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T a total human optimization site with too many options. Name in this very short commercial. We set strengthen, conditioning equipment, we sell supplements, we sell yummy, foods and snacks that are healthy and guilt. Free police got on a dot com, au And- and I t check out the honor economy for inspiration, videos, diet, tips, tips on the healthy foods. Cool exercises, use the code, word Rogan and you will save ten percent off any and all supplements. My guest today is a gentleman name peer Mcgraw, and he is a professor at the university Colorado and bolder he's a very cool dude, a full time, scholar, part time, adventurer, that's what it says on Twitter page, any wrote a book called the humor code is a fascinating book. Is its analyzing. What comedy is all about like where commie comes from? What what

makes things funny or not funny, and how did cultures react comedy, adds fastening subject and very interesting, intelligent car. So please, without any further ado, welcome Peter Mcgraw pretend Logan experience Jeez was for US music. Playing the backroom people graph, our! U scholar, author, comedy expert, humor code issue out of three two or three hours. Just let you folks out there. Which one or two so you are your book. Humor code is just it's on out analyzing comedy and they are the art of comedy. We're comedy comes from where humor comes from. Yes now so they need.

We're gonna get time or does it get an amateur automobiles available? There is read it another one goddammit there's there's a fuckin there's some sort of a trend out there were these publishers? Won't let authors read their own book. I think the huge disservice to the authors of receiving king. So we so. I call wrote this book in the joke was that we were gonna read every other word. I know her till I get it even right was actually the butcher, the books about what makes things funny and it's it's a global expedition. So I'd teamed up with a writer, Joel Warner and in the books actually told him his voice, so its co written book, but its jaw sort of narrating. What

Is that we're going through like through his eyes right and then it allows him to make fun of me for like doing done things stuff like right, but you do you who married at the book seems Peter break off burned off who is on animal house. Real is a scene with Bill Murray, where he like a cost, one of the caddies and it's like holding a pitchfork up next to his throat knees, telling some story and guys like looking, really scared and awkward bill Murray, now built bill. Murray was in the scene with the guy who never end above I wish bill. Mary was an annual house. What what'd I say, Cardiac right. Kadesh, ok the animal house where the new guy strange that can be used for their own. We sought out no MR cars. We can

study too soon. We definitely than anything you guys, like this fuckin disaster alone, his terrible terrible terrible people from a lot of ways, but the real way to look at it is that. How did this happen? How this guy trick? Everybody You think he was America's wholesome father, all the while he was drugging rapist. It's unbelievable! It's terrifying! It's terrifying that a guy like that can make it to leg. Seventy, whatever the hell he was by doing mean seventy six. Doing it since the sixties, apparently. Well, I don't I have I, get in trouble. Her easel apprehend yourself about lately, I hear is like an ironic. I've got ten years. I can go down some of these past right, but here's the thing that striking to me as like. Why does he need to do something like that? Like the man probably didn't have admirer?

like there's something. Yes, scary varies very Riah, you very right and that's that sort of it's a lot of the arguments that women always want to bring up when they talk Labour rape is not about sex. It's about violence, about control, that's right, and when you have a guy, like this mean what clear while he is so wealthy if he wanted to just order prostitutes and have them wait in the hall like by the hundreds, he could do that mean he doesn't have to drug people like and I'm sure a lot of people would enjoy having sex with bill caused me. This oh boy, got aspects of your husband, maybe assisted. He has such disdain for people that he just doesn't doesn't mind. Treating them like objects will fuck knows where to speculate was awful. I think what it does, though it highlights amazed that it's a terrible, terrible thing, but what it highlights I mean the person on stage and the person in the green room can often be different people.

And sometimes and resign stage is a lot nicer and friendlier ran warmer and sometimes a person. The green room is alot, alot, nicer warmer, you don't like it like. So the idea essentially, is that that When you see someone you see their public persona and up comedian, an actor and so one that's that's a character who may or may not big sort of closely related to them and who they are like silently Gallagher, is not at the local neighbourhood Block Party, smashing war melons and running around you know these really nutty conservative views heard? Him talk amounts. Member he's gonna radio shows, like is very like fiscally concern It is an angry and in a hot, fair value, There you go right, and so you see you see this happen peoples or to talk about comedians a dark side, and some of it is that the active being a funny person? You have to go down dark, dark places,

and talk about things that are wrong in the world. It is hard to know how dark that person is in the same way the, but it seems like Cosby flipped it right. He seem like the nice guy. He would chastised Chris Rock and richer prior for using curse words And yet you know does so family that any Murphy bit is when the graves of all top people laugh. Did you get paid Tell Bill have a communist mouth shut, the fuck up I get is imagine that conversation taken place, Itching, Eddie, Murphy and Richard prior over bill cause that exist whenever Greg fly on the wall? You hanging out amazing, I open or not open, actually get to go on after richer prior for the last shows of his life really yeah. I mean might have done a couple more after that that I didn't know about. But as far as I know, I work with them. The last shows of his life at three at the comedy storm yeah. Well I, and how is it that you had to go after him because

the colony store is run by MRS Shore emits shore had a really do or die for loss We should like a gladiator philosophy went came the comedy she would take comics She thought TAT any potential whatsoever. She would shoved them against the most d. Meaning odds like ice D gone after Martin Lawrence. When Mart Lawrence was on Martin. He would do it. Forty five minutes in the main room and destroy people have likes. Left on modern Lawrence and how it happened, but Mart Lawrence for blow at once one time he had some issues. Gotta, look great in my room where a rubber suit and he got pull over the cops and gone or somethin member

now with Charlie, you guys are often not stored, gimme the real as I stand up comedy, but yet he had a he added as some sort of a breakdown, but before that I'm having a lot of that is probably stress, related just from being such a fuckin mega star, but before that he would come to the comic store in full. Gender straw in ice d, gone after just a giant. Shit I you'd bomb every time gone after dice Clay, I'd gone after anybody who is like if there is a big name, Mitya, shoved neon writer- and let me see likes. You mean she believes in you, yeah like sink or swim batch does it. You know you can get those eight o clock cushy spots after Argus Hamel Seminaries, nice warmed up and friendly and no one's drunk. Yet now now you're gonna go on it. Ten four five after a guy like Damon wanes, does forty five minutes and destroys anyway

is that why sort of way training you? I got scared off the audience. I saw you would go on after prior and they would bring prior to the stage and it would take live in like I'm, not exaggerating at least four or five minutes to get him to the stage k, because the oars all room: the original room. You have to start in the back and two guys wrapped carry him, so they have to walk with them. Nato, we are of the path and make the path towards a stage larger slant get him through, and then they would slowly walk him down the aisle. Did really like picking a mob stepping picking a mob stepping in his body was just gone. He was severely deteriorated, then they would put him chair and he would drink and he's on medication, new still drink, and I would call the micro like public as key, couldn't talk, so you have to make it really loud, so you get off and in then you know people get really bomb now and then I have to go

after whom it depends on how much time you do. Sometimes you do like half an hour. Sometimes you don't do it twenty minutes, but you know you watching. Arguably, the most influential greatest stand of comedian of all time, and this is the last days those just was hard? I went back and watch some of his stuff. It's a really interesting, go back and watch classic. Yes, they end up in the thing about Richard stuff is as opposed Eddie, Murphy stuff. It holds up yeah really strongly yeah in a way that a topical, even if it would, he wondered like what would happen with a guy like that today, in the machinery where would he have gone in terms of television film? That's a good question one, because he's just so any so funny any so like a bull in ways that you know he was the best

Kennison was probably the best for like a year but overall prize the best guess I think Lenny Bruce is the most important their ability to do just took himself out of consideration. Who did yeah he's Val felt funny, just not even like a few months ago Bill Baron, I were planning on taking a trip to Vegas just to see Bill Causeway, we plot in and out and were likely to take a weekend offers. Everybody was raves about how good he is. I have heard a bunch of comics, like Chris Rock was Raven about Chris Rock, with and then he followed an amateur after he saw how will cause we watched his special animals like now seems like fuckin, like some really like conversational middle, the road stuff, not by any means save it wasn't that good to me- and I know he was brilliant back in the day

I could go, listen to like that Noah's Ark Bit and all that stuff from like way back when, but the stuff of those watch, then it was doing recently was like our aid. We should just go just because a historical thing and then all this shit comes animal things, All that has been sitting annoying little each these problems before getting high. God forgive my killed. You think about alone. How much money is because we have and how much time does he have left on this planet and he's got a connect. The fact that this war, like really respected, stand a comic stirred com. Racist acts or a rapist rather nice. It raises a rapist onstage and then it hit Africa where Demi make the next day it showed up online. He added and but it's taken a little louder pick up. We'll have already knew about it before then says what it's really weird, it's like almost like a volcano. They gave you a bunch of warning eruptions and then spewed because There is stories from way back in like the early two thousands of lino improprieties s work.

With mildly in the news when Hannibal start talking about it. That's how we start talking about in his act here for a few weeks couple times here and thereby huh yeah. He just said like go google it it's all over the news, just no one's paying attention until this happens. So maybe you could explain this to me as someone who visit Ella some sort of pay attention a little bits. What's going on here, obviously gotten connected the comedy seen. How is it that there are these. What is it big, dark stories that everybody sort of nose and in Hollywood, but no one ever talks about outside that I don't think there's any anymore. You know, I think things like this. This is his dark it gets deserves. This was an evil crime of the epic proportions mean one that there's gonna be no justice. Right the thing that makes a very. How can I mean if you put him in jail he's much time? Does he have left in his life and he lived this like fantastic distance for seventy plus years, I'm sure right now

none of that matters to him sheriff now he is in Hell. That's one, a weird things about the concept of karma. You know a gun, you, you do do evil shit. Bull, and even if you got away with it for a long time, it's probably still creep in a way it is inside to constantly and then, when it fine we dug overtake him like right now and he just swarmed by allegations. It must feel like our most. It's gonna feel like hell speaking of hell. If someone told me when we set this up, that we were going to be spend the first This part CAS talking without girl, Crosbie ended, evaluations I never would have believed I never would have believed that either I've ever one of these on Twitter wrote that, like for the first time in forty years, Charles Manson is as having a better. We got married Yeats, it's fucked man of the dark side thing I wouldn't I wanna hear what use my night take on a lot.

Of comedy comes from people being scared or bullied or making light of situations, and that's where they sorted develop. Their sense of humour, including mine mine, was sort of a dead guy came about through a different angle, but is all sort of the same thing and I think a lot of comic were ignored and were not loved and they developed this exorbitant need for attention so powerful. It makes them want to stand on a stage I d trying to get it all back. I would like to turn to seek balance from what they didn't get in their childhood. Almost everyone. I know ok! So I guess I buy that, like that makes a lot of intuitive sense. The challenge with that is it that's the same story that people put forth for other artists for musicians and fur yeah, no painters and like that they that that their art arose from this dark sort of place and its away to kind of trying to fix things. Try to Koper in o tend to be developed

positive again and then the other thing is: oh there's lots of people been bullied and scared and had terrible childhoods who don't become funny right. So so I mean, I think, there is something to this notion, but I wonder how how specific it is the comedy and what is it a differentiate? Someone like you versus someone who never became funny like you know, so so what where's that mechanism could not that I don't have a good answer. Do I have an answer to why people seem messed up? Who who do comedy, because most people don't get on stage, write and tell the world about their problems, but plenty of people, an audience who were abused as Catalan or alcoholics divorced and all these things so it so it's it's really interesting puzzle. And it certainly one that that there's a lot of evidence for because

he really notice when seemingly happy comic commit suicide by Robin Williams or near someone, o DS, etc, and so so what is it though? They did. You can point to. That that made you go down the path of comedy verses. Some other path likened I can come on this in a unique way, because there is a lot of other points of focus that are used to try to distract myself from from my unhappy child that weren't funny in all. Ok, I was artist. Really heavily indebted drawing comic books, and then it became a marsh artist, going to start fighting from timeless fifteen towards or twenty one, that's. That was my entire focus, my life so during time. I wasn't funny at all in the only people that I would make laugh was like guys in the locker room and the UK, out of a fear like we would spar and sparring scary cause. You know you practicing fighting and allow times you like.

The way to get good as you gotta hit each other really hard. You gotta, do it like it's real light. You can't pull back a little bit but it's too scared to shit and I've done despondency beetle, no, and that turns into an actual fight. So, every sparring session we would do specialist Saturday's where this big thing called teen training that we do on Saturday morning and I would make your way laugh. I would be the guy who would be like crack and jobs you do and impressions of people, but I was only doing it cuz. I was scared and I was doing it for them cuz. I wanted them to pay attention to me. I think that all the The energy that put forth into art in into into worm martial arts was just trying to calm down whatever fuckin ridiculous Storm was inside my head. Because I didn't get enough attention or my life was fucked up. Are you fill in the blank for whatever it is sure? And I think the path of comedy is just a unique path in

itself, because there's so much criticism and analysis and self analysis and judgment by the audience, and then this pressure to produce comedy there's some. Going on on top of the initial motivation that got you knew it, but I think that path can go to Tar playing that pass can go to its is trying to find something that makes you feel special and if you mean there's a bunch of people that have that issue in their head and they never figured it out and they ve bounced around a normal jobs and never can keep it together. Become drug addicts are alcoholics or in a filling the blank, but I think it all comes from a very similar place and its really weird our society that that human things rather like that. But if you don't get enough attention at certain ports near developmental process, he developed disagree, Jordan and need for an unbalanced need for attention

and you need to learn how to deal with that and learn how to channel it or you don't, but if you do and how to channel it, it's a massive advantage. So being the attention or you can type a handle on its like what an look, I'm engine for motivation, yeah away. I think it's always une. You really need that to to make it in this business. It's such a stain of comedy side. I gave it a shot. I actually that's what started the humor could project. Was this journalist said to me- and I want you to come to this- but my night and can critique the comedians. Tell me whether funny or not using your theory, In a moment of hubris. I said I wanna get on stage and tellson jokes and, as you can imagine how that went, It did not go well. How long did you prepare this is embarrassing to say now cause I know about the business I prepared like twenty four hours. That's

Not at all I mean I earnestly, I get it now what you know when you're, when you're outside the business, you don't really understand what goes well into it and then, at the end of the book, at the end of our travels, I got on stage again this time at just relax Some real comedy club in Montreal in Montreal, Canada Comedy Nest, in disorder prove right, but I've learned something along the way get laughs. I did all that's us idea like everyone else one, but But where was going all the ideas that fit to want the attention to want to succeed so badly it necessary that sufficient, but is necessary because you face challenges. Faced failure the risk of failure, all the time failure regularly, and then you just have to do it constantly yeah to be able to get those sort of shining moments that I think help

tell you even further along well, it's also in order to get good. You have to accept that failure and you have to absorb the pain, is very weird thing, but I've I find that the more satisfied I am with what I do the shit here. My product is and the more disgusted by everything I do. The better everything is this. I like I couldn't have a murderous, sat or am killing for an hour and I'll fuck. One set up of one that's all I think about for like days like there's like this intense never satisfied started the narrative that keeps went on when I'm really working on something in a really get into it and never satisfied with theirs so there's a. If I be a professor for a moment others. What can we call the negativity, bias or negativity dominance and its essential idea that that the negative things in the world hold much more sway. Over

decisions. Are emotions are reasoning, their positive things and it's, it's part of the reason that one little element can out shine way and it fifty nine minutes of other good other right and dumb. I mean that makes the makes sense from sort of an evolutionary standpoint, but then, when you think about the stakes associated with wanting to become a stand up comic it, it actually becomes really rational to pay attend. To the two those failure, because you have to eliminate them or fix them. If you want to get that our special, the judge, shines year. You also you don't do yourself good by being happy with your work, hits fucked up, but it's true, so you I mean I'm happy with the results like I know like objectively. That was really good, but actually there could. I could go look at my last speech, which I think would the ones coming out. It's gonna tonight I'm coming central midnight transverse night, but things

ass one, but I always think that, but this one, Really deerlike objectively think it's my best one. I put my way more work anew and then my last one, but I could go back and watch a bit like five times and crazy in Rwanda but I do like that, for I can I just did this or you can't. You can never find like a peaceful moment and it's because the stakes are so high. First of all and the impact of it like when it's when you get it good. When you really get it and nail it and in the audiences die and laughing, and then people go that's my time. Favorite bed like that. That is self it like. That is such an important thing to be able to accomplish its. So in there's only one way to do it. You got a fucking crawl through glass. If you dont crawl to glow If you don't really look at it for what it is, it'll never get to that point and the only way to look at it like that is going to be like super hypercritical, and if your hypercritical you're gonna

How can I hate everything everything example, you know. I am, I was writing my post stock within economy, and so we won the Nobel Prize in Economics for psychological insights into decision making, and I worked with him before I did the post. Likewise, a graduate student he's in his late sixties. At the time I was in my late twenties, am I helped and edit a couple chapters and that guy what you just described is him he he would write a paragraph and I work out a great many of them and then he would rewrite it in front of me and were taken my forty five minutes and I make oh yeah, that's better and then he would just write it over again, and we would so we work on a paragraph like three hours that I already thought was good right and at the end of it it was great and then we just move onto them

paragraph, and it is just like. I think that that that idea being so obsessed obsessed with getting it perfect is, you need to get something near perfect. Yes, the only way you really achieve what one called greatness Ernest Hemingway has this great quota. My friend irish fear has taped on the front of his laptop poker. First draft on everything is shit shooting first round it is a tragedy that is their right laptop like right, where the other thing above the keyboard. So he looks at that. Every time you rights and its system that we get it do you gotta run you, gonna write any gotta analyze and you gotta listen my brain and I were actually to talk about this last night. It's fuckin hard. Listen yourself! He's like a my voice. I forget what I sound like figured it out. If you put it double speed, it sounds a little different

that is how I see China have had to listen as long yes, Adequate Astor, and you know what you're talking about already. So, if you listen, doublespeak is the way to go because that's the problem, I have my voices, silk rose, Now you should listen to your voice and fix that shit. That's supposed to do you want to do something that doesn't see gross to you, but you reality changing your voices message. Now you decide you don't ever change your voice. You just to calm down, calm down, you silly goose! So what's you're, special rocky Mountain, high, the Denver song. John Denver had to is it plus? I did it in Denver, right after the calmly works in Denver. I greet item yet the best I decided

did a comic lab first of all, because I wanted to, I think that I've been doing and in these theatres side allow a lot of decision making after my last special the live, the Tabernacle one idea was not happy with it. I was happy with some it's? What other animals, like man, fired like more time to work on that I can it? May that whole think better than I thought about it. What do you know? The whole thing is I dont think that that's the writing environs. For doing a special like on a giant stage like when you watch someone in a comedy club in your in your living room like you're right there now, like you, feel I go behind a wide shine. So exactly so, I don't want any that very little shots audience is wanted, just focus on a thing like year. Someone in the audience is watching in the audience and dumb Denver is just you know right now, just changing so radically because the marijuana being legal, it's bizarre that culture is expand. This really strange way that everybody.

Idealized like this would be the ideal scenario, the yet a hundred million dollars a year in taxes in other violent crew I'm drops drunk driving, drops murder drops, but that's actually what's happening You know through tonnes a young people moving there. The Tec scene is booming, yeah yeah, it's the city's doing very well blowing up and it's going to continue its an amazing amazing place car out of my favorites, but I'm stuck here, fellow but a fucking back there, those mountains each can't beat our view? That view is insane. That's a nice place to live goddamn bring everybody moving your neighborhood! Well, I own. So that's ok, I'll help. You know it is so if you think that I'd like about Colorado is the thing that I also don't like about Colorado is that the silent and boulders helium thirty miles north of of Denver is- is just such an easy place to live like I just

things function very easily and everybody's very nice and their fed- and you know things run well and so on. So you could be productive, you can be creative, there can get stuff done, you'd be healthy. Doing it, but I like coming to allay who else is a lot harder as you as you know, but it's also there's like this is also a hub in ways that a place like folder or Denver can't be right. You now, there's just is just so the scale of so much bigger and the people. The meter just doing big things like Ah, yes, the crazy place you're not supposed to have this many people. You know what I went to recently, where it really cemented it. I went to Mexico City, I was in Mexico City for the sea. First of all its like a real but farting in your face twenty four hours a day. That's what Mexico City smells like it is so polluted. I am, I put a photo Irma Instagram people like holy shit. I going you're flying in them

go city like wow, that's dark and its perpetual gridlock so you know sometimes in no, you get to a green light, assholes they drove in the intersection, the light changes in their stuck there and that are buddy hogs and you know it but try to be more courteous Nego around the guy in us, then you behind them. She make sure you don't do that. You give yourself a little gap. Room. You know like this about age. Let me hover back years. I don't fuck and bought a demonstration earthen exactly they don't ever do then, let's go that she doesn't happen. So when you driving at five o clock, there's just jammed up, this way in jammed up that way. This red, green, it doesn't matter, delight, turns green. You move forward little by turns read where they go on fucking there right there on your part, nominally intersection its perpetual gridlock with a nice people does the thing those strange hawking is our hunting and little vows rights very

friendly. Very nice people like there is way more people than the runaway, but everybody's really chill like their super friendly mexican people in Mexico City of some of the nicest people I've ever met in any, foreign city like when I first went to its like, consists lead nice ass, great yeah, you know, and they don't know me there's just there were just normal nice folks, but that that monster of traffic and gridlock in people is what we can expect an ally. It's gonna happen. If it, if it doesn't happen in twenty it'll happen, fifty or a hundred years whenever it is like that's inevitable and that's fucking chaos, the legal chaos there's too many people. I read this thing. L a county has more people than all like, I think thirteenth, as if it was a state and we like the thirteenth largest state or something like that. Just L, a county est, L a county, Yount Lemon, something like that

this, that's really obscene its enormous is an enormous enormous about people and its very strange psych. He got a wonder like what is everybody here for a comedy? How many of these people are here because of show business like what is the actual number, because there's a lot of people to go well, you know me, give shot glass of wine and they have a sort of this like very non committed idea of trying to make it an showbiz. Hoping that makes an connections in London where they quit a lot of people. I that right there's a lot of people that you mean yeah. I think a lot of marine in in show business, but there are so many different kinds having porn. I seminars so many just

people are very important, for an extra does is the worst example ever extras. Hey we're looking for Porn Extra Yoshi keeps on contacted me to be a lot more, usually bro. You she's fucking crazy, why you pretend, like YO, she's normalized, all its normal? He Ivan example, for you he's like a isn't anything save when it do you think it's a hundred dollars you get to watch porn doesn't stand in the background, whether I am glad I really listen to this. The doublespeak too fast, for there is just one example so that there is a bit in their the right, probably porn. Extra bit polyvinyl now make my friend was apparent. Extra years be had to be behind a blow job seen were Spiderman was hanging upside down. She was giving him a blow job upside down. He just like inches away having dinner

sitting on whom he was later man against the wall, webbed against war yeah further. Doesn't that doesn't get the central casting? Doesn't people out for that now they probably of Zaire Craigslist things probably on Non Union in other hold the package, but back to Innovations and Stanhope Comedy in this now did you you like to come to conclusions. Ord extract data when it comes to like this However, I have a lab at the Colorado called the humor research lab, actual lab and we're coats, we don't need people always want, to show you, the media is where it gently lab cosine, rubber chickens glamour, wrappers refer. Two like there were where they right as the lab, like kid Cutty I'm too, where Aleppo during the lab fuckin take this shit's next, let me

I thought about it for labour we bring in I'm participants for subjects. We thought about wearing lab coats just to make it like em for that for the subjects to take him seriously careering wildcard, say science. We should get some beakers sooner things like that, but now we don't do any less Mukamba, but so that by the wave of the acronym is hurl. So we we refer to the humor research lab. Is hurl, ok

And all with laughter, yes and we so so weak, so what we did was sometimes we run experiments out in the fields such as we run experiments back in the laboratory, so we'd have an idea, we'd go out investigated and then oftentimes supplement that that work in the laboratory or elsewhere. So so you you mentioned commie works is being such a great room. Are one of the things that we do we do in the humor code is investigate what makes a great comedy room and we actually tried to construct day a comedy club at this art museum that was doing a special event, so we showed comedy clips and eat. We change aspects of the of the room to see if it would actually have an effective

way that you would expect, based on your experience as a comedian and sometimes the other, the studies work. Sometimes they don't work but has served as a nice seen by which to talk about like we know. Why is it that comedians are especially funny in a comedy club? Why? What helps make a joke land it? What what did you come inclusion, so so one of the things that people always talk about, it's like having a low ceiling, how beneficial a low ceiling is, and so I go cable, eyes at the case. You know, so that would say is that the laughter, a kind of bounce back down onto the audience and and if you think about it, what what after really is. Is a communication tool, writes a primitive communication tool so bad? these are only language to laugh. Rabies laugh, monkeys. Chimps, but I was really even evidence that rats engage in something akin to laughter and

and what it does is it it communicates at this situation. This is getting to the theory that we test. Situation, that seems wrong is actually ok. River we say is it says this is a benign violation and when other people are laughing at something that you just said, that might be a little bit off color what their essentially saying is of. This is ok to me. This is positive to me when you get these contagious effects. Rights like when some people will laugh after statement. That's not funny. I guess I left the keys and armed yes, they're trying to let you know, I call now yeah sorry in everyone's, like it's. Ok, it's ok, doing so. There's some Ella well what's interesting about about laughter. Is that it doesn't necessarily communicate that that something's funny that it's been co opted by language in a way that, like someone, people punctuate a sentence with laughter it something they often don't even know they're doing, and it's just a

a kind of smooth the interaction year versus the kind of wood? So that's: what's cod non dishing laughter, non duty to shame Jane you worried to you in any new car with another time. Besides wordy shining is that I was pronounced. He has no idea like hastily right. I do not answer came questions. Trust me, keep it our guy so sort of them. I did didn't. I mean I've said that word like a hundred and fifty times ahead, I had advanced. So the idea is that you have friends in smiles. A smile can be an indication of positive emotion or it could be like a sorority girls. Girls smile, that's like a faint smile. The same can happen with laughter right, so I could politely laugh at a joke that you have

You said just because I'm exact astronomy, nice so that doesn't indicate amusement right, but when it does like you know so so we can obviously like most of the laughter that we have is that we actually enjoying something about a moment in time and but when other people are laughing, it has a contagious effect. So if you think about about laughter is a signalling to its useful, if you want, if you want to spread that signal out and so low ceiling. Helps. It helps get someone laughing who might not necessarily be live because they're just surrounded him after rather make sense I'm. So one of things is having a dark room is really important. Why the comedy store. I think people really like are in such a dark Rio. It disan habits the audience. So when you're in darkness you feel anonymous and and again, if, because I believe it comedy plays on on violate

I'm talking about things that are wrong that are threatening that are amiss in some way. What most of the time those things aren't funny they make us laugh they make us, As you know, they make us cry, they anger us. They they confuse us, they discussed us and and re embarrass us and so when you're in, but when you're in darkness, you can let loose, you won't hold back. Alas, my laughter because your like, oh I can't I don't want to be the person who laughs at that kind of a joke or has the Disan hidden In fact, some of the other things like the chairs having a chair, that's that's kind of uncomfortable. You know that in your cramming, people in it helps increase arousal so because comedy plays on arousal, taking things that are kind negatively, arousing and making them positive, and the more

housing. The situation is the bigger the emotional accept your interesting, so jamming people up together make some slightly uncomfortable because inventing into the space what is you're just like more awake and more or like and then another jamming all these people together. Is you almost create this bonding among them yeah, so I've had I've had comics talk about this idea of comedy as a conspiracy. It's like it's like us, verses them like everybody in the room. Here we all get it. And those fools out there. They don't get it and when your jammed in there with all these people, you feel connected to them in a way that then, I think often helps when you think, You know what a lot of comics, or do you just pointing out what's wrong with the world an answer. Now we have this bond. We feel we were highly arousing

falling asleep during a comedy radio. You ve got the laughter bouncing back down on people. You ve got the darkness and the last thing is you: ve got the red brick wall behind the car. And this I'm not sure how much have in effect this has, but certain colors have that kind of more arousing like a red brick as it like the behind. Dead. That's a good arousal! So that red is a more arousing color than allowing new food labelling flat red that is why the brick? Now, let's make it like home, means out the ideas I don't know. I think it's just there's just now is that brick per se- I don't authors about the British, so many chemicals every improv has bricks. They'll have bricks, even if they don't have they bring bricks and I think it's the red more than the brick. Although that's an interesting, I could run that study yeah, that's I'm thinking about it actually paid to have these bricks put in these undesirable

It's all right because, like that of the near this, why are they put down the than they do it? But it makes me feel better You're doing this girl bricks. But it's not our reconstruction like it's, not gonna, stop the hope for run through the wall and the wife of the whole isn't real. I pointed out that real broke, stop behold now my point being I was wondering why I think everything you said makes a lot of sense, and one thing that I didn't even consider is the uncomfortable factor, because there's a place called the hawk half their loves north, I would great spot, but they have couches and brought people just like lounge. They should get rid of the council now about it. I need them to listen. There's part gas link. Does the couches Kim's some shitty fuckin folding chair slide him in air, so the other one is that end this I haven't done the real John it, but I believe it is the case I am. It doesn't have to combine clubs, I much, but it happens our late night television

you get those like freezing cold rooms? He like Letterman is name is for like a fifty four degrees room ranting like that and what you hear is people sail, was causing the lights in the people down there and these suits and they wanted to keep a call, but I think is also again: it keeps the audience awakens eunuch enough. You're, not gonna nap round is like fifty four degrees you're, you know, you're uncomfortable you're you're awake using he's dead right about that totally makes sense as well. I think another thing to take any consideration of you did is that part of com the part of what's going on. Is it's like some sort of a mass hypnosis sort of a thing when it guys on stay and you really in the zone monkey just got U material like laid out and adjust you just riding this fuckin thing, and the crowd is roaring and laughing along with you, there's they're, letting you think for them. Almost like allowing you to have access to the wheel of their mind. You take them on this,

crazy, comedic journey, and in that hence a car like mass hypnosis in a way must end the smaller the area that you're doing this, the more comfortable people going to feel allowing themselves to be taken away like this like when you have low seal, The parameters are like very clearly defined. Like there's. A ceiling has the floor. Here's the waters, more place, but when you get a big place like when you doing like Madison Square Garden or an arena some parts of the giant ceiling people say, whereas on a good place, we're comedy will lapse Why does a little bit of that? But Also, like you know, there's lot above us lot. That's a lot of space here, less comforting, it's like it's less contained then might say a place like the heat, The aim in Philadelphia, joy ideas is as we can.

Helium is one great comic options. Countries are really low ceiling tight. It's in you now this great neighbourhood and adjust perfect, like you, couldn't get any better. It's like you're right on top of those people everything's the entire dimension, the dimensions the room are clearly defined here. I think I've ice called Madison Square, garden to have them. Let me run a study there and Ivan her back from them. Yet so, I say to beg my back on a shudder than up as one free night. This fall back but not very reticent. Comedian perform their though I think it's these are used, is doing their Aziz has a gig there and I thank the Maxie muttered. Had it Danes done it dice is done it others only by health, mall handful. It helps to have a lot of fans right. I think those arena kinds of things. These are people who already love that comedian and they're going to see it

a man who is also an event, ago, if I give Kevin Heart shown up somewhere, he's hot right now, that's an event. We're gonna go see Kevin Heart people at work. Even if they're not fancy you guys get tickets were Kevin hard hers, lairs Army is such a big name, their becomes an event. That's interesting. I think also that take away of all this is, I figure it a great choice for it for Rocky Mountain High Odin, Commodore yeah, it's I mean every comedian, I speak to talks about how that's in the top five yeah well Wendy, who the woman who owns and runs. It is like one of my favorite people ever and he's responsible, essentially for the entire comedy seen in Denver, she's she's. She fosters it. She developed this open, might programme jellies people into into the club gives them time than makes him like their middles, and then they eventually she like develops local headliners is one of the few places left that has local headliners and I see, I know that you know the graphics guys there they are like a three men through they do

they do their own shell, but they always are showing up a comedy. Now I don't know them, then Roy Adam came Howland Andrew orbit all No, no, my like that. Those or people in others are voters our sort of yeah. Now there you know they're on the coast is a real seen there in Denver as well. If you place, it is a real seen, that's where it takes it takes like a club. We ve often talked about Houston because Houston where Billhook started or SAM Kennison started using Houston in an eight. The early eighties was a motherfucker and lose a hotbed of talent, but as because of one club to the last stop laptop and river oaks. And when that there, where I recorded my first ever CD and ninety nine aims, first place I ever like did well on the run. Not did well, it got laughs but like a sell out, every show her and it was because they were like looking for that kind comedy like they had had. Enow Kennison started there and alone. LE bow the Outlaws a comedy. All those guys came out Houston, but when that I went away. The scene went away. I know you, you need you to do those things a week for the humor

we, we came to allay to look at stand up in improv and we she went to the we went to New York and looked at the new Yorker cartoons, so we end with them and also like humour in Madison Avenue and all that kind of stuff, and then we were actually went to Antonia we went to Japan we went to the West Bank, went to Palestine, Scandinavia the Amazon and with Trusting is, and always has been. Now is uniquely american could again Japan. They have like a vibrant comedy scene, but it's it's different, I so in Japan, for instance, they have the two men comedies caught mind's eye and it's like Dean, Martin style, stuff like an avenue, Castelo kind of thing, and they don't really have the comedy club like the independent com eclipsing. It's all corporate in Japan, for instance

and you know I can in a lotta plate like obvious in the Amazon comedy clubs. You know it's like such an interesting unease. Is it really does have have has had its start? in the United States in a Wendy. Had this great conversation with a large chain that was trying to set up and in Denver and day they wanted to talk to her about getting involved, and she said, what what's your strategy as far as open my curtains when open mic night she's we're not gonna, have up Might nights she's? Ok, get this straight. You want to sell widgets, but you don't, make your own widgets, but you sellen, widgets, really don't develop widgets at all. You know me any resource in developing which see other people to bringing the widgets. Now, I go in that its least though it places like the IMF. I do allow the improper didn't do open my knights and I think that's a huge disservice to the art form into them. It's they. Don't they see it short sidedly. They see that as being

a detriment to their business, because they're gonna have to pay the way. Staff and they might even lose money on that night? But I think that's how you develop talent and if you don't do that, you don't develop talent in a scene and you get more people and- than the idea stand calmly, especially if you have a good local, headliner guy. It's really good people like really get in, Valverde? Like someone who's, I got local person who's, a really good who they think has likes potential to you know to break free break it when we're home again break out. So you know I I I say how Greece. Every city has a rap star right, so should you go off to allay or New York and try to create you're, fame and Fourchan Org. You become the best person in that city and soon- and I think I like I think, of wrap in that- way like you know. So, if you think about every major city, not every, but a lot of major cities you can identify. Who is

best, and then they use that city as leaping off point for a more national seen in international scene and so on. Rob is very different in Germany, the motor no, but it's, but just as an analogy right, India that you, where is it that you should develop your craft when? Is it you're ready to go to to one of the coasts? Like sounds to me that if you have a good club of reasonable goal would be to become the headliner that low local headliner, add that club and then try to break into the business. More broadly, like you know what I'd be television or filmer or go out on the road yeah. Now you disappear, you seem you need to be around other complex, a kick ass, its super important, or every step of the way, to be around them hanging out in Ebay around them going on stage we feed off each other. We feed off each other the way that unloading wrappers mean I might be but I think they have to as much because they can cottage

themselves, on the long history of rap nationwide. All of these places why I'm, I'm I'm sure the development of the craft, but the idea- I guess questions. This is if you were a good comic and you wanted to get great- and you are going to prescribe a route for, for one would, you say, looks you know, staying Denver and and be the best the Denver offer and then do it or when you think, you're ready head off to New York, this is my advice and is very general varied depending upon circumstances, but I think you should get a general proficiency in a place. We can get some states time like a Denver or Portland or a place? It's a smaller place yet get a general. Proficiency. Were you a real Europe of a general, your essentially a professional, you could do half an hour character and get the fuck out I got I gotta go to allay or New York, because to be around beasts. You gotta be at Sea bill bird drop.

To the comic storing Tuesday nineteen fifteen minutes you gotta see Joe ideas go up in the original roam at eleven o clock and murder the place you gotta see. Guys. You gotta around them. You gotta, you gotta is this a certain inspirational heat that you get from being around a crew of comedians. It takes your act to the next level, hooker almost universally, so I can I can see that it's hard to argue against that, but if you're, but you need to get the state time right so its balance and if you're in Austin Report Lindore Denver, you do have great comics coming here all the time, so you can get that sort of unique watched him too weak and sets the definitely made you drop me ass. They once more kilometre, though scene, I'm working on material and when you know something's, absolutely new, there's like the spark of excitement that everybody has in the room, I save an event, go like something happens in the news and then in some, unlike Chris Rock, which show up and start talking about. That event is like a certain crackle too that meets that the only

it is necessary for success as a comedian, make it absolutely be a guy who lives in boys, the Ngos on the road and does great but there's something being around a lot of really funny. Comedians then, has this undeniably inspirational effect. I understand I mean I'm I'm interest we were sort of We're talking a little bit about this idea like achievement and rights of what is it that predicts success in this very difficult yeah, I'm certainly not. I dont there's no hard fast answer. There's no blacker, I know I'm just saying from my point of view what I would advise and it's maybe more style strategies, incorrect for some people were media, it would depend about, have to really know the person, but some guys are fine like living in Austin, they develop a good little following and now because the internet. You can get a following just from a Youtube video and then start touring nationally. I think that's a step essentials. Well,

pouring is another essential development developmental tool for comic, because I think one of things about being comic as you want to get the most varied input possible if you're doing the same club all the time, the same kind audience preaching to the choir- and you know the people that and a lot in Boston in Boston, a lot of the local guys. They became really proficient really good body. Boston people laugh the yes, yes, yes, it is a huge task. And then they would go to other places and it would be like they were hamstrung like somebody just like him in the kneecaps, the baseball bat like they could run anymore. I was crazy to watch. I see and that's exactly what it is. It's not doing, the road enough. You have to develop an act that that is yours, uniquely your you know your take on things but it also how your take on things is like

conglomeration, while the experiences that you ve had your life and the more experiences that you have, especially as a comic onstage and different places, the more flavors your performance- and I do it here- I think that's emails. People talk about this for a ten year rule. You know that you takes ten years to get your voice and em they're, in obviously there's exceptions, but you know I think some of it is just like you need the practice, but some of that ten years is you just come to better understand the world right, and so so, when you're twenty two years old you, you can be a funny person, but it's but you haven't, you know human learn, other mechanics and all that kind of stuff. You don't have enough material, but some you just don't really understand the world in the way that you do in your thirty to forty two and an eye you're suggesting that was the more experience you have out on the road understanding. What people in Oklahoma find funny what people in Minnesota fine funny what their lives or liken India

This and Alabama Album and Lana ends up being very useful. Because of you know I mean I've been. Clubs in New York and allay with the kind of like hipster, you know, audiences, the, Crowds yeah and you know, vetoes fun comedy, but it's not going to go very far if you're interested in going far while its it's a very specialised form of common like, but here the cool guy in the room, and the cool guy in the back of the room, recognises threaten guy in the room and you know you're pushing a lot a progressive issues that are very debate debatable in other parts of the country. But you you just getting like raucous round of applause and creation of what saying and then you feed off and then you become like Super captain, left the gun on stage of the fedora re talking about being a feminist, and you know it's a lot

what they're doing is just you know, that's their spot. They do in Boston, comedy they just doing it in Brooklyn and some hipster spot. You know I mean like by Saint Boston colleague, may mean that doing like us civic style of comedy that maybe they like or maybe we're, well in their area and then there's nothing wrong with you. Want me you to do that. There could be a thing you could do ever fuck you want, but I think that one of the great things about being a comic is going to all these weird places and doing stand up in Alaska, do and stand up in Florida doing stand up all over the place and experiencing all these weird things and weird crowds and weird situations, if you just did but he only in Brooklyn. I thank you and you get a very limited perspective. You gonna get a very you're you're arts knocking to reach its full potential. That makes any sense here I pretentious in our eyes. No, no! I well. I think I think it can be our yeah. You know I mean far jokes aren't artistic though they might get lass,

right, you can make laughs and changed the way people see the world or if the FARC jokes is. So fucking good that it literally transcends the far joke genre and it becomes, are that's possible here we re now. Will you I'm not gonna, send me an email when that happens like per se, but I'll start paying attention, but so you actually, but for the humor code. That's exactly the perspective that we talk, so one of the things that we did was saying. There's no offense to you. We said well humorous, not just stand up, stand, isn't this a bizarre art form? You know that that it seems like the quintessential thing that you should look at but most of our laughs dont come from a guy honesty. With my camera. Dora it's from our our own interactions with friends in our family and strangers and watching television watching film in

seeing seeing the world a more broadly and and then also it's such a complex topic we made were like or we can just look at it in the United States. We carry so so focused on the: U S and that's what what pushed us to go out and look at this like so we we went to the West Bank and hung out with comedy satire troop. Well, who has a television, show that it's it's once a week, but when Ramadan it's every single night for thirty knights and so well, and so we hung out with these folks like so these are people who are there. In the West Bank and their credit. Sizing everyone so their criticising the Palestinians, Israel, the Israelis there, the Americans for Iraq,

Oh oh, oh saw my aunt Obama in the same Gatorade like that. You know these guys are doing really cutting edge stuff in this place that their there aren't comedy clubs like you're the way that you get profession, Comedy. There's like two shows on net palestinian national Television or you need to find it broadcast from Egypt or from Jordan. Unless for Jordan has evidently the Georgians aren't terribly funny today. Needs are verified, but Egyptians are like rural areas. Jordanians are fine right now, listings fuckin pissed. There is no. We talk to these guys in their like, oh yeah, there's a there's like a hierarchy of harmony in the Middle EAST and according to them the power the means are about the middle. The edge since our hilarious real ended. Ordains evidently are like the most serious theatre

options or whoever was very funny. Yes, Lydia tribute that too, I can remember. I was Joe was here. He remembers everything here because he writes it all down But others like a long history of of egyptian comedy ha very funny people. What about the Israelis the factor in their? Yes? Oh, so what was really fast? mating was that so we have. You know you have kind of the stereotype of the of the funny jewish person. Rarely self deprecating, but you don't find Matt style of comedy in Israel as much this really comedies a lot more aggressive like it's, the it's, the comedy of the victor, not of the of the victim How strange so we found this weird reversal, where the Palestinians were much more, a sort of self deprecating and their comedy was my

more jewish in in the Eric Incense, then you would have necessarily expected to others, It was really really fascinating. That's strange that it. It is weird when you think about I've met a bunch of Israelis, there very different from a lot of the American Jews, and I think that that's big generalization American Jews, sorry folks, but the the idea being that there were all the time within their costly, surrounded by people hate them. They all have mandatory military service. How did you study how like the American Jus came to be like the separate sub species of the Jew, like sort of like the Sitka blackmail. Dear the smaller deal lives in Alaska. One did that we looked at was how overrepresented jewish merit Things are in comedy until by back in the day it was like. Seventy percent like it was, who is an incredible number, Netanyahu's less so now, but,

Folks have been replaced by by other minorities, so ask Americans even the rise of the muslim american comedian posts eleven using this and what it what I think it is that to be a minority is advantageous when it comes to creating jokes, because You know what you're doing as I like to trying to create. Benign violations are trying to make things that are wrong: okay, being. A minority helps identify what's wrong in the world because we have one foot in the majority culture one foot outside of it. You can see the things that seem off range like it's more like by Chris Rock. I think one of the brilliant things about Chris Rock is crossover appeal and in some of those he went to a white high school, so he was sort of two black for a white high school, but then back in his

neighbourhood? He was sort of too much of a nerd ragged keeps he never got it in either of those places, and so he could see what was wrong at home and he could see what was wrong with white culture in a way that, when just by in totally you don't see it things that are wrong and is the things that are wrong is what's a ripe source of common rights and suit? So if you think about jewish Americans, while they fit that model very nicely in a number of different dimensions. Right so like culturally, religiously and you know, and so on, ethically and so on. And so and then, and now you also have mentors right. So so, if you If you're, like looking for someone to look up to you, can find someone who's like you right, you got male brooks making You know: right, making his way and in comedy in a way that

Inspiration, oh and you see it as like. Oh I can do this cause smells done it or right, rail and so on. So, but we haven't gone, that's about as deep as we went with it, but it's a really fascinating ideas. This notion of Debbie beat the Walcott Tunis right, so you have the kind of two identities. That's So useful thing is why, like is you're totally agree: autonomy, Mexico City in Mexico City? That's the way the traffic is remember you come, there is an outsider and adjust seem so bizarre in Mexico when it comes to allay and they make they make jokes about allay traffic about how well behaved. People seem to be at least relative to home. Here you can see how that stuff You talk to my friends from Mexico and she was laughing and she was like they. We say if you could drive Mexico City JIVE anywhere you now she's like I was saying. I can't believe it.

Traffic is laid down that just like I know I came to America could drive easy problem. You should go so we went to Denmark and it's the easiest driving in the world like we rented, a car drove all over the place in Denmark is so polite. It's a polite. You'll abiding everything and also there's like nobody. There, like you, know we're in Copenhagen and where is everybody, both in that's how bolder is boulders very polite like the driving. There is very calm, and I know- and I want to start honking take don't do people peep, theirs, our moves, as people are too polite at times and as a result, people misbehave because they're vague laid off. They feel like their operating in with anonymity because they ve come for probably a place where people, why girl and were more aggressive, and so I'm like I need

using the I've from New Jersey, original outdo dumping journey to tell it God, damn you, Goddamn you be democratic, What you say about the outsider makes Etana sense, especially being outside on both sides and be an outsider inside the black community and, of course, being black being outside or in the white men for Chris Rock. Yet it totally makes its being in an outsider, having some that having a lack of comfort There are now means almost like bore we're talking about about being switched in together being cold and like there's something about a lack of comfort that can create comedy. The Jew thing is fast now to me, because you

Apparently still say like complimentary: shoes are so intelligent, like they have a completely disproportionate number of Nobel Prize winners that are European Jews, they their responsible for a great deal of like inventions and an innovation in its Annabelle like just as far as I can european Jews. You look at the the intellect we'll talent, poor. It's come out of Europe, a jewish folks from Europe to make and a lot of those who emigrated to America became fantastic, stand up comedians and were known like pretty much across the board: as being really intelligent, like you think about like you mean Woody Allen before all of his troubles was known as a very intelligent guy, very ancient?

an active and fascinating guy right, Jerry sign fellows, of course, knows being very intelligent, MRS slew of them, you can just start there and Larry David and go on to the end of time. So so the best predictor of a good sense of humor is intelligence, and so So some again the professional rank sad that clearly makes sense, because you have to be writing. You know any like. So you see you have to come to be good at at writing in putting these things together, but even outside of the professional ranks just to be quick witted, it helps to be smart, because really, what you're doing is creating a situation where you take this thing. That seems wrong and find a way to make it. Ok, right and, and smart people tend to be more creative in smart people tend to be better at that kind of thing. I think it's really is the best,

you don't have to be cuts in aid can still make far jokes and so on. But yet a problem in fact far chose acidity caught in a trap and then get caught in a trap. Here's that trap the trap. Is you eliminate a subject matter because you believe it's lowbrow? Ok, but the reality. Is there, Sir times. That is the correct thing to discuss sure and irish fear has his joke about having diarrhea and he had to go across the bridge in us, We run already really I'm already laughing and an industry story and his manager actually told him. Look out. It's a shit. It's a fucking he'll Larry S bit his marriage, like. Let me go drop that it's a shit up so dropped his manager, sick, fuck, off dummy, like you know it and about their certain times were? That is the right thing to talk about. I agree I mean you know if you give a comic a choice between so something smart and sing, something that gets laughs. They go with love that

and they ought to that the currency they tradin but now see that discuss this on yesterday. Another comics have podcast if they have like something that a real or discuss it's not funny at all, they can do it on a pod katzen, but there is like a real tramp some comics would get into like when I started getting a little bit irrelevance, especially where they would start preaching onstage. And its gross. I do it's safe on stays, aren't funny at all to get applause breaks, to get people to agree with dug a TED talk. Almost like you know, you essentially preaching to the choir me, that's what you're doing neared you doing it on purpose to like to set yourself up on a moral high ground or to establish a premise and now and then you gonna expand from there, but this the preaching thing gets really fuckin gross when you're an audience member, especially if it's like. Really obvious stuff. You know someone's doing just to get like. Of course, we all think that women should be slaves. You know I mean what mission slaves, United, starts clapping, and what are you doing if you don't

Punchline, don't say that, of course, women should be slaves. Nobody should be fuckin slave, you know like that kind of thing is avoided by podcast because in part, Yes, you can explore and idea and not have to worry about, like the very rigid parameters of like getting a joke or getting a laugh. Every x amount of seconds I see, and then you can have people like me on Yet we have people that are way less funding have actually got laughs. At a comedy club in I've had likes theoretical physicists on. We have to ask them to repeat themselves, because you know what the fuck they just said, or you know really. Intellectual people wouldn't very varied interests. That's why it's not funny at all, and you don't have to be. The Scots there's other you're providing other it's even the dividing is a conversation. Solid is like it when you have a conversation, if you're the type, a guy that is trying to get laughs,

all the time and every conversation you gonna fuckin, really boring conversations gives you gonna limit your interaction to only like that, little this narrow gap of humor. I say you can't go deep, announced of regular ankle deep answer for you. You can meat. Look even when you go deep. Does anything? Sometimes you going deeper, there's still so ridiculously funny. Shit in the deepness, oh and Nick did League were human were pliable. We can go back and forth between all of them, the idea that can only be one or the other is like a marketing issue or something else. It aren't embrace the fortune. Teller, Didn't you right, though, for the most part most time and some until the far joke there only telling afar joke, because they there just scared and then try. You laugh and almost insulting as an audience member to cheap, laugh. Although it still a laugh ratings, will you have the choice between no laugh and a cheap laugh? You started why such ideas, far into MIKE, for once the calm stores, where the funny things out some, because he was whose totally non related he's

I'm sorry, I got a fart nip aegis farther right, farted, the microphone, the live to see his face during a Tiffany had a Tiffany. You know It was a girl. Is we always do this year that it deserves this girl, who does stand up in one of her big ideas she makes air come out of our vat cavity hand makes noises with it, puts the microphone up to a cross, unique skill, so funny of its unique, ok but its unique? she's. Why do on stage with the microphone in its great because it is at the end, ever set so she's sweaty and save more of a wet one says: oh, my goodness is forty from them.

Yeah it's what's with all her on Twitter fridays are on the road reference I have the following. Is the microphone ran after and veto joke about that? Now? The idea of eight- that's, that's you open it still smiles one quickie, that's not funny should come up with a better job. Yeah thousand right so stopper here. That's him! The three does. Sometimes it's not good like right there. But the point being is like funniest funding and something Someone will say something that you would say all you shouldn't. Do jokes on that. Like armies, joke about shit, he's pants wars going over there oh yeah, sure minutes it was. There was a clever bits of funny honest bit. It is what it is, and I think that there is lot of like bad comedy on almost every subject. You know, there's been a lot add comedy on fart, jokes or a lot of bad comedy on the film. The blank yes like airplane Joe

like if you have an airplane gioia, that's right, your comics talk about that like enough with the travel, jokes yeah, you know cause it's just every comic has a travel. Why? If someone comes along with the travel joke, they just knocked your socks off. That is what it is. I say it somewhere can have a point or Point of view or take on some aspects that we hit? You haven't considered some unique aspect. Yes, you know yes, but I mean so it's like its yes, but isn't it? I mean it's really is the thing where you you are trying to be unique, bright right, the ideal situation, as you say, stuff but no one saying that there are not thinking about the way you're thinking about it, that you're giving people perspective that doesn't Quaid familiar right rats, that's the holy GRAIL. I think especially in a world where it so hard to stay.

Thou constantly have people say. Oh do you know this particular comic, and only now I don't remember, is very good is just there so many of them, and so how is it that you can get people's attention and care? And and I mean a hideous marketing term by like cut through the clutter prisoner, The sort of the case with any art form like with music, mean they're, so many small ban. I now bans that are trying to make it and Here I mean any of the entertainment in a world of entertainment. I think that's that's probably the case, but don't I think that today at least it's the best time to be one of those people to be illegal. Finally, like bands began, you two could now now you don't have to rely on the machinery. I mean. That's the thing that I think is really exciting about comedy, I'm specifically men, entertainment in general, is that now

have the long tail re like because it's a big world or three hundred million people in the United States and now there's like kid in Kansas City who never would have found you're found you you know, and then he stumbled upon you and he hears about it in and then you can actually following through technology Could you just cutting out the middlemen you dont? Need you know you you just don't you don't need the the channel walls, and you don't need the clubs. You don't eat all these things as much, because you can reach people erectly, and so then you can be you can you? Can be re, really narrow, because there's enough people out there who might be able to support that yeah sure that's really exciting, Yad mothers.

Especially like when you talk about specific, John or, like all comedy s. This ought comedy scenes over the country. Now, where you could you know you could fit in these areas too? There's a lot of people like like a different style of comedy. Just like a lot of you will like a different style of music. That's the weird thing: a comedy is that the genre itself is not really defining of what it is like you don't go to. Sea live music, you'll, see I've rock and roll. Yes, he live blues live country. Even if you don't know the artists essentially go to, lab where you know what they're, what their silently ass, good point, but comedy man you can get guns and roses? Are you get very mantle and back to back me up that, while the comedy store you'll deal with like ten comics in a night and they're, all two totally different mean there's all sorts of different takes you know. I'm really impressed by. Is these sort of blue collar comedy guys, because what they ve done is found space, that

there's a huge demand for and there's not enough people filling. It rang. You know, so, if you think about it, like you, ve got all these are common. And they're all they all looked like they came from Mumford zones like they're, all the sort of the same do dear and yours and another exert just competing so much and then think these blue collar guys just must be killing it because there's a whole world out there. That's producing enough comic right for the demand live friend whose really country music- and I was over his house. There was the country music, Channel, fuckin, ridiculous. Its Zeus, country, music, videos, and it's like it was so with some. The work music, you'll ever union life, but it's like this culture that during grained in and there's not comedians that connect that culture? No, but it's like ever seen the compilation bright politics compilation why

when she music, sucked in two thousand thirteen, it's fucking hilarious cause. It's it's it's about! What we're talking about, you about like hack, premises and obvious scenarios and theirs formula to success. That's insulting to people that, like, if you enjoy like moral haggard, enjoy like some really good cartoons, Ike, William Yank Williams, you now Wayland Jennings. You know that the real shit man and Johnny ass new, listen to some of this, like really Aviles, obvious, formulaic, sort of created shit and it's it's annoying large, crazy, so that somebody concocted this. Video of all of the premises in country music and how much their repeated and how often they repeated did you find it? Yeah thanks are due to Youtube video. You think it's gonna get us both

yeah played on that thing, and then just what will watch it? You can do that. What's the worry, we pulled from Youtube all the time. You tube someone who make a claim against you say like if we, if we just do the show, what kind of show we show a video and the videos like, like snaky nutcracker ouch. Unlike that somebody something that video poles from Youtube videos, if you get it a certain amount of strikes. Have you get pulled for copyright violation, a certain amount of time surveillance, take down the video and edit it out and put it back allies that happens a certain time he can get in trouble Why country music was awful in two thousand and thirteen, and this is predict Billy Possum, for maybe for this. If any cliches is as close as politicize glorious glorious series of cliches, but it just shows you how how hard people are not trying,

Who are they trying to do this or you don't have to try his heart, like that's a bow and are being an open question? No! Ok! Here's! How country music work! Two thousand thirteen a bunch of dude sang about trucks, Comedy injection they drove down old dirt, roads is quote

and they beg girls, get in trouble the only want a girls wearing tight genes, those genes,

that's so crazy and they drove the girls to the nearest riverbank river, the sunset moonlight made it all so romantic and there was always alcohol, a good start to look

some things up his code, yeah good stuff is moonshine. Boards are mainly gold, but if every Bro tactic failed, they would just call their girl. Girl operating of transit system is pretty much wide listening to music,

it would not that's not the whole genre its most of their right. There's an appetite not well. It's like just like saying. Music is like. That means a lot. A goddamn pop music is most music pop music, honey honeys, obviously not pop music. Does a lot of music does not pop music? It's just disease does joke about ass about these sort of color, like these were club songs about partying, entailing here he is a man about this, but is there any he's doing it now with like I'm using yeah now is that fewer? So, how is it by ideas that your finding these things right resonate people like it, so people keep doing it. Yes, versions at all, but there's a market in especially talking about going out till I clubs and drinking like drinking clubs and playing

while people dream like shot, cha Cha cha people of that cast off, they loved to be included, but this is just like you could clear that often Caroline go back to my screen. It's all a hack premises. Enounce, like that's, that's one! A things like you know: You start trying to make your ideas funny like make points. Some people I ever get there. That is ended some the best ones don't ever get like Mitch. Hedberg my perfect sample for guys like when we all time favorite comedians, but he never had like. There's no, things the beginning is just becoming at recently profession and though I would describe it that there's like three steps the first and sometimes even though, not all necessary. The second steps, fine, but the first step. Is you just figure out what works? It's like give a tool? looks like you to hammer nails and saw a word years trying to figure out what works. So your oaks you might not even think their funding at all, but they get a laugh say, stick with them and then once you get good enough, you start doing stuff that you actually think it's funny and then the third,

step. Is you start trying to make your ideas funny like make points? Some people I ever get there is ended. From the best ones, don't ever get like Mitch, Hedberg my perfect sample for guys like when we all time favorite comedians, but he never had, there is no philosophy behind his Kommeni. It was just who just really hilarious. One liners non related one liners too, and hours of them He was a really unique in unusual comic in that sense, and did he did he recreate himself at one point in his career, like the Mitch regret. Everybody knows about is not even start doing. That style like even like the kind of cadence in the way he eyed his voice am, I know, they're not here and I pray me always adopted. I've known, I knew for long. Miss Miss, read something about one thing the did happen is he got development deals and they start

Unlike the whole sitcom shuffle thing with em know, try to develop a sitcom form and then one day stop developing the sick com. Then he like it didn't work out. The acting thing didn't work out and he really started just touring more and getting more into a stand. A stand up, she's, keep getting stronger and stronger and stronger, and it led to. The Mitch Hedberg. Nobody knows now: ok, I see, but is also substance, abuse involved. Now, like a lot of it, this there's some of his style that you could probably a tribute to drugs. No because he had this inherent issue now and he had this sort of almost. It lay pack heroin style at Pisa every gum, our I was still worried. It never kicked in. You know had this weird likes slick buzz? our style of comedy that Emily huge loss, yeah, you wonder like? Where would he where could he have gone?

using I'm thing. You have been doing the same thing in a big just here, no, like dull spot like if you go look at is this body of work is no bad stuff. Figures like it started off great state, greater the aid to the very end. It would create new, great stuff and in my opinion, the hardest way to do it like the one liners like unrelated one liners over and over again, it's especially bizarre absurdest sort of one liners, but you know people would have known about for. Surely he died. I think it's two thousand and say three. Somewhere? I am for the army, his stuff. This is perfect. You two material. Yes, it's so Cheryl yeah. You know, I mean I get it and you can use it because one liners you can break it down and have like fifteen seconds or fifteen minutes. Yeah people build up he's an interesting guy too, because a lot of stories, him in the early days where club owners didn't quite get it like when you go on

road a lot of times. The club owner just cares about Putting an you know and act on stage is gonna get laughs and sometimes the act that they'll book for the headliners not compatible like he worked with some guy, and the guy was like singing and doing impressions of musicians, don't fuckin, flips and cartwheels and shared this crazy, big closer that he would do. Thank you can either, but who go crazy, then Mitch Edward, withdraw statesmen, sunglasses on and people get angry. It did has happened and why club it happened in a bunch, clubs and obviously you talking about the guy, who, I think, is one of the best ever, but he would each shit because you had gone after these guys and no new. We was so they didn't know they didn't notice. They can expect the Mitch Hedberg style, so saw this guy go on after this guy who was flippin around and sweat and input. Not all this effort, and just never could use mailing it in May.

They just couldn't switch gears. You know this is this a really interesting idea. So this is the kind of stuff that I I test for a living right. So so what we ve been sort of talking about is like weathers ones funny or not, or how they develop a sense of humor ability to produce laughs and others, but from the comedy club conversation we had earlier and then this conversation you realise that there is a lot of moving parts, yet writers, livings that are outside of your control. As someone trying to be funny, and so the idea that you could have some one who was very, I mean

Will you do have someone who is funny before you because it forms a crowd up in their already in a good mood in there just more likely to laugh now than they were before, because it their mood state has changed its nose positive zone. But the fact is that the vat can have such a profound. A fact shows that there is a lot of like contextual factors that are at play, that you can't necessarily control right. You know, and so that's I've, never yes what I try to put my finger on what would be the contrast there like. Why is it that the odd hence would sort of rebelled against him. Given how good I mean you know, he's good. So let us not a guy algae, the music. I mean if, if matter, Kaliko went on stage and did you know a concert in front of a bunch of metal fans and when fuck Crazy, did understand man and then brought up

Tina glare, how well do you think they'll go mad worth is a badge do not obey eyes, be her. You know, if you would, if you go to any Sort of music show its very rare that you have like a completely contrasting styles like that, same stage. The difference, though, is that this presumably like just a regular audience like it. That is, I was an audience. The came, therefore, this jumping around guy Brian, I write knows to Carmody Club that around that's the thing and that's the difficult part of developing as it can Vienna. Think from outer comics is like you have to find your audience and if you compromise yourself, you don't ever find your audience. You become this sort of middle of the road guy. The blazer on my first tried to go and stage the first thing I did. Try dress like me Hence I wore a blazer and rolled my sleeves up and I warlike like a wacky t, shirt,

Like a pin, my jacket like I was trying to like fit in The mould have what I thought of a comedian, and I think that if your comic it's very hard to become a Mitch Hedberg, because of that its very high, I too, like do something that no once they haven't seen wise, you weren't sunglasses. Likewise you he would turn his back to the crowd. Do like his is act to the wall, sometimes with high behind curtain, to reduce whole act behind the curtain. I'm gonna hate I hear a little bit and it will do this accident. I got creates around that's right. That makes this answer. It's unusual destination. We look at it too. You truly arouse your creating arousal radio, and the key is just to make sure that the the arrow is pointed to the positive side like us. That makes it it would make it even more like if he was. Coming here that would make it even worse, because now it's these creating negative arouse exactly exam yeah I mean he was doing well and doing that. But, like I've told a story forwards appears reading Hicks I saw Hicks in bed,

Austin Diana some bomb and he went on after guy was like a really happy. I think I was doing my car in character smoke, and we like doing impressions of like things that we all knew you know just standard. Really. Like down the Middle happy shit and he did well Hicks when from no one knew who fanatics wasn't. Hickses h, shit furred like forty five minutes, except for like fifty people around so is like a three hundred zero tuner? Fifty people leave the feet. Fifty people remit your howling laughing. It's like the comics in the back of the room and like a few people in the audience, but Hicks never like left that stuff the key to- and he knew this wasn't crowd. He just plowed through it anyway and found his crowd in the people that stayed because he never stopped like delivering.

The material do what he wants to do. It was very unusual because I've never seen a guy be so confident bombing. So this idea to the theory that we uses benign violation theory, one of the nice things about the theory is that explains the two ways that a humor attempt can fail. So you're trying to find that sweet spot the situation being wrong. Yet, ok, sometimes you create a situation. This just wrong and people are outraged, and sometimes you crazy situation, this just okay and people are bored, and so so, when I, when I bombed when I tried, stand up, I bombed on the benign side, my jokes, they didn't go far enough an audience of ice. Bag hipsters and want to be comedians, and so the jokes I was telling where there are just two boring and benign that night we were talking about smoking, crack and,

bout abortions and all these kinds of things that were like you know just much our savory unsavory thank you risque, but, but what you can find is that three people, I have three different reactions to the same joke so one per and his howling with laughter one per it is totally outraged and the other prisons they come on. Tell me something funny and ends what that shows? You is that in any one audience and the more genius. The audience is more diverse audiences, the more like well you're, going to get all three of those reactions, and I do what you do what Hicks did was fine the people whom he hits the sweet spot worth and then in our nowadays. Imagine what you know what

But what happens is that make now you can identify who your audiences they can find out? Where you are that union stumble into a club anymore? They people go to Sea Joe Rogan, because they know that that he's gonna be funny to them right, even though you know you're, not no offense, but not for everyone. Nobody is here s the key. If you you know, if you try to be fighting for everybody, never going to figure out what the fuck is unique about. What you do your it's a humor, your style of of looking at the world, and that I think that's big part of what comedy is? Will a big part of a company is here's the world through my eyes, but It's not really. Here's the worst reminders. Here's the world through the vision that I Thank you would laugh at. That's not does not like really your take on things and would hit had figured out. I guess long before a lot of people was justice, dear guns, no fine, you, you know that the fuckin field of dreams build it no come in here:

Funny, though I got a thing like this, there are plenty of people stick to their guns right and not theirs. They just don't have a naughty. Yes, sure that's the truth, statement right, there's, there's so many variables involved and like something would listen to that country music thing and they would love each one of those songs individually and can't wait till I come on the radio yet and they're not wrong now, wrong. It's it's a taste issue. What you're saying about the blue collar guys like they figured out how to tap into that that sort of unrepresented aspect of America, which is monstrously huge shoot mean it's like you find out how many, albums are being sold? Country music comes how many people know that music and its is incredible. It's like you're dealing with the whole day. World that you didn't know existed s and large scale, but clarity. It would rather owns our world like that guy does football Arena yeah. You know I am I correct There is some I in my car- and I mean there's like six stations you can, you know you can choose from.

Communist Charlie's. Dacia, thank you, and I bet I regularly try to listen to the blue collar station because it was different and it's like it's good comedy, verity, cable, cars, when a very smart guy is a very good comic: I was shocked when a lot of people like a lobby. Like super jealous, I guess, or they felt like he, Rep scented, races, oars, homophobia or whatever it was his character. Did it's like a lot of people we're really derogatory about my ever like red is jokes, no joke there well written jokes, its characters named Dan Whitney. Ok, I mean it's he's doing it. I mean, I think, about very, like with days clay. You know like you just do you have a character and if you create a character that can work when you really funny, though, if he said he got to certain point was ok money, time to start. Turning on these mother, I legend losing using.

Character to expose like the worst aspects as other life and religious ignorance and be fastened it. You know who the other person, who I think of it as Russell Peters, in what way that he he's found. Amidst so yeah I mean and like a space like there, you know is again: people want a laugh. And he saw awake and he's very I mean you all. This stuff is all contingent on being very good. Yes by very much of the opportunities there are too few Russell transcends I mean he doesn't. Alot of people know him from Youtube his you two clips are giant like yours, you two cups of millions of heads her and that's really what made him beg and he you go to one of Wanna shows its. Not just indian folks, like you'll, find people of all ethnicities, because he does so much on race. Very soon, likeable

you know he's so likeable and he has good points and you know he's justice. A friendly smiley guy up there, you, you wanna, you want, joy on he's then fuck a nice guy ever to live your life he's a sweetheart He'll. Never your honor embodies having bad about Russell, but someone so tells you summons a douche bag. You go on persons really a douche bag our now, but you mean he sought out the oh two arenas in London. Twice yeah he's giant but a lot of them shore alot of his asian folksy folks from India and all sorts of people of all sorts of different ethnic cities. But he deftly found a market the in the hero code, one of the things that they stay doubt, is that no matter where you go people value laughs,

they they value it in there in their personal lives they valued in their leisure time there there. You know it's an escape its away to help cope with a difficult life. That's that's fundamental. I mean you're so fundamental as you find it and in animals. So I have this clip of this club that I show, and I give public talks about these researchers tickling rats. They actually like put their hand into the cage and kind of rough house. These rats and the rats amid the sort of chirpings the signals that their enjoying this activity rat so these and then what happens is this? Is this blows my mind? Is that after they ve done this for a little while Then the research will move their hands away and the rats will chase the hand. To move his hand around the cage and the rats will chase after the hen. Seeking how bad experience, so they wanted

that's stimulation. They want to get that simulation again and that vat chasing is no different than the people who are gonna go to see your show tonight or watch your special you're. Just a rat going hand, whereas the comic I guess so fundamental to to us as organisms, define this kind of this sort of. Like vigilance, arousing experience where right on the edge. You know you're right on the edge of going too far and in Europe, finding with other people over it. It's writs really. By all that about comedy, but I don't know how exactly it relates to rats. How do they know the rats or laughing like when you tickling a rat how to do it. Really understand what their feeling

means to them. So so what were they do their these bad detector? So these are Ultra sonic, so we can hear him with the human ear and what they find they do they do. They do a number of things in these with these experiments. So one of the things that you can do is you can take that tickling too far. You make it too aggressive and those chirps. The laughter is replaced by a different vote. Position that that rats make when they fight. Ah, sir, I enough enough it's like when it's like it. You have kids in their play, fighting bright and then turn o or when you're like when you are too sparring right, barring is, is it's scary, but it's also fun. But then, when it turns into a real fight, it's just get scared right right and so on. They also measured measure these for the physiological changes in the rats right. So their brain chemistry in and so on. So there's these these guys it northwestern their true.

Trying to create essentially happy pills so there, to understand. How do you create positive ocean in rats because they want to The chemicals that can create positive emotion in rats, so the goal of understanding this is because, like most drugs are designed to it like stop negative emotion, the, but the new, like the you know, the frontier is to create drugs that create positive, safely, and so so they ve been for years, been studying rats and they been creating, but then they basically I don't know exactly how they do all these studies, but they they essentially find that this physical experience in rats creates a positive emotion state akin to other positive. You can you can feed rats new other things to create positive emotional states and they basically find that the brain chemistry following this experience is the same as the brain chemistry following other positive experiences and is unlike

the brain chemistry following negative experience case of their there completely monitoring this animal state exotic. Our going on so they're, pretty aware of what exact what's gonna be. Eddies has been doing so for twenty. That is it possible that just looking for affection, like anymore, I mean how complex is the recognition of this. The state this rat is. Oh, it's it's very simple like it's just it's just I like this may be. Like my cat, like when I put my tat ye. Do you know she rubs up against mean she gets excited? It's not tickling her at all. Well, but when you pet, the rat, you don't get the you, don't get the laughter, it's really the rough housing than that by way of carrying on how do you do it? It's like yes, total guy but play. How do you could tell me I wouldn't get sorted out like telling yet so so at the way I think about this is that it is so you have to think about about humor from evolutionary standpoint. Is that

you know, if you, if you like, a non human primates, the things that that monkeys and apes and bonobos laugh at the it's, it's actually call play panting, so its physical forms, physical act, so rough and tumble play in an tickling and so the situations that that induce laughter, have this sort of harmless nature to them. So not all tickling, for instance, induces laughter weren't. You can't tickle yourself, there's no right. There there's no regulation and if, on your way home tonight, some creepy guy and a trench coat tried to tickle you that when the Butler be funny either right suits. So you looking at me not so that the ideas that you have, this sort of sweet spot with tickling you're, the sweet spot with play fighting and- and then as humans evolved and started require language systems of logic, cultural norms, social norms and so on. Now the world of thing

they could go wrong started to expand beyond the physical. Now. It could be a misuse of language, it could be an absurdity. It could be farting right like her, whether farting is ok, you're, not ok is just a social norm, and so the things that could go wrong in the things. The way those things that could be wrong could also be okay, also expanded and it's why I think humours set such a complex thing to study. Because her so many ways to create this positive emotional experience, there's only one way or in rats or a few. You know tiny of a few different ways in rats, but in humans it could be in a slap stick. It could be knock, knock, jokes, have a taboo thing to them. They could be in aiming at any number and so could be a parity. It could be satire, and but all of them across all these different forms of comedy

have the same element. This sort of thing that's wrong, yet ok, right that's a fascinating way of looking at that, I don't think most comedians ever sort of conceptualize think we just try to figure out what's funny about something don't look at it. What's wrong ok and then how everybody sort of agrees that it's ok us and that sort of what like this sort of group recognition laughter is yes, and I think that there is, I think Meetings have been doing this successfully for for a long time. I, what I believe science can provide comedy is it can cut the learning curve So imagine you don't need a theory, but imagine you had a theory so You said I PETE, I believe, you're gonna use benign violation theory. Well, it has an insight, so, for instance, one one strand Do we call the Seinfeld strategy, so you think about what Jerry Seinfeld does is he takes

situations of seem okay and he points out what's wrong with him right, an end when, when Jerry fails or that he he rarely offends anyone. The other strategy is the silver minster energy. She takes a situations. Are so romantic situation, that's wrong and finds a clever way to make it ok, somehow she puts it to a song and movements alone, she's she's, really very non threatening in the way that she does the stuff. So you say so just that incite alone could be useful to a comic right, hey where my starting, my starting with something, that's very clearly wrong to everybody in the room. Let me figure out the way I can make it. Ok, you know. A double one: tundra, misuse of language or find the right victim, etc. Or am I taking as its way everybody Seas is ok and I have to find a way to show them.

How it's also wrong right, and so that's it. That's on a bad strategy to start from writing standpoint verses just like that, really cool we earlier, so that could be a bit Ryan's like ok, you're. Just taking this issue You see, there's something amiss there. That it could serve as a good foundation for a funny joke in its. I dont think very many comedians. Look at it that systematic, I don't think they do, but I'm point as I think that they could read, and I think it could help the Abbe Right magazines being aware of the mechanisms by any such decision doing me allow times it's one of things like counselling and therapy helps people to be aware of the mechanisms that lead you to go off the rails and gonna gambling banjo drinking been like recognise. Steps are taken place that it just being caught up in the wave of momentum, yes and constructive side like

standing. What is or isn't funny about something almost all right, there's understand story, structure right, very few people that enjoy a good book do. Yes, they just sort of like enjoy it and gone on with it, but most writers there, so actually, when you writing like something like a novel, it's sort of makes you do that. Kind of half, do it's like the here If you understand the heroes journey, then you can write a screenplay rain and but people have seen hundreds of heroes journeys, but they don't You don't recognize plot point one. They don't run rise plot point too, even though it happens over and over again. But what was shocking, if anything, about like the process of creating humor, when you run you book. Surprising, maybe a better word? Yes, so was this idea of how the Palestinians were sort more jewish inner comedy that that was very clearly one of them. So one of the things that stood out to us was

So we went to the Amazon with Patch Adams and a hundred hospital clowns. So Hatch Adams, the clown friends a movie at a real patch, real patch, Adam as even know, existed, I thought that was just a constant. Now he's a real man, we yeah and he's like a big man is like six. Six he's is an enormous man and so he's out he's out Robin what you think of him, looking like Robin rags, but doesn't look at all anything. My problem Williams, but we wanted to look at whether laughter is the best medicine. And the answer that, obviously, is no. You know there's other better medicines, antibiotics away, then click yes, but there is good reason to believe that it is useful right. So so experiencing positive emotion, is ignorance. Positive motion is is beneficial in terms of coping. That's pachyderms, that's patch atoms, yeah, the actual

perhaps there is a I've seen him where that chicken on his head eventually got out so um yeah. Don't pull up the pictures of me dressed as a cloud, please assets really bad said made no request arena whatever you do, don't Like somebody wants picture undress. Microclimate I mean I was a terrible clown. But but it was always my co. Author is a much better com and I will then than I am, and I mean that in a positive way ratchet I'll, never say anything bad about a clown ever again after spending a hunt like a couple weeks with a hundred hospital clowns in in like this destitute area of of the Amazon, locates apposite emotions of having a good sense of humor is beneficial for coping because we'd, like people who are funny- and we like people who can be, can make jokes in the face of tragedy, and so it helps muster

social support. So if when the chips are down more than ever do need your friends and family and if you're, if you're able to be a little bit like about it all, it helps those people kind of stick with you verses you just turning into this horrible, angry, sad person, right no one wants to be around right and then the last one- and I think this is the most important one, and certainly the one this most is most under studied- is the act of making a joke about a tragedy not only creates positive emotion, leads people to like you, but it can fundamentally change the way. You see that situation you can reappraise it in a way that they can be beneficial So the example I like is that when we're in New York, we met with Todd Hansen, who was the head writer at the onion when they publish their most famous issue two weeks after the nine slash, eleven attacks

What would the onion did will, which was so brilliant? Was it instead of doing sort of too soon comedy fail and making fun of the victims and making fun of the tragedy they turned it on to the terrorist? They made fun of the terrorists. They had like headlines like terrorist surprised to find themselves in hell and, if you think about it, what if you're laughing at these terrorists, undermined the terror that they're trying to create cause you you know it's impossible to be scared and used at the same time ran so so what the onion did was like a great little, whose great for the american because it reintroduce comedy into the into the culture again, it brought them some joy and it also made the terrorists a lot less. Mary and so in that way, like laughter, is good medicine because it can serve all these kinds of purpose, Why? When people or mark to get furious cause you

sort of your defusing the. What's? What significant about them your marketing year, Yes, you're, making me you're, making them seem less serious, Mammy less the classic, seen from good fellows when my fuckin clown Macleod feel like it's like people get angry. If you think something they do his funny, it becomes diminishing aspect like you innate, almost want to fight you to get their energy back. Here, I mean well so there's a lot. So humour was we think of comedy as like a very positive thing in the present world, but it does have its roots, actually a rather negative, so Plato and Aristotle wrote about about humor. But they saw it as a subversive thing. So they saw it as a negative kind of thing. How so? Well! So, if you think about it, what this sort of like the sneering, the laughing at versus the laughing, with there's a long history of ridicule, for instance, is that because

we are putting down. People and so in that way, you're if youth and energy as in the sort of superior position and and Yemen, you can see the time we're government was seen as a more positive thing that it is nowadays, and so when you, when you take when you did when you using comedy the critique people. It can be seen as a negative thing right, and so I'm sorry. We also so there s who like over and over again you sort of fine. This you find this guy deal like so Thomas Hobbs in them I a thin, talked about laughter rising from sudden glory from from the sun defeat of your enemies and you are you're laughing as in the sort of superior position and

and young, and you can see these things kind of today right. So people telling racist, jokes people's telling sexist jokes people going too far with their bill, Cosby, jokes and making people upset they. That is not always used for good. Even of peat. Some people are laughing other people are not so it can be a really divisive exclusive thing or it could be the kinds of things that we were talking about earlier. We are bringing everyone together and celebrating. Some idea to you know together, That's that's fascinating. That used to be thought of as a negative thing. These we thought of, like humour, was only for marking purpose exact. Wasn't like a community gathering like that in one of them things about a stand up. Comic you, you sort of think of some one standing in front of a group of friends, and you know making a speech in every one laugh and I've always imagined at that was sort of the the origin of like someone being forced.

To make a speech somewhere and its ultimate attributed to Mark TWAIN. The mark TWAIN did like book readings and he did speeches and he was notoriously. Funny in these yes, and that he was kind of the the original stand up. Comedians she'll commentator, slash political satirist, I think he's one of the funniest people ever to never to this day, he has got lines that could be written by a modern media like his line about religion like a religion. Was click was created with the This time a con man meant a sucker or something along those lines in paraphrasing right when the is the religion was created, I'm a con man made the for the for the first con man made the first fool. So if you, if you down

the benign violation. Theory, one of the best pieces of evidence, for it is a quote that Mark TWAIN Road. He said that the secret source of humor is not joy but sorrow. There is no laughter in Heaven and regret to me that and is really profound, because because what he's essentially saying is you need something wrong. I'm I'm I'm sorry repeat myself. I apologise, but but because heavens perfect, we're cause it's blissful, it's a wonderful place to be, but there's not jokes brain you know, because, because with perfection, you do not get comedy. You need in perfection. More were always struggling to try to achieve this ultimate state of bliss wherewi struggling to try to achieve this state of enlightenment and just emptiness and being free all of our negative worries. But what we appreciate in life is the triumphs over the hardships

well. We appreciate, as you know, the beer after the long hard day, you dont want just wake up. Drink beer, you're, missing the whole fuckin appointment. You know it's like the lot We winner is classic example, someone just hand its money. They always wonder, losing and appreciated. Just all falls apart slips through their fingers partially because I didn't earn it. They didn't experience of difficulty involved in to this incredible state. We have always zeros and your bank account. I think we need adversity, it did. It is important for us, well and you're going to have it as humans rights. As you know, this would make the van through policies of the world talk about how social, like social interactions are about. Conflict rang fundamentally about conflict and, and you take away the conflict, and then you take away that this. You know the source of jokes run right like here and so an tween in a room. I then a fight that, in a way

That has really had a big effect on me because it is counter intuitive you're sort of yours referral your browser over this idea that that Humours, this negative thing from a historical perspective, but You know even today, even the conversations we have highlight, how it's just a tool and you could use it for good or you could use it for evil. You know some people could be laughing and others not, but I think we all agree that the best comedy does one of two things that either unites people, it's very inclusive or it speaks truth, the power you know, so you not putting down you're, not pat, putting down the put the low status person. But if you are gonna put someone down you put down, the hall Status person has a problem with that SAM Tennysons bit about feeding starving people in Africa, so are the best bits ever and it's basically marking starving people for being stupid enough to live in the desert. So are the greatest bits of all time.

So you're sit at home, China, joys and food. You made from scratch, and this guy anti, we you help launch Aren't you I'll be right there, because what innovative stops the money. Some people like me, so people are go. Way overnight go hey. We just five hours. Would your food and recur to us there be world Hunger review paper whenever they found, and it goes to this whole crazy bid, which is wrong and so fucked up where he's taken starving people can work Fucker. You know that as that San who's gonna, be. For years now pockets and we got desert in America Dough we're just I'll, never know it's so wrong, but so fucking hilarious. It's one of the best bits ever and it's not punching up some country. By any stretch of the imagination, so I don't buy that. I think that that's that's! That is problem with it. It's a social justice standpoint and that is not always applicable theirs. It there's a sort,

contract. The audience- the committee and that we know you fuckin around a high. We know SAM Kennison was in Africa. Answer, kids were starving, he wouldn't be grab them in making the meat there s. Okay, this is a joke. It's wrong in its awful, but amazing It's amazing cause it's wrong off and the african coast, I need to see it. Nobody get hurt, which is altogether in his room and we're gonna laugh ass, so I agree with you that funny it's funny and that's you in comedian buddies basically say is not too soon. If it's funny right now, that's the standard, so that Joe, So here is the challenge I think of a vat joke today is because of social media, that a joke that wasn't intended to be broadly cons and but of course, him out and was on HBO, but well get so so this is one of his best bids that he did on a young comedian special, mainly what really I mean, but in so

whence is russian went Scandinavia to come to look at the Mohammed. Khartoum controversy, wool and that's an exam. Although of now that the world is flat that it causes problems, because this group of fairly unfunded poetic Cartoons that were designed to punch down were designed to two to make Muslims in Denmark feel not welcome and created, peaceful demonstrations are and so on somehow made their way to the Middle EAST and became part of a political may. Busy became a political tool and then middle, like literally set in the Middle EAST, on fire, like riots, hundreds of people, dead and alike. From cartoons from cartoons. While these were cartoons of the prophet Mohammed Brain drawn by danish people, the EU perspective

is the first time I've ever heard it put that way. That part of the issue was the fact that the cartoons weren't good and if they were punching down I'm not even heard that before I don't know, I'm not familiar with the actual cartoons, that's what I've heard was just. It we're cartoons and that religious fundamentalists went fuckin, crazy and killed people over them. Well, that's true by that's not what I started off. That's the full story doesn't before so what and was a sort of right wing newspaper, invited cartoonist, political cartoonists to submit cartoons of the prophet Mohammed, so there's nothing in the Korean says you can draw the prophet Mohammed, but part of islamic culture, culture, it's sort of a no no right. There are some. AMOS depictions of the prophet Mohammed there's one in in the Supreme Court, for instance, that is like court of the United States, real. Yes,

Think by design I dont alights, there seems like an anti islamic sentiment like maybe if they knew that that was a no, no and it said split it up their follow them I have no idea. I shouldn't do not pull that occur so So what they did was invited these cartoonists to draw these cartoons and the idea was of it was it was sort of a kind of like freedom, speech Torreon policy like draw Mohammed Day, or something like that. If you think I like a dozen people who actually drew these, and some of them were were jokes on the newspaper, so this guy Lars Ref, in that we met, he drew a picture of This kid named Mohammed and he rode on a chalkboard in Danish, in others, newspapers a bunch of like a right wing fascists Renzo him because he knew they said they would published anything that they receive in another guy who who drew actually a picture of the prophet with a turban turned bomb. So

like the old cannonball bomb coming out of the house in urban country. That's that's the really, the one that that is like the most upsetting of all of these conditions, What in initially in Denmark, there were protests o thou? Five percent of the population is muslim in Denmark, so very small part of the population and its, and they those folks have their struggles there. It's you know it's. Otherwise, a really homogenous place they engaged in in demonstrates a peaceful demonstration over all of this. They weren't happy about it kind of liberal folks in Denmark were unhappy about it, but you know freedom of speech and you got a kind of deal with this kind of stuff. On occasion, then it's sort of went away and it and until later someone essentially brought the the drawings to them. It would act. Is actually. There is some conversation between, countries in the Middle EAST and the government and

government Stone Walled, because we know that we know that this have to happen because Sweden literally happen. What it you say didn't have to o was that So then what ended up? Having basically was that folks took these cartoons you know to Syria and so on, and the syrian government use this as a way to get people really fired up and then to turn this into a kind of an international conflict. And but we know that this was largely political Because I, like a year later, the same kind of thing- could have happened in Sweden, so this artist drew more and inciting cartoons where they are actually drawings of Mohammed Head on the body of a dog he drew like three panels of this stuff, and it showed up in an

gallery and that's even more insulting, culturally and so. But what happened very very quickly? Was the swedish government apologized? They just sk. We said we don't think this is right, we're very sorry that this happened. They didn't get to a place where they were just like. Oh, this is freedom of speech he can do whatever he wants and that sort of what happened with the with the danish government at that time and so it ended up becoming this. I really crazy, like political tool, they end up getting Brad because of the internet, and a lot of people saw this stuff who would never normally have seen. It and and so on, and so in that way I mean I, I, whether the cartoonist were being insensitive or not depends on your borders. Insensitive mean you're, marking an ideology that based on animal skins or based on some shit. There was,

passed on from generation to generation. If you're talking about Christianity, you're Talkin bout Scientology, what mean when you're mocking things, if you find something to mock about something in it rings true enough, the people laugh at it. What what is insulting is insulting that they ve on something ridiculous, you're ideology or is it? insulting that their bothering to critique your ideology or mark your ideology at all and aren't ideologies. Open targets. Well, so I think so according to a tool of political cartoonist. Absolutely right! I mean I think, that's the that that that's was it job whose it not only too well I think the idea this is that that what you can have, as some people laughing and some people horrified right in, So this is the the idea I mean I mean it.

It really depends on. What is your goal like? What is your level of sensitivity? What is your goal? If you're gonna have to point out what's wrong with the world into critique the world than you then you're just like? Well, you know, if you want to make an omelette, you gonna break some eggs yeah, you know, and so that's fine, but if you do, if you dont want to put if you dont want to punch Is that punching down no mean? Is it punching down when your marking a controlling ideology? That's response, or for some really regressive ideas. I mean like the way they treat women and women's rights to vote and drive that just the wearing of the budget, the stoning for adultery, all the across the board, things that are a part of Islam, That said, that seems to me at least, to be a divisive and damaging sort of ideology. I don't think it's punching down to mock something. Well in

I think in the case of them a hammock cartoons, it was in part because what this newspaper essentially was doing was saying. If you want to be part of our culture, you you need to be able to laugh about these kinds of things whom so, it was. It was being used to sort of set these folks apart, I mean you know, and so, regardless of what you might of Islam in general. I think the intentions of the newspaper in that case it is hard to see how that it was terribly gracious. What is so I'm a confuse. It was just that was the most offensive. One was Mohammed with his turban. Was a bomb the that was the most offensive and in relation to an idea, gee. That is obviously the most radical aspects of it and not supported by a vast majority of the muslim population, but has a large of suicide bombings, not in Denmark

damn right around the world with that are associated with Islam, radical Islam jihadists. I'm the guy, and I mean you take any together. Major religion and you can find a great deal of violence. Perpetrated in the name of that right, religion right like it's, it's as happens to be too your finding it and in his but everything you ve, seen it in Catholicism and seen it elsewhere. Right I mean you know. So I look. I am all for the idea of of taking whether it be religion, whether it be in government and now we're just getting to my personal opinions about learning Sally we're getting into thoughts about what is punching up and what is plunging down like Islamophobia is a very strange thing that has like recently joined are vernacularly us and when you leave my guy like the angry man in the clouds. All you want. You rock Jesus me. Sam Kennison had hilarious jokes about Jesus. I people you thank, you come back here you go

The last thing the Jesus ever said will not be left out of you would go. I think that's the last thing we have heard from him, and he did this whole thing Jesus and Jesus being married, and I was crazy shit and nobody, but I mean he was a Christian thoroughly start out Christian, nobody accused him of Christian a phobia. Our wasn't out of his an affront to a minority group by that doesn't mean that that SAM stuff wasn't terribly offensive to Christian. To some Christian. Some question is sure. I said that I mean there, that's the centrally. What were what we're talking about as like? So is it? You know it's one thing to make fun of the Pope and verses like taking something that people hold you're provided they hold dear there. There were the whole thing that the top that commie attacks is what causing you to believe in this. What is cut away,

If I can market- and I can find holes in it- and you say that's offensive- will then you're seeing the comedies offence. I don't know I want to be very clear. So the idea of what I would call the point that I wanted to make is that in a world in modern day, is that a joke That was very funny and intended for this audience, but never would have reached them twenty years ago now would never reach another audience that finds that joke terribly offensive in an end in it is this ok. Well, that's, as happens. You know which Oki referring to whatever joke it may be like whatever happens and in comedy club backs, shows up on Youtube and people like I can't be that person was making a rape joke, or I read these kinds of things: the Mohammed Cartoon controversy, Is an extreme version of that that

cartoons should have had their fifteen minutes of fame and Denmark, they created a bit of of conflict peaceful, you know, protests and so on made people feel a little bit. You know set aside and that could pass that. That now is a much more dangerous thing nowadays, because information can I can go on. Google and pull them up and see these things you know in that way and that to me that was like a surprising, fascinating thing about the world of comedy now I know that that is impossible to make a sum, universally funny, because people are too different and whether and how you want to go by making your com- and I go tell someone how to go about making her comedy or non who they want to make the victim and who they want to make fun of another kind of stuff. I mean that's that's up to the to the artist right, but

I get confused me if you're doing stand a comedy. Are you doing satire and political satire cartoons? If that's the most offensive thing? dialogue is the issue at all. Is this cartoon? I think the issue is the reaction to satire the reaction. To comedy mean people really burning things in the street in over a guy with a bomb in is turban. I think that the true issue is who are these people and why they freaking the fuck out over our two. What that's incomplete, total overreaction. I don't think that's punching down here. I agree with you about this wretched. The the fault lies, though, in the syrian government in this in this particular situation, because Doris they got a they lead and happened. I mean this is this is a place at the time that that everybody was under there farm so they let these riots happen where they wanted. The riots too I said you know, I guess it's so that chapter in the book reads a little bit like a mystery.

Four run, because we're sort of uncovering these clues along the way trying to figure out. How did this bizarre situation surely occur being at a university and in our being an academic and being around like really progressive people. All the time do you think it necessarily flavour? Is your idea of what is and is an acceptable in terms of comedy Cosette that term punching abused its several? arms and that's a term that you see all the time when people or creed. Sizing comedians. For you know, really extreme acts or offensive. They would consider be offensive, jokes, even if its in cheek or would have you like this concept of punching up is like its fairly fairly. With current t, I'd say I pick that up from the role of comedy from rivalling scholars, but I do I do I certainly you know how I certainly hey Lake spend time. In fact, meetings with my fair share of ice

Recoup progressives. Indeed, I mean I'm in a business school, so they're not like totally outrageous progressives, but but I can see you like head. I words and you like tread lightly on. So you may you, you dance the the death of a man with tiny, why I've got tenors. I could go even further than I blogging amicably ranks in you now, that's really what we need. I mean I understand I get intention to me, should be everything and if it's you your intention to get violent and upset, because someone mocks what you think is divine. That's your crazy person and if they don't make fun of crazy people that are willing to riot and light things on fire, regardless of the motivation behind it, a who started in who instigated and at the end of the day a guy drew a cartoon. You want to kill him like that's the humor, there's no punching down there that that's like if that created that that's good motors like marking, the ridiculous of this civilization, mocking the ridiculous,

now of ideology and how attached people become to them with all that's all. It is a bomb and a hat, I would say author. I agree with you in this I agree with you in this way the I met the cartoon, as he now lives under armed guard cut and as I like island peed in his panic room like his bath and converted into a pilgrim on all of his walls throughout his house are pictures of of him doing this to any religion more or less right. So the silver him he's he's just punch. Like to him? It doesn't matter what he's just like. I'm there too sad arise right and so he's not people might seem as an. I'm off over whatever it may be, but he does this with Christians. Who does this right who's. He designs halls ever where is the whole, does refer for a living right right. You know that in that way, and so he doesn't think what he it is wrong and he would, I suspect, probably

Do it again on a good question it out of the air crazy. We didn't. We get some guy break into his house with an axe and he had the like hide in his panic room until the why the equivalent of the F B, I came in shopper guy, that's crazy, Well, there was a guy they got stab. There was a guy in HOLLAND, was the guy got murdered for some depiction of Mohammed has been more than one attack and death whenever a religion says that if you draw our guy will kill you like. That is crossing a line. You know- and I I think there's this this is a trend in this society, especially towards Non VI and towards recognising. Also that the amount of aggression that's directed, where's Muslims is possibly racist and most certainly due to the fact that we have been Rather than a prolonged war with the Middle east- and I think people recognising that this a lot of aspects, this war, unjust and eight- they

Egmont those people off as being marginalize and to be protected with extreme prejudice, as I was too maybe some Christians who live in Iowa, which were to be openly marked in Alex you, no one. That's in trouble for mark Christianity, but if you mark Islam yeah. I mean how many times as it bp. We live a click. Islamic because a strange thing to say: first of all, you you were you you think of it as a racism thing, but it's not a race its Listen it's an ideology. There's a lot of atheists that live in Pakistan. There's atheists live in Syria. There's atheists that live in muslim strongholds. It's an ideology! It's now. It has nothing to do with with a race it just attached to erase because a large already of the people in that raise? Have this ideology that subscribe to, but it's just an operating system and this guy's, only mocking an operating system is not necessarily mocking every one that has been unfortunate enough to be indoctrinated interest,

incredibly controlling and archaic ideology. I don't know either saying your point, I'd really do. The idea is the punching down thing was confined in Argentina and defined here. Maybe I miss that yeah, so I mean I do have I tend to think about these things in terms of like what are their kind of behavior all and social effects right, and I again I'm not. I don't think about comedy. I'm I'm thinking bout. Like humor, I cannot imagine humour in the workplace rang and in couples and among friends and and all these kinds of things, and I generally

Do you believe that this idea of the best comedy whether it be profession or otherwise unites people, and when it doesn't, when it divides people, it's trying to keep an eye out for the weak It's trying to keep an eye out for the oppressed, that's my own personal subject, as my own personal opinion like if it's just I'm getting laughs at something else, but if you want to try to take that laughs to the next level, bats That's the framework that I I use in terms of trying to measure goodness so to speak, but that vat idea could evolve. As I think more about this kind of stuff could some of it is. By virtue of a more users, are putting up you're like so. If you, we're a liberal making fun of the new

republican Senate you're going to upset conservatives right, and so it s, I think what you're trying to save what appears to be punching. Or punching down, isn't necessarily the case because her so many different constituents out there, not only that there is a lot of people that fancy themselves as being very sensitive and very kind very open. They are absolutely vicious in their attacks on people who don't support their ideology and they they will call it punching up call it punch analyzing the whig doing. Is you have a different point of view on filling them? Guy Control, whatever the fuck. It is right and because the They are deemed to be the enemy of a green light to attack them and In my opinion, a lot of is a lack of a psychedelic perspective and that a lot of these people, form groups, they form tribes and they stick within the confines of the tribe mean these. This. This is that the enemy

of religion psychedelic and when you look at ideologies, especially really super rigid ideologies, they have to be enforced, then the Islamophobia likely that criticising of Islam being of a mocking over large anyway you're the reaction to that. Do you I do I get it, I get it where's weight, so I understand you're saying you have basically saying is a view. That is not true to say that you can't critique this religion comedic or otherwise, because it hurt some people within it ends up being to narrow minded could you should be able to, of course, to critique rights of using our. You can't do that, because you're hurting this group of people without their there is some great benefit of critiquing. Whatever system of oppression system power that exists, if if you can make someone laugh like if you have an opinion, I have an opinion. You go on stage and used

your opinion. I go all I disagree. I have a different opinion. If you make me laugh with your opinion on almost employing a mass railways that we were doing right, but look there's a lot of peace. That have valid opinions that you might not agree with. But if you're a progressive or your liberal, it seems there's an open target to mark them like here's. A perfect example is people who don't believe in abortion, and I'm dutch prefaces pro choice, one hundred percent always have been. I think a woman's right to choose is as a very important part of our culture the morning after pill but the reality is what is going on. There is a bus thing in your body that could become a life in you choose to stop that from taking place. Some people have a fundamental problem with that, because they think that it's killing a life right and did to pretend that this isn't a debatable issue, I think, is Clearly disingenuous, it does become a person eventually,

saying you shouldn't be able to do it, I'm saying you absolutely should, and it's not my fuckin business at all, but we people who die believe an abortion. It will be more as being stupid as being ignorant as being religion, anti woman. You know that you know fuck and say them. Venomous, vile shit about because it doesn't conform with their very rigid too. Idle ideology. The tribe of progressives, I agree and its rights of Christians pro pro life. They. What would never consider them stability. That is just a few Sal's like if I, if I just give you a pill and those three, it's three cells. No, it still life. It's three cells. It's three cells. We stop three cells when it gets to six. Stop it insects, it's a real debate. I show you the way we, I agree with you. It's a real debate. Actually, it's magic. If you can take a relative relativism perspective, you can see how very clearly its real debate that you can understand why someone would be

Antiabortion? Yes, you can. I mean I'm not, but I can understand- and I see it too, but to pretend that it does that it's that its ignorant and two to go after it, with viamede, vile and and we see the opposite happens to write those on both sides are regularly and now where. So, what so, my question for you as well, This stop. So let's say so. I rode tweets David said: there's a street and allay called climate change. Re like I just denying Keyser passes Ozone street thy father. You funny tree the clearly teamwork, not great but perspective context, but, like Europe are aware, how much should we be debating climate change at this point? You know because, like em opinion. That's all it's like that. It's all over Oh me, but it's pretty! Damn close, you know, and so it so at some point like so in his abortion one. I think you and I can agree whatever

on personal opinion, as I can see how another person would have exactly the opposite and have very good reasons to believe that. Yes, at what point does it become a situation? We go no you're wrong. What comes at the climate change. The real issue is what information do? How at your disposal like? Are you a geologist? Are you did you have a degree and under? standing the cycles of of weather or you just parroting some shit, you some wacky right wing website. I mean I don't know. If you want to talk to someone about climate, and there are so many variables when it comes to climate change. That are absolutely incredibly fascinating, like the fact that North America point time was under a mile high sheet of ice and that global cooling, which has been a part of reach Quality throughout time is much more terrifying and global warming is also to think everyone's. The sky is following. This guy is evolving and I think that human beings are disgusting, dirty creature. To pollute everywhere. We girl I've seen eight praises of keeping track with eight prices in my life throw cigarettes.

The window was arose with Ngos and a lot of ways. A lot of us, a gross russia. There's no debate that we fucked up the atmosphere that might be, is how much does everybody say? You know that guy, Warming is here and climate changes caused by people how much information do they individually have before this our spouse. In these ideas, I say very little. I agree with that, but I will review read to chuck willowy twitting member him from love ass. Of course, when I back into into he's whack job he's a crane really super right wing Obama, Haider now climate change. Believer! Listen to! I read is tweets all the time he was going crazy because of the snow and Buffalo. Oh yeah highlighted lake of textile evidence that there's no global warming or my about now actually is global warming, thus contributing to that cause. There's like climate change, so here I mean I'll. Tell you this one other thing:

has been really fun as a scientist is getting to do what we're doing, because scientists are really terrible about getting their ideas out into the public discourse because they're not rewarded for it right. So so I get rewarded too, to write peer, reviewed publications that very few people read even fewer people sites in use for for future research. But because I wrote this book in my blog and I do all this kind of stuff now I can enter into a conversation with more. And just other scientists. If scientists were were much better about getting their ideas out there, they could actually took us politicians are very good about getting their ideas out, no matter how good or bad the ideas are. So It is a really terrible about it, but they worked very hard to get their ideas right. That's their advantage

and so you see this in the sort of climate and energy like thou. They have to rely on journalists to be the sort of com. Do it. They don't do that kind of thing that I'm during which I have really enjoy doing. I think this is, I think, humor such important thing to understand that you need to do the Peer review publication stuff, but you also need to enter into a conversation right with professionals and the public to talk about this kind of stuff yeah oh yeah! Well, I think, gum humor is a weird thing because you could say something and it be really. And then I can see the exact same thing and no one would laugh or probably there, you have any one Irene arms and virtually everyone has their whatever it is about them. That makes them funny again, that's very intangible. There's some weird shit like there's their symbols. Some things that would work with some comedians and if you would write them

on paper you would say, like Miss Hedberg again, I hated by the light of this stuff. If you wrote down on paper and then read it even like us, are funny all don't use and on stage, but when he does it, it's genius. Is something about personality, charisma, all these weird intangible things that are very difficult to measure and as a scientist, how do you account for that He tried alike, quantify what what is funny or analyze, the components of fun. So it depends on the question. So so, if the quite so in some cases that error right so in some cases were not interested in the role that the person eyes, and so what we do is we just randomly assign people to one of two tasks, and so the hopeful you get that a number of of Mitch. Is on the right, is on the left right. One group as in the other group, and that even itself out when it comes?

to understanding the sort of individual differences you sort of personality differences and so on. That's a lot harder, because can't randomly assign some one to be like Mitch or like Joe. You know now you the measure it and each We have to measure some something that interest is another level of air raid, because how is it that you can measure it accurately like reliably gear and So a of reliability influences the validity of your conclusions that you can see that you can draw for so. I have a particular way. My own research. I try to avoid individual differences as much as possible, because you're in you're not manipulating them, your measuring them in a timely measure, verses manipulated, it just makes life a whole lot. Harder

where I'm headed, though I have to pay attention to individual differences, because what we're doing and hurl so that for six years we study what mixing funny the next six years we're going to try to make people funnier, that's what we're gonna be doing fun. Having for yes do. You know me sore and write a new act least my old act, every new act. How do I get funnier? We can weaken that I would love to do that. I've been unusually mushrooms with unlimited locks. Not with us I mean I don't you know what I do. I can answer that question for sure, because no one's ever done that research of right- that's where we're going now, but to under to be able to do that. You will get a have to measure individual differences because you can have Oh how funny, if someone is yeah and in measure them again to point B, if you have to understand like what it there are good at what they not good at and so on, and so so the answer by my quick answer is you gonna measure it and it's very hard to do, but that's where we're headed measuring it.

Damn them the ability to make someone funnier though it. What would you do what you like analyze their act and say that I give you did it this way, or maybe you should approach it tat way like you? Would you would you do it on a like a delay, every basis a routine basis bit by bit. Right so see I've ever proper control right. So so to me, I think that the best control I have this idea for this project. I wonder I wanna do a tv special on this thing. You do you take one group of people and you you commit them that kind of typical comedy enhancing tools that exist in the world right. So they they'd do an improv group. They do a stand up Fang. They read some books about how to do this stuff, like you, expose them too funny people in a who do it for a living and get some coaching right. That's probably the only

things that exist. If someone really wanted to become funnier, the only things exists, but unlike say, carpentry there are certain people that just won't be funny. I, though I struggled to say that, because I've seen guys get much better yes, but there's a certain level of clueless. Some folks possess thou inescapable. So now, if the goal is to rate funny stand up comedians? I agree with you. If the goals to create some one who is more funny now than they were before, then say well, maybe you're right, because some people are just there just terrible in public. In ITALY, but could I get went to send funnier emails or be funnier with his kids? word Susie a better manager too, you know So some of it is a matter of ident identifying wears a person strains

the medium right, and so so, when I say, improves someone sense of humour, it can be along many Different dimension, Ryan, I say I dont think the goal is to make funnier stand up. Comics, I think, like we have plenty of funny stand. Comics in the system works pretty well but when I have like a lotta like really crappy unfunded customer services, I think that they would have to u super focused on it, but I think, but I think that we will do in proving comedy, look even professional chest players and we think it all the incredible disciplines that that are involved, that need coaching even gymnast when there are a gold medal level they still need encouraging doctors, world championship boxers still of coaches, Bernard Hopkins. Forty nine years old, he still has professional coaches that work with them that are constantly analyzing technique and comics or on their own. I think what you're doing, if of comical, be open. Minded like a lot of comics are very protective of the crew.

Process in their renegades, like what the fuck do. You know what we see your five minutes do five minutes and then tell me if you could tell jokes for me, or you know correct my jokes Joe: let's make a shell what kind of show accusation max and get a better view, science to make them funny. It's work with some folks in. I think an open minded folk, so I'll tell you one of the Heavens prevention idea, not for comics, but for regular everyday people that, I believe, will help and it's it's facilitating what we call a growth mindset, so there so you can roughly take persons, belief system about their skills and and put him in one of two categories, either affixed mindset or a growth mindset, senses work by M Carol. Dweck a social psychologist. Affixed mindset believes that you're just sort of born that way, and so, if you have a fixed mindset about intelligence, for instance

Then an intelligence test is just a race to see how how smart you are right. Mrs a ranking system right, and if I rank higher than you than I think, I'm smarter than you, and I think that that will always be the case, but a growth mindset, a test and intelligence test is just a benchmark. It just tells me how smart I am relative to you right now, but it shows me where I can go in terms of gettings getting smarter and you can imagine having a fixed or growth mindset about shyness, for instance, some people believe you're just shy and other people like while I'm shy now, but I can overcome the shyness, etc. Humor is, I think, fits I think. Most people have a fixed mindset about their sense of humor I think that they just like well, this is how funny I am in this adjust. That's the way it will be right, but if you can convince them that they can become funny, if you can transform them from having a fixed mindset to a growth mindset.

All of a sudden that opens up the possibilities that they'll try to do the things to actually become here. What variables you think you have to address to make someone funnier. I have my ideas on this, but I'm curious as to like what your thoughts. What variables would you have to address to try to make some kind of parting to get more funding give deletion? I do something about ok, five. More minutes is actually almost anyway, I'm gonna time at three o clock. I'd have yet been three hours, a crazy yeah flies by then. I do not expect that what what what needs to be here with you only Rio to say self awareness down as a big things for us with and we call that self monitoring behind the literature. Yes, men are very clueless about other people, see them as a lot of men go by their like on em, an ego momentum right now and especially their accomplished in the way of their manager of people that have to listen to them.

Things- you see happen to people that become famous well, is like a month ago, some, like might have been what happened caused America right this down yeah, I'm certainly do self awareness, especially the man, is a real issue, one of the most annoying Things is someone who's, a guy who thinks he's funny who's, not funny at all and tries to like That's the last jokes in there just like super of noxious, and you don't see. Like if you ever seen a real boorish guy who's, not funny at all who is like maybe a manager somewhere any tries cracking jokes around a fee? now employ right who might be smarter than but has to listen this fucking idea because she works forms like God. That is the complete total opposite of funny. The only waited that guy to understand how the people would see him so you'd have to point out. I give to accede

Let us look at yourself, though, is someone else would see? Do you try to actively work on your flaws? Do try to actively assess how you're being perceived by others right. I agree with that. That's very nice could what it does is it. It turned someone's attention to their audience yet an end. If you want to be funny, you can't just think about what you find funny right. You know, especially like it. In a mixed setting. Will you can, but you have to figure out a way to get other people to see your point of view ass such sites like the war, those doing and of comedy that one of the tricky aspects of it like how do you get someone coffin enough to let you take them on a ride so yeah. We do this and what we ve been experimenting with this sum. We're just started running the study where we're looking at on these. We use these reflection tat these there's a good diary study. Basically, so you have someone for like two weeks every day at the end of the day, do one of two things they eat.

Talk about what I laughed at and why or another what so. We call that Weiler for short and then we have Wola what others laughed at and why and what we are doing with this study is to see, is one better than the other at getting people to better appreciate, humor and better produce humor, and so what you're suggesting? Is that Wola what others laughed at? And why would be a more effective intervention then, while what I laughed and at why? Because what a bull a diary study does? Is it gets you to think about what other people are finding funding, not just what you think is fun. Let's do it. She more aware and a sense so yeah, but not even what others laugh at, but how others perceive you, because it's it's again who's the messenger sort of a thing.

Because there are some ideas- that if you gave him to the hands of a skilled comedian, Likud betray those ideas and how to be really hilarious, whereas as other p who would bring up the same jargon? They would be thought of as a real ass horse short sighted or insensitive. Yes, it's a matter of how much do I trust as persons intelligence and how they're going to tackle concept You're talkin, if someone's on stages, like Pat Nods, Walt very measured, intelligent, guys, curious and he's gonna. Look at something and go why that and you're gonna go. I want to know what he thinks about this subject. Allow him to think for me, but if its summit- like a really crude open, Michael Talk, tackling the same subjects, they might have a good point, but they enter into it. Am handedly they dont undressed and how the audience sees them. They are too, maybe they

over enthusiastic. They look nervous on the MIKE, in others, alleys variables or boorish, like being an account manager, and these people have to listen to us. You know, that's it yeah. So one of the things that I talk about, like a good starting point, is just make fun it yourself some, like a very simple this, as you know, the self deprecation or right, because it almost fits the definition of a benign violation like your pointing out. Something is wrong with yourself, but because it's it's you, you can do it by two makes it okay and that can lead to in a light. It gets a laugh alot. It leads to liking. You know, you're, not worried about offending people, alleys, Tippit,

only in this way, and so you can imagine sort of three types of intervention. So some of them are tactics like that. You know, try develops a little bit of self deprecation. Another one is is the sort of like changing one, the wave someone thinks about the world about themselves that may lead them to to pursue the to pursue improvement, and then this other one which looks like it's just like in general, was like you give them an understanding of the world of humor that they don't understand, don't get it like. Most people haven't thought hard about humor the way comics have they haven't. They don't really think about these individual differences. They don't think about this punching up punching down. They don't think about

how it might have its roots and negative emotion me negative experiences that they don't really think about the two way that it can fail, etc, and so some of it is like you give them a crash course to understand this topic. You get them to believe that they can come back to get better at it, and then you give them a variety of different strategies and tactics by which to improve it, and then you force than the practice, because it's not gonna happen overnight. It's gonna take a long time ago. The same way, the things meditation and gratitude, and so on can be so you can, you can make people more capacity, can make them more grid. Like gracious. Have more gratitude, you can do all these kinds of things, but none of these interventions happen quickly. They take racks and monster to do it's a practice

yeah. I am, I think, that the growth of any art form depended upon. What you're starting point is is about analyzing the effectiveness of the previous strategies and finding out what were the holes in the game are yes to beautiful thing about comedy, as you could watch are those people do it well, he's nicer than in smiles last day she smiles and now She starts off making fun of herself and then make fun of other people that are similar to herself. I see what she's doing yes, you know one That's that's something that it requires you again. It requires you to analyze yourself and if you know not analyzing yourself. If you, if you going through life like especially Eagle binders, you put up is the worst thing. Is when a comic bombs- and you have you a girl good at it really got the route, and I thought I was they're stupid I saw, Can you not getting a good if you believe that you did good when you each and all you'll, never o the others, research on this? They cod and

killed and unaware that has this is that bit, but incompetent people are doubly cursed, so their cursed with their incompetence but they're. There also cursed with the inability to recognise or incompetence, and so so you never get better yeah as a result of it all, and so those people make lousy. Comics ice do a bit about dumb people out fucking, smart people, Lennox the pyramids, whether around there's nobody and am, but one of the part that parts of it was about what things about being dumb. As you don't realize, you're dumb, that's part of being done. My allotted say, there's a lot of dumb people write another laugh and this joke because they think of. And what somebody else, because you don't realize you're dumb, because it's a part of being stupid, unaware I'll, send you. The paper is research that they do this they did was it

again, would you unskilled and unaware, unskilled and unaware that if they get double curse is yeah? That's it's terrific objectivity and introspection their important for anything it sports for In writing. I, like your friend, we're talking about, like Europe, friend, who wrote the chapter than rewrote it? Not good enough rewrote an rewrote, lets the ability to analyze your work. That's she's super critical for creating something the agri But this also you can, over analyze, needed the point where it just like you, fuckin hack, this diamond down till I got a grain of sand eel is now already because, when you get to the flat part of the current most people, they're, not patient enough to get to the flat part of the curve robots that's the biggest does also an issue with. When do you release a piece of material and put it like an album or in a sea day whatever, because when you get to a certain point, it's perfect.

But sometimes you're on the way there and you recorded then, and then you do it afterwards, like Falk, I've always tag lines. Now, it's better like there's a growth process too forming stand up and one of the act ex stand up. That a lot of people find is that there is only one way to get the jobs better. You have to do in front of an audience and they sort of like find their own life in front of a crowd. When I'm creating new shit, I will do a bunch of different versions of, and sometimes I just I just so. We try it back courts, mainly flip it up this way. Let me add something ridiculous to let me dig a hole in the beginning, its effect upon myself. Out of it. Let me take em down trick road, where I mean I've fake him now and then making the backdoor with other stuff. It is like IE. It only works on stay, it's, because you can only do so much of it in front of a no pan or computer grid. It's weird, form that it requires other people's points of view, and you could make an awesome. Song on your own and then go on its role last night and just

gonna, give some of their good a good deal, goods the back martyrdom and now you could Europe's I recognise that as a callback. Yes, yes, it is. We are now in a scientist. Eliza though I think This is a fascinating subject, man, I know you're out of time, but thank you and it's cool. Just did someone looks at comedy like that. I think that really game. We before you this done. I like that thanks, that's great. Throughout the whole, people can buy it on Amazon com they can buy. Is it the other website here Coda com, humor code, dot, com, Peter Mcgraw about word as we discuss he's memoranda org, and this hurl saying what are you going to do with this and one can people expect to participate or China? he's: u get, email, sometimes people I got you need subjects I'll, be a subject I don't know. That's us. Everyone's is exists. Up, takes forever takes years. Ok, we'll get it to me. I will put it up online. Will tweeted, let everybody no. I regret

GO buys book. Folks, you know some shit. Maybe I can help you young comedians. Thank you, brother appreciate a man to repeat Mcgraw. Ladies and gentlemen, I write goodbye. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Ladies and gentlemen, thanks for tuna podcast, and thanks of course too, arse, bouncers, thanks to zip, recruiter, dot com. Please go to zip recruiter, Doc Ford, Slash Rogan to post jobs for fruit, zip, recruited, dot com for. Slash Rogan thanks! Also two blue apron die com, go and get some yummy Niels too, for free to males, by going to blue apron, Dotcom Ford, Slash, Rogan, that's blue apron, dot, com, Ford, Slash, Rogan and, of course, last, but not enough to say that democracy that dollar shave club is what I was talking about. Gotta dollar shape club dot com for its last week, and check it out, get somebody

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