also the challenge of our current trend in these gigantic cities these gigantic cities aren't sustainable they're not agriculturally sustainable in known sustainable so like how do you how do you how do you figure out a way to stop the trend of these gigantic cities or provide food or with figure out a way to be in a sustainable environment still have modern conveniences and technology in medicine and all those you know very difficult yeah very very difficult problem if possible how to how to solve it
like all of these gigantic problems if begin to solve them at our personal level within our own sphere of influence within where we live in our relationships with other human beings that's a good start that's that's where we do paradise where we do have chose we cannot change the world any one of us but we can change the way we interact with other yeah and it seems like that's probably the best way to fix this whole mess is to fix it on my macro scale or a microscope microscope fix it it individuals and spread it like a virus i had this newfound realization of what we're really doing what are impact really is the awareness an this sort newfound idea of an activity that we have and that were thing to grasp ahold of because of this internet culture because of this new area
this new new new area in history this got a level of information this new level of the mission that's that's that's that's where it's happening and and that's that sweat where i take hope you know because i i meet young people every time i go out and give it give it give a lecture give it give a talk i i meet i meet young people who come there and they're thinking in a new way ideas of nationalism and it is a model that bill should have gone these people are thinking in terms of of humanity as a whole and and and and thinking in terms of what a glorious gift the universe has given us with this planet and we have to live right there there is a tremendous spirit in the world when one of the benefits of travel is that travel sort of erodes the idea of nationalism in a way where you meet these people in these other countries and you realize well they're just like me just like they mean they might talk in a different accent or a speaker different language but they're just people an ice
one of the reasons why people have nationalism is based on a fear of those other people again fear is the theme yeah and this is fear that can be manipulated the the powers that that run the world at the moment are deliberately manipulating all the time to divide us from one another dentist from realizing and amongst those powers are of course all of the big states and the government had does an hour of course all of the big religions chrissy the judaism and islam are all in the sea of business as well their role in generating fear in telling us that this is the only way to do things and we are different and this is the this is the right way to do things of that is the wrong way to do things and that's the old model the big corporations that part of that too you know you have to rely on us we will be the us a two year old all your problems such bullshit that's the old model and that's the that's the model that is bit by bit day by day one step at a time one brick at a time getting replaced it truly isn't it and the model of government itself is a giant chunk of fear with a little bit of hope
there's a lot of herpes allies yes yes hope is all silly i mean the hope is basically bulshit provided by corporations so they can keep fracking it's like yeah the honestly thought it fracking you know yeah all fear all fear fear generated and this is what we what we need to move beyond government i think the way we've known it for the last century's on the way it what it's come to today it's done it's over it's stories it's hanging on it's fucking everything up sadly as it can but it is done that is that is a model that will no longer work eight whether or not it wants to or not it will slowly be phased out i think that when you're when you're talking about it's interesting that i think that the very practices that it's using right now that our government is using are going to aid its own to mine yes the practices of the nsa monitoring everybody's email and and customer buying on a soap so
dick us socially where people are just like completely up in arms and upset about and also that technological trend is going to lead to ultimate truth yeah that's a real issue with the government because a guy it relies on deception and bullshit and bribery in special interest groups absolutely absolutely can't keep that up if you have alternate truth of your alternate access to information and the boundaries between people and information are all gone how we gonna run a country yeah the so the seeds of their own destruction are are already planted in the mechanisms that putting in place yeah it's it it's they can it's like well if you ever seen there's a a method of hunting walls that the eskimos use with it would take a very sharp knife and put
the ground put blood on the knife and wolf would come along and start to lift the knife because of the blood on the knife taste his own blood and continued to lick and bite the blade and bleed to death i didn't know that the astro to that actually happens yeah yeah it's a method that the the the anyway people devised a hunting roles they would plant these knives in the in the ice yeah and that's what our governments exactly they're they're they're looking their own blood and they don't even realize it but these things like that perfect example is i don't know if you know the story in our country of general petraeus who is the head of the cia was exposed through the head of the cia is that that's supposedly the number once by in the country right that's in the head well he he was he was fired
because it was exposed he was having an affair and that a fair that the x affair was a c exposed through email exchanges with the f b i exam of the cia so the f b i is riding on the cia and getting rid of the number one c i a guys through email yes transparency in email exchanges absolutely completely fascinated is because it's that this is the core this is the main government entity that's involved in spying you know other than the nsa and it's just it all it like you guys are gonna get exposed to everyone's gonna get explosives getting exposed and the the real problem isn't in affairs i mean affairs obviously or an issue but the rue the real problem is going to be in the structure of power itself and what when the influences so clearly exposed the inference whether it's a special interest groups of corporations of lobbyists
whatever it is when it's so clearly expose that it cannot be tolerated by rational people come bearish anymore there's a growing anger about all of this this is of what the what the the people in the people in big government who are who advocating this continual surveillance an invasion of our privacy in every in every post with the don't getting that anger in society people are just not prepared to put up with this any longer and i think it's a great thing because i think there's nothing wrong with government there's nothing wrong with having a mayor there's nothing wrong with having a president is nothing wrong with police as long as everyone's honest and rational and ethical treatment is the key the track is like and those who forced to do that it's not like you were advocating that the government needs to be destroyed and anarchy nonsense we want on a government possible yeah and if it's forced then then then it's forced but if it's forced because of technology and innovation instead of some
crazy radical violent revolution it's just as powerful just as powerful to change it change more much much an undeniable can't just build up a wall to keep the internet out no definite definite the truth the truth is the truth is key this is what matters and also also those who go who who go into into in into government they shouldn't be they shouldn't be this huge status and power associated with it you know it's it's a it's a mistake that should be it should be done it should be the person who doesn't want to go into government that's the person should be in yeah i it's unfortunate that is how it's been a long time it's the people that should shouldn't be president of the ones that want to be president it's been that way for a long time give them ayawaska ha i would hope
but i would hope also that the trend is moving i mean if you go back to these people that were talking about that existed these pre humans that existed one point eight million years ago and the way they can conducted each other conducted their lives and then and how we conduct our lives in two thousand and thirteen has been a massive incredible amount of progress in understanding each other that this trend will continue and that if we don't get hit by some got a giant meteor that we will ultimately reach a level of understanding that will sort of make this happen whether or not psychedelics are involved or not that will will just reach this level as i say it's happening it's happened it's happening now it's interesting that psychedelics are a catalyst in it the the they come up again and again in the conversation on what it boils down to is the the record and i've been hanging out about this for a long time there the recognition of the adults sovereign in all that we have a right to explore our own consciousness that is a grotesque invasion of our
see sovereignty over our own bodies that the government would would even have that the two to suggest that it's got a right to punish us for doing that but this is that it's not the two of the psychedelics themselves is the issue of the right to make sovereign decisions about our own bodies in our own consciousness and this i see a big awakening all over the world taking place i litmus test i agree and it's it's one of those things were going to look back on through history and what the way we look at the inquisition the way we look at burning which is where we're gonna look at the prosecution of people for using psychedelics and is just as ridiculous light back on it with horror yeah as a as a horrific episode when human society made terrible mistakes your book supernatural is a fascinating book i really enjoyed that and that details the concept of hume beings learning from psychedelic experiences and actually it giving
to a new level of creativity and and new level of culture yeah i i believe that that there's there's no doubt the psychedelics have played a huge unrecognized role in the human story and i want to pay tribute to turn i for being one of the early people to recognize that again in so many ways terence mckenna adjusted incredible genius that stoned ape theory that that that that he came up with is absolutely key to this and again he was far ahead of his time academics followed behind him in this in this that we we need to recognize that these demonized plants have played a huge huge role in the human story just in my recent travels in south america i was in a place called corral two hundred two hundred kilometers north of lima in
so now back in the 90s people were saying that there was no there could be no relationship between old world pyramids and new world pyramids because all the pyramids in the new world were much younger that story is now gone as a result of carol and another site banduria in peru which are definitively one thousand five hundred to three thousand bc the same date that is put on the the great pyramids of giza it's fascinating at corral is a couple of things firstly there was a big city complex that five thousand years ago and absolutely no evidence of warfare whatsoever was traditionally was believed that the evolution of cities was connected with warfare in some way that people came in cities to protect themselves from war no warfare none what so these people do make war secondly they were using psychedelics quite clear evidence of this so you know this is an exam and part of the human story needs to be brought back into prominence and we need to realize we owe a lot to the visionary plants and we making a mistake
to create a society that seeks to cut cut us off from that source of learning and source of teaching is not an accident in the amazon that they call these plants teachers they are teachers and i think it's also very fascinating that the the academic world has the in in many ways in many respects specially the older academic world the grew up without the internet has turned their back on the concept of psychedelics being beneficial to the point where it's laughed at and pooh poohed to the point where we can less psychedelic stoned ape theory is if you don't know the theory his theory involves the evolution of humans the doubling of the human brain size directly related to the consumption of like mushrooms it's an incredibly controversial theory but when i had i can on the podcast dennis explained it in a very scientific way that would show how the psychic the consumption of psychedelic mushrooms would correlate with the creating of language with the expansion of consciousness at it's an incredibly intricate and detailed idea that
completely ignored by so many mainstream people but if they have had excuse me if they have had any psychedelic experience themselves they would know what an incredibly different experience that is the normal state of consciousness if you were looking for a culprit a thing would change conscious beings or intelligent beings like lower hominids something that would just rock them out of their current state better things fenton psychedelic drugs what other culprits that you could connect to a doubling of the human brain size tribute to a bunch of different things like consumption of fish
throwing arm all these different things like don't bears eat fish not the stupidest i guess it'll make a threes will help a little but man what's a you humans are a different thing and it's a very different thing and and yeah i mean i have i have no doubt in my mind it if it was like that it's the play that role a mess was one thing that i looked at him in in supernatural was one this whole issue of the cave art because that's where you know that's where in the long evolutionary story of the human species you suddenly find us confronting ourselves we looking at this amazing symbolic are this incredible incredible works and these very misty various erie spaces that you go into like the cave of lascaux
and said from the nature of the art itself it's clear it was visionary art these were these were people who were working with psychedelics and painting their visions justice shamans doing the i was in today did you see werner herzog's documentary i did the team of sade dreams about sure yeah just i mean where it wasn't like forty thousand plus years ago this thirty three thirty three thousand years ago okay cable show amazing amazing place yeah
it's so strange to think that these people it's so hard for us to when you get to a number even one thousand years it's like i can't see it i can't it's too far away it's almost like it's over the curve of the earth it's like one thousand years is hard for me to wrap my head around what it was like the gangus khan era it's wide thirty three thousand yeah that's where it gets like incredibly squirrelly an when you talk to guys like john anthony w to start talking about the hieroglyphs that pic to civilization and not just that but name the pharaohs of thirty one thousand years ago it's salute lee there's a i mean this is something that really annoys me about egyptology and john anthony w is just such a brilliant man he's an old old friend of mine going great way back to the 90s super super guy and he's done so much to bring to light the mysteries and the magic of hd and he's absolutely right because you go to the temple of set to the fest in that with us and you will see a mural a call
update didn't in high relief on a wall in the corridor which shows the pharaoh seti the first showing his young son rameses the second a list of all the pharaohs have ruled before their time now this is called a king list and the g ologists they take these king lists and they use them as the basis for the chronology that we are given of ancient egypt is it fits into their reference frame king list is is fine it's accepted back to three thousand bc the first dynasty when civilization is supposed to have begun they then completely ignore the fact that the king list continues long before that for tens of thousands of years as much as thirty six thousand years before that list of pharaohs on the time when the gods walked the earth all of this is in the king lists as well so the you the egyptologist grab the bit that fits that prejudice and ignore the rest and say i will the ancient egyptians were just making that up
yeah and then there's of course the water erosion on the sphinx that john anthony w and robert schoch exposed which is really opinion one of the most undeniable things that i've heard people tonight yeah that is what is one of the most of it is one of the most important pieces of evidence for or a lost civilization it and and and this is john at the westin professor robert shock at boston university the the the evidence that the great sphinx was rained upon for thousands and thousands of years now what's what's interesting and again go back to ted becomes into this story is that egyptologists at the time said look there's no way that the sphinx could be twelve thousand years old the geological evidence must be wrong becaus if there was a culture that was capable of creating a monument on the scale of the sphinx twelve thousand years ago while why
find other monuments at a twelve thousand years old other big monuments and they regarded that as the killer argument against the geological whether any of the sphinx that that you know the shock and west must just be wrong well now we have go back happy and it is twelve thousand years old and it is on the scale of the sphinx and it's not even that far from this things you know and the suddenly that old argument about the sphinx which was dismissed by academia back in the 90s they're going to have to reconsider it very very very carefully that often has to host a documentary on the sphinx which is on a string he was on nbc it was on nbc i watched it as i found an incredibly fasting but in for in fury aiding when you hear that egyptologists just let nothing at roberts shock saying where's the evidence of this culture show me the pot shed and what's crazy is what do you think it would be there when you're dealing with something that's that old
well as i said about one thousand years being over the horizon i can't see it twelve thousand years you might as well just be speaking another language i don't understand my stupid brain can't rap my head around how long ago that is terribly terribly what would be left if you left a car outside for twelve thousand years he came back twelve thousand years later thing you'd find zero nothing absolutely the earth would just re absorb it will rain and what would be left would be the stones yeah that's what we that's what we're left with i was just into an arco in bolivia and there are stone structures there beautifully cut unbeliever precision cutting of the stone they look to me like they had metal parts fitted into them at some point the metals the stone is left and where left to wonder what was
on that so yeah it the the passage of time rubs out old memory and all traces and and and and it's very easy to get the wrong idea about the past but places like berkeley tapi bases like good i'm putting into these are going to change this what year did people start using metal you know the ancient egyptians they they do that but they they knew meteoritic iron the only form of our land that was available to the edge of the gypsies was on that came in in meteorites and there is the odd knife that's been crafted from meteoritic rn but metal that they used if you go back to three thousand or two thousand eight hundred bc was copper but not a way of hardening the copper some lost technique of making the copper harder that was that was definitely
the present how do we know that this is the orthodox view that i'm right because because the couple was used to cut stone and couple you cut cut stone with copper is way too soft so they must have been some method of making the copper hotter this is this is the argument but this is the orthodox view we don't really know you know what what maybe metal wasn't the only way to cut stone this is where i maybe get a little bit mystical but maybe you know because our society has done things a certain way that we use mechanical advantage that we use machine tools that we want to look for that in the past but maybe maybe there are all sorts of untapped faculties of the human mind that the agents were working with in one way or the senate when you go to a place like it's a one man in peru outside of cusco and you see these gigantic blocks of stone hundred one hundred and fifty tons each fitted together like so puzzled the edges kind of melting into one another the that some sort of heat might have been used to shape these stones begins to make weird kind of sense some sort of he he tia
it's fascinating and it was vitrified stone up there i've in my in my journey in peru i spent i spent several days with the local guy cold cases camara who is now seventy seven years old and his father alfredo gemara was working on that site back at the beginning of the 1900s and an they as a family have been studying the megaliths of the andes for one hundred plus years now and they actually descended from the anchors so you would i think if anybody had an investment in saying that the incas made all this it would be them but they say no he says kumar is adamant the inca i've been wrongly handed the majority of architecture in the andes by archaeology the in only did a fraction of it and most of what they did was pretty poor quality the great stuff was done by alien civilizations and he took me and he showed me vitrified stone which has been subjected to fantastic heat and melted and shines in a way that's really stunning and striking and convincing when you see it that
kind of technology that is not the technology that we use today was being employed to put these stones into place and i'll kill have mr such ideas for a very long time but i'm not sure how much longer they're going to be able to dismiss them i don't know how they can dismiss those enormous stones that have strange shapes that are fitting like a check so it was like it was like giants a hundred feet tall decided to make a three dimensional jigsaw yet tell jamie what those images would be to pull those up will they be i may be a final show you an image for let have him pull it off and also cites a form as a c s a y h u a m a n sucks and it's also there's one stone that giorgio tsoukalos showed me where it was carved out of this piece of stone there's this slab car through the back of it and removed and
they don't have no idea how they got through this stone and cut yeah they look at that image all my god that's me which yeah pull it towards you this works this way no no just flatten yeah there you go that's since that's you standing next that's only standing standing next that stone look at the way those stones are fitted together you know i mean that is that is a really monstrous thing to do it's a jet just a gigantic work of art yeah they've created and and it goes on for hundreds of feet this is not just the food was not just that section it goes on for ever in these these huge walls and it does feel like a three dimensional jigsaw puzzle and so beautiful to me in the way they did it it's not make everything square and no in level they just decided to use this sort method of turn
and these stones into these puzzle pieces when you go when you go look at it up close and you realize that you can't get sheet of paper in the gaps between the joints you realize that you are looking at some sort of technology that we don't get there's something they would there was some way that these people were able to do this and make it incredibly difficult for themselves if it was done in any modern way what's the mainstream explanation for that hours and hours of patient labor by tens of thousands of people grinding away at the stones of making them off it consider the planning you know to make that happen let me show the whole wall i've got i've got a picture of the whole war we could pull it up if you just tell us what pictures on your website oh my god that's amazing when i say the whole wall i mean just a section of the whole wall that war runs for hun is a feet in all directions in the planning that's involved in making no single block of stone is the same size as another they're all different sizes they're all tongue and
moved into each other in this in this incredible way and it really feels like they were melted they were kind of that's what jesus his says he says the it was softened by some take so we don't understand he thinks heat was involved they were softened and in a soft state they will fit together and then they solidified is that symbol that they figured out some way to make a blow torch or something but i think it's possible but even then how do you push them into place on a blowtorch necessarily but sources something goes on the defies explanation there i'm what's that i and i don't think we need aliens to explain it i think it's human work i think it's human whitman but it's it at a level and at the standard that we do not fully understand yeah the the alien thing gets real weird you know so you know i have been i've had the privilege of traveling around this planet for the last twenty five years looking at ancient sites look at that and oh my god so amazing is that sexy woman how how big are the largest stones web
twenty feet high one hundred and fifty to two hundred tons in weight six to eight feet thick just just monstrous just two hundred tons is four hundred thousand so is two hundred tons and tons of desserts like in kilos a ton is at attorneys one thousand kilograms so or your kilo yeah i don't do it in france anymore at least you don't do it in stone when we go to england i mean do ufc wins we have to say like ten stone everything they were fourteen in a stone so tense town meteor one hundred and forty pounds yeah yeah it's weird it's really complicated at this sexy woman now the point looking up at the top left of the screen that is some inferior work on top of the better work and what his his camara's saying in the inferior what was the work of the incas but the other stuff is much old so the smaller rock yeah that were easily an appeal it out yeah now they
copying the old stock and respecting it and over building and building around it but they were honoring an earlier and earlier work of construction in the conventional dating of this is very recent the incas the incas were wiped out by the spanish fifteen thirty one thousand five hundred and forty they were destroyed as an empire they'd only existed according to history for one hundred and fifty years before that two hundred years before that at the outside and all of this work this incredible megalithic wait that's all over the andes mountains you couldn't move for bumping into it all of it is supposed to have been built in that two hundred year period by the incas becaus archaeology can't just can't bear the idea that there might have been some earlier culture why'd ate it then it's seems like if it's so confusing and so there's so many open ended questions when you see these enormous pieces when you see them fitted together when you don't have an explanation for how they did it you're not actually sure who did it because the history gets really murky when you get that far back you know why'd ate it i agree
why did i don't i don't understand why they have to do that i would bet what it seems to me that archaeology comes to history with the pre existing reference frame and makes everything fit into it makes every it into and that's been the mistake of science down the ages there was a long period there a very good example of this is is that the notion that the notion that the sun revolved around the earth that was based on a pre existing reference seem to make sense get up in the morning look at the sun it rises goes through the sky but it was clean nonsense is the earth that's going around the sun you have to change the reference frame in to see what's really going on and i think that's the problem with history and archaeology what active any houses go beckley tapi discover the go back klay tapi discovery it changed archaeologists view of of of back dating thing as i mentioned i light clash met when i met him they'll kill just who's working on correctly tapi i thought he was i thought it was charming and enthusiastic and i enjoyed his energy but when i asked
but when i said so what does it feel like to be the man who discovered the site that's rewriting history and he said no it's not rewriting history it's adding a new chapter two existing history and he still wants to fit it into that reference frame somehow that we have to ok we have to completely rethink our ideas about the upper paleolithic but somehow desperately we must look at this site in a way that's not going to rock the boat too much and i was sad to hear that i think i think especially when he himself miss that at least twenty times as much if not fifty times as much is still under the ground are waiting to be excavated i think a little bit of provisional thinking is need if you think it's do you just attribute that to him being a professional academic yes i think that professional professional academia particularly in the realm of archaeology encourages those who are working in the field two i think in terms of the existing paradigm now to think in terms of stuff charging the paradigm because is danger
if you challenge the paradigm you you're going to be ridiculed by your colleague and and regarded as complete lunatic and attacked and insulted so it's better not to charge what a fascinating area of research to not challenge the paradigm in area where you have so little information about what could have possibly happened when you get back to five thousand years ago six thousand years ago seven thousand years ago and you're trying to piece these puzzles again to pretend that you have the entire timeline it seems a little silly is pretty crazy it seems so i mean it's one thing if you're trying to pretend that you have a timeline when you're dealing with something or excuse me to pretend you have all the information when you're dealing with something like mathematics or when you're dealing with something like very clear the manuscripts you know like oh we have you you know the dead sea well it's very clearly x amount of years old something with history where you have recent documents that you can draw upon will you have those written documents
we can be reasonably certain about what's going on the first there we go we don't have the written documents beyond five thousand years we have no written documents and to draw fixed and firm conclusions about what happened before five thousand years ago on the basis of a few things dugout of the ground it's not good enough it's a must is being made and that i believe is going to is going to change is going to be painful is going to be slow it was painful to change the ptolemaic system to the credit system but it will happen the system will change and the the the backdating of the sphinx has there been any progress on that now because of go beckley tempe because the what roberts did in exposing the erosion the water erosion and we briefly touched on this before but i've seen people dispute it and boy
itself it seems so forced and labored there'd they're disputing object exactly the i have i have no doubt the rubber shops right rubber rubber shock and and jonathan the west there right about the sphinx and they have been attacked in all kinds of ways and all kinds of elaborate contorted explanations have been given to explain away that kind of weather in but the fact is they remain to be right and now we have compactly tapi now on the other side of the world we have going on cut on we have sites that are twelve the plus years old indisputably so i think it's it soon or later will cause a reconsideration of the sphinx i hope so and that's something that i also intend to focus on well i think it has to as soon as jamie gets back from the bathroom will show some of the images of the the sphinx enclosure that led roberts shock who is a geologist too
he clearly pro claim that what you're dealing with is thousands of years of water a row houses of years will go the smoothness of it the curves the fact that there's all these features that indicate water running down and then the area i think shock robert shulchan john west a going to be seen in future generations as the company because of that time that they sold what nobody else will and and they had the courage to put to put the information out there and they were attacked for it and no people don't get bent at the stake these days for for proposing alternative ideas but any kind of way you know we do there is the the the the vicious nature of the attacks on people to propose an alternative view of history but i i think in our lifetimes we will see this change it folks haven't seen or haven't heard me talk about john anthony w amazing documentary series on egypt it's called magical egypt and i can't recommend it enough it is abs probably fascinating so
in depth i believe is it six or seven dvd's i don't know how many that big big collection of dvd's it's a massive massive amount of work and justice a man who's devoted his whole life to understanding and an alternative understanding of egypt done with great wisdom and great care yeah it's really really incredible series that i've watched many many times over and over going to try to absorb as much of it as i as i can but it's it's so staggering and he also showed very clear that there's some different styles of techniques of bit of building and that these older techniques that you find or of a different techniques are all on a lower level of the soon will it's exactly is exactly like it is in the peruvian andes and and and bolivia that what what has happened i think is that our
geology has taken the work of the latest culture to work on the site and handed the whole site over to it actually gives are very complicated site you have the subterranean chamber beneath the great pyramid why do we have to be that that is from the same date as the pyramid itself you have the so called mortuary temples and valley temples gigantic megalithic structures the valley temple beside the sphinx is actually made of blocks of limestone that were cut out from around the sphinx to create the body of the swing so if the sphinxes twelve thousand years old and i honestly think it is then the valley temple twelve thousand years old as well the what we have very complex multilayered sites where there's a very ancient megalithic layer of architecture and the later culture comes along perhaps venerates that perhaps over builds around it and attempts to copy it in some ways and the mistake has been
both in the andes and in egypt the the later culture has been attributed with all the work we need a more sophisticated more in depth exploration of this and i think about the type is going to force to do that jamie if you could pull up some of the images of the robert shock created of the water erosion post i mean you showed in a little animated or illustrated image of it before but it's fasting stuff and that seems to me to be the one the one smoking gun in egypt that sort of points is this is a smoking gun for sure it's a smoking gun which the mainstream academia has tried to ignore the smoke but the smoke is there and and go back to ted because in putting other sites are going to force them to wreak after that what are they going to do if they dig up something that's thirty thousand years old i mean well i
that they're not going to hide it and pretend it would well i know of cases what's happened i know it happened in malta what would happen i'm also in the hypogeum which is an underground structure in malta of amazing on the grounds one over the one played with the should be on everybody's bucket list by the way the hypogeum in malta it is incredible place it's like it's like a huge temple complex cut out underground and there are traces of red ochre paint on the walls they look much or like the caves the painted caves then they look like stuff from the neolithic and there was one time a fig of a hybrid creature of half bison half bull such a figure would be normal in the painted caves from thirty thousand years ago but doesn't fit in with the idea that the hypogean belongs to five thousand years ago an this was solved by a certain gentleman who shall remain nameless who had the bison bulls
rubbed off the walls of the hyper gym in malta i was literally scrubbed off i repeat with this at some length in my book underworld wow who they think scrubbed it well we know who scrubbed there was a former director of museums in malta yeah back in black in the 60s he scrubbed it off the walls when i took that i took the national museums of malta to task over this when i was back there making a documentary with channel four we put in a formal document to them asking them to answer this charge and they refused to answer it they would not comment appan it at all wow so yeah i mean archaeologist do actually sometimes do incredibly dishonest things to maintain the view of history that's so sad i mean if you just think about the whole cycle of thinking that goes from being a young person wanted to explore history wanted to become an archaeologist getting involved in archaeology getting involved in academia and then
destroying evidence that's contrary to what you've been taught or or are teaching is the opposite of something so scary so scary that human nature even in a scientific work sometimes finds way to rear its ugly head that that that the nasty aspects i'm not sure if you can even find their way into archaeology most unfortunate you know that they can't in certain sciences because it's so cut and dry mathematics and physics and you know but in new york in archaeology so much is based on interpretation and interpretation of very limited facts actually so what's next for you what do you do from here well i am writing at the moment i'm researching and writing a sequel to fingerprints of the gods fingerprints of the gods was published in nineteen ninety the reason i'm doing a sequel is because of the new evidence we've talked about going padding in indonesia we've talked about we've talked about we've talked about the comet the comment for me is the cataclysmic smoking gun that explain
how we lost a whole civilization and a whole lot of material like this i'm not going to write an update of fingerprints of the gods i'm going to write a completely new book and that book i'm in the process researching that's why i'm on these travels at the moment that's why i'm going to indonesia at the beginning of december that book will be published at and in the fall of twenty fifteen i'm due to deliver it to the publishers in december two thousand and fourteen it'll be published in the fall of twenty fifteen and this i i see this as some it way kind of summation of my life's work on this whole issue of a lost civilization and i feel very committed to doing it but honestly my heart these days is in writing novels really i love writing novels yeah so it took a long time for you to break away from you originally a journalist then went from journalism to writing about the ancient history and alternate view of ancient history
but it was it was a psychedelic experience that led you to want to write it was a psychedelic experience with iowa osca back in two thousand and seven that set me on the track to write my first novel which is entangled which is which is a story of two young women one living twenty four thousand years ago in the stone age one living in modern los angeles whose destinies are entangled the time is not what it seems that it's kind of spiral or a cat's cradle of inter crossing lines rather than an arrow and they are brought together by a benign supernatural force who i call the blue ain't to do battle with the demon who travels through time and then since then i've written war called which is which is a novel about the spanish conquest of mexico did get a british publisher for that book that books being published in and
britain and it did ok did well enough at any rate for the publishers in britain to commission volumes two and three because it's because it's a series i couldn't get any american publisher to take that book on but because publishing sees people in terms of brands and i am branded as a non fiction author and how dare i write fiction or dare you how dare i do that uh you know life is short i wanted i want to try many many things and so what i've done is published it pretty much effectively self published in america through amazon and the book is available on amazon dot com that's what it looks like the us edition people can also holds beautiful he loved people can also order it from book shops but it's easier to get it from amazon dot com
is that the on the cover well that's actually do derive from an aztec image of a of a of a skull found on over a bowl coat because they played this this terrible game of ball game with the the loser had his head cut off and and what god is the story of the spanish conquest of mexico and if i could say to anybody who's listening special offer next ten days only go to my website which is graham hancock dot com and click on the war god section and you will find links to get it on amazon dot com either as an ebook or as a printed book what i will do is write to me at the address that's on my website there which is which is war gaunt dedications at g mail dot com right to me i will write back to you and i will send you a some
dedicated bookplate that's essentially a label you buy the book from amazon in the normal way but you will receive through the post for me if you write to me and give me your postal address you will receive through the post from me assigned dedicated bookplate to place inside wow that's awesome that's ten days that that that offer is available that's a beautiful image that's will guard dedication is there dedications at g mail dot com that's a beautiful image that image of the the aztecs call i had read something somewhere where scholars were they were contemplating whether or not they incorrect about the the sacrifice and they were saying that there there may be a possibility they played a game with a sacrifice the winning team a second human sacrifice was conducted on an industrial scale stick and i i've invested we did this very very thoroughly this novel is a novel it's a work of it's a work of fiction but i've thoroughly ground but in the historical facts and this was a tough history to investigate
the aztecs were truly a terrifying culture the spanish who turned up with four hundred and ninety men in eleven ships on the gulf of mexico in one thousand five hundred and nineteen worth anything and even more terrifying culture there these two marshall cultures who are brought together in this in this horrendous conflict but you've you know it's it was a different time it was a different world then in one thousand five hundred and nineteen and and i've tried to tell the story through the eyes of order human beings my main heroine is a true historical figure a woman called molly now to i'm the mistress and the interpreter of cortez and when she it is history she's given to cortez as a surrender gift by the maya when she
and his history it's already clear that she has a grudge against moctezuma the aztec emperor and that she is going to use cortez as her instrument to bring him down and i was just interested in her quest for revenge against the aztec emperor and also to have a a woman who's a hero in a story run and just a man what is the traffic to the first one what is the the origin of this horrific level of human sacrifice like what what's
i did it all with the aztecs and wide well that's at the again that's the reason why i've written war god as a novel because for the aztecs they believe that they were in touch with the supernatural entity that they called with single partially humming bird i i use his name in the english translation in the book coming bit who is their god of war he's there he's their war god and and this is an area where we we have to recognize that there is a dark side to psychedelics i am a big fan of psychedelics and i do think the psychedelics have a hugely important role to play but the aztecs were using side to side and mushrooms in the human sacrifice rituals and moctezuma was encountering this demonic entity hummingbird inside in side entrances and and was constantly being given incredibly bad even wicked advice by him and this this so i'm i'm playing with the idea of dark spiritual forces at work behind human history manipulating moctezuma if you letting cortez and
plunging mankind into the sea of of cruelty and misery and you know what the story from man doesn't at all times is that the human spirit still shines through even in the darkest times there is coverage there is decency there is love people people struggle to show the best in themselves and and and and to deliver the best in themselves i've tried to show both sides this this book is about the battle of good against evil and it's not that the spanish are good in the aztecs are evil because the spanish were wicked wicked wicked as well and the terrible things they fed people to dogs they they they bet people at the state what is actually banning somebody at the stake if not a form of human sacrifice that's what the spanish would do to that caught they were sacrificing people to the gods are no different from the us x respect the level of sacrifice was so insane i i tried to explain it to a friend of mine and he he literally told me i
is bull shiting when i told him that eighty thousand people were sacrificed two thousand were sacrifice over period of like like four days or days with teams of killers fifty teams of killers working at the top of the great pyramid to process people within a minute or two process them think of it that's how it's done it wasn't done on an industrial scale cues of victims stretching a mile in every direction marching up the pyramid and having and having their hearts cut out and all of this in honor of of a demonic a demonic entity which the aztecs passionately believed in they believe that he needed to be fed human hearts and blood when a call they called him which partially which means hummingbird at the left hand of the son he's the war god
who is this after whom this novel is is is is named and he i the way the way i look at it he is the the same demonic entity is manipulating both moctezuma and cortez he appears to cortez in dreams and takes on the disguise of saint peter he appears moctezuma as the as the walk of it is the same demon that's with men and that's one reason why i wrote this is a novel because you can't get into this stuff in a non fiction book but is very real it's a very real part of human history and the whole shape of the world we live in today the the time bill genocide that happened in north america the destruction of the north american indians the the conquest of peru the whole relationship of the european powers to to africa for example all of this was based on what happened in those years between one thousand five hundred and nineteen and one thousand five hundred and twenty one when the spanish conquest of mexico unfolded
and i think we would let on to a dog track imagine how it could have been if those two cultures if the spanish and the aztecs had met one another in a spirit of mutual how much that was to exchange how much each side of the atlantic could have learned from the other instead it's three becomes this kind of of of of blood but it's difficult to place ourselves in the mindset of the people of that time it's difficult for us to do that today and i have to say when you look at the spaniards i mean one hundred and ninety men turn off of the coast of mexico in the eleven ships and they are going to take on this empire that can put two hundred thousand men into the field that will if they catch you will match you pyramid and cut your heart out and many spaniards were sacrificed insight of their of their colleagues it was an extraordinary time it was an extraordinary event and those times were different from men of today i believe
what is the mainstream explanation for human sacrifice like what do they believe started off well that is that it's a feeding of psychic enerji to supernatural being that's what she what's human is about that that that you take the psychic energy of the individual you're going to kill you kill them take psychic energy and feed it to these vampire like creatures that are lying in the beyond that that thrive human misery and pain you know who are we to say that such things do not exist we don't understand the nature of reality and if you good human culture day i mean look at wars look at wars that are happening in the world today look at the tens of thousands of people that are being slaughtered in warfare today that's also a kind of human sacrifice i think we have to consider the possibility that some kind of dim unlike forces thriving on this and and
being nourished by it and that's one of the things that we need to do as human beings is to separate ourselves from that and say no we will not do that we will not feed that energy we will not offer lives easier the beyond i don't go with you on that but i do in a way i don't believe demons but i do i think it's undeniable that there have been massive groups of people that have participated in horrific things so what is that is not demonic i believe i believe it's demonic i can't prove it i can't prove that's the case i just think we should stay open to that possibility that the picture of reality is so complex and so multilayered that there may be much going on than we think and that if we just if we just confine our explanations of things to purely economic and material terms we may be missing part of the picture and that when the ancients spoke of angels
demons to use words i'm not saying that i believe in angels or demons as such but when they spoke of lawton light and dark forces negative and positive forces playing on on the human race maybe they have something going maybe there was something to that why always consider the fact that human beings have this incredibly broad spectrum of possibility expert in credibly bark broad spectrum of behavior and personality of circumstance of genetics and that there's this yen and yang of life there's this pull and push of life and that the extreme ends of it are good and evil good and evil you and it may not be a demon but it might as well be a demon if you're marching eighty thousand people at the side of a pyramid and cutting their heart out with a fucking stone tool yeah that's it might as well be might as well be a demon yeah and and and that is that is worth considering in the out of the question is what is you know what is going on here i'm a very dear friend call james tiburon who refers to this world the we live in as a university of duality
that we have that lessons to learn from you out to maybe you ought to tease not the whole thing maybe there is an over arching unity and one us in in all things but right now here in this incarnation on planet earth we have to learn from geology and the thing about you honesty is human beings can choose we can always choose even in the most straightened and difficult circumstances we can always choose for the light rather than the darkness we can always choose for good rather than evil we don't have to take that act that cause pain and suffering to another human being we never have to do that we can we choose not to the alarm the thing is that people often will choose the act that causes pain and suffering to others and we are defined by our choices and this is where we need to grow up as a species of start to choose start to choose the light do you think get this broad spectrum of possibilities whether it's possibilities of thinking or behavior
it's almost there to educate us as to the possibilities of this destructive possibilities that this huge spectrum that we have is is so open ended in so massive as to indicate that there are these extreme variables in these extreme variables can push us my understanding of the consequences into a more positive way but if they didn't exist if these horrific ideas of war and of human sacrifice didn't exist maybe we'll even appreciate love as much we would not appreciate love as much as we would have nothing to learn from this this strange and troublesome and mysterious and beautiful thing called being a human being we have to learn here we learn here becaus there are those those two different poles at the extreme end of which are good and evil with all kind gradations in between that is what teaches us and it's the choices we make day by day as we go through life that define us ultimate now whether there is any trend
little consequence to that something beyond this life something that some reckoning to take place as the ancient egyptian certainly believe there was i don't know for sure but i do know that a lifetime of making decisions what cause pain and suffering to others on that inflict on an that detract from their sovereignty it is is is is a life that ultimately the person whose live that life is diminished by it i want to know how they got eighty thousand people to get in a line to get their hearts cut out tara terror they were the dominant military force in the valley of mexico that they were very they they ask takes had a huge secret police force they spied on one another they spied on the neighbors they would carry out human sacrifices as object lessons to their neighbors you will pass tribute or this is what we will do to you they skinned people alive they would they would truly truly awful and
and it was their awfulness it was the horrific nature of aztec behavior that led them to lose that battle against cortez because because what to their numbers are crazy cortez four hundred and ninety man aspects two hundred thousand is pretty you think it's pretty obvious who's going to win how does cortez when he wins because the aztecs neighbors hate the aztecs they have lived in terror of them for two hundred years and they see him as a liberator they see him as somebody who's going to lift this yoke off their shoulders and allow them to be free of they didn't know that he was it's going to make things worse but at in the time in the nature of things at the time that was how it was felt i mean just the fact that there were thirty million people in mexico in one thousand and nineteen and fifty years later they were just one million the spanish were responsible for a genocide of twenty nine million so make things better but it looked like they'd make things better and they came
the kind of calm and here's the weird thing again i'll show this cover because beside it is the feathered serpent in this subtle in this photograph and that's quite the feathered and who is who is that and this is another reason why court has one because he was able to play on the prophecy that a god of peace would return and that the that god would overthrow wicked king and he was the feathered serpent he was quite circle and it was predicted that he would return in the aztec year one reed and it's uh happened the cortez landed on the coast of mexico with his tiny army in the year one reed one thousand five hundred and nineteen was the year one reed so the return of quetzalcoatlus was a key part of cortez is victory and my heroine mall in all is the person who tells cortez about this she she's the one who shows
how to exploit this and how to play moctezuma's superstition and fear to represent himself as this car but of course cortez is not a god of peace he's a he's a god of war it's a quite a quite a coincidence it was amazing amazing coincidence is that what it is or is it a prophecy again you have to wonder you have to wonder how this how this could have happened because the prophecy was quite specific that quit sarco athol and his companions would return in the year one reed they would turn in ships that move by themselves without paddles what were the spanish ships with their sales but ships that move by themselves without paddles they would be justin shining metal arm
and they would deploy weapons because she who classical which means fire serpents which would dismember man at a distance i ii comments all of this kind of all of this was right there in the prophecy and and cortez was able to step right into that into that role and to turn around what should have been obvious defeat for his tiny force into into a stunning stunning victory that is absolutely fascinating so many correlating ideas yeah yeah so many relating ideas come together and that's why i felt i want to write a book about this and that's i thought i want to get inside the heads of the characters and deal with that battle of good against evil at a level that one can't do in a nonfiction book how old was this prophecy well that image that i showed above the feathered serpent again i show it that image of the feathered serpent which side of my screen my own here that image of the feathered sir is some from la venta in the gulf of mexico
and that is in the oldest archaeological strata of mexico that image dates to an archaeological strata that is about one thousand five hundred bc three two thousand five hundred years ago the stone maybe much older than that but the stratus dug up from was already three thousand five hundred years old so this notion and there are many images of people with kind of caucasian features found in the same stratum this no another mysterious strangers who were in mexico at some time and who would and is very ancient in the mexican system and and how did they i mean there there's a there's a very different language that they used than than ours and it was very difficult for them to decide for a lot of the specially the mayans were that they were in the aspect the way there what what exactly they were saying how did they figure out they're saying ships without oars and
if i click on the whole deal it's an interesting point that you raise so when cortez first lands in mexico he lands in the yucatan and the people who live in the yucatan are they maya there not the aztecs there the first people he encounters and there it has an incredible stroke of luck he can't speak a word of mayan and or can anybody else in his group of spaniards but they discover that somebody who looks like them is living on the mainland as a prisoner of the maya the spanish first landed in cosm el holiday resort today and the the mayan tribe on cozumel where relatively peaceful but the people on the mainland were not an the maya because mel came to cortez and they said there's that with sign language they they pointed at him and they said castillian they actually hold him he was a castilian and caught his thought how can they know i'm a castillion that's what the spanish called them selves and gradually through sign language he figured out what it was that there was spaniard who'd been shipwrecked on the coast of mexico at some point
it turned it was eleven years before in fact twenty six spaniards had been shipwrecked eleven years before twenty five of them had been eaten by the maya but one aguilar had survived so cortez grabbed him and i tell this story in my book and cortez became aguilar became cortez's first interpreter so suddenly because he spoke fluent myer by then he'd been living amongst the maya for eleven years and he spoke spanish as well so sudden they could understand the myer they could communicate with the maya but then when they went on and they and the aztecs for the first time the aztecs spoke another language in that language was not the language of the takes on aguilar suddenly became useless he couldn't speak nahuatl apple and that's where my heroine who's a true historical figure molly all thrust herself for which he's already been handed over to cortez as a prisoner she speaks fluent nahuatl and fluent maya and she case to cortez look i can work with your man aquilla our i will give
do you you will put the words from spanish if you'll speak spanish i will give me those words in maya and i would translate them into not what reverse with the aztec and and within weeks she has replaced aguillar she's a genius she basta spanish she becomes cortez soul interpreter and she is communicating for him with this text and there's an amazing scene where she encounters moctezuma directly sheehan cortez face to face moctezuma and in those days if you look moctezuma in the eye you were killed this is what the aztecs nobody could look him in there had to fall on their faces and the local accounts from the time tell us how malan all standing there the cosway outside tenochtitlan looked straight in the eye she never lowered her eyes for a second as she gave him the words of cortez and i'm just fascinated by the courage of this woman and what drove her to
use cortez as her instrument to bring marked as it went down which is a real history she's a real historical figure this the statue of her in mexico city today she became not only cortez is interpreter but also his a mistress and and the mother core and the mother of his child and i've got all accounts she was a very beautiful woman i would be disappointed in bangor she she she said you can't find a single so bad angle aztec painting cortez that doesn't have much malanotte in it while she was in the heart of every battle and there's another spanish writer of the time uh who spoke about as a bad bad idea as a common soldier who wrote a memoir called the history of the conquest of new spain and is he who who tells us of manaus beauty her grace her courage her her she she's regarded as a traitor in mexico wow she cortez's
edit he said aside from god himself it was molly knoll who gave me this conquest of mexico and and that's it one woman changed the history of the world la malinche that's how the spanish knew her they knew her as llama lynche wow that's amazing so she's the central character in my novel and we'd meet her in the fattening pen at the foot of the great pyramid along with another woman who plays a big part in my story a young witch called to z this is the motive this is why mark malan not escapes but this is why she wants to bring up madame because she sees him as the head of an empire of terror and she cortez is the only way to bring moctezuma to his well it's fascinated there would regard her as a traitor when you think about what monta zuma had done to his own people that's
that's amazing well again to give balance we have to say that the spanish did in harmony things as horrible horrible things feeding people to dog yeah using people as target practice for their weapons let's see if this spanish toledo steel will cut off this man's arm you know things things like that they they they they would they were horrors true true true ours and and cortez was a man of war in every possible way and i'm a machiavellian plan very cunning very clever you can't help admiring him in certain ways but but he was unbelievably cruel what brought down cortez this was brought down by old age he wanted to become the king of mexico after eventually elliptic final battle when the spanish took ten watched it land which is the old name for mexico mexico city cortez really it's clear that his plan was to become the new king of mexico but the king of spain had different ideas and they pulled cortez down they gave him a they gave him a title he became
a marquis but said he was never allowed to fulfill his dreams and i see comma at work in that as well if he'd been a better man perhaps he would have been allowed to fulfill some tree whatever the guy live to be old it's amazing for those times those times you live to be sixty u world how old he lives he lived to be about that's amazing yeah they have no antibiotics no aspirin no and bandaids massive war wounds he he was he was clubbed on the head his skull was broken they have examined discuss of cortez and there's three separate times in his skull was fractured wow battles and in each time he recovered and bounced back they were men of steel the spaniards they were they were the ult warriors win a tiny though they were small but they were me how big were they in nine five three five feet tall the small guys was that because of a lack of food i guess the trish i guess i guess so it's a it's a nutritional issue they're all you know the people out i told the today and most times
a small that is absolutely fascinating isn't it how much does just the shape of human beings has changed to take japan the shape of human beings has changed radically yeah and in the last in the last fifty years this some enormous japanese original yeah big giant wrestlers yeah spend not quite a few that have entered into mixed martial arts which is enormous enormous man that is to do is to do with nutrition definitely definitely fascinating so can i say that again if anybody is interested in action supporting my work and spending a few dollars on getting hold of a copy of will go to website by it through the amazon link check out the address that's there which is war god dedications at g mail dot com right to me and i will at my own expense by air mail send you a sign dedicated book plate to go inside your copy of walk on but the offer is only good
for about the next ten days i guarantee just sold a gang of books 'cause that was really fascinating i'm going to buy it tonight i'm really blown away by that whole idea the whole story the woman who was the translator is a whole thing it's so fascinating that the when you live in this sweet cushy society that we live in today specially here in los angeles so it didn't even rain and everything go to a supermarket and get some meat is everything so softon easy it's so hard for us to rap our heads around that just five hundred plus years ago this was going down in mexico amazing graham hancock every time you come on it's better than the time before you blew me away again man you you you you you broke whatever you whatever record you said the last one i see you jet or today man i i hope a million people go out and buy your book after that that's absolutely fascinating so again it's war god you can get on amazon and the book that really got me into graham hancock in the first place which is fingerprints of the gods also
available everywhere on amazon that angle links for war cutter on my website grahamhancock dot com very clearly my beautiful thank you very much man that was that was amazing like it's a really really fascinating stuff and our sponsors thanks to our sponsors thanks to audible dot com go to audible dot com forward slash joe and get yourself a free audio book thanks also to try to find the link there it is thanks all carbonite go to carbonite dot com use the offer code jre and get a free trial no credit card required plus two free months two free bonus months with your subscription that's carbonite dot com offer code j r e and of course always on it dot com it's and and hi t user code name broke in and save yourself ten percent off any and all supplements will see you guys next week lots of great stuff ahead and the
that's it for now bye bye big kiss yesterday
Transcript generated on 2019-11-06.