« The Joe Rogan Experience

#530 - Vince & Emily Horn, from Buddhist Geeks

2014-08-04 | 🔗
Buddhist Geeks is a podcast, on-line magazine and annual conference with a primary focus on American Buddhism.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
if you hear those clicks that's me typing ladies and gentlemen i'm not the fastest typer in the world i get it done this episode of the podcast is brought to you by blue apron blue apron is one of my newest an most favoritest that's not real word sponsors because what essentially is is they send you all the ingredients for healthy meals and you cook them yourself by their directions with their recipes all the portions are measured out perfectly along spices and detailed photographs that show you what to do in all the various parts of the recipe to really interest and it's kind of fun to his cooking you know you if you if you get like a recipe book and then you have to go to the store
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is the code word rogan in the referral box at checkout and save yourself some money that's legalzoom dot com do you like my new song very good thank you yeah don't use that legalzoom i'll write a better one for it anyway emily and vincent are here from buddhist geeks and let's just get cracking my foreground legalzoom dot com his co don't open podcast check it out logan experience trying my day joe rogan podcast by night all day i gotta figure out a better way to do commercials 'cause it's always weird with two people at a three or just sitting there and one per in this talk and doing a bunch of it creates comfortable air in the room i'm a little bit little bit it's a little odd buddhist geeks somebody sent me a link i guess it was probably a couple weeks ago on twitter to you guys and right away i went this could be interesting a can
agents of would you say spirituality buddhism and technology and geeks always is somehow connected with impaired invision which is very strange right like being very studious and intelligent is connected to your eyes are fucked like every you know i mean you're hearing it screens all day i think is that what it must be right because as i've spent more time in front of the computer my eyes have steadily gotten worse but your image the logo is the buddha with glasses on so even the divine are not immune to the perils of lcd screens true enough is there a better way around this to to do something where it doesn't completely destroy your vision may be clairvoyant can develop that capacity that's the only way the reading does it to write we've always associated reading with or is it just old and we
is blaming it on a bunch of other shit could be that but i think it's staring at things up close you know there's just i think the eyes just get used to staring at things up close and i just can't see far away anymore that's my theory with me it's the opposite though my up close vision starting to suck but my vision like looking at you guys this distance is fine it's perfect that might be age then yeah i'm saying this age it's also because when i put on reading glasses things just get sharper like on lots of things really would like you like i could read everything without the glasses but they want to put a minus you like to give you know you know look at pages you can see the actual detail the texture in the paper itself that's all gone to me that's all gone in the real world what is buddhist geeks what you guys doing well we started several years ago as a podcast doing this kind of thing talking to people and in the beginning it was just my sort of early twenties eliot against the buddhist tradition and i
how to talk to people that weren't part of the main in this world but had something cool to say i thought so just basically started by talking to some different rebels a lot of gen x who we're kind of coming up as as teachers and meditation dino experts are masters and it's started there just as a kind of wind project with a couple friends and then people responded so we kept doing it and we felt as of obligation to continue exploring buddhism tech ology culture the way it's going blazing and we just sort of from there just been on a sort of eight year odyssey and only recently about four years ago can i join the team and we have been doing the mom and pop thanks i love that buddhism has rebels absolutely what is the main what the main thing that people fight not fight against but rebel against with buddhism
i think it's like most religions you know there's some aspect just rebelling against people telling you what to do or the feeling that you know this system of beliefs is telling you how to live in what to do with your life i think that's part of it is just kind of breaking apart dogmatic structure and sort of saying hey actually we can make this our own and figure out how do it ourselves because we're the ones that are interested in it so we have to sort of take ownership of that and so there's a bit of like i guess generational push back actually we don't want to meditate like the hippies did you know we don't want lotus flowers and incense you know we want like computer screens and meditation apps you know we want to do it the way it makes sense to us but is that an effective way to do it like meditation apps is that real is it legit other like some mended meditation apps there's better than traditional forms a minute or an alternative i should say to traditional forms of meditation there are there's some good ones i think they're good to start
as soon as you start really getting into it though then it's useful to i think still meet space has the upper hand over the app space interesting yeah but i'd rick beautify that was one that emily night time contributed to and it's a it's a modern mindfulness on the go app said sir teaches you how to meditate in different contexts like if you're at the jam or if you're you know on the tube one for working on the computer yeah i've read a couple for working on the computer so it's really just about trying to bridge like what we're doing already in our lives with a meditation practice in these ancient
tions that have come down what do you what is the app for working on the computer what does that entail defies the app and then the couple and meditations that road it's just simple things like bringing your attention to different kind of anchor points for example you know we all usually have some sort of touch screen mobile device and so you know you can use your use it to bring your attention back as you swipe at you know back and forth with your finger such just something you know very simple to return to so that you know because business and the mind can start to just kind of settle so that you know you're more aware and by being more aware it makes a lot of difference when you say more where you mean because a lot of people scattered there are all of yeah he said yeah based on one minute and they were on you know all kinds of different apps you name one is facebook the devil no sometimes it
there's no meditation in facebook though correct not yet not what i think facebook a it it's a fascination with social interaction right that's what it is it's this this thing where yeah i read this piece was talking about the origins of gossip and what would gossip is all about and why so many people are into celebrities and celebrity gossip that kim kardashian stuff and that kind of thing and big thing being that our culture doesn't have the same sort of communities that it once had these tribal bonds that expanded from fifty two hundred and fifty people to cities of thirty million there they're very confusing for our biology apparently absolutely and so that's why will gravitate towards what seems to be really inane like this this this pulled towards my god she left him and he went up with her and uh goodness you see those magazine covers just want to grab them and people who have no
part of your life at all you shouldn't be caring about them even remotely but for whatever reason you're compelled to do it a little bit of that with the facebook thing right i totally agree minute i read a great art well it said in some sense facebook brought that experience of living in a tribal village back technology yeah all of marshall mcluhan and his whole sir theory about every technology bring something back from the past yeah the clone as my favorite all time quotes is the the human things are the sex organs for the machine world who yeah that's the greatest ever right that is one of the all time greatest click jbs danes not only is the universe queerer than you suppose it's quicker than you can suppose that's my number one favorite but number two right up there because it is a it mean mcluhan's was right what are we doing we're making we're making computers and we keep
making better ones we keep we're essentially the evolutionary device that causes the things that we created to accelerate far quicker and innovate far quicker than biology ever has a chance to and in the process where all so it seemingly at least on the verge of creating some sort of an artificial biological life some whether biological mean i don't know you call artificially did cells that interact with each other the same way human cells do but we're pretty god damn close whether it's a hundred years or two hundred years pretty close to making artificial people and where is that coming from it's coming from people i mean we really i've if they are machines biological machines and will be right and then a new life form will be birthed out of our greasy little hands not ours obviously yeah i think that's right i i saw elon musk on twitter
days ago said increasingly looks like to be the biological bootloaders for digital super intelligence yeah most likely there's a bunch of people that don't believe that's happening i read this interesting article on kurz while the guy was very critical occurs while and he was uh i think this guys like sort of he's a curmudgeon a bit he's it intelligent guy but his criticism first why was basically a biological criticism of that understanding of the human mind is already it's fairly limited in terms of like how the human mind processes various hormones and neurotransmitters and proteins and that are no way will be able to recreate that because our ideas of human of the hue mind the biological mind are still constantly evolving and changing and growing and then we're not really ready yet to duplicate the human mind but my
take on that was that we don't have to duplicate the biolage functions of it to duplicate the actual functions of it is if they figure away two to make something that not only mimics the memory banks or the memory access of the human mind but is much better than it does it in a completely different way and non biological way and they can figure way to download intelligence or download consciousness or memories into that bank well not going to really need this the idea of cells and proteins and that is those are the components of the biological machine but if we can make a better version of that and do it like some sort of a synthetic version or some sort of an artificially create version it doesn't seem to me that we're going to need to know everything about the human mind in order to recreate its process is right that makes sense i mean
since i a a i feel like i'm i'm not enough of a specialist on artificial turf intelligence to really know the difference the problem is i don't think anybody is i mean there's a bunch of people that are working really hard at it but no one's ever done it so if you haven't done it who's the fuck are you an expert i mean if if there's no artificial human being that is state of the art version seven capable compassion understands action hopefully it will be well it has to be right otherwise terminator style that's right right that's the so the question now sir like the way we did nuclear power before we learn how to shut off nuclear power plants like i hope they don't do that with artificial intelligence like well it's just this thing up and running and then we'll figure out a way to give it emotions yeah no i mean that's what scares me a little with the ai stuff is that it's so much focused on the rational thought process and yet my experience of being human is that that's barely part of my human
experience occasionally i'm rational i have thoughts but mostly i'm just like reacting to things and emotional and i don't even know what's running most of my processes yeah that is an issue right yeah and i think it's also interesting to see just bring a little bit of the feminine perspective and it's like i'm very conscious of like you know childbirth and some of the you know natural things that are on my mind a lot and so thinking about merging the technology or creating some sort of artificial intelligence it it seems to me that a lot of these conversations start to navigate really quickly towards getting out of the body and so you know wonder if there is some sort of bridge between you know we're going to create something new and at the same time like you were saying like infusing that with wisdom and compassion and some of these by logical processes are we ever really going to get out of that i don't know that it's just an undo
bing assumption a lot in these conversations that i think is interesting yeah it's fascinating because the the general idea of the human body and the needs of the body whether the needs for food of the need for the human touch or the need for you need to breed all these different things will be completely unnecessary if we're no longer biological an what what is causing war what causing greed what is cause bing jealousy are these ancient monkey ideas that are stuck in our genetics these mechanisms that have sort of forced us into the future they forced competition they forced us to co adapt just to learn to interact with each other and the along the way we've sort of developed this method for managing the biology and meditate and being one of them meditation
and mindfulness and trying to be centered in being the president has sort of emerged because so many people like by my fucking heads all over the place and grow this is hey this is what i've learned if you just do the yes and say this is where i am this is what i'm doing all that other stuff is nonsense i concentrate on this and this i can get things done with but if i live in the past and worry about all the mistakes that i've made and i allow them to define them allow come to define me rather than be very limiting and they can really ruin your perception so in a sense or flavor your perceptions in a very unsatisfactory or a very unwelcome way or your day can be burdened by the past or you could be in like these all these things are sort of designed to allow us to navigate the biological waters to figure out what is the push pull of this machine
why is this machine jealous like what's going on here why is this want me to be upset at someone elses success while just want me to be upset that some is attracted to someone else other than me why does this want me to be upset at someone else's house or someone else's is family or whatever it is that is tweaking you what's going on in here well it's the machine wants competition because the machine has gotten you to twenty fourteen a million years ago a monkey crawled out of a hole and figured out a way to draw an arrow that points towards where the food is the other monkeys that oh that way you could like oh i see what you're doing and then those ideas compiled and they piled on to other ideas and before you know it a million years later we have a civilization of complex civilization that has all these different influences that have led us to this point but a lot of them reply a logical a lot of the very motivations for doing most of what people do on a daily basis are very biological
when those are eliminated it becomes real questions like what's life what exactly are we and if we reproduce through test tubes or whatever the hell is going to be you know when become more you know 3d printers or whatever it's going to be when become biological biological or artificial biology like what what are we and what is life yeah those are really important questions so i guess i guess one thing thought was interesting as i got into the transhumanist stuff you know while back was that they use this term mind uploading to kind of predict you know we'd be able to upload our consciousness into the cloud and stuff like that but i thought it was interesting that later i realized they never then use the term body downloading so why is that you can upload your mind to the cloud but you can't then download your consciousness back into different kinds of bodies and i think
speaks a little bit to emily saying that there's a lot a lot of the shadow of the geek culture is a disdain for physical body and a disdain for limitations which i totally understand because you know i think there's part of us that wants to transcend the limits of being human you know and it's the same thing that drives the buddhist meditators to seek for enlightenment it's to realize this thing which is beyond in some sense the limitations of the human experience and yet you know real mature expression or realization in the buddhist tradition is to realize that and then to return back into your incarnated physical form and to fully inhabit it so uh hope that the transhumanists in the folks that are building these seeds of digital super tell a jance realize that even if were able to uh but our patterns into the cloud we still if
if they're still beings who have a sense of of themselves and and have some sort of physical substrate weather carbon or silicon that they're still going have to deal with certain issues of incarnation of being in a form of physical form of some sort even if it's a very loose digital in a very fast flickering warm like it still there's still something there and there's still some sort of reference point and i think that's where the buddhist has something to say even about superintelligence and and what that experience i'd be like because as long as there's a form as long as there's an identity right like a reference point me then there's going to be certain kinds of issues that we can't get rid of like then i have to deal with you and to deal with these other use and then there's things objects outside of me and some of them i want and some of them i don't want and some of them are just going to ignore and so even if i were a superintelligent consciousness
which i can't imagine because my imagination so limited i still think there will be some amount of fundamental faction that's built into the experience of being are in individual who has a reference point and i think that's in some sense what the buddhist path is about seeing clearly is that most if our existential suffering and despair comes from this fundamental appearance of being a separate being who exist on side of my body but isn't the i mean if you really stop to think about true enlightenment and being completely in completely in the moment doesn't exists in the animal kingdom exclusively i mean that's the only way they exist they exist completely in the moment and a sense that the most biological of all creatures and that that's a but it has no existential issues they i don't have any angst in terms of their future though
past they they live and exist completely in the moment so isn't star awareness of the futility the of this existence that's part of the problem because along the way we we're innovating we're expanding we're growing we're doing all these and things were going to bio hack in conferences and whatever the hell your doing but at the end of the day you so when you die you have a very short window here and it's like what what do you see post to be doing are you supposed to be enjoying it are supposed to be leaving it better for the people that come after you and what's their poor purpose like why leave it better for them and what are they doing there just leaving it better for the next at the end of the day what do we do with just enhancing this giant super organism known as the human race and for what purpose because we're helping it pollute because we want more planes in the sky we want better cell phones like what you know the existential angst of being
of being conscious of being able to recognize this is kind of like at the end of the day like this is just a weird little trip you're on you know you're on a birth to death trip and what if you become something that's not human if you become something is not burdened by biology is not burdened by sexual urges or or any of the the pettier of of turn human life that we all struggle with what exactly are you here for what exactly is going on and motivation might be the number one problem with artificial and it might not even be compassion it might be that uh official intelligence it becomes so intelligent so it's like what we're not doing shit ok i'm not doing nothing will should i do anything like why would i expand why would i move on why would i make more of me while
they do anything why would explore galaxies i don't even have ovaries you know i don't have a mind i don't have a sense of futile sorry i don't have a beginning and an end i can make another one of me with a button like what am i do am i going to go see the top of you know the grand canyon and for what for what purpose would have i'm going to get flying a plane and go to paris why what do i give a shit i don't have any desire to learn like there's no urge to improve and innovate i'm now biological anymore like what is created everything we have everything that we have every every building that we've ever made every work of art that we've ever created is essentially this thing inside human beings that wants us to innovate and create this this this thing that is allowed us to radically reshape our environment that
is allowed us to design cities and pieces and pieces of art pieces of architecture and all these different things that we created his all come from that same desire that desire to continually improve but if if the human body transcendent with some sort of artificial creation and we become far more enlightened intelligent the ultimate question b y well i would say the ultimate question for me would be who are we yeah what are we what is your what because you know when that when i'm listening to you talk about this and i'm like huh there's apartment like no like let's not do that and then there's this other part of me that's like yeah that desire to create and that desire to move forward in the evolutionary like impulse in us all is so strong and that's what makes us so beautiful and so when
i really touch into the mystery of it all in the beauty and the wonder and what you're talking about with the art to me it's like not such a question of trying to get out of this anymore it's more like a question of how can we use these technologies and the things that we are learning through science and the natural laws of things because honestly if we start to violate much more of our natural laws are oceans are going to rebel and like our earth is going to become unstable and we're seeing some of that so we do have to balance the biological component with the evolutionary impulse an one thing that comes to my mind is a philosopher ken wilber talks about transcendent include a lot so what if you know part of what we're doing is learning how to trans send some of our limitations human beings and at the same time include some of those limitations that keeps us grounded i think that's really important as well transcendent include yeah i just wonder what would happen
if we eliminate all of our biological urges and would things just completely stop why would anybody create art if we don't want to impress other folks well i think we have a choice maybe some some individuals would chew to eliminate those things maybe some would choose not to write yeah well if there's like a huh diversity and it's not just one thing that we become what if it's like many things and people just kind of decide to go off reprogram their conscious in various ways well i've always been fascinated by this idea of constant improvement and it's sort of what fuels modern corporations this idea of constant growth this it few rules human beings like no one is happy with where they are are they want a bigger house they want a better car they want you know if they an artist they want to create their latest greatest masterpiece they don't want to sit on their laurels they want to consistently constantly improve where is the iphone
six i'm still waiting waiting i'm waiting yeah we have this consistent constant need for improvement and that is essentially designed into the evolutionary process itself like that's what lead single celled organisms to divide become multi celled organisms to get out of the ocean to see clan seek shelter to seek improvements in altering its environment in order to protect itself from predators which led us to the 21st century to where we are today having this conversation that somehow i don't know you understand it but i don't understand how my voice is being processed down into ones and zeros and pump through the sky and people are getting it on their phone right now is it driving in their car this is madness this is a mad mad mad world and what is the the urge behind all of it well it's this by a lot magical need for innovation this biological need for constant improvement and it's
it's designed in the evolutionary process itself i mean it's a part of the evolutionary process mean why why do animals evolved why don't they just say fuck it if these fish keep sabonis let's just let's stay the same color and go extinct no bugs mer they start like seen caterpillars that like look like predators that they have developed eyes on their backs so that they can scary so that less animals eat them or at least they've got to that point where that design i mean i don't know how you can ever really truly completely explain some of these butterflies that have these elaborate images that have have emerged throughout i mean how many hundreds of thousands or millions of years of evolution but it's it's incredibly fascinating that they've developed this new need to figure out how to trick animals so they can continue you breathe even prove they've innovated and that's that if you could
talk to a butterfly and go listen to you live a week why fucker do you care like if you die or your relatives die what kind of bullshit life is this you know live a week you fly around people go look at the butterfly and then it's over like let a bunch of your gpu let's let's just get this over with you know come back is a better bug figure out how to exist as a microbe inside the body of the animals that are eating you and then develop from its poop into some magical plant that enlightens the people that eat it or something but living is a butterfly is bullshit but they don't think that way there's just this part of this process this continue to innovate constantly push forward make things better if we stop being biological does everything just stop does everything just and you know what is the conversation then if you do i have a motivation if the you don't have an expiration date if you don't have
peoples sexual choices to appeal to if you don't have people's social choices to appeal to if you don't want people to lie q if you don't have any desire biologically what's the motivation whoa well i mean obviously this is highly speculative in a way but maybe i just throw in one piece sure kind of back down to the to the analog version of of intelligence which is these human body sitting here having this conversation if that's ok with you i'd say there's another piece that's really important in what you're saying there's here is the drive to innovate into trance end but then i think there's also a very powerful force that moves in the other direction and i would call it compassion or care or love and it's that part of us that wants to include everything like emily mentioned transcending
including you know we can become better and better and better but what good is it if everyone else is left behind you know what good if we're in a living living the high life and there are millions of people who are struggling to feed themselves you know at some level when we get in touch with the reality of that there's part of us if we're our hearts are open you know that really resonates with the pain of that and wants to include and wants to respond to that stuff bring into that difficulty and i think that's part of the reason life exists as well it's one of the primary reasons is not just to transcend but it's also to care for and to respond to the knee of others because we realized it's not just about us like it's not just this experience it's important on there are the all these others you know that are also having an experience and they're not unlike me you know there and that's why compassion can can exist because i realize like your experience is not unlike my ex
variance there's a way in which we have this common hardware where this common sense sense of conscious this i assume this common hopes and fears desires and so in that sense and i think passion is a really powerful force that also holds life together and keeps it from flinging apart into the into the ether but this cynical and objective amongst us would look at that and say well that's just a mechanism in order to keep society together to allow this consistent innovation you need people stay together in order to get people to work together in order to get the maximum amount of productivity out of the human mind and creativity this is only one way they have to love each other if they don't lie each other they're not going to build shit they're going to go live like ted kaczynski and hide up in the woods in a little shack and try to stay away from each other as much as possible pa the reason why we do so well is because we
compassion so it could certain would be considered an evolutionary device to ensure innovation and constant growth and it has i mean every society that has done well in a society that cherished its members if you don't give a fuck about you members you get to north korea type situation where there's no innovation the country stagnant everyone lives in fear the lights are at night and that's uh worst case scenario for a modern culture and that that is based on most entirely on those same ideas that like the lack of compassion for your fellow beings exhibited like and if you looked at the one thing or you ask that's the one thing that troubles you most about brutal dictatorship like north korea while the poor people that live there the poor people that are soft
they live there are compassion is a part of what makes us it's a it's a it's a component a critical component which makes a successful yeah and i think you know you can look at it from in that perspective but i think there's other ways to look at it which is that compassion in and of itself is a good you know that there's something inherent in the experience of compassion of the open heart that's responding to suffering which is in itself good and that you know when you experience in touch into that space which completely dissolve cynicism in in the moment of it there is there is a feeling of this is this is right like this is right to respond to the difficulty of other beings on some fundamental level we aren't separate from each other and some fundamental way the level of the universe itself you
everything arose out of this momentary big bang right that's our current story about it like okay what the was that where did that what what what was that that it all came from this nothing this infinitely smalls point in space actually in the big bang isn't something that have in the past it's something that is happening right now it's something that the that which was prior to the versus still here and that is also our nature and that nature is naturally compassionate it naturally responds it naturally includes everything so i think there's something notice that also wants to reunite with our own deepest heart in our own deepest but but does it really because in if that's the case and how do you how do you factor in predators how do you factor in the the the kinds didn't competition in the wild that exists everywhere compassion really only exists when their safety is the only family exists when would you know when you
worry about your own exist since constantly it's like this rap did sort of primal struggle when all that is put to rest and you build up walls and you have a fire and he can ho each other and everyone's together and find then there's the room and need for compassion but with the eagle in the fish no compassion i think you're speaking to our habitual patterns that get ingrained in us as we grow up and with the buddhist training that i've been through it really does teach us how to start to deconstruct some of that training i mean compassion naturally arises in a moments notice without there being this strong sense of contraction around our small sense of self you know when your child reaches for the stove you're going to try to jerk it back but you don't want it to burn itself right that's the level of compassion does naturally arising so well that's that's also being a urinal
interroll you're teaching this human being about things that it doesn't understand yet i would think of of compassion is someone you have no biological connection to at all and you see them in need of help and you help and there's something that inherently satisfying about that when you do help someone that's very strange like me and my friend we're driving were in north carolina were driving down the road and we saw this car alright had like its hazards on but they were like really really dim and those on the side of the road and as we pass the car maybe a couple one hundred yards later we saw a guy in lying on his back oh shit something happened so we stopped the car we got out we help the guy would called nine one one we got the guy up yet severe asthma is car ran out of gas and he had an asthmatic attack and fell and and we spent a bunch of time with this guy in the cops and and after was over we had this like feel
and the guy was safe the guy was you know the government hospital in an ambulance they took him to the hospital they the whole thing was result and we had this like elation this like light feeling of happiness that we did some thing yeah we retired and we just flown in and we would rather just go to our hotel but instead we spend an hour or so and we felt way better you know it's like feeling of elevation you've helped your fellow being right so it's naturally programmed in us and so therefore we can continue to cultivate that and so it's more of a consistent state that's present that's what i've learned yeah that's where the cynic would say that the whole reason for that is so that these human
can breed and make more humans and figure out a way to make a better electric car who figure out a way to make a wormhole it also reminds me of science in the mirror neurons too 'cause we're learning that you know we're mirroring each other and what you're doing is affecting me and what i'm doing is affecting you and it's rewiring our brains as we're talking so so i mean in that sense like we really are so connected that we don't even realize how connect we are so in a sense yeah it is one of the most important things that connection is undeniable and it's it's fascinating when you see people change the people that they hang around with yeah and they all the and improve or regress and that's that consistent pattern with human beings you find a really good group of friends or super healthy and like to do a lot of exciting fun things and their compassion to each other and you start making not behavior or at least mirroring that behavior or when you're and people that are just complete masses so we don't have to be ruled by our biological
desires so when you're saying like greed and hatred and competition and all that then i mean maybe that is where we are at a certain point in some of us are and with evolutionary drive to continue to create an open an really deepen into what some of the wisdom traditions have been talking about then you know it's possible to like i don't know if all of ours wolves as we're as we're even talking here yeah but my question remains like when remove all of these biological urges what is the purpose of this thing 'cause it doesn't doesn't seem to me that there would be any reason to go on if you run moved everything biologic that's just yeah that's just something i mean you can think like that but what would be the purpose i think it's hard to know i mean this is my point of view is like it's hard to know because we don't know what it would be like to be that to be whatever that is mines going try to construct at all so it's sort of like
we can only imagine what it would be like not to be like we are but it's hard to imagine what it would be like to be something that has yet not yet so maybe maybe we could have a follow up interview with all the ten super intelligence and we will be no need for process well we can we can get together in the the instantaneous mind meld with yeah intelligence and refunds that that to me seems more likely than any of those other scenarios uh i wonder like but the next step is i've stopped many times i've spent like entire days thinking about one thousand years from today to one thousand years from now like what is the difference in what what is the difference is going to be and how radical is it going to be how radical is the shift and i really have a feeling that it's going to have nothing to do with the body and all to do with the mind and i think that
this idea of transcending the human body and i have a feeling they're going to figure out some way that the human mind can access other states dimensions levels of conscious that literally the the human body will be irrelevant well it already can yeah we we already can access all kinds of crazy that for some of the things that i've learned in meditation you know it's or psychedelics open that yeah exactly right but what's going on there what is that do we know what is that is that are you opening up the floodgates for human neurotransmitters and the body's ability to process them get skewed and you then see with all sorts of you know do visual beliefs and cry visions because your visual cortex can't process all these chemicals correctly so you have this wild fantastic ride gives you the sense of euphoria this into being disillusioned with it huh no not at all no just
completely offering the devil's advocate point yeah yeah no i appreciate that i mean i think that point of view is coming at it from the biological physical perspective but then there's also the perspective of consciousness itself you know of the experiential aspect of it which is i think also part of the challenge of our moment in time i think is is starting to recognize that both of these perspectives are valid the perspective of consciousness of experience is also valid so from the perspective of consciousness you know it does altered states of experience reveal something valid now whether or not you know we can from that point if you describe the biology of i think it's clear
we can't and so it's useful to have a description of exits what's happening in the brain these you know areas or d afrin shading and then these areas are lighting up and all that stuff but that's not who we that's not that all of who we are we're not just brains right because you know we're having thoughts about brains and the only way brains existence through our through our internal representations of brains and and in terms of human consciousness so i think you know that be the other perspective is like consciousness itself is also a valid perspective on this and from that point of view you those moments of altered experience of like compassion like you described when you you realized you helped the person in asheville and were there for him you know when your child's born or when you you take a hallucinogenic medison with the intention of learning more about your you know your deepest nature or something about yourself or going on a meditation retreat an exploring experience moment by moment i think this thing
reveal very important truths that are on the level of con dismiss itself that you know you can't convince a skeptic or cynic that they're true but you can give them the instructions and say hey run this program and see what happens and and and if you do it with a certain kind of intention then you know it it changes your life it changes your perspective it changes your sense of who you are you know and what this is all about and i appreciate that you're pointing out you know the one side of it which is that you know yeah this is a limited trip like you know we don't really know what the hell is happening here we don't know how we got into this body at least i don't remember how i got into this but i don't know why i don't know why it's happening right and and then like we're going to die at point and we don't know when that's the other thing we we're going to die but we don't know when we don't know how and we don't know how long for now and so
but there is a certain kind of like in your face shock about that that i think we're constantly coping with human beings never constantly and compassion can be a way to cope with that you know and love like there's a term that this tibetan master used who came to the america in the 70s name chuck him drunk but he said there compassion and then there's idiot compassion an idiot compassion when you are trying to respond to suffering because you can't handle it because you don't you can't actually deal with it do you try to like make it go away or you try to oh poor you poor you you know that kind of compassion so compassion can just as easily be a way to cope with the shocking reality that we don't know what's even going to happen next let alone like what's going to happen in five thousand two hundred years from now um
does that make sense sort of i always felt like compassion is just the way that we kept together though we kept our our love for each other and bonds that feeling other people's pain is the to ensure that we minimize that as much as possible that it's just sort of a part of the biological process especially the biological process of transcending the simple monkey mind and moving into some new state the the ability to understand each other communicate express' information and also to be to conceptualize very bizarre ideas that human beings have kind based their entire society on we base society on bizarre things like laws regular nations money back with you know there's a weird concepts that we have had to factor in to our view of the world the environment are
our interaction with that environment or effect on environment how much which can we mitigate that how much is just a necessary evil to maintain our wonderful existence with air conditioning and you know high speed internet i mean what what are those thoughts where those things going and how much of those are connected to again the same thing this constant need to stay together help each other innovate help each other move forward press forward and continue to grow and is something like buddhism or transcendental meditation or anything are these just sort of like is to get through this in a relatively sane way are these essentially man created technologies human created techno geez to mitigate the natural world i in in a way they clearly are because humans sat under trees in india two five hundred music over thousands of years ago and it
lord their own minds and did come up with various programs for how to work with it variance isn't that fascinating that someone along i'm ago was like looking around people hacking each other to death of swords and it's like you know there's gotta be a way around some of this shit you know like what's going on here going on why is everybody why is relaunching arrows over the top of those walls like what the fuck are we doing why in india what the hell is going on in india yeah no india's been the birthplace of a lot of developments in consciousness not coincidentally worships cows who not going donnelly make cow from double under animals that psilocybin mushrooms grow on completely can did for sure without a doubt and soma you know the the ancient vedic traditions and all these ancient hindu texts that speak of the is psychedelic drugs we don't even know what the hell they wore these important psychedelic gasp
to their culture that are completely lost no one knows what soma is means it's a huge part of their aim religious tradition and whatever it is like completely up for debate some feel it's a comma tory drug with you know the emma to miscarry and psilocybin and all sorts of different things but no one knows just all guesswork but that's got to be a part of it right someone ate some mushrooms and said those cows are awesome we need if we can keep those guys around don't eat that cows eat this yeah i don't either because the this from the couch yes you know like what a trip starving people letting cows go because the cows make ship add mushrooms grow on yeah i i think it's crazy to that people figured out how to pay it mention and and use the body in a way to produce some of those effects endogenous lee know to be able to experience that even without mushrooms
be able to get into this kind of states of consciousness and even to stabilize them you know as a as a kind of baseline of exist welcome to win the masters people that are really good at kundalini the i have a friend who teaches it and he says he can reach these complete psychedelic states where he's interact ng with beings that may or may not be there that he can visually recognize in front of like he can see it as if he's tripping and i'm like how do you like where are you getting there six years and years and years of mindfulness in this very specific practice right concentration you know is the always tied to an every contemplative tradition these sort of psychedelic or psychic experiences like the ability to focus and to to be able to absorb consciousness in one thing seems to be the gateway and to which you know all those other weird yeah can arise but you're to not pay attention those experiences that that's like you're missing the point if you're trying to seek out these hallucinations
traditions a lot of district since do surveys suggest on not getting side tracked by them yeah but they inform us and change the way that we can relate to things that they are important yeah the end goal they they can definitely do a lot of good work yeah and a lot of weird shit oh yeah that is a you know in there's like people like out there like casting weird stuff at each other and you know i don't i've been it's about so i don't know how much of it is like you can just see you weird stuff happening and how much of it is there but ology but all the same like there's enough weird stories coming out of places of people that have been sitting in caves for you know militant millenia exploring consciousness they were already uploading i mean we've been i guess uploading it to in some level well there are
work itself is representative of these experiences if you look at to baton artwork is so trippy it's mind blowing so psychedelic yeah yeah we we did a meditation a couple weekends ago and one of the guided meditations was to imagine a load flower in your heart that had a thousand pedals and each pedal with shooting off a beam of clear light that connected with another pedal in another being's heart and that sort of expert out infinitely but it also went in both directions like in terms of the a in quantum level in the universe is within atom and it went outward in all directions and i'm like okay these these dudes were you know because they mostly were dudes there will do this these dudes were like exploring the furthest reaches of of the inner you cosmos what do you mean by they were mostly dudes that were able to do this well i mean the cultures of tibet and most of these places
there were nuns and there were women doing the practices but i don't think they had as much opportunity to do them because of the you know the organization of their cultures but there's not a biological limitation achieving these experiences no actually the tibetan say women easier time at these this is imagine them because testosterone is so controlling and limiting in in that sense like this so much ego bound to testosterone and and also the the mortality of testosterone like being the one that survives and good to all of this is like inexorably sort of connected to the those sex hormone over the mail i would imagine that that would be more limiting and is a better meditator that i am i practiced twice as hard and experience half the results you guys ever go in a sensory deprivation tanks i have not done that i haven't done that yet how dare both of you
i know i know such a confusing thing to me because i've been such an advocate on the sensory deprivation tank and i talked to so many people that are in the meditation of my how do you not use the one tool that is essentially like designed for the best meditation possible well retreats you know we've both done a lot of months of intensive retreat and it's kind sensory deprivation i you don't talk you don't you know eat what's in front of you you you're sitting in silence was the time it like it really does limit the sensory input right and you know i've been in states of consciousness where all sensory input sort of disappears awhile so i feel like i've had that experience of how could you say that though you haven't done it you haven't done the actual tank itself i don't know how it compares exactly but i know what it's like to experience a lack of sensory input right inter lease on a certain level and a certain level that you know there's no such
it's a visual sight sound this actually probably deeper because there's a sense of the body at all and the state's completely formless months prayer than what deeper than if your leg in a tank and you still have an experience of the senses of your body like if you can still feel your body can you feel your body in a sensory deprivation tank no that's the whole point ok so it's probably similar more intense this why i've i've done both the sensory deprivation tank you're weightless what to do it floating in water that's the same temperatures your skin so you don't he knows where the water ends in the year with your body completely ceases to send information to you yeah and if you guys are already good at meditating meditating in a tank would be like turbocharged probably write a hundred percent guaranteed the i can't believe you haven't done what why don't you have a sponsor yet for for a i have one in my basement i have a tank in my basement are you that sucker all the time you need new advertiser here i
well i could sort of help my friend crash who owns the float lab in venice but i don't do it for financial compensation i just do it because i want people to know about it but i would i do i retweet people's tanks all the time that i have no affiliation with whatsoever just because i think it's in a it's a massively important tool that is somehow or another slipped through the fingers of our our consciousness and i don't i don't get how people having grabbed hold of that and ran with it i read a study one time that says a lot of people once they have some sort of opening we could call it mystical experience for lack of a better word right now that a lot of people don't want to have them again after they've had it the first time something about the opening kind of freaks people out
those people are weak to just scare but i'm just saying yeah i mean and it can be scary for people so it seems like the expansion of consciousness is something that is naturally in us as well and so thinking about the technology where we started this conversation a little bit it's like there is this impulse to explore and to like expand and upload into different states and realms of being with that fear of expansion that's just that's just the ego that's all that is us is your body trying to re claim like some sort of walls with let's put back countries on the soccer so we can clearly defined it where you when you have a psychedelic experience one of the things that's the most talked about aspect of it is the boundary dissolving aspect of it that the boundary all dissolving like i remember one of first times that i did a really potent psychedelic was
five amiot dm dmt in the overwhelming message from it was that there's no op and there's no down and that you're just a part of the infinite and that feeling is very like saying it like this is it sounds like just a bunch of noise coming out of your mouth the sort of vaguely represents what this concept would be but experience in the psychedelic state was so overwhelmingly educational and so it was so bad laundry defining like whatever i thought of as a boundary in the past was now like oh that was just this and this is just that and what what you really are is one thing that is holding all these other things that are all a part of this huge thing and this you each thing is you're in it you're not separate i'm not separate from you you and i are these containers that are
inside of this there's air and there's always something there there's not there's no nothing that doesn't exist there's no nothing there's no nothing anywhere even nothing is something yeah notions and shinzen young one of our our favorite teachers emptiness is not a thing it's a pure doing which is sort of another way of saying i think what you're pointing to that things just happening as it is and there's no innocence there's no thing that goes beyond all of that it's just this you know it's just this happening that's happening one the universe also is like a soup it's not like you not throwing the ball through the air and some is catching it it's not hitting anything it's not vacuum like the whole thing is just it's filled with something it's all connect like you and i aren't really separate from each other we're just not touching skin but we're touching something that's touching us it's in that you know we're all feeling that boy that sounds hippie
who that but but it's also true yeah in some way it's also true and that these these ideas whether it's meditation or yoga or psychedelics or these ideas mindfulness are in a lot of ways an attempt to escape this monkey realm to escape this biological realm that we find ourselves in to try to if not but rather to manage it transform yes i would say transform it to what though i don't have a good answer what that is kind of looping back around where we started this conversation to what write this but this is not like building a house and you don't have plans like what are you doing i'm just put in shingles on this thing and it's going to hopefully be something i think i think having i think there we each have to answer question to work i mean and that's very personal thing that way i think i mean
personal in one way but it's also a collective in another way because we you know we we influence each other and we get attracted to things that are connected with what's important to us but you know to me to what you know i think what's beautiful is you know to move toward deeper sense of wisdom to to move toward being able to live in harmony with that realization of interconnected body of deep of that the kind of profound interconnectedness that you're describing you know that literally that there at some level isn't a separation between us no how does that then inform how i live how does change how i live do i sort of say what's the fucking point and just give up or do i you know take that experience and begin to dismantle habits and and ideas and beliefs that are opposed to that experience and actually begin to live no more in harmony too you know in the kind of language of contemplative training to
body that realization to make it your own you know and to make your life an expression of that an expression of that inter connected and compassion and deep care and love for other end including you know cutting through all the bullshit including calling out delusion you know including being a pimp smacking the bullshit in which is i think a big part of you know what what i see you doing here i would just say leaving room for the what to change you know that's not like a fixed thing they were gonna transform into this fix thing we're going to continue to to change into a ball and so that's beautiful to me yes certainly beautiful from a biological standpoint i mean i'm i'm not a cynic in that i don't love life and i don't love him because i i enjoy this experience incredibly i thank an amazing time i think being a person is great i love it i love people love all the fun things you could do as a person but what i'm trying to get to one
talk talking transhumanism and this escape the boundaries of biology there a guy we talked about this podcast before they got bitten by shark so australian cat lost his arm in his leg and they replaced it with this car fibre creation is moving around the standing there no limp guy surround normal his hand that you know it's kind of crude but it does move and it can pick things up and i'm like wow this is quite fascinating like they said to this guy hey i know you got your arm and leg bit off by shark but lucky for you this is two thousand fourteen we have some credible innovation that we've created that's a gonna allow you to have this leg that moves very much like a regular leg and you're going to have a hand that can do a lot of things that a regular hand can do so better than not having that arm and leg and yes and guess what it's going get bad five years from now we'll have a better arm in a better leg and you're going to enjoy this well if
as time goes on the other parts of his body start failing like you know what man there's a problem because you have this artificial right leg your left knee is gone so we're going to replace your left leg to with this artificial leg so this way you'll have two artificial legs and there but they're going to work great great okay listen to your heart is going but good news have an artificial heart and we're going to take this and a hundred years from now this guy is just a brain in this carbon fiber body and he's looking at his eyes he's looking through these are we created eyes they say listen everything works great except the cells of your brain are reproducing irregularly and you're going to develop parkinson's but we i figured out a way to download your consciousness into an artificial brain so we'll just down your consciousness into this in the what's left of you you don't there's nothing there's no biology anymore and well what's
there that when you sit there like really turn that switch on and you are you know two point now what what goes on there well from it for buddhist perspective what's there is your is your karma what's there is the pattern that was you leading up to that point you know the information that made you up and that has continued to move into this new substrate that pattern has a momentum to it it has a history that has memories has beliefs it has it has various things it doesn't it's not it complete discontinuity the substrates change but the you know the pattern has continued in some sense right maybe but how much of that pattern is based on biological need how much of that pattern is based on this cultural
conditioning and the the the patterns of behavior that you've adopted along the way in your life and the environment which grew up in how much of the goes away when you have a brain that's made of fibers that are constructed out of silicon and or whatever i guess it depends on how it yet struck this reminds me of i don't know if you have the experience and some of my teachers talk about this as an example a lot is you're looking in the mirror now and you you kind of get the prize that you age but there's something in you that you don't feel as h do you ever have that experience i do more work just like you know you just as part of you that has an age and then at the same time if you look in the mirror you can tell that you've age does that make sense
the piece of us right that's like i don't know i still feel like nothing's changed inside inside but your vehicle but my feet but then i look in the mirror and i'm like oh my gosh yeah like i got i got it my time is taken even though i'm young you know but i i i get that so there's this like paradox kind of a play so when we're talking about like if we do upload or what is it that is still there like i wonder if some of that would still be there that feeling of nothing's changed and then there is this change that happens and we chin well if you stop aging i mean if it completely ends or it said temporary aging we just got to go and get repainted you know i mean if your car gets a patina from no but rocks and chips on the road and stop all you have to do is bring to the body shop and they sold cars look awesome you know we can't do that with a human being but if we can this this
others companies that specialize in replacing every single part of an old car treating you a new version of an old car that that is all emily incredibly possible for a human being i think that's possible that's crazy though you know and there is this part of us that wants to live forever i mean the holy grail like some of these myths of the listed for a long time so everybody wants to sleep but nobody wants to die it's quite fascinating everybody is more than happy to shut off for eight hours sleep to slowly here yeah here we go nothing i find bazaars like i find it bizarre now is i mean a lot of the fear of death seems to be connected to a fear of of the unknown of what would happen after death i am i just going to disappear you know what's going to happen
and not knowing that is part of i think of the terror the feeling of not knowing what's going to happen and what i find interesting is you know and we were just talking to her whenever is in teachers who who teaches here in santa monica she pointed out you know in every moment we actually don't know what's coming next you know that not knowing it is something constantly having to deal with the terror of not knowing or it you know as hers and teacher called it the don't know mind you know and so i find it interesting to kind of reflect on what it's like to rest in the not knowing to rest in that that sense of not knowing what's going to come next because in that moment every next moment is both a death of this moment and the rebirth of something new there's something new coming online and there's something disappearing and in
since i think it would become comfortable and familiar with that process of moment by moment birth and death then you know whatever happens whether my consciousness gets uploaded to the cloud or i die there's some sense of their some part of me which is fundamentally okay with that death process that constant dying that was the thing i always thought was funky about the the attempt to escape death has actually in order to escape death we're going to have to go through so many deaths of who we think we are you know like you're saying to transplant your consciousness into a silicon brain like some part of you ice in them so we're trying to escape death by running into it headlong well also what if is merely a transitionary face what if you are you live in this existence but when you die you will enter into a new existence and this is what many ancient religions of speculated on throughout
beginning of time i mean since the beginning of time everyone think there's some sort of i mean whether it's wishful thinking or whatever it is it might be just like consciousness is a very bizarre thing to try to define but it is certainly a real thing you know if you tried to consciousness in a lab and say like what is it what's what is it that causes creativity what is it that would define love in some sort of a chemical process we're good luck with that you good luck with trying to figure what that what that warm feeling is when you see your friend at the airport it reminds me that time magazine cover that says that you couldn't they couldn't find the god particle to remember that yeah yeah in the brain that came round it yeah well what is it what what it what is there's so many different aspects to what is life what what defines this existence for the person experiences of themselves and does that transition to something else at the moment of death and is
why the brain it produces all these endogenous psychedelic chemicals give you when you take them give you this elated sense of being give me this the sense of relieving of anxiety in this sense of connection into everything and everything every one that exists like what why do those exist like why are those chemicals in the mind and why do those chemicals why they released at the moment of death while they release at the moment of extreme stress when your body is worried it's going to die while was released during the dream state like what what is that and would we be trapping what consciousness we have now in this part so creation if you can download consciousness into some artificial creation is that a hellish existence for that consciousness because it's no longer able to transition to the next phase of being and would you be
the transition to the next range phase of being as a biological entity and then realize like all my god what did i do with my consciousness i left it back there in the robot and who and who be conscious of yeah if there is no cuts yeah will what is it what yeah what is that thing what is the life what is the life that gets that transitions the life expires the the the light goes out and you pass over but yet this robot way sup it's you and it has no life span you know it has no whatever no sexual urges no need for community it's just this thing it has all your families i hope you do that i hope you don't design the future is what we have real problems if we designed it to mimic and replicate biological life we have real ms there i think this would have real problems if we didn't tune a that's true as well will the biological us would yeah we because we would
you know that's where the terminator comes as no need for us yeah but well everything that we are as far as what the our society structured as far as the our senses of fairness and love and compassion there all based on biological urges needs the need to for community is a strong urge to keep us all together so we stay alive longer we all things are a part of being a by logical entity and when we no longer are why would we engineer all those biological urges and thoughts and concepts into this carbon fiber creation i've heard the argument and i i think this is interesting too though that you know the need for community goes back to the very earliest moments of the universe you know in some sense you know when adams when adams emerged they emerged in collectives you know that they didn't just emerged as a single atom that they're all with
when a single thing emerges it emerges also with a collective you that's in that sense you know the sense of community is hardwired maybe into the universe itself but isn't also the sense of competition then because all bio article life is is wild race of things eating for things including vegetarians i mean the whole idea is is things grow and other things come along and eat them as they grow and there's no way around it life eats life you know and you can try to keep your biological footprint as small possible and do as little harm as possible but every step you take is killing life every time you who's your mouth you're killing bacteria i mean your you're when you wash yourself you're killing living things is a lot of weirdness to this this whole if that is tied to survival tied to birth death
and the prolonging of the species or the improvement of the species as it tries to prolong absolutely i mean it's a paradox to me but that's just part of what's cool about being alive is that it's not going to last and that's one of the big issues with the transhumanist movement this idea of transcending the biological limitations and living forever but then it's up it's like a movie that's one hundred hours long you know i don't want to see star wars for one hundred hours i want star wars for two hours because the of two hours it's awesome like that a great movie yay walk outside in the sunlight you talk about how great that moment was with your friends everybody's happy but star wars is goes on for infinity it fucking sucks know if for
a hundred years later still going to work speed and to bargain with laurel it like get me out of here this is terrible this movie sucks yeah you know why because it's boring i don't want to see you for a hundred hours i wanna see for two is that life itself the question i would ask is you know is it true there will be no limitations if we transcend our biological imitations or is it the case that they'll be new limitations that we can't fathom that become again and this this ties in with the question you know that we've asked ourselves you know with with the buddhist practice like is in light in an state or is it an ongoing ever unfolding process you know and i think if it if it is unfolding ever evolving process then that means there will always as long as there's stuff there always be limitations there always something that's not quite as perfect as it could be or that you know is is not quite
and so in that sense i would guess that i mean this is my guess is not that we were trained limitations altogether but that will transcend certain ones and then discover new ones and then the whole process of creative tension begin again at some new you know level it will be like oh shit like i i really he don't appreciate the fact that i can't have two insist simultaneously that i've did there's just one experience even if i can move between multiple rounds really rapidly i still can only have this one moment and experience you know then what hi i'm that's just a guess it may be one of the limitations well that's fascinating when you bring that up because that that does open up a different realm of possibilities if we can transcend the limitations of biology and then includes experiencing multiple things simultaneously or the abyss experience multiple lives like if we figure out a way to combine our consciousness or whatever we call our consciousness once we try and biological life and combine
in our minds so that we do experience the lives of multiple people if not the entire human race that's on this track experience it all simultaneously that this is beyond the realm of biological understanding that's where we of from this thing and become something that's far more complex and complicated in less and less one aspect of that decides it doesn't want to be merged into the hole and then you get warring factions warring factions warring factions are problems with much larger scale warring factions of transhumanism is trying to pull each other's batteries out and trying to hold each other into each other's version of utopia yeah right that's another issue right like what if there's like a mac version and a windows version and a non compatible and everyone
to figure out which one is going to be the betamax in which one you know betamax was better but vhs survived and you gotta pick the right team that's right yeah there's there's different yeah because it's not like there's going to be only one company that comes up with a transhumanist solution right right this is reminding me of like the fluidity of perspectives as i've trained in practice it's like the mind it has the capacity to take on me super multiple perspectives and how important that actually is in the world today to be able to take different points of view and take multiple perspectives and and not have the right way or the way so there's a lot of possibilities yeah what you said also this fascinating is this idea that we can't even really imagine what the potentials are because the potentials will cri
new potentials that were before that unrecognizable we didn't we didn't see them kind of like if you went back in time a few one hundred years ago and tried to explain to them the internet they'd be like what the fuck are you talking about if you went back before the printing press and tried to explain the internet trying to access google on your phone with voice commands or siri you know siri yeah try to explain that to people that live before printed type things like what are you even yapping about they would net to be able to wrap their head around it much like we will never be able to wrap our head around the possibilities once we transend the biological limitations the i've mind to me seems to be the most likely the hive mind yeah the idea that we're going to somehow another experience in experience each other on some very very broad scale i'm very large scale and i think we're kind of doing that with shit like facebook and
twitter and with in reaction on the internet i think what we're doing is dipping our toe in the ocean of connectivity oh yeah i like that phrase yeah because i think but we are slowly but surely devolve are dissolving these developing maybe that's true biologically divall right but dissolving these limitations of communication were slow really but surely expressing ourselves in ways and interacting in ways that didn't exist for an then when new things come along like are you aware of oculus rift i've got the dev kit two waiting for me in north care duncan has it my friend duncan has it and he just got back from experiencing porn indiana virtual reality first person porn and he goes it is the craziest thing you've ever experienced in your life like you are this other person having sex with someone
look down at your body you can look at your feet in your legs and and you can experience like sex intercourse with somebody that you don't feel it obviously but he's like this going to change the entire world we live in in the new version of it is insanely high definition right you know he keeps you gotta come over house and check out the fucking new rift man it's it's mind blowing he called me the day he saw it he's like he's like this bigger than the internet goes is bigger than anything that's ever been invented by people i've heard the same thing and i mean i think i'm most excited about is creating contemplative training invite in in in the rift you know what would it be like to completely you know like you said immerse yourself in a visual field you know with nothing outside of it and be able to so in some sense experience some of the same states that psychedelics bird bring on but you know directly through a technological interface
but my friends call it techno delix you know that the sense that the technology could produce some of the states as well well that's what mckenna's belief was sure about dmt is that he believed that if you could create a world that mimics exactly the psychedelic experience of dimethyltryptamine that he believed that in that state those same beings that you interface with when you take the psychedelic drugs would show up he had this like field of dreams type scenario if you build it they will come and that that would be the best case scenario for psychedelic intervention it wasn't getting a bunch of people take drugs it's like poo virtually this virtual that one day the state will into the virtual reality will achieve the the the the type of possibilities to achieve something like the
yeah and then and then the question becomes you know and i think mckenna said this you know what what world do we build you know what what virtual re these do we build and what values do we build into the program into them you know 'cause i don't think that ish he's going to go away we now have to ask those questions and and decide what we're building well again that's the big move with the real my fuck it's it's not even essentially that uh you know we're going to have a different biological body but we might live in reality that is indistinguishable from this reality that we can pick up and put on a scale the concept of virtual exist of some sort of existence in a simulation as it were you know the simulation is a weird word because simulation implies that it's not real but if it has all the consequences and all the feeling and textures and all the the interactions and interfaces that your regular life does as far as tactile as far
is heat sensitivity all the different aspects of our life we could recreate those exactly what is that if it's not life i don't if it is an experience and your taking in every single aspect of that experience exactly the same way you would take in this life what is it an if that's case how do we know we're not all the already in it how do we know this isn't an indistinguishable artificial reality that we have created and we're just opt into this the soccer i mean that's my presumption that here in artificial reality i mean i presume this is a virtual reality simulation why is that because it because stuff is happening and i don't know what's happening what do you mean by that i mean i guess we are watching nick bostrom
last night kind of layout the argument for this you know the virtual reality simulation hypothesis and he was basically saying you know one possibility is in we're in a virtual reality an ancestral simulation and then the other ability is that no technology note no civilizations get to the point technologically where they can produce this kind of technology they all vanished that's one possibility and then the third possibility was i'll see if i can remember i don't understand that possibility so so basically saying this is a real universe because no civilizations get so could be no civilization which gets to the point where it develops that capacity that virtual reality technology how is that even an option no civilization does it make could say no civilization has or no civilization has there are so because he's assuming that if if someone does do it this is getting kind of analytically deepa damn show right yeah that's true but
thank you saying like if if if if a hyper intelligent species and create a virtual reality they will create many of them right and so it's probably probability wise it's much more likely that we're in a simulation because of how many that could be created you could simulate infinite number the universe is through a like a hyper next generation computer so that was his argument for why we're probably in a simulation i would never say probably i i would agree in the sense that it's quite possible that if it is possible to one day achieve the sort of technical magical ability to create thing that's indistinguishable from this reality if it is possible and i assume that it's going to be possible if you hear about things like this new oculus rift and compare it to the quill they used to have to dip into ink to write things down that was the only way to distribute information yeah it's possible that one day we're going to achieve that but the
the thing that you have to take into consideration it's almost universally accepted that at least if this world is real and if this life that we are living is not a simulation it's universally accepted that this is the pinnacle of human information that we are at the we're at the apex right now and that we are at the very more information today we have more knowledge we have more of an understanding of our universe than any human beings before us ever have ever so if that's the case why wouldn't we assume that we just haven't reached it yet that seems to be far more likely than the disability that no civilization ever achieves it that's why it's not there yet well then we just it reached it yet yeah that seems way more likely i don't understand why anybody would reach a a contrary conclusion if all the evidence whether it's cultural like what sing old television shows and comparing them to the sophistication of today's weather
musical comparing old you know old beethoven music and all old music from the 50s like buddy holly type shit and comparing it to what people are doing today whether it's technology control which is super easy and clear to grasp and understand its there is no doubt whatsoever that were at the apex that as far as but we can observe that things are we have more ability were more competent were more more more able to alter our environment communicate etc far more far more complex than ever has been at any other time in human history that's been recorded that that we can access so that's the case why don't we just assume that were on this path to that why would we assume that no civilization has ever achieved it or can ever achieve it that doesn't i i don't assume that myself but i mean i think i want one thing i'd throw in the ring is you know that way of looking at our
street is sort of like a linear model right like we've kind of we've got this about you know the universe started this many billion years ago the big bang and then it sort of coalesced into whatever it coalesced into and eventually you know the merge a billion years ago and evolved to be what it is now and we're at this sort of at the sort of linear progression of evolution unfold but that story is only like two hundred years old so why would we assume that that story is accurate or that that way of looking at it i mean it seems more likely that in one hundred years while the completely different conception of what the universe is an and i wonder if part of that conception of part of it will breakdown and i'll tie this back into the contemplative tradition because this is something that breaks down in contemplative prayer this is the sense that time is this in the way we think it exists it exists in a linear kind of motion time
for the for the zen in the zen tradition with dogan is hola chronic like the holographic universe seen all these things are contained within themselves in this sort of a lot of these descriptions of consciousness you know all all times exist simultaneously and can be accessed simultaneously you know can be ax here there and and so in that sense you know the as the truck does the two traditional tech say the who does of past present and future all exist right now including ourselves and i know that would be a very different way experiencing time i experience it be a maybe a like occasions experience of that way but for the most part that is not the way i i i i tend to think this the linear thing that's like this got to start will have an end well the number one mindfuck of all time is infinity and being be thing that not only is like i think
especially when your children in a like you know the kids will say something like you know i win times infinity you know what what insanity the the the the big mine for of infinity is that not only is the concept of infinity possible to grasp but the parameters of that concept or so strange that if infant he is real if the universe is infinite the way it's been described is that every thing that has ever happened on this earth in the exact order has happened on other earths and infinite number of times including every single time line so right now the 1950s are going on an infinite number of times in the exact same order the 1950s went on in america the nineteen fifty on earth the 1950s are going on in an infinite number of times in the universe as are the 1960s as our new
one thousand eight hundred and sixty one december 21st as our december 22nd all those days are happening in the exact same order with the exact same events exact same words and every possible variation in between soda different words different events different forms of expression different languages arise different conca bears win those thing these are all happening simultaneously throughout the universe so everything is happening all at once so infinity is correct like what their concept of time being constant in happening all at once it is it this is happening all at once is just the container it in is infinite it's it is a fish pickle manifestation of this concept and ok in question to brief off that that i'd ask is is consciousness something that's happening
this biological being in this one very and of the universe or is consciousness something that move moves through this infinite potentiality and experiences it that's the mindfuck if do you wake up and you're in other you somewhere else in the multiverse and you know your decisions and choices allow you to travel from one patel to the next but where wherever you left off where you ever it maybe you are a smoker or a drink in the past or you had some sort of bad habits and you escape those bad habits but not every time line and then it i'm time nine this deadline well maybe not yet will after this conversation you know i mean i mean like the idea being that we're we believe that we're limited to this this is very same physical space in the universe because they
this is where we are every day but what if we transfer our consciousness from this one to the next one and they're indistinguishable from from each other physically to us but not their potential is very different and that in this since you are demention traveling and that's why we sleep so we could travel that's why people say sleep on it sleep on your problems man made go away in the morning and you're just going to transfer to another stage of you somewhere else in the universe or maybe this is more hippie bullshit damn it i hate it excuse myself rightly so of hippie bullshit but if even if infinity is correct and
not only do they believe that the universe is infinite but they believe there are infinite number of universes which is the ultimate ultimate mindfuck the fractal nature of reality itself being that every single galaxy which contains hundreds of billions of stars has a supermassive black hole and center of it which is exactly one slash two of one percent of the mass of the entire galaxy and if you pass through the that you will enter into another universe of hundreds of billions of galaxies each with a black hole in the center that has a portal to another universe and then the whole thing just keeps going on so there all the whole every universe is infinite and inside every universe is an infinite number of universes and that's how big it is that's why every time line that has ever existed every pot ability is all happening simultaneously all throughout the whole thing so those tibetans thought they sat in a cave and just explored their own minds there tripping balls they're probably taking something where they
they were trained then they rinse intrusion shooting on the dutch in history yeah that's the thing the endogenous drugs like your trip in even if you're not trip and like you you have to everybody does is no way around it you skew tripping we sleep an item should be doing last night yeah early yeah those are trips yeah absolutely there was a trip this is a trip yes i would definitely chip in right now well i think a lot of people listen their trip into this people right now on a subway going well will there everything is happening everywhere all the time like the car have any like no no no this is this is a unique moment this unique not not not really drop the concept of infinity then everything is happening right now yeah well for you but everything is happening right now but the concept of infant is undeniable mathematically that's the problem is that like you can't just ignore like all you have to do is go outside and look up he's you go out
look up at night you see stars realize those are just an impossible distance and those are the neighbors those are the ones that are really close and if he stood on one of those stars and looked out into the distance you would see stars that were equally far away that seemed equally ridiculous to try to reach and if you got to those there's no end you just you're going to keep going and going and going so all the evidence of infinity at least of the concept of great great distance being outside of the realm of understanding is all it's right in front of us yeah every night in a moment yeah at the at the same time at the there's a way of experiencing infinity that isn't about distance it's about consciousness and in any being you know this conscious experience we're having right now the room that we're seeing the sounds they were hearing the body so stations that were having all of these
also arising in our experience right in our awareness and the idea of infinite distances thought that arises in my awareness and so in some sense there's only this awareness there's only this experience that we've ever had and in that sense you know the idea the concept of of infinity as a distance is a great distance drops away and there is just this there's just this one moment that's happening i think that's what you pointing to and there's an infinite quality to it in terms of that that the consciousness itself is infinitely present infinitely here i don't know how to describe it actually the consciousness is infinitely present throughout the whole thing it it's undeniably the fact that we are conscious you know just like you said the infinity is undeniable con
this is undeniable you know this is happy you can do it though because there's levels of consciousness right there's people they are conscious that are just there apes there's one through this life drinking and walking in the walls like they conscious as well and is that consciousness like a very limited consciousness and consciousness expands what's the what's the ongoing theme talking about meditation and meditative practices in the lighten meant achieving these psychedelic states through consciousness adjustment or consciousness manipulation like there's levels and layers to the whole thing yeah there there are levels and layers and there is the unified field of consciousness which no matter what is arising in it and how simple or complex it is it's just what it is though why is really strange to me that the concept of say
pull biology as opposed like complex by logical life that understand itself simple biology of visual cells or you know than multi celled organisms and then the concept of a being that's aware of itself and can communicate over vast distances like human beings extrapolate that one thousand years plus whatever it is from now do we have the ability to do the same thing with consciousness throughout the entire universe itself like is uh our ability to communicate over vast distances and to communicate with each other is this just a beginning stage and is never ending process of dissolving boundaries where they actual boundaries of space itself no longer exist and we can interface with intelligent life that is figured out the same sort of shit
everywhere else in the world the like universe wide web or so yeah exactly yeah if the universe is infinite and most science i agree it is are they believe it is many do i mean it's so those things while you have the observable universe right which is like fourteen billion light years or something like that and then we talked about with the big bang like it all came out of what like mckenna had the best take on the big bang he's like so science is essentially saying allow us this one miracle in will explain everything and that's really what it is the whole little universe came from something smaller than the head of a pin how uhm let me get back to you on that but it did and because of that all this stuff here what is that a miracle uh as i wouldn't know use that word you know we click yes yes it is that's a fucking
miracle man if we come back from the dead after three days that ain't shit the you know first came out of the head of a pin you don't think that's more impressive than a dude coming back from the dead the guy coming back dead clearly a miracle can we agree on that walking on water clearly a miracle right water into wine the motherfucker made a miracle right the universe itself is a miracle allah for stories about it are miracles yes and whether or not those are just fabre the same way the ancient hawaiians the polynesians talked about the gods stitch in the stars together with thread you know maybe that's what our concept of the big bang is just our antiquated notion or are rather primitive notion of something that's really beyond our capacity to understand yeah that's the that's the mind fuck yeah it's our myth it's our uh this that's our zeus that's are you know that's our odin is like the big bang
and one day they laugh at us these fucking die they thought that the universe is smaller than the head of a pin and that whatever whatever reason man it just blew up and became the universe yeah one day soon probably yeah maybe right maybe or at least in terms of reference it would be similar to galileo to us yeah you know galileo thinking that universe was not centered around the earth and everybody going watt fucking crazy this is like a big form point of contention and now it's you know personally agree that galileo was correct and everybody else is being silly ok very well covered day when someone proposes something far more radical than the big bang that proved to be true and everybody and everybody else is like wait wait wait what were you saying hold on hold on hold on
like have you ever seen that there's an an audio of think his name is gates and william gates the guy who had the concept of similar he is a simulation theory that he presented to neil degrasse tyson yeah that was the president's scientific advisor obamas advisor for awhile was he really william gates yeah no kidding if it's the same guys the same guy that found the computer code in straight sort of like a samuel l jackson look alike yes that's him that's him and the person that he has with neil degrasse tyson where he says they round self correcting computer code at the in the heart of string theory yeah and then neil degrasse tyson goes way way way ok ok ok i want to hear this again like say this one more time you found self can correcting code i'm i'm not sure if i understand what you're saying pull the video because that's
we watch this for the first time last night oh really this is one of my favourites i got taken down i gotta find out that link got taken down is on reddit god damn commies who's doing that take why would you take decked out just self correcting computer code correcting good code string theory gates let's say yeah that's it strange computer code to discovered concealed if you just go to that i found it just do what i just did ok strange computer code discovered concealed in superstring equations
there's a little bit a non since the beginning for the first thirty seconds like weird downtown tunnel here put images that are behind your head right now these are pictures of equations i've been for the last fifteen years trying to answer to the kinds of questions that my colleagues if it had been freezing and what i've come to understand is that there are these incredible pictures that contains all the information of a set of equations that are related to string theory and it's even more bizarre than that because we need then try to understand these pictures you find out that buried in them or computer codes just like the type that you find in the browser when you go surf the web and so i'm left with the puzzle of trying to figure out whether i live in the matrix or not you're blowing my mind at this moment so you're saying are you saying your attempt to understand the fundamental operations of nature lead
due to a set of equations that are indistinguishable from the equations that dr search engines in browsers on our computers that is correct so the way i'm still what i have to just be silent for so you're saying as you dig deeper you find computer code writ in the fabric of the cosmos into the equations that we want to use to describe the cosmos yes computer code computer code strings of bits of ones and zeros it's not just sort of resembles computer code you're saying it is computer code it's not even just is computer code it's a special kind of computer code that was invented by a scientist name claude shannon in the 1940s that's what we find very very deeply inside the equations that up current string theory and in general
systems that we host they are super symmetric ok time to go home i think we're going to so are you saying we're all just there's some entity that programmed the universe and we're just expressions of their code well i didn't say that the matrix do something but you said some of those codes are showing on the screen behind you right now they don't look like codes but these pictures which we call adinkra's or a graphical representations of sets of equations that are based on codes so this is in fact to answer your question more directly i have in my life come to a very strange place because i never expected that
movie the matrix might be an accurate representation of the place in which i live there give you an argument that we don't live in the making very good please quick very simple argument is a property that the real world right down here has that no mathematical equation has no solution of an equation has the note that no abstract checked has here in the real world it is always some moment which is one of the theories of passing moments in a mathematical equation doesn't have a flow of time in it it just is this means that leak well when i need him listening to me that the the the the ancient metaphysical fantasy that we call our guest mathematics cannot be true because in a world that was the gas mathematics it would be no
moments of time wise in their math as a function of time so we solve differential equations but then you lay the solution out you're mistaking you keep using the word is and i'm talking about the word describe you the whole drive is fine but then let me let me finish please since we started with my discussion the point is that you know it's fun to talk about some deep metaphysical essence that sits behind physics before some of us it's about trying to find the most accurate way to describe where we live so my statement is that in the description of our universe that it's a super symmetrical universe which we're going to test in the lhc if you believe that description i can show you the presence of these codes that's my statement i'm fucked
i can't i can't go on showed over what do you say that you listen to what these guys have just described and talked about i disagree with the one guy saying that because we live in this moment and this is like this linear pattern to things that it can be a map medical equation that's not true that doesn't make any sense that like saying if there is a car in the car is driving on a road that has been created by people if it's you know it's going one distance if it's traveling that it can't possibly be an artificially created environment that doesn't make any sense to me it's like you're traveling through this thing because you're experiencing the now and it's progressive and you know the past and you're looking forward to the future and you
being in your in this month that doesn't mean it's not a mathematic representation what comes to mind is that a lot of times in our formulas are mathematic equations and i'm not a mathematician it's at the mine tendency is to lock down on the variables but then it locks it down so it it's constantly changing we mean by that meaning that we had there's a tendency of mine to like to go into concepts as if they were solid and as if they were fixed in any kind of time that we do that we lock down the possibility so if we can relax and to what ever it's red
resenting than that representation can continue to be fluid so therefore there's a lot of space and a lot of room to continue and the present moment is not just one thing i just don't understand the argument that if if mathematics our if if it's i guess he's trying to say in a sense that because we're we experience individual moments we have this moment we're in this moment and that is progressive that this wouldn't be the case if it was a mathematical equation that doesn't make any sense to me maybe i'm just dumb but it seems to me that that leaves out the possibilities of yes you could do that our yes you could it could be a math michael equation that you are experiencing or it could be that this idea of this computer code that they're finding is just simply a lot
so many other codes that we found and things the that indicate that nature has some sort of a pattern to it like the feminazi sequence like you know the idea that these moods that exist in nature there they don't exist because this is artificial but they exist because nature essentially runs on mathematics so is nature artificial visit it i don't think anything is artificial well you know it's everything is yeah well everything is natural this is like everything on earth including like artificial chemicals we are produced from things that are naturally occurring on earth and human be things are a natural creation of the earth or by logical life itself in all the bike six of human beings including things that we consider to not be natural r natural just like a beehive is a natural creation of
she you know nuclear waste is the natural creation of the inquisitive human being it's they're not nap but they are natural is everything is natural they don't exist outside of our manipulation but we are part of nature so essentially all of our creations are in fact natural i i make this our so often to try to undercut the notion that using technology to develop your ability to contemplate the universe and consciousness that that somehow is unnatural is that all the time but i'm thinking you know you could you could say the same thing like everything is artificial everything is generated from something else you know the big bang you know that came from of the mathematical formulas in the starting conditions came from some non physical place outside of this universe and so therefore there artificial from perspective but i think that's the same saying the same thing as everything is natural
everything is artificial and everything is natural yeah right everything is natural i think we this idea of natural and artificial that we describe with our foods you know we describe it with the things that are healthy and unhealthy about what we've created in our culture but it's when you using those same terms to describe human creation and then start understanding the nature of human innovation and creativity in the first place like boy i don't know that's natural or not how could it be any less natural than an octopus changing its shape to hide or changing its skin tone to blend in with the environment is not natural sin official look the octopus is created nor to camouflage itself from predators or prey what do you think people
are really pointing to and they say something's unnatural like what do you think they're really getting at a really trying to say it's bad it's bad yeah we're going to go back in time go back to chopping wood engine and it's bad according to what like according what set of values or what conception of what the is good in the universe right i think we're constantly instantiating are utopias through you know what we how we live in what we do and the we're constantly deluding ourselves into thinking our conception of the universe is the correct conception and then at but but until like we can't help it like i cannot help but say you know i think this the most important thing compassion wisdom you know like i've got my own conception of what's support but is there a the most important
is the word most important the problem with the definition of most important problem because what is most important to you is not most important to others right like it's a very personal idea what's most important what's most important starving people right now is getting them food and water right what's most important to the president is figuring out what to do both israel and gaza what's most important you know he's like what is most it is a very personal thing yeah and yet there seem to be patterns you know like people have certain values and and share those values with others and there's a collective code that seems to be running as i'll yeah and again boils back to what what is that collective code what's the purpose of it all to facilitate society civilization and to move forward with the progression of innovation to
become robots to figure out a way to get out of here and the trend is obviously there right the symbiotic connection that we have to you know you don't want to leave your phone behind you want to keep keep that sucker on you if you leave behind you feel like you left a part of you back there yeah i got i left my hand you know i gotta go back and get my hand means similar yeah yeah maya outer outer cortex yeah there's there's something weird to that yeah the sims something we're to are our desire that this marshall mcluhan's idea but where the sex objects of the machine world that what we're doing is we're giving birth like a caterpillar becoming a fly were unaware of our actions really all
we being a part of this transition from the monkey body into this new transcendent thing but then then the big question is what is that and what's the purpose of that and if we do become that does just sit does it at point moving now i'm just going to sit here what's the point in innovating does no need what's the point in creating new ones to what do more of nothing fuck it to sit there so there so we show up on some planet someday and there's like super complex artificial beings that were created by by let's beings and then they just stopped and they all just sat around waiting for the next stage of existence and it never came in buddhist cosmology actually it's described that way that really yeah actually the there six realms in the buddhist cosmology and one of the realms is the god realm and the god realm the gods literally just abide in this formless awareness for like eons
dancing eons but at some point the story goes something changes and they die they do have they also are born and die those forms rome's aren't aren't minute and so that at some point they they come out of it and they die then they get reported to some other realm well if you stop and think about the birth and death of stars and planets of these artificial beings live planets they have a life time i've span whether they like it or not yeah because the very source system they exist and is dependent upon that star burning a finite amount of fuel right whether it's five hundred billion years or whatever the hell your stars got its tank when the suckers out it's gonna super nova and that's a wrap son there's no more artificial intelligence on that rock that spinning around in space and the call
sin is does the artificial intelligence that exists recognize that and feel the need to protect itself from this finite existence by building a space ship and traveling physically traveling from dimension to dimension or traveling within the dimension of consciousness and looking for a resolution there but doesn't have consciousness once it becomes artificial what is kind is consciousness purely something the universe is created and we can't recreate how i doubt that really yeah we'll be able to recreate consciousness i think if we come in and this is just to kind of gas but i think if we create a suitable substrate for consciousness consciousness will appear and that's based on my assumption that in a consciousness appears where
where there something happening there some sense of it of a hacker into something well it depends on what we're calling consciousness yeah i yeah level way like just raising awareness they just kind of deal where it is like being in this room of of of sight of sound so animation and even insects of consciousness nonsense and alford wait north said you know he he sort of prison and that even atoms have a most fundamental sense of consciousness that he called pre henschen i don't know this is kind of like a pantheistic perspective but i i everything is imbued at the most fundamental level with consciousness but that's that's probably because i've been spent my explain conscious you when you say everything do you mean like physical objects as well like a desk like this is to ask of consciousness yeah look at the most basic level some former but the non measurable so completely just
copyright medical consciousness is nice yeah consciousness isn't by definition immeasurable you you can't measure justice because it's not a quantity right why would you assume that in objects possess it then it's it's sort of just comes from s comes from the deepest states of meditation that i've experienced this kind of sense of knowing that everything is at the fund most fundamental level consciousness itself and said that there is thing outside of consciousness you know adams could exist outside of consciousness is just it's just a felt sense i guess it's hard to just dr like i don't have like a really solid argument for it and even if something appears solid and it's a very male you know microscopic level we can see things moving around like even though at this table feel solid it's
completely solid right of course yeah every atom is mostly air right and the base rather yeah so in a sense like you know i've had experiences to where the concentration becomes so strong that things to start to break down and everything seems to be dissolving and weakened acting in solving in reconstructing weber this in just just the perceptions of your own mind is in this is just the the your your mind has this ability to perceive it its surroundings and its environment and in meditation you're altering the pram you're changing the influences your you're changing the physical state the flow all of the neurotransmitters and all these different things are changing how you view the environments but you're not really changing the environment at all it i guess it depends on how you look at it 'cause no i mean i'm not changing it and then yes i am changing it
doing this particular practices you changing it in that you change your perceptions match up perceptions change the way you interface with the yeah i think this goes back to the paradox of like it it is very paradoxical yeah like the paradox of you know do we can we scribe this from the outside objectively and like that's the most to perspective or do we describe it as as the subject of conscious experience of it in in which more which is more true and i keep going back to like you can't reduce one to the other conflate one to the other entire otherwise you basically you're just sort of propping up a particular perspective as the ultimate truth i don't know i think i there's something completely disenchanted about seeing everything as physical objects and and this is a kind of just like hallucination to make us feel better so we can continue to propagate i think there's something fun only wrong about that on the level of being a conscious being
yeah i also see you know the tendency for people to conflate to their own experiences with the external universe as being like highly problematic two that's a funny word disenchanted it's a funny way of because it is you know it is kind of the way your perception of it is that it's almost like this the view of it this is beautiful fairy view of it x it more exciting and so like to think of them as to think of it more still terms or more you know more what the word i would use just more clearly defined terms it's like not as fun does that make sense does
it's also i think like emily was saying like the moment we solidify reality then like we lose the background you know we lose the sense that we don't act the completely now the every story we've ever told you know as a species has ended up being wrong at some level you know it's not it's not actually did like the big bang you know at some point we're going to realize that story was the best story we could come up with to describe the evolution of the physical universe or the development of it or whatever but some point we're discover something that just blows our minds again and then got to come the new story that can make sense of that and we're going to get solidified about that we're think that's actually the way it really is and so i think there's some about certainty and really thinking we have it worked out that becomes problematic at some level
that's kind of the beauty of existence right is that there's a lot of mystery to this thing yeah like half of half of that money exactly and yes a jet met like it's part of that comes from like i feel like people can get disconnected from there how and i can be airy fairy too but it's rich it's that israel said to be up in the mind and the brain and then forget that there is there is the feelings and the tenderness and the vulnerability in a in a positive way because it lacks a lot of power in the vulnerability so there some sort of balance that i think it comes in to play from some of the eastern traditions and then some of the western traditions because i i feel that balance to and the rooms were talking between you know opening more into the mystical part of things and then also you know needing the concept meaning the rational mind needing the science
and where is that balance in our modern world i don't i'm not sure where is the balance in the modern world to the modern world is essentially without balance that's the and criticism of it is that we're raping the earth and torturing our planet robbing it of its resources and polluting the oceans and all that jazz that there isn't a balance to it all and that the this is just what it is for you you live this life and your exceptions in your ideas are essentially what flavor it for you and if you if you choose to mr no nonsense you still die you know you live you die and that's it he solved blind spot yeah you still limitations yeah most certainly and the the the concept of consciousness in this way is more empowering or at least gives you a better feeling about
life that you're living and may enhance that experience may make the experience a more pleasurable ride and may impact others around you because i'm here and everything else yeah we'll definitely made you know when i'm around people that are super positive i feel better that's undeniable i don't understand it but i do you know inherently this is like a part of you that grasps it but it's undeniable and when you're around pessimistic people it's a huge drag that's a huge ride to be around super negative people like i'm that's this really negative girlfriend wants it when i broke up with i remember dropping her off and driving way going thank my god i'm free she is what if there was a side of things that was negative she would find it and just start packing at it an even about that man it was brutal was brutal and that you know if you can find the opposite of that find someone
is always got a good taylor k this is what it is but from here what we can learn to never do that again and so this is an awesome blessing in that we've learned a lesson from this and we're gonna move forward and you know we have a still of love and community and friendship and has a lot of people look at things that way and there's so much more fun to be around it just makes the experience of life itself more exciting and in that sense what what people are in with buddhism or tm or spending a lot of time in isolation tanks or it's sort of a workaround for biology sort of a framework for developing your consciousness as you manage your biology to make sense yeah i think that's a valid with to
we might have run out of mind fucks in this podcast i think we we hit a wall self correcting computer code that james gates and neil tyson might have thrown us into a wall this is how do you guys get involved in all this stuff like wood what did you like gravitate towards this as a young person just thing you discovered early on and sort of slowly but surely it became a massive part of your life for i think for for both of us that's probably true i don't speak family but a first for me i grew up with hippy parents into a new ag parents and so the notion of meditation and consciousness was was kind of part of the dialectic growing up where'd you up i grew up asheville north carolina love that place that's where from yeah that's where we live now you guys live their place so
awesome i don't tell people about it so awesome when i was there i was walking down the street i was like this is like doesn't exist in anywhere else the words getting believe me it is getting exam ads and now it's really out now it's really out this is amazing that's amazing amazing town it's quite interesting yeah we love it it's so unusual like i was there with a buddy will duncan other body in mind we were walking on the street and go into this restaurant and when they went to this bar is like where else is there a place like this it's like this small town of really like minded folks very open minded very progressive but very small was the population there 100k i think is so it's boulder sized that's which is another similar town like that yeah it's very but you guys are like tucked up in the mountain
we're in a holler we're in a holler we like it yeah it's amazing how do you get there i grew up just outside of their little town called mars hill and i grew up two hours away in wilkesboro small town seem to grow attended towards astral now well we we actually lived in boulder for about a decade really yeah we were working she was working in europa university i went to school there all that is that freaky hippy university right buddhist inspired that we call it the buddhist inspired harvard i have a class in zen flower arrangement ikebana yeah i didn't take that one but like this is hilarious you get an accredited class and zen flowering the only place that i know of yeah yeah we it's also kind of similar similar kind of yeah the boulder mall certainly does an another place that's tucked in the mountains and it's like there's
something about mountains are so humbling like you just looked like you can't be that imp morton are you seeing what i'm saying like your daily life and troubles they they are balanced in perspective by the images that you're seeing the most spectacular version means of art that nature created now the mountains are to me like snow covered recovered whatever they are seeing or a lake at the bottom of a canyon and just like here's stunning works of art and the just the sheer vast magnitude of them like the rockies forces people this sort of humility oh yeah sort of like beach towns no like wire beach town so why is everybody so chill by the beach will look at the fucking ocean man who taking you so seriously look at that thing is fast you can't see the end and it's all water and it's moo
open up and back in any point in time it could just rise up in one thousand mile high swell and take out the higher planet yeah that's right yeah there's something about nature that's like super important the people that live in a place where they don't get a chance to see it you know new york city in a sense is humbling in its own way because he said everything is natural you know human beings creating cities or not much different than a beehive it's just we're way better at making shit than bees are so we make skyscrapers but when you're in manhattan like la is there a staying at this hotel we're pretty high up and you know you open up your window and you look out the window like oh this is crazy
this is so futuristic and bizarre we're in the middle of it like all the buildings are around us we're seeing all these people moving around inside of their windows some of 'em i'm sure with binoculars and telescopes and shit peering out all the different stories that are playing out in the various little cubicles and boxes around them absolutely yeah but i think that the at least to me the most uh p full version of that those you the kind of imagery is the natural version the real natural version as far as like non man created i should say the mountains there's something about it like specially like a place like asheville and or place like boulder sort of like just defined by its environment so the buddhist geeks thing one of the things that i thought it was interesting that you said that i find to is that you
start doing it and people start getting connected to it and then you feel like kind of stuck in it like in that like boy i have a responsibility now people are enjoying this yes getting maybe hopefully some value from it yeah well it's a very least being entertained on a bus you know or on a plane or or what have you you stuck in a commute at the very least that yeah how often does do it we do a podcast once a week so we do like a interview like this sir conversely like this probably once a week now when you do those do you prepare for them like you have like a theme or do you have like questions that you lay out beforehand and usually yeah usually it's with a with a person or group that you know we're exploring a particular topic like now we've explored a lot around the interface technology and buddhist practice various intersection points of how buddhism is sort of interfacing with ecology in science and technology and you know various aspects of culture
so will usually kind of go into one of those intersection points and explore with someone who's really been working at the interface and so who is in some ways the most informed and in terms of their ignorance about what's going on at the interface and just kind of explore it and see what happens and can you give me example of like one of the recent episodes we do that yeah sure so recently i talked to nuro scientist named david vago who's at harvard and he's a contemplative nuro scientist jake davis who's a buddhist card the philosopher and we sort of explored some of the recent work around finding covering a neuroscience of enlightenment and they've been sort of working with the question is there a neuroscience of enlightenment can we see what enlightenment and quotes looks like in the brain and is that even possible philosophically like is enlightenment one thing or is it many things and so we really just went through and
sports from their ideas around enlightenment what is it what options are they using found in their in their in their research 'cause david's been working a lot with folks like shinzen young who has been meditating for the years and who you know has a really kind of complex of meditation and mindfulness practice and it's something that he designed to be able to be scientifically studied so they've been sort of pudding advanced meditators various f mri machines and sort of seeing what happ and they do various kinds of tasks seeing what happens when they have these kind of peak moments you know what actually is occur in the in the nervous system seeing if they can come up with a model to describe that nurse quickly that's fascinating the f mri is really interesting stuff oh yeah have you ever been in one it's so weird no no it's like a shamanic drum beating through your head really
it's really bizarre and when i when we got in there for one of these meditation studies afterwards i was like are they taking into account the fact the f mri machine itself is like a completely altered state experience right it's just a huge magnet urine i've been in an mri before a similar here that dung dung dung dung dung some this one had like the one we went to like had i mean what sounded like drum beats and all kinds of weird stuff i mean i was wow yeah i mean i don't know if it's like no that's what it sounded like yeah it was weird yeah i talked to a neuro scientists and they were explaining that there's some issues with f mri's where they're trying to use them for crime investigation an they're being used people who don't understand the limitations of the technology so someone was accused of a crime in india accused of murder in convicted by an f mri result because the fm our eyes showed functional knowledge of the crime scene oh yeah
exactly and she was very concerned about this because her perceptions of it were you could buy reviewing the case itself and by reviewing the information you could give someone functional knowledge of a crime scene without them actually having been there while the crime scene was going on and that so if you could read that there's functional knowledge of a crime scene it doesn't mean that the person is actually been there while the crime was being played out mean there's people that have functional knowledge of all sorts of place is like mount rushmore and put you know if you play that in some folks head that have like deeply studied history and paying a lot of ten you might be able to show some sort of a functional knowledge of the area itself if they have a only if they have a vested interest in studying this like they're being accused of a murder you know you would this would be a lot of intensity and emotional connection to that
things is when it comes to technology and and the understanding of the human brain there so there of all thing right now in front of us so rapidly yeah it's true i mean just recently in the contemplative neuroscience field they discovered that when you're not doing anything that is like your baseline state that you are in fact doing something and then they just sort of that was one of the big insights came out of a contemplative neuroscience was that the default mode network of the brain is actually the selfing network it's the network that is constantly constructing the sense of identity and referencing oneself even when you're not doing anything so that you know the assumption prior to that was just like when you're not doing anything nothing is happening but actually a lot of stuff happening it's like yourself program is running basically yeah what what well we don't understand what the fuck is is that self program that's the problem how much that
just keep in the heart beating how much of that is maintaining a normal state without freaking out and ripping your clothes off in a traffic and what causes you to freak out and rip your clothes off and run into traffic and do you find that having these shows and doing all these podcasts giving you like a window that you would have normally not had before totally totally i can't separate now out the experience of talking to all these people and exploring some of the topics that we explore from my experience now how i understand the world it's just the so intertwined i'm sure you can kind of relate to that yeah that's why i wanted to ask you because it becomes like a part of your life is not just about having these conversations but about broadcast in these conversations and exploring them not just through your own curiosity but through trying to
either illuminate or figure out a way to express these ideas across where you think they're going to be accepted or understood the best understood is probably the best way to describe it like that way it's going to interface with the most amount of people yeah i mean sometimes i think it's one of the most grandiose things to do is start a podcast to start you know to be a media person and i sometimes wonder myself service salt just being he started the podcast seven years ago so i've kind of been on the periphery of it and just watching it from the outside perspective too it's fairly interesting to see how like his podcasts and the stuff that he talks about in his own development as i don't know if you can relate to it has really come across in each episode as its and now we have an archive of seven years of like development of his own understanding and then how
everything just kinda coldly converges now are really exploring the convergence of the beautiful thing about a podcast is that you don't have someone telling you what the subject of today's going to be you don't have someone telling you this is what you should be interested in you know you you find these unique individual visions because of podcast some of them are ridiculously stupid and some of them are awesome you know and what's ridiculous too to me is awesome to someone else and that's the kind of the beauty of of podcasting and it goes along with what we're talking about i think when it comes to technology social media is like the interfacing with ideas the ability to exchange information it's all sort of radically changing right in front of us and you know podcasting is just a part of that absolutely how how do you like you're gonna take this thing into the future do you have any plans for under you trying to expand it are you are you you're nodding search your virtual reality is next i think i got your stock
stop podcasting well i mean well that could happen we'll see if that's popular but easier no i think you know for us you know we're doing but is key to the media project but we're also you know meditation teachers only work a lot with other folks then we've trained in a with with various buddhist teacher so for us we are wanting to make a space both for these conversations but also for people to practice together in virtual space so that's a lot of our folk slightly is on how to reinvent the buddhist practice tradition for the 21st century and a big part of that working on now is doing retreats online you know periods intensive immersive practice that happen in the context of your life and also you know we're building were calling the buddhist geeks dojo which is going be kind of describing it as an early version of the matrix for training your mind the buddhist geeks dojo the buddhist geeks tote
and what does that entail what's going to be it'll it'll be at least a place for people to meditate together to talk about what's happening in their practice which basically is there life and to find a community of fo so we're kind of on a similar journey of of cultivating certain kinds of states of mind and certain understandings why buddhism no like why not why call it something is that work i mean you're talking about rebelling against buddhism right yeah well we've rebelled we've thought about this a lot and we prevailed against aaron rebellion currently interested yeah i mean it's like we don't call it buddhism will call it something else and then there's a free work around that so it's like i can't get outside of the framework no matter how a framework no matter how hard i try and my training and has been with some really awesome people in the buddhist tradition and i'm not going to be able to just let that you know it's always going to impact me and influence me
and there's something about the flavor of that tradition and what it reveals hippies hitman is changing and it's changing it changing changing in what way you guys are changing it a little because of technology and you're interfacing with technology i mean yeah i mean we're just a small part of it i mean how else is it changing i mean science is coming in really influencing it the mindfulness movement is very much influence you could call mindfulness a form of secular buddhism i mean only the guy that had that had the most impact on the mindfulness movement jon kabat zinn was decades studying buddhism in india and asia so i mean those things are very big shifts in terms of how it's being practiced and the context that it's being held well that's funny that you said this secular because most people would consider buddhism
to be some sort of a or maybe one of the only secular religions and it's it's true in some cases and in other cases it's it's like a lot of other religions there's a lot of what's the creepiest forms of buddhism there must be thrown of us creepiest for feel good what was most dogmatic the most ideology filled i mean i must be right there i think b crumb yoga no i mean there are lots of forms that you know that are very rigid in terms of how they're taught and what to believe when you do them i mean i think that's hard to escape in a certain way 'cause when people fine and it was really powerful and works they get really fixated on it right like wearing orange robes yeah dick wearing orange robes although that's not really that popular more at least in its current form in the west at monasticism is not definitely not taking off
that's one way it's changing also it's moved away from an ass decision tord this more kind of late centered life that being integrated with everyone else being integrated in your life you know how it is i mean that's i think that's true of most religions that are doing well it's like they've they've moved away from the transcendent and toward the imminent you know they've reconceiving divinity has something that exists in your life as it is it's not something that's beyond your in some way that that something's wrong with your life your your you know your body that you know this is a sinful terror vessel that is completely limited i mean and it is in one sense but in another sense like that's just that's intermediary insight from you know from my experience the confining aspects of calling it buddhism now like what what is the the pitfalls of that besides hippies definitely get some problematic it not that i love hippies don't get me wrong yeah same hippies come in many shades there's legit hippie and then there's like
really annoying hippies that just sort of you know the used hippie framework to just be annoying sure i mean i'll i'll say one can find anything that um buddhism is a religion i mean at least in terms of how we understand religion is a tax free is it tax free yeah idea three exemption the same way that other religions too we do we honestly don't don't that you could you could do that yeah you'll give chase down don't do it it's really really hairy we don't want to pay taxes they go oh really time to take a little closer
could the buddha's geek organization yes see what you do in on saturday night yeah i think with anything like buddhism i mean you inherit but using that framework we inherit all you know we hear it and so there's a lot about religions and spirituality in general that is not that i don't personally like you know like what so i think that there is a there's a tendency to project i mean you brought in the word divinity so i'll use that like to project our divinity onto the teachers are on to some sort of system and it can be dis empowering for a lot of people people can get trapped and beliefs that you know have been carried forward for you know years and centuries that the art isn't forwarding anymore and so that sense like by choosing to go under buddhism were also choosing to you know work on how we can evolve how we think about it and one thing that i really like is
the is the practices themselves the mind training aspect of it that's what's been really beneficial to me and that's one of the reasons why i've chosen to continue because of its impact the mind training aspects of it like what
what what what do you think is like the tangible benefits of this mine training aspect over that you personally experience personally i can say personally i feel much much more much more open and much more generous compassionate there's a lot more freedom i can get stuck on the smaller sense of self meaning you know i have these thoughts of like unworthiness or self contraction hatred or any of those you know what biological kind of urges and at the same time if they're so transient and they're so not who i am and i see that very very clearly that it kind of diminishes in just a second i'm on the good days sometimes it's more intense and i've learned to really work with that and learn how to
he clearly what's happening so that i have the freedom to really choose how to live my life in a much more full way to really is like a work around for a lot of the biological falls i think so i think it's a way of working with the situation as it is and and making them most of it if someone came along with another name though like buddhist like the word the this of someone came along with another name for a similar practice do you think that it would be accepted they have yeah i think there's some i think the buddhist tradition especially in the west has been modified like much of mindfulness based stress reduction i mean some of these different techniques are taking from the ancient techniques at their something about grooves in consciousness and patterns like you were talking about earlier so by going under buddhism work
end of riding in those grooves and they're not all bad yeah i know there's something i don't have my own experience and this it's a little embarrassing in a secular context to talk about this because it's weird to say you know for whatever reason i just fell in love with the the forms and the and the the ritual and the you know and just the feel of the aesthetic of buddha i for ship for some reason i just immediately felt a sense of being at home when i went to the first like meditation retreat an why is there practicing and i was like oh wow and i felt this deep sense of connection with that particular form and never reason it just like it works for me and it's unlocked a lot very rap
lee that i don't know that would have been a otherwise possible if i was trying to do some sort of practice that i didn't really connect with that much you know something about just the love of the foreman the aesthetic itself that i can't really explain except that i've always liked asian stuff and the inclining of the mind towards awakenings are awakening you know that framework and itself as it's an interesting inclination so you just like we had to search for the holy grail we mentioned that earlier the inclination towards some kind of inquire into okay and the question presents of earlier like who who it who are way who is this and i've found that the techniques and the forms have been really revealing in that way the deification in the teacher is a real issue though right there really does become an issue with any time any person is the distributor of knowledge or for may shun they take this position yes an elevated challenging and i think the
this teachers you know we're learning as we become hopefully a little better as teachers is that the best teachers use that situation to help people kind of gain the confidence in the own experience and to be able to know freedom for themselves you know through their own practices of paying attention and being with things an in since the the best teachers are the ones that make themselves irrelevant and the best teachers his teachers make themselves completely irrelevant i think and process can be empowering in itself yeah everyone so com everyone involved ever get into like death metal or driving too fast or yeah i driving too fast do you got a hold there's a whole movement in the in the west of dot the dharma punk switcher dharma punk the dharma punks who are based here in la they were like basically group of folks that my friends there yeah
the reference and you know their whole you know they have like major house parties with huge music bands and do they do drugs that movement not really well i think a lot of them had done a lot of drugs and so part of the movement is actually about being able to be ok without the drug i think so that's part of the reason a lot of people are attracted to that movie what about drinking we drink man yeah i have a glass of wine the little bit or do you get hammered so if someone's at the bar and they pass your shot just don't like it feeling yeah it doesn't feel good i feel like crap afterward definitely after you know it's not the afterwards part like how do you feel before how do you feel daring the hyphal afterwards like if i take the average of that i don't feel very good so i don't tend to yeah that's personal
into bukowski used to get upset at stoners duncan and i were talking about this last night because they didn't have to pay for the experience they did have the hangover the blue cast be felt like you earned your drunk with the hangover loved that he there's a there's a hang over from being stoned it's just a little more subtle really you feel like that yeah sure we feel like to hang over for being stoned as i don't feel it at all it's a it's a quality of kind of a little bit slow genus of the mind and of an inch recent self referencing talk for me like of of like more like subtle fear and anxiety and and self preoccupation that's what i've noticed that's fascinating like in what way in in the sense that the described like you know after i've smoked marijuana like during its
it's an insightful opening experience but after there's a sense of kind of being groggy and sludgy and like everything is like less clear and less open than before and so there's a quality of kind of like like contraction that comes after the expansion so that's what i would describe it it's it's like a mental contraction is not like the headaches and no it's not as physical as alcohol do you guys getting that north carolina we does going on judges in california we'd use never we live in boulder set in the city of us right you remember we we lived in boulder so we we've we've tried all varieties yeah i'm sure that's all maybe it's a no i don't experience that yeah i mean i mean maybe it's the mental training that we've done and being a little more sensitive to that i don't know i don't know but i don't get sludgy afterwards there's no sludge innis there could be personal differences this also indica there's a just a job that which is a wide
virgin by a wide margin the majority of what most people are getting yeah it's easier to grow it's more common and it's what a lot of people were looking for is got more that narcotic effect where is the city even have more of like an uplifting different sort of and then is also the eating of it which is much more introspective that's much more cycle much more psychedelic that's right yeah so personally i don't have anything against of mind altering substances i think meditation is a mind altering substance i'm more just curious about how do we use the substances are we trying to get away experience are you trying to have inside so are trying because the problem with so many substances used you get into a pattern of of of of really trying to cope with the difficulty of experience and then getting addicted to that state as a way
dealing and i think that's where the problem comes in from a kind of mine training and contemplative perspectives thank you that's a good way describe it because that is what sort of happens right that's that's why people get drunk that's what people do pills yes like this this existence is so confusing in its of that you just want to escape and then use even that escaped becomes a trap and then you have to escape again you have to keep the scaping and then if you stop then you gotta deal with all this shit that comes up feel good yeah and then you got to go to rehab and try to wean your body the escape and if your a teacher you gotta be concerned about how everyone perceives you because you're not perfect because all pilled up that's right you a pill buddhist teacher teachers are all fucked up on adderall oh there are as many buddhist teachers doing as many weird things as there are any other humans i'm pretty sure
but you hope that at least overall there would be more improvement in their overall character or ability to cope with this existence i think there is overall i think people inclined towards openness and then there's a balance between you know the multiple levels of development i don't know meaning that you know just because we developed in spiritual context then you also have you know your social context and so we have to continue to the up evenly you know yeah spectrum i think that's one of the trickiest paradoxes like you can become really good at being in this free the liberated open spacious mind some people are incredibly good at you just with them and have a hit of that you know but like their sex life
completely messed up you know and they like abuse small dogs and children and really i mean i'm i'm i'm i'm exaggerating a little but not that much i mean there are people who have had profound profound realizations of the interconnection all things and and they're profoundly dysfunctional on other levels and i've met many of those folks and have been those folks at times you have been folks no yeah i've been dysfunctional and messed up and doing stupid stuff what you're practicing buddhism sure what was the influence that cause you to be dysfunctional and fucked up while usually in the insights that come from buddhism that direction so the insights that have stabilized beef really sure sort of i got a psychedelic experience to make someone go crazy permanently or temporarily yeah i think i've i've i've gone through periods i i'd say
bless it's been less the buddhist meditation as much as been like healing just parts of my past you know being human and having been through difficult times you know i think more of it's probably been the logical and one of the common things that happens you know in a spiritual context that people use their spiritual product practice to by pass those human psychological issues it's called spiritual by passing so for me i think part of what happened is i bypassed for a long time and really deep in a particular way and then had to come back around and deal with like my human experience on a level that i hadn't the before and then it was really painful so it's almost like you have these sort of confining aspects of your personality that because of perceptions those confining aspects are probably good and then buddhism comes along and blows down those boundaries and you're like i'm not ready for this yet and then you freak out
a little bit and then you come back around yeah yep and then the integration part i think is kind of what you're talking about two is is going deep in the contemplative space and then if we're inclining our minds towards you know seeing the reality of like what's really happening here like how are we constructing this reality and that starts to you know peel back you know there are moments where it's like so much there's a lot of freedom and then at the same time it's like oh crap like i gotta figure out how to integrate this in my life and maybe that those insights of the vast missing the spaciousness and that you know we're not just our bodies and we're not just our limited views of who we are you know those insights have to be integrated into the way that we live our life and that's challenging part that's when
you know the rubber meets the road and dot intake psychological work it takes body work it takes really tumbling it's very humbling because then it you the putting the teacher on the pedestal going back to that it's like okay we're actually all in this together and you know maybe you know i've traveled these these enter worlds and can help other people navigate them at the same time you know we have to come back as a collective in and like you know we gotta wash the dishes he's got take out the trash and then you know if you have kids you got a raise the kids and and how do you do that without without killing each other you know them as more of our teachers jack corn fields as often you have to remember your buddha nature and your zip code both and right and the zip code part i think can be hard if you've been focusing mostly on on recognizing your your so called buddha nature is like
the way that your mind inherently is yeah that's similarly discussed the psychedelic community like what's the point in having these experiences if you can't bring back the revelations and enhance your actual here now life sure thinks it's really important and then and then when it is the integrated like a i definitely want to flush it out just a little bit more so people can get the sense of that yes there really their difficulties and they're beautiful vast spacious moments and then at the same time and even we don't have any beautiful splash like a bass bases moments even this moment in itself as you're sitting here can be beautiful we've all touched into that you know so it's it there's a sense that when it's a wearing out that's how we describe it's a wearing out process of a smaller sense of who we are and that integration process is not always easy and yet as it happens
over all in over the long run we are very very very beautiful people you know like there's that capacity to be extremely powerful extremely beautiful and connected really connected with each other and that's that's what inspires me to talk about all of this so in a sense you guys kind of buddhist evangelists that's are we what but doing in the podcast sort of explaining or expressing what how is his enhance your life this is one way it's yeah it's one it's one added to it i mean we we're not evangelists in the in the sort of like missionary sense of right we're vangelis in this in the sense that you know we think there's value here for some people for some of the time that are inclined toward the sir or find it attractive and if they do like we have you know it's useful to be able to connect with other folks who've who've done it and
i'm in some sense can you know can be there with you one of our one of our mentors said yet that the role of a teacher is to be just a little less afraid that student doesn't mean they're like have a completely figured out it just means they have a little bit less fear of what's happening so i think it's useful to connect with people like that if you find you're attracted to something like that like if you're inside to psychedelics ma'am we've we've ford psychedelics units useful to go work with people who know a bit about it and who can like not freak out if you have a bad trip or if you start losing your your mind you know that can like extend their stability to you so that you can actually go through that process and learn from it and in the end like empowering experience of it or at least an empowering interpretation of what happened instead of just feeling like oh my god reality sucks and like i'm just going to be depressed and you know kind of crawl into
i'm so i think you know the same way you know for us we just want to create a space where people can in a practice together like like they've been doing for thousands of years sitting in exploring their minds in a collective well i think you two or the calmest people i've ever had the podcast this is been like the calmest podcast ever and i think yeah in that sense you guys are excellent representations of the buddhist lifestyle thank it's all about being a piece sometimes being chilled and unless you're a dharma punk unless you unless you're driving up the four hundred and five nine o'clock that'll do it to you that will definitely do it to you thank you guys very much spent a lot of funds entertaining uh three hours and uh if anybody wants to get ahold of your podcast your twitter oil is buddha deep buddhist geeks emily horn and vincent horn those are two individual twitter
and your website puthiskicks dot com and the podcast is buddhist geeks and available on itunes all that jazz you guys stitcher yes yes excellent thank you just do you have a a video aspect of it or just audio only we do a conference every year and so we've recorded all of the presentations at the conference and to release those eventually phidias tomatoes on buddhist geeks dot com yeah okay terrific well thank you thank you very much it's been a lot of fun thing very interesting thank you thanks to our sponsor thanks to legalzoom dot com go to legalzoom dot com and use the code word rogan at the referral box at checkout to save yourself some money thanks all so to blue apron go to blueapron dot com forward slash what is it four slash rogan sprint dot com slash rogan and get your first two meals for free
will be back tomorrow with stand up comedian nick yousif and uh lots more podcasts this week so take care and bob for now big cass from la
Transcript generated on 2019-10-16.