« The Joe Rogan Experience

#844 - Andreas Antonopoulos

2016-09-07 | 🔗
Andreas Antonopoulos is a bitcoin entrepreneur, he also serves on the advisory boards of several bitcoin startups and serves as the Chief Security Officer of Blockchain. Links to "The Internet of Money": Paperback - https://www.amazon.com/Internet-Money-Andreas-M-Antonopoulos/dp/1537000454 Kindle - https://www.amazon.com/Internet-Money-collection-Andreas-Antonopoulos-ebook/dp/B01L9WM0H8/ Give-away (No purchase necessary) (5)Paperbacks - https://giveaway.amazon.com/p/e9a610a7c83ddeff?ref_=pe_1771210_134854370#ln-fo (5)Kindle copies - https://giveaway.amazon.com/p/8ac158adbe11d197?ref_=pe_1771210_134854370#ln-fo
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Hey everybody high doing before I do. My wonderful adds that I know you look for to so much in September thirtieth, I'm into being. Columbus Ohio with great Tony hinge, Cliff Tony's from a so others. Highly dork should be others port Note I looked right at Jamie when US and Ohio highly people from Ohio love from being from Ohio just kidding folks, I love Ohio. In the film especial no, you can't relax then put on my best once deftly when my best once talking monkeys in space.
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is an awesome guy he's a fascinating individual and he is one of the premier experts on Bitcoin and Crypto currencies and I always enjoy talking to him so give it up for an dress and monopolies The job will gain experience. You creeps that are controlling money all throughout the world. Your time is slowly closing in on my right. Yet Andrea's aunt Annapolis, author of published, Arthur of the internet of money been on the show many times before, but you ve never been on a show two days after a book fresh off the presence, how a story about how this book got deliberately today, because this kind of hilarious
yeah. So nobody knew about this. This is my announcement. This is my second book First book was mastering Bitcoin was for techies the internet of money. As for everybody else and it's a collection of my talks and I was having the first copy delivered to my hotel this morning in order to get to the show and give it to you. It was a day. Late was possibly delivered yesterday, and waiting, and I'm refreshing the tracking number site, and then you said, we can push back by half hour because you're running about Layton and in the half hour the boycott delivered it literally was printed September. Fifth, this is the first copy I've touched and it's yours, I've gotta folks, Issues: zero, zero, zero one. Now, why did you that just one month is make it one wise everyday though, a one, I'm not printing them I'll issues so willing, never go is never like.
Zero, zero, zero, zero, zero. Zero one did ever did a pair of shoes once recently with. I why you and one of my ears only what the hell's goin on again have you my left ears like you're, like the voice of good the of bad Oh yeah yeah attitudes and yeah. That's too weird. We can have a trillion check check now you fuckin, weirdo you're, coming to my left ear, only probably the rest of Us Erika two right yeah. They can have that. At the gym, got a lot of Jamie's in my left ear. So this is collection of all your talks. One has changed in the world of Bitcoin. Since the last time we spoke, we spoke and we hung out in Vegas, which is great, and I had a great time with you and but what change in the world a bitcoin since last time
well, it's been, but a year and a half almost and us so much so much happening in the meantime. We have pretty slow, twenty fifteen twenty sixteen packed up again twenty steam still coming off slow and gradual drop in the price. People were very reluctant and sceptical the media constantly bashing Bitcoin and then at this? time. We saw this really interesting phenomenon where the bank started getting interested in this thing, but not bitcoin itself. No, the blockchain, the technology behind Bitcoin which is rather amusing. I look that's a bit as if you know the horse, Buggy Association of America is going out. We like this automobile thing you ve designed, but we are big investment in hay and horses and stables and veterinarians. So We're gonna use the technology behind the automobile thing, pneumatic tire and we're going
revolutionise horse buggies, but it offered I think what you say in Belarus, but in all fairness, It is so weird thing to invest and liked to go off, in on Bitcoin, I mean I know you do it, but you also make all of your money this way- and this is you know your your proselytizing personally comes to bid Corner Yahoo for good reason, but for other the average person sales saved up actual cash mining. Their whole life is involved. Established system of money to throw all their money into Bitcoin Lowood. And saying you watch the money fluctuate goes up and raised ambled, I'm think I'm glad you said that it would be in saying no, that's that would be a terrible idea right become. You think, did that's probably why the media bash? Is it and why bank you're just looking gone, like people see that their a growing number of people that are using it for transactions, there's bitcoin, eighteen now, and people
using it to to purchase things. Is several companies accept Bitcoin for for products for actual real physical products, but yeah I mean it's, not an investment and it should be treated as an investment I am not even mean like as an investment, I mean as like of the primary source of wrath of money of of. If you decided to take all of your money not as an investment, but you say: I'm going: gonna live off. The Bitcoin ombudsman Bitcoin, like your money, is gonna, go up and down the idea that you gotta be really hard, especially if you're, if your cousin and to privileged banking, like if you have the kind of banking that we have in this country. If you actually have access to that and you have a nice visa debit card and pain, account fees and your money doesn't get confiscated by dictator too often,
and you know you can earn your money and interact with other people than why. Why would you use Bitcoin? The simple answer is: that's not really the use case, but thorough law. So people around the world who simply don't have access to that for them. You know in many cases bitcoin is the stable currency, Oscar and Argentina Venezuelan a brazilian supreme, two Greek and the list goes on and on and on whether there, worried about volatility in Bitcoin and in many cases, if they ve heard of it, if they use that that's a stable currency, their national currency is far far worse rage Brazil, India and Brazil has had massive devaluation the last year, how much divided? because I know that they too have experienced some sort of a really radical economic downturn, which is really interesting because
a few years ago, when we first started going into Brazil, their economy was booming. Writing what we are saying that you have see gather in a currency crisis right now, massacre and secretly. What's going on well apart from the political crisis, is going on, and I won't speak for that because a Brazilian, but you know they ve- had impeachment proceeding in interest in peace, their president that there has been a lot of economic difficulty with the country and I think that their currency is devalued almost thirty percent in the last year, twenty or thirty percent, some staggering amount currencies, don't move like that mean stream national currencies that have very low economies behind them simply don't move like that? We ve seen it happen only a couple of times we ve seen it happen, in Greece and Cyprus. During the economic crisis, we saw happen in Britain during breaks it, and we ve seen it in place like Priscilla Venezuela, Argentina and place like that. How much turn
see did how much of a percentage in Britain you lose during breaks it almost twenty percent in a day and three things responded to that in the opposite: direction: gold, the Japanese, yen and Bitcoin heading in the exact opposite direction because climb twenty percent that they almost real so did Britain rebound. I'm a did a bit but it still in historic, close multi decade laws. So they took the really big hit and what we seen again and again is at times of crisis. We see this repeating where people use Bitcoin is a safe haven investment to get money out of national currencies, especially where there are very strict currency capital controls. So one the reasons we ve seen, Bitcoin, probably one of the reasons we ve seen a lot of activity with Beck went in China is because of currency controls every times that you on,
The chinese currency devalues against the dollar, and it's done so. I think four times in the last here. Every time there is a massive optic in Bitcoin buying in China, so people are parking. The money in Bitcoin or using its converted, two other currencies and get money out of the country. So what is the biggest fluctuation? The bitcoin is out well it it depends whether you look at it on a mandatory basis or a percentage basis. If you look at the movements now, it can go up. Thirty, forty, even a hundred bucks in a day which seems like a lot, but as a percentage, the biggest fluctuations had were in two thousand and in two thousand and eleven, when it rose from under dollar two, for thirty dollars and then back down to under dollar in a period of a couple of months now for people donors downwards means when you say a hundred bucks.
For a dollar thirty dollars, I would it. What is that in relationship to one bit going? One bitcoin equals third. Dollars in two thousand and eleven, and what does it equal right? Now? Six hundred and seventy six seventeen dollars Jesus it was sad about two hundred and thirty dollars. At the beginning, this year so seen a massive ramp up and renewal of interest that ok, so massive ramp up, but like what's the fluctuation. So if it's at six hundred and sixteen, is that what you said yeah it stretching since the beginning of the year, almost is it possible that it could dropped like two hundred tomorrow. Yes, so that there is a shared, yes an end, which is why you know at this: here's a here's the truth over,
the seven years that its existed. The volatility as a percentage has been going down every single year. So, as the economy gets bigger, the bigger it is the more stable it is. Eight doesn't get buffet around right. Just like of very large boats doesn't get pushed around by the waves Bitcoin is like a zodiac. Next to the U S dollars titanic and the wheels of eggs bouncing up and down on the waves alot her aunt and it might be uncomfortable at times. Of course, if you're here, to an iceberg. You want to be in the thing that can actually turn on a dime We look at our over the fair analogy to get really gets its volatile and then that's part of its part of the fact that a ten to twelve billion dollar economy stretched across the entire globe is a small account.
Me as a currency. Now in the interests of making this a stand alone, podcast, if you're not gonna, go back and listen all the progress we ve done, who explained very briefly: she could nowadays bitcoin How does it work? I'm glad I have this opportunity to do it again, because every time we have a new audience, so Bitcoin is internet money. It's system of money that exists on the internet was created on the internet and it allows you to send and receive value, though the same way consent to receive an email anywhere the world instantaneously with out intermediaries and that's kind of what you see at first glance. Behind that it's a whole platform. It is as the title of the books as the internet of money
It is. It is a set of protocols that allow you to basically exchange value with other people, but you can do a lot more with it, then just that most people will use it as a currency. It's basically money that you can transmit from your smartphone to somebody else's smartphone directly, just like cash, but electronic and the thing about it, that's unique is that it's not owned by any corporation any bank or any government just like the web, isn't owned by anyone or email isn't on binding and there's lots of companies that consent to receive email is also companies that can set up websites. This lot of companies that can set up applications that use Bitcoin, And I should say that when you set it up for me the first semi did it a bunch people donated Bitcoin. So what
I did was I'd said whatever people donated, I would match. I would double it and then we would donated to fight for the forgotten they build wells in the Congo yet, and we build I don't remember how many Justin in Rehn said, but. Was owning. Remember how much money, but was many thousands of dollars people donated and then I doubled it, and then we sent it over to the Congo Sonia. The Bitcoin mean he's very generous, as my point that, if that is true, and part of that generosity comes from the fact that a lot of the people in this community of very excited about this technology and want to share it with others. They want to tell other people about this technology. It's really quite interesting. What happens when you create a form of money, it is truly global. Are we really don't have forms of money that a truly global, if you'd, even even with
you're very advanced banking system in your access to all of the technology that you have any american banking system. If you tried to send money to some countries, it's almost impossible you and I experienced this every time I get paid him back when I go into a conference in Europe and all do one conference with the banking industry and one conference with the Bitcoin community in the low Bitcoin conference gotta be free to attend, and I I don't make any money, but they sometimes cumbersome expenses and also then in voice and the banking industry conference will send me a wire transfer. It takes on average for weeks for me to get it with several calls to find out where it went what's goin on whether to get lost and takes me on average fifteen minutes to get paid him back when no matter what country being paid. It is this a cynic in me. Is this because when they take the money and there
transferring their moving it around now it sitting in banks when banks have money, if they have your money, even if it just for a few weeks, they have the opportunity to use that money to make more money. Are they doing that it? Did certainly doesn't it doesn't hurt to keep. A bit longer they're doing primarily, because because the system, has a series of intermediaries and each of those intermediaries represent a risk. If one of those intermediaries says I have the money for Mr Antony surpluses Wire and you give that money tonnes monopolise, but the intermediaries doesn't give it to you you're out of money right, so there's those risk with every intermediate put in their risk and not called count, a party risk the because of the way the banking system is with perhaps five six seven intermediaries in a single transfer that creates a lot of cumulative risk and they protect without risk by slowing things down
An term that risk doesn't exist in Bitcoin because it's from one party directly to another, no counterparties, that's one of the core principles of anything I had this conversation with my bank is handed Zeus, had done this sum conference. In Germany, Frankfurt at the headquarters of the Bundesbank. Now, for those of your view is or listeners who don't know. The Bundesbank is a federal Bank of Germany and they probably considers it the United States Federal Reserve to be a mediocre creditor compared to the Bundesbank. This is like the best credit rating on the planet right and I'm going to speak at a conference there and they're paying me for my expenses. They send a wire transfer and I call my bank and after four weeks they finally find it in some way we ve received your bank, your bank wire transfer,
we're going to hold it because of the risk profile. Oh my god, I don't understand why you haven't been paid by this particular pair before so we're going to put a hold on it So you do know, this is the Bundesbank you are holding and they held it for two weeks you are holding for two weeks because of the credit risk of the Federal Bank of Germany, the most credit worthy institution, I'm not trying to receive money from Somalia. You know this. Don't even something weird and if, if even they can't pay me in the age of the internet instantaneously, there is something wrong with this banking system, and there is because I got paid for the Bitcoin Conferences doing in the same town instantaneously, but there's also concern a nerve therein about fraud. Right, I mean isn't, but there's fraud with Bitcoin is well. I mean wasn't. There
that issue with those guys that were investigating the dark web. It turned out that the agents were stealing bitcoin to the tune of hundreds of them. Since it dollars was not the case with yes, absolutely so that the difference, the differences, a difference between systemic fraud, an individual case of fraud, so in Bitcoin, as in the traditional banking system. If, if a bank or an organization concentrates a lot of money, then you can go in and steal it view. Basely rob the Bitcoin Bank like people, rob the normal bank and how would they do that his hack into its we on the other they hack in and they do it- and this has happened many many times- and this is a problem with Bitcoin banks, as opposed to person to person exchanges correct, because the whole point of Bitcoin is that you don't need to put your money in the custody of someone else right and if instead use bitcoin as it is,
tended where everybody keeps control of their own money, then, in order to hack all of those people either have to hack the Bitcoin Protocol itself, has not happened in seven years and the way it structured is impossible to do all you have to hack each individual account holder and you can hack individual account others, depending on their level of security and sophistication. But you know get very large amounts you. You have to wait for them to give their money to someone else What was that exchange the Bitcoin Bank that started off as like a fantasy website and some what was out again This was empty box year in Japan, the match the gathering on line which we see in the early days of Bitcoin. There were no exchanges, so you ve got to think back. Like dear member on the web,
in the early days when even the the largest most sophisticated corporations had a page with a single Logan, a great background and some flashing lights, and that said under construction like ninety. Ninety four right? That's where we are in Bitcoin still so there is some There were no well run exchanges at the time it was very difficult to buy and sell. Bitcoin ends, the sky in Japan, this site that could trade these magic, the gathering online cards, he converted the site to trade currencies instead to create trade, crypto currencies, turns out it's a lot easier to hack in and crypto currencies, and it is to steal the guards. Whatever happened with that because the story was like hundreds of thousands of dollars Bitcoin, just hundreds of millions and millions zidoc vanish boy that event someone stole if they got stolen. They got
cycle through the economy in their back in the economy. Now, just not with the same owners. No one knows who no one knows who that seems bizarre. If you rob a bank like they can put a trace on the bills and they can figure it out eventually, and most people get caught right and not really, I mean no. No, they, if you, if you do buyer fraud, perhaps but in many cases with cash bitcoin is like cash. It is equally untraceable, is very difficult to actually catch like. I think recently. I was reading about the FBI, closing the debate. Her case is the guy who the bank got into seven one, seven aircraft opened the rear, staircase and jumped out of the parachute over the MID West was never seen again, never think tank. I died, though, well that that that would be a convenient explanation for the failure of the FBI to catch him yeah it would be
but also didn't like drop into the woods? I don't know the details. Never found him body or money ever again, but that can happen pretty easy. I would, be more likely or more apt to believe that if someone dropped in the woods out of parachute with some fuckin haphazard gear and leaped out of the bag, The plane they probably died. Bulgarian by bears or somethin PS or or found by a local woodsman in the cabin whose, like some some dude, fell out of the sky with Sacho full of money. My money, I need a new trains. Are that but you're steel and money from a bank can't they trade, The serial numbers like, if you still cash, leave you Oh, you know the Tsar Robbery stick em up, he pointed gonna tell her and they felt the bag with currency and you run out the door to door.
We have I got trace on that money like where they can, if you spend really ash, no, no, not really, and they they can't because they have all kinds of. I mean yes, if they had a batch of sequentially numbered clean money young, but that I'll have most bank's work. What the money they have on hand is the stuff of came deposited in the last week by various people. Ash businesses like delis, grocery stores and things like that, and they have I deal with the numbers on those bills. Are they dont trace it? It's simply considered part of the risk of business and what is is a boy db, Coopers money before Oh shit, assyrian, some of this side of my ear and some bad cable after ok, no I d be Coover ever merge investigated down, he survived and never been able determined is true identity, but a boy ding on the Columbia River River Beach. Nineteen eighty found three bundles of whether twenty
our bills. Coopers cash according to the serial numbers are dead as far they found. My son of his money was like left, saw. Spin snaky armada pretend I'm and mislead. Some of us here know they are the only found like a virus. I don't think they recovered more than a tiny fraction of it. But I don't know I mean I do remember the details. India, which deal with wonder grandma thing, was only two thousand yeah, and in those days you could pay the national debt with our money. What year wasn't like sixties? Seventy one, a lot of money in those days that Db Cooper stores an interesting story. It's people, love story, like our people, don't kick yeah, the mystery of the UN, EL, the Mount GOTS thing, this exchange is kind of a mystery to its a hundred million dollar. Many hundreds of millions Dar Mystery side story of mount gags, bitcoins, foreign and sixty million dollar disaster. For sixty three, they gather led memorial,
now, that's Marlene. Tell us who is yes, that's the guy who Korea is now out on parole. I believe forum on or pending trial, so dark eyes out, be who Sixty million dollars and he's out of course well is irresponsible. Just cause he's retorted. You know that one of the things we we don't know, and maybe we'll never know how much of that risk as for whether was deliberate with it, was an inside job whether it was simply incompetence. We will certainly there was enormous amounts of compound Norman's. That's clear, and when you listen to him to talk of I've heard him in speeches ruin his discussing the issue you like waiting at that guy, I guess exact. It's. What have you heard? Bernie Madoff talk, yes, true right, I mean the thing is the even even the most then. The interesting thing is that, just up to the day before Bernie Madoff wasn't I indicted he was the top trusted.
Name on Wall Street. He had the most stellar credit rating. He was the head of the credit rating agency for those so funds that he was rated under and the next. He's a crock. So, yes, you can. See these things happen throughout in human history, the changing the form of money used, doesn't change that. But if you change the hour picture of money. You make it less necessary and less useful. Concentrate the money in the hands of third parties. That has an impact and so that's one of the issues with this, something like Mount Parks or with any banking system, yet other than a bitcoin system with yes, The problem is the counterparty risk if you give your money to other people. The entire reason we have oversight in banking is because of the simple truth that if you give your money to other people, eventually they tried to steal it
set and the only reason they they don't get. Someone in the bank is going to have a tremendous need. The tremendous gambling problem, diction, something right. More just have a lack of empathy in and social socialization and just be Nino Crooked, but they don't even have to be crooked. They can make a mistake in training and tried to cover it up with customer money. They can have a debt there, their parent me, require an expensive surgery that they can't afford this lots of reasons why people commit financial fraud and not all of it, is because they're, just greedy evil holds back, but the bottom line is that all of the oversight system we have in banking, which, by the way fails again and again and again and again, to protects regular people from these. That's all of these Since we have exists for that one reason, so the cancer is not build better systems to watch the peace
who hold your money. The answer that Bitcoin gives is: don't let others hole your money hold your own money? And then you don't have this problem? there was a recent investigative report about a fur. In Georgia. I want to say it Lana. That has a ridiculously high rate of success with investments, and they interviewed the guy who runs it and, in his reason, for while earth so wildly successful and they make so much more money than anybody else were very suspect, and closing down the skylight it's going on over here and they think that not always Bernie made off model, not just Bernie made off, but they they think that its cause men and that there is a lot of people they that might be supplementing legitimate investments with a pyramid scheme and that its back in a standard operational model for a lot of these firms, because I ve been able to pull it off
what we ve seen again and again throughout history: in the area of finance is that when there's a recession, when there's a draw in income and profitability for every one. That event is actually really good. For cap what it does is it washes out the frauds. It washes out the failures had washed out the unprofitable businesses. It's a great cleansing event right, because the time were seeds and suddenly you see who's not wearing swimming trunks. We knew there was something fishy going on water, They look and when that happens in Wall Street, all of those companies that were set We re investing the the recent gains took to pay the people who is drawing their money or the retirees there are supporting in their pension fund, etc. Suddenly that they don't they can't do that anymore. They washed out of the business
badly performing businesses unprofitable. All of these things get washed out, we haven't being doing this and this kind for the last three decades. Instead, what happens is every time there is a recession. The FED steps in or the government stepson, and basically pump water to raise the tide again right as much as possible and that means that a lot of the crux flowed from recession to recession without getting revealed worse, it encourages that kind of behaviour, and so you get all of these businesses, whose only ability to make profits is when the interest rate is zero and this when you billion dollars a month being injected by the FED and thereby This model is take that London to consume as for twenty nine, ninety nine ap are right or do pay loans, or so prime loans or sub prime motto, student loans, mortgages, etc, etc, unity
a cleansing event to wash out the fraud? I I like the example of a forest fire. If you suppress all of the small fires, what happens is eventually you build up a lot of undergrowth in the forest. A small fire doesn't kill the trees, it just clean out the undergrowth. You keep putting out the fires which we ve seen since the seventy seven states you, let's all of the undergrowth, grow up than one far comes through its not the little forest fires are raging inferno now you can't put it out and it burns the trees and destroys the soil, sterilised atop foot of soil. We ve seen this happen right, and so this is now happening in terms of our economy, which is that all of this bubble creation Doesn't get washed out in a recession more stimulus more funding. The federal reserve pumps more money into the economy, trade of dollars since two thousand eight and all
the stimulus. Where does ago. It goes into inflating, not one babo. We had real estate, but now we have real estate and sub prime motto and you didn't loans and to end and bombs and stocks and currencies all inflating. At the same time. This impasse but to do a controlled burn for the economy. Like that's what they're doing some places where they want. Oh dear, yes, the issue that you know you're talking about others stop forest fires. That's theoretically, part of the mandate of the Federal Reserve, which most people don't realize, is a private corporation owned by the banks and not a government agency yeah. That's a tricky name, yes, said our lives, and it has nothing to do with that. Yeah yeah, car gross yeah and I can't name, say my publishing company for the book, the federal publisher. They won't. Allow me to put the word federal in
the name of my company as they shouldn't right. But in order to create an organization like that you need an act of Congress. In fact I actually, what you need is an act of Congress passed in the middle of the nights on a recess which is exactly how they pass. The Federal Reserve ACT, one thousand nine hundred and thirteen. That was a long ass time ago, keep that name. But there is federal ammunition, is to say by bullets, but he called federal ammunition, is nothing. Do the federal government interest a good good company by bullets from The easiest seems like the they control. Burn idea, how would you apply that to the economy, I mean if what what we're talking raise the interest rates he raised them. Yet It was strange with strings the swamp, raising interest rates. Basically, the interest rate can rules are cost of money. If you make money more expensive than the
to borrow it have to have a pretty good rate of investments in writ return on their investment to invest that right. Otherwise they borrow money. That's it extremely unpopular idea, the right, sorry, that across the lights in the Ets. Popular idea, because it benefits savers instead of debtors So if you, if you have savings to great idea, I remember a time when I could get a certificate of deposit for my savings in the bank and I could get three percent a year three percent a year right. I can't get point three percent now so. Savers get wiped out if you're retiree who's got all of their money and savings right now. The return, you're getting on those savings, isn't enough to cover the cost of living. So your money basically is shrinking and that's a tax on savers that benefits debtors, especially very large debtors, like the federal government, had such a complicated system than for the average per
it's working all day, and you know you get home, you have hobby and family and things that you want to do it's very difficult to get a grip on exactly how money works it is an it's one of the things I found through my experiences doing these talks that I do, and I talk about that in the book to that the whole point of this particular book, the internet of money- is why Bitcoin and I talk about the philosophy behind money that the topics of money that most people, Dont, understand, and what's really astonishing- is that here, I'm I'm I'm talking about the greatest experiments in money? started in two thousand and two thousand nine and this great experiment is completely unprecedented in the history of money and I'm not talking about Bitcoin. I'm talking about twenty- two central bank simultaneously taking their interest rate to zero and pumping the law
largest amount of money ever created into the world economy, trying to stop it from collapsing in that has created the largest bubble in history and the weird thing is that most people are not even aware that there are living in a time when we are doing this completely unprecedented untested. No one knows where it goes: huge, monitor, experiments in which two billion people our hostage as part of it at least right, and nobody knows where this is gonna go, but most economists mainstream economists, Satan. Does intend well said mean and then we have the other little monetary experiment, which is hey. Money on the internet with a strolled issuance only A certain amount of the money is created its controlled by a mathematical formula You can't make more and As a result, it's got a stable supply, it sound money and it cannot be manipulated by governments or by
What's so confusing frere? Anyone as it is when you get into the issue of what is money and whereas coming from and how does the Federal reserve? How does the government had, as anybody create more money? How do you print more money and if you are paying more money where is coming from and what is it debt write? But what is it like at? What This money is used to be gold. It used to be old standards to be. If you had a dollars dollars were the goal. That was a note that was worth a dollars worth of gold. Yes, that made sense and not stopped White first stopped in nineteen, thirty six. I believe Bretton Woods Agreement and then stopped completely one seventy one. When Nixon called closed the gold window, he basically said if any one comes to your bank and gives you one so for dollar one goal dollar and says I want my silver, you say no and basically defaulted on the backing of: U S dollars by gold. I met this really wacky.
A long time ago that was used. Car on the comic stores is really odd, guy for a bunch reasons, but why things. Is he cardigan everyone and he believed and he believed and precious gold coins that we're minted. Outside of the federal government and using knows as currency, yes, and so he would have these coins it carried with marinate. We try to pay for things in these coins. I go gold and silver coins, mostly silver, it silver coins and he was explain to me that this is legal and that the now they're supposed to accept these and it was very weird stuff- is a very, very odd. He was very annoying to swallow. Godzilla talk to you kept touching. You would talk to you in my cold. You, unlike like, grab your arm and hold you in like touch you, and Fucker WWW New York troll freak, because it is a way
control freak of someone saying something new and they are holding on to you whether saying that you, unless you're in love with them like, create very strange moment, yeah. Why you? holding me, can I get loose here? What, if, after runaway real quick draft a break, this grip, but this guy carries coins around with them. I get a fuckin sack, he likes the touch, his money hangs, Elvis off color. Frozen shit like that? Now man, they were like some weird fuckin coin, like an american eagle on omen. Does that amount, and yet there not weird bam their minted the: U S: full silver coins, and now they're weirdest fuck their weight. If you try to use them to buy a coffee, although a lot of people by these and gold coins and small gold bars as investments, they keep him in a safe right in the eye, is if there is a significant crash in the currency, then these have holding value worried. And it's not it's, I think perfectly sane to say if you have some
he put aside in savings? Don't put it all in stocks, maybe diversify put a bit and precious metals may be put a bitten. Digital currencies may be put a bit in common, for these and other things, that's kind of reasonable, investing and here's the thing. A lot of people who have these kinds of attitudes come from families and from cultures where There has been a time in the past two generations. Will you leave middle of the night with all of your belongs in a pillow case and with people with guns and dogs. After you trying to murder you- and this happens today in Syria right- it happens. One generation ago to my parents generation in in Greece with the Nazis.
It happens to the russian people, it happens to people all over the world, and when that happens, and it's it's really close when it happens generation before write, your parents tell you the stories, it's a it's a different feeling, it hasn't happens to most of, guns in at least two or three generations, but when that happens, what do you put in the pillow case? I'll tell you something? The pieces of paper are worthless when that happens, and that's why some people do want to have physical quaint. Now, one of the things we ve noticed now is that digital currencies me start to serve our role to the full act is that you can memorize twelve english words and carry your entire, but clay wallet in your head, and if you do that, while you twelve english words, what are those words novel Silken party
yeah, so you can generate a Bitcoin wallet right and then make a backup of it. And for convenience, some of the inventors and the space developed a system where you can back up any pick, one bullet, even if it has millions- and billions of transactions and assets in it. He come back it up to between twelve and twenty four words that Schwarzer generated automatically by the programme. So it could be like that speech and pulp fiction were Samuel. Jackson pulls gone. That kid That could be your password. Yes, If you don't pick the words, though you don't pick, the word, you're gonna get a series of words and they are going to be You know asparagus forests attorney, you wouldn't have all I like dicks, please. Shit on my head, yeah, no sentences and no words like that, but think about the power
being able to transport in a limited amount of money simply by memorizing twelve words that can't be confiscated from you when you're a refugee. It's amazing on the whole, the whole idea behind. It is incredibly fascinating to me and I ve been a fan of it since the time I met you and before that I was reasonably interested, but, of course, having you illuminated in such a great way. We made it much more much more enticing. Much more interesting and I've always been curious. From that point on as to where it's gonna go, and I just don't, I don't know what, look at the landscape of money, and I look at the landscape of people that are we to make this leap? I dont know what it would take to get people fully on board with Bitcoin, but I believe, like you do that. The system that we have now the banking system is incredibly corrupt and just bizarre and fragile and friend, and I
that's the thing that most people are missing. It looks giant imposing its being, therefore, a century that is not a sign of strength. Did you find them bomb company in Atlanta that has a sir massive return on your investment. That's being investigated up, and I'm not sure if I found the right kind of car. Ok, but there's gotta be a bunch of those people out there. There right yeah, absolutely that there is still a lot of it. S assist them like that, which is which is very opaque, which most people don't understand is the kind of system you want to corrupt because that's where can make the most money without anybody noticing and, of course, a financial crime is not really prosecuted in this country in two thousand AIDS
giant crisis. Millions of homeowners kicked out of their homes, illegal foreclosures, Robo, signing mills, blah blah blah blah the only person who went to jail Bernie Matter. Stole from the rich? pretty much everybody else Scot Free, interesting, is like he was just a scapegoat while he was obviously look. There was always very about. He was always a crook, but in a sociopath or somethin, surrounded by hundreds and hundreds and hundreds corks in the same scale and giant investment banks that are just as corrupt, and we don't see that's right. You you can get you can get pulled over for a busted daylight and thrown in jail in plenty of the states in this country for six months, for him an herb in your car and at the same time can put a million people out of their homes through with straight up fraud with Mount. Of evidence and emails, and things like that and their untouchable that
system that the problem isn't the fact that there is fraud. The problem is that the fact of the system itself is fragile, all of that, and if it was just them going out of business when the fragile system has problems when it has hiccups, as it did in two thousand eight that's fine. But it's not just them going out of business. It's a generation of kids who leave college with nothing waiting for them, but a mug job ends. You know coming into a generation where their parents could get by with one in coming to households and now three jobs each in a household of two, and you can't afford to buy a car, let alone a house right so weapon. Of the new sharing economy? What does the sharing a common, it's the. I can't hold anything. I can't afford anything economy so
that whole generation is now suffering because of that fragility of the system and the fragility hasn't gone away. But I dont want to dwell too much on the negative right, because the the thing that I find positive, an interesting about Bitcoin is that it serves a global society. It is truly global. Transnational money there's plenty of places. While the habit worse than the? U S, there's some places, I have it better financially, but it really is quite an incredible concept to be able to have this money that cooperate on a global basis and with that the opportunities to buy and sell and trade and invest and borrow internationally. The fact that what we did with the fund raising here to fund raise for those wells right. We dont know if that was just people in the: U S, donut,
it wasn't, I can guarantee that were people from all over the world donating that's almost impossible to do is traditional payment systems. You it is then sent that money directly toward the wells were being built again anywhere in the world and that's really exciting to me. People are uncomfortable with Bitcoin because it represents changing one of the fundamental ancient technologies of civilization money and we ve only change that technology four or five times in the history of human civilization. We ve gone from barrel once barter systems. Here's a goat, give me three chickens right, too: systems of precious metals and other nice beings. Feathers, shells, etc to exclusively precious metals too precious metal stamped with their faces of kings and then at some point,
around the fifteenth century. You start seeing certificates of deposit for precious metal being exchanged paper notes I have a deposit of gold there, I'm not gonna move the gold from my deposit to your deposit. I just give you the piece of paper that says you're now the owner and paper money is introduced, ends and then plastic in the nineteen fifties. Diners club travellers checks and the first credit cards, and if you Can you please transitions were smooth, none was smooth. You go to someone who's been using precious metals for ten generations, and you say: hey this piece of pay for his money. Like give me something shiny that I can bite that's money this paper, I don't know who you are go away. How long is that transition? Four hundred years
Until broad acceptance of paper money, four hundred years with huge resistance, it took almost forty years for credit cards to go mainstream with Bitcoin we're going to do it, probably in less than twelve. You think somebody missing an almost ten, it's an email, seven, seven yeah and its accelerating very much. I think, in some countries you're going to see either Bitcoin or a criminal currency, very similar or based on tackling be used as commonly as a national currency were not looking to displace national currencies were looking to supply. Let them I think, the idea being that people would get comfortable using multiple currencies just like many places they are. If you're operating between the border of Kenya and ten
NEA, for example, You'Re- probably going to use for different currencies, kenyan money, Tanzania and U S dollars in euros easily, possibly also South African Rand Safeguard for five currencies. You can stop it. A four year old in the street and ask them what the exchange rate isnt they'll tell you right cause eight trade for their parents. In me installs stalls along the border and they have people coming with all kinds of different currencies. It's not that difficult to assume that there is digital currencies in the future. Either there or in a major modern metropolis where people are using Bitcoin to transact on line to buy things virtual things, music, video things like that? What you want to make very very small payments, were credit cards and not suitable and use bitcoin
while I was their normal currencies. What is the progress? It makes you so optimistic click. What is the emir if you could point to any one thing or several things that make you optimistic about bitcoins future? While I think watching it, yes, as a computer scientist as a technologists. I look at this I see innovation that is accelerating. I see much of the early vision. Opening up the possibility of doing things There are so far outside what we could do with traditional money that it it often blows my mind, for example, a technology, that's being introduced into Bitcoin, now called payment channels and what it allows you to do is to do a very high volume of very small transactions at a very rapid rate
let's say you're, you want to watch a video and you want to pay the owner that video descended to you. How about paying? the second and so you say you set up basically an account and you pay. By every second of video, maybe every fifth of a second too, did milliseconds a video at a time and you're paying fraction. That is a thousandth of a penny and you keep watching videos and paying a thousandth of a penny for every fifth of a second on this drip metered basis, while you're not doing it. Your computer software is doing it communicating with our computer software, and now you can do this really incredible thing. You can pay for content what it's actually worth, whereas the threshold for payment and credit card is two to three dollars, a lesser apple in your doing billions, in which case you can take it down to ninety nine cents. That's about the low
you can go so meaning watching like something on Youtube or some similar video streaming device. You would have to pay, nervous rather you'd have to pay, but you would pay very minuscule mount. Yes, what like Woody targeted couple sense, like to watch. You know, I'm. I literally mean a thousandth of five hundredth of assent to watch a video, but depends how long the video is right. You couldn't you could be. I could be a scale, you could be a penny yeah. You could be a penny or half a penny or tens of a penny to watch a video, but what how that work for the people that are providing content. Like well, you see, the thing is they operate at a scale: have thirty thousand views fuse on one of my videos so you to pay me thirty bucks for that. If I put ads in front If I was getting a penny from each of my customers or because these are like
our long videos, maybe I'm going to charge more baby, I'm gonna charge twenty five cents, you no thirty, three. Infuse twenty five cents. Somebody do the math, please not good. Himself mass having grant. No, it's like seventy bucks. Seventy dollars. Twenty five senses a quarter of an hour. Now it said seven thousand you're right, So is a rare time we're right at a math, fuckin, quick question like that, so so make maybe I'm gonna charge less, maybe it, but in any case I can beat what Youtube gives me in terms of ad revenue with with each Some are paying a fraction of a penny and here's the real question, but I get this content for free right now interests. While I pay a fraction of a penny, you don't get it for you, You're a know you're paying me. Yes in micro violations of your privacy.
One year, if the product costs less than two or three dollars making instinct face ethically with even those weird waited word if it'll get another court, if the, if Payment is worth less than two or three dollars which means they collect, collected with a credit card. What they're doing is their selling your data to advertisers there are selling your identity or demographics united to advertise the serious here, you're, getting your having to give up things you don't! them up. At that moment, you ve given them a previously when you registered for the thing and very find your email and then verified your age and Europe. Gender and provide at all this demographic information which they then parcel up and give to the advertisers but you're still paying for the car,
and what's your paying by the fact that you can no longer engage with the web without it being filtered to what they think you want and who they think you are right, so you're getting this highly filtered pigeonholed few of Content- and they do that using your information to present what they think you would like to watch based on what they ve sold. Advertisers you're no longer a customer you're the product, the customers, the advertising agency, whereas If you sell content directly, you raised I wish the relationship of who is the creator and who is the customer, the consumer of the content and you cut out the tomb don't tell me you're, cutting out advertising, good luck and also the thing is: like people don't want to pay, even if its fraction of a penny they just don't want to pay. I disagree dealing with people there's a lot. Hopes at Watch Youtube all day like they sent further computer. They slack jaw from
morning to night and they just watch Youtube videos. If they just calculated fractions of penny, all data would be dollars and dollars every day, which would mean the hundreds of dollars every few months. All you guys think about. This is a broader economy, because a lot of these people could also earn a bet. By making a good comment, which actually ends up. Bring some of our costs, the viewing so that you gotta, think. Oh, you can earn from comments yeah, that's where it gets really interests, blockchain on this that you're talking about. No, you could do this with back when you could do this with blockchain you. What is the difference in blockchain, Bitcoin, sorted hijacked and no no problem. So blockchain is one of the technologies used in Bitcoin. It's a distributed database where all of the transactions are linked together. Using cryptographic proves big is one implementation of a blockchain and blockchain has now been uses. Marketing term means very little. It's kind of like web.
Who'd auto we don't really know what it is. It's a lot of, red dot, oh yeah yeah, which is blockchain, that's ironic as it. If it is in its nebulous, but the point is that you can do more than just currency early. We were talking a bit about trolling on twitter and other platforms like that before the life broadcast. Well. Think about What a troll is doing, what they're doing is their stealing attention they're taking attention without contributing anything back to the community? There is an interesting and fairly effective market solution. To this, which is that of assigning someone to do oversight and decide who is and who isn't a troll and sensor them. You basically allow people to contribute.
And a minuscule fraction for the comments they like the apparel like thumbs up, but with each one of those likes and thumbs up your touch, a ten thousandth of a penny with it you irrelevant, small, tiny money and then the p. Who write comments that are broadly preceded that add value community earn a tiny bit of money, not really anything serious, but if they tried to come- and they have to spend a bit of that credit that they ve learned that reputation that they ve earned and if they're not a troll it doesn't it What comes out equal in the wash? They don't end up spending anything they don't end up learning anything. It's just participation in community finish. Their troll suddenly starts getting interesting because now gets expensive to steal the attention of the community. Because the less you have positive feedback, the more expensive it gets for you to power post until eventually your priced out but does that also Ross
Oh, can town of enforcer or encourage confirmation buys, because, if you go to a website. That's just completely ridiculous and it's a message board filled with morons, and you argue with them. You hook, it cost you to argue with morons who's gonna down value. Yeah yeah. It could just choose to not comment, but you could you ve, got think about this again across a broader economy, where a broader ceta forums in which, in some you are valued experts and other you're, the idiot, whose arguing against the conventional wisdom and ends. You know you can actually balanced these things. Out of you, go to a flat earth forum and argue those people money. And yes, I had an argument with someone about come trails. How that go they don't really went very, very interesting Lee. I wasn't expect them to change their minds. And they really wanted to hear my opinion and it was
interesting because we started the conversation. I said: ok, first, I'm a pilot. I have a pilots license. I fly small planes that puts Europe extreme advantage, yes, conversation, but will you think You would think that its I mean it's not it's not appeal to authority, it saying those nozzles that your pointing out, I know, What those are I have to I have to walk around the plain before I take off make of them of correctly attached in the place. They should be doing the thing they should be doing. Otherwise. I dont see I have the flight, so you are part of the camp trail. Sprayers Association of America is saying: yes, it s pretty much. The conclusion. We wonder, though, what are those nozzle
actually in the in the end of the ones pointing Ford are called Peter tubes and their use to measure the velocity of the aircraft through the air by pressure differential and the ones pointing back, Courts are usually to break up of fortresses LISA we'll swirl leap, currents of errors come off the wing, the cause turbulence, and you want to break, up, so they don't swirl by the way. The trails, clouds. How long have you been a shell, the water, the? U S, government? Indeed, of course, I'm Michel, I Michel. I can't believe it means I'm interested. They shut off Jamie. You have had these conversations with six an unspoken restraining? You can present mountains of evidence if someone really really doesn't want to believe the they really will not believe What is also mean it's been going on for ever I mean if you go back to nineteen forty sirs pictures, black and white photos from World war, one or one or two rather or you can see,
planes leaving behind these enormous controls. So it's a stupid argument, I mean really is mean we have known for a long time that, depending upon how much more measures in the atmosphere when planes pass through it. They will create clouds residence. Real, simple russian chain? does a temperature of the air, and it creates clouds and its usual an hazy days. Not only that, but NASA has a website where you can no to any more accurately predict contrary as I do that that is those are from propeller engines in nineteen fortys. And what what's happening is that color is compressing the air and when it comprises the air, the changing pressure changes to do point, and the dew point is what determines though the arab moisture condenses into a visible vapor into droplets that are clouds. And so by pushing a thing. Through the air pressing on the air and when you press on the air that causes condensation form
That conversation follows you in a circle of cloud behind the plane, and this happens at any playing propeller plain and I've. I've it is in Force Cedar Cessna, that's that smaller than a than a fee sedan right, honor a on a wet day. You can see love trails coming off the tipps of the wings and I pretty sure it and put any spray nozzles. There were flip this way. I didn't I saw this, which, incidentally, can trail them, and I didn't flip it. I didn't don't how much liquid you would have to hide in your plane and artists spray, these enormous jets across the sky, meaning be insane to be insane him and if the entire plain was filled up, means filled You would have so much liquid it'll be visible from the ground floating in space and then it'll
to be bought. You know I did that television show on Syphon called Joe Rogan questions. Everything in one of the things that I question was cultural, so talked too much TIM Trill AIR quote experts and One of these guys had this study that he has done on water and the standing water study was proving that this bring in the air was making, aluminum. It was putting aluminum in the water and the water supply and So he had this water tested, and so I shall be the test. Gonna be the test towards his sludge and he goes well. It was worth I gave the more. I go. Ok, but it says sludge like the laboratory that you sent this stuff too slow. And while he was, I will what it's exactly sludge was definitional like. Well, let's google it so we googled sludge and what slow Jesus water mix with dirt says Ok, so your water mix with dirt contain
in aluminum do do you know how much aluminum there is in dirt, because it's the exact amount that they tested when they tested the world, the water that you had with dirt. So what happened? Is your dirt did positive for being dirt here, using that as proof that the Government is sprang the skies above everybody's head, and you want to talk about like up his poor cost, effective shit back program. That does absolutely nothing can surely be. It causes Do an like. No one gets sick, no like rise in illnesses. There's no like mine control, going on there's nothing. There are things that there is no mind control going on there s mind, control going on. There is no mind to draw them, I mean it's
this fuckin learning to be easier to just put it in your municipal water supply. Will I mean, as arguments do and that its well, of course, of course, I am that they move it with the planes to the US or sprang drops falls in the wars by an age or something like that anyway. Yes, bring themselves to by the way, with their immune to a because their lizards and other down. Here too, So you say the sky indiscriminately remain. I guarantee some Illuminati sergeant sprayed. I'm gonna get some hate mail for this. I know well yeah for sure we're getting a right. Now. People are wiping shadows after greasy little fat, fuck and fingers right now and hammer in at the keyboards ready shells? It's the Damas, it's what There's a guy who runs what is the website met? A bunk met a bunk dot com when a systemic anyway, he
yeah. He calls it. The training wheels for conspiracy dearest causes above your head re, seeing it all the time you and what is going on there. Why silver cloud Ike? What is that you start thinking man the government's doing something secretly? Yes, Mapquest! Thank you. Oh metabolic deep Look at this he's a shield. Debunked debunk, debunk debug debunking, but he got death threats. Hate mail when he came on that tv shows me oh yeah now this is the guy this is. How does this hedge fund manager make so much money? Look at em, just look at em, Sweden will get, is look at this annual returns of thirty percent, twenty four percent or even ninety one percent. Since two thousand thirteen tell anybody outdone either if access the computer program and have to pay for a decade up front, and if you leave, he gets half the principle Gee? I wonder how it works. Jesus fucking Christ, you crook,
why it's hold on a second clue, glues, clients are unsure how it's done. In Josephine Meyer Junior, the man behind the obscure hedge fund owl June LP is keeping his cards close to Jesus Christ, investment. Most of his clients, money and safe treasury bonds. Yet safe is fond of you can't take it money for ten years. You know everybody in there can take their money for ten years. That's insanity, that's insane that's the kind of like I mean you, don't know the sky, but look at that was that what is that? Besides, I don't know- I mean if you guess if I had to guess I'll, give you two options: yeah, legit or scam, Yes, I don't know I would say it is most likely a policy scheme which is something people throw around a lot, but here's. The interesting thing is Why do these schemes happen right, look. It does offer he off
as an extraordinary guarantee. With our June, you ever lose, might work for Israel can name, I think that's actually part of the definition of investment fraud is guaranteed returns and so If you make a guarantee like that, it's usually one of the triggers that gets people investigated. He doesn't, but you never lose money the great investment it's fantastic investors should get involved. Here, Nobody listened Bitcoin that and yet solidify it. Yeah ok I'm is going to do the opposite. If you invest your money and It can, you will lose money wow you will you will gain? you will lose money, you will gain money, you will lose, we don't know, that's no one. And- and I want to be really careful about this, because many people go out and they push these things as investments, and you can have.
A lot of volatility, and sometimes when you have a lot of policies, some people get lucky and they make a lot of money, and some people are great at picking their moment and then action. They bail out, make a ton money like right now worth six hundred bucks. If you bought it back when it was like Was it the lowest point, the low, the lowest point lowest lowest about a thousandth of a dollar, thousands of dollars or two to six hundred. You says now here you could so I mean she put in like a fuckin, big pile money, guess five grand If you took it out the wrong moment, you would lose all of it, and this is why this isn't this. Isn't a speculative instruments where people can speculate in it when it but who are isn't I'm sorry review, but isn't a welcome poisoned for the financial well with speculative investing wet? What people do? It seems like it shouldn't, be legal and what's really fucked up about it. Is that they're doing
without the rhythms and their their gambling and their there there buying and selling within. No it a fraction of a second and they're doing it. The point where there was a radio lab podcast where they talked about how investment firms. Did you see that one lesson that we have heard that what you were investment firms moved there, sir, servers closer to the exchange, so the you get in there their orders and their exchanges quicker there s smile, New Jersey, where the data center of the that none of the stock trading happens in Manhattan. It happens across the water and me Piracy as data centre. There were probably the largest amount of money moves ever and they have measured, runs a fiber, meaning in order to be fair, the fibre optic cable between the Serbs. So do the trading and every one of the rocks that are in the room, our measure to be the equal length so that these
beat of light limitation across a room of a hundred feet does not advantage one customer over another resigned credible. We're talking microsecond right, young people have been forced because of this, move their offices from the middle of the country where they were to write their or rent space, where their servers are right there. It's really It's so bizarre because a lot of stuff is actually done with computers. So these computers are operating on an algorithm, the algorithms recognise patterns. They start these exchanges and they buy. And sound buying sound, buy and sell, and do all of this with infractions of a second go. Over the last decade, most trading floors have seen ninety percent of their traders disappear so there empty rooms, you can see photos all its online where it shows before and after photos of very big banks. Like you be essence, Morgan Goldman Sachs companies like and you see their training floor and it is empty because,
lot of that, has now moved to algorithmic treated so strange, what a weird weird way to invest and biased, Thank you another that, oh, my god, run after and it's not because they're making less money right. This has not resign. If it's not a downturn this during this time, they ve actually made more money, but there's something about those. Stock exchange, videos that were in movies bye, bye, cell, sound they get hands up in there. To these and five or even their hold it up pieces of paper that is so daunting. All that stuff is so confusing to a person on the outside. Looking at that and try to figure out what the fuck those people are doing, I get it seems exciting and chaotic and vibrant, but so confusing right. But that is that as the american economy right now essentially suppressed and confidence, all that's happening here. So should we talk about a slightly different topic? Sure? What have you
I want to tell you about some of the new developments that are happening in Bitcoin, which I find interesting, and I'm not gonna Shoaled possesses not really about a company or a specific products, but I want to talk about one of the things that has me excited which is a what happens when you combine technology. That looks very much like peer to peer Napster or Bittorrent wiz a merchant service like Ebay, and you create this hybrid technology, which is a completely peer to peer store service, called open, bizarre In the end, this is basically a system where you run on your computer software. And you can open a store to delivery. The physical goods or virtual goods have them listed, have found by others and then all of them, in Sudan, in Bitcoin, so
decentralizing. The payment system we can also do centralize the the store system completely and it is a complete the borderless multinational open ends p. To peer, open source software merchant system running on top of it going which I just find fascinating the ability for anyone to open a store, especially in countries where you don't have Ebay right be able to sell goods and services, and where in the world and receive payments in in Bitcoin operational yep ends, I'm selling that book on open bizarre. So. How does one access open bizarre to to the luddite? They they run software fees?
restriction and they downloads the software run it on their computer fund, the Bitcoin Walton, which sits on their computer. They don't have to give their money twenty one, there's no intermediaries and you by directly from the store and the person running the store, is running the same software. Well, let's see what's the things that they have available, we went to open bizarre dot org down on the programmes for another way, look, ok yeah. If you go to do, oh search is a search engine on top d o s, e r, Dots age, so do oh search is so because this is an open protocol. Because all of the listings are in a peer to peer network. You can, go online, I run a search engine and create a search engine searches, the store Why does the third party that just has a search engine for searching the store? So you can? You can see
John Line their ends. Tell it what you're looking for and find something from tee shirts to Gary get using find my daily ok, but not that's, not what I want to look again by a flip phone. Go back there, you get a phone Ferrari what's going on there. A lot of these doors are going to flip phones now, Twenty bucks for a cry of Sarah, that's an algae, algae. Forty four goddamn bargain. Have you ever thought about going full upon me It's ok, I'm into the opposite category. I haven't actually receives a phone call on my phone, probably in three years in really not if I dont know how a fallen I held out here. I have a portable computer, which also The phone function on it that I keep switched off. You keep it off. Pretty much here is as a ring ever it doesn't ring, but Margaret taxed you, but people text you, yes, but that actually gets rid of
it's, my email? So I don't do text I died. I do it through there. Elsewhere, email. So when I send you, a text does really go to use. A text now comes through to Google. Hang us! You are one awareness I know I use it as a portable computer. It's my communicator device that the phone function is irrelevant to me, but don't you ever one talk to me Why? Don't you go hey MA? Am I doing I do video talks must I know time I, when I talk to people it's on with their citizens, it'll be De Cbd, oil, organic, pure raw natural see me to see. That is where the goddamned governments gonna come in and close this whole thing down. What are you do and mitigating pain. You piece of shit, we're gonna, come in with dogs and bite. You
yeah they're, probably actually only selling that within Oregon within its jurisdiction where its legal rights, because they can sell it within that jurisdiction from that jurisdiction and is perfectly legal, Royal Colorado, eldest son. It's growing in getting in size is funny talk about how weird you are, he showed by Andrews has a apple laptop, and I was like how dare you walk in here with an apple product? I expect you have some Linux Box because he's running Linux on his apple computer but it's still alive. They are now also running Linux. I'm running a bunch of things, but yeah it's a beautiful piece of hardware like it. That doesn't mean I, like everything else: but he does only just don't like the restrictive aspects of yeah yeah you're all android right. Yes, I am unless what are you using now, which I have a nexus five, that's ok, so the newest in the latest, greatest of the Google phones, so runs
the pure Google, or did you God said no carrier branding its? I bought eye on the phone. I am not at least while does, the newest latest and greatest Andrews phones or at the very least commensurate with newest and latest his greatest iphones. I think- the average person the slight differences in in hardware really, irrelevant at this point. Why one does matter, however, is watch you and can do with the software and how much of your life it controls and how much privacy you have with the software that IRAN on these devices, as you may have noticed, I'm all about control and privacy being able to control my money well my devices control my privacy and I think that's that should be a principle that we should all celebrates its fundamental freedom and were gradually
sing it while I'm a big fan of options as well. So I am happy that androids come along and created options right because it was for a long time was like yeah it's an option, but it sucks right and now it's it's not just mean Galaxy S. Seven of Europe must, without that Samsung Galaxy are silent phenomena yeah it's a phenomenal phone, the I mean it. Easily as good as an Iphone. It's amazing phone throwing into a gear of ye are headsets and you get fully immersive YE. Are that is mind blowing I actually have a little had set that I can put this phone into and tv are stubs but it's not as good as the issue survive by front Duncan, don't get us as the five I also pay thirty dollars for my headset. She said Lion is what twelve hundred sprawly suddenly that slight difference in price. Yes, there's Jeffrey difference in price, but is
is very encouraging that not only is there a competitor to apple, but it is actually equal. Now, I think the more options people have like that, the better there are forever body and a dive benign, if there is a commensurate operating system. This is not really the well, no, not really for fur. Geek heads like me: it's Lennox, but essentially what happened is because Lennox was so successful. It became Android. Android was built on top of Linux. Essentially it is. It at its very corridors Linux right, but why don't they make their carbon operating system for a computer for laptop? As from what I can tell really, laptops are gradually disappearing laptop market is disappearing really really fast to there were some announcements from apple they're, changing some of their operating system commitment but they're, making the seven the other
making the operating system more and more, like I, alas, and gradually diminishing the importance of of laptops, because most people do pretty much everything they need to do on their smartphones. Nowadays it is, It makes a difference that it's nice that I can take my phone with me I have the larger. I found that these are most time and I also Samson phone, but the large, I found that I use most atomic can take with me and I don't feel like I'm missing a laptop, but if I need to work definition, some stuff down. I want a laptop xyz Gore or get up and when If I'm writing, especially, I want to build a work yeah you want to be able to also plug in headsets and listen to music. While I'm working and also have power at the same time and took a lot of a big fan of a stroke, it is like an actual computer at home, with a yellow, detached keyboard and a real monitor mean decide just think those things there's somebody
if it's those things to someone who writes in particular dear Don T, think the great american- Novel- is being written by thumbs right now, we'll see right was running a whole book and tweets yeah yeah. He's writing a novel in tweets yeah that got united on a real keyboard for this all your book of money were for people who are listening so What else is exciting for you? now about Bitcoin, so I think one the things we ve. Seen that that has been quite interesting is that it has become easier and easier and easier to use and easier to get into Bitcoin and easier to use bitcoin in your everyday life, I remember a time when it was very, very difficult to do all of those things now There are probably six or seven hundred exchanges round the world. You talked about empty dot in Japan, the first. Bitcoin exchange. The really the first major Bitcoin exchange at the time.
It was the exchange there were no others and thou was both a single point of failure in a weakness for Bitcoin, as it proved but it also made a very difficult now there are at least four. I've major exchanges operating in the. U S very easy to access access the system to connect. It may be to a bank account or debit card and two if you want to convert dollars to Bitcoin or Bitcoin, two dollars I mostly on the other side, iron Bitcoin, and then I convert twenty dollars to pay for things that I campaign Bitcoin very easy to do that. That's a major advancement that makes it much easier for people to get involved as much as they want. They dont have to earn ever. They don't have to do. There's a company called bit wage,
which allows you to take a percentage of your paycheck and have it sent to you and Bitcoin and it's very easy for an employer to set it up with any of their traditional payroll systems where they say you can say just like. I'm gonna put two percent of my account into a savings account and ninety eight percent. In my checking account a lot of companies offer that will now. You can say- and I also want to put two percent of my paycheck every month into this- ends to the employer. Looks like a routing number and account number On the other end, it gets converted into Bitcoin and sent to your bitcoin wallet, so you can very easily incorporate this is part of your everyday life now another thing. I'm gonna try and show this in a way that doesn't cost me a big problem with my finances, but how it cause you.
Problem of someone slots. Hungary and other credit card number. I say so this is this: is an he super crypto a Bitcoin credit card. It's a between debit card. And basically, it operates in one of the exchanges in the. U S offers this and actually two or three in the: U S and now offer this kind of service now. What's behind? This is a Bitcoin wallet side on have dollar, in this, I have Bitcoin in this, but when I went to the coffee shop where I got this coffee earlier today. I swiped this, and do they look at you sideways? No, I mean they can't tell that they see if he's a card as we saw in the front rank, is debit, visa doesn't say Bitcoin anywhere and so I make a payment, and I get a low message on my phone that says we ve debited zero
point: zero, zero, zero, two bitcoin from your account for your purchase. Add the coffee shop so get even Tipton Bitcoin. Yes, Here's where it gets interesting. You know I travel all around the world to do these talks in these conferences, some constantly on the roads and I've tried again and again with my bank account to tell them listen. I travel when it traveling, Sir, all the time Where are you travelling next o sixteen different? countries in the next seven months you just put a note somewhere. My account that says do not block his visa. If it shows up somewhere, we don't expect because this person travels American Express, can do it, my bank cat, they simply can't they me twenty four hours before I leave to call them, the specific list of places that I'm going to be and one don't do that when I try to use my card, it gets blocked until I come back to the U S and talk them on the phone.
And a whole bunch of questions about whether it was really me who bought you know a pastry in Prague or so thing like that, and then that all block it and what's happened to repeat it We in the last few months is I'll go somewhere. My card will get blocked because I forgot to tell them and then I'll pull out the bickering card into works everywhere without fail, because it's a prepaid because it's a debit everywhere without fail. If I need to move more money into it, I need to take money cash out of an atm when I'm travelling. I can use it and it's so much easier. I can simply transfer bitcoin into that account. And ten minutes later, I can withdraw that in cash and any currency in any country. You say that with such glee, its Phoebe and no Bryce so excited about you, air, its daddy. You can't hide it. I get it. I get excited about these things because it may
Citi, easy for me to use Bitcoin Ryan and yes, it's visa, and you know the evil empire, the banking system, etcetera, etcetera, but for many people who are going to experience Bitcoin as an a no currency in their life when they use for online purchases having the flexibility to use both and making it easier and more transparent is how you get to mainstream adoption, especially in the developed world Would someone get a hold of one of those cards hurry hurry? They just open an account with an exchange. They have to do all of the Patriot ACT. Bank secrecy act show me be proof of rest, once a etc, but in the end they get a visa card and but exchanges are available for getting visa debit cards like that. The names on shore. In the U S: COIN Base when basement come and bit by bit paid our come. Both offer visa debit cards,
in many countries around the world as Apple Ex, a p o offer a debit card and there's a there's, a bunch of others. There's a bunch of interesting, that's interesting, that's actually very promising that makes it practical So that's one side, then a few other things that have happened in this space certain we have seen a lot of them banking industry realised that they can actually use this technology and not- just fear it, and you know we have this, and I certainly bring this view of banks- is giants caricature dinosaur, evil things, but within them just normal people right swept up in the institutional inertia of this beast, but there's people who some of them get it. They get there This is an exciting and interesting and disruptive. They want to use it when, in the banking system and they're trying to work from within, to get people interested in this
and we're seeing more and more of these organizations gradually try to find ways to adopt this technology, to streamline and to improve banking itself this is very similar to what we saw in the early nineties when the internet started happening much more mainstream the phone companies at first thought tooth and nail: they they fought the service providers tried not to give them access to their lines, tried to kick them off the and not give them dsl networks at the time they felt that the FCC they try to control it. And eventually they all became. I espies right, so actually jumped on the bandwagon and used it to improve their own infrastructure. Now, if you make a phone call on a regular additional old phone. Your phone call is going over the internet, almost ninety percent shore,
that it is so they wouldn't let the internet beyond the phone network. Now the entire phone network is on the internet, but if flipped that's called infrastructure and version, in the early days of the automobile. They wouldn't let automobiles and towns to begin. They would disrupt horses. A horse traffic right they had all kinds of weird laws, including in in the UK. Has the law which required someone to run ahead of the car with a red flag, call the red like act. The wonders for the british automobile industry, which was twenty years ahead at the time and then wasn't wow that kind. Reactionary behaviour is very common in new technologies and then infrastructure inversion. Happens eventually, the thing that was considered impossible, that roads would be paved to make automobile travel practical everywhere happens and horses were quite happy to ride on roads right, whereas for automobiles was almost impossible to use in our world
it muddy road. When you have four wheel drive vehicle trying to compete against they for hoof. Dr Animal, and in those early days they pointed out that said. Look, this thing is never going to work phobias and never gonna happen because you don't have the infrastructure, but if you have the need infrastructure happens and we see that was with the automobiles enough. Extra city. We see that with the internet. We see that with all other. Technologies and now We're gonna, see it again with money, because if you have this technology building the banking institutions On top of this is easy, but making bitcoin or other for two currencies. Making the internet of money play by the rules of the old banking system is also impossible, now: alike, that expression, crypto currency and crypto currencies. One is to stop banks from crime, in their own crypto currency and what means
What is so wonderful about Bitcoin in comparison to other cryptogams? Now, that's a great question. There is nothing to stop them. In fact, there are already doing it. Yes, first of all, you ve got to realise there is more than a thousand crypto currencies already a thousand yes more than a thousand years First one was the one we should avoid that at least this almost nine hundred long, yeah, I mean It's a long tail right, there's a couple that are interesting that offer different perspectives, but We were seeing a lot of private institutions interested in creating their own and there's nothing stopping them from doing that, but they have to make a fundamental choice:
They can either create something things that is controlled contains with specific outlines and borders with controlled access permission access as they would call it, and that by definition, is not global, it can't be global. It has to be contained within a specific jurisdiction because that's how there they operate. Both corporations and banks operate within specific jurisdictions, so they can do that but then it has to be close to two innovation close to permission and not global and transnational. It's a walk. Bitcoin has I'm not just pick one, but any public open cryptocurrency of a global nature like Bitcoin is that you don't need to ask permission. Join. You don't need to ask permission to innovate. You don't need to ask permission to create a new application and any applicant
You're right will instantaneously work anywhere in the world to anyone without permission, that's the magic of Bitcoin and, if you think about it, that's also the magic of the internet. That's why the end it has been successful because it allows anyone to join without permission connect to any application. Service. They want right and application and launch a globally without asking the company. If they're allowed to do that, there is no one to ask permission from ends. Extend that analogy, but they also tried to build private internet and there still trying comp you serve AOL, Prodigy and the early clothes networks that had their own content, that you could connect to that weren't part of the internet and then, after that corporatism. That's it. We heard of the internet firm right. So when you have an internal network within a company that has stale content crap
applications and doesn't talks the rest of the world and is behind firewalls. That's an inch that intra in trot and they ve built those in They sometimes serve very useful purposes, but they're, not the internet, and you can scale them and make them secure and make them useful enough. So essentially that would exactly be what would happen with money if local banks or national banks, yes, so to follow, from the title. The internet of money is a very powerful expression. Does it really explains what this is? This is the internet of money, which means it's open, borderless global and requires no permission to participate and people will try to create the internet of money? and it will have all of the limitations that the traditional banking system has so. Yes, they can come along and do that end
The nice thing is that people don't have to make a choice to use one or the other. The only system of monopoly we have is that you have to use them national currency of the country. You were born in a new livin in order to pay the government of that country. Other than that you are free to use any currency you want anywhere. Some of us are very many of us are not and Bitcoin fits into that model. It's the if you want to use it for this particular use, use it will have a view. Extrapolate were all this stuff is going. If you you look at em, if you are correct, over the next twenty years, Bitcoin really does emerge as not just now. Optimal currency worldwide, but is up there with everything else and and maybe even preferred by lot of people that are in the no or tech savvy or what have you if there really does take place
it's gonna slowly but surely erode a lot of the major problems that we have with society today. As far as this government, having massive amounts of control over the economy and the banks being the ones who sort of enforce them The kind of laws that have allowed the mortgage crisis is and allowed these bubbles to occur and also to fund and help fund The politicians that enable them to keep these laws in place, you mean all that sort of is a lot of that is because of power, a lot of them power is go away if something like crypto currencies emerge
as being the predominant way that we use in exchange money. That's the optimistic weight to look at it now. The less optimistic way to look at it is that over the next decade we are going to gradually move into a cashless digital one, society we're gonna, do not now with like apple. We are doing that already and there are some countries that are completely cashless, really where there are very close to completely cashless the pump. Ironically, one of the one of the countries that has a very high degree of digital money? Is Kenya can begin, of em pay so which is the mobile money they have, which has now taken over a significant percentage of the we are also seeing in scandinavian countries now caches less. That, I think, is less than eight percent of firm of, though a product use of money as other using credit cards, is what you're saying I credits debits mobile.
Pay would it? What is Kenya's M pay? What is in place text message, money text message money, yeah. It's money you can send through sms started off as basically people exchanging minutes. Mobile minutes that were transfer by us it s in this using it as currency then eventually became officially a corresponding currency to the Kenyan Pesa announced the predominant currency it's in in most places from what I understand I haven't been scanned yet, but I talked to a lot of Kenyans to tell me yeah. We we all use that, and only that use cash. We don't use credit cards while it is quite shocking, but here's the problem, the problem, as we are going to additional current society. Were cash? Will be gradually eradicated either through non use or a lot of countries and a lot of governments are trying to actively ban it. So putting limits on how much you can use cash say. You know
thousand dollars, and if it's more than that in dollars using caches, illegal work go to the society. We have to really think about the implications. Do we want a society in which our digital money is under complete surveillance and complete control? Where if you go to the wrong protest or if you support the wrong political campaign, or, if you make came to the wrong person or receive money from the wrong person? Suddenly, your money disappears. It's no longer yours anymore. It's frozen its seized, it's gone, and some one has control of that corporations. Banks, governments and in most cases there is no difference between corporation banking governments right and so that's once and are you and the other scenario? Is one
which individuals control their money and it is digital money, but its digital cash like Bitcoin where'd. You can pen individual from one person to another, just like I can with cash today without any other party getting involved, What really strikes me as amazing is tat. We ve gotten used this idea so quickly, which is that no longer pay people we longer pay people directly, the less we use cash, the more we pay people through a corporation right so from tipping your valet tipping your taxi driver to tipping wherever tipping is pretty much the the last remaining part of our society. Or cash, is used to pay from one person who is not an incorporated entity toward not the person who is not an incorporated anti everything else. You have to pay for a corporation, whether it's a bank right, whether its venerable, whether it
pay pal where there at any of those things and we ve gradually gotten used to this environment, where we can't pan The person, unless there's a corporation involved and that's astonishing to me and as cash disappears. That then becomes a final fact that every single payment in your life will be from you to a corporation and their cooperation takes a piece of the single thing and not just that. It doesn't just take a piece. It also controls and prevails and monitors you're use. And if you violate the terms and conditions you are destitute, so our so that the issue is not what we have today versus the digital currency of the future or Bitcoin or whatever its both futures are digital currency and in both futures, cash will no longer exist. That is inevitable. We going down that road, and now we
to choose. Do we go to the digital cashless society of corporate control over money with the complete and total merging of corporate and state money? Where, instead of having separation of state and money, have the merging of states and money and corporation and money where your money is branded money, you have chase dollars, You have gone missing scholars. You have Coca COLA dollars right, you have money that is controlled by a corporation, or do we go down the the future, where we have money, the despair, sickly. An internet protocol that is completely global, any person can pay any person they meet in the streets without any corporations getting involved. Just for me to you, digital cash That's really the it's a less optimistic view, because I am fully aware of what the other future is and it's already playing out, and it is in my opinion, a very dangerous future. This is so
fascinated to make as it so speculative and I When you don't know, what's going to happen and someone presents a bunch of different scenarios and get the mine starts to wonder and Then you also sort of plan for the future like it becomes likes, Thank you, become something to look forward to your bed on, By a bet, it's gonna work like this, or I bet you because we really don't know right mean and what? What is the resistance that Bitcoin is facing from standard, financial, inst! tensions that are in control right now, because There must be some form of of resisting and is there any factory involved, Is there any sabotaging of Bitcoin that has been suspected or prove it? I think I, I don't really know if there's any sabotaging going on. So that's that's. That's reclaimed! Spected, I'm not going to make any any claim. Alcoves wink at me tumbled or what
I'm going to talk about is the progression of what happens when a job and well established, financially station spin around for fifty years or a hundred years is faced with a disruptor that they cannot tempt down they cannot shut down. Sue by CO, opt eradicate and legislate against, right and in what happens, then, is what I call the five stages of grief. First, we start with denial so an end. We saw this play out exactly like this with the banking industry. The first reaction was denial. Bitcoin can't possibly work it's, not real money, it doesn't really exists, it has no oh you. It will never survive fast forward. Five years you keep making them argument becomes less and less credible because its real money, yet big metal birds,
brought me to LOS Angeles today was paid, was not money so. You can claimants not money all day long and I've been living on it for three years, which kind of undermines the argument right. If I, earn it to my spend it than people give me rides and big metal birds its money. So that isn't, working it's going to go away on its own. It's going to die it's going to lose all its value every time it dumps in value they cheer is like finally pick one is dead, they write another obituary. We publish them on Bitcoin Obituary. Com, to make fun of them later now has a hundred and ten obituaries, I think, published every time they say will die, which has every two months again. Denial only works for a while. Then they go into anger. It the money of terrorists, criminals, pedophiles pornographers and the unsavory elements of this world, pitiful, that's
ways the one they pull out right. They love these out when they find one thing right, pedophile use, Bitcoin, pedophile currency, exactly dirty trick. It is a bit of it. It is a bit of a bit of a dirty turk trick and they ve tried to do this, again and again and again they did it with internet rights that the internet, when I first came out they You heard this media narrative, the maids. It sells papers itself. It then sell clicks at the time cause it we're doing it about pensions, that it sells papers, which is the idea that the internet, a haven of crooks and fraudsters. Terrorists and Peter files and pornographers, great yes, criminal, you, advanced technology, criminal use, the most advanced technology. They can get their hands on costs. In a very highly competitive, high margin, high risk business and, of course, they're going to take.
Criminals, wear shoes to run away from bank heist. Criminals drive cars to get away from brought bank robberies. They use cell phones to coordinate with each other. They drew quarter so as not to die of dehydration? We're not gonna ban all of those things right, and so you have that anger and they tried that for a while. Every time they tried out. You just turn around and say: oh well, you know. Actually, the biggest money launderers of drugs in the world are a b c, the Hong Kong Hong Kong shrank by banking consortium I encourage you in fact, their residues there's no world. Yes, they were caught money laundering, seven hundred billion dollars for the sinhala cartel over a period of ten years during which Nineteen thousand people died in Mexico as a direct result of that, and they got a fine and no one too.
So you either inconvenient facts like that: every time they say, Bitcoin terrorism? You say them driving Toyota in Hungary's forehead that doesn't that's a bidding congruence like their their driver, turn around in the vehicles we left behind and there they got a lot of their funding from pilots of money that we left behind and they're getting paid for dollar in dollars for oil that their selling to our closest allies. We shouldn't really mention Saudi Arabia, so These are the inconvenient truth right, so you don't talk about these and polite company, or at least you do, That's what I said what I was invited to the to speak in front of the Senate and care and they started asking about terrorism and, I said actually mostly funded by our allies and what are they? So that was the end of that train of thought. They stopped. You know it was life public tv, but what would
like what went down? No, we moved on to talk about more realistic and interesting things in a much more positive view of what this thing is, so they tried to discredit Bitcoin by attaching into terrorism. You inform them of the facts of where terrorists are actually funded from in a very public forum on LIVE Tv, which is very difficult to continue that line of conversation. So that's anger. Is their resistance in Canada like there is in the United States, or no actually, they ve been very, very positive, very positive to towards towards crypto currencies in general, young, cheating and A lot of development going on there. Isn't that much systems in the United States. Really, thanks are shutting down bank accounts. In some cases we see that in the United Kingdom too. What is the right right now like? What's the percentage of people that are using Bitcoin on a regular basis, it's very difficult to say
primarily because there is Clear Association between one person in one bitcoin address or are there is no account right too, to use Bitcoin to do his download than application on your phone. Nobody, you don't have to register or anything so ass. A result is just like how many I he addresses are in use. Does that tell you anything about how many people are using the internet? You can't really tell that's a good thing: it's it's! Because of its nature: I would say we're, probably looking at about two to four million users start as very interesting based on active, t levels based on login to websites that some of them, the publish results, it's very hard to. Say for sure exactly how many mostly concentrated in the at the moment so plus or minus one percent somewhere in the range of one percent of the United States population on this score, oh globally. Globally. It globally may be two to four
million people you said most of them are in the United States must remain United States. Many of them are also China Celsius, four million. It is possible that one percent of maybe we have less yes, maybe half a percent yeah, something like that, that's interesting, that's a lot, but what is happening is its doubling every year in terms of transaction volume. Transaction amounts. Number of everything is done every year, and that's that's the kind of characteristic curve you see and disruptive technologies being adopted and that's a very promising curve. What is the tipping point? what needs to happen? Is there anything in these happen fort for widespread adoption? You ve got to meet it. It's gotta be ready and it's gotta be easy to use and so right now. It's not easy to use its! Not Eddie from its in many parts of the developed world, we don't really need it, in order to make it
thing, we need either what already have, has not work so well. This is what's happening lolloping world, where you have banking crisis which drives people into a safe haven or you invent applications that couldn't be done before or self driving car that you pay by the mile, automatically as your driving along a micro payments industry for paying for content directly. The internet of things. Where devices can buy? services on automatically things that you can do with credit cards. I think, if you start applications like that emerge and I'm very confident they're coming because with seeing the innovation behind them, then you can make. Something that is more needed even in the developed world. So what? What do you think could be done to sort of further? This along or to accelerate this is there anything that can be done.
As I said, I think the third ingredient is making it easier for people to use it as a matter of innovation, a maturing we're doing that. I mean that's already happening other than that is just a matter of time. We just have to wait and be patient until that happens, what could be like the steps that can be taken to make something like Bitcoin easier to use, while this, a of things to do user and faces design security, making, backup, pc, providing infrastructure, server, this exchanges. Or pay check your atm Services, your debit card services, merchant services, things like that you're. One of the examples I like to use is: I got on the internet and nineteen eighty nine. I thereafter my first thousand Shirley thereafter about nineteen ninety and in order to send my first Email I had to have unit command line skills, a log in into a unix mainframe with tax,
To an internet connection at an academic institution, and then I worked very hard for about two days to get the software working and then eventually, I sent an email that it took a couple of days to cross the internet right and then almost Zactly. Twenty years later, my mom went swipe ended this, something on her Ipad. So when you take, you know two days of piling software writing complex, Unix commands sending an email and takes a while to get across the internet, and then, twenty years later that's down to swipe where we can take the coin from, after install a wallet, understand what it is, the key to our code of the Bitcoin address, and how do I back it up and secured, etc, and you turn that into swipe then will be ready, but there is there a vast difference so between something like email, which is not just a disruptive technology but a completely new innovation,
the ability to send things wirelessly through the air or even wired like electronic mail did not exist. But but mayoral sitting right, but male did Armenia's mail and change in the medium, essentially you're doing correspondence, but it's so much, easier and more convenient, whereas using a credit card right now as early convenient forgetful on my banking, fairly convenient for people who have credit card Leah, so that and now that's who that's where the numbers really benefit. Bed quaint, because we're wherein the age of the internet and instead of economic conclusion becoming crater. Instead of more people around the world, having ready access to these technologies were seen, entire countries getting cut off from economic inclusion by King system is not expanding as fast to reach these pop.
Relations and there's this vast gap left and this gap is several billion people and an end to that gap. You can fit anyone who has access to even rudimentary feature phone or smartphone with a very basic level of data service, so the level at which you need to have technology in order to for someone to adopt Bitcoin end immediately become in themselves a global bank in the back pocket of their pants compared to the Have all that you would need to reach a before Jamie, more chase built a branch with it there area and offer them services after going through a very careful over, creation of their identity and blah blah blah Bob has never gonna happen, so we're gonna get to leapfrogging effect just
like in many places in Africa. The first leapfrog an event we saw. There was no to the bon ton. People wrote books about. This is the fact that in many places and a half landlines were never deployed because the difficulty to act the extend landslides was so high that Cell phones came along at some point. It became easier to just go directly to cell phones and bypass an entire generation of technology right. So, We are expecting- and I certainly see it as very possible- to see leapfrogging in economic inclusion, the ability for people to join internet of money long before they ever see a bank. The end result. Is it's not just about banking, the on bank? It's about de banking. All of us He is an application, you don't need an institution, you just need application and that the transition is pretty power.
Is there any concern? The people would take people's phones and hold my gun pointed to steal all their bitcoin hook. If that's all you own give you have a wallet that, while it is all you own, if you're on Bitcoin twenty years from now, whatever it is, and that's your entire financial portfolio existing your phone and someone can come along and force you gunpoint to transfer that over their fallen and they take off in the night. Yeah well, first, all already today, you wouldn't keep your entire financial, Porthos on your phone. I certainly don't. There are a number of very convenient and easy to use. Devices that allow you to storage or Beckley securely on an offline device. I have a couple of my bag. Am I shouldn t later, which, which light you might but you might I mean if you want to talk to you now you might just ok. I see three said it, so it was so teasing me.
This for people at home, there listen and ass. You like our nor to make this. I don't I don't want to get wrapped up in the headphones ordered and what was that so This is a device that a lot of people and pick a corner familiar with. Can we see that yeah? So this is called the Bitcoin treasure? The least I want those things all Ladys press when they fall down. Yes, I followed. Can't you! Yes, it's a bit different. So this is a usb device. I can connect. That's my computer Tennessee, yes least, who have only money. Now software you don't I want my money, you have got it so I have a I up of that device and this is where it what I mentioned before is this one thousand two hundred and twenty four word backup that I have, which means that if I lose that device, I can recreate it on my backup device,
jump carrying here already. Second one. Second, let's have for these and you can transfer that twenty forward seed. When he device you want, and it will immediately have access to all of your money render this no, yes well, I mean it would render this one now because it can coexist on all of them, but that one has pin number Anna passphrase that you have to put in. You would not be able to break into a device high could yeah. Maybe most people can good at that should do yeah excellent. But is it possible that someone could figure out a way to crack you're twenty forward code? Now I mean no, now you say there, man don't say that I say that Vulcan hackers man they take. That should, as a challenge well never say, can hack me, here's the thing Bitcoin in itself is the world's largest bug bounty, and this is something that most people haven't realized by county. A bug bow
t is when a manufacturer of a piece of software, for example, put out a bunting bounty and says I'll, give you ten. Thousand dollars. If you find a bug in my software that someone could exploit to break my software, not pull does bug bounties Google does bug bounties a lot of companies. Do these bug bounties very wise, and it's great does what they do. Is that way they they find these? They have professional packers. Who go in and break the software and its legal, they do It was nice yeah, but another way, look at this is the Bitcoin has ten to twelve billion dollars of market capitalization behind it, and if you can find a way to break same line, many forward seed. You have access to my money. So my money is the bounty, that's it behind that bug and this means that Bitcoin is being tested and has been tested every single day of its seven year, existence with an ever increasing chalk bought at the end of it, which is why you see bitcoin exchanges when they don't do
security, they get hacked and whoever Hacks them gets the bounty but Bitcoin itself, which has the biggest bounty of them. All. Remains secure, The recent remains secure is not magical. It's about spreading out the risk in such a way that there is no single point. You can put your thumb on an attack so anyway, this old device these types of devices there are ones that have a fingerprint scanner on them that are easy to use their there, in various form factors. We call these hardware wallets and what's interesting about this- is that the Bitcoin keys that control my Bitcoin, our creed but on this device they remain on this device and this device signs transactions, which means I can take it, and I can plug it into this laptop, and if this laptop is compromised, I dont care. It will not be able to compromise this. I can take this
and I can plug in to the you- know those desktops they have and hotel lobbies where you can printer boarding pass. Ok, consider that these cesspool of computing. You you go there. That thing has Twenty five different fires is fighting for dominance right when you plug ins device, they start tearing each other part trying to get to your advice. I can plug this in there and make a big one as action, and not have to worry about that, because the keys stay on here right and no one can fix. Virus from those. Well, that's the thing This is designed specifically to have a very, very narrow, well defined interface. So the only thing you can send to it is a bit quaint transaction event, place up a queen transaction on the screen. I can decide is not who I actually wanted to paint yes confirm, and then I've paid and nobody else is it impossible to integrate a virus into a bitcoin transaction.
Code. Messages in certain software like yet was what Al Qaeda was doing. There are sending pictures inside the actual digital image that one and zeros. There were encoding, actual information you could read and you can embed data There are different size. You can't execute that data consisting will not execute the data receives in the transaction. It simply runs a fingerprint function on it and signs it. So yes, The point of this is that Jimmy's incredulous yeah seems like it's your sending a rule that costs can be broken in a month like candy today by next week we figure it out now work. While I e knife
this device. Now for three years, this one of the first additions. Can I keep my bitcoin on there and I haven't had a problem, yet I don't put my money on exchanges. I keep it on devices like this, which is why I haven't had no money stolen. The point of this is not to make it more secure, although it does its to make security easy for someone who's, not technical. I could create a whole elaborate system as such the experts to secure my bitcoins. I was never problem the point of this devices that you can secure your bitcoin. My mom can secure her bitcoin with really knowing how, but just simply following how this works. So it takes security, package's, attended device and simplifies it dramatically. That kind of thing here is the other question. You asked me: what happens if someone points a gun at you right, we called out the fire,
dollar wrench solution slide. Show we build a ten thousand super. It's from a cartoon by I Randal Monroe Annex K, C d sister we build. Ten thousand supercomputers crack his ex encryption, no here's a file have dollar rights just beat him until he tells you what the password is. So resistance. That is difficult, but one of the things that these devices haven't and other systems and bickering have is duress passwords so Oh, you can put a small amount back when, in a specific account that opens with a different password and so should serve the people now, Sudan, mother fucker. You gave me the direct password now, but they don't know which one is which and this is a well known technique and we actually recommence using that as part of listen. When I go to a country where security is into good right, I carry my
cash in a money belt or leave it back at the hotel in a safe but I also carry a bundle of notes, high value notes, like the equivalent of say fifty dollars here in the United States in my front pocket and if somebody at me, pulls out a knife and says: give me your money. I will hand but my phone, away cash. I haven't my front pockets and I will walk away from that. Listen and his podcast. They notice mother fucker. As about that's real looters there you go. That's it so I mean this is something a lot of people do right, yeah, I'm sure, and that's why robbers or wherever it yeah, but for the most part, they'll take the casually hand them and runaway probably yeah I can't help thinking, although these little devices that you're storing you Bitcoin on looked elegant thousand sixteen. I cannot help thinking that there is going to be like that. Gordon Gecko Giant, brick phones when his walk or on the beach. Looking like a pimp from Wall Street.
That movie that they are that he's holding that big ass brain of ours ass? They are that Who will be watching the show a decade, for now laughing at those laughing at those things, and that's fine, because guess what I just found a photo yesterday was looking through. So my files, I just found a photo mate. Yes, thank you. We'll get him like a pamphlet that big stupid phone, I found a photo of me on the page nineteen ninety one with a leather side carrier with one of those in that holster right, one of the brick. Phones is, I think, the second generation Motorola till his about this big document ruin your hip. I call that weight yeah I was I was I was. The sophomore in college is like nineteen ninety one first offensive just come out to make computer science I'm a geek, I love gadgets, so I go by one of the first cell phones cost me an arm and a leg I paid like
five dollars a minute to make calls on issues like two thousand dollars. I think I paid something like seven hundred and fifty pounds sterling at the tires Prodi about a thousand bucks for a thing like this: this, whose battery lasted an hour the batteries are so terrible. Got a fantastic photo of me with a leather holster within strategy. My side would have a zero cool place it. No, I don't have it with you don't want it. We have a physical photo somewhere. I actually found the fiscal. What I am digitizing yet, when you do, please send it my way I will absolutely was straight up on Instagram also have puffy hair in the front, and I'm wearing a ridiculous shirt is european. Ninety. Ninety one euro straight Nineteenth century pathology, yeah that an answer so It will look ridiculous, but the point that you make so Oh is that we did go from Gordon Gecko too,
Then take this five right ends and we're going to do that again in bitcoin technology. This isn't something that standing still the amount of innovation that's happening today, even though its not mainstreamed yet is staggering. I work in the space full time all right We read about what is new in bed coin and that's a full time job. How many people there like you? Are you the only one life? No, no, absolutely not the only one who's this integrated absolutely not there's a bunch of people like you, Heather, there's, probably about a thousand people like you who are doing this, who are living off Bitcoin, constantly investigating bid corn reading about earlier time lecture. In writing books about their wild. Not so many lecturing and writing books about it towards speaking at conferences, but there's hung a hundred to two hundred were doing that to yes hundred two hundred yeah
You should talk the other hundred, ninety nine. Maybe they make better guests, you're crazy, bury you know I did theirs. I am claiming any special mantle here. There's lots of people who are very much into it since I am- and it is a full time job and because so much is happening. So yes, you're right, these devices will seem antiquated, this shows, however, is that won't. When I came on the show the first time I think about three years ago, I didn't yet have one of the Yes and I use the store, my Bitcoin boats called a paper wallet which is basically where I printouts additional keys with a convoluted process to make sure my computer that's doing for printing, isn't com for my schools and our compromise and then send the money to those digital keys and then put those in a voice. In a safe deposit box and in a safe, and that worked great for years. I kept a small amount of bickering safe. That way problem is that it took
lot of expertise to execute on that, and there are many ways to get it wrong, so we ve progress now the way you back this up, as you write down twenty four english words like: how hard is that it chose to you one a time on the screen and it tells you write them down a runs software and a website which has really three or four buttons its fairly easy to use. The device itself has to buttons. I could probably teach my mom how to use this and she owns Bitcoin. So that would be useful but an chills one of these. But it's will not ready she probably use and when you around yeah now she does Use at Andrews is coming over get out my wool goofy fuckin bitcoin thing when we pretend I uses for she wouldn't humor me that way. No no. So The bottom line is that, five years from now this is going
even simpler, and we keep iterating and maturing of technology. It's not standing still and ass, That's easier and easier. More people come on board. Not only that you able to use Bitcoin and other crypto currencies, but they're able to do it with security in that doesn't require enormous amounts of expertise. This is the same. This happened with the internet. I remember this has to show you see and ninety ninety foreign they ve got good morning, America and there's this clip from the outtakes they're doing before they're doing this big internet story. And they have the hosts channing amongst themselves before they start story and one of them saying. So what is the end? That is that the email? No no, no, no, that's just email. So the sign is the internet no known on the outside his email. It's the W W W. That's that's internet ends. Dot com- that's internet
and it's going through this process, where they're trying to grass this alien and strange seeming technology and all of the terminal. She is weird, let's play this as host that tease with the aid and then the ring around at. So that's what I said Kay said she thought it was about but I've never heard around. I've never heard any more, but never said that in itself stupid what I said and violence at NBC hurry around here about the lunchroom issue. There is violence, NBC G com, I mean and should now what are you saying out anyway That is that massive consumer. I was the one that's becoming really big. Now. What do you mean that
we're. How does one it nobody what're you white toward like male now, a lot of people use it and communicate it. I guess they can communicate with NBC writers and producers Alison. Can you explain why That is all I can say nothing intensely. Consumer policy will be in the studio shortly. What are known as the new joint review try and tell us what this once I can look at the data males eyes: it's it's it's worth is re ones it several university. Right and others can. Access rights is getting bigger, just even really handy during the quite a lot of people, that's how they work communicating out to tell family muslins. They were ok, because all the phone lines were down our swords. Did you ever you don't know that, for you, dont need a phone lines operating So he shows us if you show this to millennial right now, they're like ah ninety four that was just before the civil war ray,
this is eighty, isn't eighteen. Ninety four slavery was legal right. They have usually enable back them. Secondly, can't even conceive of a time when the internet was just so completely impact simple to understand. I feel very fortunate that I grew up without it and got to experience it my twenties right then I experienced it emerge and ours. What is this, but it didn't have the same sort of impact on my life that it has on the lives of young people today that are growing up with it were right. There I mean you will get kids today, you gotta store or go to them all or something down a restaurant they're fucking glue to their phone there. Glued yeah here comes the predict, this generation, which is growing up right now, they'd. Never no world without internet. They so never know world without Bitcoin humped area. Now fifty into eighteen years from now. None of them are gonna, get a driver's license because-
we'll be no self driving cars. I need one I wouldn't know, is having a fuckin montana. Where could drive my own goddamn car, ailing man, hobby hobby? It will be a hobby we'll pay three thousand dollars a month and insurance to drive your car. How much I think you'll see that's what I'm gonna go come on. I don't know humans behind the wheel, grandpa that salaries eight thousand dollars a month. Didn't you you get me telling your grandchildren, we were used to drive our own cars and say that sounds crazy. Did hundreds of thousands of people die every year, yeah yeah We live like men. S lived second as digital deck, like all these other pussies out their yeah. There you go. Think about it. This way, imagine a child born today that never sees cash. I mean unless they travel to another country where their backwards and they still use paper as money right now
entirely possible. So what seems inconceivable to us then becomes the norm then becomes inconceivable to live without it right and then you're trying to explain you know so walk consensus. Algorithm. Did the Federal Reserve Use o it use the twelve white dude decide for you? consensus was is, and what is a proof of work algorithm? No, no Johnny was a proof of war, all girth, backed by oil. I am happy, you exist. Of having you on the show. I love Talkin to I love the fact that you have this beautiful vision of digital currency, and if you were in your correct and in all pans out, I think it's gonna be amazing. I'd I'd love that know so much about I loved you come on here and educators. I love that every time
come on. The really does seem to be more and more progress. It is the tangible, its track. It's interesting at fascinating I'm all in my team Bitcoin among hundred percent committed. I really was a happen, but just one of those things. Biologists entirely fascinating and until it absolutely is here like credit cards like the car, like all the other things you are describing, that really didn't exist before and now exist. Almost primarily I think it's it's absolutely amazing and fascinating and again. In a lot of ways: it's a solution for the control that the federal government, the Federal Reserve, the banks and even politicians have over us today that condemn control is slowly being eroded by the internet, not even slowly pretty rapidly being rode by the even whenever control.
Politicians used to have its not nearly as is nearly is easy to hide its so much more transparent. It's so much easier to protest today it is a different realm, we're living in a different world and that world happening incredibly rapidly from I got out and ninety ninety four you are on before then, when it was like this really fragile, strange internet you were in the early days of really fascinated see what is going to be like twenty years. And I really do up your right. Well, that's one of the beautiful Things about this is, I think, if you ve experienced things like this before and will vary, lucky to be part of a generation where we have advancements in technology happening at a rate Where you don't you see one or two. But you see several in a lifetime right that are for earth shattering in their complexity and involvement. We ve seen the internet
seen social media. We seen the miniaturization of computers now we're going to see self driving cars, and did you currencies and all of these other things in a single lifetime. Once you ve seen two or three of these, you start capturing the pattern. And the pattern is when it starts. Everybody ignores it makes fun of it can't possibly see, how change would happen right and this happened with the automobile. It happened with electricity, it happened with credit cards the first time credit cards were introduced, no he thought they were gonna work is a crazy, stupid experiments. Nobody wanted to take them. This happens with every type of technology, its ridiculed at first and then gradually It matures it gets less cumbersome to use.
If it has some some fundamental properties utility something it's useful for that's different, it's knew that you can do things with it. You couldn't do before then at some point. It hits and inflection Point and it becomes mainstream very very rapidly, and then everybody is both surprised and the same time, claims ownership and say what I always thought that this bitcoin thing would succeed. Well, let's hope, where those people this book available right now. The amount of money. Where can people get a than some funky exchange in some dark web corner of the world. Where did you get this? Yes, so this is available on an obscure site. Called Amazon thought that fuckin one? Yes, it's it's also available. It's going to book booksellers world and I was on worldwide it's available on Kindle kinda one limited kinda lending library. If you buy the prince, you get the Kindle version for free it's available for sale for Bitcoin.
And its outcome. Finally does know many pictures and what's up with it, does not have any pictures in it. I have a give away four or five copies of the Kindle Edition in five copies of the print addition, people don't have to purchase anything they sign up, they follow me on Twitter and they have a one in a hundred chance of winning a free book. So if they want to try, that's Jamie here has the links may be they can go in the show, notes and people can trying. Thank you, but as there is something you did say over the air, the current beyond their up at an emphasis on you too info on you too. Ok, folks. Thank you very much Andreas. It's always a pleasure to talk to you. I hope you write a really do and the internet of money is available, right now? Yes, right now, I have the number one you fucks right here, in my greasy hands. Thank sir, we pleasure thanks for having me thank you, everybody for
it's a gas and thank you to cave man, coffee, I'm drinking, Caveman, Coffee Nightrobe. I think you might have today, but it didn't clear my throat. Ladies and gentlemen, I know that just annoying to you and because of that, sworn off our coffee, except for K band nature, I did have some the middle, but my throat is already warmed up things like when I start talking like when I just start talking, ash like sit down come here. The jam or whatever and am now my mom voices and totally heated up and Warmed up. Does that make sense, then that butter? coffee just sort of coats, the inside of my mouth and I too much not a problem with came across coffee nature. Plus you just get jacked on this stuff to earn seventy milligrams, caffeine, caveman coffees is excellent. Delicious a single source, single family, single origin, Caveman coffee seo dotcom go their use,
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Word Rogan go to tracking stocks, that's draft kings, dotcom draft kings, dot com and use a code word rogue into play for free, elegy ability, restrictions may apply, see website for details. That's it goddamn way, John Lot coming up lots of stuff, but I am again October twenty first, my Netflix Special Meares. Next week, star, studded lineup. Ladies and gentlemen, we have Wayne, Bang Ludwig with boss, root in and T J the sharp altogether on one podcast the fucking. Emma universe may explode and we'll be re. Capping and going over I'm sure this weekend's, you have seen
heavyweight championship which will be off the fuckin charts. That's excuse me, yeah October, ten September, tenth fucking David cept. Amber tenth, which is two days from tomorrow. That's where we're put three days from today bang Ludwig again and ass Rudin Anti J D, Russia, altogether ass, three fuckin shit, peons on Monday, Michael Shermer returns on Wednesday, the fourteenth and dance Carlin from hard core history, perhaps my time, favorite podcast? He will be here on September, fifteenth, which is Thursday, oh yeah bitches. I got a lot more common to wait.
So enjoy. Thank you so much for tuna and predate the fuck out of you guys enjoy your weekend. Enjoy your life, enjoy your family and friends, you loved loved ones and why I just live thing love. You buy.
Transcript generated on 2020-03-13.