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about all kinds of groovy shit. Let's que the music going to jail, broken experience join my day, Joe Rogan Podcast, my name all day, Steve helps in my friend. Politics are dirty business, very dirty, but just before we get into that show you. I just want to say you've already really offended me fantastic. I just want to show you my phone. What have you got here? It is flip phone, so I am. I am in your was an old, crazy Gramma. Well, I have many friends that carry old flip phones, you, but I'm glad that you're actually just carrying a phone exactly. This is a very new development for me. Well, it's a good move, so it never has been telling. I got on the phone. I had not had a phone for many years. Finally uh, I buckled under the pressure- and I got one of these yeah Steve Wiebe-

friends, and why Hawaii are our family? We're all friends? It's a it's! A very cool little develop I really enjoy it, but I think it. I think it's quite hilarious, that your wife is involved in Google and you voip phones at all costs. You avoid technology. You feel that it's too entrenched in our life, this sort of digital web that we've all been connected to yeah, I'm trying to fight it. Joys! Tough! You know it's an uphill shut them off, though that's the beautiful thing when you don't want to use them, you shut them off yeah, but that that kind of nagging away, noring discipline, It's probably right. Well, I feel that there's benefits and there's certainly negatives to phones, but I think the positive aspects outweigh the negative. I like being able to communicate with friends and family and love ones and send texts, and I find it incredibly addictive though, and I think it because

I was at a dinner the other day with a bunch of friends, and everyone was on the ground down phone. There was five of us, and then I was like sitting around the table, looking only texting and tweeting and taking photos and like we're not even here right now, but you guys are connected to this digital world. You talk about how awesome it is to be here, but you don't even hear you barely bring attention and then there's nude sort of etiquette developing about. You know how to handle this. When there's, I think I was reading something about where you were eight people around a table having dinner, and it's ok for three of them to be looking, devices- that's ok, but if it gets to more than three someone's gotta look up, because that's the rule who says says who stab lish right, I don't get it it's just it's like anything else. I mean if you were at a bar with some friends and one guy is just watching tv only and not engaging in a conversation. That's just his rude yeah. I think that's right. I feel and it's fascinating, how my children react devices, that's where I really get a sense of it, because they don't have a cultural context. You know when the four year old watch

television or watches devices and I'll stand in front of a watch just watching tv and she just reaches up and tries to move me. She doesn't give a what I'm thinking like she's, just trying to watch this program. Yeah, you literally Khan, get in between yeah. It's live, really noticed that if you just you know that watching something that's it you know you may be you may have been away for a week and you haven't seen them and that desperate to see. But if there's something on tv at that point not interested yeah, it Trump's everything, it Trump's all human interaction, and it's very weird how it does it. Does it in this strange hypnotic way. There's nothing else on earth that gets afford. Well to just sit there, motionless right and engage, but a lit He stimulates parts of the run, this sort of quite interesting brain science, about what's going on when yeah, when kids watch TV and it's generally fine, but when it gets to a point where they're watching you know more in two or three hours a day in a lot of,

and these days are in that situation, it literally starts rewiring their brain yeah. It's not healthy to comply lately, entrench yourself in that world and to be in that world all day every day, but a lot of people do because it's possible, but I think that just like everything else. It's like I like the option to be able to buy a cheeseburger- I don't think you should eat burgers every day all day, but I like yeah. If I want one from driving by in and out on, like, let's do it, you know it's, it's not the food for you, but I like the option. I totally agree with that. I like that for television. I, like I like watching, swamp people and watch that fucking terrible show but a bunch of people Alligator Hutton and it's the most predictable show of all time because there. They look for alligators and occasionally they get alligators but there's nothing unusual happens. They don't run into a giraffe like who the fuck is a draft in the swamp now just alligators and these with these strange southern accents in boats and they

fishing line, they catch the alligator with fishing line that sometimes they shoot the alligators. But it's just alligator hunters, but they called swamp people yeah even seen that I'm not sure that's going to be top of my list, you should invest. You should invest your about. You know doing doing a little bit of everything. I remember when german. That We came out about Mcdonald's super size me yes, and this guy got learn, fan whatever is Morgan. Yes, you know he made it made a good point, but my favorite response to that was from Mcdonald's when the The guy who runs Mcdonald's in Australia, went on. He took commercials and they went on air when there's this big pr storm about the tearable, Mcdonald's, food and all this kind of stuff, and he he went on air with these commercials, I'm going to now attempt very badly in australian accent. Ok, the most people have

we can tell the difference in the british and australian anyway. So whatever you know to the same, I know I get it. I get it and he goes. He said. Apparently there some bloke is going around saying if you eat too much of our food and don't take any exercise you get fat. Well, I got told you that I just don't really sweet response, which is yet to all something: that's not good, but a little bit. Ok, that's a quite australian response to as oppose so the measured american legalese that you'd probably hear from students go yeah You know. I have a real issue with that documentary and he did a show also called thirty days, because I know what they're doing they're they're, not necessarily just investigating there also trying to achieve a desired result and that a desired result being something bad there. Trying to do something. That's going to be titillating and, oh, my goodness, his liver is going bad. Like he's sick he's, sick he's toxic there's a lot of

who called bullshit on that, especially the live, for toxins and all that stuff to like, where is where's, the liver, toxin, you're dealing with carbohydrates and proteins, and you know and and fats. But it's not like this. These things aren't toxic they're, just not good. There is high in cholesterol in the kind of fatty and sugary, but I know for a fact that they did some fuckery on his show. He had a show called. Thirty days, where he's trying to achieve the same results 'cause they A friend of mine who is a doctor, and he this doctor specializes in hormone replacement therapy for older people, for older people people that are, you know, like you start getting older, you want to replace your testosterone things along those lines. They wanted to do it in thirty days and they wanted to do it on this program. Take a man who's getting older in thirty days injected with hormones and the doctor. Who is an f The doctor said you don't ever do that I would never do that and he said what we would do is we would get you on a proper diet. I would take your blood. It would take away

to get your blood results back, I get your blood results back. I want to get a detailed analysis of what you're eating, what you're doing, what kind of lifestyle do you have it's, not a simple fix like we give you hormones, so what they did is they? around a quack doctor who did just shoot the guy with hormones and the guy would like all roid rage Ian angry afterwards and his fucking was wife wanted to keep him chubby. I mean the whole thing was a disaster, so this is not ethical examination of this really it's like it's entertain and it's not a documentary or something it's deceiving, though. The problem entertainment. Is it's not a puppet show? Ok, it's not a cartoon you're pretending that you're exploring these ideas and when I was doing that Sci Fi Show. I found some similar issues with certain

producers and certain people who were used to that world of reality tv reality. Tv has become this very strange mishmash of choreographed choreograph scenarios and we determined scenarios predetermined results and they do it so live in this guy is a reality tv, but it's it's. Essentially, it's like loosely scripted, bullshit, yeah and they're, pretending that it's like this is what's going on in the doctors office. Now you set that up. That's not what goes on in a doctor's office is not what would go on in a doctors office you pretending,

Is that going to get people to freak out an agenda? You know they're trying to make a point and they set up like that edit. It like that, and you know it's totally right. Well, the whole business is completely fucked because the businesses started off with a bunch of people that came over from scripted shows, so the legacy people that were involved in these dramatic shows where there were no until survivor came along. There were no reality shows quote unquote. Reality shows so I have a deep understanding of this, because I hosted fear factor for six years and because in fact it came in in two thousand and two which was when all the reality shows were being born, so uh got to see where these people have their background from and almost all of them had their back from traumas or from sitcoms or from the world of fictional shows

so much so that you were considered to be like a traitor. If you were involved in reality, show like for people, people got mad at me, they're saying that I was taking jobs away from writers, because I was involved in in reality shows I was like. Oh, this is a whole areas argument, but these people all came from this world with your manipulate things in order to make drama, so they started doing that to quote unquote. Reality shows so that's what you're getting so this thirty days show that doesn't exist anymore in super size. Me show their. You know tackling very complex issues and doing it in it to entertaining form and why we do that this some integrity, that sort of goes by the wayside, but I think that's right and integrity.

Yeah. I had a real example of that in the end, you're relying on the people involved to have a bit of integrity and ethics in the way they do their jobs- and I just saw a little example. This weekend was out doing stuff, and I did for to do with the election in my company, and we did. I did an interview for the local news for the NBC News, doing some demos of stuff with people in Santa Monica and they wanted to film one of the people that we're doing it with interacting with our thing right well with our website and at that point, there weren't any people interested in doing that. So one of the team said what don't we, pretend to be a member of the public, doing it and is really interesting because they said no the producer and the John. They said. No, no, it's gotta to be. You know real for the public, and I thought that was really cool. You know they obviously where to go. There were busy they had to get back to the studio. They were really annoyed that there having to wait a long time for actual member the public, but they really

did say no we're we going to take fake and it would have been so easy and no one would have noticed and in that moment it was literally just their personal integrity and it was cool to see and not on the. I hope that's really whites for in the news business, but it was just for me. A really interesting example of you can rules and you can have stuff, but in the end it's about people and their choices in the moment. It is interesting that they chose to do that with integrity, but it's also interesting that someone suggests that they'd not right exactly exactly that's the other side of it, but it was. I was really pleased that that's what they decided. I did a show for CBS once Game. Show in my head and the the premise of the show was you would have this little earpiece in that someone could talk to you in so I would ear piece in the contestants and send them out and when they be standing somewhere, I'd say: ok, can you hear me and they say yes, alright,

Here's what's going on and then these two guys came in with cameras that were holding cameras. You are a reporter on the news. Here's your scenario someone called in a UFO sighting. They saw a UFO sighting brought in the cameras. Unfortunately, that person went away. So what you have to do is convince some member of the public. That's around there to take that person's place and to say that they were the ones who saw this UFO and you I have to get them to say that they were taken board. This UFO and the examined by aliens and so you know was it was kind of funny there like okay. Here we go alright. How do I do this? What was shocking was how many people, when you put that camera on them immediately said they would do it and immediately started just lying, just lying was a silver craft. I mean all walks of life are very. People said no, that was the most parking clear when you

the camera on them. They just started talking and started sort of repeat bing these iconic images that you always hear the disks shaped things silver with. There was no bolts on it. They were going in detail and talking about the the medical examinations and this this guy so uh, I think, was a guy in a girl. You know these, test and who had to do this. We're just talking to these people and we so all the producers in the truck were all looking at each other. Like wow, people are fucking full of shit. This is so weird, it's so weird how easy it is for some people to just Jen justify making up a story just in order for them to be on camera yeah. But what did you think it's because they just The camera they want to be on the camera is that they want to please the other person they want to be on tv look clever, it could be that as well I think, most likely it's. They want to be on television, so they could go home. Set dvr. You know it's an automaton get to me

fucking lie, and you know they just wanted to be on television. I think for a lot of people in this day and age. That is just, Some sort of a weird ultimate goal or just to have that camera on them, and then they go home and see it right. That makes sense or not, and for a lot folks. It doesn't make sense alot of folks. You know they the one to one of ruining their lives. You know they find out how people feel about them, plus you spose yourself to the critique of millions of anonymous people fill with hate filled with hate. Disappointment their own life and just rated us spew venom in your direction. That's camp down to shit, although used evil. Well, this due this week another thing. This weekend we went out and made a little film just to test that out, but the elections going, in LA and we literally went up to people and made up

candidates that are running for Congress and now what they thought about that you know and what do you think of Angelina Jolie running for Congress and they tote this guys yeah? I was so excited when I heard that that's great, you know I think, she's great, and it's just that. You can't believe how people just engage with these things just made it up and I'd like you were saying, with the UFO thing he was like going on about it wasn't just saying: Yeah I heard about that. That's great. He was sort of embellishing it and cooking about it. It's just ridiculous, yeah people fucking, strange man, that's strange and that's a real problem. When it comes to politics or anything when you're allowing people to make choices that can affect others. People are weird, you know, and a good centage of 'em are really dumb and uninformed and not interested mean when you say dumb and uninformed here's what I think when I say that, but when I'm saying dumb, what I mean is if

the human mind is Essentia Lee say: if everyone has the exact same physical structure, the act, same genetics, exact same hormonal system, an one person does yoga everyday and eats healthy and does Chin up's in the morning when they wake up and drinks a lot of water and the the person sits in front of the tv likes to smoke, cigarettes eat, snuff, but sugar. You get to see the results of one person being very aware of their body and taking care of their body in the other person. Not well you get that same effect with the life. You get the same effect with how you approach the world itself. Some people approach the world through this lazy, disconnected. You know like pop culture obsessed, nonsensical pop culture, obsessed, Jamie talking you, you fuck, he's a little pop culture side not to be

Jimmy's, aware of a lot of other shit too, but some people, just they don't enrich their life. They don't enrich their mind. They don't they're, not they're, not curious, and those people with all these poor decisions and drug addictions and the life's a mess they have an equal say to the person who is rational and aware and kind and objective equal say an. I think. That's one of the weirdest things about trying to figure out how to mitigate the effects of the lazy. How do you? How do you deal with the effects of the morons like when, when you have a riot and people start pulling people out of cars and throw rocks at their heads? Which they've had LOS Angeles in the past, especially after the? the king beating and things along well, just random white people just attack them. How do you

How do you? How do you allow, when you see these the these things can happen now. Use that and it's an example could be million other things that are really stupid. That people do, how could it be the One person gets one vote and another person who is very aware. Another person is very educated, another person, who's, very kind and very sympathetic to all walks of life equal vote. One person a total racist you could do? You could go to a voting booth. With a t, shirt on it, says fuck black people and you could vote and no one could say- You know as long as especially have a shirt sort. Flannel shirt, that's over the t, shirt that says fuck black people, so we have to really look hard to see fuck black people and you think you're getting over. No one can stop you and it's

one of the things that they were trying to work around when they developed the concept of a representative democracy, the concept of America, representative government. So I like okay, let's sort of have some filters in place voting, but you kind of voting on a representative and the representative sort of votes for you and they interpret what you I think. That's that's definitely part the idea. I think that when you I mean that that point you just made about the reminds me. Actually the racist point you mention made. There was a really effective commercial for rock the vote. I remember years ago in the in the UK, where I was back there the time and they I literally had some image of wasn't images like a tv ad of the race? sky like spewing, racist stuff and then the you'd better ' 'cause. You can be sure that he will. There was a really good way of making that point, but I think that, generally you know, those kind of people are the extreme

I think the idea is that most people are not. You know the the kind of extreme end of it, whether either totaly Where their views are just completely abhorrent, or they are just completely off the page in terms of their knowledge, you got a majority of people. Basically in You stayed in good things happening. I think the problem is we just don't know how enough of but the information they get is not just saying it's not presented in a good way, there's other interesting things going on that busy with their life. You know they want to get involved, and so what happens- and I think this is happening more and more. Is you end up with a smaller and smaller group of people who base control the political system, because the massive people are just not interested that turned off, they think getting involved, won't make any difference, and so what you end up with these people with a lot of money, special interests, those who that kind of professionals of the political game running everything and that actually makes people leave

less inclined to get involved. 'cause they see what's happening thing all well. Why should I bother it's a really bad cycle? Yeah and then people start saying things like all the new world orders and control anyway. The Bilderberg group is in control anyway, and there was some thing yesterday that was in the news where the members of the Bilderberg group in I think he's some dutch guy had some imp, prompto public discussion with all these people and they start bringing out all these details of nine hundred and eleven You know, nine hundred and eleven those the building was brought down thermite and they stick in a circle the sky and start talking to him, and his is fascinating. You know this. This idea of of the Illuminati need this idea of a small group of people controlling everyone through the icon, like symbolism, eyeballs inside of pyramids, and all that becomes.

In a lot of ways, a vehicle for for feeling unempowered. That feeling that's exactly franchised. That's what think. That's that's how people feel and really notice. I used to work back in the UK in the government and I notice that there have been in politics along time. That's how people feel there is even more so here. I think you know if you click today, with speaking on election day in California, the primaries everyone it's going to be, the lowest turnout out ever number just did, because they don't think it is any difference, I think that's the real problem and they feel the whole idea of democracies is people. Power is that you have the power everyone that, like you're saying everyone has the same chance to influence things and they have the power, but that is what it feels like to people yeah and then every now, and then something comes along with it like how the hell did that pass, and then they free yeah, exactly like proposition eight, where they're uh field, gay marriage and everybody was like. Are you fucking kidding me in California? You repeal gay marriage them uh,

shocking thing about proposition eight to me was that over almost over the majority of black people voted for it. They voted to repeal gay marriage. They didn't want gay marriage, which is you know. Quite hilarious. If you start thing about people that have been persecuted right, I mean who has been a victim of unfair discrimination in this country more than black people. Hello! No! Well I mean I don't know because I wasn't involved in any way, but the. But I've heard that when you they exactly to your point. That was one of the reasons, and that was particularly case because it is in the year Obama was running and you had a high turnout amongst those people precisely because you have the first black I'm in Canada on the ballot for president, so he had more people voting That was one of the consequences. Yes, I have never sat. I don't know if that's but that's certainly what some have argued. Crazy, seventy percent- that's the exit polls said,

Seventy percent of black people voted for proposition. Eight. That's stunning and the idea being for a lot of 'em. That is it was a religious decision yeah. I think that was a big big part of the story. That's told Someone should tap challenge that and what they should do is they should make some sort of a proposition banning shrimp. You know like like have like these big signs in front of red lobster. The genesis like whatever, whatever the quote in the Bible that says here, because there's four times as many references to shellfish as there is to gay people is like like a lot of references to like that you're not supposed to eat shrimp. But you can go to an all, unique buffet and people right after church. That's really out right, so I don't know how we allow it. You right. You said you know, this needs to be stopped, it's bad, but they can't that, for whatever reason the gay thing like really locked on the people, Are they really got into it? They really got into it,

for whatever reason you know the gate, the decision. The decision to stop gay marriage seemed to be like one that Jesus this is really serious about that shrimp and Pikachu, let's get tattooed how many religious people have crosses tattooed on their body. I mean this fucking, frankly, is that in the I didn't know that I'm Jeff Tattoos, no yeah that sound upon yeah you're, not supposed to market itself. Okay notes was tied to yourself. That's that's against God's wish, but people will tattoo themselves with biblical verses, which is you know, Polaris yeah, well, people weird, you know and my point I was trying to make find clumsily earlier was that it's kind of strange. That we are so varied, and it's kind of strange that everyone does get like If there's three of us in a room, we know we have to offer all side, and if one of us

retarded, literally, but are people with down syndrome or people that are anyone? That is, mentally compromise, or they allowed to vote, I mean. Is there some sort of a test if you hide that, I don't know what the rules are. I think in and in Britain? It was something to do with. I but the only thing was a few in jails. I can't remember well if you're a felon in America is never let you recover, we don't Let you recover from that. So if you're a felon, you don't get to vote like yeah, you fucked up too much what you never can know. I don't believe so, preacher felons don't get to vote because Joey Diaz always talks about that. Don't get to about. I know they can't carry yeah state felon voting laws. Yes, it looks like it's different in every state

states allow felons to vote from prison while other states may permanently prevent felons from voting even after being released. So it's different varies from state to state amazing permanently, prevent yeah. They lose they vote. They cannot vote permanently in eleven states, Alabama, Arizona, Delaware, Florida, Iowa, Kentucky Mister B, no Voda, Tennessee Co. Incidentally, all places I would never fucking live how weird haha yeah you're worried about the rules. I think the um that is amazing to me that there's literally This assumption that there's no chance you get on to get back turn around never makes an American make a felony when you're eighteen, like some stupid thing, he go to jail. Come out and become like the best person ever and there

never going to. Let you I mean that's ridiculous. I mean the whole point of what you, when do with the criminal justice system and so on is to try and exact you rehabilitate people, so they don't offend again. I mean that's and then try and get people to that yeah. I think people are just so tired of people just fucking up that they, like you, I want this is a good way to keep fuck ops. From voting like once, like the idea that we were talking about earlier, that you know, a person could be a racist, a person could be acomp, delete, nutter and still vote along I'm with a person, who's really kind and educated their vote counts equally there in a community that as soon as that, nutter Rob something that goes. It's a good way to cut amount of system, alright, fuck that guy, you can't vote anymore, yeah, which I cast kinda makes sense, but

maybe just a numbers thing. If there's ten people on an island, we would have to rehabilitate the guys, told the coconuts we have to say come on man. It can't be stealing everybody. Coconuts is a fucked up way to live your life and should contribute stops. Fish stopped stealing coconuts getting together and they would let that guy yeah. I think that, simply by the way, so that I think is incredibly important point about about Democracy Jenner, the closer is to real community. Where everyone knows each other right, where the decisions are made kind of by people who can look the other person in the eye and all that I think they to be better. I think one of the problems is that you've got these big systems and there there they're kind of really far from the human level, where that kind of trust can be a published, and that is one of the problems with allow of things in government and politics. It's all just too big and rich from the human scale. Well, that's a home with a lot of things when it comes to human beings, just diffusion of responsibility that comes with being uh sort of a massive group like war, the id

so that if there's three hundred million of us and a million of us are overseas, you know fighting for freedom. That's sort of like you deal with that because it's not happening in Calabasas. You know you try you go to work and you could deal with your life and in your, the scope of your world doesn't come up, but you can peripherally aware that this is happening somewhere else, but if pull in Van Nuys we're going to war with people in studio city- and it was uh couple miles away and you had to deal with that- then it would be something we would have to try to calm down. We have to try to deal with this like what the fucks going down here like what are we doing here? We have to something you have to deal with, but the sheer number of human beings that are involved in the world today in communities and cultures- it's just it's almost unmanageable, it's an unmanageable for a person who is not designed for that were designed essentially to deal with our immediate atmosphere or does to deal with small tribes of people, friends, family, the peep.

You know the people that you keep close and when you get Ask that it's just like almost like what do I don't know what to do with this, and so we pass the buck off. Some represent. I think this is such an important point. I really do believe that I think that so many things don't work because they get Away from the point where you can really know the other person, the all the group that you're with there's some guy in in England Cambridge University about the maximum number of people that you can really have any kind end of human relationship with anyone time. I think he got to number one hundred and fifty Dunbar's number is. That is that right, so yeah more about it than I do. I thought that was just a really interesting perspective on it, which is, which is that after that, it just gets to diffuse, were not does before it's like your phone, your phone, there's only has a certain amount of data that old, fucking goofy little phone. You carry around with you. If you I have an older one like when those Motorola Startac's, you know, remember those from back in the day big parking, goofy clunky thing. I mean that Prob.

We only carry one hundred phone numbers, I mean I don't know how many they add, but the amount of data that you can store new devices represents the need that we have, but we have these same biological hard drives. That caveman, I said I mean they're, not really much different than people that lived a million years ago mean how much has it changed. I mean how many, how much more room do we have for social relationships? Apparently, not much like fifty thousand years ago- and today, if you cook a guy who lived fifty thousand years ago and a guy who lived today and you compare the brains, how Who are they very? You could take a fifty thousand year old man, dress him up and clue tools and set him down in a movie theater and you'd walk right by him. You wouldn't even know when you're sitting in your seat, you wouldn't go holy shit, that's a fucking caveman! I mean the guy. You look very remarkably similar to how you look and I look and how normal folks look today yeah

are not designed for this world that we've created and it's popped up. So damn quick, yeah exactly it's really. The last kind of definitely one hundred years, but you know, and it's just getting faster and faster. You know this kind of everything becoming really kind of organ. Is this sort of inhuman level in this add struggle to sort of organize it? And I too, control it and just just comment down, get a handle on the effects of it, and I, I think, in a lot of ways, that's what you're doing with this crowd pack thing with this crowd. Thing is, You are utilizing these tools, these tools of the internet in this instant access to information that we have today to sort of a stab lish, a much clear sense of where political candidates are

from and what are their influences as far as who is financing them, where it is, do you know where is their money coming from where their decisions headed towards what? What are they? What are they doing right now? Yeah, I think that's that's a really good some of it, which is that, basically, we think that when you talk to people about politics, one of the things they say is that we just don't know enough about it. We don't know enough information generally, but we don't know we don't have information. We can trust. We have all spin and ads and all the rest of it from the politicians. We can't really believe them. There's all stuff around on the internet, I don't know what to believe. So. What we're trying to do is people really objective information that they can rely on to figure out. The politicians are on the is that they care about, and the thing that we found from our research is. That is my one of my co founders, Adam, who is a professor at Stanford's, I'm working on this for many years and

Basically, what he's shown is that the best way to predict what a politician will do if they are elected is to look at where to get their money and look. It was I who they give money to his most politicians. Also. Could have done are the candidates. If you look at all that campaign, finance information, the man behind this politician is going to give you the best guide to what they really going to do in office. And it's something that you can actually what, which one is like turn that into really Simple information that you can without kind of reading tons of stuff and doing loads of research. You can get a quick snapshot of who these people are, and then in time. The other thing we want to do is make it possible for you to find the politicians the a really good or add on the issues that you care about and get involved in their campaigns, because the other thing is that you've got a tiny, tiny number of people who are funding all these campaigns. If you look at the total number of people who put money into politics,

really small number compared to the number of people who vote and then the number of adults in the whole country that tiny number, the funding at all, and even within that most of the money comes from an e, the smaller number and they are paying for all of this and they're getting the comes that they pay for it, the transaction and that's why really crazy, and so people say right, you go get money out of politics just going to get it out and really. That is something that has a lot of appeal. You can see why you would want to do that. There's a print guy called Larry Lessig. I don't know if you come across he's been doing and he's been arguing about this for years and he's been saying: he's a ha but Harvard is a brilliant campaign on this issue of money in politics and he's been saying if you think, any problem in America today, whatever the issue is that you care about? If that's game, marriage or the environment doesn't matter what it is you're not going getting anywhere of

in terms of solving that problem. Unless you deal with the first problem, which is the money because the money in politics stops the proper solutions from being developed, because what it means is that you've got special interests who had weather that left or right this matter with his big businesses or union, doesn't matter they want that for an outcome and that get through the system. So we've got get the money out and he got a campaign around that and he wants public funding for elections and so on, and all that is kind of a noble aim. I guess, but my feeling is that that's a really hard sell, because you got constitution that says it's free speech allowed to give money to to politicians, and we can't just kind of stop that you let people donate to politicians and so are, that is to say well, if you can't take money out, that's at least dilute the influence of the people there right now by letting more people making it easier for more people to get involved and

give money to these candidates. So they are not dependent on these big donors. With that particular interests and that's really what we're trying to do is kind of make it easier for people to get involved in politics. So they can really gay these politicians off this hook, their own, which is that dependance on these donors for their campaign spending, which means that once they are elected, it's kind of inevitable that they pay attention to them rather than the people who elected them. In that one, a lot of ways, it mirrors the influence that the internet has had on the news itself because, as the news used to be distributed only through these proper channels, whether it was NBC Cbs and then you know the cable news, networks, CNN Fox and all this jazz. But now it's become this thing where websites develop Huffington pose all these. The young Turks, which is an internet based news, show, and they have

no censorship. They have no restrictions, they have no influence other than the ones that they choose to accept or the ideas that they break and they have the same amount of distribution that everybody else does, and you can have a website just MIKE's mikes dot com and put it up if enough, people find it valid and interesting. He I have a million hits a day unique visits a day and it might be more than CNN gets an just simply because of the fact that it's good information, it's what you've shown that with this I mean you know you reaching more people, then the most of these. I think all of these news sites for ten half million a month like more than just about anything else. You know so it's crazy is exponentially. Doubling and tripling, and and and what what's happening is it's all day be being done? No promotion mean promotion is like is I let people know Hey Steve Hilton's on today and then just

so yeah I mean that Mister excited to hear that from twitter and just spreading the word. But what I was getting at is that, like the same way, the internet has sort of interfered with the distribution of information. Look at what's going, done with this Edward Snowden case is a perfect example. This massive change in the way the entire country looks at the NSA and govern spying was done by one man leaking information to one guy in one in source which spread through the internet and then boom it blossoms this huge new story that was essentially if he had sent that same story through the proper channels selected New York Times or CNN, they would have no the fuck out of it. They would have figured out a way to cover that thing and throw it under the rug and stable that rug down and light it on fire. I mean what he did was

figure out a way to distribute things for this through this new channel and essentially that's what the internet is doing with with voting before some like the internet came along, it was very difficult to find out who the influences of all these different individual candidates were with something like crowd pack, it becomes much more easy and that also will change the way these people interact with yeah. I think so, and you know I really hope that that is. You know we just the start of it. To be honest, I think the the little world is really late for this kind of change. Compare is, like you say, with media and other things and things that we experience every day in our lives, like you know, like travel and can do you know that they used to be it in a time when you need to get an airline ticket, you lateral physically, go to some show off and then have these like weird paper to you know the whole thing just feels so antiquated, and now it's uh simpler is really like you saying it's you've got the power to do it empowered. Now you get it on phone, you have a ticket and that's

phone over the scanner thing. That hasn't really happened to politics yet, but that is what we're trying to do because and others as well. It's not just us, but you know, I think that we've got something interesting here, which is this way of giving people objective information about the candidates based on who gives them money, but but overall, we're part of this movement of trying to really put or in peoples hands through technology and I'm sure it's going to happen, I'm really sure, because people one you know they are sick of just feeling that they don't get any response in these people over here, control everything and nothing ever really changes and actually politicians themselves. In my experience, you know you think. Well, maybe I would say, because I used to work in is myself for the Prime Minister in the UK, so I can know them they they used to be my world to be my world. My feel is that, generally the politicians, actually hate, is just as much as everyone else. They hate the fact that they have

spend so much time raising money you know. Actually there is this document that was leaked uh, the New York Times. I think awhile back from the Demak Cratic leadership in Congress, where they would gave a kind of guide to the newly elected members of Congress about how they should spend their time, and it was a recommendation to the newly elected members of Congress and it went through how many hours a day they should spend on different types of activity. You know thinking about Polisy talking to constituents this coming, half of the time is four hours was recommend they spend on fundraising while right and so the people going to plus they don't want to live like that. They actually hate it. They hate, you know, be we shoved in a room with is what happens and being they call it billing for dollars. You know like this literally sitting on the phone trying to raise my

that's, not why they went into politics. How do they do that? They just call random people up or do they have the rest of potential? Don't give? I don't know exactly, have it done it, but I think they that literally at their given lists likely people to then it is, do do Dee, Dee hi. I am running for Congress in the thirty third district and I would I'd like to get gay marriage the out of here. What do you think? I think it's IBM, pretty much like that. I don't know you can talk to some people who know more about it, but uh, you know so I think actually that politicians themselves mostly. I hate the system, and so I think the in a lot of there's a lot of effort actually in Congress to try and encourage more some all donors, and make it easier for people to give money, because actually that's what they want to they don't like being golden to these big donors and companies- and you know they don't like it anymore than we like it. I think all

similarly, the idea of leaders, whether it's a presidential leaders or whether it's a representatives, I think ultimately that's going to go away and my thought about it is that anybody who really wants to lead everyone else is probably an asshole. You know I mean anybody really wants to be the king like. Why do you want to be the king like? Don't you have things to do? It only have hobbies and creative pursue, and like what would you want to just be the guy who gets to control, be the one who stands at the podium, lady and gentlemen? You know, that's that's a week. Ego thing yeah. I think that in two thousand, in fourteen in the world that we live in today, where we're seeing this, more even distribution of influence, I think but ultimately that's going to be one of those things that gets called into question like. Why do we have an alpha representative? Why do we have to have this head monkey in charge?

You really agree with that. I mean a lot of the things that I was trying to do when in the government, in the U K and and and it's kind of part of what we doing the crap thank is is to you know, try and courage that even distribution, that more even distribution of town redistribute power from the key, the traditional source, the power is going to central leadership, imputing, putting power people's hands, so that can control more and more aspects of their life because in the end, they'll make better decisions overall, and it's also just bad healthy, I think going back to what we're saying earlier about the way people can only no small number of people and and if you give them power to shape more of the things that happened in their lives. I think that actually they will take more responsibility. They will be more responsible in a community, says you'll, just see everything get better. If you power out of the hands of sort of need, leaders and central organizations and put it in the hands of people definite,

I think I think you're right. I think, there's also an issue of it being overwhelming the amount of information that you have to absorb whenever you deal with political issues, whenever you deal with campaigns whenever you deal with new elections, you know, given this pamphlet of different people and the different propositions that are up for vote and you just get overwhelmed yeah, especially if you're. If you have a job, taxing as it is, and you have a family and you know thinking about golfing on the weekend. God like to go golfing and you look at all this bullshit and like oh, I can't even pay attention, as is every ok right now, yes will fucking. Let me just get this over with and, let's hope everything stays. Ok and very few people take sponse ability for what gets voted in yeah and it is you're right though it is really talk. It's it's hot, it's easy to say are voters are lazy or whatever they should be. Pretty honestly, like you say, they've got real lives to live, and then we got time

and for all this stuff, and that is a really big part of why we want to make it simple. You know we are assuming that people wanna, spend less time doing this no more time and I think a lot of the kind of when I say shins and people that I've tried to get people. You know immobilized in a civic organization in the contest in that kind of thing, you know, is a He's worked a certain extent with some people, but for the majority of people they just don't want to do it. They they can't do it. Actually they literally too busy with things that are their priorities like their kids in their family and their job or whatever. It may be hobbies dozen stuff that they choose to do and that's fine and that's their life, and we shouldn't kind of require that you have to spend age is figuring out this medical stuff and that's. Why we're trying to make it really simple for people but based on quite a lot of comp That's what technology allows you to do. You can take quite a lot of complex

data and information like we doing with the campaign finance records, where it's literally hundreds of millions of pieces, some information and we're boiling it down. Into one piece of info, which is a school like weary this candidate on the scale of liberal, to conservative, whether they said and where are they on each issue? That's what we trying to make it really simple? Isn't it sort of analogous in a way to we're talking about about the amount of people that you can keep in your brain they had on the bar summer? Yeah? Is that if you lived in a small tribe if safe, we all live fifty of us together in some small village somewhere,

we really wouldn't have votes about gay marriage, and we really wouldn't have calls about exactly. This is be a million different things that would never be up for vote and if someone really did start micromanaging everyone's lives, you be be like hey, you know MIKE is an. We got a kick him out of his tribes, guys trying to get people to wear purple, and you know where certain nineties there and different moon cycles and make tribal rules and rituals and make all these things standard, and you know, for whatever reason he doesn't like men sleeping with men. Like he's, got some weird thing. You know he believes it apart. So true, I just so agree with that. One of my favorite things that uh one of these experiments that happened was in HOLLAND and think I've got that right in in in Europe, and they did this brilliant experiment with traffic where they town. I think it was friesland or something like that probably got that wrong, where they

actually took away all the traffic signals, all of them everything they took away traffic lights. They they even took it, stop signs everything, even though the markings on the road, so they took away the white line in the middle of the road everything all gone and their theory was that without that kind of sternal rule making and kind of stuff go, I want to tell you what to do. People would have to kind of to each other, as other people, just figure it out amongst themselves, so they would have Since I've looked other people in the eye and sort of work it out, between them and they found they had this brilliant effect, which was that acts. It fell to zero. The traffic improved that fix speed was lower, but the traffic flow was much better. It would just worked all run all the kind of things that you try and do and all these people think about traffic planning and whatever they are, but all those aims by literally taking everything away and just allowing

people to relate to each other as humans and make. I thought such a great story, and I think that you could do that. In all sorts of areas. If you just leave it to people to figure out on a small scale where they can relate each other. Much better result. Isn't that the she, though the small scale, I think we're dealing with I drove here. Ok, I live about twenty minutes from here an in the drive from my house to hear didn't know anybody. I don't know any it's people they might not even be real. They might be robots that were sent from the government to pretend the NSA Oak and that's on the daily was maybe not even the. I don't know them. You know so. There's there's that issue. Where is everyone in Friesland or whatever the fuck that place? Those in HOLLAND, those those people probably all know each other. You know Small area, there's not a lot when you get to some weird number like that. Twenty million people that are live in the greater LOS Angeles area. That's too crazy!

it's too! It's too naughty an there's, nothing less human than a light. A stoplight red means Stop green means go, wait! Look at it! It's green! Go it's so disconnected from human interaction, and without it we become crippled, there's

no better chance that you're going to run into a traffic stop or a traffic jam. Then, if a cop is directing, if there's a cop it standing there telling you people go for the new people, stop for sure that guys fucking that intersection up sideways every time. I go into one of those situations where the light is down and there's a cop standing there. It's a fucking disaster, whereas if it was just a light, it just red light, green light, everything seems to work 'cause, we're sort of program to wait for that light robots you just yeah, you can follow that cop. Is there like? Oh this, mother, fucker, look at no wonder this thing is a mess. It's a person out there telling us when we can go fuck him who is he is ask, Wolf that Falk telling me when to go. You know in this. This weirdness involve and all of a sudden there's a human element, that's been thrown into our robot light thing: and then there's a you know this cam

that they're putting on them for a while, which were hilarious on the actual cops. No, no, no! No on the lights, because they're doing that too, I think on the cob yeah yeah they should. They should do that on all cops, because they do that on all cops. Everything a cop does all throughout the day should be recorded and it should be on tamper, pull that they shot. That I genuinely think that's what they're trying to do so much abuse. It's just massive amounts of abuse when it comes to police officers I think there's a lot of great cops out there. It is not that I don't believe in law enforcement, but I believe many of 'em are abusive. Fox and many of 'em are psychologically unable to deal with the demands of an incredibly stressful life yeah. It is I completely agree with the way you put it that there's tons of them that are great, and then there are others that totally of is that position and that's another really interesting example of how technology can be really helpful in in a way we can you can you can have the. I think I thought

I try to do in here. The LAPD that, if you put the cameras on and you can't mess around with them. That's a real, powerful incentive, huge to behave right complain, have dropped dramatically and they drop dramatically, 'cause cops can't be can't anymore. I mean it's really that simple. It really is that simple? What talking about was that traffic traffic lights. They were having lights like if you were going through the light as it was yellow and it turned red they would flash. So if you- those were not you know it was that they were in front of the line you had made a cross for for the light turned red. They will give you a ticket and it, but it it turned out to be a private company that was actually proud getting from these tickets and so dean that unconstitutionally real removed all those lights. But people were just in a God, damn uproar, it was just it madness everywhere you go there taking long, he see full flashes, going off at traffic lights, and all was his revenue. It was preventing people from running lights or preventing people from you know God

when the light turns yellow. It was just just fucking people out of their money, and it was just one more thing where they complicate this system for the add one more element that makes it one more thing. You have to think about one more little piece of control and one, dehumanizing aspect people. Like freedom and one of the reasons why people like freedom is because freedom isn't just the freedom to do as you wish. It's the him to not have to think about a bunch of other shit and be influenced by a bunch of other shit. That takes your time away and takes you your enerji away and I think that's where we're at when it comes to a lot of these propositions and a lot of these really uber. Complicated things that are involved in our day to day lives. It's like we've complicated ourselves to this point of almost of no return and where there's very few, very few alternatives.

I think that the thing that happens then is that they complicated it. Then it not working and is all we could better, try and fix it, and then the fixing It makes it even more complicated and just get in there and then a new government comes in or a new governor or whoever it may be an Insta, actually just stopping the game. You know what this, what we just got to rethink the whole thing and start from scratch and it's not tinker with it anymore and try and improve it, because it's just going to make it more complicated. That never happens. There's, never enough time. For that to happen, they're not there they're, only thinking about the next couple of years in the next election or whatever, and so things just get I'm even more complicated and they never. They never seem to get to that point weapon in and that's really working great now my wife and I this restaurant in the night and the the the restaurant was this- that we were noticing that there's a scene that's going on and a lot of restaurants where they have like this raw rustic thing going on where they have old school lights, the filament cinnamon. Then they have hardwood

tables and wrought iron. This and metal that and and but I think people are sort of reacting to this fabricated world that we've created- and we long for this simplicity- that's why These shows, like these Alaska shows, were people living on the and tear and their fucking collecting wooden fighting off wolves. It's We almost long for that simplicity above this world that we've complicated to this almost unmanageable point yeah. It's definitely true, and you see in in so many areas that I mean is it like food is a is a great example was doing all this kind of stuff about. We can eat food and seasonal and local and grow in your button in that whole movement, I think, is a reaction. I mean, if you think, about food, years ago, like in the 50s. I think you know it was all about um let's have another kind of tv dinners, not package food, and all this kind of industrialized food it was then seen as better be is. It was science,

fake and hygienic, and like really kind of good for you and then people that now just thinking that is just really horrible. This is all the chemicals is disgusting. Now the movement is all for this kind of low call organic food. It made me laugh, though, because my family from Hungary, and so when I was a kid we used to go back to hungry the whole time. It was a communist country and there were no food stores and loads of choice and everything and you would go in the store, and it was just you know what you got it's just a few sort of vegetables, and it was just very basic now but the other day, walking around in San Francisco and there's the kind of farmers market thing going on, and they had that kind of vegetables and whatever put out there and it just looked exactly like hunger, hungarian communist food shop, but here in San Francisco, is the most expensive fancy amazing food that you can get, but just makes me laugh really. I think a lot of it is just you know. You know action to what's gone before and we I think you're totally right in this kind of sense of just

too far the whole. Industrialization of so many different aspects of our lives was also we're starting to realize where people live in cities and they look around and they see all these buildings and they see this asphalt and they see these telephone poles and they go there's no food here to bring in the food like this is kind of crazy like and then you get on top of a building. You look around at how far the no food here area is. It's pretty God, damn big, and then you look at all the different people that live in the no food here area that require food. You like fuck, gotta feed these fucking people, and then you go where this water coming from and then you know it comes from Colorado. What's the water comes from fucking what it comes for the Colorado River. Oh, no, so the only way we get water in California is. We have to take it from thousands of way thousands of miles away. That's the this is a crazy. To be like During his unsustainable environment, an

new people move here everyday, new one thousand people every day, bump bump am set up. A fucking house built this another structure boom and then we slowly push out are, no food here area deeper and deeper into the desert. Ann you know, no one is thinking about where this goes and so far so good sustainable go to the farmers market. You can get plenty good groceries, but very bizarre if there's somehow or another, some cut off of our oil supply. Some some way where we can't travel as easily anymore we're in a real rut, so not a good spot. It's not ideally in every neighborhood should have like a couple of acre where it's set up where you grow food, yeah like that, will community garden. I just totally grew that there's a there's, a brilliant guy, don't you Crossing Guard Nassim Taleb. He wrote this book for the black swan and he's who's really he's a

petition and he was in the financial markets and, and he really kind of predicted the crash and understood all that and he's just great and of his big points is that these big Sis terms that we've ended up with and the word he uses are that completely fragile. There re they look big and solid, but actually we soda pendant on them that they, makes us really fragile if they collapse will fall over whatever, whether that's a company or some government system. We re he screwed, because that so dependant and that's real. We're kind of fragile situation, and so that It's definitely one that there is a sort of love. What he writes about and talks about. Is that he's a for exactly that kind of thing. You know making sure that companies don't get You big to fail, not just in the financial sector. Lot of people have talked about that with the banks. There's two big dick and argument, but in every area with the food system and other, so businesses where we're so dependent, if something went wrong, we you know we couldn't cope and when you have small distrib

it is just like were talking earlier about the power being distributed is not just voting there are political parrots economic power in social path. Every type of power. It's just going to be much better for us if it's distributed more broad and we're a long way from that, it's actually going in the other direction. Yeah, it's going the other direction. An very few cities are Domini, bring in population and less something horribly wrong like Detroit. Where, if have you ever been to Detroit, have not it's fascinating, while you're over here in America and you're enjoying our fine country, you should go see our biggest disaster. Detroit at one point in time was this economic stronghold for America? It's where we Camaros and corvettes and fight birds, and it was this place where it was where America built and what it built best, which is besides buildings. It's cars, America built cars and

it all fucking fell apart. It fell apart when they started moving jobs to Mexico and all in other countries. It felt part when they started producing shittier and shittier cars and when there is all or complications with unions and whether this is one million different problems and then slowly but surely they started diminishing these leaf factories and there's a really in listing documentary. I don't know if you watch Michael Moore's, first documentary Roger and me did you receive them. Roger me was all about. Flint MI was about his hometown where they closed these plants and then these p went into immediate massive poverty and it was a huge, huge issue, an if you go to Detroit today. You could buy a house for five hundred dollars and I'm not bullshitting. They had houses for sale. I was there five hundred bucks and it's a mess, a real mess. I mean there's an error.

Were they trying to gentrify these areas and are building local businesses and they're. Trying to you know, encourage growth, and you know- I mean if a company wanted to move there, they have a massive amount of people that are looking for jobs and cheap land, and it's a good idea. It's a good place to start, but very, very difficult to encourage people to do so so Detroit shows how easy things could fall apart and there's been a bunch of blogs that have been created where they've webs it's, where they've shown how these trees and nature or taking over these areas that used to be populated with trees. Are all those pictures yeah? It's amazing. I remember that now yeah bear the interest. Tears are moving into these areas that used to be at least to have towns. And bears are slowly started moving their way into Detroit and it's fucking crazy nights. Yeah, but that's show you how easily it could all fall apart, whereas you know fifty sixty years ago here some image we just put up. Is it tree

It is growing inside of this abandoned building it just growing through the floor and eventually they'll make their through the roof and the roof will rotten? Just shows you how easy it is for nature to claim there is a human beings feel like if well, this is a city. Now now it's the before now it's not a city! Now it's not permanently a city like this trees, just go to the airport drive down. There's areas where it's really old roads in these trees have grown up through the sidewalks, so bad that the sidewalks are. You know you can't walk on him. I mean they're like ramps 'cause. The tree has slowly but surely lifted up the concrete of the sidewalk as trying to Rico name. This area they put this stupid Rock paste over yeah. You know, I think, that's like

one of the best examples of how easy it could all fall apart, and I guess that point about being dependent on something yeah. But it's interesting because you are a lot of of going around other in getting to know other american cities. I mean I mean that's a bad example. You've got some really great cities seems to be driving and working images, really cool places to deliver work. I love Chicago either is an amazing place, rent out, but then you've got a huge problem with with it's just so interesting how you have a city that is so great in so many ways and that then they've got this. This sort of pocket of poverty and crime and that's been going on for years and despite all the other advantages, and they got a lot of great economic growth going on there and so on people visiting and it's great, but they still go put this in trench problem with crime and gun violence, and you know it's it's interesting. How.

How long it takes for some of these problems to be worked out? Yeah Chicago is a disaster. In that sense, it's a great city, but it's also a disaster in the sense of crime and gang violence, and I was there. I was talking to this. Guy was a cop and he's explaining it to me that a big problem is the drug trade and that, certain gang members were incarcerated and because incarcerated they created a vacuum that was, there was a power struggle to try to fill the vacuum that path. Our struggle started, this sort of violent war going on between all these different criminal factions, and then you know it builds up an you know. He was really kind of interesting, interesting. She was talking about it goes. You know what the best way to fix it, he goes legalize drugs. He goes nobody wants to hear about it, but the reason why they're, making all this money because they're selling something that's illegal, and so, when you're selling something that's illegal, the only people that are doing that are the people that are criminals.

And he goes as soon as you make it legal. You could deal with a personal choice issue and the guy was like very rational about it and it was like you deal with a personal choice issue instead of a crime issue, but That's exactly right, I think, is one of the more interesting ways into that. Whole drug legalization argument is to think about the social, problems that come from the current rules, not not just a lot of times. People too, about the drug use. Being the social problem, but actually it's everything that comes from it, the crime in the gangs and that's uh, did you know that the most intelligent argument, full legalization yeah? There was a real, interesting article recently about Mexico. They were talking about the cartels like hemorrhaging money because they relied on. Marijuana trade and now with legal marijuana, has just the legal marijuana in Colorado and, and in Washington State, and then all the medical places have massively diminished the amount of influence

these guys have of the amount of wealth that they can get from selling illegal drugs, because people don't need it anymore super easy to get so with the marijuana trade, which is one of the most common drugs kind of drying up for them and so they're scrambling to try to find some other avenues of revenue, so the interesting stuff 'cause, it's just Those people like this is what you do when you make things illegal and we I figured it out in the 1920s with prohibition. I mean it's amazing that people are so goofy today that they still or dealing with the same issue that they kind of resolved in the 1920s you almost one hundred years ago, they figure this out with alcohol, and they have to re, learn the same lesson with with cannabis. It's just it's nutty. It's again it's another thing where it's words, small issue, where you have. Too many God Damn laws. You have too many restrictions on percents exactly right and it's interesting. I think that the politicians have been

not for a long time from doing anything about it by the kind of real. And they'll think they'll get from certain parts of the press and so on. Actually, I think that's changing, and it's changing really quickly here in America and the fact that you've got these The measures that are winning in different states and that's just going to accelerate, I think, not just that the amount of revenue they pull in with no resistance whatsoever. Colorado has thirty nine percent tax revenue on marijuana that sold recreationally thirty nine percent and everyone. There is like ok, thirty, nine, that's cool no one's arguing over the most preposterous sales rate. Ever that is thirty. Nine percent is fucking crazy. It's basically the government is a drug dealer. I mean that's what it is I mean so you're not just taking taxes, you're fucking, a partner, you're, a partner in this thirty nine percent is a big partner, your it almost forty percent, okay and then they're making over one hundred million dollars a year in tax revenue; Justin,

Colorado so that kind of money starts coming in then that money has influence, and then they have to respect the pot dollar because the hot dollar is going to be a lobby just like anything else, just like the pharmaceutical lobby, just like the natural resource lobby, just like anything else, the pot lobby, is going to be legit. Now because there's a we have tremendous amount of revenue available, an big business there there's a big businesses that are moving into Colorado right now. Establishing warehouse warehouse spaces in Colorado are just there of operating, they're, disappearing, left and right. 'cause people just picking him up there. The great Colorado's laws are set up in order to sell marijuana, you have to grow marijuana, if you wanted to open up a shop in Colorado, you'd have to grow your own stuff and then sell it. You can't buy it from Nelson and selling. Just

giant, warehouses everywhere, being scooped up and they're setting up these massive growshops and then they're funneling that money, because it's being sold legally the funneling that money right back in this state at a rate of thirty nine percent, it's crazy and he huge companies are slowly but surely creeping their way to is Colorado because they realize this is. This is uh multi billion dollar industry in just a couple of years, you're looking at three four five years from now, among time billion dollar industry nationwide places where they're having serious money, be issues serious problems with generating tax revenue, all of the sudden, all the prof, so they're, going to illegal sales of marijuana. Now thirty nine percent of that money is you, come right to the taxpayers, a right to the tax collectors and if they got any, I guess it's a bit early, but I just wondering what the, but there saying, in terms of

whose behavior, the usage lower crowd. The other truck is that right, lower crime and lower murder rates, murder rates have dropped in Denver, yeah course there hi there, They did not give it to us we're going to think twice, they're going to think about need a sheet that too it has an asshole, but whatever it's his problem, you know, look it's it's never good to suppress people and when you have something that's irrational, marijuana laws there. It gives people this feeling of frustration. Does this disconnect it go this feeling of being disenfranchised with the the people they are supposedly in charge? You know make some upset like: why should a grown man be able to there's? Only two of us were living on an island, and I like Steve. I don't think you should smoke pot. If you smoke pot, I'm gonna lock you in a fucking cage. You build you're an asshole like there's only what do you give a shit? What I do it's, when

there's two million of us that you feel like you can get away with something like that that someone come along and say I'm the sheriff, and if I find someone smoking marijuana in my district, I'm going to put him under lock and key my guards treats safe for the children, all that stupid shit that they say well, what it's just too many numbers too many people, but what I'm interested in is like just coming to I've been here two years now, but I don't get it feeling that that is a really quite almost mainstream position. A lot of people feel like that in america- maybe it's a California thing. I don't know, but then I'm interested, why the liberty, arian movement. You know the political expression of that kind of attitude is libertarian part the the candidates, they don't see, to get anywhere. They don't seem to do well, even though that kind of attitude feels to me, like it's really very kind of true to the american approach to Is an is shared by a lot of people? I kind of hear that a lot I think,

it's slowly but surely starting to gain momentum, but I think the internet's influence is barely barely two decades. One thousand nine hundred and ninety four to twenty fourteen right. That's the realistic, take on it. But the real impact. As far as like social impact, I would, I would say it's probably a decade so Ten years is not that much time and in that decade, how much of it has been concentrated on social change and how much of his big concentrated on porn. You know how much is concentrator look. We can see tits anytime. We want now woo and new found freedom, this newfound ability to access information. It's going to take awhile before I think people are evolving right now. I really do socially. At a rate, that's just unheard of never did the kind of movements that you're seeing now, whether you move them or not whether it

operation Wall Street or whether it's anytime there's a social change or social movement in this country. Whether I agree with it or not. It's fascinating this step back and watch this swarm of activity that takes because of any issue that comes up now, that really couldn't couldn't happen before with you know, you have to have like a physical meeting, you'd have to have, people would get together, and so we have to have a megaphone and well we're. Now you do is take back, the streets will win to do is make the world safe for our children and we need to get out of Vietnam yeah. You know, and then you know the cops come and BR map, but hoes everybody down, and they would shut down the problem, but you can't do that anymore. You can't shut down the problems. 'cause, the problem exists on Reddit. The problem exists on millions of people's twitter accounts. Are there posting things that probably exists on Facebook? The problem exists anytime. There is dissent that dissent sort of

encapsulates an entire group of people that share these ideas and they can freely communicate, and I think they're just starting to realize that they can freely communicate the way they can and unfortunately, a lot of them are annoying. Fortunately, a lot of people in a fit figure this out or annoying, and you see these really dumb ideas that spread like wildfire. Our from the house, fire to idiots are behind it and it's that's fascinating to watch too, but ultimately, when it all by bounces itself, out we're going to deal with a much more informed, much more educated, much more aware, much more socially conscious society than we have ever had in the past. I think Kate from now to DEC two decades from now we're going to see the rewards of this, and I'm very optimistic. I like that. That way, think about, and I agree, and I guess what we're the the way we think about it is that that we want to come now. The next step really is to really take that

Energi and and really direct it into the heart of the political system, not kind of on the edges of it with protests and in and sort of social movements that really getting into the guts of the of the way laws are made and and the and the way the around the states around cities around and end injecting into the into the real heart of power. I think that's going to be the next Yes, I I agree. I hope that it can be done. I mean, I wonder if the way technology is advancing and the way technological innovation seems to exponentially increase, if there's some way to manage things in a way, that's sort of not discovered yet or sort of hasn't been no just figured out a way to sort of organize this whole thing in a way. That's it's clear and now we're deal it's almost like code like do you

for what code used to look like when used to use Dawson. If you use an old computer yet emptor, everything it command prompts. But then someone came along. Like Xerox, figured out this graphic user interface, you just well. I don't fuck all that. Just see that thing just double it just press twice when you want to open up and boom and then you see a graphic representation of what you want. That's a much more simplistic element: You don't have to look at all the code behind what you're doing when you're using Microsoft word. Not all that shit out. Let's just see, let's make it real simple, and if we could get get it to that politics like ok, what would make what would we have to do to make more money go towards school and this money go towards war? like? Is that is that away is zero way? We can work that out. If you look at, how much money is being spent on the Iraq war? How much more is being spent in Afghanistan is way to take.

Eighty percent of that put it into our schools, because, my God, the school system, would radically change our education. System would radically change the amount of people that would come out of these educational systems that were More balanced, more aware, had more nuanced perspectives. Would rat we change our country would rattle improve like over the course of a decade. If you could just figure out a way to put that kind of power in peoples hands what they choose to do. Well, I think the way that you do it comes back to what we're saying earlier, is actually literally doing it bye, bye getting rid of these kind of big organisations sent government organizations that try and run the whole system from some office somewhere, that's completely removed from the from the parents and the kids, that's actually using the schools

and really give responsibility for this through the way. This goes operate to Lok communities so that they can try things out, because every kid in kit is different. They learn in different ways. One of an h feels to me like when it comes to education. We got this approach, which is some decided. You know this is the. This is how we going to get kids to learn whatever it may be, and we to try and have a kind of common location of that in every school and every teach the same way and that's great, and I just think the evidence shows that is not right. It doesn't work for every kid and you want. I have a system where you know you got much more ability to experiment, try things out and adapt things to each each different type of child in the way that they learn, and I think we need to see a lot more kind of smaller schools where there much on a community run a bit late, you staying with the gardening. I think it's sort of a community approach to these things is going to be.

The way to do it. You definitely need the money, of course, to sort of have high quality as well. So I agree with that. It's just that If you just put more money into the current system of organizing schools, I don't think you'll get the kind of benefit that you could, if you actually gave the power over the system and took it away from people at the center and put it in the hands of people locally. That's how I would do an if they did that you could also see the results, positive and negative. An imitate. The positive ones directly could see like these. People have an approach and their approach is more sort of Waldorf School based, sunless, electronics and more would toys and interacting with kids and look at the benefits like man. All these people are coming out so creative, but then there's other place in San Francisco. That's much more tech volved everybody has an Ipad and all these kids well, there's a benefit there as well. I mean I think school Is there a huge issue that the massive underfunding of education in this country is a huge huge issue and it's madness and it's almost like.

Sort of ensuring that poverty and that this is going to think that's right and that I mean yeah and it at a lot of it is the kind of people that go into teaching. You know you really want the best people. The smarter's best people going into teaching is like the most important job they get paid. Twenty thousand dollars a year right and there is you're not going to get that if you're paying. Those kind of you know it's really kind of obvious. We apply that in in every other kind of area. Kind of no the Hube. If you pay more, you get something better generally, and I think that that is a huge part of it is actually, if you know trying to get the best People in the countries that have done really well uh. I think the um Finley is a good example from I know, I'm you know, spend quality time. This was in the government. Finland is a place where it is the cult. I think, if you really admired and esteem thing to do and well rewarded, is to go and be a teacher. It's like one of the best things you can do, and that's

I think of a lot of the scandinavian countries and they have better results, as you know, thanks to that, so you've got to just get the best people to go into teaching that I'm really important in this country. The Prohib. The cost of higher education is shocking. When you start about how much money it cost to go to college, how much money it cost to get a degree and you you accumulate student loans that are almost insurmountable. How many p will get out of college in this country? It's amazing that the figures are just unbelievable. They earth so and react yeah just stunningly in debt, like I have a friend who is in his 50s and just paid off his his his on his yes just paid off from medical school this is fuckin insurmountable debt insurmountable debt forever yeah, just slowly but surely chipping away at hundreds of thousands of dollars in educational debt.

It is really amazing. I mean I one of the things I'm doing right now is teaching at Stanford a little bit and, and it's just it was it's ok, there's a kind of good point, which is that it seems maybe that the students are so much more ha not working and motivated than the ones that were certainly than I was not see university but uh. It was all free when we did it in the UK, and here it's not anymore, but it was when I was at college, and here and there paying so much of their parents, are paying so much, they take it really seriously and that's great but the the amounts of money involved is just stagger. Really unbelievable specially when you get to law, school or medical school, or you know any really expensive school like Stanford. That's a very prestigious school. It's going to must be ridiculous. I mean how much does a kid have to pay a year to go to know because they have a lot of They do a lot of great work to kind of make it possible for kids without,

I need to go so they do a lot of grants and scholarships, and I don't know how that all works out. Well, that's it! It's! It's uh but it's a huge amount. Yeah, that's nice and it's beautiful to hear that they do moving along those lines- and it's also beautiful here that I believe it was Mit- has released all of studies online. You can take all of its classes online for free essentially get an mit education through your home computer, very nice. It's very nice that that and you about the amount of access that people have to higher education. Today, when it comes to online courses when it comes to just papers that they could read and download documents- They can watch different things that they can read it kind of incredible yeah and it's actually really powerful in- well just think about America, but um people in in the states who would have had that act. But actually all of the world is this in nine Africa, where you just able to bring

instruction, and you know the best people in the world the best teachers to the most remote village in Africa is completely staggering yeah, it is. It is interesting, and I've always had a fascination with the power or that someone has in the position of being a professor an spell professor with tenure where they have this. You know this the job that essentially it's very difficult to get fired from I mean you have to really do some, really fucked up to lose your position an because and that some of them and I've had friends that have had these professors saw of them, get these incredibly arrogant attitudes and they push their ideas as if their doctrine and they push their own political ideas and their own ideology off. Sometimes a very left wing liberal agenda to the point where it, just in fury certain parents and infuriate

people who disagree with these ideas, who gets silence. It's because you know it's the professors word, and that is in my class. This is how I feel that is not education. I mean to see the whole point is you should be equipping the students to think for themselves and to kind of it comes to their own point of view, but give the tools that they can do that with and go out and then use that knowledge and ability to do great things in the world not to kind of tell them your point of you mean. So you can tell them your point of view but make clear that it is your point of view and there are other interview and it's up to them to decide what they think yeah, but that that humility, humility, oftentimes, lacking when you have a person that has absolute power. That's right. There there's no kind of accountability because it's just you know they don't have to deliver anything that is like one of the common complaints right about. That was amazing thing, though I love this speech that MIKE Bloomberg gave the other. I think it was last week. Did you see this? He went to Harvard, and he

gave a commencement speech, I think, to Harvard where he really attack them on this point and said that had this kind of liberal bias in the in call t there. That was just really that, and the other is is that yeah and he had this great that piece of data, which was that if you look at he's going to have to campaign finance, if you look at the campaign for that's records because they everyone's donations reported, are reported you, when you make a political donation, you have to say what your occupation is. So you it's quite easy to look at type of professions or whatever and where their money goes, and he got this piece of to which was that if you look at the political donations of Ivy League Faculty and stuff- and you look at where the money went in the last election, the figure for how much went to a bomb was ninety six percent. So it's like this total liberal dominance.

And he said that is just not healthy. That is not what the university is supposed to be. The problem is the alternative was far more offensive if they went to John Mccain and Sarah Palin. That four percent is the problem, but it believe it or not. In this country I mean Obama's Not a fan of what this could administer Asian has become especially can turn when it deals with freedom of the press when deals with whistleblowers when it deals with spying on Americans. Like all the revelation that we found out about the lack of privacy, the people have, I'm not fan of that at all, but God damn I'm having Sarah Palin is the vice president of the Fucking United States would have been disastrous, having an old man who's playing poker. Whether talk about going to war with Syria, who was literally sitting on his phone playing poker. You know, I mean what the fuck that the President, that

That was the vice president. Those two dummies mean it's a disaster, that's a fucking god damn disaster so Ofc. Course the most educated among some went for the lesser of two evils: being Obama being a guy who is a very articulate, intelligent guy who's, a whore I mean a sense, that's. What Obama is what he is is a guy who's, very intelligent, articulate guy. We had these ideas and promote this ideology, got in office and did essentially exactly what Bush did. I mean in worse when it comes to most of the stuff him handle. You know all the things that we're going to do we're going to close down Guantanamo Bay. We're going to get out of Afghanistan it turns out. Most of it was bullshit. Most of it. I mean when you talk to people that are that are journalists, this country, has a horrible record in this administration is a horrible record on freedom of the press, a horror, record on punishing whistleblowers and it's the lack of

the lack of respect for for journalism and freedom of the press is is very disturbing to people, because what what is journalism truly well, what it truly is is that your losing reality true journalist is doing, is exposing reality when you punish people for doing that, when you punish peep for blowing the whistle on, was essentially on institutional activities. Like the NSA spying on every single fucking person on the planet, me that's unconstitutional. When you record everyone's phone call, that's about what we want and when the government supports things like that. I mean how How is this the same guy? That was like hope and change? How is this the same? Guy? Well he's the same guy, because the people that fucking got him in the office or the same people that got Bush into office, the same God. Damn influences an things like crowd pack, things that you're trying to

You would expose that for folks yeah. I think that I mean that's the idea, we're trying to be, and you know there is really important that we, you know it is kind of non partisan. So, while we've got a strong point of view about the system generally and how we can improve it, you know we don't ready very important. Besides. We don't have a point of view as a company about individual issues, but I think that we, we do really care about changing the system, and I think that one of the one of the things about the press, that sort of happens and I've seen this on, on both sides of it is that if you there tends this kind of coziness that develops with a lot with a lot of the press or particularly traditional press where you know they want to act, so the politicians and the politicians will get their message out and it just gets quite kind of cozy and so whole roll of instigation and exposing things kind of sometime takes a backseat to having a good relationship so that

You can get your message out and then they get access and I think that's one of the things again. That's really help only being changed by technology like you were saying, which is that you've got people who able to get you know to to do that job of investigation without having to be lot of some cozy around the politician. I mean you can get a lot of softballs and you can see why I mean the point. If you see it from the politicians pov their point of view- and it's you know, there's a lot of truth to is that there try to do stuff. It's really really hard you're not trying to deal with some these problems as difficult as in cry. Expectations. You get shit for what you know just trying your title the scrutiny your life is under scrutiny. It's a really really hard job and they feel that increasingly, the media in the press and you're just interested in the trivial aspects of it and who's up and who's down and they're, not really interested in kind of exposing the flexity of some of these issues blah blah, so that that's how the politicians see it and then

on the other side and that's why they end up trying to you know, have a real ship that enables them to in the in there and the way they see it to explain what they're trying to do a bit better so that they, so people can't give them a fair hearing so that why that all happens, and you know there's a lot of there's a lot of truth. To be honest, it is difficult what they're trying to do. Well, whenever your lip liberal Democrat for conservative makes no difference. It's difficult governing is difficult, is complicated. The problems are complicated. Everyone's got their point if you, you kind of being screamed at and yelled at the whole time, and it's hard now, we choose to go into it. So we can, feel sorry for them. You know they. May that choice, like you say they have, that kind of I'm going to be the leader and I'm going to go there and sort things out. So it's the choice that they made, but it is difficult and that's. Why I want to try and gun control the message. I think, because I feel that a lot of the time they don't get a fair hearing. Well

makes sense in some ways, but it does makes sense from the point of view of the people that are in the position of being a journalist, if you're in the position, being a journalist there enough, your whole position is to expose inequality expose violations of the constitution and when you're in one of those places where you, whether it's for CNN or Fox NEWS or whoever you're working for if you get to sit down with Dick any or you get to sit down with Obama. You're already mewed you're, already neutered, you already silenced, you don't get that chance to proc they're, never going to have Glenn Greenwald sit down with Obama and then open internet form that airs in real time live. They would never agree to that. They would never or agree to this weird. Actually, 'cause, it's a really different tradition in England. When you look the way that interview. If anyone is a tv interview of a politician in England,

so different to what you get here. They really aggressive with them, really real, really really aggressive and and the kind of softball is actually the embarrassing for journeys to do that and there's a different tradition. Well, we used that is really cheap. It's it is I've really noticed that they shot a few people park, some cars on railroad tracks with families in them, and then people kind of stop doing that. I think that guys, like Glenn Greenwald, who lives in Brazil and gets to sort of attack America from a distance. You know until they find him. I would guys like Gamer doing with you know he was the one who helped Edward Snowden release all of his documents and the these, these new players in this whole game, outsiders that don't have to cozy up, don't have to be a part of this. This nepotism that we're seeing with the big ones. I mean any anybody, that's in any sort of a large group foxen

CBS and NBC you're a part of this wacky system part of this system. That's not going to expose these things. It's going to let these people get their message out, because if you don't you're not going to get the big names, if you don't get the big names, you're not going to get the ratings and then those big I'm go to fox those big names. Go to CNN they're, going to go somewhere else and you're going to lose this. This, yeah. That's exactly how it seems to work here. That's why I've notice, yeah and there that it is it an eye, I believe it's getting exposed and I believe it's getting exposed in away today that just wasn't happening twenty years ago twenty years ago. You would just be frustrated and you it s, go often you'd write a book and everybody always another. Look at the crazy book that guy wrote. You know some people would read the book and say it was amazing and other people would just ignore it, and new revelations would take place along the way and whatever happened would be forgotten, and then the politics I would get out of office, and I think George Bush is the last guy to sort of

skate away like that, and you know now he sits around on paints, weird pictures and slowly goes insane. Have you seen the things these changes he slowly going insane mean he he's, painting, pictures and he's locked in this world of essentially in a prison on a ranch. I'm and that's what he is he's constantly circled by secret service agents. He hated all over the world he's ill this indirectly responsible for over one million deaths this one guy there pinning it on him and Dick Cheney and his administration, and this sort of pure events, and this guy feels that and he's just sort of wandering around on his fucking ranch painting himself staring at himself in a bathroom mirror made really really weird stuff, and I think, he's probably going to be the last guy that ever skate the sunset with this. This this knowledge, I think Obama going to be held accountable for a lot more than Bush ever was, and I think who

there's next, is truly fucked, whether it's due that Bush or whether it's whatever you know new Democrat they try to sneak into. I don't know Hillary Clinton, I don't know what they're trying two thousand and sixteen- and we won't no for awhile, because they have to vet out everyone's fucked up vices and skeletons in their closets and in this day and age, which almost just terrible, I think, by the way, 'cause. That's one of the reasons that so many people get put off. Yes from because a lot of complaints here, uh six as well. We just get the same kind of people there. All kind of you know very kind of similar to each other and there's a particular type of person that goes into it and actually a lot of people who are you could make a really good contribution. Don't do exact and that reason they just don't want to live under that kind of spotlight, because Nk yeah, that's just normal human beings and they've got stuff that they had fun right. If you had fun in their life, I mean people that have had fun. You know I mean you can't you. One gay affair, when you're twenty years old, with a guy for a couple of weeks and you're fucked for the rest

that guys out there way and talk shit about you, if you run for president, you know, there's one in time you did a little bit of heroin when you were on the road with a bunch of your buddies. You know what you're in college tried heroin owes fucking college buddies are ready to write a book about you doing heroin. I mean there's it's a weird time when it comes to exposing people pass and this the idea of this perfect person from the cradle to the grave running for is propositive. I don't want that person that person if they've, never made any mistakes. That means they never take any chances. They haven't taken any chances, they haven't lived and I'm not talking about mistakes like victimizing people, horrible things that are completely unconscionable that, you wouldn't do, and I wouldn't do murder and robbery and kidnapping all sorts of terrible things that are just massive ethical, errors that just shouldn't be ever tolerated from a person's character. Just little things like here's, a perfect

there's, a woman who's running for mayor right now in Mississippi and apparently when she was younger she prostitute. This is a big story that you know folks, trying to figure out like what is that, okay, how do we? How do we handle this like? What? What do you do? A person who had made Miss makes when they were younger? What is what is the answer to this, and no one really knows they? Don't really have the answer to that they're trying to figure out when what is happening in that in that is it? Is it playing at it's tower? What's the yes for sure, she's in Mississippi and she revealed it herself she revealed. Is she is a former prostitute and she was a prostitute like I believe it was thirty years ago and she met her husband while he who is john- and he was one of her clients and she married him- and she hasn't been a pro

two cents and now she's running for mayor and it's it's a it's a it's quite fascinating. I think it's interesting and I think in a lot of ways you could see that and think this person is actually really well qualified to be in office, because obviously you know going through those sorts of experiences will give you a sense of sympathy, for you know the tough lives that some people have and this end up putting them in that situation. Makes you better not worse. Well, not only that what she did was totally legal as well. She was in a legal brothel in Nevada and and it was thirty years ago and she hasn't been there since and the idea This person is not how to make errors and that she wouldn't have developed like a lot of empathy and character, and she wouldn't have anything. That's right. Yeah, I'm a more balanced perspective than a person, who's grown,

up in a very privileged household, with very rich, wealthy connected people, and then they got him to an Ivy league school, and then it became a member of skull and Crossbones and Bobl. Instead of well, you have a person who is fourteen and was pregnant with a child and had to take care of it their parents died and she had was forced into a situation where she had to earn a living, and she didn't have a lot of options, and this was one of her options that she chose and how could you judge someone who's a teenager that makes those choices mean, I don't think you can, and I think this per, and that mean good for her- that she stepped up I totally agree, but I think it's great and a and it's kind of interest, some types of early try word avert adversity, a kind of okay for your resume yeah, I came from a poor family and were broken home. Where are Bill Clinton and it's ok? that kind of difficulty is is

but then there's this other category, which is sad just as character for tracks and drugs or whatever, just as character forming potentially but are not acceptable. Yeah, the sex ones, the wackiest whatever, because it's totally legal like say if this woman had you know eczema clients per month. If she is a bunch of guys, you know everybody be like gosh. She was young, choose young shoes getting wacky but fucking a bunch of guys for money is a problem, but it just massage guys, no problem gave them pleasure by rubbing their bodies by rubbing their shoulders and back snow, one have an issue with it, but by doing some into their penis, oh by the way, if it was one of the guys one of the clients running for office, and it okay to be a client. That's fine sure you know something to be proud of, but if that was kind of exposed or whatever that would be about

sure, even ten years ago we had about thirty years ago, if ten years ago, that I went to a prostitute said, listen, I was horny. I didn't have any options. I had a few bucks. I paid some of that uh happiness, people go exactly the result. Lee the hunt, sexist kind of way of thinking about this section it sex should be legal to sell. That's what I think I absolutely one hundred percent believe that prostitution should be legal. I would but my daughters to do it. I wouldn't want my friends to do it. I wouldn't want loved once do it, but I wouldn't want them to work at Wendy's either. I wouldn't them to work on the people that you see on the highway, picking up dirt or picking up a garbage by the side of the road I wouldn't want them to be pouring asphalt in the hot summer. I wouldn't want anybody to work a difficult job. I think emotionally it's going to be incredibly difficult to have sex with someone that you don't want to have sex with, but I don't think should be illegal if it's legal to have sex with people, how the fuck can it be legal or illegal? to pay to have sex with people or have someone pay you to have sex with you. It seems ridiculous.

It seems just as ridiculous, making massage illegal yeah. I don't. I don't know. I honestly haven't thought about it enough. One of the things that I definitely feel strongly about is that if we make that kind of decision, the sex trade, this extra picking trade needs to be one of the ways you think about it, because that is just so evil and discussed completely evil completely discussed. And what decision. You make has to make that better, not worse right and I don't know I haven't- really thought it through. That's a very good point: it's uh! good point. I think they would probably far less demand for sex trafficking for illegal sex trafficking. If prostitution was legal, if adults could make that decision If some woman, you know was in a situation which was like you know, I'm reasonably sexually attractive and I make x amount of money per month doing this. I can make that same amount in a day having sex with people- ok I'll just do. That,

You know if it's a woman's choice to do so, and some women would have no problem with that choice. The real of course, is victimization is a real problem. Is exploiting young people victimization an objectifying women but does not already take place and it part of what objectifying women the that part of this issue is the it's very difficult for some for define sexual partners. So there's like This thing with this Elliot whenever Elliot Rodgers, this crazy kid that shot up everybody in Santa Barbara Santa Barbara, the naughtiest response that I've seen to this, the craziest most infuriating response is by the people that believe that if women weren't so stuck up sky wouldn't have gone on a rampage because he would have been able to have sex with more people, but it would have been able to get people to have sex with them. That's pick up artists and the women these women hating fuck heads there a bunch of guys that they're the

parade under this, this guy's of being for men's rights. You know kinda funny 'cause, I didn't even know there was like there's a thing called an Mra. It's a Mens rights advocate or act, this and it's an insult from feminists. I got called an Mra once and I was The fact is that mean so I had a Google Mra Mens right and I thought it was ridiculous that wow, how could you be a feminist but be making fun of someone who's into men's rights shouldn't? We all have rights and you shouldn't shouldn't, but then I started looking into these men's rights. Guys and I go ok- I see- What'S- they're more ridiculous is not the kind of radical feminine father's nuff like does exist in campaigns. They did make some good points of the house that is a poor, but yes, and and and you're right, the Father on the divorce excess. I agree with that. A hundred percent, but there's they. Go away further than that and they

they go into relationships and they go into the way men are treated versus the way. Women are treated p, who are treated in in bad ways by bad people and in good ways by good people, but if you're a shit head we're not going to like you, and just because you're, a shit head and people don't like you doesn't mean women are assholes, it means you're undesirable, and one of the reasons why you probably undesirable is because you have a terrible attitude about things, and this terrible attitude about things is not going to change. You know it's, not going to change, because women have sex with you. Like your attitude, sucks your not a pleasant person. There's a lot of people have shit personalities and they get involved in this men versus women. But what is that has nothing to do with men versus women? What kind of things do I mean the right? What is that? Well like ST, for? Is there a You know where there's so much nonsense this

I don't even really want to get into it because some of it, some of it, is so fucking stupid and I've been reading these things over the last couple of days and I'm trying to erase him from my memory 'cause. Some of these poorly written articles by these men are so stunningly stupid, like one of them was this. Guy was talking about how he was around this sixty year old man in this twenty five year old woman who is his uh, is incredibly hot wife and that twenty five year old woman was insulting this man, and you know that this is this. This is what the anguish of this guy had to deal with and how horrible it is, and this is what men have to deal with. I was like that. Might be one of the dumbest fucking arguments, I've ever heard in my life. First of all, what is a twenty five year old man in a sixty year, old woman, that was, old, wretched creature that this guy was forced to fuck for money? Like would you be? The man side of the woman side, then uh, which position would you take there? Of course, this woman is going to say shit. He thinks this old man she's not

is to be him she's supposed to be having sex with a twenty five year old man or a thirty five year old man or someone reasonably close to her age, where they would be naturally sexually attracted to each other when you're dealing with is a bizarre situation where someone has sort of a circumvented, the system by acquiring money, yeah, and so I have our finance it's exactly then, by acquiring money, this guy's figure out a way to get some twenty year old, hottie to Merriam, and yet she doesn't like it. So she complains- and I'm I'm reading this- and I'm like this guy who looks fuck. Is this guy writing this article talking to who are his friends How is that an argument? Yeah that is not yet but I I don't even want to pull the article up. I don't want to reference it. I don't want it to turn, but it's just what you're dealing with with these men is a bunch of nitpicky shitheads, with terrible personalities that are complaining about men getting a bad rap in this world. If you do well in this life, you have an amazing chance, as a man of

being sexually successful, having a great life of not being persecuted, of, not being raped, of not being beat up. By your spouse mean the idea that men don't have the better end of the deal is unbelievably ridiculous. When you look at this Donald Sterling Guy, this fucking shit head that owns the clippers he's eight. Two The girlfriend was in her twenties. An this possibility only exist for men. It doesn't exist for women there's very few. Eighty two year old women who have attract twenty year old boyfriends. It just doesn't exist this very, Very few. You want to watch watch what Madonna does few years down the line. Do you know how but what kind of a monster like lot of young men would feel like Madonna was, if Madonna was trying to fuck them. They really like this repulsive to men.

Uh an idea of a powerful, attractive man who's in his 50s dating a twenty year? Old woman is not alien at all, but the idea of a pie- powerful woman in what is Madonna or 60s. How old is she? I think she's 50s, but I think that's, what's really to be honest, cool about what she's doing, which is like she's, just really can't the challenging those kind of sterrett issue. Well, I think so by the way she I don't know. I think that she certainly, I think, she's got pretty intelligent point of view on some of these, these agenda issues because she really I think the Father people uncomfortable, is kind of making the point that we were agreeing about, which is that this is not how it's supposed to be well she's. She doesn't even consider yourself a feminist. She considers herself a humanist, which I agree with wholeheartedly and this idea of men's rights. What's the offensive about it is that you,

so they're concentrating entirely on the ideas and the problems that men face. When I, I think the only ideas and promises problems that men face, the only ones are child custody and getting robbed in divorces other than that the fuck up. I really do believe. I think those are the only two issues other than Please shut the fuck up 'cause when I hear about a guy at planning that a twenty year old wife is is mean to a sixty year old, rich man, oh poor, baby, What you do go out and get more twenty year old wives, ok, you're, fucking, rich as shit in your old, were going to live forever. Dummy you'll get some institutes could do it be nice to them, give them cars. You know what do with Donald Sterling said. He got that girl like five rolls, royces and Bentleys and Ferraris and shit, and it still didn't work out that you know why didn't workout. She didn't want to fuck him. They don't want to fuck, eighty okay. That just the law of the land. That's the way life works. This is the natural balance of nature.

And you know, you've figured out a way to inject info once in power and money and sort of perverse. This whole system and when you come plane about this perversion, not working out in your favor, and this is why we need men's rights, Go oh fucking! Christ! You! Why the bitch. Is you guys aren't men, because it's easy to leeward side, and I think it's just unbelievable- that they're even Turner, their babies, their babies, say that's the babies and they're not recognizing the issues that women do have to deal with women to deal with worrying about groups of men, women have to do with worrying about if I into a parking lot. Okay and it's at night- and I see a woman in that parking lot- I'm not worried about that woman. If I was a woman when I walked into a parking lot and I walked in my car- and I see a man and that man is looking me in the eye, I have to wonder what kind of a man that is. I have to think about that. I have to but as a man

but as a woman, you really have to think about that. It's very rare that a man gets robbed by a woman in a parking lot. Of course it can happen. Specially the woman is a weapon of if you're in Russia, she might rape you. You know this is some stories about russian women. You know there's some story about. She helps a man captive and forced FED him. Viagra and fuck them for thirty days, and that's Russians. They're crazy in russian chick might actually do that to you. But for the most part it's a non issue or statistically speaking to a very, very, very small percentage of the population, has to worry about this for women. The amount of women that get sexually assaulted. The amount of women, especially are in college, that's crazy and college. You know something like more than one out of ten women get sexually assaulted in college. I don't know the exact numbers are red varying reports, but even ten percent is talking to really big problem. I agree it's a big problem. If you because men are aggressive, were aggressive were filled with testosterone and we need to come, it's a real

problem, everyday or balls, are building up more more sperm and, if you're a shit head and if you were raised in properly- and you don't have respect for women or the opposite sex or anyone in general other than your selfish self. Yes have we could we have problems? We have problems with that. So yeah, we need accountability as men, but it would also help if there was places where people could relieve themselves and also help. If there was a handjob place on every corner, I mean God every Kuna. Why not is a massage place in every corner that you drive down the street in LA? If you drive go to Ventura Blvd drive down the street if your back, is bothering you, you can find a massage place. One a mile you'll see a neon light. Thai massage swedish massage this massage you can go in and get your neck rubbed. What can you get your balls rubbed? Why can't you? Why? Not, because we're crazy, because we he's weird ideas about sex. We have these. We ideas about what is evil and it's based on that european values of this country was founded on Witcher, wanted by religious nuts, who

we're so cookie that they've gotten boats too the persecution and travel across a fucking ocean mean. Does the echo, as of this ignorance is still propelling is today now. I think that I don't. I think that with all that stuff to think I've got a lot of sympathy for it, but I just keep coming back to this thing about what is the? If you know what is it? Are you going to set up a situation where it's not really a choice that there some kind of economic or other power that means that oh pressure? That means that even though you kind of treat it like a marketplace where everyone's freely entering into it is not really going to be the case. I think that's the question I think you're totally right, I don't know and then I'm not suggesting by the way that prostitution is going to stop rape. You what what I'm suggesting is that there are real issues with with human sexuality and there's a real issues with making things illegal, that shouldn't be illegal, yeah, whether it's drug use or whether,

where is sexuality, I think there's real issues in suppression and I think, when you suppress people from doing things here, is suppressing them from using marijuana suppressing them from drinking. Pressing them from wearing certain clothes suppressing women from driving when you suppress human beings from things that are illogical, and I find it illogical that sex It is illegal to sell and not saying I want to go to prostitutes. I don't I don't, but I think they should be legal. I really do I think it's nonsense. I think we live in this weird world, where, if some thing is legal to do for free how? is it possible that it's ily will do for money, it doesn't make any sense. I see your point of view and I agree with it wholeheartedly that you do have to worry about people being so rolled into this, that you have to worry about them. Being somehow are another compromised by this so overwhelming need, for you know the financial revenue that can be generated from sex and that people could be explode.

Did in there could be a real issue with the objectification of women. It could change the cultural attitudes about things, but if you the countries where it is legal there, prostitution- I was just going to say- I think in HOLLAND, right yeah yeah. They find lower instances of aids lower instances of like Jim Jeff. This is a buddy of mine who is a stand up. Comedian from Australia in Australia, brothels are legal and he talks about divorce rates are way lower in places where brothels are legal because men don't need to cheat on their wives, like some men just give up, they can't they can't get sex for their wife and they just like I'm fucking outta here, and they get divorced Go to this huge stressful situation in Australia. Just go to a brothel. You know. Jim was joking around about how his his mom and his dad were. Fighting and his mom was like yeah and he goes to the brothel every night, and I don't know if you know that for every Wednesday night- and he goes not every thank that was

that was the punchline. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. It's whether or not people being exploited. That becomes the problem, but that becomes a problem with everything I mean, if people being exploited into labor, if chill under being forced to work in factories at young ages, which they are in other countries and tip the other countries that provide us with these these goods that we so want. The phones laptops. All these different mean how many chilled and every year scraping minerals out of the mountains that they need to use make electronics is a lot of 'em, and this is exploitation. This is exploitation that we benefit from, and I think that we have address all forms of that, but we also to address, Dick ulous laws that don't make any sense and anytime try to control people anytime. Do you try to suppress people ability to express themselves in anyway? If you don't like it, you know

Here it's walking topless down the street, you can do if your man, you can't do it if you're a woman, that's what they are. You're dealing with in New York City now in New York City you're allowed to be topless as a woman, the there's some woman who calls herself to fucking naked cowgirl and she's, getting sued by the naked cowboy cousin naked cowboys, a guy who he wears underwear and he plays guitar with a cowboy hat on and he's like this sort of first attraction in New York. The women are allowed to be topless now as well in a lot of places because, like the idea is, why is a man allowed to have no shirt on, but a woman has? How is because you're saying that breasts are much more sexual than when they're on a woman and that they need to be they need to be covered? That's develops a sort of inequality in the law that a woman is You know women is a oppressed or a woman is subject to laws that a man is not, and that seems to be very difficult to pass, So you know you deal with some situation where women are allowed to be topless and they should be.

How many guys get arrested for being Gigolos is at zero. I mean was the last time I got arrested for fucking, a woman because she paid him to. Has it ever even happened. Women get arrested for prostitution, all the God. Damn time you know, but uh totally agree with that. I mean that is the rather than the people using them yeah it's. It's totally agree with that. I think when this you're right there are so many kind of weird things about and how that kind of plays but when you think about sort of social issues and stuff like that- and I think one of the biggest things that's going on is the way that kind of that kind of sorts sexualization of of like public space and the the kind of world around us is like really influencing more more children. I think that the kind of is getting younger and younger that kids are being exposed to kind of section my stuff, that is a real problem. ' 'cause, it's changing their expectation of what taxes and there's

so studies now showing how the you know like kids, sexual behavior is really differ: you know boys sort of viewing porn, violent porn it much earlier age. Thinking that that's how you behave, meeting women really badly women think of themselves as sexual objects. More, I think, is a lot of kind of quite deep Roy things that are coming out and we'll see in the years ahead from the that is just like sexual images and content is just becoming much more widely available for younger kids. That's a really good point B so prevalent, and it's so uniquely new the abyss to download porn on a cell phone. So essentially, if your child is twelve and they have an Iphone, you send them off to school there watching people fuck yeah, I'm going there gonna, that's right, there's no way you're going to stop them. If that phone has internet data, if it has internet access, those kids going to look at images if they have somehow another some some access to an Ipad or a laptop or something it's connected to Wi Fi, if it's not but talk through some sort of a complicated filter that they probably know how to dismantle bed. You do

they're, going to see sex they're, going to see sex in a way that we never saw sex- and I have this joking, my act, that is it story about when I was eleven years old me and a couple of my friends found a magazine in the woods that was a foot fetish magazine and we, took us like a few minutes to realize what was going on we're looking at this magazine 'cause, it was really confusing. You thought it was like a cep Gayatri today or no no, we thought it was a porn magazine for sure. Obviously that was the intent that yeah Well, we were in the woods- and I don't know if you've ever found porn, apparently never found the woods fetish.

Do you ever find him a hustler or damn house in the woods, in the woods right when the puck in the early upwards, where we were, but it's always like some poor bastard who's hiding his urges. It's a rite of passage. You know when we're going. I think that you know it's very important. Everyone had that experience, international yeah. For me, it was in Florida and for you was in England. Right is amazing right at the foot thing that is unexpected. So the point was that the you found these this bag that had these magazines in it and we're going through this one magazine, and it took us like me any pages in to my my friend goes dude this shit well just Dixon feet that's it. He said we were to this day. I laughed thinking about my friend, saying that and that we were stunned and confused. Well, we were just looking at a magazine and we were eleven. You know today, kids get to watch actual sex and apparently the sexual act.

If, if children is changing, like someone did a study recently that showed this massive increase in anal sex yeah amongst children under eighteen years of age yeah, it's really of the I. I think it's a really big deal I really too, and and it's and it's the sexual activities changing its the kind of relationship between men. Boys and girls. You know that's changing in the cold kind of we talk about early in terms of the you know: women's rights, men's rights, and I think that that it, you know their expectations of how to behave yeah, how to treat women and women's own sense. We young women their own sense of themselves as being about that sexual sexual persona. I think that's all really. Can you know it's actually setting back some of the pro, has been made in terms of women, music quality, women's equality, I agree, but I think hopefully at least because I'm I'm now eternal opt.

I think it's temporary and I think, but ultimately it's all going to even out, because I think that people are doing is they're. Looking at these things like if women are engaging in sexual activities, at a much earlier age, they're looking at it like this is something that they need to do to become more attractive to men. Because this is what they've seen they've seen this I thought on all of this is that we're going to reach a point within our lifetimes, probably within the next few decades, where we're going to be able to reach others minds. I think I think it's inevitable. You know over your house actually was the first time I ever tried Google glass and we put This thing on and scanning it- and you know, and googling things and looking at navigation screens in front of my eye, thinking man, it is going to get really fucking weird soon I th we're going to be able to read each other's minds. I think this whole dance that

do. Do you like me, do I, like you, you know who I'm gonna play hard to get I'm going to fucking. Do this I'm going to be the girl that takes it in the ass and all the boys going to like Maine. All that nonsense. I think it's it's going to become far more complex than human fractions, because I'm going to become far more complex, 'cause our concept of secrets going to go out the window, that's really interesting! Actually, I don't think it's going to exist anymore. I thank them. If you look at the trend, what is the trend? The trend is that information is easier to access now than ever before, and it becomes easier to access an easier to access to the point where you can ask your phone questions with your voice. You press a button. You know who is Steve Hilton at Steve. Hilton is a mobile and it gives you the information, but that's just one step, and it's not going to stop there- it's not halting it's exponentially increasing. So what is the trend? The trend is dissolving boundaries between people and information. That information includes information. In your own mind

information includes, there's going to be a much more affective interface, that looking at a screen and asking a screen a question: the interfaces, going to be somehow another a neural implant, thing that you inject in someone's body like nanobots, there's going be some weird sort of an interface and when that happens, they're going to come up with a better when a year later, maybe a more invasive one more and then we're going to have to come to some sort of an agreement where we're going to say, hey, listen in or therefore human to human race to established and enlightened perspective, we're all going to have to look into each others. Heads and we're going to have to be able to read each others minds and find out how we think and feel, and there will be no more mystery in this world. There be no more romance novels. They'll be no more would be unnecessary, is not maybe any romance is gone. You be this weird Hivemind thing going on and it's going to happen within one hundred years in this I think that's incredibly interesting it in the way that will change so many things. If, if people just you know if that,

so far. Some people can do just know what the other person thinking about that and think about what it used to be like before language established people used to grant in point and kind of try to figure out what the other person wanted anymore. Essentially monkey people. What did we do? We I figured something out. We got to this point and now you compare your life today. To that point, I I was in a conversation with a friend, and we have another friend that is like he's. Coming a prepper. You know like guys, fucking setting up his house for solar water and collecting rainwater or solar solar power and connecting collecting rainwater and growing design. Fruits and vegetables, and doing so in this fear that society was going to collapse and my friend Jimmy was like it's

He collapses, you don't wanna live man, but you don't want to be that one God. It's got all the food in your. You know, standing on your porch for the rifle and you're all taking turns waiting for the zombies to come over. The hill you know is sounding the horn single alerting. The people that the barbarians of arrived- you don't want to do that, and you don't want to go back to those days. You just don't, and I think that we we I want to go back to the days of no language and we're not going to going to want to go back to the days of of secrets when looking at one hundred and one the no secret thing happens and people just this kind of understanding of what it is to be a human being. You know nice rate, it's one of our songs yeah. It reminds me that there's this, what's going on at Stanford, they have a virtual reality lab and their low how virtual reality could change the way people think about of the people about other issues. You know there's one experiment they're doing where we got problem trying to get it right where they, I think they put you as like

for a situation you think you're in a forest and then and then they measure or some nature, some exam nature, and then they see how they really give you. Deep experience of that through virtual reality. And then they look at your behavior in the next week. After that, to see, if you're more conscious of that you recycle more, you change your behavior because of this. This complete The false experience. You've had to give you this virtual reality experience and that's what we're searching in all sorts of other ways, and I think it's just showing that it does, and you actually most behavior by giving them this sense of another world yeah and that's again, just in its infancy. You know the virtual reality. Stuff is just getting going and um and I think it's interesting all these things, how they will affect so many aspects of how we relate to each other and think about these issues, that the and just so kind of superficially dealt with

it's going to get really squirrelly when that artificial reality is indistinguishable from the reality that we're experiencing right now, 'cause, that's coming to you know that the whole simulation theory is is is based upon now this side that one day we're going to get to a point where you can't tell whether or we live in a computer or we live in the material carbon based flesh world an if that's the case. How do we know that we haven't already gotten to that point? How do we know that we're not in a computer right now and we're thinking that we experiencing this reality? But it's not. It's not really happening, we're just a part of a program and that it's so good that you just you can You think you really are Steve Hilton you're, not Steve. Let me see, you know the truth, child I was thought it's all set out. There Is that when this kind of gets to a point where I is kind of. I can't handle anymore. My brain cannot literally cope with th

keeps on this server. Remember friend, of mine repeatedly trying to explain to me, like Quantum physics and crew some things and I just literally come don't understand it. Are quantum stuff is hard really hard. I have a I had this notion of alternate realities and things going on at the same time, and I just can't get my head around it. It's almost impossible to do it. It's really like when we start getting into quantum stuff, I don't anything they understand it. I mean they understand it in terms of these theoretical concepts, but it's so abstract in a lot of ways when you deal and things like when they start talking about subatomic particles, and they we're talking about the things that they actually do. Know like the things that you actually can measure. You can observe yeah, like particles, super position, meaning there in movement and still at the same time when they're talking about is blinking in and out of existence that go away and they don't know where they went, and then they come back with

just that alone. The measurable stuff is so crazy that the lowest point now the but the smallest measurable point of reality, which is this, these quantum id the world's made of magic things appear and disappear. Things are still on there moving at the same time there here and there there there in two different places at the same time, and they can take particles and they can move them across the world and when they interact with each other, they interact with each other faster than you can count faster and you can measure they interact with each other like instantaneously fat faster than the the any kind of communication that we could have between these particles, given amount of distances in between them. The speed of light at the speed of sound they're instantaneously, interacting with each other. Now now, they're figuring out a way how to send particles through time, there figuring out ways to send particles through time to actually time

travel with particles and so with all the stuff that they're doing right now is just one step on it's. Never ending quest for technological innovation is never ending quest where p we're trying to satisfy their curiosity they're not going to stop there. Never stop, but we don't get hit by an asteroid. If we don't get, I think that's right you know, and you get all these good things coming from that yeah along the way I mean, I don't understand it, but eventually it leads to things that we all can use and and deal with and a lot of those things are really good. I don't think that one thing I would say about all this stuff is that only speaking, we are not critical enough of the technological advances. I think that a lot of them, obviously improvements. You know, if you think about just technology going back many years. You know the way that I don't know

labor saving devices in the home completely sort of freed women from the drudgery in the horrific kind of washing machine all that stuff. That was just kind of such a horrible experience and that's all phantasm sort of simple example of technology being really, informational in a positive way, and I think generally probably true of technology. It's usually an improvement, but I do think that we have this kind of attitude of assuming is good and and not really questioning it. Do we really want that? I think that Batman enough the movie, yet we do that's great fantastic, bring it on, but I don't think we still enough to ask the question and I think the scientists in the people doing this stuff there really think about that. They want to do it because they can, and it says that leaves you said it's this curiosity like let's, let's just go further, because that's a human instincts like Oppenheimer Nuclear Bomb, I mean. Should that really have been done? Well, the

the the argument, the intelligent argument, as if they didn't do it, the would have done it. So, yes, it's important at the allied forces developed at first, but I think that that's the the job of I think, there's all sorts of roles that are played in a society and there's. The innovator and there's the scientist? There's the people that are constantly pushing the boundaries of technology, and then there is the social engineers who step back and go ok, let's look at the repercussions of this and how do we mitigate the negative aspect, But how do we figure out how to integrate ideas into society and use them to enhance society and what is being done to sort of manage that and what is being done to two minimize the negative impact yeah? That is a good way pudding it that different functions and you need those here, just a constant there's. No one thing: that's awesome, there's things that are awesome and then there's repercussions that are like yeah, but then there's this well, there's that

but then there's this this part of it that we're not really comfortable with and there's this sort of dance that we do as we build society in a society continues to grow and expand, and our ability to do things changes are a bill need to access information, our ability to accomplish goals. Our ability to the transmit ideas is so much quicker and faster and there's these repercussions to that that we're before this day and age, we're really unexpected, forward, because they weren't available. So don't really know the long term repercussions of children being able to access porn because they really didn't have it. Yes, it's new. We never. We don't know what that needs to exactly weird world. It's a weird world he felt strange times is a good good summary. That's why you two claw resisted. I know- and this is definitely going back in the day, but the way I creatures like find a way I need, and then I can get hold of me, yeah, that's it! That's

and then you could shut it off. Occasionally just give it to very few people. You have to have a burner phone, You have to have a phone, the gift to people that could possibly be annoying so that any even time fell into the ocean would be like whatever with that fucking You know and then have a phone that you only give to your family and your close friends, yeah, but the things is that really puts me off. I just can't there's something about my kind of useless sort of fat. Stampy thing I just hope: hopeless with touch screens and only can get is touchscreen somewhere in Hawaii three, I pod at your computer and up the screen you're, so frustrated, Steve got you know. I have a regular ipod with the click wheel, the wheel, I like that yeah. Well, I like this store except yeah, the new one I like that, but the the new ones the Ipod touches. Yes, I don't, I don't find them is either not as easy to use and what the jam I find them to be frustrating, but you,

You got a hold of one of those because you could get your regular. I pie you got so many through the I did the mark is that reminds me of my techno rage every single day we are not a reasonable guy, which is so crazy because you're normally the last person I'd, expect to get violent and thoroughly something you're crazy, but it was an I pod that did to you. I know who is weird, but I do with technology as people who know me and work with me will testify. You very Unabomber ask in that way. I'll go. Okay, you better watch it, there's a great documentary on the Unabomber and how he became, who he is. I don't want to get into it. 'cause I've talked about on the show before, but it's called the net It's uh. I think it's german. I forget what country, but it's available with subtitles but basically he was a part of the LSD studies at Harvard they cooked his brain. TED, Kaczynski, TED, kids, yeah yeah

and he was turned in by his own brother, his own breath. Recognize the writing in the manifesto, and he realized that his brother had gone and saying is like. I think this is probably my brother. That's doing this because I wasn't here then, but that was it, so I don't have a sense of it being observed So they know what happened, but I don't get sense of what a big deal it was. It was scared for a lot of pain in America when that happened was scary for a lot of people also, because of who is attacking that he was attacking people that were technological innovators and attacking people that were involved in the distribution of technology, and he believed that, in a lot of ways correctly believed that there was something going on right now where people were creating technology in this technology would eventually do bad things, things to the human race into the biological existing that we currently exist in. You know this sort of like established way of being in living, that we consider being you know, inherent to being a human being, and he felt like

these people were the enemies of humanity because they were fostering technology increases. I didn't really know that that was was behind yeah. He just wait. He went too far ahead. He got wacky instead of living in the moment in dealing with the moment. He just saw this this attack by the Bio, logical humans or on the biological humans by technology, which essentially, I kind of see his point in a way. I don't see it as far as like attacking people that are creating technology, but if you really extrapolate where we are right now and where we're going, this symbiotic relationship that we have with technology, where people are afraid to leave their phones behind the phones will eventually become Google glass. Google glass would become an implant. An implant will become well, you know Steve they've got good news and bad news. The good news is, you have a year to live okay, the bad news. Is you have cancer good news? Is we have an artificial body that we

I have created that we're going to put your body into the bad news. Is it last forever, so we're going to take or is it the Good NEWS? You know What is a new world that we're living in where we're going to have weird choices never existed before? a lot of the people that are involved in Google they hired Kurz while Ray Kurzweil, who is the proponent of number one proponent, this sort of in dental moment where we become one with computers will become one either with some sort of computer interface or we download our consciousness into an artificial body, or we figure out a way to exist in some sort of a virtual reality that is eternal and there's

a lot of people feel like that's. Where things are going to go. Yeah leave us a science fiction is really not fix a no, it's definitely happening yeah. I know the the one I don't talk to to friend of mine about this quite a bit, which is, if you think about interested that they were the Unabomber. That's an extreme example, and I wasn't I didn't realize that it was so if just on technology, but they there, isn't really a people like it. Generally speaking, there isn't really a movement that sort of and technology movement that not only not that I'm aware of, if you think back to you know, come only when it was born. You have this sort of industrial revolution and the Luddites smashing up machines that were taking job. A few people. Have you ready kind of damaging society this, and that was it? It's going to quite a big movement. Yeah, okay, didn't get anywhere in, and you know the history sort of made them irrelevant, but there was a move with a name in an organization that did

What is they? What was there? I think this specifically, it was the New equipment like the weaving during the industrial Revolution in England. The machines that were now being used to do the work that had been done by people and they they objected to that and the incredible and they would literally fee basically smash up the machines. That was, I think, one of the things they did and which all those people with a better history that can give you a better picture. That was was called the luddites I think named after the person that that set them out. Someone called blood. I think- and I don't know how big it was, but it was big enough that it's something we still know about, and it's part of the history of that of that era, and there's nothing like that. Now, it's not not to my knowledge, where you don't have people going out and smashing up cell phone towers now make a point about technology, wife,

it's. What we're saying I don't like it. You know it's kind of helps them in their lives and they like for the most part. Yeah, I mean there's. A lot of benefits is a lot of benefits to technology, but I it's what we were talking about earlier, that maybe back then they They didn't have enough information to draw upon and they saw it as being this direct threat to their livelihood. I think that was a big part of it and I think to date, we're we're we're sort of forced into this realization that it's neither good nor bad, but rather something that needs to be managed and there's good aspects to it and then there's negative aspects to it. An ultimately you have to figure out what outweighs what and how to lean it towards the positive how to manage it in a way that it goes towards positive. I think that's the case, we're talking about with children watching television. You know, I know, there's the Waldorf school. My oldest daughter was in the Waldorf school system for awhile, and it's a lot

walking into that, like they didn't believe in any technology, then believe in any video games, but have been proven that video games can enhance. Cognitive function The neural pathways that are created by stimulating video games can actually they mimic games like chess. You know like problem. Solving games games is stimulate the imagination and creativity like they exist video games can be used in that same function. This idea that all video games are bad and then I found out that the guy who founded this whole Waldorf system was a channeler he was a channel are like. I am getting a voice. There's a spirit is talking to me like. Oh, you fuckhead guide to handle that. So I'm very our oldest son- and you know you know, he's in name system yeah. That system is created by kooks. Unfortunately, wonderful system in a lot of ways to school that my kid was at was great, but the

reality is that it's founded by fuckheads, you know founded by Christ, people I'm definitely going to look into that, and in Chandler will talk I'll. Tell you the full deal when we get off the air. The conversation that I had with these fucking people, where what what channel are you know, there's a lot of evidence that there is chandlers? No there's not actually there's none zero evidence that anybody's ever been fucking channel. You know I have a friend who he loves believe in stupid and he just he's not a good critical thinker he's a great guy, but is not a good critical thinkers. The first when it comes to me with a go story, you know once any geek came to me with this psychic thing. I knew all about my grandmother. Man, guy was real guys legit I go. Do you know about your grandmother? it goes. Yeah I go. So the guy told you some shit. You already knew how to fucking use. Is that what do you

talking to some guy? Was he playing games? He played a trivia game plan, a trivia game about things. Are you know about your own family? This is ridiculous, like I have what kind have a question. Did he ask you like leading questions that you answered in some way that he was able to concoct a story of your life, and people want to find that these things are They want to find that someone is, but there's almost no evidence whatsoever that anybody has a functional psychic virgin method that is, reproducible, and it doesn't mean that I don't believe in the potential for psychic psychic powers 'cause, I think, there's some weird connection with human beings. It's probably emerging much though, like a lot of our senses emerge, I think there's weird sense. Is that our emerge? with human beings like, for instance, they statistically shown in a way that's measurable, that people can tell when people are looking at the back of their head yeah. You could tell them someone's. Looking at when someone's looking behind you act, you, the people, could send

in a way. That is, more measurable than chance, so there's, probably something there, there's, probably something when you think about someone, and they call you that happen, I've thought about people also negative email, then out of the blue, I haven't talked to them a years and also I'd be a person. I was that in my mind, like wow. When that guys up to a boom, we get an email from hey man what's up like wow. What is that? Is that a weird sort of a distant connection that will eventually one day be much more strong. I don't know I don't know, but I know that fuck and channel are starting school that tells you not to use cell phones and don't watch tv that guys a silly which this is ridiculous. This is make any sense. You know, I think I think you're right that anything, that is really extreme? Is just it's just not going to be our, I think, and and date that, and so we definitely don't and

the extreme version yeah. Of course, they recommend that's a question of balance right with all things. Even with reading you can't read all day everyday go outside for a walk code, ride a bike. Oh do something get out! You gotta get out. You gotta move you gotta, and I think that that's the case with all human experiences I mean, if you're a person who's. There was a thing recently that the the thing that he did about sex and about porn and that people who watch porn they. Actually have less brain matter, they have less matter in the brain. People that are obsessed with porn you know when you think about it, it's probably because they, whatever they're doing whatever for the brain there stimulating. There constantly focused on that and all the other shit about wonder

about existential questions in the the lives of the purpose of man. The the the idea of infinity always weird questions and normally bounce around side, a person's brain they're completely nonexistent. Could you just trying to find yeah person a jerk off till you just but you, but that guy the other week that you came out within the government was he was in the environmental protection agency? I think, and he was watching the is he lost his job he's watching porn like I thought, six hours a dales in the office in the government office, and you forgot what is going on that that's even possible Well, people are listen to this podcast in their office, guaranteed they shouldn't be. There should be working with six hours of this watching porn. Maybe they should be. That's like you know, yeah, it's ridiculous, but there, the EPA Epa, employee, downloaded seven thousand files of porn at work and watched him,

two hundred and twenty six hours a day. Well, I don't think that guy was doing good job protecting the environment over that fucking freak. I'm not surprised if give people the freedom to move around like that. That's what they wind up doing. People are nuts man, you give people the freedom to just do whatever the fuck they want You know a lot of times. They do things that just aren't smart. Yes, that's just where human beings are uspeh only give them it's like we're talking about. As far as professors or police officers, or anybody in some sort of an ultimate position where they don't enough supervision, they don't have enough just they have to much influence over others, and they do have enough oversight. You wind up being this fucking guy supposed to be paying attention to our drinking water and just beating off, although you know, and then there's also a job thing too, it's like how many, how many jobs you really should

or be for the Environmental Protection Protection Agency, and how many people do they really need to do those jobs. This guy can but that's exactly what is he doing there? Well, we know he's doing that? What's the if this calculus yes, we do if this guy can work in there EPA and he could still like hold down that job and he's beaten up six hours a day, and this was for years apparently wasn't like just. He went nuts and just one week for whatever reason for it, it was like for years, I wonder how many people are listening in this podcast right now. They're, like fuck, that's me, I wanna get busted create office in like especially if your computer is facing, like you and you're looking at the door, so you get a clean shot at anybody walking in, for men, men are freaks, you give a guy the opportunity to just beat off in his office a lot of times dudes

and take it up. You know environmental Protection Agency, Jesus Christ, what a weird where we live and that's an issue, you, and it's like. It was back in the day where you know The guy who is a assigned to work for the city water department in the 1930s they found seven thousand pornography books in his office like Frank with fuck. Are you doing man like I'm getting crazy with all his reading? I think, in a lot of ways what we're dealing with when it comes to pornography when it comes to the internet when it when it comes to just. Technology itself, is weird room with these things that have influence over people in a way that were not designed to process now, not designed to process movies. Ajayan, screen, were explosions and spaceships, and all this stuff, that's not real, but we're seeing it in a way. It's much more impactful than real life were see

right right in front of us. You know, and I think that that that fucks with peoples heads you know, I think that pornography. The ability to add anytime, you want just Go online and watch people have sex like that. You know that you could do that. It's at your little finger tips, especially if you're like sexually starved. You know if you like, you really want sex and you can't get it and you know how I can watch it right now, I'm going to watch sex, real, quick, oh Morton, Circs, that's a weird thing with human beings: it's a weird thing that we've sort of painted cells into this corner. We have all this technology as we're talking about before it's like we have access to it and it's all it's about managing. It really The second thing is also, you know like reminders that we're just animals really because you've got. I remember, you know, really struck kids log your program, so you watch these nature programs and basically there about sex.

Eating. That's what happens. That's what happens in nature. That's what all this that's the majority of! the scenes that you see yeah, that is major, and so we just that, since I'm Well, we certainly are in. That makes the same. It's it's it's! No! It's not! I don't think we should be surprised that it's such a dominant part of a flaw. No, no, we definitely shouldn't be surprised, but we're also much more complex than the average animal. That's where things get the weird world where things get really weird. Is that, yes, we are animals, but we are also animals with computers were also animals that are where the were animal. So we have to think about. Our actions were self aware were aware of the influence that others have on us and we're kind expanding that influence. You know so not just animals, were it were animals with computers that may become part of machines. That's the thing.

Freaks me out the most of the symbiotic connection, the human beings have the technology and the potential for developing artificial technology on our artificial life. I think that we we give birth. To that I mean Marshall Mcluhan once said that human beings are the sex organs of the machine world. I always wonder if we're not some strange caterpillar that becomes a butterfly that has no idea what the fuck it's doing or making some sort of a technological, cocoon thinking that we're just uh, I'm doing my thing running around and looking at porn. No, you know you're a part of this gigantic machine, it's processing and push sing for the innovation of technology and innovation. Technology will eventually give birth to a life form we're constantly working on trying to map out the human mind, duplicate the functions of the human mind in some sort of a synthetic process and we're not anywhere close right now, but the way technology etc exactly yeah. It's

feels unlikely that that's not going to happen yeah, I have this I read this article by this really grumpy fuck, who is an interesting guy, is a smart guy, but he's also just to probably a lonely shit head and he was mocked Ray Kurzweil. How Ray Kerswell knows nothing about the human mind and he was talking about the complicated function to human brought, mind and the way the human mind, processes proteins and that the barely understood, but what I read from this and when I got out of this is like. I don't think this guy understands the biological functions are not going to matter if they b. If these bylaw logical functions can be completely irrelevant, because they've get out some sort of an artificial way to duplicate all of the exact same synapse firing. Mechanisms like without the biological functions of the processing of proteins, the interacting with the hormones and human neurotransmitters. All that stuff. Is great, if you're using a body, but

this guy was so hung up on the fact that Kurz whiles wrong, because we don't understand how the human body works. Well. No now is not because he's just talking about bodies, yeah bodies are super complicated. We haven't totally figured it out yet, but we might not have to We can figure out a way to do all the things that the body does, but do it with a computer or do with technique. Did you do with some sort of quantum computer, some sort of quant the computer that's contained in an artificial body that can completely replicate the functions of consciousness, the functions of emotions, of interaction of curiosity of Cree, activity? If you can pull up an artificial computer. That's creative! You!

it doesn't matter with looting, Ising hormones and all the that you're about you're. Just because you're showing your intelligence, you trying to show people how smart you are the I criticizing unknown genius because you're known genius, I mean that's essentially what you're doing yeah and it seems to just superficial. I know nothing about it, but the the the the body parts of it feels like they. They you know that doesn't kind of progress right there. They sort of Bio, mechanics and robotics, and so that is easy compared to the brain, yeah yeah, I agree it is the what they do about the mind they do know. The about the body is comparatively rudimentary when you think about what we know about a clock. We know everything about o'clock clock. You know you buy a switch swiss watch ' There's a man out there. That knows every single function of that watch knows how it interacts knows exactly. What's going on tick, tock, tick, tock! We don't know that about the body, yet you're right, you're, correct, but we're not going to have to we're not going to have to 'cause, I'm going to come out with some shit. That's way better than body going.

Now with some shit. That's way stronger than a mind and it's going to artificial and it's going to hello and you going to go off, shit exactly are you guys living like this? Like? Oh, we don't know just kind of going on momentum, just how we do it I'd I think this is the best way to go about this. I don't think so either I have a better idea, oh great, and then this something is going to take over and then we're going to have real problems and he's going to really reform our campaign. Finance laws to have a better sister gonna have any frozen in the region. His mind is not going to be any voting, we're going to know what's important and what's exactly there this guy wants to have brought this up before. But I it's important note. There was a guy that we talked about in the park. Who had been bitten by a shark in the shark it taken his arm and taking his leg and he had this carbon arm and he was moving his fingers around here. Then he was standing there talking with this Big arm is fake leg about how great it is. A technology is provided him with a way to still be moved,

mobile and functional, even though he had been attacked by shark, and I was sitting there and I was thinking wow. This is fascinating. This guys, like kind of a cyborg. What we see is a man with an artificial arm and the story was about how well they had cream this arm to the point where this guy was living a totally normal life and you know, was functional and mobile and can take care of himself, even though his arm had been bitten off by a monster, and I thought about what, if it was both legs, ok and they figured out artificial legs. Who would say no to that? Nobody given official legs? Now you can move around. Ok if it was his whole body. I would say: listen we're going to take your head going to take it on a robot body, but you're still going to be you. Oh ok, alright I'll, take it! Okay! Ok, we're sticking your head on a robot body, but listen we got a problem, the robot. It is rejecting your brain, but we've artificial brain that works. Just like your brain, going to download your consciousness to this artificial brain. You won't even know the difference. Ok! Well, then, who are you and what are you? What are

are you? Are you a person still if you uh, are your thoughts and your personality in your memories, downloaded into some creation, some sort of a new thing that they've done that mimics all all the functions of the human mind without any the biological limitations. What are you yeah? I member that is so funny you talking about that because there, five years ago, when I was doing my interviews to go to Oxford University- and I had an interview with a philosophy professor- and he gave me this sin- are which I now know is a famous philosophical thing, is called the experience machine, and this is this constant. Very much like what you're talking about which is like if we could put you in a machine gave you all the experiences of a fantastic life, but it the machine doing it. Would you choose to do it and remember saying no that I wouldn't want to do that because I'd feel I'd want to have really expect done it myself and if you just in a machine, that's not the same thing are, but what, if the machine made,

you feel like that you even on a whatever I said there was some kind of com back in Indiana, remember getting really frustrated and I don't know that's why I want to come and learn about philosophy, so I can figure out about, but I have no idea because I lost my temper. I never did figure it out. Then you throw your phone out of his way before the phone here, but it was just that comes a point when I just find it really hard to deserve. Even you have to go very far with this, and I just think, oh well, whatever, let's just sort of get on with you know practical life, say. Well, it's essentially it's the dunbars number of philosophical discussion. Our minds are limited in our ability to sort of take these ideas in there we don't the capacity to extrapolate. It's too much, this concept of recreating reality in an indistinguishable manner is too weird too, but I think it's something we better to start talking about 'cause, it's common yeah,

I'm really happy that you are, and I think it's really important- that other people are I'm just saying I'm not to the other important other people are doing it than me in the hierarchy. I think that you know a lot more about it than I do and you've read more about it tonight I have, and I just think that is it's really important that generally we talk about it and really strong sense of awareness of how these things might change stuff and uh, the time it will be for the better and that's great, but we should just talk about it. While I had opportunity to talk to Kurz. While for an hour and a half, and I sat down, I interviewed him about these things and it was really fascinating. We had a great conversation, but This guy is not thinking about negatives at all. All his thinking is gung ho right, full blast pet.

Call to the metal he mean he's taking like he takes giant bags of supplements everyday 'cause he's an older man he's just trying to keep his biology alive long enough to see this new birth of technology, and when it gets really crazy, what he's trying to do also is he's trying to I think his father come back to life. His father die I did when he was young and he believes that if they figure out a way to recreate a person from memories from just the knowledge of who this person was images that you're. Going to be able to recreate this guy in some sort of an artificial form means one of the thing we discussed this, he wants to see his father again and the idea that he and recreate his father, technologically from from his member from all sorts of different things, from memory from all the data that installs from recorded stuff.

It's one of the most fascinating concepts that I've ever heard when it comes to the increasing increasing power of computing, is that they're going to get to a point one day? If computers can you accelerate two dot one day where they can take in count all the positions of all the objects and all the things that are things that exist all over the world as data and from them extra wait where things will be and where things were so why? Where things were meaning, knowing everything in this room where it's at in this position, they'll be need to figure out how it all got here, who move Jamie move, this over there and Brian pick that up and turned it on, and they will literally be able to calculate the past. They'll be able to by what we have here by everything we have here and what we know they'll be able to calculate the actions of the past madness.

Run our time. That's what yeah he's holding his hand up? Ok, well, I'm pretty pleased to hear that, because at this point I'm just like ok, that's it is, I don't understand it will be able to look at all the ground itself. Look at the content of the dirt, the pollution in the ocean, the carbon in the air, the distance between and these two trees in the mount of pencils that are on your desk and they'll, be able to figure out the past. Computers will be so far advanced. It just runs with that line. I come in which Woody Allen Film, where. Sums up. How did he asked? How did the horses parents, how does the tv work or something? What do I know about the interviewer, so I can't even figure out how they can opener works yeah. I think the tv baffles me this stuff, you, know yeah it should it should, and it's only going to get more and more baffling we're stuck with these dumb monkey brains. Yes, that's the problem where the dumb monkeys that are sitting around here waiting for

is change, and when things do change, we will be just as weird as Australia pithecus, if you put the time machine from a million years ago and threw him into the Fucking Burbank Mall We would be running around going wild off all guys that, because things change because things grow and things evolve, including you we're just along for the ride. So I think the real key to human beings and it's the most difficult aspect of life is to get really good at this month. Get really good it just existing in the moment after I agree with that so fucking hard to do right, yeah, it's great, it's a great way of thinking about it, because it just means that you don't so? Much because you can you know this stuff that you can understand and relate to and be be good and enjoy. I think that's totally wrong. And there's some power and worry. Can I can't worry about worrying. 'cause worry causes,

preparation, preparation, causes you to cover your bases and remove a lot of paranoia because you relax like one of the best things you could ever do. If you're worried about something is handle it. You know you handle it, you deal with it, you don't have to worry about it anymore, so I don't think there's anything wrong with worrying a little bit, but I think like all these other things that we've discussed it's a balancing act is there's a Go crazy and watch porn all day, but if you watch a little bit, I think you're going to be ok, you know don't, don't get nutty and sit in front of tv twenty four hours a day. But what this game of thrones every now and then I don't think it's gonna hurt ya. You know what do you get outside every now and then, but don't stay there when I It's cold. You need to get indoors. You know, there's the world's big there's a lot of shit go. And it is simply a matter of there's so much happening and there's so much to take in and there's so much going on. There is not one good or bad there's just a bunch of different things happening all at once:

yeah and that's why I totally agree with you that the more you can give people the freedom to appearance and enjoy and kind of right there the story about how they they do stuff and not be told what to do by others, the better. Indeed crowdpac there you go. Crowd crowdpsc dot com. That is the website. If, if you're interested in that and the elections are today shockingly little discussion, both online and on the news about them, if your, if you're curious, go to a club, crowd pack, C r, o d e p, a c dot com and- and you get your voting guide- get go there and then click on it and enter in all the information and find out. What's going on, it's really. I like. I did check this out. I think it's really pretty cool. What you've done. Yeah, I just wanna say a priority. Is it's? You know it's really early days. The is the first little test version of it. We just doing it.

California! So I'm sorry! If people are listening outside California, we won't work so well for you. I should say that this is a test We will be back for the the mid term elections in the fall with with a whole new set of things and data for politicians. All of the country, so September will be with a much more well Upton, much sort of bigger and better product, and I think it's going to really shake things up a bit. That's and anyway, I think you will too. I think I will too. We need to get you together with the young Turks yeah. That sounds right now and I'll check that off dimension to will the primary thing yeah yeah he's on the right track when it comes to that stuff too, Steve Thank you very much. Thank you chose three huge three hours. Three hours just flew right back at that families are three o'clock. Thank

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also to tango to Rogan, DOT, ten dot com and save twenty five dollars off of any new device. That's Rogan DOT, teen dot com. We will be back. This is it for the rest. The week will be back next week and with a lot of fascinating ship. Instant anyway will be here next Wednesday. That's the next part cast until then go yourself. No, don't do that. Be nice be nice to each other live in the moment. My friends enjoy.