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go stamped com before you do anything cooking, the microphone top the homepage. I've been J, r e stamps dot. Com entered J r D. You mother, fucker sets it. We did it. We got through it. I know you'll do these adds man doesn't box capitalism? we needed. This podcast is with Michael would junior and Michael? Would? You might recognize his name was I guess about a year ago. He is retired Baltimore police sergeant. And he is very interesting guy- very bright and outspoken about the problems with not just law. Enforcement, but institutional racism that he found in Baltimore, it is now really working hard to promote a positive message and to offer some solutions to some of the problems. But he found while he was in law enforcement and some of the problem. That he sees all throughout the world today in terms of wet weather,

a crime or drug use or giving people a pause, the direction towards a future, really really good, dude I enjoy having come on? I really enjoyed talking to him. So please welcome Michael, Would Logan experience you block ass, fine ass alive, welcome back. Mr would much rather body goods been allowed for people. Dont know, Michael was a former. You were fought. Well, you never really former marine right is not one of those things. We are marine. You stay marine, ok, bye I was worried about if I would have stayed, maybe, but for the Marines who agree with that. Ok, you were Marine former sergeant in the Baltimore Police Department, and you came on the podcast while back and expose them pretty, I opening

information about how the the whole city some sort of works in this sort of outcome, a closed loop in and Baltimore where the same neighborhoods having the same kind of crime in the same sort of scenarios overrun again, and that was a really important projects for me and was really important podcast for a lot of people listen to because they got exposed to let the inner world kings of police department by someone who is emu. I was really be how honest you were about all of it about the thrill of chasing people and all of the cool stuff about it and we schedule despite gas quite a while ago, crazy that you're coming in the weekend after these, seen shootings in Orlando M. I'm absolutely not happy that that happen, but I'm happy is happy. That could be

you're here, while this is all going down and we get to Canada talk about these these moments? These insane moments that happen. It seems like a few months or so some new insane moment happens, we're some person, usually a man, blows, a fuckin fuse and wines up killing a ton of people. I don't know what, if anything anymore, being maybe you'll have some insight. What, if anything, could ever be done to stop sunlight? This this is where we get into the microbes, a dirty liberal thing when Edward and start talking about gun control because I'd I don't know what else we can talk about. Only other option is to continue, was cycle of more and more force upon one another. So what we know for sure without a doubt that the path we're goin

it is only a matter of time before this record is broken right. So what we're doing will result in that, but we this anti intellectual ISM in America that just won't take that evidence and apply it to what we know is going to be the end result. They we have countries that have done gun control; they don't have my shooting we have mass shootings literally on the daily in America? You just don't hear about em all so where mass shootings gently characterize three or four more casually. Something like that, but this happens every day in these cities doesnt, really yeah, you don't hear about it, will when it's a backyard barbecue shooting in the right right? Yes, all you can think of. Is that a lot of people? Don't categorized those as mass shootings cause. A thing of mass shootings is someone going into a crowd of placing killing a much a civilian are innocent people should say, whereas they think of those kids of shootings in the herd as right

gangs, people competing over drug dealing territory, things on those lines which is another point. Because you were running for you, you wanted to be the head of police of Chicago, still going on no they certainly the corruption went in and, as we could tell the story of a quick what they did is they did a national search. So laws and Chicago said that this point at police Board has to do nationwide search, and then they give three name. And to the mayor the mayor investigates those people and then chooses one, so I predicted They were going to go with me. I am too far ahead still that that knows really ready to take that bite yet, but it still something we You talked about in, they would have had the opportunity I figured they would pick that. I visited pick a black eye who was educated and not from Chicago.

Was my prediction and that's who the police Board did choose? They chose a guy from Atlanta who fit that bill to tee who's gonna, be the black guy that represents the police department, but still totes they're lying I'm thinking of word that everyone knows and I'm just not saying it. So you can pick up a lamb, suggesting you sure, Uncle Tom, and Some people have an uncle Tom he's, a nice guy area of an uncle and his name's timed, and whereby so that's what they're gonna look for something that wealth visually seem satisfying. I lay there in structurally be exactly the same way they so they chose that guy and the mayor still said dear what that guy and when she was this guy Then you would apply, and that is the commission. So who is this gather didn't imply? He was couple ranks down

already in the aid and see he is. He said that he has never seen misconduct or corruption in the Chicago police, farm in his entire twenty. Some your career, he He is intimately tied into a cheating scandal. Promotional test, another but you could solve easily so his foot, and like wife or so think that number one lieutenants test, which is extremely qualifying, says I and soon- is the information comes down that he actually was the one that was developing the tests. Had the answers in this She gets this super high score out of. Nowhere knows when everybody says oh come on, we ve seen this before. We know what it is, so you could solve it. You could return them. Right. Does it first, of course now so that I could do that the idea of any interest in exposing thing? So if I'm gonna come in there and I'm gonna say right, that's it we're gonna be transparent.

Ok, so no when you say that you were a little too far ahead of what do you mean by that It seems the people of a city or of any area have to be pushed hard enough to have that change like they have to have that breaking point where they say: that's it. We're gonna do something different, because what I really push is for civilian control, policing. I want you guys to tell me what what should be done, which is a huge drop in power, so that that would require a mayor. That's willing to give in to the people that have pushed hard enough to say. Look, I'm gonna relinquish control of my essential armed wing and I'm gonna, give it to the people and so it would have been done before back and am aware of not in America, certainly hadn't, so who's gonna be the city that takes that leap. It has to come. It has two. We all know it so

That is what we have tried to do in some areas like in New Jersey in particular, is force these people to integrate more into the community, make them walk the beat which is not like you don't hear about that anymore. Now, everyone's and car and you driving around this closed up vehicle, whereas before everybody, walking around in your sort of like go. There's officer MIKE he's up the community and they get became nor to see these people, they develop friendships with people that were in their neighborhood. There are patrolling and it sort of radiated them more, I think haven't a bunch of people that you don't know patrolling your streets with guns in a car just driving around and you know hardly ever getting out unless they're arresting somebody. That's that's a little odd right well yeah. But I don't see that that the foot patrol is the solution to that, because what they do, they put a facade on it, so they make it look like forbidden

oh, but it still has its essential underpinnings of of being. Motivated to go and make arrests and to get the stats. So I did for patrol for six months and that's what it was. It was being thrown into get drug arrest. I didn't know any body or meet any body was still those seem pushing to get some I put a minute in a prison cell. Do the paperwork go back out into it again, so what we really need is, change the incentives and disincentives so that, no matter what the right We're still going towards that objective that actually serves you right. I had, Psmith in the other, the decent hilarious standard comedian. These also, why now this podcast called Legion of Skaggs is a libertarian verse market, but he was, he was bringing up a point about York after the shootings in New York were a bunch cops had gotten shot down; Was this sort of cool off period where they had

just stopped arresting people for bullshit The bullshit arrests like loose cigarettes, things along those lines, just dropped substantially and people were really excited about that there will I love. This is like a good step, but this is really how it should be. The police shouldn't be glorified red, new collectors just arresting people for that the taxes, lost unloosed cigarettes and that's what killed their garner right precisely means disgusting, it's it's not does not policing, because I've written, Anybody policing should be protecting and serving. Right now. I am really glad that you brought up that instance in New York. So what that is direct evidence against with the head of the FBI has set. Call me who's coming in these pushing this Ferguson effect right. So the idea around there's, you know we have crime going up in these different ever its causes is Ferguson effect that the cops or lay in bed

acts of their not being as proactive and because their not being proactive, then they're, not rock and people Upso stats are going up, and we know that if you have a theory and there's one situation this as your theories complete crap, will your theories complete, crap, and that's what New York was so New York. They they stepped back and they they wanted to be a welcome. What you need us and in word adds didn't show that he has showed lower crime. They had less cause for service. Everybody was happier with what was going on, because that is its. We want to say that policing should prevent things and it's just not possible police. Are there to clean things up and to investigate. After the fact, every a rash should be viewed as a failure of the system. We should

praise and arrests, that is when we failed. That's an interesting we're looking at it. I think another way to look at it. That's maybe more and more common ground. Is you you're fucking with people when you, when you around him all the time and you like, what's going on over their boys, you know like that. Kinda shit, you're fucking with them you creating tension, intention, creates arguments. He creates crime creates resentment. It creates anger. All those things contribute to crime on a percent and when you, fuck with people over loose cigarettes or any sort of nonsense, petty crime that nobody gives a shit about. That kind of stuff is an it's not good for anybody. Not good for the relationship? The police have a citizen's, it's not good for the present of the citizens of other the way they view the police You make some view the police as these these thugs, which citizens, though a significant amount and the citizen is country very much alike- that the fact that that please do that, while the didn't live there right, but

they were poor and they lived in those communities. They wouldn't feel rights it, and so that's you. You always do that. You hit on these big issues, because your job, like we'll wait. This is obvious. It's right in front of our faint here, and what they're doing is is the the are funded, and they also- you have a mayor in Baltimore, the mayor, directs the police departments way, no matter what city or in and but that person is doing, is their serving those those rich people, their serving the mass voter, of the area who just have that integrity still that they want those animals caged in a man, a man and keep him there. So as long as it does not affect us, then who cares? That's really but you're hitting on there is, is that beach.

I dont know that more of this country doesn't want our police to be that way. I think they will be happy about it. I think you're probably right, but I think there are misinformed and I think they have this. This. Incorrect understanding of how that affects the people that these cops are in, acting with and that it actually does probably create more crime. And then, on top of that I think also the problem with that those people that are in those poor communities could just as easily be your eye if we are born the situations and we're talking about people an opportunity to get out, given people possibility to get out and Do better and and improve their situation are standing life while, if they're getting fucked with all the time, that's not gonna happen there is a terrible poverty will lead crime laden community? Good luck with that? Good luck get Nanda.

Arms almost insurmountable, and I think it's real convenient for people to be outside of that. And look at those focusing over those people need to stop doing crime where needed, you just lock them all up. Well, that's that doesn't seem to make sense. It seems much more likely that the best way to hand? That is the lock him up less and too sort of somehow another trade combat area down, and I don't know how you do it: I mean whether its through some universal basic income idea, which I've been paying a lot of Tension to that lately in trying to explore those ideas and see if I can readily call me a socialist you talk about minimum, wasn't items that you know is an idea that anyone brought up on the pot Casanova initially laughed at him. I was like pipes nobody's gonna fuckin go for that then I start reading some articles on it and I start thinking about in the financially. The issue is where that money come from and you're obviously gonna. It's a shit tunnel money

it's gonna have to some are another. Come out of something else and a model. I'm not a financial person. On our stand. Call me I'm not an economist, so I'm not the person to do the numbers, but when I think about it like a actively as far as far from a social stance when people will have less problems when bills are paid easier when they're more relaxed. As far as like we're foods coming from where you know what basic needs are covered their less likely to commit crime, so it just makes sense that you would have to spend less money online horsemen, less money on prisons, less money on jails and that perhaps that could translate was a great article written by sifted. Flour. Jimmy's is some prominent libertarian who wrote this piece about universal basic, income as the ideas essentially giving people thirteen thousand dollars a year that, if you give me

can start. Winos is essentially a thousand bucks plus a month. Then, if you did that you would take care a shitload of problems that we have an inner cities and crime and all this and he sort of outlined it and made a pretty interesting case for this idea. But of course you ve gotta people that want to go on and on about welfare, babies and and and people that are doing. This storm and buying cigarettes with food. Stamps and things on those lines, but it's like this callous sort of protein to dealing with really poor people and really bad neighbourhoods and one, I think, you brought up about Baltimore that made it so disturbing was that black people had to buy houses in these. Areas, they would not sell houses in certain areas to black people and that this was like a law- and this was exe written answers are not like everybody conspired. This was something that they,

actively set out to do. They do this idea of cage M keeping the man they think they literally did that through paperwork And that's so things are you're talking about, unlike that's sociologist, that that has at study we, we know these things, so What would your observing is? Is things that the scholarly community has known for a long time and is trying to to get these things out there? so that people understand this is not. Even a matter of how much is this going to cost because we're already spending the money spending a lot more, this book is: why I mean I just finished going to raise just put up. So this is by Johns Hopkins researcher Stephanie LUCA he's a friend of mine. Now, so everybody knows that I am saying it, but she They did a study, they followed Baltimore youth around for well a decade of things like fifteen sixteen years and their path that they go through and part of that

as a cost twenty seven billion dollars to America every single year for disconnected youth, so that's just youth. They dont have a drive don't have a focus on railways that money is achievable. So what did I do with alien, so they dont chase things rights you get stuck in this pre. Does this idea that you can't escape this neighborhood because we have so many blockades in the way there stories they go through, they they tackling a hundred some people, parents having kids. These neighborhoods and move them out and what happened to him and the two biggest pushers for the success of these. Of any kid in these cities was it they had an identity project which means they are finding their passion and what they're going to go towards because they don't know these passions. They don't know that a photographer I definitely in front of my in Baltimore can't can come out and do things for the community.

And can actually achieve that dream. So they see it and its possible any start taken the hurdles down like the hurdle. Of where they live in the hurdles of the arrest for the bag of we'd or fourth. But you said the the talking yourself into jail, because the cops messing with you every single day in your ear, saturated police, these neighborhoods, you start taken now, These barriers in these kids excel, and that's a ghost, clearly against the narrative that were hearing that these kids don't have motivation and they can't push out eighty percent. These kids. They grow up in the city, never touched the streets or have anything to do with it. They're getting high school degrees fought for five hundred percent, the rate of their their parents. It's just that what keep doors we keep getting them behind in their still fighting super hard, but worse still, throwing more more hurdles in their way. So the money that you're talking about how much it costs for these disconnected use. This

saw in prisons, and this is my friend what is it? This is just a lack of their product productivity from action. Doing, what they can achieve and what its causes ass to then take care of what the in the fall out is in that that that just that microcosm, we're not thrown in locking up everybody out we're not thrown in the parents were not throwing in all sorts of just youth. I dont have a passion. Well It is one of the subjects has come up over and over again on this podcast, because I have always tried to figure out. What it is that keeps people from try, build socially engineer these these environments and make them better for the people who live there like we're, always concentrating on all these other countries were concentrating on. You know helping Afghanistan and building ironic in all the stuff tat. We do humanitarian efforts all over the world right, but about our own inner cities. Activities do think they're misguided. So what we end up

doing is we. We have this idea that were rich and often white and we're gonna in an we're going two like have the hand out or we're going to get then what we want are going to show them the right way and that's not the end so the answer is to ask what they want and provide the structure and platform for that take place. So when these smart people, or that have been in there, though, look at stance in the work of the paperwork and they'll say: and everything will be fine and make sure they have their own police departments. So everything will be would be good, but then the police start blocking your buddy up, and you just you you get into that, resources around dumb and everything we find and we'll make sure they have their own police departments, so everything will be, will be good, but then the police, are blocking your buddy. I been you just you get into that psycho again because your night giving the identity project even to I dont adults, where you and say whether its comedy or whether its photography

no matter what you have to have that goal, that vision, because the they see is that their future is in dealing or in a prison cell, and they keep being told that they do the right things. They can move on, but when they do the right things are sometimes intentions, have put up the road blocks that prevent them from doing that, So what? But, how do you what of engineer for lack of a better term a whole society like you give them goals. How do you? How do you expose them to all these possibilities? these, and how do you set up pass? It's just that. The word expose. There there isolated, they don't know right. But what how do you do? that I think social media is helping a ton, so they can see interact with people that are different from that and they can see what this kid from New York. He dig it into the school and he has this job now and now I can maybe go or for his company or whatever

as they see these examples of success, and then they start to pick him up and chase them and that's what these the staff? and all this book Russia showing that it's it's staggering, how much effort these kids are putting in to their goals, it's just that. You're, actually setting up the prevention of it by doing things like. Oh, ok, we charge blockade in the city. You know you charge whom he can it's a homicide because he was defending a sister from getting raped, but when he gets a prison sent since we know that that presented just swamps him, but when it Why kid from Stanford? You know what happens so. It's kind of this I dont want to push Bothy all the time. But there is that that empathy angle, but it's just kind of helping people get where they wanted,

it instead of pushing them, were you think they should be, though, find their own passes like which we treat poor people like their children and their, not their poor people there's does it do to works at the common store? Who was a criminal defence turning and he resigned, he stopped doing it because he got tired of his. When he was bringing cases to trial. If it was a white guy, the White guy would get in a whatever six months for an identical crime, a young black. I would get ten years and he was like it. You gotta, someone's gotta, tell me what the fuck is going on here, because all I'm looking at is systematic racism, I'm lookin institutional racism is like this is just over and over and over again, I'm confronted by the same kind of people, the same age bracket, but completely different types of sentences, and, what's that Taliban any said everybody wonders bury their head in the sand and he couldn't do it anymore.

Was so strong. I mean when the guide talks, bodies like smoking, cigarettes and freaking out, because it was just a few. And years of his life, and it was this too I can't do it anymore. That kind of shit is almost insurmountable. When you you and your ear living in that world and you're one of those people that get sent down river for ten years for something. You know. If you were a white irish kid you would get six months or you know a much lesser sentence. That alone is gotta, be a gigantic hurdle. Someone living in these environments in design saying the people shouldn't be punished for crimes. They definite should be punished for crimes, but you're sure about that. They also should be both putting absolutely already our view Zebedee our view they should do about martyr, should punish mergers. Gimme certainly depend on situation when I can't help it keep coming back to the fundamental idea, that our criminal justice system is based on punishment

it's not a moral system. It's like the death penalty rap. We know that these things don't work so now now do they. Rights taken away. So what I would like to see is: let's take France, since we know that a cost so and so thousands of dollars a year to how somebody things twenty four thousand depends on where you either so a college degree from an online school, that's a credit it which we can all do easily right now, would cost way less than that. So put him in a cell and you keep em around, but you treated like human beings, you give them an identity. A goal where they can achieve something they actually because right now we sent him into a prison of punishment and what happens They come out there, worse situation. So now we ve created a great or criminal than we had before rest our goal is supposed to be some kind of irritation that this is a better person when they leave them when they go in, but we have that enough. We want these fuckers to pay

well, certainly for murder me for the families of someone that they victimized. They don't want this person to come out better, not even of victims. Feel that way, though, you know it. So there are plenty of murder victims who who parents have gone and ass for leniency Fort for the person or ass, the not given the death penalty, because does it pretty fuckin around? it is our right. Yes, yes, most people want revenge, but we have to look beyond that because when your sister gets in a fight and killed you neighbor who's, your friend or something like that you're not asking for the deaf pony right because close to you, but that's, whereas others we do that others. We wouldn't do that once. We know well threats to society, though those that's the real issue with some people should white Black, whatever summons, associate sociopath sums a psycho there, a threat to society. Like the guy who kill those people, the theatre in Denver. That's a psycho! in that that guy needs to be locked up forever, just right, Chukka learning about and is both what do you do about? It

My back, I mean how do you? How do you take a person like that and D given goals in prison? Do try to get an education in obviously, yet it allowed us to think about that. He could become not not him our sea like saying as mental illness, for somebody else you could Kate them by their there, and they can contribute to literature contribute the science they can give back to some soft society in some way. Is that financially feasible? How much more money would it take to make prison a safer environment for people that are locked up? I mean what, with the other There's that were supposed to be protecting the rest of us from those these people, that of committees awful crimes, rhyme someone's committed rape. So once commit murder, armed robbery. We separate I'm from us, because we don't want them to victimize anymore people, then go number two is rehabilitation and that goal is overwhelmingly failure. Overwhelmingly. If you look at this statistics. If we set a personal, it's been attempted as good good point. Meanwhile, there are eight demean Rick, the guy we

On before the real recross, not that the wrapper guy, he you mean he learned how to read and literally figured out what was wrong with his case in prison. Not only do that, though, a lot I won't give them any access at some do goat, and so there are wardens out there that our progressive and an hour thing at these things so that shouldn't really be on the warden hard. There should be some sort of a standard nation wide where we should look at it as culture as a society is a civilization and say hey, you know what which We be trying to do to try to make these people better people. Why did you do that when you arrest them now? So what we say now is when he goes in shoot, or when someone rapes, we're not looking at that as that failure. So if you, if you were run in this business and acid, a fast of your business failed Then you would want and have an analysis- and you would want to say- are that sooner regression and figure out what went wrong and you'd want to fix that for the next time, but we don't do that we just go. Alright, throw that went away and continue

this is normal. We should be so focus when we arrest somebody to figure out. How we're gonna throw away for the longer. We should be figuring out why it happened, so we can prevent it for the next person, but we this was, it doesn't seem We actually care about solving the crime which is keeping these wheels turning so you commit murder than I want to know why I want to know the scenarios that lead you up to that, because the only way that I can actually prevent that is not minority report its finding out what that hurdle was. Moment that you said fuck this and finding ways vent that as much as possible or reduce it for other people and a lot of it. We have to do with the developmental period that you go through it. You're a young person in what you are exposed to as a small child and that stuff become so deeply ingrained in a person's mind to try to reverse that boy is so much harder than to try to re someone correctly the first time all that's in his book. They talk about

that is coming of age in the other America that mean they talk about these things where that's one of the predictors is how much expense measure to violence that these kids of had when they were gone between the ages of zero in ten, and so when they got them out of the city, and they gave him opportunities, then they got exposed to less violence. The really crazy thing in this study is that we found out that the kids ever in this did city. They didn't help, they also fought their way out and actually a higher rate. So we did this. Nice things and we have to tweak it, but my guard nice things that we did actually didn and out in the same results as kids, just fighting on their own success yeah gets wild, so they had these housing voucher programmes where they would the ideals that take people out of those neighbourhoods and put it it's a nice or neighborhoods where they would be exposed. Less things aim have neighbors round. They did did things in that was very beneficial, went when that happened, but about an equal pay.

Senator those kids went back and being in the local areas and get involved into the streets, and then the ones at fault selves out on their own ended up at a higher. A higher percentage, actually getting out and being exposed to less because of their own individual efforts in the control group. Trying to get out of there so while it says that the programmes need some tweaking, it shows that the its counter narrative, that these kids aren't trying and that are not- seating to get out there, they are pushing super hard to make something of themselves and it and our cultural, dear. Is they all of these kids aren't doing things just turn into drugs in there just dealing? And surprisingly there not a twelve percent of the cap, is raised in Baltimore in this study ever see and these are the worst neighbours is east and West Baltimore ever spent a moment on the streets doing increments activity. Twelve percent staggering, I may have shocked, I feel dumb because

did the same things, a jolly saw their exposed to rank, but it's not their fighting out like crazy and worth once stopping them from coming to fruition, will not us society were responsible right like so. What are we here's? The thing is like how much effort is finally being done to try to fix this mean how many people are actually think about how much money is actually being spent to try to fix us. It seems There are so many problems in the world that the car and trade on bad neighborhoods or cry written neighborhoods low on the list of things. The world's worried about the polar ice caps are melting, polar bears, a drowning. You know what this is So much shit were worried about. On top of that, there are trying hard is held to keep its weight as though it will trying hard government. Are in Baltimore, for example. Theirs is this patent. It thing that professor from Morgan State Laurent Brown is really.

So the ESA and tracks it all down. But there's a white EL, we called the White Ellen Baltimore goes down through the rich neighbourhood and comes across to the other, rich neighborhoods by the bay and then there's the black butterfly, which comes off to the side issues Baltimore most butterfly wings, dispersing out poverty and black people in the city. What this is in every single aspect that you're gonna find. Where that where the money goes for schools, where the bus routes are where the free buses, like the white neighbours, have a free bus and the black neighborhoods have to pay for their bus? Yes, so we all these things that no matter what you think of this white out and this black butterfly come to fruition. On where resources are allocated more problems. How is that possible that why people don't have to pay for the bus unemployed, people do. That seems ridiculous. Will you let me tell you that the date it's why ever become a reason, because the neighborhoods knows so they're not serving the white people their serving those upper class.

Neighbourhood, but is it in? Is that a tax issues, this property acts issue where they spent money for the buses as all born or cities monies. So how the fuck are they justify that the they just do it like Nobody cares. I mean it's it's so people should follow its abbe, more dark on twitter. He he lays out in so many different avenues. You you just have to be willing ignorance and I realise that this is going on at be more dios- see that's that's in Saint now, how much of it is dealing with prison guards, unions and and police unions they're trying to keep business as usual, because that keeps people employed. Well, that's a cigarette, portion and you're, seeing that within our aim Lucy, and that, with this please unions, and so the question on union, where links Even then they dont have these bad intentions. Would they have is job preservation?

think comes back to those incentives and disincentives. So there are fighting for their and that's all there thinking what we want jobs. You want safer conditions. I want to make or that this is a big company that blows up so they're gonna put their money towards politicians that support them, and that's just the way it is as Wade's always been as long as we have money in politics, you can't get away from the wear them transparent example. That is marijuana that we ve on time and time again, with a million different studies that marijuana is not dangerous or if it is dangerous, the danger that it poses is so minimal. It's so small that it consenting adults, should be able to do whatever the fuck they want with it, and yet Listen guard unions and police unions still lobby to keep that drug laws exactly the same way. They are because then shores need a certain amount of guards. Certain amount of police officers, that's cool or intuitive it mean that's, that's dangerous, for a society, because that sets up this

us versus their mentality, where it does need to be where your tap telling people there's a certain forbidden, p and that they are not allowed to use. We ve decided this week, keep it this way. Even those completely illogical, even though we know the history of it and we're gonna, do it simply because people want to keep their jobs instead of trying to figure out why other jobs? Is people can do like this shouldn't there be away. You could take some of these people that a prison guards or police officers, give them a job with a commensurate income. That's involved in being communities something positive something that setting up community programmes mean how you guys are cops, are also in the martial arts or in a fitness or into something else, or you know anything where they could teach people in these two finally set up community centres and give people high paying jobs, to establish good environments for development and for growing and give people a chance to pigs,

those two, maybe one of these things that could be these pass. It you were talking about. I mean that I have museum but have zero objections that meet that that's a great way of going about it and cannabis is obviously these hiding example of complete a logic. They just did a new study where they tracked people for thirty years. You know it health problems. I found what ginger vitus bad breath they re. Just in browser teeth it got. There has been much hippies didn't breasts, donkey, breath, hippies less s, personality people say they said the same thing. I got that right, because there are many segment of the population there and it doesn't have anything to do with the cannabis. That's learn so we know without a doubt that that that's the case, but what we can do so say you still want to do that and we don't have to change in a sort of get him away from a job or even though that's that's pride, the biggest chunk, that's fucking, everything up as the drug war but if we spend that money instead of incarcerating them, we can spend the money in education. Sir

for every million dollars that spent fighting the drug war. On the supply side. There is a one hundred kilogram reduction of supply, so if you have the and the killer grams of cooking come over the border, if you fight it with force, you fight the supply side then you get a ten grand with a telegram reduction. If you spend that same million dollars on the demand side, educating people, you have a reduction of a hundred kilograms wow. So we that's enough versus from. I don't know it, so they can look it up. It's it's really easy to find a right away. That's very logical donor, but it makes sense to me so so we know that if you just educate people ends, tobacco is a shining example of that is. Tobacco rates have gone down like crazy. Now, let's take the Hare Carter situation out of the large part of that has been because of education, so we educate people out of drugs, educate people like they say all time if heroines on Amazon right now to U water

now I dont know ordered Jane gentlemen. Heroin freak loves, it gets bunch. Different styles mixes em up so with prohibition. The message this up and we know that- and when you have prohibition you're not determining what happens to the drugs or We're doing is determining who is distributing the drugs because they will be distributed. The question is: is it the government and I e the people doing the distribution or is it the black mark did the gangs in the mafia. Well, as long as it's under prohibition is the black market, the gangs and the mafia, we we literally no that's, there's nothing to discuss. And yet we continue with this attitude The actual as omen denial that that's kind of its runs through out our society, America, o speaking no

but the guns were dealing with the same thing. Words is constant. We have evidence, we can prove things empirically and we still just continue to do the opposite. For four reasons. I just can't get my my wrapped round lake its work. I feel like I'm fighting denial, and it's been like a year that fighting this denial and talking on radio shows constantly. But yet you a couple months ago, we what the internet and the FBI director is pushing. The Ferguson effect in this is like you, how do we capacity and I think they were due to two completely different subjects- right the gun, Control subject is very different subject than trying to figure out how to elevate people in bad neighborhoods, uncontrolled subject? Is you know

look at the statistics of how many Americans have guns how many rounds of ammunition there are how many armed people there are in this country, and then you look at how many crimes or how many gun, shootings or its relatively small, very small, we're dealing with me. Massive numbers: people complete yeah, I mean if you. These three million that that's ok, this three hundred million plus people in this country. So if you look at this, this blip on the map where every few months someone goes fuckin crazy, kills bunch people if we really had an armed problem in this case. Three the logic that the Anti gun control people use would be that you would see Waymore shootings and you would see them all. The time If we really had a gun control, probably have so many armed people, it was a real issue, but the issue. They try to say about picking a team here, but

they try to say is that what we're dealing with just a massive numbers of people, massive numbers of people, the number three hundred million is so hard for the average person like you, were I to wrap our head around what that means in terms of the volume the sheer vote people and how many guns are out there. This is many MRS Morgan's and there are people in this country which is even more insane and the the people that own these guns, for the most part are law abiding citizens. It don't do anything wrong. Why take away their rights because some like this asshole in Orlando, goes fuckin crazy and kills. Fifty gay people deserve a couple premises there, what was that they have a right to that weapon right which argued in the data they dont. Ok. The second amendment is clear: well regulated, militia literally clear. It says it in black and white, well

militia, and even if we go to pass it on bare arm sure, even if we go past that forget that I'm not a big fan of the cost, intuition and leaning on, because the world is changed dramatically, we're in a whole new situation, rethink with the evidence that we have now, let's not rely on the document. That's that's parchment somewhere, decaying rights, written with a feather right that Why that they made it amendable. So the first thing is that they have the right down there. And the second is that that numbers acceptable. I Is that what you're trading in there is? What are you getting? So if you haven't waging where they can have these guns. So what are you benefiting What are you losing tell me it is a society we benefit from here. And guns and rifles, while the people that have been able to protect themselves against dangerous crime, the people that have been able to stop people breaking in their home, stealing their property harming them first,

really or protecting their love. So when you talk about ratios, there's thirty thousand hand going crimes in America every year right, that's it the document. Of the various shootings? Thirty thousand so our I was way more. So if we take the percentage of people that defended themselves, you got five to ten cases a year like that, doesn't actually occur, but what are they defending themselves against those people with hand, guns and rifles so during your trapped in the circular logic, where you needed going because I have a gun and then event we Jamie says with those farmers have a gun I want to go to, and we know where that goes. We literally no it keeps getting. More and more and more now. If we had this perpetual society where everyone has everything and everything's perfect. But that's just not gonna happen. We're gonna have strife in MILAN

these guidelines are concentrated in a few people's hands that have two hundred guns. You know do they have fifty guns. I know do that. Fifty got sino due to us. So many guns just talking about you, how the fucker my buddy, as somebody guns, you know how many guns he has great, so they of those parties, a giant, seven, tall any as a hundred and fifty thousand fuckin guns, so they had, they have them in a safe, for they have them out. Whirl America, the with their known even like interacting with people like to have the strife while he's they are a firearms enthusiast and he is also a guy with a squeak, clean criminal record. What's the argument, against him being able to be a firearms. Enthusiasm possess all these guns because of what is done to our society. You, he just once they have something I've died. I went on in particular are not, but I'm just saying because he's my friend right, so anybody any body. Why are you gaining

there's an equation in one one sided equation: we have. Thirty thousand hang on victims. We have of a society that gripped by fear. We have dude. Second go get in air fifteen days later, light up a night club and do a hate crime. We know that that's gonna, I've been, and we know that as the future progress is that that this hundreds the casualties of this shooting is going to be superseded by a bigger shooting that that's gonna happen, because we gotta break them. Accurate re zone when we're gonna have more more guns at keep coming here and keep coming so that, on the right hand, side the equation your left hand, side equation for for having guns the argued It is my like them. Well, there's also, the argument that a well armed society is a polite society and Nigeria, where people than it had guns in that night club, they would have been able to prevent that crime by taken that guy on the re cops, I mean is the same thing in Denver like if there were cops there, but the cops Ruddy shop Mozilla cops geared to a point where it was near a hostage situation. I mean I don't know the details about Florida, so it's or its, but

The minutes were true, cops wouldn't get killed right. They have the big Army, that's what our streets. So, if more guns. We keep having more costs with more and bigger guns than it would stop right, because the cops the cops right, rolling armoured vehicles with a our fifteen's too combat juveniles Madame and more during uprisings, don't more cops, shoot more criminals than criminal shoot cops. Dont, more workshops kill more people. We are trying to commit crimes than those people can, of course, cobbles data. That's predicated on the premise that they're trying to shoot the cops and absolutely not right trying to get away some of on shore. The Europe we are actively trying to cops are super some cause. You got a really s reign, the cops are getting shot. Would they do get shot right? But what I'm saying is yes, but isn't sort of an argument that none of being well when there has you bad, when there is one guy with a rifle that he purchased legally

a bunch cops and a budget cops become still be shot. Right, but a lot of one, but a lot Those guys that you're talking about this one guys like three member, the North Hollywood shootout, well I've ever famous armed to the fucking, gills and wearing body armor and all that shit? They were the cops we're just so our guns, forest fire power source or answers that they get more firepower right now does not say no demands arising and keep having. This is one of the reasons why these cops are getting shot, they're getting shot and killed in that situation, particular because their walk around with thirty eight revolves around. I will mean a glorious zoning shot because that guy has armor and Falcone aren't aims. Aim this website is not. Data are inadequately armed, whether they be they in their handgun would be perfectly fucking. Fine. If we didn't have a our fifteen saturating our streets without go, I don't even yet they are fifteen. He had something like that as already shit. That's all you can do so

that doesn't mean you by the way, the same guns and m16 folks. It's this its military weapons, the same gun that was created a thing was created in the fifties. To deal with the eighteen. Forty seven there's an HBO part Series on real sports suddenly they talked about it there. They were talking about a our fifteen, but Two to three can do that damage. That's a semi ATO and we get caught up in the assault, weapons right, rent, Yes, all weapons are gonna. Keep you haven't better aim for keeping a higher magazine capacity for me more and more reliable weapon, but of a hunting rifle with a time magazine clips us two to three and is a semi on MAC. Is gonna. Do the exact same level right of damage that we're talking about so my position on gun control, is extremely simple: you want your guns, for these other things like say: hunting, men, bolt action, rifles and shot guns tiger We think that you can that's on your own, the programmes

that they want to achieve, can all be accomplished by shot guns and bold action. Rifles Oh yeah. I see that argument, but I also see the argument that hunters would use in that situation that you few limit the amount of rounds that a guy can have in his gun or the ability to fire off round quickly your limiting their ability to make a quick follow up, shot animal that would kill that animal yet so if you have some way, that's that dedicated right. I don't have a problem with that personally, So if you have some whether we want to establish this high standard so say so, we super high standard. Were this guy. He can get his big gun that he whose is in his well trained doin and he's gone through a super long process of backgrounds and he's all checked out that I dont have the objection to that but like say his gun get stolen. You don't get it anymore. You're done

So you have to maintain this high standard in order to have such extreme privilege and finally that, like people to have C4 and explosives year, there are people that can legally carry debt cordon C4 blow a buildings there, not a big problems, the society using their debt cordon C4 too, to hurt people. So, if that that's it, a unique class of energy yeah I suicide, and so you think there should be more stringent testing and background checks on people that are getting guns yeah, especially those kind of high powered ones or handguns. We, you get caught up a lot in the high power because the capable of that mass destruction, but it's the hang that cause the fear. City every single data so easily conceive yeah, that's the whole problem is the consumer that you can just pop it out and use it. You don't know who has white and so every becomes a threat because you have the small death of I saw you that anybody can do anything. It's just like we gotta go back.

That equation like what is, on the other side of the equation of thirty thousand hangings and three hundred and play mass shootings per year, the others the equation is: is that ridiculous idea? I mean if you figure out. Something for me There then I like collecting guns- and I think, they're cool- it's my right than that. I'm willing to hear it. I just don't here. In argument beyond that, while the argument. Is that a person who is not a criminal and a person who doesn't have any ill will in their hearts and just enjoys firearm should be able to have them. Just like you should be able to have a truck, they could just drive through a fuckin crowd of people with, if you wanted to yet, but so that the argument there that you can have the truck in the truck above of harm, will so just like a knife, but a knife has driven other uses, so on the other side of that equation. When this disable. Would we need a knife, four votes to chop up food? It's too

a skinny dear. It's to do a thousand other things that are or something like that is for one purpose and one purpose: only kill human being well, those, whereas design form of people, use them for hunting them so that they have a better rifle used and that for a while did the thing about her with. Those is that you can pull the trigger many touchy dude. You do like for a hog hunting and things like that, their there, a lot of people actually prefer them shirt. So let's say you even when you do that again, we're dogma that higher last person and so class hog hunter, the higher class. That's pretty sure it s. Not an actual big league you wanna, go shoot! It anyone should those those animals tat, go check it out from near that parking wreck and go use jabbered out now check it You said you'd want to use it right when it when you mean check it out right so say you to start an armoury. Mcgann

armoury that who runs the governor neurons. Close good law could be the private. The private rifle range. Ok, well. That's how it is in a lot of places in Europe why I know how to do that. We literally other countries have done this Australia's the shining example. They had one mass shootings at fuck this have nonsense right, but you can get a rifle in Australia, Gay, and this is something that gets bandied about. Many tat. Actually, I do some research, it's not imply, While the get rifles for hunting in Australia, you get super hard, it's difficult layer, but, Strictly also has less people than California in an enormous chunk a land here, but we have other countries take China. China's four times our population doesn't doesn't even hit the radar screen on the amount of a prison people they have imprisoned or the amount of violence they have. That's true, but China is what was until really recently it's a communist dictatorship that was run with an iron fist

I mean think about Tienanmen Square and what happens when people rebelling against the government there. It's two completely different sort of culture. The different. What happens here, though? We rarely, though I mean, if you stand up against governments, can happen to you. What's not just standing up against a government a mean they did the people, they don't have much power over their. Neither do we it's an oligarchy. We live in it oligarchy, like we ve put That's another thing we prove so Princeton did a study where they tracked nineteen thousand cases of law. That we're going alone in going through Congress. So what they found out is that public opinion on whether a log its past or not, for instance, gun control which, over eighty percent of and our aim members agree with increase, gun, control and background checks, and things like that, we don't get it passed it Congress. At all, it doesn't have any bearing on public opinion any bearing whether log its past, but if you have donors that care

the log in past, then it's gonna get past, and even when public sentiment is completely against the law being pass. If the public too, if the donors want that past. They stole over thirty percent chance of getting law passed. I think The area is trying to do is they are trying to prevent. Slippery slope they're trying to establish laws and keep them in place so that establish rights that are already in place right, keep them in place because they worry that if you start increasing background checks, if we start ramping up any sort, restrictions on gone owners that its slip slope their wooden they'll, never get back. They'll, never get the freedom back. But what I mean I don't know that freedom is we're all afraid to go somewhere. We don't have freedom in this gun, saturated country, where olive and re, when not well alone, nor not no, not we're not it. He'll think people

free. No, I don't think people generally have been rising energy, inviting to keep the guy on you're saying we're all afraid, as if every day when you go to the movies, you worried about a mass you'd in everyday. When you go to the wall and we're not afraid we travel freely occasionally like this happen in their horrific in their terrifying, but people are generally afraid we're not all afraid to do things. I just don't think that's true so. Why, then, what we all want to protect this sum while the arrays position, the energy This position is that liberals, Democrats, whatever they want to take away your right to own a gun. The energy does not want that. So spend all their money, they do other lobbying they do everything they can to stop any new restrictions from passing and to stop anyone who is trying to take away guns right-

so the way you frame. That is, that they are to protect their rights and their want to preserve this thing, but I dont know. I see it that way: a lot of people with those what people that are fighting again, Scoggins like so so me, I have guns I'd like shooting. I enjoy it, I'm fucking! I made a career out of it right, but at one point time, I did enough work research and enough understanding that my ultimate goal is that we have a sea for society and that we protect people, but the way we protect people empirically, it's not. These guns. Nobody has the gun crime that we have no body, the entire world is a developed country. Has the gun crime. When incarceration rate in everything that we do. We are the worst example in that in the developed world of how to do this. Every other example is a better example than what we do, but were continually trying to stay, entered

into this seem more that we know is failing. I want to protect people and the elderly says that an order protect people, we can't have hand, guns and assault rifles. Sacho said to them a sombre afford again but we can't have a semi automatic rifle was out there like crazy that in able society to have that risk. I mean those those only other ended, that Strasbourg is a nine year old girl whose bleeding to death in the city- and I just I don't want to give my router people, but the idea that you want to go fuck issue, something I just don't give a shit about that when you see the destruction close to you is suddenly Gabby Gifford can gopher forgone control after it touches. You know or something like that whenever it took did you suddenly we start the care, if too right. Now, a mass gunman comes and starch.

The rest is building and they ve been killed. Jimmy we're all going to care a hell of a lot more. Why Jamie? How come you don't like it? What a didactic Jamie under the Bible? Please nobody shoe Jamie and I think I think we would all take a slightly different perspective. Five months. I think you're right and I think that's an issue with all sorts of crimes and that's also an issue with poverty and bad communities. Is that it's not touching the people that are they just want to be safe. Those people are getting off the street or my way I think, right in that regard, I mean I don't know if there is a perfect dancer to getting rich three hundred million guns or control. I don't think you can do. I guns, I swear not make an air like, let's stop making so one of my idea, loud gun companies without them from making a doctor making. How dare you are making a weapon of death I care about what they want, so we know funds can last hundreds of years if you take care of them right. So if we stop making

Their value all go up and ever get it concentrated, and I the libertarians, because I got all the rich people, but also the guns I get it whatever they can use, and we know that so, let's make more valuable, so they're not worth two hundred dollars on the street so that a gun disrespect before drug war. Beef can lead that should I wanna, have you sit down with someone who's a gun? Proponent? Good luck! Would you mean good life been here, for a year, doing this day in and day out, challenging everyone from SAM Heiress to whoever they're, not gonna, they're, not going to do this. The evidence is on my side than I do what you're not going to have a debate, because it certainly would deftly said to set it up. Ok, mock set out my friend less than a hundred Bertone by the union. Get to do his plea. I'll get us. He mused give me that push back, that other people need here and if you, right on a position, I will absolutely change. Ok, war! Deafening set that up. Then I want to bring in just cause. Justin's very articulate and dumping

Annex II is a giant, does have a thousand fuckin guns from whatever he's a nice guy he's very nice, guys, good, and he is a tiger said, and firearms enthusiasts, but also a really nice guy. That has no criminal record, never done anything wrong and very articulate very smart, very well read, but he's gonna say that people I can show them guns right and if he's right, while he is right in using every little gas and he's a wrong rock and do like to break into his every once in a while you're going to need to do like him to keep down the door right. Ok, we know that is so. I went are you, if he's got to say he needs? need this elite Members of society that, like Swat teams, are something that they can handle these situations. Of course we do well he's a cop. Additive shooter does contests and re. So they will. They should shoe. Like me, will, I am sure, he's right, like a vacant handle it their professional lives as him? You're not gonna, get pushed back from society. Because nothing will happen, but it is what I'm saying is it he's not doing wrong and something he enjoys like when?

we decide and not just put in this house. There are not taken a stance because I don't understand it myself. Of people saying that I'm anti gun or pro gone or now I'm a pretty neutral on this, I also own guns, but I see the problems I definitely see when something like this happens in Orlando and some crazy fuck Go and just shoot up a nightclub and kill all these people without a real problem. I dont know how to solve that real problem. I'm sure some people would say concealed Peck carry permits some of these people in the night Bob could shoot out that it, then you get Firefox its clear categories, gunfight in a nightclub, more people getting a shot, but not only there. Most of the people that get involved in his gun rights will be their first gunfight, so you're gonna, fuckin shit pants. You gonna get tat panic. You gonna messy gonna hit people still be alive no one on wages. In now, It is not as simple as via gun, shot gun, eat. We wouldn't meal appointed people and if you pull the trigger

you be lucky. You hits on right in front of your. Where are we was that shooting only recently was out of college and they were true Marines, on banks on the college campus with weapons and they didn't, engage because they may said, hey look. I was only gonna. Make the situation worse, the cops we're going to know who I am, if I had my weapon out by, I could have missed and done some thousand two guys that were in their actual right state of mind, a war armed decided that engage, was more dangerous and it's actually empirically more dangerous than if you engage your moral. Likely to die and you something's just You're gonna shoot somebody else or the situations that can be resolved. We we literally no, that's people have done this. They ve done studies where they try to take people and like simulated and it never pans out,

but that's engaging with an instance where you're not involved with you are involved. You absolutely have to engage in any had shot like a year if, if they know that building earthly lurk bombing answer them, you have to run So all the evidence says that view run that your best bet for safety in liquid. We want to do that right because that's a bitch move, please I'm dying. Bring about some issues in a more bed. I'm a hundred or semi. There's like this delusion of Hiroshima that somebody's going to save the day and sure you may find that happen every so often it limit. Have you not scenes of us just allow movies. It happens. All the time is a problem that is up Linda, super, probably illegal shoe people and allay while their running into lots. Also, like we ve developed this sort of idea of what goes down in a gunfight based on fiction. Based on reality, the amount of people that have actually been exposed to a bullet. A live thing is so small sound,

oh yeah, realise out loud that is shut shoot with her headphones in your whole life go ahead to start clock in all fifteen rounds with it without your protection, oil in Europe. Ring and you can even understand what's going on, you have to be well trained in that environs. And understand, the cops are even in their. The front I may get a real gun battle because issue with earful plugs into everything: the verse I'm their shooting they're gone hearing the sound and everything else, so he I mean you got those people like by the thousand ring court with doing fast him. I don't think there to get any gun crimes and I I think they can handle situations, but these are at a certain segment that needs to live up to a high standard will not only that those people that have been trained and they ve developed this understanding of firearms at so deep most people just don't get to that. It's like, the average person watches you have sea fight and thinks they can take someone's ass and then, if you fighting

a train Marshall artists, you're fucked, like you really don't know what you're doing that's kind of the same thing and weak here, someone who really like my friend just and really understands firearms versus the. Average person it goes and buys a gun and things will I'm safe. Now I got this gun maybe maybe maybe but Testing say that you're more likely to shoot a family member in and in a fight or yeah suicide, which you know the other thing. Lotta people, it's a wonderful analogy. I love that you you do that, because it meets perfect analogy almost for Emma May and who can handle a weapon as well. But what about undue confidence and perfect so like here that here's the thing I've always went to tell people that feel that way we can. I can tell you you- can have and when you right Now- and we can set this up in the morning- and I can tell you- walk away-

You have all these things. Are they just again, Mme fight? It's it's not gonna go as you fucker planned it. I promise. So what we are witnessing look as far as like you're gonna take could you you're not gonna, be able to protect it, and you know I'm coming so then wire actually think you're safe, but you have, a gun on you, you're, just as long as you're fighting against the inferior opponent or you're in this situation, where you have distance- and you have all these things like that again, Mme Fight, it's it's not gonna go as you fucker planet. I promise, so. Where are we saying that, as far as like you're gonna take the gun away, Galaxy say you wanted to have a concealed weapon when you re inside you standing in line at the bank you're going about your day as normal? I could tell you some point time: I'm gonna get that gun from you and I'll get it areas with these about surprise. So when the banker, we're comes in. What's, unsurprisingly town, we gonna get it sure I've. Just you twenty four hours while be fucking job

Deb on average twenty four hours, even think about the life. You know like birds, they are you deaf, we would be well. Exited adventure, labour! That's the thing is your bigger than me. You can be ready for it still, I'm sorry, you just knock and wit, because just can come out of nowhere. So when people have These guns. Are you like really gonna disarming people are something no more they by also be if you learn how to foster works. So me goes my gun on punched him in their fuckin failure to come from I knew you wouldn't be standing in lying idle, where's. My gun regular army, when you're right here so from behind they. Gonna grab show you can you ever has, but how hard to get a gonna have altered the certain holsters origin and the host or worse its cake? What one holster where, if you yank on it, doesnt work with triple retention. Oh yes, We're going to see your gun. If you have one of those cases are pretty darn big. What if I'm gonna puffy coat? sure. I guess you can forget about it. I'm gonna! We let them, but you just now

actually safer. I know a keeps several guns guns autumn. All the time and to knives got a knife in his boot. He keeps several guns. Are Malta has been hit NED Lunchtime, so what is this? Some people think AEGIS You can't, you can't think that's what's gonna make you save at your mind, set its you're issue, Awareness of your surroundings assure billion, make logical decision, but you're talking about a very specific case, where someone's trying to take your gun away, right, but testimonies you're, not you're in a bank robber. Even meet a guy goes on there's gonna be one there, as we have so. Wake of big thing of policing is You don't get into like Jujitsu kind of wrestling matches because of that gun right, because no matter what fight you're in there always a gun there and it's the same thing with non cops right. You don't want to get a fight as a cop, because if that the evidence shows statistically

that if they get gun from you, they're gonna use it on you right. That's creepy, no different from you. If they get their gun from me right use it on. You re right so Why would you want to be in a fight with somebody? Will that's a wrestling match right Are you saying that? But I can assure you that the gun you do sing that potential are you dying and there's a high possibility? You didn't have it before you literally or making yourself more at risk. I mean the statistics are clear on this, that if you bring a gun through this fight the odds are against you even higher now, because mostly with bring even if you re a knife to a fight, a significant portion of the We will get the night take away from baggage used autumn. I guess I am cases we ve been where you're trying to figure out a state We call it come to find out the very vague tried to do the stabbing, but they they should take it followed and they got stared themselves. So once you introduce that that potential, your more data,

well your self, but this is again you're talking about non trained individuals and it sort of goods produced backed and I'm not gonna sponsored abilities, negative mighty hard on those really trained people. I get that that that's fine and that's like it's not a right at that point. It's a privilege! So it's like driving a car driver cars are right as a privilege. So if these people on earth that privilege so be it, but it becomes a problem. Doesn't it when a really fuckin crazy person earns that privilege may have someone hasn't done anything yet Kramer There's been several people that have committed mass shootings, but didn't do anything before they did that shooting. I mean it oh, so you still left with those you still decided as a society that one that's the equation you're willing to accept that amount. Even though lesser amount. You decide to set that amount and if we can just moved to a point where we can set the lesser amount that would be wonderful but were were continually accepting in ever increasing amounts as more

buying guns more, they were buying animal. So what is the solution that, in your eyes? Well, I would like stop may affect I would like hang guns and rifles to be banned, and maybe they have to take a long time, not rifle just just semi on back like brand me- and you can own them anymore now, let's like shit, answering so turkish data becomes a privilege, so like guns, your twitter account skin attacked or I have, as other you fucking lever, you're, never Dagmar gun. So you have to be those people that earn that privilege. The idea that it's all right- it's just, I think that you think we could call a lot in that, just even if you will but you said earlier that I think the evidence is there that it's actually not your right, but if it is like, can we re

think that, and what is the second amendment? Read it exactly Jamie in its form, please so weakened, but an again. The idea that keep the constitution in the bill of rights exactly intact. Some shit that was created hundreds of years ago before any of the variables that we have to deal with in society today, whether its variables, Privacy, electronic communications with it's a variables about the power and the ability that guns have two means we're dealing with a totally different world. They made the shit back and people had muskets. We really need to consider that and by the way they had just gotten done fight off a totalitarian regime and had expand it and become their own country. I commend him on the United States constitution. Reads: a well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people too, and bear arms shall not be infringed, see that's pretty clear the rights of the people.

And bear please in they fringed yeah, but a well related militia being necessary to this security of a free state, the right of the people even bare arm shall not be infringed if they are a well regulated militia. Theirs saying if it saying Kapital Letter a a well regulating militia being necessary to securing the free state so their establishing that it is important that you, have a well regulated militia being necessary, well regulated. That's the weird term were regulated Malaysia. What does that mean national guard? Is what they're saying, though, that, because lessening the right of the people to keep and bear arms rotational in view of this state, though so the eye dear that you're, the fight with the people of the state mean they're, just people not because you, but that's what the states Army we People left the country right measures is a free egg, a free state. What that means is that the worried that we might be invaded and taken over by England than those in government or the government

it, gives a federal government right. So that's all state being able to defend itself against the fat oh government, because they ve still were lingering with that that that, from Britain I don't know, they meant when they said a free state. Is that what they could pull that up again? So I please it's only intellectual It's kind of weird arguing about this, because If we had to do this over again mean this is obviously something that was established as we said a long time ago. If we had to do this over again, if we had stably, new new amendments. Or new rights. I don't know how who had rate, but that's a propositional phrase, a well regulated militia. That means everything after that is in regards to a well organised. So if I said, and then Joe and everything in their centres would be about Joe. It's a propositional phrase. I mean that that's exactly what they mean well well, well regulated militia, meaning that there is

bunch militia, meaning regular people, civilians gathering together to form some sort of a makeshift army yet being necessary to the security of a free state. Now when they say a free state. This is back when we were there for three states or such like down the thirteen isn't serbian. Thirteen. The first ones were thirteen right. The first initial stays the right of the people to keep em bare arm shall not be infringed, sees fuckin. Nobody talks like dad. You fucked you know today in twenty sixteen, if you wrote a sentence like that, Billy, hey Bitch, what you trying to say, you know You know, I mean I mean people thou shalt not four score and sixteen years ago might speak normal bitch. It's the right,

of the people to keep him bare arm shall not be infringed, is the one that everybody clings to the people of the free state. Those says that it then, naturally what they meant work as they did that back then you know they. They formulated those those rights, but they're saying shall not be infringed. The right of the people remember, The federal government shall not infringe that right against the state now so saying as a state. It saying the people too protect the security of the free site, the right of the people to keep him I shall not be infringed the people of the state right What they're saying is that, knowing for repositioning. We gotta do the carcase story, evidence that we all everybody out. That's right! That's right! A well reg they demolish it being necessary. Others establishing that it will again, if you anger right now, I'm here for good word: more Congress, you fuckin pussies tragic, my going. We are just trying to we're trying to unpack this amendment,

a well regulated militia. Being necessary to the security of a free state, so they say was that we need a well regulated militia to make sure that we don't get taken over by tyranny. The right of the people keeping bare arm shall not be in France. I don't know man, I mean I'm not a constitutional caused by any stretch of the imagination, Norma scholar of the bill of rights. That seems pretty clear. The right shall not be infringed. Okay, so I'll give let me say we give you the the right of appeal because what they mean is that the people can hold the arms into there need it to form this militia over. That's weird that grannies. What sounds like to withhold the arms? Yet so the people right of the people to keep and bear arms, rates of they have the guts right, and so they can have them. It's just that so that they can formulate a well regulate militia later, if needed, does gonna be like that as well. You think so, the right of the

but to keep him bare arm shall not being right right of the people. Have the guns reforms aim and then the idea could be that they met that you can have guns. In case you need to formulate the militia to fight tyranny. It could be read, thou in case Yeah yeah goods is not giving you any options. Sang shall not be infringed, scrolled downwards, and saying what is the second amendment actually set as exacting outlets for more is what is the definition of modern definition of the rights granted by the second amendment. Is there any like sort of legal acts, bring our bodies? read on this thing. It seems like these cocksucker. Wrote that you have made it so we're right, but even if you can get em like they certainly worth talking about our fifteen's and they words: envisioning a government with five thousand nuclear weapons right than they and envisioning. Three hundred million people in the eye prozac that idea fighting the government just really seems weird:

So what you're saying there so I was in the Marine corps What you're saying, then, is that if they make a wall by trumpets and the office- and he says, are that's it we're going to crack down on our people, youth that. I'm gonna come after you for that. Come on come on, some people. The people in our military will not do that. These generals are going to do that and I did a commander their members. It did you have a military coup. You probably will but you will have some people are willing to comply, but you are saying that you are free, ends and brothers and sisters that are in the armed forces or going to turn their guns on their friends and family guy fuck me that's interesting, because you could make the same argument about the police you're, saying that your friends and brothers and sisters that are in the police don't turn their guns and civilians. They do they do But that's a small amount of people that are affected, so, if you're talking about affecting the entire country than those people will have that personal effect, because it's not just there

turning on their own family right there, not just learning the same argument than a small amount of non compliant people would be. The ones of the military would have to go against. Yeah me Guess if, if you have that kind of scenario, shore kindly saving their literally say they were to come, take all the guts run right there, when you do a by force. Your also saying this huge force for one the military's not operate on our soil, but they already do thirdly, rolling the National Guard through cities. If you look at it gently sort of national origin, Well, yeah well regulated militia yeah. Look I mean when you look at the tanks in some of the key, the Fuckin military the goals that they're using in some of these riot, Joel militarization, and only if this is a separate us. A seminar with a separate argument, but it becomes military, then mean you're. Talking

a war machine short that something is clearly wasn't envisioned, and so I would rather you didn't open up back ass. Another FARC lenses, Owen Rant yeah. This is it It's a very unusual sort of a debate I see both sides are absolutely sure. Both just remember that equation, though the Belsize out equation, where they can be logical. One sided that equation is deaf well and the other argument would be that protecting yourself against death is a right, but we know that if you want to have a safer society, if you want to live in Australia, have they re the goddamn guns? ever Australia's so different than adults. I just thought I'd. Let us more! I don't buy that both we buy it. This way by this way

how many mass shootings of urban in California beside San Bernardino, take San Bernardino out of the mixed. How many that's? What's out in black people, in the hood that we don't hear about mass shootings in daily? this country down so you're gonna get him every year a week or two weeks in California. Really get em every week or two weeks, and you still here about it, because your talk it because they happen in content and gives a shit right, endured. You're talking about people who are criminal, shooting other criminals, and that's one of the arguments that gun control anti gun control. People use against people that talk about how many get shot is how many people like when you look at the new where's the people to get shot in this country. There also activating the number of people that are shot by law enforcement officers. They don't, oh sure, that not only make account is how they want to report the FBI. The guardians figured out how many people got shot? The twenty fifty is the first year we figured out how many people were shot by police in this country. Ok, but that is

twenty sixteen and we do calculate no, the newspaper does it the federal government or that nobody does. You look up statistics of how many people were killed by guns every year. They do include bad guys killed by cops, no Y know So there is an argument that TED Nugent don't count as homicides either, but we're not talking about says you're talkin. If they kill him, doesn't count, doesn't count no the count against our homicide. Can't we could consider just what is not fight homicides, don't but deaths, they don't think they use the word homicide when their counting firearm down interesting point, because this is what a TED Nugent and Peers Morgan, I can't believe amusing TED Nugent. More money, more appears or but but his argument with TED Newt. He got shredded argument because it went into it on armed with facts and Nugent spews. This out every point he can and by the way he would argue with you all day shore, but that's that's all.

Crazy person is allegedly level crazing, that's not going to other certain people willing to call out from time to time that every one of you think tat you just crazy what he would thinks crazy bottom we ve seen in talk like you, are clear, Crazy, he's going to argue that until the end of the UK is one of these people, you can put the evidence in front of him day in and day out until just move the goalposts move, the goalposts in no one's interest it and have an argument of some. I'm just gonna continually move goalposts,

about all the food move. Go pulse was the one thing that he makes coherent arguments about is, in fact against gun control. What would we got there? Jim? I'm pathway looking through something, but I got this from the Washington Post this article, it starts with the year of one thousand. People nearly being shot by police at sound is annoying, but it says here they start to compile a record of every fatal, please shooting in the nation as of two and twenty fifty something no government agency had done. It started after Michael Brown. Shooting start looking into it premium people did that goddamn commies or whatever their washed imposed by the poster, sought to compile a record. This is a most imposed, the guardian started, but it says the posts to compile a record of every fatal. Please shooting the nation, two thousand fifteen something no government agency had done the project began after proof. Police officer, shot and killed. Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri in August, two thousand fourteen provide

Several nights of fire rise, blah blah blah race remains the most volatile flashpoint in any accounting of police shooting. Although black men make up only six percent of the- U S population, they account for forty percent of the Un armed men shot to death by police this year, the post A debate shows in the majority of cases which police shot and killed a person who had attack someone with a weapon or brandished gone. The person who was shot was white, interesting. That's interesting, whereas in the majority of cases in which police shot and killed a person attack some of the weapon, a branch gun person was shot was white, but a huge, disproportionate number. Three and five of those killed after exhibiting less threatening behavior, where blacker hispanic meaningless, valued the life lass of people who were black or hispanic. They were quicker to shoot down with less Threatening behaviour than they would with white people, regardless of regardless of race and more than a quarter of the

the fatal encounter involved officers pursuing someone on foot or by car making chain. Is one of the most common scenarios in the data. That's interesting with interesting, more, why people? But I guess her. I have white more when people its physically white unemployment, assumption population, its prime, we're not right why people are gets getting down. He's got them slowly. Brow people are finding their way into the top we joke about that how what is that movie where everything goes crazy, one, Michael Douglas. No, no. I, like the purge, no, idiosyncrasy yea. So like the silly when we know we know that the more educated someone is go ask if they have rights as soon as you do that you go on now. All this are people, don't have kids, why everybody that poor has poor kids so like that

another reason why we have to educate the label, doubts the counter to overpopulation that when they could the charts and graphs that, when you in industrialized nations, when they come more closer to first world they have less children, China now, but it's also Durazzo fuckin working more grinding, saw necessarily good man might be rob being poor? The bunch can be happy, so we know that the most likely time to get to a shooting, as in a chase. Yes We owe a chase story and we should, like the add up a little bit. Ok, let's this story, there's a story that we just got sidetracked from both the first conversation we're in the middle of talking about it, we never got to it right. So I write We were talking gemini earlier about private, pretty cool in Paypal does up on street maps. So let's go to the eighty higher block of West Pratt with gnashing. Look at it. Ok, really interesting.

Shot on anybody. Who's got their finger. On the sand, but right now ready sent an evil, email or a twitter, but just relax. This is a debate folks the conversation. I know you wish you were here: she could yell at MIKE or how do you set a pretty you ve made a couple of points that I didn't think about that were pretty darn liberal, pretty liberal Fuckin confusing mother fucker? If you're trying to pigeonhole me I am a liberal hippy who owns guns and HANS and loves weed and gay people I loved, I love everybody are currently do. Can we go to face it, Isn t right, so down to the red awning. In turn, around frizzle hub dope is Google maps. It's crazy. We're word travelling, Baltimore right now on Jamie's computers is madness. See and people's license plates and shit. So weird they can do that leaders zoom in the car

becoming a whorehouse is light yeah. They have pursued, go look idea. The Google car drove by renewed just lighten up cigarette faces have Jamie. Ok, so this is a really dilapidated neighborhood in Baltimore. We don't you did necessarily see about we're dealing life d, a space h, o o d. Ok, as I go left, I go down the street. Love it more by the licence. Would talk about Baltimore shot out, my brother, John Rollo, Baltimore, this is one of my ground patrol Mme go there learn how to fight so the story. I could get my look by bearing right because it doesn't seem like don't worry report off. That's! Ok! So you out so start. So when my favorite times ever Batman around us

We were all work. The major K squad, and been assigned a new VIII r o by which is violet repeat offenders target to go after you're gonna hear a lot of these in a lot of chiefs are starting to push this out again, which is the violet repeat: offender, where they are people with, so they they do like this predictive nest there These are the people that were are likely to get shot or likely to do shootings, or something like that. So we want to focus on enforcement efforts on them to get them on. Anything doesn't work, but regardless of what I was doing at the time, and we had a guy set up to a bar and at the bar we knew that this gang would go in and out of this bar, so we had a guy sitting Bert and Van and watch the bark is we are content was a take pitched biotic pitch. Yours document, who is going to try and see some associations a man, another car. We were

pining away just waiting to see what he report may we could follow somebody things like that. Talking in a spent hours were own. Like our ten sitting there, nothing going on and we had a secure channel. So we can just talk back and forth and our radio- and they are talking about sports recital B Soccer baseball games on I give a shit about so everybody's michon bathroom radio, just talk in trying to pass the time and then the guy. What in a covert egos. Finally, here commentaries guides, you shut the fuck up, up the Robin the store. Next to me right now, I'm watching them. I can see that it's a silver thirty eight in a dude hair Robin stored, shut the fuck up and get over there so where they are not all right. So call it out, and these guys runnin into a getaway car around the block and we get behind him. So we're phone

I know this is a fresh robbery and so they got hand guns in the car and everything do they know you fallen? No, so we have a more cars and we're fallen behind him and were in this area, where you have the one district to the left to West southwest, you have the West gesture to northern southern two left, so they call the tried district but work in this area were communications or maybe weird, because these are all different channels. So I'm writing, with sergeant. I was up a detective at the time and say to him get on southern channel. You get on the South West and coordinate that we can call this out I go on radio and on commonly are needed. And thirty one don't southern channel in irregular hockin return fallen, I need a temporary one or the other chat on looking, I'm gonna fuck law, they shut up like owners, their successes attend, three you fuckin asshole, oh ok, xo,

Rio's tete, a tete, thirty one is to this day- has risen emergency. So I get on now and were work. Pointed out. The cars gone west down Barton were were found. We're coming up to the shopping center time left for some sort, of course, full of people. It gets goes through the shopping center and stops at a stop sign, but there's a car in front of it and we're thinking I regret lighted up here, but that car, like it, always moves wreck Susan lights. Of course, you can bet that cars can move right, so we the lights anyway and the car stops front, so they can't get past right. So they our bail out run so. Therefore, even the car one goes one way. One goes back the other way. One goes for one, behind jump out of the car? Because, let's

so I leave my radio by accident. My drop it urging has let let's be as I see a guy running with a gun out of a car, and I'm still like in Jack Rabbit Abode I'm going out of that's one thing, I'll shoot people right. I've get right, I get them, so I take off to get wet without my radio chasen is Don behind the shopping center. The sergeant he forgot to put car park Oh, he knows I dont have my radio. He started a panic about where I'm going to have to dive back into the car to put it on park, so it doesn't hit, but the suspects Car and then the nonsense back in front of them there. The ivory, He goes running, I've, I'm chase behind him and I've got my gone out and I'm running and I'm saying you fuck, it shoot you better start now, but I could tell heat when he's running pure pay like, I had a moment of empathy for him, but you did. He was just like

running with that gun in his hand how you'd better drop it we're right of some. I comes out of the woods for behind the shopping center. It's a fucking caught from South West, who heard us on the radio plainclothes cup, so the guy throws the gun and he tries to three. Up to the roof of building by, like pathetically, does hits the building. In fact, TAT S The guy come out the words I allowed him to get him. My running back, go back and get the gun. You gotta get a gun, First you're smart, because it could it was somebody else's hands or or whatever, and we'll get him back and So at that moment, unbeknownst to me all those districts where, like all core, NATO's. At this moment of of serendipity and policing southern district patrol Kay mopping got one of the guys in western patrol got one of the guys in South West Commander was in the area. Was there in the drug unit? Was their help me and we caught every single person bringing back

Regarding for guidelines, we get everything. Revolt moreover, flocking people we are looking for by mere coincidence, half a gag that we were looking for. Into the bar rob the store that was next to our guy in covert, and we started our case, their agenda being completely successful because we had this huge jumpstart I've, just dumb ass luck that does highlight dumb ass luxury called ten thirty one tenth you ve got to put the car park. You left your radio behind that unless typical that's the way it is, and that's a situation where you do shoot like people shoot. That situation, but think if you think. I have been there for them, I think you have bad. You know there all over the internet, the twitter trawlers and stuff or argument when a gate tries to other cops, only think oh you just talking about a more you ve, never actually done anything. What did you actually do in those of the

situations where you get into the shootings right, we're could have easily shot that guy? Who was running with the gun and that's what the status Ec Show happens a lot of the time that would have dramatically affected me dramatically, affected him and everyone around. But what this kid was doing in the end was being part of a drug deal, trying to do robberies, trying to fuckin eat and survive, and yet we had. Those guys fines. So you have this poverty and you have this fighting for resources and so It shows that to rob the store, into being in these gangs, but if they didn't have those guns, how differently probably quite a bit. So so, when you talk about saturation, we link looking that incident. We got lucky everything, we're fine had potential evolve, Luckily, we were all competent and in that unit, but Sworder thanks,

I was the youngest of the Rocky Commission Slack, but you had four guns rowing around in that situation, Utes England, doesn't do they see you don't see. Other countries like this, where this all could have just went bonkers because we're trying to respond to a situation in a way go after people, put them in cells, because we have this. These and everywhere in their fighting for these resources. But that's where we have to stop and say: why are they here right? What got us to this point? Instead, what we continually Do we just throw that group and in jail and the very next time you took as like six months or take the whole group down. We got everybody federally indicted, but as soon as we that the next group just steps up, because we didn't take a moment to look at the causation. You know the old argument. If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns

I may add secular logic to it is, but when you are dealing with a supply that already exists in the hundreds of millions, it's pretty logical actually, each year I mean it's gonna happen, might have to go door to door and dig into people's base memories. But if you make guns all legal, then then the only people who have guns or law by people me right now, right leg and completely legal love. You, completely as it that's. Why manoeuvres out? You mean? Yes, that's why it's a circular logic that now, because does the criminals are still criminals, even if the guns illegal, it's not everyone's on a law, abiding citizen that has a gun if you give a gun to a criminal right, but if you dont have the law in place to make it criminal in essence, angry say, will only bad guys will have guns if we outlaw them all right yeah, because we outlaw them all I mean that's just etc.

So if we have the law first, because you're not changing the gun ownership, you just changing the law, maybe you're. Already we ve already made an illegal for people that are felons to possess firearms, yeah But when you have that level saturation obviously doesnt work great right, but it gets back the same issue, a coward. You ever pass. It's like trying to get. You know it's like taken a bucket of water. Modern thrown into the ocean and trying to get the fresh water out like how do you get out the guns that are in just stop adding sought. So that's right? We can't instantly solve it. We just have to stop, do in it the wrong way. That's like the drug war, I mean you, you ve, been into the drug worse a you know. Without a doubt it doesnt work. But what are we still doing? unlike its eyes, were slowly moving away from national or we can stop right now, millions, you can literally just stop we're just quickly We started it. We can say: ok, we're not gonna imprison people for those offences. If they get

the crime and they shoot. Somebody will then go after them for the shooting What we do is we put that law in there and we make it with a court. Creating this we know what's wrong and we know to just stop this over the guns. You know if you just stop manufacturing them, we'll get somewhere if you just blocking people up for the drug war were get somewhere in improving then, but we're not reduced Keep doing the same, it's been a year since I was here and we discuss these drug war issues. We have really move the bar, much more, the thinking that it is up for ballot in several different states. Marijuana, of course not not other drugs and slowly but surely it will become legal throughout the United states its most likely now Washington DC as legal there's, a lot places that are legal now that warrant legal before and then on the ballot in November, in California and several other states. I believe that other states as well but CAP,

marijuana just one right. We benign law means really it's it's a book, or rather benign substance. In many ways, it's not it's not a day jurists, things on a real threat are harmed. Society guns are way more dangerous. Sure moving that changing but were creating that you know. So we create the gun. You're being used because of the drug war right and then we have people that are dying over heroin overdoses because of the drug war knows we ve had a lot of improvements and people dying of hormonal suggests is now that it's in Massachusetts and stuff would mean in Massachusetts way are like the cops, aren't arresting. There's a chief there that decided he was gonna, be smart and he was going to lock up the heroin users he was gonna. Get him into treatment, has had excellent success, while the heroin problem down was one wonders. Cnn chose was detailing what actually won at went down. I was Anthony Bore,

ensure they were talking about. How would what really happened was so many people got addicted to oxy cottons because of prescription drug companies. Push in that shit where people below people are like little small minor injuries, nor prescribing pills that are opiates and highly addict there. No different than heroin I didn't like literally their heroin, and so that's money in part tissue again fighting the those drug dealers were getting. Everybody hooked on Heroin were fighting, the drug dealers are in the city, so yeah, that's a gigantic issue, of course, and then these people, when they start to crack down on oxy cons, that is, when Heroin, moved in to take its place. These people are sick. They needed there pills they didn't get their pills than they got heroin. Instead, yeah

but I mean so the outline and move on to some reform measures and what's been showing on the last year. I says what would happen as the years gone on after I left here. Obviously, people picked up and now that the Euro can effectively everybody always talked about after they taught you out of your sight, pay attention and I went back to Baltimore and is dude. Send me an email, as is They arrange it through leap that he's gonna. Come visit me anyway, to talk about a movie all Jews, and so he can and so the corrupt Hake AUS gets here talk about some of these ideas. Very good movie idea that he as trying to put some of these things into an emotional appeal that people can understand in and comes close to them, but what that did was is it it? Put?

me to get more involved in Baltimore, so I could get the p other people involved in the project that would have, have good ideas and would really know the streets well and with no the activism path. What's going on a black eyes manner and everything in there, and so I ve now to a bunch of the activists and we start forming these tight knit groups and come to find out Due to the movie is Matthew costs of rich and on earth. Do you not for his life with Big star in France, in thinking during a sequel to moving. He may call a hair which We talked about these things in France. France had very similar. I per segregation problems in ghettos position, twenty years ago and ended up having riots and they they do a lot to fix it and that's what he's comin down like a twenty year. The union of that

but getting involved in Baltimore and meeting every body. I really have been like in a school of understanding of what the city's need and what people are true to fight for what the black eyes manner. Movement really means. I just didn't. I had all the lot of those same preconceived notions of like now be a white here. Owl. Thing where you going, you help in your bringing your skills down and you dont really, some things are saying and well you play into two privilege and things like that and get him going in there with them. My my walls against Muslims got torn down because ended up meeting muslim activists who were really treat using religion to do the right things here, the good things that selective, of course, but getting involved

in the movement. To the point where we're having these these groups and we're doing things like the panel discussions, and we do they stop at first for people so they would see what it was like to. Actually have some money come up on you and search the your pockets and we ve been doing Aki Memories? We ve been doing protesting where there's a met. This lady Twond Jones, brother was killed by bottom more police officers couple years ago, and she from protest, every single Wednesday for tuna. A few years fighting for her brother Tyrone Western? I guess why they don't wednesdays, and here he was beaten to death by bond workshops like literally beaten to death, and we wanted to have things like where we say why Don't we have people protesting good, wise? It always gonna, be like burning down the CBS or something like that. Words are the good people and, like I was just flabbergasted that they were everywhere in

What everyone thinks is the worst of neighborhoods was just filled. People trying to do the right thing and try. Two to fight for justice in doing it in the most peaceful manner. Her brother was beaten to death by cops in what she does is peaceful protests every Wednesday for two and a half years and doesn't get any attention for that when they have other crops that were that those same cops. This guy up those alarm in front of his kid the exact same kind of of aggressive enforcement and would it opens up when the way of going about it is, I got to see the other side- and that really has affected me- that Vienna copy you how come up? And you put him into the cell or are you taking the court? case goes whenever you don't think about what that does on the other. And you never see, and then I convey, in the communities, and I saw the other side. I saw it, was like for a guy. That came back from being

in prison in solitary confinement for three years and having no hopes of of reach. I should like knocking on jobs and happiness, fight just to get anything because he had that. That record you get to see that yo, those people you locked out like they have families who were profoundly affected by everything that happened. In their gone for these years, and it is this, is it been really like. I get a break. Receive and when we're talking about these conversations about dines in because those deaths on the other side that equation that she became real, is can beat me like those are people now that I know- and I know the families of the of People who are on the other side of that is wrong pushing it. That's what we want. We need to do really do yes, nepeian these tribal creatures. They can only see the those fellow humans are right with us that we associate as being our team like we're all that When we have we have to start having empathy for what these things dude other

when we have to see this cops, don't see what their actions do in order, to step up and say hey, we shouldn't be doing this. We have to get out of this denial bubble and being in up in the city is just give me this huge check or oil all my privileges in everything that we have, we done understand how much advantages we have in life. It's ridiculous the amount of factors that people have to fight against that we can't even disaster- and this is all fairly new. Do you hear a man like? I saw it evidential Lee but You see it in person like the work that so the photographer Devon Alan pull up forever. Now he he took a pitcher, my daughter, that from a protest there's gonna be in. Dad he's doing this project now, where he took the time magazine cover shoots

if you ever, saw the time magazine Donnie uprising where it says nineteen sixty eight and crosstown system Sixteen was he took that fixed picture as a as a young black here that to be a drug dealer who pick up a camera his identity project, kind of thing. He did know what an identity project to us that I'm writing no identity project was at that time, but he picked up the camera start taking pictures and he got that picture and his well known now, but what he did was ass. He took that and now he used the publicity from all that and he gets them out. He gets all these start. This project that this community development Compound north and he could cameras now for all these kids, not that he's getting paid. He collects cameras from around the world brings it in and now here runs a thing going through in San on which has two were Freddy Grey was killed, heat teach them.

Ex those kids in and teaches them photography and gives them that project so they have something they can grip upon on and they have some they can build up point. But what would sad about that is that this is Devon, who has no resources? Who is the kid who was a drug, who has everything bothering him- and he is investing in those communities and trying to provide those things to give people the that that agenda where they can climb out of it and they can become. They can see that vision. Of being a contributing member to society and they that's what we all have to do to give back these neighborhoods. That's part of the way of fixing it is if, when people want to help you We really have to go down there and say how can I help and do things like that? Because would you The feeling is that we all have a skill, his skills photography, but your skills is ding or comedy, or talking or whoever you I got. You have these skills that you can teach and you

impasse once or other people can see and identity. Some people can so some people can do what for it is we all have the skills and that's like how we help it you want to be someone helps you cities, you go down there and you help supply that identity. I did you see how many white nights or sand. I'm going down the right now and I'm gonna help as well. In the fog, now, but bootleg teeth so at north we created this thing that while they create this thing called the safe zone, and what that is all worked out with everybody gets you thereby like humans. They worked out with the with the drug dealers everything's going on in they participate in keeping this area of the city completely safe, so that everybody. Come down there and you. What? If you got about where you want to be a white knight, you come down a borrower, reach out to an activist, and you want to help its not dangerous. You'll be fine there. Plenty of people that will help you and guide you through

You can do to contribute to make our society more hope, plates mobs the bottom was a nurse either country. There's gotta be places around here that need, some sort of a similar. Samantha, where you are now they're all the same All these cities are saying the face and all the same problems, and that has helped me build this reform measures. So my application for Chicago is completely up. If you want to put my website, it's Michael, I would Junior don't. Let me ask you this: had you got in the Pacific in Chicago, you are trying to be a police chief of police in Chicago right. If you had gotten opposition Chicago. What would you do? What is your idea, and I am sure you have a grand planet, so thirty eight pages that her on this budget, break my answer as well that the first thing we have to do is we have to give that power away, and I think, that's a condition that I have to have in order to take the job. Now I have a friend

who is actually a driver? Orange cargo was a cop. And he told me that, what's going on was that they had some pretty high level drug dealer in gang leaders and then they caught those guys and imprison them imprisoned and created a power vacuum and in their power vacuum over the last few years, you're seeing significant ramp up in crime or people try to take over these areas that were under control by other people, similar to what happens when you see when we take over countries like Libya, courageous power vacuum, We have a case to the almost you say: what's worse without Gaddafi than it was women that- Sort of what this guy was telling me about Chicago as accurate as possible. That one of the big problems with policing is. We think we can narrow things down and we can like find a soul causation,

just simply isn't any soul causation there's never saw causation in anything dealing with a massive amount of human beings. Everybody has different reason: you're not going to be able to do everything perfectly and those Things can happen perfectly plausible that it could have happened. A weird theory that I've started to run nice, is that We in this study that they studied LUCA study. They talk a lot about how these kids are really more passionate now and then get exposed to more, and you can see that their work ethic is actually higher than it was. We think that are not working, but their achieving things at three to four hundred percent of what their parents achieve kids are ambitious, and so, if you don't have any other options around You have a more ambitious population, that's now doing drug,

again taking over territory, would he mean by their achieving things three to four hundred percent more in their right? So you have so the average in one like in the nineties for four high school diplomas in college, for residents of a neighbourhood like sand, town or these EAST West Baltimore neighbour is worse that you can imagine in your head as far as resources go they the these kids are at sleep. Achieving so say their their parents got ten percent Highschool diplomas. These guys, we get forty percent Highschool diploma Their parents were getting two percent. Degrees? These guys are like twenty five thirty percent caused agrees, so there really excelling but they're not achieving because of all these other barriers, as you know, so, at a guy, a black eye with a cost

three is slightly less likely to be employed than a white guy with a high school deployment of criminal record. So even they're getting these promises that, if they play by the rules, then there get these things at the end. Just like poor White American West Virginia is and where we have so is there being that they see these examples of with social media whenever an their understanding that if they push hard ass, they took their told her push hard achieve these things then look at these rewards, but they're not getting these rewards they're, just not there, air. So if you have a more ambitious population in their turning to drug dealing and to crime, well, it's just a little likely there are also more ambitious and dedicated to their criminal endeavours, as they were to their college. Achievement rides there better criminals, as a working HANS. Each generation proves re yeah is, but there's or any improvement in terms of crime rates well

there are other are crime, is still dramatically dropping and We are. We live in the safe is era in human history. Right now, are we caught up in a lot of this, and that made sure that's gotta cases of weird argument for the gun guys were they can to say we are in the safest of our time in history ever so. We have to not get caught up in the fact that if I let you set, the eyes of things happening to your super allow especially compared to the rest of history. Canada, sheer numbers you're dealing with what woe it would seem like crime. The percentage of people taking crime is probably still about the same end then or or the amounts are the same, but the population is growing so you have a lot lot. Less crime percentage, wise and you ever have before, but if you're criminals are that much better, but there still gotta the ambitious, but are they not much better resumes? I get so much easier to catch them doing something now than ever before of than physically catch them.

But made so much easier to know. That's really. Contrary evidence solely yeah me, homicide clearance rates for The eighties were in eighty. Ninety percent now they're down to thirty to forty five percent, but is that from think that's from a breakdown of community relations, because we think that cop cops, cops are the answer. The community is always the answer, and so, if you want solve a crime? You have to have these good relationships with your communities in order and even trust you otherwise just reaches is gonna handle themselves right. If the police don't provide justice, will then- will rush off. He can't turns into police that's another fact we get- there are tons of factors and you're in love. Arguments can be made for what it is, but the conviction rate is dropped dramatic. We and the homicide clearance rate has dropped, dramatic the police are not sobbing crimes at the rate that used to

now, when you look at an area like Chicago that has a lot of violence connected to the drug war or to the drug trade, I should say legal drugs selling it's not really resources to those who are actually treat fulfils in for a lack of those very good point, and that's a point. It doesn't get addressed that often right. That's that's very good point. Now what can be done? What would you have done? Had you got that position well? So the first thing I have to do here- here's my model and my funding until model is, is think if you had a business and you have a board, you know tat, you have your board of trustees whenever you want to call it I want to be a civilian leader of the principle like a seal, and I wanna have like officially forty nine. Pretend the power the agency, and then we like seven people on this panel who come from the city who live in these neighborhoods, I dont not sure precisely how we pick them out can appoint them, because then they just become cronies,

We have some issues with voting that that we may have to work out the details on, but that the ultimate principle that we would have. The majority of that board would be from the poorest of the neighborhoods around. So you we had a board and what would will what would be the picking criteria to create this or would it be you and other police officers when this hash? Indeed, civilians So hasn't millions pick the people that IRAN yeah, I think they would have to pick them. I think we have a vote. This is, I don't have that thought the opera okra, but that the majority has to come from the poor population. Covering the base at whatever is good for the weakest among us is good for the strongest among us and then Those boards by I run the agency. I can only argue to them. They have fifty one percent of the control I have all these things. I want to argue for my, but its fundamentally, not my agency, ok, so that you would,

most give most of the control to the rest of the people, and they would work with you. Right so there I'm the ceo there, the board they're going to come up with we're all gonna discuss, how we want approach issues and I'm good. To bring my science I'm going to make my cases as much as I can on the right way to do things, but if they wanted new things, another way it's their agency and that's too What I would have ever been done anywhere, not that I'm aware of so you're you're ideas, so radical and so way out there and that's part of the problem with getting people to accept it right. They would have to take a huge chance and if it failed, it would be therefore, year, whereas, if it fails right now, is that Israel is usually the trick job to total cop out in a manner the failure, is it my fault, Why? But I'm saying where you will be the board's fought. They had the agency so that people are responsible. They can

each of the mayor were because they did it's there. Agency. It's my job to serve them. Now my job to serve a mayor right. It's my job to serve them, carry out what they want to achieve, so our work at it even when they want to achieve in establishing the milestones and incentives that they think are better for their neighborhood because they made two things which could dramatically have put in Looks like such as hiring makes a now guys want higher because they have a drug complaint or something like They have a prior rest record. Why think? If you get others poor, neighborhoods again There are going to say what we know that that book rob the bat arrest. Doesn't stop you from being a good cop. That's ridiculous, and we can let those people in and they gonna take that risk as a home community. We can decide these things so you're saying make former prisoners or for war criminals turn them into police officer. Not that far.

But sure I made some of them. So the difference between them- and me we know- is the color of my skin a neighbor. I grew up in I could have easily had the criminal record that they have, I think, pretty much anybody yet right mean. That's that's hard pill to swallow for folks who have that pull yourself up by your bootstrap, mentality, but a lot of who you are and what you are. Is luck. Yeah, he's been important. This country, rehydration, sharing advantage being born poor in this country, is really way, luckier, then being born in the middle class and a lot of other countries right. So this bore that we have how long you think, it before they and the drug war. It's gonna take a day here, but they can't do that because it's a federal decision was initially you talking about. The city of Chicago was not even a state of Illinois worse weekend, you can stop you the federal government. We don't don't laws, we dont enforcer law period, boy, good luck, trying to pull their illegal.

The facts have become into themselves. The feds would have to come enforced alike is not really do it right. I have to say that what we were doing in Colorado for allow yeah, they tried that didn't work out right, we'll Colorado, perfect example, where the money was so good with plan that was initiated whether there making more money from taxes marijuana than they ever did with alcohol banana beyond the money. You have a reduction in crime and in given our usage of marijuana and in drunk driving ass, yet Lois instances of drunk driving and more than a decade. It's pretty interesting. It's pretty just think, as it just shows you, but was predictable gas while for people like you or I, but not for the people that were arguing against it, they thought was, can be chaos and hip, he's not gonna like the town on fire and fuck each other in the streets and when I was gonna be horrible, but you're talking about a different drug when you talking much cargo you're talking about heroin talking about cocaine, talking about methamphetamine talking about em,

These are different drugs and they have health consequences as well. So illegal immigration or the prohibition? What would the What they have right now is obviously not working. The real problem would be if they decided to not enforce the drug laws and they decided to in some way in open air quotes legalise these drugs. What would take place is you're, going to have some blame, be placed on some deaths on your new laws and that's gonna- be paraded out in front of you. This is your responsible the death of this young girl. She never add heroin to because it was available at seven hundred and eleven, she started snorting it in and out she's dead, so my getting in the way that the that's not the the model the model. So you have prohibition and we they were saying earlier. You know what what prohibition dies is just a charming that they sell it. Ok takes the hands,

put it into the black market. Yes! So, while yet here When is a terrible drug, but why eggs heroin. So bad is its lack of purity, and the environment in which you you get it? Also the addictive properties? which is why we were oxy can't, even though its pure and very measurable, it has a terrifying effect threat. But what kind of consequence did you say that was? It was a health consequence. While it has a has not accepted criminal consequence unless GMO maize. Yet why you will oxy constantly do there's a lot of people who get arrested for illegally possessing selling and distributing it's a huge. You were right. I earnestly I mean the drugs period of rivalry health issue. Yes, there not a criminal issue there, not a prison issue. There are public health issue, so we treat that with health professionals. Not with jail salesman and police, so well made it's not like I'm saying that the drug dealers can go out there and just deal it. That's not what I want. I want a doctor handling.

Anything, I want it moved into just no different than our mother but the doktor handling is that's what happened in Florida. What happened in Florida developed this environment where they didn't have a database or they, the doctors and the pharmacy. Companies were all in cahoots and they said Let's just sell the shit out shareholders and the statistics were staggering, There was more prescriptions for oxy, cottons and opiate pain killers in Florida than the rest of the United States come by, and no that is not what are they doing with it? They are selling it. There, making our selling ITALY it around the octagon, express a documentary that showed that these people were bring it from Florida, upstate into Georgia, can tighten the data on how the market they wouldn't have a market. In Chicago with me right, Florida. Couldn't do that.

Because you won't have a market, the sullen, and so the only reason that back there. Because the only reason take away the market? The only reason that exists is because Making those sell it on the black market, so if you take away the black market has been the distributor then Oh, you would allow people just sell it, No, no! No! Only doctors, only doctors certain drugs first. So cannabis is something that we need to put in a model similar, and we have things in like Portugal or what Portugal does they decriminalize it, so they don't put p in prison cells for possessing it, and if you want to still go after the dealers as a half measure, you know like that's a half measure- I'd- have to swallow the dome completely believe in, but we can work those. Things out, mean you if you're the panel and I'm the ceo, we can work these things out and come to a position where we're like. Ok, let's try this, and if you, if you want to go by the incremental, is on. Then we see

That's ok, just like in Colorado, already has proven that the cannabis model is, is fine, so to start with the kind of his model, a move that in and then we can say, are it would let's put cocaine into this model and then see how that goes? If you wanna be incremental about it and find with them the Annabelle model. It did the prom Mozilla. Innocuous how'd negative effects are just. This, is really there is almost nothing is so little to follow and we don't make that case of alcohol arrive. Echo That's true, but tobacco is not a good one, because it's a long, slow death as long as it as long as it takes a long time. Yet we can accept that how we look out, it's almost like what were they don't like animals Hawse meet the cost of tobacco is extraordinary and on our health care system, no doubt about it and when you think about alcohol, that's the real argument, because alcohol is one the easiest. Drugs kill yourself with people. I thinkers

staggering number thing: it's like ten thousand people drink themselves to death every year, just in this country, which has really pretty shocking, and that does- count drunk driving alcohol, related violence and all the other things that go along with it. Problem with making heroin or cocaine would decriminalizing everything go out going after the dealers is envelope gave these people get hooked on. Where are they going to get? It then? Will they have? RO doctor and was just the way we have to do it. So it is in our treatment, but it then becomes exactly like four, but remember what we do know. We do know that every million spent on the demand side reduces by a hundred kilograms bright. So we have to keep focusing on education. I dont know if those people that got photon Maxie became heroin attics if they had the education that this was the path they were. Gonna go wine, you, God believed that a significant percentage of them would have gone that path,

I mean now we're all aware of it, and I note plenty of people now that the doctor says here some oxen like. No, no, no don't give me something now what Do people that are so fuckin down? They just want a part and you're gonna need some of those things are a little harder to Sarajevo, Adam drink themselves, to death and when you know that's hard pill for people to swallow. But it's better put him in a prison cell. Yes, it is what you are going to dream drinking. Too much too excessive alcohol use led to approximately eighty eight thousand deaths and two point: five million years of potential life lost. What does that mean? I gotta like, just ain't, drunk driving in the United States, two point: five million years, a bitter people's lives guideline. That's a weird fuckin statistic from two thousand sixty two thousand ten, shortening the lives of those who died by an average of thirty years. Yeah. Ok, so it definitely

that's life, lost the meaning you drink yourself into an early grave. That's a weird thing to argue, but the eighty eight thousand des over a period of four years. That's that's harsh, but that's what we were saying, meaning in its essential that more than one, but we also know the solution to or a solution to, a significant portion of their education education? and when I say that marijuana yeah so developing joint empirically, we know those will improve the situations, but instead we continue to do things. We know don't work right right, so I'm a scientist I am interested in what works, I would argue, what works in someone else can argue against it, but that's gonna be what I can Can you to argue for I dont have in emotional position or on Diane I mean I'm following the evidence right. We we literally no these things.

Not only that there is also a drug that is illegal, that has a significant impact on addictions called I've again and again, which is being used for in treatment facilities all throughout South American Mexico, with massive positive results is illegal in this country for no apparent reason, and I've heard the people, do that are just like. That's it seems they take it out. I don't want any more to carry out what to do It requires the way your brain content rates or the way your brain is affected by these substances and requires addiction mean I'm not one to explain how it works. But you'll, be in this week and he'll, probably the best person to do it got another one. This is from the Washington Post this statistic of how many Americans drink every week, today's plenary, that what in fact thing right here up to ten drinks per day last upturn, is the top ten percent of american adult twenty four million of them consuming

average of seventy four drinks per week or little more than ten francs per day. Hallway shifts appeared to about thirty percent that don't drink at all, hope and how many of them are doing that because canvasses illegal well, I'm sure quite a few, but quite you mean I look, there's a lot of obviously I'm a marijuana enthusiast. I love it. I think its awesome. I wants when a bright now think about I'm a big fan, but some people don't like it. They don't like the Abrasive, Lee introspective properties of cannabis. I don't like the paranoia. They don't like the vulnerability feelings you get from it. I like those those are good for me my personality. I have to tie Bay aggressive. Now, I'm good with substance, substance compound of that sort of like coms down and mellow me on. It gives me a different prospect.

Have. I enjoy it, nothing it's good for people are really do. I think a lot of the thing the people associate with negative aspect of cannabis, the partition the paranoia. I think that's good. I really do do. I think we need to feel more vulnerable. Having more freedom, more vulnerable, is better for you, because it enhances a sense of community and friendship and love and a lot of ways and it it into bonds. People together I think this idea that you're an individual that you are you know you're alone rebel out. There kicking ass and taking names you're doing all by yourself. That's all I wrote it instantaneously by Canibus. It just said: no, no, no! No you're a talking monkey spinning ball, flying through infinity, fuck, head like I plug it, scared I'm gonna die someday. I quite agree with you more. I think those are the important qualities for entire race, the human race. It enhancing more

unity, type, feelings and thoughts, and I think that's the opposite. With some drugs ex stimulants do stimulant, I've always avoided stimulants and not a fan of than coffee. I've never really tried them, but I've seen there fact on other people, one of red, about their effects in Islam. What I'm looking for onawandah be cocky at you, I d I'm trying to fight whatever urged Is my body in my personality have to sort of lean towards that, but I think that people that get involved speed people to get involved with Coke those are people that are like unduly covered its as a bad drug for society and its it's a drug that is very selfish in its effects like the the impact it has on people's they become really selfish nasty, and I'm not into that. I think that alcohol for some people,

is is an escape from the reality that they find themselves in and they don't know how to get out, and I think education like we're talking about before allowing people to have access to this stories and the the tat either. The consequences that other people have experienced from taking that drive will help them. What kept me from doing coke when I was young, was having friends that had problems with it and that educated meals like fire, going to want to be like that guy, Have that happened to me? I see what's happening to this person. Some people dont get exposed to that. Instead, before they know no already in it. There try and when their fifteen next thing. You know they like it too much next thing. You know they're looking forward to doing that, because it provides some sort of an escape from the pressure of the consequences of pursuing a dream of chasing down life or not having a direction. That's another one. Not having like you're saying the identity that you're focusing on whether it's this gentleman there was a photographer or someone else at once,

to be an athlete or someone else who wants to be an author whenever it is one thing you're chasing. If you don't have that thing, this dispute The futility of life is very overwhelming to some people and they want to escape that pain, the pain of not knowing what the fuck you're doing and a thing. Some of that? And this goes home go way out there, but I think- some of that goes back to the hunter gatherer didn't means that we have in our in our our own bodies. We're in a lot of ways were a prisoner to the needs of the past and the needs. The past were very goal: oriented yet go out there. You go to pick the right about. Foods that unity, yet a hunt, the animals or touch the fish, and that was the goal and we were very goal oriented in that way. You have to go there and do that. You had a work hard and then through those goals. Yet this feeling of satisfaction when you're just getting food and its it comes to you when your job involved

something: that's not rewarding in any way shape or form, and this is what you have to do to get that food. You sort of two. Get out all the natural reward systems that our bodies are designed to to sort of gravitate towards, and unless you find a passionless you find an art or craft. Or a trade or some sort of a thing that excites you mentally and stimulates York activity and stimulates your ambition. Your left lost and there's a lot people that are just left, lost and unfulfilled and unsatisfied, and I think those types of people gravitate towards alcohol and a lot of other drugs as an escape and that's a part of the problem with society was how we view drugs. We view drugs as an escape rather than an enhancement or rather than a perspective. And an enhanced, or will we view them as all this guy's week, he needs a drug. I I think I think spot on

I don't know how you can argue that it like ties altogether. So I know you Sally Liberal, I mean you'd, poorly Sally, liver hippies when you, like start putting all these things together, but these things really do tie in together. So you have the alcoholism, because people horrified earning their identities. So we should be doing things like how people yet identities, if we want to safer environment right, so it's not about taken those people and put him into prisons. Azure articulated it's about finding that passion or educating them to do something and end. So if you want to help or police or whoever want to help you have to addressing those kind of issues? And I think so people one thing we ve noticed at throughout throughout human history. Is that when things are really tough and there no resources right,

The leaders of the oppressed, like so say it is really easy to use the black segregated neighborhoods right now is easy example. Scientists eases an obvious and sell to very good, so the masculine members of a society that cannon chief, something they turn. To making everything about masculine, Eddie and dominance. Accepting of the of that lower realm and they start to treat intelligence and education as a feminist or or weak, and- and so you have that that might plays into the culture of where you have the guns, and everybody here too near the disrespecting culture, and this is my corner kind of culture. So we have those kind of benefits that are factor off. Oh in levelling the playing field for everybody and contributing so one of the things

we're doing right now is were building a studio like this in Baltimore and it's called a radio revolver and now to be my shameless plug, so go find me. Radio revolver wisdom a few more thousand dollars, a figure fix everything In doing so, we are making yet so we have a video recording like sky obsession we have the podcast the whole set up like this, for with eight MIKE's China said everything that we have local artist, that are painting everything in the inside lemons, Sabra, known, AP, we're gonna talk over each other, never have more to do We ve made a mistake: may times we have this fight campaign, for in their my best friends, well fuck him yell alone over each other. I try to watch one of those the other day I was like, oh my god, I'm gonna headache. Sometimes, if that there's a very fine, I guess I use we get hammered ridiculous, but I'm just saying if you have beat people really it's like here. That expression, why why

boy, one always work to boys. Half boys work. Meaning that we give you have two young kids together and are working on. Something discussed are talking shit and it's not gonna. Get done wondering why we do have one kid that's digging a hole. He can actually get that job done. But if you have like four people, nothing gets done now. Then that's really the case. Giving already its eight peoples to me. So one of the people that I met was if you ever hurt Cyril podcast Jamie Tina Shore, so What now wherever the first season is about and not Saeed, whose wrongfully improves right now in Maryland, still ripe, so he definitely wrongfully. I think so. Well, so goddess of whether you get at point of whether he did not a modestly unaware the case. What it was like used of so in high school at seventeen of murdering his ex girlfriend a classmate at will high school,

evidence, regardless of whether what someone was argue about whether it actually did or not the evidence is is extremely clear that you do not have the evidence to put this individual in jail period. Not there. His best friend is the partner with me for radio revolver and we end up being connected four because I helped out on that podcast for awhile, and we have this community that we form now so he's helping me with this, and This is an example of how you use your privilege answers. Nationalism, so I was institutionalized by what I said before by the the cow sitting people in all the things they did Private I'm most proud of is that I instantly switch from that sensationalism to how we fix them things and what the reform measures are, and we don't even talk about their sensationalism anymore, but tracing the sensationalism was important because it brought you to people like makes critical, yeah right, so the success when this of turning that around into something productive part of that,

this radio revolver. So if you have privilege and you have an advantage or something which you have to do. Is you have to build platforms for other people, build structure so that other people can rise? Not just for yourself. And the idea behind this is where we have the new work solely and of being turned key, it's in it of room that anybody can come in at any time and if the community, the committee members we are having today and I think we're we're gonna have a problem with who we cut out versus who we're gonna. Let in and work creating the entire infrastructure under one umbrella for them to come and have their voices heard and get their message out there. They can build a podcast. They can vote a video like a tv show type of thing and that none of this has ever gonna cost any of them anything and if they succeed and we end up getting to appoint, were in the red, then we just start taking all the profits and tribute him out to whoever proportionally has the park ass? It does the best or whatever. But the point is that is it? Is it you

that that is going to enable at will ten to twenty identity projects Somebody else has to come in and do the other end of that, take whatever you have and do that cites kind of thing if you have money than we can take the money we can do something go with that. If you have that skill, then you can come into a place like were building replace LE pen north impasse that all that is really what we have to do it. Individual level, and if so, I would always love of people would help me out with radio revolvers. So we can get that finished so you're what you gonna do as you gonna put together podcast and through that podcast you're gonna have people tell their stories you're gonna expose though it has a world to the plight these inner cities and that the positive stories while people rising out of them and your friend, the photographer and a bunch of other people that you gonna get exposed to. So I think one of them

important things for a young person is to believe that they can somehow another be successful I remember one when I was young, where poor I always identified with poor person, and I never thought that I would be anything other than a poor person, because I would see people that were we healthy and they ve. They always felt so different than me. There was felt so but anyone who is successful should just say wealthy, just a normal person like you know, someone who lives in a normal house with in our garage and that you know, wow. That's that's a person that the american aspires to they feel different than you. If you, from a broken home if you're from poverty and in my case, obviously was nothing in comparison to the extreme poverty that a lot of people face, but I still remember feeling really and secure really disconnected from successful people. I think,

That mindset is very difficult to overcome very difficult to very difficult to believe that you can achieve something very difficult to believe that can rise from no matter where you are. If you continue to work- and you can t see your goals and you can avoid all the pitfalls of the negative aspects of society? You can do better, you can do better and you can feel satisfied in there and to give people all these opportunities to see people who have done the very thing that Europe aspiring to do Massively beneficial, because gives them sort of like a little bit of a blueprint, get its Emmy. And that's exactly two point: would you say these days I mean you may as well? Just do me say am, I agree with you completely. I mean it's a critically important that that we, at these up for people in and they can do they do that now. Just reminds me when you said that, they come up to my house and, like that's like success to them and that's what I am. I mad dude with the same

a family home in a garage and not really only money. A bootleg down is. Obviously all anybody ever really needs wants me. You can a giant ass, fuckin house. But let me tell you something Does your house, you know that it's just where you live, it's if is a comfortable. Is it safe yet That's what everybody really want Europe. Definitely that's really what it's all about, and one of the Most positive aspects of doing this podcast is running into people that I've met. That said, hey man, I've been doing stand of colonies, three years now, I'm actually working comedian, I've. I did it from listening, your PA gas. I knew that I could do it because you told me that any We can do it if you just try that you I'd ISIS suck I tell everybody I always I was fuckin terrible you, but you can chip away at it and she's listening. You recordings knowledge as I've, a million fucking people that have started doing jujitsu. Now I mean it's Amazon a million. But it's not accountable anymore of ran into so many people that hey Madge got my purple belt started Do you guys you know now

competing my Martin Weir lifestyle. So much healthier. I e cleaner everything. Better. My life is used to be depressed, so much more positive, so I take great satisfy. I was a private something network. Work. Great satisfaction feels awesome to talk to people that have looked at this little book. But a blueprint that I've laid out and said. Look, anybody could do this. You can do this whatever path, earns that you're following because the people that you around or in these negative patterns, you don't have to follow those patterns. It's one of the beautiful things about social media, the beautiful things, but the internet as you can kind of choose what you follow mean you can go just follow negative stuff. All day long, you could concentrate on negative bullshit and you could be one of those people who goes on twitter and just bombs on people in sheets on people all day, and then that's gonna, be your point of focus, but you're not gonna, get any better at anything. Doing that you're not gonna have a better life. You're, not gonna, feel better, in other, be happier you're, not gonna, spread anything anything anything beneficial,

nothing positive to anybody, but you can take a choice to not do that and a lot of times, you need to see that someone else has done that in order to help you do that, our, whereas by others Jessica, inspire me right now, I'm thinking about how many identity projects the you lead, even though they were the, maybe not even been obvious to you because you ve gone and use this platform to do these things? I think is highly honourable view that you use this platform so that I talk about these things about bjaaland blacklist matter and about police reform? And things like that? That's, like the the typical like prototype of what what we're talking about you you're doing great work, but by doing that, help me a lot to honestly I mean I think everyone's life is a constant journey You hear me less, you just stay sedentary, you don't go anywhere and you don't take any new data, you're you're It is all about re, evaluating the way you think or

evaluating it or enhancing it or adding to it or removing some negative aspects of the way you think and one of the best ways it. Found to do that has exposed myself too interesting. People like you or like any of the other people that have of had the pleasure and the opportunity to talk to on this podcast you get this. I mean I've had three Our conversations with. Eight hundred fuckin will not eat unpeopled people eight hundred times and having those kind of conversations it forces, you'd, think forces you didn't. Wanna things that everyone was saying that really resonated with me is it he likes to write your rights every day and one of things it is and why he likes to right as it makes him solidify his own thoughts, he thinks about us I'm thoughts and it really sort of like It allows him to really really kind of examine them and in and in debt,

As to how we really truly feels about something and really get up a cleaner perspective, instead of just a lot of people me included. I've been guilty this in the past. We operate on momentum. We just get a path: IRAN, it for some, whatever reason and industry stuck and you just behave that way and think that way, and then you don't ever examine that universe, TIM and writing allows you to really pause and look at that podcasting does the same in a lot of ways. It allows me to pause and really think about some of the things that I've attached myself to or nah touch myself in its record is never going to be able to eyes. I'm just reported and should live right. So it is you see it's you who you are. You know and offer good or bad Did you see negative aspects of the way you think in the way you talk, and then you get to see them precautions who knows needed to consider like. Why did I think that way was? I just? Was it just? A jerk reaction was it just was attired that day

I not respecting the medium. Was I not respecting the power of these thoughts. In these conversations, most likely a combination of all those things but through the personal, grew that is been afforded me by the podcast, its help me in as much as its helped. Anybody it's help me tremendously and when these kind of conversations with people argue or giant part of that things I gotta take the highest level either, but I I can't I can't sing arisen enough for having that kind of mentality and being the alpha now that is vulnerable and lets people see that it's ok, that those things are important. It's ok for, for the tough guys that letter guard down and be introspective and to be people that are willing to help and reach out it's entirely admirable legs,

Frank is another person that I've gotten close Eve had ammonia arising in Genk Genk signed his name right. Glad that you say I write Egypt's about that. How like people, no my whole life saving, as he writes Genk Reg, J writer, while the young Turks. What would they as they have developed a sort of alternative media platform, that's outside of the mainstream media, but it has arguably as much impact when you look at what they never do on Youtube and their one of many. You know there's a lot of people that are pushing unusual ideas on the internet, The amazing atheists is another one of really enjoyed a lot of his stuff lately She jays a fuckin, really bright guy, and he puts out some really interesting, well thought out, videos, pay or somethin That's given has an address, It's all about drank, we got Jake, Jesus he's, gotta go see and this we just don't count chain. So

but our money where our mouth is, we got knocked up this year. It has got locked and you see I rested. Of sea and aroused pitchers at Genk did two yet arresting the earlier. We got arrested together, generous of four for sitting in, for democracy spring. Is that by serving protecting? How does that were evident? Serving do you? Will you yeah? Do you guys get a wreck arrest records for that. So I still get in Canada. I guess Genk does lodge I rest record, so I thought it because It wasn't easy to close the aid hosting aggravated. So but they ended up. Dropping the charges on me. Ok, we haven't got a phone call that there is no way they're gonna put me a chance to speak in Asia Record at public forum whence I said area of us away, John Ladys is what would you protesting to get money deposits so we're nights, people.

Jack and I are not just talking over asses on this. We mean it and so we went and we participated in. Parts and got the arrest Washington, D, C and logical arrested for what are the charge like loitering or some bullshit reality Clearly worded it, and so it's because you are protesting in a public area blocking traffic or something that they said. There is no way trying to go in or out of the capital and that's where we were right, but they wouldn't be able to have their Say want to? Because you away Well, that's kind of loitering right, but that does get attention and so what you are, the largest mass arrests in DC history like two hundred some of us again arrest of the first day, while forty fifty overall, so that we have some good pictures of it if Jimmy their websites, not working. It's me word photography, em a p w o o d out those of my phone so so

What were the cops like when they arrest you I'm sorry? This is bullshit, we gotta Russia or they be index. Some of them are still being tax level bleak considering it was. When you see this crowd, so they were treating you like an actual criminal. Even though is pretty obvious you're trying to campaign against others. The nobody really thinks is a good thing: money in part right, the lieutenant the said, a guy that you guys right, you're doing that really the lieutenant said right hold. These are capital police. I've sang the praises before, but they face a lot, so they handlers. There's check that that's captain Re Louis, he also was arrested and english versions uniformed he's a retired, Philadelphia police officer

and he wore as uniformly does and got arrested in his uniform visa, and they took it sign and threw it away and they charge you say, was a science. A massive civil scratched out disobedience is next warning. Massive disobedience stacks wasn't me well because I'm assuming what he means by this, but right now the disobedience, a civil rights It's over proto we're doing things like this, but late. I'm flabbergasted that the black community in these neighborhoods hasn't really said enough. Is enough yet like the idea, will they have children and family members dying in these streets are probably scare to get arrested, man that they are, but I just there there's a breaking point this coming and that's that's. What he's trying to say is and what I've tried to cereals on don't grow what's up with due to the nose ring the Fox Conner he's a he's. An fool. You remember tribe, he's from

participates in the light of these things and what about the do with a musket straw? now. I don't know that I have decided that it would look like must get when I was lazy, the Tipp of it. What the Tipp of the thought it was just a musket. I thought it. Never just the two of us nor sand dollars in what does that scroll down dollars in politics, grass tranche of sorts of essentially just a bunch of people standing in a place where the government didn't think you should be able stand right and we gotta keep drawing attention to this money in politics is a really think. That's the room is the root of area that we can't and the drug war. Because of this, we can't move anything. For. We can't do police reform because it s democracy, sprang they're, calling that was the one day different groups different days so as a whole week long, as was the first, there was the biggest day, and you have me and hang us at the end of eventually but

and so now some alleged stamp Jennifer to spend the night annoying I was nor and was a real job. There are so many people, It was just like they were keeping us innocently more Panza felt like it. So we would just be like penned off Mr Varela and had like like fences, they portable fences and they really pretty late. So it is now you really couldn't get out. You could get out if you want to suggest a curve of our I wanted to. I wasn't gonna go right for an escape charge, her so silly, but like so the so dumb way to handle it smile and skin handcuffed to risks It's a pretty white crowd eyes fast. So I think that hopes on where the police act like something just site to be hanging out with Jack yeah, weird, so,

that's an example of another thing I mean you can go and you can participate in these things, and so, if that is a passion of yours, think that's another identity thing that we have you can you can go and put these groups. Are all these groups out there you're saying that if people feel lost in their turning to two other things, but we have all these things out there and if you don't have once create one they're out there, they d Whitey family. Your family, like black lives matter. We have tons of of mood it's going on that that you can do something positive with no matter who you are. Okay, so tell us one more time. What's the name of this pod gas, and one, do you hope to things you start so, namely the Pollack has that radio right now is called cod rate, a revolver and that's just the umbrella. Why radio, revolver guns, yeah reform. We have that play soap, revolving door like a prison cells, how I envisioned than what it is like a gun logo and is known and unknown. I can't do that. Radio, revolver potash network

grace to hear some of the friends that I've made that are activist around, and there are definitely be ones that are in there. We were doing serious, show we took that pitcher and so the donating his search for equipment for rental space, about which we have this space was dominated by sod. It's a basement of his house all blocked, often and done so. That's not an issue. We have that done. What do you need we're service, but was gettin last bit of equipment? We have some local artist, painting the walls now grant and as it were clause will I mean, like maybe three thousand dollars and were were set well let me know when you guys launch an hour, absolutely tweeted out letter, but it'll be aware of it. The fur One is going to do so again. The car, the thing that we're going to do as we just take advantage of me ripe and the publicity, so the One is going to be a joint project with undisguised. This, too is filled with cereal story and r and D

one's gonna be misconduct and which is going to be one of the serious we have significantly multiple podcast coca. One of them is gonna, be misconduct, and then you have like the photography water you're have a public health when, like Doc, large Brown us is going to a public health one essentially billion a whole station whole station grant. Everybody that once in now, as long as you learn what you're doing and everything you ll be able to have your voice heard in whichever manner you want. That's a great idea, because you know this is one of the easiest way to get a message out and the mess instead you know you when you hear someone talk man in you, hear their words and you get to know them through the hours and hours of conversations you get a nome and are really deep, intimate way, you're shining example. I bet you walk around here by this year. They know you, people hug me out of a normal. What's up right, so the first ones called Miss and which is gonna, be a series and I'm gonna do the first one and gonna be the killing of gray so work

we're gonna do, for that is go through the story and when we first Goethe, the story. The first episode will start and of war start telling what happened like so, these cops are in this neighbourhood and Freddy graze in this, and then we go but wait. Why does it look this way? and then so, like some like dark Brown will come in we're: go overthrew the history of segregation, how the neighbourhood are formed, the way they are why the cops are all why why the citizens or all black and we'll go Queen s story and then the next episode I'll start over again start telling the story we were hit the next hurdle, which will now be some and like all, why are they going after him for the drugs and why they chasing him? So then, what right down the history of the laws and why that's why that is done days? What policing philosophies have led to this until we finish the entire story and everybody can understand the new wants to what have behind the murder of regret all right. Listen thanks. Very much

I appreciate it and will deafening want to do that thing with my friend Justin, if he's down we'll have a fuckin gun control hoedown up in this bitch, I'm certainly too, and will definitely promote your pod gas as soon as it launches radio revolver, so good, a go. Fuck me Dotcom, Ford, Slash, radio, revolver go and contribute and you can follow. Michael on Twitter, Michael, would juniors that, whereas until I got a virgin Michael, a wood junior on Twitter thank brother verily. I wish it is good to see you again we'll do it again. It's definitely thank you. Folks, we'll be back soon by big cares, Mamma Mamma you, my friends for tuning in thanks to cave coffee for power in us through this mother fucker, Y gotta Caveman coffee Yoda Carnegie yourself, some single source, single family, single origin? Goodness knows what the most important things about caveman. Is that it all comes from one place. We know work comes from this one far,

in Colombia, let's run by one family and it's it's not a big deal, Yes, it's a small business and that quality is very high and I'm sure you have all aware of the term fair trade, fair trade when it comes to come he is, it's important because you buy coffee! You don't know how to the people feel that work there, like what kind of people work at their organs? nation. What remains a slave labour live where there is a common from wealth, that's laid out with Caveman crossing. It is one single family, does it all and they do it now, they roasted and Keith Sardine, Fletcher and Lazy Mackey all involved in the company, and they sell it online and there too I'll bring some small stores that sell it now, twosome Caveman coffee shops and it will continue expanding an awesome company with asking people behind it in the coffee is you damn delicious wow, so cable,

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Jamie pointed out really almost fifty years to the day that I was crazy. He was there in June of nineteen sixty six. So thank you friends and will cease.