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He is the founder and executive director of the Multi disciplinary association for Psychedelic studies, one of the most important groups in the world when it comes to getting out there science about psychedelic and and most importantly, the ultimate future goal of legalization and utilization of psychedelic trust, a really cool guy, very nice person and filled with knowledge, especially when it comes to this and has really earned the respect of each and every one who enjoys any sort of psychedelic experience, even something as mild as smoking. A joint we really oh, the sky, is what what is done is amazing. So please welcome Rick Dublin the job will gain. Experience is concentrated within other, had answered the little girl so the headphones is. The only way that you can hear exact would other

We're gonna hear when they listen to the park. Gas seeking colleague review it what's happening. If only I wear headphones than it fills weird like I'm interviewing yeah, seems kind of focus my attention just on the here and now yeah, I'm back my good ideas, yards Dublin from maps, that's for whatever reason an acronym. I always stumble with multi disciplinary association for psychedelic studies. Yes, yes, and actually I was just yesterday with and today with Ralph Messner, and I got the name from him in a way he wrote a book maps of consciousness, and I was needed a name for the organization that had a p and at first psychedelic right as well as looking around for words and had a p in it and maps, and I really liked what drafted and with TIM and robbed us and the rest and say I thought maps it helps. If Nuno explain territory. Yeah. Well, you guys are so important when it comes to the

dialogue of psychedelic because from it outside? This is how I always maps as always like all those are the actual really smart, do psychedelic that someone lacking fuckers out there in the world of dogs and unwanted president and talk to you about channeling, and I know he'll, learn so much going on that so crazy and then There was silence and they always people doing actual peer reviewed studies as actual signed s involved. There was real old data, and you guys were pursuing it the right way, and also all these guys are so important because it is now. People that that's one of the weird things about cycle You could tell people that you went out and drink whiskey until your feet went numb and shake your pants, and no one cares. But if you tell people that you got together with some friends and you took naturally occurring psychedelic drugging explored to consciousness in you, you so much happier now and you feel better about life. In your more optimistic

if you do that, you're some fuckin wacky hippy druggie. Some loser. Well, that's the perception, and so we ve got this coming out and we ve looked at other social. Change movements like gay marriage and gay rights, and it comes from people coming There are lots of smart people, I do say it Alex or now tat dead are emotionally wise and they just keep it quiet, So people don't really know who in society has had these influences and they don't have to keep it. Either you mean it's. It's jobs, think that their employees, for some reason would be better off if they didn't do certain drugs, certain jobs. I think that's crazy, the idea that they get control your body when you're not there is just crazy yeah. But if you look at the companies like Facebook, I can google and others tech companies they dont do dry tests.

The better they don't lose everybody out. They know that not Google plots s good Lord, oh my guide. Do it. The entire company would come back ability real straight laced. Republican trump supporting the innovation and second Alex than marijuana and look at things in different ways. People are getting to appreciate that. I think more, that culture is change and we're we're in these camps, you know we have these camps, the dews and adults. Do you take drugs, do not take drugs, and you know there's a lot of people that pride themselves on one or the other. Whether there Herbert or Non perturbed this there's people they get weird about people that are doing things other than what they're doing in a like it. And that's why we need this kind of coming out. Yes, we are having these global psychedelic dinners deserved thirtieth anniversary. Actually, tomorrow is the thirtieth year that ice

started maps and identity sex and were asking people to their own homes or with their friends to invite people over and then have them tell stories of what psychedelic of men to them or what Hopes are for psychedelic researcher, your inviting everyone to do it like, on a like to make a night of it yeah and like a holiday in yes yeah during April during the month of April general, creating your own holiday. It's well there's people that have done this before there's with conversations about death with dinner and drugs which generate arrived, so they try to promote common nations in safe places, but where people feel comfortable to really be more honest and they can open up and so it's kind of modelling on that right and then it hopefully helps people to come out. Even more. I mean we even have twitter on its hashtag Second Alex, because so people can

I then and just say psychedelic matter to me, because I write I'm a more hopeful or I'm feeling Mother, generational drama can be addressed through natty credible, that that is one of the best thanks for it is empty. A May one of these best things as far as getting over traumatic experiences is an illegal drug yeah, and yet there is a carved out area that we ve been able. Make legal, which is the research area, and because science is the vehicle in our culture that we trust more our religion, then our religions and so felt like science and healing, where the ways into the culture that was freaked out, biased Alex in the sixties and now because of these,

Crises were in and also these tools that can be shown to be really helpful and that people have made life's out of them that it's not hurt them. It's help them, but you do not know it. So that's where we think the research is helping. People create a space where they talk about it. Why think its people are starting to understand the true nature of these things. Instead of the propaganda, and they're doing it from people like yourself being really honest about their experiences and people like yourself. Even more importantly, a lot of people like you that have actually gone out and pursued all the significant scientific data on psychic dogs and beneficial properties to it so that we can understand like we have this idea about a thing forget, it put all your ideologies side where the right wing or left wing. We have an idea about a thing: that's not correct, and this idea, the thing is that there is a certain group of cod

business adjusting substances that are for losers. Therefore, dumb people there for fools and don't you mess with those and everybody who does those is lazy and stinky and and you'll lock their legs there's, a lot of people that automatically lock into that pattern? Athinking, that's their go too, for it first, any drugs, it's not legal, but yet those same people often times will drink. They have no I'm doing then and ate them loud times, I'll, take pills to its, which is even more bananas yeah. There is this idea that exert marijuana hurt you I Q says, There has been a zoo prove it is that true, well, there was a study, the National Institutes of health. Just two weeks ago, I had a conference in Washington at that an age headquarters, the head of an age was there the head of night at the head of an. I am age, nationalist, mental health, about marijuana, Kanab nights

and it was a neuroscience review and they presented results that suggested that there was heavy marijuana smokers is started early in their lives over This was done in New Zealand. Overly twenty year period had some differences lower iqs, then their control groups, what you're talking about people that are smoking. Marijuana heavily one of things that I would say is if you're, smokin, marijuana heavily you're, not gonna, do a whole lot of thinking. Zone. The fuck out do a lot of zone and out and well up sober people might be a absorbing more information, you're, probably often whirled around all day long. That's not necessarily healthy gal, psychedelic drugs should be enhanced her, but they should be in replace of You shouldn't say in arms

gonna be high from the moment I wake up to the moment. I go to sleep every single day and this is how exists I'm just high all the time. Hi hi hi take a break yeah. I had that of sensitive as in merrily twenty, so smoking all the time to be high and I enjoyed a then I felt it got me into things about me really into physical work and labour really yeah, it's an exercise? Fantastic, I mean the opposite of the couch potatoes idea that people but pardon exercise just men rather New York marathon lodestone, that's amazing. Maize hired in the middle, and I walked into a for a party, Water networks jumped back in our that's a great story. Larry is largely due to people's one pot and where'd. You jitsu too big one.

Snow borders. Yes, no borders love it yes, numbers over, they say basketball, players, yeah That is one of the things about the NBA. It's like better protection, for we can seize due to vomit when it makes sense to, because I don't play basketball, but I play pool and its itself. One similarities share. Is that it's about touch and feel that touch and feel is why enhance likes allowed the best poplars, also smoke pot. And I was guy from blood spot That fact spot is a video of me doing and oppression of him and he's like a genius is laugh fuck, it I'll say, seems Earl Strickland his genius pool player and I might of the cage we enjoyed marijuana, but These guys like they say that when, when their smokin pot and playing you can like seething better. You have a better sense of where the balls gone. You have more sensitivity as far as how far roles

I used to play racquetball a lot and handball, and and sometimes I would play stoned and times when I was you, you did have that deeper sense of being in the moment, you're just one step instant more into the moment as and predicting and knowing and just but I could never tat. There is an unpredictability about it in house, so I could never really tell If I would play better or worse, has left us, that's probably why you please go because you'd, never sure, and you stayed on the edge. You know. That's it there's a thing: there's an ego dissolving quality of any these psychoactive substances, and I think that no dissolve in quality gives you more space to me around with all your other focuses, that's my theory about it, because I always felt like like with jujitsu there. You definitely feel better, agile jitsu in your

and I was trying to figure out why? What are you also feel like you somehow another you feel moved more vulnerable. Yet you do better. I hear more like like kind of freaked out. By any aggression or more trying to avoid any sort of conflict. That's what the driving studies of marijuana and drivers show that people know that slightly impaired and they take defensive measures. They drive slower and we ice were aware of the possibilities of an error as well yeah yeah and your correcting for it in your eyes more carefully. I think. That's the part that we have to be really be the experts on the risks, as well as the benefits yeah deaf, and that we cannot ignore that there are both sides of it for sure with edibles. Yeah all animals in driving settled down displeased settle down? Are you sure he shirts,

do the other. I think the idea we need to do is more. De performance tests rather than drug tests, and then that's really directly what your concern loud and then young people's behaviour to themselves, but you check their real performance. Not these indicators are predictors from my personal experience, there's a big difference between how you understand and operate under it as like someone has been smoking pot for like fifteen years verses. Someone has been smoking pot for like a week or a month or even a year like there's a difference in sometimes your ability to handle being really high. I give you your anxiety, takes hold of. You has undergone a god and you start Craig it out and you can drive. You can't do anything and then there's people that are just oh geez, like that action, Bronson Character,

action bronze came in here. This motherfucker smoke, like nine joints in the entire time. Consider you just kept smoking, I had it about, I sit back and watch and he just ever slowed down. He kept going in and kept lightner fog rub my disguise insane, but like a dude like that doc I can handle being. He understands how to be high, but for a zone who's not really that experienced man, especially in a car. It's not a good idea yet for sure it's. He ought to be again. If you can just focus on performance again, it takes a while to get used. Twenty. I think you did what my point was. The performance varies considerably depend upon. The individual so I don t even do like an across the board performance tests. Like say, we ve shown that this guy others, five joints can do be mixed. Flips is allow those being max? Do they do that shit drunk to unanimity? yeah they're gonna- be an individual yeah examined ass. Yet the part that I really liked about them exercise

employing rapport with marijuana is that sometimes It would be so easy to forget the score and then you realize you know really paying for the squire. It doesn't really matter, and you just said went to the moment and playing our joy at their jammed, joined their movements, and there is competition, but it's like about helping each other. Do your vast again and then the score there. That's the one downside of your high, trying to drag the score needed like someone there who sober looking to hire, someone hiring do clicker we can, We bother and Molly just given the participation trophies like they do with kids today, where everybody gets a travelling with no way about score display ski plan. One item this idea of science in the being rigorous about thing. Yes,

I mean I saw something that you did about the aliens and I thought you did. I could tv documentary here until you degrade about it, thankless as their yeah browse daily. Who was the man? Nobody wants a believing what nobody wants. More than their believe me fuck and want to believe, but when I'm honest, look at all the evidence is not their folks. There's nothing there, there's nothing there there. Like a few people, have seen some staff the some people it wrote affidavits other than that you got nothin some shaggy ass pictures I could be fuckin, anything can be They got shot out of a cannon. We facilities photos that their convinced her from another planet like a fuckin, serious man. It could be anything he knows. I think the vigour question is if it's true, then why'd you and that's what I've tried to look at and so for me. If it's, true that there is aliens from here somewhere else that are here. What would I do differently? In my life,

Do I really need to solve that mystery, which doesn't seem very compelling and doesn't seem likely, but the wooden, I think, as a way to be connected to something broader. It's like us Virgil urging, I think it's it's like a secular Jesus yeah, that's really think it. As I don't think, I'm the only one is not like him thinks is my theory. I think other people deftly thought this up that there is some sort of a connection between people that dont want to believe in religion and don't want to believe eve in any sort of age, ideologies, but they desperately want some superior, and so they reach out to the skies and some of em get fixated on. The idea of, maybe even they have been personally visited because it makes more significant gives life a bit more meaning. You know you chose and were testing you were trying. You are convenient, We always why you dreaming, but trust me

it's really happening you're, not just sleeping in dreamy, something crazy. No, you are actually on a spaceship, and so you get these people that occur delusional and when you look the sheer raw numbers of people in this country. And then you look at the: u have fostered stories and go. How may these people could be delusional? Could it be all of em? Could it be? Some of them could be most What was the real number- and that was the the cold hard thing that we got you on, that site, five show because it doesn't it. Count the possibility of deadly not of extraterrestrial life and definitely not of people. In visited it's entirely possible that extraterrestrial life has visited earth, observe dust and there a unique, unique more where someone was there and witnessed it and maybe even was in contact with them, and then they took off when they were gone and they never returned again. That is entirely possible because that's entirely what we would do, if we could just from planet to planet as dumb as we are now if we could just go from plants a plan

and do studies fuck you would do it and if we found intelligent life form that was like a more primitive than us like K, people like some Thousand one went with them the monolith. If we found some like that, you don't think we'd go, say hi course he would say I would they say hi that we get back off and I'm fucking sleek machine, often skies. We do exactly what we think they would do. Well, you could make the case that we already know by looking at these tribes in the Amazon than are as if living here, men without much contact. And we try more and more now, just to let him alone but buddy. I would you go there. There were Nike is yet others. The deuce Fuckin cobia variety shirts on public Mickey Mouse Hats, it's weird. You see these people a jungle, they have all those western clothing like wild, so weird, but yet there live. Like an indigenous tribe here, there's a very There are still pretty uncontacted, primitive and

I should get a parody ceremony at one time with some native american church chairman to how many people say that and about that, but this was a bunch of you can say that that they wanted to see what a friend of mine who was helping them with their sheep. Let's using does it seem to help him get stronger and it was empty, a may, and so some well it when when they would go off and do Mr Prodi ceremonies, or else he would tend to their animals- Ray the other sheep accessing known anonymous. Now, I'm sorry They did you understand when using the ok. I skipped registering to file We might have gone too deep for this absurd that they re a friend of mine was living out with the Navajo two categories head straight up and he would help take care of animals when they this male female shamans? Both would go off to do pay? Eighty six

our state out there for about a year and a kind of put himself together, and they said what helped you and we're Anderson what your medicine is and his head was empty a may and they said what we'd be interested in trying to experience empty may. So I was invited out there and we ended up doing this ceremony in Navajo they and they only spoke Navajo. They didn't speak English, at all, and there was this like in the western movies. There is someone try a trail of dust coming in some came on horseback to be our translator and there, too they are seventeen year old, niece holy shit and she came

to mediate during this empty. My experience and it became clear that this was really for her. Not so much for them for fur, for them to show their centre whose torn between the different cultures that that something about our culture we wanted what they had her was, We saw and respected it and the and a lot happened in the it was wonderful and all different ways and there's some important healings. But in the morning when we were going, this young woman was going to get back on her for and she had seventeen magazine wow and was reading at that's right, short figuring out that in or even out in the reservation in these protected cultures that, at that

Globalization of ideas and internet and five gas and people are being exposed, ideas, they wouldn't have normally suppose you, even in China, in their own, do so much this kind of sensor, stuff there's an explosion of thinking and ideas. Guy right now, it's it's a very strange strange time come to that. Many people are getting unsettled because things they had thought were true and rich in whom are their frameworks are different in other places and how many people speak Navajo exclusively so bunch, that's insane, I didn't even know that existed. I didn't know that inside of this kind, yes, there were in town, cultures of people speak in the original native language, wow No, that existed well, it's probably very thin at these upper generations, because your younger ones, Sir,

arguably the best sounding vote, their language is like the cool sounding language? Ever get that danger. You know there's like a sound to it like there's something to their accent. There stir. I guess it's like we're programme to think of native Americans dislike spiritual inauthentic. You now there's like this. The south, two. It like do, member that scene with Clint Eastwood was the La Josie, Wales, where he that indian chief and they got together- and these are my words of life and also my words of death- remember that its Jimmie Dale, I'm talking about. Do you gotta, find, is so powerful signal my favorite moments in a movie I mean those clinics movies, we're all ridiculous right like we stopped and look at it there overtake us, but there was something to that genre that spaghetti western genre, because it wasn't just as it was, there were cool action movies, but it was cool. Action movies that were,

in some ways reminding you of how people lived just hundred years ago, because These were all in the nineteen Sixtys and Seventys and shit right. That's when they did these fuckin movies, visit. Nineteen seventys in eighteen, seventy there were riding fuck endorses everywhere, mean literally, is a hundred years old. You now eighteen eighty five, the abolish slavery, or are we talking about a hundred years and this cowboy western? shit was going on and for us it is almost like Harkin's to a time right before we fucked up the country right, when the first barometers on wooden wheels rolled their platforms covered in tarp across the entire our continent to find a spot of babies, not that it was this perfect paradise forgotten, deftly, wasn't yeah, that's it

That's an interesting perspective that some people grab onto The native american people are completely apiece reach with each other. They deftly weren't their amazing. It's nothing take away from their cultures and made by native american culture. Its system amazing place that they existed on and for so long without any european influence. While the stuff has gone on the world there were living here, very, very different way in a lot of ways and intensely harmonious way with their environment, with with nature itself. I think we like look at that. We have like, with all these deep spiritual attachments to that, so I can play. It means it's a very. But they fought amongst each other. So much was there sport in a way that mean then, and they had that as killing it was was way of becoming. And as a predator

now that so deep in us, and that part of the question for me was second Alex in there is, is: is there a way to get that out of the human heart away? I think the way to get it out of the way that is getting out right now in its through information, I think that when evil Look at these native american tribes that were harmonious with each other right there, these very close knit bonds and close tribes and their very communal, but they didn't, no these other people there were exactly like down. There are miles away and they assume the worst and they whom the worst too and they looked at each other, and there was not enough communication, they couldn't, they could interact with each other instantaneously. They couldn't get understand each other, like we ve talked about this in the spot cast before, but if it wasn't until like that, a hundred years, years ago, where a boat showing up didn't mean Irene if you were in life than eighteen, hundreds and a strange boat pulled up on shore, your fox veil, right

This is a terrible problem. These are monsters with swords and going to jump off. They shoot arrows at us that was real, the comment of you had a boat that shit, Up a giant boat and a bunch of people got off your fuck man, you just get invaded now that me tourists, and you want to dollars and people of translators on their phones. They could speak to each other that people who speak different languages- I mean as this is an amazing time, miss amazingly strange. But we're experiencing each other on a much more. And playing field than ever in the past, and I think that's how we can as with so many of us here, and I think if we can see that really we're all more in common than we have different and weaken the irish differences rather than be fearful of them, and that what we have in common is this fundamental sense of connection of being this web of life that

They were not virtually were replaced similar order. Out of her way closed the people with different Skinner different cultures, to be able to see that that. Is who we really are and that acting from that and trying to work on cooperative solutions, and I think that that if we can have lots of people having these direct experiences so that they can be manipulated by Paul decisions? It spout grounding this kind of globalization but comfort with the sense of connection the than were able to find these bonds. They do exist and that they can be built by think one of the things that were seeing in this extreme over sensitivity that were experiencing right now. There's

This is like a really interesting time as far as like Pc culture, and what's what you can do, what you and do and cultural appropriation. I mean people go and after people for cook and mexican food that our Mexican has worked. During all our guide cultural appropriation. We're trying to take. I ll ask God of the Eye Alaska rituals and out of the jungles and turn it into a therapy drugs, but that's out of respect. It's not out of wood? That's that's. An interesting analogy is a different thing in the waterways but yeah yeah many cultures can evolve. You just have to be acknowledging where it comes from and try to bring, back as much as your taking yeah, but I was gonna say those that this over. Its activity is just it's. It's a side effect of this, spanned it understanding and in expand. Understanding. Now, all of the different thing,

that are injustices in the world are being highlighted in a way that no been highlighted before then people start going after them and then pushing the line further back, and then they start. Looking for other slights, that my be around. You know, other birds, my for your eye micro aggression, us anything. What is this might be withdrawn, locks, Justin Bieber, add fuel to the culture appropriation debate. First of all, like didn't gentlemen. I had to do Google dread locks, that's what I did and I found out that fuckin ancient Greeks were like the oldest people that war grand threat locks. They they believe, might have come from the ancient Greeks. Also like lots of other cultures, work dread locks, vikings, war, dread locks, is it's it's. It's a cross, the border with hair folks, okay, this is not black thing, not only that! That's not what culture appropriation is too, that's just style what culture appropriation is

save. These native Americans had a specific style of clothing that you, if you weren't, you are a shaman and you are safe, grid person or you had a head dress that you wore during very intense spiritual ceremonies in some interest are aware in that for fun, someone thought it was cool to weather, for viable, then it becomes offensive and that's cultural appropriation, because you this these people have this rich Will this very important sacred ritual in this one part of that ritual? You are defacing your mocking it openly in its offensive to them. It hurts them and even thats argue Wow, that's culture, probation, and I agree that there, I think, of something something sacred like a head dress or something they specifically where and then you walk around and where it this is kind of a dick move right. If you have to earn that looks like someone yeah yeah, it's like being a fig black or of, a fake phd or pretend.

That you went to Vietnam and you didn't fizzle out of those people out there right. There are equally offensive, but that's cultural approach creation. Is not a white guy we're in dread logs? It's not! Ok! That's a kid who likes to, whereas hair like that. Gives a fuck, and the only reason why you give a fuck is because You have run out of things that are really important to care about your life, because if you cared about really Orton Shit, you would concentrate on that. A massive distraction, if a white kid with dread locks is going, you're gonna go out of your way to fight the anger in a white with dread locks? All that says means. You need more interests. That's for sure. You need me, are things that are interesting, that's called work avoidance, you just focusing as things that the work avoidance right, you're right, you're right? That is a great way of approaching its exact. What it is people do that

While there is a classic leadership at the Kennedy School they said was taught by the only psychiatrist on the faculty run high fits, and there was a big concept. Was that as a leader in this just so much work avoidance being done ways and how do you I'll people focus on the issues that are too in them apart or that there are avoiding, but would be better if they try to work on it, and you know that word work is weird because work avoidance doesn't just mean like actual work like workin on your job. It could be working on yourself. You know it could mean, like there's a lot of people to get involved in a black he behaviour because they also are addicted to cigarettes, and maybe they drink too much. So they start getting addicted to wacky. Behaviors, not just as a side effect of the drugs, but also to distract them from with the work they create. Dramas ready, battleship an and all almost like to disgust too

drown out the nagging poking of all this shit. You actually need to get done, say just fuck and thank you life again in this way. Take your life again that, where my favorite approach to work, avoidances, doing lots and lots of other, where other than, what's the most important thing, really do you put off everything except like what you really need to do? I can't Of doing that now, then, that's that's raises no weird. You framework display little tricks on you, yeah. I think it's this anxiety a bit about this is a big challenge and you dont know until you start out, turn out and lots at stake and in its it's a matter what you tolerate from yourself too, and you did say, that's a weird line in the sand that you got a kind of learn to draw. If you want to actually get things done, you got to say, okay

now from. You know: seven p, dot M to nine p dot m. I do this this. What I'm going to do or sit down we going to work, and you be the boss of yourself, sit down and stare at that computer screen or you stare at the notebook any do the writing that you are really put trying to put off this hard for people to do, though, is a lot of times. Your brain is very wishy washy. We save our choice, Is we save our ability to open up our websites and just start? Go what's going on and dig Dogtown today, while it's crazy and the next thing you know it's forty five minutes after we're supposed to start, I got caught the tyranny of the empty page, so but so nothing I hope that a weird thing to be terrified of what really put me It was one professor, when I was working on my dissertation at the

many school at Harvard, and- and I just have this idea that you had to have it so good to be worthy and what I was doing it just out. Could you are? It doesn't start that way? So I add three professors what I needed a fourth on my committee and he was the academic genius for if it were a, I said to him, you don't! Should I because you're so busy? Should I just work through with the other professors and then just give it to you in the final phase just reader read over and he said no give it to me in the junk phase. Is that's? What does your comments are the most important, but what it was that he acknowledged that there was a junk phase and that help me feel like ok can start on produce heat chatting fight it.

You know you just keep trying to refine at her fight it out. It so important a mean our should fear as this little piece of paper that is gloomy or taped to his laptop, and it says the first graft. First draft of everything is shit as Ernest Hemingway, it's like any right under any to screen that such a good point, we have to go up thanks, writings, weird and whenever I read something like ponderous, and just did that labored good did this. You read this again to get to read it after you write it yet a riot? Yet a red? Didn't you gonna, rewrite it and that's where for me getting stone and editing stuff that I've written it's hard, sometimes and right when I'm stone, but its very it's early and sometimes will be like you know the half hour for paragraph herself rise on something and, above all, the dish words. Amazin, was no use to write with two right, where

do you have any particular software derive worthy. Have nothing just Microsoft, word dear, hurrah? Try right room, you know right room is no right. MRS Programme where the entire screen goes. Black now show too higher screen goes black and all you get disease, mean letters and he can't access it. Browser you shit. This is what it looks like when I write. Oh its green letters there? You can see it up on the big screen as well, so its green ladders, black background, and so when I write like that, man adds. I feel like citizens owns me in this. I can't do anything else. I can fuck off. I can't you know: I'd shut the wifi off and ram. That's for me. The best way the best way to get into it

yeah for me, it usually takes being like midnight or something like that. If you ever seen scrivener, you know what scrivener is pretty cool too. It's something I've been using for years. It's a program that you can set it up. I can you set up a bunch of different views, but the one I liked it looks like a cork board, so you have like index car and you can write an index cards, see them up there with that, and there are others index cards or expandable. So each one, Those index cards can be An essay and you click on each one of them, and then you get two notes and you can you can open them up and read the full extent of aid. I lied things and make notes on the highlights its really cool programme. I, like it alot, it's really cool too, because I like that, I like port boards and I ll- I use them in real life and dumb Alex.

Learn that from my watching sitcom writers. Do you have it where you ve got them like the different columns are different kinds of tasks, and then you have prioritized so you can kind of in one glance look at other know: you'd have to explore that only use it for notes, but I'm sure I'm sure it's pretty flexible. But I think it's mostly who who started using, I think it was a screen writing tool or initially, I think it was. But a lot. He will use it because it sister it's. It's really cool love you. What kind of stuff are you writing? Some, mostly just bullshit, just my thoughts on things than extracts stand up out of it. You know I just our right, like long form things I keep saying, I'm gonna get back to writing a blog, but I just never never have the the real ich to adjust to the eye. Like I like it and link these half. Process, things that then become bits in almost like users like a farm

Yes, like I used, are treated like right. A job is to try to really beginning punchline set up, but then I realized like the best way, for me, at least with my styles, to write a bunch of shit and then find out what's funny about it. You know is tat, things her for you, like no sir blog site, I smell, sometimes as yet sometimes it's cool I like tweet like texting. Tweeting rally, because you only get one hundred and forty text characters does one hundred and forty characters. I think that's good cuz it it makes you economise and it makes you edit and then you may see it makes you better oak rider and a lot of ways like the actual, like the fit figure out, though, the slams and the punches in a joke. I think you can get to them better when you learn has saved funny shit. Twitter, because you have a hundred forty characters that small amount of text in this little box, and you got to figure out a way to get your point across and hopefully be funny too

You know, sometimes exists stupid tax to me like seminal, say some really stupid just so silly, and I can't stop laugh and, like I think it's interesting like out tweets, have like a time where they work too. You know like there's, something could have just happened, the news and then some will have The perfectly time ridiculous tweet, unlike in that moment like that dude like cracked up the whole party, the world. You know where that woman or whatever the hell said it is a lot of people that, like Jenny, Johnson, who was in here. She's become famous and working comic from tweets just from being funny on Twitter. You know it's amazing yeah, it's crazy, I haven't really is dead, Will you guys use maps he's we have tremendous niyazov extra years really on the ball, to come here. Social, media and and yeah getting people engaged in retreat,

you're standing out, embrace Montgomery is in charge of that. He does great. We have such a virus. I pray seem yes bright, now. What do you guys are amazing? Is it's like I said it so important to balance out people I meet you I found our people at men, whereas in this stage of the weather considering our major reality check of our thirty years of existence and let's submitting their data. From M Dna, assisted psychotherapy for PTSD. These face. Do studies that we ve been working on for last fifteen years and submitting that two first off to our FDA consultants and then to FDA about going to the next step about going from exploratory studies to studies that if they work, then you get approval as a prescription medicines as a prescription treatment, so we're bringing all of these

data points that we ve gotten roughly just in this bunch of studies around half a million dollars studies over a hundred and five people and what were able to tell it is a story about risk and a story about benefit for postmen, stresses order from any cause with empty may. Since I got there be as computer, to the placebo, and also from the literature and working with people who have failed and other medications. It's weird subjective, subject isn't like how people feel. How do you feel about? You know your life, because it's it's assisted psychotherapy like how much of an impact yeah specifically canoe, attributing the drug right. The test will actually deterred

that, because one group of people will get the therapy with a placebo right. I mean this is our thinking of her face three, and this is how some other studies we did with face too. So, I think, being rigorous and skeptical is really important super important. So the first point is: if you can do this with the therapy without the drug, then why do you need the drug, but it there's somebody variables when it comes to therapies. Well, right. The relationship between therapist in the patient, either so many variables and ranges of individual responses. Others, these massive table, statistical tables for sample size calculations that help you figure out on the basis of always assumptions how many people you need in this study right to get statistically significant results and how many do need

well we're still working through the different assumptions. Hosanna Lillian was gonna my eyes for that matter. Well, just go the glass, though I know that sucralose, there's gotta, be some billionaire character out their smart Mozilla, Richard prancing, Rio Grande sister still not have dna than we got a party there are of support that we're we're getting that give makes me very hopeful our ability to raise the money for phase three. We think it's gonna cost around twenty four or five million dollars while and we have about half of it already These are in hand, are committed. Serious shit, yeah. Well, the consequences, if it works, is that then we can start setting up. Psychedelic psychotherapy clinics for India May for media II, we start negotiating the Vienna Department of Defense, with their hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars

Enormous last year is about six billion dollars that they ve spent in disability. Payments for about six hundred thousand veterans, literary disabled to some degree, with PTSD just for pity. Ass, just for video d run six billion dollars every year, wise just in civility payments from that's what the human suffering to the money. All my has the it's hard when people are traumatized I would have never guess who that I six billion dollars just for PTSD our thought. Just for disability payments. That's that's not cost cutting other thing. That's a lie and what were able what we ve been? not to show what we say in this group of a hundred and five people is that in this respect, Tuesday from any cause notches war, but child essentially,

use raper, workplace accidents, trauma of any kind, that substantial percentage of these people and have significant improvement and how that's Valuator is fortunately for us, there is the independent raider administered scale for not for symptoms of PTSD. It is called the capsules clinician administered, PTSD scale. It's the gold standard developed by the vizier used by the FDA, to approve zeal, often packs offer PTSD and it's just been revised from caps for two caps. Five sets a work in progress over decades and so that this is the objective scale and people do have to tell their story to an independent raider

the way that the independent rating system is gonna be done is gonna, be a whole pool of them that are calibrated with each other. Inter interpreter reliability and they know how to administer this and their randomly assigned to what we think will be about two hundred and thirty people for one phase, three study: that's probably what we're gonna be proposing and we need to have those studies to large scale. Phase three studies and what we're going to have is these raiders will be randomly assigned to one of the subjects, and they won't necessarily know. Is this? The one year follow up the two month. Follow up that? Really, the primary outcome measure or the baseline, so the independent raiders, are really important because for skeptical people in science the double blind is a key. Element. How you do an experiment, you shouldn't know the two dishes. She shouldn't know, which is

experimental one in which isn't because your biases might make. You suddenly see what you want to see right and it's very hard not to do that of human tenancy. So the idea has been these placebo, controlled double wine studies, but it's good in theory, but with a psychedelic drug people. Tell if they ve got a placebo, that does nothing or a secular drug. It's a fundamental problem of this research and that's why these independent readers are even more important for people to have confidence in the results. And what we ve tried is a series of studies giving low dose empty a may and comparing ETA Medium and full dose, and so The idea we thought was that if people are confused about which dose they're getting but then we can show it does response relationship them. That's the double blind! That's the solution to the double bind problem.

Is that everybody knows you're getting embryo. May but they don't know what those they're getting, and so you have to show the people who get the higher dose do better than the people look at the lower dose and the people. Patients may not know therapists could be confused that that's the idea. That's that's what we're heading four and that's where we ve spent last, ten years or so, researching with different low doses of empty May, twenty five milligrams, thirty milligrams, forty milligrams, Seventy five milligrams, a hundred and one twenty five, and we will always have this possibility of half the initial doze administered one and a half to two and a half hours later, to prolong the experience and make an eight hour therapy session soon people are getting this ecstasy they're, getting it or empty a major getting it in a clinical setting, yeah they're getting at

clinical said how often is three times three to five weeks apart in case the lives, and there are three and a half months therapy process of weekly psychotherapy. So the emphasis is on the psychotherapy, the preparation, the therapeutic alliance and then, after three weeks there the initial empty May session and it takes place in a special treatment centre. Dream in Rome, where there's a male female co therapists team with the person the person the patients having their blood pressure, monitored there having their temperature, monitored there being videotape. The whole thing. There's the attacks on the therapies as well, we're trying to understand about the method and the experiment this portion of it. The session is about eight hours treasonous, whose auditing all this footage we're with lower.

It up. Were we not worm we're not having somebody out at all events? We have the therapists no, which are the decisive moment psychopaths, are you two were developing. This is that yeah actually so in order to train therapists. The best way to train therapist show here's videotapes of actual Patients under emptier may- and this is how there is poetry- it's it's PO, its symbolic poetry, people talk in terms of imagery his half the time. Their eyes were closed, listening to music, having just their own private, experienced the other half in time and more or less. There are communicating with the therapists and ended it varies and there's no particular order of things. So it's basically- and this is what I felt with the native Americans, with the when we did empty May, with the inability circle that they had. These elaborate rituals that you know

went through the whole night that were beautiful and filled with these rich symbols, but then they went so they did some of their opening prayers and they want to know what we're gonna do and that we didn't have anything like what we just sit around and see what he says is kind of a more free form. It felt that we had like a poverty of ritual, but also freedom to to explore like that men. That's what we tried provide in this empty may experience that people have

Their unconscious is the guide and we're not the guide, we're not steering them anywhere. There's all these techniques. We know we're not we're responding to this emergence of material. That's been catalyzed by the relationship, the setting and then the drug and were supporting this emergence and different people will sometimes go to the trauma first or not. Talk about till the fifth hour or they'll go to child experiences. Supportive to build strength or Adele, but often it's in the symbolic language and dare to tell themselves a story while M that story. Henry order. The neural network in the rain and de emphasise activity in certain fear centres of the Meda and can change. Our memories are stored. We're just said M Dna, Siroc Valerie, city where I wanted

scientists and anxieties. Gonna start some studies when animals, mice, rats and leisure, which and trying to look at fear, extinction and memory consolidation and how empty May effects that Well, yes, we were starting to get. I fear extinction through put giving someone, I'm dear made least lessons anxiety here. So it means that When you have memory, you react with fear all right. That's and this this fear has never fully been processed. It's always like it's about happening. It's it's not been fully process because it's been so scared. Where more emotionally ridge, so with the embryo, may you can help people through this way of reducing the

your response, their activity in Amigos reduced while and so people can have the content without the fearful emotion, so as some sort of a bridge or a blocker. Yes here, but about a change in the structure of the memory that person because or from the yes. It changes how them every time you have a memory. You have to consolidate from different words you ran, then you re consolidate the memory yeah. That's why do people have weird false memories? Right? Yes, they would swear were real. Yeah your memories changeover at high, but it's a memory of a memory that your retelling, it's almost like your like. If someone you know that had a story and they something they told you and then you tell your friends about that story that how, hey. I know Bob Story, let me tell you Bob Store, but you don't really above story. You know it from him. With our there when it happened, and I think that some what happens with least my memories as they get.

Older and all their MIKE. What is this is a memory of a memory that I had you have to double check. Yeah alive? Then? What happens is that people's memory for the trauma passion it gets better. So you came back with them dna. You can somehow another change. That memory is no, no, that's the beauty part of it. Do you change your reaction to them right, but what that is to you like that? One feeling town yet so because these memories were so scary, they ve been suppressed but but not successfully, they're, not fully integrated. Still activating Few reactions are frequently, and so when you can feel peaceful and then bring up the memories and then because you're feeling peaceful people

remember even better. You know you guys should really do. If you really want approved effect, a sea of effectiveness of empty May, you should go to world star hip, hop dot, com, find all those few other got up and give them ecstasy and see if that helps so many people they planted in their head and thrown off a fuckin building. Where we have designed the project? Is that for world Stereo pop doc it's her electronic dance, music, festivals and burning man dies deftly different late effort, but I mean the idea of being able the better process. Trauma is universally peeling. I think all of us. Bad elements in our life that probably we're come and you you know. You probably have some character because of those moments, but it would be nice if you had a full handle on how it makes you feel yeah. And that's where this memory enhancement comes in handy because then you can.

Really learn from what happened? Can I ask you how you chose M dna out of all the different psychoactive substances? Yes, I felt that India may had a chance of being welcomed into the culture as the first of the different psychedelic acts, because it has that fear reducing its is not so psychedelic. It's not classics Reilly yeah it doesn't make. You feel like you're, losing control right. It makes it so that you, feel: a subtle shift of openness to self acceptance as self love, and this just self acceptance fingers like the core of it and your muscles relax people can stretch couple inches more, really well, more and more limber on India may know. Can it yeah

Have you ever done it with athletes? I don't know, we should do with athletes like people that are already really flax boy, maybe Jack Austria, and that's the other. People have done martial arts people yeah, you can do. I think, that's further. The muscles relax in that part of your attention right is or its tense because of arts EU rain and so that the work in which you can then have this for memory when you're feeling peaceful and you're looking at it as if it's happened in the past, which it did so you finally about this perspective on it with this peace makes it so that Europe you're, not saying it is happening right now, as you realize is not happening right now. It happened, then it and so your creating this longer different than a memory, storage of something that was clearly in the past and its connect

now to this reflective, peaceful tone. So when the memory is re consolidated restored the next time you call it you get the incident, but you get the emotional tone of this peacefulness and that its in the past, and so you can do work within a period of minute, sometimes or hours of seeing a shift and looking at something differently and processed. Seeing these dramatic memories, it is rare, but one person was in our study and he dropped out after just one session. I got this is like for part of but he got twenty, may see, as his name was one of the vat part of what I got was that he had been telling himself videos. He was on opiates for pain for injuries, but that he was staring you realize who is really more of a escapism and that he didn't need them.

And you didn't, need drugs and even need MGM Ailer. He didn't need any more in depth, but he needed in kudos yeah and we asked them later if it if he would at least be of our follow up, evaluations right, and he said yes to, that was nice room, and so he didn't have a wooden qualify for PTSD at the two month then one again closer to like the one year, which is our last follow up. He started saying: well, I'm still feeling pretty ok, but I think I could learn more from empty may. Maybe can I have now some more of these sessions and we said well, it's a rigid protocol. It you ve, dropped out, but less just wait and see if you even with qualified to be in the study of you and I

PTSD, so we did the twelve month follow up and he didn't have it. Even if we involve I'd be we still want to use my Sophia because there's other the thing I learned how good it feels that we are just trying to party. A party under the auspices of scientific studies and in order to be the most rigorous too there's a way to look at studies. One is called per protocol everybody. That finishes the study and meets the criteria and the other is called intent to treat. So that means array the coms you gotta, look at their data even they drop out or they lied to get. The study or they would have called I'd or whatever it is. Once you have enrolled somebody, that's the more conserve you just have to include everybody. You can't just be picking the people that fulfil year treatment plan right, so this guy was a power that we couldn't Norma

count it, but now that we're doing the most conservative intend to treat analysis. We can include the drop out so actually tony scores of massive reduction in PTSD symptoms, after just one sash and counts in our data, while because he was so and had the first session, this solely very abilities happiness being such a crazy sore unqualifiable thing right, that's what nobody wants. I would you want some happiness, and one of things at Em Dna does seem to provide a lot of people is relief from tension which a lot of ways equals happiness and if you if you never universally, if you had to say what is the one thing that people get from a drug called ecstasy, it's you feel great, rightly feel really. If you feel comfort bore insecurities melt. They just dissolve they don't I ve known, exist anymore, and you can approach people in this really weird open way. Will you not constant

ready to judo, whatever kind of bad shit they're sending your way like so many people in the community. They always have some sort of a wall up or some sort of a barrier between there your feelings and what their projecting, so that they can sort of figure out how to navigate this conversation with the least amount of social damage. You know I mean that's like this is like Zeb enters some styles of communication like this way of going through it with having the least amount of of conflict in your life, but if everybody was annexed to see that would be the vibe visit a survive. That you get an owner, Saint everybody's, do it! What I'm saying is a vibe. Did you get when you communicating I access? It makes it almost impossible to have arguments. People gets weird, you communicate with people in this, open way that you will never even attempt if you weren't both on em dna,

Yet we actually have a study starting in the next month or so. We're we're gonna, give who people empty May at the same time to a couple of While these are already people that are related Africa. One of them has PTSD and one of them. It affects the relationship but doesn't have PTSD and so This was a major major breakthrough, because The first study with second Alex was in the modern era, was ninety ninety, with extra Osman, with a dm t study and ever since then now for the past twenty, six years, it's only been one person getting empty may also cyber nor lsd or anything at a time. So this is the first time we ve been able to work with two people at a time and give them empty a may, and its also, this It is in informal collaboration with the veterans Administration, National Centre for PTSD. It's a therapist that used to work

within the National centre, whose thou at writers and university in Toronto who develop this approach and who was introduced to us through the work of Richard Rockefeller, who was opening the doors for us with the National Centre for PTSD, and we met this woman, Candice Monson who's, the researcher and she's developed, which called cognitive, behavioral conjoint there and conjoint means couples, and so it's a cognitive, behavioral sheriff scripted, how you kind of about your trauma and exercises about it, but it's for couples, and so when they were thinking how to bland empty, a may with traditional non drug psychotherapy that are used by the vizier the couples, the European I thought would be the most logical because it helps you to have those kind of communications ear. The better listeners, you're, more empathic yeah. You can get over stuck arguments and the pvc really does affect the relationship and in a lot of weight

and there's the researchers have all these measures of the relationship with the style of communication between the people. We really care about the cap's the clinician administered PTSD scale, but it's gonna be tremendously exciting and we ve been able to get permission for the first time to give to people I'm DNA and will be able to monitor that but couples therapy, even though its from menace use of embryo may will never make it through the FDA, because you can only take diseases. You'll have to treat a disease is not for personal psychotherapy, which is not it things could be anxiety, disorder, PTSD or depression, we have to treat disease such a weird distinction. There's something wrong and you have a substance that makes that wrong better. Why That is something wrong, have to be something you look at an petri dish were only me as the drug WAR its army.

It's illegal. Otherwise it doesn't make any sense, its obvious, like there's a condition and a solution to that condition mean this. The fact that you are dying from feeling like shit about your marriage, doesn't mean, is not a problem. You know I mean that's so stupid if it will be. The best uses of empty. May I mean that's like making toothpaste illegal. Like you know the, unless you have like a serious dental disorder You really need to clean the holes again like some sort of a horrible route canal. It's about to happen, the idea that you can somehow another key people from doing. What they want to do that at the heart of it all right, right and- and I think that the this idea of again say it Alex because Hashtag psychedelic, because of coming out of the closet of people, saying that that this has been helpful, and this is so

good, and we should be able to do this, and I think the. Eventual use, we sort of backing, this use in couples, but is really about making empty major mess in perpetuity and is also about trying to understand. What's the dragon, what's the the contacts? So, while we had this context, I was describing of this non directive therapy of the unconscious being the guide. Other people like cognitive behavioral. They give you all these exercises to think about and how think about your trauma and right where and when it near triggers, are in a different kind of thought, exercises and so worsening, that empty amaze, like a general tool, and so were because its nonprofit drug development were trying to work with as many other therapists with as many other combinations of treatments that they want to use to explore if they want to blend M dna with it, and so have the sub

nine hundred and sixty grams of the world's some of the world's poor, SAM, don't tell me where it is made by Dave Nicholls, don't even give up the deuce name. They get ahold of passage of making our now. This is hardly had legal information, illegal, empty, a bizarre legal. What I'm saying nineteen eighty five I had a kilogram made, oh my god and robots texts. What is a two pounds of two points about two point, two pounds: Jesus Christ yeah googly, mostly young jamie- and this was your bags yeah medicinal chemistry at predict. Oh, my god, they got a better yield than they thought they got more than a year, but they did. They started off with it now and I highly paid dumb four thousand dollars for it. Did you guys Verdure rave. Why you're making it actually not this only raw ago, where's the rift

now that, as this was the others like the legal track and ourselves yet the yield was totally off now when there was the eye. So we have a nine hundred and sixty grams left already wires later Christ and it still the exact same thing we're using our studies? Third, one years later, it's the you know it's kept in. Room, temperature and without law. Without moisture, desists infuriating that has taken this long for people to recognise what other people have said for it. People said for a long time, and I understand the idea of having rigorous scientific testing but innocent. Point time. It should be. That should be enough, anecdotal evidence and lack of four may I mean how do people died from I welcome it as anybody? Yes, what are the rules yeah like what is the elder fifty year well Elder fifty is a measure where you give a bunch. Animals increasing amounts

and the amount were you kill, Hafela right, the elder, fifty of empty main humans. Don't don't actually even know that homer, but he has happened. People have they died format or they die. For I know people died from the region have died from hypothermia. Right so empty May affects year temperature controls, which is reason we measure temperature, although in therapy, but in a clinical setting lying down, there's no brown with temperature. At all and normally there wouldn't be either if there is adequate harm reduction and people were drinking, not just water but Lecter lights. And then I see people are always so sweaty is. I was gonna their sweat here, but the dance allowed to lay dead. It's the is there. Combination, so some people have. May I close to six p m

ass a fire glitter. I know an analogy about two faces: a bad one, to pace and teeth, but there is that there is some weirdness to this idea, that we need a substance like its classified, whether you know no, no matter whether it legal or illegal. It's gets classified and when you make something a drug and that drug can only be used when there's an ailment, then you lock, the whole possibility of performance enhancing substances like what we. In writing. We we dont disclosed across the board, performing its answer. Enhancing substances mean that six essentially coffee is, in its mandatory, mean coffee breaks are written in the union bills I mean, although like when they make a contract, they write in coffee breaks like we ve always had conflict breaks right, that's a break to take drugs. Narrative

to that end it used to be illegal at one point: yes, yes, where people gathered together in talk in the eyes of Revolution in England, incredible so ass, like many other things, so we have this one performance: enhancing drugs will ecstasies, probably a performance enhancing drugs as well, because it gets rid of some of the the bullshit. They ve got clogging up your thinking right and it allows you to think more freely right and you can it's it's it's the most inherently therapeutic all the psychedelic. So when you asked me, why did I choose emptier? May I think one part is it is the most inherently therapeutic people tend not to have their drips, that kind of bad trips who go? How is when they take him to a may in recreational setting and difficult emotions come up in there with friends that just want a party in they try to stuff the emotions down and so play, Slayer and re allowed, or that women We were soon and then they end up worse, so empty Megan may people worse off too well,

There are certain people that really should be allowed to choose gum and we should take them. Account to this. People that are gonna stop there tell every time they walk, and I don't think we should urge the world and it's nice Super important to recognise when you look at all these numbers statistics that there is a certain percentage of these people in this world that are helpless. You can't do anything about em There is no yes everything. If you look at the skiing look at the number of people who die running into trees, I'm ever here there is about thirty five or forty people to die skiing. Every year too, we lost sunny bono. You'd have to remind me to bring it up. Throw saw and that's not even counting people with avalanches, but but that's because there you be benefits and that's where again, this coming out, it's fun fun, but though, so is driving race car that's fund too. It is a lot of stuff, it's fun, but dangerous. Like a lot of dangers, Tivydale, but the amount of people that actually die from ecstasy, verse, skiing,

low barriers and very lonely baltic huskies, decent people, ski more taxes anymore. I think that a lot of what people think as ecstasy is examining empty amaze, really something else. So that's another his right around, I have of it like math with them arrowhead dot, org theirs, ecstasy, a pill testing programme that they have been conducting that we helped start years ago Look there's one licensed laboratory licence by the d in the United States that can take anonymous samples of drugs, oats you can get drugs tested, and so there has been this programme to get ecstasy bills tested, while over nature, nine hundred have already been tested and IRAN have em, don't even have empty May in Jesus Christ. So there's What are they mostly amphetamines, their amphetamines, zircon,

in tat being pills, the their cell animas access is sometimes they would dumb there there's task, it said Dan, safe cells and sometimes to fool the tests, which turns certain color. If there's empty a main, it there's been pills, it or one part empty. May nine parts caffeine, because there is the stimulant aspect in peace, stay up is its that's a terrible up, but through the risks of empty May, even in a large wreck. Regional setting? If, if it were opposed provision world those risks, would be very manageable, but there would be some people, probably rare situations somebody might die. We have there all the time with cars. Without all, I can say that it would never happen. It's like those freaks that are allergic shrimp right penicillin, people dive. How ya see, there's gonna be risk for everything. There's nothing that safe a hundred percent, even salt salt kills people die from salt overdoses. Every

right now: aspirin aspirin kills people some fat thousands level diary of. But the actual yeah. It's that's crazy. The number of people had fallen thereafter day forget about jobs, may gamala wherever and so one of these it my way, If said about me, when the summit nearer teenagers. When we had our teenagers were thinking of thumb coming to visit me at Boom Festival in Europe, which is one of these festivals, where they have the most harm reduction. And these are teenage boys and that what my wife said about me was that I wasn't really good at prevention, but I was good at rescue, and so that's for me. The prohibition versus public health in Only Prevention public provision, but if we can be good at acknowledging the risks but being prepared for them the same way that vessels have

medical tents and people have all sorts of physical problems you, but the problem. Is this not a strict prohibition on dangerous things? So I the president's, already been set of of freedom. That power and freedom. We would like to extend across the board. We wait. That's what we want. We don't will you can't tell me that I can go to bar and drink my fuckin lungs out and smoke cigarettes it's all day long and I can take pain pills, and I can do all these things, but I can't have a joint you can't. You can't tell me that doesn't make any sense. Did you see the court that was recently circulated on the internet by Ehrlichman about the origin the drug war. I did see that Bulgaria's repeated well what basically, that Nixon when they were, looking at the protests that were being conducted by the hippies against the war against a lot Nixon policies and the blacks who are arguing for civil rights that they knew they could not make it a elite.

To be black or illegal, to be a hippie meant that it could look at the drugs that those groups reusing and selectively, criminalize and prosecute them and use them to break up those communities. And the thing knew they were exaggerating the science and that the drug war was a political war against certain kind. Drug users who were considered to be a problem Nixon an arrogant, and this was omitted often said twenty years. And get them much attention and he's been dead. I think ten years now, but it just came out again in article and people are looking at what Ehrlichman said and its. Seems intuitively true intuitively tat which is unbelievable. How damaging and for how long I mean it's been going on since nineteen seventy so where were deep here here, but it is also cat triggered into a fear of the unconscious of fear. The drugs, not just this political perspective. The drugs themselves and the reasons why they were political, but also the blanket label of drugs becomes really problematic

As you have all these things lumped together, you ve got heroin in marijuana in the same categories of God came in that all these things are so different. Call them all drugs it it in its it's not a good implication. It doesn't make sense, is not a good distinction like there should be obvious. Classification We all know, like I say use you asked me about you, tell me about the to say, and I immediately thought amphetamine. So that's a category, and so we should describe them. I don't think describing things. Oh, you do. Drugs, This is a dumb would, of course I do what my stupid. They figured out how to do things that are way better than not having them right plenty of drugs that are excellent, like the idea that you gonna be completely drug free is dumb, a rains are drug factory death. I would you just don't do damaging drugs. Don't do terrible drugs, don't do math, don't do things really fuck you up, yeah, don't do the others. Probably

stuff you should avoid just cause, is not healthy for you, but the prom MS label and am all drug is depends on the dose. It depends on the context. One of the the FDA made their reputation in the early sixties and blocking solidified to be prescribed in Amerika from morning sickness for pregnant women could caused all these lid might babies and it was a sceptical woman who ended up winning that presents metal water. The only person from the FDA for blocking this drug to lead might use the appeal to me of the bad drug, but now it's used in the treatment of cancer and its roof medication, for what might is an approval, adequate medication. They just one those modifications. It only affects certain failure in certain blood vessels than I can. Useful in certain ways around here. So it is not that there is good and bad drugs is not that,

things are good or bad in themselves like another methamphetamine as a bad. You know that there are it is for that d overdo it. I've tried. It was like I went right at one time clean your house should have that kind of energetic. You know it wasn't that no similar to cocaine. It was the stimulant that can be really useful. Might my father? This was a shocking thing. Might my father's doktor pediatrician and years ago is retired now, but he well, after hours into doing psychedelic sent a dropped, This is what is focusing on. He shared with me that he and his medical friends did math

as they are under these ridiculous residencies. They had to work for these really long hours while and that in the fifties it was very common for residents. Medical dogs will also be the zoo, methamphetamine to an end, as it was a major tool used in the war and with the soldiers and it it's you know it doesn't have this brain it doesnt. Have this evolutionary feel in a way it is, how you doing you're doing but there's a way where psychedelic help you refine what you're doing so. Gives you energy because you know there's a mood to young, elevated, yeah yeah. There there's so empty amaze, mescaline dioxin methamphetamine. So there is

in a similar molecular change with other additions to it, which fundamentally change how it happens, what it does in the brain. So that's a part of maybe what triggers the euphoria as well as the dopamine release yeah. That is part so that that chemically at that the army in eighteen, fifty two and the chemical warfare people they were looking for mine control drugs, and so they did a study with animal toxicity studies. Looking for elderly fifties and others with a different drugs in a range one of them was empty.

And one was it was like math amphetamine to masculine in or that so empty amaze kind of like masculine and sensitive. Has that light, which is from pay eighty which, as this psychedelic ego, dissolving and reprogram things emerging and non verbal processing and emotional intensity that it has that from masculine? But it's not that eco dissolving

more your calmer, and that has the energy from methamphetamine, but not an jittery. I guess you can sit still you can meditate meditated are now some of them have learned from empty May or so silent, Noumenon meditate practice. So you can use these in any number of different ways, and so you kind of have this paradoxical combination of methamphetamine and masculine produced a molecule. It does something different but reminiscent and it is something that I believe that will be used in initially highly controlled. Therapeutic settings, for particular clinical indications and over time By over time I mean ten or twenty years there would be a

Development of psychedelic clinics like hospice centres, hospice centres spread all over american thirty years. The first, almost nineteen, seventy four two thousand and four. There is thirty, five hundred so a place to help people who are at the end of life, so these are psychedelic treatment centres to help people do ego, death, thirteen to die to their old selves or two to see more that these centres will be developed over America. I think over a process of once the drugs are approved and probably empty, may and suicide, and will both be approved around the same time, one another in a twenty twenty one is our current predictions and then we'll start elaborating these clinics, and then people will get more and more. Comfortable to it, so that Medical Association precedes legalization and that's where we ve with medical marijuana right that the culture gets comfortable through this process of

now research and use that they can try. So they see directly and they see distribution centres at aren't violent and people. A system- and they then are now now it's the latest polish, sixty percent of Americans in favour, Americans in favour of marijuana legalization highs, has ever been present credible yeah, so that I think that I think that we need people are under so much stress and if you look around at the world, the world is under so much stress and environment is under stress and the cultures are bumping up against each other, that we need to have all the tools available to manage stress, as it gets a tremendously crucial time when history, where we have these capabilities through our technology in Europe, for the impact planetary system went away. These psychedelic drugs are a kind of technologies, wilder technology to get us under

and our brains function yes, and theirs there's the sum confluence of coincidence of timing that the Albert Hoffman, who invented LSD, first off created and thirty eight and then accidentally ingested in forty three felt that the development of nuclear splitting of the Adam was occurring contemporaneously with the discovery of LSD and ended in his issue. There was this kind of outer tech. Ology and this inner technology and that lies said. The splitting of the item has changed everything except our motive thinking and hence we drift towards unparalleled catastrophe. What shall be required as substantially new mode of thinking and were half and recycle. I do wonder about theme the technology which many people think that if it comes from nature, it's really good. You know their if its plant medicine, but if it comes from a lab,

somehow suspect right, but I think that it comes from our mind where from nature labs so our knees nature these plants. They just extract the chemicals from these plants when you break it down to what the chemicals are. You can reproduce those in the lab. It's not a simple it's not natural, it's exactly. The same thing is natural right and it's all natural right It's all from something. That's on earth. Well, actually, because we're trying to see how are operating in a public debt? manner and fair trade, and all this I asked the company- that's making us our kilogram of robbing a new kilogram of empty may made out If you need more face a gang of it, we have nine and sixty grams, but it's it's not gnp. Medical is not acceptable for phase three research. Oh yeah, I would say that some I thought I was gonna, give it away the kids while we do we want to give it away to researchers of their researchers that are listening. We

from the United Kingdom researchers we search for. You too, would like to give it there, but they are mostly crop tax I'll fuck around my domain. Without lately, one is costing to have the medical grade. Is now arising as four hundred thousand. Of course, we need that we need a laugh. That's about our agreement. You gonna go back into the stuff land around that love. It's not that's where we're make in this transition, yes into the higher regulated areas, so It is just that the standards of procurement weren't strict, is that, yes, that that that the assembly just as pure as the what we're gonna get by the word out of use where procurement the word user there, it's the pedigree of all the ingredients, so there has to be a paper trail. For all the ingredients, and so you don't have a rotating. Are you sure, from a dealer will sort of?

One of the things that he didn't have all of the people around like a car. Apparently there is a proper part of the process of making him Dumay. Were you need aluminum, some aluminum Jesus Christ were thrown forks in there Some aluminum foil are used as in the process. That's bad! Well, because it's not like which women of oil and which batch and where did it come from. Jesus cried out his guy, through aluminum foil into your fuckin mixture, think what a junkie fuckin way to make things metal in? It seems so stupid, Oh sure, is a really may why it's cans do not end with a role

I knew more chemistry, I kind of explain what it did in the end, the process but aluminum that super com, common rather aluminum sector. We think of aluminum, is being frying pan, but that's not, but that's not the form it takes in the wild or car panels make about cars of aluminum now. Is it figured out her make like super lightweight, but very strong, aluminum, that's as strong as deal but lighter But luminous everywhere and dirt, like it's like when I most common metals, so they use this stuff how much they need like in say. A tiny amount. Dantes was all that much I was. Was it do I'll? I dont America cycle really say, giving it areas He found their way out of a food, important shit. Your tail I was just like. While this is appear emptier may create do it. I would again like to hold the fuck up the same through a fork in there sit down to tell me what are you doing You don't, why does it have to have aluminum foil, Whitley lent it

If the aim is said, is there some way we can take this empty May, which is just as peers, organ Gatt and turn it into medical grade? And they said There's no way you can really do that. You because you have to this is now preparing for prescription emptier may scientists to serve Take it from every initial ingredient has to be verified at the source, wait out documented and then you make it and then its medical read well or it more or less so not of this four hundred thousand were about. Seventy five thousand is just a valid ate all the methods that are being used ochre. Another fifty four thousand is three or stability studies. The show that the embryo make an last three years, even though we have empty May from nineteen eighty five till using this, that we have to build the purity studies on throughout the years. But it's about this particular batch of inaction. Are thirtieth anniversary celebrations celebration on April, seventeenth in Oakland at the desk,

trade centres is a blog for a party. This is applied for a part. I dare you to its having this method is where raising money to illegal drug deal, to guide assembly away. How do people find out about this very get there go to the maps, dot Org website and information right. I'm a homepage powerful, thank you and in its about helping people, though, also think about having dinners and their own soon with AIR France, so you gonna make a holiday did why not? man, Columbus's african holiday knees were widely believed to be a piece of shit. Yes, yes think gum well, no less enormous pursued his shit. Ok! Well, I think that once we get em, demands a medicine and then it becomes legal and then those vision was doing at any Non Columbus than we can turn Columbus day into embryo may day. Two great idea coming: look Columbus did start of something in motion, but Columbus as a person. If you, Google, import, whose terrible human being

girl. There is an account of one of the missionaries I believe, I was there on the island. I think, was a catholic missionary forget what religion, but anyway, this one religious person wrote this account of what Columbus and his soldiers it did to some native people, and it was just horrific, and you realize these were the people that everybody was worried about like we were talking about. A boat shows up in some monsters, get off that boat, and these are the people what they had done to these people. For I found out that some of them had gold and they just did a horrific shit very similar to what like happened on this coast here with the Incas. You know the Aztecs rather yeah. There's a story of Cabeza De Vaca Do you know that storing which stores of iron and as commissioner this is the story, a true story of people that found real gold spent,

conquistadores this. This is spent, into a movie. It should be made into a more major movie with recalled children. Are the sun children, the son of a the children. Where was, I think, that's what I think the EU should be called, I'm not sure if it was that you make up, your names worries like STAR wars, Bro like big foot and his body in space the story that out I've written that actually this. This is incredible. This is the hidden history of America. This is the first measure, son children of the sun is the script I've written. If I'm doing man you smoke too much part for the show that was a little bit much level who asked a little bit nazi. Both of us did a little bit right, yellow yeah, it's good for creative brainstorming. At answer the and the movie, the stew We were just movie that you can watch, though I think it's it might be: Cabezas Vodka, it's gotta

dwarf chairman that didn't exist in the real story and its. I think this has to be told true, because it's the hope of America, it's the hope. It's a story of several hundred conquistadores around fifteen twenty eight trying to link up with Cortez blown off course and a hurricane land in around Tampa Florida and of this bunch of hundreds of these countries, the doors, only four of them survive, oh and may eventually one of them is black. One of them is a more a slave, the rest, your conquistadores white and they become slaves. So they start out at the head of the empire, exploring and plundering and then eight get destroyed, or they become so

it is so they get captured and they get captured. Native Americans live in Florida yeah, so the native Americans live in Florida. The seminal tribe right is at them, I'm not sure which they they they end up running way and it takes eight years this whole process they go through that visit the charting. So this is the first meeting of the black white and red races in much of North America. And at one point, when their slaves to get some used from them, the India The native Americans say they want them to do some hearings. They think they're special there there is a black personal or by they came the they say? We're not healers. We don't. In when they say, if you don't do it, we're gonna not feed you and they tried to do a healing and it actually works. The version says there better. So what exists is the document there's there's a lot of historical documents, but the point

was the element that they documented and after I don't know what it was state, they do talk about, be wrote a script on it. Well, I don't know the exact first. This is a long time now decided that at some point I couldn't try to make the movie happen and also try to make em you may have let us decide for long, but it's the mint, the symbol I have set aside, but I haven't in thought about for a long time, but I think that the story is important for beleaguered Albert as Cabezas Vodka, they became healers and they went eventually all they didn't. People gave them all their stuff, they didn't want it. They just wanted to go to where the where they thought worker has one You been home on how they become healers, just the heel, this one guy that threaten the sad fact is under job. It seemed I was that ignores magic. That they now is that they were like they were pressed into service as healers, and some of them

They felt were particularly more talented than others at it and they ended up with basically that the whole groups of Indians with one tribe would take them to the next tribe. They had the allegiance of all of these Indians and they learn to live very humbly. They didn't take stuff for themselves. They cried The good survivors through amazing hardships and they saw their humanity with the Indians and they insert a conquered through love, drew them. Hearings and then they ended up getting to wear the west was too to wear Cortez I mean really can be stores were they. Finally, saw burned out. Villages and people are slaves and they were taken captured themselves an hour who has committed vodka, went and was taken as prisoner back, and he had to write this report to the king about what happened to the expedition and the black as to Benito, he stayed and he traveled up and explored alot of California and end up being killed by the natives, but

the story, Henry Miller, wrote a tremendous introduction to this story about the salvation of the westward expansion, the opportunity, but it showed is that through this respect, through what ever circumstances they got, lake through cooperation and non violence. They had the support they had and then, while the for that they didn't, the further data, yet ninety six that they killed the humblest yeah. In took them this nonviolence. Thing only worked out when it got done like four people. That's not a good strategy how to ninety six per se and effective like a terrible idea. Loud work, these four guys lived, become fuckin, wacky, carnival healers If you have ten paces, when I look at this story of this

and then he recommend a book on the soldier. Yeah there is there's the actual original document that commit Cabezas Doc, Eldar, Nunez, Cabezas, evocative, the marvelous adventures of Cabezas vodka. I think as the translation of it to both yeah. That's the guy. You can burns documentary on called the west. I believe is what I was look can burns, did some found him didn't can burns do something on those with the wild West was another different is that he did it on this guy. This can burn. It is us in it. But though it's a part of it s, a story. First appeared the can burn the West PBS documentary. The first dared. Ninety ninety six And this there's been an opera about there's, also a lot of people of Serb, looked at this story and taken a lot of hope from at that

even though it took a lot of death for these people to get to this attitude and and the Indians were, you know, keeping slaves and killing each other than you know, but they were able to have a different kind of that they got off the boat as those rampaging people, but they transfer humanists and humble, and actually, commissioner, I was able to go on a second expedition to South America, was able to talk his way into it and he did it explored more areas than other people did without killing any Indians and he discovered the egress who falls where the movie the mission was made, big waterfalls, so he he started demonstrated that he was a good ambassador between cultures and tried to still explore exploit, but but do it in a way of.

A little bit more collaboration. That's really interesting man. It's really interesting to think of cultures. Colliding like that. Some crazy people from Spain getting about getting washed out of their course and landing in Florida, climbing all trying to figure out what Hell's goin on getting attacked, attacking people being a war and then for due to make it through that and live conventional cools guardsmen to them. I had a native Americans aside its usual cool. When Adam kill you, they became traders for awhile before they kind of its trade de yeah trader. Yes, yes, traders and- and they could hear that they got very hearty and out about how they live, does that some of them, while the sister Nikko, ended up getting killed. He stayed in Mexico, you didn't want to go back to be a slave and then he went with the commission. Canaries up and of California, then got killed in California by native Americans here by native Mary

here so the other near magazine a better name. They do it's clumsy American saying native Americans, clumsy say Indian is even more clumsy ally. First nation. That's like good. The Canadians use, like that. First nations: that's that's there real claim right there, first nation Bottom line is as far as we know there first nation, but we don't you know. Well, we did a study in Canada, with First nations people who are suffering from addiction because their their cultures been under such attack. But it was peruvian third world peruvian shamans, bringing I'll Oscar to work with first nations people, who are addicted, with Doktor Gob Armada, western psychiatrist, s kind of that guy's amazing, He is mediating. This x accession run by an

And then we were able to support the team that did some outcome measures and suggested that that this third world first World First Nations people that the its cultural bumping into each other, all over now, more ever than before in the history of the world, probably cultural appropriations there. I think it's appropriation if, if you dont, have you steal from hand to be a native american hold your own pay. Eighty ceremony now you ve ever had and on and read, I think the the yellow platter. You know, imitation is the most sincere form after so many it's like you want people to adopt, if you think is good, but they dont have to adopt your dog. Where are your rituals? I mean, I see with our India. May we have our method and we have it. Everything is fine, YO taped, we even have its,

Lord, we have raiders that look at the therapies and scorned them on how much there are implying that weary with our method, but we want other, be both other methods to use it and x rays. Yeah works and other contacts native Americans have their own rules right when they have in their territories, they can that's why they can put casinos up in their eyes. Do they have rules as far as psychedelic drugs. They have their own rules. Well, They have goes on. Try my hands. I well for Sunday have authority, in tribal, but a lot work in the military or do stuff with fair garments, so they have the religious freedom to practise the native american church. You, a Supreme court, upheld Emma's Congress that taken but the federal government actually tried to limited so that, if you, you have twenty five an indian blood to be part of the native american church in order to participate in the pantry rituals. This?

dates don't have that kind of racial requirement, but to try to prevent the spread of religion from the native Americans to wider groups of hippies and others that, like parity, you know they try to make a racial. The federal government does have this racial limit, but is largely ignored and its ignored by the states. That's Why? Why do to try to be Rastafarians? Member that that's where white dirty stinky people with dread locks came from ass, I was reignited thereof. Fans Bob, Marley, right that's what they knew. A dude whose a pot dealer and each claimed Rostov. I support my religion, man. It was like grocers right right in those cases they ve lost in court. Are they

they didn't lose. The wood is assented to die. May what is the church? Yet? How do I listened to the sun to die? Mate went up to the ninth circuit and go to the Supreme Court, but the union divisional. I just came frogs out of aid this morning and that's where the lead church, the now vegetal was located in Santa FE and it was Jeffrey Rossman from the eighty jewish Bravo family from sea grooms fortune from smuggling alcohol during prohibition and then building this massive business as one grandkids. He ended up becoming appreciative of Alaska and so he heard the best lawyers and worked on this case that they want

unanimous Supreme Court case confirming the who now to vegetal the union other plants. It is two different plans, routes and vines and and leaves- and you put it together since the union now d vegetal war and they have legal protection in the United States. On the other hand, it's you know it's a church. I went to it and I was hearing I really inch. I went to a twice and the second time was like here at the myth of our church, the myth of the origin, myth and part of it was the king Solomon went to the Amazon and told them how to put these plants together.

Right and I kings off early, and so this is this. It is a religion right. So I think that, dumb with that's, why I'm kind of that's why they prim court agree with it because it so wacky again, you guys sound like a religion right I mean but its habits are. They know that they didn't make it up. I ll ask is having an incredible effect in America, really amazing the number of different people they're using it, not necessarily in these exact religious contacts, but in a shawl monistic our personal growth or more or I have little modified or even in these these services. Why hasn't that religion expanded? Well it's. It is its being used quite alot, there's a lot of ceremonies and governing Oliver America all over the world with I'll Oscar its but this, but this union but actually has a junior de Vegetal, you dv that, but they have their

spanning somewhat, but there it's, how say they have authority. They have already had a legal authority from the? U S, Supreme Grey or to the only once the Santa TINY went up to the nine circuit, so they essentially have this. The argument that the it just didn't get appealed to the Supreme Court by the prosecutor so bright. But the need not to vegetable I'd say you know now, one year on year de Vegetal, they do have that, so they are locked down there. Yes and the time is too, but it, as I said it, they want in the appeals, court and we're gonna get richer Branson. Richard Miranda Vavasor open these bridges up like right. Next to virgin records average records anymore heart of this. Why haven't they exceed and the more I heard of it is in a how cultural integration so cultural appropriation, but cultural integration, so they're bringing a tradition from a different culture right, and they're trying to integrate it at a rate where it doesn't. It grows its constitutionally protected, but it doesn't

grow too fast. Maybe there's a way worthy grow too fast, and it wouldn't be the care and the use of the tea and they want to make sure that its responsibly handled these, the people that are running church writer. Yes, yes, yes, yes, Jeffrey craftsmen urges to visit in high. They want to keep it on the deal now know their hide. No, no. They very bout lay on the floor that well, you know you don't hide by ignoring the Supreme Court is a shout. The outer yeah, but I thought It's amazing that they did actually get the ruling. I mean that's amazing, back there, taking one of the most potent psychedelic drugs known to man, it's true, and but they got this horde of mainstream religions deserves a lot of weird things that middle stream religions, due for a cultural practices or even hasn't precedent being set with wine yeah yeah it's swine is most certainly a drug and it can be used by children and certain ritual ceremonies and Diccon, but it's a common part of two thousand.

Unlike the wine is a very common part there's a lot of weird stuff in religion and as soon as you start saying that one person can't do their weeds, weird something. Ok, what kind of weird Do you that exemptions for the way you look at their exemptions, electoral rights, you can cut baby dicks what are you doing, you're Robin Dirt, on your forehead on once a week s? What the fuck are you doing, the in the idea that one make fun of the other CIS at a certain point times: a yes blinders on. Ok, this whole thing is pre wacky, the union Union, DE vegetable, they might have the right idea the only way to do it. Well, the part about it: That's really good is that while they have their again there their traditions. It's about the experience right. It's about the individual experience for yourself Rick's. Draftsman did it with them d, told me it was very strange. He said it's really strong is likely to bully strong. I was gonna sing, songs about Jesus, oh daddy,

What like it's a trap? Yeah I didn't have to have a generous spirit and away like ok, it's Jesus, but it's about reverence you ve heard of generalised and euro. We were talking about this the other day and tell me if this makes any sense to you if you have this idea when you go like when you take I've never done I Alaska, but I've done DM tea on multiple occasions I too have had this psychedelic affect the most potent version of that right. I would wonder if you went in with the intention and had these experiences with the intention to communicate with some benevolent deity that you believe is responsible for, life and all love on the planet. If you kept think of that, as you entered into this Damosel trip, to mean state of consciousness, isn't it possible,

a vast majority of what is happening when you are having a psychedelic trip. Is What the word hallucinations very strange, because with the hallucination implies, is in this world but we're sitting right here with tables and chairs in rooms. Something could you could see it, but it could not be real. The problem that is like What what are you saying and why can't other was it, can other people see it too was not a bit. We could see it. That is not a loser nation right, so it's how do you know what other people saying we really not right now? How do you know when you close your eyes? You're, honest psychedelic drug? How much of what you are experiencing is your visual cortex, interacting with your mind, interacting with these drugs in New York activity in your consciousness. There colliding gliding and dancing together along

with your imagination and in the whole, almost and in this moment, if you go into that with his intention, your imagination can conjure up this gene this type character in the eyewash ceremony and he can be real can be what you want him to be and he could be an investigation of your own experiences in this life that you ve, carried around his memories and carried around his emotions, and that in this academic stage. You continually go to it with that intention. It's entirely possible that they do experience. Something like that. Exactly. I think that you, We see through our own filters and we see a lot of times what we want to see and that we can coalesce a lot of feelings and images that early pre verbal into certain kind of symbols, while special we have in IRAN and insanely potent psychedelic drug. Yet so the idea that we ever know the ultimate true

that is not somehow or other filtered through our preconceptions Jollily roses great book, one of things tat I felt was great- was called simulations of God as a different conceptions of people have of God and how you Yet these views and then there's a way to transcend that and see something even deeper and deeper, and that that we have these filters, and so the culture is and the contacts is more important than the drug. So I think one of the issues of the sixties was people had so much faith. They they wanted much cultural change. They were so it was such a strife full time that they have. This hope is unreasonable, hope that the drugs were enough, that

psychedelic were enough that they would somehow or other bring this connection to the truth, to to this new understanding just by themselves, and it's really more about the context but the context and with a proper open context and in our case a therapeutic context in the experimental sense. Then, when you add the the pharmacology, it produces really unusual opera communities to go very deep and that's what I think we can show that we can do that and contain it in a regulatory therapeutic healing context that can slowly be accepted by our culture and that that's really either the value proposition that were presented to the FDA, see. The way you described is why maps are so important for some

by making Jesus exists when travelling balls are making your own Jesus like why you're Tribune and you bring it back studies and science in data on prior to paper and where to tie, and so for us Yes, yes, that were actually discussing. Should I word I thirty inveteracy or not. What do you do? I haven't site? it's just like Jimi Hendrix, but that did that data is really this double checking of what we think is true right and it's away where we have to have that humility. That we don't necessarily know this ultimate others no way to know and that's conscious, humility, that's a fact, there's no way to know what you are experiencing when anybody else is experiencing when their tripping, you really don't know We don't know what it is and it's entirely possible That is something that we all understand. Yet we yet, and so

So the reason I brought back in weight to this science is that were operational, rising its effect on symptoms, so, whether you have this memory that is, actually true, so, whether it Jesus or whether year, remembering childhood sexual abuse, whether that, unlike able to those together as its but that's the guy the church. Let I know you do there, there was little stop you things I leaped over there, but but, but whether that occurred in actuality is an important question for the legal system more for other ways, but from a therapeutic from healing from a compassion the point of view, if this expression, if its symbolic or actual, if it has the consequence of helping people, come to terms with themselves and to get more acceptance about what happened. That's what we're looking at were looking at the outcomes. So I think that that's the practical part, that's the science Bart it's like,

there are questions. I believe I for a lot of times in my really honesty trips I wanted God to show up- and I was the true how arrogant a busy guys. Never out of the ship gone. I well. I remember from my Burma's where I was like the literary magazine I love most while, but the flock God in I studied all. This, however, is with that in mind, the next day after my Burma's eyes, like ours the same like a lot of man them not any different than there was- and I I couldn't took me a couple days thank God, was maybe busy. Maybe lotta people got bar mitzvah that day and after like a week, I recognize you know, I'm not gonna change and It's gonna take something else. The ritual didn't quite, do it and then, even with my lsd trips wanting to see God wanting to have this clarity and not quite getting it and then appreciating there that was a delusion in some ways that keeping the UN's r and D. Is he

integrity and but that there is a strong longing for that. First, yeah that you sound like a dude is rationalizing editing get to meet. God is absurd, This whole thing be different right. They re like aliens rising visit everybody when they does visit so very unique experience. Real I don't know man. I think this real problem in insane. You know what other people experience, whether it's under the influence of psychedelic drugs or whether it's a completely sober or that's in a meditative state, is the idea that anybody can tell you what you experience or what you got out of something as foolish. So then it be the matter of whether our protecting people, so if our laws are designed to protect people, we should do it scientifically. We should look across the board at all the damaging things and we

Don't do that at all. That's why the government never discusses cigarettes, because we all know how many people cigarettes kill every year in the hundreds of thousands and no one brings about known running for president no one running for Congress. They just don't bring it up, it's not something they want to fight against, because if they do, they get slaughtered with money. So not about whether or not there trying to protect us, then what is it allow? Although at the same time, cigarette use has been going forward at all yet still half a million people die every year in this country, still yeah it's still crazy if it was just five thousand people here, hot how quickly they shouted down. Five thousand p. Would die prematurely every year because of marijuana. How quick with it be the demon of tell it well, it depends on what we do about the benefits of the equation. It's not called nominated as it exists or other the units. Europe's only thirty five thousand isn't dying before I got right, but if you're widely

The five hundred thousand are dying from cigarettes are extremely significant right. It will. What should be done, but we should do, is make everything legal and then let people you're out what you want to do, and not what to do this, which is what we do with most things today, most like cigarettes and alcohol that can kill you. We let you try. Exact is knowing they will tell you what to do man if you weren't Charles Bouquet, ski just drinkin smoke yourself to an early grave and just stood scribble. The oh shit along the way mate who gives a fuck it's off night right, whose one person tell another person. They can't be mixed. Job or sky. Well, I right, I think you can have that. I want you to be free. I wanna be free to do it. I feel, as do our, you should have the same freedom, but if you are hurting yourself, I'm compassionate and lets try to see. Are you struggling with your own true our were right, but but not to try to do what you do about rock climbers.

Yeah you just try to get safe equipment. Blurry the wrong rivers with bad childhood, seeks cut them off in our people can make choices. About risk in different ways- and I assure you really at some point Nowhere does it shade into suicide in well. I did you think suicide should believe. There's another one where I think the I think there should be. I mean the. I don't think you should be punished. If you try to get suits committed suicide in you survived, then don't you believe I hate her Peggy leaders, America, like because I gotta think it's against the law- and I put this crazy. The suicide when people or end of life in pain makes domain, certainly, but there has to be a lot of protection, but I think there is this a general feeling like life has again

that I have and that that somehow we need to run its course rather than why? I think this is another way were empty. I may therapy will help and I think there's a lot of people that are haunted by their memories. Memories of their past memories of their own failures meant memories of things that they did wrong and those things can really fuck with you in L. A People define themselves in this weird way like by their past failures like that, is that's all the experience. They have. That's all they know of themselves and they it they people of a very difficult time, just saying ok, we'll those things are things and I'll never do again. I made these mistakes and now I'm this person is learned It has a really hard jumped for some people because they need some sort of a memory definition of their patterns of behind and when the memory definition when they look at their own memory and everything, is this failures and coming up short and miss. You ran in cargo repossess those kind of failures over and over and over again stack up, and you d find yourself by those failures.

And it becomes really hard to move forward really hard for people and so each little positive step that people can do can be so significant because it alters the course not just outlined. Was this: Tony Robins thing ones and I hate them quote: turnarounds gets a really good quotes I think she was talking about was how just its incremental changes in your life. So if you have two cars that are going or two boats that are going in there direction and one veers off course, just five degrees. Well, they both go ten miles. This one further and further and further from the other one, and it keeps going further. It's going it's it changes the course. It changes the direction and India may therapy or any sort of a psychedelic experienced its bound. Resolving and in an ego, does all being- and it just gets to the raw heart of the matter and allows you this really intense perspective on it. That's almost unattainable without those experiences, then that person leaves that and they

almost like a fresh start in a fresh understanding of who they are. They self defined differently that in itself, is like a recipe for success. Yeah, there's this beautiful part of setting oneself and loving oneself even worth all of these failures, even with everything that is happening, Not that you deny that has happened or you don't see it assists this sense that you can relax and feel that self love, and that is what so, rare and I think that's why empty May as one of the most popular illegal drugs in the world and why it needs. Aids and will become a medicine and the reason that I selected. It is also because training therapist reaching to the main stream so that when we talk about

How do we incorporate this as a medicine is with healers its with doctors and therapists, and I think what we found is that we have FDA permission for a study where we can administer it to therapist Part of our training programme were studying the psychological effects of empty May taken by healthy volunteers and therapeutic setting wow, and it's a double blind crossover, placebo, controlled study. But we can bring in therapists from all over the world and give them in Amity may session? Were there the patient and their seeing our method of how to deliver it? And so media may is something that I think will have a smoother easier way into psychiatry and into psychotherapy because of it. So gentle, because it

isn't so much good dissolving as ego clarifying your defences are relaxed and you can kind of except yourself or you are so you can see more clearly and then how you integrate that an end? How you'd make it so that that. Affects your daily life afterwards. I think it's really important thing about being a manageable experience, so a manageable experiences alongside dogs, because it feels really good yeah, yeah, I got you. Gonna have a bad trip for the most part, although some of the veterans have said you know, I don't know why they call this ecstasy. Why? Because they're going through this trauma from their war, so it's like so even under the experience of empty a man around the influence of embryo may it still, they didn't like the fact there was bring back those memories are not or they lighted for that was per this healing, but it was painful such sums. It makes the pain bearable it doesn't make the pain go away. A or doesn't change your memory like it didn't happen by socialism.

One it bore it's like you look really can imagine what their experiences are It could even worse. You know childhood sexual abuse. New can trust your parents, sir. You can't trust your circumstances or, yes, all tear alterable zone, accountable era and how people you can get into these were Hatteras awful and- and it seems like through the techniques- embryo may as part of the technologies of healing worlds. Who sings we were talking about with Jamie before this podcast started before you got here, and we were saying how ridiculous it isn't it take so long to get things past and that government. The going to review marijuana in July well aware of this in July, yet well, they're, gonna, say no and we ve been working will explain whether you must know too. I believe that the request is

marijuana be rescheduled from schedule on schedule to and that This rescheduling that the framework, if you don't mind and explain what the difference is scheduled to avert from the point of view. So the schedule is the worst drugs and they have no. Madame no medicinal value. There are no current they're, not current accepted medical and there's no currently set safety under medical supervision and no currently accepted medical use and high potential for abuse schedule to drug, and these are the most heavily criminalize drugs scheduled to accept for certain exceptions, schedule to which are also drugs with a high abuse potential, but have an accepted medical use like methamphetamine and coke and cocaine. And heroin and heroin is not in the? U S but Although all the obvious, our heroine is legal in England, but it's been blocked here. So much like oxy com

sir? I don't think that hitherto, every medicine that you can get a schedule, gents, essentially the same as heroin right. It's very, is sometimes more dangers and certainly not a meaning, the second is site, its assent, It has very similar, yes yeah, but it has a medical use for pain right, so moving from scheduled for a schedule to there's been efforts to try to force the d to do this, but the way the schedules or set up there has to be a currently accepted medical use and data is not there and you took four about you know when you have enough anecdotal data or I believe that we are so capable fooling ourselves into believing what we want to believe and just when changes may not be there- that we need science, we should take marijuana through the drug development system. We should take the soggy dogs. They doesnt needed we're about to start a study with marijuana. Evasively start trying to do drug development research of marijuana. Nineteen any to this is the first time to think

Sixteen, but so there's no established medical benefits of marijuana that has been proven in any scientific, Yes, there has been a lot of evidence in phase to pilot studies, but the definition of real proof is phase three studies. These large scale studies that you work and negotiate with after for the mere wanna plant now Guida view from a suitable is a company in England. It grows. Marijuana takes extracts sat of acts. It's a teaching and c b d combination in a pill, and then they also have epidural acts, which is c b d for childhood epilepsy. So they are in phase three studies. So there are people working with marijuana extracts in different non smoking delivery systems going through the system, but the plan itself is highly effective. A dozen cause, long cancer- if you

I'll get if you vaporize, it is even less your deigning to lungs and theirs. Possibility that a low cost plant Israel right now, they grow high potency trim buds for fifty cents, a gram fourteen dollars announced so I think, there's prohibition of it in making the marijuana plant in smoker vaporize form into a medicine available paid for by insurance as a alternative to all these other medicines. But there is no effort right now we're starting it. Six years ago we started a study for marijuana for PTSD and veterans, so we ve talked about India May, and I d is to help people with a few empty. May sessions not need empty. A may not need drugs, Sir reorganise their brain, but there's a lot of people

PTSD that fine marijuana to be helpful. If they don't have the nightmares there more present focused and their thinking. Well, maybe I don't want to do the same dna or maybe it's a supplement. So there never been a study of marijuana for PTSD there's been lots and lots of anecdotal reports. Hundreds of thousands of people saying that its help in different ways. But marijuana is a palliative meeting that it just treat the symptoms and its use usually every day. So it's taken a six year, we're about to start the study and it will Take us another. Several years to finish it part of it'll be adjourned. Hopkins part of it'll, be in Arizona. Seventy six veterans with chronic treatment resisted PTSD in retesting one sample, that's high, teach see one: that's high sea VD, one, that's kind of tt CD combination and then one policy. But when we gotta two point, one million dollar grant from the State Colorado profit to do this study and its

to be a definitive thing, an because again we're nonprofit were giving away the protocol. There's no intellectual property like that. There's a lot for profit company privateer that actually is bought the Marley Brand and they have a m their medical marijuana, company venture capital and they have as various till rate, which is a big production. Marijuana production factory in British Columbia supplies like five thousand patients, their own by private here and we have given them our marijuana protocol and so they're going to use. The study with our study does, with the same study fine, but with their marijuana and they're, gonna, vaporize and they're gonna organism and then there's a new study, starting in strangely, there's this guy who's, Gran child had pediatric epilepsy and nothing helped, and then they tried CD and stop the epilepsy is to a great extent, and then the father donated three three million to the University of Sydney. Woe for cannabis research is

largest grant the history of the University of Sydney, so they are going to take our protocol and they are going to get me, I want a frontier re but put into capsules as edibles, so we're gonna have three different studies, similar in design, but smoked vaporized and edibles. We're gonna combined the data, and so this is the scientific process, but it'll take us it taken a six year. So far, just to get the study even started. The study will be three years. Then what from it- and we really need to do another three for you study a phase three causes adjust phase two and in the meantime, we have to break the government monopoly on marijuana because in the U S were stuck with the government marijuana and so explain that, while the police in Nice- sixty eight Andy, while actually at Harvard once did you study of marijuana and so the government started farm at the University of Mississippi to grow marrow.

On four research and ever since then the nationalist drug abuse has contracts now, and so the University of Mississippi, professor solely, is now in charge. They are the only federally licence de licensed marijuana in America and the FDA is a federal agency, so it can only work with drugs that are naturally legal, so the only source of marijuana in America that can be used in clinical research. Is this marijuana controlled by the National John Drug abuse, which has been anti marijuana with this contract with the University of Mississippi? And we have tried maps, has tried, starting in two thousand, to break this monopoly and we submitted a applicant in two thousand and one with Professor Lyle Quaker at Umass Amherst and, We want a D Administrative Lodge lawsuit, the second time through the d and one, but in the end they ignore the judges. They ignore the science and the politics takes over

so, and we lost in the appeals court in two thousand and thirteen, so the way described We have this nine hundred, sixty grams of super pure empty May, but one I appeal the government What did they say when their appealing? They said that that the government had an adequate supply, but is aiming for everybody in all research for the research here we show that they didn't have what we needed and also meaning that the there has to be inadequate and uninterrupted supply produced under adequately competitive conditions. While also did you factor in the fact of the different strains of different response Mrs yeah yeah, that's it that's! Why we're using these different right with a government today since they Leyla understand, there's different stranger associated with different feelings. Only recently ever they had any CD available, so Judah pharmaceutical. Started and ninety ninety eight combining sad of exports, fijian CB day it was up

he'll just last year that they had the. U S, government could provide. Marijuana was cd in it that they have not been focused on making these things in the medicines is, is more low, potency research the risks of marijuana and it's the final next step, The medical marijuana story is to end the obstruction on pay privately funded drug development research trying to make the plant into a medicine and that's what ironically, easier to do, research was like it Alex, then with marijuana to try to make it into a medicine, because we control are drug, so getting a gnp emptier. May I it's the same? African Union face three that we want a market but the federal government marijuana can only used in research, it can't be marketed and because strains are also different. We can't show marijuana, helps repeats hasty with one strain and then just say I'll, give us rule for any other stream, so we need to do

who's this, and this is the true for FDA for other botanical. If you're gonna do a study and botanical medicines, this phase three study needs to be with the same, a consistent batch that you want him why guess is so important because we want the same sort of stringent process to be taken place for a drug, safer arthritis or something like that like there's somebody, drugs have been gone through clinical trials and wound up still. Even after all, being dangerous. But the problem with this is that we know it's not dangerous is if there is any question whatsoever about whether not hurting anybody, yes and what I'm basically saying, is about insurance and science, so that it should be. What I'm saying is marijuana should be legal right away. Of course, people should be able to get this the problem says that were trying to go through with making the marijuana plant into a medicine is solving the fundamental issue that all of these, medical marijuana states that have approved medical marijuana laws. The patients have to buy the medicine themselves, they dont get it covered by insurance rights.

That'll only happen when you go through the FDA and you made it federally legal, so The intention is to make it so that people can get their medicine so that they can get paid, for. Or by insurance is at the intention. Yeah. It's like a medicine right. And so the way to do that is to make it federally legal. That's the best pathway think to federal realisation. Well, I think by I'm talking about early legalised for medicine right so to go through the FDA process. Then insurance companies, I mean- They can build doing studies now and look at the fact that people are using marijuana instead of a lot of more expensive pharmaceutical medications and that from an insurance company point of view it could be worse eyes to subsidize marijuana right now. It just has haven't yet. As far as I am aware that insurance companies in Canada, the canadian government

as for medical marijuana for veterans- that's iciest iii. The canadian government pays for that. Even though there's been no science. Are these studies that these three studies will be the first on marijuana, Prometheus decontrolled studies, and so there's the likelihood that once we make it into an empty approve, medicine insurance companies will then be willing. Now it's federally legal cover it as a medicine for what has been proved to be, particularly if it saves money on other medicines, so that's the culturally of course, then the pharmaceutical drug companies are gonna. There's can be about back there. It's all really there. In holding us back this nutty system that we have right now, that's so complicated to make something is harmless, marijuana become legal. What will the system has been blocked the system itself when its unblock really that long. You just talked about how our citizens are. Wasn't that long run with with psychedelic

I'm in part of it is also resources. Do we have the resources? from the studies but the instant ninety. Ninety two, the FDA, had an advisory committee meeting the decision that was about what to do about medical marijuana, what to do about second Alex, and should they be permitted to be studied as medicines. This was ninety nature so there's been roughly twenty years of suppression of research crack down after the sixties, the FDA had this adviser com do me, the national drug abuse convened a meeting of their animal researchers doing studies on second, tax and other drugs and animal models for interfere out, they do they reckoned human use. The advisory committee recommended that human research be resumed and they have to be adopted that so that we've actually had this open door with the research at the FDA. If we have the resources, except for marijuana because the marijuana was controlled by the national, so drug abuse. We had broken that we got neuron supplies of secondary

after as their own supplies of Sir Simon. So now the system takes six to ten years, something like that of doing the research. Once you have a drug that you think there's something too to prove it, and that is take some time and it a lot of money, but it doesn't cost billions like that pharmaceutical company will tell you I mean, were actually able to make em remainder medicine in part because its demonized drug, because its ecstasy governments over the world, have spent over three hundred lily. Dollars barely more. By now on Greece, which were them do you may? If you go into the scientific literature and med line and you put in empty America, to see there's over five thousand papers. Lot of science has been done. We haven't had pay for about the risks, but even then, when we sort of take them

and then do the kind of studies that we need to do is make it Alex? It feels like the system is it takes time to prove it, but we are so good at ourselves- and there is something to be said for this process, and so I think when we talk about how come marijuana into medicine. Part of it is that the process has been gum dub for fifty years. Still gummed. Up by this last I mean there was another step that to get yes to this federal marijuana, you had to have a public health service review that was created and ninety ninety nine, because before that they only gave the marijuana to government researchers you you can even do your own funded study with marijuana through the FDA then gets marijuana was only for their researchers. Ninety nine they could this policy that would open it up in their minds. But there is a special review? In addition, the FDA D and Araby that that we just were able

succeed in getting them to eliminate the Obama administration eliminated at last summer. This public health service review its what blocked our marijuana PTSD stay for years and years. That's gone, the last thing to get gone. Is this government monopoly on marijuana and working were planning to resubmit, an application from professor breaker we're working with the commission filling a big DC law from taking the case pro bono, too, do a legal analysis and then we will try to persuade with work with Senator YA, Jill Brandons and Senator Warren, and others have been engaging the dossier and on disability age ass, you in discussions about this monopoly, there's growing support in congress- and this is the last vestige of sir politics blocking the science with psychedelic sir marijuana, then the system we'll have to work with and in the meantime, people can go around and legalised, and then that gets access and so well

saying: wait for the science to will. Do you have any fear with the upcoming elections, give any fear. If we go right wing that there might be some blow back yeah, I mean I fearful that all the time I mean might might serve core imprint. Was that nineteen seventy one. I first of LSD, nineteen. Seventy two, you know I decided This is what I want. I want my life too and I looked around and I saw all the search has been shut down. Right, I serve came in one year after the big sweeping probus. I woke up to it not when it was thriving, but right after the backlash that's why I think I was so motivated get involved with empty a may, because I learned about him Demain nineteen, eighty two when it was in underground psychedelic psychotherapy tool under the code name Adam, that the government had no knowledge of we in Dallas

Adele is no. Doubts were Adam. Empty may turned into ecstasy, so that's where they started, selling it above ground. There's a credible movie! That's gonna come out the stark club about the club in Dallas, where it really yeah well now, but it because it had this dual life. One has this quiet underground therapy drug with about half a million doses that I'm in the used by around one thousand nine hundred and eighty, and then the other. Was this public ecstasy use I thought. Okay now I know about it ahead of time. I can see the crackdown coming. Everybody could see the crackdown coming, but now we can organise now we can have. We can expect to people about it. It's not a crime and gather our forces and have people try it even and that's where I became really and politically involved. In the eighties? But it's amazing how long is taken but it's amazing. They have the fortitude to push through. For so long I mean the world the world.

And the consciousness of the people. All you guys are massive debt. I mean out of gratitude for sure that you, you ve, been out there pushing this envelope and an chipping away. It's like one many weapons chipping at this wall of ignorance of maps is a really powerful one and we ve been able to do it in a way where. Right now we have who senior retard fifty officials who are acting as our consultants to prepare our documents because they felt there is a strong need for new treatments for PTSD I mean they don't necessarily you're, saying anything about cultural change and your spirituality or drug war theirs for soldiers just for some other people, everybody with PTSD brandy have watched over the last fifteen twenty years. What we ve done, it actually there's a woman on our staff? Ilsa Jerome that isn't been reviewing all these papers. Are these five thousand people? hers and developing was called in

junction with other members of our team. Investigate brochure a summary of the literature, with a risk benefit kind of calculation. How you take all this information and then what does it mean in terms of the risk that you presented the patients in the study and that you tell the doctors and the people at the FDA thought that we were doing it fairly, in a time when it was being distorted and all these different ways and Ilsa is actually a little bit more M conservative than I am, and I knew that it was kind of good to let her take the lead in writing this and that it got the respect of the FDA. So that's where I am very hopeful that isn't a kind of strange that India may being used to treat PTSD is primary motivating factor for the federal government trying to make it legal, because, if you think about it, p as PTSD is inexorably associated with

war here with yourself. So in some sort of a strange way, war was responsible for at as accelerating the legalization of empty amount, which is really fuckin cry. Easy. I mean that is like the Indian Yang, unlike in other biomechanical form that some Kido yeah. That's crazy If you really look at what that is now no we'd. Also, though, what about the other? The next step does actually we ve been accused of by our people have raised the cautionary tale, which I disagree with what they have said. As some people have said, are you making work more easy to wage, not more power. If you are reducing the costs of war, Are you making war convoluted more likely of an option? And I think it's a worthwhile question to ask it. It applies to all medics

doctors that work for the military rise surgeons see. No, are you by treating people making it easier for them to be a means of varying our perspective. It's a very narrow perspective, hence also not taking into consideration the actual psycho active effects of that substance. That substance make someone loving. So if you think that giving out pills make you more loving or more likely gonna generate more war or make more more palatable. I think the Alps is probably true. I think the people who become more loving? Who can relate the experiences of the horrors of war to other people who become more loving because they also get a hold of the stuff damaging that's more likely to eliminate or lessen war least mitigated significantly, because I think that wars probably mitigated Sidney significantly now in comparison to the sheer numbers of people. I can comparison

now, five years ago, six years ago and is probably way less war? Yet I just want to have access to those Steven Pinker. Just ass was very choosing the reduction of violence, the what's ways here. It's way safer and I think that things like psychedelic drugs in particular, but also deal a meditative technique focusing on being in the moment focusing on learning how to manage your mind and there's a lot of things that people practicing and attempting to to use in their everyday life today, mindfulness and its bids is it's a subject That's repeated very often, and people are trying to find a better way of approaching different the Lammers in their life, and this is a tool for those things it's a tool for those things could be considered alongside of yoga alongside of men station. Alongside of reading self help books. Alongside of having good friends, you can open up with, and you can discuss things together and get encouragement from each other

and maybe even criticism from each other, and all those things exist. In all sorts of different forms and the existing psychedelic says well. Allow The times me especially. I find eating marijuana to be one of the most self annulled icing, objective, introspective experiences. You can have a real Gub called any holes you might have in your game just max you into place and sends you back out there in the world who are shit. Ok, I gotta they're gonna got it. There was tools in the desert. They're all tools that be used in a variety of different ways, but to deny the fact that they can be used beneficially at this point. Is really silly, because we are finite beings, live a short amount of time. Wouldn't it be nice if you got rid of most of your bullshit by the time he had eighty at, and I think this sense of isn't it about time that

It is, and I think that there is a mainstream system- that's ready to incorporate that's reaching out on the other side of the house and then

this possibility of really integrating. This does seem to be the case and I think, with the military I think the there their training is to make people who suppress their emotions, and he did not feel the emotional consequences to act in the heat of battle without the emotions and I think with empty May, if you how people feel the emotional consequences of their actions, even if you ve healed them from trauma, and they want to go back to their units that they are going to be more careful more sensitive, though be I saw, I have there's a german psychiatrist that tourism policy any sort of raised this issue for me, is what about the concentration camp guards, what if they were tormented and they came to you for empty, may therapy, your german

best, and I come to you it would you treat the concentration camp people for their trauma and I think the question is: are they are people who are worked within this emotional way for their trauma more or less likely to go back into these situations that produce the trauma that first well? That question only becomes valid. If you think we should you punish a person has done something that in all ways for ever or should you try to make them better rain means on exonerating them for the horrible things I've done, but should if you're gonna keep them alive shouldn't you try to make them a better person. Do have some sort of responsibilities. Do that I would say the argument. If you want to look at our civilization in that like the most efficient manner, but want to look at more like what is the best way to get our civilization. Yet it will have less assholes, less crazy people, s mean people less. You know less psychopathic, Fuckin security,

at our wits. So if you do have one either probably get a lot of data from studying that guy, and you know it is obviously gonna- be in jail for the rest of his life her yeah Emmy, which were terseness France's. Would you do that for an active military where they did not historical, but they go back and arms I know that's like. Would you do it for habit, and I want to get on your feet in time, machine and travel back to their home and days giving them we'd have to worry about that. If the way but people today right- and I feel that train- bring that healing approach that those loving feelings which Emily, may can really generate through oxytocin and prolactin hormones. Release that or a nursing and bonding empty May releases. Those hormones that sir. Drugs are women, get when they orgasm yeah, yeah yeah, and actually worsened, has written this terrific paper about how orgasms the post orgasm estate

and his compared the post orgasm estate and they hormonal release to empty a may, and I think when we talk about India may a good way to think about. It is the post orgasm estate, your satiated you're you're, not strike having dude. If you could come, and I felt as good as we ecstasy It was such ourselves like ourselves, at the forthcoming for that guy he's coming on empty and they are due to settle down they're a minus one nor cement is empty amazing. I exaggerate. It is made a federal good ones. India may feel that do not even hear some planet love. I did it once did. It wants to two pills, super powerful stuff the next day was wrecked and that that was not worth it for me. I definitely

learn a lot from the experience, but the next day was absolutely horrendous. Well is probably her and is because you wanted to do things when we talk about people to rethink about em, dna We say it is not doing. It's a two day experience you need the second date arrest and reflect again is what's the purpose of it. If you're trying to have experiences, loving experience and then can bring appropriates. Some of that in your daily life, learn and integrated. Then the very next day is one of the most important parts, because you're still halfway and halfway out you're able to think about it. That's where a lot of the integration work gets done. So in our therapy we make it so that people spend the night in the treatment centre just so that they do have to move. They don't have to get distracted and then there's hours of psychotherapy. The next day they held them integrated. And then, when they go home we call them every day and of for a week on the phone just to check in and see I'm handling sub threat

yeah. Like redoubling. That's all, I feel in our time Brown man piece out, We got a wrap this up and unfortunately we started late and I are gonna get out here. Is there anything you can direct people towards website which is maps, dot, Org, yes, and in fact we have our thirtieth anniversary celebration on Sunday, April seventeenth and were live streaming at flooring, so it maps dot, Org, slash how I know when people are de agents. Undercover there well tie clips. Actually we have our first Reese Senior retard the consultant and marched man and smart. But again it's compassion. I mean you had a son who listed in the army and has PTSD and is fifty percent disabled from PTSD and has found marijuana to be helped.

Again isn't it assets. What yeah, yeah war. Those kind of stories that help me think that we can do this integration. We can- and I am worried about right wing backlash, but there's a couple things that we put in place. First off the work with military rightwing loves the military. If trying to help the military there's. Also people are compassionate about childhood sexually, survivors and- and so I think that we have enough of a base of evidence and long pattern. Since nineteen eighty two of the president's at the FDA, that I think we could survive the FDA also recently did something your interesting with the abortion bill. Are you forty six that they made it easier? women, they eliminated one required step that the science showed that they didn't need, and so the FDA is very much trying to be science over politics, I mean

They will have enough to commissioner, let's appointed by and confirmed by president, but at the same time the people that are, they are really focused on science politics compassion the other parties that we have international strategy. So there was a long time anybody ever talked over the music. I was also bottom information I wish I didn't have, but I really do. Thank you very much hashtag psychedelic because still psychedelic, because what does that mean Dante? It don't stop. I gotta go. I owe mouths dot, Org and the they party one more time is April. Seventeen. Seventy eight ever seventeen in Oakland, whereat, exotic right temple, retire to start, starts from five to eleven antigonus adore. You know not for further evening carbon out for the banquet. So you gotta go to maps that organ tat. You saw that information be ok thanks so much needed. I lays a German, that's it for the weak soon, whereby you, my friends thanks to caveman coffee once again for

feeling us through this extravaganza words, Caveman coffee seo, dot com. My good brother, Tate, Fletcher, Keith, John Dene, his friend and lazy Mackey. Also his friend on his company and its an awesome company goes my coffee seo dot com find out what's up single source, single origins, single family, coffee from Colombia. Where else about you by ANA Dotcom, every episode on oh and an eye to use the code word Rogan. Save ten percent of any and all supplements. We are brought to buy stamps dot com click on the microphone off. The top of the homepage typing J R IE, for this special offer. A four we try, plus hundred ten dollar bonus, offer, including postage any digital scale, thanks

also to draft kings? Dotcom play it for free use, the promo code Rogan to play for free with your first deposit, that's promo code, rogue into play for free at draft kings, dot com in we're done. That's it, my friends, so nice, what fun weak God! Damn I enjoyed this one startle Simpson, rose and Rick Dobbin. That's a good week next week, Dama rarer. Perhaps Joe ideas We gotta got a lot of money, for you got a lot of all. So what's he soon? Thank you very rigid, fuck out of you