Ryan Parsons is the owner of Radius Sports Artist Management. A full-service talent management company representing some of the world’s most elite athletes.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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is on the cutting edge, always of sports. Ants in nutrition and just just a cool mother fucker in a good dude. To talk to so please welcome. Mister Ryan. Parsons Xperience trained by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day, Ryan Parsons. My friend good see brother. You too, I'm doing well, thanks for having me thank could be another man out: there kicking ass, managing fighters getting cutting edge of science and training and nutrition, and every time I talk to you got some new cutting edge type shit. So it's about yeah today is an improvement. Today, Ryan came in with these new gloves these radius Emma gloves that literally you can punch a wall with these things on and they don't hurt your hands. I've never experienced anything like that. It's really interesting, so this, like this red, that's what this is this red
Hard high density foam. It's not it's a close cell phone now, there's three sizes of it, but it started years ago a fighter who had a boxers knuckle That was so swollen inflamed. If you just tapped, it would be painful for him so for a year at affected everything that we did, he couldn't admit sparring and every little bit and we wrapped it with tape with gauze with sponges everything. We could do to try to figure out how to take the pain away, because, if you're going to fight you have to- and I have to punch, he continues to get irritated, but I failed and we didn't come up with any solution, and that was the end of it fast forward. A couple years, Pat Cummings, Dirk and develop the exact same huge swollen middle knuckle, an there's, a hand wrapped guy at the UFC, a cut man Rudy, and he had a different approach to wrapping hands and he would place the gods underneath the knuckle not on top everyone pads. The knuckle like this
You can't really padded enough. So if you're punching with the knuckle, it stresses the bones in your hand here at your wrist and sometimes your elbow. So he explained that was how the boxing the hand up guys in the 60s and 70s and boxing used to rap, where you put the the pad on the bottom of the knuckles, and if you just put your fingers like this there's natural flex, its involved with your hands and it saves punching here and decreases. Stress here, so, instead of putting it over the knuckle, if you like, looking at a fist coming your way you would put it below so for folks are just listening to this. You would just put it below the bumps of the knuckle, the bumps where the bones correct- and this is this something you develop yourself. I watch TIM do that enough here. Take this blah hello! I was reaching for his thing and I knocked over my coffee. I've done this one hundred times on the show, That's alright! Mountain electronics were damaged so yeah, so anyways that
I kind of thought he was doing with the guys and we played around with it and the experience with the fighter a few years ago and then with pad. It was something that was really affecting our day to day life, so we kind of took that basic concept and expanded upon it and we tested so many different styles of foam shapes densities, and we ended up with this, and I made a prototype at home and Pat started using we'd walk around my kitchen with their hands wrapped punching the granite countertops, and now God boy there's something here. I don't know what it is, but this really works and pat start these them in training. I don't pay attention for a couple weeks and I saw that every a he was washing the same hand wraps us to do to get this in your hand up, because now the other ones don't work. This is the one I like and that covers are the light bulb moment right. There said we have to figure out what's going on here. So what are those that, when, when a boxer gets that Nikolic boxers Michael? What is that it's just a
terribly irritated the Kendall when attending can get torn. All the soft tissues around at the joint capsule gets swelled up and your knuckle hurts your whole hand are dick, his grip strength, so especially in mma or grip strength, so important, all of a sudden. Now you can't squeeze like you can you're grappling goes. There's really long term implications of that and a lot of times. These are problems that plague fighters for years. What do you think about this idea? I've been throwing us around a lot lately. I think that it might be better for everybody. There is no gloves. Well, you'll have less NA cats, you have less knockout yeah yeah, less brain damage, you have less hand, damage so you have more hand damage so yeah for sure, because gloves protect so you'll have
less brain damaged, less not gets initially right, but wouldn't everybody like sort of figure out what you can and can't get away with when it comes to punching you can't just fucking wail away, you have to be more precise and your your implementation of strikes. I guess in theory that's true, but you get in the middle of a fight, and this happens all the time in training paths. Boxers knuckle didn't come initially from hitting hitting pads, it came from a minimum, a glove and he came into a scramble situation hit someone in the head the hard part of their head. His knuckle swelled out so you're going to get in their scramble situations, especially in MMA that you're going to catch someone funny. But don't you think that maybe there would be less leg breaks we're seeing with like Anderson Silva in Tyrone Spong, if they wore Shin pads for sure and should have more protection is going to be more protection. There's less injuries with that, but you have. But no one is going to accept that right. You can't go back I was going to say, like you know, if you start padding people shins are people going to come on? What are we doing this?
really. The fans are going to hate it and also padding your shins or some trouble with grappling with that. It's hard to grapple with with Shin guards which brings me back to the gloves it's hard to sink in chokes it's hard to sink jokes. Are those gloves like rear Naked's and things along those lines? It's hard to share to lock up the correct hand, position gay teens are tougher to get there's a bunch of things that are tougher to secure your hand, your hand grips true. It's a trade off and mmm right, it's in constant. We give and take in the sport, but it seems to me that if you can hit someone with a raw elbow raw on the raw she and Rolfe Fort Raheel, you could heels who won the head ache. You know a la Edson Barboza Terry Atom, which is one of the worst knockouts ever a wheel. Kick They had amount of force you generated just insane, but
no! No padding at all. I mean it literally. These pads are protecting the hand more than they're protecting the fighter from damage right sure for sure right. Definitely so, if that's the case, is that, like a an almost like on a crutch for the striker, for that for the person is actually the living the shot you giving them an unfair advantage, you're taping their wrist up in an unnatural way, 'cause. It's part of punching things. Your wrist buckle like you have to learn how to. Which correctly, and you have to be much more diligent about the placement of your punches, because when you hit things of you, You seem like a slow motion. Video of someone hitting something with a bare knuckle, fuckin wrist just gives out its adjoint it's hard to keep stiff. I think I think we have an unrealistic perception of striking because of the fact that guys, wear gloves and tape and wraps and all that jazz. I think it's unrealistic. It definitely changes things for sure yeah. I think I think there an argument for it and I think it would probably save.
A lot of shots that guys eat you know, I think, that over a leg over the course of your career, I think, would be significantly less impacts. But a lot of the queue cumulative trauma is: is training base jail, yeah, yeah. So with these we knew they worked, and so we teamed up with the sport science lab at Uc Fullerton and got a real phd pumping out real research and said that we can punch are granite. Countertops with these tell us if we're imagining this really works. So we did the first of a series of of academic studies on.
On this approach to it and found a couple things that they reduce impact dramatically in the way one of the ways they first test it. They took an eighteen to thirty five in a fifty pound kettle bell and they did a rap on the kettle bell. With this approach and then drop out, we bought this special school district notepad that measures impact forces and it was scientifically calibrates. We know. Ok, this thing works and they did repeated thousands of drops on this and they measured it and it was. I can't give the number until for some reason, till this study is published, but it was a tremendous decrease, even if
a fifty pound cat about a decrease this the force of the kettlebell on to the pad. So the issue with brain trauma is not just the impact, but the amount that it forces the head back right. The snap of the head. That's an issue of a two year. You get here your brain slams into the back, yeah ahead and then comes back again. Do you think that that would be reduced? I don't that I don't think it's going to change right, but you're gonna have more absorption chef to look at a couple things: the basic physics, a question, the force of something because the mass, how big it is times acceleration how fast it's moving. This was a couple grand, so it doesn't increase the mass at all right. You have a big, thick pad, but still four ounces. Just like an mma gloves that you compete in, I think, yeah. I think our gloves way. Four point: five ounces, these wraps they're very standard, one hundred and eighty in traps as well, but the pad itself doesn't you can feel it doesn't do any thing yeah. It's amazing. This is like they keep coming up with new material
people in our new ways to formulate material that makes for things like this. This is just fascinating to me. That's a close cell foam, so just I mean you can put it in simple washer and dryer. It doesn't get. Bacteria can't grow anything like that, so we tested it and we also found that it reduced is, if you punch being you're wearing that it's less forced to my brain as well, and the reason why that is in another quiz you have to look at is the pressure. So up, if you throw a punch in a slap, the force is exactly the same if it's the same mark in the same strike right. The difference why it punches more devastating is because that that forces condensed into a smaller area on a punch, the slap it spread out over a wider area. So if you could pitch slapped by some of the little hand, pie hurts more, not messing fucking around. That's. Why it hurts more than girls bitch slap? You because it hurts your pride too. So this approach?
Do you think that this is it's the problem with it? You in competition? Is there too they're too big? It's a training, glove competitions, all different, but most people don't compete, but these are not that much bigger than the ones that were in pride, like the price, those are pretty good about it and in the curve of that, it also makes it more difficult to extend your fingers so will help with eye pokes. Oh yeah, that's right! That's a big one man, and that was another thing that try to dress better than the UFC, because it was very rarely wear their eye pokes in pride, I've been really kind of studying this. I poke thing a lot over the past few years. 'cause, I'm just it's that you know that
old cliche. The definition of insanity is doing something over and over again the exact same way, hoping for a different result, yeah, that's sort of what we're doing with this. I poke thing: yeah, every God, Damn fight. There's like look at the last, although Mendes. Why there's like to at least two? I pokes right there where they had to stop the action and back off, like it's crazy, that that, to me is crazy, that your high level competition guys not cheating, it's just they're, just doing what happens in a fight norm. Lee and guys are getting poked in the eye mean how many more guys have to get like a Michael Bisping type injury where Mean Michael Bisping has one crazy fucking. I he trains with this now. Does he his eye that one I is not good yeah doesn't seem to affect them in training, but it looks a little funny he's a fucking animal Michael Bisping is just
I have is that I have never met. Anyone who wants to win more than Michael Bisping High is a animal. He wants to win every training session. Every go every situation that guys a winner, yeah he's a animal yeah and he doesn't have like like extreme athletic talent. Extreme physical gifts, it's just cardiovascular training discipline will toughness is got all these other things, but, like You look at a guy like a John Jones, just incredible physical talent. You look at a guy like Hector, Lombard, ridiculous, physical talent, on top of the discipline, all that stuff, just a normal guy, so more guy who's, tough as shit tough as shit. He doesn't get enough credit. I really don't think he gets nearly enough credit. Now I mean the guys he's lost to have been very juice, hop top high level, guys well probably most effort, TIM Kennedy,
TIM Kennedy was clean, clean as a whistle, but everybody else essentially was on something that you can't do anymore. I don't know what I like about him is grit and they found that grit is a much better. Predictor of success than IQ is so when you find someone who really want something and they're willing to suffer an keep going and failing it up again and failing it up again, that's the guy that you gotta put your money on Bisping. Does that better than any, he certainly does, but it him against a guy, like Anderson Silva in his prime. You know that that that's like this crossover this like where the land of gr it meets extreme talent and confidence, and just that rule air quality, that the goats possess the greatest of all time times, guys that rare thing that Anderson had for a few years in his prime, it seems like Weidman's kind of stolen that from him pretty, which is a shame too, because he was so dominant for so long, not shame, B,
beautiful. So you know I don't I don't mean that I mean if, if people don't think is highly of Anderson Cell, which has she lost, and that would be a shame. I don't see that I don't see that it's just Weidman the right guy at the right time and that's the beautiful thing about the sports. You know new guys come along and Weidman becomes that guy and Weidman you know a beat the older mochila, and this is a fucking savage man had one we find that guys are tank, he just God, Damn iron willed, steel, jawed, knockout machine, that's a fucking high caliber four time division, one all american wrestler- that wants to steal your soul once again on top view and punch through your fucking, your bone structure. Until you get out your soul and just fucking yank it out of your body and win and there's always going to be those guys. You know, like a nature documentary it is male lion at some point is driven Buffalo New company is going to happen. You know Anderson,
thirty, nine now and he just signed a fifteen fight deal yeah. How crazy is he at thirty nine he's like shining just for fun. I don't know, maybe he's going to do all fifteen fights I mean he would have to do. What is Cerroni, probably fights the most of anybody right provides about five times a year. I think Neil Magny, six times last year, did you really yeah yeah Neils? Try. I thought he was trying to fight A6. Time may be right so it's a six times per the most, that's pretty extreme. Every two months, that's the with the most. Anybody does right pretty much for headline of the you gotta figure, it's every yeah, maybe three times a year, if you're really, lucky. So if he yeah that's true right because you gotta sell it, it's not only men. He is on the undercard, is like people look forward to seeing him fight good fighter, but it's not People are like shelling out paper view
hours to see a guy who's relatively unknown, except for guys hardcore guys, like you may, who really know about it. But I got a gander. Since Alan Paper View Sound cards headline five, he probably can't fight but three times a year max. If I have a real, especially you talk about age and then preparation, it's going to take him now, three months to prepare, because that's how is used when doing if you're, young and you're just getting started, you can go fight more, but when you go a bit older, you can need that time and then you've had that experience of longer fight camps- and for preparation, and so what do you think of fifteen fight deal is just to keep him from going to Bellator? I would imagine that was on Anderson's end. I don't know, but I wonder, we had a deal and then when they were back in Rio for this past, you have see the. Although Mendes fight they re, signed him. They threw out the old deal. Re signed him to his fifteen fight. Deal he's done everything. There is still hope. This with them is one of the greatest ever he said he's the greatest ever I think- is the greatest ever for sure. But the
you mean to be made, especially now that he's lost the argument can be made for fate or those the only two two guys. I think that fall into the greatest ever faders tough thing. Is he never fight in UFC yeah? That's that's the one strike against them also, the way he lost to Bigfoot and the way he lost over doom, it's like and Henderson yeah yeah that's a that's a big one, two men. He was kind of a different guy. By that time, though, you know I thank you very sort of checked out. His body looks way different. I go back and watch the Fujita fight. Yeah see we fought Fujita use folk and rock to swallow. He still had that big russian beer belly Buddy was swore. He was a big six. What can we do? We share locker rooms with him pride before all really yeah. How did you prepare? Was he won't? What's his warm up like they're, always pretty mellow, I I don't think you should have watched a warm up with him, we're always for whatever reason it didn't turn out like that, but sometimes you pay attention warm up sometime today.
It just depends where you fall in the card. One of the things that I really love about MMA is that there's guys you that are out there that really are almost forced to innovate. It's like this is not a sport like football or basketball, where establish training protocols and everybody sort of knows the exact right way to go about doing things. Note like guys like you who are going on what if we there was no training protocols, so they had to be started so much someone. I think they thought their insulted me once said: Ryan's always trying to make everything better. Exactly that's exactly it! It's the greatest guy!
Your insult was a great compliment. What people think that for some reason, everything's fine, he just work hard, everything's, fine, but no there's, there's, there's all sorts of ways to do things the right way. Well, we what I wrote the first team questioning manual fourteen years ago, so it's been a long time, thinking about the progress and and how you train for sports, then there's been an evolution of the technical side of things in in the beginning technique. You had to know the technique if you'd never seen an armbar before we didn't had to a double leg, the what became very important, what to do what what technique to as to? How do you defend this? If you don't know, then all of a sudden you know I'm at art, gyms. In the other day I met art. I met art at one of the recent uscc aim with his glove. You brought that one looks to the year. He gave me a glove, that's really nice guy. He just had never even seen. If you don't know that that can exist, you have to figure out the what yeah. Now the what is everywhere. I can have Marcelo Garcia teach me how to choke someone on Youtube in two minutes and does cost me any money right
If I want, I can save up little bit, money can go to New York and I can probably do a private with him for couple one hundred dollars or like that, whatever it, whatever this yeah, and there's so many people there. So many people who can teach me how to head a box how to kick box had everything so the what isn't important anymore. Now, it's why? Why are you doing what you're doing so? That's what I spend most of my time. One we've changed the nature of how we structured training camps in nature of how we train for each fight has to adjust and change a little bit 'cause en. If is different, you know whether the what is still sort of like ambiguous or missing is in traditional karate techniques like traditional taekwondo techniques, like a lot of people, are doing a lot of those wrong still high level guys still throw bad spinning back kicks. They still throw bad wheel kicks like high level guys, but then some guys pick it up, but you got like a in thirty seven years old, also he's got a wheel, kick out of nowhere like fights rockhold him in the head with a wheel, kick never even fucking thrown a we'll check before you
is one wheel. Kick early in that round, misses and throws a second one clocks, Rockhold and finish them off. The grounds again want. Fuck, and you know where a lot of victor is kicking, is coming from brittle hands. Sorrel I was kicking coming from VV towards had more than seven surgeries on his hands, he's always breaking his hands, so he started to four is like forced himself like when he fought John Jones here of up hand going in that fight. You know I'd I'd spoken with him in Brazil. Just may be a few months before the and he had a pin his hand. So, a few months before fighting for the light heavyweight title against are play the greatest light. Heavyweight ever he's going to fucking broken hand. You know so he started developing his kicks a lot more and that's wayside knocked out. Bisping with a head, kick fucked up Henderson with a hat cake head. Kick at Kix were not a part of his repertoire in the early days. It was all whites
and stand your ground and then sucking more blitzkrieg with those boxing punches now he's forced to adapt and forced to Fort forced to learn and grow, but when it comes like across the board, if you got if we took everybody in the UFC Roster, four hundred plus guys whatever- and we brought him in the room- and I said, show me how you throw a spinning back, kick show me a throw, will kick, one percent of them would be doing it right. Maybe maybe one percent show me how to throw a right hand. Hundred percent would do it right. Show me the throw left took his two variations. They would all be doing it right. You know either it's not a hand. No you don't knuckles up or knuckles across in yeah either. One is fine both of our fact of but there's a lot of techniques are still missing, there's a lot of because flexibility dexterity with the legs and having those abilities, I think that's the neck level shit and you're, seeing God like Conor Mcgregor who's coming
use use, throws all these wild kicking techniques that a lot of guys just don't they just don't have the repertoire the straight more time, but if you've got the more time and that I think that's next level, there's always room to improve right yeah and they were forever. There will be it for me. The biggest improvement that people haven't really caught on to is the cage, yet using the cage really is in the cage, because the dynamics of fighting on a cager totally different, and I would say, over the past four years we had this kind of group around rain. That was there. I was there Mark Mullen. Yo's Babalu contribute a little bit Dan Henderson contribute a bit like this. This whole approach, a systematic approach to fighting on the cage kind of came out through this whole development process really interesting and fun to be a part of, but that's an area that I see a lot of guys. Just still not is a basic thing.
I watch fights with the notebook so every time I have new drills that come out of every every card that I watch and I notice that when someone tries to shoot a double leg, the first thing you do is you turn right. You turn your hips, so your feet are now parallel to the cage. I would watch pride. Two hundred fights- I saw one person finish a double leg when their feet high, turn to a parallel position to the cage. Guys would still hang onto it. They get their head pushed down. Maybe they get elbowed in that position. Travis Browne Travis, Browne, yeah. They hang on to this double when he's turned, if you now, No visual is to see. I think you think about your in a fight. Adrenaline is go in your in your double again. You see but then you look at a guy's feet. If, at that point you see they're, not pointing straight out. I have no double that you can switch your single right so that one little thing right there, all of a sudden, you can teach somebody because it won the first and say to do is I have to help someone understand number one, their part in in the overall scheme, how they fit into the culture and the the current state of MMA.
But also how they deal with every position in the cage and when they go in there. I want them to know that they have a system for approaching each of those, so bye, bye, taking it down and understanding. Ok, that one little thing if their feet are here, you have a double leg of the feet are here, you have a single leg, it's a very easy for them for them to grow on. Well, that's something that people that don't really understand mma and they just sort of watching a fight. I don't think they truly appreciate how much thinking is involved in MMA, how much technique and how much it really is this massive complex new game of strategy? It's about brute force It's about kinetic energy is about endurance and will and grace, but it's also so about all those things applied through discipline and technique. It's about positioning and understanding and knowledge and like this can deleted approach to training and to
like really going over every single detail of every single position. The challenge comes to me to take a guy in ok. Let's say you naturally are good wrestler. You wrestled in college, you have a long, torso and short legs and you have to then kind of steering someone in a direction because the inherent mma is it there's too much. I can't lift weights enough. I can't do enough. Cardio can't do enough to just so I can box. I can you can't see you have to go and down. Okay, we are going to do all of this stuff and we're going to know that we're not going to do it because we don't have time to weave. This is where our focus needs to be, and that's the. Why part of it? Why are we doing what we're doing? How do you choose that and then it changes based on the person based on injuries based on age, based on opponent, future opponents kind of where you see the trajectory of the we're going all this. You have to be thinking about this stuff in the process yeah, and it seems like that's one of the things when they say styles make fights, that's where really comes into play because you true
can't be the master at everything in pop since over. If a wrestling match with Shale Sonnen Celson would be him every God. Damn day the week sure they'd show up for a year, every God. In time they wrestled jail. Double take him down. It would be, would be about points every time, but it is mma hot wrestling. You know, So some guys you, you can get away with doing that. Some guys you take down in ground him out some guys they figure out how to stand up to figure out how to move away from you and some guys Take you down. I mean there's a guy like Shale Sonnen who's, going to run into this, who this Olympic Savage has been training with Dan Henderson or, with a he's, got a couple world battles. Couple yeah, that's yeah that guy. If you got in there with jail jail, might find himself on his back, they he might be like he never right, because you guys wrestling in a cage is very different,
actually give times and rest, and you would never take a single leg and then go around the waist right except a few on the cage, and then that's the best way to approach right right, right and also dependent. You have a guy like your amero right stud awesome. His right. His hasn't Cena showed a whole lot of wrestling in his fights, gets a couple. Takedowns read to virus Eve. Ragdoll to Mars is thrown around like a pillow, but you look at some of these for a guy. If I mean he yeah what seven world medals metal than everything you did yeah I if, if in when, maybe that metal sold yeah he was so good but Pat brought this up the other day when stress on his wrist and four minute matches, so can you keep the pace up? Can you hit twelve take downs? Can do three takedowns around a four takedowns around over a period of fifteen minutes? Most guys can't do that
well, it's also. The frame that he's used to carrying around for wrestling is probably the wrong frame for MMA. He should probably tone it down a little bit. Yeah me he's, big, fucking guy! You look at him when he steps on the not the Wayans a little behind you the only steps into the octagon that fucking cartoon. I mean his way, this twenty seven inches his fucking shoulders are retarded. Everything is just as bubble muscle. Glass bubble ties just he looks like just a super freak like a super freak athlete he's amazing. If you saw his wrestling videos when he was active, obviously, yeah. It's amazing, unbelievable speed, his ability to close the distance, is shocking. In MA. You know we saw that into the Tavares fight, he Tavares move forward and he stepped in while Tavares is moving forward and blasted him in the face with an l well, but it was just like two guys moving at completely different speed, he's the only guy I've seen to an ankle pick in an mma fight so Michael Turin, James Toney, that was ls
oh that was right. It was a low single. Well, Meredith is a fight in Germany. He litters in a fighting stance reached down from an outside grip grab the guys ankle lifted it up overhead the guy had them. I mean to see it that guys different. But again you have to look at. Are we fighting for twenty five minutes where we fight in a four minute wrestling match? Because there have been some great wrestlers, amazing, wrestlers, come into man completely fail because for summer and they can't tune it in for fifteen minutes. You know who I really wish would have stuck in there, but it just wasn't. His thing is Rulan Gardner yeah I My management start it really in a lot of ways. My training start with rule on
rule on when he fought Yoshida. That was his first mma fight right. It was, he had never been in a fight before we are in Japan and we're in Dan fought somebody on October 31st. They flew him into Japan to Tokyo in October 31st and he was fighting exactly eight weeks later December. 31St was the new year's Eve s queries, so he didn't show up in California for fifteen days. So of that eight weeks two of them were gone. Two one slash two weeks are gone. So six weeks left six weeks, we have travel and Christmas. So now, let's go down to five weeks and I think he went out of town twelve days but yeah he was over, there is no days left. He would have a speaking engagement here. He I gotta go away I'll, be back tomorrow. We'd miss a day here we miss today there. So there's no days that today it was a suit, was a real challenge for sure, but it's like five days of training or so increasingly more than that, I forget what it all came out to be, but it may be kind of refocused myself to go
Okay, we have a limited amount of time. We have never been in a fight before like it down on the school ground. Nothing! like that is too big. It really was a a you go for it. Yeah, eighth grade. Are you fighting rule on? I don't think this fucking heads big this table yeah, so it kind of had to decide. Ok, here's what we're going to do and then deal with all the mental side of things, anxiety of a fight coming up and it's a big deal, a lot to work and all that time. So as a unique challenge for him, but I like is striking approach to he just jab the fuck out of 'em to stepped in and hit him with that God. Damn telephone pole of a hand of it is just wrong. It's like extending a big telephone poles. I think we worked at like four things is the same thing when so could but no guerra, the fight. You saw that so we did over and over for six weeks. So what when you, when you put an athlete in the
situations where they're in over their head. You have to get super focus that funnel has gotta get totally narrow to go. Ok, here's what we're doing this is the only thing you're allowed to think about, and then you take care of everything else in their life, so don't even have to focus on it so that when they come in there you given their best chance of winning by doing this one thing, the different strategy, and so for Gardner. What were the things he worked on? What that jab closing the distance? Don't worry about thrown right hands, it's hard to throw a punch of the back. Can if you don't have experience very exposed. Yeah king comes up yeah where's, my distance yeah. Behind that job yeah. He had probably a hundred pounds and Sheila yeah in in the clinch position as fairly confident about that and then to get on top cover. His hips grab his wrist posture up and punches. No, I didn't get great job with ground and pound, but we keep it very simple. He was allowed to wear wrestling. Shoes too,
is giant giant to get a big. I like that with wrestling shoes on grips totally, did good luck, taking him down good fucking luck, olympic Gold, medalist, the last guy. I mean he who the fuck did. He beat in competition. He beaker Ellen right in the finals. Well is a weird thing. Was the grip thing right yeah it's! Basically I give it was tide. One guy gets the lock first, if you lock first and you break your grip, then it's over. You get a point, so rule unlock second colonel unlocked. He broke his grip, and that was that's kind of ridiculous. To call that, point. That was a fairly recent rule. To wasn't like this change was, and that was fourteen years I mean, in the time in that time frame. They had just recently changed the rules, keep up with wrestling. Much done. The rules always change a little bit, but that's not a victory. It is but it isn't. You know I mean it's like God,
damn, especially when you're dealing with the guy who's, just probably the greatest russian heavyweight of all time, he's probably one of the greatest olympic athletes of ultimate? He won every world and olympic championships for like thirty years, he never lost a match in international, never lost a match. International competition till he met rule on in the finals and lost because of his grip broke and nothing happened, didn't get taken down and get thrown in his head. Nothing! There's images of him images of Corelle and Jamie pull up, one of the images of Corelle and Andrew Karel and there's an image of him. Where he's fuck in picking someone up in his race lynching his teeth and he's got this fucking psycho Arctic. Look in his eyes and his whole body doesn't even look real. I mean in the phillips straining it's like he's got some extra muscles that, like you know, when you see the hulk like in avengers you go well, there wasn't even real muscle, so he's got muscles that don't belong in the human body. They like extra, can actions and weird little you know like the hulk is, is not just
extra muscular he's! Not it's! Not a human frame has a totally different frame. There's something about Corelle and these fucking critter. What was the supplement program like? I think I probably ought to do with a lot of stuff that it's very hard to get at the store probably have to go to a scientist and you probably don't swallow it. It probably goes in needle into the muscle Clinton muscle. Well, you know his his parents were small. His parents were like five five and five seven. I didn't know that yeah there's a crazy photo from sports, illustrated of Corelle and walking with his parents. There's the picture. Look at that look at the fucking picture look at the fucking picture man- oh my god, you think he wanted to win in the 80s Dan Dan Henderson HEAT Sims she's. Now they could evolve, used to go over to Russia and they would train with those guys. So they got so good. They are
go spend. They would spend months at a time there in Heath would tell me. Kremlin would sit on the ground under a rope legs and just arms coming over three hundred pounds, climbing up a rope with no arms up and down up and down. I'm not surprised. He was a freak ass delete, just freakishly, strong, so much so that guys would flatten out on their stomachs to try to keep him from picking them up and throwing them on their heads. That happened at heavyweight, crazy yeah. You just take three hundred pound guys from UFC only flattened out position, and he would just scoop him up like they were nothing and just launch him through the fucking air. Only father time beat that guy just after awhile, you know he's running hot for other time in ruling guard yeah and Rulon Gardner, yeah sort of sort of beat him, I mean technically beat him didn't, beat him like. He beat everybody else, but Gardner I was like man when I saw him beat. Yoshida was like if this fucking guy really do
gates himself and really Dietze down an gets to an optimum weight, and you know I mean who the fuck is going to be. He was supposed to fight again, suppose, wife, a door. They offered him over one million dollars to fight fate. I did those deals ignore from million dollars. Now the fight was for Nogara on two weeks notice, but that was a different offer, There was an offer for a fade or not. Otherwise there wasn't so it's bullshit. And the internet. It was. It was the first deal I ever did as a manager was ten years ago and they called up. They wanted rule on to fight Nogara on two weeks notice or ten something but pride was always like that. You always found out two or three weeks we're going to fight rule on Henman training. Man I haven't been training and, I said: will rule on you didn't train for the first one go out, there shoot a double leg. If you want stick your arm method, you know this is going to happen. You're going to be fine right. We tell him to take a dive bomb to. If you get scared, you know scared. You know whatever
Put that in is that if you get sick, I put leave your arm out, sound. Of course, not I'm not gonna, say it so much more said it already, but I mean so what's going to happen right, you just going to get tab. Your big go out there and if you get in a sense, you don't like, or you feel tap out right now- cares than asshole he's not going to break your arm so It was a crazy like six hour, negotiate back and forth and we're at a huge number and it turned out to be a three fight deal worth well over million dollars. The majority of it was for that fight on two weeks notice that he decided that he didn't want to do it the next time. But it didn't end there and then he was given the opportunity on two days notice to fight butter bean at the pride event in Vegas two days notice how athletic commission make sure that well they had it all worked out. He had to fly down that day. Physical and everything were all lined up. They would have found a way to get it done. He would smash butter bean. I might be one double like butter bean, be like a turd
back yeah. He was well. You do have to worry about butter bean tagging you when you're coming in, but he's gotta, fucking iron, Chin too he's a big guy, potter, pink and crack, though that was the baddest. The fat guy ever. Does he wasn't for morbidly obese? He wasn't like fat like Roy Nelson FAT you know he makes Roy Nelson look like Michael Phelps. You know when the two of US An extra butter bean has like that. Weird underarm fat like that fat. That makes you arms stick out like this. We shared a locker room with him. He takes his own hands to does. He is a mother, Fucker Barbecue cook here see him cooking barbecue he's a super, yeah. I think it is cooked the shit out of some barbeque. That's. Why is that big? I've got one autograph of my adult life and it was from butter being really. I gave it to my dad. Like listen man, you gotta sign this Barbie, that's cool bad, so
rule on just decided. No, no more. I just wasn't for him now how you know he just went bankrupt. There was this big things. Online. There auctioning off all this stuff is stuff from the Olympics as sad, and then he was on biggest loser. He was like more than three hundred and fifty pounds is four hundred and fifty pounds for fifteen. He lost one hundred and fifty or something, oh, my god. What is that just bad food, or is he just I mean to get that big? You need genetics to get that big. I would have a hard time getting to four hundred and fifty pounds once a big yeah huge barrel chest and he likes to eat. There is the biggest loser, Jesus Christ. That was sad, seeing them too on this kind of freak show on tv. You know this is what God Damn Olympic Gold medalist. This is a great wrestler, great athlete, and you see them on the
biggest loser. It's like. Does this really? The only way he can lose weight, I mean I don't understand it. Who knows me and that's how it goes right. I mean the life of the athlete. Now when you're a trainer but you're also a manager. I mean you're involved in a lot of different It's been a long development process. For me I started I gotta chiropractic degree an if we go back. I wrestled Arizona state and met Dan Henderson there and heat sensor there. Randy could tour would be out there a little bit and then I moved to California after that a year later started chiropractic school and continued Dan and I were roommates for Price six years so the whole time I was in chiropractic school. We would have training camps at our House or Randy. Oh come spend a month like before the ninety six Olympics, so they were always guys coming in. So the only people that I ever worked with were world class athletes.
As as the transition MA came in Dan, was the number one wrestler in the country and he made twelve grand a year doing what. As you got paid. So if you're the number on the national team, he got a paycheck on that page. I was in bucks a month, yeah whoa, so he got a call in. I think there's two thousand and eight to fight in Brazil and how much does it take as well as three flights of wonder? If you win, you get twelve thousand dollars and then I think had been in two street fights in his whole life and he goes ok and went down there, is only Dan Henderson doing that one. Those three fights and that's his career got started only got one one of 'em by submission. Yet is the coolest you never guy is a guillotine. He was standing up in the guy passed out on his feet and Dan ended up in the Mount position:
and then he beat another Carlson Gracie Black belt in the guide tap the crowd didn't like it, the crowd storm the cage. It was a crazy moment. The crowd didn't like that. The guy tapped, the crowd, thought the was early, and then there was a early. They have a right, but the cage is really tall and they they kind of charge the cage, and maybe the lights, went out or something I was in there. I'm just in case of second hand on this. One was now, while the lights used to go out and those brazilian MMA Valley, Tudo fights of shit was gone bad, they would shut the license tabs to the cage the general today, oh and A heads up, Gracie member of the lights, went out. Wednesday was losing so he yes down in there and then the guy then said no, no, I've lost my momentum. I don't want to fight again, so he he didn't want to continue lost my mom, and I think that he said something like that. Okay,
so Dan, said Dan went and won the term and that's how he kind of at least got his entry into MMA and then ended up in in rings there this king of King tournament, it was thirty, two men, it was uh open weight, tournament. Thirty, two guys it wasn't fatal in that as well, so he was in the next year or the year before something Fader fought and rings. But I don't know if he was in the tournament. I'd have to go, look at a record, but Dan fights he fights to win it. He three one hundred one eighty foot Babalu, he thought Gilbert Arrival and he fought Nogara Big Nogara wow, that's funny on the negere told me this years later, Noguera won the term of the next year they paid than two hundred thousand dollars in cash as japanese gangsters offended Ashley walked in afterwards and they handed him two hundred thousand dollars. Would you guys do with the cash? We don't really know what to do
if it was me Dan and Randy walking around the streets of Tokyo with two hundred thousand dollars in a backpack trying to figure out the wire this. Do we not wire it? How did you get it back to America? We just end up brought it back and and claimed it Can you do that? You can bring back two hundred gram. You just have to tell them, oh he yeah as you go. I have this money. Oh, I see yeah I've I knows about. It was Jacques. When he fought over in Japan against ranked rake yeah, they say If I ever cornered someone in was it really acquired frank trick in that fight in one thousand, nine hundred and ninety eight Randy Foot and in a way on that they took money and they like give it to like all the brothers they all like brought it over, how to figure out how to do it, but you do after you can have one ten thousand bucks on you without claiming it he allowed to be a ball. With like nine thousand nine hundred and ninety nine bucks, I think of those
Is everyone who fight in pride probably shut some money in their underwear when they were coming through and cross? Your fingers yeah right is everything was paid in cash over there because you know when you fill out a cuss. This form that asks you do. You have more than ten thousand dollars and he clicked so and so weird number. You know I have to pick number yeah they have to pick a number. I think that's like one of those numbers two were like if you deposit it in the bank out, like red flags, go off if it's more than ten grand, so you have to like sneaky in, like nine, that started in the 80s and for all the coke. In my uh, but if it wasn't for Coke in Miami and cash there be no Miami yeah, more more banks per cap but other than anywhere else in the fucking country. For a reason- and it's looking cowboys my favorite documentaries and cooking cowboys to have you seen two, maybe even better yeah Billy Corben. I gotta get that guy on the podcast one of these days ago, who produce that awesome. Guy, fucking, great documentaries mess so well done it's just such a crazy, crazy fucking store.
So anyway, Dan one two hundred thousand dollars in cash, but it was funny if you really saw it Dan was made of in that, because I think he probably took his first fight was with Gilbert Arrival and he probably took him down fourteen times and Dan knocked him down the beginning, which had never been done before he almost our bottom, then he will have to catch him. I think it was well over ten takedowns and when he came to the back, because you have fairly quick turn around time and those determined days, it's a whole different mentality. So you go back into the locker check yourself out yeah and he had never his forearms were so swollen. He couldn't really make a make a fist. Then he fucked by
blue, why was formed swarm from reducing so much grappling so much squeezing and they just weren't settling down? Then they went and fought by balloon. His knee got hurt- and I remember turned into Randy, but before the fight with no gear gun, I don't know if he can. I don't know if you can go out there and Dan was hobbling around he creatures. Laying there he couldn't move at all could move his leg. His arms are still swollen. He was his whole body was seizing up and we've kind of got him moving a little bit and that's when they played the national anthem. Before the finals, you could see his whole physiology. Imposture Chan was really cool moment to say and everything changed and he went down there and fought a very close fight with Nogara giving up and all those guys wait over two hundred and forty pound Dan is every bit of two hundred pounds.
The fight all three and then won a bunch of money and that's kind of how we got to start and up in pride after that, while the national anthem fired a mob like Popeye, you can change the whole change in him when and how we have to you have to go. There has to be something above and beyond yourself to get through moments like that one of its nationalism, whatever it is, carry through. He got it done and ended up and ended up in pride after that wow, that's well. He fought in the UFC to write early days early Talango As- and I was there for that- ninety seven and what's his name, Karla Kind of dread, care, Canadian, could grappler well yeah yeah call soon. Carlos nice, yeah costume was a very good rapport. He was one of the first like really complex grapplers. That would fight you know no geese style complex grappling isn't, as there is really good. He is vicious vicious
can grappling I'm a fight with him and Matt Hughes got mad. He was in a triangle, man he slammed on his head and didn't even know he one. No one knew what was happening both after balls out yeah, he choked man he was out and as mad he just getting choked out. He slammed him on his head and knocked him out cold, so Matthews woke up the champion, and that was after Carlos had caught in Pat mill Otage in the first, a bulldog choke in mma com. This channel your school headlock and sat back to very effective move. Hi this, try to get out of hard to get out of. That's a weird move, people sort of disrespect, it's weird 'cause. They respect the guillotine. I guess the guillotine, even as you, They were even respect. A standing guillotine like Jon Jones did on Machida and Weidman did on who did Weidman Kachina standing guillotine? I forget it was duh
but they don't for whatever reason the school yard show because, like aw come on it's because there's so much disclosure and chose chose to as it's brutal spread, the strongest of all choked. If you can get there yeah. I did your backing into but you're pushing off with your legs and digging in with it. I mean a bunch of guys have got Chris Lytle got it on t. You know it's happened, a few. Times in the UFC since then, but I think that I'm pretty sure when Newton got Pat Mill and it was the first time anybody ever pull that choke off yeah. And that's what that's another one of those techniques like all those things are: that's real. That's a real move, okay, you know, and The course of the x amount of years twenty one years since the UFC started we every now and then we'll see one of those things pop up, and then you see him everywhere. You know you see in pop up, I gone ounce everywhere in school, though, isn't it sets of it's a real joy in the sports, a development, the F l kinda, seeing that through yeah I love when new things like that. Come up
you know and the the one of the new things that you're seeing now is unseen in the. U S c at Bob, I know we're gonna see it soon. Is that baseball bat choke from the bottom? Have you seen that just easy to choke the guys are doing it was a geek choke and someone figured out how to do it. No and it's like when you're on the bottom, when the guys, on top of you inside control, you map your arm over his head like this, with like palm up, you grab it like this and pinch it down and it's death. It's death, one guys are good at it. They clamp to hold your neck and your going out. You got a couple of seconds to other tablets, but Jai all sides and if guys are good at it, you know it's those things where you teach a guy. How to do eighteen and he doesn't really know it yet be showing the movement and say: okay, get me to get guillotine as soon as you tries to slap it on you, his wrists, you pull your head up. You posture you yourself, out of it and you're free. You know it's 'cause. You are better the defense than he is, but
when it's a position that you're not used to defending and this baseball bat choke, a is it a lot of people are not used to family is a bunch of positions that people just not used to finding themselves in and those critical seconds is critical, not even seconds like fractions of a second from when realize the choke is getting on to where you have to defend yourself, and if you don't it syncs your neck, like flock like you might not be able to get out of this, is that the window between I'm safe- and I am- I missed the boat I missed the bottom drowning she to your destiny in that window is not crazy. The destinies in those windows and the scrambles. Also, this is a thing that we're seeing in MMA a lot lately is scrambles off the cage and the striking in the scrambles. You seem like these little mini moments. You know where the guys separating and one guy will Anthony the body a the body and the other, isn't as an opening for both guys, the one guy
we decided to take a little bit of a break, breathe now and paste himself and the other guy pushed it, and cap Lies that that's where I spend ninety five percent of my. If I'm coaching the two sides is, really just kind of artist development. So there's the management side. Do it negotiating deal sponsor that type, a thing there's a healthcare side of it, because you have to take care of your body. There's helping people deal with the media, there's finding developmental fights and there's the training aspect. So what what I do in the training side of things is just what you said. It's those MA says transitional moments so will have experts, can we will do that. She just you, had had to finish that joke. What's the best way and the strikers will hold pads in the coach for that, my job is to kind of tie everything all together and tying it together. We have to have a good understanding of the big picture and understand how you start connecting these dots between all these different things and that's the key
to wear. Mma is heading in it's not who can do the best armbar anymore? It's those transitional moments, that's the! Why are you doing what you're doing and finding those opportunities in those moments, yeah. It's also we've had a chance to see this and we see the whole game change I used to be like, for long time like the Mark Coleman era. It was the big powerful wrestler. They could take guys down and smash some and then those guys were fucked body head yeah. But then we found guys like Maurice Smith that could survive. They had really good card no and then he would start dragging you into the later rounds and kicking the shit out of your legs. So then it was like oh well, fuck, there's that you know and then in pride you saw croak up crew, God came on game changer. Now, here's a guy who is got vicious takedown defense, his takedown defense is cat like and
If he kicks you you're, not even going to know what the fuck happened, you're just going to be out cold and is light. Over and over again is him head. Taking the shit out of a million in co head kicking the shit out of e of Chanchen head taking this shit out of everybody boom boom, Vanderlei Boehm What is going to sleep left high, kick bloom and it's like fuck now. There's this guy.
You know and then then we realized. When he came over the UFC. You got to see a couple things going on one there's a lot of speculation like what was he doing with his body when he was in pride. What was he doing as far as like Sup Lamentacion? What was he doing as far as like performance enhancing drugs was he involved in anything because he was a different fighter is a different fighter from pride to the UFC, and then he falcons Agon. You saw the difference between what happens when you get stuck in a cage. What happens when a guy is not used to training or fighting in a cage? I only think he had a cage in his gym before there gone Zograf. I don't think it was used to that shit at all and elbows on the ground as another big element that the UFC had over pride and Gonzaga fuck. Come up before he ever had kicked him. He was just beating the shit out of him on the ground in the elbow namin the head, and we got to see that this transition. You know when a guy like Gonzaga Head kicks a guy like CRO Copping, that's a epic moment in MMA crumbled.
Was it was it he croak up. Prokop was in Epic Moma. MMA. He got to see that First of all, there's another level, the level. We're fighting in pride is amazing, as it was is not the highest level guys like Fujita, guys, Gilbert Arrival, very tough guys where they're, not the high level they're, not they're, not the junior dos Santos is of the world they're, not the Cain, Velasquez of there's a whole nother level, a whole nother thing and it's a beautiful thing about having several organizations, but it's a confusing thing about having several several organizations. 'cause a guy looks like a world beater when he's morning guys who, like mid level fighters, but then he goes. Oh the UFC, and you know you put him in there again. Someone like, like uh,
I'm bored or like a high level guy, and you get to see what he's really made out of this. Probably not the talent pool to support multiple organizations, not yet right, but it seems like they could develop it. The problem is: there's very few people really developing talent, so you have kind of like a couple different approach to things. So here's my. If I'm giving advice to anyone who wants to fight you think you're going to be good. You have to get out of a team individual group training situation as quickly as possible. In what way okay. So when when I got most darted, he hadn't fought before he went from no fights to beating the chassis and become Strikeforce World champion in nineteen months in every single workout he did to the entire time was for him on that day. So I see that's what you're saying so will have training yeah the only time we should give careful. Group training is for sparring sessions, but if
you come from a karate background, I come from a jujitsu background. Are developmental approach to fighting in the UFC is going to be very different? If we do it the same that neither one of us are going to progress as quickly as possible. So you have to find someone who is willing to work really invest time in Enerji into and create a training structure and program for you that you can get from here to here as quickly as possible. I'm a firm believer that starting at the bottom is the worst place to start. You have to take what skills someone already does. Well, I'm presuming they came from a background. Maybe you wrestle there? Maybe you had a black belt. You have to take those approaches in as quickly as possible get them to hear in it. They are often very different trajectory's. What do you do with a young kid was coming up? It doesn't have any skills there just wanting learn MMA, I don't really work with those guys. So what would you say?
One though I say if someone came along like some fifteen year old kid says: hey I'm a huge UFC fan. I want to fight in MMA. How should I get started? I would have him pick one discipline to start for fifteen years old. Go wrestle if you are more drawn to boxing or kick boxing then go do that along the way play an experiment a little bit, but athlete development is changing. Now, there's this this trend for when kids are as young as five six years old, that there's these an intensive training programs have larger cities where there's good resource good coaching, good facilities. They take these kids from an early age. Maybe they trim a football or basketball or hockey. Something like this with the intent of developing professional athletes. This approach is almost producing zero professional athletes. The ones who are successful are the ones who played three and four sports growing up, and then they get to it.
Certain age and then they start narrowing and and kind of defining the best way, whether they're going to do the Australians did it before the Olympics in two thousand. They started to take it a whole bunch of metrics on their athletes. Finding ok, you're, not good enough to win a medal here. Have you thought about this? Try this as there is Althea Disease, they've won national governing body for for their olympic sports, develop. As a result, they did ten times per capita. The man of medals at the US did one two thousand and twelve in in the: U K they did the same thing. They took a little bit further, as example of one woman who is good. I think she was some type of distance runner. Something did all sorts of measurements like that. The wrist to elbow measure This is more technical than than I know, but they found she had this certain measurement in here and said: ok, you're not going to win a medal in this. Have you ever considered rowing? She 'cause I've never done wrong. Three years better shoe is olympic Champion Watts yeah. You could be
Olympic rowing champion in three years will think about fewer already a well trained athlete for something else. It involved that type of cardiovascular stuff. Then you have the specific bio mechanics that fits so few. So if there's bio mechanics are you know what to look for in an athlete you can steer them. Direction. You UK did great with metal count. That's amazing! So I take same approach. I've always done this. I was never I wrestled in college, but I was never never like Dan. You know it was never great in one thing, but I was always really good and I think it'll of it came from my chiropractic background of really looking at somebody figuring out. Ok, here's! What's going on with you finding me a communicate with them and saying? Ok, I think this is the best core
eviction for you, based on all these things. When I lived in LA a train a little bit with Eddie, I love the rubber card right, but for someone like Dan who's got a long, torso zero flexibility in a great wrestling with a sledgehammer of a right hand, should we invest time in enerji on learning a rubber guard, probably not the best strategy for him right. There's other approaches 'cause to get good at you have to put all this Energie Pat was another great example for him. He was heavy punching great wrestling, so we're not going to spend a whole lot of time age to so pets. Maybe thirty years old, we can't spend a whole lot of time working attacks from your back. He has shorter legs and he's a bitch and then be able to hold him down so where to invest his time and energy. It comes back to the whole thing in MMA. Is we don't have enough time Yes, we don't have enough time. You have to now pick and choose so the more information you have to to kind of make those
decisions and help funnel someone? You can speed up an athletes development considerably if you're stuck in a training room, I go to a big map mega camp with seventy fighters or something you're not going to get the quality attention from coaches if you're coming up and you learn the techniques that everyone else is doing. Learning the techniques that are best for you in theory, there's a lot of guys that are saying that you know they're switching camps because they're saying that the camp that there at they don't get enough attention an when they spar it's just wars and no one, no one's being real technical. Do you see that a lot all the time you can really? I can watch at one time in one training session, three or four people. I've always had a really small group of people who have had success, moving people up quickly and helping them become really good at what they do. By taking this approach, and if I had, if I was matching forty people
where was it event once I heard this one guy have pretty well known fight ago. I tell my managers all time, just think about me for one minute a day, and I turned him of I very careful what you ask for she just may get that you know. My theory is this: if you're going to ask somebody to go, get in their underwear and fight in a cage for their money to pay the rent that month, that person deserves a lot of attention. Yeah, that's a good way to look at, especially if my income comes with their. Access. I'm saying: oh, hey, I'm it's here and you're going to go in a cage and fight. You deserve every everything that I can give you that's what you deserve, but it's hard for people to find. Someone like you, that's willing to do that. There's not that many of you guys out there there's a lot of guys that are doing it with all due respect, I think they're doing a cursory job, yeah I'll for sure.
Like if you want becoming a manager- and I may now go up to any fighter and say I can get you a bunch of sponsorships and they'll immediately sign with you, yeah there's no big picture thought to what's being done in ninety five percent of these guys. Well, it's a lot like being a young stand up. Comedian is that you're starving and you looking for someone to come along. It's going to Lee V8 some of that financial pressure. So I'm going to get you gigs that I get you sponsors I get you fights I can get. In the ballot or I can get you in the UFC. I can get you into the Tfa or whatever the fuck you're going to fight in yeah, and that's the big thing is like these young fighters that are fucking, barely hanging on their barely making ends meet and someone comes along and their smooth talking and Then they got to get rid of those fuckers when things go goods the chance of that guy or whoever developing you uh have long term success in your courage. Virtually slim to none ever will be end. It all will take a commission check here. Commission check here. Maybe it's a bad business decision for me is probably ways to make more money by having
thirty people, but there's not to be excellent now and we're here to win championships. If you ever see me in the corner, if you You see me working with something 'cause. I expect them to go win that fight in my heart. I believe that they're going to win that fight or us I shouldn't be there- you advise Cummings to take the fight with Cormier. That had to be a fight where you like, who this is a is a tricky, there's like seven days notice. Writing yeah they're all tricky I got most are like that in dream. In Sengoku as well, I create a bidding war.
Between dream in Sango, Como didn't have anything to his name and he fought for a huge person. I mean he was good for a while after that, one fight and it went really well form he went and knocked out Travis View in a minute or two and it it started. His whole career with Pat Pat is pride, the most challenging experience I've had with somebody, because from the time I start work when people knew he was good like I saw him spark gifts to send three weeks before Jon Jones and Pat was six weeks off of minor knee injury, and I saw how that one if you've ever found anyone who's train with Pat Cummings, went oh boy overnight, Aspirin is savage. He is so good. So we saw the king's very fight, the king's, very fight. You got to see what is really came. You know what that was. Fifty percent of him, that's the main. I still wasn't terribly pleased with that performs. He was he's so much better than that he's a tough talk, he's
and Kingsbury, was in there not to win. He was in there to get by which is hard to finish someone in those situations, but well he was there to win for the first couple of minutes, but Yeah, like I read some interviews, he said you know my my personal goal here is to get through this. It wasn't I'm going to smash. This guy was a deferment how he had. He done a few, I, what concessions and that sort of like changed his whole outlook on life, hey it kinda, coming to a very different person. Something happens to you. We cross over the other side yeah, especially if you're a guy who's like made a living being a savage I also know it's difficult to continue for long periods of time. Yeah so pack up the car and I got the whole story- was true. I'd fifty guys turned him down hey if it got to the point where I'm offering promoters and how much do I have to pay you to get him a fight and the best stories is,
but in these cassette, okay, all I want to sign him to a five fight deal. I said, okay, because you have to give me a hundred tickets, that's how much of the ticket thirty dollars. I said. Okay, show me to pay you three thousand dollars every time. Pat fights, okay, I'll pay that and your you pay for your travel, Inn Hotel, so now we're just laughing so now it will call to do this. An exclusive deal. I have to pay him. Fifteen thousand dollars to sign Patton exclusive Deal of was ridiculous, even that I couldn't find him opponent wow. So you agree to this and you know I'm not going to do that, but I still find us an opponent. Of course. He never had anybody and that's a hilarious, Deldo Pat I were, thing to say what organization and I don't ever remember three letters on these, because I have yet three letters submit, but we are going everywhere. I mean if, if you were, if you I was, I was trying I, which
find opponents forum then set him up for ok, I have an opponent, here's this will pay for all this known want to fight PAC coming so we got the call you know it was. It was a whole mad rush padded. This point three weeks early had started working at this coffee shop, so he's giving up at two hundred in the morning going to the coffee, shop, training, you're sleeping fifty five hours a night. This went on for three weeks and I barged into the coffee shop and said: hey Dana's on the phone you want to fight Daniel. He goes yes absolutely and that's how everything got going, but we had to quit the job because they didn't want to talk on now. That's all they told me was fired. They said pack, your stuff go home, I'm like c and then then, literally twelve hours later ten hours later, he's live on fox talking shit to Daniel, I haven't, slept in twenty four hours and then the
here's a lot of other people, don't undersea all the seal, the behind the scenes stuff. So that was the days to twenty four hours, no sleep, and then we have to do all of your medicals in a day. That's a huge task. There's a whole bunch of media, try to work some training in there and then a couple days later were on. I think I have this for nights. I think I slept two hours a night monster by time we get to Vegas. He super happy real, tax, but tired- and I have this this picture of this gauge measure pressure gauge in the middle. The needles right here. This is likely on our com. Everything is centered. The needle goes this way. It's all will call negative emotions like maybe a little worry anxiety, fear panic and we started berry into the red section on the other side is all positive emotions because the green side, we have like happiness, joy excitement to call confidence and then you kind of get to this manic like almost right before your fight you're, so ready to go if you're,
needle is on either side of this you're burning enerji. So even if you get into a sitter impact, was super happy. He is great the media. I felt great about things all week because he was so relaxed feeling good, but he was almost feeling too excited into happy so wherever that needle is on either side. You're burning enerji then come fight time. You haven't slept for three weeks even doing this job. All of a sudden, you have this huge adrenaline dress up. No one will fight I'm in the UFC in a co main event. Here we are against Daniel. I think what happened in the fight is, he keep stop being a participant became an observer. He stepped out of the moment in that situation, so we just overwhelmed by it by the whole thing yeah, not overwhelm like in the sense that it was too much. She didn't want to be. There there's different types of overwhelmed right. He had just expanded so much energy that you, you only have so much energy. You can only push so
even if it's all really good positive things, if you It amazing things happen in your life. You still have to take a breath yeah. Return to center. It's like, if you take a pendulum, you hold it up. It's going to swing wildly for a while before it settles back down again your job. If you're going do it be involved with the sport like this, is you have to keep centered and info? Yes, so I want a bunch of money. Ok, oh I just lost a fight, ok and the guy who is best at this. I think just naturally, personality wise was Dan. Dan was always right here in a big fight. They sent me FIG Dan could win a million dollars on it just a little bump up over the
He was always very centered lip balm and I think that's one reason why he was so successful. Ipad is also like that, but he was just thrown into this environment where there was so much energy being spent that by the time he came into the fight, it was difficult to stay involved with that, I'm not saying that he would have won Daniel is clearly the better fighter. Don't misunderstand I'm saying here, but you have to kind of look at the whole arc of this experience and not only just with fight week. You have to take that same overall view of your career. So if you're a young fighter and you're struggling, that's good, you know struggle worry about how you're going to pay your rent. That's not a bad thing! You have to look at everything that you're doing in the bigger picture of things and for me the bigger pictures we want to win championships in the UFC. That is the whole goal. Anything less than that could go. Do something else. Don't risk this type of lifestyle. If that is not your intent, how many different guys you working with now
I have three. I managed three fighters in the OC, Pat Dennis Bermudez who's, fighting the fucking animal, oh boy, the the most exciting fighter in the UFC that no one talks about yeah. What is up with that? I'm confused. You know when the one hundred and forty five pound title big gets sorted out. Nobody starts talking everyone's talking about Cubbon wow, come Conor, Mcgregor didn't get Dennis Bermudez for this big Boston fight. Why is he fighting Dennis, for instance, either stylistically, it's better. They want Connor to keep winning yes match him up with the striker who knows Dennis is a striker he's. A striker and a yeah, but Dennis is fucking. Dennis is MMA wrestling and mma him and Pat are right. Up there I mean Dennis's Dennis is a nightmare who's the fucking, and so exciting good luck to him. Hispanic Dennis is going to be Dennis. Can beach. I expect us to be champion in twelve months.
Well, I'm just he's a weird one to be because he's like this, like a dark horse, he's a guy that people just are not talking about? I just don't understand it. I mean I think, there's legitimate reason why people talking about CUB, Swanson and Frankie EDGAR and obviously legitimate reason why people talking about Conor, several reasons, charisma and skill? so there's a lot he's got the in fact it got it all Bermudez is a savage he's, never lost the UFC, except for that one fight, Diego Brandow, every fight. Since he's one and he's look better. Every time he's been out there on top of that, he's one five performance bonuses, these Google most exciting fighter in the entire UFC. So what the is going on, sometimes it takes fans awhile to catch on. Is that what it is yeah well once they? Finally,
you catch on they be like. Oh yeah, let's go back and watch his other fights like oh shit within six months, he's going to be a huge star in the UFC, and it's actually I don't mind it, I'm happy for him for it 'cause it. Let's them build, he needs he needed time. He's got great coaching, so he the way Dennis works. His home base is on long island, transit, long island man, Bellmore Kickboxing, fantastic coaches there in good training partners there he starts his key
sat with me in the finishes with us out here. So what Dennis need to work on was discover. New thing. I've been doing over the past couple years is: is pacing during a fight camp and finding an athlete's workload, that's very difficult to do to find out how much you can push someone when they start to pull back everyone's, not the same to now when guys start camps, they get for me a schedule of eight weeks or, however long that we have in that schedules, broken down in the weeks are color coded by intensity knows all their workouts are plotted out. Now that the plans never work out. I believe that all plans are useless, but the acting of planning is essential. There's so much that you did you derive from that, so they can see how their whole eight weeks are going to look to Dennis. It just took some time to find his his pacing
the two fights of heat that that he would do a real clothes for him. I think it was Matt Grice and maybe Holloway. He was completely over train coming to this Vici. I realized I'd never seen an overturned athlete before Dennis came out like them at all okay, so it was just healthy food ice bath. Some soft tissue work, some light movement stuff to get back. How many days out, I was two and a half weeks out the two and a half weeks, so you knew he was over trained up totally. I realize I realize I had never seen the look on his face. I wanted
yeah when I was for his enerji too. What about heart rate? I don't I am. I don't remember I don't remember his heart rate was, but it was a more a general sense and feeling of somebody, it's more. You could take heart. You could draw this up, but the best you're going to get is really looking at someone getting a sense of how they feel, and that only comes with time. So I have to have like a year to really get to know an athlete and for them to know me and for us it kind of go through these Upson downs together that always happen at everyone's career, so that was Dennis is challenge this is finding his pacing during his camp and he's really got that dowdy, and we saw that with claim. He went there in smash clay, Guida yeah- that was pretty God, damn impressive, not even remotely competitive and now he's he's coming up again here in a couple weeks and who is he fighting Lohmus? Oh, that's a good fight. What what card is that? Is that, go city card, so he's he's just under the co main events. The UFC is now pushed him up to that level. He'll he'll start getting a lot of attention and he's he's a guy to that is
tough as any man. If it was a thousand years ago, dentist on the front front line with an ax in his hand for sure he's just the legitimate, tough guy and he's smart about strain, he's super coachable and he listens, which is a very rare, trait and someone who's. One hundred and seventy five choose who they go: the way, usually win a bunch of fights, and you stop doing everything everything that you're doing beforehand Dennis hasn't taken that approach. So for this one we worked at a company called hypoxic. Oh he's been sleeping in an altitude tent for the past five weeks. Simulating the elevation. That's right is the highest elevation UFC ever seven thousand plus feet yeah. So he has that to to help there he's got. We use a Normatec recovery system to help kind of resource that, let's just compression leg, okay, yeah I've seen those you were telling me about that. I've seen on videos yeah we've been using those for four years now and what to do it basically helps blood flow, could backyard so
your heart squeezes at arterial blood is under high pressure, so it squeeze. It goes down by the time it gets to your venous system, get returned. Your heart is low pressure. So there's one way valves in your veins and when you walk in your muscle squeeze it helps pump the blood back up again, there's a valve to get it back to your heart with the Normatec. They look like these big hockey pants. It inflates starting at your foot. In all the way up. We have ones for the arms in the hips too, and they help squeeze that blood lymphatic system back to your heart. So you recover quicker and it's incredible. You could take two three days. If you go pump your legs for an hour or two, it's like a day and a half a recovery.
Really yeah that much different, huge difference I go for several years ago. I first got on the test that I squatted was in great shape. I squatted heavy. I ran for an hour and did sprints. I should have been wrecked. I pump for three hours watching a movie on the tv at night got up in the next one. I had no soreness in my legs. My was super store, but it didn't. We didn't have the hip one yet, so I came up to your hive to your thighs. No, like it really made me rethink Keeling an entry is maybe it's nothing more than circulation. Issues really what about cryotherapy. If you guys messed around with that yeah, we do cold, plunges cold, plunges ice paths. Have you seen those the cryo chambers that the nine and I've been to one we tested out. It didn't get a whole lot out of it. Well, did you go to the one that is neck down or the one the step and your whole body is yeah. The neck tells us good. I've done both the neck down is okay, but the the whole body one is the jet, where there were
You have to put on a face, mask and haven't done that I want to show you it to the place in LA cryo, healthcare in LA's, fucking, amazing, two hundred and fifty degrees below zero. You going for three minutes he get out, you get on an elliptical machine. You warm up for like five hundred and ten minutes, and then you go back in for another three two hundred and fifty below zero, and it feels like two hundred and fifty below zero. The other ones don't feel like it. It's like yeah, I'm cold down there, but my heads not cold, so it's not that it's just not the same, but this one, When you get out you like, once you get out of it, it's like her whole body, just like fucking electricals, like things are crackling, because you know your skin is thirty. Nine degrees mean you're on the verge of dying and then Wuj go back until like a normal room temperature with things like this recovery is completely overlooked in this sport thanks away, overtraining is rampant in recovery is not nearly what it needs yeah that that's an issue with amateur wrestling as well. Right I mean
how much wrestling almost all the athletes are over trained by the time I was twenty one I was done. My neck was so messed up. I was finished. Yeah I mean amateur wrestling is also you're, also one thousand eight hundred and nineteen twenty. You know you can do a lot of things right in my warm up. Here's my warm up at nineteen ready. Let's go right!
The nineteen year old warm up now doesn't work like that's, probably how you getting fucked up to, though uh sure yeah, but you have to look it. That's why? If you're going to work with an athlete, you have to be thinking. Ok, we want you to go in Belton, defended seven eight times, so you can make a bunch of money and not have to work again. He hasn't been thinking about that in the beginning. You can't wait until that happens, then try to do it all of a sudden if you're a guy like we had this guy fight in the UFC used to train with us and they always come out, did ten rounds today and I always had the same response. How many runs your fight? You go three and a kind of look at it. We never kind of never really got that and, as a result, his body was done had some other issues and his career is over. So unless you look at the
overall overall arc of your career and how much you're going to push your body. You only have so much you only have you can only do so much that's hard to tell young fire, though, isn't it that you only have so much and they pull back, don't push as hard there's a way. To tell his great example, I have my first female who's just signed to the sea name is Kyle and current and she came out to rain about a year ago and she was what happens a lot of people. You know she's in the class. It's working with her, and she approached I liked her from the beginning. There's something about my first evaluation. Mathlete is purely emotional. I look at them. I can usually tell if they're going to be good this quickly, whole bunch of other things has to happen. I have to see work ethic. We have to have a connection. I have to be passionate about them. They have to connect with me all these things have to happen, but she had something special. In the beginning, but I didn't spend a whole lot of time with her and she asked me to manager an eve
There is no future for the UFC didn't have a division in her weight class. I found myself saying yes and kind of started this development process with her, so we started really five months ago and we threw away everything that she was doing. She had never really trained before. But if you look at, if you pull her picture up, she's really put together, she beautiful girl, she's super strong, great hiss, but didn't didn't really know how to use all this. We started from the beginning. I said: listen, give give me four months. Here's what we're going to do come October, wait to see how good you are- and here we are in now the October november- she's Incre now. She can't debut in November twenty seconds against Paige Vanzant, and we took the same approach. What works for you today and what's her background initially, she wrestled in high school and she's got a striking background. She got a beautiful, striking style. It's pretty rare to have a check wrestle in high school yeah well she's from Hawaii. They all seem to like to fight over there, but she's she's. She could be a big star in the UFC, but we took the same development approach. So what I need
find out was 'cause. I got a sense that she really hadn't had never had structured training camps before she just kind of go workout and then go fight. So I took on two different sessions over the summer. I said: ok, we're going to take the next three weeks. I'm going to really going to push you and I found out. Where is her limit when to her body start pulling back? When did emotionally she start kind of turning off a little bit and then we we did that twice. So when it came into this fight camp, I had a real good sense of how much I could push her and when and pull her back, and it makes all the difference for developing an athlete. It's just hard to find someone who's willing to put that kind of attention to someone's career, still, there's very few people who do it. That's why I said that the town cool. Anime is not very big because we don't have structured training environments. Like a professional team, that's got an Ortho there at practice that has physical therapist there, the it it's. So it's my job to put that together. So we'll do I have
or psychologists. I work with a few came, I'm going to work with you, I'm going to manage you and we're going to start looking at your training. A manager should be involved with the training. A manager should have relationships with the coaches, making sure that their athlete that that is your advocate. I have relationships with doctors. If someone needs to see an orthopedic surgery work with one of the best orthopedic surgeons to two month. Wait to get in will take it in within two days. If you need a sports psychologist, we're going to make sure that happens, for you have to see a dermatologist going to get you in a meeting way to make sure that happens, because the goal is not what sponsor did you get me today? This goal is, I want you to go win. I want to win a belt. Some Nike calls us not. So some little sponsor is going to give you an extra one thousand five hundred bucks for this five got your free, Frigerator, yeah, ok, great but unfortunate,
healthy, that most fighters have that most camps. Have it it's not. These trainers, don't care bout there, guys if you're running a gym the fighters not going to bring money into your gym. You have to divert your attention to running classes and all the other things. If you have forty fighters in there, you can't give all of them the same my attention that they deserve. So you really have to pick favourites and you really have to get behind your athlete and give them every opportunity that they can have when do foresee, perhaps developing a team of people under you that do similar things, you can broaden your approach and pick more athletes, or do you think that the talent pool of potential champions is so small that if you do
that it would almost be like a point of diminishing returns. I don't know I mean that's hard to say I have a great team around may have prayed for striking coaches that I work with who you work with the striking coaches. Not your men are brought together for a guy twelve years, Danny Presidente Box. Over years she got a king most started recently with the and the hard dock in LA and they all have different approaches to things simple again. Part of my job is our manager is to help them develop. Relationships with other coaches is an mma. There can't be in boxing. You can be the guy right in with the one guy in MMA. There's too many things that have to happen to my job is to introduce people and help them develop relationships. So they can. I want you to have a relationship with your striking coach and your strength and conditioning coach and all this type of thing. This is how you really act. So I have a great team of people that I work with
with these guys and I kind of oversee things. I've never worked out with hard dog well, but I want to because he's got some really neat ideas about, and I may first of all great kick boxer and some of the best leg kick technique ever seen in the UFC yeah fantastic leg kicks, I mean just there. He teaches them very different. He his whole style of teaching is very diffuse, gave very unique point of view yeah, that's what I'm saying he doesn't? He doesn't believe in head movement. He him and in the mark, dellagrotte e were going on it when we're in Vegas not aggressively just debating back and forth, because I don't believe in head movement to door had moved he's like he has his philosophy about not taking your head. The center line. Like I don't know what is approaches, I don't based on balance. He doesn't ever want want you to be in position. We you're out of balance right Well, then, how do you explain a guy like Dominick, Cruz, who's, all head movement and is a fucking monsters always to
do it right and that's why my approach? Isn't it's not Ryan's way? This is the way that we're going to do it. My way is: ok, Joe here's, your body type here, and here's what you feel most comfortable, here's your natural style. What can we do? What feels best for you? destruction with Jodie? Would I like this feels better? Let's go in this direction. Got a guy like a cub Swanson is why golden energetic and very unpredictable and creative in there? You would keep it in force that for sure yeah you know I started before I got her. I start work with Gloria. We just had the beginning and I'm you know going to tell Eric Press, oh okay, yeah, yeah and the whole thing we've got going as crazy, coils, crazy. You know he even said coach, I'm crazy and I work I said you're, not I think you've been told, he's crazy, so much he started to believe. Oh, I'm crazy. What like wild and won't fall?
plan all the steps, so I was kind of expecting that of him, but he was the complete opposite. He was super coach of all fall the plan and did all those things. So it's it's not only the technical side of things. It's helping. Someone understand how they fit in in helping them understand themselves a little bit better to have. Well, if you've, all I heard that you're crazy with a that becomes a self fulfilling prophecy of seventeen. Don't start the following game plans and things like you would if he said no he's, actually a super discipline, hard working guy, who needs a bit of guidance and structure in this particular way. How I'd worth Goya's totally different impact goal is younger, Thailand's, the twenty three year old female. I have to work with her different than Pat who's, a thirty three year old guys had no more experience, and she, yes there's, a big thing that happens with fighters and it's the relationships that they have outside of fighting sabotaging their fighting careers. It's a fucking, huge thing, 'cause fighters
it's is an incredibly emotionally involved thing to do with your life. There is a involved in winning and losing the highs are so high. The lows are so low and they often times seat comfort in relationships like girlfriends that you can't live without boyfriends. He can't live without, and I gotta think that for the female fighters, it's probably even more difficult because in less they are fighting like as a female fighter, develops and grows and gets to like a place where she perhaps challenging for a championship unless she's dating a similar level fighter who can kind of relate, You know if she's here dating a guy, I've never heard of a fucking woman is a fighter dating guys down a fighter. Have you heard of it? I've never heard of it, and I never thought about that. I mean Skylands fortunate. Her boyfriend is a professional surfer for now. What do you mean? Well once he starts kicking peoples asses in the UFC and fucking moving up the ladder, and this surfer dude
sit on the sidelines going home. I guess anything is possible. There are two release really solid, good people. That's her there, yeah she's, beautiful she's, a huge star was a say in her chest. It's some type of religious, saying, okay, but yet that the trouble, if you have some, is super talented, almost all the time. It's not what happens in the cage in the gym. It's their challenge. It's everything that happens afterwards, yeah the friends of the grew up with that are still kind of fucking up and holding them back, and then it's the all the hanger. As soon as you get famous, you see all that you'll get phone calls from all sorts of weird people who promise you weird things like add a fighter. It got pretty famous all of a sudden. This manager is calling. I have multiple gets you multiple sponsors with fortune. Five hundred companies. Ok, good, because it's it's all bullshit, but you'll get that soon. As someone gets famous, you have fifty people in
here by the way, there's not a single fortune. Five hundred company that sponsors fighters- I now yeah I mean, but they didn't nike- is probably a fortune five hundred company right yeah. So it's probably ninety, that's about it but handle fortune five hundred company result of our eyes as well. I can't I don't even know how to have this conversation I fortune. Five hundred think it is right is like for five I can. I can. I am honored top corporations in the world right, that's what it means sure one fifteen yeah they so like you anyway. So what had a system look at famous and all of a sudden everyone? We should be doing this. Why aren't you doing this? You should be doing and that and all of a sudden that chatter becomes too much and people spin off, and it happens it's more common than than not right. So you to get famous most likely you're going to do all that. I, like I, like to examine the Porsche more imposed more of someone's career and go ok. Here's everything you did right here is all things you did wrong. It's shocking! How many people go? Ok will do the same thing over and over.
Like imagine if you were selling a widget, you're selling, and you sold ten million of them by these sales channels, marketing plan in this color. This was your biggest one and you sold ten million. Then we went I'm going to sell on a different shape of different color in a totally different way. I mean in a business sense. That would be ridiculous, but this happens. All the time with fighters. Now. How does that work like say what? If you had a fight like? Let's let's look at Chris Weidman's. First fight with Anderson Silva now, John Donna, who is a brilliant guy, it was the trainer first thing, on her says when I go into the cage, I said. Congratulations and he goes. I don't like how is getting hit wells leg. Kicks. Does the first thing he said, so we really gotta work on that. That was the first thing out of his mouth. So what happens in the second fight? Weidman checks the leg. Take some breaks. Anderson's, like I mean literally, checked, no leg kicks their first fight, broke Anderson's leg in the second fight with leg kicks, but it's that
I'm a trainer that looks at you having the most insane victory, maybe eh we're in the middle weight division, you're fighting the greatest of all time who clowns people, he clowns you an you fuck in blast him into another dimension with a left hook and then basketball, his head off the ground. I see in the cage moments later and the first thing the trainer says I don't like. I was getting hit with a slight kicks. Like that's the kind of mother fuck You want you yeah! You want to I was not like the kids, the best ever he's the past here it up. No ones cannot beat your kid you're, the best you know you don't want that guy you want the guy who's saying. Ok, let's look at what you did right and let's look at what was horribly wrong. It depends on the athlete how you approach that that's the thing right-
everyone's different, maybe with Chris Weidman out on the him. Well, it had lunch one time. It's real nice guy. I've never worked with him, but you have to talk to everybody differently. Everyone is not the same when you're a funny. Do food too, because you're not a schmoozer, your real, no bullshit kind of guy and some people are not good with that. Now, a lot of people aren't and that's well, you've had relationships with fighters weather like in a certain point time. It's like! Ok, we can do this anymore and successful guys annoying alright. Well, we gave give it a shot, but it they didn't want to listen to what you're saying and they would like question like. Are you? You never even had a fight in the hood that kind of shit right. It happens after big wins, which is the odd part about it. Like I had a guy who won two big fights that came in the room and show technic, he look the other way he was done. I'm not listening to you anymore. Wow career didn't go well after that, but I did this happen.
All the time, but you know what is that? What do you think? That is that I'm obviously it's ego, but what is that? Where a fight? There does not want to continue to grow and can't step outside themselves, look and say well, this is a position that I may be and- and this is some knowledge that I should acquire it's very difficult to look at what you're doing and go I'm. This isn't right. I need to make these changes or sometimes even hard to go boy. It took me a lot of work to Yet here I think it's kind of natural- my daughter is seven she's in second grade and she's a gymnast, so this year she just started winning everything right. She won every event in the all around in two or three different meats and she got a little cocky and stuffed working that hard in the gym. Even her coach told me so I got this and then she lost and was pissed. I mean good old fashioned pet. My wife tried to bring her back on like not not let her be angry. God like this right, because it wasn't like a crybaby pissed. It was like
right. So I think sometimes, when success comes to you, you start to believe that you're invincible and you see this in business all time. You know people are successful in business and they'll start a new business and fail miserably happen to me when I first got started, decide successful chiropractic offices in Australia. That happened right away. I was young twenty six years old and all of a sudden I tried something new and lost everything I couldn't lose. I knew this. I got this I've made about. You know. I've done all these things well and something happens in the brain is very, very difficult to keep resetting yourself going. Ok, today's a new day, here's what worked from our last one here is we're going to do next, because often, what happens to if someone has a big LOS, they want to change everything about with
they were doing yeah. I need new train part of new coach. Have to do this as well. Let's think about it. You had all this success up until this point. Do we need to change everything or do we need to make a small adjustment in this one area and often that's what it is, but people forever reason they can't. They can't make the adjustment Pat's been really good. With that you know he had a big loss or Daniel. That was those are hard for people to come back with. In that sense, and people don't realize everything you trained, not many people are going to do it. Pet did, which is suffer for three one, slash two,
four years train everyday. Go through this whole process, not make any money. You know every year birthday get one year old, they finally gets a shot and then he loses like that. It's very hard to come back and to his credit. He did that and we looked at everything we said. Ok, here's a couple areas that we need to change. It wasn't throw away the playbook and we start over again. It was here's what we need to do and we do that for every camp. Some people are willing to do it. Most people are not, which is why again we talk about. Is there gonna be enough talent, development in this area? It's very hard to get some prepared to be successful in the long time in the cage. 'cause most guys you get signed to the FC. Are there for a couple of fights and that's it? How did you decide to dedicate your time in your life to this, because this is a very tricky position to be in because you're, not the master of your own destiny? You are the mast of
creating the opportunities for someone else to achieve their destiny in your destiny is essentially tied in yeah to them tied in to their work ethic. There will power their focus there, the all the their their athleticism their natural talents wells, their their intuition and those in ten changeable factors like the toughness that Dan has or you know, did the the free this isn't that some other fighters have there's so many that factors and your life you're very fucking, smart guy, but your life is tide in with their success and not sound that smart now doing what you do, because it's working. But how did you I mean you? I don't know I mean times right: yeah yeah, that there's always stuff that I think it's kind of my personality. When I finish care practice go. I got a great offer in Phoenix from an amazing doctor who is a bit mentor to me and instead I with no money in my pocket, but a one way ticket to Australia. My
One hundred and fifty pound neapolitan massive with not enough minding emetic warranty in thirty days later and went and made it work. So I guess it's my purse what made you decide to do that. I knew I want to move to. Another country was either Costa Rica or Australia, and I chose a stray kitten established, chiropractic association there and I admit, an aussie girl which made the move a little bit easier and they bought a one way. Ticket landed there with no money, but it taught me a valuable lesson because I have made this decision eighteen months prior for eighteen months every day. I said this same monitor to myself. I think that the intention is so important in your life and what you decide to focus on. I mean really focus on with all of your enerji I've,
that if you're in that place with full trust that the universal direct you in this in this direction, awesome woo, Crazytalk, sounds really crazy right. So every day I said to myself for eighteen months, I'm going to move to Australia and I live in the tropics. I'm going to have my own practices, it's going to be great, I'm going to move to Australia and I live in the tropics. I said this mantra overran twenty times, because of the check. Now I just I looked at Australia, I thought it was great and looks like a nice place. I want to move another country in here I go and I wanted to live in the tropics. I've been to the Caribbean at fourteen and sitting on Saint Croix on January second, and it's eighty eight degrees and I'm fourteen, I don't understand where they were places like this, and I lived where I did this to just didn't, didn't add uh to me so I decided I wanted to live in the tropics. Australia seemed like a good place, so I landed there hated it. The relationship was done with the girl. I don't have enough. My dog, that is ticking, down, I gotta come up with one thousand five hundred dollars to get him out of quarantine right.
No. I've never had a job before my only other skill was throwing people out of a bar, and now I had to go start a business, be it find some way to make this work three one slash. Two weeks later, three days before my dogs do to get quarantine. I owned three pray. This is in the Whitsunday Islands. If you they look up the word. Son die. How did you do that? I believe it's a power of intention, but I heard Something from somebody got in a car drove up. Fourteen hours met a doctor who want to get out of there, quick she sold me or practices for five thousand dollars that she agreed to. Let me pay one thousand dollars a month over five months. I walked in there my first day and made like eight hundred dollars at my first day on twenty six years old, went and got my dog out of quarantine, That was the kind that was my start. Why? But I was willing. How did you find out about her? So this is this Pre, Google! Well, that's that's here.
Thing to what I would do is. I would get chiropractic journals at the at the library that there was called less and just because of chiropractic now would cold, call, chiropractors and just say: what's it like in that area, I would just call people right and that's how I ended up say was there for five years and I would fly over to Japan. Meet Dan and then came back and decided that I want to make it now. The two thousand and two am I made there- wasn't really a way to make a living doing this stuff, not much now, but that's what I wanted to do and I had some other great things happen, but I think You asked me why I am willing to do it. I think if I really trust my gut, my intuition, that that I'm gonna be okay into the process. I met Kevin James and worked with him for a year and got involved this movie stuff and create a television show that we sold the fox the ultimate didn't get picked up at all. Again, all these other things start to happen. I think if I really try hello how
that's the weirdest shit ever my computer just decided to start playing you. You just heard your own voice back computer yeah, but that's bizarre. That's never done that before. But not know what, if I didn't, have it on that that uh page, I don't know the fuck happen. I wasn't even touching my computer anyway, not important. So for me it for me. It's about really trusting that instinct that this is going to be there thing to do, even if there's not any evidence that this is going to workout you were involved with team quest like even pre this right. I I, the name team Quest and this was back when Randy fought Tony Hama in like ninety six. He started in ninety seven yeah. He fought I didn't have anything tony. How was his first fight in the UFC? I was the choke them yeah. I think there's two thousand ninety seven yeah well
I had known Dan and in those guys from college and kind of came up with them and the full fighting started everything kind of came from there and every step of the way I looked at what skills that I would need to develop to be successful. So initially it was all soft tissue, chiropractic stuff, and then more and more into nutrition, and then I realized. I really like the training side of things and I was only I've only been involved with very high level camps, but very high level. Athlete has been my whole experience, lucky shit. Ninety seven may 30th one thousand nine hundred and ninety seven. So.
I was there for that. I was there for that and Steve Graham fight afterwards. Steam Graham, was a guy who a lot of people had a lot of a lot of hope for a lot of people thought the guy was gonna, be something special, a grant big strong, fast athletic a bit Randy just pick them up smash them, yeah, dump them on his back and just beat the out of them and then beat the out of V Taurus. Third mma fight the time where everybody thought the v two or was the second coming of Jesus on the screen said on. I think it no known weaknesses what they put on this yeah yeah. That was insane that was a nineteen year older twenty year old V, two or whatever it was from nineteen yeah and had gotten up to like two hundred and forty pounds by then he looked like a lion she didn't come out of. His trailer Randall is in the cage waiting of that number and then there's a that's right. That was the infamous
he had a worm. Excuse right. I never heard this design is Randy just kind of hanging out in the case that there was some sort of parasitic issue that it was thinking it. He was also training with this guy who wind up dead, this guy Name Curtis, who was's bodybuilder that we would Eddie Bravo was Eddie, was my friend even way back down from when we were at John Jocks and Eddie was like blue belt or a purple belt, for I think it was, might have been even Bluebell back then, but we want it working out the gym with this dude. At the same time, you know we weren't working out with him, but veto trainer was just about his purple as a guy can get and still be a white guy and is the weirdest shit ever I mean I don't know what the fuck he was on but I assume it was everything all together at once and we
call garden hoses because he had veins like fucking garden hoses on his body. I mean they were just the most retarded veins, very senior life and he was enormous who's, maybe five hundred and ten and proud a three hundred fifty pounds low and just just purple. He would work. I used to a strength, training. He was be towards buddy trainer body builder supplier of my, can steroids or whatever the fuck it was whatever was going on, but Victor had gotten up to two hundred and forty, and this is over the course of you know, fucking year again about forty pounds of muscle, and it was when everybody was worried about Mark Coleman, everybody. I worried about the fucking hammer, because they'd seen Coleman in his prime stud wrestler, who hit that fuckin or double on you, come press you into the cage and just beat the piss out of people and everybody was and how do I keep this fucking guy off me and
solution was get as big as Coleman and Coleman was two hundred and fifty five just just jack to the tits, and and when he fought Maurice nobody give them gave me shot. Everybody was like you know, more he's got no shot is going to get smashed. I remember talking to Maurice before the fight and before the fight. I was supposed to thing for NBC, where I was bill. Bob Costas used to have that show later on that show later. And he had left- and they were looking for new hosts, so they would do- is a different person hosted for a week as when I was on news radio and I was hosting for a week. And so I was talking to Maurice- and you know, call me Joseph Joseph we're going to do that tv thing. Let's do that tv thing I was like yeah yeah will do it, I'm thinking this poor fucking guy is going to fight Mark Mark Coleman, and he's like so common oblivious like he doesn't even Does he realize who is fighting? Does he know he's? Of course you do. You know I was the one who is ridiculous. More
was so calm and relaxed because he had insane cardio. You Maurice would slim a swim, wow after lap me mean it was just dedicated to cardio. There was like a big part of his training regiment, so his eye Yeah was just ride the storm in the beginning and then start getting that big fucker tired out like he was the first I had to realize you can't really be that big man. You can't sustain that cape. I have met him with him too right yep. Yep he had met him any other world class kickboxing skills. Maurice was the first guy to fight in the US. The first got to fight in MMA that had legit world championship, kickboxing skills and remember when he fought Conan Silveira, that was the first head kick KO. We ever saw in a high level fight specially against brazilian Jujitsu black belt, like brazilian Jiu Jitsu Black, but was like having an iron man suit. Back then, like this guys kind of brazilian Jiu. Two black belcamp can't be beat. He can't be fucking, Maurice Klein, bounces Shin off.
Once had, and that was like a new era and then Flott Coleman in the next fight and just fucking dominated Coleman down the stretch and won the title in like one of the biggest upsets ever but detour was in the Mark Coleman school Victor, I mean you think about Victor now looks like a welterweight. I mean now that he's off testosterone, replacement literally looks like he's. One hundred and seventy pounder in between camps back then was just fucking huge and twenty years old, like twenty years old, gigantic and Randy came in and just smashed him just smack.
Jim, just ground him out and just beat him down, and I remember the end of the fight him on top of v torches relentlessly pounding on him, home home people couldn't believe, is like MIKE Tyson getting beat by Buster Douglas. This is camping. I can't can't really be seeing this can't really be happening. Change view towards life for years after that to give v tore a long time to recover from that fight. I bet that was never the same guy for a long time. Now we is, you know now is a mother. Now is probably the best ever these ever been, but it's still that brandy fight the chain
is a lot of shit, so you were involved back then yeah, I'm a real I've been friends with those guys since one thousand nine hundred and ninety two were you up in Oregon with them. No, I would go up, I wouldn't do it. Dulce does now I'll go up with Randy before five couple weeks before Javas Diet, nutrition, get him ready and you were doing it just 'cause your friends and you were still a chiropractor at the time. This is a transitional time, so I had moved back to the US from Australia there for five years. What years were you in the in Australia? Two thousand eight to two thousand three? Maybe two three date: no, he doesn't. I mean, I'm sorry. Ninety eight ninety eight to two thousand two or two three, something like that. So you knew them before you knew them when ran First came to the UFC for the year, or so I knew them years before we had ever heard of fighting with Randy for some of the UFC Light, that's crazy! Who would ever do that
This is like ninety. I think I first met Randy and nineteen. Ninety two him and Dan still had mullets. That's awesome yeah. So this is the safe the years years later, but these are the guys I started everything I do now was cut developed from the training sense of these guys got me started with that from the management says it was them your manager's through Cavanah, they became close with Chandler and Jeff, and they kind of were created at least letting me see. How really well like a top notch entertainment manager? How did they operate? How they handle things? Are these two interesting people to draw from to create this career that I have now and then I have my health care back on top of it, which you know, management is, is client service. Customer service really service, the the personage working with, which is very similar to chiropractic, so the mind set for me was very similar,
and on top of it all. I found out that I had a real knack for marketing business and negotiating and it took a long time to develop, but I ended up here well, Sandrine, Jeffords, similar to your approach to training and managing, and you know developing athletes and that I've been with Jeff since I wasn't open Micro, Jeff and I have been together for I want to see like twenty three years like he got me fresh I was just like. I just had some potential yeah you know and along the way is advised me, you know and move you know. We've made some bad turns and try to figure things out and made some. You know, but that's part of it calls you know. One is especially when something as open ended as a stand up comedy career like who the fuck nose still comes are very similar to fighters. In that sense,
yeah. We never know where it's gonna go yeah, but there's more options for stand up for a fight, a lot about which also victory. Hey is this. Is that, like you, you got to figure out how to win. You know with a stand up. Comic You got to figure out how to be funny, but you have, to you mean, there's a lot of different ways to be funny. You know this just, but if I was to win yeah, but you use likes, example there's some guys who just will not be funny if they're following the wrong guy, like if you follow super wild high energy guy. Let's say like a SAM Kennison like perfect example like Mitch. Hedberg is one of my all time: favorite comedians, but Mitch Hedberg is very slow paced and had a very it's like a silly style here to like sit very silly style. You know I did a piece, a care free gum. Half hour later, I was still worried. It never kicked in and out it's something that it's silly
even funny, but if he followed a guy like Kenison who was fuck catch prey bag. How you would probably not buy into it. You build energies too. Yeah. This is two different. It's too slow, paced, it's like a band sale give guns and roses went on and then right after guns and roses. Some like ballad guy, went on. The same crowd don't want to follow James Brown, yes, perfect example. No one wanted to follow little Richard, no one. To follow. I mean there's a lot of guys like that and Jerry Lee Lewis famously lit the fucking piano on fire after he played 'cause. He didn't want to Chuck berry to go on after him and he said to chuck berry follow that mother, Fucker that's like a famous story might have said Nigger, depending on who you ask but bottom line is, you know, there's
certain guys that, like there was a certain impact that they would have on that fucking stage, guys like Chuck berry guys like Little Richard guys, like you know down. The line has been a lot of like James Brown's by the best example. Just you with a Follow James Brown, James Brown, DOT, dot, dot, dot dot. Can we mean you know you can't you just can't decide fucking shows over and I guess what I meant was along the career trajectory. There's no road map to this. Is it It's you. They have a community you manager, you make these decisions. For me, it's not even about some are going to workout but what you do after that right, It's similar in the fact that you're trying to develop this overall thing. And optimize who you are in how you express it through this thing that you're doing
and this thing you're doing in MMA, is obviously it's a competition. So it's very different, but in the sense that you have to develop Conor Mcgregor's done a great job of letting us know who he is very easy to pick up on that and either like it or dislike. You know exactly who it is and it's kind of fun. You have to help someone Develle, a style and a persona and kind of I hate to use the word brand talking with some of the something that's unique about them that they put out there and, in that sense there's a comedian. Are you the SAM Kinison type or you right? You know. How do you figure out who to be you best it in and I'm a good manager is going to help you in that process along the way yeah, that's it's a unique relationship. You'll, never have a relationship like the one you have with your manager is totally unique. Yeah, it's a very it's a very unique relationship. If you have a manager like you, that is like really dedicated to developing an athlete from the beginning from the start of their,
rear. It's like seeing what it is that takes them to reach their optimum level performance and that changes. How you manage somewhere in the beginning? I have to manage Pat differently now like how I work with Kyle in in a year from now, have to be different when she wins a battle that you have to constantly be changing Kyle and what you're going to find out. One hundred and fifteen there's a bunch of potential weight classes for women right, I mean like right now we only got like one hundred and fifteen, and do you see the Gabby? Garcia is ending in Japan is one hundred and thirty five pound woman for people in Japan, yeah so she made vanderlei, look tiny, yeah, Gabby Garcia! If you don't know, is a women's world Jujitsu champion who is fucking jacked I mean jacked like Tyron, Woodley, jacked and she's a woman. So it's all natural one hundred percent and she's got to lose weight to get down to two hundred and twenty
well she's getting hurt! That's her contract wait! I guess apparently, is like her. She has to be two hundred and twenty, and Finding a woman is one hundred and thirty five pounds sound like get it looking today with vandalay by the way vandalay in between fights Vandal Atef. But at one hundred and eighty five he never weighed one hundred and eighty five you have a chest of all I did was lift weights for that too. So he's pumped up right. There he's been the weight room and look at her, so he was probably two hundred and five to ten back. Then you know in between fights and she's, just enormous look at her neck interface totally looks like a woman to doesn't have any extra testosterone, her body at all, kidding. Well, it's a fucking, the house, that's not good for your coat or So it does not do strange things. I've never seen a clitoris on testosterone, but I can't imagine that's good. Do you not have a computer not connected to the internet? I did have never today,
this afternoon I'll. Look it up I'll text you. I could show you right now. You wanna see it here. She Where, however, you want to take with someone show the rest of the oil will get kicked off a u stream, but yeah. It grows like a penis which makes you think like if it does a little dick. If you just takes a shit load test everyday, like a few years, was Dick Rowe. I'm sure. There's people have got to know the answer to that someone's gotta know the answer yeah. I would imagine a little sure we knew four people could call and ask for ITALY, be so conservative This song, this is an interesting subject to because of
It's going on now with have eliminate it completely, eliminate testosterone, replacement therapy, and you know v tours the whipping boy when it comes to that, because because he had the most spectacular results, I mean you look at how Victor looked when he fought Rich Franklin, whom one first round KO. But you look at his body and then you look at Rich Franklin. We fought Rockhold Bisping when you find an you're looking at this jacked fucking monster with muscles on his teeth. And just ultra super confident and looks like it can't be beat, and so many people attribute that to to take in testosterone and it's it's unfortunate, but it's fascinating. It's unfortunate 'cause, like man Victor accomplished so much I mean, I think, those those three. Lights were some of the most impressive KO's. I've ever seen him stopping Dan in the first round, like that who fucks ever done that who the fuck has ever dominated down like that meme, crazy him and Dan, was on testosterone the same time too. You know him '
Oping Rockhold like that him head kicking Bisping, mean I'll, say this about, because people have mentioned about Dan into sorcerer. I actually did his therapeutic uses exemption, so I got the ball rolling with that an we tested him, I'm sure he wouldn't mind me saying this. He was off the charts in the wrong direction. You like both the numbers. I think the scale was too. Fifty two eleven hundred and he was two hundred and eight yeah. Well, that is higher than Alistair is right now and the higher than Victoria's right now, I'm sure Dan also never know Dance Father, Dan's dad had like a five hundred and fifty pound bench press. His his little sister is a sophomore in high school could hit a golf ball. Three hundred yards. Let's see this Christ. They when I used to the soft tissue work I did on Dan and Randy Dan was five times the effort his he is so dense, yeah he's a weird guy. Would you put? Your arm is back you like, like you, take pictures with them. It's like whole, taking a picture with a tree
yeah you're, not you feel a tree you're not like the rest of us for sure. So when I did that I also was so paranoid 'cause. I can't be the guy to fuck up Dan Henderson's career with the failed steroid test right that called the UFC. I called the investor Athletic Commission. I dragged him down there twice a week to get blood test. I didn't want to do it like if my name was on this one now. Is this testing sorry to interrupt you, but this testing we tested two that was his level. Is this in camp or is it out of camp? Is this out of camp? So it's not like hard training where everything gets jacked now. So what made you want to test him? I just said you know you're not like he used to be and that's the way you said like with Dennis being over trained. Well, what did you look for it? I don't know but you're just not quite right and how old is. He Thirty four, maybe was not the slow. Well, that's thirty five and there could be a natural slowing down, but he was very, very low and the one thing he was
very adamant. His dance never done any drugs in his life, he'll drink, some bad light beer, but that's about the extent of my peer yeah, so he never abused anything when he was on. We tell sit him regulus. Why new Jack Little Bit comes up, come back tag and he was never out of a range that was off that scale. So if there, if the skill, if the rangement from two hundred and fifty to one thousand one hundred, he was go to one thousand in a couple days later, it drops down again so he he never abused it in that sense and there's a lot of other guys. So you would speculate, did a very, very opposite thing. They took a whole bunch of stuff Dan took a prescribed medication that
is really needed and never went, but above levels that were not even high levels for normal. Just really, let's just bring up with just a little bits here, so you can recover yeah, and I think that to lump him in with someone who may be throughout their career abuse it much different ways is unfair and it's unfortunate that guys, like Dan, are thrown into that category. But even if you look at Dan's, weight has not changed by more than four pounds is physique. Didn't change your visit in his weight didn't change. He was, I remember when he was twenty. I think the heavy see ever got was two hundred and five and it was like nineteen or twenty working out like crazy and don't think he ever weighed in at two hundred and five pounds on a scale in MMA.
No, he was always like to three two and lower one. Ninety, nine and forty, two, oh five. Yes, a dent in never abused, dented the medications that say Dan did not abuse their rights in any sense. But what is the argument obviously is? Should that medication be allowed, I mean you're, saying a medication, that's necessary, but is that just your body telling you hang it up? Is that your body saying like hey? You know you look if you want to do testosterone for something else for life, but if your body from the abuse of fighting is the you're you're, you essentially a producer is not functioning properly. That could be a big part of what's going on in here yeah, I get the arguments, but you could say the same things. If, if you need surgery in view, let's say you need insulin, develop type me out today right, something like diabetics, refine, mma they'll. Do that as many have have none of one or two, but in general. No, but let's just forget it, we're gonna go down this road right. Okay, should you take this?
What if you need a medication, because you have a harder with me or something right that I'm there's a whole bunch of things that go yet we have medications. For this reason, unfortunately, the line gets blurred so quickly have a guy like Dan, who is honest about it, who went through the channels before we did anything talk to the F C talk to the commission. I had a ball. We wait and hit a binder of every single. I had every single test done that day, so we were very well prepared for that one. So in that sense, so I think that guy should absolutely be able to, and Dan was one first thank them, as was the first or second, their use exemption in Nevada and then came the controversy. Slowly but surely what's up guys abuse guys abuse it slowly, but surely we start saying guys get tested, Nate Marquardt, they pulled them off of the fight where they, in their words, dangerously high, get a dangerously high testosterone count.
I don't know what the number was, but apparently it was significant enough that a doctor advised him to not be able to compete with pre show okay yeah they were, they were. Let number I don't know what that number and what are they worried about I worry about his opponent or him. It's a good question. Is it well first of all, is this ignorance was the guy in Pennsylvania? Was he just ignorant to testosterone? Replacement did not understand that there was no Nate to mark. Do no worry about Marquart's health, war. Was he right? You know, I don't know, I'm not a doctor. Obviously, no, the number was, and but I do know that the guy literally said this is dangerous because of the dangerous lot. Unfortunately, that, since I don't know the fifties or sixties, steroids have been involved with with sports and the higher the level of the more stakes. There are the the more chances you can see. This abuse in a perfect world. No, I think I should be able to take it everyone's going to be honest, you're not gonna, be you know, I can go over all that separate and voice that just doesn't happen now. Do you think the guy should be able to take it? Just because
everybody should be able to recover at a in a sort of like a seemingly healthy normal way, and some people are just they have some sort of a natural impediment and they should be able to overcome that natural impediment with science. That's the argument I I guess so, it doesn't make you better. What makes you better it's hard work, but it allows you to work harder because it allows you to recover better, but in a sense, doesn't near Squeezy. Pants does not allow you to work harder because it allows you recover. Where do you draw the line right and unfortunately it's it's become such a taboo topic right now that the he in reality, drugs are going to be part of every sport from from forty years ago too, it's our grandchildren's credit. As far as we go into the future, it's going to happen right and why do people take vitamin supplements? Why do people take minerals? Why people take glued with glutamine? Why people take
Creatine will take all these legal supplements because they give you a slight edge and all of them together. Synergistically combine that edge and it gives you like a little gap and that little gap we have experienced it? I mean there's stuff that we sell it on it. That's fucking one hundred percent legal, but will give you a boost that quarter Cepz mushroom supplement. If you tried Shroom tech, we ever used that I gotta give you some of the shit. An incredible for oxygen utilization. It gives you like an extra gear. They give you another round, you're given another round, another burst of energy, totally legal and it's nutritional thing. It's it's course of mushrooms in B twelve, and we know that b, twelve gives people a boost of energy. We know the people to do it b, twelve injections before wrestling match and all sorts of competitions for the longest time completely legal. We, but they do because it's effective should that be illegal.
Where do you draw the line? Where do you draw the line? If you can have b12, can you ever be twelve? No! No b12 can I take a multi vitamin yes or what the fuck, when doing here like what. Where is the line, and I think the lines always moving and at one point time they allow the test on Sharon and now after v toward tested at fourteen hundred and seventy five as he does that yeah the with us on it. That's like all: that's, not even a person. You know it's a new thing. I'd like to feel that that,
if you imagine what it's like just raging with that crazy haircut of his at fourteen thousand one hundred and seventy five, I add the bed you just pop out the bed in the morning like in a karate stance. You do some prayers and then you start fucking running hills. I would love that yeah. Maybe I don't know if there is no repercussions for sure I mean I want to feel that there must be repercussion. So right, you can't that's the other thing too. Is I tell guys all the time if you get start messing around with your endocrine system? Go talk to an expert. Don't take the stuff that tony at the gym gave. You got really go, find someone who knows us get blood. Get regular worked, of course, that falls on deaf ears most the time right. Yes, it does fall and there's a reality also that you can only get so big. Naturally, like, when you see guys gained forty pounds in a year, you Eyebrow should go up, look at the size of like a defensive line
an NFL team in nineteen, seventy five and look what they weigh now. What do you think about? Do you think that some and is just genetic engineering. You know like now. I mean in the sense that, like big guys have chosen big women and have fun in May babies that? Well it only happened? People are bigger now than they've ever should shoe sizes are bigger now than they were twenty years ago, home and also hormones and food. They really do that is having an impact that and also the caloric intake as well. So if you're eating tons of calories at a young age, you know your body's going going to puberty quicker and then you just you secrete more growth hormone, you bigger. So that's why the average foot size over the past twenty years is bigger than it was before yeah, so that plays a factor in, but now the NFL's gonna test for growth form that's supposedly they're going to do. I know a guy who supplied a bunch of NFL players with stuff need to just basically said: yeah everybody like you can't do you can't have a three hundred and thirty pound guy running into you and be able to get recovered.
And for next week you just can't do it we, but we want to see that at the Olympics I wanna see Olympic records being shattered. Now you get to a point from watching a hundred meter sprint. You really can't there's a physiological limit that you're going to get to the right that when drugs to help push past set in his fans. We don't like to talk about, but you want to see it. I wanna see home runs if I watch baseball game. Well, I had this ridiculous idea once this is so stupid. This is how I thought I was like: how high can I jump? I can jump like you know this high. Whatever it is, I'm like this would do going to take a pencil and I'm going to jump up as high as I can I'm going to scratch the wall with this pencil scratch a post this pencil, but I'm just going to do it every day. So if I just keep jumping I'll get better and I'll get stronger, if I keep jumping eventually I'll, just jump on the fucking roof like this and uh, it's is not. This is a point of diminishing returns- is a point where you you just you're, not gonna jump any higher. It doesn't matter how much practice doesn't. How much work out there is the
the load limit on your knees and hips and your muscles and your tendons and living thing at old, yeah. Well, yeah, jumping everyday for thirty years, like God now. I can't clear this one mark that I made and it's just now. It doesn't work that way. The bar He has limitations and then there's. I guess the flip side is the format my list of greatest example. You know Roger Bannister. No one can break the format while he does it and then like in the next year, like twelve people do it and the next year after that, like twenty five people, do it now, there's high school kids will run under that yeah. So where did the power of belief? Is that counterbalance to this whole argument? Why do you think the NFL even wants people to be tested for human growth hormone sure they don't who the is pressuring them society. I don't know what they should do. What foot games on Sunday to and click hang up the phone? Well, I mean who says that to say that we're going to test and then actually follow through and tests are two different things. We're gonna test everyone because of I say Joe
on Thursday or income test? Yeah went yeah Thursday, meaning today's Monday, so you has used to do your last shot and midnight on Wednesday night and then you're good to go because really the the? Even if you fail it, I've always says he fell. A drug test in MMA means you're in it. Well, not anymore. Now, they're doing this like really strict protocol. That's like forty thousand dollars a test in there. That's how chill got popped in there testing for epo- and growth hormone, there's always around that stuff. I mean really the case where the good guys to do yeah, of course, have you seen these new test other can spot human growth hormone three weeks out now he has a new test, apparently stepped can it three and a half at what? Whatever the numbers are right? Dear, have a athletes will always find a way to get around things into cheese. It's always gonna. It's always happened in the the who's ever doing. The drugs should ever supplying they're, always one step ahead head of the testers. What, if a guy,
I had to have a camera setup like on a cam and every day. Yes, take us up of a finger prick like you, a home sensor machine and you see people do it. You take a fingerprint. You put it on like this home sensor. Machine sensor recognizes your fingerprint as giving this blood sample analyzes sample without any input whatsoever, and there was also immediately go to a lab, so you have to do it every day if you're competing now that be great, so someone to fake finger. Someone will write, they'll figure out a way to fucking have There's there's later it's out there, that you could put someone else's urine and some of come up with a fake fingerprint didn't Randleman. Do that the news, the fake deck is it him or whether someone did Tom Sizemore got busted using the fake dick who's trying to escape from some sort of a d, a check that in your luggage is. Even in your pants all the time, and you just hope they don't check mean
This is something that's not even a real dick that start yanking on your dick, like hey, it is a real dick TSA, yeah. They do have rubber fake dicks. Who knows yeah I like I like that. I, like the testing. I think that's good, particularly because I have athletes, don't use any drugs, so I prefer to keep noise clean as possible, but did you get bummed out when they pulled the testosterone replacement? Because if you were a guy like say you don't handle down anymore, but if you were handling dance career, an sudden Indiana Guy, who did it ethically and was taking you know exactly what he should be taking, do it all by the rules and then they
they pull it, because one guy or a few guys or whatever was abusing it the challenge for Cher yeah. You have to find a way array of digest: training get to go back and go okay. Now we need to. We have to rethink what we're doing and how we're doing so. We have to pull back on the training. You have to do less, maybe shorter intensity. Maybe we maybe the camp and seven eight weeks is six weeks. He just changed change of strategy, and what about is there any any shortcuts to recovery other than those pants that squeezy things is anything else rest and then the biggest thing is staying in shape. The one thing that Randy did better name when he was always in shape. I'm, so whatever answered never injured in that you know, you know. Peter Graham, is a kick boxer. Here comes another one, he's thirty price! Thirty seven he's been competing at a high level for twenty years. She's never had an injury, that's because I missed training fight. That's incredible! That's when you look at athletes, most people
We go back to is there ever gonna, be enough town? Well, most people, their bodies can't handle the stress of training. I can't my neck when it twenty one or twenty would have been a at a desk and then all of a sudden things are done right. So you have to have a particular joint structure, bone structure, musculature that shoot your body can withstand years of pounding and pounding and pounding. That's one thing: the mentally have to be able to stay in the game. If you get rich and famous, can you handle that? Well that rules that most people there you're going to go off the rails? Anyways many guests surround yourself with the right people. All these certain certain things have to happen for you to achieve this level of success. And that's very difficult- that those come through and within Emma Mae, it's the lowest berry for entry than any professional sport. You could take a guy at the street and said: do you want to be a pro mma fighter? You could go to a local promoter and sale self. Forty tickets and he'll get you a fight that does happen. It happens. All the
especially in those old school, like indian casino fights that they used to have? California, when there was no oh yeah yeah in Cal, I will go on, even though it's a hmm a sanction, they still do these sort of off bro. And promotions where they have these guys that are just and completely an experienced, have no business being there so that the very for entries very low, but really finding quality people quality athletes you can and because you have to invest in people to occur money to do. This is the one thing we didn't talk about. If you're going to have someone go. Ok, Joe all of your all, of your training sessions are going to be private training session. So you get exactly what you need for that day that doesn't come cheap either. So you have to really make investments in people to me. Someone will come along that really wants to start investing in developing athletes, and then brands will start linking up to that because
Now, even with the sponsors said things, no one really knows: don't really want to touch an mma fighter, so much moon. But if you look at that for the money and the values exposure at these guy can get in the in the platform that the sees created, there's a ton of value here that that most brands are not to. An adventure but there's also a shoes like Nike was sponsoring Jones and then Jones had that crazy brawl with core me a and then they pulled the sponsorship yeah, which is a jug cantik loss. On his side I mean I don't know how much they're paying them had to be six figures. I don't know what it was, but that's it it's also. This is a big cachet to be sponsored by Nike. You know one of the you know whatever fortune, five hundred companies that are even considered Gary is Gary a fortune. Five hundred company they might be probably in they were handling the we're promoting George, St Pierre for awhile response from him. So it's like there's a few. A couple of those like
the lead. You think it was just a brawler there, other things as well, because he hasn't done a great job and social media. Now so to me, it's and that's why we have to help someone understand how they fit in how to craft this image. Look at St Pierre, how long she been around for long ever heard one bidder Unsure St Pierre! Well, you know nothing that you can't be debated. You know the did the issues with his former manager. You know those big lawsuit that was going on. We left as far manager, but I had been around its former manager in his former managers husband and there was just a lot of weirdness going on there and it was the guy that used to call the witch doctor. I remember that he's rubbing on people's chests. Aligning their shockers and I like huh what, but for a guy who said a career like he has. You haven't seen any weird media thing,
great guy he's a legitimately great guy yeah yeah John is a wild mother fucker you know and as much as he would like to contain it and have everybody think that he's like super uber professional. One of the reasons why he's so fucking good is because he so wild. That's. Why he's willing to throw spinning elbows in there, do all kinds of wild crazy shit and hit a jumping flying Neon Shogun two seconds into their fight for the title now these are wild dude and that's the kind of guy that becomes a champ, I mean this is the route the way it is like. A fine line there, yeah yeah yeah and sometimes you drive drunk in a Bentley, hold a bunch of strippers in your lap. There's just that. That's those kind of guys it's does Jack Johnson. You know, that's! That's! That's Jack Dempsey! This! This is the wild mother and, while my that's MIKE Tyson is as primes wild mother while mother make great fighters. But you know if you are a big corporation, looking to keep a shiny image of
smiling athletes with beautiful white teeth. You might not might not want to associated with some dude who is going to start brawls at a press conference. You know an that's. That's the reality of corporations looking to align themselves with cage fighters. It's a challenge in the sport and hopefully that as a sport develops in athletes, get better deal with the media and and crafting ways to approach and deal with that, the the more opportunities will come yeah, I hope so too, but you know and is also people are concerned- that MMA might have plateaued as well. They're concerned that, like with the the Fox Sports one deal with the UFC on for box and the UFC. Having so many cards mean there's cards counseling, then there's a fight pass cards and there's international cards, sometimes two different cards going on at the same night, There might be some sort of an oversaturation issue or that it doesn't. It's not special anymore, where it's like boxing they'll have fights every now and
again, but let me down there's a million different promoters, assume Bob Arums promoting you know golden boy is promoting there's a bunch of different promotions that are going on and every x amount of months. There's a big. Fight every x amount of months, Floyd Mayweather, five Miguel Coto, you know Amir Khan, like someone who is a big name and that'll, be like a headliner marquee fight, well that they suffer suffer the same weakness that MMA does and that forever it will be will be.
Talent. Yeah, I mean you could have the grace distribution and all this, but if you don't have a talented, marketable athlete coming up, you don't have anything. So that's why to me talent, development is the area that's most neglected in this sport and it's the foundation of the entire sport. You have to have a guy who's going to get excited. Who is going to be exciting who's going to win fights, exciting ways is going to handle the media well who's going to sell paper views. That's everything sports psychology yeah! You guys work with sports psychology. We do yeah. We were the really good guy out of Cal State Fullerton, who works with a bunch of
olympic Swimmers and he's been fantastic, and do you have everybody work with this guy or is it based on need? Is it? Is it something that you have like? What will you address it as part of this? This is one aspect of who you are as a fighter is your mindset and we should maximize that mindset to me it's an important part of training. I think everyone should work with someone on that side of things like what does a sports psychologist do really helps them kind of frame what's going on there life in a pot, the way I tell them deal with the pressure and stress of competition, but what do they do? I've? Never! You know I don't sit in on those sessions, I'm not a sports psychologist, but don't want to no it's too personal. It's not my son, my place to be there whatever, whatever I can't be there for everything, and I want them to have a pull an outlet that they can go to talk about if their stress of of pressure, they're feeling the
You feel like that. He's an expert in dealing with that I don't have they want to bring the inner or ask me a question that I'm happy to, but no, I don't want to go sit in a session first, satin with a sports psychologist or a psychologist, but I think if it can work with professional athletes, it would probably work with. I thought about doing it for stand up comedy that going with a sports psychologist to work on stand up comedy like I won if there's something to cause it, comics are all like lone wolves, all doing it on their own. No one ever brings in people to help them with anything other than occasionally comics will bring in other comics as writers. But I wonder, like the mindset that you play performance mindset, is very important, whether it's athletics or performing athletics as a father, a husband and whatever yeah for sure, but you haven't done it now now with this,
that's. It he's the action I have talked with them on a couple of occasions about okay during the fight we care some things that that you might wanna stay away from saying more general stuff, like what kind of stuff I want the play. That was it like it's a common thing, go how you doing! I don't today right! Well, don't do that with fire you can occasionally, but there's Scott some built in things here. How I am I do he had hadn't thought of that. Well, my my shoulder kind of hurts. It's like the rest of us and you start focusing off in that direction. That that gauge, I told you about where we have negative. That was all from him. Also have it
that says idea of night I'll text it to you can post if you exit okay, it's super helpful. It's actually, I think it's my as my screensaver, the gauge yeah. It's really helpful. If you look I'll, do it we're done? Okay, yes, anything, and I I found this in chiropractic to I. I learned this. If I go back I walked on to I will I wrestled my senior year in high school separate my ac joints. I wrestled half a year in high school and then walked on to Arizona state with the time two years prior were than national champions. The team they took third, the year before son, his kids were there so we're always. Olympia was as tough as a wrestling room could get, and I had a half a year of high school wrestling and I went in there and got smashed for four months and at the end of four months I could kind of keep up and survive. But my mindset, the whole time wasn't I'm coming here and win. My mindset was, I can hang with these guys an eight months later. I would have a four three match for their returning all american, but I never got a
I for matching beat him right, because the mindset was in that the mindset was. I can hang with these guys. You have to be able to create a minds that we're gonna go in there. I'm gonna dominate this guy in every single way, every second, this fight, and that is a whole different minds. You have to develop fast for to my chiropractic years. I saw this happen all the time. I saw that people who had long standing, Musco skeletal injuries. There was always an emotional component to it. Sometimes it was ninety nine percent. One came to see me and she was on some medication. I'd never heard of a civil. What is this, for? She is what I have I'm athletic have seizures. I Ok will tell me about them, and I don't know why something just didn't feel right about it. So the more she talks more questions. I ask I: when do they happen? She finally tells me well they happen whenever I see a frog. Which, for you and I live in california- is not that big of a deal. But she lived in North Queensland, Australia, she'd, open her door and there be ten green tree frogs right there, so somewhere along the line, her brain. She had a fear of frogs that linked up to this
each muscle or spinal green tree frogs poisonous or something I don't know they were they weren't, just as just a green frog there and her body was going to such a state that she would have a seizure frogs, a frog. She had this frog folk. If it so bad, sounds crazy right. But this was her life If you think about it, so she couldn't go to barbecues, which was that part of the country's population couldn't, outside a whole lot. She lives in the drop I mean it affected her whole life. So, at the time I had started reading when I figured out how much of an emotional components is all these people have seen two hundred people a week and they come with back pain. He had talked to him more and it's like uh there's so much else going on. It's not just your back pains the problem here. It's the way that you're thinking and processing information is kind of the psychology aspect to this. So I
started reading about this guy named Milton Erickson on Milton Erickson was the founder of modern hypnosis, while the most amazing people ever and he would do speeches with three thousand people in hypnotize a whole room, and I was felt this connection with Milton Erickson- have the same birthday that I did. He lived in Providence in Phoenix where I had lived, and so there's these strategy books on on. How Milton Erickson would do this an within this? It kind of led me to doing some reading and with Tony Robbins, who had who had started with a system called Neurolinguistics programming. It was kind of found a lot of the work that Milton Erickson had done within all of this there's a strategy for helping someone break phobias. So here I am twenty six years old, completely intense, and this woman comes to see me for these seizures, this back pain and finds that she has seizures. So I do this process
this with her. It's kind of like this imagination thing and you basically you break this neurological pattern. That happens. I said you're going to go home today and you're going to pick up a frog. What and I get a call an hour later I get car she picks up as if I said hello, Doctor Parsons. Yes, holding a frog know she goes. I can't pick him up so where are you right now, because I'm right in front of him, I said how close just to feet. I said: ok, you'll pick him up tomorrow and I hung up so this is some yagi not well, it's not! Actually, if you, if you learn these patterns of of how to if you learn how to break someone's pattern, you can create a whole different set of behavior right What is this learning of how to break these patterns essentially based on? Is it? What is it based on trial and error? Is it based on hard science not done much well. These are soft sciences right sake, RON he's a soft signed, yeah can't measure it in that sense. Button in this woman's case three
later she was now change. Your whole life she did say should is now creating little little. She put water out for them it change your whole life. You know who her husband want to kill me. Oh my god. His wife was no longer this meek, fearful woman, a more she got her voice back, so the husband was a matter you curve. Husband was furious with me, because his wife was gone, why you use you break this one header one area affected everything else in her life. Her mother in law came to see me and said: don't do that voodoo on me. I lost like five patients in a bunch of money over this because you make a change in someone's life in the sense that it changes the whole direction of other other parts of their lives and all comes from these but type of pattern that were running in our head here. So me I go back to wrestling at my pattern was. I can hang with these guys and I that you work the sports psychology. If you, if you get a mental break out, imagine Anderson will probably talk to someone for
is like like that yeah I believe he is yeah. You have to learn how to process and deal with these things them. For me, it's so important, not just in fighting of fighting sick. This extreme kind of way of thing: yeah, it's something that everyone can benefit from yeah. That's soft sign this thing, though, is real tricky, because a lot of the benefits of something or uh out of the success in doing something like that is based on the confidence that you have in the therapy like. If you believe that you can change you believe it can help you, then it worked. But if you like this shit, ain't gonna work go ahead, try it see, it didn't work. Stuff doesn't work, and you can have that attitude same people could go into the same office and deal with the same counselor and have a similar issue and the depending upon their confidence in that type of therapy, a lot of it is based on the belief in change same thing with coaching right yeah. I could have two athletes. You come back to do the all the same stuff. One will believe it, and this is happening. One doesn't one
succeed the other will have to go somewhere else, but I think you can change this. I went to this. For years he sends his mother is a skydiving instructor and I They desk Meniscus kind of- and I was all made up. Some bullshit excuse good for you about how I didn't want to go skydiving, but in the back of my head it kind of bothered me, so I just skied in fear linked up. So as soon as I kind of learned how to take control and wrecked my own mind, I decided I'm going to go skydiving. This is in Australia and I go down there. I said: ok I want to do. Is a tandem jump he's a test to my back. We go up in there where to watch impact the shoot we go up in the airplane. It's over the Whitsunday Islands, seventy three tropical islands, it's beautiful! I hire a camera man. I don't have an ounce of fear, so ever in my body right at the time that I could have felt better and my job really is just when he taps me. My job is to arch back 'cause. He has the shoot, so he taps me. I arched back. We pulled this shooting at that moment. I knew something was wrong. Oh god, I don't know how I knew something was wrong
and then I'm looking down and he yells in my ear for words I'll, never forget we're having a malfunction in at that point. Everything stopped. And I remember looking down in the first. This is what came to my head. No motion as calm as can be. This is the first time in my life. I've ever been completely committed to something. That's the thought I had why so I look you know, shoot opens up again. We would drop like a sack of potatoes and realize that you know, because the She had folded over on itself, so it slowed us down some, but not nearly enough we're going to die. If we tried to land with that shoot, so he cuts it. You drop really fast again. Then he opens the the reserve chute this doesn't say anything to me and I ask him to go ahead now, he's on my back great right, we're gonna be okay and the guy Yeah, yeah yeah we're we're we're going to be okay. I said man, I need
more certainty in your voice, but he goes we're going to be alright Could you tell me that again because we're gonna be, as God, damn right, we're gonna be alright, tell me one more time and then we land in it which gets on Youtube somewhere. I actually posted it, God, young Ryan, jumping out of it. But if you me nervous just sitting here listening to this, but again, I think when you talk about emotional management. I think that this is a skill that you can learn the you can under very very stressful and high pressure situations. That is a learned skill that you can deal with in being able to to work on that stuff personally, to help other people through it and to have experiences like that. Yet you find yourself, in other circumstances, were all of a sudden you're under stress you can perform and that's what the masters do when, when all the pressures on everything's on the line right now, are you
to step up and perform or not? And I think that to ignore that component for an MMA fighter, who's getting in their underwear and fighting for their lunch money that you absolutely need to spend time and effort developing that side of yourself, and you should have people surrounding you who can help you develop that confidence, because it does not happen in a vacuum yeah and it's different for every person. 'cause every person is going to have different issues different thing, is that they fear different obstacles to overcome for some fighters. It might have been getting subbed for other fighters. It might have been being K. For that fear of committing and getting caught, you have kids you have to how many kids you have three each ones, diff! Yeah very tried out the back, the other right out the box or different. So your challenges that Father's to find out ways that you can get all butt leadership right, yeah and, for me, leadership is a bad influence and it's about service.
So. If you find out what these people really need, and then you can help influence him in that direction, then people going to rise the levels that they never dreamed of, and to me that, if you're in a position of leadership, that has to be your focus, that's where it's really difficult to be a manager. It's going to be difficult to sense, especially because you're Your does your profession. Your profession relies on other people putting all these pieces together. You helping them, but it ultimately once that cage door shut, you can't do a God. Damn thing you have to sit there and watch the work and hope that it all took That's Jeff engenders life right, sort of yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. They they they do something they would. You do a comedy special, not so long ago, yeah, so they have to sit there and go. I hope all this is going to work out
shows on stage I'm confident in him, but that that's the job yeah yeah, it's tricky to tricky gig, I'm too much of a control freak. I don't think I'd be real good at that. Well, the mindset that you have is someone on the town. Side of the equation is totally different: a on the management side. So hopefully you understand where they come from the challenge that that happened in their life. You try to be better at that and they have empathy and understand the the pressure that comes from being talent being the one out there with the spotlight on him and they they just their approach. For that yeah. It's when it all comes together mean it's magical, it's magical, you know, but it's so hard, it's unbelievably hard to find the right manager the right athlete the right training, environment, the right training partners, the
right this scenario in life and then the other stuff. We talked about the right girl, friend, the right wife or a boyfriend, the right whatever the it is that the that support system that you have at home and how many fighters every single off the rails, because the girl from breaks up with them or their girlfriend will and demand attention right before a fight and cause fucking I had a girlfriend of a fighter. I managed to steal his fight shorts, mouthpiece, piecing cup two days before the a fuse to give him back because she wanted attention yeah yeah. But who gets to deal with that? You yeah, so would you do the longer story? Long story would have to check me for a microphone all these crazy things start to happen. Yeah. Of course the pressure pressure shows cracks. You know everything is nice and easy as long as the water pressure is really relaxed and simple and nice to trick a little creek when it's off
walk river that leads up to Niagara falls. Boyd is an exposed. I've seen that I've had people in corners. I've been fortunate to be involved this the stages of athlete development. From the beginning. You just got here to oh you're, a world champion very different. You have to know if you're on the management side of things and training, you have to know how each of those stages are different, as you can spin off the rails at any moment, but I've seen people crack in the corner before it took it, took me five or six years of being in corners before I was really like right now and I sit in the corner, I'm not at all emotional. I see things super clear I, but that took years to develop it would've mention not imagine, be an unbelievably difficult thing to rap your head around. I'm sure it's similar to you calling fights right. The first couple, maybe a first year to you, do it it's
yeah. I was worried about everything that came out of my mouth. I know the fuck. I was saying like that, my talking too much my talking too little and my being an idiot. You know this is a lot, but if you're the guy and then like pudding yourself out, there's going to be a whole bunch of people hate everything that you say and they'll be some that, like it and yeah that's also, but A lot of different things like that, so I'm used to that, like most of my life, involves doing things live, that other people can hear yeah like stand up, podcasting and podcasting, and when UFC Commentary are all live things you're out that other people can hear yes, so you get used do that and see you got be super honest. About yourself you to be super honest about how you would listen to yourself like. I would find me annoying, so some I'm sorry, I have to know when I would find me annoying some people don't want to do that. Like I have friends or comics that won't listen to the recordings are because he listening. I
Listen! I don't like listening to me either. I fucking hate everything I do. Let me tell you this right now everything I fucking do I mean they'll, be like. We sat down with my friend already the other day. Irish fear he does this podcast called skeptic tank and one of the things that he doing lately is going over. Comedy records like that. You did in the past like play for you in like to. But what was this bit based on what we think in here? What do you think when you hear this bit and like we did like one of my favorite, all time, cds with shiny, happy jihad and every you know second or third bit. I really said, like that's a good. I love that bit. That's a great bad, but the other ones like this fucking there a cut that out and shortness and trim added to this. I don't like how I said that or this like that shit tries you fucking crazy, but if it doesn't drive you crazy you're, not paying attention well, that sort of sports psychologist will do to they'll sit down and they will watch you go. What were you thinking here.
What what when Ryan came up to in the cage- and he said this to you, what were you thinking there and they've told me to write we in the cage I saw you do this they'll say those things to me right, but the athletes have to go through what well when you went out there, where is your focus when you're doing would use this by cold air salt bike? That's like a like. A Schwinn aired on bike on steroids of things. Amazing. What's it called it's called an air assault. Biker aerosol bike aerosol by yeah, and I heard of it it's it's the same principle of a Schwinn AIR Dam bike, but it's built like a tank, I mean well, it's a maid and it's it's the worst horror. It's just terrible to be on that thing: assault your bike that's right yeah. So we just looks like a Aerodyne get on that different. It's just it's an Aerodyne bike, but the way it's geared this thing is horrible, and this is what we use for x, print condition. Now, 'cause, there's no stress in your body and Dennis actually has been using that hypoxic he's got a mask on his face, simulating nine thousand feet and he gets on in sprints that thing thirty five minutes
So these are these better than like a listicle. Machines is a whole different animal, really yeah. If I could put you up in twenty seconds, you can be wishing that you're not anywhere else, not me. Let's do it about ten seconds, you're about to get the right. Now, it's amazing yeah! So anyways we put people on this. You know Dan Thailand, as this damned issues that Pat uses the and then it's becomes a mind because you you're doing the work, it doesn't move. You have to move and there's a glass. We we record all your numbers for every sprints. We know at the beginning of a key with his numbers, look like to the end of the camp right. So what do you do when you do this? You do have him do like thirty seconds with intifada style assurance. So what is to do? It did explain the tomato protocol for people, don't know what it is. Twenty seconds of work followed by ten seconds of rest, and we start
they're traditionally were four minutes, and so we start at the beginning of the camp move once a week, one round to four minutes and we up to two runs and we go to five minutes to simulate the rounds in a fight. But we have all the data, and I'm big on, edit numbers. I want to see we do and what's work right right, right, even water, heart rate, pre and post. I there's one thing: we don't do its prey and next thing button right now we don't. We measure the what's on the bike, so I know their output as they're going. So as far as a sports psychology said things that aired on, but if that Erisa Bike is so horrible that you want to quit, I mean it just feels terrible. So it's one other way that we constantly find ways to help help these guys keep focus simple still in there, but it's not hard to do that. That thing is horrible. I'm looking at right now so zero that Satan's tricycle well. This looks like a regular air done by
looks pretty goddam sturdy. First of you can't breath Pat Room PAL Recca Ash winner. Damn bike really they're, not strong. He said big too powerful that right that bike right there you beat the out of it Julia buckle as Rogue fitness has won those the same. Does it sold me that reverse hyper? I might have to pay One of these fuckers up, it's horrible, I'm scared, but I might have to get what about rowing. I like Rowan, I think, the thing with Carty, and I this is something new. I just learned from anti gap and he's a phd he's with the he's. The guy who did the study on the radius rats are- and he came back from a conference of the latest data with cardio stuff and heart health is, if you're doing you know, go for a walk. You do your little easy. Thirty minutes a card if you're not getting a cardiovascular benefit from that. You have to get so you're that your heart rate is getting up so hard and so high that you're better off doing these high intensity, sprint type work outs for overall heart health matter, breathlessness. Now I get I get when start talking crazy cardio struggle,
yeah, look up preparing preparing like that type of stuff. I like pushing myself I'm a big fan in getting to this hiccup on display on it right now, there's one right there, so this dude is doing sprints on it. It that pride doesn't do it justice when not 'cause, he's a pussy say it now. It doesn't. Do us justice that thing that bike is horrible. It breaks everybody you can't, beat it now, it's impossible. So you have this opportunity, and this is the best machine for cardio flow for sure, really for sure, because there's no stress providing you're getting upper body and put about elliptical machines. How are key go to elliptical pretty hard? I bet you if you sprinted, as far as you could an elliptical for thirty seconds or as hard as you could on that for Thursday. It wouldn't even be in the same boat, really yeah. I use elliptical machine the way I would do it for the most part that don't follow Tabata, but I probably should I would just do thirty hard
thirty hard thirty off. We said that we do to bio, sometimes just just to keep it fresh route. Thirty thirties, ten 20s hard as you can go for eight minutes, there's all sorts of ways that you can do. But like I've had friends that, like say like, oh I'm staying in a hotel, they know how many fucking wait to hear. I can to workout in you can't get a workout to come. Do this. This is what I do. I'll. Do it at a hotel room? You know a hotel gym. Let's just have nothing but an elliptical machine I'll, just crank that bitch. What does it go up to seventeen This is what you do you do ten minutes at five. You know you start getting everything end up and then here we go cranked up.
Up to seventeen year, your huff and puff, and the hell yeah yeah. That's it! That's for all the benefits come always comes from, so they could just steady, jog, nothing yeah you're not can get like a now doctor. Gapless tell me that when people now that pro calls for after heart attacks, you get their heart rate up as quick as possible, you get it moving again after a heart attack. Yeah now again that there's just a quick, quick conversation. We had that's not an expertise, mind he pried a better person, ask yeah yeah it it changed. You have got to sprint a lot right now said you start to Beltone problems and hip problems for it jump on that air assault bike, you're gonna get all the cardio that you need well, Pat. Does a lot of mountain biking? Two? Doesn't he he does yeah? He said that that's a fucking, hard, workout, good hills on his favorite part is the climb yeah he's a fucking, psycho yeah. He loves. You should see the numbers he puts it. I sent the numbers to the air assault ago. I hear the numbers. Have these look like. I can't believe anyone
These numbers like this, like what kind of numbers on what it wouldn't mean anything to you, unless you got on, try it, but he'll head over two thousand watts on a sprint. With that thing, an for me to get up to one thousand is hard or one thousand two hundred. So it's a matter of how much effort is putting out it's all effort, because it's air, the air pump, it's. The fan like the fan is pumping air support of the air right. It's basically a fans balance kind of scoops on it. So it's hard as you're going to move that thing. That's the work you're going to get the harder you push it, the more resistance you get, because the more air is pushing yeah. It's terrible. I love it. I'm ordering one right now add to cart click. Do you think that there's other things that could be developed that could maybe be more effective for me,
hey spike, that that Freddie MAC you are confirming that it be. I think I think when you see you see this trend within especially this this. For me, the strength and conditioning guys are the most dangerous people in them and the fighters camp because they can hurt him. They can hurt him. They have these weird ego. No one can do my work and I broke this guy's at everything. The other problem that the fighters run into is they go to gym a for their tie box and they do their mma here they get here for Ju Jitsu. They go here for sinking condition and no one's talking to each other rob right because over trains, a funny thing, you can't really see it, sometimes until it's too late. So I want to know now if, if we had a- hard day Monday and Tuesday and Patton Kailyn are scheduled to go work with MEL on
Wednesday. Why? Let MEL know hey there pretty fresh this week. Push him here. Oak island was dropping her left hand work on this Opatz doing this, so you can push this and they need an easy light day. Mentale there spent right right so MEL knows that, with their strength and conditioning coach, she knows. Ok, I let her know. We need to pull back or listen let's push right now, so the strength and conditioning as are dangerous, and sometimes they set up training scenarios trying to mimic MA in my opinion, is not the right way to go if we're on the strength, room, we're trying to get strong right or if we're doing speed, work we're trying to get fast pride. The best way to do that is to Skwat do some cleans to get overall strength. You don't have to put me in an mma position to try to be strong. Already spent five workouts this week during a match. What you tell me before we start this podcast. You started really incorporating a lot of a limp. Dick Olympic live live like left, and
and it's actually helped your joint pain, Pat Pat now is shut, both of us know shoulder pain, no knee pain, no back pain. We do a lot of clean squatting feels amaze what do you think is why? Why is that limiting pain? I think, because I think, strength in your. It strengthens your overall body in a different way, if you're doing more kind of single plane type exercise in length from doing a a curl or from doing a particular thing is a lot of stress that happens on the joint there. If you do something like a clean, it's an explosive moshing, you're, jumping using your whole body from shoulders, you're pulling the very low. Oddly enough, it's a very low stress, type of movement that the neighbors you get super without taxing your joints and it's a weird movement where everything is just what is super saying explosion, but that's the whole thing if I from there to get stronger more explosive if you're running the through a five twenty five minute circuit, where I'm just gonna as fat kind of cross, but styles Martin fast, I can go we
he did that in the in sparring. We all right right right right and that what we teach again, why are we doing what we're doing well the? Why is we need to develop more explosive, hip strength? Kylin had super strong hips, but didn't have any idea how to activate them and am a situation. I tried all these different things and what help get there will his? tweens what about hard sparring? What do you? What do you? What are your thoughts on there's a lot of fighters that think he used to bang it out to three days a week and other people say once a week is plenty good. Not only that you probably shouldn't spar up until like the last few weeks account, I think less is better. I think he had first half that, like when Pat first came out to train with us, there's a guy at kings. Mma, he said train there, who was three hundred and for two hundred minutes was fried me for two minutes was the toughest guy in the world. He would do flying knees and head key was amazing for two minutes for two more after that is three hundred. So that's a lot of fucking gas. You need to pump to yeah, so I put him in there with Patni lines of three punch combination, and then he
kick him in the head and they all ended up. Staying with Rafael, Cordeiro and pat response. He turns a good rap. Those are right hand on the middle double eggs into the ground, and Rafael turns to me. He goes. I put my stamp on him right because, if you're going to do this, If you say I really want to be a cage fighter, we gotta figure out. What's going to happen, when someone hits you really hard have you hit me really hard, I'm probably gonna go alright. I got somewhere to be, and it's not here right, So you have to figure that once you know that a guy or a girl has those natural fighter tendencies, you don't have to keep finding that out three times a week. If you're going to go fight for fifteen minutes, then we're going to do once a week. Will spar for fifteen minutes three five minute rounds. I got that Shell train with Saint Pierre, not too long ago in Saint Pierre, said the same thing. If I'm fighting for five rounds, all spar for five rounds, white ache,
that guy told you before he would do these ten round battles. He did that for years, right and all of a sudden well fighter a has two hundred rounds and you have two thousand rounds on you. I only have a limited amount that your body is going to withstand before things start going wrong. What about light sparring, technical sparring yeah? I think it's good as long as it's not slow. The problem with technical sparring is they they play in this lows: lazy, slow game, I am having control, is really important. We're switching up we're doing two more states that kind of back to these clubs figuring out. If I'm sparring from fighting in a fight, I have little gloves on. If I do all my sparring, sixteen ounce gloves visually I'm standing behind thirty two ounce of material right. It looks and feels to It's much bigger, much easier to protect yourself, like those k1 style, guys that put they put the ear muffs meaning they put their gloves up next there here and that's the style of defense. They use they go into this shell.
Does not work in man. 'cause punches go around. Those gloves around them, so your defense changes there's more. I can throw a bad punch with a sixteen ounce gloves on that. I can't get away with in a four ounce gloves or bare knuckled or bare knuckled. The whole strategy is different. So if you spend all your time hitting mitts with big gloves on spawn with big gloves on when you get into a cage something's going to going to be off those things, you could hit mitts as hard as you can the hardest pair of mitts with those things you're not going to have any campaign with them. What we're exploring next word in two studies? Next, first, is what part does grip strength, they in punching power and the next one is what's safer. Are these gloves safer than sixteen ounce gloves or a sixteen ounce gloves safer? Because if you look at the amount of padding a six ounce gloves doesn't have any more padding this way right. We also have this bar this phone pad built in there.
So it spreads the area out over a wide area, making it safer the wider, the area that an impact lands is safer. It's going to be forty, so it does that a lot of a sixteen ounce gloves in the thumb, in the back portion of it and the risk it doesn't have any. I want to know when you want, and I was shocked, to see the most sparring pretty hard with little gloves on. I look at how accurate Joe say I'll do is with this punch is to me this will be a game changer and how guys are training preparing for MMA. I think you should be sparring in this. I think she should be hitting mitts in them as much as you can do in a glove this in the symbol at your competition, the better off you're going to be in, and I have a theory that we haven't
yeah- these are actually safer than him. Then boxing gloves disbar. In that sense, we're going to find out because there's less mass coming at you. If you look at the quotes of physics quiz in the force of something equals the mass, how big it is times acceleration or how fast it's moving. This is smaller mass. So if it's moving the same speed as a sixteen ounce gloves, the force will be less 'cause, it's less mass. Coming at you, the two questions arise, one because it's smaller can you punch faster, and the second is pressure, how much of the impact area is landing? This bar spreads the pressure out over a wider area. It's gonna make punching safer, but again we're gonna go test this in a lab. We're gonna find no one's ever done that right, every every who's ever started. Glove company called the same companies in Pakistan or China, they did a glove and they put a fancy logo on it, and they said here we go right. This is the first time in history of combat sports anyone's ever taken an idea went hey. I think this works. Let's go to a real,
sports science lab in a real university, do a real study and get real results and see if we're right and, let's calculate all the different numbers, and she find it larger people, smaller people, women, men, guys Carwin with big giant hands, which is always a big factor like George Foreman's and Oc George Foreman's hands, eagle, cam. Remember equal hymns, hymns same thing: yeah, that's a mass thing right having that. It's, like the difference between having a carpenter's, finish hammer and having a sledgehammer there's some amount of mass like you would look at car wins hands like I shook hands with car, wins it's like shaking hands with a laptop. I mean. Is this big giant thing that grips ahold of your fucking hand and that's why Carwin would hit people like when he hit Gonzaga when he knocked out Gon Zaga, meaning he Gonzaga would like a six inch punch that just shut the lights out and it's because he's just got so much bass, there's so much there, the so. This is just a different sort of weapon
Yeah the person who has smaller hands like a Floyd Mayweather. There is a guy who really could benefit from this technology to because he's always break in his hands Ford's out a bunch, a hand brakes v tore he'll retire as like a size. Nine foot, it is not have big hands or big feet is not like a big boned guy like a car win or like a listener DC is is: does he really yeah because he said and issues about him and try this out to say he broke his hand, yeah a bunch of what yeah. So here's everything we go back to the psychology of trading. If you broke in your hand, seven times and all of a sudden you're back to training again, and then you put the little gloves on an inherently you know, yeah that most most most impressive about Victor is that the guy makes his debut in ninety seven at UFC. Twelve here is you UFC what it is he fighting? Eighty two thousand one hundred and eighty two is going to fight for the title. What the fuck ban you that's insane! Sixteen years he's the only guy, the only guy
add all those years besides Dan, but and he's sort of kind of illuminated Dan from that and running with his last victory over Dan May, Dan did knockout, show gone and his subsequent fight, but you know, show guns not the same anymore: either and Shogun had Dan hurt just dance fucking tough, he's so fucking, tough man ever so far. Damn for years, you never scored a point on him. Give me one take out one time now: yeah. I never got in a good position on him and did he always have that stupid power? Oh yeah people, there's video of Dana, I don't know where it is of in a wrestling match, is probably in the 1990s. He throws a headlock on a guy in a wrestling match and knocks the guy out with a headlock. The guy gets up, takes a minute and he's so dizzy. He
falls back down again to in Headlocked him right in the neck white people knew if you're a power guy people will find out in the first week of training right away. People at team question: oh Dan, oh boy, right away, but he couldn't kick that hard. He's got no flexibility, hipster hamstring. Why did he work on that? You know it's funny his data, so inflexible. You can't really be
this fingers back Dan's body quite camp in his fingers, not really his dad was always like. I can't go, he couldn't come to this. So if you look at Danny that dense musculature there's no way you can get a guy like that flexible hips, here's, the other thing is hips or anatomy too. I go back to gymnastics right. There's the location of the angle of your hip joints will allow you to either be flexible or not same with your shoulders, so in gymnastics they check this very quick, like Orange County, has price of the best gymnastics in the whole country to the last five olympic girls were from Orange County. So there's oh yeah, there's super high quality gems with it and to become an olympic gym that just so many things that has to have, but it's like being
only model. You have to have this certain genetics or no matter what you do you can't make it have your hip joints are naturally like this and they need to be like this. You can you know what you do if your hands are. People are not just the angle. If you look at your hips there's an angle that they come on depending on how you know your genetic anatomy turned out if it one way or the other. My daughter has hips that she can do it. She could do a split on this line and go she's a little girl and she's been practicing since some little girls can ever do it really yeah? If your hip joints are here, the bony anatomy won't, let them come all the way off. Is that scientific cientificas? I've been proven that you tell the people they've taken people that have that look at and they they show their flexibility is absolutely limited for sure, and you see it and shoulders too so they'll say immediately or that girls tight shoulders? Can she get it the gym? This are the ones who figure it out. We also train gymnastics too, so it's uh fascinating sport. In that sense, you train gymnastics people at rain. Now we
to a g r, u train in gymnast yeah I've seen Pat do. That is that, because of your daughter and your connection with that, we met her. She was our Co Archer Mass six coach. I have any sick at a gym called Scats in Huntington Beach. He was my daughter's coach. She left the gym and we just started training with Ivan no, she yeah. So what is the benefit of gymnastics? Training for garlic, Pat, if you ever want to feel weak and uncoordinated come. Do some gymnastics with this? Why no joy George got really into gymnastics first, you get super strong in the most functional way possible. I mean look in Olympic. Gym is, if you want to see someone crazy. The number one gymnast in the world are in a female gymnos. Is a girl named Simone Biles? If you watch Simone Biles, who just won the world championship again, if you watch your florete in your mouth will fall open, she's got. I got King MOE, musculature and she's five foot. Nine is incredible as an athlete can be to make it to that level in gymnastics all these things that have to happen, but the genetics have to be there first, then you have to get super super Balaci to do high level. Gymnastics is
a level of bravery that most people will never really fully flipping through the air and shit and hoping you don't land on your face like its controls, the girl yeah look at her, oh my god, but what she does like watch this. Oh my coaches, even look real! No, she does that's insane. What is your name again, Simone Biles? She does two devil power. Last name think it's biles, oh my god and I think look at this all my God these flips are insane all my god. She is planted holy shit she's incredible. This to me is a good greatest athlete. I've ever seen whoa yeah. If you could that chick some ma you imagine what she would do the checks while she's, I forty nine. So no whatever hun fifteen pounds, that's good, so yeah the gym. Is it raining? What Well, she weighs oh she's, probably ninety pounds, four nine. So we need something below strawweight
for women is probably a good idea. Anyway. There's a lot of women that are hundred pounds, she's, four, nine, and how old is she, seventeen Jesus Christ? Look at these full lips? That's insane the way she sticks. It isn't double yeah, so we start doing gymnastics 'cause. It gives you a body sense. It awareness that you can't get anywhere else and it requires so much strength and how do you say? How do you do it like with the I'm a training and those are the things first thing we had to figure out was what can you do in what can't you do because we first started going there that we did some things and I had a shoulder injury that fit. You know it's like okay, we can't do that. You are not a young girl. How are you your young kid? You have a shoulder. Injury from gymnastics have got so excited. We just had to do some stuff that we didn't know. Was she like what kind of stuff we're doing we tried to vault in the of the act
blocking on the vault, which we initially thought would be good for throwing punches and snapping, and my shoulder we're not having that right. So we do a lot of work in the parallel bars like working there. We do it with you're, not just observing you actually out there doing gymnastics as well. Gotta get my get my work. Can you do a flip, You can do a flip like standing on the ultimate fighter, it's on tape, but did you know how to do that, but restart the engine and I did gymnastics as a kid did. You really first was ski jumping. Second, gymnastics third was refers, port was ski jump. I lived in New Hampshire maniac. I lived in New Hampshire. I saw it on tv. I told my dad. I want to do that. Oh god, he must been so happy. My little boy is going to fly through the air and hopefully not break his neck wow. So now I had done gymnastics. It was always something like that. Be cool to train that again and then through my door, system mix with the opportunity to do it, and- and so you seeing tangible benefits with guys like Pat utilizing gymnastics, training or
seeing that. Are you saying like people, for I guess the whole thing is? Are you feeling good? Are you doing well right right and Tom Watson trains attended gymnastics. Now two dozen kylin comes in trains with us yeah. It's it. You should come down to this. Such a fun. Amazing, you guys in live so far away are not even that far away. It's just la traffic is such a she'll. Do it on a Sunday or something one family time for me most of the time. I'm sorry! I will never do it. We'll never do. But if I don't know if you find a place up here to do a private gym as you get on the parallel bars, you swinging dipped. You gone. That rings a ya you try, you know, must left Gibson handstands and it's amazing orca yeah. It seems like it would be. I mean I'm big on body weight stuff. I do a lot Body weight squads and I do a lot of chin ups and they do a lot of things- is there's no better body weight work at the gym NASA. Now imagine
it comes into play a lot. The number one male Jim this the world is at that Jim, that that was his home gym he's now it like Michigan State or something. So we went and watched him as teammate workout out to see the top US mail did. Gymnastics ran for he was a crazy experience. So I see what I'm doing is a ring or two. If you ever seen a top ring retune right now, he just looks in rain, guys are giant too. They have ridiculous arms, yeah they're all huge right, so he does this ring routine. I let go what happens if you take a month off, because I can't do any of a month off till you're kidding because now so they have to continually. Do it continued yet so we go do gymnastics. Whatever progress, we feel that we're making it would take a week with Miss awake. That's all gone. That's amazing, because it's such an unnatural thing to be swing like a champ on on the rings. It you just have to it's a level of strength and body control that exists and no other sport, and it's all about this perfection in perfect form and perfect movement. Yes,
fun! Now! Do you concerned at all that doing that puts a lot of stress on ligaments and joints and that's why I said we figured out pretty quick what we can be doing. What we can't do in we just run out of time, do just in three fucking hours, long time flew by but fun thanks for having me Brian Parsons, you're, bad mother fucker. So it's good talking to brother. How is your pleasure- and we gotta do this more often. Let's do this and let's, let's keep up with prog and tell me how fighters doing all kinds of ships tomorrow for a comeback and everyone, yeah and and and these gloves, how can people get a hold of them? They also sell yet there if you can get a radius wraps dot com already wraps W r, a p s yeah r, a d I? U S w, I APS were at radius reps on twitter and we're on Facebook find a shoot me, an email. If you have any questions and happy punching yeah happy punching indeed, and your twitter is Ryan radius. Mgmt G,
These Mgmt, thank you. My brother always get oxygen. Okay tonight everybody. Thank you, everybody for tuning into the podcast and thank. Our sponsors thank to video on the culture high go to Vimeo dot com, slash on demand, slash the culture high use. The code word Rogan at checkout and you'll receive ten percent off thanks Paul, go to naturebox dot com, go to naturebox dot com, Slash Rogan, to get a free trial box. Thank to me undies, so to me, undies, dot, com and Ford, Slash rogue me, undies dot com forward, Slash Rogan and get twenty percent off of your first order and free shipping. That's me: undies dot, com forward, slash road and we're also brought to you by draftkings go to draftkings dot com use, the promo promo go to drafting
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Transcript generated on 2019-10-16.